Buy Text-Link-Ads here
Recent Comments

    follow OlbyWatch on Twitter

    In

    John Gibson Welcomes Back the Infamous, Deplorable Keith Olbermann

    tonyome wrote: <a href="http://twitchy.com/2014/07/28/voxs-laughable-praise-of-keith-olber... [more](11)

    In

    Welcome Back, Olby!

    syvyn11 wrote: <a href="http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/keith-olbermann-reviving-worst... [more](9)

    In

    Former Obama Support/Donor Releases Song Supporting Romney/Ryan: "We'll Take It Back Again" by Kyle Tucker

    syvyn11 wrote: @philly I don't see that happening. ESPN has turned hyper left in recent... [more](64)

    In

    Blue-Blog-a-Palooza: Ann Romney Edition!

    djthereplay wrote: By mkdawuss on August 29, 2012 6:17 PM Will John Gibson be having a "Red-B... [more](4)

    In

    No Joy in Kosville...Mighty Olby Has Struck Out

    djwolf76 wrote: "But the FOX-GOP relationship (which is far more distinguished and prevalen... [more](23)

    KO Mini Blog



    What's in the Olbermann Flood Feed?
    Subscribe to Olbermann Flood Feed:
    RSS/XML

    KO Countdown Clock


    Warning: mktime() [function.mktime]: It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected 'America/New_York' for 'EDT/-4.0/DST' instead in /home/owatch/www/www.olbermannwatch.com/docs/countdown.php on line 5
    KO's new contract with MSNBC ends in...
    0 days 0 hours 0 minutes

    OlbermannWatch.com "My Faves" Set

    OlbermannWatch.com Favorited Photos from other Flickr Users

    Got OlbyPhotos? See some on Flickr? DO NOT email us. Send us a FlickrMail instead. Include a link to the photo. If we like the photo you will see it displayed in the Olby Flickr Flood above.

    New to Flickr? Sign up for a FREE Flickr account!


    Got some OlbyVideo? See some on YouTube? DO NOT email us. Send us a YouTube Messages instead. Include a link to the video. If we like the video you will see it displayed in our favorites list in our YouTube page.

    New to YouTube? Sign up for a FREE YouTube account!

    Red Meat Blog
    Keith Olbermann Quotes
    Countdown Staff Writers

    If they're not on Keith's payroll...

    ...they should be...

    Crooks & Liars
    Daily Kos
    Eschaton
    Huffington Post
    Media Matters for America
    MyDD
    News Corpse
    No Quarter
    Raw Story
    Talking Points Memo
    Think Progress
    TVNewser
    Keith Lovers

    MSNBC's Countdown
    Bloggerman
    MSNBC Transcripts
    MSNBC Group at MSN

    Drinking with Keith Olbermann
    Either Relevant or True
    KeithOlbermann.org
    Keith Olbermann is Evil
    Olbermann Nation
    Olbermann.org
    Thank You, Keith Olbermann

    Don't Be Such A Douche
    Eyes on Fox
    Liberal Talk Radio
    Oliver Willis
    Sweet Jesus I Hate Bill O'Reilly

    Anonymous Rat
    For This Relief Much Thanks
    Watching Olbermann Watch

    Keith Olbermann Fanlisting Site I
    Keith Olbermann Fanlisting Site II
    Keith Olbermann Links
    Olberfans
    Sports Center Altar
    Nothing for Everyone

    Democratic Underground KO Forum
    Television Without Pity KO Forum
    Loony KO Forum (old)
    Loony KO Forum (new)
    Olberfans Forum (old)
    Olberfans Forum (new)
    Keith Watchers

    186k per second
    Ace of Spades HQ
    Cable Gamer
    Dean's World
    Doug Ross@Journal
    Extreme Mortman
    Fire Keith Olbermann
    Hot Air
    Inside Cable News
    Instapundit
    Jawa Report
    Johnny Dollar's Place
    Just One Minute
    Little Green Footballs
    Mark Levin
    Media Research Center
    Moonbattery.com
    Moorelies
    National Review Media Blog
    Narcissistic Views
    Newsbusters
    Pat Campbell Show
    Radio Equalizer
    Rathergate
    Riehl World View
    Sister Toldjah
    Toys in the Attic
    Webloggin
    The Dark Side of Keith Olbermann
    World According to Carl

    Thanks for the blogroll link!

