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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    September 26, 2006
    OlbyWatch Survey: Does Chris Wallace deserve a public apology?

    Question: Does Chris Wallace deserve a public apology for being called a "monkey"?

    A. Yes, from Olbermann
    B. Yes, from Dan Abrams and MSNBC
    C. Yes, from both of the above
    D. No, Keith was right

    Yesterday's Question: How will Olby cover the Clinton/Wallace interview tonight?

    A. Deliver a "special comment" slamming Fox News 29% (65 votes)
    B. Interview a Clintonista to say "Bill was right" 6% (14 votes)
    C. Interview a journalism "expert" to say "Bill was right" 6% (15 votes)
    D. All of the above 55% (123 votes)
    E. He will ignore it all together 2% (6 votes)


    Posted by Robert Cox | Permalink | Comments (115) | | View blog reactions
    user-pic

    115 Comments

    Good luck getting Mr. Orange-glo to apologize. He'll just claim it's the fault of the VRWC

    I have to admit a big mistake....I gave Olbychimp too much credit. Yesterday's poll question had "Special Comment" as an option for the point of attack on Mr. Wallace. Mr. Billirubin Face actually went ahead with another demagogic rant....wow. I thought alot better of him.....I guess he showed me how wrong I was.

    I just finished watching the comment. Apologies to many are in order.......including the poor fool who had to proof read the 99% fact-free message.

    I think it will take about 300 posts on this site to refute each argument Olbyfibber put out during the 10 minute DNC commercial.

    The monkey comment was beyond tasteless, it was juvenille. The facial expressions were also priceless.....Hollywood awaits, Olbykook!

    i can't remember, have you idiots gotten around to swiftboating army chief Schoomaker yet?

    "The criticism comes amid an unprecedented show of defiance from the army chief, Gen Schoomaker. The general refused to submit a budget plan for 2008 to Mr Rumsfeld, arguing the military could not continue operations in Iraq and its other missions without additional funds, the Los Angeles Times reported yesterday. The seriousness of the protest was underlined by Gen Schoomaker's reputation as an ally of the Pentagon chief. The general came out of retirement at Mr Rumsfeld's request to take up the post."

    Anon,

    I hold the highest respect for the objective opinion of a United States Army General....unlike the left of this country who have never supported full funding of the military.

    Cuts seem to have occurred under the leadership of Carter and Clinton if I remember correctly....and now Rangel is threatening the cutting of Iraq funding if the democrats take control of congress.

    Mike Wallace is hopefully deleting Chris's phone number and him from his will. KO was spot on last night, he usually is.

    Amazing.

    One would think it would be a fairly noncontroversial proposition that if you called someone a "monkey" you would apologize.

    One would think it would be a fairly noncontroversial proposition that if you said that a colleague was "dumb as rocks", you would apologize.

    One would think that it would be a fairly non conroversial proposition that if you invoked the Nazi salute in public to besmirch a competitior who did nothing to earn such such an epithet, you would apologize.

    I could go on, but you get the point. Now, take a look at the polling results. 86 votes have been cast and 31 of them (almost 1/3) have voted that no apology is to be given, that Olby was right to call Chris Wallace a "monkey".

    This is a perfect symbol of the left wing nuttery that passes for discourse these days. The Kossacks have overrun the party apparatus and a once honorable party with reasonable ideas has become an a collection of bitter, unhinged, fist pounding haters with no ideas or solutions, just bile and insults. And of course, any person who takes the measure of their outpouring of invective and observes that such is off the mark or questionable, will be disingeniously accused of "stifling dissent" or "questioning patriotism". I don't understand who in their right mind would want to belong such a deranged outfit.

    wait, is a monkey a type of macaca? If so, an apology is needed!!

    Macaca is the worst thing you could ever call a person.

    Allen apologized. Even called the guy up and personally apologized.

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/08/24/sen_allen_apologizes_for_macaca_jibe/

    Now that I've dealt with your attempt at diversion, care to actually defend Olbermann or make the case that no apology is needed?

    "unlike the left of this country who have never supported full funding of the military ... Cuts seem to have occurred under the leadership of Carter and Clinton if I remember correctly"

    after five years of control of both houses of congress and the executive ... the right still blames clinton for its own incompetance ... a la chris wallace's pathetic echo chamber exhibition, et al -- yeah, right: bin laden is clinton's fault. so's iraq. so's the afghan narco-state. so's the state of the military. so's the deficit. so's new orleans. Propaganda's on the March!

    no, I agree with you hank. just pointing out the hypocrisy. Allen was vilified, olby will be applauded.

    Anon,

    Before you start throwing stones, look back at your glass house. The left SCREAMS that George Bush is personally responsible for terrorism, global warming, high gas prices, Parkinson's Disease and poor math scores.

    IMO, denial of responsibility for 9/11 started with the release of Clarke's book and the testimony of the bureaucrats in front of the 9/11 Comission. There were multilevel failures and MANY people contributed to the miss. BUT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AT FAULT FOR 9/11 ARE THE ISLAMOFASCISTS THAT PLANNED, SUPPORTED AND EXECUTED THE PLOT, duh......

    Liberal have so politicized this war on terrorism that NO ONE can speak without some idiot getting defensive and saying, "DON'T BLAME ME!" Wallace's question was a valid one, even Clinton himself said it was. It was THE CONTEXT that irks liberals like Clinton, you and Olbyfool. FOX is evil and if they ask a question, there MUST be an agenda behind it. What the hell does Olbybaby do every night but present HIS agenda disguised as news?

    The hypocrisy level of the left is astounding....

    Kman- you're wasting your time trying to use logic and reason...

    You are correct. When a Conservative calls someone a name (even when he later appologizes), he's an evil "right-winger".

    When a Liberal name-calls, its heroic and brave!

    Go Keith! You WILL be the Michael Moore of this election. YOUR words will allow the Republicans to keep (if not GAIN) seats in BOTH houses!

    Cunt Condi, once thought to be some virtuously exempt member of the CEO a--holes runnning this country into the ground, has worked tirelessly to prove that she's just another corrupt and incompetant lying republican scumbag ...

    .
    .
    .

    Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice yesterday accused Bill Clinton of making “flatly false� claims that the Bush administration didn’t lift a finger to stop terrorism before the 9/11 attacks. “What we did in the eight months was at least as aggressive as what the Clinton administration did in the preceding years,� Rice added.

    The 9/11 Commission Report contradicts Rice’s claims.

    On December 4, 1998, for example, the Clinton administration received a President’s Daily Brief entitled “Bin Ladin Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks.� Here’s how the Clinton administration reacted, according to the 9/11 Commission report:

    The same day, [Counterterrorism Czar Richard] Clarke convened a meeting of his CSG [Counterterrorism Security Group] to discuss both the hijacking concern and the antiaircraft missile threat. To address the hijacking warning, the group agreed that New York airports should go to maximum security starting that weekend. They agreed to boost security at other East coast airports. The CIA agreed to distribute versions of the report to the FBI and FAA to pass to the New York Police Department and the airlines. The FAA issued a security directive on December 8, with specific requirements for more intensive air carrier screening of passengers and more oversight of the screening process, at all three New York area airports. [pg. 128-30]

    On August 6, 2001, the Bush administration received a President’s Daily Brief entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike U.S.� Here’s how the Bush administration reacted, according to the 9/11 Commission report:

    [President Bush] did not recall discussing the August 6 report with the Attorney General or whether Rice had done so.[p. 260]
    We have found no indication of any further discussion before September 11 among the President and his top advisers of the possibility of a threat of an al Qaeda attack in the United States. DCI Tenet visited President Bush in Crawford, Texas, on August 17 and participated in the PDB briefings of the President between August 31 (after the President had returned to Washington) and September 10. But Tenet does not recall any discussions with the President of the domestic threat during this period. [p. 262]

    Chris Wallace has been a working journalist for 30 years. He served as chief white house correspondent for NBC, has been a network anchor, worked as a reporter and correspondent for ABC news for 15 years and won Emmys and Peabody awards. Olbermanlyhips has done what again? Hosted a sarcastic sports show and gotten cancelled from cable networks far and wide?

