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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004

    December 6, 2006


    Host: Keith Olbermann


    • IRAQ STUDY GROUP: Richard Wolffe, Newsweek chief White House correspondent and MSNBC political analyst; Thomas Ricks, Washington Post military correspondent and author of "Fiasco"; Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.)
    • POPULARITY OF "A CHRISTMAS STORY": Brian Jones, watched "A Christmas Story" 300-400 times

    Olby sounded a bit sour delivering the famous opening spiel: the Baker report is "all things to all people", the White House is blaming the media again, James Kim found dead, and a kid will get his eye shot out. Well at least there will be one good segment.

    First up, the Fabulous Baker Boys Commission Report. A more superficial reportage of their findings could not be imagined. We were told that the recommendation are worthless "unless the President deigns to carry them out". KO's summary: we're not winning, Iraq is deteriorating, a slide toward chaos, stay the course is not viable...but he didn't mention that the FBBCR also seconded Bush's notion of stabilizing the Iraq government, and that it explicitly rejected the Murtha/Pelosi immediate withdrawal scheme. Cherry-picked clips from the news conference followed. A clip from "Mister" Bush was intro'd with Prof Olbermann claiming that he doesn't know the meaning of "bipartisan". And there was the obligatory footage of the tonsorially-enhanced David Gregory hectoring Tony Snow.

    The Wolffe Man was first up to scrutinize the FBBCR. He said the report will be shelved to gather dust, though there was little in it that was offensive to the White House, and negotiations with Iran or Syria are unlikely. Monkeymann expressed the theory that Gates will use the FBBCR as his "road map", but Wolffie expressed doubts. Nonetheless, he was great thanksed.

    To get an impartial analysis of the situation, Fat Ass Olbermann called in "statesman" Russ Feingold (D). This has to be a parody, right? Something like, oh, National Lampoon's Pravda Comes to Seacaucus? The string of Democrats, usually of the ultra variety, who appear on Countdown is becoming a sick joke. (And we have accordingly updated The List.) "Statesman" Feingold plopped into the Seat of Honor to spin the entire story as far left as possible. The FBBCR dared to note that failure in Iraq will embolden terrorists, and Olby was having none of that. The Statesman eagerly joined in, saying the FBBC was an example of right-wing bias because it didn't have any declared Iraq war opponents on it! KO delivered his usual piercing, analytical, challenging queries:

    Would you agree with this, the, the country's focus, the government's focus should be on getting us out, uh, as quickly as possible, and, er, is there anything in the report that, that, that, uh, hastens that?

    What will The Statesman say to that? Will he agree with getting out as quickly as possible? Man, that Krazy Keith sure knows how to make news with his interviews. The Statesman was great thanksed.


    After oddball it was The Return of Ricks, just 24 hours after Olbermann Watch embarrassed Krazy Keith into asking him back. The latest deaths in Iraq were characterized by Olby as the soldiers "paying the price" for Bush's execution of the war. TR said the FBBCR is "devasating" to the Bush administration, and KO followed up:

    What is the read of it going to be on the ground, um, by anybody in Iraq from the generals to the troops?

    Did you catch that? Edward R Olbermann specifically referring to the generals and the troops as two different entities. Obviously, he's still smarting from the November 2 smackdown. He went on to cite The Statesman's claim that the report was biased against the cut-and-run option, claiming that this was the option that "a lot of the troops would most like to see". A Kountdown Keith Klassic: Herr Olbermann as the voice of the troops, the same ones he demeans as stupid! Once again, TR brought some perspective to The Hour of Spin, noting that leaving advisors and trainers behind without combat forces to defend them is an extremely risky strategy.

    Is Keith "Man on Fan" Olbermann off his meds? His Olbsession has become so severe that he's actually teasing the upcoming Media Matters Minute by telling the audience ahead of time that he's naming Mr Bill "worst person". He can't even hold out until the segment airs? His O'Reilly jones is worse than we thought.

    There was some taped reportage from NBC about James Kim (and Olby gave the unspooling tape great thanks), followed by O.J. Simpson and Mary Cheney. A segment on the house from A Christmas Story was #1 (marred only by KO's insistence on showing off his knowledge by referencing all sorts of tangential movie trivia, and his stumbling, stammering delivery--in evidence throughout tonight's Hour of Spin). In the Media Matters Minute, the discredited sports guy once again attacked Bill O'Reilly (#141 if you're counting). Olby hasn't apologized for his earlier smear of Mr Bill, so what's another?


    Quiescent canines: Krazy Keith made a big deal about The Flying Imams, without of course reporting any of the subsequent information that came out. So it's no surprise that when three separate investigations found that the airline acted properly in removing them from the plane, that news is spiked on Countdown. The infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann was delighted to give Al Gore a fawning interview, not to mention running free ads for his movie, because he liked the global warming message. But on OlbyPlanet, news is not news if Herr Olbermann disagrees with it. So today's Senate testimony by distinguished experts about how the media have misrepresented the science of climate change was handled as all such inconvenient truths are on The Hour of Spin: it was ignored. Finally, we would be most remiss if we didn't point out that KO still refuses to tell his viewers how Jack Abramoff has pointed the finger of corruption at none other than Sen Harry Reid.


    Olbermann's book The book that bears Olberman's name is down to #426 at amazon, while Mr Bill's "Culture Warrior" is up at #14. The OlbyTome continues to struggle at Barnes & Noble where it is a disappointing #1,614, but O'Reilly's book is #17. And Mr Bill's literary triumph is still #3 on the New York Times Best Sellers list. There's a reason Olby didn't do any crowing about Tuesday night's ratings. Using industry-approved numbers, not the phony inflated ones KO likes to throw around, he sunk to last place--fifth out of five--in viewers. Behind Nancy Grace and Paula Zahn. Way behind a rerun of Deal or No Deal. And way, way behind The Factor. His only consolation was a weak third place in the critical, beloved, all-important, coveted "key demo". Tonight's MisterMeter reading: 2 [LOW]

    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (132) | | View blog reactions


    Thomas Ricks is back. I wonder if he will refute the Olbyspin or if he got the speech that disagreement is verboten by Herr Olbermann.

