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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    September 29, 2006
    COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN - SEPTEMBER 29, 2006

    "COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" (8:00 P.M.-9:00 P.M. ET)

    Host: Keith Olbermann

    Topics/Guests:

    • THE WOODWARD BOOK: Dana Milbank, Washington Post
    • THE EVIL ROGER AILES: Craig Crawford

    Olbermann Week in Review. Monday: attack Fox News. Tuesday: more attacks on Fox News. Wednesday: still more attacks on Fox News. Thursday: even still more attacks on Fox News. So we come to Friday: yet on top of that even still more attacks on Fox News.

    The opening spiel: Bob Woodward's book (covered yesterday), Roger Ailes (yesterday and the day before), Mark Foley (R), George Allen (R), and a supersized oddball. Olby led off by bringing up the NIE report (all week) and the Woodward book (yesterday).

    It's a "dysfunctional adminstration", "Mister" Bush didn't want his cabinet to use the word "insurgency", "Mister" Bush's parents had misgivings about Iraq. What's more, Cheney was calling weapons inspectors with locations to look for WMDs. (Sounds like the Veep was himself convinced of their existence, like all those other intelligence agencies around the world.)

    Clips from Bob Woodward on CBS being interviewed by Mike Wallace. Hmm. If Chris Wallace is a "monkey", does that mean his dad is just an elderly simian? Keith didn't tell us. Clips of Rumsfeld (R) saying he hasn't read the book (not surprising, since it's not on sale yet) and Tony Snow (R). Clips of Levin (D), Schumer (D), Reed (D).

    Olby asked Dana Milbank, shorn of showy regalia, about whom the President is listening to, using one of his trademark leading questions:

    Is that credible any more? Do we need to start wondering if the only voices he listens to are the ones inside his own head?

    Dana didn't even bat an eye at the irony of Krazy Keith accusing someone else of being delusional. Instead he served his usual human-Xerox purpose, reiterating OlbySpin by citing Abizaid, ex-General Batiste, and John Murtha. It occured to us at this point that much of what appears in this book might contradict the assertions in Tommy Franks's tome. Let's check the wayback machine for all the coverage the Franks book got on Countdown. Um...hold on...it's got to be here somewhere...oh, wait. Never mind.

    KO described the whole thing as "the outing of the President's dishonesty", DM talked of circling the wagons, and Olby spoke of the book as a "galvanizing force" for the Democrats. Herr Olbermann has identified a lot of things over the past few months that were going "galvanize" the Democrats. Abramoff, Rove, PlameGate, Scooter Libby, Bill Clinton... He's bound to hit one eventually.

    Just in case referencing ex-General Batiste didn't make the case strongly enough, the discredited sports guy announced that Batiste will be the latest in his series of anti-adminstration guests on Monday. After a short bit on Iraq (rumors of a possible military coup), the first commercial break mercifully came into view. But not before a tease for Olby's attack on Roger Ailes.

    There followed another tease about Roger Ailes ("the round man" [1]). There would have been another half-dozen except that the infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann bumped his latest attack up to the second (#4) slot. With his copy of "Fat Insults for All Occasions" at the ready, Olby lit into "the rotund refugee from the Ministry of Truth" [2]. He lied that Chris Wallace broke an "agreement" on ground rules, and read a quote that he described as Ailes speaking "between pies" [3].

    Then Keith decided to flash back to the elder Bush, and a contentious interview with Dan Rather. KO claimed Ailes had set the whole thing up, and had "scripted" Bush's responses. Of course, Krazy Keith added that when Ailes speaks, "don't get your hands too close to his mouth" [4] and called him a "fat ass" [5].

    Cue Craig Crawford, the chortling pundit (aka Olbermann's Brain). Olby said that the "bad publicity" over the interview "galvanized the Democratic party". Again? More galvanizing? There isn't enough zinc on the planet for all this galvanizing. "Monkey" Olbermann claimed that Bush the elder's comeback to Rather was on cue cards, while Clinton just ad-libbed and he "beat Chris Wallace senseless".

    Remember that Brain wrote a book "Attack the Messenger", the thesis of which was that politicians demonize reporters for political effect. Brain chorlted about the elder Bush/Rather interview as "deconstructed" in his book as a quintessential example of "attack the media". He said a CBS cameraman (impartial source!) told him Roger Ailes had Bush's "attack" scripted on a cue card.

    After all the cackling and sniggering, it boiled down to this. Elder Bush attacking a journalist: bad because he used cue cards. Bill Jefferson Clinton attacking a journalist: good, because he didn't have cue cards. Perhaps in his next book, Olbermann's Brain will explain which reporters it's OK to attack. Or possibly he'll just publish a list of the politicians who have permission to go after journalists of their choosing. Here's a shortcut to that list: all the ones with a (D).

    Olby wondered of Fox "why are their ratings down?", leaving out that the ratings of all the cable news channels are down. He added that Ailes "looks a little like Rod Steiger playing Napoleon" [6]. Brain snorted that Fox preaches "to the base" and that makes it harder to branch out. KO added a final shot: "

    I'm sure Mr Ailes wishes that personally he could stop broadening out.

    Congratulations, Olbermann. You have made fun of a fat man's weight no less than seven times in 10 minutes. [Video!] That's what makes your show so smart and intellectual. You're really quite the man.

    #3: The Mark Foley resignation and the George Allen controversies. The latter led to another fascinating personal reminisence by Keith "Man on Fan" Olbermann--something about George's Allen father, the point being that it somehow makes Allen the younger a liar. Then the n-word controversies, and "another" alleged eyewitness account of same. This was a report from David Shuster (covered yesterday on Hardball), rerun for the viewing pleasure of Countdown viewers.

    There was a mention of one of the many people who have publicly insisted that Allen never used the n-word. Needless to say, none of those people was interviewed. But there was something different about this report as it aired tonight. Something that was there on Hardball, but not in the version that aired on The Hour of Spin. Are you ready for this? It's a pip.

    Slippery's piece included the eyewitness saying how she would have gone after Allen even if he were a Democrat. But there was a context for this. On Hardball, Shuster's report also included the salient fact that the eyewitness he was interviewing, as well as another alleged ear-witness to the n-word, were both Democrat activists. They support, campaign, and work for Democrats. What happened to that part when it ran on Countdown? They cut it out! Why? Because Keith Olbermann doesn't host a newscast. He runs The Hour of Spin.

    In a hilarious postscript, Slippery made mention of allegations about James Webb, but refused even to say what they were until he could interview the accuser on camera and give him "scrutiny". Apparently the Washington Post, which reported this business on Thursday, all of a sudden is too unreliable to be the basis for a report on Countdown. This is hilarious because Olby has been reporting the n-word charges about Allen since Day One of the allegations--based on newspaper reports--without interviews or "scrutiny". Hey, it's George Allen. To hell with scrutiny!

    NAME

    After oddball: Virgin's in Space, followed by Anna Nicole Smith, Rosie O'Donnell, and great oddball moments of September. Two politicians made the "worst person" list. Amazingly, both had an (R) after their names. In the ratings race, Olby eeked out a third place finish on Thursday. Krazy Keith's pimping of the book that bears his name was shameless tonight, but it is only #60 on amazon, while Mr Bill's is #8. Curious how KO is not doing those amazon comparisons any more. Tonight's MisterMeter reading: 4 [GUARDED].


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (315) | | View blog reactions

    315 Comments

    I was wondering where you was!
    guilty. i cut &paste from yesterday's board.

    The Mr Soap Flakes comedy hour and free democrat party advertisement was as usual funny.
    My first point is WTF was up with Mr. Soap Flakes hair??? Is the big looney wearing a toupe or was his highness just having a bad hair day. he looked like Jim Trafficant with his pompadour. What a nutjob he is.
    It must suck to be Olby. I mean this guy has more enemies than anybody. the way he shoots of his mouth and calls people names He called Roger Ailes "fat ass" on primetime? I'l bet the FCC wand MSNBC management will not like that. Then he suggested that Ailes has another pie?? I though Mr Soap Flakes was so politclly correct. I guess the typical liberal hypocrisy only covers other liberals.
    Nice of him to go after George Allen's Dad too. I really like the senile ol liberal bat that he paraded out. She said she remebers "vividly" Allen using the N word several times but this old democratic operative cannot even remember what season the game was in when Allen was supposed to have used the slurs! Gee I can remeber this guy using certain words vividly but I cannot remember if was spring or fall!! Real realiable witness for the libs.
    He can come to big gay Rosie's defense but make fun of the guy who reported on the sicko dyke's horrid TV appearence's last name. yeah there is another adult argument from Mr Soap Flakes. Did you snort those alleged soap flakes you got in the mail Kiethy? or did you just wash your hair with them??
    it was real noce of Mr Flakes to advertise Bill O'reilly's book seeing as how that book is outselling his own autobiography .
    C'mon soapy ya gotta come up with more stuff than this to stay o TV. You have ten to fifteen minutes of bash Bush and the republicans and then stupid clips that may amuse you but are just internet trash. Well trash does promote more trash.
    yeah both parties have scumbags but ted kennedy never owned up and never paid for his crime and is still in the senate and has the unmitigated gall to speak about moral authority.

    Ironic isn't it that Olbermann's own ass reportedly comes with it's own "wide load" banner across it.

    I didn't read any mention of the Mark Foley controversey, other than to say that it was a topic tonight. I didn't catch Countdown yet, so I can't say what he mentioned or failed to mention.

    Did he not discuss this?
    If so is there any reason why this went without report above?

    It wouldn't be because it brings great shame to the republicans and is utterly indefensible, would it?

    To me the whole anti-Olbermann message on this site always has more to do with disagreeing with his assertions and less to do with the actual programming format.

    I guess its not enough to agree to disagree, you have to try to make the people that disagree with you look like they don't have a right to their opinions.

    I think its great that Mark Foley is such a strong proponent of family values and has fought to bring strong legislation against the use of the internet to lure minors for sex.

    He is the embodiment of a great American, one all republicans can be proud of. If I lived in his district I would surely have voted for him.

    The fact that he is a total hypocrite proves nothing about the republican morality that we all hold so highly. Just because he uses his power to try to lure underage boys for sex doesn't mean he doesn't know what's right for everyone else. Like all republicans, he is perfectly capable of telling everyone else how to run their lives but also smart enough to know that the rules don't need to apply to him. We have some great moral leaders in our party, for sure.

    He reported the bare facts. It took up about a minute, maybe less. Within that particular 60 seconds or so, Olby didn't lie.

    There, happy now?

    I think its great that Mark Foley is such a strong proponent of family values and has fought to bring strong legislation against the use of the internet to lure minors for sex.

    He is the embodiment of a great American, one all republicans can be proud of. If I lived in his district I would surely have voted for him.

    The fact that he is a total hypocrite proves nothing about the republican morality that we all hold so highly. Just because he uses his power to try to lure underage boys for sex doesn't mean he doesn't know what's right for everyone else. Like all republicans, he is perfectly capable of telling everyone else how to run their lives but also smart enough to know that the rules don't need to apply to him. We have some great moral leaders in our party, for sure.

    "He reported the bare facts. It took up about a minute, maybe less. Within that particular 60 seconds or so, Olby didn't lie.
    There, happy now?"

    Happy now? No, not really...

    So why no mention?

    I think it might be because this is less a website about Countdown and more a site about some unnatural obsession with Olbermann.
    The fact that the completely indefensible, hypocritical and embarrassing story wasn't mentioned here simply proves that omission for many republicans is what its all about.

    You whine about him re-reporting old stories, but when he reports on a COMPLETE SCANDAL you neglect it altogether.

    SERIOUS HYPOCRITES.

    I like it when Olbermann makes fun of fat people -- it alienates more of his audience. I guess he hasn't looked at the reports that claim about half of America is now Obese (or looked at his immense flabby ass, for that matter). Even better is his desire to "scrutinize" a story. As far as I can tell, Keith works from hearsay by choice. I can't recall him investigating any of his "stories."

    The only "in the field" reporting he's willing to do involves baseball fields.

    I would really like for someone to explain to me how this tactic of attaking FOX by KO and other MSNBC personalities is supposed to help their ratings?

    As for attacking Roger Ailes weight..how many times has KO put someone on his Worst persons list who made fun of somebody's physical looks?...KO really has no shame or class.

    Oh well FOX always has the last laugh when the ratings come in...and I'm sure Ailes is not losing any sleep worring about what KO thinks about him.

    > You whine about him re-reporting old stories, but when he reports on a COMPLETE SCANDAL you neglect it altogether.

    "#3: The Mark Foley resignation"

    So much for your claim there was "no mention". So much for saying it was neglected "altogether". How ironic that someone who posts as "the truth" is caught in a lie.

    To my fellow republicans:

    I am deeply sorry for getting caught trying to have sex with an underage boy. I know it was wrong doing what I did, but I couldn't help myself. He was SOOOOOO CUUUUUTE!!!!!
    His butt was so firm you could bounce a quarter off the damn thing!

    I know we vilified Clinton for his abuse of power in the Lewinsky thing, but seriously think about it...
    That was CLINTON.
    This is me.
    I'm a republican for Cripes sake!!!

    Surely you can all agree that I know what's best for everyone else! Hell, many of you guys even voted for me! Joe Scarborough and Sean Hannity have heralded my work to stop child sex abuse.
    Are THEY wrong too??
    I DOUBT IT!!!

    I'll keep in touch, but I gotta go for now.

    I'm off to have sex with a super-cute 15 year old boy with the tightest butt you ever saw!!
    Don't playa hate!!

    Hey Foley admitted he did wrong and the republican leadership told him to resign his seat.You seek to define the entire republican party on one slimeball then good! we'll define the entire democratic party on Klinton being a rapist and sexual predator and ted Kennedy for being a murderer. the difference is Klinton and Kennedy are still democrat leaders.
    When republicans break the law they resign or get forced out by their party . When democrats do bad things they get elevated to postions of leadership in their party.
    I'll just bet that NAMBLA is a donor to democrats .
    the real problem with Mr soap fakes is myriad and diverse. On his show he ony has "guests" and reporters that support his progressive politcally correct anti- Bush anti conservative views. he goes after FOX and O'Reilly like a schoolyard bully and is very juvenile about it. Olbyloon is just so full of himself and so arrogant, condescending and cocky that he just invites criticism and rebuke. He passes himself off as a journalist but he is no journalist he is just a left wing democrat hack. He uses foul language and insults his opponents in the most vile way yet takes severe umbrage at anybody who dares question him or anyone he supports. You want me to go on? because I could go on for hours about this left wingnut hypocrite. His finest moment i think came when he pawned himself off laughably as a real journalist while giving Klinton a check on national TV before the interview then calls Chris Wallace who IA a REAL journalist a "monkey" and said he "sandbagged" Klinton for asking him a real question. you want more????? I got all night.

    Hey Foley admitted he did wrong and the republican leadership told him to resign his seat.You seek to define the entire republican party on one slimeball then good! we'll define the entire democratic party on Klinton being a rapist and sexual predator and ted Kennedy for being a murderer. the difference is Klinton and Kennedy are still democrat leaders.
    When republicans break the law they resign or get forced out by their party . When democrats do bad things they get elevated to postions of leadership in their party.
    I'll just bet that NAMBLA is a donor to democrats .
    the real problem with Mr soap fakes is myriad and diverse. On his show he ony has "guests" and reporters that support his progressive politcally correct anti- Bush anti conservative views. he goes after FOX and O'Reilly like a schoolyard bully and is very juvenile about it. Olbyloon is just so full of himself and so arrogant, condescending and cocky that he just invites criticism and rebuke. He passes himself off as a journalist but he is no journalist he is just a left wing democrat hack. He uses foul language and insults his opponents in the most vile way yet takes severe umbrage at anybody who dares question him or anyone he supports. You want me to go on? because I could go on for hours about this left wingnut hypocrite. His finest moment i think came when he pawned himself off laughably as a real journalist while giving Klinton a check on national TV before the interview then calls Chris Wallace who IS a REAL journalist a "monkey" and said he "sandbagged" Klinton for asking him a real question. you want more????? I got all night.

    Hey Foley admitted he did wrong and the republican leadership told him to resign his seat.You seek to define the entire republican party on one slimeball then good! we'll define the entire democratic party on Klinton being a rapist and sexual predator and ted Kennedy for being a murderer. the difference is Klinton and Kennedy are still democrat leaders.
    When republicans break the law they resign or get forced out by their party . When democrats do bad things they get elevated to postions of leadership in their party.
    I'll just bet that NAMBLA is a donor to democrats .
    the real problem with Mr soap fakes is myriad and diverse. On his show he ony has "guests" and reporters that support his progressive politcally correct anti- Bush anti conservative views. he goes after FOX and O'Reilly like a schoolyard bully and is very juvenile about it. Olbyloon is just so full of himself and so arrogant, condescending and cocky that he just invites criticism and rebuke. He passes himself off as a journalist but he is no journalist he is just a left wing democrat hack. He uses foul language and insults his opponents in the most vile way yet takes severe umbrage at anybody who dares question him or anyone he supports. You want me to go on? because I could go on for hours about this left wingnut hypocrite. His finest moment i think came when he pawned himself off laughably as a real journalist while giving Klinton a check on national TV before the interview then calls Chris Wallace who IS a REAL journalist a "monkey" and said he "sandbagged" Klinton for asking him a real question. you want more????? I got all night.

    ""#3: The Mark Foley resignation"
    So much for your claim there was "no mention". So much for saying it was neglected "altogether". How ironic that someone who posts as "the truth" is caught in a lie."

    That's NOT a lie. The referrence I made to being neglected was that there was no synopsis of the segment. Just "#3: The Mark Foley resignation". Ya, that's a real mention all right. The Countdown story was so neglected by you that it appeared to not be on the show tonight.

    How about a little truthiness J$?

    All this BS about calling someone fat or alleged unreliable George Allen sources, and no discussion about a huge scandal?

    Surely you can see why some might find this a little biased and goofy.

    Keith's the host that's so easily mocked
    Like Slick Willy he goes off half-cocked
    Throbbing purple vein
    Is Mister Clinton insane?
    To Fox News the sane folks have flocked

    "To Fox News the sane folks have flocked"

    Now THAT'S funny!!!
    lol

    According to his ex-(dissatisfied) lovers on the "for this relief much thanks" blog, he has womanly hips capable of birthing triplets and a huge ass.

    > The referrence I made to being neglected was that there was no synopsis of the segment.

    There was nothing to synopsize. He read off the facts and went on to something else. But why am I bothering to argue with you? You said there was no mention. You lied. That's enough for me.

    BYE.

    Of course Obly didn't go into detail or call Foley a perv. Olbermann is guilty of the same thing, maybe not with teenage boys but he loves sending his young female fans dirty emails and asking for dirty pictures.

    He's a huge hypocrite alright, accent on the word HUGE.

    "There was nothing to synopsize. He read off the facts and went on to something else. But why am I bothering to argue with you? You said there was no mention. You lied. That's enough for me."

    NOW who's lying Johnny?

    There was NOTHING to synopsize?
    "He read off the facts and went on to something else."

    Sounds like a synopsis to me! One that WASN'T there in the original text.

    God you are such a hypocritical BS artist. Try to slant it all you want, but just be a man and admit you neglected to mention the story the same way you mentioned the other stories because it made one of your people look like an a--hole.

    You may have some of these people believing your crap, but when you omit such a serious story other than to list "#3 The Mark Foley resignation" you are showing what kind of credibility your account of this show has. You didn't even make ANY mention of the facts of the resignation at all.

    Too busy worrying about Olbermann's book plugs and George Allen story I guess.

    HYPOCRITE.

    BYE.

    Ukranian wrote: "Of course Obly didn't go into detail or call Foley a perv. Olbermann is guilty of the same thing, maybe not with teenage boys but he loves sending his young female fans dirty emails and asking for dirty pictures."

    That is an interesting point. After all, Foley has an (R) after his name and he did do something illegal. So why didn't Olby flog the story? Does he have an IM name like "cooldude" and send interns dirty messages?

    Using Olbylogic, we see that Olby is a pervert and a defender of Foley by virtue of the fact that this story was glossed over!

    QED!

    See, here's the problem. The looney libs want this to be the ONLY news story that's being covered right now. Go to any of their websites, they are jumping up and down and shouting in glee over this story. Because it's huge to them, they think it should be a huge story to everyone else. Obviously the national media, and Olbermann is certainly your spokesperson right-has decided it was only worthy of a passing mention. So if Olby didn't think it was a huge story, what exactly is your problem with Johnny not mentioning it again? Really, get some perspective there, THE TRUTH, or realize that what you really should be called is MY OPINION, because you can't apparently judge what is and isn't important when it comes to news stories.

    That Olby has trouble even saying the word Florida anymore after his man on fan encounter from a resident of that state that turned rather badly for him when she started her own blog about his shortcomings. I'd say he's particularly sensitive to stories about sex, internets and the like.

    Oh you guys, who cares about Olby when weve got Foley to kick around?
    that's right riverpup, one of your revered republican heroes is a pederast.that means a homo who likes little boys( easier prey).
    i love your defense, though. as if getting rid of him means anything. HE LIKES TO BUGGER LITTLE BOYS!!!! ! I want you to renounce Foley right now! any defense of Foley on your part will only make things worse.i wnt you to say that Foley is an evil fag and deserves to burn in hell!
    I wont hold my breath though. He's a republican so he's safe from any criticism. He should move to the Macaca state where that kind of shit is tolerated...

    Amen to that, Rumor Has It. He decided to gloss over a story about an alleged Republican pedophile? Quite strange if you ask me. I'm not saying that Olby likes children but the dirty emails thing hit close to home.

    Get a grip on yourself there "Al". Notice that Olby didn't spent ANY time on this story beyond the bare minimum. Now as a lap dog of the left, why wasn't he all over this story like white on rice exacty? No, instead he was all enthralled with the Allen story from Virginia instead, probably becaue he could tell a long, boring, pointless story about his sports days in LA. It seems to me the anger and ire here tonight towards JD about the "lack of coverage" on this story might better be aimed at your boy Olby. Why don't you ask HIM why he didn't think it was worth more than a quick mention?

    Apparently there are some people who don't get the purpose of this site. It's not to publish instant transcripts of Olbermann's nightly hour of spin. We don't type out every word he speaks. That's why A-Mess-NBC publishes transcripts.

    And we don't repeat dry facts that are covered elsewhere. The purpose of this site to point out where the infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann lies, distorts, and slants the news. That includes his cracks, his name-calling, his fawning sycophantic "guests", and all the other tools in his shed of propaganda.

    If all Olby did was read headlines, this site wouldn't exist. And it doesn't exist to repeat the headlines he does read. It exists to document when he goes beyond the headlines, past the facts, and sends all concepts of journalism to new depths of repellent sleaziness. Luckily for us, that happens on every show.

    I have spoken.

    Of course he likes children. He still IS a child, or at least childish as he demonstrated tonight, calling someone a 'fat ass", never mind he's got a huge one of his own.

    "See, here's the problem. The looney libs want this to be the ONLY news story that's being covered right now."

    The ONLY story?
    Who said that?? Don't misrepresent what was said.

    I asked why it wasn't mentioned in the text.

    "Using Olbylogic, we see that Olby is a pervert and a defender of Foley by virtue of the fact that this story was glossed over!"

    What would that then make Johnny Dollar for his non-reporting of the same incident?

    Anyone wanna go bang some little boys?

    God I'm horny...

    I'm gonna go see what I can get at Chuck E. Cheese.

    Anyone see my bag of candy? I'm gonna need it if I plan on busting a nut tonight.

    And what does Foley per se have to do with Olbermann other than Olbermann doesn't seem to deem him worthy of spending any significant time on the story on his hour of spin? You do realize the name of this blog is OLBERMANNWATCH right?

    riverdog,
    You know a lot about NAMBLA and bring it up a lot. Why is that? Did they kick you out or something? You're a former member?

    Geez big gay al if maybe you could ,um, read you'll see that the first lines of my first post condemned this sicko. The disturbing thing is in how much detail you go into about your knowledge and seeming to imply that you know firsthand that little boys are "easy prey".You seem to have all the distinct vernacular down pat in relation to child molesting. Very distubing big gay al, very disturbing. Maybe that now Foley has come clean is there anything you would like to confess??
    I think you are mistaking the republicans and democrats. the democrats are the ones who reward members of their party for rape and murder Olbermann does not want to touch too much on sexual deviants because he does not want to alienate his base. And like a typical liberal when ya got nothin' you can always cry racism in regard to George Allen. It's worked to give jesse jackson and al sharpton a paycheck for years.

    Your hero Foley was mentioned during every commercial break leading up to the segment and then he did the story. He mentioned the committee he chaired and legislation he passed. He didn't gloss over it. Maybe you were all too busy trying to cover your own tracks to notice.

    Is the right gonna love bob woodward now that he is exposing what a ding dong decision it was to go to war without a plan to actually win?

    What's all this about Olbermann being an internet pervert...that has been implied.

    So let me get this straight. One republican has resigned because he wrote perverted e-mails to a teen age boy. Another republican is under fire for saying a racial slur to a high school student as well as an alleged history of saying the word "nigger" on many occasions. I know the reports claim these are two different people but I can't help but think these stories sound very similar to the behavior and mentality of the one we know as "riverdog".

    Colbertmann you are back! you are like turd that just won't flush. I guess your gay bar must have closed early tonight.
    hey Colbert now that Foley is available you can car pool with him and big gay al to your NAMBLA meetings.
    Colbert how many times are you going to verbally and mentally have your ass kicked before you shut the hell up. you are like a little leftard boomerang.

    I am glad to see all you conservative wackos watching Olbermann, maybe he'll permiate your numbskulls....

    riverdog, What is your opinion of the log cabin republicans?

