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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    December 22, 2006
    How Still We See Him Lie

    Repeat a lie often enough, and people will start to believe it. That's doubly true of Olbypologists who swallow every regurgitated line from the infamous, deplorable one. So it's no surprise that, even after he's been caught, and just three days before Christmas, Monkeymann still thinks he can get away with rewriting history.

    MADMAN

    Just a few days ago we documented Herr Olbermann's attempt to make himself look good by misrepresenting what he said on his own "news" program. Today, discussing the Duke rape case with Dan Patrick on ESPN radio, Krazy Keith did it again:

    We only covered this story once on Countdown.

    Not content with reiterating this blatant lie, Citizen Keith went even further. In an attempt to puff himself up by disparaging others, he made the preposterous claim that he was the lone observer perceptive enough to see the "murkiness" of the case:

    The other cable outfits just did it to death, uh, with the assumption that these guys were guilty. And I think everybody has treated this with the assumption that these guys were guilty of the worst, worst of the possible crimes.

    Say what?!? Either the air is thinner than ever on OlbyPlanet, or the guy is certifiably delusional. Or...it's just Another Olbermann Lie.


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (176) | | View blog reactions
    user-pic

    176 Comments

    Olby is guilty of every charge he has made against Bill O'Reilly. Olby lovers are blind to that fact.

    FAT ASS is at the zenith of his career. It's all down hill from here.

    I see O'Reillys book " Culture Warrior" is in the TOP TEN non-fiction sellers for the year. That's gotta sting, considering TUB O LARD's book was a flash in the pan and dropped like it was an anchor.

    "I see O'Reillys book " Culture Warrior" is in the TOP TEN non-fiction sellers for the year."

    At #10, with just under 360,000 copies sold.

    Just out of curiosity, how many of those are "bulk sales" to groups? (If you'll note on the N.Y. Times list, books with a dagger insignia next to them indicate the numbers are inflated by such sales.)

    Olbermann didn't benefit from conservative groups buying his book by the case (at a reduced price) and then giving them away.

    Number 10, although it has only been available for 3 months. Quite an accomplishment.

    Olbermann's book may not have done that well simply because of it's lightweight "Worst Person in the World" subject matter. O'Reilly's book implied a more serious subject matter. I buy books based on subject matter, not who 'wrote' them.

    Compare their ratings if you want, but comparing the book sales is not relevant.

    Herr Oafy: "The other cable outfits just did it to death, uh, with the assumption that these guys were guilty."

    The coverage of the Duke case on Fox News was slightly bent to the player's innocence if anything. Multiple anchors said they "didn't want to try the case on the air" while discussing it and kept the coverage 100% fair and balanced, reporting only the facts.

    So if comparing book sales is not relevant as Mike claims then why did Olby have to remind his viewing audience at every available opportunity where he was on "The New York Times List of Political Books" (which I still haven't found a link to), or in the top sellers at Wal-Mart (funny, never saw it in my local Wal-Mart)? He certainly seemed to think book sales were relevant as he announced his position on Amazon's "best seller" list more than once.

    Again, the Olbyloons just keep on offering up excuses and trying to write free passes for their idol.

    Olbermann's book is not the same as Bill O' Reilly's book as in the fact that Olbermann's book is a compedium of stuff that he has already stated in the past.

    Brandon, I didn't offer any excuses. I explained why I personally wasn't interested in his book and suggested the subject matter might have something to do with is.

    I've said a hundred times that I'm not a fan of Olbermann. In my opinion, he clearly has just as many personal flaws as O'Reilly does. What I AM a fan of is the way he has been speaking out against this zero administration that is in the process of destroying my country.

    The term 'olbyloon' could easily apply to someone obsessed with someone they DON'T like!

    So what is behind this loony obsession with someone you don't like and whose ideas you reject? And....pulleese, don't give me the same old "but he calls it a news show" or "he's not really a journalist" arguments. My answer to those arguments is...so what! Whats with YOUR obsession?

    Bill O' Reilly wrote an authored book.

    Last time I checked, O'Reilly's 'Culture Warrior' was still no.4 on the New York Times Nonfiction Bestseller list. What number is KO's???

    You anti Olberman junkies are the only ones who CARES how low his book sales are, other than Olbermann himself! Why can't you see that?

    Wow, BOR beat KO by 2,010,000 last night, man thats gotta hurt! Go ahead say it, get it overwith.

    KO was off and running reruns. BOR wasn't off. BOR usually beats KO easily, but not by that much. Whats your point?

    More Olbermann misrepresentations at....

    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/entertainment/16289004.htm

    Just a small taste....

    "As his profile has risen, so has criticism of his provocative style. This summer, amid an on-air feud with O'Reilly, he addressed a gathering of television critics by donning a mask of the Fox News host and giving a Nazi salute.

    "A network spokesman said the gesture was intended as a satirical comment.

    "Robert Cox, who runs Olbermann Watch, a critical blog that monitors the cable news host's comments, said that Olbermann employs some of the same tactics that he decries.

    "`I think at the end of the day he has, by and large, become that which he has criticized -- a demagogue like Bill O'Reilly,' said Cox, a management consultant in New Rochelle, N.Y.

    "Olbermann rejects the comparison."
    (Surprise....what a freakin liar!)

    "'I'm not trying to whip up a political frenzy,' he said. `If I was out there every night beating people over the head with this, I would become a Rush Limbaugh. That's not my goal. I don't make the facts up to fit the political viewpoint that happens to parallel what it is I'm trying to express."

    ###
    Hey Keith....YOU ARE THE RADICAL LEFT'S RUSH LIMBAUGH without the good self deprecating humor.....or the HUGE audience for that matter.

    I am no Rush fan....but can anyone defend Olbermann's assertion that he is not, "out there every night beating people over the head with this."

    How many O'Reilly WPITW hit jobs has there been?

    And this is LAUGHABLE.....

    "I don't make the facts up to fit the political viewpoint that happens to parallel what it is I'm trying to express."

    ###
    I just can't believe he said this about himself with a straight face!

    His Special Comments have been documented to be full of absolute falsehoods.

    Just another example of the manipulation and lies of The deplorable Herr Olbermann.

    BTW, Congratulations Robert on another MSM quote!

    cee,

    I am always late with a comment but I think you were talking about Jack Murtha on the previous thread. Below is a link to a very interesting, and disturbing piece on Haditha. Just because the majority of people believe something happened, doesn't make it necessarily so. You won't see this kind of analysis on Countdown.

    http://euphoricreality.com/2006/12/22/unraveling-haditha/

    Mike, I don't owe you any explanation at all but what the heck, it's Christmastime and I'm in a giving mood. But I do take note of the fact that you seem to think that Olbermann's show being labeled news instead of opinion isn't a valid reason to dislike him, when it most certainly is. Olbermann is an insult to everything journalism is supposed to be. He has repeatedly stated in interview after interview he isn't biased, and not politically-motivated in any way and has no interest in one side or the other and yet presents THE most biased hour on television. And yes, that hour is mis-labeled as NEWS, not opinion. I guess you decided you'd dismiss that as a reason because it is entirely valid. But there are so many reasons to dislike Olbermann. Where do I begin?

    He's arrogant, egotistical, and every bit as full of himself as Limbaugh & O'Reilly, neither of whom I care for. I dislike Olbermann because he can't admit to being wrong, doesn't correct his mistakes, and openly LIES as he did about the number of times he'd covered the Duke case on-air.

    I guess a better question might be this: what's there to like? You admit yourself you like him only because he tilts the news the way you want it tilted. I've got news for you, that's not journalism.

    And I'll ask you and your fellow Olbermann-apologists NOT to respond by telling me how awful Fox News supposedly is. I seldom watch them and don't find the standard excuse of "But Fox does......" to be a valid one to explain away Olbermann's clear biases. Neither is acceptable to me however at least Fox does label Hannity/Colmes & O'Reilly as opinion.

    Sorry, it looks like the site was sabotaged- figures. There was a greta deal of facts to show what really may have happened, at least what did not happen. I am going to try to find out what happened to the link.

    Dr. Lapdog:
    STEM CELL RESEARCH....

    Which, despite the lies of The Dems, the US is LEADING in this great potential area...

    Cee just lies and lies and lies...and hopes no one will notice.
    Upon checking, the US, DOES NOT lead the world in stem cell research.WE COME IN AT 6TH.


    Israel leads the world in stem cell research per capita and it was confirmed by a German study, conducted by the Central Library of the Research Center Julich.

    According to the report, which covers the years 2000-2004, Israel publishes 113 articles per every 1 million citizens, a ratio that exceeds any other country in the world. Israel is followed in rank by Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Austria. The US places at sixth.

    Dr. Lapdog also failed to mention that Bush issued the first veto of his six-year-old administration in July, rejecting Congress's bid to lift funding restrictions on human embryonic stem cell research.


    So when Cee talks about the lies on the left...if he is moving his lips, you know he's the one doing the lying.

    He is on the radio show this week and off his night time job, well, which is fine, but I don't understand why he did not bother to find fill-ins instead of doing rerun and rerun. What is he telling MSNBC? He gets a backup plan or something. He does not care his night-time job, MSNBC.

    Keith's a Fraud, a fake, a phony. He has his foolish fans deluded into believing he actually cares about the subjects of his "special comments" and the "truth". Please, it's all part of a cold, calculated career move on his part, just like everything in his life is a calculated career move. He's a hypocrite who says one thing, making fun of people on air for something when he's doing far worse off-air. And before one of you idiots pops up and says you dont' care what he does in his personal life remember this: character counts. And Keith's is sorely lacking. You think it's an accident that he's so disliked by his former coworkers? Just look at what he's doing now, asking for a huge, whopping pay raise when hundreds of employees have been laid off at MSNBC, NBC, CNBC and the other NBC-Universal Owned & Operated stations. He KNOWS this and yet what does he want them to do? Pay him more and lay off more people who make a pittance and are just struggling to put food on their families tables. Did you know that MSNBC uses non-union labor? Did you know that MSNBC uses an employment agency to avoid having to pay their employees benefits such as health insurance? And what has Keith said on that score? Nothing. Nada. You'd think that if he actually cared about Democratic ideals and general human decency, he'd use the "moral force" he's always preaching about, that moral compass he claims he has to do something to improve the plight of his fellow employees. But nope, hypocritical Keith just wants all the money he can possibly get so he can blow it on broads and baseball cards. And you want to know why I dislike him? Please. There are FOUR million good reasons.

    Brandon:

    Agreed, you certainly owe me no explanations. However since you did, I will also agree that your explanations ARE in fact a valid reason to dislike him...for you!

    Admittantly, Olbermann is a flawed character. Everytime he blows his own horn pumping up his own ratings (as if anybody but him and MSNBC actually care), I am tempted to change the channel. He attacks O'Reilly to the point of obsession, and he does sound a little pompous at times.

    I like him when he is serious and when he is leveling direct, well deserved criticizm at this administration, who I've already said is a total zero in my opinion. Until recently, he seemed to be pretty much the only one doing it.

    That said, I dislike lots of TV celebrities for a lot of reasons that make perfect sense to me, but I spend almost no time attacking, criticizing, or watching those particular characters.

    Merry Christmas!

    Sharm says :There is a disturbing piece on Haditha. Just because the majority of people believe something happened, doesn't make it necessarily so.

    So when you go to the site listed it says,"Oops there's nothing here"
    Which is so appropriate.

    When you consider that the military first tried to cover up what happened at Haditha,you would think that they WOULD NOT have charged those soldiers with murder if they could have gotten away with it.
    They couldn't and they didn't.

    I think the fact that the military was forced to do the right thing here supercedes Euphoric reality.com.'s opinions.

    Euphoricreality.com!
    Give me a break !

    I just read the site and then it was messed up. It wasn't just an opinion but a fully written piece that had links to other sources. I was one of those who thought the marines went nuts because of battle fatigue/ptsd. I got the link from the Jawa Report.

    "Last time I checked, O'Reilly's 'Culture Warrior' was still no.4 on the New York Times Nonfiction Bestseller list. What number is KO's???"

    Again, Bill's numbers are inflated by "bulk sales" to conservative groups who then give the book to their members for free. That's what the little dagger next to Bill's name on the print editions of the N.Y. Times list means.

    Fillins, reruns it does not matter, most of the KO's viewers would watch even if he repeated the same program night after night, it would still be news to them!

    Hell, it is reruns almost every night....The number 5 story on the countdown, why (whatever Bush/Cheney0 did today) is nothing but lies and attacking the media. The number 4 story, some liberal journalist on the MSNBC payroll to discuss the political implications. Number 3 story, why whatever the number 5 story was is bad for Republicans and how the Dems should attack it, with a partisan analyst, strategist, or blogger.

    Number 2 is Oddball. And tonight's number one story ofn the Countdown...TomKat, Brangelina, Britney Spears, Lindsey Lohan and Paris Hilton.

    Tune in tomorrow when we'll discuss all the same stories and start plugging my next Special Comment.

    Dugan: You don't have a clue what "most KO viewers would watch"!

    Mike, you are right, I have no clue why KO viewers watch countdown.

    Mike, you are right, I have no clue why KO viewers watch countdown.

