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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    January 10, 2007
    COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN - JANUARY 10, 2007

    "COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" (8:00 P.M.-9:00 P.M. ET)

    Host: Keith Olbermann

    Topics/Guests:

    • PRESIDENT BUSH'S CREDIBILITY: Howard Fineman, MSNBC political analyst
    • WHAT ABOUT THE TROOPS? Paul Rieckhoff, executive director of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America and author of "Chasing Ghosts"
    • COUNTDOWN TO THE SPEECH: Chris Matthews, MSNBC's "Hardball with Chris Matthews"

    The opening spiel was grave and laden with portentious tones of doom. "Two more Republican Senators jumped ship." More lawmakers who oppose the surge. No mention of or clips from any who support it. Heavens, Keith was about to have the an attack of the vapors as he announced it's the "Countdown to 'Mister' Bush's Address"!

    MADMAN

    The Prez will use the "m-word" ("mistake"). The surge is like a stairmaster "that never, ever stops". More clips of people opposing the surge. No clips of anyone supporting it. Olbermoronn tells the tonsorially-enhanced David Gregory it all sounds familiar, it's more of the same. Great thanks.

    More talk of Repubs opposing the plan; no mention of anyone supporting it. Krazy Keith komplained to Richard Wolffe that the Dems' opposition seems too symbolic, brought up the battleship (for the second time), and again cited the Repubs against the plan. The Wolffe Man opined that he's said it all before. AGAIN Olby rattles off the Repubs opposed to the plan. When in bloody hell is he going to talk about someone else?!? Great thanks, and a plug for a guest tomorrow: John Madden Murtha (D). The List will be updated.

    Another episode of Olby and The Perfessor: how can the Dems stop the Commander in Chief from sending reinforcements to Iraq? Jonathan Turley says Bush can't wage war if Congress cuts off funds or restricts their use, if they have the "intestinal fortitude". Non-binding resolutions are "insulting and ridiculous". Great thanks.

    Then a cherry-picked poll, and Olby's use of Dem talking-point term "escalation". Recycled video from Iraq. Great thanks. Asinine moment of the day: Fat Ass lecturing Michelle Malkin, who apologized for a mistake, something Monkeymann never does. How many of his 2006 lies has the infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann apologized for? Zero!

    Next another lecture, this one a list of "Mister" Bush's war rationales and mistakes, as Krazy Keith, of all people, raised the question of credibility. Fineman, Pundit for All Occasions, sucked up in true sycophantic style (gushing "Wow!" after Monkeyman's laundry list). Bush has no credibility; nobody trusts him; comparisons to Nixon and Johnson. He can't buy any time. Great thanks.

    Rieckhoff was next, to discuss what Olby called the "loss, pain, and strain" on the military. YET AGAIN KO brings up a Repub against the plan. Reickhoff: "It won't work". It's a "half-cooked plan" and "stupid". Divorce rates are up; so is post-traumatic stress disorder. Herr Olbermann makes a VietNam comparison. Great thanks. #1 segment featured Chrissie Matthews, with "Man on Fan" Olbermann mentioning for what seemed like the 89th time the Republicans opposed to the plan, but not anyone in support. No wait, make that the 90th time--he rattled them off again while talking to Matthews, and then Matthews repeated the names again. Lather, rinse, repeat. It will be nothing but bloody casualties. Hey, viewer, are you getting the message?

    There was still time for the Media Matters Minute: "delusional bigot" Glenn Beck (conservative; Blue Blog Source: TVNewser), John McCain (R; Blue Blog Source: Think Progress), and Gretchen Carlson (Fox; Blue Blog Source: Think Progress and TVNewser). Another trifecta: all three slots filled!

    OLBY

    The dogs that did not bark tonight were all of one breed. Every quote cited by Edward R Olbermann was from an opponent of the President or the plan. Not one soundbite, not one quote from anyone in support. The lawmakers against the plan were cited over and over ad nauseam--but not one second of coverage for supporters. Not one guest argued for the plan or the President. Every person on the program, including the host, argued from the same anti-Bush, anti-surge platform. By comparison, on The O'Reilly Factor there was opinions in favor of the plan (Dan Senor, O'Reilly), and opinions against (Col David Hunt, Gen Wesley Clark, Dick Morris). Olbermann thinks Bill O'Reilly is eeevil incarnate, but at least Mr Bill understands the difference between balanced analysis, and rank propaganda in the style of Radio North Korea--Olbermoronn's stock-in-trade.

    NAME

    Olbermann's book The book that bears Olberman's name sunk to #5,640 at amazon.com; Mr Bill's "Culture Warrior" rose to #85. The OlbyTome slipped to #2,794 at Barnes & Noble; O'Reilly's book is #332 there, as well as being one of 2006's top ten best sellers. On Tuesday's Hour of Spin, the discredited sports guy slipped comfortably into a typical third place finish, both in total viewers and in the critical, beloved, all-important, coveted "key demo". Tonight's MisterMeter reading: 7 [HIGH]


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (454) | | View blog reactions

    454 Comments

    Oh, there's that ignorant Jonathan Turley again.

    Now, why doesn't KO interview a real consitutional scholar....like Limbaugm, for instance?

    Oh, there's that ignorant Jonathan Turley again.

    Now, why doesn't KO interview a real consitutional scholar....like Limbaugm, for instance?

    -------------------------------------------------

    Cause Limbaugh is off his MEDS .

    The RWers LOVED Limbaugh when he was using 30 Oxycontent a day. He was so doped up on Hillbilly heroine and they followed him like little sheep.

    My apologies, to hillbillies. I should never have used the term in the same sentence with the name of Limbaugh.

    SHADDUP- I am listening to the song!

    Who the hell is Olby to ask anyone for apologies? He never apologizes for his repeated and intentional lies?

    The Buffalo,
    I read yor ignorant post. Your Stalist thibking at it's worst!

    Oh, there's that ignorant again.
    -------------------------------------------------

    Wasn't it Jonathan Turley that the RWers held up as THE Constitutional Expert, when they were TRYING to impeach Clinton.

    Now that he is offering his EXPERT opinion in opposition to the Bush administration, they want to portray him as some sort of wacko.

    RWers ..... their hypocracies know no bounds.

    awww, pink kitty is with us again tonight.

    here kitty kitty

    glad to see you

    Pink kitty kitty = Olby.

    Pink kitty kitty = Olby.
    ----------------------------------------


    No, Red Wolf is a really masculine handle.

    Knowing the fellow that uses that handle, and knowing how effeminate he is, decided to address him as pink kitty

    The show has passed the halfway mark and Olby's only covered Iraq from the left angle. No one expected deviation from Olbyspin, truthfully.

    Mr. Bush's address? He couldn't bother to say "President"? Unbelievable.

    Keith, I've decided to come back.

    You should have never smoked.

    Yay- KC- Now that is someone I am happy to see here!

    Anon:

    I DID here him say 'president', several times, although I, just like KO, don't believe he deserves the title.

    O'Reilly has Wes Clark?....Aw man, I really wish I had cable to see that exchange.

    Then again, Olbermann has Professor Turley....great guest!(sarcasm)....Did he give an opinion about Congressional oversight regarding Kennedy's bill?

    So how's the speech going- I am wrapped up in watching Duke lose back to back games!

    Hey Mr. 'Cancer', how many times are you gonna 'come back'?

    I thought you went into remission

    Keith, I've decided to come back.

    You should have never smoked.

    You leaning on the 'return' button?

    Red Wolf....

    Comic Book Store Guy (Buffalo) only comes by after midnight....that's when his local POPEYE'S Chicken joint closes and he can get the dark meat for 1/2 off.

    Here it is - Glenn Beck named as Worse Person in the World. Notice how Olby sidesteps Beck's comments about Olby's liberalism and instead throws stones at him. Typical Olby. Geraldo is right - here kitty, kitty.

    Why is there a website dedicated to attacking Keith Olbermann ?

    Is it because the RWers are perfectly content with the performances of Matthews, Scarborogh, and all of the other right winged kooks on MSNBC ?

    While that is true, that is not the reason.

    Could it be that Keith is so far left politically ?

    No, that cant be the case cause Keith is more middle of the road on most issues.

    Could it be that Keith has on many occasions, instead of just spewing rhetoric, and insults like Bill O, he has shown video or played audio of Bill O saying something, and then showing more video or audio of Bill saying the Exact Opposite of what he said earlier,

    He doesnt have to attack Bill O, He only has to show the 2 pieces to prove Bill O to be a hypocrit and/ or liar.

    And the RWers will NOT ALLOW anyone to show the TRUTH about their hero,

    Not without starting and inhabiting a website like olbermannwatch.com

    Someone please apply some doxorubicin and end KC's metastasizing!

    Olby's telekinetic powers must not be very powerful him because the site is available again. Maybe they make a type of Viagra for limp telekinetic abilities. Did anyone else see the 404 message that displayed when attempting to open the comments thread?

    Keith, I've decided to come back.

    You should have never smoked.

    Keith, I've decided to come back.

    You should have never smoked.

    Liberals....bad!!!! Conservatives.....good!!!!!

    Olbermann....bad!!!! Beck......good!!!!!!

    Gotta go out now.....moon still full!!!!!

    "cause Keith is more middle of the road on most issues"

    You have just proven yourself insane.

    Moonbats abound.

    Keith, I've decided to come back.

    You should have never smoked.

    We just did not get around to setup one to track the ScreamBall on MSNBC.

    Jennings was a real notch and more high profile...but you will be fun.

    He couldn't bother to say "President"?
    ----------------------------------------------------

    I never refer to the lying scumbag as president, he doesnt deserve my respect. I dont even use the term Mr., I think that is a debatable subject.


    ----------------------------------------------
    Then again, Olbermann has Professor Turley....great guest!(sarcasm)
    ----------------------------------------------

    See what I meant above, their hero and expert on the constitution when they are TRYING to impeach Clinton, now the crack pots want to portray him as less than credible.

    The RWers have no shame, and their hypocracies know no bounds.

    Jennings was a real notch and more high profile...but you will be fun.

    C'mon, not my real name:

    You're calling Mathews a 'right winger", or is you're whole act just a put on?

    I am admittantly left of center and anti-war, and I say Mathews is anything but a right winger!

    Olbermann Watch blocks users from posting. Forget trying to argue with these fools. They live for trampling free speech.

    "Facist" Revealed: Were you blocked ?!?

    You rookies suck!
    So far you haven't said a bit of truth and definitely nothing intelligent. Go rinse out your diapers and come back after you read some newspaper.

    Facist:

    They haven't blocked me yet. I guess I'm not radical enough!

    Is this thing on?

    Olbermann Watch [Us Bicker] in Technicolor

    Sure was. Given the old "Too many post, try again later."

    I think the truth is just too much for the admins.

    Its always a conspiracy with you lefties.

    We are Americans here ... we don't block or censor... and we do nottrademark our names or trade-dress like Gorbacov or Putin have... ( RUDOLPH GIULIANI !!! )

    Keith, I've decided to come back.

    You should have never smoked.

    You're calling Mathews a 'right winger", or is you're whole act just a put on?

    I am admittantly left of center and anti-war, and I say Mathews is anything but a right winger!

    ---------------------------------------------------


    then Mike, you werent paying close attention on the run up to the war.

    and I KNOW that matthews has been saying that he opposed the war from the start,


    When the war was being debated, Christ Matthews was one of the most prolific users of the "if you oppose this war at all you are protesting the troops" argument.

    He did it literally HUNDREDS of times.

    I was opposing the war, because I support the troops.

    I dont mind going to war, if there is need, I dont oppose going to war if there is evidence of a threat to the US.

    What I do oppose, is sending troops into harms way, based on lies/ I also oppose those that would squelch or hinder debate about the need for war, by doing what Chris Matthews did,

    BTW, I was one of about 4 or 5 people, that used to do a play by play on the old Hardball message board, pointing out HOW Chris was a propagandist for the right wing.

    We eneded up making MSNBC shutdown that message board, because we were pointing out the propaganda and lies in real time, and they could not have that.

    So yes, if you have been paying attention, you would KNOW that Chris is a right wing propagandist.

    cuckoo-cuckooo-

    Welcome- you'll fit in ole man without a name!

    Red Wolf....

    Comic Book Store Guy (Buffalo) only comes by after midnight....that's when his local POPEYE'S Chicken joint closes and he can get the dark meat for 1/2 off.

    (Sorry...I posted as Anon before)

    cee- wondered... very funny!

    John Kennedy
    Lyndon Johnson
    Richard Nixon
    Gerald Ford
    Jimmy Carter
    Ronald Reagen
    George H. W. Bush
    Bill Clinton
    George W. Bush

    ...

    Rudolph Giuliani ?!?!?!?

    the lying SOB is on TV right now

    I would really like that, OWUB....McCain is too old and nutty.

    Who ?!? Rudolph Giuliani ?!?!

    That lying SOB is your President and has his shaky little finger ON THE BUTTON!

    I used to like JOhn mc Cain...then he thought that he could play coy with baseball politics ...

    RUUUUUUDY RUUUUUDY RUUUUUDY!

    Yeah baby.....a president who's name ends with a vowel....that'll be a good thing!

    Isn't Tom Tancredo supposed to try for the right wing nomination for presidency ?

    Y is a vowell...

    It's one of those comforting little "fireside chats", just like President Reagan used to do.

    I could go for a fireside chat right about now ...

    and Obama ends with an A

    You're right, there is no 'fire', but I do see an old oil lamp on the shelf to his right.

    Funny someone posted this

    -----------------------------------------------

    Maybe they make a type of Viagra

    --------------------------------------------------

    Me and some of my friends were discussing this just the other day.

    Has anyone here noticed, that when any of the Viagra type drugs, like cialis are doing their commercials on TV, they have a target audience,
    '
    'All of their commericals show NASCAR (one even has a NASCAR race team ), golfers, rodeo events, baseball games ........


    I guess they are telling America, what some of us already know, that the sorts of people that go to nascar events, play golf, and even baseball fans, are limp noodles when it comes to sexuality.

    I also have noticed and pointed out to my friends, that those are the same places that REPUBLICANS hang out.

    All they (the drug companies) need to add to their list of targeted audiences, is the WWE, WWF crowds to have a clean sweep of republican type events.

    One could summize that even the drug companies know that their target audience for customers that need their drugs to fight impotence, is the republicans.

    A bunch of limp noodled republicans.. .....

    Is viagra helping them reproduce?

    Me and some of my friends were discussing this just the other day.

    Anonymous at January 10, 2007 9:00 PM
    --------------------------

    Dude... why were you discussing this... unless you.... oh nevermind.

    And I could have sworn that Cialis commercials feature people sitting in bath tubs (for some unknown reason) out in the middle of wine country.

    Johnny, I see your clock is wrong. Is that the same as a lie?

    Is viagra helping them reproduce?
    ----------------------------------------------

    that and women that JUST lay there and take it,

    To the TV

    "Oh Chris Matthews, get your lips off his ass"

    "Jonathan Turley says Bush can't wage war if Congress cuts off funds or restricts their use, if they have the "intestinal fortitude". Non-binding resolutions are "insulting and ridiculous".

    OHHHH NOOOOO....I agree with The Perfesser!

    Is there a cure? Please tell me there is a cure!

    Dude... why were you discussing this... unless you.... oh nevermind.
    -----------------------------------------------

    because I always enjoy a good chuckle, and the fact that the drug companies recognize that the republicans are a bunch of limp d1cks is hillarious,

    Who is going to give out the rebuff at the end of the movie ?

    I'm sure you'll be cured the next time the Perfessor appears on Olby's show and spouts his moonbat interpretation of the Constitution. It can't be too far in the future; he seems to join the Olbyspin at least once a week. Agreeing with The Perfessor is as rare as finding hen's teeth.

    Riiiiiiiight. Very believable.

    I was not aware that Democrats do not play golf or watch NASCAR....

    I guess VIAGRA is only for Republicans....after all, Bob Dole was a spokesperson.

    Perhaps it's just there is no demand by the ladies for the older Democrats to perform...I mean, afterall...Byrd, Kennedy, RANGEL! Ech.

    Ok....let's get off this topic, now.

    Since Cancer wants to be so childish as to post the same thing over and over and over and over.. ....

    And since CEE just did what I said right wingers do abovc, so my REPOST is relevant to the conversation, I will repost this, but not over and over and over and over
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Wasn't it Jonathan Turley that the RWers held up as THE Constitutional Expert, when they were TRYING to impeach Clinton.

    Now that he is offering his EXPERT opinion in opposition to the Bush administration, they want to portray him as some sort of wacko.

    RWers ..... their hypocracies know no bounds.
    -------------------------------------------------------

    So, Professor Turley must be a flip flopper!

    'Liberal' one week and 'Conservative' the next.

    I just can't keep up with him.

    No, John Kerry is current politics' "flip-flopper". John Turley is the go-getter .

    I was not aware that Democrats do not play golf or watch NASCAR.

    ----------------------------------------


    I did not say ONLY republicans attend such events. But by a VAST majority, the people at a NASCAR event, a rodeo, at the WWE or WWF, or playing golf, are republicans.

    And the people that make Viagra, Cialis .......

    They know who their prospective customers are.....


    Hahahahahahahaha

    Democrats attend NHRA drag racing events and go bowling!

    Anon...thank you for only reposting once....

    No, I would say I agree with Turley regarding the specfic enumerated powers of the branches as well as what constitutes a high crime and misdemeanor....(This is why I agreed with him above and about Clinton)

    But I totally disagree with him on his more libertarian views with regard to signing statements, other executive powers with regard to intelligence gathering and conducting war policy. And the suspension of habeus corpus canard made me lose any respect I once held for him.

    So, Professor Turley must be a flip flopper!

    'Liberal' one week and 'Conservative' the next.

    I just can't keep up with him.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    It couldnt be that the RWers use people that AGREE with them to help make their arguments, and AS SOON as they offer an opinion that contradicts the republican message they are crackpots.

    We have never seen that before,,,,,,,

    But we have over and over and over and over over and over and over and over ....

    That is why most Americans arent buying your BS anymore, Or Bushs BS,

    Now that President Bush is done speaking... how about some attention to President Olbermann and vice president Turley ?

    Maybe it's because republicans try to make things better... liberals try to learn to accept the way things are, and be proud about their limp noodles.

    Or maybe Tom sees it as welcomed relief from Steve.


    Either way, you're wrong about the commercials. I think you're thinking of Prilosec OTC... they have the NASCAR fans.

    Very funny, Mike.

    democrats attend NHRA drag racing events and go bowling!
    --------------------------------


    Again, I did not say everyone at those events is a republican, JUST the VAST majority.

    Oh, and I forgot the bowling, I think most people that see bowling as a sport and participate are republicans. After all, they think NASCAR, golf, the rodeo, and the WWE (WWF ) are sporting events.

    Now, now, ImNotBlue....that was poor form.

    I think the bladder control pharma is directed more towards The D's.

    Olbermann rules.

    Seriously, anyone who calls Rush Limbaugh a constitutional scholar is taking too much Oxy themselves.

    Please READ THE CONSTITUTION !!!

    Learn something before echoing the punditry of others who don't read at all...

    Godd bless America.

    It couldnt be that the RWers use people that AGREE with them to help make their arguments, and AS SOON as they offer an opinion that contradicts the republican message they are crackpots.

