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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    January 19, 2007
    COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN - JANUARY 19, 2007

    "COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" (8:00 P.M.-9:00 P.M. ET)

    Host: Keith Olbermann

    Topics/Guests:

    • PRESIDENT BUSH: Richard Wolffe, Newsweek
    • Bill O'Reilly VS. Stephen Colbert: Seth MacFarlane, voice of "Stewie" on "Family Guy"

    The Hour of Spin lived up to its name tonight, as Krazy Keith carefully left out half of a story to deliberately deceive his credulous viewers. Olbermann spat out the introductory patter in his best carnival barker style: the President is making US troops "human shields", according to Pelosi; China's space shot; another O'Reilly attack; a pregnant chimpanzee with no apparent father ("and no, it's not immaculate conception"); and O'Reilly ("the fraud") vs the satirizer. At this point it is incumbent on us to note that Rev Olbermann's reference to the Immaculate Conception is, like most of his references, ignorant and wrong. The concept refers to the fact that Mary was without sin, not to her divine impregnation. But stupidity will be the least of Olby's crimes on this Hour of Spin.

    MADMAN

    China destroyed one of its own space satellites, because "Mister" Bush didn't jump for an agreement that would ban such tests. But first, Pelosi's charge, that "Mister" Bush timed the surge announcement in such a way that it would make it difficult for the Dems to cut off funds for it. It was enthusiastically embraced by Krazy Keith.

    All right, stop the tivo! Just what is Keith not telling us this time? Oh, possibly the fact that he's so enamored with Madame Pelosi's dramatic charge that he didn't want viewers to know that she took it back? When asked about her GMA comments and whether she was accusing the President of timing the surge to affect political decisions on funding, she replied:

    No, I don't think the President would do that.... I don't think the President is acting for political reasons at all.

    OK, class. Why did Keith leave out the second half of this story? Why did KO not tell us that Pelosi backtracked and pretty much retracted her earlier words? Because he runs the most biased hour of news on television. But we digress. The Wolffe Man crept onto the stage to parrot OlbySpin. Isn't our foreign policy "unilateral" and "disastrous"? Oh yes, Keith. Isn't the new poll from Fox proof that Americans dislike "Mister" Bush? Oh yes, Keith. (Odd how he picked that number out of the poll, but not the one noted below in "hounds".) Didn't his last speech go over "like the proverbial lead balloon"? (Ahem. Attn Edward R Murrow of our time. There is no "proverbial" lead balloon, because there is no proverb about lead balloons. "Lead balloon" is not proverbial. It is cliched. Like everything else about The Hour of Spin.) Great thanks, of course.

    On to the Chinese satellite shot, which Olby wants to control with an unverifiable treaty--after all, the one with North Korea worked so well. Joe Cirincione, from the lefty Center for American Progress, was guest "expert". He blamed the administration for the test, because the eeevil Bush wants to "militarize" space and that scared the innocent Chinese. Besides, it's the military industrial complex, don'tcha know. You know he got Great Thanks.

    OLBY

    After we've been hectoring Olbermann all week about ignoring the trial in The Great Leak Case, tonight he bowed to our pressure and brought in Slippery Shuster. At Olby's urging, he focused on a potential juror from Lockheed Martin who happened to agree with the Iraq war, and another who called Cheney a "professional politician". Of course, since Slippery is quadruple-discredited, anything he says must be taken with a grain of salt. And no, that's not the "proverbial" grain of salt. It's just the Olby-style-cliched grain of salt. Great thanks.

    Fat Ass launched O'Reilly attack #143 with a new twist: instead of just lying about Mr Bill, or smearing him, or calling him names, or cherry-picking phrases out of context, he wants the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children to disinvite him from speaking there. You know, like Universities disinvite eeevil conservatives from being allowed to be heard. Of course, O'Reilly does more in one week on behalf of tough law enforcement for predators than Monkeymann has in his entire low-rated career. KO ran the same excerpt from the first day of coverage that he quoted from before, and then led into regurgitated video of the victim's family from this morning's Today Show.

    Stop the tivo again! We were under the impression that Countdown was above this sort of exploitation for ratings. We heard the infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann say on the radio today that he didn't want to run this interview. But those pesky producers. Somehow they just made him do it. It's the best of both worlds for Mr Merkle. He's above running the interview, but his damn bosses forced him to do it for ratings. Such is the hypocrisy of Keith "I answer to no one" Olbermann.

    #2: The miracle pregnant chimp with no apparent father (again, KO ignorantly references the Immaculate Conception), with more recycled video from NBC. Plus Robert Redford (who attacked Bush--when did an actor who praised Bush ever get such notice on Countdown?) and Lindsay Lohan. In the Media Matters Minute, the "worst person" was...Rich Little. Say what? Yes, he plans to do humor at the Washington Correspondents' Dinner without attacking Bush or the Iraq war. And such humor is outlawed on OlbyPlanet. (Blue Blog Source: Daily Kos.)

    Then the big "analysis" of O'Reilly vs Colbert, in actuality attack #144. If Olby and his sock puppet are to be believed, Colbert was funny, O'Reilly was too dumb to know Colbert was making fun of him, he didn't get off a single joke. But McFarlane did: he said Bush is "retarded". That made the discredited sports guy laugh. He probably finds pulling wings off flies a hilarious pastime as well.

    OLBY

    Hushed hounds: Of course, the big dog here is Monkeymann's failure to apologize to Simon Cowell for using a doctored tape to smear him with a lie. Olbermoronn loves to cite stories from Insight Magazine--as long as they are anti-Bush, or anti-Rove, or anti-Condi, or in any way anti-GOP. But when they make news with a story about Barack Obama's background, and the Clinton campaign is implicated, Fat Ass suddenly pretends like the magazine doesn't even exist. How about that? The capture of a top Al Sadr lieutenant? The fact that Al Sadr himself is feeling the pressure? Hate speech from an Imam? North Korea rips off tens of millions of dollars in UN funds? How about John Edwards's secretive land deal? None of these is considered news on OlbyPlanet. Just like the fact that the Fox poll KO picked one number out of also shows public support for the surge is now double what it was when Olby was trumpeting that it was only 17%. And in the ongoing scrutiny of Naked Right-Wing Propaganda Masquerading as Entertainment, somehow the discredited sports guy didn't devote an entire segment to demonizing Law and Order. An episode that ran earlier today dealt with an anthrax threat. But then, Law and Order is not on Fox.

    NAME

    Olbermann's book The book that bears Olberman's name is #4,102 at amazon.com, while "Culture Warrior" is #107. The OlbyTome is #2,742 at Barnes & Noble; O'Reilly's book is #75 there, as well as being one of 2006's top ten best sellers. On Thursday, Herr Olbermann just got whomped by Bill O'Reilly (who had nearly 3 million viewers). With all the competition eclipsed by Mr Bill's stellar ratings, Krazy Keith managed to pull out a distant, way distant, second-place finish, both in total viewers and in the critical, beloved, all-important, coveted "key demo". Tonight's MisterMeter reading: 6 [ELEVATED]


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (551) | | View blog reactions

    551 Comments

    Olbermann blaming Bush for China's anti satellite test. In his sick mind, everything is Bush!

    Olby's BOR obsession knows no bounds. He seriously needs professional help dealing with this (among other things).

    AC signed a multiyear contract for $4 million a year today. Any updates on Olby's contract negotiations?

    How come the pretzel did not hang in there ?

    I sure wish Bill O'reillys name was in the same sentence as Alan Berg.

    Rich Little is named WPITW because he refuses to insult the president? Olby's not biased, is he?

    Olby commentary on Bill O'Reilly and Steven Colbert.

    Gee does anybody in the whole universe not see how this is going to turn out?

    It's Kool-Aid marinaded red meat for the reynolds wrap sec.

    But hey, who am I to say. O'Reilly just missed 3 million Thur. night. Let's see what Olby does with The Family Guy?

    I got a feeling we are going to hear another of those "ratings don't matter rants." Monday Night.

    I don't watch it. Isn't the show on Fox? The evil Fox?

    So in a way Olby is giving time and promo to Fox and Fox News?

    Either Bill O'Reilly is a genius or Olby really is a dumbass!

    We report, you decide!

    And Johnny you forgot to mention this but remember when Olby was using that William Hung guy who got bounced from Idol? Gee maybe we get a week full of the Bush Baby next?

    That didn't look so awkward to me. More evidence that the air is thin on Olbyplanet.

    Are people on the Left so stupid to actually believe that O'Reilly was trying to be serious in either interview!?

    Wow....just wow...Liberals are less intelligent than I gave them credit for.

    Only assclowns and pedophiles like yourselves would support O'Lielly.

    What a bunch of f---ing losers.

    Did you read that O'Lielly? I don't think Kevin likes you.

    Kevin....settle down son....we cant all be like you now can we? Some of us are just stupid idiot losers, but we are at least HAPPY!

    hey big O fans lets suck down somore brewskis and go broom f--- some faggots and lefties...better do it quick before my short little attentopn span falls off

    Huh?

    Some one slap him.....he's stuck on stupid.

    Geez, if O'Reilly saved three kids from a burning building, Olbermann would condemn him for contributing to the overcrowding of our schools.

    At first, his feud was interesting, then (kinda') funny; but about now it's just pathetic.

    It's the same flock of parrots each night
    Olby's guests never put up a fight
    No balanced ratio
    Only fellatio
    There's never a guest from the right

    I do not know why on Earth this website is silent, now. Bill O' Reilly is just imploding into a frothy mess !

    Let's see. O'Reilly writes a best-selling book giving advice to kids, he pushes hard for stiffer penalties against sex offenders and goes after judges who let them off light. And Olbermann has done what, exactly for any child in this country?

    He's living with one.

    Well played, Johnny. Well played.

    Bigred: Bill O' Reilly is doing the direct opposite of what a decent reporter is supposed to do: report! This whole entire "I am looking out for you" business is not healthy for people who are supposed to be objective. O' Reilly is acting more like big brother than any real news-person is supposed to be!!!

    OWUB, don't say that too loud. KO might hear you and think you are talking about him.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    come on big O fans ..grab holt o your little attention spans between your once oppossable thumbs and middle fingers and see what you spend so much time looking at...when O'reilly and Hannity interview someone they interrupt,wave their hands and point their fingers...basic ape behavior. Before KO talks he actually listens to his guests...same with Teri Gross...try it and feel your attention span get bigger and bigger

    Bill O' Reilly is the paranoid journalist right now ... he went after Stephen Colbert, Media Matters for America, and nbc. It is getting pretty sad. Cable entertainment new was never supposed to be like this until Bill O' Reilly came along to try and ruin it all !

    Nameless: Hey ! I think a conservative stole your nick name ... I heard you say things that I never would imagine you to say in the last few days.

    Nameless: Hey ! I think a conservative stole your nick name ... I heard you say things that I never would imagine you to say in the last few days.

    My lunatic right-wing brother-in-law always watches Bill-o. Tonight he called and told me I had to switch over to FIX, that Bill-o was going Whack-o. First good advice I ever got from from my brother-in-law. Geez, Bill-o looked liked one of those characters in a Monty Python skit whose head explodes. Bill-o's infamous, insensitive and idiotic comment must have had some blow back. Keep it up, Mr. Olbermann. This is fantastic entertainment. Off for the night. I need a shower and a falafel.

    If KO is the Edward R Murrow of our time why does he and his supporters feel compelled to comment on BOR at all.

    If BOR is as bad as KO and his supporters say he is, that is a pretty low level to set for KO to top.If BOR tanks tomorrow and pulled from the air, KO will be exactly what he is and has been.

    And if KO tanks tomorrow and pulled from the air, BOR will be exactly what he is and was.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Back from my shower and I must say I falafel'ed my anus ever so delicately. I thought of Keiths tongue. My God! I am still moist.

    Nobody is going to pull Bill O' Reilly from the airwaves. For a number of different reasons. 1 reason is that they need to maintain that we are the greatest network in the world impression that I always feel that they have. To throw - off ' O' would deteriorate that somewhat. Not to mention ratings, demographics, and Bill O' Reily's ego. Bill O' Reilly will keep on the shannanigans of making fun and acting weird and ruining the hard-fought ethics that we have known cable news for.

    Wow! Falafel, Thats sooooooooo original!

    Wow! Falafel, when did that happen? Two years ago?

    And some people are still using Falafel.

    Well some people are still fighting the 2000 election.

    Maybe their favorite song is Jethro Tull's "Living In The Past"?

    Maybe they can't come up with an original thought in their head?

    Maybe their I.Q. is lower than the minimum wage in American Samoa?

    We Report! You Decide!

    Originality ! ? How long has this 'site been doing limericks for?

    Bicker,

    How long you been whining?

    My goodness. I was honestly on the fence with Olby until tonight when I finally decided to watch an entire episode again. Listen, I've mentioned many times that poltically, I could care less if a person is liberal, conservative, libertarian, WHATEVER, just so long as he or she sets those types of things aside and presents a fair progam. We all have political leanings.

    Olby can't do that - even when he tries his hardest. This guy's comical biasness is off the charts laughable. Richard Little gets Worst Person because he's invited to the WCD and won't slam the President? Bill O'Reilly (who admittedly isn't exactly a saint either) a major focal point AGAIN? Evil, Retarded President Bush in practically every segment? Ok Olby, we get it - you hate Bush. Good for you. Tell someone who still cares.

    Do I have to even mention that this guy is friends with Al Franken?

    -rl

    And Olbermann sleeps with his fans. And is now shacked up with the 20-year old daughters of aformer co-worker. I'd say that neither O'Reilly or Olbermann would win any morality award.

    Okay, I added a "s" on to the word daughter. For the record, he's only sleeping with ONE 20-year old daughter of a former co-worker. That we know about. He may have another two or three on the side.

    Sorry to bring this up Johnny Dollar.
    I despise The Olbytard as much as the next sane person, but I must take issue with your objection to his use of the word proverbial in describing a lead balloon. Dictionary.com says:
    "pro?ver?bi?al /prəˈvɜrbiəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pruh-vur-bee-uhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
    ?adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a proverb: proverbial brevity.
    2. expressed in a proverb or proverbs: proverbial wisdom.
    3. of the nature of or resembling a proverb: proverbial sayings.
    4. having been made the subject of a proverb: the proverbial barn door which is closed too late.
    5. having become an object of common mention or reference: your proverbial inability to get anywhere on time."

    Under definition #5 his usage of the word seems correct.

    Tis five months to the day.

    Posting online with no pay.

    I go to other tomes,

    Trying not to pick any bones,

    Johnny Dollar wants Bill O' Reilly's job.


    OWUB, I'll try to explain the concept in simpler terms.

    Take any two people in the world, we'll call them A and B. Both are beautiful. A has a disfiguring accident. B does not have an accident. B is no more or less beautiful than he was before A's accident.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Is this about the 11-year old child that Bill O' Reilly made fun of?

    Too many dictionaries permit corrupt usages of words to gain acceptance. Even a simple, obvious word like "throughout", which clearly means one thing, is starting to become accepted as a way to say "often" or "frequently", when what it means is in every part of. Proverbial has a specific meaning, and because lazy illiterates like Olbermann don't know the meaning and use it wrongly, that doesn't mean it's right. It may be a common usage to call something proverbial because it is an oft-spoken phrase, but it is still incorrect.

    --The Word Police

    PS: I would much rather discuss Olbermann's slanting of the news. Like how he used a comment from Pelosi that she basically repudiated and pretended that she didn't.

    George Bush can dream, can't he ?

    http://www.gocomics.com/tomtoles/2007/01/14/

    Bob,

    Your case of "Bush on the brain" is getting worse.

    Sorry to bring this up Johnny Dollar.
    I despise The Olbytard as much as the next sane person, but

    Don't worry, BobMC, with a preface like that you're definitely in the club.
    A charter member of the delusional wingnuts club!

    Johnny

    I never watch "The Colbert Report" but I was over at the website tonight to watch the O'Reilly interview when something struck me.

    Colbert opens his show doing a lot of camera twists.

    Olby does "Krazy Komments" with a boatload of camera twists.

    Colbert has been doing his show a little more than a year.

    Olby has been doing "Krazy Komments" about 4 months.

    Okay, Olby rips off Colbert? Not that it would surprise me.

    But Olby tries to pass himself off as serious.

    Colbert is satirical.

    Olby is serious during "Krazy Komments" using satirical moves from a satirical show?

    Does Keith Olbermann have one original thought in his head? Or, A CLUE!!!!!!!!

    Really folks when Olby's contract runs out why don't they replace him with 'MAX HEADROOM'!

    Why not? M.S.N.B.C. would save a little money, The Loons probibly won't notice. And we would just get to laugh a little harder!!!

    David Shuster talking to Max Headroom.

    I smell a ratings winner here.

    No need to thank me N.B.C. Just send the check to Johnny Dollar's favorite charity.

    Olbermann blames Bush, but gives China a chance. I bet if there was a Dem pres Olbermann would be condemning China. He's discreditted. He's a coward that hides under his desk!

    I tried to find something you'd enjoy, Rico, like some racist cartoon,but all I could find was this one. Especially for you, muchacho.Hope you like it.

    http://www.gocomics.com/mikeluckovich/2007/01/18/

    Olbermann is a living version of Max Headrom. If he was given money by RNV, he'd be spewing GOP talking points. But since he recieves money from Soros, DNC, Iranian Ayatollahs and China he spews their points of view. He's a hack who sells to the biggest bidder!

    Hey all you losers. I just dropped by to say hello, and wonder what the hell are you doing here on a Friday night.
    Guess you're not gettin laid.

    But at least your hate for Keith Olbermann to help you bond with each other.

    He's laughing all the way to the bank, and you're here at this pathetic site, alone on a Friday night.

    Ta ta

    Red Wolf says: Hey, I resemble that remark !

    Bob

    I just want to update you on the property tax cut going on in New Jersey, Their not working on it at the moment.

    It seems they are busy down in Trenton debating a new law the state wants to put in effect.

    Yes folks are you ready? This new law will prohibit people from using their cell phones, while riding their bicycles!!!!

    Now Bob just so I'm fair and balanced it was introduced by Republican state congressman.

    But they debated that instead of working on you're tax cut.

    So when it comes to New Jersey Bob can we.....like Frank Zappa would say you are "DUMB ALL OVER"?

    Oh and before I go I read this.

    In San Francisco at least 34 people leaped to their deaths from the Golden Gate Bridge in 2006. A sharpe increase from the average of 19 people who commit suicide from the bridge each year.

    Another 70 people tried to jump last year but were stopped by police or bridge officials.

    Wait! I thought San Francisco was a liberal utopia?

    Keith says the truth. You wingnuts hate him because of that. His influence looms larg while Falafel guys is shrinking. When Olbermann speaks, the whole world stops in awe of his great wisdom!

    Lot of really sore sheep out near Puck's house the other night.
    But at least Puck went to bed with a smile on his face.

    "He's laughing all the way to the bank, and you're here at this pathetic site, alone on a Friday night."
    here is the typical liberal nutcase spouting off the typcial liberal hypocrisy.
    if you could get your head out of your own ass and your hand out of your own crotch long enough to compose a complete thought and maybe just a little introspection and self examination you would see that it is YOU who are all alone typing with one hand your idiotic liberal vitriol while the other hand firmly grasps your own little penis ( or the back of O'Lielly's head)and see for just one second what a moron you are and as such a typical Olbermann-boy supporter you are. You leftards always think of everything in terms of genitalia and therin lies one of you most serious problems. There is obviously not enough blood in a liberal's body support both the brain and the sexual organs to run and operate simaltaneously.
    You liberal morns really are a sad sick lot. pathetic really and olbermann seems to be your pie eyed pied piper. All hail the ferret face!

    Keith Olbermann is a living God!

    Lord of the flies!

    It's funny to hear you wingnuts jump on Keith for getting on a young woman. She is of legal age, so who gives a damn? I guess you guys are bitter because you have to wake up next to an ugly woman EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIVES.

    Gnite kooks, and don't forget to watch the #1 Florida Gators hoops team beat up on Ole Miss tomorrow. GO GATORS!!!

    Olbermann is the greatest Human being of the 21st century! He's this century's Ghandi!

    "No need to thank me N.B.C. Just send the check to Johnny Dollar's favorite charity.

    Posted by: puck at January 20, 2007 12:02 AM"

    How young do you have to be to not know of the long running cartoon called Richie Rich that ran for 30 years from the 1950's to the 1980's?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richie_Rich

    Anyone using the moniker - Johnny Dollar - has got to be an idiot to not understand how foolish one looks using this title. But then all one really needs to do to know how f---ing stupid Johnny Dollar's is would be to see his page defending the anti-American anti-democracy Fox News.

    One example of the vile, sick, disgusting low lifes that Fox News hold high is the recent comments of Bill O'lielly regarding kidnap victim Shawn Hornbeck. Billo, the hero of Fox News, said the boy didn't try to escape his captor even though he had many chances to. O'Lielly said it was because he "liked the life of playing video games and watching TV" that kept him there.

    Never mind that 15yo Shawn has been sexually abused (his parents confirmed this today) since he was eleven years old by the guy that O'Lielly suggests was fun to live with.

    This scum sucking slime ball of Fox News is just doing what he and Hannity always do. Trying to grab headlines and ratings by pretending to be an authority on everything. All talk no brains!

    The last thing Bill O'Lielly is an expert on is children. Anyone who would respect and defend idiots like BillO'Lielly is pathetic at best.

    Johnny and Puck are two names from cartoons and MTV, this tells you what realm of reality they dwell in.

    Losers!

    Buffalo you are way to wound up. Maybe you should go graze for awhile.

    O'Reilly's comments were part of a speculative segment... He prefaced his statement with, "I think...".

    Your hero Olbermann talks about free speech all the time and even went on a 15 minute overblown tirade about our freedom to "think" not too long ago in one of his special-ed comments.

    His hypocrisy knows no bounds.

    O'Reilly even stated that if he was wrong, he would apologize.

    Folks, so I was trackin' that Buffalo just like you asked me to. I polished up my ole' lever action ready to do the deed. But then I noticed something. What a mangey ass buffalo I was lookin' at. So I moved in closer for a better look see. And low and behold, it wasn't even a real buffalo at all. It was a coward wearin' a buffalo outfit. I sure wasn't expectin' that, because the turds he was droppin' sure were the real deal. You all hired me to drop a buffalo, but instead I'm on the Coward Watch.

    "But when they make news with a story about Barack Obama's background, and the Clinton campaign is implicated, Fat Ass suddenly pretends like the magazine doesn't even exist."

    Johnny, where the hell have you been? First of all, Obama put all of this in his book "Dreams of My Father" - a book that you can go down to Barnes and Noble and read. Second, this thing has been circulating for weeks on right-wing blog sites (or did you forget the dust-up over Obama's middle name)?

    Now, yes Obama went to a Madrassa school. In INDONESIA. For two years. Then he went to a CATHOLIC school for two more years. Then he moved back to Hawaii and enrolled in a mainstream private school. NONE of this is unknown - it's all in his book.

    Obama is and has been a member of the United Church of Christ since 1988. Again, none of this is unknown. In effect, by propagating this you are doing EXACTLY what you accuse Democrats of doing all the time - attacking someone for their faith.

    And I question the source. Insight magazine was notorious in the 1990's for their slimy and sleazy hit pieces on the Clinton Administration. Now you're telling me with a straight face that this same rag is the first (and ONLY) one that Hillary's people run to with this "hit piece"? The AP hasn't touched it, and so far (other than a couple of opinion pieces) the only mainstream media to run with it is FOX.

    It strains the imagination to pin this on Democrats because the logic is flawed - Democratic candidates are not the ones screaming about the "great Muslim menace". Right-wing whackos are. This is completely out-of-character for Clinton and for a vast majority of the party.

    It's another crap story that is being used to "swift boat" someone.

    Read this if you can. Olbermann haters love to hate the guy who hates O'reilly.

    O'reilly loves to pass himself off as a champion of children.

    I don't think so.

    View the clip to see how f---ed up Fox News darling BillO really is.

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200701170009

    "O'Reilly's comments were part of a speculative segment... He prefaced his statement with, "I think...". O'Reilly even stated that if he was wrong, he would apologize.

    Posted by: bigred at January 20, 2007 1:26 AM"

    Look you pea brained loser, O'lielly attacked the victim while leaving the obvious kill factor of his argument out for some mysterious reason. Clearly the boy hated being raped for 4 years. How does O'Lielly miss this????

    How can O'lielly argue that a boy being sexually abused would prefer TV and video games and his parents love for being raped by a 300 pound pizzeria manager?

    All I can say is it makes sense that you would be defending O'Lielly while I am condemning him.

