MSNBC ran an interview about how the timing of the verdict ties in with GOP election efforts. You knew it had to happen.

Yeah,, with all that great news... the grim reaper is going to lop off the head of Rick Sanitarium on Tuesday along with a bunch of repubs.I guess the public does not agree with the rosy portrait you have attempted to paint.

If PA lops the head of Rick Santorum, they'll replace him with another social conservative, Bob Casey.

Yeah but Casey will not trumpet 15 year old empty shells as WMD's... and Casey will not refer to homosexuals on a par with man on dog, and we will have one fewer jesus freak.

If it had not been left up to a rat I doubt we would have ever found Hussein, or perhaps like OBL maybe we would have just quit looking for him ?

And on a positive note Casey will cure MJ Fox of Parkinson's, buy a dog for Mother Sheehan to replace her son and get Christopher Reeve walking again, or really more like a shuffle with one leg dragging behind.

Democrats: We Fix What God Doesn't Have Time For

Bad news for those who think Casey is not a conservative Christian.

Getting Casey to show up for work will be the biggest obstacle.

Mr. Cox:

Oil prices: Lets see what happens AFTER the elections. It's not like the oil company execs don't have an agenda, or anything like that.

Saddam verdict: The timing just doesn't pass the smell test.

Taxes low: Yea, taxes for the rich are low....at the expense of the decifits and the national debt. This is not much of a
help for most middle class Americans.

Stock market high: Great if you are a wealthy invester, kind of ho-hum for most Americans.

Full employment: Yea, there are lots of landscaping and Pizza Hut type jobs out there. Doesn't help much if you have middle class manufacturing background.

Yea, your right Robert....everythings just PEACHY!

Stock market high: Great if you are a wealthy invester, kind of ho-hum for most Americans.

Full employment: Yea, there are lots of landscaping and Pizza Hut type jobs out there. Doesn't help much if you have middle class manufacturing background.

Yea, your right Robert....everythings just PEACHY!

* Posted by: Mike at November 5, 2006 12:40 PM

You actually think that the Government is responsible for your happiness and financial situation?

This is why I vote Republican...I just can't wrap my brain around the Liberal concept of "It's your fault I'm not happy"...

If you're not rich, a wealthy investor, or have a full-time fulfilling job...it's not the Government's fault...it's your fault.

Don't blame those who are and don't blame those who have nothing to do with you.

Saddam verdict: The timing just doesn't pass the smell test.
Posted by: Mike at November 5, 2006 12:40 PM

That's because it doesn't. The trial ended in, what, June? Even so, the original verdict wasn't supposed to come out until mid-Oct (I guess there's nothing about a 'speedy' verdict in Iraq). But then it was delayed, supposedly due to potential violence. Yet you don't really hear about that:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,227574,00.html
Instead, you just hear about the WH denial that there was 'scheming'.
I watched MSNBC earlier and saw nothing at all about the 'timing', certainly not a segment on it. Even their web-site headline story has nothing, AFAICT, about the timing.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15567363/
nor does CNN's top story:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/05/dujail.saddam/index.html

Everybody knows the bastard needs to die (boiling oil would be better, hanging's too quick) and they knew the verdict had been delayed but are they really questioning it or reporting about it? No, not really. Yep, that wonderful 'liberal' media!

Truth:

I've come to expect Republican's to defend their policies by twisting the words of the opposition. Your post is no exception. Did I say anywhere in that post that "I actually think the government is responsible for my happiness of financial situation"? No, I said nothing of the kind, and you know it. You don't even know what state of my "happiness or financial situation" is!

Now, I'll tell you some of the things I DO expect my government to do:

(1) - I expect a sound fiscal policy. PAY AS YOU GO! The budget should be balanced...always! (yes I used to be a conservative, before the definition changed).

(2) - As a SMALL businessman, I expect a government that sets law and policy for everyone equally, not like the one we have today that virtually allows big business to write policy for them. Have you heard how big the K street Lobby nest is these days?

(3) - I expect an open government, not a secretive one.

(4) - I expect a government that doesn't actually encourage sending jobs oversea with tax breaks. One that actually makes policy to keep American Businesses in America.

(5) - I expect a government that sets a tax policy based on reality instead of a wealthy constituancy. To not create a tax policy that further favors those who have already benefitted far more than most from the bounty of this country, but leaves the average Joe pretty much unaffected. One that actually pays the bills.

(6) - Yes "truth", I want a government that cares about ALL of it's people, not just the influential few!

(7) - I want a government that respects things like the Constitution and the Geneva Convention, and doesn't attempt to modify them for their perceived benefit.

(8) - How about a Government that doesn't start wars in far away lands for dubious reasons with even more dubious justifications.

Now, I'm sure you will find a way to twist all of the above to say something I didn't say.

"If you're not rich, a wealthy investor, or have a full-time fulfilling job... it's your fault."

Wow, is that the new Repug slogan? Please tell that to my family who are all (except for a single brother) ChrisCons. None of them are wealthy, far from it, yet they all vote Rep. Why aren't they wealthy? Well, for my dad, it's because he served his country in the military as a career (yep, you get rich that way). For the rest, it's because they are ChrisCons or simply because they aren't very smart (one bro' scored 800 on the SAT).