    I am glad to see all you conservative wackos watching Olbermann, maybe he'll permiate your numbskulls....

    Anonymous and Clobert are one in the same! It's like getting two ignorant leftards for the price of one! Gotcha cobertmann! your secret is out and probably so are you- so now go back to your little closet like a good little sword swallower.
    hey even you leftards like to use the N word dontcha? makes you sound kinda hip. as in hypocritical.
    Colbert you really should quit before you embarrass yourself more than you have already done and yeah colbertmann I know all about NAMBLA from when I got togetehr a bunch of citezns and asked them "nicely" to leave my town. You are the one litle fella that is always defending sexual degenrates.
    I repeat colbertmann how much more of a liberal fool do you want to be? You are getting boring and annoying and it is really no fun or challenge having a battle of wits with someone so utterly defenseless as yourself. Don't go away mad little fella- just go away.

    Anonymous and Clobert are one in the same! It's like getting two ignorant leftards for the price of one! Gotcha cobertmann! your secret is out and probably so are you- so now go back to your little closet like a good little sword swallower.
    hey even you leftards like to use the N word dontcha? makes you sound kinda hip. as in hypocritical.
    Colbert you really should quit before you embarrass yourself more than you have already done and yeah colbertmann I know all about NAMBLA from when I got togetehr a bunch of citizens and asked them "nicely" to leave my town. You are the one litle fella that is always defending sexual degenrates.
    I repeat colbertmann how much more of a liberal fool do you want to be? You are getting boring and annoying and it is really no fun or challenge having a battle of wits with someone so utterly defenseless as yourself. Don't go away mad little fella- just go away.

    Damn I ask you a simple question and all you can do is ramble on about gay this and NAMBLA that. Sorry to stump your brain riverdog.

    Anonymous and Clobert are one in the same! It's like getting two ignorant leftards for the price of one! Gotcha cobertmann! your secret is out and probably so are you- so now go back to your little closet like a good little sword swallower.
    hey even you leftards like to use the N word dontcha? makes you sound kinda hip. as in hypocritical.
    Colbert you really should quit before you embarrass yourself more than you have already done and yeah colbertmann I know all about NAMBLA from when I got togetehr a bunch of citizens and asked them "nicely" to leave my town. You are the one litle fella that is always defending sexual degenrates.
    I repeat colbertmann how much more of a liberal fool do you want to be? You are getting boring and annoying and it is really no fun or challenge having a battle of wits with someone so utterly defenseless as yourself. Don't go away mad little fella- just go away.

    Hah! you republicons are delusional!
    You think he was protecting Foley because he's in on the pedophilia thing? Oh riverdog, haven't dated much have you?
    what is it with you conservatives that makes you so...simple?
    I'd love to talk to your shrinks!
    Before you wrap yourself in the confederate flag tonite, remember that Foley was a self loathing homosexual too. there is hope for you all as well. you all talk like Foley. guess behind the scenes you all share certain...appetites?
    PS- Roger Ailes loves young Thai boys too!

    "maybe he'll permiate your numbskulls"

    I think you mean "maybe he'll permiate your thick skulls."? Are you leftists too stupid to write a coherent sentence? Are you all "numbskulls"?

    "I know all about NAMBLA from when I got togetehr a bunch of citizens and asked them "nicely" to leave my town."

    haha, that is such a load of bs. You are such a liar.

    C,mon "anonymous" come out of yoru closet and admit that you are "Colbert". the way you talk sometimes you make me believe that you may in fact be the big olbermann hisself! The syntax and delivery have some common points with someof the real Olbtard "special coments" well isn't that special! Great a friggin schitzoliberal
    you are out! the only questions you asked colbert was under yournome de plum - or in your case nom de a--hole the moronic anonymous.
    now you are like two turds that just won't flush.
    C'mon olbermann fess up you chickenshit liberal. I know ya don't have the balls to admit it do ya ?
    Do it now!

    Keith stalks young girls on the internet from his work e-mail. No doubt he IM's women with dirty stuff from work as well. Olby knows when to avoid a story.

    riverqueer,
    You got together with NAMBLA and swallowed swords? What the hell does that mean? Nevermind. You just leave your freakish life out of this.
    In a thread for one of this week's shows, riverdog was proven a liar about his fake military service. He was outed and quit arguing. He totally dropped the subject when it became apparent the other poster had real military experience.Riverdog is a gutless wannabe.

    wow! big gay al/colbert/anaonymous/olbermann himself . we gonna have a party. you just don't give up do ya bigayalcolbertanonymousolbermann?
    I know thait takes four of you to fight one little ol conservarive don't it? and I still have you beat and outnumbered.
    log cabin republicans? I'll bet they make GREAT pancakes but until they get the mental help for their disease I don't pay much attention. You can put log cabin in front of anything but homosexuality is still a mental disorder.

    riverqueer,
    Listen freak. I don't want to know about what you and your fellow log cabin Republicans do together. And why do I get the feeling the thought of having four guys on you turns you on? You're a sick freak who needs help.

    First of all I am not colbert. Second you still have not answered my simple question. Third I can be anon if I want. You call yourself riverdog. What's the difference? You know when I am talking to you and I know when you are talking to me.

    colbert people have enough sense to realize that you are an a--hole. I did my service in the 70's and nobody disproved it. there is no easier way to get your neck snapped than question/degrade/denigrate somebody's military service. hut of sourse you, sitting safely behind you little computer secreen can never really find out the truth can you? there is only one way yot prove it and you have not the cajones for that amigo.
    another sure way to have bones dislocated and broken is to accuse me of being one of yoru NAMBLA freaks. We found out about NAMBLA having a meeting in a library and we went there and told them to leave and then we reported the meeting to the local LEO's to watch for them if they were stupid enought to come back.
    I got you on the colbert/anonymous/ big gay al thing why don'e you give up and quit compromising this website with your blatant stupidity. you lost man give up .
    like I said colbertmanbiggayalanonymous there is only one way fro me to truly prove myself and i guarantee you will not like it. you will then believe me but you will not like it.
    you chickenshit punk.

    funny how clobert and anonymous are on at the same time and their questions/statements/attacks always blend in linguistically. Tell us oh great pschitzo-liberal who are you really. are you the great olby? what's your question leftard?

    My vision of riverdog........

    Somewhat overweight white guy who watches a lot of TV. Goes to church on Sundays but otherwise spends most of his spare time at home. He probably spends a lot of time looking at internet porn as a way to fill in the gap of not having someone around. Doesn't read newspapers too much. The information is too hard to process. TV makes it go down much easier. He has a paranoid view of the world and takes that out on the ones he chats with on the internet under the name "riverdog". Calling people gay or other names gives him a sense of superiority that tends to vanish when the he turns off his computer. He keeps a bible next to his bed but hasn't read it in years. He just glances at the same passages that he is comfortable with. He is a republican but he's too far to the right to really relate to most mainstream republicans. So as he waits for amageddon to come, he will spend his time spewing out words of hate and insults to those he disagrees with. He hopes that when that time arrives, he will be rewarded for living a righteous life.

    My vision of riverdog........
    Posted by: Anonymous at September 30, 2006 01:58 AM

    Hey wait a minute. Half that stuff sounds like me!

    I have a paranoid vision of the world and I like internet porn.

    High school ROTC does not count as military experience riverdog. I tried looking up your military record but couldn't find anything under the name "riverdog". Yes it is hard to disprove your military service with that info.

    So we are supposed to think that one of the most reviled organizations in the country, whose membership according to the FBI peaked at about 1100 in 1995 and probably no longer exists, would choose to have a meeting at a public library in your home town. Don't you think they would have a better time if they did it in one of their homes? I bet this is the story. Yes the people whose meeting you broke up were gay. They probably felt safe hanging out there. Who knows. Some friends of yours saw them and decided that if they are gay, then through deductive logic, it must be that they are NAMBLA members. You go to confront them cause that is what homophobes do. You scare them out of the library as they probably have been accosted by people like you for years. Jesus would be really proud.

    Xxxxxxxxx (7:46:38 PM): lol no
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:46:40 PM): im single right now
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:46:57 PM): my last gf and i broke up a few weeks agi
    Maf54 (7:47:11 PM): are you
    Maf54 (7:47:11 PM): good so your getting horny
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:47:29 PM): lol...a bit
    Maf54 (7:48:00 PM): did you spank it this weekend yourself
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:48:04 PM): no
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:48:16 PM): been too tired and too busy
    Maf54 (7:48:33 PM): wow...
    Maf54 (7:48:34 PM): i am never to busy haha
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:48:51 PM): haha
    Maf54 (7:50:02 PM): or tired..helps me sleep
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:50:15 PM): thats true
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:50:36 PM): havent been having a problem with sleep though.. i just walk in the door and collapse well at least this weekend
    Maf54 (7:50:56 PM): i am sure
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:50:57 PM): i dont do it very often normally though
    Maf54 (7:51:11 PM): why not
    Maf54 (7:51:22 PM): at your age seems like it would be daily
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:51:57 PM): not me
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:01 PM): im not a horn dog
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:07 PM): maybe 2 or 3 times a week
    Maf54 (7:52:20 PM): thats a good number
    Maf54 (7:52:27 PM): in the shower
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:36 PM): actually usually i dont do it in the shower
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:42 PM): just cause i shower in the morning
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:47 PM): and quickly
    Maf54 (7:52:50 PM): in the bed
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:59 PM): i get up at 530 and am outta the house by 610
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:03 PM): eh ya
    Maf54 (7:53:24 PM): on your back
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:30 PM): no face down
    Maf54 (7:53:32 PM): love details
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:34 PM): lol
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:36 PM): i see that
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:37 PM): lol
    Maf54 (7:53:39 PM): really
    Maf54 (7:53:54 PM): do you really do it face down
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:54:03 PM): ya
    Maf54 (7:54:13 PM): kneeling
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:54:31 PM): well i dont use my hand...i use the bed itself
    Maf54 (7:54:31 PM): where do you unload it
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:54:36 PM): towel
    Maf54 (7:54:43 PM): really
    Maf54 (7:55:02 PM): completely naked?
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:55:12 PM): well ya
    Maf54 (7:55:21 PM): very nice
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:55:24 PM): lol
    Maf54 (7:55:51 PM): cute butt bouncing in the air
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:56:00 PM): haha
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:56:05 PM): well ive never watched myslef
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:56:08 PM): but ya i guess
    Maf54 (7:56:18 PM): i am sure not
    Maf54 (7:56:22 PM): hmmm
    Maf54 (7:56:30 PM): great visual
    Maf54 (7:56:39 PM): i may try that
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:56:43 PM): it works
    Maf54 (7:56:51 PM): hmm
    Maf54 (7:56:57 PM): sound inetersting
    Maf54 (7:57:05 PM): i always use lotion and the hand
    Maf54 (7:57:10 PM): but who knows
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:57:24 PM): i dont use lotion...takes too much time to clean up
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:57:37 PM): with a towel you can just wipe off....and go
    Maf54 (7:57:38 PM): lol
    Maf54 (7:57:45 PM): where do you throw the towel
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:57:48 PM): but you cant work it too hard....or its not good
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:57:51 PM): in the laundry
    Maf54 (7:58:16 PM): just kinda slow rubbing
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:58:23 PM): ya....
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:58:32 PM): or youll rub yourslef raw
    Maf54 (7:58:37 PM): well I have aa totally stiff wood now
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:58:40 PM): cause the towell isnt very soft
    Maf54 (7:58:44 PM): i bet..taht would hurt
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:58:50 PM): but you cn find something softer than a towell i guess
    Maf54 (7:58:59 PM): but it must feel great spirting on the towel
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:59:06 PM): ya
    Maf54 (7:59:29 PM): wow
    Maf54 (7:59:48 PM): is your little guy limp...or growing
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:59:54 PM): eh growing
    Maf54 (8:00:00 PM): hmm
    Maf54 (8:00:12 PM): so you got a stiff one now
    Xxxxxxxxx (8:00:19 PM): not that fast
    Xxxxxxxxx (8:00:20 PM): hey
    Xxxxxxxxx (8:00:32 PM): so you have a fetich
    Maf54 (8:00:32 PM): hey what
    Xxxxxxxxx (8:00:40 PM): fetish**
    Maf54 (8:00:43 PM): like
    Maf54 (8:00:53 PM): i like steamroom

    Any 16 year old boys logged on to this site?

    I'm a Repug so it's OK for me to be a pederast!

    My strong belief that Jesus died for all my sins means I can have sex with little boys and STILL go to heaven!

    Christianity is the best!

    Mark Foley (R) Florida

    ho ho, is riverdog one of the swiftboat anti-semites that lied about Kerry in 2004? that would explain alot...
    speaking of mental diseases, you rightwing fags need to go get your heads checked out. this sad debate is deteriorating into a hissy fit thanx to the likes of river-bitch...where are the rest of the freako con-servatives?

    ho ho, is riverdog one of the swiftboat anti-semites that lied about Kerry in 2004? that would explain alot...
    speaking of mental diseases, you rightwing fags need to go get your heads checked out. this sad debate is deteriorating into a hissy fit thanx to the likes of river-bitch...where are the rest of the freako con-servatives?

    The freako-conservatives are alseep in the knowledge that the appointed one is watching over us all and checking his list and doing it twice to make sure who's been naughty or nice. It's hard work protecting our country from the pinko homo loving Godless liberal traitors who want to cut and run like girly men.

    poor riverdog,

    everyone picking on him. here he claims to be a veteran, says he was in vietnam.

    the only thing is, I proved the other day that his military experience is from watching his hero, John Wayne, and dreaming about being in the service.

    he hasnt ever served. he was spouting his usual dribble and diatribe the other night, when I caught him in a total lie.

    he claimed to have been in the jungle, "being shelled"

    when I pointed out that the NVA nor the vietcong had "Heavy artillery" he tried to change it to being under mortar attack. they are not the same thing, and a mortar attack is not being shelled. It is just not the same thing, and NO ONE who served in vietnam would have ever made that mistake. Well maybe those that have visited Vietnam since travel and trade restrictions were lifted.

    On a personal note, riverdog continually talks about how the democrats are sissies, cowards, cut and runners, etc, etc, .......


    the thing is, I bet that in person, he isnt really what you would call a nice person, but I know that he doesnt run his mouth like he does when he has the anoniminity of the internet, from behine his keyboard and thousands of miles of network cable.

    he just sits there in public, and quietly fumes till he can get back to his puter, so he can vent his frustrations of having to hear all day about how his fearless leader and all the rest of the republicans are degenerates, hypocrits, liars, etc etc etc ......

    he dare not open his mouth when he hears others speaking in public, he saves it all up for right here. his safe and anonymous place where he can run his mouth all he wants without having to face anyone or anything.

    Here is a link, to some of the absolute hypocracy of the self righteous republicans. Jesus Christ himself would have called Foley "lower than a snakes belly".

    Because there were 2 things, that Jesus Christ HATED. Hypocritical self-righteous religions zealots (wonder who that describes in todays parlance). and anyone that would hurt a child. Special place in hell for those sorts.

    anyway, here is the link, and I will post some of the best excerpts.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11217584/from/RL.2/

    This is from Joes show on MSNBC, an interview with Foley and others, regarding perverts soliciting sex from minors, check it out.
    ---------------
    Congressman Foley, let me bring you in here.

    It seems to me we can pass laws that stop predators from sending porn in the mail, U.S. mail. Why can�t we pass laws in Washington, D.C., and in state capitals to stop this type of smut going into e-mails to kids?

    REP. MARK FOLEY �, FLORIDA: Well, Joe, that�s one of the big problems.

    The courts are ruling, repeatedly, that this is a First Amendment issue. We have been able successfully to stop Internet pornography or pornography by the mails. We have been able to stop it from a number of venues.

    (CROSSTALK)

    SCARBOROUGH: Hey, hold on.

    Hey, Mark, are you telling me that courts in this country are saying, it�s a pervert�s right to send an e-mail to a 14-year-old kid and try to pick that kid up for sex? That�s protected by our Constitution?

    That�s why our men and women have died over the past 220 years, to protect perverts� rights to profile 14-year-old kids?

    FOLEY: As frightening as that seems, we have been foiled, if you will, by the courts repeatedly by using the First Amendment and people�s rights to have free speech.

    I agree with you 100 percent. That�s why we have tried to toughen the laws. That�s why we tried to create a more difficult time for predators to roam free. But the �Dateline� piece has probably done more than any law we can create. Hopefully more people will be forewarned. More parents will be taking advantage of the chance to talk to their kids, instructing them about the dangers of the Internet.

    And, certainly, more people that have seen this segment that may be thinking about interacting with a child may go ahead and get mental health counseling.

    (CROSSTALK)

    SCARBOROUGH: Mark, let me ask you, do you think there are any laws that we can pass to fix this problem? Or is this really more personal than legislative?

    FOLEY: Well, I think laws have to be passed.

    Your earlier guest was talking about charges like solicitation, contributing to the delinquency of a minor. There should be a multitude of offenses charged, including trespassing. A number of things can be added, we hope, to the sentences of those that go on to these locations. And, then, hopefully, if you make it tough enough, they then will kind of spread the message that this is not a smart thing to do.

    But it does confound reasonable people that the guy on your show would watch this taking place and subsequently then enter the house himself. It�s just bizarre, it�s absurd, and yet it�s regrettably dangerous for the kids at home.

    (CROSSTALK)

    SCARBOROUGH: Just can�t help themselves.


    ------------------------------------
    This is an exchange with Mark Klaas. same show. this is good. he is a big fan of Mark Foley.


    SCARBOROUGH: Marc, let me ask you, do you think more laws�Marc Klaas, do you think more laws are going to fix this problem or do you think it has more to do with parents stepping up and being responsible with their children in computer usage?

    MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I don�t think there�s any single piece of legislation or any single solution to this. I think part of it certainly is Mr. Foley�s child safety act that has been languishing in the U.S. Senate for the past six months.

    (CROSSTALK)

    SCARBOROUGH: Why won�t the Senate act on that, Marc?

    (CROSSTALK)

    SCARBOROUGH: Marc Klaas, why won�t the Senate do it?

    KLAAS: I think Mr. Foley would be better qualified to answer that.

    But there are a couple of poison pill clauses that exist in that bill that supposedly are keeping the Senate from acting. I suggest they pass a bill, put it in the conference committee, and reconcile it that way. And in fact, I will be going to Washington, D.C., very soon to encourage them to do that.

    But there�s more. I think if you were to take this �Dateline� piece and turn it into a regular program, where Perverted Justice and Chris Hansen or somebody else were to go from city to city to city on a weekly basis, you would create a real deterrent effect that would put some fear into the minds of these perverts. You could even call it �Perv Watch,� if you wanted to.

    It's another example of someone trying to battle something in the world that they were battling in themselves. Why can't we just make our own choices and mind our own business. That could have been one of the commandments. Judge not, and mind your own dagone business. Do your own little privte "jihad". I think that what a "jihad" was supposed to mean anyway.

    "Why can't we just make our own choices and mind our own business."

    Because soliciting sex with minors is a crime, einstein.

    I am confused. Where in Johnny $'s synopsis did he defend/condone Mark Foley's sick actions? Where did this site say it was dedicated to pointing out hypocrisy in politicians? It's called Olbermannwatch not liberalwatch or conservativewatch. Here is a newsflash: ALL POLITICIANS ARE FULL OF SHIT.

    It's funnier pointing out "watchdog" Olbermann's hypocrisy.

    Because soliciting sex with minors is a crime, einstein.


    I am aware of that. So is stealing, murder, etc... I do have some common sense you know. But you sure are good at finding the angle that is in my words but not in their meaning sherlock.

    Catholic Priests were busted for pedophelia that means all Catholics are pedophiles which makes Kerry and Teddy pedophiles as well. No Catholic can speak out against pedophelia because that would make him a hypocrite.

    Only democrats are allowed to be racists and anti-semites.

    "Why can't we just make our own choices and mind our own business"

    Since when did a Liberal become such a staunch individualist. Renounce your collectivist tendancies now!

    Why get defensive over this guy Foley. He fucked up. The thing that gets people going about it is that you have to admit that republicans in general put up a "holier than thou" front and then they turn out to be just as flawed and fucked up as the rest of the world. Just like Henry Hyde with that guys wife on his married lap. While he was impeaching Clinton. Youthful discretion at the age of 46 I think it was. Of course he has been probably "saved" by then so it's all covered now.

    "Is the right gonna love bob woodward now that he is exposing what a ding dong decision it was to go to war without a plan to actually win?"

    No, but the left-wing will surely embrace him now after six years of claiming he was a Republican thug, a BushBot and any number of names.

    "Why can't we just make our own choices and mind our own business"

    Since when did a Liberal become such a staunch individualist. Renounce your collectivist tendancies now!
    Posted by: Crash at September 30, 2006 09:21 AM

    Cause both sides of my brain work. I admit it. I am one confused fellow. How can anyone look at whats around them and not be. That is the very thing that gets me about the "resolute" "must stay the course" "no waffling" etc... I could never be that sure of myself. I got no problem saying it.

    Hey... that's the thing about Christianity. You are told that we are all "sinners" so you might as well just go with it. As long as you repent, all is good.


    To say that the "holier than thou" attitude is limited the right, is absolutley ludicrous. The "psuedo-intelectual" elitism of the left... Do as I say not as I do... attitude is just priceless.

    "Is the right gonna love bob woodward now that he is exposing what a ding dong decision it was to go to war without a plan to actually win?"

    No, but the left-wing will surely embrace him now after six years of claiming he was a Republican thug, a BushBot and any number of names.

    Posted by: Brandon at September 30, 2006 09:30 AM

    Always an angle on the motive. I do like this site.

    Codas,

    Who's defensive about Foley? The guy deserves all the opprobrium we can heap.

    You on the other hand seem to have said that people...no, not people.... REPUBLICANS, of course.. shouldn't make judgements (jihads) upon human perfidy because we're human too...

    Of all the things that one could say about hypocrisy and about this situation in general, yours has to be the silliest.

    Codas,

    Who's defensive about Foley? The guy deserves all the opprobrium we can heap.

    You on the other hand seem to have said that people...no, not people.... REPUBLICANS, of course.. shouldn't make judgements (jihads) upon human perfidy because we're human too...

    Of all the things that one could say about hypocrisy and about this situation in general, yours has to be the silliest.


    Oh well! I'm just a silly boy then.


    "reality-based news for the belligerently uninformed "?

    Hey, I thought you were a fan of Fox.

    ...........


    WHY ARE SO MANY REPUBLICANS PEDOPHILES?

    Republican Congressman Mark Foley abruptly resigned from Congress after "sexually explicit" emails surfaced showing him flirting with a 16-year old boy.
    Republican executive Randall Casseday of the conservative Washington Times newspaper was arrested for soliciting sex from a 13-year old girl on the internet.
    Republican chairman of the Oregon Christian Coalition Lou Beres confessed to molesting a 13-year old girl.
    Republican County Constable Larry Dale Floyd was arrested on suspicion of soliciting sex with an 8-year old girl. Floyd has repeatedly won elections for Denton County, Texas, constable.
    Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.
    Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy.
    Republican petition drive manager Tom Randall pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 14, one of them the daughter of an associate in the petition business.
    Republican County Chairman Armando Tebano was arrested for sexually molesting a 14-year-old girl.
    Republican teacher and former city councilman John Collins pleaded guilty to sexually molesting 13 and 14 year old girls.
    Republican campaign worker Mark Seidensticker is a convicted child molester.
    Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.
    Republican Mayor Tom Adams was arrested for distributing child pornography over the internet.
    Republican Mayor John Gosek was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year old girls.
    Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.
    Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.
    Republican Committeeman John R. Curtain was charged with molesting a teenage boy and unlawful sexual contact with a minor.
    Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.
    Republican zoning supervisor, Boy Scout leader and Lutheran church president Dennis L. Rader pleaded guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11-year old girl he murdered.
    Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.
    Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.
    Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.
    Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.
    Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.
    Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was sentenced to six years in prison for molesting two 8-year old girls, one of whom appeared in an anti-Gore television commercial.
    Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.
    Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.
    Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.
    Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.
    Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.
    Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.
    Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.
    Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.
    Republican Judge Ronald C. Kline was placed under house arrest for child molestation and possession of child pornography.
    Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.
    Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.
    Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.
    Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.
    Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.
    Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.
    Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.
    Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.
    Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.
    Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.
    Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.
    Republican legislator Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).
    Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was found guilty of molesting a 15-year old girl.
    Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.
    Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.
    Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.
    Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.
    Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.
    Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.
    Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.
    Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.
    Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.
    Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.
    Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.
    Republican campaign worker, police officer and self-proclaimed reverend Steve Aiken was convicted of having sex with two underage girls.
    Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.
    Republican president of the New York City Housing Development Corp. Russell Harding pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer.
    Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was found guilty of raping a 15-year old girl. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.

    Gez Mark Foley (R), had you just waited 5 months until your lover was 18 the whole Dem party and Media establishment would have come to your aid. A BJ in your office from an 18 year old, now THAT would have been ironic.

    "had you just waited 5 months until your lover was 18 the whole Dem party and Media establishment "

    Well, the Dems in DC did lower the age of consent to 16. Sixteen. 1-and-6.

    So, legally Foley didn't committ a crime if the conversations (or sexual acts) were entirely in the District. I guess.

    I know alot of truly overweight liberals that probably love KO's show. Calling someone fat is very hurtful, especially to those that are truly overweight.

    I can guarantee you that Keith has lost alot of overweight viewers, that will seriously hurt by his comment.

    Let's say tommorrow he finds out Neil Cavuto or Greta Van Sustern is gay, will he start calling them faggots and dykes?

    KO, you are a very mean man.

    Excellent point there G Monster. At what point do you draw the line on personal insults? And what would the Olby fans be saying if someone called him a "fat ass"? Isn't that there entire beef with Olbermannwatch? That they believe we "insult him" and partake in "name calling" here? Well, that and we tell the truth about his lies and distortions and spin.

