KO will be hitting the Huff. post,KOS and DEM Underground hard to get them to save his job..he'll claim any attempt to remove him is an attempt to silence him for "telling the truth to power".

Yes people will lose their jobs, not KO though.. the genie is out of the bottle,, and you folks are out of the senate and HOR in a couple weeks... better hold your breath.

I think that Olbermann is such a foul mouthed bully that PMSNBC will be too afraid to can him.

O'lielly,

It's good you have big dreams. They still have to count the votes though.

I think that Olbermann has known for awhile these cuts were coming, as well as the damaging gossip about his personal life. So what has he done? Launched this series of "special comments" which provides CYA insurances for his ample backside in case MSNBC wants to dump him. He can now declare he was fired for "political reasons" instead of the actual reason: he's nuts and difficult to work with. Of course, people within the industry know the real story about King OlblyLoon but the unwashed lefty liberals would believe every word of it. See, they actually think he's ratings are good, because that's what Olby keeps trying to hypnotize them with.

I think Diebold will be counting them, so good luck. ;)

Yes,, Diebold is a far bigger battle than the likes of Rick Santorum and George Allen. Go ahead read this and tell me if it was on the other side of the political foot if it would not bother you...

Voting Machine Controversy
by Julie Carr Smyth

COLUMBUS - The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

The Aug. 14 letter from Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold Inc. - who has become active in the re-election effort of President Bush - prompted Democrats this week to question the propriety of allowing O'Dell's company to calculate votes in the 2004 presidential election.

O'Dell attended a strategy pow-wow with wealthy Bush benefactors - known as Rangers and Pioneers - at the president's Crawford, Texas, ranch earlier this month. The next week, he penned invitations to a $1,000-a-plate fund-raiser to benefit the Ohio Republican Party's federal campaign fund - partially benefiting Bush - at his mansion in the Columbus suburb of Upper Arlington.

The letter went out the day before Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, also a Republican, was set to qualify Diebold as one of three firms eligible to sell upgraded electronic voting machines to Ohio counties in time for the 2004 election.

Blackwell's announcement is still in limbo because of a court challenge over the fairness of the selection process by a disqualified bidder, Sequoia Voting Systems.

In his invitation letter, O'Dell asked guests to consider donating or raising up to $10,000 each for the federal account that the state GOP will use to help Bush and other federal candidates - money that legislative Democratic leaders charged could come back to benefit Blackwell.

They urged Blackwell to remove Diebold from the field of voting-machine companies eligible to sell to Ohio counties.

This is the second such request in as many months. State Sen. Jeff Jacobson, a Dayton-area Republican, asked Blackwell in July to disqualify Diebold after security concerns arose over its equipment.

"Ordinary Ohioans may infer that Blackwell's office is looking past Diebold's security issues because its CEO is seeking $10,000 donations for Blackwell's party - donations that could be made with statewide elected officials right there in the same room," said Senate Democratic Leader Greg DiDonato.

Diebold spokeswoman Michelle Griggy said O'Dell - who was unavailable to comment personally - has held fund-raisers in his home for many causes, including the Columbus Zoo, Op era Columbus, Catholic Social Services and Ohio State University.

Ohio GOP spokesman Jason Mauk said the party approached O'Dell about hosting the event at his home, the historic Cotswold Manor, and not the other way around. Mauk said that under federal campaign finance rules, the party cannot use any money from its federal account for state- level candidates.

"To think that Diebold is somehow tainted because they have a couple folks on their board who support the president is just unfair," Mauk said.

Griggy said in an e-mail statement that Diebold could not comment on the political contributions of individual company employees.

Blackwell said Diebold is not the only company with political connections - noting that lobbyists for voting-machine makers read like a who's who of Columbus' powerful and politically connected.

"Let me put it to you this way: If there was one person uniquely involved in the political process, that might be troubling," he said. "But there's no one that hasn't used every legitimate avenue and bit of leverage that they could legally use to get their product looked at. Believe me, if there is a political lever to be pulled, all of them have pulled it."

Blackwell said he stands by the process used for selecting voting machine vendors as fair, thorough and impartial.

As of yesterday, however, that determination lay with Ohio Court of Claims Judge Fred Shoemaker.

He heard closing arguments yesterday over whether Sequoia was unfairly eliminated by Blackwell midway through the final phase of negotiations.

Shoemaker extended a temporary restraining order in the case for 14 days, but said he hopes to issue his opinion sooner than that.

© 2003 The Plain Dealer

If you’re looking for one word to sum up the way the Bush-Cheney campaign stole another election Tuesday besides obvious ones like “cheated,” try this one: Diebold.

An election judge where I voted Tuesday in a heavily Democratic precinct in Maryland knows what that means and wasn’t adverse to sharing his opinion of the Republican-owned company. As I was about to vote with the electronic system, I asked this judge if they had a way to check people’s votes through a paper backup.

