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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    September 27, 2006
    COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN - SEPTEMBER 27, 2006

    "COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" (8:00 P.M.-9:00 P.M. ET)

    Host: Keith Olbermann

    Topics/Guests:

    • N.I.E. POLITICS: EJ Dionne, Washington Post
    • THE EIGHT MONTHS LEADING UP TO 9/11: Paul B. Kurtz, Richard Clarke's former right-hand man
    • TALIBAN RESURGENCE: Michael Hirsh, Newsweek
    • CELEBRITY SEX TAPES HAVE GONE TOO FAR: Paul F. Tompkins, comedian

    When Keith began his carnival barker patter to kick off The Hour of Spin, he bellowed about "the old switcheroo", adding:

    The National Intelligence Estimate, the President so reluctantly released, the one that says the War in Iraq increased the terror threat, the one for which he is getting pounded, may not be the latest National Intelligence Estimate. Rep Harman says there's a newer one, and the White House is deliberately keeping it under wraps.

    Seriously, is Olby off his meds? The NIE is classified. A "newer one" that doesn't even exist yet would also be classified. And Herr Olbermann thinks that keeping classified intelligence "under wraps" is a screaming headline?

    The spiel also promised a "special investigation" proving Condi Rice is [think John McLaughlin's voice here] WRONG, and, as a special bonus, an attack on the New York Post.

    Launching into the NIE story, KO interestingly read, for the first time, that portion of the NIE that Olbermann Watch specifically upbraided him for not reading yesterday. Another victory for the clear thinkers. Then clips from Schumer (D) and Boehner (R). What's this? He actually ran a balanced set of clips? This must be some sort of Olbermannian trick. Something's coming.

    Olby said the "new" NIE is "allegedly only a draft". Then a clip from Harman (D), who wants the "draft" released now, so selected portions can be leaked before the election. Well, she didn't say that last part. Clip of Tony Snow about why the "draft" isn't ready to be released. The House passed a bill regarding detainees, with nonpartisan Keith adding:

    A victory at what cost remains to be seen.

    "Monkey" Olbermann cited unnamed "international legal scholars" for the proposition that the bill violates the Geneva Conventions. All of this was just a warm-up for Olby's "special investigation" on why Bush let 9/11 happen. The rhetoric was thick and ripe:

    Comparing the two Presidents is valid, necessary, to illuminate the capacities of the office.

    The latest Olbermann theory is that, while the notion that Clinton had a chance to get UBL is myth, in fact it was "Mister" Bush who offered UBL and declined to take him:

    Our goal in this report is to rise to Mr Clinton's challenge and assess the record of Mr Bush's efforts in Al Qaeda in his first eight months in office.

    There followed a recitation of events straight out of the Clarke handbook. Krazy Keith amplified it with claims by Bill Jefferson Clinton and admitted liar Sandy Berger, reporting as if these were proven historical facts. A fuzzy clip of Berger referred to the situation as "nothing less than a war". Curious, given that for months Olby has been telling us the threat was exaggerated and the war on terror "so-called". Maybe one of the clear-headed Olbermann Watch readers can identify what website KO lifted this from.

    Regarding the USS Cole, KO complained that "Mister" Bush did not take military action even when it was established that Al Qaeda was responsible. Heroic far-seeing Democrats warned that focusing on missile defense was "misplaced" [clip of Levin (D)]. The August 6th PDB gets another plug, even though the intelligence it contained was not exactly fresh. Clips of Condi and Cheney et al talking about they didn't anticipate this kind of a hit. Prescient Diane Feinstein (D) wants to press for more counter-terrorism measures.

    This was worse than watching paint dry. It was like sitting in a too-small classroom desk, listening to a stuffy, boring professor reading a press release from a left-wing propaganda site. We don't want to say that it was painful, but it felt like an hour in a dentist's chair. And worst of all, when it was over, it wasn't over. The break served only as a brief respite until the Clarke propagandist was given the floor.

    The infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann was very careful to limit the questions to only Bush's eight months, all the better to keep Clarke's doppelganger from expressing any of his frustrations with the previous inhabitant of the White House. Kurtz said the Bush administration wasn't "sitting on its hands", but was playing defensively. They didn't take an immediate liking to Clarke's strategy. Anything that happened was just "residual momentum" from the Clinton years. It was a "bureaucratic issue", said Kurtz.

    Olby spun a long tale about this didn't happen until then, so that proves they didn't care about terrorism, yada yada yada. Kurtz mentioned the transition, security clearances, and such, flatly stating that KO's assertion was "an unfair inference". He could have added other things that prevented getting things fully up to speed, like challenges to the electoral vote, Congressional stalling in confirming appointees, etc.

    Kurtz was even less accomodating to Herr Olbermann's bizarre theory that the Taliban offered Bin Laden to Bush, a theory KO concocted from one reporter's question at a press conference. Olby's guest dismissed it as so much "noise", like the reports of UBL's death. But he came back again to how they just didn't take Clarke's word for everything and they had to stand in line behind others whose business had greater priority. KO brought up missile defense, asking Kurtz:

    Does your blood run cold?

    His reply was that we focused on the wrong problem. Interestingly, Kurtz didn't get Great Thanksed from Keith. Just a "thank you for your time". (Take that for not parroting every word of OlbySpin!) As this mind-numbing exercise groaned to its conclusion, we thought back to the promo that had been running all day: Bush's chances to stop Bin Laden before 9/11. The only one we heard was the "offer" from the Taliban that Olby's own expert ridiculed. But don't expect the fact that a Krazy Keith theory is given no credibility by someone in the know will stop KO and the Olbypologists from flaunting it anyhow. It hasn't in the past. Just watch.

    Oddball preceded another episode of Attack the Media. It was time to slam the "Rupert Murdoch owned" New York Post. This was all about the scare that was reported today, and the "shocking" way the paper wrote it up. KO gave a self-aggrandizing version of the events, disputing the paper's claim that he insisted a check-up at the hospital. He asserts it was all the doing of the police officers, and he wanted to leave the hospital but they wouldn't let him. Then, in a classic bit of OlbySpin, he slammed the Post for:

    ...its endorsement of terroristic threats from the radical right.

    So KO knows who sent him the suspicious package? He knows it came from the "radical right"? Why doesn't he have the guy arrested? In the Anthrax attacks, despite messages that appeared to emanate from radical Islamists, investigators have been looking elsewhere, because it is not uncommon for such messages to be red herrings. But Swami Olbermann Knows All and Sees All. Maybe he should name the sender as "worst person".

    Then Keith "Man on Fan" Olbermann was off on another tear. The paper sides with terrorists, not the FBI. No newspaper should have printed this, despite Murdoch's "radical agenda". Mr Humility wrapped this unbilled "special comment" with:

    At this end anyway we are still human beings and Americans. And we would never have any problem choosing whether to support the terrorists or the FBI.

    Yeah, Olby always supports law enforcement over the terrorists (NSA surveillance, Patriot Act, sneering at "purported" plots...). Gag. Moving along: Terrell Owens, Anna Nicole Smith, Steve Irwin. #1: The sex tapes of D-list celebrities.

    MADMAN

    More maniacal pimping of Keith's book the book that bears Keith's name introduced the Media Matters Minute. Let's see who gets named in tonight's "nonpartisan" segment and whether all the necessary slots (Republican, conservative, Fox News) get filled. Runner-up: a candidate for Congress (R). Runner-up: Michael Savage. "Worst person" Roger Ailes, coupled with a criticism from Olby of his weight. Yes, this from the "anchorman" whose desk creeps a little higher every month, and whose cameraman keeps those shots tighter and tighter so as not to show his gut. Roger's crime was defending Chris Wallace, but KO found a way to make another reference (the third) to the "terroristic threats" that he has been receiving. Hey, this is even better than being on an Al Qaeda hit list! (Yup, all three slots filled.)

    NAME

    Maybe Olby thinks trumpeting his victimhood will help get those book sales back into shape. If so, he has a lot of work to do. Amazon shows him sinking again, at #69 as we write. And what of his bete-noir? Bill O'Reilly's "Culture Warrior" is currently ranked at #4. Oh, the humanity! How can this be? Keith "I'm not courting the liberals" Olbermann is running ads on Daily Kos, Talking Points Memo, and Crooks & Liars, the bluest blogs on the planet. What's more, the one-day Nielsen blip from his un-American smear of Chris Wallace has already started to dissipate. Tuesday's numbers show "Monkey" Olbermann slipping back into third place. And don't think he's on the way up. Next in store: #4. Looks like his writer is going to have to crank out another SC to keep Keith from ending up in the basement again. Tonight's MisterMeter reading: 11 [DANGER!].

    Olberverse Roundup:

    Free Market News Network: Was MSNBC's newsman Keith Olbermann's recent "anthrax scare" a warning? Rob Kall, posting at OpEd News, explores this question, as well as the furor raised by a New York Post story that purported to belittle Olbermann for his reaction to the whole incident.

    Jossip: Keith Olbermann took the opportunity on Countdown yesterday to express the severity of the envelope full of soap he received. He didn't get a lollipop on his way out, ok guys? This was really, really serious. He got a prescription for Cippro. There was also a federal investigation into the incident, which the FBI asked Olbermann not to report on. For your protection, obviously. We can't have the person who's mass mailing soap to everyone know that the FBI is on to him.

    Metroblogging New York City: The calm, yet assertive Olbermann retorts on his show here and wins and even larger place in my heart. Worth watching regardless of your political leanings, as I think we can all agree that the Post is a worthless rag.

    ICN: Keith Olbermann responded yesterday to yesterday’s Page Six item on him and deservedly shredded the New York Post for their antics.

    Question Everything: The fact that the NY Post may have interfered with a federal investigation is not the most disturbing part. Even worse is the tone in which they reported it.

    Crooks and Liars: There is a very serious side to what happened.

    fbi hop: Given the condescending tone by the New York Post Page Six staff and the fact that no other media outlet reported directly on the event, I thought that maybe Page Six was making things up.

    Done with Mirrors: ...while Page 6's stupid, ill-considered and pettily gleeful little piece inspired this post, I don't want to let the actual instigator off the hook...


    Ailes...

    ICN: ...trying to compare Roger Ailes’ comment to what happened to him leaves me nonplussed. The two are not related.

    ICN: As these insults pile up, Olbermann risks becoming the very thing he apparently despises most about FNC (judging by his previous comments); a loudmouth talking head who takes the low road with the cheap shot instead of making substantive points. Is that really what he wants to be?

    Blue Herald: Olbermann smacks Roger Ailes good.

    Newsbusters: I actually was surprised when on tonight's show, Keith Olbermann unleashed a string of jibes aimed at Roger Ailes' physique. So surprised that when Olbermann first began his barrage, with a comment about Ailes doing something "between pies," I truly wondered whether I had misheard him or perhaps misunderstood his intent. Fat jokes? Could my fellow Cornellian really be stooping that low?

    Hot Air: Olbermann calls Ailes fat eight times in seven minutes; Update: The 18-second gap

    Newsbusters Olbermann Insults Ailes Again


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (364) | | View blog reactions

    364 Comments

    No disrespect to Mr. Clarke, but it was obvious from the ABC series P2911, that he had a huge part in making that movie, as he was always shown as smarter than everyone else. And right before it gets close to airtime, he starts slamming the movie. If I were a lefty, I'd be taking a hard look at Mr. Clarke as being the one who pointed the fingers. And in some cases he was probably right on.

    Olby probably asked BJ Bill who he should interview. After all, the Intern Molester in Chief is the one Olby is desperately trying to ingratiate himself with here.

    I am going out on a limb to guess Olby will utter between five and twelve "Tora Bora"'s, and possibly three to five "outsourcing"'s during tonights sinful spin- and spite-fest.

    I wonder how much KO is paying his guest tonight?

    8 minutes til the truth.. Keith.. we speak your name.

    I hear olby gets paid only in ex-presidential DNA now. Maybe it was Klinton that sent him he soap flakes to help him clean uphis nice blue suit.

    "8 minutes til the truth.. Keith.. we speak your name."

    Yes, Keith will open his "spicket" and the truth will flow out, overwhelming us with its deep richness.

    SMG

    I see he's covering his own story tonight (another conflict of interest!) for our obligatory me-me moment. No one else would cover it, so you know he has to cry and whine about it.

    The NY Post failed to show human decency don't you know. Just like he fails to do to his enemies every single time he does Countdown.

    KO is slaying the traitorous lying Neocons, and their failure to protect the homeland, once again.

    He is a true patriot!

    Great job Keith.

    Neocons = True Traitors.

    Neocons care more about Iraq and Iraqis than America and Americans.

    As an Ex Republican, I long for the GOP of old. Fiscally responsible, smaller less intrusive gov, and semi isolationist.

    The NY Post failed to show human decency don't you know. Just like he fails to do to his enemies every single time he does Countdown.

    KO is slaying the traitorous lying Neocons, and their failure to protect the homeland, once again.

    He is a true patriot!

    Great job Keith.

    Neocons = True Traitors.

    Neocons care more about Iraq and Iraqis than America and Americans.

    As an Ex Republican, I long for the GOP of old. Fiscally responsible, smaller less intrusive gov, and semi isolationist.

    Eight months leading up to 9/11?? How bout 8 years and 8 months? Un-fair much? Yep everynight on Countdown.

    On an aside Rush Limbaugh may offer t-shirts for people born to Democrat parent/parents after Roe vs. Wade saying: I survived a Democrat pregnancy.
    Isn't that hillarious? Yes it is. And true.

    This site sure is buggy and slow.

    Like the owner, and the Keith Haters who post here!

    Pony up for some decent service you cheap greedy cons!

    Considering that Olbermann calls President Clinton, "Mister" Clinton as well as President Bush; can we please drop this stupid line of attack?

    "Neocons" ... what is that?
    Seriously.
    A "new" (neo) conservative (con)?

    What does that mean?

    Are there NeoLibs? Is that bad too?

    Neocons = True Traitors. So you admit to being traitors by using True(falsely)in front of Traitors.
    Liberal= Cowardly Lions/Liars and you know this.
    As an ex-Democrat I saw what racist haters they were and left the party. Democrat= Racist. I long for the Reagan years.

    Your lies and spin aren't working, Neocon Scum!

    "A new Gallup poll, conducted September 21-24 and released on September 27, found that a majority of respondents -- 53 percent -- blamed President Bush for "the fact that Osama bin Laden was not captured," while only 36 percent blamed former President Bill Clinton."

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200609270005

    Pony up for some decent service you cheap greedy cons!
    *******************************************
    If you don't like it here your more than welcome to leave and go to Daily Kos and Dem. Underground,where you can all get off together watching KO.

    Oooooh! Oooooh! AWOL!
    A newer poll says the 100% of the terrorists blame Bush for foiling all of thier attacks since 9/11.
    (as there hasn't been an attack here since then, as opposed to the several attacks under Clinton)

    Am I the only one that thinks KO looks like Eugene Levy?

    Kurtz kind of threw KO off his game, huh? Not the answers he expected...

    "Neocons" ... what is that?
    ****************************
    Its codeword some on the left use for Jews they think control the US.

    Am I the only one that thinks KO looks like Eugene Levy?

    Kurtz kind of threw KO off his game, huh? Not the answers he expected...

    Newer poll-

    100% of the terrorists blame Bush for foiling attacks since 9/11 against American interests here at home and abroad.

    (as opposed to being repeatedly attacked under Clinton).

    Hey Steve!

    Are you really so stupid that you don't know what Neocons are, or have you been living in a cave with your hero Osama for the last decade?

    Neocons = Traitors / Like you!

    The Neoconservative Persuasion
    From the August 25, 2003 issue:
    What it was, and what it is.
    by Irving Kristol

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/000tzmlw.asp

    Hey Steve!

    Are you really so stupid that you don't know what Neocons are, or have you been living in a cave with your hero Osama for the last decade?

    Neocons = Traitors / Like you!

    The Neoconservative Persuasion
    From the August 25, 2003 issue:
    What it was, and what it is.
    by Irving Kristol

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/000tzmlw.asp

    No, ASSOL, I was just wondering why the looney left keeps using it interchangeably with evil.

    Bush = Hitler... we get it.

    You and Krazy Ketih keep up the good work. You guys are the new Michael Moore and will help usher the Republicans to a LANDSLIDE victory in November.

    Kerslap.....


    There is way too much proof offered by Keith tonight, that Bush, Rice, and all of the right winged propaganda machine has been lying to the american people for way to long. (right winged propaganda machine includes all of the cable news agencies msnbc, cnn, cnbc, and especially fox news.)

    But I have ONE issue I want to concentrate on. After one observation.

    Keith just bitch-slapped that little punky posing as the president.

    Clinton was offered Osama by the government of Sudan ? That is what all of the good little right wingers have claimed. Prove it.

    A reporter for an arab newspaper, tells the Bush mouth piece in early 2001, that Saudi Arabia has offered to turn over Osama Bin Laden. Prove it ? We all just saw the videotape of the exchange.

    Now let us see how the little republicans and their spin machine, can try to tell ALL OF US.. not to believe our lying eyes, and ears. Because I KNOW what I just saw and heard, and will be recording the video at 11:00, so that I can make sure it shows up on YOUTUBE.


    Its kinda like how LIBERALS never call themselves LIBERALS...

    Kerslap.....


    There is way too much proof offered by Keith tonight, that Bush, Rice, and all of the right winged propaganda machine has been lying to the american people for way to long. (right winged propaganda machine includes all of the cable news agencies msnbc, cnn, cnbc, and especially fox news.)

    But I have ONE issue I want to concentrate on. After one observation.

    Keith just bitch-slapped that little punky posing as the president.

    Clinton was offered Osama by the government of Sudan ? That is what all of the good little right wingers have claimed. Prove it.

    A reporter for an arab newspaper, tells the Bush mouth piece in early 2001, that Saudi Arabia has offered to turn over Osama Bin Laden. Prove it ? We all just saw the videotape of the exchange.

    Now let us see how the little republicans and their spin machine, can try to tell ALL OF US.. not to believe our lying eyes, and ears. Because I KNOW what I just saw and heard, and will be recording the video at 11:00, so that I can make sure it shows up on YOUTUBE.


    Speaking of Osama heres an article outlining plans of appeasement and European concern that conservatives will win upcoming elections:

    It looks as if immigrants youths want to turn nightly rioting during the Islamic holy month of ramadan into an annual tradition. Around 8:30pm last night violence erupted again in Brussels, the capital of Europe. The riots centered on the Brussels Marollen quarter and the area near the Midi Train Station, where the international trains from London and Paris arrive. Youths threw stones at passing people and cars, windows of parked cars were smashed, bus shelters were demolished, cars were set ablaze, a youth club was arsoned and a shop was looted. Two molotov cocktails were thrown into St.Peter’s hospital, one of the main hospitals of central Brussels. The fire brigade was able to extinguish the fires at the hospital, but youths managed to steal the keys of the fire engine.

    During the month of ramadan Muslims are required to fast during the day and are only allowed to eat after sunset. As Esther pointed out “What should be noticed about the riots is that they start after sunset. Besides the fact that they start after dark, it also gives the rioters enough time to break their fast and enjoy the traditional family meal. Sunset is around 7:30pm.” Tuesday’s and Monday’s riots began around 8:30pm.

    Last night the police arrested 45 rioters. One of them will be prosecuted for assaulting the owner of a shop. Philippe Close, the chef de cabinet of the Mayor of Brussels, Freddy Thielemans, said that the authorities would continue their efforts to defuse the situation in a peaceful manner, but he announced that the police will be less complacent in future, “since we cannot tolerate that this [Marollen] neighbourhood falls victim to a problem from outside the neighbourhood.”

    The immigrant youths claim that they are upset by the death of Fayçal Chaaban, a 25-year old criminal, in a Brussels prison last Sunday. Yesterday morning the authorities announced they would hold a meeting with the youths to hear their grievances about security in prison, but the meeting, which was due last night, could not take place because of the riots.

    The authorities are especially nervous since the Belgian municipal elections are being held on Sunday October 8th. It is likely that the elections will be won by anti-immigrant, “islamophobic” parties. Since ramadan will not be over on October 8th and many immigrants might perceive a victory of the indigenous right (as opposed to their own far-right) as an insult, Muslim indignation over the election results in major cities may spark serious disturbances. According to a poll published today the Vlaams Belang party is set to win 38.6% of the vote in Antwerp (compared to 33,0% in the previous municipal elections six years ago).

    More on this topic (with links to the 2005 Ramadan Riots):

    Ramadan Rioting in Brussels, 26 September 2006

    News the MSM will not tell you.

    Whcih one of you here, is the terrorist S0B that sent that package to keith?

    We know it was one of you, or someone just like you, a right winged terrorist. Just like Osama.

    OMG. Why can't I believe one word that you're spewing about the "incident." The only reason you don't wanted printed is because it is about you. And the only reason you are bitching about the NYP is because it is owned by Murdoch. Reporters pick up cop reports all the time. They have sources who tip them off. They are not beholden to you, Olbywan.

    Hey Steve (Neocon Scum)

    100% of Al Qaeda Madrid Train Bombers endorsed their hero, Radical Mullah George Bush Laden in 04.

    'We are very keen that you do not lose in the forthcoming elections as we know very well that any big attack can bring down your government and this is what we do not want.

    "We cannot get anyone who is more foolish than you, who deals with matters with force instead of wisdom and diplomacy.

    "Your stupidity and religious extremism is what we want as our people will not awaken from their deep sleep except when there is an enemy."

    Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigade of al Qaeda

    Which one of you here, is the terrorist S0B that sent that package to keith?

    We know it was one of you, or someone just like you, a right winged terrorist. Just like Osama.

    Error Message ?"In an effort to curb malicious comment posting by abusive users, I've enabled a feature that requires a weblog commenter to wait a short amount of time before being able to post again. Please try to post your comment again in a short while. Thanks for your patience."


    More like an admission that someone is filtering the post here. I wonder just how many post are just rejected outright. Just typical right winged supression of the truth.

    "In an effort to curb malicious comment posting by abusive users"

    Yeah, like those that would speak the truth about this lying republican run government.

    You heard it on his show tonight - Olby does not support a free press in this country.

    A-HOLBUSH,

    I said AMERICAN interests... but why would I think that an Olbyloon would be pro-American? You and Clinton can go sell some nuclear secrets to the Chineese and you and Al Gore can go take some more money from those Buddist Monks...

    "NeoScum" That's the stuff I wanna see- keep it up and we'll ride it all the to victory...

    You go GIRL!

    Hey Cox (nutball moonbat owner of this site, who has a peverse hard-on for Keith)

    Did you send Keith the fake anthrax?

    Fess up!

    Say stevie boy,

    I noticed that you dont bother to address the issues, you just run your mouth.

    Taking example from your fearess leader.

    When the truth absolutely positively does not matter, become a republican.

    Yeah, Keith, the "incident" is so deadly serious that you just used it to pimp books.

    "In an effort to curb malicious comment posting by abusive users"

    Yeah, like those that would speak the truth about this lying republican run government.
    *****************************************
    Yea your not being allowed to how your views posted. :)

    Thats the diffence between Olbermann Watch and the real Olbermann...a debate with all sides heard from.

    "In an effort to curb malicious comment posting by abusive users"

    Yeah, like those that would speak the truth about this lying republican run government.
    *****************************************
    Yea your not being allowed to have your views posted. :)

    Thats the diffence between Olbermann Watch and the real Olbermann...a debate with all sides heard from.

    "address the issues?"

    You got a question/issue KW? Go ahead.
    But, don't forget- when it cums to truth, it was your boy who was convicted of perjury and disbared.

    (But, I know- I know, lying about sex is okay... especially when its in a Federal Civil Rights violation case involving an underling)

    A new Gallup poll, conducted September 21-24 and released on September 27, found that a majority of respondents -- 53 percent -- blamed President Bush for "the fact that Osama bin Laden was not captured," while only 36 percent blamed former President Bill Clinton.

    But, don't forget- when it cums to truth, it was your boy who was convicted of perjury and disbared.

    (But, I know- I know, lying about sex is okay... especially when its in a Federal Civil Rights violation case involving an underling)


    Not my boy, as I am a reformed republican, pissed like hell that my party has been hijacked by you neo-cons.

    You arent conservatives, or christians, or for that matter, military people. Just a bunch of whining crying lying S0Bs that dont give a damn about this country, our constitution.

    Because if you did, you would not be trying to divert attention away from the lies of your bOY, that have killed almost 3000 US soldiers based on his previous lies.

    And as it turns out, could have saved the 3000 at the world trade center on 9-11 if he had been doing his job.

    What I regret more than anything, is having to admit, that Clinton was a more honest man and a better american than Bush is.

    but that is the difference, I can be honest, how about you.

    Joe is losing it. What's that about?

    That's good AHOL BUSH... keep repeating yourself.
    Maybe next time you post the same tripe, you can use CAPS... you know, SHOUT IT OUT!

    (Psssssst... by the way: Bush isn't running for re-election)

    Say stevie boy,

    I noticed that you dont bother to address the issues, you just run your mouth.

    Taking example from your fearess leader.

    When the truth absolutely positively does not matter, become a republican.

    someone said

    On an aside Rush Limbaugh may offer t-shirts for people born to Democrat parent/parents after Roe vs. Wade saying: I survived a Democrat pregnancy.
    Isn't that hillarious? Yes it is. And true.

