Tonight Air America TV was at its best! I can't watch this clown anymore. It is sick to see how one sided he is. Thanks for your web page.

I switch to it occasionally to have a good laugh.
It's not funny any more. He's really gone off the deep end. I wonder how much money George Soros is putting in his bank account.

KO says:
"Not only weren't they mobile weapons labs, but the President knew they weren't mobile weapons labs from the very start. How Nixonian is this?"

Nixonian? (and I love that "from the very start" bit - complete nonsense, since the first two analyses came back positive)

Original, ain't he?

Imagine that, I just posted today in response to Somerby's critique that KO isn't without substance because he's too busy or doesn't care; KO is without substance because he's incapable of providing it.

He uses, I said, cliches like "Orwellian" or "Nixonian" as a substitute for depth or details.

And whaddya know? Out trots his "Nixonian" cliche.

The man need to go back and do his dog-and-pony show with Patrick.

SMG

What is so sad is that you people are still buying the Bush Administration's tall stories. See how nice I am not to call a lie a lie, or a ton of lies. Obfuscations. Ask yourself are you better off now or when the pretender took office? Oh, I know responders will write how great the economy is. For Whom? Dick Cheney and family? All Americans need to forget party affiliations and the Christian Right (wrong) and join together to get this administration out of office before anymore damage, lives are lost.

Olbermann is just a coward. He's not even worth discussing anymore.
I hope George Soros is taking care of him because at this rate he'll be gone a year.
Keith, I heard AlJazeera International is Hiring!

What is so sad is that you people are still buying the Bush Administration's tall stories. See how nice I am not to call a lie a lie, or a ton of lies. Obfuscations. Ask yourself are you better off now or when the pretender took office? Oh, I know responders will write how great the economy is. For Whom? Dick Cheney and family? All Americans need to forget party affiliations and the Christian Right (wrong) and join together to get this administration out of office before anymore damage, lives are lost.

"All Americans need to forget party affiliations and the Christian Right (wrong) and join together to get this administration out of office before anymore damage, lives are lost. "

If I had to defend Mr. Olbermann's reporting, I'd try to divert the discussion to the Christian Right or avian bird flu or my cat's furballs or earwax or just about anything else too.

The man and his show and his reporting is completely indefensible.

But I guess that, just as there are no enemies on the Left to the Left, there aren't any bad reporters on the Left to the Left either.

SMG

Olbermann is just a coward. He's not even worth discussing anymore.
I hope George Soros is taking care of him because at this rate he'll be gone a year.
Keith, I heard AlJazeera International is Hiring!

Somehow I get the feeling that Olby knows his days are numbered at MSNBC, so he doesn't care any more. He doesn't even pretend to be a reporter. He is skewing so far to the left apparently in the hope that once his gig is up, he will latch on to some leftwing NPR type of gig.

Tuned into see that deplorable wretch Olbermann blathering on about the Moussaui trial and discussing Flight 93. The description of what occured was difficult to watch. When Keith came back onscreen, all I could think was that a spineless, lying, cowardly, anti-American sack-of-crap like Olbermann has no right to mention the people who died on September 11th. Every threat we face is downplayed by this ass while he undermines our soldiers and insults our military. Absolutely grotesque.

Patrick,
I think he'll end up on Al-Jazeera international or the English version of Hugo Chavez's Telesur sinces NPR is to Rightwing for him.
Or maybe he'll be George Soros's personal butler!

Patrick,
I think he'll end up on Al-Jazeera international or the English version of Hugo Chavez's Telesur sinces NPR is to Rightwing for him.
Or maybe he'll be George Soros's personal butler!

KFK,
I couldn't agree with you more! It's only a matter of time before Zarqawi, Zawahiri or the Iranian nutjob give Olbermann an exclusive interview! He'll than call them freedoom fighters since they're fighting the evil fascist Bush regime.
He'll do this after he gets hired by Al-Jazeera!
He hides under his desk because he thinks Bush's assasination team is out to get him!

Olby's exposed as a loon
And a liar, fraud, and buffoon.
He brings up the rear
In the ratings each year
Which makes his ass kissers fume.

KFK nailed it...

Posted by: Jill Perry at April 12, 2006 09:58 PM

What is so sad is that you people

What's with the ... you people.

Racist pig.

Hey Jill,
How are you going to remove Bush?
Are you going to fly down to Cuba and get advise from Castro or read Che Guevara's bio?

Jill will wear a berret and say "Viva la revelocion"!

Jill is trying to inflame the discussion and distract it away from the indefensible Keith Olbermann. Note that she address none of the lies and distortions of Krazy Keith. Don't fall for her diversionary tactics.

I wish Olbermann would come out of the closet and join Al-Jazeera already, he'll fit right in!

I wonder what the Aristotle of our time Jack Frost has to say about this. Hey Frost can enlighten us with you wisdom about tonight's Olbermann episode.
If we don't hear from you that means the Bush Criminal Syndicate got you!
Do you see unmarked cars and helicopters pass you house too?

I wonder what the Aristotle of our time Jack Frost has to say about this. Hey Frost can enlighten us with you wisdom about tonight's Olbermann episode.
If we don't hear from you that means the Bush Criminal Syndicate got you!
Do you see unmarked cars and helicopters pass you house too?

SMG: I am proof that you are wrong when you say that the left cannot criticise people on the left.
I am a lefty but please don't think that clown Olberman speaks for me. I am convinced the only ideology Olberman holds is study of his sorry self. He is as mentioned above soon to be fired by MSNBC and that is the real countdown

Forget, for a minute, whether Bush knew about thr report. Think about this. Bush knew all along that he didn't have the findings of the true nature of the so-called weapons labs, yet he went to the american public and told us that they were evidence of WMD's. In other words, he didn't wait for the findings before he went around proclaiming them to be WMD's. Why didn't he wait for confirmation? Where's your righteous indignation for that whopper?

You are swallowing Olbermann's spin. There WAS a report, the DIAC/CIA report that was an official finding of both organizations. It said exactly what Bush said. It turned out to be incorrect, but that doesn't change the fact that it existed and was in effect at the time Bush made his statements.

Of course Olby wants you believe Bush knew they weren't WND trailers "from the start", so he completely spikes ANY mention of the DIAC/CIA report whatsoever, and runs his "Bush lied" story even after ABC news has retracted it. Somebody lied, all right. Olbermann.

Olbermann is just an extreme Left George Soros propaganda mouthpiece.
Didn't he admitt that he consults with Hillary Clinton for material?

Just when you start to think that this site isn't as radical as Little Green Footballs or some other conservative site you get people like KfK claiming KO is "Anti-American" and that he "doesn't have the right to mention the people who died on 9/11" - give me a break.

It's really surreal when you see people on these blogs trying to defend a preemptive invasion of Iraq where the only backup they can now use is that "Saddam was a bad guy."

What Fitz said has no bearing on the Libby case. Libby is still on trial for perjury and obstruction of justice.

People aren't supportive of this administration, something KfK, Johnny Dollar, and O'Reilly Rules seem to forget.

Ummm.... If the DIAC/CIA report was so great, why did they send in a team of experts two look at the trailers and why did they figure out in less than 4 hours that the trailers did not represent WMDs? Perhaps Bush was cherry-picking again?

From the WaPo
The technical team's findings had no apparent impact on the intelligence agencies' public statements on the trailers. A day after the team's report was transmitted to Washington -- May 28, 2003 -- the CIA publicly released its first formal assessment of the trailers, reflecting the views of its Washington analysts. That white paper, which also bore the DIA seal, contended that U.S. officials were "confident" that the trailers were used for "mobile biological weapons production."

The day after the technical team submitted a report that there were no WMDs the CIA repeated the falsehood. Doesn't anyone in this administration know what is going on? Why did they continue the lie for months afterwards? They're no longer cherry-picking at this point, its just out and out lieing.

Perhaps we should just file this under "Incompetent Administration" and avoid the whole argument.

With guests like Dana Milbank
Olby's ratings bottom the tank
Keith's spirit is mean
His motives unclean
Meltdown perpetuates last in rank

To Non factor,
Hate to pop your bubble, but the reason people don't support Bush (I don't) is that he's not tough enough on the Islamo-Fascists. If he went after Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan the way we went after Germany and Japn in WW2 his approval would be at 70%!
keith Olbermann is anti American, all he does is bash this government and says nothing about Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran. In fact during the cartoon riots, he defended those nut jobs by saying "I don't blame them". Clinton did too bye the way.
I wonder, if Catholics and Evangelicals protested an anti Jesus cartoon Keith and the Leftist media would say they're Rightwing extremists or they're suppressing freedom of speech!
the fact is in another war in another time he would be arrested for sedition and hanged!
that's a fact!
At least when he's canned Al-Jazeera international can hire him. He'd fit right in!

If he went after Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan the way we went after Germany and Japn in WW2 his approval would be at 70%!

And gas would be $5 a gallon (that is provided you could get it at all). The economy would be in the tank because nobody could afford to buy anything or go anywhere. Inflation and unemployment would be massive. We'd have a draft because there's no way to fight that many battles with the military we have now...

Trekkie, you make a valid point, however it does reinforce what I have suggested. We should do like Brazil, switch to Ethanol so the Islamo-Fascist can go back to walking their Camels in the desert. If we mobilized for all out war like we did in 1941, I'm sure we can crush those countries. Only total war is the way to win this.
Since the Bush administration isn't willing to do
there's no point into continuing the wars in Iraq and Afgahnistan.

I don't know if you've studied WWII, Rules, but there are a bunch of differences between that war, and this one (or potential ones) in the middle east. But that isn't really an issue.

