Look out, Johnny! Olby could sneak up on you wielding a scalpel or a metal baton if you continue bashing him.

Johnny is too busy supporting Faux news to tell the truth about another news source. I mean check out his pro Faux News website. So,, Beltway Boys includes Mort Kondracke and Fred Barnes.. wow,, quite the diversity in opinion in that show.

Michelle answered Olby's ridiculous claims on her blog and she addressed the BOR apology.

Beltway Boys includes Mort Kondracke and Fred Barnes.. wow,, quite the diversity in opinion in that show.
************************************************
Then why don't you start a Beltway Boys watch?

Taser boy whined like a little girl....hehehehehhe...lol.

KO is bigoted against Fox News show hosts who have better ratings and are more popular. Olby threatens bodily harm and then kinda-sorta apologizes.

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3400
The Global Warming Hoax
by James K. Glassman

MILAN, Italy -- On many of the walls here at the Feira Milano conference center, site of the giant United Nations meeting on climate change, Green activists have posted flamboyant posters showing a picture of Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla), with a quotation from him: "Global warming is 'the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people.'"

The idea being proffered by these sophisticates, of course, is that Inhofe is a typical American rube. Global warming a hoax! What a dope!

In fact, Inhofe is one of the best-informed Senators on the science and economics of global warming. And "global warming" -- as it's used by environmental extremists -- is indeed a hoax.

Yes, the Earth's surface has warmed a bit over the past century, but is that warming caused mainly by humans or by natural cycles? And can changes in human activity -- specifically reductions in carbon-dioxide emissions -- have anything more than a tiny effect on temperature? The answers to those questions, which are at the heart of the Kyoto Protocol and other attempts to force cuts in energy use, are simply unknown.

It is the claim of certainty that is a hoax. It's a dangerous one, too, since using global-warming theory as the basis for extreme policy mandates could plunge the world into a long-term recession or even a depression.

The quote on the poster comes from Inhofe's speech during debate over the McCain-Lieberman bill that would have curtailed greenhouse-gas emissions in the United States, a measure similar to the Kyoto Protocol, which President Bush rejected in 2001 as "fatally flawed" and which still lacks enough ratifying nations for implementation six years after it was signed. McCain-Lieberman was rejected, too -- in part because of Inhofe's strenuous efforts as chairman of the Environment and Public Works Committee.

One of the themes being promoted by Greens at this conference is that the American people want Kyoto-style measures to cut greenhouse gas emissions and that the close vote on McCain-Lieberman proves it. Wednesday's issue of ECO, the daily conference newsletter backed by WWF International, Greenpeace and other environmental groups, refers to "mounting anger at home" to President Bush's stance on climate change. "The American public is catching on to this charade," claims ECO.

But several times this week, Inhofe has patiently explained the real arithmetic behind the Senate vote. First, it was 16 votes short of the 60 effectively needed for passage under Senate rules. Second, it was riddled with concessions to win votes. Without the amendments, Inhofe figures only 32 Senators would have backed it. Finally, the bill was sold under a claim that it would cost only $20 per household per year. A study commissioned by TechCentralStation and performed by Charles River Associates, the respected economic research firm, found that the costs would be at least 17 times that much.

Inhofe heads a congressional delegation of eight Republicans in Milan. The others are Sens. Larry Craig (Idaho), Craig Thomas (Wyo.) and Jeff Sessions (Ala.) and Reps. Chris Cannon (Utah), Fred Upton (Mich.), Chris Shays (Conn.) and Jim Greenwood (Pa). There are no Democratic members of Congress here but plenty of Democratic staffers.

I sat down with Inhofe at breakfast at his hotel in Milan Thursday morning. Considering the fact that nothing much has been happening at COP-9, the ninth United Nations conference of the parties to the 1992 Rio agreement on the environment, I started by asking why he was here.

"I'm here," he said, "to show that we are not going to ratify Kyoto."

That's Inhofe at his finest. Straight talk. No nonsense.

Unlike some other members of Congress, who accept the scientific basis for Kyoto but say that the treaty costs too much and exempts developing countries, Inhofe disputes the science. He knows the studies, and he recognizes that the tide has turned in the past few years.

"Virtually all of the research since 1999 has been refuting [the theory of human-caused global warming]. It is ludicrous that Kyoto can be as damaging economically as it is when there is no science to justify it."

New research, for example, has challenged Michael Mann's "hockey-stick" formula, which asserts that temperatures have risen sharply, in an unprecedented fashion. In fact, warming was worse centuries ago, before industrialization and automobiles.

The delegation met Wednesday with counterparts from Europe, and Inhofe and many of his colleagues were shocked at the Europeans' refusal even to consider scientific research that casts doubt on predictions of cataclysmic warming. "They just don't want to talk about the science," said Inhofe. "They don't want to listen. They were Zombies" -- unlike "real people in the U.S." Those Americans, said Inhofe, "we are turning around" with the recent research.

Some members of the delegation have been as forceful as Inhofe on the subject of climate-change science. For example, in 1998, with Bill Clinton in the White House, Sen. Larry Craig said, "As more and more American scientists review the available data on global warming, it is becoming increasingly clear that the vast majority believe the commitments for reduction of greenhouse gas emissions made by the administration in the Kyoto Protocol are an unnecessary response to an exaggerated threat the vice president himself [i.e., Al Gore] is caught up in making."

The talk of the conference has been Russia. Will the Russians ratify Kyoto? The treaty requires the votes of nations producing 55 percent of all emissions from developed countries. Currently, the tally is 44 percent, so the Russians, with 17 percent, hold the key.

Inhofe says that some Russians see negotiations on ratification "as a way to make some money. They want to see how big the bribe will be." But, in the end, he thinks the Russians will reject Kyoto, for reasons of science and economics, just as Bush rejected it as shortly after his inauguration.

"I'm proud of Putin for having the courage to look at the science," said Inhofe, referring to the Russian president. "In this environment, it takes courage."

Inhofe also agrees with the assessment that this has been a particularly depressing conference for the Greens. The plenary sessions are only about half-full, and "there was no enthusiasm in the room."

Meanwhile, Inhofe points out, the United States is shelling out $4.7 million, footing the bill for about one-fourth of the cost of the U.N.'s extravaganza. But the price may be worthwhile, if only because Inhofe is getting his message out. He's teaching the value of straight talking to the Europeans and the Green NGO officials who, for a long time now, have assumed they can set the world's agenda. This year, with Kyoto on its deathbed, they're learning otherwise. It's delightful to see.

Zzzzzzz.

Speaking of hiring young women to be a companion, LOL! Olby stumbled when repeating that line back to Paul F. Tompkins.

Any woman who ever "dates" Olbermann should pay special attention to how he treats former girlfriends, i.e., the continued slams against Laura Ingraham.

KO just regurgitated what Media Splatter's site said about Laura Ingraham last week. How lazy can he get?! Also, this whole incident occur 10 days ago and only now is it being mentioned? This was just another blatent attack on Laura for yesterday's jab at Olby on her show.
BTW, O'Reilly making the bronze today in the 'WPITW' segment. I guess that fill's KO's quota for this week.

I don't know what Laura said about him but more power to him for saying it whatever it was. And do we need any more proof about how vindictive and mean-spirited he is to go after an ex-lover than his repeated jabs at Ingraham? And he's supposed to be some great "feminist" according to his psychotic fans? Yeah he's a feminist alright, because he's a pussy.

As Usual the tan man fraud krazy Keith edited the whiny taser boy video for effect looping the "Drama" and leaving out what a militant tool this tree hugging mommas boy really was.

The tan man will have this sub-human on next week. I will bet the rent on it.

Johnny D...

Very appropriate summary for a Friday. Appreciate the cliff notes. Watching Citizen Keith is not an easy task. I get exhausted just watching him for shits and giggles.

He was full of piss and vinegar tonight against all that he hates. While he continues to "cream" over his beloved Persons 25-54, he basically "takes a dump" on his 55+ audience who he essentially writes off.

Crazy KO is So....... focused on the key demographic and in doing so, takes a whiz on all those who are above the age of 55 and consume products. You think Mavis, who lives on a fixed income, and lives in a trailer living a mile from Foxwoods Casino cares about your stupid ratings graphic??

Buy hey, this is Olby Planet....where only the key demographics matters.

We beat O'Reilly in the final quater-hour !!!
Oh, Joy...I have a Brain !!!

L.Feechie

Olby has a bone to pick with Scientology. Last time I checked we had Freedom of Religion. Not sure what they worship, but KO had plenty of crappy things to say about them.

Grainy Cheney....Anyone notice that depiction of the VP? KO cooked the video...made him look grainy on purpose...like OJ on the front cover of Time Magazine....Such the journalist.

And the last 15 minutes of his show would be the tabloid segments, not the "hard-hitting news and political" segments he likes to boast so much about.

Little Feechie,
The only Religion Olbermann defends is Islam. He attacks Christians, Jews and anyone else. If Islam is attacked he rises to their defence!
He's a Jihadi supporter that roots for Iran, Hizballah, Hamas and Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

2 things:

1) What did Lauras say about KO on her show (rarely get the chance ot listen to it, but I like what I hear)

2) BO as bronze in WPITW? Yesterday, when KO was on ESPNradio w/ Dan Patrick, he said ha was over BO (after BO mentioned boycotting GQ)...Ko claimed he had grown up and all the BO stuff was behind him (whoever got the apology clip might also have access to this one as it was from the same hour)...Glad to see he could keep his word for lss than 36 hours

Little Feechie,
The only Religion Olbermann defends is Islam. He attacks Christians, Jews and anyone else. If Islam is attacked he rises to their defence!
He's a Jihadi supporter that roots for Iran, Hizballah, Hamas and Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

Olbermann often refers to his producers, telling Dan Patrick (on the latter's radio show) that he (KO) doesn't know what will be on his program until he meets with them.

