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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    December 4, 2006
    COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN - DECEMBER 4, 2006

    "COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" (8:00 P.M.-9:00 P.M. ET)

    Host: Keith Olbermann

    Topics/Guests:

    • THE RUMSFELD MEMO FALLOUT: Dana Milbank, Washington Post national political reporter and MSNBC political analyst
    • LOOKS LIKE SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-N.Y.) WILL RUN IN 2008: Margaret Carlson, TIME
    • JESSICA SIMPSON AT THE KENNEDY CENTER HONORS: Michael Musto, Village Voice columnist and author of "La Dolce Musto"

    Krazy Keith Returns! He bellowed the opening spiel with all the demagogic intensity required for The Hour of Spin: Rumsfeld's "wit and wisdom" (the memo), the tonsorially-enhanced David Gregory hectoring Tony Snow, Clinton/Kerry/Bayh, the "messed up" FBI, and a tale of two Simpsons. This is just too exciting.

    IDIOT

    Olby kicked things off with Rummy's memo, somehow making a comparison to Jacob Marley's Ghost. The timing of the leak was--all together now--"suspicious"! Rummy's many alternatives included one that Krazy Keith focused on: redeployment. See, Bush is a hypocrite because he campaigned against "cut and run". Rummy listed a bunch of alternatives, many of them inconsistent with each other. KO, of course, picked the one he could use against "Mister" Bush. A lengthy Gregory/Snow clip followed.

    Cue Dana Milbank, shorn of slapstick smocks. Edward R Olbermann immediately returned to Jacob Marley's ghost. DM called it "cover your ass memo writing", leaked by Rumsfeld loyalists. Monkeymann leaped to the defense of John Madden Murtha, claiming the White House "mischaracterized" his suggestion that troops redeploy to Okinawa. Then it was on to how "Mister" Bush will reconcile this with his stated policy and the upcoming Baker report (see Dogs below). Dana was great thanksed.

    LEFTY

    In the #4 slot, a recycled NBC report about the "cluelessness of the FBI". Then oddball and the #3 story: Hillary and the Dem contest of 2008. (Though somebody was confused about all this since onscreen they thought it was the #2 story.) Lefty Carlson was great thanksed before she said a single word, but Olby knew she would toe the party line. Herr Olbermann managed to use the phrase "right-wing base" three times in one question (as in McCain is "kowtowwing" to it), and yes, he great thanksed her again at the end.

    Fat Ass Olbermann also ran a clip of the News Watch correction. Hmm. The clip he ran was clearly from an internet posting; the compression artifacts were unmistakable, and looked very familiar. His clip did not show the Fox News ticker running on the bottom of the screen. How odd. Just like the clip posted here on Olbermann Watch. KO gave no acknowledgement as to where he got the clip. Aha! That clinches it.

    After more rerun reportage on the Russian spy case, it was on to Britney Spears, David Letterman, Rip Torn, and Gwyneth Paltrow. Jessica Simpson was the #1 story, with the creepy Michael Musto as expert commentator, talking about nipples, cleavage, and vomit.

    In the Media Matters Minute, Keith "Man on Fan" Olbermann branched out from attacking his chief Olbsession to going after someone on his staff, for doing a survey of newspaper critics (Fox). Plus Michael Savage (conservative). Plus Condi Rice (Republican). Hey, another trifecta of tendency--all three slots filled!

    OLBY

    Dogs that did not bark: The biggest bowser has got to be the non-correction and non-apology for Olby's deranged smear of one of his more successful competitors. That ain't gonna come until OlbyPlanet freezes over. The Democrats are breaking a campaign promise by rejecting one of the key 9/11 commission proposals that they claimed they would implement. Krazy Keith has been oddly silent. With tonight's talk about the memo, the Baker commission, etc., all Keith and Dana did was speculate about "Mister" Bush's reactions. That's because neither Olby nor Milbank bothered to reference the President's interview today, that touched on these very topics. Oh wait, that was with Brit Hume. Better to not report the news than admit it was made on Fox. And still KO refuses to tell his viewers how Jack Abramoff has pointed the finger of corruption at none other than Sen Harry Reid.

    NAME

    Olbermann's book The book that bears Olberman's name is down to #496 at amazon, while Mr Bill's "Culture Warrior" has risen to #12. At Barnes & Noble the OlbyTome circles the drain at #1,822, while O'Reilly's book is #28. And Mr Bill's literary triumph is still #3 on the New York Times Best Sellers list. The Speshul Komment hype for Thursday helped a little on Friday: second place in total viewers--though The Factor bested Countdown by more than three to one--and in the critical, beloved, all-important, coveted "key demo". Tonight's MisterMeter reading: 2 [LOW]


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (78) | | View blog reactions
    user-pic

    78 Comments

    Johnny Dollar is a hero of the people!

    But I thought that blogs, like this one, can't be trusted because anonymous people are behind them. Okay, I guess it's true that Bob Cox is far from being anonymous. But it's good to know that Olby thinks that Owatch is worthy of being borrowed from. Not that he'd ever admit it. Instead, he prefers to lift directly from Huffington Post and Media Matters and present items there as if his cracker jack staff has uncovered "breaking news".

    For the umpteenth time.. Keith's show is quite sad, and outside of the special comments I do not make an effort to watch it anymore, because I can get most of his material off of HuffPo, MM, and FDL. We like him because actually stands up to authority, but the question is.. will he still stand up to that power once January has arisen. If he becomes a schill for the Dem congress and house his hypocrisy will doom him to reporting high school sports until he is 70.

    O'Lielly, are you feeling okay? Are you running a fever? Did you just admit that Olbermann's show is well, rather lame? or that he's biased? Okay, who has kidnapped the real O'Lielly?