    Age of Treason
    Bane Rants
    The Blue Site
    Cabal of Doom-De Oppresso Libre
    Chuckoblog
    Conservative Blog Therapy
    Conservathink
    Country Store
    Does Anyone Agree?
    The Drunkablog!
    Eclipse Ramblings
    If I were President of USA
    I'll Lay Down My Glasses
    Instrumental Rationality
    JasonPye.com
    Kevin Dayhoff
    Last Train Out Of Hell
    Leaning Straight Up
    Limestone Roof
    Mein BlogoVault
    NostraBlogAss
    Peacerose Journal
    The Politics of CP
    Public Secrets: from the files of the Irishspy
    Rat Chat
    Return of the Conservatives
    The Right Place
    Rhymes with Right
    seanrobins.com
    Six Meat Buffet
    Sports and Stuff
    Stout Republican
    Stuck On Stupid
    Things I H8
    TruthGuys
    Verum Serum
    WildWeasel

    Friends of OlbyWatch

    Aaron Barnhart
    Eric Deggans
    Jason Clarke
    Ron Coleman
    Victria Zdrok
    Keith Resources

    Google News: Keith Olbermann
    Feedster: Keith Olbermann
    Technorati: Keith Olbermann
    Wikipedia: Keith Olbermann
    Wikipedia: Countdown
    Wikiality: Keith Olbermann
    Keith Olbermann Quotes on Jossip
    Keith Olbermann Photos
    NNDB Olbermann Page
    IMDB Olbermann Page
    Countdown Guest Listing & Transcripts
    Olbermann Watch FAQ
    List of Politics on Countdown (by party)
    Mark Levin's Keith Overbite Page
    Keith Olbermann's Diary at Daily Kos
    Olbermann Watch in the News

    Houston Chronicle
    Playboy
    The Journal News
    National Review
    San Antonio Express
    The Hollywood Reporter
    The Journal News
    Los Angeles Times
    American Journalism Review
    Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
    St. Petersburg Times
    Kansas City Star
    New York Post/Page Six
    Washington Post
    Associated Press
    PBS
    New York Daily News
    Online Journalism Review
    The Washingon Post
    Hartford Courant
    WTWP-AM
    The New York Observer
    The Washington Post


    Countdown with Keith Olbermann
    Great Moments in Broadcast Journalism
    Great Thanks Hall of Fame
    Keith Olbermann
    MSM KO Bandwagon
    Olbermann
    Olbermann Watch Channel on You Tube
    Olbermann Watch Debate
    Olbermann Watch Image Gallery
    Olbermann Watch Polling Service
    OlbermannWatch
    OlbyWatch Link Roundup
    TVNewser "Journalism"

    July 2013
    September 2012
    August 2012
    April 2012
    March 2012
    February 2012
    January 2012
    December 2011
    November 2011
    October 2011
    September 2011
    August 2011
    July 2011
    June 2011
    May 2011
    April 2011
    March 2011
    February 2011
    January 2011
    December 2010
    November 2010
    October 2010
    September 2010
    August 2010
    July 2010
    June 2010
    May 2010
    April 2010
    March 2010
    February 2010
    January 2010
    December 2009
    November 2009
    October 2009
    September 2009
    August 2009
    July 2009
    June 2009
    May 2009
    April 2009
    March 2009
    February 2009
    January 2009
    December 2008
    November 2008
    October 2008
    September 2008
    August 2008
    July 2008
    June 2008
    May 2008
    April 2008
    March 2008
    February 2008
    January 2008
    December 2007
    November 2007
    October 2007
    September 2007
    August 2007
    July 2007
    June 2007
    May 2007
    April 2007
    March 2007
    February 2007
    January 2007
    December 2006
    November 2006
    October 2006
    September 2006
    August 2006
    July 2006
    June 2006
    May 2006
    April 2006
    March 2006
    February 2006
    January 2006
    December 2005
    November 2005
    October 2005
    September 2005
    August 2005
    June 2005
    May 2005
    April 2005
    March 2005
    February 2005
    January 2005
    December 2004
    November 2004