The official said no, and then in a low voice so no one else would hear, added, “And that really makes us nervous, with Diebold as the owner of that system.”

Goodbye, hanging chads. Hello, computer fraud that leaves no trace, no chads hanging.

Diebold Inc. of North Canton, Ohio, supplied scores of machines and counted millions of votes Tuesday, while reportedly discarding many votes for Democrat John Kerry, according to British investigative reporter Gregory Palast. Walden O’Dell, chief executive of Diebold and a top fundraiser for the Bush campaign, wrote in a fund-raising letter last year that he was “committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.”

That he did.

Software errors involving the system can change results, computer scientists say. Since the majority of touch screens in the United States do not produce paper records, the machines could alter ballots without anyone noticing.

“What has most concerned scientists are problems that are not observable, so the fact that no major problems were observed says nothing about the system,” David Jefferson, a computer scientist at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, told the Associated Press. “The fact that we had a relatively smooth election yesterday does not change at all the vulnerability these systems have to fraud or bugs.”

Some 8.2 percent of touch-screen votes in senatorial elections between 1998 and 2000 were lost, according to an MIT/CalTech study. That was more than any other system except lever machines, which lost 9.5 percent of votes.

Bev Harris, author of Black Box Voting and the BlackBoxVoting.com web site, has documented numerous cases of electronic disasters. One occurred in Volusia County, Fla., in 2000 in which county election officials hand recounted more than 184,000 paper ballots used to feed the computerized system, after the central ballot-counting computer showed a Socialist Party candidate receiving more than 9,000 votes and Al Gore getting minus 19,000. Another 4,000 votes were received for Bush that should not have been there.

Election officials eventually tallied Gore beating Bush by 97,063 votes to 82,214. But the wrong numbers had already been sent to the media, which were used by FOX and other networks to erroneously call the election for Bush and swing the public relations part of the recount battle in his favor.

On Tuesday, Election Protection, a program of People for the American Way, had more than 15,000 calls to its hotline about ballot problems, voter intimidation and other
situations.

The Institute for Public Accuracy also outlined various problems. Susan Truitt, co-founder of the Citizens Alliance for Secure Elections, was quoted on its site saying that seven counties in Ohio had electronic voting machines without paper trails, and scientific exit polls showed Kerry with the lead. But verifying votes was impossible, she said.

“A recount without a paper trail is meaningless; you just get a regurgitation of the data,” Truitt said. “A poll worker told me [Wednesday] morning that there were no tapes of the results posted on some machines; on other machines the posted count was zero, which obviously shouldn’t be the case.”

Other problems include Ohio’s version of Katherine Harris

There were many other problems in Ohio. Like in Florida, the Ohio secretary of state, Ken Blackwell, made decisions on what could be counted and other important matters even as he shilled for Bush as a co-chair of his campaign. This raised serious conflict-of-interest concerns, said Ohio state Senator Teresa Fedor.

“There is a pattern of voter suppression; that’s why I called for Blackwell’s resignation more than a month ago,” she said. “Blackwell, while claiming to run an unbiased elections process, was also the co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign in Ohio. Additionally, he was the spokesperson for the anti-business, anti-family constitutional
amendment ‘Issue 1,’ and a failed initiative to repeal a crucial sales-tax revenue source for the state. Blackwell learned his moves from the Katherine Harris playbook of Florida 2000, and we won’t stand for it.”

The Ohio tally also included a version of the Florida butterfly ballot, said Bob Fitrakis, an attorney with Election Protection. The absentee ballots were misleading in Franklin County,” he said. “Kerry was the third line down, but you had to punch number four to vote for him. Bush was getting both his votes as well as Kerry’s.”

There were also far fewer machines in the inner-city districts than in the suburbs, Fitrakis said. “I documented at least a dozen people leaving because the lines were so long in African-American areas,” he said. “Blackwell did a great deal of suppressing before the election - like attempting to refuse to process voter registration forms.”

I heard a report that one Ohio voter had to wait in line 15 hours to vote. In one of the busiest precincts in Columbus, Blackwell only supplied it with three voting
machines. How many people gave up and did not vote there?

Dirty tricks by Republicans on the rise

A few days before the 2004 election, the Washington Post published an article detailing increasing dirty tricks, mostly by Republicans.

In Lake County, Ohio, some people received a memo on bogus Board of Elections letterhead informing voters who registered through Democratic and NACCP drives that they could not vote.

In Leon County, students at Florida State and Florida A&M universities who signed petitions to legalize medical marijuana or impose stiffer penalties for child molesters unknowingly had their party registration switched to Republican and their addresses
changed. The latter would affect their ability to vote since they would not be registered at the proper site. The media traced the source to a group hired by the Florida Republican Party.

In Allegheny County, Pa., fliers on a bogus county letterhead were handed out and mailed, saying that “due to immense voter turnout expected on Tuesday,” the election had been extended. Republicans should vote Tuesday, while Democrats should vote on Wednesday – the wrong day.