Does anyone know the names or backgrounds of these people? IIRC, one of them used to be the producer for the Tony Kornheiser radio show before he was fired for inappropriate conduct.

Not really interested in getting "dirt" on the people. I'd just like to know their backgrounds and experience.

Mr. Cox and Johnny Dollar,
I propose a spin off of Olbermann watch. We should call it Chris Matthews watch. It's well known he's a Dem but at least he was fair. Now he's like Olbermann, Angry and unhinged. Evenb though his party won the election he's even more biased and like Olbermann has become a Leftists Cheerleader. He no longer lets Republicans talk and temas up with the Dem to attack them!
He merits a watch site!

I like Matthews...he can spill over into this Blog... Olby the grand high exhaulted mystic idiot.

One of his producers, Izzy Povich, went to Cornell, as did Olby. Who was the one who allegedly was fired from Kornheiser's show?

Mr. Cox and Johnny Dollar,
I propose a spin off of Olbermann watch. We should call it Chris Matthews watch. It's well known he's a Dem but at least he was fair. Now he's like Olbermann, Angry and unhinged. Evenb though his party won the election he's even more biased and like Olbermann has become a Leftists Cheerleader. He no longer lets Republicans talk and temas up with the Dem to attack them!
He merits a watch site!

=========================================

Do political watch blogs porevent bordom, or something? Go out and fly a kite or bake or knit --- please!!! Anything! Obviously... these websites are no helping @ all...

Chris Matthews is a big supporter Of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadenijad. He has praise Iran regularly and belives Iran is a great nation.

Iran is a great nation. Nothing new there... just because they have a bad leader does not undermine their grandure --- just like the United States --- we are the greatest nation of all, but we sure do not know how to pick an exencutive...

Chris Matthews is a big supporter Of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadenijad. He has praise Iran regularly and belives Iran is a great nation.

or what about Hillary Clinton... she is something else... but will America go for her? ...

Olbermann Watch [Us Bicker],
What's so great about Iran? That they have no freedom of speach and Women are oppressed?
As always the Left defends Islamic Supremists. Iran is a pathetic 3rd world nation. Even we didn't have the Leftists press we could and should wipe them off the map!

"Who was the one who allegedly was fired from Kornheiser's show?"

Dennis Horgan, Jr. was the producer for Kornheiser who was fired. And ESPN did fire him. Kornheiser, when he was on ESPN radio, was quite upset at the time.

I'm not 100% sure that Horgan now works for KO or not (or did in the recent past).

Freedom of speech brought us nitpicking websites like Olbermann Watch.com and other blogs... their should be a freedom of whining clause in the Constitution, because the stuff here hardly constitutes "speach" ;-)

Alright Johnny

Cliffs Notes doesn't cut it. Was this a drive-by blogging. Or, are you doing a blog and run?????

Ohboy: Whatever happened to "katy"? She was my favorite tabloid clipping from Olbermann Watch.com... but I see that when something fails to incriminate Keith Olbermann... well what do you know --- NO LONGER AN ISSUE?!?!?!? --- Ha ha ha !!!

Hillary Clinton and the Dems are pro Iran and Hizballah. they want to talk with a nation that's allied with Al-Qaeda and is protecting Bin Laden's son. I wish the Reps would hit the Dems with this. If the american people knew the extent of the Dems support of Islamic Extremists they would never win.
The Reps are no better they're in bed with the Saudis.
That's why we need a Nationalist party in America!

Just checked (duh):

Dennis Horgan Jr. _is_ on KO's staff. At least as of about 2-3 years ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A54273-2003Jul27¬Found=true

Same guy. Fired by ESPN for misuse of e-mail services.

watch this:

http://hotair.com/

Malkin gives Olbermann a taste of his medicine!

Just what do they teach in Olberman's tight ass elite private high school--where he was not on a single sports team---or in Cornell-- where the Olbytard once again did not participate in a single sport-- where the most hated man at ESPN majored in --Communcations. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA--what the hell is communications anyway??Oh yea--it's for putzes and retards who never played a sport in their lives---spend four yrs of Mommy & Daddy's $$$$$ so th eorabnge putz can some how become an expert oin sports. I guess we have to include the causes, prosecution, and historic and political implications of aftermath of the Vietnam war.Oh wait-------no----but puztytard did learn how to stare into a cmaera ---and act even more creepy then his bright orange hue--and poor taste in ties indicate.
Can you imagine this moron--this orange moron is going to special comment a tutoririal on the Vietnam War to the President of the US-- a Yale and Harvard B school graduate? Is this big orange headed putz kidding? What would Olnbytard know about the war--or about anything else that is not written for this primate to read via the prompter? Ever see the Olbytan try to ad lib--or go off his script??He's a moron.It's one stammer after a dumptruck of "ummmms" "errrrs" and the other gutteral sound the dunce makes when he goes off his media matters and cream Huff-post talking points.
Case in point--segment 5--our non-hero--the man who never tossed a ball but somehow has a sports show where he criticizes other men who can and do play the very sports orange tan can't----and never could--hence--those who can do-those who can't teach---and those who had a questionable relationship with Mommy---have a career in sports talk. There is ole tanman reading every word others have placed in front of the dunce----hitting all the latest talking points from MM -or as the rest of the world calls it--the bullshit that liar David Brock lies out ----when the putz launchers down the memory lane with his half-assed Vietnam analogies--all of them wrong --and all of them from left-left of center. The best was when puitzytan oafed that the US was engaged in Vietnam from 1960-1975----and that's not cutting and running? What? Is the orange crap this dunce pours on his girly skin eatting into his brain, or is he just that dumb? Firstly--the US pulled out of Viuetnam in 72'---and the democrats cut off aid to South Vietnam shortly after. The South was conducting meaningful and punishing attacks on NVA and Vc FORCES with US AID--AND AIR SUPPORT.However--once the democrat Congress killed the funding----thus stabbing our friends in South Vietnam in the back----thus cutting and running. Secondly---the US pulled out combat forces in 73' in accord with the Paris peace accords. Of course the orange man has no idea what the Paris peace accords are----nor does he have any idea of what Kissinger did for his nation beyond what he slavbe reads from the Daily Kos, or MM--aka--dAVID bROCK LIES--AND LIES FOR gEORGE sORROS $$$$$$----but what did you expect---he got a degree in Communications--hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahha---man that's so funny on so many levels.
Stil later --our non-hero--stumps along and gives the Media Matters lessons of Vietnam talking points--you know---SE Asia did not fall like a row of dominoes--well except for Loas-South Vietnam-Burma-and lastly the blood bath the NVA allowed the Khmer Rouge to make in Cambodia.Other then that---no dominoes fell--well except for the fact that the USSR soon got what they had always wanted--a deep water warm water port in Vietnam.Oh--and by that time--since SE Asia was now in Communist hands--time to move on to Cental America--and Africa.Hmm--onme wonders whaen will the tanman give Castro a big fat monica --like the one he gave to Clinton????
I digress---Media matters lesson #2---or #3--my h=ead hurts from having to listen to this dunce ---but I 'll soldier on--unlike Olbytan's boy crush Bill Clinton Vietnam years-----have a plan to win the war. Ok---hmmm--lets see--in the 1960's---what two nations had huge numbers of nukes aimed at the USA--and would have launched them if the US had followed the plan to end the war and invade the North again????Oh yea--the USSR AND China. You reacall the USSR??It's the nation Ronald Reagan defeated in the Cold War--the Cold WAAR--THAT oLBY HERO John" our troops are morons" Kerry, and Teddy Kenndey backed over their own President and own nation.
Media Matters #3---who cares more crap from this dunce.