    How about a t-shirt saying I survived republican parents who didn't want me but had me anyway cause they had to but they beat the shit out of me and hated me and wished I was never born. You don't think there are a few of those people out there. My parents were democrats who had a kid when they wanted and felt it right to have one.

    the obyturd anthrax sniffing team is out tonight. They must be upset that the poor big orange dumbell got "attacked" . Olbynuttjob probably sent the letter to himself to make another ranti -Fox rant and garner pity from his slobbering adoring left wingnut fans (all 16 of them).
    Hey olbernuttjob nobody has to waste the money for a postage stamp to take you out. You are doing a great job of self destructing with your stupidity and need no help from us "right wing conspiracists".
    Yeah sure an attack on you is an attack on all journmalists wxcept for one small fact YOU ARE NOT A REAL JOURNALIST.
    AWOLBUSH maybe your name describes your own girlfriends anatomical abnormalities but you need to re-check your leftard-progressive dictionary and coloring book. You left wingnut socialist morons are the "moonbats". I believe that one of your heroes the notable hunger striker and Chavez lap dancer Cindy Sheehan was the mother of all moonbats and originator of the species.
    the latin name is chichenshitus lunarbat- Americanus. Found primarily at code PINKO protests at outside military hospitals and ususualy having shitty clothing, foul smells and unkempt hair and holding banners in some foreign languange. they tend to watch and support nutjobs like olbermann and can be frequently found maturbating furiously to his TV show and posting lunatic rants on websites like olbermannwatch.com.
    commence strokin' asshat

    I survived republican parents who didn't want me but had me anyway cause they had to but they beat the shit out of me and hated me and wished I was never born.


    Except for republican DADs, after all, 72% of all republicans have not had sex without hearing "daddy please dont", since their sons and daughters were 5 years old.

    That also explains the Ann Coulters and others of her ilk.

    Every time Bubba Clinton passes gas, Opie gets a face lift.

    Hey Riverdog... how come you are not in the military.. and if you were.. how come you were not killed ?

    just came by to see which neo-cons head would explode first.

    That video clip of the Saudis offering to turn over Osama for his part in the Cole bombing is PROOF that the Bushies were not doing their job. If they had been, we could have saved 3000 on 9-11, and another 3000 in Iraq.

    and by this time tommorow, that clip will be all over the place, and thats the fact jack.

    Bill O'lielly.....

    to answer your question to riverdog

    "Hey Riverdog... how come you are not in the military.. and if you were.. how come you were not killed ?"


    even though he talks a good game, as far as trash talking piss ignorant republican speak, he is also a good republican in that he wants someone to fight the war, but WILL not fight for himself.


    There are homos, and women, proving themselves to be better americans than the likes of riverdog and his republican buddies. After all, again, they are following the lead of their fearless leaders.

    I WAS in the military you remedial leftard. I did my time O'lie- haven't you ever heard the old adage "kill or be killed"?? of course you would'nt have heard something like that living in your mommies basement tho. In the early 1970's I was doing my part . WTF have you done for your country other that jack off and dream of rosie o'donnell?

    That's it. Let's truly speak " TRUTH TO POWER'craving" fools. The following is fact.
    Bill Clinton was absolutely derelict of duty during his disturbing dalliance with the very young subordinate. Al Qaeda planned the events of 9/11 for years with impunity. Clinton, meanwhile, was engaged in 'analingus' with the awfully young intern ( see the Starr Report for definition and details). He left office disgraced and feeling abused, but the truth is the abused were we, the American people. We were on the precipice of the greatest attack upon our homeland. Thirty Two weeks into the Bush Administration, Clintons chickens came home to roost on the ashpile of the WTC, the Pentagon, and in a Pennsylvania field. Americans know this to be true.

    The point was not whether Michael Schuer said Bush had a chance, and there is more to it than that. It was that terrorism from Al Qaeda was not a pressing issue for that admininstration although they had been warned.

    If you remember, Condi was to give a speech on threats to US on Sept. 11. The Wash Post got a copy of it, and guess who did not factor into it. You got it, Al Qaeda and jihadi terror. It was about rouge states. They were clueless, and still are. So are their supporters.

    I love how olberman thought he figured out a way to inject his "anthrax scare" by blaming the release of the incident on Rupert Murdoch. As far as the rest of what I saw, The lack of facts and the twisting of the few included could only be rivaled by that of a High school students mid term film class presentation spliced up in between bong hits.

    KO probably made up the antrax scare like he dreams up the "news". But if true it is probably a leftist extremist like those attacking Joe "Liberal Cocksucker" Liebermann because he agreed with Bush on ONE thing. Or those turning on Chris "I give to Dems and my daddy's a moonbat" Wallace. Your side are the extremist loonys.

    nice of you to display your ignorance moronymous. yup them faggots are doing good although I hear that the company co's had to instruct the fag-brigade that blowing up the enemy did not involve dropping their pants.
    you talk a good game and are as usual a real brave liberal leftard when seperated by a computer. What gay bar have you "recruited" in today. You are the ones that cry like a little girl and piss your pants when the shelling starts. THAT I have seen from mouthy little faggots like you. I'd like to see you spend one night JUST ONE NIGHT in the jungle like I did and you would be crying for your momma you little turd.
    And for your information you little pisswipe I tried to re-up after 9-11 but even with my skills and experience of survival training troops, because of my age they would not let me re-enlist. I have an Honorable Discharge hanging on my wall - whats hanging on yours a--hole?

    I think that Clinton was right in his assessment. He tried, but didn't succeed. He ordered attacks, but you moron Republicans were too concerned where his dick was (you guys are still obsessed with his penis...hmmm...). Bush came in, and, given his ignorance and lack of interest in world affairs, really didn't get what was in front of them. Neither did Condi.

    History will not judge your boy well.

    I think that Clinton was right in his assessment. He tried, but didn't succeed. He ordered attacks, but you moron Republicans were too concerned where his dick was (you guys are still obsessed with his penis...hmmm...). Bush came in, and, given his ignorance and lack of interest in world affairs, really didn't get what was in front of them. Neither did Condi.

    History will not judge your boy well.

    "How about a t-shirt saying I survived republican parents who didn't want me but had me anyway cause they had to but they beat the shit out of me and hated me and wished I was never born. You don't think there are a few of those people out there. My parents were democrats who had a kid when they wanted and felt it right to have one.

    Posted by: codas at September 27, 2006 09:08 PM"

    And then he turned into you. OOOOPPS. Seriously i can back up the abortion facts and demographics. You can only slur hard working, honest, christians. With no support of the facts. But check the East St. Louis child murder story that broke recently about how Dems treat the ones they dont abort. Dems going the way of the DoDo thank god.

    My Guess the reason KO's really mad at the Post is he was saving the story about the "alleged" prank for his show,for a "special comment" and they spoiled it for him.

    ObserverDan


    What a belacous barage of BS.

    We all saw the video tonight, of the Saudis offering to turn over osama bin laden. To the Bush administration.

    As far as what Americans know. They know that they trust Clinton more than they trust Bush, they know that their job approval ratings for Clinton was higher when he left office, (even after they had on Clinton) than they approve of Bushs job right now.

    For all of his immoralities and faults, americans like Clinton more than they like Bush. and that is a fact.

    One final thought on this. Right before 9-11, Bushs approval ratings looked like they do now. Right after 9-11, they went through the roof and his approval rating was sky high. Now, the american people have realized that supporting this president, even after a terrorist attack, is a mistake.

    So with Clinton, being as bad as he was, is still a better man, and american, than this clown we call president.

    mlong, I would agree with you, but somehow I doubt he will be doing another Special Comment for a while. I'm surprised they let him go back to Secaucus.

    Actually, to cut to the chase with Keith, you guys are upset now that there is someone on tv is smart, well informed, articulate and isn't afraid to speak his mind (thank God). Many of you, I am sure, have some of those qualities, but "well informed" would not be among them. Since he hasn't drank the Kool Aide that most of you shut ins quaff on a daily basis, and since you would rahter retreat into the warmth of God, mother an apple pie than deal with the world as it is, you feel you no choice but to attack the messenger when he has the audacity to hold up a mirror to your ugly, pock marked, propoganized faces.

    Actually, to cut to the chase with Keith, you guys are upset now that there is someone on tv is smart, well informed, articulate and isn't afraid to speak his mind (thank God). Many of you, I am sure, have some of those qualities, but "well informed" would not be among them. Since he hasn't drank the Kool Aide that most of you shut-ins quaff on a daily basis, and since you would rather retreat into the warmth of God, mother an apple pie than deal with the world as it is, you feel you no choice but to attack the messenger when he displays the audacity of attempting to make you rethink your ill informed and ill formed positions. The truth hurts, but it will set you free.

    I doubt he will be doing another Special Comment for a while.
    ******************************************
    Well I'm waiting for one more..the one where he'll come right out and say that 9/11 was an inside job..frankly it's the only thing left he hasn't tried.

    Actually, to cut to the chase with Keith, you guys are upset now that there is someone on tv is smart, well informed, articulate and isn't afraid to speak his mind (thank God). Many of you, I am sure, have some of those qualities, but "well informed" would not be among them. Since he hasn't drank the Kool Aide that most of you shut-ins quaff on a daily basis, and since you would rather retreat into the warmth of God, mother an apple pie than deal with the world as it is, you feel you no choice but to attack the messenger when he displays the audacity of attempting to make you rethink your ill informed and ill formed positions. The truth hurts, but it will set you free.

    Riverdog thanks for your service. It wasnt for nothing. You should be proud as a peacock as i'm sure you are. The leftist flame throwers dont know shit from shinola. When there mouths open and confirm this. EXAMPLE:

    "I think that Clinton was right in his assessment. He tried, but didn't succeed. He ordered attacks, but you moron Republicans were too concerned where his dick was (you guys are still obsessed with his penis...hmmm...). Bush came in, and, given his ignorance and lack of interest in world affairs, really didn't get what was in front of them. Neither did Condi.

    History will not judge your boy well.

    Posted by: Spronjulator at September 27, 2006 09:42 PM"

    History will be much kinder than it will be to kennedy for going into Vietnam. Johnson for escalating Vietnam. Carter for the worst economy EVER. Carter for the Iran crisis. And Clinton for the corruption, renting Lincoln bedroom, abusing a subordinate(Monica),selling the Chinese technology, Buddist Monk bribes,giving Nuclear material to North Korea, ignoring the attacks 1st World Trade Center, African Embassies, Somalia and Black Hawk down cowardice, Rwanda genocide,Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Yeah your boys places in History are assured.

    streampup said" I tried to re-up after 9-11 but even with my skills and experience of survival training troops, because of my age they would not let me re-enlist. I have an Honorable Discharge hanging on my wall"


    and he also said that he was in the jungle, enduring shelling. He is really being obtuse.

    for one thing, there is no jungle in iraq, kuwait or anywhere near there.

    now he mentions the early 70's, but I know he is not talking about vietnam, because the NVA, nor the vietcong, (do you know the difference streampup) were using heavy artillary in vietnam.

    so do you want to change your story streampup, before you open your mouth and get caught for the lying POS that you are.

    Actually, to cut to the chase with Keith,
    *******************************************
    Once again as others here and I have asked before to you KO lovers..why is your great hero afraid to have anyone on his show that might disagree with him..is it because he's afraid someone might "speak truth to KO" and he wouldn't be able to handle it?

    Ken Star spent $70 Million of our tax dollars chasing Clinton's penis around in hopes of getting a handle on it. All the Clinton haters were so pleased with themselves that they were on the hunt for it. It is this fact that caused them all to hate Hilary so much, pure jealousy that she was so close to it on a daily basis. If only they could just see it perhaps, they thought, they to might be able to get it up also.

    It is said that the US government had to petition the drug companies to invent Viagra as a solution to the drop in birth rates in white protestant families across the south. Turns out that the fat white protestant men were so threatened by a strong woman that they lost their libido every time they heard Hannity or Limbaugh say her name.

    Oh how they love to have someone to hate. Hate is the cultural bond of the descendants of the Klan. When those up start educated liberals forced the south to end segregation they were lost for a while there, then came the Clintons. Not a dam thing wrong with them. Not much different than most politicians as far lawyer types go, but the Rove people new their own kind and new what it took to unite all the hillbillies - hate. What motivates them more than anything is a belief that there is someone out there besides themselves (descendants of the klan) that can be seen as repulsive as them.

    $70 million later and all Ken Star could come with is he lied about a blow job. That's it. All the impeachment hearing all the hundreds of hours of Rush and Hannity and that is all they could come with. Now with Bush, the stupidest president in US history they are horrified with embarrassment. Nothing left to do but play a game of denial.

    November is just a few weeks away. Then we all can come back for Crow dinner served republican style

    anonymous said

    "Riverdog thanks for your service."

    sucky sucky

    how do you even know he served, unless you are talking about his, on his knees slurp job to his republican buddies. You know, like the one you are giving him right now.


    All of you so called republicans are really pathetic.

    You dont know that streampup ever served anyone, except on his knees with his severe case of ballonchins syndrome.

    but I am pretty sure I have him figured out. his military service was probably as illustrious as bushs or cheneys.

    Anon it is liberals and other leftards that are obssessed with Klinton't dick. Conservatives were obssessed with his LYING and violationb of the Constitution and giving missle technology to the Chinese etc, etc. All the liberal Klinton apologists say how "smart" Klinton was but he was not smart enough to not get caught getting a hummer in the oval office from a subordinate was he?
    you pointed out Jimmy Carter and i need to expound on that a bit. I was around when Carter was in office and as far as I am concerned he was the worst president ever. It was under his administration that the gas prices started to rise and also when islamic terrorism started. For 444 days Carted disgraced America and made us the laughinstock of the world. Klinton was the same in Somalia and the Balkans. Democrats have not eh spine for a fight asgainst our enemies and that should be taken into acoount seriously in the next elections.

    Riverdog caught in a lie - knows nothing about military and switches to the crap Rush Limbaugh and Hannity put out there. But the biggest laugh is that true conservatives are up in arms over the stomping of the constitution by Bush. To list this as something to justify the Ken Star crap on is blowing hot air recycled from the many fat slob jocks like Limbaugh. Typical hillbilly rhetoric!

    Dear riverdog - re post @ 9:39

    That was a great comment. Thanks from me & mine for the service and scrifice from you to us all.

    I cant really say anything about what KO said. MSNBC has been banned from my house as long as KO is on the air and called a "jouralist". Until someone posts some qoutes I dont have a basis to comment.

    By the way, I left a post for you on the Scarce KO site.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Keith does have a point about the Post making light of the soap powder, especially as pointed out by even some conservative websites (here or here or here if you're interested). And Hewitt's condemnation of the Post comes after he organized a campaign to buy seeds for Keith following his Monday night "special comment" on Chris Wallace, which Hewitt replayed cuts from on his Tuesday radio show as Jefferson Airplane's "Go Ask Alice" played in the background.

    So Keith's "enemies" aren't as easy to demonize as pure evil as he may think they are (and Dr. Olbermann did suffer a bit himself from taking a serious situation lightly on Wednesday, getting himself chided by some e-mailers to the Dan Patrick Show today following his appearance for taking a too cavalier attitude towards the Terrell Owens incident and speculating that TO would have been "a puddle" if he really had taken as many painkillers as claimed in the inital Dallas PD report).

    you ever heard of VC mortars a--hole? and the gooks did have heavy artillery courtesy of China and Russia. the only bullets whistling over your head were the kind Bill shot over Monica.
    Look up the little phrase "DI OPRESSO LIBER" and SERE assmouth and tell me that you believe a face to face meeting is the only way I can convince you of how very, very stupid you truly are.
    You are like olbermann ,brave til the shit hits the fan then it's all tears and pissed pants.

    Johnny,
    Keith mentioned he was quoting Clinton and Berger when he did so. He also quoted from the 9/11 Commission Report. He showed clips of quotes from real people. None of it was made up. I notice you couldn't knock any of the quotes or facts brought up. I guess Rush hasn't told you what to say yet. It's a nice touch pretending to bored by discussing terrorism and 9/11. "I don't need to bore myself with facts, Rush always tells me what to think." If you want to have any credibility, you should be careful not to attack and praise the same person in the same paragraph. Is Kurtz some left-wing hack who shouldn't be paid attention to (when he speaks ill of Bush) or is he an expert who knows everything and should be completely trusted (when he supports Bush)? But you're probably one of the little kids in "Jesus Camp" praying to a cardboard cutout of Bush.
    The liberals on this site have been asking since Sunday for you people to list the things Bush did to get bin Laden and al Qaeda. We're still waiting.

    Do you work for the NYPD or the FBI? Do you know how they handled the situation with Keith? Do you know what time the test results were known? Do you know whether they told people to keep the incident quiet? Do you know anything other than what's in the NY Post's biased article? By the way Keith was correct about Rupert Murdoch owning the NY Post. I'm not sure what your problem is with that.

    Riverdog.. are you attempting to do an imitation of Sam Kinison in " Back to School " you clearly are just as batshit...

    I've noticed there is no one from the left or the right here that is well read on facts. Looks to me like this sight is largely ignored except by people that like to insult. Because the theme is nothing more than to combat the one and only left winged commentator on a news channel it is reasonable that people like myself come here and meet "yall" on your terms. Insults.

    Keith Olberman is the last commentator on television that tells it like it is. If he is taken off (and I feel certain corporate America is working on it) then we are left with 100% propaganda crap. All of American news will no better than China and North Korea. And we will have the same people to blame for this that brought us pigs like Jerry Farwell and Jimmy Swaggert just name a few.

    The idea that a--holes like the person who made this sight believe journalists aren't supposed to question government demonstrates the level of ignorance the creator of the sight must have. It does serve a good purpose for people like me though. A quick and easy way to share with you my views on how simple your ignorance is. Guns, trucks, and paranoia that others think your gay is the gross make up of you heritage - that and a culture corrupted by hundreds of years of racism.

    Sorry - Colbert seems to be more well read than some of the others like myself. No insults from him just information and a challenge to meet it with some facts.

    Anyone?

    Billy There are plenty places to engage in astute conversation, however one can tell right away that the dialogue in this room is that of the average 14 year old. The right recognizes that the only thing they have going for them is bravado and are doing their best to act like they are in a superior position and anyone who questions their status is insulted. This is what happens when stubborn people who are not aware of their inadquacies are become President. Their days are coming to a rapid end and they are angry about it, sort of like the dinosaurs if any of the religous whackos actually think dinosaurs existed.

    Keith Olberman is the last commentator on television that tells it like it is.
    **********************************************
    Will you answer my question?..Why is KO afraid to have open debate on his show?

    You tell us how great this guy is but you and other KO lovers don't seem to be able to explain that.

    Liberals=Stalinists
    Progressives=Maoists
    Leftists=Nazis?

    Any questions?

    Reichwing and proud!

    The Bible explains dinosaurs. The earth 40,000 years old. Glaciers didn't gouge out the great lakes over several ice ages - a great flood did.

    They can't because they know we're right. Just like they know we're right when his lies, distortions and mistruths are documented and corrected here.

    Steve,
    "'Neocons' ... what is that?
    Seriously.
    A 'new' (neo) conservative (con)?

    What does that mean?

    Are there NeoLibs? Is that bad too?"

    I'm not sure if that is some new Republican talking point. I recently read an editorial by Linda Chavez seeming to deny the existence of neoconservatives. I'm not sure if you're joking. I'm not sure if you're not very bright. Whatever the case, neocons are followers of neoconservatism which does exist. Neoliberalism also exists.
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/000tzmlw.asp
    That link is an article by Irving Kristol, sometimes called the "Godfather of neoconservatism," explaining it all.

    There is no global warming and mass extinctions of forests and the animals that live in them is exactly what God the father wants to see from his children. As a matter of fact as long as Rush and Fox News says it's good then it must be.

    hey riverpup,


    I knew that you would expose yourself as a liar.

    "when the shelling starts" shelling is not mortar attacks. Shelling is from heavy artillary. Now while there are heavy guns that are called mortar, because of their trajectory, and the way that their shells fall into their target, that is not the same thing as being under a mortar attack , from a portable tube launched mortar.

    Now either you were lying before, or you are lying now.

    And dont tell me about special forces mottos. Hell, I can say semper fi, but that doesnt make me a jarhead. And just because you know the motto of the US special forces, so does Samantha Carter on Stargate SG1. I heard her say it before, does that make her a green beret?

    And yeah, I have some experience in the military. I was BORN in an army hospital, the doctor that slapped me on my ass was an army officer. Then I spent 15 years bouncing all over the world with my father that was in the artillary with mechanized armor units. Then I enlisted 7 days after my 17th birthday, and served until I got my Honorable Discharge and my DD214. As a matter of fact, I got both on the same day, didnt have to wait between getting one another. Do you know what that means ? No ? I didnt think so.

    And my original statement holds. Gays and women, are proving themselves to be better americans, than all of you that support this war, and president, and are unwilling to serve yourselves. I ponit that out, because the gays, and the women, are more manly than people like you.

    and that is the truth. deal with it.

    Nice Red Wolf - Proud?. But you are holding back. Why don't you go one step farther and back up that "pride" and admit it is Christian Identy White Pride. Tell us about your mastery of some more German words. Tell us about the 2 or three books you've read since dropping out of highschool.

    Steve,
    How many attacks did al Qaeda commit in the United States whil Clinton was in office? There was the first WTC attack one month after he took over. What else? There have been lots of Americans killed overseas in terrorist attacks since 9/11. All Bush can truthfully claim is there hasn't been another attack in the U.S. Clinton can make that same claim after his one attack, which happened only one month after he took office. Which makes it curious why no one has ever thought of blaming Bush 41 for that attack if Clinton's to blame for 9/11. Unlike Bush, Clinton can name specific attacks prevented on his watch. Bush claimed he stopped one attack but didn't even know the name of the building he supposedly saved.

    "The idea that a--holes like the person who made this sight believe journalists aren't supposed to question government demonstrates the level of ignorance the creator of the sight must have. It does serve a good purpose for people like me though. A quick and easy way to share with you my views on how simple your ignorance is. Guns, trucks, and paranoia that others think your gay is the gross make up of you heritage - that and a culture corrupted by hundreds of years of racism."
    journalist can question government but who questions the "journalists"? Who keep them in check as far as ipartiality and truth goes? My bigest bitch is that Olby's show is a one hour documentary about HIM and his views. he takes no dissent and only has guests on the reflect and sdupport his views. Thats not a journalist but a partisan hack. Anybody that suggests that that reporter asking a real question is "sanbagging" and a "monkey" exposes his own failings and ignorance.
    Sorry, dipstick I drive a 50 MPG diesel VW, ya got me on the guns tho. and as a typical left wingnut whan ya got nothin' you can always cry racism. It's the same kind of ignorance that actually believes olbernuttjob is journalist

    Let us not forget that Clinton saved hundreds of thousands in the Bosnia conflict and the Repubs criticized the hell out of him while he did so. The Repubs made it clear that they didn't want Clinton to be effective while in office - effect fighting terrorists of any kind. The Neocons had a long term plane to take Iraq and that is why they allowed 911 to happen. They knew their were Saudi's learn how to fly but not land planes in our pilot training schools and they did nothing about it. They hoped it would be a simple hijacking and a few hundred Americans dead but the 19 Saudi's had more in plans than expected.

    They new these guys were here planning something and they let it happen to get control of the middle east oil.

    Liberals=Stalinists
    Progressives=Maoists
    Leftists=Nazis?

    Any questions?

    Reichwing and proud!

    Spronjulator says:
    "Actually, to cut to the chase with Keith, you guys are upset . . . when he displays the audacity of attempting to make you rethink your ill informed and ill formed positions. The truth hurts, but it will set you free."

    The issue that concerns the clear thinkers regarding the so-called attempts to make us "rethink ill informed and ill formed positions", is that Orange Boy is an agenda driven liar. "Stolen" elections in Ohio?- Lie; Impending indictments for Karl Rove- Lie; Claims that he is "not political" and is the "anchor" of a "news" show- Lie

    If you believe that the positions of Orange Boy are "well informed and well formed" then he should welcome scrutiny from someone who might wish to challenge the "truth" that he disseminates on a nightly basis. So why does he not permit someone who might dare to disagee with him on Meltdown? Olby says debate makes him "queasy". Yeah, Keith I'd feel "queasy" too if I thought my dramatic anti-Bush intonations were about to be demolished like a house of cards by a rational clear thinking guest in front of your paltry audience.

    Mr Metzgerble,
    I'm Spanish you Jihadi loving Stalinist commie.
    Since you call us Reichwings well I throw it back in your Commie faces. That proves how far left you guys are if you think the Center Right is Reichwuing. I'll wear it as a badge of honor. Just like the Left is proud of it's Stalinist origins!

    Keith's a failure when given a job
    Like interns on Bill he did bob
    He paid Slick Willy
    That's just plain silly
    Cuz for free you can suck on Bill's knob

    You know something, Al-Qaeda ain't even that bad. They're freedom fighter. Them and Hizballah are fighting to overthrow the Capitalists.
    I say the Dems should nominatein 2008:

    Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for President and Hugo Cavez for VP!

