The interview with Al Whore was brilliant. I loved the responses to the questions, which I am surprised Geef asked, by Gore stating that all dissenters to Gore's opinion were paid by the polluters . . . as opposed to the ones who support his opinion which receive grants from the Feds, states, NGOs, and intergovernmental bodies to find problems for which they can receive additional grants to study and "cure". So, that was balanced. Great follow-up on the ad hominem by Gore Geef. Your journalism is breathtaking in its greatness. Since this board it about Geef's stupidity, my opinion on the merits of global warming are not implied by my criticism of his sloppy reportage.

I also loved the fawning, drooling question about how there were people who wanted him to run / wish he had won in 2000. Please be more emotionally involved in the story, Geef. I hate unbiased journalists / interviewers.

You also have to admire his a priori conclusion that anything that suggests the administration might have done something correct is suggestive of insidious intent by the administration to deflect its "corrupt, illegal, incompetent" (can some fruit cake leftie correct my rendition of the current slogan; the three word phrase slogan changes so I am not sure if this is the most current) history.

Olbermann said:

>Given how upbeat the President was last week after Zarqawi was eliminated, how self-congratulatory his supporters were...did the kidnapping just burst that Iraq optimism bubble of last week?

This sentence really says it all about Krazy Keith. It's not about the soldiers. It's not about security or freedom. All he cares about is his petty, sick, invented vendetta against the President of the United States. Again I am mystified by MSLSD for giving him a forum.

To say the death of Zarqawi merely resulted in "self-congratulatory [Bush] supporters" when we have guys fighting and dying over there because of these terrorists is absurd. It was a triumph for our military and innocent Iraqis. You know, our soldiers, Keith, those annoying red-staters that you hate so much, two of whom were recently kidnapped and are being tortured RIGHT NOW.

But of course the guys from Olbermann's country, the guys who were kidnapped and are going through Hell right now, are only useful because they "burst that Iraq optimism bubble."

Olbermann is a sick freak and does not deserve to live among civilized people. If I could, I would ship Olbermann to Saudi Arabia and let him do his snarky pathetic show from there.

Olbermann, you are a disgrace.

Having spoken with more than a few soldiers, some just back from Iraq, it is amazing how many of them are familiar with Krazy Keith and they are appalled by the things he says. It truely infuriates them when he pretends to be in support of them.

I saw bit`s of Khaled Al-Ulbermon's Al Qaeda support show. He seemed glad that 2 troops were kidnapped by his Jihadi compatriots. It was sickening. Denik-Al Milbank his fellow Jihadi also seemed thrill about the troop kidnapping.
I wish these 2 Islamo-Fascists would suffer the fate as their leader Zarqawi!
Notice the Jihadi's lack of responce to Drudge. He knows Drudge has dirt on his recent conversion to Wahhabi Islam and his ties to Al-Qaeda. I wish Keith would to his 72 Virgins and leave us alone!

Does anyone ever send these comments to MSNBC powers that be? They are brilliant!

Sophia,

Pretty much everyone at MSNBC reads OlbermannWatch several times a day including all the top executives and Keith himself. The only people over there who were not reading OlbyWatch daily were Connie Chung and Rick Kaplan. Kaplan was fired and Chung lost her mind and is now rocking back and forth on the floor of the green room at the Maury Show.

I hope Al-Ulbermonn get's placed on the government's terrorist watch list!

Bushies aren't going to be concerned about global warming, no matter what happens even to their own in the future. They have CHRIST on their side. And Iraq? OIL is what it's all about, for Christ's sake. No way is this incompetent administration going to admit that they were wrong. Oh, perhaps misinformed by the evil CIA, which they ran -- certainly they never LIED to the American people, or to the world. Don't you get it? Are Bush and Rove evil? Or is the co-pres, Cheney? Impossible, they are such good Christians, killing people, going onto war. Or could they be just plain stupid, incompetent jerks responsible for killing thousands of people in the name of promoting democracy over there as they try to curtail it over here? And you right-meaners can't bear to hear the truth no matter how much this administration's policies are hurting your own families financially, unless you're a CEO with one of the oil companies. Try realitiy for a change, it's not that bad, except that you must acknowledge what fools you've been to follow this right-mean administration like Rovian Robots.

Don't forget the junior cleric, Muqtada al-Stelter at TVNewser. Speaking ill of Sheik Olbermann, as Lloyd Grove found out, will subject you to jihad on the child's site.

Connie Chung should have been carried away strapped to a gurney with one of those muzzles a la Hannibal Lecter. I hope she enjoys the rubber room.

Needless to say, Bob Hope would not have been amused.

Wow, I can almost feel the hatred oozing from all the right-wingers on this site. When they're not accusing someone they don't agree with of being a terrorist they're injecting themselves with a holier-than-thou false sense of patriotism. You kind of have to feel sorry for them.

Rut ro

Dan Abrams on 2-nite with (dumber than a suitcase full of bricks) Rita Cosby

Good thing Opie doesn't report to Dan - Opie reports to no one

Wonder if when Abrams ticks him off - he tells Dan to kill himself

Wonder also why he didn't hit Andrea Mitchell with the "Jesus, given how far you are from knowing your a** from your elbow about my industry, you couldn't be stupider, wronger, or dumber, if you were Ann Coulter's c***"

Opie setting the ethical standards for NBC News

Opieisms to last a lifetime

Rove, Cheney,Rumsfeld, Bush, onward Christian soldiers, something they've never been, kill those civilians in Iraq. Holy, holy, oily, oil, oil, oil!

You bleeped ass? They can even say that on 7th Heaven.

Nonfactor writes:

>When they're not accusing someone they don't agree with of being a terrorist they're injecting themselves with a holier-than-thou false sense of patriotism.

I have news for you. My concern for our troops, innocent people, and victory in Iraq is not "false patriotism." It is more genuine than you could ever understand.

Your problem, Nonfactor, is that you live in a fantasy world. You don't comprehend what the troops and the innocent Iraqis go through. You are so caught up in your sick, self-indulgent political game that you are unable to see the need to support our troops, complete the mission, and establish a stable Government in Iraq. The soldiers are pawns to you clowns. No wonder you think all of us display "false patriotism."

The concept of patriotism is completely foreign to you. (I'm sure you are getting ready to fire back a strongly-worded declaration of your patriotic nature -- save it for someone dumb enough to believe it.)

Here's one for you. Put yourself in the shoes of the two kids in the hands of crazed terrorists tonight, and then repeat the phrase "did the kidnapping just burst that Iraq optimism bubble." Repeat it as you imagine what is happening to these civilized young soldiers in the hands of blood-thirsty madmen. If I could trade you for them I would.

Jill Perry,
Once again Leftists like you you attack our government are nothing more than Islamo-Fascist allies.
Why don't you condemn Al-Qaeda, Hezzbollah and Hams?
I'm sorry your hero Zarqawi died!

"Bushies aren't going to be concerned about global warming... They have CHRIST on their side. And Iraq? OIL...Oh, perhaps misinformed by the evil CIA, which they ran etc... "

Pal - be careful, Opie CAN buy you and sell you

Olby remarks upon how “convenient” it is that the Zarqawi documents say explicitly that the insurgency is losing.
Maybe those documents were planted by Bill Burkett or even Mary Mapes. Krazy should lead the investigation.

Jill, please take this test:

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sztest/survey2.php

Keep this in mind Jill:

Delusions are some the most common of the schizophrenia symptoms. Delusions are ideas that you may believe in fervently but actually have no basis in fact. Some people with schizophrenia symptoms hold a single delusion, that seems to dominate their life, while others have many delusions. Delusions of persecution are the most common. People with these types of delusions usually feel that they're being plotted or discriminated against, spied on, threatened, attacked or deliberately victimized.

Bob Hope would not have been amused with Bush's phony war and the death of 2500 kids and the wounds of 20,000 or is it 40,000 who will never have a whole body again? Hope, like John Murhta, loved those kids who were in the US military. Bush could still have one of his daughters, one of his nephews or neices step up to the plate and volunteer to go to Iraq. I hear they are offering to 17 year olds a $40,000 signing bonus. Just so the CEO can add another $4mil to his signing bonus. And Cheney -- what can we say about a man who is rolling in blood money. Hurray!

Why do you Leftists side with Islamo-Fascists against you own nation.
You all should go live in Iran or Saudi Arabia and convert to that suicide cult!

More genuine than I can understand? Pray tell me how you would know that. I'm already getting the sense that you like to place yourself up on a pedestal of "Support our Troops" bumper stickers and Apple Pie.

No, KfK, I'm not in a fantasy world. I am able to separate the political atmosphere here at home from the situation on the ground. I can believe that the war in Iraq was wrong while praying no U.S. soldiers or innocent civilians are killed. If that's a fantasy world I can bet you I'm here with around 3 billion others.

The soldiers are pawns to us "clowns"? Who is the one using the United States military as a political tool? It sure isn't the Democrats, and I'll give you one guess--he's the chief executive. To accuse me or any other Democrat of wanting to use the troops for political gain is slander; Democrats didn't send troops to Iraq, Democrats didn't have the political goal to change the Middle East through force, and Democrats sure as hell don't want our troops "staying the course" in Iraq where a few are killed or captured every single day. No, KfK, your false patriotism doesn't stem from your hatred of all things liberal, but it's rooted far deeper. You wave the support-the-president banner without question, and it is not patriotic to blindly follow a corrupt administration who has led us into an unjust war in Iraq on knowingly false information, unless you liked when American was under the rule of England.