    Who's the monkey?

    You guys are really full of it! Nothing you rightwingnuts say is ever in historical context. If you do invoke history to make your arguments, the histrory you cite comes from MGM and RKO.
    For example, who created and initially funded Osama? Where was Osama from and what is his relationship to the government there? Another example: We were told by the UN weapons inspectors that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction by 1998 then again in 2002-03 after Hans Blix surveyed Iraq . Yet Bush and gang repeated the lie that Iraq had those weapons. No connections at all to Osama yet the lie was still told over and over by the Bushies.
    Real history is forgotten and Hollywood history is subsituted. Grow up and learn to read academic and scholarly works.

    didja see prezdent prissy bitch all huffy and irritable again in today's press conference? it's so darn annoying when people see you for the incompetant fool you are ... and start calling you on all your lies and bullshit ... instead of sucking them down with the Kool-Aid like the resident ignorami here at OW.

    all hat and no cattle ... i think Edward R Olbermann said it best:

    "But for this president. To hear him bleat and whine and bully at nearly every opportunity, one would think someone else had been president on September 11, 2001 or the nearly eight months that preceded it. That hardly reflects the honestly nor manliness we expect of the executive. But if his own fitness to serve is of no true concern to him, perhaps we should simply sigh and keep our fingers crossed until a grown-up takes the job three Januarys from now."

    TCB:

    "rightwingnuts"
    "Bush and his gang"
    "Lied"

    Keep up the good words/work- you and Keith are gonna make the Republican's win(s) a LANDSLIDE :)

    TCB, what are you talking about? J$ and Robert run circles around the libs that argue on this site.....check the archives. You guys use demagogery and lies.

    Those few points you make only have relevance to the conspiracy mongers on the left.

    Why did your liberal representaties (Kerry, Clinton, Edwards) say there were WMD's in Iraq in 2003 if we all knew there weren't there back in 1998? It is clear that there was not concensus on the status of WMD's in IRAQ in 2003 and many thought Saddam was restarting the program (including our own CIA and British Intellegence).

    for the midterms, it couldn't be worse timing for the grand oil party to have the NIE come out at the same time as Clinton's Faux interview. Karl wanted to downplay the dismal failure that's Iraq ... in favor of stoking the broader "WAR ON TERROR" fear card. and now the topic is back to Iraq. perfect.

    folks are catching on that if it's true that Iraq is central to the WOT (which is wasn't/isn't) then BushCo has not only FUBARed Iraq but also the WOT.

    To all those who keep predicating that the Republicans will hold and even increase seats in congress after the November elections, be sure to stop in here at OW and bleat these same claims the day after the elections are over. Then we can all laugh at you!

    Annon- until those on the left offer an actual PLAN to keep us safe from the savages who want to kill us (even the libs!), then, those rightwingnuts will continue to spank the defeatocrats in every election

    Bush = evil, we get it. You don't like his plan or what he's done.

    Where's you plan?!?

    (PS- hating Bush is NOT a plan)

    "didja see prezdent prissy bitch all huffy and irritable again in today's press conference? it's so darn annoying when people see you for the incompetant fool you are ... and start calling you on all your lies and bullshit ... instead of sucking them down with the Kool-Aid like the resident ignorami here at OW."

    The american public knows a petulant fool when they see one. And it doesn't get any better in prime time than seeing "The Testy President" replay his hilarious WOT dog and pony show. And the more he replays it, the bigger fool he appears. And that would be true even if he wasn't such a miserable fuckup. But when you combine the failed reality on the ground (comprehensible only to non-repubs) with his failed communications, it is just too much fun to watch. Can't wait to hang the bastard. Financially, at the very least. Bushy will be tied up in court for years after this. A Dem would never pardon him, and the Repubs would be admitting malfeasance to do so. And as soon as he's completely lame, the RNC will throw Georgie under the bus for sure -- just for a chance in '08. No honor among thieves. Stick a fork in Testy George, he's just about done.

    "Bush = evil, we get it. You don't like his plan or what he's done. Where's your plan?!?"

    one of the most fantastic falacies perpetuated by the right -- the left has no plan, the left has no alternative, the left has no solution. when you continue to hit yourself over the head with a hammer, it is a sufficient policy plan to simply say, "Stop". the vast majority of george bush's failed policies -- domestic and foreign -- could be greatly improved simply by ending them.

    YES- Annon, you go GIRL!
    "Petulant"
    "Fool"
    "Testy"
    "Miserable Fuckup"
    "Bastard"
    "Lame"
    "Georgie"
    "Thieves"

    That's gotta be some kind of record! By the way, what was your PLAN again?

    The house will be held- rest assured. And the Democrats who have been heralding the outcome of these elections have to only look at their comments prior to the 2002 and 2004 elections. When will you learn that no ideas wins no elections. I expect you all to lie in bed the whole month of November when you see how your hate doesn't appeal to voters other than the left. Copy this email- plan to paste it in November- then throw it out in November when you lose. You don't get it.

    Annon...

    I thought I made myself clear, but I will "dumb it down" for you libs.

    YOU DON'T LIKE BUSH'S "FAILED" POLICIES. HIS PLAN IS A FAILURE. We get it.

    Once we "STOP" Hitler's - uh, I mean Bush's - policies, what do the Dems actually want to DO?

    Dialogue with Iran?
    Hold hands with Chavez?
    Draft a strongly worded letter from the UN?

    This is why you are going to lose. You have plenty of names (and potty mouths) but have you any actual ideas to keep us safe?

    (PS- and don't give the generic "Kill Bin Laden" or "More Money for Homeland Security")

    If NBC continues to allow Krazy Keith to use Meltdown as a podium for his lunatic diatribes and cheap shots on colleagues, GE shareholders will eventually revolt and call for his head. Keith's childish attacks on colleagues Bill O'Reilly, Rita Cosby, Geraldo Rivera, Katie Couric, ED Hill, Nancy Grace, John Gibson, Chris Wallace, etc. etc. etc. has burnt all his bridges of any future employment in TVland. His eventual on-air implosion will land him in the land of relative obscurity (i.e. Dan Patrick's radio show).

    "Keith's ... has burnt all his bridges of any future employment in TVland."

    "Keith will never work in this town again!" -- Olbermannwatch, 2004
    "Keith will never work in this town again!" -- Olbermannwatch, 2005
    "Keith will never work in this town again!" -- Olbermannwatch, 2006

    Annon...
    Still waiting on your PLAN...
    (not holding my breath)

    My plan is to yell "Stop" or I will yell "Stop" again.

    Annon...
    Still waiting on your PLAN...


    Job #1: US out of Iraq.

    pivotal to the WOT it ain't. most insurgents are locals, not imports, fighting against an occupier, fighting for control of the country. fine. let them. pullout a signal of lack of U.S. resolve? not so much. better to come from a costly quagmire than live in one. incomparable to Beirut pullout -- which did not cause/encourage 9/11 ... Desert Storm did that. power vacuume after U.S. leaves? not so much. Iran has an even less chance of controlling Iraq than we do. especially after their history. strain on the global oil market? not so much. the strain when we leave will be less than it is now. (besides, we won't be leaving entirely, just a large public pullout ... don't forget the permanent bases ... there will always be 10-20K U.S. troops in Iraq.)

    I didn't watch him making that comment but you guys are really trying to equate this to racism? Are you all fucking nuts?

    Second, I think this is just another ploy to divert attention from what Clinton actually said in the Wallace interview. I have not seen anyone dispute anything Clinton said, care to help me understand where Clinton lied?