    Google

    Olbermann Watch Masthead

    Managing Editor

    Robert Cox
    olby at olbywatch dot com

    Contributors

    Mark Koldys
    Johnny Dollar's Place

    Brandon Coates
    OlbyWatch

    Chris Matthews' Leg
    Chris Matthews' Leg

    Howard Mortman
    Extreme Mortman

    Trajan 75
    Think Progress Watch

    Konservo
    Konservo

    Doug Krile
    The Krile Files

    Teddy Schatz
    OlbyWatch

    David Lunde
    Lundesigns

    Alex Yuriev
    Zubrcom

    Red Meat
    OlbyWatch



    Technorati Links to OlbyWatchLinks to OlbermannWatch.com

    Technorati Links to OlbyWatch Blog posts tagged with "Olbermann"

    Combined Feed
    (OlbyWatch + KO Mini-blog)

    Who Links To Me


    Mailing List RSS Feed
    Google Groups
    Subscribe to Olbermann Watch Mailing List
    Email:
    Visit this group



    XML
    Add to Google
    Add to My Yahoo!
    Subscribe with Bloglines
    Subscribe in NewsGator Online

    Add to My AOL
    Subscribe with Pluck RSS reader
    R|Mail
    Simpify!
    Add to Technorati Favorites!

    Subscribe in myEarthlink
    Feed Button Help


    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    December 5, 2006
    GUEST POST - Charles Martel on KO's Vietnam Special Comment

    We encourage Guest Posts (pro-KO, anti-KO or otherwise so long as they are on KO-centric topics). Today's Guest Post is from OlbyWatch reader Charles Martel.

    ============

    Keith's Special Comment of November 20, 2006 was not just about Keith disrespecting the president or Bill O'Reilly. It is a matter of life and death because, unfortunately, because people actually believe what he says on MSNBC.

    Olbermann began saying "it is pathetic to hear the leader of the free world talk so unrealistically about Vietnam, when it was he who permitted the Swift Boating of not one, but two American heroes of that war in consecutive presidential campaigns."

    Now the verb "to swift boat" might mean something different on Olby planet, we can't be sure how his mind works. So President Bush "Permitted the Swift Boating" of John Kerry. First it should be noted that Swift Boat Veterans for Truth were not affiliated with Bush. Olbermann, who strong condemned Newt Gingrich for his imagined attack on freedom of speech apparently has no problem with calling on President Bush to suppress the speech of the American heroes who made up Kerry's chain of command in Vietnam. In OlbyWorld the president should not have "permitted" hundreds of veterans from telling their story.

    Next he says "Mr. Bush" learned the wrong lessons from Vietnam.

    Olby’s "primary" lesson: He says "that if you try to pursue a war for which the nation has lost its stomach, you and it are finished, ask Lyndon Johnson". The nation lost its "stomach" for the war well before it was "finished". Johnson, of course, lost his reelection bid in 1968 but Bush can't be elected again. Maybe Keith is threatening the president here? Maybe just predicting impeachment or some similar future which Olbermann considers to be a state of "finished".

    Lesson 2: Olbermann says: "Mr. Bush, if you don't have a stable local government to work with, you can keep sending in Americans until hell freezes over and it will not matter." The flaw here is that we really haven't increased the amount of forces. In fact, the opposite is the case. The U.S. force in Iraq is not much smaller than it was in 2003. Perhaps this is Olbermann's advice against the position of even some democrats that more troops might help?

    Lesson 3 is summarized in that Olby considers that Iraq is not part of the "War on Terror". Well Keith, American forces are fighting terrorists in Iraq. Islamic extremists do believe it's their duty to kill us and it's generally accepted that if we leave, it would be seen as a victory for our enemies and Iraq will become a safe haven for terrorists.