    Anonymous at January 10, 2007 9:39 PM

    -------------------------

    I'm confused... isn't that what you're doing. You like him now... but did you like him then? Hmmm... seems a little hypocritical... but then again, I'm not surprised.

    Somebody needs to get Johhny Appleseed a sense of humor. He MUST be a republican!

    cee- Prilosec OTC is for heartburn...

    as for the bladder control issues... well, I guess it... Depends...

    Maybe it's because republicans try to make things better... liberals try to learn to accept the way things are, and be proud about their limp noodles.
    --------------------------------------
    55 here, and NO PROBLEMS , but I am glad that YOU are willing to admit (republicans try to make things better ) that YOU need help.


    ---------------------------------------------------------


    Or maybe Tom sees it as welcomed relief from Steve.
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    To make it more accurate lets say


    Or maybe Tom sees it as welcomed relief from ....

    ..... Mark Foley
    ..... Tom Haggard
    ..... Jeff Gannon
    ..... Republicans that profess to hate homos, All of them
    ..... Republicans that want us to go to war, but wont serve


    Or get Johnny Appleseed an Applefarm...

    If you think I need a sense of humor because I recommend people to read the Constitution of United States, then you must be a Neo-Con.

    Thanks for making you're position obvious.

    Rock on.

    "It will be nothing but bloody casualties. Hey, viewer, are you getting the message?"

    Johhny FRAUD, in his RIGHT up to todays show

    No, apparently you aren't, Johnny FRAUD. We are going to have MORE casualties if we put more troops in Iraq... It is basic math... I realize that you flunked that class in 3rd grade (the apparent extent of your education,) but, alas, if you have approximately 160,000 troops in a country & 3000 get killed, if you put another 20,000 in, the killing will NOT all of a sudden end...

    Moron...

    Mr. Appleseed, old buddy......go back and look at that first post of the night again and tell me once again that you took it seriously?

    Mister meter rating: [HIGH] ... is Bush in cohoots with Keith Olbermann ?!?! BUSH GAVE OLBERMANN HIGH RATINGS !!! He should have went on earlier ... or even earlier ...

    "55 here, and NO PROBLEMS"

    Oooh, 55 and alone... that sucks. Sorry dude.

    I'm confused... isn't that what you're doing. You like him now... but did you like him then? Hmmm... seems a little hypocritical... but then again, I'm not surprised.

    ---------------------------------------------------


    Who said I opposed him when he offered testimony at the Clinton impeachement hearings ?

    NOT ME,

    YOU tried to spin it that way, but I never said that.

    --------------------------------------------------

    Hmmm... seems a little hypocritical... but then again, I'm not surprised.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    The hypocracy is YOURS. Unless you want to say that you agree with him NOW.

    So you liked him then, and you supported impeaching Clinton?

    and Obama ends with an A

    Posted by: ImNotBlue at January 10, 2007 8:58 PM


    & Al Gore ends with an E... lol

    Mike, are you talking to me?

    I don't think putting a drop the the troop bucket is smart.

    Let me be clear...I hate W. He is the worst thing that has happen to the US in modern history.

    Olbermann for President, bitches.

    Tancredo ends with an 'o' ...

    Tancredo ends with an 'o' ...

    Posted by: Olbermann Watch [Us Bicker] in Technicolor at January 10, 2007 9:57 PM


    & tumbleweed ends with a D... Just like his GPA...

    lol

    Anon @ 8:24,
    Wes Clark is on O'Reilly? We all know what that means? It's time for O'Loofah to slander the brave American troops at Malmedy again.

    Nice... LOUD demonstrations at the white house...

    That is Democracy in action (at it's best!!)

    Johnny:

    Oh, you're clear all right.

    I've been trying to point out to you that my first post implying Limbaugm was a "Constitutional scholar" was nothing but a joke...as in sarcasm. It sounded like you took it at face value, based on you're response.

    Now why did I have to explain that?

    You're totally spoiling my illusion that only Republicans lack a sense of humor!

    Defending CEE here

    -----------------------------------
    ImNotBlue said

    cee- Prilosec OTC is for heartburn...

    as for the bladder control issues... well, I guess it... Depends.

    -------------------------------------

    I guess you WOULD KNOW

    Mike,

    Olbermann Watch is a giant spoof of Krazy Keith. Don't you understand? I find it funny that so many lefties don't "get it".

    Dude,

    I wasn't saying you're joke about Rush was serious. I was saying that people who believe that.....because some do.....are idiots.

    Imitation is the sincerest for of flattery.

    Same side, man. Relax.

    Yes, I would. I have to watcg that darn Brett Favre commercial all day.

    Rico:

    I've been doing nothing but spoofing on here for the last hour (again, look at the very first post of the night....by me). Why don't you 'get' that?

    This website is not a "spoof" ... the people here want to see Keith Olberman no longer a viable media figure .

    Mike,

    Olbermann Watch is a giant spoof of Krazy Keith. Don't you understand? I find it funny that so many lefties don't "get it".

    Posted by: Rico at January 10, 2007 10:05 PM

    Oh we get it all right, Rico... We get it MUCH better than any of you, apparently...

    Because WE are , like Keith is, opposed to this sick, stupid excuse to a war that we never should have gotten into...

    Because we, like Keith, have had enough of this farce of a Presidency that was given to him by his brother...

    Because we, like keith, have had enough of the Bullshit at Fox "News..."

    You are the one who needs to 'understand...'

    Mike,

    Olbermann Watch is a giant spoof of Krazy Keith. Don't you understand? I find it funny that so many lefties don't "get it".

    Posted by: Rico at January 10, 2007 10:05 PM

    Oh we get it all right, Rico... We get it MUCH better than any of you, apparently...

    Because WE are , like Keith is, opposed to this sick, stupid excuse to a war that we never should have gotten into...

    Because we, like Keith, have had enough of this farce of a Presidency that was given to him by his brother...

    Because we, like keith, have had enough of the Bullshit at Fox "News..."

    You are the one who needs to 'understand...'

    Rico:

    I think I misread you're post out of context....well, EXcuse me!

    not blue said

    So you liked him then, and you supported impeaching Clinton?

    ----------------------------------------------------


    I did not think that Clintos LIES rose to the point of impeachment, but I did not and do not think that Turleys opinion should have been dismissed with nothing but BS and insults.


    You on the other hand, agreed with EVERYTHING that Turley said during the impeachment, and NOTHING that he says now,

    Your RW stratigies dont work any more.

    BTW, are you too much of a COWARD to answer my question.

    See, I answered yours, but you are AFRAID to answer mine.

    Typical Cowardly republican, and everyone here can see it. Unless they are just another lying republican

    There are people here who want to see Bill O'Reilly no longer a viable media figure.

    This website is not a "spoof" ... the people here want to see Keith Olberman no longer a viable media figure .

    Mike,

    I did think you were venturing into humor tonight. You surprised me, because you have generally seemed humorless in the past. I hope you keep up the good work. But you still need to get that Olbermann Watch is one giant spoof of KO.

    Proud:

    We're on the same side politically, but seriously dude....you need to lighten up a little!

    Johnny Appleseed: Or in a zoo v v v

    Rico:

    You don't know me at all yet, and vice versa, I'm sure

    There are people here who want to see Bill O'Reilly no longer a viable media figure.

    ----------------------------------------------


    Best Joke of the night so far, HILARIOUS

    You IMPLY that Bill O EVER WAR a viable media figure.

    That he EVER had ANY credibility.

    That he EVER had ANY integrity,

    That he EVER had ANY honesty

    That is Funny'

    Now I am really going to tarnish Mike's rep with his cohorts. Rico, Mike does have a sense of humour and is a member in good standing with the good guys group in spite of his politics:).

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    notblue


    Still waiting on your answer, did you agree with Turley when he testified at the Clinton impeachment trial?

    Do you now disagree with him ?

    Either answer or be labled a lying coward republican

    "Proud:

    We're on the same side politically, but seriously dude....you need to lighten up a little!"

    Posted by: Mike at January 10, 2007 10:12 PM

    I realize we are on the same side, Mike.... But tell me that you haven't had enough of the constant bs SPEWING out of the RW's mouths?

    I am sorry to offend you, though... You have some very good insights... I do value your opinion, & your support...

    "Proud:

    We're on the same side politically, but seriously dude....you need to lighten up a little!"

    Posted by: Mike at January 10, 2007 10:12 PM

    I realize we are on the same side, Mike.... But tell me that you haven't had enough of the constant bs SPEWING out of the RW's mouths?

    I am sorry to offend you, though... You have some very good insights... I do value your opinion, & your support...

    Olbermann War 3 here. . . .

    Grammie,

    If you and Mike start singing Kumbaya now I will lose my cookies for sure!

    Did I say viable media figure?

    I mean there are people here who would rather he stopped breathing voluntarily...

    Namely, me.

    Appleseed!!! This is a family media watching website !!!

    I mean there are people here who would rather he stopped breathing voluntarily...

    Namely, me.

    Posted by: Johnny Appleseed at January 10, 2007 10:24 PM


    You can count me as a "YES" vote on this one also, Johnny!!

    Actually, I'm too young to remember or have cared about him durring the Clinton stuff. So it's hard to say.

    As for now, I have no idea. I'm no consitutional scholar, and I haven't heard/read what he's said about current events. Kinda why I didn't say anything about him... just pointed out YOUR hypocracy.

    As for you lableing me anything... I can't really think of any reason why you thinking anything about me would cause me to care. Sorry... you're not that important to me.

    If you had ever heard me sing you would have already lost your cookies.

    Besides I'm more the Gung Ho type than the Kumbaya type.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Rico:

    Don't worry, I don't know the words for Kumbaya beyond "Kumbaya my love"!

    I did say 'voluntarily'

    Is that so wrong?

    Like Terri Schiavo voluntarily stopped ?!?

    IS MIKE really leaning left, or is he one of those that is RWer to the Extreme, that goes onto message boards like this one, CLAIMING to be liberal, just so that he can concede points to the RWers,

    See, that is a form of propaganda.

    That is how it works,

    Now mike, may not be a RWer, but I have seen him cowtow to the right, I have seen him chastize those on the left, when they score major hits on the right wing propaganda.

    Is mike really a rightie ?

    I dont know for sure, but I DO KNOW that it wouldnt be the first time that a RWer poses as someone from the middle or the left, so that he can agree with the right, making it SEEM that the right has won the point.

    Only time will tell where mike stands, but I have already seen mike pandering to the RWers here.

    Mike, we both posted @ 10:26. We have to quit meeting this way or people will begin to talk.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    BTW ,,,,


    Grammie trying to sell Mike as a GOOD GUY, is just more evidence of the point I was making earlier about Mikes true alliances

    yikes!

    I wouldn't compare those 2 statements.

    you are brave, wise one.

    Anon, what you so charmingly refer to as pandering is called everyday civility by others.

    Its not enough for you that our country is so passionately divided right now? You just want that little something extra mindless and vicious attacks give you?

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Too late Grammie,

    I got pics!

    Anon (at 10:29)...

    You are rolling down a slippery slope... I'd be careful, if I were you...

    Satellite pictures !!!!! Gramie has a cache of Mike's Cuban rocket launchers ! LOL !!!

    Mike,

    You have got a "no-name" on your tail, or is "it" being funny, too?

    Soory, Mike. He is one of yours.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    .. just pointed out YOUR hypocracy.
    -------------------------------------------------

    And I already PROVED that you attempt to paint my post as hypocry is a lie.

    I am glad to know that you were too young, just 10 years ago, to understand anything.

    Further, if you were too young 10 years ago, does that mean you are over 18 now,

    If so, why arent you in the army or marines.

    you support this war,

    are you a coward, ?

    are you afraid of the dont ask dont tell policy ?

    are you a convicted criminal ?

    WHAT is YOUR EXCUSE for not being in IRAQ right now ?

    Keith, I've decided to come back.

    You should have never smoked.

    *******

    That is completely tasteless.

    I dislike KO, too. I don't want him dead.

    You put conservatism to shame.

    Anon 10:27:

    And jus who you might be, and jus how long YOU been on here?

    Go back and take a look at some of my earlier posts before and after the election. I think you'll find I sounded a little bit on the intense side myself at that time.

    One thing I have learned is that everyone on here with average or better IQ from BOTH sides have already heard ALL of the talking points.

    We are not going to end this war tonight on this discussion board. The 'surge' decision has been made, the election is over, and a Constitutional confrontation may or may not be in the offing.

    We will see what happens, meanwhile, I have good friends and family on both sides of the political spectrum in my 'real' life, and I don't hate them for their views either!

    I am not crazy about Bill O' Reilly ... but I don't want to see him in a zoo !!! v v v v

    Miss Manners better watch out too. No Name is obviously trying out for her job.

    If he doesn't get it it will be the fault of that evil Karl OoOoOoOo Rove.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Keith, I've decided to come back.

    You should have never smoked.

    *******

    That is completely tasteless.

    I dislike KO, too. I don't want him dead.

    You put conservatism to shame.

    Posted by: Damian G. at January 10, 2007 10:34 PM

    Well Damian G. get used to it. There are people here who would rather kill than face the truth that Keith has been showing them. It is typical of someone "like Bush" who is not smart enough to have any options but brute force. When they turn out to be weak "like Bush" they resort to idiocy like KC.

    "Basically, my goal is to purge the Earth of all things liberal. First through diplomacy, then by force. I theorise that in the grand scheme of things, that it is truly what Jesus would do. "

    This is what it says on Damian G's website all... Now taht IS a scary religious worldview, don't you think?

    THIS IS RICH COMING FROM A RIGHT WINGER

    ---------------------------------------------------

    called everyday civility by others.

    _______________________________


    Being lectured by a RWer about Civility

    that is rich,.

    The discourse in this country, was part of the REPUBLICAN stratigy of TOM DELAY (your hero).

    that the republicans only can bring up devisive issues at election time, and it is not by accident, but by design. They do it on purpose,

    And now Grammie tries to lecture ANYONE on civility.

    The last few weeks, all we have heard from the Republicans is , cant we all just get along, the mean ole democrats are picking on us,,,,, etc etc ad nuaseum


    Now that they are not in TOTAL CONTROL of the entire government, they start with this whing crying crap

    You Republicans still have the Whitehouse and your precious George Bush as your leader, get used to the feeling of being picked on.

    Or at least everyone needs to see your whining and crying for what it is,

    Damien just doesn't like a woman's right to choose .

    Knew that question was coming.

    I am not army worthy for medical reasons.

    As for being a coward... tough to argue that someone else is a coward, when you won't even list your name. But hey, hypocracy is your strong suit... so keep on, keeping on.

    Imnotblue: Is blood red ?

    Hey, No Name, what you are whining about is called political discourse based on differing opinions. You think RW's should campaign on being Lib Dems.

    No wonder you have a problem distinguising civilty from gratuitous verbal violence.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet Hawkins a.k.a Grammie: No... when Liberals win elections the righters think that they won by being "conservatives".

    Red like my hair. But I think it takes more than that.

    That is the knee-jerk reaction... advocate for war ... and you automatically have to be there ...

    Civility my ass.

    I also advocate good government... but I'm not there either...

    ...yet...

    I am not army worthy for medical reasons.
    --------------------------------------------------------


    This is just amazing, or probably more accurately PATHETIC,

    It seems that ALL of the REPUBLICANS around here, and in general, or disabled or too old, or too woman, or ............

    I think it is pathetic that ALL OF THEM are UNABLE to serve

    and yet they continuall portray themselves as the strong, and brave and patiotic,

    Maybe you are UNABLE to serve, but more than likely it is just the excuse you use here,

    I think that it is that you WONT serve.

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    As for being a coward... tough to argue that someone else is a coward, when you won't even list your name.

    -------------------------------------

    Like IMNOTBLUE is your real name,
    IS IT ?
    NO ONE here is using their real name !

    -------------------------------------------------------

    But hey, hypocracy is your strong suit... so keep on, keeping on.

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    nothing hypocritical about my positions, or my post.
    So you are crippled ?

    ALL OF THESE POOR POOR PATHETIC DISABLED REPUBLICANS

    Well, Donora, I meant civilty from your mouth, but if you consider your ass the primary source for your brain, go for it.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    I like how site/television show monitor said that Olbermann was making Michelle Malkin apologize for her mistake ... when really ... we all know that Michelle Malkin has Hot Air and her podcast and she has a mega ton more power in the blogosphere than Keith Olbermann has on t.v. or in the realm of sports ... yet Olbermann is the one shown as domineering on this website ?!?!?

    not my real name,
    Your thw pinky rainbow flag waiving Stalinsit admireer. You cheer at the death of American and you root for an Islamic victory. You probably have your burka ready!

    That is the knee-jerk reaction... advocate for war ... and you automatically have to be there ...

    --------------------------------------------------


    No not automatically


    But I will say what I said last night,

    There are way too many people willing to send others to fight a war that they say needs to be fought.

    I am glad to see that you agree with Osama Bin Ladens strategies. After all, he did the SAME EXACT THING.

    He sent others to fight a battle that he thought should be fought.

    Too cowardly to do it himself, JUST LIKE "YOU " and all of the other RWers around here.,

    not my real name,
    How's your lover, The Camel doing! You love camels right!

    Wanna bet NMRN?

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Anonymous,
    Don't you wear a picture of Bin Laden on your shirt. Do you jerk off everytime you Mamoud Ahamdinejad on TV. Or you just get excited over a camel?

    Well, Donora, I meant civilty from your mouth, but if you consider your ass the primary source for your brain, go for it.

    Janet Hawkins
    grammie

    -------------------------------------------------

    What happened to the civility you were asking for ?

    probably the same place your worries about civility were a year ago,


    now it seems to me, and MOST AMERICANS that have figured you and your kind out, that your whining and crying for civility, is nothing but begging for mercy.

    And if I have my way, there will be NONE.

    RWers are REAL GOOD at trying to USE the bible when it suits them,

    remember,

    You shall reap what you sew,

    well it is harvest time

    That Walker Bush has such a humungous ego that we have to get rid of some past presidencies just to make room for Bush's ego/ legacy/ stature ... We may have to let go of the memory of Theodore Roosevelt, Grant, and Jefferson.

    If i felt civility towards Democratic ideas was welcome for the last six years than civility would be expected now. It wasn't welcomed, rather it was called terrorist loving moonbats and verything else. So you reap what you sow. Kiss my ass.

    Donora: Do not feel bad about Janet Hawking's rage, she is just upset that there are other women in politics besides her...

    I see Janet is still so concerned who the "good guys group" is .
    This isn't HS Grammie.

    Donora Pa,
    The Left does support Al-Qaeda and Iran. With every American death you guys cheer!

    A$$HOLE (aka pink kitty) said ..


    You cheer at the death of American and you root for an Islamic victory. You probably have your burka ready!

    ------------------------------------------------------


    Where ? When ? Show us.

    You are a pathetic liar.

    Is your ability to lie without any shame shows you were raised wrong ?