    O'lielly blames a child victim for being sexually abused by a pedophile for 4 years and you my friend - DEFEND Bill O'lielly

    Way to go ace, your a real hero like your buddy BillO

    a--hole!

    I agree. The Clintons are trust worth people. They're great humanitarians like my idol Keith!
    They never personally attack their opponennts!
    We on the Left can do no wrong! We are always right!

    Keith Olbermann is perfect. He's a man with no flaws. They should make a holiday after him. Olbermann feeds the homeless and has visited Aids stricken villages in Africa regulary! He's humble and would sacrifice his life for others!

    Did anyone see Olbermann's special on Dafur? His live coverage of refugees brought tears to my. I can't believe he risked his life for that story. he has a heart!

    I have to take a big shit right now. I ate all those Popeye chickens before my shift ended tonight.

    I'm really a low life jerk, who's miserable.

    The time we went there that other time with Olbermann and O'Reilly after Colbert saw us through and that was when we did that some other time other than that time when we did it the first time after we didn't do it then.

    How about that, I just made a comment more intelligent than anything else that has been made on this board since at least midnight.

    The Buffalo just took a big shit after being buffaloed by O'Reilly who he calls O'Leilly but everybody, even Puck knows Bill O is an a--hole except Bill Cody is gonna get the buffalo for Bigred and then we're gonna have us a big ole buffalo stew after we get Olbermann and O'Reilly to hold hands and sing "Suwannee River" over and over again with Geraldo playing the fiddle.

    On the Red team, we have Brandon, Puck, Benson, Bigred, Redstate, Crash, and Rico playing defensive line while Grammie and Cee are the linebackers. Ohboy and Johnny Dollar round out the team as defensive backs playing safety while Red Wolf is the water boy.

    On the Blue team, Bob is playing quarterback with Ensign Expendable and Bill O'Leilly as tight ends. Kurt Kissel gets the call as tailback while Mike is playing fullback. On the offensive line we have Proud to be a Liberal at center with Colbert, Barry Sinrod, Opama, and Indierek playing offensive line.

    When the blue team gets the ball, they never seem to make it past the Red's 40 yard line before someone fumbles. But when the Red teamgets the ball, the same thing happens to them. Nobody ever really 'scores' because everybody is always playing too much defense.

    This seems to happen over and over again no matter what penalty head referee Olbermann Us Bicker calls.

    What you rightists don't want to confront about the Chinese missile test, is that they're able to achieve these technologically impressive feats, i.e., the downing of one of their older orbiters via missile launch and strike, because they're flushed with dividend income from financing the U.S. national debt.

    The Chinese are awash in income because they're financing literally trillions of dollars of U.S. debt engendered by the current administration's neurotic obsession with taxcuts primarily designed for the wealthy during a time of war.

    A war, if you believe their mantra, that is the epoch of a grand clash between good and evil, literally the ultimate battle for the survival of freedom and Western Civilization as we know it.

    Interesting that the most grave struggle in the history of mankind evokes calls for "shopping" as a form of sacrifice from this administration, akin to the rationing and draft that America endured during World War II.

    No one takes the Administration seriously about the war in Iraq, because, even they're not taking it seriously.

    If this war was truly the grand struggle between good and evil it's being colored as, we would have a draft that would enable the U.S. to completely contain the insurgency and civil war in Iraq, a draft that could lead to the deployment of the volume of forces (500,000 to 2 million)) that are truly needed to "win", not the inane and pitifully low 21,500 more young brave warriors that are needlessly being sacrificed for political expediency.

    True leadership would have convinced the American people that indeed the United States cannot risk "losing" in Iraq, and a stoic public would accept the sacrifice needed to "win" there, however, the Administration chose to fail in Iraq "on the cheap", for fear of risking the political backlash that accompanies reality...the reality being that to "win" in Iraq, a draft is mandatory along with tax INCREASES to finance it.

    You see, you on the right can't have it all despite the Fox News paradigm of mindlessly accepting and parroting Administration talking points in an echo chamber of backslapping congratulatory giddiness that belies the obviously futile reality.

    If you're not willing to go all the way, don't go at all. Our brave troops deserve more than safe sound bites meant to instill a patina of oh so serious bravado masking political cowardice.

    "The Chinese are awash in income because they're financing literally trillions of dollars of U.S. debt engendered by the current administration's neurotic obsession with taxcuts primarily designed for the wealthy during a time of war."

    You're a f---ing moron. You don't understand economics so shut the hell up. Tax cuts have nothing to do with our deficit. Tax revenues are up since the tax cuts. Shut up. Dumb shit.

    The political maneuvering over having troops in harms way to achieve objectives outlined by The President is becoming absurd!

    We have The Speaker of The House of Representatives saying, on national TV for all the international community to hear, that she thinks The President of The United States has sent troops to Iraq for the sole purpose of politically thwarting her and her party.

    Keith Olbermann covers this story assuming that the speculation of Madame Speaker is true. Well, thank you J$ for informing me that Ms. Pelosi had indeed lied....as shown by the recanting of her statement.

    Does the "journalist" Olbermann cover this politically charged exchange?....no....he uses it as another opportunity to impugn The President.

    I hear so often from the left that the definition of insanity is doing the same ineffectual thing over and over again but expecting a different result.....Well, look in the mirror....the over-heated rhetoric that has been thrown at George Bush HAS NOT AND WILL NOT WORK! The insults to his intelligence OR the accusations he is a maniacal manipulator will not change George Bush's behavior (and I say, "Good for him!).

    We will have THREE different proposals in the Senate recommending troop caps........guess who is putting them out?....

    Obama
    Dodd
    Clinton

    3 seperate NONBINDING statements that will change nothing on the ground in Iraq. The common thread....the three are likely Democratic Presidential candidates in 2008....wow, what grand political leadership!

    Oh yeah...we also will be getting the political CYA resolutions from people up for re-election in 2008 (Hagel, Snow, Collins) that again will do nothing to change things on the ground...may I quote the silly lady from Maine (an 'R'):

    "What I'm trying to do is to work with a group of colleagues to produce a resolution that would put the Senate firmly on record as opposed to the president's plan but would do so without taking on controversial or extraneous issues that are unrelated to Iraq,"

    ON RECORD?!....How many ways do we need to know you disagree with Bush? It means NOTHING!

    So to the radical left who post here....I laugh at your pathetic position that has NO real support in the halls of power. My consistent position has a forceful person implementing it....The President of The United States. Your position of immediate withdrawl has no real force advancing it in the ruling class....Ha! All The Democrats are doing with you is playing you for dupes....you get them their power and then they do whatever they want to keep their power.....They may not even need your support in the next election cycle, leftists....How does that make you feel?

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    WASHINGTON, Jan. 18 — Ken Mehlman, the departing chairman of the Republican National Committee, warned on Thursday that his party would suffer even more devastating losses in 2008 than it did in 2006 if it did not reach out to minorities and address voter concerns about ethics.

    GOP addressing minorities and ethics?
    Better chance that Grammie will champion women's rights by coming out for Hilary Clinton.

    How's Nancy's little tuna sweatshop doing?

    You're a f---ing moron. You don't understand economics so shut the hell up. Tax cuts have nothing to do with our deficit. Tax revenues are up since the tax cuts. Shut up. Dumb shit.

    Posted by: Angry Smart Guy at January 20, 2007 8:51 AM

    Angry , yes.
    Smart, not so much.

    Like I've said many times the world would be a better place without Olbermann or Oreilly.

    Rico,do you drive to work or do you take your lunch?

    Do you realize how stupid you sound ?

    Nancy's little tuna sweatshop !

    Mehlman said that if Republican officials shrugged off the repudiation of the party in the 2006 elections they would lose the White House in 2008 and remain in the minority in Congress indefinitely. He said the party had to recommit itself to political reform, fiscal restraint and personal ethics.

    Mr. Mehlman addressed the roughly 170 members of the Republican National Committee at their annual winter meeting, a rather glum affair at a downtown hotel here. Party members are still nursing the wounds of the mid-term elections and are riven by divisions over Iraq, immigration and other issues. Members are also beginning to take sides in the contest for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008.

    A rather glum affair.
    How funny is that !
    If they think THAT was glum , they should sit and read Rico's, Grammie's Cee's and Ceals posts one day.

    Bob,

    You said:

    Rico,do you drive to work or do you take your lunch?

    The question is, more or less, a non sequitor. Almost all people have a job, and most people who have a job drive themselves there. That has nothing to do with whether or not they take their lunch.

    Try to make more sense, please. I know it's a lot to ask of a lefty.

    Wow sleeping with a 20 year old thats almost as bad as sexual harassing a coworker

    And I got a hoot that Grammie was furiously checking out anything I say here.
    Instead of looking for her objectivity, that is MIA, she's fact checking me.

    So Grammie thinks that since the CIA was formed in 47, after the war, that no CIA agents could comment about events during the war.

    And I was beginning to think you had a head on your shoulders Grammie.
    My bad !

    BTW:
    In 1947, the CIA was officially born (about a year after it had already effectively started operations), under the auspices of President Harry Truman and the National Security Act.

    Next assignment for Grammie:

    Check on the comment I made on Dec 3rd at 3:45 PM.
    There's a secret message in there for you,and for you alone.

    Bob,

    You said:

    Rico,do you drive to work or do you take your lunch?

    The question is, more or less, a non sequitor. Almost all people have a job, and most people who have a job drive themselves there. That has nothing to do with whether or not they take their lunch.

    Try to make more sense, please. I know it's a lot to ask of a lefty.

    Laughing my ass off!
    Rico took my comment to heart.
    I had a hunch you'd fall for that.
    Thanks for proving what an idiot you are.

    While you're here Rico, tell us your views on the Iraq War and your president's credibility.

    Or do you only go out on a limb and blast TV personalities?

    Bob,

    You took my comment to heart, about "Nancy's tuna sweatshops"!

    Thanks for proving what an idiot you are.

    Also, Bob,

    You don't have to make any specially designed foolish comments to trap me with because they aren't really any more stupid than your serious comments.

    Lapdog:All The Democrats are doing with you is playing you for dupes....you get them their power and then they do whatever they want to keep their power.

    Lapdog must have had amnesia the past 6 years to not realize that the GOP did the exact same thing.
    And I totally disagree what YOU think the Dems are doing.
    They've been in power a few weeks, have already accomplished more with their bills than the GOP did in 6 years.
    A fact that goes unnoticed by the lame Cee.
    The Democrats have been busy and doing their jobs and passing legislation.
    I know that's very foreign to a republican, but that's what Congress is supposed to do.
    Imagine that !


    Lapdog continues to taunt and scream and pout about the Dems not cutting funding.
    Well, the first troops of this new escalation ARE ALREADY in Iraq.
    No wonder you're screaming for them to cut funds.

    Cee:Our disingenous, amnesiac, blinders - wearing demagogue.

    Notice rico never goes out on a limb and actually SAYS anything.( a popular right wing trait at this site)

    So much easier to be just a member of the pack of wolves pouncing on a TV personality.
    ( And it's obvious that Rico is the runt of the litter)

    SoRico, here's your big chance.
    Please inform us on your Iraq War views and the credibility of your president.

    Bob,

    I'll respond...

    I agreed (DID YOU?) with the President when he said this:

    "Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.

    Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.

    Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons."

    Bob,

    I'll respond...

    I agreed (DID YOU?) with the President when he said this:

    The answer is NO.
    Just a few facts Anon( or Rico) likes to forget.
    SaddAM DIDN'T HAVE nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs.
    Plus Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
    While you were getting caught up in war fever and having all the blood drained from your brain,I realized we should have never attacked a country that didn't attack us and that there was a long history of regional feuds that the Neo-cons didn't understand what they were getting into.

    So I take no pride in being correct due to the disastrous results of the deadly decisions taken by your president,while you hopped along the propaganda train that led us into this godawful mess.

    But it is funny how you say you supported all of this and not comment what a failure it's been.
    Slipped your mind?


    Bob,

    I'm not Rico...just a periodic viewer of this site.

    I'll get to the current SORRY (but not unwinnable) state of the Iraq War...but, back to your points.

    First, those comments about Iraq were NOT made by George Bush, they were said by Bill Clinton in 1998 after he ordered a 4 day attack on Iraq.

    http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/16/transcripts/clinton.html

    At that time, I did believe the intelligence regarding Iraq.

    So, I'll ask you for clarification...did you believe Clinton in 1998?

    And if so, at which point between 1998 and 2003 did you KNOW the intelligence was wrong?

    "On the Red team, we have Brandon, Puck, Benson, Bigred, Redstate, Crash, and Rico playing defensive line while Grammie and Cee are the linebackers. Ohboy and Johnny Dollar round out the team as defensive backs playing safety while Red Wolf is the"

    GobleDeGook, I object. I should be a cheerleader. :)

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    So, I'll ask you for clarification...did you believe Clinton in 1998?

    The more important question was did Clinton take us into a war ?
    So he WAS THE smarter one, wasn't he?

    Funny how you used the old tired Hannity ploy of "gotcha".

    As I said, I take no pride in being right.
    Do you have any regret in being WRONG?

    ( something not one wingnut on this site has had the balls to admit)
    Let's see if you do .

    "O'lielly blames a child victim for being sexually abused by a pedophile for 4 years and you my friend - DEFEND Bill O'lielly

    Way to go ace, your a real hero like your buddy BillO

    a--hole!"


    I just watched the heavily edited clip of O'Reilly talking about the kidnapping case that was linked on Media Matters.

    I'm not a fan of O'Reilly's and I think Andrew Sullivan summed up what is often (but not always) the case, when he said that O'Reilly argues like "an ignorant drunk", but what I heard O'Reilly saying is that there is more to this case than meets the eye and I think he's probably right. There's some family dynamic that's askew here and saying that doesn't exculpate the kidnapper in the slightest.

    It would have been better for O'Reilly to wait and see before he spoke out on live tv, but what his critics feel is he guilty of here, is voicing something that everyone has thought and felt, but are too inhibited to state because of the latest psychological theory that's become one-size-fits-all sacroscant dogma.

    Bob writes "The more important question was did Clinton take us into a war ?
    So he WAS THE smarter one, wasn't he?"


    That's hard to analyse because their had been no eye-opening 9/11 attack that led pols to worry that groups like Atta and company (far more advanced than was thought) would be the beneficiaries of what Clinton labeled as Iraq's
    "chemical, nuclear, and biological weapons programs".

    We do know that both Clintons have stated that they thought he had those programs and that one Clinton voted to go into Iraq and that the other Clinton had been privy to all available intelligence about Iraq for an entire 8 years up until just 8 months prior to 9/11.

    "BTW:
    In 1947, the CIA was officially born (about a year after it had already effectively started operations), under the auspices of President Harry Truman and the National Security Act."

    Bobo, and these formed in 1946 CIA operatives were with President Truman in 1945 telling him that Japan was ready to surrender.

    As I said, they call them 'spooks' sometimes, but that doesn't apply in this case.

    Even after Japan decided to surrender due to the two atomic bombs used on them, there was an attempted military coup against Hirohito that came close to succeeding so that they could continue the war.

    Wrong again, Bobo.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Do you have any regret in being WRONG?"
    - Posted by: Bob at January 20, 2007 11:57 AM

    Was I and MOST experts/politicians/pundits wrong about the status of Iraq's weapons programs?

    Yes.

    Do I regret that we went to War?

    No. Based on what we knew at the time, it was the right decision.

    Did I believe the War would go much different than it has?

    Yes, I was wrong.

    But this action cannot be judged success/failure after only a few years...it will take 20-50 years before we really know if it was worth it.

    Do I think surrender/withdrawal is the answer right now?

    NO.

    Bob,

    Previous Anons were not me.

    What do I think of Iraq and the Presiden't credibility?

    W is screwing up in Iraq, I cannot disagree with that. His plan to make Iraq into a parliamentary democracy was way too ambitious. It wasn't my idea. A confederation of the three groups in that country would have been preferrable. And I do suspect that that the administration of W foolishly thought that that Jesus would help them make it all work out. Much of the insurgency is due to Iranian and Syrian operatives. Why don't we drop some cruise missiles on military bases in those two countries?

    Bush's credibility has been no good with me for a long, long time.

    Grammie,

    I have often imagined you in a cheerleader's outfit with your little pom poms:)

    Did I think going into Iraq was the right thing to do?

    Yes

    Do I regret that we went to War?

    I regret that the war has been FUBAR'ed by the Bush Administration.


    Did I believe the War would go much different than it has?

    Yes, I was wrong.

    Do I agree with Anonymous that only time will tell about the real failure or success of going into Iraq?

    Yes, and I believe utterly that it will work out strategically to U.S. advantage in the future.

    Do I expect war critics to feel this too though I have no evidence of the possibility or that war critics should not look at the evidence and say that their criticism have been born out?

    Not in the slightest. However, that does not include those people who engage in the stupidest and most fantastic rhetoric. I reserve the right to make fun of them and to trap them in their own words.

    Do I think surrender/withdrawal is the answer right now?

    No.


    "cherry-picking phrases out of context"


    Second time in 2 days you claimed this. In fact he ran the whole exhange between O'Reilly and Van Susteren. How would that be out of context? But we all know that this is just a weasel phrase used by people who are caught saying something reprehensible, like O'Reilly in this case. Many of your supportive commentators have accepted that O'Reill was out of line and have moved on. The fact that you are still supporting his outrageous statement speaks volumes.

    One of the silliest arguments from the right about the war is that "Clinton thought he had WMDs too". We keep hearing this over and over again, just like a broken record. But the argument is nothing but a red herring coming mostly from folks who wanted Clinton impeached.

    The real question should be; Would Clinton have launched a full scale ground invasion and occupation against an enemy that never really attacked OR threatened us? Would Gore have done such a thing?

    Would many of the other REPUBLICANS even have done such an incredibly stupid thing at the time? I personally don't think so!

    It took a very unfortunate combination of a very naive president totally uneducated in foreign culture and history, with a ridiculously romantical view of our military, and what it's true purpose was to create this mess. We were unfortunate enough to have the wrong guy (or people) in power at the wrong time.

    And that is why so many of us detest....not necessarily the man himself, but what he has done.....and what he might STILL do to screw things up even worse!

    The fact that so many good people believed that invading Iraq "was the right thing to do at the time" is simply a detestment to how easily people can be led in the wrong direction, especially in a time of crisis and increased nationalism. History has taught us this lesson many, many times.

    Mike writes:"One of the silliest arguments from the right about the war is that "Clinton thought he had WMDs too". We keep hearing this over and over again, just like a broken record. But the argument is nothing but a red herring coming mostly from folks who wanted Clinton impeached."

    It's certainly not a red-herring when the opposing argument is that Bush fabricated, lied about and "cherry-picked" intelligence in order to go to war and that he witheld conflicting intelligence from House and Senate Dems.

    I've always thought the cherry-picking thing to be particularly silly because that's what any elected politician does-- he/she make judgements about highly interpretive intelligence or issues based upon their own views.

    Cecelia,

    >>I've always thought the cherry-picking thing to be particularly silly because that's what any elected politician does-- he/she make judgements about highly interpretive intelligence or issues based upon their own views.

    Yeah, but it isn't just any politician that calls up his people and says, "We were attacked and I want you to tie it to Iraq"...

    > In fact he ran the whole exhange between O'Reilly and Van Susteren.

    That is false. He ran a few sentences of an exchange that lasted for about five minutes. If you want to defend Olbermann, then the least you could do is tell the truth, even if he doesn't.

    "Grammie,

    I have often imagined you in a cheerleader's outfit with your little pom poms:)

    Posted by: Rico at January 20, 2007 12:23 PM"

    Make that big pom poms.:)

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Yeah, but it isn't just any politician that calls up his people and says, "We were attacked and I want you to tie it to Iraq"..."

    Of course they would. That's what I'm saying. Politicians interpret information based upon their own world views and beliefs of a threat and the threat's precursor.

    There is the context of the conservative (I'm assuming it happened) to consider too.

    If Bush was saying.... Iraq has got "chemical, nuclear, biological weapons programs". They will likely be a source such WMDs to future Attas. Look, we were attacked and I want you to tie it to Iraq--- he's making an interpretation based upon what he (and Clinton) had already concluded to be a threat to the world, and considerably more compelling after learning there were groups who could fund, plan, and carry out a 9/11.

    You can agree with the interpretation or think it's erroneous and hate Bush for it. But you don't have to assume it to be something sinister.

    Janet,

    Have you noticed it's impossible NOT to flirt with a guy with a name like "Rico"? :D

    Celelia: "considerably more compelling after learning their were groups who could fund, plan, and carry out a 911"...

    We didn't just 'learn' about terrorists groups, what their goals and methods were, and how well funded and organized they were on 911.

    I clearly remember looking at those TV images that morning and thinking "this is the big one the've been talking about for years".

    No, the threat wasn't headline news every night, but the warnings were there, and there had been many news specials and documentaries made on the subject by that time.

    I disagree stongly with the premise that you made that a president should have been specifically looking for a tie in to a specific country. You let the evidence lead to where it leads, not where you want it to lead....anything else is irresponsible!

    "The real question should be; Would Clinton have launched a full scale ground invasion and occupation against an enemy that never really attacked OR threatened us? Would Gore have done such a thing?"

    Mike, Clinton/Gore obviously believed the intel that they had had for eight years. Bush had 911 eight months into his first term.

    I assume you believe that 911 was a seminal change for our country. If Clinton or Gore were in the exact same position how can you be certain beyond any doubt at all what they would have done.

    I can't. The only thing I know is that their rhetoric before 911 was exactly the same as GWB's rhetoric was after 911.

    With the almost universal world wide intelligence that remained constant for close to a decade would it have been criminal for a president, any president, to ignore the evidence post 911.

    Hindsight is close to perfect. But what if that intelligence had been true and we had not invaded Iraq. Tell me what likely scenarios do you predict for today, five years fromr today. And, are you absolutely certain that Al Qaeda et al would not have given us some nasty surprises here at home.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Yeah, but it isn't just any politician that calls up his people and says, "We were attacked and I want you to tie it to Iraq"..."

    Mike, you can prove this as absolute fact? Or was it started by those who might have their own agendas.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Mike,

    Let me see if I have this straight(from a day or two ago): George McGovern dropped bombs on civilians in World War II and you are mad at me over it, but not him? WTF?

    Just prooves my theory, which I have stated before at OW: liberals(and "centrists" who suffer from "their disease") never express anger at anyone other than conservatives, Republicans, and Christians. It doesn't even matter who did the bad thing(like killing civilians). You never bring up that anyone in the world should be angry at the insurgents in Iraq, either. I find your thinking to be morally warped and demented.

    (But we still always appreciate your business)

    "I disagree stongly with the premise that you made that a president should have been specifically looking for a tie in to a specific country. You let the evidence lead to where it leads, not where you want it to lead....anything else is irresponsible!"


    I don't think it's irresponsible if you believe that Iraq had what Clinton termed as chemical, nuclear, and biological weapons to gift our enemies.

    But that IS debatable. Calling Bush irresponsible is not the same as implying that he did something sinister.

    As for what we knew before it happened, of course there were things that the current and past administations could have done that might have protected us against a 9/11. Using that as an argument against my stating that the country naturally would act differently after 9/11 IS a strawman.

    Rico:

    I'm hardly 'mad' at you over that. Don't be ridiculous. I'm not 'mad' at you over anything.

    Your statement that the "only thing you still like about McGovern is that he bombed innocent civilians, no doubt killing hundreds" indicates a degree of moral deprevation I really do find very hard to comprehend.

    As for McGovern, how could I possibly be 'mad' at a serviceman doing exactly what he was told to do in the pursuit of the overall goal of defending his country, and the world? If I was going to be 'mad' at anybody, it would have to have been the policy makers who set the course, but this was a totally different time and a totally different reality, and I wasn't there to make that evaluation at the time.

    On a more personal level, Its just incomprehensible to me that the 'only' thing you would find to like about someone is that he killed innocent people. I just don't know what that says about you!

    If you respond to this, don't expect an immediate one back from me because I have to leave now.

    Professor Honeydew (Bob) states:

    "[The Democats have] been in power a few weeks, have already accomplished more with their bills than the GOP did in 6 years"

    To discuss but a few failures....
    Uh, professor....The huge tax hike on gasoline will likely be stopped in The Senate....good job in trying to raise taxes in the 1st 2 weeks, BTW!The embryonic stem cell bill will be vetoed by The President and your death party still does not have the votes to over-ride....great accomplishments!!!!

    Yes, I agree....The Minimum Wage Increase Bill will be modified for small business protections in The Senate (to suit my tastes) and Bush will sign this one into law.....
    you go George!