Just what do they teach in Olberman's tight ass elite private high school--where he was not on a single sports team---or in Cornell-- where the Olbytard once again did not participate in a single sport-- where the most hated man at ESPN majored in --Communcations. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA--what the hell is communications anyway??Oh yea--it's for putzes and retards who never played a sport in their lives---spend four yrs of Mommy & Daddy's $$$$$ so th eorabnge putz can some how become an expert oin sports. I guess we have to include the causes, prosecution, and historic and political implications of aftermath of the Vietnam war.Oh wait-------no----but puztytard did learn how to stare into a cmaera ---and act even more creepy then his bright orange hue--and poor taste in ties indicate.
Can you imagine this moron--this orange moron is going to special comment a tutoririal on the Vietnam War to the President of the US-- a Yale and Harvard B school graduate? Is this big orange headed putz kidding? What would Olnbytard know about the war--or about anything else that is not written for this primate to read via the prompter? Ever see the Olbytan try to ad lib--or go off his script??He's a moron.It's one stammer after a dumptruck of "ummmms" "errrrs" and the other gutteral sound the dunce makes when he goes off his media matters and cream Huff-post talking points.
Case in point--segment 5--our non-hero--the man who never tossed a ball but somehow has a sports show where he criticizes other men who can and do play the very sports orange tan can't----and never could--hence--those who can do-those who can't teach---and those who had a questionable relationship with Mommy---have a career in sports talk. There is ole tanman reading every word others have placed in front of the dunce----hitting all the latest talking points from MM -or as the rest of the world calls it--the bullshit that liar David Brock lies out ----when the putz launchers down the memory lane with his half-assed Vietnam analogies--all of them wrong --and all of them from left-left of center. The best was when puitzytan oafed that the US was engaged in Vietnam from 1960-1975----and that's not cutting and running? What? Is the orange crap this dunce pours on his girly skin eatting into his brain, or is he just that dumb? Firstly--the US pulled out of Viuetnam in 72'---and the democrats cut off aid to South Vietnam shortly after. The South was conducting meaningful and punishing attacks on NVA and Vc FORCES with US AID--AND AIR SUPPORT.However--once the democrat Congress killed the funding----thus stabbing our friends in South Vietnam in the back----thus cutting and running. Secondly---the US pulled out combat forces in 73' in accord with the Paris peace accords. Of course the orange man has no idea what the Paris peace accords are----nor does he have any idea of what Kissinger did for his nation beyond what he slavbe reads from the Daily Kos, or MM--aka--dAVID bROCK LIES--AND LIES FOR gEORGE sORROS $$$$$$----but what did you expect---he got a degree in Communications--hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahha---man that's so funny on so many levels.
Stil later --our non-hero--stumps along and gives the Media Matters lessons of Vietnam talking points--you know---SE Asia did not fall like a row of dominoes--well except for Loas-South Vietnam-Burma-and lastly the blood bath the NVA allowed the Khmer Rouge to make in Cambodia.Other then that---no dominoes fell--well except for the fact that the USSR soon got what they had always wanted--a deep water warm water port in Vietnam.Oh--and by that time--since SE Asia was now in Communist hands--time to move on to Cental America--and Africa.Hmm--onme wonders whaen will the tanman give Castro a big fat monica --like the one he gave to Clinton????
I digress---Media matters lesson #2---or #3--my h=ead hurts from having to listen to this dunce ---but I 'll soldier on--unlike Olbytan's boy crush Bill Clinton Vietnam years-----have a plan to win the war. Ok---hmmm--lets see--in the 1960's---what two nations had huge numbers of nukes aimed at the USA--and would have launched them if the US had followed the plan to end the war and invade the North again????Oh yea--the USSR AND China. You reacall the USSR??It's the nation Ronald Reagan defeated in the Cold War--the Cold WAAR--THAT oLBY HERO John" our troops are morons" Kerry, and Teddy Kenndey backed over their own President and own nation.
Media Matters #3---who cares more crap from this dunce.

Johnny Dollar said:

"And still KO refuses to tell his viewers how Jack Abramoff has pointed the finger of corruption at none other than Harry "The Body" Reid."

I'm tired, and I'm cranky. And I don't have to put up with your BULLSHIT, Johnny Dollar.

It's a crap story. If I have to keep repeating it, the next call will be to Mr. Reid's office so that he can send his attorneys after your sorry ass.

Red Wolf

Advocating the eradication of 60 million people JUST because they are Iranian? Have you lost what passes for your feeble mind?

Very special SHUT THE FUCK UP to you, sir.

And you wonder why people say the right is unhinged, when a guy comes onto a pulbic website and ADVOCATES GENOCIDE.

And have we forgotten the science? That even a SINGLE NUCLEAR WARHEAD (fired from a ballistic missle submarine) would not only produce the explosive yeald equal to 200 Hiroshimas, but that we would have EIGHT such explosions (475 kiloton yield * 8 = 3.6 Megatons). Or in other words, enough to obliterate EVERYTHING within a 3-4 mile radius instantly and contaminate HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS, of miles with lethal doses of radiation that will take centuries to dissipate. And that's not counting the fact that such an explosion would create "nuclear winter" simply given the amount of ash, smoke and dust that would be blasted into the skies.

Is that what you're advocating, Red Wolf? What would amount to another Ice Age?

there's not much you can say to defend the white house, but it's still good that you are all keeping olbermann's feet to the fire. necessary for democracy to work. demand accountability and accuracy from the government and the media.
i brought up bohemian grove and the mock human sacrifice yesterday. since everyone accused me of dreaming it up, i'm posting this link to articles about the grove and photos from inside the grove. peace.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_bohemian_grove.html

You reacall the USSR??It's the nation Ronald Reagan defeated in the Cold War--the Cold WAAR--THAT oLBY HERO John" our troops are morons" Kerry, and Teddy Kenndey backed over their own President and own nation.
Media Matters #3---who cares more crap from this dunce.

Posted by: billy at November 18, 2006 02:29 AM

If you believe that it was Reagan alone that defeated the USSR you need your very deluded and unstable brain soaked and cleansed from the extreme bullshit that it has been infected with.

And have we forgotten the science? That even a SINGLE NUCLEAR WARHEAD (fired from a ballistic missle submarine) would not only produce the explosive yeald equal to 200 Hiroshimas, but that we would have EIGHT such explosions (475 kiloton yield * 8 = 3.6 Megatons). Or in other words, enough to obliterate EVERYTHING within a 3-4 mile radius instantly and contaminate HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS, of miles with lethal doses of radiation that will take centuries to dissipate. And that's not counting the fact that such an explosion would create "nuclear winter" simply given the amount of ash, smoke and dust that would be blasted into the skies.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 18, 2006 03:01 AM

Science? What? You aren't saying that those secular liberal loonies are going to stop the rapture are you? The nuclear winter will only affect the sinners so let them freeze. Your talking logic Anon. Be very careful here.

olby only likes cops when they are investigating fake anthrax sent to fake newscasters. His funny outrage over "racial profiling" is typical left wingnut. You would think that when cops are questioning you and detaining you it just might not be a good time to start whining about the patriot act like the dumbass college Iranian boy did. There is a proven way NOT to get your ass beat by the cops when when they ask for ID- SHOW YOUR ID! I guess they don't teach common sense at UCLA though only how to detect, determine and cry racism- hey it has worked for Jesse Jackson for 30 years so why not? Geez it lookes like one of the cops doing the "racial profiling" was big Black cop! I guess arabs and Iranians must be the new federally protected species.
As far as the olbynuttjob mentioning "Stalin" in the same sentence as UCLA I'll just bet there are many little commie clones in any southern california college.
But hey if you don't like cops the next time you are in trouble don't call a hippy - call olbermann. He'll be glad to do a segment on the injustices meted out by the cops hired to protect the citizentry. Just don't ask olbnyloon to stop whining about his mail.

Keith's new employee, I mean alleged "girlfriend" went to UC-Santa Barbara. Another spoiled, out-of-touch, wealthy child who has no idea what the real world is like or what it means to have to struggle to pay a bill. After all, she's had her real rich daddy and now her rich sugar daddy paying them for her all her life. So I guess she's supplying all the information about what life is really "like" on college campuses in Cali and how minorities are surpressed. I guess maybe this is why Olby likes him young: it keeps him in "touch" with the young people.

P.S. to Codas: Hope you're in the "zone" when the nuclear warhead goes off near you.

Hurrah....Olbermann is going to display for all of us, once again, his historical acumen. Vietnam is a wonderful subject on which to editorialize, especially with the current challenge in Iraq and the greater Middle East. Wow...I am excited, especially with the Drudge-like siren announcement!

"Learning the lessons from hitory with Olbermann," what a great way to spend my Monday night! This sucker should push the comments well above 300.

Dennis and Olby have something in common - misuse of corporate email and communications.

Let us begin our historical analysis of Vietnam after the 1975 American retreat.....

"The December 1975 Vietnam Courier, an official government publication, portrayed Vietnam as two distinct, incongruent societies. The South was reported to continue to suffer from what communists consider the neo-colonialist influences and feudal ideology of the United States, while the North was considered to serve as a progressive environment for growing numbers of a new kind of socialist human being, imbued with patriotism, proletarian internationalism, and socialist virtues. The class of social exploiter had been eliminated in the North, leaving the classes of workers collectivized peasant, and socialist intellectual, the last consisting of various groups. In contrast, the South was divided into a working class, peasantry, petit bourgeois, capitalist--or comprador--class, and the remnant of a feudal landlord class."

from http://countrystudies.us/vietnam/40.htm

Freedom lost in South Vietnam that was soon to be replaced with something else. I wonder if Olbermann will discuss this aspect of history.

Some more post-retreat commentary.....

"The Hanoi government has claimed that not a single political execution took place in the South after 1975, even in cases of grave war crimes. Generally, the foreign press corroborated this claim by reporting in 1975 that there seemed to be no overt indication of the blood bath that many Western observers had predicted would occur in the wake of the communist takeover. Some Western observers, however, have estimated that as many as 65,000 South Vietnamese may have been executed."

Nice. Should Iraq be treated like Vietnam?

Oh, and don't forget about the killing fields in Maoist Cambodia after the war......

"By 12 April 1975, the Khmer Rouge had entered the Cambodian capital ao Phnom Penh. Only hours before their arrival, the U.S. had launched Operation Eagle Pull, an evacuation similar to Frequent Wind. U.S. Ambassador John G. Dean boarded a Marine helicopter and left the city. The communist victory plunged the nation into darkness as the cities and towns were forcibly evacuated, their inhabitants herded into the countryside to begin the construction of a Maoist paradise in Democratic Kampuchea."

This would be a good thing for the Middle East, Mr. Olbermann?

P.S. to Codas: Hope you're in the "zone" when the nuclear warhead goes off near you.

Posted by: Keith's a Fraud at November 18, 2006 08:43 AM

Keith is not a fraud. And. YOU are a testa di merda!

More Vietnam history:

"In the years after the fall of Saigon, as many as 400,000 Southerners who fought or worked for the ousted pro-American regime were rounded up and forced into reeducation camps. Doctors, soldiers, engineers, businessmen—some of the very people who could have helped put the shattered country back together again were instead forced to perform back-breaking menial labor and pen mindless 'self-criticism.'"