    Olby was back in the ratings basement last night. What a shocker!

    Olby in the toilet where he belongs.

    crappy ratings and still you rightwingers obsess over the only liberal in the mass media... I guess we should all just watch Faux.

    It appears that everyone else is, O'Lielly. I am so happy to know that Dan Abrams has nothing to do with the network's primetime ratings disaster. Whew! I'm glad Olby set the record straight on that.

    Didn't TVN just run a breathless article yesterday about how CNN should be worried?

    False alarm, apparently.

    olby the only liberal in the mass media???
    i gues you libs are blind, dumb and can't read either. or maybe it is that you are so clouded by your liberal ideology you are immune to the stench of liberalism in the newspapers, CNN, NBC, et al.
    I'll bet you even think Rosie O'donell is normal too.

    Funny, Olbermann still insists he's not biased. But it's good to see that you Olbyloons now acknowledge and embrace his bias, even if he's still trying to pawn himself off in the media as not being biased.

    And we see he just can't get over Puff, the Magic Dragon. Olby, did you lie to GQ? I think so.

    Any more comments about Thomas Ricks being invited back. It seems a lot of you Olby haters said it wasn't going to happen.

    Olby didn't try to compare Dick Cheney to Spiro Agnew again. Maybe Olby has learned his lesson in dealing with Ricks. No stupid jokes and Ricks won't snap at him.

    Olby in fifth place? Must be part of that upward trend that cannot be stopped...

    All I know is when I hear the words "Blue Ribbon Panel". It's time for somebody to bend over and grab their ankles.

    I was watching this dopey press dog and pony show. All I heard was more of the same. But this one line did keep running through my head over and over. (The fix is in.)

    Could somebody please explain to me what Vernon Jordon was doing on this panel? Clinton didn't need to get out of a jam.

    I think I have it figured out why Olby can go from 2nd one night to dead last the next? Since the bulk of these viewers come from the old commie block on the upper west side of Manhattan. They have a problem who they want to watch at night. Dorothy (Zhan), or Toto (Olby). Or would that be Dodo? Since he might be extinct soon from the world of t.v..

    The only liberal?? What cable company does O'not subscribe to?

    It's easy to tell the ones who probably haven't even graduated from high school...for one thing, they love to use silly words like 'commie'.

    Did anyone notice that Olby interviewed the Senator with the highest personal integrity of anyone else in he US Senate tonight, bar none....Russ Feingold?

    It's a shame Senator Feingold can't play the money game necessary to run for president!

    "the Senator with the highest personal integrity of anyone else in he US Senate "

    The co-author of that Orwellian, Nixonian, fascist suppression of dissent called Campaign Finance Reform?

    We elect Feingold and America as we know it will end.

    As KO would put it.

    To the mental midgets,
    How is criticism of Bush's Iraq War policy or calling for a drastic change liberal? Pat Buchanan, William Kristol, Francis Fukuyama, Richard Viguerie, William Buckley, Richard Perle, Ken Adelman, and many other conservatives have done just that. Maybe all that criticizing Bush means is that you have a brain and can think for yourself. Hell, even Limpbaugh claimed relief that he didn't have to carry water anymore for Republicans who didn't deserve it.

    Oh gee Mike is that the best you can come up with? If so, my work is done and I'm hitting the showers early. I took you out faster than The Jets took out the Packers this past Sunday at Lambeau.

    By the way I don't have to prove anything about my education to you.

    I not so insecure that I have to come on here and tell people my backround. Like some people do. And even maybe, not ever saying it's you. Possibly fudging or completely fabricate one's backround to advance an agenda.

    I'm puck, I come on here, make my comments, maybe stay, maybe leave. The only thing I've ever stated about myself is I'm a member of The Libertarian Party. Do you know what the Libertarian Party is Mike? Did they teach you in school that there is more than one political party in the U.S.? Or was you're teacher too busy teaching you how "Captain Planet" was saving the world from the "Evil Capitalist Pollution Spewing Republicans"?

    Ya know Mike. I read all you're should've, could've, would've talk about THE WAR. And you know what it all adds up to me as. Talking about the barn door after the horse left. It's December 6 2006. What are we going to about today!!!!!!!!!!!

    It doesn't take much guts to be a Monday Morning Quarterback.

    And it doesn't take any brains to question ones use of the word Commie!!

    By the way why did the West Side of Manhattan comment trip you're trigger tonight? Was I hitting a little too close to home?

    Tell us Mike. What inhabits the upper West Side of Manhattan? Jaovah's Witness? Far Right Christians? Ku Klux Klan? Social Progressives?

    Watch who you're calling a mental midget, Colbert. I don't see any posts that says criticizing the Iraq War makes you a liberal. Clean out your crack pipe occasionally. You're hallucinating again.

    There's plenty to criticize about it. The first part of the mission was masterfully done. They overthrew the government, took out Saddam and put him on trial. The aftermath was poorly done.

    Most of the conservatives you mentioned want MORE troops in there. Would you favor that?

    Hey Bigred

    I apolgize for the name escapes me at the moment. But there is some Nancy Pelosi appointee that wants around 20,000 more troops sent over. Gee wizz! What happen to cut and run?

    Yes Puck, I know what a Libertarian is, and using the word 'commie' DOES makes you sound like a mental midget every time you do it. Its just a fact.

    You call it "Monday morning quarterbacking". I call it trying to make sure the same idiots who made the disastrous decisions don't get to keep on making MORE critical decisions! That is always the first step to solving a screw up at any level.

    Finally, I don't know a damned thing about the "West side of Manhattan", or who lives there.

    Olby's ratings are in the fruit cellar.
    Funny, how the Chiron Guy does not put his ignominious defeats in graphic form.

    One more night of ratings like that and there will be a special comment before the week is out.

    If Keith is the only liberal in the media then Kobe Bryant is the only African American in the NBA. It was simply amazing to see Keith bash the Iraqi Study Group Report as being too bias towards the White House, despite the fact that most of the members on that commission are Democrats.

    every time he does a special comment, he burns a dilithium crystal in his brain.