    William Jefferson Clinton- Impeached by the House of Representatives over allegations of perjury and obstruction of justice, but acquitted by the Senate. Scandals include Whitewater - Travelgate Gennifer Flowersgate - Filegate - Vince Fostergate - Whitewater Billing Recordsgate - Paula Jonesgate- Lincoln Bedroomgate - Donations from Convicted Drug and Weapons Dealersgate - Lippogate - Chinagate - The Lewinsky Affair - Perjury and Jobs for Lewinskygate - Kathleen Willeygate - Web Hubbell Prison Phone Callgate - Selling Military Technology to the Chinesegate - Jaunita Broaddrick Gate - Lootergate - Pardongate

    Edward Moore Kennedy - Democrat - U. S. Senator from Massachusetts. Pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, after his car plunged off a bridge on Chappaquiddick Island killing passenger Mary Jo Kopechne.

    Barney Frank - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1981 to present. Admitted to having paid Stephen L. Gobie, a male prostitute, for sex and subsequently hiring Gobie as his personal assistant. Gobie used the congressman's Washington apartment for prostitution. A move to expel Frank from the House of Representatives failed and a motion to censure him failed.

    DNC - The Federal Election Commission imposed $719,000 in fines against participants in the 1996 Democratic Party fundraising scandals involving contributions from China, Korea and other foreign sources. The Federal Election Commission said it decided to drop cases against contributors of more than $3 million in illegal DNC contributions because the respondents left the country or the corporations are defunct.

    Sandy Berger - Democrat - National Security Advisor during the Clinton Administration. Berger became the focus of a criminal investigation after removing highly classified terrorism documents and handwritten notes from the National Archives during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings.

    Robert Torricelli - Democrat - Withdrew from the 2002 Senate race with less than 30 days before the election because of controversy over personal gifts he took from a major campaign donor and questions about campaign donations from 1996.

    James McGreevey - Democrat - New Jersey Governor . Admitted to having a gay affair. Resigned after allegations of sexual harassment, rumors of being blackmailed on top of fundraising investigations and indictments.

    Jesse Jackson - Democrat - Democratic candidate for President. Admitted to having an extramarital affair and fathering a illegitimate child.

    Gary Condit - Democrat - US Democratic Congressman from California. Condit had an affair with an intern. Condit, covered up the affair and lied to police after she went missing. No charges were ever filed against Condit. Her remains were discovered in a Washington DC park..

    Sowande Ajumoke Omokunde - Democrat - the son of newly elected U.S. Rep. Gwen Moore, was booked on charges of criminal damage to property for allegedly slashing tires on 20 vans and cars rented by the Republican Party for use in Election Day voter turnout efforts.

    Daniel David Rostenkowski - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Illinois from 1959 to 1995. Indicted on 17 felony charges- pleaded guilty to two counts of misuse of public funds and sentenced to seventeen months in federal prison.

    Melvin Jay Reynolds - U.S. Representative from Illinois from 1993 to 1995. Convicted on sexual misconduct and obstruction of justice charges and sentenced to five years in prison.

    Charles Coles Diggs, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Michigan from 1955 to 1980. Convicted on eleven counts of mail fraud and filing false payroll forms- sentenced to three years in prison.

    George Rogers - Democrat - Massachusetts State House of Representatives from 1965 to 1970. M000ember of Massachusetts State Senate from 1975 to 1978. Convicted of bribery in 1978 and sentenced to two years in prison.

    Don Siegelman - Democrat Governor Alabama - indicted in a bid-rigging scheme involving a maternity-care program. The charges accused Siegelman and his former chief of staff of helping Tuscaloosa physician Phillip Bobo rig bids. Siegelman was accused of moving $550,000 from the state education budget to the State Fire College in Tuscaloosa so Bobo could use the money to pay off a competitor for a state contract for maternity care.

    John Murtha, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania. Implicated in the Abscam sting, in which FBI agents impersonating Arab businessmen offered bribes to political figures; Murtha was cited as an unindicted co-conspirator

    Gerry Eastman Studds - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1973 to 1997. The first openly gay member of Congress. Censured by the House of Representatives for having sexual relations with a teenage House page.

    James C. Green - Democrat - North Carolina State House of Representatives from 1961 to 1977. Charged with accepting a bribe from an undercover FBI agent, but was acquitted. Convicted of tax evasion in 1997.

    Frederick Richmond - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New York from 1975 to 1982. Arrested in Washington, D.C., in 1978 for soliciting sex from a minor and from an undercover police officer - pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor. Also - charged with tax evasion, marijuana possession, and improper payments to a federal employee - pleaded guilty.

    Raymond Lederer - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1977 to 1981. Implicated in the Abscam sting - convicted of bribery and sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000.

    Harrison Arlington Williams, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Senator from New Jersey from 1959 to 1970. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Allegedly accepted an 18% interest in a titanium mine. Convicted of nine counts of bribery, conspiracy, receiving an unlawful gratuity, conflict of interest, and interstate travel in aid of racketeering. Sentenced to three years in prison and fined $50,000.

    Frank Thompson, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New Jersey from 1955 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting, convicted on bribery and conspiracy charges. Sentenced to three years in prison

    Michael Joseph Myers - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1976 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting - convicted of bribery and conspiracy; sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000; expelled from the House of Representatives on October 2, 1980.

    John Michael Murphy - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New York from 1963 to 1981. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Convicted of conspiracy, conflict of interest, and accepting an illegal gratuity. Sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000.

    John Wilson Jenrette, Jr - Democrat - U.S. Representative from South Carolina from 1975 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Convicted on bribery and conspiracy charges and sentenced to prison

    Neil Goldschmidt - Democrat - Oregon governor. Admitted to having an illegal sexual relationship with a 14-year-old teenager while he was serving as Mayor of Portland.

    Alcee Lamar Hastings - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Florida. Impeached and removed from office as federal judge in 1989 over bribery charges.

    Marion Barry - Democrat - mayor of Washington, D.C., from 1979 to 1991 and again from 1995 to 1999. Convicted of cocaine possession after being caught on videotape smoking crack cocaine. Sentenced to six months in prison.

    Mario Biaggi - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New York from 1969 to 1988. Indicted on federal charges that he had accepted bribes in return for influence on federal contracts.Convicted of obstructing justice and accepting illegal gratuities. Tried in 1988 on federal racketeering charges and convicted on 15 felony counts.

    Lee Alexander - Democrat - Mayor of Syracuse, N.Y. from 1970 to 1985. Was indicted over a $1.5 million kickback scandal. Pleaded guilty to racketeering and tax evasion charges. Served six years in prison.

    Bill Campbell - Democrat - Mayor of Atlanta. Indicted and charged with fraud over claims he accepted improper payments from contractors seeking city contracts.

    Frank Ballance - Democrat - Congressman North Carolina. Pleaded guilty to one charge of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and money laundering related to mishandling of money by his charitable foundation.

    Hazel O'Leary - Democrat - Secretary of Energy during the Clinton Administration - O'leary took trips all over the world as Secretary with as many 50 staff members and at times rented a plane, which was used by Madonna during her concert tours.

    Lafayette Thomas - Democrat - Candidate for Tennessee State House of Representatives in 1954. Sheriff of Davidson County, from 1972 to 1990. Indicted in federal court on 54 counts of abusing his power as sheriff. Pleaded guilty to theft and mail fraud; sentenced to five years in prison.

    Mary Rose Oakar - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Ohio from 1977 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor charges of funneling $16,000 through fake donors.

    David Giles - Democrat - candidate for U.S. Representative from Washington in 1986 and 1990. Convicted in June 2000 of child rape.

    Gary Siplin - Democrat state senator Florida- found guilty of third-degree grand theft of $5,000 or more, a felony, and using services of employees for his candidacy.

    Edward Mezvinsky - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Iowa from 1973 to 1977. Indicted on 56 federal fraud charges.

    Lena Swanson - Democrat - Member of Washington State Senate in 1997. Pleaded guilty to charges of soliciting unlawful payments from veterans and former prisoners of war.

    Abraham J. Hirschfeld - Democrat - candidate in Democratic primary for U.S. Senator from New York in 1974 and 1976. Offered Paula Jones $1 million to drop her sexual harassment lawsuit against President Bill Clinton. Convicted in 2000 of trying to hire a hit man to kill his business partner.

    Henry Cisneros - Democrat - U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development from 1993 to 1997. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of lying to the FBI.

    James A. Traficant Jr. - Member of House of Representatives from Ohio. Expelled from Congress after being convicted of corruption charges. Sentenced today to eight years in prison for accepting bribes and kickbacks.

    John Doug Hays - Democrat - member of Kentucky State Senate from 1980 to 1982 Found guilty of mail fraud for submitting false campaign reports stemming from an unsuccessful run for judge. He was sentenced to six months in prison to be followed by six months of home confinement and three years of probation.

    Henry J. Cianfrani - Democrat - Pennsylvania State Senate from 1967 to 1976. Convicted on federal charges of racketeering and mail fraud for padding his Senate payroll. Sentenced to five years in federal prison.

    David Hall - Democrat - Governor of Oklahoma from 1971 to 1975. Indicted on extortion and conspiracy charges. Convicted and sentenced to three years in prison.

    John A. Celona - Democrat - A former state senator was charged with the three counts of mail fraud. Federal prosecutors accused him of defrauding the state and collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars from CVS Corp. and others while serving in the legislature. Celona has agreed to plead guilty to taking money from the CVS pharmacy chain and other companies that had interest in legislation. Under the deal, Celona agreed to cooperate with investigators. He faces up to five years in federal prison on each of the three counts and a $250,000 fine

    Allan Turner Howe - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Utah from 1975 to 1977. Arrested for soliciting a policewoman posing as a prostitute.

    Jerry Cosentino - Democrat - Illinois State Treasurer. Pleaded guilty to bank fraud - fined $5,000 and sentenced to nine months home confinement.

    Joseph Waggonner Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Louisiana from 1961 to 19 79. Arrested in Washington, D.C. for soliciting a policewoman posing as a prostitute

    Albert G. Bustamante - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Texas from 1985 to 1993. Convicted in 1993 on racketeering and bribery charges and sentenced to prison.

    Lawrence Jack Smith - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Florida from 1983 to 1993. Sentenced to three months in federal prison for tax evasion.

    David Lee Walters - Democrat - Governor of Oklahoma from 1991 to 1995. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor election law violation.

    James Guy Tucker, Jr. - Democrat - Governor of Arkansas from 1992 to 1996. Resigned in July 1996 after conviction on federal fraud charges as part of the Whitewater investigation.

    Walter Rayford Tucker - Democrat - Mayor of Compton, California from 1991 to 1992; U.S. Representative from California from 1993 to 1995. Sentenced to 27 months in prison for extortion and tax evasion.

    William McCuen - Democrat - Secretary of State of Arkansas from 1985 to 1995. Admitted accepting kickbacks from two supporters he gave jobs, and not paying taxes on the money. Admitted to conspiring with a political consultant to split $53,560 embezzled from the state in a sham transaction. He was indicted on corruption charges. Pleaded guilty to felony counts tax evasion and accepting a kickback. Sentenced to 17 years in prison.

    Walter Fauntroy - Democrat - Delegate to U.S. Congress from the District of Columbia from 1971 to 1991. Charged in federal court with making false statements on financial disclosure forms. Pleaded guilty to one felony count and sentenced to probation.

    Carroll Hubbard, Jr. - Democrat - Kentucky State Senate from 1968 to 1975 and U.S. Representative from Kentucky from 1975 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to conspiring to defraud the Federal Elections Commission and to theft of government property; sentenced to three years in prison.

    Joseph Kolter - Democrat - member of Pennsylvania State House of Representatives from 1969 to 1982 and U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1983 to 1993. Indicted by a Federal grand jury on five felony charges of embezzlement at the U.S. House post office. Pleaded guilty.

    Webster Hubbell - Democrat - Chief Justice of Arkansas State Supreme Court in 1983. Pleaded guilty to federal mail fraud and tax evasion charges - sentenced to 21 months in prison.

    Nicholas Mavroules - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1979 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to charges of tax fraud and accepting gratuities while in office.

    Carl Christopher Perkins - Democrat - Kentucky State House of Representatives from 1981 to 1984 and U.S. Representative from Kentucky from 1985 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to bank fraud in connection with the House banking scandal. Perkins wrote overdrafts totaling about $300,000. Pleaded guilty to charges of filing false statements with the Federal Election Commission and false financial disclosure reports. Sentenced to 21 months in prison.

    Richard Hanna - Democrat - U.S. Representative from California from 1963 to 1974. Received payments of about $200,000 from a Korean businessman in what became known as the "Koreagate" influence buying scandal. Pleaded guilty and sentenced to federal prison.

    Angelo Errichetti - Democrat - New Jersey State Senator was sentenced to six years in prison and fined $40,000 for his involvement in Abscam.

    Daniel Baugh Brewster - Democrat - U.S. Senator from Maryland. Indicted on charges of accepting illegal gratuity while in Senate.

    Thomas Joseph Dodd - Democrat - U.S. Senator from Connecticut. Censured by the Senate for financial improprieties, having diverted $116,000 in campaign and testimonial funds to his own use

    Edward Fretwell Prichard, Jr. - Democrat - Delegate to Democratic National Convention from Kentucky. Convicted of vote fraud in federal court in connection with ballot-box stuffing. Served five months in prison.

    Jerry Springer - Democrat - Resigned from Cincinnati City Council in 1974 after admitting to paying a prostitute with a personal check, which was found in a police raid on a massage parlor.

    Guy Hamilton Jones, Sr. - Democrat -Arkansas State Senate. Convicted on federal tax charges and expelled from the Arkansas Senate.

    Daniel Flood - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1945 to 1947, 1949 to 1953 and 1955 to 1980. Pleaded guilty to a conspiracy charge involving payoffs and sentenced to probation.

    Otto Kerner, Jr - Democrat - Governor of Illinois from 1961 to 1968. While serving as Governor, he and another official made a gain of over $300,000 in a stock deal. Convicted on 17 counts of bribery, conspiracy, perjury, and related charges. Sentenced to three years in federal prison and fined $50,000.

    George Crockett, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Michigan. Served four months in federal prison for contempt of court following his defense of a Communist leader on trial for advocating the overthrow of the government.

    Cornelius Edward Gallagher - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New Jersey from 1959 to 1973. Indicted on federal charges of income tax evasion, conspiracy, and perjury

    Mark B. Jimenez - Democrat fundraiser - sentenced to 27 months in prison on charges of tax evasion and conspiracy to defraud the United States and commit election financing offenses.

    Bobby Lee Rush - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Illinois. As a Black Panther, spent six months in prison on a weapons charge.

    Bolley ''Bo'' Johnson - Democrat - Former Florida House Speaker - received a two-year term for tax evasion.

    Roger L. Green - Democrat - Brooklyn Democrat Assemblyman. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor for accepting travel reimbursement for trips he did not pay for and was sentenced to fines and probation.

    Gloria Davis - Democrat - Bronx assemblywoman. Pleaded guilty to second-degree bribe-taking.

    Lesbian Nazi hookers, abducted by UFO's and forced into weight loss programs; all next week, on Countdown.

    RECORDS SET during the Clinton Administration:

    - The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
    - Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
    - Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
    - Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
    - Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
    - First president sued for sexual harassment.
    - First president accused of rape.
    - First first lady to come under criminal investigation
    - Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
    - First president to establish a legal defense fund.
    - First president to be held in contempt of court
    - Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
    - Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
    - First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court

    Regarding the Foley resignation.....

    hit_escape is playing in the hypocricy angle, and that's fine. I would like to discuss some LOGICAL arguments.

    I PERSONALLY believe what Rep. Foley did was disgusting and should be prosecuted for it. I also believe homosexual activity is also wrong.....and yes I am a born-again Christian (I better duck because I know I'm going to get it now from many posters on this site....) I base my opinions above on my reading of the Bible.

    It is well known in the media that it is the opinion of many gay activist groups that people know they are gay prior to adolescence. In fact, advocacy to allow the encouragement of children with same sex attraction admissions is pushed to as young as 3 years of age.

    In some European countries, groups advocate that 12 year-olds should be able to consent to sexual activity. And it is well known that for years both heterosexual and homosexual pornography has often catered to adolescent fantasies.

    Previously, the psychiatric community grouped homosexuality with other "paraphilias" (preference for or obsession with unusual sexual practices) such as pedophilia, sadism, masochism, fetishisms, etc. This was changed over thirty years ago. However, as psychiatrists and mental health experts continue to modify the DSM (the diagnositc guide to psychiatric illness) some are advocating eliminating pedophilia and fetishes. They say sexual preferences are NOT abnormal or a sign of psychiatric illness. These proclivities, according to some, are hard wired in the brain of people just as powerfully as heterosexual or homosexual proclivities.

    That being said, NAMBLA and others in the homosexualy advocacy community have been saying for years that adolescent men and women (I would still say, "boys and girls" but I am just using their line of argument), should be allowed to participate in healthy sexual activity.

    What age should they be able to consent? With whom? Only someone their own age? Down to 12 or 13, younger? Up to 18 or 21 or 30, older? Hey liberals out there.....what's your answer?

    I would say that you have to be 18 years old to consent to sex, and if someone over 18 asks for or has sex with someone under 18, they should be charged with a crime. Attraction to adolescents is abnormal and is wrong to act on it. Mr. Foley should be put in jail and if the Republicans lose the house by one seat....oh well, too bad.

    However, I think Barney Frank should be in jail for his activities with a male prostitute but I know this country is now accepting of such public behavior and that's the way it is. I accept it and live my life.

    Let me just say that I am not going to respond to any hateful replies. I do not think I said anything hateful and trust that if you disagree with my opinion about this issue, you will simply state your opinion and allow me mine.

    RECORDS SET during the Clinton Administration:

    Posted by: Bill Clinton's Legacy at September 30, 2006 01:11 PM

    Your current leader will have his own list before it's all said and done.

    just a small example

    -911 under his leadership

    -Katrina cleanup disaster under his leadership

    -2700 dead and still counting under his leadership


    This conversation has really degenerating. It is seems some leftists want this post completely about Mark Foley, even though Olberman concentrated on plugging the Woodward book, flogging Fox, and flogging George Allen. My guess is Olbermann figured the Anti-Bush, Anti-Fox was more important. Also this story broke late in the day so there weren't a lot salacious details availible.

    My guess he'll really start flogging the story next week when it starts leaving the news cycle. I don't give much heed to the idea that he "downplayed" the story because he did may have engage similar behaviour. (The Glass House Effect.) The fact that he keeps ripping George Allen after he himself called Chris Wallace (who is of Jewish Extraction) a monkey, suggests he has no shame.

    I wonder what the post about Foley's work on Child Predator legislation was supposed to say? Naturally, we want people to live up to the values they promote. It does not seem to me desirable that we shape policy according to our secret vices.

    Olbermann's is appalling, that's why weren't here... but I don't see a shred of convincing evidence that he's an anti-semite.

    .....and yes I am a born-again Christian (I better duck because I know I'm going to get it now from many posters on this site....) I base my opinions above on my reading of the Bible.


    Posted by: cee at September 30, 2006 01:15 PM

    I still don't understand how born again christians feel so oppresed in this country. You have the freedom to believe and practice your faith but you don't have the freedom to legislate it into law. Yes your religion is a big influence on your politics. That's fine. I want it to stay that way. Our laws are based upon the influence of many factors. What your reading of the bible is might not be somebody elses. We can all agree on basic laws of respecting dignity and protection from people who would do us harm. Do you want to have the catholic vs. protestant fight? Do we need that? I can't see in Jesus teachings anything really that you aren't free to do right now, without having the ten commandments posted in every courthouse. I do not want to live under moses's laws. do you?

    1 person from each side listed a bunch of disgraced politicians. I didn't read the list, but I agree there are alot of disgraceful politicians.

    I'm sure there are plenty of good politicians too. Well at least a few. The nature of that business being so expensive, makes it somewhat impossible not to sell your soul to some special interest.

    Unless of course you are totally rich. If I was totally rich, I definitely wouldn't want to be in politics as people are always saying mean things about you.

    Back to why I am here today. I think KO is a really mean person. I might be a tiny bit overweight now as I am older, but calling me fat would by no means hurt my feeelings. But, I have seen many overweight people burst into tears when people call them fat, piggie, whatever. It's just straight up a mean thing to do.

    If KO's show wasn't on a news channel, or wasn't supposed to be about news, he would still be a mean person. The fact that MSNBC condones and encourages his behavior, I think it is time someone calls for a boycott of his sponsors.

    Does anyone have a list of MSNBC sponsors? Not just for KO show. I call for a boycott of MSNBC as they obviously condone his behavior. Again although I'm not really overweight, nor ever have been, I think KO went over the line.

    go to boycottliberalism.com
    "I do not want to live under moses's laws do you?"
    if you meant the ten commandments then yes- they were originally the basis for law in this country . I would rather live under the law of Moses than have our courts use European and other foreign law. Do you want to live under EU law or international law how about UN law?I don't and I won't.
    many folks here make some pretty big mistakes in their broad assumptions. The left wingers find it real easy to pigeonhole and stereotype conservatives and religious folks yet react hysterically in defense of certain lifestyles and causes they feel self appointed to defend.
    Religious folks feel persecuted by liberals and lunatics like Olbermann who constantly make fun of anything to do with organized religion yet their church of reform liberalism and socialism is off bounds to criticize under their own enforced version of censorship called politcal correctness. The left can whine all they want but just like their hero olbermann they will not take any critcism and certain speech is forbidden.
    If we are going to come to any sense of equity in this coutry them maybe we need to declare liberalism or progressivism or whatever they are calling it this week, a religion too and have the same kind of impositions imposed on the left as the left imposes on the right. If we really need to separate church and state then we need to separate liberalism and state too. We definately need to separate school and state. Unless we come to some kind of consensus in America we are headed toward another civil war or at least some kind of Balkanization that will split this country into opposing factions.
    now for my mea culpa- I am sorry to the good folks here for even bothering to lower the tone of this board by responding to the little lunatic with the many names. my fault.As you may have been able to deduce by my tone I have a real problem with liberals. But I take responsibilty and I apologize to all the good conservatives and others who deplore olbermann .
    as for my record and things I said all are true. Y I am proud of my service to my country and for fighting certain groups like NABLA- the most despicable of the left wing groups. I don't need to prove anything to anybody and the choice to believe or disbelieve is up to you . It makes no difference to me, my conscience like my record is clear. To all who believe there is no explanation neccessary and to those who don't no explanation is possible.
    I want to thank the person or persons responsible for this website for their good efforts to keep a check on people like olbermann.Amid all the bickering theirs is a thankless job and needs gratitude for a forum to keep liberalism in check. The media claims it is there to keep checks and balances on politics and government but who keeps a watch on these self appointed and unelected watchers. Sites like this do and they do a damn good job of exposing the left wing bias so prevalent in most of self appointed "mainstream" media. My only suggestion to improve the site is to implement some kind of posting security like most political sites now have. login, password etc. Not for censorship of anybody but to alleviate one person posting under multiple names and doing their best to disrupt civil or at least semi civil discourse on the issues and the response to people like olbermann who deliver pure bias opinion as try to pass it off as news.
    happy trails...........

    History Lesson, in your list, you only have about two pedophiles. Repubs are way out in front of Dems on this one.

    Cee, don't confuse being a pedophile with being gay. Many pedophiles are hetrosexual. Pedophilia is a crime plain and simple. Being gay is not.

    From U.C. Davis

    Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..." (p.180).

    Why is this a surprise to anyone?

    Jesus was the original christian pedophile, and child buggery has been a christian tradition ever since.

    hit_escape,

    One study in 1978 with a small n=175 and there as not been any objective evaluation since involving different populations and socieoeconomic input. The problems with the poor study you site includes the term, "regressed heterosexual," a totally rejected term now. Most modern day behavioral scientists think "orientation" is hard wired.

    No one wants to answer the OBVIOUS question why the most frequent form of child abuse is adult male against child male...I am not "confusing" homosexuallity with pedophilia, I am simply questioning why the roots of pedophilia are not seen in terms of gender preferences.

    The Catholic Church Priest scandal is a perfect example. I have read that >90% of the known incidents were priests abusing boys between the ages of 10 and 21. When this is discussed, people immedietly say, "Don't confuse homosexulaity with pedophilia!" Is it not linguistically correct that the priest who exclusively pursues males is a homosexual?
    When the church says this is a problem of homosexuality, people immedietly get all upset.

    By the way, you avoided my questions regarding age of consent.....if you are going to discuss pedophilia it is of paramount importance and you seem to be avoiding it.

    rhabd0mancer: "Jesus was the original christian pedophile, and child buggery has been a christian tradition ever since."

    chapter and verse you pos?


    "I do not want to live under moses's laws do you?"
    if you meant the ten commandments then yes- they were originally the basis for law in this country . I would rather live under the law of Moses than have our courts use European and other foreign law. Do you want to live under EU law or international law how about UN law?I don't and I won't.

    Than you would feel it right that someone who doesn't worship the same God as you has commited a crime. And i covet something of my neighbors its a crime. What is the punishment for adultry? Why only include the ten commandments? How about other laws of Moses like if your daughter is found not to be a virgin, you the father must stone her to death. Where does it end, and who told you Christiand weren't under all those old laws. Your understanding of the old testament should be the basis for our society's legal system. You put a liberal in a corner to defend themselves against religious hypocrites, and then say they are Godless. You couldn't survive your own judgements. Just like the old testament Israelites couldn't.

    well being able to stone liberals with large rocks would be a good idea. It makes much less noise than SMGs. I could very well survive my own judgements but you and your kind couldn't.

    Cee, you knock my 10 second Google search and then rebut it with.."I have read that....." Ummmm... hard for me to rebut that. *Where* did you read "that"?