I wonder what the Shia and Sunni will do eachother in Iraq after The US withdraws?

Who cares?

More Vietnam history:

Posted by: cee at November 18, 2006 11:16 AM

Does it ever dawn on you that the biggest mistake about Vietnam was going there. Much like Iraq.

No Codas,

The biggest mistake in Vietnam and in Iraq are the same mistake: just playing defense. The insurgency in Iraq is largely fueled by Iran and Syria. We should have been attacking Iranian and Syrian military bases long ago, killing their soldiers, and destroying their tanks, planes, and ships. I think that would work. Just by coincidence, that's what I have wanted us to do to Iran and Syria for the last 20 years.
So I am consistent.

I cannot watch last night show, first, John Dean, Keith's buddy, joins the crowd to write a book bashing the President and his administraton and make money, a typical hypocite. Second and the last, TomKat's wedding, who cares, MSNBC is all over it. I just tunes in this morning and checks the news, BREAKING NEWS, TomKat wedding is just about to happen. Oh Lord, I switch the channel.

Did Keith say anything about the KeithKat wedding? I wm wondering who is the best man to cover it, guess who, Robert Cox and this website and we will help.

Codas,

Nice rebut....I hope the dems keep using that one because it is a response that has no honor or commitment to the cause of freedom. It has NO solution to the challenges that have presented themselves in the last 3 years. That rebutal contains NO constructive plan to help millions of people in a country that was oppressed by a vicious dictator for decades. Nice.

"You made your bed, now lay in it."

The Vietnamese (in the north and south), Cambodians, Laosians, and millions of other people paid the price because NO ONE (Johnson, Nixon, Ford, McGovern, anyone) could not do what was right in getting victory for freedom over Communism in southeast asia. Yeah, let's make that same mistake again.....who cares about millions of people in Iraq?

Mistakes are usually FIXED....not ignored, then eventually walked away from. I know this is a component of postmodernist philosophy, but it has real life and death consequences. The debate society can argue what the biggest mistake was....it does nothing to FIXING the problem.

I liken this world view to abortion. Accidental pregnancy (mistake)....consequences? responsibilities? honor (BOTH FATHER and MOTHER)?
No.....just retreat to a position that at one time was unthinkable....kill your own baby.

Much like "Plan 9 From Outer Space," the left's ideological roadmap is so bereft of anything resembling a clear strategy, the truly intelligent are lulled into a flase sense of security, believing that all things ingnorant eventually die off in true evolutionary fashion.

Unfortunately, the petulant little trolls continue to multiply to the detriment of us all.

In other words, they're a complete waste of space. To quote Olby's favorite dead comedian: "[They're] a virus with shoes."

Eric in Hollywood

Robert,

You remember the pink tie that Keith has, that "Pink" looks better on this website. I don't think Keith is that 'hot".

I liken this world view to abortion. Accidental pregnancy (mistake)....consequences? responsibilities? honor (BOTH FATHER and MOTHER)?
No.....just retreat to a position that at one time was unthinkable....kill your own baby.

Posted by: cee at November 18, 2006 11:58 AM

We attacked a country that did not invade or threaten us. You think we should make the most of the situation. What the heck, we already killed a bunch of them, lets kill them all and justify it by saying just think how many will die if we don't. You are using the bible to justify murder again. The middle east has nothing but oil and jews that have anything to do with this country. Israel should be defended. The oil is THERES! Thou shat not covet thy neighbors good cee. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness. Thou shalt not kill. Tho shalt have no fals gods before thee. How many more commandents do you think we should break in the name of almighty oil. If someone wants to, as many have, make a case for war with Iraq, Iran, Syria etc.. and does it without bringing God into it, I will listen. If you keep trying to talk like a believer and act like a murdering pagan your talking to the wrong guy.

Codas:
"We attacked a country that did not invade or threaten us"

Just curious. This is not a "gotcha" question that attempts to trap you in an inconsistency.

What did you think of President Clinton taking military action in the former Yugoslavia/Serbia/Bosnia?

Again, not trying to catch you in an inconsistency.

Codas:
"We attacked a country that did not invade or threaten us"

Just curious. This is not a "gotcha" question that attempts to trap you in an inconsistency.

What did you think of President Clinton taking military action in the former Yugoslavia/Serbia/Bosnia?

Again, not trying to catch you in an inconsistency.

Posted by: Ohboy at November 18, 2006 01:32 PM

Good question. I was dead set against it until Clinton gave a speech and laid out why he thought it important and described the history of the region with detail and evidently a knowledge of the region that gave him credibility to me. I have said before that if Bush would have done the same, he might convince me. But I feel he wasn't honest about why he though we should go to war. I still think he is ignorant about the ramifications of that decision. He clearly didn't think things through. Now we ARE damed if we do and damed if we don't.

Cee says, "Mistakes are usually FIXED....not ignored, then eventually walked away from."

What on Earth are you talking about? No one is advocating ignoring the mistake. Staunch opponents of the war simply believe staying is the mistake. Simple opponents of the war believe the mistake is continuing the current direction, a position supported by the consistantly deteriorating circumstances in Iraq. Proponents of the war believe that the war will eventually have a positive impact on the region and in turn the world.

All are positions of some merrit. To not acknowledge their worth is to live in self imposed ignorance. To acknowledge them and yet disagree is at least honest, and at most thoughtful and noble. Oversimplified statements such as "cut and run" or "stay and pay" do nothing to further intelligent debate in this country. It suggests the kind of false carelesness that you imply in your own ignorant assertion. Stop being a stereotype and start thinking.

Sincerely,
Josh

there's not much you can say to defend the white house, but it's still good that you are all keeping olbermann's feet to the fire. necessary for democracy to work. demand accountability and accuracy from the government and the media.
i brought up bohemian grove and the mock human sacrifice yesterday. since everyone accused me of dreaming it up, i'm posting this link to articles about the grove and photos from inside the grove. peace.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_bohemian_grove.html

Clean up on Aisle 3. Please stop the spam somehow. I have a feeling that some of KO's more desperate fans are hoping to have this site delisted from Google, citing the numerous spam links that appear on this site.

Do you mean the casino/poker spam, or the people posting links to sites that claim the 9/11 attacks were an inside job, like tt above. Sheesh, I think I'd rather read the casino ads than give five seconds of credibility to anyone who believes "sources" like that.

Monday's special comment should be titled "A rewriting of Vietnam history". The comment will most likely start with how Bush caused the Vietnam war then how Bush avoided going to Vietnam and end with how Bush should have learned from his Vietnam mistakes.

codas,

I am simply responding to what the very left of the democratic party is saying. I recently posted an analysis of the midterm elections that came from Daily Kos. In essence, it said the repbulcians lost because of these three top three reasons:

Iraq
Iraq
Iraq

Then it was said this was Bush's "hot potato," and the democratic leadership should pressure for our withdrawl. The blogger also said that the dems DO NOT need a plan, it is Bush's mess to clean up. Ok...fine, a position that can be taken, but I can also be critical of it and simply point out the fact that deserting the Iraqi people as the left wants to do will result in what happened after we deserted the South Vietnamese.

I am sorry you cannot see ALL of the possible parallels to Vietnam, only the ones that support your opinion of withdrawl. I am sure Olbermann will only make parallels that support his opinion as well.

And Josh, the extreme left ONLY wants us out. Period. This is the position I was against before the election and I am now MORE against it because the dems owe so much to that fringe and now have political leverage to accomplish it. Just as Watergate put the final nail in the coffin of any positive outcome for democracy in Vietnam, so may the current POLITICAL mood today, for Iraq, cause short sighted and selfish decisions. Fine. I just want us all to be honest about the situation.

Lastly codas, I did not mention ONE biblical passage in my argument. Please stop trying to discuss something you have no intention of allowing to guide your thinking....you only apply the scriptures as a debate tool just like your atheist friends. Why use the bible if you do not believe it is true and inspired?

you folks at this site are so pathetic. this whole site is pathetic. you must be so threatened by Keith Olbermann to make a site obsessing about him.

Spam abounds, folks.

We've got the whole tribe in an uproar.

Just so ya know...

Eric in Hollywood

They seem to think that winning the House and the Senate also won them the internet and the right to surpress our dissenting opinions on their hero.

Since we lost the house and the senate we are the dissenters now. And Olbyloons and other leftists always say that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism". Therefore, dissing Krazy Keith is the highest form of patriotism.

Lastly codas, I did not mention ONE biblical passage in my argument. Please stop trying to discuss something you have no intention of allowing to guide your thinking....you only apply the scriptures as a debate tool just like your atheist friends. Why use the bible if you do not believe it is true and inspired?

Posted by: cee at November 18, 2006 07:16 PM

You have a problem when someone believes scripture but does not go along with your interpitation of it. YOU brought up " postmodernist philosophy", and we know you counter that with your born again christianity. I quote what you and I consider Gods word and you know you can't dispute what it says. Instead you once again lump me in with the athiests. You say I only use the bible as a debate tool and you have used scripture your own self and you know it. Once again, it has to be your way, no other for it to be valid. You assume that only you know what scripture means? cee, I am really sorry that you have been decieved into thinking that killing more north vietnamese or muslims is what God wants. I really am sorry. It is sad that there is a form of Christianity that doesn't believe that his word and his presence is sufficient to do battle with powers and principalties and spiritual wickedness in high places. You believe in the sword as you have clearly stated time and time again. When Christ said "as you have done to the least of my brothers, you have done to me" do you think he forgot to add "except those who live under a dictator or a Muslim theocracy. Those you may kill in the hope of them seeing the light and if you are first attacked you must stay the course and reject all those who promote peace. I was only joking when I said blessed are the peace makers. They are traitors to America who I have chosen as my protectors of Israel. If any human is removed from there homes and tortured or loses family members and wars against you, you are to stay the course and kill them all. You must not obey any commandents of love thy neighbor until the only neighbors you have are born again Christians or Jews that will be punished after the rapture, so love them until I come to kill them. Remember that believers in me are permitted to kill in my name. I will not hold them into account because no one who kills in my name will later speak evil of me" .