    To 'Bob' about Haditha: The charges against these soldiers were based on (just a few examples): (a) hearsay from THE ENEMY; (b) Jack Murtha's typical slander of our troops (right out of the playbook of John Kerry c.1971); and (c) a Time magazine hack - er, reporter out to make our troops look bad. I should note that it is in no small part because of this "politically correct" attitude, that our troops are being "picked off," one by one, in Iraq. What with such charges against their fellow soldiers, is it any wonder why the troops out on the field would hesitate to do anything, when facing those whom the media (including K.O.) fawningly calls "insurgents"?

    Frankly, it's Murtha and that Time reporter (whom I'm deliberately leaving nameless) who have a lot to answer for here.

    But it's also disgusting how Bush, Rumsfeld et al., have allowed these soldiers to be left to hang out to dry in the media's kangaroo court of manipulating public opinion. And the Olberrated One certainly counts as being part and parcel of this "media kangaroo court."

    DUGUN: Maybe for the same reason that children like watching Sesame Street... that green grouch in the trash can... some Olbermann hater would say.

    As for Olberthehill's "spin" on the Duke "rape" case (or, as Michael Savage has so eloquently referred to the "accuser," the "Durham Dirtbag" case): This may be an example of why the media has been aiming to have news content covered under "copyright protection" legislation, and thus subject to a so-called "broadcast flag" - nothing to do with "preventing piracy," but rather to protect the liberal media monopoly and silence their many critics. Because if you or I are prohibited by law from recording shows such as "Lowdown" - er, "Countdown," then it would become "Krazy Keith's" word vs. his critics'. Now, of course, because we can tape over the air, there's documentation that he beat the Duke "horse" to death many times earlier this year. But what if there were a "broadcast flag" affixed to "Countdown"? That would effectively enable him to get away with his "I only covered it once and let it go after that" lie, and accuse his critics of being "right-wing partisans" (or words to that effect). This factor becomes especially relevant as the "old" analogue TV becomes "cut off" in favor of all-digital TV after 2009 - and the Hollywood totalitarians, in partnership with their stooges in Congress, have been using copyright law as a weapon of mass destruction, to seek to usurp our rights in this regard.

    EE, what is the significance meriting two posts that Bill O's sales are higher because of bulk sales to conservative groups? Is there some rule applying only to poor KO that puts him at an unfair advantage? If George Soros wanted to buy a million of KO's books the publisher wouldn't sell them?

    You remind me of a little kid whose team lost. He will snifflingly tell anyone who will listen a million reasons why it was unfair and they would have won if only.. And the truth is that they played better, smarter and harder playing kids.

    The name of this site is Olbermann Watch. What KO makes an issue of day in and day out becomes an issue here day in and day out. In a two way race with KO the FACT is that BO SKUNKED KO. No ifs, ands or buts!!

    Your posts are symptomatic of KO's hard core fans posting on OW. Every point is counterpointed with 'yeah, but BO, Rush, Buchannan, Foley, the Pope, the kid down the street did the same thing or worse. Under those rules no one has responsibility for anything.

    Get over it. BO wrote a better book that sold much more than KO's book. And tomorrow the sun will rise and earth will not come a screeching halt.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    W.B.

    When you occupy a country, attrocities, both real and imagined are GOING to happen. You can take that to the bank. Just like Mi Lia in Vietnam and so many others that never came to light.

    When you occupy a country, it is GOING to spiral out of your control. We apparently learned nothing from Vietnam and Korea, or the Neocons in control didn't anyway. Trying to forcefully impose our values and culture onto an alien country is going to be a mistake every time.

    Some of us seemed to have learned exactly the WRONG lessons from Vietnam. No, we didn't lose because we "lost our will". We didn't lose because the "military wasn't allowed to win", and we didn't lose because of people like John Kerry. We lost because we stuck ourselves in the middle of someone else's civil war.

    Like it or not, there will always be the John Murthas, the John Kerrys, and the other doubters. There will always be the Hadithas, the Mi Lais, the Abu Gharabs, and the like. Like it or not, the American people will never stay behind a foreign occupation adventure for any length of time. It's simple human nature.

    This is why invading Iraq for no compelling reason that can be logically explained was at best...a terrible idea, and at worst...criminal! We should have been smarter and we should have had leaders who knew better.

    Mike, it is late and I am piddling around with something else so I don't want to devote much to your post.

    Go back and do a little reading. Vietnam WAS NOT A CIVIL WAR. It was a in reality a war of aggression funded by the ChiComs and the Ruskies.

    We were invited and begged to help by the legitimate government of Vietnam. President Eisenhower sent advisors and funding from the early mid fifties.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet:

    I disagree!!!!

    Sure the Soviets and the 'Chicoms' were part of the equation, but a civil war it was. It had been one since before the French were driven out.

    My point remains. We didn't learn our lessons and we are paying the price now!

    Olbermann next book is The Koran part 2!

    WOw, this Red Wolf guy sure is smart!

    I don't get this Left-wing-Neo-Nazi-Islamic coalition. It not logically!

    "Baghdad ER" is a documentary about a "CASH," a Combat Support Hospital in Baghdad. I recommend it for every American, but the queasy be warned: it is excruciating. I cringed at the gore, was sickened by the death, wept at the frustration and resignation of the medics, at the faith of the chaplain, at the simple, shocked, blank expressions on the faces of kids younger than my son – victims of this fool’s war. Listening to the bravado of some, aching to comfort those who came in knowing they were hurt but not how badly, made me want to scream. Watching this horrifying, endless process, the tears on my face kept drying from the heat of my anger. Glorious, generous, talented, dedicated human beings forced to be part of this circus of carnage made me so furious I couldn’t speak at the end.

    I loathe the people who have created this monstrosity. I want the criminals who lied and cheated and pretended and twisted and perverted reality - and those who rationalized their crimes - so they could send over 2400 servicemen and woman to their death, nearly 18,000 to come home torn - some never to be whole again - thousands more to suffer mental damage, and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians to be swept into the garbage can of "collateral damage," to pay. These bastards and their apologists should be stripped naked and forced to walk the main streets of America, allowing every city and town that has lost a loved one to injury or death in this shameful catastrophe to heap on them the scorn they deserve.

    John F. Kennedy said America would never start a war. Well, it has now, and its architects have damaged our character, poisoned our standing in the world and soiled the soul of what was once the greatest nation in the history of the world.

    2400 dead and 18,000 mangled americans will not be having a merry christmas.
    If Congress appropriates the $99 billion they are asking for, the sum total of this war will be around half a trillion dollars.

    What have we gained from this carnage and colossol waste of money ?
    Can anyone tell me ?

    "Get over it. BO wrote a better book that sold much more than KO's book."

    It only sold much more because conservative groups bought thousands of copies for far below market price, then turn around and give the copies as part of their "membership package" or as a "bonus".

    This is a common tactic on the right - I can rattle off a half-dozen conservative authors whose books were awful in commercial sales, yet the numbers of "units" moved would make it a best-seller. Which is why the Times started tracking bulk orders - they skew the statistics because books that have no political bent (such as self-help books or biographies) are placed at an unfair advantage.

    I know of no liberal groups that buy books in bulk and then give them away (I know of several that offer "sponsorship links", where the group gets a cut when someone buys the book through a portal on another website).

    Bottom sales - individuals buying the book - are a much better indicator of a book's popularity than numbers that can be manipulated by the "gross".

    In other words, Grammie, you can't compare the two because one has a distinct competitive advantage. It would be like comparing the sales at a Mom & Pop Deli to Subway.

    Anon, if you and Mike agree JFK, per your post, said America would never start a war was the first American president to start a war. He sent the first US troops into Vietnam.

    I sometimes have a more vivid empathy, or imagination, than I am comfortable with. However, your imagination seems a bit excessive to me. One line of several in the same vein was:

    "the tears on my face kept drying from the heat of my anger."

    Anon, you may be a regular poster at this site or you might not. I therefore have no guage to judge you by. But, I will say this. The last time I read a line like that quoted from you above, it was as a young girl/woman in a romance novel oozing phrases like "his manhood was so firey it dried the tears that had soaked my dress".

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet: who the hell are you to judge me ?
    Besides,you should be judging the people who have created this chamber of horrors.

    Your comments reveal that you must not have a soul.

    President Dwight D. Eisenhower sent the first U.S. military and civilian advisers to Vietnam in 1955.

    These bastards and their apologists should be stripped naked and forced to walk the main streets of America, allowing every city and town that has lost a loved one to injury or death in this shameful catastrophe to heap on them the scorn they deserve.

    I concur.

    Does Red Wolf have a soul? Maybe, but he sure does lack a brain!

    EE, I would concede the point to you if you could provide hard data re sales of books to various outlets. In other words, the number of books sold in bulk volume to conservative groups as opposed to bulk sales to the largest commercial distributors and other commercial sales would drag BO's sales so far down as to change the ratings substantially.

    I would also want hard data that definitively illustrated that KO had no such outlets available to him. If he did and they opted to not buy and distribute his book then, in all fairness, GRAMMIE WINS!

    I am a firm, long long time conservative and no one ever gave me a free book. So, naturally, personal experience always looming large in our own minds I am confident that you won't be serving me crow. Not to worry, Grammie has a reputation as a first class cook. Any crow I serve will be five star fare. I hope you like cold crow. On principal I always serve crow cold :).

    There are a lot of variables in so simple a debate as this. I assume (as an officer and a gentleman) I will hear from you and between us we can declare a winner.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Anon, I'm not judging you so much as I am questioning how much poetic license you used and why would you bury the true import of your story in such overdone tripe.

    If I have misjudged you it is my mistake. But, based on my life experience, my first impression on reading your post was that you are a high schooler writing the opening lines of the great American drama.

    Again, I can't place you because you used the generic anon. If you are new to this site rest assured that if you continue to post here you might look back on my remarks with nostalgic fondness.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    President Dwight D. Eisenhower sent the first U.S. military and civilian advisers to Vietnam in 1955.

    Anon, I believe Truman gave financial aid beginning '50 or '51 to the French who withdrew in '53 or '54. After they withdrew Eisenhower continued the financial aid and added 300 or 400 non combatant advisors to the South Vietnamese. The first troops, 500 or 600, were sent by JFK in 1961. I don't think JFK sent more than 3,000 or 4,000 troops total, but he was the first American president to send troops that engaged in combat with the North Vietnamese.

    Its not a broad point, but neither is it a fine point. JFK sent the first combat troops to Vietnam following a decade of assistance by two prior presidents that did not involve combat troops.

    Johnson seems to have either followed JFK's lead or stepped out boldly on his own to move out from under JFK's shadow. I've heard it argued both ways. I, personally, think it is immaterial to the broader question.

    It is material to the question of JFK's performance as a president. I never noticed Camelot where I lived. But I approved of his tax policy and also containing Communism wherever it raised its ugly head.

    On the flip side, many who worship him were anti Vietnam and anti anti communist. Go figure.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Red Wolf
    Will Keith use a ghost writer for that book too?

    I firmly belive that Olby's zombie viewers would watch a test pattern for hours if you put the words HATE BUSH! on it.

    And then they would post what brilliant journalist Keith was for being so cutting edge.

    Nancy Pelosi has denied Brian(C-Span)Lamb's request for more cameras in meetings and in the chamber.

    Wait! I thought Pelosi said this was going to be the most OPEN and ETHICAL congress in history? And Nancy is restricting the freedoms of C-Span cameras? WUZ UP WIT THAT?

    By the way, anybody got a ticket to the four day bash Pelosi is giving herself? Only a thousand bucks a ticket. Does that include the meet and greet or is that extra? And will Keith chough up the two grand for himself and Katie or will he try to scam two press passes?

    Oh and whoever the numb skull is that said O'Reilly is full of himself just like Olbermann. A Quick and easy question. How many personal book signings has O'Reilly done for his book so far and how many has Keith done? It's called promoting the product! Book authors do it all the time. If fat ass wants to sit home thats his choice. Or is somebody going to come on here and say Keith has carpol tunnel from throwing those dopey papers at the camera.

    Didn't Olby say in the first few weeks his book was out that it was number two at Wal-Mart? And isn't a Sam's Club right next store? What were you Loons doing going in there? I'm telling John Edwards!!

    Hey for a Man like O'Reilly who is so full of himself he sure was out there promoting his book. And if free signed copies help sales, what's wrong with that? And Bill got crappy reviews while Olby got one puff piece after another.

    And Bill was doing all the talk shows he could. Went in and took it from Letterman and gave it out. Olby was chicken s**t to go on The View because he was afraid of the one conservative woman thats on there.

    Olby should count his blessings that Paula Zhan just mails her show in night after night.

    The clock is ticking on whats left of Olby's career and midnight is coming up fast!

    But I'm here to help. I know what Olby can do after he gets canned. Since his buddy Harry Reid is making hand shake land deals left and right. Maybe Olby can get a job hawking infomercial land deals at 2 A.M. in the morning? Just like that guy from C.H.I.P.S.

    Oh and this moron that says conservative groups brought the book in bulk. First off Lennon last I looked this is a capitolist society and second mind listing these so called conservative groups and how many books they brought? And then genius mind telling the class how many of those books were giving away? Sounds like a rerun of you're old "Passion of The Christ" Argument. Or is this just another pipe dream from Media Matters? It didn't fly then, it don't fly now!!!!!! And it just happen that Olby's book went from 15,000 on the list to number 8 in one night because people were lined up out the door at Borders.

    Go back up to the top of the page Spanky and look!! It doesn't say Daily Kos. The majority of people here are not mindless sheep.

