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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    December 15, 2006
    COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN - DECEMBER 15, 2006

    "COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" (8:00 P.M.-9:00 P.M. ET)

    Host: Keith Olbermann

    Topics/Guests:

    • THE CHANGING FACE OF THE ADMINISTRATION: Craig Crawford, Congressional Quarterly columnist and MSNBC political analyst

    Ho hum. Another Countdown, another opening spiel: Rummy's last day, Tim Johnson update, Tony Snow apologizes (didn't he just do this yesterday?) and what the "right wing" says about it, Laura "disses" Condi, and 2006's favorite baby names. We suspect that "Keith" is way down on that list. But on to a farcical Hour of Spin that found Olbermoronn seizing on the most trivial possible concerns in a manner so desperate that it approached self-parody.

    MADMAN

    The infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann started out by rattling off past Secretaries of Defense, asking how soon before Rummy "is forgotten". His departure ceremony looked like it took place "in an alternate universe". Hey, leave OlbyPlanet out of this! Then it was on to why is "Mister" Cheney not speaking more. Yeah, that's the burning question that's on the lips of everyone from coast to coast.

    Enter Dana Milbank, shorn of screwy shrouds. Herr Olbermann immediately launched into a classic leading question, invoking Rule #1 (it's bad for Bush or Republicans) while simultaneously advancing every principle of OlbySpin:

    With the nation at war, giving every indication that the nation will stay at war for some time to come, in, in which universe does it help "Mister" Bush to say that he is not losing any sleep at night?

    No, we're not making this up. Krazy Keith's lead story is that the President is in political trouble because he doesn't have insomnia! Even DM had to chuckle at the insipid doltishness of that query, and it was left to whatever reporter's bones that haven't been compromised by appearances on The Hour of Spin for Dana to point out that Bush said that because he was asked if he uses sleeping pills. Gawd, this all-consuming mystery has finally been cleared up!

    KO, of course, who bashes other people for wishing ill on their political opponents, came right back with: "There's always pretzels". A class guy. He went on to call the departure ceremony a "coronation". You can tell this is a Friday and Monkeymann is desperate. What, they shouldn't have a brass band? Maybe just an organ grinder and a monkey? This is what The Future of Television is reduced to kvetching about? Then Olby got into another earth-shaking controversy about an old Time Man of the Year cover, because the White House is "grasping at straws", and...and...forget it. It was all just too mind-numbingly surreal to waste our valuable server space on. Dana was great thanksed, presumably for not erupting in derisive laughter at the inanity of the questions.

    Then it was back to yesterday's news, Tony Snow's apology to David Gregory. Craig Crawford, aka Olbermann's Brain, was dragged in to explain why the "right-wing media" haven't given this Great Moment in History sufficient coverage. Brain chortled that he was "stunned" by the apology, and snickered that "the public's getting on to this game". KO went back to the "allies of the White House" who attacked NBC, and while he tried several times to get Brain to elaborate on the "right-wing media" who weren't covering the apology, neither of them gave one single example. In fact, the only example Brain gave was of an unnamed member of the "right-wing media" that did cover it. Long story short, Herr Olbermann's entire premise was false, unproven, and a prime exemplification of OlbySpin.

    After great thanksing Brain there was a brief update about "signs of improvement" for Sen Johnson, who may "shortly return to the Senate". Ahem, when Slippery Shuster was citing his "sources" and intoning gloom and doom for the Senator's health on Monday, we immediately noted that was probably the best news Johnson could hear. Shuster wrong again? How about that.

    #4: Laura Bush's interview with People magazine, which Olbermoronn deliberately misrepresented to create a titillating headline. When asked about Condi Rice running for President, Laura said she didn't think Condi would run:

    Probably because she is single, her parents are no longer living, she's an only child. You need a very supportive family and supportive friends to do this job.

    Here is how Olbermann reported Mrs Bush's answer:

    The answer is simple: she has not got a man.

    Gee, now what do you suppose the slovenly political hack was implying with that? Does Keith Olbermann get more repellent and despicable every day? Please, do not flood us with emails. Rhetorical question only. Leftist Margaret Carlson entered to take Olby's absurd hypothesis to new heights of pseudo-intellectual armchair psychoanlysis. Mrs Bush thinks being single is "a terrible thing". She sounds like she thinks "these are pathetic things to be". Condi is "the daughter that Bush doesn't have". All but giving a wink and a nod to the camera, she added that among "family values" types, being unmarried at that age is "odd" and "they don't know where to place you". KO added that the "right-wing media" (obviously The Phrase of the Night) would have condemned Hillary if she had said what Laura said. Which might be why the left-wing media (Olby) condemned Laura.

    Yes, we have graduated from the eeevils of a President who doesn't suffer from insomnia to a First Lady who thinks family and friends are a good thing. What will be the next explosive scandal to be exposed to the world by Fat Ass Olbermann?

    #3: Mid-air collision (two servings of regurgitated video from NBC). #2: Missing mountain climbers (more reruns), Buck O'Neil, Oprah. #1: The top baby names.

    In the Media Matters Minute, Keith "Man on Fan" Olbermann attacked Fred Barnes (conservative) for saying that doctors' public reports on politicians are sometimes not true. Oddly, KO did not include Slippery Shuster, who on Wednesday was far more of a doomsayer than Fred was. This would be Olbypocrisy Example #529.

    Then it was on to an O'Reilly attack, something he said about Toys for Tots and Seattle that was "flat out lying again". But great researcher Olbermann left a few things out. He didn't directly quote O'Reilly. He didn't state where O'Reilly said it, or when. You'd think this info would be easy to lift from Media Matters, but it turns out they have nothing on this alleged statement. Neither does another favorite source: ThinkProgress. How could they both have missed this? So whom did Keith lift it from, without attribution? Surprise, it was another blue blog: HuffPo. And guess what? The writer there also gave no source, no time frame, and no venue. And with Mr Bill not even on the air yesterday or today...well, color us skeptical. Come up with some documentation or proof, Fat Ass. You've lied about O'Reilly so many times that's the least you could do.

    OLBY

    Silent schnauzers: Edward R Olbermann continues to ignore what appears to be a prima facie case of prosecutorial misconduct in the Duke LaCrosse matter. Need we point out that the prosecutor in question is a (D)? (The discredited sports guy has even invented a self-serving explanation of his handling of this story. Unfortunately at its heart it's just another Olbermann lie, which we shall dissect in a separate post.) Dozens of Pakistanis were arrested trying to sneak into the US under false pretenses. Olby won't tell you about it because he's too busy denying that terror threats require border security. Sales better than expected catapulting the market to another all time high? Nah, that's not news on The Hour of Spin. Still not even a "worst person" nomination for Joy Behar, and nothing on the FBI alert issued on news of the blind sheik's ill health. Finally, KO has yet to tell his viewers how Jack Abramoff implicated Sen Harry Reid.

    NAME

    Olbermann's book The book that bears Olberman's name is down to #364 at amazon, while Mr Bill's "Culture Warrior" is #16. The OlbyTome stands at #1,706 at Barnes & Noble, but O'Reilly's book is #21, and is #3 on the New York Times Best Sellers List. In the Thursday cable news race, Herr Olbermann was not up against his nemesis, but even so, The Kasich Factor beat Olby by more than two to one, though with Mr Bill off on assignment, the discreted sports guy did manage second place, even in the critical, beloved, all-important, coveted "key demo". Tonight's MisterMeter reading: 3 [GUARDED]


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (221) | | View blog reactions
    user-pic

    221 Comments

    Olby, you wish you could plug Katy.

    Hmmm, Keith is thinking about baby names. It got te be Katy's idea.

    Johnny, check those ratings numbers again. It was 3-1 for the Kasich Factor, and a third place finish overall for Olbermoron.

    I had the wrong link. Link corrected, now goes to the correct numbers.

    Nobody watched Krazy Keith tonight.

    Except you people.

    I did not, so I have to depend on you guys to start a debate. I can't look at his face, a hypocrite and a womanizer. He does nothing for his show, depends on his staff and plays taeps. Why will I spend my time to watch his show? I watched Chris Matthew though. At least he said tonight, are we ready for an AFRICAN American president.

    taeps should be tapes, sorry for the typo.

    I honestly do not know what this whole rage complex specifically towars Keith Olbermann is entirely about. I know you can give me a whole spiel on how he dislikes conservatives and never gives them a chance on the television show that you all hate (logic...!??!) and how he always steps on that lovable Bill O' Reilly who just loves making fun of LGBT people inbetween self-serving Olbermann-esque dramatic rants that if you put right into a voice modulator you would see & hear how exactly similar that they are.

    P.S. that whole "they have ratings" thing is getting tired. How about "they have ethics"?!? As Fox gives away the names and identities of L Crosse witnesses?!?!?!?!

    Yep, it is all about ratings and their giant huge egos. I am tired of cable news, yelling at each other arguing about nothing and try to tell me what to think. Ratings are from you guys, viewers. These are the craps that you guys what to see. Who to blame? This is not journalism, I don't what to call it. Krazy Keith can call himself Edward Murrow of this generation, Mr. Murrow had better changed his name.

    So if Condi can't run for president because she doesn't have a man, would it hold true that the reason Olbermann isn't a bigger success in the news business is because he can't keep a woman? In the world of Olbylogic, it would appear to be so. What a prince he is, yet another disparaging comment made about women. And his fans wonder why he's single? Case closed.

    He can't keep a woman for a woman is smart enough will not hook up with him. He loves all women on this planet.

    I know what will be fun!!! A question!?

    Olbermann Watch {us bicker}:

    If there were a cable show that labelled itself as a "news" show, that had a host who constantly inveighed against every liberal action and utterance, who brought on guests with exclusively conservative opinion that parrotted the opinions of the host, who overlooked scandalous behavior by conservatives, who encouraged an e-mail heckler to "kill yourself", who admonished commentators to cease using the invective "Nazi" then deceitfully slander his superior competition by calling him a "Nazi", who falsely represented that a Democratic president had been elected because his party had "stolen" the vote, would you have a problem with understanding the existence of a web site dedicated to exposing this host's fraudulent and deceptive utterances?

    hank:Yes I would. Where is a website like this for Michael Savage?!?

    Olbermann Watch:

    Why don't you start one, Savage Watch??? Let me know and I will see you there.

    Well... the idea I was going for was... Michael Savage has his little piece of the pie on some station... Jim Cramer, in all of his off-kilter melding of entertainment with business programming... Nancy Grace who litterally looks for flaws with the deffendent, usually... Glenn me me me me Beck (starting a Beck media universe)... Colbert who hates Rodham... Randi Rhodes who promised her fanhood a book... Don Imus who recently went on a mean.......... you get the idea... there are so many people out there ruining the realm of media glory that it used to be... really sad, and I do not condone any of it...

    ...but honestly... all of you elves working so hard until Keith Olbermann is cancelled is so astonishingly beautifull... I have to analyze. So... in the past few days as you have seen I have largely nipped the button but sometimes I get a little bit feisty when someone says "plug Katy" or "Krazy Keith"... really upsetting when I think about it... to the point of tears...

    Correction: where it says Colbert... replace that with Tucker Carlson.

    Anon 10:26 said: "why will I spend my time to watch his (Olby's) show"?....Duh, I dunno! So why would you spend your time yapping about a show you don't even watch?

    Hank: Your not 'exposing' anybody! All your doing is wasting your time pissing against the wind.

    I have to disagree... somebody shut the doors of Madison's 'The Mic'... I bet there was a movement there...

    Mike:

    I love to blog and I also love to see what you guys think, just for fun, a Friday night. I do not watch the Factor either.

    Olbermann Watch:

    Yesh, to the point of tears, how long have you been his fan, he said very nasty thing bashing people, bring to my tears, he is just not a nice person period

    I am impartial. Many of the aforementioned were objectively Conservative reasons for not liking who was mentioned.

    -----------------------------------------

    Although... I hit the nail straight on the head with the Madison 92.1 post that I wrote. The reason that I could never ever be a driving factor of a website like this is because if I ever actually got let's say Joe Schmoe fired and I was apart of the website that campaigned against 'em... I would never let myself down...

    I know I was somewhat joyous over Nancy Grace's pending lawsuit. I am going to let that down, as well.

    Well anon 11:41, your obviously not a very nice person either if you truly have dedicated your free time to trying to silence someone that some of us like to hear!

    I'm not really a 'fan', but he says things that need to be said that no one else is saying. I think that is what really bothers you, isn't it?

    I'm not saying they are, but it wouldn't be too surprising to hear that O'Reilly, or Fox were actually financing this site!

    I almost fell out of my chair when Olby touted his Thursday night ratings in the 25-54 demo against "The Factor."

    Mr. "truth to power" failed to mention the very relevant fact that Bill O'Reilly was on assignment and John Kasich hosted!

    Good job keith, you almost beat the sub!

    I'm not really a 'fan', but he says things that need to be said that no one eles is saying. I think that is what really bothers you, isn't it?

    Ya know I'm going to take a ride to see me friends at the observatory. See who's out back where the big dishes are. I'll listen in on the dish and see if I can hear anything from space!

    Even if I don't hear anything tonight it will still be more intelligent than what comes on at 8 P.M. on M.S.L.S.D.

    Oh! no bother! No bother at all!

    But seriously folks! I think Olby should be kept on the air, for Mike and Bicker Boy and the rest.......Sheep need something simple to guide them!

    Somebody said O'Reilly or Fox is financing this site?

    Comon! Now tell us how much crack did we have to smoke tonight? NO,NO,NO! Can't blame it on Art Bell, he's not on tonight. Except maybe in you're mind.

    But really it seems that Bill O'Reilly is out on another special assignment, Michael Smerconish who has been filling in for the past few days on the radio side. Said he will be back Monday, but said pictures will be posted on billoreilly.com sometime Sunday.

    How about Bill going out into the field again somewhere in America or maybe the world? Remember when Olby tried to do Keith across America or something the early part of this year. Yeah thats when he sat in the studio and and showed tape of somewhere. Boy, that didn't last long. Psst! Message to Keith! When you say you're going out across America. It means you're supposed to go out across America! Like somebody drive you!

    But Keith fret not! Now that New Jersey has same sex unions you and Katie can move to New Jersey. Yes by not having Tony Snow on Olby proves again that he has........ NO BALLS!

    But remember folks, sheep need something simple to guide them.

    "He says things that need to be said that no one eles is saying."

    Class before we go let's examine this sentence one more time. There's a park I go running in and we have this homeless guy that walks over from the shelter. He's always saying things that he thinks need to be said and believe me No one else is saying it. But he's cool, if he's there I'll run into the c-store at one end and get him cigarettes. Ya know, if they boot Keith maybe I can get this homeless guy to replace him and Mike might never know the difference!

    It's that sheep thing ya know.

    Oh I almost forgot before I go there was this article on The Drudge Report if you link to it the article will tell you about vegetarians are a little smarter than carnivores. It says the research went on for twenty years. Twenty Years? Oh they could have come to that conclusion a lot sooner, sure! All they had to do to figure that out was visit Olby watch and look at the postings of sir loin of beef!

    Oh! No bother! No bother at all!

    Oh and whoever said whatever about Savage's website. Listen up mush head I'm about to give a very important clue ready. It doesn't matter if you like his site or not. But the stories posted on there if you take you're little mouse and click on the story it takes you to the ACTUAL SITE! Where as in Olby land if you want to attack somebody that you don't agree with, Bill O'Reilly attack #100whatever) Hey if you don't have anything you find a blue blogger to make something up!

    Remember it's that sheep thing.

    Wait! Katie might want to have a baby with Keith?

    Is that show "Intervention" still on A&E?

    Johnny Dollar,

    Heh, I love the assertion that Olbermann has "lied about O'Reilly so many times." I highly suspect the opposite is true, that he tells far more truths about O'Reilly than lies, that is, considering the volumes of books, chapters, and pages written about O'Reilly's less than honest nature. But, go ahead with your charades. They are nothing if not hysterical.

    Sincerely,
    Josh

    "There's always pretzels"

    Keith Olbermann really said this? The man condemns people for joking about such things and then goes about joking about such things....How can anyone defend this moron?

    Josh, JD has documented, with back-up proof the many lies that Olbermann has told about not only O'Reilly, but many others as well. The fact that you Olbyloons continue to insist on ignoring that documentation says more about your tenuous grasp on reality than anything I could say.

    And how can you people continue to defend him when you know he plays fast and loose with the facts? You saw the ratings segment last night. The ratings segment where he failed to mention that O'Reilly wasn't even hosting. If that doesn't show you his propensity for twisting the truth, shading facts, and boosting his own self-importance, I don't know what else does. How many liberal blogs and websites today will carry statements from people foolish enough to believe Olbermann that he's now "nearly beating O'Reilly in the ratings". He's intellectually dishonest.