Does all that sound blasphemous. It does to me.

codas,
You're just an idiotic Ilsmic lover. That's why the West is in danger fools like you that don't see the danger to our civilization. You should read the history of Islamic Imperialism, starting with their invasion of Roman and Persian Empires in the 630's.
You obviously see that it's happening again. They openly talking of conquering the West. With naive fools like you they pull it off!

codas,
You're just an idiotic Ilsmic lover. That's why the West is in danger fools like you that don't see the danger to our civilization. You should read the history of Islamic Imperialism, starting with their invasion of Roman and Persian Empires in the 630's.
You obviously see that it's happening again. They openly talking of conquering the West. With naive fools like you they pull it off!

Posted by: Red Wolf at November 19, 2006 12:34 AM

They can't even conquer their own countries. No I don't think America is going to become an Islamic state. What are they going to do to make you praise allah? Do you have no faith in democracy at all? We survived a civil war. The depresion. Two world wars. The 60's.Vietnam. Watergate. Reaganomics. "Sorry Janet". You think a bunch of mullahs and the Koran are going to destroy the civilized world. They haven't ruled the world in a long time. They won't be ruling it anytime soon.

Codas,
"You think a bunch of mullahs and the Koran are going to destroy the civilized world. They haven't ruled the world in a long time. They won't be ruling it anytime soon."

That was the opinion the Romans and Persians had about them. The are hungry and ready to die for their cause. We are not. we have a bunch of Leftists like you that symmpathize with them.
Look at France, theere are towns where French people can't go in at night. They're controlled by Islamic Gangs. They are gaining strnght and numbers in Western Europe. Iran will soon have nukes and will use it. Wake up and don't underestimate your enemy.

"Do you have no faith in democracy at all? "
With Leftist loons like you controlling the media and either sympathizing with or blind yo the Islamic threat I don't. Only a Military Dictatorship can save America from the coming Islamic and Chinese onslaught.
Remeber that Istanbul was once the Roman capital Constantinople. Persian were once Zorastorian, now they're Islamic Supremists wanting to destroy Israel and america.
Wake up you naive fool!

"Only a Military Dictatorship can save America from the coming Islamic and Chinese onslaught."

Advocating GENOCIDE and the use of NUCLEAR WEAPONS?

Suggesting an AMERICAN MILITARY DICTATORSHIP?

ARE YOU NUCKING FUTS? (and yes, that is a serious question)

Only a Military Dictatorship can save America from the coming Islamic and Chinese onslaught."

Advocating GENOCIDE and the use of NUCLEAR WEAPONS?

Suggesting an AMERICAN MILITARY DICTATORSHIP?

ARE YOU NUCKING FUTS? (and yes, that is a serious question)

Posted by: Anonymous at November 19, 2006 01:48 AM

You don't even need to ask do you? The answer is clearly yes.

codas,

You have a short memory. Previously, I asked you if you were a pacifist...you said you were not. Christ could arguably be called pacifist because as The Lamb of God He willingly died without cross word or struggle at the hands of violent and sinful men. His entire reason to come was for this atoning sacrifice, period...read the bible and see the truth. He was not only a philosopher, He was not only a wise teacher, He was not only a good person....He was all of those things ONLY because He was God with us (Emmanuel). If you disagree with this interpretation then all I have to say is.....how?

I am a sinful man....you are a sinful man....we are surrounded by sinful people. Sin leads to death. Again, if you disagree with this interpretation then all I have to say is.....how?

Sin causes war. Guess who is the ONLY cure for sin? Christ. Again, if you disagree with this interpretation then all I have to say is.....how?

Now, if you see the solution to war as not responding to it with like force (pacifism), I will respect and be in awe of your position. But if you selectively say it is just to wage violence based on Christ's teaching....again I ask HOW? How do you justufy this selective outrage to death and murder from Christ's life?

I don't get angry at different interpretations of the scriptures....I get angry when someone uses the scriptures to justify their sinful behavior.

Islamic terrorism states unapoligetically that they are killing in the name of Allah. Show me one post I have made that I said we were killing in the name of Yahweh...You cannot. I do not justify the war on terrorism based on biblical teachings...again if I have....show me the quotes.

"Remember that believers in me are permitted to kill in my name. I will not hold them into account because no one who kills in my name will later speak evil of me." Where did this come from?

I believe our nation is just in defending freedom (with the use of force) for Iraqis and that if we withdraw we abandon that denfense....You disagree...But don't make it like you are more like Christ because of your opinion....unless you are a pacifist....then, yes, I will defer to your opinion. Codas, you have said you are not a pacifist...then you are the one living the contradiction.

The abortion reference was to show how people like you start calling evil good based on the easy way out. Mistakes are correctable....but some solutions require actions previously thought to be out of the question. Instead of raising the child or giving the child away to someone willing to raise the child, people now allow doctors to use sharp instruments to rip the child out of their bodies. Fine. It is their choice....but a choice that contradicts all we know about when life begins.

Same with this war. Same with the Vietnam war. Surrender was unthinkable in times past....when mistakes were made in previous conflicts...The Civil War, WWI, WWII, leaders did not say..."oh well...lets withdraw"...The fight continued until the war was won. After the 1950's and the influence of postmodernism....people now accept, without question, attrition and then when a point is reached....acquiescence. The country we have grown to enjoy living in will not stand for long if this is the attitude we have against the evil intentions of people vowing to our destruction.

You are in concert with atheists, codas, this is a fact. They look at your belief in God with derision, but you choose to ignore their scoffing. You claim I have been manipulated by people based on my Christian beliefs. The truth is you have been manipulated by secularists because of your lack of faith. I guess we are similar in this respect.

The truth hurts, codas, but you continue to try to turn the scriptures against me and it doesn't work out. I behave contradictory to Christ's teachings everyday...as do you...that is why the idea of grace (God's unmerited favor) is the only truthful way to interpret ALL of scripture...Genesis through Revelation....Abraham through Christ....The Ten Commandments through the crucifiction. If you are reading the bible without applying "grace," you will ALWAYS misinterpret it.

Sin causes war. Guess who is the ONLY cure for sin? Christ. Again, if you disagree with this interpretation then all I have to say is.....how?

Posted by: cee at November 19, 2006 07:27 AM

Your talking out of both sides of your mouth. Grace for you. Death to the traitorous enemy of your world view.

Same with this war. Same with the Vietnam war. Surrender was unthinkable in times past....when mistakes were made in previous conflicts...The Civil War, WWI, WWII, leaders did not say..."oh well...lets withdraw"...The fight continued until the war was won. After the 1950's and the influence of postmodernism....people now accept, without question, attrition and then when a point is reached....acquiescence. The country we have grown to enjoy living in will not stand for long if this is the attitude we have against the evil intentions of people vowing to our destruction.

Posted by: codas at November 19, 2006 08:05 AM

This statement boggles the mind. I Don't even know where to begin so I won't. I hope a wiser mind prevails in our foreign policy than whatever minds are influencing yours.

"Same with this war. Same with the Vietnam war. Surrender was unthinkable in times past....when mistakes were made in previous conflicts...The Civil War, WWI, WWII, leaders did not say..."oh well...lets withdraw"...The fight continued until the war was won. After the 1950's and the influence of postmodernism....people now accept, without question, attrition and then when a point is reached....acquiescence. The country we have grown to enjoy living in will not stand for long if this is the attitude we have against the evil intentions of people vowing to our destruction."

Never a truer word was spoken.

Surrender was unthinkable in times past....when mistakes were made in previous conflicts...The Civil War, WWI, WWII, leaders did not say..."oh well...lets withdraw"...The fight continued until the war was won.
Posted by: cee at November 19, 2006 07:27 AM

Comparing The Civil War, WWI, WWII, with the war in Iraq is insane. The civil war was OUR war. WWI, WWII were fought with plenty of allies and a achievable goal. I AM SICK OF SEEING SERVICEMEN KILLED IN IRAQ. What was the goal? WMD's and Sadam. They are both GONE. The country is more dangerous than it was before we got there. Hanging on to a losing strategy is a sign of LOSER. Why do you want to put our servicemen in a no win situation? Give them 1 more year and then LEAVE!

His entire reason to come was for this atoning sacrifice, period...read the bible and see the truth. He was not only a philosopher, He was not only a wise teacher, He was not only a good person....He was all of those things ONLY because He was God with us (Emmanuel). If you disagree with this interpretation then all I have to say is.....how?
Posted by: cee at November 19, 2006 07:27 AM

I asked you how you can justify knowing Christ with attacking other countries over oil and Israel AND revenge. You tell me Jesus was a pacifist so you don't have to be one. YOU say his entire reason for coming was his atoning sacrifice. I think he did some teaching while he was here. Do you disagree with his teachings cee? That is your right. Many people do. Why did he ask "Why do you call me Lord and not do what I say?" Could it be that the lips honor but the heart is far from him? I am the one who is supposedly the friend to athiests cee. Why is it that so many only love Jesus for what they can get out of him? Salvation. Was his teachings just fill in stuff before he went to the cross? Just because he was the attonement for our sins, do you think that you can now disregard what he COMMANDED, not asked us to do if it wasn't to much trouble. Your rationale argument against pacifism isn't with me. It's with him.