    Is your lying ability something you learned, or is it hereditary ?


    now you can prove me wrong, but dont take a sentence or statement out of context,

    I am willing to stand by EVERYTHING I have said on this board,

    So that EVERYONE here will see that you are not LYING THROUGH YOUR TEETH.,

    Show where I expressed either of the sentiments you try to attribute to me,

    Or be know as a lying SOB

    Isn't it funny how the republicans wore out their"If you're against the war, you're for the terrorists crap".
    Now since almost everyone is against the war,they are saying," Hey, maybe we better back off of that shit. People aren't buying any longer !"

    Isn't it funny how the republicans wore out their"If you're against the war, you're for the terrorists crap".
    Now since almost everyone is against the war,they are saying," Hey, maybe we better back off of that shit. People aren't buying any longer !"

    Fox News is already lumping Ahmedenijad in with the enemy......... before we could even have official talks with Iran .

    DP, it was your response and your depiction. I simply wanted to encourage you in your own assessment. I have been trying to take to heart the admonition from the left that we righties need to be more non judgmental.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Donora Pa,
    The Left does support Al-Qaeda and Iran. With every American death you guys cheer!

    Posted by: Red Wolf at January 10, 2007 11:08 PM

    Statements like that take away any posibility that you could ever reach my brain with anything positive. The war is only entertainment and diversion to you.

    Bush's proposal:
    Too little too late.

    and did you notice he's opening another front in the war, with threatening Iran.

    He's done such a great job with Iraq, he's going to double down with Iran.

    God help us all !

    MALL RATS !

    Donora Pa, Anonymous and Bison Burger,
    Asdmitt it you guys love the fact Al-Qaeda and Iranian back groups are killing American troops. Anything so that your allies win. One problem, they got their asses to them by Ethiopia! Hey you win some and lose some! Right?

    Donora Pa,

    I question your brain. The other night I asked you what you were for and you acted like I was accusing your mother of being a harlot. You are unhinged. You are your unhingement.

    I still have enough faith in our military that they would not follow this poor excuse for a leader to Iran right now.

    Take cover, Red Wolf is provoking the natives again!

    Where are Johnny $ and/or r. cox ?!? We have not heard from them yet ?!?!?

    Did anyone notice that Fox News had a little clock up in the corner of the screen with a clock ticking UPWARD, and it said,"Where's their plan ?"

    The "fair and balanced" news station !

    I wonder why they never did that with the Republicans during the past 4 years.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    Wonder why.

    DP, civilty is neither agreement with nor capitulation to other's philosophy. It is using civil language and refraining from ad hominem attacks.

    You might want to try it sometimes. What passes for great conversation in the boy's bathroom in grade school is not civility.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Donora Pa,

    I question your brain. The other night I asked you what you were for and you acted like I was accusing your mother of being a harlot. You are unhinged. You are your unhingement.

    Posted by: Rico at January 10, 2007 11:15 PM

    I answered you and you are the one who hasn't a clue what he is for other than to accuse others of not being for what you are for. Whatever the hell that is.

    Mike,
    The post I wrote wasn't aim at you, Proud to be a liberal or Paul. So don't take it to heart.

    Falls: Thanks ... now I know where Johnny Dollar is ... probably over there running and monitoring that clock for FOX. Perhaps they have a gigantic turning wheel for him.

    Mike, I've noticed when RedWolf gets in high gear he burns out quick if everyone refuses to feed him.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    DP, civilty is neither agreement with nor capitulation to other's philosophy. It is using civil language and refraining from ad hominem attacks.

    You might want to try it sometimes. What passes for great conversation in the boy's bathroom in grade school is not civility.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 10, 2007 11:17 PM

    Please. Be civil if you want. It will impress the hell out of me. But if you consider being a condecending "I'll be civil here and let you figure it out" civil you are deluded.

    civilty is neither agreement with nor capitulation to other's philosophy. It is using civil language and refraining from ad hominem attacks.

    You might want to try it sometimes. What passes for great conversation in the boy's bathroom in grade school is not civility.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie


    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 10, 2007 11:17 PM

    Like when you call people," You're a worm of a man "

    Janet thinks no one notices her hypocrisy.

    REDWOLF (pink kitty ) tried to say that I have been sympathetic towards the 9-11 hijackers, or have shown some sort of support for them, That is just more RW BS,

    What I DID say, was that the RWers around here, ARE NOT ANY BETTER THAN THE 9-11 Hijackers. AS a matter of fact, they are even further down on the evolutionary ladder, they are down with Osama, because they act just like him,

    I am not ashamed of my statements last night, and I STAND by them right now, as a matter of fact, here is my last post from yesturdays post,

    ######################################

    EXCELLENT ATTEMPT AT SPIN KARRIS56
    but your twisting of my words, and attempt to change the meaning of what I said, is just more decietful right wing lies.

    Since apparently you WONT understand what I said, let me reiterate, for those that are reading this thread, and may be confused by your lies about what I said,

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    "So you have more respect for maniacs who kill innocent people,torture,and use people as shields to fight .If these real cowards were as brave as you seem to think they are they would get out in the open and attack like men instead of hiding behind others.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    What is the difference between the 9-11 hijackers and the right wing republicans that HIDE behind out troops, sending them to fight a war that the right wingers say needs to be fought.

    None,

    Further, I did not say that the 9-11 terrorist were brave, nor did I provide ANY compliments to them. I hate their guts and am glad that they are dead.

    But at the same time, I say that the RWers that support this war, but wont fight it, are bigger COWARDS than the 9-11 hijackers.

    As far as my attributed RESPECT. I have NO RESPECT for the 9-11 hijackers, NONE, nada, zero, it doesnt exist,

    But at the same time, I have LESS RESPECT for those here, that would send our troops to go and fight a war, that they themselves would not. Talk about HIDING behind others, using others as a SHIELD, a "willingness to kill INNOCENTS" . That is EXACTLY what the RWers here are doing. Including yourself,

    On a personal note, I dont believe that you ever served in the Armed Forces. Because someone that had served, would understand the current attitude of a lot of the soldiers, marines, and sailors, that cant stand the civilians back here, that DONT CARE that the war was started on lies. That they (the military personel ) are being sacrificed by the RWers here, and they are tired of hearing the rhetiric of "we support the troops" when it has become quite apparent, that the RWers dont give a DAMN about the troops.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    but you have more respect for them than your fellow americans who you know nothing of what is in their heart ,except that they have a different opinion than you

    --------------------------------------------------------

    One parting shot, and trying to spin what I said, you really are a decietful little punk,

    And I dont care to call you or anyone like you my fellow americans. Hell, Timothy McVeigh was an american, but a scumbag and a terrorist. And there are MANY more examples I could give.

    I consider "so called americans " like yourself, to be the worst sorts of cowards and traitors to america. You are not willing to take a stand, you are not willing to fight your own fights, and you are perfectly willing to HIDE behind, and use our troops as a shield.

    If you support this war, and are willing to send out troops to fight it,when you yourself WILL NOT fight, then you arent even as good as the 9-11 terrorist, you are more like Osama Bin Laden.

    He wanted to use others to fight, but was unwilling to do any fighting himself. So on the evolutionary ladder, you are not even as high on the ladder as the 9-11 terrorist, you are down there with Osama, and just a tiny notch above child molesters,
    ################################################


    Yep, Todays RWers with Osama Bin Laden, and only one rung up from Child molesters,

    ****TRIVIA THE LIKES OF NOSTRADAMUS****

    Here's the ultimate scenario:

    You have a country born smack in the middle of a sectarian battleground/ancient religious melting pot. This country just so happens to sit on top of the largest suppy of "industrial revolution juice" required by a thirsty remote country on the other side of the world.

    What happens to the guy who uses the powers of that remote country across the world to collapse the feable walls that kept these combatants apart?

    What happens to the guy (& the remote country) who is responsible for starting the biggest meltdown of the sectarian states of the entire region?

    Educate Me.

    DP, and anyone else, yes I plan on using basic civility here and everywhere. You do what you are comfortable with.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    This madman you call a president still thinks we're going to win in Iraq.
    By adding 15% more troops in the middle of a civil war will only bring more American & Iraqi deaths, and accomplish, NOTHING.

    At the end of the day, victory in Iraq, for Bush, is like pornography -- you can't really describe it, but, he assures us, we'll know it when we see it. Or, more accurately, when our children and grandchildren see it.
    George Bush is a coward !

    DP, and anyone else, yes I plan on using basic civility here and everywhere. You do what you are comfortable with.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 10, 2007 11:26 PM

    Best of luck to you. You have set yourself up now you understand? It's like me telling everyone I am quiting smoking one day and then bumming a smoke the next though. We shall see huh.

    Like when you call people," You're a worm of a man "

    Janet thinks no one notices her hypocrisy.

    Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2007 11:21 PM

    I'm sure some think that. That is why I'm always prepared. Below is the post in its entirety. You think what you will.

    "Coward, please forgive me for misinterpreting your remarks. If I had known you were excluding you and yours because you are high class waiters and busboys I would have reacted differently.

    I missed the 'trailor park trash' comment you made. But now that I understand you only include 'five dollar trailer park trash' immortalized by James Carville I promise to honor the distinction in any future insul, uh remarks.

    What can I say? I have gone from, and I qoute you,:


    a 'fat bald male republican'

    to a 'really old hag controlled by her backwater husband'

    to 'a low life who demonstrates a perverse thrill in portraying yourself as someone's grandma'

    to a 'teaming up with young men who enjoy ganging up individuals'

    to a practitioner of 'a sick desire to spew the hate your parents probably taught you'

    to a chameleon 'switching back and forth from innocent grandma to attack dog'

    to a ' gangster grandma Janet'

    and, finally, to the denouement ' a poor uneducated white trash hate monger out fishing for a justification to express your hate.'

    What can I say? I guess they don't make little old gray haired grandmas they way they used to.

    Of course, they also don't make heros the same way either. Heros used to be the Audie Murphys, Alvin C Yorks, Sam Waldenburgs, Meis Geis and untold and uncounted thousands who didn't blow their own horns and direct their scorn at others.

    I admit freely that I AM NOT A HERO. I have unbounded respect for true heros. Sorry, Coward. Calling yourself a hero because you are doing the exact same thing that three hundred million Americans can do with impunity does NOT make you a hero.

    Sure, you could go to Sadr City and, using any identity you desire, say what you are saying here and be safe. They might even call you a hero. Unless you truly desire to be a hero, don't contradict them. You will very likely wind up a hero with your body separated from your head with a rusty knife.

    I stand by my original assessment of you. You are a contemptible little worm of a man.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at November 16, 2006 5:50 PM"

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Like a serial killer who says that's it, I won't kill again. Come on Janet. You must do what you must. Condecend. Insult. Ignore. That's the order isn't it?

    Whatever you say DP. We all know when we do or don't live up to the standards we impose on ourselves.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Mike,

    I got it! You are funny.

    Janet has no answers for her failing and flailing party and her incompetent president.
    Thus she gets frustrated and lashes out at people who tell the truth.
    And then requests "civility" from others.

    Janet thinks we don't notice.

    Cheer up Janet. You are an inteligent woman. You are allowed to not live up to your standards once in while. That's part of the fun of it all. Who sets the standards anyway?

    I kind of like your poetic way of insulting, Grammie. You could easily hang with the House of Commons across the waters (or is it Lords).

    As I was watching Bush's monotone desperate speech tonite, I kept getting flashbacks to Lyndon Johnson and then Nixon talking about escalating that war and peace with honor.

    Sent shivers down my spine.

    WE don't ever seem to learn from history.

    For both wars:

    For what was gained, for what was lost !

    Janet Hawkins


    Did you use the term "trailer park trash" ?


    I am asking, cause I see it in the above post.

    Is that what you said?


    Well let me commnent.

    If you did use that term, do you know where it comes from ?

    Trailer park trash, is a term that locals used to use to describe people like me and my family,

    I remember my father whipping the hell out of a smartass who used the term too loudly (so that dad could hear it )

    It happened in Harker Heights, a little community right outside of Fort Hood texas. They were locals, refrering to the military families living in trailer parks,

    It is kind of funny though, military families have for years, used mobile homes, because when dad got transfer orders, like my dad did, it was easy enough to pack up the trailer, hook it to the family station wagon, and go to the next duty station,

    That very scenario happened more than 6 times before I entered grade school.

    Actually 7 if you take into account that two of the moves were to and from Germany, where we lived ON BASE. But as soon as we got back, it was back into the trailer.

    People like you CLAIM to support the troops, and then you use terminology that is VERY derogatory to military families.

    Is this your version of civility and supporting the troops ?

    Go to hell !

    Anon, bring up a point or question stripped of your assumptions and interpretations posited as fact and I'll be glad to respond.

    I don't attempt to answer questions posed so that any answer is an acquiesence to the assumptions of the questioner.

    Anon asks 'how can you support that failed flailing party and incompetent president'. An accusation posing as a question with its own builtin conclusion that you can't and if you do you are__________ fill in your perjorative.

    Play fair and you might get others to play with you.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    a double dose of "go to hell" from me too ,Janet
    Hawkins AKA grammie.

    You can't run from your karma.

    "I don't attempt to answer questions posed so that any answer is an acquiesence to the assumptions of the questioner."

    Only pretentious a--holes speak like that.

    Do you resemble that point ?

    I don't attempt to answer questions posed so that any answer is an acquiesence to the assumptions of the questioner.

    ----------------------------------------


    Ok .

    Then simply answer this question.

    point blank,

    Did you use the term trailer park trash ?

    simple question, requires a simple answer.

    Tell me why Lawrence O'Donnell gets a pass on Scarboro for explaining that in reality, there will only be 5,000 extra troops because the guys have to sleep on a rotating basis and they are going to be spread around the whole of Iraq. Scarboro quietly tried to hint that 4,000 were going to Anbar Province and the rest to Baghdad. But he continued to try to explain the "math." Besides the obvious (they are not going to be spread around Iraq), how much sleep does he think these guys are going to get? I know this is an Olby site but I guess it's the free pass given all the time to the O'Donnells. Even Buchanon sat silently.

    Did anyone see Matthews/Olbermann interview Russert and Brian Williams? M/O basically blew their comments out of proportion concerning the Iranian issue. They tried to bait Obama previously. Even though Obama did not see anything wrong with the carrier sent as a warning to Iran/Syria to stop causing problems in Iraq (he just stated that talks should not be off the table), he was greatly thanksed.

    grammie, you can ignore the question if you want to, but I am going to continue posting the question on a daily basis here.

    You may as well answer.

    "Janet Hawkins


    Did you use the term "trailer park trash" ?


    I am asking, cause I see it in the above post."

    No, I used it in response to Coward Watch using it. I haven't even read the rest of your post yet but I will as soon as I post this. Neither did I castigate and belittle waitresses. Again I was responding to Coward Watch.

    What you see there is the tip of the iceberg. We can include constant accusations that I was inbred, my mother was a passed out slut whose boyfriend indoctrinated me and much much more.

    Calling Coward a contemptible little worm of a man is not an ad hominem attack. It is a statement of fact based on weeks of having his filth thrown my way and to others.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet speaks like the Tin Man did immediately after he realized he had a brain.
    Remember that scene ?

    The words came blurting out like diarrhea of the mouth.

    Her flowery verbage is funny, though. So many words, so little sense.

    No, I used it in response

    -----------------------------------

    NO ?

    And then "I used it "

    let me try this again,

    did you use the term trailer park trash ?

    because if you did, my opinion of you just went down a little further.

    Did you use the term "trailer park trash" ?


    I am asking, cause I see it in the above post."

    No, I used it in response to Coward Watch using it.

    riiiiiiiiiiiiiight !

    Janet used it before she didn't use it.

    Nice explanation, Janet.

    You related to John Kerry ?

    "Trailer park trash" has evolved to encompass a kind of attitude. I doubt that Grammie had any intention of insulting military families who lived in trailers to accommodate their transient lifestyle. (Although the Tin man example was kind of humorous)

    Anon, by now you see that I answered you before reading the rest of the post. When I called Coward on it he blythely informed me that he was referring to low class culture of the clan Denny's waitresses and he lived in a trailor park but but was not trailor park trash like I was because he lives in a high class park.

    Thank you for the history. I don't THINK or TALK that way.

    My Dad worked for The War Dept which became the DOD. We were supposed to move to Germany in the very early 50's but my Dad decided not to go.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Sharon,

    "Trailer park trash" has evolved to encompass a kind of attitude.

    It was an atttitude way back when. It was an attitude that said that anyone that lived in the trailer parks were trash.

    I was living in a trailer park because my dad was serving his country,

    And the trailer park remark, is probably why I waited until my military service was done, before I found a wife and started a family.

    Further, I dont care about your assurances about what Grammie "MEANT"

    If she used the term, then she has just proven the point I have been making since I got to this forum.,

    Right Wing a--holes DONT GIVE A DAMN about the troops.

    Only so much as they are expendable, to fight wars that they themselves wont.

    Is Bush dishonest or deluded?

    It's interesting seeing Janet Hawkins AKA Grammie backed up into a corner and made to account for her own words, for a change.

    Not buying her "playing the victim" excuse though.

    We were supposed to move to Germany in the very early 50's but my Dad decided not to go.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    Seems to be a common theme with you republicans


    I spent 3 days in an underground bomb shelter in Manheim Germany during the "Missles of October " crisis. Remember the little US/ Russia showdown over missiles in Cuba


    I am glad that you managed to avoid that too,


    but in the end, no matter what your motive, you did use the term, so once again,

    GO TO HELL, and hopefully soon'

    Anon, I hope we sooner or later quit crossing. I used the term in a sarcastic way to Coward in response to his calling me and others trailer park trash.

    With all the anons I don't know which one is you whose Dad was military. So I will say it again.

    I DO NOT THINK OR TALK IN THOSE TERMS.

    That is why I consider calling Coward a contemptible little worm of a man an accurate statement, not an ad hominem attack.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "TV Viewer, are you getting the message?"

    Genius. Everybody on this board can argue all you like on this board about the President or Iraq, but one thing we can all agree on: Mr. Cox is an extremely witty writer that puts Mister Olbermann's blatant bias is lucid, hilarious perspective. I look forward to reading the reviews every night. Kudos.

    Is Bush dishonest or deluded?

    Posted by: Donora Pa at January 11, 2007 12:15 AM


    Both. He has no credibility left with the American people.
    There was a demonstration against the escalation outside the White House tonite.
    I just got an email of one being organized in my area.

    George Bush finally succeeded at something.
    He's bringing this country together( against him)

    Anon, I hope we sooner or later quit crossing. I used the term in a sarcastic way to Coward in response to his calling me and others trailer park trash.

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    then let me be REASONABLE and CIVIL, IF you did not mean to use it with the intent of insult, then I can accept that


    But I will say this,


    ANYONE, that uses that term in front of me, or even out of my view, is a TOTAL punk and a--hole


    Is that clear enough ?

    I hope so.

    Anon, you are telling me to go to hell because I used an offensive term to deride and call down someone who used it and meant to offend with it.

    If you feel that way and don't understand what happened there is nothing I can do about it other than to say you have a strange way of judging a situation. Your beef is with Coward Watch.

    Very nice jab. My father, a DOD civilian employee somehow doesn't live up to your standards. Nothing he can do about that.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Both. He has no credibility left with the American people.
    There was a demonstration against the escalation outside the White House tonite.
    I just got an email of one being organized in my area.