Rcox wrote: "Shhhh. Don't tell the mainstream media (and certainly don't tell Keith). What with the stock market at an all-time high, oil prices dropping and gasoline prices way down, with our economy at near full-employment, taxes low and government receipts up those pesky facts just keeping ruining the Lib-Dem-MSM narrative."

Excellent job repeating RNC talking points. I have never liked Ken Mehlman, I think you would do a better job in his position. I give you an A+ for the attempt at a partisan zinger above. But what you have printed is contradicted by facts.

First, in regards to your opening which suggests that the MSM won't cover this, it is only in large boldface print on CNN, WashingtonPost.com, NYTimes.com, and virtually every other web site. It has been covered all morning by MSNBC and CNN television and I suppose it will be right up through the election, just as Republicans planned when they instructed for the verdict to be released two days before the election.

Next, in regards to the rosy scenario your paint of our economy, let's not forget that in the last years under Clinton, the stock market was also at an all time high and conservatives everywhere reminded folks that the stock market does not parallel the economy. The Down Jones industrial average is just a collection of 30 US blue chip stocks designed to give a better picture of the stock market itself, not the entire economy. Republicans reminded us during the Clinton stockmarket boom that the stock market had crashed in 1987 but the economy did not tank. It is nice that the market is up, but what does that mean in terms of the economy as a whole? On place that looks at the economy as a whole is the GAO, which is an arm of the government, not a liberal thinktank. This week, conservative leaning publication Forbes magazine detailed a new report from the GAO that painted a pretty grim scenario for the US economy:

http://www.forbes.com/2006/11/05/walker-gao-concord-face-cx_rs_1103autofacescan04.html

The GAO spoke of a "fiscal cancer" that is developing which can have "catastrophic consequences". The root of the problem is that alleged "fiscal conservatives" that make up our congress and senate don't seem to be able to keep spending under control, and as a result, since Bush became President, we have added almost $3 trillion more to our national debt. There are many other contributors. Republicans make things worse when they irresponsibly try and convince people there is nothing to worry about economically since the Dow is up. You mention gas prices, which have dropped after setting record highs. But they are still higher than gas prices from just three years ago. Using your logic, should gas prices vault up to $5.00 a gallon by spring of 2010, and then they fall to $4.00 by the 2010 midterms, that would be an example of "gasoline prices [dropping] way down." That's fuzzy math, to borrow a phrase from Bush. You have to look at the larger picture, you can't look merely at recent price trends. This is economics 101.
Our unemployment rate, after rising markedly during Bush's first term, has fallen back close to levels we achieved during the Clinton presidency. That is good, but again, look at the big picture. We have managed to get back to numbers close to where we were under Clinton. In regards to low taxes, how do you conclude that? Bush made some income tax cuts, but meanwhile state, local, and property taxes have been on the rise. If a person gets a $300.00 tax rebate from the IRS, but their property tax goes up $600.00, Republicans claim they cut taxes. In actuality, that person's tax load increased a net $300.00. It did not decrease.
So there are some facts for you. I apologize that they contradict the generic rosy assessment you painted of our nation's economy, but facts often get in the way of generalized talking points. And its such a shame that the liberal media won't cover the Saddam verdict. Oh wait...after four days fixated on John Kerry, it seems the verdict and sentence is the number one story today.

Justthretruth wrote: "This is why I vote Republican...I just can't wrap my brain around the Liberal concept of "It's your fault I'm not happy...If you're not rich, a wealthy investor, or have a full-time fulfilling job...it's not the Government's fault...it's your fault. Don't blame those who are and don't blame those who have nothing to do with you."

What you seem to forget is that the government does not exist independent of us, the people. They exist only because of us, and they operate with our money, taxpayer money. Therefore all of us have a say on how this money is spent. And it pisses me off when my parents, both who have medical conditions, have high tax bills and finally had to drop one of them from insurance because they could not longer afford it. In the mean time, Halliburton was overpaid millions and millions of dollars by the US army. In actuality, they were overpaid by American citizens like my Mom and Dad, because that is who the money belongs to.

So you would claim its my parents own fault that they are not filthy rich and able to afford insurance. But the funny thing is they could afford insurance if their tax bills had not gone through the roof. They could afford insurance had Republicans not let businesses suddenly cancel promised pension plans. My father worked his whole life under the legal agreement his company would pay him a pension to live off of when he was no longer fit to work. His company broke the contract, and the government, which is employed by tax payers like my father, went to bat for the company, rather than my father the taxpayer. My father is not looking for a handout, he is only looking to get the services he paid for as a taxpayer his whole life, such as social security, which may not be around much longer.

I also visit the VA hospital every few weeks and I hear stories from vets who have similar difficulties paying their medical expenses. It's their fault though, right? If only they had become investment bankers instead of soldiers, they wouldn't have the problems them do.

Say what you will about poorer citizens who pay taxes, but don't give me this garbage that the government is not responsible for its citizens. This goverment operates only because of its citizens and all of the money it spends BELONGS to its citizens. The government has everything to do with the citizenry, and when it takes from the people and does not give back, citizens have a right to speak out and elect different leaders. Remember that.

O'Lielly, Casey probably won't make a man-on-dog comment about homosexuals, but he will vote against any gay rights issues. He's a social conservative and a Christian as is Santorum. They are ideologically identical. The difference is that Casey is the quiet type, and he probably won't make the brash and perhaps offensive statements that Santorum makes. But he will cast the same votes in the Senate. He is not a liberal. He's not even a moderate Dem. So much for your theory about one less Jesus freak.