Why do people like you and KfK insist on calling people anti-American or pro-terrorist with no evidence at all. We call these fallacies in the real world.

When you think invading all the middle east is a good thing, you know something's wrong.

We should do like Brazil, switch to Ethanol so the Islamo-Fascist can go back to walking their Camels in the desert.

Ethanol is inefficient - it produces 50% less power per unit than gasoline. Which means 1.5 units of ethanol = 1 unit of gasoline (assuming that the ethanol does not contain any additives such as water to "stretch" the mixture). Not to mention that most American-built engines (especially V6 and V8 blocks) aren't built for ethanol. It would require massive, and expensive, conversion to make the new fuel work (like the conversion that occured when unleaded gasoline became the standard).

Not to mention that current ethanol plants use natural gas as their primary fuel source, which if you look at prices for that particular source it makes gasoline prices look bargain basement. Two planned ethanol plants had to be scrapped because they couldn't get enough natural gas to operate.

Hydrogen fuel cells and soybean/biodiesel might be the better bet...

Nonfactor wrote:

"Just when you start to think that this site isn't as radical as Little Green Footballs or some other conservative site you get people like KfK claiming KO is "Anti-American" and that he "doesn't have the right to mention the people who died on 9/11" - give me a break."

He then wrote:

"It's really surreal when you see people on these blogs trying to defend a preemptive invasion of Iraq where the only backup they can now use is that "Saddam was a bad guy.""

OK Nonfactor. Keith is a patriot. A patriot who has not said ONE GOOD THING about the military. Not ONE. No stories about progress in Iraq, no stories about the danger posed by terrorists, and NO STORIES ABOUT THE VICTIMS OF TERROR. The only time he talks about the flight 93 victims is in relation to that monster Moussaui. He disgusts me, and he is incapable of understanding what we face from terrorists, just like you.

Your statement: "the only backup they can now use [for the Iraq war] is that "Saddam was a bad guy."" Displays your naive stance on the issue. How about Saddam ignored weapons inspectors? How about he hid enriched uranium? How about he kept shooting at our planes in the "no fly" zone? How about the ties between Saddam and terror:

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/006710.php

"This particular memo, dated March 17, 2001, comes from a brigadier general in the Iraqi Air Force and requests a list of volunteers from all units under his command for suicide attackers."

The memo specifically states:

"we ask to provide that Division with the names of those who desire to volunteer for Suicide Mission to liberate Palestine and to strike American Interests and according what is shown below to please review and inform us."

These memos are being translated as we speak, and each new finding makes the chant "Bush lied people died" sound dumber and dumber.

A more relevant issue is Iran. Nonfactor, I am going to ask you some questions and I ask you to focus and answer them.

1. Do you believe Iran is trying to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes.

2. Do you believe Iran would use nuclear weapons against the West?

3. If diplomacy fails and Iran continues its nuclear program, what is your solution.

Eddie:
SMG: I am proof that you are wrong when you say that the left cannot criticise people on the left.
I am a lefty but please don't think that clown Olberman speaks for me.

Noted.

I didn't mean to imply that everyone on the Left refuse to criticize people on their own side.

I was using a pretty well-known (if tired) accusation against the political Left.

And, of course, those of us on the Right are accused of being apologists for Bush. I'm not by any manner. He's a mediocre-to-poor president running an (too) often incompetent Administration.

But there's a wide gap between being a lousy leader and being a corrupt one.

SMG

I know Keith's opening story tonight! Really, I do! I swear! I saw it on Drudge and I know he'll be anxious to correct any statements or implications he's made in the past regarding the President's and VP's roles in "Plamegate". Here it is:

"Libby Says Bush, Cheney Didn't Authorize CIA Agent's Name Leak"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aWzxmYKN1bpY&refer=us

I just know he'll lead with this, and we'll probably hear an apology as well! I'll be waiting for this correction as I await the Easter Bunny!

"Libby Says Bush, Cheney Didn't Authorize CIA Agent's Name Leak"

I'm sure KO will have that. Additionally, Olbermann may follow up with this revelation, one from Fitzerald's court filings that discusses the events of September 2003 (remember, Libby reportedly discussed Valerie Plame in June and July):

During this time [September 2003], while the President was unaware of the role that the Vice President's Chief of Staff and National Security Adviser had in fact played in disclosing Ms. Wilson's CIA employment, [Libby] implored White House officials to have a public statement issued exonerating him.

Gee, two filings by Fitzgerald that state that Bush was not involved in the disclosure of Valerie Plame/Wilson.

KO will be right on top of these along with David Shuster. I'm sure.

Y'know, the person here who most closely practices Nixonian behavior is Olbermann himself.

SMG

1. Do you believe Iran is trying to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes.

No.

2. Do you believe Iran would use nuclear weapons against the West?

Against the West? No. Against Israel? Absolutely

3. If diplomacy fails and Iran continues its nuclear program, what is your solution.

There is no "good solution". We have no ground force available to take action and air strikes using conventional munitions would not destroy the hardened sites that the nuclear facilities are in. However, using tactical nukes (while effective) would cause more problems than it would solve. So at the moment, I would say we don't have a solution.

I saw a report yesterday about Fitzgerald having to retract an error. It also was reported that this isn't the first time Fitzgerald's office has had to retract or correct something. Is this true? Now comon' you libs, Olby could have made mention this and did it in a way that would have made him look okay. A pasing joke, something. But, to totally ignore it just flat out makes him look like the left wing HACK that he is!

By the way I first saw the report in a small spanish restaurant that had FOX NEWS on the t.v.. I think Jill Perry should call the I.N.S. immediately!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey ya know if the Loons took over it wouldn't be that bad at first. When they sent us to reprograming classs maybe we would get Jill Perry as our teacher. You have to admit that class would be fun the first week! Then she would send us to the firing squad!

O.R.R.

I left a word out so to smoke out Jack Frost. Mr. Perfect should be here any minute.

I was over at Media Matters. They have gone over the cliff folks. They laid the smackdown on Dave "THE SHAM" Shuster! Hey that's an Olby bud! Who's Next? Oh we can only pray. But I can see it now. For comming after me the great Olby. "MEDIA MATTERS, TONIGHT'S WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Eddie K.

Noted, Yes Eddie there is the left. The Looney left. And then there is Jill Perry, Jack Frost etc.etc.

Anonymous:
The day after the technical team submitted a report that there were no WMDs the CIA repeated the falsehood.

Did you read the reports on why this happened?

The technical team's report was a field report. The intelligence agencies review and go over field reports. This is raw intelligence that is vetted or analyzed for errors, omissions, et cetera. They just don't accept without examination the judgments of the field report.

It's absurd to argue that because the CIA received a field report on the 27th that on the 28th they should accept its findings. Especially since the two previous reviewed studies concluded that the labs were for biological weapons.

C'mon. Think.

SMG

if you wanna see a perfect example of the politics of fear and how the right-wing echo-chambers parrot the administration's irresponsible fear-mongering rhetoric (i.e., why 70% of polled enlisted personal who served in iraq believed what the administration told them: that sadaam was actually BEHIND 9/11) take a look at thedrudgereports top story screaming headline:

IRAN 'COULD PRODUCE NUCLEAR BOMB IN 16 DAYS"

irresponsible FauxNews-like "journalism", irresponsible administration.

(as "evidence", the story drudge links to at bloomberg.com contains a quotation stating that the 50,000 centrifuges Iran is suspected of having could produce enough enriched URANIUM for a bomb in 16 days.)

It's absurd to argue that because the CIA received a field report on the 27th that on the 28th they should accept its findings. Especially since the two previous reviewed studies concluded that the labs were for biological weapons.

2,222 U.S. dead since "Mission Accomplished". Yes, I think they should be interested in the latest findings. At the very least, they should have held up their report until the contradictory findings could be reconciled. Otherwise, they might mislead the American people. That's wrong, isn't it?

Sorry to distract you all. Now go back to your "War on Easter".

I thought it was the loons who were havin' the "War on Easter". The only people I see gettin' their panties in a wad about this is the Loons. Shame on you Loons! What did Buggs Bunny ever do to you! Wack Job!

Is hit and run really Elmer Fudd?

"It's absurd to argue that because the CIA received a field report on the 27th that on the 28th they should accept its findings."

hardly ... they knew within hours ... they're just corrupt liars ...

"The members of that Pentagon fact-finding mission unanimously concluding the exact opposite, that the trailers were little more than, quote, "the biggest sand toilets in the world," a conclusion they reached rapidly, one team member telling "The Post," quote,

"Within the first four hours, it was clear to everyone that these were not biological labs," the report, stamped "Secret," and reportedly shelved, its findings apparently ignored as senior members of the administration, Mr. Cheney, Mr. Powell, Ms. Rice, Mr. Wolfowitz, Mr. Bolton continued to claim the trailers were mobile weapons factories."
-- Keith Olbermann, 04/12/06

Hey Puck,
Maybe Jack Frost is on the run from the Bush Criminal Syndicate!

Trekkie,
You're right, Biofules and Hydrogen cells are the way to go. The point I'm making is that from a national security standpoint, we must become energy independent! That way the Islamic conutries can go back to selling camels and rugs and Chavez can sell Bananas!

Nonfactor wrote:

"There is no "good solution". We have no ground force available to take action and air strikes using conventional munitions would not destroy the hardened sites that the nuclear facilities are in. However, using tactical nukes (while effective) would cause more problems than it would solve. So at the moment, I would say we don't have a solution."

Well, Non, your military expertise is impressive. I appreciate your Democrat stance that there "is no solution" and we have to sit back and wait for Iran to make a nuke and use it. Answer me this:

1. Let's suppose we DO have the troops and we Do have the military expertise to attack Iran with tactical strikes and destroy their nuke facilities. What then?