    George Bush finally succeeded at something.
    He's bringing this country together( against him)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    The RW ers have NO CREDIBILITY any more, MOST Americans see them spewing their BS at the water cooler, in pubs, resturaunts, and internet chat rooms, and are not buying their bullshit.

    And it is not going to get any better for the RW ers, just as soon as we start finding out the TRUTH about how and why the Bush administration started this war, the BIG PICTURE of the graft and corruption of the REPUBLICAN congress is exposed, and many other questions yet to be answered,

    Yep, the right wingers are in a real spot. When they start trying to defend themselves against all of the oversight and investigations, the American people are not gonna believe a word they say,

    The true coolade drinkers will still defend them, but we all know how they feel about the TRUTH. It is just a campaign slogan. Like honor, integrity,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Anon, be my guest with Coward if he ever shows up again. If I had known what was going to happen tonight I would have let him do it with impunity and not called him down about it.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Cee will differ.

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

    Your beef is with Coward Watch.

    Very nice jab. My father, a DOD civilian employee somehow doesn't live up to your standards. Nothing he can do about that.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    -------------------------------------------------


    I tried civility, and you spit on it,

    Screw you and your whole family.

    The true coolade drinkers will still defend them, but we all know how they feel about the TRUTH. It is just a campaign slogan. Like honor, integrity,,,,,,,,,,,,

    and Mission Accomplished !

    Anon,

    It is amazing how you can read everyone's mind and know their motives. Your outrageous statements dishonor those serving. BTW, you aren't trailer park trash but you have a trashy mouth. Your Gestapo tactics are truly disgusting. Go ahead and write a 1000 word diatribe using your trashy mouth. I won't be spending my time crying over it!

    Janet, I guess your dad, being the coward that he was, is your EXAMPLE by which you judge who should and should not be deployed to Iraq.

    Makes perfect sense,

    Your dad got out of going to Germany, for whatever reason (coward) and now it is perfectly OK with you to send troops to fight a war that you, and yours wont.

    BTW, Germany was the front line in the war against communism, and Korea, but I rather enjoyed my time there, because dad and mom never told us just how much danger we were in.

    Your outrageous statements dishonor those serving.

    --------------------------------------------


    You are a liar,


    you are the one that doesnt mind sending husband, wives, sons, daughters, and fathers to die.


    For you to, in any way, try to say that my statements are derogatory to the troops is total bullshit.

    You on the other hand, and those like you, dont care about the troops, or their families.


    Here is your attitude.

    Bush wants to send MORE troops to Iraq, Sure, send some more.


    You have already proven yourself a liar, and I WAS willing to accept your explanation that you did not mean insult when you used the term trailer park trash.

    That moment passed, because I see now that you did mean it as an insult,


    you just got out of the hospital, why dont you just go a head and die.

    Sharon, after Anon responded to my first post the way he did I had a suspicion that it might have been a put up job. I stuck with it in case he didn't read what I wrote correctly.

    I think I was just had. If so, wasn't the first time and it won't be the last time.

    Perhaps we should refuse to respond to the anons. I know I can identify quite a few of the regular posters here by their consistent style. Can't do that with most of the anons. I wouldn't be surprised to find out if some flip back and forth using several names interspersed with anon.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Stop wishing death on Grammy. That wasn't even her. You are so caught up in her hatred you can't even get the name of the commenter correct. It is Sharon, the 42 year old who is "conveniently" not old enough to serve. Yes, Olbylogic.

    I think Bush is more deluded than dishonest, although he is that too. I think it was some evangelical preachers that got to him and told him his purpose was to be some warrior or something. He can't see beyond them.

    Grammy,

    I agree. Annon hammered me last night and he doesn't say anything new. I have been getting to bed too late the past few nights. My husband is working two jobs and I am homeschooling so it is refreshing to follow the debates her for a worthwhile distraction. Nite!

    You ignore what you want to, you spin things any way you want, but the fact still remains that you and your ilk will remain willing to send more members of the military, to fight bleed and die, for what ?

    At this point, it seems to be so that your president can save face.

    Willing to sacrifice troops, so that Bush's legacy isnt hurt ?

    If that is support for the troops, please go support someone else for a while,

    You SUPPORT is LITERALLY KILLING more American troops,

    Sharon, I think he is referring to my post to you last night saying that I had been in the hospital all of April, May and a good part of June.

    If I didn't die then you aren't going to push me over the edge.

    I think I'll stick around and be my same old lovable self for a while longer. It's so much fun. Sparkling conversation and the goodwill of others. What more could I want?


    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    You SUPPORT is LITERALLY KILLING more American troops,

    Posted by: Anonymous at January 11, 2007 12:52 AM

    Yes, but they always come back with we have not been attacked since 911, as if this justifies what has happened to over 3000 American servicemen which Bin Laden could only have dreamed was posible before Iraq. They don't get that they are playing right into their hands. They aren't as smart as they think. That is obvious to most but not to them.

    You are so caught up in her hatred .....


    ... for the troops
    ... for America
    ... for anyone that disagrees with the RW mantra
    ... who else, I guess it depends

    ------------------------------------------------

    you can't even get the name of the commenter correct.

    --------------------------------------------------

    You are right, she has been on an anti-troop kick, and I mistook your lie, for just another of hers.

    So to you, I will just refer you to my post above,

    Why dont you show me one place where my post have dishonored the troops ?

    Becauee you cant.

    Why dont you tell me from your vast military experience, just exactly how military personel and their families feel ?

    Can you answer either of those ?

    Anon 12:52:

    I am and have always been against the war myself, but:

    WHY are you so full of venom? Your posts sound like you think these people just murdered your sister!

    The election is over and the President, along with Congress will determine what happens now. Nobody posting on this board started this war and nobody posting on this board has the power to stop it.

    This is my last response, Anon. I live in a military community. Last election, this community voted Republican (yes, even for Santorum- according to published election results.) We have had poster boards with pictures of family members who are serving posted at our church. No one has
    questioned anyone's patriotism for not serving in the military at this time. Tell you what, I'll post a copy of your remarks and get their reaction. (AS far as dishonoring the troops- well, wishing someone who has been ill to die in the name of supporting the troops, for instance) Adios!

    Yes, but they always come back with we have not been attacked since 911, as if this justifies what has happened to over 3000 American servicemen which Bin Laden could only have dreamed was posible before Iraq. They don't get that they are playing right into their hands. They aren't as smart as they think. That is obvious to most but not to them.
    -----------------------------------------------------------


    yeah, and they support the troops SO much (sarcasm intended ) that they want to make sure a keep the tax cuts,

    how about increasing taxes for the wealthies 2%, and setting up College accounts for every member of the military that has been disabled or killed,

    "You pinko commie socialist fag"

    How about closing the tax loop holes that corporations use to avoid taxes, and provide free housing for all of the troops that have been disabled or killed, or their dependants for the rest of their life

    "You liberal sociallist clinton loving george bush hating jerk commy pinko commy fag"


    I could go on, but since all of the RW ers seem to have cut and run from this forum, the republican discourse must continue. Am I close as to how they respond.

    Mike, I think they would be more sanguine if I had murdered their sister but agreed with them about GWB et al.

    Someone called it BDS, Bush Derangement Syndrome. Makes as much sense as anything else that could explain such over the top behavior.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie


    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie


    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Your posts sound like you think these people just murdered your sister!

    -------------------------------------------

    Almost right, my brother is in a hospital in San Antonio right now, my son is in iraq with his other uncle. Two of my nephews are there, one from either side of the family, and 2 brothers in law and anther nephew, are about to be recalled right now, because of this surge.


    And finally, my son, against my advice, enlisted 3 months ago.


    So you are right to an extent, I have issues with all of these cowards that wanted this war, and want right now to escallate this war.

    I am too old and tired to re-enlist, but I can carry on with the fight right here.

    Am I being militant, you damn right, guess it comes from growing up in the military, serving in the military, and having so much "Blood" in this fight.

    Anon if I die will that make you feel better. Not volunteering, mind you, just asking since you made the wish for my death.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    what, I'll post a copy of your remarks and get their reaction. (AS far as dishonoring the troops- well, wishing someone who has been ill to die in the name of supporting the troops, for instance)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------


    I wish people like you and her would quit supporting the troops, because you are killing them.

    Anon if I die will that make you feel better. Not volunteering, mind you, just asking since you made the wish for my death.

    -------------------------------------------------------


    at least there would be one less person back here supporting sending MORE TROOPS,

    hell, all of the RW ers that show your same kind of support could die and I wouldnt give damn

    Grammie,
    Two apologies. First for spelling Grammie incorrectly. Secondly, fatigue made me type to annon "being caught up in her hatred"' I meant "your" hatred- that is to him... so sorry. I am going to bed. ANon is angry because his son signed up. He is projecting his anger at us. So, it makes sense now. This time it is goodnight.

    ANon is angry because his son signed up. He is projecting his anger at us. So, it makes sense now

    -------------------------------------------


    Its not confusion on my part, I would still be as angry at the people back here, chanting "WE SUPPORT THE TROOPS" , when you really dont give a damn about them,

    Your lies and hypocracy, and the fact that young men and women will be dying to save your presidents legacy,

    And then YOU take every advantage, or better opportunity, to portray anyone that does not agree with you or your president, as being anti-troops,.

    What a sick pice of shit you and your kind are,

    I could go on, but since all of the RW ers seem to have cut and run from this forum, the republican discourse must continue. Am I close as to how they respond.

    Posted by: Anonymous at January 11, 2007 1:10 AM

    Your right on the button.

    Sharon,

    ANon is angry because his son signed up
    ---------------------------------


    one more note, I am proud of my son, He made his own decision, against my advice, but I am proud that he wants to go over to try to help his relatives and friends, and family of friends.

    That is what I was talking about last night when I said people like you did not have a clue about why soldiers are enlisting.

    One final note, my son right before he left for boot camp, told a RW a--hole in a resturant, that he wasnt going for him, or his family, or any of you RW a--holes, he was going because his friends and family needed the support.

    So see, even at 18 he knows the difference in people like you, and those that really support the troops.

    Most soldiers would spit on you if you expressed your views, because they know that people like you dont give a damn about them.

    (why am I bothering?...) I, SHaron, never said that you are anti-troop. Without going through a long explanation, once my country went to war, I wanted the best outcome. It seems to me that the troops want a chance to win. As Mike said, I have no power to prolong or stop the war. The Democrats do at this point. I believe in your right to oppose the war. The spiritual Father of the Church (Pope John Paul II at the time) opposed the war. My belief was that once our servicemen and women were there, give them a chance to make their service mean something other than defeat. President Bush tonight (to me) indicated that if Maliki doesn't get things under control this time around, we're out. I hope and pray for success. If this fails, then God help us. It is going to be a mess.

    If this fails, then God help us. It is going to be a mess.

    Posted by: sharon at January 11, 2007 1:48 AM

    Almost four years later and it finally dawns on some people the risk going to Iraq was. Yes, if this fails God help us was the right attitude from the start. But no, that wasn't even a thought. Shock and awe em. They will kiss our feet and give us chocolate and flowers. These same people now want to be trusted with their point of view after being so blind to the consequences of invading and occupying a foreign country.

    AFter reading your last comment, why did I bother? Somehow I can't believe that after reading what I just wrote, that most soldiers would spit on me. BTW, I never stated any reason as to why your son signed up. You're the one who supplies motives for people. I just noted your anger that he did sign up, for whatever his reasons were. I never said you were angry at him.

    Sharon

    never said that you are anti-troop

    -----------------------------------------------------
    How about this
    -------------------------------

    AS far as dishonoring the troops- well, wishing someone who has been ill to die in the name of supporting the troops, for instance

    -----------------------------------------

    You tried to say that my statement would be a dishonor to the troops.

    Those are your words


    as far as how you feel about ANYTHING else , I really dont give a damn, You are just like all the other RW ers around here.


    The president wants to send 20000 more troops, your kind replies, hell yes, send 40000.

    You dont care how many die. And dont give me the crap about there is nothing we can do to stop it,

    You better look around, because your president, after November is trying to do his damndest to get us out, but one more thing is more important to him, saving his legacy.

    So that is the reason for the surge. and all of you gungho RWers is cheering him on.

    But one thing is for sure, people like you are becoming the minority, you are becoming the oddity, and those of you that insist on continuing in this pursuit of Bushs legacy, will soon find out just how much WE can do to stop this war.

    "What a sick pice of shit you and your kind are,"

    Okay, anon...slow your roll there. We can disagree about POLICY and how this government is run (lord knows Grammie, sharon and I have gone at each other lately). But loosing the anger DOESN'T help.

    I was like you. I thought I had to be the biggest bad-ass around. That I had to yell and curse and call people names just to make my point. THE only thing I learned is that an attitude like that invites only derision and scorn.

    We CAN discuss things in a "semi-civil" tone. Will insults get hurled? Probably, but I'd rather have a debate than a diatribe any day of the week.

    On the speech: I agree with Michael Crowley's analysis of the situation. President Bush has way too much bet and is in too deep a hole. All he has left is the "Iran" card - that's why the second carrier group was moved up, to be a "buffer" against any funny business Iran tried.

    So if we do the "surge" and it flops, does Bush play his last card?

    (AGain, why do I bother?) I never controlled the decision to go to war. After we were at war, I supported a victory. Once the country was invaded, there was no turning back. That's where I am and have been. If the Iraqis don't want it bad enough, we need to get out. Last year, I would have said give it more time. Now there has been time. But an all out failure is going to be a disaster.

    I just noted your anger that he did sign up
    ----------------------

    you tried to portray it that way,

    And spitting on you is just the tip of the iceberg to borrow a phrase.

    And its not just a few of the troops, there is an overwhelming feeling amoungst the troops.

    They know what people like you are about and they are fed up with it.

    You trust what you read or hear on the news about how the troops feel.

    I was at an event at Ft Hood last summer, and heard a sargent reminding his troops, that to say anything derogatory about Bush, or the war, would be considered "Insubordnation"

    I told him I wasnt in the army any more, and that if he would meet me off post, I would be more than happy to tell him how I felt, and would explain to him what I knew about his mother and animal husbandry.

    He did not take me up on the offer, and then later someone told me, that he had been sent over by an officer to remind the troops.,

    so see, there is consent amoung the troops. and in some cases, they are threatened with court martial if they express it.

    so dont tell me what you hear on the news or read in a paper,

    hell, the only recouse a trooper has, is to keep his mouth shut.

    I said you were dishonoring the troops by your abusive behavior, not that your position dishonors the troops. Hindsight, there should have been more debate before the decision to go to war. I do agree with that. It didn;t happen that way. This is where we are now. About the playing of the last card- I didn't get that indication from Russert and Williams (who got to speak privately with the pres) but Olby and Matthews did. I guess you would have to read the transcript because I couldn't give it in a nutshell here.

    "Once the country was invaded, there was no turning back. ...But an all out failure is going to be a disaster."

    Posted by: sharon at January 11, 2007 2:01 AM"
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Exactly and that failure is George Bush, the disaster is the Iraqi people's hell on earth our war has created there. You say once the country was invaded there was no turning back. Well the turning back occurs every time another American soldier dies there. The "no turning back" is code for "never admit you miscalculated". That is what the Republicans on this page are all about.

    Denial

    And spitting on you is just the tip of the iceberg to borrow a phrase.

    And its not just a few of the troops, there is an overwhelming feeling amoungst the troops.

    If troops read what I have said here, is my life truly in danger? I have never felt threatened at this site, but I am feeling a little uneasy by you now. I think I will take this up with some military people I know who live in the community. (these comments)

    My opinions are not based on yours or anyone else's approval or disapproval.

    Nor do I base my actions on a poll of those who feel that somehow they should be in charge because they or their relatives or their friends have done more or sacrificed more than others. Special rights and justification for anything you say or do.

    There is always someone out there who will be able to one up you. Are you then honor bound to follow them and ignore your own beliefs.

    Its a cop out and an excuse to vent your spleen at others. If it wasn't this that you used as justification it would be something else. You know everything that others think and feel better than they do and by God you're going to tell them and expose them to the world.

    You don't get a pass from me.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Sharon, intimidation like this is par for the course for certain types of people.

    Proudly proclaiming the vicious insults hurled at a soldier who said something he didn't like is all the same to the invective he spews here. He supports the troops as long as the troops kow tow to him.

    I wouldn't worry about him at all.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Sharon

    never said that you are anti-troop"
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Noting more despicable than the fabrication of "not supporting troops" and the even worse non sequitur, "I support our troops"

    Who the hell doesn't support the men and woman giving their time, their limbs, and even their lives in the line of duty to our nation?

    The idea that stating your support for our troops somehow puts you at a moral or ethical high ground with those who protest an illegal war, is ludicrist. Obviously those who want our soldiers back home in one piece are the ones who support our troops the most. Claiming you want victory means nothing unless you are the one on the front lines making the biggest sacrifices.

    Calling the war illegal or immoral says nothing about a person's feelings about our soldiers. Claiming that it implies a lack of support for our troops is nothing more than quoting Sean Hannity. And is it is pure bullshit.

    Buffalo,

    It was not just the people on this site that initially supported the war but the country. That's why those in power were afraid to go against the tide. I like many people, really didn't think about sectarian violence or Zarqaqi, any of that. I didn't do research on the Middle East. There wasn't a debate and with so much support, I trusted in the decision. (I didn't even have the internet then). Then, as I have said for the millionth time, I wanted the U.S. to win. I still do. That has been my position. (I am glad Saddam is out of power). I can't inject myself back in time.

    My opinions are not based on yours or anyone else's approval or disapproval.

    In other words no matter what anyone else thinks or has experienced, learned or was enlightened, you reserve the right to ignore their opinion and go on thinking that you are not giving them a pass. Soldiers or even Generals thoughts are only to be listened to in order to seem civil, then dismissed. Even if only yourself, your mate and your dog support you that is enough. Sounds like another one. The one that now says the responsibilty is his. Yes it is. And the reason he didn't see the truth in front of his face is because he didn't listen. Polls? Who cares what the American people want. Elections? I am the decider!

    "invective he spews"

    "grannie" using the thesaurus,

    that would be "invective spew"

    using an adective as a noun can be corrected do to the fact that you love to correct others spelling.

    "Polls? Who cares what the American people want. Elections? I am the decider!

    Posted by: Donora Pa at January 11, 2007 2:23 AM"

    Funny how the Bushies here are exactly the same as their leader (he's not my leader).

    Yes, I reserve my right to think and decide for myself. If that upsets you and others to the point that I see here thats your problem, not mine.

    You will excuse me if I don't lay down and die because of some anonymous posters on the internet.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Buffalo,

    Claiming you want victory means nothing unless you are the one on the front lines making the biggest sacrifices.

    I guess I just lack your intelligence, but if I do want victory, how am I supposed to say that? I can't say I don't want victory. So I can have no opinion because I am not on the front lines? I can't hope and pray for the soldiers or speak well of them and their sacrifices? I can't donate any money for their needs or make any gesture of support because I am not there? I can't get angry when men who have been charged with crimes while in service are judged as guilty before due process?

    that is "due" to the fact, not "do"

    "You will excuse me if I don't lay down and die because of some anonymous posters on the internet.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 11, 2007 2:30 AM"

    No you twit - it the soldiers who lay down and die at the hands of fools like you who vote for and empower idiots like Bush and Cheney the political chutzpah to fabricate a reason to invade a nation that never attacked us or ever threaten us.