    Oh and don't forget folks in Mike's World if the ratings don't go his way in cable or book sales. It doesn't matter. And then he says he is not an Olby fan but he's not an O'Reilly fan. Then whats he doing here? Giving out Demunderground.com talking points? Could be! I was listing to "The World Cafe" on public radio international and some unknown group called "t.v. on the Radio" was being interviewed and they said they were all bummed out because of Habeas Corpus. Thats all they said, S**t they wouldn't know Habeas Corpus from a Corpus Delectie! (Thank you Slip Mahoney) No we don't use huffington post talking points do we Mike. You're so brilliant and well-versed you don't need talking points.

    Oh and I think the New York Times is getting around to reviewing Culture Warrior. Gee how fair and balanced will that be? I ain't holding my breath! Will they talk about bulk sales?

    And you Loons think the vast majority of America wants to be just like you. I want to know what you are growing in you're parents basement.

    I read Olby's book. My review is posted somewhere on the site. I also read "Culture Warrior". Unlike most Loons on this site who would have trouble getting through "Green Eggs and Ham". And then after, they would have a group discussion on why the Green Eggs were left out of the movie version with Sean Penn. (I Am Sam)

    I've got to stop I'm taking up too much of Johnny's bandwith. But It's so easy!

    In case I jet out of here before Monday I'd like to wish all the clear thinking people here a Very, Merry, Christmas. And a special thank you to Robert Cox and Johnny Dollar for having a true open and free site where one can come and post and not have to worry about one's e-mail being givin out if you don't agree with the collective. God Bless America! And God Bless Olbermannwatch!

    Puck:

    You jus gave it to everbody, din't you? Yer jus SO damn smart it makes mah head spin!

    If ah cud jus git reel smart like U, I cud tell the loons from the "clear thinkers" mahself!

    Many in this era are in a manic war cry for totally dissent which Thomas Jefferson said: dissent is the highest form of patriotism.Keith Olbermann is one of thousands screaming at the top of their lungs to wake America up and you hang him for that. I cant understand it so i guess every one that thinks and has the same views that Keith does is some traitor and needs to be sent to gitmo bay.So all the high level whistleblowers even those from the pentagon and the scholars as well as the tycoons ( that make well double what Keith makes) all of them that have openly spoke out againt the same thing that Keith speaks out about should be hanged or sent to gitmo bay. Get real people he is not the person we should be attacking here, the real enemies in our own backyard our own white house. Tell the soldiers who support people like Keith that it's a bunch of crap to speak out against the real terror our govnermnet who continue to vomit lies and who continue to look the other way while our soldiers get blown up and shot up for bogus reasons.One of you fools that think Keith and others like him are a pit stain on America tell the families of servicemen and ladies that have been killed in Iraq that they died because they didn't believe hard enough in Bush and his lead agenda on false war. This web site is a crock of shit you cant run from the truth by slander you fear that maybe Keith and others like him are right so you snuggle up to slander as a form of dismissal.Get a clue please before you waste your time on websites like this but then again it is fun to come on a post against such an evil spiteful crock of trash such as this website.

    Professor Honeydew, I will have to start calling you Dr. Goebbels soon....your lies are now so severe as to be seen as ideologically pathological....like our good friend Keith Olbermann.

    My Christmas spirit has to put on hold to respond to the baby killer...

    The evil professor who likes to lie spins the numbers to fit his goal to demagogue this sensative issue that so many have genuine and personal stock in. But facts are important, and the truth about STEM Cell research is not what the radical, pro-death left uses.

    A paper published in 2006...

    http://stemcells.alphamedpress.org/cgi/reprint/24/10/2187.pdf

    clearly shows the US is the leader in ALL stem-cell research....

    The paper discusses all original human-embryonic-stem-cell-research publications from 1998 (when such cells were first derived in humans) to the end of 2005. Fully 40 percent of these publications came from one country: THE UNITED STATES. The rest were divided among 20 other nations, with the next nearest competitor (Israel) claiming only 13 percent (42) of the papers. The British came in third with just 9 percent, or 30 publications.

    A very lopsided lead for America, you moron.

    The leftist propaganda continues...an American researcher attempted to try to show Bush's restrictions on FEDERAL FUNDS for new ESC lines put the US behind other countries...their research proved otherwise....I'll quote from NRO...

    "The last major review of embryonic-stem-cell publications, which covered the period from 1998 to 2004, was undertaken earlier this year by two American researchers, Jason Owen-Smith of the University of Michigan, and Jennifer McCormick of Stanford, and published in the April 2006 issue of Nature Biotechnology. The two clearly set out to prove the claim that Americans were falling behind, and when their data showed otherwise (like this latest study, they found a sizeable American lead) they sought frantically to spin it. Through a series of comical contortions (including comparing American scientists alone to those of the entire rest of the world combined, rather than those in individual countries) they managed to crunch their numbers to show that America’s lead is declining. If you squint just right and look sideways at the numbers, such twisted analysis just might let you hold on to the 'falling behind' narrative. And indeed, after showing a sizeable American lead, Owen-Smith and McCormick, without a hint of irony, wrote: 'The United States is falling behind in the international race to make fundamental discoveries in hES cell–related fields.'

    "Unlike the more recent German study, Owen-Smith and McCormick declined to make their full data public (perhaps fearing it would be used as ammunition by supporters of the Bush policy), so it was hard to tell exactly what contortions they engaged in. But the authors of this latest study figured it out. They note that their data does not agree with the previous study’s claim that America’s lead is declining, pointing out that even if you just count papers published in 2004 or 2005 alone, Americans still published roughly 40% of all embryonic-stem-cell studies. 'These divergent findings,' the German group writes, 'are probably due to the fact that international collaborations of U.S. groups have been marked as ‘collaborative research’ by Owen-Smith and McCormick.' In other words, the previous study excluded from the American count publications on which even one researcher was from a foreign lab, and so arrived at an artificially low number.

    "This latest paper — which, not surprisingly, has received essentially no press coverage — simply and decisively disproves a critical contention of opponents of the Bush policy. But it is important to be clear about exactly what that means."

    I tried to link to the paper so that anyone can see for themselves that these ideologues spun the data...but the nice people at NATURE require a fee....nice freedom of information.

    Oh Honeydew...you so robotically spew out the radical left's death speech. Cures for diabetes, Parkinsons Disease, ALS, MS, spinal cord injuries, at so many more will be made just as soon as they would have been with the funding vetoed by our fine President. Adult Stemn cells have been so effective that investors are running to fund this private research while Embryonic Stem Cells are still wallowing in the petri-dish and results are limited in LAB RATS!

    Bunsen, you lie.

    Scare those poor people out there sufferring with illness...that's a good tactic....that's what got Claire McCaskell elected and we all know successful manipulation of the electorate is always used again.

    The distortions of the pro-death left really put a shadow over my Christmas...I really wish Professor Honeydew had not decided to go down that dark road. The road to subjugation of human dignity for the benefit of science....A "Brave New World," indeed.

    I may have to open up that other bottle of Bailey's.

    ...and ram another spike of stolen fentanyl into your wispy arm, right cee?

    Merry Christmas to you too, Sir Loin of Milquetoast....I know you endorse the same type of repressive world of which the professor dreams...but I have hope for some kind of Christmas miracle.

    Boy, for an unusually long post, puck really says nothing at all. Except to show his extremely low standards: apparently he thinks that reading "Culture Warrior" and "Olby's book" give him some scholarly bragging rights.

    Why don't you people stop fetishizing the personalities and start trying to evaluate the arguments themselves?

    Oh that's right - your side loses when you do that.

    Christmas miracle? Perhaps the vineyard's owner will return? What will happen to the tenants of the tower then, I wonder?

    "Woe to ye, Scribes and Pharisees! for ye devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayer: therefore ye shall recieve the greater damnation."

    Eat brimstone, Free-Market Fundies. Merry Christmas.

    I guess I should issue a "thanks" to Mike for agreeing I had legitimate reasons to dislike Olbermann.

    And it's BS to say that America is sick of Republicans. Look at the polls. They indicate that Americans are sick of the Democrats too. In short, they are sick of politicans putting themselves first and not the country's best interests first. And that should serve as a warning to the Dems that if they don't get it right in the next two years, they'll get trounced in 2008. 2006 wasn't an embrace of the Democratic party as much as it was a rejection of the Republican party. While you people may think that it's some sort of wholesale endorsement for every lefty, loon idea it wasn't. And now the pressure is on. It's been my experience from watching you idiots for awhile now that you fold when the pressure is on. So let's just see what you do with the country in the next two years. Remember: America is watching and they're already pissed at you too.

    Janet: My point was that in response to the documentary about the horrors our troops have been put in by this administration, your response was on my WRITING STYLE.

    How you can concentrate on a writing style instead of the MAIN IDEA of my post,reveals your lack of soul and heart for our troops and puts you in the enabler category for this administration that is responsible for the pain and suffering that they are going through.

    Hockey Puck : "Oh and I think the New York Times is getting around to reviewing Culture Warrior. Gee how fair and balanced will that be? I ain't holding my breath! Will they talk about bulk sales?"

    No, the "paper of record in this country " will review the contents of the book on its merits.

    President Dwight D. Eisenhower sent the first U.S. military and civilian advisers to Vietnam in 1955.

    Anon, I believe Truman gave financial aid beginning '50 or '51 to the French who withdrew in '53 or '54. After they withdrew Eisenhower continued the financial aid and added 300 or 400 non combatant advisors to the South Vietnamese. The first troops, 500 or 600, were sent by JFK in 1961. I don't think JFK sent more than 3,000 or 4,000 troops total, but he was the first American president to send troops that engaged in combat with the North Vietnamese.

    Its not a broad point, but neither is it a fine point. JFK sent the first combat troops to Vietnam following a decade of assistance by two prior presidents that did not involve combat troops.

    Johnson seems to have either followed JFK's lead or stepped out boldly on his own to move out from under JFK's shadow. I've heard it argued both ways. I, personally, think it is immaterial to the broader question.

    It is material to the question of JFK's performance as a president. I never noticed Camelot where I lived. But I approved of his tax policy and also containing Communism wherever it raised its ugly head.

    On the flip side, many who worship him were anti Vietnam and anti anti communist. Go figure.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Anon, my fellow posters have imbued me with the Christmas spirit. It is oozing from my moniter.

    I will be blunt. I considered your post either a drunken maudlin outburst or a phony put up job.

    I don't make my political or public decisions based on either drunken outbursts or overblown appeals to emotion as in your first paragraph. And I am not impressed by your dramatic day dream brought to life in your second paragraph.

    In short, you have neither moved me nor persuaded me of anything except that which I stated above.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet, even when they win elections they fairly hum with a sense of alienation!

    There aren't enough Christmas cookies in the world... :D

    Speaking of free-market capitalists... it seems the fodder of hell for Sir Loin are putting their money in adult stem cell research...where the payoffs are coming.

    While there are several European countries... Germany included... which share the evil--- religio-captalist?... (wonder how one is both a venture capitalist eager to make money AND a religious fanatic who puts dogma before all...but I digress...)take on limitations on ESC research... a British organization attempting to raise money for both, sez it knows where the action is.

    Here you go, Cee.

    http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901061009-1539177,00.html

    Typical Mike, drunk and incoherent at 5:36 AM on a weekend morning...running to his computer to personally insult anyone who sees Olbermann for the liar he is.

    Given your spelling and grammar errors in the past Mike, I wouldn't be mocking anyone in that regard if I was you.

    Cee, my bad I think. In response to jt I mentioned that I thought he and I had traded a few posts about name calling re the MJF ad.

    Jt responded and we both supplied copies to each other re our relative positions on MJF's ad and stem cell research.

    I was greatly ammused that the 'proof' cited was research CONDUCTED by that venerable institution, the CENTRAL LIBRARY OF JULICH that catalogued the article and provides links to researchers.

    What a joke. The per capita figures used were in the fifth paragraph of an eight paragraph paper and the only analysis that showed US research falling behind. Sloppy cut and paste job or lying by cherry picking to the extreme?

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    When I was growing up as a military dependent in the 60's. I accepted hook, line, and sinker my father's belief that we were fighting "Communist aggression" in Vietnam. It was called the "Dominoe theory". If we 'let' one 'dominoe' fall, the others would all topple as well.

    Later, long after joining the military myself, I learned that my father's beliefs were flawed, as smart a man as he was. These days, I see many young people parroting those same kind of arguments about the dangers of "Islamo-Facism" and how we can't 'let' em win anything. In a sense, it's the same old "Dominoe Theory" argument repackaged to fit today's realities.

    I was surprised at your arguments that we were fighting Communist aggression in Vietnam and that it wasn't a "civil war". Since you seem pretty smart, I didn't think you had fallen for that one. I doubt if Ho Chi Min ever thought of himself as an aggressor in his own country, or as a cog in a larger plan for worldwide Communist control.

    All of your subsequent arguments about this seemed to focus on semantics as to who put us in Vietnam and when. Yes Kennedy sent combat troops in limited numbers who were supposed to be playing 'advisory' roles, and Johnson later escalated those numbers exponentially....and yes, they were both Democrats!

    The larger point is that entering Vietnam in a combat role was a mistake that should have taught us a lesson about using American combat troops. I thought most Americans had learned that lesson well. Iraq proved that wrong! Too many forgot the lesson, never learned the lesson, or learned the wrong lesson.

