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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    December 19, 2006
    Claim: "Traitor" Olbermann Should Be Arrested!

    A prominent national broadcaster today described Keith Olbermann as a "traitor" and called for the infamous, deplorable one to be arrested and placed in a detention camp. We have not yet heard from Attorney General Gonzales on this development, but we are confident that he will give it the attention it deserves. A QuickTime video clip follows for your viewing pleasure.


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (582) | | View blog reactions
    user-pic

    582 Comments

    Olbermann sent out an e-mail detailing his plan for salary negotiations and included the audio:

    Olbermann: Okay, here's the plan. We have the far-left loony crowd on our side. Now we hold MSNBC ransom for... 1 MILLION dollars!

    Keith's agent: [clears throat] Sir, strictly speaking, a million dollars will not go very far these days. For instance, NBC Universal makes over 4 billion dollars a year.

    Olbermann: Really? Okay then... we hold MSNBC ransom for 1... hundred... BILLION dollars!

    http://www.jahozafat.com/php/sounds/?id=gog&media=MP3S&type=Movies&movie=Austin_Powers"e=million.txt&file=million.mp3

    Do you really think Keith is a traitor or are you using this clip just for the fun of posting something that has the word Olbermann in there?

    "A prominent national broadcaster" hahahaha. I'm willing to bet 9 out of 10 people don't even know his name, and you refer to him as "a prominent national broadcaster" hahaha. God I used to think you guys just had a little too much free time on your hands, but now I can see you are truly sad and are grasping at straws. Hey, here's a thought, how about sometime you refer to an article or comment that wasn't made on Fox News or in the New York Post? Oh, wait, all the rest of the media coverage about Olbermann is positive, isn't it? I guess you have no choice but to grasp at straws and post the most ridiculous items and imply they are legitimate news. Hey, I'm glad to see you support those who are opposed to free speech and want to lock up anyone who speaks out against the government though, I can really see why your type gets so offended when you're compared to the Nazis..

    "A prominent national broadcaster"

    *laughs* A guy who can't even get his show aired live on stations owned by his producers and often gets shunted to the weekends is "prominent"?

    "We have not yet heard from Attorney General Gonzales on this development, but we are confident that he will give it the attention it deserves."

    *mimes tossing it into the round file*

    Well, that was good for a laugh.

    Man... Mike Gallagher is so polite on his radio program, and what with his recent Barrack Obama supporting and his good-samaratin-esque pleading with those Amish protestors... what happened?!?!?

    Well I trust you anti Olbermann guys are just 'funnin', but if we ever get to the point where folks that speak out are put away....we will have truly become no better than any of our enemies have ever been.

    Come to think of it, this is the very thing that many of us left of center believe is a potentially bigger threat to America than Islamic Extremism ever could be.

    I guess I never really ever watched Keith. I was aghast last night at how fast that boy can spin lies! Send him over to Al Qaeda. They would welcome him with open arms. NBC should fire him, certainly not increase his salary, however perhaps I'll watch him as my new entertainment comic show. What a joke.

    I remember Ketih from the local television station when I lived in L.A. during the 80's. I did not care for him then and was amused to find this website. I think he was the one that insisted on a car to transport him around L.A. because he either never learned to drive or refused to. Big ego for a then-sportscaster

    Joe Sampson wrote:

    "Hey, here's a thought, how about sometime you refer to an article or comment [about Olbermann] that wasn't made on Fox News or in the New York Post?"

    OK, here's one from the November 30, 2004 U.S.C. Annenberg School of Journalism, Online Journalism Review, which, I am fairly sure is insulated from the "right wing biases" of Fox News and the NY Post. This if from a KO interview with Michael Glaser of OJR:

    OJR: How would you describe yourself politically on the liberal-to-conservative spectrum?
    KO: I'm not political. I don't vote. . . I have no more interest in the political outcome of an election than I did in the winner or loser of any ballgame I ever covered.


    http://www.ojr.org/ojr/stories/041130glaser/index.cfm

    Of course,anyone who has tuned in a single second of Meltdown recognizes this for the lie that is and even KO's liberal allies have referred to him as a voice for liberalism.

    In fact, Olbermann has gone on record that he will not tolerate opposing viewpoints on his show. In a recent interview with the San Bernardino County (Ca.) Sun he said:

    "Part of my deal with the network is that I don't have to have debates. . . .Having both sides politically debating a point adds nothing to the political discourse; plus, it makes me queasy."

    Is this sort of cowardice your cup of journalistic tea, Mr. Sampson?

    "I think he was the one that insisted on a car to transport him around L.A. because he either never learned to drive or refused to."

    Keith is unable to drive because of an incident in the 1970's where he struck his head on the upper doorway of a NYC subway car. The injury affected his depth perception at speed (which means that he cannot accurately gauge distances when moving in excess of 10-15 MPH).

    "prominent national broadcaster" Yuh right and this web page is just as "prominent"!

    Anyone that calls for sending political dissenters to a detention camp is a f---ing Nazi as is most of the anti-democracy slime balls at Fox.

    The idea that you would post this clip simply because Mr. Gallagher mentions the magic name of Olbermann, speaks volumes to your mentality, your zealous nature, and your lack of knowledge of what a democracy is made of. Typical result of being a minion of Fox propagandists.

    Secretary Rumsfeld over saw the complete trashing of Iraq and never showed one once of empathy for the lives lost - American or Iraqi. All for conquest of oil and war profiteering for his billionaire boys club who are getting richer by the day as this catastrophe in Iraq continues.

    Every time another American dies in Iraq I think of the anti American numb nuts like Mike Gallagher and the pin heads like you here that would refer to him as "prominent".

    Nothing but delusional adulation. Olbermann is right on the mark, Rumsfeld is just he says - a Nazi! He was one of the architects of the long term plan to grab Iraqi oil and he was in on it from the very beginning. The lies that led this nation to war are now dead bodies of every kind - men, women, children and American GI's. All for what? For weapons of mass destruction? Bull shit and you know it. It was to make billions for a handful of billionaires.

    Still with all your garbage and all your failures to acknowledge the significance of an American policy destroying an entire nation, wounding and killing tens of thousands of GI's, you do serve a good purpose here - you continue to assist (however small) in bringing more listeners to Keith Olbermann, the slayer of the beast that is Fox News. Murdoch is the real Nazi in all this and your clip of Gallagher calling for detaining political dissenters is perfect evidence of that!

    Keep up the good work.

    Anon: "The injury affected his depth perception at speed (which means that he cannot accurately gauge distances when moving in excess of 10-15 MPH)."

    Did the injury also make his skin orange?

    Or his dick permanently limp?

    To Hank:

    No sir, this type of journalism is not my cup of tea. I in fact rarely watch Olbermann. Indeed, upon closer inspection of my original post you will see I said nothing of the sort. Does this change the patheticness (is that a word?) of the proprietors of this blog? My point was that they are grasping at straws by bringing up ridiculous items from Fox News and The New York Post and trumpeting them as if they really "got" Olbermann by insulting him. Incase you haven't noticed, Olbermann doesn't mind. He often brings up the insults directed at him on his OWN show. Yet the Olbermann Watch folks, day after day, post a Fox video clip or quote a NYP article and gloat as if to say "aha! Boy is there egg on Olbermann's face now!", and then ignore it when Olbermann mocks the same clip or article on his own show. My point is: face it, FNC, NYP, and OW are all quite sad in their attempts to bring down Olbermann. If Fox and the Post would stop with the petty insults and this waste of internet space would go away, then Olbermann would look like the pathetic one insulting his enemies on air. But by comparison, he's looking pretty good.

    By the way... as a guy who *is* a conservative (or for you Olbyloons, a neo-con right-winger) and who thinks Olbermann is a complete ass, that clip of Mike Gallagher is ridiculous... Gallagher sounds like a raving lunatic.

    One point Joe. It wasn't Fox News making the goofy statement... it was a goofy Radio commentator on Fox News. Blaming Fox for that is like trying to tell us that CNN is affiliated with the KKK just because they had David Duke on to spew his nonsense.

    Joh E: You have earned the tag of "clear thinker" from me to you. Although Olbermann Watch outgrew this... well... pretend that it is right next to your post :-)

    are you guys joking or are you crazy?

    Hey James... More crazy than someone with a website with a tag that says... "george bush is a lying, murdering, evil, war criminal"?

    "One point Joe. It wasn't Fox News making the goofy statement... it was a goofy Radio commentator on Fox News. Blaming Fox for that is like trying to tell us that CNN is affiliated with the KKK just because they had David Duke on to spew his nonsense."

    Touche, JohnE. I'll admit you got me there. I still stand by my remarks though because the vast majority of the time they apply.

    anonymous john,

    i was asking you about this site, but, if you insist: what part of that statement makes me crazy? do you still doubt he is a liar? do you not see the half a million dead iraqis? do you not see murderers as evil? do you know nothing about war-crimes?

    but, do the people at this site actually take this gallagher person seriously? do you hate keith olbermann so much that you see him as a traitor and wish him to be tortured in guantanamo?

    that seems rather CRAZY to me...unless you are joking about it... that was my question.

    Er, James, in an earlier post I said...

    "By the way... as a guy who *is* a conservative (or for you Olbyloons, a neo-con right-winger) and who thinks Olbermann is a complete ass, that clip of Mike Gallagher is ridiculous... Gallagher sounds like a raving lunatic."

    By the way, in my opinion, this site is great. The KO summaries are very funny (and even the comments can be amusing). I do think the site admins posted that lame video because it mentioned KO (I think it has something to do with the site name "OlbermannWatch"). I'll go out on a limb here and guess that no, they don't think Keith is a traitor that should be tortured in Guantanamo.

    I can see from your website James, why you'd be a real Keith fan and hence, in on Olbyplanet you would not be considered crazy (as far as you know).

    okay, i guess maybe i am on this olbyplanet, because i can't get the damn link to work in any of three different browsers...oh well. i have heard gallagher rant before.

    keith is good, but, i wish he would go further to the left, actually...

    i am glad to see you have some sort of sense of humor about it...first time visitors, linking to this thread, may be taken aback...

    LOL. Dang, to the left of Olbermann... now there's something to ponder.

    Agree with your firt-time visitors comment.

    you have to admit that there is not any one network as vehemently extreme to left as fox is to the right, with malkin, coulter, orally, hume, wallace et al.

    but, i think keith is doing the best he can without being fired--or taken to guantanamo!

    Joe Sampson says:

    "My point is: face it, FNC, NYP, and OW are all quite sad in their attempts to bring down Olbermann."

    Joe, Olbermann is rarely mentioned on Fox-- the last time he was mentioned on Fox that I can recall is when was when Cal Thomas mentioned him several weeks ago for some "Turkey of the Year" Award because Olbermann had attacked Fox FIRST.

    I think Johnny D has documented that Olby has attacked BOR something like 140+ times and it is almost always unprovoked by Fox and, in the aftermath, Fox almost never responds because there is no need to respond to someone as marginal and unimaginative as Olbermann. I don't know where you got the idea that Fox was on some kind of mission to discredit Olbermann (he does this just fine on his own) when in fact it is Olbermann who is constantly yipping about Fox and BOR in particular.

    You also complain about this site supposedly relying upon Fox News and the NY Post to attack Olbermann. The fact of the matter is Joe, this site posts lots of stuff about Olbermann, both pro and con. If you go to the main page and go to the right hand column of that page and scroll down, you will see a "KO In the News" area where all kinds of articles, both fawning and derogatory are present. It has a plethora of Olby info.

    Your premise that Olby rebuts the takedowns we deal to him here on OW is a delusional fantasy. His lies and distortions are called out time after time without response or apology from the Orange Boy. By the way, Joe you apparently had no answer for my examples that I gave to you when you challenged someone to "refer to an article or comment [about Olbermann] that wasn't made on Fox News or in the New York Post?" I did this quite easily too. Do you have any other useless drivel to share?

    Olbermann should be declared an Enemy combatant and shiped off to Guantanomo and have an accident happen to him!

    Will Krazy Keith mention his last place finish in the Monday ratings?
    Bill O beat him like a rented liberal....an orange colored stepson....lol.

    The Tan-man only seems to talk about ratings the few times a month he actually gets any!

    just for the sake of seeing, i just did a lexis check of 'olbermann' on the fox database and there have been nine (9) mentions of his name... 7 on the weekend media show, one on greta, and one on hannity....in the previous two years.

    of course, this doesn't count any 'that one guy on msnbc...' or any other way of referrring to him without using his name....

    a similar search of 'Bill O'Reilly' shows 22 mentions in the NBC database. likewise, this doesn't count the 'bill orally's' and the 'whats-his-name on fox.'

    Mike Gallagher is both grossly ignorant and recklessly irresponsible; although I guess his ignorance can be used as a defense for his recklessness.

    Olbermann is no more a traitor or an abettor of the enemy than the man in the moon.

    To be guilty of treason - which I guess is what Gallagher is thinking - a person must both aid an enemy and also adhere to that enemy (as defined in the Constitution, Art III, Section 3). Aid alone isn't sufficient; one must be a supporter of that adversary.

    In neither instance is Olbermann guilty.

    Gallagher's statement is asburd.

    Duh, I believe Olby was off Monday!

    Has any routinely fourth place (out of five) show in the history of television, ever gotten as much fawning press coverage? The latest abysmal ratings for Odormoronn:

    8PM - P2+ (25-54)
    O'Reilly Factor - 2,338,000 viewers (545,000)
    Paula Zahn Now - 718,000 viewers (218,000)
    CNBC Prime - a scratch with 112,000 viewers (a scratch with 31,000)
    Nancy Grace - 565,000 viewers (209,000)
    Meltdown w/ Odormoronn - 518,000 viewers (174,000)

    i'm new here, but, can you please tell me where olbermann is given 'fawning press coverage'... i watch hardball and most of tucker and part of joe, and THESE guys don't even talk about him, let alone talk about him in a 'fawning' matter...

    besides you guys here, who don't seem to be 'fawning' over him, who does? i mean i like keith, but, i feel rather alone in that feeling, but for a few friends and family...

    he doesn't get coverage, does he?

    i'm new here, but, can you please tell me where olbermann is given 'fawning press coverage'... i watch hardball and most of tucker and part of joe, and THESE guys don't even talk about him, let alone talk about him in a 'fawning' matter...

    besides you guys here, who don't seem to be 'fawning' over him, who does? i mean i like keith, but, i feel rather alone in that feeling, but for a few friends and family...

    he doesn't get coverage, does he? it seems to be mostly criticism from the right when i see him discussed.

    oh, i do think the nation magazine may have mentioned his comments along the way... but, where are you finding this 'fawning'?

    just curious...

    But Olbermann was touting about how he "almost" beat O'Reilly last week. And he failed to note that Bill wasn't on the show, he was in Iraq, you know, risking his life.

    "i'm new here, but, can you please tell me where olbermann is given 'fawning press coverage'..."

    Most of the clear thinking regulars here are not giving Olby "fawning" coverage but he is getting some favorable liberal media coverage, based mostly on exaggerated stats regarding the improvement in his ratings and ignoring his outrageous actions such as firing off the Nazi salute while brandishing an O'Reilly mask and telling an e-mail heckler to "Kill yourself".

    You can find some of these favorable articles linked at a section of this site on the main page. Go to the right side of the page and look for a heading "Delicious Keith Olbermann" and you will find some favorable Olbermann coverage.

    I would loved to see Ketih turned loose in Camp GITMO. He would be able to do squats on a fire hydraunt after his terrorist buddies redesigned his a--hole for him.

    Just a guess but it's because the media is overwhelmingly liberal and they have a great desire for Olbermann to succeed because he echos their beliefs.

    Ohboy,
    Olbermann is an open supporter of Islamo-Fascists.
    He gets happy with every American death.

    Red Wolf,

    I like your enthusiasm but if you keep that up somebody's going to start a redwolfwatch.com!!!

    There are some pretty smart conservative people posting on this site, and then on the other end of the scale, there are some Neanderthals like Red Wolf, as you can see by the drivel he just posted above.

    "He gets happy with every American death."

    Here we go...

    Someone go kick Red Wolf, his CD is skipping again.

    Is 'Red Wolf' a put on or for real? It just seems unreal that someone could possibly be that stupid!

    Red Wolf is either a troll or a nut. Sorry, Red Wolf. That's the truth.

    It's best for others to just smile, nod your head, and just keep on walking.

    Why would Olbermann support a group that would gladly cut his head off as much as they would enjoy cutting off O'Reilly's noggin?

    For a while I had thought Red Wolf was just putting on an act, but after a while I started to realize he's just naturally nutty.

    However, Red Wolf, if you are putting on an act I congratulate you.

    For a while, I had thought Krazy Keith was just putting on an act, but after a while I started to realize he's just naturally nutty.

    However, Keith, if you are putting on an act I congratulate you.

    Olbermann does get joyous with every American death. When I tune in and he's talking about he deaths in Iraq his voice sound joyous and pompous. He's one of the radical Leftwing journalists that're rooting for a US defeat. He hates Bush so much that in his mind, Al-Qaeda\Iran are good. He never condemns them or their propaganda. His goal is to demoralize the American public and ensure an Islamic victory.
    I have read somewhere rumours that he's converted to Islam and has been seen praying towards Mecca in tthe MSNBC studios. That's why he always attacks Jews and Christian and defend Muslims.
    I wish he would be charged and arrested for treson. I wish the arrest would happen on air live!

    "However, Keith, if you are putting on an act I congratulate you."

    Well at least Red Wolf isn't demanding $4 million for his work.

    So, who REALLY is the crazy person in this contest?

    Hank, let me begn by saying you seem to anger easily. You never met me and never will so why am I upsetting you so much? You should laugh at me like I'm laughing at you (or, better yet, smarten up:)

    Annnyhoo, I think I will share some more useless drivel. Olbermann is referred to quite a bit on FNC. Someone else below you mentioned that his name was spoken on Fox 7 times in the last two years, that's because they rarely say his namewhen they are talking about him. O'Reilly and John Gibson have said themselves that they refuse to speak his name, but it's clear that whenever a Fox personality is talking about him who they are referring to. So, yes you're correct that his NAME is rarely on FNC, but learn to read between the lines. In addition, while I'm aware that Olbermann attacks Fox too much on his show, he at least goes after them for specific comments that were made, and he always reads a quote or plays th clip. When Fox goes after him, on the other hand, it's always something pathetic like "more people are watching us so we're better" (the Fox and Friends folks are particularly good at that). And as for the NYP, reporting a story about an anonymous blogger who claims to have had an unsatisfying romantic encounter with Olbermann? Mocking him for alerting the authrities when a threatening letter with a white powder was mailed to him? Are you going to try and convince me that Olbermann has done anything more sleazy than that? I'll agree Fox isn't on a mission to discredit him, but they still take sad little shots at him like mentioned above often enough to show that they are affected by what he says, and rather than show that the accusations he makes against them are false, they use their ratings as a defense.

    I'll take your word for it that in the right hand column of the main page, mixed in among ads for Bill O'Reilly's book and the countdown to the end of Olbermann's contract and carefully chosen quotes from Olbermann, are some unbiased articles about Olbermann from a wide variety of sources. Buuut so what? I was talking about the main articles on this site that all you rabid Keith haters are drawn to and use as ammunition for your intense message board bashing. Perhaps I was exagerating by implying that there is nothing but stories from FNC and NYP on this site, but I wasn't expecting someone as angry as yourself to not realize that. Either way, this site does trumpet any shot at Olbermann from those sources as big news, when it's not news at all that they don't get along, and clearly Keith doesn't care, so why do you people?

    Now go back and read my other posts again. I never said Keith brings up the shots YOU people on this blog take at him (why would he?), I said he brings up the shots Fox and the Post take at him, which he has numerous times. And I never responded to the articles you mentioned because I never challenged "someone" to post articles. I said the bloggers should put some more on the main page where people will see them, not some random should link to some in the comments section.

    Wow I feel like I just wrote a whole lot more than I should have. Oh well, if my other posts got you upset I can't wait to see what you have to say now.

    Ohboy,

    Red Wolf could be Krazy Keith's co-host. Then Hannity and Colmes will be forgotten by all.

    It's funny you Leftists attack me but don't attack the point I'm making about Olbermann's sympathy for Islam.

    Here's why I think he's acting. He keeps insisting in all these interviews that he's not a Democrat, he's not a liberal, he's not politically active. And oh yes, he's not biased. So either he's lying in those interviews, or he's putting on one hell of an act on camera. Liar or actor? Either way, he's not the real deal that the liberals seem to think he is, by his own admission, in interview after interview.

    I would love to cohost with Olbermann. So I could knock him out his teeth!

    Brandon,

    Easy answer: Keith's a liar.

    Ohboy,
    Leftists like Olbermann hate the US government because Bush is president. Therefore it's the enemy of my enemy mentality. They hate the Judeo-Christian/Capitalist society that is America. They vie the Muslims as allies in that global struggle. It all goes back to the 70's when Radical Left groups made common cause with Radical Islamic groups in the name of global revolution.
    Olbermann is of that ideology and him not covering or condeming The Iranian Holocaust conference is proof of it.

    He Lefties look at this video. Maybe it'll open your eyes about your Islamic allies.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymLJz3N8ayI

    "but don't attack the point I'm making about Olbermann's sympathy for Islam."

    Being _opposed_ to the Bush Administration's policies against radical Islam doesn't mean one is _sympathetic_ to radical Islam.

    Surely you can see that?

    When has he even expressed support for the Islamists?

    Olbermann is worst than a liar. He's a propaganda agent for Al-Qaeda\Iran. He never mentions or condemns them. When Muslims are involved in terror plots he says purpoted. Like the story of the Flying Iman. He defends them, but when the fact come out about their suspicious behavior, he doesn't apologize or condemns the Imans.
    He's of the Goebels school of propaganda.

    Olbermann by opposing confronting the Islamo-Fascists, downplaying them or like in the case of Hizballah talking higly of them is supporting them.He never condemns their actions, but only those of his own country. That's supporting the enemy.

    ohboy,
    During the Mohammed cartoon riots, he told a guest "It's understandable and who can blame them".

    Believe me Red Wolf, folks have TRIED to debate you using actual logic and reason, but it goes in one ear and out the other. anyone who dares to mount any kind of a defense for Olbermann automatically becomes yet another "Islamo-Facist supporter".
    Once we catch on that your just a nut, we realize you're good for laughs.

    Oh Boy, we got em wound up now!

    Anon,
    Why during the cartoon roits did Olbermann express sysmpathy with the rioters oragnized by radical Imans?

    Red Wolf, have you got your doors locked. Are the deadbolts locked down tight? You never know when one of Islamo-Fascists is gonna come after you!

    Lefties,
    here's a site showing the links between your Islamic allies and the Nazis.
    It's funny David Duke was in Iran, Olbermann did a Nazi salute and Olbermann called Chris Wallace a monkey, a term Muslims use for Jews!

    http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/

    Anonymous,
    Never underestimate your enemies. I don't understnd why the left is sympathetic or downplay Islamic radicals.

    There's an Islamo - Fascist lurking in every corner! You can never be too carefull. At night, they come out and rape our women while terrorizing peacefull suburban neighborhoods!

    Anon,
    Keep laughing about it. It's the same mistake the Eastern Romans and Persian did when they 1st came out of the desert.

    Anonymous,

    You better watch out. Bush just ordered the FBI to tap your phone, just now. You can never be to carefull!

    I've heard some of the mall Santas are Islamo-Fascists, so I don't let my kids go to them anymore!

    Anon,
    I'm a member of Bush's secret death squad. Now that Habeous Corpus has been removed, you're in trouble!

    This is really incredible news, that the Joint Chiefs of Staff are thumbing their noses at the Commander in Chief . This has never happened as long as I can remember....even during the Vietnam War.
    The Joint Chiefs know that committing thousands of more troops would be a disaster for our courageous men and women.
    Bush only seems to care about his legacy.

    Yet the right wingers on here, don't even mention it.
    Just same ole same ole for them.

    Talk about wearing blinders !

    Bob, why would we want to talk about wearing blinders?

    Excuse me Red Wolf, I was just watchin Colbert and got distracted. I know he's an Islamo-Facist too but he sure is a funny one!

    bob,
    Thanks to the demoralization of America due to the likes of George Soros, Howard Dean, Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, NBC News, CBS News, ABC News, CNN and the NY Times this war is a lost cause. It's time to bring our troops home and prepare for the coming Islamic invasion.

    Blinders make you trip over your own pride and ego, Kind of like Our president is doing.

    Anonymous,

    Red Wolf asked you a question and you did not answer it. Instead you started with insults. That's not using "logic and reasoning". One of the main "signatures" of a dingbat Leftist is that they will do just about anything to avoid giving a direct answer to a direct question. I say the shoe fits.

    Bob, meet Red Wolf; Islamic doomsayer. Red Wolf, meet Bob: Islamic-Fascist supporter!

    Oh no! Did Rico just call me a "dingbat leftist" - anything but THAT!

    Now you've REALLY hurt my feelings!

    "Hank, let me begn by saying you seem to anger easily . . ."

    And what telepathic power do you possess that allows you to discern that? Looking back over my posts, I simply answered your charges. I did label your posts as drivel, but that was simply an opinion based upon my conclusion that your premises and conclusions are nonsensical. No insults, no exclamation points, no all caps, just rebuttals. Sorry if you misinterpreted.

    Joe, I suppose the same telepathic powers you possess that allow you to magically determine when I am angry also enable you to know when FNC hosts are really thinking about Olby even when they don't even say a word about him or his network. Or maybe they really aren't thinking about him or talking about him because Olby is hoping, and praying, and pleading and begging for FNC to pretty please say something, anything about me . .. please! (Disclaimer: Joe, I used an exclamation point here, but please temporarily disengage your telepathic powers because this is not meant to convey anger).

    Does it not occur to you Joe that perhaps the one who is flailing away (Olby) for such perceived slights as FNC mispelling his name or when Olby falsely and outrageously accuses BOR of supporting Nazis, that this is more of a problem than the once in a blue moon that Olby even gets an oblique reference on FNC?

    "Perhaps I was exagerating by implying that there is nothing but stories from FNC and NYP on this site"

    Yes, you were. Again Joe, I pointed out Olby's hypocrisy by using Olby's own words from interviews that were certainly not from left wing sources (USC Journalism Scool and San Bernadino County Sun). Do you contend that Olby is telling the truth when he says he is "not political"? Are you willing to concede that Olbermann has lied to create the illusion that he is a nonpartisan reporter of the news rather than a left wing cheerleader? (Disclaimer: I have attempted to pose these questions to you in anonconfrontational style devoid of anger to avoid setting off your telepathic anger detectors).

    As far as the NYPost stuff, I agree with you that the NYPOst did not handle the story about the white powder substance sent to Olbermann properly. My recollection is that most of this site's posters on this issue did not support the way the NYPOst reported it. It was an event that could have been a very serious threat to the life of another human so Olby's actions to ensure his safety should not have been mocked. That notwithstanding, Olby's casual use of the Seig Hitler salute was unspeakably awful because it dredged up the horror of the Holocaust and Olby never apologized for it even after an admonishment about it from the ADL. Olby made a BIG JOKE about it on the Tonight Show w/ Leno cliaming he was just saying hello to a friend (You know what, Joe, now that I think about this Nazi salute thing by Olby, I am starting to get a little angry, just thought I'd let you know). So to answer your question Joe, yes, Olby has acted worse than the NYPost.

    Joe, you seem to expect that this site will give favorable coverage to Olby front and center as often as it gives attention to negative Olby coverage. Here's a newflash: this is a website with a point of view and we don't suport Olby and his left wing cheerleading while he poses under the guise of a "newsman". If that's unacceptable to you, then you will not enjoy this site very much.


    Anonymous,

    You still haven't answered the question.

    But Rico, I'm just a little ole leftist dingbat, and we all know they never answer questions, especially about them sneaky Islamo-Fascists! They might hear me and saw my head off!

    Anonymous,

    I thought you wanted to do "logic and reasoning". Guess not! But that makes you a "lying liar". That's not good.

    Well now Rico, if your just gonna keep on insultin me like that, I'll just turn off my computer an go home! I jus hope the Islamo-Fascists don't git me on the way!

    Anonymous,

    You keep bringing up "Islamo-Fascists". Why? I haven't.

    "It's funny you Leftists attack me but don't attack the point I'm making about Olbermann's sympathy for Islam.

    Posted by: Red Wolf at December 19, 2006 10:40 PM"

    Uhhh... sympathy for Islam? Would that be like having sympathy for Judaism or Christianity?

    But I get your illiterate uneducated hillbilly meaning. Is it sympathy for Islamists who want to cut off the heads of shop keepers who sell video's of Sesame Street, or sympathy for hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis at the mercy of a f---ed American administration lead by a retard that can't walk and chew gum at the same time?

    Your suggestion that more than a billion people of the Islamic faith are all the same, is right in line with the KKK upbringing your mom's alcoholic boy friend you call Uncle Jim, raised you to think like. At least that is how your commentary defines you from my perspective as an empathetically capable human being. Go back and finish the eighth grade!

    Trailer park trash at it's finest.

    Red Wolf,

    90 years ago, we were told to be afraid of "the Huns".

    60 years ago, it was the Nazis and the Imperial Japanese that were going to get us. Warnings about spies and "disloyal Asians" were everywhere.

    50 years ago, it was the "Red Menace" that had "Fifth Columns" ready to topple the government from within.

    Now, it's Muslims and Arabs that are going to invade our shores...

    The song is the same, the only thing that changes is the dance partner.

    So Ensign, you're saying that in WWII you would have been on the side of the Nazi's and the Japs becuase they were really just "misunderstood" and FDR was making them out to be our enemies when they weren't?

    Wow! A few weeks ago we were winning the war in Iraq, according to Bush...now we aren't winning...

    Can you say "flip-flop", kids?

    Has a terrorist or terrorist organization EVER been named WPITW???

    Does Krazy Keith even acknowledge the indisputable fact that radical Islam wants to wiped Israel off the planet and kill ALL non believers(USA).

    Aid and comfort to the enemy....that is Krazy Keith's motto!!

    Will Krazy Keith score a sit down interview with the president of Iran and hand him a giant check?????

    "OJR: How would you describe yourself politically on the liberal-to-conservative spectrum?
    KO: I'm not political. I don't vote. . . I have no more interest in the political outcome of an election than I did in the winner or loser of any ballgame I ever covered."

    This statement is probably true.It explains alot about his show and the leftwing dominated media.ko clearly doesn't know much about the topics he "covers" because he doesn't care .....no debates since that would show how little ko knows....topics mined from the lefty blogs...the same tired radical lefty guests that no one else wants....jeez even the title of his lame show"Countdown" is stolen from his old employers at espn!!Nothing original or even mildly thought provoking..The key is keeping it far leftwing
    the further the better...ko knows who is writing
    his paychecks .....kinda says alot about his fans
    ... at least ko is doing what he has to make money
    can't fault a guy for that....but his fans...can you hear ko laughing???

    A rerun of his special comments on Monday night got 500,000 viewers actually is not bad compared with his ratings a year ago, average is about 300,000 to 400,000 a night. It is just too expensive to have him on air an hour per night, five nights per week period And he does not travel, only limit to Secaucus, New Jersy and New York City. If his special comments worth that much, then I am wondering what is Chris Matthews' politial mind worth then. Priceless.

    He has an excuse not to travel, the injury of his head, then I don't get it, he will travel to LA, six hours flight at least one way to attend Emmy award, his was not nominated or won any awards, and the GQ party, guys, it is just a PARTY. Can someone explain to me like a three years old?

    you have to admit that there is not any one network as vehemently extreme to left as fox is to the right, with malkin, coulter, orally, hume, wallace et al.

    but, i think keith is doing the best he can without being fired--or taken to guantanamo!

    Posted by: james risser at December 19, 2006 08:39 PM
    -----------
    James,
    Considering that each and everyone you list has either worked for NBC or are semi-frequent guests on Today...then you must think that NBC is vehemently extreme to the right?

    PS: For all of those who took JD's posting of this seriously...Please ask your friends and relatives for gift certificates for Christmas so that you can go out and buy a clue.

    "Hey, here's a thought, how about sometime you refer to an article or comment [about Olbermann] that wasn't made on Fox News or in the New York Post?"
    =====================================================
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVqdOkgX-iY
    there's a clip of him on the craig ferguson late late show. I almost laughed when he said he thought of himself as "politically correct" but probably not for the reasons he wanted.

    Although I will admit this, I have to say that he seems to have a pretty good idea on keeping journalists from participating in politics (voting and I'd extend it to donating money, time etc to parties and so forth).

    There I said it, Keith has had a good idea.

    Red Wolf,

    90 years ago, we were told to be afraid of "the Huns".

    60 years ago, it was the Nazis and the Imperial Japanese that were going to get us. Warnings about spies and "disloyal Asians" were everywhere.

    50 years ago, it was the "Red Menace" that had "Fifth Columns" ready to topple the government from within.

    Now, it's Muslims and Arabs that are going to invade our shores...

    The song is the same, the only thing that changes is the dance partner.
    ===================================================
    Umm.... so... wait, all those times they weren't invading?

    Pearl Harbor was just a greeting?
    September 11th was just a mishap?
    And Attila WAS invading Europe and going to wreck it like he had everything else before happenstance killed him off (luckily).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attila

    So umm... what's really your point?

    FOR ALL THE RIGHT WINGERS OUT THERE....SOMETHING TO PLAY WITH

    http://www.glumbert.com/media/roleplay


    HELL NO WE WON'T GO!

    Is it the cry of the right wing chickenhawks?
    Has the draft been reinstated?

    Nope.
    It's the Joint Chiefs of Staff thumbing their nose at President Bush !
    Whether they go through with it ,remains to be seen.
    But it SHOULD be illuminating to all of the Olbermann haters and Bush supporters how Bush's ideas have even outraged the highest members of the military.

    On a similar note, Presdident Bush finally came out yesterday and admitted that we are losing the War in Iraq.
    When any of us have stated this obvious point we've been called traitors, Islamic Fascist supporters( just in the above post)and worse.

    Now that your own president has said it,a few questions:
    Is he also a traitor ?
    Don't you feel totally foolish that you've scorched anyone who has told the truth about us losing the war?

    Or do you not have any shame , conscience or common sense ?

    Good job , Barry. That video is mandatory viewing !

    "So Ensign, you're saying that in WWII you would have been on the side of the Nazi's and the Japs becuase they were really just "misunderstood" and FDR was making them out to be our enemies when they weren't?"

    "So umm... what's really your point?"

    No, my point was that every time we're told that the "enemy" is relentless and will invade our shores and destroy our way of life. The government pounds the drums of fear - and at this point the audience is tired of drumming. Call it "percussion fatigue".

    Hey Honeydew...what is the difference in these two statements?

    "We're not winning, we're not losing,"

    and

    "We are going to lose the war in Iraq"

    The difference is between someone doing something honorable with the current situation, challenges and resources......and.....

    You, a coward, traitor and imbecile who confuses stories.....

    Based on an anonymous source, The Joint Chiefs have issues with short-term troop increases in Iraq specifically.....They do not disagree with Bush's opinion, which he discussed yesterday with the WaPo, that was in regards to increasing the numbers in the ENTIRE Armed Forces. The chiefs agree with the civilian leaders on this point.

    "It's the Joint Chiefs of Staff thumbing their nose at President Bush !"

    Wrong again, Honeydew....
    You are an idiot.

    Harry Reid supports sending more troops to Iraq. The Dems won because "Americans want a new direction in Iraq". Is this the new direction???

    Is Reid thumbing his nose at the Joint Chiefs??

    I think Red Wolf should be one of the first to answer my above questions , especially since he feels that "George Soros, Howard Dean, Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, NBC News, CBS News, ABC News, CNN and the NY Times " are the ones that lost the War IN Iraq, and not the chief architects of the war.

    What...no Cindy SHeehan on the list ?

    BushCo f---ed up Iraq pretty good. It\'ll probably end up spinning out even worse than it is now. Oh well, live and learn. That\'s the silver lining. Even tho our military has been misused/damaged, they\'ll come back stronger. Vietnam gave us the Powell doctrine. Which gave us Desert Storm. The same thing will happen after this fiasco. Unfortunately, there will be 5K dead and 25K disabled -- easy -- by the time it\'s all over. Oops. Sorry. Live and Learn.

    Rick,

    Too bad it wasn't necessary to "live and learn" since people have been advising the wartime deserter president from the begining and he's been ignoring everyone but his dad, Cheney...

    No, my point was that every time we're told that the "enemy" is relentless and will invade our shores and destroy our way of life. The government pounds the drums of fear - and at this point the audience is tired of drumming. Call it "percussion fatigue".
    =====================================================
    But in almost every one of those times, the statement was true. Why do you think it's been said that freedom requires eternal vigilance?

    That's akin to saying that since we're all going to die, we're tired of being told to eat right and exercise, etc.

    By Peter Baker
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Wednesday, December 20, 2006; A01

    "President Bush acknowledged for the first time yesterday that the United States is not winning the war in Iraq".

