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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    July 17, 2006
    TVN: Journalism at its finest - Part VI

    NAMELast week, when we published Ratings You WONT Find on TVN - #74 what we meant was that TVNewser was not likely to draw attention to the fact that Paula Zahn was back on top after KO's brief fling with ratings glory in the absolutely-crucial-life-has-no-meaning-without-it-world-renowned-25-to-54-demo. What we didn't realize is that not only would TVN not bother to note the "news" that KO has dropped back to third just days after a slobbering piece in The New York Times touting KO's rise to #2 (in the demo) but he would actually INFLATE Countdown's ratings (in the demo).

    Countdown got 162,000 homes in the demo - not 167,000.


    Posted by Robert Cox | Permalink | Comments (36) | | View blog reactions
    user-pic

    36 Comments

    I usually refrain from responding to posts unless they are incorrect, like this one. The allegation made here is false; I have not inflated Countdown's ratings. The numbers I post are "LS," which means they include DVR users who watch the program the same day it airs. Nielsen started providing this type of data several months ago.
    The ratings published by your source are live ONLY. They do not include same-day DVR viewership. Hence, there's a slight disparity between the two sets of numbers.
    I've included the raw Nielsen data for Tuesday, July 11 to demonstrate this:

    NOTE: LS = Live + Same Day
    LS: 07/11/06 - 07/11/06

    MSNBC: COUNTDOWN W/ K. OLBERMANN 8:00P
    0.2 167 404

    Just shows to go how consistently full of shit are Cox and his local band of resident brain dead bloviators ... johnny dollar, KfK, hank, scooter, Pat Fegan, Emporer palpatine. Lying scumbags all. Consistently.

    Will Robert Cox apologize? Or will he blame it on Krazy Keith?

    Check the Friday ratings just posted on TVN. Very close again between Countdown and Zahn ( Hah!! )

    "Cox and his local band of resident brain dead bloviators ... johnny dollar, KfK, hank, scooter, Pat Fegan, Emporer palpatine. Lying scumbags all. Consistently."

    makes perfect sense. just like the lying fascist scum they blindly follow and willingly support.

    not LYING fascist scumbags, that`s the people they follow (and none to blindly, mind you!). the Rightists here are merely foolish followers, which just makes them STUPID fascist scumbags. (can`t wait to hear the swift boating retorts to Brian`s response, Brian`s source, Brian`s webmaster, Brian`s college journalism professor ... you get the idea.)

    Dear Robert,

    I would think that your point about whitewashing Olbermann's horrible ratings is worth Brian's consideration. Keith recently enjoyed a media frenzy and has the following ratings to show for it:

    The Scoreboard: Friday, July 14

    25-54 demographic:

    1. O'Reilly 417,000
    2. Zahn 348,000
    3. Grace 112,000
    4. Olby 98,000

    Total viewers

    1. O'Reilly 1,765,000
    2. Zahn 956,000
    3. Grace 352,000
    4. Olby 296,000

    Olbermann has tons of free press and a war to boost his numbers, yet he ends up in dead last with horrible ratings. Where is Brian's analysis of this?

    Good point, KfK. Except one minor problem, you are changing the subject. We are waiting for Robert Cox' six page apology letter to Brian.

    That's Bob's business! I am in the business of Olberrating the evil KO!

    `I`m such a wacky nut, dabbling in thing`s and place`s I have no knowledge of.`
    ---from the diary of `factorfiction`

    KfK -- quick answer to your question:
    Anderson Cooper gets a ton of press, a lot more than Olbermann. Do I analyze his ratings on a daily basis? No. Bill O'Reilly gets lot of press, too. Do I analyze his ratings on a daily basis? No.
    Why not? Because a dissertation about the daily ups and downs would give everyone a headache. These numbers rise and fall on a daily basis like a roller coaster ride.
    Occasionally, I write about peculiar and abnormal ratings days(example: Olbermann beats O'Reilly for 15 minutes). I do that precisely because they're abnormal!
    But generally, I only pay attention to the monthly and quarterly numbers, because those numbers are more reliable. When the July ratings come out, I'll take a close look at the numbers. If Olbermann has ceded his #2 positilon in the demo to Paula Zahn, I'll certainly write about it. (Just like I wrote about Hardball's decline: http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/june_s_preolympic_ratings_for_hardball_39227.asp)
    I hope this helps answer your question.