    I have never heard anyone present a coherent, reasoned argument for us going into Iraq, or trying to occupy and control it after we did.

    Neither has anyone on the right presented a coherent argument for continuing to defend and listen to these same Neocons who got us into this mess in the first place. Every prediction they made regarding Iraq has turned out to be wrong, and yet many still stubbornly continue to defend them and listen to these people despite all that has happened. It's time to listen to someone else.

    We simply don't know what is going to happen in Iraq...whether we stay, or whether we leave.
    I firmly believe we now are paying the price for having not learned the right lesons from history!

    Hey RedState:

    Why don't you ever actually SAY something....instead of just using this site to try to insult me personally?

    An ignorant reactionary like you can't insult me!

    Mike, who did what, when, where and how is not semantics. They're called facts. We are both right re the nomenclature for the Vietnam war.

    It had elements of a civil war and a war of aggression from the ChiComs and Russians. The Dominoe Theory was flawed, but was still applicable to one degree or another.

    And, I don't consider the war a total defeat for us, especially with hindsight. It sure as hell occupied them and consumed time, energy and resources. As the late 80's and 90's proved they were not the giant we thought they were and eventually they fell for lack of resources.

    Mike, what happened happened. Countries did not topple one after the other. But, would it absolutely never have happened under any circumstances if the US, starting with Truman in 1950 and ending with Nixon in 1973 had not engaged them so strongly. I believe under those circumstances we very likely would have seen a domino effect and depending on how things played out engaged them somewhere at some point and perhaps at greater cost.

    As for the statement I have never had a coherent argument from the right, you got one, perhaps two from me that I assumed you never read. You might not agree with me but I'm sure that even you would have to admit that at least I am coherent and make every effort to present my arguments in a logical sequence.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "I firmly believe we now are paying the price for having not learned the right lesons from history!"

    Well, we seem to know what the wrong lessons are--don't mess in civil wars (even when they're funded by an authoriatrian socialist superpower intent on spreading its power via revolution). Afterall, of course we've incited the islamic fundamentalists against us by playing in their back yard, but goodness knows we sure over-reacted to the soviets in Central America.

    It's always nice to see these gems of wisdom from those who term Iraq war supporters as being armchair generals.

    But then one is damned if you do and damned if you don't with one's opponents whether it's giving money and arms to the anti-soviet side in Afghanistan or later givng money to the Taliban or in Sudan in order to try and influence its policy.

    Take them (and Mike...) with a grain of salt...and some Bailey's.

    Yes Grammie, I would never call any of your arguments incoherent...we just disagree on some things.

    You are one of the few on this site who actually seem to want to use it to engage in meaningfull discussions about REAL issues. Things like Olbermann's book sales are not an issue to anyone but Olbermann in my opinion.


    So many seem to just want to demean and insult the other side into submission.

    "Mike, what happened happened. Countries did not topple one after the other. But, would it absolutely never have happened under any circumstances if the US, starting with Truman in 1950 and ending with Nixon in 1973 had not engaged them so strongly. I believe under those circumstances we very likely would have seen a domino effect and depending on how things played out engaged them somewhere at some point and perhaps at greater cost."


    Well, Grammie, this spurious claim that one can lose a war but win it is not uncommon throughout history. While sometimes a claim with some merit; can it ever be proven?

    You might just as validly ask if the entire second half of the cold war could have been avoided had Truman and Eisenhower heeded the many open overtures made by Ho Chi Minh to essentialy become a self-determined US client, in many regards, following WWII (during which he bore the title "OSS Agent 19" - see "Why Vietnam" by Archimedes Patti). The 1945 Vietnamese Declaration of Independence bore homage bordering on plagarism to the eponimous US founding document, and Ho offered the use of Cam Ran Bay to the US as a naval base several times between 1945 and 1950. But DeGaulle countered this move toward Vietnamese self-determination by threatening to move France into the orbit of the USSR if we acknowledged the Viet Minh.

    So to placate the whiny French we entered an oppressive decades-long war against an indgenous nantionalist movement to reclaim a deep and honorable history. Prior to Diem Bien Phu we were paying 80% of the French costs to reclaim their colony - financing a war against a group of peole who had fought the imperial japanese and Vichy French literally at our sides during the world war.

    The entire war was a tragedy, and should never have been entered into. Its only products were regional instability, mass murder, and the weakening of America.

    Well, I'm pleased that we killed the top Taliban commander Mullah Akhtar Mohammad Osmani today, as well as the UN unaminously voting for sanctions against Iran. Score a few fo the good guys...

    Unlike people like Mike, who cheer for any good news against the US to add to his tiresome, laundry list of complaints on this board at 5:30 in the morning, I'm haven't given up on our nation's forgein policy yet. It's easy to whine, and its in the media's nature to focus on the negative in general (after all, positive news doesn't sell well on cable news), but we need to acknowledge positive events when they occur as well.

    RedState, thanks for actually SAYING something!

    I cheer those things as well. You won't find where I have said anything against the Afghanistan War, or our involvement in it. All of my complaints have strictly referenced Iraq.

    Even in Iraq, which I believed was a mistake from the beginning, I NEVER cheered for us to fail, no matter how you people want to spin it. I was hoping to be proven wrong the whole time.

    My fear now is that if we don't let go of the Iraq fantasy and redouble the Afghanistan effort, we might lose both!

    I sgree, they never report the good sides of news, like the good life and peace in some part of Iraq. They only focus what is happending in the war zone at Bagdad. We need to know the whole picture, not even the netowrks will report the good sides of Iraq. They are promoting how evil this administartion is. Certainly, every single election, they will pick a president for us.

    Hmmm; It's the old "they only report the bad news" talking point. You're only about 1 year behind the curve on that one.

    It's not a talking point. When was the last time you heard about bad news in northern or southern Iraq? Basra, maybe, once in a while (it is the second largest city), but overall the country is stable outside of Baghdad. Once we send stabilize the capital by sending in more troops, there really isn't much to do that the Iraqis couldn't handle with us prividing support from bases. I'm optimstic for Iraq's future in 2007.

    There was a guest once said on Chris Matthews show, "without a civil war, a country won't be united", and Christ Matthews agreed and said we did, this county. And I agree. This country hsd gone through a lot gets to today.

    So the country is stable in Anbar Province (outside Baghdad)?

    So how come the discussion always gets steered towards Iraq and away from the discussion at hand: why Keith Olbermann is a liar, a hypocrite, an actor, etc?

    KAF

    Because that subject is utterly vacuous and innane.


    Krazy Keith calls Meltdown a "news show"
    Even Santa would laugh "ho, ho, ho"
    Keith hasn't been nice
    Just like Andrew "Dice"
    Obscurity is where he will go

    Talk about KO AGAIN?

    What can possibly be said that hasn't already been said 40,000 times? Either you like him or you don't. It's not that important! Iraq IS!

    Anon, if this "What can possibly be said that hasn't already been said 40,000 times? Either you like him or you don't." expresses your true feelings, why would you make the 40,001 comment!

    Make up your mind. Ignore it or join in the debate.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    But this website isn't called "Iraqwatch", it's called Olbermannwatch. It's not set up to debate the war or the Bush administration. It's set up to debate the merits of one Keith Olbermann. So since you're so unwilling to do that does this mean dear Anonymous that you have conceeded Olby is a fake, a fraud, a phony, biased beyond belief, hypocritical, arrogant, egotistical, etc?

    Yes, KAF, this is Olbermannwatch. But, considering this site was created in large part because of Olbermann's coverage of the War in Iraq and the War on Terror... including the President's bungled job handling both... Iraq is very relevant on this site. Especially considering most everything KO's reported about said topics have been correct... and the GOP and Bushie have been wrong, wrong and wrong again.

    KAF: I don't care! It's an opinion, and IT'S NOT THAT IMPORTANT! Every now and then, an interesting debate actually does occur on this site about REAL issues. That is exactly what you are complaining about, but that is the only reason I check in here occasionally.

    No Olbermann's reporting hasn't been correct, it's been biased and one-sided. And there are many sites to debate Iraq, why must the subject always abandon Olby and move on to Iraq? You know not all of us suppported the war, not all of us support Bush, but I do NOT support or like or think Olbermann is a good journalist and that's why I come to this site. And I get a little tired of seeing threads hijacked with your never-ending Iraq discussions. That's been done to death too you know. the truth is that you can't or won't admit Olbermann's an egotistical ass so you bring up the war to take the heat off of his lies and distortions. It's tiresome.

    To all the Olbermann detractors: It seems to me that you believe that if you can just expose KO as less than honorable, then you think you will in effect discredit all that he has spoken out against regarding the war and this failed Right Wing government. Otherwise, this obsession with this guy on cable TV makes no sense at all.

    It's nothing more than the old "kill the messager and you then kill the message".

    KAF:

    You say your not Right Wing and you just don't like hime posing as a journalist!

    So why can't you just live and let live. You don't have to watch him! What is this compelling drive to go after someone you don't like? In the unlikely event that you could somehow succeed with the apparent mission of this site (To destroy KO), what right do you think you have to deprive those who do want to watch and listen to him of their ability to do so?

    So how many times can YOU anonymous and your little buddies repeat Iraq is all Bush's fault (never mind the dems voted for it), and that Bush sucks? You come here and post that crap over and over and over again on a board you KNOW is set up to discuss OLBERMANN, not Bush, not the GOP. And you get pissy with me for asking you why you have to hijack every thread with the same thing over and over again and tell me blithley that "Olbermann has been discussed". Yeah, like the war hasn't, like Bush hasn't.

    And bite me bubbajim. I'm a democrat. I just can't stand Olbermann, he's a joke and represents everything that is wrong with tv news today.

    And what is MY compelling desire to go after someone I don't like? I don't know, why don't you tell me what motivates you to bash Bush? Surely you must have some insight. Oh wait, you're an Olbyloon. Of course you can't see your own hypocritical actions at work. Just like you can't admit he's biased, hypocritical, egotistical, and runs the most slanted news hour on television, and with Fox News in the mix, that's really saying something. You don't have to post here you know if you don't like me bashing your idol. But this is NOT your board to run and it's a little tiresome seeing your ilk turn every single good discussion into a Bush/Iraq bash marathon. Go back to DU or to Kos where you belong. Or did they get tired of your kindergarten level arguments too?

    Anon, unlike the Great Orange One, R W Cox allows everyone to express their opinions and argue their position right, wrong or indifferent.

    And you abuse this example of democracy in practice to complain that your opinion is the one true one and this blog should conform to your fantasies.

    Meanwhile, you are up to the 40,007th post re Orangeman.

    If you wish to worship at KO's feet this is not the place.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie


    Olbermann is a propaganda artist. He uses techniques perfected by Nazis and Communists to keep repeating day in and day out the same thing.

    KAF:

    "what motivates me to bash Bush"? Easy, Bush is supposed to be OUR President. Bush is screwing up OUR country! What is Olbermann screwing up?

    He's NOT my idol! I don't CARE if you bash Olbermann! I just don't know what motivates this OBSESSION to bash Olbermann? If just one of you would answer that question, instead of skirting around it, I'd quit asking it.

    I guess I should just let it go. After all, if I ever motivate someone to go through all the trouble to start a Web site for the exclusive purpose of bashing me, I will have made it big, and then that'll be proof that I'm doing something right.

    Red Wolf:

    So does your government!

    Keith Olbermann Receives a Death Threat, and the New York Post Thinks It's Pretty Darn Funny

    SOURCE - http://www.rawstory.com/showoutarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pastdeadline.com%2Fclueless_in_new_york%2Findex.html


    Please check the article and other comments if you haven't heard, what I want to know is...

    HOW DID FOX NEWS KNOW??? HOW COME FOX NEWS WERE THE ONLY REPORTERS THERE???

    In all the hubub about the sickly snarkiness, which was disgusting, I think focusing on the investigation and the pricks who ran and vetted the story could be a good lead, at least until it leads to more or is a confirmed dead-end. The only reason Bush is lasting this long is that the White House is in serious cahoots with the right-wing media, and that could mean threatening Keith (or even killing him, as if that's a surprise for these guys) and sending their own journalist out to break the story and help spin the initial response.

    This forces the much of the mainstream media to scramble to concoct their own weak set of "talking points" spinning their own weak lies and omissions that keep the public debate within a safe and polarized framework. They use or invent the barest of selectively edited and delivered "facts" with little history or context to prevent the public from understanding what's really happening and who's behind it. Then they endorse criticism that trains people to hate "people" just for being the horrible "people" who "weaken our resolve and endanger the troops" when they believe what they believe, and we have the uninformed calling the most informed "un-American" for trying to inform them.

    This fascist dumbing-down is eroding our natural optimism, fraternal trust and respect over time, leaving us vulnerable to the most confident and consistent "talking points" message from the right-wing media's "echo effect", the perfect fascist tool for controlling men and minds. Since having b-lls works, the narrow confines of every debate keep moving to the "right" while the "left" are given positions that are set up to lose, and kept from learning about things like "depleted uranium" that can destroy any right-wing arguments by proving that the U.S. military-industrial warlords don't give a silent damn about the "troops".

    This lack of knowledge forces many normal people to make stupid genocidal arguments, like "it was a mistake, but we're in Iraq and Afhganistan so we need to stay to finish the job", when we're not doing any sort of job they can begin to describe. Incidentally, we are doing almost nothing to give the Iraqi's and Afghani's any jobs either, or you'd hear government propagandists brag about it to help hide their other crimes.

