George W Bush's memory may rival Nixon's.

Other than its employment as a pejorative or as an attempted guilt by association, this analogy makes absolutely zero sense - historically or otherwise.

Nixon was guilty of many things but he was never known - or accused of having - a faulty memory.

If one wished to select a modern or more recent president who had a, let us say, incomplete memory, one could easily cite Mr. Clinton's repeated "I do not recall" or "To the best of my knowledge, I can't remember" series of responses to questions asked during the Starr Investigation.

Hmm, I wonder why Olbermann couldn't recall that recent history? Faulty memories, indeed.

SMG

Somebody has to step up and edit together all the moments where Keith has contradicted himself. I bet it would look alot like this:

http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_video5.html

Following "oddball", Keith ventured into that hockey scandal again, bringing in Roger Cossack (of ESPN, formerly of CNN) to explain it all. Is A-Mess-NBC so short on legal analysts that KO had to recruit outside talent?

How many experts in sports law should a non-sports news network have on staff? Cossack's bio mentions that he works for Court TV as well, but since this was a sports story they chose to burnish his ESPN credentials instead.

Nixon was guilty of many things but he was never known - or accused of having - a faulty memory.

KO wasn't accusing Bush of having a faulty memory. He was saying that, based on the e-mails exchanged between Abramoff and Eisner offered up, that Bush has an excellent memory. It just that suddenly when the topic turns to Abramoff that Bush goes into "memory block" mode.

I don't catch every show but, Richard Wolffe? When was the last time Olby's buddy Howard Fineman was on? I'm deeply concered. Should we start printing up milk cartons?

With everything he tried to throw at us at one time ( Is desperation setting in? ) I was expecting the kitchen sink to come flying over the desk insted of those papers!

If this show was a sport they would have called the mercy rule on it by now. I think I'm starting to feel sorry for this guy..........na

And it happened again on Hardball. Scarborough, Cosby, and Carlson....But no KO?

The Media Matters moment? Well I guess everybody at M.M. wanted to catch an early flight over to Turin.

Everybody have a good weekend, and Jill,Dopey,Trexie,Trikie,kmfdmxyz remember. Watch what you order from Dommino's.....well be listening.....and laughing!

KO wasn't accusing Bush of having a faulty memory. He was saying that, based on the e-mails exchanged between Abramoff and Eisner offered up, that Bush has an excellent memory

Yes, thanks, I got KO's not-so-sly suggestion.

Faulty memory = lying.

Again the analogy is historically sloppy. Viz., Nixon did not use the "I don't remember" defense or excuse when asked about his knowledge of the break-in or coverup. He openly and explicitly lied about his knowledge of those matters.

But then, of course, KO is more interested in posing as an intrepid journalist protecting the public from a nefarious government than he is interested in providing substantive news.

Nice gig, I guess. It you can pull it off.

SMG

First, I think Bush should search for, find and release all photos of him shaking Abramoff's hand at functions where he shook 15,000 hands. Then, I think he should tell everyone he sort of remembers this gut who showed up at functions and shook his hand. That way the liberal media can slime him and really attack.

Then I think the media should ignore the huge sums of money Harry Reid received from Abramoff via his clients, and they should DEFINITELY ignore the fact that Reid's people hung out with Abramoff's people and got plane rides and stuff. Then they should ABSOLUTELY ignore the fact that Reid stepped in on legislation on Abramoff's client's behalf after getting money. After all, this is a REPUBLICAN scandal because Jack was a REPUBLICAN first and a lobbyist who greased 44 Senate Democrat coffers last.

Hypocrisy is soooo cool!

I wonder if anyone posting here is a member of the Countdown staff trying to save his or her job by defending Keith?

Then I think the media should ignore the huge sums of money Harry Reid received from Abramoff via his clients,

First, $68,000 is "a huge sum of money" now? By comparison, Rep. John Doolittle (R-CA) got $14,000 from Abramoff himself and $140,000 from Abramoff clients. Second, no one has made that critical link: that Abramoff funneled the money (which is highly doubtful considering Abramoff is a rabid partisan).

and they should DEFINITELY ignore the fact that Reid's people hung out with Abramoff's people and got plane rides and stuff.

And just how do you draw that inference? I see his staff had normal business contacts with Abramoff staff. I don't see where that leads to this nonsense. He certainly didn't take Reid or Reid's staff for a round of golf in Scotland. So how about you tell me where your information comes from and I can draw my on conclusions.