    Homosexuals prefer one of their own sex. Yes, that means consenting adults. As you cans see from the study, most pedophiles are hetrosexual. Very few homosexuals prey on children. Sorry if that doesn't fit the liturature they are handing out at your church.

    Your age of consent argument isn't really relevant either. If a pedophile makes advances on a person who is above the age of consent, they are guilty of sexual harrassment and should be charged as such. If the child is under the age of consent, they are a pedophile. You can lobby for whatever age of consent you want.

    then tell me why Mr hit-escape most paedophelia invloves underage boys and grown men? is not that same sex? they are both males. Is not paedophelia listed by the APA as a mental disorder just like homosexuality was until the militant homosexual groups forced them to de -list it in the mid 1970's. Now that so called homosexual "marriage" has been legalised in the EU there is a disserted effort to lower the age of consent. slippery slope anyone? watch your step. Liberals like olbermann love to ridicule Rick Santorum because Santorum is smart enough to realize that once homosexuality is legitimized thru so called gay "marriage" then anything will go. if gays can laughingly get married then's what is next on the "toelrance and diversity" road show?
    your final sentence said it all and said it well. The radical homesexual agenda and it's minions will not be satisfied until they normalize and legitimize paedophephelia and then what's next necrophelia, beastiality?

    hit_escape,

    It's interesting to know that I am arguing with someone who does his research on GOOGLE - this must be the Keith Olbyfool School of Journalism technique I have heard so much about.

    I have been aware of the Groth and Birnbaum study since I medical school. We had a course of human sexuality and pedophilia was discussed. The 1978 study is always sited by behavioral scientists to support their contention that homosexuals are no more likely to be attracted to children than heterosexuals. I pointed out the flaws of the study above (which you did not argue with), and I would like for you to get me more research since that almost 30 year old study.....Good luck.

    Another erroneous mainstream "politically correct" view is that child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation because they have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. No study has ever been conducted to prove this theory.

    In addition, the age of consent IS important because when professionals speak of pedophilia they are usually talking about an adult psychological disorder characterized by a preference for PREPUBESCENT children as sexual partners; this preference may or may not be acted upon.

    The term hebephilia is sometimes used to describe adult sexual attractions to adolescents or children who have reached puberty. As a layperson, you automatically call Mr. Foley a pedophile, however clinically the mainstream behaviorists would need more data and probably call him a hebephile. The Catholic Church Scandal was almost entirely homosexual hebephiles.

    I have been in medical practice for 8 years and have seen many adolescent child abuse victims. I have seen 2 pedophiles who were under treatment - they both had attractions to very young children -girls or boys.

    My point to all this is the observation that Rep. Foley was talking to a 16 year-old....not really pedophilia in the clinical sense. Mr. Foley is guilty of having disgusting conversations with an under-age person of THE SAME GENDER.....what do we call that orientation, hit_escape?

    hit_escape,

    By the way, the 90% figure I quoted wasn't actually concerning the Catholic Church issue, it was from a study in 1985 by Paul Cameron - PSYCHOLOGICAL REPORTS. However, it is well known that at least the majority of victims that have come forward from the church scandal are men and of course, we all know that only men can be Catholic priests....

    Please research further....There is a mainstream bias against questioning the pathology of sexual arousal objects because, "anything goes," in our advanced and tolerant society. I am sure you will find many who disagree with me.

    My concern is the logical conclusion of saying, "it is normal to be attracted to whatever you are attracted to." Why not children, teens, animals, violent sex, etc....who can judge?

    As a father, I am scared to death that my children will be the victims of sex predators, like Mr. Foley. No one has seriously addressed the issue that this problem MAY BE associated with general sexual openess and acceptence of previously "taboo" proclivities.

    Cee- you need to get out more. Your source, Paul Cameron is widley discredited.

    "Do Any Studies Claim To Show That Homosexuals Are More Likely To Molest Children?

    One individual has claimed to have data that prove homosexuals to be child molesters at a higher rate than heterosexuals. That person is Paul Cameron. As detailed elsewhere on this site, Cameron's survey data are subject to so many methodological flaws as to be virtually meaningless. Even so, his assertions are often quoted by antigay organizations in their attempts to link homosexuality with child sexual abuse."

    Full text at: http://www.usm.edu/gsa/molestation.txt

    I think you've pretty much revealed your agenda. Have a nice day.

    hit job said:"Cee- you need to get out more. Your source, Paul Cameron is widley discredited."
    dose she need to be as "out" as you are out of the closet? maybe YOU need to take step back. way back.
    discredited by who? the pillow biters association of america- the fag's union? of course the pro homo club is going to discredit anything that shows them for the true degenerate sickos they are. How would they ever recruit?
    of course mr pro gay love hit_escape has no agenda himself but posts thusly:
    I think you've pretty much revealed your agenda. Have a nice day.
    yeah well your agenda has been revealed . But you still cannot have our kids! now be a good little homo and go back to your closet!

    I just wanted to point out to the conservatives who were claiming "we force people to resign when we find out they did wrong," Hastert and Boehner knew months ago about Foley. Will you call on them to resign for covering up Foley's crime?

    Foley will just resign from the republican party and get elected to serve with barney fag in massaschussets.

    I can't believe you godly republicans are standing up for this pedophile. Aren't you supposed to be the party of Morals and Wholesome Family Values?

    hit_escape's agenda is also very obvious. No mention of the differentiation of people who prey on children versus teens....this is what the homosexual advocacy groups hate to be confronted with.

    Sexual predators have different motives and when they prey on "children" (for my definition 0-18 y.o.), one can diagnosis pedophilia and one may not.....this is a fact! The study you so easily dismiss (based on a GOOGLE search, no doubt, that gave you hits from progay sites) assumes that male-male abuse is perpetrated, by definition, by someone with homosexual desires . The progay agenda community dismisses this idea out of hand, and that's it....silence....no more study, no more questioning.....When does science EVER allow such protocol? "We say it, you believe it."

    I'll answer my own question, when the "science" is driven by political forces. It's funny how liberals critisize Bush for taking a stand on embryonic stem cell research and call it "politicizing science," but allow dogma to guide a very important area like child molestation and human sexuality.

    The recidivism rate of these people is so high and NOTHING is being done about it except laws that try to seperate the people from the kids. It is a shame!

    Liberals like hit-escape are so dogmatic in their belief that sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with cild abuse that they blind themselves to basic facts. Again, male-male (victim-criminal) child abuse is the predominant form of adolescent child abuse. Like it or not, it is the truth.

    By the way KOFan, this is not a defence of Rep. Foley but an indictment of our society that allows such behavior between adults and children, even glorifies it in the media (remember the Calvin Klein ads a few years back? Abercrombe & Fitch?) I think Foley should be put in jail for a long time!

    Progay forces around the world want adults to be legally able to proposition children as young as 12. There's that pesky age of censent issue again that hit_escape keeps ducking....Actually, in The Netherlands Mr. Foley would face NO criminal charges for his behavior, the age of consent is 12.

    So keep living in your politically correct society of dogmatic belief liberals....I would like to see OBJECTIVE study into a sad problem in this country that takes the innocence away from children and makes them grow up too quickly. The 16 y.o. victim of Mr. Foley has to now live with the memory of the perverted words from an obvious homosexual who wanted descriptions and pictures. Ugh.

    cild = child censent = consent

    Colbert:

    If you read the NYT article carefully, the leadership claims they did not know the content of the questionable IM's and relied on the Lousianna rep's report that the kid's family did not want further investigation. The actual content that was discovered by the press is what actually pushed Foley to resign...

    If it comes out that Hastert et al knew the nature and perversion of the IM's, I would like to see them lose The House in November, and I am a registered Republican. That has not be shown yet. The NYT has no evidence of a cover-up.

    cee wrote:

    "If you read the NYT article carefully, the leadership claims they did not know the content of the questionable IM's and relied on the Lousianna rep's report that the kid's family did not want further investigation."

    It can't be both because they're mutually exclusive arguments. If it was because there was no evidence of wrongdoing, there would be no need to investigate. Yet when the Rep. Alexander said not to pursue the matter because the parents said so, that tends to indicate that there is something to investigate.

    Add to that that Rep. Alexander went to the head of the NRCC, which is a political entity and has no role in enforcing the policies and procedures of the House, and it smells like Alexander was trying to either: a) protect Foley or b) get the NRCC to start looking for a Republican to replace him if Foley was forced out or resigned.

    "The NYT has no evidence of a cover-up."

    ABC does. To wit:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2514259&page=1

    "A Republican staff member warned Congressional pages five years ago to watch out for Congressman Mark Foley, according to a former page.

    Matthew Loraditch, a page in the 2001-2002 class, told ABC News he and other pages were warned about Foley by a supervisor."

    I suppose it is OK for barney "fag" frank to solicit a young male prostitute and not have to face any consequences right?
    Kennedy can get drunk and drive off a bridge and leave the girl to drown to save his sorry ass but he is still allowed to walk free and serve as a senator.
    Gary Condit can murder one of his staffers and get away like OJ right?
    I guess thatis ok because the democrats are the party of criminals and homosexuals.

    hollow point law,
    Gary Condit murdered Chandra Levy? That's not what the police claim. How would you know more about the case than the people investigating? Condit was defeated by the Democrats in his reelection bid.

    Condit does not matter he probably paid someone to kill her. what about the fag and the murderer? are you going to call for their resignation too or are just republicans liable for their crimes?

    history lesson,
    I didn't read all of your garbage but enough to see you made things up. Rumors printed in right-wing magazines with no proof don't count as crimes. For instance, I could claim you robbed a bank last night. That doesn't mean you did. But according to your theory, it's proof that you're a criminal.

    Clinton's Legacy,
    George Bush has been accused of having a gay affair and being Hitler, among other things. What's your point? Of course, there's a lot of truthful accusations made against Bush. Most made against Clinton came to nothing. Just ask Kenneth Starr. I wonder if he cried when he was writing the Starr Report and had to admit there was no evidence for anything not Monica Lewinsky related.

    riverdog,
    KWilliams called you out again on your military service but you never responded. Why do you only argue with someone who admits to never having served? If you actually served in Vietnam why do you not argue with KWilliams? It's obvious to everyone on this site you never served. You're a liar and a disgrace. You're an embarrassment and a coward.

    hollow point:

    Barney Frank - If you're referring to the Steve Gobie incident, Frank was reprimanded by the House for it. Attempts to expel him from the House or censure him failed. No criminal charges were filed (nor can they be filed now, since the statute of limitations has long since lapsed). Frank won his next election with 66% of the vote and has never been seriously challenged in his district since.

    Ted Kennedy - A Coroner's Inquest ruled the death accidental. A subsequent grand jury investigation refused to return an indictment. Kennedy pled guilty to the only offense he was charged with - leaving the scene of an accident causing injury. He got a two-month suspended sentence. You have a problem with that, then complain that the police and the prosecutors didn't do their job. I won't deny that it was a slipshod investigation, but "slipshod" is not the same as "corrupted".

    still won't answer my questions about barney fag and kennedy will you? these democrats comitted crimes? will you call for them to rsign? why won't you respond to my questions only attack republicans. Is it OK when democrats commit crimes? quit passing the buck and respond to my question.
    Robert Byrd- former Head Klansman from west virginia used the "N" word just a few months ago yet you left wingers go after george Allen's alleged use of the word 30 years ago. Will you call for Byrd to resign?
    why won't you answer my questions? My guess is that you can't because liberals don't like it when their hypocrisy is exposed.

    these men committed crimes why won't you call for their resignations?? Is it only republicans that are accountable.
    sounds like barney fag used his influence as did kennedy to stay in power. Why do massachusssets liberals always give their drunken degenerate politicians a pass?
    Why did clinton pay off those women for their silence after he raped them?

    seems to me like the dog responded you just did not like the answer. i think personally that williams is lying.much of the shit he said was wrong. Like Nicholoson sais- you can't handle the truth.
    williams challenged the dog to a face to face and dog agreed williams never responded. so who is the lying coward?? williams who is also you clobert are lying traitorous faggot.

    Colbert why are you defending that chickenshit liar williams! tell us all why?
    wiliams did not respond to the offer - why? because he is a scared little girl. just like you.

    all I hear from williams/colbert is cluck-cluck-cluck-cluck-cluck. the sound of chickens running from the fox.
    chickens laid an egg and now thy can't take care of it.
    fucking cowards.

    riverdog,
    The Ten Commandments are not the basis for our laws.
    I'm sure you don't know what the Ten commandments are so we'll go through them.

    1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
    We have no laws pertaining to this and never have.

    2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain.
    We've never had a law against this.

    3. Remember though sall keep the Sabbath day.
    We've never had a law requiring this.

    4. Honor thy mother and father.
    This is a good idea but isn't a law.

    5. Thou shalt not kill.
    Killing has been against the law in human society since before the Ten Commandments.

    6. Though shalt not commit adultery.
    This may be the basis for divorce but you won't be arrested for it.

    7. Thou shalt not steal.
    This was illegal prior to the Ten Commandments.

    8. Though shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
    Lying is wrong but not illegal.

    9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.
    Again, it's wrong but not illegal.

    10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.
    Likewise, this isn't illegal.

    There are two of of Ten Commandments which have a basis in our laws and they had a basis in human laws before the Ten Commendments.

    C'mon wiliiams /colbert I am a friend of the dog and I know six other guys who are still alive who served with him and will back him up.
    The dog is getting old but he is still someone who i don't think your really want to piss off. maybe you should apologize then shut up- it would be much better for you.

    colbet don't change the subject - i demand you respond to the other questions I posed and then I will continue to destroy your ten commandments issues.
    resond now to my earlier allegations and tell my why you.
    tell me why williams suddenly shut up-I already know but I wantto hear you say that youa re a lying chickenshit liberal.
    WHY WON"T YOU ANSWER MY QUESTIONS YOU CHICKENSHIT COMMUNIST LIBERAL??
    BECAUSE YOU CAN'T

    THE ONLY REASON THE COMMUNIST LIBERALS HATE RELIGION IS BECAUSE WE WON'T ALLOW THE FAGS TO GET MARRIED.
    ANSWER MY CHALLENGE WILLIAMS ADMIT THAT YOU ARE A LYING SACK OF CHICKENSHIT

    riverdog/hollowpoint,
    Nice name change riverdog. You're getting old? You claimed you served in the early 70's in Vietnam. We all know a "patriotic hero" like you would serve as soon as you could. That would make you 54 maximum. But it sounds like you're pretending to be much older. In fact, I believe you've mentioned being a senior citizen. You weren't smart enough to make sure your dates for your fake service made sense?

    KWilliams essentially retyped much of his earlier response in this thread. You never responded to it. Why not? Now you say he was wrong about much of it. Wrong about what specifically? Did you do a google search for more military terms? You still haven't responded to his posts.

    I don't know who KWilliams is but, unlike you riverdog, not everyone spends 24 hours every day on this site. Some people have lives to live outside of an internet site. I realize that's a foreign concept for you. Of course being on the internet constantly probably helps you get ready for your NAMBLA meetings you talk so much about.

    Actually, in many states there still exists so-called "blue laws" which control when stores can open and were based in the idea of keeping the Sabbath Holy. Really, if you're going to quote "facts" Colbert, make sure you get them right.

    And Colbert? Have you never heard of perjury? That's lying under oath and it's also illegal.

    WHY DO YOU KEEP CHANGING THE SUBJECT MOONBAT??
    WHY WON'T YOU ANSWWER MY QUESTIONS?
    YOU ONLY DO THE TYPICAL MOONBAT THING- YOU LIE AND THEN WHEN YOU GET CAUGHT ON IT ALL YOU DO IS CHANGE THE SUBJECT.
    IF i WERE YOU MOONBAT I WOULD NOT CRITICISE SOMEONE FOR MULTIPLE NAMES- YOU HAVE ABOUT 6 NAMES THAT YOU USE HERE YOURSELF.
    WHY WON'T YOU ANSWER MY ORIGINAL QUESTIONS??

    WHY DON'T YOU ADMIT COLBERT THAT YOUAR WILLIAMS AND BE A MAN AND ANSWER MY QUESTIONS AND APOLOGIZE THEN LEAVE.
    THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE HERE IS THAT YOU ARE EITHER KIETH OLBERMANN HIMSELF OR ONE OF HIS LITTLE DICK POLISHERS AND THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE HERE IS TO DISRUPT THIS WEBSITE.
    BE A AMN FOR ACHANGE AND ANSWER-ADMIT-LEAVE

    WHY DON'T YOU ADMIT COLBERT THAT YOUAR WILLIAMS AND BE A MAN AND ANSWER MY QUESTIONS AND APOLOGIZE THEN LEAVE.
    THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE HERE IS THAT YOU ARE EITHER KIETH OLBERMANN HIMSELF OR ONE OF HIS LITTLE DICK POLISHERS AND THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE HERE IS TO DISRUPT THIS WEBSITE.
    BE A MAN FOR ACHANGE AND ANSWER-ADMIT-LEAVE

    YOU DISSED A DECORATED VETRAN AND YOU NEED TO BE ACCOUTNABLE FOR IT- AND YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUTABLE.
    ANSWER=ADMIT OR LEAVE-NOW!!!!!!!!!
    DO IT YOU LYING CHICKENSHIT MOONBAT

    Brandon,
    "If you meant the ten commandments then yes- they were originally the basis for law in this country."

    I took this to mean the laws of the country (federal) not state laws. I'm not sure how many blue laws would measure up to the Tenth Commendment standard anyway. Maryland's blue law did not mention keeping a Holy Day. I'm not sure how many states specifically mentioned Christianity or the Sabbath. Also, the Post Offices were held open on Sundays against the wishes of evangelicals.

    The Commandment doesn't say "thou shalt not commit perjury." There's a reason perjury is illegal which has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments.
    You're doing a horrible job.

    COLBERT WON'T ANSWER BECAUSE HE CAN'T- HE IS A LTING CHICKENSHIT MOONBAT ANTI- AMERICAN- ANTI -VETRAN TRAITOR WHO ONLY COMES HERE TO DISRUPT CRITICISM OF ONE OF THE WORST MOONBATS IN AMERICA THE OLBYMANN.
    LIKE SCUM ON THE FLOOR MOONBATS DEFEND MOONBATS BUT THEY ARE ALL LIARS WHO ARE ONLY CONCERNED WITH SMEARING REAL AMERICANS WHO WILL NOT STAND FOR THEIR SOCIALIST LIES.
    ACCEPT MY CHALLENGE OR LEAVE

    Johnny Dollar,
    You confirmed that a bunch of people here were the same person when KFK asked you to. Could you please tell riverdog/riverdogger/hollowpoint/whoever else he is that I am not KWilliams or anyone else? I accidentally posted under anonymous a couple times and mentioned it was me below the post.

    THAT'S RIGHT COLBERT YOU LYING FAGGOT TRAITOR IGNORE ME BUT I WON'T GO AWAY UNTIL YOU RESPOND AND THEN LEAVE YOU LITTLE SNOT
    WHY WON'T YOU RESPOND COLBERT- BECASUE YOU ARE A LYING CHICKENSHIT.
    LIBERAL SCUMBAG WON'T ANSWER.
    COLBERT YOU LITTLE FAG WHY WON'T YOU RESPOND
    BECAUSE YOU CAN'T
    YOU LOST AGAIN AND YOU ARE NOT A MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT- LEAVE COMMIE

    hollow point:

    I answered the questions you asked of Colbert. See the post marked "Anonymous Ocotber 1, 10:13 PM"? THERE are your answers.

    Are you happy now?

    riverqueer,
    Did NAMBLA kick you out? Is that why you're so upset? Did a young boy spurn your advances? Why are you so upset?
    Typing with the caps lock on makes you so much smarter by the way.
    You're a decorated veteran now riverqueer? Which decorations would those be? Please lie some more to further prove yourself a despicable fraud. The troops are ashamed of evil scum like you. You're a pathetic loser. I don't doubt you've fantasized many times about being alone in the jungle with a bunch of men. But your sexual fantasies don't mean you served in Vietnam.

    riverdog/hollowpoint,
    Nice name change riverdog. You're getting old? You claimed you served in the early 70's in Vietnam. We all know a "patriotic hero" like you would serve as soon as you could. That would make you 54 maximum. But it sounds like you're pretending to be much older. In fact, I believe you've mentioned being a senior citizen. You weren't smart enough to make sure your dates for your fake service made sense?

    KWilliams essentially retyped much of his earlier response in this thread. You never responded to it. Why not? Now you say he was wrong about much of it. Wrong about what specifically? Did you do a google search for more military terms? You still haven't responded to his posts.

    I don't know who KWilliams is but, unlike you riverdog, not everyone spends 24 hours every day on this site. Some people have lives to live outside of an internet site. I realize that's a foreign concept for you. Of course being on the internet constantly probably helps you get ready for your NAMBLA meetings you talk so much about.

    YEAH RUN COLBERT RUN- AFTER AL THE SHIT YOU STARTED HEAR YOU RUN TO THE MODERATOR FOR PROTECTIONJUST LIKE THE LITTLE GIRL FAG YOU ARE.
    I KNEW YOU HAD NO BALLS COLBERT-WILLIAMS
    YOU ARE A CHICKENSHIT,LIKE ALL LIBERAL MOONBATS
    YTOU AWNT A TISSUE COLBERT SO YOU CAN WIPR YOUR POOR,LITTLE TEARY EYES
    LIKE MOST LEWFT WING LIMP WRISTS YOU CAN DISH IT OUIT BUT YOU CAN'T TAKE IT CAN YOU COLBERT
    IF YOU CAN'T STAND THE HEAT GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN COLBERT- DON'T GO RUNNING NOW TO THE MODERATOR- FIGHT YOUR OWN BATTLES OR DO YOU STILL RUN TO YOU MAOOMY WHEN THINGS GET TOUGH
    DON'T GO AWAY MAD COLBERT-OLIELY-WILLIAMS ANAONYMOUS JUST GO THE FUCK AWAY.
    AW COLBERT SAI HE "ACCIDENTALY" POSTED UNDER THE NAME ANONYMOUS AISN'T THAT CUTE- RUN MAMMA'S BOY RUN
    YOU CAN'T TAKE IT CAN YOU COLBERT WHEN YOU GET CAUGHT ON YOUR BULLSHIT SO YOU GO RUNNING LIKE A LITTLE GIRL WHICH IS WHAT YOU ARE'
    RUN COLBERT RUN

    The post by anonymous at 11:22 pm was by me.

    Oh goodness, all the harrassment from you boys has driven riverdog into some sort of post traumatic stress disorder wig-out.

    riverdog, just go fishing or something relaxing tomorrow. You're scaring us.

    RUN COLBERT RUN WHY DID'NT THE MODERATOR HELP YOU LITTLE GIRL?? YOU STILL WON'T ANSWER MY QUESTIONS OR PRODUCE WILLIAMS.
    COLBERT DON'T YOU HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN COME TO A CONSERBVATIVE WEBSITE AND YELL :FIRE" AND THEN RUN TO THE MODERATOR WHEN YOU GET CAUGHT IN YOU LIES??
    RUN COLBERT RUN
    NOBODY WANTS YOU HERE SCUMBAG SO JUST GO AND LEAVE THIS WEBSITE AND GO TO ONE OF YOUR WHINY LIBERAL MOONBAT WEBSITES WHERE THE MODERATOR CAN DEFEND YOU .
    YOU STILL WON'T ANWER MY QUESTIONS AND i DEMAND YOU DO AND i WILL NOT LEAVE YOUA LONE HERER UNTIL YOU LEAVE
    EVERYTHING YOU SAY , EVERY POST. I WILL PROVE LIKE ALWAYS DOT EHT YOU ARE SPINELESS LYING LITTLE LIBERAL MOONBAT CHICKENSHIT.
    OH PLEASE JONNHY DOLLAR HELP ME HELP ME THIS BIG BAD CONSERVATIVE IS MAKING AFOOL OUT OF MA ENA PROVING I AM A LIAR'
    HEY a--hole WHAT YOU REAP YOU SOW
    GO SNIVEL SOMEHERE ELSE LEFTAR NOBODY WANT YOU HERE OLOIELY-COLBERT-WILLIAMS-ANONYMOUS
    GO AWAY TO SOME LIBERAL SNIVEL SITE
    I PRPOVED YOU LIED YOU LOST NOW GET OVERE IT AND LEAVE-YOU CANNOT WIN

    ONLY COLBERT -OLIELY-WILLIAMS-ANONYMOUS NEED FEAR. YOU CONSERVATIVES ARE GOOD FOLKS . I ONLY ATTACK LYING CHICKENSHITS WHO ATTACK MY HONORABLE DISCHARGE.
    COLBERT I WILL CONTINUE TO GO MIDEVAL ON YOU SORRY LIBERAL AS UNTIL YOU LEAVE WITH YOUR BULLSHIT LIAS
    COLBERT SAYS OHPLEASE JOHNNY DOLLARE PROTECT ME
    WHAT A LITTLE DRESS WAERING BEDWETTER.
    C'MON OLEILLY-COLBERT-WILLIAMS-ANAONYMOUS SHOW ME THAT YOU ARE REAL MAN- YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOU AIN'T
    WAH-WAH- WAH HELP ME JOHNNY DOLLAR HELP ME SAVE ME FROM THE BIG BAD CONSERVATIVE WAH WAH WAH

    riverqueer,
    I'm glad you're always posting on here. Your third-grade education provides us all humor. I shouldn't make fun of inbred retards like you though. Tell us more about your fake militray service. Did you dodge nukes or only mortars?