    Furthermore, to "Bicker" I say this: those shows you cited are labeled as opinion shows. Not news shows. Furthermore, none of those hosts display their partisanship is such a blatant matter as Olbermann does. How many times do we have to repeat it before it sinks into your thick skulls?

    I don't know whether to pity you people that you can't see this about him or laugh at you. Either way, it's almost sad that you're so willing to be completly duped and feel you have to defend this man who is so obviously not the swell guy you think he is and that you actually think what he does is some sort of gold standard in news. It's not, he's not and if you can't understand that, it's just a really sad statement on the state of the news business that you can't.

    This is enlightening. http://colorado.mediamatters.org/items/200612160001

    It's Media Matters whining about Republican commentators making ill-chosen remarks about Sen. Johnson's illness.

    Gee, do you think they'll chide Keith for hoping the president chokes to death on a pretzel?

    Brandon,

    What documentation? Johnny never documents. He rehashes Olbermann's segments with a neocon twist and spoon feeds it back to his little baby neocons on this sight. What are you calling documentation? Has Olbermann lied about O'Reilly? I don't know. Probably. But, certainly no more than O'Reilly has lied about Olbermann. And, how can we continue to defend him when we know he plays fast and loose with the rules? Ummmm... Johnny and you are defending O'Reilly, and you're asking me that? Bill ("I've been in battle...") O'Reilly? Bill ("Paris Business Review") O'Reilly? Bill ("I'm a registered independant") O'Reilly? Bill ("We've got proof of Iraq links to Al Qaeda") O'Reilly? Give me a freekin break.

    Sincerely,
    Josh

    "So if Condi can't run for president because she doesn't have a man, would it hold true that the reason Olbermann isn't a bigger success in the news business is because he can't keep a woman? In the world of Olbylogic, it would appear to be so. What a prince he is, yet another disparaging comment made about women. And his fans wonder why he's single? Case closed." Posted by: Keith's a Fraud at December 15, 2006 10:55 PM

    This is what your skewed mind derived from this story? Sure, it was a silly story about a silly comment from a sily first lady - but you are attributing the implications of Laura's coment to Keith. Think about it.

    The worst former President ever, Jimmy C. has made it official-- he is the Keith Olbermann of politicans:

    "Carter had planned to go Brandeis University to discuss the book (“Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid”) but decided against it after the university requested that he debate Alan Dershowitz about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Carter said the outspoken Harvard law professor "knows nothing about the situation."
    "I don't want to have a conversation even indirectly with Dershowitz," Carter said in Friday's Boston Globe. "There is no need ... to debate somebody who, in my opinion, knows nothing about the situation in Palestine."

    http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2006/12/15/carter_nixes_debate_with_outspoken_prof/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News

    Isn't this great? Carter puts out a repulsive piece of pro-Palestinian propoganda calling for Isarael to negotiate with terrorists hell bent on their destruction who have proved repreatedly that "land for peace" only brings more acts of terrorism from the Palestinians. So rather than back up his outrageous claims and have an honest debate, he hurls insults at thoose who see the issue differently. Sound familiar? Is J.C. perhaps getting some advice from Orange Boy on how to deal with voices who dissent from your point of view?

    Reportedly, J.C. turned down the Brandeis debate because the idea of debating issues makes him "queasy".

    Thanks J$ for anohter classic. I watched Fat Ass last night....

    I see among other things, that Rosie O'Donnell(D) make fun of Chinese people on the view did not rate for a WPITW mention...

    Big surprise... Olby is so damn entertaining but the recaps are even better. I love visiting Olbyplanet fully knowing that I can beam out of there when it's all over.

    It must be awful for Citizen Keith to be living with his Brain....

    NBC News has whored themselves at the alter of advertising greed....Huntley and Brinkley would be spinning in their graves.

    L.F.

    The OPINIONS expressed by Sir Loin of Milquetoast and Professor Honeydew continue to show the abject exiguity of residuum resulting from their secular humanist world views.

    abject exiguity of residuum?

    Excuse me while I toss my breakfast !
    You're such a pretentious a--hole !
    And just because you know how to use a thesaurus doesn't make you correct.

    Dr. Irwin Corey, the near sighted doctor of doublespeak !

    And I'm disappointed that you didn't tell me for the 63rd time about your Judeo-Christian ethics.
    It's funny how in recent months the Christian right has taken up arms over the Bush laws harming the environment, but Cee continues to carry his water.
    The Christian right, who has embraced Bush in his demogogery of gays and other issues has suddenly turned against him.They believe concern for the environment arises from Biblical injunctions about the stewardship of the Earth.
    And there IS NO DEBATE ABOUT Bush not being a good steward of the earth.
    The only ones who feel Bush is doing a great job , besides Cee, are the oil, coal, logging, mining and chemical industries as well as automakers, real estate developers and corporate agribusiness who Bush has given free rein over the health of the American people.

    So when the Christian right turns on Bush, you 'd have to be....er....someone like Cee, to not see the significance of this turnaround.

    Bush's Environmental Protection Agency has halted work on sixty-two environmental standards, the federal Department of Agriculture has stopped work on fifty-seven standards, and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration has halted twenty-one new standards. The EPA completed just two major rules... both under court order and both watered down at industry request... compared to twenty-three completed by the Clinton administration and fourteen by the Bush Sr. administration in their first two years.

    That's some record for you to be proud of , Cee !

    You fault Clinton for the timing of putting in good environmental law, but as usual you give Bush a pass for his weakening of the law.
    How pathetic is that !
    And there was a reason( not as you stated) for the timing.
    The Bush administration and their lapdog Cee, would like Americans to believe that the Clinton administration hastily and arbitrarily established this standard at the last minute,In fact, EPA took more than two decades to develop this rule, and Congress had repeatedly ordered EPA to update the standard over the last 25 years. In 1996, Congress ordered EPA action on arsenic for the third time, making January 2001 the deadline for a new standard. EPA finally proposed the new standard because NRDC( the National Defense Resource Council) sued the Bush Administration.
    That's does seem to be Bush( and the republicans) MO.That in order for there to be sound environmental policy, instead of them doing the right thing, they have to be sued to do the right thing.
    Since there is not only a lack of leadership in being a "steward of the earth"but a blatant disregard for the health of the American people, the states are having to override Bush's dangerous environemtnal policies.
    The Northeast States were so concerned over Bush relaxing the air pollution standands for US power plants in the midwest( and thus being affected by the winds that travel east) that they had to sue the Bush administration.
    In 2003, the Federal Court blocked the Bush Administration plan to cripple key Clean Air Act provisions.
    This is not debatable. It's a matter of public record.
    Another example of states having to do Bush's job for him is when California, joined by national and international dignitaries who have been leaders in the fight against global climate change and Gov. Schwarzenegger signed AB 32 by Assembly Speaker Fabian Nunez (D-Los Angeles), California's landmark bill that establishes a first-in-the-world comprehensive program of regulatory and market mechanisms to achieve real, quantifiable, cost-effective reductions of greenhouse gases.
    So citizens, states and Federal courts need to step in not only to make policy where Bush is hiding his head in the sand over , but to protect the air we breathe and health of our citizens.

    Dr. Irwin Corey also is "sure that my VERY FEDERALLY regulated local water company is doing their job."
    With George Bush in charge of the federal government and his track record, Cee says he trusts them.How funny is that !
    We have also seen how the FDA protects us and our food supply with the recent outbreaks of E. Coli bacteria.
    Now why would anyone not trust the FDA?
    Let's go all the way back to July for that answer:

    WASHINGTON - July 20 - The Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) today released survey results that demonstrate pervasive and dangerous political influence of science at the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Of the 997 FDA scientists who responded to the survey, nearly one-fifth (18.4 percent) said that they "have been asked, for non-scientific reasons, to inappropriately exclude or alter technical information or their conclusions in a FDA scientific document." This is the third survey UCS has conducted to examine inappropriate interference with science at federal agencies.

    The FDA regulates products vital to the well-being of all Americans, including food, drugs, vaccines, and medical devices.To fully protect public health and safety, the FDA must have the best available independent scientific data.

    That is obviously not happening under this president

    To any concerned citizen, that would cause a red alert especially when you add the past 6 years of what our president's "steward of the earth" policies have been.

    But to Cee, it's all a game to him.A intellectual challenge to out debate and obscure the realities of the president " he almost always agrees with."

    Imagine a physican not being appalled over these documented examples.

    But Cee will tell me his about Judeo-Christian background , pontificate about mine and environmentalists "secular humanism", and invent an alternate universe where George Bush is vigilant with keeping our land, water and air clean and safe , stands up to polluters and corporate interests, and is a good steward of the earth.

    Cee, you've lost this debate when you tried to type the first word in defending George Bush's policies on public health and the environment.

    Incoming Democratic committee chairmen say they will hold a series of hearings and investigations early next year to build the case for their call for a phased withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq and for possible action against defense contractors found to have wasted billions in federal funds.

    The emerging plans to grill administration officials on the conduct of the war are part of a pledge for more aggressive congressional oversight on issues such as prewar intelligence, prisoner treatment at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, and the government's use of warrantless wiretaps.

    The past 6 years the GOP Congress has been negligent in holding this president accountable for his actions. Finally we MAY get justice and get to the bottom of these horrors.

    (Funny how the GOP Congress in the 90's felt a semen stain was worthy of review , but not the above)

    Or we can take Cee's approach and just say none of it ever happened.
    A true patriot !

    ( as our forefathers are rolling in their graves !)

    KITZBHEL, Austria, Dec. 15 . How balmy has it been in the Alps these last few months? At the bottom of the Hahnenkamm, the famously treacherous downhill course in this Austrian ski resort, the slope peters out into a grassy field. And it's just 10 days before Christmas.

    Two skiers walking across a patch of grass at the foot of a Kitzbhel ski slope. Experts say the Alps are heating up twice as fast as elsewhere.

    Snow cannons are showering clouds of white crystals over the slopes, but by midmorning each day, the machines have to be turned off because the mercury has risen too far for the fake snow to stick.
    If venturing outdoors without a jacket is not enough evidence, there are two new studies, one that says the Alps are the warmest they have been in 1,250 years and another that predicts that an increase of a few more degrees would leave most Alpine resorts with too little snow to survive.

    But the bozos at this site( and the Bush Administration) doubt it's even happening, and want a "wait and see" approach.

    Thank God, there is a change of leadership and maybe some hope for the future.

    KITZBHEL, Austria, Dec. 15 . How balmy has it been in the Alps these last few months? At the bottom of the Hahnenkamm, the famously treacherous downhill course in this Austrian ski resort, the slope peters out into a grassy field. And it's just 10 days before Christmas.

    Two skiers walking across a patch of grass at the foot of a Kitzbhel ski slope. Experts say the Alps are heating up twice as fast as elsewhere.


    Snow cannons are showering clouds of white crystals over the slopes, but by midmorning each day, the machines have to be turned off because the mercury has risen too far for the fake snow to stick.
    If venturing outdoors without a jacket is not enough evidence, there are two new studies, one that says the Alps are the warmest they have been in 1,250 years and another that predicts that an increase of a few more degrees would leave most Alpine resorts with too little snow to survive.

    But the bozos at this site( and the Bush Administration) doubt it's even happening, and want a "wait and see" approach.

    Thank God, there is a change of leadership and maybe some hope for the future.

    Two comments that illustrates the kind of warped thinking of Olbermann fans:

    Josh: "Has Olbermann lied about O'Reilly? I don't know. Probably. But, certainly no more than O'Reilly has lied about Olbermann."

    Josh, find me one time O'Reilly has even MENTIONED Olbermann on his show and win valuable prizes. Olby, in contrast, has made BOR the Worst Person in the World 142 times! And in many of those instances, the information or quotes have been taken out of context, been misleading, or were outright lies as pointed out on this site.

    Mike: Another exciting Friday night for Mike, who grants us a post at 12:26 AM during prime holiday party time season. With that glowing, positive perspective that he always needs to share with us on this site, how could he not be the Belle of the Ball?

    Anyway, Mike says of Olbermann that, "I'm not really a 'fan', but he says things that need to be said that no one else is saying. I think that is what really bothers you, isn't it?"

    The reason Olbermann is saying what no one else dares to utter is because most other journalists live in reality, and therefore don't try to make news out of what was "reported" (unconfirmed) by Bush-hating bloggers throughout the day.

    It's what Olbermann DOESN'T say that bothers me. This week alone: Nothing on the Holocaust Conference, nothing on the new highest-ranking member of the House Intellegence Committee not knowing if Al-Qaeda is Sunni or Shia, or who Hezbollah is affliated with. If a Republican did this, it would be the LEAD story on Countdown, which IS a news show.

    OK, I've made my point so it's back to Christmas gift wrapping. Even with the horrible economy Mike claims the U.S. is suffering through, I was able to somehow manage to purchase a few gifts for the family.


    The Professor has lost it....The drive to ensconce radical environmental dogma into federal law is just as active and lucrative an industry as any regulatory behemoth the federal government has created under liberal fascists over the last 40 years....like:

    OSHA
    FDA
    SEC
    DHHS
    Department of Education

    You see Professor Honeydew, the world view that brings you to say The President of The United States, (his/her powers "were" enumerated in The Constituion), is PERSONALLY responsible for the safety of my drinking water abdicates the power of local communities and the states their power.

    Honeydew really says,

    "POTUS is my daddy/mommy who feels my pain and can solve all of my problems."

    Bob, you are pathetic.

    I appreciate a federal executive who does not scramble for authoritarian power over every aspect of my personal or my business' daily life.

    I appreciate a federal executive who has the right priorities to protect my country from enemies who want to kill us with bombs....either in rental trucks (1993) or via aircraft fuel (2001). Mr. Clinton screwed that priority up pretty nicely during his pathetic reign of neglect and has put us in this mess.

    Collectively, much of the domestic regulation should be in the hands of the states or local communities...not in the central government.

    Collectively, the federal government should be mainly concerned about threats too big for the smaller states and community to face.....The military and macroeconomic issues.

    Professor Honeydew wants us all to bow to the power he erects in Washington to run our lives.

    The actual federal systems you liberals have set-up are self perpetuating and require more and more money and manpower to exist.

    And the bigger these bureaucracies get, the less freedom we all have.....the true definition of Fascism.

    The bureaucracies are wasteful and as corrupt as any business entity or corporation you socialists can comment on.

    Your global warning alarmists and radical ennivronmental theories have been shot down time and again on this site, Professor. I would try to peddle your Gore dogma somewhere else.

    With regards to the extreme regulation of drinking water....most experts agree that 10ppb would be perfectly safe....but who cares what they say....the feds want 5ppb.....

    "The federal arsenic standard is currently 50 ppb, but the 1996 Safe Drinking Water Act Amendments required USEPA to establish a new standard based upon updated science and cost-benefit analysis by January 1, 2001.

    "In March, the National Research Council (NRC) released its Report on Arsenic in Drinking Water, which linked arsenic to increased rates of skin, lung and bladder cancer. As a result, the report recommended the existing standard be lowered from 50 ppb, but did not specify a level it deemed acceptable.

    "Upon the release of the NRC report, AWWA publicly endorsed the report's findings, and called for the arsenic standard to be reduced so as to ensure public health.

    "In October, AWWA wrote to James Taft, USEPA's Targeting and Analysis Branch Chief, recommending that the standard for arsenic be set at no less than 10 ppb. AWWA based its recommendation on the following:

    "Aside from bladder cancer, the NRC did not quantify what health risks could be associated with exposure to low levels of arsenic, and would not be able to prior to a new arsenic standard being finalized.

    "The NRC was unable to fully assess the risk of lung cancer posed by arsenic and would not be able to prior to a new arsenic rule being finalized.

    "USEPA has conceded that the health risks associated with arsenic are not well established in U.S. populations, and that further evaluation of arsenic's health impacts on Americans were needed before a final decision could be made on arsenic's threat to American public health.

    "There is a possibility that a regulation requiring extremely low arsenic concentration levels would outpace existing treatment technology.

    "Some treatment chemicals contain trace amounts of arsenic. If the arsenic standard was reduced below 10 ppb, an entire treatment process could be negated without any scientific basis for doing so.

    "Despite AWWA's recommendation, a November 12 Inside the EPA article reported that USEPA was planning to propose a rule based upon a standard of 5ppb and sought comment on standards of 3 ppb and 10 ppb. A standard below 10 ppb will render thousands of drinking water systems noncompliant, including some surface water systems, and cost the industry well in excess of $1 billion per year."

    http://www.awwa.org/Advocacy/pr/991130.cfm

    Mr Clinton tried to ram it through when the science was lacking and negotiation should have continued to reach a moderate alternative. Bush was being reasonable and the American people were not in any danger of being poisoned by the evil corporations. The radical left loves to use fear.