    Wow...I actually got to read some posts critical to Olbermannwatch BEFORE they were deleted! It's a magical day...

    AND OUR NUMBER FIVE STORY TONIGHT ...

    wait till you see the footage on bush's overheard comments at the G8. what a stupid fuck. sittin' there stuffin' his face like the ignorant shit kicker he is, half cracker, half little uppity blue blood pussy -- all hat and no cattle ... with no brains beneath. what a prissy little a--hole. swaggerin' shit on a stick. just like the fools here who follow him. the moron didn't even have enough brains to see that his mic was on, blair had to point it out. nice little prick you shitheads shill for.

    " When the July ratings come out, I'll take a close look at the numbers. If Olbermann has ceded his #2 positilon in the demo to Paula Zahn, I'll certainly write about it."

    Brian, maybe I'm reading the numbers wrong, but according to your chart, he's already ceded it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in June 2006 demo #s I get:

    O'Reilly: 402,000
    Zahn: 167,000
    Grace: 136,000
    Olbermann: 106,000

    source:
    http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/original/june06ranker.pdf

    Oh yeah, Bush is always the prissy little bitch. Needs a good bitch slappin`, and from a cell mate. Wait till you read the G8 transcript. Here`s Blair, explaining to little beeyatch how diplomacy works. That it takes time. That you need an international presence. That people need to be contacted. And all the while little beeyatch feeds his face like the stupid sixth grader he is.

    Prezdent Prissy Bitch

    Hi folks!

    I just got back home after a day out on Long Island Sound and see that my little post as caused some consternation while I have been away. I received two text messages from Brian, I see now he's posted here twice and he sent me in an email. And - surprise, surprise - a few of the OlbyLoons have chimed in as well. The text messages were brief, asking me to "call ASAP". Unfortunately, although I can view text messages on my phone I can't send replies. Even if I could have send a reply I doubt I would have interrupted a lovely day on the water for this baloney.

    For those who care, Brian's email reads:

    ======================

    Bob,

    An e-mailer just alerted me to your most recent post. Your allegation is false; I have not inflated Countdown's ratings. The numbers I post are "LS," which means they include DVR users who watch the program the same day it airs. Nielsen started providing this type of data several months ago.

    The ratings published by ICN are live ONLY. They do not include same-day DVR viewership. Hence, there's a slight disparity between the two sets of numbers. ICN's numbers have traditionally come from Fox News, and they only provide the live data. My numbers come from three other sources, and they include live and same day viewership. I've included the raw data for Tuesday, July 11 to demonstrate this.

    NOTE: LS = Live + Same Day
    LS: 07/11/06 - 07/11/06

    MSNBC: COUNTDOWN W/ K. OLBERMANN 8:00P
    0.2 167 404

    On June 22, ICN addressed this issue: "...It was brought to my attention that they differed slightly from TVNewser's numbers. Now I understand why there's a difference. Some nets include DVR data with their ratings. It's called Live Plus. Mine don't include that data. The difference is usually marginal so if you see a difference like that again in the future that's why."
    http://insidecable.blogsome.com/2006/06/22/wednesdays-numbers-15/

    Please correct the record on your blog accordingly. Thank you,

    ===========================

    There is a false statement in here but it isn't mine.

    My ratings information did not come from ICN. I am not going to waste time checking but those who are concerned can check with Spud - not only did my ratings information not come from ICN but I am not even aware that ICN published this ratings information. And, even if he did, I was unaware of it. I would also ask those checking to find out, if ICN did not publish this data to note WHEN they published it because my guess is that they published it AFTER my original post on July 13 at 8:27 PM. That TVN had some back and forth with ICN last month is hardly relevant to Olbermann Watch. A better question might be why ICN raised exactly the same issue last month and not asking why would I do so today [hint: it has something to do with failing to disclose your sources and provided links to or copies of the data you are referencing in your posts.

