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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    July 5, 2006
    COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN - JULY 5, 2006

    "COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" (8:00 P.M.-9:00 P.M. ET)

    Host: Keith Olbermann

    Topics/Guests:

    • SECRETARY OF STATE RICE AND PRES. BUSH ON NORTH KOREA: Richard Wolffe, Newsweek
    • PRES. BUSH TOLD PATRICK FITZGERALD THAT HE DIRECTED VICE PRES. CHENEY TO PERSONALLY LEAD THE EFFORTS TO COUNTER ALLEGATIONS OF MISREPRESENTED INTELLIGENCE INFO: Lawrence O'Donnell, MSNBC senior political analyst
    • PLAGIARISM EXPERT BUSTS COULTER: John Barrie, CEO of iParadigms
    • MAN BREAKS WORLD RECORD IN LAWNMOWER RACE: Bob Cleveland, the record-breaker

    "Dirty Olby and Crazy Larry"

    Comedian Keith Olbermann kicked off The Hour of Spin with a couple of gaffes that demonstrate how little accuracy matters to those who inhabit OlbyPlanet:

    North Korean Interncontinental Ballistic Missiles that not only don't reach Alaska, they don't even leave Korea.

    North Korea shot off a bunch of missiles, but most of them were scuds. Only one of them (that's singular) was intended to reach across the ocean. Olby corrected that moments later, and in the process made another blunder:

    The world reacting today to Pyung Yang's volley of nuclear weapons, seven in all...

    Seven nuclear weapons? If you say so. That well known expert on nuclear proliferation and the politics of Korea, Richard Wolffe, spewed vague slogans like "reason to be concerned", and KO seemed ill at ease covering a story he has all but ignored for weeks.

    Keith was much more at home griping about how the Bin Laden unit at the CIA has been disbanded, or confusing calling records with the NSA surveillance program. For this terrorism analyst Juliette Kayyem was brought in. She so perfectly echoed every one of Olby's spin points that we wondered just who she was. So, google, google, google...ah, now it becomes clear. Appointed by Dick Gephardt. Advisor to Janet Reno. In other words, she's a Democrat, a partisan with a partisan's viewpoint. Now why didn't KO tell us that? That's kind of a dirty trick.

    Then it's off to Murray Waas's unconfirmed report that President Bush asked Cheney to take the lead in rebutting charges made by Joe Wilson. So KO went to an unbiased source for analysis, Lawrence ("Liar! Creepy Liar!") O'Donnell. Larry, of course, is a longtime Democrat strategist. Why didn't KO mention that? (Another dirty trick!) Perhaps because it might remind us that it was time to update The List (partisan politicos and strategists interviewed on Countdown):

    • May 22: Lawrence O'Donnell (D)
    • May 30: Rep Barney Frank (D)
    • June 9: Lawrence O'Donnell (D)
    • June 15: Bob Schrum (D)
    • June 16: Rep John Murtha (D)
    • June 19: Al Gore (D)
    • June 20: Sen Jack Reed (D)
    • June 20: Lawrence O'Donnell (D)
    • June 23: Al Gore (D)
    • July 5: Lawrence O'Donnell (D)

    KO is batting a thousand--at least on the DNC scorecard. On the other hand, O'Donnell's accuracy rate has been dismal. But he gives Krazy what he wants to hear, so...onward!

    Larry praised Waas's "very good reporting" and suggested it was an "authorized leak". Then he started in on another favorite Konspiracy: it's all "groundwork for a pardon" for Scooter Libby. Hey, if Larry says so, who could doubt it? His track record as Olby's Nostradamus has really been stellar, hasn't it? Second only to David "I'm convinced Karl Rove will be indicted" Shuster.

    In the #3 slot we learned all about the "amoral fear-monger", Ann Coulter. Shouldn't Keith Olbermann be a bit, shall we say, wary about calling other people "amoral"? But we digress. We don't recall KO devoting one minute of Countdown to plagiarism charges against Doris Kearns Goodwin, but tonight he interviewed "plagiarism expert" Dr John Barrie. Barrie is a graduate of UC Berkeley, where he got his doctorate in...biophysics! He is currently head of a company that is trying to sell its plagiarism-spotting service to willing purchasers.

    Not really being a plagiarism expert himself, Barrie relies on a software program to do the work. The robots found three similarities in Ann's book, and some in a couple of her columns as well. It's hard to scrutinize his claims since Keith's softball questions were in no way challenging, and the segment was, as usual, completely one-sided.

    #2: Recycled NBC video about the space shuttle, "comedian Rush Limbaugh", Paris Hilton, Star Jones, Bryant Gumbel, and...well, who cares? #1: Lawnmower races. One of the "worst person" runners-up was a reporter who wrote a story that proved to be wrong. If we didn't know it happened in London, it could very well have been Keith Olbermann reporting about Drudge leaks from the White House. Or Fox doctoring a transcript. Or... Wait! On OlbyPlanet, Krazy Keith's falsehoods are not acknowledged, let alone corrected. What were we thinking?

    And that's The Hour of Spin for this, the 136th day of the Keith Olbermann CoverUp. And the magic number is still two


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (134) | | View blog reactions

    134 Comments

    This is a must-miss. The "what if's" are bound to fly when the second bullet point is fired at the heads of the gullible. The lovely "Bush knew" theme will reign supreme. Perhaps a Watergate reference SMG?

    It will be interesting to see how Olby blames the administration for North Korea. Will he blame the Prez for being "preoccupied" in Iraq and Iran, as if the North Korean problem is all Bush's fault? Or will Keith blame Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter who brokered a sham agreement with the Koreans and never bothered to keep them honest? Of course, Kim Jung Il is firing these missiles to get attention -- he loves to be in the news. However, that is not Keith's concern. His issue is with Bush. The evil terror state creating Bush who created all evil in the world by sticking up for his country!

    Now that Limbaugh is cleared in the great viagra case will Olby tell his audience, "it is a shame Limbaugh's medical privacy was violated?" Or will Krazy Keith be too preoccupied with attacking a big bad threatening conservative woman (Ann Coulter for all the liberal spoon fed Olbyite dopes who couldn't figure it out).

    I wonder if "Karmabites" will be watching Olby tonight. I wonder if Olby will need extra orange paint to hide his sallow, drawn, scared face tonight. I wonder if he is under his desk e-mailing and smoking a cigarette as I write this.

    Good luck JD -- your job is indeed horrible.

    At Fox News they’re rolling in money
    At NBC the skies aren’t so sunny
    Their cable shows suck
    Keith’s run amuck
    GE shareholders don’t find it too funny

    KfK said,"Limbaugh's medical privacy was violated"
    ---------------------------------

    Wrong again, KfK. When you make a plea agreement in a case where you've been nailed for illegally obtaining perscription drugs... then you are found with percription drugs not in your name (an apparant violation of that plea deal), you deserve what comes to you. In the Big Fat Idiot's case (copyright, Al Franken), he deserves even more.