Then they should ABSOLUTELY ignore the fact that Reid stepped in on legislation on Abramoff's client's behalf after getting money.

According to the records, four of the five "contacts" had to do with construction of Indian Casinos off-reservation. Now why would a NEVADA Senator want to stop casino growth? How about preventing job loss among his constitutents who work in NEVADA casinos. (By the by John Ensign, the other Senator from Nevada, also opposed the legislation. By your logic, does that mean he is also in Abramoff's pocket?) Reid has been against off-reservation casinos for years and it's been a major platform in his last two Senate campaigns.

As for the minimum wage bill, Reid was a co-sponsor of that legislation and spoke on the Senate floor in favor of its passage. There is no evidence that Reid tried to kill the bill or undermine it's provisions.

This is a transparent smear attempt to take Reid down because Reid's a powerful Democrat who rallies the Senate caucus.

Man Trekkie,

You can spin like a top.

Trekkie,

I realy want to believe Harry Reid is an innocent bystander. I really really do. In fact, I want to believe all Democrats are innocent in this. However, crazy right wing publications like the Washington Post keep confusing me with articles saying he is just as dirty as the people he attacks in the Republican party. I guess you can explain away these:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/09/AR2006020901208.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html

And this:

[QUOTE]"Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean said on Fox News Sunday that Democrats who took money from Indian tribes represented by lobbyist Jack Abramoff and who did something on behalf of those tribes have "a big problem." Dean made the statement probably before reading the Sunday edition of the Washington Post, which reports that Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid has done exactly that.

During the interview by Fox News Sunday's Chris Wallace, Dean continued his claim that Democrats who received money from Abramoff's Indian clients did no favors for those Indian tribes, according to NewsMax.

"Nobody got anything out of the Democrats from Jack Abramoff," the top Democrat insisted. "No Democrat delivered anything and there's no accusation and no investigation that any Democrat ever delivered anything to Jack Abramoff. And that's not true of the Republicans."

But Wallace wasn't buying it. He continued his questioning of Dean: "So if we find that there were some Democrats who wrote letters on behalf of some of the Indian tribes that Abramoff represented, then what do you say, sir?"Dean's response: "That's a big problem. And those Democrats are in trouble. And they should be in trouble."

Today's Washington Post reports that Senate Minority Leader Reid had accepted tens of thousands of dollars from an Abramoff client, the Coushatta Indian tribe, after interceding with Secretary of the Interior Gail Norton over a casino dispute with a rival tribe.

Reid "sent a letter to Norton on March 5, 2002," the Post said. "The next day, the Coushattas issued a $5,000 check to Reid's tax-exempt political group, the Searchlight Leadership Fund. A second tribe represented by Abramoff sent an additional $5,000 to Reid's group. Reid ultimately received more than $66,000 in Abramoff-related donations between 2001 and 2004."

Questioned about the donations in December by "Fox News Sunday's" Wallace, Senator Reid immediately turned testy. "Don't try to say I received money from Abramoff. I've never met the man, don't know anything," he claimed.[ENDQUOTE]

Keep spinning Trekkie -- it's good exercise.

This is funny:

Quote: "This is a transparent smear attempt to take Reid down because Reid's a powerful Democrat who rallies the Senate caucus."

Reid is a POWERFUL Democrat? That is about the silliest statement I have ever heard.

"Talk show hosts like Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and so many others act like they know all about war...These guys are nothing but WEAK SPINELESS COWARDS hiding behind microphones while soldiers come home and are losing everything they have." - Doug Barber

However, crazy right wing publications like the Washington Post keep confusing me with articles saying he is just as dirty as the people he attacks in the Republican party. I guess you can explain away these:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/09/AR2006020901208.html

Read the article. Note that the key lobbyist in the piece, Ron Platt, is never directly quoted. That's because the AP (the authors of the story) never contacted him to follow up. And there is no evidence that Reid ever tanked this, or any other, legislation at the behest of Abramoff clients.

Today's Washington Post reports that Senate Minority Leader Reid had accepted tens of thousands of dollars from an Abramoff client, the Coushatta Indian tribe, after interceding with Secretary of the Interior Gail Norton over a casino dispute with a rival tribe.