    Then you come to places like this and pretend to be pretentious about your ignorance. I think you understand why people like myself are repulsed by vermin like you!

    Show us one more night how you will refuse to discuss the innocent dead Iraqi people as though they are less valuable than WASP's like you! Who buddy up with Klansmen like Redwolf who proudly spews racist garbage with no outrage from you!

    You are a joke and embarrassment to this nation!

    and that is others' spelling (note the apostrophe) We can get really ridiculous- it's 2:30 a.m. Give it a rest. I gotta go, while keeping in mind, forgive others as I have been forgiven ...

    Sharon you just don't understand. That omniscience and infallibilty on the great issue of this new century leads to perfection in other aspects of life. Spelling and grammer to name two.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "I guess I just lack your intelligence, but if I do want victory, how am I supposed to say that? I can't say I don't want victory.
    Posted by: sharon at January 11, 2007 2:32 AM"

    God dam are you ever dense. There is no f---ing victory when your nation illegally invades a nation and destroys it. You think if I went out and burned down my next door neighbors one room house and he rebuilt it into a three bedroom house that I was somehow not going to prison when the police caught up with me?

    How the hell to do people like you get from day to day? It is like you never learned the concept of right and wrong. Do you even know how many men, woman and children have died in Iraq since we invaded their nation? More than a hundred thousand.

    You ever go to bed at night and wonder what it is like to live in a war zone with a dead mother buried under ruble in the next room. You wonder what it is like to be the American soldier who has to go to sleep knowing these children all around him?

    What you think is all you have to do is say a prayer and wish for victory and you are somehow exempt from having to be empathetic.

    Look up the word and review it. Empathy is something Bush supporters may claim to understand but that is not the same as being capable of it.

    You mean those innocent Iraqis who are being slaughtered by the same type of person that claims all morality and righteousness to themselves alone.

    You talk the same game that those animals are playing.

    More a difference of degree, rather than a difference of kind.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Sharon you just don't understand. That omniscience and infallibilty on the great issue of this new century leads to perfection in other aspects of life. Spelling and grammer to name two.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "That omniscience and infallibility on the great issue of this new century leads to perfection in other aspects of life."

    Sharon, this is the make up of your constituents?

    I rest my case!

    DP, you have the stage to yourself.

    Nothing short of capitulation or death and suffering for the wrong sort as you see it will satisfy you.

    Who knows. You all may get your wish and lightning will strike me in my sleep

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "You mean those innocent Iraqis who are being slaughtered by the same type of person that claims all morality and righteousness to themselves alone."
    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 11, 2007 2:49 AM
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Sounds to me like the little old lady is saying that innocent people are being slaughtered in Iraq. Could this be? I don't think so. She would never admit that anything George Bush had a hand in ended up in having anything to do with innocent people dying. After all Jesus is George Bush's favorite person. Being Christian and having anything to do with letting murdering thugs take over a nation George Bush invaded is not possible.

    Camels through the eye of needle. Wolves in sheep clothing!

    Your rhetoric is empty garble

    Who knows. You all may get your wish and lightning will strike me in my sleep

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 11, 2007 2:55 AM

    Oh my, we are being a martyr now aren't we. I don't wish you a lightning strike Janet. I wish you would just let go of trying to defend a president and a policy that led to the murder of a lot of innocent folks, and corrupted a lot of well meaning Americans into defending a war crime. Have a good night Janet.

    From not my real name" EXCELLENT ATTEMPT AT SPIN KARRIS56
    but your twisting of my words, and attempt to change the meaning of what I said, is just more decietful right wing lies." I said I was not a Republican. I was born in Chicago,lived 2 blocks from Mayor Richard M .Daley,the area was called Bridgeport in the 11 th ward. All my friends had city jobs. I lived there for 37 years and I am a Democrat. Anyone who knows anything about Chicago knows you have to be a Democrat to live in that neighborhood . I know. I'm a liar. I wrote no one would answer you because you would just call them a liar and you did'nt let me down. Form not my real name"On a personal note, I dont believe that you ever served in the Armed Forces" I wrote I joined at 17 with my father with me because he had to sign at that age. I joined the Navy and went to Orlando for boot camp even tho Great Lakes was closer because I wanted sunshine since it was winter.My father was also in the Navy and was torpedoed twice and believes in this war. Let me read your mind . I am still lying and a coward and my father is too. He is 83 but should still join or maybe he was never in the Navy. You pick. You also responded with this From not my real name "Further, I did not say that the 9-11 terrorist were brave, nor did I provide ANY compliments to them. I hate their guts and am glad that they are dead." So what does this infer From not my real name "the terrorist that atttacked us on 9-11 had more guts and more patriotism to their cause than you" More guts? That sounds like brave to me. And you changed your name from anon to not my real name. Real brave of you. And you also posted this, From not my real name "One parting shot, and trying to spin what I said, you really are a decietful little punk" Who's the decietful little punk? You only accuse people of lying without knowing anything about them. But your own words show who the liar is. Guts? What does that word mean to you. Please lie or spin it for us please. Just go away.

    Went out to eat, and the RW ers went nuts.

    I want to make all of you RWers Who CLAIM to support the troops, understand one more thing.

    You keep on implying, that if we dont win, the sacrifice of the troops will have been for nothing. That if we dont stay, our troops have died for nothing. that if we redeploy, that the troops will be dishonored somehow,

    "It is not our to question why, it is ours but to do or die"

    The troops dont get to set policy. The troops dont get to decide which fights they get to make, or when they get to fight.

    I say that no matter what happens, the troops have served admirally. I say, that the troops that have given their lives, have done so honorably. No matter who wins (for lack of a better term, besides the RWers will just change the definition of win to suit their own needs) No matter what happens, the troops sacrifices have been noble, patriotic, and worthy of all of our respect.


    BUT, the actions of the president are directly dependant upon what happens.

    If we lose this war, he shouldnt have started the war. If the entire middle-east ends up in a war, that is the fault of the president. If a nuclear war was started, then it is the fault of the president. That is what it means if you make a mistake about war.

    So who is that these RWers are trying to save. It isnt the troops, they have followed their orders, they have fought their battles, they have acted with honor, and they didnt even get to decide if they wanted to.

    Oh, and there is another group that deserves some of the shame with the president. All of those that even now, after all of the evidence to the contrary, support this president and his CONTINUED excuses to escalate this war.

    So to everyone here, DONT EVER ACT as though the troops have to do ANYTHING else to EARN honor. All of them have earned some, and are worthy of all our respect, no matter what happens.

    For karris56

    I called you a liar, because you lied by not including the rest of my statement,

    What you tried to imply, is that I respect the terrorist. If you had read my post, you would have seen that I was saying, and I will say it real slow, and step by step.


    I hate the terrorist.the terrorist are scum and I am glad that they are dead,

    but YOU RWers are lower than they are. You rank right along side Osama Bin Laden,

    because like him, you are willing to start a war, and continue a war, even though YOU WONT FIGHT the war.

    I will now do a short demonstration about what I mean. I will do it real slow, and dumb it down a bunch so that maybe you can get it., Now let us start at the bottom and establish a pecking order.

    Now petty criminals, they are better than ...

    .... the 9-11 terrost.
    .... your kind, you and Osama,
    .... child molesters

    And lawyers, they are better than ...

    .... petty criminals
    .... the 9-11 terrost.
    .... your kind, you and Osama,
    .... child molesters

    And maggots and tape worms are better than ...


    .... lawyers
    .... petty criminals
    .... the 9-11 terrost.
    .... your kind, you and Osama,
    .... child molesters


    And dogshit is better than

    .... maggots and tape worms
    .... lawyers
    .... petty criminals
    .... the 9-11 terrost.
    .... your kind, you and Osama,
    .... child molesters


    Do you get it now ?

    See, on the evolutionary thing, you dont even come in above dogshit, tapeworms, maggots, lawyers. .....


    you fit right in with Osama


    one more thing ignorant ass. your analogy about fire fighters was ignorant as hell.

    if you came upon a burning building, and the fire chief had already determined that the fire was out of control, not worth the risk to human life, and was keeping his firefighters outside the building, YOU WOULD DEMAND that he send them in ?


    That would be a STUPID thing to do......

    Oh but that is right, that is exactly what you and your RWer buddies are doing tonight, formulating how to send more troops into Iraq.

    as far as my attitude, F*ck you and the horse you rode in on.

    " From not my real name "Further, I did not say that the 9-11 terrorist were brave, nor did I provide ANY compliments to them. I hate their guts and am glad that they are dead." From not my real name "the terrorist that atttacked us on 9-11 had more guts and more patriotism to their cause than you" Again, and last time because I have had it with your anger. GUTS? What does the word mean to you? It means brave to me . I know you wont answer or admit your wrong. So just come back with I did'nt post your whole quote and I'm an idiot or a LIAR? Either way I dont care anymore. Sign up for anger management.

    karris56 said

    GUTS? What does the word mean to you?

    ###############################################

    Guts ? A designation of bravery.

    But in the context that I put it, They had more guts than you, which means,,,,,,

    Now pay attention dipshit

    if they have more than you, and they dont have any, that means ....

    You are a guttless wonder. Got it, you are a guttless RW idiot

    ###############################################

    I know you wont answer or admit your wrong. So just come back with I did'nt post your whole quote and I'm an idiot or a LIAR?


    ###############################################

    I did answer your question, last night, 24 hours ago,
    you are just too studid to know when someone is calling you stupid.


    ###############################################


    Either way I dont care anymore.


    ###############################################

    Apparently, you do, or you would have taken your stupid, went about your way, and remained stupid.

    Now here you come back, too stupid to tell when youve been stupid.


    Let me see if I can say this so that you can understand it.

    It is better to be thought ignorant, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    Well, it is too late for that, you done went and done it.


    Now one more thing, you still didnt get the list that I wrote out for you. Eveyone else around here seemed to understand it when I was saying that the 9-11 are scumbags, and you are lower than that,

    Geez, having to communicate with neanderthals and idiots is sure tiring.

    There you go everyone that is surprised that people on this board post anonymously.

    Laike karris56 is his real name, like imnotblue is his real name .....


    but anyway, my new handle is appropriate, and 100% accurate.

    Karris56

    I thought of a way that I could explain this to you better,

    I thought about making an anology of "your sister has more " and then it hit me, he may not have a sister, oh no, just more cofusion,

    Let me start again, "your momma has more balls than you " now figurativly speaking, Balls = Bravery, that may be true, but karris56 is liable to think that I mean his momma has a larger scrotum and while that might be technically and physically true ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    No, that is still gonna confuse him. Then I thought of this one.

    Any of the children in my grand-daughters kindergarten class is smarter than you. Ok, I think we are safe so far,,, second part ....

    That is not to mean that the kindergarteners are smart, not compared to adults, but even though they are not smart, compared to adults, they are smarter than you.

    Boy, this sure is difficult, my grand- kids understands things when I explain them to them, but we are dealing with karris56,,,,,,


    I dont know if I have the ability to dumb this down enough.

    You know, if the rest of the RWers are as ignorant and dumb as karris56, maybe I should feel guilty about ........


    Naw, they cant be THAT dumb.

    My last post to Right Wingers are Traitors . I will now sink to your level you lying piece of shit. You posted this "I called you a liar, because you lied by not including the rest of my statement,

    What you tried to imply, is that I respect the terrorist. If you had read my post, you would have seen that I was saying, and I will say it real slow, and step by step.' I did not include your whole post because I thought it was irrelevant ,not because I was lying. Anyone can find your whole post in the blog.If everyone posted everyone's whole posts this blog would be huge.
    Now back to your post.
    Here is what you posted "Anonymous at 01:20 AM "But I have more respect for the 9-11 hijackers than I have for you. And that is none at all
    And here is what I posted " "So you have more respect for maniacs who kill innocent people,torture,and use people as shields to fight .'And "Yeah we know what their about but you have more respect for them than your fellow americans "Where did I imply you respect the Terrorists. I wrote you respect them more than some of your fellow americans.The ones you call cowards. Who's lying? Then you post this " one more thing ignorant ass. your analogy about fire fighters was ignorant as hell.

    if you came upon a burning building, and the fire chief had already determined that the fire was out of control, not worth the risk to human life, and was keeping his firefighters outside the building, YOU WOULD DEMAND that he send them in ?


    That would be a STUPID thing to do......"

    Here was my post "In your warped mind if a situation arises where Police or Firemen are needed to go into a situation where they could be killed and my opinion is they should go, you would tell me to join first or keep my coward mouth shut." First where did I say anything about a burning building? Where did this Fire Chief come from?And where the f'ck did I say it was determined that it was not worth the risk to human life? I said a SITUATION where THEY COULD BE KILLED. That could just mean gas on in a house or an unstable structure.Hundreds of SITUATIONS.But MR.read everyones mind TELLS ME WHAT I MUST BE THINKING. Then has the nerve to call me a LIAR! Yeah I know I did'nt include your whole statement which basically says you hate the terrorists,they are scum,cowards but are better than me.Still does'nt change the fact you said they had more guts than me or RW er's as you say we all are. And that I only stated that you wrote they had more guts than us yet you twisted it to say that I meant you said they were brave.Thats 3 lies and f'ck you.And if you have any friends f'ck them too.

    What kind of loser are you.You must sit at your computer and think of how you can insult me? Like I give a f'uck.Your a moron.But for the first time in all your posts You got something right. I dont have a sister. But were wrong about my mom. She passed away 5 years ago. Now post a few more insults and cackle to yourself. Your such a clever, dare I guess, Human Being?

    Bush gave us a choice last night: Either pull out and leave the Iraqis to horrific slaughter; or, pull out later and leave the Iraqis to horrific slaughter after a lot of American soldiers have been killed.

    Kinda makes ya think, don't it? Unless you are a Bush supporter and then thinking is forbidden...

    Among current smokers, chronic lung disease accounts for 73 percent of smoking-related conditions.

    Even among smokers who have quit chronic lung disease accounts for 50 percent of smoking-related conditions.

    Tick Tock current and ex-smokers. I cross all party lines.

    Well Anon....I think quite well, thank you for your concern.

    The President's plan is clear.

    For those opposed to the US in Iraq....What actions can stop his error?

    I will not repeat myself....just remember what The Democrats promised prior to the last election.

    And finally, for historical perspective on how powerful Congress can be in changing American foreign policy, please read the following article:

    http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2005/12/18/vietnam_and_victory/

    The balanced article gives both supporters of Bush and detractors arguments to hang their hats on....I would appreciate some opinion.

    It is interesting to see the perspective of an NVA guy on what the Tet Offensive did and did not do for his side at the time:

    "A second critique of Sorley's thesis goes to the significance of the Viet Cong's reversals. According to Hien, the aim of the Tet Offensive was only partly to seize the South's cities; it was also intended to break the will of the American political leadership to continue the war. In this, it succeeded.

    "Hien calls Tet 'a victory with heavy casualties.' It may have been a sacrifice from which the Viet Cong never entirely recovered, but it was a sacrifice which helped drive the US from the field, ultimately enabling the North to win the war. 'The American historians want to isolate a short period of history and claim a victory,' Hien remarks. 'But at the end of the war, which side achieved its strategic and political aims?'"

    IMHO, Iraq is now 100% about long term political aims of the democratic west versus that of the theocratic/radical islamists....that makes it essential that Iraq remain under the stewardship of "moderates" who want peace with the west.

    I know I will get pounded for my opinion....but I am sure it will pale in comparison to what you all did to poor Grammie and sharon last night.....ouch!

    (BTW...you did great ladies...I would have bowed out at around 9:55 PM, but you held and prevailed)

    Johnny Dollar with another great write-up on Toykolbermann.

    I only wish I could have seen the hour of spin.

    Has Al Jazeera started running Citizen Keith's speshul comments in Arabic yet? It's only a matter of time.

    He sounded like he was extra deplorable last night.

    This once fine news organization at 30 rock has turned into the American version of Al jazeera.

    Al Jazeera @ 30 rock.

    Huntley, Brinkley and Chancellor must be spinning over th spin that Olby and Dan Abrams bring to NBC.

    What a despicable person Tokyolbermann is.

    L.F.

    FOX now copies Olbermann is desperate attempt to stop the drop in ratings. Pretty boy Hannity goes berserk. Here is courtesy of AOL. They like Olbermann. And oh by the way, he is the anchor on the most important nights wher is O Reilly. All of the important guests on the left side. Mr. Obama, Mr. Kennedy, Mr. any one important does NOT choose to go on FOX. They have their own lackey's from the unknown as critics. While CNN and MSNBC show both sides of the issue. Fox shows their own reporters with SPIN and bull crap. Fox reporter yesterday called Kennedy a hostile terrorist and was corrected immediately by white house PR guy to say that the White House does not consider him a terrorist. Martha McCallum graduate of the Columbia school of broadcasting follows her orders from Du Furher..Roger Ailes.

    Is it us, or are regular "slam-your-political-enemy" features used by news commentary shows becoming pretty predictable and uninspired. Does Olbermann really have to keep going after O'Reilly? And, does Sean Penn really deserve an Enemy of the State award?

    We have to say, we like that Olbermann cracks some jokes...

    Which on do you find more poignant and/or entertaining? Sound off in the comments.

    "Mr. Obama, Mr. Kennedy, Mr. any one important does NOT choose to go on FOX."

    Barry, what world do you live in?

    Chris Wallace just had Senator Kennedy on his show December 18, 2006

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,237021,00.html

    Please take your lies to a site where they belong.....like HuffPo.

    cee,

    Your statement about the need for moderate influence in the middle east as justification for staying in Iraq is erroneous. In both Afghanistan and Iraq, women are quickly falling back to their old Taliban-like conditions; even worse, in Iraq, Hussein gave women more rights than the countries around him. Without his influence, we are already seeing Islamic misogyny creeping in.

    In a nutshell, our presence isn't helping to soften life under Islamic fundamentalism...

    It scares me that people like you two endorse Olbermann's lies and hypocrisy... because you don't like someone (Oreilley) you accuse of doing the same. Its the height of calling the kettle black. Just because you like his message doesn't give KO the right to fabricate facts and call it news.

    KO is not an anchor. He is an actor. Although I can find little fault in last night's 'act' following Bush's speech. He was subdued and more even handed than I have ever seen him. But he will fall back on his head exploding rants soon.

    And its obvious to me that the other reputable pundits on MessNBC like Matthews 'stomach him' rather than respect him.

    "FOX now copies Olbermann is desperate attempt to stop the drop in ratings."

    Uh, have you seen the ratings lately? Fox still outpulls MNSBC & CNN, almost put-together.

    and

    "While CNN and MSNBC show both sides of the issue."

    Not on Olbermann's show.

    and

    "Fox shows their own reporters with SPIN and bull crap."

    Spin and bull crap? Sounds like Olby's show to me.

    Brandon- the people that don't see the bias at CNN and MSNBC need not apply here. I see a right slant at Fox News but don't defend it. I truly appreciate the left pundits they bring in to Fix for fair and balanced debates. They get trounced. Thats why fair and balanced debates never happen at CNN and MSNBC. The lefties don't like the results of the debates.

    He was so doped up on Hillbilly heroine and they followed him like little sheep.
    ===================================================
    I'm offended!