    Uh oh! Look whats NOT happening here! It's almost 10 o'clock and there are only 4 posts above this one. Is KO's show becoming too mundane?

    Johnny D is a lot easier to read than watching KrazyKeith. Thanks for the public service, Johnny.

    After reading his comments, or should I say insults, in Radar today, I don't care to waste too much of my life on this loser. The show was a yawnfest. Maybe he's minding his manners since demeaning his boss (again) and others at MSNBC. He's got to be one popular guy at the Peacock. Not.

    Boy, when he starts to lose the likes of O'Lielly he'd better start reading up on how to pronounce those hockey names.

    Repeat after me, Keith: Oh-vech-kin. Yaromir-Yager.

    Question is: Will ESPN take him back?

    Yep Freechie, you would rather read a biased report about a biased show. It would seem to me that you are not going to get the unvarnished "truth" you are seeking in either place...just like you will never get it on JD's beloved "Factor" either.

    "just like you will never get it on JD's beloved "Factor" either."

    For the ten thousandth time: O'Reilly has NEVER claimed to be a "news anchor" on a "new show." He says all the time that his sow is about him giving his analysis as he sees it of news and events.

    Factor is not sold as a news program.

    Truth in advertising.

    He probably won't have a future at ESPN unless Dan Patrick baby-sits him all the time.

    A link needs to be put up on the main page to the radar online interview with Keith. He rips Abrams and addresses the Karma Bites blog. On the page of the interview it has Keith doing the Nazi Salute with the caption "Kill Bill". Nice you f---ing losers.

    Here's the link: http://www.radaronline.com/features/2006/12/olbermann.php

    He comes off as the egotistical, self-serving a--hole he really is in that interview.

    Mike,

    A few days ago you said that there were no "universal truths about war". I hate it when you lie to me. You no more believe that there are "no universal truths about war" than you believe that the moon is made of bleau cheese. The real truth is that you don't care what the universal truths about war are. It just doesn't interest you. Using logic and reasoning don't really interest you either. And you hate being asked questions. If you were a little more clever you would have said that "there are no universal truths about anything whatsoever". If you want to stop the debate you might as well stop it all the way.

    Just by coincidence, I have concluded for years that a person who hates being asked questions, and is not interested in facts, reasoning, and logic is always a hopeless leftist. That sounds like somebody we know. Every time I bring something up that would require you to think you respond with "No, no, no! Not that, not that, not that!"

    You claim that I have raised the bar too high in defining victory in the War on Terror. You have it set so low it isn't even there. But that is just a scam on your part anyway. In fact, you do not think that we have the moral right to win the War on Terror. Setting the bar too low is just your little way to try to keep us from winning. If you were any less on "our" side you would be on the other side.

    You should just "out" yourself. Stand up and say "I am Mike and I don't want my own side to win the War on Terror". I know you can do it.

    Rico:

    Rico, I don't have a problem with being asked a question, but I have a big problem with someone trying to control that so-called debate and keep it within their own terms and timetable.

    If you want to debate me, don't try to lead the debate as if you were some sort of an official moderator. Also, don't accuse me of not answering your questions simply because you don't like my answers. I answered your pointless questions...if you don't like my answers, thats your damned problem.

    I guess there are a few universal truths about war, just not the ones you were attempting to "lead" me to. (1) - War is always hell. (2) The only predictable thing about war is that it is unpredictable, (3) - People WILL die and attocities WILL occurr, & (4) - There are always at least two sides, and both firmly believe they are the "good" guys.

    ALL of the above reasons are each in themselves good reasons why invading Iraq was just about the stupidist thing our country has ever done.

    Your side is the one that has completely screwed up the war on terror, and no amount of fact twisting or rationalization on your part will change that!


    Keith if you are reading this, just come right out and say you have an "opinion" show. All of your critics claim they will just go away if you'll just do that!

    Meanwhile I still like your show, regardless of what you or MSNBC call it.

    Mike,
    Your side has demoralized the American people and mimics the enemy's talking points!

    Mike,
    Your side has demoralized the American people and mimics the enemy's talking points!

    Yea, Mr. Wolf, just like we did in Vietnam!

    Oh wait, I remember now, I was brainwashed during Vietnam just like you are today.

    Uh oh! Look whats NOT happening here! It's almost 10 o'clock and there are only 4 posts above this one. Is KO's show becoming too mundane?

    Posted by: Anonymous at December 4, 2006 09:51 PM

    Maybe it's because the truth that Keith was telling about this president and our war is now accepted as fact and no longer debatable by most sane people. I also noticed that a few regular right wing loving posters have not been here in a while. Could it be they went elsewhere because they got tired of having to defend the dumbness that they let themselves be seduced by. Yoo Hoo, where are you? Probably spouting the same BS to each other on some other site. Bye Bye.

    KOWASANDISRIGHTON:

    Not quite right....I scan the posts for some stupid comment from a left-winger (like your's) to comment on and have found they have been less frequent lately (Thank God!), since the election....So I guess I can interpret this as less dumb libs (like yourself) coming by and posting easily refuted arguments.

    Keith Olbermann always provides material to take down...and Robert and J$ always do a great job.

    The real "shame" will be when Olbermann's and MSNBC's anemic numbers continue, despite their attempt to play to the looney left, results in their cancellation by the mothership....poor KO will need to be put on suicide watch.

    His show, and MSNBC for that matter, is neither entertaining nor informative. This blog and the MSNBC website are the only exposure I get of their poor product....(Are you listening advertisers?)

    Sorry Cee, you forget all the fawning articles in the mainstream media that tell us breathlessly how "good" Olbermann's ratings are these days.

    His show, and MSNBC for that matter, is neither entertaining nor informative. This blog and the MSNBC website are the only exposure I get of their poor product....(Are you listening advertisers?)