    So Bob (Professor Honeydew), your argument is silly and indicative of someone incapable of realizing he has bought (hook, line and sinker) into a mommy state that will continue to rob him of freedom as time passes.

    Your other pathetic points of view will be dispatched in due course, Professor. So far, 3-0.

    Mike:

    It is not of what he said and he did bothering me. I just want to have some fun after a few weeks of perparing my final project for a class. It is done and submiitted and I am relaxing reading and writing blogs. I used to like KO, not anymore, he is a hyprocite and a damn good actor.

    Aonther point....What a biased organization to use in your argument, Professor Honeydew...

    The Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) is as skewed as they come. I would not trust a single piece of research they come out with. More liberal propaganda dressed up as "scientific endeavor."

    You can do better with talking points, Honeydew!

    I only saw a few moments of Countdown, and it reminded me why I stopped watching Keith and his show, the worst hour on television on a daily basis.

    He accuses Bill O'Reilly of lying. JD correctly points out that KO routinely lies and distorts regarding O'Reilly, so I take what he as to say with a grain of salt.

    But then he gloats about ratings in his coveted demo...if I heard correctly, he claimed that O'Reilly had only 3,000 more viewers in the 25-54 demo than did he the night before.

    But...isn't O'Reilly on vacation?
    Doesn't that make the comparision invalid?
    Doesn't that make KO's assertion misleading,if not an alright lie?

    It amazes me how anyone can defend Keith Olbermann anymore.

    What he does in hs personal life is noeo of our business. It does bother me, I used to like him and watched him every night, when he said something on air bashing someone behavior and when he is off air, he did the same thing and then when people talking and bashing him, he can't take it and deny it. What a hypocrite. He should be nominated the best daytime soap opera actor. Why do I trust him of what he said on air then? Besdies, he did very little of his show now, the quality of the show is much worse than before. I watched and taped him since 2003 until this summer. Some of the shows in the past are really good and he did write it, but not anymore.

    "It's what Olbermann DOESN'T say that bothers me. This week alone: Nothing on the Holocaust Conference . . ."

    As usual, RedState is spot on. Earlier this week, I was reading some of the posts of Olbyloons trying to cover Orange Boy's ass on this deplorable omission. They were claiming that Holocaust deniers can't be called out because it only gives them more attention which is what they want and that only morons belive this stuff, so why bother?

    This is completely disingenous. What if we adopted that attitude about all forms of evil? Just don't talk about it and it will all go away.

    Earth to Olbyloons: Holocaust denial isn't just some passing fad. In Europe, there is a significant and growing number of people, especially students who have bought in completely to Holocaust denial. How are we going to get the truth to these misguided souls if we just turn our heads away and say "Can't mention it, it only draws attention to them"?

    Secondly, shedding light on this evil is important in this day and age, not just because of the substance of this wretched endeavor, but because it exposes the methods of thinking that are the basis for the conclusions reached by the Holcaust deniers. By using intelligent reporting, this way of thinking (painting the victims as complicit in the "conspiracy", labelling those who don't go along with Holcaust denial as "spies", discounting authentic documents that undercut the "conspiracy", etc.) can be shown for the house of cards that it is. Therefore, other fringe theories that are gaining favor among haters (9/11 was an inside job, the presidential election was "rigged by a "stolen" vote) can also be discredited because such theories depend upon the same lazy and uncritical thinking.

    And here, I think, is where we find the real reason that Olbermann refuses to report on something as awful and significant as the Holocaust denial. Using critical reporting to expose Holcaust deniers as people with dishonorable motives using lazy, uncritical thinking hits too close to home for Olbermann. His own pet theories (the 2004 presidential vote was "stolen" in Ohio, Karl Rove's pending indictment) are also a product of a person with dishonorable motives using lazy, uncritical thinking. Olbermann deserves every bit of criticism he receives at this site and more.

    "In Europe, there is a significant and growing number of people, especially students who have bought in completely to Holocaust denial."

    Um, you do know that in many countries in Europe it is ILLEGAL to deny the Holocaust. Austria, Belgium, The Czech Republic, France, Germany, Lithuania, The Netherlands, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Switzerland all have specific laws (punishable by prison time) against denying the holocaust. The United Kingdom does not have a criminal statute, but instead relies upon its civil libel laws to curtail deniers.

    "How are we going to get the truth to these misguided souls if we just turn our heads away and say "Can't mention it, it only draws attention to them"?"

    We're not. They are absolutely convinced just as there are still people who are convinced that JFK was killed by the CIA, that 9/11 was an inside job and that Timothy McVeigh was a fall guy for the Murrah Federal Building bombing. You can't change their minds any more than you can live without oxygen.

    There are a lot of honest-to-God battles out there to fight. This isn't one of them.

    "I see among other things, that Rosie O'Donnell(D) make fun of Chinese people on the view did not rate for a WPITW mention..."

    Well, she didn't get smashed by Bill O'Reilly either...or Joe Scarborough...or Glenn Beck...in fact, I'm going to agree with Bill O'Reilly on this one - "O'Donnell's riff wasn't a taunt, it was meant to be funny. I don't think she meant to hurt anybody's feelings. This wasn't a Michael Richards moment, it was done for a laugh. If I felt she was eager to insult you, I would go after her."

    Anonymous says:

    "you do know that in many countries in Europe it is ILLEGAL to deny the Holocaust. The United Kingdom . . .relies upon its civil libel laws to curtail deniers."

    So what? Are these laws working Anon? Is Holocaust denial on the rise or on the wane? Why were such laws implemented in the first place if Holocaust denial is such an insignicant problem?

    Just because there are some ardent belivers in Holocaust denial who will never change their minds, is that a good reason to stick our heads in the sand and not report on something this ghastly? No matter what laws you write, the haters are out there trying to get their message out to the unconverted. Intelligent reporting can expose Holocaust denial for the hoax that it is so people who willing to listen to both sides will not fall sway to the Holocaust deniers.

    You didn't bother to address my other reasons in my previous post why a responsible reporter of news should have at least mentioned this development.

    Here is something else to think about. There are insidious consequences to pretending that this Holocaust denial conference is harmless and that we should go about our merry way unconcerned:

    "Questioning the reality of the Holocaust has long been another means of questioning the legitimacy of the state of Israel, which was indeed created by the United Nations in response to the Holocaust, and which has indeed incorporated Holocaust history into its national identity. If the Shiite Iranians are looking for friends, particularly among Sunni Arabs, Holocaust denial isn't a bad way to find them."

    http://www.slate.com/id/2155328/?GT1=8900

    But, no matter Anonymous. As you say:

    "There are a lot of honest-to-God battles out there to fight. This isn't one of them."

    Yeah, like Richard Gere and the rumors about his "encounters" with gerbils, a story that was prominently featured on Meltdown on the day that this Holocaust denial conference was ongoing.

    Johnny D does indeed document, with links but you're too big of a chickenshit to click on them to find out the truth about Olbermann and his lies and distortions.

    And Jane? Good points one and all. Character does indeed count and that's why Olbermann's personal life is a reflection of the man and not a good one at that.

    If Keith were doing a sports show, then I probably won't care that much about his characters, but he is delivering "news" to our living room. We depned on newscaster reporting the truth.

    I don't care what Kobe Bryant did at Colordo, I will still watch him play for he is the best. However, I will not watch Pete Rose playing baseball, for he gambled on it and that is fixing. Same as Keith, he can make up news without checking facts depending on websites to get him headlines to report to us, I don't know about you, I do not have time and it is not my job, it is his, to check the facts. He is still claiming Countdown is a newscast, reporting news, then please report the fact not second-hand "fictions", ideas, commentary ......

    Puck you moron:

    You just can't answer a post you don't agree with anything without hurling around little inane insults, can you. It's just beyond your tiny, simple, narrow little mind to express a counterpoint without taking the low road!

    You call me a 'sheep' because I defended Olbermann because he is saying a lot of the things I want SOMEONE to say to he American people, the majority of which can't even tell you who the speaker of the house is, much less what is really going on! I believed what I believe long before Olbermann came along, so there goes your stupid 'sheep' theory.

    You want to talk about 'sheep'! Look at the flood of radio and TV shows with conservative 'shepards' leading their 'dittohead' sheep along such as Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, O'Reilly, Beck, Ingram, etc., etc. They are everywhere...you guys need them, but I can't get away from them. You just can't stand for there to be someone on the other side of the spectrum countering with some common sense! Intollerance from the right is exactly this site exists, and thats why you come here. You don't believe in "live and let live", otherwise you wouldn't waste your time hurling insults and criticism at someone you don't have to watch or even acknowledge.

    Only a MORON like you counters things they don't like to hear with insults that almost always apply more to themselves than it does to the one they are aiming at. But every one of your posts has that kind of a "trailer trash" tone to it!

    If you want to step out from under your filthy rock and discuss something using mutual respect, I'm ready, but if you can't do anything but hurl around labels and insults, shut the hell up!

    Kudos, Mike.

    for a great example of right-wing herd behavior refer to the Daily Show's frequent features on uniform talking points appearing simultaneously across the spectrum of rightie politicians and pundits. These segments are always hillarious but disturbing - the frequently bizzare phrasology used by each and every Republican talking head is always identical word for word. Sheep, no doubt - fascist sheep.

    Typical Mike...he has no problem with Olbermann ignoring the Holocaust Conference, then tells people to stop taking to low road, only to proceed to call a poster a MORON (in CAPS, no less) and trailer trash (people who live in trailers are Americans too, Mike).

    Merry Christmas, indeed...

    A lot of people on this site complain about every little character flaw they see in Keith. Yes Keith clearly DOES have some character flaws. The counter to that is that is that so do most of the pundits out there. If I can't overlook a character flaw or two, then I need to throw away my TV.

    To me, probably the most fair and balanced pundits out there are Paula Zahn and Anderson Cooper of CNN. They do there best to hide their biases most of the time, but they can't hold a candle to O'Relly's ratings either. So being even, fair, and unbiased is clearly not the formula for success either.

    Being opinionated clearly IS one way to achieve better ratings...O'Reilly proves that every day.

    Keith's show is more lively and entertaining than most of them and does offer a different perspective.....and there's nothing wrong with that.

    Typical Redstate: Showing his biases and low IQ with every post he makes. Did you bother to read the post I was responding too before lashing out?

    "Keith's show is more lively and entertaining than most of them and does offer a different perspective.....and there's nothing wrong with that."

    Or no perspective whatsoever on items that can hurt Democrats or are extremely important events such as the Holocaust Conference, right Mike?

    You must have meant, "...responding to", IQ boy. I don't believe that "responding too" is correct. How did you pass that GED course anyway?

    And I'm a she, you misogynist pig.

    By the way Redstate:

    Have you bothered to read and understand the posts I have been making here? I have ADMITTED many times that Keith and his show has flaws! Redstate, we ALL have flaws....look in the mirror, for God's sake!

    I wish he HAD covered the Holocaust denial myself, but that ommission doesn't make it a bad show. I don't know what he was thinking, but there are some good arguments out there that ignoring the ravings of nuts such as those that would deny established history, such as the Holocaust is the best way to deal with them.

    Ratings are from us, the viewers, whom are separted by the two majority parties in this country, either blue or red. Independence are not many out there. Keith used to be neutral and his show is not as political as before. And I like it. Unfortunately his ratings before were wanderings around 300,000 to 400,000 viewers per night. Viewers and ratings are the driving forces to push him to where he is now. And of course his huge giant ego, ever wants to beat his buddy at Fox. I personally like to watch neutral shows, and that is why I stop watching Countdown.

    Redstate: So now your going after simple spelling errors in hurried posts and gender identification errors when you know damned well there is no way I could have known you were female.

    I wouldn't mind debating you if you wouldn't keep addressing all your posts to me beginning with "typical Mike", and following it up with an insult or a stereotype.

    Yeah, ignoring Hitler throughout the 30s was a grand idea. Ask the six million Jews that perished how not bringing attention to such nefarious plans worked out for them.

    As usual, your arguments hold no water whatsoever.

    I'm heading out for the night. Look forward to reading the rest of your Saturday night pontificating while some of us still enjoy everything this country has to offer instead of complaining about it 24/7 (See: Mike).

    Mike,

    Regarding the things you want said to the American people: If one says those things on the air is one still a "journalist"?

    Um...it's "you're going", so now we're off spelling and on to grammar. Mike originally said, "Redstate: So now your going after simple spelling errors in hurried posts..."

    You're (used correctly) the one who attacked my IQ, so I'm simply pointing out your basic academic flaws.

    Good night and good luck!

    Rico:

    I have never tsken exception to your "keith is not a journalist" argument. If he calls himself one, he is smiply wrong. That said, I think you and this site are obscessing on this one point.

    I wish he WOULD come out and call his show an opinion show, nor do I think it would hurt him a bit. If he did, would you guys ease off of him?

    I'll be out for a while so if you answer, I'll get back to it later.

    Redstate: You forget, you attacked me first...More than once! Could you possibly consider addressing me as something other than "typical Mike" the next time you address me or my posts. That would help keep us off the low road.

    Mike,

    We agree on something! Miracles do happen.

    Two skiers walking across a patch of grass at the foot of a Kitzbhel ski slope. Experts say the Alps are heating up twice as fast as elsewhere.
    ==================================================
    That seems more of a local warming problem than a global warming problem. Any chance they are suffering from the urban heat island effect?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    If venturing outdoors without a jacket is not enough evidence, there are two new studies, one that says the Alps are the warmest they have been in 1,250 years and another that predicts that an increase of a few more degrees would leave most Alpine resorts with too little snow to survive.
    ==================================================
    wow! a whole 1250 years?????well when you put it like that...

    Wait a minute, aren't they alps a bit older than a young 1250? Yeah, i'm sure that over the BILLIONS of years the earth has been around, the alps have NEVER gone through anything like this before.

    For a minute there you had me worried till i realized that 1250 is like... NOTHING compared to the age of the earth. Heck even mankind's been around longer than that.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    But the bozos at this site( and the Bush Administration) doubt it's even happening, and want a "wait and see" approach.

    Thank God, there is a change of leadership and maybe some hope for the future.
    ==================================================
    Ummm.... bob if you bothered reading, then you might realize that I never said that this WASN'T happening, what i've been trying to say is A) that this is no fault of ours and B) that even if we tried, we'd have little to no effect on this.

    "I wish he WOULD come out and call his show an opinion show, nor do I think it would hurt him a bit. If he did, would you guys ease off of him?"

    No. I will ease off when he agrees to have guests who dissent from his viewpoint. As it is now, since all guests on his show agree with every position he takes, he gets away with sloppy research, distortions and outright lies because no one challenges him.

    You will never see this though because Keith has every reason to feel "queasy" about a debate format-- because his fraudulent "reporting" would get carved up.

    Fred Barnes is a pile of shit.. look at him talking hoping that the senator dies... I hope Barnes dies... tonight.

    Hank:

    I DO see that but I disagree that EVERY show needs to be a 'debate' show. Variety is the spice of life, and political shows.

    Cable TV News is going to really get dull when every show is formatted exactly the same way.

    "Fred Barnes is a pile of shit.. look at him talking hoping that the senator dies... I hope Barnes dies... tonight. "
    Posted by: Bill O'lielly at December 16, 2006 06:05 PM
    GERBIL BOY returns!
    no O'lielly why don't you do us all a favore and die yourself you moronic gerbil herder.
    you are about the dumbest a--hole to ever post here or anywhere else.
    Die you rectal rodent die! and do it quietly!

    From the NY Post:

    WHICH closeted TV news anchorman uses Craigslist.com to troll for gay sex partners? One of his conquests is complaining now because the anchor is using his photo to solicit other men. When he complained, the anchor threatened him with physical violence.

    Olberfaggot?

    no wonder he can't get it up and keep it up when he's with a woman.

    So Bill O'Reilly is in Iraq. For the record that makes both Sean Hannity and Bill-O who have traveled to Iraq in the past two weeks. And Keith? The "Edward R. Murrow" of his generation? Why he only travels to Hollywood and to Florida (during spring training only). To him field reporting is something you do from a baseball field, not from the actual BATTLEFIELD.

    To Bill Oliely:

    Yet another post, of what Fred Barnes, actually said. If only you actually cared about truth and honesty.

    I see that your politics are far more important.

    It will probably be someone like YOU to say that someone should die to help your personal political beliefs ... Oh wait ... what a surprise, it was YOU, wishing Fred Barnes, Fox News Contributor would die.