    ALL THE a--hole POSTS WERE BY YOU SCUMBAG COLBERT AND I KNOW THEY ARE.
    ARE YOU GONNA RUN AGAIN TO JOHNNY DOLLAR TO GET YOU OUT OF THIS ONE- WELL GOOD LUCK BECAUSE THE MIDEVAL SMACKDOWN IS COMING TO YOU IN SPADES ASS-BOY
    YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT AND NOW YOU WHINE AND SNIVEL- OH PLEASE JOHNNY DOLLAR SAVE ME SAVE ME'
    IF YOU WERE NOT SO PATAENTLY PATHETIC YOU WOULD BE FUNNY YOU SORRY LYING COMMIE LEFTIST MOONBAT
    BETTER GET SOME MORE TISSUES COLBERT I HAVE NOT YE BEGUN TO FIGHT YOU LITTLE LYING a--hole

    riverqueer,
    Even Cecilia is scared of you now. Not as scared as the little boys you, well you know.

    WHA WAH SAVE ME MR MODERATOR SAVE ME- MY DRESS IS ALL DIRTY NOW- WAH
    CLOBERT YOU DAYS ARE UP HERE YOU GOT CAUGHT LYING AND YOU STILL WON'T BE A MAN
    I WON'T READ ANYMORE OF YOUR STUPID POSTS WHEN I SEE YOUR NAME THIS IS WHAT YOU WILL GET FROM NOW ON UTIL YOU ELAVE
    SAVE ME JOHHNY DOLLAR SAVE ME
    HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
    THE WHINEY LITTLE LYING SHITBAG CAN'T TAKE IT
    RUN COLBERT RUN COLBERT RUN COLBERT RUN
    C'MON COLBERT ET AL - LEAVE AND GO TO YOUR FAGGY MOONBAT SITE WHERR THEY WANT YOU
    NOBODY WANTS YOU HERE FAG BOY
    NOBODY WANT S YOUR LIES HERE
    RUN BOY RUN
    SNIVEL TO SOMEONE WHO CARES a--hole

    COLBERT-ANAONYMOUS-WILLIAMS HOW DOES IT FEEL TO WALK AROUND WITH NO TESTICLES IN YOUR SACK?
    IF I WERE YOU I WOULD BE SO EMBARRRASED TO HAVE WHINED TO THE MODERATOR I WOULD NEVER EVER SHOW MY FACE AROUND HERE AGAIN
    NOBODY LIKES YOU ANYWAY AND NOW NOBODY WILL EVER BELIEVE YOU AGAIN.
    WAH WAH SNIVEL BOY DID JOHNNY DOLLAR SAVE YOU FROM THE BIG BAD CONSERVATIVE.
    DRY YOUR LITTLE EYES, PUT ON ANNEW DRESS AND JUST LEAVE
    NOBODY WANT TO HEAR YOUR BULLSHIT ANYMORE
    WAH- WAH HELP ME MR DOLLAR HELP ME
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
    WHINY LITTLE SHIT CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT
    SO WHINY LITTLE SHIT SHOULD LEAVE

    WHA- WAH SAVE ME JOHHNY DOLLAR SAVE ME.
    POOR LITTLE COLBER-OBERMANN-O'LIELEY WILLIAMS GOT TO WHINE.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    DID YOUR POOR LITTLE SUNDAY DRESS GET ALL MESSED UP COLBERTARD/
    LEAVE ASHOLE NOBODY WANTS YOU HERE
    NOW YOU EVEN ARE RUNNING TO CECELIA- SHE WON'T HELP YOU COLBERT- SHE CAN'T SAVE YOU
    THIS IS THE FACE OF MIDEVAL ON YOUR ASS COLBERT GET USED TO IT OR LEAVE NOW WAH SAVE ME JOHHNY DOLLAR SAVE ME
    HAHAHAHAHAH
    LEAVE YOU LITTLE LIMP WRISTED LIBERAL
    BYE BYE COLBERT

    SAVE ME JOHHNY DOLLAR HELP ME CECILIA!!
    SAVE ME
    HAHAHAHAHA
    I LAUGH AT LITTLE MENTAL MIDGETS LIKE YOU COLBERT
    HAVE YOU GOINE TO SOME LIBERAL MOONBAT SITE LIKE A GOOD LITTLE ASSMUNCH??
    WAH SAVE MNE JOHNY DOLLAR
    HAHAHAHAHA
    SNIVEL SNIVEL SNIVEL
    WHERE IS WILLAIMS WITH HIS TALK C'MON SHITHEAP LET'S ROCK AND ROLL
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    NEVER POKE A SLPEEPING GRIZZLY BEAR HE MIGHT GET UP AND TEAR YOU APART. WHICH IOS WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW TO YOU LYING LIBERAL SCUMBAGS
    WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE!

    HEY LIBERASL LIARS THANKS FOR THE WONDERFUL FLASHBACKS................
    IN THE JUNGLE- WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

    WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE BABY!
    COLBERT I KNOW YOU ARE PROBABLY CRYING IN YOUR PILLOW AND PROBABLY BITING IT TOO BUT DON'T BE SO HARD ON YOURSELF LITTLE FELLA
    I KNOW THAT NOBODY REALLY LIKES YOU, THAT YOU ARE YOUNG LAD WITH NO FRIENDS BUT YOU CAN CHANGE ALL THAT.. THERE ARE ANSWERS
    BUT CRYING SAVE ME JOHHNY DOLLAR SAVE ME IS NOT ONE OF THEM HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
    NOW BE A GOOD BOY AND GET YOUR TISSUES AND GO CRYTTO SOMEONE WHO CARES.
    WAH-WAH THE CRY OF A LOST LIBERAL HAHAHAHAHA

    riverqueer,
    Flashbacks to the jungle? You're still pretending to have served in Vietnam? KWilliams proved you never served. Chickenhawk. You outed yourself again by claiming to be your own friend who served with you under a different name. You're a pathetic loser.
    By the way, all your posts look the same anyway. You aren't smart enough to argue with any liberal. You're jealous of me. I understand. I'm better than you.

    OH SAVE ME JOHNY DOLLAR SAVE ME
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
    YOU STILL DON'TGET T DO YOU LITTLE PILLOW BITER. NOBODY IS GOING TO READ YOUR ASHOLE POSTS ANYMORE YOUR DAYS HERE ARE OVER
    ALL YOU ARE GONNA GET IS ME!!!!
    AND i AM NOT GOING TO,LET YOU REST OR POST WITH OUT LAUGHING AT YOU AND REMINDING YOU AND EVERYBODY ELSE WHAT A LYING SNILELING LITLLE FUCK YOU ARE '
    KNOW THIS COLBERT- I WILL NOT STOP UNTIL YOU LEAVE GET USED TO IT YOU SNIVELING LIITLE FUCK

    OH SAVE ME JOHNY DOLLAR SAVE ME
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
    YOU STILL DON'TGET T DO YOU LITTLE PILLOW BITER. NOBODY IS GOING TO READ YOUR ASHOLE POSTS ANYMORE YOUR DAYS HERE ARE OVER
    ALL YOU ARE GONNA GET IS ME!!!!
    AND i AM NOT GOING TO,LET YOU REST OR POST WITH OUT LAUGHING AT YOU AND REMINDING YOU AND EVERYBODY ELSE WHAT A LYING SNIVELING LITTLE FUCK YOU ARE '
    KNOW THIS COLBERT- I WILL NOT STOP UNTIL YOU LEAVE GET USED TO IT YOU SNIVELING LITTLE FUCK

    WAH- AH WAH WAH SAVE MNE OH SAVE ME JOHNNY DOLLAR SAVE ME
    I PROVED YOU ARE ALL BULLSHIT AND A LIAR COLBERT-WIALLIMS-O'LEILY -ANANOYMOUS
    YOU ARE ALIAR AND LITTLE SNIVELING LIBERAL TURD

    ISN'T THAT SPECIAL THE LITTLE PILLOW BITER STILL IS NOT SMART ENOUGH TO TAKE A HINT AND LEAVE
    DID JOHNNY DOLLAR AND CECILIA SAVE YOI CLOBER-WILLIAMS-ANAONYMOUS
    THIS IS ONLY THE VERY BEGINING OF THE HELL I AM GOING TO INFLICT ON YOU HERE ON THIS WEBSITE
    YOU HAD BETTER GO WHILE YOU HAVE THE CHANCE LITTLE PILLOW BITER BECAUSE I AM GOING TO MAKE YOU TIME HERE A LIVING HELL.
    SAVE ME OH SAVE NE COLBERT WILLIAMS WRITES
    WELL ASHOLE YOU MADE YOU BED NOW LIE IN IT- GET IT COLBERT LIE LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO
    HELP NME JONNY DOLLAR HELP ME....AHHHHHHHH
    KEEP SNIVELING LEFTARD NOBIDY WANTS YOU HERE
    WE ALL HATE YOU

    riverqueer,
    I guess you were in the military. I found an article about you.
    http://www.newsradio88.com/pages/36403.php?contentType=4&contentId=143027

    riverqueer,
    What is a pillow biter? You sure know a lot about it. Did you learn about it at your NAMBLA meetings?

    COLBERT-WILLAINMS TOOK TIME OUT TONIGHT FROM TAKING IT IN THE ASS TO GRACE US ALL WITH HIS INTELLIGENT AND STIRRING RENDTION OF "PILOW BITING IN THE RAIN' ACCOMPIANIED BY HIS ALTER EGO THE HARDENED BATTLE VETRAN WHO LIVES IN HIS MIND WILLAMS- LETS ALL GIVE A SITIING OVATION TO THE LITTLE GIRLY-BOU CLAP-CLAP-CLAP
    DID THE MODERATOR SAVE YOU WILLIAMS COLBERT??
    ARE YOOU OK KNOW??
    DID YOUR PANTIES GET STAINED??
    HAHAHAHA
    LITTLE FUCKING a--hole CAN'T TAKE IT' DOES YOUR HEAD FEEL LIKE IT SOING TO EXPLODE' DO YOU WANT TO GO JUMP??? YOU WOULD BE FREE- FREE
    SVA EME JOHNNY DOLLAR SAVE ME
    GET USED TO IT a--hole THIS IS ONLY A BEGINNING
    AND THE END OF COLBERT.
    WAH- WAH SAVE ME JOHHNY DOLLAR SAVE MEEEEEEEEEEE.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    YOU ARE A PILOW BITER COLBERT- A LITTLE SNIVELING FAG LIAR WITH MANY NAMES WHO LIOES AND THEN GOES RUNNING TO JOHHNY DOLLAR TO SAVE HIM
    SAVE ME SAVE ME
    YOU ARE A PILLOW BITER YOU LITTLE FAG AND YOU KNOW WHAT A PILOW BITER IS BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE.
    A LOSER HOMO WHO HAS TO COME TO A CONSERVATIVE WEBSITE TO SHOW WHAT A LITTLE PILLOW BITER HE IS
    GOOD NOW WE ALL KNOW WHAT A FAGGOT YOU ARE YOU CAN GO NOW
    DID JOHNNY DOLLAR SAVE YOU?

    riverqueer,
    Why don't you go back to posting under "riverdog?" You must have a truly pathetic life (even more pathetic than I thought) if you plan on stalking people online. At least I'll get a lot of laughs at your expense. You're a simpleton and beneath me. I'm sorry your life is miserable and you hate yourself.

    riverbitch,
    "YOU KNOW WHAT A PILOW BITER IS BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE."
    I don't know but you obviously do. By your logic that means you're a pillow biter. Nice job jackass.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAA COLBET POSTED AGAIN AIN'T THAT JUST CUTE- I SEE JOHNNY DOALLR DID NOT SAVE YOU- YOU ARE STILL AROUNG TROLLING FOR MORE SYMPATHY- HOW DOES IT FELL TO BE A LYING LITTLE TWERP- DID YOUR BIG BAD ALTER ESO WILLIAMS GET SCARED?? WHE'S O'LIELEY AND AL THE OTHER PSEUDONYMS YOU POSTED UDER.
    MAYBE WE CAN JUST CAKLL YOU SYBIL- LIKE TH WOMAN WHO HAD MUTLIPLE PERSONALITIES
    THAT WAS SOOOO FUNNY BEFORE WHEN YOU WHINED FOR JOHHNY DOLLAR TO SAVE YOU AND THEN REACHED OUT TO CECELIA- DID YOU THINK THAT THEY COULD SAVE YOU??
    IN THE JUNGLE -WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE COLBERT-WIALLIAMS
    BRAVE LITTLE WILLIAMS WHERE IS HE TONIGHT WITH HIS OFFERS ?? MUSTA GON BACK TO THE HOME OR IS THAT HOMO?
    PILLOW BITER SYBIL- YEAH I LIKE THAT - THAT IS WHAT I WILL CAL YOU FROM NWO ON
    DO YOU LIKEIT??
    YOU HAD BETTER LIKE IT
    PILLOW BITER SYBIL
    HAHAHAA
    SAVE ME JOHNNY DOLLAR SAVE ME- MAN YOU ARE ONE LITTLE PAHTETIC SNIVELER/
    AREN'T YOU EMABARRASSED TO EVEN SHPW YOUR FACE AROUND HERE???
    SAVE ME SAVEE THE POOR LITTLE PILLOW BITER SYBIL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA

    I NEVER RUN AND I NEVER LOSE SYBIL THE PILLOW BITER SO GET USED TO THIS MILD INTRODUCTION TO THE HELL THAT WILL BECOME OUR LIFE HERE.
    DID YOU GET SAVED YET BY JOHHNY DOLLAR???
    HAHAHAHAHA
    POOR SYBIL THE PILLOW BITER NOBODY LIKES HIM

    riverqueer,
    There probably isn't much room in your mommy's basement to run. The thing is riverqueer, unlike you, I and most posters don't have our lives here. I understand you sit in your mommy's basement all day and have no human contact outside of the internet. But I, and I assume most posters here, have families and friends and jobs. That is our life. This is something we do on the side.

    SYBIL! SYBIL IS THAT YOU SYBIL?? I SEE YOU POSTED UNDER THE NAME COLBERT BUT YOUR NBAME IS NOT COLBERT ANYMORE IT IS SYBIL THE PILLOW BITER.
    ARE YOU GOING TO CRY TO THE MODERATOR AGAIN SYBIL??
    DO YOU THINK THEAT THEY WANT YOU HERER SYBIL
    POOR PILLOW BITER WITH THE ISP# OOOPS
    WAHWAH- SAVE ME JOHNNY DOLLAR SAVE ME
    AREN'T YOU EMABARRASED TO EVEN POST HER ANYMORE??
    WAH WAH SAVE ME SAYS SYBIL THE PILLOW BITER

    SYBIL YOUARE STILL HERE HOW NOCE!! WHAT DID YOU SAY THIS TIME PILLOW BITER?
    DID YOU WHINE AND CRY TO THE MODERATOR FOR HELP YOU LITTLE LIMP WRIST??

    I WANT TO APOLOGIZE FOR PRETENDING TO BE IN THE MILITARY. I'M A GUTLESS COWARD AND LIKE ALL GUTLESS COWARDS ONLY TALK A BIG GAME. I'M AN INTERNET TOUGH-GUY WHO WOULD NEVER DARE SAY A WORD TO ANYONE IN REAL LIFE. I LIVE IN MY MOMMY'S BASEMENT AND COLLECT WELFARE. I'M A HIGH SCHOOL DROPOUT AND NEVER MANAGED TO GET A REAL JOB. I PRETEND TO BE A MILITARY MAN SO PEOPLE WILL RESPECT ME. NO ONE RESPECTS ME IN REAL LIFE. I'M A SAD, MISERABLE LONELY PATHETIC LOSER WHO DESPERATELY NEEDS ATTENTION. PLEASE LIKE ME. NO ONE ELSE DOES. I NEVER SERVED IN THE MILITARY AND AM SORRY FOR MY LIES.

    hollow point law/riverdog,
    I see you decided to come clean. Doesn't that feel better admitting your lies and telling the truth?

    riverqueer,
    It's been nice playing but I have work in the morning, unlike you.

    HEY SYBIL I AM RETIRED FROM MY GOVERNMENT JOB AND HAVE ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO DO THISD THAT I WANT. UNLESS I GO TO THE SHOOTING RANGE OR GO FISHING I ACN SIT HERE FOR DAYS AND PROVE WHAT LYING LIBERAL TRAITOROUS a--holeS SCUMNABGS LIKE YOU ARE- IT'S MY NEW HOBBY/
    I CAN SIT AND WATCH TV WITH MY LITTLE SECURE LAPTOP AND PROVE WHAT AN a--hole YOU ARE- I CAN TAKE DAYS- I NVER GET TIRED OR BORED FIGHTING THE LIBERAL SCUMBAGS LIKE YOU-NEVER
    WITH MY NEW SATELLITE CONNECTION NOW I CAN TAKE MY LAPTOP PRETTY MUCH ANYWHERE AND MAKE A FOOL OF YOU
    BECAUSE YOU MAKE IT SO EASY SYBIL YOU ,LITTLE PILLOW BITING FAG.
    STILL CRYING FOR HELP FROM JOHNNY DOLLAR??
    THAT WAS RICH AND YOU'LL NEVER FORGET WITH ME AROUND TO REMIND YOU
    YOU SEE I DON'T GIVE IN AND I WON'T GIVE UP
    YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO POST HERE EVER WITHOUT ME BADGERING. CRITICIZING AND ALLOWING YOU TO FORGETTHAT YOU ARE AHINING LITTLE LIAR
    WAH WAH SYBIL THIS IS YOUR NEW LIFE HERE ON THIS WEBSITE HOPE YOU ENJOY IT AND TELL YOUR CHICKENSHIT ALTER EGO WILLAIMS I SAID HELLO AND THAT HE IS A CHICKENSHIT TOO

    SEE I KNEW YOU WOULD FOLD AND LEAVE LIKE MOST LITTLE PILLOW BITERS YBIL/ BUT REST ASSURED THAT I WILL BE WAITING FOR YOU WHWN AND IF YOU ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO REUTRN- BE SURE TO BITE THAT PILLOW GOOD WHEN YOU TAKE IT UP THE ASS TONIGHT FAGBOY.
    SWEET DREAMS a--hole
    i JUST GOTTA LAUGH AGAIN ABOUT YOU WHINING TO JOHHNY DOLLAR THAT JUST MADE MY NIGHT.
    BYE BYE SYBIL

    *yawn*

    How about we get back to the topic *at hand*, or will we just be content to let the troll wear himself out before continuing?

    MORE WHINING SHIT FROM SYBIL NO DOUBT
    HY WE'L BE ACLE TO GET BACK ON TOPIC AS SOON AS a--holeS LIKE YOU QUIT WHINING TO THE MODERATOR WHEN CAUGHT IN LIES. WE' CAN TALK WHEN THIS BOARD IS PURGED OF THE a--hole WHO ONLY COME HERE TO MAKE TROUBLE. NICE TRY PILLOW BITER.

    Hollow Head, You are in need of a real life. Don't forget to take your Depakote and Seroquel.

    Your leaders are being exposed. You have been defending crooks and political hacks like Hannity and Limbaugh. Keith is frustrating and confounding you. You feel so much anger at him that you have to post comments about his tan and his ratings. It is sad to be so angry. Your bullying friends at fox are not as popular as they were. Orealy is losing his marbles. Limbaugh will have drug related dimentia one day soon. Hannity is a punk. Coulter is getting older and she will start looking like that blonde in the bar you saw the other night with too much make up on and looking desperate for attention. Why are you all so shrill?

    From DRUDGE today....

    The 1983 Congressional page sex scandal was a political scandal in the United States involving members of the United States House of Representatives.

    On July 14, 1983 the House Ethics Committee concluded that Rep. Dan Crane (R-Ill.) and Rep. Gerry Studds (D-Mass.) had engaged in sexual relationships with minors, specifically 17-year-old congressional pages. In Crane's case, it was a 1980 relationship with a female page and in Studds's case, it was a 1973 relationship with a male page. Both representatives immediately pleaded guilty to the charges and the committee decided to simply reprimand the two.

    However, Rep. Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) demanded their expulsion. On July 20, 1983 the House voted for censure, the first time that censure had been imposed for sexual misconduct. Crane, who tearfully apologized for his transgression, lost his bid for reelection in 1984. Studds, however, refused to apologize (even calling a press conference with the former page, in which both stated that they were consenting adults at the time of the relationship and that it was therefore not the business of others to censure them for their private relationship), and he continued to be reelected until his retirement in 1997.

    Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Congressional_page_sex_scandal"

    See how Studds behaved dear liberals....homosexual relationship with a 17yo and he claimed it was consentual....age of consent issue? Anyone? Anyone? Rep. Foley IM'd 16 and 17 tear old boys, why the uproar liberal democrats...I thought people were free to pursue their sexual desires and it wasn't anyone's business.

    See my arguments above and try to address them.....you can't. The hypocrisy of the tolerant left is pathetic.

    Accepting sexual perversion is a slippery slope and down we all go....In 20 years no one will be concerned about, "pedophilia."

    Now I hear that in previous elections the gay press published stories of rumors that Foley WAS GAY OR BISEXUAL. Wow, how interesting. Gay, preying on teenage boys? Sounds like the priest thing. Sounds like what Paul Cameron discussed.
    See above, especially you hit_escape.

    Always point the finger in the past and redirect the attention away from what is going on right now. The liberals did it first. Clinton did it too. This from the party of personal resposibillty. Never takes responsibilty for nothing.

    Actually Colbert it is you who is doing a "horrible job." I poked holes in your little argument re the 10 Commandments in about 10 seconds flat and you really didn't care to be shown up as ill-informed or having looked over pertinent facts now did you? Sorry but those ARE the facts and ignoring them and spinning them to suit your purposes, much like your buddy Olby does isn't a valid argument and it does NOT change the truth.

    On other matters, Codas, I guess if Dems could scream Watergate for 30 years plus, then we get to point out scandals from the 80's and 90's concerning Democrats.

    codas!

    Look at my previous posts.....I want Foley in jail, and if the leadership covered for him for a year.....good bye house and I would be fine with it!

    My argument is the hypocrisy of "tolerant" liberals who portray themselves as open and accepting of people's "lifestyles." Mr. Foley is likely a closeted homosexual and you attack the poor guy....for shame, for shame (sarcasm). Democratic homosexuals like the fine Gerry Studds or Barney Frank are given a pass for doing the same thing!

    Why aren't gay activists coming to Mr. Foley's defense? What about his privacy?

    I'll agree with you that so so called liberal left wants tolerance but they always tell the harshest gay jokes and will pounce on a right wingers "coming out". But you have to admit that someone who is projecting themselves as super moral and then gets exposed for being a mere human is setting themselves up. Why not just drop the super sonic morality thing.

    Foley has now checked into a center for alcholic rehab. Will you support his rehab like you did for Patrick Kennedy or will you condemn him for being a drunk?

    Hypocrisy, Democrat Style
    By Ben Stein

    If there were an Academy Award for Hypocrisy, the surefire favorite for 2006 would be the Democratic Party. Just two recent items make the decision a virtual certainty:

    The Representative Foley "scandal" is really worthy of a whole book on hypocrisy. On the one hand, we have a poor misguided Republican man who had a romantic thing for young boys. He sent them suggestive e-mail. I agree, that's not great. On the other hand, we have a Democratic party that worships ( not likes, WORSHIPS) a man named Bill Clinton who did not send suggestive e-mails as far as we know, but who had a barely legal intern give him oral sex kneeling under his desk in the Oval Office while he talked on the phone to a Congressional Committee Chairman, took great pleasure in putting a cigar in her orifice and then smelling it and tasting it, and having her fellate him when in the sacred seat of power of the world's leading Republic. And the Democrats cheer themselves hoarse for him. His wife has a great shot at being our next President.

    We have a Republican man in Congress who sent e-mails to teenage boys asking them what they were wearing, and an entire party, the Democrats, whose primary constituency, besides the teachers' unions, is homosexual men and lesbian women. I hope it won't come as a surprise to anyone that a big part of male homosexual behavior is interest in young boys. (Take a look at anyone renting Endless Summer next time you are at the video store.)

    Don't get me wrong. My very best friend is gay. I have many gay friends and they are great people. But how the Democrats, the party of gays, can be coming down this hard on a MC who's gay is simply beyond belief. One of my top, favorite congressmen, Barney Frank, is openly gay. Might he say a word in defense of his fellow gay MC right about now? Hmm, I thought not.

    Second, let's look at George Allen. Now, he's a bad guy because he has a Confederate flag. Let's get it straight. To millions of our fellow citizens, this flag has zero to do with racism. It is entirely about respect for a time of unbelievable horror in our society, The Civil War, and respect for men who fought so brilliantly for a cause that was unquestionably -- by decent standards -- a bad cause. Moreover, the stars and bars are a beautiful design and show nothing whatsoever about a person's views about non-whites. No one has suggested that George Allen did anything racist or anti-black in his work in the Senate or as Governor. For him to be judged by what historical relics he owns is pure thought crime.

    But the hypocrisy comes in because the Democrats have as their dean in the Senate an actual former Klansman, Robert Byrd of West Virginia. In my very clear memory, the whole bulk of the senior Democrats routinely called blacks "nigras" and voted against any kind of civil rights laws, right down to anti-lynching laws. And this is the party that presumes to judge a man because he owns a Civil War artifact memorializing incredible American courage? Didn't we just recently have as President a Democrat from Georgia who was inches away from being a segregationist in his early career? And what did his state flag look like when he was governor? And George Allen is being judged by these people?

    Again, for sheer hypocrisy, the winner is: the Democratic Party. Again.

    brandon,

    No, I'll stick with condemning him for being a predator and for trying to blame his lack of judgement and decorum on demon rum...

    If he checked in just because he "got caught", same goes for Kennedy or Gibson, it won't help. It might give them an excuse but unles you want to stop doing whatever for the right reasons they'll continue as soon as the coast is clear. Call me a cynic. I work in a rehab. It's actually the rare person who changes.