    Yeah, Reyes, the new Dem chair of the House Intelligence Committee mentioned he wants more troops. This, however, will not jibe with Pelosi and the rest of the liberal bastion and certainly will not receive mention by Olbermoron.

    Instead, he brings in the most liberal member of the Senate who demands we pull all the troops out now.. consequences be damned. The consequences, by the way, would be dire and The Iraq Study Group is against quick withdrawal. I doubt KO would ever bother to mention that either.

    Olbermann just spews Democratic talking points. He never saya an opinion that's different from the dems. He's just the Rush Limbaugh of the Left. A partisan hack, not a newsman!

    Olbermann just spews Democratic talking points. He never saya an opinion that's different from the dems. He's just the Rush Limbaugh of the Left. A partisan hack, not a newsman!

    Olbermann just spews Democratic talking points. He never saya an opinion that's different from the dems. He's just the Rush Limbaugh of the Left. A partisan hack, not a newsman!

    And the sky is blue. What is the point of this? Apparantly the two party system is one party too much for most of the Olby haters here. Its sad seeing people blinded by this left right insanity, hoping for low ratings to validate their beliefs.

    "Finally, we would be most remiss if we didn't point out that KO still refuses to tell his viewers how Jack Abramoff has pointed the finger of corruption at none other than Sen Harry Reid."

    *checks to see Johnny still flogging a dead horse*

    And you say OLBERMANN is the one with an obsession?

    But the point is that Olbermann is still trying to maintain he isn't a liberal and he isn't biased. He's still trying to present himself as a "straight down the middle" journalist when he's anything but. His fans arguments seem to be, "Let us have one liberal in the media", thereby confirming the fact that he is in fact a liberal. When Olbermann comes clean and admits he's a liberal and that he is biased and that he runs an opinion show, not a news show, I'll stop criticizing him.

    calling sombody a commie is so pase, so 1960's . Today we call them "progressives" or liberals.
    he communists kenw back in the 60's they could not defeat America militarily so they figured the best way to defeat the evil Americans was from within. Ruin the church, the family and the soci-economic structure using the univerisites, the press and the power of government itself to defeat the evil capitalist system.
    Thus today we have nutjobs like olbermann decrying McCarthy (who was right), openly socialist and communists,ooops (ahem) "progresive" politicos and college professors who istill that good ol white guilt,anti-Americanism and self loathing that defines liberlism and voila! we have today's democratic party!
    The cold war did not neccessarily end with the destruction of the Berlin wall and subsequent internal reforms in Russia . The communist party leaders just imported their thinking to the American left.
    communism is such and ugly word with so many evil conotations, the same goes with the word "liberal" . hey why not re-market it under a new name. a more flowery happy smiley face name? Lets' call it "progressive"!!
    OK you enlightened well educated (aka brainwashed) leftists we will henceforth refer to you all as (wink wink)progressives but we will still all really know what in truth you are.
    are you happy now?


    Keith has said it many times on Dan's radio show that people accusing him of being a liberal, points a gun to his head to vote for Hillary Clinton. Further, he said he just wants to be politically correct not being biased. He also has said on Jay Leno show that his show is a newscast. If you want proof, I have tapes.


    If you really believe McCarthy was right, then you don't believe in America or freedom. In fact, it would be fair to label you a Nazi.

    But thank you for confirming that many on the far right would love to bring back McCarthyism today. Until now, I only suspected that was the case.

    To Kurt Kissel:

    GREAT post above. No truer words have ever been written!

    Why would I want proof of what I already know? He claims he isn't a liberal but the Olbyloons insist he is and that it's okay to have a liberal in the media because of the bias they perceive at Fox News.

    So here's the problem as I see it. The liberal media acknowledges Keith is a liberal. The mainstream media acknowledges his show has a liberal bent. His fans acknowledge and embrace him as a liberal. So why is Keith still trying to claim he's not?

    Secondly, he's still telling everyone in sight that his is a NEWS show, not an opinion show. So why is he offering up opinions and special comments and one-sided stories that don't explore both sides of an issue? He should relabel the show as commentary.

    if he admits he's a liberal and admits he's not running a news show but an opinion show, then I wouldn't have an argument with him. But as it is right now, he's trying to sell himself as unbiased and the show as a straight news show. He can't have it both ways.


    If we were not mired an elective war started and botched by so called Conservatives....and.....if we did not have a president tampering with the Constitution and the Geneva Convention, who are also so called conservatives, I would not have a clue whether Olbermann was a Liberal or a Conservative.

    I have not seen him make the traditional Liberal arguements concerning social issues such as abortion or a hundred other issues. The fact that this war has been mostly embraced by the right and rejected by the left seems to be more happenstance than anything else.

    Elective, pre-emptive war is NOT a Conservative principal, and neither is modifying cherished documents that guarantee decency, Habeas Corpus, freedom, and privacy.....never has been, never will be.

    Yet those seem to be the very things that the right seem to be using to label Olbermann as a "Liberal".

    Nice try Mike but here are the facts, instead of the spin you're trying to create here. He never has an opposing viewpoint on his show. The guests on his show tilt overwhelming to the left. If he is running a straight-up and down news show as you and he continue to insist, why are there never anyone on his show who doesn't parrot the liberal party line? His headlines come straight from sites like Daily Kos and Democratic Underground and even more extreme leftist blogs. You call that factual news reporting? If so, no wonder you're so easily satisfied and beguiled by Olbermann.

    The other night old Obly was lamenting on how his ratings where increasing in the 7:45 – 8:00 time frame. I must confess I havent been watching must of Obly lately but I do occasionally turn it over there to hear his little speech dealie. Now I must also say that I use to turn the station over to Jerry Springer every once in a while….why you might ask… Watching a little Jerry always seem to boost my self a steam a little. Just like watching Oblys little speech daily reaffirms to me that Im not as crazy as that S.O.B.

    Get it Obly…people turn over to watch the circus!