    Extreme politics like yours are shameful, it leads down a dark road to where bloodshed for your ideology is an accepted norm. (See Extreme left and right examples of communism and fascism)

    No, you did not say YOU would kill him, only implied that SOMEONE else (murder?), OR that SOMETHING else should (heart disease?).

    You sound like the extremist Bill O'liely. It is what I would expect from someone who posts with such venom and hate.

    Wait 10 seconds ... breathe ... do it again ... ok, now you can post again.

    If you are posting in an irrational state, please calm yourself, come back, and try again.

    And know you are forgiven.

    Come back with more venom, and know that I look with pity upon you.

    Robert the Realtor

    To Bill Oliely:

    Yet another post, of what Fred Barnes, actually said. If only you actually cared about truth and honesty.

    I see that your politics are far more important.

    It will probably be someone like YOU to say that someone should die to help your personal political beliefs ... Oh wait ... what a surprise, it was YOU, wishing Fred Barnes, Fox News Contributor would die.

    Extreme politics like yours are shameful, it leads down a dark road to where bloodshed for your ideology is an accepted norm. (See Extreme left and right examples of communism and fascism)

    No, you did not say YOU would kill him, only implied that SOMEONE else (murder?), OR that SOMETHING else should (heart disease?).

    You sound like the extremist Bill O'liely. It is what I would expect from someone who posts with such venom and hate.

    Wait 10 seconds ... breathe ... do it again ... ok, now you can post again.

    If you are posting in an irrational state, please calm yourself, come back, and try again.

    And know you are forgiven.

    Come back with more venom, and know that I look with pity upon you.

    Robert the Realtor

    To Bill Oliely:

    Yet another post, of what Fred Barnes, actually said. If only you actually cared about truth and honesty.

    I see that your politics are far more important.

    It will probably be someone like YOU to say that someone should die to help your personal political beliefs ... Oh wait ... what a surprise, it was YOU, wishing Fred Barnes, Fox News Contributor would die.

    Extreme politics like yours are shameful, it leads down a dark road to where bloodshed for your ideology is an accepted norm. (See Extreme left and right examples of communism and fascism)

    No, you did not say YOU would kill him, only implied that SOMEONE else (murder?), OR that SOMETHING else should (heart disease?).

    You sound like the extremist Bill O'liely. It is what I would expect from someone who posts with such venom and hate.

    Wait 10 seconds ... breathe ... do it again ... ok, now you can post again.

    If you are posting in an irrational state, please calm yourself, come back, and try again.

    And know you are forgiven.

    Come back with more venom, and know that I look with pity upon you.

    Robert the Realtor

    Sorry about the triple posting, the post button kept sending me to another web page.

    Robert the Realtor

    Brandon:

    I don't know about Olbermann, but Al Frankin has traveled to Iraq several times. Do you have words of praise for him, if not KO?

    I'll praise Olbermann when you praise O'Reilly. And when you admit that Olbermann doesn't report from anything except a baseball field.

    It's late. I meant to write Franken's name there.

    Mike and Brandon above,

    Too many, would be celebrities as well as reporters, travel to Baghdad, stay well inside the "green zone", heavily defended, and fortified positions in a secure area, where VIP's, foreign dignataries, various news media like the AP, as well as celibrities (yes, even the has been, reality show type ones) stay in a protected area, and can claim TRUTHFULLY that they are "reporting from Baghdad", or are "Visiting the front line troops in Iraq".

    Note that does not say, behind closed gates, barriers, fortified positions, with heavily armed US troops, with close by armor support. The ones who never leave the Baghdad Hotel in the green zone.

    Now it is fair to say, there have been a fair share of both reporters and celibrities, that have travelled outside the perimeter to the "Red Zones", into some troubled areas such as Tikrit, and Fallujah, to name just a few troubled areas in Iraq.

    Since admittedly, I am not sure, where Al Franken went, I will withold judgement on him, but I will keep a healthy dose of skepticism of all who claim to "cover the story" in Iraq, when many never actually leave a secured hotel lobby, Or like so many rooftop satellite interviews with the TV anchors, with the city as a backdrop.

    Another reminder: Most of The Iraq Study Group (ISG), travelled to Baghdad to get a look at problems in Iraq, before giving President Bush recommendations to "fix" those certain problems in Iraq. They never left the hotel, either.

    Apparently, neither does the Associated Press, who are relying on some dubious sources to go out into the streets and collect information for them:

    "Police Captain", Lt. Maithem Abdul Razzaq was mentioned as a source in 23 articles until the Iraqi government issued a warrant out for his arrest for impersonating a government official.

    Captain Jamil Hussein" is but one of 14 Iraqi-sounding names of sources quoted by AP that U.S. military officials say cannot be verified as credible sources, this Jamil Hussein was mentioned as a source in SIXTY ONE articles by the AP.

    Just try searching for "Jamil Hussein" in your search engine and see what pops up.

    Forgive me if I am too skeptical of reporting from Iraq, but I believe I have good reason.


    Redstate,

    "Josh, find me one time O'Reilly has even MENTIONED Olbermann on his show and win valuable prizes. Olby, in contrast, has made BOR the Worst Person in the World 142 times! And in many of those instances, the information or quotes have been taken out of context, been misleading, or were outright lies as pointed out on this site."

    Ahh, touche. Except that Bill has referenced Olbermann multiple times. He just simply refuses to say his name. I guess he's scared. But, nonetheless, he has been referenced. And always as a "character assassin," as if O'Reilly was anything else.

    Besides, the "lies" pointed out on this site are more often matters of technicality than of intent anyway. Such as Dollar's half baked assertion that 39% for, 20% against, and 25% don't know what the hell the ISG Report is, doesn't mean that people are for the ISG Reports reccomendations 2-to-1. It's just absurdly devisive.

    Sincerely,
    Josh

    Brandon:

    For the ten thousanth time, I have not asked you to praise Olbermann. I asked you about Frankin? I have criticized Olbermann often myself. He does however, speak the truth more often than not.

    As for praising O'Reilly, I'm sure I'll think of something if I try long enough but I don't spend my days running him down either.

    To Anon 01:06:

    I am very aware of the "Green Zone" experience most pundits have limited themselves to. Our creating the "Green Zone" into a "little America" is apparently one of the things that has created much resentment towards us by ordinary people in Iraq.

    There is a new book out about this. I can't wait to read it.

    Cee:

    I continue to read your posts with fascination. One of your recent posts stated "I want to see this enemy vanquished"....OK, that's a noble goal, who doesn't want that?

    We have already established through previous debate that you feel invading Iraq was the right thing to do, and that feel you have no personal obligation to help with the war effort through personal service, or even with higher taxation, even though we are continuing to put this war on credit.

    You also stated that you "trust George Bush 100%". Wow, what an admission that is! Even most of the Olbermann detractors on this site don't seem to want to go quite that far!

    OK, how about this: Leading generals and military experts are warning that our equipment is becomming more and more worn out and is not being replaced fast enough. They keep saying that this war cannot possibly be won without at least increasing the troop levels dramatically. Do you believe or disbelieve those things? And, if you believe them, what in your opinion, should we do about them?

    Also, since we seem to be pretty much refereeing a civil war right now, how would you define 'victory' in a setting like that? Experts seem to be pretty much in agreement that training Iraqi's to do the job themselves is the best hope for 'victory' as things stand right now. Do you disagree with that?

    Problem is, it seems many Iraqi's don't want to be 'trained' and often revert back to tribal and religious loyalties after being 'trained'. This seems to be a cycle we have been unable to break. What do we do about that?

    Our troops have done all you could possibly ask of any Army, yet we seem to be asking them to do far more than what an Army is normally trained for or is normally expected to do.

    So I ask you; How do YOU define 'victory' in Iraq, and how do yiu think we are going to achieve that 'victory' considering the present realities on the ground?

    "the frequently bizzare phrasology used by each and every Republican talking head is always identical word for word. Sheep, no doubt - fascist sheep."

    Sir Loin....The Grim Challenger is going to think you meant "left wing " sheep.
    Laughing out loud !

    Best answer to Iraq? We leave; and beg and pay and support Iran and Syria (allies to one another) in influencing a cessation of hostilities. Iran can influence the Shia and Syria can infuence the Sunni. cee is persistently on drugs.

    Bob,
    Grim is a trip. He seems for a moment here and there to be rational, but then you see that his brain entertains some crazy fundamental misconceptions regarding even the most basic definitions, concepts, and labels generally agreed upon by both sides of the political divide.

    "And I'm a she, you misogynist pig.

    Posted by: RedState at December 16, 2006 05:11 PM"

    So, Redstate; you label Mike as a misogynist just because you write like a guy?

    I love these Bleeding Heart Neocons - they never miss a chance to whine and bitch about their prefabricated PC injuries.

    So let me get this straight. Because the reporters in question don't leave the green zone, it minimizes the fact that they went to Iraq? At least they went. The only place fat-ass Olby reports from are cocktail parties with Al Gore & Bill Clinton and baseball fields. You really mean to tell me you are going to equate his "bravery" in facing the LA/NYC night life scene with those willing to get on a plane and go to Iraq? I don't care if they are in the Green Zone, that place is still plenty dangerous. Far more dangerous than knocking back cocktails with Hill, Bill, and Al baby. Honestly what excuse will you think up for him next? He's a pussy, plain, pure and simple. If he were a real man and a real journalist, he'd be out there covering the big stories. Where was he during Katrina? In a studio in Secaucus. Every single one of the other MSNBC anchors went to the Gulf Coast except one: Olbermann. Why is that? Because he refuses to be budged from the safety of his studio. Edward R. Murrow of his generation my ass! He's an actor, a poser, a fraud and you people are deluded and deranged enough to believe it. You deserve each other richly.

    OK, Kieth's A Fraud, lets accept your critique o Olbermann's character.

    What do you have to say about Michael Ware, the Austrailian reporter for TIME who has been in Iraq - outside of the Green Zone almost non-stop for the entirety of the war. His stories and commnetary are if anything more harshly critical of the war than are Olbermann's. We now you object to Olberman - that does not mean you can just ignore the facts he is talking about.

    Bob,
    Grim is a trip. He seems for a moment here and there to be rational, but then you see that his brain entertains some crazy fundamental misconceptions regarding even the most basic definitions, concepts, and labels generally agreed upon by both sides of the political divide.
    ====================================================
    Sure beef, if you consider 'the left' to be 'both sides' of the debate.

    There are PLENTY (if not most) on the right that all agree that fascism is left of center.

    Apparently your line of thinking is: "All agree upon _____. (this large segment over here who disagree... they don't count because they disagree.)

    Cee thinks that any federal organization that's job is to be an organization of oversight or a WATCHDOG to protect the American people are "liberal fascists" and they want to create a "MOMMY STATE"

    This extreme right wing thinking totally discredits him and reveals his alliance with corporations, presidents and dictators who run roughshod over the health and safety of people.

    Plus I didn't not say that the president is PERSONALLY responsible for your drinking water.
    ( one thing I have noticed at this site is that in order to ATTEMPT to rebut anything , they just have to plain make up things to do it.)
    The president sets the tone that is filtered down thru all federal agencies.He also ( SHOULD) use the science that his scientists give him to make important decisions. But it's been common knowledge and been proved that these very scientists have been asked, for non-scientific reasons, to inappropriately exclude or alter technical information or their conclusions in a scientific documents.

    Dr. Irwin Corey's views come in direct conflict with our founding fathers, who realized that in order to stave off corruption and abuse by one branch of government, they set up 3 branches of government to assure a balance of power.

    If anyone's views come from the fascist philosophy, it is Cees.
    He doesn't think ANY GROUP should counter Bush's assault on the health and environment of this country.
    And if they do, he has words of condemnation for them.
    Whatever Cee's motivation for allowing a president to not be a good steward of the earth, it certainly doesn't come from the Judeo/Christian code of ethics..just as I have documented the right wing turning on Bush's policies on the environment.

    He also laughably says "Your global warning alarmists and radical ennivronmental theories have been shot down time and again on this site".
    No Cee, the ones being laughed at in 2006 America are the ones who say the jury is still out of the causes of global warming.

    Another of Dr. Corey's boners is that "Bush was being reasonable and the American people were not in any danger of being poisoned by the evil corporations. The radical left loves to use fear."

    I just may used this quote to have my students pick apart the fallacies in that statement.They'll have a field day with that one.
    NO Cee, Bush is reasonable to let the oil companies ( create energy policy) and polluters do their thing. And this admininstration hasn't used fear for 5 years to push thru their policies.

    Cee still lives in the bubble where George Bush 's Iraq War has been a success, he's fought the corporations to protect our land air and seas,and that our trillion dollar debt WILL NOT aversely affect future generations.

    And anyone, skilled, expert or novice that disagrees with that assessment is called a liberal fascist or worse.

    Cee thinks he is winning 3-0 where the truth lies more in an example of that old Monty Python skit where two warriors are fighting with swords. One of them gets both arms cut off, then one leg, and then hopping on one leg , continues to scream that he's winning and WILL WIN this fight.As the last word is streaming from his throat, his head is cut off.

    Whether Cee gets incredible tax breaks, owns stock in Halliburton or whatever the motivation for his unamerican views, they certainly don't come from Judeo -Christian ethics.
    His views are aligned with "trusting the government " to do the right thing, even after they have proven to do just the opposite for the past 6 years.
    He aligns himself with polluters, corporations and lying administrations.
    Nice Cee.

    To further "debate" with someone who disagrees with the basic foundations of our Constitution and system of government is a waste of time and useless endeavor.
    You should do what the USA is ultimately going to have to do in Iraq. Falsely claim victory and get out ! ( claim you won this debate before you embarrass yourself any further.)

    Ware has at least been there. Olbermann hasn't. And the point is that Olbermann hasn't been ANYWHERE unless you want to count Beverly Hills & Manhattan cocktail parties as "reporting from the field." You can't defend that because it's indefensible so instead you throw up some analogy with Ware. Typical Olbyloon logic at it's finest.

    here are PLENTY (if not most) on the right that all agree that fascism is left of center.

    Of course Grim, it's common knowledge the right has reinvented definitions of the word "liberal", where fiscal responsibility was a foundation of their philosophy but now is not very important,where nation building was a "liberal outrage" but now the standard MO for the Bushies...on and on...
    Many on the right like Cee and Grim live in an alternate universe where they think they can even reinvent American History books and the bulk of Webster's Dictionary.

    Keith's a Fraud,

    Stop it! I'm not defending Olbermann. I'm trying to find out if you are being honest about what your greivances are. I will concede entirely that Olberman may be a shifteless, cowardly, self-interested individual - but I want to see how you deal with people who SAY THE SAME THINGS - or who offer even more harsh assessments of Bush's war - but who cannot be tarred with your favored character assassination.

    "There are PLENTY (if not most) on the right that all agree that fascism is left of center."

    ...and none of you have any idea what you are talking about.

    Complete BS Sir Loin of Beef!

    "Sir" Hamburger: You want to find out if I'm being "honest" about my grievances? LOL! What can be more honest than saying he's a pussy who won't go out of his comfort zone (Beverly Hills/Manhattan Cocktail Parties and Baseball Fields)? I have respect for anyone who goes to Iraq period. At least they TRIED to find out what was going on and report on it. That's more than Olbermann will EVER do. I don't know how much plainer I could have made myself when I said, "At least Ware has been there." What you want out of me is some protest of the war, some slur at Bush. Apparently it's only THOSE types of people whose word you will take. That's not what we're debating here.

    I'm talking about Olbermann's failure to cover any story unless he can do it from the safety of his studio or a celeb-filled cocktail party or premiere of some sort(usually a Democratic fundraiser).

    He's biased. He won't go into a the field to cover a story. He refuses to have guests on who have a different opinion than his own and you want to know if I'm being "honest" in my assessment of him? Please. You're the one who isn't being honest in your assessment of him by your continued, feeble defenses of him. He's a pussy. A coward. A biased individual who is presenting opinion disgused as news. In short, he's a joke. And you people are stupid enough to take him seriously. Deluded much there are you? How about you be honest about what Olbermann is and isn't for a change?

    Look, go to DU. Go to Kos. What will you see? Posts full of praise for the likes of Castro & Chavez. Half of the left are commie-lovers. The other half are just for anyone who is against Bush.

    Look, go to DU. Go to Kos. What will you see? Posts full of praise for the likes of Castro & Chavez. Half of the left are commie-lovers.

    Oh really!
    Please provide some evidence.

    "Commie- lovers".TDF.

    Folks like Grim are trying to redefine Fascists as extreme left wingers because if fits their personal worldview that 'left' of 'liberal' represents all things bad, and 'right' or conservative' represents all that is good.