    If we're not winning the war,WE ARE LOSING THE WAR...
    which has been confirmed by 100 's of people from ex-generals and Jack Murtha on down .

    "We're not winning, We're not losing " came from Bush's top military advisor.
    WTF does that mean ?

    Days before the November elections, Bush said, "We're ABSOLUTELY winning the war in Iraq"

    Dr . Lapdog would be all over this contradiction if it came from a Democratic president.

    Have we gone from "winning" to "not winning" in a few short weeks?

    Who's the idiot( and liar)...President Bush, Dr. Lapdog, or both?

    The answer is as obvious as the erroneous statement that "We will be greeted with roses "

    Lapdog keeps fighting this losing battle of the words and continues to embarrass himself.

    "Harry Reid supports sending more troops to Iraq. The Dems won because "Americans want a new direction in Iraq". Is this the new direction???"

    Statement by Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) 12/19/2006:

    "Frankly, I don't believe that more troops is the answer for Iraq. It's a civil war and America should not be policing a Sunni-Shia conflict. In addition, we don't have the additional forces to put in there. We obviously want to support what commanders in the field say they need, but apparently even the Joint Chiefs do not support increased combat forces for Baghdad. My position on Iraq is simple:

    1. I believe we should start redeploying troops in 4 to 6 months (The Levin-Reed Plan) and complete the withdrawal of combat forces by the first quarter of 2008. (As laid out by the Iraq Study Group)

    2. The President must understand that there can only be a political solution in Iraq, and he must end our nation's open-ended military commitment to that country.

    3. These priorities need to be coupled with a renewed diplomatic effort and regional strategy.

    I do not support an escalation of the conflict. I support finding a way to bring our troops home and would look at any plan that gave a roadmap to this goal."

    As to Grim, he wrote:
    "Why do you think it's been said that freedom requires eternal vigilance?"

    You must be working from a different definition of "vigilance" than I am. "Vigilance" requires that the person watching be alert - but all these people saying "be afraid" are dulling our alertness. When the government releases "terror watch" after "terror watch" that is based on flimsy and/or bad information, it makes the public less responsive to the ones that matter.

    Since Dr. Lapdog is incapable of rational thought when it comes to Bush and the republicans, anyone else want to comment on this contradiction:

    Bush, before the election:"We are absolutely winning the war in Iraq."

    Yesterday: " We are not winning the War in Iraq. "

    Cmon now, try for one minute to put your partisanship aside, and be honest.

    "But in almost every one of those times, the statement was true."

    Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

    Professor Honeydew....

    George Bush is trying to defeat terrorists....they are fighting back. The terrorists are supported by countries dedicated to a panmuslim Middle East, a Middle East rid of anyone who is not supportive of Fundamentalist Islam: Atheists, Jews, Hindus, Christians, whatever....

    This is not a matter of you winning a debate....it is a matter of life and death for millions not only in Iraq, but throughout the free world.

    You had us losing in Iraq prior to the invasion and overthrowing of Saddam Hussein. Bush is focused on winning the war.

    I would only call it a contradiction if The President said, "The US has been losing in Iraq and we will never win in Iraq."

    That is not what Bush said, Honeydew, and your all CAPS will change it.

    Also, as usual, the loser leftists ignore 2 positive developments in Iraq....

    From AP

    "The U.S.-led coalition handed over security responsibilities in Iraq's Najaf province to Iraqi forces on Wednesday, a key step in troubled efforts to get the fragile government to stand on its own."

    From AP

    "U.S.-led forces captured a senior Al Qaeda leader who was responsible for hundreds of civilian deaths and housed foreign fighters who carried out suicide bombings, the U.S. military said Wednesday."

    Whether "losing" or "winning" currently (my goodness, this sound like we're talking about a football game for goodness sake....it's a war!)....honorable people who truly support our troops want them to succeed in Iraq and do constructive things to that end.

    Are your really that stupid. Why won't Bush parrot Murtha and co?

    As soon as the commander and chief (democrat or republican) says we are losing a war, the troops will lose morale and initiative. It is imparitive that he contnues to put a smiley face on it. As much as you would like Bush to lose this war, its terrible for out military and country. So that is why I wish you liberals would shut up and bitch about the deficit instead. We are in a war. Bush can't be re-elected so he can't benefit from a victory. So why are you so against winning this war?

    cee,

    Bush has absolutely no interest in defeating terrorism. The Saudis attacked us and he not only kept them as allies, but blacked any reference to them from the first 9/11 report. The Pakistanis are our allies and they harbor Bin Laden and have sold nuclear secrets and materials to terrorists.

    Moreover, until this year, Bush has been completely unconcerned with our borders and port security.

    Time to look at reality.

    Saudis attacked us? IDIOT!
    Nuclear secrets? Cite it IDIOT!
    What 'reality blogs' are you on?

    Radical sunni muslims, who were from Saudi Arabi, attacked us on 9/11......

    just like there are radical muslims from Egypt, Jordan, Iran, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, The United States, Afghanistan, etc. in Iraq now attacking Iraqi civilians and our troops with Iranian IED's and homicide terrorist bombings.

    These militants even kill their fellow muslims for the political goal of defeating the US.....and people like Honeydew want to give them the entire country....nice.

    This is the reality of the war on terror.....a war liberals do not even recognize.

    CEE: Get the feeling that anon is really KeithO who will say anything to advance his liberal bullshit? He'd advance all his propaganda about the Saudis and Pakistanis, and still come here and bitch if we did attack them. Spare me.

    Dear Ms. Hater:

    Most of the hijackers were Saudis and the attack was funded by Saudis...

    "ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- The United States is standing by key ally Pakistan after the father of its nuclear weapons program admitted he had shared nuclear secrets with other nations.

    In a stunning admission on national television, Abdul Qadeer Khan on Wednesday apologized for transferring nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea and Libya, following a whirlwind of allegations against him.

    Pakistan's top nuclear scientist, who is considered a national hero, said he acted alone, and the government was not involved..."

    But, the government never pressed charges against him either.

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/02/04/pakistan.nuclear/index.html

    I always have proof, son...

    Got any?

    "Saudis attacked us? IDIOT!"

    15 of the 19 suspected hijackers were Saudi. Many had connections with Sulayman al Alwan, a radical Saudi cleric. Five of the hijackers used a "Visa Express" program that allowed Saudis to use a less stringent process to enter the U.S.

    "Nuclear secrets? Cite it IDIOT!"

    "The founder of Pakistan's nuclear program, Abdul Qadeer Khan, has admitted he transferred nuclear technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea, a Pakistani government official said Monday" - Associated Press, December 2, 2004

    Dr. Lapdog continues to obscure the truth about Bush quotes.

    Rover says:I would only call it a contradiction if The President said, "The US has been losing in Iraq and we will never win in Iraq."

    Now the real world.
    Bush said before the election, that "We are absolutely winning the war in Iraq"

    Yesterday, he said," We are not winning the war in Iraq."

    Both quotes are listed in today's WAPO (that you cited so I'm sure you saw it.)

    yet you claim Bush did not say it.
    You've never had much credibility at this site, but you have completely lost any shred you ever had with that comment.

    plus...

    The (not so pious) doctor tells us ad nauseuum about his Judeo- Christian background but unleashes a "you're an idiot ,traitor, coward imbecile " barrage at me.

    Nice.

    Since this is a season of good will towards all men, I'll show some charity here, even if you're incapable of it.

    Answer this question:
    If Bill Clinton, as president, said one week that we are absolutely winning a war, and a few weeks later said we are not winning a war, would you not totally torch him with this contradiction( lie)?

    Sorry Cee, both of Bush's comments have been documented , as much as you would like for the press to just go away in times such as these.

    YOU WROTE: The Saudis attacked us and he not only kept them as allies....
    ACTUAL FACT YOU CHOSE TO FORGET: Saudi nationals who enlisted in Al Qaeda attacked the US. Not Saudi Arabia.

    YOU WROTE: The Pakistanis are our allies and they harbor Bin Laden and have sold nuclear secrets and materials to terrorists.
    ACTUAL FACT YOU CHOSE TO FORGET: Pakistani mountainous territories house Bin Laden, not the governement.

    YOU WROTE: The Pakistanis...have sold nuclear secrets and materials to terrorists.
    ACTUAL FACT YOU CHOSE TO FORGET: A Pakistani scientist worked independent of the government (a.k.a. a spy) and passed secrets to COUNTRIES, not terrorists.

    You lie and stretch.
    You got nothing but ignornace boy.

    You must be working from a different definition of "vigilance" than I am. "Vigilance" requires that the person watching be alert - but all these people saying "be afraid" are dulling our alertness. When the government releases "terror watch" after "terror watch" that is based on flimsy and/or bad information, it makes the public less responsive to the ones that matter.
    =====================================================
    If you want to discuss too many false alarms nowadays that's one thing, but to look through history and say that each instance was ALWAYS a false alarm is akin to saying that we've never been threatened... at all. (which is just historical ignorance)

    "But in almost every one of those times, the statement was true."

    Ha! Ha! Ha!......
    =====================================================
    This brilliant rebuttal was brought to you by Rick.

    Benson says:Are your really that stupid. Why won't Bush parrot Murtha and co?

    That "and co" are ex generals that served in Iraq, yet you deny their words and don't want to believe it.
    The "and co" also includes some of the top conservatives in the country.
    Why won't Bush (parrot) speak the truth about it?
    Maybe b/c he knows his whole legacy is wrapped up in this war.

    "As soon as the commander and chief (democrat or republican) says we are losing a war, the troops will lose morale and initiative."

    Bush just came out yesterday saying "We are not winning the war in iraq."
    Do you really think the troops are that stupid and don't know what that means?

    While you continue to hold on for dear life your POV, it's all crumbling around you.
    You're willingness to play semantics with the points Bush is making, just further proves it.

    Ms. Hater,

    We attacked Iraq, supposedly because they had some small connection with 9/11...yet, the hijackers were connected to the Saudi Royal family and Bush continues to kiss their butts.

    According to a recent report, Pakistan has made a deal with the Taliban to settle in part of their country. They are terrorist sympathizers. Perhaps if they changed their name to "Terrorist-land" you might pull your head out of the sand and recognize it, but I doubt it. You have too much fear of authority figures...

    Pakistan's TOP scientist sold the secrets and was never prosecuted by Pakistan. That is almost unprecedented, except that the person that outed Plame was never prosecuted. I guess terrorist-lovers think alike, eh boy?

    Now, why don't you show me how Bush is interested in fighting terror? Should be good for a laugh...

    Bobbo- You live for Bush to say "we are losing the war." Any good commander and chief would never admit defeat. But you press and press, as all liberals do. What is your motivation? Mine is to see the US win... to defeat terrorism.

    "Saudis attacked us? IDIOT!"

    15 of the 19 suspected hijackers were Saudi. Many had connections with Sulayman al Alwan, a radical Saudi cleric. Five of the hijackers used a "Visa Express" program that allowed Saudis to use a less stringent process to enter the U.S.

    "Nuclear secrets? Cite it IDIOT!"

    "The founder of Pakistan's nuclear program, Abdul Qadeer Khan, has admitted he transferred nuclear technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea, a Pakistani government official said Monday" - Associated Press, December 2, 2004

    Posted by: Anonymous at December 20, 2006 11:34 AM

    And what have the Democrats purposed to do about these problems. Nothing, just bitch about Bush.

    Anon. You changing the subject liberal boy? I guess you are too busy eating your words in your previous post. Maybe you should reread my last post. Your new counterpoints are nothing more than Olby logic and assumptions.

    Hater,

    Since I've provided facts and you've provided idiocy, I'll just accept your pathetic surrender, son...

    If Bill Clinton, as president, said one week that we are absolutely winning a war, and a few weeks later said we are not winning a war, would you not totally torch him with this contradiction( lie)?
    =====================================================
    I wouldn't since over a period of weeks something could change to alter his statement. It's not exactly a lie or a contradiction. That's like saying a kid who claims he's going to get a ps3 for christmas only to get underwear lied or contradicted himself.

    You have no facts! YOU have lost again. Why do you even come here to get bitch slapped day after day?

    Hater,

    I asked you to provide proof that Bush is fighting terrorism. You've provided nothing. When you asked for proof, it was provided.

    You see the bind that I'm in. To the casual observer, you look like an idiot, son. Too bad you cannot back up a single thing that you say or believe...

    You have no facts! YOU have lost again. Why do you even come here to get bitch slapped day after day?

    ANON WROTE: The Saudis attacked us and he not only kept them as allies....
    ACTUAL FACT YOU CHOSE TO FORGET: Saudi nationals who enlisted in Al Qaeda attacked the US. Not Saudi Arabia. Actually these Al Queda nationals despise the Suadi.

    ANON WROTE: The Pakistanis are our allies and they harbor Bin Laden.
    ACTUAL FACT YOU CHOSE TO FORGET: Pakistani mountain territories house Bin Laden, not the governement.

    YOU WROTE: The Pakistanis...have sold nuclear secrets and materials to terrorists.
    ACTUAL FACT YOU CHOSE TO FORGET: A Pakistani scientist worked independent of the government (a.k.a. a spy) and passed secrets to COUNTRIES, not terrorists. He actually was not prosecuted because he was considered a national hero for advancing the Pakistan nuclear program so far. Only reason for no prosecution.

    That little man, smells like a napalm victory to me!

    Bush is just the lying mouthpiece. Most folks know it by now. Hence his approval numbers. The facts on the ground bear witness to his failed policies. Which are getting worse all the time. No big surprise there. The truth usually outs in the end. Which is why Rove's Thousand Year Right didn't last very long.

    Anon (12:21),

    Pretty sad, son. You chose to forget that the Saudis also funded 9/11 and that we attacked two countries on the basis of their involvement with the terrorists. Neither was as involved as the Saudis.

    Those Pakistanis and their scary mountains. Of course you chose to forget that, last week, it was reported that the government there had an agreement with the Taliban. But, keep that head in the sand, child...

    Hero or not, if there is no prosecution for an act that could lead to the deaths of millions, you can bet that the government is behind it. In fact, the hero angle is just asinine enough for neocons to grasp at it as if it were a straw, son. Good grab!

    Of course, you miss the lax border security, the attempts to farm out port security to the UAE, the open munitions dumps after the invasion and a host of other things. But, we all need our delusions, eh Blanche?

    YOU WROTE: "Neither was as involved as the Saudis"
    So Afghansitan which housed AlQeada was less involved? No!

    YOU WROTE: "had an agreement with the Taliban"
    Pakistan denies this pact?

    YOU WROTE: "you can bet that the government is behind it"
    Another assumption anon?

    See you need facts little man!

    Hater,

    Afghanistan may have housed Al Qaeda, but the terrorists came from Saudi Arabia. Perhaps if I mention that again, it will penetrate your thick skull...

    I'm sure that Pakistan denies the pact, however...

    "Reports say Pak border is terror sanctuary
    WASHINGTON, Dec. 19 (UPI) -- Reports fro m the Afghan-Pakistan border say al-Qaida and other groups are using a sanctuary there to plot suicide attacks against targets worldwide.

    Newsweek and the Pakistani newspaper Daily Times both carried reports this week about terrorist training efforts based in the lawless tribal areas of Pakistan, where some extremists are now protected under the terms of peace deals between the authorities and local leaders..."

    http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20061219-010557-7452r

    See, the above is a "citation"...you should try it when you prove that you have a spine and can prove that Bush is fighting terrorism, son...

    "ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) -- A peace deal between Pakistan's government and Islamic militants in North Waziristan has created a virtual Taliban mini-state where mullahs dispense justice and fighters are launching cross-border attacks into neighboring Afghanistan, a think tank said.

    The U.S. military confirmed that attacks have risen sharply since the deal was reached earlier this year despite concerns it would give a freer hand to Taliban and al Qaeda-linked militants who fled to Pakistan after the fall of the hardline regime in Afghanistan in 2001..."

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/12/11/pakistan.taliban.ap/

    More details for you to try to spin, son...

    Well, there's always the all-purpose line for idiots which passes for argument in a certain circle around here:

    How can you complain about Olbermann lying when Bush lied about Iraq, man...

    How can you complain about Olbermann being biased when there's Fox News, man...

    How can you....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    You are hopeless- "The Terrorists were born in Saudi Arabia"- declared the Saudia Arabian government their enemy, fled the country to terrorist camps in Afghanistan, and attacked the US. The terrorists came from Saudi Arabia is Olbylogic.

    ARTICLES CONTINUES: The Pakistani government rejected the Brussels-based group's report as "baseless allegations" and described the violence across the border as Afghanistan's internal problem.

    Hater,

    Wow! They DENIED it??? What are the odds???

    So, multiple outside sources state that it is fact but you believe Pakistan. Hilarious! Did you believe Afghanistan when they said that they had nothing to do with 9/11?

    Still no proof that Bush is fighting terror, son. Too tough a task?

    Hey Professor Honeydew, my Judeo-Christian world view demands I call a lie a lie, and a liar a liar.....Imbecile may have gone too far....

    If you even did an ounce of reserch you would find the quote the Washington Post got as follows:

    "I think an interesting construct that Gen. Pace uses is, 'We're not winning, we're not losing.' "

    The Post characterized it as a "reversal," and I did not see the term "contradiction." Go back to my original post and see that although the terrorists have caused thousands of deaths and have become more of a challange to the Iraqi and US forces, the good guys could still win in Iraq.

    You and your liberal losers said the good guys lost the war before Saddam was even captured.

    That, by logic, has you aligned with the bad guys...the militant islamists.

    Plus, as usual, you ignore the two positive pieces of news coming out of Iraq because it doesn't fit into your argument, Honeydew.

    Afghanistan had it's largest opium crop ever this year.
    The Taliban cut a deal for safe haven.
    Attacks are way up.

    Yeah, freedom's marching great through Afghanistan.
    Almost as good as Iraq.
    Way to go BushCO.

    Hank:

    Exclamation points or no exclamation points, it's quite clear I'm getting under your skin. Maybe I do have telepathic powers. In any case, no I'm not willing to concede that Olbermann has lied to create the illusion that he is a nonpartisan reporter of the news rather than a left wing cheerleader, because I never said otherwise. I KNOW he has lied everytime he said he isn't liberal and that he is very partisan. You would have more than a few screws loose to not realize that. Olbermann is as far to the left as Sean Hannity is to the right and neither one should be considered a journalist. I never suggested otherwise and we weren't arguing about that so why you brought that up I'm not sure.

    The Nazi salute deal, which was obviously a horrible thing for Olbermann to do, WASN'T a story he covered on his show. My comment earlier was that the NYP uses their position as a media outlet to run the sleazy stories that they do, and while Olbermann should have never done the salute, he did it at press conference as a (bad) joke for the reporters in attendence. If he had gone on his show and held up an O'Reilly mask and did the Nazi salute it would have been much worse because that environment is meant to be used for reporting the news. If the NYP writer who wrote the story about Olbermann's sexual exploits had made a joke about said exploits to a group of his colleagues and never printed the story, then it would have been no big deal, it would have simply been a lewd joke. But by writing the story and a major newspaper printing it, it takes it to a whole other disgraceful level. Surely you can see the difference?

    Also, I don't need to magically deduce when the Fox personalities are talking about Olbermann without speaking his name because they make it more than obvious. Yes, sometimes O'Reilly and others refer to NBC in general, I'm not talking about those times. But when O'Reilly and Geraldo and the Fox and Friends crew and John Gibson and others talk about "the guy from MSNBC that no one is watching and bashes Fox News for attention etc etc" and then go on to make some cheap insult (if no one is watching him and he has no affect on them why bother with the insults, is what I don't get) I think that yes, it is clear they mean Olbermann.

    Hank I think you're under the impresion I'm an Olbermann fan. I'm not. I just think other news personalities are just as or more dispectible than him, several of them are from FNC or NYP. This site seems to salivate over attacks thrown at Olbermann from those very personalities, and I wanted to point out the hypocricy of that. People who refer to the Olbermann supporters as "Loony Left" while at the same time they support cheerleaders of the Loony Right should take a step back and think about how ridiculous that is.

    Of course, you miss the lax border security, the attempts to farm out port security to the UAE, the open munitions dumps after the invasion and a host of other things. But, we all need our delusions, eh Blanche?
    =====================================================
    Wait! I thought Iraq had no weapons. If so, what's up with this 'munition dumps'?

    Is it me or does it seem like Iraq only has weapons when it hurts Bush?

    Grim,

    They had no unseal WMD's. That bit of sophistry was beneath you...

    A-
    at what point did Iraq go from having weapons of mass destruction to not having them

    I think we should take Mike Gallagher and slit his throat after ripping out his vocal chords.

    Grim,

    They had no unseal WMD's. That bit of sophistry was beneath you...
    =====================================================
    What do you mean beneath me? I'm just seriously curious as to why one minute we're told Iraq had no weapons to the next told that it had weapons just laying around for any crazy terrorists to pick up. At the moment I'm seeing a contradiction till someone clarifies it for me.

    Fred Bear: Apparently in the early to mid 90's when Saddam figured out they weren't going to help him in any meaningfull way.

    when you got this information back in the 1990's, did you contact our government to let them know

    "I think we should take Mike Gallagher and slit his throat after ripping out his vocal chords."


    If shooting your fool mouth off and childishly trying to shock others was a crime that merited that sort of punishment, O'Lielly, you'd have been throatless long ago...

    O'lie....
    why don't you go ahead and try yourself? or do you only call on others to do your dirty work for you?

    It works out well for us when you do...because you'll be headed to maximum security pound you in the butt prison

    Keith Olbermann is easily the most obnoxious and pathetic person on national TV. It's unfathomable that he can have a prime-time show on cable.

    He has the audacity to proclaim himself objective and his entire show is geared toward bashing conservatives. Every guest of his has an axe to grind against conservatives or the President or the Liberal Flavor of the Month.

    The saddest part is he's so transparent and doesn't seem to know the world is laughing at him. Like George Clinton once sang, "a fish don't know he's wet!"

    Hey Keith! You're a psychopathic left-winger!

    "I'm just seriously curious as to why one minute we're told Iraq had no weapons to the next told that it had weapons just laying around for any crazy terrorists to pick up."

    You're confusing Weapons of Mass Destruction with conventional weapons - to this point, no one has provided proof that Iraq had WMD's (other than the incredibly old chemical weapons shells left over from the Iran/Iraq war that were well past their "Use By" date and had been documented extensively by the UN Inspection teams as unusable).

    However, conventional munitions (mortars, rockets, artillery shells, etc.) were not secured and looted by the insurgents/foreign agitators. These are the weapons we're talking about when we say the U.S. failed to secure the munitions dumps.

    O'Reilly, Hannity, Colmes, Gibson - these guys on FOX News TELL you where they're coming from and what they believe. They're not trying to fool anyone under the guise of an "objective newsman". The very fact that Keith Olbermann proclaims himself to be a "newsman" is beyond laughable. The man's so obsessed with bashing conservatism one needs only to tune in for a scant 2 minutes to find the same old drumbeat.

    O'Reilly et al have liberals on, they have conservatives on. Keith lives in a bubble, and here's hoping it pops soon.

    O'Reilly, Hannity, Colmes, Gibson - these guys on FOX News TELL you where they're coming from and what they believe. They're not trying to fool anyone under the guise of an "objective newsman". The very fact that Keith Olbermann proclaims himself to be a "newsman" is beyond laughable. The man's so obsessed with bashing conservatism one needs only to tune in for a scant 2 minutes to find the same old drumbeat.

    O'Reilly et al have liberals on, they have conservatives on. Keith lives in a bubble, and here's hoping it pops soon.

    "keith lives in a bubble".

    Yea, a lot like George Bush!

    "O'Reilly, Hannity, Colmes, Gibson - these guys on FOX News TELL you where they're coming from and what they believe. They're not trying to fool anyone under the guise of an "objective newsman". The very fact that Keith Olbermann proclaims himself to be a "newsman" is beyond laughable. The man's so obsessed with bashing conservatism one needs only to tune in for a scant 2 minutes to find the same old drumbeat.

    Posted by: Matt at December 20, 2006 04:37 PM"

    So when you work for Fox News you are not working for a "news" media? Keith Olbermann's distinction in news media is his opinions you idiot. How dense do you have to be to not get this? MSNBC has anchors who report and they have commentators who give opinions. Fox News is the king of blending the two. Nothing could be more clear.

    Anyone who gives opinions while reporting is a commentator. Those who ask questions designed to suggest are the ones who do the most hiding of their personal opinions. Nothing wrong with that as long as you are clearly a commentator and you ask these leading type of questions in the midst of giving your biased opinions. Keith Olbermann's bias is as clear as bell. It is Fox News who are the ones constantly labeling themselves as "fair and balanced while soaking their bias with suggestive questioning and speculations."

    The Keith Olbermann show has never eluded to a claim of giving a "fair and balanced" as the theme of the show. Bill O'lielly, on the other hand, never stops calling his show "fair and balanced".

    As is the usual, all you brain dead idiots drink the cool-aid and suck up exactly the garbage spoon fed to you by Fox. You are a population of sheep with no ability to think for yourself.

    Keep trying. Your perspective when held in the light of truth is a shining example of the retarded mentality of white trash republicans who put criminals into office like Bush, Cheney and all the others booted out in the last election.

    You are an embarrassment to the flag and to democracy!

    Fred Bear said:

    "did you contact the government to let them know"?

    Kind of a naive response. Did you ever try telling the government anything? Lots of experts disagreed about the probability that Saddam still had WMDs, including the weapons inspectors themselves...and yes, they did try to tell the government what they knew.

    To top it all off, the only WMDs that Saddam was ever 'known' to have were outdated pre Gulf War 1 relics, like the gas he used on the Kurds. They were hardly a threat to us.

    "to this point, no one has provided proof that Iraq had WMD's (other than the incredibly old chemical weapons shells left over from the Iran/Iraq war that were well past their "Use By" date and had been documented extensively by the UN Inspection teams as unusable)."

    no WMDS, no imminent threat.
    precious few terrorizers.
    and no al-Qaeda.
    except for those Sadaam despised/subverted.

    -----------

    "However, conventional munitions (mortars, rockets, artillery shells, etc.) were not secured and looted by the insurgents/foreign agitators. These are the weapons we're talking about when we say the U.S. failed to secure the munitions dumps."

    nice going BushCo.
    f---ed up another one.
    just add it to the list.

    "Your perspective when held in the light of truth is a shining example of the retarded mentality of white trash republicans who put criminals into office like Bush, Cheney and all the others booted out in the last election."

    the good news is that this admin has set the far right back 20 years. at least.

    You're confusing Weapons of Mass Destruction with conventional weapons - to this point, no one has provided proof that Iraq had WMD's (other than the incredibly old chemical weapons shells left over from the Iran/Iraq war that were well past their "Use By" date and had been documented extensively by the UN Inspection teams as unusable).

    However, conventional munitions (mortars, rockets, artillery shells, etc.) were not secured and looted by the insurgents/foreign agitators. These are the weapons we're talking about when we say the U.S. failed to secure the munitions dumps.
    ===================================================
    So he was still in violation of the U.N. cease-fire agreement.

    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2889/is_n20_v31/ai_17312960
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1584/is_n9_v2/ai_11138030
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1584/is_n34_v2/ai_11403368
    (^ the second part is the most relevant)

    I know the documents are pretty cumbersome. If you want me to post the relevant statements. lmk

    "Olbermann is as far to the left as Sean Hannity is to the right and neither one should be considered a journalist. I never suggested otherwise and we weren't arguing about that so why you brought that up I'm not sure."

    I brought it up because you claim that that "other news personalities are just as or more dispectible than" Olbermann. You are wrong. One of the (many) reasons that Olby is worse is that he claims the mantle of journalistic integrity and yet even you recognize his far left bias, which is displayed on a nightly basis. Hannity makes it clear that he is a commentator, so it should not be a surprise to hear him stake out partisan positions. Olbermann's repeated claims of being non-politcial are just a farce and an affront to journalistic integrity, but for some reason, Joe you seem far more obsessed with some imagined occurences of Olby being mentioned on FNC, an event that Olby prays for, but mostly without results, much to his chagrin. If FNC mentioned or referred to Olby even 1/100th as many times as Olby goes after FNC with his petty grievances (they spelled my name wrong, waah!) and his hateful and malicious accusations (accuses BOR of "supporting Nazis"), then Olby would be in heaven. Sorry to say, it ain't happening.

    I will concede Joe that a couple of years ago BOR and other FNC personalities went toe to toe and threw Olby's verbal grenades back at him, but now they just ignore him, which is the right strategy.

    "The Nazi salute deal, which was obviously a horrible thing for Olbermann to do, WASN'T a story he covered on his show."

    The Nazi salute deal was an extension of a story he did on his show, his completely ludicrous accusations that BOR supports Nazis. Essentially, Olby was bringing his "story" to the news conference and it garnered attention in the national press (as Olby surely knew it would). So the salute did receive widespread coverage as surely as if he had made it a story on his show. It really doesn't matter whether he was in studio or not-- what matters is whether he conveyed his hateful message in such as a way as to ensure wide dissemination in the public arena and this is exactly what happened. Your comparing Olby's action in this situation to making a joke in private about something to a group of his colleagues and never presenting the story is simply false. Neither the NYPost nor Olby should have put their respective stories in front of the public, but Olby's "story" was far worse, for reasons that I explained earlier.

    I don't read the NYPost nor really care what they say about Olbermann-- there are lots of media sources that document Olby's unprincipled and lazy brand of journalism. I gave you two sources just off the top of my head when you challenged "you guys" to come up w/ a source other than FNC (which hardly ever mentions or refers to MSLSD or KO in the first place) and NYPost.

    "[I]f no one is watching him [Olbermann] and he has no affect on them [FNC] why bother with the insults, is what I don't get. . .?"

    Easy. They don't bother with insults. FNC can see, just as easily as you and I can, that MSLSD is far back in the rear view mirror, so there's no need to call attention to them, so they don't. Look, Joe, you may not realize this, but FNC is paying close attention to their bottom line and they make business decisons that are in their best interst even about the small stuff. They know that mentioning Olby and MSLSD can only benefit the other guys, so they just let Olby fume and pout and just leave it at that. Whatever you infer when Olby and MSLSD are never mentioned on FNC doesn't change the fact that Olby and MSLSD are ignored, much as they hate it.

    "Olbermann is as far to the left as Sean Hannity is to the right and neither one should be considered a journalist. I never suggested otherwise and we weren't arguing about that so why you brought that up I'm not sure."

    I brought it up because you claim that that "other news personalities are just as or more dispectible than" Olbermann. You are wrong. One of the (many) reasons that Olby is worse is that he claims the mantle of journalistic integrity and yet even you recognize his far left bias, which is displayed on a nightly basis. Hannity makes it clear that he is a commentator, so it should not be a surprise to hear him stake out partisan positions. Olbermann's repeated claims of being non-politcial are just a farce and an affront to journalistic integrity, but for some reason, Joe you seem far more obsessed with some imagined occurences of Olby being mentioned on FNC, an event that Olby prays for, but mostly without results, much to his chagrin. If FNC mentioned or referred to Olby even 1/100th as many times as Olby goes after FNC with his petty grievances (they spelled my name wrong, waah!) and his hateful and malicious accusations (accuses BOR of "supporting Nazis"), then Olby would be in heaven. Sorry to say, it ain't happening.

    I will concede Joe that a couple of years ago BOR and other FNC personalities went toe to toe and threw Olby's verbal grenades back at him, but now they just ignore him, which is the right strategy.

    "The Nazi salute deal, which was obviously a horrible thing for Olbermann to do, WASN'T a story he covered on his show."

    The Nazi salute deal was an extension of a story he did on his show, his completely ludicrous accusations that BOR supports Nazis. Essentially, Olby was bringing his "story" to the news conference and it garnered attention in the national press (as Olby surely knew it would). So the salute did receive widespread coverage as surely as if he had made it a story on his show. It really doesn't matter whether he was in studio or not-- what matters is whether he conveyed his hateful message in such as a way as to ensure wide dissemination in the public arena and this is exactly what happened. Your comparing Olby's action in this situation to making a joke in private about something to a group of his colleagues and never presenting the story is simply false. Neither the NYPost nor Olby should have put their respective stories in front of the public, but Olby's "story" was far worse, for reasons that I explained earlier.

    I don't read the NYPost nor really care what they say about Olbermann-- there are lots of media sources that document Olby's unprincipled and lazy brand of journalism. I gave you two sources just off the top of my head when you challenged "you guys" to come up w/ a source other than FNC (which hardly ever mentions or refers to MSLSD or KO in the first place) and NYPost.

    "[I]f no one is watching him [Olbermann] and he has no affect on them [FNC] why bother with the insults, is what I don't get. . .?"

    Easy. They don't bother with insults. FNC can see, just as easily as you and I can, that MSLSD is far back in the rear view mirror, so there's no need to call attention to them, so they don't. Look, Joe, you may not realize this, but FNC is paying close attention to their bottom line and they make business decisons that are in their best interst even about the small stuff. They know that mentioning Olby and MSLSD can only benefit the other guys, so they just let Olby fume and pout and just leave it at that. Whatever you infer when Olby and MSLSD are never mentioned on FNC doesn't change the fact that Olby and MSLSD are ignored, much as they hate it.

    "So he was still in violation of the U.N. cease-fire agreement."

    but hardly an imminent threat.
    in fact, he was nicely contained.
    until you jokers f---ed things up but good.
    and jeopardized the war on terror as well.
    while damaging the military.
    for one trillion dollars.
    and 3K needlessly dead.

    Coward Watch opined "MSNBC has anchors who report and they have commentators who give opinions. Fox News is the king of blending the two. Nothing could be more clear."

    And yes, Fox News clearly labels their programs as News and Opinion. Countdown with Keith Olbermann is billed by MSNBC as a NEWS SHOW, not a news and commentary show. Olbermann has said over and over and over again (lying) that he is not biased, that he does not lean politically towards any party, etc.

    So when was the last time you heard of Olby kicking up his heels at parties with any Republicans?

    When was the last time you heard him or MSNBC describe his show as news AND OPINION? At least Fox News has the decency to correctly label themselves which is more than Olbermann even has the balls to admit to, he's still trying to claim he's not biased. My ass.

    "So he was still in violation of the U.N. cease-fire agreement."

    but hardly an imminent threat.
    in fact, he was nicely contained.
    until you jokers f---ed things up but good.
    and jeopardized the war on terror as well.
    while damaging the military.
    for one trillion dollars.
    and 3K needlessly dead.


    Posted by: Anonymous at December 20, 2006 06:10 PM

    Goes to show how useless the UN is. Maybe the UN could do something about Sudan. Not that any country listens to the UN. The UN is an organization full of empty threats. Iran openly laughs at the threat of any sanctions from the UN.

    To Anon above concerning the UN comment; Whats your point?

    Hank:

    It seems our debate is basically coming down to who we think is worse, Olbermann or some of the FNC crew. I'm thinking we will have to have an agree to disagree conclusion to this. You say FNC ignores Olbermann, I'm not seeing that. I'll admit Olbermann mentions Fox much more than anyone from Fox takes shots at him, but he at least backs his comments up with an actual quote and then gives his opinion. Fox should either ignore him completely, or defend their remarks that Olbermann has challenged. Instead they (admittedly only occasionally) make a smartass remark about ratings or jealousy, which in my opinion is more petty than Olbermann's (also petty but to a lesser extent) shots. Of course, Olbermann, as I said, takes his shots much more frequently, so I suppose one could argue that he is the saddest of the bunch for being so fixated on Fox. While I can understand that logic that's not my personal opinion.

    Also, as I said earlier, I agree Olbermann lies about not being biased, but I don't see why when someone like Hannity admits he is biased it makes him any more credible. I've noticed Hannity contridicting himself and conveniently leaving out facts when telling a story many times, does the fact that he is an admitted conservative make that ok? I've also heard O'Reilly claim he isn't biased several times, most recently on his Oprah appearance. He also made the same claim on The Daily Show. I'm sure you will agree O'Reilly absolutely does report from the right. He does indeed have liberal guests on his show to debate with, which I think is great, but tht doesn't change the fact he also lied everytime he said he's not biased.

    I had one more point that I was going to conclude this little spiel on, but now I forget what it was, I must be losing interest in this. In any case, my opinions of Fox and Olbermann haven't changed (and for the record I watch FNC fairly regularly and rarely watch anything on MSNBC - CNN is my main news channel) and I'm sure yours haven't either, so as I said above we might as well agree to disagree and end this with at least a little maturity. But that's how I feel about all this.

    ..."Olbermann's (also petty but to a lesser extent) shot"...
    Weak analogy! Worst Person In The World is not a petty shot.
    Its grandstanding and the mark of a loser.

    "CNN is my main news channel) and I'm sure yours haven't either, so as I said above we might as well agree to disagree and end this with at least a little maturity. But that's how I feel about all this. Posted by: Joe Sampson at December 20, 2006 07:07 PM"


    Hey Joe, "maturity" has nothing to do with it. CNN is the worst of all of them, it pretends to be left of middle making it very effective in promoting the bigger more important policies of a government that is actively crushing the middle class and dumbing down America. Fox takes care of the more uneducated hillbillies and CNN sways the core population of the middle of the roaders who like to pretend they are open minded.