I'll try it once again...since some of you seemed to have missed the point.

IF...IF...you are not happy with your life and not happy with your financial situation, do not blame the U.S. government. Blame yourself.

If you are not wealthy (by your definition of wealth, whatever that it) and you are happy. That is great. If not...don't blame others.

While government policies do impact us all, it is YOU and not the government that has the most impact on your happiness.

No one missed your point JustTheTruth. You evidently think the government can take take take from the taxpayer and does not have a reponsibility to work for the taxpayer. My dad doesn't blame the government because he isn't filthy rich, but he is upset that he has had to drop his health insurance because he no longer has a pension to pay for it, and the government, who has had no problem taking his money from him over the years, allowed his business to strip their pension plan so they could be more profitable. The government these days operates "by it's donors and for its donors" not "by the people and for the people which is how it should be. And I am sick and tired of hearing Republicans tell me the government owes the people nothing and that if their pensions get cut, that's their fault for being so dumb to think a business should have to fulfill its legal obligation. The government should be working for the taxpayerss.

There are plenty of jobs out there, if you do not get your butt out of the door and blame the governemnt there is no job out there, it is your own fault, your responsibility. I said it many times, government is our last source to get help.

MSNBC announced that Chris Matthews and Keith are going to anchor the coverage on Tueaday. I don't know how Keith can pair with Chris who knows politics from inside out, and it is a kind of like Hardball style, Keith can't handle those guests and annlysts if they don't agree with him or they are not as smart as him. I think it is a very bad choice.

I have to switch to another channel and stop watching MSNBC election coverage. They are telling us whom you should vote for. No, thank you.

MSNBC ran an interview about how the timing of the verdict ties in with GOP election efforts. You knew it had to happen.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 5, 2006 11:12 AM

Wow. What's the line in Vegas on whether Odormann, David Shuster and Dana Milbank will run with that latest kook fringe conspiracy theory on Monday's Meltdown?

If it were on eBay, Olby would bid on it.

Oh, and O'Lielly, Casey said he would vote against embryonic stem cell research. So you're wrong on another point. If Casey wins, you ultra-left libs will welcome him with open arms, won't you? LOL.

"Wow. What's the line in Vegas on whether Odormann, David Shuster and Dana Milbank will run with that latest kook fringe conspiracy theory on Monday's Meltdown?"

Lol, this comes days after conservatives everywhere were bitching and moaning about the timing of the new story about the Bush Administration giving free nuclear secrets to terrorists online. I guess it is only proper to question the timing of news that hurts Republicans.

I could tolerate the anti-war former Tip O'Neil staffer Chris Matthews, and I love former Mario Cuomo staffer and NBC news chief Tim Russert, but it's incredible to me that they'd use Air Americaesque Keith Olbermann as an "anchor" for the election coverage rather than his being one of the "commenters" or "analysts". Even see Joe Scarborough or Tucker Carlson as "anchor" of election coverage?

This, along with CNN airing the anti-Republican news series "Broken Government" a week before the election (but they're all for limiting paid political ads weeks before an election...)has just totally put to bed all the complaints about political bias when it comes to Fox News.

The Faux News stuff is ovvahhh...libs.

Posted by: Tom at November 5, 2006 03:28 PM

Posted by: Sandy at November 5, 2006 03:40 PM

And don't forget Sandy, when Foley resigned and the story broke, RWers were blaming (and still blame) libs for the timing of the events, ignoring the fact that Foley was outed by a Repug.
No, the Bushies wanted this held off and the Iraqis were all too happy to comply, especially since it is our boys who guard them.

Olberman on Sadaam's death penalty. What his take must be...

This is a Rumsfeld/Bush conspiracy. Sadaam deserves some "punishment" but not the death penalty. Afterall, those that were killed were done so on the US watch, with our tacit approval. How many peoiple has Bush killed afterall? Listen to this sicko on Monday. Sadaam is Olberman's type of dictator. He is well groomed. He bangs the help. He invokes God every now and them. He denies everything. Sounds just like Keithy boy.

Olberman on Sadaam's death penalty. What his take must be...

This is a Rumsfeld/Bush conspiracy. Sadaam deserves some "punishment" but not the death penalty. Afterall, those that were killed were done so on the US watch, with our tacit approval. How many peoiple has Bush killed afterall? Listen to this sicko on Monday. Sadaam is Olberman's type of dictator. He is well groomed. He bangs the help. He invokes God every now and them. He denies everything. Sounds just like Keithy boy.

Radmod,

That is NOT the progression of how the Foley charges came to be picked up by ABC News.

But this is a fine example for what passes for logical argument in Blue Blog circles... an opponent says such-and-such, therefore when it comes to a totally unrelated scenario involving the entire machinery of a judicial system in another country, it's logical and relevant to charge that it has abetted the Bush Administration without a shred of evidence.

Will Citizen Keith by sympathetic to Sadaam? Hard to think that way. He's not that stipid.

President of Iraq punched Bush in the nose a week ago bt telling the world he was not America's lapdog. Now, the lefties actually think Iraq timed the verdict to help the Bush administration? Surely, you jest.