    Be honest, if this had happened to a democrat, you'd (let's say a Kennedy), you'd be screaming from the rafters to throw him in jail.

    "perscription drugs... then you are found with percription drugs"

    Actually, James, it's prescription.

    Limited skill set, these Olberdunce drones.

    "perscription drugs... then you are found with percription drugs"

    Actually, James, it's prescription.

    Limited skill set, these Olberdunce drones.

    My spelling sucks. I've always admitted it. If that's the only thing you have to criticize... I'm fine with that.

    James you used Kennedy,oops poor choice those guys get away with murder.Literaly. Limbaugh has had a hard time and all. But he never lost his sense of humor. He laughs all the way to the bank Monday thru Friday 12:00 to 3:00. Can Franken say the same? Probably but i heard it was at the boys club expense.

    BULLETIN...BULLETIN...BULLETIN...BULLETIN...BULLETIN...

    This just in...Ann Coulter "supposed blonde" conservative, has been found guilty of PLAGIARZING large portions of the English alphabet for her new book, "Godless." It has also been reported by anonymous sources that "she" also took WHOLE WORDS out of the "Webster's New English Dictionary" and passed them off as her own....DEVELOPING....

    Laughing My Ass Off.....

    Whatever, scooter. Rush is a hate-spewing conservative, just like Coulter. You just like them because they're spewing your kind of hate.

    hate-spewing conservative
    ----------------------------

    Also known to sane people as a conservative that will tell the truth no matter how unpopular

    I didn't see tonight's episode but is it safe to assume that Olby proposed the idea that Ken Lay commited suicide?

    Why not,,,thats whats all over the moonbat websites Mr. SprayCanTanMan reads........that or the BFEE had him killed.

    Keith's quote on Ann's alleged plagiarism:
    ------------
    "...virtually word-for-word..."

    Huh?

    James,
    "Rush is a hate-spewing conservative, just like Coulter."
    Just like Keith Olbermann spews hate for the Left right?

    Whatever James, I'll bet alot more hate was spewed during 2006 commencement speech's against Bush and Right thinking folks,than you could find in all of history by all conservatives. You go first and find one, just one Rush spewing hate quote.

    James wrote: >Wrong again, KfK. When you make a plea agreement in a case where you've been nailed for illegally obtaining perscription drugs... then you are found with percription drugs not in your name (an apparant violation of that plea deal), you deserve what comes to you.

    Ahhhh . . . I see! So even though it is legal to have a doctor prescribe the drugs to himself for you, even though that is what Limbaugh said, and even though he did nothing wrong, he deserved to have the world know he takes Viagra? Okey Dokey!

    You libs are really grand! You claim it is the conservatives who are out to take freedoms away from people, then condone violating medical privacy. You claim to be worried about an overreaching Government, then give us the Kelo decision which allows the Government to take anyone's property for another private venture. What's next on the liberal agenda? Gulags?

    Meltdown is now in the Dead Pool
    NBC will purge Keith like a loose stool
    He says ratings are hot
    So why still in last spot?
    His mom’s a teacher but she sure raised a fool

    So what if Ann Coulter forgot a few citations? What kind of nutcase would nitpick about such things?

    Will Joe Biden be called upon to comment on the plagerism issue??

    No Dan,

    I believe Teddy Kennedy will be the point man on this one. He merely had someone take a test for him at Haaavaaaad.

    It's become a familiar refrain
    O'Donnell D Milbank the Brain
    Never is heard
    a discouraging word
    As Olbermann circles the drain

    Do the 4:00 a.m. reruns of Scoopy Do get higher ratings than Miss Odorman's game show in prime time? The last ratings showed that even Headline News got more viewers than Miss Odorman's prime time run. They have to love that at BSNBC.

    "Do the 4:00 a.m. reruns of Scoopy Do get higher ratings than Miss Odorman's game show in prime time? The last ratings showed that even Headline News got more viewers than Miss Odorman's prime time run. They have to love that at BSNBC."

    I bet you thought you were pretty clever when you wrote that, huh Tom?

    "From Ann Coulter, talking about what taxpayers have funded: 'A photo of a newborn infant with its mouth open titled to suggest the infant was available for oral sex.'

    "From The Flummery Digest: 'The title of a photo of a newborn infant with its mouth open suggested that the infant was available for oral sex.'"

    Well, that's plagiarism all right. Any comments, Coultersnots?

    Caught the openings of "Countdown" and a repeat airing of "The Daily Show" tonight. The graphic in the Olbermann's over-the-shoulder box was titled "Missile Command" and was an EXACT replica of the graphic in Jon Stewart's over-the-shoulder graphic. The title was the same, the colors were the same, the font was the same. It was an EXACT copy.

    I reiterate that "The Daily Show" was a repeat, meaning they've had the graphic for a couple weeks. Comedy Central is owned by CBS, so why are MSNBC and Keith lifting graphics from another "news" outlet?

    Caught the openings of "Countdown" and a repeat airing of "The Daily Show" tonight. The graphic in the Olbermann's over-the-shoulder box was titled "Missile Command" and was an EXACT replica of the graphic in Jon Stewart's over-the-shoulder graphic. The title was the same, the colors were the same, the font was the same. It was an EXACT copy.

    I reiterate that "The Daily Show" was a repeat, meaning they've had the graphic for a couple weeks. Comedy Central is owned by CBS, so why are MSNBC and Keith lifting graphics from another "news" outlet?

    Why no mention of Keith's coverage of the fact that Bush was trying to use the NSA to eavesdrop on calls within the US BEFORE 9/11 or the administration's shut down of the OBL unit of the intelligence community? An inconvenient fact? (You remember OBL - the guy actually behind the attacks on 9/11?)

    James, I missed the "hate" spewed by Rush. Can you provide some examples? Or even ONE example?

    Betty because we don't lend any credibilty to wild eyed accusations.An inconvenient fact?(You remember the kind the KO's and Rathers and NYT make with regularity)

    Yes thrill. I love ANN COULTER. She does no wrong. Her shit don't stink.LOL Hope she makes tons of $$ so she can keep exposing the facts about Academia, MSM, Democrats and all the rest.
    And if she didn't properly credit a quote it takes nothing away from the book she has written.

    Rush and hate speech? Surely you jest!
    "[A]nytime an organization has the word 'peace' in it, throw it out. It's just a bunch of long-haired, maggot-infested, dope-smoking, FM peace-types that have an agenda." - Rush Limbaugh, March 16, 2006

    Watch out for the peace agenda, everyone!!!!

    Liberals are trying to "SwiftBoat" Ann Coulter. This is hilarious. The pathetic examples displayed show similarities in theme, but none are word for word. Drooling Coulter haters are also hyperventilating over an alleged voting impropriety. She bears the Limbaugh mantle well. Bring it on.