I'm sure you support the troops, and freedom, and baseball, and Ford cars as much as I do, I'll even put you on the top of the statue and say you support all the things more (after all you aren't dumb enough to believe I can be a patriot), but waving a flag, and shopping after a terrorist attack doesn't make you patriotic.

Place myself in someone else's shoes? Sure thing. It would be hell to be in the hands of terrorists/insurgents in Iraq, and I sympathize for all the innocent people over there, but as I said before, I can separate the political world from the situational world, and I know that being kidnapped in Iraq is horrible, but I also know that the kidnapping did break an ignorant bubble of optimism.

And as long as we're playing role-play, KfK, can you place yourself in the shoes of a young mother working two jobs to support her two children and getting a welfare check each month while people earning over $200,000 a year in Washington D.C. debate the necessity of such a program? What about the shoes of a pregnant 17-year-old girl who's about to make an emotional decision that will affect the rest of her life while politicians get ready to call her a murderer? What about in the shoes of a 12-year-old Iraqi boy who wants revenge after seeing his mother, father, and two younger sisters die because his house was bombed? What about in the shoes of a Mexican man who wants to come to the United States and work to give his family a better life? In the shoes of a gay young man who has just been beaten by men who believe him to be a sinner, while those who run the country think alike.

As you can see all these situations, all though profound, are not separate from the political world. I'm sure you can recognize the position of a pregnant teen while at the same time calling abortion a crime and not bat an eyelash. Don't accuse me of being ruthless because you think I don't care about two kidnapped troops, and though you may wish I were in the hands of terrorists because I share a different belief than you on certain issues, realize that emotions and politics can sometimes be separated, especially on a news show.

"Rove, Cheney,Rumsfeld, Bush, onward Christian soldiers, something they've never been, kill those civilians in Iraq. Holy, holy, oily, oil, oil, oil!"

That's one of the most coherent explications of the leftist position I have heard since Christopher Lasch was at his prime. Have you thought about writing a book about your opinion of the leftist agenda which further expresses your balanced, reasoned positions in logical manner?

Nonfactor,

'can you place yourself in the shoes of a young mother working two jobs to support her two children and getting a welfare check each month while people earning over $200,000 a year in Washington D.C. debate the necessity of such a program?'

Where in the US constitution says trhat tax payers have to support people?
No where!

'What about the shoes of a pregnant 17-year-old girl who's about to make an emotional decision that will affect the rest of her life while politicians get ready to call her a murderer?'

That's why I support contraceptives and abortions. She should've used a condom and should get an abortion. Other than that not my problem.

'What about in the shoes of a 12-year-old Iraqi boy who wants revenge after seeing his mother, father, and two younger sisters die because his house was bombed? .

That 12 year old should be killed too! One less suicide bomber!

Hey Nonfactor,

How about an Isreali mother who loses her son in a suicide bombing while eating pizza?
How about an elderly French man robbed and killed by Islmaic thugs on French streets in a town his family has lived for centuries?

Once again thge Left defends losers and Islam!

Nonfactor,

'can you place yourself in the shoes of a young mother working two jobs to support her two children and getting a welfare check each month while people earning over $200,000 a year in Washington D.C. debate the necessity of such a program?'

Where in the US constitution says trhat tax payers have to support people?
No where!

'What about the shoes of a pregnant 17-year-old girl who's about to make an emotional decision that will affect the rest of her life while politicians get ready to call her a murderer?'

That's why I support contraceptives and abortions. She should've used a condom and should get an abortion. Other than that not my problem.

'What about in the shoes of a 12-year-old Iraqi boy who wants revenge after seeing his mother, father, and two younger sisters die because his house was bombed? .

That 12 year old should be killed too! One less suicide bomber!

Hey Nonfactor,

How about an Isreali mother who loses her son in a suicide bombing while eating pizza?
How about an elderly French man robbed and killed by Islmic thugs on French streets in a town his family has lived for centuries?

Once again thge Left defends losers and Islam!

Although I shouldn't respond to someone with such an abhorrent tag name, despite my better judgment I will.

I do think you've missed my overall point. I brought up the role-play scenarios because KfK wanted to, and you've misinterpreted the meaning I listed the situations. My point was that the political world can sometimes be separated from emotion (whether good or bad), and just like Olbermann can ask a question if the kidnappings burst a bubble of optimism, you can state that welfare is unnecessary.

OiaJ, I don't see how you extracted from my post, in any way shape or form, that I defend "losers and Islam," but I'll grant it to you that you are 50% correct. I do defend the religion of Islam, just as I defend the religion of Christianity or any other belief system; I think that all peoples should be entitled to the free exercise of religion. The situations you present, OiaJ, are meaningless, sure I can place myself in the position of the two people you mention, but what's your point?

Nonfactor,
That Islam is a genocidal cult that can'y live in peace with it's neighbors. It's founder Muhhamed was a pedophile that married a 9 year old name Aisha. He commited Genocide against a Meccan Jewish tribe. He led the foundation of the genocidal Caliphate that killed 20-30 Million Greek and Latins Christians. Of course you guys on the Left harp about the crusades but never mention the Jihad of the 7th century.
Hey what about the runor that Olbermann has converted to Islam?

Nonfactor,
That Islam is a genocidal cult that can't live in peace with it's neighbors. It's founder Muhhamed was a pedophile that married a 9 year old name Aisha. He commited Genocide against a Meccan Jewish tribe. He led the foundation of the genocidal Caliphate that killed 20-30 Million Greek and Latins Christians. Of course you guys on the Left harp about the crusades but never mention the Jihad of the 7th century.
Hey what about the runor that Olbermann has converted to Islam?

To all Anti-Isalamo Facists.
I'm about to leave for Saudi Arabia and convert to a suicide cult. But maybe not -- WOW WHAT FUN. Now that I've become an Islao Facist -- I've come to realise that my new eader is non other than that cool hearted spinster, slender "virgin" Ann Coulter, who is such a wonderful represenative of what it means to be a Bush/Cheny republican Chrisian. This is a lady who would have giggled watching children die in the gas chambers.

To all Anti-Isalamo Facists.
I'm about to leave for Saudi Arabia and convert to a suicide cult. But maybe not -- WOW WHAT FUN. Now that I've become an Islao Facist -- I've come to realise that my new eader is non other than that cool hearted spinster, slender "virgin" Ann Coulter, who is such a wonderful represenative of what it means to be a Bush/Cheny republican Chrisian. This is a lady who would have giggled watching children die in the gas chambers.

Nonfactor writes:

>Democrats didn't send troops to Iraq

BULLSHIT! The Democrats voted for the war. They were on board. Don't give me "Bush lied." Everyone had the same intelligence material. Saddam had uranium at his nuke site. The abdication of responsibility for the war got your pal Kerry a sideline seat at the Presidential election. He "voted for it before he voted against it." Nice try. The disgusting monster Hillary Clinton (D-NY) STILL supports the effort (despite her desire not to).

>waving a flag, and shopping after a terrorist attack doesn't make you patriotic.

You presumptuous ass. How do you know what I do?

>I can separate the political world from the situational world

No. You can separate the REAL WORLD from your FANTASY WORLD where actions have no consequences and anything goes even if it hurts the war effort and gets people killed. Nice rationalization.

As far as this nonsense:

>KfK, can you place yourself in the shoes of a young mother who's about to make an emotional decision that will affect the rest of her life about a 12-year-old Iraqi boy who wants revenge after seeing his mother, father, and two younger sisters die because his house was bombed working two jobs to support her two children and getting a welfare check each month while the shoes of a Mexican man who wants to come to the United States and work to give his family a better life are in her closet with a gay young man who has just been beaten by men who believe him to be a sinner. . .

That is the biggest load of holier-than-thou liberal guilt-tossing bullshit in the history of mankind. Just scream "I care so much" at the top of your lungs you pathetic weasel. What the Hell do these things have to do with Iraq? I'll tell you. They have NOTHING to do with Iraq you mental patient.

To all Anti-Isalamo Facists.
I'm about to leave for Saudi Arabia and convert to a suicide cult. But maybe not -- WOW WHAT FUN. Now that I've become an Islao Facist -- I've come to realise that my new eader is non other than that cool hearted spinster, slender "virgin" Ann Coulter, who is such a wonderful represenative of what it means to be a Bush/Cheny republican Chrisian. This is a lady who would have giggled watching children die in the gas chambers.

Jill Perry,
I really hope you do go to Iran and Saudi Arabia that way you can discover how women are treated by that peaceful cult called Islam.

"Democrats didn't have the political goal to change the Middle East through force, and Democrats sure as hell don't want our troops "staying the course" in Iraq where a few are killed or captured every single day."

The UN Security Council passed 17 resolutions requiring Hussein to disarm and to prove he had disarmed or condemning him for not complying with prior resolutions. Over the interval from the passage of the first to the passage of the last resolution, Hussein consistently obfuscated evidence or obstructed / ejected inspectors. All fact; all undisputable.

On Sept. 11th, terrorists struck the US. One nation harbored terrorists (Afghanistan). We attacked the country in the hope of acquiring bin Laden and bringing stability to a country, the chaos of which resulted in a safehaven to plan and execute terrorist attacks.

Another country (Iraq) was suspected of maintaining a chemical, biological, and nuclear program (evidenced by the products of this program being used in the Iran-Iraq War and against the Kurds). Iraq had consistently been required to prove it had discontinued the program and rid itself of its stocks of chemical weapons. Moreover, it was thought (and intelligence since has confirmed) that the organization that carried out the 9/11 attacks wanted to acquire chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons for the execution of another terror attack on the US. The US supported (at the behest of Britain) a final resolution issued by the Security Council, which under force of serious consequences and the Chapter authorizing use of force, required Iraq to prove disarmament and elmination of the program. It even set a date for compliance. Iraq refused to comply by the date the Security Council set for disarmament. Proving that the 17 resolutions were not hollow resolutions--in other words, when the Security Council says disarm, you disarm--the US (with allies) invaded Iraq.

