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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    December 11, 2006
    COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN - DECEMBER 11, 2006

    "COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" (8:00 P.M.-9:00 P.M. ET)

    Host: Keith Olbermann

    Topics/Guests:

    • PRES. BUSH IN A BUBBLE: Dana Milbank, Washington Post national political reporter and MSNBC political analyst; Wayne Slater, Dallas Morning News
    • "FAST FOOD NATION": Eric Schlosser, author of "Fast Food Nation"

    Olby's opening spiel couldn't have begun in a more predictable, cliched fashion: Bubble, bubble, toil, and trouble...how clever. Plus a three-day cram course on Iraq, Obama, Kucinich, TomDelay.com, the Taco e coli scares, dangerous video games, porn star Mary Carey, and Nicole Ritchie. It's an action-packed Hour of Spin!

    MADMAN

    Herr Olbermann started out by noting that in meeting with retired Generals on Iraq, "Mister" Bush only asked them to give him their own viewpoints. Bad "Mister" Bush! He should have made them sit there and listen to him. Then the infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann could have scolded the Prez for lecturing and not listening. Oh sorry, according to the nonpartisan Olbermann, it's really "the appearance of listening".

    Since Kofi Annan (the superb UN Secretary General who presided over the Oil for Food scandal) took shots at "Mister" Bush today, he got clips on Countdown that never would have been shown otherwise. That was the cue for Dana Milbank, absent arrant accoutrements. KO objectively characterized the President's recent activities as "slight of hand and a few photo-ops", but DM suspects substantive changes may be in the works "because he has no choice". Olby lied about a survey, saying it shows "Americans backing the ISG recommendations two to one". It actually showed 39% for, 20% against, and 26% unaware. For the numbers to comport with Olbermann's lie, they would have to be 67% for, 33% against, and 0% unaware. Dana showed just how pitifully sycophantic he is, referencing the 26% unaware as "the Bill O'Reilly segment". Is there nothing he will not do to suck up to this repellent host? You know he was great thanksed.

    Then it was on to Slater, of Bush's Brain fame. Olby: Bush is "outsourcing" just about every element of his administration. Slater: He's psychologically needy of historical vindication. Olby: He's the bubble boy. Slater: His circle of advisors gets "smaller and smaller". Olby: It's because it's his father's Secretary of State who headed the ISG and "Mister" Bush regards it as a "trip to the woodshed". Slater: You betcha, but he doesn't want to hear it. Olby: Great thanks.

    #4: Time for Barack and Awe! Mr Humility claimed that Obama's plans may have "crystallized" when he appeared on The Hour of Spin. Keith, you're so vain you probably think this candidacy is about you. After a second mention of the Countdown appearance, recycled NBC reportage filled out the story. Then: Kucinich will run, and Tom DeLay's new website. Monkeymann ridiculed the fact that DeLay has someone who writes the posts for him--an interesting criticism, given the fact that while DeLay was open about it, Citizen Keith still hasn't admitted to the ghost writer responsible for the (few) original passages in his latest failed book (not to mention the ones who work on Countdown and the Speshul Komments). Tom's blog got a ton of negative and vulgar comments (thanks to an organized campaign), and Olby was only too happy to read a few of them.

    After oddball (incorporating two more O'Reilly attacks), it was on to tainted food, easily spun in a leftward direction by citing what "critics say" (what critics? who?), and adding that's just what "Democrats" plan to do. Schlosser was happy to ramp up the spin: eeevil big business has too much influence. We need more regulations! Olby approvingly cites a Democrat, Schlosser concurs, and that's the least surprising string of phrases since someone recited the alphabet. Great thanks.

    #2: Possible shuttle difficulties, Princess Diana may have been bugged by the US (Keith was careful not to mention that this would have happened during the Clinton administration), Mel Gibson's new movie. #1: Nicole Ritchie, Mary Carey, and Paul McCartney with Tom O'Neill.

    OLBY

    Dogs that did not bark: It's big news when students in Iran protest in the face of their dictator, but not on OlbyPlanet. Of course, the Iranian convention of holocaust-deniers also went unmentioned by Herr Olbermann. Still nothing on the specific accusations of falsification and plagiariam against Jimmy Carter. Hamas announces that it secretly met with Democrats before the elections and got some interesting concessions from them. Silence. And the incoming chairman of the intelligence committee appears to be somewhat informationally challenged. He didn't even get a "worst person" nomination--slovenly political hacks like Fat Ass Olbermann protect their party at all costs. New developments in the matter of The Flying Imams were spiked, as usual. Edward R Olbermann ridiculed claims that Dems were behind some of the Foley leaks, so he has to keep this as quiet as possible. Finally, KO still refuses to tell his viewers how Jack Abramoff has implicated Sen Harry Reid.

    NAME

    Olbermann's book The book that bears Olberman's name dipped to #461 at amazon, while Mr Bill's "Culture Warrior" is #25. The OlbyTome is #1,588 at Barnes & Noble, but O'Reilly's book is #25. Friday night the discredited sports guy was up against lesser competition. Even so, The Kasich Factor had more than twice Olby's audience. Krazy Keith was a closer second, but still lost, in the critical, beloved, all-important, coveted "key demo". Tonight's MisterMeter reading: 6 [ELEVATED]


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (274) | | View blog reactions

    274 Comments

    Yeah.. Mister Bush is moving up with his approval rating,, his ratings are lower than KO's, but at least KO has special comments. Bush has special education on his side, I wonder if his service will
    be conducted with a series of short buses ?

    Posted by: Bill O'lielly at December 11, 2006 08:04 PM


    Frsh off your diaper change?

    Bill O'lielly,
    What's yor opinion on the Holocaust denail conference in Iran attended by the new alliance of the Racist-Right, Radical-Left and Islamo-Fascists?
    Why no condemnation from Olbermann?

    Bill O'lielly,
    What's yor opinion on the Holocaust denail conference in Iran attended by the new alliance of the Racist-Right, Radical-Left and Islamo-Fascists?
    Why no condemnation from Olbermann?

    Interesting topic there....Mr. Olbermann making light of a "ghost blogger" on tomdelay.com, drawing special mention of Delay quote that he has ideas, but other people who are better writers put the ideas to paper.

    Let me make sure I understand...all of Keith's previous works were written by him, without any "ghost writers", correct?

    Secondly, he references a post made by someone anonymous on the Delay blog about how "all bloggers are unemployed losers" (which of course brought the reappearance of the laughing stagehand). I can't remember any mention at all about bloggers being "unemployed losers" when Kos, Jane Hamsher, Ariana Huffington, etc...have graced the stage with dear beloved Keith.

    All at the Holocaust denial conference could look to Adolf Olbermann to learn the proper salute. Or maybe that will be how they greet a friend in the back of the room.

    I wonder if Olbermann will name Ahmadinejad worst person in the world? I wouldn't hold my breath!

    And let's not forget MSNBC-buttboy, Brian from TVNewser. What does that make him exactly?

    Notice the silence from the Left about the Holocaust conference in Iran.

    Loons--

    What's your opionion of the man who is getting ready to be seated as the next House Intellgence Committee chair ( Rep. Reyes (D)) who cannot even answer the most basic questions about the nature of terrorism in the Middle East (i. e. cannot answer correctly whether al Qaeda is Sunni or Shiite)? Still waiting to see if the Orange One will mention a giant faux pas such as this, but not holding my breath since this is a Dem. If this were a Republican . . . well, you Loons can figure it out.

    Notice the silence from the Left about the Holocaust conference in Iran.

    How would Olbermann give a shout out to a friend at the Holocaust conference???????? Any ideas???

    Red Wolf:

    Calling attention to nuts is exactly what the nuts want, be they domestic or foreign nuts.

    In this country, we have the "911 inside job conspiracy theorists", among others. There's more of them than you think. I know two of them. Olbermann doesn't talk about them either. Does that mean he support them too?

    I'm beginning to think you are obsessed with Iran and it's nutball president.

    I'm guessing with his "Nazi salute".

    Keith's "official" countdown message board at MSNBC's website. It's full of conspiracy theorists. And all types of conspiracies, not just 9/11. It's a scary look into the brain of your average KO-fan.

    This isn't a nutball conference. It's sponsered by a government. The problem is the left downsplay the Islamic threat.

    This isn't a nutball conference. It's sponsered by a government. The problem is the left downsplay the Islamic threat.

    Red Wolf,

    Your double, triple, quadroople, and quintuple postings are driving me nuts. Stop that! Post it once and keep your fingers off the keyboard.

    olbermann #1 liberal a--hole on TV
    O'lielly #1 a--hole on olbermann watch.

    Sorry rico.
    It's an accident.

    Mike,
    Unlike Olbermannthat claim the US is a Fascist state, I'm worried about real totalitarianism. Olbermann never discusses the Iranian/Islamic threat. Instad he's obsessed wih Bush and O'Reilly. He hates his fellow countrymen instead of our enemies.

    I just saw a clip of "the Factor" with someone 'debating' O'Reilly about whether NBC News has "turned to the left or not"? His opponant got exactly three words out ("no I don't"), before he cut her off stating "it's obvious you don't watch cable news".

    Sure, he runs a 'debate' show, and the Moon is made of green cheese too!

    Mike,

    It is true that O'Reilly doesn't let his guests speak, but that's true for all of his guests, both left and right. If I were a "talking head" on TV I would never go on his show.

    The correct phrase is "bleau cheese". No parle vous Francois?

    Unlike Olbermann O'Reilly lets other with different opinions on. Unlike Olbermann he discusses the Iranian/Islamic threat.

    You're right, Mike...if we ignore the Holocaust conference, maybe the Islamo-facist threat will go away.

    You becom emore pathetic with every post.

    Meanwhile, Scarborough just did an Olbermann-esque skit (it can't be called a segment) on O'Reilly audacity in attacking NBC News for becoming decidedly left. Joe and his guest, the deplorable Steve Adabato, were shocked O'reilly would come to such a conclusion.

    Of course, the pesky little fact that Olbermann had made O'Reilly WPITW 142 times on Countdown was ignored, or that Olbermann never has a GOP member on to discuss issues. Being that Countdown is a news program, is that evidence enough that NBC should be considered bias and liberal?

    Who was Worst Person in the world?

    Red Wolf:

    Iran is clearly a threat but I think you are magnifying that threat. They truely are a threat to Israel, and I see the day coming where we may have to defend them with direct military intervention, but there have been wolves at the door before.

    You don't really see any scenario where Iran could actually 'defeat' us, as in being capable of creating totalitarism over here, do you? I think that is absurd, but if I were an Israeli, I would be really worried though.

    That said, since you expressed concern over the Iranian people being brainwashed about the Holocaust; I think EVERYBODY is concerned about that, but what would you have us do about it?

    There are plenty of people being brainwashed against us all over the Middle East.

    And the O'Reilly clip was obviously edited, Mike...are you that gullible to believe that O'Reilly's guest wasn't allowed to speak after that point? If you saw the show or read the transcript, you'd see that she was given more than ample time to make her argument.

    But being a classic MSNBC News move, they only showed you what only fit their side of the debate.

    Redstate:

    I'm proud to have you think my posts are 'pathetic', because your thinking is so twisted a I must be doing something right.

    OK, let me ask YOU; What would you have us do about the Holocaust Conference or all the other equally offensive brainwashing that is also going on over there?

    Talking it to death won't make it go away either.

    Mike,
    It's not just Iran, they have allies in Syria, Hizballah and Al-Qaeda. They can defeat us because the lefis press here in America supports them. They always speak highly of Ahmadinejad.
    The Media should condemn this conference and make sure every American knows what Iran is all about. Instead they show the UN jerk Coffe Anan attacking the US and they drool all over it. I belive that the press is very dangerous and my be recieving money from Iran and it's Islamo-Fascist allies.

    Restate:

    Don't be so condescending. I have watched the O'Relly show many times. Yes, I'm aware that one clip does not tell the whole story, but he still talked over her after asking her to answer a question.

    I just used that as an example of what I personally cannot stand about O'Reilly and, believe it or not, he's no better than Olbermann, but at least Olbermann has more common sense.

    Red Wolf:

    You need to post some examples of the left supposrting the Iranian nut because I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

    For example, you think Olbermann 'supports' him, but I watch his show almost every night and I have never seen him even come close to what you are sugesting.

    I've seen and heard about Iran until I am sick of hearing about it. Why do you think Americans arn't being told about this? Hell, half of all Americans don't even know who the speaker of the house is, but that's not the media's fault.

    Koffe Anon resigned today, and that is why his speech is 'news' today. It won't be tomorrow.

    If I was producing a news program, I certainly would make it my #1 story. A nation that happens to be building a nuclear weapon, has threatened to wipe Israel off the map, and is hosting a conference to once again deny that six million Jews were slaughtered is the most important news item of the day.

    For Olbermann to ignore this story is absolutely shameful and completely irresponsible. It also illustrates that Olbermann is not about informing viewers, as a news program should do, but to use his hour as a platform to embarrass a sitting President and ridicule a competitor whose ratings he can't come close to touching.


    Mike,
    During the Israel Hizballah conflict, he blamed Israel for it. He even praised Hizballah and talked about how good they were. he forgot to mentioned that they killed 300 Marines.

    Mike,

    What I would do about Iran is the following:

    Attack all of their military installations using air power. Kill their generals and soldiers, and destroy their tanks, ships, and planes. Do same to their nuclear facilities. Just by coincidence, that is what I have been wanting to do to them for the past 25 years, War on Terror or no War on Terror.

    Rico,
    I would strike them when their Ayatollahs are gathering to pray on Friday. Decapitate their leadership. Of course their Leftist allies will bitch wine and moan.

    Hey redstate you say he uses his program to embrass a setting president roflmao. bush does that for him self on a daily bases the man cant even speak proper english lol i used to hate bush still kind of but now everytime i see him on tv i just start laughing hes only at 34% in the polls and the big bad olbermann is picking on our upstanding leader lol this website is good for a laugh your president is the laughing stock of the nation lol

    Hey redstate you say he uses his program to embrass a setting president roflmao. bush does that for him self on a daily bases the man cant even speak proper english lol i used to hate bush still kind of but now everytime i see him on tv i just start laughing hes only at 34% in the polls and the big bad olbermann is picking on our upstanding leader lol this website is good for a laugh your president is the laughing stock of the nation lol

    Red Wolf:

    I don't specifically remember the KO program you are referring to but I'm pretty sure I would have had a different interpretation on whether or not he was 'supporting' them or not.

    Did you know the major reason that Hizballoh had so much support among the Lebanese people? It was because they understand the concept of "winning the hearts and minds of the people". They supported these poor people socially, gave them medical care, and rebuilt their houses. Hizballoh could not have become embedded and fight Israel to a standstill the way they did if they had not won this popular support. These are simple hard facts and are in no way 'support' of Hizballoh.

    So you see, we could have learned something from our enemies about how to win hearts and minds. That is exactly where we have failed in Iraq.

    Since you all asked...to hell with the Jews. They can go rot with Mister Bush back the in the wasteland (Texas or otherwise) they all wandered out of.

    Rico:

    Don't you think we would have been in a much better position to seriously consider doing that had we not occupied and become bogged down in Iraq?

    Mike,

    You should have listened to the Michael Medved show today. The guest was a woman of Lebanese Christian origin. She told how her country used to be majority Christian but changed when Shiite Muslims, bringing violence and terror over the years, drove most of them out. The terrorists and their followers are now running a lot of the show in Lebanon now. It's not because "they supported poor people socially". It's because they are fanatical Jew haters and Christian haters. In other words, they don't like Infidels very much. Tell me, Infidel, why do you continue to compliment the enemy that wants to kill you?

    Blue State Gal:

    Please tell me you are really a shill for the right. If not, please don't post again. your hurting your own cause. thx

    Mike,
    Your sticking up for a Fascist organization that has the blood of 300 US Marines. You juust proved my point.
    They didn't fight Israel to a standstill. Israel had a Leftiwing government that used only 10% of Israel's military strenghtand tied the hands of it's army to win International support. It didn't work because Leftists in the media were condemning Israeli bombings while cheering on Hizballah's missle attacks.
    If Netanahu and the Likud was in power they would've used overwhelming force to level South Lebanon and defaet Hizballh global opinion be damned. The left is a 5th column in the west for Islam.
    In fact when Ethipia invades Somalia to stop the Al-Qaeda allied Islamic Courts from takeing over, you'll see Leftists in the media condemning ethipia and praising the ISU. amrk my words.

    Hey so by Olbylogic, Hitler was OK since he won hearts and minds by providing basic services to Germans right? The Nazis were swell guys like Hizballah. You Mike suffer from Olbylogic!

    Another great update by Johnny D.

    Citizen Keith does not do any stinking writing. At least Delay admitted it.

    I did not watch the show tonight, but he sounded extra deplorable.

    L.F.

    Rico:

    Whenever you fail to understand your enemy COMPLETELY, you will fail in your attempt to defeat him! This means that you must give him whatever respect he deserves and not just demonize him.

    Bush & Company clearly didn't understand that when they undertook this invasion. There were plenty of articles written in the media warning him of the possible pitfalls....written by experts who understood the culture, but it turned out they weren't reading or watching any of that stuff.

    Mike,
    We didn't give respect to the Nazi's in WW2. We crushed them. That's what we must do Iran, Iraq qnd Syria. We must be ruthless like the Mongols. that's how you win.