President of Iraq punched Bush in the nose a week ago bt telling the world he was not America's lapdog. Now, the lefties actually think Iraq timed the verdict to help the Bush administration? Surely, you jest.

He cracked jokes when Saddam's sons were killed and demonstrated a spider hole like the one Saddam hid in for those many months. Let's see how much he's changed his patriotic tune since then. My guess is that we won't recognize the melody.

> Casey will not refer to homosexuals on a par with man on dog,

You know, Keith Overbite has been spreading this story for so long, the OlberLoons are actually starting to believe it. Is it true, or another Olbermann lie. I'd like to see someone provide a direct wuote where he says homosexuals are "on a par with man on dog".

Radmod, anytime conservatives do anything illegal or unethical, what they did is not important, the real story is that Democrats had the nerve to tell people about it because this influences voters. Democrats just want to use the illegal and unethical acts of Republicans to influence the elections, and its just not fair.

What you libs don't seem to get is that most of us don't expect much from Government, just stay out of the way and leave me alone. You seem to think that all those on the right are evangelical nosy neighbors who want to make sure you are living a moral life. Those people are nutjobs just like those the left who want to tell people how to eat, drink, smoke, yada yada yada. If your too stupid to think that the government will save you from an impending hurricane, or from poverty, or sickness, or you just want some crutch to lean on, then we'll just chalk you up to Natural Selection.

I know its hard for you to get this through your dumbass heads but the tax cuts actually caused revenues to rise and the burden also rose in the amount contributed by the top 10% of wage earners to that revenue. If the tax cuts were for the rich, why do the rich pay a greater percentage of total revenue than they did before? The tax cuts were aimed most specifically at small business owners and sure to the investor class (which is over 100 million now) but that is exactly what has spurred growth. This was badly needed after the inherited recession Bush received from Bubba and the rampant corporate fraud that was neglected under Bubba's DOJ which lead to the stock market's plunge and subsequent loss of jobs.

It's simple. The more money you let the people keep, the more they spend, the more transactions the government can tax.

Don't blame Bush for your high property taxes, that is a state issue and is one rampant with fraud done by liberal pressure to influence appraisers to value property high so that they can collect more money in taxes.

Quit bitching. Get off your ass and better yourself by learning a new trade or more skills so you can better market yourself.

His exact words were "In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be."

Good point, Johnny.

"If you're not rich, a wealthy investor, or have a full-time fulfilling job... it's your fault."

Wow, is that the new Repug slogan?
Posted by: radmod at November 5, 2006 02:02 PM

That has always been the way they see it. Some of these people are the people that jump off of buildings when things don't go right for them. They have no idea how to deal with tought times. They think tough times makes you a loser. Very very sad people when you take away their money.

Player, what you tirade concludes then is that you don't care if you have to pay high taxes, that you don't expect anything from government. That's says a lot about you that you do not care if you are being suckered by your government or not. In business, if I give my money to someone to provide services, and those services are not adequately provided, I get rid of them and find someone else. That is what Democrats want to do with the GOP in congress, find other people that will be responsible with taxpayer money. Most people do not want to pay high taxes if the government is not going to put the tax money to good use. Most people do not expect the government to be a crutch, but they do expect that as taxpayers the government will uphold their end of the bargain- that when they are wronged by corporations such as when pensions are wiped out, the government will not go to bat for their corporate donors like they have time and time again. I am amazed that you think this is all okay and to be expected.

In regards to your statment "Quit bitching. Get off your ass and better yourself by learning a new trade or more skills so you can better market yourself." that's a pretty lousy thing to say to someone who spent their whole life in the mililtary to protect your freedom to say to such moronic things. Yeah, what a crippled jackass, why didn't he become an investment banker instead- why doesn't he get a real job now, even though he is disabled. Part of the reason is that many jobs don't pay a livable wage. My father, for example, works 50 hours a week even though he has a medical condition. He is past the age of retirement to get a high paying job anywhere. All of the retirement funds he saved over the years were exhausted by my mothers medical condition after she was dropped from her health insurance. Four years later, after expensive legal battles with the insurance companies which are supported by the government, they may have a chance at getting some of that money back, we hope. I pray you or no one in your family ever has a serious medical condition and that your insurance company doesn't suddenly drop you from their rolls- you'll find out quickly that all that money you saved doesn't go very far when it comes to medical bills. I pray it doesn't happen to you, but is that what it would take to knock you off your pedestal?

Employees want to change the conditions they face but in the interests of their corporate donors, the government has gone to work against the workers, prohibiting a livable wage increase, and fighting unionizing every way they can. Are you really surprised that workers want to fight back?

You may be complacent to sit there and pay taxes to the government and allow your fellow citizens to take it left and right. I say if our government is not going to be for and by the people, let's get these schmucks out of there and get new blood in DC. I am not asking for government to provide handhouts, but I am demanding they stop fighting against the citizenry.

In regards to your statement that high property taxes are all liberals faults, you must have forgotten that Republicans hold a majority of governorships in the USA, quite a signifant one, and they also have a majority in state legislatures as well. But who cares about high taxes??? I don't care if I have to give all my money to the government, I will just work harder to make more money so I can be a good patriotic American. Sheesh...what a joke.