    Riverdog,
    Calm down fool - journalist are supposed to question journalists but that does not happen any more - check the daily show to learn more about that. Only a stupid hillbilly would talk like you. Olbermann has not been shown by you or Hannity or Limbaugh or even Billy O'really to be extreme in his beliefs only extreme in his outrage that this nation's air waves are owned and controlled by multi-national corporations. Anyone can own guns and a VW but it takes intelligence to pay attention in your high school history class to know that we fought the commies for the right to a free press. Only a--holes like you want to see the last truly free voice be squashed. Limbaugh Hannity and all the other pin heads that do the bidding of corporate America are traitors to this nation. CNN is the worst of them all for pretending to be left of center. They are nothing of the kind. Wolf Blitzer is the biggest a--hole of them all. At least Fox makes it clear that 700 Club set them up but CNN pretends to be left. I fear the damage of CNN more than Fox.

    You have lot to learn. Put down you 4 wheeling magazines and start reading something other than O'really's book list.

    ObserverDan,
    Americans blame Bush more than Clinton (53%-36%) for the attacks. I was shocked like you. I mean how dare they blame the guy in charge when something goes wrong. Haven't they been listening to the Republican mantra of everyone but us should take personal responsibility? Lewinsky was 21. So she was old enough to vote, drink, join the military, smoke, own/shoot guns but not have oral sex?
    The 9/11 Commission Report said the Lewinsky affair didn't distract Clinton. Bush is far more at blame for 9/11 than Clinton. But Bush is proud of 9/11 happening on his watch, as is evidenced by his continuous bragging about it.

    River rat,
    Keith Olbermann is a Far Left Stalinists Islamic sympathizer. When people have differing opinions he attacks and savages them using Stalinists propaganda tactic. He calls people Un-American who don't agree with them.
    He has praised Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
    He's a trotlitarian type. Hence his lack of diverse opinions. he's a coward!

    River rat,
    Keith Olbermann is a Far Left Stalinists Islamic sympathizer. When people have differing opinions he attacks and savages them using Stalinists propaganda tactic. He calls people Un-American who don't agree with them.
    He has praised Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
    He's a trotlitarian type. Hence his lack of diverse opinions. he's a coward!

    Mr Metzgerble,
    I'm Spanish you Jihadi loving Stalinist commie.
    Since you call us Reichwings well I throw it back in your Commie faces. That proves how far left you guys are if you think the Center Right is Reichwuing. I'll wear it as a badge of honor. Just like the Left is proud of it's Stalinist origins!

    I don't call that "proud" denying your white. Which is it? Nothing worse than Christian Identity fraud. No way to lie about white "pride" and then lie about being "spanish". Who says "Spanish" you fool? The common term is Hispanic. Dumb idiot makes a bigger fool of himself the more he writes.

    The fact is Al-Qaeda\Hizballah\Iran are peace lovers. I really admire Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He's peace loving wise man. I really wished he led this country!

    Good grief. Even Democratic bomb thrower Bob Schrum said Chris Wallace was unbiased and it was a fair question. This was on "Hardball" last night... right before KO's nonsensical show. But for the third day in a row, he rips Wallace for "sandbagging" the BJ Clinton. Pathetic.

    Joey Stalin,
    Your the ignorant Rascist fool. The term Hispanic and spanish is interchangeable. I',m Spaniard/Dominican\Puerto-Rican/Sicilian. Your just some Stalinist Rascist.
    By the way we call ourselves Spanish and most people call us Spanish,obviously yuour an ignorant rat! Typical of all Leftists that call everyone racist but are the real racists!

    Joey Stalin,
    Your the ignorant Rascist fool. The term Hispanic and spanish is interchangeable. I',m Spaniard/Dominican/Puerto-Rican/Sicilian. Your just some Stalinist Rascist.
    By the way we call ourselves Spanish and most people call us Spanish,obviously yuour an ignorant rat! Typical of all Leftists that call everyone racist but are the real racists!

    Joey Stalin,
    Your the ignorant Rascist fool. The term Hispanic and spanish is interchangeable. I',m Spaniard/Dominican/Puerto-Rican/Sicilian. Your just some Stalinist Rascist.
    By the way we call ourselves Spanish and most people call us Spanish,obviously yuour an ignorant rat! Typical of all Leftists that call everyone racist but are the real racists!

    I love Hugo Chavez, he's my hero!

    Anon,
    Please show us the statistics on abortion which support your assertion that only Democrats have abortions. We're waiting.

    KO delivered a righteous smack-down if I ever saw one. Too bad CNN and CBS can't do half of KO's research. Five minutes in the 9-11 Report was probably all it took.

    Yeah, I love the way Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wanted to wipe Israel off the map.

    Yeah, I love the way Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wanted to wipe Israel off the map.

    "Keith Olbermann is a Far Left Stalinists Islamic sympathizer. When people have differing opinions he attacks and savages them using Stalinists propaganda tactic. He calls people Un-American who don't agree with them.
    He has praised Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
    He's a trotlitarian type. Hence his lack of diverse opinions. he's a coward!"

    He's got high school drop out hillbillies hating him. When the cultural decedents of the Klan hate you then you know you are good for America. They nearly destroyed this nation with a civil war that caused the death of nearly 600,000 Americans. They followed that with 100 years of segregation which that fought tooth and nail to hold onto and when they lost that battle to they regrouped under Reagan - switched from Dixiecrats and joined the Republican party under the advisement of Farwell and Jim and Tammy Baker. Then these same hillbillies put the fool draft dodging Bush in office along with the whole congress and now they have run this nation into the ground. Soaring debt, high cost of living, health care coverage at an all time low for modern times and the whole fucking world thinks were a joke cuz Bush represents the culture of the Duke's of Hazards.

    Come November this all ends but it won't be the end. Soon there will nothing but corporate propaganda on our air waves and we will have the culture of the klan to thank for supporting slime balls like Limbaugh, Hannity and O'really!

    I worked for 20 years with real conservatives that didn't go to church, loved their gun collections more than god and hated big government that lied about what it was up too. Today they all are busy looking at porn on the internet (corporate government provided free of charge). One day they will wake up and fight dick heads like you and join the progressives in restoring what my father fought for in WW2 and my grandfather fought for in WW1.

    The real cowards are the ones that suck up the shit major media feeds you, You want to be a man stop identifying with right and left and think about being an American. Their is not difference between Dems and Repubs they all are corrupt. Fact is we are forced to choose between the lesser of 2 evils and you know the ones supported by the children of the klan have to be the more evil of the two!

    Wow anon, that was great. So I guess you support the cChildren of Stalin. Hey I'm sure you can't wait until Chairwoman Hillary gains power and throw Libertarians and Conservatives in Gulags right? I guess stalinism is the wave of the future!

    Anon,
    You mentioned Vietname but left out Nixon. That's odd. Some might say Hoover's Great Depression was worse then Carter's economy. Like anyone who has any understanding of economics. Clinton didn't give North Korea nuclear technology. He left Somalia six months after Blackhawk Down. You right-wingers wanted to leave right away. I guess you learned from Reagan cutting and running from Lebanon. The rest of your crap is proven wrong by the 9/11 Commission Report and Richard Clarke's book. If you're concerned about genocides why don't you complain about Bush ignoring the ongoing genocide in Sudan?

    Hey Anon di you know Progressiveas were a front for Stalinist sympathizers in the 40's? So that proves you're a Stalinist. Hey where are the gulags going to be built?

    Hey Anon di you know Progressiveas were a front for Stalinist sympathizers in the 40's? So that proves you're a Stalinist. Hey where are the gulags going to be built?

    Colbert

    USS Cole and US embassies ARE American soil DUH That brings it up to 4 Attacks in 8 years.

    I wanted the Europeans to handle Bosnia. So? Do you have any facts to support these massive criticisms from the right and neocons? I can remember a few blowhards that were quickly reined in on a short by the Rpub leadership. Especially Newt.

    Score Clinton - 4

    Bush - 1

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Let's see O'Reilly was on 20/20 last Friday talking about being on a terrorist hit list. And Olby has a letter postmarked from California with soap powder in it.

    Call me a conspiracy nut but......Nah! I guess this comes from listening to the Tin-Foil one Lionel.

    Somebody sends a major cable news anchor, (In his mind.) A envelope with white powder in it. Even after the haz-matt crew tells him its soap powder, he still DEMANDS to go to the hospital. Funny I didn't hear this on news breaks all day? And the best he gets is Page Six?
    And the only reason was they wanted to stick it to him? Not in no way I'm defending Page Six. Well this is terror stuff so the F.B.I. will be looking into it. This will be interesting. But you know it's Olby.

    Was there any talk about this on Dan Patrick's show today. I never listen, so I wouldn't know.

    Fox News, Dead-Air, N.P.R.,U.S.A. Radio News, didn't say anything. Must have missed it. Did MSNBC say anything?

    Some of you from the New York area might remember a guy who was on Channel 9 in the eighties Morton Downey Jr. Remember how that guy wigged out in the airport?

    I saw the 3rd quarter numbers with all the cablenews shows together. Bill was number 1. And Olby was number 27! I'm shure that didn't sit well with the suits at NBC.

    O'Reilly on his radio show said he was going to fly out to California to do Jay Leno's show Friday night. I wonder if Chicken Little Keith will fly out to stalk Bill from the audience?

    Anybody seen those Karl Rove indictments? The guy from TRUTHOUT said they would be here any minute.

    Colbert,
    Why did Clinton ignored the Genocide against Christians in the Southern Sudan by Muslims. Why did he enable the Islamic genocide against Serbs in Kosovo.
    I guess the only Genocide Stalinsts like you care about is when it's commited agains Muslims right?

    Colbert,
    Why did Clinton ignored the Genocide against Christians in the Southern Sudan by Muslims. Why did he enable the Islamic genocide against Serbs in Kosovo.
    I guess the only Genocide Stalinsts like you care about is when it's commited agains Muslims right?

    Zow! The way El Naranja was spinning his"I-Cant give-all-the-details" involvement with law enforcement story, I half expected to hear about police accusations involving a reststop gloryhole mishap. And yet the truth is indeed stranger. Who on earth would want to kill or injure Herr Olbertrottel? He murders himself and the leftist cause on TV everynight with his consistent onslaught of misinformation.

    Did Stalin have a free media or government controlled media? The fact that you can't recognize that our media is totally controlled by big corporations shows you are 14 years old or a really stupid hillbilly. Did you know that the laws were recently changed to allow Murdoch to own as much media as he does? It was not legal to have monopoly on media in this nation until recently. Stalin would have been envious of the propaganda machine this nation runs. Rove is the fine tuner. His legacy will be put in the history books as the genius of propaganda and he owes it all to his education living in the southern states. How does a people live with themselves for hundreds of years with a bible in one hand and the chains of slaves in the other unless they live in total denial of what it means to be an honest person. How have TV evangelists made billions over the last 50 years? What culture allows the perfection of selling snake oil so fruitfully? It began to be perfected with 700 club and evolved to Fox and then CNN knew they had to emulate on a corporate level to keep up. MSNBC will soon squash the last voice and then a--holes like you can get back to watching NASCAR while your kids rot in front of video games as a baby sitter.

    On our next to catch a Predator, we will show you even NBC employess go online to solicit underage sex.
    We caught Keith Olbermann in our latest sting. He was release because he had diplomatic immunity for working at the Iranian Consulate at the UN. The story was covered up claiming he was threatened!

    Joey Stalin,
    Hey comrade, Our media is as free as Stalin's was right? The media in this country is slightly to the Right of Castro. During the Israel and Hizballh conflict, most major networks and newpapeers were rooting for Hizballah. I guess any one that kills 300 Marines is good in the Stalinist wing of American politics. go back and contnue your Gulag traing instructions from Chairwoman Hillary and comrade Dean!

    Joey Stalin,
    Hey comrade, Our media is as free as Stalin's was right? The media in this country is slightly to the Right of Castro. During the Israel and Hizballh conflict, most major networks and newpapeers were rooting for Hizballah. I guess any one that kills 300 Marines is good in the Stalinist wing of American politics. go back and contnue your Gulag traing instructions from Chairwoman Hillary and comrade Dean!

    Culture of the klan brought you bibles and slaves.

    Culture of the klan brought you tv evanglists and Tammy Baker.

    Culture of the Klan brought you Tom Delay and George Bush (fake Texan).

    Culture of the klan - educated or ignorant hillbillies?

    Fair and balanced - you decide!

    Culture of Stalin brought you Jimmy Carter!

    Culture of Stalin brought you Welfare!

    Culture of Stalin brought you America hating professors at Universities.

    Culture of Stalin brought yoyu the traitors of the NY Time.

    Whats the matter with you people? It's soooo clear to see that your "leader" GW totally dropped the ball pre 9/11 and then stepped in it again using it to justify the disaster that is the war in Iraq. Anyone who can't see that regardless of political affiliation needs to have his or her head examinded. PULL YOUR HEADS OUT!

    Culture of Stalin brought you The daily "antisemetic'Kos

    Culture of stal;in brought you George soros.

    Culture of Stalin brought you CNN aka Communist News Network!

    Hey Redwolf (real macho name - that way no one will think you might be gay - good choice) I have to go read my bible and then watch NASCAR then go wipe down my dirt bike after that I have to go make a payment on my four wheeler. Then I am going to go the gun lovers chat room and talk shit about Hilary - (that way no will think I am gay... wait talking shit about women...er ah shit they might think I'm gay - scratch that).

    Shred,
    I guess you work for iranian Intelligence!

    Hey Red Wolf/Anon,

    Your inability to negotiate the intricacies of this web page (dude, you keep double posting with two names) explains a lot about your moronic posts. Come back when you figger it out.

    dis-missed

    Just got done watching Olby's special comment about his white powder deal.

    It's nice to see that Olby finally said something about Steve Centanni. How long did it take him?

    And did Olby say something to the effect that. The New York Post knew this was comming? As to the effect they were in on it? CALLING THE MOTHERSHIP!!!!!!!

    Keith Olbermann is one of the few people in the media who has not just rolled over for the Bush administration. The reason your pissed at him is because he is telling the truth and you just cant take it. Your reduced to name calling and simple minded epitaphs because you can't argue with the points he is making.

    It cant be a fun time to be a neocon... slowly coming the realization that that everything you have swallowed from Fox News over the last 6 years is wrong. You can see them going through all 5 of the Kubler-Ross stages of grief if you watch long enough. Most of these guys are strong into denial right now... but many have progressed to angry. But hey, cheer up, Depression is the next step! Hopefully you all will progress to acceptence some day and join the rest of the human race...

    Poor Puppy,
    Ok that cool. You mean Koran right? then you're going to go into a Jihadi website and praise Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Hey did you replace your poster of Che with Zarqawi?

    Poor Puppy,
    Ok that cool. You mean Koran right? then you're going to go into a Jihadi website and praise Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Hey did you replace your poster of Che with Zarqawi?

    Shred,
    hey let me know how those 72 Virgins were!

    winterbear,
    Keith Olbermann is a Stalinist Hasck for George soros and he's a Jihadi sympathizer. He's this generation's version of Tokyo Rose!

    Shred,
    hey let me know how those 72 Virgins were!

    winterbear,
    Keith Olbermann is a Stalinist Hasck for George soros and he's a Jihadi sympathizer. He's this generation's version of Tokyo Rose!

    Buddha said,

    "I am not a god, if you worship me you worship yourself"

    What two religions worship an image of a man?

    What two religions have produced the biggest population of naive gullible fools that their leaders send off to die in wars for them?

    Christians and Muslims

    Janet Hawkins,
    The U.S.S. Cole was a ship in the water, not owned by the U.S. It wasn't on U.S. soil. The embassies were in foreign countries which necessarily had foreign security and workers involved. The attempted attack on our Syrian embassy was only stopped by Syrian guards. Americans have been killed overseas in terrorist attacks since 9/11. This of course, conveniently forgets the anthrax terrorist attacks that are still unsolved.

    Winter Bear,

    I don't know about you but I'm disappointed at this sight that the splineless sheeple here can't back their shit up without the tired and lame "you dems are commies" rhetoric. Are you kiddin' me? Is that the best you morons got?
    How many of them do you suppose actually watched Olberman tonight and saw that indeed GWB DID NOTHING?!
    No meetings, no briefings, nada, zilch on Al Quada for months prior to 9/11.
    Oh, and Red Wolf/Annon calling me a commie won't change any ot that.


    I came here hoping to see some rebuttal against the facts that Olbermann had about the eight months before 9/11 but I haven't seen anything. Can someone help me find something anything? I just wish Condi had said something.

    BTW, I've already looked at the 9/11 commission andit hasn't helped.

    redwolf,
    The genocide in Sudan began in 2003. Bush was President and has done nothing about it. Ask him why he's ignored it. Maybe you meant the Rwandan genocide? Clinton intervened in Kosovo to stop the genocide.

    "How about a t-shirt saying I survived republican parents who didn't want me but had me anyway cause they had to but they beat the shit out of me and hated me and wished I was never born. You don't think there are a few of those people out there. My parents were democrats who had a kid when they wanted and felt it right to have one.

    Posted by: codas at September 27, 2006 09:08 PM"

    And then he turned into you. OOOOPPS. Seriously i can back up the abortion facts and demographics. You can only slur hard working, honest, christians. With no support of the facts. But check the East St. Louis child murder story that broke recently about how Dems treat the ones they dont abort. Dems going the way of the DoDo thank god.

    Posted by: Anonymous at September 27, 2006 09:43 PM
    I hate to be the one to tell you but dems are not going the wy of the DoDo. I think Frank Zappa said it best, and it applies well with current "republicans". He said, "If your children ever find out how lame you really are they'll murder you in your sleep." It is going to be hard for history to erase the countless mistakes that have been made by the republicans. Kids grow up and rebel. Get ready for a generation that you never dreamed of.

    I see that the commie leftards have come here to defend their fearless(yeah right) leader the great olbytard. Nice of you boys to entertain us all but you can go back to your gay bars now.
    winterbear if you are part to what you call the human race then we will have to take it back from you. You would not survive a day out of your little crusty basement.
    you prog fags are all have your panties in knot because you can't marry your little boyfriends. And you are pissed because you know olbermann preaches the leftard gospel of BS and hypocrisy. Better get ready to lose at the polls big time again. Until the democrats straighten up you little commie morons you are never going to get elected.
    No wonder you had to change your name to "progressives" . people hate liberals enough but you a--holes are worse and dumber than liberals. you follow somebody like the big olbytard and you are stupid enough to believe his bullshit. Shows what kind of brain dead shitbags you are.

    red wolf,
    The nazi's were fascists which are right-wingers. The Islamic terrorists are also right-wingers. They have the same extreme religious views as the religious right in this country. Iran is a theocracy. The religious right wants the U.S. to be a theocracy. Liberals are secular humanists who supposedly hate God and are atheists. Your stupid Republican talking points don't make any sense.

    I sense some serious anger issues here. I do not have my panties in a knot and I have a female spouse and don't need to marry my little boyfriend. I don't follow Olbermann, I recognise that he is telling another side of the story that I don't get from fox. You are too angry.

    There we go Riverdog,

    I think he duth protest too much!

    Swaggert condemnded porno for years then confessed to being addicted to it. Now we have klanman calling others gay. Makes a man wonder what Riverdog is hiding!

    Colbert

    By international law any embassy in any country is de facto part of its territory. Remember Cardinal Mizinsky?

    The USS Cole is by extension a part of the US. An attack on a warship is the same as an attack on the US. I guess in your mind Pearl Harbor was an attack on a couple boats in the waters of a an acquaintance.

    And the 3 or 4 repubs who started out wag the dog were pulled back hard and quick. We were wrong then and you and your side are wrong now. But you and your like minded go way beyond dissent. I consider you bordering on treason. Given a choice between pulling the plug on President Bush et al or the murderous leaders of the Islamofascists I swear I think Bush would have to go.

    I wonder if the root of riverdog's anger is that he is gay and can't accept it. It would make sense with all the homophobic comments he makes. Most people who are obsessed with gays usually have had homosexual tendencies in their lives.

    The Taliban and Al Qaeda types don't have to work too hard to destroy this nation - Bush is doing it for them. If I had to choose between being afraid of a terrorist destroying the fabric of my constitutional rights and Bush doing it I would pick Bush as the one being the biggest threat to my ability to live with the freedoms our fore fathers fought and died for.

    Only the culture of Jim and Tammy Baker support the retarded party of Hillbilly Republicans in power untill Nov 8th.

    anon- he did spend time with men in a jungle. Sounds pretty gay to me

    Can't we all just get along? I mean,...can't we?

    Janet Hawkins,
    The Founders would be ambarrassed by people like you. Criticizing a President borders on treason? Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, and all the other dictators would agree completely with you. Unfortunately for you, we have the right to free speech. We've had people killed by terrorist attacks on military bases and even in the green zone in Iraq since 2003. Why doesn't that count? Any logic used to claim we haven't been attacked since 9/11 means Clinton wasn't attacked after 1993. Keep trying though.

    Colbert. Thank you for pointing out that are miltary is a target that has been hit many times and it is because they have been left in a srcewed up position that they shouldn't be in. There is no comparison to who left us more vulnerable.

    Count Down Live with Keith Olbemann

    5pm PT 8pm est

    Great show tonight. Excelent review of how Bush made it clear he was not intersted in anything but Iraq.

    Today the Taliban are making a come back and Iraq has costed this nation more than $300million.

    No money for homeland security, under Bush's watch millions of illegal aliens were gainfully employed bush huge finacial supporters of the republican crime party.

    I would think the racist base of klansman would be sore about the borders. Doesn't anyone listen to Pat Buchanon any more?

    just bumping this:

    I came here hoping to see some rebuttal against the facts that Olbermann had about the eight months before 9/11 but I haven't seen anything. Can someone help me find something anything? I just wish Condi had said something.

    BTW, I've already looked at the 9/11 commission andit hasn't helped.

    You've come to the wrong place. This a place that wear people come to sling mud. Facts are for fools. Bush once said, "Facts? We don't need no stinking facts!"

    "They had to melt my keys and destroy my wallet!" "They pelted me with rocks and garbage!" "Boo-hoo-hoo, I got a widdle soap in my eyes!" Suck it up Uberbitch, it's the price of fame. Pathetic wimp.

    Colbert

    Afghanistan and Iraq are batttles in the War on Terrorism. These men and women, God bless them, are casualities in that conflict. They have put themselves between them and us. I give thanks to them every day.

    Did I do anything to limit free speech for anyone? I exercised my right to speak. If you dont like the opinion I express thats your problem. You dont have a right to applause and agreement.

    My opinion is that what we are seeing today is not the loyal opposition dissenting, but the disloyal opposition giving aid and comfort and encouragement to an enemy who hangs on your every word.

    Ive read a great deal about WWII. I remember Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War One. The dissent now has never even come close to what we have now. Politics used to stop a the waters edge. I dont know why but something has broken in our country. I know we better fix it quick or my great grandchildren might be wearing burques and speaking farsi for a while until some muslim cuts their heads off.

    Second try. You didnt answer my question. Who would you ans your fellow quislings condemn--Bush et al or The islamofascists to death given a choice.

    I don't think a pathetic wimp would have the guts to come out and say in public what Keith has been saying. He knows he is leaving himself open to hostility from people who can't stand the fact that someone is talking back to them.

    Like I said olberman probably just pulled this anthrax stunt to gain publicity and garner sympathy from his loyal slugs. Who the hell would even waste their time on this nutjob? He will self destruct anyway in November when the republicans pick up even more seats.But you notice how he went after right wingers for the supposed attack? He is just trying to spew more hate towards conservatives and make himself more credible- which he ain't. The only thing more pathetic thatn olberlooney-toons are the sad little progs that come here and try and defend him. poor little leftards.

    Janet said.
    My opinion is that what we are seeing today is not the loyal opposition dissenting, but the disloyal opposition giving aid and comfort and encouragement to an enemy who hangs on your every word.

    So you think people should just shut up and say nothing because the bad guys are listening. I don't understand how you can support dissent but say shut up at the same time

    None of those soldiers family's who died in Iraq should have to go through the pain they are suffering. The Taliban would be squash right now if we had someone other than that idiot Bush as president, he can't even say three words with looking like a classroom clown.

    The fact that you say "support our troops" means what to the children of the those GI"s who come home injured or worse dead?

    Bush is a fuck up and Cheney is a corprate hog out to make a buck for military contractors.

    All you a--holes that think an oppostion is wrong when we have such piss poor leadership have the nerve to say you support our troops.

    BULLSHIT! You support the brain dead practice of letting others think for you like Limbaugh and Hannity. It begans with church were you let some grease ball tell how to be religous and that lends itself to letting you be sheep for a horible bunch like Bush's gang lead by Rove.

    You suck with you crap about dissent. Don't tell me about troops that you are thankfull for. You don't know shit about the hell their families are going through. You make me sick!

    I am going to save the comment below and post it Nov 9th

    "Like I said olberman probably just pulled this anthrax stunt to gain publicity and garner sympathy from his loyal slugs. Who the hell would even waste their time on this nutjob? He will self destruct anyway in November when the republicans pick up even more seats.But you notice how he went after right wingers for the supposed attack? He is just trying to spew more hate towards conservatives and make himself more credible- which he ain't. The only thing more pathetic thatn olberlooney-toons are the sad little progs that come here and try and defend him. poor little leftards.

    Posted by: riverdog at September 28, 2006 01:20 AM"

    Nov 9th

    It's called denial. The idea that this country is still trusting them enough to keep voting them in. The only way that will happen is if is fixed. It might happen come to think of it.