In some Milwaukee black neighborhoods, a flier warned people that they could not vote in that election if they had already voted in another election that year. “If you
violate any of these laws, you can get ten years in prison and your children will get taken away from you,” the flier said.

In Charleston County, S.C., a fake letter supposedly from the NAACP threatens
voters who have outstanding parking tickets or have failed to pay child support with arrest. A similar flier was distributed in Baltimore in 2002.

Such tricks are not new. There are famous examples like the 1971 break-in of Democratic National Committee headquarters by Nixon. There are also many lesser known examples. In 2002, Ron Kirk, a former Dallas mayor who ran as a Democrat for U.S. Senate, reported a bogus automated phone message dialed to voters in Austin and other cities. The message asked voters to support Kirk because he supported same-sex marriages and gay adoptions. Kirk said he didn’t support either issue and blamed more Republican pre-election dirty tricks. His Republican opponent, John Cornyn, denied being behind the false phone bank.

U.S. has a long history of rigged elections

The U.S., of course, is no stranger to rigged elections, even well before Tuesday’s and the one in 2000. A famous case was the controversial way that the late President Lyndon B. Johnson won a U.S. Senate seat in 1948 in Texas on his way to the White House that reportedly involved votes from dead people. What some overlook in this case was how LBJ had lost an election in a similar disputed fashion seven years before.

Another lesser known case involved the 1984 landslide presidential election of the late Republican Ronald Reagan. In Dallas, where both Bush and Cheney lived at one time, there were 217 ballots cast in a precinct that had zero registered voters. That would not affect the election, but it demonstrates that fraud has existed for a long time.

As early as 1986, Michael Shamos, a Pennsylvania computer scientist, testified during a Texas hearing that the computer hardware and software used to tabulate voters’ ballots could easily be manipulated.

“Computers can be manipulated remotely, by wire or radio, or by direct physical input,” Shamos said. “The memories on which these computers operate can easily fit into a shirt pocket and can be substituted in seconds. The software can be set to await the receipt of a special card, whose presence will cause all the election counters to be altered. This card could be dropped into the ballot box by any confederate. The possibilities for this type of tampering are endless, and virtually no detection is possible once tabulation has been completed....Even if the software is not altered, there is no reason to believe that it is correct. Many tests performed on such programs have revealed faulty logic and wildly incorrect results.”

Suzan Kesim, then-vice president of a security consulting firm in South Bend, Ind., also testified in 1986 that “many of the computer auditing procedures used by the banking industry that have been tried and true could easily be modified or used as they are for auditing elections....Fraud possibilities include ‘hidden programs’.”

Texas even had its own voter purge almost two decades before Florida attempted to strike some 60,000 voters from the rolls with false accusations of felony convictions. In 1982, lists were provided to Texas election officials that made mostly false accusations of felony convictions against voters. The accused included public officials who successfully sued for slander. The state also hired armed officers at minority voter precincts and posted signs warning voters against casting illegal ballots. Charles Knutson pointed out in a Democrats.com report that the Texas purge probably involved Bush mastermind Karl Rove, who worked for then-Texas Republican Gov. Bill Clements in 1982.

Another odd case involved a West Texas county where the system’s optical scanners misread ballots and at first reported landslide wins for two Republican commissioners in 2002. But the next day, after alert poll workers became suspicious of the wide margins of supposed victory, they discovered a defective computer chip in the scanner system. After two hand recounts and another count with a replacement scanner chip, officials announced that Democrats Jerry House and Chloanne Lindsey actually won by wide margins.

“It was hard to believe that that type of mistake had happened,” Robbie Floyd, one of the Republicans who lost, said in one press report.

So could Kerry have been ripped off by a defective computer chip in Ohio and Florida, where scientific exit polls indicated Kerry wins? We will never know since, unlike the Texas machines in 2002, the Diebold machines in Ohio and Florida have no paper trail.

How convenient.

Popular vote fixed?

With all the former and current Republicans supporting Kerry – even a long-time Texas Republican friend of mine voted for a Democrat for the first time for president on Tuesday – it’s hard to believe that Bush got about 3.5 million more votes than Kerry and 8 million more than he received in 2000.

There can’t be that many new devil worshippers or Christian fundamentalists.

A larger turnout – Tuesday’s 60 percent turnout was the largest since 1968 – has favored Democrats in the past. But about 6 million of those votes have not been counted.

Some said that exit polls were accurate in states that had paper trails, but not in ones without the paper trails for e-voting.

Even though Kerry conceded, groups like the International Labor Communications Association refused to follow suit. The group is waging a campaign to count all the votes in Ohio.

Kerry’s concession was really strange and disappointing. Would Howard Dean have conceded so fast to Bush? Gore fought Bush harder than Kerry. I don’t get it since Kerry even had Bruce Springsteen play “No Retreat, No Surrender” at a campaign appearance and used that song during other events. John Edwards also pledged to make sure votes were counted. Then they surrendered without putting up a fight in the overtime phase. That was most disappointing, more so than Gore’s concession in 2000.