    Everyone knows that Hillbilly heroine is METH!

    (ok, couldn't resist that one)

    "The lefties don't like the results of the debates."

    It's like the people who post here to defend Olbermann will say, "You have Fox News" so we have Keith. Right there with those kind of statements they acknowledge Olbermann's biases but they can't admit that those biases are wrong. And the bias is wrong if it's from the right or from the left if you're billing yourself as a journalist and your program as a news show. What the lefties want is 100% liberal-slanted news. Go read your average Democratic website and watch the abuse they hurl on CNN's coverage of anything. They want the left-perspective only and it enrages them to see anything other than that.

    Best part is the MSNBC ratings... toilet rising to the rim- but still in the toilet. Thats how a toilet runs. Starts low- then trends higher- and then in an instant- FLUSH! Abrams is selling his soul to the liberals in hopes of getting ratings. He should call "Air America' for some advice.

    Ok, this made me laugh so much today that I just had to post it for the benefit of our lefty friends (and I mean those further left than Mike). (i personally vote for cobra commander for the delicious irony of it. COBRA!!!!)

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Gerard of American Digest recently pointed out that no one has yet compared Bush to Vlad the Impaler, and - upon reading that - it occured to me that the left is making a huge mistake in comparing Bush to Hitler.

    After all, Hitler managed to hold the reins of German power for 11 years and was directly responsible for millions of deaths.

    What's Bush's confirmed body count?

    Why, it's not even as impressive as Ted Kennedy's.

    Besides, as the frothing Kos-kids are forever pointing out, Bush is an idiotic bumbler who has the cunning of Grimace and the success-to-failure ratio of Wile E. Coyote. Surely a more accurate comparison would be to those lovable, bumbling villians who bluff and bluster but never manage to really hurt anyone before their ill-conceived schemes blow up in their faces.

    So here's a list of dangerously unbalanced and/or evil people to whom comparing Bush would be FAR more reasonable:

    Snidely Whiplash

    C. Montgomery Burns

    Boris and/or Natasha

    Cobra Commander

    Elmer Fudd

    Sylvester Pussycat

    Dr. Bunsen Honeydew

    Any Batman villain from the TV series.

    Pinky and/or The Brain

    Shredder

    Harcourt Fenton "Harry" Mudd

    David Letterman and/or Paul Schaffer

    The Wachowski brothers

    Sideshow Bob

    Captain Hook

    The Wicked Witch of the West

    Severus Snape

    Gargamel

    Vizzini

    Witchiepoo

    Skeletor

    Jareth the Goblin King

    Dr. Smith

    and, of course, Frank J.

    Who - like George W. Bush - has yet to have a SINGLE confirmed kill of either a monkey or ninja, despite his numerous half-implemented plans to bring about their destruction.

    Grim:

    Dr. Bunsen Honeydew is in no way evil....just deluded into believing his own intellect can create betterment for all of mankind.....

    This great muppet with glasses but NO eyes satirically defines the American leftist intelligencia....Remember this young people, as you go off to university. The liberal elite have your undivided attention AND great power over you...Do not become their "Beaker."

    Quote of the day :

    Is Bush dishonest or deluded?

    Posted by: Donora Pa at January 11, 2007 12:15 AM


    Both. He has no credibility left with the American people.
    There was a demonstration against the escalation outside the White House tonite.
    I just got an email of one being organized in my area.

    George Bush finally succeeded at something.
    He's bringing this country together( against him)

    "Succeeding in Iraq also requires defending its territorial integrity and stabilizing the region in the face of the extremist challenge. This begins with addressing Iran and Syria. These two regimes are allowing terrorists and insurgents to use their territory to move in and out of Iraq. Iran is providing material support for attacks on American troops. We will disrupt the attacks on our forces. We will interrupt the flow of support from Iran and Syria. And we will seek out and destroy the networks providing advanced weaponry and training to our enemies in Iraq." - President George W. Bush

    Well, my little "Red Alert" signal went off in the back of my mind...

    How, exactly, does the President intend to do this? We're taxed as it is, and you can't solve this by lobbing cruise missiles or bombs from a carrier strike group.

    Cee:Please take your lies to a site where they belong.....like HuffPo.

    Funny: Huffington Post is probably the best information site on the web.Their news stories come from AP, Wapo etc.
    Their blogs are by ex-military men, screenwriters, authors, CEO's etc etc.

    It's not a surprise that Cee, the ultimate deluded one politically, thinks Huffpo lies. They tell it like it is.

    Just a simple point of order for all of you out there who say you don't refer to Bush as president...

    It is a fact, not a point of respect. He was sworn in and is the office holder.

    Pete Rose is baseball's hit king

    Barry Bonds will probably be baseball's all time HR king

    Rosie is the moderator of the view

    The Donald is rich and powerful

    If you like or dislike any of these people...fine. But is has no bearing on the facts.

    Bush gave us a choice last night: Either pull out and leave the Iraqis to horrific slaughter; or, pull out later and leave the Iraqis to horrific slaughter after a lot of American soldiers have been killed.

    Kinda makes ya think, don't it? Unless you are a Bush supporter and then thinking is forbidden...

    Posted by: Anonymous at January 11, 2007 7:36 AM

    You are right on the money. This is not a complicated situation.
    Only those wanting to support this madness will write for hours and tie themselves into knots trying to justify it.
    Does that sound like anyone we know ?
    TDF

    If Roger Ailes is Der Furher,

    doesn't that make Dan Abrams Der Kommissar?

    My apologies if these points have already been made however...

    The Dems said Rumsfeld was mismanaging the war and needed to go...So Pres. Bush replaced him (and laughingly, John Kerry this morning sited Sec Rumsfeld's positions as "evidence" that the troop surge was a bad idea).

    The Dems said the current strategy wasn't working and more of the same or "stay the course" was wrong...So Pres. Bush has adopted a new, more agressive strategy

    The Dems said we need to set benchmarks to let PM Maliki that the US would not stay forever...So Pres. Bush set a Nov. 2007 deadline for the Iraq troops to be in control.

    The president, I feel, gave the Dems alot of what they wanted (not all, but quite a bit). And still, they aren't happy and won't support what we are trying to do. Nor will they offer a concrete, thought out, long term alternative that answers the question "what happens if we just up and leave right now?" Will they EVER get on board and help this country win the war on terror? Instead they...and the MSM...just love to "report" the news with as many sizzle words as they can think of "aflame", "engulfs", "rages", "incredible", "remarkable"

    1600 UN scientist can't be wrong, right Bob?

    I was particularly struck by Bush opening a new front in the war with his potential blockade of Iran.
    This without any type of diplomacy ( which the Iraq Study Group calls for ) is recipe for disaster.

    He's done such a wonderful job in Iraq, so now he has his sights set on Iran.

    How much longer until 2008?
    Can we last that long as a country?

    I don't think the Chimpster has to worry much about his legacy any longer.

    Janet Hawkins,
    "Mike, I've noticed when RedWolf gets in high gear he burns out quick if everyone refuses to feed him. "

    Your attack on me was uncalled for. We're supposed to be on the same side. I can easily turn my guns on the hypocrisy of conservatives also. So Either consider me on your team or I will include Conservatives in my attacks. You guys have plenty of targets for me to hit. The choice is yours!

    Oh, and for those posters who seem to think that Fox News is or would want to copy MSNBC...

    CABLE NEWS RACE
    TUES. JAN. 9, 2007
    VIEWERS

    FOXNEWS O'REILLY 2,498,000
    FNC HANNITY/COLMES 2,189,000
    FNC GRETA 1,473,000
    FNC BRIT HUME 1,319,000
    FNC SHEP 1,315,000
    CNN DOBBS 1,106,000
    CNN BLITZER 825,000
    CNN COOPER 658,000
    CNN ZAHN 611,000,
    MSNBC OLBERMANN 605,000
    KING 544,000
    MSNBC HARDBALL 502,000
    CNNHN GRACE 496,000

    The numbers don't lie.

    Bill thinks Fox News is a valid news station?
    Is that what he is implying?

    Or are we just talking numbers here ?

    Oh yeah....I actually rely of those nice people on HuffPo to show me the depths of irrationality the radical left is willing to accept.....

    just like kos.

    Like the fun time the Huffs all have slinging the mud of religious bigotry and racism.

    I particularly like when Richard Dawkins posts....

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-dawkins/why-there-almost-certainl_b_32164.html

    The comment sections are really revealing as well...are you a regular, Bushkill?

    Did you participate in the revealing HuffPo debate over Jimmy Carter's anti-Semetism?....The left looked good over that one as well.

    Yes, the future under the tolerant, elitist left.....A Brave New World!

    Bill,

    Loved your comments at the end of your post...reminds me of the play-by-play guy and the color guy for ESPN's the Ocho in the movie Dodgeball

    Cotton: This is unbelievable!
    Pepper: I can't believe it Cotton!

    Cotton: He is putting on a blindfold
    Pepper: He's not ging to be able to see very well Cotton!

    Cotton: This is just shocking!
    Pepper: I'm shocked Cotton!

    Bill thinks Fox News is a valid news station?
    Is that what he is implying?

    Or are we just talking numbers here ?

    Posted by: Anonymous at January 11, 2007 11:05 AM

    Are YOU implying that CNN & MSNBC are "valid news stations(s)"?

    Ratings don't matter with the left-
    They can justify anything with their stupidity!

    Simple math
    FOXNEWS O'REILLY 2,498,000
    divided by
    MSNBC OLBERMANN 605,000
    equals one fourth

    OUCH! The truth hurts! You guys are losers! We are number 3!

    Actually- just the same

    Simple math
    MSNBC OLBERMANN 605,000
    divided by
    FOXNEWS O'REILLY 2,498,000
    equals one fourth

    OUCH! The truth hurts! You guys are losers! We are number 3!

    elitist!...Lapdog loves that word.
    uses it every chance he gets.

    How does it feel, Cee, that the country is united against Bush's plan...and you ?

    Let's try to make some sense of it:

    Bush is adding 15% more troops in the thick of a civil war.
    Even though there HAS been more than this 15 % increase in troops at various times during the past 4 years....with no positive results.

    This "strategery" is sure to add more horrific deaths of our brave troops.

    SO what, right ?

    So let's try it again and call it "a New Way Forward"

    God , your boys love their slogans !

    They are EXCELLENT at that !

    Running wars and a country...not as good !


    OUCH! The truth hurts! You guys are losers! We are number 3!

    Posted by: Benson at January 11, 2007 11:17 AM

    After maybe his most important speech all you can do is talk about Fox's ratings. Ouch, his speech sucked.

    It's all a popularity contest with you morons ( about the ratings)

    George Bush won the popularity contest and now look where we are.

    Does that make you think at all?

    Probably not !

    "Succeeding in Iraq also requires defending its territorial integrity and stabilizing the region in the face of the extremist challenge. This begins with addressing Iran and Syria. These two regimes are allowing terrorists and insurgents to use their territory to move in and out of Iraq. Iran is providing material support for attacks on American troops. We will disrupt the attacks on our forces. We will interrupt the flow of support from Iran and Syria. And we will seek out and destroy the networks providing advanced weaponry and training to our enemies in Iraq." - President George W. Bush"


    Been nice if he would have listened more to Ret. General Barry McCaffrey and less to Donald Rumsfeld, a long time ago.

    Slogans like-
    "I did not have sexual relation with that woman"?

    Bob writes, "Can we last that long as a country?"

    No, Chucky is certainly evil, Cee.

    He's merely Chicken Little (D) with anger issues.

    I meant to write that our Chucks is NOT evil.

    Must have been a freudian...

    The last descent Democrat of national stature said the following in 1956:

    "This is the revolution we can, we should, we must offer to the people of Vietnam - not as charity, not as a business proposition, not as a political maneuver, nor simply to enlist them as soldiers against Communism or as chattels of American foreign policy - but a revolution of their own making, for their own welfare, and for the security of freedom everywhere. The Communists offer them another kind of revolution, glittering and seductive in its superficial appeal. The choice between the two can be made only by the Vietnamese people themselves. But in these times of trial and burden, true friendships stand out.

    "As Premier Diem recently wrote a great friend of Vietnam, Senator Mansfield, 'It is only in winter that you can tell which trees are evergreen.' And I am confident that if this nation demonstrates that it has not forgotten the people of Vietnam, the people of Vietnam will demonstrate that they have not forgotten us."

    Mmmmm...nice quote from Diem Senator Kennedy used, eh?.....

    "It is only in winter that you can tell which trees are evergreen."

    http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/Speeches/JFK/JFK+Pre-Pres/002PREPRES12SPEECHES_56JUN01.htm

    Please read his entire speech from 1956....I specifically ask you liberals a simple question....Was Kennedy LYING when he made these wrong judgements (according to you) in 1956?

    I will continue the appeal to our more compasionate and honorable nature while the leftists continue whining.

    Bob writes "It's all a popularity contest with you morons ( about the ratings)

    George Bush won the popularity contest and now look where we are."


    This from a guy who first appeared on this board writing post after belligerent post asking Republicans how they liked now being in the minority and who has argued using polls about public support for the war ever since!

    "Basically, my goal is to purge the Earth of all things liberal. First through diplomacy, then by force. I theorise that in the grand scheme of things, that it is truly what Jesus would do. "

    This is what it says on Damian G's website all... Now taht IS a scary religious worldview, don't you think?

    *******

    I was bring SARCASTIC, my liberal friend.

    You can always count on Cecilia never changing her MO.

    "He's merely Chicken Little (D) with anger issues."


    She's a truly repugnant human being who wouldn't be upset if 100,000 of our soldiers met their deaths, along as a Republican is president.

    This from a guy who first appeared on this board writing post after belligerent post asking Republicans how they liked now being in the minority and who has argued using polls about public support for the war ever since!

    I know facts are not your strong suit,Ceals, but I started posting in the early fall.
    FYI.

    "He's merely Chicken Little (D) with anger issues."


    She's a truly repugnant human being who wouldn't be upset if 100,000 of our soldiers met their deaths, along as a Republican is president."


    And here's Chicken Little (D)'s talent extrapolation too! ga gawk!

    cee, I would like to point out in the JFK speech you quoted that he indicated the decision of democracy vs. communism rested with the Vietnamese people.

    50 years later, we have forgotten that part of the lesson. Yes, we can offer and cajole the Iraqis to adopt western democracy, but ultimately it is THEIR CHOICE whether to adopt it or not. We cannot force them - else we are no different than the Soviet Union during the Warsaw Pact days.

    "I know facts are not your strong suit,Ceals, but I started posting in the early fall.
    FYI."

    Ah... the smell of blood drew you...

    Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill.,( who truly made more sense than Bush last night ) told CBS that since the new Democratic-led Congress convened last week, "questions are now being asked of this administration that haven't been asked for almost four years."

    Grammie stated very clearly last night that no questions should be asked, b/c the GOP did just what she wanted them to do.
    That appears to be the right's battle cry:
    Let them war profiteer, botch wars and lie while doing it. They're our guys , and damn the country.

    Bush's Speech bombs :

    Defense Secretary Gates: Unclear How Long The "Temporary" Military Buildup Will Last...

    Maliki Associate: "The Government Believes There Is No Need For Extra Troops From The American Side"...

    Sen Hagel: "This Is A Dangerously Wrong-Headed Strategy"...

    Rep. Murtha: "We Are Sending Troops Back...Who Have Not Completed Their Training Cycle"

    WASHINGTON - The Democratic-controlled House voted Wednesday to increase the federal minimum wage to $7.25 an hour, bringing America's lowest-paid workers a crucial step closer to their first raise

    The vote was 315-116, with more than 80 Republicans joining Democrats to pass it.

    "You should not be relegated to poverty if you work hard and play by the rules," said House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer D-Md.

    The bill was the second measure passed since Democrats took control of the House, ending more than a decade of Republican rule.

    "Janet Hawkins,
    "Mike, I've noticed when RedWolf gets in high gear he burns out quick if everyone refuses to feed him. "

    Your attack on me was uncalled for. We're supposed to be on the same side. I can easily turn my guns on the hypocrisy of conservatives also. So Either consider me on your team or I will include Conservatives in my attacks. You guys have plenty of targets for me to hit. The choice is yours!

    Posted by: Red Wolf at January 11, 2007 11:01 AM"

    Red Wolf, Of course you can attack anyone you choose with impunity. All of us are drowning in the evidence in front of our eyes. They are not right and neither are you when you get in a certain mood.

    I hope for better from you. One doesn't have to use a sledge hammer to painfully dissect someone. I am the target of this vile (up to and including several death wishes) rhetoric as much as anyone.

    Red Wolf, keep your cool and use finesse. Remember the old adage revenge is best served cold.

    I would be sorly disappointed in you if you attacked me and others for the reason you stated.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Since Keith olbermann's show has had a 51% increase in ratings the past year,I'd like to thank everyone who posts at this site for their contributions and keeping Keith on the air.

    Keep up the good work Obly haters

    The jokes on you.


    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha h ah ha h ah ha h a

    Red Wolf,

    You do go over the top sometimes. I think you should "throttle back" and keep yourself in second gear. Do less insults and more logic, reasoning, and facts. Remember, that's our way.

    And no more of those stupid Arab jokes! Nobody likes them. Nobody.

    Red Wolf,

    You do go over the top sometimes. I think you should "throttle back" and keep yourself in second gear. Do less insults and more logic, reasoning, and facts. Remember, that's our way.

    Posted by: Rico at January 11, 2007 12:14 PM

    he he he he hardy har har har haw.

    It's all a popularity contest with you morons ( about the ratings)

    George Bush won the popularity contest and now look where we are.

    Does that make you think at all?

    Probably not !
    ==================================================
    Hmm.... you make a good point Bob.

    In fact, global warming is winning the popularity contest right now (as you put it). Ever wonder where we might end up from that one?

    Does that make you think at all?

    EE writes "50 years later, we have forgotten that part of the lesson. Yes, we can offer and cajole the Iraqis to adopt western democracy, but ultimately it is THEIR CHOICE whether to adopt it or not. We cannot force them - else we are no different than the Soviet Union during the Warsaw Pact days."


    If Kennedy thinks it was entirely wrong to have gone into Iraq and deposed Saddam in the first place, then his words are specious at the outset.

    However, does Kennedy feel that it would have been right to depose Saddam, based upon the criteria of finding weapons of mass destruction?

    In that's the case, if we had found them, would Kennedy still argue that a democratic form of govt is a mere choice, and an authoritarian form of govt is another mere choice? Would the concept of what is right and what is wrong have any role in his opinion on what should be offered as a viable "choice"?

    It would be very interesting to know his opinion on that.

    Too, I had thought that the Iraqis had held elections, had made room to incorporate the Sunnis into having representation, and that the bomb planters were not on the ballot or arbiters of the wishes of most Iraqis.

    We are all adults here, I am assuming....Red Wolf can post whatever he wants and I will skip the stuff that bothers me just like I do the profane vindictive posted by the HORDES of liberal posters....especially around midnight!

    Back to the point....EE, I agree with you...the ideology that prevails in Iraq (as it should have been in Vietnam) should be CHOSEN by the nation's citizenry....However, currently, you have a violent, terrorist Sunni insurgency backed by Al Queda trying to overthrow the democratically elected government. The government is incapable of stopping the revolution on its own and needs someone's help....Bush is taking the political risk to do something.....anyone else?