    Posted by: cee at December 5, 2006 05:33 AM

    KO's show is entertaining and informative. He works for a station that is drowned out by Fox which is a prostitute for all things right wing. The brainwashing that Fox has been leading is wearing off (thank God) and Keith is here to stay. Even if his show was canceled he can feel good about the work he has done. The ones that should feel shame are the ones who supported Bush and his stubborn and stupid foreign policy.


    NOMINEE GATES: U.S. LOSING IN IRAQ

    -- White House Declares Gates ‘Terrorist Organization’ --

    WASHINGTON -- Asked if he thought the United States was winning the war in Iraq, Defense secretary nominee Robert Gates answered with a simple ‘no.’ The former CIA director also told the Senate Armed Services Committee that he was ‘open to new ideas’ regarding policy in Iraq and if confirmed, he would quickly consult military commanders in the field and politicians back home to determine the best course of action in Iraq. ‘Unfortunately’, remarked Gates, ‘it is the president who will decide what, if any, changes are made to our approach in Iraq.’


    If Kerry or Dean said we were losing in Iraq you would be hearing how they are hurting morale and that the terrorists love them. Like I said, most sane people accept the fact that Bush's foreign policy is the worst ever. I'm sure though that cee knows better than Gates.

    "This blog has run its course, hasn't it?"

    No. Orange Boy is still on the air polluting the airwaves with his lies and distortions. A corrective is required for his one sided cheerleading for the left fringe and this blog provides it.

    "This blog has run its course, hasn't it?"

    No. Orange Boy is still on the air polluting the airwaves with his lies and distortions. A corrective is required for his one sided cheerleading for the left fringe and this blog provides it.

    Posted by: hank at December 5, 2006 12:06 PM

    This blog does provide correctiveness of right wing propoganda that has been filtered down to the posters here who condem KO for his standing up against a wanna be dictator. KO is right on the mark. Keep up the good work Keith.

    Oh and by the way... KO was and is right on the mark when it comes to Bush. The war. Warrantless wiretaps. Torture. O'Reily. Fox. Coulter. Etc.....

    Life just feels so much better knowing that Bush is a lameduck and Republicans will not have dominance over the congress and the senate for many many years. Who would have guessed that Bush could screw things up so bad for them. Me!

    This blog has run its course, hasn't it?"

    No. Olby-Wan is still on the air revealing how the deplorable, despicable neo-cons are polluting the world with their lies and their distortions and their cheerleader-in-chief, Boy King George. A corrective is required for his one sided cheerleading for the right fringe and this blog provides merely an outlet for the morons who support the liars who support the cheerleader who sells the wars which enable the torture that protects the profiteers.

    Re: The last several meaningless posts....

    Where are they serving the Kool-Aid today?


    FAILING FASCIST SEEKS SUCCOR AT FAUX FOX

    -- Troubled President Comforted By Suckling At The Teat Of Propaganda --

    WASHINGTON -- President Bush met with Fox News anchor Brit Hume on Sunday for a "sit down" interview and expressed doubt that Iraq was in the midst of a civil war, since "most of the country outside of the Baghdad area, is relatively peaceful." Bush also added, "And I've heard people say Iraq is in a civil war, but I've talked to other morons who agree with me and do not believe that is the case." In addition to denying that Iraq is in a civil war, Bush also denied that the "judgment of history" on what he has done will be far worse than that of contemporary views.


    Cee:

    You and a few others love to use terms like the "looney left", etc. I guess the so called left is 'looney' just because you say they are!

    OK Cee, lets talk about 'looney'!

    - 'Looney' is invading a country half way around the world that did not attack us, and had absolutely nothing to do with the group that did. Saddam was, in truth, an enemy and an obstacle to Al Queda.

    - 'Looney' was doing the above mentioned invasion with no reasonable plans to secure that country after the military victory, which was virtually assured. The part that was NEVER assured was how we would prevent anarchy after we got in there.

    - 'Looney' is spending massive amounts of money we don't even have, in order to finance that ill conceived war and occupation....money that is largely being borrowed from other nations that could easily be an adversary in the not so distant future. Think China if you really want something to fear!

    - 'Looney' was giving massive tax cuts to the very people who didn't need them precisely at a time when the country desperately does.

    - 'Looney' is blindly following a disastrous foreign policy that has clearly failed, as if by continuing to do exactly the same thing you've been doing is going to somehow deliver different results.

    - 'Looney' is quietly sitting back like sheep and saying nothing while your very own elected government tampers with the Constitution, the Geneva Convention, and the very freedoms we are supposedly fighting for.

    Cee, you keep claiming that arguements from the left are "easily refuted"....then why is it that your arguements never successfully 'refute' anything? Your arguements are all so very shallow and scripted...full of insults and cute little labels, but never stating anything new or enlightning.

    Cee, you keep claiming that arguements from the left are "easily refuted"....then why is it that your arguements never successfully 'refute' anything? Your arguements are all so very shallow and scripted...full of insults and cute little labels, but never stating anything new or enlightning.

    Posted by: Mike at December 5, 2006 01:16 PM

    I think cee's arguements are rather looney myself. He probably gets his idea's from some fat rich TV evangelist who sold him some books on the end times and the rapture.

    MACHIAVELLIAN DEMS SNUB BASE

    -- Leaders Ready to Abandon Far Left Ideologues

    WASHINGTON -- Soon to be Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, continuing her rapid transformation from San Francisco liberal outsider to "Beltway Queen" made more overtures to centrists today with a caucus meeting headlining former Clinton Administration free-trader Robert Rubin. In the apparent slap-in-the-face move, Madame Speaker-to-be even went so far as to bar Big Labor from the meeting, incurring the wrath of the liberal blogosphere. Said one blue Kool-Aid drinker, "We put them there, dammit! Next they'll be saying the troops aren't coming home for Christmas!"