This old chestnut again? Reid was against this piece of legislation because it would have allowed for off-reservation construction of Indian casinos (something Reid first opposed in 1988). In fact, he took the Senate floor to vociferously argue against it:

"The legislation is fundamentally flawed because it allows Bay Mills to establish gaming facilities under the guise of settling a land claim.

The land claim is simply -- and everybody knows this -- an excuse to take land into trust for off-reservation gaming. I object." - Senator Reid's remarks regarding this matter, Congressional Record, November 19, 2002.

It's not spin. It's the truth, in the Senator's own words.

"Talk show hosts like Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and so many others act like they know all about war...These guys are nothing but WEAK SPINELESS COWARDS hiding behind microphones while soldiers come home and are losing everything they have." - Doug Barber

Obi-Wan, that quote has changed everything for me! I am totally anti-war now! Doug Barber has absolute moral authority. Forget my four years of service and my own opinions.

Trekkie, your excuses seem very strained to me. Any of the people who took money from Abramoff could make similar ones. So I guess you think this is a non-scandal then. Good.

"Talk show hosts like Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and so many others act like they know all about war...These guys are nothing but WEAK SPINELESS COWARDS hiding behind microphones while soldiers come home and are losing everything they have." - Doug Barber

So I guess you think this is a non-scandal then. Good.

No, I'm saying that Senator Reid cannot be shown to have peddled influence based on the public record and the evidence.

"Talk show hosts like Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and so many others act like they know all about war...These guys are nothing but WEAK SPINELESS COWARDS hiding behind microphones while soldiers come home and are losing everything they have." - Doug Barber

what's that Dopey? I couldn't read it the first time.

OK Trekkie,

From anyone else I would think your defense of Reid was a transparent attempt by a partisan to excuse a Senator for taking money for favors. However, your persuasive arguments and history of non-partisan behavior speak well of you. Also, I have been wary of the conservative bias of the Washington Post. They are always hunting for ways to take down prominent Democrats.

I do have a serious question for you Trek. What is your take on Ted Kennedy and Chappaquiddick?

What is your take on Ted Kennedy and Chappaquiddick?

I don't like Ted Kennedy, but since he'll keep winning his seat until the day he dies there's not much I can do about it.

As for Chappaquiddick, whatever happened there is now between him and whatever higher power he believes in.

"Talk show hosts like Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and so many others act like they know all about war...These guys are nothing but WEAK SPINELESS COWARDS hiding behind microphones while soldiers come home and are losing everything they have." - Doug Barber

Re: T. Kennedy

I asked what you think. Was it an innocent accident or something more?

Is anyone surprised that Obi-Wan, desperate for attention, has resorted to being a spammer?

Who is Doug Barber? Is he Dopey's shift manager at Burger-Barn?

He's a fallen American soldier who fought in Iraq. Any other questions?

Dopey,

You may be a four star General in the Moonbat Brigade, but that is meaningless in our military. As for this comment from this person, one comment does not an argument make.

OK Trekkie doesn't want to answer, so I'll ask Obi Wan:

Re: T. Kennedy

Was Chappaquiddick an innocent accident or something more?

A little about Mr. Barber and how he died:

"Yesterday afternoon Specialist Douglas Barber, an Operation Iraqi Freedom veteran, took his own life after struggling with the demons and nightmares of PTSD for over two years.

No one really knows what caused his sudden and deadly breakdown. Doug had been on the phone laughing and kidding around with one of his best friends about an hour before the incident. Several friends have said that Doug seemed to be in an upbeat and playful mood throughout the morning, and that he never mentioned any problems."

Certainly tragic.

Obi-Wan,

You don't seem to have any shame whatsoever.

How could you use this poor troubled man to make political points?

C --

I think we really don't want to determine the depths to which Obi Wan will sink to make a point. Certainly the "real" Obi Wan would not want his name used this way.

Let's see dopey posts up something about some guy who everybody in his circle knew was troubled, uses a reference this guy makes about talk show hosts AFTER THIS GUY TAKES HIS OWN LIFE! And then pulls out this fact AFTER THE FACT! Dopey and the rest of his bunch have this TROUBLE of taking tragic moments like this and having a WELLSTONE MOMENT!!

Dude why don't you just stick to trying to remember if the pickles should go on the bun or the burger. And stop useing people who have lost control for cheap gains.