    Because if you look at the facts Bush reall did demote the only person taking terrorism seriously in this country. Bush really did throw out Clinton's plan to attack the Taliban. Bush's administration really did say that retaliating against the cole would be a bad idea. The right wing really did want Clinton to withdraw from Samolia. The right really did claim Clinton trying to get Al Queda was just "wag the dog". Bush really did ignore a PDB that said Bin Laden was determined to strike the US. Fox news really did fail to ask any of this during the 23 times they had Bush administration officials on the program yet pounced on this as soon as Clinton came on.

    So please, you truth deprived right wing extremists, tell me where any of that is not accurate.

    Annon...

    Please. Help me help you.
    We all KNOW that the dems want to cut and run. Pulling out of Iraq is a given.

    My question is what do you do AFTER you abandon the people of Iraq? What do you do when the insurgents(aka Iran and Syria) take over?

    What do you do to protect us?

    We know you don't like evesdropping on suspected terrorists, we all know you don't like the Patriot Act, we all know you want the savages at Gitmo freed.

    So what do you DO?

    check out drudge ... the Wallace/Clinton/Bush/Condi/Hilary cat-and-dog fight is escalating. FANTASTIC. the DNC can thank their lucky stars on this one. costly exposure for the hapless repubs. boy i'll bet karl's pissed. the NIE and clinton's interview were not part of the plan. and any time you've got a messy, personalized, national debate on whether clinton or bush fucked up 9/11, OsamaHunt, Iraq, and the WOT. you know it ain't good for incumbents. very cool.

    Let me ask you something.

    What do you do once we are forced out of there like we were forced out of Vietnam? Do you right wingers have any reason left in that small brain of yours? We will never win this conflict, we lost if a long time ago. Eventually we will have to pull out, no amount of kool aide you drink will ever change that. This war was lost when your hero Bush didn't want to listen to top generals recommending more troops and better plans to deal with an insurgency. As the NIE said this conflict is only creating more terrorists each day we stay in there. This thing will go on, if idiots like you have a say in it, until every last Iraqi is dead and the country is nothing.

    Annon's Plan:

    "Messy, personalized, national debate on whether Clinton or Bush fucked up 9/11"

    Very cool indeed.

    (Republicans are going to win in a landslide)

    The message above is not from steve posted on September 26, 2006 04:13 PM, it is from me addressed to Steve. Sorry about that.

    IF the republicans lose seats in the mid-term elections, we can always scream "DIEBOLD STOLE THE ELECTION" and "THAT'S NOT MY CONGRESS." And come up with conspiracy theories as to why we lost those seats. Or, which will more than likely happen, the party will figure out how to regain those seats and retain the Executive Branch the following election cycle.

    "My question is what do you do AFTER you abandon the people of Iraq?"

    not abandoning, liberating from occupation. and since most of them now want us to leave (from polls repubs deny) we'd be doing them a big favor.

    . . .

    What do you do when the insurgents(aka Iran and Syria) take over?

    they won't. Iran [syria, etc.] has an even less chance of controlling Iraq than we do. especially after their history.

    . . .

    What do you do to protect us?

    spend the 10 billion a month from Iraq on national security ... here at home. the "fight them over there" line is a load of crap. and i'm not talking isolationism, either. i'm talking prudent foreign involvements, not incompetant foreign entaglements, like Iraq.

    . . .

    We know you don't like evesdropping on suspected terrorists, we all know you don't like the Patriot Act, we all know you want the savages at Gitmo freed.

    Return to FISA.
    Repeal Patriot.
    Close Gitmo.
    Re-instate Geneva ... and all which it implies ... for detainment/prosecution/etc.

    .
    .
    .

    this ISN'T a different kind of war.
    9/11 DIDN'T change everything.
    you use the same constitutional tools you always have ... but instead, when someone sends you a memo titled, "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." you do something about it, instead of vacationing in Crawford for a month.

    Thanks for the ID props, Skeptical...

    Back to the issue, my question (originally) was to Annon, in reference to any general PLAN as to protecting us from the savages that want to kill us (even you).

    It my surprise you that DO think that we will (and should) eventually withdrawl from Iraq. But, my point was/is: Since we're there- what is the Dem's P L A N ?

    Withdraw tomorrow?
    Next Week?
    Leave any US forces there?

    Liberals/Democrats don't like Bush.
    They don't like his policies/plans.
    What is there's?

    And please, no more generalized "Quagmire" or "Vietnam" references. Your last Vietnam Hero (you know, Mr. I won't release my military records, but I'll let CBS broadcast fake ones of my opponent) wasn't too coherent on policy issues either.

    Simple enough question (or so I thought- since no one seems to be able to answer it). Try to answer it without the histerical rants.

    Annon said:

    "this ISN'T a different kind of war.
    9/11 DIDN'T change everything. "

    WoW.

    I guess that kinda says it all, doesn't it?


    MEDIAMATTERS lie by Skeptical #1.....

    "Fox news really did fail to ask any of this during the 23 times they had Bush administration officials on the program yet pounced on this as soon as Clinton came on"

    Chris Wallace HIMSELF asked Rummy about pre-9/11 misses and not going after OBL - 3/28/2004....look it up in the FOX archive.

    This was Clinton's first interview on FOX....why not ask him about what he did about OBL? Why get angry about it? Just answer the question man. Clinton was wrong in suggesting FOX people never asked the current administration tough questions about what was NOT done to avoid 9/11.

    Do you want me to continue to dissect what was wrong with the B.J. rant?

    "this ISN'T a different kind of war.
    9/11 DIDN'T change everything."

    I simply cannot debate someone with this kind of mindset. There can be no debate with someone who will not admit to the very basic of fundamental facts.

    Its like arguing that the sky is NOT blue.

    WoW (again)

    MEDIAMATTERS lie by Skeptical #2......

    "Bush really did throw out Clinton's plan to attack the Taliban."

    9/11 testimony by SANDY BERGER....

    BERGER: Now, the second question you asked — which comes off of the “Time” magazine story, I think — was there a plan that we turned over to the Bush administration during the transition? I could address that.

    The transition, as you will recall, was condensed by virtue of the election in November. I was very focused on using the time that we had — I had been on the other side of a transition with General Scowcroft in 1992. But we used that time very efficiently to convey to my successor the most important information — what was going on and what situations they faced.

    Number one among those was terrorism and Al Qaida. And I told that to my successor. She has acknowledged that publicly, so I’m not violating any private conversation. We briefed them fully on what we were doing — on what else was under consideration and what the threat was. I personally attended part of that briefing to emphasize how important that was.

    But THERE WAS NO WAR PLAN (I added emphasis) that we turned over to the Bush administration during the transition. And the reports of that are just incorrect.

    Do you want me to continue to dissect further?

    "this ISN'T a different kind of war. 9/11 DIDN'T change everything." I simply cannot debate someone with this kind of mindset.

    suite yourself.

    . . .

    There can be no debate with someone who will not admit to the very basic of fundamental facts. Its like arguing that the sky is NOT blue.

    no, it's like arguing that 9/11 did not change everything. you can't pre-load an analogy like "the sky is blue -- but you refuse to see it." we are not disagreeing on the color of the sky.

    the NineElevenChangedEverything argument is just that. an argument. you see it that way. i don't.

    you know how when the leftys here exclaim that our civil liberties are being infringed ... and the standard response from the rightys here is "what civil rights have been infringed?! show me! name one!"

    well, by the same token ... 9/11 did not change everything. how are our lives different, day to day, after 9/11?

    gas prices? they went down after 9/11.
    airline security? sure, but how many people fly and how many times a year and how terribly "inconvenienced" are they?
    3K dead and 30K wounded? that's an ELECTIVE change. one begat by bushy.

    where are the changes in our day to day lives that changed everything? tell me.

    9/11 did not change everything ... where are the changes in our day to day lives that changed everything? tell me.