    You know; 'Conservative' = good, & Liberal = 'bad'.

    Unfortunately for his worldview, it's not like that. The EXTREME of either left or right is alway 'bad', and both have their extremists.

    Fasciscism is very much an extreme right wing ideology and no amount of spinning will change that!

    With pleasure. Let's start with this thread shall we?
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2638333

    with quotes including these American-loving, Cuban/Castro/Chavez loving gems:

    "Raul's analysis of the mess Bush has put us into is quite correct. I am sure that the Bush regime will fail to take advantage of Raul's overture for negotiations."

    "Chavez and Morales are 21st century leftists--"

    "I am coninced that the miami cubans are bad people"

    "but Mr. Raul Castro embodies the spirit of the revolution that the Cuban people continue to embrace."

    "How ironic that the torture and other human rights violations in Cuba are all confined to the US Naval base at Guantanamo."

    And this one:
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2633598

    "Fidel Castro is one of the greatest revolutionary statesman of the twentieth century. Not always right, and he didn't always make choices that I would want to accept, but look at what he did for Cuba. Viva Fidel!"

    and this one from the same thread,
    "I agree with your assessment, except that.. .. the social infrastructure within Cuba - their world class universal health care systems and universal ed systems, peace, putting the welfare of children first and foremost, and the wonderful humanitarian aid that Cubans perform in so many countries - have not been achieved by Castro. These wonderful undertakings have been done by the Cuban people, working together through thick and thin. Mr Castro has underlined this point in most every one of his speeches and presentations. He has always given credit where credit is due, and that is one reason why Mr Castro is a revered revolutionary hero to the Cuban people and to so many around the world who seek justice and peace.
    The Cuban Revolution was & is the Cuban people, not just Fidel Castro.Viva the good people of Cuba!"

    To Keith's a Fraud:

    You people obc essed with KO's flaws continually miss the point with regard to those of us who arn't.

    All I think I 'know' about KO's personal life I have learned from this site, therefore I don't really know anything, because the whole point of this site is to criticize everything about one individual. I don't have a clue where he has traveled, or where he hasn't, or what reasoning there is behind it. In other words, I know nothing. But on the other hand, I really don't know anything about the personal lives of any of the other pundits either.

    I keep pointing out that what he is SAYING is what is important, because in reality, all he really is is a voice.

    None of us are getting any new ideas from him. He is just the first one who is using a national stage to say what we already believe to be true. It does take guts to do what he is doing, whether you like it or not.

    As for going to the heavily fortified Green Zone in Iraq, I don't think you would need any real courage to do that, nor would you probably learn much of anything particularly insightfull while you were there.

    Michael Ware IS the one we should all respect for having the courage to get out there and actually cover the war.

    and here, here's the google site search with dozens of threads just like the ones I've cited before. You don't have to search too far to see the Castro-loving commie-loving underbelly of DU emerge:

    http://www.google.com/search?as_q=castro&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=www.democraticunderground.com&as_rights=&safe=images

    Take your pick of links!

    Every once and awhile a more astute thinker will pop up and tell them what a bastard Castro really is but they're either shouted down or flat-out ignored. Typical. I'm just surprised DU didn't ban them for breaking out of their hive-like mentality/mob rule over there.

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2521146

    This is a link to a thread praising Chavez's "Bush is the devil" speech. And for extra-added bonuses, note their belief that the CIA was responsible for the deaths in Cambodia during Vietnam and that 9/11 was a planned implosion!

    "WOW.... Chavez kicked Bush ass ! Chavez gave a fantastic straight to the point speech, that told it just like it is... The imperialism of the US is going to destroy the world, if not stopped.
    No political side-stepping, no forked-tongue talking; Chavez spoke in the common mans language !He brought up Noam Chomskys book and recommended everyone at the UN to read it. Unbelievable speech !VIVA CHAVEZ !!!!!!
    VIVA CHAVEZ !!!!"
    and
    "The imperialism of the US is going to destroy the world, if not stopped."

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2199484&mesg_id=2199484

    And look at what we have here. An entire thread devoted to debunking the "right-wing propaganda that Chavez is a dictator."

    Brandon:

    You are making two mistakes (1) - Assuming a left wing blog represents the majority opinion for those left of center, and (2) - assuming that ANY single positive statement regarding an individual or an ideology means that the blogger 'supports' that ideology or individual.

    EVERYTHING on this earth has SOME 'good' attributes, and some 'bad' attibutes. Any itelligent analysis of anything or anyone requires that you examine both in detail.

    Mike for someone who doesn't know very much about Olbermann you seem hell-bent on defending him no matter what. He doesn't do road trips unless they involve a cocktail party, a premiere, an honor being bestowed upon him, or baseball. We've told you that and you refuse to accept it and keep pulling names out of your ass of others who have been to Iraq as if this somehow means that Olbermann gets a free pass and doesn't have to go. We get it. He says what you want to hear, it doesn't matter if it's right, just so long as he says it. It doesn't matter if he has anyone on to challenge him, because it's those challenges you don't want to hear. Just like you don't want to hear what a scared little pussy Olbermann really is, not this "brave' man you've created the myth about. We're here to shatter those myths and to prove you wrong. And we are right. And you are VERY wrong indeed.

    I'm the one making a mistake? Bob asked me to post proof that DU & Kos had defended Chavez & Castro. I provided it. I would say that Bob owes me an apology except like Olbermann, you people don't provide apologies and admit you were wrong.

    And I DID post, but you are apparently too lazy to read, that there were people there who challenged the prevailing opinions that Chavez & Castro were men to be admired and that those posters were either shouted down or completely ignored, much as you are trying to ignore the fact that I did cough up the proof that Bob challenged me to do.

    Should I keep posting these links or is it just too embarrassing for you to see in black and white?

    Oh and Mike old buddy? Re my "mistake" that ") - "assuming that ANY single positive statement regarding an individual or an ideology means that the blogger 'supports' that ideology or individual."

    Take a look at the sheer number of threads supporting Chavez and Castro. Look at the sheer number of POSTS within each thread that heap the praise on Castro & Chavez. Quite a bit of posts are devoted to mythologizing both Castro and Chavez including the link that I posted with helpful talking points to defend Chavez and his government. You know it seems to me that the prevailing opinion of those sites are that Chavez and Castro are swell guys and if you take the time to read them, you will see many denouncing the United States in favor of the type of governments that prevail in those two countries under those two dictators. What other conclusion is there to draw from that?

    Bob asked me to provide proof. I did. Now you're trying to spin the proof I provided. I don't know whether to laugh at your or sigh in disgust. But you're not really helping your side here in the least by your denials. But hey, what do I expect? Olbermann regularly denies there's any other side to a story other than the one he wants to present. So why should I expect any different out of the likes of the two of you?

    Brandon:

    Laugh or sigh, I don't care. If you'll go back and examine my post you'll see I didn't deny anything. I'm sure you can find blogs with any and all extreme opinions you care to think of.

    As for Chavez, I personally know almost nothing about him. All I know about him is the extreme posturing he has done that has made the news in this country. To me, the overall image is negative, but again, I really know very little about him. What is clear is that the people in his country like him for some reason.

    Now Brandon, does the previous paragraph sound like I was 'supporting' Chavez? It shouldn't have if you are being objective.

    others who have been to Iraq as if this somehow means that Olbermann gets a free pass and doesn't have to go.

    Posted by: Keith's a Fraud, A Coward at December 17, 2006 01:16 PM

    I agree, he travels when he goes on vacation with some young hot women. He had rather took a trip to LA for two weeks with his "daughter" and attended the Emmy. Defend him if you want to , it was a fact.

    Mike, you need to know KO more and don't be fool by him, he is a damn good actor and liar.

    And I don't really know how many times I have to repeat this, but I did point out that there was some (only a very few) who voice opposition to the posts praising Chavez and Castro, but that those individuals were either shouted down or simply ignored. However, given the sheer number of posts and sheer number of threads in support of both Castro and Chavez, I don't really see how you can continue to deny that those are the prevailing opinions regarding those two individuals on the liberal blogs, but yep, you're still trying to spin it. I guess I don't really blame you though. Widespread support of communism and vicious dictators doesn't really make your side look good does it? I'd spin too if I were you.

    Anyone else notice this trend about Mr. Mike? He posts as if he's some kind of authority on something until someone challenges him on it, and then all of a sudden, he'll retreat and post that he's just not that knowledgable about said subject.

    Mike, don't you think it's time you really educate yourself on some issues discussed here before you post your spinning defenses about something that you admitedly know very little about?

    Brandon :1st link is to the Daily Kos love for Castro.

    Like this one from your link ?

    HAVANA, Cuba (CNN) -- Cuban President Fidel Castro was undergoing intestinal surgery and provisionally handed over power in the Communist island nation to his brother Raul, according to a statement read on Cuban television Monday night.

    Maybe Brandon thinks using Castro's name in a news item is love for him.
    TDF.

    In case Brandon thinks I didn't go to his other link ...this is at the top of the page !

    Two of President Bush's staunchest domestic critics leapt to his defense Thursday, a day after one of his fiercest foreign foes called him "the devil" in a scorching speech before the United Nations.

    "You don't come into my country; you don't come into my congressional district and you don't condemn my president," Rep. Charles Rangel, D-New York, scolded Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

    House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-California, was blunt in her criticism of the Venezuelan leader. "He is an everyday thug," she said.

    Yesiree Brandon, You want me to eat crow for the democrats blasting Chavez.
    You are the fraud.

    Kos provides ANYONE an opportunity to write in and give their comments.
    I guess Brandon is against citizens giving their opinions...AND...blames the site that provides this exercize in democracy.

    Jane: I thought I made it clear I don't care about KO's personal life. If I did, I would find out about it someplace other than on THIS personal attack blog.

    Now on to what I DO care about: What is he acting and lieing about on his show? Are you calling him a closet conservative who is playing to the left just to get ratings?

    Jane: I thought I made it clear I don't care about KO's personal life. If I did, I would find out about it someplace other than on THIS personal attack blog.

    Now on to what I DO care about: What is he acting and lieing about on his show? Are you calling him a closet conservative who is playing to the left just to get ratings?

    The double post wasn't intentional. This blog does funnyg things. My first comment didn't show up after multiple refreshes so I finally went back and reposted.

    To all of you republican anti first amendment stooges, you'll love this :

    In a case that cuts right to the heart of the First Amendment, a US Army
    prosecutor has indicated he intends to subpoena Truthout Executive Director Marc
    Ash, a Truthout reporter, and two of the nonprofit news organization's regular
    contributors, to authenticate news reports they produced and edited earlier this
    year that quoted an Army officer criticizing President Bush and the White
    House's rationale for the Iraq War.

    You can read the whole article.

    http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/121306J.shtml

    To Keith's a fraud:

    Your brain works funny! Where did I retreat on anything? You see what you want to see and ignor the rest...I guess that's your secret!

    Being unsure exactly what 'retreat' you were referring to, I'll take a stab at it: I said I know little about Chavez, or about KO's personal life: So in what post did I EVER claim I knew a lot about Chavez or KO's personal life? So how did admitting I know little about either become a retreat?

    Frankly I don't think you know as much as you think you do about either one of those subjects yourself.

    As usual Bob, and exactly like your idol Olbermann, you are playing fast and loose with the facts. But hey, why would I expect anything less from someone who has egg on their face to go along with the crow they refuse to eat.

    1) I contended there was widespread support for communists like Castro and Chavez at DU.
    2) You denied that such support existed at those sites and to prove it.
    3) I did.
    4) And now, in typical Olberamnn-fan style, you're trying to weasle out of admitting I was right and you were wrong.

    The truth is painful isn't it?

    Furthermore, within one of my posts, I was the FIRST to point out that Pelosi defended Bush after Chavez compared him to the devil, but I also pointed out that she was shouted down and accused of being a "Troll" after she did by her fellow Democrats. I guess you were hoping that no one would read my post and see what Democrats are really like when one of you makes the mistake of stepping out of line from the collective "brain" at those sites, but whoops--too bad! It's there, right along with the AP article, that yes, kicked off the discussion, but nice (if not utterly pathetic) try to obscure the TRUTH once again.

    And yes, that AP article was cited within one of the threads at DU but you, typical lying liberal you are, can't admit that there were posts within that thread lavishing praise on Castro now can you?

    I guess your best hope is that your fellow libs won't be intellectually curious enough to click on those threads and to see that I'm right and you're wrong, because gosh, then you just might have to admit it and apologize for it, and we all know that you and Olby can't do either one now don't we?

    And of course when all else fails, you try and claim that I am opposed to people speaking their mind and free speech-blah, blah, blah, blah. I never said that. You're the one who wanted me to cite proof. I did. Hundreds of examples of widespread support and praise for Castro, Chavez, and Communisim. That's what you wanted me to do and I obliged you. But you just can't seem to thank me for that. I'm sorry if you don't want to admit that the prevailing opinion on both of those websites is "Chavez and Castro are Gods and to hell with the United States". I realize it isn't a very attractive look inside your typical liberal brain and I know it must be so tempting to try and use smokescreens and bogus distraction to try and take the focus off the fact that you were wrong, I proved it and you're too big of a pussy to apologize for it. But there you go, in black and white.

    Mike, it goes without saying that almost anyone knows more than you self-admittedly know about Olbermann. Or Chavez. Or Communists. Or Castro. And the fact that I do know, no doubt renders you feeling intellectually inferior. As well it should.

    What do you know exactly? The time of day? The day of the week? The month of the year? Your name? Age? Area code? Your ass from your elbow?

    Mike:

    I am just referring his personal life to his charcters, of whom you do not know much about. If you want to defend someone, then you get to know that person well. Othersiwer, I don't think I need to listen to you.

    Mike:

    He had a choice either go to Iraq or even New Orlean after the hurricane, he did not go instead he spent time at LA with his young-enough-to-be-his-daughter girlfriend and went to the Emmy award and in the expenses of MSNBC. It is a fact even his fans complained about this.

    Not a chance he will go to Iraq, he won't even go to New Orlean.

    Professor Honeydew,

    Reading your responses is very entertaining. I haven't had such fun since a poster named Colbert accused me of being a redneck. Now I am a corporatist.

    Defending the indefensable multi-headed hydra that is our federal bureaucracy is a tough job, and I see you are sincere, professor. But none of your posts are factual....they are still opinions. That is why I claimed my victories....you only employ liberal conventional wisdom and leftist sources that do not have credibility. BTW, the UN even modified their estimate on man's impact on Global Warming. Questioning the dogma that you so fastidiously defend seems only to be allowed if you are a liberal.

    Secondly, The Constitution does not support the creation of the powerful central entity we have known since the mid 20th century. My local community and my state government should be doing the things you think the federal government is doing such a fine job with, but these responsibilites were given away through the misuse of the commerce clause and the 4th Amendment among other things, to seize more and more control in Washington.

    The difference, among the thousands, between the professor and myself is that I do not assume my government has to be this way.

    It is funny how Professor Honeydew never addressed my tax burden issue or the fact the arsenic level could be safe at 10ppb. Oh well, I guess it doesn't matter.

    If you are going to use my posts professor, make sure you include my change of name for you.....I am sure many in your care are familiar with Professor Bunsen Honeydew....the muppet who's brilliant ideas always had some unintended consequences for his humble assistant. Your posts reflect an ideology that has had such an affect on our world and I thought the name appropriate.

    BTW, many of my professors in my liberal arts institution were Honeydews....I guess I just did not want to be their Beaker.

    Here's why Olbermann's personal life matters. Because he sees fit to discuss the personal lives of others on Countdown. Olbermann seems to think that it's okay for him to cite the tabloids as a source except when they are talking about his personal life, in which case he dismisses them as liars. If it's good enough for him to use on his show, why is it trash when they write about him? You can't have it both ways, both Olbermann certainly tries to convince us you can which makes him a hypocrite.

    Olbermann feels it's okay to make fun of male celebs who are with much younger women. Yet he himself lives with a 21-year old. And yet the swipes at celebs who do exactly what he does continue. Again, he evidentally believes that it's okay to have two seperate sets of rules, one that applies to him, one that applies to celebs. Yet Olbermann himself certainly wants to play Mr. Celebrity as he hobnobs with Clinton and the Rolling Stones at Clinton's birthday party, at Gore's movie premiere, at the GQ party in Beverly Hills. Again, it makes Olbermann a hypocrite.

    And sorry but the, "But Keith says want needs to be said so he can do what he wants" excuse doesn't play with me. Because that makes him and those who offer up this pitiful defense hypocrites too.

    The Left also praises Iranian President Ahmadinejad!