Does this surprise me?...NO! look at all the DEAD PEOPLE that vote Democrat in big cites.

What a class group!

To the family of Mr.Barber, my condolences

To Dopey, meal breaks over!

spreading his message is a sin, but burying him under a carpet is what you call honor. pat yourselves on the back.

No, Obi-Wan, we don't call it honorable to refrain from using the words of a deeply troubled man as a means of firing at political opponents.

It's just the most basic sort of humanity.

denial is the basic sort of humanity unfortunately. he was deeply troubled because he was a soldier. there are thousands like him. that's the point. they're swept under the rug. he wanted to be heard.

You have no idea that there are "thousands like him". But certainly in every war that has ever been fought, there have been those who suffer post-traumatic stress disorder. Some to the point of resorting to suicide.

Unfortunately, too, these soldiers then become fodder for idiots like you, who want to use their tragedy to foster your own agenda.

Obi,

Why don't you grab your camera and anti-war placard and head out to Walter Reed with your Code Pink buddies? Maybe you can get a good shot of an amputee or make a proud vet cry.

Hey Obi, Trekkie

Any news on your views RE Teddy Kennedy and Chappaquiddick? Since you are quoting the dead, maybe a good Mary Jo quote would be useful here?

Chappaquiddick is your cryptonite. So is Robert Byrd's KKK past. The fact that neither of you can tell me whether you think Chappaquiddick was an innocent accident or more than that is incredibly telling.

when someone is suffering cognitive dissonance like cecilia, they can only call people names. it's sad that you dismiss the words of this solider, that you deny that there are thousands of veterans who do not support the war and think it hypocritical that those who have never seen combat and do not send their own children to fight are those most vocally for it. i'm not afraid to listen to these veterans.

Dopey Wan wrote: "i'm not afraid to listen to these veterans."

I'm sure you are not, Dopey, as they are dead. The live ones might give you trouble since they generally support the mission, are patriotic, and would think you are a fool.

Cecilia is horrified that you would take the words of a man with PTSD who eventually killed himself, then bandy those words about to make a (poor) point. I suppose if you love Sheehan, who would use her own son's death for political gain, you will do anything.

Every day that I happen to listen to Hannity's show during call in someone from the Armed-Forces will call in and give a general pro-war stance and say something about The left hurting the cause. Will Dopey post any pro statements from that show? Oh I forgot they are all still alive.

Wait Dopey, Mr. Barber said Hannity among other talk show hosts were spineless cowards. So does that make the Armed-Forces folks that call in with their pro-war stance spineless cowards too? Oh thats right we can't ask him. But I'm sure you have that response lying around somewhere.

Straight or Curly fries with you're meal? Thank you drive forward to the window.

I think Obi-Wan should start version of the Swiftboat vets.

Shell-shocked Veterans for Peace.

What is all this talk about political gain? Is it your excuse to ignore any data that doesn't jive with your perception?

If you are for the war, go fight it. you won't bother to even consider the words of these veterans when you proclaim yourselves "for the troops".

The words of A SINGLE veteran who had PTSD Dopey.

And yes, your data is "jive."

Take your time telling us your views about Teddy K and Chappaquiddick. You have all year.

notice how Dopey didn't wish to answer my question. Oh well must have had to clean up the parking lot after Burger World closed.

Pretty hilarious how people can take issue with someone sharing the opinion of a veteran because he's no longer alive yet have no trouble with an administration that has used 9-11 as the biggest political football in US history. 'Honoring the troops' is something the majority of posters on this site don't quite understand.

Also pretty funny how important Chappaquiddick is yet comparing Bush to Nixon is ridiculous.

Oh and Cecilia, those soldiers you speak of only become 'fodder' for people that care about their views and how they are being treated AFTER they are used as actual fodder for people like you to kill people they are too afraid to kill themselves.

In the coming years, as the US becomes the Republic of Gilead, you can certainly be proud of the country you have left to your children.

Szin,

Of course our military kills people on behalf of the rest of the country. Just what do you think is the nature of a military?

Surely you can argue a case against the war in Iraq without the nonsense of trotting out shell-shocked soldiers. Just how meaningful would an argument on such a basis be to you if Pat Buchanan offered shell-shocked WWII vets as a reason to have not fought Hitler?