    Oh, and by the way, I was not duped....President Bush has tried to accomplish the goals he said he would accomplish in the 2004 election and I think he is doing a wonderful job despite the joint actions of The Democrats and the radical Islamists to stop his honorable work.

    Oh, and professor....I was so happy to see you make so many nice mistakes this morning....you still need to be brought down a few more pegs, however. Your arrogance OOZES out of the blog and you probably have the worst case of hubris I have ever seen on this site!

    Good luck with that, Honeydew!

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    We invaded Iraq . No stockpiles of WMD were found. Too bad, many of us were led to believe they would be found. As Powell predicted, we 'broke iraq'. Having been found so woefully wrong in our intelligence, now the Bush-hating Olbyloons would have us leave Iraq in a broken mess.

    "He's living with one."
    Posted by: johnny dollar at January 19, 2007 10:03 PM

    "Well played, Johnny. Well played."
    Posted by: bigred at January 19, 2007 10:04 PM

    "And could you pass the lotion over here 'bigred' I'm losing my woody."
    Posted by: johnny dollar at January 19, 2007 10:10 PM

    Hey Medwolf-

    I suggest you look around your section 8 apartment and check to see how much stuff you stole from Walmart is made in CHINA.

    No, stealing it doesn't mean you aren't supporting a communist country, Walmart still has to replace the inventory with additional purchases.

    "Just prooves my theory..."

    Oh Dear, someone is 'prooving' Rico Suave's Theory.

    We are well past the point that we can claim that "intelligence was intelligence and everyone had the same intelligence." The evidence was most assuredly cherry-picked. We know that Dubya & Co. let it be known to the intelligence community (and to Prime Minister Blair) what it wanted to be found, and we can surmise that, at best, people in the intelligence community worked to meet expectations, or, at worst, people in the intelligence community were given specific orders as to what must appear in reports. I suspect the latter, in part because over Dubya's wretched years as governor of my beloved Texas and throughout his reign in Washington, I have come to realize that if I expect the worst from Dubya, my expectations will always be met, if not exceeded. Also, this type of contrived outcome has the fingerprints of Cheney all over it. With every appointed and elected office and with every business position Cheney has ever had, facts are things which can be bent, snapped, refabricated, tossed aside. It is his SOP. Even with all of that said, more damning and more injurious is the intentional failure and the callous and calculating refusal to disclose some facts. Dubya & Co. acted as second rate prosecutors withholding exculpatory evidence from Congress and the American people. That is what l'Affaire Scooter is all about, isn't it? Sure, like Capone, we can only get at the odious and hideous Cheney and the dark and bungling Dubya through lieutenants and then only on "ancillary" charges. Still, the hidden spring of facts which might have to be dealt with in some meaningful and discomforting way by Dubya & Co. is now a raging torrent. Such facts were withheld even from Powell. Go tell it to the mountain that we weren't duped. Issue a bull that the deceit no longer matters because we can't leave behind the hideous mess we have created. But know beyond any doubt that our creation is a Frankenstein monster and that the flames of every villager in every village in America will not turn this monster into a gentleman. The question is not what can we do to cure all of Iraq's ills. Instead, the questions are: How many American and Iraqi lives do we continue to waste, how many billions of dollars do we continue to squander so that Dubya saves face? How do we avoid being so duped again by those who have come into leadership positions? As for me, one more American life is too many. One more dollar is too much. And, lastly, an abiding love and an unending quest for truth and knowledge, with some measure of discernment. Dubya & Co. didn't just happen. In our own quest for some sort of idelogical purity or in allowing ourselves to be cynically and falsely divide by the Rove and Hughes subsidiary of Dubya & Co., we allowed it to happen. Senator Kerry wasn't the only person swiftboated. We all were. In the end, the Coalition of the Willing was only us. We were too willing to be duped.

    The usual assumption driven piece, with a lot of covered ground, but at least Kurt Kissel seems to come to what is a logical point if you believe as he believes-- and that's is for defunding.

    Herer's some new ground:

    "Dubya & Co. acted as second rate prosecutors withholding exculpatory evidence from Congress and the American people. That is what l'Affaire Scooter is all about, isn't it?"

    No, that's not what "l'Affaire Scooter" is about.

    The Ultimate Lapdog for Bush says:
    Oh, and by the way, I was not duped....President Bush has tried to accomplish the goals he said he would accomplish in the 2004 election and I think he is doing a wonderful job despite the joint actions of The Democrats and the radical Islamists to stop his honorable work.

    and

    Oh, and professor....I was so happy to see you make so many nice mistakes this morning...

    It's rather difficult to pick which one of your above statements is the most ridiculous.

    Cee lives in a bubble inhabited by the very few, where the air is limited and the view is obscured.

    "All" does cover a good bit of ground, so your point is well-taken, Cee. However, the genesis of the SUBSTANTIVE elements of Scooter's crime, if he is convicted, is that one a piece of the exculpatory (or inconvenient) evidence came out, so there were consequences to pay. Those consequences were a crusade against an individual who had the unmitigated gall to tell the truth, fought largely against his wife and with amazing ferocity. As such, I am more than comfortable with saying "heart" or "core" or "genesis," and I am thankful for the critique.

    As for assumptions, that is often all we have to work on, isn't it? All tangible evidence of Dubya & Co. duplicity and deception is held by Dubya & Co., isn't it? I should be most surprised if we ever see it. At any rate, it has become axiomatic that circumstantial evidence is often a better indicia of the truth than eye witness testimony. And, the circumstantial evidence against Dubya & Co. is damning beyond a reasonable doubt. You can't fault me or anyone else for not being able to present tangible evidence when that evidence is secreted by the perpetrator, with the active aid of the perpetrators toadies, like Senators Specter and Frist (former). It takes a true idealogue or someone in the depths of denial to believe otherwise. In any case, any anger, dismay or indignation I might have has to be directed toward Dubya & Co. rather than those ardent believers who were duped and cannot, understandably, admit it (because their ideology then becomes suspect) or to those who were duped and for whom it is unbearable to admit a weakness. In the end, Dubya & Co. is an amalgamation of individuals who don't do much well, but whose mendacity is their strongest attribute.

    "fat ass, monkeymoron, monkeymann, herr, krazy"

    Jeez, who writes this blog? A twelve year old?

    "fat ass, monkeymoron, monkeymann, herr, krazy"

    Jeez, how old is "Johnny Dollar"? Twelve?

    Funny you mention that boswell. Those are all terms Olbermann himself has called other people.

    KK, all we have is circumstantial evidence because the wrong doers are wrongly keeping the evidence secret that would prove what they did so the circumstantial evidence proves that they did it and are hiding the evidence.

    Circular reasoning brought to such a point that it is dizzying. Not to mention the ad hominem assumptions used as facts that bolster the circular reasoning.

    If you ever are asked to serve on a jury please do us all a favor and decline. I would not want to be judged based on your way of determining guilt.

    Just a request. Not using paragraphs makes your posts very difficult to read. So much so that I often skip them.

    Paragrahs are based on the natural way that most people think and best can read and comprehend.

    Coul you imafine reading a book that was a 200 page long paragraph.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Bigred, you have to understand. When KO uses these terms he is just calling others as they really are.

    What were you thinking.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    You're right Grammie. Chris Wallace really is a "monkey (Jew) in a reporter suit" as our leader and hero Olbermoron said.

    I believe KO's hero, Edward R. Murrow, often denigrated other announcers in the same manner.

    Poor Kissel, he deludes himself that he is one American who has clean hands. He alone was never caught up in the post 9/11 mindset that ultimately paved the way for the Iraq invasion. What a lofty perch you maintain, Kissel. Now tell me, who is gonna win the SuperBowl?

    Poor Kissel, he deludes himself that he is one American who has clean hands. He alone was never caught up in the post 9/11 mindset that ultimately paved the way for the Iraq invasion. What a lofty perch you maintain, Kissel. Now tell me, who is gonna win the SuperBowl?

    '"All" does cover a good bit of ground, so your point is well-taken, Cee. However, the genesis of the SUBSTANTIVE elements of Scooter's crime, if he is convicted, is that one a piece of the exculpatory (or inconvenient) evidence came out, so there were consequences to pay. Those consequences were a crusade against an individual who had the unmitigated gall to tell the truth, fought largely against his wife and with amazing ferocity. As such, I am more than comfortable with saying "heart" or "core" or "genesis," and I am thankful for the critique."


    Actually, Libby is being tried for trying to impede a federal investigation by lying in testimony. Kinda harks back doesn't it...

    Fitzgerald has already said that the case does not involve any criminal activity by Libby or any other Bushie, against Valerie Plame. That's becaus he knows what happened with Plame does not meet legal standards of outting an agent.

    But you had said that the Libby case was about covering up evidence. If you'll read the Senate Subcommittee's report on the allegations made by Joe Wilson, you'll find that he never issued a written report. The FBI agents who debriefed him claim that what he wrote in his NYT op-ed does not jibe with what he told them. Too, he told everyone he had been recommended by his wife and he had.

    That Wilson claimed to have detected as fraudulent, the document linking Niger, yellow cake and Iraq and then had to admit that he never had never layed eyes on it.

    Now you may call getting the word out about this stuff merely an attempt to out Ms Plame and hurt Wilson after Wilson took it upon himself to lie in an op-ed, and that's fine. But the case certainly isn't about Bush cover-up.

    Finally, ***I'm certainly not surprised you'd write a long screed of accusations and then defend them with this:

    "As for assumptions, that is often all we have to work on, isn't it? All tangible evidence of Dubya & Co. duplicity and deception is held by Dubya & Co., isn't it? I should be most surprised if we ever see it."

    How could you NOT love Olbermann. He thinks exactly like this and thinks he's reasonable too!

    The terrorists attacked us on 9-11 because of Bush's illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003!

    Iraq was a peaceful country until Bush sent the military in to steal oil!

    Over 60 million innocent Iraqi women and children have died because of the Bush regime!

    As I sit here in Middle America in my suburban home on the Internet talking to people all over the world, I DEMAND the NeoCons stop taking away my freedoms!

    Thank you, Ms. Hawkins. My thoughts are often extremely complex, and my organization and style reflect that. To some extent, the organization and style reflect my education and training. I remember being told, in very specific terms, that a paragraph is always three (3) or more sentences. Indeed, if we follow the old "say what you're going to say - say it - say what you said" formula, we can never use substitute a single, declarative sentence for a paragraph, can we? Having said that, I know I often write above a level of comfortable comprehension for many. That is not by design. I simply prefer Hegel to Cartland, the TIMES OF LONDON to the NEW YORK POST, and my preferences betray me.

    As for jury service, only once so far .... And, I was one of only a couple of hold outs for "not guilty." As I am sure you know from listening to and watching Dubya, we Texans tend to be convicting and exeucting fools. We tend to revel in our foolishness. In Dallas County alone, tweleve (12) recent reversals on DNA evidence .... Reversals on conviction by eyewitness testimony and forensic evidence, I might add .... We are something of an embarassment to Anglo-American jurisprudence. In fact, we are all rather immune to facts, and we tend to be devoid of compassion. Again, you already know that from listening to and watching Dubya. But, don't worry. If one is an attorney, a professor or anyone with more than an associate's degree, he is highly unlikely to withstand strikes for cause. We seldom even cause a peremptory strike to be used.

    If I may say a couple of words in my defense, I think you will find my logic to be of process, not the circular type. I will admit my writing style may be a bit stream-of-"conciousness". I also refrain vulgarity. I trust you appreciate the latter.

    I second that. And would like to add that everyone knows that Cheney is actually that bastard son of Ghengis Kahn who devised a time machine so he could travel to this point in time and start a war. He was able to devise the 9/11 attacks all the while keeping these secrets from leaking to the press. You see our government does such a good job of keeping secrets. The sky is falling!!!! The sky is falling!!!! All Heil Nazi Pelosi.

    Awesome. Kurt is a self-loathing Texan. We normal Texans call those folks, "pussies". "Embarrassment to Anglo-American jurisprudence?" What the hell does that even mean? White people should do better?

    My god, your comments aren't complex, they are often incomprehensible; I assure you, there is a big difference. You don't really believe the "In defense of Elitism" crap that comes out of your mouth, do you? Maybe your just ignorant to it.

    "Having said that, I know I often write above a level of comfortable comprehension for many."

    With all those non-facts and unsubstantiated opinions you espouse, and the absence of reason, or even direction of thought, I guess I do agree that my comfort level is tenuous at best. What do I know? I prefer copenhagen to skoal.

    KK,

    There is another way to express what you call "stream of consciousness". I prefer the word "rant".

    Nice response, Professor Honeydew (Bob)....very substantive.

    I took a nap after working this morning/afternoon and I just woke up...I was amused by your post, professor.

    I have never given any indication I disagreed with The President's policies after the fact...so how could I have been duped?...UNLESS, you are speaking of his brilliant nefarious plans he and the neoconservatives are really hatching!

    You see...the lack of WMD's never bothered me because it is my opinion that Hussein still had a great desire and willingness to pursue another program and The United Nations resolutions were composed with such nonspecific language that he had been violating them for several years. We were successful in eliminating the threat...MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

    There is still no evidence to this day that intelligence was "cherry picked." ALL of the accusations and stories I have read about in the press have been from ANNONYMOUS SOURCES. Hey, when the day comes that only annonymous sources decide the guilt or innocence of people, I will look for another republic in which to live. Watergate was not only DEEP THROAT....there was EVIDENCE!

    Next, the events after Saddam was removed, although distressing and difficult, WAS NO SINGLE PERSON'S FAULT. Again, ANNONYMOUS SOURCES and Monday Morning Quarterbacks are the only people crying incompetence the last 4 years....No alternatives other than withdrawal have been given by the opposing side and that would mean surrendering millions of people to sectarian hatred and anarchy....The United States of America is better than that surrendering fool who ran from Saigon in 1975...There is still honor and pride to keep one's promises to one's allies.

    And I still lay the 3000+ dead American troops and thousands of dead Iraqis, along with the thousands wounded, at the feet of the true enemy......The radical Islamist....

    oh yeah....that entity that Olbermann, Clinton, Hagel, Kerry, Obama, Kennedy, Kucinich, Dodd, Murtha, Pelosi, Dean, Edwards, Schumer, Rangel, Sharpton, Jackson, and many many others NEVER mention in there rhetoric....Why?....because they, like the NVA and VietCong....are inconvenient parts of the story. However, they are the ones waiting for the US to leave so they may claim REAL victory and rule over millions of people who deserve better!

    This is why I keep demanding ACTION by the left....not for political advantage and not for winning an argument....but for a final conclusion to the bickering and endless sniping that makes us all look like fools.

    Any Constitutional conclusion...a law, funding restriction, draft, articles of impeachment, whatever, would be gladly accepted at this keyboard....But the underhanded political games, insults and unsubstantiated accusations must come to an end for the health of our democracy!

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    Hey, all you that vigorously defend Bush, name three things that Bush has done during his presidency that you think are a.) good, and b.) will have lasting implications after he is gone.

    ...And no 'predictions' on (a.) either. They have to already be 'good.'

    "O'lielly blames a child victim for being sexually abused by a pedophile for 4 years and you my friend - DEFEND Bill O'lielly

    Way to go ace, your a real hero like your buddy BillO

    a--hole!"

    Blames the child ? Where did O'reilly say that ?I saw the whole exchange and I heard him make clear that the kidnapper was at fault,was evil,and should be locked away for life. He disagreed with many claiming "Stocholm Syndrome" He talked with an FBI expert who said it was very rare. He also said he did not believe it in the Patty Hearst case. I did not either.You want to vilify him for any of that? He then said the case was strange. He then, making it clear it was just his opinion asked Why the boy did not try to escape ? Now that seems to be what everyone is offended by. Many take it as if he is saying the boy was a partner in this, or he liked the man. O'reilly said he had freedom to play games, ride his bike, not go to school. He also talked to police twice once to report his bike stolen. When I first heard about this my thinking was this. The guy is scum.Glad he is caught .Hope he goes away for life. Glad for both kids and family .One boy held for 4 years.Hmmm, probably tied up or locked away . I find he has freedom to come and go as please.O.K/ probably afraid and was threatened. But in the back of my mind I am thinking,gee could'nt he have made a call home.At least let his parents know he's O.K. When he talked to police should'nt he have felt safe. Was he brainwashed? Yeah I know, none of you even thought any of this. Strange things happen and everyone is different with things in their lives that are not normal.Watch Jerry Springer. Now I would like to think that if that happened to me I would have at least tried to let my folks know.But I dont know exactly what pressure the boy was under or if I would have been stronger, but I do know that my parents would have not gone on OPRAH. My father would have Made it clear for all media to stay away. But the real point is the hypocracy of KO. After all thats what we are here for. The brave KO who knocks the war and GWB every night about many things like trying to take away our rights. Some of you really believe KO is going out on a limb to risk the wrath of the evil GWB. Yet has the gall to want O'reilly fired because he gives an OPINION and asks a question.

    Hey, all you that vigorously defend Bush, name three things that Bush has done during his presidency that you think are a.) good, and b.) will have lasting implications after he is gone.

    ...And no 'predictions' on (a.) either. They have to already be 'good.'
    QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

    This website is not a defend Bush website. This website is for those of us who love to make fun of the chucklehead known as Herr Edward R Olbermoron.

    a) Kept Al Gore out of the White House
    Kept John Kerry ouf of the White House
    Removed the regime of Saddam Hussein

    b) He cut my taxes
    Nominated Roberts to the Supreme Court
    Nominated Alito to the Supreme Court

    Were I Olbermann, I too would want to see O'Reilly canned. Hell, O'Reilly beats Olbermann nightly and mightily.

    Three things.

    1)Tax Cuts helped get us out of a recession caused by the Clinton Bubble. ( recession started in March 2001)

    2)Corporate malfescence was actually prosecuted. The DOJ was actually instructed to go after Enron, Arthur Anderson, Worldcom, Tyco, Exodus Comm. etc... .

    3)The appointment of actual strict constructionists to federal bench positions including the Supreme Court. You know. Those guys who don't cite foreign or international law as precedent for US rulings.

    Here is the predictable response:

    Tax cuts for the rich tax cuts for the rich!!!!! Blah Blah Blah. Then it will be uhhhh, ummmmm, errrrr, but the republicans are the corporate stooges. Then of course, my personal favorite, Bush's appointees are racist, homophobic, backwards, blah blah blah.

    Crash:

    Thank you for proving my point about my fellow Texans. You are as Texan as a strip mall in Plano. No one, not even that (in)famous transplant from Connecticut could have done better.

    Karris56:

    I believe you are correct about Ms. Hearst. "Stockholm Syndrome," although probably slightly more common than the FBI is willing to admit, is rare and very difficult to prove. Of course, that is the beauty. Most phenomenon difficult to prove are also difficult to disprove. A wealthy Defendant and a skilled attorney can be a potent combimation.

    As for Bill-o, I also agree, although in a very different way. He is incapable of making a cogent argument and performed up to his full intellectual abilities on "Entertainment Tonight." With reference to the remarks in question, Bill-o was simply being a shock jock. Crude and disgusting, but no real substance .... No more criminal than someone urinating in his own swimming pool .... Mr. Olbermann needs to drop this particular attack against Bill-o.

    "This website is not a defend Bush website"


    Oh Really?

    "Bill-O" never hosted 'Entertainment Tonight'. Please research before smearing. Gives it more OOOMPH!

    It was 'Hard Copy'

    A 30 minute show that covered Hollywood types that is no longer on the air.

    ...But ET is.

    Born and raised in San Antonio. I'd say I am about as Texan as Sam Houston or Mirabeau Lamar, or better yet.... Stevie Ray Vaughn, ZZ Top or Steve Miller.

    BTW what freakin' point are talking about? The one where I point out that you are nothing but a pseudo-intellectual poser who thinks others actually buy his bullshit. Yep you proved your point. Self-loathers can be found in Texas too. Does it make you feel better?

    That was actually a bit underhanded...

    Most of the things named of course could be debated whether they were 'good' or not depending on your political stripe.

    All the things could also be debated whether they would have lasting effects.

    The important thing is, now I know who would actually admit to "vigorously defending Bush."

    You may not be a minority here, but you sure are when you step out into the 'real world.'

    ...But looking at your posting habits, I don't believe that happens too often.

    Many of us think not only is Bush a class A f----up, But Keith Olbermann is also third rate opinionist who has little to add to the debate.

    I love Keiths womanly hips. He's built for childbearing.

    As long as everyone is off topic, namely Olbermann bashing, let me ask the question of the hour. Why do liberal men wear thong underware in front of children?

    609:

    Of course, it was "Hard Copy." I didn't watch it often, crossing through an airport and such, but it was foolish of me to forget.

    Crash:

    Although I am more of a William B. Travis sort of guy, I knew Stevie Ray Vaughn. Really. Stevie Ray Vaughn was a friend of mine. Really. You are no Stevie Ray Vaughn. Or, so it would appear. In addition to being wildly talented, he was a true free thinker. Enough of a free thinker to adopt and be comfortable in my part of Texas.

    Now I know writes: "That was actually a bit underhanded...."

    Well you're not doing any better now with the cheapshots:

    Your opinion is now in the minority therefore you're weird.

    You're here spending time posting therefore you're weird.

    This is great and original stuff! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    To I'm Waiting...

    Easy...I could write a 10 page essay about all the good George Bush has accomplished!

    a) Bush removed Saddam Hussein from power, He removed The Taliban from power and He lowered my federal income taxes, not once, but twice.

    b) John Roberts successful appointment as Chief Justice (long may he live)....Bush signed the long overdue legislation restricting third trimester dilation and extraction procedures (so-called Partial-Birth Abortion), and lastly, he stood firm in restricting the GOVERNMENT'S human experimentation on embryos (embryonic stem cell research).

    Two asides regarding b....

    Partial Birth Abortion Bans are supported by 70% of the country according to most polls...How ironic that the left quotes Presidential approval ratings and polls about the war to try to argue Bush is NOT listening to the people and doing what they want, but the polls about abortion and other social issues like Gay Marriage are tossed aside by the same people. Like I always say....we do not govern with mob rule....either in social policy OR foreign policy!

    Also, now that placental stem cells are widely available and showing the SAME scientific potential as embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells have already been producing great medical successes, George Bush will likely be shown to be right when he firmly believed that, as a society, we did not have TO SETTLE for the unethical human experimentation requested by scientists....We are better than that and there has been NO impediment to the advance of medical progress because we kept our humanity.

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "Why do liberal men wear thong underware in front of children?"


    Because they have nothing to hide...

    He he, Cecelia...that was a good one!

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "Easy...I could write a 10 page essay about all the good George Bush has accomplished!"

    And I could write a 10-page essay about how much of a top-flight screw up George Bush is.

    - His "Clean Air", "Clean Water" and "Healthy Forest" initiatives that made the air dirtier, the water more polluted and denuded the forests (to the point where even the "hook and bullet" sportsman crowd is complaining about it).

    - The appointment of Michael Chertoff as Homeland Security Director and Michael Brown as head of FEMA - two Mikes that didn't have half a brain between them. How else do you explain the tens of BILLIONS of dollars currently unaccounted for in the DHS budget?

    - The anti-gay marriage amendment, the flag desecration amendment, the insertion of the federal government into the Terri Schiavo case...

    It's hard to believe, but Keith is actually more of an idiot than I thought.

    BO played the segment for laughs, and it was mildly amusing. The meetings were also very friendly: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-oreilly20jan20,1,2300983.story?page=2&cset=true&ctrack=1

    Apparently, it's Keith who doesn't get the joke. Nothing new...

    Cecelia, it definitely makes one think that their plums may actually be prunes.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Why do liberal men wear thong underware in front of children?"

    Because they have nothing to hide...

    Posted by: Cecelia at January 20, 2007 6:48 PM

    What's underware? Something Conservicons cook with?

    Cecelia, it definitely makes one think that their plums may actually be prunes.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    ...And you'd know!

    "...He removed The Taliban from power"

    Cee-You might want to read up on what is going on in Afghanistan right now.

    Just curious-

    I'd like to hear from anyone here that supports Bush that would describe themselves as 'non-religious.'

    I'm sure there's got to be some, right?

    (aside from Rico that is, who already admitted to not being a good Christian.)

    "Many of us think not only is Bush a class A f----up, But Keith Olbermann is also third rate opinionist who has little to add to the debate."

    Posted by: Roger Ebert at January 20, 2007 6:21 PM

    I agree with you for the most part, however, the first sentiment has a lot scarier implications for the entire world and especially Americans.

    Two Thumbs Down!