    One last bump before going to bed. Ill check in the morning:

    I came here hoping to see some rebuttal against the facts that Olbermann had about the eight months before 9/11 but I haven't seen anything. Can someone help me find something anything? I just wish Condi had said something.

    BTW, I've already looked at the 9/11 commission andit hasn't helped.

    Coda

    The term loyal opposition means something. It means dissent practiced in a careful, thoughtful way that does not aid the enemy. It does not encompass what we are getting ftom the Democrats, the MSM and private citizens.

    90% of the crap that is out there would never had happened in WWII. The MSN wouldnt have been cherry picking Classified documents. Elected officials of the US calling the president a liar, murderer, coward, criminal war proffiteer.

    This is a pathological hatred of President Bush. You all run around lathering each other up to the point that in your frenzy you are starting to pose a threat to the ability of the country to pursue a very needed War on Terror.

    Second try. You didnt answer my question. Who would you ans your fellow quislings condemn--Bush et al or The islamofascists to death given a choice.

    Haven't gotten an answer from any of you yet.

    Third try. Which one?

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Me too. Don't hold your breath. The hillbillies that troll here have no clue what a fact is. God is on their side is what they think - just like the Taliban!

    Coda

    The term loyal opposition means something. It means dissent practiced in a careful, thoughtful way that does not aid the enemy. It does not encompass what we are getting ftom the Democrats, the MSM and private citizens.

    90% of the crap that is out there would never had happened in WWII. The MSN wouldnt have been cherry picking Classified documents. Elected officials of the US calling the president a liar, murderer, coward, criminal war proffiteer.

    This is a pathological hatred of President Bush. You all run around lathering each other up to the point that in your frenzy you are starting to pose a threat to the ability of the country to pursue a very needed War on Terror.

    Second try. You didnt answer my question. Who would you ans your fellow quislings condemn--Bush et al or The islamofascists to death given a choice.

    Haven't gotten an answer from any of you yet.

    Third try. Which one?

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet all that you have said is strait from the mouth of Hannity and Limbaugh.

    And as for you fucked attempt to get someone to say something akin to a threat on the presidents life - I think you demonstrate a very pathetic desire to entrap people. Who the fuck are you some intern with a gov agency that breaks the rules to score points.

    Fuck you and request for death threats. Your an a--hole!

    You have no clue what it means to be loyal to this country. You are a traitor and all the rest of you bible thumping brain dead idiots are the ones giving aid and comfort to the islamists. Religious fundamentalists are the number one cause of evil on this planet, Christian and Muslim - you are the enemy of freedom. 500 years of bibles in one hand and the chains of slaves in the other that is the legacy of white southern protestants.

    Go fuck yourself you a--hole!

    Jesus Christ

    I'll take that as a vote for Bush et al.

    Tsk tsk tsk. Forgot your meds tonight or did someone forget to give some juice and cookies and put you down for a little nap!

    I know. These stupid ignorant people just dont understand how great you are.

    Your arguments are so scintillating and persuasive.

    I bet you got an A in how to win friends and influence people, didnt you?

    Struck a chord there did I.

    Janet Hawkins
    Grammie

    Janet said,
    90% of the crap that is out there would never had happened in WWII. The MSN wouldnt have been cherry picking Classified documents. Elected officials of the US calling the president a liar, murderer, coward, criminal war proffiteer.


    For one thing, we live in a different time. It's not the 40's. People have access to things easier now. As far as calling the president a a liar, murderer, coward, criminal war proffiteer, thats what Clinton was called for 8 years. He was impeached. How did that go over to the rest of the world. It cannot be denied that while some peole were determined to take him down by any means they could, other people were plotting 911.
    I would not choose Bush or islamofacists. I want someone who is clever and wise. Someone who I believe does know that the same God made both of us. It's not okay to kill people who you think might be a threat someday and believe that you are doing God a favor. That is what I think will get us killed in the end.


    Give me a break. You put significance to your prose by the fact that derive a repulsive reaction from others? I bet you were raised by some interesting parents.

    Fact is the "base" of this criminal administration is the cultural descendants of the klu klux klan. No way to dodge that one, all you can do is pretend no one notices the obvious nature of your scars from being socialized by hundreds of years of sanctioning lynching's and segregation and let us not forget hundreds of years of slavery.

    We know who in American history has the most evil background - white southern protestants and all those who jumped on their band wagon of "evangelical Christianity" aka - we're doing are damdest to look like something other than what we are.

    Where's Jim and Tammy Baker when we need them?

    Anyone got a count on how many TV evangelists there are in Florida and Arizona? Or any other place that has a lot of retirees?

    Always the cons always the evil ones in American culture.

    Sick pathetic evil people - American Taliban - been to Christian Camp lately? (google it)

    Where did they all go???? I don't think this site is turning out the way they wanted it to. Although I do thank them for it.

    Janet, honey, if you want something taken seriously, please don't use bogus rhetorical devices like false dichotomy while your asking the question. I know Hannity does it all the time but lets try to be better than that.

    Still, I am going to answer your question best I can.

    I condemn the Bush for his incompetence, cronyism, inept diplomacy and malfeasance. I also don't like the way his administration has supported torture, no bid contracts for friends, insane budget deficits, lack of respect for human rights and international law (most of which WE authored over the last 50 years). I think his handling of the Iraq war, Katrina, Dubai ports deal, Harriet Myers, Valery Plame and a dozen other issues has been disgraceful.

    But I do not think that anyone in the Bush Administration should be put to death for it. I don't even think they should be impeached. I am kind of ambivalent about jail time for the crimes they have committed. I think they and their bankrupt neocon philosophies like preemptive invasion should be marginalized and then put out to pasture with the other bad political ideas of the past. (i.e. monarchy and communism).

    At the same time, I also condemn the terrorists for acts of brutality and outright murder of innocents. Its not really an either or thing. These are criminals and should be treated as such and brought to justice. I am not big on the death penalty because I think it would be a greater punishment for these people to be put into jail and kept alive for as long as possible to stew in their own hate.

    You see the bottom line is that I hold my president to a higher standard than I do the terrorists. I really want him to be a good guy. I dont hate the guy, but I am bitterly disappointed that he has turned out to be far worse than any president we have ever had. That does not mean I want to give the terrorist a free pass.

    By the way... if you want to be taken seriously outside of the right wing echo chambers you should drop the term Islamofascist. It makes no since. A fascist is someone who believes government and corporate interests should work together to form a "more perfect" state. Italy and Germany were the only truly fascist states. The USA has some fascist tendencies but we keep them in check most of the time. The people your calling islamofascists have no state, hate most corporations and want to establish a theocracy. Islamic Extreamists is a much better term.

    Janet, honey, if you want something taken seriously, please don't use bogus rhetorical devices like false dichotomy while your asking the question. I know Hannity does it all the time but lets try to be better than that.

    Still, I am going to answer your question best I can.

    I condemn the Bush for his incompetence, cronyism, inept diplomacy and malfeasance. I also don't like the way his administration has supported torture, no bid contracts for friends, insane budget deficits, lack of respect for human rights and international law (most of which WE authored over the last 50 years). I think his handling of the Iraq war, Katrina, Dubai ports deal, Harriet Myers, Valery Plame and a dozen other issues has been disgraceful.

    But I do not think that anyone in the Bush Administration should be put to death for it. I don't even think they should be impeached. I am kind of ambivalent about jail time for the crimes they have committed. I think they and their bankrupt neocon philosophies like preemptive invasion should be marginalized and then put out to pasture with the other bad political ideas of the past. (i.e. monarchy and communism).

    At the same time, I also condemn the terrorists for acts of brutality and outright murder of innocents. Its not really an either or thing. These are criminals and should be treated as such and brought to justice. I am not big on the death penalty because I think it would be a greater punishment for these people to be put into jail and kept alive for as long as possible to stew in their own hate.

    You see the bottom line is that I hold my president to a higher standard than I do the terrorists. I really want him to be a good guy. I dont hate the guy, but I am bitterly disappointed that he has turned out to be far worse than any president we have ever had. That does not mean I want to give the terrorist a free pass.

    By the way... if you want to be taken seriously outside of the right wing echo chambers you should drop the term Islamofascist. It makes no since. A fascist is someone who believes government and corporate interests should work together to form a "more perfect" state. Italy and Germany were the only truly fascist states. The USA has some fascist tendencies but we keep them in check most of the time. The people your calling islamofascists have no state, hate most corporations and want to establish a theocracy. Islamic Extreamists is a much better term.

    Codas
    He was charged with perjury, convicted an forced to give up his law license. As for charges of murder, war profitteering and I dont think so.

    Clinton ran on concentrating on domestic policy and pulling away from foreign emphasis. Jim Woolsey claimed he had one meeting with Clinton in 8 years, he refused to meet with Louis Freeh at all, had few or none with George Tenant or Richard Clarke I believe. He treated terrorism as a Law and Order issue. This was a mistake.

    The current admin pretty much continued his thrust with a start at possibly tweaking it a bit.

    Both could have done better jobs before 9/11. After 9/11 all bets were off. This country had to and did make a 90 degree turn.

    Roosevelt, is along with Churchill, Reagan and Thatcher the towering figures of the 20th century.

    Roosevelt bucked the country and his own party to keep England alive. And I dont think he was overconcerned with legalities doing it. Thats what made him great. He risked all to the right and necessary thing at the right time.

    The threat we face today is a difference in kind, not a difference in degree. Lose the war we are in now and the consequences will be just as great had we not stopped fascism

    That is why I say we dont have a LOYAL opposition today. You must al least acknowledge that the type and volume of opposition could encourage our enemies to hold on for a more favorable climate to make for them to make war against us.

    I think Bush and his people have made some missteps. However I approve overall of the tactics and stratergies he has implemented. But can you imagine a MSN and politicians venting their spleen about Market Garden and the Battle of the Bulge like goes on today. And im sure youre well aware there would have been plenty to gripe about.

    How do you think KO,s rantings against the president help other than to harm us?

    I am not denying anyones right to free speech. T just hope they exercise it responsibly and truthfully.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Winterbear sweetie pie sugar lump. I am a conservative but please dont call me honey.

    I read your post and it has enough in it that I would like to respond.

    However, Im old enough to be on social security and i have got to go bed and get some sleep.

    Look forward to seeing you again. Sleep tight.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    I hear you. And I know it's all been discussed a million times about Clinton. It was wrong then and it is wrong now to try to destroy a presidents credibilty because he is not "one of us". Clinton was wrong but he was politically railroaded, and it hurt any credibilty he had to do anything. The "Loyal opposition" at that time, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter etc.. disgraced him before the whole world. And I still do think it is more of a law and order issue. I want security in my own country first and foremost. What Olbermann is saying is just a drop in the buckett compared to the daily attacks Clinton got. He was accused of murder by Falwell. People I know said he was just evil. Why? Because the "Loyal opposition" at that time told them he was.

    Enjoyed your stuff tonight, Janet. Get some sleep and ready and rested to come and be called unamerican and a traitor by people complaining that their speech is being squelched by George Bush intimating that they are unamerican and traitors...

    Enjoyed your stuff tonight, Janet. Get some sleep and ready and rested to come and be called unamerican and a traitor by people complaining that their speech is being squelched by George Bush intimating that they are unamerican and traitors...


    What???


    I think the problem your having is two fold:

    1) We are not really at war. at least not by the classic definition. What war there was ended in 2003. What we are doing now is more correctly called an occupation.

    When the other side in your war does not have a government or an army anymore... you need to declare an end to the war. The bush administration should have declared peace in 2003.

    The Bush admin did not do this. They like saying they are at war and they like having the power that being at war brings them. They also like using being at war as a defense against criticism. It worked really well for a few years, but its not working so well now for them.

    Almost all of my criticisms come from the bungling of the OCCUPATION of Iraq (2003-present) not the War in Iraq (March-about June 2003).

    2) The war on Terror is not a real war. Its like the war on drugs or the war on poverty. Its a rhetorical device and should not be confused with a war between two sovereign states.

    the bush administration has (cynically and deliberately in my mind) promoted, interwoven and confused these two things with great skill in order to profit politically.

    And its worked.. they got their second term.

    I believe that things get a lot clearer when you call them what they really are.

    9-11 was a crime.

    we started a war in Iraq and it was over quickly

    We have bungled the occupation of Iraq so completely that it has greatly helped the criminals responsible for 9-11.

    as more people realise these things, the volume of the critisism is going up up up... And as Keith said the other night, The free pass given to bush after 9-11 is no longer valid.

    winterbear.

    You layed it out nice.

    Janet,

    Sorry about that.... I am from Texas and we call people we like Hon or honey...

    Your the only person on the right wing side of this board that has made a lick of since tonight.

    Sorry if I offended you... it was ment as a term of endearment.

    Be well,

    Question to Ari Fleischer February 27, 2001


    Reporter: "The Taliban in Afghanistan, they have offered that that they are ready to hand over Osama bin Laden to Saudi Arabia if the United States would drop its sanctions, and they have a kind of deal that they want to make with the United States. Do you have any comments?"

    Ari: "Let me take that, and get back to you on that."

    *****"My parents were democrats who had a kid when they wanted and felt it right to have one."*****


    Did they want a girl?

    Not sure if anyone mentioned this already...in response to one of KO's quesitons, Kurtz said that terrorism is the biggest challenge we will face in the next 10-20 years. I'm sure he won't be a guest on the show again after saying that.

    You know, sometimes I'm too lazy to click on the file to open the application that the file that I copy and paste is in.

    So...
    johnny dollar:
    You have no tact. It's a false sense of tact that true satire balances on. But you can't write satire, because you have no talent.
    Some wise dead man once recorded that "you can hope against hope that nothing will change." And if I cared more about you, maybe I'd actually work the analogy, but, ah, you're not worth it.

    Keith Olbermann gave you the explanation for why MSNBC didn't cover the hell out of the Fox News camera men kidnapping like it was Natalee Holloway. So, where's the link to the part on this site where you were bitching about that? When do you remind the readers here not smart enough to pick up on their own that you are, in fact, not smart?

    Because you're not smart. Maybe you should watch more tv? Maybe a coupke thousand more episodes of something would pop some new ideas in your head, given that the ones you lean back on are so sad and so small and beyond mediocre.

    So, johnny, where's the link to your bitching about Keith not covering the FN kidnapping, and where's your cross-link to the transcript of last night's countdown.

    WHERE"S YOUR ACCOUNTABILITY, JOHNNY?!?

    Where's your integrity?

    Where's your pride?


    I already know the answer to all of those questions, of course. You can't give someone directions to something that doesn't exist.

    My parents were democrats who had a kid when they wanted and felt it right to have one."*****


    Did they want a girl?

    No. They got what they wanted. 5 kids, all who married members of the opposite sex . No I am not gay. I am just a person who thinks people should let other people make their own choices.
    If someone is against abortion, as I am, just don't be a part of one. It's not my place to make other people have kids that they dont want.

    > Olbermann gave you the explanation for why MSNBC didn't cover the hell out of the Fox News camera men kidnapping like it was Natalee Holloway.

    He gave AN explanation, which given his track record is more likely than not a lie. But I didn't complain that KO didn't "cover the hell out of" the story. I noted that he didn't mention at all, not even once, not even one sentence. THAT was not true of the rest of MSNBC's schedule, or CNN, or any other news source. EVERYONE at least MENTIONED the story, except Olbermann.

    His phony excuse, which he only trots out to enhance an unconvincing exploitation of his own victimhood, isn't worth the paper it isn;'t printed on.

    Another Sarah classic. Here is the distillation of her last post in her own words:

    "I'm too lazy . . ."
    "I copy and paste . . ."
    "I cared more . . ."
    "I'd actually work . . ."
    "I already know the answer . . ."

    That's our Sarah. It's all about her. She seems to think we are all interested in her, hence the use of the letter "I," even when she has been made aware of her verbal onanism. Of course the best part of her post always occurs at the end of her solipsistic soliloquy. The climax is always, "I already know the answer," or "I will NOT dignify any responses with my time!" Sarah, you win the award for "most obnoxious Olbermanniac."

    Okay which one of you nuts sent an antrax hoax to your enemy? I know whoever did it reads this site. You do know that you are stupid and will be caught, right?

    And nice try defending Bush. The mean congress wouldn't approve appointments fast enough! We couldn't deal with terrorism beacuse of the meanies in congress! Man, the stuff you guys believe as your flawed worldview collapses around you.

    Dishonest Abe: "Okay which one of you nuts sent an antrax hoax to your enemy? I know whoever did it reads this site. You do know that you are stupid and will be caught, right?"

    Yes, I believe Keith Olbermann DOES read this site. He sent it to himself. Several anonymous sources have indicated this to me. I used the Countdown method of analysis. Second on my short list is YOU Abe, trying to frame conservatives. That is classic Olbylogic.

    can you hear the twig snap
    while your uncle or your father
    slides back to Nam
    hear the ring
    pulse jumps 0 to redline
    they fight back the tears
    wish at moments they were blind

    they would stick bamboo up the ass
    and leave them there
    Communist, they have no feeling toward father or son
    they hate any ideal of self worth

    Cong and Marx, Martin Luther King

    Malcom,
    Jesse would spit in their food
    as the Muslims rape your brothers
    in the pen
    can you hear the flesh bruise
    hear the penis rip apart the young white males
    life
    as you visit the n..ger in Jail

    can you hear as you smile in your self center mocking look
    as you hug up with that n...ger beast
    can you hear your father's soul die!

    as you hip and hop
    to the words of kill whitey
    could you hear your grandfather call out for help
    while they beat him down
    can you hear your brother
    beg for his love
    beg for his right to live
    and preserve

    I sit and watch the world and the culture I love
    going to hell because hell to them seems to be good,
    refusing the protection I offer them and opening up
    their hearts and hearths to that which comes
    out of the night and the woods to deceive and defile.

    I train myself, though not fast enough, to prepare for a fight,
    I train my body and mind for the struggle, I deprive myself of a "normal life",
    not because I don't want it, but because I fear that I will have to sacrifice my values, If I want to raise a family or take a wife.

    I stand ready to take my orders and fight in the RaHoWa,
    at least as ready as I can be, prepared mentally, preparing physically,
    yet I wonder as I see the white women, throwing away their heritage, mixing their blood, attacking me because I am so filled with a love and willingness to defend my own, "is this what I'm fighting for? Maybe the white woman is too dead set on racial suicide to ever be protected at all, not from the enemy but from herself."

    voice. what the fuck are you fucking talking about?

    and take your meds.

    Mr "Voice,"

    I humbly ask you to post your insane ramblings at a website that cares. This is Olbermannwatch. We watch Olbermann, and comment on Olbermann. The Internet is indeed a frightening place.

    The controlled media makes normal white men look like boring square dorks if they wear pants that fit correctly and a dress shirt. Any such white man is immediately in need of being downsized and replaced by a half priced Hindu programmer.

    Dressing like a clown is now considered the new "cool".

    But what do I know? When every white man I see in commercials is an idiot needing guidance and correction from calm cool and collected black men and the smirking blond hottie who looks sideways with embarrassment at anything boring square dorky white man says when he opens his mouth to make a fool of himself.

    Just more clueless victims of the jewish media. When acting like an idiotic and violent black rapper is considered "cool". The things that will get into a person's head from watching TV. Clown is cool. As with everything else in upside down society.

    The Olberloons should all be dropped off in the worst ghettos in the country. So go rap with your ni**as and preach love and peace to all the bloods,crips,latin kings, nation of islam, ect and see what happens. Please I dare you.

    there is help out there. get some quick. both of you are fucking nuts

    The root of the problem is the prevalent "jock" culture at the American high school. The ruling jock aristocracy is only open to a small number of good athletes. The rest of the white males are made to feel that they are worthless, simply because they are not good at sports. These boys respond in an understandably rebellious way: by acting like nigs they can get their revenge for their exclusion from elite white H.S. society: they hang out in groups, fight dirty, break laws, and most importantly, drive the jock kings and prom queens up the wall with their general demeanor.
    We should reach out to these scrawny, pimply faced "losers," and build their self-esteem by educating them about the greatness of their race, before traitors like Olbermann get to them. In the long run these whigger boys can be just as important to the cause as is the quarterback of the football team.

    Good point Steve. It mainly happens because of schools. Schools are environment that encourages those attending to develop a petty group mentality and to compare oneself to the others' selves. That is what people like Olbermann take advantage of. If the majority of children were homeschooled and involved in healthy activities even without a explicitely white education this puerile concern about being 'cool' and popular wouldn't be there.

    One of my classes in school is full of whiggers and three kids at a time are alwayse blasting their 50 Cent and Tupac. One day, our teacher told them "when you get a better taste in music, you can listen to it that loud" and they were all like "*gasp* she's RACEIST!" . If any Olber-lovin' 'gangster' called me raceist (a few have) I just say something like "Since when was it 'gangster' to be multicultural and loving of everyone of different cultures and sexualities? What, do you like rainbows and unicorns too?" . That really gets to them.

    Whenever somebodies rap music is bothering me I just tell them "turn off that f**king jungle music!".

    Calm down Steve. In a decade or so, the term 'Olberloon' will become a source of humiliation, shame and embarrassment for whites associated with it, in the same way negative connotations relating to terms like 'slut', 'slapper', 'alcohi,' 'flid', 'retard', etc have today.

    Eventually, they will gradually veer away from their present fascinations with anything liberal.

    "Whenever somebodies rap music is bothering me I just tell them "turn off that f**king jungle music!"."

    There you go. You need to calm down.

    > I used the Countdown method of analysis.

    Brilliantly stated. Using OlbyLogic, all you need is for someone to ask a question, say at a press conference. Once that happens, the question instantaneously becomes historical fact, despite the expert you're interviewing dismissing it like the reports we get of UBL being dead.

    So if you ask the question, "Did Keith send the package to himself?", it's no longer a question. It becomes a fact. OlbyLogic turned against itself!

    I hope you are right, but I don't see how you can be so sure.

    Can you give us some background as to how you came to this conclusion? We need the encouragement.

    I sincerely believe that the biggest reason for this Olberman epidemic" is the fact that mainstream culture is being suppressed. Kids today are being force-fed black "history", black culture, and "ebonics" daily, through not only channels like MTV and BET, but even the average news media group has been forcing everyone to view this nonsense. It's the liberal MSM problem agian. Olbermann is only one of the outward flourishes.

    White children today have been stripped of any pride in their race altogether. And why? Because being a proud White person is "racism", by the standards of the liberal population.

    Therefore, in order to not be shunned by his fellow classmates, he must follow the flock, for fear of being criticized. Meanwhile, any attempt at being proud of his heritage will most likely cause the poor child to be suspended from school because, as you all know, being a proud White person these days is becoming a crime.

    And I mean that literally. We're almost there, folks.

    We have the numbers of a majority, and the abilities of a minority.

    In our own lands.

    Mr. Dollar, I smell a SPAM artist. Several different names, several nasty posts, all the same content and topic. Are the IP addresses all the same for "Voice," "Laffa," "Steve," and "VLC"? If so, why is someone so intent on having a dialog with himself on a topic irrelevant to the site? Hmmmmmmmm.... my Olbylogic circuits are tingling!

    Brainwashing kids that ceonservative history, achievement, culture is un-cool.
    Plus the glorification of liberal culture in the media. The media tells people what is & isn’t 'cool', 'in', 'hip' etc. That is Olbermann to a T.

    In reality it’s not the liberals fault for acting like a retard. They need some guidance and to be taught about real history, culture & achievement. You then you have a nice respectable conservative person.

    There's an urban music channel in the UK. It specialises on UK rap or 'grime' with videos of 'crews' from around the country, mainly in London. The videos are provoking violence & giving out a false image of reality for young males. Black 'crews' with always one or two already-whiggers wearing hoodies with a few BMX bikes in council estates rapping about how there crew is better & tougher then others. Saying you need a car with 'rims', expensive Jewry that can any be purchased if you rob someone and how you should only aspire to deal drugs, 'hustle' & be a 'pimp', otherwise you’re a pussy and a ‘waste-man’

    My problem is that liberal people can’t afford satellite TV so who are the people that are watching it? The kids of regular conservaties.

    Channel U have asked viewers to email them, so they can put channle U on Cable TV.

    I didn't expect you to be the one whining and trying to silence people KfK. But then this disease goes far, even to places you wouldn't expect. If you don't like the discussion or it makes you uncomfortable to think about the real issues behind Olberman and the liberals, then TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE.

    Olby probably asked BJ Bill who he should interview. After all, the Intern Molester in Chief is the one Olby is desperately trying to ingratiate himself with here.

    I am going out on a limb to guess Olby will utter between five and twelve "Tora Bora"'s, and possibly three to five "outsourcing"'s during tonights sinful spin- and spite-fest.

    I was hoping to get some facts to counter Olberman's charges but Isee thats going to be impossible.

    I expected better of a site that calls itslef Olbermanwatch.

    KfK, your instincts are, as usual, correct. Voice, laffa, Steve, VrV, and several other aliases are all from the same IP address. He's also masqueraded as KfK (the 11:16 am post just above this one). Quite a courageous fellow.

    What will be the talking points of the Democratic National Committe hourlong infomercial at 8:00 tonight on MSNBC

    JD wrote: "He's also masqueraded as KfK (the 11:16 am post just above this one)."