You're right it was political.

We should all hope that Jill takes the "are you a schizophrenic" test I linked to above, gets her results, and takes them seriously. She needs help.

Jill,
"This is a lady who would have giggled watching children die in the gas chambers."

Ann Coulter like most on the Right is a supporter of the state of Israel. Unlike you Leftists that giggle when innocent Israeli children die at the hands of Islamo-Fascists!

BULLSHIT!

I think my point went over your head. You accused me and other Democrats using troops as pawns, do you admit that Republicans have truly used the troops as pawns in the Middle East or are you going to avoid that subject? Democrats did vote for the war, true, a vote most of them now regret, but the ultimate decision to send the United States military rests in the hands of the Commander-in-Chief. The intelligence was not the same, unless you seriously believe that the President gets the same information as the entire Senate and House of Representatives. Collin Powell has even admitted now that the information he gave the U.N. was knowingly false. I'm sure if Congress knew the administration was fudging the truth votes would have changed.

You presumptuous ass. How do you know what I do?

I don't, it was a prediction. Was I right? Anyways, it doesn't matter, allow me to quote a paragraph from your previous post: Your problem, Nonfactor, is that you live in a fantasy world. You don't comprehend what the troops and the innocent Iraqis go through. You are so caught up in your sick, self-indulgent political game that you are unable to see the need to support our troops, complete the mission, and establish a stable Government in Iraq. The soldiers are pawns to you clowns. No wonder you think all of us display "false patriotism." You presumptuous ass. How do you know what I do? Funny right?

No. You can separate the REAL WORLD from your FANTASY WORLD. . .

Let me get this straight. Are you saying that the political world is the fantasy world or that the political world doesn�t even exist? How do you pull out the �actions don�t have consequences� line when I was talking about modern day politics? When have I ever stated that actions should have consequences or that �anything goes�? That�s right, never.

That is the biggest load of holier-than-thou liberal guilt-tossing bullshit in the history of mankind.

Aside from me already using the phrase �holier-than-thou� to describe your attitude towards the U.S. troops I�ll take a stab at this one. You completely and totally missed the point I was making. You started with the role-play and I added on, stating new situations because I wanted to see your opinion on them. Again, I will state the point I was making when bringing up those situations: My point was that the political world can sometimes be separated from emotional (whether good or bad), and just like Olbermann can ask a question if the kidnappings burst a bubble of optimism, you can state that welfare is unnecessary. The examples were attempting to show you that the question Olbermann asked doesn�t mean that he cares nothing for the troops (which is a stupid accusation in and of itself).

P.S. KfK, I honeslty smiled a little bit after reading your insult-filled rant at the end of your post. Now I�ve been called a �pathetic weasel� and a �mental patient� for asking you a few hypothetical questions.

Hey Johnny Dollar, can you dispense with the "click to install ActiveX control on the homepage? While you're at it, can you put some code on the POST button that freezes the button until the post has been sent. The triple posts here are wearing out my scroll wheel.

Wow. It's okay to ridicule widows, mothers because they don't support Cheney's War. Is Ann C Jewish? i don't think so. Is Ann C. supportive of Israe; over Isalamo Facists? Whomever they may be. Hamas, perhaps? She says she wants US troops to kill all those who don't agree with her religion) (Bush, Falwell and yoiu know the drill. (Supposeldy she's a christian who goes to church in NYC -- but they've never seen Ann, don't know her.) She's such a Chrisian she adovocates fragging John Murhta. "Just a joke." And may she die laughing.

Jill,
Ann Coulter has been pro-Israel. You avoid the point I'm making is that you Leftists are allied with Islamo-Fascists. Those 4 widows are nothing more than media whores. They're jIhadi supporters!

So Ann Coulter is a supporter of Israel. Who would have known. She comes from New Canaan, CT. where they had for years, probably to this day, a gentleman's ageement, NO JEWS ALLOWED. Certainly she has showed herself as a true representative of Bush and the GOP of what it means to be a Republican in the the land of the FREE and Home of the OIL

what does the town where she comes from has to do with her Pro-Israel views?
It's you leftists that root for the Islamo-Fascists against Israel.

"Home of the OIL"

Is that the oil that Bush was trying to acquire for his cronies? Or the oil he allowed to slip away by not guarding the Oil Ministry and the pipelines after the invasion? In other words, was he incompetent for not denuding the countryside of oil? Or was incompetent because he secured the oil for this cronies by invading Iraq? Lefties respond with both; which is it?

Sorry escape, I have no control over any of that. You'll have to take that up with Mr Cox. I only write about the nightly smears, slanders, and lies of the infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann, a subject so many of the posters go out of their way to avoid discussing.

My gosh, we're Americans -- but the attacks on people's views are so childish. I'm mentally ill because I don;t think that Bush had the right to start a premptive war. Ann Coulter is right to attack the motives of widows of 9/11 because they don't support Bush. And our boys and girls are losing limbs, dying over there because of a preemptive war. Right? I took such pride always that the US of A didnt' start WARS. We were that lighthouse on the hill My pride has been diminshed. And now it is time to -- OH CHRIST, if these incomptents contiue with the complicitity of the press.. Rudolph Murdock is your next leader, one way or he other.

"I'm mentally ill because I don;t think that Bush had the right to start a premptive war."

I don't think you're mentally ill because of your position on the Iraq War. I think you are foolish. We're are not a City on a Hill because we don't start war. We are a City on a Hill because we protect the broadest amount of freedom possible.

Technically, the US started the war with the Confederacy, which had left the Union. The US tried to move troops through Virginia, which was a member of another sovereign country in that it swore allegiance to another country, to quell the "rebellion" in South Carolina. Virginia responded by trying to prevent an invasion from another country. Was the US correct to invade Virginia? On a separate tack, were the colonists justified in attacking the British or preventing them from moving freely within the country?

The irreducible minimum on which we cannot agree is the idea that war must always be avoided. When one nation seeks to flout the will of the world, it should be defanged. Either the US allows chaos to grow by watching it not be enforced or it creates the conditions for its destruction. As Machiavelli states, "One should never allow chaos to develop in order to avoid going to war, because one does not avoid a war but instead puts it off to his disadvantage"

By the way, the City on a Hill reference was developed by a bunch of right wing conservatives--the Puritans. To be somewhat reductive, their goal was to show the wicked, corrupt English that a society based upon conservative religious principles could be founded. Being an agnostic, I find that a tad difficult to swallow as a goal, but if you liberals want it, why not?

Here's the point. People are dying. Nice people. People who love their children. People who want their children to grow up, maybe aspie to go to te World Cup? Children being killed. And Mr. Bush wants to stay the course to kill more children. Why? How does this protect our country?

Here's the point. People are dying. Nice people. People who love their children. People who want their children to grow up, maybe aspie to go to te World Cup? Children being killed. And Mr. Bush wants to stay the course to kill more children. Why? How does this protect our country?

" People who want their children to grow up, maybe aspie to go to te World Cup? Children being killed. And Mr. Bush wants to stay the course to kill more children."

Better their kids than ours!

Dumbass Anon,

His name is Rupert Murdoch and he recently hosted a fundraiser for the devil, herself, Hillary Clinton. You are mentally ill, because you equate conservatives with religion and all Republicans to Evangelical Christians. Only something like 10% of Republicans consider themselves evangelicals. I approach religion like Christopher Hitchens (anti-theism).

Your a moron because you don't understand how someone can be an atheist and still be pro-life.

Your a moron because you are so adamantly opposed to Christian fundamentalism, but are silent when it comes to the Muslim fundamentalists who create an oppressive culture reminiscent of the Dark Ages. I guess women's rights apply to all women except muslim women.

Your a moron because you speak of the women and children being killed by our troops as if you really give a shit. Where was your outrage when Prime Minister Blair reported in 2004 that we had found over 400,000 in mass graves?

Your a moron because your heroes are ones who are always wrong. E.G. Reagan would start WWIII. Tax cuts only help the rich and tax revenue would go down. More regulation is good. Yada yada yada.

It is painful how dumb you are. Your ignorance would be amusing, if it wasn't so damn dangerous. The same thing can be said of the Middle East, and people like you only validate what the majority of Muslims think in the region. Aside from your ignorance, the other commonality you have with those in the third world, is your propensity to never take responsibilty for your actions or your life. Let me guess; "the Man" has kept you down all your life. The West is evil and America, the Great Satan, has caused all the problems. These terrorists better hope they don't actually succeed in destroying the West, otherwise they might have to take some responsibilty.

Larry Miller's quote in describing Palestinians says it well:
"Other Arabs From The Same General Area Who Are In Deep Denial About Never Being Able To Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."

Anonymous, I don't buy your premise at all. I don't think you can use three words in a John Winthrop speech to compare with America of today, and no less American's foreign policy of today. Winthrop hadn't even seen American when he gave that speech, and to use it as your thesis of "protecting the broadest amount of freedom possible," is laughable (because Winthrop had no intention of protecting anybody's freedoms except the Puritans). Note that America wasn't founded by Winthrop.