Interesting. Kissinger has just stated,"If you mean by 'military victory' an Iraqi government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible,"

If Pelosi or Dean or Clinton said that they would be called out for demoralizing the troops.

Codas,
Your just an Islamic sypathizing fool. You're a Dhimmi, someone who subservient to Islam.

And you're insane, Red Wolf, as shown by your advocating a military dictatorship. So I don't think you're qualified to be analyzing other people.

And just so we're clear, on can DISAGREE with current policy without being SUBSERVIENT TO ISLAM. There is a difference, fool.

KEITH OLBERMANN, "COUNTDOWN" HOST: This basically is it, right? To see a memo from Fox’s senior editorial vice president in black and white the day after the election last week prophesying the day’s news and then making the news fit the prophecy. It is a smoking gun. Is it not?

GREENWALD: There’s no question about it. And it’s the worst kind of obscenity. I really think they’ve crossed a new line here. In the year I spent studying them, in the memos we got from “Outfoxed” we compiled them. But to do it immediately after the election and to make these kinds of accusations and then to force the facts to fit what they want it to fit, really to me has brought them to a new line. If they were journalists they would be ashamed. But they’re not.

And the Huffington Post and your show are to be commended for not allowing them to continue to get away with this. Now remember, Dan Rather was fired for not fact checking. I want Rupert Murdoch to fire whoever put out this memo now and to call for an investigation now of Fox News if they had anything to do with being a news organization.

"prophesying the day’s news and then making the news fit the prophecy." Olbermann does this on a daily basis. Olbermann indicated that Rove would be in prison many times.

Anonymous,
You are subservient to Islam. they are raised to hate Non Muslims and want to wipe us out. Well lets wipe them out!
You're a typical Ledtists Dhimmi, since you love Islam so much move to Saudi Arabia or Iran!

Anonymous,
You are subservient to Islam. they are raised to hate Non Muslims and want to wipe us out. Well lets wipe them out!
You're a typical Ledtists Dhimmi, since you love Islam so much move to Saudi Arabia or Iran!

Anonymous,
You are subservient to Islam. they are raised to hate Non Muslims and want to wipe us out. Well lets wipe them out!
You're a typical Ledtists Dhimmi, since you love Islam so much move to Saudi Arabia or Iran!

Posted by: Red Wolf at November 19, 2006 08:52 PM

Since you can't tolerate debate and a difference of opinion in a democracy why don't you go to Saudi Arabia or China?

"You are subservient to Islam."

You don't know me, a--hole. So don't presume to tell me what I do and don't do.

I know what you are, because you have said what you are. You advocate GENOCIDE based upon race. That makes you a bigot.

You advocate a MILITARY DICTATORSHIP. That makes you anti-democratic.

"You're a typical Ledtists Dhimmi, since you love Islam so much move to Saudi Arabia or Iran!"

And a generous FUCK OFF to you, sir! Go back to your bunker before the black helicopters get you!

Red Wolf did not advocate genocide based upon race. He advocated genocide based upon religion. Not the same thing!

Since lots of Muslims advocate genocide against the Infidels, and are attempting to do so, we Infidels don't want to just sit around twiddling our thumbs waiting for that to happen.

"Red Wolf did not advocate genocide based upon race. He advocated genocide based upon religion. Not the same thing!"

A distinction without a difference. A bigot is a bigot, regardless of whether it be because of race or religion.

"Since lots of Muslims advocate genocide against the Infidels, and are attempting to do so, we Infidels don't want to just sit around twiddling our thumbs waiting for that to happen."

How many is "lots"? There are 1 BILLION people who believe in Islam. Even if there were, say, 50 million who advocated genocide of "Infidels", you still have 95% of practicing Muslims who don't.

Anonymous,

Ten years ago I concluded that about half the Muslims in the world wanted all of us dead. I say that number is pretty close.

Suppose it is "only" 50 million. What's your plan to take care of those 50 million?

Anonymous,

Ten years ago I concluded that about half the Muslims in the world wanted all of us dead. I say that number is pretty close.

Suppose it is "only" 50 million. What's your plan to take care of those 50 million?

Posted by: Rico at November 19, 2006 10:42 PM

Why do you think they want us dead?

For the same reason that the Japanese and Germans did in World War II.

"Suppose it is "only" 50 million. What's your plan to take care of those 50 million?"

It certainly isn't indiscriminate killing - that's a recipe for disaster.

Anonymous,

Why did the Germans and Japanese hate us during World War II?

For the same reason that the Japanese and Germans did in World War II.

Posted by: Rico at November 19, 2006 10:49 PM

I don't think that is true at all. I don't think most Muslims want much more than any human wants.

Codas,

You forgot about the "wanting us dead" part.

codas,
Explain the 1st thing the Muslims did was attack Roamn and Persian Empires? Do you read history or are you just a brainwashed fool?
Answer my question?
Why did they attack Visigothic Spain and then India?
It's a peaceful society right?
Wasn't Istanbul once Roman Constantinople?

Codas,
Why is Islam always at war with it's neighbors?

Cee syas, "the extreme left ONLY wants us out. Period."

C'mon Cee. The extreme left wants people to stop dieing. Just like you do... hopefullly. It just so happens that they think the best way to preserve life is to stop shooting people and invading their country. Maybe it is too simple and maybe it isn't. You have to admit it makes a certain amount of sense.

Their beliefs are no less valid than yours. They would advocate staying just as quickly as you if it were obviously beneficial to stay, but it isn't obvious.

It's not that the far left wants us out at any cost. They are simply tired of watching people die, paying taxes to have them killed, and pissing off almost every allied nation we have in the process. Undeniably, this is what is occurring in America today. Do not dismiss them as fringe fanatics, they care about you and yours too.

Sincerely,
Josh

Come on little coda explain the history of Islamic Imperialism starting in the 600's?

Josh,
If we leave Iraq do you think the Muslims will stop there. theyu want global domination. Stop being naive!

Josh,
If we leave Iraq do you think the Muslims will stop there. theyu want global domination. Stop being naive!

Josh,

The ignoring of facts is what bothers me. Withdrawing from an armed conflict MEANS something. In 1975, the South Vietnamese government had a treaty with The United States that was clear and obvious. The reality of the previous 10 years with all of the military mistakes on the ground and all of the selfish domestic political calculations resulted in the loss of will to protect democracy in a small country. Many people, from Johnson to Nixon, are guilty for not leading our country with honor to victory in that conflict.

No one can tell me that the Viet Cong, like the present day Al Queda and militant Islamic factions in Iraq, are RIGHT. They kill civilians, they use terrorist tactics, they torture prisoners....THESE ARE THEIR OFFICIAL POLICIES....just like the Viet Cong.

We, the forces created by The United States, stand in opposition to this evil in Iraq....just like we did in Vietnam. Stopping this DEFENSIVE engagement has consequences....for millions....just like it did in 1975 southeast Asia. The left wants to ignore this potential human rights tragedy, jusat like they igonored the death in Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam....fine, ignore it....but DON'T continue feeling morally superior then....because you are NOT.

Codas likes to throw his moral superiority around...but he admits to NOT being a pacifist...so he is just like everyone else who condones violence to achieve goals. If he followed his scriptural interpretation, HE WOULD NOT ALLOW ANY VIOLENT RESPONSE TO THREAT. He refuses to face that reality and is being boldly hypocritical.

If and when we withdraw from Iraq and atrocities/revenge/death occurs, no one on the left will be honest in saying that the Iraqi people are better off....just like they (the left) tried to say the South Vietnamese, Laosians and Cambodians were, "better off." Millions died as a result of The Untied States' failure. It is historical FACT. Olbermann will not address this fact tonight (my prediction)....but if he does it will be just as twisted and morally bankrupt as codas' conclusions.

There is hope if I can actually agree with Chalie Rangel!

From AP

"Rangel said he will propose a [conscription]measure early next year. While he said he is serious about the proposal, there is little evident support among the public or lawmakers for it.

"In 2003, Rangel proposed a measure covering people age 18 to 26. It was defeated 402-2 the following year. This year, he offered a plan to mandate military service for men and women between age 18 and 42; it went nowhere in the Republican-led Congress.

"Democrats will control the House and Senate come January because of their victories in the Nov. 7 election.

"At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, 'I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft,' said Rangel, who also proposed a draft in January 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq. 'I think to do so is hypocritical.'"

The possiblilty of a draft will finally force people to decide if freedom is worth fighting for. It is necessary. If there is societal tulmult in the form of a draft protest like the late 60's and early 70's, then we will get our answer.

That's CHARLIE Rangel....

I wonder if Olbermann will discuss the return of the draft tonight?

Codas likes to throw his moral superiority around...but he admits to NOT being a pacifist...so he is just like everyone else who condones violence to achieve goals. If he followed his scriptural interpretation, HE WOULD NOT ALLOW ANY VIOLENT RESPONSE TO THREAT. He refuses to face that reality and is being boldly hypocritical.
Posted by: cee at November 20, 2006 05:59 AM

I said it once, I will say it a million times. YOU are the one who thinks you are morally superior. YOU mix your religion with your wars. I do not clothe what I would or would not do when faced with violence with my religion and then call people who would not do the same as me Godless. The decision to attack Iraq was wrong in my mind cee. I have said it from the start. You justify the war in your own mind by using the fact that liberal democrats, which you see as secular and Godless are against it. That might make you feel morally superior but it doesn't make you right.

Cee,

Do not trust Charlie Rangel. He is proposing to reinstate the draft for the wrong reasons. Rangel doesn't want us fighting in Iraq or any place else.