    Brian is now saying (1) that he failed to disclose in the post I linked that there are TWO sets of ratings data to choose from and (2) that he chose the ratings that inflate Olbermann's numbers. In other words, my statement "he would actually INFLATE Countdown's ratings (in the demo)" is accurate. The ratings he chose to report DO inflate Olbermann's numbers.

    Perhaps folks are reacting to the word "inflate" which can be interpreted more than one way. One interpretation might be that Brian "falsified" the ratings data, another might be that Brian "exaggerated" the ratings data and still another might be that Brian "puffed up" the ratings data. Brian himself wrote "The numbers I post are 'LS,' which means they include DVR users who watch the program the same day it airs. Nielsen started providing this type of data several months ago.

    I went back just now and looked at the post in question and I do not see ANY footnote or disclaimer that the ratings published in the post I linked are "LS" or anything else. They simply say they are the numbers for the 25-54 demo. I guess it would not be as sexy to write a headline that says "Olbermann Beats Paula Zahn...in the 25-54 demo...in the version of the demo which claims to add in DVR/Tivo Viewers...of those who watch the recording they made on the same day". Apparently it's better to write "Olbermann Is #2" even when Zahn has three times the total audience of KO.

    Regardless, there are two dogs not barking here:

    DOG ONE: What Brian has neglected to mention is that there are not two sets of ratings data but three sets - Live, Live Same Day, Live Same Week. The new ratings data is part of an attempt by the networks to charge advertisers for Tivo'd shows. He also failed to mention that the "new" numbers he is attempting to reference are HIGHLY controversial. Since he doesn't mention the controversy he is also not mentioning that the controversy revolves around the networks attempting to inflate their ratings to try and charge advertisers for people who do not watch a particular show live. This is an old issue going back to when the networks convinced advertisers to pay for people who taped shows on their VCR - research eventually showed that only a small percentage of taped shows were actually watched. The advertisers are very concerned about getting burned again and establishing a new, higher rate based on DVR (Tivo) recordings of shows. I don't know much about which networks are attempting to push the new Tivo-adjusted ratings but it sounds like Brian knows that CNN and NBC Universal ARE pushing the inflated numbers and Fox News Channel is not. Somehow, it comes as no surprise that Brian has adopted a new set of ratings data that is being pushed by his two favorite networks - MSNBC and CNN. Brian also does not mention that the networks are not closing deals on the new Live + Same Day rates and that some big advertisers have announced they are going to hold off buying all together and look more at the Internet. And what's funny about this is that he so often tells readers that the reason he promotes the 25-54 demo numbers is because those are the numbers ADVERTISERS care about. So, why is the basis for his featuring "the demo" what the Advertisers care about but two months ago he switched to a new set of numbers for that demo that the advertisers not only don't care about but are fighting tooth and nail.

    Dave Leonard at The New York Times wrote an excellent piece on this controversy:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/17/business/media/17leonhardt.html

    In case you don't subscribe, here is the money passage from the article:

    Advertisers are still smarting from their timidity back in the 1980's, when VCR's started catching on and Nielsen decided that its ratings would include people who taped programs rather than watching them live. The truth, of course, is that many recorded shows never end up being watched.

    "We've lived with that decision for 20 years, and we're still living with it," said Lyle Schwartz, the research director at a company called Mediaedge:cia, which negotiates with networks on behalf of advertisers. "Advertisers don't want to pay for people who don't watch their shows."
    With the stakes much larger this time around, Nielsen has started releasing three different ratings for every show. The first is the old-fashioned version, which counts the live audience (as well as the VCR audience). The second includes people who watch the show on their DVR within 24 hours, while the third adds everybody who watches within a week of a show's broadcast. Mr. Schwartz and his firm are pushing Nielsen to go even further and calculate separate ratings for a show and for its commercials.

    Network executives, as you may guess, have done their best to pooh-pooh the impact of TiVo. The head of sales at ABC said a few months back that he would not even negotiate with advertisers who insisted on using only Nielsen's live ratings. The networks also released a study suggesting that DVR owners remember as much about commercials as people without the devices, which is clearly ludicrous.