    Random thoughts

    Betty, are you honestly trying to say that the quote you posted is worse than things that Al Franken, Randi Rhodes and the rest of the AA crowd have said? If so, you have no credibility at all.

    All these little "ahead on CD" things that KO does during commercials, why does he keep looking quickly to the desk on his right (about where KB1 claims the laptop was). Is he checking her blog for the latest, or Kos for what to say next?

    Apparently KO was preoccupied last week. The "Ann Coulter pulls a Joe Biden" story was all over the internet at least early last week. He's late to the party again.

    And mistakes abound in the Rush story. It was not the "Florida State's Attorney's office." It was the Palm Beach County State's Attorney. The case has been forward to the Dade county SA's office because that's where the prescription was actually written. While Rush is off the hook in PBC, Dade's SA still has a chance to save the day for KO and Libs everywhere.

    KO was all over the board on the "phone tapping" story. He said they asked for "records" then went on about the NSA wiretapping program(2 different programs, Keith.) Actually, even if the Admin tried to start wiretaps in Feb 2001, wouldn't that actually show that the Admin was taking the threat of terrorism seriously and taking steps to track terrorists and stop their plots?

    The question wasn't whether Rush was worse than AA, the challenge was "find one, just one Rush spewing hate quote." I obliged. Or do you question my charactarisation of his comment as hate speech? Was he just trying to further the dialogue?

    And if the admin was taking the threat of terrorism seriously Bush would have been reading his daily briefs. Sheesh!

    As has been shown a thousand times my dear Betty, you can thank 'Bubba' Clinton for UBL.

    http://www.infowars.com/saved pages/Prior_Knowledge/Clinton_let_bin_laden.htm

    In an effort to follow the cable net trend of "cross-branding," MSNBC will soon be airing movies in certain primetime slots.

    Not to worry though, all the films will be news-themed.

    The opening slate will include such classics as "Network," "Broadcast News," "The Front Page," "Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy," "The Bad News Bears" and "Superman."

    It is rumored that George Clooney's "Good Night, And Good Luck" would make its cable broadcast premiere on MSNBC, which ironically is newsman Keith Olbermann's favorite movie. More ironically, it would be broadcast over two nights, thus pre-empting Keith's show both nights.

    MSNBC chairman Dan Abrams says he wants "...to shake things up a bit. People are really getting tired of breaking news." He added "...there's really nothing going on right now." Plans are also in the works to add re-runs of news-themed sitcoms as well.

    The question wasn't whether Rush was worse than AA, the challenge was "find one, just one Rush spewing hate quote."

    That was hate?

    Wow, hate has been watered down considerably.

    Seemed more like derision.

    Or do you question my charactarisation of his comment as hate speech?

    I do.

    Was he just trying to further the dialogue?

    I doubt he cares one way or the other, but you'd have to ask Rush.

    And if the admin was taking the threat of terrorism seriously Bush would have been reading his daily briefs.

    Yes, because several year old intel with no actual info is vital. I mean, the terrorists attacked federal buildings in NYC, right?

    I'm not sure I take the left seriously if they try to pretend that the PDB actually reveals squat --- and that identical briefings hadn't been handed down for years prior.
    -=Mike

    Here's some hate.

    "Screw them" That's what the dean of moderation and tolerance, Markos Moulitsos Zuniga, said about four civilian contractors getting killed in Fallujah. All of them were war veterans.

    No, the left loves the military. Why on earth would a conservative think that the left is unpatriotic or rooting for us to lose?

    OK, the URL didn't work, but I went to the Infowars site. You really use this as your source, Crash? This nutcase has a flashing banner that offers info about "Bush's Nazi and Occult Ties." The site owner predicted the 9/11 attack in a July 2001 television taping when he warned that the Globalists were going to attack New York and blame it on their asset Osama bin Laden. I've never even heard AA go that far!

    However, your GOP obligatory "Blame Clinton" response has been duly noted. You make Rove proud.

    The article was originally posted in the LA Times by Monsoor Ijaz.

    Points you might have expanded on.

    1. N Korea has nukes and testing intercontinental ballistic missles, why are we fixated on Iran, who has neither? Could it be OIL?

    2. Bin Laden caused 9/11 and you call that griping? What a hypocrite. After all the time conservatives spent spinning the lie that Saddam was connected to Bin Laden and 9/11, you just shrug your shoulders as they disband the unit. I wonder how the police officers and fireman of New York feel about it. I think Cut and Run from Bin Laden would be an appropriate description.

    3. Waas's reports have been the most carefully researched of all and you have no reason to doubt him. He has proven accurate over and over again at connecting the dots.

    4. I don't know what you think a plagiarism expert looks like. You know as well as anyone, you can catch a lot of plagiarism just by using Google. This guys program just has access to a lot more documents. Probably searches LexusNexus I would guess. Frankly, Coulter should have her columns yanked by every paper dumb enough to publish them. Unfortunately, since people are addicted to "what's she going to say next", she'll probably get a pass anyway. No one really cares what she says as long as its shocking and that's all the more a tragedy.

    So what have we learned, boys and girls? That hate speech is subjective. If a progressive/libera/democrat says it, it's hate. I never claimed that left didn't have it's nutcases who are over the top? Why can't you guys own yours?

    Somebody pleeeeeez give me an example of the anyone saying they want us to lose in Iraq. Those words. Not "they want us to get our troops out and that means we lose!" Who has said they want the United States to lose? I hear this all the time from the divisive faction of the right.

    Oil just closed at a record high today. How is this about oil? Stability means lower oil prices.

    What exactly has Coulter said that is so shocking? That there are four 9/11 widows who can dish it out but can't take it.

    1. N Korea has nukes and testing intercontinental ballistic missles, why are we fixated on Iran, who has neither? Could it be OIL?

    It's easier to STOP somebody from getting nukes than to deal with them after the fact.

    If all we wanted was oil, we'd simply give them money.

    2. Bin Laden caused 9/11 and you call that griping? What a hypocrite. After all the time conservatives spent spinning the lie that Saddam was connected to Bin Laden and 9/11

    We did? When?

    Bin Laden was tied to Saddam. That is simple reality.

    Who said Saddam was behind 9/11?

    A link would be beneficial as well.

    I wonder how the police officers and fireman of New York feel about it. I think Cut and Run from Bin Laden would be an appropriate description.

    You, of course, would be wrong on that.

    3. Waas's reports have been the most carefully researched of all and you have no reason to doubt him. He has proven accurate over and over again at connecting the dots.

    Continue obsessing over a non-issue if you must.

    4. I don't know what you think a plagiarism expert looks like. You know as well as anyone, you can catch a lot of plagiarism just by using Google. This guys program just has access to a lot more documents. Probably searches LexusNexus I would guess. Frankly, Coulter should have her columns yanked by every paper dumb enough to publish them.