    Lesson 4: Olbermann claims that "the same idiots" who persuaded presidents under the guise "peace with honor" to stay in Vietnam are telling Bush to stay in Iraq. He them mentions Henry Kissinger. The most famous instance of politicians claiming "peace with honor" was Neville Chamberlain justifying his appeasement of Hitler. Ironically, we today are appeasing Iran (developing nuclear weapons, calling for the destruction of Israel regularly, biggest exporter of terrorism, Hezbollah paymasters), who also happens to be causing the majority of problems in Iraq.

    Lesson 5: Olbermann says that like Lyndon Johnson's, Bush's "presidency will be consigned to the scrap heap of history" because of the war. I guess Olby is telling Bush he should be worried about how history remembers him. Is this really a lesson of Vietnam? Worry about how history will remember you?

    Next he charges the president with lying about the WMDs and here.

    Lets also not forget The New York Times story that included this:

    Among the dozens of documents in English were Iraqi reports written in the 1990's and in 2002 for United Nations inspectors in charge of making sure Iraq abandoned its unconventional arms programs after the Persian Gulf war. Experts say that at the time, Mr. Hussein's scientists were on the verge of building an atom bomb, as little as a year away.

    Keith then talks about the millions killed in Vietnam and 58,000 American soldiers dead. I'll point out that we are still under 3,000 Americans dead today and none of those soldiers were drafted and the great majority want to be there and believe what they are doing is right. As for the Iraqi civilian deaths it should be noted that an extremely small amount (140 roughly) are due to American collateral damage. And a case can also be made that the deaths that would have occurred if Saddam was still in power (death factories, starvation under corrupt "oil for food" and the centuries old Sunni/Shite hatred) are greater than in the chaos today.

    Olbermann essentially then says our leaving Iraq will also embolden no one. Well this guy tends to disagree. And terrorists being emboldened?

    Olbermann closes by saying "we'll succeed unless we quit" is wrong and that we can only succeed against terrorism when "Mr. Bush" quits.

    The Vietnam War was a very complicated matter, and no amount of Olby spin is going to help understand its lessons. We fought the war with both hands tied behind our back. This was the essential lesson of the war.

    U.S. troops were forbidden from entering North Vietnam, and also forbidden until the last two weeks of the war was the strategic bombing of Hanoi and Haiphong. We also failed to block the North's ports to prevent the entry of Soviet and Chinese supplies, bombs and ammunition which also built the enemy's resolve for the irrational fear that it would provoke the Chinese into war. Politicians were taking the decisions out of the hands of the military men.

    We lost the Vietnam war here, at home. Any attempt Nixon made to fight the war correctly was protested. Politicians, too worried about being reelected and anti-war sentiment, acted not to win the war. Just like Olby is trying to do now, the media made everything worse. One small example: The Tet offensive was a great victory for the Americans, it was the first time they really got a fair fight with the enemy and Olbermann's heroes in the press somehow turned it into an American defeat (Cronkite's "unwinnable" statement came in the wake of Tet)

    So can this all be summarized fairly well as "we'll succeed unless we quit" as the lesson from Vietnam?

    Yeah, I think so.


    Posted by Robert Cox | Permalink | Comments (24) | | View blog reactions
    user-pic

    24 Comments

    The defeatest attitude is at a fever pitch here in the media. I think it's quite disgusting in which the manner of this war has been reported.

    The Al Jazeera mentality truly reigns within NBC news and the NY Times.

    We're now "numb" towards all the leaks and breaches of ethics. These leakers should truly be ashamed of themselves and are traitors to this country in my view.

    L.F.

    "These leakers should truly be ashamed of themselves and are traitors to this country in my view."

    So, under your analysis Woodward and Bernstein should have been jailed for reporting Watergate? Remember, that story was broken because "Deep Throat" leaked information to them.

    "Any attempt Nixon made to fight the war correctly was protested."