    Ok, Mike. Explain, exactly, how Bush is "tampering with the Constitution and the Geneva convention". Nowhere does the Geneva Convention apply to terrorists. The idiots in Iraq who are blowing people up do not fight for any recognized state, they do not where uniforms, and they freely kill as many innocent civilians as possible. The Geneva Convention applies to armies, in uniform, representing a country. And the Geneva Convention is expressly against killing civilians intentionally.

    Secondly, no American citizen has lost the right to Habeas Corpus, despite what your hero Olbermoron might say.

    I saw the piece the other day trying to claim that Jose Padilla was being treated inhumanly as he was moved from one cell to another. Have these people never watched any of the MSNBC doc blocks on Prison life? Detention Centers and prisons in this country use those very same transfer techniques every single day but all of a sudden we're trampling on a terrorist's "rights" by doing the very same thing? So why is no one having a shit fit over prisoner rights?


    I am NOT argueing that KO has a "straight up news show"! Thats not what I said at all. I have never argued that his show is that. However, I think we would all benefit if we took the time to watch and listen to all the different "opinion" shows", and not just "straight up news shows".

    My point was that the only things he is speaking out against are NOT really Liberal/Conservative issues in the traditional meaning of those words. Therefore, I really can't say for certian that KO is, in fact, a Liberal.

    Olbermann may not be a liberal but he sure hates any conservative ideas.

    "Detention Centers and prisons in this country use those very same transfer techniques every single day but all of a sudden we're trampling on a terrorist's "rights" by doing the very same thing?"

    Really? Here, let me explain EXACTLY what they did to Padilla:

    Several guards in camouflage and riot gear approached his cell. They unlocked a rectangular panel at the bottom of the door and Mr. Padilla’s bare feet slid through. As one guard held down a foot with his boot, the others shackled Mr. Padilla’s legs. Next, his hands emerged through another hole to be manacled.

    Wordlessly, the guards chained Mr. Padilla’s cuffed hands to a metal belt. Noise-blocking headphones were placed over his ears and blacked-out goggles over his eyes. Then the guards, whose faces were hidden behind plastic visors, took him to the prison dentist.

    Now tell me Brandon, does ANY PRISON ANYWHERE in this country do this for a trip WITHIN THE PRISON WALLS? What noble purpose requires them to effectively BLIND and DEAFEN Mr. Padilla?

    And let me remind you that Mr. Padilla has not beeen CONVICTED of ANYTHING yet. He has merely been CHARGED, and even the (Republican) federal judge trying the case has said the government;s case is weak.


    The mistake you are making is in ASSUMING that these people are in fact terrorists just because our government SAYS they are. The truth is, we really don't know for certain!

    The danger is when we create a system in which the government could call ANYONE a terrorist or an "enemy combatant", including you or me, and everyone one else would just assume that it must be true just because they said it was. Every despot who ever lived used the pretext that any politcal enemy they had arrested was an "enemy of the people".

    THOSE are the kind of protections that are being tampered with, and it is beyond me why more Americans are not alarmed about it.

    Our system is not supposed to be based on having blind trust that our government is always doing the right thing. It is our responsibility as citizens to make certain that they are, and that is where both the media and the people are, for the most part, letting us down.

    I believe it was Jefferson who said "those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither". That statement is as true today as it ever was.

    Watch the MSNBC doc-blocks. I saw a very similar thing being done in the LA County prison system. That's my point. And like Padilla, those very same prisoners were often just being detained on charges, not actually convicted yet of them but they had shown a tendency to violence which would endanger the lives of their guards so such precautions are taken.

    All you ever wanted to know about SuperMax detention facilities. Hint: they aren't country clubs.

    Padilla has been held for THREE YEARS in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT. He has NO CONTACT with the outside world save for his jailers and his attorneys. He spends 23 hours a day in a cell slightly larger than a walk-in closet. He has been described BY THE PEOPLE DETAINING HIM as being "broken" and "a piece of furntiure".

    Do you really think a person subjected to this is REALLY so violent as to require the "precautions" taken? We don't even do this to the guys we hold in the "Supermax" facilities or Federal Death Row.

    People held in Supermax seldom get more than one hour of day outside of their jail cell if they get even that much. I'm not in control of the prison system or how Padilla is being treated. But Supermax exists, those practices are commonplace, and other prisoners housed in these types of facilities are subjected to the same treatment he has been. It's standard Supermax, high security level business as usual and goes on in jails and prisons across this country every single day.

    I'm sorry, but I think you are full of shit.

    There is NO RATIONAL PURPOSE for placing black-out goggles and noise-cancelling earphones on Mr. Padilla other than to continue to "de-humanize" him. They already had him shackled, leg-cuffed and waist-cuffed. He was being escorted by guards in riot armor and wearing full-face helmets. What the hell was he gonna do that would require such treatment?

    Listen Mr/s Hysterical Anonymous: DO A GOOGLE SEARCH on the term "SuperMax" prisons. You'll find all sorts of articles critical of those practices but the important thing you will find is that they are commonplace and routine inside American prisons. That's the entire idea behind them.

    Here, since you're obviously not too bright or at least not quick on the uptake and probably lazy to boot, here's the link to the google search performing a search for supermax prisons:

    Please educate yourself before posting inane claims that this don't exist in America and that they are somehow unique to Padilla when they aren't.

    Anon said: "What the hell was he gonna do that would require such treatment?"

    What was he gonna do?

    He was trying to infiltrate the US covertly for the al Qaeda terrorist network. He flew to the United States on an al Qaeda scouting mission to detonate a radioactive "dirty bomb" -- a conventional bomb laced with radioactive material, in the United States.

    No biggie tho... right?

    "He was trying to infiltrate the US covertly for the al Qaeda terrorist network."

    Infiltrate? He's a United States Citizen.

    "He flew to the United States on an al Qaeda scouting mission to detonate a radioactive "dirty bomb" -- a conventional bomb laced with radioactive material, in the United States. "

    Stop listening to that looped tape of John Ashcroft and try learning some FACTS, nimrod.