    To hell with allowing views you don't agree with!

    Somebody pleeeeeez give me an example of the anyone saying they want us to lose in Iraq. Those words. Not "they want us to get our troops out and that means we lose!" Who has said they want the United States to lose? I hear this all the time from the divisive faction of the right.

    It's actions and behaviors.

    Which, as you know, speak louder than words.
    -=Mike

    Joel Stein wrote an op-ed called "I don't support our troops". He unabashedly is against the US troops. You cannot say that we are terrorizing women and children in the middle of the night (thanks Kerry) and then say in the same breath that you support our troops. Kerry (and all democrat politicians for that matter) has to know that his comments are going to be published all over the world as further justification that the fight against the infidel is a good one.

    I cannot, for the life of me, understand how the dems can say that we must win the propaganda war and then say the terrible things that they say. Its one thing to be a civilian to say these things; its another to be the head of the DNC and say that the war can't be one.

    Ok, the CIA disbanded their Bin Laden group. The NSA is still after him, as are DIA and special forces troops in country. The US has not given up the search, just CIA. CIA has done a piss poor job at counter-terrorism the last 10 years anyway.

    This is probably a good thing, as it will involve fewer bureaucracies.

    I don't know why everyone is so bent out of shape about N. Korea. Clinton and Carter got that agreement with them years ago. It's all about containment. N. Korea is contained, and therefore not a threat.

    Ole Brian over at TV Newser is touting Olby beating Bill O for 15 minutes last Friday. Can't remember if Bill was rerun or sub.

    "...virtually word-for-word..."

    Keith is actually defending Ann Coulter with this idiotic oxymoron. He's basically saying that her statements are ALMOST word-for-word.

    virtually - for the most part; almost wholly; just about.

    The loons flew low over Manhattan
    Then an orange one tried to chase after 'em
    But while they flew west
    The eyebrowed one only flew left
    so embarassing, even they coulnd't watch him

    Karl Rove was standing, looking out over the Atlantic. Watching the unusually high surf roll in. Opie spotted him and broke the Rove v Wave story.

    Ole Brian over at TV Newser is touting Olby beating Bill O for 15 minutes last Friday. Can't remember if Bill was rerun or sub.

    The O'Reilly show was a repeat from May 17.

    "It's actions and behaviors."

    Nope, no logic there. You can assert whatever you want based on "action and behaviors" based on your interpretation of them. I mean, you might get the idea that the Bush administration hates gays and blacks if you look at "actions and behaviors."

    And that is equally stupid/

    scooter said: "Yes thrill. I love ANN COULTER. She does no wrong. Her shit don't stink.LOL Hope she makes tons of $$ so she can keep exposing the facts about Academia, MSM, Democrats and all the rest.
    And if she didn't properly credit a quote it takes nothing away from the book she has written."

    It means she's a plagiarist. And she's open to a lawsuit form the original writer, the one she ripped off.

    And there has never been anything resembling a fact in any Ann Coulter book.

    "ALMOST word-for-word."

    Almost word for word is plagiarism, idiot.

    Some anonymous person said:

    "Somebody pleeeeeez give me an example of the anyone saying they want us to lose in Iraq. Those words. Not "they want us to get our troops out and that means we lose!" Who has said they want the United States to lose? I hear this all the time from the divisive faction of the right."

    OK, check this out:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/jensen12132004.html

    -OM

    He’s the moonbat that spews the mistruth
    All his friends can fit in one phone booth
    Accusations toward Ann?
    And he’s banging a fan?
    Total meltdown for Keith the Uncouth

    Ann Coulter is not a plagarist simply because Keef O says she is. Ann Coulter becomes a plagarist when she is convicted and sanctioned. This will never happen. Keep drooling , idiots.

    I can't begin to tell you just how sick I am of old washed-up hippies like Olbermann. They think Iraq is Viet Nam, and Bush is Nixon, and everybody is lieing to them. And their rights are being taken away, and civil rights are gone and on and on. I'm 45 and I thank god every day I wasn't born earlier. Those fucking hippies tried to fuck-up my America once before, I think they are doing it again.

    I can't begin to tell you just how sick I am of old washed-up hippies like Olbermann. They think Iraq is Viet Nam, and Bush is Nixon, and everybody is lieing to them. And their rights are being taken away, and civil rights are gone and on and on. I'm 45 and I thank god every day I wasn't born earlier. Hippies tried to ruin my America once before, I think they are doing it again.

    Ann Coulter becomes a plagarist when she is convicted and sanctioned. This will never happen

    No, Ann Coulter becomes a plagiarist when she plagiarizes--which she did. No one is convicted of plagiarism because it is not a crime, but a violation of intellectual property laws and ethics. She could be sued by the original author, and, based on the evidence I've seen, she would lose.

    Coulter's plagiarism reflects on her ethics. She is effectively stealing the intellectual property of others. Unfortunately society doesn't see this as very important, as Ambrose and Goodwin have gotten away with it. As will that harvard girl who got caught recently (even though I think her publisher recalled her books. Good for them.) But it is unethical, and based on Ann's comments and rhetoric, completely unsurprising.

    "The pathetic examples displayed show similarities in theme, but none are word for word."

    Ahem:

    "From Ann Coulter, talking about what taxpayers have funded: 'A photo of a newborn infant with its mouth open titled to suggest the infant was available for oral sex.'

    "From The Flummery Digest: 'The title of a photo of a newborn infant with its mouth open suggested that the infant was available for oral sex.'"

    Glad I cleared that up.

    In one example, Coulter wrote: "The massive Dickey-Lincoln Dam, a $227 million hydroelectric project proposed on upper St. John River in Maine, was halted by the discovery of the Furbish lousewort, a plant previously believed to be extinct."

    Here's the Portland Press Herald, from the year 2000, in its list of the 'Maine Stories of the Century': 'The massive Dickey-Lincoln Dam, a $227 million hydroelectric project proposed on upper St. John River, is halted by the discovery of the Furbish lousewort, a plant believed to be extinct,"

    I asked for the example of the example of people who want us to lose the war because I hear this non-stop from the those exploiting the division between the right and left.

    RE: Jensen. As I said before, I think there are wingnuts on both sides, and I don't agree with his position. I appreciate that he included a paragraph stating that he has taken heat from many liberals who don't agree with him. He made it clear he isn't speaking for the majority of the left, yet some insist on painting us all with that brush. Why?

    RE: Stein - He says he doesn't support the troops. Not a position I agree with, but I didn't read where he said they should lose, or that he celebrates their deaths or injuries.