To even try to compare/rationalize the Civil War with this war in Iraq is absurd. The Civil War was a necessary pre-emptive war (perhaps the only one in history) with no imminent threat, which was waged with one purpose: to unify and protect the Union. The war in Iraq was a pre-emptive war based on knowingly false intelligence with no clear justification. So to answer the questions. Yes, attacking Virginia was justified, and should be justifiable to anyone who believes in the United States, and yes, retaliating against Britain was also justifiable. I don't know if this is a quote I heard or a quote I made up, but there comes a time which people must rise up against the cruel arms of oppression, it's what we did against England (took us more than 100 years), and it's what we should have let Iraq do to Saddam Hussein.

It seems as if you're ruling out the possibility of containment. Saddam could easily have been contained, he had been ever since the early 1990's. War could have been avoided. The problem with Machiavelli's quote is that he believes that all war is inevitable; it just isn't.

This quote by LlZ probably amplifies it: Better their kids than ours!

Assuming that children have to be killed, or wars have to be fought is unnecessary, and illogical, which is why I have a problem with the phrase: "We're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here."

Oh great, another Fox news propaganda blog.

How do you know when a threat is imminent? After Poland is invaded? After Kuwait is invaded? After Pearl Harbor is bombed?

How about when a Muslim leader of a country says he wants to drive Israel into the sea and is seeking the means to enrich uranium and is making deals with rogue regimes like North Korea?

Or maybe its when the most wanted Terorist leader in the world declares war on the US (thanks Bubba)?

Or maybe its when a dictator violates 17 UN resolutions, kicks out weapon inspectors, and starts firing on US jets in the "no fly" zone?

Nope. An imminent threat is only after planes are flown into the World Trade Center buildings (actually taking them down this time) and killing 3000.

Murtha: Al Qaeda is in Iraq but it wasn't so we must leave because we brought them there and there are only 200, then 2,000 or more when we attracted them like flies to Helen Thomas. We need to moveour troops, move them to Grenland or Heidelberg, we need to ge tout, I truly believe that we need to redeploy to somewhere, anywhere, somewhere anywhere and out there, there, there out there somewhere, anywhere, maybe Toronto, We can fly planes! We can fly there, here, over there! WEEE!!

Olbermann: You don't way, gosh you speak truth to right wing power.

Algore: Well Keef, our troops are good but not that good, they're ok, but not really good, as I was in the military and I saw first hand how mediocre they really are, don't let the lies of polluting right-wing extremists fool you because they are filthy lying liars.

Keeth: gosh, you aren't wronger on this Mr. President, do you mind if I crawl under my desk over near you?

At least 50% of the posts in this thread (for example) border on the inane. I also suspect some people are posting on both sides of the discussion or posting with multiple aliases. The emotional content is often excessive and detracts from the value of whatever substance might actually exist in the posts.

Suggestion to all: preview your post before submitting it and if it contains any hint of insulting name calling or emotionally accusatory language, you may safely assume that your legitimate points (if any) will either be missed or ignored.

Thanks for listening(?)...

-OM

@ JD

After KO's position on the Rove indictment and last week's anti-indictment, tonight's look-the-other-way is incredible.

I have never taken him seriously as a journalist. Now it's confirmed that he's an out-of-place sportscaster.

NBC is the home of the loon
Connie, Cramer, Oafie... what a boon
Their case is a basket
Connie blew a gasket
They'll all be deep-sixed soon

"Here's the point. People are dying. Nice people. People who love their children. People who want their children to grow up, maybe aspie to go to te World Cup? Children being killed. And Mr. Bush wants to stay the course to kill more children. Why? How does this protect our country?"

Bam! You've hit the trifecta!

"It's for the children!" - check

Bush = Baby Killer - check

Obligatory narcissistic moral preening - check

Kudos to ya for one thing, brave Sir Robin: at least you refrained from smearing Minuteman Zarq and his Excellency and President of Iraq, Saddam Hussein, with baseless lies about baby-killing.

hitescape,

The message "click to install ActiveX control on the homepage" is a client-side issue so something you have to fix with your browser. Are you using IE? If you don't know how to resolve the issue with IE, you might want to try Firefox at least until MS releases their new browser.

The double and triple posting is a server side issue but is a problem with Movable Type that we have not been able to fix ourselves. Not always but close to it when you press "post" the comment IS added to the site but you sometimes get an error message. I guess people are either hitting "back" and then, not seeing their post, enter it again so you get a double post. If this happens twice in one session you get a triple.

The real solution is for us to intall the next fix from Six Apart when it comes out. In the meantime, folks will just have to learn (as many have - the number of double post comments has dropped over time) that to check to see if your comment was posted to first press "back" or reload OlbyWatch and select the post THEN hit refresh at least once (maybe a couple of time) to determine whether their comment posted after receiving an error message.

This problem is inherent in leaving comments wide open. Having tried all sorts of alternatives to best manage comments over the past couple years, I think most OlbyWatch readers will agree that leaving comments wide open and having the occassional double post is sort of like democracy "the worst form of commenting, with the exception of all others".

Our two soldiers are now dead. What a "bubble burster." What a "political event." How "politically useful" for the anti-war crowd.

I guess all that rooting Olby and Nonfactor did for their demise paid off and the proud "insurgent forces" have "burst the bubble of optimism" by torturing and killing two guys who were manning a check point and helping the Iraqis stay safe.

Well, this is not "reality" Nonfactor. It is political. Who cares that failed sportscasters talked about their political impact before the torture was done? You certainly don't.

The cartoonists are all hard at work spinning the kidnapped soldiers' deaths as we speak! I can hardly wait for their profound message. I'm sure the Moonbat parade will post them here!

I thought it was really nice the way Olby outed former co-worker Robin Roberts as he tried to put up a defense for her regarding Tom Shales accusation that she was too "butch". Nice one there Keith. Are you just on a mission to piss off every single current and former co-worker you've ever had and get youself fired (again) in the process or what exactly?

"I don't think you can use three words in a John Winthrop speech to compare with America of today, and no less American's foreign policy of today."

I was responding, likely to a faulty post, to one person who thought that the image of America as the City on a Hill had been destroyed by the conduct of a preemptive war.

"The war in Iraq was a pre-emptive war based on knowingly false intelligence with no clear justification."

16 Security Council resolutions requiring Saddam to disarm or face consequences and 1 Resolution, under the use of force Chapter of the UN Charter, that everyone agreed going in meant war if Saddam did not comply and a couple of years after a terrorist attack on the US by a group that intended to use WMD for a future attack. No justification? And, you agree that preemptive war is necessary when it's justified (see below).

"but there comes a time which people must rise up against the cruel arms of oppression,"

I agree with that senitment in Mexico, where there is no consensus that WMD is being manufactured and held. The reason the aforementioned Security Council resolutions passed was because of the belief that Iraq had weapons--not because the French, for example, liked passing laws against the Iraqis.

"It seems as if you're ruling out the possibility of containment. Saddam could easily have been contained, he had been ever since the early 1990's."

It worked very well under the UN Oil for Food program, which leaked like a sieve. Does that suggest that "containment" may have worked poorly? In actuality, all containment did was prevent him from attacking Kuwait again. It didn't affect his weapons development. Hussein, in fact, was acquiring conventional weapons that were forbidden under the cease-fire negotiated after the first Gulf War. These are the reasons why containment would not have worked in relation to WMD.

"Assuming that children have to be killed, or wars have to be fought is unnecessary, and illogical, which is why I have a problem with the phrase"

There is no assumption, in the Machiavelli quote, that all war has to occur. He only states that if war is going to occur delay of the war . . . . In fact, the UN spent over 10 years trying to get Hussein to be a good citizen. Hussein consistently refused over the course of 17 resolutions to do so. And, he flouted the will of the UN as expressed in those resolutions. Moreover, his disregard of the resolutions related to developing weapons that could be used to execute a terrible attack in the US. That suggests to me, not that diplomacy was a workable solution, but that war was inevitable. The question is when was war going to occur at a time to our advantage or his.

No one likes war, not even--despite leftist diatribes to the contrary--George Bush and Dick Cheney. But, to assume that diplomacy is always possible denies actual facts--like North Korea, which uses diplomacy as a shield to develop its capability, or Iraq which used diplomacy to thwart the UN and, as most thought, to develop its WMD capability, or, yes, like the Civil War.

Olbermann must be happy at the death of the 2 troops. He went to his local Mosque and gave thanks to Lucifer(Allah). Today on his show him and his fellow Jihadis (Leftists) will gloat about the soldiers death!
If only it had been Al-Ulbermon and Denik Al-Milbank.

Robert:

This may not be the place for it, but I read your note on the Active X issue. This same thing started happening to me about 2 weeks ago. It doesn't happen anywhere else, just here.

I suspect there may have been one Microsoft's "automatic updates" that somehow changed some of the settings.

Wow, judging by this site, if the people who hate Olbermann stopped watching the show, Keith would have no audience.

I was curious to see if Olbermann would address his e-mails so I clicked the show on last night, heard Mr. Olbermann ask Mr. Gore a moronic question, then clicked on the hockey game.

When will this douchebag realize his success lies in silly little comments read from a teleprompter on the all sports network?

Olbermann must be happy at the death of the 2 troops. He went to his local Mosque and gave thanks to Lucifer(Allah). Today on his show him and his fellow Jihadis (Leftists) will gloat about the soldiers death!

I don't believe this! 2 American Soldiers GAVE THEIR LIVES for their country, and you're the ones who are GLOATING about how bad it will make Keith Olbermann look!

My God, that is the most cold-blooded thing I have ever seen. I think I'm gonna be sick...

sure you are

Anybody notice that Unger's ratings were very Keith-like? In fact, Friday Unger matched Olbermann's usual pathetic figure (392,000 / 117,000) and nearly tied with Nancy Grace. No wonder the delusional MSLSD execs think Unger is great -- he was able to match Olby's stellar prime-time numbers!