    Nothing worse than a pretentious self worshipping fat show-me-the-money college educated American that pretends to be progressive while living in the same world of pretend as the far right nut jobs.

    There are no television news sources in this nation that are not bought and paid for by the richest of the rich to serve the same. CNN has played an equal role in dumbing down this nation as Fox News and Beavis and Butthead.

    "Nothing worse than a pretentious self worshipping fat show-me-the-money college educated American that pretends to be progressive while living in the same world of pretend as the far right nut jobs."


    Actually, a silly reconstructed marxist twit is much worse.

    "Actually, a silly reconstructed marxist twit is much worse.

    Posted by: Cecelia at December 20, 2006 07:50 PM"

    You dare respond to me? A coward like you?

    How predictable that would equate Marxism with anyone who thinks CNN and Fox are 2 hands of the same body.

    I notice the absence of a clarification or justification for your use of "Marxist".

    You are here for one purpose - to prey on those you see as vulnerable to your ignorant style of argument. Clearly I have never been one of those so we all can expect you will not take this much farther in this thread. I yawn at your fluff!

    "I yawn at your fluff!"

    In three paragraphs...


    "Olbermann has said over and over and over again (lying) that he is not biased, that he does not lean politically towards any party, etc. Posted by: Keith's a fraud at December 20, 2006 06:12 PM"


    A creation in your own mind. I say you just made this up.

    The act Keith Olbermann commenting about Bush's Iraq policy on a daily basis would indeed get him invited to a lot of democratic social gatherings and conversely uninvited to Republican ones.

    The fact that you conveniently left out Bill O'lielly's daily use of "fair and balanced" speaks volumes to that which you are ducking. Again - Olbermann's show has nothing to do with fair and balanced, he is clearly not a fan of the criminal regime that the voters just booted out of the house and senate and not a fan of the Bush crime family that 70% of Americans also disapprove of.

    What is that you don't get? The Republicans and the Iraqi fiasco are an outrage and Keith Olbermann is merely a voice of that outrage. Are confused about this?

    Bill O'lielly uses the slogan - "fair and balanced" not Keith Olbermann. Your wanting to pretend it is the other way around is beyond laughable - it is delusional!

    You're an idiot and it shows.

    Krazy Keith LAST again in the ratings yesterday Tuesday 12/19/06!!!

    I smell a pay-CUT for the Tan-orange-fat-ass-man.........hehehehehehehehehhe...lol!!!!

    "Well, there's always the all-purpose line for idiots which passes for argument in a certain circle around here:
    How can you complain about Olbermann lying when Bush lied about Iraq, man...
    How can you complain about Olbermann being biased when there's Fox News, man...
    How can you....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Posted by: Cecelia at December 20, 2006 12:53 PM"

    Note the lack of a neck being stuck out here. Any form of articulation about the bigger picture of this "certain circle" other than Cecelia's denial of being effected by it? Nope, just short quips about the repetitious nature of the discussion.

    But Cecelia pretends it is a one sided thing as though those detractors of Mr. Olbermann are some how not constantly holding MSNBC and Mr. Olbermann up to Fox News and their Bill O'lielly.

    Clearly one more delusion about the environment Cecelia finds him/herself trolling in and equally delusional the role he/she plays in it!

    Typical nature of a coward.

    Keith's a Fraud accurately stated:

    "Olbermann has said over and over and over again (lying) that he is not biased, that he does not lean politically towards any party . . ."

    Coward Watch, the marxist twit, responded:

    "A creation in your own mind. I say you just made this up."

    OK, CW, here are the goods from your Orange Hero's own mouth:

    From the November 30, 2004 U.S.C. Annenberg School of Journalism, Online Journalism Review. This if from a KO interview with Michael Glaser of OJR:

    OJR: How would you describe yourself politically on the liberal-to-conservative spectrum?
    KO: I'm not political. I don't vote. . . I have no more interest in the political outcome of an election than I did in the winner or loser of any ballgame I ever covered.

    http://www.ojr.org/ojr/stories/041130glaser/index.cfm

    Do yo know how long it took me to find this information, CW? About 10 seconds because I posted it yesterday in this very same thread, which you could have found too .


    Or maybe, CW, you haven't bothered to visit the MSLSD website to see how Meltdown is described before ignorantly claiming that Olby makes no claim to objectivity:

    "Keith Olbermann is host of “Countdown with Keith Olbermann.” “Countdown,”is a unique newscast that counts down the day’s top stories with Keith’s particular wit and style, telecasts weeknights, 8-9 p.m. ET on MSNBC."

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080446/

    Notice the word "newscast", CW? That means that MSLSD wants you to believe that Olby is merely presenting the news rather than the far left fringe cheerleader that people of your ilk flock to.

    hen is the last time that Olby permitted a dissenting viewpoint as is the regular practice of BOR, Hannity, et.al.

    I'll tell you what the typical nature of CowardWatch is: deny the facts.

    There is absolutely no denying that Olbermann is biased, except of course in the minds of Olbyloons who think he's the frigging reincarnation of Edward R. Murrow.

    Olbermann wouldn't go to a GOP event if invited because he's not a Republican. He's a Democratic ass-kisser. And he lies his fat ass off in interviews when he claims he's not biased and you're apparently so willing to be lied to that you don't even mind and are dumb enough to believe him.

    And let's talk about Pot Meets Kettle here. One more time, for the hearing impaired and the brain-damaged: Fox News labels their programs as opinion shows. Edward R. Olbermann does not. He's still trying to insist he's running a NEWS program, even though he doesn't cover stories that are damaging to Democrats or that would piss off his liberal fans. He refuses to have any guest on that doesn't mimic his opinion on issues. And that Cowardwatch means one thing and one thing only: he's not running a news show.

    I don't even like Fox News and have grown completely weary with the Olbyloon standard defense of, "But Fox News does. . . " or "But Bill O'Reilly & Hannity are..." Yeah and? Is the name of this site Foxwatch? Is it O'Reilly Watch? Is it Hannity Watch? Hell NO. It's Olbermannwatch and apparently your reading comprehension skills are as pathetic as your logic/reasoning skills.

    And one more time, even though I don't watch Fox (or wouldn't for that matter), their primetime programs aren't labeled as News. Olbermann's is and that's my beef with him. Other than the fact that he has decided to whore himself out to the liberals and completely ruin what was once a pretty darn good television show.

    "Krazy Keith LAST again in the ratings yesterday Tuesday 12/19/06!!!"

    For a night in which he RERAN his "Best of Oddball". Excuse me while I laugh - at least TRY to follow that KO is off the next two weeks (as is blared in big letters on the OWatch front page).

    Coward Watch:

    Umm.. what?

    I was talking to someone speceific about ending an argument we were having maturely... I never said CNN is what mature people watch or that CNN has no biases or any of the other nonesense you just brought up for no apparent reason.

    I'm not getting into another debate on this board, I'm just confused as to what you're talking about right now. You addressed me specifically and then attacked CNN as if I have been defending them, which I wasn't. If for some reason it bothers you that I watch CNN, well, that's a shame, and very weird. So deal with it.

    "But Cecelia pretends it is a one sided thing as though those detractors of Mr. Olbermann are some how not constantly holding MSNBC and Mr. Olbermann up to Fox News and their Bill O'lielly."


    I suppose it goes with the territory that anyone who uses the term "Bill O'Lielly" MUST see some sort of "constant" (overt or implied) comparision between belle noir FNC/Billy O. and Keith Olbermann in any criticism criticism of the latter.

    I yawn at you, Fluffy...

    Cecelia, how long do you think it will take Bob to reach the magic number of 1600 exgenerals disagree with Bush? At which point, no doubt, he will declare Pelosi president.

    Grammie

    Grammie,

    "Reality" ain't what it used to be...

    Oh my God! Thanks Johnny! I'm now going to have to agree with the Tin Foil Hat crowd now! Sort of.

    Mike Gallagher is no prominet national broadcaster. So he gets to do fill in's and weekend work at Fox News, his radio show is pretty much on at 2a.m. Or for an hour or so on the weekend. Not exactly what we would call drive time. And this is a guy who at one time had the drive time morning slot on W.A.B.C. in New York.

    I sometimes suspect Mr Gallagher's motives. Like the time he said he would give an hour of his radio show to that wacko church group that go's around protesting Service persons funnerals. I do believe that one instance was about the amish children shooting. I do think Mr. Gallagher is a commited conservative, I also think he is one that is a bit full of himself. $49.95 for a premium Mike Gallagher Website? Bill O'Reilly charges that much. Mike ain't no Bill! No doubt the man suffers from Steve Malzberg syndrome. To which the last time I looked isn't Steve down to one minute Jets pre- game updates?

    The one thing I'm sure is Mr. Gallagher and Olby have is this fantasy that they think they are both better than Bill O'Reilly. When, If we put both of them on at the same time on the same show they would not be able to draw a million. viewers. Thats the fact Jack!!!!

    Johnny let's relize if you put 15,000 people in an Arena and asked them if they knew Mike Gallagher or Olby you would think the arena was suddenly invaded by owls!

    Oh and for you mental cases under the tin foil hats that say the republican party is the Nazi party, then what's up with Jay Rockefeller DEMOCRAT making threats against The President of Exxon-Mobil for funding scientists who have a different view on Global Warming? The same Jay Rockefeller that in the 90's tried to push through legislation to get the second amendment banned. The same Jay Rockefeller that owns guns and inherited millions from his family's oil stock options. But he loves to lead around the sheep herd doesn't he? Democrats all for you're freedoms, and free speech! Yeah right!

    Gallagher is down in Texas right now helping farmers that are being sued by the Mexican Govt.( where's Neil Young and Willie Nelson?) Great guy! commited human being! But he's Mike Gallagher. Some guy that comes on Fox and shakes his dopey head and go's Blah, Blah, Blah!

    Olby? a guy getting paid one million dollars a year to read a telepropter. And if he does try to reach, he says something stupid and the only thing that saves him is that he spews the daily blue blog reports, Thats it! And like I said before if Fox News waved Four Million dollars under Olby's nose he would become the biggest phony conservative convert since Mancow!

    Let's put this whole thing to rest right now! Johnny what you should do is make up two graphs for the time Olby has been on the air. One should be demo viewers. The other total viewers. Put Bill and Paula and HeadlineNews and CNBC. Run the lines across, this is what the bean counters at NBC corperate will look at, and you know what? He ain't gettin no million! And where's he gona go? Sixty Minutes? 20/20? The guy is a telepropter reader that has a bunch of sheep following him. He's this years Les Nessman. No wait! Les Nessman laughs at Olby! Olby would screw up a live broadcast of a Turkey Drop at the local supermarket!

    Johnny,

    I know you aren't our "research slave" (there is certain excitement generated in the thought, though...) but if you have the time please link the interviews in which Olbermann has declared himself "nonpolitical" and nonpartisan....(one such claimed based on the fact that he doesn't vote!)

    Cecelia, ain't it the truth.

    Please, don't try to make sense of Coward's rants or his raves. I am convinced the mental gymnastics required could be harmful to your health.

    Grammie

    Cecelia

    Here's one:

    http://www.ojr.org/ojr/stories/041130glaser/index.cfm

    Here's another from the C- Span interview with Brian Lamb:

    "And whatever I had to do about it, I tried to be fair and honest and as accurate and as informed as possible, and allow my viewer to be the same way. And nowadays it’s the same thing."

    http://www.q-and-a.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1067

    "Notice the word "newscast", CW? That means that MSLSD wants you to believe that Olby is merely presenting the news rather than the far left fringe cheerleader that people of your ilk flock to. (w)hen (was)is the last time that Olby permitted a dissenting viewpoint as is the regular practice of BOR, Hannity, et.al.
    Posted by: hank at December 20, 2006 08:43 PM"

    Oh boy are you ever impressed with yourself for finding a quote.

    Again I will say to you that Keith Olbermann makes no claim to be fair or balanced. Keith Olbermann is the voice of outrage at Republicans simply because they were the ones holding all political power for the last 6 years. Do we really have to go through the whole nine yards of scandal each day as though you and your ilk are Bill Murry in Ground Hog Day?

    And as for the coward Sean Hannity, or the bigger coward, Bill O'lielly having guests on, all their guests get is cut off and shouted down. What a joke that you would suggest that these two Fox News whores would ever have on an opposing guest view point and ever let them have equal time.

    Fox News is such an anti democracy propagandist cesspool of ignorance that anyone who defends it is in my book anti-American and anti-democracy.

    Your perspective is right in line with the so-called "fair and balanced" nature of Fox.

    At least Keith Olbermann is not a coward and takes a stand against the most powerful people on this planet. At least he cares about the people whose lives have been torn apart by the failed foreign policy of the criminal republican party.

    Your trivial drivel about who used what words and how long it took you look something up about what Keith Olberman said, is so vile. Tell me the last time you posted anything about the plight of the families of American GI's serving and dying in Iraq. How about the number of dead in Iraq to date? Answer is never, simply because you and your ilk are brain dead and brain washed by the garbage of television and have little of your humanity left in you. A bunch of sissy cowards incapable of acknowledging the hell and horror you defend with your trivial trash on this page.

    You are an embarrassment to freedom and democracy!

    Now who else here thinks they have a leg to stand on against me? I dare you.

    f---ing cowards!

    "At least Keith Olbermann is not a coward and takes a stand against the most powerful people on this planet. At least he cares about the people whose lives have been torn apart by the failed foreign policy of the criminal republican party."

    No inherent assumptions here, folks... Olbermann isn't partisan, he's RIGHT. How's THAT for logic.

    That Olbermann could be what Coward terms as "right" AND allow Republican "criminals" on the air to defend themselves and/or their party against the latest accusation leveled against them by Olbermann...as Matthews, Hannity, Blitzer, Cooper, O'Reilly, etc... allow, doesn't even occur to our einstein here....

    Thanks, Hank!

    "Cecelia, ain't it the truth.
    Please, don't try to make sense of Coward's rants or his raves. I am convinced the mental gymnastics required could be harmful to your health.
    Grammie
    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at December 20, 2006 09:17 PM"

    Yea that's it group up and form a line. Strength in numbers may be the only strength you will muster against me. The easier to shoot down your short empty quips.

    Show me the meat and mash potatoes of your humanity. Tell me what it feels like to be the child this Christmas whose father died needlessly in Iraq while Bush and Cheney eat turkey off sliver platters. Tell me how wonderful it is to be you and to be so dead inside that you can pay no attention to the horrors your beloved president has so masterfully concocted in Iraq. Tell me how can pretend their are not thousands of children suffering from the people whose policies you so ignorantly defend!

    Here I stand making no alliances to group with anyone, yet you all actively form a line and march offto fight your delusional demons.

    The only evil in this world to fight is your ignorance. Show me you intellectual prowess and dare to stand up to someone who knows what it means to be something other than a coward!


    "Show me you intellectual prowess and dare to stand up to someone who knows what it means to be something other than a coward!"

    You're such putz.


    Honestly, you're really too stupid to respond to. You read actual quotes he's given where he denies he's biased, where he talks about being fair, not politically motivated and you still want us to believe he's never said that? Are you stupid? Bad at reading comprehension or just nuts?

    Olbermann is biased. He's running a NEWS show that is really an opinion show but is failed to be labeled as such.

    "That Olbermann could be what Coward terms as "right" AND allow Republican "criminals" on the air to defend themselves and/or their party against the latest accusation leveled against them by Olbermann...as Matthews, Hannity, Blitzer, Cooper, O'Reilly, etc... allow, doesn't even occur to our einstein here....
    Posted by: Cecelia at December 20, 2006 09:34 PM"


    This is your last chance Cecelia, you have yet to take a stand on any issue you merely muddle the discourse with trivial attention to details of a television shows.

    Last time I will say it, Keith Olbermann's show is not about anything but Keith Olbermann's outrage.

    Are you so stupid that you don't get this? MSNBC wants it that way. They like the idea that fools like you pay attention to the format as original, as you so eloquently point out with your long list of "news" people who all use the same format. Good work, you get a little red star on your piece. Now let's see if you can say something of substance rather than go on with your drivel like you did in your thread with Dave about the meaning of irony. God are you an empty excuse for a human being!

    And do you ever notice how, when presented with evidence, as in the form of Olbermann's own words, they respond with something about Iraq, Bush, the War, blah blah blah blah. We get it. You thought the war was wrong. You hate Bush. You hate anyone who's ever voted for a Republican. You hate Republicans. You hate the world itself. But that doesn't change what Olbermann himself has said or the fact he's every bit the liar you seem to think George Bush is.

    "This is your last chance Cecelia, you have yet to take a stand on any issue you merely muddle the discourse with trivial attention to details of a television shows."

    ummmmm...last I looked the name of this blog was Olbermann Watch, einstein... In other words it's a blog that exists for the purpose of venting Bob Cox's outrage against Olbermann and his television show Countdown.

    Just think, if Bob was Keith Olbermann, people like you who differed with him wouldn't be able to post here at all.

    How's THAT for irony...

    Irony is lost on them Cecelia. So are things like common sense, logic, reasoning, the name and purpose of this blog.

    The name Dr. Lapdog, which stands for how Cee is a lapdog for Bush and his administration obviously doesn't go far enough!

    I challenged him to respond to Bush saying one thing in October and the total opposite yesterday.
    He tried to wiggle out of it by focusing in on a Wapo article, and the good news in Iraq.
    It looks like Lapdog and Bush have lost touch with reality.

    Tonight on Scarborough Country, Joe Scarborough, former GOP Congressmen made almost the same comment and challenge to his guests that I did today to the right wingers on here....but he even went a step further....

    He said, "What would the republicans have done if Bill Clinton wanted to use more troops in a war, where only 12% of America agreed with him,and his admirals, generals and Joint Chiefs were against it?
    All three of his guests and Joe agreed, the Republicans would be demanding impeachment proceedings immediately !They would be going absolutely nuts !

    Now think about that for a moment.

    This site would have been burning up calling for Clinton's head.

    So where are all the republicans now ?
    Since it is a republican president, isn't it the utmost in hypocrisy to not condemning Bush now ?

    Now think about what has transpired.

    On October 25, 2006, George W. Bush said "We are ABSOLUTELY WINNING THE WAR IN IRAQ."

    They showed the video of Bush saying it on the show tonite.

    Yesterday, Bush said," We are not winning the war in Iraq".

    Dr. LApdog's assessment was "The Post characterized it as a "reversal," and I did not see the term "contradiction."

    Who the f--- cares what the Post said ?
    Does it really matter?
    Use your own frigging brain !

    Even calling this a contradiction is whitewashing this issue !

    HOw did we go from winning the war on October 25 to not winning the war on December 18th?

    Can anyone answer this question ?

    NO wonder Dr. Lapdog wouldn't touch this issue.
    It spoke volumes of his integrity and searching for the truth!
    It proved he has neither !

    The panelists on the show were saying they were "spooked", "alarmed" blown away by this president.
    Other comments were that "he is in total denial" , "The president probably couldn't explain to you tonite what he said today".

    Now one more point.
    Bush has always said," I will listen to the generals on the ground and I will heed their advice."
    Now the generals are telling him that bringing more troops into Iraq will result in more death of our troops and more of them being captured.

    For the past 3 years as the generals, conservatives alike were calling for more troops, Bush wouldn't budge.Now that Bush is calling for more troops, they are saying it's too late.That the moment has passed.

    This is a tragic situation. One of the panelists say it might be time to releave the commander in chief of his command.

    If the shoe was on the other foot, all of you Olbermann haters and Bush lovers would be calling for Clinton's head.
    But I don't hear a peep out of you, since it is a republican president that has lost touch with reality and continuing to make bad decisions and contradict himself almost on a daily basis....while more troops continue to die every day in a civil war that they find themselves caught directly in the middle.

    OK guys. Coward has finally convinced me that he is a true bigger than life hero.

    The courage of one lonely little voice skipping through the ether to take a stand against two itty bitty mousekins and a couple of guys who conspire to disagree with him is awe inspiring!!!

    With all our inside pull with Karl OoOoOoOoOo Rove do you think we could get GWB to award him a Congressional Medal of Honor? Such heroism should not pass by unnoticed.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Brandon,

    Oh, well, with normal people you could go your whole life and never experience the sort of high dudgeon it must take to call someone "an empty excuse for a human being" over a spat encapulated in five blogboard posts... :D

    These folks are a blast!

    For those of you who like short posts, please answer this question: How did we go from winning the war on October 25 to not winning the war on December 18th?

    This is the assessment and words of our president, George W. Bush !

    I'd really like to know the answer to that question.

    "And do you ever notice how, when presented with evidence, as in the form of Olbermann's own words, they respond with something about Iraq, Bush, the War, blah blah blah blah. We get it. You thought the war was wrong. You hate Bush. You hate anyone who's ever voted for a Republican. You hate Republicans. You hate the world itself. But that doesn't change what Olbermann himself has said or the fact he's every bit the liar you seem to think George Bush is.
    Posted by: Keith's a Coward at December 20, 2006 09:46 PM"

    Keith Olbermann and "evidence" and Bush being a "liar".

    Olbermann is not to be equated with the leader of the free world, yet you foolishly do it here in your desperate attempt to hold your head above water as I dunk you once more.

    The only evidence I want from you is evidence that you are contributing anything significant to our democracy. Tell me how you are torn up over children dying in a civil war started by your nation dissolving the government and military of one of the most long living rivalries of any culture on this planet. Tell me how Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz were not the ones who thought all this up and then hand picked Bush the retard as their puppet to carry out this grand plan and how they openly said they wanted their "Pearl Harbor" so they could grab Iraq.

    You and your cohorts here are trivial little idiots that contribute nothing but drivel and nonsense about "what Keith said..."

    Total idiots!

    "Brandon,

    Oh, well, with normal people you could go your whole life and never experience the sort of high dudgeon it must take to call someone "an empty excuse for a human being" over a spat encapulated in five blogboard posts... :D
    These folks are a blast!
    Posted by: Cecelia at December 20, 2006 10:14 PM"

    Tell me about the children.

    You tell me about the children I may have a reason to not call a "poor excuse for human being."

    What you are all about is what all cowards are all about - strength in numbers. You envy people like me who have normal core human values and those values alone are all that is needed to take a stand - and take that stand alone if need be. Yet empty cowards like you and yours focus on backing each other up and letting your detractors know full well that you stand with a group as though that is your strength. It is your weakness!

    Typical Klan mentality. Coward mentality.

    Me? I slam each and every one of you ignorant cowards who think only of conquest of argument as the salvation for your fear of a world you take no active part in. Shut ins with no soul, no humanity. Just plain and simple cowards.

    Tell me about the children.

    Bob, what is this obsession with wanting the whole world to agree with you?

    Can't you be content with 1600 scientists, KO, panelists, 1600 generals, the loony left and your Republican friends who have converted.

    How insecure can one man be in his beliefs if he demands vindication from the whole world.

    Grow up, man. History is replete with vast majorities and all the experts being dead wrong. It is also replete with vast majorities and all the experts being dead on right.

    Trying to persuade others is fine. Demanding agreement and gratuitously insulting others is childish and invites contempt. And you have a full measure from me.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Here I will do it for you. You don't seem to have the guts to do it on your own.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-US&q=children+of+Iraq
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=children+of+veterans+of+Iraq&spell=1

    "Tell me about the children"

    Sure. They taste great with hot sauce.

    "What you are all about is what all cowards are all about - strength in numbers. You envy people like me who have normal core human values and those values alone are all that is needed to take a stand - and take that stand alone if need be."

    Anyone who talks about the audiences of CNN and Fox News (that would encompass a large percentage of the population) with the sort of hyperbolic alienated rhetoric that you use, is likely to be taken less than seriously when they then make self-proclaimations about having "normal core human values"...

    I see Grammie would rather pontificate than answer a simple question.

    World agree with me ?

    Actually, I couldn't care if anyone ever agreed with me.

    But in truth, 80% of America agrees with me on the War in Iraq.

    But for some reason ( probably too painful for you to deal with) I see that this current monster of a situation of what the president has said, you continue to ignore.

    In cased you missed it, it's a very simple question:
    How did we go from ABSOLUTELY winning the war in iraq on October 25 to not winning it on December 18th?

    Since this is the asessment of the president you stand behind, maybe you can enlighten us to the answer !

    Coward Watch,

    You escaped from the asylum. There's an APB for you. They're coming to take you away, they are, they're coming to take you away! Again!

    Coward Watch: You seem to be more angry than usual. Perhaps it's because we keep posting those quotes from interviews with your boyfriend Olby that show him to be a liar. Or maybe you're just a bitterly unhappy person in general. But you seem more so than usual. They say the Holidays either brings out the best or the worst in people. I guess we know which it is in your case. At any rate, I see you've decided to drop the whole, "Keith's never said he's not biased." routine and are now trying to change the subject. How predictable.

    "Coward Watch,
    You escaped from the asylum. There's an APB for you. They're coming to take you away, they are, they're coming to take you away! Again!
    Posted by: Rico at December 20, 2006 10:38 PM"

    Ask for commentary about the children effected by Bushes adventure in Iraq and what do you get? You sophomoric morons like this from the peanut gallery commenting in the usual manner. Typical of what you would expect from a pea brain. No ability, no desire to be empathetic to those most effected by the policies that Fox News pushes for the Republicans that brought us hundreds of thousands dead in Iraq and tens of thousands of American children with no father this Christmas.

    Probably Christian no doubt.

    Bob, pontificating is so much more fun and a lot easier than marshalling ones thoughts and composing a reasoned answer or explanation of ones position.

    And with some of you its not worth the effort because you go on based on everything but the answer I give. Since you ignore the response and proceed based on your revision liberally sprinkled with personal insults, why bother?

    I'm sure you will eventually get around to telling me what my response is. Or what character or moral defect causes me to be so stupid and so evil.

    Thanks, but no thanks. I'll save my responses for reasonable people.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Coward Watch: You seem to be more angry than usual. Perhaps it's because we keep posting those quotes from interviews with your boyfriend Olby that show him to be a liar. Or maybe you're just a bitterly unhappy person in general. But you seem more so than usual. They say the Holidays either brings out the best or the worst in people. I guess we know which it is in your case. At any rate, I see you've decided to drop the whole, "Keith's never said he's not biased." routine and are now trying to change the subject. How predictable.
    Posted by: Brandon at December 20, 2006 10:47 PM"


    And I suppose you think you control the subject here? Or would that be you and the rest who trade barbs with me.

    I rarely watch Mr. Olbermann, I know what he is all about and why MSNBC keeps such a unique yet not so profitable show on the air.

    You can pretend you are here because of your convictions about a guy on TV that you and yours work over time to portrait as insignificant. We all know it is about getting online and to form and join alliances and then do battle. About the same as video games I guess. Never play them either.

    I am here not to take you for what you pretend to be but for what you are really here for. You are here in a feeble attempt to compensate for being a coward, a shut in that pisses on democracy and the democratic process simply because you know you feel less than the rest of us who fight for it. A loosing way for you to win at anything - attack it because you are not willing to fight for it.

    All you need do is attack a man who represents freedom of speech, KO, and you have made your declaration of war on democracy.

    This alone is why I am here. I love democracy and was raised by parents who taught me to fight for it. Fascists like you are a natural draw for patriots like me!

    Gee, guys, Coward seemed calmed down to me. Or maybe its just the novelty of his new kick. At least he's off the Klan, waitresses at Denny's and the shortcomings of our mothers.

    It must be the stress and strain of ferreting out all those cowards in the world and slaying them with his mighty pen and righteous anger. And all by himself. I'm sure I would crack under that kind of pressure.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Oct. 25th presser:

    "Bush: Defeat will only come if the United States becomes isolationist and refuses to, one, protect ourselves, and, two, help those who desire to become -- to live in a moderate, peaceful world. And it's a hard struggle, no question about it. And it's a different struggle.

    Q Are we winning?

    THE PRESIDENT: Absolutely, we're winning. Al Qaeda is on the run. As a matter of fact, the mastermind, or the people who they think is the mastermind of the September the 11th attacks is in our custody. We've now got a procedure for this person to go on trial, to be held for his account. Most of al Qaeda that planned the attacks on September the 11th have been brought to justice.

    Extremists have now played their hand; the world can clearly see their ambitions. You know, when a Palestinian state began to show progress, extremists attacked Israel to stop the advance of a Palestinian state. They can't stand democracies. Extremists and radicals want to undermine fragile democracy because it's a defeat for their way of life, their ideology."

    So on 10/25 Bush claims we're winning the war on terror and then later in an interview on 12/18 he agrees with the assessment that we are currently "not winning and not losing" in Iraq.

    and THAT is Bob's "gotcha"?!

    Lord knows there's plenty of reasons for folks to hate the war without indulging in this sort of nonsense.

    "And with some of you its not worth the effort because you go on based on everything but the answer I give. Since you ignore the response and proceed based on your revision liberally sprinkled with personal insults, why bother?

    I'm sure you will eventually get around to telling me what my response is. Or what character or moral defect causes me to be so stupid and so evil."


    There you go again....all I asked was for an answer to a simple question.
    You appear to be unable to respond to a question about a president now in a full fledged bunker mentality, showing signs of delusional behavior.
    Or maybe you haven't noticed or have to avert your eyes to the tragedy that is unfolding right before all of our eyes.

    My only concern is what's best for our country, while you continue to masturbate with your word games.

    If this was a Democratic president saying these things, you'd be all over him like a cheap suit.But since it's YOUR BOY,you don't want to comment.

    My question is still hanging out there , and the fact that it goes unanswered by ANYONE on the right speaks volumes.


    Coward Watch,

    Everybody knows you were diagnosed with Tourette's Syndrome. But that is just a polite way of saying Demon possession. Get help.

    "All you need do is attack a man who represents freedom of speech, KO, and you have made your declaration of war on democracy.

    This alone is why I am here. I love democracy and was raised by parents who taught me to fight for it. Fascists like you are a natural draw for patriots like me!"

    So Coward's gone from arguing that discussion of Olbermann and his show (on a blogboard created for just that, no less) is a distraction from the true ills of society to now avering that criticising Olbermann is tantamount to declaring war on democracy...

    Who knew! :D


    Is it just me or does Coward seem to have a conspiracy theory/persecution complex?

    "We all know it is about getting online and to form and join alliances and then do battle."

    I guess this is the part where I could point out that HE/SHE/IT is online so doesn't that mean they're part of our super-secret alliance?

    And patriot? Let me guess. You think you're superman too don't you? Okay so I've identified about half-a-dozen mental illnesses going on with Coward and any one of them is enough to land him in a nut house. Hey, maybe that's where Olby is "vacationing" this week. Why don't you see if you can go join him Coward?

    "Coward Watch,

    Everybody knows you were diagnosed with Tourette's Syndrome. But that is just a polite way of saying Demon possession. Get help.
    Posted by: Rico at December 20, 2006 11:14 PM"

    Another comment meant to drum up static from the peanut gallery. Perfect example of a person who keeps a constant finger on the "group" button out of fear of standing alone.

    I have no clue what it is like to be such a coward. Where is the depth of such a person?

    Tell me about the children.

    I have never seen Olby and Coward Watch in the same room together at the same time. One wonders?

    See, Bob, I was right. You gave my answer and included a personal insult.

    Can I call em or what!

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    You know what's important to me? The integrity of journalism. And Olbermann sullies that with his opinion disgused as news show. And you idiots are trying to turn him into a modern-day Edward R. Murrow becuase you like what he's saying. Never mind he's so biased it's not funny and he denies it in every interview, never mind he's never ventured into the field unless it was a baseball field, and never mind he actually doesn't interview anyone he doesn't agree with or more correctly who doesn't agree with him like the real Murrow actually did.

    Coward Watch,

    You mean the children that the Iranian and Syrian backed "insurgents" are killing? Yeah, I am enraged at the insurgents. But you are not. You can only be mad at Republicans, conservatives, and Christians. You think they are responsible for all of the evil in the world, making you a morally warped individual.

    and THAT is Bob's "gotcha"?!

    Lord knows there's plenty of reasons for folks to hate the war without indulging in this sort of nonsense.

    Nonsense?...No, nonsense was impeaching a president for lying about sex.
    This is much more serious,that a president flips flops on whether we are winning a war when our men and women are dying .

    I'd fall over if Cecilia or any of you could be honest enough to admit your hypocrisy.
    Party over country continues to be your motto.

    George Bush could run thru the streets naked screaming with a bottle of Thunderbird waving in his hands.
    You'd say a democrat stole his clothes and forced alcohol down his throat.

    For all of your professed intelligence, your ostrich playing with this president is beyond belief.

    If there is a God in his heaven he will give Coward a new rant AND a new rave. He's already boring me with this one.

    Rico, good point. I'll check with Karl OoOoOoOoOo Rove and see if the illegal spying that both Coward and KO are victims of can give us an answer and get back to you.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "...And patriot? Let me guess. You think you're superman too don't you?... Posted by: Brandon at December 20, 2006 11:17 PM"

    Once again you're speaking to a peanut gallery and not to me.

    Perhaps to you, a man with the plums to stand alone would seem like "superman", you would not know anything about having plums.

    I see a few of you are making attempts to be wordy in an attempt to create the illusion that you are standing up to me. You are not. All these last few posts were appeals for the group you identify with here to take part and back you up. Just more cowardice garble.

    When do we get to the part about what democracy is and how you feel about the children effected by the policies you pretend to defend????

    When?

    Tell me about the children.

    See, Bob, I was right. You gave my answer and included a personal insult.

    Can I call em or what!

    Was it a phantom answer?
    Falling over laughing.
    You're STILL afraid to answer the question.
    As I said, it speaks volumes.

    You know what I care about? I care about my 19-year old nephew who is over there fighting this war (he's a Marine) stationed in Baghdad whose job it is to patrol the airport route. To me he's still a child. I worry about him. I worry about his fellow soldiers. And it makes me angry when idiots like you cheer for the people over there who are trying to kill him and his fellow soldiers every single day.

    Coward Watch,

    Your dementia precedes your delirium.

    You better get off of the crystal meth and I mean now. Your quantity of inanities is building up at an alarming rate. If they decide to bring back the lobotomy it will your fault. Or did you perform one on yourself?

    Now I've got a dilemna. Would I rather see George Bush running down the street naked with a bottle of Thunderbird screaming its the Dems fault.

    Or, would I rather see Coward's magnificent plums.

    I vote for GWB. The sight of Coward's magnificent radiant plums might be too much for a mere mortal like me.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "This is much more serious,that a president flips flops on whether we are winning a war when our men and women are dying ."

    That it is serious business in Iraq is what makes it so inexplicable as to why you'd need to use something so tenuous in order to make a "gotcha" point against people who happen to disagree with you about the morality of the war in Iraq.

    Coward Watch,

    "You mean the children that the Iranian and Syrian backed "insurgents" are killing? Yeah, I am enraged at the insurgents. But you are not. You can only be mad at Republicans, conservatives, and Christians. You think they are responsible for all of the evil in the world, making you a morally warped individual. Posted by: Rico at December 20, 2006 11:25 PM"

    Super! Excellent! Now we're talking!

    Every single red blooded non Fox News owned conservative in this country concurs that George Bush and the Republican party that backed his adventure in Iraq (instead of Afghanistan, Iran and Syria) has weakened this nation, our foreign policy and our standing in the world. Post 911 we had Russia, China and just about every nation sympathetic with the USA. Bush took that and went to Iraq with the pre-911 plan by Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Cheney, to grab the oil rich nation. They ignored the warnings of generals and went with a small army and then disbanded the army of Sadam in a nation that required a Sadam because they would kill each other the minute no was in charge.

    You have done an excellent job assisting me here. Typical of white trash (don't bother denying it "Rico") idiot with a completely backward understanding implanted in your pea brain by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh.

    You are true patriot to my cause.

    Keep up the good work.

    Idiot!

    Add the belief that he's somehow smarter than everyone else to his long list of mental ailments. I'm done with this idiot for tonight. He's clearly off his meds and I don't mean that as an insult, I state it as a fact. No wonder he loves Olby so much, they seem to have a hell of a lot in common.

    Coward Watch,

    I have never been called "white trash" by a janitor before now. It's definitely a first.
    It feels refreshing, in a way.

    But that doesn't change the fact that you are not of sound mind.

    Brandon, I share your outrage. I have no relatives or kids of close friends in this conflict but I am rooting for them all.

    So many of these self righteous Bush haters greet each death of our soldiers as victory for their viewpoint. The same for each death of Iraqi children and civilians. Sick and repulsive..

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Ask for commentary about the children effected by Bushes adventure in Iraq and what do you get? You sophomoric morons like this from the peanut gallery commenting in the usual manner. Typical of what you would expect from a pea brain. No ability, no desire to be empathetic to those most effected by the policies that Fox News pushes for the Republicans that brought us hundreds of thousands dead in Iraq and tens of thousands of American children with no father this Christmas.

    Probably Christian no doubt.