    Re: Kerry - Does anyone care about context, or do you depend soley on sound bites for your information? Kerry was talking about the admin slogan "We'll step down when the Iraqis stand up." Nightly raids into homes are going on in Iraq to track down insurgents. At the time he made that statement, the US Troops were the ones heading into the homes first, with the Iraqis following behind. He was saying that this was a perfect place for the Iraqis to step up...send them into the homes first. They should be trained to that much by now...and wouldn't it help to alleviate the anti-american sentiments over there if we aren't the ones going in. Imagine a bunch of armed guys busting into your house in the middle of the night. I, for one, would be terrified. And that's what he was saying. Why are we the ones that are terrifying people....put the Iraq army or police in there to do it.

    Now, dear Mike didn't give an example of "we want the US to lose." All he brought to the debate was "It's actions and behaviors." So perhaps dear Mike is a mind reader, he seems to understand everyone's intent so well. Please tell me the intent of the Bush administration when they continually refused to provide enough protection for our troops in Iraq, or when they cut veteran's benefits.

    Abe,

    SO WHAT? Coulter is not lifting anything of substance, and the sentences are changed enough that they are not reproductions. What next? How about this:

    On page 42 of Coulter's book: "On February 14th, it was cold and rainy"

    In the weather section of the paper: "February 14th was cold and rainy"

    AHA! What an example of PLAGIARISM!

    Give me a break wacko!

    Abe, you confirm my point with every post you make. I see no plagerism. Let me know when the civil suits are filed and she is sanctioned. Until that happens, you my friend, are pissing up a rope.

    Wow Anonymous, you comment on plagiarism without knowing what it is. To rebut:

    2. Whether she's lfting anything of substance or not is irrelevant.

    2.The sentences are not chnaged enough. There's one word changed (or added) in some exmaples. Again, educate yourself about plagiarism.

    3.Your example is a very simple sentence, and the Coulter examples are far more complex.

    Please attempt to figure out what you're talking about before you call someone a wacko, idiot.

    "I see no plagerism."

    How convenient. Any non-biased person who knows what plagiarism is can see it. Anybody like that here?

    Ok, i'll give you one "Ann Coulter is a plagiarist, if you give me one " Bill Clinton is a rapist". Juanita Broaddrick's account is chilling, although Clinton was never sued.

    Juanita Broaddrick's account is chilling, although Clinton was never sued.

    He wasn't sued because Broaddrick muddied the waters with her inability to keep her story straight.

    The FBI investigated as a part of the Paula Jones inquiry and found Broadddrick's account to be inconclusive. Then there is the fact that she filed a sworn affidavit in 1992 denying Clinton did anything to her (she recanted in 1998).

    DavidBrock,

    Your give and take offer is interesting, but the facts for Coulter's plagiarism are clear, while Clinton's rape allegations have plenty of problems (outlined above).
    How about Coulter=plagiarist, Clinton=adulterer?

    Clinton was found by a federal judge to have obstructed justice by lying under oath and as a consequence was disbarred. No legal findings have been made by any tribunal regarding allegations of plagiarism by Ms. Coulter.

    Coulter = alleged plagiarist
    Clinton = lying obstructor of justice and disbarred lawyer.

    How's that, Abe?

    No legal findings have been made by any tribunal regarding allegations of plagiarism by Ms. Coulter.

    Dope, plagiarism isn't something you can sue for specifically or get a finding of fact from a court. It is within the scope of copyright law (specifically the section on copyright infringement).

    It's is a crme of academia - the plagiarist is trying to pass off another's thoughts and ideas as their own. If such a person is caught, it brings doubt upon their entire body of work because questions arise as to how much of it is really their own as opposed to someone else's theories.

    From Betty Boop:

    ---------------
    I asked for the example of the example of people who want us to lose the war because I hear this non-stop from the those exploiting the division between the right and left.
    ---------------

    And I gave you one example. Now I suppose you want me to supply *ten* examples.

    ---------------
    RE: Jensen. As I said before, I think there are wingnuts on both sides, and I don't agree with his position. I appreciate that he included a paragraph stating that he has taken heat from many liberals who don't agree with him. He made it clear he isn't speaking for the majority of the left, yet some insist on painting us all with that brush. Why?
    ----------------

    Because otherwise they would not be making statements that embolden the enemy? Are they so naive as to think that the enemy and the rest of the world is not listening to our national dialog? Are they so irresponsible as to insist that somehow it *shouldn't* matter? Maybe in a perfect world... But how about bringing reality into the equation?

    ----------------
    RE: Stein - He says he doesn't support the troops. Not a position I agree with, but I didn't read where he said they should lose, or that he celebrates their deaths or injuries.
    ----------------

    On the other hand. Such statements encourage our enemies and thus endanger the soldiers that are tasked to fight them. His statements are reckless. The enemey IS listening.

    -----------------
    Re: Kerry - Does anyone care about context, or do you depend soley on sound bites for your information? Kerry was talking about the admin slogan "We'll step down when the Iraqis stand up."
    -----------------

    Not a slogan. A statement of resolve so that no enemy will assume that they can simply wait us out.

    -----------------
    Nightly raids into homes are going on in Iraq to track down insurgents. At the time he made that statement, the US Troops were the ones heading into the homes first, with the Iraqis following behind. He was saying that this was a perfect place for the Iraqis to step up...send them into the homes first. They should be trained to that much by now...and wouldn't it help to alleviate the anti-american sentiments over there if we aren't the ones going in.
    ----------------

    Pretty easy to take pot shots from 6,000 miles away, isn't it. And this from a person that thinks it is possible to fight a 'nice' war. Does Kerry also think one can somehow insulate civilians from the collateral effects of fighting a ruthless insurgency that cynically uses innocents as shields for their murderous agenda. Kind of depends on what your definition of 'war' is, I guess.

    ----------------
    Imagine a bunch of armed guys busting into your house in the middle of the night. I, for one, would be terrified. And that's what he was saying. Why are we the ones that are terrifying people....put the Iraq army or police in there to do it.
    ----------------

    You would be terrified... Yes, I guess so. But how about the terror you might feel as a target when insurgents initiate a drive-by assault on civilians purchasing fruit at the neighborhood produce market? Might you not realistically feel a little less terrified knowing that the authorities are taking measures to preempt such inhumane activity? But do you honestly think such actions should be lead by rookie recruits rather than disciplined and well trained soldiers?

    ----------------
    Now, dear Mike didn't give an example of "we want the US to lose." All he brought to the debate was "It's actions and behaviors." So perhaps dear Mike is a mind reader, he seems to understand everyone's intent so well.
    ----------------

    I can't speak for Mike, but he was, at least in part, correct. There is clearly a class of American citizens who really and truly want to see the American initiative in Iraq fail. Can you say "self hate"? How about "neuroses"?

    ----------------
    Please tell me the intent of the Bush administration when they continually refused to provide enough protection for our troops in Iraq, or when they cut veteran's benefits.
    ----------------

    Both assertions need to be substantiated, friend...and I don't mean anecdotally. Remember that Congress must approve funding for such programs. Regarding the assertion that the Bush administration 'cut' veteran's benefits, please see:

    http://www.factcheck.org/article144.html

    regards,

    -OM

    Here we go with the "But Clinton did it....." arguments. Stick to the facts: Coulter plagiarized. Plain as day.