    As far as Clinton, barely legal is legal. She was of age and consented. I think Allen has been exposing more than a conferate flag. Redirect.That seems to work huh.


    "It's actually the rare person who changes."


    Well, don't take any chance, Codas.... Maybe you can write Mr. Foley in your capacity of recovery counselor and convey your recent commendation of drug experimentation as a means of mind-expansion...

    Codas,

    You are the lone voice this morning.

    As is true with a lot of thing, some humans like to try to live up to other peoples value system and are not only afraid to be themselves, they put up a tough front so as to not seem tempted or weak. Obviously Foley was gay and if your repressing it, it's gonna bite back sooner or later. I don't advocate for drug use, believe me. But it is another example of humans trying to deny a reality that people use drugs. Carl Sagan wrote papers under another name advocating pot. Of course he was afraid he would be discredited so he didn't use his real name but he said it helped him think creativly. He was a smart guy I think. Many of are greatest artist have used drugs and many have died because. It is a risk. Some humans take risks. I know there is a difference in drugs like crank and crack which will destroy anyones mind, and pot. But we lump all together in one big pile. Alcohol from my view is just as bad a drug as any.

    Codas,

    Well, of course the danger of marijuana very much depends on factoring in the disease concept of addiction along with what we know about cross addiction.

    But then as a recovery couselor...you knew that...

    Sad to say addiction shows up even if you get clean of one thing, something else pops up. Like gambling. some people are just obsessed to do things full out, and if its drugs or alcohol it's big big trouble.

    cee wrote:

    "See how Studds behaved dear liberals....homosexual relationship with a 17yo and he claimed it was consentual....age of consent issue? Anyone? Anyone?"

    Well, in Massachusetts (which would be the law governing the situation) the age of consent is 16. In 1973 (when the offense occurred), there were no exceptions for people who held "power" over another. Therefore, under the law as it could be applied then, it was not illegal.

    Foley's conduct, however, IS illegal because the laws have been revised since 1973 to make what he did illegal under the Federal Code.

    So, according to Anon if it isn't illegal, it's okay. I think if you read my previous posts, I am very clear that I think the behavior is immoral.

    If Anon thinks Studds could be allowed to be a representative after getting a minor drunk and having sex with him then I want to know where Anon lives and keep my kid away from there!

    Predatory sex of any kind is immoral....but Clinton was excused, Studds was excused, Condit was excused, etc based on the "private activity argument."

    It seems these IM's were discovered by journalists and the victim and his parents were not looking to prosecute Foley (I can't understand that either, plus that is illegal itself...anyone who knows of suspicious activity suggestive of pedophilia is obligated to notify the proper authorities).

    My view is that sexual behavior beyond recognized fidelity between a woman and a man is immoral.....and accepting of such leads to all sorts of compromise......slippery slope.

    And my concern about age of consent speaks to exactly what Anon implies.....protect the "adult" sho wants to have "consentual" sex with a minor......gay advocacy groups regularly push for lower ages, even down to 12! Illegality does not excuse immorality.

    Pedophilia seems to be more and more accepted in this world and it is very disheartening.

    Nobody cares about your views on sexual behavior, cee.

    Plenty of gay couples live completely moral lives. I know this fact makes you shake with righteous anger.

    I don't think Cee was advocating against homosexuals. I think Cee was saying that anyone who condones sex between adults and those under the age of consent or under the age of 18, particularly when one of the involved parties is in a position of power is wrong. But if you're advocating that gays should be allowed to prey upon teenagers, then I'm afraid your argument is lost on me KOFan.

    By the way, where do you stand on KO calling Roger Ailes a fat ass and Chris Wallace a monkey?

    Of course I was talking about consenting adults.

    And I believe it's a waste of KO's intellect and wit to call people names.

    cee said:

    "Pedophilia seems to be more and more accepted in this world and it is very disheartening."

    Oh fer cryin' out loud, cee! What PLANET do you live on? No state has lowered their age of consent in years (perhaps even decades). The most common age of consent in the United States is 16. You have a problem with it, talk to your state legislature.

    And as for the rest, Americans as a whole will tolerate a great many things. Pedophilia is not and will never be one of them. Even more socially permissive countries like The Netherlands won't let such things come to pass.

    No, both heterosexual and homosexual couples living together does not make me "shake with rightous anger." I would not do that and I would counsel my children that it is immoral and has negative consequences, but I cannot force anyone to do what is right.

    Just like it doesn't make me angry that people cheat on their taxes, lie to their spouses, cheat on tests, take illegal drugs, beat their children or shoplift, etc. I do think those things are immoral and have negative consequences.

    So, KOFan, your attempt to paint be with the intolerant-right brush is ill-advised. I just want to let you know that I am a happy person, not angry, who also makes poor choices that are wrong.

    "We all have sinned."

    My arguments with regard to sexual proclivities always results in people just not answering the questions. Politically, KOFan seems not to care that some predatory sexual practices are ok with the liberals and some are not. Why?

    What planet do live on, Anon? And what do you base your analysis of our country on? I am sure people 50 years ago thought openly gay relationships would never be accepted by many Americans.

    Do you think that Rep. Foley and Rep. Studds thought it was not unusual to go after adolescent boys?

    James McGreevey is another example...and his memoir is a top seller discussing anonymous sex in NJ Turnpike restrooms.

    I really think our society is going down a road that many do not realize is headed towards total acceptance of ANY sexual proclivity. You may not agree, but give me evidence that it has not happened already over the past 30 years since the "sexual revolution."

    Oh, and by the way, The Netherlands and many Asian/Pacific Rim countries are havens for adolescent prostitutes of both sexes.....age of consent is as low as 12 years old.

    KO fan said:
    "Nobody cares about your views on sexual behavior.
    um yeah actually we do. that is why in every state that has voted on so called gay"marriage" they have rejected .
    another gem of liberal wit:
    "Plenty of gay couples live completely moral lives." yeah right
    that would be like saing that somebody who is a child molestor is still moral and a nice guy he just likes to have sex with little kids.
    or she is moral she just like to have sex with animals on the weekend. degenerates are degenerates. the liberal left has tried to force America to accept as normal that which is not normal. Liberals will not be happy until any kind of sexual perversion is legitimized. If they ever get their way, after they legitimize homosexuality you kids will be next on their agenda. it is happening now in Europe. Now the sexual degenerates are trying fiercly to lower the age of consent.
    there is a real good reason that for 2000 years marriage has been between one man and one woman and now the liberals are trying to change that. and at to what cost to society and the world?

    One more past sin of a liberal democrat that the left is so nicely forgetting today.....

    "Jessie Jackson has added former Chicago democratic congressman Mel Reynolds to the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition's payroll. Reynolds was among the 176 criminals excused in President Clinton's last-minute forgiveness spree. Reynolds received a commutation of his six-and-a-half-year federal sentence for 15 convictions of wire fraud, bank fraud & lies to the Federal Election Commission. He is more notorious; however, for concurrently serving five years for sleeping with an underage campaign volunteer.

    This is a first in American politics: An ex-congressman who had sex with a subordinate won clemency from a president who had sex with a subordinate, then was hired by a clergyman who had sex with a subordinate.

    His new job? Youth counselor."

    FROM
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/reynolds.asp

    At least the republicans get rid of their sexual offenders instead of giving them pardons and new jobs!

    Cee,
    After your endless rants about gays being evil you cite Drudge? I guess if anyone would know about homosexuals Drudge would.

    Evil? Gays evil.?....time and date of the post please, Colbert.....

    Drudge is gay?.......evidence please, Colbert....

    Oh, and Colbert....I love gays, I love straights, and I love you too Colbert.

    It was and is always the behavior that is the problem......

    SYBIL THE PILLOW BITER IS BACK HAHAHA
    DID YOU WHINE AND SNIVEL TO JOHHNY DOLLAR SOME MORE YOU LITTLE PUSSY
    I AM BACK COLBERT-WILLIAMS-O'LIELLEY ANONONY MOUS
    NO I DID NOT FORGET YOU MY WHINY PUKEY LITTLE SNIVELER
    YESTERDAY COLBERT STARTED CRYING TO THE MODERATOR BECAUSE THE BIG BAD CONSERVATIVE KICKED HIS LITTLE PUSSY ASS
    COLBERT WILL NOW BE KNOW HENCEFORTHA DN SYBIL( BECAUSE OF HIS MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES HER) AND PILLOW BITER BECAUSE HE IS A LITTLE QUEER PILLOW NITER
    WAH WAH WAH SAYS COLBERT HELP ME JOHNNY DOLLAR HELP ME
    WHAT A LITTLE PUSSY YOU ARE COLBERT- WHERE IS YOUR FRINED WILLIMAS?? HE IS A PUSSY LIKE YOU OR MAYBE HE IS YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE APUSSY
    WELCOME BACK SYBLIL THE PILLOW BITER-
    WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
    WELCOME TO YOUR OWN PERSONAL HELL
    WAH WAH OH SAVEME JOHNNY DOLLAR SAVE ME
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Was that really written by Ben Stein? I have a lot more faith in his brainpower than to believe it... I don't think anyone as erudite as he is could overlook the fact that what Foley did was against the law, and what Clinton did in the oval office was not. (Lying about it afterward was, sure.) I can't believe Ben would overlook that sort of incredibly pertinent detail.

    As for the two lists that got posted; One is a list of, what, all the pedophile atrocities committed by Repubs, and the other a list of generalized Dem stuff? Apple, Orange, not that I think the Republican party (aside from, perhaps, their leaders) is actually the party of pedophilia, but rebutt a point properly...

    As for Riverdog... wow. Just, wow.

    SYBIL COLEBRT PILLOW BITER THE FIRST
    WHERE ARE YOU WHINY BOY??
    DID JOHHNY DOLLAR SAVE YOU
    HAHAHAHAHAHA
    YOU LITTLE PUSSY LIBERAL
    SAVE YOURSELF DIRTBAG
    YOU WILL GET NO PEACE HERE SYBIL COLBERT THE PILLOW BITER
    NO PEACE
    WAH WAH- SAVE ME JOHHNY DOILLAR SAVE ME BEGS COLBERT THE PILLOW BITER
    HAHAHAHAHAHAA
    NO REST NO PEACE LITTLE PILLOW BITER
    NOT UNTIL YOU LEAVE
    LEAVE NOW PILLOW NITER BOY
    NOBODY LIKES YOU
    NOBODY WANTS YOU
    NOBODY LISTENS TO YOU
    WAH WAH WAH SAYS THE LITTLE PILLOW BITER- THE COLBERT PILLOW BITE NO PEACE COLBERT- NEVER

    Looks like you got someone else more difficult to deal with, Colbert.....good luck.

    Bye, gotta go home.

    Cee,
    You might not want to post articles by right-wingers defending Foley. It makes you look like you're defending Foley. If the only problem is Foley being gay then why didn't he date male adults? The problem is he went after a child who was supposed to be in the care of these people. The Republicans knew Foley was doing this and covered it up. It's hypocritical because they claim to be the party of morals and family values. Monica Lewinsky was 21. That is far different than 16. If you want a law that 21-year olds can't have sex, have the Republican Congress pass one.
    The Democrtas primary constituency besides teachers' unions is homosexuals? I thought it was blacks? Do conservatives have a stupid stereotypes list somewhere?

    The Confederate Flag symbolyzed treason and slavery. I can see why the South continues to defend it. Those "Democrats" were Southern conservatives, such as Strom Thurmond.

    CPLBERT WILL NOT GO ON WITH HIS CRAP
    APOLOGIES TO OTHERS BUT COLBERT WILL NOT SURVIVE MY BADGERING HIM UNTIL HE LEAVES
    HE WHINES AND SNIVELS AND LIES
    BYE-BYE COLBERT
    LEAVE ! LEAVE NOW OR SUFEER MORE RIDICULE AND HUMILITATION ON THIS SITE FOREVER
    PILLOW BITER COLBERT CANNOT STAND BEING HATED
    DID JOHHNY DOLLAR SAVE YOU PILLOW BITER BOY??
    HAHAHAHA

    HAHAHAHA COLBERT I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR YOU LITTLE PILOW BITER.
    CEE DOSE NOT WANT TO TALK TO YOU PILLOW BITER BOY- NOBODY WANTS TO TALK TO YOU HERE YOU WHINY LITTLE SHIT
    GET USED TO IT COLBERT YOU SNOT NOSED LITTLE PUNK WHINER
    I HAVE ALL DAY TO ANSWER WHAT YOU SAY TOHEPL SHOW YOU THE WAY NOW JUSYT GO AWAY
    WAH WAH PILLOW BITING BOY

    COLBERT THE PILLOW BITER LIKES LITTLE BOYS
    HE LIKES LITLE BOYS AND WHINING
    WAH WAH SAYS PILLOW BITER COLBERT-BOY SAVE ME JOHHNY DOLLAR SAVE ME
    EVERYBODY IS IGNORING YOU COLBERT VON PILLOW BITER
    NOBODY WILL ANSWER YOU PILLOW BITER BOY
    COLBERT CRIED "SAVE ME JOHHNY DOLLAR SAVE ME" WHEN HE GOT CAUGHT LYING LAST NIGHT. HE WHINED AND SNIVELED IT WAS PATHETIC
    WAH WAH COLBERT- NO PEACE FOR YOU HERE a--hole- EVER!

    Cee,
    "My view is that sexual behavior beyond recognized fidelity between a woman and a man is immoral.....and accepting of such leads to all sorts of compromise......slippery slope."

    Should we throw people in jail if they have sex outside of marriage?

    GOOD LUCK COLBERT SAYS CEE! SEE COLBERT YOU HGAVE BEEN ABANDONED- NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR FROM YOU.
    IT'S OVER COLBERT THE PILLOW BITER YOUR TIME HERE IS DONE YOU LOST-' WHERE IS JOHHNY DOLLAR TO SAVE YOU COLBER THE PILOW BITER??
    NOBODY CANHELP YOU WHINY BOT
    NOBODY WILL HELP YOU
    WAH WAH SAY COLBERT
    HAHAHAHAHAHA
    I WILL NEVER STOP COLBERT SO I HOPE YOU LIKE THIS BECAUSE I LOVE IT
    I HAVE ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT TO TALK TO YOU COLBERTSO WHAT DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT NOW LITTLE PILLOW BITING COLBERT
    PICK A TOPIC ANY TOPIC
    MY FAVORITE TOPIS IS HOW YOU ARE A CHICKENSHIT LIAR WHO LIKES TO WHINE AND SNIVLE
    I AM WAITING COLBERT
    YOU ARE AN a--hole JUST LIKE YOUR NAMESAKE
    BYE-BYE PILLOW BITER

    One more comment,
    So, according to Anon if it isn't illegal, it's okay. I think if you read my previous posts, I am very clear that I think the behavior is immoral. -cee

    Cee,

    Actually, according to the whole concept of a law-abiding society, if it isn't illegal, it's okay. If it isn't ok, it will be made illegal. Speaking hypothetically, there's nothing wrong with, say, wife-beating unless there's a law against it. There's nothing wrong with spamming message boards with crap unless there's a law against it. You may argue the morality as it pertains to you, but the underlying concept of a law-abiding society is precisely to determine what's "wrong" for society vs. what's "wrong" to you, the individual of a certain upbringing.

    That's the beauty (or curse) of living in a society like ours... laws are made to uphold values everyone can agree on, not just the keyboard jockeys, pundits or extremists.

    COLBERT CEE IS GONE SHE DOES NOT WANT TO TALK TO A WHINY LITTLE PILLOW BITING SHITASS LIKE YOU
    YOU ARE A REAL DUMBASS AND A PILLOW BITER COLBERT
    WAH WAH SAYS THE LITTLE PILLOW BITER
    NOBODY WILL TALK TO YOU HERE COLBERT THE PILOW BITER
    YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME
    ONLY I WILL ANSWER YOUR POSTS AND I WILL NOT READ THEM ONLY REMIND YOU OF WHAT A WHINY LITTLE LYING SHIT YOU ARE
    WAH WAH THAT IS ALL COLBERT CAN SAY

    YOU BELONG IN JAIL COLBERT YOU LIKE MEN YOU LITTLE PILLOW BITER
    WAH WAH I'LL JUST BET THEY LOVE WHINERS LIKE YOU IN STIR
    YOU COULD BE THE HEAD PILLOW BITER THERE
    AND GUESS WHAT THER WILLBE NO JOHNNY DOLLAR TO SAVE YOU THERE OR HERE
    WAH WAH THAT'S ALL THE LITTLE PILLOW BITING COLBERT CAN SAY

    Brandon,
    I refuted your "points" about blue laws and perjury. Unless you're smarter than God. Was God wrong? God was too stupid to differentiate between "bearing false witness" and "perjury?" If you're claiming we should ignore what the Ten Commandments say because you know better, fine. Otherwise, your "points" are not valid.

    BRANDON WON'T TALK TO YOU COLBERT
    YOU KEEP TRYING TO MAKE ALLIES BUT NOBODY WILL LISTEN TO YOU FOOL
    COLBERT CAN ONLY WHINE AND SNIVEL
    AND THEN WHEN HE GETS CAUGHT HE CRIES LIKE A LITLE GIRL
    HELP ME JOHNNY DOLLAR HE SAYS
    LITTLE PUSSY
    WHA WAH
    NOBODY WANTS TO TALK TO YOU COLBERT
    WE ALL THINK YOU ARE AWHINY SHIT

    STIL AT IT COLBERT THE PILLOW BITER??
    HAHAHAHAHA
    NOBODY WILL RESPOND TO YOUR LITTLE WHINY POSTS WILL THEY??
    DO YOU KNOW WHY COLBERT THE PILLOW BITER?
    BECAUSE WE ALL HATE YOUR GUTS YOU WHINY SHIT
    YOU ARE ONE DENSE LIBERAL a--hole COLBERT THE PILLOW BITER
    I WILL BE HER FOR YOU ALWAYS YOU WHINING LIAR
    YOU GET NO PEACE
    ALL DAY EVERY DAY UNTIL YOU,LEAVE
    GET USED TO IT YOU WHINY LITTLE TURD THIS IS YOUR LIFE HERE.

    NOBODY THERE FOR YOU COLBERT BUT LITTLE OLD ME JUST WAITING- WATCHING WATCHING.


    HAHAHAHAHAHAAA

    I AM STILL HERE COLBERT YOU LITTEL PILLOW BITER
    I WILL BE WAITING FOR YOU

    I'm surprised no one has mentioned Rice July 10, 2001 meeting with Tenet. Tony Snow confirmed the meeting took place. Tenet is alleged to have warned Rice about imminent al Qaeda attacks on our homeland. Rice claims not to remember. Oops. Maybe arguing about who is to blame for 9/11 isn't good for the Republicans anymore. Maybe 9/11 isn't good for Republicans anymore.

    Y'know, on most boards, the crap riverdog's been spewing would have been mod'd by now.

    COLBERT NOBODY IS GOING TO RESPOND TO YOU
    YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME
    THIS IS TIME YOU COULD BE SPENDING BITING YOU PILLOW
    NOBODY WILL TALK TO YOU HERE
    WHY DON'T YOU GO WHINNE TO JOHHNY DOILLAR AGAIN
    WAH WAH WAH
    NOBODY WILL LISTEN COLBERT O'LIE PILLOW BITER
    NOBODY BUT YOU AND ME NOW a--hole

    CLOBERT IS NOW CALLING HIMSELF SANITY AND WHINIG FOR THE MODERTAOR
    IF THERE WAS AMODERATOR COLBERT-SANIT-O'LIELLY WOULD HAVE BEEN BOOTED OUT A LONG TIME AGO
    SANITY IS COLBERT WHINING AGAIN
    HAHAHAHAHAHAA
    YOU ARE SOOOOOO STUPID COLBERT-SANITY
    I DON'T BELIEVE IT!
    YOU STATR SHIT AND THEN YOU WHINE
    YOU MAY BE THE PERFECT LIBERAL a--hole
    WAH WHA SAYS PILLOW BITER SANITY
    YOU ARE SO TRANSPARENT- AND SO WHINY
    HAHAHAHAHAHAH

    Please tell me the taxpayers aren't paying for you using this board to work out your petty frustrations...

    Sanity,
    Riverdog's on this site all day, every day. He collects welfare.

    THERE IS NO RIVERDOG NO MODERATOR
    JUST YOU AND ME INSANITY- COLBERT- ANONYMOUS-O'LIELLY WILLIAMS IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT
    IF YOU CAN'T STAND IT
    MODERATE YOUSELF RIGHT OUT OF HERE AND GO WHINE TO SOMEBODY THAT CARES
    ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU WANT TO BE SAVED FROM SOMETHING YOU CAUSED YOURSELF
    IF YOU CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT STAY THE FUCK OUT OF THE KITCHEN a--hole

    riverqueer,
    You've been posting on your newest name for an hour or so now. Don't you think it's time you learned how to spell "poor?"

    HAHAHAHAHAHA
    a--hole POSTS AGAIN
    NOBODY WILL LISTEN AND NOBODY WILL HELP TURD BOY
    GO BITE YOUR PILLOW SOMEWHERE ELSE
    I WILL NOT LET YOU REAT OR POST WHINY LITTLE SHIT
    NEVER- NO MORE FOR YOU
    NOW YOU PAY THE PRICE
    WAH WAH HE CRIES BUT NOBODYWILL HELP YOU
    LEAVE a--hole

    YOU ARE DA THE POR LITTLE PILOW BITER AND YOU KNOWIT
    HEY WILLIAMS HAVING ANY FLASKBACKS YET RAMBO??
    HAHAHAHAHAHAAA
    COLBERT YOU BITE PILLOWS AND LIKE IT
    NO PEACE COLBY
    GET USED TO IT a--hole

    Figures. Usually when you get in an argument it's to make a point, not to just whine for hours and hours.

    You know, I need to review what the laws are for dealing with crazy folks on message boards; this may be a desperate cry for help, and it may be someone on the breaking point. Given all that's happened in our country recently...

    I'm back.....

    With just two more observations:

    Lunchbreak's definition of, "Wrong" and "Right."

    So, what is moral? Is there moral truth? Very deep questions for Olbermannwatch.com

    Oh I see, the secular idea of relative truth....what's "right" for me may not be "right" for you, and vice versa. Well, good luck with that paradigm.....it's been tried before.

    And Colbert.....no, jail is the least of the problems people get with sex outside the vows of marriage between men and women.....just look around your town or city.....

    ...the breakdown of the family has resulted in much worse things than jails for us all, like:

    unwanted and abused children,
    abortion,
    infanticide,
    social welfare,
    drug abuse,
    domestic violence,
    crime,
    spread of sexually transmitted diseases,
    elder abuse and neglect,
    etc, etc, etc.....

    The family unit, as defined for thousands of years....seemed to had worked out well until modern, sophisticated all-knowing people developed the hubris to think they could do better.

    HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
    COLY-BITER DID YOUR WHINING HELP? NOBODY IS TALKING TO YOU ARE THEY ASSMUNCH
    NOBODY-OLBY SANITY WILLIAMS
    HAHAHAA
    BYE BY Ea--hole YOU LOSE
    YOU WHINY LITTLE PUKE

    Cee,

    What's innaccurate about those definitions? Illegal and immoral are two different spheres; Illegal is by definition breaking a law. Immoral is "violating moral principles; not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics" ... in some countries in the Middle East, it is perfectly moral to treat women like possessions, that's the way it's been for thousands of years. Their "family unit" principle is going strong, but I'd bet you find the idea ahborrent. Illegal is black and white, immoral is shades of gray. Immoral requires taking region and custom into account, Illegal requires checking a book.

    As for secularism... I never really knew what secularism was until I heard Bill O'Reilly going off about it. Doesn't the act of defaming someone for being "secular" automatically identify you with an religion of some kind and simultaneously elevating your way of life above all others, regardless of the facts of the matter? Seemed overly pretentious to me.

    "The family unit, as defined for thousands of years....seemed to had worked out well until modern, sophisticated all-knowing people developed the hubris to think they could do better. "

    This comment betrays a severe lack of understanding of history and a lot of wishful thinking.

    CE IS NOT GOING FOR IT COLBERT
    AND YOU HAVE NO CLUE AS TO THE HISTORY OF THE WOLD BEFORE YOU PLANTED YOU STUPID FACE OIN YOUR BONG.
    OK MR HISTORY PROFESSOR WHAT CULTURE, COUNTRY OR RELIGION EVER HAD YOUR BELOVED GAY MARRIAGE?
    "sophisticated all-knowing people"
    ANOTHER STUPID ONE FROM COLBER NEW TO THIS ITE WILLIAMS OR EWHATEVER
    HEY DIPSHIT AT LEAST PEOPLE IN THE PAST WERE SMART ENOUGH TO NOT SCREW EACH OTHER IN THE ASS AND THEN WANT TO GET MARIED OVER IT.
    WHAT A JOKE YOU ARE
    IT'S AMAZING SOMBODY LIKE YOU COLBERT CAN EVEN GO TO THE BATHROOM BY HIMSELF BUT MAYBE I AM GIVING YOU TOO MUCH CREDIT.
    YEAH SODOMY=HUMAN PROGRESS RIGHT??
    MAYBE THAT IS HOW PEOPLE LIKE YOU COLBERT NEW TO THIS SITE- HELP ME JOHHNY DOLLAR WILLAMS O'LIELLY WERE CONCEIVED- IN THE ANUS OF CIVILIZATION. THE END PRODUCT WAS STILL THE SAME- SHIT

    To the idiot in all caps,

    "OK MR HISTORY PROFESSOR WHAT CULTURE, COUNTRY OR RELIGION EVER HAD YOUR BELOVED GAY MARRIAGE?"