    Very interesting! He copied an old post of mine and reprinted it from his IP in an attempt to throw you off the tracks! That is some very cynical behavior, and indicative of a leftist SPAM attack! These Olbermanniacs make it too easy.

    Kfk,

    Its a compliment that VrV, et al, cut-n-pasted a previous post of yours instead of venturing to put his/her words in your mouth.

    ok...

    KO puts O'Reilly's face on the cover of his book.

    O'Reilly won't even mention KO's name.

    O'Reilly constantly gets more than 4 times as many viewers as KO.

    Who is smarter and who is doing better?

    Here is a great satire on Olbermann's "special comments". It is long, but it mimics perfectly the pomposity and sheer lunacy of Orange Boy the most rabid Bush hater going on cable talk show land:

    http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/09/a_clockwork_str.html

    Methinks olby's puckered face is getting into third place because he is posting his rants on YouTube ona daily basis.

    I really don't watch him at all anymore. I think his fake tan is a result of olby being so full of S^!+.

    Hank, thanks for this link!

    I LOVED this:

    '"At least I tried," he said of his own efforts to capture or kill Osama bin Laden. "That’s the difference in me and some, including all of the right-wingers who are attacking me now. They had eight months to try; they did not try. I tried. I really really extremely really tried. They didn't try and I did, and this is the real difference, the trying. And also, I tried."'

    and this:

    "-Let us reflect on His trying, how he tried, and His many trying trials. We must ask, “what would Clinton try?”

    The Bush Administration did not try to get Osama bin Laden before 9/11.

    The Bush Administration failed to read the Clinton scouting report on Bin Laden, which showed you could brush him back off the plate with a cruise missile low and outside.

    The Bush Administration did not try.

    Bill Clinton? Tried."

    Johnny I read the first thing about the NIE and you claiming that it is classified. That is not the point Olbermann was trying to make when he said the white house is trying to keep it under wraps.

    Let me help you understand. What the white house did is it took the report and refused to label it as an NIE so members of congress didn't see it. I would love for you to explain that to your readers.

    Cecelia, so do you believe Bush tried harder than Clinton to get Osama? I think I asked you this before and you conceded Clinton did more, yet you seem to again be saying otherwise here.

    Posted by: Cecelia at September 28, 2006 12:59 PM

    Which is why Ive been trying to get someone to help me to find what I cant point out as trying for Bush. Anything, please!

    Im hearing this now:
    "Clinton tried, Bush lied."

    Cross posting from the other anthrax thread:

    The facts of the matter, from what I read, and from what the original post notes, indicates that:

    A) KO had no interest in "more tests", but they were required by police/FBI procedure.
    B) KO was incensed not that he got a death threat attempt, but that a paper and journalist reported it after the FBI had requested that the story be silenced.
    C) KO leveled some (essentially baseless) accusations via implication at Rupert Murdoch and neoconservatives, and some very well founded accusations at the NY Post and that particular reporter - who essentially aided the terrorist who sent the package. (Yes, it's on the books as a felony, not a prank - that qualifies the sender as a terrorist, not a jokester.) On that particular matter I agree entirely with him - it is not permissable to go publicizing terror attacks that the FBI has requested silence on. When your country's law enforcement agency says they're trying to reduce the impact of terrorist activities and you perform actions completely contrary to their requests, you deserve our scorn, on that I agree with olby.

    Whether you dislike or worship olby, those are the facts of the matter. This was a felony, a terrorist act, and reprehensible.

    ---

    That said, what a rabid (as in, foaming at the mouth) group of commentors we have here. A few gems, a lot of muck.

    "Yeah, I love the way Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wanted to wipe Israel off the map.

    Posted by: hit_escape at September 27, 2006 11:25 PM"

    Not me, BTW. Just an immature a--hole at 11:25.

    Lunchbreak, some of your points make sense. But the reporter from the Post did not know that anyone had requested silence on the matter. I don't know that myself, since all I have to go on is whåt Olby claims.

    If it is true that they wanted to keep this under wraps for investigative reasons, then it should not have been published. This is quite a dramatic flip-flop for Olby, however, who has been defending the public release of all sorts of anti-terror measures that law enforcement has been trying to keep under wraps, for investigative reasons.

    So if KO has finally found religion on the issue of premature publication of anti-terrorism measures, that's fine. If he's being honest, he'll object just as strenuously when leaks to the New York Times reveal ongoing investigative techniques in the war on terror. Why is it that, for some reason, I just don't think that's going to happen?

    Johnny, this has nothing to do with keeping a anti-terror story under wraps. This has to do with the FBI not wanting to make the sender aware that the letters reached their destination.

    However, that also has little to do with the fact that the article they wrote was written only to slander Olbermann. I hope you condamn such lies being printed in a newspaper.

    Exposing government officials who break the law (warrentless wire taps and torture and secret prisons) is compleatly different from exposing information about the investigation of a crime.

    I hesitate to post here because the level of discourse is far too highbrow. It's hard to imagine so many capable of such high level debatery. You rightwingers must really be proud. To be able to defend your positions so coherently without going into long, whinny, childlike rants full of ad-hominem attacks. Before I came here I was a neophyte on christian identity and all the evils that fags were doing. I never knew. Good show. Once the left sees the intelectual muscle here I bet they won't even be able to argue with segregation and gay-bashing. It's so clear from reading this sight. You aren't just raising the bar on blogging, your raising it on humanity. I hope you archive this so that your children and their children can see what the pinacle of sanity and tolerance (for only the few who really deserve such things) are. I'm sure they will be proud of the job you are doing here. You clearly are a gentleman and a scholar.

    couldn't read all the comments (that much hate makes me lose what little hope for humanity i have left). but just in case no one has told you today, you people are really fucked up. your hatred is the very reason your jesus will NEVER come back for you. he told me to tell you "you're on your own if this is what is in your hearts". Peace

    "This is quite a dramatic flip-flop for Olby, however, who has been defending the public release of all sorts of anti-terror measures"

    Johnny, it is my understanding that his and other liberal protests have been around those anti-terror measures that break our nation's laws, which is an important qualifier.

    That said, I don't follow any of this as closely as I could - however, the rhetoric I have read has questioned the lawfulness of said anti-terror tactics, which is reasonable in my eyes. Secret operations are one thing, secret illegal operations another.

    I dont hate the guy, but I am bitterly disappointed that he has turned out to be far worse than any president we have ever had.

    codas, you had me till that sentence. All were valid criticisms of the Administration up to that point. Too bad you couldn't control yourself and resorted to inane rhetoric. I'm not gonna list all the things that Bush has been better at than many Presidents from the past. Let's just agree we have a robust ecomomy. At least far more robust than many others presided over.

    Skeptical,

    We never had that conversation.

    But if you want my opinion, for the life of me, I don't see how such a comparision between a two-term president and an eight mo in office president makes sense or is fair to either party. It's the territory of campaign advertisements and blog board world federation of wrestling matches.

    However, this doesn't mean that it's out of bounds for reporters to ask either party to account for their pre-9/11 performance. Even when the reporter does work for Fox News.... From what I've seen Clinton has responded to such inquires by blowing up and essentially attempting to shut down questioning by implying some sort of personal animus in the question .. whether it is from Peter Jennings or later from Chris Wallace.

    Too, the "I tried, but I didn't get him, and isn't great that I'm sorry about it...line of argument is utterly meaningless. Well, so what you tried...A Democrat president can "try" and still be culpable for incompetence and bad judgement just as easily as a Republican president can be.

    That is unless you're Keith Olbermann. To him Clinton exhibits the wisdom and saintly humility that comes from earthly persecution when he fingerpoints at "rightwingers" like Fox News reporters (who have the teremity to ask such questions----imagine Rumsfeld getting away with that media assault...)and at the subsequent administration.

    Clinton has selflessly risked all by telling power that it wears no clothes....

    Olbermann's an idiot. YOu don't have to be.

    Useful idiot is a term from back in the days of the Cold War for people who perferred a non-hawk approach to Soviet aggression.

    The insanity just keeps on keeping on...

    This might have been a conversation I had with a member named Cee, my apologies.

    Cecelia, this is what I don't understand, maybe you can help me out. I am under the impression you believe the right wing is better at protecting this country from terrorism than the left. If I am wrong please correct me.

    Assuming this how can you actually believe that when the record shows that before 9/11 the left wing was hard at work trying to stop Bin Laden and the right was ridiculing them on every corner saying it was wag the dog. The right wing even went as far as calling the Osama Bin Laden threat exaggerated. The fact is that this happened a few years before 9/11 when 9/11 could have been prevented, and just maybe it could have been prevented if all sides were on the same page about how dangerous terrorism was, but the right wing refused to believe it was as serious of a threat as Clinton was trying to make it.

    Yet, you are now willing to turn around and say that is in the past and the right wing has learned its lesson and the left has forgetten everything they knew back then. This sounds completely irrational and tells me you are only looking to look at this from a very partisan way and refuse to address the simple facts.

    If a guy drives on a good record for 8 years and then a new guy comes and drives that same car into a ditch which guy will you give the keys to to drive you out of that ditch?

    The fact you guys are willing to say what happened 8 years ago doesn't matter anymore is exactly what is wrong with this country. You are not willing to learn from the lessons of the past, you are choosing to ignore them to protect your political affiliation for whatever selfish reason.

    One more thing, you say Clinton responds to those questions with anger. I would disagree but thats not important. Whats important is that you don't know how Bush would respond because you never hear Bush get asked these questions. Prove me wrong. Find me one time that Bush has been publicly questioned on his pre-911 performance in dealing with terrorism.

    Problem with Skepticals analogy... Its you liberals that have jumped out of the car screaming it went into a ditch when it has just moved farther down the road. Stop your whining about the country being messed up and realize you are safer now in these borders than you were 8 years ago. And just because you say the economy sucks doesn't make it true. The statistics say otherwise. Grow up chicken little.

    "Compared with five years ago, 39 percent of Americans say they feel less safe now, compared with only 14 percent who say they feel safer. Forty-six percent say they feel the same." Source brought to you by a two second google query. It's not just me that thinks our country is in more danger now than it was pre-9/11.

    Mostly because I understand the difference between the occasional bee sting and smacking a bee hive with a stick.

    I was pro-Afghanistan invasion, and on the fence about Iraq at the time. Looking back, I wish I'd done more than just doubt what the government was saying but abeyed any naysaying... I wish I'd actually dug a little deeper. There has been no evidence produced to me to justify the reasons for our invasion and occupation of Iraq in my eyes, and as far as I can tell all we've done is given an entire region good reason to hate us where before they were occupied with hating each other. Why would you feel safer?

    Let the adults talk please. As the NIE has stated no, the car has not moved further down the road. Do I also have to remind you of Katrina? Do I have to remind you of what is going on in Afghanistan? Do I have to remind you of the deficit we are facing in this country? Do I have to remind you of the higher gas prices? Do I have to remind you of the unemployment rate? Do I have to remind you of the falling home prices?

    Above post posted by me addressed to Benson. It is not posted by Benson.

    I wonder what the record for number of posts per story is on Olbermannwatch. This story just broke 250.

    Falling Home prices? Rising gas prices? Unemployment rate?

    Why not blame Bush for the endangerment mexican garter snake too?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060928/ap_on_sc/endangered_snake

    My post makes 251!!!

    First off...home prices were way overdue for a correction. Noone can afford them any more. Gas prices have risen substantially, true, but currently are on the way down. Maybe we needed a rise in gas prices, to get the car manufacturers to start thinking about fuel economy/alternative energy sources and for people to start conserving/carpoooling.

    Not sure where you going with unemployment rate. I understand it's pretty low. Anyone in this country can find a job if they look.

    Skeptical,

    I don't know how you've gotten the impression that I'm arguing that what happened eight years ago "doesn't matter", from my statement about comparisions between the two pre-9/11 administrations. I said just the opposite.

    As to Clinton's tangential screed on "wag-the-dog" accusations from some of his opponents as an irrelevant answer to Chris Wallace's question, I refer you to a piece by Jake Tapper( hardly a rightwinger) reminding us of just who helped Clinton do what....

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2006/09/the_truth_about.html


    Too, it seems your earlier question as to my opinion on whether Bush or Clinton tried harder to get Bin Laden, has now morphed into whether I think Dems or Republicans are better able to keep the country safe. It's the usual stuff... this morphing process is really a series of hurdles I must jump in order to be acceptable to you....so no matter how successful I meet one hoop, if I miss the next then all is for naught.

    Frankly, I think it would be illogical and unfair to Clinton to make a summation of which party is better able to protect to the country, based upon his pre-9/11 performance. I have no doubt that this works for his admirers...and I'll leave you to it.

    You can pick and choose your economic data, but the economy is robust. Any CNBC analyst will tell you... and trending up. Leading economic indicators continue to talk growth not stagnation. (I will give you the debt call as is a big issue for me too.) But 'feel" safe is just a democratic indicator... feeling anything has nothing to do with truth. Fact is we have not had an attack in the US since 9/11... right? Gas is lower now than same last year, and if you researched the reasons you'd understand the Asian demand is the largest reason. You blame everything on this administration. I shudder to imagine them being curbed any better a democratic administration. Fact is the US economy has a cyclical nature... and within three years it will begin to turn down, and that too will be Bush's fault, according to you. Even in a new administration, democrat or republican.

    With Katrina, and with 911 you can point fingers at either party, but please keep in mind, the guys flying the planes weren't affiliated with either party, and neither is mother nature.

    All of the unemployed spend thier day posting BS on Olbermannwatch.


    Just Kidding.

    Cecelia, don't waste your time.....9/11 happened and it was my contention that both Bush and Clinton failed.....Skeptical still wouldn't give me an inch.

    My view is that the current Democratic Party has consistently over the past six years, thwarted national security by.....

    Fighting the Patriot Act

    Encouraging leaks of national security techniques that keep the country safe

    Criticising said techniques that DO NOT infringe on my Constitutional Rights

    Believing allegations of torture without all the facts being available (flushing of Korans)

    Suggesting isolated ill treatment of prisoners is systemic in the armed forces and Bush's fault

    Wanting to prematurely withdraw from Iraq and give the terrorists a victory that will embolden them to continue their behavior

    Threatening to cut funding to the Iraq conflict if they take control of congress

    These and many other issues make me believe the members of the left (the present Democratic Party) will NOT protect me and my family IN THE FUTURE!!!! The Republicans are the only alternative currently.

    I used to support the Republican Party but I cannot do that any more. I currently support the Democrats as the only alternative for the following reasons:

    "Fighting the Patriot Act" - because its horrible legislation that could only get through congress during a period of crisis.

    "Encouraging leaks of national security techniques" that are a crime

    "Criticising said techniques that DO NOT infringe on my Constitutional Rights" but do infringe on others and might on yours some day.

    "Believing allegations of torture" and trying to block legislation making it legal in violation of 60 year old international agreements.

    "Suggesting isolated ill treatment of prisoners is systemic in the armed forces" because they were approved and promoted by Donald Rumsfeld.

    "Wanting to finally withdraw from Iraq" and give the terrorists less reasons to continue their behavior

    "Threatening to cut funding to the Iraq conflict if they take control of congress"

    These and many other issues make me believe the members of the Right (the present Republican Party) will NOT protect me and my family IN THE FUTURE!!!! The Democrats are the only alternative currently.

    Anon,
    Please show us the statistics on abortion which support your assertion that only Democrats have abortions. We're waiting.

    Posted by: Colbert at September 27, 2006 11:21 PM

    Of congressional districts Nancy Pelosi has the fewest children in it at around 87,000. Thats good. The district with the most children in it is Chris Cannon from Utah Mormon territory represented by a Republican with 270,000 children. Thats pretty close from memory. It was in USA today. About fertilty gap. Average of 7,000 more children in republican districts than democrat. And thats good. From the article:

    "Republican House members overwhelmingly come from districts that have high percentages of married people and lots of children, according to a USA TODAY analysis of 2005 Census Bureau data released last month.

    MARRIAGE GAP: Elections could sway on status

    GOP Congress members represent 39.2 million children younger than 18, about 7 million more than Democrats. Republicans average 7,000 more children per district.

    Many Democrats represent areas that have many single people and relatively few children. Democratic districts that have large numbers of children tend to be predominantly Hispanic or, to a lesser extent, African-American."

    Abortion is "killing" the democrat party. And thats good for USA and bad for innocent souls.
    The proof is in the Demographics.

    Opie's baseball card - if he was a baseball player

    Bio

    Keith - or Opie or Herr Olbermann - is a much traveled journeyman who has brought his sport to a new (low)level. He's the only player in history of baseball that refused to face right hand competetion. A malcontent, with few frends in the clubhouse, Herr Olbermann once called a teammate dumber than a suitcase full of rooks

    Bats: Left
    Throws: Left
    BA against lefties : 100.000 - has never (disagreed) with a lefty
    BA Against righties - unknown, has never faced a righty
    Stats: RBIs (Really Biased Information)- mutiple RBIs every game/show
    HRs (Honest Reporting) -0- in lifetime
    Hits: 1 - subway door
    Position - Outfield always plays extreme left - will never cover any territory in center or right

    Career - 14 contracts in 23 years

    Personal:
    > Family - none
    > Friends - Musty, Fineman, Dean bros: Howard and John, Liar creepy liar O'Donnell
    > Height/Weight: 6'3 1/2, 120 pounds, but can curl up under a desk 2' x 2'
    > Vision: None

    Highlights of career: only person to be finish last in all standings for 23 straight years

    Interests -
    > real journalists - i.e. infatuation, closely follows successful career of Bill O'Reilly
    > Twilight Zone eposides - only monkey in America that can name the titles of all the Twilight Zone episodes.

    Why he got into baseball - you always run to the left
    Considerd NASCAR (See above re left turns) but does not drive (see hits)

    Nicknames: Herr Olbermann, Monkey man, Opie

    Outlook: grim and desperate


    If the Dems win the House in 2006, what is their plan for Iraq?

    Here's the Murtha Plan:

    In an interview with Tim Russert, Murtha said: "We can go to Okinawa. We can redeploy there almost instantly." Mr. Russert, mindful of the fact that Okinawa, Japan, is 4,899 miles from Baghdad, offered Mr. Murtha an escape, in case he had misspoken. "But it would be tough to have a timely response from Okinawa," he said. But Mr. Murtha dug himself in deeper. "When I say a timely response, you know, our fighters can fly from Okinawa very quickly," he said. It would take 10-12 hours - and six refuelings - for F-16s to fly from Kadena AFB on Okinawa to Baghdad (assuming China and India would grant overflight rights, a dubious assumption).

    The rotund Murtha continued: "He's sitting in his air-conditioned office on his big, fat backside saying stay the course. That's not a plan! "We got to change direction, that’s what we have to do. You can’t, you can’t sit there in the air conditioned office. "

    The Murtha Doctrine points to Beirut and Somalia as examples of sound foreign policy, i.e. when the enemy attacks you, you need to “change direction.” Specifically, you need to turn around and run the other way. But this is not “cutting and running.” This is simply not “staying and paying.” And there are many countries we can run to where presumably we can pay a lot less to stay.

    Then there's the Rangel plan:

    “I can’t stop this war,” a frustrated Rangel said in a recent interview, reiterating his vow to retire from Congress if Democrats fall short of a majority in the House. But when pressed on how he could stop the war even if Democrats control the House during the last years of President Bush’s second term, Rangel paused before saying, “You’ve got to be able to pay for the war, don’t you?”

    Which is almost identical to the Woolsey Plan:

    “Personally, I wouldn’t spend another dime [on the war,]” said Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.).

    winterbear,

    You said, "Wanting to finally withdraw from Iraq" and give the terrorists less reasons to continue their behavior

    Read the NIE, it is the opinion of the intelligence community that if the terrorists are defeated in Iraq, it will lessen their growth. Al Queda has stated that Iraq is the battleground currently in their was against the U.S.

    Encouraging leaks of national security techniques" that are a crime - my answer.....

    What judge or jury has determined anyone has commited a crime by monitoring terrorists phone calls or monitoring their financial activity? YOUR OPINION ONLY!

    Criticising said techniques that DO NOT infringe on my Constitutional Rights" but do infringe on others and might on yours some day.....oh, ok, I am sure out of MILLIONS of communications that occur, the NSA will be interested in my conversation with my wife about my son's recent constipation. YOUR FEARFUL PARANOIA DOES NOT SWAY ME TO THINK MY GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO INFRINGE ON MY PRIVACY!

    "Suggesting isolated ill treatment of prisoners is systemic in the armed forces" because they were approved and promoted by Donald Rumsfeld. EVIDENCE PLEASE! The Koran story has NEVER been proven/supported and never retracted. I cancelled my NEWSWEEK subscription over the issue by the way.


    Hmmm,

    I gotta say the righties beat the pants off the left on the last 265 posts. Tracking terrorists phone calls and finances are a good thing, and has most likely prevented terrorist attacks. Not sure why the NY Times are such triators.

    The National Intelligence Estimate _ compiled by leading analysts across 16 U.S. spy agencies _ concluded that Iraq has become a "cause celebre" for jihadists, who are growing in number and geographic reach. If the trend continues, the analysts found, risks to U.S. interests at home and abroad will rise.

    The greatest danger to America is not the U.S. military presence in Iraq, but rather a premature withdrawal of U.S. forces from the war-torn nation.

    Hmmm,

    I gotta say the righties beat the pants off the left on the last 265 posts. Tracking terrorists phone calls and finances are a good thing, and has most likely prevented terrorist attacks. The NY Times are traitors.

    Abortion is "killing" the democrat party. And thats good for USA and bad for innocent souls.
    The proof is in the Demographics.

    Posted by: Anonymous at September 28, 2006 04:17 PM

    I said it before in so many words. What makes you so sure that the children of republican parents are going to groe up embracing the same politics as their parents? Kids rebel. Don't get to comfortable.

    Codas maybe what they really menant is that the democrat party is the party of killing by abortion.
    Cee the greatest threat to America is not from terrorists but from liberals who blame America first for everything and will let this country become defenseless to the terrorists.
    I see that the little "progresives" from the various left wingnut sites have chosen to come here and defend their hero the olbyloon and their socialist agenda.
    Just try to go to one of their wbsites and post as a conservative. At least here anybody can post but try posting on kos or du or thinkprogress or firedoglake as a conservative. Those site are just like olbynuttjobs show. there is no dissent allowed! You either have to be registered to post or get blocked immediately if you have the slightest conservative views. This is the face of the new left. No wavering from the far left socialist view is allowed . The ideology of "tolerance and diversity" allows only the diversity that they agree with and tolerance is only for ideas tolerant of far left views. Hypocrisy is their only ideology and strict adherence to liberal dogma is only allowed. Just like the olberloon show.

    "The National Intelligence Estimate _ compiled by leading analysts across 16 U.S. spy agencies _ concluded that Iraq has become a "cause celebre" for jihadists, who are growing in number and geographic reach. If the trend continues, the analysts found, risks to U.S. interests at home and abroad will rise.

    The greatest danger to America is not the U.S. military presence in Iraq, but rather a premature withdrawal of U.S. forces from the war-torn nation."

    Republican leadership has done SO much good for us. I love how we're giving up even more moral high ground with the torture amendment too.

    Someone said Repubs are kicking lib ass all over this thread. I'm an independent, and this country's been headed downhill since republicans took power.



    "One of the most confounding things about the extreme wing of the Republican party is that it is comprised of a totally adamant sub-faction which wholeheartedly supports the current administration, and will continue to do so -- despite any empirical evidence that demonstrates political or military failures both at home and abroad. But when you look at the situation more carefully, such a confounding and unwavering support actually makes perfect sense.

    These are people who, like the administration, never did care much about the facts -- when compared to their agenda and faith-based goals. The extreme wing of the party, represented best by their leaders now in power, are the epitome of "unfree" thinkers who value, more than anything else, the end goals which they envision. As such, they literally do believe that their goals justify the very means to attain them. Even concerning the most extreme means, such as rendition and torture.

    As a result, you will never see wavering support from the radical wing of the party, let alone be able to involve them in a reasonable discussion -- precisely because they firmly believe that the means justifies the end. And with such "collective individuals", there can rarely be any meaningful discussion. Even if you point out to them that throughout history, like-minded powers that have agreed with their unempirical views have brought misery to the world in countless forms of totalitarianism and fascism."

    riverdog.
    believe me, i do appreciate the fact that I can come to this site and read stuff, disagree with it and then make my opinion known. One of the main things I disagree with is that if someone like myself says something that is contrary to the "right" position, people like you think I have a socialist agenda or I'm from the daily kos or something. I am just a guy who feels republicans in general, not all, are wrong about more than a few things. And I think democrats traditionaly have done a pretty good job protecting my freedoms and rights. Republicans like tax cuts and endless war.

    Riverdog,

    I've been to those sites and I know what you are talking about. Firedoglake and DailyKos, do not allow opposing viewpoints. Sounds kind of like KO.

    Democrats like to put themselves out there as the party of tolerance, but it could not be further than the truth. As soon as you disagree with them, they are frothing at the mouth and calling you names.

    Someone said Repubs are kicking lib ass all over this thread. I'm an independent, and this country's been headed downhill since republicans took power.


    Posted by: Anonymous at September 28, 2006 05:30 PM

    So right you are.

    As soon as you disagree with them, they are frothing at the mouth and calling you names.