Goes to show ya, Olby is the most expendable host around. Replace him with a failed comedian and it makes no difference. They just need to keep the crazed liberal writing staff high and well-fed on tofu, and the show will pull 300,000 in perpetuity.

Rita Cosby is now unable to speak, by the way! Who the heck is running the show at that network?

What rooting, KfK? These straw men arguments you set up are plain stupid.

To see Republicans use the U.N. to now try and justfiy the war is kind of funny. Sure, the U.S. acted without the U.N. in one of the only times this administration has listened to something they say. Remember, the U.N. has declared this war in Iraq illegal.

The fact that this administration ignored a real threat in North Korea and headed straight towards Iraq is neglegent, and it sets up a mentality across the world: Get nuclear weapons and don't get attacked, don't get nuclear weapons and do get attacked.

. . .you're the ones who are GLOATING about how bad it will make Keith Olbermann look!

Hammering that quote home.

KfK, if you look at Unger's ratings they were sub-par until Friday where he gave his interview with Rep. John Murtha. But I do like Unger and I hope MSNBC hires him.

If MSNBC hired Unger it would be consistent with all the bad hires they have made.

starlight reinforcements consumed missions daddy persistent Corsican!Israelites blasted experian interactive [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/experian-interactive.html] experian interactive [/url] experian interactive http://www.fast-credit-report.com/experian-interactive.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/experian-interactive.html absentee Aaron experian plus score trw experian [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/experian-plus-score.html] experian plus score trw experian [/url] experian plus score trw experian http://www.fast-credit-report.com/experian-plus-score.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/experian-plus-score.html bottoms rottenness equifax secure e business www scorecard experian com [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-secure-e-business.html] equifax secure e business www scorecard experian com [/url] equifax secure e business www scorecard experian com http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-secure-e-business.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-secure-e-business.html Burgundy.deallocating:youthful pebble humor gr fico [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/humor-gr-fico.html] humor gr fico [/url] humor gr fico http://www.fast-credit-report.com/humor-gr-fico.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/humor-gr-fico.html herds pastel,fraternities,taunter insurance companies that don t use credit score fico score watch [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/insurance-companies-that-don-t-use-credit-score.html] insurance companies that don t use credit score fico score watch [/url] insurance companies that don t use credit score fico score watch http://www.fast-credit-report.com/insurance-companies-that-don-t-use-credit-score.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/insurance-companies-that-don-t-use-credit-score.html seeding dispatch!antiredeposition what credit score do [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/what-credit-score-do.html] what credit score do [/url] what credit score do http://www.fast-credit-report.com/what-credit-score-do.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/what-credit-score-do.html bored sight phone service no credit check reports no credit [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/reports-no-credit.html] phone service no credit check reports no credit[/url] phone service no credit check reports no credit http://www.fast-credit-report.com/reports-no-credit.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/reports-no-credit.html assiduity adjuring hospitalizes ubiquity score credit [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/score-credit.html] score credit [/url] score credit http://www.fast-credit-report.com/score-credit.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/score-credit.html starfish:Tuscanize discredited for credit bureaus [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/for-credit-bureaus.html] for credit bureaus [/url] for credit bureaus http://www.fast-credit-report.com/for-credit-bureaus.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/for-credit-bureaus.html pointedly Caesarian:organizers insupportable a credit score of repair credit history [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/a-credit-score-of.html] a credit score of repair credit history [/url] a credit score of repair credit history http://www.fast-credit-report.com/a-credit-score-of.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/a-credit-score-of.html says Sternberg cortex shatterproof,lambs boat check credit loan no experian comforward reportaccess [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/boat-check-credit-loan-no.html] boat check credit loan no experian comforward reportaccess [/url] boat check credit loan no experian comforward reportaccess http://www.fast-credit-report.com/boat-check-credit-loan-no.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/boat-check-credit-loan-no.html sexual automotive pituitary!flashback gardeners consent for credit check [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/consent-for-credit-check.html] consent for credit check [/url] consent for credit check http://www.fast-credit-report.com/consent-for-credit-check.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/consent-for-credit-check.html Israelitizes?institutionalizes does ford financing loan to low fico scores credit score rating [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/does-ford-financing-loan-to-low-fico-scores.html] does ford financing loan to low fico scores credit score rating [/url] does ford financing loan to low fico scores credit score rating http://www.fast-credit-report.com/does-ford-financing-loan-to-low-fico-scores.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/does-ford-financing-loan-to-low-fico-scores.html indirecting airdrops:watchings 25 000 credit fraud insurance credit report scores [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/25-000-credit-fraud-insurance.html] 25 000 credit fraud insurance credit report scores [/url] 25 000 credit fraud insurance credit report scores http://www.fast-credit-report.com/25-000-credit-fraud-insurance.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/25-000-credit-fraud-insurance.html zoos indoctrinated,lighted shoelace muteness check balance knoxville tva credit union [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/check-balance-knoxville-tva-credit-union.html] check balance knoxville tva credit union [/url] check balance knoxville tva credit union http://www.fast-credit-report.com/check-balance-knoxville-tva-credit-union.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/check-balance-knoxville-tva-credit-union.html intensifiers columnize violets equifax promotion what does fico stand for [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-promotion.html] equifax promotion what does fico stand for [/url] equifax promotion what does fico stand for http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-promotion.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-promotion.html Gaelicization.distortion bunkhouse cattleman provinces equifax secure certificate [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-secure-certificate.html] equifax secure certificate [/url] equifax secure certificate http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-secure-certificate.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-secure-certificate.html Talmud Michelson.Fawkes scholarship. www experian com coloradonotice [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/www-experian-com-coloradonotice.html] www experian com coloradonotice [/url] www experian com coloradonotice http://www.fast-credit-report.com/www-experian-com-coloradonotice.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/www-experian-com-coloradonotice.html acme shadily generative bypassing.Brannon reading a credit report [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/reading-a-credit-report.html] reading a credit report [/url] reading a credit report http://www.fast-credit-report.com/reading-a-credit-report.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/reading-a-credit-report.html Sundays trio?Gothicizing milky! how to improve my credit score credit report business [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/how-to-improve-my-credit-score.html] how to improve my credit score credit report business [/url] how to improve my credit score credit report business http://www.fast-credit-report.com/how-to-improve-my-credit-score.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/how-to-improve-my-credit-score.html butt.murderer profitably disputing credit report freezing credit report in new york [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/disputing-credit-report.html] disputing credit report freezing credit report in new york [/url] disputing credit report freezing credit report in new york http://www.fast-credit-report.com/disputing-credit-report.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/disputing-credit-report.html coarser chirp bottomed econsumer equifax com fico score free [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/econsumer-equifax-com.html] econsumer equifax com fico score free [/url] econsumer equifax com fico score free http://www.fast-credit-report.com/econsumer-equifax-com.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/econsumer-equifax-com.html dealings melodious no credit score [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/no-credit-score.html] no credit score [/url] no credit score http://www.fast-credit-report.com/no-credit-score.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/no-credit-score.html authoritarianism spindling Glasgow coldly radiator experian score credit cards no credit check [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-cards-no-credit-check.html] experian score credit cards no credit check[/url] experian score credit cards no credit check http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-cards-no-credit-check.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-cards-no-credit-check.html effortlessness?cheerer civilizations!testifiers portrayal: equifax credit reporting experian phone [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-credit-reporting.html] equifax credit reporting experian phone [/url] equifax credit reporting experian phone http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-credit-reporting.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-credit-reporting.html subjects spending credit report fico [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-fico.html] credit report fico [/url] credit report fico http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-fico.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-fico.html tiny nests! free credit score online [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/free-credit-score-online.html] free credit score online [/url] free credit score online http://www.fast-credit-report.com/free-credit-score-online.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/free-credit-score-online.html anionic!specifics!denigrate parry!ossify credit report transunion [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-transunion.html] credit report transunion [/url] credit report transunion http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-transunion.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-transunion.html trusting piggybacked.Matisse germicide. free credit report score [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/free-credit-report-score.html] free credit report score [/url] free credit report score http://www.fast-credit-report.com/free-credit-report-score.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/free-credit-report-score.html redistribute,scribbled Howard grabs credit report repair is my credit score [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-repair.html] credit report repair is my credit score [/url] credit report repair is my credit score http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-repair.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-repair.html ...