    So answer me were the Nazis good since they provided services to the poor?

    Mike,

    You are conflating two things(Iraq and Iran) here. "Conflating" is bad because Keith says so. He accused Bush of doing that very thing a few weeks ago.

    If you kill the enemy you don't have to "understand" them. I don't think we ever understood the Japanese during Word War II. No matter, because we annihilated them. It worked. They never attacked us again. In fact, they are our allies and friends now. Sorry, I'm going back into "universal truths about war"! I know you hate that stuff.

    Rico,
    we've exposed Mike as being an Islamic and Nazi sympathizer!

    Red Wolf:

    No, you just proved MY point!!!

    I just knew you were going to acuse me of "sticking up for Hizballoh" if a dared say anything at all positive about them! Thats exactly what you did to Olbermann...but you are the one who is confused!

    The 'media' didn't fight that war. Israel had weeks to do whatever it could do and nobody was going to stop them, least of all the media. I was rooting for them to crush Hizballoh and was very surprised and disappointed when they didn't. It looked to me like their own leadership went soft on them.

    You are laying too much blame and giving WAAAYYY too much credit on the media for world events. Their job is to simply report the truth, whether or not the truth is what we want to hear.

    You really do need to get off this "leftist media" hang up so you can see the world more clearly.

    Red Wolf,

    Mike is a troubled person. We should have compassion for him. He says that he is a "centrist" and not a "liberal". But he still has what I like to call "their disease". Very sad.

    The media is Leftist. Why is it they all have the same opinions and sound like hacks for the DNC. They never criticize Leftists like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. But they go after Guilliani, McCain and Romney?

    Rico:

    Your "universal truths" about war are bulls*#t!

    We never fought the Japanese people, we fought their army.

    In the Middle East, just like Vietnam, we don't know who are the enemy, and who are just innocent civilians just trying to survive the whole mess.

    Is your solution to kill them all, just to make sure we got all the bad guys too? If so, you are a more despicable character than I can even imagine.

    Sorry but we don't have the luxury of just killing our enemies. We HAVE to understand them to succeed.

    Red Wolf,

    They are sick in the head. "Bush on the Brain", I like to call it. Republicans, conservatives, and Christians bad, everybody else not so bad.

    Mike,
    We bombed the crap out of Germany and Japan. We didn't do that in this war. There's nothing to understand than just kill as many as possible.
    The Mongols didn't understand their enemies. They crushed them!

    Rico,
    You're right. According to the Left's Olbylogic Rightwingers, Christians and Israelis bad. Marxists, Socialists and Muslims good!

    Rico,
    It's useless arguing with these Leftists. I'm planning to move to Australia where they have an anti Muslim government. At least western civ will survive there. I think America is doomed.

    Red Wolf and Redstate:

    I'm about to give up because you just can't argue with closed minds and convoluted logic.

    How about this Mr. Wolf; Do you think OJ Simpson is a despicable murderer? I hope so because most logical people do.

    Now what if I say Mr. Simpson was a great football player and a very capable play by play announcer. Would I be lying.....or would I be telling the truth? Now, does telling the truth about his exceptional football prowess make him any less a despicable murderer?

    That is exactly the same kind of lame logic you used to accuse both me, KO, and half the population of America of 'supporting' Hizballohh.

    OJ's murder has tarnished his career. Therefore his part career bmeans jack.
    By Olbylogic Hitler was a compasionate ruler. He provided Jobs, Healthcare and Education to poor Germans. What a swell guy right? Nvermind that Holocaust thing. Let's look at Hitler's positives!

    Mike,

    We killed millions of innocent civilians in World War II, in Japan and Germany and elsewhere. Tell those we incinerated that we weren't at war with them, just "their army".

    It will always be a universal truth that if you kick somebody's ass enough they will never bother you again. I know you don't like it, but you are lying about why. You don't want us to kick anybody's ass. We don't have the moral right to because of all of the Republicans, Christians, and conservatives amongst us.

    Regarding the Middle East, first you are complimenting the terrorists in Lebanon and then you say we can't tell them apart from the civilians. Bet I could!

    WOW! enlightning!

    So you people just believe in genocide against Muslems because SOME of them are out to get us and the rest of them don't undertstand or support us. You really do believe in the pathetic Bush mantra "you are either with us or against us"?

    Kill them all and we won't have to worry about any of them anymore....How Christian!

    You are both very selfish and pathetic individuals and you both seriously need mental help!

    Excuse me, I have to watch Jon Stewart interview Lincoln Chafee, both of whom you two probably think are Hizballoh supporter too!

    Mike says:
    "Sorry but we don't have the luxury of just killing our enemies. We HAVE to understand them to succeed."

    Our enemies aren't intersted in being understood. How do you think Israel has been able to withstand repeated and constant terror attacks by determined Islamofacists who wish their destruction? I can tell you one thing, it ain't because Israel has tried to "understand" it's enemy. It's because they have kicked their enemies ass. And the enemy respects that. Get a clue Mike.

    Mike,
    what about the Nazis?
    Yes Jon Stewart and Chafee support Iran/Hizballah/Al-Qaeda. That's why Chafee was gainst Bolon because he stood up to the Islamo-Fascists!

    Rico:

    I don't like it because this is not WWII and I am a human being! I'm not sure what you are!

    Mike,
    How come Olbermann hasn't reported the terror connections of the Iman who were kicked off the planes? Why did he stop reporting on it when witnesses said that they were making anti-American statements and were being loud and rude>
    Why did Olbermann stop talking about it?
    I'll tell you, because he sympathizes with them and when the truth came out it wasn't convenient anymore for him!

    This should be like WW2 qnd we should show no mercy and be more ruthless than our enemy!

    Mike,

    Must have been a quick interview with Lincoln Chafee!

    So you are now saying that what we could do in World War II we cannot do now? Who changed the rules of war?

    Any innocents in the Islamic world are no more innocent than the millions we bombed to death in World War II.

    You people are amazing. I'm glad I came here because you won't even hear this kind of right wing radical insannity on O'Reilly or Hannity.

    You guys actually want to annmiliate the Muslem world and bomb them back to the stone age! Amazing!

    Well guess what nutjobs, it would take nuclear weapons to do what you want because we've already proven bombs have limited effectiveness and invasions have their drawbacks as well.

    Who said about using nukes. In WW2 we leveled Germany and Japan without Nukes. If we have to use 1 or 2 to end it why not. They would and might well in a heart beat. Thank God Olbermann and the Leftist media wasn't around back then!
    The Nazis would've held Europe because they did provide services to the poor!

    Rico,
    mike proves what Olbylogic is all about. Ther is none to it!

    Mike,

    Look on the bright side. If we do it my way, we win! That's good for you, too.

    Rico,
    According to Mike's Olbylogic the Nazis were good. they provided services to the poor!

    We have two choices-- stand and fight until the enemy backs down OR we talk to our enemy, and we understand our enemy, and we "redeploy" (run away from) from our enemy and we hide from our enemy and hope that our enemy will leave us alone. If you really understood the enemy, Mike, you would know that our enemy will NOT stand down until we annihilate them. If we don't, the enemy will come after us wherever we are eventually.

    Do you remember the original Terminator movie? Do you remember how the Terminator just kept on coming back again and again determined to destroy its target? This is the Islamofacist mentality. It cannot be reasoned with, understood or talked to-- it must be destroyed!

    Red Wolf,

    According to Mike we are the Nazis! Sticks and stones.............

    Rico:

    Stewart's interviews are always quick...too quick! Chaffee, a hell of a guy. I'd never heard him interviewed before.

    You and I both know if we weren't hooked on their oil, we would not care less waht was going on in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Syria, etc. etc.

    You can go on believing there is a comparable situation today between now and WWII but I reject that. What army are we actually fighting. where are their front lines? Who do they report to? Oh yeah, you want to juzt kill everybody....nuke Baghdad....I just cannot grasp that kind of barbaric thinking, and that's what makes me a human being, and a patriotic American!

    You guys sound more like Nazi's than Americans!

    I'm through!

    HAHAHA, what is that nonsense about 39% for, 20% against, and 26% unaware not meaning 2to1 for the Iraq Study Groups reccomendations. Of course that's what it means. He wasn't hiding the fact that he was discussing people that knew what the hell the report was. If he was he wouldn't have shown the stats on screen. You are simply frothing at the mouth crazy! You'd jump at any chance to portray KO in a bad light. My god man!

    And, technically, sure you have a point, but it's the worst kind of being right. The kind that proves your morals are for sale to your political party.

    Sincerely,
    Josh

    Mike is attacking our patriotism!!! Call the ACLU!! Call Susan Sarnadon!! Call Babs Streisand!!

    Mike,

    The enemy is more sneaky in the current war. They hide behind human shields. They walk amongst us. That is so devious. That is a lot worse than being in a standard army and attacking us in military formation. The only thing unacceptable to me is not defeating them.

    And I never said nuke Baghdad.

    I was watching Keith's show...and during the commercial I flipped over to O'Reilly. I swear to God I couldn't believe it. He was on his War on Christmas rant again.
    War on Christmas !
    Such hard hitting news !
    And so original too !
    TDF.
    Back to Keith.
    I thought his interview with the author of Bush's Brain, Wayne Slater, was illuminating.
    They brought out an interesting point.
    Bush must be positively tormented over what his legacy is going to be.People in the WHite House have mentioned Bush does talk about it.
    Considering that the hallmark of his presidency is the Iraq war,and all except the most delusional agree it's been a disaster, them are pretty bitter pills to swallow.
    Also with the incompetency in so many other areas, like his response to the Katrina disaster,
    ( New Orleans continues to languish )history will not be kind to him.
    To think he has 2 more years to totally screw up so much more, it's actually much more sad for the rest of us,and what we're going to have to endure.

    Also they brought out how W's father's friends for once didn't come in and save his hide from a typical failure. This time Baker and the boys came in to take Bush to the woodshed.
    Bush has surrounded himself with yes men for his entire presidency. It was common knowledge around the White House not to have dissenting opinions around him.But as all the yes men have fallen by the wayside, he's been left alone with his delusional idea of what a success Iraq is going to be.
    Yes Bubble Boy is all alone now, with no one to kiss his ass and tell him what a great war he's running...except the stooges here at this site of course.

    And I heard someone beat their chest about how great it is for Bush that the deficit is decreasing ???
    So he is going to get credit for reducing the huge deficit that he created ?
    Only in GOP lala land is that a great acomplishment.
    Now about the DEBT....

    > what is that nonsense about 39% for, 20% against

    > technically, sure you have a point

    Note that a person who speaks correctly and has a valid point is speaking "nonsense". This is OlbyLogic in its purest form: truth is wrong, spin is good. I always get a good laugh from the Olbypologists.

    Nice spin job Johnny, now post the whole thing in context, sellout!!!!

    Sincerely,
    Josh

    Hank:

    Yea, I know I said I was through...well almost anyway!

    So you say our enemy is like "the Terminator"?. I guess that means you DO understand your enemy? Or you think you do anyway!

    I don't accept that the situation is a dire as you do. They have never proven they have any real ability to "come after us", except in their own country...and please spare me the 911 speech for the ten thousanth time! 19 fanatical hijackers, 4 planes, and a surprise attack after 3 years of planning will never constitute a true threat to America.

    However, we can destroy ourselves from within if we overreact, kind of like a driver causing a fatal head on collision because they got stung by a bee.

    I admit, it has been educational. I had no idea there were that many people like you guys out there who want us to turn into total barbarians over this!

    Oh Rico:

    NOW your backtracking!

    For the record though, to defeat them, you probably are going to have to nuke or firebomb Baghdad, and Anbar, and Falluja, etc. etc. etc.

    Or, are you back to "stay the course"!

    Mike,

    After Pearl Harbor the Japanese were never going to attack America again. They were no threat to our existence. They just wanted to keep us out of their interests in the Pacific.

    But we didn't care. We annihilated them. We used flame throwers on their boys in the Pacific. We napalmed their major cities. Then we nuked them.

    So we got "stung by a bee" on 911? Again, if somebody ever slaps you in the face, Mike, will you ever let them do it to you again?

    No Mike...the barbarians nazis are far and few between .
    remember..they lost the election and have much anger and hatred to let loose.
    Most people are coming around and seeing that the emperor really doesn't have any clothes and aren't afraid to say it.
    These clowns are like Hitler's men that stayed with him in the bunker...taking the cyanide...going down the ship.

    Bob:

    Your right man, it's just dumbfounding to read what some of these clowns actually believe...but kind of like arguing with a wall!

    Believe me....the wall has more sense.

    Where'd you go Johnny? Are you tired of being technically right but morally bankrupt? C'mon, don't take it so hard, maybe if you just started unabashedly lieing you could just be ethically challenged without the burden of trying to skew the facts. It really makes the job of character assassin much easier. Just ask Ann Coulter, Mike Savage, and Matt Drudge.

    Rico, Rico, Rico:

    We had a double threat from both oceans in WWII. Real threats with REAL armies that really did have the reach to threaten us. Do you think we would have been safe once Europe and the far East had been 'secured' by the Japanese and the Germans? No I don't think so either.

    You have, however been successful in making me respond to a WWII analogy, which I don't think applies at all to Iraq, or the war on terror (two different things). As far as tactics, I think there are many things we could have done differently, but we would have still won. Am I proud of firebombing Dresden?....No, I don't think that was necessary at all and now we have to live with the guilt. I personally have less guilt about the a bomb because I believe it probably did save lives overall...that IS the goal - right?

    And there's that stupid slap in the face question again. I know where you are going with it, but you really don't see how stupid that question is do you?

    Mike,

    You still hate being asked questions. The slap in the face question is real. "I know where you are going with it". That's why you don't want to answer it. You could just answer it. It's not hard. If you want to invalidate my point you first have to answer the question.

    You refer to 911 as a "bee sting". In other words, 911 is just a nuisance to you. That is truly the stupidest thing you have said in your life. I guess you didn't mind it that much. Do you think that we, in any way, shape, or form deserved 911? Yes or no, please. I think your answer is yes. Michael Moore thinks Dallas would have been a better target than New York. Do you agree? Red state, you know.

    Mike, you want someone to play your game? Fine, try me.

    No Mike, I wouldn't let them hit me again. I would follow established guildlines to stop the person for hitting me again. Such as talking to the person and letting them know that that behavior is unacceptable. Or, if necessary, by involving the local autorities and having the proper restrictions placed on said abuser.

    Now, want me to list the things I wouldn't do? Too bad!

    I wouldn't attack a man that didn't slap me. (Like when Bush attacked Iraq.) I wouldn't unlawfully inact my own policies to deal with the offender. I wouldn't discount the opinions of my friends or the community as a whole. I wouldn't ............. (yeah goes on for a long time.)...........

    Any other overly simplistic, misleading, or devisive questions?

    Sry Mike, that was meant to be directed to Rico.

    O'Leilly:

    The Jews are God's chosen people. To say to Hell with them is flat-out wrong. You should read the Bible and begin the healing process because you Sir are certainly misguided and are yourself on your way to Hell.

    John,

    What more do you know about the path to hell than the next hellbound hethen?

    Sincerely,
    Josh

    I know that I'm going to Heaven Josh. Why do you assume I'm Hellbound?

    You presume to know who will and won't. I didn't know god had bestown you with such divine abilities. You don't happen to know when and where Jesus will be reborn too?

    Sincerely,
    Josh

    John,

    Oh, don't go away John! I wanted to ask you about a few people. I am very curious to know whether they will end up in god's good graces. You seem to be able to help me with this predicament. PLEASE!!!!

    Sardically,
    Josh

    Sry John,

    That should have read "Sardonicly, Josh." As if you didn't know.

    WASHINGTON - For a wounded President locked in a lethal downward spiral ever since his reelection, it was the cruelest week of all.

    In 72 hours last week, a bipartisan commission harshly repudiated Bush's Iraq policy. Incoming Secretary of Defense Robert Gates told senators the U.S. isn't winning the war. Then a British journalist snarkily asked at a White House press conference if Bush weren't "in denial" about Iraq.

    For good measure, a new poll found only 27% of Americans back his Iraq policy, a new low. And a moderate GOP senator termed the policy "absurd" and possibly criminal.

    Is the "Mission Accomplished" or is "Freedom on the March?"

    Red Wolf:

    "The Mongols didn't understand their enemies. They crushed them!"

    The Mongols as a people DON'T EXIST ANYMORE. Thew conquered the Asian world, then fell apart because there was NO ONE LEFT TO FIGHT.

    Didn't we learn this lesson from the Romans, or the Mongols, or the Napoleonic French, or the British Empire? You try to get too big, you'll end up suffering the consequences.

    "This should be like WW2 qnd we should show no mercy and be more ruthless than our enemy!"

    Dude, if we do that what the HELL are we fighting for? If we decided that being safe meant wiping out everyone who threatened us, we're no better than they are. Is that what you really want? To be responsible for the deaths of MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE simply because they are "in the way"?

    "If we have to use 1 or 2 [nukes] to end it why not."