    "The massive Dickey-Lincoln Dam, a $227 million hydroelectric project proposed on upper St. John River in Maine, was halted by the discovery of the Furbish lousewort, a plant previously believed to be extinct."

    It's is a crme of academia - the plagiarist is trying to pass off another's thoughts and ideas as their own. If such a person is caught, it brings doubt upon their entire body of work because questions arise as to how much of it is really their own as opposed to someone else's theories.

    From the example you provided, where's the "thoughts and ideas" that were plagiarized? Looks like a simple statement of facts to me...where's all the copied "theories" that would lead us to question her entire body of work?

    Let's not forget how Olberdunce really feels about Ann Coulter. Need I post that email again?

    Boy, I had some laughs reading the site from the woman who was used and discarded by the President of the He-Man Woman Hater's Club.

    Olberfraud's defenders are more pathological than Clinton Kool-Aid drinkers. No amount of evidence produced coupled with apologies or silence from Olbertwit can persuade them that maybe, just maybe, their hero isn't all he purports to be.

    What a pathetic bunch.

    Looks like a simple statement of facts to me...where's all the copied "theories" that would lead us to question her entire body of work?

    If the facts are not "common knowledge facts" (ex. The United States and her allies won WWII), then taking facts from a source and repeating them verbatim (or nearly verbatim) without crediting the original source is textbook plagiarism.

    "It's is a crme of academia - the plagiarist is trying to pass off another's thoughts and ideas as their own. "

    If this is the definition of plagiarism you would like to use I have trouble seeing the plagiarism in any of the quotes used so far. They seem to be not thoughts or ideas but simply stated facts about the given subject.

    Abe wrote:

    "Here we go with the "But Clinton did it....." arguments. Stick to the facts: Coulter plagiarized. Plain as day."

    You were the one who tried to let Clinton off easy by stating that all he did was commit adultery and I responded by stating the true nature of his transgression. So, now that I exposed your attempt to minimize Clinton's wrongdoing you suddenly don't want to talk about it anymore. Typical libs.

    It's all very funny considering the Kiethster reads a teleprompter for a living. Anyone also notice that his exchange with the "Terrorst Expert" seemed almost rehearsed? Uh-oh, I'm broaching upon Olby like conspiracy thinking myself here!

    The hatred for Ann Coulter is self-evident, as she makes monkeys of the left in all her books, which, if the haters took the time to read them, would see they are thoroughly researched and footnoted. To think someone as intelligent as Coulter would plagiarize is nonsense.

    It's not as if she's using forged documents to try and influence a presidential election; of course, the Kool-Aid drinkers fail to even acknowledge that bit of dirty laundry, which only destroyed CBS News and Dan Rather.

    Essentially, the left is just afraid of a strong, powerful, intelligent woman. They prefer their women meek and docile, to be used and discarded. Should they dare to speak out, they are to be silenced, harassed and destroyed. The Clinonistas would know all about that.

    To think someone as intelligent as Coulter would plagiarize is nonsense.

    And yet she did, according to this software. And before you go tearing into its credibility, let's see who uses iParadigms software:

    UCLA, Georgetown University, the California State University system, Auburn University, UC-Irvine, The U.S. Military Academy, All Universities and Colleges in the United Kingdom, the [i]New York Post[/i] and the World Bank.

    I think their bona fides speak for themselves...

    But where is the proof?

    Why isn't the book being recalled?

    Just because a pathological liar like Keith Olberfraud says something doesn't make it so.

    You obviously have no experience in publishing, so I won't bore you with details.

    A computer, I wonder whatthe odds are that a computer with no grasp on context can pull the same sentence from one article, and then find the same from the millions of other previous sources?

    "But where is the proof?"

    Joe, The proof is in the thread.

    Oh, and for you Coulter defenders: Plagiarism is also using the words (or even the sentence structure) of others without quotation marks. even if you cite your source. But Coulter did not use quoations and did not cite.


    In one example, Coulter wrote: "The massive Dickey-Lincoln Dam, a $227 million hydroelectric project proposed on upper St. John River in Maine, was halted by the discovery of the Furbish lousewort, a plant previously believed to be extinct."

    Here's the Portland Press Herald, from the year 2000, in its list of the 'Maine Stories of the Century': 'The massive Dickey-Lincoln Dam, a $227 million hydroelectric project proposed on upper St. John River, is halted by the discovery of the Furbish lousewort, a plant believed to be extinct,"

    Of course a Berkeley guy like John Barrie, desperate for some attention, is going to be objective when it comes to Ann Coulter.

    What I find amusing is none of the points in the book can be refuted. All it has become is a seek-and-destroy mission.

    Hey, if the publisher and her syndicator document enough evidence that she's a plagiarist, so be it. I won't be losing any sleep. But some of you will still blindly follow Olberfraud despite his documented fraud.

    "From Ann Coulter, talking about what taxpayers have funded: 'A photo of a newborn infant with its mouth open titled to suggest the infant was available for oral sex.'

    "From The Flummery Digest: 'The title of a photo of a newborn infant with its mouth open suggested that the infant was available for oral sex.'"

    Wow, Repost, you really have the goods on her now.

    I guess it's curtains for her.

    Yawn.

    So I guess you read the whole book?

    So I guess you read the whole book?

    Yeah, it's a great cure for insomnia...

    What's the matter Joe? Clear evidence of plagiarism make you sleepy?

    Every day, I hear the MSM reciting the same DNC talking points. If this is what's considered plagiarism, then the network news wouldn't have anyone left to report every night. Good grief.

    I could see if she used some forged documents like Dan Rather and Mary Mapes, but a couple of lines out of a news account does not qualify as plagiarism.

    Nice try, kiddies. Mommy has some pablum for you before your nap.

    Joe,

    You can SAY it's not plagiarism, but that only shows your ignorance my friend.

    And nice childish comment at the end.

    Abe--I can say you're intelligent, but that would display my ignorance.

    Ann's next book is going to be about plagarists and then the people questioning a sentence will feel the wrath.There are real plagarists to be exposed and she's the one to do it. These people are going to make her a billionare.

    Focussing on the parenthetical is a common moonbat tactic. So what if Ann Coulter may have missed an insignificant footnote? The sheer number of footnotes in her books indicate her intent to credit all sources. I seriously doubt she's trying to pass off factual news accounts as her own work. Get a life.

    It's not insignificant - Universal Press Syndicate (the company that sends Coulter's column out) is going to conduct an investigation into the allegations that Coulter lifted whole pieces of other articles for her columns.