    And what exactly do you mean by "fight the war correctly"? Please elaborate.

    Nixon broke the law... I think there is a subtle difference here that you fail to recognize.

    You idiots are under the impression that we need a transparent government/action plan when it comes to dealing with terrorists.

    So what if Rumsfeld wrote a memo before he resigned that stated a change of course?
    You think David Gregory needs to know everything?

    Olbermann is a pussy. He's afraid to debate anyone who opposes his view and he's quite content with having his regular shills on every night.

    I tried to watch last night and couldn't. It's easier just to read Johnny Dollar's summary.

    PussyKeith should invite Newt on the show. He doesn't have the balls or the brains to debate Newt.

    L.F.


    Knowingly publishing classified information should be illegal. Why the hell should the American people trust media outlets to correctly decide what should be classified or not. The NY Times has recently said that it was wrong to write a story about a classified issue. Remember Al Jazeera is a "news" organization and has first amendment rights.

    NBC News has been the leader in turning up the assault on the administration while assaulting our senses in the process.

    From Matt Lauer to Tim Russert. And OlbyPlanet is the extreme.

    NBC needs one of those "Howard Dean moments" when the citizen from Iowa stood up and asked Howard Dean why he had to be so nasty? NBC needs that.

    I think Brian Williams is an OK guy and so is Brokaw (retired). But they surround themselves with self-serving a--holes who only care about advancing their self-interest at the expense of the country.

    Look at Scarborough? What the hell happened to him? Whoring his once conservative credentials.

    And Matthews? Cowtowing to Murtha because Matthews was Tip Oneill's boy and Tip gave Murtha a pass on ABSCAM. Matthews by his failure to press Murtha, essentially rewrites history.

    And how about lying on the OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE?? Murtha tells the country that HE HAS THE VOTES for Majority Leader? Only to go down in flames...How's that for public trust?

    Disgusting.

    L.F.

    "PussyKeith should invite Newt on the show."

    He can't, because Newt's a "guest host" and contributor for FOX News. As such, Newt is contractually prohibited from appearing on another channel's news programs without permission from FNC.

    So why not have on someone, any one with an opinion other than his own? Countdown has degenerated into nothing more than a left-wing echo chamber.

    "Nixon broke the law... I think there is a subtle difference here that you fail to recognize."

    Um, Woodward and Berstein didn't KNOW Nixon had broken the law. In hindisght, they were right. But AT THE TIME all they had were suspicions, and based upon your logic that wouldn't have been enough.

    "He can't, because Newt's a "guest host" and contributor for FOX News."

    As a frequent FNC water, I don't recall ever seeing Newt "guest host" anything, only serve as a contributor. However, I've seen a lot of people contribute... both on FNC, MSNBC, and CNN.

    Do you have any evidence of their being a contract prohibiting Newt, or is this an assumption?

    Let's not mistake Olbermann for some later-day Woodward and Bernstein. His investigative journalism is confined to the sports world, he and his staff merely repeat the talking points from the leftist blogs and websites. They don't even bother to fact-check to see if what they put on air is correct, nor do they bother to post an opinion contrary to their own.

    I think FOX would release Newt to debate KO.
    It's hard to take you seriously with posts like that.

    Monkeymann does remind me of Citizen Kane though....Now, there was a journalist!!

    And it still doesn't explain why Olbermann refuses to have anyone on his show who doesn't echo and parrot his own opinions.

    "Let's not mistake Olbermann for some later-day Woodward and Bernstein."

    I'm not - I was just pointing out the position staked out that "all leakers are traitors" is an absurd proposition.

    Nixon really tried to listen to military men such as Admiral McCain(senator McCain's father) but at this point the expansion of the war required to win was too unpopular. Lyndon Johnson faught the war by tying both our hands behind our back. We could have won in months had he listened to the military men and kept politics out of decisions.

