Her poor son is probably rolling in his grave listening to her crap.

RE: December 22, 2004 |6:48 p.m. ET (12-23-04)
Challenges and the challenged (Keith Olbermann) BLOGGERMANN

SECURE MENTAL INSTITUTION FOR SNARKS-----LOCATION/ Q CLEARANCE

I will never have the ability to expose KO's full blown wing nut status more than he does himself. In fact Dec. 22 post (BLOGGERMANN) proves my case. For those of you who are still inclined to give him any benefit of logic or balance, please read the blog, it will erase your doubts.

Maybe we should start another blog:
Hardball Watch

Says "Hoochee":

"Her poor son is probably rolling in his grave listening to her crap."

Have you no sense of compassion or decency? This is as mean and malicious a barb as I've seen posted here, or anywhere. Now, perhaps I lead a sheltered life. Thank God for small favors!

Your comment is simply despicable, regardless of party affiliation. I feel like taking a shower.

Paul S.

Niederer's son is the military and they are largely pro-war and pro-Bush so Hoochie puts out an assumption that he/she shouldn't make.

On the other hand, you make political judgements about the actions and the motivations of Republican politicians that are entirely debatable and just as subjective and pronounce us "the party of liars" and make other blanket statements about people on the right who comment on this blog.

What's the difference, my friend? You may give nod to the importance of civility and rational thinking but you often sound like the people you are taking to task.

We agree on Hoochie. Regardless of her frame of reference, I find her statement apalling.

"Party of liars"? I don't recall writing that, but if I did, I apologize. I try not to generalize. I may have been guilty of that in some of my earlier posts but y'all taught me quickly that doesn't fly here (and you're right, it shouldn't).

I do make an effort to be civil, really. Re-read my posts if you must. I'm no saint, but I do try to respect the opinions of others and I don't call people names, I just don't. If I did, I could come up with some real doosies, as do some of you!

Indeed, my assumptions are subjective and debatable. I admit to being liberal, and in fact am proud to be. I'm also weary of Bush's public, documented lies. I'm not naive enough to think it odd that a politician lies...they all do, as do most of us. Anyone who says they don't lie is contradicting him or herself. I do my best not to, however, and would like our leaders to do the same. I'm old enough to have lived through many administrations and to me, Bush's untruths are unprecedented--at least in their sheer VOLUME. Even so, I don't feel that yours is the "party of liars" although I honestly don't get how you believe him. That truly baffles me. Sorry.

I'm disappointed that in your eyes, I've failed to distinguish myself from others who resort to mudslinging on this blog. Guess I'll have to try harder.

I do appreciate many of your posts. You appear to be among the more fair-minded of those who oppose me here.

God bless,

I second the motion Cecelia, .......and in addition I like to suggest to Paul S.>>> Throw away the looking glass you are currently using and invest in an expensive-high-quality-mirror (call NASA or Sandia Labs) that will reflect the flaws that you imagine in everyone else, back "AT YA."

If you feel you must ridicule me, so be it. I don't mean to represent myself as being any better or any worse than anyone who posts here. My response to Hoochie was as confrontational as I've gotten and is tame compared with others who post here. (Sorry, Hoochie--but what you said really got to me).

Can you explain to me why you feel we can't respect one another? BTW, Rubin-any reaction to the abortion stats I sent?

Thanks,

Paul>>>> Yes, the stats you referenced aren't complete(I seen em before). BUT this is not the forum for that topic, It should be done elsewhere (E-mails?) perhaps.

Rubin,

You brought it up--I was just trying to follow through. I sent you an e-mail earlier today. Did you receive it? I'll be happy to respond once I get your reaction.

Paul S.,

Did you read the quotes attributed to Susan Niederer? I have no doubt that most military people would be appalled to think any of their relatives would make such an inflamatory comment. I'm sorry the woman is grieving. However, she needs serious help. She is not coping well. If her family cared at all about her they would keep her from making public comments until she comes to grips with reality.

LB, I see your points and appreciate your reasoned response. Yes, I’ve read Susan Niederer’s remarks.

She obviously suffers deeply. Like you, I'm sorry that she grieves. I've never lost a son. I have two, both military age and the mere thought of losing one of them gives me a shudder.

I'm not a grief counselor. I know no one in the military I can ask to get their reactions to Ms. Niederer’s public statements. I don't feel qualified to determine how well she's coping. Nor am I comfortable speculating on the depth of her family's feelings for her--I know none of them--or what might constitute appropriate behavior if they in fact, care deeply about her.

We all handle grief differently. You may be on target across the board on this but I just don't feel qualified to judge her.

Thanks,

Paul,

The point is that one can certainly feel qualified enough to judge her enough to say that it's pretty dishonest for any news program to suggest that the autopen issue was the impetus of her rage or that her's are the average feelings of grieving family members.

She's a complete idiot. case closed. you wanna kiss her ass, get a cable news show and have her on. otherwise, shut up.

I repeat, I don't know her or her family. It's simply not my part to judge her; while I could, I choose not to. If it makes you feel happy to do so, be my guest.

Merry Christmas!

She voiced a desire to torture and kill the president after the death of her son. I'm sure many families mourning their military dead feel anger and grief. But they don't mouth off to a camera like that.

If you can't make the commonsensical judgement that she is out the ordinary and not representative, then why did you have no problem chastising Hoochee for a little screed on an blog board?

Thanks for your well wishes, Paul and merry Christmas to you too.

Santa does not like hypocrites. Looks like Paul will be getting coal for Christmas.