    Still waiting on your response ...
    (not holding my breath)

    Cee, media matters did not lie. They said exactly what you said. The problem is they asked Rummy this once, no body else. They had Bush on, they had Rice on, they had Cheney on, never asking about the cole. If anything that is my mistake that I didn't point out that out of 23 times and 4 different administration officials they asked this once. If that really going to be your argument for Fox News, that they asked such an important question once?

    "Mediamatters lie #2 Bush really did throw out Clinton's plan to attack the Taliban" Show me where mediamatters makes this claim. Now show me where clinton says this. I might be wrong on this, I will need to double check. I know that they threw out a report Clinton did on terrorism and appointed Cheney to do the same thing, something he didn't get to until after 9/11.

    And yes, please, do disect further.

    Steve, I asked you a question. The fact your post was address to someone else doesn't change that. Do you actually believe this war will ever be won? If you do I want to hear your plan as to how that will happen.

    Please, do tell me that staying the course is the best way to go.

    Cee, one more thing I want to add. Is that really your argument as to why Bush didn't attack the Taliban to get revenge for the Cole, because Clinton didn't hand him a formal plan, only a recommendation? Yes, attacking me because I confused a recommendation and a plan makes the fact Bush didn't act completely valid *roll's eyes*.

    And I would still like you to show me a single lie Clinton told in that interview, you haven't caught one. You only caught me making small trivial mistakes.

    And steve, one more thing. The fact you would doubt a veterans record is absolutely shameful. You people have no decency. This guy risked his life for your country, he didn't go awol like Bush did. What you are trying to do is border line treason. Did you serve in Vietnam? I don't know you but I'm still going to say I don't fucking think so.

    In the five years since the attacks, the ability of Americans to dust themselves off and keep going explains both what's gone right and what's gone wrong on our path to the divided and dispirited state the nation finds itself in today. The terrorists failed to break America's back. The ''new'' normal lasted about 10 minutes, except at airport check-ins. The economy, for all its dips and inequities and runaway debt, was not destroyed. The culture, for better and worse, survived intact. Before 9/11, Americans feasted on reality programs, nonstop coverage of child abductions and sex scandals. Five years later, they still do.

    At the National Cathedral prayer service on Sept. 14, 2001, President Bush said: ''Today we feel what Franklin Roosevelt called 'the warm courage of national unity.' This is the unity of every faith and every background. It has joined together political parties in both houses of Congress.'' What's more, he added, ''this unity against terror is now extending across the world.'' The destruction of that unity, both in this nation and in the world, is as much a cause for mourning on the fifth anniversary as the attack itself. As we can't forget the dead of 9/11, we can't forget how the only good thing that came out of that horror, that unity, was smothered in its cradle. And so here we are five years later. Fearmongering remains unceasing. So do tax cuts for the rich. So does the war against a country that did not attack us on 9/11. We have moved on, but no one can argue that we have moved ahead.

    Skeptical,

    WALLACE: I asked a question. You don’t think that’s a legitimate question?

    CLINTON: It was a perfectly legitimate question but I want to know how many people in the Bush administration you asked this question of. I want to know how many people in the Bush administration you asked why didn’t you do anything about the Cole. I want to know how many you asked why did you fire Dick Clarke.

    The answer is.... 1)Wallace asked at least ONE Bushie, there's your answer. You may say, "more people should have been asked," but Clinton's implication is that FOX NEVER asked the tough questions.

    Oh, another lie.....Dick Clarke was not fired! He left after not becoming Director of Homeland Security.

    Lastly, please answer the point of A PLAN, specifically. Clinton implied there was a specific PLAN, and the 9/11 Report shows that this was not the case.

    9/11 did not change everything ... where are the changes in our day to day lives that changed everything? tell me.

    Still waiting on your response ...
    (not holding my breath)

    Cee, that is a lie. Wallace never asked Rummy about the Cole. Read up on that and come back.

    Nobody said he was fired, he was demoted. Let me help you out:

    http://www.answers.com/demoted&r=67

    To reduce in grade, rank, or status.

    He was in fact reduced in status when he went to the Bush administration from the position he had under Clinton. Anything else you want to call a lie Ms Cee.

    In case you are wondering, the DUmmies have linked Olbermann Watch and encouraged their readers to "taunt" the clear-thinking readers of this site.

    If you want to taunt the Olbermann-haters, go here>
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2221264#2223207

    Of course, don't bother to try that over there - those supposed champions of free speech will ban you if you don't tow the party line. And WE are the Nazis? Ha!

    If Olbynutjobb was not doing such a good job of getting conservatives re-elected I would say he needs to apologize and then then needs to be fired. But like Michael Moore before him he does more to help the conservative cause than hurt it. Americans see this pseudo-reporter-lunatic Olbermann and recognize him as the perfect poster boy for the fringe lunatic leftists with Bush derangement syndrome. Olbermann and his lemmings are so blind and wrapped up in their own little world they cannot see that they are the reason that Republicans control the White House and Congress. No matter their little pathetic sheep like bleatings the democrats who have become controlled by the far far left wing socialist fringe cannot and will not ever be able to gain power until they come back to their senses.
    Olbermann is the perfect example of what is truly wrong with the left wingnuts in America. Olbermann gives Klinton a check before the interview, practically slobbers all over him during the interview, asks him all sofball , patronizing questions and then has the stupidity to question and chastise Chris Wallace . Olbermann would not know real journalism if it jumped up,and smacked him in his stupid looking face.
    Then the liberal lemmings come here and try to defend this pathetic liberal shill. It's almost the perfect liberal trifecta. klitnon wags his finger and says he is not lying, olbernuttjob parctically gives klinton a BJ on national tv and then criticizes a real reporter for having the gall to ask klinton a real question. No wonder sane people agree that liberalism is a mental disorder.
    Olbernuttjob will never apologize. he is too brain dead and self absorbed and bias to even see his embarrassing stupidity. I just cannot fathom how MSNBC can sustain having this sorry little man on their network. But Olby does do the public a service. he shows just how nutty and hypocritical the far left wingnut fringe is.

    Bush's most disasterous sociopolitical legacy is not that he fucked up Iraq (which he did) ... it's that he fucked up the WOT. he damaged international relations with haughty/failed unilateralism. he damaged the military with stopgap deployments to fight the wrong country with insuff armor and a war done on-the-cheap. he damaged america's rep with torture redefinitions accompanied by false and indignant "we do not torture" statements. he damaged america's street cred with WMDs. and worst of all, he squandered a half a trillion dollars, 30K troops -- and american resolve -- fighting the wrong country.

    The word monkey is code for his jihadi audience. Its what muslims call jews.

    Is Clintons putting a "contract" out on Osama a human rights violation. What will Human Rights Watch say? Nothing Clintons a left wing whacko. Once a felon always a felon.

    Robert:

    What a shock that the DUmpster Divers and Kossacks are trying to spam this iste. This is like what they did to Anklebitingpundits.com whenever they expose a poll as bogus. When they have nothing to say of substance, they just try to shut down a site.

    But don't question their patriotism. Actually, in their deranged world, this is "patriotism", ,just like reestablishing the Fairness Doctrine and trying to revoke the licenses of ABC over the 9/11 movie and FNC in general.

    Bush is awesome lowering gas prices for mid-terms. You gotta love Bush/Cheney/Rove they are beating the stuffing out of the Dumo-crats. Ouch thats gotta hurt and gonna leave a mark. Laugh My Ass Off at O'leilly and Co.

    Great comment by Jack Fowler at http://media.nationalreview.com/. Entitled 'Olbermann Crazed', it ends brilliantly with the statement, "Obviously someone is Cukoo for Coco Puffs."

    Hey dummy you can't eff up international relations when every other country and 30% of this one openly root against us. Bushs legacy is assured. Dead terrorists and lower taxs, below 5% un-employment, Blacks actually put in power positions Powell,Rice. And hopefully another slot on supreme court for Janice Rogers Brown. Thats gotta hurt you lefties....Ouch.

    "until those on the left offer an actual PLAN to keep us safe from the savages..."