    Of course they do. If someone bashes Bush, they're all for them. Remember when they thought that Bob Woodward was the devil because he wrote two books praising Bush? He was accused of being a Bush Operative, a GOP insider, a former (or current) CIA Agent. Then Woodward writes one not so nice towards Bush book and all of a sudden Bob Woodward was their new hero, a prophet, many posts were made at liberal sites begging others to go buy his book and "help him out". That's the kind of fickle nature these people have. Just so long as you bash Bush you can do no wrong and no one should question you and what you do. Which is why they hate Olbermannwatch.

    "The Left also praises Iranian President Ahmadinejad!"

    Fine, Red Wolf. Here's a challenge for you: find me one prominent (and well-respected) DEMOCRAT leader who has supported Ahmadinejad. Otherwise, SHUT THE f--- UP, a--hole!

    Now now "Anonymous". You seem cranky. Why would that be? I think you're way too stressed. Maybe a nice long rest in the nut house where you belong would do you some good.

    People without a name are always cranky.

    "I think you're way too stressed."

    I'm not stressed. I'm responding to Red Wolf in a language he understands. He made an allegation and I demanded he back it up.

    And who are you to demand anyone do anything Mr/Mrs Anonymous?

    Chris Matthews has prAhmadinejad. So has Rep. John Dingell,SEN. Russ Feingold and Barbara Boxer.
    They have made comments praising him.

    Dr. Irwin Corey the master of doublespeak says:"But none of your posts are factual....they are still opinions."

    I guess when you are still screaming after losing 2 arms and a leg, that's all u can muster.
    I understand.
    Of course, you're dead wrong.
    It's hysterical that you use the UN...the whipping boy of the right.. to clutch on to some hope of your defenseless points on global warming.
    You say"the UN even modified their estimate on man's impact on Global Warming."
    That's your best point?
    Pretty weak, doncha think?
    And the funniest part is :
    6 November 2006 -- The United Nations Climate Change Conference - Nairobi 2006 got underway today with calls for action and a stark warning that climate change is fast proving to be one of the greatest challenges in the history of humankind.
    Does that sound like you have the UN on your side ?
    Too damn funny !
    YOUR side has such bizarre and looney points from: global warming is a liberal myth, to it's not that bad... to it's happening but man has nothing to do with it.
    The right, as YOU have, have been totally discredited on the issue of climate change.>>>
    NEXT>>>
    "It is funny how Professor Honeydew never addressed my tax burden issue"
    You tried to dodge and sway from my original point, and instead of focusing on it, changed it to a tax burden issue.
    I understand.
    I said the gargantuan debt is unhealthy for the American economy and will burden our children decades from now.
    Show me a respectable economist that disagrees with this point.
    You can't.
    That's why you really didn't address it and tried to change the subject by dealing with taxes.

    next>>>

    My main point of emphasis has been how George Bush's administration has sacrificed respect for the law, public health, scientific integrity, and long-term economic vitality on the altar of corporate greed.
    You have yet to disprove any of my documented points or show me how Bush is a good steward of the land.
    Because you can't.You just wave off THE facts I've provided and the mountains of documented evidence that is available on this topic(I'm not going to provide them all here)and say..."IT'S JUST AN OPINION."
    Right !
    I understand.

    Your next non point was that I never addressed"the fact the arsenic level could be safe at 10ppb."
    COULD BE SAFE?
    Again...that's your best rebuttal?I think the debating coach of your team is thinking about replacing you.

    Plus your not even accurate with THAT point.

    President Bill Clinton was the one that imposed a 10 parts per billion standard for arsenic and a brouhaha erupted when Bush suspended the standard. Congress voted to keep the new standard and the compliance deadline was January 2006. The new proposal permits drinking water to have arsenic levels of 30 parts per billion.

    Hear that Dr Doublespeak ?

    Plus doing a little more research on this issue I found," Recent evidence suggests that arsenic even at very low levels equivalent to 10 ppb in water interferes with
    hormones, making it a potent endocrine disrupter."

    Arsenic's hormone-disrupting activity may explain how arsenic
    promotes cancer. Studies of laboratory animals show that
    glucocorticoids suppress some tumors. Arsenic may promote
    cancers by interfering with this tumor-suppressing mechanism.

    These are facts...not opinions.

    Bush not only makes policies that are unsafe for Americans, he even jokes about it. At a dinner speech in March a few years ago he said, "As
    you know, we're studying safe levels for arsenic in drinking water."
    It is not entirely clear why Mr. Bush takes arsenic poisoning so lightly,( other than being an idiot..See his where are the WMD jokes ?) but it may have something to do with his ties to the
    coal industry. Burning coal is a major source of arsenic
    contamination. Many landfills contain arsenic-laden ash produced
    by coal-burning power plants. Arsenic is likely to leak out of
    these landfills, contaminating groundwater.
    Coal companies were major contributors to Bush's election campaign.
    The wood products industry, which uses arsenic to pressure-treat
    lumber, also stands to benefit from unsafe arsenic standards. A
    representative of the American Wood Preservers Institute said
    members of his organization were "relieved and delighted" by Mr.
    Bush's decision.
    I understand why.
    Yet I can't fathom why you do.

    Plus, you never addressed my point that under the president you "almost always agree with" mercury contamination has increased in our air and water.

    I understand why you didn't.

    "He makes policies that I trust for myself and my family".
    That ones a killer in the light of Bush being the worst environmental president in history.
    Even Nixon had included clean air policies during his years in the White House.

    Here's another FACT for you to chew on and deny:

    One of the hallmarks of the Bush administration's six-year effort to undercut environmental protection has been its contempt for the free flow of information. The White House opened a new front in the battle by closing the main library at the Environmental Protection Agency's Washington, D.C., headquarters.

    Another event I'm sure you're doing cartwheels over or lie again and say it's just an opinion.
    Sorry Dr. Doublespeak.
    George Bush has created a hole with his environmental policies that you just can't dig him out of, make excuses for or provide a single shred of evidence that this man "is a good steward of the land."
    I understand.

    You'd be better off explaining how the Arizona Cardinals could win the Super Bowl this year, then defend Bush with his health and environmental policies.

    For a physician who takes an oath to help people, and to support a president whose policies do just the opposite, is unconscionable.
    You should be ashamed of yourself !

    One final note:
    The priest at church today made a statement how "global warming is hurting God's green earth"
    Dr Doublespeak would categorize father as a secular humanist !
    TDF.
    It's as easy as shooting fish in a barrel to prove how full of shit the (not so good ) doctor is !

    Bob is taking Cee to the woodshed.Not unlike how daddy's friends from the ISG took junior to it.

    To Keith, the fraud:

    For someone who professes to know so damned much, you've never said one thing of substance as long as I have been reading your posts on this blog.

    I have no shame in knowing little or or having no interest in an admittantly marginal TV pundit's personal life. I focus my knowledge and beliefs on things that actually have nominal importannce. The fact that you think this kind of trash is important labels you as nothing more than an idiot.

    ALL you know how to do is HURL INSULTS, slander those whose ideas you dislike, and generally act like a jerk behind the anonimity of a computer.

    I will not address you again, and don't bother addressing me or any of my posts anymore, because you are clearly an ignoramous...a total zero, and it shows with every new post you make.

    I will not waste any more time answering any of your mindless drivel in the future.

    "They have made comments praising him."

    Ah, Red Wolf, love the assertion. Do you actually have FACTS to back it up, or are you just blowing smoke again?

    See, in the real world, people are expected to back up their assertion with fact, else they are dismissed as irrelevant. No facts from you = no relevance.

    Bye-bye.

    I have seen the above people mentioned praise ahmadinejad. Dingell called him an innovative man.
    I work and don't have time to record and save transcripts. But do the research and you'll see they have all praised Iran and Ahmadinejad.
    Like all Leftists you deny when your side makes ridiculous statements.

    Mike Wallace of 60 Minutes inverviewed Ahmadinejad this past summer. He said the following about the wacko Iranian leader:

    "He's an impressive fellow, this guy. He really is. He's obviously smart as hell."

    Rico,
    What's up homie, you always got my back!
    One love!

    To all of you republican anti first amendment stooges, you'll love this :
    ====================================================
    Why are republicans anti-first amendment now? I'm certainly not the one advocating that someone shuts up just because they disagree with me.

    Of course, I love how people like Mike or Bob or Beef advocate to "question authority" and "think for yourself" apparently have a problem when say I question authority (global warming and history 'experts') that agrees with them.

    So tell me, 'professor' (and anyone else who's reading), am I supposed to think for myself, or just think like you?

    Red Wolf,

    Teamwork, Baby! We Infidels got to stick together.

    Who cares about global warming with Islamo-Fascism on the march!

    According to Red Wolf's little world, 3/4 of the people in America is a "leftist".

    So Mike Wallace joins the LONG, LONG list of leftist Ahmadinejad 'supporters' just because he acknowleged something positive about an otherwise delusional madman?

    Sorry, Red Wolf, but YOU are the crazy one! Sorry you can't see this for yourself.

    Grim:

    Why mention my name? I certainly haven't suggested you shouldn't speak your mind. Please...speak away!

    The only ones I've railed against are the ones who can't seem to make a post without including personal insults, Your not one of those. In fact, you have made some thought provoking points.

    Also, I'm not one of those arguing that we caused or can stop Global Warming, nor do I think that is one of the more pressing issues we face.

    I doubt 3/4 of America are pro-Iran like you.

    Hey O'Reilly went to Iraq, how come your idol Olbermann doesn't go?
    I mean Al-Qaeda and the Mahdi Army would welcome him with open arms!

    Hey Anon,
    why hasn't Olbermann or other Leftists condemn Iran's Holocaust conference?

    Why do you keep asking dumb questions?

    "Like all Leftists you deny when your side makes ridiculous statements."

    I didn't deny it - I said that you hadn't proved it. Note the difference.

    And so far you haven't shown me ANY of these ridiculous statements (except for one by "lefty" Mike Wallace), so your assertion is still empty rhetoric.

    No Soup For You! Next!

    YOUR side has such bizarre and looney points from: global warming is a liberal myth, to it's not that bad... to it's happening but man has nothing to do with it.
    The right, as YOU have, have been totally discredited on the issue of climate change.>>>
    ==================================================
    Man, i so want to live in this world where one's repeated, failed predictions discredits your oponents that doubted those predictions in the first place.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    NEXT>>>
    I said the gargantuan debt is unhealthy for the American economy and will burden our children decades from now.
    Show me a respectable economist that disagrees with this point.
    You can't.
    ==================================================
    oh oh, i can!
    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjYwYmZlMjM3N2UzZTQ1ZTUwNmUwZjkyMTc4MGRkZDc=
    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTg0MTM1NGY1NzMxNzI0ZGMwNTU2OWViYjgxMTFkZDk=
    Though... i do agree, we should cut spending.
    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzFjOTE5N2E2NjE5MzUxN2IxNGFjYjE4ODUzN2VlZGQ=
    (ok, this one is just more of a 'good news' sort of thing. try not to die from shock)
    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NWZlMDZkY2VmODg3M2IxOTQ1Y2I3ZjQ0ZDBjZGFkZTY=

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Your next non point was that I never addressed"the fact the arsenic level could be safe at 10ppb."
    COULD BE SAFE?
    Again...that's your best rebuttal?I think the debating coach of your team is thinking about replacing you.
    Plus doing a little more research on this issue I found," Recent evidence suggests that arsenic even at very low levels equivalent to 10 ppb in water interferes with
    hormones, making it a potent endocrine disrupter."

    Arsenic's hormone-disrupting activity may explain how arsenic
    promotes cancer. Studies of laboratory animals show that
    glucocorticoids suppress some tumors. Arsenic may promote
    cancers by interfering with this tumor-suppressing mechanism.

    Bush not only makes policies that are unsafe for Americans, he even jokes about it. At a dinner speech in March a few years ago he said, "As
    you know, we're studying safe levels for arsenic in drinking water."
    It is not entirely clear why Mr. Bush takes arsenic poisoning so lightly,( other than being an idiot..See his where are the WMD jokes ?) but it may have something to do with his ties to the
    coal industry. Burning coal is a major source of arsenic
    contamination. Many landfills contain arsenic-laden ash produced
    by coal-burning power plants. Arsenic is likely to leak out of
    these landfills, contaminating groundwater.
    Coal companies were major contributors to Bush's election campaign.
    The wood products industry, which uses arsenic to pressure-treat
    lumber, also stands to benefit from unsafe arsenic standards. A
    representative of the American Wood Preservers Institute said
    members of his organization were "relieved and delighted" by Mr.
    Bush's decision.
    I understand why.
    Yet I can't fathom why you do.
    ==================================================
    ever heard of "hormesis"? It's a pretty cool subject. Oh, and why in the world would industries want to poison their customers? That's usually bad for business.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    That ones a killer in the light of Bush being the worst environmental president in history.
    Even Nixon had included clean air policies during his years in the White House.
    ==================================================
    So..... the death rate has risen then under Bush? What's the numbers for that?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    One final note:
    The priest at church today made a statement how "global warming is hurting God's green earth"
    Dr Doublespeak would categorize father as a secular humanist !
    ==================================================
    I'd categorize him as an idiot.
    1) It's not going to freakin' destroy the planet. Every living thing might DIE, but the ball of rock and dirt isn't going to split assunder because of el nino.

    2) Ummm... plants depend upon co2 for photosynthesis. Thus, if we were producing MORE co2, that would actually be helping the 'green' of "god's green earth" by aiding the plants development. Remember, it's highly probable that plants evolved in a volcanic atmosphere that was saturated with co2 MANY times higher than today's levels. (in fact, it was plants' evolution that started putting oxygen in the air and allowed aerobic respiration life forms to evolve)

    So sure, all animals and people might get toasted, but the 'green' on the earth will be doing just fine if even half of this warming insanity is true.

    Grim:

    Why mention my name? I certainly haven't suggested you shouldn't speak your mind. Please...speak away!

    The only ones I've railed against are the ones who can't seem to make a post without including personal insults, Your not one of those. In fact, you have made some thought provoking points.

    Also, I'm not one of those arguing that we caused or can stop Global Warming, nor do I think that is one of the more pressing issues we face.
    ==================================================

    My apologies mike. Though I like this open forum format, I don't like the style of displayed posts, sometimes I've mixed up posters.

    Especially if I read several in a row, I tend to blur them together. Again, I am sorry, and nice to see that there are some sensible people around. *bow*

    Thanks Grim, but you might not think me as that "sensible" on all the issues, just that one.

    I still disagree with you concerning Bush, the war, the debt,and a few other issues...but debate is what helps make America great!

    Mike whined, "I will not waste any more time answering any of your mindless drivel in the future."

    A sure sign you know you can't win any argument with me so you do what all wusses and pussies do: refuse to debate and use the "I'm going to ignore you card." Typical. Predictable. And oh so amusing. What did you get your feelings hurt? Or is your brain hurting from the reality that Olbermann isn't who you want him to be?

    Brandon, I think, mentioned earlier how the left appears to be enamored of Chavez and Castro. That is true and not true, depending on the particular "leftist" you are talking about.

    But I'm interested in those on your side who excoriate these leaders. If you're interested in exploring this issue, I'd like to see a list of your greivances against Fidel and Hugo. What are the crimes their governments are accused of, and what danger do they pose to the US?

    "1) It's not going to freakin' destroy the planet. Every living thing might DIE, but the ball of rock and dirt isn't going to split assunder because of el nino."

    Grim,

    I don't know if you're just trying to be cute when you episodically exploit such tangents of inane specificity, or if you are in fact a sincere nihilist. Whatever the case, your frequent arguments of this sort really diminish the attraction of engaging you in debate.

    Most people, left or right, entertain some form of concern whether or not all sentient life on Earth lives or dies - people are just funny that way.

    Honeydew....

    "It looks as if arsenic will be to George Bush what ketchup was to Ronald Reagan: shorthand for everything his critics don't like about his administration, an easy laugh line for late-night TV comics, a wedge that pries away his more ambivalent supporters.

    "...The trouble is that Bush is right about arsenic."

    This quote was from liberal Michael Kinsley in 2001 after it was found that Clinton cynically instituted the lower arsenic standard as a trap for Bush.

    I will once again try to be logical with you, good professor....

    Sebastian Mallaby noted in the Washington Post, the cost of meeting the tougher standard of 10ppb exceeds the likely benefit even by the government's own calculations. Those calculations involve putting a dollar value on each human life likely to be saved and each nonfatal illness likely to be avoided. Your life is worth $6.1 million, you may be glad to hear. And yet your government was willing to stretch (or rather, willing to require local water districts to stretch) and pay $7.5 million to save you from arsenic poisoning.