Shhhh. Don't tell the mainstream media (and certainly don't tell Keith). What with the stock market at an all-time high, oil prices dropping and gasoline prices way down, with our economy at near full-employment, taxes low and government receipts up those pesky facts just keeping ruining the Lib-Dem-MSM narrative.

Can you say MANIPULATED. Can you say that by the years end gasoline will be over $4.00 again. Stock market all time high. Hello 30 stocks in Dow Jones. If you have any REAL money you will know that we are still down 28% in real losses since 2001. Government receipts are up? What are those in face of $3 Trillion in debt and $2 billion a week to Haliburton, Cheney and Bush in Iraq. Taxes low? How much more expendable dollars do you have in your bank account since he took over? When we win we will not raise taxes we will simply put them back so that we can try to balance the budget in 20 years because he pissed it away in six years. Also, wouldn't it be nice if the rich paid some more taxes. Think someone who makes a million dollars a year would object or care if we asked for say $20,000 a year more in taxes. These 1% make up 21% of the gross dollars we collect. These are your supporters not ours.

Oh and say hello to hypocrite number 21 this month. The anti gay, anti abortion anti stem cell Mr. Haggard, who buys $300 worth of meth and throws it out and gets massages every week at a local hotel in the city where he lives from a male prositute. First he said, I don't know him, then he said I know him but never bought anything, then he said he bought once and didn't use and never had sex. Then his own peers met for one hour and dismissed him from his multi million dollar job. Why not work to get him to give back ALL every penny he has taken away from the evangelicals who believed his crap. Billions of dollars. LIes and more lies..

Sweetie.. You are some piece of work. May god strike your family and you in particular with an incurable disease which can only be saved by stem cell research. I would like to see you make fun of us when that happens to you. God watches everyone especially those that speak evil.

There are ways and there are ways of saying something. But your prose shows you are an ignoramus.

Oh and this is surely not the truth..GOP starting to steal votes before election. Thanks Mr. Chavez.

The need for these vigils is becoming more urgent with each passing hour, as media reports pour in documenting all kinds of incompetence and fraud

a yellow button on the back of the Sequoia voting machine used in 16 state and Washington, D.C. that lets voters cast as many votes as they want

Venezuelan nationals at polling places "fixing" Sequoia machines (Chicago)
vote-flipping on touch screens (Florida, South Carolina, Texas)
voting machines not adjusted for daylight savings time that will shut down an hour before voting ends (Cleveland)
candidates' names chopped short (Virginia, Texas)
electronic voting cards disappearing (Memphis)
Republicans paying lawyers to harass voters without photo ID's (Pennsylvania)

Speaking of ignoramuses (or ignorami), Moveon.org just called to beg for a Democratic vote in my state's Congressional race. LOLOLOLOL.

so sad , O'lielly wants to legitimize his gay butt sex and defames a great man like Santorum to do it. Actually O'lielly in your case sex with a dog would be preferable to sex with you. Beastiality is on par(or maybe even above) with homosexual sex- deviance is deviance. You frustrated little homos are all in a tif because you can't get married. I always knew that is why you are so mean and juvenile O'lielly- society won't legitimize your deviant sexual fun so you hate those big bad conservatives. You are one twisted little homo-puppy O'lielly.

First of all property taxes are done at the county level. Think of all the places in the country where property values are way way out of control. San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Boston etc... . What do they all have in common? Their city councils are all overwhelmingly liberal. Yes I know the mayor of NYC is Bloomberg. I said city council.

I never said I wanted higher taxes. I specifically said I want to be left alone. That means don't tax me. The government should be what it was initially intended to be. Protect our sovereignty as a nation and as individuals and keep the peace. It should never have been in the pension, healthcare, or morality business.

The government absolutley should NOT bail out corporations for bad pension practices. Why the hell should someone in Nevada help pay a bail out for Enron's bankrupted pension or when Delta files bankruptcy? Its capitalism ( not in its purest sense) not socialism. Competition is good and breeds better productivity. What hope is there when people think that the government will just take care of their pensions anyway? And another thing, most people don't even have pensions, they actually have to save their own money.

This mindset that the government defends the healthcare providers is ludicrous, otherwise there would be legislation preventing lawsuits. Instead there is rampant frivilous lawsuits forcing doctors to perform C-sections when it is not necessary (for example, thanks John Edwards). You want to know why you can't afford healthcare? You need look any further than ABA and trial attorney lobby.

As far as the wounded military veteran anecdote goes, I would certainly cede the point that a draftee would have ample reason to bitch and moan. But the all volunteer military has no room to bitch if they actually get shot at, that would be ridiculous. What isn't ridiculous is when these men go over to Iraq and their families are evicted from their homes because there isn't enough money, or the army doesn't live up to its end of responsibilities. It follows, that if you work for the government, you certainly have right to raise grievances with your employer.

This entitlement mentality must stop. People must have reasonable expectations. I blame the baby boomers.

You're living in a fool's paradise. Full employment as what? Greeter at WalMart? Counter gal at a gas station? The jobs replacing the steady loss in the manufacturing sector pay much less with no benefits or health care. The ups and downs of the stock market mean nothing to the majority of Americans living from paycheck to paycheck (BTW, ajusted for inflation, the Market is NOT at an aii-time high) Real wages have declined steadily during the Bush presidency. Taxes are low for corporations and the top 1%. The Bush tax deferments (they aren't really "cuts")have resulted (duh!)in a much lower percentage of tax revenuesthan in the past, leading to massive debt. This economy looks good only if you thought Enron looked good. The nation is bankrupt. I feel sorry for whoever gets elected from now on. What a mess they have to clean up. It will take years to clear away the wreck.