    There is nothing good happening over there with both soldiers and civilians stuck in a meat-grinder of radiation sickness and death and unprotected by any press or public scrutiny, this is a war crime of Hitlerian calculations, and guys like Keith who have the charisma to make people realize it and wake up are in danger. We need to come out swinging, and remember that many of these guys are rich and hobknob with the elite, Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones even made "Sweet Neo-Con" a couple of years ago, and our artists and leaders know the score and know we're running out of time...


    New Eminem Track References Wire Tapping, Political Assassinations, and 9/11

    9/11 Blogger
    Friday, December 1, 2006

    Eminem - Public Enemy #1 - 2.4mb MP3

    DOWNLOAD Emp3 - http://www.prisonplanet.com/ arti...11206Eminem.htm


    Too many on the "right" are too fascist these days, and enjoy the thick-skulled bloodsport of taking any shot any time at any "liberal" or critic of Bush whether it's warranted or not, and whether it's objectively immoral or not, while high-fiving each other. Some are government agents paid handsomely to mess with us, and as pro's working off the same script they can be natural leaders in a world of confused people on blogs and message boards, not to mention other areas of greater influence.

    Their whole strategy is evil, and helps ensure that Karl Rovebots are too loyally brainwashed to see the immorality in lies, greed, torture, stealing elections, drowning New Orleans, sticking thousands in refugee-style FEMA camps, and murdering millions (especially with depleted uranium) around the world, among countless other crimes against God, Man, Philosophy, Common Sense, Cats, whatever. It's getting almost irreversably bad, and we need to take a stand against this insanity.

    Keith Olbermann is being seriously attacked because he's seriously attacking the right people, those who need to use violence to silence their critics because their critics are right. These are the same people who would destroy any leaders who can save us from their dystopian dream of endless "War on Terror" re-shaping our economies and societies, and weakening western countries until they're exploited like the Third World while ramping up the prison slave-labor war-machine. This is what we're facing, and Keith is a canary in a coalmine coughing up laundry detergent (for now)...

    Since well-before the well-documented COINTELPRO program was illegally launched againt black liberation movements, the elite have been using their tools in U.S. military and intelligence to destroy any chance of anyone inspiring us enough to wake up and see the blood-soaked lie the 20th Century has been, and if they killed John Lennon and dozens of others then Keith Olbermann wouldn't be a problem.

    However, when the brownshirts are taught to endorse "anthrax attacks" we have a bigger dilemma: a Bush/Cheney administration given no censure by the media, and given licence by their followers to attack their critics with "anthrax". With licence comes indulgence, and with indulgence comes the fun of everyone else joining in...


    "This new fascism is a bit different from the old fascism, eh? It doesn't quite have that old street-fighting quality to it, at least not yet, though when you see recent developments you can realize that might not be far off..."

    - Webster G. Tarpley
    - Journalist/Author/Historian


    Peace, (NOW!!!)
    BK

    "This fascist dumbing-down is eroding our natural optimism"

    What is this optimism you speak of? Surely you don't contend that the left are optimists? Hell just calling Bush a Fascist makes you both a pessimist and a dumbass. Not to mention the whole victimization attitude of the left. Nobody is ever responsible for his own actions in the left's world, especially if you make up a certain socio-economic template. Furthermore, your propensity to believe such Konspiracies involving the suppression of free speech is such utter bullshit and further proof of pessimism, it shows you for what you are, a freaking moonbat. Just ask the NYT if their speech is being suppressed.

    I know. I know. You read it in a blog, and in your twisted logic, it makes sense, so it must be true. This Tarpley moron is one of the leading dipshits that thinks 9/11 was a government conspiracy. Hell even Krazy Keith doesn't think that.

    Do not confuse skepticism for intelligence. And elaborate Konspiracies do not buttress this so-called skepticism. They only serve to show the purveyor of such crap as an absolute moron. Which would by extension show those who read and believe said crap, as something much worse, essentially the exact same as the Islamo-fascists that we are currently fighting. They are the insanely ignorant and are not afraid to act on their ignorance.

    War!!! Now!!!

    I don't think Crash knows what "fascism?" means. I don't think Crash knows what "logic" means. I don't think Crash knows what "war" means.

    Hold up there "Black Krisna". First of all, it wasn't Fox News that reported that, it was the NY Post. Secondly, a very disturbed individual has been arrested for it and charged for sending those letters to any number of people including Summer Redstone (who is a Republican), Jon Stewart, and others. There was no vast right-wing conspiracy involved there at all. Just a mentally ill person.

    And Anonymous, how exactly has Olbermann "made it big" when his ratings are so awful and his book tanked? Sure he gets a lot of free, fawning press but anyone can buy that with the right PR agent. I note that all those articles still haven't enabled him to beat O'Reilly in the ratings, ever, nor has he ever been able to put together an entire week where he came in second every night. Basically he has two good ratings nights a week: Mondays and Thursdays. I guess your definition of making it big must be a heck of a lot different than mine (or anyone else's).

    And you say you don't defend him? Ha!

    Black Krishna, I think the term delusional paranoia describes your post above quite nicely.

    Janet Hawlins
    AKA Grammie

    Sir Loin,
    I know what douchebag means, and you are a douchebag.

    The ease of which people use the word fascism to describe an entity with which they do not agree is starting to really get on my nerves. A similar conversation took place on another thread a couple of days ago.

    The more liberal bloggers always disavow any fascist tendencies in their applied world views, retreating to the intellectually bankrupt idea that only conservatives can be fascists. Well, I understand many have been indoctrinated with that lie from our education system since WWII, as the postmodernists and humanists rationalized away the deadly results of secular philosophy lying all around the Pacific rim, Europe and Asia.

    Black Krishna's labeling is fine, it is her right to hold any opinion. I just wish more rational and logical thought would be used.

    Cee, they also get all tied up in knots spitting and sputtering across the monitor if one uses the term Islamofascist.

    That must say something. Could it be that they perceive their fellow americans who commit the ultimate sin of disagreeing with them as far more dangerous and despicable than those who have not only vowed to kill them and us all and take every oportunity to do so.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    - Olbermann is a propaganda machine for the "this war is insane crowd". George Bush is a propaganda machine for the Neocon crowd. Which one gets more coverage? which one is more dangerous?

    Which one is more dangerous? Simple. Olbermann. He's posing as an impartial journalist when he is anything but. Bush is just being your typical, lying self-serving politican. And that is what politicos do: lie. Journalists aren't supposed to.

    Janet:

    No credible critic has claimed or even implied that those that disagree with them are "far more dangerous and despicable" than the so called IslamoFascists! That is especially true when applied to the word 'despicable'. I think we would agree that the ultimate in despicable is probably dedicating oneself to killing other people, especially if those they want to kill are non-combatants.

    That said, we strongly believe that sometimes the cure is worse than the disease, and that the wrong reaction can be worse than no reaction at all.

    In my opinion, this disgreement lies strictly in the application of the cure. Since undertaking the ill fated decision to invade and occupy Iraq, and the subsequent monumental mistakes in the execution of that decision, we have been guilty of the wrong reactions.

    In my view, that IS the disagreement! We shouldn't make it more than it is.

    KAF:

    I guess I've just never been able to accept the conventional wisdom that it is OK, or forgivable for a politician to lie. However, I would agree that it's not OK for a Journalist to lie either.

    KAF: If Bush is indeed a "typical, lying, self-serving politician," why not permit Keith to call it like it is?

    But I suppose that makes him "dangerous."

    KAF: If Bush is indeed a "typical, lying, self-serving politician," why not permit Keith to call it like it is?

    But I suppose that makes him "dangerous."

    KAF: If Bush is indeed a "typical, lying, self-serving politician," why not permit Keith to call it like it is?

    I suppose that makes him "dangerous."

    I think I got it the 3rd time, Lauren.

    KAF: If Bush is indeed a "typical, lying, self-serving politician," why not permit Keith to call it like it is?

    I suppose that makes him "dangerous."

    Sorry about that--my computer and the commenting system weren't cooperating. :/

    I guess I've just never been able to accept the convention that it is okay for a politician to lie.

    Unless in Mike's world it's somebody like Alan Hevesi, then the politico can rip off all he wants. Mike will still vote for him.

    Just like book sales and cable ratings are bogus unless his guy is in the lead.

    Ill fated decision to invade

    Gee Mike playing armchair quaterback again? Well I guess it is Sunday. If only the whole world would have listen to Mike, he knew everything that was going to happen back then.

    I guess I've just never been able to accept the convention that it is okay for a politician to lie.

    Unless in Mike's world it's somebody like Alan Hevesi, then the politico can rip off all he wants. Mike will still vote for him.

    Just like book sales and cable ratings are bogus unless his guy is in the lead.

    Ill fated decision to invade

    Gee Mike playing armchair quaterback again? Well I guess it is Sunday. If only the whole world would have listen to Mike, he knew everything that was going to happen back then.

    Both politicians and journalists have the same motive, one get elected and the other one get more ratings. They both will say what you want to hear in a heart beat. Good people cannot be politicians, like Colin Powell, John McCain, etc. I do not know what political science professors teach at school, maybe teach their students how to lie, but definitetly not at the School of Journalism, which Keith did not go to, student were taught to report stories, to report facts.

    If I offend any political science students and professors, I apologize that it is not my intention.

    Gee Puck, who do you think you are to decide who "I would vote for"? Thats the problem with some of you people....you think you've got a window into the brain of anyone you disagree with.

    You don't have a clue who "I would vote for", or why!

    Fot the hundreth time, I don't give a damn about KO's book sales. I do hope his TV ratings stay good enough to keep him on the air...but I don't care whether he beats O'Reilly or not! But according to you, I'm just a liar.

    I may be playing "armchair quaterback", but you're playing the denial game. Trouble is, This is NOT a 'game'!

    You continue to defend a President who stands there, stamps his feet, snorts and huffs in denial while getting hundreds, and possibly thousands more young Americans killed in the process of accomplishing exactly nothing.

    The above post was from Mike.

    Neither politicos or journalists win any honesty, integrity, or truthworthiness awards from me. Still there are some who are more deplorable than others and yes, BushCo and KeithCo are two of the worst offenders. I just don't expect any more from politicians. I do somehow out of journalists, especially when said journalist is being praised for "saving democracy" and pretending NOT to be biased in interviews. I'd respect him more if he'd just be honest about his tilting a la O'Reilly. Once upon a time I despised all things Fox. Olbermann's lies have made me realize that at least they are honest about what they do and who they root for. That's more than you can say for Olbermann who doesn't have the stones to admit it.

    Pow!! Lauren scores KO (that's "knockout"; not "Keith Olberman") on KAF! That NEEDED to be posted four times!

    Yes, its all about the partisanship - KAF knows Bush is a fraud and worse, but sticks with his cult due to whatever sociological flaw it is that makes people into uncritical sheep.

    Mike, you have stated exactly my approach to the problem. We agree on the end objective. We disagree on the method to achieve that goal.

    If credible were the criteria than I assume you would disassociate yourself from the vast majority, if not all, posters on this blog on your side of the aisle. And you would also include many elected democrats and party officials.

    Even without a mention of Islamofascist it is a constant refrain. Reichwing, uberbush, Christonazi, Hitlerian, fascist etc. And by implication you need look no farther than Durbin and KO.

    And, Mike, I know I have seen you back up and agree with those who make it part of their daily repitoire.

    As Cee said, it gets tiresome. Mike, I didn't pull my observation out of the air. People who have never said a deragotory word about terrorists, and answer most comments by me with an accusation of being a fascist become hysterical at my use of the term Islamofascist. And there is always somewhere in the litany of why GWB, his administration and I are evil, inbred, inhuman, racist fascist criminals.

    As Cee said, it gets tiresome.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie


    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Easy there Tender Vittles. The ability to see faults in those with whom you support doesn't make you a sheep, it makes you objective. On the other hand, people like you do nothing but judge and attribute false motives to those with whom you disagree. You assume Bush's motives couldn't possibly be that he really believes he is trying to spread freedom and protect the country, and people like me realize that while his approach is seriously flawed, we don't consider him the fascist anti-christ like you and Olbermann. So keep screaming and looking down your metaphorical nose at those with whom you disagree, I hope it does some good to that sensitive ego. I guess your just a glass half-full guy.

    Lauren, is it your contention that critisizing KO is tantamount to shutting him up.

    Now, THAT is dangerous.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    After posting, refresh, cancel, go back one page and refresh again. That works for me.

    Merry Christmas, Keith Olbermann!

    Beef it's evident reading comprehension isn't a subject you excelled at in school, if you went to school that is. I'm a liberal democrat. Here, let me repeat that for you in terms you will understand: I didn't vote for Bush. I can't stand him. I just don't expect any better out of any politican. And that goes for whatever side of the aisle they're from. That's not a business for honest men (or women).

    Journalism should be different. And it galls me no end to see Olbermann try to sell himself as Mr. Trustworthy & full of integrity when what he is full of is a big ole' heaping dose of BS! And ego. I guess P.T. Barnum was right and Olbermann fans prove it every single day.

    And anonymous? It's more (and worse) than Beef and company doing "nothing but judge and attribute false motives to those with whom you disagree.", they do the same with those they agree, attributing false qualities to people they agree with as well.