    Kurt,

    Hell I am glad I am not Stevie Ray Vaughn. No really. I am glad I don't have a heroin or cocaine addiction. I am glad my chicklets don't look like I was born in 16th century Great Britain. I am also glad I don't steal rehearsed lines from loser VP candidates.

    I knew Lloyd Bentson and he was a true Texas douchebag and you sir ARE just like Lloyd Bentson.

    Boy that was way over my head.

    Olbermann is a human rights leader! He once confronted The President of China on Human Rights abuses. Don't insult the great Humanitarian! How dare you!

    Chicken Blogger, I go beyond describing myself as non religious. I am NON RELIGIOUS.

    The maddest my husband ever got at me in over 40 years was when we were walking into the church for my son's wedding practice with several members of my daughter-in-law's family. They were very religious group and very active in the church.

    I commented, and it turned out to be too loud, that I should have called the church and told them to get a 4 hour million dollar policy from LLoyds of London because no doubt an act of God was going to destroy church because I showed up.

    Several months ago I commented to Cee and Cecelia that I start in a 180 degree opposite place yet wind up in the same place.

    Some of you guys are starting to believe your own propaganda.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Great...metamorphs...I HATE metamorphs.

    Shove off, poser. It's not funny.

    "Why do conservative men wear thong underwear in front of children?"


    Two Words:

    Child Inticement

    "Some of you guys are starting to believe your own propaganda."

    It wasn't a 'baiting' question, I really wanted to know!

    I was expecting there to be some. But, so far you are the only one to post.

    I'll be curious to find out how many others...

    So, Grammie, would you describe yourself as a:

    "Secular Humanist?"
    Any set of beliefs that promotes human values without specific allusion to religious doctrines.

    (Boo's and Hiss's coming from the O'Reilly Crowd)

    Olbermann is a great hero. He once saved a child from Genocide in Dafur. That special got him UN recognition. He's a hero to billions!

    So, Grammie, would you describe yourself as a:

    "Secular Humanist?"
    Any set of beliefs that promotes human values without specific allusion to religious doctrines.

    Do you or do you not take your orders directly from the Pope, Senator Kennedy?

    Cecelia,

    I would love to run for Teddy's senate seat if only to ask him this question during a debate:

    Senator Kennedy, in what religious faith are you a member in good standing?

    Rico,

    Then you'd be guilty of doing to him what was unfortunately done to his brother.

    Cecelia,

    I don't think you understood my question for him. Did you?

    "Cecelia,

    I don't think you understood my question for him. Did you?"

    Evidently, not. Sorry.

    Cecelia,

    I will explain. Teddy spent his younger years banging bimbos while the wife was alone with the children. On the weekend when Mary Joe Kopechne was drowned Teddy and a group of his top aides, all married men, were partying with a group of "secretaries", all single. I don't think they were playing scrabble. Teddy has been a big time boozer his entire adult life. He is as pro abortion as a person can be. I would hope that any Catholic priest would respond to the question "Is Teddy a member of the Roman Catholic faith in good standing?" would respond with the words "Hell no!".

    "Why do liberal men wear thong underware in front of children?"

    What's underware? Something Conservicons cook with?

    Posted by: at January 20, 2007 7:41 PM

    Only if they're doing dinner for one...

    Cee says: ...I could write a 10 page essay about all the good George Bush has accomplished!

    a) Bush removed Saddam Hussein from power, He removed The Taliban from power and He lowered my federal income taxes, not once, but twice.

    How many times can this dude be wrong in one day,...a week...Too many to count !

    When you look at the civil war that is tearing Iraq apart, it's not hard to understand why Saddam was important for keeping these simmering regional differences under control. He was also a buffer between iran and Iraq.
    Iraq is now in much worse shape than when Saddam was in charge.
    Not to mention the lack of electricity,clean water etc.
    Many people are now starting to question how smart it was getting rid of saddam when you see what has taken place since he's been gone.


    Lapdog also lists removing the Taliban as an accomplishment.
    removed them from where?
    The Taliban has had a resurgence in Afghanistan and is coming back as strong as ever.They have now taken over the government functions.
    So including this as a success of Bush's just goes to show how stupid Cee thinks we are, or rather how uninformed he is.

    Lapdog is also so proud that Bush lowered his taxes.
    George Bush is the only president in history that has lowered taxes when the US has been at war.
    Lowering taxes when you're at war, when we still have record deficits, when we haven't fixed social security or medicare is one of the most irresponsible things a president can do.

    But Lapdog is pleased that he THINKS he has a few more bucks in his pocket !

    The rise of property taxes in this country, and especially where I live, have swallowed up any gain from federals tax cuts.

    And there is no debate that Bush's tax cuts overwhelmingly benefit the richest Americans. This according to a study by the Tax Policy Center:

    The top tenth of 1 percent, whose average income is $5.3 million, would save an average of $82,415. Those in the top group would see their tax bill cut 4.8 percent, while Americans at the center of the income distribution - the middle fifth of taxpayers, who will earn an average of $36,000 this year - could expect a 0.4 percent reduction in their tax bill, or about $20.

    Those who make less than $75,000 , which includes about 75 percent of all taxpayers , would save, at most, $110 each. Those making more than $1 million would save, on average, almost $42,000.

    $110! Whoppee ! And Lapdog does cartwheels !

    Despite administration claims to the contrary, Federal Reserve economists have found these investment tax cuts haven't boosted the stock market, and the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation has found that any economic benefits of the cuts are eventually likely to be outweighed by the reduction in national savings due to our still astronomical Federal government deficits.

    Bing bang boom.
    Three of Bush's BIGGEST successes aren't really successes afterall, just another delusional orgy in Dr. Lapdog's head !

    Rico,

    Well, I think that's between God, Kennedy, and his priest.

    that's right thanks to Bush Millionares like George Soros can use their money to attack Bush! What an idiot Bush is, giving money to his enemies!

    Bush's credibility has been no good with me for a long, long time.

    Posted by: Rico at January 20, 2007 12:20 PM

    Yet you spit and hollar at KO when he says this very same thing.
    Only at the Olbermann Watch !

    Bob,

    Property taxes have nothing to do with Uncle Sam, and you know it. I see you have been learning the art of deception from Krazy Keith.

    Art of deception?

    Was property taxes my only point?

    Rico, wrong again .

    Rico,
    You're Bushbot. Don't you know Bush is the reason Propert taxes are high! He orders the counties to raise them so the Middle class can suffer! Bush controls everything. Can you Reichwingers see through the lies!

    Bob,

    Here's the difference between me and Krazy Keith. I want the mission in Iraq to succeed and Keith never did. Just like you, I presume.

    Well I don't want the mission to succeed. I want it to fail so Bush looks bad! I cried when Zarqawi dies. He's real hero, not a zero like Bush!

    Bob,

    So it doesn't count because it was just a "litle white deception"?

    Bob,

    I see somebody is misbehaving in your name. Shame on them. I hope it's not you, Red Wolf. I would be very disappointed if it were.

    Rico,
    Bush is the cause of all the world's problems! From Cancer to Aids, from Earhquakes to Hurricans. Even dissappearances on mountains, Bush is responsible. It's his fault the Chargers lost to the Patriots. He had a lot to do with that to.
    Bush has powers that you don't know about. You poor Faux news watching fool! Bush also cause the extinction of Dinosaurs!

    No, I don't think so. Actually, I've never thought about defining myself in any such sense.

    I was born and raised catholic, going to parochial school K - 6 and an all girl private catholic prep school 7 - 12. So, I'm sure my thinking has been shaped to one degree or another by that. But in what might be called a philosophical sense.

    I oppose abortion on demand not for religious reasons but because I think it weakens the value we place on innocent life and all the things that can flow from that.

    I oppose having children outside of marriage being condoned and encouraged because historically, going back to virtually every culture, mankind has always had methods for family units because that is the best way to protect and raise children. And I've seen nothing in our country for the last 40 years that has changed my mind. In fact, I've seen a lot that reinforces my original ideas.

    I believe our country has truly been the shining light on the hill. And anything that threatens it is expendable without a second thought on my part. I feel for babies and children who are being slaughtered in Iraq by fanatics of their own religion. But not to the point that I would even consider threatening the safety of the US.

    With that said, I also believe we shouldn't pull out suddenly with no provisions or thought to what will happen there if we do. First, because it will rightfully encourage our enemies to question our will. Second, it is important as the country we are to not have a repeat of Vietnam after our pull out.

    And the rising tide of Islamo Fascism is a serious threat in my mind. Hitler told the world for years what his intentions were and the rest of the world refused to believe him. Well, the Muslims have been telling us for years that there goal is our conversion or destruction. And they take every opportunity to convince us that they are serious by their actions. Just look what they do to their own over different sects of the same religion. I think of them as much human as a roach walking through my house. Squash it and forget it.

    If you really want to assign me a label, I report, you decide.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    It's probably is that Redstate loser. He's done this before. He's a scumbag! It mocks us progressives because he's an evil Fascist! Like all you chicken hawks!

    "it's not hard to understand why Saddam was important for keeping these simmering regional differences under control."
    - Posted by: Bob at January 20, 2007 10:54 PM

    let me translate...

    "I hate Bush so much that I will make an argument FOR dictatorships just to spite Bush...oh and Bush is a dictator!", Bob

    Bob,

    Here's the difference between me and Krazy Keith. I want the mission in Iraq to succeed and Keith never did. Just like you, I presume.

    Posted by: Rico at January 20, 2007 11:05 PM

    Just like me eh?...and KO too.
    We both want the mission in Iraq to fail, according to our clairvoyant, Rico.

    You presume wrong, as usual.
    First of all the mission in Iraq has already failed.Wishing and ahoping and apraying ain't gonna change reality, muchacho.
    Dusty Springfield isn't going to help you neither.

    And what exactly is winning?
    No one has been able to explain that small detail to any of us.
    The best we can hope for is our troops to secure certain areas for a short period of time, and then>>>>The insurgents are back again !
    Ever try to piss in the wind?

    Plus Rico talks out of both sides of his mouth:

    "W is screwing up in Iraq, I cannot disagree with that. His plan to make Iraq into a parliamentary democracy was way too ambitious. It wasn't my idea. A confederation of the three groups in that country would have been preferrable. And I do suspect that that the administration of W foolishly thought that that Jesus would help them make it all work out.

    Bush is a dictator! He's killed 200 Million people and caused global warming!

    Red State home alone again, taking people's names and acting childish.
    How sorry is this dope !

    I meant REd Wolf.The Big Bad Red Wolf.

    Bush sucks!

    "If you really want to assign me a label, I report, you decide.

    Janet Hawkins"


    We all know the person who asked you that question has already decided everything about you.

    They just want some validation for their presuppositions and a little fodder laid out here on the board to point at and criticise.

    Red Wolf is so embarrassed and bored with his own posts that ( with a few pints of courage)he takes on others names like a 3rd grader.

    Red Wolf: Total Embarrassment

    Bush is evil. He's killing the Polar bears!

    Red Wolf sucks!

    "First of all the mission in Iraq has already failed."
    - Posted by: Bob at January 20, 2007 11:16 PM

    THIS mindset is why I'm not a Liberal...

    way to piss on the efforts of the U.S. military.

    Conservatives suck!

    They just want some validation for their presuppositions and a little fodder laid out here on the board to point at and criticise.

    Posted by: Cecelia at January 20, 2007 11:20 PM

    If there ever was anyone at this site that just lurks around and then points to and criticize people, it's Cecilia.
    No mirrors in your home, Cecilia ?

    He is going to do it, one way or the other.

    Seems like we upset someone earlier with the thongs, nothing and prunes. Wonder why he is so supersensitive on the point. After all, it is all about nothing.:)

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    The Iraq war sucks!

    Bob,

    Your dingbattery continues. If there ever was even a nanosecond in which you wanted the mission in Iraq to succeed, then say so. Right here, right now. If you don't, then you didn't.

    But you need to confess to your deceptive statement about property taxes and to then retract it. Otherwise I get to call you a "lying liar".


    Rico,

    Well, I think that's between God, Kennedy, and his priest.


    Posted by: Cecelia at January 20, 2007 10:58 PM

    Very excellent and correct answer cecelia.

    way to piss on the efforts of the U.S. military.

    Posted by: JustTheTruth at January 20, 2007 11:23 PM


    Way to ignore the realities that are staring you in the face, Goober.

    "Why do liberal men wear thong underware in front of children? Because they have nothing to hide..."

    Posted by: Cecelia at January 20, 2007 6:48 PM

    "Do you or do you not take your orders directly from the Pope, Senator Kennedy?"

    Posted by: Cecelia at January 20, 2007 10:33 PM

    What's underware? Something Conservicons cook with?
    "Only if they're doing dinner for one..."

    Posted by: Cecelia at January 20, 2007 10:54 PM

    Cecelia trying valiantly to single-handedly disprove the notion that conservatives don't have a sense of humor...

    But, unfortunately, just reaffirming it...

    Cecelia, you really should quit that lurking. Keep up the posting though.

    When you get a reaction like that, you know you're something right.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Rico,
    Bob is right. Bush sucks. The Iraq war sucks! Listen to his wisdom. Liberals are smarter than Conservatives. Look at Olbermann, he's one the greatest thinkers of our times! Keep watching Faux News propaganda. It blinds you to the truth. Listen to Olbermann's wisdom. He speaks the truth!

    But you need to confess to your deceptive statement about property taxes and to then retract it. Otherwise I get to call you a "lying liar".

    Rico is not too smart.
    I never retracted my property tax statement, B/C IT'S TRUE.The high cost of property taxes are not only cutting into a small federal tax cut we get but it's cutting into the ability of your average family in America to even buy groceries.

    I said I gave more than one reason why Bush's tax cuts are a farce...as you are, muchacho.

    "THIS mindset is why I'm not a Liberal...

    way to piss on the efforts of the U.S. military."

    He did not say the MILITARY failed...he said the MISSION failed. Those are two very distinct concepts that you have blurred together because it makes it easier to attack liberals.

    The MISSION was not crafted by the soldiers, but by planners at the Pentagon and other policymakers. The military was doing their job - it's not their fault they were given a plan that couldn't be achieved with the materials provided. That's the fault of the planners.

    The military is making the best out of a bad situation, but as the late Gene Autry once said, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit."

    You Bush people can't see Olby's wisdom. He's a true American heroe! He's putting his life on the line for us. He cares about us people! Unlike Bush who cares only about Halliburton!

    "Way to ignore the realities that are staring you in the face, Goober."
    - Posted by: at January 20, 2007 11:26 PM

    when the men & women of the U.S. military come home from Iraq, make sure you have your "Thanks for nothing, Failures!" sign ready

    "there ever was anyone at this site that just lurks around and then points to and criticize people, it's Cecilia.
    No mirrors in your home, Cecilia ?"

    I criticise what specific people have said and I do it to that specific person. I ask question relevant to a specific discussion already in place and I ask it of the specific person engaging in that discussion.

    I've never thrown out.. at question to opponents in general... or done the Bob speciality of trying to bully folks into answering questions based upon my declaring that they're avoiding the issue if they don't.

    We both know that's a mickey mouse tactic of looking for ammunition and the validation of our own prejudices.

    Ensign Expendable,
    Everything is Bush's fault. He's evil and must be removed from this planet.

    EE, I agree with you in one respect. The Rules of Engagement our military is fighting under is near criminal.

    Give them a free hand.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "He did not say the MILITARY failed...he said the MISSION failed."
    - Posted by: Ensign Expendable at January 20, 2007 11:31 PM

    It's only a failure if you quit trying and give up.

    Olbermann speaks the truth!

    Rico's ricoisms: (1) - 'dingbattery', (2) - "lying liar".

    I'm sure these will be added to the dictionary soon!

    "Cecelia trying valiantly to single-handedly disprove the notion that conservatives don't have a sense of humor...

    But, unfortunately, just reaffirming it..."


    Sorry you didn't like or get the joke...


    "Lying Liar" has already been invented by Al Franken. I can't take credit for that one.

    I think "dingbattery" is a pretty good word. It's insulting, without being profane. And it has a nice ring to it.

    "When you get a reaction like that, you know you're something right.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie"

    We all know, Janet.

    JusttheTruth says; "its only a failure if you quit trying and give up".

    In other words, it's not a failure if you fail as you keep trying.

    AND

    Many more dead Americans dead appearently are unimportant to those who want to keep right on trying, of course, it's not actually them who is going to do the dying and the fighting.

    You know, Cecelia, I am starting to think that liberal men really don't approve of women who have a different viewpoint and are unafraid to express them. You and I sure get a lot of personal insults and complaints. I've been accused of being a sniper, you a lurker.

    Or could it be they are so traumatized and brow beaten by liberal women they take their shots at any other women they get in their sights.

    Just a thought.
    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "If you really want to assign me a label, I report, you decide.-Janet Hawkins

    "We all know the person who asked you that question has already decided everything about you. They just want some validation for their presuppositions and a little fodder laid out here on the board to point at and criticise."

    Wrong again! Unfortunately Cecelia doesn't see the irony in her above post. She is accusing me of doing exactly what she is doing. It seems Cecelia has already decided everything about me! We all know.....They just want......Etc.

    Thanks Grammie for a thoughtful response. I don't blame you for not wanting to be described by a label. But a Secular Humanist is merely someone who wants to put 'human' values first regardless of religion (the opposite of Islamo-Fascism).

    It is quite possible to be both Conservative and a Secular Humanist, which is what you seem to describe in your own values.

    We actually disagree on very FEW points, the biggest being the performance of our President.
    I didn't presuppose anything as Cecelia suggests. I was genuinely curious, and got my answer. Thanks!


    Grammie,

    They must all be "Hilliarized". Ouch.

    "You know, Cecelia, I am starting to think that liberal men really don't approve of women who have a different viewpoint and are unafraid to express them."

    Ouch. You wound me. I may disagree with you on matters of policy, Grammie, but to my knowledge I have not engaged in personal attacks against you or Cecilia. If I have, I apologize. It is not befitting a gentleman to conduct himself in such a manner.

    Ricoism #3: "Hilliarized".

    "I didn't presuppose anything as Cecelia suggests. I was genuinely curious, and got my answer. Thanks!"

    No you weren't.

    It's only a failure if you quit trying and give up.

    Posted by: JustTheTruth at January 20, 2007 11:35 PM

    The army is looking for a few good men, and although you don't fit that requirement, they'll probably take you anyway. Bush needs bodies to send to iraq right now.The recruiting offices are taking almost anyone with a pulse.

    I'm glad that I have an archivist working for me now. Unfortunately the job is non paying.

    "I didn't presuppose anything as Cecelia suggests. I was genuinely curious, and got my answer. Thanks!"

    No you weren't.

    Posted by: Cecelia at January 20, 2007 11:48 PM

    I think I liked Cecelia the 'would be' comedian better than Cecelia the mind reader.

    "You know, Cecelia, I am starting to think that liberal men really don't approve of women who have a different viewpoint and are unafraid to express them. You and I sure get a lot of personal insults and complaints. I've been accused of being a sniper, you a lurker."


    Well, in all fairness, Grammie, I did just make a jest in the liberal male direction if you know what I mean... :D

    Inquiring Mind, if you play the odds, Cecelia would have been right about 99% of the time. And you did preface your question with the asumption that there would be very few, if any, who did not consider themselves religious.

    And if I played the odds, I would bet that the overwhelming number of oppositional posters here have a knee jerk anti Christian reaction and automatically assume any political opinion informed by a person's religious beliefs is de facto wrong and not originating from their own moral code.

    That is why I believe that I almost always wind up at the same place with religious people. The Judeo Christian ethic is very strong in my thinking most of the time.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "I did just make a jest"...pun intended....LOL!

    BAGHDAD, Iraq - At least 20 American service personnel were killed in military operations Saturday in one of the deadliest days for U.S. forces since the
    Iraq war began, and authorities also announced two U.S. combat deaths from the previous day.

    Those who favor not to withdraw, favor many more days such as these.
    "For what was gained, for what was lost."
    We are not gaining anything, but we sure as hell are losing a lot !

    "I think I liked Cecelia the 'would be' comedian better than Cecelia the mind reader."

    Oh, well...

    EE, you and Mike were not the target of the comment. I'm sure you know as well as I do who the wannabe big men are.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    In our area, we just had a gruesome decapitation murder of a young child by her own father. No, this probably won't beccome one of those handfull of cases that inexplicably become a national obsession.

    One thing stood out in my mind in reading some of the neighbors character evaluations of the father; "But he was a good Christian who went to church every Sunday", as if they thought this kind of thing would have been much more understandable if he had NOT been a Christian.

    Never mind that when this father was finally picked up, he was babbling scripture!

    "Ouch. You wound me. I may disagree with you on matters of policy, Grammie, but to my knowledge I have not engaged in personal attacks against you or Cecilia. If I have, I apologize. It is not befitting a gentleman to conduct himself in such a manner."

    Indeed you haven't, EE. You're one of the more intelligent and thoughtful people on this board.

    Leave it to Bob to gleefully interject doom and gloom at the first thought that people who disagree politically might be having a pleasant time.

    Heaven forbid he make an effort to join in.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Kerist, I have to apologize to Bob for opening my big mouth too soon.

    Goobly Gook is the real winner of the most obnoxious and unnecessary comment I've seen here in a long time.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "And you did preface your question with the asumption that there would be very few, if any, who did not consider themselves religious."

    Grammie-I didn't preface my question at all. The only 'assumptions' I alluded to were added after the questions in the following verbiage:

    "I'm sure there's got to be some, right?"

    "I was expecting there to be some. But, so far you are the only one to post."

    "I'll be curious to find out how many others..."

    That hardly sounds like I expected 'Very few, if any...'

    "If you play the odds, Cecelia would have been right about 99% of the time"

    It's never right to accuse someone of presupposition and then turn around and do it yourself. I wouldn't shoot a bullet randomly into the air, and then when it came down and killed someone, nonchalantly say, well 99 out of 100 other times that wouldn't have happened. Wrong is still wrong regardless of the 'odds.'

    ...And like I said in a previous post, some of us don't need the fear of eternal damnation to do the 'right thing.' Some of us do it for humanity's sake.

    I didn't mean to try to drive a wedge between you and Cecelia. You two 'strong,' 'opinionated,' 'conservative' women can keep on keepin' on as far as I'm concerned. Religious and Non-Religious alike.

    I would say ALL the comments on this board are probably 'unnecessary'. Nobody is changing the world here, nor is anybody changing Olbermann.

    Bob,
    I agree. Let's leave Iraq so Iran and Al-Qaeda can take over!

    I was watching that dateline special 'To Catch a Predator" where they catch pedophiles who try to hook-up with underage girls.

    Out of the 6 perp/pervs they had, one was a pastor, one was a christian youth counselor, and one had a myspace page that said 'god rocks!'

    I'm sure it was just NBC trying to make religious people look bad!

    Alf; How well do you think Iran (Shiite) and Al Qaeda (Sunni) are going to get along together once they both "take over" Iraq?

    "It's never right to accuse someone of presupposition and then turn around and do it yourself."

    Actually, I didn't make a presupposition. I judged you based upon your throwing out a guestion to bush supporters, how you framed the question, and the response you gave after having been answered.

    We both know I made the correct judgement.

    gobbledeguck,
    Al-Qaeda will take the Sunni part and Iran the Shiite part. There will be a quid pro quo. Either way they will celebrate their grate victory over the evil George Bush!

    "I'm sure it was just NBC trying to make religious people look bad!"

    And here you are merely hoping to make one of them mad. Don't you have sisters with ponytails you can pull or a phone to make prank calls?

    Alf: George Bush is the one one has defeated George Bush. After all, if you are playing a football game and you keep throwing the ball to the other team every down, it's hard to make the case that the other team actually 'won', so much as you lost.

    "Grammie-I didn't preface my question at all. The only 'assumptions' I alluded to were added after the questions in the following verbiage:

    "I'm sure there's got to be some, right?"

    "I was expecting there to be some. But, so far you are the only one to post."

    "I'll be curious to find out how many others..."

    That hardly sounds like I expected 'Very few, if any...'"

    I definitely misused 'preface'. But that verbiage indicates to me that you were operating on certain assumptions that implied [EE note :)] you didn't expect there to be many, if not any at all. I inferred [EE note again:)], correctly I believe, based on the 'right' at the end of 'theres got....be some, right'.

    No big problem that I see. We all have our own set of assumptions based on our mind sets and personal experience.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "I judged you..."

    Judge not, lest you be judged...

    Hey Cecelia?

    I judged you based upon your throwing out a guestion to bush supporters,

    (Bush Supporters are above answering Questions? I did not know that...)


    how you framed the question,

    (Tell me what you didn't like about how the question was framed, specifically, and how you would have liked it framed...perhaps you don't think the question should have been asked at all because you'd rather think all Bush supporters ARE religious, like you)

    and the response you gave after having been answered.