    You see, Honeydew, I do not automatically trust the federal monolith called the EPA is doing something based on sound science. They are political, and so are the scientists who have been so dogmatic about such issues as human induced climate change and this arsenic canard. You follow along like the liberal lap dog you are, professor. You do not seek out counter arguments and see the science behind their points. You simply cut and paste from liberal political sites and state it as fact.

    Again, you lose professor.....another opinion dressed up as fact....now you're down 4-0.

    I would love to be able to stop pointing out to you that what you call fact is really leftist propaganda that exists only to serve as a source of power to government. To say it is to protect us is nice rhetoric, but it is a guise to divert attention from the facts.

    These regulations cost us more money

    These regulations are unnecessary based on objective sciene that also takes into account the limited financial resouces of communities

    These regulations increase the perceived need for reliance on government

    What I mean by that last statement is that the charged rhetoric you use Honeydew, like all liberals, that the government is THE ONLY one looking out for my interests, can bring fear into my thinking and cause me to agree simply because of the fear.

    "Bill Clinton stood up and protected the children from arsenic." Bull.

    I rely on my neighbor who works for the water company and drinks the same water to also be a responsible person and rely on sound science to keep my family safe and yet keep my family budget sane. The feds couldn't care less about me, personally. I rely on the good business practices of companies that need to make a safe and inexpensive product in order to stay in business. The water company does not want to poison me, because then I won't be their customer.....is this too simple for you to understand, professor?

    This same mentality of distrust of people and trust for the faceless and wasteful federal regulatory monstrosity is what brings liberals like you to condemn Walmart....Well guess what....the majority of Americans feel just fine in going to such retailers who try their best to supply inexpensive products and contribute to a sound economy.

    Your arrogance of believing you know what is right for my family is sickening, professor. Please....keep your radical leftist causes where they belong....on the trash heap of history.

    Thanks Grim, but you might not think me as that "sensible" on all the issues, just that one.

    I still disagree with you concerning Bush, the war, the debt,and a few other issues...but debate is what helps make America great!
    =====================================================
    Actually, off the top of my head I can only think of one thing I've seen from you that I considered not sensible (the point you made awhile back about how the terrorists couldn't destroy us etc etc). Most everything, though I may not agree with you, I can see how you arrived at your conclusion.

    Of course, I'm one who can see someone as reasonable even if they don't agree with me (unlike say... bob/beef?). How dull a world it would be if we all agreed.

    "1) It's not going to freakin' destroy the planet. Every living thing might DIE, but the ball of rock and dirt isn't going to split assunder because of el nino."

    Grim,

    I don't know if you're just trying to be cute when you episodically exploit such tangents of inane specificity, or if you are in fact a sincere nihilist. Whatever the case, your frequent arguments of this sort really diminish the attraction of engaging you in debate.

    Most people, left or right, entertain some form of concern whether or not all sentient life on Earth lives or dies - people are just funny that way.
    ==================================================

    No beef, what I'm trying to do is get some truth in advertising. The world (including most, if not all life on it) will continue just fine with even the worst consequences of global warming. If anything's in danger it's our current civilization and species.

    So let's be honest and say "we're killing ourselves" rather than "we're destroying god's green earth". There's a world of difference between the two and the imagery that they invoke in people's minds.

    Grim, you are truly a fringe-thinker.

    I have always interpreted the jeremiads to which you object as referrng to the destruction of an earth that we can use and live in in the manner in which we are accustomed (i.e. above ground; sans TYVEC underwear;...).

    Interestingly, your compartmentalism does reflect in a way the hopefulness that the process of Natural Selection lends to the Secular Humanist: evolution promises that life will go on, no matter what may occur. I myself subscribe to this form of optimism, but only as the last extremity.

    Most people would prefer that life on earth continue on in its habitual trajectory and, I would hope, would endorse preserving the biosphere as a viable human habitat.

    "Well guess what....the majority of Americans feel just fine in going to such retailers who try their best to supply inexpensive products and contribute to a sound economy."

    cee apparently knows nothing of the maufacture/retail cycle either. Walmart sells crap from China at a price we cannot match in the US currently. People who used to make products of these same classes, or sell them in stores they owned themselves, find themselves having to work for $9 or $10 and hour for Walmart while their old storefronts/factories stand empty. This is visible in any number of small cities and towns across the country. The euphemistically-named "Free Market" forces us to compete with the poorest people in the world; giving the latter a slightly higher income; the American worker a much lower earning potential; and making the owners of a few multinational corporations the fabulously wealthy, ad hoc rulers of the world.

    "Strong economy"? cee is an absolute fool who fetishizes economic slavery.

    Hey cee,

    The "Surge" is on! You should enlist and do your part salvaging your president's legacy! They need doctors BADLY in Iraq, Kuwait, and Germany.

    Grim, you are truly a fringe-thinker.

    I have always interpreted the jeremiads to which you object as referrng to the destruction of an earth that we can use and live in in the manner in which we are accustomed (i.e. above ground; sans TYVEC underwear;...).

    Interestingly, your compartmentalism does reflect in a way the hopefulness that the process of Natural Selection lends to the Secular Humanist: evolution promises that life will go on, no matter what may occur. I myself subscribe to this form of optimism, but only as the last extremity.

    Most people would prefer that life on earth continue on in its habitual trajectory and, I would hope, would endorse preserving the biosphere as a viable human habitat.
    ===================================================
    I majored in biology and computers in college, believe me when I say you don't get by without being very precise.

    Now if we're going to talk about preserving the hability (as our species has evolved) then that's fine, you and I have at least agreed to the terms.

    Of course, considering that most life on this planet PREFERS warmth (better for growing etc), I'm again wondering why in the world so many are in a hurry to push us toward a new ice age.

    Again I'd like to know the goal. Heck just give me a global temperature we're shooting for.

    Show me a respectable economist that disagrees with this point.
    You can't.
    ==================================================
    oh oh, i can!

    Oh no you can't. Your article discusses the trade deficit, not the debt.
    Two different animals, Grim.
    Only the right will make the ridiculous claims that our trillion dollar debt is fine and dandy.

    Keith's a fraud thinks he can debate, when all he really does is spew out obscenities. Like any typical grade schooler, he thinks a pissing match is a debate! If this fool thinks of himself as the polar opposite of Olbermann, then Olbermann really IS the new Edward R Morrow.

    Hey cee,

    The "Surge" is on! You should enlist and do your part salvaging your president's legacy! They need doctors BADLY in Iraq, Kuwait, and Germany.

    Hey Loin...Cee is a despicable chickenhawk.He's only interested in OTHER people risking their lives.

    Oh no you can't. Your article discusses the trade deficit, not the debt.
    Two different animals, Grim.
    Only the right will make the ridiculous claims that our trillion dollar debt is fine and dandy.
    =====================================================
    my bad, i always get those two mixed up.
    Anyway, here's stuff on the DEBT of the country.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_bartlett/bartlett060903.asp
    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTg4Y2FiMjRjMDM0NDQyYmM4YWI0YjNmZTQwNDhlOTg=
    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTBjNmJmYzgzNTAxN2I0MDk2NzZkMWJkZjAzY2UxYTA=
    "Harvard economist Robert Barro studied 12 industrialized economies and found that for interest rates to rise by 1 percent, the debt ratio would need to increase by 10 percentage points in each of the 12 countries. And even those small movements are usually overwhelmed by larger trends affecting real interest rates, such as economic growth and expectations of future inflation."

    Though again, i totally agree with this:
    "To the extent that federal debt is burdensome, it is a spending problem."

    Absolutely it's a spending problem. I'm a social liberal, fiscal conservative. And I'm surprised more republicans aren't up in arms that this idiot of a president has never veto'd ONE SPENDING BILL. NOT ONE.

    Instead, we're spending our grandchildren's future away on a needless war, driving up debt to the point where we'll be borrowing from other nation's eventually... not the other way around.

    Absolutely it's a spending problem. I'm a social liberal, fiscal conservative. And I'm surprised more republicans aren't up in arms that this idiot of a president has never veto'd ONE SPENDING BILL. NOT ONE.
    ====================================================

    umm.... I think that's why the last election went the way it did (or one of the reasons anyway). Believe me, there are a lot of us who are not happy with all the spending.

    Once again Sir Loin of Milquetoast, who is a "committed anti-war activist," is encouraging people to participate in a war he calls immoral.....oh the inconsistency!

    And we have Professor Honeydew who, once again, voices a tired yet typical liberal mantra....chickenhawk.

    Well gents, your vacant ideologies would NEVER bring you to fight for your fellow citizens, so I would recommend you try another avenue of attack. You know....that black pot/kettle idea?

    Your vacant ideologies protect only one citizen....yourself. Wrapped in the lies represented by the drivel you both post, at a core, is your narcissism that has been encouraged and fed by an establishment that believes NOTHING is worth personal sacrifice.

    Keep degrading the service of fine men and women by flippantly using their noble decision as a rhetorical tool to actually impugn their mission, gents. It just fits perfectly in your self-centered, self-rightous and self-serving paradigm.

    The majority of the volunteers who have been protecting us in Iraq, South Korea and Afghanistan (among other locations), are mostly God fearing, conservative patriots who reject the pathetic ideas of Loin and Honeydew. Why? Because those fine people have character.

    Instead of beating me over the head about, "The Surge," you two sorry-excuses for men should be on the phone to that democratic leader who supports such an idea.....Reid. The professor claims the election was a mandate for reductions, not increases, of troops. Where oh where is the anger at your so-called representatives?

    Projection is a process used by mentally ill individuals who see their insecurities and short-comings in others only....Sir Loin of Milquetoast and Professor Honeydew are text book afflicted victims and should seek out professional help post-haste.

    "Instead of beating me over the head about, "The Surge," you two sorry-excuses for men should be on the phone to that democratic leader who supports such an idea.....Reid."

    Senator Reid said he would support the idea ONLY IF it was tied to troop reductions down the line. He's not for an open-ended commitment.

    Doublespeak continues the bullshit : "I do not automatically trust the federal monolith called the EPA is doing something based on sound science. They are political, and so are the scientists who have been so dogmatic about such issues as human induced climate change.

    Dr. Doublespeak has swallowed the right wing propaganda machine hook ,line and sinker.
    There isn't a right wing idiotic opinion that he doesn't take to his bosom.
    One of the most insane is the climate change issue.
    The overwhelming majority of scientists have concluded that fossil fuels is the leading cause of climate change.
    In Doublespeak's world it's a POLITICAL opinion.

    Why he takes the small minority opinion ( and getting smaller every day)WHICH IS a political opinion....is no longer debatable.

    If the extreme right wing says it, Doublespeak agrees with it.

    I have used many science sites to prove to you,how the president you support has been an abyssmal failure with the environment and our nation's health.
    ( none good enough for you, of course)
    What else could you possibly say ?
    You counter by saying you trust your neighbor that works for the water dept.
    Your debating coach just got the hook and pulled you off the stage with that (non) reasoning.
    Doublespeak has embarassed himself and claimed victory.

    You won't come out and say Bush has been a good steward of the land and has fought corporate interests to protect our environment.
    Your silence is deafening.
    Even you , who has drunk the right wing Kool Aid, can't even stomach to admit the above.
    Even you, being the right wing waterboy that you are, know it's absurb not to admit corporate interests are making our environmental policies, much to the detriment of our citizens' health.

    If you're not part of the solution , you are part of the problem.
    And , oh boy, are you part of the problem !

    "Your silence is deafening"

    Professor Honeydew (Bob),

    I work for a living, and post when I can....so cool your jets.

    The awful rhetoric about the troops you and Loin made needed to be addressed first.

    The rest of your silliness will be confronted and destroyed as your other pathetic points have been. There is so much leftist swill being thrown my way that it takes a lot to move through it all.

    The "Bush has been a good steward" challenge will be delt with easily this afternoon. But again, you or Loin may say something so ridiculous that I may have to adjust my priorities.

    umm.... I think that's why the last election went the way it did (or one of the reasons anyway)

    Hey Grim, you think the disaster in iraq might have been one of the other reasons?
    And letting corporations dictate administration policy?
    And Bush ignoring domestic policies with his ADD,while focusing on not having a clue in Iraq ?
    and his assault on the COnstitution, in the disguise of keeping us safe ?
    and....
    and...
    There are a myriad of reasons why we threw the bums out.
    At least , you appear to be somewhat aware of realities of the last election,not like your partner in crime, Dr. Doublespeak( cee)

    James:

    We are already borrowing from other nations....heavily!

    Dr Doublespeak...Please spare us your revisionist history on Bush being the environmental president.

    I'll probably get sick to my stomach hearing your nonsense... the same way I felt upon hearing about the Holocaust Denial COnference.

    Your views on Bush are very similar to those idiots at the Conference.

    There are no sane people in this country who questions Bush has been a failure with our nation's health and the environment.
    You don't need to prove your insanity.
    Actually, this is one area where the right and the left mostly agree.
    Which puts Cee alone on an island all by himself,desperately trying to tune into Rush's radio program.

    Tomorrow Dr Doublespeak will explain to us why he agrees with Dick Cheney's assessment that Donald Rumsfeld was the "Best Secretary of Defense in our nation's history".....after just being fired for helping botch the war and having no post war planning.
    With Cheney's assessment, he must think Bush is a fool( for firing him) or we're all idiots !

    you two sorry-excuses for men should be on the phone to that democratic leader who supports such an idea.....Reid.

    But not the president who is in charge of foreign policy.
    Dr Doublespeak strikes again with his amnesia of who is making the decisions and causing the problems in this country.

    And BTW, a chickenhawk is a loser who supports a war he doesn't have the courage to fight in....like yourself. It has NOTHING to do with the troops , who have proven they have courage to fight.

    Dr. Doublespeak embarrasses himself again !

    umm.... I think that's why the last election went the way it did (or one of the reasons anyway)

    Hey Grim, you think the disaster in iraq might have been one of the other reasons?...
    =====================================================

    What does any of that have to do with anything? Someone else and I were discussing the debt and finances of the country. Why did you feel the need to start into one of your repetitive rants against Bush? Is it like OCD or something?

    And BTW, a chickenhawk is a loser who supports a war he doesn't have the courage to fight in....like yourself. It has NOTHING to do with the troops , who have proven they have courage to fight.
    =====================================================
    Before anyone tries to bring it up, i just want to say that I HAVE applied for the military. Just turns out I have some pre-existing conditions that disqualify me from service (unless something drastic happens I suppose).

    Just pointing out to some that even if 100% of the population signed up for the military, 100% would NOT be in it. You can sign up, but they can still turn you down.

    Thus why I've always found the "chickenhawk" argument to be weak at best. How do you know the target of said claim tried to serve their country but was deemed unable to?

    Before anyone tries to bring it up, i just want to say that I HAVE applied for the military. Just turns out I have some pre-existing conditions that disqualify me from service (unless something drastic happens I suppose).

    Better get your boots on...Something drastic is going to happen.
    Instead of winding down this disaster in Iraq like America wants, bush is going to surge around 20-30,000 more troops in Iraq.
    Also, the qualifications keep dropping lower and lower to whom they will accept into the military.
    I hear as long as you can hold a gun they will take you.
    Mental competency is not a factor.

    So Grim....even though I applaud you for attempting to serve, with the climate and conditions the conditions Bush has created,don't be surprised if you get a call.

    Mental competency is not a factor.
    =====================================================
    Not sure what that has to do with anything.. but my test scores were high enough that I could pretty much have picked anywhere I wanted to go.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    So Grim....even though I applaud you for attempting to serve, with the climate and conditions the conditions Bush has created,don't be surprised if you get a call.
    ====================================================
    w00t! Weight loss here I come!
    Actually the insurgiency are probably lucky I'm not over there. he he he...

    On the other hand, global warming will probably wipe them all out right?

    "Instead of beating me over the head about, "The Surge," you two sorry-excuses for men should be on the phone to that democratic leader who supports such an idea.....Reid. The professor claims the election was a mandate for reductions, not increases, of troops. Where oh where is the anger at your so-called representatives?"

    cee, Nice "Hail Mary" pass, but I harrass Neocon Democratic office-holders (and they are many - anyone who thinks we can free a people by destroying their civil institutions and infrastructure) every day for their irrational and self-contradictory equivocation regarding the war. Kucinich gets all of my active political support at the moment, despite his slight chances of making a show in the 2008 presidential contest he just entered, because he speaks clearly and strongly against this immoral war and always has.