    DOG TWO:

    Brian writes "I usually refrain from responding to posts unless they are incorrect, like this one." As this is the SIXTH post I have written in the past few days about TVN's "credibility" and "journalistic integrity" or lack therefore - none of which prompted Brian to post - it seems we can take Brian's post here today as a backhanded affirmation of the criticism contained in THOSE posts. As I have already demonstrated that the post above is also correct, it seems Brian would be better served by spending his time attending to his own blog and not worrying about this one.

    Interesting point Mr. Dollar.

    Wow, Bob. That's a long comment. Here's a short response:
    How does MSNBC judge Keith Olbermann's success or failure at the network?
    The ratings.
    What set of ratings does MSNBC (and CNBC and CNN and Headline News) rely on?
    Live + Same Day.
    What set of ratings does MSNBC use to judge Olbermann's show?
    Live + Same Day.
    Then shouldn't we use Live + Same Day to judge Olbermann's show, also?
    Yes.
    Do I use the same set of data for every program on every network?
    Yes.
    So, by your logic, I'm "inflating" the ratings for every program on cable news, right?

    Brian,

    How about Mr. Dollar's point? Keith runs around claiming second place in the demo. Mr. Dollar posted numbers to the contrary. Wht wait until July to clarify?

    What about Keith's June numbers Brian? Brian . . . are you there?

    RCox:

    rcox writes '[r]atings glory in the absolutely-crucial-life-has-no-meaning-without-it-world-renowned-25-to-54-demo.'

    if bo had 3 million viewers but all of them were in the 54+ age group, he would be off the air. remember lawrence welk?

    that 25-54 age group, as unfortunate as it is, is the target group of advertisers. with no advertising money, no show-regardless if you like the show or not.

    i have noticed that ko brags about his growth in that age group and bo's shrinking numbers. if this is true, advertisers will eventually shift their advertising money to the show that is growing that group. won't be all at once, a little less for bo, a little more for ko. and on, and on, and on.

    we can get into why this slow shift away from bo, i would happy to expand.

    Do you mean to tell me that all of the ratings hysteria and gloating and accusations and conspiracy theories we've been reading for the past umpteen months at this site from the idiots who live here is because johnny dollar, RCox, and KfK have a misguided fixation with the cherry-picked, rationalized info rambled above in Regardless, there are two dogs not barking here:?! are you really serious? you guys are stridently and quixotically opposed to the following? (in an inexplicably OCD/narcisstic behavioral-disorder kind-of-way).

    Then shouldn't we use Live + Same Day to judge Olbermann's show, also?
    Yes.
    Do I use the same set of data for every program on every network?
    Yes.
    So, by your logic, I'm "inflating" the ratings for every program on cable news, right?

    are you fucking kidding me? when it`s applied across all shows? what a farce. OlbyWatchers, you people really ARE morons. talk about having a pre-determined agenda. talk about making the intelligence fit the decision. what a bunch of losers. and here it is, all in black and white. just the way ya'll like it. what fools. wait till Keith hears about THIS. Ha!
     

    Wait, a difference of 4,000 on DVD now constitutes a lie?

    TVN is Olby's bitch and everyone can see it. Olbermann lies about his own ratings "We're up 10,000 percent over that time period and O'Reilly has dropped a zillion percent in the same period".

    What crap.

    O'Reilly is the Globetrotters and Olby is the Washington Nationals when it comes to ratings.

    End of story. Period, TV Newser was exposed here time and time again and when he gets one meager, perhaps not even substanitive point, he then repsonds.

    TV Newser is a joke and gets national publicity because he's an Olby kiss-A$$

    Brian,

    You have made a false statement about the source of my ratings data. Since you are so concerned about records being corrected how about correcting that false statement? While you are working on your apology let me note that you have elected to ignore the many excellent points in my reply to your "concerns".

    Are there are two sets of ratings data or three? You got that wrong, didn't you?

    The use of "Live + Same Day" and "Live + Same Week" is highly controversial and is hardly as standard as your attempting to portray it, right?