    Will Iraq end as Vietnam did....an imposed ideology simply because the will to protect a weak democracy was lost?

    Also, JFK is clear how idealistic the support of Diem was....and he was later proven WRONG. I do not recall any of my liberal college profs calling JFK a liar like some are so quick to do with Bush.

    And please, do not accuse me of totally equating JFK with Bush...that would be a red herring response....I simply would like some to try to be objective with regards to the concept of loyalty to one's allies and the ease at which enemies of freedom can be identified. Just like Senator Benson would say...."you're no Jack Kennedy."

    Still no further comments from the radical left about my Boston Globe article (8am).....I wonder why?

    Thanks for the civility, EE.


    "In fact, global warming is winning the popularity contest right now (as you put it). Ever wonder where we might end up from that one?"

    "Does that make you think at all?"


    Challenger Grim that is a false comparison, as most of the scientific evidence points to the conclusion that global warming is real. Just like most of the evidence on George Bush pointed to the fact that he was failure before his election. The right keeps ignoring the evidence trying to navigate the world as they wish it was.

    You guys are very delusional.

    Janet "I hope for better from you. One doesn't have to use a sledge hammer to painfully dissect someone. I am the target of this vile (up to and including several death wishes) rhetoric as much as anyone."


    I'm utterly serious when I say that it's extraordinary and chilling to read the insults that have been written here to you.

    It's right that anyone would argue for more civility here.

    I'll try to make less fun of Bob.

    If I can manage to resist that temptation, I'll then be able to walk on water and part the red sea.

    "Grammie stated very clearly last night that no questions should be asked, b/c the GOP did just what she wanted them to do.
    That appears to be the right's battle cry:
    Let them war profiteer, botch wars and lie while doing it. They're our guys , and damn the country.

    Posted by: Bob at January 11, 2007 11:46 AM"

    Bob, if I had a lock on truth, justice and the American Way as you tell us ad nauseum I hope I
    would not feel the need to lie.

    WHY DO YOU?

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Cecelia, I hope you don't take offense but one word of advice for when you reach my state of sanctity.

    Take off your shoes first. :)

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Challenger Grim that is a false comparison, as most of the scientific evidence points to the conclusion that global warming is real. Just like most of the evidence on George Bush pointed to the fact that he was failure before his election. The right keeps ignoring the evidence trying to navigate the world as they wish it was.
    ====================================================
    Well I was thinking of the Iraq War as a comparison. After all, a lot of "evidence" pointed to WMDs etc etc and it was very popular at the time no? (i mean, how many dems voted for it?)

    Janet:

    For your side's sake, I DO hope you will heed the warning you got this morning at 11:01 from Red Wolf!

    I trust that you've personally witnessed the awesome power of his "poison pen", and the way he has used it to dissect and decimate those who have displeased him in the past.

    Just consider that a "warning shot across the bow"!

    "Will Iraq end as Vietnam did....an imposed ideology simply because the will to protect a weak democracy was lost?"

    Possibly, but this seems to harken back more to the early 90's when Republicans were clamoring that the U.S. was not "the world's policeman" everytime that President Clinton wanted to shore up some country beset by civil and ethnic strife.

    If you want to get down to brass tacks, we've been supporting the "weak democracy" in Iraq for going on three years now. The Iraqis have managed to make very small gains in supporting themselves, but so many of their ministries and forces are infiltrated by militia it's hard to tell what is true progress and what is retrenchment into the Sunni/Shia splits.

    "I do not recall any of my liberal college profs calling JFK a liar like some are so quick to do with Bush."

    JFK (like Lincoln) gets a lot of his sins glossed over because of his assassination. Very few know the real story behind the 1960 Presidential Election or dredge up his father Joe's bootlegging days (other than to slam currently serving Kennedy politicians).

    "Thanks for the civility, EE."

    Your welcome. The least we can do is try to have reasoned debate.

    Poor, poor deluded President Johnson:

    "Tonight Americans and Asians are dying for a world where each people may choose its own path to change.

    "This is the principle for which our ancestors fought in the valleys of Pennsylvania. It is the principle for which our sons fight tonight in the jungles of Viet-Nam.

    "Viet-Nam is far away from this quiet campus. We have no territory there, nor do we seek any. The war is dirty and brutal and difficult. And some 400 young men, born into an America that is bursting with opportunity and promise, have ended their lives on Viet-Nam's steaming soil.

    "Why must we take this painful road?

    "Why must this Nation hazard its ease, and its interest, and its power for the sake of a people so far away?

    "We fight because we must fight if we are to live in a world where every country can shape its own destiny. And only in such a world will our own freedom be finally secure.

    "This kind of world will never be built by bombs or bullets. Yet the infirmities of man are such that force must often precede reason, and the waste of war, the works of peace.

    "We wish that this were not so. But we must deal with the world as it is, if it is ever to be as we wish.

    "The world as it is in Asia is not a serene or peaceful place. The first reality is that North Viet-Nam has attacked the independent nation of South Viet-Nam. Its object is total conquest.

    "Of course, some of the people of South Viet-Nam are participating in attack on their own government. But trained men and supplies, orders and arms, flow in a constant stream from north to south.

    "This support is the heartbeat of the war. And it is a war of unparalleled brutality. Simple farmers are the targets of assassination and kidnapping. Women and children are strangled in the night because their men are loyal to their government. And helpless villages are ravaged by sneak attacks. Large-scale raids are conducted on towns, and terror strikes in the heart of cities.

    "The confused nature of this conflict cannot mask the fact that it is the new face of an old enemy. Over this war--and all Asia--is another reality: the deepening shadow of Communist China. The rulers in Hanoi are urged on by Peking. This is a regime which has destroyed freedom in Tibet, which has attacked India, and has been condemned by the United Nations for aggression in Korea. It is a nation which is helping the forces of violence in almost every continent. The contest in Viet-Nam is part of a wider pattern of aggressive purposes.

    "Why are these realities our concern? Why are we in South Viet-Nam? We are there because we have a promise to keep. Since 1954 every American President has offered support to the people of South Viet-Nam. We have helped to build, and we have helped to defend. Thus, over many years, we have made a national pledge to help South Viet-Nam defend its independence.

    "And I intend to keep that promise.

    "To dishonor that pledge, to abandon this small and brave nation to its enemies, and to the terror that must follow, would be an unforgivable wrong."

    The poor man goes on.....you can read the rest at

    http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/archives.hom/speeches.hom/650407.asp

    But alas....3 short years later....beaten down and having no will to continue....poor, poor LBJ fled.....abandoning the nation to later feel justified to break the promise.

    This is the history Al Queda and the insurgents know very well. It's ok to break a promise.

    Is it Redstate that's the good one?

    "Possibly, but this seems to harken back more to the early 90's when Republicans were clamoring that the U.S. was not "the world's policeman" everytime that President Clinton wanted to shore up some country beset by civil and ethnic strife."


    I read that statement often and it's always put out as if it were some entirely inexplicable change of course or some political flip flop.

    The fear that Saddam did have WMD and was likely to share them with the Attas of the world was a bit of a factor.

    "The fear that Saddam did have WMD and was likely to share them with the Attas of the world was a bit of a factor."

    I'm not highlighting it as a "gotcha", but trying to get some context as to when we should and should not intervene (and also when to get out).

    Rico,
    Why does my Muslim jokes bother people, yet people can crack Hispanic jokes. Muslims are the most protected people in this country. The media loves them and the Left is their ally. I thought conservatives were about protecting America? I guess you guys buy into that PC crap and are more worried whether some one is Gay or has an abortuion. That's why the GOP lost Congress. Many Rightwing people didn't vote.
    Until Republicans stop defending Muslims, kissing up to Internationalists Traitorous Big Businesses, attacking Hispanic immigrants, taking about Gay marriage and obsessed with abortion, many Nationalist minded Libertarians will never vote Republican. You'll have the Socialist Pro-Islamic Democrats in powre.
    Rico and other conservatives, wake up Islam is the enemy!

    Busg's Iraq plan is stupid. What're 20,000 troops going to do? Nothing! We need 60,000 over ther to make a difference. We van hget those troops from Germany! we have 70,000 sitting there defending Germany from whom? No one. Germany like Europe's problem is Islamic immigration.

    Red Wolf,

    According to the manual for fighting an insurgency (written by Lieutenant General David Petraeus), we need 20 troops for every 1,000 persons in the country.

    Based upon that calculation, we'd need an additional 250,000 troops on top of the 140,000 already in-country. Even if we pulled EVERY ground combat-capable soldier from every other theater of operations, we couldn't meet this number (not to mention the logistical, social and political nightmares of such a shift). I mean, we've got the commanders in Afghanistan clamoring for the President NOT to redeploy one of their brigades from there to Iraq.

    What say you now?

    EE, there is, to my mind at least, two glaring differences re your statement and today.

    "Possibly, but this seems to harken back more to the early 90's when Republicans were clamoring that the U.S. was not "the world's policeman" everytime that President Clinton wanted to shore up some country beset by civil and ethnic strife."

    The 1990's were the first decade in generations that did not have a serious threat to us more or less concentrated in one definable enemy. My criticisms stop at our boundaries. For some it did not and they were wrong. Looking back, though, it was a half hearted effort by President Clinton and his critics. Could this tepidness be partly accounted for that after our ignominious withdrawal from Somalia that our fist was a finger pushing a few buttons from miles away or thousands of feet in the air.

    We had lots of reasons to unite and be more aggressive during the nineties. Unfortunately NOBODY recognized the threat much less tried to galvanise us.

    911 was a seminal event and made many positions prior obsolete and dangerous. For now and probably many years to come we are living in a new world. The height of folly would have been to do nothing and pretend that 911 was no different then any other day.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Ensign Expendable,
    You make a valid point. However I'm for the 80% solution. Let's ally ourselves with the Shiites and Kurds. Let's cut a deal with Al-Sadr and combined The US Army/Kurdish Peshmerga/Badr Brigades/Mehdi army can crush tAl-Qaeda and their Sunni Iraqi allies. Clean out those 3 provinces and leave it a wasteland. Then declare victory and immediately withdraw! That's the answer. The longer we stay the bigger the quicksand. Let's leave but on a victorious note using Mongol tactics!

    Good ol' Drudge....I liked this story.....

    "14 Carter Center advisers resign in protest over book"


    "The resignations from The Carter Center board are the latest backlash against the former president's book "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid," which has drawn fire from Jewish groups, been attacked by fellow Democrats and led to the resignation last month of Kenneth Stein, a center fellow and a longtime Carter adviser.

    "You have clearly abandoned your historic role of broker in favor of becoming an advocate for one side," the departing members of the Center's Board of Councilors told Carter in their letter of resignation."


    ###
    Strange timing in light of my comments about the radical left's anti-Semetism (especially on HuffPo)....Bushkill never responded BTW.

    I wonder if Olbermann will cover this little story tonight on COUNTDOWN?

    cee,
    Olbermann is an anti-Jew himself. From my understanding he's part Arab. That explains his symapthy towards Al-Qaeda and Iran. He wants there to be a 2nd Holocaust. If Israel were to be nukes, him and that other anti-Semite Chris Matthews will celebrate the ends of Israel!

    "911 was a seminal event and made many positions prior obsolete and dangerous. For now and probably many years to come we are living in a new world. The height of folly would have been to do nothing and pretend that 911 was no different then any other day."

    I agree with you to a certain degree, Grammie. But I think it's also folly to think that leaving Afghanistan before the job was done and then moving on to Iraq has made the world less dangerous.

    "It will be nothing but bloody casualties. Hey, viewer, are you getting the message?"

    Johhny FRAUD, in his RIGHT up to todays show

    No, apparently you aren't, Johnny FRAUD. We are going to have MORE casualties if we put more troops in Iraq... It is basic math... I realize that you flunked that class in 3rd grade (the apparent extent of your education,) but, alas, if you have approximately 160,000 troops in a country & 3000 get killed, if you put another 20,000 in, the killing will NOT all of a sudden end...

    Moron...

    Fourteen members of an advisory board to Jimmy Carter's human rights organization resigned on Thursday to protest his new book, which criticizes Israeli policy in the Palestinian territories.

    Will the Orange one talk about this tonight. NO...Why ? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FIX THE ORANGE AGENDA !

    PS. Polls look better for Mr.Obly but his still in 7th place ! and about 1.8 million viewers behind Bill.

    That, by the way, was reeposted from last night...

    i reposted it because I have yet to hear from Johnny FRAUD since last nights Tumbleweed speech, & I was worried about him...

    Oh FRAUD?? Where are you? Are you OK? Did Tumbleweeds speech leave you mutw because of how poor it was? Did you get laid.... Nah, I KNOW that isn't the case...

    RIGHT back, asswipe....

    Today's Radical Left ( not Liberals) is the direct decendant of of the NAZIS. that's why they're allied with Islami facists. Just like how Hitler was allied with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and the SS had Islamic fighters from Bosnia and Albania.

    "Today's Radical Left ( not Liberals) is the direct decendant of of the NAZIS."

    By the terms of Godwin's Law you hereby LOSE, Red Wolf. All arguments from you from this point on are NULL AND VOID.

    Ah yes....back in the minority again....gridlock and paralysis to follow?.....

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/01/11/D8MJ6MLO0.html

    "Reid has said he will schedule a vote on a nonbinding bill expressing disapproval of Bush's new policy, but McConnell's filibuster threat indicated that he would not be rushed into the vote. Under the Senate's rules, 60 votes are required to cut off debate on an issue, and even the threat of a filibuster can force concessions by the majority."

    And we know how good 'ol Joe Lieberman will vote!


    Ensign Expendable,
    You obviously didn'r read what I wrote I said the Radical Left not Liberals! There's a difference. The Left calls us Nazis why can't we expose them for their Nazism? I'm not here to win an argument but to cast my opinion.

    "By the terms of Godwin's Law you hereby LOSE, Red Wolf. All arguments from you from this point on are NULL AND VOID."

    I don't care anout the Laws. The truth speaks for itself!

    pony

    Hello everyone. I'm just responding to your posts and I am informing you I do support Terrorists. It's my job NBC is paying me good money to espouse the propaganda of America's enemies. So please understand, it's all about money!

    Well I was thinking of the Iraq War as a comparison. After all, a lot of "evidence" pointed to WMDs etc etc and it was very popular at the time no? (i mean, how many dems voted for it?

    That's a good point Challenger. The Iraq war turned out to be as big a disaster as the president, despite also having been popular.

    However, unlike global warming I don't beleive the majority of experts around the world were saying WMD were in Iraq.

    I don't understand why we removed Saddam. He was a great man I admired deeply!

    "I don't understand why we removed Saddam. He was a great man I admired deeply!"

    I really hate spoofers...do you know how long it takes to charge a phaser after vaporizing them?

    Most of you guys seem pretty bright. Maybe you guys could stop fighting and help me out. I have to write a paper for my economics class comparing eight different econmic systems. Finding systems as been harder than i thought it would be. Basically Wikipedia is the only help i have found.I have a list here. Are there any i am missing? and what countries (if any) use the more obscure systems (i.e. Gift economy, Mercantilism.)?

    Left-wing systems

    Non-property System
    Communism
    Anarcho-communism
    Gift economy
    Socialism
    Libertarian socialism
    Market socialism
    State socialism
    (Is anrachism a type of economy economy?)

    Right-wing systems

    Feudalism
    Capitalism
    Anarcho-capitalism
    Laissez-faire capitalism
    Corporate capitalism
    (Is facism an economy or just form of government?)

    mixed systems

    Mixed economy
    American School
    Mercantilism
    Social market economy

    Help would be appreciatted as i have hit kind of a wall. Thanks

    Libertarian socialism

    How can there be Libertarian Socialism when Libertarians belive in free markets.

    Is facism an economy or just form of government?)
    Facism is a form of governmnet. Basically a Police or Military regime with a relative free market. Today's China, Russia, Vietnam and Pinochet's Chile are examples

    "However, unlike global warming I don't beleive the majority of experts around the world were saying WMD were in Iraq.

    Posted by: Anonymous at January 11, 2007 2:59 PM"

    You might want to rethink that and look back at the year or two before the Iraqi invasion.

    I read or heard from many credible sources that Intelligence Services around the world from Egypt, Jordan, Israel, England, France, Germany, Poland, Russia, and our Intelligence under both Presidents Clinton and Bush all thought that Hussein was working on nuclear to varying degrees of success and had other WMD.

    We now know that except for some biological none was found.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Feudalism should be Leftwing since it's Vassals depended on Lords. Radical Socialism is a form of Feudalism since it makes people dependent on government. Rightwing is more about self reliance.


    How can there be Libertarian Socialism when Libertarians belive in free markets.


    Yes, they are oxymorans. the word libertarian was added to it in France in the 19th century because the country banned anarchist writings. For whatever reason, the word stuck. The system does not belive in free markets but is vastly different from state socialism in that it does not believe there shold be a state.(in that sence it is somewhat anarchist.) Rather, it believes there should be a series of unions and social binding programs that run the country.


    Ok that makes sence since Libertarianism in an extreme form is anarchy.

    Feudalism should be Leftwing since it's Vassals depended on Lords. Radical Socialism is a form of Feudalism since it makes people dependent on government. Rightwing is more about self reliance.


    i think you're right. I must have made the mistake because those systems have kings. But that is a type of government and not economy. thanks.

    actually here's another question i cant understand. How can anarchism and socialism both be on the left? Most states that have used socialist systems like the USSR, China, North Korea, seem to have some of the strictist governments in the world. That seems to be the complete opposite of anarchism.

    actually here's another question i cant understand. How can anarchism and socialism both be on the left? Most states that have used socialist systems like the USSR, China, North Korea, seem to have some of the strictist governments in the world. That seems to be the complete opposite of anarchism.


    True, but both are concerned with creating equality at some level. In the case of Anarchism, it is super-equality achieved by having no rules. Whereas socialism is a more moderate, enforced equality.

    EE, your post seemingly referring to some middle ages guy I couldn't even remember why I remembered the name intrigued me.

    I think you and Godwin have a point and it is a good guideline. Not a universal truth and if used sparingly and judiciously sometimes has no substitute.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Fourteen members of an advisory board to Jimmy Carter's human rights organization resigned on Thursday to protest his new book, which criticizes Israeli policy in the Palestinian territories.


    yeah, what is the deal with Jimmy lately? Its one thing to bring awareness to Palestinian suffering, but you cant just say its the jews fault. Put it into some context. Isral's Olmert has basically told them there will be a Palastine nation if they come to the table (and take death to Israel out of their charter), and since then they have turned on each other. How is that Israel's fault?

    I think Robert Cox should make a challange to Olbermann.

    If he has one true-blue person who disagrees with him on his show (cant be one of his buddies, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a republican). Just one person with an opposite view and Cox will stop doing Olbermannwatch altogether. I think that would be a fair compromise.