    We cannot say a good thing about the Vietnam war, and it is sad that Iraq is becoming just as big of a mess. It is even sadder that not all men and women of draft age did not go to Canada. If no one agrees to fight for capitalistic reasons there would not be any wars. Fight War, not wars..., and if forced into the military turn your rifles on those who command you. Death is the best answer for those who support war..

    We cannot say a good thing about the Vietnam war, and it is sad that Iraq is becoming just as big of a mess. It is even sadder that not all men and women of draft age did not go to Canada. If no one agrees to fight for capitalistic reasons there would not be any wars. Fight War, not wars..., and if forced into the military turn your rifles on those who command you. Death is the best answer for those who support war..

    KO and his friends in the media are borderline tratiors.

    From Fallujah-
    http://billroggio.com/archives/2006/12/the_military_and_the.php

    nice link Charles...

    LF,
    Your argument about leaking applies to Watergate.

    Bush administration apologizers should be careful about calling people cowards.

    You whine what happened to Joe Scarborough? How about what happened to Pat Buchanan, the CATO Institute, William Buckley, etc. The Weekly Standard even has an article titled "The Conservative Revolt."

    C. Martel,

    Bush did permit the "swift boating". He could have easily condemned those ads which would not be supressing free speach as much as disagreeing with what they said. He could have distanced himself from them. Instead all he could do was say all 527 group ads should be stopped knowing this of course would not happen since they are "independent". This is the same guy who let many of these same people that worked on the Swift Boat ads put doubts out about McCain becasue of his experience as a POW in the 2000 primary.


    Primary Lesson...Johnson did not lose he relection bid. He didn't even run for president. Due to his fighting a war the people didn't like, his own party fractured and he decided it was better to step aside. Yeah Bush can't run for president again but I think the last election showed the same thing happening in the republican party. members of the aprty were distancing themselves from Bush.

    Lesson 2... Nice try Charles. You really misrepresented the point here which wasn't about troop levels. It was about sending troops to help prop up a unstable government. We put 500,000 troops into Vietnam and that did nothing. The government fell. We have far less in Iraq but his point was you can send in more or not but the fact we are propping up an unstable government again and we have been through this before and failed.

    You may think we lost the war because we fought with our "hands tied behind our back." I love this point. It is such a cop out and not true. We lost the war because it wasn't our war to fight. We chose to go there(we were not invited by Vietnam but by another country that was occupying the land)) and we chose to get involved in a civil war and we chose a side on that war. Like any great nation before us, we have the ability to lose a war. Yes we used a flawed strategy in Vietnam. Yes we constantly revised the strategy though and it still didn't help us. Yes we won the Tet offensive but that didn't make the people of South Vietnam feel better about us. You know that no nation in history has ever successfully occupied the Vietnam penninsula. You kind of forget about the important historic point when you blame our politicians, military stategy, and media for us losing the war. We should have never even gone there because it wasn't our war. We have a tremendous history of victory in fighting wars that actually involve our direct interests(revolutionary War, War of 1812, French and Indian War, World War I, World War II. We have a horrible track record of getting involved in wars that do not reflect our direct interests(Korea, Vietnam, Iraq 2003).

    Dave

    Of course the Swift Boat team was in bad taste and obviously Bush benefited off of them but this is valid when Olbermann is making Gingrich out to be some anti-freedom of speech Nazi over his advocating against the freedoms of terrorists. Newt was primarily talking about jihadists websites too.

    Yes, it is fair to say Johnson lost his reelection bid. From wikipedia “his reelection bid in 1968 collapsed as a result of turmoil in his party”….So yea, he lost the reelection bid.

    I know republicans were distancing themselves from Bush. What I was getting at here is Olby’s overdramatic “No you’re finished Mister Bush!”. Olbermann is so obviously playing to his irrational ‘hate Bush’ base that it’s embarrassing that he’s even considered a ‘journalist’.

    So next, you are just talking about the inherent nature of “unstable governments” and how you believe it is doomed to fail. OK. Again, Obviously, unstable governments don’t help anything but this is about more Olbyspin that were sending victimized kids “Until hell freezes over!” to their sure deaths. The fact that the government is unstable is, of course, valid in rational debate…but in Olbyworld it’s used to insult both the President and Bill O’Reilly, not to make any coherent point of argument.