    Marraige? I don't think any. Gay trysts? Romans, Greeks, and pretty much every civilization up through now. Go look up the studies of dung beetles humping bottles, sex is just another urge.

    "HEY DIPSHIT AT LEAST PEOPLE IN THE PAST WERE SMART ENOUGH TO NOT SCREW EACH OTHER IN THE ASS AND THEN WANT TO GET MARIED OVER IT."

    Actually in rome and greece what would happen is they'd use the soft skin of a pre-pubescent boy's thighs (clenched together) to get off. Too graphic? History is a little brutal. Want to know about selling your own children into slavery? Same deal.

    "YEAH SODOMY=HUMAN PROGRESS RIGHT??"
    Ya know, Sodomy's another term I have problems pinning down, given there's multiple definitions. Generally speaking, it means "unconventional sex" ... see "morality" ... what's not conventional to you, may be conventional to someone else.

    Is this all going over your head?

    Wow, the intellectual discourse on this forum is very impressive.

    I think I'll let cee and POR LITTLE COLBERT discuss the ramifications of an ekpyrotic universe while I go visit a Liberal forum.

    Ta ta, twits.

    Cee,
    Contrary to your faith-based world-view the real world has never resembled "Leave it to Beaver." Social welfare, crime, drunkenness, drug abuse, STD's were abundant in the 1700's. What most people would consider child abuse certainly was not rare during the Industrial Revolution. Domestic violence was probably as common but not reported since women didn't have rights. Your view of the world is very warped.

    Ah yes, liberal tolerence once again rears it's wonderful head in the voice of Sanity and KOFan....

    A secular belief system either denies God or ignores God as a source of morality. It is way older than O'Reilly...in fact it goes back to the so-called age of Enlightenment...and returned with Postmodernism....ah yes, the wonderful influence that brought you the violence of the 20th century.

    When people stop searching for truth, they accept what is comfortable to them and call that truth. They are comfortable based on upbringing, personality and other superficial/temporal stuff.

    It is in the realm of the spiritual that moral truth is found.

    That's the real problem and why I see a society in decline......Moral truth is a reality, but sometimes the truth is hard to accept.

    Cee,

    Don't go anywhere -- I'm running out to grab some beers, but I'd love to actually have a conversation here. I don't understand where you're coming from.

    I got brought up Christian, I got taught the Golden Rule ("Do unto others...") and that seemed like more than enough. I got brought up with strong family values, although religion wasn't a huge priority, god is omnipresent in my life.

    I am compassionate enough to understand that my ways are not everyone's ways. I am smart enough to know that people taught they have no rights from birth are more inclined to believe it (Iran, what?) and that they're indoctrinated as such. They still have a working social system, it's just a polar opposite of, say, ours.

    I suppose I'm what that guy O'Reilly would call "secular" ... because I actually think about my convictions and whether they should be imposed on people not of my country, etc, etc.

    I need beer, but please, discuss.

    Ok now that I have beer,

    "A secular belief system either denies God or ignores God as a source of morality. It is way older than O'Reilly...in fact it goes back to the so-called age of Enlightenment...and returned with Postmodernism....ah yes, the wonderful influence that brought you the violence of the 20th century."

    I'm a little confused. I suppose I fall as "Secular" and I don't deny God or ignore God, I think God wants us to think for ourselves. If something feels wrong, don't do it. More or less, if you wouldn't want it to happen to you, don't do it to someone else. Seems pretty simple to me.

    As for the pedophilia issue... at some point, people have to be considered adults. We've mandated 18 years as the "age" of adulthood (because that's when you can vote) by law. Are there people under 18 that reason like "adults" ? Sure. Are there people over 18 that really shouldn't be considered "adults" given their lack of self control? Definitely. We've got a law in place that says 18 is the age. We put more laws in place to protect minors. There's no mention of religion in there, it's just what seems right.

    Second, "so called aged of enlightment" blah blah ah yes, "violence of the 20th century" ...

    Ok. I'm a pretty decent student of history. What's so amazing about the 20th century, as far as violence goes? Where's our Ghengis Khan? Our Alexander? Our Napoleon? Our (insert name of guy who led crusade such and such) ?

    Violence is hardly a new concept... 20th century didn't really stand out, on a relative scale.

    Cee,
    The Founding Fathers were followers of the Enlightenment. They used the Enlightenment as the basis for their thinking and actions. The Enlightenment, not Christianity, was the basis for our founding.

    My mention of the Enlightenment and Postmodernism, Colbert, was to refute the idea that "secular philosophy" was a new concept brought up by Bill O'Reilly....you liberals give the guy way too much credit.

    But since you mentioned Enlightenment thought....yes, many liberal historians only credit it for the bulk of the philosophy seen in The Declaration and Constitution. That debate was not my point. It is pretty well supported by other historians, looking at the same data, that the founder's disdain for the state and resultant federalist system was based on the idea that God, in creation, grants authority only and that governments are subservient to basic God-given rights to individuals. I sure do not hear this idea discussed in civics class anymore nor do you guys on the left seem to like that idea.

    The original system that was to rely on a federalist system wanted AS LITTLE authority given to a large, powerful government as possible. Smaller communitites (states, local towns) were to do most of the decision making.....that has been thrown away under a view that a beneficent federal government knows better and can redistribute wealth, secure financial futures and regulate almost every part of our lives. This transformation came about basically in the last 100 years of history, after the inclusion of Postmodernism thought in the minds of most academics (secular ideology)...

    Sanity's idea encapsulates postmodernism, somewhat, "I think God wants us to think for ourselves. If something feels wrong, don't do it. More or less, if you wouldn't want it to happen to you, don't do it to someone else. Seems pretty simple to me." Although, I would say take God out of it, like Nietzsche said, "God is dead."

    Postmodernism relys only on logic and as such, God as a guide to moral thought is unnessary. I highly recommend you read Nietzsche and get a foundation for what most secular thought is based on now. Pretty scary stuff IMO.

    The Founders would be in bewilderment if they saw the system as it stands now and I believe it is a silly argument to have......it is what it is. But to say it is what the founders wanted is not supported by the history.

    "Christianity" as Colbert says, was not the basis of our government. I agree, because if it was than Christ would be the central figure of thought and that was never the case (the merits of Christ's message to us has great value but it is on a much higher spiritual level).

    However, Colbert is incorrect to say that Enlightenment thought, exclusively, was the guiding principle as stated above. God is specifically mentioned in The Declaration and letters of the founders surrounding the genesis of The Constitution has Judea-Christian ideas and even Biblical quotes.

    With regard to violence in the 20th century Sanity, I did not say it was worse than other eras, just that it was a result of Postmodernism....Nazi Germany in particular...If mankind is so good with the logic and "If something feels wrong, don't do it." works so well, why do we continue to see such bad results for many people?


    "With regard to violence in the 20th century Sanity, I did not say it was worse than other eras, just that it was a result of Postmodernism....Nazi Germany in particular...If mankind is so good with the logic and "If something feels wrong, don't do it." works so well, why do we continue to see such bad results for many people?"

    I'm confused again. Adolf Hitler was, if I recall correctly, convinced god was on his side and telling him what to do - that doesn't sound like what you laid out as Postmodernism to me.

    As far as Bill O'Reilly - it's the first time I'd heard the term used as a derogative, no more, no less. I was more than a little surprised and went to look it up, then even more surprised after finding the definition that it could possibly be used as a derogative.

    You're using a number of straw man arguments here, at least in regard to what I've been saying. When I ask a question, it doesn't mean I hold whatever position you think you're propagandizing against, I just want my question answered. ;)

    The real flaw in the 20th century argument you just made, in my mind, is that you assume that the entire world has converted to Postmodernism - because _clearly_ if the violence of the 20th century is a result of Postmodernism, all parties involved must be practicing it. If you're trying to blame Nazism, it took what, one google search to find out how thoroughly Hitler's speeches were laced with Christianity?

    "Through subterfuge and concealment, many of today's Church leaders and faithful Christians have camouflaged the Christianity of Adolf Hitler and have attempted to mark him an atheist, a pagan cult worshipper, or a false Christian. However, from the earliest formation of the Nazi party and throughout the period of conquest and growth, Hitler expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers."
    That seems biased to me, but then we get actual transcript of his speech:
    "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. -Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922"

    Um. Doesn't sound like what you described as Postmodernism to me, sounds like someone using religion and beliefs to coerce followers. If you think the google isn't an appropriate source, do the legwork to disprove me - the date of the speech was included; it should be child's play to find another copy.

    Source: http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm

    I'm late to work and have a bunch of meetings today, but I'll be checking back. I wanted to write more, but I'm not getting going real quickly this morning !

    Ooh, last thing, the guy that compiled that page of Hitler & Christ quotes included his sources... namely

    Baynes, Norman H. Ed. "The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939," Vol. 1 of 2, Oxford University Press, 1942

    Great debate.....I rebut with a great book....

    Nietzsche, Prophet of Nazism: The Cult of the Superman--Unveiling the Nazi Secret Doctrine

    By Abir Taha

    Total SECRECY of the true intent of National Socialism was maintained through-out the pre 1930's and even after the attainment of power and into the late 30's. 20/20 hindsight makes it easy now, but manipulation by Hitler of people's passions was always a part of his protocol.

    Your quote from Hitler was early on....1922. Do you really think the population would have accepted someone who wanted to return to pagan worship and pursue the formation of a super-race? He and his Nazis always told the people what they wanted to hear....you even said it yourself Sanity, "....sounds like someone using religion and beliefs to coerce followers."

    That's the key, "USING." Abir Taha explores the roots of Nietzsche's philosophy and the three scholoarly opinions about its link to Nazism. I fall is the group that see Postmodernism as the philosophy of the Nazi elite while the masses were given a different doctrine to follow, what Taha calls esoteric versus exoteric Nazism.

    The basic philosophy of Nazism, in the end, was radically Nietschean. Adolph Hitler was no more a follower of Christ than was Nietzsche. Claiming to be a follower is easy, especially if your crowd wants to believe it.

    The idea of "Superman" is so anti-God that it is hard for me to even read about it. But it is the philosophy that drives much of the political discourse to this day, even subtly. When people claim "religion" is a cause of the world's woes I shudder because it is that short-sighted research that makes more people believe in the lie that elevates humankind to deity.

    "The Founding Fathers were followers of the Enlightenment. They used the Enlightenment as the basis for their thinking and actions. The Enlightenment, not Christianity, was the basis for our founding."

    No, you have the French Revolution confused with the Amercian Revolution Colbert. The founders were explicit in their reliance upon God (or Providence or the Deity and other terms of common usage in that day to refer to God) as well as reason in arriving at their notions of liberty. In the minds of the founding fathers, God intended for man to live in freedom and these notions of God's relationship with man undergirded reason and common sense. In other words, reason and faith are two wings each necessary to understand the thinking of the Founders. I recommend Michael Novak's "On Two Wings" for further exploration of this subject (much better written and researched than Jonathan Meachem's rather pedestrian recent work on the subject).

    I don't really view this as a debate cee, I'm asking questions to understand where you're coming from. Passages like your previous one further confuse me because they depict an overly simplistic view of complicated political machinations with a disregard for underlying cause to effect.

    "That's the key, "USING." Abir Taha explores the roots of Nietzsche's philosophy and the three scholoarly opinions about its link to Nazism. I fall is the group that see Postmodernism as the philosophy of the Nazi elite while the masses were given a different doctrine to follow, what Taha calls esoteric versus exoteric Nazism. The basic philosophy of Nazism, in the end, was radically Nietschean. Adolph Hitler was no more a follower of Christ than was Nietzsche. Claiming to be a follower is easy, especially if your crowd wants to believe it."

    If it was religion that motivated the Germans to follow Hitler even in part, blaming the entire Nazi reign on Postmodernism is a very simplistic view when Christianity and religion was used regularly as his bona fides to get into power and retain it. No leader commands ultimate authority; Once Hitler was installed he continued to use christianity and god in his speeches even to the very end, convincing his people that they were on the "right" side of a holy crusade for humanity. If that's what the majority of Germany thought, and that's what motivated those who weren't part of the "Nazi Elite" then you have your "cause" of the violence. Did the majority of Germany ever "think" that "maybe" what they were "doing" was perhaps "unchristian" ? I don't know. It was before my time. I doubt they thought they were fulfilling "God's Postmodernistic destiny extravaganza" though, and in the end, it's what the masses thought, not what Hitler thought, that kept them at war.

    I'll add another quote from that page in;
    "We have suffered so much that it only steels us to fanatical resolve to hate Our enemies a thousand times more and to regard them for what they are destroyers of an eternal culture and annihilators of humanity. Out of this bate a holy will is born to oppose these destroyers of our existence with all the strength that God has given us and to crush them in the end. During its 2,000-year history our people has survived so many terrible times that we have no doubt that we will also master our present plight.

    -Adolf Hitler, in a recorded radio address, 24 Feb. 1945"

    Those who don't learn from history...

    One other comment, cee, I'd love to hear your feedback on this passage, also from that site (I got curious as to what the site actually was after quoting from it!):

    http://www.nobeliefs.com/Harris.htm

    To answer tyour easy question, "Did the majority of Germany ever 'think' that 'maybe' what they were 'doing' was perhaps 'unchristian'?" I would answer,

    No, because the Nazi's has popular support. However, many thousands of Germans and people in Nazi occupied countries did do the, "christian," thing by aiding the resistence or by hiding Jews and other victims of the pograms. Many were Christians, many were not. But their philosophy or world view brought them to the right moral conclusion while still being exposed to the propaganda of Hitler.

    Do you have an example of someone who followed Nietzschian ideology or even a postmodernist worldview that fought Nazism?

    I'm still not convinced Hitler was what you say he was, particularly when I google the terms and the first hit is that site again, in essay form!

    http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler-myths.htm

    "Myth 4: Hitler followed Friedrich Nietzsche's philosophy"

    However, that is beside the point, and I'm not sure where you're going with the line "Do you have an example of someone who followed Nietzschian ideology or even a postmodernist worldview that fought Nazism?" ... exactly what does that have to do with the argument that the violence of the 20th century is due to Postmodernism?

    I should add that given what little I've read ("The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" for fun and a few history books years ago) I'd have to agree with the myth conclusions;

    "

    The myth of connecting Hitler with Nietzsche probably derived from the pre-Nazi Thule society which began in the early 1900s. Rudolf von Serbottendorff became the driving force of this order which practiced occultism and Nietzchian philosophy. Many members of the Thule society later became Nazis and did influence Nazi literature. However, Hitler never showed any interest in the Thule cult or in its pagan practices. Anyone who uses such material to justify a Hitler-Nietzsche link simply lacks historical depth (laziness of research) and has no understanding of Hitler."

    I do remember the context of his speeches and the interviews. I'm a little confused as to whether your sources are based on hyperbole or on firsthand experience and documentation, as Shirer's narrative was.

    I need to run and prep for a meeting, but I'll check in this afternoon. Please do read the excerpts from that book and respond?

    Sanity quotes from http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler-myths.htm

    "However, Hitler never showed any interest in the Thule cult or in its pagan practices. Anyone who uses such material to justify a Hitler-Nietzsche link simply lacks historical depth (laziness of research) and has no understanding of Hitler."

    The page ends with, "but Hitler never revealed any appreciation of Friedrich Nietzsche or his philosophy."

    A lie easily addressed by this historical fact:

    In 1934, Adolf Hitler paid a much publicized visit to the Nietzsche archives at Weimar. He had gone at the insistent request of its director, Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche (sister of the long-deceased German philosopher), and he was accompanied by his personal photographer, Heinrich Hoffmann. The main purpose of the visit, it seems, was to enable Hoffmann to take a picture of Hitler contemplating the bust of Nietzsche, which stood in the reception room. Perhaps appropriately, only half of the philosopher's head was shown in the picture, which duly appeared in the German press with a caption that read, "The Führer before the bust of the German philosopher whose ideas have fertilized two great popular movements: the National Socialism of Germany and the Fascist movement of Italy."

    From Nietzsche, Godfather of Fascism?
    On the Uses and Abuses of a Philosophy

    Edited by Jacob Golomb and Robert S. Wistrich

    This is another great book exploring both sides of the argument with the editor coming down on the side of those who believe Nietzsche was more of a perdictor of Hitler as opposed to the creator.


    The scholarly discussion of Nietzsche's philosophy as a basis of National Socialism will never be settled, however, the site you are quoting from has a pretty clear agenda and dismisses the influence out of hand, and rather poorly.....especially.....

    Myth 2: Hitler pretended his Christianity only for political purposes

    The whole diatribe about impugning an individuals confession of faith is a pretty dubious argument. I cannot prove a negative, so the philosopher of nobeliefs.com has me at a disadvantage. He or she cannot deny that Hitler used people's passions against them whether they be economic, religious or whatever.


    Correction....

    This is another great book exploring both sides of the argument with the editors coming down on the side of those who believe Nietzsche was more of a predictor of Hitler as opposed to the creator.

    Sorry; there was a lot of work to be done at the office.

    Cee, if you would, review what you wrote after "A lie easily addressed by this historical fact" and explain to me how it doesn't perfectly fit the following: "However, Hitler never showed any interest in the Thule cult or in its pagan practices. Anyone who uses such material to justify a Hitler-Nietzsche link simply lacks historical depth (laziness of research) and has no understanding of Hitler."

    In my opinion (which is minorly biased, true, because I haven't really reached an understanding of where you're coming from due to the fact it's based on mostly conjecture) a single staged "photo op" that was lobbied for by a relative of Nietsche does not a Nietsche disciple make. I'd prefer a more conclusive interpretation of the following facts;

    * Hans Frank, Hitler's personal lawyer, recalled that Hitler carried a copy of Schopenhauer's World as Will and Representation with him throughout World War I, but Hitler never revealed any appreciation of Friedrich Nietzsche or his philosophy.
    * Hitler loathed atheism. In his writings and speeches, he admonished atheists.
    * Nowhere in Mein Kampf does Hitler even mention Nietzsche, or Nietzchian terms such as superman, or super race.
    * Hitler viewed progeny, not in regards to evolution but in terms of blood lines (a Biblical view). He peppered his writings and speeches with "blood" words. Examples in Mein Kampf...
    * Hitler was born and baptized into Catholicism
    * The Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler. He died a Catholic.
    * He confessed his Christianity.
    * He tried to establish a united Reich German Church.
    * Hitler allowed the destruction of Jewish synagogues and temples, but not Christian churches.
    * He encouraged Nazis to worship in Christian churches.
    * He spoke of his Christian beliefs in his speeches and proclamations.
    * His contemporaries, friends, Protestant ministers and Catholics priests, including the Vatican, thought of Hitler as a Christian.
    * His early personal notes shows his interest in religion and Biblical views.
    * He believed that the Bible represented the history of mankind.

    Since I'm not sure you read what I posted, I brought it directly from that website, and I tend be more inclined to believe directly cited sources (his speech quotes in there are direct citations, and the other comments compliment my memory of Shirer's work). Now, if you would, let me summarize with more context to what I was originally getting at when I took issue with your agenda "the violence of the 20th century is the fault of postmodernism" ... regardless of the philosophical affliations of the Nazi elite (many besides Hitler DID follow some form of Nietschism) ... who did the work in a predominately Christian nation?

    Who invaded other countries without warning? Christians.
    Who supported a "mass murderer"'s regime? Christians.
    I think it is far too simplistic to place the blame (and the blood) on the hands of the regime. Blaming postmodernism for all the woes, atrocities and violence of the 20th century is naive. Assuming that someone of any faith is automatically blameless because they claim they are doing god's work is criminally naive.

    As has been stated elsewhere in this thread (particularly when you tried to cite the basic family unit as a "working model" for thousands of years in clear ignorance of the atrocities committed over the last few milennia and that continue to this day in the "underdeveloped" countries, those more in touch with 'ancient' ways) your writings seem naive to me. I welcome explanation and fact, but a conjecture or two about Hitler visiting a museum for a the nazi-day equivalent of a lobbyist is about as well-founded as assuming our president is a motorcycle enthusiast because he's done a Harley photo-op.

    That got a little long, sorry ! Please do read the link to that book review/quotes I cited, I found some of the material in there fascinating and want to know what you think of it.

    Also, lest my words be taken out of context or incorrectly, I'm a big fan of accountability and analysis. I think painting with such a broad brush ("It's all postmodernism's fault!") is criminally negligent because it makes the excuse that the individuals who carried out criminal acts were not culpable - I'm not trying to paint Christians in a bad light, just point out that it was hardly Postmodernism to blame. If anything, economic tariffs and penalties enforced by the rest of the world is far more to blame for giving Hitler such a desperate, unhappy, malleable populace to work with - again, I highly recommend Shirer's work.

    The Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler. He died a Catholic.


    I cant go into long historical background or this and that. All I know is The Catholic church has played a part in a lot of bad things but the fact that Hitler believed this or that, or that he wasn't excommunicated doesn't mean that he was a Catholic. You could go back and say if Luther had never come along, would the Catholic church have ever permited the likes of a nazi part to ever grow at all.

    I'm confused by what you're getting at with your statement Codas, and I'm certainly not targeting Catholics (or even Christians, really) I'm just pointing out something that I think is best said by a writer that I read yesterday; "But then, how many (Christians)* actually practice self-honesty?"

    * - insert any religion, really, or ethnic group for that matter...


    A quote I also came across which I find delightful was "Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs." ... and mind you, I'm not Atheist, I just view the rationale of many of the overtly religious as daring people to disprove a null.

    Sanity,

    I went to the website and read the information....did you read my post?

    You selected one portion from the site that read, "However, Hitler never showed any interest in the Thule cult or in its pagan practices. Anyone who uses such material to justify a Hitler-Nietzsche link simply lacks historical depth (laziness of research) and has no understanding of Hitler."

    it goes on to end with:

    "but Hitler never revealed any appreciation of Friedrich Nietzsche or his philosophy."

    I think the episode I mentioned would fall into, "revealing appreciation," but, hey to'mato/toma'to

    In the books I have read (two I mentioned), Hitler and the elite in the Nazi Party gave great homage to Nietzche. Their final goals reflect almost all of his philosophy.

    Now whether moral formulations without influence from the divine result in atrocity, I could argue all night with you....The results are pretty clear in my opinion.

    What you call naive I would call trusting in The Lord....I just do not trust human-derived constructs for judging right and wrong....That's what lead those "Christians" you mentioned astray.

    I have to go, but I will try to pick it up where you leave it.

    "I think the episode I mentioned would fall into, "revealing appreciation," but, hey to'mato/toma'to"

    Appreciation for a philosophy is something that would, in my mind, get more shrift than a single photo opp after much nagging by a third party - that alone reveals a lack of interest to me. Furthermore, wouldn't he take some more time to work the philosophies he truly cared about into his daily life? Perhaps into his notes (bible-christianity) or his speeches (lord-christianity) or his works (uniting church? christianity...) ... what you've cited is what is referred to as "conjecture" (a smiling man is photographed holding a young boy's hand; instant pedophile?) as opposed to "fact".

    That said, you've mentioned two books as being great supports - if you give me their names/ISBN# I will try to get some time this weekend to follow up on your claims. Some citations (pages/chapters of great relevence) would be very much appreciated. Alternatively you could just post relevant citations, but something more substantial than a lobbyist's photo-opp would be preferred.

    "What you call naive I would call trusting in The Lord....I just do not trust human-derived constructs for judging right and wrong....That's what lead those "Christians" you mentioned astray."

    There's an entire universe of ideological conflict there; your view, versus everyone else's. I am a scientist by training (if not by profession currently) and anything you can't measure, weigh and analyze much more difficult to trust. I'll quote a relevent passage from that site again; "There is, in fact, no worldview more reprehensible in its arrogance than that of a religious believer: the creator of the universe takes an interest in me, approves of me, loves me, and will reward me after death; my current beliefs, drawn from scripture, will remain the best statement of the truth until the end of the world; everyone who disagrees with me will spend eternity in hell. . . An average Christian, in an average church, listening to an average Sunday sermon has achieved a level of arrogance simply unimaginable in scientific discourse-- and there have been some extraordinarily arrogant scientists."

    I think that is a very telling statement. What supreme arrogance to place one's self or beliefs above others without any comparison or contrast. What a supreme level of denial is then reached when one might say, "Oh, Hitler wasn't Christian" (despite all evidence to the contrary) and yes, this is a straw man, but I'm making a point - blind trust in religion has led civilization to atrocity time and time again. What you're telling me is you will trust who you percieve as a more pious and religious figure ... which is how Hitler portrayed himself.

    "There is, in fact, no worldview more reprehensible in its arrogance than that of a religious believer: the creator of the universe takes an interest in me, approves of me, loves me, and will reward me after death; my current beliefs, drawn from scripture, will remain the best statement of the truth until the end of the world; everyone who disagrees with me will spend eternity in hell. . .

    Number one, your conversation with cee may be a bit over my head and I haven't read every word you have been saying. I think Hitler professing christianity doesn't make him a christian. He used them. He was a Nietzscheite as far as I'm concerned. You can't do what he did and be one. I have very mixed feelings about the bible and christianity, but I don't have mixed feelings about the teachings of Jesus. His teachings can be applied by an atheist. And we always hear about the terrible things done in the name of religion but who do you think was caring for the poor and the sick for all those years before your modern day local hospital was there? Faith in God goes way beyond saving your own ass and making it to heaven and seeing your "enemies" in hell.

    Codas,

    "Hitler professing christianity doesn't make him a christian. He used them. He was a Nietzscheite as far as I'm concerned. You can't do what he did and be one."

    This is more or less the point I'm getting at. What is _thought_ is often more important than what is. The fact that people thought Hitler was a good christian man with a righteous cause of glory for the lord was far more important then the man's actual beliefs (all signs of which do point to christianity) or philosophies (signs of which lean toward Nietschism). Call him a disciple of Postmodernism/Nietschism/Atheism/whateverism or no, that's not what he was selling, and that's not what people bought when they were following him - an important distinction. They bought a christian, they followed a christian cause.