    Cee, you keep claiming that arguements from the left are "easily refuted"....then why is it that your arguements never successfully 'refute' anything? Your arguements are all so very shallow and scripted...full of insults and cute little labels, but never stating anything new or enlightning.

    here, here.
    and a nice looney list as well -- abridged, of course, because of limited space.
    (and it contains very few items that will even be addressed by cee, let alone argued, not to mention refuted)

    Hey Mike and KOWASANDISRIGHTON,

    At least my shallow arguments, scripted opinions and looney intentions are not in lock step with the honorable President Ahmadinejad.

    To quote the Olbermann idol...

    "Governments are there to serve their own people. No people wants to side with or support any oppressors. But regrettably, the US administration disregards even its own public opinion and remains in the forefront of supporting the trampling of the rights of the Palestinian people."

    "Let's take a look at Iraq. Since the commencement of the US military presence in Iraq, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed, maimed or displaced. Terrorism in Iraq has grown exponentially. With the presence of the US military in Iraq, nothing has been done to rebuild the ruins, to restore the infrastructure or to alleviate poverty. The US Government used the pretext of the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but later it became clear that that was just a lie and a deception."

    "Although Saddam was overthrown and people are happy about his departure, the pain and suffering of the Iraqi people has persisted and has even been aggravated."

    "In Iraq, about one hundred and fifty thousand American soldiers, separated from their families and loved ones, are operating under the command of the current US administration. A substantial number of them have been killed or wounded and their presence in Iraq has tarnished the image of the American people and government."

    "Their mothers and relatives have, on numerous occasions, displayed their discontent with the presence of their sons and daughters in a land thousands of miles away from US shores. American soldiers often wonder why they have been sent to Iraq."

    "I consider it extremely unlikely that you, the American people, consent to the billions of dollars of annual expenditure from your treasury for this military misadventure."

    "You have heard that the US administration is kidnapping its presumed opponents from across the globe and arbitrarily holding them without trial or any international supervision in horrendous prisons that it has established in various parts of the world. God knows who these detainees actually are, and what terrible fate awaits them."

    "You have certainly heard the sad stories of the Guantanamo and Abu-Ghraib prisons. The US administration attempts to justify them through its proclaimed "war on terror." But every one knows that such behavior, in fact, offends global public opinion, exacerbates resentment and thereby spreads terrorism, and tarnishes the US image and its credibility among nations."

    "The US administration's illegal and immoral behavior is not even confined to outside its borders. You are witnessing daily that under the pretext of "the war on terror," civil liberties in the United States are being increasingly curtailed. Even the privacy of individuals is fast losing its meaning. Judicial due process and fundamental rights are trampled upon. Private phones are tapped, suspects are arbitrarily arrested, sometimes beaten in the streets, or even shot to death."

    "As everybody knows, the Zionist regime was created to establish dominion of arrogant states over the region and to enable the enemy to penetrate the heart Muslim land."

    "Today scores of Western politicians are in doubt as to the future of this illegitimate regime and its existence has come under question.

    "There is no doubt the Palestinian nation and Muslims as a whole will emerge victorious. The continued commission of crimes by the Zionist regime will speed up the collapse of this fictitious regime."

    "What has blind support for the Zionists by the US administration brought for the American people? It is regrettable that for the US administration, the interests of these occupiers supersedes the interests of the American people and of the other nations of the world.

    "What have the Zionists done for the American people that the US administration considers itself obliged to blindly support these infamous aggressors? Is it not because they have imposed themselves on a substantial portion of the banking, financial, cultural and media sectors?"

    In point of fact, almost all of Olbermann's Special Comments seem to lift material from the articulate Mahmoud!

    You guys are terrific!

    MACHIAVELLIAN DEMS SNUB BASE ... Oh yes, and snubbing your base is certainly comparable to 3K dead soldiers, 30K wounded soldiers, a military stretched to the breaking point, 100K dead civilians, 500 billion dollars down the toilet (and a few hundred billion more on the way), a rollback of constitutional freedoms, disenfranchised allies, systematic state-sanctioned torture, and an inflamed middle east. Oh yes, a BASE SNUB does sound pretty consequential in comparison. Kind of like wasting a republics time and attention -- after the FIRST WTC BOMBING -- by impeaching the leader of the free worlds only remaining superpower for lying about a blowjob.

    Anon @ 2:11 was cee....

    Ok, I'll bite...

    "invading a country half way around the world that did not attack us, and had absolutely nothing to do with the group that did. Saddam was, in truth, an enemy and an obstacle to Al Queda."

    ---Debatable accusation and easily put down about 3 weeks ago on this same blog.....check the archive where I discuss VP Cheney's MEET THE PRESS interview pre-election. Good stuff.

    "doing the above mentioned invasion with no reasonable plans to secure that country after the military victory, which was virtually assured. The part that was NEVER assured was how we would prevent anarchy after we got in there."

    ---More hand-wringing from the cowardly left who likes coulda/shoulda more than fighting for people's freedom. Not worth my time trying to discuss....You guys love playing Monday-Morning quarterback.

    "giving massive tax cuts to the very people who didn't need them precisely at a time when the country desperately does."

    ---Easy one...mmm, I make about 60,000/year and saw a nice decrease in my federal tax bill that felt kind of nice. I liked it and hope the democrats don't take it away from me. Will they?

    "spending massive amounts of money we don't even have, in order to finance that ill conceived war and occupation....money that is largely being borrowed from other nations that could easily be an adversary in the not so distant future. Think China if you really want something to fear!"

    --- Just like we were supposed to be afraid of The Japanese during the borrowing and selling of real estate in the 1980's. Fear is a nice weapon the left loves to use even when they decry others using fear.