You're living in a fool's paradise. Full employment as what? Greeter at WalMart? Counter gal at a gas station? The jobs replacing the steady loss in the manufacturing sector pay much less with no benefits or health care. The ups and downs of the stock market mean nothing to the majority of Americans living from paycheck to paycheck (BTW, ajusted for inflation, the Market is NOT at an aii-time high) Real wages have declined steadily during the Bush presidency. Taxes are low for corporations and the top 1%. The Bush tax deferments (they aren't really "cuts")have resulted (duh!)in a much lower percentage of tax revenuesthan in the past, leading to massive debt. This economy looks good only if you thought Enron looked good. The nation is bankrupt. I feel sorry for whoever gets elected from now on. What a mess they have to clean up. It will take years to clear away the wreck.

Posted by: Mickey Finn at November 5, 2006 06:28 PM

Your talking sense. That don't work here.

Player wrote: "property taxes are done at the county level. Think of all the places in the country where property values are way way out of control. San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Boston etc... . What do they all have in common? Their city councils are all overwhelmingly liberal. "

Local, state, and property taxes have gone up in almost all states. Here in Florida, which has a Republican governor and an overwhelming Republican state legislature, property taxes have gone up markedly. I am a homeowner here in Florida in an area dominated by the GOP, and I know what I am talking about.

"The government absolutley should NOT bail out corporations for bad pension practices."

No one is asking for a bailout (although conservatives never seem to complain when the airline industry needs a bailout due to poor business operating practices- corporate welfare in the country far outpaces individual welfare. that's for sure).

What I am asking for is that when a company and a worker have a legal agreement, the government not step in to protect the corporations from being sued and held accountable. The GOP has gone to lengths to protect their donors from facing lawsuits. The conservative activist judges in this country have continually ruled that if a company doesn't have enough profit, it cannot be legally held accountable to pay its pension obligations. The bankruptcy laws in this country are designed to hurt individuals and protect big companies. I am not asking for the government to bail out the pension plan which was rooted from my father. But I will not accept the government going to bat for the big company against my father, the taxpayer. That is unacceptable, and this is an epidemic. Time and time again the government goes to bat for its donors, whether it be through new laws shielding companies from lawsuits and liabilities, or the appointment of activist judges to help interpret existing laws in the favors of corporations.

I am not saying its all Bush's fault. Our judiciary system is muddled, and the flawed judges stem from administrations way before Bush. Lord knows that both parties are in the pockets of the corporations. I am hoping that someday enough Americans will wake up and elect good leaders rather than always voting the party line. But at the end of the day, we have had 12 straight years of GOP leadership and things are only breaking down further. We need a new direction.

You wrote "This entitlement mentality must stop". What exactly does that mean? I don't want people to be entitled to things they do not work or pay for, or that they do not deserve. I don't think a person should be tax exempt his whole life and then expect the government to fund his retirement. But when a person pays taxes, income taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes, all of the taxes one has to pay, that taxpayer has a right to expect that his government is going to work for him, for the citizenry, and as such that taxpayer is "entitled" to certain things.

What? How about political officials who are not corrupt and don't commit crimes? I think that is an entitlement of a taxpayer. How about politicians who do what they teach children to do in elementary school- balance a checkbook? I think that is an entitlement of a taxpayer. How about politicians who make informed decisions and detailed plans for our foreign policy, and national security? That also is an entitlement of a taxpayer.

I realize that taxpayers disagree. You may think the government is doing a great job in all of these areas already, and thus you speak out and also speak with your vote. Myself and many others disagree- we do not feel our government is giving the taxpayer what they are entitled to. And our options? To also speak out and speak with our votes as well, which we will do.

Make no mistake- handouts are not the same as entitlements. Taxpayers are entitled to things, and until the government does an ample job at providing them, or releasing us from the bulk of our tax obligation, don't be surprised to see a demand for change by the people.

Mickey,

You can blame globalization for the lack of manufacturing jobs. That's what happens when you move from a manufacturing base to a service based economy. It will never change. We will never move to a protectionist position so tell your kids that their legacy position through the union is gone. They will actually have to learn something other than how to bolt a bumper onto a frame. Just like people had to learn how to do other things rather than panning for gold or building a railroad. Whaaaa Whaaaa Whaaaaa learning stuff sux.

Someone wrote "MSNBC ran an interview about how the timing of the verdict ties in with GOP election efforts. You knew it had to happen."

How about this?

Chris Matthews was on Weekend Today this morning and said that not only was the Saddam verdict not good for Repbublicans but that it was bad for them and good for Dems because it reminds people of Iraq and Iraq is now a four-letter word for voters (of course, it was ALWAYS a four-letter word but this IS Chris Matthews so please play along at home). He then went on to say something to the effect that it looked to him like the GOP was going to be "wiped out" in the Northeast - that there would be NO Republican party in the that part of the country.

Quite a leap huh? He was asked about Saddam getting the death penalty and used that to claim it was the GOP that was getting the death penalty. Sounds fair and balanced to me!