    Ignoring the fact that Nuclear Radiation is not very selective about who it kills, how about the fact (repeated over and over) that even ONE nuclear missile fired from a United States ballistic sub would have enough nuclear force to cause NUCLEAR WINTER? One warhead carries a payload more than 10 times the nuclear yield of the weapons we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki COMBINED. Add to that that there are eight warheads on a typical missile, and now you have an explosive yield of over 6 Megatons. That level of destruction would devastate the ecosystem and precipitate the end of life on Earth as we know it.

    It has been repeated over and over again. WHY WON'T YOU GET IT?

    I don't (and didn't) presume anything. However, I think it's safe to say that O'Leilly is clearly on the wrong path and for him to damn the jews to hell (along with months of hate-filled and venemous writings) plainly represents what he stands for. But I love him (as I love you Josh) and will pray for you both that you find your way to true salvation.

    "Princess Diana may have been bugged by the US (Keith was careful not to mention that this would have happened during the Clinton administration)"

    Let's draw a map, shall we?

    Distinguishing:

    a) Diana was not a United States citizen
    b) she was not on U.S. soil at the time her calls may have been monitored.
    Therefore actions are LEGAL under the FISA law since a warrant is not required to listen to a foreign national on foreign soil. Whether these actions are ethical or moral is subject to dispute.

    Contrast:

    Under FISA, listening to calls made by U.S. citizens on U.S. soil WITHOUT A WARRANT is a crime. President Bush has admitted to listening to calls made by U.S. citizens while those citizens were on U.S. soil. Therefore, it is ILLEGAL under the FISA law.

    I appreciate the sentiment. But, hath you no sin yourself? Are you not also on your own path to hell? I submit that everyone is on their own distinctly different path to hell, and that admonishing others for their theological flaws is patently hypocritical. Indeed, the bible confirms my suspicions, casting the first stone and what not. Instead, for the purposes of admonishment, we should look for equity, not salvation, for that is God's territory.

    Very sincerely,
    Josh

    Hello fellow "unemployed losers". So Republicans are responsible for the E. Coli outbreak at Taco Bell? Damn you Karl Rove!

    Dana Milbank has been on the show so often that Keith's Bill O'Reilly obsession has rubbed off on him.

    In other words, it is fine, and even correct, to say that "to hell with the jews" is not an acceptable opinion for society and the wellbeing of humanity. It is not ok invoke eternal damnation as his punishment, for without the grace of God go thee.

    Mike said:I have watched the O'Relly show many times. Yes, I'm aware that one clip does not tell the whole story, but he still talked over her after asking her to answer a question.

    I just used that as an example of what I personally cannot stand about O'Reilly and, believe it or not, he's no better than Olbermann, but at least Olbermann has more common sense.
    Gee, who does'nt talk over their guests now and then.I have seen Scarbough,Carlson,Holmes,and the worst has got to be Chris Matthews.But your right about olbermann not doing it but it's not "common sense".You dont have to talk over someone who is basically a cheerleader for you. Oh, and by the way here's another lie KO spewed about the man that is no better than hin. Keith Olbermann: "To the liberal Northwest, Seattle, Washington, where a mighty blow has been struck against the good guys in the war on Christmas. Nine 15-foot Christmas trees being dismantled at the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, SeaTac, after a local rabbi came in and asked for a big Menorah to be put on display as well. Airport officials, rather than surrendering and recognizing the Jewish holiday, opted to take down the Christmas trees. No Hanukkah, no Christmas, no nothing. It's a scorched Earth policy at SeaTac. Generalissimo O'Reilly remains upbeat. Look not on this as a defeat in the war on Christmas. This was a dramatic victory in Billow's new war against Hanukkah."

    O'Reilly: "But that's what I'm saying. I'm saying why, there is no reason not to put up a Menorah in the Sea-Tac Airport because Hanukkah is a celebrated holiday, and, you know, Americans of Jewish faith would like to see it, and it's in context, so put it up."

    Karris56:

    I didn't say Olbermann has more common sense than O'Reilly just because he doesn't talk over his guests.

    I said it because, well....he has more common sense....period!

    Rico:

    You sir, are a total idiot!

    How many times do I have to answer your inane 'slap' question? I SAID the answer would depend on the circumstances of the slap?....who did it, why they did it, and what is my existing relationship with the slapper. Are you just too stupid to understand when a question has been answered?

    Nor did I say 911 was just a bee sting. I did use that analogy to make a point. Our REACTION to 911 WAS excessive and self destructive! And finally, IRAQ didn't have a damned thing to do with 911, for the ten thousanth time!

    Is all of that just beyond your limited capacity to see reality?

    By the way, Anon, just below your post had a pretty good answer to your 'slap' question. If you get slapped by one person, you don't beat the crap out of someone else (as in Iraq).

    Rico:

    I've figured you out. It took a while because it is difficult for me to accept the reality that some people see the world in such simplistic terms.

    With the 'slap' question; You thought you asked a simple question...but you didn't! There is no simple answer to a question like that without knowing the precise circumstances of the slap, the slapper, as well as other circumstances.

    ALL of you analogies, points, and question show that you view the world in simplistic terms. Everything is either good or evil....right or wrong....off or on....good or bad....us or them. In your little black and white world, there is no room for nuance, shades of grey, or self analysis.

    Congatulations, thats one trait you share with our extremist enemies!

    We had been getting slapped by that punk Hussein in Iraq for ten years. We had been getting slapped by Osama for even longer. For years we did nothing to either. Then we got a huge sucker PUNCHED by Osama becuase we had emboldened hime through many administrations. So we said, "thats it!" So we went into Afghanistan and wiped out the Taliban and chased Osama into Pakistan. Then we said no more punks slapping us, and said 'no more sucker punches. So on world-wide intelligence we warned Saddam to ditch the 'sucker-punch' weapons or we are gonna come and kick your ass too. He played the punk and did not abide by 17 resolutions. So we went in and kicked the punks ass. Just so happens that some more punks from Al Queda jumped in while we were there. There is you bitch slap! (Tip: Mike, when you respond spell it Muslim -not Muslem. It makes you look better)

    And I will proof my posts better too next time. :)

    Worldnetdaily and Fox News printed stories that Olbermann wouldn't touch? How odd that he isn't buying into the extremist right wing distortion parade and bleating what they tell him to!

    This site gets lamer every week. You call reporting news "spin" and whine like a little wet-pantsed girlie that they don't pick up everything that the right-wing noise machine vomits out.

    Benson,

    The Taliban isn't wiped out. Why are you being idiotic so early?

    Look at Mike...jumping on here at 7:00 AM after posting rambling, incoherent diatribes well into the early morning hours.

    You must have quite a social life and demanding career. Either that, or no one in the real world actually pays attention to you...so you come on here, make some outlandish comments solely made to be controversial or idiotic (the Olbermann having more common sense than O'Reilly explanation was timeless), and people actually respond to what you have to say.

    How very sad...I could only imagine what you did for kicks before the Internet came along.

    Ah yes, I wake this fine morning to again find another hour of leftist anti-Semitism.....Keith Olbermann is doing his job well.

    The main power broker in the Middle East, Iran, holds a state endorsed conference to research the fraud that was the 20th century pogram against a group of people based on their religion, and not even a five minute analysis of the obvious impact this has on the current difficulties in the region. Allow me to explain to those who do not understand....

    1 The US (still) supports Israel

    2 Iran, Iraq under Saddam, and Syria supported terrorism AS STATE POLICY against Israel

    3 US removes Saddam from Iraq

    4 Syria and Iran support terrorist activity against pro-US entities in Iraq and continue to support terrorist activity against Israel

    So, my liberal friends, the hatred expressed in the Iran Holocaust conference is yet another example of why those who do not support Israel's right to exist will never be honest negotiation partners. Work backwards and see that until the US agrees not to support Israel, these militant islamists will continue the terrorism in Iraq, Israel and the occupied territories.

    State sponsored terrorism against anyone should not be tolerated by any nation.....However, it currently seems to me that, George Bush and Tony Blair are the only current leaders of countries that are ready to fight for this rightous idea.

    I will always respect these two great leaders for their courage to do what is right in the face of cowardly advice and continued hatred by the left.

    BTW, Olbermann, being a spokeperson for the far left, is incapable to cover the story of the anti-Semitic basis for the troubles in the region because he and his demographic are anti-Semitic.

    Mike said:


    The big difference is, the 911 conspiracy nutjobs aren't exactly toying with atomic bombs at the moment.

    Yeah, if you pass an insane, rambling homeless man on the street, it's best to ignore him; but if he has a gun pointed at you, it would be stupid to keep ignoring him.

    oops, didn't know HTML code was working on this, here's what I quoted mike about:

    Calling attention to nuts is exactly what the nuts want, be they domestic or foreign nuts.

    In this country, we have the "911 inside job conspiracy theorists", among others. There's more of them than you think. I know two of them. Olbermann doesn't talk about them either. Does that mean he support them too?

    I'm beginning to think you are obsessed with Iran and it's nutball president.

    OK, let me ask YOU; What would you have us do about the Holocaust Conference or all the other equally offensive brainwashing that is also going on over there?

    Talking it to death won't make it go away either.
    ^Mike


    So you're one who thinks it's ok for Americans to be ignorant of the world around us? Just curious.
    ^Me

    cee,

    Bush and Blair haven't lifted a finger to stop Israel's genocide against the Palestinians. Essentially, they are in prison camps now and being starved, just like the Nazis did to them.

    "Did you know the major reason that Hizballoh had so much support among the Lebanese people? It was because they understand the concept of "winning the hearts and minds of the people". They supported these poor people socially, gave them medical care, and rebuilt their houses. Hizballoh could not have become embedded and fight Israel to a standstill the way they did if they had not won this popular support. These are simple hard facts and are in no way 'support' of Hizballoh.

    So you see, we could have learned something from our enemies about how to win hearts and minds. That is exactly where we have failed in Iraq."


    Mike... What do you think we've been doing in Iraq? My uncle works for the embassy there and sends me stories almost every day about the good things americans are trying to do. For instance have you heard about the marines that saved a baby girl?

    ack, this site's format has been giving me fits. Here's the link to that story:
    href="http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/HolidayTheme/story?id=2707099&page=1

    The Beatles had their "Magical Mystery Tour".
    George Bush has his Magical "Listening" Tour.
    The Decider is on a listening tour.
    How funny is that !
    George Bush, who is hearing from every possible source how disasterous his policies have been in Iraq, is hearing something he hasn't heard in 6 years: A difference of opinion !
    Bush has always done the most dangerous thing a president can do: Surround himself and create an atmosphere where divergent views were not only unwelcome, but you could be shown the door if you gave them.
    I feel that this is one of the main reasons why his has been the worst presidency in my lifetime, and I'm in my 50's.
    So Bush will listen to how bad Iraq is, how mangled his policies have been, confer with his speech writers ...and then come on national TV and say:
    "Well, I finally did what everyone has told me to do..I've listened and since I'm the Decider, I've decided to .....drum roll .......
    Stay the Course !"

    You watch. Even though the American people spoke in the last election. Even though every right winger he has come in contact with told him Iraq needs a drastic change, Chimpy will not budge.
    As he said once before," Even if Laura and Barney are the last ones who believe in my policies, I'm not going to change ."
    An intelligent man knows that when you keep doing the same action over and over again and get the same result, only a fool would not change.
    Bush has been accused of a lot of things, but
    no one has ever accused George Bush of being an intelligent man !

    Finally we have someone to blame for the War in Iraq.
    ( other than it's chief architect)
    Of all the pressing problems and failures this country has seen , the right has come up with another scapegoat. According to Michele Malkin, the reason we are in such dire straits is....
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Gwyneth Paltrow !
    I guess Gwyneth Paltrow is now responsible for the tens thousands of deaths, the weakening of our environmental laws, the massive debt we have,the widening of the rich and the poor in this country.
    Nope Michele Malkin couldn't find anyone else to blame, so she is now lamblasting Ms. Paltrow for having the audacity to say that she'd rather live in England and raise her child there because it's a more civilized country.
    How dare she !
    The right is in total desperation mode these days after they had their head handed to them in the past election.
    For further proof,all you need is listen to the right wingers at this site who are still in total denial over the Bush presidency and the War in Iraq.
    Thank God they are now ( in the most recent poll)in the 27% category.
    Their numbers keep dwindling because if you keep trying the same thing over and over with the same results, even Jethro knows it's time to change course !

    replace Taliban with Taliban Leadership. Now shut your ignorant trap Anon. You liberals coming here are such simpltons.

    "The main power broker in the Middle East, Iran, holds a state endorsed conference to research the fraud that was the 20th century pogram against a group of people based on their religion, and not even a five minute analysis of the obvious impact this has on the current difficulties in the region."

    Cross-post:

    Maybe because only a MORON believes the Holocaust never happened. If they convened a panel to say the sky is green, despite all evidence to the contrary, is there news value in that?

    "We need not waste time or effort answering the deniers' contentions. It would be never-ending to respond to arguments posed by those who freely falsify findings, quote out of context and simply dismiss reams of testimony. Unlike true scholars, they have little, if any, respect for data or evidence. Their commitment is to an ideology and their 'findings' are shaped to support it." - Deborah Lipstadt, author, Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault On Truth And Memory

    Excerpted From Newsbusters.org...Proof of Olby's dimwittedness-

    "On Monday's Countdown, while reporting on the controversial decision of the Seattle-Tacoma Airport to remove its Christmas trees from public view rather than display a Menorah, MSNBC's Keith Olbermann mocked FNC host Bill O'Reilly by jokingly suggesting that O'Reilly supports a "war against Hanukkah." Olbermann, who since last year has mocked O'Reilly and other FNC hosts as "fat heads" for their concerns about a "War on Christmas" by secularists, jokingly commented, referring to Bill O'Reilly disparagingly as "Billow": "Generalissimo O'Reilly remains upbeat. Look not on this as a defeat in the war on Christmas. This was a dramatic victory in Billow's new war against Hanukkah." Ironically, less than 20 minutes earlier on The O'Reilly Factor, host O'Reilly had spoken approvingly of displaying a Menorah at the airport as he interviewed the rabbi who had requested it. The FNC host was quite sympathetic to the rabbi's viewpoint as he lambasted the airport's decision not to allow a Menorah display. O'Reilly: "There is no reason not to put up a Menorah in the Sea-Tac Airport because Hanukkah is a celebrated holiday, and, you know, Americans of Jewish faith would like to see it, and it's in context, so put it up." ...


    Read the whole story at:
    http://newsbusters.org/node/9600

    Keith's unhealthy infatuation with BO continues...what will tomorrow bring...an apology...a correction...another attack?

    As Ronald Reagan used to say, Cee, "there you go again".
    Cee continues to reveal his anger , hatred and desperation towards anyone who disagrees with his archaic ideas.

    "I will always respect these two great leaders for their courage to do what is right in the face of cowardly advice and continued hatred by the left."

    Yes Cee...You respect the two leaders who have collaborated to destabilize the Middle East, attack a country that didn't attack us,and cause the deaths in the tens of thousands of innocent people.
    And then you blame the people who have had no power and no responsibility for any of the deadly decisions made in thepast 6 years: the hated left !
    You made it very clear yesterday with your incoherent rants who you blame for everything.
    The people least responsible!
    You see, Cee, your hatred of the the "radical left"( who in your mind now include people like Ed Meese and James Baker. LOL)and your amnesia and blind spot of those in power and causing all the problems make you a pitiful figure.
    A person so torn up that all he knows to do is to lash out in hatred and anger.
    Unfortunately your anger and hatred is misplaced.
    But no one will ever be able to enlighten a dead, closed mind, such as your own.

    Bob, why attack Malkin? I read Malkin and she did not blame Paltrow for Americas problems. Malkin pointed out how Paltrow is a snobby little rich bitch. A quote from Malkin

    "In the end, I suppose it doesn't matter whether the Portuguese paper filched the Guardian's quotes or whether Paltrow just goes jet-setting around the world rehashing her same old bigoted talking points. It's a useful reminder of what a shallow ingrate the average Hollywood expatriate is. Without all that filthy American money, Gwynnie would still be stuck here in the States known as that miserable blonde girl with a New York mansion who used to be engaged to Brad Pitt--instead of that smug blonde girl with a London mansion married to a moonbat who makes a living trashing the capitalistic society that puts food in their children's mouths."

    So Bob is Paltrow a spoiled rich bitch that you admire? Do you agree with her assement of the USA? Could you give a quote from Malkin with a link that shows Malkin blamed Paltrow for the Iraq and enviromental policy? Could it be that you just made shit up Olblermann style??

    Anonymous at December 12, 2006 10:32 AM,

    Don't ask Bob for proof...he will bring out 116 UN approved scientists to show he is right and ignore anything (like your direct quote from MM) that goes against is or simply ridicule it if he does acknowledge it at all

    Olbermann doesn't apologize to anyone about anything ever. It's his own little special world in which he is always right. Remember, he answers to no one and doesn't even know who Dan Abrams is or what he has to do with MSNBC's programming. That's our KO: a team player-NOT! And once again, he wants to remind you he's not a liberal. Oh no, he doesn't even vote (so he claims). Wonder what else he lies about? because as documented here repeatedly, he's quite in the habit of lying on a daily basis on the show he calls a news show but which we all know is one giant opinion-fest.