    "blindly following a disastrous foreign policy that has clearly failed, as if by continuing to do exactly the same thing you've been doing is going to somehow deliver different results."

    ---Wow, where did you lift that sound bite. It has not yet failed since there is a ruling Iraqi government....When they go, then talk to me about failure. Stop being so defeatist! I can hear your hands wringing!

    "quietly sitting back like sheep and saying nothing while your very own elected government tampers with the Constitution, the Geneva Convention, and the very freedoms we are supposedly fighting for."

    ---Again, easily put down time and again after each Special Comment from Herr Olbermann....check the archives, gents....The demagoguery is getting thick!

    So, I would say that the list WAS pretty "easily refuted." Nice.



    wah, wah, wah, JZ.....Perhaps if President Clinton had resigned, the wonderful replacement, President Gore, could have prevented 9/11 and we would all be living is a beautiful utopia!!!!!

    Coulda/shoulda....wah!

    Cee:

    I'm not going to bother...but believe me, you haven't refuted a thing! Same shallow, baseless arguements.

    It really would be interesting to get into a brain like yours to see whats going on in there!

    check the archive where I discuss VP Cheney's MEET THE PRESS interview pre-election. Good stuff.

    PURE BULLSHIT.

    -------------

    ---More hand-wringing from the cowardly left who likes coulda/shoulda more than fighting for people's freedom. Not worth my time trying to discuss....You guys love playing Monday-Morning quarterback.

    IRAQ ISN'T/WAST'T EVER FREEDOM FIGHTING.
    AND YES, LET'S IGNORE THE PART ABOUT ILLEGALLY LYING US INTO A FOOLISH INCOMPETENTLY WAGED WAR OF CHOICE.
    PLUS, YOU DIDN'T ADDRESS THE POINT.

    ------------

    I make about 60,000/year and saw a nice decrease in my federal tax bill that felt kind of nice.

    AND WELL WORTH WASTING HALF A TRILLION BUCKS ON 3K DEAD SOLDIERS.
    PLUS, YOU DIDN'T ADDRESS THE POINT.

    ------------

    Just like we were supposed to be afraid of The Japanese during the borrowing and selling of real estate in the 1980's. Fear is a nice weapon the left loves to use even when they decry others using fear.

    NO, FEAR IS THE REPUBLICAN CARD.
    PLUS, YOU DIDN'T ADDRESS THE POINT.

    -----------

    wow, where did you lift that sound bite. It has not yet failed since there is a ruling Iraqi government....

    HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!

    OOOPS....again, Anon @ 2:32 was cee....your

    cynical
    racist
    greedy
    self-rightous
    homophobic
    science-hating
    rednecked
    sexually repressed

    right-winger.......

    Anon, posting it caps or repeating it does not make it any less idiotic.

    And Mike....I have gone toe2toe with smarter libs than you and been very satisfied with the result....So put your ruler away, zip up your pants and go back to watching JERRY SPRINGER.

    To those poor self - deluding souls still defending the war, I will concede this:

    (1) - If we had taken the intelligent route and had never invaded Iraq, the Neocons would still be screaming that we should do it.

    (2) - If Kerry had been elected and started a withdrawal at that time, the Neocons would have been screaming and yelling that "victory" had been almost at hand, and would have happened if we had just stayed a little longer.

    In other words, cooler heads could never have prevailed. It was a mistake the Neocons were determined to make, come hell or high water.

    Please Neocons, will you now just go to your corner and shut up?

    nothing worth wringing your hands over ...

    3K dead soldiers,
    30K wounded soldiers,
    a military stretched to the breaking point,
    100K dead civilians,
    500 billion dollars down the toilet (and a few hundred billion more on the way),
    a rollback of constitutional freedoms, disenfranchised allies,
    systematic state-sanctioned torture,
    and an inflamed middle east.

    (2) - Neocons -- i.e., the resident OW morons -- WILL BE FOREVER screaming and yelling that "victory" had been almost at hand, and would have happened if we had just stayed a little longer!

    yeah, right.

    "I have gone toe2toe with smarter libs than you and been very satisfied with the result."

    um, yeah. because you're a moron.

    You guys are making Mahmoud so proud! Keep up the good work!

    You guys are making Mussolini so proud! Keep up the good work!

    back in BUSH I days, the neocons were called "the crazies" by everyone in the White House and at the Pentagon. that's why BUSH Sr. didn't go into Baghdad during the first gulf war, because it was foolishly insane. but Bush Jr., being a lot dumber than his dad, fell for the line cheney and rummy fed him. hook line and sinker. now you can see why "the crazies" were called as much. they finally got the chance to do just what they wanted with iraq and the middle east, and look how nice they've f---ed it all up.

    Q:Now one of the things we are talking about a lot and seeing a lot is that the same people that were there during the Reagan-Bush years and even before, the Wolfowitzes the Rumsfelds, Cheneys were there then. What was George BushÂ’s view of these people then?

    A: Well, you know it’s really interesting. When we saw these people coming back in town, all of us said who were around in those days said, oh my god, ‘the crazies’ are back – ‘the crazies’ – that’s how we referred to these people.

    Q: Did George Bush refer to them that way?

    A: ThatÂ’s the way everyone referred to them.

    Q: Including George Bush?

    A: Well, when Wolfowitz prepared that defense posture statement in 1991, where he elucidated the strategic vision that has now been implemented, Jim Baker, Secretary of State, Brent Scowcroft, security advisor to George Bush, and George Bush said hey, that thing goes right into the circular file. Suppress that thing, get rid of it. Somebody had the presence of mind to leak it and so that was suppressed. But now to see that arise out of the ashes and be implemented. while we start a war against Iraq, I wonder what Bush the first is really thinking. Because these were the same guys that all of us referred to as ‘the crazies’.