    (Tell me what you didn't like about the reponse, specifically, other than me calling you out for being a hypocrite.)

    Grammie was still the only one to respond by the way. Your presupposition about me, aside, we both know I was right !

    Grammie gets an A in English Composition. ;)

    And Alf (or can I call you Gordon Shumway?) gets a one-way ticket back to Melmac an a copy of "101 Recipes For Cat".

    gobbledeguck,
    Eitherway we lost! Let's negotiate a cease fire with Al-Qaeda and leave. They're more powerful and determined than we are. Besides Olbermann likes me admires their strength. We bit off more than we can chew. Hopefully Hillary will negotiate an end to this war on terror. Let's give Al-Qaeda money so they can leave us alone!

    "ARE religious, like you"

    No, assumptions there...

    Bob says it's George Bush's fault that Jon Corzine isn't giving him a property tax cut.

    Ya know anybody else I would say, what a dumb ass that is.

    But I can't, because Bob is from New Jersey.

    Did it ever make you think that Bob's I.Q. is lower than the minimum wage in American Samoa?

    Now I want everybody to know I did not call Bob an idiot. Remember Richard Cory took that name out of the New Jersey State Constitution.

    So remember folks, when you cross over into New Jersey you can't use the word idiot. Because in New Jersey, that word does not exist.

    Tra, la, la! It's a feel good thing!!!!!!!!!

    But wait folks!!! There's News from Trenton! No Bob it's not that property tax cut you've been waiting for decades.

    Wait I digress, George Bush is screwing New Jersey tax payers. But people have been complaining about their property taxes in New Jersey since the 70's?

    Wow! George Bush has been screwing people for almost 37 years?

    There's a couple of jailed ex-mayors from Camden who would like to know how he pulled that one off!!!!!

    And hey Bob? Flim, Flam Florio and
    Jim Mc Greevy they sure are all ears!

    I know this folks because I grew up in New Jersey and my dad was forever bitchin' about the taxes, and he was a democrat too!

    I left the democrats and moved out of the state!!
    Became an independent.

    My mind did clear up after I left that state,do you think they had Kool-Aid in the water. With Bob I don't know????????????

    By the way did you folks know that Mc Greevy had his boy friend as head ( Hey Bevis, he said head!) of the Home Land Security in New Jersey?
    His boyfriend didn't know squat and didn't show up at the job either.

    And this was a little after 9/11.

    But with Bob it's all good!!!!!!!

    Maybe he was tied up at one of those Motels on Rt.1&9 eh Bob?

    But back to Trenton

    It seems the state Republicans have implored Gov. Corzine to lobby felow Democrats who control the Legislature ( But George Bush is screwing New Jersey.) to approve LONG-STALLED CAMPAIGN-FINANCE reforms they contend would clean up New Jersey goverment and cut property taxes!

    Gov. Corzine had no comment.

    Why didn't Corzine just blame it on Bush?

    Did I forget to tell you folks that Corzine's girlfriend is head of one of the biggest unions in New Jersey?

    I mean the longer you can keep the people of New Jersey dumb on this one can you run the taxes through the roof.

    New Jersey is DUMB ALL OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

    But folks leave Bob alone! If you had to live in New Jersey you would be pissed 24/7 too!!!!!

    Welcome to New Jersey leave all hope for you free thinking people behind.

    But, you don't have to pump your own gas! whoopie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Goobly Gook got that story all wrong. The father was obviously a convert to Islam and was going to the mosque and was babbling Mohammad's prophecies.

    The dead give away was the decapitation.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "I'm sure it was just NBC trying to make religious people look bad!"

    And here you are merely hoping to make one of them mad. Don't you have sisters with ponytails you can pull or a phone to make prank calls?

    Posted by: Cecelia at January 21, 2007 12:28 AM

    That shouldn't make you mad Cecelia, it should make you reflective. It should help you understand that religion and morals don't always walk hand in hand.

    New Jersey may be a 'dumb' state, but I heard the average IQ did go up a notch or two as soon as Puck left.

    "ARE religious, like you"

    No, assumptions there...

    Posted by: Cecelia at January 21, 2007 12:37 AM

    I was going off of a previous post by Grammie where she indicated you and Cee were religious while she was not. Grammie wouldn't lie, would she?

    Another vain attempt...

    Goobly Gook got that story all wrong. The father was obviously a convert to Islam and was going to the mosque and was babbling Mohammad's prophecies.

    The dead give away was the decapitation.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 21, 2007 12:39 AM

    Let's not make jokes about a 4 year old's decapitation at the hand of her father, shall we? I'm sure we can all agree he was disturbed, Religious, or not.

    Chicken Blogger, insanity doesn't walk hand in hand with only a select group.

    It seems to be an equal opportuniy destroyer.

    I think the level that this madman reached has nothing to do with religion, no religion, morals, or no morals.

    If you disagree, let me know.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Religion does play a positive role in society, as long as it is kept in proper check.

    The simple truth is that some people really do need to believe that they are being guided by a higher power in order to achieve a moral compass, and some don't.

    To some, the Golden Rule is moral compass enough.

    Like I said:

    I'm sure we can all agree he was disturbed, Religious, or not.

    You were the one making a joke about him being Muslim.

    Take your own advice.

    puck,
    It's not Corzine's fault. It's Bush's! He raised the Propert Tax!

    Let ME know if you really think he's Muslim.

    Trust me Grammie, you won't find a mosque in Clayton, North Carolina, and I doubt if you will find a Muslem.

    Goodnight to all my religious and conservative, non-religious and conservative, religious and liberal, non-religious and liberal friends, and everything in between.

    Did I miss anyone?

    Oh yeah, the hypocrites, good night to you too!

    Inquiring Mind, I wasn't making a joke. But Goobly Gook was definitely trying to make an unsustainable and vicious point against those he obviously considers inferior to him.

    Note the use of Christian. I have sometimes seen neighbors in similar cases saying he seemed to be a good family man and went to church. I have never heard the phrase Christian used like that.

    And I would believe decapitation from an Islamist based on his specific religion unconnected to insanity very easily.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Inquiring Mind, I wasn't making a joke. But Goobly Gook was definitely trying to make an unsustainable and vicious point against those he obviously considers inferior to him.

    Note the use of Christian. I have sometimes seen neighbors in similar cases saying he seemed to be a good family man and went to church. I have never heard the phrase Christian used like that.

    And I would believe decapitation from an Islamist based on his specific religion unconnected to insanity very easily.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Sorry if I doubleposted. I'm not sure.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Inquiring Mind, I forgot the post I made earlier. Ny mistake.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    From Fox News:

    "They went to church every Sunday. They just seemed like a very happy, normal couple," McCreary said. "This is just so very, very shocking — and devastating."

    I'm sure if they had a chance to say he was Muslim, they most certainly would have.

    Southern Baptist perhaps?

    By the way for all you Loons heading out to that big anti war protest next sat. in D.C.

    Early forcast has it partly cloudy with a high of only in the mid-thirties.

    Well let's hope that Randi Rhoades brings Rusty Warren with her so that everybody can do "Bounce your Boobies" to keep warm.

    I hope it's on C-Span so I can see all The Boobs bouncing their boobies.

    We could call it the "Boob Boobie Booty Bounce Boogie!!!!"

    Even money that if ' posted by ' gets to the mike he/she (it's possible!) will say George Bush sent the cold front down from Canada on them.

    And people in the crowd will believe her!!!!!!!

    Wow! a whole group of people "off their trolley" in one place!!!!!!!

    I'm going! but I'll be easy to spot!

    I'll be the one in the middle of the crowd laughing his ass off while everybody else will be screaming with their veins popping out of their necks!!!!!

    A real stable crowd!!!!!!!

    No Grammie, I wasn't doing that at all. I assume no position of superiority, and the terms 'Christian' is used in that manner around here all the time. Why do you assume such things?

    The story I cited is 100% true and just happened within the last two weeks.

    My motive for bringing this up may be more that "Secular Progressives", as we are called, grow very tired of the assumptions made by many Christians that those of us who simply cannot accept the Biblical fairy tale could not possibly have a moral compass, and are therefore somehow more prone to be tempted to do evil.

    Chicken Blogger, Gook deliberately used the word 'Christian'. Supposedly, that is how the neighbors described him.

    He used the word to make what in his mind passes for a valid point.

    I don't think he was a Muslim. I do think he was insane.

    I would believe a Muslim quite capable of decapitating someone for religious reasons with no insanity involved.

    Your quote from Fox points out the distinction that I perceive between the whole truth and Gook's attempt to be a wiseass.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Guck, I just read your post that crossed with mine.

    You were trying to make a point because you don't like the assumptions about you by trying to pass a madman off as someone those rigid Christians would do what.

    That horror has nothing to do with Christianity and its believers anymore than it does with with whatever label you use to describe yourself. It was an insane act by an insane man.

    And, as you say, you were trying to jab someone because of their supposed hypocracy.

    I stand by my original statement. Your comment was obnoxious and unnecessary.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    This is so bizarre! I went back to try to figure out just where this lady
    rs. Hawkins) got that I was being a 'wiseass', and I am still dumbfounded.

    MOST of my family is Evangelical Christian, and I am essentially the "black sheep", so I think I might know a little more about the terminology used in this area than you do.

    Also, I didn't get the story from Fox News, I got from local sources and my own family. Clayton NC just happens to be my home town.

    I never said the act itself had anything to do with Christianity. I was however, taking a jab at the neighbors who thought that the man suppossedly being a Christian somehow made the act more unbelievable in their mind.

    One last point on this, Guck (sorry, I misread your name earlier). I haven't seen your name here before. You may or may not be new.

    If you are new you may not have seen the constant drum beat of the most vicious verbal assaults and accusations by many here on the left that ALL on the right are 'fundy Christonazis'.

    I am totally non religious. But I have no problems with all those who are and use their faith to inform their opinions. Neither do I have any problems with people who are not religious using other guides to inform their opinions.

    If I disagree with their conclusions, I argue that. Not deride them for their value system, with several exceptions Fascism, Communism and Islam. These are the modern belief systems that are in and of themselves dangerous and harmful to humanity as a whole.

    I think you owe the people you deliberately tried to bait an apology.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Guck, I see we are doomed to keep passing in the night.

    I come from a family of some world class Sh*t Stirers.

    If I mistook your intention, I apologise.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    For the last time, I did NOT try to 'bait' anyone!

    I made my points perfectly clear and you have somehow spun them around 100% in your own mind to suit your own purposes. I have read a lot of your posts and I truly thought that you were better than this!

    I admit I was stunned by your initial response, but I did not react defensively because I had no clue that you had so completely misread my motives and intentions.

    I felt the comment fit in rather well with some of the earlier discussions concerning religion and morality.

    And I sure as hell don't owe anybody an apology!

    Well, I guess we passed in the night one more time. I accept your apology.

    gobbledeguck,
    Don't you agree Bush is evil?

    No Alf, Bush is just dangerously incompetent.

    This incessant ' Bush is bad' has gotten tiresome. We've heard it daily for over 6 years. Please Democrats, you're in power now. Do something. Please. Now's your chance. Do something other than piss and moan. Do something for Crissakes.

    "This incessant ' Bush is bad' has gotten tiresome. We've heard it daily for over 6 years. Please Democrats, you're in power now. Do something. Please. Now's your chance. Do something other than piss and moan. Do something for Crissakes.

    Posted by: Grace Underpressure at January 21, 2007 2:06 AM"
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Hmmmm let's see:

    Bush turns world sympathy for America post 911 into hate for America by turning Iraq into a caldron of fire.

    Now Iran is way more powerful than ever do to the hate Bush created through the invasion and the dismantling of the Iraqi military which has resulted in the killing of more than 100,000 thousand innocent Iraqi men women and children.

    Bagdad sits dead smack in the middle of the planets richest oil region. And the last thing we can do is allow Iran to stay the course Bush has put them on - to become the greatest power of influence in the region. Who will fix this mess? More Jesus freaks? No f---ing way!

    Now idiots like GraceCausingFire thinks a Hannity quip will serve him/her here. As if the Democrats can repair in one month what George Bush has done over the last 4 years with $400 billion and more than 3000 dead American soldiers along with tens of thousands maimed physically and mentally. Thank Jesus lovers for this!

    Only a brain dead idiot (Grace) thinks like this. No clue what it means to hold responsible those who created this hell on earth. No, instead we get this Fox News Hannity mantra "All I ever hear from liberals is whining but they never offer a solution" as if Hannity would acknowledge any of the many alternatives offered by members of the Republican party let alone the Democratic party. Hannity is a traitor to democracy and enemy of American values. And you, Grace, are quoting him.

    Just one more typical low life who talks shit about "liberals" as though that is a shameful thing to be while giving zero recognition the devastation of lives of the countless of thousands of men women and children who have died from a failed adventure to grab control of the 2nd largest oil reserves on earth. Where in the bible does Jesus sanction such greed?

    The evil of evangelical Christianity has no end. Beware the wolves in sheep clothes.

    Cold blank non-humans who make jokes while little children cry over the corpse of their mothers in the streets of Bagdad. All by the hand of the man who says "Jesus Christ is my lord and savior" and by the hands of the devils who argue on behalf of such evils.

    Grace you are a pathetic excuse for a human being. I hope you burn in the hell of your own creation!

    Pass the Kool-aid!

    That was awesome.

    And if I played the odds,....
    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 20, 2007 11:57 PM

    And if I played the odds, I would bet that the overwhelming number of oppositional posters here have a knee jerk anti Christian reaction and automatically assume any political opinion informed by a person's religious beliefs is de facto wrong and not originating from their own moral code.

    And if I played the odds, I would bet that the overwhelming number of oppositional posters here have a knee jerk Christian reaction and automatically assume any political opinion that is not informed by a person's religious beliefs is de facto wrong and not originating from their own moral code.

    Dorna,

    Make sense of what you just wrote. Or is meant for you alone to understand.

    Sincerely,
    The Watcher of Devils

    Make sense of what you just wrote. Or is meant for you alone to understand.

    Sincerely,
    The Watcher of Devils

    Posted by: at January 21, 2007 3:04 AM
    Janet knows where the shadow goes. Goo Goo Ga joob!

    The evil of evangelical Christianity has no end. Beware the wolves in sheep clothes.

    Posted by: Devil Watching at January 21, 2007 2:49 AM

    That is exactly what they are.

    Just look at the subtle differences in the last two paragraphs and all will be (mis)understood.

    I can't wait until this thread gets picked up by the Religious Wrong tomorrow morning, a Sunday no less!

    I can't wait to see their sit & spin responses as they catch up with this thread in horror.

    Just one more typical low life who talks shit about "liberals" as though that is a shameful thing to be while giving zero recognition the devastation of lives of the countless of thousands of men women and children who have died from a failed adventure to grab control of the 2nd largest oil reserves on earth. Where in the bible does Jesus sanction such greed?

    Posted by: Devil Watching at January 21, 2007 2:49 AM

    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods must not be a commandment that "they" like.

    I was raised Catholic and taught that most of the white southern protestants were devils. Not by the nuns, by my mother who was rasied catholic in the south back when segregation was in full force. We watched it all on TV when the civil rights movement began and evolved to eventually crush this evil.

    They never let go, acknowledging the evil of their culture would be tantamount to acknowledging their sins before god - repentance.

    "The south will rise again" is code for "we will never repent"

    They are an evil culture of devils. I say this with the full understanding that "they" could be from any state or race, but if they adopt the evangelical beliefs and practices they are baptised in the evil of the culture as if they were slave owners themselves.

    Never repent, never respect any life but their own.

    ignorant devils who know they will burn in the hell of their own making.

    ignorant devils who know they will burn in the hell of their own making.

    Posted by: Devil Watching at January 21, 2007 3:20 AM

    Must have been something in that holy water. I am just sorry that the same evangelical "spirit" has taken in a large number of Catholics, who raised me to work, mind your own business, and enjoy your life and don't buy into anybobdy's bullshit about personaly knowing Gods plan. Whatever happened to "Not mine, but thy will be done."

    Just remember this:

    "The south will rise again" = "We shall never repent"

    Evangelism is a repetitious mantra - "we are the moral people"

    This is code for - we are not the spawn of segregationist who were the spawn of slave traders. (flat out denial)

    This ancient practice can be observed here on this page as they carry out long threads of denials in the tradition of the culture that spawned them.

    They are evil and they know it, this is why they stake claim to morality as though it is something you grab instead of achieve.

    Ignorant fools!

    Ignorant fools!

    Posted by: Devil Watching at January 21, 2007 3:29 AM

    ...Who build monuments to the prophets that their fathers killed. Who bless with their lips and curse in their hearts.

    Who build monuments to the prophets that their fathers killed. Who bless with their lips and curse in their hearts.

    Posted by: Donora, PA. at January 21, 2007 3:31 AM

    Exactly,

    Who bless with their lips and curse with their vote!

    Not all southerns are blind to truth many are strait up actual people who are sick of the two faced bullshit of evangelicals.

    Here is one end of that evolution:

    http://www.npr.org/dmg/dmg.php?prgCode=DAY&showDate=04-apr-2006&segNum=8&NPRMediaPref=WM

    Well, again I leave to rest and come back to see the sublime to the ridiculous.

    The ratio seems to decrease dramatically after 11PM...but Grammie tries her best to keep the discussion august. Thank you.

    Out of all the lovely examples of bigotry I was graced with today, this little assumption stung the most,

    "And like I said in a previous post, some of us don't need the fear of eternal damnation to do the 'right thing.' Some of us do it for humanity's sake."

    Such truth obscured by ignorance! I can assure you that anyone deemed "religious," follows that misguided theology of the, "Don't go to hell" card. In point of fact, those who follow the karma idea and humanist model in essence do the same thing.....the prime question is, "What does my behavior ultimately do to/for me in the future?"

    Religion (remember the origin of the word is "to bind/tie) is not mentioned by Christ and is a man-made devise...a devise that puts the self (human) as the object of highest interest.....from Humanism, to Judaism, to Buddhism, to Catholicism, to Protestantism to Islam....these and many more "philosophies" will always have very bad results when believed to be enough spiritually. But pure CHRISTianity is a different path....not self (human) centered but Yeshuah centered.

    The implications of belief on politics and policy seems to be a favorite bogeyman for many on this site....pointing out superficial hypocricies and casting judgements based on assumptions is fun and I engage in it often, myself. However, the ease of transition (some more easy than others), into bigotry and hatred ends the amusement for me.

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden


    GrouchOlbermann on Bush....

    I don't know what they have to say,
    It makes no difference anyway --
    Whatever it is, I'm against it!
    No matter what it is or who commenced it,
    I'm against it.

    Your proposition may be good
    But let's have one thing understood --
    Whatever it is, I'm against it!
    And even when you've changed it or condensed it,
    I'm against it.

    I'm opposed to it --
    On general principles I'm opposed to it!

    Fat Ass Lovers:

    He's opposed to it!
    In fact, in word, in deed,
    He's opposed to it!


    Religion (remember the origin of the word is "to bind/tie) is not mentioned by Christ and is a man-made devise...a devise that puts the self (human) as the object of highest interest.....from Humanism, to Judaism, to Buddhism, to Catholicism, to Protestantism to Islam....these and many more "philosophies" will always have very bad results when believed to be enough spiritually. But pure CHRISTianity is a different path....not self (human) centered but Yeshuah centered.
    Posted by: cee at January 21, 2007 6:47 AM

    Yes, just like I knew you would cee. Show us what "real" Christianity is. All of them are of course false except for yours because you don't believe in religion, you just believe what the Bible says. You don't believe in religion, you believe in Christ. Isn't that special. Why don't you come out of your bigot closet and say what you REALLY believe. All Catholics are decieved, "except the ones that don't follow church teaching of course, and are like you" as are the Baptists and the Lutherans etc etc... Only born again, spirit filled Christ followers of the word are "in the Lord".
    You are a member of the spiritualy special elite. You are God centered. You don't need man made rules, you have a relationship. You are the one who is decieved cee. You are a bigot.

    Hey Donora,

    Pot meet kettle.... Kettle....pot

    The ignorant Puck speaks:
    "Bob says it's George Bush's fault that Jon Corzine isn't giving him a property tax cut."

    Show me where I said that,please.
    You can't, so you just make things up !
    What Puck knows about NJ can fit on the head of a pin, but that doesn't stop his rants.

    "By the way did you folks know that Mc Greevy had his boy friend as head ( Hey Bevis, he said head!) of the Home Land Security in New Jersey?"

    Did you know that George Bush hired a Arabian Horse trainer as the head of FEMA, a much more important job than Homeland Security in NJ?
    Did you hear Hockey Puck cry about that ?
    Of course not.

    Gov Corzine is working for property tax relief. But as long as the schools are funded by the taxpayers, it's a hard road to overcome.There was just a plan being formulated to consolidate many of the school districts to save money.But parents complained,"Not with my child".So it had to be scraped, at least in Gloucester Co.
    Puck thinks he's so smart by reading headlines of newspapers about NJ, but he doesn't know squat.

    Also notice that Hockey Puck didn't mention about past two GOP governors that ran up a huge debt in NJ,( it appears the Republicans don't like fiscal responsibility) then the next Democratic governor had to pay it off.

    "Wait I digress, George Bush is screwing New Jersey tax payers. "

    Puck is such the economist.He has no clue how our national economic problems, yes created by George Bush, filters down to the quality of life of all 50 states.

    But you wouldn't hear him say a single word about the incompetence in the White House,why?
    Because, Puck is a fraud!
    And a stone cold idiot.


    If I was O'Reilly, I would be waiting for fatass keith after he got off of work one night. This f---ing mental defective cannot be hard to find since he cannot even get a drivers license and has to walk everywhere he goes. O'Reilly should knock his f---ing dick loose and then let olberman go and cry about it on his failed propaganda show. I'd pay BIG money to see it.

    A testament to the gutter mentality of some of the Olbermann haters is clear to see in a post directly above this one.

    "O'Reilly should knock his f---ing dick loose".....I wonder if this deviant even managed to graduate from high school?

    If you actually are an O'Reilly fan, you can see who your peers are right here.

    oh bobby wobby!!!

    Did the big bad puck hurt you're wittle feelings??

    Ya know folks, It gets down to this. Remember when we were all growing up and around sixteen we all thought we knew everything?

    Then as we grew older we found out there was a lot more to learn?

    So we moved on right?

    Well In Bob's case and the case of most people from New Jersey. Their minds never got past 16.

    And with each post Bob proves my point.

    That when it comes to New Jersey they are DUMB ALL OVER!!!!!

    Thank you Bob. I really don't like to work much on Sunday.

    And then Bob can't even come up with an original cheap shot.

    He has to borrow one from 'posted by (he/she)'

    Dumb, unoriginal, Ya know folks I would be afraid let Bob try to operate a gas pump. Maybe it's a good thing they don't let people from New Jersey pump their own gas. It could be dangerous.

    Oh and Bob? you bore me.

    bore (n): an uninteresting person or thing

    Just wanted to throw that in!!!!!

    Anyone else notice how this 'Puck' character can literally fill up a screen with garbage, and say virtually nothing?

    "Ya know folks, It gets down to this. Remember when we were all growing up and around sixteen we all thought we knew everything? Posted by: puck at January 21, 2007 1:13 PM"
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That's funny coming from a person using an MTV name/personality who was known for being proud for being ignorant.

    You making a reference to age as you have above is laughable do to the fact that all your post are sophomoric duds that reflect zero insights to the mechanics of democracy.

    Your 8th grade antics stick out like a sore thumb here.

    Let's revisit Dr Lapdog's claim that he could write a 10 page essay on the accomplishments of George Bush.
    One of his big ones is that he took out the Taliban in Afghanistan.( Notice Cee has been mute in responding)

    There is a new report that a few of our largest military units are being pulled out of Afghanistan, and sent to Iraq.....
    WHILE THE TALIBAN ARE IN THE PROCESS OF TAKING OVER SOME OF THE MAJOR ROADS.

    This is a success according to our resident Bush apologist, when in reality everyone who sees how the Taliban has reformed and thriving KNOWS it's been a failure.


    Plus, all the while the Iraq War was steadily going down hill, and all reports were reporting this very fact and even Sen. McCain called it a "train wreck", Lapdog was saying there was progress being made and that overall it's been a success.
    So what does that say of Cee's credibility when speaking of Iraq?
    Obviously, he has none, and he's the only one that doesn't know it.

    20 more dead US Soldiers in Iraq yesterday. Cee says,"So what,as long as I don't have to go."

    More, more, MORE, MORE !