    Posted by: Coward Watch at December 20, 2006 10:48 PM

    You are trying to talk of empathy to people who have none. They don't care about anyone but themselves. It is genetic I believe. Something within their brains doesn't allow them to think outside of their own twisted self interest. I read someone hear say that it is from there gene pool. Somewhere there was a "No daddy don't" in every damn one of their family trees.

    Grammie,

    It is obvious that many Lefties aren't even trying to hide the fact that they are disturbed individuals. So liberalism is a "mental disorder" after all. But I have known that for years.

    The problem with these people is, even though they are amusing, for a while, they don't really want to debate anybody. It's just a non-stop rant.


    ""You mean the children that the Iranian and Syrian backed "insurgents" are killing? ..., making you a morally warped individual. Posted by: Rico at December 20, 2006 11:25 PM"

    This is the symbolic poster of everything I am talking about here. No one yet has done a better job of putting in so few words everything that is ass backwards about the KO haters here.

    The idea that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran, and Hugo Chávez, of Venezuela, could come here to this nation and speak before the UN and the whole world in the humiliating manner as they did, speaks volumes about how much Bush et al. have done to weaken our country's standing.

    Iran has never been more powerful than they are today because of Bush and idiots like Rico here who suck up all the Fox News kool-aid.

    The idea of pretending these insurgents would be in Iraq killing children had Bush never come to power on the KKK political band wagon, is total delusional thinking from your typical Fox News educated idiots.

    Now you know why you guys are so afraid to speak outside of KO and what "he said", because when you do you show your true colors - yellow!

    It's always an enlightening experience to engage those folks who come to Olbermann Watch in order to convince Keith critics that they cannot simultaneously criticize Keith and be concerned with anything else in the world...

    Here we have their typically compelling and deeply reasoned elucidations on complex matters at hand.

    "Tell me about the children" (gotcha)


    "How did we go from ABSOLUTELY winning the war in iraq on October 25 to not winning it on December 18th?" (gotcha)


    That war is hell and that what Bob terms a flipflop is a characterization that is arguable to put it mildly...is beyond the kin of these two warriors...

    Nope, that anyone dares to find these tacts less than completely persuasive is reason enough for a world of outrage.

    Which goes to show that Olbyloon is a state of mind and not merely the status of being a Keith groupie.


    The problem with these people is, even though they are amusing, for a while, they don't really want to debate anybody. It's just a non-stop rant.

    Posted by: Rico at December 20, 2006 11:47 PM

    Debate? What is there to debate about? You and others here are upset that Keith is not what you want in a news commentator. You support an administration that will go down in the history books as the worst foreign policy makers ever. Most of the country knows and agrees with that fact. Iraq is a nightmare. A lot of brave young men were used and reused in a nonsense war plan that got a lot of people killed. You have really nothing to debate. You can accuse liberals or Democrats of this or that but you can never justify Bush or the Iraq war.

    Rico, attempting a conversation with Coward and some others on this site is the way to madness. You state your opinion and for your trouble you are accused of being a white trash idiot with a pea brain implanted with ideas by Fox and Limbaugh.

    And then that other mental giant, codas, accuses you and the rest of us of a genetic mental deformity agravated by our incestuous fathers

    Rico, come and join me. I made a promise to myself that I would treat these misfits with the respect they deserve. Which is less than none, with a generous dollop of contempt.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Codas,

    I love your novel approach to avoiding debate. Just declare that the debate's already over and you won. I give you a "6" for originality.

    Rico, come and join me. I made a promise to myself that I would treat these misfits with the respect they deserve. Which is less than none, with a generous dollop of contempt.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    ----------------------------------------------------

    Who here saw the episode I saw as a child of the Beverly Hillbillies when Granny had Jethro, Elly May and Uncle Jed all lined up standing at attention like soldiers?

    You guys are doing a great making my job easy.

    See at Wal-Mart in the polyester department!

    Rico, come and join me. I made a promise to myself that I would treat these misfits with the respect they deserve. Which is less than none, with a generous dollop of contempt.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at December 21, 2006 12:00 AM

    So you think that people who form opinions that differ from yours are misfits who deserve contempt and no respect. I am not supporting people being killed and billions being spent for nothing more than more killings by calling someones genetic makeup flawed. There is no debate and no comparison of who deserves contempt. The wasters of life and limb deserve prison. By the way, Merry Christmass!

    The latest abysmal ratings for Meltdown are in, and Odormoronn remains mired in FIFTH place out of FIVE. Nevertheless, she actually wants a raise. Hahahahahaha.

    TUESDAY, DECEMBER 19, 2006

    8PM - P2+ (25-54)
    O'Reilly Factor - 2,231,000 viewers (489,000)
    Paula Zahn Now - 804,000 viewers (338,000)
    Deal or No Deal - 685,000 viewers (201,000)
    Nancy Grace - 543,000 viewers (195,000)
    Meltdown w/ Odormoronn - 497,000 viewers (174,000)

    Oh goodie. Coward is slipping in KKK and sexual deviancy again. I just love it when he talks dirty. And I love being reminded of my favorite people in the whole world, Klansmen. Now them boys got plums.

    And on cue, codas tells us again that the debate he keeps asking for is impossible because he knows the truth of the matter.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "No, nonsense was impeaching a president for lying about sex."

    Wrong. It was obstruction of justice for which he was disbarred by a federal district court, a penalty that Clinton did not bother to contest.

    "Party over country continues to be your motto"

    Get your story straight Bob. On the one hand you tell us that there are lots of conservatives who have jumped ship and no longer support our involvement in Iraq. Now you tell that the Republican party has a single unified postion on the war and it favors this unifed position of the "party over country". Which is it?

    The political party that favors "party over country" are the Dems. The Dems want power so badly they get behind the President on the war when it is politically expedient, but turn tail when they see a political opportunity, damn the consequences of failing to complete the job of helping the fledging Iraqui government to assure its own security. Sure, Bob it is a tough fight and there have been mistakes in the execution of our mission, but the Democratic snipers and second guessers are disgusting opportunists who crave political power and care not a whit about the dangers of exposing our country to further attacks if we were to pull out. If you think this assessment is wrong, you should read the definitive work on the origins and nature of al Qaeda, The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright.

    "Codas,

    I love your novel approach to avoiding debate. Just declare that the debate's already over and you won. I give you a "6" for originality.

    Posted by: Rico at December 21, 2006 12:05 AM"

    Yep, that debate ended Nov, 7th 2006.

    Now if you are so big on debating why don't try doing rather than just comment about it?

    You stated insurgents are killing children not Bush. I laughed at that and pointed out that Iran has never been more powerful an influence in the region of Iraq than they are now after 6 years of Bush and Republican power.

    You are the one who doesn't debate. The debate ends when you are drowning in the truth!

    You have no plums for debate. Try knitting with gramma!

    Janet and cecelia,

    Where the hell have you been? I can only speak for myself but this site is not as fun without you two. Be honest. Do you really think Bush and Cheney have made our country stronger? Do you really think Keith's show is any worse than Fox? Do you really think I am silly and desrve only contempt for liking Keith and despising the war?

    Grammie,

    Is there a full moon tonight? I had better go out and check. Or maybe Jupiter is in the Seventh House.

    I guess Coward Watch has finally driven that final stake into my heart. He found out that I "have no plums for debate." I don't even know what that means. But don't tell me what it really means because I might bust a gut and be late for work tomorrow.

    "The political party that favors "party over country" are the Dems. The Dems want power so badly they get behind the President on the war when it is politically expedient, but turn tail when they see a political opportunity...Posted by: hank at December 21, 2006 12:13 AM"

    Total bull shit. China Russia and Pakistan were behind Bush post 911, how the hell would the Democrats survive not supporting Bush just after 911 yet Russia and China do?

    Bush ignored the generals and listened to the chicken hawks out to create chaos to rake in billions in war profits.

    You can pretend you are engaging in polite debate here but bull shit is bull shit and you are full of it.

    "The political party that favors "party over country" are the Dems. "

    What more can be said. This nation has never been more weakened by a party that puts party first than the party of Tom DeLay and Dick Cheney.

    You are joke!

    Codas, you always make my day.

    You must have king sized plums of brass. So self righteous and outraged. How dare a person you stated as fact is genetically flawed and had an incestuous father have no respect and only contempt for you.

    Oh, sorry. You must be a Leiberstaum (sic?) baby. A genectically engineered superman. What was I thinking to deny you your proper due.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    You're a broken man "Rico". Go to bed and cry!

    Oh, sorry. You must be a Leiberstaum (sic?) baby. A genectically engineered superman. What was I thinking to deny you your proper due.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at December 21, 2006 12:25 AM

    I do have German blood to go along with my Slovac grandfather. I loved "Thus spoke Zarathustra". I would have made a great Nazi but my love of Jim Morrison's lyrics was stronger than my love of Hitlers book.

    Rico, some of these folks have their own personal full moons following them around 24/7.

    Rico, since Coward has magnificent radiant plums count yourself lucky that you don't have em. Every time that phrase pops in my mind I can't help but laugh.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    I have my own personl full moon. I showed to my wife just a while ago as a matter of fact.

    I would love to see an Keith Olbermann-Michael savage debate. It would be over in a minute. As soon as Savage challenged him, Olbermann would hide under his desk!

    Do you think one of us might have insulted Coward. He seems a bit off form the last few posts. He only managed one little anemic epithet 'joke'.

    I hope his plums are still in working order.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Total bull shit. China Russia and Pakistan were behind Bush post 911, how the hell would the Democrats survive not supporting Bush just after 911 yet Russia and China do?"

    Evidently, Coward thinks the Dems had no other choice but to back Bush on the war after 9/11 in order to survive (the essense of political expediency) too, Rico...

    I don't agree with that assessment, but it's nice you two can agree on something...

    "I would love to see an Keith Olbermann-Michael savage debate. It would be over in a minute. As soon as Savage challenged him, Olbermann would hide under his desk!
    Posted by: Red Wolf at December 21, 2006 12:37 AM"


    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Savage_(commentator)#Alleged_Support_for_Fascism
    --------------------------------------------------

    --------------------------------------------

    In April 2006, Savage called for the killing of those that constitute the radical fundamentalist wing of Islam, saying, "Intelligent people, wealthy people...are very depressed by the weakness that America is showing to these psychotics in the Muslim world. They say, 'Oh, there’s a billion of them (Muslims).' I said, 'So, kill 100 million of them (radicalist Muslims); then there'd be 900 million of them.' I mean...would you rather us die than them?...Would you rather we disappear or we die? Or would you rather they disappear and they die? Because you’re going to have to make that choice sooner rather than later."[40] In 2004, Savage described radical Islamic fundamentalist Arabs as "non-humans" and "racist, fascist bigots" and advocated a nuclear attack on a "major Arab capital".[41]

    Recently, Savage has been extremely critical of talk show hosts such as Rush Limbaugh, whom he has called "Hush Bimbo", and Sean Hannity "Pawn Vanity," for what he views as their blind support of the Republican Party and President George W. Bush. Savage has called Bush and most neo-conservatives in government and talk radio "checked-pants, country club Republicans." Savage presents himself as a "Goldwater Republican," part of the traditional conservative movement, and opposed to government largesse and globalism. He has also attacked Bill O'Reilly (whom Savage has dubbed the "Lepre-con" and "Loofah-Boy" in reference to O'Reilly's sexual-harassment scandal) and William Bennett as hypocritical and phony conservatives for advocating
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I doubt very much that anyone who calls himself "Red Wolf" has clue what is going on the world of media warring let alone what it means to be anything but the spawn of Klu Klux Klan Kulture!

    Janet,

    Say what you will....our Codas is certainly self-righteous and always outraged and certainly as dumb as a shoe but he still is several feet away from the raving lunatic territory of Coward.

    dumb as a shoe

    Posted by: Cecelia at December 21, 2006 12:49 AM

    Hey!

    Anon,
    You're obvious an ignorant fool. M ichael savge is the Right's version of Keith Olbermann. I don't like Limpbaigh or Vanitty either they're hacks, like Olbermann.
    Spawn from Klan culture.
    Bo ignorant fool I'm a Spawn of the Roman culture that spawn your you ignorant fool. It's people like that abortion is legal. Do us a favor, go back to your Mom's stD infested womb and get aborted!

    Janet,

    Say what you will....our Codas is certainly self-righteous and always outraged and certainly as dumb as a shoe but he still is several feet away from the raving lunatic territory of Coward.

    Posted by: Cecelia at December 21, 2006 12:49 AM
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    Not one word about the children. Online living for the dying inside. Poster children for the pathetic no-life loosers of syber space!

    Cecelia, surprise, surprise, surprise. We agree again. I just refuse to play codas' little game anymore. First he tries to outCoward and outSLOB Coward and SLOB and then he makes an effort to be concilitory till the next urge overwhelms him.

    I'm emulating Santa from now on. I'm making a list and checking it twice. I refuse to play with these selfrighteous melagmaniacs, except to have fun at their expense.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Not one word about the children. Online living for the dying inside. Poster children for the pathetic no-life loosers of syber space!"


    Don't you think you're being a little tough on "the children"...

    Now what is this abberation, Red Wolf, that just popped up.

    At this rate my work will never be done. I am beginning to understand the pressure that Coward has been under.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Anon,
    You're obvious an ignorant fool. M ichael savge is the Right's version of Keith Olbermann. I don't like Limpbaigh or Vanitty either they're hacks, like Olbermann.
    Spawn from Klan culture.
    Bo ignorant fool I'm a Spawn of the Roman culture that spawn your you ignorant fool. It's people like that abortion is legal. Do us a favor, go back to your Mom's stD infested womb and get aborted!

    Posted by: Red Wolf at December 21, 2006 12:58 AM"

    Jesus H Christ Mr Wolfman, take a breathier or proof read before you post in such an emotionally elevated state. It ain't "anon" it just me watching the cowards who come to congregate. And as far as being spawn of the kulture of the klan, all you have to do is put state sponsored group identity before individuality and you are a bonafide Klansmen, coward and hater of democracy. You have made pleanty of posts that reflect your Savage education. Hard to believe a KKK man like you would be a student of Jewish man.

    I'm emulating Santa from now on. I'm making a list and checking it twice. I refuse to play with these selfrighteous melagmaniacs, except to have fun at their expense.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at December 21, 2006 01:02 AM

    Cheer up Janet. It's fricking Christmass time almost. Did you ever wonder where Christmass came from? A guy in a red suit who has Satan mispelled for a name and brings ashes to bad little boys and girls and comes from the north pole, the opposite of hell and wears red comes out of your fire place in the middle of the night. Merry Christmass.

    Cecelia, I'm obviously very slow on the uptake tonight. I don't understand either Watching Cowards post or your response.

    Maybe I should pack it in for the night.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    P S I've been back home for a few days now and was a bit worried to not see any of your posts. Glad to see your're back.

    Janet,

    No pressure. Kulture of the Klan, Red Wolf, Coward... it's all a matter of non-de-plumes... or plums, if you prefer.

    "I've been back home for a few days now and was a bit worried to not see any of your posts. Glad to see your're back."

    I've managed to get all my Christmas stuff done and have a bit of time for reading and posting.

    I didn't know you had been gone but I'm glad you're back as well. My timing is perfect. Good to see you.

    "Janet,

    No pressure. Kulture of the Klan, Red Wolf, Coward... it's all a matter of non-de-plumes... or plums, if you prefer.
    Posted by: Cecelia at December 21, 2006 01:13 AM"
    No pressure or no plums?

    What kind of Christmas do the children of war have? What kind of Christmas do the people who created that war have?

    Where will you hide Christmas eve when horror they suffer visits you in the night?


    Ah so. The styles are so similar, but I just attributed it to the same mental disease.

    I think I've seen Red Wolf's work a few times and thought he was the Wacky Right's answer to the Loony Left's Cowards.

    I have put him on my list and will keep my eye on him.

    Goodnight, have to get up early and make a two hour drive for a doctor's appointment tomorrow.

    Had fun tonight. Of course I may never eat a plum again. But that is a small price to pay for the mental image that Coward conjured up.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Where will you hide Christmas eve when horror they suffer visits you in the night?"

    Dickens did it better...


    "But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto Me: for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven."
    (Matthew 19:14)

    Oh, my little dove, fly away and be at rest.
    How sweet is thy voice,
    and thy countenance is comely.
    Thou art all fair, my love;
    there is no spot in thee.

    Chorus:
    Suffer the children to come unto Me.
    I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth.
    Thy parents shall be willing, willing in that day.
    Go up; for I will deliver them.

    These blessings shall come on thee,
    and overtake thee,
    if thou shall hearken unto the voice
    of the LORD thy GOD.
    I rejoice at Thy Word, as one that findeth spoil.
    A great door was opened unto me of the LORD.

    Chorus

    Oh, my little dove, perched upon the window sill,
    She looks at me, longingly, singing,
    "Oh, forget me not.
    The covenant is not over between us yet.
    Oh, please, remember,
    'A little child shall lead them'."


    He's making a list and checking it twice, he's gonna find out who's naughty or nice. Satans claws is comming to town.

    Am I the only one who sees this? Please help me. Who made up what we call Christmass? They weren't Christians I will tell you that.

    "Let all the flowers bloom."

    The activity on this site last night shows some of the old spunk....good stuff.

    Professor Honeydew (Bob) got some great answers to his gotcha question....I would like to mention one more point.

    Stop misquoting The President, professor.....

    "Yesterday, Bush said, 'We are not winning the war in Iraq'."

    Wrong/you are lying, professor. All stories I have read quote Bush saying the following:

    "I think an interesting construct that Gen. Pace uses is, 'We're not winning, we're not losing.'"

    You are free to interpret this anyway you like.....It is still your opinion. Your question is silly because it is debatable how the statement can be interpreted.

    But to misquote Bush is wrong, professor.....try being honest.

    IMHO, I think Bush knows full well and has known for the last three years that the reality and the presentation of Iraq have not always been the same....Both positive developments and negative developments. This is the reality of war. There are battles won/battles lost...but winning the war in the end is Bush's CONSISTENT goal.

    WWII had The Battle of The Bulge....and what did the allied commanders do about it....they responded in kind...in fact, they became ruthless. Read about what happened to Germany's cities and military towards the end of WWII....you should be calling for WAR CRIMES TRIALS FOR THE ALLIES, professor.

    This is war and it should be fought with tenacity. I hope they look at history and see that a ruthless enemy must be dealt with ruthlessly. The lives and freedom of good Iraqis (AND THEIR CHILDREN!) depend on the victory.

    BTW, I say go for impeachment....see what it gets you...I am confident that there is no evidence of wrongdoing by our fine executive..he has used his power granted to him under The Constitution correctly and nobley.

    Contrast your SPECULATION that Bush committed crimes punishable with impeachment/removal from office to the great Bill Clinton...who was accused of obstructing justice for a fellow citizen....AND WAS FOUND GUILTY OF THIS CRIME!

    The Senate voted that removal from office was too harsh a punishment...that is their verdict and I accepted it.

    It seems some of Clinton's supporters are still smarting from the consequences of his stupid lies under oath about his sexual misconduct..

    PS....some more bad news to the "GET OUT OF IRAQ NOW!" crowd....

    From the ground in Iraq...AP:

    "Sir I think we need to just keep doing what we're doing," Spc. Jason T. Green, with the 101st Military Intelligence Brigade Combat Team of the 1st Infantry Division, told Gates during a breakfast session with about 15 U.S. soldiers.

    "I really think we need more troops here. With more presence on the ground, more troops might hold them off long enough to where we can get the Iraqi Army trained up."

    "The troops may be somewhat at odds with military commanders, who worry that rushing thousands more Americans to the battlefront could prompt Iraqis to slow their effort to take control of their country.

    "Those concerns are "clearly a consideration" in mapping out future strategy, Gates said."

    Wow, imagine that? A US Army soldier wants to achieve victory....how I wish the politicians in Washington and the left would want that to happen for Spc. Green!

    A few days ago I posted that the DUmmies and the Kos Crowd openly cheer for the likes of Chavez and Castro. "Bob" (not our Bob) challenged me to prove it. I did, with numerous quotes from their sites that proved they cheerlead for dictators and against their own country. Bob of course refused to admit that I was right, he didn't want to confirm that the liberal mind-set includes the deep longing for communisim. And what do we have to add to the mix? Why it's little Coward Watch confirming his admiration for the likes of Chavez and adding Ahmadinejad's name to the list. Do we need any more proof that these idiots cheer for anyone but their own country? That they can't get it through their heads that presidents are temporary but that this country is permanent? And yes, they mourn the deaths of the Iraqis but not the deaths of U.S. Servicemen/women who risk their lives to fight for this country. They are simply outraged over the deaths of children in Iraq but care not one iota for the dead servicemen & women who have died as a result of TERRORISTS and insurgents in Iraq, never mind that many of the children they cry so many alleged tears over died at the hands of the terrorists and the hands of insurgents, not because of the U.S. Military. Everything is Bush's fault you see, in the mind of the twisted Olybloons. And if it means rooting for communists and dictators they're all for it. Sorry but I refuse to hate my country and if you don't like it, why don't you pack it up and leave? Why not settle down in Iraq since you're so concerned for the children there?

    "PS....some more bad news to the "GET OUT OF IRAQ NOW!" crowd...."

    Yes, it is bad news for our country (i.e. the "get out of Iraq now crowd") that our Penatagon would so cynically set up a anecdotal photo-op between Gates and a handful of misguided soldiers in order to prolong this fiasco for their own political cover. It shows the depths of their callous idiference to the lives of Spc Green and his fellow troops.


    Evidence pleeeeease Loin....

    Brandon,

    I don't remember Bob's post, but I remember asking you to provide some listing of the reasons you want us all to hate Chavez, Castro and Ahmadinjad. What are they? What are their crimes, and what dangers to they pose to our peaceful existence?

    "Spc. Jason T. Green, with the 101st Military Intelligence Brigade Combat Team of the 1st Infantry Division, told Gates during a breakfast session with about 15 U.S. soldiers."

    There's your evidence, you chickenshit drama queen.

    Ok. I guess Green is just too stupid to know when he is being used....He is not as smart as Sir Loin of Milquetoast.

    My bad.

    C'mon, Brandon,

    If these are countries you want us to go to war against it shouldn't be so hard to come up with some grievance against them. What is it about Venezuela, Cuba, and Iran - three countries that have never invaded anyone - that is worth eternal war?

    Maybe so, cee, there are a lot of highly variable people in the service.

    But I suspect it is more the result of the intensive regimental socialization that a soldier undergoes during training and while in the service. This is one of the reasons that soldiers are viewed as wards of their commanders - because the rigorous mental conditioning they are subjected to in order to make them capable of killing people and willing to submit to arbitrary command renders their judgment somewhat less than "free" or rational.

    Lets pretend you're a soldier in Iraq (HA HA HA ...wait a minute - HAR HAR - OK, I'm ready now), FOX News is, by official policy, on every TV on your base, your leaders - who you are trained to obey without question - are giving you instruction and encouragement that necessarilly puts your mission in the best light possible. Just the other day you were among three soldiers who pumped hundreds of rounds into a car that did not behave appropriately, and two children were among the five dead - a family.

    What are the chances that you would develope a coherent critique of the war in such a millieu?
    You would not. Peer/superior pressure and the pain of cogntive dissonance would keep you convinced that your mission was necessary and just. Otherwise you would be unable to function, and the feelings of guilt for the innocents you've killed would drive you mad. Those who are able to sheild thir psyches most effectively in this way are chosen to appear, and possibly speak, at presidential or cabinet-level photo-ops.

    Unlike stone-age tribal bands, we don't go to war so that our individual troops can gather honor or fulfill the mythological objectives engendered by their leaders in order to make troop morale a weapon in its own right. The American electorate has the responsibility to ensure that the troops, who have temporarilly relinquished their liberty and political judgement, are not misused or unnecessarilly put in danger, but we have no responsibility to prolong a war based on the institutionally warped perspective of individual soldiers.

    It's news to me that we are in an "eternal war" with Cuba, Venezuala or Iraq. But the liberals at DU & Daily Kos think the leaders of those three countries are great guys because they don't like Bush as much as you don't like Bush. What you don't seem to get is that all three hate AMERICA--all Americans--and that would include you. Yet you continue to foolishly heap praise upon them and wish to remodel our country into versions of their country. If you think Bush is bad, try living under Chavez or Castro's rule. Again, you cheer against America and for those who would seek to destroy us. You're commie-loving idiots.

    Oh my Loin, your speculative, over-simplified and arrogant psychological assessment of Spc. Green reminds me of how Senator Frist re-classified Terry Shiavo from afar.

    I thought liberals thrived in the reality based community.

    On another related point....

    I am not a usual supporter of the tacts taken by Coultergeist, (as our revered "newsman" calls her), but I must say her latest column hits the nail right on the head....and it feels so good...

    "Last year, Osama bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, wrote to the head of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, telling him to 'be ready starting now' for America to run from Iraq, reminding him how America cut and ran from Vietnam and the 'aftermath of the collapse of American power in Vietnam, and how they ran and left their agents.'

    "Alas, Zarqawi never got to implement his Iraq takeover plan because the same troops that are allegedly losing the war right now killed him in June.

    "But al-Qaida in America isn't ready to quit, yet!"

    Leave it to Ann Coulter to point out the obvious....Those Americans who have been ready to desert Iraq from before the invasion forces entered the country must be upset that al-Zawahri
    was wrong.

    When will he be proven right people?

    I was not saying we are currently at "eternal war", only that you people seem to be driving us in that direction.

    They "hate all Americans"? This is how you respond to a request that you list the crimes, infractions, and potential hazards posed by a set of nation-states? Is this really where you begin and end on this issue?

    This is childish monolithic thinking and has no place in serious adult debate. Are you actually George W. Bush?

    That last post was to Brandon.

    I've stopped responding to cee, whose last-ditch "fifth collumn" strategy discredits him entirely.

    POLL FROM OCT 2002
    SUPPORT FOR IRAQ MILITARY ACTION
    Favor use of military to remove Hussein 67%

    All you people who jumped off the bandwagon and blame Bush for the war now can shaddup. THAT is why it takes a leader with fortitude to crush the opposition - not run away like you liberals want! Give him a chance to crush the insurgents, and then we'll see.

    Oh, I'm so sad...Sir Loin of Milquetoast PhD. in Psychology does not want to play with me anymore. How will I live without the Chickhawk and drama queen attacks!

    Yes Loin, I take issue with your psycho-babble. With your theory, the modern day soldier, who rationally decides to take an oath to defend The Constitution of The United States (the same object as The President BTW) could be classified, essentially, as a robot...incapable of continuing the rational exercise of will.

    It may be applicable....but how you can be so sure Spc. Green is such an individual is beyond my comprehension.

    I feel like I'm Frank Sinatra in THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE.

    Don't take my previous post so personally, Loin...Remember, I am a believer in redemption only from the unmerited grace of The Creator.....There is always hope for anyone.

    For those of you who like short posts, please answer this question: How did we go from winning the war on October 25 to not winning the war on December 18th?

    This is the assessment and words of our president, George W. Bush !

    I'd really like to know the answer to that question.
    =====================================================
    Bob, I did answer your question earlier. Scroll up, look for it (or just do a search for my name).

    Why do you deal in anecdotes? I know nothing about Spc Green except what I read in your post, but applied well-known and long-recognized realities of military psychology in order to put your anecdote into an established context.

    Now cee will repeat my classifactory use of "well-known" and "long- recognized" in a sarcastic tone in the flacid attempt to discredit my statements. A real medical doctor, as opposed to a fascist faith-healer, would know better.

    He's making a list and checking it twice, he's gonna find out who's naughty or nice. Satans claws is comming to town.

    Am I the only one who sees this? Please help me. Who made up what we call Christmass? They weren't Christians I will tell you that.
    =====================================================
    Here you go:
    http://www.holidays.net/christmas/story.htm

    Also, don't get too hung up on anagrams, especially when dealing with foreign languages and translations. (Satan is a translation of the hebrew word for "accuser")

    cee pretends that military training is irrelevant to the moral /politial perception of soldiers. This is a vapid and self-serving perspective for an insular chickenhawk.

    Following WWII surveys were done among American sldiers who had actually seen combat, and it was found that something like 40% reported never having fired their weapons diretly at an enemy, despite having many oportunities. This figure alarmed miitary leaders, and changes in the psychology of the training regmen were implemented. By the early years of the Vietnam war this figure was lowered to less than 10% - very significant.

    They learned how to swamp empathy, fear, and regard for human life in the interests of the military objective. In the case of a real, necessary military objective this makes a lot of sense; but to pretend that this does not reflect what might be called "brainwashing" in a politically incorrect context is to ignore facts and logic.

    Sorry but I refuse to hate my country and if you don't like it, why don't you pack it up and leave? Why not settle down in Iraq since you're so concerned for the children there?

    Posted by: Brandon at December 21, 2006 07:49 AM

    Another fine example of someone who claims to love their country yet despises the idea of living in a democracy that includes people who disagree with them. You love America, it's just Americans you must have a problem with. Why don't you settle down in Iraq since your so concerned for the children and their democracy their?

    "I feel like I'm Frank Sinatra in THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE."

    You've got your movies mixed up, cee. You're thinking of "The Man With the Golden Arm". How much fentanyl have you swiped this week?

    "I know nothing about Spc Green except what I read in your post, but applied well-known and long-recognized realities of military psychology in order to put your anecdote into an established context. Now cee will repeat my classifactory use of "well-known" and "long- recognized" in a sarcastic tone in the flacid attempt to discredit my statements. A real medical doctor, as opposed to a fascist faith-healer, would know better"

    SLOB, if you had even a rudimentary knowledge about psychiatry, you would know that the disgnosis you ascribe to Spc. Green is totally unreliable and completely speculative in the absence of an face to face evaluation. As you admit that you know nothing about Green, his statement should be assumed to be a product of his own independent thinking.

    Professor Honeydew (Bob) got some great answers to his gotcha question.

    I got NO ANSWERS concerning Bush's flip flop and how are we winning the war on OCtober 25 and not winning on Dec 18.

    You must think that someone saying it's not a gotcha moment is a good answer.
    There isn't anything you're not willing to say in being a Bush apologist.
    I guess that you feel that it lets you off the hook in answering my question.
    Quoting Ann Coulter demonstrates just what kind of extreme nutcase right wing ideology ball park you include yourself.
    It does explains a lot!

    As I said before, if a democratic president was saying these exact things ( as ex GOP Congressman Joe Scarborough and I have pointed out)you and your cabal of righteous Americans would be calling for him to be removed from office.
    Being that it's Bush, means you give this delusional president yet another free pass.
    Talk about holding our elected representatives feet to the fire ! NOT !
    You've made it clear it's only on the other side of the aisle your righteous indignations are directed.
    Which makes you...let's be honest...a partisan hack !


    12% of Americans agree with Bush on escalating the war.
    He is at odds with admirals, generals, the Joint Chiefs, his own party and most of America.
    He is supposed to be a servant of the American people, yet he continues to defy their wishes to worry more about his legacy than what the people want.
    He is truly alone on an island and in full fledge bunker mentality.
    But at least W will still have Dr Lapdog kneeling at his feet, face in lap, while the civil war rages and Americans continue to be killed because of the "biggest foreign policy blunder in American history."

    Here is yet another response to Bush's statement on the 18th put in total context in a short 10 sec video.
    Watch,if you dare.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/12/20/jon-stewart-are-we-cove_n_36850.html


    Posted by: codas at December 21, 2006 09:59 AM
    ---
    Brandon despises idea of living in a democracy that includes people who disagree with them?

    and you don't?

    In one of you earlier posts above, you said something to the efefect that all R's have a "No, Daddy don't" moment in their history. Really sounds like you like the people YOU disagree with!

    No, Loin, I feel like Major Bennett Marco trying to save his pal Raymond Shaw from that horrible Chinese psychological implant manipulating his oedipal weaknesses.....That miserable, over-bearing mother (oh how I loved Angela Lansbury!).....

    "52 of them! Take a good look at 'em, Raymond, look at 'em, and while you're looking, listen. This is me, Marco, talking. 52 red queens and me are telling you... you know what we're telling you? It's over! The links, the beautifully conditioned links are smashed. They're smashed as of now because we say so, because we say they are to be smashed. We're busting up the joint, we're tearing out all the wires. We're busting it up so good all the queen's horses and all the queen's men will never put old Raymond back together again. You don't work any more! That's an order. Anybody invites you to a game of solitaire, you tell 'em sorry, buster, the ball game is over."

    Oh, sorry, my drama queen side is getting out of hand.


    PS Frankie Machine was a very 2-D character.

    In order to fufill the demand for an increase of troops,the neocons will probably resort to the draft, saying, "But keep your mits off my kid." Actually, Bush has already created a sort of a draft. He has allowed college tuition to go so high that it is out of the reach of the poor and middle-class. This means poor and middle-class high school seniors get to pick between minimum-wage fast food jobs and the slaughtergrounds of the Mid-East, while the children of the wealthy and connected, once again, stay safe to enjoy the benefits of a college degree and cushy jobs acquired from having the right connections.

    The thing that scares the hell out of me with all this talk about increasing the number of soldiers available is a word that shouldn't be spoken it its entirely, _ r a f t. Does any one doubt that this Administration would commit this one last heinous crime on its way out the door? If the recruiters don't do their job of meeting their newly increased quotas, Cental America here I come with my two boys, ages 19 and 17.

    The thing that scares the hell out of me with all this talk about increasing the number of soldiers available is a word that shouldn't be spoken it its entirely, _ r a f t. Does any one doubt that this Administration would commit this one last heinous crime on its way out the door? If the recruiters don't do their job of meeting their newly increased quotas, Cental America here I come with my two boys, ages 19 and 17.

    In order to fufill the demand for an increase of troops,the neocons will probably resort to the draft, saying, "But keep your mits off my kid." Actually, Bush has already created a sort of a draft. He has allowed college tuition to go so high that it is out of the reach of the poor and middle-class. This means poor and middle-class high school seniors get to pick between minimum-wage fast food jobs and the slaughtergrounds of the Mid-East, while the children of the wealthy and connected, once again, stay safe to enjoy the benefits of a college degree and cushy jobs acquired from having the right connections.

    Posted by: Anonymous at December 21, 2006 10:43 AM

    ---------------------------

    HEY! Everybody! I know who Anonymous is...ITS MATT DAMON...future presidential advisor (or so Chris Matthews would hope).

    He has allowed college tuition to go so high that it is out of the reach of the poor and middle-class.
    =====================================================
    WTD? Since when did the president have power over colleges' prices?

    I'm wondering if you people are starting to believe your own rethoric that the president is all powerful.

    After two months of saying he was winning the War on Christmas, Bill O'Reilly finally admitted that while we weren't losing the War on Christmas, we weren't winning it either.

    Bush cut funding for college education dipshit.

    The Kool Aid drinkers continue to swallow.

    The following is a partial transcript from President Bush's press conference yesterday.

    BUSH: First part of the - oh, the last two years.

    I'm going to work hard. I'm going to sprint to the finish. And we can get a lot done.

    And you're talking about legacy. Here, I - I know - look, everybody's trying to write the history of this administration even before it's over. I'm reading about George Washington still.

    My attitude is if they're still analyzing number one, 43 ought not to worry about it, and just do what he think is right, and make the tough choices necessary.

    And it's going to be a tough battle.


    Reading is fumblemental !

    Right, Bob,

    Grim has never heard of federal education grants/college loans? - or of Bush's draconian cuts therein? It takes rank ignorance to support Bush.

    Grim-

    In a word...yes! W increased college tuition; W wants to draft your child (even though Charlie Rangel - D is the only one in the govt who has seriuosly proposed it); W poisoned our air and water; W sent all our children over there to die for oil ( or daddy or legacy or because he hates america's youth and are trying to kill them off or because God told him too or...); W caused global warming...and on and on and on and on...

    W did all this with every single democrat in our country kicking and screaming no don't do it, stop, you are a madman...but W and the obviously right wing biased press sold it to all the neocons who were too busy laughing madly while rolling around in their money in their vaults (a la Scrooge McDuck)

    Thank God the only person that was capable of stopping W came along in the form of Olby!

    Bush cut funding for college education dipshit.
    =====================================================
    Bob, that's different from raising college admissions.

    Besides, studies (and basic economics) point out that increasing college funding only raises prices more.
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_19_56/ai_n13675420
    "Demand is rising partly for non-governmental reasons, such as higher incomes and a growing earnings differential between high-school and college graduates. But it is also rising rapidly because of the huge growth in government loan and grant programs as well as tuition tax credits. Pell grants, Stafford and Perkins loans, tax-sheltered college-saving schemes ("529 plans"), work-study programs, etc.: All serve to increase the number of students wanting a college education at any given price. Kids without money for college simply borrow it."
    "As the cost of conventional higher education rises, people seek out other options. For-profit institutions such as the Apollo Group's University of Phoenix use about one-third the resources of the typical not-for-profit to educate a student, and are both rapidly growing and extremely profitable (with pretax profit margins approaching 30 percent in some cases). Owing to their relative efficiency, their tuition costs are not much greater than those of some highly governmentally subsidized state universities."

    Just Dropped in,

    I have to disagree about the draft. If implemented without college deferrments, it would have the effect of waking our country up to the ramifications of our policies.