    Ann Coulter certainly doesn't fear criticism from the NY Post. She deliciously rips the Post a new one in her column today. Has the NYTIMES pulled her #1 best seller from their list? Of course not. The entire Coulter plagiarism scandal is found only in the blue blogosphere, which of course includes the Olby Show.

    www.anncoulter.com

    Abe, you can't engage in the 'but Clinton did it too' debate in one post and then in the next say ' here they go again with Clinton' stuff.
    I will stiputate, however, to the adultry for plagiarism trade.

    Betty Boop,

    Thanks for the response, but I don't think that's considered hate. It may in fact be truthful, or at worst, hyperbole. But it's not hate.

    "So what if Ann Coulter may have missed an insignificant footnote?"

    She copy and pasted text without credit or qoutation marks. It's a plagiarism double play.

    "Has the NYTIMES pulled her #1 best seller from their list? Of course not."

    Well, I have to agree. Nothing really happened to Stephen Ambrose, and, to be fair, his plagiarism was greater in scope. Goodwin had to settle with an author, I believe, and she lost a lot of credibility (including mine. She should have been booted swiftly form her Harvard overseer position.) Personally, I would sue if someone didn't attribute quotes/ideas properly--just on principle. Anybody who does it is unethical or sloppy.

    Nope, no logic there. You can assert whatever you want based on "action and behaviors" based on your interpretation of them. I mean, you might get the idea that the Bush administration hates gays and blacks if you look at "actions and behaviors."

    If you have an IQ below room temperature, yes, you would think that.

    If you're educated to even the most rudimentary level, nah, you wouldn't.

    The Dems couldn't WAIT to convict the soldiers of the Haditha "massacre", which is looking more and more like BS every single day. We have former Democratic Presidential candidates and prominent speakers at the Convention fasting alongside Cindy Sheehan, who is as loathesome as traitor as the world has ever seen.
    -=Mike

    Sorry, everyone. Haven't been around the computer for a while... here's a perfect example of Rush 'hate speech.'
    ------------------------------------------

    Rush Limbaugh Show, April 27, 2005

    "And, the religious left in this country hates and despises the God of Christianity and Catholicism and whatever else. They despise it because they fear it, because it's a threat, because that God has moral absolutes. That God has right and wrong, that God doesn't deal in nuance, that God doesn't deal in gray area, that God says, 'This is right and that is wrong.'"
    -------------------------------------

    I'm a liberal. I'm also a devout Christian. While I'm sure most every conservative on this site will defend Rush's statement as not being hate speech... they are wrong.

    Rush is polarizing the right and left with this statement, and classifying liberals as heritics. That, folks, is hate speech.

    (By the way, KO doesn't use hate. He uses facts. If those facts make some people look bad, that's tough. And before you try to classify Rush's statement as fact... blanketing all liberals as hating the Christian God is not a fact).

    Feel free to point to the "hate".
    -=Mike

    Ann Coulter says it is a fact in her book. You may have heard about it. But NOT dealing with the premise that the Left is Godless. No you heard big mean Ann said the Jersey Girls profited from there husbands death,etc. and she had a sentence that was similar to one published elsewhere(GASP). Dispute that the Left in this country is anti religious. But nobody on the left is disputing the book Godless. They are attacking the messenger.

    Ann Coulter says it is a fact in her book. You may have heard about it. But NOT dealing with the premise that the Left is Godless. No you heard big mean Ann said the Jersey Girls profited from there husbands death,etc. and she had a sentence that was similar to one published elsewhere(GASP). Dispute that the Left in this country is anti religious. But nobody on the left is disputing the book Godless. They are attacking the messenger.

    Rush and Ann are both correct the left is Godless. Abortion alone leaves the left blowing in the breeze. Fighting to take down the ten commandments. Not wanting God in the pledge of allegiance. Not wanting christians to pray at football games. No moment of silence even. The ACLU is a Liberal anti christian Democrat supporting group. Can a devout christian be pro choice? Can a christian vote for the party of the ACLU and the doctrine it supports? Is it hate speech to ask these questions?

    MinSC,

    Dems couldn't wait...blah blah blah. Complete untruth.

    Yes, Mike is SUCH a difficult name to spell. I'm shocked more people can't spell it properly.

    Dems couldn't wait...blah blah blah. Complete untruth.

    Murtha and Kerry both deemed it as a war crime LONG before any actual study was done on the incident.

    But, hey, that was probably a fluke.
    -=Mike

    "Dispute that the Left in this country is anti religious."

    Don't the talking head repubs always say that 85% of Americans identify as Christian? I suppose none of that 85% is on the left? Right.

    "Abortion alone leaves the left blowing in the breeze. Fighting to take down the ten commandments. Not wanting God in the pledge of allegiance. Not wanting christians to pray at football games. No moment of silence even."

    Left leaning Christians can and do believe these things. Is it so hard to believe that a Christian might want to keep religion seperate from government, not only to protect government, but religion as well?

    The left is godless!! Now some Democrats may fit your description. The ones that vote Democrat because of the union they belong to. Or those silly enough to vote based on skin color. I guess that leaves the 15% hard core leftists as godless. But they do make a lot of noise. So much in fact normal citizens flee the Democrat party. Thats how Reps won the senate, house, presidency and by GOD were only a couple of heartbeats away from a much needed swing in the supreme court.

    Mike (did I spell it right),

    Please provide a source for your allegation.

    Anonymous you in a good mood? because i got a JOKE for you. You took the last one way to serious. Alright ready? Abe,James and Anonymous walk into a gender neutral bar......JTs the bartender.

    ..and scooter's the drag queen on stage.

    You are in a better mood. Very funny i didn't know what gender neutral meant, drag queens and stuff. Very enlightening chatting with you. LOL

    The left is not Godless. The left is all about inclusion, compassion and helping others.

    For every conservative who throws abortion rights at a liberal... I'll throw the death penalty right back at them.

    No one is perfect when compared to Christ. But, being Christian in no way points to your political affiliation.

    James,
    the death penalty is for those that have comitted brutal acts of murder or rape or both. Abortion kills an unborn child. That is why you are a liberal because you see it the opposite way.

    >The left is all about inclusion, compassion and helping others.

    That's right! Include everybody in social experiments whether they like it or not, include everybody in untenable taxation schemes whether they like it or not, help others by looking down your nose at them and throwing cash at them instead of helping them help themselves, force people to go to crappy schools rather than give them school choice, take property from private citizen A and give it to private enterprise B, and the list of goodies goes on and on. If you want to see the left in charge, take a trip to France or Germany and live there for a while.

    The left is all about "feel good" politics with none of the harsh realities so prevalent in the real world. It's great for hippies, lazy people, stupid people and power-crazed Hillary Clinton types.

    Annymous, if you don't like Democratic politics, that's one thing. You're entitled to that opinion. I'm probably more of a fiscal conservative, anyway.

    The point I was making had to do with religious stances. I simply stated the left was not "Godless."