    Anon doesn't understand IRONY.
    I made my point that Of all the problems HER PARTY AND PRESIDENT SHE BLINDLY SUPPORTS haVE created in the world, the thing that really riles her is : Gywneth Paltrow.
    Why? B/c she said she'd rather live in England, b/c it's a more civilized country.
    Malkin would just as soon blame Donald Duck or Peewee Herman than the ones really responsibilty for the problems we face.
    That appears to be the right's MO.Place blame everywhere but squarely where it belongs !

    Bob, you said:
    "Yes Cee...You respect the two leaders who have collaborated to destabilize the Middle East, attack a country that didn't attack us,and cause the deaths in the tens of thousands of innocent people."
    -----------------------------------
    It should be pointed out that Iraq was behind the 90's bombing of the WTC and an attempted assination of former president Bush I. So actually they have been attacking us off and on over the years.

    Oh, and the death of innocent people has been lower than it was under the rule of Saddam.

    Bob-

    Ok, you apply that kind of judgement to MM...do you apply it to Olby?

    He routinely lists BO or FoxNews Watch(for spelling his name wrong) or the Headline News exec (for putting glenn beck on the air) as his worst persons in the world and yet no actual killers, rapists, molesters or leaders in the vein of Kim Il Jong or MA from Iran or Hezzbollah for bombing innocent civilians instead of attacking troops.

    I eargerly await your condemnation of Olby

    "Of all the pressing problems and failures this country has seen , the right has come up with another scapegoat. According to Michele Malkin, the reason we are in such dire straits is....
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Gwyneth Paltrow !"

    So now I don't understand IRONY?? When you make shit up Olbermann style you claim you are misunderstood. Is it the IRONY that prevents a direct quote?? Do you agree that England is more civilized? Again Malkin did not blame Paltrow for Americas domestic or foriegn policy, Malkin pointed out that Paltrow is a snobby rich bitch that does not think that Americans are civilized or interesting, that includes you, your friends and your family.

    I find the clowns at this site obsession with calling the left antisemitic, KO a liar etc just hysterical.
    The thing that really sticks in your crawl is that Keith Olbermann does speak the truth each night on his prime time show that you are so envious of.
    And the fact that he may not discuss the issues YOU right wing loons want him to discuss further enrages you.
    Keith Olbermann speaks for many in America who have grown tired of the weak kneed so called liberal press who have been afraid to report that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
    And since you righties get your so called news from the official propaganda news station of the White House, Fox News, it really pisses you off to start hearing the truth about your country and your leader.
    Just the fact that this site exists demonstrates the power Keith Olbermann has in today's society.
    Keep telling it like it is , Keith, because the more you enlighten the masses the more it pisses off these idiots, and the happier it makes me.

    I find the clowns at this site obsession with calling the left antisemitic, KO a liar etc just hysterical.
    The thing that really sticks in your gut is that Keith Olbermann does speak the truth each night on his prime time show that you are so envious of.
    And the fact that he may not discuss the issues YOU right wing loons want him to discuss further enrages you.
    Keith Olbermann speaks for many in America who have grown tired of the weak kneed so called liberal press who have been afraid to report that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
    And since you righties get your so called news from the official propaganda news station of the White House, Fox News, it really pisses you off to start hearing the truth about your country and your leader.
    Just the fact that this site exists demonstrates the power Keith Olbermann has in today's society.
    Keep telling it like it is , Keith, because the more you enlighten the masses the more it pisses off these idiots, and the happier it makes me.

    Keep telling it like it is , Keith, because the more you enlighten the masses the more it pisses off these idiots, and the happier it makes me.

    Posted by: Bob at December 12, 2006 11:00 AM

    Time to move on from Malkin? Are you done TELLING IT LIKE IT IS about Malkin and Paltrow?

    But bob...what about my 1053 am post?

    or for that matter my 1028 am post

    Do you agree that England is more civilized? Again Malkin did not blame Paltrow for Americas domestic or foriegn policy, Malkin pointed out that Paltrow is a snobby rich bitch that does not think that Americans are civilized or interesting, that includes you, your friends and your family.

    No..the rich snobby bitch is Malkin.Malkin has made her living blasting liberals. Blasting the people least responsible for the horrors in Iraq and the problems we face in America the past 6 years.

    Malkin is a partisan hack.

    Do I think that England is more civilized than America?
    America has more killings by guns in one day than England has in over a year.
    They did a study that ranked the countries of the world in the most important issues.
    America ranks 53rd in infant mortality rate.60th in literacy and 85th in overall freedom.
    While you are raising that big #1 finger in the air like you see at football games, America is slipping further and further behind many countries in the world.
    I would love to think we have the "best " country in the world but when we are evaluated on issues that really matter,the truth is a bitter pill to swallow.
    Isn't it ?

    Benson,

    Even rewriting what you posted doesn't help. The Taliban still controls large areas in Afghanistan and is moving into Pakistan.

    Don't get cranky because you are wrong. Just admit it as if you were a man.

    Benson,

    Even rewriting what you posted doesn't help. The Taliban still controls large areas in Afghanistan and is moving into Pakistan.

    Don't get cranky because you are wrong. Just admit it as if you were a man.

    Vaguity again Anon- you try to rewrite history. The Taliban was the ruling class in afganistan. Not anymore. Sure there are sections that the taliban is present, but outside of the major cities. So quit whining and trying to degrade a Bush accomplishment. You just are so 'ignant'. Thats why you are another dumb democrat. You should get around more. Pick your fights better.

    Malkin is a partisan hack

    but you admit that Olby is partisan, but its great

    hypocrisy much?

    CNN) -- An estimated 2 million babies die within their first 24 hours each year worldwide and the United States has the second worst newborn mortality rate in the developed world, according to a new report.

    American babies are three times more likely to die in their first month as children born in Japan, and newborn mortality is 2.5 times higher in the United States than in Finland, Iceland or Norway, Save the Children researchers found.

    Only Latvia, with six deaths per 1,000 live births, has a higher death rate for newborns than the United States, which is tied near the bottom of industrialized nations with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia with five deaths per 1,000 births.

    Yeah...We're #1....NOT.
    And you blame Gwyneth Paltrow for saying England is more civilized than America.
    She is absolutely correct.
    And you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Malkin is a partisan hack

    but you admit that Olby is partisan, but its great

    hypocrisy much?

    My exact quote was Olbermann tells it like it is.
    Read much ?
    Fred Bear is a great example of the poor literacy rate in this country.

    Liberal people- please send people to this website that are smarter than you. Your comments and left-blog-cut-and-paste is getting ripped apart here way too often. You make liberals look more like idiots rather than the brainwashed scholars I portray you as. Please. -Keith

    "The thing that really sticks in your gut is that Keith Olbermann does speak the truth each night on his prime time show. . ."

    Oh, tell us more about the "truth" that Orange Boy brings us on a nightly basis Bob. How about the loony 2004 "stolen vote" in Ohio "story" that Olby kept harping on night after night weeks after the election, even after the usual liberal mouthpieces such as the NYT, WaPo and LATimes dropped it, realizing that this left wing stolen vote claptrap was complete and utter nonsense. But not left wing fringe cheerleading Olby!

    Oh and tell us more, Bob about the "truth" that Olby kept blabbering about night after night a couple months ago when he kept insisting that Rove's idictment was imminent and paraded guest after guest on his show, not to discuss if Rove would be indicted but how many counts and how long his trial would last. Orange Boy isn't a truth teller. He is a tool for the blue blogs. HIs "click and rip" technique of lifting all his stories off blue blogs and regurgitating them is so patently transparent, it is beyond debate.

    If your looking for truth Bob, you need to look someplace other than Meltdown.


    United States, which is tied near the bottom of industrialized nations with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia with five deaths per 1,000 births.

    Yeahhhhhhhh..we're tied for the bottom with Eastern European countries.

    and the fact that America has more deaths by guns in a day than England has in a year.

    And you question why Paltrow doesn't want to raise her children in America.

    Of course you do...b/c you are blind to the realities in this country.

    Then move losers. I am a proud american that finds losers like anonymous and bob to be a big part of the problem. My favorite freedom in the US? Not 'freedom of speech"! Its ythe 'freedom to pack up and get your ass out of this country'. Try Mexico... Try Bolivia.... Try Iraq. Just leave. Its your right!

    Bob...

    Did I use quotes? No......

    From that and other posts you have made you clearly imply that Olby speaks for the left and you are happy about that (compared to the "weak kneed so called liberal press").

    Hence, in your eyes apparently a right wing partisan is a hack while a left wing partisan is OK.

    Reading comprehension is involved here Bob, not just reading the words. Or are you the example of poor reading comprehension in our country?


    PS: Still waiting for a reply to 1053am as calling MM a partisan hack does not answer the query posed to you.

    Dear Ms. Woose,

    Facts are facts, young lady. The Taliban may only control half of Afghanistan, but that is far cry from Benson's redic being wiped out; in fact, recently the UN has determined that Pakistan is letting them move about freely in a large section of their country.

    Try not being stupid. Someone might hit you on the back of the head and you'll remain that way.

    Even after the usual liberal mouthpieces such as the NYT, WaPo and LATimes dropped it, realizing that this left wing stolen vote claptrap was complete and utter nonsense. But not left wing fringe cheerleading Olby!

    Complete and utter nonsense eh ?

    Nearly half of the 6 million American voters living abroad never received their ballots -- or received them too late to vote -- after the Pentagon unaccountably shut down a state-of-the-art Web site used to file overseas registrations. A consulting firm called Sproul & Associates, which was hired by the Republican National Committee to register voters in six battleground states, was discovered shredding Democratic registrations. In New Mexico, which was decided by 5,988 votes, malfunctioning machines mysteriously failed to properly register a presidential vote on more than 20,000 ballots. Nationwide, according to the federal commission charged with implementing election reforms, as many as 1 million ballots were spoiled by faulty voting equipment -- roughly one for every 100 cast.


    Republicans prevented more than 350,000 voters in Ohio from casting ballots or having their votes counted -- enough to have put John Kerry in the White House.

    Just because MSM outlets dropped the story doesn't mean it didn't happen.

    The only complete and utter nonsense around here is coming out of your mouth !


    Benson,

    I prefer the freedom to make America a better place to live. You prefer the freedom to suck up to whatever neocon is in power.

    It's all good.

    Yeah...We're #1....NOT.
    And you blame Gwyneth Paltrow for saying England is more civilized than America.
    She is absolutely correct.
    And you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Posted by: Bob at December 12, 2006 11:26 AM

    OK I will play along for a short while. What countries is America behind? I see you put infant mortality rate as indicater of civilization, what else is to be used?? Please answer with specific countries that are more civilized, try not to make this into a SPECIAL COMMENT about Bush.

    Again non-listening anon! The Taliban Government is not the ruling class. Saying the Taliban runs around in the Northeast part of Afgansitan makes them still in power is straight wrong. She's right... you are looking dumber every post.

    I keep forgetting how horrible we are in the US. Thankfully we americans have You, Chavez, Wacko Prez in Iran, and Koffi to remind us of how bad we are. Nice crowd you run with.

    From that and other posts you have made you clearly imply that Olby speaks for the left .

    I said,Olby "speaks for many in America."
    You continue to prove your poor reading comprehension.
    It's funny how you keep thinking everyone that realizes Bush has been a terrible president and Iraq has been a disaster and all who voted the GOP out of office to be "the left".

    Anyone to the left of your dismissed and voted out of office.. ideas ...are lefties !
    It should be obvious to you by now that America is moving to the left. They have seen what a failure the right has been !
    You are so far removed from reality it isn't even funny.

    Bob....

    still no answer? waiting...


    Also, please list your sources for these statistics (from your 1146am post) so that they me confirmed...what were the statistics for the preceeding four presidential elections, so that we can compare to see if anything was truly different or if it is a continuing problem inherent to the situation.

    Great Thanks!

    "Popular support for the central government is faltering, and Western military allies are divided over how best to combat the insurgency, they say.
    On the other side of the fight, the Taliban have regained the strength to dominate large swaths of territory, and government control is tenuous in at least 20 percent of the country.
    Militants also have built a network of bases in the tribal hinterlands that straddle the frontier with Pakistan.
    Observers point to an upward trend in violence, including suicide attacks, roadside bombs and border clashes." - Los Angeles Times 12/10/06

    "The Taliban gunmen who murdered two teachers in eastern Afghanistan early Saturday were only following their rules: Teachers receive a warning, then a beating, and if they continue to teach must be killed...
    A purported Taliban spokesman, Qari Yousef Ahmadi, confirmed the authenticity of the rules. He said aid organizations were not working for the Afghan people but for the policies of occupying countries. 'If they won't stop their work we will target them, like we've targeted them in the past,' he said." - Washington Post 12/9/06


    Benson,

    You are a coward. You stated that the Taliban was wiped out; then, you flip-flopped and claimed that its leadership is wiped out. Now, you are trying to prove a point that you never made.

    Must be hard being an ignorant neocon. Wanna learn something?

    "ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- A peace deal between Pakistan's government and Islamic militants in the tribal region of North Waziristan has created a virtual Taliban mini-state where mullahs dispense justice and fighters are launching cross-border attacks into neighboring Afghanistan, a think tank reported Monday..."

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/168741,CST-NWS-pak12.article

    Doesn't sound very wiped out, does it? Or did you mean something different again? English is a trickly language and you have yet to master it.

    Bob... reeeeeaaaaaddddd tttttthhhhhheeee woooorrrrdddssss and comprehend what they mean...

    "from that AND OTHER POSTS YOU HAVE MADE you clearly IMPLY"

    Then you go on and defend & promote the left, which I haven't even attacked.


    ...and STILL no response to 1053am...

    You know if you took away the "cut/paste" option from Anonymous, they'd have nothing left to say.

    Brandon,

    I accept your surrender. Facts hurt neocons, don't they? You post articles to prove points; however, when you have nothing to back you up, you use insults.

    Here's a tip: If you have nothing intelligent to say, don't post. Then, it will always be in doubt.

    "I find the clowns at this site obsession with calling the left antisemitic, KO a liar etc just hysterical.
    The thing that really sticks in your gut is that Keith Olbermann does speak the truth each night on his prime time show that you are so envious of.
    And the fact that he may not discuss the issues YOU right wing loons want him to discuss further enrages you.
    Keith Olbermann speaks for many in America who have grown tired of the weak kneed so called liberal press who have been afraid to report that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
    And since you righties get your so called news from the official propaganda news station of the White House, Fox News, it really pisses you off to start hearing the truth about your country and your leader.
    Just the fact that this site exists demonstrates the power Keith Olbermann has in today's society.
    Keep telling it like it is , Keith, because the more you enlighten the masses the more it pisses off these idiots, and the happier it makes me." First you can talk to Jimmy "peanut" Carter about anti-semetic. Second, just last night KO was caught in another lie. He said BOR was now on a war against Hanukkah when in fact he was praising it.Read back thru the posts to catch the quotes.There were two at least. Third, could care less what KO speaks it's always the same,Bush lied,Bush is evil,Bush is trampling our free speech."Let me bring in some of my left wing buddies to verify". Fourth, BOR called out Dan Rather to come on his show and show him all the proof he has on Fox being a shill for the White House. Fifth, this site exists because KO says he is a non-partisan journalist anchoring a news show.You want to see real propaganda his show is the place to go.This site will cease immediately once Ko says 'I am an analyst with an opinion and I am a liberal".

    Redstate:

    so you think coming simply to make personal attacks against someone's lifestyle you know absolutely nothing about is the way to respond to coherent arguments? Have you run out of 'coherent' arguments?

    I come on here because of my fascination with people who still live in a "state of denial" despite all the evidence that there worldview is crashing down around them....yes, people like Bensen, who just revived the ignorant "America, love it or leave it" rant from the 60's in an earlier post.

    The people who backed the invasion of Iraq were clearly wrong and the ones who had the common sense to stand against the tide and oppose it were right, yet you people continue to attack the leaders who were clearly right and defend to the death the ones who were wrong.

    If we had only listened to the very few wise Republicans like Lincoln Chaffee and the larger group of Democrats who said this would be a big mistake, such as Russ Feingold, just think how much better off we would be, and what a stronger postion America would be in today!....But Noooooo, you people keep right on attacking the Patriotic Americans who actually had the vision to buck the prevailing wind and do the right thing!

    Even if you originally backed Bush's policies because you believed what he said about WMD, etc. in Iraq, it astonishing that you don't NOW feel betrayed by the lies and misinformation that has gotten our nation into deep doo doo!

    Yet you keep defending this failed policy.

    AMAZING!

    Bob seems like a miserable human being. Not too bright. Comes here to speak of 'chimpy' and ' paltrow'. Bob, you have, at least for the time being, replaced o'liely as the most dim contributer to this site. Please get your GED, post haste!!

    To: everyone that believes this:
    "and the fact that America has more deaths by guns in a day than England has in a year."

    The truth is, of course, a lot more complicated but that statement is flat out false.
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1568/is_6_34/ai_93090050

    England has surpassed America in ALL violent crime but murder (and maybe rape, I'd have to check the numbers again) and part of the difference is the fact that the two countries count gun-related homicides with two different methods. England's method leads to a downplay of the stats while America's method leads to an inflation of them.

    So please, learn the truth.

    Thanks Grim for the article by the gun nut. It was very useful for killing three minutes; however, it really didn't offer any statistics or facts outside of a few anecdotes. You deny that America has more gun deaths in a day than England does in a year, but you offer nothing to prove that (certainly the article doesn't).