    They truly believe their Democratic politicans wouldn't lie to them and they aren't the same as the GOP ones. Wrong. They voted for this war. They could have stood up as Wellstone did and say NO but they didn't. They didn't have the stones to. They were afraid it would cost them votes later, and it did, but not in the way they thought. If they were what Beef & company thought they were, they would have been screaming from the rooftops of the Capitol building in protest but nope, there they were, cheerleading away. And corruption? It's both sides, not just the GOP.

    And it's why Beef & Co. can't see Olbermann for what he really is either. Instead they give him their wholehearted endorsement, and protect and defend him no matter how stupid something he does is (FanGate? NaziSalute Gate? $4 million a year in salary--just ignore it all!) Oh sure, they can see all the faults of Fox News, etc but can they see how very much like O'Reilly that KO is? Nope. I believe the Bible had something to say about none so blind as those that refused to see. Beef and his buddies are living proof that particular Bible verse is 100% true.

    KAF said, "They could have stood up as Wellstone did and say NO (to the war) but they didn't. They didn't have the stones to. They were afraid it would cost them votes later.

    - You're absolutely right. The Dems were spineless. But, I'll take spineless over incompetent.

    - And as an aside... what happened to those who voted, or for that matter just talked agianst the war three years ago? They were branded unpatriotic and terrorist supporters by the Radical Right. Lawmakers were terrified to vote against the war. So, spineless - yes. But, the dems still aren't the one who botched the war. They didn't botch worldwide support after 9-11. They did't lie to the American people at every turn.

    - You say they could have done all this IF they were in power. But, they weren't. Bush and the republicans were. There is no deflection of that blame. It lies soley with the adminstration and the republicans.

    Wrong James. They were grossly incompetent by their refusal to find their spines and stand up to Bush and the war. They were more concerned with getting reelected than they were the lives of American soldiers who would be sent to fight a battle with not enough troops and no clear exit strategy. And what mattered most to them? Staying in power. So they said nothing. Incompetent isn't good but you know what? I consider incompetence to include being chicken-shit and the Dems were. I say that I'm a Liberal Democrat but the truth is that I don't know what I am anymore. Disillusioned probably describes it the best. I don't trust either party. Conyers was promising impeachment for Bush prior to the election. All of a sudden we win the House & Senate and he's backed off of that promise like the calculating politician he truly is. How many people do you think blindly voted for the Dems believing impeachment hearings would result if they were in power and who are slowly becoming disillusioned by the realization that they lie just as freely and willingly as the GOP does? Here's a Christmas bit of advice to you all as a gift of sorts: Trust no politician. And while you're at it? Don't trust journalists either. You think Olbermann cares about what's going on in this country? Do you think he really believes what he's saying? Nope, it was all part of a calculated effort on his part to boost his ratings, sell his books and ask for a $3 million pay raise. And we were dumb enough to believe he believed. Don't put your faith and trust in anyone. Of this world as it is, you can never be cynical enough.

    KAF said, "They (democrats) were more concerned with getting reelected than they were the lives of American soldiers who would be sent to fight a battle with not enough troops and no clear exit strategy. "

    So, let me get this right... you're blaming the democrats for President Bush's failure to send enough troops... and his lack of a clear exit strategy??? Wow. You are truly lost.


    As for everything else you ranted on about, deflecting the issue... I don't trust many politicians. But, I trust the ones who plunged us into a war and botched less than I trust the one's who didn't.

    As for not trusting journalists... I am one, so I have first hand knowledge on that issue. I doubt you have the same insight.


    But, again, I'm baffled. You're blamming the dems for the president's decision to not send enough troops and not having a clear exit strategy. His decicions... and you're blaming the party that wasn't in power the time. Just amazing.

    James says he has first hand knowledge on that issue of not trusting journalists.

    Well okay there Bob Woodward, care to enlighten us? Or is this just another piece of crap thrown out by just another wacko.

    Plus once again it looks like we have another arm chair quarterback who knew that the war was a mistake. Why when did we come to that conclusion? Before the war? At the start? In the middle? Last week?

    Gee would it come as a big surprise if James told us that he doesn't trust anybody at Fox News or who ever the Mothership at Media Matters has told him not to trust? And watch all the politicians he doesn't trust just happen to be Republican. But James will throw in Joe Liberman just to show he's fair and balanced.

    Tell us James you're a know it all like Mike. What is the exit strategy or didn't you get that far at Tin foil hat class?

    So James you're a journalist? Well I guess writing for you're High School paper does count. Oh by the way are we suppose to be impressed just because you stated you're a journalist? Gee what our you doing here? Shouldn't you be getting the bull dog edition ready?

    It's funny somebody, who had the name of Mike came on here a month ago and put (a veteran) next to his name. And I guess he thought that by just putting that next to his name we were all suppose to shut up and believe whatever he said no questions asked. Whatever happen to that guy?

    A bunch of know it alls that know everything before it happens and then they have all the answers. WOW! If they are that psychic how come they don't come up with the winning numbers next time the lottery gets to 200 million?

    KFA I like you! I don't have a problem with anybody that questions everything. That is very healthy. Whatever thought you fall down on you can say you looked at everything and made the decision on you're own. Congratulations! You've busted out of the sheep pen! You are now an independent!

    KFA if you're looking to impeach Bush with Conyers. Don't be off the wall because it's not first up. The Dems are notorious poll and focus group takers. It will hurt then if they were to start this now, pour millions into these trials. And the war not going anywhere and more soldiers dying. Most polls do show Americans are fed up with this. But most people want us to Win It! Insted of turning tail and pulling out. Going after Bush can happen at any time, but I think now is not the time. The dems have to walk a tightrope in 2007. If the war gos nowhere, and the economy starts to head south. Well heck you could end up with The Republicans back in charge of both houses and a Democrat President. Who Knows?

    Olby love him or hate him. But if anybody doesn't think he's not in this for his sell out self. Well you're stuck in the sheep pen. It as simple as what I wrote a day or two ago. O'Reilly and Olby put out books about the same time. O'Reilly doing book signings, talk shows, going over to Iraq with books and Factor gear. Olby, as far as I know did not do one book signing. I'm sure there would be one Barnes and Noble around his apartment he could walk to?

    O'Reilly flat out promoted better, and the best the Tin Foil Hat crowd can say is? It was bulk buying! Or numbers don't mean anything. How bankrupt is that argument? If Olby put out a great book, it would have out sold O'Reilly by a mile!

    If Olby was all that on cable, he wouldn't have to worry about the 4 million. He'd be doing the C.B.S. evening news at 10 million per.

    Again, congrats for breaking out. Now that you do think with a little more freedom may I suggest. Lionel on www.wor710.com He's liberal, hates Bush with a passion! But doesn't do the same drumbeat like Olby. And also Jerry Doyle on K.N.E.W. Jerry is an independent conservative who's favorite line is Question Everything! He will talk about things that don't seem right with the Republicans.

    But you have to admit with people like Mike and Dave guarding the Pen it's east to escape!

    Oh, sir loin of beef chuck. You and the rest of the tin foil hat crowd change the subject when you can't defend the topic at the top of the page!

    Which brings a great thought to mind. What if tin foil hat liberal rules were brought into major sports? Could you see it now? The Pittsburgh Steelers beating the Looney Libs at halftime 73-0 but now the libs get to change the rules and the score is switched! Or it doesn't matter! Yeah you guys make real sense!

    KFA before I go let me suggest a book since you read the Bible. Next time you're in Borders thumb through "As America Has Done To Israel" by John Mc Ternan. You'll think this guy is certified nuts or...........

    James asked, "But, again, I'm baffled. You're blamming the dems for the president's decision to not send enough troops and not having a clear exit strategy. His decicions... and you're blaming the party that wasn't in power the time. Just amazing."

    James, the Democrats KNEW we didn't have enough troops and a clear exit strategy. But instead of standing up and complaining about it LOUDLY, they kept their mouths shut until the polls began to turn around and show the American people weren't happy about the war and only THEN did they begin to complain about the lack of an exit strategy and the lack of troop numbers. Puck's right, the Dems depend way too heavily on focus groups and polls. They bend whatever way the wind blows them. NO SPINES! They were all scared to death they'd be torn apart in the media and that their own constituants would turn against them so they took the route that was easier for them, even knowing what they knew because being re-elected was more important to them than standing on principle. So yes, I'm blaming them too. Don't get me wrong, the Republicans are also poll whores. My question is how you can give them a giant hall pass on this?

    I guess it's the same kind of pretzel logic that allows you to give Olbermann a pass when he does exactly what O'Reilly does, just from the liberal view because he spouts what you want to hear. Sorry but he earns no free pass from me. He's pandering to his perceived audience just the way that the Democrats pandered themselves to what they thought was the prevailing opinion at the time of this country's entry into war. I don't want to watch a news show with someone who is so cynically trying to court an audience so he can then demand a $4 million dollar a year salary. I want someone who will tell me the truth, even if it's not flattering to the Democrats (or the Republicans) and do it in an unbiased way, who is doing what he CLAIMS to do in every interview he gives. Then he might actually EARN that $4 million dollar year a salary he wants.

    Puck, I really don't know what to think about Israel. It's clear that they engage in behaviors that some consider terrorism. It's also clear that our support of their policies has cost us dearly in the Muslim world. But at the risk of sounding like Mike, I honestly don't know enough about the situation to opine on it.

    And nope, I never expected impeachment charges to be brought against Bush/Cheney. I knew the Conyers was using it to promote himself. Big surprise there. Well apparently it was to some who were taken in by him and the empty promises he and others offered up pre-election. I don't know whether to be disgusted, laugh, or cry when I see dismay amongst my fellow liberals at the failure of Pelosi & company to press full-steam ahead on this. Why can't they see they were being played?

    Anyway, there's where I find myself on this Christmas Eve. Moving to the realization that both parties are full of it and that a honest man/woman with integrity in DC is a rare commodity these days, as is finding a real journalist who is more interested in the news than he is in getting himself favorable press and hanging out at cocktail parties. Anyway, Merry Christmas everyone. And God bless us and this country as we try to find ourselves out of the bitterly divided country we find ourselves living in. Not until more people realize that neither party is either all good or all bad, I fear it will remain in deep trouble.

    No Puck, you're one of the few "know it alls" on this site....You can't make a simple post without including at least 10 put downs...a sure sign of a loser! Is this how you deal with people one on one in public...with put downs? I'm pleased that you're my opposite, because I sure wouldn't want to be like you!

    And yes, I'm that same veteran you were just referring to, and to your consternation, I'm still here, but rarely ever mentioning the fact that I'm a veteran!

    That said, am I supposed to be ashamed of the fact that I'm a veteran? Am I supposed to keep it a secret just to keep losers like you from feeling inadequate? Truth is truth and I never mentioned it to imply any kind of superiority to anyone, but am I supposed to pretend it never happened? Believe it or not, it DOES give you a little perspective you can't get any other way.

    MERRY CHRISTMAS to everyone who doesn't run around with a chip on his shoulder, like Puck!

    What the heck, Merry Christmas to Puck too!

    KAF:

    I think MOST people realize that neither party is all good or all bad. Polls show that very clearly.

    I also think it's a little early to judge the Democrats, or how they're going to do. The Democratic Congress isn't even in session yet.

    I fully agree that too many Democrats were spineless in the runup to the war, and during the subsequent mismanagement. There WERE some who showed some backbone....why not promote them? They're all we've got.

    Why am I not praising those who did stand up and protest? Because Paul Wellstone is dead.

    And I think it's time to go ahead and call those (Conyers) who made promises and has already reneged on them. His website was promising impeachement before the elections. It's been changed now and makes no mention of impeachment. Let's call HIM on that. And why isn't Keith all over his butt for being a hypocrite? I'll tell you why: he's too afraid of alienating his viewing audience by saying anything negative about a Democrat no matter how infuriating something they've done is, like this incident with Conyers.

    It's interesting that you bring up Paul Wellstone. I'm NOT a conspiracy theorist, so I don't really believe this, but there are some folks out there who believe that Wellstone's plane crash was no accident.

    Don't you think tht Conyers understands that impeachment would not go anywhere at the moment?

    I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Accidents happen. Planes crash. People die. End of story.

    And what I think is that Conyers is a cold, calculating politican who used what he thought would resonate with his base to get himself reelected. And it worked. Do anything, say anything to get elected, promise heaven and all the stars and then default on it all like a typical politico.

    "Repeat a lie often enough, and people will start to believe it. "

    You mean like Bush saying:

    - There is a connection between Iraq & 9/11.
    - Iraq is the central front in the "War on Terror".
    - Saddam was trying to obtains WMD.
    - Saddam HAS WMD.
    - We don't torture.
    - We don't spy on Americans.
    - I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees.
    - You're doing a great job Brownie!

    I could go on and on, but it's not really necessary is it?

    "And it's why Beef & Co. can't see Olbermann for what he really is either. Instead they give him their wholehearted endorsement, and protect and defend him no matter how stupid something he does is "

    KAF, a couple days ago you lashed out at me because I couldn't determine your status as a "Liberal Democrat" through all of your right-wing reactionary BS. Now give me the same credit and quit making shit up about me. I've never given Olberamnn any kind of endorsement - I almost universally try to change the subject on this forum from its vapid celebritization of real political issues in this country to discussion of those issues themselves.

    DO you want the Democrats to impeach Bush? If they did launch an attempt I suspect you would be formost in whining that they were "wasting political capital" or "further dividing the country".

    Impeachment will come - its just that investigations must come first.