    You claim you use "the demo" ratings because that's what advertisers use. Now you claim you use the Live Plus ratings because MSNBC uses them. I have already shown that advertisers DON'T like the Live Plus ratings - in fact, they hate them. Maybe you can explain why you criteria for what ratings "count" and which don't seems to change to whatever suits MSNBC and - to a lesser extent - CNN?

    I am glad you are now revealing that you are using these newly concocted "Live Plus" numbers but there is no such indication in the post I linked to - or did I miss something? Since the issue is now on the table can you provide SOME link where you cover this topic on TVNewser?

    You now say "by your logic, I'm "inflating" the ratings for every program on cable news, right?" Right! The question is WHY are you inflating all the numbers? You say it's because MSNBC does this. You also say Fox News uses only the Live ratings. If they only use the live ratings at Fox News then why not report the ratings THEY use to evaluate O'Reilly? Why is the MSNBC approach better than the Fox News approach?

    More to the point, since we are apparently in agreement that you are inflating the ratings for cable news I am not sure why you are asking for me to correct my post.

    Oh Shit, You Really ARE Morons sez:
    "wait till Keith hears about THIS. Ha!"

    Pillow talk for later, after the rounds at the glory hole-o-rama, eh dude?

    The kid at TVNewser refuses to address his endless defense of Olbermann, and hangs on some silly argument about a few thousand demo viewers.

    Regardless of who's right about this, he cannot deny that he posts something when Olbermann gets even 15 minutes of positive ratings or beats Zahn, yet posts nothing when he gets crushed (he's finished 4th in Brian's "demo" at least three times in the past three weeks, see last Friday for another bitter lowpoint).

    He's on the record as saying he'll jump on any opportunity to make Olbermann appear more competitive (http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/olbermann_beats_oreilly_for_15_minutes_in_the_demo_on_friday_39631.asp), and posts every single personal attack Olbermann makes on Fox News anchors. Yet curiously, when Olbermann attacked Anderson Cooper the other night from his comfortable Secaucus studio while AC was en route to Israel, TVNewser was silent. He doesn't want to show his readers examples of Olbermann embarrassing himself or going completely off his rocker.

    Speaking of CNN, I disagree that it is one of TVNewser's "favorite networks." Lately, when MSNBC got slightly closer to CNN & CNN Headline News in TVNewser's coveted "demo," he started belitting CNN. The most despicable example was when this kid, who has probably never visited Africa in his life, had the gall to criticize a Nic Robertson report from Sudan. Say what you want, the guy was risking his life during this report, and if the kid ever has a job interview at CNN, it's difficult to believe they'd forget a cheap shot like this. (http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/cnn/cnn_hypes_exclusive_darfur_mob_video_36559.asp)

    The classic examples of TVNewser's overt bias toward Olbermann come from both Lloyd Grove scandals. The first time, the kid REFUSED to post a link to Grove's article until enormous pressure was put on him to do so (http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/msnbc/gossip_gets_ugly_33934.asp). When he finally gave in, the kid said Grove "took Olbermann's statements out of context" and "personally attacked" him, which is almost Olbermann's exact quote about the matter.

    Then, of course, is the issue that's already burned TVNewser and embarrassed it all over the internet, his laughable defense of Olbermann in the inexcusable e-mail debacle. (http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/msnbc/people_harass_keith_olbermann_he_responds_and_lloyd_grove_prints_the_responses_38521.asp). Olbermann, who personally attacked a fellow colleague, supposedly took the high road here, according to TVNewser. He simply "responded." How noble. And thanks for not taking sides. We now know from the forthisreliefmuchthanks.blogspot.com site that the Cosby e-mail was in fact sent to his girlfriend. A site that by the way, TVNewser removed from his site after about two hours.

    If you want to succeed in television and be respected in the industry, why on earth would you align yourself with the 3rd place cable news network, which isn't even really cable news anymore now that it has decided to air documentary programming instead of breaking news. And why would you align yourself with one of cable news' most unstable opinion commentators, who in all likelihood will be doing sports full-time beginning in March?

    It's a mystery. But there are a lot of people who would sure like to know what TVNewser is getting, if anything, in exchange for his constant promotion and spin in favor of MSNBC and Keith Olbermann.