Posted by: Robert Cox at November 5, 2006 07:16 PM

Actually Bobby, if you have heard some of the Reps out there today, they are claiming that this is bad news for the Rep party. I, personally, don't believe they believe that, but who knows.

> "That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be."

Wait a minute. Santorusm is saying homosexuality is NOT man on dog? How does that turn into he's saying it's "on a par" with man on dog, when he's specifically saying that it's NOT on a par?

This whole "man on dog" thing is starting to smell very much like another Olbermann Lie.

I respect a Drug Dealer more than a whiney Leftists expecting the government to take care of them.

Posted by: Cecelia at November 5, 2006 04:09 PM

Cecelia, if you had bothered to see what I was responding to it was to Tom's insistence that the timing of the verdict was the "latest kook fringe conspiracy theory" from the left and Sandy's pointing out that the Reps considered the online stupidity as a Dem plot. I was pointing out another "kook fringe conspiracy theory" but one by the Reps. If you have a problem with that, talk to Tom about making such assinine statements.

BTW, the chronology is exactly as I said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001379.html

I respect a Drug Dealer more than a whiney Leftists expecting the government to take care of them.

I haven't read many of these posts so I apologize if I'm repeating someone but is it safe to assume Olby will question the timing of this with the elections so close?

You only cited part of the quote Johnny. When you read the whole quote, to me it is pretty apparent he is putting it on par, but I can't be sure. I never heard it myself in its full context, I just found it on a web site in request of someone here who asked for the whole quote.

"In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be."

If the word "it" in the final sentence refers to marriage, then he is obviously saying homosexuality is lumped in with the other two. If the "it" refers to homosexuality, then he is saying it is not lumped in with the other two.

In my option the way the sentence reads, when he says "it" in the final sentence he is referring to marriage, because he is specifically attempting to point out that to him, marriage is between a man and a woman, and nobody or nothing else and he cites man on dog and man on child of other examples of what marriage is not. Did Santorum ever further explain? Although I guess, as the MSM reporting of the John Kerry debacle showed us this week, its not the intent behind the words that matter, but how the opposition party interprets them. So if Democrats think he was putting it on par, then it must be so, and conservatives can't argue with that and still criticize Kerry for his words at the same time.

Posted by: Sandy at November 5, 2006 08:27 PM

I think the key is the next line: "It is one thing." What is 'it'? How is 'it' one thing? It is likely that 'it' refers to marriage as in marriage is only one thing, not 'homosexuality', "man on dog", or 'whatever' according to Santorum. Likewise the next line refers to 'that' as 'the one thing' not homosexuality.
So all in all his usage of 'it' and 'that' seems to refer to 'marriage' not homosexuality.

Rd Wolf:

You people still don't get it, do you?

Do you consider yourself a Conservative? Well, guess what....you DON'T presently have a Conservative President, or a Conservative Congress.

There was never anything "Conservative" about invading a Country that didn't attack or even threaten us. What is "Conservative" about record deficits and debt? What about the record amounts or pork that passed this Republican Congress and President?

I guess I'm a "lefty" these days but the LAST thing in the world I expect is to be rescued by the Government. I'll just settle for leadership that isn't corrupt, incompetant, and hypocritical.

That means we need a change!

> If the word "it" in the final sentence refers to marriage...

There's no reason in the world to assume that it does. The it comes right after the word "homosexuality". Claiming that it refers back to a previous sentence is a stretch, and IMHO a less likely one than the obvious reading of his intent.

But even if we say arguendo that his statement is ambiguous, that still makes Krazy Keith a propagandist for siezing on a dubious interpretation and turning it into a pseudo-factual talking point. It's spin and propaganda at least, and at worst an Olbermann lie.

Mike,
I'm not a conseravtive. I'm a Nationalist.

Johnny wrote "There's no reason in the world to assume that it does."

Well if you read the whole sentence it is pretty obvious. Before I said I was not 100% sure, but radmod's post above pretty much closes this case. The following sentence, which was not included on the web site where I got the quote, is "It is one thing."

So the whole quote in context is "In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be. It's one thing."

So he is obviously talking about marriage. He is saying it is one thing and nothing else, it is not man on man, man on dog or whatever. Thanks radmod, I should have gotten the quote in greater context.

And remember Johnny, as the John Kerry situation this week showed us, what a person means by something matters none- it is only how the opposition interprets it that matters :)

> So he is obviously talking about marriage.

Yeah, if you leave out the sentence in between!

Whaaaa Whaaaa Whaaaaa learning stuff sux.

Posted by: Player to be named later at November 5, 2006 07:02 PM

No actually learning stuff is good. It is you that sucks you smart ass. One day when you get a pink slip and you find yourself working for half your current salary just remember to shut the hell up and go learn something.

"Yeah, if you leave out the sentence in between!"

What do you mean? I'm saying read the whole sentence in context:

"In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be. It's one thing."

Nothing is left out there. He is clearly talking about marriage as he is attempting to define it. Now if he said

"In every society, the definition of homosexuality has not ever to my knowledge included man on dog or man on child sex. It's one thing."

Then the "it" would obviously apply to homosexuality. But in the actual statement he is defining marriage and is saying it is one thing, and none of those other things.