    How do we learn the truth if you cannot provide it?

    To "I call":

    Acually, Bob's pretty smart. But, like me he occasionally gets caught up providing excessive detail in logical attempts to enlighten closed minds....using FACTS.

    Our mistake, but we believe in America, not party idealogy or meaningless political labels.

    Anon- you just pulled an Olby above. I SAID taliban leadership after you pointed out that the entire taliban was not wiped out. Care to discuss my correction or dwell on a past corrected post. And this 'coward' as you call me would love to punch you in you pacisfist-freedom-toting-face. Call me a coward when you wake up from your fist enduced slumber loser.

    Mike...

    Bob "gets caught up providing excessive detail"?

    We are talking about the same guy right? Bob? The guy who post here?

    I must constantly miss his posts that contain "excessive detail". Could you please direct me?

    I am still waiting for his response to a specific point.

    Here Anonymous (sorry about the article, I just skimmed it). I do love to use findarticles.com because it's very helpful. This time I used "england crime rate" as my search terms.

    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200111/ai_n9014078
    The numbers in this one (just examples, I'm not going to post all of them).
    Both Australia and England have already banned personal ownership of guns, but violent crime is not down in either country. In fact, Poe reports, in Australia violent crime is up in every category. From 1997 to 1999, murders were up 6.5%, and attempted murders rose by 12.5%. Increases were also reported in assaults, kidnappings and armed robberies.

    Things are not much better in the mother country, which ranked second on a list of violent crime "among industrialized nations." No. I on the list is Australia. Meanwhile, the United States, assumed by many to be the most violent of all nations-and a nation in which gun ownership is still possible-isn't even among the top 10.

    Some more: (this one was from a newspaper IN england)
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010223/ai_n14373405
    England and Wales came joint top in the overall rate of offences for 10 types of crimes. Like Australia, they recorded 58 offences for every 100 inhabitants during 1999. Scotland was just above average with a rate of 43 per 100 inhabitants and Northern Ireland was one of the lowest with 24. Japan was the most crime-free area with 23 offences per 100.

    Another article from that newspaper:
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20051021/ai_n15721763

    That's just to get you started. Use those search terms and you should be able to find plenty to clarify mistaken beliefs.

    ^ Ooops, forgot to fill in my name. I'm the anonymous at 0125.

    Benson,

    How sweet! I meant intellectual coward, but the time that I've spent in the ring keeps me from trembling whenever one of you girls gets upset. You have an idea of what Democrats are like that is pretty anachronistic.

    As I explained, the Taliban has leadership in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Islam is a fanatic religion which relies heavily upon religious leaders to tell them how to run their lives (much like neocons). These religious leaders are still there, just not in the capital city.

    All we have done is freed Kabul and put a large portion of Pakistan under the Taliban. Pathetic!

    "Acually, Bob's pretty smart. But, like me he occasionally gets caught up providing excessive detail in logical attempts to enlighten closed minds....using FACTS."

    Bob was trying to say Paltrow was right in saying America was not civilized. He then gave us the FACTS about infant mortality rates and gun death rates.

    Yeah...We're #1....NOT.
    And you blame Gwyneth Paltrow for saying England is more civilized than America.
    She is absolutely correct.
    And you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Posted by: Bob at December 12, 2006 11:26 AM

    Still waiting to enlightened with FACTS as where America stands. A FACT that I do know is that I beleive America is the best society in the world to live. Not perfect but the best none the less.

    Thanks Grim,

    You, unlike the others on this board, actually seem to want an intelligent debate.

    I still don't see anything on gun deaths in England and in the United States. I already knew how violent England is...the women probably commit more assaults than American males, but it is the gun deaths that interest me.

    Should we have killed the all? Plowed through cities and hand picked all those Talibanettes and executed them? Of couse not. Of course they will exist. Just as there are Nazis throughout the world today. They are minimized- just like you after your ignorant posts. And some day Al Queda will be minimalized too.

    By the way- the poster child of a 'coward' on any blog is the use of the name 'anonymous.' Are yu afraid to at least put a nickname to your leftist propoganda? I wish OlbyWatch would not allow posts without a name. Then coward like anon may have to use some creativity beyond the cut-and-paste

    Still waiting to enlightened with FACTS as where America stands. A FACT that I do know is that I beleive America is the best society in the world to live. Not perfect but the best none the less.

    No....When you say YOU BELIEVE...that is called an OPINION. Obviously you don't know the differce between a fact and an opinion.

    I presented facts on things that could be measured..such as infant mortality, literacy and overall freedom.

    Oh wait,

    Now I see why you don't bother using a name.

    Poor leftard Bob....can't directly address my points with regard to the continuing terrorism against Israel and the United States. Once again, to the left, America is to blame for everything.

    Well, you're wrong. If Iran and Syria decided not to support Palestinian and Iraqi terrorism, the death toll in the region would nose dive. Is this true or not. Bob?

    Is terrorism an acceptable tool, Bob?

    Hello?

    Innocent men, women and children are being killed by who, Bob? Right now, today, in Iraq... who is responsible for the death today?

    Simple questions even for a simpleton like Bob....I wonder if he'll get them right?

    This article (that I've posted before but am singling out this time)
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1568/is_6_34/ai_93090050

    Really does give a lot of the numbers. I advise pulling up the print version where you can go over the entire thing on one page. Relevent sections:

    Gun crime is just part of an increasingly lawless environment. From 1991 to 1995, crimes against the person in England's inner cities increased 91 percent. And in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime more than doubled. Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times greater than in New York. England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are far higher than America's, and 53 percent of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police. In a United Nations study of crime in 18 developed nations published in July, England and Wales led the Western world's crime league, with nearly 55 crimes per 100 people.
    ----------------------
    The murder rates of the U.S. and U.K. are also affected by differences in the way each counts homicides. The FBI asks police to list every homicide as murder, even if the case isn't subsequently prosecuted or proceeds on a lesser charge, making the U.S. numbers as high as possible. By contrast, the English police "massage down" the homicide statistics, tracking each case through the courts arid removing it if it is reduced to a lesser charge or determined to be an accident or self-defense, making the English numbers as low as possible.
    -----------------------------
    As a result the English and American murder rates are converging. In 1981 the American rate was 8.7 times the English rate, in 1995 it was 5.7 times the English rate, and the latest study puts it at 3.5 times.
    ----------------------
    Think about it: even with England's data gathering method (which would push their numbers lower than america's), the rate difference between the two nations is falling.

    You know when an artifically inflated and an artifically low number are closing the gap between them, things must be bad.

    Seriously, read through that entire article and thank the founders for the 2nd amendment. ;-)

    Benson,

    Half of Afghanistan and new advances in Pakistan is far from being minimalized. Perhaps the definition of the word was changed while I slept, but I doubt it.

    In reality, Bush left Afghanistan half done. Perhaps Noel Bush needed the cheap heroin, who knows. But, the reality is that the Taliban is far stronger than Karzai can handle.

    Or perhaps you can explain the record opium production?

    Gun deaths and infant mortality are the only two stats that determine where a country ranks civilization-wise?


    So the Ottoman Empire and Khan's leadership in the orient were extremely civilized? At least in half of the determination, since there were absolutely NO GUN DEATHS during eithers reign. Now if we can only find their infant mortality rates...

    Bob...

    still waiting for a response (1053am)....

    how do you measure the rate of overall freedom ?(141pm)

    Gun deaths and infant mortality are the only two stats that determine where a country ranks civilization-wise?

    I also gave overall freedom and literacy.

    That's four !
    Plus there is overall health...guess where America ranks there ?

    65th !

    Those 5 indicators are excellent ways to determine where a civiization ranks.
    I could go on..but I made my point..that saying we are the best in the world...and actually BEING the best in the world....are not the same.

    Facts (stats that can be measured )really gum up your beliefs , don't they ?



    Anon-
    Liberal Talking point- Karzai can't handle the Taliban.
    Bullshit, don't overplay that hand. Troublesome, maybe. But the MAJORITY of Afghanistan is under control. Its like overstating Olbermanns third place ratings as improved.
    Talking Point- Opium production.
    So you say opium production is a sign of a country slipping into chaos. Its simple economics, and you know it. Other than terrorism, opium was one of their biggest exports. It freakin funded the Taliban. It is ridiculous to think the opium production would not continue again. They can't grow corn, but need a resource. Thus opium is back. But you think its a sign of the governemnt slipping. Read a little Anon. Now parts of the country needs Opium to survive. Not because it is funding terrorism there as before.

    You need stronger left talking points. You should refresh your leftist blogging back at another site an come back. You are too predictable.

    Bob, who hates America so much, must have just loved what another hate-america-first lefty had to say last night.....

    "An ethnic studies professor from the University of Colorado, Ward Churchill, received a standing ovation last night from a crowd of more than 200 New School students after blaming the 2001 World Trade Center attacks on America's support of Israel and its sanctions against Iraq in 1996.

    "In a two-hour speech at the New School titled "Sterilizing History: The Fabrication of Innocent Americans," delivered without notes, Mr. Churchill traced what he called a pattern of mass murder as American foreign policy from the time of the country's inception to the events of September 11, 2001, which he said the country was essentially asking for.

    "Mr. Churchill also called the president of the New School, Robert Kerrey, a former senator of Nebraska, a "mass murder and serial killer to boot" for having served in Thanh Phong, Vietnam. Mr. Churchill also served in Vietnam, an act for which he said he has spent the rest of his life apologizing.

    "Mr. Churchill received cheers from the audience for comparing Mr. Kerrey to the serial killer Charles Manson. "That's who you've got moral equivalency in the president's chair at this institution," Mr. Churchill said. "How about a cage rather than a president's suite?""

    Yes, I want the left to run the country.....they are such lovely people!

    anon- I got to cut and run. You probably have no problem with that. TTFN

    "Those 5 indicators are excellent ways to determine where a civiization ranks."

    So where does America rank? How far behind Britian?

    "Those 5 indicators are excellent ways to determine where a civiization ranks."

    Actually... I'm more curious as to how those statistics are gathered.

    Gun deaths and infant mortality (is abortion being counted with this?) are easy enough to measure but how exactly is:
    "overall freedom and literacy"
    "Plus there is overall health"

    Are measured?

    I'm curious as to how these are measured.

    You don't provide facts, Mike, you constantly blubber and complain. And you STILL defend Olbermann's decision to not run any stories on the Holocaust story.

    What are your ideas for the future? More troops (I endorse the McCain/100,000 additional troops idea instead of focusing on the past like you do)

    And why do you have so much time that you're on here posting late into the night, wake up, and the first thing you do (well, probably the second) is run to computer to enlighten us at 7:00 AM.

    You truly are the King of Kings...

    From....

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06346/745336-237.stm

    The "Countdown With Keith Olbermann" host says, "I'm not a liberal, I'm an American."

    Oh boy. Now I have heard everything.

    Lies.

    Bob...

    still waiting for a response (1053am)....

    how do you measure the rate of overall freedom ?(141pm)


    I'm not your trained monkey...I discuss and respond to what I feel like , when I feel like it.
    Plus I do have a life, maybe unlike yourself.

    But I'll indulge you the best I can here...
    I wasn't privy to all the indicators and how the study came up with every factor.

    With the right wing shaking pom poms over our government listening in on our private conversations,the Patriot Act creating new, extremely vague definitions of terrorism that could be used against organized labor and civil rights and other democratic movements and organizations. The Patriot Act also allows the government greatly enhanced surveillance powers, including much easier access to our personal medical, business and library records.Plus the eroding of checks and balances, weakening habeous corpus etc.,

    However they measured overall freedom these and other factors I'm sure were taken into account.Under this president and republican leadership our freedoms have taken a huge hit.

    It is no surprise that we aren't the freest country in the world any longer...not by a long shot...and this study confirmed it.

    Bob, who hates America so much,

    Cee...you're an idiot...a 100% proof idiot.
    You just make things up.

    I have never stated anything even close....and I do lament that my country has fallen so far down the list in the areas I've been listing.

    I love my country... but I do hate what the Republicans have done to it...Remember who has had the power the past 6 years !!!!!!!

    Thank God many feel the same way as me and voted the source of the problem outtahere !

    But unlike yourself..I won't make excuses and carry water for the people bringing this country down.

    "And you STILL defend Olbermann's decision to not run any stories on the Holocaust story."

    Reposting from earlier (please read this time):

    Maybe because only a MORON believes the Holocaust never happened. If they convened a panel to say the sky is green, despite all evidence to the contrary, is there news value in that?

    "We need not waste time or effort answering the deniers' contentions. It would be never-ending to respond to arguments posed by those who freely falsify findings, quote out of context and simply dismiss reams of testimony. Unlike true scholars, they have little, if any, respect for data or evidence. Their commitment is to an ideology and their 'findings' are shaped to support it." - Deborah Lipstadt, author, Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault On Truth And Memory

    People like you bring this country down, Bob. Volunteer (I do), contribute to building a community, offer solutions to problems instead of focusing solely on the past. Ranting on a message board all day (I visit twice a day for a few minutes just to read something different) is not healthy, and eventually all of the negativity and hate will completely consume you.

    benson,

    You've offered nothing in the way of proof; in fact, by your logic, Karzai must advocate opium production.

    Why not, just once, produce a fact that you can back up?

    No I don't make things up, Bob.

    Like Mr. Churchill who is part of your cadre, you see America as the source of the world's ills. You never post anything that comes close to truth about the policies of the current administration. All your posts ARE anti-American liberal drivel.

    Your radical minority in this country, that includes such nuts as Mr. Churchill, are currently deluded in thinking that the small minority shift in the congress is a mandate for your tired and failed social and foreign policies.

    As Olbermann says, "WRONGO!"

    I can at least be happy in the fact that the executive branch is still in the hands of a sane group of adults not beholden to a radical minority of dead-heads who don't know right from wrong. Also, I sleep well at night knowing the moonbats do not have a filibuster proof majority in The Senate.

    Thank you Joe Lieberman for a voice in the wilderness known as the radical Democratic Party.

    "The Zionists have used the Holocaust as a weapon to deny the rights of the Palestinians and cover up the crimes of Israel.

    "The Holocaust is the device used as the pillar of Zionist imperialism, Zionist aggression, Zionist terror and Zionist murder."


    ###
    So I heard previously on this post by Anon, and Bob seems to agree as well...those nasty Israelies!

    Funny how the lefties are actually agreeing with DAVID DUKE! (his quote)

    And it seems this gathering of haters is of some signifigance, since EVERY major leader is condemning the conference....Let's see if Herr Olbermann, the left's best buddy, mentions it tonight......

    "Earlier this year, Ahmadinejad described the Holocaust as a "myth" that has been used to impose the state of Israel on the Arab world and called for Israel to be wiped off the map.

    ""Ahmadinejad's Holocaust comment opened a new window in international relations on this issue. Twenty years ago, it was not possible to talk about [the] Holocaust and any scientific study was subject to punishment. This taboo has been broken, thanks to Mr. Ahmadinejad's initiative," Georges Theil of France told conference delegates on Tuesday."

    So Bob....as the libs representative here on OW....Did the Holocaust occur?

    cee:

    "So Bob....as the libs representative here on OW....Did the Holocaust occur?"

    Do you guys practice being this bull-headed, or is it a natural talent?

    Denying the Holocaust is like denying the sky is blue - you can try to make the argument, but the weight of evidence and facts (including thousands of documents seized when Germany was defeated) will bring the argument to a crashing halt.

    The only people who practice Holocaust denial are cranks and crackpots who want to "revise" history to fit their already-determined conclusion. Any scholar will tell you that this is the *opposite* of true historical research - true historical research examines the facts and then draws conclusions from the facts.

    To acknowledge the deniers is to give them a whiff of legitimacy they do not deserve.

    "With the right wing shaking pom poms over our government listening in on our private conversations,the Patriot Act creating new, extremely vague definitions of terrorism that could be used against organized labor and civil rights and other democratic movements and organizations. The Patriot Act also allows the government greatly enhanced surveillance powers, including much easier access to our personal medical, business and library records.Plus the eroding of checks and balances, weakening habeous corpus etc.,"

    Bob...
    The Patriot Act adds nothing new to government investigations that the FBI (and other's) haven't been able to do against mobsters for years.

    Yes you read that right, the provisions of the patriot act have been around LONG before Bush, they are just now being able to be applied in terrorism cases.

    Also I have to wonder, people who often say... well pretty much what you just did, complain about Bush not implementing ALL of the 9/11 comission's recommendations. Well... quite a few of those recommendations are in the patriot act.

    I'm also curious what checks and balances have been removed and what's been done to habeous corpus lately. Care to clarify?

    Cee said: "I can at least be happy in the 'fact' that the executive branch is in the hands of a sane group of adults":

    My God, how you have deluded yourself!!!

    I'm not even certain the fate of my country can survive being in the hands of this band of lunatics for two more looonnnggg years!

    A LEADER of a major country holds to this "crackpot" idea....And an overlooked fact by liberals is that most radical muslims believe it as well....I would say that is a dangerous things and should not be ignored.

    Unless you are an American liberal who has to say such things because those they support want Israel to cease existing.

    "My God, how you have deluded yourself!!!

    I'm not even certain the fate of my country can survive being in the hands of this band of lunatics for two more looonnnggg years!"