    >there are a lot of people who would sure like to know what TVNewser is getting, if anything, in exchange for his constant promotion and spin in favor of MSNBC and Keith Olbermann.

    -yawn. The Keith-Obsessed Olby-Haters should quit while they're way behind on this thread. You're embarassing yourselves.

    There are a lot of pissed off people based on the comments for this blogpost. However, it's hard to understand where Bush comes in to play when discussing the remarkably poor ratings that Countdown continues to garner.

    How long will MSNBC continue to delude themselves into thinking Countdown or Hardball are ratings winners. This is a freaking business. The business decision is clear to most sane business persons. Improve ad revenue or put someone in there that will. What is so hard to understand about that. Air America was worth taking a shot at, but the owners have been in denial in dealing with the results. Nothing new here.

    popvulture wrote: "Wow...I actually got to read some posts critical to Olbermannwatch BEFORE they were deleted! It's a magical day..."

    I'd like to thank popvulture for stopping by and providing the clear thinking readers on this site with yet another textbook example of the OlbyLoon mentality. As any real reader of Olbermann Watch knows, I don't delete posts from Olbermann Watch. Other than that you've made an interesting point.

    Brian said this:

    " When the July ratings come out, I'll take a close look at the numbers. If Olbermann has ceded his #2 positilon in the demo to Paula Zahn, I'll certainly write about it."

    Mr. Dollar pointed out the JUNE NUMBERS:

    O'Reilly: 402,000
    Zahn: 167,000
    Grace: 136,000
    Olbermann: 106,000

    source:
    http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/original/june06ranker.pdf


    In response brian pointed us to this informative site:

    http://www.naturesongs.com/cricket1.wav

    the posted exchange between BrianTVnewswer and RCox is a perfect example of the latter's self-serving, rationalized, fantasy-based view of reality. par for the course for a bush loving fascist -- and both morons share the same lack of reality-based reasoning. when you read RCox rambling on and on about TVNewser ratings and how misleading they are, it's the same as hearing how great things are going on the ground in Iraq -- if only the MSM would report all the good news we're missing out on. RCox, you're such a rationalizing moron, as this latest BrianTVnewswer exchange amply demonstrates.

    + + +

    You have made a false statement about the source of my ratings data. Since you are so concerned about records being corrected how about correcting that false statement?

    Which false statement is that?


    While you are working on your apology let me note that you have elected to ignore the many excellent points in my reply to your "concerns".

    being a self-serving, rationalizing hysteric -- your petty, quibbling points are more than worthy of being ignored.


    Are there are two sets of ratings data or three? You got that wrong, didn't you?

    petty, self-serving quibbling. making something out of nothing, just like falafel man's war on christmas.


    The use of "Live + Same Day" and "Live + Same Week" is highly controversial and is hardly as standard as your attempting to portray it, right?

    sez you. and since you're always full of shit ...


    You claim you use "the demo" ratings because that's what advertisers use. Now you claim you use the Live Plus ratings because MSNBC uses them.

    yes, brian changed from the demo ratings to the live+ ratings, and was up front about it -- posting a message on his site regarding the change. so what? oh, that's right, since you're an externally-referenced hysteric, if it doesn't suit you, then it's wrong. what a self-serving, rationalizing douchebag you are.


    I have already shown that advertisers DON'T like the Live Plus ratings - in fact, they hate them.

    sez you. and since you're always full of shit ...


    Maybe you can explain why you criteria for what ratings "count" and which don't seems to change to whatever suits MSNBC and - to a lesser extent - CNN?

    if brian changes back from Live+ to Demo you might have a case there. short of that, your argument is hollow.


    You now say "by your logic, I'm "inflating" the ratings for every program on cable news, right?" Right! The question is WHY are you inflating all the numbers? You say it's because MSNBC does this. You also say Fox News uses only the Live ratings. If they only use the live ratings at Fox News then why not report the ratings THEY use to evaluate O'Reilly? Why is the MSNBC approach better than the Fox News approach?

    Why is the Fox News approach better than the MSNBC approach? got anything substantive, besides your own agenda-based, rationalized opinions, to back it up?