    You will never be safe. There will always be madmen, and technology will gradually give them more individual power. The question is whether you are more safe or less safe. The current "plan" is making you less safe, and less honorable, in a pie-eyed attempt to eliminate that which cannot be eliminated. It is as counterproductive as kicking the stump that stubbed your toe.

    "The plan" is to stop making the problem worse by being horrendously incompetent and thinking an agressive, oversimplified fantansy about how the world works is a "plan." It isn't. The plan is to stop looking only at the religiously optimistic upside of actions and consider the full risk-reward ramifications.

    The plan is to stop looking for shortcuts by which terrorism and risk can be eliminated, at its source or anywhere else, and start thinking about how we can develop the best permanent defense and intelligence framework possible. This means creating strong and lasting institutions geared towards a long, slow fight, rather than treating this as a acute emergency to be dealt with through adhoc executive fiat and altering our values on the fly. We have to invest in these institutions on a level approaching what we have spent in Iraq. And we have to avoid cratering them out by admitting the corrosive practice of torture.

    Given our nuclear arsenal, rational self interest is our best friend. There has never been, and will never be, a nation of madmen. And there will always be madmen. And we will always have to watch them. But we need to remember that as champions of enlightenment, we have friends everywhere, and these friends must be slowly and continuously cultivated and strengthened. Everything must be gaged in regard to this gradual cultivation, because in the end reform of these questionable regimes will only come from within. Forcing it will backfire. It has. It does. It will.

    We need to cultivate and aid the forces of reason and reform in places like Iran, rather than shutting them off and strengthening their unstable adversaries. We need to stop lending credence to religious irrationalism in the world by giving it more than the official cold shoulder our founders did. We need to regain the moral force that won the cold war, and recognize that many of our adventures in that war delayed our ultimate victory, which was guaranteed by reason and nature. We win by standing for good in the world, and letting the world come to us, not by trying to stamp out evil in a neverending game of whack-a-mole that eventually tempts us to frustration and evil. That does not make us safer. We need to realize that in the long term, we do not win by compromising our values of humanity or making them relative to our enemies. Over the long haul, we win by standing on those values, despite the short term risks.

    During the later part of the cold war, all of us lived with a nuclear Sword of Damocles hanging over our head. Every man, woman, and child. And we did not flinch. We did not rewrite our constitution. We did not claim that the vast nature of the threat, unprecedented in history--the potential end of human life on earth--meant all the rules of honor and humanity had to be revisited and reconsidered. That was moral clarity. It is why we won.

    We cannot be sure the same will prove true for this fight, which is as different in nature as it is less apocalyptic in scope and more difficult to define as "won" or "lost." But if America is the last best hope of the world, then this is how it is so: That faced with this uncertainty, we will stand with principles of enlightenment, openness, and rational humanity as a matter of fundamental faith.

    That's the speech.

    The program:
    Iraq: Date certain drawdown (50%) and redeployment to a few stable areas from which to base support operations to the Iraqi government. Support for Iraqi federalism.

    Afghanistan: Moderate increase in troop levels, increased aid for infrastructure and development programs, end drug interdiction efforts and allow the legalization and regulation of poppy industry to remove this card from the warlords.

    Absolute legal prohibition on torture and inhumane treatment as defined in the Geneva conventions. Anyone caught mistreating a detainee is subject to legal prosecution.

    All standard military legal protections for suspects captured abroad. All standard U.S. legal protections for suspects captured domestically.

    Delayed judicial oversight of domestic intelligence (delayed warrant search and seizure, but a judge has to review the case at some point.) No completely warrantless, secret, single branch evesdropping)

    Massive increase in intelligence funding.

    Iran: Massive pr campaign to define the differences between Iran's closed religious totalitarian society and our open secular society. This would be aimed at bolstering the powerfull reformist element in Iran.

    No brinksmanship over enrichment, only actual weapon development. Make clear that we will consider evidence of the development of a nuclear weapon in Iran under the current regime, in light of their claims and statements, to be a provoction that warrants forcible response. Specifically, we will consider the development of a nuclear weapon by this particular regime on par with the use of a nuclear weapon.

    I think the Dems would push all of this except for the last one, but it still could be implemented with a coalition of dem hawks and republicans.

    Hey idiot. Clinton left the unemployment rate at just above 3%, Bush is still OVER (not under) 5%. And it took 6 years for him to actually drop it. Home prices are dropping, inflation is increasing.

    Taxes are lower only for rich people leading to huge deficits. And wow, he has a couple black people in his cabinet, are you guys really that obsessed with race that you need to bring it up all the time?

    When will you idiots wake the fuck up?

    Erie Bob, thank you for delivering the best bitch smacking I have seen on this site. And I still haven't gotten a reply from Steve on how he thinks this war could be won.

    Skeptical,

    Clinton said FIRED, not demoted, not reassigned. Plus, Clarke has his own agenda and reason to spin as well, so stick with the facts in the 9/11 Comission report.

    Richard Clarke was employed by the government through 2001, he was not fired. He left on his own accord. Also, you say I lie about Rummy....

    http://patterico.com/2006/09/24/5187/chris-wallace-has-indeed-grilled-bush-officials-about-failing-to-get-osama-before-911/

    You and the leftists love to lie and trick. Keep it up, I enjoy the example you give of how your ilk work.

    I love that they seem to think that no one can dare criticize their Gods or ask questions of their leaders. But yet they want to string up anyone who has ever voted for the GOP from the nearest tree. Nice group aren't they? And you can't go to their site and ask them any questions or point out facts to them, oh no, they delete and ban anyone who might off up a different opinion than the collective. How sad for them, but how great for us that we'll have more people here, reading this site, and more idiots to skewer when they try to post what they think are facts with reality. Like this reality that there is no spinning or lying your way out of:

    Olbermann got bitch-slapped by Paula Zahn, Nancy Grace, and Bill O'Reilly in the 3rd quarter ratings(July-September) in both the overall ratings and in the oh-so-sacred demo.

    And the ratings for just the month of September clearly reveal that he came in FOURTH behind Bill-O, Paula Zahn, and Nancy Grace in both overall and in the demo.

    Doesn't seem those "special comments" he's been doing are actually helping him ratings wise now are they?

    "You guys are really full of it! Nothing you rightwingnuts say is ever in historical context. If you do invoke history to make your arguments, the histrory you cite comes from MGM and RKO.
    For example, who created and initially funded Osama? Where was Osama from and what is his relationship to the government there? Another example: We were told by the UN weapons inspectors that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction by 1998 then again in 2002-03 after Hans Blix surveyed Iraq . Yet Bush and gang repeated the lie that Iraq had those weapons. No connections at all to Osama yet the lie was still told over and over by the Bushies.
    Real history is forgotten and Hollywood history is subsituted. Grow up and learn to read academic and scholarly works.

    Posted by: TCB at September 26, 2006 02:57 PM"

    Historical context hmmm. Heres some No more Saddam Hussein, Osama hiding in a cave, conservatives elected/re-elected in important allied countries Great Britain, Germany(for Germany shes conservative), Australia, Sweden, and Canada to name a few. The Hussein brothers co-reign of terror ended with bullets. Japan re-arming to combat Chinas military threat.

    And alls Clinton got was a blowjob and impeached.HEHEHE.

    I thought I'd seen it all, but growing up, I could never imagine anything as crazy as this.

    KO's show is actually about Fox News, he doesn't haven't any news, he has to pay his guests, he is at the bottom of the ratings, and he actually calls his show a news show. He tells people on air that he is doing well in the ratings, and tries to sell his book every night.

    Cee, I was going to post that I was wrong, sorry I didn't get in before you. I didn't have time to reread the transcript until just now. Clinton said fired there but he also said demoted, he was just a little fired up. Also, he was indeed fired from his old position under Clinton, Rice took his job and he was technically demoted, you can call that fired.