    There's another surge happening right here in the USA, and that's in Arlington National Cemetary, where the grave diggers are working overtime in preparation for a huge influx of bodies.

    Anyone on this site who still supports continuing this war, also supports more death for our troops.

    Anyone else notice how this 'Puck' character can literally fill up a screen with garbage, and say virtually nothing?

    Posted by: gobbledeguck at January 21, 2007 1:38 PM

    We all notice and are thinking, what a waste of space !
    Puck needs to retire from this site.

    Buffalo: "That's funny coming from a person using an MTV name/personality ( Puck) who was known for being proud for being ignorant.

    Good one.Doubt Puckish will see the irony in your statement.

    Religion (remember the origin of the word is "to bind/tie) is not mentioned by Christ and is a man-made devise...a devise that puts the self (human) as the object of highest interest.....from Humanism, to Judaism, to Buddhism, to Catholicism, to Protestantism to Islam....these and many more "philosophies" will always have very bad results when believed to be enough spiritually. But pure CHRISTianity is a different path....not self (human) centered but Yeshuah centered. Posted by: cee at January 21, 2007 6:47 AM"
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What a crock of total bullshit. "Pure Christianity" ??? What the hell is that? is that like "pure Catholicism"? Or pure Islam?

    There is no such thing and your premise is all wrong. As is always the case with theist thinking.

    All primates and all canines have a practice of beating up on in some case rejecting from the social group any member, who is not in an alpha position, that hordes food. This is just one example of how social animals evolved group morals and ethics. I could go but I am certain uneducated people like you would just block it all out anyway.

    Buddha said, "I am not a god, if you worship me you only worship yourself."

    The invention of god is nothing more than the human projection of himself onto ultimate power. Another common trait/desire of all higher social animals.

    Your claim to having an understanding of what "pure Christianity' is PURE BULLSHIT!

    The illusion all major religions perpetrate is the idea of never dieing, the ultimate egotistical desire of the ego is to never die. Or so these religions (all evil) brain wash you into thinking.

    The only true biological ultimate desire of the ego is to procreate successfully. Successfully means you have offspring that are able to live long enough to have offspring. Thus here we are today.

    If this were not the case, humans would NOT be on this plant and no life would have evolved beyond the simple cell forms.

    You want to debate this?

    I dare you!

    One last thing Cee, you are about as Christ-like as any of the other low lifes here who defend the party of pimping and whoring Jesus and the bible - The Republican Party.

    Get real,

    (I gotta sign off till this evening)

    O'Reiily was the first won behind communicating the woes of....

    1) Charity Waste and Fraud after 9/11
    2) Securing the Borders
    3) Raising awareness of abused and exploted children.

    What has Citizen Keith done that has done any good at this level.

    http://www.gocomics.com/mikeluckovich/

    Many a truth is told in political cartoons.

    Little feechie supports O'Lielly.

    Funny.

    One last thing Cee, you are about as Christ-like as any of the other low lifes here who defend the party of pimping and whoring Jesus and the bible - The Republican Party.

    Ouch !

    Cee resembles that statement.

    Just a few of the lies of Bill O'Reilly:

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200407120006

    Bill Spins the Revenue from the Bush tax cuts, on September 19 2005 O'Reilly said this:

    O'REILLY: Under President Clinton, the tax rate climbed higher than at any time in history except in World War II. President Bush then came in and cut taxes for everyone. And guess what? Federal tax revenues will be more this year than at any time during the Clinton administration.

    But Clinton signed into law one federal income tax increase -- OBRA in 1993. OBRA instituted two new, upper-income tax brackets: a rate of 36 percent applied to couples making between $140,000 and $250,000 annually, and a rate of 39.6 percent applied to couples with an annual income of more than $250,000. So 39.6 percent is not even close to the highest rate since World War II. In 1955 it was 59 percent, in 1965 it was 53 percent, in 1975 it was 60 percent, and in 1985 it was 50 percent.

    Bush cut taxes in 2001 and revenue is down every year except for a slight jump in 2004 from 2003. Clinton raised taxes and revenue increased every year from 1997 to 2000. And 80% of the Bush tax cuts went to the top 20%, so when O'Reilly says Bush cut taxes for everyone he is spinning his ass off.

    Sex Offender Bill O'Reilly :

    In 2004, O'Reilly was sued by a former associate producer of his show, Andrea Mackris, for sexual harassment. He denied everything, and described Mackris' lawsuit as "the single most evil thing I have ever experienced, and I've seen a lot." He countersued for extortion, and took a public stance of no compromise. "My career could be ruined", O'Reilly said, "and I'm very well aware of that." Mackris' complaint, however, included such detailed descriptions of O'Reilly's allegedly sexually provocative phone calls, many observers suspected she may have tape-recorded the conversations. And two weeks after she filed her complaint, O'Reilly settled. "It's over, and I'm happy", said Mackris. "I can't say anything else, but I do appreciate everybody." There was no admission of wrongdoing, and the cash settlement was kept quiet as part of the agreement, but the Washington Post had reported a week earlier that Mackris had turned down offers as high as $2 million, so the final figure was presumably higher than that. The settlement also included a stipulation that Mackris would destroy any tapes of O'Reilly's alleged phone calls "if such tapes exist".

    Freechie asks; "What has citizen Keith done that he has done any good at this level?"

    Lets see, he is certainly doing his part to TRY to get us out of this INSANITY in Iraq, an endearvor infinitely more noble than anything you just cited.

    Ome to think of it, that very thing is what is making some of you very angry at him about.

    Little Screechie:
    Another discredited Olby hater at his site.

    They are all falling by the wayside.

    Anyone on this site who still supports continuing this war, also supports more death for our troops.

    Posted by: Bob at January 21, 2007 1:42 PM

    I think the ones that continue to support this war should be personally given the shovels to dig the graves of our fallen brave soldiers.

    How about it, Grammie, Cececila, Cee etc!

    What galls me and many others is how Right Wing media pundit such as Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannitty, and most of the rest WILDLY cheered on the Bush Administration during the run up to the Iraq invasion.

    As abhorrantly wrong as they all proved to be, they continue to become richer and richer. Despite their very significant role in convincing the public that this absolute lunacy was the right thing to do, people continue to actually listen to what these loosers have to say in droves.

    America is an amazing place!

    Yeah Mike, you would think being this wrong about something so grave should have ended their careers, or at least diminished them considerably.

    And it's all documented here at www.newsbusters.org.

    America is an amazing place!

    Posted by: Mike at January 21, 2007 2:33 PM

    que Theme from the Twilight Zone...

    When Rosie O'Donnell said something akin to fundamentalist Christians are as bad as fundamentalist Muslims, I recoiled. As cross-culturally judgmental as it is, I believe Christians ought to be felt called to and held to the highest standards. Besides, fundamentalism is not, per se, evil. However, so many of the truly abhorrent posts overnight and this morning do truly show that many religious people, probably fundamentalist and otherwise, often use religion as a weapon and as an excuse for not trying to love our fellow humans. When that same group of zealots tries to seize control of a government, problems follow, whether those zealots be Christian, Muslim or Jewish.

    When I was growing up in Texas, the Southern Baptists seem to predominate political and cultural life in our state, and it could be pretty miserable for a good Catholic boy. Taunts, slights, barbs, hautiness .... I would travel to other parts of the country or to Europe, and the atmosphere would be so improved. Tolerance is such a wonderful quality in a culture, sacramental in nature. Intolerance, particularly religion-derived intolerance, detroys a society. It eats at cohesion and it blocks progress.

    Of course, the situation in Texas and among Southern Baptists is much changed today. As a percentage of our population, Southern Baptists are far less significant. And, largely the Southern Baptists are far less fundamentalist than they once were, having discovered wine, women and song and even having inserted Christmas into the church year. From time-to-time we see some flare-up of intolerance, such as the Southern Baptist seminary in Fort Worth having discharged a tenure track female professor of Hebrew because women should not have authority over men in matters Scriptural. Even then, the evil behind such a decision has a certain quaint quality to it, a slide down the evolutionary ladder as it were.

    Even true fundamentalists of today are beginning to see the dangers in a religious dominated culture and government. Quickly, the core of religious support for the Republican party is "opportunistic fundamentalists," only, the whack-o Dobson's, Falwell's and Robertson's who have a personal stake, not a faith driven interest in the Republican party. And, the draw is fascinating. Republican leaders are every bit as sin-filled as Democrats. Certainly, Gingrich, Guliani, the Hillbilly Heroin and Viagra Addict and Bill-o are no poster boys for family values, anymore than a number of Democrats. And, Boxer, Obama and Pelosi have faith and family values as strong at Brownback, Romney and Jebbers.

    The intolerance of the funadmentalists of my youth is so different in degree from what we see at work in the world around us today that comparisons are risky. But even that limited experience informed me during a key developmental stage of my life that when religion and politics/government are joined at the hip, both suffer. Although I am highly patriotic, with an undying love and fealty to the Constitution and those values which made and keep America great, I am not a flag waver. My patriotism is admittedly not the "Six Pack" variety. Similarly, I struggle to be faithful to God and to my Church in a terribly secular nation. In catechism one day, it struck me that I did not feel comfortable pleadging allegiance to a piece of cloth, and I have not recited the Pledge of Allegiance since. The Church does not tell me to act in such a way, but when I order my values, cloth is not high on my list. I often think the best Americans are those who have a strong faith committment, and the best Christians in America are those who hold American values dear. There is, indeed, a strong and abiding overlap. But, our political system often fails to reflect those values and our government seldom does. Certainly not our current Administration. So, I feel I have to be vigilant to keep my government from defining my faith, much as I have to make certain I don't impose my faith upon my government. It seems to have worked well for me, and it has worked well for America when we all keep up that vigilance, when we draw that line and respect it.

    Kurt Kissel,
    Wow that was deep. Honestly keep posting here. if I don't agree with all your views, I respect your religious convictions. I was raised in a Catholic Latin Household and understand your view. Ironivcally, I'm very secular in my politivcal outlook. Either way, good post Kissel.

    "1) Charity Waste and Fraud after 9/11
    2) Securing the Borders
    3) Raising awareness of abused and exploted children.

    What has Citizen Keith done that has done any good at this level.

    Posted by: Little Feechie at January 21, 2007 2:08 PM"

    Total fabrication that has no basis in fact. This is common among the children here who find comfort at their parents side watching Fox News.

    Hannity and O'Lielly have always been blow hards who are all talk on sensitive issues.

    The three issues listed above are all issues older than O'lielly and the inception of FoxNews. Yet idiots like Feltchie here have no hesitation to post such ridiculous claims.

    And as for what Keith Olbermann has accomplished... how about we start with the creation of this page. Thank god for Keith or all us would not have the opportunity to slam little fascists like Felchie!

    FoxNews hates democracy, hates America and has one desire - the destruction of the power of the people. NewsCorp is a planetary media monopoly with billions of dollars invested in smashing democracy everywhere it can be found on this planet.

    (I'm out of here)

    Red Wolf , They bet the colts up a half point . I will take the Pats The public is usually wrong and Manning has never won the big game going all the way back to college. I am from Chicago tho and hope they go all the way. They are up 9 at the half. Go Bears.

    "The recruiting offices are taking almost anyone with a pulse."

    -Bob

    SO is this another example of, "I was trying to insult the President, not the troops." Hypocrisy at its best here. Reading the comments over the course of the last day is an enlightening experience. If you believe in God, well, you should never hold a position of any authority. I voted for Bush in 2000 because Gore is not pro-life (he used to be until higher political aspirations took hold of his heart). Bush is not 100% pro-life either. He was not what I would have considered an ideal candidate on various grounds, but he was a better choice for me.

    (There are numerous ills that need redress in this world but you have to be "alive" to be poor and downtrodden. Just yesterday, I read an account of a young woman who related her experience at the Tillman abortion clinic. She was there because she had been raped. After her horrendous experience at the clinic, she has switched her position to one of life.)

    I stated various times that based upon the opinion of those who saw the evidence, the war seemed justified. "Cherry-picked" evidence? That indicates some evidence was presented, other evidence withheld that was not favorable to the Administration's position. What evidence was withheld? Who was it that saw this evidence and then stated if I had known that, I would have never voted yes? When Kerry stated that if he knew what he does now, he would not have voted yes, it seems he was referring to the progression of the war, not any evidence that was withheld.

    Support for the war did not wane dramatically when no WMD's were found. The war has gone on longer than most people anticipated. Many people directly or indirectly know of a family who lost a loved one or has an injured family member. I recall President Bush stating early on that it was going to be "hard work." (He was ridiculed for the mantra.) The President is kept apprised of the situation. If all of the Generals and those "on the ground" are telling him now that a troop surge is not needed, it seems to me that either they must have always said that or they are conceding defeat. I know that the General (forget his name, Asian) who opined that a large number of troops needed to be deployed initially was not listened to. If other military leaders felt the same way, why didn't they speak up while in command? I can't believe that it was because of fear of reprisal, not with so much at stake.

    Well, back to my original point,

    "HALP US BOB - WE R STUCK HEAR N IRAK"

    Kurt Kissel,

    I would recommend reading what Pope Benedict wrote about relativism when he was merely Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.

    "I can't believe that it was because of fear of reprisal, not with so much at stake."

    I give you the example of Lt. General John Riggs, a 39-year veteran of the Army. He was critical of Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and stated publicly that he believed the military was overstretched in Afghanistan and Iraq. After those comments, he was persona non grata and his input was largely ignored.

    He was forced to retire because of "improper use of military contractors" (despite the fact that those charges are not in his official service record) and then he was demoted one grade to Major General (a severe punishment usually reserved for major infractions).

    Thank you - Thank you - Thank you --- for clarifying the incorrect use of the term "Immaculate Conception." Idiots like Olbermann, Hollywood writers and would-be comedians consistently use the term in such a way that it's clear they have no clue as to what it really means.

    Sharon: "bush is not 100% pro-life either"...

    Boy, I'll say...just take a look at Iraq!

    Democrats, Bush haters and Olby lovers: YOU are in power. Please, for the love of all you hold sacred, DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN PISS AND MOAN. Please, show America that you deserved to win that election.

    How about a 5 day work week for starters?

    While many on the right keep using irrelevent terms such s 'victory', and 'defeat' to describe the possibilities in Iraq, it is clear they do not really understand the nature of guerrilla warfare, which is essentially what an 'insurgency' is.

    History has taught us that it is difficult, if not impossible to outlast a highly motivated insurgency against a foreign occupier. We found that out in Vietnam. The Soviet Union found it out in Afghanistan. And now we're learning the same lesson yet again in Iraq.

    Any 'defeat' would be political, not a military one, and any 'victory' would be the same. Our military DID their job a long time ago, and now we keep asking them to do something they were never trained or equipped to do in pursuit of that elusive 'victory'.

    This war, like any guerilla war, has no actual front lines, and the enemy is always elusive, giving the troops no clear indication of who their enemy actually is. This is the classic formula to 'defeat' a superior military occupier, and unfortunately for us, it works.

    What is not being discussed very much these days is if we are able to somehow quell the intense civil war in Baghdad, we will STILL be left with an insurgency that is stronger than ever and getting stronger, mostly in Anbar Province. I believe a lot of people are currently under the impression that if we can only quell the civil strife, 'victory' will be at hand...not so!

    If we continue to deny reality, while ignoring the real fight in Afghanistan, we are in increasing danger of 'loosing' both.

    "The recruiting offices are taking almost anyone with a pulse."

    -Bob

    SO is this another example of, "I was trying to insult the President, not the troops."

    -Sharon.

    No Sharon, it's a simple statement of fact.The military recruiters( thus the military) are lowering their standards.
    Lower aptitude tests,those with known drug or alcohol problems,and even past mental problems are now being accepted in as first time recruits.
    As more and more of our troops come home with permanent debilitating injuries and the rest coming home in coffins, Bush needs bodies. And they're going to get them however they can.

    So I wasn't trying to insult the president nor the troops, it's just the way it is.Because you don't understand this or want to believe it, you say it's ," Hypocrisy at its best here."

    Righto !

    And how you parlayed recruiting questions into abortion is something only you can do Sharon.

    I stated various times that based upon the opinion of those who saw the evidence, the war seemed justified. "Cherry-picked" evidence? That indicates some evidence was presented, other evidence withheld that was not favorable to the Administration's position. What evidence was withheld? Who was it that saw this evidence and then stated if I had known that, I would have never voted yes?

    Cherry picked evidence means that the Bushco saw reports of WMD and there were other reports that seriously doubted Saddam had these weapons.
    They decided to PUSH the evidence that fit into their grand scheme of things.
    As I posted the other day,with the fall of the Soviet Union, Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz had decided to organize a "new world order" in 1991, while members of the first Bush administration.They felt that the USA should be the ONLY super power in the world and had dreams of making the US the new Rome.
    This is where the origins of invading Iraq was incubated.
    When 9/11 happened, they had their chance and put it into effect.
    They weren't going to let trivial things like intelligence reports that seriously doubted the existence of WMD to stop them.


    "If other military leaders felt the same way, why didn't they speak up while in command? I can't believe that it was because of fear of reprisal, not with so much at stake."

    You can't eh?.Then you haven't been following very closely how the Bush Administration works.
    Many who haven't spoke up is because....they wanted to keep their jobs, and their pensions.
    Bush wants teams players, and by that it has always meant you give him the information that he wants to hear.
    Dissenting voices are not acceptable in this White House.
    Does the name Colin Powell ring a bell ?

    Everything is conspiracy. Nothing is ever what it seems. People are always telling the truth after they leave. Colin Powell really didn't believe that Saddam had WMD. He had been programmed just like the Manchurian Candidate. In fact, Cheney is controlling everyone like little Manchurian Candidates. Oh my God!!! Is he controlling my thoughts? Oh no!!! I must get Cheney out of my head. I know. First, I'll take it out of my ass. Then, I will take it off Michael Moore's lap. Then, I will remove my protective helmet. Next I will begin hitting my head with a hammer and then swallow the blue pill. Finally, I will be free of the Matrix that Bushco has developed to keep us in fear.

    "However, so many of the truly abhorrent posts overnight and this morning do truly show that many religious people, probably fundamentalist and otherwise, often use religion as a weapon and as an excuse for not trying to love our fellow humans."

    KK, Would you mind fleshing that out a bit. A little cut and paste of the 'truly abhorrent posts overnight' with some kind of legend that indicates religious, probably fundamentalist' ones as opposed to any that are from the nonreligious posters.

    Since terms such as abhorrent, truly abhorrent, religious and non religious can sometimes be subjective could you lay it so others can follow your assessment.

    Thanks for the paragraphs. I want to assure you that I was not indicating anything one way or the other re your thought processes. I was pointing out that the structure of writings can hinder or help the writer and the reader.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Bob,

    You have to admit, were our position reversed, you would have zeroed in on that comment. Read your statement again and tell me that you would repeat it to a recently enlisted person. It may be a fact that standards have been lowered but you presented it in a condescending way. (BTW, I respectfully asked you a question the other day because I assumed you would know the answer, one way or the other. I also assume you have a life and probably don't see every comment. I won't bother to repeat it, seeing that I am such a dumba** to you.)

    A person holding the pro-life position always tries to insert it when possible. There has been an interplay of comments concerning George Bush and his religious views in the context of the Iraq War. Abortion and religion are very much related. I presented my reason for voting for Bush (before the war).

    "there were other reports that seriously doubted Saddam had these weapons."

    I haven't heard any politician speak directly from these reports. I have never see Russert put them on the screen or anyone else. I would like to see them myself. I don't know if Colin Powell was fired or left of his own accord because he could not remain in a position condoning a point of view with which he completely disagrees.

    A group of marines apparently had the courage to stand up for their beliefs. They sent a petition last week. Some one on this site pointed that out.

    Lt. General Riggs I had not heard about. Thank you (whoever responded) for concrete facts that can be investigated.

    Chavez, a Cuba ally re-elected by a landslide in December, this month launched a campaign to consolidate power by nationalizing key industries, seeking expanded executive powers and pushing for unlimited presidential re-election.

    Viva Los Chavez

    For meritorious service in providing unending hours of entertainment in the service of society by her unabashed acts of media whoring, sucking up to commie dictator Hugo Chavez, lovingly hugging Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton amid the wreckage of Hurricane Katrina while shamelessly pissing on the grave of a dead son who died serving a country he loved much more than his mother loves herself and for willingly sacrificing the last vestiges of any dignity she ever had to be a tool for every Leftist Liberal hate group with enough money to buy her mindless services ... we, the governing body of the Barking Moonbat Hall Of Fame are indeed proud to induct into our shameful shrine this year’s proud winner ...

    CINDY SHEEHAN

    YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

    Janet writes: "Since terms such as abhorrent, truly abhorrent, religious and non religious can sometimes be subjective could you lay it so others can follow your assessment."

    Kurt, can you do it in less than 5000 words?

    You can always tell the truly IGNORANT ones on this site. They love to throw out stupid little non-words like 'moonbats' and other ignorant self made up trash like "marking Moonbat Hall of Fame" that have no real meaning other than to try to obscure the fact that they really are incapable of putting together a coherant argument, so they resort to meaningless street talk and put downs.

    Yep Bush lied!!! People died!!! Your a religious Bigot!!!! Your a racist!!!! Chickenhawk yada yada yada. These are much more effective. You got me.

    No, Donora Pa, I have many friends who attend The Sacrifice of the Mass (eucharist) under Roman Catholic authority who know Christ personally. I also have friends that attend synagogue, observe glatt kosher dietary law and know Yeshuah, Messiah, personally. I can include Lutherans, Congregationalists, Baptists, Episcopalians, and many non-denominational folk like myself who have surrendered themselves to Yeshuah. Please do not accuse me of bigotry based on my post this morning, I was simply stating fact....religion does not automatically include spiritual revelation which, as a follower of Christ, I believe is His only teaching.

    Your summation of Christianity is a false teaching...."enjoying your life" can be achieved by joining the local Country Club. Please show me a verse from a gospel that says that is what following Christ can be.

    Enjoying life is a goal, it is a personal choice. But if people are going to characterize my personal spiritual experience falsely, I am going to respond.

    "Religion" is such an easy scapegoat used by bigots through-out history.....The radical islamist's entire crusade is over their hatred of Jews, Christians, different muslims and non-believers.

    It's ok however because I understand human nature and this is why I support The President in his forceful stand against radical Islamic terrorists.....The radical islamist who is willing to kill people simply because they are a Jew, Christian, atheist, non-conforming muslim, whatever, is a poisonous trait that cannot be tolerated and force is justified to confront it in defense of the weak. The secularist of course disagrees with this assessment, believing all wrong action is a result of wrong thinking.....If this was true, man-made despair, violence and misery would have been easily eradicated by mankind on his own centuries before Christ even came on the scene!

    Man is killing his fellow man now more than ever....if we (see I include myself in this group)were able to think right to achieve peace, don't you think it would have been achieved already?

    Lastly, for you, Donora Pa, who feels "Evangelical Christians" are not worthy of existing....I will pose the same question I posed to The Wizard of OZ (Colbert)....

    Please name me one secular humanist who was deeply involved in the abolition of the African American Slaves prior to The Civil War.

    I will give you the results of my research....Historical investigation shows that the vocal movers and shakers in the abolition of millions of oppressed human beings also proclaimed Christ as Lord and Redeemer.

    I challenge the great Professor Honeydew (Bob) to do this as well....Please find me one secularist who put his/her neck on the line for the Black slave.

    You seem to believe southern slave owners were the only "Evangelical Christians" in our country's history....well I am challenging that secular humanist indoctrination here and now! Let's go! Get educated!

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    Your damned right we "got you". You waltzed in here and threw out a name NOBODY is talking about, in order to try to throw cold water on a debate that you have no answers for.

    No the Olbermann distractors on this site can't post in under 500 words. The more words they post, the more the odds that the conversation will veer away from Keith and onto something else besides Keith, which is their sole purpose and aim in posting at this board. So let me post 500 words plus on the subject of Keith Olbermann. That's always a refreshing change in the posts here at OLBERMANN-WATCH.

    Now, let's discuss this post, "You Bush people can't see Olby's wisdom. He's a true American heroe! He's putting his life on the line for us. He cares about us people! Unlike Bush who cares only about Halliburton!"

    Oh Keith puts his life on the line alright. And he cares so very much about people. That's why he rushed down to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. Oh wait, that's right. He never left the NJ/NYC area, not before, after, or in the prolonged aftermath of the storm. Every other anchor at MSNBC did, except for Keith. Oh sure he could give one of his copyrighted speeches of righteous indignation about the storm, but nope, couldn't be bothered to actually go down there like every other anchor on ALL of the cable networks did, except for him.