Did Skull and Bones members blackmail Kerry into conceding without a real fight?

Perhaps Kerry simply foresaw the inevitable result, but he still could have seen the counting of provisional ballots through to the end. It would have raised some more awareness about the problems with Diebold and possibility of vote tampering. It would have shown Bush-Cheney that Democrats weren’t backing down, especially with so many questions about vote reliability and reports of Republican voter suppression and dirty tricks.

But Kerry called for unity with the Evil Empire. Why is it that Democrats are always trying to call for unity and compromise with Republicanazis? As Carolyn Kay with MakeThemAccountable.com said, we have to completely remake the Democratic Party. We have to learn from right wingers to “take a licking and come back kicking. It is absolutely essential that as soon as possible we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and start working to take over the Democratic Party. It has lost its moorings, and because of that it is losing elections, over and over and over again.”

Sure, the deck was stacked against Kerry. Perhaps the last week of bad news for Bush, the Washington Redskins loss, the exit polls, and other omens that seemed to spell a Kerry victory were mere ploys by Rove to make his side work harder and our side slack off a bit.

One thing I know: We have to keep fighting these cheating thieves, not try to make peace with them. And I hope many people on our side won’t move away – though I realize moving out of the country is the ultimate protest and I understand that choice. We all have to figure out what is the best path to take for ourselves.

As for me, I’m staying in the belly of the beast, in the shadow of the Evil Empire, to continue to sucker punch it in its bloated, bullshit-filled gut. Starting now, just as many conservatives boycotted France for its correct stance against the Iraqi invasion, I’m boycotting the state of Texas, where I lived for 40 years before moving to friendlier and more progressive confines last year. Bush got his political start in Texas, where the Republicanazis imposed a redistricting scheme that made that far-right state even more Republican. Every statewide official is a Republican there. The Texas Republican Party platform reads like a nazi playbook, even calling for getting out of the UN, abolishing numerous federal agencies, making homosexuality a crime and teaching the Bible in public schools.

Enough is enough. Fuck Texas and the horses that Bush and Cheney rode in on.

And fuck Diebold, too.

As for you, Sen. Kerry, I appreciate your hard work, your intelligence, your dedication to this campaign, although I was disappointed by your finish. But, with all due respect, you know where you can stick your call for unity…..

Jackson Thoreau is a Washington, D.C.-area journalist/writer. The latest book to which he contributed, Big Bush Lies, was published by RiverWood Books of Ashland, Ore., and is available at bookstores across the country. He can be contacted at jacksonthor@yahoo.com or jacksonthor@juno.com.

Sounds like either a smart business move or an attempt to dummy-down the news division to be more like Fox. Fewer news divisions means it will be easier to control the flow of news. I'm voting for the latter.

Wow, this Jackson Thoreau character seems a bit unhinged. Not only that, but he's lying about major points in his thesis.

What will probably happen is that the "on air talent" that gets canned will be a few of those daytime anchors who nobody watches anyway.

KO has the brass at NBC so scared now with his ties to the nutbags that any attempt to rein him in or cancel him will be called "silencing".

OT. If any of you Repubs have good NFL tickets and are planning on cowering in your basement this weekend due to the terror threat, I would be glad to take them off your hands. I realize that it would be unpatriotic of me to refuse to stay home and cower in my basement, but I'm willing to take that hit.

Cheers

hit_escape-

Cheer up, Sport! It's not that bad.

Gee, O'lie-lie, you have a talent for cut 'n' paste. You must be the hit of your special-ed class.

Imagine what the show would be like if olby was told that his show would be on for only one more week. Current hate times 50. He would not leave quietly without evrybody hating him. The only way to let him go is to change the locks on the doors overnight.

The jist of what olielly is trying to say. Don't even bother vaoting if you are a democrat. Don't waste your time and stay home.

As is typical of this sorry blog, someone posts a long detailed critique of a key issue to our democracy and non of you "let's-gang-up-together-and-attack-one-guy-together" losers have the attention span to read it and comment on it in an intelligent manner. This page is the biggest joke based on delusions of grandeur I have ever seen. The constant overt attempts to editorialize about KO's down fall is so pathetic when you consider how many other people in the media that are held to corporate requirements to put out horribly biased commentary that serves the richest of the rich while the middle class continues to loose out. I have never come across a bigger bunch of coward pussies in my life.

I'd hate to see MSNBC go off the air.

I'd miss Hardball especially.

It looks like they will keep Hardball and Countdown, I think the main issue here is will Keith be able to compromise with those big bosses at the headquarters. In other words, more control of his broadcasting, he has full control at MSNBC. And how many of his staff get to stay? Will he be forced to use those staff at NBC? Most of the staff who work for him now at MSNBC have known and worked with him for years. His ego may need to find some place to go if he wants to stay at NBC.