    NONE of those allegations are even part of the charges filed against him. In fact, the most serious conspiracy charge alleged against Mr. Padilla was DISMISSED by the judge for lack of evidence. And the U.S. Government stopped calling him a "dirty bomber" in 2004. The only people continuing to use that description are conservative columnists.

    The only charges he is facing are helping to funnel money to "terror-connected" groups. And that case has been criticized by the judge as "thin on facts". It's entirely possible that Padilla will get minimal jail time or be acquited completely.

    And Brandon, you obviously think Padilla deserves this because he is an "evil man" as defined by the President. So who gives a f--- if he's locked in a 9x7 cell for over 1,000 days, 23 hours a day, and for most of that period completely isolated from EVERYONE (even his own lawyers)? He's evil. He deserves it. That kind of thinking is horrific.

    Anonymous- is he innocent?
    UNDISPUTED FACT he spent time in al Qaeda camps.
    What he did there you can dispute you think it was for the tanning and margaritas? Keep your liberal blog BS to yourself when you are defending terrorists. It makes you look anti-american.

    by the way- Captured terrorist Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, gave Padilla's name during questioning. Any american that hung with that a--hole deserves to lose his rights.

    Anon: "The only charges he is facing are helping to funnel money to 'terror-connected' groups."

    Er, Jose Padilla has been charged with membership in a North American terrorist support cell and with conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim. Padilla was charged with three counts -- conspiracy to murder U.S. nationals, conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists and providing material support to terrorists. Padilla and four others were charged with "conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim persons in a foreign country ... for the purpose of opposing existing governments and civilian factions and establishing Islamic states under Sharia (Islamic law), and material support for terrorism," according to the indictment.


    By the way, thanks for the namecalling in your previous post. It so helps your "arguments".


    America was built on principal that all human beings have basic dignity and should be treated with dignity. The truth is you have no CLUE what he is guilty of or whether he is guilty. The fact that he MIGHT be a Terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer doesn't change that.

    America is about being BETTER than the enemy. We are supposed to be a shining beacon to the world, and that is where we have failed miserably under this so called 'leadership'. If we sink to their level, we are no longer the 'good'guys. Its that simple.

    If you don't accept our basic bedrock principals of basic human dignity and the presumption of innocense, than I say YOU are the one who is Anti - American!

    My only question is why Anonymous is so concerned over a terrorist suspect and s/he isn't bemoaning the similar fates of prisoners all across the United States. I guess as non-terrorists they aren't supposed to have any rights but a terrorist of course, should be treated like Royalty.

    Regarding the dismissed charges...


    Federal prosecutors have asked an appeals court to reinstate a key terrorism charge against an alleged Al Qaeda operative, Jose Padilla, contending a judge erred in finding that it duplicated other counts in the same indictment.

    Padilla and two co-defendants are charged with being part of a North American support cell that provided money, supplies, and recruits to Islamic extremists worldwide. Padilla, an American citizen, was held for 3 1/2 years without charge as an "enemy combatant," originally accused of plotting to detonate a radioactive "dirty bomb" in an American city.

    The pleading filed with the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals late Monday argues that the charge dismissed by U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke is a distinct offense in the case.

    Judge Cooke ruled in August that the first count of the indictment against Padilla and two others — charging a conspiracy to "murder, kidnap, and maim persons in a foreign country" — was essentially the same as two other terrorism support counts. The dismissed charge is the only one in the case that carries a potential life prison sentence.

    My only question is why Anonymous is so concerned over a terrorist suspect and s/he isn't bemoaning the similar fates of prisoners all across the United States. I guess as non-terrorists they aren't supposed to have any rights but a terrorist of course, should be treated like Royalty.

    Brandon, two wrongs don't make a right!

    Good thing Mike isn't running the country. Padilla would be in Vegas kickin' it at Tao and Olbermann would be Secretary of State (first stops, Iran, North Korea and Chappaqua).

    Let's review: First of all anonymous poster claims that the conditions that Padilla is being held under are unique in the American prison system. They aren't. Then Anonymous tried to deny the existence of Supermax prisons in the US and of what are standard practices in those prisons all across this country. Now they want me to feel sympathy for an alleged terrorist when said terrorist is being treated just as other suspects for other non-terrorist related crimes are being treated all across this country? Sorry. Can't do it. And for the record, I'm not in charge of the way prisoners in this country are treated or of what common practices are within the walls of super-maximum security facilities. It's just the way that it is. Why should Padilla be treated any better exactly?

    from Mike: "...two wrongs don't make a right!"

    Mike, a stitch in time saves nine! :-)

    You guys get more and more ridiculous everyday. Give it up!

    Yes Lilly, I agree denying the existence of Supermaximum prisons in this country and what are common practices for treating supermax prisons is indeed, the definition of ridiculous. Just as wanting someone to feel sympathy for a terrorist suspect. What's next: we build a memorial honoring the memory of the terrorists who hijacked those planes on 9/11? Oh, right. Go to the "official" Countdown message board at and see all the conspiracy theorists there who deny that 9/11 ever happened. That's the mentality of the Olbermann-fanatics.

    Hey Redstate:

    Your two assumptions that you made about me if I were running the country were silly and wrong....BUT....we sure wouldn't be stuck in a quagmire in Iraq right now!

    Lily's right... on second thought, I'm going to give it up! I will become a certified Olbyfan. I've seen the light!


    I guess you can't get 'ridiculous' if you don't say anything, can you?

    Anon- you feel we should give civil liberties to Padilla? He is scum... Locking up scum doesn't make the US a worse country. But you liberals keeping beating the drum about how Bush has ruined our country. Our moral standing is strong. Do you believe our declining standing in the UN is a good indicator of our declining moral authority? The same UN that applauded Chavez as he blasted our country. The same UN that looks the other way while the killing continues throughout Africa. The same UN that blocks all our efforts to stop Iran from acquiring nukes. The world is in a quick spiral, and it takes progressive leadership to protect us from the evils of the world. And locking up terrorists protects my family which is our government's prime objective. Here's a tip. Stay out of al queda training camps and you'll definitely avoid the terrorist detention centers.