    More to the point, since we are apparently in agreement that you are inflating the ratings for cable news I am not sure why you are asking for me to correct my post.

    because your post implies that brian is inflating only the countdown ratings, rather than reporting all shows with the same ratings. which is why you are a fantasy-based, self-serving, rationalizing ubber idiot, just like your decider-in-chief.
     

    robny:

    you answered your own question as to why msnbc sticks with countdown and hardball...it's a business and the advertisers are sticking with countdown and hardball. the advertisers pick which show they want to interrupt and they have picked those (as well as many others).

    Is that UbberLoser or UberLoser? We Nazi's prefer the correct Germanic term "Uber" so if that term is in reference to me please make sure to amend your posts accordingly. For now let me refer to YOU as the alternate - UbberLoser.

    There seems little point in wasting much energy on UbberLoser but here are a few quick points...

    ==============================
    RC: You have made a false statement about the source of my ratings data. Since you are so concerned about records being corrected how about correcting that false statement?

    UL: Which false statement is that?

    RC: He said that my ratings data came from Inside Cable News when they did not. He also based a good portion of his "defense" to his having "clarified" this matter with ICN which is entirely irrelevant both because I have nothing to do with ICN and the ratings I published did not come from ICN.
    ===============================

    RC: The use of "Live + Same Day" and "Live + Same Week" is highly controversial and is hardly as standard as your attempting to portray it, right?

    UL: sez you. and since you're always full of shit ...

    RC: Actually, I backed this up with a link to and quote from The New York Times. Read it and get back to me on this. Yawn.

    =================================

    RC: You claim you use "the demo" ratings because that's what advertisers use. Now you claim you use the Live Plus ratings because MSNBC uses them.

    UL: ...yes, brian changed from the demo ratings to the live+ ratings, and was up front about it -- posting a message on his site regarding the change.

    R: Wow! I am not aware that Brian posted a message about this change on his site. I asked Brian for a link and he refused to provide one. Since you know about it perhaps you can provide that link here. Thanks!!!

    ==================================

    RC: I have already shown that advertisers DON'T like the Live Plus ratings - in fact, they hate them.

    UL: sez you. and since you're always full of shit ...

    RC: Again, check the Times article. Yawn, Yawn.

    ==================================

    UL: Why is the Fox News approach better than the MSNBC approach? got anything substantive, besides your own agenda-based, rationalized opinions, to back it up?

    RC: I did not say it's "better". I noted that, according to Brian, Fox News does not consider Live Plus ratings to be meaningful. That is not "my agenda" but rather something Brian claimed. If you doubt it then give him a ring. My view is that since Fox News owns most of the cable news audience there approach more accurately represents the consensus on how cable news viewers are analyzed. It is certainly true that they sell more in ads than MSNBC with its paltry 10-15% of the total cable news audience. We can debate that question but to act as if it is "settled" that MSNBC's reliance on Live Plus Same Day is the industry standard is incorrect.

    =======================

    RC: More to the point, since we are apparently in agreement that you are inflating the ratings for cable news I am not sure why you are asking for me to correct my post.

    UL: ...because your post implies that brian is inflating only the countdown ratings, rather than reporting all shows with the same ratings.

    RC: I am sorry if you can't read a chart or graph but I clearly posted a screen grab for the ratings data referenced in the post which included ALL ratings for all cable news programming from 6p to 11p. I also stated a fact - that TVN is inflating Countdown's ratings (in the demo). Since you can't read too well let me explain that if TVN wanted to use a new, controversial of the ratings data he ought to have mentioned the specific type of data he was using in the post I linked (all posts for that matter). In fact, this is something Brian had promised to do months ago but has only done rarely:

    http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/a_note_about_ratings_data_34505.asp

    =========================

    I look forward to you providing the link to the post where Brian "changed from the demo ratings to the live+ ratings, and was up front about it -- posting a message on his site regarding the change." because I could not find that link and I would like to post it as an update to the post above. Thanks again and have a nice day.

    It's been a few months so I am going to take it hat UbberLoser is still looking for that "missing link".

    Did you see Brian Stelter's latest post on Keith Olbermann? I will give him credit, nobody cherry-picks from articles (or alleged reader 'e-mails') better than him.