And of course you have to end with the obligatory chicken-little prediction of future doom and gloom. Within every leftist soul is a sour little control-freak scold. Oh, you might want to paint the other side with imagery out of A Handmaiden's Tale, but it's you guys who are the religiousLY political zealots. It's you guys who wear the the white robes and stand on the street corners yelling "repent! the end is near..."

Get some perspective and for god's sake, get a better argument.

to compare iraq to WW2 is nothing less than retarded. in WW2, the enemy was a rapidly industrializing and aggressive nation. iraq was bombed into the stone age 15 years ago.

no one is trying to argue a case against the war. such a case does not need to be made. i wouldn't waste my breath. all that was being done was to shine a light on the hypocrisy of dismissing a veteran's words when claiming to be "for the troops". what is so threatening about acknowledging someone who has actually been there? this may sound harsh (because it is) but no wonder he committed suicide. no one would listen to him.

I wasn't comparing the Iraq War to WWII. I was saying that unfortunately every war has soldiers who suffer mental distress. For you to trot this guy out as some sort of special token, is cynical to say the least.

Of course, you're making a case against the war. That was the gist of this poor confused man's words. You want to take them and also make the case that anyone who is for the war ought to be over there fighting it with their own two hands.

Well, it's tragic and sad when a mentally disturbed soldier makes such a point. It's merely stupid when you do.

it amazes me how arrogant, shallow and condescending you are. the man's words were confused? get a grip.

We all know that all suicidal men are generally preoccupied with Fox news. Obi-wan and Trekkie are on the brink as well. So when a soldier with PTSD rails against Fox news then kills himself, the culprit is surely Fox news, Sean Hannity and the rest (except Alan Colms). Never mind the mental disorder behind the fleshy curtain!

As for Iraq, there are some WMD findings on WABC tonight, so Trekkie and Obi-Wan, you might want to keep your sets tuned to MSLSD or an infective dose of reality might spooge into your addled brains.

btw, cecilia, as you do every time you address me, you've put words into my mouth. no, i am not making a case against the war. please point me to a post where i say anything negative about the war. once again, you're swinging in the air against phantom straw-men of your own creation. congrats.

Oh poor baby. No one is more misunderstood than you, Obi-Wan. Unless it's Rodney Dangerfield. But wait... his thing was that he didn't get any respect and yours is ....well, nevermind...

I think the grease from the fryer is getting to Dopey.

you "support the troops" as long as you don't have to listen to them. how pathetic.

OK Obi -- you "listen to the troops." What percentage of the troops support the Iraq mission then? The answer is that the majority do. Clear enough?

this isn't a poll. the point is not whether the mission is supported by a majority of the troops. the point is that those of us who are not risking our lives dismiss those veterans who voice concerns. you will never find courage in a poll. you'll never learn anything from one either. you learn by listening. you don't learn by being condescending to people who have displayed courage we'll never know.

Okay, Obi-Wan.

Mr Barber struggled with extremely distressing internal and external circumstances and felt war supporters like Limbaugh and Hannity were unaware and even dismmissive of his and other soldier's distress. Barber felt alone and unsupported in his terrible inward and outward struggle.

Duly noted.

Now, you start listening to the larger cacophany of voices from soldiers who love FNC and Limbaugh and believe the rest of the media discounts their work and ignores any progress that's been made in Iraq.

And let Mr Barber rest in peace.

Dopey's dancing on this subject reminds me of my youth. When I use to go to the old drive-in movie and they would have the dancing hot dogs on the screen during intermission.

If Mr. Barber felt alone and unsupported why didn't he turn on air-america and listen to Randi Rhodes? She was in the Army. And it's not impossible to get through on the phone. And, just like Dopey used Mr. Barber's illness to score points. Maybe Randi could have USED Mr. Barber to score ratings!

I still think that one guy comes out and calls Hannity, Limbaugh, Fox news spineless cowards. And I think he would have to mean all armed-forces personel that listen are spineless cowards also. BECAUSE DOPEY WON'T ANSWER THE QUESTION! Then again why am I debating with a person that hangs out at Star-Trek conventions?.........nevermind.

Would you like that supersized?

"And let Mr Barber rest in peace." What does that mean? Why do you even need to say such a thing? We should honor the man by giving him the recognition he deserved.

You are such a polecat.

The only reason this man matters to you an iota is that he criticised a particlar set of talk show hosts.

You're an utter waste of pixels. Over and out.

lol.