    You basically say in the last paragraph that we never should have gone to Iraq. That’s your opinion and you may well turn out to be correct. I still believe that the “hands tied behind the back” is valid. I’m not the only one with that opinion, most military men of the time have it too. Again, you CAN believe that going into Vietnam was wrong and still understand that we fought it all incorrectly. This manner in which we fought is what ultimately doomed us, not choosing the wrong fight. That is what is impossible to drill into the mind of Olbyloons. Yea, Nam looks like a stupid war to have fought in hindsight…but we could have won in months had we done it right.

    How are the South Vietnamese people or Iraqi people supposed to think well of us when all they see is anti-war press and a country that’s ready to pull out? Would you as an Iraqi fight for freedom when it’s almost certain that you’re going to be abandon by the U.S.? Why not seek protection from the Shiite rebels who look like the new top dog with their new Iranian guns? I see a stronger link between our determination(or lack there of) and the resolve of the insurgency than anything else. So yea, we probably will lose Iraq.

    Dave

    Of course the Swift Boat team was in bad taste and obviously Bush benefited off of them but this is valid when Olbermann is making Gingrich out to be some anti-freedom of speech Nazi over his advocating against the freedoms of terrorists. Newt was primarily talking about jihadists websites too.

    Yes, it is fair to say Johnson lost his reelection bid. From wikipedia “his reelection bid in 1968 collapsed as a result of turmoil in his party”….So yea, he lost the reelection bid.

    I know republicans were distancing themselves from Bush. What I was getting at here is Olby’s overdramatic “No you’re finished Mister Bush!”. Olbermann is so obviously playing to his irrational ‘hate Bush’ base that it’s embarrassing that he’s even considered a ‘journalist’.

    So next, you are just talking about the inherent nature of “unstable governments” and how you believe it is doomed to fail. OK. Again, Obviously, unstable governments don’t help anything but this is about more Olbyspin that were sending victimized kids “Until hell freezes over!” to their sure deaths. The fact that the government is unstable is, of course, valid in rational debate…but in Olbyworld it’s used to insult both the President and Bill O’Reilly, not to make any coherent point of argument.

    You basically say in the last paragraph that we never should have gone to Iraq. That’s your opinion and you may well turn out to be correct. I still believe that the “hands tied behind the back” is valid. I’m not the only one with that opinion, most military men of the time have it too. Again, you CAN believe that going into Vietnam was wrong and still understand that we fought it all incorrectly. This manner in which we fought is what ultimately doomed us, not choosing the wrong fight. That is what is impossible to drill into the mind of Olbyloons. Yea, Nam looks like a stupid war to have fought in hindsight…but we could have won in months had we done it right.

    How are the South Vietnamese people or Iraqi people supposed to think well of us when all they see is anti-war press and a country that’s ready to pull out? Would you as an Iraqi fight for freedom when it’s almost certain that you’re going to be abandon by the U.S.? Why not seek protection from the Shiite rebels who look like the new top dog with their new Iranian guns? I see a stronger link between our determination(or lack there of) and the resolve of the insurgency than anything else. So yea, we probably will lose Iraq.

    O'Lie-

    Nice...Stop wars by killing your own leaders...makes sense on Olby-planet

    So, taking this to the next step, the members of the continental army, should have killed Geo Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, et al. instead of fighting the British and winning independence from England

    The GI's of the 1940's should have killed Patton, MacArthur, FDR, Harry Truman, et al and let the Japanese have the Pacific and the western edge of the US while letting Hitlerand his ilk complete thetake over of Europe, Northern Africa, the USSR

    If those guys had only done any of that, then Vietnam and Iraq would never have happened and O'Lie would be happy and he could kick back and watch Olbermann and....umm, wait a sec...no revolutionary war...no creation of USA, no bill of rights, no first amendment freedom of the press...no Olby...what to do, what to do, what to do...