One other thing you may want to consider Johnny is that a popular RNC talking point to ask gay marriage supporters is "where does it end? Should men be allowed to marry animals?". It doesn't make any sense why, in the middle of a definition of marriage, Santorum would take a quick break to tell people that homosexuality is only one thing and does not encompass bestiality or child molestation. Duh. People know what homosexuality is. It is quite obvious that he was saying marriage is one thing, and he wasn't going to single out homosexuality, that excluded should be any type of activity not between a man and a woman.

Spin it however you want, but unless you plan on bashing the soldiers and other people who claimed to be offended by Kerry's statement, you can't bash Keith or anyone else on this one for interpreting it exactly the way it comes across.

Yeah, I looked up the USA Today interview and read a big chunk of it. And I can see how you read it that way. I hate to admit that Olbermann may be right about something, but at least I can't say that he's necessarily wrong about this.

This site is beginning to be on par with a blue-blog...

my favorite parts are how many of the far left posters said something to the effect that they will never come back here to such a site but show up day after day after day...the other part being how far off the topics the discussions get

"What with the stock market at an all-time high, oil prices dropping and gasoline prices way down, with our economy at near full-employment, taxes low and government receipts up those pesky facts just keeping ruining the Lib-Dem-MSM narrative."

Darn! What a shame there are all those inconvenient facts - like we've been borrowing at a rate of over a BILLION DOLLARS A DAY for the past few years, and now half of that daily billion is going just to pay the interest on our debt. But hey - don't let reality intrude on your celebration!

Connor, I can't speak for others, but I appreciate this site because they let you have a conversation and don't arbitrarily delete your posts if they don't like what you say. I don't visit most left or right wing blogs to post anymore because if I "step out of line" with the theme of the site, all the words I type are simply deleted. And there is no point stick around web sites where everyone always agrees with you unless you like living in an echo chamber.

Sandy...
I am sure Mr Cox will apreciate the thoughts.
I just thought it was wierd that there were a number of people who complain about the existence of the site and what Mr. Cox and Mr. Dollar say (much less some of the posters), that they would stick around, much less proliferate. However, your point is well taken.

Have a nice day!

*************************************************************************
OLBERMANN FAN CLUB ALERT
ONLY ONE MORE PROPAGANDIZING DAY UNTIL ELECTIONS
*************************************************************************

Dear Fans,

Remember, election season is fast approaching. You now have only ONE DAY to distribute propaganda prior to the election. Remember, VOTE EARLY AND VOTE OFTEN, as your fan club membership dictates. The end justifies the means, so use all sources of propaganda willingly and openly. Do not hold back, and do not fear being "outed" for lying. After all, lies exposed AFTER the election mean nothing. Special comment mass e-mailing is key to our victory -- this is not SPAM, since the e-mail will secure victory for the Democrats.

LONG LIVE SADDAM! END THE OCCUPATION NOW! U.S.A out of New Mexico!

I can't believe the "liberals" over at the Army Times that are calling for Rummy's resignation.

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2333360.php

Who publishes the Army Times?

The Department of Defense?

Nope. Gannett.

You know the same people who own the USA TODAY and a raft of liberal newspapers. Either you don't know that or you think the clear-thinkers are dumb enough to fall for the canard that the liberal publishers of the Army Times somehow repesent the military. They don't. But nice try.

Meanwhile, when you liberals are scratching your heads tomorrow night asking "what went wrong" you might want to relect on this fisking of the new New York Times "poll".

http://www.anklebitingpundits.com/content/index.php?p=1061

We've seen this many times before - the MSM creating and flogging poll manufactured to create the appearance of broad support for their...errrr...I mean...the Democrats agenda.

These are the same people who tell you there is not enough flu vaccine, that the Hurricane season is going to be worse than last year, that the Cardinals can't beat the Tigers, that Kerry was winning on election day - and yet people still jump on the "conventional wisdom" and act surprised when they are wrong...again.

I seriously doubt that the Chicken Little antics of the MSM will be borne out. Will the Dem pick up seats? Sure, it is the sixth year of a Republican administration...they ought to. Will the GOP be "wiped out" as Chris Matthews has been opining lately. Doubtful. My predictions are to be published in The Washington Examiner but FYI I am going with the Dems picking up 8 seats in the House and 2 in the Senate. Maybe we should have a predictions thread?

Interesting article by a Democrat who supports Bush on the War on Terror/War in Iraq

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/11/the_only_issue_this_election_d.html

Best I have seen explaining what is actually going on and what could happen with too early an exit.

A predicition thread sounds interesting.
My predictions:
+18 Dems in the House
+5 Dems in the Senate (counting Lieb as Ind/Dem)

I'm surprised at yours, Bobby. Even Mary Matalin has Dems getting at least +10 in the House and +3 in the Senate.

I love it. Predictions from people who believe the people who said chocolate and flowers for our troops. Mission accomplished. The insurgency is in its last throes. I predict there will be a lot of people feeling the "blues" all over their red face.

anon @ 231pm

Didn't you guys predict on election day 2004 that Kerry would win the 2004 Presidentail election?

Hey Cox, if you think the Army Times has Maureen Dowd types writing for them then I think you need to check yourself into a mental institution. I get the Army Times and the only thing they are is PRO-SOLDIER. How long do you think the paper would be around if it was a liberal rag (i.e. The Nation)?

Wake up.

And USA toady is far from a 'liberal' paper.