    My boys; 13 and 15; would face being called up eventually, but they would have the option of refusal and facing the legal consequences if the war at the time were foolish, unjust, and immoral as is this one. We would have millions marching in the streets to bring our troops home if there were an economically blind draft.

    Rank ignorance. Very good term Sir Loin.

    That includes about 50% of the right wing posters here. The other 50% never met a policy of Bush's they didn't like.( They know who they are)
    Actually I think that's even worse.

    Cee,

    You just love to repeat the talking points you hear on Rush & Hannity, don't you? Not an original bone in your body. Just like to be lead around by your Dictator and his followers. Out of the 30 pickups we made, only about 10 can be considered conservative, if that many. That is something that you guys like to throw out there to make yourselves feel better about your ideology being rejected by the populace.

    We didn't pick up more seats because of all the institutional advanatages you guys had going in to this election. It was the reason that King Moron, Karl Rove, believed in his heart, you were only going to lose 10-14 House seats and 2-3 Senate seats. Those advantages (gerrymandering, The FauxNews Propaganda Machine, your vaunted GOTV, etc.) did help to keep about 15-20 seats in your party. Quite a few seats were won by the R's where the margin was less than a few percentage points. Back in '94, all the close races went to you guys because we were unprepared for that election. You guys saw this coming a mile away. How could you not?

    You state that the # of seats won is a lot less than an opposing party wins during a president's second mid-term. Interesting, then why did Clinton & the Dems GAIN seats during his second mid-term in '98? They are from the same party, you know? Seems we did okay by that standard, didn't we?

    Again, with regards to Lieberman, the man is a serial liar, something your party is extremely familiar and comfortable with. He blurred the lines between his stated positions and his actual voting records, time and time again. Plus his voting records was faily liberal, but I'll repeat this: if the CT-Sen election had gone as any normal election with a credible R & D, Lieberman would have lost. Hell, all it would have taken would have been for Alan whats-his-name to have pulled 21% of the vote, instead of the 10% he got, and Lamont would have won. In no election, do you expect the Repulican candidate to receive only 10% of the vote.

    As for having us right where he wants us, yeah right. He has been marginalized by this election and he knows it. He used to be the Democrat that FauxNews and Shrub would always go to so that they could proclaim they have bipartisan cover. Now, he isn't a true Democrat anymore and everyone knows it. Now, if he wants to criticize the Dems, it will be looked at as sour grapes. He won't switch parties now either. He's a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. Any idiot that looks at the 2008 electoral map would see that the Dems are almost certainly going to pick up additional seats. The R's are defending way too many, in way too blue states. If he switches now, it benefits him until then, and we would never take him back.

    You are just too easy to pick apart. Your BS is the same stuff spewed by the Right Wing Noise Machine. That's all it is too: Noise. You guys have been marginalized and it hurts. It sure is fun to be on this side though. I've been on your side, I feel your pain. The difference though, is that I don't have a black, corrosive and rancid soul.

    Sorry wrong thread...

    Oh my, Professor Honeydew is in rare form....

    I'll misquote him like he misquoted our fine President:

    "Watch! If...you...DARE!"

    Yeah, I'll look at it when I have a chance.

    BTW draft worriers, The Congress will have to pass a law reinstituting mandatory military service, so don't worry...any political "electrified" 3rd rail will scare any Democratic Congress from doing the right thing.


    Bush:"I'm reading about George Washington still".


    Now, don't anyone spoil it for dubya and tell him that George Washington dies in the end...

    Just dropped in, why wait for the last heinous crime. I think you should start packing asap.

    Might I suggest two possible new homes. Cuba or Venezuela. I am sure you will find many like minded friends. And there political systems are to die for. Just ask Babs, Fonda or the Dixie Chicks.

    It goes far beyond just being able to critisize the evil Amarican regime. You get prizes gor the best quotes.

    Paradise awaits south of the border for you and your family. For myself, that is too close to the Rove/Cheney monsters. I'm afraid they have alredy extended that illegal wiretapping there and I will leave my family back in the father land.

    So, I am moving to Iraq and joining up with Al Qaeda. I'm not going to let these criminals push me around anymore.

    Bye bye. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. No problem. I forgot your ass has taken over your brain.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Grim has never heard of federal education grants/college loans? - or of Bush's draconian cuts therein? It takes rank ignorance to support Bush.
    =====================================================
    Yeah, i've heard of them Beef, and I've heard (and seen) about how they actually increase costs. See the article I posted above or just read this from it:
    "The recent reduction, in some states, in government support for universities is thus sensible public policy.
    One worthwhile approach is Colorado's: Allocate more money directly to students, rather than to institutions."

    But let's also use a hypothetical situation. Say the government started to give every person $100 to buy bread. Now, do you think bread is going to stay at say... $2 a loaf, or will bread makers start charging $100 a loaf?

    as usual, Grims continues to misrepresent the facts:

    Bush: Cut $3.2B from education
    For second straight year, president's budget plan would slash ed-tech funding
    By Corey Murray, Senior Editor, eSchool News

    February 7, 2006-For the second straight year, President Bush is asking Congress to cut education spending--this time, by more than $3 billion.

    The President is proposing the largest cuts to federal education funding in the 26-year history of the Department of Education. Modest increases in some programs, including math and science instruction, are more than offset by the proposed elimination of 42 other proven education programs.

    In his 2007 budget proposal, released Feb. 6, the president called for the elimination of 42 federal education-related initiatives--including the $275 million Enhancing Education Through Technology (EETT) block-grant program, the federal government's primary source of funding for school technology, and the $347 million Safe and Drug-Free Schools and Communities program.

    Bush had advanced the elimination of EETT last year, too, and Congress spared the program in its final 2006 budget--but not before cutting it nearly in half.

    Overall, the U.S. Department of Education (ED) would receive $54.4 billion next year, down from $57.6 billion in 2006.

    My boys; 13 and 15; would face being called up eventually, but they would have the option of refusal and facing the legal consequences if the war at the time were foolish, unjust, and immoral as is this one. We would have millions marching in the streets to bring our troops home if there were an economically blind draft.
    =====================================================
    Let's suppose for a moment that all these worries come true, Bush implements the draft on 1/1/2007. Ok, so that's 2 years with the draft before another presidental election. The the democrat canidite wins a huge victory over the republican one who cannot escape the association of the draft with his party and thus it is recended on 1/1/2009. That's a grand total of 2 years of the draft, meaning that your eldest boy would be 17, just dodging it.

    In other words, even given the worst case senario, neither of your kids have anything to worry about draft-wise. Unless the country suddenly descends into marshal law, in which case I'm inviting everyone to my house for the rebellion. (i've got a lot of weapons and where i live seems to have something about it that scrambles some satelite imaging)

    Now, don't anyone spoil it for dubya and tell him that George Washington dies in the end...

    By: DeweyOxburger on December 20, 2006 at 03:37pm

    Cut and paste job from the pages of HuffPo.

    The burning question. Is anon a plagiarizer or afraid to post under his own name on a less friendly site than HuffPo. We need to call Coward Watch asap. He is expert at ferreting out cowards.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Lapdog: "Our fine president"

    Kind of says it all doesn't it?

    The fine president that only 12% of Americans agree with.

    TDF
    Too damn funny
    for the acronymed challenged

    as usual, Grims continues to misrepresent the facts
    [rest of the post related to bush's record on education funding]
    =====================================================
    Ummm.... Bob, I'm so confused.
    You seem to imply that I denied bush cut funding. *searching* if you could post the quote where I did so, I'd appreciate it since... well I wasn't arguing against that.

    What I was arguing is that (economically speaking) cutting funding might help to lower costs in the long term.

    I'm not misrepresenting facts, you're misrepresenting ME. But hey, if you'd rather argue with a caricature than a person, I've got a brick wall you can past a stick figure on.

    Still waiting to hear from Brandon exactly what we have to fear from Venezuela, Cuba, and Iran. Since he seems unable to detail the rationale for the belligerence he advocates, perhaps Grammie, who has just commented on this issue, could clarify it for me.

    What are the crimes of Chavez, Castro, and Ahmadinejad, and why should we fear them?

    Bob-

    is this the same dept of ed that was unable to account for billions of dollars under the previous administration?

    Grim,

    I don't really get your draft argument. For clarification on my end; I advocate a permanent, universal draft for a whole range of service. Right out of Hish School, every youngster would enter two years of mandatory service ranging from military, conservation, urban renewal, hospital work, etc. This would have the efects of uniting our society by shared experience and also waken the younsters to the fact that their fates are ties to our government's policies.

    Reading is fumblemental ! Cut and pasted from HuffPo.

    Bob, your friend Coward is going to be sorely disappointed in you.

    What does this remind me of. Oh, I know. All the moonbats accusing others of parroting Rush, BOR, Hannity etc.
    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Just ask Babs, Fonda or the Dixie Chicks."

    By "Babs" do you mean the young Barbara Bush, Grammie? I think you're confused; Argentina is the Latin Anerican country that she has retreated to in order to avoid the troubles here at home - not Venezuela or Cuba.

    Drinking and cavorting and avoiding military service with the grandchldren of Nazi refugees and bi-curious Miss USA pageant winners - that's our First Family.

    I don't really get your draft argument. For clarification on my end; I advocate a permanent, universal draft for a whole range of service. Right out of Hish School, every youngster would enter two years of mandatory service ranging from military, conservation, urban renewal, hospital work, etc. This would have the efects of uniting our society by shared experience and also waken the younsters to the fact that their fates are ties to our government's policies.
    =====================================================
    Well... we disagree on that then I guess.
    Of course, you could just say that every kid ought to be enrolled in boy/girl scouts while in high school since all of those things are done (I know, I helped out a church camp for my eagle project). Also, aren't kids nowadays volunteering for most of that stuff anyway? Anyone have stats? It may have changed by now but I thought I heard somewhere that teens were volunteering in record numbers in hospitals etc.

    So beef... basically you want to take away teens' freedom and force them (or rather, a minority - unless, again, someone can bring up the stats and clarify) to do something? Didn't hitler have something like that???
    "After 1938, the Hitler Youth was a compulsory organization, mandatory for all young German men."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Youth

    Challenger, you caught on a lot faster then I did. Bob and many of his ilk (see SLOB @ 11:48) just can't lose. They argue for themselves and then pretend that your answer is what they want it to be. As an added bonus, they love insulting people they disagree with.


    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    . I was an independent voter who did not behold to any political party, but people like Gallagher who say things like this have turned me entirely against the Republican Party. I'm not a cheerleader for the democratic party, but I cannot support people who want to transform our free republic where everyone has the right to their opinion into a totalitarian regime where anyone who speaks out is shunned of killed. . This country was founded on everyone's right to believe what they want to and express their beliefs in any way barring that it places themselves or others in danger, and that's the way I want to keep it.

    I listened to both sides and honest to God I wanted to remain in the middle, but when I hear something like this it just makes me sick to my stomach. Gallagher isn't the first conservative to say something like this either. Remember when Jerry Falwell blamed feminists, pagans, gays, abortionist, the ACLU, and People for the American Way for the September 11 attacks. Or how about when Michael Savage wished AIDS on someone who called his show on national television? When Ann Coulter said, "they killed the wrong Lincoln" referring to Rhode Island Senator Lincoln Chafee because he wasn't conservative enough? How do you not find these things to be offensive?

    If you don't agree Olbermann fine, (I don't agree with any of these Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Mike Gallagher, ect) but I don't think they should be arrested and placed in detention camps. Though they may say stupid things they haven’t broken any laws, and neither has Olbermann

    Fred Bear, I have been so wrong. I finally see the light. Keith Olbermann is the only thing standing between the world and those evil Republicans.

    I didn't recognize his greatness because he is so humble, reasoned and accurate. Thank you for setting me straight.

    LOL

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Tofutti---

    You advocate mandatory service but then you said you would have your children opt out if it was a war you didn't agree with. How the heck does that help with anything? Say 88% of the populace didn't agree with a war and wouldn't go...how is that mandatory?

    listened to both sides and honest to God I wanted to remain in the middle, but when I hear something like this it just makes me sick to my stomach. Gallagher isn't the first conservative to say something like this either. Remember when Jerry Falwell blamed feminists, pagans, gays, abortionist, the ACLU, and People for the American Way for the September 11 attacks. Or how about when Michael Savage wished AIDS on someone who called his show on national television? When Ann Coulter said, "they killed the wrong Lincoln" referring to Rhode Island Senator Lincoln Chafee because he wasn't conservative enough? How do you not find these things to be offensive?
    ===================================================
    Offensive? Yes, but as you pointed out:
    ++++++++++++
    This country was founded on everyone's right to believe what they want to and express their beliefs in any way
    ============
    I certainly don't support any violence against someone because of something they've said etc. I certainly wasn't the one talking about the founders beating up [insert name] unlike some people. To quote Jonah Goldberg:
    "Everyone likes to think he’s in favor of maximizing freedom. But in reality most folks want to maximize only the freedoms they like."

    It's a tough road but I try to advocate freedoms even if I don't like them (but then again, I'm so right-wing I'm barely short of anarchism).

    my bad, that ^ was me

    Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner. See, I have this thing called a career, not to mention a wife and children. Unlike you, I'm not collecting unemployment or welfare and don't have unlimited time to post 24/7 at a message board.

    The left's warm embrace of dictators like Castro and Chavez reveal that they are little more than socialists/communists disguising themselves as Democrats. If you have to ask what crimes that Castro and Chavez have committed than your head is so far up your ass you'd never hear what I posted about them anyway. But for the record, they are both ruthless dicators who supress the free will of the people in their own country. Neither man is the hero that you clearly want to make them out to be. And I guess the idea of Iran obtaining nuclear weapons doesn't bother you in the least. After all, it doesn't bother you to see our US Military blown to bits so I guess it won't bother you in the least to see this country attacked one day by nuclear weapons in the hands of a Muslim extremist who has already expresssed his disdain of this country.

    You people aren't patriots. You aren't clear thinkers. You're so blinded by hate and warped by malice to want what's best for this country. You cheer against our servicemen. You embrace dicators who share your hatred and malice. I pity you, I really do.

    Darien, if you have only heard those on the right being intolerant and going way over the line you might need a hearing aid for your left ear.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie


    Don't mean to butt in, but speaking of Bush's propsal to cut education funding again, it's curious to me that he would bother trying to cut anything.

    After all, this man seems to be living in a fantasy world regarding the budget and it's consequences anyway. So whats another 3 billion or so added to the debt?

    Lets see....he starts an expensive war and CUTs taxes (mostly for those who need it the least), again and again....never vetos a spending bill....and builds the biggest Federal Government in history.

    I don't know if it's true or not, but I once read a quote attributed to Cheney in a White House meeting from the early days; It goes something like this "Reagan proved deficits don't matter".

    This philosophy might make sense to some people, but not to me!

    "Challenger, you caught on a lot faster then I did. Bob and many of his ilk (see SLOB @ 11:48) just can't lose. They argue for themselves and then pretend that your answer is what they want it to be. As an added bonus, they love insulting people they disagree with."


    Janet you act as though only one side is involved in the name calling.

    "All the moonbats accusing others of parroting Rush, BOR, Hannity etc"

    When you are calling people moonbats you can't act as though you aren't involved in this as well.


    And I guess the idea of Iran obtaining nuclear weapons doesn't bother you in the least. After all, it doesn't bother you to see our US Military blown to bits so I guess it won't bother you in the least to see this country attacked one day by nuclear weapons in the hands of a Muslim extremist who has already expresssed his disdain of this country.
    =====================================================
    Brandon, you have to approach this from their point of view, whereby our service men and women shouldn't even be over there nor anywhere near the reach of Iran's nukes.

    What this debate about is essentially boiled down to: "When do we act?" Think about WWII as a prime example. Some apparently think we were doing right there and shouldn't have bothered with hitler since he wasn't really "threatening" us (certainly not an immenint threat no? - look up at the little argument I had up toward the top with the Ensign). Others believe we should stop problems before the grow out of control.

    Now that this has been clarified, countinue the debate.

    I'll totally admit to name-calling. And why shouldn't I when I and the rest of the posters here have been accused of being 'in-bred", the products of incest, trailer-park residents, etc. That's quite a long way from the world I live in, where I own a large home in a gated community, drive a luxury vehicle, and oh yes, have more than one advanced degree. But the left just loves to sterotype. They believe in their own smug superiority, never mind that they have more than their fair share of drug users, welfare recipients, and uneducated, brain dead amongst their numbers. Not that they would ever acknowledge it of course. They have the inability to say three simple words, "I was wrong."

    This philosophy might make sense to some people, but not to me!
    ==================================================
    Ok Mike, I'll try clearing this up for you.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Don't mean to butt in, but speaking of Bush's propsal to cut education funding again, it's curious to me that he would bother trying to cut anything.

    After all, this man seems to be living in a fantasy world regarding the budget and it's consequences anyway. So whats another 3 billion or so added to the debt?

    Lets see....he starts an expensive war and CUTs taxes (mostly for those who need it the least), again and again....never vetos a spending bill....and builds the biggest Federal Government in history.
    ==================================================
    1) Agreed on spending and big government. I am certainly not happy, but why then would I want to vote for the alternative that says they are going to expand the government even MORE?
    2) Look up the Laffur curve. Cutting taxes can (and has in this case) increase revenue. That's at least something that's going for him.
    3) People who need the LEAST cuts? Considering that 10% of the population pays for... what 50% of the taxes? Shouldn't they then get at least 50% of the cut? Again, when did america become about punishing success?
    4) agree again, I do wish he'd veto some things.

    Brandon:

    I know this wasn't my argument, but I believe the question was "what do we have to fear" from the likes of Cuba, Venezuela, and Iran? Your answer was to play the "brutal dictator" card.

    You would almost have to be high on something to argue we have anything to fear from Cuba, at least since 1962. I would say the biggest threat from Chavez and Co. is probably our own dependence on his oil.

    Iran appears to be the only one of the three that a rational argument could be made regarding their 'threat' to us. The arguments on both sides of this debate are compelling, but no one really has a crystal ball on this.

    Here's a snapshot of the liberal darling, Hugo Chavez:

    On 11 April 2002, chaos erupted in Venezuela, with huge protests of over half a million people organized demanding the immediate resignation Chávez. Chávez ordered the military to control the riots instead of the police "Plan Avila", possibly with orders to fire upon the protesters; the military refused to carry out Plan Avila, forcing Chávez to leave the capitol and resign, which was announced on 12 April 2002. A vacuum of power ensued and Pedro Carmona was placed in power; however due to missteps even in his first day of power, many who had supported the removal of Chávez now refused to back Carmona, forcing his resignation and the restoration of Chávez to power. On 02 December 2002 a general strike at the Venezuelan Oil Company PDVSA was cracked down by Chávez, resulting in his dismissal of 18.000 employees, many who had not been involved in the strike but were simply not seen as loyal to Chávez; the lack of oils workers brought the country's oil production and export to a standstill until February 2003. Poor sentiment at the company had gradually increased due to the appointment of Rafael Ramírez Carreno to president of the company, a man who was regarded by many to be a Marxist and an enemy of management. Chávez later admitted to having a hand in the crisis at PDVSA in order for him to gain more control over the company and consolidate his power. However the consolidation of control over PDVSA by Chávez did have a price, as even in May, 2005 the company had still not fully recovered to productivity before the strikes.

    On 01 February, 2003, Opposition to Chávez moved to have him removed from office, gathering more than three million signatures of private citizens calling for a referendum on whether Chávez should remain in power. After much obstruction by the government, this move failed when the petition was ultimately declared invalid, because the signatures had been gathered prior to Chávez' mid-point in his term.

    In August 2004, a second petition was organized, this time with 3,5 million signatures and a referendum was held but almost 60% of the voting population opposed to remove Chávez from office. However, results were later found to have irregularities, with more than 40% of the population not taking part in the vote, despite reports that voters had turned out in record numbers.

    In May 2004 another coup plot was reported foiled by the Venezuelan government.

    The Media in Venezuela is largely and overtly against Chávez, with very little mass media supporting him. However there are numerous reports of intimidation of the media by pro Chávez gangs that have been alleged to have issued violent threats against the media that does not support him. Chávez moved to start restrictions on the media with vaguely worded legislation that could allow him to suppress political content, although the initial scope of the law was restrictions on pornographic and violent content.

    In mid-March of 2005 Chávez passed legislation further clamping down on the press, by broadening controls on how the press can report articles deemed "disrespectful" or "insulting" of the government. Sentencing for such transgressions ranges between 20 and 40 months incarceration, depending on the gravity of the offense. Moreover laws have been passed against the media, tightening controls on what would be considered slanderous, carrying sentences up to 30 months and what would amount to tens of thousands of US dollars in fines.

    Numerous human rights organizations have expressed great concern over the incremental restrictions imposed by the Chávez regime on the Venezuelan media .

    To solidify his control over the Venezuelan Supreme Court, Chávez passed legislation in May 2003 to increase the number of Supreme Court Justices from 20 to 32 and appointing another 5 vacant posts, giving him a clear majority in the judicial branch of the government. He also allowed for the appointment of 32 reserve justices, all of which are loyal to him. It should also be noted that former justices were forced to resign after several "politically sensitive rulings". Many are very concerned that with the control of the courts, Chavez seems to have consolidated control over the executive, legislative and judicial branches of the government.

    Chavez has very close personal friendship with Fidel Castro of Cuba, and Venezuela provides oil to Cuba in exchange for skilled workers and other services. Chávez also had ties to Saddam Hussein of Iraq, and not only staunchly opposed the invasion of Iraq but also went on a state visit to Hussein. He has also allied himself with Qaddafi in Libya, receiving a human rights award from him in 2004 during a state visit.

    Chávez has also recently bought MiG's from Russia, and territorial disputes with Colombia and Guyana now call into question whether Chávez is looking to start looking to his military for purposes other than defending the country. He has granted asylum to Colombian opposition terrorists, which indicates that perhaps he might also attempt to move against Colombia in other ways than outward military force. Moreover, Chávez has been known to support numerous far-left terrorist groups in South America.

    The National Guard or state police force in Venezuela has been accused of intimidation and bullying tactics of opposition, reminiscent of the Mussolini brownshirts in the 1930's. It is also troubling that nationalism and xenophobia are seemingly fostered by the government, combined with a push to have the population loyal to Chávez and not to the country. He has created a cult of personality about himself, creating the illusion to the masses that he is infallible; as a speaker Chávez has a bombastic style, literally working his audience up into a frenzy.

    Chávez seems also to aspire to unite much of South America's sentiment against foreigners, notably the United States. He speaks of a continental vision, but clearly not without much influence from himself.

    Yeah, he sounds like a great guy alright. And you seem to think he's some kind of liberal/leftist hero of the common man.

    jt, browse up to late last night and the early AM and check out what a real insult is. Or, for that matter just do a survey through ramdom threads and see who is saying what.

    If memory serves me right you and I had a back and forth about this re MJF' add. At that time you accused me of thowing my own bricks in response to liitle things like moonbats (sorry, in some cases this is approriate)wishing I would get Parkinsons and die a long slow death and accusing me of every mental and moral depravity known to man.

    You really would carry more weight with me if you developed a better sense of proportion about what you consider name calling.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    They believe in their own smug superiority, never mind that they have more than their fair share of drug users, welfare recipients, and uneducated, brain dead amongst their numbers.
    ====================================================
    Judging from their voting numbers, they also have the litteral dead among their numbers.

    (sorry, i know that was sort of a cheap joke, but I couldn't help myself, sometimes the set up is too juicy)

    Castro: http://www.hrw.org/press/2003/09/cuba090403-tst.htm

    From Human Rights Watch:

    "Severe political repression has been constant throughout this time. Cuba has long been a one-party state. It has long restricted nearly all avenues of political dissent. It has long denied its people basic rights to fair trial, free expression, association, assembly, movement and the press. It has frequently sought to silence its critics by using short term detentions, house arrests, travel restrictions, threats, surveillance, politically motivated dismissals from employment, and other harassment.
    The first thing I hope we can all agree on is that no one should have any illusions about the character of the Cuban government. No one should romanticize any aspect of this cruel system, or make any excuses for Fidel Castro's abuses. The crackdown on dissent in Cuba is not the fault of the United States, or the fault of the U.S. embargo, or the fault of the Cuban-American community. The responsibility lies with Fidel Castro, period."

    "After all, it doesn't bother you to see our US Military blown to bits so I guess it won't bother you in the least to see this country attacked one day by nuclear weapons in the hands of a Muslim extremist who has already expresssed his disdain of this country."

    First, I would like to point out that Ahmadinejad has NO power over the military forces of his country. So any tirades by him about attacking countries or using force are just empty words because he hasn't the authority to back them up.

    Second, it appears that he may have to change his policies anyway due to internal pressures. Hard-liners in Iran were soundly defeated by moderates and reformers in the latest round of local elections. In a parallel election, anti-Ahmadinejad sentiment was visible in the results of the 86-member council that is responsible for selecting the successor to the current supreme leader. This may be a sign that Ahmadinejad's obsession with the West has corroded his power.

    From Human Rights Watch:

    "Severe political repression has been constant throughout this time. Cuba has long been a one-party state. It has long restricted nearly all avenues of political dissent. It has long denied its people basic rights to fair trial, free expression, association, assembly, movement and the press. It has frequently sought to silence its critics by using short term detentions, house arrests, travel restrictions, threats, surveillance, politically motivated dismissals from employment, and other harassment.
    The first thing I hope we can all agree on is that no one should have any illusions about the character of the Cuban government. No one should romanticize any aspect of this cruel system, or make any excuses for Fidel Castro's abuses. The crackdown on dissent in Cuba is not the fault of the United States, or the fault of the U.S. embargo, or the fault of the Cuban-American community. The responsibility lies with Fidel Castro, period."

    Posted by: Brandon at December 21, 2006 12:40 PM
    ==================================================
    hmmm...... that sounds a lot like fascism doesn't it Brandon? I wonder if the "professor" cares to weigh in on whether Castro is left-wing or right-wing. (no sarcasm intended, i'm genuinely curious)

    because my time here this afternoon is limited, here's an entire list of links at Amnesty International on the Human Rights violations in Iran.

    http://www.amnesty.org/airesults/search?access=p&output=xml_no_dtd&site=default_collection&ie=iso-8859-1&lr=lang_en&client=eng&oe=UTF-8&proxystylesheet=eng&q=Iran&ip=192.168.1.6&sort=date%3AD%3AS%3Ad1

    Use the handy search function to find dozens more articles on liberal favs Castro & Chavez. And then come back and tell me again why they are so revered in the leftist community.

    And if they are really so great, why don't you pack up and move there and THEN try and report back to us on how great they are?

    jt, in addition to Brandon @12:29 PM I thought I would copy this for your edification since I have it handy due to sloppy housekeeping on my part.

    Coward, please forgive me for misinterpreting your remarks. If I had known you were excluding you and yours because you are high class waiters and busboys I would have reacted differently.

    I missed the 'trailor park trash' comment you made. But now that I understand you only include 'five dollar trailer park trash' immortalized by James Carville I promise to honor the distinction in any future insul, uh remarks.

    What can I say? I have gone from, and I qoute you,:


    a 'fat bald male republican'

    to a 'really old hag controlled by her backwater husband'

    to 'a low life who demonstrates a perverse thrill in portraying yourself as someone's grandma'

    to a 'teaming up with young men who enjoy ganging up individuals'

    to a practitioner of 'a sick desire to spew the hate your parents probably taught you'

    to a chameleon 'switching back and forth from innocent grandma to attack dog'

    to a ' gangster grandma Janet'

    and, finally, to the denouement ' a poor uneducated white trash hate monger out fishing for a justification to express your hate.'

    What can I say? I guess they don't make little old gray haired grandmas they way they used to.

    Of course, they also don't make heros the same way either. Heros used to be the Audie Murphys, Alvin C Yorks, Sam Waldenburgs, Meis Geis and untold and uncounted thousands who didn't blow their own horns and direct their scorn at others.

    I admit freely that I AM NOT A HERO. I have unbounded respect for true heros. Sorry, Coward. Calling yourself a hero because you are doing the exact same thing that three hundred million Americans can do with impunity does NOT make you a hero.

    Sure, you could go to Sadr City and, using any identity you desire, say what you are saying here and be safe. They might even call you a hero. Unless you truly desire to be a hero, don't contradict them. You will very likely wind up a hero with your body separated from your head with a rusty knife.

    I stand by my original assessment of you. You are a contemptible little worm of a man.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at November 16, 2006 05:50 PM

    Perhaps you're right, jt. If I could drag myself out of the gutter and become a reasonable person like Coward and his close associates OW would be a model for the rest of the world.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Mike, my point is that the left loves these dicators and the liberal websites are full of posts praising them. Clearly they are woefully ignorant of who these men really are. While Castro may not necessarily be a military threat to us, we cannot say that about Chavez (I documented) and about Iran. And if you aren't aware of what's going on in those two country's, I won't be surprised as you have time and time again here expressed your ignorance on any number of subjects, yet you always seem to think that your right about what you *think* is going on in a situation, based on your limited knowledge of it. Well get to reading up on Iran & Venezuala since you seem to have so much more free time than I do and report back to us on exactly why these men aren't to be admired and why they are both said to be consolidating power, gathering weapons and that both have an extreme hatred of the U.S., and yes, shocking though it might be to you, trust me, they won't differentiate between the liberals and the conservatives if and when they attack this country.

    Brandon:

    I don't know exactly who you were addressing with your looonnnggg post about Chavez, but who are you to suggest that those on the left "think he is some kind of leftist/liberal hero to the common man"?

    For that matter, you don't have a clue what most of "the left" actually thinks of this man. Except for some fringe radicals, he and his policys have been universally comdemned by both the left and the right.

    The question was about "the threat" he poses to us, or more importantly, what should we do about it? I don't see where there is a lot we can do about his trying to "unite sentiment" against us"....except possibly considering adopting a less arrogant foreign policy!

    I for one, believe that our belligerent foreign policy tone over the last 5 years has done more to increase worldwide hatred for America than anything else...and that hatred is the biggest single threat to our future security.

    I for one, believe that our belligerent foreign policy tone over the last 5 years has done more to increase worldwide hatred for America than anything else...and that hatred is the biggest single threat to our future security.
    ====================================================
    Mike, i have to wonder, do you seriously believe that there was no hatred for us in the world up until 5 years ago? Need I remind you that the first WTC bombing, the Cole and embassy bombings all happened during Clinton's terms.

    This is probably the next crucial debate. Between those that think "everyone will love us if we would just _____" and those who think "everyone is going to hate us no matter what we do".

    Count me in the latter camp. The world has disliked us for quite awhile before Bush and I doubt that will change, even if we engineered the sky to rain gumdrops.

    Brandon, our last two posts crossed "in the mail":

    Now why did you have to stoop to saying something like "time and time again I have expressed my ignorance", or did you really have to state your OPINION about my "limited knowledge"? Is it your desire to live in the gutter and throw around insults, or do you want to exchange ideas in a civilized manner?

    I too have read many of your ultra right wing and condescending posts without responding. I saw many examples of what I consider 'ignorance' and 'intolerance' within many of those posts but I didn't stoop to the level of personal insults.
    You have done that many times, to me and to others.

    Why is it so damned difficult for you to stay on the high road! That belies your claim to being 'highly educated'.

    "our belligerent foreign policy tone over the last 5 years has done more to increase worldwide hatred for America than anything else...and that hatred is the biggest single threat to our future security."

    Why because Castro, Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad continually thumb their noses at us ady-after-day? Name a non-arab country that hates us... and I say hate.

    Grim....two things:

    (1) - Of course I won't deny there was hatred for us before 5 years ago. I just can't see where exponentially increasing this hatred can possibly help our future security.

    The fact that we got attacked by a band of fanatics didn't necessarily mean that we were being too nice to the rest of the world. There will always be fanatics and fringe groups, regardless of what we do. I just don't think creating MORE fanatics and fringe groups is the answer.

    (2) - To your earlier comment about being "penalized for success". That clearly is the way the right views that question, and I think it is the wrong question.

    If you succeed financially in America, it is probably because of the freedoms and the opportunities that America offers. Is it asking too much that you give back what is still a relatively small portion of that success to help the country that helped you?

    The arguement that the rich already pay most of the taxes doesn't hold much water with me. How could it be any other way? Most of the taxes would naturally HAVE to come from where most of the money actually is.

    After Bush suggested escalating the War in Iraq, American General Abazaid has resigned.
    Bush apologists will way it's just a coincidence.

    President Bush did have some advice for America.
    He suggested we "go shopping".
    No greater sacrifice has ever been asked by any American president !

    Former Iraq War supporter MSNBC's Scarborough said last night : "How Can This President Thumb His Nose At The Very Military Leaders Who Are Fighting This War?".

    Each day I wonder where the right is getting their misinformation on the war.
    Everyone American should see this video of last night's segment.

    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/12/21/12969/

    broadcast by the website that has the perfect name for describing this administration: Crooks and liars !

    is everything a conspiracy with you wacko liberalss...?
    Juut because you wake up and there are presents
    under the tree doesn't mean there is a Santa.

    Mike, re your qoute by Cheney, it might be his words or it might be apocryphal. At any rate the sentiment expressed is a valid one. The deficit as a percentage of GNP is the crucial indicatior, therefore the amount of the deficit becomes a problem only when its percentage of the GNP is too high.

    You seem to think the deficit is related to those across the board tax cuts. Yet tax receipts are at an all time high. Could it be that high tax rates put a damper on the economy. That pesky concept of getting more (economic activity that can be taxed) of what you reward with lower tax rates and less (economic activity that can be taxed) of what you punish with high tax rates. JFK started this ball rolling and Ronaldus Magnificus gave it permanent life I hope.

    Remember that luxury tax on boats that pssed in the eighties I think. Not only did tax receipts from the industry go way down, also many boat builders and related service industries tanked with the loss of tens of thousands of jobs. We really stuck it to those evil rich guys. We priced them out of what it was worth to them and caused real economic on those whose livlihood depended on the industry.

    And, as you seem to be a spokesman here for the left, please tell which statement is true. Bush is cutting spending or Bush is spending us into oblivion.

    And as either Brendon or Challenger said why would we fiscal conservatives want to replace what we have with a group who will give us a lot more of what we don't want.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Anon:

    Wrong question! A country cannot possibly hate another country. Individuals within those countries can and do hate us. Iran doesn't hate us, Ahmadinejad does. He just happens to be their president at the moment. He could be gone tomorrow.

    If the somewhat fragile government of Pakistan were to fall tomorrow, they could become our worst nightmare....overnight!

    It seems pretty clear that more INDIVIDUALS in Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, ec., etc, etc. hate us now than 5 years ago. If you don't believe what the man on the street thinks of us is important, just take a look at the success of Hamas and Hisbollah!

    Hamas and Hisbollah! So you can change the way they feel? Many democrats and republicans have tried. That hatred is inbred, and not Bush's fault.

    Ronaldus Magnificus gave it permanent life I hope.

    Otherwise known as "voodoo economics"

    Reagan administration economic policies did not result in a 1960s-style prosperity, when workers' real wages went up in tandem with the value of stock holdings-just the opposite. Since 1980, the gains from U.S. economic growth have gone overwhelmingly to the well-to-do, and economic inequality has steadily worsened. By 2000, the ratio of the family income of the top 5% to that of the bottom 20% stood at 19.1, a dramatic rise over the 1979 ratio of 11.4.Since 2000 the bottom has fallen out for the poor under the Bush Administration. Reagan's economic policies ushered in the return of levels of inequality unseen since the eve of the Great Depression.


    "By Corey Murray, Senior Editor, eSchool News"

    There's an unbiased source.....

    Anon, why would you want to tarnish JFK's legacy by implying he is the father of 'voodoo economics'?

    What tax rates do you reccommend to bring the deficit down and to improve the lives of those who don't pay taxes. I don't pay taxes anymore, but for the life of me I don't understand how punishing others improves my lot. But I can easily see how that would make the lives of younger workers a lot more difficult.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet:

    Cee said "you are tough". Cee is right, you ARE tough, and on the whole, along with Grim, more respectful of the opposition's point of view than most others on this site (left AND right). Thanks you for that. Sometimes this site is nothing more than an insult slugfest.

    If it were not for this war opposition thing, I'm not sure you would see me as a Liberal at all! That depends on just how far to the right you actually are. Most people who actually know me personally would call me a 'moderate'.

    Was Lincoln Chaffee a 'liberal". I admire that man, too bad he lost, even if he was a Republican!

    As for the taxation vs economic stimulation argument, I think achieving the proper 'balance' is the answer. Neither extreme is the answer. You and I might have different opinions as to exactly where that 'balance' point needs to be. For me, the question might be more relevant if we weren't trying to fight an expensive war that we clearly cannot afford.

    The answer to your question: Bush is spending us into oblivion. Was that a test?

    Mike, when you can't respond to the substance of what I say, you attack the style. Typical. When you suceed in getting your little liberal playmates here to stop calling us inbreed, trailer trash, etc, THEN I'll dispense with my insults. But I was just speaking to you in the language you liberals seem to understand best: insults.