This argument that somehow the administration must have misrepresented Saddam Hussein as being directly involved with 9/11 because so many people have that impression, just isn't commonsensical and it's more than a little disingenuous.

Wouldn't the mass media, with it's endless stories and analysis before and after the war, be just as culpable? This is especially valid if the excuse is that they (the media)were duped and simply passed on unverified information?

And just how culpable is ANYONE for someone else's false impression?

There was a poll showing most Canadians under the age of 30 believe that the Bush Administration plotted 9/11? Who's responsible for this group believing something something this crazy-- or--- to put it more mildly for some folks-- who's responsible for group's extrapolation of warranted (depending on your POV) mistrust into bona-fide madman territory?

Another red flag goes off in my mind at using the military as a sample. This is particularly fraught with potential for the sort of misimpressions that this study seems to be analysing. In their case, military training would tend to lump all enemies into a "the enemy" monolithic category.

There's another question too. Isn't it the perogative of any elected administration to "cherry-pick" information? To give information their own coinage based on their own interpretation of the facts and their own worldview? The view that should have been exposed by the media before the voters went to the polls.

What use is it to say, you believed that Saddam had weapons because you went with this info instead of this other info? Guess what-- that's what the people in charge do...

KFK,
Nonfactor would still oppose it sinse the Left has a utopian view of Iran. They're anti American so that means they're good!

To Nonfactor,
If we used tactical nukes, what problems would it cause? Doesn't it bother you that the president of Iran Ahmedijerkoff talks to an imaginary friend called the 12th Iman. I mean dude is like what 50 and he stills has an imaginary friend! Doesn't that scare you?

Trekkie,
Doesn't it scare you the president of Iran has an imaginary friend and cliams to see lights when he speaks?

Where is the logic or sense in telling an enemy won't do whether or not it's a realistic option or not?

Where is the logic in telling in military strategists-- "This is off the table, boys and girls. Don't analyse this scenario. Pretend like such an option does not exist."

(Frankly, I've never seen a bunch of people more willing to throw out any semblance of commonsense in order to cry foul.)

"Doesn't it scare you the president of Iran has an imaginary friend and cliams to see lights when he speaks?"

no more scary than the president of the united states saying he has an imaginary friend (god) who tells him to go to war in the middle east.

Sorry-- I meant "where's the logic in letting an enemy know what you will and you won't do."

To name changer,
The fact is you dicredit yourself in that anology. It's one thing to have faith in God, it's another to claim to the 12th Iman.
It's obvious you hate your own country. Stop being a coward and post with one name.

"The fact is you dicredit yourself in that anology."

non-sequitor.

"It's one thing to have faith in God, it's another to claim to the 12th Iman."

non-sequitor.

"It's obvious you hate your own country. Stop being a coward and post with one name."

non-sequitor.

To Cox or Johnny Dollar,

Are the following the same poster?

KeithAndDeanTellTheTruthsYouCantHandle
StupidCorruptIneptCriminal
LyingUsIntoTheNextWar
MostOfThoseWIthABrainAgree
HecklesForTheDCWarCriminal
OneOfTheBestCountdownsEver

If so can expose this fraud.
he has no intellectual credibility just takes shots and doesn't respond.
Coward!

To RCOX and Johnny Dollar,

I believe these 2 are also the same clown,
YeahRIghtGodWantsWarInTheMiddleEastGeorge
FirstAdminLiesAboutIraqNowIran

Please expose this person.

When your boss, the President of MSNBC, calls your show the best show on television, and you have higher ratings than CNN (both networks have probably conceded that they're stuck fighting for second place), I don't think you have to worry about being cancelled.

it's a free country (at least it used to be : )

Olby says "no" to dissent
Only views of a liberal bent
Are found on his show
With ratings so low
His audience meets in a tent.

KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules! KeithRules!

To Name Changer,
If it's not a free country why do Millions want to come here?
Do Black helicopters and unmarked cars follow you?

Resolution on loss of civil liberties

WHEREAS, the Bush administration has promoted a welter of proposals, including legislation which invades the privacy and civil rights of millions of Americans under the guise of fighting terrorism; and

WHEREAS, the Administration has jailed several American citizens who are being held without the constitutionally guaranteed right to counsel, is holding other individuals in secret with no charges and no information as to whom is being held and has caused the deportation of individuals without public hearings; and

WHEREAS, the Administration, under a program known as Total Information Awareness, intends to create a grand database of public and private information on all Americans, which would allow the government to analyze billions of records, ranging from credit card purchases to Internet surfing habits, travel documents, e-mails and personal medical files without any knowledge of the individuals concerned or adequate Congressional oversight, Now, therefore,

BE IT RESOLVED, that the Santa Clara County Democratic Central Committee urges the Congress of the United States to undertake a far-reaching debate on the erosion of civil rights in this country and that the Congress question the need for the Total Information Awareness Program and take all steps necessary to ensure that all of our citizens are afforded the privacy and personal liberties we have so long taken for granted.

What liberties have we lost?
If liberties are being taken away, where are the death squads and why are you still alive?
Why are people allow to bear arms, in a dictatorship, guns are confiscated. That's what you guys want to do.
If you hate this country so much, leave!
I'll take 10 Million appreciate Mexicans over 1 Marxist like you any time!
Who are the individuals being held?

Military calls intensify for Rumsfeld to go

By Demetri Sevastopulo in Washington
Published: April 12 2006 23:15 | Last updated: April 12 2006 23:15

Donald Rumsfeld, US defence secretary, was facing a growing rebellion from his own military yesterday as a senior officer joined the ranks of retired generals calling for his resignation.

Retired Major General John Baptiste became the fourth retired general in less than a month to openly criticise Mr Rumsfeld for his management of the Pentagon and his handling of the war in Iraq.

One thing is for certain....KO cintinues to embarrass himself, the network and his viewers by continually parading out such widely discredited "sources" such as David Shuster, Dana Milbank, Joe Wilson (soon to be a convicted felon), John Dean (a convicted felon), John Wolff, Craig Crawford and Howard Fineman.
Sad thing is, over at the DUmp these guys are "heros"...they hit the bong water real hard over there

if you wanna see a perfect example of the politics of fear and how the right-wing echo-chambers parrot the administration's irresponsible fear-mongering rhetoric (i.e., why 70% of polled enlisted personal who served in iraq believed what the administration told them: that sadaam was actually BEHIND 9/11)

Only Bush hating neo-liberals could believe what this dufus just posted. Having been to Iraq twice, not as military however, during this war, and having talked with hundreds of military personal of all ranks, I can guarantee you that not one of them believes Saddam was behind 9/11, nor did they ever. Only lazy military haters on the left make this declaration. Do you Bush hating liberals really believe our brave young men and women are that stupid? Of course you do.

I would like to congratulate Keith Olbermann, in case he reads this site.

You know you've made it to the big time when someone dedicates an entire website to criticizing you. I'm impressed.

That Racist Scumback Jerkoff on the Frost believes the troops and anyone else is stupid.
He claims to have info on secret plans for detention centers!
Although honestly I would'nt mind seeing the Bush Criminal Sydicate death squads eliminate him!
It's only a dream since no camps or syndicates exist.
I'm waiting for your response Racist Commie!

Sorry, one more post in this thread.

I hope Keith mentions this little gem tonight in Scooter's filing where he supposedly exonerates the VP and Prez.

From Scooter's latest filing via FDL.
The defense has the right to argue at trial that Mr. libby?s actions with respect to the NIE were authorized at the highest levels of the Executive Branch, and would be entitled to bolster such arguments with documents and testimony.

Kind of like saying, yeah they're innocent while holding a gun to the VP and Prez's head. Can you say "pardon me"? I knew you could.

Some dope posted a story without the link:

"Military calls intensify for Rumsfeld to go"

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/9ff3ff0e-ca71-11da-852f-0000779e2340.html

To the dope who took this at face value, realize that there are lots of Generals and many are disgruntled. If they complain when they retire, chances are they were somehow pushed out or left on bad terms. That doesn't mean they should be ignored. That just means their statements should be taken with a grain of salt.

Rumsfeld has pushed the military into the 21st century, and pissed off alot of old-timers. Too bad for them. Interesting how they get so much press, while the remaining Generals who support Rumsfeld enjoy complete anonymity! What a surprise.

By the way, this is Olbermannwatch. Try to talk about Olbermann.

"Having been to Iraq twice, not as military however, during this war, and having talked with hundreds of military personal of all ranks, I can guarantee you that not one of them believes Saddam was behind 9/11, nor did they ever."

--------------
ZOGBY INTERNATIONAL
Released: February 28, 2006

U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say End War in 2006

An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows.

The wide-ranging poll also shows that 58% of those serving in country say the U.S. mission in Iraq is clear in their minds, while 42% said it is either somewhat or very unclear to them, that they have no understanding of it at all, or are unsure. While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly "to retaliate for Saddam�s role in the 9-11 attacks."

To name changer,
Your really an annoying troll. Get a life.

Worst President Ever

"George W. Bush has trashed the image and reputation of the United States throughout the world; he has offended many of our previously close allies; he has burdened future generations with incredible debt; he has created an unnecessary war to further his domestic political objectives; he has suborned the civil rights of our citizens; he has destroyed previous environmental efforts by government in favor of his coterie of exploiters; he has surrounded himself with a cabal ideological adventurers; he is blatantly a puppet for corporate interests; he lies, constantly and often, seemingly without control; he does not think, process, or speak well, and is emotionally immature due to, among other things, his lack of recovery from substance abuse. The term is "dry drunk".