    And who could blame Keith for not leaving the comfort of his Central Park South luxury apartment to go down to New Orleans and the Gulf Coast where people were dying and living in utter misery--the man had baseball games to go to, fans to sleep with.

    Oh but wait, Keith's been to Iraq at least once in the nearly four years since the war has been raging right? No, sorry, he hasn't been there either. But he has done many a commentary on the war and Bush, etc. He just doesn't want any part in actually reporting from the scene so he'll know first-hand what's going on in the country. That gives him such a position of authority to speak from doesn't it?

    And before any of his little diehard fans try to throw up an excuse about Keith's had a head injury and doesn't travel well, I remind you he went to Spring Training at least twice last year in Florida. Those trips required airplane flights. And how many times did he fly cross-country to LA last year when he was courting his teenage girlfriend? Three? Four? Five? I lost count actually.

    Anyway, Keith only travels if there's baseball or pussy involved. But oh yeah--Keith cares. Keith cares about. . . Keith! That's why Keith, Haliburton-greed style, is asking the network for $4 million a year. Never mind he's never even been first in his time-slot. Never mind he's never even beaten Fox in the oh-so-coveted "demo" ratings. Never mind that he's asking for the same amount that NBC's Network News anchor Brian Williams makes in a year. And yes, CNN is giving Anderson Cooper that much a year now but AC's audience dwarfs KO's too. And AC, unlike Olbermann, has been known to leave the safety of the studio on a regular basis. And it's safe to say with AC that his trips don't involve either pussy or baseball.

    "Anyway, Keith only travels if there's baseball or pussy involved."


    Line of the month!

    Jesus is my homeboy...

    KAF,

    Why are you responding to someone who is SO OBVIOUSLY baiting you into responding?

    Maybe Olby and Mo Rocca could tour Iraq together, sponsored by the Huffington Post.

    Sharon, you have to understand Bobo Speak.

    Fact- anything Bobo says or thinks

    Irrefutable fact- see fact above

    Intelligent- Bobo and to a lesser degree his syncophants

    Stupid- anyone who disagrees with Bobo

    Evidence- whatever Bobo says it is

    Christian- brainwashed right wing rascist KKK members

    God- there is no God but Bobo

    Tolerant and inclusive- Bobo and his syncophants

    Try to have an exchange of ideas and opinions with him a few more times and you'll be able to expand my paltry list to a book.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Sharon, you have to understand Bobo Speak.

    Fact- anything Bobo says or thinks

    Irrefutable fact- see fact above

    Intelligent- Bobo and to a lesser degree his syncophants

    Stupid- anyone who disagrees with Bobo

    Evidence- whatever Bobo says it is

    Christian- brainwashed right wing rascist KKK members

    God- there is no God but Bobo

    Tolerant and inclusive- Bobo and his syncophants

    Try to have an exchange of ideas and opinions with him a few more times and you'll be able to expand my paltry list to a book.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    There goes Johnny's obsessed "liberal" KAF, valiantly attempting to divert the discussion back to that bad, bad, man Keith Olbermann. People just will NOT cooperate, to his eternal frustration!

    Johnny,

    I just watched the Fox News Report link. But Greta's picture is on the top of the page; be prepared for accusations that you are female.

    "I think the ones that continue to support this war should be personally given the shovels to dig the graves of our fallen brave soldiers.

    How about it, Grammie, Cececila, Cee etc!

    Posted by: Bushkill Falls, Pa at January 21, 2007 2:26 PM"

    I can only speak for myself. For my part I'll be proud to serve in such a way IF you put your money where your mouth is and dig all the graves for innocent civilians killed by Islamic Fascists and terrorists.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Grammie,

    LOL! I know many people to whom that list applies. At least we aren't using web cams here. Yikes! Let the nightmares begin.

    I also noticed how Bobo slinked away last week when you pointed out when the CIA was instituted. That discussion ceased to exist. (I can't remember the name of the movie that was supported by CIA agents who were "there.")

    I liked the accusations demanding that Johnny prove that he's not a female... :D

    Notice Cee can't bear to admit he made some huge errors when praising Bush for getting rid of the Taliban so now he's back on his secular humanist kick.
    How funny is that !
    Our own little Culture Warrior, here.
    He'd make Bill O'Reilly very proud.

    And if there ever was childish sniping, just look at Grammie's comments towards me.
    She knows I'm correct with my facts, so she acts like a little kid, rather than having anything of substance to say.

    Must be a bitch to be Grammie.


    Well Bob says everything is a conspiracy.

    Bob it's a givin' you listen to Art Bell nothing new here.

    Meanwhile in Trenton, I wonder how bill s494 is getting along. It could be law by now right Bob?

    I'm sorry folks I was just playing a little inside baseball with all knowing Bob.

    Bill s494 sponsored by State Senator Nia Gill (D-Essex) calls for a needle exchange program in six municipalities and about 10 million in drug rehab programs.

    But Senator Ron Rice also ( D-Essex) was pushing a bill for 100 million for drug rehab and a needle exchange.

    Property tax cut? We'll get to it......some year.

    So let's give Bob a round of applause because while he and others in New Jersey are busting their ass at work. Probibly taking a pee test to see they don't do drugs. Paying the highest taxes in all of America just about.

    Some junkie down in Camden is gettin high, after ripping some old lady off. (like junkies have jobs?) living off the state, looking at Bob and saying.

    Thanks a**hole.

    But Bob I don't want you to think I'm just having fun with your side.

    Former Keyport Mayor John Merla (R) pleaded guilty last wed. to extorting a $2,500 bribe in return for helping a contractor obtain a $36,200 contract.

    Now I did get that last story out of the paper, and I know Bob has accused me of getting my stuff out of newspapers. Which I guess in Bob's mind means it's not all true?

    Okay Bob we can all go along with that. Everybody, forget that last story I did get it out of the paper, in Bob's mind it wasn't true.

    Gee Bob thats too bad.

    Folks while I was waiting in line at the Market I saw where the Weekly World News said that Aliens landed in Ho Ho Kus, New Jersey!

    But, Bob does listen to Art Bell.

    And now as a service to our Loons heading for the big anti war rally next sat in D.C. HERE'S A WEATHER UPDATE!!!!!!

    It seems that the high will only be around 31 now and it looks like theres SNOW in the forcast!!! oh! oh!

    Better bundle up!

    Wow! 31, snow falling, wind blowing, real feel around 0.

    Ah! just blame it on George Bush.

    Poor Bobo, he gets bitch slapped by a little gray haired Grandma. Must be rough on the little darling.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Well there go's Bob again!

    Saying something about KAF talking about Olby.

    Funny Bob, the last time I looked it did say olbermannwatch at the top.

    Oh I forgot that attention span of you people from New Jersey, not exactly in real time eh?

    I thought you took care of that A.D.D. problem, They must have a multi-million dollar program to cover that in New Jersey.

    Heck just walk in, tell them you dont have a job and you live under a bridge. You'll probibly get some good drugs. and a clean needle.

    I never thought of myself as a "secular humanist", not until this silly little label started getting thrown around anyway....or am I actually a "secular progressive"?

    Until these ridiculous labels started getting thrown around, I just thought I was another American citizen with my own unique view of theology and morality.

    Who knew? But I see that people like O'Reilly and Cee have us all figured out!

    I also noticed how Bobo slinked away last week when you pointed out when the CIA was instituted. That discussion ceased to exist. (I can't remember the name of the movie that was supported by CIA agents who were "there.")

    Posted by: sharon at January 21, 2007 8:39 PM

    Oh yeah, slinked away.
    Grammie's response about when the CIA was started made no sense to the point I was making. That's why I didn't bother to respond.

    Very simply, Grammie couldn't understand how a CIA agent who was employed in the 1950's made a comment about what transpired during WWII.
    She just automatically thought I was referring to a CIA agent during the war.
    Grammie thought she had one of her hot flashes, or rather, Gotcha Moments and then insisted I was wrong. And the right wing caravan all hopped aboard that train....didn't you, Sharon.

    The name of the movie was WHY WE FIGHT, by the way, and the CIA agent never said he was THERE, nor did I.

    And this movie illustrates why most of Grammie's, cee's and the cabal's points are erroneous and null and void.

    Funny how people make comments on movies that they haven't seen.


    Puck, it's good to see you here again.

    I'm wondering whatever happened to KfK and his nemisis Jill?

    Is it hard to be you Grammie? When was the CIA instituted?

    I just read on M.S.N.B.C. that gas prices have fallin' 14 cents in the last two weeks.

    Gee Bob, whats George Bush up to now?

    Puck, maybe you should let up on little Bobo. He gets upset so easily.

    And he is so sweet, nice and tries so hard to set those fools who dare to disagree with him straight. And all we do is treat him mean.

    No gratitude, sniff sniff.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Don't you have a dog to kick around?

    Comment was to BoBo, but I guess it could apply where it can apply...

    Yuh know KAF, I've thought about it and your right!

    Olbermann really is a bad, bad , bad, man, and to top that off, he's a selfish, selfish, selfish, man too. Imagine that, demanding more money than he is actually worth....how un -American of him!

    If only folks would just wake up and stop watching this threat to America!

    Well there go's Bob again!

    Saying something about KAF talking about Olby.

    Please, tell me where THAT is Hockey Puck.
    Or are you too stupid to realize that some RW'ers have nothing better to do but use my name.

    Also, your insane rants are quite funny.
    You remind me of a slightly dumber Dan Quayle.

    "Until these ridiculous labels started getting thrown around, I just thought I was another American citizen with my own unique view of theology and morality."

    Mike, that's PRECISELY how I felt the other day when you told me you wanted to know if I was a "winger".

    Sharon, you notice Bobo just informed you he didn't respond:

    "And I got a hoot that Grammie was furiously checking out anything I say here.
    Instead of looking for her objectivity, that is MIA, she's fact checking me.

    So Grammie thinks that since the CIA was formed in 47, after the war, that no CIA agents could comment about events during the war.

    And I was beginning to think you had a head on your shoulders Grammie.
    My bad !

    BTW:
    In 1947, the CIA was officially born (about a year after it had already effectively started operations), under the auspices of President Harry Truman and the National Security Act.

    Next assignment for Grammie:

    Check on the comment I made on Dec 3rd at 3:45 PM.
    There's a secret message in there for you,and for you alone.

    Posted by: bob at January 20, 2007 10:54 AM"

    Sharon, would you think denying your own words within the same 24 hour time span qualifies as a lye or as an attention span deficit disorder.

    I report, you decide

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Ps I responded as follows:

    ""BTW:
    In 1947, the CIA was officially born (about a year after it had already effectively started operations), under the auspices of President Harry Truman and the National Security Act."

    Bobo, and these formed in 1946 CIA operatives were with President Truman in 1945 telling him that Japan was ready to surrender.

    As I said, they call them 'spooks' sometimes, but that doesn't apply in this case.

    Even after Japan decided to surrender due to the two atomic bombs used on them, there was an attempted military coup against Hirohito that came close to succeeding so that they could continue the war.

    Wrong again, Bobo.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 20, 2007 12:10 PM"

    He did not respond to my followup.

    Cecelia: I don't specifically remember the quote but sorry if I seemed like I was trying to label you.

    Well, Bob,

    Maybe you are just not as clear as you think you are in your explanations. Do you feel more like a man after these exchanges?

    ""Until these ridiculous labels started getting thrown around, I just thought I was another American citizen with my own unique view of theology and morality."

    Mike, my sentiments exactly everytime I am assured that I am a fundy Christonazi rascist duped tool of the maniacal Bush, Cheney and Rove spouting Hannity and Limbaughs lies.

    Join the club. If you don't admit your sin, then you will be accused of being arrogant and evil because you refuse to acknowledge the truth that is so obvious to them.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "He did not respond to my followup."

    Which I just explained why, and then DID RESPOND to show how YOU were wrong.

    But Grammie is never wrong. She'll just keeping spinning yarns until people get so tired of her bullshit , that they just DON'T RESPOND , they just give up.

    "Cecelia: I don't specifically remember the quote but sorry if I seemed like I was trying to label you."

    It did. No apology necessary but thanks for it anyway.

    Sharon, this is starting to remind me of that old joke 'Who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes?'

    Too funny.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Professor Honeydew (Bob) claims....

    "Notice Cee can't bear to admit he made some huge errors when praising Bush for getting rid of the Taliban so now he's back on his secular humanist kick."

    No, professor, I did not respond to you because I responded to a specific question of good things Bush did. You want to change the subject about events that have occurred after those events and is an example of your typical strawman bait.....change the subject.

    You claim Saddam's removal was bad...that's your opinion. You claim sending less of my money to the federal treasury is bad...that's your opinion.

    With regard to The Taliban, I believe the actual removal was good and although they are trying to reclaim Afghanistan, I believe this does not make their intitial removal any less right or good.

    Now, you can continue to cheer for the Bathists in Iraq and The Taliban in Afghanistan....that is your right....Also, why don't you send more of your own money to the US Treasury if it is so immoral that, although I am still paying more taxes as a percentage of my income then people with my income in the past, George Bush tried to reverse the trend of increasing taxation by the federal government (don't forget please that taxes include Social Security, Medicare and Federal Income Taxes COMBINED).

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    Well folks I just read about how Daytona Beach is planning a Homeless Village. Yep! a 5600 bed facility for the homeless.

    Bob why hasn't New Jersey done this?

    Just put off that property tax cut another 10 years or so.

    I'm sorry, silly me! New Jersey already has a homeless village.

    It's called Camden.

    Yeah! free needles, free medical, free food, section 8 housing in abundance along with abandoned buildings. A liberal mecca!!!!

    So the crimes a little high, can't have everything!


    Just in case Bob says anything folks I got that Daytona Beach report from the www.local6.com website so I think it's okay and Bob will say it's real.

    But I did link to it from the Drudge Report so that could have made the whole story false.

    Cee: "I am still paying more taxes as a percentage of my income then people with my income in the past"....

    Irrelevant! The taxes being received are NOT paying the bills, much less paying down the national debt...not to mention paying for this war.

    Until they ARE, we all need to pay more taxes!

    Grammie,

    Well, hubby has arrived home, so I'll probably say adieu. Maybe I'll catch up later. Fight the good fight (and get to confession :) )

    The week kicked off with Golden Globe Winner Sacha Baron Cohen's heartfelt tribute to his co-star Ken Davitian's rancid nether region. But Davitian's was far from the only ass making headlines this week. O.J. Simpson floated the idea of writing a "tasteful" account of his life with Nicole. Rick Santorum praised the president for "not listening to the people, not listening to Congress." John McCain saw his poll numbers "tanking" due to his head-in-his-bum cheerleading for escalating the war in Iraq . And word surfaced that Fidel Castro had recently been fitted with an artificial anus. Sphincter watchers see no letup in sight, as President Bush prepares for Tuesday's State of the Union speech....

    Lastly, for you, Donora Pa, who feels "Evangelical Christians" are not worthy of existing....I will pose the same question I posed to The Wizard of OZ (Colbert)....

    cee....who else.

    I didn't say evandelical Christians are not worthy of existing. as far as enjoying your life....
    Book of Ecclesiastes

    16 ¶ And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.

    17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

    18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

    19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

    20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

    21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

    22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?


    More Ecclesiastes cee

    15 Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labor the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun.

    16 ¶ When I applied mine heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done upon the earth: (for also there is that neither day nor night seeth sleep with his eyes:)

    17 then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labor to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea further; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.


    Lord, what has happened to this board?

    Let's go Colts. A classic comeback!

    Just like OZ (Colbert)....It's nice to see you (Donora & Professor Honeydew) couldn't admit that those who ascribed to your world-view sat on their hands over the biggest moral issue facing "enlightened" man in the 19th Century....

    Oh yeah....didn't that nasty thing called slavery occur even in the wonderful light of the post-Renaissance and Enlightenment? Wow....also, lets look at two secularists' statements at the time, shall we?....

    "At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla”
    Charles Darwin

    “We must, however, acknowledge, as it seems to me, that man with all his noble qualities, with sympathy which feels for the most debased, with benevolence which extends not only to other men but to the humblest living creature, with his god-like intellect which has penetrated into the movements and constitution of the solar system—with all these exalted powers—Man still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin” Charles Darwin

    "“For my own part I would as soon be descended from that heroic little monkey, who braved his dreaded enemy in order to save the life of his keeper, or from that old baboon, who descended from the mountains, carried away in triumph his young comrade from a crowd of astonished dogs—as from a savage [read contemporary “Negro”] who delights to torture his enemies, offers up bloody sacrifices, practices infanticide without remorse, treats his wives like slaves, knows no decency, and is haunted by the grossest superstitions” Charles Darwin

    “Civilized men are largely attracted by the mental charms of women, by their wealth, and especially by their social position… The men who succeed in obtaining the more beautiful women will not have a better chance of leaving a long line of descendants than other men with plainer wives…” Charles Darwin

    Man accumulates property and bequeaths it to his children, so that the children of the rich have an advantage over the poor in the race for success, independently of bodily or mental superiority. On the other hand, the children of parents who are short-lived, and are therefore on an average deficient in health and vigor, come into their property sooner than other children, and will be likely to marry earlier, and leave a larger number of offspring to inherit their inferior constitutions. But the inheritance of property by itself is very far from an evil; for without the accumulation of capital the arts could not progress; and it is chiefly through their power that the civilized races have extended, and are now everywhere extending their range, so as to take the place of the lower races” Charles Darwin

    "No rational man, cognizant of the facts, believes that the average negro is the equal . . . of the white man. And if this be true, it is simply incredible that, when all his disabilities are removed . . . he will be able to compete successfully with his bigger-brained and smaller-jawed rival, in a contest which is to be carried out by thoughts and not by bites."
    Thomas Huxley

    Oh, and Donora Pa....Read LUKE 12 with regards to your misapplication of ECCLESIASTES or even worse....MATTHEW 24....

    Let me know what Christ taught about what a man values.

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    It will lead to sex with birds and baby parts!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhyKR4BAUKo&mode=related&search=

    "At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. ..."

    That's a very small list of people who were born into a white christian dominated world, and though they didn't lay claim to basing their beliefs on the bible ended up predicting what white Christian people would do. And Christians did exactly that.

    More than 4 million native Americans were wiped out, mostly by diseases that europeans brought here but many also by starvation and out right extermination. As it was then, people like you will say that was god's will. Secular humanists would not blame god for such horror.

    You make this measly little list of so-called secularists and leave out the one hundred years of bible propped segregationists.

    What a weak argument you present. Just how many prominent white bible loving men from history do you think we could list who not only used the bible to defend the right of white men to have and hold slaves, but to breed and sell them like animals.

    What a f---ing crock of shit attitude you have about the realities of nearly 400 years of slavery and another 100 years of segregation perpetrated by an entire culture of non-repentant sub-humans who treated dark races as animals and then went to war to fight for the right to continue it in what was to be a nation of liberty and freedom.

    "The south will rise again" is code for "we shall never repent"

    Your denials are your acts of non-repentance.

    Evangelic mantra - "we are not the evil ones - we are the moral ones"

    I think they doth protest too much!

    cee, you must time and time agiain call one a scularist who disagrees with your understanding of scripture. You have in fact been brainwashed by a bible cult and are in need of setious help. I feel sad for your misunderstanding of Christ's teachings. He came to this world and was tortured to death by people who share your want of a conquering king. The fact that you miss the whole point of Luke 12 is not suprising. Your treasure is in killing your enemy before they kill you, and in the process if a few hundred or thousands are killed you accept it and wash your hands from the blood that you require for your religious bigotry.
    "4 There are six things the LORD hates, yes, seven are an abomination to him;
    17
    Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood;
    18
    A heart that plots wicked schemes, feet that run swiftly to evil,
    19
    The false witness who utters lies, and he who sows discord among brothers.
    20

    So I see not one of the Olbermann-apologists had a single explanation as to why Keith "the Edward R. Murrow of his generation" Olbermann couldn't travel to New Orleans for Katrina (or to Iraq as many of the other cable news anchors have). Isn't it interesting that the political show hosts, at MSNBC--Matthews, Scarborough, Carlson, could all go to the Gulf Coast in the wake of Katrina but only Keith reminded behind? If he's the "real" journalist and a bonafide anchorman why doesn't he ever venture out of the studio to cover a story? The only exceptions I seem to remember were Reagan & Ford's funeral (from the safety of the D.C. studio) and the 5th anniversary of 9/11 and the Republican National Convention (both from NYC). And then of course there are Keith's frequent trips to Florida and to L.A. where his reasons for traveling were talk show appearances, baseball, and pussy.

    So this is your Edward R. Murrow? A guy who won't venture out of the safety of NYC-DC-LA? Anyone here actually familiar with Murrow's career as a war correspondent where he risked his life countless times to cover a story? What's Keith's equivalent? Smashing his head on a subway door on his way to a baseball game? (And that was almost 30 years ago.) Oh yeah, he's Edward R. Murrow's virtual 21st Century equivalent alright.

    Come on apologists-you can surely pull an explanation out of your ass to cover Olbermann for this. Or will you just keep on distracting as usual instead of discussing?

    Oh boy....two simple posts...

    Donora Pa....."that shed innocent blood"
    Once again accusations that The Unites States forces are the guilty party in a conflict that would have ended IF those who hate people because of their religious choices did not decide to make violence against INNOCENT people in order to advance their evil goals.

    Oh, and please instruct me on how I misapplied LUKE 12 to your hedonistic philosophy? Because you seem to believe that if you mind your own business and are happy, even while the innocent are killed, abused or made to despair....YOU at least are doing ok....well I really think that conclusion would surprise even the most liberal theologian in your church.

    Same attitude for the South Vietnamese
    Same attitude for the Christians in Africa
    Same attitude for the African-American Slave...

    And with regards to that...Comic Book Store Guy (Buffalo) seems to want to avoid my initial question?....The secular humanists who were vocal and worked towards the freedom for American Black Slaves, please?

    He attacks my small number even though I noted that these two secularists were THE VOICES of the liberal world through 19th Century England AND admitted children of The Enlightenment! What a wonderful world-view that is so hopeful, peaceful and loving!

    Comic Book Store Guy...I'll repeat my challenge to you....Name me ONE secular humanist who was a vocal and active abolitionist.

    Do the research since your like-minded leftists abandoned it (OZ (Colbert), Donora Pa. and Professor Honeydew (Bob))...and you will find the abolitionist was also proclaiming there was a God, He had a Son who came and died on the cross for the iniquity of slave, slave-owner, abolitionist and passive enabler of evil alike! This sounds just like what an Evangelical Christian believes!

    The slave-owner enabling secular humanist was like Donora Pa...."live and let live...I'll mind my own business, not make a decision on what is right or what is wrong...it will all work out for ME in the end!"

    If we needed any proof whatsoever than the liberals on this site are Christian-haters, all anyone has to do is look back on the posts made this weekend. I pray for you people, I really do. You must be so proud of yourselves for Christian bashing. I love how the libs accuse us of prejudice when it's them who hurl out sweeping statements about Southerners, Christians, etc. If anyone is guilty of stereotyping here, it's Keith's Krazies. But what else is new?

    And p.s.--slavery was a side issue in the civil war, it wasn't the main issue no matter how much the revionists want to make it about slavery.

    cee, you are a lost cause. You see only what you want. You have a problem with a man working hard and attempting to enjoy life. You call that hedonism. As I have pointed out again and again, anyone who doesn't share your political world view you call a leftistist secular humanist. You are full of the wisdom of your own mind while you claim Christ's mind. I guess kill or be killed is better for you than live and let live. I guess it is better to make a wrong decision and get a bunch of people killed than to trust in the Lords will and try to live with your fellow man in peace as much as posible. You have one foot in faith and the other in a murdrerous march of madness. You are no one to lecture about faith, or Christianity. You have been bought and sold by a political party who needs your vote, not by any redeeming blood. Anyone who thinks it's wrong to work hard and enjoy life is a lost soul. If you want to save someone, look in the mirror cee.

    "I guess kill or be killed is better for you than live and let live."

    You guessed incorrectly....I would like to be a part of country that couragously protects the weak...those people who live under threat of violence, death and/or oppression for their political or religious beliefs.

    That is what our wonderful troops in Iraq have been fighting for since 2003, and your nice group couldn't care less about that noble cause.....in fact...you want it to fail and are doing everything possible to accomplish your selfish and short-sighted wishes.

    LIVE AND LET LIVE!!!....yeah....great humanitarian you are!

    Speaking about Cee:You have in fact been brainwashed by a bible cult and are in need of setious help. I feel sad for your misunderstanding of Christ's teachings. He came to this world and was tortured to death by people who share your want of a conquering king. The fact that you miss the whole point of Luke 12 is not suprising.