    Posted by: G Monster at September 28, 2006 06:09 PM

    And I suppose you think there has been no name calling and such here?

    Hmmm,

    "I gotta say ...Tracking terrorists phone calls and finances are a good thing, and has most likely prevented terrorist attacks. The NY Times are traitors."

    Hmmm I gotta say that sounds verbatim exactly how Rush and Shawn H talk. If you ever read the NYT you might learn a thing or two beyond truck suspension and duck blinds full of beer cans.

    Bush, like his predecessors has always had the ability to wire tap and trace finances without breaking the law as he has done to force one more crack in our protected privacies (something all true red blooded right wingers have always fiercely guarded against). But because you are just a sheepeople of Rove talking points you know nothing of the details of what Bush et al are up to.

    Free porn on the internet is now occupying all the free time of my beloved NRA types that I always looked up to as protectors of the constitution. Now with their Johnson and their guard down, the neo-cons are setting the stage for corporate tentacles to delve deeper into our liberties until they cut them off so they can make more billionaires to club with.

    Traitors like are a shameful lot that one day will be defined as the Benedict Arnolds of the 21st century!

    I see it this way.....

    One of the most confounding things about the extreme wing of the Democratic party is that it is comprised of a totally adamant sub-faction which blindly opposes the current administration, and will continue to do so -- despite any empirical evidence that demonstrates political or military achievements both at home and abroad. But when you look at the situation more carefully, such a blind hatred actually makes perfect sense.

    These are people who always believe they are "the smartest people in the room" -- their opinion is the only one supported by the most logical interpretation of the available data. The extreme wing of the party, represented best by their leaders who are trying to gain power, are the epitome of "elitist" thinkers who value, more than anything else, unlimited power to impose on society their system of "utopia." As such, they literally do believe that their goal for the perfect/egalitarian society justifies the very means to attain it. Even concerning the most extreme means, such as slander, demagoguery and use of propaganda.

    As a result, you will never see compromise or bipartisianship from the radical wing of the party, let alone be able to involve them in a reasonable discussion --precisely because they firmly believe that any opinion other than their own is not of value. And with such close-minded elitists, there can rarely be any meaningful discussion. Even if you point out to them that throughout history, like-minded powers that have agreed with their views have brought misery to the world in countless forms of totalitarianism and fascism."

    cee. Do you think for yourself at all? I don't blindly oppose this administration, I do it with both eyes wide open. Closed mind? Are you kidding me? Any question of any policy or position of the right is looked at as agreeing and aiding the enemy. Please!








     
     
    "You can pick and choose your
    economic data, but the economy is robust. Any CNBC analyst will tell you... and
    trending up. Leading economic indicators continue to talk growth not stagnation.
    (I will give you the debt call as is a big issue for me too.) But 'feel" safe is
    just a democratic indicator... feeling anything has nothing to do with truth.
    Fact is we have not had an attack in the US since 9/11... right? Gas is lower
    now than same last year, and if you researched the reasons you'd understand the
    Asian demand is the largest reason. You blame everything on this administration.
    I shudder to imagine them being curbed any better a democratic administration.
    Fact is the US economy has a cyclical nature... and within three years it will
    begin to turn down, and that too will be Bush's fault, according to you. Even in
    a new administration, democrat or republican."
     
    Today's paper gives the stats on the uninsured
    health in this nation. Most come from one or more parents working 40 perweek.
    More children than ever before without health care. The cost of living has
    soared while actual purchasing power has dropped. As per your garble about
    gas prices dropping - not hard to do after explotively raising them after
    hurricane Katrina threatened but did not damage (the justification for raising
    the price) refineries. Gas prices held high until 8 weeks before the Nov
    elections then dropping to lure niave suckers into thanking repubs for gas less
    than over priced. Only a sheepeople would suck up all this Rush Limbaugh
    garbage. Your perspective is a joke from where I reside. Stop sucking up Hannity
    crap and think for yourself -
     



    I see it this way:

    "the smartest people in the room" Exactly what you don't get when a republican like Bush walks in a room.

    The world laughs at the clown you have put in office. Sheepeople of TV evangelists graduate to sheepeople of the corporate power structure.

    "such as slander, demagoguery and use of propaganda. " We call this swiftboating or Rove tactics like push polls in S. Carolina about McCain having a "mulatto bastard child when ran against Bush in the pres repub primary.

    The sleaze and corrupt nature of the republican party today is a direct result of the influence of it's "base" the bible belt "Christians". The culture of the klan evolved into effect politicking.

    Your choice to quote the Limbaugh and O'really talking points make you a sheep with no will or dedication to the nation our fore fathers fought and died for. The republican base today is a national embarrassment.

    November can't come fast enough!

    I was listening to Pink Floyds "Animals" cd the other day. Pigs on the wing. Dogs. Sheep. Sounds like some people we know.

    'What judge or jury has determined anyone has commited a crime by monitoring terrorists phone calls or monitoring their financial activity? YOUR OPINION ONLY!"

    Do you pay attention at all? This is not about tapping the phones. That in itself is not a crime.... if you have a warrent from the FISA court to do it. But if you tap phones without a warrent it is a crime. This law was put into place when Nixon tried to use wire taps for political gain. The courts have ruled it a crime and now George wants to change the law retroactively. This is about side stepping oversight so that the Bush administration can listen to anyone they want without having to justify it.


    "Criticizing said techniques that DO NOT infringe on my Constitutional Rights" but do infringe on others and might on yours some day.....oh, ok, I am sure out of MILLIONS of communications that occur, the NSA will be interested in my conversation with my wife about my son's recent constipation. YOUR FEARFUL PARANOIA DOES NOT SWAY ME TO THINK MY GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO INFRINGE ON MY PRIVACY!"

    I wasnt refering to nsa wire tapping. I was referring to the ability for the executive branch to imprison indefinitely people who it wants to without seeing the evidence against them or without access to due process. I was also referring to officially authorizing torture.

    "Suggesting isolated ill treatment of prisoners is systemic in the armed forces" because they were approved and promoted by Donald Rumsfeld. EVIDENCE PLEASE! The Koran story has NEVER been proven/supported and never retracted. I cancelled my NEWSWEEK subscription over the issue by the way.

    Who mentioned the Koran story? read up about any of the abuses at Abu Gareb or the secret cia torture sites. The Red Cross and other humanitarian groups have published reams of data on how this administration, primarily Rumsfeld, have given the go ahead for abuse and ill treatment of prisoners in US custody.

    Codas thanks for your reasonable response! Nice ghange from some of the more rabid respones of which I am guily of more that few when it comes to responding to the left wingers.
    I used to be a registered democrat myself. When the reasonable democratic party started to get taken over by the far left wing and socialists I considered myself and independant. The independent parties unfortunately they don't have the power or numbers to get independants elected.
    If I had my "druthers" I would rather have a party like the Constitution Party in elected office.
    I like tax cuts myself. I believe that people should be able to keep more of the money they earn that having it confiscated by the government. The republican party is not perfect but at least they suport some of the rights I hold dear to me. They are for the second ammendment and property rights, and have not taken up the socialist ideology that the democrats have embraced.
    the democrats have become the party of the far left wing fringe. They have become the party of radical feminists, the homosexual agenda, the ACLU, and as I have said before socialists. the republicans do a much better job , albeit not a perfect one, in protecting my rights.
    I find it very amusing when libs say the "country is heading downhill" in regard to the republicans. The democrats for 40 years controlled congress and they and their followers just cannot comprehend that they are no longer the party in power.The reason they lost was because the majority of Americans voted them out because they thought the country was headed in the wrong direction under the democrats.
    witness Mr Lipbalm here with some liberal bigotry :
    "Free porn on the internet is now occupying all the free time of my beloved NRA types that I always looked up to as protectors of the constitution. Now with their Johnson and their guard down, the neo-cons are setting the stage for corporate tentacles to delve deeper into our liberties until they cut them off so they can make more billionaires to club with."
    Mr Lipbalm bashes Rush but sounds himslf just like something from an air america wet dream. Why is it liberals ALWAYS try to make their points using references to sexual organs? Maybe if they for once stopped thinking with their genitalia and started using their brains they might get somehere. Mr Lipbalm just sounds upset and sexually frustrated at the democrats impotentcy in getting their agenda thru and getting elected. Until the dems get their heads out of their pants they will continue losing.
    Mr Lipbalm: it's the hyocrisy stupid!

    I still don't get the "socialist agenda" thing. For example, I work for a non-profit organization in a MISA program. Thats residential housing for mental heath substance abusers. Yesm They are collecting checks from the government and they abusr this money sometimes to just buy drugs. But where would they be if they didn't have a program to go to. Perhaps crawling through your window at night, that's where. Face it. We have to have social programs. We have to deal with the fringe elements of our society. Not everyone lives in a great and well protected neughborhood. We need cops, not soldiers in endless wars. The repubublicans spend just as much "more right now" on their little projects. I would prefer that we have some humanity. Not just tax cuts for people who are loaded already.

    Im a bad typer by the way.

    Codas,

    I might have called someone a name once on here, but I don't remember what it was. Wuussy man or something. But no way am I frothing at the mouth or would I even attempt to stiffle your freedom of speech. In fact, I enjoy the debate.

    :)

    "The reason they lost was because the majority of Americans voted them out because they thought the country was headed in the wrong direction under the democrats."

    Fact is the change over came when the Republican operatives met with The Ayatollah Khomeini's people and made a behind the scenes agreement to exchange weapons for hostages if they just hold the hostages until after Carter lost. And they did just that. Americans were made to believe that Carter was not strong enough simply because like a good leader he refused to give rewards especially weapons to hostage takers.

    The islamists never stopped taking hostages ever since.

    You once again you have a totally Rush ,totally Hannity, verbatim garble coming out of you figurative mouth. A sheep with no brain that can discern propaganda and outright lies from reality. You spew total garbage and sacrifice the integrity of our nation in front of the entire world. America has never been hated more than it is now and that is simply because the culture of klan has reared it's ugly head once again. That all ends come November!

    Mr" real American" republicans were dumb enought o get elected to the White House, and both houses of Congress and become a solid majority.
    the funnist part of your comedy routine was associating yourself with the founding fathers. They would have hung you and your little progressive friends for what you are traitors. it sunds to me you just can't stand the laughter at your party for becoming the party of wacked out ideology. And I just cannot wait to see your reaction when in November Republicans pick up MORE seats and more power. we will see who will be laughing then . and you are no real American pal only somebody who wants to twist America to fit your ultra liberal manifesto.

    Lets talk about wag the dog:

    http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/08/21/wag.the.dog/

    -----------------------------------------------

    "Look at the movie 'Wag the Dog.' I think this has all the elements of that movie," Rep. Jim Gibbons said. "Our reaction to the embassy bombings should be based on sound credible evidence, not a knee-jerk reaction to try to direct public attention away from his personal problems."

    Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA):

    “There’s an obvious issue which will be raised internationally about the response here as to whether there is any diversionary motive involved. … I have deliberated consciously any references to Ms. Monica Lewinsky, but when you ask the question in very blunt terms, the president’s current problems have to be on the minds of many people.” [CNN, 8/20/98]

    Former Sen. John Ashcroft (R-MO):

    “‘We support the president out of a sense of duty whenever he deploys military forces, but we’re not sure - were these forces sent at this time because he needed to divert our attention from his personal problems?‘ Ashcroft said during the taping of a TV program in Manchester, N.H.” [St. Louis Post-Dispatch, 8/21/98]

    Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX):

    “I’m very supportive of the strike that has happened, but I will tell you that the timing is very questionable. This was the day that Monica Lewinsky has gone back to the grand jury, evidently enraged. Certainly that information will be overshadowed.” [Dallas Morning News, 8/21/98]

    Former Sen. Dan Coats (R-IN):

    “Coats (R-IN), a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a statement, ‘While there is clearly much more we need to learn about this attack and why it was ordered today, given the president’s personal difficulties this week, it is legitimate to question the timing of this action.‘” [CNN, 8/20/98]

    Former Rep. Dave Weldon (R-FL):

    “Although most in Congress rallied around Clinton on Thursday, two Republican U.S. senators and one Central Florida congressman broke with the tradition of standing behind a president during a foreign crisis.Sen. Daniel Coats, R-Ind., Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., and U.S. Rep. Dave Weldon, R-Palm Bay, publicly questioned Clinton’s motives in launching the attacks so soon after his public admission of a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky. … ‘The president has, indeed, broken the trust of the American people, and these are legitimate questions that must be answered.’” [Orlando Sentinel, 8/21/98]

    Former Rep. Bob Barr (R-GA):

    “All I’m saying is if factors other than good intelligence, military necessity, being prepared for the consequences entered into it, then it is wrong, and it appears that one of those factors that may have entered into it is to take something that could have been done a week ago and do it today in an effort to divert some attention.” [Fox News, 8/20/98]

    -----------------------------------------------


    Yet, I know you would still vote for all these people. And don't forget before 98:

    -----------------------------------------------

    http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism/

    Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, emerged from the meeting and said, "These are very controversial provisions that the White House wants. Some they're not going to get."

    Hatch called Clinton's proposed study of taggants -- chemical markers in explosives that could help track terrorists -- "a phony issue."

    "If they want to, they can study the thing" already, Hatch asserted. He also said he had some problems with the president's proposals to expand wiretapping.

    Oh this is too good, the fecal Jesus posted above, just says "Fund more neat art like this!!Vote Democrat" to the majority of Americans..:-)

    LOL... riverdog...

    sunds to me like yur into wishful thinking.

    The Democrats were ambushed by Gengrich wing of the republican party who used religion, prejudice, self righteousness and fear to get into power. These same people were then co opted by the neocons who hijacked the party into supporting global hegemony, extreme cronyism and a policy of preemptive war.

    What if you brought back a founding father... say Jefferson and tried to explain current events to him. You tell him we are in the 3rd year of a war in Iraq. He would ask who is the leader of this Iraq and how many troops do they have. He would be dumbfounded that we are still "at war" with a country with a leader thats been on trial for a year and which has had no army in the field for 3 years.

    He would be dumbfounded. I know I am....

    The American people have finally broken the spell of the neocons and are getting ready to shake them off. I am quite hopeful that a new generation of solid, moral, competent republicans can replace the neocons. If not, then I will have to support the Democrats because they offer the only ray of hope.

    Skeptical,

    If Clinton would have kept his pants up, Monica Lewinsky wouldn't have been an issue. Can we agree on this?

    Can we also agree that the Monica thing probably wouldn't have became public at the time, except for the fact there was a large list of women coming after Clinton for alleged sexual harrasment. Juanita Broadrick, Paula Jones, to name a few.

    You conviently forget about Klinton's AG Janet "the butcher of waco" Reno and the FBI director Louis Freeh's efforts to have access to all internet encryption so they could monitor everything. Of couse you left wingers had no problem with that!
    the whole wiretapping thing is a sham. The congress is only upset because they were not consulted on it. Even liberal senators and representatives said that it would be ok if congress allows it. I really want to know what the problem is with wiretapping terrorists in international communications. What are the people monitoring terrorists supposed to do just ignore a potentially dnagerous plor being communicated while they get some judge to ok it?. When a person comes into or leaves this country they are subject to search by US customs as are all packages and parcels. What's the problem with wiretapping terrorists?
    The Klinton Administration killed many more of it's own people at places like Waco and Ruby ridge than they killed terrorists in foreign lands. The only problem I have with wiretapping is that if democrats should God forbid ever get into power they will use it more on their own people- the American people than they will foreign terrorists.

    Waste of time posting all these republican (most representing bible belters) comments doing all they can to stop President Clinton from taking action against the religious extremists - islamists -

    The "I listen to Rush and Hannity crowd only knows that Bill Clinton ran this country and act as if their were no Republican congressmen able to veto the Clintons decisions. They pretend the repubs weren't all in a huff over Bill getting some head while the world of Islam was coming down on this nation. This is the thing that tells it all and they are selectively forgetful of what the mainly southern congressman stirred up to tie Clinton down with White Water ($70 million investigation for nothing!) and blow jobs.

    These talking point fools are all hillbillies with little to no education in their family of the klan background. A pathetic bunch of confederate flag waving "I am a Christian" fools!

    Keep typing Sorrycan'thearyou,Let it all out baby... Keep showing us what your leftist dingbat cause is really all about. C'mon you can do much better this..Back in a couple of hours to check your handiwork.

    "I see it this way.....One of the most confounding things about the extreme wing ..."

    um, nice try. but the original post was a cohesive postulation that the radical right is unempirical and justifies its means with ends. would you care to address those assertions, instead of merely trying to be cute?

    Waste of time posting all these republican (most representing bible belters) comments doing all they can to stop President Clinton from taking action against the religious extremists - islamists -

    Response below:

    "Keep typing Sorrycan'thearyou,Let it all out baby... Keep showing us what your leftist dingbat cause is really all about. C'mon you can do much better this..Back in a couple of hours to check your handiwork."

    I rest my case!

    G Monster, so what that he didn't keep his pants up? He was married to Hillary for christ sake, have you seen that woman?

    There are much more important issues to deal with, why you constantly have to bring up the sex affair I can not understand. He still did his job as we now fully know, it did not get in the way of fighting terror.

    Yet, people on your side of the political isle did all they could to ridicule him for it. Yes, it was good that some republicans came out in defense of his decisions back in the day there was outstanding criticism by right wingers in the media, in congress, and groups such as free republic. These are the same people that are now trying to suggest Clinton didn't do enough.

    Then there is a plan Clinton did for Bush before he left office on how to retaliate against the Taliban. Bush completely ignored it and his administration gave 43 million dollars to the taliban for them to say that drugs are bad. This made our country the largest state sponsor of the taliban ever.

    And a few years down the road after this guy gets us into a war that 16 (or was it 18) CIA agencies agree is a huge factor as to why we are losing this war.

    But you are still, after all those fatal fuck-ups that have killed and probably will kill more people, you will stand tall, look me straight in the eye, and tell me Bush is protecting this country and you thank god those liberals that did so much pre-911 aren't in charge.

    This is an insult to our democracy.

    In an effort to raise the discourse and debate to a higher level.

    Islamists hate the west. The Koran instructs them to kill infidels wherever they are found. Infidels are non-muslim. They have been slowly restoring the Caliphate to its old borders and beyond. This is done through immigration and through the sword. Islamists hate the west because of our morals and values or lack there of. Countries that adhere to Islam treat women as property, cut the hands off of thieves, stone adultresses and hang homosexuals. They have strong beliefs that they are willing to die for. It is believed by some that if the spread of Islam is not stopped that a darkness will envelop the world as they will come to rule it. The current estimate is 1.2 billion muslims. Those who rule Islamic countries rape the wealth and keep it for themselves and select few. So there citizens are mostly dirt poor. The leaders of these countries set up an education and media system to indoctrinate all citizens to think that there poor sad pathetic lives are ruined by the Jews and Westerners. The citizens are taught to hate and despise all things from the West and Jews. This shifts the focus from there meager existence and gut wrenching poverty to a focused hate of Westerners and Jews. This is done easily enough with distorted text books and government controlled media. That and the Koran's teachings is all it takes. So there citizens blame the west and jews for all there problems like they are taught and indoctrinated to. This coupled with the belief of many in the west that Jews and Westerners( Americans and Europeans) are also the cause of the gut wrenching poverty. Nothing could in fact be further from the truth. As we have spent enough capital in these areas to make the citizens wealthy many times over if shared by those at the top. These countries have benefited from Western medicines and technologies for many years. Many have traveled west and attended universities and lived amongst us. However that has opened to few eyes. So we are engaged in a life or death struggle with true believers who will kill and die for there cause. This situation is further complicated by a western media that fails to report on the scope and breadth of the world wide problem of Islam. With the duplicity of western media to few in the west realize the true danger that is faced. If you think George Bush is a threat to liberty and our constitution then you should be 1,000 times more fearful of Islam taking further growth measures. Life under Sharia Law is what they practice. It is ruthless and violent. It asks no permission for wire taps, it seeks no warrants. They kill or enslave all who live against the teachings of the Koran. Convert or die is there motto. Women are slaves to be traded as one would trade baseball cards. They practice no niceties. Example have you ever heard of an Islamic Hospital? You know like St. Judes, St. Marys. My area has Baptist, Catholic, and Jewish Hospitals but no Islamic ones. This is no coincidence. Shias and Sunnis are different sects of Islam. They are killing each other in Iraq. They have warred against each other for centuries. This is no coincidence as Islam is much like a death cult. If Islam ruled the world right now would there be peace? NO. Because they would always have to have an enemy to shift focus from the gut wrenching poverty practicing Islam brings with it. They would be stoning homosexuals on Mondays, Wensdays and Fridays. And stoning impure women on Teusday, Thursday, and Saturday. With a day of rest. No one in the West wants this to happen. Not atheists,agnostics, Christians or Wiccans. Only practitioners of Islam want this. AND NOT ALL OF THEM. If it was all it would have a simple solution. War. Relentless killing and bloodletting until a winner arose. But not all muslims deserve this fate. After 9/11 in my estimate 70% of Americans would have supported the use of our nuclear arsenal. A knee jerk reaction? Sure. But George Bush did not take that approach because he is not a cold blooded killer and is surrounded by competent people who advise him. These things are true if you like there politics or not. He and his team took a different approach than "kill'em all". Right or wrong they invaded 2 countries and exposed the weakness of Islam to fight us on a conventional scale. He in essence bloodied there nose to slow down and give pause to a thought process that sent 20 hijackers into our country to kill 3,000 of our fellow citizens. Was it the right course of action? Only time will tell. But if the attacks escalate into nuclear terror strikes then we would retaliate in kind. If invading Iraq and Afghanistan avoids this then many,many more lives will be spared on both sides than have been lost. These invasions have freed people from oppression(good). And they have taken lives(bad). War is easy to critisize. A war never goes "good" or "easy" because the loss of life is always painful and costly. George Bush is not the be all end all. Of that I have little doubt. But he is not wrong about everything he does either. If we fail to change the minds, or instill fear in those who have chosen to declare war on the west then more blood will be spilled. Alot more than has been spilled thus far. People can dis-agree on the methods and means but of the conflict have no doubt.It exists. It is not over yet. It will be a long struggle. It will be difficult. But it will be over sooner if we in the west,especially those with the power of the pen(and microphone like KO), agree that doing nothing is an un-acceptable option. Invading Iraq did not create terrorists. Nor poverty. Terrorists are created by indoctrination by states and leaders that loot there countries resources and do not share with there citizens. That coupled with a religion that is little more than a death cult. And that brought us to were we are now. You CANNOT negotiate with people who see death as a promotion. They either quit of there own free will or must be fought to the death. There is not a third choice. If isolation seems like an option it is not. Not in Kashmir. Not in Rwanda. Not in Indonesia. Not in Somalia, and other areas that Islam is currently conquering. President Bush didnt bring down the towers. President Bush would have stopped it if he'd have known in advance. Clinton didnt allow 9/11 to happen. He just chose a different method of fighting a terror war nobody in the West started. This country is bigger than 8 years of Clinton. It is bigger than 8 years of Bush. Ours is a country made great by its citizens. We enjoy wealth and prosperity the likes that have never been seen. We enjoy freedom that cannot be taken away,not by any act. Because the people enforcing it would be our sons and daughters, nieces and nephews. So fear not for your freedoms. We have crossed the social Rubicon in America and few would stand idly by whilst others rights were infringed and justice denied. That is the strength and power of our system. It is controlled by WE THE PEOPLE. We currently enjoy the luxury of debate. As opposed to being busy trying to keep from starving to death from day to day. The only thing strong enough to topple this country is ourselves. Societies have risen and fell throughout history and others take their place. It would be naive to think this could not happen to our great country. To avoid this fate we must speak as one on policy. Debate it vote for or against. But once decisions are made support your country and work within to change the things you find objectionable. This mud flinging that is done daily in our media against our elected leaders must stop. And I don't mean stop asking tough questions. I do mean quit destroying the foundations that we built this society on. And that is faith in our system. No secret is long held anymore. This is the ultimate check and balance. If someone tried to do much out of line or cruel or unusual someone would not sit idly by. Because they are our sons and daughters that hold these positions. Let us not continue to die a death by a thousand cuts from within. Stand strong and together. We can do great things as we already have. We have elections. After those we should close the divides on security issues. Its to important not to.

    Oh it gets so much better:

    Post edited Olbermann style:

    Waste of time posting all these republican (most representing bible belters) comments doing all they can to stop President Clinton from taking action against the religious extremists - islamists -

    My Response below:

    "Keep typing Sorrycan'thearyou,Let it all out baby... Keep showing us what your leftist dingbat cause is really all about. C'mon you can do much better this..Back in a couple of hours to check your handiwork."

    gasp, response:

    I rest my case!
    ################################################
    Gads!! You certainly showed me!! Showed me what marvelous cut & paste artists you all are..I think you left out the rest of Your troll's/your Buddy's "enlightened" commentary.. The chuckles keep coming..

    Anonymous, care to split that into paragraphs? You seem to be missing the point, nobody here is talking about Bush being a danger to our democracy. What we are talking about is if he should be the one protecting us. This is the guy that before 9/11 said we shouldn't strike back at the Taliban, that it would be a "bad idea". Then this is the same guy that 4 months before 9/11 gave Taliban over 43 million dollars.