He is, by far, the most irresponsible, unethical, inexcusable occupant of our formerly highest office in the land that there has ever been.

Back to Olbermann. . .

The ratings for Olby went south
He was somewhat down in the mouth
But it only got worse
The dreaded curse!
He's losing to Zahn in a rout!

Well, Non, your military expertise is impressive. I appreciate your Democrat stance that there "is no solution" and we have to sit back and wait for Iran to make a nuke and use it.

To Nonfactor,
If we used tactical nukes, what problems would it cause?

Wrong person, KfK and OReilly Rules. I wrote the response to those three questions, not Nonfactor. So can you guys stop jumping up and down on him, please?

Yes, back to Keith ... one of the best COUNTDOWNs ever ...

ALTER: Yes, I think pretty much, which is why there are not a lot of people who expect him to move very much in the polls. And once you're tagged as an incompetent, that's pretty hard to recover from ...

And so that's where these guys are now. Their credibility for getting the job done has been eroded, I think largely because they surround themselves with these yes-men, the truth doesn't get up the chain of command, as we saw with these trailers. So they—because people feel like if they tell them the truth, they're just going to get their heads bitten off. And as a result, your batting average on decisions goes down, down, down, your competence level goes down, down, down, because you're not making well-informed decisions.

OK Trekkie. Nonfactor has chosen the high road by dropping his weapon and hiding. You have grabbed his sword. Answer my queries. Do not lump your response to me in with the selective use of nukes against Iran, which would never happen.

" ... realize that there are lots of Generals and many are disgruntled. If they complain when they retire, chances are they were somehow pushed out or left on bad terms."

hardly pushed out ... refused promotion is more like it ... and if you really supported the troops, you'd have insisted Rummy be fired long ago ... but no, ya gotta tote the party line, even at the EXPENSE of our troops.

"Batiste's comments resonate especially within the Army: It is widely known there that he was offered a promotion to three-star rank to return to Iraq and be the No. 2 U.S. military officer there but he declined because he no longer wished to serve under Rumsfeld. Also, before going to Iraq, he worked at the highest level of the Pentagon, serving as the senior military assistant to Paul D. Wolfowitz, then the deputy secretary of defense.

Batiste said he believes that the administration's handling of the Iraq war has violated fundamental military principles, such as unity of command and unity of effort. In other interviews, Batiste has said he thinks the violation of another military principle -- ensuring there are enough forces -- helped create the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal by putting too much responsibility on incompetent officers and undertrained troops.

His comments follow similar recent high-profile attacks on Rumsfeld by three other retired flag officers, amid indications that many of their peers feel the same way."

Nonfactor has chosen the high road by dropping his weapon and hiding. You have grabbed his sword.

No, he didn't. Check the names on the posts.

1. Let's suppose we DO have the troops and we Do have the military expertise to attack Iran with tactical strikes and destroy their nuke facilities. What then?

Well, then we have the smae problem we had when we just lobbed cruise missles at targets and called it a day. Iran will just rebuild them and harden them even more. And we'll make the situation in Iraq worse than it already is because Iran will see no real downside to further stretching already strained troop levels there.

Of course, terrorism levels will spike because we'll be attacking yet another Muslim and Middle Eastern nation.

NONFACTOR HAS CHOSEN THE HIGH ROAD BY DROPPING HIS WEAPON AND HIDING?

Just what in the wild, wild ,world of sports is going on here?
All I heard from the far left Loons was how Sadamm had nukes deep in the ground and we would never get near them or him. That the special forces would run us over. It would be worse then Vietnam! Bla,Bla,Bla! And what happened? we ran through that country like a hot knife through butter! And what do I hear. The same crap from the same bunch. And while we are at it you Eiensteins better start checking month by month death charts. No matter how you out come based education wing-nuts try to spin it. It's going in the right direction. Hey why do you think we are on the libby crap night after night. Even KO can't spin this one. And if terrorism levels are going to start going through the roof. Don't you think they would start this by now. Don't you think they would start blowing up aisle three in the local Shop-Rite by now. Oh yeah those Loons over there won't touch us as long as we don't bother them and their little bomb makers. PUT DOWN THE PIPE NOW!!!!!! signed: o'reillyisnumberonenoonecareswhatstupidthingsyoupostcausewhowantstotakethetimetoreadstupidsigncrapcauseyourerealnameisjust PINHEAD!

"16 Days" is the new "16 Words"

The Bush administration is trying to ratchet up the public perception of a "crisis" in Iran in order to divert attention from the president's other problems and to create a wedge issue to divide Democrats before the upcoming congressional elections. As with Iraq and Social Security, the administration is now lying about how urgent a crisis we face in Iran.

Wednesday April 12, Stephen Rademaker, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Nonproliferation, told reporters in Moscow that Iran would only need 16 days to produce a nuclear weapon.

What Rademaker said is patently false.

16 days is how long it would take Iran to produce a modicum of enriched uranium, and that is a far cry from producing a nuclear weapon. In fact, the US intelligence community's best and most-recent estimate is that Iran might be able to build a nuclear weapon in ten years, not 16 days. Furthermore, in 2005, the US intelligence community did a National Intelligence Estimate of Iran's nuclear program and concluded that the previous estimate of Iran's nuclear ability was incorrect -- the new study concluded that it would take Iran a minimum of ten years to build a nuclear weapon, and even then, only if everything went right.

And what happened? we ran through that country like a hot knife through butter!

If that is truly the case, why is the President saying that we'll be there through the end of his Administration and into the next? Why are we building "long-term" military bases? Why aren't troop levels decreasing?

You're using the same Pollyanna "everything is sunshine and rainbows" perspective that got us into this in the first place. If anyone needs to lay off the meds, it's you.

Isn't this great. Some other Loon on this post was talking about Olby's show is the best thing on cable and how they beat CNN. Hey not most nights. AND NOT IN TOTAL VIEWERS! And then there that O'Reilly dude. Uh Loons....How many people watch him? By the way is oreillywatch up and running yet? I know it would be much easier to just do hit and runs. Why let facts get in the way. And if Zhan decided to get her ass in gear and produce something more then a snoozefest well....But that brings up a good question for Mr.Dollar or Mr. Cox. Where Do Olby's ratings come from the start of the show, the middle, certainly not the end. Who could stay around for Creepy Musto. Unless you're a Loon. What I'm getting at, The one reason Cosby's numbers may be so dismal is that Olby takes Hardballs numbers at the start and makes them disappear by the end. what do ya think?

Wednesday April 12, Stephen Rademaker, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Nonproliferation, told reporters in Moscow that Iran would only need 16 days to produce a nuclear weapon.

What Rademaker said is patently false.

Would you like to wager that the press's accounts of what he exactly said are wrong?

Y'know, one of these days the Democrats will recapture the White House. And then this horrific and sloppy reporting will be directed at your guy (or gal).

Then, and only then, will you start complaining about the press's inaccuracies and negligent work.

SMG

"Wednesday April 12, Stephen Rademaker, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Nonproliferation, told reporters in Moscow that Iran would only need 16 days to produce a nuclear weapon."

What Rademaker said is patently false.

Would you like to wager that the press's accounts of what he exactly said are wrong?

Y'know, one of these days the Democrats will recapture the White House. And then this horrific and sloppy reporting will be directed at your guy (or gal).

Then, and only then, will you start complaining about the press's inaccuracies and negligent work.

SMG

Did we or did we not run through that country. Did we get bogged down some where I forgot could you tell me I missed something. Now after all was said and done yes but, everybody I talk to that has been over there the first words out of their mouths is. "why doesn't the press say something about the good things we are doing over there"?. But, how many years were we in Germany after WW2? Did we just scram after we were done? And how many soldiers got picked off in the first couple of years there. Pipe Boy! Sunshine and rainbows? what kind of crap is that? So according to you we should be getting ready to blow past 3000 deaths any day now. Wait! isn't that the nurse I hear bringing you're meds?

Common' hurry up I gotta get to the Devils-Flyers game.

Trekkie, you bring up a vey valid point. The problem with the invasion is we didn't mobilize 1942 style. We didn't send in enough troops to occupy the sountry.
I do agree we shouldn't build long term bases.
Since the American people don't have a stomach for a long term battle with Islamo-Fascism we should leave! Just arm the Shiites and Kurds with tanks and planes and let them crush the Sunnis and their Al-Qaeda allies.
We agree on the situation but from different angles.
The problem is our reliance on imported oil solve that and you've won 80% of the war against Islamo-Fascism.

Cut and run, Oh yeah thats a REAL good idea anonyloon!

Puck I wrote that. I meant that we should arm the Shiites and Kurds and let them deal with Al-Qaeda and the Sunnis. I don't advocate cut and run but arm them and let them do the dirty work.

Hey I see Frosty Aristotle responded, so I reponded to that racist paranoid jerk.

45 minutes until Al-Jazeera USA comes on!

45 minutes until Al-Jazeera USA comes on!

Now after all was said and done yes but, everybody I talk to that has been over there the first words out of their mouths is. "why doesn't the press say something about the good things we are doing over there".

And the response is usually "The American Military says we can't because we'd make whatever place we're at a target. It's a security risk."

Not to mention the fact that when an average of 30 Iraqi civilians per day are killed by insurgents or sectarian violence, it's hard to put a happy face on. Not even something like a funeral can be covered because the insurgents have used them as a front for ambushes.

- if Catholics and Evangelicals protested an anti Jesus cartoon Keith and the Leftist media would say they're Rightwing extremists or they're suppressing freedom of speec

You don't have to wonder. Remember "PIss Christ" and when Guiliani tried to take away funding from the Brooklyn Museum of Art for an image of the Virgin Mary covered in feces?