    Your concept of 'compromise' and 'fair' above has left me speechless. No mean feat.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Kurt Kissel at January 11, 2007 12:05 PM
    ------------
    when did this become oreillywatch?

    anon: 3:20

    another you forgot is Liberation theology. (Or Christian Socialism). This too may seem like an oxymoron but actually the U.S., India, and a few others are the only nations where the left and religion have secularized. The most prominent member may be Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. Here, Chavez talks about how religion has influenced his socialism:

    He [Jesus] accompanied me in difficult times, in crucial moments. So Jesus Christ is no doubt a historical figure — he was someone who rebelled, an anti-imperialist guy. He confronted the Roman Empire… Because who might think that Jesus was a capitalist? No. Judas was the capitalist, for taking the coins! Christ was a revolutionary. He confronted the religious hierarchies. He confronted the economic power of the time. He preferred death in the defense of his humanistic ideals, who fostered change… He is our Jesus Christ.—Hugo Chávez ”
    “ Capitalism is the way of the devil and exploitation. If you really want to look at things through the eyes of Jesus Christ — who I think was the first socialist — only socialism can really create a genuine society.—Hugo Chávez

    once again people you cannot compare KO w/ BO

    BO is what he claims to be...a commentator who gives opinions

    KO is claimed to be a news anchor with no bias and expressing facts, not opinions

    it is comparing steak to oranges

    it is comparing steak to oranges

    that sounds delicious by the way.

    "I think Robert Cox should make a challange to Olbermann."

    I miss our host.

    Hey, Bob Cox! Where are you?

    once again people you cannot compare KO w/ BO

    BO is what he claims to be...a commentator who gives opinions

    KO is claimed to be a news anchor with no bias and expressing facts, not opinions

    it is comparing steak to oranges

    Posted by: Anonymous at January 11, 2007 4:32 PM

    You are correct anonymous... It is impossible to claim a man with an intellect (Keith Olbermann) with a man who spews off Republi-fascist talking points like they are his own (bill o'Reilly.)

    "I think Robert Cox should make a challange to Olbermann."

    I miss our host.

    Hey, Bob Cox! Where are you?"

    Posted by: Cecelia at January 11, 2007 5:00 PM


    He's out with his lackie, Johnny FRAUD, having some 'secret' (Shhhh.... Don't tell anybody! They are BOTH still-in-the-closet Republi-Fascists) Gay Sex!!

    LOL!! I like your style, Alf...

    Where have all of you Right Wingers gone? Are you afraid to speak up because your President made such an ass of himself last night?

    :-(
    boohoohoo...

    the liberal uses gay sex to attack people. sounds like a homophobe to me. Maybe he should be Proud to be a NAZI.

    Actually whats funny, is that you should be proud to be a NEW liberal or a Social liberal. The classical "liberal" represents modern-day republican views far more than it does democrat views.

    True liberals vs. new liberals

    "Liberalism is an ideology, philosophical view, and political tradition which holds that liberty is the primary political value. Liberalism has its roots in the Western Age of Enlightenment, but the term has taken on different meanings in different time periods

    Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights. It seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power (especially of government and religion), the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy that supports free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.[2] In modern society, liberals favor a liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law and an equal opportunity to succeed.

    Many new liberals advocate a greater degree of government interference in the free market, often in the form of anti-discrimination laws, civil service examinations, universal education, and progressive taxation. This philosophy frequently extends to a belief that the government should provide for a degree of general welfare, including benefits for the unemployed, housing for the homeless, and medical care for the sick. Such publicly-funded initiatives and interferences in the market are rejected by modern advocates of classical liberalism, which emphasizes free private enterprise, individual property rights and freedom of contract; classical liberals hold that economic inequality, as arising naturally from competition in the free market, does not justify the violation of private property rights.

    Someones upset about Bush failing. boohoohoo.

    Why dont you and Bush go cornhole eachother you goddamn faggots.

    Special Comment tonight! Maybe this will be the night Olby's blood pressure surges so high he actually has that long overdue heart attack or stroke on-air.

    Anon 2 4:32 PM, thanks. Enjoyed your posts and reading about it. Now I have a better idea of the basis for some common laments from my side of the aisle.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Brandon writes: "Special Comment tonight! Maybe this will be the night Olby's blood pressure surges so high he actually has that long overdue heart attack or stroke on-air."


    Let's hope he doesn't take the Howard Beale thing THAT far.

    I do look forward to seeing the always giggle-producing stern angry glaring look he pulls out for these things.


    Janet writes: "Anon 2 4:32 PM, thanks. Enjoyed your posts and reading about it. Now I have a better idea of the basis for some common laments from my side of the aisle."


    I await all the denunciations of Chavez's religious fanaticism.

    Facism is a form of governmnet. Basically a Police or Military regime with a relative free market. Today's China, Russia, Vietnam and Pinochet's Chile are examples
    ==================================================
    What? how dare you! We all know those systems are left-wing when fascism is solidly right-wing! Don't make me sic bob on you. (lol ok, I hope everyone saw the sarcasm there)

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    actually here's another question i cant understand. How can anarchism and socialism both be on the left? Most states that have used socialist systems like the USSR, China, North Korea, seem to have some of the strictist governments in the world. That seems to be the complete opposite of anarchism.
    ==================================================
    ding ding ding! And now you know why I keep saying that fascism is a cousin of communism and anarchy is the extreme right-wing position. Of course, some will try and argue that the first two systems can't possibly be similar because they were opposed in WWII (despite having a treaty earlier), but study any policy enactments that fascist states made and you'll see a lot in common with Hiliary and Nancy.

    But of course, a lot will try and disagree, generally using a "well everyone says so" argument or pointing out one difference between the two systems rather than doing an in depth similarities/differences total comparison.

    >Anon 2 4:32 PM, thanks. Enjoyed your posts and reading about it. Now I have a better idea of the basis for some common laments from my side of the aisle.

    thanks, i am gald you enjoyed it. Foriegn politics can get very confusing when trying to use american politics as a basis. Liberals acting like conservatives, religions preaching leftist views, unions supporting lassiez-faire. It can get very confusing.

    Grim, please don't theow me in that Briar Patch with Bob. Anything but that.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    “ Capitalism is the way of the devil and exploitation. If you really want to look at things through the eyes of Jesus Christ — who I think was the first socialist — only socialism can really create a genuine society.—Hugo Chávez
    ====================================================
    Except for...
    1) The old testament was fairly capitalist. Not quite as we would recognize it, but certainly not socalists. And Jesus is described as "the perfect jew".

    2) The new testament encourages people to give WILLINGLY. Isn't there a verse that says "and each gave according to his means" or one that says something like "give what your conscience has set aside"? I do know it says "God love a cheerful giver" not a forced one. Maybe Hugo's bible lost something in its translation???

    Anon, I have heard on occasion and in passing that the European terms for left and right are somewhat different than in American politics.

    I never heard it elaborated upon and never tried on my own to find out what it was based on.

    Thanks again.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    thanks, i am gald you enjoyed it. Foriegn politics can get very confusing when trying to use american politics as a basis. Liberals acting like conservatives, religions preaching leftist views, unions supporting lassiez-faire. It can get very confusing.
    ===================================================
    Very very true. Hence why I usually try and ask people, "how are we defining 'left and right' in this debate, since "conservative" in one country can mean something different in another.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Grim, please don't theow me in that Briar Patch with Bob. Anything but that.
    ===================================================
    Man, what did those briars do to have Bob thrown at them? (I abhor this plant violence!)

    The last I heard he was saying something about 1600 Briar Patch experts and 85% of Americans said they were dangerous and there day was coming soon.

    I had to leave. Have you ever heard a bunch of little Briars crying and begging for one more chance. Pitiful.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "I never heard it elaborated upon and never tried on my own to find out what it was based on."

    Grammie, from what my European friends have told me, the "left" in Europe is MUCH more liberal than anything we here in the States would call "left". In fact, by their standards I would be a "center" or "center-right" person.

    In Europe, the liberal is more of the "classic form" - seeking a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power (especially of government and religion), the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy that supports free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected.

    Here in the states, "American liberalism" is antisocialist, when socialism means state ownership of the basic means of production and distribution, because American liberals doubt that bases for political opposition and freedom can survive when all power is vested in the state. American liberals also doubt the feasibility of administering a socialist system. In line with the general pragmatic, empirical basis of liberalism, American liberal philosophy embraces the idea that if substantial abundance and equality of opportunity can be achieved through a system of mixed enterprise, then there is no need for a rigid and oppressive bureaucracy.

    The "right" in Europe is more moderate on many social and economic issues than American conservatives. They tend to be quite friendly to the aims of the welfare state, although concerned about a healthy business environment. However, some groups have been more supportive of a stricter libertarian or laissez-faire agenda, especially under influence from Thatcherism. European conservative groups often see themselves as guardians of prudence, moderation, history and tried experience, as opposed to radicalism and social experiments. Approval of high culture and established political institutions like the monarchy is often found in European conservatism. Mainstream conservative groups are often staunch supporters of the European Union. However, one might also find elements of nationalism in many countries. In some countries like the UK and France, conservatives may identify with a particular leader (examples include Thatcherism or Gaullism)

    I just read the "Keith's Top 10 Lies" list on this site. I expected to see actual quotes that a impartial reader could decide for themselve to be true or false.

    Instead I find volumes of editorial spin by the site administrator with embedded links to more of the same.

    The funny thing is, people looking for a pro-Olbermann site find this one instead and fill the daily blogs with more pro-Olbermann rant than anti-Olbermann rant. Just look at the salary poll at the top of the page.

    I'm not a huge Olbermann fan by any stretch of the imagination, I just think it's funny when people's actions have unintended consequences.

    Honestly, I think both political parties have become caricatured knee-jerk reactions to the other.

    Very sad for all Americans.

    Very very true. Hence why I usually try and ask people, "how are we defining 'left and right' in this debate, since "conservative" in one country can mean something different in another.


    Your pretty much right.
    For instance, a conservative simply means one who wishes to preserve the status quo OR revert to former "glory days". For instance, someone in modern Russia who wanted to revert to Socialism can be described as a conservative. Whereas in our country, conservative views simply wish to maintain and preserve the prosperity this country has experienced, and fear drastic changes (or at least changing too quickly) will damage us.

    This is profoundly different than one who is "right wing", which holds a more or less consistant set of views. It jsut so happens that in AMerica, the views of a conservatives and right-wingers overlap(i.e. capitalism, free trade). This is not true everywhere.

    Ensign... I would tend to agree with you, but, alas, your view does not account for the rise of fascism & the continued existence of at least vestiges of monarch of monarchy in Europe... I woul tend to say that Americans tend to be more moderate on most issues than Europe... While we do fight (& fight like dogs, as can be seen in this room,) over MANY issues, we do not, for instance, have 'race riots' here, (or at least, anywhere to the extent thewy have them in Europe,) & our tax & immigration issues are nothing compared to those in Europe. They also, however, have Universal Healthcare & much stronger systems of Social Welfare than we have...

    I think that the best thing to say about the differences between classical American Liberalism & Conservatism & those of Europe are that we have VERY different societies, based on different social mores & different cultures in general.

    "I'm not a huge Olbermann fan by any stretch of the imagination, I just think it's funny when people's actions have unintended consequences.

    Posted by: Truly Independent at January 11, 2007 6:36 PM"


    Truly Independent, welcome to Olbermann Watch.

    This blog is owned by Bob Cox. I've never met him, but I've become somewhat familiar with him since he started this site.

    Trust me, it was never an UNINTENDED consequence that Bob's blog became as popular with the Olbyloons as it has. He worked hard to get it noticed and linked at many blue-blog sites.

    If there's anything our dear host loves, it's as big an audience as possible.

    We miss him!

    Grammie, from what my European friends have told me, the "left" in Europe is MUCH more liberal than anything we here in the States would call "left". In fact, by their standards I would be a "center" or "center-right" person.

    Actually, you have it backwards. The classic liberal (Britain's version) is more "right-wing" than our "social liberal". The conservative party is right wing, and the Labour party represents the left (although they have become more centrist and it has led to great success.)

    The party i think you speak of that is liberal by our American standards (social liberal) is the Liberal Democrats. They are the third party but hold cosiderable power.

    I just read the "Keith's Top 10 Lies" list on this site. I expected to see actual quotes that a impartial reader could decide for themselve to be true or false.

    Instead I find volumes of editorial spin by the site administrator with embedded links to more of the same.

    Posted by: Truly Independent at January 11, 2007 6:36 PM


    I couldn't agree more with your analysis, Truly Independent, that Johnny FRAUD's 'Top Ten Lies List' is nothing but propoganda (I refer you to my comments on this very topic on Saturday, January 6, 2007...) Further, if you were to ask Johnny FRAUD who pays him, he'd tell you Robert Cox, whom I have come to understand as a typical Right Wing nutcase.(if he were honest, at least)

    It is pretty sad that this is the 'Number One Keith Olbermann Sight on the Web.' What is sadder is that this is Johnny FRAUDS best excuse for his miserable existence...

    "Trust me, it was never an UNINTENDED consequence that Bob's blog became as popular with the Olbyloons as it has."

    Sure he wanted them here (no one wants to be caught arguing in an empty room...) but did he really intend for them to be the majority? I haven't done an official head count, but at first glance the authors as a whole seem to be a slightly bluer shade of purple (not to mention the salary poll).

    Thanks for the welcome Cecelia. I like the site...it will keep me from yelling at my TV as much.

    BTW, is there anyone here who either likes both O'Reilly and Olbermann or who dislikes them both, or is it simply a case of one or the other? Just wondering.

    "The party i think you speak of that is liberal by our American standards (social liberal) is the Liberal Democrats. They are the third party but hold cosiderable power."

    Well, your mileage may vary...I was going for a very general definition of "liberal". My understanding is that the liberalism of Northern Europe is also less "left" than Central (or "Old") Europe, which is more "left" than Britain's Labour party.

    If you want to go by the core definition of "American liberalism", the only party that is four-square on that is the Libertarians. Even the Democratic party is not a true "liberal" party in the sense of the term.

    Ti, welcome and what is a 'salary roll'?

    BTW, I think you'll soon realize that what we lack in numbers is more than surpassed by quality.:)

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Oh, TI, I forgot to mention one more thing that you should know.

    If you should hear any scurrilous slanders and libels about me having icy veins and brain aneurysms, being a battleaxe, not a Grandma just a fat male Repub Karl Rove plant, inbred, a Culture of the Clan..... just ignore them. Just boys will be boys fun stuff.

    No one here would stoop that low unless it was absolutely necessary to make a point.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Why dont you and Bush go cornhole eachother you goddamn faggots.

    Posted by: PROUD to be a LIBERAL at January 11, 2007 5:50 PM

    And you call others nutcases.

    TI writes: "Sure he wanted them here (no one wants to be caught arguing in an empty room...) but did he really intend for them to be the majority? I haven't done an official head count, but at first glance the authors as a whole seem to be a slightly bluer shade of purple (not to mention the salary poll)."


    Why do you think these guys are here if not to let Olby Watchers know how they feel about their man and about the right in general?

    If you had a blog ripping Olbermann every night he was on, who would you want to read it?

    Ensign Expendable,
    Actually you are correct. In European politics the Right is divided into Conservatives and Liberals(Libertarians) They tend to be different parties but ally against the Left which is divided between Social Democrats and The Greens.
    The Far Right which are Fascists and the Hard Left which is Neo-Communist tend to be on the margins.

    Does anyone else wish we had a third party that was centrist like England's Labour Party? It saddens me that Roosevelt lost in 1912, because i would so have been a progressive Republican. Go BULL MOOSE!!!


    (post #6)

    rhayes would love this site. someone tell him in the newsbusters thread about this...

    willow here is your research....


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    Everyone,
    Olbermann will have Special Ed Comments tonight! Will he start shaking, face turn red and start to tear? Will he be taken out in straight jacket and have a brakedown? stay tuned!

    Yep, RedWolf we should not care about more soldiers being killed.. We should just sit back, be quiet and watch them come home covered in the Halliburton flag.

    Not to sound like a total political nerd, but have any of you ever watched The British House of Commons on C-span. Everything seems to revolve around one guy trying to make a funnier insult than the guy before him. Then his whole side of the room all start laughing whether it was funny or not. It's all very entertaining, but i cant imagine how they get anything done.

    If there had been more fighting in the House and Senate the last 6 years we would not be in this mess.

    Anon @ 8:02, Yes, I have and it is a hoot. I've never understood what triggers their elections. Do they call them when certain polititical parameters are met or not met. I think I've heard them use 'Vote of Confidence'.

    Actually I think their questioning sessions might be therapeutic in a way. Get all that silliness and political points for the constituents out the way and get down to business with some of the hostility bleeded off.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Anon, you made me think of something that never ocurred to me before. I think their newspapers are openly partisan in their politics.

    Are their TV shows and channels the same way? Does each political philosophy have their own KO and everyone knows and accepts that it will be biased to the hilt?

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Bill O'lielly,
    How many people die from car accidents a year? Shouldn't we care about them?

    Bill O'lielly,
    How many people die from car accidents a year? Shouldn't we care about them?

    A sad and unfortunate comparison. I see what you are trying to say, but car accidents are not the way to go.

    The proper argument goes like this (this is not my view, just the way that argument is supposed to be made) "If Americans were so rightouos about the loss of innocent life, they would do something about the 177,000 cililians that are senslessly murdered in the U.S. every year, instead of worrying about the 882 soldiers that die fighting per year in this a war with a purpose. The difference is one gets you votes and one doesn't."

    note: that murder number above is not accurate. It is supposed to 17,700. Sorry about that.

    "Ti, welcome and what is a 'salary roll'?"

    I was referring to the Salary Poll about Keith's Contract with MSNBC. A pretty large percentage believe he's "priceless." I take that to mean most repondents like him, as I have found most Republicons lacking in irony. I don't like to pigeon-hole people, but I do call 'em like I see 'em.

    "Why do you think these guys are here if not to let Olby Watchers know how they feel about their man and about the right in general? If you had a blog ripping Olbermann every night he was on, who would you want to read it?"

    I guess if my intent was simply to be provocative, you'd want Libs to read it. But by doing so and letting them respond, you are giving them a platform for expressing their views. Which is great, until they drown out your message.

    One analogy would be a guy who goes around picking fights to prove how tough he is, then he gets his ass kicked showing everyone how 'untough' he is.

    Look, I'm not declaring either side a winner here. Far from it. As far as I can tell, aside from the recent history lesson regarding various global political systems, it's a "who can shout the loudest" contest. That can be fun, but it certainly isn't changing anyone's mind.

    While not a big fan of Olbermann, I think it's great the left has a polarizing figure on TV. Lord knows the right has their guys in place guns a'blazing. And it doesn't bother me that Olbermann doesn't come out and say he is Liberal. To be honest, I hadn't noticed what he "calls" himself or his show. That's not important to me. The content and editorializing speak volumes.

    I'm not Right, Left or a Wishy Washy Centrist. I'm Truly Independent, with strong opinions that go left or right depending on the issue. Can anyone honestly say they agree with everything their party does? God, I hope not. If so, your political party is probably more important to you than your country, which is a bit backward.

    I doubt anyone here has read all this, so I'll quit now while I'm behind.

    One last note...I do think it's funny that a lot of people who hate BOR watch his show and same goes for Olby. Gluttons for punishment.

    "I guess if my intent was simply to be provocative, you'd want Libs to read it. But by doing so and letting them respond, you are giving them a platform for expressing their views. Which is great, until they drown out your message."


    Stick around. You'll see that's never been an issue.