    There is also a Christian crusader right now who has the potential to do some serious destruction would you agree. Well meaning and true believers think that they are following a annointed one when they are really only following the appointed one.

    Sanity,

    I have to get ready for work, but I have read your post....will reply later with the references you requested.

    One thing....let me just say that I am not a member of a high church (Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, Greek Orthodox, etc.)...Although I believe there are Christians in these churches who know Christ and follow Him, the doctrines, rites and traditions of these religious organizations do not make them Christian.

    It is my belief, that since Christ's ascension, His Church (note the capital C in Church), was always what His apostles said it was (and is), the individuals who embraced Christ alone....no traditions required....only the surrender of the individual's will to Him. Now I don't know about the "Christians" you are talking about, but this is what I mean by "Christian." I will use church to denote the building/denomination/historical religious organization, but when I use Church, I am talking about what The Bible says it is, the population of those who know The Messiah personally and surrender their will to Him.

    I only mention this so that I can define my understanding of your use of the characterization, "blind trust in religion." I do not trust in religion....I "trust" (I prefer "put my faith in") in Christ. People who trust in religion are doing the same thing as trusting in politics, or trusting in science, or trusting in philosophy...they are trusting in a human-made system;
    flawed/imperfect.....arguable/deconstructable.....accountable to Postmodernist thought.

    But as I have experienced my faith (not trust) in Christ alone, I have received an answer to any question I have posed and He has resolved many trials.

    Lastly, I am a scientist by training as well, I am a practicing physician and take great interest in deconstructing the physical/provable: it is central to my livelihood. However, my training will never handle the "metaphysical."

    My worldview may, in iteself, finish any discussion, especially with anyone who denies the "existence" of the metaphysical.

    I hope that is not the case.

    Later.


    Good morning,

    I one quick note; I certainly don't deny the existence of the metaphysical, however I point out that when one claims to be a pious Christian (or muslim, or jew, or you name it) really there's no way to hold them accountable for that claim. Do you think the vast majority of those who claim to be of one religion or another actually follow their dogma?

    This does wrap itself back up into modern day politics; a favored trick of politicians in the US is claiming that they're good christians (the majority of them!) and yet we constantly are finding out about this scandal or that one... and I question the morality of our invasion of Iraq, and how anyone with a moral bone in their body couldn't step back and take an honest appraisal of the situation instead of trying to paint it one way or another.

    The fact that you can't weigh or measure the metaphysical doesn't disprove its' existence, what it means is you can't weigh or measure it - you can't verify a claim (Hitler: "I am a christian with a good, christian cause!" Germany, the Vatican: "Ok!"). You can't easily tell the christians from those claiming to be christian.

    That was a bit of a groggy roll out of bed post, but this is one of the concepts I've been driving at - when you claimed postmodernism was the cause of the violence in the 20th century and cited the atrocities of the third reich, my first mental connection was, "Hey, didn't Hitler sell Germany a Christian war? Didn't they buy it? Isn't that a little simplistic to blame Postmodernism?".

    Social and economic factors were far greater causes of the rise and fall of the third Reich (by the way, if you haven't read Shirer's work, please put it on your list, it is an unparralled account that includes interviews, war documents, and personal experience!) than any religion or philosophy. What scares me is when people go blaming one cause or another and don't look deeper.

    Anyhow, have a great day at work, I'll check back this evening.

    I hate to keep sticking my nose in the middle of this but hold on now just a minute. Here is a perfect example of why politics and religion are a dangerous mix. I am a member of a high church, {Eastern Rite Catholic} and our doctrines, rites and traditions are a big part of what we consider "christian". I think it's people who come along with "special" revalations that steer us away from Christ and into the hands of charismatic leaders. Notice that Bush was and still claims to be a Methodist but they came out against this latest war. He is obviously getting "coached" by the evengelicals and their "special" spirit filled belief system of knowing the Messiah personally. Thats why I don't buy the "people of faith" against the secular world argument. I am not an evengelical and they are not under the pope. Lets not pretend that if push came to shove we wouldn't be bashing each others brains in over something. The same mentallity that allows the evengelical protestant to feel they don't need the authority of the priesthood makes me leary of them. And the evengelical can rightly be suspicious of our history and motives. Lets just keep some common decency in our laws that everyone agrees on and pursue God in the way that we can while keeping a good eye on big shot ideas from people who claim divine revalation.

    Codas,

    I made no claim of spiritual revelation, just defined what is a Christian. Rites, traditions, liturgy have value and importance as does priestly authority and organization....but it is all secondary to the individual relationship with the living Messiah.

    Many replace submitting, (like a child submits as Jesus demanded), to His authority with submitting to the human-made - rites, traditions, liturgy and/or to the priest or minister. They are not mutually exclusive but the relationship, what I would call the indwelling of Christ, is required to know God.

    With regards to "religion" and politics, I am sophisticated enough to realize that as Hitler did, so does Bush, Kerry, Robertson, Clinton and other leaders....at their own peril of divine judgement, I might add. I take great solace in that and also that all that transpires is under the omnipotence of The Father. My particular political affiliation, support/opposition to policy, etc. is all secondary to that idea of divine control and I have been wrong in my own judgement of the political. I have also been right...but I claim no revelation that God told me.

    "With regards to "religion" and politics, I am sophisticated enough to realize that as Hitler did, so does Bush, Kerry, Robertson, Clinton and other leaders....at their own peril of divine judgement, I might add."

    Their divine judgement is of much less concern to me (it's between them and god) than the consequences of people buying what they have to sell at the time.

    "I take great solace in that and also that all that transpires is under the omnipotence of The Father. My particular political affiliation, support/opposition to policy, etc. is all secondary to that idea of divine control and I have been wrong in my own judgement of the political. I have also been right...but I claim no revelation that God told me."

    One of the habits I've developed over the years, biased or no, is to instantly distrust those who cite God or their beliefs without it being solicited... my faith has always seemed to me to be something no one else can measure or weigh, so I'd rather be judged on my actions and my character and my moral decisions than what denomination I fall under. It just seems logical; don't measure what you can't measure, and weigh what you can weigh.

    I have very little understanding of the breakdown of the tree of Christian faith - I bounced around several churches in my childhood that were many different versions of Christianity, and in my mind it was pretty much all the same - be a good person, god's there for you. What amused me as I grew older was the sniping and bickering between various branches of the faith - to think that something so intangible can create such tangible divides...

    Sorry, I'm a bit out of the loop before my coffee, but very interested in hearing more along these lines.

    Well that's just it Sanity, you hit on why such philosophies like Postmodernism, etc. are the anchors by which secular thinkers grap onto, it is their only choice. You said,

    "Their divine judgement is of much less concern to me (it's between them and god) than the consequences of people buying what they have to sell at the time."

    Consequences for who? You personally? 50% of the population? 99% of the population? 10%?

    Let's be honest here......Nietzsche, and those that followed who support such an ideology (Hitler), look at the material world and say, "what's in it for me." "Me" may actually mean you alone (narcissist) OR....."me" may be more of a we (but limited) actually including your family, your community, your country (nationalistic), your race (if you're racist), etc. or even as much of the world as is fair according to your system. Using religion, politics, violence, media, economics, law, science, punishment, war, etc. are the ways humans (for good or ill) try to achieve their naturalistic (physical) needs and wants. Am I right to assume that is what you mean by consequences?

    Please answer the last question because I am still confused about what outcome would have been morally "right" in your discussion of Nazi Germany.

    Sanity, Anon 10:09 was me, cee.....different computer

    grap = grasp

    I'm no Nietzsche scholar but didn't he say there was only one real Christian and he died on the cross. What would he have thought about Hitler and the Nazi party I wonder?

    I'm no Nietzsche scholar but didn't he say there was only one real Christian and he died on the cross. What would he have thought about Hitler and the Nazi party I wonder?

    It was easy to cut and past....if you are intersted....

    From NIETZSCHE, PROPHET OF NAZISM : THE CULT OF THE SUPERMAN; Unveiling the Nazi Secret Doctrine

    Abir Taha


    The “Cult of the Superman” has haunted humanity throughout history, yet it was only clearly expressed in the philosophy of its modern prophet, Friedrich Nietzsche, and culminated in its fiercest supporter, the National Socialist ideology, a political religion whose main ideal and objective were the creation of a superhuman species.

    By showing the link between the Nietzschean and Nazi worldviews - and more specifically the Nazi Secret Doctrine which I have called “esoteric Nazism”- my aim is to demonstrate that the Nazis were pure Nietzscheans, thus repudiating the views of some scholars who deny or undermine any link between the Nietzschean and Nazi doctrines. I endeavour to prove that the Nazi esoteric ideology was primarily an endeavour to actualise and institutionalise Nietzsche’s cult of the Superman, applying it to a political system that would breed a Herrenvolk or “Master Race” in body and spirit, destined to rule the earth. Nazism was in fact greatly influenced by Nietzsche’s philosophy, especially his concept of the Superman, giving it a political dimension in order to “put Nietzsche into motion” and turn the philosopher’s cult from an abstract notion into a concrete reality. The S.S. (Schutzstaffeln, or “Security Squads”), Nazi Germany’s racial and political elite, was indeed a self-proclaimed Nietzschean institution of Übermenschen or “Supermen” claiming to embody the creed of the Godlike man.

    Thus did both Nietzsche and the Nazis call for a revival of Aryan paganism, namely the ancient Aryan esoteric tradition from India to Greece, rejecting the Jewish religion of Christianity, which they believed was a gross distortion of Christ’s original teachings. Both doctrines acknowledged the Will to Power as the motor of history; both praised the qualities and values of the Superman, glorifying war, and advocating a radically aristocratic view of the world. Both Nietzsche and Nazism despised Western Judaeo-Christian Civilisation and its two products, Liberalism and Socialism, introducing a “third option” - aristocratic radicalism - between “corrupt egalitarian democracy” and the “materialist socialism of the mob”. In addition, both advocated the rule of an Aryan universal “Master Race” transcending the boundaries of states and nations; and finally, both Nietzsche and the Nazis dismissed the “decadent” Jew from civilisation, considering him alien to the natural order, an incarnation of the slave morality.

    It was easy to cut and past....if you are intersted....

    From NIETZSCHE, PROPHET OF NAZISM : THE CULT OF THE SUPERMAN; Unveiling the Nazi Secret Doctrine

    Abir Taha


    The “Cult of the Superman” has haunted humanity throughout history, yet it was only clearly expressed in the philosophy of its modern prophet, Friedrich Nietzsche, and culminated in its fiercest supporter, the National Socialist ideology, a political religion whose main ideal and objective were the creation of a superhuman species.

    By showing the link between the Nietzschean and Nazi worldviews - and more specifically the Nazi Secret Doctrine which I have called “esoteric Nazism”- my aim is to demonstrate that the Nazis were pure Nietzscheans, thus repudiating the views of some scholars who deny or undermine any link between the Nietzschean and Nazi doctrines. I endeavour to prove that the Nazi esoteric ideology was primarily an endeavour to actualise and institutionalise Nietzsche’s cult of the Superman, applying it to a political system that would breed a Herrenvolk or “Master Race” in body and spirit, destined to rule the earth. Nazism was in fact greatly influenced by Nietzsche’s philosophy, especially his concept of the Superman, giving it a political dimension in order to “put Nietzsche into motion” and turn the philosopher’s cult from an abstract notion into a concrete reality. The S.S. (Schutzstaffeln, or “Security Squads”), Nazi Germany’s racial and political elite, was indeed a self-proclaimed Nietzschean institution of Übermenschen or “Supermen” claiming to embody the creed of the Godlike man.

    Thus did both Nietzsche and the Nazis call for a revival of Aryan paganism, namely the ancient Aryan esoteric tradition from India to Greece, rejecting the Jewish religion of Christianity, which they believed was a gross distortion of Christ’s original teachings. Both doctrines acknowledged the Will to Power as the motor of history; both praised the qualities and values of the Superman, glorifying war, and advocating a radically aristocratic view of the world. Both Nietzsche and Nazism despised Western Judaeo-Christian Civilisation and its two products, Liberalism and Socialism, introducing a “third option” - aristocratic radicalism - between “corrupt egalitarian democracy” and the “materialist socialism of the mob”. In addition, both advocated the rule of an Aryan universal “Master Race” transcending the boundaries of states and nations; and finally, both Nietzsche and the Nazis dismissed the “decadent” Jew from civilisation, considering him alien to the natural order, an incarnation of the slave morality.

    Another great synopsis of Postmeodernism and Nietzshe...

    http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/hum_303/nietzsche.html

    I wrote a little poem that got a great big zilch reaction on the oct 4th thing so maybe one of you have something nasty to say about it.

    I like a good poem as much as the rest
    You think he's a liar, You think him a pest
    You don't like his tan and you know he does test
    Your patience and nerve when he tells you the truth
    You think back to the good time in the days of your youth
    When Reagen was prez and it all seemed so right
    Bush was still drinking and drugging all night
    His old man was waiting to take over the job
    Ronnie did Nancy and the poor working slob
    He fired the strikers and tore down the wall
    They got hired at Wendy's and a store in the mall
    The georgie took over and kicked sadams ass
    Then the hearings went down and he gave North a pass
    His lips you did read, and your vote went to Ross
    Then it all went to hell when you found out the cost
    Slick Willy was comming with his wife and a grin
    And boy were you happy when you caught him in sin
    But he brought down the budget and he left us in black
    He left us the better with a knife in his back
    Like Oswald at the window you took aim and shot
    With Russ, Sean and Coulter and the bullshit they brought
    Now along comes the younger and he brought Nixons crew
    They cut us in half into red states and blue
    As a witness to Jesus the president led
    Make the taxes go down and the terrorists dead
    Just a dam paper, constitution in hand
    On with the fight with the war Cheney planned
    It didn't go well, no flowers for us
    Just a trip down to hell with a bomb on a bus
    Our soldiers do die and bleed every day
    But we must cleanse our country from the socialist way
    Don't pay no attention while they're blown up to bits
    Let the sissy's and fairies all have hissy fits
    Hard work fighting wars with that all knowing grin
    He makes you feel safer he's so sure that we'll win
    But you know he knows better than to listen to dad
    It must make you happy, but it makes me feel sad
    Russ was in rehab and Coulter's a Dan
    Sean is an a--hole disguised as a man
    Colbert, Keith and Stewart make you all ill
    It must be so hard to swallow that pill
    Thanks for this site, I do think it's fun
    I've said too much here, so I'm gonna run

    Later

    I wrote a little poem that got a great big zilch reaction on the oct 4th thing so maybe one of you have something nasty to say about it.

    I like a good poem as much as the rest
    You think he's a liar, You think him a pest
    You don't like his tan and you know he does test
    Your patience and nerve when he tells you the truth
    You think back to the good time in the days of your youth
    When Reagen was prez and it all seemed so right
    Bush was still drinking and drugging all night
    His old man was waiting to take over the job
    Ronnie did Nancy and the poor working slob
    He fired the strikers and tore down the wall
    They got hired at Wendy's and a store in the mall
    The georgie took over and kicked sadams ass
    Then the hearings went down and he gave North a pass
    His lips you did read, and your vote went to Ross
    Then it all went to hell when you found out the cost
    Slick Willy was comming with his wife and a grin
    And boy were you happy when you caught him in sin
    But he brought down the budget and he left us in black
    He left us the better with a knife in his back
    Like Oswald at the window you took aim and shot
    With Rush, Sean and Coulter and the bullshit they brought
    Now along comes the younger and he brought Nixons crew
    They cut us in half into red states and blue
    As a witness to Jesus the president led
    Make the taxes go down and the terrorists dead
    Just a dam paper, constitution in hand
    On with the fight with the war Cheney planned
    It didn't go well, no flowers for us
    Just a trip down to hell with a bomb on a bus
    Our soldiers do die and bleed every day
    But we must cleanse our country from the socialist way
    Don't pay no attention while they're blown up to bits
    Let the sissy's and fairies all have hissy fits
    Hard work fighting wars with that all knowing grin
    He makes you feel safer he's so sure that we'll win
    But you know he knows better than to listen to dad
    It must make you happy, but it makes me feel sad
    Rush was in rehab and Coulter's a Dan
    Sean is an a--hole disguised as a man
    Colbert, Keith and Stewart make you all ill
    It must be so hard to swallow that pill
    Thanks for this site, I do think it's fun
    I've said too much here, so I'm gonna run

    Later

    Dear Codas, Grammie doesn't say nasty things to children when they jump up and down with 'look, look at me' I just went to the potty all by myself and only used 10 rolls of paper.
    Very interesting. You obviously worked hard on your poem. Keep trying. Who knows, when your're all grown up, you may acttually have something to say and able to say it.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Howdy do,

    I'll try to address these a post at a time;

    "Let's be honest here......Nietzsche, and those that followed who support such an ideology (Hitler), look at the material world and say, "what's in it for me." "Me" may actually mean you alone (narcissist) OR....."me" may be more of a we (but limited) actually including your family, your community, your country (nationalistic), your race (if you're racist), etc. or even as much of the world as is fair according to your system. Using religion, politics, violence, media, economics, law, science, punishment, war, etc. are the ways humans (for good or ill) try to achieve their naturalistic (physical) needs and wants. Am I right to assume that is what you mean by consequences?"

    For the first part; I meant consequences, in all their facets. I suppose I do mean consequences from a moral POV but also from a logical one.

    To start in WWII, I can't fault the german people for wanting to get back some national pride, to get out from under the penalties imposed by the winners of world war I which was so draining to their economy, and so forth. That's perfectly fair. Deciding it was ok to persecute an entire ethnic group/religion (put yourself in the jews shoes or ask yourself, were I born or raised a jew, what would I think of this situation?) should have been a gigantic warning sign to any levelheaded moral person ("yes, certain people are BAD just because they were BORN in a certain FAMILY, CLEARLY the bible teaches us this!") ... sort of like flinging "liberal" and "republican" around like curse words and painting the broadest brush possible in the name of punditry is prevalent nowadays.

    Consequences that escalate, like invading a country, then another country. Shirer's work is incredibly worth the read just for that period where Hitler was invading countries and the rest of the world was too scarred by WWI to take action - particularly after he'd stated exactly what he'd do in Mein Kampf, published several years beforehand. The study of history leads us to ask the questions, "how did such immoral people get into power?" and you would think the answers would help us prevent further catastrophies.

    Indulge me if you would; fast forward to today for a second, because I do want to talk about consequences in something more relevant and I hope you can clarify, for me, what my views are consistant with. (minor prelude/background) While there's no doubt in my mind that there is a higher power, philosophically I've decided (introspection during my teenage years) that free will isn't free will unless god lets you make your own choices. I don't disbelieve in an afterlife, but I believe you should focus on the present and try to live the best life you can and be the best person you can, because that is what God wants for each of us. Which brings me to present day events... 9/11.

    I had friends in NYC, but I wasn't going on pure emotion when people suggested invading Afghanistan. After the case had been made it seemed pretty clear; Osama = terrorist = Taliban Regime, close ties, good enough. In we went, and I was perfectly fine with that. Liberating a people was not the goal (realist view; there are far more people "in need" of liberation that will never get it simply because they live in a country that has no export worth fighting for and hasn't pissed us off, and we don't have the power or the cajones to genuinely bring liberation to those that need it) dismantling a regime that supported terror was. Works for me.

    Iraq... the reasoning for the war was confusing at the time, and makes absolutely no sense now, morally, logistically, you name it. It's one thing to have a smoking gun, but even at the time there was plenty of clamor about evidence lacking support. Just rewind to then and think about the consequences of invading Iraq... since the horrors of WW1, we do not invade countries then pull out and leave them in shambles; we've learned that lesson. Invasion means investment to rebuild and reorganize. Look at the ethnic situation at the time; three rival ethnic groups in one country, under the control of a brutal dictator, but one who kept ethnic rivalries in check. Look at the interest of the surrounding countries in the resources of Iraq, and their ethnic backgrounds. What is the upside to the invasion?

    I feel morally culpable because I was on the fence for Iraq and I should have been against it. I have friends serving there now, and no matter how you paint it, Iraq makes no sense morally. We're creating more ill-will there than anything else; I didn't need recent international polls to tell me that, it was sort of a "well, DUH, just look at our conduct!". I sit here and wonder, did we just fall for the same crap the Germans did after WW1? I'm not afraid to say, "Wow. I was wrong. I bought into something and was completely, totally wrong" ... and thanks to the fact I live in the USA, my opinion does make a difference in the form of voting - I'm not sure the third reich's citizens had that sort of a chance.

    I suppose that's what I'm getting at. Blaming postmodernism for the violence of the 20th century seems naive and overly simplistic; Hitler didn't rise to power on postmodernist concepts, he rallied his base through tactics painted as christian and righteous but which were in fact blatantly immoral - and his christian followers fell for it hook, line, and sinker, and gave him the power he needed and followed where he led. Admittedly, culpability doesn't belong only to the christians of the day; other countries and the Vatican let Germany run amuck long before it really got going with the atrocities.

    My point in all this is that far too many people are afraid of self-honesty, or admitting their mistakes. Far too many people will do something for personal gain despite that tremulous feeling in your gut that this just isn't right. I'd love to know whether I qualify as a "postmodernist" thinker based on what I've posted here, so please enlighten me - and remember, there is no doubt in my mind that God exists, but I don't think that anyone should use him as an excuse for atrocity.

    It is postmodernist thought simply because all you mention comes from the foundational idea of self preservation, me is central.

    I'll use your example....The United States was attacked on 9/11 and these attacks had two immediate results.

    1) People were killed and their "right to life" was taken from them

    2) The security of our secular society was breached and most now realized a "new" threat to our basic societal structures (Although some argue the threat was there for decades).

    Number 1 is simple in moral terms.....killing (murder) is wrong. Number 2 is very, very complicated logically and morally IMO....I don't have enough time to discuss it.

    When the Islamic terrorists began threatening our secular institutions....econmoic, political and social, your right and my right to life, liberty and happiness are the target. You and I are United States Citizens and benefit from the above mentioned secular institutions.....we can eat, be warm and physcially safe in our homes, go on vacation, enjoy our hobbies, etc. We want to maintain this "lifestyle," so we grant authority to others to "handle" the threat....the ENTIRE reason humankind has had "rulers" since the beginning. We need a "corporate" or "communal" entity to insure the three basic components of human rights: life, liberty and indulgence (pursuit of happiness).

    MORALLY, which rights are more paramount?.....as a theist, I agree with how T. Jefferson ranked the rights in The Declaration of Independence.....1) Life (cannot have the others if you are dead), 2) Liberty (all have a right to exercise "free will" with limits agreed upon so that #1 is not violated and that #3 can occur), 3) Indulgence (subservient to #1 and #2).....

    So, what to do morally, AND WHY, about 9/11? As the entity expected to preserve our rights (1,2,3 in that priority), The President acted, and war was part of what he did. There is not enough time in the day or space on this blog to discuss the morallity of war in general. There is not enough time to discuss the propriety of citizens giving up liberty or indulgence rights so that the government can effectively preserve them all, especially our lives.

    Is President Bush protecting the US citizenry from forces that have stated they want to do harm? Yes. Saddam had used WMD and there was, arguably, intelligence showing his involvement with WMD. 20/20 hindsight discussions are all well and good, but what does it do for us?

    Now, without Saddam there is sectarian violence and Al Queda has gotten involved in the violence. Leaving without stablizing the country would violate Bush's obligation to protect us because it is obvious an unstable/terrorist Iragi state would be worse.

    Hitler actively manipulated and used the power of the state to manipulate millions of people. To suggest Bush has done the same thing is not supported by the evidence. We have a free, active and very cynical press. Germany did not.

    The bottom line for me is that Iraq is a challenge that more and more of the American people are losing the will to overcome. The enemy senses this loss of will (especially with monthly press polls asking about it) and they are increasing the violence to continue the loss of will. This is what happened in the Vietnam war and we deserted a country we had a treaty with because the will to meet the challenge was lost. If it happens again....(and guess what if it does, Bush will be LBJ and some other poor fool will be Nixon), the consequences will be very, very bad.

    With regards to the postmodernism discussion, I have to come back to it because of a meeting. But I will return.


    Lunchbreak,

    I could go online and find just as many ACLU and liberal rants about content expressed in public schools that is of a "religious" nature...."OH NO, YOU SAID 'GOD' AND I'M OFFENDED!" What's the point....both sides have their shrill worriers.

    But, you know what, I don't have the time or the need.......I want to go and recite The Pledge of Allegiance.


    Lots worth responding to but I'm probably not going to have time until late today; wanted to say I'm not gone, just busy.

    Dear Cee, WOW! You are on FIRE too and a lot smarter and articulate than I am. There is nothing to add except that phrase that normally turns me off:

    YOU GO GIRL!

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Cee,

    Just to get things clear since I might have had and passed on to Janet, the wrong impression.

    Did I understand you to say recently that you are one of those unfortunate sufferers of testosterone poisoning (a male).

    If so, my apologies, but you're smart enough to be a woman.

    OK! Clue me in. I am a conservative right wing Christonazi. All the other crap is irrelavant. YOU GO whoevever you are.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    OK! Clue me in. I am a conservative right wing Christonazi. All the other crap is irrelavant. YOU GO whoevever you are.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Yes Cecelia and Janet.....my wife often commiserates with her kindred about my y-chromosome induced genetic disorder.

    No problem.....I just read the posts and wanted to come up with some witty way to set the record straight.

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    I just did a google because I had a question about Keith Olbermann and came across this thread...
    By far one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen on the internet.

    The judge who put coded messages in his Da Vinci Code plagiarism trial ruling has written another...