O'Reilly Rules -

A bit obsessive aren't you.

Good point Robert!
Yeah, the media went after Guiliani.
MTV is also going to have an anti Catholic show making fun of the Pope. If the Catholic League comes out against this, Olberjerk will have on a MTV executive and praise MTV for excersing free speech. If it was anti Muslim Komrade Keitrh and the Left would condemn MTV as irresponsible! He also would have the terrorist supporting C.A.I.R on. The media is definately anti Judeo-Christian and pro Muslim. I wonder how much Saudi Petro money is lining these journalists's pockets?

Trekkie,

You ask "why is the President saying that we'll be there through the end of his Administration and into the next? Why are we building "long-term" military bases? Why aren't troop levels decreasing?"

I've written about this before so I am not going to elaborate here but it seems FEW, if any, of you really grasp the Bush Administration strategy in the Middle East even though it's post on the White House web site and has been for five years.

All of the stuff about WMDs, Saddam torture chambers, a threat to his neighbors and all that is crap. Just look at what has happened to understand why we invaded Iraq in the context of OBL. Go back to the eighties and early nineties to understand the civil war against the Saudi kingdom being run out of southern Yemen. Osama's primary grievance has always been that the ruling family in Saudi Arabia had allowed the infidels into the country when Saddam invaded Kuwait and threatened Saudi Arabia. He has argues that the King broke faith with all Muslims to protect the holy cities of Mecca and Medina. This had gained widespread report primarily because...it was true!

The problem for the US was that Saudi Arabia had become our primary base of operations for projecting force in the region. Invading Iraq was all about establishing a military prescence in the very heart of the Middle East from which would easily threaten Iran and Syria as well as other countries including Pakistan if it ever turned. And that's what happened and that is why were are going to be there for decades.

This is why I support what Bush did. It is why Iran is going nuts. It is why Syria panicked and pulled out of Lebanon. In the long history of the world the day to day news out of Iraq is going to be a blip. The real importance of the invasion of Iraq was giving the U.S. a permanent base of operations in a country with a long secular history.

Meanwhile, we have undermined Osama's best argument against us and shored up a key ally - the Saudis.

There is a lot more but I don't want to turn this into a long essay. Bottom line is that Bush is playing a world-historical geo-political game that I believe will have very good long-term consquences for the U.S. with a lot of short-term pain.

Given this, it doesn't matter one whit to me about "Bush Lied" or who told what to Scooter Libby or when Bush was told about the mobile bioweapons labs. That's all crap.

It's just like the left complaining about Bush's picks for SCOTUS. They can jump up and down all they want but even if the Dems get back in power it is going to be extremely difficult to undo the changes Bush had made. Likewise, in the Middle East. Even if a Dem is elected we are still going to keep bases in Iraq because the benefit of that to us is way too high to do anything else.

On a different topic...

Those complaining seem to have come up with the right solution to "name changer" - you have him/her a name regardless of what he/she posts under. That allows you all to respond to him/her. That said, if you don't like what he/she is writing then just blurb over it.

I don't believe in banning people and "name changer" hasn't done anything that warrants drastic measures. Just as he/she has the choice on whether and how to post yo have the choice to read/respond or ignore him/her.

God bless America.

Multiple names quoted some article:

""Batiste's comments resonate especially within the Army: It is widely known there that he was offered a promotion to three-star rank to return to Iraq and be the No. 2 U.S. military officer there but he declined because he no longer wished to serve under Rumsfeld."

Really? The guy decided to abandon his troops and his job because he didn't like Rummy? Does that make sense? Is this definitive? How do you know the number one spot? How do you know he isn't a bitter angry complainer? You wanna quote everyone who quit their job, then we can talk about any of the hundreds of disgruntled Clintonistas, right? Give me a break.

Woah, I'm gone one day and people miss me. In my absence I've been called a terrorist, a military expert, and anti-American. Let me see if I can get in on this.

1. Do you believe Iran is trying to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes?

No, but I do believe they shouldn't be subject to a pre-emptive strike seeing as how they haven't even violated any nonproliferation rules so far.

2. Do you believe Iran would use nuclear weapons against the West?

No.

3. If diplomacy fails and Iran continues its nuclear program, what is your solution?

You've since modified your question, so you want to know if I would oppose pre-emptive strike IF: diplomacy fails, we have enough troops, and if we have the military expertise take out Iran's nuclear facilities. This question in itself is a fallacy. Sure in a world of IF's I'd love to see every dictator gone with no civilian casualties, but that's not possible. I'm opposed to pre-emptive strike, period. I'm for hitting back a country with the full force of the American military if they attack us, nothing more, and nothing less.

Assuming diplomacy will fail is another dangerous thing. Ask anyone if they would have thought diplomacy would work with a nuclear-armed military dictator in Palestine and they'd say no. We can't strike a country of 70 million people based on assumptions.

P.S. I'm not a terrorist, seriously.

Nonfactor doesn't it bother you the the Iranian president ahmednijerk threaten to wipe an ally like Israel off the map?
Doesn't it scare you that he a grown man like him talks to an Imaginary friend called the 12th Iman and that he lights illumaniting above when he spoke at the U.N?
Come on Iran is a fascist state and if we do nothing once they get the nukes they'll use them because their ideology believes in death! Wake up Nonfactor.

I also don't think you're a traitor or terrorist.
just someone who doesn't see threats to this country that's all!

ZOGBY INTERNATIONAL
Released: February 28, 2006

To the multiple name person who was kind enough to post the polling data to buttress his earlier statement, um, there is nothing in the "Zogby" poll about 70+% of troops who have served in Iraq believing Saddam was behind 9/11. Thank you for proving yourself wrong. Also, for future reference, the Zogby brothers are as pro-arab/anti-bush as any special interest group can be when it comes to the war in Iraq.

The Zogby brothers are also anti-Jewish. They're Lebanese Christians that support Islamo-Fascists Hezzbollah. They're Dhimmis that seem to forget than in 1982 Israel helped the Christians to fight against the Islamo-Fascists. They're Dhimmis so they have no credibility!

doesn't it bother you the the Iranian president ahmednijerk threaten to wipe an ally like Israel off the map?

It bothers me, yes, but idle threats aren't something to invade a country on (and I think it was just Israel, not allies of Israel).

Doesn't it scare you that he a grown man like him talks to an Imaginary friend called the 12th Iman and that he lights illumaniting above when he spoke at the U.N?

Some people would also say God is imaginary, but no, it doesn't bother me.

Come on Iran is a fascist state and if we do nothing once they get the nukes they'll use them because their ideology believes in death!

That's just untrue. Iran is a bad and oppressive place because they're based of religious law, not fascism, and their ideology doesn't simply 'believe in death.'

We negotiate with other dictatorships (and Iran isn't even a dictatorship) like Pakistan, why? Because they have nukes! Iran and other countries see this and they want nukes as well, they see it as a bargaining tool. Why do we have a selective morality against China or North Korea? They have nukes! Blame this foreign policy for making other countries believe nukes are the answer.

just someone who doesn't see threats to this country that's all!

I know Iran is a possible threat to the country, as well as North Korea is, but that does not mean I support a pre-emptive strike on either countries before they've done anything (cutting off oil (maybe) for example or attacking an ally would warrant a strike).

Nonfactor,

'We negotiate with other dictatorships (and Iran isn't even a dictatorship) like Pakistan, why?'

Iran isn't a democracy it's a Fascist state run by clerics. They decide who runs for president. The reason Looney tunes got "elected" was because that's who the Ayatollahs and the Revolutionary Gaurds wanted. Did you know when Iranians vote, Gaurds look over their shoulder's!
They are fascist, Islamo-Fascist to be exact.
there is no freedom of speech, press, government informants, Women and minorities are oppresed.
It's a police state.
Prseident Ahmednijerk wants nukes to start an apocalyptic war so his Imaginary friend the 12th Iman can become visib;e.
That's his ideology.
I bet if Pat Robertson claimed God spoke to him you would ciondemn that right? I would by the way.
The Left in America always condemns the Christian Right not the Islamo-fascist!
Why is that?
Please answer I just want to know the logic.

O'Rules wrote:

"Please answer I just want to know the logic." [see above]

Answer: no logic, just cowardice and self-loathing in the face of madmen.

North Korea is a disaster thanks to appeasement master Jimmy Carter and BJ Bill Clinton. These lefties don't care. Their mantra should be "let them have nukes." Nonfactor probably lives in a safe place, so what is it to him if New York gets nuked? As for Israel, I think this Nonfactor comment says it all:

Question: "doesn't it bother you the the Iranian president threatens to wipe an ally like Israel off the map?"

Nonfactor's answer: "It bothers me, yes, but idle threats aren't something to invade a country on (and I think it was just Israel, not allies of Israel)."

This is an "idle threat" (place in context of Iran's rabid insistence on obtaining nukes):

[from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/27/wiran27.xml]
"President Ahmadinejad, elected in June, was addressing a conference in Teheran entitled "The World Without Zionism", attended by about 3,000 conservative students, who chanted: "Death to Israel!" and "Death to America!"

"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," he said. "As the Imam [the late Ayatollah Khomeini] said, 'Israel must be wiped off the map'… The Islamic world will not let its historic enemy live in its heartland."

Okey dokey Nonfactor! Let 'em get nukes! I also love the "stealth speedboats" and new missiles they keep telling us about. I guess those don't imply hostile intent. You dope.

KFK,
the funniest part was himn climing Iran isn't a Fascist state!

the funniest part was himn climing Iran isn't a Fascist state!

It isn't. It's a undemocratic theocracy, but not a facist state.