    Mike, how about we make a deal?

    If you're right and the country falls apart, I'll buy you a drink amongst the ruins (you can come to my state, we're in such an out-of-the-way place, we'll be the last to fall). If it doesn't, you owe me a round.

    Sound good?

    Bob....

    well half is better than nothing...I am glad to see you say you have no idea how they measured overall freedom...this would be unmeasurable or at the very least highly subjective based on the particular items you throw in (freedom to vote = freedom to choose your docctor = freedom to purchase greasy foods...etc)...the same is true for "overall health"

    PLUS...
    Bob-

    Ok, you apply that kind of judgement to MM...do you apply it to Olby?

    He routinely lists BO or FoxNews Watch(for spelling his name wrong) or the Headline News exec (for putting glenn beck on the air) as his worst persons in the world and yet no actual killers, rapists, molesters or leaders in the vein of Kim Il Jong or MA from Iran or Hezzbollah for bombing innocent civilians instead of attacking troops.

    I eargerly await your condemnation of Olby

    Posted by: Fred Bear at December 12, 2006 10:53 AM

    or do you simply want to ignore it as it proves your hypocrisy?

    Where do any of you radical right wingers, get the idea that "Liberals deny the Holocaust", or that they 'support' anyone who does, or that they are "against Israel".

    Anyone who says that are twisting FACTS...again. The only thing you guys do well.

    The real problem is that you people see the world in such simplistic and absolute terms. It's always us vs them....good vs evil....right vs wrong....on vs off.....etc. Nothing 'positive' can ever be said about anyone who is 'bad', or that is seen as 'support'. There is no such thing as shades of grey or nuance in your world.

    How tragic for the world that your minds work like that!

    by the way KO spiked the stroy that the sky is blue

    "The real problem is that you people see the world in such simplistic and absolute terms. It's always us vs them....good vs evil....right vs wrong....on vs off.....etc. Nothing 'positive' can ever be said about anyone who is 'bad', or that is seen as 'support'. There is no such thing as shades of grey or nuance in your world.

    How tragic for the world that your minds work like that!"
    ------------------------
    Mike, I'm confused. (did someone 'steal' your identity on this blog?)

    Earlier you posted:
    ------------------------
    "My God, how you have deluded yourself!!!

    I'm not even certain the fate of my country can survive being in the hands of this band of lunatics for two more looonnnggg years!"
    ------------------------
    Now, it could be me, but there doesn't seem much positive in there about the current administration (whome you seem to imply is 'bad'). In fact, both sentence seem to completely lack shades of gray and nuance. Did I miss them? Did your mind encounter a moment of tragedy?

    Hey Mike....go over to a so-called "mainstream" liberal blog....

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com

    and see where the left is on this issue.....square with the radical islamists like Iran.

    No nuance there.....Israel is black.....then guess who is white?

    Same with Jimmy Carter....he is spinning his anti-Semitic views into something he feels is, "mainstream." Bottom line is though....Israel is wrong.....then guess who is right?

    A quote from one of those smart libs:

    "Here we go again holding Israels hand while they tiptoe through the World.
    I don't know the extent of the Holacaust, but I am forece fed the official story ad naseum.
    I don't care about The Holacaust.....let it go.....EVERYBODY stop persecuing your neighbors.
    Olmert has admitted he controls his nukes...let these TRIBES settle this among themselves.
    Alternatively we can move all the Israelis to Connecticut to be neighbors with Joe & Hadassah & Hillary."

    ###
    The Democratic party tried to throw out Joe Lieberman for goodness sake! Unlike you, Mike, I read the posts of people like kos prior to the election win by Lieberman (BTWthe only Dem I ever voted for) and they were as anti-Semitic as what is being said in Iran today.

    Good luck with that.

    Olbermann will show us what he really thinks.

    I wish the term "liberal" had not been co-opted by the left.

    There is nothing wrong with being liberal. But liberality has little to do with the anide, intolerant arrogance of some hard leftists.

    "My way or the highway" is not liberal, regardless of which side it comes from.

    I wish the term "liberal" had not been co-opted by the left.

    There is nothing wrong with being liberal. But liberality has little to do with the anide, intolerant arrogance of some hard leftists.

    "My way or the highway" is not liberal, regardless of which side it comes from.

    Sorry for accidentally posting my comment twice. It's a good point, but not THAT good.

    Challenger:

    - I see peril in a mounting National Debt our children may not even be able to pay.

    - I see peril in much of this debt being assummed by a very powerfull poential future enemy like China, among others.

    - I see peril in a Neocon Middle East Policy that has virtually polarized almost all Muslems of that region into choosing sides against us. It didn't have to be this way.

    - I see peril in being almost totally dependent on foreign oil, most of which is coming from the very region Bush is doing his best Polarize.

    - I see Iraq potentially exploding into a regional war that we cannot stop or control in any way.

    - I see danger from within because our leaders choose to monkey with cherished principals and documents such as Habeas Corpus, free speech, The Constitution, and the Geneva Convention.

    - I see peril in the our own internal divide between left and right that has been created by divisionist policies of someone who once sold himself as a "uniter".

    - I see peril from continued overeaction to admittantly very real external threats such as Islamic Extremism. Overeaction or the wrong reaction can be worse than no reaction, as we have proven in Iraq.

    - I see peril in a leader who sees the world as either black or white, us vs them, "you are with us or against us".

    - I see grave danger in following any leader who has deluded himself into believing he is doing God's will.

    - I could go on and on.

    All of these things were either caused or agravated by Bush's one sided confrontational policies. Even his father understands that.

    I'm also curious what checks and balances have been removed and what's been done to habeous corpus lately. Care to clarify?

    I'm not surprised that you haven't kept up with Bush eroding our freedoms.To not know or worse, to look the other way is to endanger our nation and weaken our moral and political influence abroad.

    Specifics: On October 17th, George W. Bush, signed into law a bill he bulldozed through Congress that, in Senator Patrick Leahy's prophetic words, would suspend "the writ of habeas corpus, a core value in American law, in order to avoid judicial review that prevents government abuse." This law, whose constitutionality is in doubt and will be reviewed by the Supreme Court in due time, puts so much arbitrary and secret unilateral power IN THE HANDS OF THE PRESIDENCY that the ghost of King George III must be wondering what all the fuss was about in 1776.

    At the signing event,our dear leader called the legislation "a way to deliver justice to the terrorists we have captured." To him all captured subjects are ipso facto convicted terrorists. It is not as if his record gives any credence to such fantasies. But he persists in his deception none the less. Out of nearly 700 prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, he has charged only ten after over four years of detention. Ten! Why? Mostly, as military, civilian lawyers and other monitors have said, because the vast majority of these abused or beaten prisoners were innocent from the day of their apprehension....victims of bounty hunters in Afghanistan and surroundings.

    Maybe you're not aware of each branch of government keeping check on the other, thus our system of CHECKS AND BALANCES.
    Maybe you don't care about that either.
    But...
    The Republicans ( and Democrats) in Congress have permitted this to happen. I hold them both accountable although with the GOP majority this dastardly deed falls squarely at their door and under their leadership.


    How baout the ignorance of Rep. Reyes: Obermann gonna cover this guy's ineptitude? I think not. He takes the 'intelligence' out of "Intelligence Committee"

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Rep. Silvestre Reyes of Texas, who incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has tapped to head the Intelligence Committee when the Democrats take over in January, failed a quiz of basic questions about al Qaeda and Hezbollah, two of the key terrorist organizations the intelligence community has focused on since the September 11, 2001 attacks.

    When asked by CQ National Security Editor Jeff Stein whether al Qaeda is one or the other of the two major branches of Islam -- Sunni or Shiite -- Reyes answered "they are probably both," then ventured "Predominantly -- probably Shiite."

    That is wrong. Al Qaeda was founded by Osama bin Laden as a Sunni organization and views Shiites as heretics.

    Reyes could also not answer questions put by Stein about Hezbollah, a Shiite group on the U.S. list of terrorist organizations that is based in Southern Lebanon.

    And if KeithO doesn't mention such an absurd appointment, it is awesome! He'd devote a whole show if Reyes was a republican!

    Cee:

    No, I believe you are reading what you want to read into what mainstream Liberals believe about Israel.

    As with any radical idealogy...right OR left...taking the extreme position is almost always bad. Yes, there are some roque Liberals out there, just like there are some roque Roght wingers posting on this very site (check out some of Rd Wolf's more inflammatory posts, for example).

    Mike - If you're that worried about oil dependency then you strongly support offshore drilling, and ANWR drilling, and use of coal energy and use of nuclear energy. Right?

    Mike - one other thing. How exactly can you "overreact" to people who are willing to die so that your culture will be ended and you will be either dead or under their lunatic version of shari'a law?

    What is the proper reaction to that?

    Maybe you're not aware of each branch of government keeping check on the other, thus our system of CHECKS AND BALANCES.
    Maybe you don't care about that either.
    ==================================
    Bob, you said that checks and balances are being eroded. But in this same post you JUST said:
    -----------
    "This law, whose constitutionality is in doubt and will be reviewed by the Supreme Court in due time,"
    -----------
    I am aware of the system of checks and balances, and I know it is made up of THREE branches of the government. So if the Supreme Court is going to review (and possibly strike down) this law, it seems to me that checks and balances are working fine.

    I'll just assume then Bob that you were using hyperbole to make a point.

    Onward...
    ==================================
    Specifics: On October 17th, George W. Bush, signed into law a bill he bulldozed through Congress
    ==================================
    Before I address anything else, can you post what the bill and/or law is known as so I can look up it's specific wording and details?

    Bob, you are a liberal hack.

    For over 200 years, the congress and the judiciary CORRECTLY deferred to the executive branch it's constituional duty to manage the execution of war and all of its complicated results.....

    Including the detainment of prisoners of war.

    Only recently have anti-American liberals, like yourself, found in the constitution a check on presidential power when it comes to managing hostilities with foreign adversaries.

    Bob, please quote for me the constitutional article you (or our lovely Supreme Court for that matter) are basing the check/balance on....I would be interested to know it?

    Posted by: Bob at December 12, 2006 04:03 PM

    Ummm, Bob,

    Olby's own guest on that night (or w/in the same week at least) even disagreed with Olby saying it does not disallow habeus corpus for anyone who normally has a right to it.

    Also, if the checks and balances of the government are no longer in place, what was the point of that whole election thing back on 11/7/2006?


    Plus!!!!

    Bob-

    Ok, you apply that kind of judgement to MM...do you apply it to Olby?

    He routinely lists BO or FoxNews Watch(for spelling his name wrong) or the Headline News exec (for putting glenn beck on the air) as his worst persons in the world and yet no actual killers, rapists, molesters or leaders in the vein of Kim Il Jong or MA from Iran or Hezzbollah for bombing innocent civilians instead of attacking troops.

    I eargerly await your condemnation of Olby

    Posted by: Fred Bear at December 12, 2006 10:53 AM

    or do you simply want to ignore it as it proves your hypocrisy?

    AS you continue to ignore this, I can only figure that you agree with me that you are a hypocrite as you berate a person from the right for doing something a person on the left does all the time.

    Thank you for your acquiescence on this matter

    Ken:

    Yes, I do support responsible use of nuclear energy and responsible offshore and ANWR drilling. Always have! A key word is 'responsible'.

    Just because there are people out there who want to kill you doesn't mean they can, or will! Yes, on the whole, we ARE overeacting to this, especailly the right wing alarmists. The world has never been a totally safe place, and never will be, regardless of what we do to try to control things. Many times the 'solution' is worse than the problem (as again, in our Iraq reaction by invading and occupying a country that had nothing to do with 911).

    That's what Bob does Bear....he ignores the posts he knows he can't refute....he is typical "Olbermannian."

    Spike that topic! Spike that story! It goes against what we want the drones to believe, tonight on COUNTDOWN.

    So mike, are you going to take me up on my offer?
    ===================================
    - I see peril in a mounting National Debt our children may not even be able to pay.
    ===================================
    I agree, I wish spending was reduced. However, it's more likely that the economy will collapse from a declining population unless the welfare state decreases by a significant amount.
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2242/is_1674_287/ai_n15950311

    ===================================
    - I see peril in being almost totally dependent on foreign oil, most of which is coming from the very region Bush is doing his best Polarize.
    ===================================
    Agreed, we should immediately start drilling in Alaska. In fact, most ALASKANS want us to go drill for oil up there.

    ===================================
    - I see Iraq potentially exploding into a regional war that we cannot stop or control in any way.
    ===================================
    Well... there are a few ways we could stop it... but they are so very messy. Besides, other countries are exploding into regional wars, why are you so concerned about Iraq?

    ===================================
    - I see danger from within because our leaders choose to monkey with cherished principals and documents such as Habeas Corpus, free speech, The Constitution, and the Geneva Convention.
    ===================================
    Again, I would like examples.

    Oh, and the Geneva Convention ONLY APPLIES to enemy soldiers IN UNIFORM. It does not apply to terrorists or insurgents that fail to follow it to begin with.

    ===================================
    - I see peril in the our own internal divide between left and right that has been created by divisionist policies of someone who once sold himself as a "uniter".
    ===================================
    It's all prez Bush's fault? Sorry, but that's just not true. (See: Clinton)

    Oh, and if you believe we've never been divided, then I suggest you find a US history book to read. The chapter labeled "Civil War" is particulary of interest toward your point there (as is the revolutionary war also...)

    ===================================
    - I see peril from continued overeaction to admittantly very real external threats such as Islamic Extremism. Overeaction or the wrong reaction can be worse than no reaction, as we have proven in Iraq.
    ===================================
    Ok, so we have overeaction by Bush vs no reaction by Clinton. Shall we go into an essay of comparison?

    ===================================
    - I see peril in a leader who sees the world as either black or white, us vs them, "you are with us or against us".
    ===================================
    I'm not as concerned about our leader so much as the ENEMY who sees the world that way. To quote Aragorn: "War is upon you, whether you would risk it or not."

    To use a school yard methaphor, your opinion of a bully doesn't really matter when the bully is pinning you down hitting you.

    For those not aware.....Robert Cox is mentioned in the post gazette.com story on Olbermann.....

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06346/745336-237.stm

    "Robert Cox, a New York businessman, has even started his own anti-Olbermann Web site, "OlbermannWatch.com," where he regularly dissects Olbermann's commentaries and news reports, which he calls sloppily researched."

    BTW, nice quote Robert......congratulations....

    "I happen to like NBC news," says Cox. "I grew up watching it. My sense is, though, that he's undermining the brand of NBC news and the integrity of that organization by not fact-checking stories, lifting material from other Web sites and only putting on guests he agrees with, which is totally irresponsible."


    ###
    I wonder if Olbermann will mention the article tonight? It would be typical of the narcissistic personality disorder he has......but of course he could never mention what his critics had to say!

    Mike -

    You don't say it in so many words, but I'm betting that "resonsible" in your eyes disqualifies any realistic use of these resources. I love when people put a word like this in to make it appear that they have some level of pragmatism/aren't off the end of the earth, but don't indicate their definition of what it means. I have a feeling that, in your case, "responsible" is a metaphor for "whatever the people who would provide this energy can't do".

    As far as Iraq, saddam personally killed more muslims, via his wars on Iran and Kuwait, than any other man on earth. He harbored major terrorists (ramsey yusef and abu nidal are two of the most famous, but there were many, many others). He paid off the families of "successful" suicide/homicide bombers in Israel, he used WMD's on his kurdish population and he starved his own people so the so-called oil for food program could get him more weaponry and new palaces instead. OF COURSE he was part of the war on terrorism.

    And that's before we get to the WMD's that everyone (including every major Democrat) knew he had -- until president Bush DID something about it...then they never heard of them.

    Saddam was given a half year to hide, export or destroy his WMD's. Do you give HIM the benefit of the doubt on whether they were there over President Bush (and President Clinton too, by the way)? What did he ever do as head of Iraq that would make you think he didn't have them? That he wouldn't have moved heaven and earth to make sure he had them?

    H.L. Mencken said it very well: "The men American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try and tell them the truth"

    Mike -

    You don't say it in so many words, but I'm betting that "resonsible" in your eyes disqualifies any realistic use of these resources. I love when people put a word like this in to make it appear that they have some level of pragmatism/aren't off the end of the earth, but don't indicate their definition of what it means. I have a feeling that, in your case, "responsible" is a metaphor for "whatever the people who would provide this energy can't do".

    As far as Iraq, saddam personally killed more muslims, via his wars on Iran and Kuwait, than any other man on earth. He harbored major terrorists (ramsey yusef and abu nidal are two of the most famous, but there were many, many others). He paid off the families of "successful" suicide/homicide bombers in Israel, he used WMD's on his kurdish population and he starved his own people so the so-called oil for food program could get him more weaponry and new palaces instead. OF COURSE he was part of the war on terrorism.

    And that's before we get to the WMD's that everyone (including every major Democrat) knew he had -- until president Bush DID something about it...then they never heard of them.

    Saddam was given a half year to hide, export or destroy his WMD's. Do you give HIM the benefit of the doubt on whether they were there over President Bush (and President Clinton too, by the way)? What did he ever do as head of Iraq that would make you think he didn't have them? That he wouldn't have moved heaven and earth to make sure he had them?