Maybe if he goes over the CNBC they'll retool Keith's show to look more like Jim Cramer's "Mad Money" and have him running around a set with a studio audence, yelling out "special comments", taking phone calls from his Kos/DU/MoveOn fans out there and making forcasts about the future habeas corpus trends (they could even call the show "Mad Monkey" in honor of Keith's Chris Wallace comment).

HitEscape:
Well, I have tickets but I'm afraid that if I leave the house the Bush Administration will grab me and throw me into Guantanamo prison and say that I'm an al-Qaida alien agent.

Because as Olbermann tells us, they now have the power to do that anytime they want.

hit_escape,
since when did girls start liking football?

***ing phone calls from his Kos/DU/MoveOn fans out there and making forcasts about the future habeas corpus trends ***

Why take calls when he already reads their words as "commentary"?

Better yet, maybe they could tape his "Crameresque" show in his bathtub.

If Olbermann's contract isn't renewed after next March maybe Mark Cuban will hire him for his "network" (and I use that term very loosely) and Olbermann can join Dan Rather in the black hole of journalism.

Your days are numbered.

Trolls turn to stone in the light of day.

Go ahead, show your hand.

The sooner we can see your ugliness, the sooner we can end the days of your reign.

You are running out of secrets.

Your god is false.

What do you all make of this parody of Keith's show:

http://www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=4181

I am not sure what to think, to tell you the truth!

Schizophrenic on the loose alert -- see post by "fuck you neo-facists at October 19, 2006 03:49 PM"

I think that Olbermann knows that when his contract is up in March that he will be let go and because of this he is not holding back. He isn't worried about saying something that will upset someone in upper management or in the public. I think he might be using his last few months to tell people the real issues facing this country and he is not trying to sugarcoat it and dance around it like all the other news media.

For once, a cable news personality who isn't a rabid cheerleader for the radical right (can you recall O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck, Hume, Sustern, etc, etc, etc) and you people start a blog trying to debunk his every move. Grow up, and get your heads out of the toilet.

On second thought, put them back in and flush, because we don't want you on our team anyway.

Brandon:

As usual, your analysis makes perfect sense. Too bad the loons are working so hard to obscure it.

Thanks Billy. Yes, the Loons don't want to see or hear about their God and oh-so-forked tongue. If they knew anything about the career of Keith Olbermann is that the only thing he's truly concerned about is: Keith Olbermann. He should have stayed at ESPN where he actually had an audience, his career has been in freefall ever since and he's reduced to cheap theatrics to try and get the leftys to tune in. They do, for a day or two, but you see, most of them think they're too hip for television and simply don't watch for very long. Maybe it's all the drugs they do, short attention span or something. But I had to laugh when I saw someone trying to push the much-discredited, even by their God Keith Olbermann himself, bullshit of one Bev Harris. Posting pointless, off-topic articles from highly questionable "sources" is one of the things they do best. See, they're not very good at arguing a point on their own. I almost feel sorry for them, they are so easily duped by the likes of Olby. Since they like posting articles so much why don't they go get the one where Olbermann proclaims he won't do too many "special comments". Seems he's already lied about that. He's quite good at lying and twisting and distoring and oh yeah, self-promotion. And they're dumb enough to buy it all, hook, line, and sinker.

Who said this?

"You can't say you love your country and hate your government."

William Jefferson Clinton, State of the Union Address 1995

can i love my tv and still hate olbermann? (and klinton)

Though I think MSNBC should bill Olbermann and Countdown as on the left, I sincerely hope it stays on forever.

It needs to continue if only for the entertainment value of watching Keith search out the religious and political backgrounds of a movie script writer and director of the 9/11 television movie, while using Edward R. Murrow's sign-off... and watching him accuse the Bushies of fear mongering while he suggests that Bush will arrest political enemies.

For a guy who likes Orwell analogies, Olbermann is impervious to his own irony.

That's entertainment!

Re: Clinton quoate @ ReadThis: very good find. Thats much worse than anytihng OnlyInsane has accused President Bush...

"You can't say you love your country and hate your government."
-William Jefferson Clinton, State of the Union Address 1995

What! A President telling me what or what not I can say! Outrageous! We need a special comment about how as Americans we can't have a president telling us what is acceptable to think or say. Where is the Olber 'tard when you really need him.

This seems like excellent proof that their sitcoms were the ones that bolstered MSNBC... hard times.

"The promos running on A-Mess-NBC suggest that Krazy Keith is going to go after George Bush for campaigning on behalf of someone who cheated on his wife."

Bush is campaigning for Ted Kennedy?

Damned, that Rove is a genius.

Olby and MSNBC are here to stay...the cuts will go on behind the scenes...

Olby is the anchor of the cable network now.
You can thank the bloggers and the water cooler.

I disagree with Olby big time, but he has cache'.