    And you honestly believe this guy should still be the leader of the free world? He needs to be held accountable for his fatal mistakes. But this is the administration that doesn't believe in accountability. Brownie was doing a heck of a job. George Tenant, supposedly responsible for bad intelligence, got a medal of freedom. Donald Rumsfeld doesn't handle the war in Iraq properly and has been wrong about everything he has done but is still on the payroll responsible for our defense.

    Benson,
    The country isn't safer now than eight years ago. The economy was better eights years ago (and when Clinton left office) than it is today. The unemployment rate is higher, real wages for most Americans are lower, poverty rate is higher, more people are uninsured, energy costs are up, most Americans are worse off now than they were under Clinton.

    Janet Hawkins,
    Iraq had nothing to do with the terrorists who attacked us. It only became a part of the war on terror because Bush invaded and made it so.

    Maybe you should have read history more carefully. You don't remember dissension during the Vietnam War? I guess you turned on, tuned in, dropped out. You don't remember dissension during the Korean War or WWII? Please don't read anything about the 1790's, whatever you do. Your brainwashing will be completely undone and your head will explode. It'll take decades of Rush's talking points to get you back to your normal non-thinking self.

    Ok stone throwing:

    "Attack on U.S.S. Cole, October 12, 2000: In Aden, Yemen, a small dingy carrying explosives rammed the destroyer U.S.S. Cole, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39 others. Supporters of Usama Bin Laden were suspected." Real response NONE.

    "U.S. Embassy Bombings in East Africa, August 7, 1998: A bomb exploded at the rear entrance of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, killing 12 U.S. citizens, 32 Foreign Service Nationals (FSNs), and 247 Kenyan citizens. Approximately 5,000 Kenyans, 6 U.S. citizens, and 13 FSNs were injured. The U.S. Embassy building sustained extensive structural damage. Almost simultaneously, a bomb detonated outside the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 7 FSNs and 3 Tanzanian citizens, and injuring 1 U.S. citizen and 76 Tanzanians. The explosion caused major structural damage to the U.S. Embassy facility. The U.S. Government held Usama Bin Laden responsible." Real response NONE.


    "Somali Hostage-takings, April 15, 1998: Somali militiamen abducted nine Red Cross and Red Crescent workers at an airstrip north of Mogadishu. The hostages included a U.S. citizen, a German, a Belgian, a French, a Norwegian, two Swiss, and one Somali. The gunmen were members of a sub-clan loyal to Ali Mahdi Mohammed, who controlled the northern section of the capital" NONE

    Tourist Killings in Egypt, November 17, 1997: Al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya (IG) gunmen shot and killed 58 tourists and four Egyptians and wounded 26 others at the Hatshepsut Temple in the Valley of the Kings near Luxor. Thirty-four Swiss, eight Japanese, five Germans, four Britons, one French, one Colombian, a dual Bulgarian/British citizen, and four unidentified persons were among the dead. Twelve Swiss, two Japanese, two Germans, one French, and nine Egyptians were among the wounded.

    Murder of U.S. Businessmen in Pakistan, November 12, 1997: Two unidentified gunmen shot to death four U.S. auditors from Union Texas Petroleum Corporation and their Pakistani driver after they drove away from the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi. The Islami Inqilabi Council, or Islamic Revolutionary Council, claimed responsibility in a call to the U.S. Consulate in Karachi. In a letter to Pakistani newspapers, the Aimal Khufia Action Committee also claimed responsibility.

    Empire State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997: A Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland, and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine."

    Paris Subway Explosion, December 3, 1996: A bomb exploded aboard a Paris subway train as it arrived at the Port Royal station, killing two French nationals, a Moroccan, and a Canadian, and injuring 86 persons. Among those injured were one U.S. citizen and a Canadian. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but Algerian extremists are suspected." Algerians are muslim.

    Bombing of Archbishop of Oran, August 1, 1996: A bomb exploded at the home of the French Archbishop of Oran, killing him and his chauffeur. The attack occurred after the Archbishop's meeting with the French Foreign Minister. The Algerian Armed Islamic Group (GIA) is suspected.

    Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996: A fuel truck carrying a bomb exploded outside the US military's Khobar Towers housing facility in Dhahran, killing 19 U.S. military personnel and wounding 515 persons, including 240 U.S. personnel. Several groups claimed responsibility for the attack.

    Saudi Military Installation Attack, November 13, 1995: The Islamic Movement of Change planted a bomb in a Riyadh military compound that killed one U.S. citizen, several foreign national employees of the U.S. government, and over 40 others.

    Attack on U.S. Diplomats in Pakistan, March 8, 1995: Two unidentified gunmen killed two U.S. diplomats and wounded a third in Karachi, Pakistan.

    Air France Hijacking, December 24, 1994: Members of the Armed Islamic Group seized an Air France Flight to Algeria. The four terrorists were killed during a rescue effort.

    Attempted Assassination of President Bush by Iraqi Agents, April 14, 1993: The Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former U.S. President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait. In retaliation, the U.S. launched a cruise missile attack 2 months later on the Iraqi capital Baghdad.

    World Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993: The World Trade Center in New York City was badly damaged when a car bomb planted by Islamic terrorists exploded in an underground garage. The bomb left 6 people dead and 1,000 injured. The men carrying out the attack were followers of Umar Abd al-Rahman, an Egyptian cleric who preached in the New York City area.

    Bush is spot on. Fight them. Not fighting them wasn't working out to well.

    No i dont care to split that into paragraphs. But thanks for asking. The elections say who the commander and chief are. Not your whims. Roosevelt took ten kinds of hell during WWII from the NYT and other patriots. HEHE.

    Fatal mistake was doing nothing while they kicked are ass's. Bush is just kicking back. And he has my support.

    How do you handle a war properly? Be perfect? Not possible. Like I said its easy to be a critic. You prove that.

    WHats your plan??

    "Benson,
    The country isn't safer now than eight years ago. The economy was better eights years ago (and when Clinton left office) than it is today. The unemployment rate is higher, real wages for most Americans are lower, poverty rate is higher, more people are uninsured, energy costs are up, most Americans are worse off now than they were under Clinton.

    Posted by: Colbert at September 28, 2006 10:44 PM"

    American poverty is people who dont work getting free housing and free groceries. I see them all the time in my line of work. Seems the poverty stricken can all afford cell phones, tobacco, lottery, tattoos, Nikes, beer, casino's,food and drugs. Come to think of it what more is there? Hey they are doing OK.


    Real Life expectancy's up. Real Interest rates are low.Real Un-employments low.Real Wages are high for the motivated. Real inflation is low.
    Energy costs go up because the people who work for the utilities want and get yearly pay raises.
    Delivery of quality medical services are easy to obtain at the ER. Would you socialize our Health Care? Probably. Wage controls for Drs and such. The problem with that is once a Dr cant get rich, whats his incentive to work hard? To be good? Once the bad Drs get paid the same as the Best Drs the system suffers. Ask a Canadian whose been sick with a major illness they will tell you their system sucks. No incentives. Salary caps hurt productivity!!

    Anon,
    Where does the USA Today article mention abortion? Can you read? You said Democrats have all the abortions, not Republicans have more kids. You people are too stupid to figure out contraception. That's all your article shows.

    Colbert

    I noticed my name and just had to come back to see what you said.

    NO, I did not turn on, tune in or drop out in the 70's. I was married, having children and very happy in spite of the insanity of the 60's @ the 70's.

    Perhaps you have confused "Mash" with reality.

    WWII - from what I have read, dissenters lived in their holes with the other vermin.

    As far as the 1790's (Revolutionary War) I agree with you. There was a lot of dissension. That's why the great statesman of the 20th century, Winston Churchill, introduced himself during WWII to the U.S. Congress as..........I.m sure you know the rest.

    Now let me think:
    Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.
    U.S. declares war on Japan.
    Germany declares war on U.S.
    Who the hell knows what Il Duce did.
    Roosevelt and Churchill decide the European Theater is the NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

    Whenever WWII came up in family discussions (we are a contentious bunch) my Mom who died late last year at the age of a 100 always said how those poor boys in the Pacific suffered because of the emphasis on Europe.

    Do you think you might wrap your brain around the concept of priorities. I am perfectly happy to pursue these animals in the most effective way. If you have a better plan, lay it out for all to see. Don't forget to include any downsides like Iraq replacing Afghanistan replacing Somalia.

    Colbert, please try to stay away from the personal attacks. I may be wrong but I have thought out my positions.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    PS I read Winston Churchill's six volume History of WWII. My husband had the hard cover set when we got married. If you haven't read it yet I would recommend to you at least the first volume - The Gathering Storm.

    Just to show you how contorted this crap gets, are you now equating the 1998 air strikes on Iraq that Clinton ordered on what he called Iraq's "nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs".....hmmmmmm..... as being part and parcel with Wallace's question to Clinton about his focus on Bin Laden and Al Qaeda? Well, THAT's an interesting formulation for you.... Should we put you firmly in the Bin Laden, AQ and WMD in Iraq camp, now?...

    Good to know these senators should have had ....hindsight....enough to have refrained from questioning the timing of launching missiles into Iraq...because Clinton was going after terrorists...

    Good to know too that any criticism of the timing of Clinton's "trying...tries... I tried"...stuff is tantamount to NOT trying.... to get Bin Laden ...in Iraq?... Or to getting terrorists... in Iraq?....

    You put up a lot of hoops, boy...but you can sure foolishly contradict your own argument and lose sight of what was being challenged... (Wallace's question about AQ and terrorists) in your insistence on doctrinal purity and your cheap defense of anyone with (D) after their name...


    Anon,
    Real un-employments? As opposed to fake un-employments?
    Real life expectancy? As opposed to fake life expectancy? Real inflation? As opposed to fake inflation? You must be an economist.
    Life expectancy wouldn't change much in six years.
    The unemployment rate is higher now than when Bush took office. Interest rates have been on the rise. Real wages (at least you got one term right) are lower for most Americans. Energy costs are up because the energy companies are setting records for profits. Can you read?
    You need to stop listening to Rush. Canad'a healthcare system is blowing our's away. Maybe you can explain why their life expectancy and healthy life expectancy are higher than our's while their infant mortality rate, healthcare costs per capita and as a % of GDP are lower than our's.

    Sorry for this long post, but Colbert's keeps repeating the same tired mantra that the U.S. econimy is "worse off" than it was eight years ago and when Clinton left office. Rebutting these falsehoods requires delving into a bit of detail to show how misleading his conclusions are, but it is our job here to expose Olby style distortions:

    In a 2004 campaign speech, John Kerry declared, "[President Bush] inherited the strongest economy in the world — and brought it to its knees." There is no evidence to support this claim. In fact, the evidence now suggests that President Bush inherited a recession.

    A key issue during the 2004 election season — one which some observers believe will determine the outcome of the presidential election — was whether the recession began in the last quarter of 2000 or during the first months of the Bush presidency. Granted, even if the truth is that the recession began in the days after George W. Bush's inauguration, most reasonable people would conclude that a president cannot on a dime turn a $10 trillion economy one way or the other. However, data and supporting analyses from economists indicate that the recession began well before Bush took office, making political criticism of the president on the jobs issue even more inappropriate.

    According the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER), the unofficial arbiter of business cycles, the recession began in March 2001 and ended in November 2001. NBER analyzes four data series from the U.S. Department of Commerce, the Federal Reserve Board, and other government sources. While previously NBER indicated the recession started in March 2001 (it has not formally revised that date), official revisions of the data indicate that the recession started earlier than that.

    For example, under revised calculations, real disposable income peaked in October 2000, rather than steadily rising in 2000 and early 2001 as indicated in the original data. Industrial production/manufacturing and trade sales both peaked in June of 2000, instead of September and August, respectively. Non-farm payroll employment peaked in February 2001, not March 2001. And monthly gross domestic product, which the NBER recently announced will be included in dating recessions, also peaked in 2000.

    According to the Council of Economic Advisers, the median date of these five data series is October 2000 — at least three months before George W. Bush took office. We also know that the stock market started to decline in March of 2000, business investment began to fall in the third quarter of 2000, and initial jobless claims began to rise at the end of 2000 — more evidence that the U.S. economy in late 2000 was in fact "on the front end of a recession," as Vice President-elect Dick Cheney observed on Meet the Press on December 3, 2000.

    Even professor Joseph Stiglitz, the chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Clinton, admits that "the economy was slipping into recession even before Bush took office, and the corporate scandals that are rocking America began much earlier."

    To be sure, the Federal Reserve's twelve-month tightening cycle that began in mid-1999 contributed to the economic slowdown. It is also true that cyclical forces in the economy led to the type of business retrenchment that we have seen in the past and that will likely always be seen to some extent in a market economy. But a significant contributing factor in the slowdown was the policy direction of the Clinton administration, which included an aggressive use of antitrust regulation in the high-tech marketplace, a lack of a national energy policy which resulted in energy-price spikes, and a high and rising federal tax burden.

    A key area in which presidents can have an impact on the economy is tax policy. President Clinton raised tax rates right after taking office in 1993, and presided over a massive "stealth tax hike" which ultimately hurt the economy. Because income taxes were not indexed, the increase in real incomes during the 1990s pushed people into higher and higher tax brackets. According to Brian Wesbury of GKST Economics in Chicago, from 1993 to 2000, the number of people who paid taxes in one of the top three income-tax brackets almost doubled from 3.4 million to 6.4 million filers. Further, total income taxes paid by these filers increased from $84.6 billion in 1993 to $245.8 billion, an increase of 190.5 percent. President Clinton's policies increased the federal tax burden as a share of our national economy from 17.5 percent in 1992 to 20.9 percent in 2000.

    President Bush, however, took the opposite approach of his predecessor. Upon taking office, George W. Bush took immediate action to lift the tax burden and strengthen the economy. The first Bush tax cut put $40 billion immediately back into the economy in mid-2001 and helped cushion the economic fallout from the 9/11 terrorist attacks. In March 2002, the president signed a second tax cut that allowed partial expensing, which began the recovery in business-investment spending. In May 2003, Bush signed the third tax cut of his administration, boosting after-tax economic incentives by slashing tax rates on income, capital gains, and dividends.

    Largely as a result of the president's tax-rate cuts, the recovery moved into higher gear. The economy grew 6.1 percent in the second half of 2003, and 4.3 percent over the four quarters of 2003 — well above potential GDP growth. Business fixed investment in the fourth quarter of 2003 was revised upward to a 9.6 percent annual rate from 6.9 percent. By 2004, the stock market returned to the level it was at when President Bush took office, which means that all the losses that occurred since March 2000 happened under President Clinton. In January, the economy generated 112,000 new jobs — the largest monthly increase since December 2000 — and 366,000 jobs have been added over the last 5 months. The unemployment rate has declined from 6.3 percent in June 2003 to 5.6 percent in January of 2004, the fastest seven-month decline in nearly a decade.

    And its not just supply-siders lauding the Bush tax cuts. Goldman Sachs economist Edward McKelvey, an early skeptic of Bush tax policy, concludes, "they definitely had a stronger impact on spending than we anticipated." The Wachovia Economics Group reports that the "economic data provide support for the case that the midyear tax cut did take the economy up a notch. There is no need to resort to esoteric data or the torture of innocent economic statistics. The data are clear in their verdict" [emphasis added]. And International Monetary Fund economist Magda Kandil says the president's plan "is directly targeting consumer spending and investment incentives ... The end of double taxation of dividends and increasing incentives for small businesses should help sustain momentum in favor of job creation and long-term growth."


    You have to check out the site linked to John @ 10.26 @ the Countdown for KO on Sept 28'

    I haven't laughed this hard in hears. I now understand how some people can confuse pain and joy

    Give it a try.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Colbert

    I see Cecelia took care of you shortly after I did. Must be nice being that popular with the ladies. Gee, I wish I was that lucky with the guys.

    All kidding aside, I'm looking forward to your response to my response t.................... Oh hell, you know what I mean.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet,

    Actually, I was addressing Skepticism's silliness...but if Colbert's shoe fits.... :D

    Colbert it sounds like you listen to Rush alot. Canadians health care blows. Thats not open for interpetation. Life expectancy is up? If you say so. Probably because of their sin tax's. That and socialism extends the misery of mediocrity. OUCH!!!!

    "Colbert it sounds like you listen to Rush alot. Canadians health care blows. Thats not open for interpetation."

    I've lived most of my life in the states and a few years in Canada. I much preferred my experience in the Canadian system. Everyone acts like HC in the U.S. is so great. Not on the whole, IMO. The doctors have no time or inclination to actually communicate with you and this creates mistakes, there are constant "billing errors" between the doctors and insurance companies (which are really just disputes with the patient in the middle,) and the waits for non-emergency services are just as long--they are just dictated by the doctors office and by the AMA (the OPEC of medicine) constricting the supply of doctors rather than the gov.

    If you've been in both systems, you can comment, otherwise you are just blowing smoke. And obviously, which system is better would vary procedure by procedure. If I was critically ill, I would probably prefer the top docs in the states. But for general care and maintenance, Canada wins hands down for me.

    And from my experience, France is better than either.

    "The end of double taxation of dividends and increasing incentives for small businesses should help sustain momentum in favor of job creation and long-term growth."

    No problem with any of that Hank. But do you have any explaination for why poverty has risen and the middle class shrunk-- with more people going down than up, with median income vastly underperforming the economy as a whole? By the bottom line numbers this is a good economy, but the benefits are being enjoyed almost exclusively by the tip of the upper class, and this is unprecedented for an economic expansion.

    Dear Hank,

    Just read your post just above. Thank you for laying out the factual history of our economy for the last 6 years. I know in principle what you are saying but you can articulate like a professional.

    The one thing I wish you had addressed is the fact that actual revenues to the Feds is way up. The Dems just cant seem to hold 2 thoughts in their minds at the same time.

    Also, President Bush I left President Clinton an economy in full recovery. Of course the MSM did not publicize any of that.

    I'll be happy to attend any future seminars you give. Its a pleasure to read a well written piece like yours.

    Thanks,

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    To anonymous @8.39 PM

    What an outstanding precis of the events of the last 15 years and the conclusions you draw from them.

    You and Hank both get gold stars. And to think I was ready to bug out of this site because I was tired of having to wade thru pages and pages of grubby little boys hurling insults back and forth about there own and everyone elses p***ks.

    I am going to save both of these posts.

    Thanks to both you and Hank for taking the time to do such outstanding jobs.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Just read your post just above. Thank you for laying out the factual history of our economy for the last 6 years. I know in principle what you are saying but you can articulate like a professional."

    Yes, he is saying "elect more republicans."

    "Also, President Bush I left President Clinton an economy in full recovery. Of course the MSM did not publicize any of that."

    And of course, that is wrong. But who cares. Elect more Republicans!

    Boy oh Boy, I leave for 12 hours and the liberals go off frothing at the mouth.....

    My post at 9/28-6:22PM simply shows how easy it would be to simply replace some items your superficial and hate-filled argument and it still be just as valid and defensable.

    I wasn't trying to be cute. Elitists who have as a foundation contempt for an opposing argument ALWAYS resort to ad homonym attacks. Discourse, as you can see above since my post, is impossible for the same exact reason liberals claim. Using pejoratives such as "Bible Belters," "Sheepeople," "culture of the klan," "hillbillies," illustrates my point.

    I am amazed that the "party of tolerance" has no room for the opinion that President Bush is a good man, and perhaps doing his best fot the good of the country. I am very willing, (and have) examined the evidence liberals present to argue the opposite. I and have not, to this date been convinced George Bush wants to:

    be a dictator...
    suspend my rights as a citizen of the U.S....
    suspend discourse in this country...
    rule the world...
    torture ANYBODY...
    not cure diseases like Parkinson's, Diabetes and spinal cord injuries....

    the list could go on and on.

    Now, if your argument is, "cee is a brainwashed righty who spews talking points from Rush and Hannity," then I have nothing more to say to you.

    But if you say, "Ok, your wrong and I'm ok with that, see you sometime," you are a NORMAL and kind human being that is willing to participate in a modern day democracy. Stop being blind ideolougues and accept that people will have a different opinion that you!

    See you at the ballot box.


    Better last sentence:

    "Stop being blind ideologues and accept that people will have differing opinions from what you hold."

    +=

    Hank,
    I'm glad you pointed out the NBER concludes the recession began in March 2001 and ended in November 2001. Bush's Council of Economic Advisors can claim anything they want. They have a partisan reason to claim the recession was inherited. But focusing on when the recession began misses the point of Bush's poor performance.
    Most economists agree the recession was relatively mild. And even if you admit the recession began under Bush you could still argue it's part of the business cycle and we were due for one.
    The problem is with the recovery. Jobs were not created at the rate they had been created in previous recoveries. It took until the start of his second term/end of first term before he had created a single net job. That's the worst job performance since Hoover. Real wages for most Americans have been stagnant or falling. Bankruptcies and home foreclosures are at record highs. Savings rates are at record lows. The federal debt is at a record high due to massive deficits. States are facing financial crises due to underfunded mandates from the federal government (Medicaid and No Child Left Behind to name two). This has led to decreased services and increased taxes on the state and local level. Your statistic about 20% of GDP going to federal taxes versus 17% now only included federal income taxes.
    That leaves out state income taxes, excise taxes, school taxes, property taxes, etc. which have all been increasing.
    You mentioned energy costs going up under Clinton. Energy costs were low under Clinton compared to their current levels. You mentioned his tax rate increase of 1993. Under your keen economic analysis it only took eight short years for the tax increases to kick in and then eight short months for them to wear off? I guess we'll see the effects of Bush's first round of tax cuts between March 2009 and November 2009. The economy boomed for eight years after his tax increase then had a mild eight-month recession and it hurt the economy? Taxes needed to be increased to lower the massive deficits Reagan and Bush had run up. Go ask your high-school economics teacher how deficits affect the economy. Bush 41 and Reagan both raised taxes, by the way. A major reason many Americans are being hit harder by taxes is President Nixon's alternative minimum tax not being indexed to inflation since 1969.
    You can mention GDP etc. all you want but Clinton's GDP growth was higher, stock market performance was better and profits were higher. Under Bush these numbers haven't translated into good financial situations for most Americans. Under Clinton they did.
    Are you copying and pasting from an article? You mention 2004 in one sentence. The next sentence says in January 112,000 jobs were created. I assume you still mean 2004. But then the sentence finishes that 366,000 jobs have been created in the past five months. It's as if you're writing this in June 2004. Your unemployment rate decline in the next sentence is also referencing January 2004. Why would anyone look at date for a seven-month period which happened over two years ago? You must be copying and pasting from an article. Also, it says [emphasis added] where there is no emphasis added. Nice try though.
    Anyway, 150,000 jobs is needed to replace jobs so 112,000 is subpar job growth. The five-month period averages out to 73,200 jobs per month. That is pitiful. President Clinton averaged 240,000 jobs created per month for his entire presidency.
    The economy under Bush 41 was faltering when Clinton took over. It was called a recession at the time. Anyone who is older than 25 remembers the economy wasn't good in late 1992.

    Well Hank I tore your cut-and-paste-job apart. Try again.

    Janet,
    Thank you so much for this: "Germany declares war on U.S." Most Bush apologizers don't know that or pretend it never happened. I've heard from many pro-Iraq War people "but FDR attacked Germany and they never attacked us." But they did declare war on us. Iraq didn't attack us or declare war on us.

    Somalia was a peace mission and dealth with a warlord. Bin Laden went from Sudan to Afghanistan. Somalia was never an Afghanistan.

    If we pulled out of Iraq, left troops stationed in Kuwait and other neighboring countries, then sent extra troops into Afghanistan, we'd be fine. Any terrorists who wanted to follow us would follow us into Afghanistan where we could kill all the terrorists in one place. The Iraqis would continue their civil war but eventually come to some compromise. We use the billions we'd be saving from Iraq to beef up our security at airports, seaports, railways, subways, nuclear facilities, chemical plants, biological labs, borders, etc. We could also invest in vaccines/research to produce vaccines for biological weapons and improved communications/training/equipment for our first responders.

    I'm sorry for the personal attacks but I get tired of hearing Republican talking points which are untrue.

    This Janet person doesn't have to be who "she" says she is. Personally I think it is the creator of this page using this name. This "grammie" crap means what? I have been posting all over this page for about a 5 days and never found a reason to mention that I am a grandparent simply because I have no need to prep or dress my message with the characteristics of an aged person. If my age or family position became pertinent I might then interject it into the discussion. I think the only reason a person would color themselves with "grammie" would be to solicit a more genteel response from others who disagree with his/her garble Rove talking points. Frankly I think the way Colbert plays along with this shows some gullibility.

    In Colbert response to Hank,

    "Hank,
    I'm glad you pointed out the NBER..."

    Here you have a clear concise rebutal.

    "Janet" writes response to posts with:"Dear Hank,

    Just read your post just above. Thank you for laying out the factual history of our economy for the last 6 years. I know in principle what you are saying but you can articulate like a professional. "

    Then when Colbert blows Hank's nonsense to piecess how does "Janet" respond?

    The degree of denial here screams of the shallow nature of the discussion "Janet" tags along with. Let's watch closely how "Janet" get's involved further in the discussion after making the response quotes above.