    KAF is a phoney - probably Cox or one of his friends trying to muddy up the water
    .

    "And what I think is that Conyers is a cold, calculating politican who used what he thought would resonate with his base to get himself reelected. And it worked. Do anything, say anything to get elected, promise heaven and all the stars and then default on it all like a typical politico.

    Posted by: KAF at December 25, 2006 12:14 PM"


    Would this be like "compassionate conservative" followed by gutting finding to social and medical services to states so as to fund tax breaks for the richest of the rich? Or would this be like the "clear skies initiative" headed by a former lobbyist for the worst of air polluters in our nation? Or would this be like "no child left behind" followed by gutting the funding promised for said program?

    As is the usual, the empty heads project the exact evil the Republicans are guilty of on to the Democrats.

    Who was it that held control of our nations government for the last 6 years? Oh did you forget to consider that when you were pretending the Democrats were?

    This is what watching Fox News does to a person. It liquefies their brains.

    Too funny. What do you want me to do? Submit to a "Democratic purity test?" I've watched a grand total of one hour of Fox News in my life and that was because I was in someone else's home and held hostage to it. I've voted for Democratic candidates for president in every presidential election since I became old enough to vote in the 1980's. Abortion? for it. Death Penalty: Against it. Tax breaks for the rich? Totally against them. National Health Insurance? I would like to see it. Corporations own this country and our politicans heart and soul. Anything else you want to quiz me on? Too f---ing bad. I don't owe you a single explanation or have to prove anything to you.

    And screw you for even daring I'm not a "real" dem because I won't join you in Bush-bashing. He's a tool, an idiot and that should go without saying. But I can read the name of this forum and realize it's Olbermannwatch not Bushwatch. And the reason I don't Republican bash is that it's all you people ever do so I don't feel the need to. Sorry if I'm not in the "Democrats are perfect" crowd but I realize that they are politicans and by definition are seriously flawed, and the vast majority (99.9%) are in it for themselves. And it's our own party's f----ups that cost us the last two presidential elections.

    And excuse me, but it is incredibly tiresome to see my fellow Dems taken in hook, line, and sinker by people like Conyers who promise one thing and do another, just as it is to see people taken in my Keith's very clever impersonation of a journalist. He's not. He's a hypocrite, a liar, a fraud, an egotistical arrogant ass. Just because he Bush-bashes, you people will stick your neck out to ridiculous extremes to excuse him or like Beef, change the subject to get the heat off of him. How about accountability from all quarters? THAT's what I want to see and no free passes just because someone Bush bashes.

    And LOL on the "Conyers has to have hearings before he calls for impeachment." He's not going to do jack-shit. Look at his website. You've been played. He removed all discussion of impeachment AFTER the election. I guess even he didn't think the Dems would pull off winning both houses so he thought he could promise anything and we'd be stupid enough to fall for it. Apparently some of us were. I just wasn't one of them. Even Pelosi has gone on record as saying there will be no impeachment proceedins. What part of that don't you seem to get? Let me guess. You still think Santa Claus is bringing you a pony don't you? Oh, and one more thing? Merry f---ing Christmas to you Beef.

    Great post KAF! They defend Olbermann, who's a supporter of the Iranian regime.

    Merry Christmas, everyone.

    KAF said, "the Democrats KNEW we didn't have enough troops and a clear exit strategy. But instead of standing up and complaining about it LOUDLY,"

    - So, AGAIN...instead of putting the blame on the president and republicans who came up with the war idea and strategy... you blame an entirely different group of people because they didn't complain LOUDLY enough for you. You can't get much more gradeschool than that.

    - OK, then... how about giving the rest of the civilized world some credit because they were out there from DAY ONE saying Bush was an idiot for going into Iraq. They were certainly complaining and not backing Bush.

    - And, again... no matter how LOUDLY dems would have screamed and complained, it wouldn't have done any good. Remember, they were in the minority and the GOP could do whatever the hell it wanted. Which it did and got us into the worst mess since Vietnam. And I would venture to guess that this will eventually be more damaging than 'Nam. Not in casualty count, but in world credibility.

    - And to whomever was attacking my profession... I'm here to tell you most (not all) reporters have no don't care which political party is in power when it comes to our jobs. The ones that do work at FOX. I know you don't believe me... but, I also don't care.

    Another incredibly stupid post from Red Wolf!

    Another incredibly confusing post from KAF! I've read every one of your posts and still cannot figure out where you're coming from. You say you are one thing but your posts read like you are something else entirely.

    OK, lets try to clear things up a little; Where do YOU stand on impeachment. Are YOU upset at Conyers because he's not following through with impeachment, or are you just trying to use him as an example to point out Democratic Party
    hypocracy?

    Do you personally want Bush impeached?

    Maybe you were not paying attention but Pelosi and most of the Democrats made it perfectly clear BEFORE the election that impeachment was not on the table. Conyers can't impeach anyone by himself.

    But they were silent, and what's worse, some of them openly cheerleaded FOR this war.

    Anonymous, excuse me, but you don't even have a name at this board and you think you have the right to interrogate me? Can't your read? Since you can't apparently let me spell this out explicitly for you: Bush needs to be held accountable for what he's done and more importantly, for what he's NOT done. But you know what? A hell of a lot of the Democrats who voted for this war need to be held accountable too. And the "but we didn't know what we were voting for" crap doesn't wash with me. They knew. They were just too lily-livered to stand up and speak out LOUDLY against the war. No one held their arms behind their backs and made them vote for the war. But they did.

    Who knows, maybe that's why they've all rolled over on their backs re impeachment. But I don't think so. I think it was a caluclated, political move to get re-elected to promise it, and then immediately withdraw it and say it was "off the table'.

    I just want to see EVERYONE in this country who cheer-led for this war have the screws put to them and that includes Bush, the GOP & the vast majority of the Democrats, who only became vocal when the polls began to tilt dramatically against Bush and the war. And if you were what you were supposed to be, you'd be more outraged at your own leaders than BushCo for their silence and for their being far more interested in what was politically expident for them instead of what was right for this country and the world at large. I never expected any better out of Bush & crew but I did out of the Democrats and I've been sorely disappointed over the past six years as I've watched them keep one eye on the polls and their own popularity rankings and put that before the national/international interests.

    KAF said, " I never expected any better out of Bush & crew but I did out of the Democrats and I've been sorely disappointed over the past six years as I've watched them keep one eye on the polls and their own popularity rankings and put that before the national/international interests."

    - You're disappointed in the Dems watching the polls the last six years? OK... what else should they have done? I agree they've never crafted a message. They preferred to let the GOP hang themselves with failed policy, lies and scandal. But, the dems were in the severe minority with no hope of getting anything they wanted passed.

    - Name ONE THING the dems should have done (which would have been possible), besides crying more loudly against the war.


    --- And THANK YOU for admitting the GOP is at least partially responsible for the mess in Iraq. I'd love it if you could admit they are actually MORE responsible (which they are), but I don't want to push my luck.

    Simple: Showed LEADERSHIP. You don't have to be the majority party in the House/Senate to show leadership. And they haven't. Instead of screaming from the top of their lungs they chose to remain silent. THeir speaking out, their protests could have helped rally support AGAINST this war. Instead they remained silent. Or else, what's far worse: cheered on behalf of the war, fully supporting it. They didn't have to vote for it. And they did. WHY?

    You seem to think that because they were outnumbered they were somehow justified in throwing up their hands and voting for it. What utter BS! How about acts of conscience? what happened to those? When was the last time you saw the GOP roll over for anyone? They made plenty of noise when they were out of power. Why weren't we?

    And what about the journalists in this country? Why weren't they asking the hard questions? Oh no, they were cheerleading right along with the Dems. And who was right there, going along with it? Mr. Keith Olbermann. Wonder what revisionist history he tells now to justify what he said then about the build-up and lead-in to war?

    I'm off to the movies this Christmas evening. Be back later tonight or tomorrow. I can't wait to see what pretzel-logic some of you come up with in the meantime to explain the widespread case of laryingitis that would explain the silence of the Democrats and Journalists in this country. Paul Wellstone had the cajones to stand up and say NO, So if he could do it, why couldn't everyone else? What was Cheney going to do, visit them at home and shoot them too? That is a question you all need to be asking yourself.

    Again, you can't be suspicious enough of the motives of politicans and yes, journalists. They are all in it for themselves, not the greater good.

    James:

    I do believe KAF is at least partially right to be angry at those who didn't stand against the invasion for political reasons. We shouldn't even be looking at Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, etc. for that very reason. It certainly showed a lack of sound judgement at a critical time, if nothing else.

    That said, the Republicans did lead the charge!

    KAF said, "Showed LEADERSHIP. You don't have to be the majority party in the House/Senate to show leadership. And they haven't."

    and

    "You seem to think that because they were outnumbered they were somehow justified in throwing up their hands and voting for it. What utter BS!"

    and

    "When was the last time you saw the GOP roll over for anyone? They made plenty of noise when they were out of power. Why weren't we? "

    - With the exception that I think they were justified in doing nothing... I agree with every single one of these points 100%.


    KAF said, "And what about the journalists in this country? Why weren't they asking the hard questions? Oh no, they were cheerleading right along with the Dems. And who was right there, going along with it? Mr. Keith Olbermann. "

    - I will take issue with some of this. More questions should have been asked. And harder questions. But... look at what happens when hard questions are asked at press conferences? That's why The DAILY SHOW has so much material. Because the White House can't answer them intelligently and they're caught in continual lies and flip-flops.

    - Second... who's available to ask the questions? Aside from press conferences, the only ones that are hardly ever given the chance to speak with adminstration in one-on-ones are FOX News People... and God knows they won't ask tough questions for fear their guys might look bad.

    - Lastly, KO may have been more positive on this war in the beginning. I wans't watching him right away. But, he was certainly one of the FIRST to come down hard on it. And he aks or points out hard facts EVERY NIGHT. No one from the administration would ever go on his show, thoguh.. They're too busy giving "exclusives" to apologists like Bill OReilly and Sean Hannity(God, I'd love to punch that guy).

    Was KO a supporter of this war in the beginning? If so, I didn't know that! I honestly don't know the answer to that question because I was not watching or listening to him at that time.

    I know his show was originally "COUNTDOWN TO IRAQ" or "COUNTDOWN TO WAR"... something like that. What the tenor of the show was, I have no idea. But, I know no one was bitching and whining about him them.

    The show was eventually renamed COUNTDOWN and took it's current format.

    "...Keith's very clever impersonation of a journalist. He's not. He's a hypocrite, a liar, a fraud, an egotistical arrogant ass. Just because he Bush-bashes, you people will stick your neck out to ridiculous extremes to excuse him or like Beef, change the subject to get the heat off of him. How about accountability from all quarters? THAT's what I want to see and no free passes just because someone Bush bashes. Posted by: KAF at December 25, 2006 06:44 PM"

    Boy talk about a pretender. Nothing like faking like you are on one side or another. Dude your simple.

    So I will say it again you idiot - who the hell has been in power the last 6 years? Conyers has no power to be a dictator of the house or the senate. Not impeaching Bush is being done for the benefit of the nation's foreign policy, not for Bush or the Democrats or anyone else. Unlike the Republicans who tore this nation down for 8 years chasing Clinton's dick around.

    Your fake attitude towards being critical of both the Republicans and the Democrats does nothing to bolster your justification for defining KO as you have. Keith Olbermann has yet to have an opportunity to ridicule the Democrats for f---ing up because they have yet to take their seats in congress. How the hell can your predetermined claims of him being a hypocrite be measured when the guy has yet to demonstrate it during a time when the Dems are in power? The Democrats sell our democracy to the highest bidder and pimp Jesus for votes, you can bet you last dollar Keith Olbermann will rip them a new one too.

    You are faker that has been here all along looking to join a group of pussies who feel like they have power in numbers by ganging up on one person. The f---ing media is full of more obvious hypocrites than KO, especially Fox News who you say you have only watched one hour of, yet you know the heart and soul of KO. So which is it? Do you watch cable news or not? How the hell can say Fox doesn't have more hypocrites if as you say, you never watch it? Maybe if you did you would be able to contrast your description of KO with his constituents in the media. At this point by your own words you can not. Your an idiot.

    But I digress, you are a faker and liar who can't have it both ways. Either you know what the hell you are talking about or you don't. Either you've only watched one hour of Fox or you haven't. How the hell can you single out one person in cable news media and classify him the way you do if you don't know jack shit about the rest of it?

    Like the rest of the brain dead faking cowards who play this gang-up game - you are bass ackwards suffering from the same rectal-cranial inversion.

    Get real! Your full of shit and it shows!

    Lets see the lies. This web site is a joke. The Bush administration is better at lying then this site is.

    Just search and destroy anyone who questions, and points out errors out the administration. Political hacks. Partisan hacks. you people hate America

    Lets see the lies. This web site is a joke. The Bush administration is better at lying then this site is.