"while using Edward R. Murrow's sign-off... and watching him accuse the Bushies of fear mongering while he suggests that Bush will arrest political enemies."

So if YOUR BELOVED LEADER fearmongers it's ok, but if a news commentator (whose job it is) criticizes these tactics, then all further critical commentaries from said newscaster can be labelled fearmongering and we can nail him for being a hypocrite. Rove would be proud of you.

Your logic is so convoluted...

Olby is the anchor of the cable network now.
**********************************************
The Titanic had a anchor too..we now how well that helped in the end.

Keith comes within 2000 viewers of 5th place!! Everyone is getting wise to his "Special" messages.

1 US soldier killed today in Iraq..so far
3 Yesterday...10 the day before.

Tick...tock...

http://icasualties.org/oif/prdDetails.aspx?hndRef=10-2006

Several bombs going off in Mosul and Kirkuk

http://icasualties.org/oif/prdDetails.aspx?hndRef=10-2006

At the risk at being labelled a "cheerleader for terrorists (by Bush and mlong who could'nt care less for those poor young lads),... there were'nt too many in the media warning us a few years ago. Instead they were cheerleading a quick US military victory...MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

We need a few more gutsy news commentators around to show us how misguided this whole operation has been.

Let's hope KO stays on the air.

Wrong URL

Several bombs going off in Mosul and Kirkuk

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6067958.stm

Period covered
12-Oct-06 thru 18-Oct-06

Wounded returned to duty 72 hours...80

Wounded not returned to duty in 72 hours...111

http://icasualties.org/oif/

This just in one week. How many of those poor boys (111 NRTD) Mr mlong...will be missing some of their limbs...for the greater glory of your DEAR LEADER. How tragic.

And you could care less.

At the risk at being labelled a "cheerleader for terrorists
***********************************************
But you are...you,KO,the Dems and most of the MSM who want us to surrender in Iraq and quit rest of the war on Terror...deep down you all believe their justified in the actions against us and if we would just stop fighting them and give them a big o'l hug they would stop flying planes into buildings or cut heads off people.I remind you the terrorist where killing Americans long before Bush became president and they just didn't start hating us because of him..they hate us and want to kill us because we don't follow their extreme view of Islam and pulling out of Iraq or the Middle east all together isn't going to change that.

And I call you a "cheerleader for terrorists" because there is never any anger directed at the terrorist who are killing our soldiers..really when was the last time KO ever gave a terrorist a WPITW award?

"And I call you a "cheerleader for terrorists" because there is never any anger directed at the terrorist who are killing our soldiers"

Those "terrorists" killing US soldiers are supported by the majority of Iraqis and are referred to by them as Resistance fighters, by us as insurgents.

The ones killing Iraqis..they are the terrorists.

And you sir are so full of hate and fear. You should be shipped off to Iraq so you can prove what a man you are. Why don't you volunteer?

Allan:
"Those "terrorists" killing US soldiers are supported by the majority of Iraqis and are referred to by them as Resistance fighters, by us as insurgents. "

Do YOU think they are Resistance fighters?

We're not interested right now in what a majority of the Iraqis think.

We're interested in what you think.

Are the people killing Americans, resistance fighters?

You also said:
"The ones killing Iraqis..they are the terrorists."

Is that the American soldiers?

Who's blowing up car bombs in markets and in the schools and mosques?

Americans?

SMG

"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country" - JFK, Inaugural Address, 1961

More on Presidents telling us what we can and cannot say.

Damn them!

"Who's blowing up car bombs in markets and in the schools and mosques?"

TERRORISTS...did I not already indicate this?

"Do YOU think they are Resistance fighters?"

YES! It is their country, their oil...NOT OURS.
Did we have the right to invade? NO. Did Saddam conspire with 9-11? NO.

Need I say more?

"YES! It is their country, their oil...NOT OURS."

Well, we're not taking their oil or their country. We've created with them a democratically-elected government. We purchase oil from them. We don't take it. We pay for it along with other countries.

The "resistance fighters" (as you call them) are trying to overthrow the democratically elected government of Iraq. They want to establish a dictatorship.

Why won't the "resistance fighters" join the political process and run in elections? If they have the support of the Iraqi people, they would get elected and then can run the country.

And why do these "resistance fighters" kill so many innocent Iraqis? They blow up schools and mosques and markets and explode bombs to kill civilians.

Why are they doing all this if they have the support of the Iraqi people?

SMG

KO does not have enough guts to watch the videos of what was done to the bodies of our two soldiers captured this past summer. If that story had received any attention (other than a blurb), the general public would be enraged and support Bush's stance on detainees. The very tragic part of the failure to follow that story is that the families of the soldiers may never know their loved ones were dead before being mutiltated. Anyone who watched both videos and followed the jawa report knows that Kristian Muchaca and Thomas Tucker died from injuries sustained in the attack. What these "freedom fighters" did to our soldiers' bodies was unspeakable. Oh, and it wouldn't hurt to watch one of the beheadings. Eugene Armstrong died a horrible, slow death. He would have welcomed waterboarding and denial of some nicieties over his barbaric death.