    But isn't it great the way the feckless coward cee uses me and Bob as cover to shirk the obligations demanded of him by his own beliefs and dispensation of his political franchise? He's even a doctor, he claims - and could provide much-needed respite for some poor young surgeon who has been stuck in Iraq or Germany long past his original deployment. That surgeon is over there because of people like cee, who crave a vicarious, redemptive "Clash of Civilizations" but think they are too precious to sacrifice one iota in order to bring it to pass. A miserable f---ing excuse for a physician, if you ask me.

    Mental competency is not a factor.
    =====================================================
    Not sure what that has to do with anything.. but my test scores were high enough that I could pretty much have picked anywhere I wanted to go.

    I wasn't referring to you.(I suspected you might though)
    I was referring to the NEW lower standards US military recruiting process.
    It's a shame that they really do take almost anyone, since our military has been stretched almost to the breaking point...( which is the assessment of many military personnel, if this "surge" occurs)

    "Thus why I've always found the "chickenhawk" argument to be weak at best. How do you know the target of said claim tried to serve their country but was deemed unable to?"

    Well, Grim, you can pretty much tell when you start questioning them as to why they are not serving, and they say things like "I have other priorities" or "I wasn't going to run off to Canada or shoot out my eardrum with a shotgun, so I thought I would better myself by learning to fly (in the Texas Air National Guard)". (in case anyone remains unaware, these are the respective equivocations given by CHeney and Bush in regard to their non-existant service during the Vietnam war).

    Or when, like cee, they use explicitly dedicated anti-war activists like me to to excuse their quivvering lack of balls or integrity. cee does this all of the time, for a while he insisted that he was "ready to enlist" if only I would go first. I found this to be a particularly disgraceful attempt to dodge his moral responsibilities, as I clearly think this war is wrong and those serving in it are being used most cynically and ruthlessly to the benefit of the fortunes and political careers of those who started it.

    I have always been explicit that I would never sign up for this conflict, yet the rapturous war-booster cee says he will wait for me to sign up before he takes his 42-year-old self and its highly relevant skill-set ot the induction office. What can one say about such conduct - or lack of it?

    C'mon, cee - the "Surge is on"

    "And BTW, a chickenhawk is a loser who supports a war he doesn't have the courage to fight in....like yourself. It has NOTHING to do with the troops , who have proven they have courage to fight."

    Honeydew,

    Allow me to educate you on protesting war.....

    The opposition to a war can be based on two moral grounds:

    Absolute pacifism or believing the reason for the war is not moral.

    The first one is easy....if a person is a pacifist they oppose any violent act and I have great respect for the true pacifist who lives by such an honorable and great conviction.

    The second one is the more interesting one.....If you and Loin believe it is immoral we are in Iraq because of the various reasons I have heard ad nauseum, then your position requires you to also believe that those who volunteer to execute the immoral act are also wrong. To say you are trying to stop an action that is immoral, then encourage people to volunteer...like Grim or myself...is a contradiction and shows the superficial nature of your belief. "Supporting the troops but not supporting the war," is the resultant self-rationalization that elitists try to use to make themsevles feel better.

    Well, it's too bad that cowardly elitists like you, Professor Honeydew, feel the moral superiority to make such comments about people willing to serve their country. Lower standards, mental competency, poor people.....you liberals love to use that caste system you have created to demean others. BTW the military recruitment effort has shown numbers that are bigger than their targets and I am proud of these great Americans who choose to protect me and my family.

    Professor, you know very little about me and still feel inclined to say I am able to serve in the military....We'll I'll let you continue to think you know all about me, but suffice it to say.....you don't.

    And Loin, my offer to volunteer with you, even in a civlian humanitarian capacity in Iraq or Afghanistan, is still there.....Doctors without Borders?....You too, Honeydew....I call your bluff....Let me know and we can go off to The Middle East together.

    I wasn't referring to you.(I suspected you might though)
    I was referring to the NEW lower standards US military recruiting process.
    It's a shame that they really do take almost anyone, since our military has been stretched almost to the breaking point...( which is the assessment of many military personnel, if this "surge" occurs)
    =====================================================
    I think you just complimented me (if so, thank you).

    I personally don't think it's a shame though. I heard a story the other day of a kid that came from a family where both of his siblings held doctorates but... he didn't do as well in school. He signed up for the military and after serving his tour, served as a mercenary for many years.

    He claimed to have enough saved away that even his grandkids would never have to work.

    Now I bring this up to say simply that the fact that I find it admiriable that people who might lack some skills can find a place in the military and even succeed at it.

    "And Loin, my offer to volunteer with you, even in a civlian humanitarian capacity in Iraq or Afghanistan, is still there.....Doctors without Borders?....You too, Honeydew....I call your bluff....Let me know and we can go off to The Middle East together."

    Speak of the Devil! There he goes again!

    This deluded princeling tries hard to make us the hypocrits, but it does not take. I am not per se telling cee to sign up for this war that I hate - I am merely asking him to step up to the plate in regard to his own stated beliefs - people who do otherwise cannot be trusted in any regard.

    Once again I find myself having to explain to the shrinking prima donna: 1)I don't want more Americans to be sent to Iraq; 2) people like cee use their political franchise to ensure that there will be more Americans sent to Iraq; 3)that being a foregone conclusion, I really, really want cee and his kind to be the ones that have to go.

    In the meantime, I am wielding my political franchise in the effort of ending the as soon as possible. There is no hypocrisy or contradiction in this position, while cee's flailing about only highlight's his utter lack of integrity.

    "He claimed to have enough saved away that even his grandkids would never have to work.

    Now I bring this up to say simply that the fact that I find it admiriable that people who might lack some skills can find a place in the military and even succeed at it."

    Grim gets misty eyed over the success-story of a self-described mercenary.

    Grim, you are bizzarre, amoral person, but thank you for your candor.

    "Well, it's too bad that cowardly elitists like you, Professor Honeydew, feel the moral superiority to make such comments about people willing to serve their country. Lower standards, mental competency, poor people.....you liberals love to use that caste system you have created to demean others. BTW the military recruitment effort has shown numbers that are bigger than their targets and I am proud of these great Americans who choose to protect me and my family."

    cee, you cannot "PC" facts out of existence solely through strained indignation. For the past two years running the military has explicity and officially lowered its recruitment standards just as Bob describes. Also, your "fact" regarding the recruitment targets being exceeded this year is pure fabrication and completely contrary to government figures, even though these "targets" themselves were lowered to an unprecedented extent.

    Who are you? Why are you driven to lie about such important issues?

    BTW Loin, remember....I said TOGETHER.....and it did not even need to be military....it could be humanitarian in harms way....You are such the brave stud you claim to be.....let me know...I'd be glad to do it....Honeydew too.


    cee, everybody says the military needs doctors desparately; what are you going to do? - wait for a couple of hippy peacenik malingerers like Me and Bob to make a move? You make me sick

    http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,105400,00.html

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11787394/site/newsweek/

    Grim, you are bizzarre, amoral person, but thank you for your candor.
    ====================================================
    awww... thanks Bob (for the bizzare part)

    If Bob calls someone bizarre, that must mean the are completely normal/average...right?

    If Bob calls someone bizarre, that must mean the are completely normal/average...right?
    ====================================================
    =S
    I hope not.

    "In the meantime, I am wielding my political franchise in the effort of ending the [sic] as soon as possible. There is no hypocrisy or contradiction in this position, while cee's flailing about only highlight's his utter lack of integrity."

    What a brave guy, "wielding his political franchise....." Do you remember why you're Sir Loin of Milquetoast? Because even as a anti-war activist, you are a fraud and a coward....You may have rationalized your lack of EFFECTIVE anti-war activity into some kind of weed-smoking sit-in statement that does NOTHING to stop the killing you are so against....but the reality is that your protesting only serves one purpose.....to make yourself feel better....

    Little baby Loinie....does carrying a sign, posting on OW and attacking conservatives drive that unresolved guilt away about not being willing to protect your country?

    I doubt it will.

    But hey....like I said....projection is a common defense mechanism of loons like you and Honeydew. Keep using your flacid political franchise to try to help your fellow man, Sir Loin of Milquetoast....your narcissism has very deep needs.

    That's what the liberal loons do: post on websites and think they are making a difference. I wonder how many of them has ever run for office or got out into the field and worked on a campaign? I wonder how many of them can even AFFORD to make a campaign contribution?

    And hey, maybe that's what binds them to Olbermann: their mutual narcissim.

    "I wonder how many of them has ever run for office or got out into the field and worked on a campaign?"

    I did - I was a field volunteer for the Nevada Democratic Party and the Dina Titus for Governor campaign this year (we lost by 3 points in a very tight race with ex-Rep. Jim Gibbons).

    "I wonder how many of them can even AFFORD to make a campaign contribution?"

    I can't, so in lieu of handing over cash I worked field events (voter registration drives, district canvassing, volunteering as a poll worker, parades and other public events, or just "billboarding" in a campaign t-shirt).

    HAHA HAHAHA!

    cee is such a pussy

    cee,

    The military has been desperately asking for doctors to sign up- -even those who look to "weed-smoking" peaceniks and "Milquetoasts" for their moral cues.

    SURGE!

    cee,

    The military has been desperately asking for doctors to sign up- -even those who look to "weed-smoking" peaceniks and "Milquetoasts" for their moral cues.

    SURGE!

    Ensign expendable,

    I'm not very familiar with Nevada politics, but I heard that an ex-Las Vegas dominatrix was running for governor this summer. She had a story about a young rich client named George W. Bush who had a penchant for drunken, forced hmosexual encounters under her watchful eye. Was this commoin knowedge in Nevada?

    "I wonder how many of them can even AFFORD to make a campaign contribution?"

    ...and Liberals are the ones who are supposed to be "elitist"? I bet cee wishes he could pay an Irish immigrant to take his place in the war he loves like the rich chickenhawks let themselves do in the Civil War.

    "I'm not very familiar with Nevada politics, but I heard that an ex-Las Vegas dominatrix was running for governor this summer."

    No, but we did have a former porn star running for Governor (as a Republican!)...Melody "Mimi Miyagi" Damayo.

    "a young rich client named George W. Bush who had a penchant for drunken, forced hmosexual encounters under her watchful eye. Was this commoin knowedge in Nevada?"

    This is the kind of "factual critique" about President George W. Bush that is brought to you courtesy of SLOB. This is also the type of "factual critique" (along with Richard Gere's "encounters" with gerbils) that one can expect to see on Meltdown.

    The name Dr Doublespeak....could be improved on.
    Since Cee is a foaming at the mouth, lapdog for George Bush and every other right wing cause, it will be Dr. Lapdog from now on.

    Everytime I read one of rover's posts , I just shake my head and wonder if he ever looks in the mirror and sees anyone other than Sean Hannity.
    They have identical beliefs, where they never met a good democrat and never have found a republican worthy of scorn or criticism.


    But that's not the purpose of my post tonight.
    My purpose is to speak of some republicans who do have integrity.Republicans who are capable of looking at our changing world and evaluate it based on the realities of each situation,and adjust their views accordingly.To use reason, logic and evidence rather than the right wing dogma as Dr Lapdog,Rush Limpballs and Blockhead Hannity ascribe to.
    Two that immediately stand out were on board with the Iraq War from day one.But they saw the realities of the situation,the war profiteering the lack of post war planning and now the blossoming civil war that has mushroomed from Bush's doomed policies.
    The honorable Senator Gordon Smith from Oregon made such a reversal, because he wasn't afraid to break from the GOP good ole boys club.He realized that continuing a policy of having our troops being caught in the crossfire of this civil war was not only wrong "but possibly criminal"
    Joe Scarborough who is a moderate Republican just used the common sense that God gave him to turn his opinion around 100%.

    I also have 3 republican friends that have pulled a 180 degree turnaround .Each is issue oriented and feels that to continue to vote republican, is against their conscience and health.

    Joanne- 58 yrs old- She has been a lifelong dye in the wool republican. She has voted for every GOP candidate since she could vote.She has Parkinson's Disease and it's advancing rapidly.She voted Democratic for the first time in her life in 04' and then again last month.She says" How could I vote for a man/party that is not going to help me extend my life b/c of his/their views on the stem cell research issue." ?

    Steve has made his living as a fisherman for 35 years.
    Some background is necessary here-
    Using antiquated technology, power plants often suck up the entire fresh water volume of large rivers, killing obscene numbers of fish. Just one facility, the Salem nuclear plant in New Jersey, kills more than 3 billion Delaware River fish each year, according to Martin Marietta, the plant's own consultant. These fish kills are illegal, and in 2001 lawyers led by RFK JR.won the case . A federal judge ordered the EPA to issue regulations restricting power-plant fish kills. But soon after Bush's inauguration, the administration replaced the proposed new rule with clever regulations designed to allow the slaughter to continue unabated.
    Steve who is a traditional Republican sees this administration as the largest threat not just to his livelihood but to his values and his idea of what it means to be American.He has seen Bush's environmental policies up close.Steve now votes Democratic.

    Joe is a fiscal conservative and again has voted GOP in almost every election in his lifetime.
    He has seen how this president has spent like a drunken sailor on leave.He says,"How can I continue to support a man who has never vetoed a spending bill and continues to throw obscene amounts of money into a war that we cannot win."

    All across this nation , people who have never dreamed they would vote anything but Republican are waking up and seeing with their very eyes how this president( and party) have weakened this great country of ours in almost every important area domestically and abroad.

    "a young rich client named George W. Bush who had a penchant for drunken, forced hmosexual encounters under her watchful eye. Was this commoin knowedge in Nevada?"

    This is the kind of "factual critique" about President George W. Bush that is brought to you courtesy of SLOB. This is also the type of "factual critique" (along with Richard Gere's "encounters" with gerbils) that one can expect to see on Meltdown.


    Posted by: hank at December 18, 2006 07:03 PM

    I concede your point; My "Bush-having-drunk-gay-sex-under-supervision-of-a-famous-Las Vegas-dominatrix" comment was entirely an example of unproven and malicious innuendo.

    But tell me how its any different from you dorks lasciviously pontificating day after day about Olbermann's alleged impotence or sexual habits?

    Professor Honeydew continues the indoctrination lesson. The examples are sweet....they sound like real people with real problems....just like the people I remember Bill Clinton used to discuss in his speeches.

    Almost like an old evangelical circuit man, looking for people to save, the professor mentions these poor souls who have, "seen the light!" While the evil, dark and greedy Dr. Lapdog stands outside the tent cursing the darkness.

    My heart is so dark and hard not to embrace the truth, the light that is modern American liberalism!

    Choke, choke, choke.

    You see, Honeydew, my positions have been challenged time and again by more intelligent leftists and my faith has not been shaken.

    Example....when President Clinton was elected to office in 1992, people said to me that being a conservative was passe, meaningless and wrong. Clinton was a moderate and even the term liberal was obsolete. I looked at history and knew these "new democrats," were wrong. Excesses by secular humanists would be seen by most Americans as wrong headed and there would be a change....I never imagined that the congress, after over 30 years, would be handed over to conservatives. Bill Clinton was stopped in his tracks and little of the leftist agenda was accomplished.

    Then George Bush was elected and I saw the knives come out. Even two days after 9/11 I read posts on websites claiming Bush and "The Jews" knew about the plot or even, they were the terrorists and were blaming muslims. One month later, mainstream Democrats were already critiquing The President's actions, calling for peace talks with The Taliban and even OBL!

    Then all hell broke loose prior to the invasion of Iraq with marches and the beginning of anti-war protests. Now, 4 years later, the left has what it wanted all along, the return of power. This is fine. The executive still has veto power and the very slim majorities the Democrats have in both houses cannot result in an over-ride of a veto in The House and The Senate cannot overcome a Republican filibuster.

    So, professor, hold off on your celebrations of a secular humanist revival. The government is divided and I predict the public's taste for congressional investigation (let alone impeachment) will be lacking. Already, the Dems are moving to the right with their talk of increasing troop numbers, and abandonment of impeachment talk. The left is going to have to wait for payback.

    So Professor Honeydew, my lips are dry, I do not growl. I have faith that common sense will win the day and the agenda of the far left you support in environmental, economic and social policy will be temperized by an honorable George Bush.

    And when the next presidential election comes, and the establishment D's assess the characteristics of their possible nominees, it will be interesting to see if the person passes the litmus tests of the dogmatic left.

    The American people rejected the last two liberal white guys who tried to sound "moderate." What will the D's do this time?

    I cannot wait to see because I know the principles your party holds to are as stable and sturdy as shifting sand. The real tests of the foundations of liberal ideology will again show, (like as happened in the 1960's, late 1970's and early 1990's), the basic flaws of arrogance, elitism and hypocrisy.

    NeoLibs?

    cee's a drama queen.

    Beef Turd,

    You spend most of your words insulting people that you disagree with, demonstrating that you are either not serious, or not of sound mind. So you have earned the name I just gave you.