Facism requires that all elements of society subsume themselves to the state. In a facist state, the government is the be-all and end-all. It is the center of everything: society, culture, economy all bend to the will of the state.

Theocracy does not see the state as supreme. In a theocracy religion is supreme and the state bends to the will of the religious power.

In Iran, the "Supreme Leader" is a cleric that serves for life. He has command of the military and holds the power to declare war. The President of Iran, no matter how much he rattles sabers, is only the head of government and cannot actually use the military force of the state.

trekkie,
Theocracy is a form of Fascism.
In Iran the Religion and state are one!
President Jerkoff made his cabinet swear allegiance to his imaginary buddy the 12th Iman!

your staement:
'Facism requires that all elements of society subsume themselves to the state. In a facist state, the government is the be-all and end-all. It is the center of everything: society, culture, economy all bend to the will of the state.'

Perfectly describes Iran.
It's called Islamo-Fascism!
Trekkie, you're a liberal, I know you're against this form of government whatever it's called so we're really not disagreeing on the Evil nature of the state but the defination of it.
Either way their president is nuts! Like another Aryan leader, Adolf Hitler!

Robert -

'Bottom line is that Bush is playing a world-historical geo-political game that I believe will have very good long-term consquences for the U.S. with a lot of short-term pain.'

A fucking GAME?

You should be ashamed of yourself for equating a war with playtime.

Actually, the real game is the one you're playing with your attempts to make the Plame leak seem inconsequential.

Trekkie -

You rule.

You're providing some great information, as evidenced by how much you're setting people off here.

Cheers!

O'Reilly Rules -

'Theocracy is a form of Fascism.'

No, it isn't, but nice try, nonetheless.

Fascism is the collusion of corporations and the government to rule over the people.

I think we can all recognize that as the pet ideology of Dubya & Pals.

Robert -

'Bottom line is that Bush is playing a world-historical geo-political game that I believe will have very good long-term consquences for the U.S. with a lot of short-term pain.'

A fucking GAME?

You should be ashamed of yourself for equating a war with playtime.

Actually, the real game is the one you're playing with your attempts to make the Plame leak seem inconsequential.

Trekkie -

You rule.

You're providing some great information, as evidenced by how much you're setting people off here.

Cheers!

O'Reilly Rules -

'Theocracy is a form of Fascism.'

No, it isn't, but nice try, nonetheless.

Fascism is the collusion of corporations and the government to rule over the people.

I think we can all recognize that as the pet ideology of Dubya & Pals.

Jack Frost,
Theocracy is a form of Fascism! that's end of story. The Iranian Regime is a Religious Right regime!
It's funny that you leftists are quick to call the Christian Right Fascist but not the Ayatollahs in Iran?
Comeon. Theocracy is a form of Fascism.
If the US is a Fascist state where are the security forces and death squads like Iran?
Why are you allow to call this government Fascist and not be locked up or made to disappear?
Come on stop exagerating, it would be like calling the Clinton administration Marxist.
Bush has only 2 1/2 years left. Then you can vote for Hillary Clinton. She'll lose to Guiliani by the way.
Then if you hate Bush, you'll despise Guiliani!
He's definately a Crypto-Fascist and the Left's worst nightmare will then come through.
The fact is Fascism is usually a reaction against the Radical Left to preseve traditional society or National sovereignty.
So be carefull what you wish for.

Jack Frost,
Theocracy is a form of Fascism! that's end of story. The Iranian Regime is a Religious Right regime!
It's funny that you leftists are quick to call the Christian Right Fascist but not the Ayatollahs in Iran?
Comeon. Theocracy is a form of Fascism.
If the US is a Fascist state where are the security forces and death squads like Iran?
Why are you allow to call this government Fascist and not be locked up or made to disappear?
Come on stop exagerating, it would be like calling the Clinton administration Marxist.
Bush has only 2 1/2 years left. Then you can vote for Hillary Clinton. She'll lose to Guiliani by the way.
Then if you hate Bush, you'll despise Guiliani!
He's definately a Crypto-Fascist and the Left's worst nightmare will then come through.
The fact is Fascism is usually a reaction against the Radical Left to preseve traditional society or National sovereignty.
So be carefull what you wish for.

Robert -

'Bottom line is that Bush is playing a world-historical geo-political game that I believe will have very good long-term consquences for the U.S. with a lot of short-term pain.'

A fucking GAME?

You should be ashamed of yourself for equating a war with playtime.

Actually, the real game is the one you're playing with your attempts to make the Plame leak seem inconsequential.

Trekkie -

You rule.

You're providing some great information, as evidenced by how much you're setting people off here.

Cheers!

O'Reilly Rules -

'Theocracy is a form of Fascism.'

No, it isn't, but nice try, nonetheless.

Fascism is the collusion of corporations and the government to rule over the people.

I think we can all recognize that as the pet ideology of Dubya & Pals.

Christ, why did that get posted so many times?

Sorry, 'bout that.

O'Reilly Rules -

Well, you've finally done it.

You've created a rant to impenetrable there's no way to even begin to unravel the knots of skewed logic you tie.

Just curious, do you actually know how to have a conversation? Or are all of your dealings with people you don't agree with a litany of observations of questionable origin coupled with hostility and empty threats?

'Cuz this does kinda seem like a pattern for you...

Like the pattern of a broken record, in fact.

Jack Frost,

Game as in "strategy" dimwit.

Why attempt to enter the arena of ideas when you can play semantical games.

Don't worry, I forgive you. If you were as smart as me and I as dumb as you I would not want to get in a debate with you either.

PS, is "semantical" a word?

Jack Frost,
the fact is you have a Leftist world view. Every Leftist I know (My best friend is actually a Marxist)doesn't thinnk we have foreign enemies.
However she admitts Iran is a fascist stae. Fascism takes many forms, from Corporatism, Militarism and Religious oppression. I don't understand why people can't call a spades a spade. It's people like you who running around attacking our form of government that creates Fascism.
Bush is far from a Fascist if anything he's a Socialist.
However by calling the gov Fascist one day a real Fascist movement will take power.
no one will listen to your ilk because you kept crying wolf!

I'm not a Bush supporter nor am I a hater. The governmnet doesn't effect my life so who ever is in power, I don't care.
As long as the gov stay vigilant against Islamo-Fascism and the Chinese miltarists I'm content.
By the way Frost, I'll take Bush's Fascism over your Leftism any day of the week!

Hey Robert Cox and Puck,
We can't debate with an Internationally knowned intellectual like Jack Frost. He's beyond us in thought and reason.
He even psychoanalyzes us. A real Siegmund Freud!
He's a revolutionary who rivals Che Guevara in his struggle against the opressive Bush Crime Syndicate for our freedoms!
He's also a master spy that can rival any Mossad agent. He has secret info on detention centers that the BCS is building to put us in. He even know of plans to have us 300 Million Americans locked up in our own homes!
He's also a constitutional Scholar and puts Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson to shame!
A legal expert that would make Johnny Cochrane weep in envy from his grave!
All in all a true Renaissance Man!

To Jack Frost we are honored by your presence and would love it if you can keep posting with Renowned expertise!

Truly a Jack of all Treades!

touche

Robert -

'Game as in "strategy" dimwit.'

No, I read your post, you meant game, as in 'to play a game'.

And to advocate playing games with other people's lives is something you should be ashamed of...

'If you were as smart as me...'

Y'know this is something other people tell you, not a label you apply to yourself. This is just flat-out arrogance, which seems to be par for the course for you.

'I would not want to get in a debate with you either.'

Yes, I know because I've pegged you as a callous hypocrite on several occasions, which is also why I'm getting this posturing from you now.

'PS, is "semantical" a word?'

www.dictionary.com

O'Reilly Rules -

'It's people like you who running around attacking our form of government that creates Fascism.'

Once again, I am not against the government but the corporate war criminals that have stolen it from us.

And fascism is created when governments and corporations collude to rule over the people. By not questioning your leaders and allowing them to do fuck-all, you, Internet Tough Guy, are creating fascism.

Sleep tight.

'Bush is far from a Fascist if anything he's a Socialist.'

I think even some of your adherents would have a problem with that statement.

But I'll bite: tell me, how is Bush a socialist?

'However by calling the gov Fascist one day a real Fascist movement will take power.'

Remember what I said about how saying something over and over will not make it true?

Same thing applies here, also.

'no one will listen to your ilk because you kept crying wolf!'

Whaaa--?

'I'm not a Bush supporter nor am I a hater.'

Riiiiight.

'The governmnet doesn't effect my life so who ever is in power, I don't care.'

Oh, really? So, which fantasy land do you hail from, then? Lilliput? OZ? Freedonia? Brigadoon, perhaps?

'I'll take Bush's Fascism'

Yes, you will like a good little lickspittle.

'He even psychoanalyzes us. A real Siegmund Freud!'

Alright! Now I'm Freud, too! And yes, I do psychoanalyze you, it's actually really easy as you guys are pretty transparent, especially Robert.

'He's a revolutionary who rivals Che Guevara in his struggle against the opressive Bush Crime Syndicate for our freedoms!'

As I said, revolts don't necessarily have to entail physical violence. Guevara and Castro are not the only revolutionaries in the world you know.

Perhaps you should take a gander at legacies of Ghandi and Martin Luther King. You might learn something useful.

'He even know of plans to have us 300 Million Americans locked up in our own homes!'

No, no see, in your rush to make this a literal statement, you forgot to look into the metaphoric aspects.

See, you won't think you're in prison because you will be made to think that you are free.

Have you seen the film The Matrix? Remember how it describes a 'prison for your mind'? That's what I'm getting at...