Excuse me , Menchaca, not Muchaca. I apologize for the mistake.

Sharm:
"What these "freedom fighters" did to our soldiers' bodies was unspeakable."

I read about it. Horrible.

And folks call these people "resistance fighters."

But the "resistance" in France fought against a fascist dictatorship. In Iraq we have a democratically elected government that is being threatened by these "resistance fighters."

These "resistance fighters" can join the political process if they want. But they don't want a democracy. They want to re-establish a dictatorship where they shoot everyone who opposes their policies or rule.

And they're killing everyone in Iraq who opposes their goal of overthrowing the government.

And Bush is blamed for this? Incredible. The thugs killing Iraqis are not the bad guys; Bush and the US is.

Some "resistance fighters" these folks are. They are fascist thugs.

"We've created with them a democratically-elected government."
-------------------------
They had no choice in the matter. Though Saddam was not democratically elected, there was relative peace with his regime. Shiites resented Sunni power, but Saddam's Baath party kept everyone from killing each other. Would you care to compare Iraq in 2002 to Iraq in 2006?

"We purchase oil from them. We don't take it. We pay for it along with other countries"
------------------------
That oil is not purchased, it's plundered to pay for an illegal occupation. A lot of it goes to pay for security...and no wonder. US oil companies now have access to that plunder which they did'nt have before. Saddam would not accept $US (which we print ad nauseum) but wanted euros. Guess what?...after MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, payment reverted back to US funny money. And you say it is purchased?

These resistance fighters, many of them Sunni but Sadr Shiites as well, can see this game for what it is, and they fight the presence of invaders. What would you call US troops..."liberators"?

Ever wonder why the US is building a "permanent" fortress in central Baghdad...it's called the US embassy. And they are planning for at least 4 extensive "permanent bases" as well.

Seriously...put yourself in an Iraqi's position, after all this would you not resent our presence there?

"And why do these "resistance fighters" kill so many innocent Iraqis? They blow up schools and mosques and markets and explode bombs to kill civilians"
---------------------------
We've been over this. The ones fighting US troops are the resistance fighters only.

"Why won't the "resistance fighters" join the political process and run in elections? If they have the support of the Iraqi people, they would get elected and then can run the country."
------------------------------
They can't. They have no say under this US imposed setup.

Damn, O'Lielly, can you at least pretend to have a thought of your own? Or at least to find an article that has even the vagueist semblance of relevancy?

The topic is on the cutbacks at NBC. Not Diebold machines, stolen elections, or "Big Bush Lies."

But at least if you posted your own words, as anti-Semitic as they've been, I could respect your attempt. As it is, you're just a parrot.

Big Bush Lies! The O'Not Original endorsed paperback sweeping the nation! Comming in at......717,020 at Amazon!!!!! New and used starting at $2.01.

Allan:
"They had no choice in the matter."

Sure they did. They could decide to boycott the election. They had a vote on a constitution and on a parliament. They could have voted into power what group or groups they wanted. There were pro-Sunni/Batthist parties that ran.

"Though Saddam was not democratically elected, there was relative peace with his regime. "

No there was not. Under Saddam the Sunni minority slaughtered the Shi'a and Kurdish minorities. The only difference was that we didn't hear about it every day on the news.

"That oil is not purchased, it's plundered to pay for an illegal occupation."

Sorry, that's absurd. The oil is sold on the open market. You said that we took their oil. How can we take their oil if they sell it?

I'm sorry, Allan, you're not making sense here.

"We've been over this. The ones fighting US troops are the resistance fighters only."

But the ones fighting the US are ALSO fighting the democratically elected government and also killing innocent Iraqis. They blow up car bombs in civilian neighborhoods and in markets.

You think the people fighting the US aren't also killing innocent Iraqis? On purpose?

"They can't. They have no say under this US imposed setup"

The Iraqi government has offered amnesty to these "resistance fighters" numerous times.

Do you think this "resistance" wishes to create a democracy?

If the "resistance" wins, what type of government will they establish? Will it have the support of the Iraqi people? Will there be elections? Will there be a constitution voted upon?

Thanks for keeping this discussion civil.

SMG

"And they're killing everyone in Iraq who opposes their goal of overthrowing the government."

And this

"And Bush is blamed for this? Incredible. The thugs killing Iraqis are not the bad guys; Bush and the US is."
-----------------------------

Bush is the problem. Some Iraqi's played along and that is unfortunate for them

You pointed to the French Resistance. The Iraqis see the illegal US occupation as fascist, just like the French did. And if you read your history books, you'll see what happened to Frenchman who collaborated with the invaders.

The current government in Iraq is a sham puppet government and most Iraqis see it that way. The so called election was held under an occupier's gun, so don't tell me they were democratically elected.