    H.L. Mencken said it very well: "The men American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try and tell them the truth"

    Sorry again...I'm having trouble with this site and have again posted my comment two times. If there's someone who can remove one of them, please do so.


    Ken:

    Why in the hell are you putting words in my mouth concerning my insertion of the word responsible? You are fishing for a reason to take issue with me, arn't you?

    I am NOT a traditional Liberal just because of my stand against international overeaction regarding terrorism, my stand against the war, and my stand against any kind of government over-reaching regarding individual rights. None of these things were EVER conservative stands anyway.

    Resposible means just that. It doesn't mean putting impractical roadblocks in the way. It means taking prudent and responsible steps to avoid spills and a reasonable regard for public safety. Don't you have enough to debate about without picking fights on things we probably don't even disagree about in the first place?

    I have heard ALL of your arguments about Saddam at least a thousand times. There was never compelling enough evidence for WMD even at the time. Anyone who had bothered to look beyond the rhetoric at the time could have seen that. Invading Iraq was about a reaction to 911...it's that simple...even if there were individuals who were already pushing for war prior to 911.

    Hiow many times do you people have to use that stale argument that "even Clinton thought they had WMD" one more time. Clinton didn't invade Iraq, nor do I believe for one minute he would have been that stupid had he still been president!

    You people keep defending the invasion as if those of us against it were concerned about violating SADDAM'S rights. NOT AT ALL! It was a tactical mistake on OUR part that had every advance indication that it could backfire....again, these kind of predictions were being made by Middle East experts at the time....there for anyone who had cared enough to look beyond the rhetoric. I can honestly say I was personally very worried about an insurgency. All the indications were there, and there were plenty of people warning of the pitfalls at the time, but it seems our president was only listening to who he wanted to listen to. Once insurgencies get going, they are historically very difficult to quell.

    I was astonished we failed to learn the right lessons from Vietnam. Because of that, we doomed ourselves to repeat the mistake 30 years later.

    For me it's all about US, and how it has backfired on US. Nothing else.


    Ken:

    You are probably double posting because an error message often comes up the first time. Juswt ignor it. 99% of the time, it posts fine.

    Mike said "Where do any of you radical right wingers, get the idea that "Liberals deny the Holocaust", or that they 'support' anyone who does, or that they are "against Israel".

    How about Jimmy Carter and this "Ahmed Yousuf, chief political advisor to Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, told the Maannews Palestinian news website that Hamas officials met recently with high-ranking American figures, “especially members of the Democratic party.”…
    The source told Maannews the Democrats expressed an understanding with the Hamas principal of not recognizing Israel and applauded Hamas’ willingness to accept a long-term cease-fire with the Jewish state in exchange for an Israeli withdrawal to what is known as the pre-1967 borders – meaning an evacuation of the Gaza Strip, West Bank and eastern sections of Jerusalem"
    Now I am not saying this means they are against Jews.This could be your shades of grey theory or looking for something positive in something bad.But it shows where some might get that idea.I am not a right winger but a Democrat born in Chicago.11th ward, 4 blocks from Mayor Daley.I just hate Libs.Dont care for the far right either. But I wonder why the press has not covered this Holocaut denial with more zeal and contempt.Why is this not on KO's worst person list? My theory is that KO does not want to show that there are really evil people out there that are bigger threats than G.W.That might get people to think G.W.may not be just trying to scare us.Same for most of the press. And I dont want to hear how a blue sky meeting is the same.That would not be dangerous to anyone.How about a KKK meeting that questions if slavery ever existed.You think that KO and the press would cover that? Or just dismiss it as moronic?

    Mike,

    Do you actually have a job? If so, do they pay you by the word? Do you ever stop?

    Oh Ken:

    Saddam was an adversary of AL Queda! They didn't like or trust each other. We did Al Queda a FAVOR by taking him out for them. I have always thought we played right into Al Queda's stategy by overeacting in a way they wanted us to do......a way that they knew would win them much sympathy within the Muslem world. Since when is doing what your enemy wants you to do good strategy?

    Saddam had NOTHING to do with 911 and all of your reasoning to say "of course he was part of the war on terrorism" are very shaky at best.

    Redstate....go s*#@w yourself if you don't have anything to say but make personal attacks. Whether I have a job or not is none of your concern!

    Saddam was an adversary of AL Queda! They didn't like or trust each other. We did Al Queda a FAVOR by taking him out for them. I have always thought we played right into Al Queda's stategy by overeacting in a way they wanted us to do......a way that they knew would win them much sympathy within the Muslem world. Since when is doing what your enemy wants you to do good strategy?

    Saddam had NOTHING to do with 911 and all of your reasoning to say "of course he was part of the war on terrorism" are very shaky at best.
    ===========================

    Mike, if you have not read the book Disinformation, go pick it up NOW and read it. It's nonpartisan and a good read. One chapter throughly dispells the myth that Iraq and Al Quadea had nothing in common. In fact, they did and the connections between them were NUMEROUS. (in fact, Saddam was fond of offering them asylm)

    Of course Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, but he was in bed with Bin Laden and he tried to bomb the WTC once before. His hands were anything but clean.

    Mike,

    Saddam used to pay $25,000 to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. He mass murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people. He used chemical/biological weapons on 8 seperate and had a nuclear program that he tried to conceal from the world.

    He absolutely was a terrorist dictator.

    "How about Jimmy Carter and this "Ahmed Yousuf, chief political advisor to Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, told the Maannews Palestinian news website that Hamas officials met recently with high-ranking American figures, “especially members of the Democratic party.”…"

    The United States Consulate in Jerusalem has stated that “reports about American Democrats meeting with Hamas’ officials are completely false.”

    If this really happened, why isn't the Bush Administration and the GOP screaming bloddy murder? Why are the only places picking it up sites of dubious credibility?

    And again, why is it that if you don't support Israel unilaterally, you're an Anti-Semite? Are we not allowed to criticize our allies when they act in ways we don't like?

    When did Saddam try to bomb the towers? You are the first person I have heard recently who has claimed "he was in bed with Bin Laden". What evidence do you have of that?

    I haven't read that book, but lots of people have written books pushing agendas, but I think the overall preponderance of evidence concludes connections between them were thin at best, and certainly no reason to mount an invasion.

    The simple truth.....

    Saddam Hussein supported terrorist, armed and violent activity towards Israel and The United States.

    Al Queda supported and still supports terrorist, armed and violent activity towards Israel and The United States.

    It's not hard to understand the connections between....

    OBL
    Saddam's Iraq
    Iran
    Syria
    Militant Palestinians
    The Hezbollah in Lebanon....

    when you remember they all are fighting for the goal.....no country of Israel in the Middle East.....In fact no infidels in the Middle East (Jew, Christian, Atheist, Buddhist, Hindu....)

    Bigred:

    Those are the same old tired arguments all over again!

    He used WMD on his own people BEFORE the first Gulf War. His primitive nuclear program again predated the first Gulf War and Israel pretty much took care of that.

    Yes, he DID pay families of Palestinian Bombers in ISRAEL, and that is the only provable connection I've ever heard to any kind of actual international terrorism.

    Again, he wasn't a nice man, but invading him and occupying his country was stupid, and counterproductive.

    When did Saddam try to bomb the towers? You are the first person I have heard recently who has claimed "he was in bed with Bin Laden". What evidence do you have of that?
    ==========================================
    pt 2, see below, pt1 I'm talking about the bombing in 1993, remember it?
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1374/is_n3_v53/ai_13818521
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_22_53/ai_79665380
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_21_56/ai_n13667661
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0RMQ/is_47_10/ai_n15391577
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2751/is_n42/ai_17839897
    ^This last one more than any others you should read if for no other reason than this:
    "Few Americans are aware of the true scale of the destructive ambition behind that bomb, this despite the fact that two years later, the key figure responsible for building it -- a man who had entered the United States on an Iraqi passport under the name of Ramzi Yousef -- was involved in another stupendous bombing conspiracy. In January 1995, Yousef and his associates plotted to blow up eleven U.S. commercial aircraft in one spectacular day of terrorist rage."

    ======================================
    I haven't read that book, but lots of people have written books pushing agendas, but I think the overall preponderance of evidence concludes connections between them were thin at best, and certainly no reason to mount an invasion.
    ========================================
    Here you go mike (and like I said, pick up that book, it's not an agenda and it's VERY well written, you'll be greatly informed by it).
    From:
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4196/is_20031130/ai_n10924341
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    Committee, CIA Director George Tenet wrote that his agency had "solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al-Qaida going back a decade."
    But it now appears that he and his fellow Democrats were wrong. A new document, prepared by Douglas Feith, undersecretary of defense for policy, contains 50 points on intelligence reporting on the relationship between Hussein and bin Laden.

    Back to deal with some of the left wing propaganda spewed by Bob in his attempt to denigrate the greatest nation on this planet:

    1) Infant Mortality- Bob claims that the United States is a bad place compared to other countries because we supposedly have a higher infant mortality rate than these other countries. Like most left wing talking points, this stat has to be viewed through the lens of reality. If all countries counted "live births" using the World Health Organization definition of the term, then you could make meaningful rankings of this statistic. For example, in many countries babies that are born under a certain weight or length are not counted as live births, even if they are born alive and die shortly afterwards. The United States uses the strict WHO definition which greatly increases its numbers. Secondly, Bob overlooks the fact that, because the horrible United States has the most advanced medical technology of any nation on earth, we are able to save many low birth weight babies that could not have been saved just 20 years ago. of course, that also means that we attempt to use our superior technology to make heroic attempts to save severely disabled babies and those who can't be saved end up as a infant mortality stat, whereas in other countries (that are better than us according to Bob) no such attempt would even be made to save a baby in such a condiiton and the baby would not even be counted as a live birth. For more on how this infant mortality stat is skewed, see here:

    http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2005/03/16/sections/commentary/orange_grove/article_443950.php

    Gun deaths-- Bob loves to compare the number of deaths attributed to gun violence between Great Britain and the United States. What Bob does not tell you is the number of violent crimes that are averted because the would be crime victim had a gun and used or brandished it (or otherwise made it known to the would be attacker that he/she had a gun). The number of incidents where violent crimes are averted because the would be victim had a gun, numbers into the hundreds of thousands each year. If Bob cared to educate himself on this issue, he could read John Lott's More Guns, Less Crime. But of course he won't because he is a hopeless left winer living in his own Olbermann left fringe echo chamber.

    3) Olbermann the Liar- Earlier I challenged Bob's statement that we clear thinkers don't like Olbermann becausae he tells the "truth" I pointed out to Bob examples of Olby's lies. One of the lies was Olby's insistence that the 2004 election results were rigged because the vote in Ohio was "stolen" Bob answered by citing some left fringe wack job post alleging that overseas voters numbering in the millions were denied ballots. Bob gave no link or any evidence at all to back this up, just his own unsupported idiotic ranting. Of course, in typical fashion, Bob never answered that argument that Olby lied about the 2004 vote in OHIO being stolen, which Olby insisted for weeks was the case. I also pointed out Olby's lie regarding the impending indictment of Karl Rove, which Bob did not bother to rebut.

    Bob, ask yourself this: If Olby is such a fount of truth and wisdom, how come he will never allow a dissenting voice on his show? Could it be, just maybe, that he knows his "brilliant" analysis will be exposed for the propaganda that it is?

    One more question: If you have such a low opinion about the United States of America, tell me who gives away more money in foreign aid? Which country can be counted on for it generosity, its financial aid and its manpower to come to the rescue of countries who are ravaged because of natural disaster or other tragedies that makes the contribuitons of other countries look like chump change? Is this the ""uncivilized" country that Ms. Paltrow so brazenly condemns? Think about it.

    And yet another story you will not see discussed on COUNTDOWN.....

    From AP...

    "Though Americans are increasingly pessimistic about the war in Iraq, the Pentagon said Tuesday it is having success enlisting new troops. The Navy and Air Force met their recruiting goals last month while the Army and Marine Corps exceeded theirs, the Defense Department announced.

    "The Army, which is bearing the brunt of the work in Iraq, did the best. It signed up 6,485 new recruits in November compared with its target of 6,150 - meaning 105 percent of its goal."

    I remember watching the liberals celebrate that the Armed Forces were not meeting recruiting goals about one year ago.....Michael Moore especially like to crow about it.....Now that brave and noble citizens are still showing the left that someone wants to protect their sorry butts, will Keith Olbermann dare discuss what this means?

    Mike

    This is actually comical. I'm watching you list out chapter and verse of the liberal/left playbook, and then you're shocked - SHOCKED - to find that someone takes that to mean this is what you are.

    Then, when I prod you into a definition of responsible, you put up exactly what I was talking about --- a succession of prerequisites you can use to be against any effort to use any of the energy sources I mentioned in the first place. Have you demanded that we drill offshore? In ANWR? Have you petitioned the government to vastly increase our use of coal and nuclear? Can you seriously tell me or anyone else here you're on the front lines of these positions? I can just see you with your picket sign in front of DNC headquarters: MAKE THE USA ENERGY INDEPENDENT !! DRILL RESPONSIBLY IN ANWR!! I don't shock easily, but if you can tell me you've done that or anything like it I'll need smelling salts.

    Your argument regarding Clinton is hard to understand. Are you denying he said saddam had WMD's? And if you aren't, are you proud that Clinton knew about them and then left a mass murderer to continue with their proliferation? Maybe you should rethink your position. Actually maybe you should just think it the first time.

    Regarding "you people", you don't know what kind of person I am. Funny how you are so quick to feign offense when I make conclusions based on your laundry list of positions, but you apparently think you have free rein to pigeonhole me based on far less.

    And regarding saddam and al qaeda, have you ever thought about the fact that people/countries which don't like each other can unite over a common enemy? Do you think, for example, that saddam would have tried to stop Iran from obliterating Israel? You know better than this. You have to.

    Mike, one more thing I forgot to post.
    This is from Osama's own mouth:
    "The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post[.]…[D]espite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, in excess of 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation. So now they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors. … "

    Guess when this statement was made.
    1998!
    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDFhOGRlYjQxYjc1ZGZiOGU5MTgyODBiY2NiN2JhYWI=

    Anon (who are you...ken maybe?):

    No I haven't picketed or petitioned anybody for anything. Most ordinary citizens haven't! Are you saying that in order to be 'for' something, you have to have first 'petitioned' in favor of it, or to be against something, I have to have first picketed an agency? ABSURD!

    You keep pushing drilling and nuclear power in my face when I've already said I'm FOR it, and I never brought it up...you did! Are you some kind of an idiot????

    For the last time, I'm arguing that invading and occupying Iraq was an incredibly stupid and counterproductive thing to do, and current events are proving it. Are you blind???

    And, for the last time, I'm arguing that I don't believe that Clinton would have been stupid enough to do what Bush did, regardless of whether or not he thought they had WMD. Few potential presidents would have been THAT stupid, in my opinion!...including bush's own Daddy.

    Quit putting words and opinions in my mouth that I dont have. Right wingers are really good at that at every level. I am anti - war, and that is the only thing I have really argued on this blog.

    Challenger:

    I don't know what your point was with that last post, or how that challenged anything I have said?

    We AGREE Saddam was a bad guy, we just don't agree we should have invaded his country.

    I always wondered is there is like a “pre-game” Obly chat. Make perdictions on what old wacky Obly going to lead off with. Stuff like that. Cool..

    Anyway


    Congratulations! Let’s face it our friends in the media have won. They have managed to get the public at a point where 70% YES FOLKS 70% of the American people believes we will lose this war. Now I’m no expert I know a little. I can do the maps and the Shiite and Sunni thing for ya. But most people can’t.

    Well thanks to the folks at CNN, NBC, CBS ….and yes THE BIG OBLY we are on the road to disaster. Gezzz I know things are bad…but this is A BIG DEAL people. YOUR EVERYDAY LIFE DEPENDS ON IT.

    This is no Vietnam…..this is your pocket book. When they cut off gas…its 8$ gallon. Price of bread $20. Your 401k GONE BABY !

    So get ready boys !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m do’in the Google on “land in Alaska”…. Do the Ted Kaczynski thing, but with more guns.


    Mike

    Sorry, that doesn't fly. You were the one talking about oil dependency in the middle east and then putting buzz words in front of your "support" for the domestic policy actions that might alleviate it. Twice.

    Current events prove that fighting terrorists is extremely difficult, they do not prove ousting saddam was a bad idea. It wasn't. How cavalier of you to condemn Iraqis to him.

    As far as Clinton, you don't have to make that argument. Clinton was the one who made regime change for Iraq THE POLICY OF THE USA. Not Bush, Clinton. You seem to revel in the fact that, having done so, he then proceeded to do nothing about it...as he did nothing about the terrorist acts against the USA both domestic and abroad throughout his 8 years in office. Evidently this is a good thing to you.

    I urge you to think about what international terrorism was when Clinton took office, and what it had grown into by the time he left -- after giving it a free pass for 8 years. Instead of blaming Clinton's inaction, you blame Bush for trying to deal with the result of his inaction. I would submit your criticism is misplaced.

    And, as before, you insist I'm putting words in your mouth while simultaneously ascribing an agenda to me without any basis whatsoever. ("Quit putting words and opinions in my mouth that I dont have. Right wingers are really good at that at every level") You don't know whether I'm rightwing or any wing. All this does is prove you're a hypocrite.

    Previously I said you were comical. Ditto.