And don't write me any garbage about how I said the Matrix is real, 'kay?

'He's also a constitutional Scholar'

Uh, actually as I've already explained to Robert, I'm NOT a Constitutional scholar.

See, the beauty of the Bill of Rights is that you don't have to be a scholar to understand them, they're really pretty bare bones. Now, the people that find the Bill of Rights a nuisance try and make them seem more complicated than they are, so they can parse and ultimately subvert them.

And the U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act goes along way to doing this.

Robert -

'Game as in "strategy" dimwit.'

No, I read your post, you meant game, as in 'to play a game'.

And to advocate playing games with other people's lives is something you should be ashamed of...

'If you were as smart as me...'

Y'know this is something other people tell you, not a label you apply to yourself. This is just flat-out arrogance, which seems to be par for the course for you.

'I would not want to get in a debate with you either.'

Yes, I know because I've pegged you as a callous hypocrite on several occasions, which is also why I'm getting this posturing from you now.

'PS, is "semantical" a word?'

www.dictionary.com

O'Reilly Rules -

'It's people like you who running around attacking our form of government that creates Fascism.'

Once again, I am not against the government but the corporate war criminals that have stolen it from us.

And fascism is created when governments and corporations collude to rule over the people. By not questioning your leaders and allowing them to do fuck-all, you, Internet Tough Guy, are creating fascism.

Sleep tight.

'Bush is far from a Fascist if anything he's a Socialist.'

I think even some of your adherents would have a problem with that statement.

But I'll bite: tell me, how is Bush a socialist?

'However by calling the gov Fascist one day a real Fascist movement will take power.'

Remember what I said about how saying something over and over will not make it true?

Same thing applies here, also.

'no one will listen to your ilk because you kept crying wolf!'

Whaaa--?

'I'm not a Bush supporter nor am I a hater.'

Riiiiight.

'The governmnet doesn't effect my life so who ever is in power, I don't care.'

Oh, really? So, which fantasy land do you hail from, then? Lilliput? OZ? Freedonia? Brigadoon, perhaps?

'I'll take Bush's Fascism'

Yes, you will like a good little lickspittle.

'He even psychoanalyzes us. A real Siegmund Freud!'

Alright! Now I'm Freud, too! And yes, I do psychoanalyze you, it's actually really easy as you guys are pretty transparent, especially Robert.

'He's a revolutionary who rivals Che Guevara in his struggle against the opressive Bush Crime Syndicate for our freedoms!'

As I said, revolts don't necessarily have to entail physical violence. Guevara and Castro are not the only revolutionaries in the world you know.

Perhaps you should take a gander at legacies of Ghandi and Martin Luther King. You might learn something useful.

'He even know of plans to have us 300 Million Americans locked up in our own homes!'

No, no see, in your rush to make this a literal statement, you forgot to look into the metaphoric aspects.

See, you won't think you're in prison because you will be made to think that you are free.

Have you seen the film The Matrix? Remember how it describes a 'prison for your mind'? That's what I'm getting at...

And don't write me any garbage about how I said the Matrix is real, 'kay?

'He's also a constitutional Scholar'

Uh, actually as I've already explained to Robert, I'm NOT a Constitutional scholar.

See, the beauty of the Bill of Rights is that you don't have to be a scholar to understand them, they're really pretty bare bones. Now, the people that find the Bill of Rights a nuisance try and make them seem more complicated than they are, so they can parse and ultimately subvert them.

And the U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act goes along way to doing this.

Jack Frost,
Here's my response to your great anaylictal interpretation:
'I'm not a Bush supporter nor am I a hater.'
Riiiiight.

I'm absolutely not. Bush is not tough enough on the Islamo-Fascists of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Hezzbollah, Hamas and Al Qaeda. He's not fighting a war to win but to prove a point. If he was serious, he would've mobilized the full resources of this nation as FDR did.
He would've implemented a program to become energy independent! The fact is he's fighting a half ass war!

'But I'll bite: tell me, how is Bush a socialist?'
Under Bush spending on social programs have gone up an average of 22% a year. Education has increase 40% since he came to power.
Government spending outside of defence is at an all time high! The expensive prescription Drug program. Frost that's socialism.

'The governmnet doesn't effect my life so who ever is in power, I don't care.'
Oh, really? So, which fantasy land do you hail from, then? Lilliput? OZ? Freedonia? Brigadoon, perhaps?

I make my own money pay my bills and live well!
What the government does has no bearing on my life.

And the U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act goes along way to doing this.
Explain this please?

Perhaps you should take a gander at legacies of Ghandi and Martin Luther King. You might learn something useful.

Now you're a Civil Rights leader?
What's your cause and how do you plan to change the government and when will you begin recruiting. What if there's a counter movement that regect your radical ideas!
Really I think you sufer from Delusions of grandeur!

'See, you won't think you're in prison because you will be made to think that you are free.'

Really that's why the Anti-Bush crowd dominates the media has protests and live to see another day. How mush Iranian money are all your leftists buddies recieving?
Go to the Fascists regimes of Iran and China and protest over there.
Then tell me about dictatorships!

'I'll take Bush's Fascism'
"Yes, you will like a good little lickspittle."

Compared with your Leftist paranoid agenda that'll lead towards Ruin, I would take Fascism, at least I can make money and won't down the road be forced to convert to Islam!

Robert Cox,
My conclusion about this guy is he's suffering from delusions of grandeur!He compares himself to Ghandi and Martin Luther King!

Definately a historic figure in the making!
What an honor!

Nonfactor wrote:

"so you want to know if I would oppose pre-emptive strike . . . I'm opposed to pre-emptive strike, period. I'm for hitting back a country with the full force of the American military if they attack us, nothing more, and nothing less. . . . Assuming diplomacy will fail is another dangerous thing."

As if on cue, we get this today:

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/14/D8GVSUC0H.html
Iran Leader: Israel Will Be Annihilated
Apr 14 12:34 PM US/Eastern
Email this story

By ALI AKBAR DAREINI
Associated Press Writer

TEHRAN, Iran

"The president of Iran again lashed out at Israel on Friday and said it was "heading toward annihilation," just days after Tehran raised fears about its nuclear activities by saying it successfully enriched uranium for the first time.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called Israel a "permanent threat" to the Middle East that will "soon" be liberated. He also appeared to again question whether the Holocaust really happened."

OKEY DOKEY! Only a complete idiot would be against preemptive strikes no matter what. You want to wait until a nuke kills you Nonfactor, I am all for it. Just do so where nobody else will get hurt. I know you have been saying "it is Israel's problem." It is not just their problem. It could just as easily be us.

KFk,
I wonder what the Plato of our times jack frost has to say about your post. I can't wait for his great wisdom!

Non-sequitor. Big time.

It couldn't just as easily be us. The President of Iran isn't responsible for military action if I've read correctly. A 3rd war in the Middle East is foolish because a diplomat threatens Israel.

Nonfactor, I hereby award you the Neville Chamberlain award for excellence in political thought. Congrats.

I award Jack Ghandi Frost the genuis of the last 2 Millieum award!

Hahahahaha, so Olbermannesque to cite the preliminary report. Why didn't he mention that a. this story's been out since '03, b. that there were THREE teams that went to check out the lab and TWO of them said it was bio-weapons lab, (and indeed, the entire third team may have not even agreed that the labs weren't for bio-weapons, as the FIRST report from the NYTimes on these findings in 03 said the third time was actually "sharply divided") and c. the joint DIA and CIA final report stood by the claims that they were for bio-weapons? These idiots keep finding instances where the majority of the intelligence community was wrong on something, while a few little reports or one agency or so digressed from the majority opinion. Bush should have went with the minority opinion, apparently. Is it really misleading of the Prez to go by the majority opinion of the IC? Ahhh, but beware... that's CHERRYPICKING, the worst liberal sin since HYPOCRISY and RELIGIOUS CONSERVATISM.

Keep exposing this maroon for what he is.

Why does everyone hate me! I only speak truth to power! When Hillary gets elected I'll go after her too! I'll expose her for the 2 time fraud she is.
I personally don't see Radical Islam as a threat, they just have beliefs that differ from ours. However the Christian Right is a threat. They want to impose their beliefs on us.
I'm not biased, I just speak the truth!

Keith,

I am glad you have finally starting posting comments under your own name. Time to come out of the shadows!

I wrote a post on The National Debate about a blog-exchange that took place in relation to this site. It was more a TND issue than a Olby issue so I posted it there but am giving a heads up over here bceause it is about THIS post.

Why Can't Legacy Media Just Admit a Mistake?

Robert,
It was a joke!

What?

You mean KO is not really posting comments here under his own name?

Oh, darn.

Actually, when you look into the fact that Iran (like Iraq, Syria, the UAE and Venezuela) has been looking into dumping the dollar as acceptable currency to pay for oil, you get closer to the heart of the whole Iran matter. Their nuclear program (which Cheney foisted on them during Ford's Administration) has very little to do with our current aggression.

That's why none of it makes any sense.

The debate is being framed as one of 'terrorism' when in fact it's simple economics. The Dubai port sale was probably an effort to keep the UAE interested in dollars by giving them US assets as incentive.

We have so much debt ($9 trillion at last admission), the dollar is virtually worthless and the criminal oilmen running this show are willing to start wars of aggression (paid for with OUR money not theirs) just to prop it up.

We're being completely misled on why we're interested in attacking Iran. We're attempting to bully them into accepting our worthless paper in exchange for valuable petroleum.