Allan:
"The current government in Iraq is a sham puppet government and most Iraqis see it that way. The so called election was held under an occupier's gun, so don't tell me they were democratically elected."

So all those pictures and stories of millions of Iraqis walking to vote, holding up their purple fingers was a sham?

Again, if the "resistance" wins, what type of government do you think they will install?

Do you think they will hold free elections? Will they allow the Iraqis to vote on a constitution? To vote on who will run the country?

Because if you believe that they will, we might as well end the conversation here because you're fooling yourself.

SMG

"Sure they did. They could decide to boycott the election. They had a vote on a constitution and on a parliament. They could have voted into power what group or groups they wanted. There were pro-Sunni/Batthist parties that ran."
-----------------------------
A sham election under an occupation? You must be kidding...right? I'm just wondering, did they really bungle it or was it a planned necessity.

"There was not. Under Saddam the Sunni minority slaughtered the Shi'a and Kurdish minorities. The only difference was that we didn't hear about it every day on the news."
-------------------------------

The key word is "relative" peace. What stories of complete anarchy(like now)...in what newspapers...were you reading back then which compares to what's going on now? C'mon it was'nt being covered in the news? It just was'nt happening. The big news was the chemical attack on the Kurds, and the US played that card too many times.

"Sorry, that's absurd. The oil is sold on the open market. You said that we took their oil. How can we take their oil if they sell it?"
--------------------------
You call it an open market. I call it a fix. Why did payment go back to US dollars...tell me... do you really believe the Iraqi authorities set this "payment system" up? No it was Bremer...and he also opened up the Iraqi oilfields to bidding by US companies, most of which were banned in Saddam's time. Where does most of the money go? To KBR (Halliburton) and other companies to pay for a lot of security needs for the new puppet government.

"The Iraqi government has offered amnesty to these "resistance fighters" numerous times."
------------------------
Yeah amnesty, to get a knock on the door by some "police patrol" in the middle of the night, and then they find your head blown off the next day. The police authorities are riddled with Shiite execution squads.

ALL OF THIS...thanks to the great foresightedness of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.

"Again, if the "resistance" wins, what type of government do you think they will install?

Do you think they will hold free elections? Will they allow the Iraqis to vote on a constitution? To vote on who will run the country?"
------------------------------

SMG

Try to understand this. IT IS NOT OUR BUSINESS. Under sanctions...Saddam was no threat to us. And it was proved he was'nt going to be.

This is a different country with a different culture. Democracy is not part of their history. Leave them alone to sort out their own mess.

If we forcibly try to impose it, it's no different than what the old Soviet Union did to keep Eastern Europe under their yoke...communism...their "system of government".

Allan:
Sorry, I'll give you the last word.

The differences between our views of events in Iraq are too vast to bridge.

I'll end it here.

One last word: George Bush is not the problem. Radical Islam is.

Thanks.

SMG

"The differences between our views of events in Iraq are too vast to bridge."

Agreed. Hope someday however you will try to see this subject from a less US centric point of view.

Thank you and I appreciate your views and comments on the subject.

And what exactly does any of that have to do with the subject of this thread which is the massive lay-offs at NBC-Universal?

"what exactly does any of that have to do with the subject of this thread which is the massive lay-offs at NBC-Universal"

Guess we hijacked the thread. It happens.

You can have it back.

SMG

Check out the press release 'journalism' on TVNewser. Brian Stelter cherry-picked quotes from today to make it seem like this is a positive thing for MSNBC.

My favorite part: Capus says MSNBC is "working on a primetime plan." Hmmmmm, haven't they been saying that for the last 7 years?

Brian Stelter, folks, the personal pimp of every MSNBC executive and one particular host.

Isn't this an automatic boost for Olby (if he does in fact move to the only new channel with lower ratings than MSNBC)? I mean, eliminating one of the 5 news channels means Olby no longer can worry about 5 place, right?

Seriously, though, has any network ever fallen so far so fast? From "Must see TV" to last place in what, 2 years?

And despite the highest rated morning show (by a lot) and the highest rated evening news show, NBC is decimating their news division. Think anyone there knows what their doing?

I think that all the people who believe the Iraqis were better off under Sadam should have to move to Cuba and see how they like it. The colonial African countries were better off under colonial rule than independence (see Rhodesia/Zaire) but I don't hear you people calling for the recolonization of Africa.

Olby and his network have accepted 3rd place.
What people fail to see is that there is a limit to how much blatant bias people can take, before they ask themselves -"Hey if this is bad, whats on the other side, or what are the other ideas?"
Olby doesnt have the guts to debate without guttersniping from afar.

Olby numbers rate third place when he has a good ratings night. Typically he's fourth and occasionally dead last. So, Olby and his network have accepted fourth place. Now you know why MSNBC is being dismantled, and what's left of it will be placed on the back of U-Haul.