    Just search and destroy anyone who questions, and points out errors out the administration. Political hacks. Partisan hacks. you people hate America

    the world would be a better place without olbermann or oreilly

    While i think book sales and ratings are irrelevant to the truth, I do notice that KO wrote and published his first book by the age of 14. It truly cracks me up the silly, pointless things many of you concern yourselves with.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Keith Olbermann is host of “Countdown with Keith Olbermann.” “Countdown,” a unique newscast that counts down the day’s top stories with Keith’s particular wit and style, telecasts weeknights, 8-9 p.m. ET on MSNBC.
    Olbermann began his career with NBC in 1997, when he was anchor for NBC Sports, hosting the World Series and Major League Baseball’s All-Star Game, and contributing to pre-game coverage of the Super Bowl. During that time he was also host of two primetime news programs on MSNBC, “The Big Show,” and “White House In Crisis.” Olbermann returned to MSNBC in 2003 as a substitute host on “Nachman” and an anchor for MSNBC’s coverage of the war in Iraq before launching “Countdown” in April of 2003. Previously, Olbermann provided twice-daily commentary, “Speaking of Sports,” for ABC Radio Network. Prior to that, he was a regular contributor on CNN.
    Olbermann may be best known for anchoring ESPN’s “SportsCenter” from 1992 to 1997, when his inimitable style made the blend of pop culture and sports a hallmark of the modern television sports reporter. While at ESPN, Olbermann helped launch ESPN2 and ESPN Radio network, and wrote the critically acclaimed book “The Big Show” about his experiences working on “SportsCenter.”
    Olbermann is the recipient of numerous distinguished awards in radio and television broadcasting, including the 1995 Cable Ace Award for Best Sportscaster, 11 Golden Mike Awards for excellence in television and radio, and four Sports Emmy Awards. Olbermann also received an Edward R. Murrow Award for his coverage of the events of 9/11.
    In addition to his extensive broadcasting experience, Olbermann has written for dozens of publications, including The New York Times, USA Today, Newsweek, Time, Sports Illustrated and Playboy. His first book, “The Major League Coaches,” was published when he was 14. Olbermann received a bachelor’s of science degree in communications arts from Cornell University. He lives in New York City

    "Showed LEADERSHIP. You don't have to be the majority party in the House/Senate to show leadership. And they haven't. Instead of screaming from the top of their lungs they chose to remain silent. Their speaking out, their protests could have helped rally support AGAINST this war. Instead they remained silent."

    I agree, KAF, that many Democrats have been cowardly and equivovcating. Many (Biden comes to mind) make a huge show of criticizing the administration's PERFORMANCE, but still tacitly express support for the fundamental neoconservative theories that got us into this hopeless quagmire. I recommend that you work for Dennis Kucinich in his uphill campaign for president in 2008. Kucinich has never been anything but against this war.

    But why do you hate Olbermann so passionately? He is speaking up, he is issuing strong, empirically supportable indictments against the people who started the war and have made chaos in Iraq, who else in the media is doing this?
    - these things you say you want from the leaders of your presumed political party? Amy Goodman puts on a good critical show on "Link TV" and other satellite stations, but she gets very little national exposure. I really can't think of anyone else.

    Is it because of Olbermann's "orange skin tone", or his "big womanly ass", or any of the other usual criticisms leveled with surgical precision against Olbermann from this bizzarre right-wing scape-goat orgy that is "Olbermannwatch"?

    And as for the Democrats and impeachment, I believe they will listen to their base. If we demand the investigations they will happen. Perhaps instead of bitching along spurious lines about a single media personality you, as a "Liberal Democrat", should write some letters to Pelosi, Conyers, et. al., as I do, demanding that accountability for war crimes and international piracy be a priority.

    "OK, lets try to clear things up a little; Where do YOU stand on impeachment. Are YOU upset at Conyers because he's not following through with impeachment, or are you just trying to use him as an example to point out Democratic Party
    hypocracy?"

    Anon, I suspect we will not get an answer from KAF on any of these questions. If he/she is a real person (as opposed to being a defensive strategy of Cox), then political nihilism and unaccountable bitching rights are his/her game. Taking an actual stand on something relevant could reduce the amount of bitching this person could do in the future.

    If KAF is in actuality a "Liberal Democrat" as he/she claims, then there is just more ammunition for the right-wingers' charges that "the Democrats have no plan, just criticisms".

    I am both upset at Conyers and yes, he makes a fine example of the hypocracy that runs rampant in DC.

    I'm not surprised I'm being attacked here. It's why I no longer bother to read liberal websites any more. God forbid you ask a tough question or point out something like this, you're ripped to shreds, banned, etc. It's the hive mentality whose first and most important law is: never criticize the Democrats. Law #2 is: The Dems are always right, the Republicans are always wrong. And Law #3: Never ever criticize anyone who is on "our side."

    If only life really were that black and white. It isn't of course, although in the minds of some posters here, it obviously is.

    And why do I have to criticize Olbermann? See--Law #3 in full play there. can't criticize him because he's for "us"! Wrong. He's for himself. I watched Countdown evolve from one of the best news shows out there into a one-sided partisan bashing party. And why? Because Keith was smart enough to figure out that if he couldn't get O'Reilly like ratings by running a straight news show, he'd thrown his journalistic ethics/standards to the wind and actively court a liberal audience. That's not journalism, that's selling your soul to get the highest ratings and I have no time or place in my life for someone who would sell out themselves so quickly to better their careers. And along the way, he's given up all pretenses of objectivity, although he still clings to it like a liferaft in interviews. I guess he thinks if he repeats it often enough, someone will believe him (who doesn't watch his show and doesn't know any better). I don't want biased news. I want real news presented from all angles. Countdown no longer does that. And it doesn't because Keith Olbermann decided to sell his soul for higher ratings. The truth is the truth and if only our Democratic politicans had the guts to speak the truth about the war before voting for it, this world might be in better shape. And for that matter, why is it when the polls turn around so dramatically that all of a sudden Keith finds his "voice" and that voice engages in partisanship which has non-coincidentally earned him higher ratings and a more prominent profile in the media?

    You see, I began to notice too that as his media profile began to rise, magazine articles, newspaper articles, etc., he seemed to decide that if a little bashing was good, a lot more would be better. And thus the Special Comments were born. And when the ratings were really good for those Special comments and websites filled up with praise for him, his ego had to be fed and he kept doing them to spike his ratings and juice his ego. I believe the term for dumping all pretenses of being an impartial journalist and ditching your journalistic ethics in exchange for higher ratings, more praise, more fame, and yes, the chance to pop the network for a $3 million pay raise is called whoring. One things is for sure, it's damn sure not journalism.

    And along the way there were little hints that he was far less than what he pretends to be and that he's utterly full of himself. Just how many more times can he interject himself into the story because he knows someone. How many more "me" stories does he have to tell about something that sometimes have only the very smallest link to whatever news story he's introducing? It's just one more sign of an ego-gone unchecked. Then there was the repeated mysognistic swings at women. And then it was the nasty comments made about co-workers. He may have been right but he was 100% unprofessional in saying them. And no apologies offered up for any of it. and then came the news he was shacking with a woman 25-26 years younger than he is after repeated jokes on air about how stupid men are who date/marry much younger women. So add Hypocrite to the list. And hypocrites and those who sell their souls out for success? Sorry, can't get onboard with that no matter whose side it is they're cheerleading on.

    And cowardwatch? I've got news for you, I don't give a rat's ass whether you believe me or not. See, I long ago broke away from the hive mentality. I can think for myself. And I've got a BS detector so fine that NORAD could use it to track with. I just wish more of you could open your eyes and see the big picture and the entire world for what it really is. And trust me, it ain't in black and white.

    A nice thing about KO, is that they have a graphic that notes "special comment" when he is doing one, so you know that this is a commentary piece, not 'news'. I suppose someone will find a way to say that's unethical

    KAF,

    OK, so you are a "Liberal Democrat" who despises all Democratic office-holders as well as the only widely-viewed current-events show that consistantly criticizes the Bush administration. Fine. You can call yourself whatever you want.

    Which journalists do you respect? Who is out there doing the job and satisfying these firm but still nebulous criteria you claim to hold?

    KAF,

    OK, so you are a "Liberal Democrat" who despises all Democratic office-holders as well as the only widely-viewed current-events show that consistantly criticizes the Bush administration. Fine. You can call yourself whatever you want.

    Which journalists do you respect? Who is out there doing the job and satisfying these firm but still nebulous criteria you claim to hold?

    I don't despise all Democratic officeholders and no where did I ever say I did. You just assumed, and assumed wrongly. And if you hate me because I refuse to join you in your hatred of all things Republican and in your praise of all Things Olbermann, so be it. I can live with it because I know I'm right and you're wrong. And hopefully one day you'll wake up and realize you've been duped. Quite frankly, I long ago stopped caring what anyone thought of me so no big.

    I don't know what is so "nebulous" about the criteria I have for journalists. They should do their damned jobs and do them in a fair and impartial manner. What is "nebulous" about that?

    At CNN I like John Roberts, John King, Sanjay Gupta, and yes, Anderson Cooper. He's not a good anchor but he's great in the field, a little bit too touchy-feely for my liking but at least I believe he's sincere. And yes, at least he risks his life to cover a story and ventures out of the studio occasionally and also presents all sides of an issue. I don't watch Lou Dobbs, he's too obsessed with the immigration issue. And Paula Zahn, for all of her blandness, is at least capable of presenting both sides of an issue in an intelligent manner, without it degenerating down into a screaming match. Wolf Blitzer bores me to tears and I just don't think he's all that bright.

    On MSNBC, I began hating Tucker Carlson because that's what I was supposed to do. Turns out his show isn't bad at all and again, he presents opinions from both sides, he does give his opinion but he's not at all shy about stating that it's an opinion and I respect him for that. And there just doesn't seem to be the bitter hatred from opposing sides on his show that I've seen on others, no shouting matches. I appreciate that as well. Too bad his ratings suck.
    I've seen maybe three eps of Scarborough total so I can't speak about him per se. Chris Jansing seem to me to be a very good reporter and a more than competent anchor. I also think Alison Stewart is capable of bringing forth her personality without any apparent bias.

    I just love how now I'm being dissected and again, the issues I've presented are being ignored while you all quiz me.

    BUSH ADMIN HONORS 9/11 DEAD BY KILLING 3K MILITARY, 100K CIVILIANS

    -- May Also Kill 1000 Civil Servants To Honor Fallen Katrina Victims --

    NEW YORK (AP) - In a span of a few hours, 2,973 people were killed in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. In a span of 45 months, the number of American troops killed in Iraq exceeded that grim toll as the war continues. The milestone in Iraq came on Christmas, nearly four years after the war began, according to a count by The Associated Press. In announcing the Monday deaths of three soldiers, the toll from those fighting the war surpassed the toll from those killed by terrorists in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.

    KAF,

    So you like safe, controlled. "conventional wisdom" as news. Everyone you've named with the exception of Carlson gets their opinions directly from ABC's "The Note" by that Republican stooge Marc Halperin. Somehow - mostly through sucking up to individual journalists in its text - this blog has become the source of conventional wisdom in the media. Have you not noticed that each of the personalities you listed seems to arrive at the same concepts and the same phrasology at the same time as all the others? Talk about a herd mentality...

    ...and questions - when was the last time you eard one of these cyphers asking a relevant or difficult question? All of CNN and most of MSNBC is vanilla pablum campared with his show.

    Olbermann doesn't ask a lot of questions either - he makes statements and accusations that resonate with me and a lot of other pissed-off people, and that's just fine with me.

    I've mentioned Amy Goodman of "Democracy Now a number of times and no one has commented. If Olbermann is too insincere, rude, or opinionated for you, what about Goodman?

    So here's the essence of good journalism and a good journalist as articulated by Sir Loin---making "statements and accusations" that resonate with his viewpoints. You don't do that, as Olbermann does, then you're a vanilla corporate whore.

    You might want to ask yourself, KAF, why you work to explain yourself to someone of that mentality.


    I really don't know Cecila. I don't owe him any explanation and I'm weary of giving them. He's so blinded by partisanship, as Olbermann is that he no longer recognizes what a real journalist looks like. How much more delusional can you get than believing that Marc Halperin is the person controlling what 99.9% of everyone else on tv is talking about. Excuse me for saying this but what a complete and utter load of bullshit. I don't know what programs Beef has been watching but I've seen plenty of hard questions asked on both CNN & MSNBC that most certainly did not tow the GOp party-line as he seems to believe.

    And the essence of Beef's mindset is contained in this line, "Olbermann doesn't ask a lot of questions either - he makes statements and accusations that resonate with me and a lot of other pissed-off people, and that's just fine with me."

    So Beef and his ilk are pissed off and they are so blinded by their anger and their hatred that they would wish to see journalists who will make accusations that have nothing to do with the truth, which is probably why good journalists don't say what he wants to hear, and why Olbermann, who has sold his soul to court these kind of angry lunatics doesn't mind. Real journalists have no interest in lying and slanting the news like Olbermann does so therefore in Beef's eyes, they aren't real journalists. If that's not the definition of insanity, I don't know what else is.

    Sorry but I'll keep looking for straight news sources and calling BS on politicans, both GOP & Democratic. And Beef? Get some anger-management therapy. I suspect your anger isn't all about politics and that there are some probably very deep-seated other issues at play. It's this type of blind anger that has turned this country into the mess it is, but thanks for the confirmation of your mind-set that the dems are always right and the gop is always wrong, etc etc etc etc.

    KAF, have you considered the possibilty that you are dealing with a provacateur?

    Yes. The word, "a-hole" has also crossed my mind.

    "Yes. The word, "a-hole" has also crossed my mind. "

    f--- you, you phoney piece of shit.

    Sir Loin writes: "f--- you, you phoney piece of shit."


    Good thinking, KAF...