    I would like to congrulate Mike (who apparently falls in the 4.5% of those unemployed in the horrible Bush economic landscape) for making the most posts in one day in the history of message boards!

    Bonds? McGwire? Maris? Mike? A 14-year-old teenager on PamAnderson.com's message boards ? When it comes to gaudy numbers, nobody has anything on these guys!

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have to finish up some work while Mike continues to suck free dollars out of the government while he lectures us all day on OlbermannWatch from the comfort of a Starbucks with free wireless access.

    And, yes, it was me. I inadvertently neglected to put my name up

    Redstate, if you want to call being in business for my self and being free to get on MY computer in MY home any time I please as being 'unemployed', then you show your own stupidity!

    For the record, I've never sucked a dime of 'unemployment' money in my life, or any other type of government handout, unless you want to count my meager salery they paid me while I was in the military.

    Now shut the hell up...you moron!

    It's funny that Cee and Challenger are asking me what bill was passed that I explained to them.

    Are they too lazy to look it up themselves?
    Or are they afraid of what they may find ?

    Either way...do some damn research yourselves.

    Cee thinks I'm the only one who has objected to the increase in the power of the executive branch under Bush. Cee also thinks it's just business as usual.
    He is thoroughly uninformed and when he is educated on it, he contines to blow smoke.
    There has been a giant tip in the balance of power towards the executive branch under this president, but as usual Cee plays deaf dumb and blind about anything that deals with Bush.
    He is totally without merit in all of his (non) points.

    Nevertheless Mike with each additional post you are adding to your record.Just something to think about !

    Bob, all I asked was for you to tell me where in the United States Constitution it states that the judiciary or the congress may "check" on the executive's execution of war? You are the simpleton who can't answer the question....not me....I know the answer and will be glad to tell you.

    It's funny that Cee and Challenger are asking me what bill was passed that I explained to them.

    Are they too lazy to look it up themselves?
    Or are they afraid of what they may find ?
    -----------------

    Bob, do you have any idea how many bills go through congress in a day? You tell me about this "mystery" bill with no reference to a name, call number, sponser, or ANYTHING by which I can look it up.

    I will go read it when you give me SOMETHING to go on. Otherwise you're asking me to look for a needle in a haystack without even telling me which field the haystack's in.

    Okay guys maybe there is a way we can all come together. There seems to be some places where we can meet halfway.

    After all here is what been established so far:

    1. Bob is a simpleton
    2. Redstate a moron
    3. Mike is trying to break or has already broken the record for the number of post in one day.
    4. I’m the smartest guy on this board
    5. Al Gore invented the internet

    Ken:

    There you go twisting what you think I believe. You object to me assumming you are "right wing" even as you put words and thoughts into my writings that are not there.

    No amount of spin can change the fact that BUSH invaded Iraq, not Clinton. We ALL wanted regime change" in Iraq, but very few of us advocated actually invading and occupying them.

    I will say it again, it was STUPID, UNJUSTIFIED, and against our very own interest. Was the thought; open a front in Iraq so AL Queda will come to us? Great strategy!

    As far as "condemning Iraqis to Saddam". That was not our concern. We cannot save the world. We should be looking after our own interests, although I think it might be a safe bet most Iraqis might long for the old status quo at the moment.

    Maybe you should be asking yourself if, in light of the 3000 AMERICAN lives lost, 20,000 more seriously wounded, and untold billions we have had to borrow, if taking out Saddam was worth it. Maybe you should ask the soldiers and their families?

    You think we are fighting terrorists in Iraq...I think we are creating terrorists and providing an ideal training environement for them in Iraq. Unfortunately foe all of us, current events seem to favor my view!

    And finally 'hypocrite'...now there's a word that everybody just loves to throw around when the're looking for a convenient put down. however, I havent' said one thing hypocritical on this blog and so it 'proves' nothing.

    So Brian, what is the purpose of your posts? Are you trying to shut everyone up?

    Mike with each additional post you are giving some to what Redstate had posted earlier. Maybe everybody needs to cool there jets. Right or wrong friends our way of life is in play here. Imagine if you will, 10$ gallon gas. Can you imagine the inflation? Can you imagine the stock market taking a dive? Your 401k your friends 401ks…..your job…my job. Add your own damn nightmare here __________________


    Oh brother.

    This is my last try.

    -Yes, Bush invaded, not Clinton. I never said otherwise. Clinton made regime change our policy and then did nothing about it, just as he condemned every terrorist attack and did nothing about them either. Who's arguing?

    -I get a charge out of your comment that "We ALL wanted regime change in Iraq, but very few of us advocated actually invading and occupying them". In other words, say the right words, just don't do anything about it. You should join the UN, with a strategy like that they'll make you the secretary general in no time. You can start by condemning Rwanda and Darfur without acting. Look at how well that worked out.

    -You can say it all you want, but removing a mass murdering lunatic who was aggressively aiding and abetting international terrorism was very much in our interest, not to mention the entire world's.

    -Other than the Sunni minority he gave things to, it's a safe bet that no one wants saddam back. To think they do displays an ignorance beyond what I can address. Human rights watch and Amnesty international - neither of them particular friends of the USA or our Iraq policy - conservatively estimated that saddam did away with almost 400,000 of his own citizens (that's about 16,000 a year) BEFORE you get to the wars and how many deaths they caused). Somehow I doubt Iraq longs for those days again.

    -It is true that we have lost almost 3,000 soldiers in the 3 1/2 years of this war. That is roughly the number of civilians we lost in a matter of minutes on 9/11. It's also less than 1% of the number of combat fatalities in WWII (407,000). And Germany never attacked us any more than saddam did. Using your logic there was no reason to have fought WWII. Are you sorry we ousted hitler?

    -The argument that fighting terrorists creates terrorists is amazingly naive. What happens if you DON'T fight them? They get discouraged if they win without a fight and just fade away?

    -And yes, you're a hypocrite, as I demonstrated earlier:

    ...you insist I'm putting words in your mouth while simultaneously ascribing an agenda to me without any basis whatsoever. ("Quit putting words and opinions in my mouth that I dont have. Right wingers are really good at that at every level") You don't know whether I'm rightwing or any wing. All this does is prove you're a hypocrite.

    Have a nice day Mike.

    Oh brother.

    This is my last try.

    -Yes, Bush invaded, not Clinton. I never said otherwise. Clinton made regime change our policy and then did nothing about it, just as he condemned every terrorist attack and did nothing about them either. Who's arguing?

    -I get a charge out of your comment that "We ALL wanted regime change in Iraq, but very few of us advocated actually invading and occupying them". In other words, say the right words, just don't do anything about it. You should join the UN, with a strategy like that they'll make you the secretary general in no time. You can start by condemning Rwanda and Darfur without acting. Look at how well that worked out.

    -You can say it all you want, but removing a mass murdering lunatic who was aggressively aiding and abetting international terrorism was very much in our interest, not to mention the entire world's.

    -Other than the Sunni minority he gave things to, it's a safe bet that no one wants saddam back. To think they do displays an ignorance beyond what I can address. Human rights watch and Amnesty international - neither of them particular friends of the USA or our Iraq policy - conservatively estimated that saddam did away with almost 400,000 of his own citizens (that's about 16,000 a year) BEFORE you get to the wars and how many deaths they caused). Somehow I doubt Iraq longs for those days again.

    -It is true that we have lost almost 3,000 soldiers in the 3 1/2 years of this war. That is roughly the number of civilians we lost in a matter of minutes on 9/11. It's also less than 1% of the number of combat fatalities in WWII (407,000). And Germany never attacked us any more than saddam did. Using your logic there was no reason to have fought WWII. Are you sorry we ousted hitler?

    -The argument that fighting terrorists creates terrorists is amazingly naive. What happens if you DON'T fight them? They get discouraged if they win without a fight and just fade away?

    -And yes, you're a hypocrite, as I demonstrated earlier:

    ...you insist I'm putting words in your mouth while simultaneously ascribing an agenda to me without any basis whatsoever. ("Quit putting words and opinions in my mouth that I dont have. Right wingers are really good at that at every level") You don't know whether I'm rightwing or any wing. All this does is prove you're a hypocrite.

    Have a nice day Mike.

    Mike said:" Don't be so condescending. I have watched the O'Relly show many times. Yes, I'm aware that one clip does not tell the whole story, but he still talked over her after asking her to answer a question.

    I just used that as an example of what I personally cannot stand about O'Reilly and, believe it or not, he's no better than Olbermann, but at least Olbermann has more common sense.:" "I didn't say Olbermann has more common sense than O'Reilly just because he doesn't talk over his guests.

    I said it because, well....he has more common sense....period!" " I am anti - war, and that is the only thing I have really argued on this blog.
    Posted by: Mike at December 12, 2006 07:30 PM"

    I agree most of your points are about the war.I have no problem with your opinion.You make a good case and I understand it. I dont agree and know I cant change your mind or vice versa.But the point of this blog is what a lying piece of crap KO is.I know you agree with his attacks on Bush and and the war.I still figured you were smart enough to see what a spineless jerk he is.And after making the posts from above it appears you do argue for other things and not just the war.You believe BOR is no better than KO.Dont want to name call but that is a dumb statement.From your post I would have to conclude you "cant stand "O 'reilly because he talks over his guests.I posted back that many hosts do this .Chris Matthews is without a doubt the worse and I believe you like him.Whats the difference? I think because Matthews really hates this war and BOR is for it. I dont hate Matthews or you for being against it.That's your opinion.BOR has his also but at least he is honest when he says it's just his opinion.Not like KO.BOR says he is an analyst and gives opinion.Just because you disagree is no reason to hate him..KO says he is non partisan and is a journalist.See a difference there?You want to agree with KO on the issue that's fine but admit he's a hypocrite and liar. You claim KO has more "common sense".Well lets compare a couple of instances.When BOR had a show that dealt with war atrocities he said all sides do it and gave an example.He made a mistake and anyone seeing the show or read the transcript would know it.Your idol lunged at the chance to label BOR as a Nazi supporter.Tell me where his common sense was there? I dont like KO but I would not have even thought that of him if he made this mistake.Lets be real if someone told you what BOR had said you or any other person with "common sense" would conclude he made a mistake.He then went to a luncheon with a BOR mask and gave the Nazi salute.He also went on LENO and acted like he did not want to expose BOR but he had no choice.What a despicable human being this guy is.Oh, and all this was after he went on one of his rants about never using Nazi slurs.Of course attacking the Bush admin. And for O'relly having no "common sense."He had a guest on yesterday that was angry about Rosie O making fun of the chinese.Many people have admonished her including Joe Scarbough who did a long segment on her being racist.O'reilly the one with no "common sense" and who has no love for Rosie O or vice versa calmy suggested that he did not believe she was trying to be racist or intentionally hurt anyone.She is a comedienne and did it in good nature.Tell me if you think KO would have done the same if anyone on the right or BOR himself had done this.That is the big difference between these two .O'reilly will give you his honest opinion without tring to slander. He then has a guest to give their opposing stand. BOR really does not have to do that since he is just an analyst. Ironic that he does anyway and KO who claims to be a newscaster and non patisan will not. If you can not see the difference between these two then I have no respect for any of your opinions.You are not being honest and cant be taken seriously. KO is a liar,hypocrite,and misrepresents himself. Tell me what qualities BOR shares with this slug.

    Karris 56:

    Great post. You included specific examples to show the appalling dishonesty, hypocrisy and vindictiveness of KO towards his vastly superior competition, O'Reilly. I don't anticipate the Olbermann loonies will attempt to answer your post, but I would love to see them try.

    Ken:

    You've proven nothing, and you logic is distorted!

    You thinking 'wanting' regime change but not advocating actually doing it militarily is hypocracy...it's NOT!!!!! I also 'want' regime change in North Korea, Syria, Iran, Russia, Somalia, The Sudan, etc., etc, etc.. I would be a freaking madman if I advocated actually doing it militarily!

    Bush's daddy wanted regime change, but he didn't advocate occupying them. Outside adjetation and destabalization was the method of choice by policy by both him and Clinton.

    Invading Iraq was a moronic act under the circumstances that we did it.

    Karris:

    I respect and appreciate your opinion, especially since you laid it out in such a respectfull manner. Thank you for that.

    I think it really just comes down to I like KO and tend to agree with most of his worldview. I don't like O'Reilly's mannerism and disagree with much of his worldview. So for me, we have two positives in one case, and two negatives in the other.

    Neither one of us is either 'wrong' or 'right' on this issue. It's just a preference for one opinion show over another.

    I see all kinds of things that irritate me about KO, but that also applies with every cable show out there. My favorite cable show was actually Aaron Brown's, and we know what happened to him!

    Many of the criticisms leveled at KO on this site ARE in fact correct, and I have said so in the past.

    What continues to baffle me is WHY this show troubles you so much? It is really easy to ignor it and it's reach and influence is very limited.

    So I have to conclude that this show troubles some of you so much because it represents a viewpoint you don't agree with and fear KO might actually influence more gullible viewers who don't already have a firm worldview. Isn't that what really troubles you? If so, I can understand that.

    That is exactly why right wing talk radio and the entire Fox cable channel troubles me. I fear that many folks are getting ALL their news from these kind of sources, and are therefore not as well rounded as they should be. There are consequences to this...these people vote!

    So the bottom line to me is; these days, cable news as a whole seems to be tilted somewhat to the right. Don't laugh! Robert Cox actually agreed with me about a week ago on this very point in a post he made about a week ago (In response to a similar post that I made)...And you and I both know that he is no liberal.

    So what is the great harm to have this one show that tilts to the left so much, when there are actually more opinion shows on cable that tilt your way. Is your goal to have them all tilt to the right?

    I don't know what else I could say about KO except to say that all things considered, I support him and want to see him succeed.


    Mike: Still dont get why you cant stand O'reilly.First you said it was his shoutdowns.Then you come back and say his worldview and mannerisms.I dont get worldview because as stated earlier they are his opinions.I dont like your worldview yet have no malice towards you as I can respect your opinion.KO is another story because his worldview is displayed by him as fact. And he has a guest brought in to echo those points..Mannerisms? You hate a guy for this?I also said KO is a liar,hypocrite,and he misrepresents himself.Doyou disagree with any of that?.I have shown examples.Let me know if you think any are wrong. If BOR had done any of those things I would have no respect for the man and could not belive anything he says even if I agree with him. Let me try to make a comparison and see if you get why I hate KO.Chris Matthews is another who really hates the war.Yet he will have both sides on most of the time to debate.He also talks of the president with respect even tho you know he wants him out of office.He also seems like a nice guy.No malace toward anyone.He was getting on my nerves at one point tho when everyday he was trying to indict Rove.He only saw it one way and got testy if called on it.Then he revealed how he thought this had something to do with the war and then I understood.And then when the source was revealed he stopped talking and about it and said it had gotten to complicated.Only because he never looked at any other angles on this and here was a case where his worlview got in the way. Ko does this all the time but there is no one he has on to dispute this with him.I hated KO when he was at Espn.He came accross as mean spirited and arrogant..He tried to be cute by ridiculing players.That was his humor.Not funny to me.Chris Berman would also be cute but he WAS funny and not in a mean way.You could also see his love for sports which KO( to me anyway) lacked.He moved to NBC and is still arrogant and mean spirited.He now ridicules conservatives and O'reilly.I just ask that the guy put on someone who has another opinion after he makes his bias statements.If not man enough then at least have the integrity to say you are a liberal or are an analyst giving his opinion. Glenn Beck did a show a while back and an e-mailer scolded him on his conservative views .He said" I have never said I was a journalist.You have to be impartial and that is a tough job.I am not good enough to keep my opinions to my self. THAT IS WHY JUST ABOUT EVERY DAY I SAY I AM A CONSERVATIVE AND THESE ARE JUST MY OPINIONS ." Most guys on cable seem like honest guys .KO just strikes me as a Dick.Who wants attention and doesn't care who he has to lie about or step on to get there.Just my opinion.

    "What continues to baffle me is WHY this show troubles you so much? It is really easy to ignor it and it's reach and influence is very limited."

    Its Cognitive Dissonance, Mike. The facts reported by Olbermann fatally contradict the dogma these two-dimensional beings subscribe to. The internal consistency of the world-view presented by the left utterly destroys the disarticulated house of cards these goons live in, so that if they consider one argument pesented by Keith or AirAmerica, everything else they believe - American exceptionalism; Free-Market Fundamentalism; bronze-age mythology - will be painfully swept away.

    It hurts, and they fight it tooth and nail.

    ...so to avoid the pain and inevitable change, they attack and attempt to discredit the messengers; to actually deal with the arguments would expose them to the mental anguish of knowing everything they believe is wrong.

    Sir Loin, issue your arguments and I will deal with them head on.

    Sometimes when the boy cries 'wolf', there really is a wolf!

    Sometimes when the boy cries 'wolf', there really is a wolf!
    ****************************************************
    Yes Phil, and that is how the story ends. But the moral of it was, if you keep cyring wolf every time when there isn't one, then nobody will respond or react to you when the wolf really appears.

    "Princess Diana may have been bugged by the US (Keith was careful not to mention that this would have happened during the Clinton administration),"

    Proven untrue by the official British inquiry into Princess Di's death:

    http://files.homeoffice.gov.uk/OperationPagetReport.pdf

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