    If Kerry had been elected and started a withdrawal at that time, the Neocons would have been screaming and yelling that "victory" had been almost at hand, and would have happened if we had just stayed a little longer.....

    Oh yeah, and those nice Iraqi civilians....mostly Sunni and Kurds, would have really been served well by retreat and defeat....

    And again....you'd be giving OBL and Mahmoud exactly what they want.....a defeated/retreating Paper Tiger...nice......strange bedfellows you have Mike and Anon.

    Cee:

    I'm going to go ahead and address just one tiny part of your earlier post, because it clearly helps to illustrate who you are, and just how self absorbed you are:

    You said: "I make about $60,000 a year and saw a nice decrease in my Federal Tax bill and it felt kind of nice. I like it and hope the Dems don't take it away": Wow, talk about self-centered thinking when your country in an elective war that YOU supported!

    What about wrong - headed and selfish thinking during a time of war! You should have been willing and able to do everything you could possibly to help your country get through in it's time of need. You should have been willing to make sacrifices FAR greater than giving up a few tax dollars!

    I can just picture you sitting back in your easy chair watching your new plasma TV, paid for with tax cuts (and made in China), that could have been better used to help the war effort...all the while cheering on the troops by watching Faux News and pretending to be patriotic!

    The truth is, the ONLY Americans really sacrificing in this war are the troops and their families, and boy are they sacrificing!....There is something deeply wrong and disturbing about that picture. The rest of us should feel little but shame for having put them in what may be a no win situation.

    Last but not least: The Dems are hardly interested in going after $60,000 a year, nor is that what anyone is talking about when they discuss tax cuts for the wealthy. You got a token tax cut at your level just to keep you quiet and happy while the big boys raked in the REAL tax cuts.

    Oh yeah, and those nice Iraqi civilians....mostly Sunni and Kurds, would have really been served well by retreat and defeat....

    yes, and they'll be much better served by the destruction of their infrastructure ... followed by the new and improved retreat and defeat ... coming unavoidably soon to a quagmire near you ...

    ----------

    And again....you'd be giving OBL and Mahmoud exactly what they want.....a defeated/retreating Paper Tiger...nice......strange bedfellows you have Mike and Anon.

    yeah, and we never should have left vietnam, because that's just what the north wanted.

    I make about 60,000/year and saw a nice decrease in my federal tax bill that felt kind of nice.

    AND WELL WORTH WASTING HALF A TRILLION BUCKS ON 3K DEAD SOLDIERS.

    From everyone's favorite peace activist, Cindy Sheehan...

    "Two leading neocons are out of government now and we must make sure that Rummy and Bolton are tried for war crimes and they are not allowed to go off and live comfortable civilian lives. The people whose lives they have ruined will never be comfortable again."

    Will those good Democratic Senators and Representatives endorse such a cause to rid the republic of the eeeevil Neocons?

    Neocons
    Neocons
    Neocons
    Neocons
    Neocons
    Neocons

    Begin building the re-education camps!

    Cee:

    You really don't have a clue what Mahmoud actually wants, or what he wants us to do!

    Me?...I don't really give a damn what he or any other enemy of this country says.

    I care that we do the right thing, and that we use the most effective strategy, and not be goaded into doing something self destructive again, as we have already done.


    BUSH SR. SOBS WHILE SPEAKING OF SON

    -- Not The War Criminal Son, The Other Fascist Son --

    TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Dec. 5) - Former President George H.W. Bush came here Monday to talk about leadership and opened his remarks with advice on working with rivals, and ended by sobbing in tears while speaking of his son, Gov. Jeb Bush -- as an example of leadership and the way he handled losing the 1994 governor's race. "A true measure of a man is how you handle victory and how you handle defeat." Consequently, Bush Sr. will have plenty of time to measure how his son, President Bush, handles defeat in Iraq and the slow realization of his disgraced place in U.S. presidential history.

    Begin building the re-education camps!

    you must mean the George W. Bush Presidential Library.

    Again, the caps, anon....get a clue.......

    Mike, all I do is listen to the man and I know what he wants....does that seem unreasonable?

    See my 2:11 post.

    Oh, I see....because Mahmoud says things exactly like the left in this country say, (including the wonderful KO), you're confused.

    I was taught to listen to people and judge them by their actions. Simple common sense advise that has served this moron well....

    Mmmm....Iran supports Hezbollah.
    Mmmm....Iran is supplying the Shiite insurgency in Iraq.
    Mmmm....The President of Iran says The United States should get out of Iraq as soon as possible.
    Mmmm....The President of Iran voices concern over my constitutional rights and privacy while encouraging the enforcement of sharia over his own subjects.

    What is wrong with this picture, Mike?

    responce to Cee's non points

    ---Debatable accusation and easily put down about 3 weeks ago on this same blog.....check the archive where I discuss VP Cheney's MEET THE PRESS interview pre-election. Good stuff.

    Easliy put down? I can't comment on that as I do not feel like spending an hour looking through archives fro your point. I will say this that there was a connection between Iraq and al Qaeda being that they existed in the same region and both hated the U.S. I would also say that al Qaeda has a stronger connection to Saudia Arabia than Iraq. The facts that have come out paint a picture of some contact here and there but NO WORKING REALTIONSHIP.

    ---More hand-wringing from the cowardly left who likes coulda/shoulda more than fighting for people's freedom. Not worth my time trying to discuss....You guys love playing Monday-Morning quarterback.

    This sounds like someone who actually knows the point they are trying to refute is true. One you didn't make any attempt to refute it and two, you played the "oh you leftist" card which has nothing to do with the point that was made.

    --- Just like we were supposed to be afraid of The Japanese during the borrowing and selling of real estate in the 1980's. Fear is a nice weapon the left loves to use even when they decry others using fear.

    It's funny you said this because this point or "fear" in the eighties was made by conservatives.