It is Charlie's hope that the reinstated draft will convince every last conservative young man in America to wet his pants at the thought of getting drafted, turn into a dingbat liberal, and demand that we get out of Iraq now.

Charlie wants us to lose so bad in Iraq he will pull any scam to have that happen.

Although I am against the idea of a draft, and think Rangel is making a mistake by bringing it up, if there was a draft half the people posting in support of the war would be running for cover. A million excuses not to go. I'll bet those soccer moms would be marching on the white house right now.

Cods,

Like I said, Charlie Rangel is proposing to reinstate the draft as a "strategery" to make sure that we lose in Iraq.

If we lose in Iraq, you lose. That is not good for you, Codas.

That's my point Rico....The draft will force every American to decide what kind of world they want to live in and what it's worth to them....The current world we all enjoy with freedom or the continuing decline towards defeat because people do not know how much the cost for freedom is...A draft would mean people having to commit....either you are a pacifist or you are not. The liberals who take their freedom for granted to the conservative "chicken-hawk" would have to lay their cards on the table....it would be a great cathartic episode.

Codas,

Look, I always thought the volunteer military was stupid. It has always been my opinion that every young person out of high school should have to do some kind of service, military or otherwise. But the draft ain't going to happen.

Rangel keeps bringing up this issue since we went into Iraq. Even his fellow Democrats wish he would shut up about it. It is a stunt, pure and simple.

The liberals who take their freedom for granted to the conservative "chicken-hawk" would have to lay their cards on the table....it would be a great cathartic episode.

Posted by: cee at November 20, 2006 09:17 AM

And so would you. I was didn't take my freedom for granted before Iraq, and I don't now. I use my freedom to express my opinion and then certain people seem to get upset about that freedom. Ironic isn't it that the people most commited to bringing democract to Iraq are the ones that have the biggest problems with people who oppose their ideas.

Rangel keeps bringing up this issue since we went into Iraq. Even his fellow Democrats wish he would shut up about it. It is a stunt, pure and simple.

Posted by: Rico at November 20, 2006 09:24 AM

I agree that his motives are not right. The draft issue WILL come up if we continue down the path of being the cops for the rest of the world.

Cee,

Charlie Rangel is a snake. Never trust him. The draft is a non-starter.

Codas,

When did I say you shouldn't express your opinion. I say your opinion is wrong, but you have every right to it.

Rangel wants the draft to go up to age 42, so yes...I would be subject to it. I would not protest it, I would submit to it and when my son is 18, I would advise him to obey the law and submit to it as well. If he chose not to submit, I would support the penalty due him and advise him to take as a man.

The protesters against the draft would need to be pacifists in my mind...Rangel is correct to site hypocrisy in the argument against the draft. And if Rangel is bluffing, then I say...."call his bluff."

The protesters against the draft would need to be pacifists in my mind...
Posted by: cee at November 20, 2006 09:36 AM

Question. Do you concider everyone who is against the war in Iraq a hypocrite if they are not professing pacifists. I don't consider myself a pacifist. I am against this war and against the draft. What does that make me?

Codas,

The arguments for your opposition to the Iraq war is riddled with contradictions, however, that does not make you a hypocrite.

Your opposition to legislation for a draft also may be riddled with contradictions, but again, I see no hypocrisy, per se.

However, after a law is passed through democratic means....the congress approves and the president signs...and that law says people must serve, then only those who are pacifists can morally claim to be exempt (without physical reasons). It is the law, and if people protest conscription then they have to decide....is it moral to use force or not. Would you avoid a draft or support people who illegally avoided the draft, codas?

Would you avoid a draft or support people who illegally avoided the draft, codas?

Posted by: cee at November 20, 2006 10:46 AM

If it was to be sent to Iraq the answer is yes and yes. If there was a draft, we wouldn't be in Iraq at this point. Although it is Rangel who is bringing it up it won't be a democrat that reinstututes the draft. If this country can get past the Bush years we won't need one.

Wishful thinking, codas...and very cynical as well. This is the ridiculous conclusion that many will come to, because it is politically easy. It is a nice to know that many of the draftable population would be against such a thing, not based on whether killing others in war is morally wrong, but only because they want the ability to have freedom and not to commit to the defense of their country.

So codas, let me understand your position, it is moral to kill islamic jihadists in Afghanistan but not kill them in Iraq? It is morally ok to kill nazi Germans and fascist Italians in Europe and imperialist Japanese in the pacific but not kill Viet Cong in Vietnam? How about North Koreans in the DMZ, are they ok to kill? Why the differences?

You can use your bible if you want.

BUSH SAYS MIDTERMS NOT ABOUT IRAQ, FAILED GOP POLICIES

-- Vows to Stay Course Till Voters Repudiate Republicans Further in '08 --

WASHINGTON -- Rejecting the idea that the recent midterm election "thumping" was in reaction to the Republican party's mishandling of both foreign and domestic issues including Iraq, Katrina, congressional corruption, fiscal responsibility, and stem cell research, President Bush vowed to continue his failed and unpopular policies until they cost the GOP the Presidency in 2008. Speaking at the global summit in Hanoi, Bush restated his resolve to stay the course despite what voters desire, saying, "I'm not real big on facts -- the facts may change, but my beliefs remain firm -- regardless of the consequences."

So codas, let me understand your position, it is moral to kill islamic jihadists in Afghanistan but not kill them in Iraq? It is morally ok to kill nazi Germans and fascist Italians in Europe and imperialist Japanese in the pacific but not kill Viet Cong in Vietnam? How about North Koreans in the DMZ, are they ok to kill? Why the differences?

You can use your bible if you want.

Posted by: cee at November 20, 2006 11:19 AM

cee. I don't need no Bible to tell me that that is the stupidest thing you ever said. Is it more immoral to kill the guy that lives across the street from you who never cuts his lawn or the one that raped your sister? According to what you just said , you make no difference between any circumstances at all. War is war. Why aren't we are war with mexico? Or Canada? Or Cuba?

cee, forget it - waste your time no longer...

This tool obvciously has no intention of engaging in debate. Rather, he seems to be of the singularly ridiculous opinion that he and his fellow American Castrati are alone in the universe when it comes to realizing the "full human potential." They, and they alone, are able to save us from ourselves, and are becoming increasingly unhinged with any worldview that dares to contradict their own, foul, sense of reality.

They are petulant children, and will soon find their beliefs consigned to the ash heap of history.

They, and they alone, are able to save us from ourselves, and are becoming increasingly unhinged with any worldview that dares to contradict their own, foul, sense of reality.

Posted by: HollywoodNeoCon at November 20, 2006 12:49 PM

I couldn't have described any better than you just did. I am so glad that your kind of thinking is the minority in this great country. You are so shrill and out of the mainstream of political thought. Maybe if your party wasn't so divisive it would win some votes in the future.

Sorry, coda, but if you're attempting to elicit some form of response from yours truly, than you're wasting your time, as well.

You're not even CLOSE to being able to argue with me, but the sheer arrogance of attempting to do so is so very typical of your worldview.

You'd do better to restrict your comments to those who enjoy taunting the tin-foil-hat-wearing set.

Simply put, you're out of your league, sweetie.

Simply put, you're out of your league, sweetie.

Posted by: HollywoodNeoCon at November 20, 2006 01:04 PM

And for that I am truly thankful. You are in a league all your own. I used to work with mental health residents. Please dont forget to take your medication. The delusions of granduer will cease. Try not to hurt yourself today.

Now that we've gotten the distraction out of the way, perhaps the point you originally tried to make, cee, might be well addressed.

The notion of a draft forestalling war is infantile at best, and dangerous at worst. Civilizations are composed of human beings, all of whom are flawed in one way or another. Despite the utopian fantasies maintained by the left, war is every bit as much a part of humanity as the necessity for oxygen.

For Mr. Rangle to argue otherwise only serves to illustrate the reason why the DNC will never fully have the trust of the American people when it comes to national security.

Codas,

The examples I gave you were sworn enemies in conflicts we were engaged in the last 65 years....stay focused, codas....Cuba, Canada and Mexico have not dispatched individuals to shoot at us or our allies nor have they made their citizens swear an oath to destroy us or our allies. I could go back further if you need help...including the Kaiser's army, the Spanish and The Confederacy's soldiers. Were these human beings ok to kill, Codas? When is it ok to kill according to the wise codas, even without the guidance of the bible. Self defense only? Well you clearly said yourself that Christ would not do such a thing...what happened to Him, codas?

Are you or are you not a pacifist?

The notion of a draft forestalling war is infantile at best, and dangerous at worst. Civilizations are composed of human beings, all of whom are flawed in one way or another. Despite the utopian fantasies maintained by the left, war is every bit as much a part of humanity as the necessity for oxygen.

Life is full of hard decisions. You have to make good ones to have a good life. Accepting war as a necessity is a bad decision. They happen because of a lot of reasons. There are a lot of things that used to be more common in days gone past. Slavery, plauge, lawlesenss etc... Man is an inteligent beast that knows how to survive. We are reaching a place where survival will mean that war in the old sense will be rare. That is if we make good decisions and not lose are head to fear.

Are you or are you not a pacifist?

Posted by: cee at November 20, 2006 01:26 PM

Are you or are you not a christian? Don't try to corner me. I am not a robot for a belief system like you are. Now you put the bible in a safe place in the debate when it's words hit home. Hypocrite? Heal thyself.