    Well hello to you 'Care for Some Tea Too'
    You have my real name, both legal and to friends and family. One of my great nephews, who is a little over three calls me Aunt Grammie Janet. His parents and aunts and uncles call me Aunt Janet. His second cousins call me Grammie. That boy is going to go far. He already knows how to cover all the bases.
    I've already mentioned I live in central Florida. Moved here after my dear husband died with my then 99 year old mother She died late last year) from New Orleans about 6 months before Katrina. Bought the house across the street from my son and his family. All the kids in the neighborhood call me grammie and ther parents call me Miss Janet. Of course my son still calls me Mom. Sometimes I still see the boy in him when it turns to Ohhhhhhh Moommm.

    See below what Cup of Teas posted.
    This Janet person doesn't have to be who "she" says she is. Personally I think it is the creator of this page using this name. This "grammie" crap means what? I have been posting all over this page for about a 5 days and never found a reason to mention that I am a grandparent simply because I have no need to prep or dress my message with the characteristics of an aged person. If my age or family position became pertinent I might then interject it into the discussion. I think the only reason a person would color themselves with "grammie" would be to solicit a more genteel response from others who disagree with his/her garble Rove talking points. Frankly I think the way Colbert plays along with this shows some gullibility.

    Sir, I don't know what I wrote that you so out of sorts. I reveal that info because it IS who I am. For all I know you could be the next or the current.............fill in the blanks.
    Although I have spent a large part of my life being a stay at home mom and caring for my elderly parents That does not make me brain dead.
    I think you,anonymous and others like you have some serious problems. In your mind a woman can only be brainwashed OR a Karl OoOoOoOo Rove plant if she disputes the wisdom you shower on us poor barefoot pregnant cows.
    I defy you and your ilk to bare yourself as I have. It wouldn't take that much to locate me and verify the info I've given.
    Come on guys! Prove to me you can't wear short pants because you're afraid your b..ls might show. Without proof, I don't think you have any.
    I'm so mad I'm not going to preview or proofread to catch glaring errors. I'm going to post it and have a martini on the rocks. Care to join me CC.

    Colbert-mann you could not cut your way out of a paper bag. Everytime, everypost you get cut to shreds and then you proudly and loudly proclaim your win?? on what planet do you live on? Just because you say something does not mean its so. You are the true liberal crazy living in denial. When somebody loses as often and as bad as you do constantly here we call that person a LOSER or an Olbermann of course.
    AND YOU GO GRAMMIE!

    Riverdog dose some - we have eachother - crap and thinks that all it takes is some - you're out numbered - and reality becomes his to define. Fact is Colbert is making clear consise commentary and Riverdog is doing what he can to feel he is not alone in his world - us against them, a common theme of the "Christian" world.

    You blow dog!

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Six-term Republican Rep. Mark Foley of Florida resigned from the U.S. Congress on Friday following reports he sent sexually inappropriate e-mails to underage male congressional interns.

    Foley, chairman of the House caucus on missing and exploited children, said he would resign after ABC News reported he sent messages to current and former congressional pages with references to sexual organs and acts.
    -----------------------------------------------
    Standard fair for your white southern republican chiristian politician. They live secret repressed lives and all they have to do is say "I love Jesus" and all the hillbillies vote for him.

    "Then. . . Colbert blows Hank's nonsense to pieces"

    No, not even close. Colbert in typical self aggrandizing fashion made this claim about his post, but Colbert failed to rebut my fundamental premise-- that Colbert's previous claim that people were "worse off" under the Clinton economy than the George W. Bush economy is undercut because the economic indicators several months prior to GWB taking office were already heading south. I have amassed a great deal of data in my original post to butress the fact that the poor performance of the economy in Bush's first term were directly attributable to the condition of the economy turned over to GWB by Clinton.

    The only defense Colbert has for the well established, evidence based proposition that Clinton handed GWB an eonomy in recession is that
    the council of Economic Advisors can "claim anything they want" or, in the alternative, the recession that Clinton handed GWB really wasn't that bad.

    Rather than listening to more Robert Reich/Robert Rubin style propaganda where you are essentially regurgitating the same talking points time and time and time again, why don't you offer up your views on Olbermann?

    Since this is OlbermannWatch do you have an opinion about Olbermann? Do you think he practices high jounalistic standards? Do you have a problem with his practice of presnting that information that is exclusively favorable to the libs and excising all that would cast the libs in an unfavorable light?

    Also, should the Dems win control of the House, do you think Nancy Pelosi would make a good Speaker of the House (unless of courses Murtha steals it from her)? If so, tell us why. Do you think that it would be good for this country to have Charlie Rangel as chairman of the Ways and Means committee where he has as much as said he will try to de-fund the war we are fighting against terrorists in Iraq?

    hank,
    "The only defense Colbert has for the well established, evidence based proposition that Clinton handed GWB an eonomy in recession is that
    the council of Economic Advisors can "claim anything they want" or, in the alternative, the recession that Clinton handed GWB really wasn't that bad." No, Hank. Have your mommy teach you to read. I said "I'm glad you pointed out the NBER concludes the recession began in March 2001 and ended in November 2001." The NBER determines when recessions begin and end and it has determined the recession began in March 2001 while Bush was in office.

    If you had such a great argument about the economy why are you so desperate to change the subject?
    I showed how asinine your claim that the poor economy under Bush was all Clinton's fault. You tried to claim the economy is great under Bush while at the same time claiming the poor economy was Clinton's fault. Was it great or was it poor? Does Bush get credit or Clinton get blame? Make up your mind.
    I proved the statistics in the article you copied and pasted showed a weak economy under Bush. You copied and pasted an article and have no idea what it means so you decided to stop arguing because you can't. I argued with the article you copied and all you can do is keep saying the article is right.

    riverdog,
    Don't be pissed at me because another poster proved you never served in the military. It's not my fault you were caught lying about it. By the way, we call people who pretended to serve in war gutless cowards and scumbags. It's obvious to everyone you're a homosexual so stop your gay rage and come out of the closet. No heterosexual is obsessed with gay sex as much as you are. It's a miracle if you post twice in a row without bringing it up. We could be discussing mortgage rates and you'd bring up gay sex. You're obsessed with having sex with other men and you overcompensate. We get it but your pathetic cries for help are getting old. Seek professional help for your self-hatred. The only person on this site that I think is probably gay is you. The rest of us seem to be married.

    Colbert, Your friends are woried that you are being duped by a Karl OoOoOoOoOo Rove plant. Nice friends you have there. Perhaps they've been reading too much Ian Fleming.
    At any rate could you expound on ie name them and give me an idea of how big and what kind of force they would accept in those surrounding countries we could redeploy to while the Iraqis settle their 'civil' war. Kuwait is not strategically placed. I think I heard that we have eliminated our presence in Saudi Arabia and they plan to build a fence along their border with Iraq. Also, does that redeployment and an increased presence in Afghanistan perhaps reduce the billions we would have left over for increased protections at home.
    Now President Colbert , you have just put your plan in action. What is your policy regarding Israel. If they are one of your redeployment countries I suspect the peaceful muslims around them will be a tad upset. Or, does President Colbert plan on throwing them to the wolves. If you don't, that will continue to be a rallying point for them. Was and still is a biggie for UBL.
    Also what makes you think that the remaining terrorists will follow us from Iraq to Afghanistan so we can kill them. I don't think they are that stupid. What is your contingency plan if they take over the Iraqi government and gain a bigger and better host nation than Afganistan to reach out across the world.
    What is President Colbert's timeline to coordinate withdrawals that give us the money for all the iniatives at home and implementing those initiatives. And, President Colbert , sir what do you estimate the success rate of these initiatives. Will a 9/11 every 2, 3, 4, 5 years be acceptable. And how will we handle the impacts to the economy if we do suffer huge attacks again. It took your predecessor years to overcome the damage to the economy by 9/11.
    After all the vaccines are developed do you plan on having mandatory vaccinations or only after an attack to protect those not immediately sickened or dead.
    Will this heightened homeland defense include NSA warrantless wire taps on calls made between the US and known or suspected terrorists. How will your regime (sorry, got carried away - we're not talking about Bush) government handle illegal enemy combatants.
    And, president Colbert, finally do you agree with the concept that putting all our eggs in the homeland defense basket still means your government needs to be right 100% of the time and the terrorists can be wrong 99% of the time and still deal us a devastating blow.
    Colbert, I don't think the world is that easy. Every action or non action has almost limitless permutations down the road.
    You may rest assured I am who I present myself as. I added the AKA Grammie when I started complaining about some of the guys having page after page of locker room insults of the worst sort. Thougt maybe they would restrain themselves if they pictured ther writings being spoken in front of ther mothers, grandmothers etc
    Goodnight to all

    Sorry
    Forgot to sign my post. the last post was from
    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    I'm sorry. I have no idea why its underlined

    Sorry
    Forgot to sign my post. the last post was from
    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    I'm sorry. I have no idea why its underlined

    Colbert i think your AIDS has infected your little liberal brain.

    "Colbert, Your friends are worried that you are being duped by a Karl OoOoOoOoOo Rove plant. Nice friends you have there. Perhaps they've been reading too much Ian Fleming"
    -------------------------------------------------
    Now you're sounding like someone's "grammie". "Kuwait is not strategically placed."

    Uhh what kind of claim is that? Clear example of just making crap up. All the "President Colbert" is really stupid when at the same time you are acting as though you are the one to judge who are what makes a good president. Your choice in Bush automatically makes you null and void in this subject!

    Once again Riverdog can't get off the Gay related subjects in his refering to aids effecting Colbert's brain. It seems he needs to center his thinking around homosexuality alot don't you think. You know how those republican men are - all in the closet -

    Like congressman Foley from Florida - the're all the same!

    Now now Colbert don't be too hard on Riverdog. They learn it from their fathers at a young age. Either that or the man their mom told them to call Uncle Jim.

    Here comes da judge
    Kuwait is a little country (about the size of New Jersey I think) perched on the Persian Gulf bordered by Saudi Arabia and Iraq. I could be wrong, but I don't think Kuwait is a must have strategic country. It is so physically small and open (no mountain ranges or major rivers) and doesn't control any major or minor cross roads to other regions. I don't think it would be an easily defensible position and any force that was there would have the devil to pay to defend it. You know I do think I heard that in Grammie school. You smoked me out. Wow you are smart. It is a jumping off point. assuming you could hold it, only to Iraq, the country Colbert's strategy wants to leave to its own devices.
    Colbert proposed in a response to me what he thought our country should be doing, if only we had a new smarter administration.
    So I played devil's advocate with him. Colbert postulated a strategy that he thought would cure all the ills of our country brought upon us by President Bush.
    I used a rhetorical device in part of my response to highlight what could be some of the the questions that could be raised before his strategy was embraced. Now you come along and accuse me of making up crap and setting myself as the sole judge of what makes a good president. And your piece de resistance: I support President Bush and that makes anything I have to say null and void.
    If you have persuasive answers to my questions PLEASE state them. Don't resort to ad hominem attacks. I pointed out what I consider the drawbacks. Refute them well and I will consider your point of view.
    As an aside, Poland is a strategic country now and for hundreds if not thousands of years. Look at a map of the middle east. Iraq is the strategic country in the middle east. Needless to say, people living in globally strategic areas have suffered thru the ages.
    No one is going to wave a magic wand and make these Islmofascists go away. Not President Bush and certainly not most of the wannabees lurking in the shadows. And please don't give me the speil defining fascism. It is to my mind the best term we have right now. When someone comes up with a better term I'll embrace it.
    Janet Hawkins AKA Grammie

    Constrast the smarts and aplomb of Janet, Melissa, Cee, and yours truly...with the Olbyloon women who come here cussing and ranting and insulting people via some half-baked version of Haiku.

    We rock, ladies!

    Dear Cecelia,
    You are so right on. But you forgot the male counterparts. A pretty sad lot. They seem to have problems staying on point and stringing more then 2 or 3 cogent thoughts in a row. Maybe their brains keep relocating in a part of their anatomy we don't have.
    Also, I have to say Hank is a heavy lifter. His brain obviously has a permanent home and is a top notch organ. As a corrollary, I bet the rest of his anatomy is pretty impressive too. Oops, BAD GRAMMIE. Children, cover your ears.
    Cee, in regards to your post @ 6.22 PM on 09/28 I read or heard an argument by ,I think, Thomas Sowell. The thrust of the argument was that the far left ideologues are the only faith based element in our society. He cited Norm Chomsky. Obviously a brilliant mind. He continually makes statements that are later proved to be wrong or can be logically refuted. Yet he continues on, no different than the holiest nun or monk in the world. Why? Because his opinions are really faith based. And there is no set of facts or argument that can refute faith. To the faithful that is. What is, is. Of course with Clinton that brings up a whole nother ball of wax
    And Cecelia, you mentioned the term useful idiots. For the uninformed of this blog (not you) this is a term lifted directly from declassified Soviet documents after Ronaldus Magnificus caused the collapse of the Evil Empire. Uncle Joe (Josef Stalin) used it to refer to the fellow travellors in the west. Now, can we all say:
    Whitaker Chambers
    Alger Hiss
    Joe Mc Carthy
    Greenpeace
    PETA
    NOW
    And the list goes on and on.
    As a side note, declassified KGB documents backed up Whitaker Chambers point by point. Uh, (those NOT poor innocents) the Rosenbergs too.
    And to winterbear. You sound like a pretty nice guy. Go back and study history deeper than the NYT headlines. You might be surprised. Look into Ronald Reagan's conversion based on his first hand experience with the communists and the left when he was president of the Screenactors Guild. Then move on to the book Reagan in his Own Hands (Words?). If you have always accepted the'fact' that he was, like George Bush, an idiot, you might be surprised. This seems to be a common thread in the left from Eisenhower on.
    Cecelia, you are right on. WE ROCK. Now, as they used to say in the old Thin Man movies, it must be 5 o'clock somewhere in the world so bring us two double martinis.
    Had fun this morning
    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet, you are such a hoot!

    Colbert,

    By deliberately misreading the analyis I presented to you regarding the economy, you have attributed to me ceratin conclusions that I never made (this is a favorite trick of your hero Olbermann).

    You are free to scream to the rooftops that there was no recession in progress when Clinton handed the reigns over to Bush in 2001. No serious person who understands economic issues believes that is true.

    As with most Bush haters like you, it is necessary to repeat something over and over again because your hatred prevents you from admitting what is obvious-- no matter what date the NBER may have set as the onset of the recession, the plethora of data I supplied you overwhelming supports the case that the recession began several months earlier--under Clinton's watch.
    Read my post again---

    1)real disposable income peaked in October 2000; 2)industrial production/manufacturing peaked in June of 2000;
    3) Trade sales peaked in June of 2000;
    4)non-farm payroll employment peaked in February 2001;
    5)monthly gross domestic product peaked in 2000.

    The Council of Economic Advisers found that the median date of these five data series was October 2000 — at least three months before George W. Bush took office.

    We also know that the stock market started to decline in March of 2000, business investment began to fall in the third quarter of 2000, and initial jobless claims began to rise at the end of 2000 — more evidence that the U.S. economy in late 2000 was in fact "on the front end of a recession," as Vice President-elect Dick Cheney observed on Meet the Press on December 3, 2000.

    Even professor Joseph Stiglitz, the chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Clinton, admits that "the economy was slipping into recession even before Bush took office, and the corporate scandals that are rocking America began much earlier."

    What rebuttal do you have for all this? Only that the NBER has slapped a March 2001 date on the recession or that the recession that Clinton handed GWB wasn't that bad. What I have given you here Colbert are solid evidence based numbers to make the case that Clinton handed GWB an economy in recession. I understand that you do not like to deal with this reality, but this is the reality. Here is some more reality for you. Not only did Clinton had Bush GWB an economy in recession, he inherited, contrary to the conventional wisdom you have fallen victim to, an economy that had emerged from recession in March, 1991-- seven months before he even announced his candidacy for the presidency!

    I wasn't changing the subject Colbert-- I was simply trying to draw you out a bit on the subject of Olbermann as well as answer your previous post about the Clinton economy.

    BTW-- To Janet: Thanks for your kind words. I likewise enjoy reading your refreshing common sense approach to the issues discussed here.


    hank,
    You give bogus arguments copied and pasted from Bush's partisan advisors and act like you proved something. Rummy said Iraq is going great. Case closed. Let's go home. What? People are still dying there at high rates? Well Bush's advisors didn't mention that so it must not be true.
    If the NBER just "slaps" dates on recessions why are they the recognized authority on dating recessions? If they're clueless about economics, have your high school economics teacher give you a recommendation and apply for a job.

    The NBER doesn't take only the five factors you mention into consideration. It doesn't weight those five factors equally. Broad-based measures are weighted more. The stock market doesn't matter much to dating a recession. Monthly GDP is normally used more to determine which month within a quarter a recession began. The quarterly GDP shows the recession began in Q1 of 2001. There are exceptions which are not applicable in this case, none of which you would understand. Your "revised dates" are according to a favorable estimation made by Bush's advisors. The NBER stands by their date five and a half years later. The data supports them.
    Now onto you being wrong on your dates. The monthly GDP dropping for one month doesn't indicate a recession. If you looked at the series you'd notice many monthly drops without any reason for claiming a recession. Real GDP rose through Q4 2004. Payroll employment peaks in February 2001. Personal income minus transfers peaks in March 2001. The two most important factors are employment and income. While the manufacturing sector may have been in decline earlier, the entire economy was still expanding. Thus, no recession. Jobless claims are are unreliable and not used. Mentioning the stock market to claim a recession shows you are lost trying to argue economics.

    I noticed you complained about me repeating the facts but you copied and pasted the same article again. Find a new article to copy and paste. I destroyed that one.

    "BTW-- To Janet: Thanks for your kind words. I likewise enjoy reading your refreshing common sense approach to the issues discussed here. "
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As long as we back each other we can use this to create an effect that we are not stirred by clear argument loaded with facts and logic. As our cultural ancestors did with slavery we will pretend that bad is good, up is down and rich is poor until we actually believe it ourselves.

    This is how a people could simultaneously call themselves good children of god while at the same time selling off the children of slaves as though they were cattle.

    This is our legacy. Let it live on as we fight one more between our natural instincts to be good people and our social needs to feel something other than the constant embarrassment of being on the side of evil.

    The legacy of the children of the culture of the klan.

    Sorta makes Rumsfeld's statement about thinking that some of his opponents are "morally confused", look like a compliment...

    You don't agree with this bozo and you're an apologist for slavery...

    One thing's for sure.... "your refreshing common sense approach to the issues discussed here" will never describe this hyperbolic sap.

    I like how you make statements that are meant to be undeterminable as to what you think. In effect jumble.

    The jumble is what happens between your ears.

    Colbert,

    "The NBER doesn't take only the five factors you mention into consideration"

    Neither did the analysis I offered above. The conclusion that Clinton handed GWB an economy in recession isn't just based on the five factors that were (according to you) "equally weighted" by the the Council of Economic Advisers

    Other factors that hurt the economy late in Clinton's second term were falling business investment in 3Q of 2000 and agressive use of antitrust legislation and tax policy.

    You say that the dates given by the Council of Economic Advisers under Bush are wrong and you cite your different dates for the time that payroll income and personal income peaked. You say that the numbers given by GWB's Council of Economic Advisors shouldn't be trusted because they are "partisans". But you don't cite the authority for your different dates (for the peaking of personal income and payroll employment) and why you think they are more trustworthy. You have given me no reason to believe that the numbers and dates supporting the conclusion that the economy was going in the tank in late 2000 aren't reliable evidence based factors to draw such a conclusion.

    Further, I'm sure that when Joseph Stiglitz, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under Clinton stated "the economy was slipping into recession even before Bush took office, and the corporate scandals that are rocking America began much earlier", he was simply misquoted or he had been bought off by the evil Karl Rove, against whom indictments will soon be handed down for masterminding the conspiracy to reveal the super secret undercover agent Valerie Plame.

    As you are undoubtedtly aware Colbert, economics is an inexact science. Two people using the same numbers will often disagree about the impact or significance of those numbers. I could spend a lot of time here arguing with you here that Clinton's economic "policies" actually had very little to do with the good performance of the economy if the 1990's. But again, this subject is so fraught with subjective interpretations of the same numbers that it is a useless argument.


    BTW-- Who is the wack job on this site who interprets my speaking approvingly of Janet's posts as a sign of "the culture of the klan"? It is fine if you have a substantive criticism of what I write here-- I am glad to respond. If you want to explore the "culture of the Klan" a bit more, why don't you ask Sen. Robert Byrd, DEMOCRAT from West Virginia.

    "If you want to explore the "culture of the Klan" a bit more, why don't you ask Sen. Robert Byrd, DEMOCRAT from West Virginia."

    They can't. They're too busy exploring Culture of the Cheap Shot.

    Let me keep it real people. The Bushies and their Project for the New American Century are in their own little world. They just want to keep scaring us. This Terror campaign is so old, I am not scared of Osama anymore...I am scared of Cheney and his "Iraq for sale" sign in the middle east posted so they can keep making more money. They don't care about our democracy here, they wan't it everywhere else, but not here. Does that make sense? I smell impeachment for the Bushies...life does NOT let you get away with this long enough...I can't wait until EVERYONE finds out how shady these people are...then we can say "I told you so!" KO is on to something and he can tell you "I told you so" when the time comes...KARMA

    Culture of the Klan - Hey Doofus! My inbred family never did give up slavery. We all keep a few in the back yard. But thats a good thing because when they're not working Pastor Hippocrite Pedofile Tonguespeaker sorry its his name - he spells it his way - preaches to them trying to save that 3/5 so called soul they have.
    Man you have to quit hating your cultural identity and embrace with the rest of Bushies? Shrubbies?
    Oh! Sorry.Where was I? My mother and father being also my nbrother and sister and first cousins once removed causes my mind to slip a bit.Anyway, If beating uppity slaves or pedophia or incest isn't your bag, come join us anyway.
    We also offer the right to kill those nasty arabs, all legal of course. My younger brother/son/grandson -all rolled in one. Hit a trifecta on that one. Anyway, he tells me the younger and more innocent and all the more fun it is. Didn't much care for Abu Ghrab, though. Much too sissy and tame.
    Well gotta run. Time to beat the slaves and turn the attack dogs loose on those dirty rotten peaceful, caring educated, truthful, tolerant atheists Dems that live next dog.
    Come home Doofus or whatever your name is. I'm sure you will fit right in.
    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Culture of the Klan - Hey Doofus!
    -------------------------------------

    Spoken like a true hillbilly. How's ole Mark Foley doing these days? What's that you say? The Republican political operatives were still funding Mr. Foley right up to his resignation? They did this knowing he one: Was told to stop with the graphic emails. And two: Kept sending them and they were getting more graphic? Yep that sounds a lot like southern culture of the Klan. Like the greasy television evangelists. All slime all the time!

    "If you want to explore the "culture of the Klan" a bit more, why don't you ask Sen. Robert Byrd, DEMOCRAT from West Virginia."

    They can't. They're too busy exploring Culture of the Cheap Shot.
    ----------------------------------------------
    I love how they keep dodging all the overt aspects of klan kulture in the republican Khristina "base".

    This Sen. Byrd stuff, does it come with money from Tom DeLay's crime machine? How about spreading ignorance in the form of fake KKKhristianity? Sen Byrd going around talking all this Jesus crap from one side of his mouth while cutting funding for health care for the poor and middle class while simultaneously giving tax breaks to the richest one percent of Americans? Come on now tell me all about how Byrd is living in denial. What's that, he talks openly about his past, so you're telling me he one that knows the klan when he sees it and this is why he works within the political party that pisses on the kulture of the Klan. Repentance is something the segregationists despise more than anything. Ever wonder why they hate Clinton so much you can figure it the same way.

    The Kulture of the Klan is all about religion-political double speak developed over hundreds of years of bible in one hand chains of slaves in the other. You evolve out such of culture either profoundly disgusted with your cultural ancestors two faced morality or you don't. Low life's like you fought tooth and nail to keep segregation and when you lost that turned to TV evangelists to guide you into the hands of lowest political practitioners like Rove and Cheney. Always the losers always seeking to compensate by fighting for things to mask the shame of an evil culture.

    Be sure to come back for more November 9th! Yall can tell us how it feels always being on the lossing end of life.

    "The Kulture of the Klan is all about religion-political double speak developed over hundreds of years of bible in one hand chains of slaves in the other."

    Actually, Kulture of the Klan is all about some troll on a blog board who doesn't know what party the segregationists were from....doesn't know about the fervert religious nature of the Abolitionists....doesn't know that even Canada recently cut spending on its out-of-control public healthcare system, and nonsensically wants to reference some assinine Biblical basis for targeted rather than across the board tax cuts.

    In other words, it's about a doofus.

    hank,
    You have yet to explain how Clinton's tax raises of 1993 only hurt the economy in late 2000. Why did the tax raises take nearly eight years to take effect?

    If Rumsfeld tells us everything is perfect in Iraq would you believe it? If he said the NIE is completely wrong would you believe it? Then why should we believe Bush's economic advisors over recognized nonpartisan economic experts?

    My data come from Marcelle Chauvet and James Hamilton.

    If Clinton's policies had little to do with the economy, does that mean no President's policies matter much? Or does that mean you can blame Democrats and credit Republicans only? If the economy is good under a Democrat or bad under a Republican, they have nothing to do with it?
    If you believe this, explain why the economy performs better under Democrats than Republicans. Studies have shown this can't be the result of random chance. Maybe God loves Democrtas and hates Republicans. Maybe it's all his doing.