    ---Wow, where did you lift that sound bite. It has not yet failed since there is a ruling Iraqi government....When they go, then talk to me about failure. Stop being so defeatist! I can hear your hands wringing!

    Please show me this "ruling Iraqi government" you are talking about. Last I checked if we left they would be toppled in 5 minutes. Last I checked their capital city Is seeing 3000 dead bodies a month. Last I checked oil fields were being attacked. These are not defeatist points. This is reality. All the "defeatists" as you call them are wanting to do is reevaluate our policy over there since it has failed up to this point. Even Robert Gates said we are losing the war in Iraq. You know the same Robert Gates who Bush has tagged to replace Rumsfeld. He is damn defeatist by your criteria.

    ---Again, easily put down time and again after each Special Comment from Herr Olbermann....check the archives, gents....The demagoguery is getting thick!

    I keep looking and looking but there is absolutely no substance in this answer. Maybe instead of saying check the archives, you should be more helpful and supportive of your position by going to the archives yourself, finding the point you made since you know better than anyone else where that point is and doing a little trick called copy and paste. Then at least you would actually be saying something.

    Cee:

    So you take everything your enemy says verbatum as 'truth'. You are more naive than I thought.

    By that line of logic, you would have believed everything Tokyo Rose said during WWII.

    I'm a little more pragmatic than you. I tend to believe my enemy will say anything that he thinks will help further his own self interest, be it truth, or be it a lie. That is why I don't give a damn what he says.

    Cee:

    C'mon talk to us. You keep talking about IRAN, rather than Iraq. What is your answer in dealing with them?....to attack Iran? So what exactly are we going to attack them with? Hell, you might actually have to give up your precious little tax break! Come to think of it, you might even have to enlist!

    I'm not going to waste my time, Dave, going over arguments I have discussed in the past. The Iraq/WMD issue is still a debatable issue and no one will convince anyone....go talk to Colin Powell...And if you have proof Bush lied, show it to me.

    "This sounds like someone who actually knows the point they are trying to refute is true. One you didn't make any attempt to refute it and two, you played the "oh you leftist" card which has nothing to do with the point that was made."

    Uh, duh, I live in today and plan for the future....The post Saddam period saw an insurgency supported by Iran, Syria and Al Quada. Those of the left who are on the side lines throwing stones do not have any workable solutions to the problem. I say, support the elected government of Iraq 100% until it is able to keep order...it is the honorable thing to do.

    "Just like we were supposed to be afraid of The Japanese during the borrowing and selling of real estate in the 1980's. Fear is a nice weapon the left loves to use even when they decry others using fear.

    It's funny you said this because this point or "fear" in the eighties was made by conservatives."

    ---So are you saying the scare tactic used by your liberal friend is as inane....I totally agree!

    And Mike.....History teaches us that maniacal words do mean something....The ideology of militant islam is real, it has killed millions over the past 60 years and their goal for a panmuslim middle east is being actively pursued. I know the anti-Semitic left could not care less about Israel, but they are an ally, and a democratic nation. They deserve our support.

    People who would abandon millions to despotic islamic terrorists (moderate Muslims, agnositc secularists, Buddhists, Christians and Jews alike), should be called what they truly are....

    cowards.

    Live with it.

    Cee:

    It rings a little hollow calling us cowards while you're the won enjoying your pitifull little tax cut while the troops are dying in a poorly planned Occupation you still call "the war on terror that you cheered on with naive enthusiasm.

    Why don't you break yourself away from O'Reilly, Hannity, and the like for a week or so and take a real close look at what is actually happening in Iraq! You really think we are doing anything right now to help these people?

    The simple truth is NO ONE knows what will happen in Iraq if we leave. Nor does anyone have enough of a crystal ball to say whether our leaving will actually worsen or improve the situation. The very ones making the most dire predictions about this are the SAME idiots who led us into this mess in the first place. Yea, Cee, we should keep right on listening to them....LOL!

    You call us cowards? I'm a veteran....are you! Did YOU enlist to help us out in this effort?

    That said, I never said we are in a simple situation. Most messes are a lot harder to clean up than they were to make.

    However, all you Neocons who got us into this mess need to go to your respective corner and just shut up!

    "That's because neither Olby nor Milbank bothered to reference the President's interview today, that touched on these very topics."

    I'd hardly call a half-hour softball pitch-and-catch between President Bush and Brit Hume good journalism.

    Case in point - Hume asked a very specific question about hiow the Iraqi government would handle Maqtada al Sadr, but President Bush never mentions al Sadr by name and Hume never asks a follow-up.

    SENATE DEMOCRATS IGNORE BASE

    -- Armed Services Dems ready to approve Gates --

    WASHINGTON--Despite calls from the far left for immediate retreat from Iraq, Democrats on the Armed Services Committee seem ready to approve a new Secretary of Defense calling for an extended US presence in the region. Under rather tame questioning, Robert Gates stated he envisions “a dramatically smaller” number of United States troops [in Iraq], but an American presence would be required “for a long time.”

    Peace activist, Cindy Sheehan was not available for comment as she was preparing for her mock "war crimes trial" of the previous Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld. In related news, Michael Moore reportedly has plans for a new documentary entitled, "Mr. Kucinich...Road to The White House."


    TONY SNOW REITERATES WHITE HOUSE PROPAGANDA CANARD: "U.S. WINNING IN IRAQ"

    -- Nominee Gates Echoes Democrats: Iraq in Danger of Becoming Regional Conflagration --

    WASHINGTON -- Sounding more like a Democrat, and using words that opportunistic Republicans have labeled overly pessimistic -- if not cowardly and unpatriotic -- Secretary of Defense nominee Robert Gates told a Senate confirmation panel Tuesday that the U.S. is not winning the war in Iraq. Echoing Democratic opponents of the war, Gates added that if the situation in Iraq doesn't improve soon, it could expand into a "regional conflagration". Meanwhile, Presidential propagandist Tony Snow reassured reporters in today's press briefing that the White House stands by its claim that the U.S. is winning in Iraq and that opponents of the war are being overly pessimistic.