Codas,

This stuff you spew is the same stuff the left gave us after WWI....Remember, The War to end ALL WAR? War is just as prevalent today as it was 1000 years ago....there is war currently in Africa, in south Asia, in the Middle East. Plagues spread throughout Africa and India...Man has made so much progress to utopia? Ok, you keep believing that one. Man is no better off today than he was in the past.

If having hope in Christ alone is being a robot, then I am a robot. I have tried to discuss the scriptures with a common frame of reference with you codas and you refuse to try....the reference to the idea of God's grace....unmerited help.....God's love. You only see the scriptures as rules, pleasant stories, beneficial teachings/philosophies, guidance to live a good life. That is religion, that is orthodoxy ONLY. The bible is so much more than those things. It is about grace.....God's grace. Period. You do not see that so discussing the scriptures with you is futile.

War is a reality of sin....war between the unsaved souls of the world is consistent with the teachings of Christ and the rest of the bible. It is a reality of the fallen world like slavery (still here and flourishing), disease (same), lawlessness (did you read your local paper this morning), and all sin. Don't blame God for the mess man has brought on himself for not accepting the grace made available since the beginning of time.

CHENEY SAYS DEMOCRATS WILL NOT DERAIL IMMINENT ATTACK ON IRAN

-- Vows to Sidestep Congress and Voters, Just Like The Constitution --

WASHINGTON -- Despite the allegations of several high ranking intelligence officers that recent neo-conservative claims of a uranium transaction from Congo to Iran are "total bullshit", Vice President Dick Cheney remains adamant that the recent midterm elections and subsequent change in congressional leadership will not deter the administration from ginning up another ill-advised war of choice using falsified intelligence. Said the Vice President, "As much as our new majority opponents in the House and Senate may disagree, we still live in a representative republic, which means the President and I intend to heed the American voters and pursue the policies granted to us by way of electoral mandate from the 2000 and 2004 Presidential elections."

Check out the article on little Brian from TVNewser in today's New York Times. Seems Brian was MSNBC's special guest at the White House correspondents dinner this year. Right around the time that Little Brian began to kiss MSNBC's ass on a daily basis.

I gotta quick question

Why is Rangel propsing to reinstate the draft and not proposing mandatory service?

It is my understanding that the draft is only used if we need more people than those that have volunteered for service. Madatory would mean everyone HAS to go, thus emphasizing Rangel's point of proposing the draft even more (make sure that those who support the war have family and friends serving and thus feel the bite of conflict even more). Either way, there is no way that either law would pass in this country at this point in time.

This isn't about the military. It's about racism, at least according to Rangel. He feels that the burden of military service is being put upon the economically disadvantaged and minorities. He believes that if more affluent whites were IN the military, there would have been a larger outcry over going to war with Iraq. It's not about him wanting to boost our troop levels or assist our armed forces, it's all about him playing the racism card. I can't imagine the draft being popular with ANY group and it will do more in the end to harm Democrats, but hey, let them proceed with this "brilliant" idea.

"I can't imagine the draft being popular with ANY group and it will do more in the end to harm Democrats, but hey, let them proceed with this "brilliant" idea."

How do you reach that conclusion? I mean, there have been attempts in the past to revive the draft. It gets attention for a couple of days, then the hysteria dies down once people realize that it has NO chance of passing (especially in the current political climate).

Is Rangel playing politics with fear?? Rangel wants Americans to be fearful that they will be sent to Iraq, even though he knows that won't happen. Rangel needs a special comment on how he is playing politics with Americans fears. I just remembered, only actions that Bush takes are bad.

If Rangel is playing games with regards to reinstating mandatory service, then it goes along with the left's use of foreign policy crisis as a political issue. Again, this is cynical and manipulative.

It is interesting that the left always accuses conservatives of being manipulated....especially us "gullable evangelicals." Well, lets see where this little issue goes....I say bring it to a vote...get serious about it and call the dem's bluff.

I consider it very important that we have a longterm plan in defending our country and our allies from radical islam. Terrorism continues in Iraq and the left just wants to walk away, so I do not understand these contradictory policies.

If conscription needs to be a part of that longterm plan, then there should be honest debate about it.

"If conscription needs to be a part of that longterm plan, then there should be honest debate about it."

But to many politicians, the draft (like Social Security) is the "Political Third Rail" - touch it and you're dead.

If you can find a politician who's on their way out in '08 or has zero chance of getting re-elected, then we'll have honest debate.

And Speaker Pelosi's staff has said that Rangel's proposal won't even get on the schedule.

Anon....Too bad, can we say, "chicken."

That is religion, that is orthodoxy ONLY. The bible is so much more than those things. It is about grace.....God's grace. Period. You do not see that so discussing the scriptures with you is futile.

Again, it is your view of religion only. Mine is not valid in your eyes. And you wonder why I dispute you. It is because I see in your words a sureness of being right. Faith is a hope. A hope is never sure. I doubt. I struggle. I am not convinsed that my way is the only right way. If you think of yourself as so wise to believe that you can judge my religion as false, feel free. Your war is wrong. We tortured and we lied. We lost credibility. You are part of a dwindling minority that still views this war the way you do. We could have transformed Afgahnistan with all that money and might but we lost our way. YOU bring up all kinds of history to try to prove your points. I don't ever want to put doubt in your mind about your faith cee, just the Iraqi war. It was and is a failure, because the troops were never trained to do what they are being asked to do. They did there part long ago. Our government failed them. The story of the Iraq war will be told, and it will be by the people that fought it. It will not be a story you will like hearing.

codas,

The simple fact that your support of some war verses other war follows the same line of reasoning as any other secular view...a positive outcome...If you are against deadly force in Iraq but support it in Afghanistan I cannot understand how you can justify you position other than just following popular opinion.

If the challenge in Iraq is not met...it will not be because there were lies about going in (not true, anyway) and not because there wasn't training (we have a very well trained and ready force). It would be because the enemy continues to fight, kill and terrorize and you along with many feel it is no longer worth the sacrifice to achieve victory. Period. Vietnam can be spun in anyway you want, but we were defeated by a militarily inferior enemy (like Iraq). Why? Because poor political decisions ruled. Now either Iraq follows Vietnam's course to defeat or it doesn't. You are convinced it already has. I still have a small hope someone will try to achieve honor both for the military and the civilian population in Iraq. It is becoming less likely with the political reality domestically. That will be seen over the next few months and I am NOT sure what will happen. I DO know what the right thing is that should happen, but it may not happen now because of a declining will to overcome the enemy. Add you know what, if Iraq falls, I will be less convinced Afghanistan and Pakistan will continue to be able to continue without falling into the militant islam camp.

Now about being sure....knowing one is right....

It's funny how you say one cannot be sure they are right about "religion," but they can be sure they are right about other things like, "Your war is wrong." Your words, codas....it sounds like you are sure about that issue. How can this be when you include in the very same post, "It is because I see in your words a sureness of being right. Faith is a hope. A hope is never sure. I doubt. I struggle. I am not convinsed that my way is the only right way."? HOPE IS NEVER SURE?

You got it wrong, codas...."Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for." Read the passage in Hebrews that precedes this wise saying, codas, and see that these people acted KNOWING they were following God's way...NOT "THEIR WAY" as you call it..."I am not convinsed that my way is the only right way."

You may have hope, codas. But if you have doubts, it is not faith.

Yahweh is a god of love. His love is expressed soley through His grace. THE LORD is not santa with a good and bad list and THE LORD is not a kind old man sitting in the sky granting wishes and administering punishment. Yahweh is a perfect and holy god who loves mankind and desires a personal relationship....like those relationships He had with those people mentioned in Hebrews 10. That is the truth. That is my faith. It is consistent with every piece of scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

You may have hope, codas. But if you have doubts, it is not faith.

Posted by: cee at November 21, 2006 12:22 AM

BULLSHIT!

based on?

"If the challenge in Iraq is not met...it will not be because there were lies about going in (not true, anyway)."

First of all, it is utterly laughable to claim that there were no lies going in. And second, the lies going in are precisely why the "challenge in Iraq will not be met" (just a coy way of saying "lose").

After a while, the American people know bullshit when they hear it, you can fool some of the people some of the time ... and so forth. And the bullshit going in, and coming out, of Iraq reached critical mass quite a while ago, and the American public has wisely walked away from this trumped-up, incompetently-waged war. Same as in Vietnam. And if the Vietnam/Iraq wars had been fought honestly/earnestly from the start, the American resolve would not have so wisely withered. If you do it right and tell the public the truth, you get all the resolve you need. If not, the bums get voted out and the troops get pulled out. So the lies which you laughable claim to be non-existent, are in fact exactly what doomed this foolhardy fiasco from the very start.

P.S. You always try so hard to sound smart when you post, cee. Way too hard. And since you're not that bright, it really comes off poorly. You always remind me of Agent Starling ... "You know what you look like to me, with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a rube. A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste. Good nutrition has given you some length of bone, but you're not more than one generation from poor white trash, are you, Agent Starling? And that accent you've tried so desperately to shed? Pure West Virginia. What's your father, dear? Is he a coal miner? Does he stink of the lamb? You know how quickly the boys found you... all those tedious sticky fumblings in the back seats of cars ... while you could only dream of getting out ... getting anywhere ... getting all the way to the FBI."

Yeah, Anon...and that film reference doesn't shout, "Listen everyone! What I have to say is so wise...I know your soul!" Is Dr. Lecter your intellectual nonpareil, anon?

Your opinion simply does not matter to me. Critiquing posts are the last refuge of an imbecile...oopsie, I just called myself an imbecile....aw man!

Is this post closer to your Chianti tastes?

BTW, I am not a cross-dresser, or a woman for that matter. I would have prefered you use a Simpson character......Comic Book Guy.

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