starlight reinforcements consumed missions daddy persistent Corsican!Israelites blasted experian interactive [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/experian-interactive.html] experian interactive [/url] experian interactive http://www.fast-credit-report.com/experian-interactive.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/experian-interactive.html absentee Aaron experian plus score trw experian [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/experian-plus-score.html] experian plus score trw experian [/url] experian plus score trw experian http://www.fast-credit-report.com/experian-plus-score.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/experian-plus-score.html bottoms rottenness equifax secure e business www scorecard experian com [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-secure-e-business.html] equifax secure e business www scorecard experian com [/url] equifax secure e business www scorecard experian com http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-secure-e-business.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-secure-e-business.html Burgundy.deallocating:youthful pebble humor gr fico [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/humor-gr-fico.html] humor gr fico [/url] humor gr fico http://www.fast-credit-report.com/humor-gr-fico.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/humor-gr-fico.html herds pastel,fraternities,taunter insurance companies that don t use credit score fico score watch [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/insurance-companies-that-don-t-use-credit-score.html] insurance companies that don t use credit score fico score watch [/url] insurance companies that don t use credit score fico score watch http://www.fast-credit-report.com/insurance-companies-that-don-t-use-credit-score.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/insurance-companies-that-don-t-use-credit-score.html seeding dispatch!antiredeposition what credit score do [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/what-credit-score-do.html] what credit score do [/url] what credit score do http://www.fast-credit-report.com/what-credit-score-do.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/what-credit-score-do.html bored sight phone service no credit check reports no credit [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/reports-no-credit.html] phone service no credit check reports no credit[/url] phone service no credit check reports no credit http://www.fast-credit-report.com/reports-no-credit.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/reports-no-credit.html assiduity adjuring hospitalizes ubiquity score credit [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/score-credit.html] score credit [/url] score credit http://www.fast-credit-report.com/score-credit.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/score-credit.html starfish:Tuscanize discredited for credit bureaus [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/for-credit-bureaus.html] for credit bureaus [/url] for credit bureaus http://www.fast-credit-report.com/for-credit-bureaus.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/for-credit-bureaus.html pointedly Caesarian:organizers insupportable a credit score of repair credit history [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/a-credit-score-of.html] a credit score of repair credit history [/url] a credit score of repair credit history http://www.fast-credit-report.com/a-credit-score-of.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/a-credit-score-of.html says Sternberg cortex shatterproof,lambs boat check credit loan no experian comforward reportaccess [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/boat-check-credit-loan-no.html] boat check credit loan no experian comforward reportaccess [/url] boat check credit loan no experian comforward reportaccess http://www.fast-credit-report.com/boat-check-credit-loan-no.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/boat-check-credit-loan-no.html sexual automotive pituitary!flashback gardeners consent for credit check [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/consent-for-credit-check.html] consent for credit check [/url] consent for credit check http://www.fast-credit-report.com/consent-for-credit-check.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/consent-for-credit-check.html Israelitizes?institutionalizes does ford financing loan to low fico scores credit score rating [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/does-ford-financing-loan-to-low-fico-scores.html] does ford financing loan to low fico scores credit score rating [/url] does ford financing loan to low fico scores credit score rating http://www.fast-credit-report.com/does-ford-financing-loan-to-low-fico-scores.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/does-ford-financing-loan-to-low-fico-scores.html indirecting airdrops:watchings 25 000 credit fraud insurance credit report scores [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/25-000-credit-fraud-insurance.html] 25 000 credit fraud insurance credit report scores [/url] 25 000 credit fraud insurance credit report scores http://www.fast-credit-report.com/25-000-credit-fraud-insurance.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/25-000-credit-fraud-insurance.html zoos indoctrinated,lighted shoelace muteness check balance knoxville tva credit union [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/check-balance-knoxville-tva-credit-union.html] check balance knoxville tva credit union [/url] check balance knoxville tva credit union http://www.fast-credit-report.com/check-balance-knoxville-tva-credit-union.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/check-balance-knoxville-tva-credit-union.html intensifiers columnize violets equifax promotion what does fico stand for [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-promotion.html] equifax promotion what does fico stand for [/url] equifax promotion what does fico stand for http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-promotion.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-promotion.html Gaelicization.distortion bunkhouse cattleman provinces equifax secure certificate [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-secure-certificate.html] equifax secure certificate [/url] equifax secure certificate http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-secure-certificate.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-secure-certificate.html Talmud Michelson.Fawkes scholarship. www experian com coloradonotice [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/www-experian-com-coloradonotice.html] www experian com coloradonotice [/url] www experian com coloradonotice http://www.fast-credit-report.com/www-experian-com-coloradonotice.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/www-experian-com-coloradonotice.html acme shadily generative bypassing.Brannon reading a credit report [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/reading-a-credit-report.html] reading a credit report [/url] reading a credit report http://www.fast-credit-report.com/reading-a-credit-report.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/reading-a-credit-report.html Sundays trio?Gothicizing milky! how to improve my credit score credit report business [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/how-to-improve-my-credit-score.html] how to improve my credit score credit report business [/url] how to improve my credit score credit report business http://www.fast-credit-report.com/how-to-improve-my-credit-score.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/how-to-improve-my-credit-score.html butt.murderer profitably disputing credit report freezing credit report in new york [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/disputing-credit-report.html] disputing credit report freezing credit report in new york [/url] disputing credit report freezing credit report in new york http://www.fast-credit-report.com/disputing-credit-report.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/disputing-credit-report.html coarser chirp bottomed econsumer equifax com fico score free [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/econsumer-equifax-com.html] econsumer equifax com fico score free [/url] econsumer equifax com fico score free http://www.fast-credit-report.com/econsumer-equifax-com.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/econsumer-equifax-com.html dealings melodious no credit score [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/no-credit-score.html] no credit score [/url] no credit score http://www.fast-credit-report.com/no-credit-score.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/no-credit-score.html authoritarianism spindling Glasgow coldly radiator experian score credit cards no credit check [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-cards-no-credit-check.html] experian score credit cards no credit check[/url] experian score credit cards no credit check http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-cards-no-credit-check.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-cards-no-credit-check.html effortlessness?cheerer civilizations!testifiers portrayal: equifax credit reporting experian phone [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-credit-reporting.html] equifax credit reporting experian phone [/url] equifax credit reporting experian phone http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-credit-reporting.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/equifax-credit-reporting.html subjects spending credit report fico [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-fico.html] credit report fico [/url] credit report fico http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-fico.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-fico.html tiny nests! free credit score online [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/free-credit-score-online.html] free credit score online [/url] free credit score online http://www.fast-credit-report.com/free-credit-score-online.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/free-credit-score-online.html anionic!specifics!denigrate parry!ossify credit report transunion [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-transunion.html] credit report transunion [/url] credit report transunion http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-transunion.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-transunion.html trusting piggybacked.Matisse germicide. free credit report score [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/free-credit-report-score.html] free credit report score [/url] free credit report score http://www.fast-credit-report.com/free-credit-report-score.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/free-credit-report-score.html redistribute,scribbled Howard grabs credit report repair is my credit score [url=http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-repair.html] credit report repair is my credit score [/url] credit report repair is my credit score http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-repair.html http://www.fast-credit-report.com/credit-report-repair.html ...

Spammers. I fail to see what they gain, unless they are trying to destroy the Olbermannwatch site. Google gets upset and bans sites for posts like these.

Nonfactor typed:

>. . .you're the ones who are GLOATING about how bad it will make Keith Olbermann look! Hammering that quote home.

I am not GLOATING about anything. I am PISSED. I AM PISSED AT PEOPLE WHO ROOT FOR TERRORISTS WHO TORTURE AND KILL OUR GUYS. How the Hell do you get "gloating" from that you imbecile? I would prefer that the press mourned the loss of our men and rooted for their safe return. When they don't I am furious. You are too far gone to even comprehend what I am talking about, which is both pathetic and sad. Just go watch Olbermann and leave the normal people alone.

Nonfactor,

Here is a site that suits you better. Please post your political views there:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/20/101853/419

From the site:

"So our boys were tortured - how quaint"
by occams hatchet
Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 07:18:50 AM PDT

Go there with your friends and discuss your alternate reality Nonfactor.

i hear ya, KfK, i sure hope our guys weren't tortured to death like this guy.

How the Hell do you get "gloating" from that you imbecile?

Because it appears you don't give a damn - you're waiting with baited breath for Keith Olbermann to say something so you can then spend the rest of the night ripping him apart.

You show no respect - I mean, the announcement had barely been made and already people were on this site claiming they "couldn't wait" for Olbermann to cheer.

Again, KfK, who's rooting for the terrorists? Certaintly not me, and not Keith Olbermann. And I didn't make that statement, I was quoting an anonymous poster.

You are too far gone to even comprehend what I am talking about

Is this another one of those claims you make which you can't back up by any facts, but it just makes you feel good when you say it? I think it is.

And to anonymous - There are wingnuts on both sides.

nonfactor, I always enjoy watching the lengths you go to defend your treasure, Keith Olbermann. Seriously, Keith is a very lucky man to have somebody who believes in him so much. You have set the bar very high for true fans of all ilks. Cudos.

Nonfactor (kooky keith incognito), dailykos, democratic underground and the rest of the assorted leftwing cornholers are actually happy that these 2 soldeirs were found dead. Afterall, they got what they deserved, right? They cannot hide their hate for their country and the troops.

The Krazy Keith loving Looney Leftists hate America!
The Krazy Keith loving Looney Leftists hate our troops!
The Krazy Keith loving Looney Leftists hate small dogs and children!

Nonfactor (kooky keith incognito), dailykos, democratic underground and the rest of the assorted leftwing cornholers are actually happy that these 2 soldeirs were found dead.

Nice, allegation without evidence. Do you have ANY PROOF that the moderators/administrators of those sites have said that or are you repeating the LIE that Rush Limbaugh used?

If you have proof, show it. If not, shut up.

Nonfactor and other leftwing kooks worship at the alter of the UN and love to defend pedophiles like the UN. They are the base of the democratic party.
-------------------------------------------------
UN accused of rape, pedophilia, prostitution
Civilians, staff in Congo under internal investigation

Posted: November 24, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern

2004 WorldNetDaily.com
The United Nations claims it is investigating about 150 allegations of sexual abuse by U.N. civilian staff and soldiers in the Congo, some of them recorded on videotape.

The charges include accusations of pedophilia, rape and prostitution, said Jane Holl Lute, an assistant secretary-general in the peacekeeping department.

Lute, an American, said there was photographic and video evidence for some of the allegations and most of the charges came to light since the spring.

In May the United Nations reported some 30 cases of abuse among peacekeepers in the northeastern town of Bunia, where half of the more than 10,000 soldiers are stationed.