    And again, Clinton specifically talked about the Cole, Fox news never questioned anyone in this administration about the Cole. Reread what clinton said and then reread that interview about 9-11. Also, I do find it extremely odd that you right wingers diss on mediamatters so much yet that link pulls information out of mediamatters directly. Strage, no.

    So lets see just to be sure I am keeping track. So far the only real thing you got clinton on is that he said fired instead of democted (which can actually be true as he was fired from his old position and demoted). What else do you have clinton lying about?

    Do you dispute the right wing ridiculed Clinton for being obsessed with Bin Laden? I have the freerepublic links that can back this up if you would like me to post them.

    Do you dispute the right wing was screaming at clinton to pull out of Samolia?

    Do you dispute that Fox news never asked the questions they asked Clinton to Bush having him on a few times?

    Do you dispute that Bush did nothing after the Cole bombing to the taliban even after Clinton recommended action when leaving office?

    Do you dispute that Cheney did not do anything about the report he was supposed to do about terrorism until after 9/11?

    Do you dispute that Bush did nothing when he got a PDB that Bin Laden was determined to attack the US using planes and that the amount intelligence for an attack during that summer was unprecented?

    Do you deny any of this?

    And I love that you are one of those crazy ass right wingers that seems to believe Fox news doesn't have an agenda. Are you actually trying to suggest to me they asked the same tough questions of Republicans as they do of Democrats. Next you are going to tell me O'Reilly is really an independent and he checked republican on his voter registration card by accident. Give me a fucking break.

    Erie Bob,

    Yep that's some "plan"

    Iraq: retreat and split Iraq into three parts setting up a REAL civil war with us funding the Kurds and Iran funding the Shia. Next step World War III.

    Afghanistan: flood the market with Heroin.

    Put our men and women on the front lines of terror in jail for playing the Red Hot Chili Peppers at "11".

    Treat terrorists as if they are members of a legitimate army thereby removing ANY deterrant to other militant groups to do the same thereby increasing the risk to civilians and, de facto, legitimizing terrorism.

    Prevent the CIA from acting quickly on actionable intelligence so some judge can twiddle his thumbs while the bad guys escape.

    Massive increase in intelligence funding. OK

    Iran: A PR campaign in a closed society where the government controls all media and locks up dissidents?

    Iran: wait until they have a bomb THEN threaten them.

    Erie i'm sure all the future victims of terrorists will be so glad we took the high road and had the moral compass pointed in the right direction. Thats very,very sweet.

    I gotta better plan. Bomb them sons of bitchs back to the stone age. My plan doesnt cost much. Doesnt risk one soldier. Has a proven track record. Zero repeat offenders. And is a great deterent.

    Then we rush in and loot the oil.HEHE. My SUVs thirsty. HEHE. Take that DUers and KOssacks.

    Maybe you can help Steve, I think he can't go on. Do you believe the war in Iraq can be won? If you believe that what is your brilliant plan for winning that war and bringing our troops home with honor?

    Robert, again I fucked up, its been a very long day. I posted the above message, not "robert". I think all that pot us liberals smoke is rotting my brain ;).

    George, so your rational argument is saying just bomb the entire fucking middle east? I just want to make sure I am hearing this correctly.

    Yes. It must be the pot. And outlaw Islam the source of most of the violence in the world.

    Olbermann is just an on-screen character, like Ali G and the Church Lady right? RIGHT? His splittle-flinging moronic rants really are unappealing to us moderates. Calling another journalist -- an acomplished journalist with awards and everything -- a monkey really does cross a line. And this is ultimately why KO won't be anything other than low-rated sideshow freak in the Media Circus. No offense to sideshow freaks, natch. If he doesn't issue a personal apology to Wallace, it will prove that KO doesn't recognize or respect anyone with actual journalistic talent.

    If the shrill, deranged members of the far-left want this to be their "watershed moment" of Speaking Truth to Teh Power, it really does not bode well for Democrats.

    Olbermann is just an on-screen character, like Ali G and the Church Lady right? RIGHT? His splittle-flinging moronic rants really are unappealing to us moderates. Calling another journalist -- an acomplished journalist with awards and everything -- a monkey really does cross a line. And this is ultimately why KO won't be anything other than low-rated sideshow freak in the Media Circus. No offense to sideshow freaks, natch. If he doesn't issue a personal apology to Wallace, it will prove that KO doesn't recognize or respect anyone with actual journalistic talent.

    If the shrill, deranged members of the far-left want this to be their "watershed moment" of Speaking Truth to Teh Power, it really does not bode well for Democrats.

    I think he should be forced to apologize and then fired. Bypass the suspension and clean out his office.

    Uhhh, duhhhh Skeptical....look at the name of the website you are posting on.......Agenda driven "news" seems to be a growing trend.

    I at no time said FOX was agenda free. I never mentioned O'Reilly. I make some pointed comments about B.J. and you assume I am a wingnut. Typical.

    Any idiot can see O'Reilly is conservative. Fine, I knew that 5 minutes into his show when I watched it for the first time. Olbermann on the otherhand calls himself a, "journalist" and then goes on to present an agenda-driven news show. That's how the left works, THEY LIE. O'Reilly has never claimed to be impartial, but he sure does allow different points of view to come on his show.....Rivera, Sharpton, Rangel, etc.

    What does Olbermann do, he gives himself over ten minutes of airtime to preach. O'Reilly at least keeps his commentary to under 3 minutes!

    With regards to Chris Wallace, I think if you took his work through the years and examined it with some objectivity, you would not come to the conclusion that he is a bottle-throwing right winger. But if anyone poses a tough question to your hero, he must have an agenda. Media people are even coming to Wallace's defense....

    http://insidecable.blogsome.com/2006/09/26/opinion-olbermann-crosses-a-line/

    And as far as your frothing at the mouth request I deny your selective points....fine I will grant you each point if it will shut you up.

    But rest assured, the "normal" people in this great country of ours (nonideologues, unlike you) are more concerned about who will protect them in the future....and it is my humble opinion that leftists (like you) who consistantly

    want lower military spending,
    want more rights for terrorists,
    want open borders,
    want Saddam Hussein in power,
    support the destruction of Israel,
    do not want intellegence gathering or terrorist fund tracing.....

    are incapable of keeping me and my family safe.

    Hey skeptical,

    Hows your plan working in New Orleans? New York? Detroit? Philly? Baltimore? These places are semi war zones with high murder rates. Similar by per capita population to Iraq in violence. Cause you do gooders dont exactly have a model of success where you currently have leadership roles. What i mean is Los Angeles could easily be called a quagmire,because it is. If you could name maybe one successful plan you lefties have had maybe i would listen. Like the war on poverty? Abject failure.

    Clinton was useing your plan and alls we got was more of the same only bigger attacks each time. So pardon me if after Madrid, London, Bali, Beslan i think i gotta feel for what needs done. Pay now or Pay later but the bill will come due.

    Yes, George Patton, you are an idiot. I try to have rational discussions around here but you aren't worth a reply.

    Cee, I do respect the fact you are willing to admit O'Reilly is on the far right, to be perfectly honest I probably misjudged you, for that I apologize, today has been a pissy day at work.

    I wish I could believe you are open to all kinds of ideas but that doesn't seem to pass the smell test. So let me ask you this, do you actually believe Bush took the terrorist threat as seriously as Clinton did? Or maybe I should begin this question by asking you if you even believe Clinton took the threat seriously.

    To be perfectly honest I have not followed Wallace's career and to be even more honest I won't bother to do much research on it as it is a waste of my time. What I do know is now he is on Fox News and he is about as far left as the media has.

    Yes, this is an olbermann "watch" site. This might suprise you but Olbermann is not a hero of mine nor will he ever be. I would love nothing more than to see fairness in the media, but as right wing as the media has gotten these days Olbermann is a breath of fresh air. Yes, he does say stupid things sometimes as every other commentator. Yes, he makes factual mistakes just like everyone else on TV. However, a lot of what he says is factual, factual information missing from all the other media outlets. Granted, a lot of it is biased. But this is a site ran by people that dedicate an entire IP address and hours of their time each day to splitting apart everything a guy that gets 300,000-500,000 viewers a night says yet as they said don't really care that ABC which airs direct lies about Clinton's efforts to capture Osama Bin Laden which will reach millions of people.