    By the way, if you people got out and worked you might be able to afford to go out and shop for Christmas like me.

    Anon 1:31:

    You argue as if hatred were an absolute thing. Either they hate us or they don't!

    I believe the MORE they hate us (or the more of them that hate us), the more we have to worry. Of course, the more radical elements will always hate us, no matter what we do, but they ALL aren't radicals.

    However, were working on that!

    "By Corey Murray, Senior Editor, eSchool News"

    There's an unbiased source.....

    Check out the site yourself,instead of throwing around comments about things you have no idea what you're talking about.

    The 2006 budget is general information.

    Mike- you should start and finish all your posts with "in my opinion." It would give them more merit, as they are based on feelings and hunches rather than facts. You used the word "hate" not me. There are not degrees of hate, you hate or your don't. In my travels abroad, people don't hate america. The majority don't like Bush, but are able to separate their dislike for him from our nation as a whole. You climb aboard your preaching podium and cry about the world hating us as a nation. Its not true. dealt with

    Brandon:

    How about speaking to me, and not "you Liberals". You addressed your codescending 'ignorance' comment to me specifically!

    I didn't call you "inbreed, trailer trash", etc. The only time I've thrown around insults is when that kind of trash was directed at me first.

    I am not "you people". I'm an individual you don't know anything about.

    Who the hell are you to decide who is "working for a living", and who isn't? I'm in business for myself and have worked hard my entire life, and have NEVER recieved a Government handout for anything....not even unemployment. And oh yeah, I'm also a veteran! Go lecture someone else, you hypocrite!

    Unlike intelligent posters like Janet and Grim, your rants do your side no favors!


    Anon:

    Sorry, I'll try to do better! I'm kind of under the impression that everyone understands that it is "my opinion".

    Oh and Anon, I happen to believe our adventure in Iraq HAS increased hatred for America abroad exponentially. They collectively said it was a "bad idea", and we effectively told them to "go to Hell".

    And oh yeah, that is "my opinion"!

    Ok bob heres your "unbiased" #1 story of the YEAR (yes of the frigging YEAR) from your "unbiased" eschool site :

    1. Elections bring a 'changing of the guard': New Democratic majority in Congress set to tackle several education issues.

    When the 110th Congress convenes early next year in Washington, there will be a lot of new faces walking the halls on Capitol Hill--and for the first time in years, the majority of them will be Democrats.

    After a convincing win in the Nov. 7 elections, the new Democratic leadership, led by California Rep. Nancy Pelosi in the House and her colleague, Nevada Sen. Harry Reid, just across the Rotunda, likely will have a significant sway over legislation affecting such issues as school technology funding, student loan interest rates, and the reauthorization of No Child Left Behind in the coming months and years.

    The elections' true impact might not be known for a while. Even though Democrats wrested control over both chambers of Congress from Republicans, their agenda could be curtailed by the threat of a veto from President Bush. Still, Democratic control of Congress means chairmanships of the various committees will fall to Democrats. That could have a significant impact on the legislative priorities of Congress, influencing issues such as federal education funding, 21st century workforce preparedness, and the impending reauthorization of NCLB, which is expected to begin next year.

    By the way bobby if the 2006 budget is "general
    information why did your dumbass have to get
    distilled from eschool????Why couldn't you have
    done the research yourself... you know it's called
    subtraction.

    Mike- my bad- rereading my post- I should have said "in my opinion" also!

    No, not a test Mike. But the same people who shout to the heavens that Bush is cutting spending and killing children on Monday come back on Tuesday to shout to the same heavens that Bush is spending us into oblivion. Granted, they are not mutually exclusive. But the rhetoric they use makes one believe they are.

    And just so we are on the same page does Washington still use projected spending as the basis for claiming spending has been cut. You know, I'm sure, about the shell game that allows them to moan and groan while weeping for the poor when spending is actually increasing but ONLY by 5% intead of the projected 10%. Perfect cover for the cynical manipulative politician.

    You are, of course, right that at some point in either lowering or raising tax rates there is a tipping point beyond which you create chaos. I don't think we have come close to that on the bottom end. On the top end, we had been heading in that direction and JFK put the brakes on and started the downward trend.

    However, there are many western countries that are at that tipping point. Sweden, France and Germany to name a few. Check out the problems they are having that are laid directly at the feet of their tax policies and social programs. And we are responsible to a degree by having make the option too easy for them. Western Europe used defense dollars freed by our being their primary guarantor and bulwark against the Soviets.

    Can't give you a system and rates that I think are too low. But when and if events unfold that appears to be too low or too high I'm sure I'll have an opinion.

    I am very far to the right as I and many others understand it to be. Am I guilty of all the hyperbolic virtual crimes I have been accused by many on the left for years? Nope.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    PS Where do you stand re Ohboy's Habeas Corpus and my two cents worth?

    Shaun at December 21, 2006 11:10 AM....

    Wow, I thought I was reading something from kos...

    You are a parrot of the radical left netroots, Shaun.

    I don't listen to Hannity, I know this may be hard for you to do, but I think for myself.

    Your analysis of Lieberman is flawed. He was consistent throughout the primary and in the general election in CONTRASTING himself from the cut and run representative from the radical left....and a BIG majority in Connecticut put him back into Congress none-the-less. The empty suit you guys put up ran on his war stance and was rejected.

    The war stance you and Lamont have is a minority position, Shaun, please stop deluding yourself.

    The speculation on 2008 is right off the kos website....you should be ashamed about stealing their material.

    After two years of a Democratic run Congress and gridlock, America will not give more power to the nuts on the left and I predict a closely split Congress.....with The Senate going Republican....The exectutive branch will stay in the safe care of The Republicans...the party of adults.

    The Dems will be torn asunder over those great choices on the left, with the primaries requiring membership in the communist party.....America will see the true soul of the party. Running so far to the left to get those nasty hippie primary votes like your's Shaun will make it hard for the candidates to look moderate for the general election.

    I can't wait to see Hill try to out lib Obama (the born again Christian, BTW) and Edwards. It would be even better if Gore gets in the mix....ooo yeah!

    Janet:

    You're not going to let me go on that "habeaus Corpus" issue, are you?

    I have a business to and I haven't had time to research it any further but I have for now, pretty much accepted Ohboy's analysis. Even he admitted that the truth is somewhere between Olbermann's rants and the "nothing has changed" argument, as 'truth' so often turns out to be. If you missed it, he did concede that Military Commisions did leave some potential for abuse.

    As for historical perspective, I just cannot accept that today's reality rivals those of the Civil War and WWII. Therefore, such drastic measures would be questionable at best.

    If today's relaity really does rival those that are so often used as analogies, we better quit shopping and gear up for a long struggle with shared sacrifices!

    Gotta go for now!

    And for those who hate Ann Coulter.....

    What was factually wrong about her comments in my 9AM post?....

    "Last year, Osama bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, wrote to the head of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, telling him to 'be ready starting now' for America to run from Iraq, reminding him how America cut and ran from Vietnam and the 'aftermath of the collapse of American power in Vietnam, and how they ran and left their agents.'

    "Alas, Zarqawi never got to implement his Iraq takeover plan because the same troops that are allegedly losing the war right now killed him in June.

    "But al-Qaida in America isn't ready to quit, yet!"

    Don't blame Coultergeist that your conclusions on Iraq exactly mirror al-Qaida's!

    & David Duke's!
    & Mahmoud's!
    & Saddam's!
    & Representative Kusinich's!
    & Michael Moore's!
    & Keith Olbermann's!
    & Barbara Streisand's!
    & Rosie O'Donnell's!
    & _______________'s (please join the fun!)

    Lapdog:After two years of a Democratic run Congress and gridlock, America will not give more power to the nuts on the left and I predict a closely split Congress.....with The Senate going Republican....The exectutive branch will stay in the safe care of The Republicans...the party of adults.

    But then again, he also predicted the GOP would keep both houses of Congress last month.
    TDF.

    "The party of adults".Another laugher.
    The party of crooks, liars and corporate welfare.

    let's not forget how Hastert enabled the GOP pedaphiles.
    GOP Grand Ole Pedaphile Party.

    No I didn't....I made 3 other predictions last month....

    1) My conservative, pro-life representative would be re-elected.

    2) Joe Lieberman would be re-elected.

    3) And The New York Giants would win their division.

    Like Meatloaf said....."2 out of 3 ain't bad."

    Lapdog carefully omits that the past 6 years of Republican rule in the Congress was one of the most unproductive periods in American history.
    They earned their name "the Do-Nothing" Congress.

    Meathead likes Meatloaf.

    Just another of life's little ironies.

    Mike, apparently once again you don't know what you're talking about. I documented many, many, many posts at the liberal websites were praise was being heaped upon Castro and Chavez. LOOK for it in the archives here, I'm not about to go back and do all that work again for your edification because you were too dumb to absorb it the last time. But for the record, I found hundreds of posts where multiple and many posters were heaping praise upon these brutal dictators. It's not my fault you refuse to believe that's the case, but again if you educated yourself before you shot your mouth off yet again about something you have no idea what you're talking about, you might not embarrass yourself quite so often.


    "browse up to late last night and the early AM and check out what a real insult is. Or, for that matter just do a survey through ramdom threads and see who is saying what."


    I have. the insults are equally nasty both ways. From the left and the right.

    "If memory serves me right you and I had a back and forth about this re MJF' add. At that time you accused me of thowing my own bricks in response to liitle things like moonbats (sorry, in some cases this is approriate)wishing I would get Parkinsons and die a long slow death and accusing me of every mental and moral depravity known to man."

    Your memory does not serve you correctly. I was in fact very respectful to you in my argument regarding MJF. You had multiple arguments on the subject and you are mixing some of our discussions with others you have argued with. I brought up no insignificant amount of research on the MJF issue which you promised you would get back to me on. I also wrote I was sorry that you were suffering from your own disease. i have the post and would be happy to re-submit it if you like?

    Now in fairness I have ripped the hell out of others on this site, so I make no pretense of being an Angel. I have in fact, been beyond rude at times. I have also been dealt with pretty rudely. My point is that you are acting as though the liberals on this site have some sort of monopoly on nastiness when I see just as much of it from the right.

    “You really would carry more weight with me if you developed a better sense of proportion about what you consider name calling.”

    I consider “moonbat” name calling. I also consider “wingnut” name calling. I consider calling someone a @#!@! to also be name calling. This site is littered with it. Left and Right and you would carry more weight with me if your complaint was directed both ways instead of selectively ignoring when your team does it.


    If you succeed financially in America, it is probably because of the freedoms and the opportunities that America offers. Is it asking too much that you give back what is still a relatively small portion of that success to help the country that helped you?

    The arguement that the rich already pay most of the taxes doesn't hold much water with me. How could it be any other way? Most of the taxes would naturally HAVE to come from where most of the money actually is.
    ==================================================
    I see in response to a typical "right-wing" answer you respond with a typical "left-wing" answer. lol ;-)

    I have two problems with that thinking.
    1) First of all, it sounds too much like mobster thinking. In fact it makes taxes sound almost exactly like "protection" money.
    2) It also assumes that the rich don't "give" anything back to begin with. Which is a lie since they provide jobs, innovations, charities... I could go on and on with all the things the rich WILLINGLY do that benefit the society they prospered in. And this isn't just theory, I LIVE that philisophy as I was hired by a small company (we're just now approaching 50 employees) started by 2 brothers that are now quite wealthy. If it wasn't for them, I'd have a much worse job. (and I did for awhile)
    3) Of course the argument doesn't carry much weight with you if you misconstrude it that way. What do you think about a flat tax? Everyone pays say... 10% of their income (if their income is above a certain level) and that's it. The problem is exactly what I stated it as: the more you "succeed" the more you pay in taxes. and I'm not talking flat dollar amounts, I'm talking percentages.
    Examples:
    You make $100 and pay $10 in taxes.
    The next week, you make $1,000 and pay $500 in taxes.

    Now does that seem fair?

    Professor Bunsen Honeydew is assuming again.....

    Not a big fan....of Meatloaf....just know the song.....

    Although, it makes me wonder if he was singing about the professor's "first time."

    Cee,

    "The war stance you and Lamont have is a minority position, Shaun, please stop deluding yourself."

    I'm sorry, was it the CNN, Gallup, or _______ (insert poll here) that now consistently show that 50-70% of American wants the troops home immediately or by a set date? Oh yeah, IT'S ALL OF THEM! A BIG majority, you fool? How is 50% EXACTLY a big majority? LOL... You should find out what you are talking about before making wild claims. He won with 50% of the vote. That is in no way, shape or form a 'big' majority.

    As for 2008, go to Hotline, Cook Political Report, The Fix, or even Wikipedia, for christ's sake, so you can educate yourself about who and what seats are up for re-election. Repulicans are defending 21 seats, whereas the Dems only have 12 to defend.

    And as for the Presidency... why do you think there are so many legitimate, experienced candidates (Clinton, Edwards, Gore possibly, Kerry, Biden, and others) on the Democratic side vying for the nomination? It's hard for a popular President's party to extend their hold on the White House after holding it for eight years. Shrub's father did it for one term. I think we can all agree *laughing uncontrollably* that Shrub is anything but popular, and will be even less so by the time '08 rolls around. And with McCain with his head stuck so far up Shrub's ass, it will make it that much more difficult for the R's to hold the Presidency.

    I notice that you don't respond to any of the facts that I provided about why the Dems didn't win more seats than they did. It's because you have no response and the truth hurts.

    You know, to really appreciate how badly R's got their asses handed to them this past November, ponder this: this is the first election in 75 years or so that the Republicans did not pick up a single house seat, a single senate seat, or a single state house. You were completely SHUT OUT! It was a complete and total rejection of the party. Congrats!

    "Tofutti---

    You advocate mandatory service but then you said you would have your children opt out if it was a war you didn't agree with. How the heck does that help with anything? Say 88% of the populace didn't agree with a war and wouldn't go...how is that mandatory?"

    That's liberty. That's free people operating in a free society. How badly does a war have to be concieved and prosected for waves of refusals to serve to manifest themselves? Pretty damn bad.

    People always have the option to refuse - some are dong it now - they face the music in the courtroom, but that's part of their statement.

    This should have been separated:
    Cee,

    "The war stance you and Lamont have is a minority position, Shaun, please stop deluding yourself."

    I'm sorry, was it the CNN, Gallup, or _______ (insert poll here) that now consistently show that 50-70% of American wants the troops home immediately or by a set date? Oh yeah, IT'S ALL OF THEM!

    "and a BIG majority in Connecticut put him back into Congress none-the-less."

    A BIG majority, you fool? How is 50% EXACTLY a big majority? LOL... You should find out what you are talking about before making wild claims. He won with 50% of the vote. That is in no way, shape or form a 'big' majority.

    & _______________'s (please join the fun!)

    Let's !:

    The wisdom of George W. Bush: Updated daily

    1. "Make no mistake about it, I understand how tough it is, sir. I talk to families who die." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 7, 2006

    Dubya sees dead people !

    2. "This business about graceful exit just simply has no realism to it at all." --George W. Bush, on speculation that U.S. troops could be withdrawn from Iraq, Amman, Jordan, Nov. 30, 2006

    3. "The only way we can win is to leave before the job is done." --George W. Bush, Greeley, Colo., Nov. 4, 2006

    4. "Anybody who is in a position to serve this country ought to understand the consequences of words." --George W. Bush, interview with Rush Limbaugh, Nov. 1, 2006

    5. "You know, when I campaigned here in 2000, I said, I want to be a war President. No President wants to be a war President, but I am one." --George W. Bush, Des Moines, Iowa, Oct. 26, 2006

    6. "We're never been stay the course, George." --George W. Bush, attempting to distance himself from what has been his core strategy in Iraq for the last three years, interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, Oct. 22, 2006

    7. "One has a stronger hand when there's more people playing your same cards." --George W. Bush, on holding six-party talks with North Korea, Washington, D.C., Oct. 11, 2006

    WTF?

    8. "I will not withdraw, even if Laura and Barney are the only ones supporting me." --George W. Bush, talking to key Republicans about Iraq, as quoted by Bob Woodward

    9. "I like to tell people when the final history is written on Iraq, it will look like just a comma because there is -- my point is, there's a strong will for democracy." --George W. Bush, interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, Sept. 24, 2006

    10. "You're one of the outstanding leaders in a very important part of the world. I want to thank you for strategizing our discussions." --George W. Bush, meeting with the prime minister of Malaysia, New York, N.Y., Sept. 18, 2006

    11. "The Patriot Act has increased the flow of information within our government and it has helped break up terrorist cells in the United States of America. And the United States Congress was right to renew the terrorist act -- the Patriot Act." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C. , Sept. 7, 2006

    12. "You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --George W. Bush, interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006

    yes it is George !

    13. "I said I was looking for a book to read, Laura said you ought to try Camus. I also read three Shakespeares. ... I've got a eck-a-lec-tic reading list." --George W. Bush, interview with NBC's Brian Williams, New Orleans, La., Aug. 29, 2006

    A CLASSIC !

    14. "And I suspect that what you'll see, Toby, is there will be a momentum, momentum will be gathered. Houses will begat jobs, jobs will begat houses." --George W. Bush, talking to reporters along the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast, Gulfport, Miss., Aug. 28, 2006

    15. "I would guess, I would surmise that some of the more spectacular bombings are done by al Qaeda suiciders." --George W. Bush, on violence in Iraq, Washington, D.C., Aug. 21, 2006

    This is just a partial list of the wit and wisdom of the "Decider" just in the last 4 months.

    Oh I just can't help myself.

    "I'm the decider, and I decide what is best. And what's best is for Don Rumsfeld to remain as the Secretary of Defense." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C. April 18, 2006

    FLIP FLOP !

    I think we are now up to around 6 volumes of books of Bushisms.
    2 more years to go too.

    Reagan administration economic policies did not result in a 1960s-style prosperity, when workers' real wages went up in tandem with the value of stock holdings-just the opposite. Since 1980, the gains from U.S. economic growth have gone overwhelmingly to the well-to-do, and economic inequality has steadily worsened. By 2000, the ratio of the family income of the top 5% to that of the bottom 20% stood at 19.1, a dramatic rise over the 1979 ratio of 11.4.Since 2000 the bottom has fallen out for the poor under the Bush Administration. Reagan's economic policies ushered in the return of levels of inequality unseen since the eve of the Great Depression.
    ==================================================
    Now there's a fundamental difference between two points of view. Bob rattles of stats about "inequality" and assumes the argument is over. People like me look at it and go 'so'? There is ALWAYS going to be inequality (unless you live in communism where everyone is equally poor), what does it matter how much or the ratio it is? Would it even matter if the ration was 50 or higher as long as the bottom 20% had housing, transportation and food?

    One of the leading problems of the 'poor' in this country is obesity! I have to wonder Bob, what exactly does it mean when the bottom rung of society are eating too much?

    kos, kos, kos (Shaun)....

    "or by a set date?" That brings in a lot of people who disagree with Ned Lamont's immediate withdrawal opinion. What date?

    12/12/06....."In the CBS poll, 93% support either ending our involvement or a change in tactics. The country appears pretty evenly divided between the "keep fighting" option (47%) and the "start ending involvement" option (50%)."

    Again, specifics are not mentioned in the polling....Not a clear majority, kos.

    Furthermore you idiot......

    "18% have a "great deal" of trust in the President to do the right thing as compared to only 14% for Democratic leaders. The military and defense department clearly has the most confidence among the public as 81% trust them to recommend the right thing.

    "The fact that Senator McCain (who has been pushing for more troops) outpolls Democratic leaders in Congress by 5 points coupled with the overwhelmingly strong support for the military and defense department is moderately encouraging results for Republicans and tends to confirm the thesis that the election results were more of a repudiation of Bush's Iraq policy rather than a broad embrace of Democratic leadership."

    14% trust your ilk, kos....Yeah, that's gonna translate into a victory in '08.

    Polls don't matter...but I just wanted to show you that The Democratic Party fares even more poorly than our fine President.

    National Defense Policy will never be a stong suit of the left in this country. Reasonable people just do not trust their lives to a bunch of whiners, like you kos.

    One of the leading problems of the 'poor' in this country is obesity!

    Grim just failed sociology 101.

    I have to wonder Bob, what exactly does it mean when the bottom rung of society are eating too much?

    Go ahead people, hit that hanging curve ball out of the park.

    TDF

    Tell that to Rush Blimpbaugh.

    Professor Honeydew is busy pasting from the multitude of liberal nutroot sites....

    Keep up the good work professor....you make al-Qaida in America (AQA) proud!

    Brandon,

    Thank you for responding to my request from this morning regarding the dangers you percieve as facing the United States from Castro and Chavez.

    However, I did not see much in the way of "dangers" included in your posts. You chose sources that identify why the respective countries of these leaders might not be idyllic places to live, but I see no rationale listed as to why we should consider these countries as enemies.

    These leaders are indeed openly dismissive of our boy-president, but so am I.

    Professor Honeydew is busy pasting from the multitude of liberal nutroot sites....

    like Simon and Schuster.
    That bastion of the left.

    Keep up the good work professor....you make al-Qaida in America (AQA) proud!

    Doesn't hold a candle to the invasion of Iraq.

    Touche!


    Lapdog dismisses that his president is a total embarassment to all educated ( English speaking ) Americans everywhere.

    I don't really get your draft argument. For clarification on my end; I advocate a permanent, universal draft for a whole range of service. Right out of Hish School, every youngster would enter two years of mandatory service ranging from military, conservation, urban renewal, hospital work, etc. This would have the efects of uniting our society by shared experience and also waken the younsters to the fact that their fates are ties to our government's policies.
    =====================================================
    Well... we disagree on that then I guess.
    Of course, you could just say that every kid ought to be enrolled in boy/girl scouts while in high school since all of those things are done (I know, I helped out a church camp for my eagle project). Also, aren't kids nowadays volunteering for most of that stuff anyway? Anyone have stats? It may have changed by now but I thought I heard somewhere that teens were volunteering in record numbers in hospitals etc.

    So beef... basically you want to take away teens' freedom and force them (or rather, a minority - unless, again, someone can bring up the stats and clarify) to do something? Didn't hitler have something like that???
    "After 1938, the Hitler Youth was a compulsory organization, mandatory for all young German men."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Youth

    Posted by: Challenger Grim at December 21, 2006 11:54 AM
    -----------------------------------


    ...and Israel does it today - it works great for them.

    Are you comparing Israel with Nazi Germany, Grim?


    ...and as for "taking away teens' freedom"; do you advocate doing away with compulsory high schol education?

    Grim was the poster boy for NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND.


    Just kidding Grimsley.

    One of the leading problems of the 'poor' in this country is obesity!

    Grim just failed sociology 101.

    I have to wonder Bob, what exactly does it mean when the bottom rung of society are eating too much?

    Go ahead people, hit that hanging curve ball out of the park.

    TDF

    Tell that to Rush Blimpbaugh.
    ===================================================
    Actually Bob, I passed sociology 101 with flying colors. (want to see my grade transcript?)

    But of course, please, do us the honor of your own dirty work and "hit the ball out of the park" as you like to put it. Or do you want my stats now? After all, we all enjoy that red glow of your embarressment.

    OK Tofutti---

    So we can have any number of people opt out of a "madatory" (your word) action. THEN HOW THE HECK IS IT MANDATORY???????

    And from your stance on it, I will assume you mean without consequences, yes?
    So:
    Sports stars lining up for mandatory drug tests can say no and go on playing
    People can opt out on their tax responsibilities and the govt goes "oh well"
    Welfare & unemployment recipients can continue to receive benefits without trying to get a job/improve their situation

    I really like this election post mortem that really is the truth about people like kos (Shaun)

    "Yes, there is justice. Joe took a brave stand by putting country before party. Despite the fevered efforts of the McGovenites with Modems, the sensible voters of Connecticut rejected polarization and partisanship.

    "Don't believe the pathetic nutroots spin. In August, they engaged in premature triumphalism believing that they vanquished the vital center. One even indicated that he had ominous plans to obliterate the organization that Joe once led. No, they did not need the dreaded establishment. All they needed were their trusted keyboards and their internet access.

    "Bloviating bloggers had rushed to the Nutmeg State to hop aboard the Lamont bus with laptops in hand. Indeed, the candidate was their creation. He was their central project. And this "people power" populist plutocrat poured millions of his own fortune into the race. While the nutroots are fervent, they are also cheap.

    "As the Moose used to say in Texas, the nutroots were all hat and no cattle. Alas, the internet emperors wear no clothes! MSM take note. Kos and Sirota are out. Gerstein and Sun are in.

    "Now, these tough blogosphere operatives kvetch, moan and cry. Their champion has lost and these puerile puppies complain that the loathed "establishment" did not stand by their man. They cannot handle the truth. Polarization is passe."

    ...and Israel does it today - it works great for them.

    Are you comparing Israel with Nazi Germany, Grim?


    ...and as for "taking away teens' freedom"; do you advocate doing away with compulsory high schol education?
    =====================================================
    Actually, yeah I do vote for doing away with compulsory education. (of course, with drop out rates, I wonder how much good it's doing now) But that's a much longer discussion for another time.

    As for Isreal, no, I wasn't, but with people like you always talking about the impeding fascism of America, I was just wondering why you would suggest something that would probably hasten that result.

    Let me clear something up for everyone: Sometimes what I post is not my own thoughts, but a logical extension/result of your own statements. Think about that.

    "And I guess the idea of Iran obtaining nuclear weapons doesn't bother you in the least. "

    Well, Brandon, I consider a shame when any new country enters the nuclear club - too bad this goof-ball president has undermined the UN and IAEA to such a degree, and elevated the law of the jungle to the point at which many nations have started to think along such lines in the interests of self-defense and sovereignty.

    Happily, the recent elections in Iran showed a strong distaste for Ahmadinead's party, losing it many seats in favor of a more moderate, less religous set of politicians. Mahmoud has also been openly boo-ed at a number of recent speaking appearances. These are encouraging signs of moderation in Iran - possibly in reaction of Ahmadinejad's posturing on the nuclear issue (wouldn't you think that solar power would be a natural for Iran?)

    But if Bush, Cheney, Kristol, Krauthammer, Kagan, Kagan, Kagan, etc, have their way, we will attack this country based on some trumped-up infraction (remember, Iran is signatory to the non-proliferation treaty, and they have not demonstrably broken this agreement in any way) and the natural reaction will be a clamping-down of the power-structure, and a reactionary upsurge in nationalism. Possibly the beat gift we could give to Ahmadinejad - much the same way the Iraq war has been a windfall for Osama.

    The Iranians look back on a much longer history than ours, and their pride and unity can be made monolithic through foreign adversity (look at the berserker mode in which they responded to the atacks by Iraq that we fomented in the 1980's).

    Belligerence is NOT the way to ameliorate the Iranian standoff - diplomacy and cultural intercourse are.

    Grim---

    For God's sake, do NOT post things like those last couple sentences when Tofutti & Bob are about....Bob may just send 1600 UNscientists after you!

    "As for Isreal, no, I wasn't, but with people like you always talking about the impeding fascism of America, I was just wondering why you would suggest something that would probably hasten that result."

    Oh, I strongly disagree. Now, if these service corps were called "Bush-scouts" or something, and the idea was to emulate the Dear Leader, then I would agree. I know peole ou there - some posters at this site - would advocate such a model, and probably as we speak have their tots pledging their lives and sweat and blood to the Gautlier of Crawford, but there would, of course, be no political component to this mode of national service, and the only ideology to be stressed would be responsible citizenship.

    Fred bear : People can opt out on their tax responsibilities and the govt goes "oh well"

    Only the very rich or as Bush calls them" My People " !

    all the rest do "time ".


    Welfare & unemployment recipients can continue to receive benefits without trying to get a job/improve their situation

    In NJ , you get 6 months of unemployment benefits, then you are cut off.

    Well, Brandon, I consider a shame when any new country enters the nuclear club - too bad this goof-ball president has undermined the UN and IAEA to such a degree, and elevated the law of the jungle to the point at which many nations have started to think along such lines in the interests of self-defense and sovereignty.
    =====================================================
    I'm still curious as to how Bush undermined the UN when he was the one making an effort to enforce its resolutions in the first place.

    Of course I'm sure the oil-for-food scandal, the sex-for-food scandals and so on have done plenty to undermine the UN.

    Janet,

    I am not suggesting that you are not entitled to defend yourself, when someone attacks you. I am just pointing out that the nastiness is coming from both sides of the spectrum.

    "So we can have any number of people opt out of a "madatory" (your word) action. THEN HOW THE HECK IS IT MANDATORY???????

    And from your stance on it, I will assume you mean without consequences, yes?
    "


    You can assume whatever the hell you want, Bear; but if you read my posts you will find that I explicitly stated more than once that facing the legal consequences is the only civically responsible way to follow through on such a refusal.

    Critical mass is how grass-roots civil disobedience becomes a political tool and weapon. The courts can only handle so many refusal cases without choking and/or terminal embarrassment for the administration in charge. The draft-dodgers who fled to Canada during the Vietnam War are not to be admired for running off in this way - had they faced the music as they should have I believe the war would have ended sooner. I see such time in court/prison - willingly accepted as part of a moral objection to a particualr war - to be as honorable a service to our nation as would be serving in a just war.

    Brandon:

    I really don't care how many posts you find on "Liberal websites" 'praising' Chavez and his ilk! I'm not part of that culture and that is not representative of the real world. Any fool knows you can find any sort of nut you want to find posting on websites, and most of the time, they are not really representative of the left OR the right. They are often so extreme, they defy classification.

    Like every human being that ever lived on this earth, Chavez is not ALL bad. Neither is Bush ALL bad. But neither one of them is hitting on much right now as a leader. Now don't go spinning that statement into me saying Bush is as bad as Chavez either, because I didn't say that.

    But in my opinion, Venezuela deserves better, but that's THEIR problem. We deserve better too, and thats OUR problem!


    Oh, I strongly disagree. Now, if these service corps were called "Bush-scouts" or something, and the idea was to emulate the Dear Leader, then I would agree. I know peole ou there - some posters at this site - would advocate such a model, and probably as we speak have their tots pledging their lives and sweat and blood to the Gautlier of Crawford, but there would, of course, be no political component to this mode of national service, and the only ideology to be stressed would be responsible citizenship.
    =====================================================
    Well here's a thought Beef: if there was such a thing in place when Bush was elected, might it have then become the "Bush-scouts" (actually I think he would have named it the "texas-rangers-jr")?

    Answer me honestly, does this idea (or any of yours) take into account the possibility of 'right-wingers' taking over the program and then using it for their gain?

    Posted by: Bob at December 21, 2006 04:05 PM
    ----

    Good God Bob...and you are a professor?

    Please read the previous posts in the back-and-forth you jumped into with this post...then maybe you would have a context for what was going on and make a relevant contribution to the process instead of sounding like Roseanne singing the National Anthem

    Keith should take a pay-cut.
    Last place in the ratings....anyone can do that....hehehehhehehehe...lol.

    What the GOP bashers on this site fail to understand is that not all of us here who dislike Olbermann are Republicans/Conservatives. I'm not. I just don't like Olbermann. And for your information, I never supported this war nor do I like Bush one iota. But does that make all Republicans evil and all conservative ideas bad? No. And does it make all Democrats shining beacons of love and sunshine truth, honesty and integrity? Hell no. We're just as often as wrong-headed about issues as the GOP. I really did used to like Olbermann. I even posted here at Olbermannwatch and defended him a few times. But than he began to slide over to the really radical left side. And I realized that a lot of criticisim about him I read here was entirely valid. He doesn't have people on with opposing views. And I have absolutely seen him NOT report stories that made Democrats look bad. And at the same time, I'd pick up these interviews with him or watch him on tv in an interview or listen to him on the radio and he'd be swearing up and down how he wasn't biased and didn't vote, etc. And I slowly began to realize what a fake, fraud, and liar he was. And then I lost all respect for him. He says he doesn't vote because of the way it would look. Yet he thinks nothing of handing a check to Clinton on tv, going to his birthday party, going to Al Gore's film premiere, etc. Hey Keith, if you really are THAT concerned with your image and how things look? Stop hitting the Democratic party circuit. And don't even get me started on his horrible Murrow impressions. You notice how he brings up Edward R. Murrow in every interview he can if the interviewer somehow fails to? Develop your own style Keithy and stop copying someone who has been dead for decades. And if you really want to be like Murrow you'll book guests on your show that aren't all Democratic/liberal and every once in awhile you'll blast the Dems/Liberals with a commentary instead of the GOP/conservatives. That's when I'll believe you're telling the truth and are what you have the vast majority of your fans fooled into thinking you really are.

    P.S.: I've never understood the love for Castro & Chavez either. Both are dictators and have tortured their own people, and silenced anyone who tried to oppose them. From what I read, Chavez is strengthening his military and trying to rally support for his anti-American sentiments in South/Central America. He's one to watch as is Iran's president. I don't care if they don't like Bush but I care very much if they have the capability to attack this country.

    "I'm still curious as to how Bush undermined the UN when he was the one making an effort to enforce its resolutions in the first place."

    Well, he attacked Iraq when UN arms inspectors were in the country and doing the job dictated by the UN resolutions. Bush had to explicitly warn them to to leave.

    So by punishing a country for flaunting UN Resolutions - at a time when that country was in fact living up to the demands of the resoluton - Bush did in fact have an undermining effect on the UN's standing. His underlings' continual bad-mouthing and insulting of the institution hasn't helped either. ...not to mention our support of Israel in its overt flaunting over the years of multiple General Assembly resolutions.

    Brandon:

    Brandon,

    I know of rightwingers who beleive the only sensible solution to the mideast is to nuke the region and take the oil. Now some--about 98% of the country, would call that crazy. There are also people, who think Castro is great cuddly grandfather. Some--again about 98% of the country would call them crazy or at the least seriously mis-informed.

    Finding an extreme viewpoint really doesn't prove much.

    jt, first things first. If memory serves me this time, didn't I ask you to provide me citations on some point you made that I was not well informed on. Also, I'm certain I did respond to every point you made except the one that I needed more info.

    So,yes, please do. I would also appreciate any info you have on the date so that I can refresh my memory.

    On this secondary issue of name calling I disagree with you. There is a difference of degree and kind. And there is also the matter of provocation. Misdemeanor versus felony. "Fighting words' versus a justified response.

    I am not complaining or reacting to a few unpleasant words in the heat of passion. If an apology is demanded the offending party should proffer it post haste. However, what do you consider an appropriate response to a steady drumbeat by the same individuals for months on end.

    "All the moonbats accusing others of parroting Rush, BOR, Hannity etc." This comment may have been a bit lax in structure by not being specific enough, but it was directed at those who consistently accuse many others, and me, practically every time we post of being brainwashed and then like Pavlov's dogs go on to their standard racist, incestuous, inbred, Christonazi etc charming way of reasoned discourse.

    Jt, just like you are responsible for what you say, so am I. I don't hold you accountable for those who share your philosophy calling me things that are so reprehensible that if stated publicly in front of the men in my family would no doubt cause a fracas at the least. Nor should you hold me responsible for what those who share my philosophy says to you and others.

    I have criticised them vehemently in the past. I have yet to be accorded the same courtesy from your side.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    If calling Ned Lamont the netroots pet project is what you have to tell yourself to make your party seem like they are not as big of losers as they are, have at it.

    The netroots pet project was doing everything possible to ensure that the Dems won the House and Senate. Guess what? We were successful. Jon Tester and Jim Webb were as big to us as Ned Lamont was. Ned Lamont, however, did what the others could not, and that was make Iraq the central front in the '06 elections. (See what I did there?). Any Dem who didn't see Iraq for what it was

    Wherever you obtained the quotes you rec'd are all spin and are trying to demean what we accomplished this year. Unlike the "Rightroots" (HA!), the netroots have tons of sucesses to boast about. Like Carol Shea-Porter who was abandoned by the DCCC, because they didn't they she was 'centrist' enough. Also, there was Yarmouth who beat Northrup in KY, which no one expected. Again, Yarmouth, was deemed too 'liberal' for the DCCC and he still won, thanks to support from the netroots. Not to mention all we did for Jim Webb (who flat out said, he wouldn't have been able to win without us) and Jon Tester. I could go on and on, but there's no need to.

    Sour grapes doesn't even begin to explain your lame and pathetic attempts at demeaning the netroots.

    I understand though. You're forgiven.

    I am going to copy and paste this part again, because it's just so damn fun:

    You know, to really appreciate how badly R's got their asses handed to them this past November, ponder this: this is the first election in 75 years or so that the Republicans did not pick up a single house seat, a single senate seat, or a single state house. You were completely SHUT OUT! It was a complete and total rejection of the party. Congrats!

    What the liberal apologists here won't admit is that those opinions are far from isolated incidents at the liberal websites. They are the prevailing and often-stated opinions of many, many posters at the most popular liberal websites (Kos & DU). You people are trying to downplay it like it's one or two isolated posts by one or two individuals but it's far from that as the links I posted the other day proved beyond a doubt.