    You know, this is what's wrong with you people. I'm NOT saying Mr. Padilla is innocent. I'm just saying that we treat him like a DECENT HUMAN BEING.

    You lock a man in a windowless 9x7 cell with NO human contact (except when the guard slides his food through a slot in the door), NO sense of time, take away his mattress so he is forced to sleep on a steel slab, blast him with noise and light at random times to prevent him from sleeping, deny him access to counsel, deny him ANY sense of what day it is (let alone what is happening outside), manipulate the environment in his cell to make it unbearbly hot or freezing cold, and then you LEAVE HIM THERE for 3 years because "he's a terrorist".

    This isn't American justice. This is a Soviet gulag. Even the detainees at Guantanamo are treated better, and most of them are not United States citizens like Mr. Padilla.

    When you just shrug or say that his treatment is no different than what other prisoners get, I say you are a liar. Prisoners (even the ones at Supermax facilities) are allowed access to their attorneys, are allowed a small window to see the time of day or the season of the year, are allowed to sleep and are not subjected to random environmental changes based on the whim of the jailer.

    The fact that you even TRY to make the comparison makes me wonder what the hell you've been smoking.

    beson said: "Here's a tip. Stay out of al queda training camps and you'll definitely avoid the terrorist detention centers."

    LOL... reading that I was reminded of a line from the Steve Martin movie 'The Jerk'. (modified slightly ;-))

    Navin R. Johnson: "Lord loves a workin' man; don't trust whitey; see a doctor and get rid of it; stay out of al queda training camps and avoid terrorist detention centers."

    He hates these cans!

    "He is scum... Locking up scum doesn't make the US a worse country."

    Funny, I thought it was "innocent until proven guilty". Apparently to you it's "guilty because the government says so".

    "And locking up terrorists protects my family which is our government's prime objective."

    As someone more eloquent than me said:

    "To retort that this raw power is necessary to 'protect Americans' is to assume that there is nothing in being a citizen of this nation for any of us beyond the mere fact of being alive. My own judgment is that this is not what the signers of the Declaration of Independence had in mind when they pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to the task of creating the United States of America and it horrifies me that those who have taken oaths to defend the Constitution view their fellow citizens as having no greater aspirations as Americans than craven physical safety.

    If they are right and I am wrong then being American is little more than being situated in a certain place on the globe with no claim to moral authority beyond what can be enforced through bullets and bombs. Then we are little more than a street gang with assertions of control over our turf."

    Great vocab word of the day:


    "...that news is spiked on Countdown."

    Which doesn't mean dancing in the endzone.

    GJ, $.

    Quagmire, Mike? Are we losing hundreds of troops a day like we did in Vietnam?

    We haven't been attacked in 5 1/2 years, and I'm certain that's because of tremendous counter-terroism work on our part (as well as the Brits) and the fact that Al-Qaeda is directing most of its resources to Iraq.

    But again, this site is about Olby. I'm surprised this site didn't mention his pathetic attack on Mary Cheney yesterday. Gee, if Dick and the conservatives are such homophobic hate-mongers, why hasn't his lesbian daughter denounced him/them yet?

    As far as Olby not being liberal- Saw a piece yesterday on Scarborough on MSNBC, about Fox News whining about being attacked. A lefty pundit said that there really aren't any liberal opinion shows other than Keith Olbermann's. Scarborough has drank the koolaid- his response (something like) "Actually Keith isn't liberal, he is not affiliated with any party" I lost all respect for Scarborough. I wish he would quit that whacko left wing news channel, and find greener pastures.

    I actually have more respect for Olbermann and his lunatic rantings and view than I do for Scarborough.

    "It's a shame Senator Feingold can't play the money game necessary to run for president!"

    Maybe Feingold is a pragmatist and realizes that a Jew,black ( sorry Barack) or a woman can never be elected president in 2008 in these here racist United States.
    If any of the above was a sensational candidate, red state America would never vote for him or her.
    Sad but true.

    bob's comment reflects how leftist's negatively view our country. Sad but true.

    "Maybe Feingold is a pragmatist and realizes that a Jew,black ( sorry Barack) or a woman can never be elected president in 2008 in these here racist United States."

    Get off my side, please. You make my side look stupid.

    "bob's comment reflects how leftist's negatively view our country."

    Are you kidding me?
    Do you really think most red states would vote for a jew,black or woman?

    What kind of rose colored world are you living in?

    Red State Women

    LA - Kathleen Blanco (D)
    AZ - Janet Napolitano (D) (not sure if AZ is "red")
    AR - U.S. Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D)
    LA U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu (D)
    NC U.S. Sen. Elizabeth Dole (R)
    TX U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R)

    Jewish Republican Senators

    Norm Coleman of Minnesota
    Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania

    Well yes, they would Bob. JC Watts was a GOP congressman for Oklahoma for a long time, Kay Bailey-Hutchenson and Ann Richards were some of the most popular politicians in the history of Texas, and Carl Levin (Michigan), Arlen Specter (Pennsylvania), and Norm Coleman (Minn) are all Jewish politicos in states that normally lean red.

    Take your anti-semitic, misogynist, racist agenda elsewhere. You make me sick.

    You really are pretty stupid or naive Mr Red State.
    Voting for a Congress is totally different than voting for a president.
    YOU elected the most incompetent president in our lifetime. I would love to see a qualified minority become president...but it ain't going to happen anytime soon.
    I'd love to be wrong about this but I'm not.
    If you disagree than you are very insulated where you live or your views of this country.

    "Take your anti-semitic, misogynist, racist agenda elsewhere. You make me sick."

    I'm none of those things.
    This is a very racist society we live in.
    And the most racist parts of this country are DEFINITELY the red states.

    That's not even debatable !! !!!


    Quit drinking the cool aid. The average losses in Vietnam during were little more than, about 100 per WEEK, not day! And...there were approximately 500,000 stationed there, not 140,000. You figure out the comparative ratios.

    5 years since an attack has NOTHING to do with Iraq...that is the absolute stupidest talking point your side ever sold!