    WASHINGTON--Despite calls from the far left for immediate retreat from Iraq,

    yeah, you know ... far leftists, like Nebraska Republican Senator Chuck Hagel. that's a O'Liely talking point -- that only the far left want to withdraw from iraq. nonsense.

    "Hagel supported the 2002 resolution to authorize military action in Iraq, but he has emerged as a strong skeptic of the Bush administration's handling of the war. In his speech, he called for a regional security conference to help invest Iraq's neighbors in the effort to stabilize the country. At one point, while answering a question from the audience about Syria, Hagel suggested that the Middle East is worse off after the invasion because the administration failed to anticipate the consequences of removing Iraqi President Saddam Hussein."

    Mike,

    That's right....retreat into the disgustingly cynical "if you support/go serve argument." No sir, I do not plan on voluteering, but would gladly serve if drafted (which I support....the only thing Charlie Rangel and I agree on). Just like you could volunteer to serve (thank you), millions of eligable men have chosen not to serve their country in the past 30 years and still have a voice in our democracy. This is "an unearned, inalienable right" that veterens fought for, right?

    BTW....no Plasma TV (although I have asked Santa for one...I'll let you know)....I live in a small Cape on a small lot with my wife and son. I drive a 2002 Honda Civic/60K miles, work about 60 hours a week as a family doctor and have not been away for a vacation for 3 years. I live frugally, give to charity, serve in my church and volunteer in my community.

    I know hatred and evil when I read it and see it, and want my government to protect my family and strive for freedom around the world, for all people....any race, creed, whatever.

    I know I have it great in this country and thank God for it everyday.

    God Bless America!

    yo cee, you stupid shit.
    the grown-ups are talking about conflagration and torture and war crimes and 3,000 dead servicemen, and another 30,000 wounded, and unconstitutional harms against the republic ...

    and all you can manage to come up with is ... wait for it ...

    MACHIAVELLIAN DEMS SNUB BASE
    SENATE DEMOCRATS IGNORE BASE

    (oh, and your nifty piddling tax break of course)
    what a loser.
    just shows how screwed up your value system really is.

    Hey anon....show me where Hagel has called for,
    "immediate retreat from Iraq" like your friends Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan.....get a clue.

    Hey anon.....look at reality.....the Democrats are going to support continued war in Iraq...they are going to continue economic policies anathema to the socialists they say they represent....they are not going to impeach BushCo...They played the left for dupes....live with it.

    And until you decide to attack your 100 million fellow citizens who are out killing eachother in line for PS III, breathlessly waiting for the next episode of THE SOPRANOS and partaking of a pretty good football season....don't attack me...This is your America, anon. Self centered, selfish and narcissistic.

    Look in the mirror!

    "the grown-ups are talking about conflagration and torture and war crimes and 3,000 dead servicemen, and another 30,000 wounded, and unconstitutional harms against the republic"

    Please....enough demagoguery....you should be chaining yourself to the Air Transports leaving Dover AFB right now to stop the killing if you care so much about this immoral war....But no anon, you are sitting at your computer trying to debate your betters. Give it a rest!

    Cee:

    I'm 55, have already served in the Military, could not get in again even if I tried at my age, and I did not ever support this invasion at any time....in fact, I feared in early 2003 that we were about to make one of the biggest mistakes in history, and spoke out against it at the time. I am very sorry that I was probably right.

    I really mean it - I cannot see how you people can sit back and wildly cheer on these troops that are being killed and maimed every day and not feel any obligation yourself to serve. If you really are a doctor, your services would probably be appreciated over there.

    NOBODY on the left has argued the hatred does not exist. We just have a radically different idea about how it can best be confronted. We've tried it your way, and that clearly does not work...but it does tend to get a lot of young Americans killed, and has pretty much broken the US treasury.

    I just watched a segment on Hardball that showed clips of interviews with top FBI Officials who showed almost total ignorance about our enemy (in 2004, for crying out loud!).

    You fight your enemy using knowledge as well as power...in fact, the former may be more important than the latter.

    And another example of how sacrificial your fellow citizens are, Anon & Mike....guess what is the #1 visited blog site this year....

    PerezHilton.com was tops. The self-proclaimed "Hollywood's most-hated Web site" is all about celebrity gossip, rumor and innuendo.

    Not kos, not HuffPo, not even OW....Mmmmm.

    Also, the #1 searched "news story?" Not Iraq, but....

    The deaths of Steve Irwin and Anna Nicole Smith's son coming in first and second, respectively.

    I don't even know who these people are and have never visited PerezHilton.com?

    Do you guys?

    Congratulations Cee; We agree on something! Americans - in general - are ridiculously self - absorbed, and do not seem to really care about anything that is truely important.

    What an indictment of our own culture!

    JOESEPH LIEBERMAN VINDICATED

    --- Senate Democrats Pursue Bipartisanship

    WASHINGTON -- After a 24-0 vote in The Armed Servies Commitee, Robert Gates will likely win unanimous support from the full Senate by the end of the week. In a stunning blow to progressive demagogues, Democratic Senators sided with the recently discarded Senator from Connecticut, Joseph Lieberman, in voting for Dr. Gate's nomination. Said Lieberman after the vote, "This is the first step of many Republicans and Democrats will take together, hand in hand, shoulder to shoulder, to make our policy in Iraq work in the many, many, many, many years to come. I look forward in continuing to bring my collegues together for the good of our country!" Senator Ted Kennedy was unavailable for comment.