As I said before, I have two sons, both of military age. I love them both deeply. I pretty much helped raise our former neighbor's son, who recently enlisted in the Marines. He's an absolutely GREAT kid that I've loved for well over a decade and he's become a handsome young man. The recruiter told him that only 4% of the Marine recruits go to Iraq and he believed them...4%!

I don't know Ms. Niederer. I've not walked in her shoes and from what I've seen of her public pain hope I never must. I do understand, however, how she could blame George Bush--at least in part--for her loss. Not that she's JUSTIFIED in doing so, but rather that someone in such profound agony may seek to assign blame for such an otherwise irreconcilable tragedy.

I sound like a warped LP... I can't judge Ms. Niederer. Sorry, I just can't. We all grieve differently. A quote comes to mind, from the 2000 film "O Brother, Where Art Thou?� "It's a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart."

Many of us lost family in Vietnam, to learn only that the dead are gone forever and our grief can last just as long. I'm ill prepared to speculate on the affect Niederer's remarks may have on others who've suffered similar loss through George W. Bush's foreign policies. I don't have data--but I may have some soon.

I scolded hoochie because her lack of compassion and name-calling offended me. I realize that my doing so was wrong. It was a gut-level reaction, one that I regret. I'm sorry, hoochee. My apology, however, doesn't mitigate my reaction to her scalding comments; rather, I acknowledge it was wrong of me to confront her as I did. I do hope she accepts my apology.

I suspect that to expect either of you accept my logic is futile and I'm at peace with that. Can we move on?

God bless.

As I said before, I have two sons, both of military age. I love them both deeply. I pretty much helped raise our former neighbor's son, who recently enlisted in the Marines. He's an absolutely GREAT kid that I've loved for well over a decade and he's become a handsome young man. The recruiter told him that only 4% of the Marine recruits go to Iraq and he believed them...4%!

I don't know Ms. Niederer. I've not walked in her shoes and from what I've seen of her public pain hope I never must. I do understand, however, how she could blame George Bush--at least in part--for her loss. Not that she's JUSTIFIED in doing so, but rather that someone in such profound agony may seek to assign blame for such an otherwise irreconcilable tragedy.

I sound like a warped LP... I can't judge Ms. Niederer. Sorry, I just can't. We all grieve differently. A quote comes to mind, from the 2000 film "O Brother, Where Art Thou?� "It's a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart."

Many of us lost family in Vietnam, to learn only that the dead are gone forever and our grief can last just as long. I'm ill prepared to speculate on the affect Niederer's remarks may have on others who've suffered similar loss through George W. Bush's foreign policies. I don't have data--but I may have some soon.

I scolded hoochie because her lack of compassion and name-calling offended me. I realize that my doing so was wrong. It was a gut-level reaction, one that I regret. I'm sorry, hoochee. My apology, however, doesn't mitigate my reaction to her scalding comments; rather, I acknowledge it was wrong of me to confront her as I did. I do hope she accepts my apology.

I suspect that to expect either of you accept my logic is futile and I'm at peace with that. Can we move on?

God bless.

Paul,

I have a daughter in the Air Force. I am personally am acquainted with families who have lost loved ones in Iraq and Afghanistan. So let's jump right over the emotional appeal you are making based on your paternal status.

No one is asking you to validate or make invalid Niederer's feelings of grief.

You're just being asked to judge whether getting in front of a camera and threatening the president is typical of grieving military families. And whether the report (quoted below) of the autopen incident (which occured long after Niederer's statement and offical war protester status) was accurate in it's portrayal of Niederer and the autopen incident.

"grieving mother's anguish over the loss of her son in Iraq suddenly turns to anger when she learns Donald Rumsfeld's condolence letter was actually signed by a machine."

Nope. She was trotted out to the camera for the autopen story because she was well known in the media for being someone who had lost a son and who would be UNIQUELY ....vocal... in her dislike for the war and Rumsfeld.

It's an obvious judgement to make, Paul, so quit trying to make this issue as concrete as possible by pretending this is about the quality of Niederer's grief.

You asked us to be the judge of the fair-mindedness of your statements. The problem is that we have.

Your logic is sound and your appeal well-crafted. I twice aplogized for my harsh words to hoochie.

Niederer's public statements may be every bit as manipulative and politically motivated as Kerry's Ohio duck hunt, but I know not what's in her heart. If you think me unfair because I refuse to render judgement on Niederer, I'll never be able to dissuade you. God bless you and your daughter for your contributions and her willingness to defend us. I pray that she remains safe.

If you care to disgree that's fine but the point of the post was promo for Hardball.

I have no issue with the woman at all including her intemperate remarks to a journalism student at Northwestern that brought the Secret Service to her door or her arrest at a Laura Bush appearance in New Jersey.

The fact is that, once again, the MSM is caught red-handed, making an utterly bogus claim. The woman was arrested at a Bush campaign event, visited by Secret Service agents and put on the government watchlist long before she or anyone else had heard the Rumsfeld auto-pen story.

This is SOP for the MSM and they ought to be called on it.

NOTE: Over at The National Debate. I had the first interview with the author of the Countpunch artcle where Ms. N. made her remarks and the reporter had no sense that Ms. N. was doing anything other than venting.

Paul appologized for being a dope, and so it is written in the blog of record. As for the MSM, they disgust even a hoochee!

Bob, are you crazy?

"Apology" has just one "p," hooch.

All the best.

who cares about sppellling? i just wanna be right!

Tragic.