    Time for Olbyloons around the world to celebrate (listen up Kissel, Bob, JT, Colbert, and Mike)

    Dennis Kucinich fans might be sleepless with anticipation over a possible presidential run, but he's going to make them wait. The Cleveland congressman just released this statement:

    "There is much speculation and rumors about my plans for 2008. Shortly, I
    will make my intentions known."

    You would think after almost 6 years of failures of the Republican Congress and this president, the right wing cabal would catch a clue or at least have some integrity . Bush's disaster in Iraq is only the tip of the iceberg. With their backward policies on science,their refusals to investigate the war profiteering, the ever mounting debt our children will be burdened with,the suspension of habeas corpus and other Constitutional rights going out the window etc etc. , this is truly a dark time for our country.

    When one of the leading conservative voices , Andrew Sullivan cried out once on live TV, " The Republicans have got to be stopped", it was obvious not only the left and center were alert to this catastrophe.

    Thank God the people of this country spoke and voted the Republicans out of office.

    But what about the remaining right wingers who continue to put party over country?
    When will they realize the error and folly of their ways ?
    How many more right wing politicians, statemen, bloggers, newsmen and others that lean right have to come out and say ENOUGH ALREADY, before the rest catch on ?

    I guess the ones that put party over country, like the ones here at OW aren't going to admit they've been wrong or are going to wise up .Maybe it's ego. Maybe it's just plain stubbornness. But either way,they appear to have no trouble going down with their ship.

    Again Mr./Mrs/Ms. Anonymous: You haven't done your research on Supermax facilities and practices therein have you? Of course not, that would involve looking up information contrary to your mind set. Anyway, the TRUTH is that he is receiving the exact same treatment some other supermax detainees receive. Most facilitis use a classification system which varies the freedoms their detainees have, for example, from Level One to Level Four. I assure you that there are indeed quite a few individuals in this country who have received exactly the same treatment that Padilla has, which you could easily find out if only you did your research.

    "I assure you that there are indeed quite a few individuals in this country who have received exactly the same treatment that Padilla has, which you could easily find out if only you did your research."

    I have done my research. Even in Supermax facilities, prisoners have the right to see their attorney, are provided with a sleeping mattress, are not bombarded with sound and light to keep them awake, are provided some way of knowing what time it is, are allowed some contact with the outside world (either by a radio or small television that broadcasts limited programming).

    That still does not explain the use of black-out goggles and noise-cancelling headphones, which ARE NOT USED on typical prisoners (not even Oklahoma City Bomber Timothy McVeigh was subjected to this type of treatment).

    I have read the papers you cite. They don't support your argument.

    5 years since an attack has NOTHING to do with Iraq...that is the absolute stupidest talking point your side ever sold!

    Posted by: Mike at December 7, 2006 05:04 PM

    When Pearl Harbor was attacked the USA went to war in Europe. Was that also misguided??

    Bob said "When one of the leading conservative voices , Andrew Sullivan..."

    LOL Hahahaha... Andrew Sullivan, a conservative... Bob, that was a good one!

    Andy's a conservative like Democrat Zell Miller is a liberal.

    Andrew Sullivan is and always has been a conservative.

    I guess anyone that shows the least bit of common sense with the failed Republican agenda is a liberal to you.Anything left of Attila the Hun is a dreaded liberal.

    You right wingers are so far removed from reality that you've become a complete joke.

    Since Bush has abandoned the tenets of conservative policies like fiscal responsibility and the government staying out of the people's lives, John can't even remember what a conservative really is.

    I understand John.

    "when Pearl Harbor was attacked the USA went to war in Europe. Was that also misguided??", but invading Iraq because of 911 sure as hell was!!!!

    You really do have to be high on something to see any kind of an analogy comparing today's situation and WWII.

    How right you are Bob. So many of today's right wingers don't have a clue as what what really being a conservative is all about.

    I guess only Olbermann approved analogies can be made about the Iraq war.

    "I guess only Olbermann approved analogies can be made about the Iraq war"

    Duh, no again! You see, only the right wingers have an army of Ditto Heads. Center to left people think for themselves.

    "I guess only Olbermann approved analogies can be made about the Iraq war"

    Duh, no again! You see, only the right wingers have an army of Ditto Heads. Center to left people think for themselves.

    LOL, Bob. Find me one leading conservative writer, columnist, blogger who says Andy is a conservative. (for every one you think you might find I'll list 20 that disagree). If Andy is a conservative, then the word has lost any real meaning.

    If Andy is a conservative, then what would you label the vast universe of officials, commentators, columnists that used to be labeled conservative??

    Bob and Mike... substituting ad hominem attacks and personal insults for rational thought doesn't make you right, but it does qualify you to be an Olbyloon! (A badge I'm sure you proudly wear!)

    russert on hardball...pass the barf bag

    Geez Mike, do you think if you keep posting twice that your point will be more forceful?

    As for Vietnam losses vs. Iraq, it's an average of 350 per week for Vietnam vs. 12 per week in Iraq (look it up if you must). Even if Vietnam had higher troop levels, the numbers aren't even remotely close, and therefore Iraq cannot be called a quagmire for the U.S....although people like you are always none too pleased everytime a U.S. troop fatality rate hits a new landmark.


    by historical standards, the war has been a success. america has turned into a bunch of leftist pussies.

    Geez RedState, I posted twice because I got a message after the first one saying it didn't have a problem with that! Can you show me where I posted twice any other time today?

    I don't have to look it up, I am 55 and was in the Military at that time. The "average" in Iraq has been much higher than 12 recently.

    You think it can't be called a quagmire because "the numbers aren't remotely close? Wow, people like you know how to keep your heads in the sand.

    And as for accussing people like me of being "none too pleased every time a U.S. troop hits a new landmark" can go to hell!!! I feared this war was a mistake when it happened, just like Bush's daddy did, but I truely hoped I was wrong...I would have given anything to have been wrong!

    Do not question my motives or patriotism....I served my country in the military during a time of war....DID YOU??