    Correct -- the left is more "brainless" than "Godless"

    James shared:

    -------------
    I'm a liberal. I'm also a devout Christian. While I'm sure most every conservative on this site will defend Rush's statement as not being hate speech... they are wrong.

    Rush is polarizing the right and left with this statement, and classifying liberals as heritics. That, folks, is hate speech.
    -------------

    Hardly. First of all, he doesn't use the word heretic (nor 'heritic'). Second, I see no use of inflamatory language nor epithets in the statement - typically these components are the hallmark of hate speech. Finally, the polarization is occuring regardless of Limbaugh's commentary. He is simply putting voice to the perceptions of ordinary Americans who have noticed a distinct and disturbing tendency in the collective liberal mind set.

    -------------
    (By the way, KO doesn't use hate. He uses facts. If those facts make some people look bad, that's tough.
    -------------

    He truly does 'use' facts. In fact, he abuses them. He often takes a given fact out of context and applies a very biased spin to it in a very subjective and self-serving fashion. You really must listen more analytically if you fail to see this.

    Listen once to exactly how he phrases his questions when interviewing his sycophantic guests. You will almost inevitably notice that such queries tend to be extremely leading and carefully crafted to guarantee a specific response confirming his very biased speculation. So much so that often his guest wouldn't even have to add anything further to flesh out the premise and conclusion imbedded in the 'question'. Get it - his questions aren't questions at all, they're statements of forgone conclusion.

    -------------
    And before you try to classify Rush's statement as fact... blanketing all liberals as hating the Christian God is not a fact).
    -------------

    I don't listen to Limbaugh but, in the quote that you have provided, he was apparently talking specifically about the *religious* left. I guess that does include you however as a "devout Christian" - I don't quite get why he makes that particular distinction. Refardless, it certainly can be no secret that left thinking types in general tend to believe that the Constitution guarantees freedom *from* religion (as opposed to freedom *of* religion). And many of them insist that there can be no official recognition of the role that religious faith has played and continues to play in our society. That observation if undeniably factual.

    -OM

    James,
    "By the way, KO doesn't use hate. He uses facts. If those facts make some people look bad, that's tough. "
    Yeah right. Keith Olbermann uses Propaganda techniques that would make Goebells proud. Robert and Johnny Dollar have debunked Keith Olbermann many times. The fact is Olbermann supports Radical Leftists causes, Islamo-Fascism and Child molestation. He's a disgusting filty hack and a liar!

    Mike (did I spell it right),

    Please provide a source for your allegation.

    http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/story?id=2013939&page=1
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838343/
    -=Mike

    "By the way, KO doesn't use hate. He uses facts. If those facts make some people look bad, that's tough. "


    Ok, so uin James world, it's a fact that Ann Coulter is "less attractive" than Michael Moore? And she has been photographed with a (crudely photoshopped) eye patch on?

    Those are factual?

    Mike, From your link:

    "On Wednesday, Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said the accounts are true.

    Military officials told NBC News that the Marine Corps' own evidence appears to show Murtha is right."

    Looks like Murtha is going on the results of the military's investigation. Are the "military officials" referred to here also acting "LONG before any actual study was done on the incident"?

    "One military official says it appears the civilians were deliberately killed by the Marines, who were outraged at the death of their fellow Marine.

    “This one is ugly," one official told NBC News."

    So there was an "actual study" done. I mean these are YOUR links Mike. You can say that Murtha should wait until all investigations are concluded, but you shouldn't lie about him.

    >So there was an "actual study" done. I mean these are YOUR links Mike. You can say that Murtha should wait until all investigations are concluded, but you shouldn't lie about him.

    I agree -- just ignore Murtha. He is about to be thrown out of office soon anyway. I expect to see him lecturing to Code Pink in his underwear after the elections. Perhaps Murtha will hook up with a post-hunger-strike-svelte Cindy Sheehan once his congressional life is over?

    OM,

    Your posts are excellent and a credit to OlbermannWatch. Keep up the good work.

    Anon,

    When you ask for "one example" of someone on the left saying they want the U.S. to lose in Iraq and you GET "one example" of same, the best thing to do is shut up and stop making a fool of yourself.

    They can't do it Robert. They live in a parallel universe where what they say is right and what everyone else says is wrong. Olbermann is their King, and God and everything else in-between. And he simply is incapable of being wrong. Even when we prove he is on a nightly basis. You almost have to feel sorry for these fools. Almost.

    So there was an "actual study" done. I mean these are YOUR links Mike. You can say that Murtha should wait until all investigations are concluded, but you shouldn't lie about him.

    The investigation was not nearly finished.

    It STILL isn't finished.

    Notice how a report has yet to be issued? I supposed you'd have noticed that, but I've been disappointed before.

    But, hey, defend somebody who accuses the military of war crimes on exceptionally shaky evidence.
    -=Mike

    it certainly can be no secret that left thinking types in general tend to believe that the Constitution guarantees freedom *from* religion (as opposed to freedom *of* religion).

    OM - the freedom from religion is the first right listed in the Bill of Rights, just before the freedom of religion.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

    No law respecting an establishment of religion. Now if that isn't granting people the freedom from religion I don't know what is.

    No law prohibiting the free exercise [of religion]. That is the statement that grants people the freedom of religion.

    And many of them insist that there can be no official recognition of the role that religious faith has played and continues to play in our society.

    It seems like you're suggesting that we should change the Constitution just because religion is important to our society. Guess what--religion was important to society when the Bill of Rights was written, but our founding fathers recognized that for people to live without oppression from it's government the freedom of and from religion must be granted. But if you want the Bill of Rights to be changed you can go right ahead and try to amend the first amendment. Good luck.

    No law respecting an establishment of religion. Now if that isn't granting people the freedom from religion I don't know what is.

    It actually only means there can be no official religion of the US.

    Which there isn't.

    Nor has there ever been.

    It seems like you're suggesting that we should change the Constitution just because religion is important to our society. Guess what--religion was important to society when the Bill of Rights was written, but our founding fathers recognized that for people to live without oppression from it's government the freedom of and from religion must be granted. But if you want the Bill of Rights to be changed you can go right ahead and try to amend the first amendment. Good luck.

    Nah, we can just go the route of the courts and make idiotic arguments.

    It worked with abortion.
    -=Mike

    I've learned from johnny "what 4th amendment" dollar not to argue with a person who doesn't understand the Constitution.

    Hey MikeSC:

    How about Article VI, Section 3 of the Constitution?

    "...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

    Gee, why would the framers put that in there? Could it be they wanted to keep the churchhouse out of the statehouse? After all, if you make a religious test, you are holding one religion above the others.

    No, it's because they didn't want somebody's faith to DQ him from office --- i.e, a person of Jewish faith should not be DQ'd from office.

    Is it hard to follow the logic or something?
    -=Mike