The U.N. internal oversight office is expected to release a report soon on the abuse in Bunia. In addition, the peacekeeping department is sending at least two other teams to Congo to deal with various aspects of the problem, Lute said.
But the United Nations is not known for its forthrightness and candor in such internal investigations. The agency has been criticized for ignoring evidence or wrongdoing in the past ? including accusations of rape and murder by "peacekeepers."

In fact, previous revelations of peacekeeping abuses have only been revealed by news organizations. Such was the case in Cambodia in the early 1990s and later in Somalia, Bosnia and Ethiopia.

"I am afraid there is clear evidence that acts of gross misconduct have taken place," said Secretary-General Kofi Annan. "This is a shameful thing for the United Nations to have to say, and I am absolutely outraged by it."

Annan said the allegations concerned a small number of U.N. personnel and promised to hold those involved accountable.

"I have long made it clear that my attitude to sexual exploitation and abuse is one of zero tolerance, without exception, and I am determined to implement this policy in the most transparent manner," Annan said.

Annan was criticized last week by United Nations workers who recorded a no-confidence vote against top leadership of the global body in what was seen as a direct swipe at his tenure. The Oil-for-Food scandal has given the U.N. such a black eye that there is talk among U.N. insiders that Annan may not serve out his second term ending in 2006.
But the new charges of rape and pedophilia by U.N. troops and workers in Congo may prove even more sensational. It's hardly the first scandal involving U.N. workers and troops in Africa.
Former United Nations Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali's tenure was marked by scandalous charges that he played a leading role in supplying weapons to the Hutu regime that carried out a campaign of genocide against the Tutsi tribe in 1994.

As minister of foreign affairs in Egypt, Boutros-Ghali facilitated an arms deal in 1990, which was to result in $26 million of mortar bombs, rocket launchers, grenades and ammunition being flown from Cairo to Rwanda. The arms were used by Hutus in attacks which led to up to a million deaths. The role of Boutros-Ghali, who was in charge at the U.N. when it turned its back on the killings in 1994, was revealed in a book by Linda Melvern. In "A People Betrayed: The Role of the West in Rwanda's Genocide," Boutros-Ghali admits his role in approving an initial $5.8 million arms deal in 1990, which led to Egypt supplying arms to Rwanda until 1992. He says he approved it because it was his job as foreign minister to sell weapons for Egypt.

Back in 1997, there were reports Belgian U.N. troops roasted a Somali boy. A military court reportedly sentenced two paratroopers to a month in jail and a fine of 200 pounds for the offense.
Another Belgian soldier reportedly forced a young Somali to eat pork, drink salt water and then eat his own vomit. Another sergeant was accused of murdering a Somali whom he was photographed urinating upon. Another child, accused of stealing food from the paratroopers' base, died after being locked in a storage container for 48 hours. Fifteen other members of the same regiment were investigated in 1995 for "acts of sadism and torture" against Somali civilians.

The pattern of abuse was not confined to Belgian troops. Belgium was actually the third country in the peacekeeping group to charge troops with serious crimes against Somali citizens -- including rape, torture and murder. In 1995, a group of Canadian paratroopers were investigated for torturing a Somali to death and killing three others.

Gruesome photos were published in a Milan magazine of Italian soldiers torturing a Somali youth and abusing and raping a Somali girl. Paratroopers claim they were specifically trained in methods of torture to aid interrogation. According to one witness, Italian soldiers tied a young Somali girl to the front of an armored personnel carrier and raped her while officers looked on.

Few other news agencies ? especially in the United States ? have devoted any coverage to these atrocities. The Village Voice was one notable exception.

The South China Morning Post published an AFP report about an Italian battalion commander who sexually abused and strangled a 13-year-old Somali boy. There are also allegations that, in 1993, Italian soldiers beat seven suspected Somali thieves, killing one; that they beat to death a 14-year-old boy who sold a false medal and beat a couple in a car.

The Krazy Keith Loving Looney Leftists hate the truth.

The Krazy Keith Loving Looney Leftists hate the truth.

I am waiting with bated breath for the first Dem/Liberal/Progressive to bring up the numerous violations of the Geneva Conventions, and the war atrocities committed in Iraq. Not the violations attributed to US soldiers, the ones committed (on video, often enough) by the "enemy combatants." Beheading, brutal enough to be considered cruel and unusual (TORTURE)and banned by civilized countries, killing POW's (that is, after all what the kidnapped soldiers were), killing unarmed civilians. Not to mention the torture of repeadtedly being told these rat-bastard animals we are fighting are going to chop their heads off!

This story shouldn't be a cause to see what political hay Olby will make of it tonight (which he will, no doubt). Whether or not you "separate political reality", the fact is these savages violated about every principle known to man. It should piss off every civilized person in the world. Unfortunately, it seems it doesn't.

I am waiting with bated breath for the first Dem/Liberal/Progressive to bring up the numerous violations of the Geneva Conventions

From firedoglake.com:

"There is no excuse for torture — no matter which side is doing it, including our own side — and to have to endure the knowledge that your child may have been tortured before facing a horrible death…well, I cannot even allow myself to think about that this morning. My god, those poor parents, I just want to wrap my arms around them somehow to give them some form of comfort, but I know that will be impossible for them for a long, long time.

The people who perpetrated this torture against our soldiers should be caught and held to account — as should those people in our own military and government who have pushed the policies of state-sanctioned torture forward as legitimate means of government policy. We cannot on the one hand scream about someone else’s actions, while condoning actions of our own citizens which do not comport with the same standards."

leftwing kooks worship at the alter of the UN!
leftwing kooks worship at the alter of Pedophilia!
leftwing kooks worship at the alter of Floridated Water Users!

THEY torture to do evil, WE torture to spread freedom it`s as simple as that, moonbat. why do you think they`re called evil-doers, while we`re the land of the free? huh? it`s because we`re freedom spreaders, you olbymaniac. why don`t you go to Iran, where your free to hate our troops out in the open, and then tell me how much you like it, moonbat.

It's sickening to see the Left gloat about the death of the 2 Americans. People like David Shamster make me sick!

Nice that the "moral equivalence brigade" is out in force, posting images of deceased combat participants on this web site. Really cute.

Very enlightning post, anon. Noticed you left out the obligatory rant about this is all Bush's fault because "up until the Bush Administration, we actually tried to follow the law under the Geneva Convention."

Notice the equivocation.

Someone too stupid to read wrote:

>Anonymous: Do you have ANY PROOF that the moderators/administrators of those sites have said that or are you repeating the LIE that Rush Limbaugh used? If you have proof, show it. If not, shut up.

AS POSTED ABOVE:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/20/101853/419

"So our boys were tortured - how quaint"
by occams hatchet
Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 07:18:50 AM PDT

There's your proof, moonbat.

The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
The only good gook is a dead gook.
The only good kraut is a dead kraut.
The only good jap is a dead jap.

Moral equivalence? Hogwash! This is a different kind of war. Even Kamakaze pilots wore uniforms, moonbat. Suiciders don`t want freedom, they hate OUR freedom, so why would they want it for themselves?! Suiciders want nothing more than burkhas and forced allah praying and the outlawing of stem cell research. Oh, i forgot, they DO want something more ... they want paradise and virgins too! Ha! Well sir, if that`s the case, then we`ll be more than happy to give it to them!

There's your proof, moonbat.

Reread my question, moron. I said - do you have any proof the MODERATORS and ADMINISTRATORS of the site support the position you claim? If all you have is ONE comment from a general board, the I would say the answer is NO!

What you have done is like taking one comment from this board and attributing it to Mr. Cox.

One of Daily Kos's most infamous comments was his reaction to the four veterans who were killed and hung from a bridge in Fallujah. Markos summed up his feelings in two words: "Screw 'em!"

>I said - do you have any proof the MODERATORS and ADMINISTRATORS of the site support the position you claim?

The post is by a moderator if I am not mistaken. I am not an expert on the Daily Kos community. You need several years of experience as a forensic psychiatrist for that.

If you go to the front page, this comment thread is listed as one of the "recommended diaries." Don't moderators and administrators make those decisions? I think they do. So your beloved site once again proves it is a site devoted to anti-American rants and insane posturing. Congrats my batty pal.

So your beloved site once again proves it is a site devoted to anti-American rants and insane posturing.

KfK, for once in your life would you actualy READ the damn post instead of just the header? The same person (occams hatchet) says:

"I weep for my country, and for the families and loved ones of those in Iraq and Afghanistan, those yet living and those already dead."

Does that sound "anti-American" to you?

Bye.

First, they ask for proof that a moderator or administrator posted the pro-terrorist crap on the freak site DailyKos. To recap, the idiotic propaganda is here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/20/101853/419

"So our boys were tortured - how quaint"
by occams hatchet
Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 07:18:50 AM PDT

When they get the proof, they switch to damage control and DEFEND THE POST!

Good job idiots. Defend that post. At least you are willing to defend something (anything except your country). You know, if you could just figure out why you will defend a pro-terrorist rant so fervently and channel that misplaced allegiance to your own friends and neighbors (yes, they comprise your "country") you might find you feel better, or at least less despicable.

Look at what this debate has turned into. It's pathetic.

I'm still waiting for KfK to make sense and respond to the substance of my posts.

Nonfactor, inject some substance into your posts. Seriously. Your posts are not worth reading, much less responding to. You want me to continue indulging you, start making some sense.

Note the Moonbat silence after their pal Kos provided the smoking gun of pro-terrorist propaganda. So sad.