    To give this site credit they allow liberals like me to post opposing views and I respect that. I wish olbermann would do the same with the other side. But until the media starts reporting all the facts, until fox news really becomes fair and balanced, as far as I'm concerned Olbermann is a good thing to happen to american media.

    I apologize for grammar and spelling errors on this post and anything else I posted above, I am too tired to reread everything.

    Cee, I did not read the last part of your post. I will just wait to see if you disprove that yourself when you respond to if you think Clinton was more serious about catching Osama than Bush was.

    Judging by viewership your in the minority Skep.
    And judging by most standards when it comes to KO. If hes a breath of fresh air you need to get out of the bathroom more often.

    The media cant report all the facts accurately or we would cease to have a 2 party system anymore. The truth would do in a week what it's taken years for the Kennedys, Boxers, Pelosi and Schumers to do, ruin the Democrat party beyond repair.

    My last word on this (because I have to leave work now to go home) is that Bill Clinton was a superficial President. He governed like he got elected, presented a great product but ran shallow. Were there good people in the U.S. Government doing their duty in the military, CIA and FBI under his administration?.... Absolutely....just like there are now, under Bush. Bill Clinton cannot claim he prevented 9/11, and neither can Bush.....so, guess what, IT DOESN'T MATTER. It's the past.

    So, in answering your question, no, Clinton was not more serious about catching Osama than Bush was (is). But, like I said, it doesn't matter.

    What seems to have Olbysnit twisting in his thong is his paranoid view that Bush and his "people" want to blame Clinton for 9/11......PLEASE PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE FOR THIS ASSERTION!

    It seems that you and the left of this country want to blame Bush. You're wrong and nothing you have posted supports the idea that 9/11 was Bush's fault.

    In fact, I blame the islamofascists that planned, supported and undertook the mission. The left hardly mentions them anymore!

    Who cares about Clinton.....as far as I'm concerned he should act more like Ford and Bush I.

    So, history will have to wait until the harsh political climate passes.....All I know is that 9/11 happened and I don't want it to happen again. Bush is my President, I support his policies. I worry that liberals want to weaken our national security so they can attain the power they so passionately crave.

    End of posting.

    Cee, I'm sorry but you seem brainwashed to me. You just said that people will vote based on who can protect them more. Yet you are willing to vote for the guy that did nothing about Al Queda before 9/11 and then claim the guy that tried hard (as you admitted) but admittingly failed wasn't good at protecting the american people. Then you are willing to trun around and say the same people that ridiculed Clinton for trying too hard should be in charge of our national security. Do you see how I can not make sense of that? Explain to me what I am missing.

    And don't get me wrong, I am certainly not trying to say Bush could have prevented this. What I am saying is he didn't try while Clinton did. I would rather have the guy that tried be responsible for my families safety.

    Skeptical "I have not seen anyone dispute anything Clinton said"

    Pure comedy gold!

    And I support Clinton's basic case. Why did he have to venture into hyperbole (and beyond) and act so defensive?

    The fact check storm will last the balance of this week and when it's over poor Bill will have lost the middle (bad news for Hillary).

    "Cee, I'm sorry but you seem brainwashed to me"

    "What I am saying is he didn't try while Clinton did"

    Yeah. Cee's brainwashed all right.

    The right's criticism of Clinton (that I don't share) is that he got cold feet when he had chances. Skeptical's criticism of the right is that Bush didn't even care if islamists were planning on killing Americans. The right's support is essentially public testimony. What is your support Skeptical? It seems you would have to read Bush's mind to know how he felt about islamists attacking America on 9/10.

    Anonymous, do you even know what the hell you are talking about? Bush did not try. But I'll play your stupid little game of not listening to reason, tell me, what actions did Bush take before 9/11 to combat al queda? I'm dying to know this.

    You guys have absolutely no regard for the truth. I simply do not understand how those small brains of yours work. You can not defend your position, you can not answer simple questions, yet you will stand on top of a mountain and yell that you are right and liberals are evil.

    You right-wing Nazis are a joke, the world thought that the Nazi party died after WWII, ha, you went underground and hid in the suburbs, behind your business suits. You call yourselves patriots; you are all a bunch of greedy bigots. If this were the 1770's, you would be on the sides of the red coats, or don't you know where the term conservative comes from. Conservatives want to keep the status quoi. You are afraid of change, afraid of minorities, afraid of anything outside your protective bubble that u live in. Hell yes I'm a Liberal. Liberal kicked the Brits back across the Atlantic, and founded this great country. Conservatives want to break down all the wonderful things that liberal have fought for. Example, abolition of slavery, civil rights, clean air, clean drinking water, national forests, public education, safe automobiles, public safety, etc, etc. Hell yes I'm a Liberal. Think about it, you can't make a conservative argument that doesn't include greed, and/or bigotry, and/or stupidity.

    Hank,
    There are more Democrats (37%) than Republicans (33%) in this country.

    Steve,
    How dumb does one have to be to be talking about a Republican landslide? Are percentages and polls too difficult for you to understand?

    Cee,
    RICE: We were not presented with a plan.

    BOB KERREY, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: Well, that's not true. It is not...

    RICE: We were not presented. We were presented with...

    KERREY: I've heard you say that, Dr. Clarke, that 25 January, 2001, memo was declassified, I don't believe...

    RICE: That January 25 memo has a series of actionable items having to do with Afghanistan, the Northern Alliance.

    Here's the plan Bush wasn't handed.
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/clarke%20memo.pdf


    Colbert the polls have been wrong before.. very wrong. Polls are bullshit anyway. in 1994 the polls did not indicate a republican landslide and other polls since have always seem to favor the dems . I thought that maybe yuou had enough intelligence to know that poll questions can be manipulated to get a pre-determined response.
    here is a poll for you taken at purely face value - O'rielly gets about 6 times the viewership of the olbytard. Fox news beats any other news outlet hands down. Bush won in '04.
    I know that the presidential elections are two years away but Klinton never got a majority of voters to vote for him . Perot was the only way Klinton won.
    hey chavez you leftards are no minute men. if there were liberals back in 1776 you leftards would have done their hair, kissed thier asses and we would all be british subjects . You lefties are NOT the patriots you think you are. You sond like a por gay guy upset beacuse the big bad conservatives won't let you laughingly get married.
    Did you know that Bush has a more diverse cabinet than Klinton did.
    do you know that Bush signed a bill protecting the largest saltwater reef in the US?
    Do you realize that the left wing of the democrat party has policies and ideas more analogous to Hitler and Stalin that any conservative?
    SHOW ME one statement just ONE that any conservative advocates slavery????? Linclon was a republican you leftard.
    the left' idea of "public safety" is negating the second ammendment thus leaving America's populace unarmed against criminals. OK you are a libera; Chavez but like most liberals you are an ignorant knee jerk reactive, uneducated whiner who blames everybody else for YOUR problems.
    smarten up, grow up or shut up.

    Also, right now, most polls show the "generic ballot" as even. Given the bias in polling toward the Dems, a takeover is not likely in the house.

    Riverdog, how do you address what Colbert posted? I love how you jump on the polls comment as you have talking points for that yet you completely ignore him posting about the plan the Clinton administration gave to Bush:

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/clarke%20memo.pdf

    Let me guess, you didn't see his post about that?

    "Iraq: retreat and split Iraq into three parts setting up a REAL civil war with us funding the Kurds and Iran funding the Shia.

    It's Shiia or Shi'a, but regardless, that is a deep analysis yourself there Robert. I never thought of that possibility! What a nightmare that would be compared to now, with the "fake" civil war where we fund everyone and Iran funds the Shiites.