    And if you can't see the problem with Iran & South Korea gaining nuclear weapons in the middle of two very strategic regions than I don't know what else I can say. You seem to think that because Bush says it's bad then it's automatically wrong. But more voices than Republican ones are also worried about these situations. Are you so blinded by your hatred of all things Republican that you can't see the long-range implications of nuclear weapons in the hands of these dicators?

    And Brandon:

    Once again, you can't resist posting trash like saying I'm "too dumb".....! You really just don't know how to take yourself out of the gutter, do you?

    Ok you moron, I'll sink to your level. You are clearly just too stupid to see how ignorant most of your own posts sound.

    The smarter one becomes, the more insight they have into how much they have to learn. The less the know, the more they think they know. The latter describes you perfectly!

    "Both are dictators and have tortured their own people, and silenced anyone who tried to oppose them. From what I read, Chavez is strengthening his military and trying to rally support for his anti-American sentiments in South/Central America."

    Tortured their own people? Examples please? I am not disputing you here, I just have never heard or read ANYONE list a single case of torture or summary execution on the heads of either of these leaders. Please inform.


    "silenced anyone who tried to oppose them"? I have seen lists of this sort generated for the Castro regime, but where does Chavez figure here? Through two national elections, one attempted military coup, and one special recall referrendum, Chavez has not once jailed a single journalist or closed a single newspaper. The mush maligned "personal repsonsibility" legislation he passed is no more eggregious than Great Britain's "State Secrets" laws or our own Alien and Sedition Acts, which have recently been revived in spirit.

    Calling Chavez a Dictator is fatuous. His electons were more closely monitored by international agencies than are our own, and fewer irregulaities were noted.

    So by punishing a country for flaunting UN Resolutions - at a time when that country was in fact living up to the demands of the resoluton - Bush did in fact have an undermining effect on the UN's standing. His underlings' continual bad-mouthing and insulting of the institution hasn't helped either. ...not to mention our support of Israel in its overt flaunting over the years of multiple General Assembly resolutions.
    =====================================================
    Beef, PLEASE tell me that last sentence was a joke or else I'll have to conclude that it's impossible to have a conversation with you. I mean, have you seen all of them?
    http://www.middleeastnews.com/unresolutionslist.html

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I really don't care how many posts you find on "Liberal websites" 'praising' Chavez and his ilk! I'm not part of that culture and that is not representative of the real world. Any fool knows you can find any sort of nut you want to find posting on websites, and most of the time, they are not really representative of the left OR the right. They are often so extreme, they defy classification.
    ===================================================
    Mike, I just want you to note what Beef posted up there. In fact, do a google search of "un resolutions on israel". How many does there have to be to become 'representative'?

    Brandon:

    Did you mean "North" Korea in your post above?

    The question is not whether we "see the problem"! The question is what do you propose to do about it? How much do you actually think America is empowered to do to change things we don't like about this world?

    I see Pakistan as just as worrisome as either one of those two. They could have a regime change tomorrow, and then we might well have an enemy with nuclear weapons and the ability to deliver them.

    ADDENDUM:

    I wrote above:

    "I just have never heard or read ANYONE list a single case of torture or summary execution on the heads of either of these leaders."

    I should have added "since the Revolution" in Castro's case.

    Grim,
    other than your apparent appoplexy regarding my citation of the numerous standing GA reslutions against Israel, I have no idea what your objections are in this regard.

    Well, I can see our work is done here. Bob, Mike, JT, we can go.. These people have worked themselves into a frenzy... LOL... This was the "LIB'RULLS" coordinated attempt to hijack your site...

    Before you crazies start reaching for your assault rifles and rounding up the chil'ren, I don't know the above poster and I'm just kidding, but this site has gone over the deep end today...

    Well, I can see our work is done here. Bob, Mike, JT, we can go.. These people have worked themselves into a frenzy... LOL... This was the "LIB'RULLS" coordinated attempt to hijack your site...

    Before you crazies start reaching for your assault rifles and rounding up the chil'ren, I don't know the above poster and I'm just kidding, but this site has gone over the deep end today...

    Grim:

    The 'Right' continually trash the UN as 'effective' and 'irrelevant'. They may be right.

    Keeping that in mind, this same 'right' also constantly use the argument that we were "enforcing UN resolutions" when we invaded Iraq. Either we think this organization, and it's resolutions, are relevant, or we don't.

    Brandon, you really should point out the contradiction the posters have found themselves in:
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I know of rightwingers who beleive the only sensible solution to the mideast is to nuke the region and take the oil. Now some--about 98% of the country, would call that crazy. There are also people, who think Castro is great cuddly grandfather. Some--again about 98% of the country would call them crazy or at the least seriously mis-informed.

    Finding an extreme viewpoint really doesn't prove much.
    ===================================================
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    The netroots pet project was doing everything possible to ensure that the Dems won the House and Senate. Guess what? We were successful.
    ===================================================

    Those "extreme" viewpoints were part of the netroots project, no? So if the netroots projects were successful in obtaining election victory in a democracy then...
    1) Either JT is wrong and it is in fact a majority view as the elections demonstrate.
    OR
    2) Shaun is wrong and the netroots got lucky with an election coicidence this time around.

    So, who is wrong? JT or Shaun?

    Mike,

    Apparently Brandon has forgotten that the pet arms proliferator of Bush's buddy Musharraf - A.Q. Khan - sold a slew of nuclear tech to N Korea on Bush's watch - and was allowed to retire in comfort with his fortune and freedom intact.

    Number of nuclear weapons in N Korea in 2000: Zero.

    Number of nuclear weapons in N Korea in 2006: Six...no, make that five - they blew one up.

    I'm sorry, just like some of you crazy sons of bitches on this site say some ridiculous and crazy things does not mean that the person that said it is automatically a spokesperson for that site. Every blog is going to have people who are "extreme".

    You're arguing against straw men.

    Grim:

    The 'Right' continually trash the UN as 'effective' and 'irrelevant'. They may be right.

    Keeping that in mind, this same 'right' also constantly use the argument that we were "enforcing UN resolutions" when we invaded Iraq. Either we think this organization, and it's resolutions, are relevant, or we don't.
    =====================================================
    Mike, i trust you meant "ineffective" up there. Also you have to look at it from another angle:
    If resolutions are not enforced, then the UN is irrelevant. If they are, then it is not.

    Now I personally think the U.N. has failed on many levels at this point in history, I'm just pointing out that if anyone WANTS it to be relevant, then it's resolutions must be enforced. The poster said that Bush was undercutting the UN and I was trying to point out to him that by doing NOTHING, then Bush was going to undercut it just as much.

    Of course, this is definitely a realm where "preception of your opinion" weighs heavily. (Sorry if I'm not being very clear today, I've been suffering from a head cold the last few days and am pretty wacked out on meds. But that's just for now, other times I'm just crazy naturally. ;-) lol

    "If resolutions are not enforced, then the UN is irrelevant. If they are, then it is not."

    So the lion's share of the legwork in organizing the recent elections in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Gaza is "irrelevant"? The UN is not merely a resolution mill, you know.

    "If resolutions are not enforced, then the UN is irrelevant. If they are, then it is not."

    So the lion's share of the legwork in organizing the recent elections in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Gaza is "irrelevant"? The UN is not merely a resolution mill, you know.
    =====================================================
    And who did the lion's share of the legwork getting those places to where they COULD hold elections.

    Thanks for backing up my point Beef. ;-)

    Number of nuclear weapons in N Korea in 2000: Zero.

    Number of nuclear weapons in N Korea in 2006: Six...no, make that five - they blew one up.
    ==================================================
    Umm.... beef, considering how long it takes to build a nuclear weapon, Clinton is then at fault for NK's current bombs.

    (from:http://www.nuclearterror.org/faq.html)
    Why is producing fissile material the highest hurdle in making a nuclear weapon?
    Making fissile material is expensive and time-consuming, requiring roughly one billion dollars and a decade of intensive effort.

    "How long would it take to build a nuclear weapon?
    A decade, even if the necessary technology, funding, equipment and scientific expertise were available, due to the difficulties of producing fissile material. If a group started with fissile material obtained elsewhere, it could make an elementary nuclear weapon in less than one year."

    So let's see here... 2006, at LEAST 10 years to build... that means north korea started building nukes in... 2006-10 = 1996.

    Grim,

    ...unless that time is cut shorter by the whole-hog purchase of entire complex components of said weapon - from perhaps Mr. A. Q. Khan?

    But that won't stop anybody frm blaming everything that f---s up on Bush's watch on Clinton - its like a force of nature.

    Today has been one of those days. I did some housekeeping on bookmarked pages and started scrolling through 11/12/06. There were so many posts from that shy violet Bob and several were 2 and 3 page screeds.

    Having just waded my way earlier through his numerous posts I decided to see just how much he does do.

    Give or take 2 or 3 in any direction, this was what I found:

    Countdown on 11/12:

    410 total comments, including a dozen or so spammers.

    Bob's 1st post 11/13 @ 3:14 PM 63 posts in.

    Deducting spammers 335 posts total.

    Of the remaining 335 Bob accounted for 120 by himself, or at a rate of more than 2 to 1.

    Do you think if we quit feeding him he'll go bother someone else. I bet he can clear a party single handed faster then a speeding bullet.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    And Grammie does not want any jeers from the peanut gallery. Just remember I am old, retired and have a lot of spare time on my hands.


    Beef, you should read that faq I posted.

    "Is weapons-grade fissile material still being produced today?
    Yes. India and Pakistan openly produce such material for weapons, as does North Korea."

    "Does having a nuclear reactor help in building a nuclear weapon?
    Yes. Several states have used civilian nuclear reactors as a cover to make nuclear weapons. The "spent fuel" waste produced by a civilian reactor contains plutonium that, if separated out, can be used to make a bomb."

    hmm.... didn't clinton provide them with a civilian reactor?

    Also, looking up AQ Khan I have to wonder several things.
    1) What do you think Bush should have done about him?
    2) I haven't found anything that says he provided the enriched uranium to NK, just the PARTS for it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Qadeer_Khan
    "In a August 23, 2005 interview with Kyodo News General Pervez Musharraf confirmed that Dr. A.Q. Khan had supplied gas centrifuges and gas centrifuge parts to North Korea and, possibly, an amount of uranium hexafluoride gas.[1]"

    hmm.... what's that hexafluoride gas they're talking about?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_hexafluoride
    "Uranium hexafluoride, or UF6, is a compound used in the uranium enrichment process that produces fuel for nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons."

    What? It seems NK would STILL have to go through the enrichment process which would...?
    YES take 10 years.

    Of course... it also seems that he's been doing this LONG before Bush came to office.
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/khan-dprk.htm
    "A few months later [in 1994], A.Q. Khan made the first of what would be about 13 trips to North Korea, as part of a Pakistani delegation to Pyongyang, composed of both scientists and military officers. At that time Musharraf was Waheed’s director general for military operations. While there, he is said to have helped N. Korea with the design and equipping of facilities focused on the enrichment of uranium in exchange for North Korean assistance in the area of missile technology. Khan confessed to helping North Korea with the knowledge and approval of senior military commanders, among which two army chiefs and Musharraff. Waheed was subsequently replaced in January 1996 by Gen. Karamat who secretely travelled to North Korea in December 1997."

    My apologies for being in a hurry and writing the wrong Korea. At least I can admit my mistakes.

    I DID document the civil rights abuses by both Castro and Chavez and only a complete and utter idiot could claim they don't exist. And again, I'd like to point out it's this site's resident lefties defending dictators. Go to Amnesty Internationl's website and do a search your self. As Johnny so aptly put it, I'm not your research monkey either. And what good does it do when I do post links, you ignore them, and then claim they don't prove what they do prove.

    And Mike with the delicate sensibilities? When your fellow liberals at this website stop insulting me, I'll stop insulting all of you. But you ALL insult me with your ignorance.

    It appears that I'm getting under Grandma's skin.
    Anyone as closed minded and dogmatic as she, deserves a bit of a shakeup.
    Shedding some light on her party and that dunce she calls a president and illuminating her deep seated biases must be aging her faster than she expected.

    It is not Bush or Clintons fault. At fault is a dictator that is evil and is happy to see his people starve. This kim ill shit sung was evil before Clinton or Bush. He actually has to put barbed wire fences and guards on his beaches to keep people in the prison that is North Korea. The scary part is that negotiations do not work with him and sanctions do not work with him.

    janet,

    I think I have a copy of our thread on my other PC. I reply in about 3-4 hours.

    janet,

    I think I have a copy of our thread on my other PC. I reply in about 3-4 hours.

    Anon 6:30 is me

    It is not Bush or Clintons fault. At fault is a dictator that is evil and is happy to see his people starve. This kim ill shit sung was evil before Clinton or Bush. He actually has to put barbed wire fences and guards on his beaches to keep people in the prison that is North Korea. The scary part is that negotiations do not work with him and sanctions do not work with him.
    =====================================================

    You and I sir (or madam) are in complete agreement.

    Grammie..since you are "old and retired with not much to do"....check out this video and get back to me with your thoughts.

    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/12/21/12969/

    Oh Look. Another special comments show. Yawn.

    And Bob? Don't flatter yourself. I highly suspect that Granny has got a very tough skin.

    There's go Mike attacking people on this board, calling them "morons" again. Typical.

    Grannie,
    Why did you attack me. We're on the same side. I am the Right's answer to the left. Fight fire with fire I say.
    The American Left are a bunch of traitors. Today it's Muslims they sympathize with tommorow it'll the Chinese Military.

    kos (Shaun):

    You guys really like to lie and change history.....

    From your own site:

    "Lieberman won because of capturing the moderates and indies"

    VOTE BY PARTY ID

    TOTAL Lieberman Lamont Schlesinger
    Democrat (38%) 33% 65% 2%
    Republican (26%) 70% 8% 21%
    Independent (36%) 54% 35% 10%


    VOTE BY IDEOLOGY

    TOTAL Lieberman Lamont Schlesinger
    Liberal (26%) 27% 69% 3%
    Moderate (53%) 55% 36% 8%
    Conservative (21%) 66% 13% 21%

    You see koz (Shaun), you can try to lie all you want to make yourself feel better, but Lieberman is a great guy (I, a registered R, voted for him in 2000 when I lived in CT...he is a great statesman....like Bush) who killed Lamont with moderate and independent voter support. To say he won because people were tricked is a sorry excuse....The nutroots were stung hard with this loss....I remember seeing you in one of Lamont's commercials after-all.

    Example of a netroot candidate that lost big:
    In my home district....ha ha...my second right prediction....

    Linda Stender NJ-07.....loser

    I quote the silly kos,

    "Linda Stender's campaign is real. After a terrific fundraising quarter, Stender was endorsed by the Sierra Club, EMILY's List, NARAL, Garden State Equality, the Human Rights Campaign, the New Jersey AFL-CIO, and Democracy for America.

    "And finally, one of the best local blogospheres in the country is located in New Jersey. Bluejersey.net is simply amazing, and DumpMike was the first single district blog. I believe that DumpMike existed before Stender came into the race. This is particularly important in a state like New Jersey that has such an expensive media market.

    "In Linda Stender, we have a strongly progressive candidate in a blue-trending mid-Atlantic district facing a right-wing out of touch weirdo, with a superb local blogosphere backing her up. If 2006 is going to be our year, it's going to happen because of districts like this, and candidates like Linda Stender."

    Um...it didn't happen...even with money from the blogs...The ultra-conservative won easily. Stender can go back to Trenton! The blue blog is a pathetic site that just lost out on having The Dems pass Gay Marriage....they fought tooth and nail for it and had to settle for civil unions. People here in Jersey are moderate....not wacko libs like you, kos.

    I could go on, Shaun, but needless to say the pick-up in The House is small by historical standards for the party out of power and with the president's low approval ratings, you should have picked up double.....you didn't. So what that The Republicans did not pick-up any seats...many very conservative candidates did just fine and there is no one with any credibility predicting there is going to be "progressive" legislation success...we are back in 1994....GRIDLOCK!

    It must burn your tush that Joementum smiles nicely from his office at the pathetic campaign kos ran and the millions wasted. I hope he kisses Bush again at The State of the Union Address so that hemorroid in your butt pops right out.

    He also is going to be chairman of some important commitees DESPITE the demands of the silly kos,

    "If Lieberman bolts the Democratic Party and becomes and independent, Harry Reid will be under intense pressure to immediately strip Lieberman of his committee assignments. Those are reserved for Democrats and loyal allies (e.g. Jeffords or Sanders). Let the Republicans give their committee seats to their favorite Democrat. That's the last thing Reid needs right now, but it'll happen if Lieberman stays in the race."

    Did that happen kos?.....No!

    Poor, poor liberal hack.

    BTW
    Webb barely won against a bad candidate who never recovered from a ridiculous smear campaign. If I saw the same faded picture of Allen with some old men from the CCC on kos one more time it would have been too much!

    My mother could have beaten the pathetic Burns. And Tester is as "progressive," as Professor Honeydew is smart.

    And Harold Ford Jr. lost....we was also pushed in the blogosphere. Poor guy...he was nice and tried to be a conservative....no dice.

    So your claims of a progressive revival are premature, kos. Republicans and moderates will easily thwart any radical legislation you silly leftists want to pass.....and....

    Oh yeah, Bush can also veto your stupidity without worry of over-ride.

    I loved how the MSM saw the election....for once true and not what your stupidity claims...

    http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,20061120,00.html

    The next two years are going to be fun seeing the radical left get angrier and more marginalized.

    Get that hemorroid checked out before President Bush's address in January..ok....we don't want you to suffer, kos.

    How's impeachment going?

    "The American Left are a bunch of traitors."

    Red Wolf:

    For your convenience, I have selected the brain malfunctions that most closely resemble the ones you recently made on the topic at hand:

    1. I am the world - You believe that the American Left are traitors. Therefore, they must be traitors.

    2. Argument by bizarre definition - Treason = any dissent from governing policy (regardless of the source). I suppose Colin Powell is a traitor because he says a "surge" will not achieve anything.

    3. Overapplication of Occam's Razor.

    Therefore, I have concluded that YOU ARE WRONG!

    Ensign Expendable,
    The reason the Left are traitors isn't their anti-Bush views, but their pro-Islamic views. The Left endorses Hamas, Hizballah and love Mahmoud Amadinejad!

    EE,

    If the Left were traitors what would they do differently than they are doing now?

    My definition of "traitor" is someone who wants their own side to lose the war it's in.

    Yes like Olbermann who gets happy with every American death. He's a cheerleader for the Islamic cause!

    Red Wolf, does any part of this post from you last night remind you of of the despicable behavior of say Coward, Bob, SLOB and others:

    "You're obvious an ignorant fool. M ichael savge is the Right's version of Keith Olbermann. I don't like Limpbaigh or Vanitty either they're hacks, like Olbermann.
    Spawn from Klan culture.
    Bo ignorant fool I'm a Spawn of the Roman culture that spawn your you ignorant fool. It's people like that abortion is legal. Do us a favor, go back to your Mom's stD infested womb and get aborted!

    What about me leads you to believe that I condone behavior by those closer to me on the political spectrum that I condemn in those on the opposite side of the spectrum.

    In fact, I tend to be less tolerant of bad behavior in those that are more closely associated with me than in those that I am poles apart from.

    I would love to see you clean up your act.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Pat Buchanan:
    "It might be best for us to lose this war.
    We have a choice, to lose our over depleted army or lose Iraq.
    Those are our two choices now."

    I guess ole right wing Pat is now lumped with the other so called traitors you idiots like to scream at.

    The predictament that Bush has gotten us into is a tragedy.
    The pontificating at this site obscures the realities of the real world.
    Keep wishing upon a star, righties.
    Wishing and hoping won't change anything.
    George Bush and the neo-cons have seen to that !

    Grammie:"go back to your Mom's stD infested womb and get aborted!"

    I see that Grandma is totally getting into the Christmas spirit.

    She and the right are imploding !

    It's not like we haven't warned them !

    Grammie,
    For your sake I apologize for what I said.

    Red Wolf, thank you and I accept.

    An apology in these circumstances is rare indeed.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Bob,

    Pat Buchanan and Robert Novak are the last of the "Father Coughlin" Republicans. All others left the group on Dec. 7, 1941. Novak and Buchanan hate Israel and Commies and illegal aliens, but have no beef with anybody else. They love totalitarian dictators as long as they aren't Commies.

    Right on Red Wolf. I really look up to you. Keep right on exposing those evil lefties!

    Yes, Red Wolf is a real American hero.

    Janet Hawkins,
    I aplogize if what I said offended you.

    Now I jusrt want to know from the Left.
    Why doe you guys support Islam?

    Well lets see, my cousin in law on my mother's side twice removed is a Muslem. Isn't that a good enough reason to support Islam?

    Pat Buchanan is a traitor. He's a muslim loving scumbag. He gets mad at Hispanics that come from a similiar culture as his but doesn't say a peep of the true threat. It wasn't Mexicans that rammed planes into the WTC on 9/11, It was Muslims. He's a dork and I can't stand him as much as I hate Olbermann!

    You got that right, Pat oughta be arested and sent to Quantanamo and water boarded right along with all them other enemy combatants! Hes even werse than Olberdork!

    "Why doe you guys support Islam?"

    Because Islam does not automatically equal "terrorist".

    News flash, Wolfie boy. There are 1 BILLION Muslims in the world. NOT ALL of them are terrorists. Not even 1% of them are. But YOU and your ilk lump them all together and say "they're bad".

    You want nice, simple "white hats" and "black hats". But the world can't oblige you.

    Maybe Anon, but all them other 99% of Muslems are terorist suporters and Wolfie's figurd that out. He's a reel American!

    Anon, where does this supposedly somewhat firm number of ONLY TEN MILLION terrorists in the Muslim world come from?

    Does it only include those active in the front lines? Or does it also include supporters on the line of for every soldier on the front line there is x number of behind the lines and home based soldiers? Does in include active sympathizers? Does it include ideological sympathizers who cheer them on and help maintain a wall of silence and obstruction? Does it take into account government officials in Syria, Iran etc?

    If you have sources that can answer these questions they should be able to have some type of breakdown. I would be very interested in going to the original source for these numbers myself.

    I would point out, though, TEN MILLION TERRORISTS is a lot of people to be devoted to the goal of killing every one of us as a nonnegotiable bottom line. It is also quite a bit bigger than our own military.

    Have you ever done any reading about how the Nazi's were able to maintain the subjugation of and murder so many over such a broad expanse and with a relatively small number of troops once they were in control of an area. Enough fellow citizens and most buracracies cooperated, and sometimes were fighting with each other in an effort to advance their personal fortunes. This was also true in Germany itself.

    I realize this is not the best analogy, but human nature is fairly constant. Some countries fared better than other countries because their citizens were far less prone to that type of behavior. But it happened far more than one would wish everywhere.

    The point is that local populations can provide enornmous amounts of aid without ever being a combatant.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Meltdown is again in last place. The rerun of something called Deal or No Deal absolutely crushed Meltdown last night. (I know, that's not news.) Insidecable.com did not post CNN's ratings, but, no doubt, CNN must have also destroyed MSDNC's gameshow. The latest abysmal ratings for Odormoronn:

    Wednesday, December 20,2006

    8PM - P2+ (25-54)
    O'Reilly Factor - 2,223,000 viewers (435,000)
    Deal or No Deal - 1,014,000 viewers (438,000)
    Nancy Grace - 556,000 viewers (192,000)
    Meltdown w/ Odormoronn - 555,000 viewers (215,000)

    Duh Tom: I believe Olbermann was running replays of 'Oddball'. I think maybe that bears a little consideration here.

    The Republicans never fail to disappoint me. Just when you thought GWB was the mmost delusional member of his party, here comes the honorable senator from NH, Robin Hayes.
    He has a solution for the war in Iraq. Oh yes he does. Last night in Concord, there was
    the usual talk of how we’re "winning" over there:
    "The war in Iraq has got to be won; it’s being won."
    (A couple of months ago Hayes said that the rise in violence in Iraq was an indication that we’re winning.)

    Then comes the real kicker:
    "Stability in Iraq ultimately depends on spreading the message of Jesus Christ, the message of peace on earth, good will towards men. Everything depends on everyone learning about the birth of the Savior."

    With this kind of talk Hayes just plays into the hands of Al-Qaeda by confirming what their leaders have always been saying: those American soldiers are just modern Crusaders.

    I'm sure this will go over as well in the Muslim world.
    Just too bad our troops will pay for it.

    Uh Bob, I hate to correct you, but are you talking about CONGRESSMAN Robin Hayes of NC? If so, that sounds like something he would do!

    I'm from NC, and we have some real ringers, as in delusional members of both Houses of Congress representing this state.

    Bob,

    Robin Hayes is not a senator from NH. He is a congressman from North Carolina. But you were close. Try "wikipedia".

    Just wondering: if every follower of Muhammad were to give it up and go to Jesus instead would that displease you? Or do you like things better the way they are today?

    I'm not saying that the congressman is a "rocket scientist" for making those comments that you attribute to him.

    Asking if "every follower of Mohammad would give it up and go to Jesus instead" is a lot like saying "wouldn't it be wonderfull if we could all live forever".

    My bad..when I heard Concord, I just assumed it was NH.
    Anywho,converting the Muslims to Jesus Christ will win the war for us?

    This does ring a bell.....

    Now where did I hear about someone suggesting we should kill all the leaders in the Middle East and convert them to Christianity.
    Hmmmmmm....emaciated looking blond chick....
    doesn't like to vote in her own district...ran foul of the law....

    Robin Hayes is the flip flopper resonsible for Cafta in 2005! After vowing he could NEVER support that bill, he succombed to pressure from Haskert and other Republicans to change his vote after the voting was held open for hours while they twisted his arm. He showed absolutely no spine or backbone in representing his own constituancy.

    This episode is also one of the many reasons that Democrats and Independents both are very angry at the nasty partisanship the Republicans displayed while running Congress the last six years.

    These same Republicans thought the most important thing they should do after the 2004 elections was to rush to the aid of the credit card companies by passing the Bankruptcy Bill, but they are clearly ethically bankrupt themselves!

    Bob,

    Like so many other leftists you just refuse to answer a direct question with a direct answer.

    I will repeat.

    "Just wondering: if every follower of Muhammad were to give it up and go to Jesus instead would that displease you? Or do you like things better the way they are today?"

    Rico Baby:

    If we would all just get along and love each other, wouldn't this be a better and safer world?

    If we just made cars that ran on water, couldn't we break our dependency on imported oil?

    If we would just make a cure for cancer, wouldn't we reduce the suffering of mankind?

    If we would just stop running into each other on the highway, wouldn't America be a safer place for us all?

    ............................?

    ..................................?


    "Just wondering: if every follower of Muhammad were to give it up and go to Jesus instead would that displease you? Or do you like things better the way they are today?"
    Posted by: Rico at December 22, 2006 12:49 AM"

    How about we show the dumb ass Islamic fundamentalists that we are better than them by not being just like them - religous idiots!

    So we should NOT defend ourselves against their terrorist attacks?

    Grammie,
    For your sake I apologize for what I said.

    Posted by: Red Wolf at December 21, 2006 10:13 PM

    Red Wolf, thank you and I accept.

    An apology in these circumstances is rare indeed.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at December 21, 2006 10:20 PM

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    So much civility for each other now if only we could get you to do this with people that aren't white Christians.

    So we should NOT defend ourselves against their terrorist attacks?

    Posted by: Fox Fan at December 22, 2006 02:10 AM


    How about we give them less reason to commit terrorist attacks? That ever occur to you?

    You ever consider what Jesus taught? What would you think would be the effect of taking the 300 billion dollars spent on killing Muslims in Iraq and build the best schools, hospitals, and businesses in the Palestinian territories?

    You see this is the problem with cowards, they suck up all the "be afraid, be very afraid" garbage that Fox News and CNN feeds you and then pretends being a Christian is killing people you are afraid of. Being Christian today is equal to being a coward retard who can't think for himself. Death and destruction is your cure and isn't interesting that it is the Islamists cure. Hmmm how curious that you both are f---ed up ignorant a--holes who think killing is the best cure while you both claim to be religious.

    Hi Janet here isa the post I promised. If you did respond I apologize. The message board on this site is getting harder to keep up with these days.

    Janet Hawkins AKA Grammie. I didn’t get a chance to offer a rebuttal to your interesting post on stem cell research. The thread from the 24th is now closed so I am posting it here.
    “I don't see much in common from this ad from several years ago to the one M J Fox made and disseminated recently. One, biomedical research and NEW EMBRYONIC STEM CELL lines and research are not the same thing. A person can be for biomedical research and opposed to the subset of the development of and research on new embryonic stem cell lines. Two, based on my general knowledge of Arlen Spector I am sure that the ad stated his position accurately. Perhaps that accounts for your misreading of why some people have no problem with one and are speaking out against the other.”
    There is no misreading here at all. The ad you quote while not directly saying stem cell research was cut because, as a sufferer of Hodgkin's lymphoma, Arlene Spector is one of the leaders in the fight for embryonic stem cell research. Fox cut that ad because he supports Spector in that fight. As long as he was supporting a Republican there were no attacks from the GOP talking heads against Fox.
    I suppose you could be correct, in your assumption that the GOP talking heads didn’t realize stem cell research was the reason Fox was stumping for Spector, given the general language of that ad, that is reasonable. The more likely explanation though is that the new ads could potentially cost Republicans the Senate. That is why the GOP attack dogs have come out swinging unlike before.
    “ I would guess that a poll of a thousand adults at ramdom would indicate that most people can't differentiate between stem cell research, new embryonic stem cell lines and existing embryonic stem cell lines. There is a very real difference between the three and the creators of that ad must know it.”
    Janet, How is it remotely possible to cover the differences between the types of stem cell research in a 30 second ad? You can lament the fact that we have a sound byte culture if you like, but accusing one political ad of not covering the nuances of an issue is ridiculous. No political ads do that. There isn’t time and the GOP are certainly as guilty as the Democrats in that regard.
    “Concentrating on the red herring that Rush created is not going to help. Rush stepped over the line on that one. It has not been helpful to the debate of the facts of the matter.”
    On that we are in complete agreement
    “I'm sorry. I don't understand what you are trying to say. I would go further and state that virtually everyone is in favor of funding stem cell research. And it is being funded by the feds, states, charities and private investment. The only exception is using federal funding involving creating new embryonic stem cell lines. The feds do fund embryonic stem cell research on existing lines. Their is also no federal laws preventing others from creating new embryonic lines and en
    Earlier this year, Talent co-sponsored a bill that would ban all embryonic stem-cell research and impose a $1 million fine and jail sentence on violators. That to me looks like the actions of someone who opposes embryonic stem cell research. He eventually withdrew his support but I am guessing his change of heart was more political than personal. Either way, given Fox’s own beliefs there is certainly reason to feel safer with the other candidate.
    “The greatest gains have involved ADULT STEM CELL RESEARCH (which IS federally funded) and umbilibcal cord blood stem cells (also federally funded). This research has already produced viable treatments. The scientific community also sees some major breakthroughs coming in the near future. They know enough now to make knowedgable predictions.”
    There are adult stems only for certain systems in the body. One example is the hematopoietic stem cell which has been in use for years in bone marrow transplants. But, for some systems, such as the pancreatic beta cells there are no adult stem cells - the option is not available. In addition to this adult cells have other obstacle,s Adult stem cells may be unsuitable for regeneration of damaged tissues in the case of elderly patients or due to presence of cancer in the bone marrow. Finally it's been very difficult to grow sufficient numbers of adult stem cells to regenerate tissues or create replacement organs. All of these are potential areas the embryonic stem cell research could address.
    “The potential for EMBRYONIC stem cell research results has been vastly overhyped. Not only have no viable treatments materialized, enough is now known that the scientific community doesn' see it coming soon. All of this information is available to the layman in many magazines, newspapers and on the internet.”
    The majority of medical journals I have read feel that there is great promise in stem cell research. It may be a ways off but because something is not around the corner is no reason to not pursue it.
    “I can tell you one major obstacle I read about recently. Embyonic stem cells cause tumors in lab animals. A professor from MIT said that solving the tumor problem is the equivalent to finding a cure for cancer. Quite a big problem to be solved before they can even start develope to individual applications.”
    In lab rats the rate that developed cancer was about 20% of the mice injected. Many got better. According to one medical journal I read it is possible to use a procedure called nuclear transplantation to replace the DNA of an embryonic stem cell with DNA from one of the patient's own cells, eliminating the problem of immune rejection

    ”Fair enough. His current ad addresses stem cell research. But he is talking about EMBRYONIC stem cell research. And this is a difference with a real difference. I would say this is the first red herring.”
    Well no. embryonic stem cell research is stem cell research. Just like adult stem cell research is stem cell research. The ad didn’t get into specifics but again the GOP didn’t care about the Spector ad which certainly was more general than the Missouri ad. But your right they avoided a potential firestorm with some voters by not getting specific and explaining which kind of stem cell reaearch they were differing on.
    “Second, in the ad in Missouri he accused Talent of trying to criminalize the science that gives a chance for a cure and voted against stem cell research. Neither statement is true.”
    I’m sorry but you are wrong. First off the ad said, Jim talent “wanted to criminalize the science that gives us hope," Which is true at one time he wanted to do just that Earlier this year, Talent co-sponsored a bill that would ban all embryonic stem-cell research and impose a $1 million fine and jail sentence on violators. In fairness he eventually withdrew support for his own bill but at one time he wanted to criminalize it.
    “Additionally, I suffer from a chronic, debillitating and frequently painfull disease. Close to fifteen years now. And it will end my life sooner rather than later. And that doesn't entitle me to lie and than hide behind my poor, pitiful victimhood. That was the point that seems to have gotten so many in a dither. How callous and uncaring Grammie is.”
    I am genuinely very sorry you are suffering. However, I don’t think cutting an ad for a candidate you support is hiding behind victim hood. I don’t know the man but Fox certainly has a vested interest in a cure. That ad to me said “Vote for this person, they are in favor of pursing what I believe will help people like me.” If you want to argue that you think he is wrong in what will work that is fair. If you think that the ad oversimplified the issue that is certainly fair (on about any political ad ever made for that matter.) When I jumped in this thread I mistakenly thought you were taking the Limbaugh position on the matter that Fox was faking. I think personal any attacks on Fox is a pretty low thing to do. But If you think his ideas aabout science are wrong that is fair. I disagree but it is a valid line of argument. If you think he misrepresented certain things that is also fair. I think you are not allowing for the fact that he had 30 seconds to make his case and I think he honestly believe that the Democrats are right on this issue. but there is nothing wrong to saying lets delve further into this Or I disagree.

    So much civility for each other now if only we could get you to do this with people that aren't white Christians.

    Come on that's a little out of line.

    "Being Christian today is equal to being a coward retard who can't think for himself. Death and destruction is your cure and isn't interesting that it is the Islamists cure. Hmmm how curious that you both are f---ed up ignorant a--holes who think killing is the best cure while you both claim to be religious."

    I'm not sure who you're talking about Coward Watch, do you know me or any other Christian? If 90% of America is Christian and 50-60% are against the war, doesn't that mean that most Christians are against it?

    So much civility for each other now if only we could get you to do this with people that aren't white Christians.

    Come on that's a little out of line.

    Posted by: jt at December 22, 2006 02:28 AM

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////

    No, I'll tell what's out of line. A bunch of white corn fed fat Americans coming on chat room disguised as a blog and being trite about the hell our nation's finest are living with in Iraq. And the even worse death and destruction our idiot president and all his hillbilly supporters discuss with such gross insensitivity to the realities the war they debate like it is so trivial. The vile disconnect so many of you illiterate disconnected empty humans display here can't be expressed in words on a page. Why don't you all leave this page for ten minutes and search the "image" section of Google for the Iraqi death and destruction you all so callously debate here. When was the last time one of you numb cold lifeless excuses for human beings felt pain from hunger for food or your loved ones killed in a war a foreign invader created in your country? Instead you probably spent your day eating more than you needed and watching the brain liquefier none as cable television.

    You wouldn't Jesus Christ if he punched you in the mouth for being so vile and disconnected from the true nature of man.

    There is an old Chinese saying - "the fish are always the last to see the water."

    You wouldn't know Jesus Christ if punched you in the mouth.

    Bob is an Islamo-loving terrorist that should be shot on sight. Of course, he would love that considering it would give him even more attention than he recieves on this board.

    Memo to all those who allow Bob to get under his/her skin: He is the type of guy who will NEVER contribute anything positive to society, will NEVER do anything with his life outside of board posting with extremist thoughts, and will die lonely and alone. Face facts, Bob, your life has amounted to nothing...this board is all you have. I can't wait until you become worm food.

    "Bob is an Islamo-loving terrorist that should be shot on sight.

    (Bob)will NEVER do anything with his life outside of board posting with extremist thoughts, Posted by: HansBrix at December 22, 2006 02:48 AM"

    Uhhh who could do a better job of showing the ironic ignorance typical moron cowards who live in fear of the world beyond their door?

    Keep up the good work. I love this kind of help.

    "Bob is an Islamo-loving terrorist that should be shot on sight.