You Nutjobs are incredible. It's too late. Us on the Left along with our Islamic allies are winning everywhere. Europe is virtually ours and so is half this country.
Christianity will soon be wiped out and the vatican will be a Mosque.
The fact is Leftists and Jihadis are blood brothers against the evil Christian-Capitalists west. Victory is at hand!

KfK, I don't see how the post made by one person on dailykos shows the entire left wing of the political spectrum to be "pro-terrorist." If you can show otherwise by all means go right ahead. How about instead of trying to detract from the point you stick to it?

Why weren't you outraged when Alberto Gonzalez said "how quaint" when he was referring to the Geneva Conventions?

The self-righteous indignation and false patriotism you seem to have, KfK, is truly a thing to be despised. I call you out on some stupid things you say and you shut up and try and change the subject. Get a grip. Lets see how much longer you can go before telling me what people on the left do, or telling me what I myself do? Can't wait to hear you tell me I'm gloating over the deaths of soldiers or that I love terrorists--real mature.

Nonfactor, we will win! Our Islamic aqllies are on the march so don't despair. Our liberators will be here soon to free us from the evil Capitalist-Christians. Islam is very tolerant, so relax know theat the Jihadi-Leftists alliance will win!

When they get the proof, they switch to damage control and DEFEND THE POST!

Nonfactor made the point - Alberto Gonzales called the Geneva Convention "quaint"...it's called satire, genius.

At least you are willing to defend something (anything except your country).

You want a real fight on your hands? Continue to question my patriotism and I will show you exactly how nasty I can become.

My father and grandfather fought for this country. I have friends in the military right now. I will not stand idly by and let some chickenhawk behind a keyboard tell me I'm not a "Good American".

To Anon,
I question your patriotism because you support Islamo-Fascism. You're a coward because you know we'll never run into each other. I'm ex military and have a cousin in Iraq. You're just like Nonfactor, a Jihadi supporter. Are you still upset Zarqawi died!

This has got to be one of the worst talking points I've seen used. It really summarizes the childish attitudes of some people when they insult people without looking them in the face.

I'll never accuse someone of being anti-American or pro-terrorist simply because they are on the right and I am on the left. It's not only shameless, but it's disgusting and immature. I am an American, as are most of the people reading these words, and to claim that I support the killing of other Americans is truly stupid.

>Nonfactor: The self-righteous indignation and false patriotism you seem to have, KfK, is truly a thing to be despised.

I know you despise patriotism Nonfactor. So what else is new?

>Anonymous: You want a real fight on your hands? Continue to question my patriotism

I not only question it, I assert you are anti-patriotic and a menace. I also fail to see how much more nasty you can become. You seem at the depths already.

>Anonymous: My father and grandfather fought for this country.

Congratulations! Bushes father fought for his country and was shot down. You love him now? Unfortunately, courage and common sense are not passed genetically. I am sure your Grandfather would be embarrased by your stupid comments.

>Nonfactor: This has got to be one of the worst talking points I've seen used. It really summarizes the childish attitudes of some people when they insult people without looking them in the face.

Jeez Nonfactor, you sure have a way of making yourself look like an inconsistent moron. If you don't like guys who "insult people without looking them in the face," then what the Hell are you doing watching Olbermann? ALL HE DOES is insult people without looking them in the face. Man, you sure are a dope!

Just remember, KfK... there is a difference between patriotism and BLIND patriotism.

Patriotism is when you love your country but are still willing to question it's leaders and hold them accountable.

Blind patriotism (which you have) is what got Hitler put into power.

James, is their no other world leader you mention? I think you reference Hitler in about every third post.

How about this one James:

It is patriotic to care more about the lives of your fellow Americans than about making political points.

Or

Those who encourage our enemies by degrading our military, stating "we can't win," and screaming "if you kill enough of our guys, we will leave," are NOT PATRIOTS. Therefore, Howard Dean, Murtha, and the rest of you clowns are NOT PATRIOTS.

If you don't like the word "patriot" we can use another. Murtha and company are hurting us all. They are propagandizing for the enemy. How about we call them "enemy sympathisers"? That way you clowns don't have to hear you are not patriotic. I know I have been harsh, so as a reward here is a picture of your hero:

Oh yeah! Casey would be proud! Never mind the head choppers! Bush is the one to blame!

Idiot.

Hey! That is a patriotic message above Cindy's head! She is saying the US is wrong. That won't encourage jihadis at all! Why would they fight harder if they see Americans attacking their own leader for fighting the war?

How many jihadis has Cindy given a boost to? Man, she is disgusting (but also has "absolute moral authority").

"It is patriotic to care more about the lives of your fellow Americans than about making political points."

Ask President Bush. He was the one invoking 9/11 every other sentance in order to get re-elected. That's making 'political points' by using 'lives of our fellow Americans' as propoganda material.

I support our troops. I just don't agree with the orders their given. But, you can't seem to make that distinction.

Those who encourage our enemies by degrading our military, stating "we can't win," and screaming "if you kill enough of our guys, we will leave," are NOT PATRIOTS. They are propagandizing for the enemy.

+ + +

Nonsense, you silly little person.

"To criticize one's country is to do it a service ... Criticism, in short, is more than a right; it is an act of patriotism -- a higher form of patriotism, I believe, than the familiar rituals and national adulation." -- Senator F. William Fulbright, 1966

Non is right. There is nothing inherently wrong with criticizing the government. In fact, our right to do that was a founding principle of our country. That said, it can also be true that criticism of the government has propaganda value for our countries enemies. I believe that is the case with some of the more extreme criticism of the Bush Administration. Free speech entitles all to speak out minds but with that freedom comes responsiblity which seems to me to be sorely lacking in the speech emanating from the left.

I previously linked a new study out that shows the connection between terrorism and media coverage. It is worth reading.

I am not saying that the media should NOT report on violence in Iraq but there is no doubt that al Qaeda and other terrorist organization are fighting a media war. The terrorist know that their acts (the more outrageous the better) will get them media coverage in the U.S.. This is their primary goal - affect U.S. public opinion in order to weaken American resolve so that the U.S. withdraws its military support for the new Iraqi government and they can take over the country. Anyone disputing THAT? Their violence is not mindless. They have a stated purpose: get Americans to pressure the government to pull our troops out of Iraq. This has already worked in countries in Europe. It has worked on the U.S. before (Vietnam, Lebanon, Somalia). They have good reason to believe it will work in Iraq.

The question Non and the rest of the Kossaks trolling on this site need to answer is simple: "...and then what?"

Let's all suspend disbelief for a moment and agree that the lefties are right and we should "redeploy" (otherwise known as "retrreat") from Iraq forthwith so that by Labor Day all of our troops are either stationed elsewhere in the Middle East or bases in Okinawa, Germany and South Korea.

Now what?

I'd love to hear a lefty vision for what happens in the wake of our leaving Iraq in the next 90 days?

Any of you OlbyLoons prepared to tackle that one?

I'd love to hear a righty vision for what happens in the wake of our not leaving Iraq.

Any of you NutJobs prepared to tackle that one?

"I'd love to hear a righty vision for what happens in the wake of our not leaving Iraq.'

Actually I favoe leacing Iraq but not for defeatists purposes. We should give the Shias and Kurds, Tank, Planes and Heavy Artillery. Then withdarw. Once we leave let them crush the Sunnis and Their Al-Qaeda allies. Then the Leftists will weep that their allies have been crush. What do you guys have to say about this?

Bob,

LEGITIMATE criticism is OK. Preferably, members of congress should CONSTRUCTIVELY discuss the situation in Iraq with the administration. Airing dirty laundry in public is purely political and merely helps the terrorists. The time for "anything-goes" debate and dissent on this war came and went when congress voted in favor of the use of force. The Democrats decided that the war was a political disaster after the fact and invented a reason to dissent. WMD's conveniently fit the bill. People who voted for the war then used the war for political gain by saying "we were tricked" (e.g. Jean Francois Kerry). These cynical moves have been encouraging terrorists and getting people killed. A unified front in this war would give the terrorists NO HOPE. Seems the lefties don't get it. Of course, they are lefties precisely because they just don't get it.

As for this question:

>what happens in the wake of our not leaving Iraq

Clearly the person asking this has not noticed any changes since the invasion. Eventually, Iraqis will have their own functioning government and military and will run the show. This has been gradually happening. Lefties want to pretend Democracy in Iraq is impossible because the alternative is unacceptable to them. They would have to admit that their actions have been foolish and dangerous.

Finally, Mr. "Nonsense" quotes a "Senator F. William Fulbright" from 1966. I must assume he means James William Fulbright, noted segregationist and anti-semite. I would not choose to quote a man like that, but nonetheless, I will give you a quote of his as well:

"In a democracy dissent is an act of faith. Like medicine, the test of its value is not in its taste, but in its effects."

As disgusting as the man was, he at least realized that the effects of dissent are relevant. You may think any and all dissent is wonderful. That is a dumb view and ignores the real-world effect that irresponsible dissent can have. Calling Bush a "terrorist" and screaming "we can't win in Iraq" is STUPID. You can not understand that, or choose not to understand that, and that is unfortunate for the rest of us.

Righties want to pretend Democracy in Iraq is working because the alternative is unacceptable to them. They would have to admit that their actions have been foolish and dangerous. You may think that some forms of legal dissent are good, while other forms of legal dissent are bad. That is an ill-informed view and ignores not only the real-world, but the constitution -- which is careful to guarantee ALL forms of legal dissent. Any distinctions you draw on your own about which forms of legal dissent are "good" and which are "bad", by definition, simply serve to reveal your own unconstitutional predilections.

This comment thread is now closed.