    "Next step World War III."

    I thought the war on terror was WW III. No? So that would be WWW IV. Opps, I forgot when we invaded Iraq the first time. That was WWW III, then the war on terror WWW IV, the new Iraq war WWW V, and so that would be WWW VI.

    "Afghanistan: flood the market with Heroin."
    As opposed to the current "plan," which floods the markets with heroin AND drives the rural population to align with warlords who accomodate the Taliban. I see your point.

    "Put our men and women on the front lines of terror in jail for playing the Red Hot Chili Peppers at "11"."

    Yeah, you know, I was kind of more thinking about them inducing hypothermia, performing fake electrocution and execution, using the water torture, bizarre sexual humiliation, extreme sleep deprivation, beating people to death.... you know, the stuff that makes people either commit suicide or spend the rest of their lives trying to kill you. But your version is certainly tidier, and it's true that I am objecting to any unprofessional, inhumane treatment of unconvicted prisoners. It's amazing that we have come to the point that this is some "leftist" position. Aside from the morality, inhumane treatment has a corrosive effect on the intelligence service. The fact that you think a prison is "the front line of terror" says a lot about your approach.

    "Prevent the CIA from acting quickly on actionable intelligence so some judge can twiddle his thumbs while the bad guys escape."

    That's just dumb. I thought you would understand how this works, but once again you've misunderstood in the most steroetypical way. The CIA can act immediately if neccessary, but at later their actions are reviewed under FISA. This isn't new. The alternative is Bush's version where there is never any review process at all, a totally unsupervised and secret system. This is known in other countries as secret police.

    "thereby removing ANY deterrant"

    You can either have rational terrorists or not Robert, you can't have it both ways. You have already stated (shall I look it up) that terrorists will not respond to deterrance. And in any event, is torture and denial of basic principals of justice a form of "deterrance" you want to use?

    "Iran: wait until they have a bomb THEN threaten them."

    Is THAT what I said, Mr. Whydon'tpeoplejustcutandpaste? Let's see.... Nope. Read it again. I say threaten them NOW that if they develop a bomb (let me add-- or supply our enemies with materials) they will be removed from power by any means neccessary. Even if it takes a first nuclear strike. This takes advantage of their own statements about their intentions, will embolden rational opposition in Iran, and will allow the world to present a united front against the idea of nukes for this regime. Elevate this to the level of the cold war, but move it from weapons launch to weapons development. Put the ball in their court.

    "Iran: A PR campaign in a closed society where the government controls all media and locks up dissidents?"

    I am talking both about an international campaign that will put pressure on the regime, and an internal one that bolsters dissent. We did it with the Soviets, we can do it with Iran. Providing a free sattelite internet feed (a modern VOA on crack) would be a good program. Find the Leck Walesa's of Iran and find out what they need. And I can tell you the first thing they need is a model of modern, secular justice and human rights...the very thing you will deny them by transforming the U.S. to try and meet this threat on it's level.

    What's your plan?

    What's your plan, Steve? What's this Repubican plan you supposedly have? Park a bunch of troops in Iraq, police it till kindom come, and wait for everyone to realize how much they love us? Then the love will just "spread" throughout the whole middle east? Sounds great.

    At least it's a Plan Erie. That's more than the Democrats have. Cut and Run is not a plan. It's the coward's way out.

    "At least it's a Plan Erie. That's more than the Democrats have."

    WTF? So if I come up with a plan for you to down a fifth of whisky and jump off a cliff, that is better than no plan at all? Well, actually, I can kind of see your point there now that I think about it. But it is a waste of whisky. Need to work on that.

    Second, I just outlined a plan that is a hell of a lot closer to what the Dems are in line with than the assclowns Republicans. No response to that, just a "duh, yeah, dats right" when I take the mindless drift now and characterize it as a plan?

    You guys are getting scary.

    My first visit to this freak show. The posted comments indicate you people are really afraid of Olbermann - looking to silence one of the few truthful voices left on network television. Cowards.

    My first visit to this freak show. The posted comments indicate you people are really afraid of Olbermann - looking to silence one of the few truthful voices left on network television. Cowards.

    Jack,

    Welcome to the freak show!

    Do you think that Keith sucked Bill Clinton off after the interview? Keith is allowed isn't he? He's not married right?

    Why is nobody offering real responses to what Erie has said? I was under the impression when I came to this site that you guys were always right and always could respond to everything a liberal brings up because liberals are just a bunch of evil liars that want terrorists to win.

    When will you people wake the fuck up.

    Why is it that Editor & Publisher could write a piece attacking the writer of the NY Post piece who was merely reporting the incident with Olbermann's "anthrax" scare, but didn't bother to expend one single word on Olby calling Chris Wallace a monkey?

    Can any one of you deny for one single second there is not a liberal bias in the press?

    Liberal bias, are you insane? Yes, I guess CBS's Katie is a huge liberal asking Rice such important questions as "How do you ask the secratary of rice out on a date?". I also live the amazing journalistic integirty when the media didn't report on the Downing Street Memo exposing Bush's lies but instead on reported on why they didn't report on the Downing Street Memo. And it was the american media asking those hard hitting questions of Bush's prewar intelligence in the run up to the invasion of Iraq.

    Stinking liberuls!!!!!!!

    "one of the few truthful voices left" say jack of olbytoons. um ,yeah if you are brain dead liberal you think that the olbynuttjob is telling the truth.
    "Why is nobody offering real responses to what Erie has said?" said skeptical well um, we have offered responses but liberals only hear what they want to hear. it IS hard to response to somebody who is all over the map of their own incoherent, incongruent little world like skeptical is but the bottom line is that hehates Bush, the conservatives and the war in iraq so what's there to argue really anyway? This guy is another olbyfollowing hack. Go back and read some of the psts here. Except for the heroin and Red Hot Chili Peppers points pretty much everything he said has been dispelled, disproven or shot down. What more do you want?
    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a differnt result. You must be frigging nuts if you think some leftard like skeptical, Jack or olby is going to change my mind. don't act crazy dude, nothing is gonna change.
    " more skeptical intelligence-"I guess CBS's Katie is a huge liberal" well, um , yeah she is a liberal. i think Ann Coulter said is succinctly best when she called perky Katie the "affable Eva Braun of liberalism". if you cannot recognize that Couric is an ultra left wingnut liberal then STOP you have not got the mental power to continue on with life. What next ?? are you going to insinuate that the Olbynuttjob is fair and balanced and objective and not bias?
    Pssst I have some nice Rolexes i want to sell you. Liberals are so nuts that they actually think that their left wingnut views are "mainstrea" and "normal" even while they continue losing elections, viewership and their collective minds.

    Riverdog.. Please kill yourself.

    I will +1 to the above comment.

    Riverdog you are fucking moron, thats as nicely as I could put it. You are a disgrace to this web site. You can not make simple points, you can not answer simple questions, and you can not defend your position. So what do you bullshit about? No need to disprove exactly what he said as its already been disproved here on this site, I just can't back that up so I won't provide any links.

    Clinton handed Bush a plan to get the Taliban, have you addressed that? No, because you have no logical response to that. But that doesn't matter to you, you will continue to believe the lies know damn well they are lies, just as long as you get to stay in that small bubble of yours.

    Idiots like you should not be allowed to vote.

    Riverdog called me a leftard - I'm going to tell the teacher. Get out of your sandbox and get a brain. Nobody can really be that stupid. Who's paying you to write this garbage.

    Olbermann speaks the truth, my good Republican friends. I know it's your style to parse his every sentence to look for any scintilla of mis-statement, but the simple fact is the truth hurts. Your blessed leader and his cronies in this corrupt administration are suffering the pain that always comes from an overdose of hubris. Once the Dems take over both houses of Congress, the investigations, unimpeded by Republican cronyism, will begin.

    Mr. Olbermann is the Edward R. Murrow of our generation. God bless him.