    Do you care to elaborate about what historical standard you are using to call this war a 'success'?

    Are you blogging from Iraq? or are you sitting their in your easy chair? Who the hell are you to call everybody in America "a bunch of leftist pussies".

    You people are a riot!

    Mike... I agree that it is over the line (way over the line) to say that you (or people like you) are happy when soldiers die. Also, questioning your motives or patriotism is a weak way to argue. I wish people wouldn't stoop to arguing that way.

    However, it's also a little lame for you to pull out the "I served in the Military" card like that should give you special exemption somehow.

    Tim Roussart just said something very insightful: "you take a country to war, you don't send an army to war".

    How fitting!

    No Mike, only you would find this situation funny. I do know that report after report shows our troop moral being high, so if there is any indicator that this is a "quagmire" for U.S. troops, their moral levels would indicate that.

    "you take a country to war, you don't send an army to war".

    What a LAME bromide. Bumper-sticker argument at it's finest!

    And I meant "morale", so don't bother judging my education level over my writing a quick post, which you were going to predictably do.


    I agree. Accussing another American of being 'glad' when our soldiers die is loathsome. Thank you for backing me up on that.

    I only pulled out the I served in the Military card because of his low blow. I do not feel special in any way because of it and I rarely mention it.

    mike...we lost 5000 on d-day...we've lost about 3,000 fighting the war on terror in 5 years.
    any loss of life is regretable.

    let's put things in perspective.

    You're full of it Anonymous. Those sources show exactly what I'm talking about. You haven't read jack and you've understood even less. Those sources reveal that the use of certain practices within supermax prisons have led to a great deal of controvery and they include the exact same things being done to Padilla. But again, your one and only concern isn't with them, and by the way, they're also American citizens, it's all over a terrorist suspect with known Al Quaeda ties. Instead of using "Anonymous" as your name why don't you just call yourself Osama Bin Laden and be done with it?


    I don't think either one of us is in a good position to really judge the morale level. I've heard many things about this and am not sure what to believe.

    I have been pleasantly surprised as to how well these great young Americans have held up under the load, but do you think we can keep this level of pressure on them forever?

    The way Mike gloats about current events in Iraq, it sure seems like he hopes that we continue to suffer losses so he may prove a point on this board and to anyone who will listen. Call it a low blow, but that's clearly the perception.


    WWII was a classic case of when we took "our country to war" and didn't "just send an army to war".

    Absolutely, I do keep it in perspective. You guys are the ones who keep bringing up WWII and trying to compare it to Iraq.

    In WWII, we ALL more or less went to war. We had the front and the "home front". You couldn't take a pleasure drive because gas was strictly rationed. Most non-essential industry shut down in order to convert to Military products. Women and girls who had never worked a day in their lives working long hours in dirty factories.

    OK, lets WWII this thing! Lets stop going shopping and lets ALL get involved. Lets bring in the draft and call up a couple of million men. Lets stop making SUV's and Corvettes and sart turning out tanks and Humvees. Then lets go get all the radicals in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Western Pakistan, etc., etc, etc.

    Lets do it!

    Well RedState, there you go are clearly nothing but a jerk and I think even JohnE might agree with that one. At least he has proven that some right wingers have some class.

    "Instead of using "Anonymous" as your name why don't you just call yourself Osama Bin Laden and be done with it?"

    *screams with incoherent rage*



    You seem to have some anger issues there Anonymous. I've very patiently explained to you that Padilla's treatment is not unusual in a super-maximum facility. Add in the fact that he is being held on terrorist charges and I think that most sane, normal thinking people would agree that the precautions being taken with him aren't uncalled for or out of line. You seem to be particularly ignorant where Supermax practices are concerned and I certainly tried my best to educate you on them but you stubbornly insist on ignorng fact and creating your own little fiction where only Padilla is being treated this way and it's simply not true. Your irrational behavior and inexplicable concern for a terrorist and not for all U.S. Citizens imprisoned in super-max facilities rather speak for themselves. But thanks for playing, you've certainly illustrated the "Olbyloon" philosophy and mind-set for all to see here.

    And oh yeah, one more thing. Apparently you've never heard of someone being held without bail. It's quite a common practice in the American court system, particularly when someone has been accused of being violent and I think being a terrorist suspect certainly qualifies for that.So you seem to think he deserves bail? What is inhuman about denying someone bail? You do also realize that there is a back-log in the American court system which sometimes leads to trials taking years to get to court. At some point, Padilla will in fact be put on trial. So what exactly is your beef here? We've already determined that it's not unusual to hold someone without bail/bond, that it's not unusual to wait years to get a case to court, and that it's not unusual to be held in a super-max facility when conditions warrant. Again, tell me why you think Padilla deserves to be treated as if he's a rock star and put in a country-club facility with yoga, massage, and golf facilities?

    "Again, tell me why you think Padilla deserves to be treated as if he's a rock star and put in a country-club facility with yoga, massage, and golf facilities?"


    Shellback Steve,
    What right winger is claiming most of the commission members were Democrats? There were five members from each party. You're as bad as Robert Cox being too stupid to count to two.

    Where did I say that Padilla should be executed without a trial? and I've acknowledged that there is a great deal of controversy about the use of Supermax facilities and the strategies used on prisoners within them. So who exactly is doing the word-twisting here Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss Anonymous?

    Is Olby a Jew? Sure sounds like a jew Commie sometimes.

    Look, there are a lot of good reasons to slam Olbermann. His religion however isn't one of them. And no, he is not Jewish.

    colbert - how about removing your head from your liberal ass before posting and displaying how really stupid and uneducated you are? you are embarrassing yourself.

    Maybe the right wingers missed the jist of the Baker Report.
    There was an excellent song written during the Vietnam War that more than applies here. It goes:
    " Waist deep in the Big Muddy, the big fool says to push on " !

    If we wait two years to pull out of Iraq,thousands more will be killed, and nothing more will have been accomplished.

    And if we leave how many more thousands in Iraq will be killed because we left and the place falls into COMPLETE chaos? There are no easy answers and that's exactly what the report released earlier this week showed.