Frost,
You live in a fantasy world. Iran is a real threat!
They have vowed to wipe Israel off the map and their president Admittedjerk, whom I sure you admire, believes that Iran must lead the Islamic world in an apocolytic battle aginst the west so his imaginary freind the 12th Iman appears in Human form.
I just can't believe the hatred you have against your own country that you sympathize with Religious Fascist thugs!
Do us a favor if they such a great society why don't you go move there!
I'll take 20 Million Mexican over Terrorist sympathizers any day of the week.

It's official everyone, Jack Fraud is an Islamo-Fascist sympathizer!

Jack Frost is a delusional Racist who thinks he's the new Ghandi!

O'Reilly Rules -

'Iran is a real threat!'

You're right, they are.

But not on any nuclear level. Iran is seriously going to hurt the dollar when they decide not to accept it as payment.

So we'll threaten them with nukes if they won't take our worthless paper. But, for all the viewers at home, that would cause a panic - so the twin prongs of 'Peak Oil' and 'Iran's Nuclear ambition' are being trotted out before you to blind you to the real issue:

The dollar is collapsing worldwide.

Sleep tight.

'They have vowed to wipe Israel off the map and their president Admittedjerk, whom I sure you admire'

Yeah, I lovelovelove guys that spout off threats that they have no power to back, like Iran's president.

Must be why I still answer your posts.

'I just can't believe the hatred you have against your own country that you sympathize with Religious Fascist thugs!'

I still can't believe you're attempting to make this stick when it's abundantly clear that it's a baseless allegation.

Iran is not the threat being sold to you on TV (just like Iraq) you should really re-think buying this time.

'Do us a favor if they such a great society why don't you go move there!'

I don't know much about their society, so I'm not sure how qualified I'd be to say that their society is 'better' than ours, but...

Oh, wait, that's just another baseless attack on my character, huh?

Oh, Internet Tough Guy, if only you'd ever learn something about the people you attack, maybe then your blather will actually have some substance.

Or at the very least not be so repetative...

Jack Frost,
You're so quick to criticise our country and defend terrorist. What if God Forbi! By some curse your movement takes power, how would you govern differently? Come sell us the merits of your glorious revolution, Che wannabe!

Cox,
Can you allow me to set up a Jack Frost bashing thread? That way me and others can just have a thread dedicated to bashing the great Intellect of ou time!

Frosty,
I'm still waiting on what your phoney revolutionary movement would do if it seizes power?

Why shoot a fly with a bazooka?

I love this line from Jack:

"We have so much debt ($9 trillion at last admission), the dollar is virtually worthless and the criminal oilmen running this show are willing to start wars of aggression (paid for with OUR money not theirs) just to prop it up."

Where'd you can your degree in economics? The Che Guevera Institute for Remedial Studies?

As a former foreign exchange trader and someone with a graduate degree in economics from a real school let me educate you on how currency markets work.

You wrote "the dollar is worthless because we have "so much" debt?

The "value" of the dollar by which you mean the exchange rate of the dollar is not determined by the amount of U.S. debt but rather by interest rates in the U.S. and those "riskless" rates compared to interest rates elsewhere in the world. (note: investments in the U.S. are considered to be riskless in the world of finance for a variety of reasons which will likely escape your marxist-muddled mind).

Now, you could argue that as the debt reaches a certain level investments in the U.S. are no longer seen as riskless but in that case there would be a risk premium factored into U.S. interest rates. The facts remain the same - exchange rates are a function of cross-border interest rates.

Iran is going to stop "accepting" dollars?

Hoo boy! Let's say that Iran announced they would only accept payment for oil in Euros. How do you imagine that would devalue the U.S. Dollar?

Answer: it wouldn't have any bearing on the value of a dollar.

Let's imagine your fantasy world where an owner of a gas station backs up a VLCC to an oil spigot in the Straits of Hormuz to purchase a few gallons of oil. He shows up with dollars but it told he can only pay in Euros. What does he do? He goes to a currency exchange and he sells his dollars and buys Euros. I guess according to you this means the value of the dollar goes down because he is SELLING dollars and BUYING Euros. Of course, that's nonsense because the guy at the currency exchange is BUYING dollars and SELLING Euros. Both of them are looking at the same thing, the "spot" USD-EUR exchange rate. Again, that rate is a function of interest rates in the U.S. and Europe. The only thing that has happened is that the frictional cost of buying Iranian oil has increased and so that gas station owner is going to take his ship elsewhere decreasing demand; the price of Iranian oil drops until the cost of the oil plus the "vig" on the currency transaction are absord into one total price that is identical to the price of oil on the world market. This is how markets work dopey!

Of course even this example does not apply because oil is sold through oil brokers all over the world and not out of the backs of trucks. The price is set in world markets like London and New York. When you hear on TV that the price of oil closed at $70 a barrel what do you think that means? In the U.S. it means they are talking about the last traded price for West Texas Intermediate crude oil futures at the New York Mercantile Exchange. I don't think much of your background in economics but maybe you saw Trading Places with Dan Akroyd and Eddie Murphy? Just replace frozen orange juice contracts with oil contracts and you get the idea.

Now, who do you think are some of the biggest players at the NYMEX? Duh! The oil producing nations because they are "natural sellers" of oil - and that includes Iran. They have to be in that market. I know 9 trillion seems like a lot to you but there are trillions of dollars worth of oil futures and options contracts bought and sold on the NYMEX, Iran sells a tiny fraction's worth of that amount so even if they could "announce" they were no longer taking dollars no one would give a damn. They'd be trampled over just like the Duke Brothers.

Your move, Winthorpe

Robert -

'As a former foreign exchange trader and someone with a graduate degree in economics from a real school let me educate you on how currency markets work.'

Is there any occupation you haven't formerly held? You claim you've had a lot of former jobs that give you vast experience to explain all matters.

'Now, you could argue that as the debt reaches a certain level investments in the U.S. are no longer seen as riskless...'

BINGO!

See, you aren't completely off-base with your convoluted explanation of how markets should work (but don't really). You obviously see one of the problems occurring this very moment, but rather than exploring it, you attempt to explain it away with a litany of jargon.

Just so you know, I've heard your explanation several times, from different people, and the only difference here it seems is that I can't see or hear you. Generally, when I get this explanation from someone who claims to be an 'expert', their vocal tonality and body language are that of a person trying desperatly to get someone, anyone to buy their line.

As I said, we are being given cover stories for the decline of the dollar, that markets are functioning fine is just one of them.

'(note: investments in the U.S. are considered to be riskless in the world of finance for a variety of reasons which will likely escape your marxist-muddled mind).'

Not anymore they're not riskless.

'Answer: it wouldn't have any bearing on the value of a dollar.'

So you don't think that having the accepted currency for oil shift to the Euro wouldn't affect the dollar at all?

I'm sorry, but who did you say was being naive about markets again?

C'mon, man, this shift to the Euro is the part of the real reason we invaded Iraq and are going to invade Iran. 'Terrorism' and 'nuclear threats' are window dressing to keep you from seeing the dollar's worldwide decline. A massive distraction campaign to avoid telling of the truly real panic of a US economic failure that would rival the Great Depression.

'Let's imagine your fantasy world where an owner of a gas station backs up a VLCC to an oil spigot in the Straits of Hormuz to purchase a few gallons of oil.'

Nothing like a good straw man argument to prove your point, eh? Always a solid avenue.

Well, until someone calls you on it, that is.

'The price is set in world markets like London and New York.'

Not for long.

'Iran sells a tiny fraction's worth of that amount so even if they could "announce" they were no longer taking dollars no one would give a damn.'

Considering that we're contemplating nuclear strikes, I think someone gives a damn. And the threat may have worked, too. Since Iran was supposed to open it's own oil bourse (which is why the markets in London and NYC won't matter, see?) at the end of March, but has apparently has postponed doing this.

The opening of the Iranian oil bourse (if it happens and Iran isn't nuked) will begin the 'last throes' of the dollar as a dominant currency.

If Iran is nuked, well, then it's World War III and not much of any of this will matter anymore.

Sleep tight!

Jack,

You write "I've heard your explanation several times, from different people, and the only difference here it seems is that I can't see or hear you."

Why do I suspect that you have lots of conversations with people that others can't see or hear?

The Iranian bourse? Cover stories for the decline of the dollar? this shift to the Euro is the part of the real reason we invaded Iraq and are going to invade Iran? 'Terrorism' and 'nuclear threats' are window dressing to keep you from seeing the dollar's worldwide decline? World War III?

You're seeing a whole TEAM of pyschiatrists, right?

Robert,
Jack Frost is very delusional, he cliams he the leader of a non violent revolutionary movement on the verge of seizing power. A cross between Che Guevara and Ghandi!
He's now claiming to be an economist!
He's defiantely pro Iranian, thinking that they're powerful enough to start WW3 and determine the value of the dollar!
Obviously a mentally deranged person.

Robert -

No amount of ridicule is going to change what I've described here. I'd recommend doing some research on what I've brought up before discounting it, but, hey, be ignorant if you desire. I mean, the fact that you haven't even heard of the Iranian oil bourse shows you haven't even made a cursory google search. That's substandard research, yes, but at least it's something.

You can get on your high horse and scoff all you want, you can claim I'm 'crazy' all you want, but burying your head will not make this go away.

But by all means, dismiss what I say, if that makes you happy. Because when the house is on fire, ignoring the smoke is always the best course of action.

Sleep tight!

Frost,
What's your movement's governing program?
Answer this because you're so quick to crticize but you bring nothing to the table.
Wise up and stop repeating your stupid Marxist conspiracy lies.

Frost

'Sleep tight!'
You're the one with sleepeing problems. You think that thre's Black Helicopters and unmarked cars out to get you! You suffer from parania.
In other words, you're an a--hole!

This comment thread is now closed.