    (Bob)will NEVER do anything with his life outside of board posting with extremist thoughts, Posted by: HansBrix at December 22, 2006 02:48 AM"

    Uhhh who could do a better job of showing the ironic ignorance typical moron cowards who live in fear of the world beyond their door?

    Keep up the good work. I love this kind of help.

    Bend over, CowardWatch. You don't give a damn about our troops. Given your posts in the past, you celebrate the fact that our men and women are getting killed over there. Leave the country now; You make me sick. You make jokes about Bush and Iraq, which proves you don't give a damn about our brave soldiers, but just use them to advance a perverse cause in your mind. If I ever saw you, I'd puch you right in the face without hesitation.

    Leave the U.S. now, Coward. France or Antartica would welcome you with open arms.

    How does it feel t get so much attention for making an *ss of yourself? You have no life, no woman that will ever love you. You only have this board, and you always have been diplored by anyone you've ever met, right? Once an idiot, always a dork.

    Below is the standard fair of your typical "Christian" Republican mind. Fabricated lies about what I post here which can't backed up with one example, and of course threats of violence as end to a means for frustration from being an ignorant looser in a debate.

    "And they will know we are Christians by our love"

    Praise Jesus and them punch shoot and kill! Typical KKK Kulture!

    "Bend over, CowardWatch. You don't give a damn about our troops. Given your posts in the past, you celebrate the fact that our men and women are getting killed over there. Leave the country now; You make me sick. You make jokes about Bush and Iraq, which proves you don't give a damn about our brave soldiers, but just use them to advance a perverse cause in your mind. If I ever saw you, I'd puch you right in the face without hesitation. Posted by: Typical Christian at December 22, 2006 02:53 AM"

    Anonymous opined, "Duh Tom: I believe Olbermann was running replays of 'Oddball'. I think maybe that bears a little consideration here."

    Hmm. It was just last week that Olbermann got on the air and crowed about how close he came to beating O'Reilly in the ratings, failing to inform his viewers who are stupid enough to believe his lies and bullshit that O'Reilly wasn't hosting the show that night, a substitute host was. So if Olbermann gets to crow about how close he came to beating O'Reilly (and still didn't by the way, he NEVER has), then we get to laugh about Olby coming in dead last with a repeat.

    Once again, the logic of the Olbyloon on full display. It's okay if Olby does it, but the rules are different for him and his whacko fans, or so they think. Too bad reality keeps intruding into their little wet-dream fantasies.

    Oh and coward watch? Go to church, go to hell, go to therapy, just GO. Your ranting/raving and seething anger reveals someone who is truly in need of some kind of help.

    I don't know what KO meant by how closed beating O'Reilly. He never passed the 1,000,000 viewers excpet the night after the election, and it was just one night and The Factor was way up also. Mr. O'Reilly always has about 2,200,000 to 2,400,000 per night, I guess KO not only can't do math but also can't count 0s. He thinks he is making 1,000,000 actually it is 100,000, so if he asks for 400% raise, that is not too much to MSNBC, huh?

    He keeps saying his demo beat Mr. O'Reilly, it is a small portion of the whole numbers of viewers. I always look at the big picture.

    MSNBC just got a new ad on this morning, more and more are watching MSNBC, they show a graphics of MSNBC up 7%, FNC down 16% and CNN down 8%. So the total is down 24%, and MSNBC only graps 7% of it, just about 1/3. Yeah, MSNBC should be proud of it for all these years. Besides, they are smart enough not just to show KO head, they show all the four anchors. KO believes he gets all the credits and so does MSNBC.

    I guess the leftist radicals are all out participating in that capitalism event, known as shopping, for that holiday celebrating the birth of The Messiah for all humankind.

    I hope Keith Olbermann gets something from Santa this year! He was such a good boy, after all.

    It amazed me though, MSNBC shows Chris Matthews and KO at the front and Tucker and Joe at the back in the graphics.

    Cee: did someone say the economy is declining?

    Did someone say the economy is not good, is declining?

    All I want for Xmas is a new thread. 509 posts? Cmon Santa Cox!

    Sorry for asking the same question again, the firt one did not go through. Too much postings, it is full. I am not going shopping and I am going to be around.

    Keiths Xmas list-
    -More Orange Tanner Lotion (double power please).
    -A single blinder, so I can only see one way.
    -Bubble bath.
    -A new cushion, the one under my desk is worn.
    -Tickets to the 'wiggles' for me and my girlfriend

    Who cares EMBRYONIC stem cell research. We should be focusing our energies in making better weapons against the Islamo-Fascists.

    Red Wolf,

    We've got the weapons. We just ain't using them enough.

    Does anyone else on here suspect that Rico and Red Wolf are one and the same?

    Or it could be just dumb and dumber!

    I am sure there are those who will never see the US economy as good...because any open market system that demands competitive activity on the part of the participants is always anathema to a certain proportion of the population.....

    The 15% that Professor Honeydew (Bob), koz (Shaun), Coward Watch, and Sir Loin of Milquetoast are a part of....Or as I call that 15%....The radical left.

    People named "Anonymous" don't even exist.

    Rico,
    Good point. Hey what part of the US you're from?

    A healthy and a good economy are two different things. As long as consumers are willing to spend is good to me. Now I am worrying about my tax refund which I always have every year. I am single and I pay more tax than the othres, which is fine to me, as long as I get a job and have a little refund every year, like having a savings account at the IRS.

    Mr. Cox and Jonny must be participating to contributing to our good economy at the mall. I am surprised that they did not mention the article that Mr. Cox was in yesterday.

    "We've got the weapons. We just ain't using them enough."

    Too many chickenhawk pussies like cee, Red Wolf and Rico hanging around camp.

    The record spending on the contractors feeding off the war has kept the stock market looking good - when you get 400 billion for basically providing nothing, your bottom line is going to look great. Wall Street does not reflect the condition of the American populace; it just reflects how much money gets spent - whether on cancer and silicosis treatments, or on encarcerating world-record numbers of nonviolent offenders.

    Where is that money coming from? Not so much from taxes anymore - Bush BORROWED it, you bumblef---s!

    Do you call your personal finances healthy because your checkbook is ballanced, but you have each and every one of your credit cards maxed out, and are barely making the minimum payments? The economy is a house of cards that the Chinese, the Japanese, the Brazillians, and the Saudis are going to come in and repossess someday. Bush won't be president then, so he doesn't give a shit. You clowns will certainly blame Clinton, and turn en masse to some racist populist to save the day.

    I just read the article Jane....

    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/entertainment/16289004.htm

    "As his profile has risen, so has criticism of his provocative style. This summer, amid an on-air feud with O'Reilly, he addressed a gathering of television critics by donning a mask of the Fox News host and giving a Nazi salute.

    "A network spokesman said the gesture was intended as a satirical comment.

    "Robert Cox, who runs Olbermann Watch, a critical blog that monitors the cable news host's comments, said that Olbermann employs some of the same tactics that he decries.

    "`I think at the end of the day he has, by and large, become that which he has criticized -- a demagogue like Bill O'Reilly,' said Cox, a management consultant in New Rochelle, N.Y.

    "Olbermann rejects the comparison."
    (Surprise....what a freakin liar!)

    "'I'm not trying to whip up a political frenzy,' he said. `If I was out there every night beating people over the head with this, I would become a Rush Limbaugh. That's not my goal. I don't make the facts up to fit the political viewpoint that happens to parallel what it is I'm trying to express."

    ###
    Hey Keith....YOU ARE THE RADICAL LEFT'S RUSH LIMBAUGH without the good self-depricating humor.....or the HUGE audience for that matter.

    I am no Rush fan....but can anyone defend Olbermann's assertion that he is not, "out there every night beating people over the head with this."

    And this is LAUGHABLE.....

    "I don't make the facts up to fit the political viewpoint that happens to parallel what it is I'm trying to express."

    I just can't believe he said this about himself with a straight face!

    Just another example of the manipulation and lies of The deplorable Herr Olbermann.

    J$ or Robert....Please start a thread about this nonsense!

    "Bob is an Islamo-loving terrorist that should be shot on sight.

    It's always funny how idiots on the right think that telling the truth makes someone a "Islamo-loving terrorist" or as Lapdog characterizes me a "radical leftist". When in actually I'm just a good average American who wants competency in his leaders and have their citizens best interest in mind instead bowing at the altar of corporate interests.
    Goes to show how far RIGHT these knuckle dragging Neanderthals have gone.They think anyone who dares calls a spade a spade is a "leftist!"

    They obviously still haven't learned anything from the midterm elections, or from George Bush taking this country right down into the toilet.
    Arrested development I guess!

    For example...check out this news item I found today from CNN.com.....
    Another great example of our "law and order" president :

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush issued 16 pardons Thursday and commuted the sentence of an Iowa man convicted of drug charges.

    Six of the federal offenses were drug crimes, while others included bank fraud, mail fraud, the acceptance of a kickback, a false statement on a loan application and conspiracy to defraud the government over taxes.

    Seven of the 16 received no prison or jail time, instead getting probation or a reduction in their military pensions.

    The longest sentence was nine years, for aiding cocaine distribution, followed by a six-year term for conspiracy to possess marijuana.

    Now you have heard the right condemning Clinton for his pardons...now let's see how fair and balanced they are for Bush pardoning drug criminals.

    I'm sure the roar will be deafening....with silence.

    Ahhhh, what Professor Honeydew did not quote was the fact at the end of the article.....

    "Bush remains among the stingiest of postwar presidents on pardons."

    Why did you miss posting that, professor?

    And why did you not include this nice fact....

    "President Clinton issued 457 in eight years in office. Bush's father, George H. W. Bush, issued 77 in four years. President Reagan issued 406 in eight years, and President Carter issued 563 in four years."

    Please....if you are going to demand others be, "fair and balanced," make sure you research all of the Carter and Clinton pardons and tell us all if any compare unfavorably to the long list you just complained about.

    This professor is a joke.

    Its called selective reading Cee... the liberals here are legendary for it.

    I agree. When a country is in a war, economy is always better for all the contracts the government has and military expenses. I am sure the big boss of MSNBC, GE gets a chunk of it. Further, for all those wounded soldiers, medical care expenses sure will boost the GE stock up, well, not just GE, other giant corporations too. It is a trend, after a war, depression will follow. However, locally, at home, we still depend on consumers to spend, to buy Christmas presents, to go out and dine, to see movies, to take kids to Disney World, etc. Without the driving force of these local consumers, even they spend a dollar, it contributes to our economy as long as we have jobs, as long as we have tax refund.

    Next year, our beloved Dems will come to power, I am worrying about my tax refund. I am single and I pay more tax than the others, the tax refund check is liked a savings accounts withdrawal, well, without interests. When people go out shopping this Christmas, they will hesitate and spend conservatively, think and spend, I may not get a tax refund as much as this year. I got myself a nice decent computer from Dell out of my tax refund so I can finish the class that I was taking. My ten years old computer died while I was doing my homework, I screamed.

    Toyota just announced this morning, the best car sellers on this planet. Ford and GM are forced to cut jobs and closed some plants. On the other hand, Toyota is opening new plants in this country, creates jobs and keep our economy running.

    Hey Honeydew....It's Christmas....Bush is allowing pardons based on professional lawyers in The Justice Department (likely some Dems there BTW) reviewing cases.....Do you not think these fine government officials have the country's best interests in mind/combined with some compassion? Calm down!

    Unlike Clinton, who pardoned people associated with his campaign finances, these pardons look like they would gain nothing personally for our fine President.

    IF he had pardoned Libby, I would say you have a point....but really now...IT'S CHRISTMAS....give us some holiday cheer, professor!

    Of course Lapdog fails to mention that Bush still has two more years in office and most presidents do most of their pardoning as they are leaving office.

    Notice Dr. Lapdog DID not condemn Bush pardoning drug criminals.

    No...the joke's on you... Dr.Lapdog.

    Your avoidance of Bush's lies and incompetency reveals how you take the term"partisan hack" to bold new levels.

    but really now...IT'S CHRISTMAS....give us some holiday cheer, professor!

    Like the holiday cheer you demonstrated yesterday when you called me an imbecile, coward, etc.

    Like I always say, proving that you're full of shit is as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

    I am trying to be a good elf TODAY, professor....

    But if you keep up the silly attacks...I will just have to return to the irritating, insulting, and irresistible Neanderthal (your name for me) you secretly love soooooo much!

    How about addressing my SPECIFIC point about political benefits associated with previous Clinton pardons?

    Will it be you claim that George Bush gets his illegal ritalin from one of these guys, professor?

    jt, thanks. I have your post now. You probably missed the reply I made at the time. To the best of my memory I responded to all the points you made with the exception of one point involving Jim Talent.

    I tried to find some info on it and being unsucssful ask you to give me the sources.

    Will go back and get my replies and post them here. If that doesn't work out, after the holidays I'll copy them whenever I see you on a thread.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    A FEW CLINTON PARDON FACTS-

    Clinton received $107,000 from the Gregorys for their pardons, in the form of loans that were never repaid, as part of a quid pro quo scheme

    Marc Rich's former wife, was a close friend of the Clintons and had made substantial donations to both Clinton's library and Hillary's Senate campaign.

    Almon Braswell and Carlos Vignali each paid approximately $200,000 to Hillary Clinton's brother.

    Now shaddup lefties....and merry christmas

    To Loin's 10:18 AM post......

    Just like any bank will continue to allow an individual to borrow and pay as they go, the US creditors that support your lifestyle in this country know it is in their best interest to continue loaning money.

    When The US economy is destroyed by leftist environmental, economic and social policy, and can no longer have a robust GDP....that is when the repo man will come.....

    Borrowing money when you can pay it back is just fine....When you do not have an income (nationally-GDP) then there will be a problem.

    No Loin, it is not the war debt that will destroy this country.....It is the ever expanding federal regulations and excessive taxation that supresses economic activity and the ever expanding government entitlement programs that endlessly support people who are not contributing to the kitty.

    Lapdog:How about addressing my SPECIFIC point about political benefits associated with previous Clinton pardons?

    How about you showing a shred of decency and condemning Bush for pardoning drug criminals?

    The old quarterhorse, Lapdog, continues to wear blinders which prevents him from seeing the present and constantly makes him retreat( Dr, Strangelove style ) to the Clinton years.

    Two more interesting items in today's news.
    From the AP:
    This one considerably interests me b/c it's in my area.
    Environmental and other watchdog groups in four states have filed a federal lawsuit to try to stop the Army from trucking the byproduct of a deadly nerve gas from Indiana to New Jersey, where it would be treated and dumped into the Delaware River.

    The complaint by the Delaware Riverkeeper Network and other groups claims the Army's plan to transport the byproduct of neutralized VX nerve agent across state lines violates a federal law banning interstate movement of chemical weapons.


    Thank God there are watchdog groups in this country. Remember, Dr. Lapdog is against them, and probably would trust the army with the transporting and dumping.
    Nuff Said.

    2nd news item:
    Eight marines were charged Thursday with unpremeditated murder for the killings of 24 Iraqi citizens in a door to door sweep in the town of Haditha.

    Remember the Maine Corps tried to cover up what happened at the site?Their account was widely discredited.
    I know the right has amnesia on cases such as this.
    I don't.
    Remember when Jack Murtha spoke the truth about what happened in this case. He knew the details.
    But that didn't stop Hannity and other ignoramuses on the right from crucifying Jack for weeks.

    Now that the investigations are complete , and they have been charged, I wonder if Hannity and the others will apologize to Murtha ?

    When hell freezes over they will !

    Long time military man and war hero Jack Murtha spoke the truth, because he knew what happened and wasn't afraid to speak it.

    Just another example how truth is like kryptonite to the right wing !

    Bob,

    Like so many other leftists you just refuse to answer a direct question with a direct answer.

    I will repeat.

    "Just wondering: if every follower of Muhammad were to give it up and go to Jesus instead would that displease you? Or do you like things better the way they are today?"

    I think Bubbajim put you appropriately in your place with his answer...
    One more response to your ridiculous point..
    Do you not know the history of Christianity and the millions of innocents who have died in the name of Christianity ?
    Ever hear of the Crusades?

    Merry Christmas

    Jt, this is the first post I made in response to you.

    "JT, I got to this point and somehow closed this page and lost it all. I definitely won't be able to finish today. The witching hour is fast approaching and I have some little goblins who are expecting me.

    JT RESPONDED:
    "Earlier this year, Talent co-sponsored a bill that would ban all embryonic stem-cell research and impose a $1 million fine and jail sentence on violators. That to me looks like the actions of someone who opposes embryonic stem cell research. He eventually withdrew his support but I am guessing his change of heart was more political than personal. Either way, given Fox�s own beliefs there is certainly reason to feel safer with the other candidate."

    GRAMMIE RESPONSE:
    Grammie cries 'Uncle' on this one. Don't get too excited. I have spent quite a while trying to find a definitive site that addresses this. Could I impose on you to cite some sources since you obviously have done some research yourself.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at October 31, 2006 01:22 PM"

    We have to quit meeting at holidays. If I don't get to making groceries and start cooking the headline will read "Mother and Grandmother Beaten to Death with an Unstuffed Turkey".

    If you can still find your sources re Talent or, if not, flesh out yout comments I would appreciate it.

    Will get back to you after Christmas.

    Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year!

    Janet Hawkins
    Grammie

    cee is high. He thinks its great that Bush has incurred more foreign debt for this country's future inhabitants than ALL PREVIOUS PRESIDENTS. He says it fine as long as we keep churning stuff out - citing a GDP that is based on war profits socked away in a chaotic vacuum totally unregulated as to progress or outcomes, and on the highest levels of corporate consulting. In short, a shell game.

    I suspect cee is near the top of the trickle - or sees himself there someday soon.

    The jobs of entire sectors of our real economy, on the other hand, are disappearing to the subcontinent of Asia; to China; to ex-key-domino Vietnam.

    Jt, this is the first post I made in response to you.

    "JT, I got to this point and somehow closed this page and lost it all. I definitely won't be able to finish today. The witching hour is fast approaching and I have some little goblins who are expecting me.

    JT RESPONDED:
    "Earlier this year, Talent co-sponsored a bill that would ban all embryonic stem-cell research and impose a $1 million fine and jail sentence on violators. That to me looks like the actions of someone who opposes embryonic stem cell research. He eventually withdrew his support but I am guessing his change of heart was more political than personal. Either way, given Fox�s own beliefs there is certainly reason to feel safer with the other candidate."

    GRAMMIE RESPONSE:
    Grammie cries 'Uncle' on this one. Don't get too excited. I have spent quite a while trying to find a definitive site that addresses this. Could I impose on you to cite some sources since you obviously have done some research yourself.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at October 31, 2006 01:22 PM"

    We have to quit meeting at holidays. If I don't get to making groceries and start cooking the headline will read "Mother and Grandmother Beaten to Death with an Unstuffed Turkey".

    If you can still find your sources re Talent or, if not, flesh out yout comments I would appreciate it.

    Will get back to you after Christmas.

    Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year!

    Janet Hawkins
    Grammie

    The jobs of entire sectors of our real economy, on the other hand, are disappearing to the subcontinent of Asia; to China; to ex-key-domino Vietnam.

    Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at December 22, 2006 12:22 PM

    Think about it the other way, those deveoping countries get jobs, means more consumption and they will buy goods from us. A few years ago, China has bought their first supercomputer from us.

    cee also denies, by implication, the existence of a "commons". The "excessive regulation and taxation" over which he sheds his crocodile (luekoitic albino leopard gekko?) tears are essential devices by which to protect the commons that supports our society.

    Along with tangible natural resources, one of the bounties of the American commons is liberty and equality under the law. Progressive taxation defends this - Teddy Rooseveldt knew this, that why he strove to tax inherited fortunes into the ground.

    The Buckley v Valeo decision of 1976 determined that money equals free speech in our political system. If this is to be accepted, drastic redistribution of wealth is required to bring our political system back into constitutional boundaries.

    My elf attitude is peristing even with the rants of Professor Honeydew ringing in my pointy ears.

    I will quote the esteemed Representative of PA...

    "I will not excuse murder and that what's happened."

    Judge AND jury statement.....unamerican, not fair to the accused and he was wrong for saying it....even if these men are found guilty.

    The Republican point of view is the right, american and COMPASSIONATE one here, professor,

    "I respect my friend John Murtha [but] we've got to let the uniformed code of military justice proceed before we reach any conclusions on this matter," Warner said. "This is very serious, but the military are looking at it equally seriously. … There is this question of what happened, when did it happen and what was the reaction of the Marine Corps when it happened?"

    That good old man fro Va speaks for the majority of my fellow countrymen in RESERVING judgement until the accused get their opportunity to address the allegations.

    And point 2.....

    Again, professor, I specifically stated that I would condemn Bush if you gave me evidence he personally profited from his pardons of these people....I do not know, (and I will not do your research), if these drug offenders deserved clemency or not....please present some SPECIFICS that can be verified.

    Perhaps one of the drug criminals was a grandfather who's little 5 yo grandson wrote Bush from his foster home asking he see him for Christmas?

    The third point...aw heck...
    I concede it as a Christmas present for the professor....

    President Bush is a bad, bad, very bad man for telling the army to potentially poison me and my family with the illegal transport of VX agent. I am so glad The Delaware Riverkeeper Network was diligent in keeping our country safe.

    Please pass the egg nog.

    cee is high. He thinks its great that Bush has incurred more foreign debt for this country's future inhabitants than ALL PREVIOUS PRESIDENTS.

    If WWIII was started by this administration, he'd not admit their culpability and blame it on Clinton.
    Cee is a fraud.

    cee is HIGH on Christmas spirit and brotherly LOVE!

    Jane,

    I'd be interested to know exactly where those supercomputers were made, and where their componentry was assembled.

    China can't buy our cars - their emmission standards are too high. They own all the most potentially relevant solar technology patents, so there's one high-potential product class that we won't be selling to China. America doesn't make anything anymore.

    The Republican point of view is the right, american and COMPASSIONATE one here, professor,

    Your republican view probably believed the initial report by the military that lied about the killings by the marines.

    Tell me I'm wrong.

    Is it compassionate and american to lie?

    Oh right...you've already demonstrated who you are...that answers my question.

    Fish in a barrel.

    "America doesn't make anything anymore."

    Oh yeah.....right....

    Tell that to my buddy who works in the nice Pfizer lab that is pursuing those nice drugs Bob and you will get through Medicare D......

    The world just loves all of the medical technology our country produces, and nice AMERICAN corporations have patents on.

    What was our GDP last year, Loin?

    It was from IBM, the revenue still goes to IBM. Economy is a cycle. Most people will look at M1 to see how many dollar bills are circulaing out there. We canoot print more dollar bills. It is true we do not manufacture as much as bfore for we are a well-deveoped country, we do not rely on manufacturing anymore. It is their turn, those developing countries. We sell services, education and technology. We are helping China, for instance, in medical care in many ways, I live in NC, both UNC and Duke have joint ventures in China to help them developing health care facilities. We provide services to them which they do not have right now.

    Professor, you are wrong.

    Please remember.....allegations of murder.....Do not ignore judge, jury, executioner....American DUE PROCESS!

    The silly rantings of a semi-senile Democratic hack who should be wearing cabana shorts in a Palm Beach over-55 community does not make for a good debate point for anyone....even Professor Bunsen Honeydew.

    Pass the Bailey's.....

    Professor, you are wrong.

    Please remember.....allegations of murder.....Do not ignore judge, jury, executioner....American DUE PROCESS!

    The silly rantings of a semi-senile Democratic hack who should be wearing cabana shorts in a Palm Beach over-55 community does not make for a good debate point for anyone....even Professor Bunsen Honeydew.

    Pass the Bailey's.....

    You depict Jack Murtha, war hero , as a semi-senile Democratic hack who should be wearing cabana shorts in a Palm Beach over-55 community .

    You depict,George Bush, military deserter,former cocaine fiend,war profiteer enabler and all around dunce as "my fine president".

    And just think...you weren't sloshed when you said the latter.

    fish-barrel


    Merry Christmas

    Too much Bailey's...double posting....double vision.....
    For your entertainment, I'll now be like Professor Honeydew and post an out-of-right-field non sequitur and demand all you guys respond....hiccup.....

    AP

    DEMOCRATIC District Attorney, Mike Nifong, dropped rape charges Friday against three Duke University lacrosse players accused of attacking a stripper at a team party. Joseph Cheshire and attorneys for the other players have said for months the woman told several different versions of the alleged assault.

    Merry Christmas you guys!

    Mmm....When will the liberals on this site admit this Democrat tried to railroad these poor guys for a crime they did not commit?

    (You do not really have to respond.....I am just trying to show Professor Honeydew (Bob) how annoying his ridiculous behavior has been this morning)

    Pass the creamed herring...

    I am just trying to show Professor Honeydew (Bob) how annoying his ridiculous behavior has been this morning)

    Posting AP news items is ridiculous behavior to you.
    I understand.

    Mmm....When will the liberals on this site admit this Democrat tried to railroad these poor guys for a crime they did not commit?

    Didn't know the DA was a democrat. So now I get why Hannity has made this issue a personal crusade.

    Figures, doesn't it ?


    Like him being a democrat has anything to do with anything.

    Dr. Cee appears to be locked up alone in his office on the computer, drinking for one.

    How sweet !


    Listen Cee, I live just outside Durham and this is not a Democrat/Republican issue, nor is it a Liberal/Conservative issue....no matter how hard you try to make it one. I don't even understand why it is a National issue. People get railroaded ny the legal system all the time, except most of the time, we never hear about it because most of them can't afford these kinds of lawyers who can, in turn, get the publicity this case has gotten.

    It is bad whenever the legal system misbehaves and it does appear that Nifong is completely out of line, but it isn't a partisan issue. Durham is a city with an almost even 50% black population mix. Like most Americans, Durham's residents don't really pay much attention to details in the news. All most of them really know is that three white boys from Duke are accused of raping a black girl and that their is some controversy about it.

    That said, do you know WHY Nifong has been re-elected? Two opposition candidates entered the race. The one actually on the ballot decided after filing that he "wouldn't have time" to serve if elected. The other one didn't file in time and became a "write in". Voters were thouroughly confused about how they could best vote against Nifong, and the opposition vote got split. Nifong actually got re-elected with less than a majority vote.

    Yes, Nifong appears to be a rogue Democrat, and thats no better than a rogue Republican, but this is not a partisan issue....not here, anyway!

    Professor Honeydew....

    How could I be alone in my office having such fun with egg nog, Bailey's and creamed herring?

    And again, you miss my point....I am asking you to defend your party collegue...This "blind-siding", a debate tactic that you constantly try to pull off by asking me to defend every professor-proclaimed right-winger or self-proclaimed Christian, is very annoying.

    So, again professor, what is your opinion about this sham DA.....DEMOCRAT Mike Nifong?

    Cee:

    So we are now down to being the world leader in making drugs. Wow, that really makes me swell with pride!

    All them folks with "restless legs syndrome" and other such life threatening maladies can certainly thank their lucky stars!

    Mike....

    I appreciate your education about local Durham politics, but I really do not hold the view that Nifong being a D has anything to do with his messing up this case. I was being sarcastic and putting myself in the professor's mindset about asking someone to respond about a topic that was not being discussed and defend someone simply because they have a (R), (D) or whatever after their name.

    Hey Mike...Did you enjoy Duke kicking Gonzaga's ass last night?

    I certainly did.

    Paulus is a warrior.
    Raivio is such a pussy.


    TDF


    Not just drugs, Mike.....medical technology includes surgical technology, imaging, radiation/noninvasives.....and yes.....

    STEM CELL RESEARCH....

    Which, despite the lies of The Dems, the US is LEADING in this great potential area.....Without the government funded labs killing nacent human life.

    Adult stem cells and umbilical stem cells are making cures already AND the private sector can experiment on all of those little people for their scientific experimentation without fear of prosecution. They just don't get my money.

    Oh boy, that Bailey's is really making me talk now.

    Mike,

    You are right about the city of Durham. When this news just started, the residents did have protest regarding the victim is an African woman and raped by some white young guys, who parents have lots of money and send them to one of the top ten best colleges. There are lots of issues on this matter: race, power, money, well-known college, mayor reelection year, etc. People did not talk about it that much here in NC, I live in NC, is because this issue is still under investigation until today. We are talking about three young men who go to the best college in this nation, the future of three young men. The university handles this incidence brilliantly, and still people don’t believe three young men get into the best school will do something like that. The victim changed the story several times and there is no DNA matched, no evidence. The incidence is very much like OJ Simpson case, the main difference is OJ is a celebrity and these three young men are good citizens who have bright future until they find guilty. The main similarity of this case is the color of both the accused and victim skin.

    And Thank you, Jessie Jackson was not part of this.

    Not so fast, they still face kidnapped and sexual offense counts.

    cee is HIGH on Christmas spirit and brotherly LOVE!

    Posted by: cee at December 22, 2006 12:40 PM

    You must be high on something.

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/12/al_qaeda_sends_.html

    Al Qaeda Sends a Message to Democrats
    December 22, 2006 2:28 PM
    Brian Ross and Hoda Osman Report:

    Al Qaeda has sent a message to leaders of the Democratic party that credit for the defeat of congressional Republicans belongs to the terrorists.

    In a portion of the tape from al Qaeda No. 2 man, Ayman al Zawahri, made available only today, Zawahri says he has two messages for American Democrats.

    "The first is that you aren't the ones who won the midterm elections, nor are the Republicans the ones who lost. Rather, the Mujahideen -- the Muslim Ummah's vanguard in Afghanistan and Iraq -- are the ones who won, and the American forces and their Crusader allies are the ones who lost," Zawahri said, according to a full transcript obtained by ABC News.

    Zawahri calls on the Democrats to negotiate with him and Osama bin Laden, not others in the Islamic world who Zawahri says cannot help.

    "And if you don't refrain from the foolish American policy of backing Israel, occupying the lands of Islam and stealing the treasures of the Muslims, then await the same fate," he said.

    Bob:

    I hate to say that I just found out from you that Duke won that game. I still follow them but I am not the rabid fan I used to be. Carolina - Duke this year is going to be interesting again.

    Go Heels.

    Go Heels.

    cee gets drunk on Bailey's - what a puss.

    And what do you drink? Gallo? Something that comes with the screw-on top? Oh no, let me guess. Beer. Or a bong.

    Brandon seems to thinks he's a big wheel - most of his posts involve some assumption regarding the financial inferiority of his opponents. This is the typical mode of self- vindication favored by the little corporate scuttle-butts that make up a large portion of the Republican base. Mortgaged to the hilt, overworked, but kept moving to the beat of the Free-Market drum by a bouncing carrot on a stick: "someday you'll have the corner office". Bullshit.

    Laphroaig, generally. Ard Beg when I feel I've been especially good. I also always keep a bottle of Bulliett around.

    So which is it Sir Hamburgler: are we rich, snooty country club types or are we in-breed trailer trash. You just can't seem to make up your mind. Just like you can't seem to make up your mind whether Bush is an evil genius or a brain-absent idiot. He can't be both any more than I can be both. You Dems just can't make up your minds can you?

    So which is it Sir Hamburgler: are we rich, snooty country club types or are we in-breed trailer trash. You just can't seem to make up your mind. Just like you can't seem to make up your mind whether Bush is an evil genius or a brain-absent idiot. He can't be both any more than I can be both. You Dems just can't make up your minds can you?

    Posted by: Brandon at December 23, 2006 10:26 PM

    I made up my mind a long long time ago that Bush was meither an evil genius or brain dead. He is a media creation who if it wasn't for his fathers name and money would be lucky to be employed. I was wrong to say that republicans are all "no daddy dont" victims of genetic failures. There is nothing funny about incest. There is however no doubt that snooty country club types have brainwashed trailer park trash to think that they are going to share a slice of the American dream if they work hard enough and get their tax cuts. These poor suckers are too stupid to know that "they" don't give a f--- about them, just their vote. They will give their children in a war or give up basic human rights and not blink an eye. They will die just as poor as they were before they took the bait and bit the hook of a false ideology and sold out religion. I don't look down on these people, I feel sorry for them. And I still have hope that enough of a true faith exists in them and will someday bite the f---ers in the ass who used them to get power and get rich.

    You know guys...

    I think I read a post back there about how marginal and unimaginative poor Olbermann is. The funny thing is you are damn right he's unimaginative. That's why when he looks at the hole in the ground at ground zero five years later he sees a crime against this nation. Because, that is what it is. That's why when he looks at this ill concieved bloody and shameful fiasco that is the Iraq war he sees the deaths of thousands of innocents and the wounds of many more. Because, that is what's there. That's why when he listens to the multitude of lies spun out of the whitehouse day after day, he recognizes them for what they are, lies. It's because he has no imagination whatsoever, he simply sees what is. So from me to whatever quasi-fascist neocon posted that ironic tidbit of wisdom, thanks for having the lack of imagination that allowed you to pick up on that fortunate truth.

    Sincerely,
    Josh (practicing Olbypologist)

    Brandon,

    Keep up. I've never called you morons "trailer trash" - that must be some internal self-doubt talking. And I don't believe you are "rich country club types" - that is just what you WANT to be; and to that pie-in-the-sky end you will sell this country down the river for your corporate masters (the real "snooty country club types"), and will probably work yourself into a thankless death eventually.

    Its called "Bourgeois".

    ...oh, but I do believe Bush is an idiot. A tool; a puppet; totally out of his depth. But he freely allows himself to be used by heartless pirates, so in the end he will swing from a yardarm with the rest of them.

    Hamburger: There's no wannabe where I'm concerned. I am. Too bad you haven't figured out how to make a very comfortable living and live the good life like I do. And too bad you haven't figured out that Olbermann is saying what he says just to pander to his audience and try and get viewers. If Fox was liberal, he'd be a conservative. Why do you think he keeps insisting in interviews he isn't biased, doesn't vote, would vote for McCain, etc? He's tried to tell you people and you're too thick-headed to get it. He doesn't BELIEVE what he says, he says what he says in an attempt to get an audience of ANY type. The thing that is most important to him is ratings and his career and if you think we Republicans are a cynical lot, you haven't quite figured out Olbermann yet.

    As I write this the "we report you decide... fair and balanced" Fox News is running the Purpose Driven Life Evangelical Christian sermon about Jesus and Christmas.

    So what you might say. Yes you might if Fox News portrayed itself as a Christian religion TV network. But they don't. They pretend to be about news reporting and pretend to be fair and balanced. In fact Fox News was established using 700 Club personnel as consultants on how to set up a Christian "news" network.

    So the next time someone like Brandon tries to pretend their is a more dire need to address the "hidden agenda" of MSNBC or KO, just remember that these people are Kool-Aid drinking brainwashed sheepeople who put freedom of the press and democracy second to religion and corporate owned media controls.

    I like to say to pin heads like Brandon - if you want to live in a nation ran by a religion you should move to Iran!

    Hello there, niggahs...

    I just thought i'd comment on redwolfs nonsensical assertion on December 19, that, 'He Lefties look at this video. Maybe it'll open your eyes about your Islamic allies.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymLJz3N8ayI'

    I do not know what a 'song' by some niggah who looks like a strange combination of Pooky from the movie 'Colors' and Berny Mack with crooked teeth would have to do with me & my alleged 'Islamic Allies,' but, to be honest with you I think that you, redwolf, are a NIGGAH!! A NIGGAH, NIGGAH, NIGGAH!! Who joins with his niggah buddy Reid Cox, (aka big red) to form the Niggah twin powers!

    &, furthermore, the fact that you are a Niggah should absolutely NOT exclude you from your local David Duke club... That would be discrimination, & I am against all forms of discrimination...

    Anyhow, just thought I'd share my views...

    Your favorite buddy,

    Michael
    aka That Niggah Kramer from Seinfeld

    Uh Purpose Driven Life at December 24, 2006...

    Why does the airing of a religious program on a privately funded cable network bother you?

    The government is not endorcing religion in this exercise, and FOX NEWS Channel correctly decided what programming was appropriate for their viewers. The marketplace will determine if this was in Fox's best interest and I will be curious to see how it did in the ratings.

    You are a relgious bigot, Purpose Driven Life. You only mention examples of Christian activity in your post, suggesting that there is some kind of agenda to undermine freedom....Please remember that singling out groups for restriction is bigotry....plain and simple.

    During this holiday season, I would suggest you reflect on your own attitudes towards others, both areligious and religious persons. It seems you are ready to restrict the activity of private individuals for your own ideology.

    You are not for freedom, Purpose Driven Life, you are for fascism based on secular philosophy and mores. People who think as you do, and Keith Olbermann for that matter, are the dangerous mentalities in our society who want everone else to think as they do.

    During this holiday season, republo-fascists, I would suggest you reflect on your own attitudes towards others, both religious and non-religious persons. It seems you are ready to restrict the activity of private individuals for your own ideology.

    You are not for freedom, Republican Right, you are for fascism based on sectarian philosophy and mores. People who think as you do, like George W. Bush and Bill O'Reilly and Rupert Murdoch, for that matter, are the dangerous mentalities in our society who want everone else to think as they do.

    Good thing Anonymous has you, Cee.

    Otherwise, he/she would have to frame up their own thoughts.