    Praise the Lord, Donora,PA is so very correct.
    If Christ ever came back, he'd be appalled at someone like Cee, using His name to try to justify the barbary of the Bush Administration, and it's attitude towards the poor.

    Cee is the antithesis of being a good Christian.

    Cee:"I would like to be a part of country that couragously protects the weak."

    I certainly hope you're not talking about the USA and your president.
    The poor in our country have gotten poorer each of the last 6 years under Bush.
    That is a fact !

    Also , Bush did a hellofa job protecting the Katrina victims, when he wouldn't leave his vacation to lift a finger.

    Cee lives in an alternative universe where black is white and up is down.

    He thinks his president is the total opposite of what he does !
    Cee is a disgrace !

    Cee thinks he's Bill O'Reilly's right hand man, being the little Culture Warrior, protecting and fighting against secular humanism.
    It's obvious because Cee uses NO REASONING SKILLS in any of his points.
    Bill Oreilly and Cee= Perfect together !

    Oh, Donora Pa.....Were you have been one of those nice people who ignored the screams of Kitty Genovese?....Perhaps that's what I'll start calling you....

    "Proud bystander"

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    Bushkil.....Keep changing the subject and claim you are better than Bush or ____________. It simply shows how superificial, unintelligent and void of compassion your world-view is.

    Why do all of those so proud and sure they care for their fellow human being not address my simple challenge?....Where were your fellow secular humanists in the greatest moral struggle ever faced by our country?

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "I think the ones that continue to support this war should be personally given the shovels to dig the graves of our fallen brave soldiers.

    How about it, Grammie, Cececila, Cee etc!

    Posted by: Bushkill Falls, Pa at January 21, 2007 2:26 PM"

    I can only speak for myself. For my part I'll be proud to serve in such a way IF you put your money where your mouth is and dig all the graves for innocent civilians killed by Islamic Fascists and terrorists.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie


    Typically glib nonsensible answer by the reason challenged Grammie.
    I don't encourage the "Islamic fascists" Ms. Grammie.
    You are encouraging our president to cause more death of our troops.
    You, like your comrade in warmongering, Cee should be forced to greet all of the coffins coming back from Iraq, the ones Bush tries to hide for obvious reasons, and dig their graves.
    Just maybe then you'll see the consequences of your beliefs !

    "I don't encourage the "Islamic fascists" Ms. Grammie."

    That's a lie, Bushkill.

    By saying our troops are responsible for the deaths of civilians in Iraq, you have pardoned the truly guilty...the radical Islamists that can continue to kill those same troops and Iraqi civilians without cause to worry that you, and those that think like you, will stop supporting their behavior.

    Stop lying about your position, Bushkill....it makes you look worse.

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden


    Our bible pumping hypocrite: cee:
    That is what our wonderful troops in Iraq have been fighting for since 2003, and your nice group couldn't care less about that noble cause.....in fact...you want it to fail and are doing everything possible to accomplish your selfish and short-sighted wishes.

    THE NOBLE CAUSE: Cherry picking intelligence to convince a country that our country was about to be attacked by Saddan Hussein.Attacking a country that didn't attack us, permitting war profiteering at the expense of the American people.

    WE WANT THIS NOBLE CAUSE TO FAIL.
    No, George Bush does, when our anti-history president bulled our troops full steam ahead into a region of a conflict that has been going on for 1300 years.

    Your president has now caused a full scale civil war.And that's not bad enough!He wants to put more troops in the direct path to be killed in this civil war.
    (Actually many of the troops are ALREADY there , against the Congress' and American people's wishes)
    Cee is an ideological far right wing zealot, who supports the worst foreign policy decision in our nation's history and tries to take the HIGH GROUND when lecturing about it.

    "By saying our troops are responsible for the deaths of civilians in Iraq, you have pardoned the truly guilty."

    Cee is hitting rock bottom with his accusations and debating skills.
    Noooooooo your president and people like YOU who support this madness is responsible for our troops deaths.
    Get a shovel, blind one, and help dig the graves you send our troops to.

    I want our troops home and safe and let the Iraqi people practive some self determination, instead of us enabling them.
    The Iraqi people have stated in laarge % that they want "the invaders to leave"
    The American people want us to leave.
    Cee wants us to stay, against the wishes of the people he wrongly states we are helping.
    Cee is a reprehensible human being dressed in the cloak of a holy man,fooling no one,but disgusting everyone.

    Bushykill - do you make this stuff up?
    "...our country was about to be attacked by Saddan Hussein."
    Never said that
    "permitting war profiteering "
    Hardly the motivation- but keep saying it.

    And then you say in back to back sentences:
    "a conflict that has been going on for 1300 years."
    "now caused a full scale civil war"
    If it has been going for 1300 years- how did he start it.

    Anyone reading your posts can see within them how dumb and biased you are.

    Great FOX video...the folks involved don't know the difference between Sinclair Lewis and Upton Sinclair...

    The most twisted logic anyone can use ,is to use God in speaking about the righteousness of killing people.

    The Cee/Grammie clan are very twisted individuals.

    Thank God they only make up a small percentage of the blind patriots union in this country.

    Their views have been proven deadly wrong and the American people don't buy their garbage any longer.

    Three cheers for the wisdom of the American people !

    Just learned today that George Bush has hit rock bottom:
    His approval ratings have dropped below that swine, Richard Nixon !

    This is the bottom feeding scum-bag territory Cee and Grammie inhabit.

    Bushykill - do you make this stuff up?
    "...our country was about to be attacked by Saddan Hussein."

    Nooo.... , George Bush and Dick Cheney said it. Want the quotes ?

    Never said that
    "permitting war profiteering "
    Hardly the motivation- but keep saying it.

    No again, War profiteering has been a byproduct of this deadly foreign adventure...but all neatly planned by the best friend a corporation can have: GWB and D. Cheney.

    Catch a clue, please, before you post.

    Who is profitting from the Iraq war?

    Think about it.

    Not the American people.
    Not our troops( they do the same jobs in Iraq as many Halliburton employees for 1/5 the pay.)
    Certainly not the Iraqi people.( We've destroyed their infrastructure, not to mention sent 100,000 people to their graves, directly and indirectly.)
    Not the countries in the region( the region is on the verge of exploding into a regional war, b/c of our invading Iraq)

    Who is profitting?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmm

    The US corporations !
    And ripping off the American people in the process with their over charging and little thing like $ 8 BILLION OF OUR TAX MONEY MISSING IN IRAQ.

    Oh yeah...LET'S PRAISE THE NOBLE CAUSE !

    Bushy- find the quotes-
    Got ten bucks if you can find a quote that says they said they were about to attack us. You'll disappear as you ussually do when asked for proof.

    Need to correct one more of Mr. No Name's ignorant points:

    "a conflict that has been going on for 1300 years."
    "now caused a full scale civil war"
    If it has been going for 1300 years- how did he start it.

    The differences between the Sunnis and Shiites were kept under control by Saddam Hussein.,
    Sure he was a deadly dictator, but that's what was needed to keep these two groups under control.

    George Bush lit a match on this tinderbox, by removing Saddam Hussein, proudly proclaimed we'd be greeted as liberators,had no post war planning.
    Who needs post war planning when you had the mindset of
    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED !

    Learn some history, fool !

    Bushy- find the quotes-
    Got ten bucks if you can find a quote that says they said they were about to attack us. You'll disappear as you ussually do when asked for proof.

    Posted by: at January 22, 2007 11:08 AM

    "The Iraqi dictator must not be permitted to threaten America and the world with horrible poisons and diseases and gases and atomic weapons."
    -- George Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in a speech in Cincinnati.

    "We've learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases ... Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints." -- President Bush, Oct. 7.

    No evidence of this has ever been leaked or produced. Colin Powell told the U.N. this alleged training took place in a camp in northern Iraq. To his great embarrassment, the area he indicated was later revealed to be outside Iraq's control and patrolled by Allied war planes.

    "We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicles] for missions targeting the United States." -- President Bush, Oct. 7.

    And this is just a sampling.
    Pay up a--hole.

    Bushy- are you simply waiting for Chenney or Bush to actually say what you say they did? Do I have to wait for that quote that they said an "attack is imminent"

    Come on fool- bring it.

    Send your address

    Proving to these morons how stupid and wrong they are, is like shooting fish in a barrel.

    I want to thank the creators of Olbermann Watch.
    It's always a joy to educate the ill-informed and right wing nutjobs.

    I've done my part for the day.

    I'm outta here>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

    "I've seen a lot of trash talk spewed to and about anyone who disagrees with the KO fans. But this one seems particularly hypocritical and delusional:

    "If CHTIST ever came back, he'd BE APPALLED AT someone like CEE, using His name to try to justify the barbary of the Bush Administration, and it's attitude towards the poor.

    Cee is the antithesis of being a good Christian.

    Posted by: Bushkill Falls, Pa at January 22, 2007 10:01 AM"

    B Kill accuses Cee of daring to speak for Christ and than proceeds to tell us EXACTLY which of us, notice none included from his side, Christ would be apalled at.

    From God to B Kill's mouth.

    What a putz.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Caps are mine.

    Apparently calling Bush a Terrorist is the same as yelling fire in crowded theater. Good to know.

    Qantas Boots Man for Wearing Bush Shirt
    By Associated Press

    2 hours ago

    MELBOURNE, Australia - An Australian man said he is considering suing national carrier Qantas for refusing to let him onto an international flight because he would not take off a T-shirt calling U.S. President George W. Bush a terrorist.

    Allen Jasson said on Monday he was turned away last Friday at a Qantas departure gate in the southern city of Melbourne when he tried to board a flight to London while wearing a shirt with the a picture of Bush and the slogan "World's #1 terrorist."

    Qantas Airways Ltd. said in a statement: "Whether made verbally or on a T-shirt, comments with the potential to offend other customers or threaten the security of a Qantas group aircraft will not be tolerated."

    Jasson said he wore the shirt unchallenged through official security checks, then approached a Qantas staff member at the gate to draw attention to it because he had been asked to remove it before boarding a domestic flight days earlier.

    "I raised the issue, but I wanted primarily to thank Qantas for relenting when he told me: `I'm surprised you got this far, the staff should have stopped you'," Jasson said.

    Jasson, an Australian who lives in London, said Qantas had offered to put him on another flight if he does not wear the shirt. But he has so far declined.

    "I might forfeit the fare but I have made up my mind that I would rather stand up for the principle of free speech," he said.

    He said he was considering suing the airline, but it was not immediately clear under what law.

    Is that T-Shirt a 'security' risk because Right Wing Nuts might attack him for excercising his right to Free Speech?

    Hmmmmmm...

    B Kill, you seem very sensitive. That is not an argument I would have made because it is inane, foolish, specious and proves nothing.

    But since indicated you were obviously so proud of your great 'Gothcha' line by repeating it, I felt by reversing the argument you might see the fallacy.

    If the shoe fits, I wlll convict.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Opposition will be silenced!

    The airline kid is obviously an a--hole and deserves to have to swim/walk wherever he goes.

    "If the shoe fits, I wlll convict."

    Grammie - Judge, Jury, and Executioner...

    Coming this Fall to Fox.

    (Grammie-I feel sorry for Chubby Hubby...which drawer do you keep his balls in?)

    "The airline kid is obviously an a--hole..."

    Yeah, people who speak their mind are a bunch of a--holes!

    Like half the people on this site...

    you included i guess

    Since when does Freedom of Speech include people I disagree with ! ? !

    They can speak all they want- but his shirt just shows what an a--hole he is. I hope the punk gets caught up in an Al Queda bombing. How ironic would that be?

    Cee:

    I notice a consistant them in your writings that seem to place Christians on one side of the Iraq debate, and "secular humanists" on the other.

    This simply does not jive with reality. I have a brother and a sister who are both deeply Christian (Bible literalists - both), yet they both hate what Bush has done, and is doing, just as strongly as I do.

    And, on your side, you have Janet as an example of a attmitted non - Christian who pretty much believes as you do.

    To everyone else trying to frame the Iraq war debate in this manner...I think your wrong. This is not a Christian argument, nor is it a secular argument.

    from the 'parliament of australia' website:

    Research Note no. 42 2001-02
    Free Speech and the Constitution
    Roy Jordan
    Law and Bills Digest Group
    4 June 2002

    The Australian Constitution does not have any express provision relating to freedom of speech. In theory, therefore, the Commonwealth Parliament may restrict or censor speech through censorship legislation or other laws, as long as they are otherwise within constitutional power. The Constitution consists mainly of provisions relating to the structure of the Commonwealth Parliament, executive government and the federal judicial system.(6) There is no list of personal rights or freedoms which may be enforced in the courts. There are however some provisions relating to personal rights such as the right to trial by jury (section 80), and the right to freedom of religion (section 116).

    now remember, no one outside the country is required to like the usa, even tho we do kind-of EXPECT those within our borders to do so...but he's an aussie in australia being told by a government-owned company what is permitted vis-a-vis 'freedom of speech', or lack thereof.

    Man, BOR had his ass handed to himself on Colbert's show. That was some of the best teevee in a long time.

    "Cee:

    I notice a consistant them in your writings that seem to place Christians on one side of the Iraq debate, and "secular humanists" on the other."

    Mike, have you also noticed the consistent theme of many of the 'Bush haters', BTW your term, of accusing one and all on our side of being duped Christian, gasp, fundamendalists, double gasp?

    That self proclaimed model of reason and Christian love B Kill even goes so far as to claim he KNOWS what God thinks of Cee.

    I can't speak for Cee or anyone else, but I will continue to call them on it as long as they make religion one of the linchpins of their opposition to anything they disapprove of.

    Have you also noticed how often all of us are branded as the antithesis of the self proclaimed true Christians.

    Are you implying that Cee or I don't have a right to respond to this constant drumbeat that we are morally reprehensible?

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet:

    Of course I am not implying that you or Cee are "morally reprehensible". The question surprises me?

    I'm sure that some of my posts express my genuine surprise that you both take the positions that you do, but that in no way questions your morality. It's just an attempt to better understand your positions, and how you arrived at them.

    I think if we could each find a way to somehow do the impossible....to get into each other's minds, we would be genuinely surprised at what we might discover.

    I addressed that particular post to Cee, but I see people from both sides injecting Christianity squarely into the Iraq war debate all the time. In fact, if I were to get all my information from this discussion board, I would firmly believe that 'Christians' unequivably support Bush and his war, and non- Christians don't, which in my experience, it not even close to the truth.

    It's also kind of surprising to suddenly see so much scripture being quoted on this board (from both sides). I have yet to see an argument won by quoting scripture when the argument is between a Christian and a non - Christian.

    Lemme get this straight, now the lilly white fat assed American liberals are dictating to qantas airlines, of Austrailia, what their security policies should be. HAR! These fools couldn't find Iraq on a map 6 years ago.

    Yeah QQ, I guess it was just the 'conservatives' who could find places like Iraq on the map six years ago.

    You guys are just SO smart....kind of like like George Bush, who didn't even know the difference between Shiite and Sunni six years ago.

    I assure you that he knows the difference now!

    Lets see now...is it just the 'liberals' who are "fat assed", or are they all just "lilly white"? Or is it just the 'liberals' that are questioning aitline "security policy"? I'm just so confused!

    I've got a little secret for you jack, it's not just 'liberals' who oppose George Bush!

    The Democrats actually win the Sunni/Shiite Ignance Award

    Incoming House intelligence chief botches easy intel quiz

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Rep. Silvestre Reyes of Texas, who incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has tapped to head the Intelligence Committee when the Democrats take over in January, failed a quiz of basic questions about al Qaeda and Hezbollah, two of the key terrorist organizations the intelligence community has focused on since the September 11, 2001 attacks.

    When asked by CQ National Security Editor Jeff Stein whether al Qaeda is one or the other of the two major branches of Islam -- Sunni or Shiite -- Reyes answered "they are probably both," then ventured "Predominantly -- probably Shiite."

    That is wrong. Al Qaeda was founded by Osama bin Laden as a Sunni organization and views Shiites as heretics.

    Reyes could also not answer questions put by Stein about Hezbollah, a Shiite group on the U.S. list of terrorist organizations that is based in Southern Lebanon.

    You make this measly little list of so-called secularists and leave out the one hundred years of bible propped segregationists.

    What a weak argument you present. Just how many prominent white bible loving men from history do you think we could list who not only used the bible to defend the right of white men to have and hold slaves, but to breed and sell them like animals.
    ==================================================
    So I'd really like to know how many secularists were involved in the abolition movement vs religious people.
    Oh, and keep in mind the following quote:
    "Until a few hundred years ago, there were 2 institutions universal to ANY human society: Marriage [of some kind] and Slavery."
    Slavery- Literally EVERYONE practiced it. Which religion was the first to actually try and end it?


    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    George Bush lit a match on this tinderbox, by removing Saddam Hussein, proudly proclaimed we'd be greeted as liberators,had no post war planning.
    ==================================================
    I'll keep posting this till SOMEONE who posts this crap at LEAST acknowledges that maybe (just maybe) there is a little good news out there:
    www.theotheriraq.com

    "The most twisted logic anyone can use ,is to use God in speaking about the righteousness of killing people. Another pearl of wisdom from B Kill.

    "The evil of evangelical Christianity has no end. Beware the wolves in sheep clothes.

    Cold blank non-humans who make jokes while little children cry over the corpse of their mothers in the streets of Bagdad. All by the hand of the man who says "Jesus Christ is my lord and savior" and by the hands of the devils who argue on behalf of such evils." A gem from Devil Watching Us

    "The evil of evangelical Christianity has no end. Beware the wolves in sheep clothes.

    Posted by: Devil Watching at January 21, 2007 2:49 AM

    That is exactly what they are.

    Posted by: Donora, PA. at January 21, 2007 3:10 AM" Just more of the same.

    "Who build monuments to the prophets that their fathers killed. Who bless with their lips and curse in their hearts.

    Posted by: Donora, PA. at January 21, 2007 3:31 AM

    Exactly,

    Who bless with their lips and curse with their vote!

    Posted by: Devil Watching at January 21, 2007 3:35 AM" More words of wisdom from the dynamic duo.

    "I can't wait until this thread gets picked up by the Religious Wrong tomorrow morning, a Sunday no less!

    I can't wait to see their sit & spin responses as they catch up with this thread in horror.

    Posted by: at January 21, 2007 3:14 AM" No doubt that all the above was logical arguments.

    And the conclusion based on the above from B Kill is:

    "The Cee/Grammie clan are very twisted individuals."


    And from you:

    "Who knew? But I see that people like O'Reilly and Cee have us all figured out!

    Posted by: Mike at January 21, 2007 8:55 PM"

    Mike, do you want to retink that statement.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    You guys are just SO smart....kind of like like George Bush, who didn't even know the difference between Shiite and Sunni six years ago.

    I assure you that he knows the difference now!
    ==================================================
    Our biggest problem Mike is the hold over from Britian's colonial days. Back then they had the 'wise' [term used loosely] policy of putting the smallest minority in charge of a country (thus keeping the rulers of said country "enslaved" to Britian less... well you can probably guess what the result would be if support was pulled). That's the most common reoccuring problem in a lot of mid-eastern countries is that the smallest group of people have been the only ones in charge and they don't want to give up even a small fraction of their power. As my uncle pointed out, the Sunnis have no one to blame for their problems but themselves as, acting like spoiled children, they boycotted the constitutional meetings under the "all or nothing" principle.

    The sad truth is , we've all been on the same learning curve since 9/11. That includes the worlds foremost intelligence agencys. Let's hope the incessant "Bush-hating" doesn't cloud the real issues, as it has here at this message board. Believe it or not, the IS a threat from radical Islam.

    Robert Redford claims he's owed an apology from the Administration. He then premiered at his "Sundance Film Festival", a film based on beastiality. Oh, to be a liberal. HAR!

    "Janet:

    Of course I am not implying that you or Cee are "morally reprehensible". The question surprises me? "

    Mike I did not say or imply that you thought or said any such thing.

    Read what I said again:

    "Mike, have you also noticed the consistent theme of many of the 'Bush haters', BTW your term, of accusing one and all on our side of being duped Christian, gasp, fundamendalists, double gasp?.....Are you implying that CEE OR I DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO RESPOND to this constant drumbeat that we are morally reprehensible?" Caps added.

    I did not accuse you of anything. I asked several straight forward questions. You know me well enough that I don't use all inclusive terms willy nilly.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    This Just In:

    Radical Islam is a Threat!

    Apparently news to Olbermann.

    Apparently news to Olbermann.

    Posted by: Patrick1 at January 22, 2007 2:07 PM

    Based on what? His criticism of the Bush administration?

    Oh yeah, I forgot, unless you're in lock-step with the Bush administration, you're FOR the terrorists.

    That type of narrow minded thinking makes you feel better doesn't it?

    It's just so easy and obvious for the Neocons to claim any and all opposition to them is the same as Islamic Radicalism.

    That type of thinking doesn't survive any sort of critical review.

    If when you look at Democrats, you see people with towels on their heads, you need more than your eyes checked, you need your head checked.

    But I know, I know, it makes it so much easier to understand someone who might disagree with you if consider them 'evil.'

    Keep taking your medication, keep deluding yourself, and keep thinking that if you're not 'With Us' your with 'Bin Laden.

    Oh and speaking of UBL, Dennis Miller said if you're concerned about Bin Laden, you're living in the past in the war on terror.

    Kill 3,000 americans, lay low for five years, get a pass from Dennis Miller.

    He's a true American Patriot!

    Jack Ass.

    "...get a pass from Dennis Miller...."

    Not what he said simpleton. Not what he meant dummy

    Mike,

    The "liberal" posters seem tolerant only to a point....every time I have brought up my personal spiritual beliefs it was in response to an outragous claim made by another poster (usually made between 11PM and 3AM in the morning).

    I especially get pointed in my responses if a poster holds and forcefully states relgious belief in complete contempt (akin to believing in fairy tales) or demands a pluralistic application of a foundational tenet or concept where it is simply illogical (and in some cases bigoted) to demand one. That is the explaination to my reaction and I don't apologize for it.

    Grammie has never placed such demands on the debate...I expect either she sighs and overlooks my absolutism like the kind and humble person she seems to be (like a grandmother) or she agrees with my conclusion but overlooks the methods by which I arrived at it.

    She seems to do the same with others of very different world-views....until the profane name calling....then look out!

    I try to point out the inconsistencies of secular philosophy and I have, recently, only been confronted with more religious bigotry OR Bush baiting. It is hard to have a measured debate with such responses....especially when I am grouped with the KKK.

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    KO couldnt hold a candle to BOR who couldnt hold a candle to SC.
    SC is easily a few deviations above the said persons.Plain brilliant,certainly not a doggish pig headed parrot like Doggerman.

    Look at it this way, Fox News is biased, okay , but in absolute terms, MSNBC is more biased... remember in |absolute| terms without any axes of consideration.
    MSNBC and its staff lean MORE left than Fox does right.

    All those "Colbert killed OR people"
    I actually like Colbert... he satirizes OReilley so well its hysterical.
    Yet- think about this... could someone satirize Olbywad? Seriously not. Nah, he is a joke already.

    No Janet:

    I was referring to just the two names that I noted by name....Cee, and O'Reilly, who do seem to write and talk like they have us all placed in this 'secular' little box...that is, if we don't think like them.

    When you become fond of using terms like "secular humanists", or "secular progressives" to stereotype everyone on the 'other' side of the debate, you are guilty of oversimplifying reality.

    When people start quoting scripture and invoking God to bolster their arguments, they are on a slippery slope...at least in my humble opinion.

    My understanding of Christianity is basically this; Do you accept that Christ is the Son of God, and that he died on the cross to save us from our sins, but only IF we have faith enough to believe in him? The key word here is 'faith'.

    If you can accept this story as fact, and then proceed to practice it's tenants, then you are a Christian. On the other hand, If you cannot accept this story, which cannot be proven scientifically, then you are not...it's that simple.,

    Morality has absolutely nothing to do with it....UNLESS you are one of the many out there who simply pretend to accept this story, and then pretend to practice it's tenants for public consumption. I am not pointing any fingers here, I am just saying that there are many false Christians out there.

    Cee:

    I understand, and I may have been guilty of stereotyping you excessively. If so, I apologize. I agree that there have been some awful bombastic posts attacking Christians and Christianity on this board....unfortunately from MY side.

    Thats one reason I wanted to point out that the Iraq debate does not necessarily revolve around Christianity.

    I am a memeber of a very Christian extended family, in which I seem to be the only non - believer, so trust me, we have these discussions all the time.

    I don't think Olbermann has a clue that Islamo Fascism is a threat. He probably thinks Al Qaeda pitchers for the Washington Nationals.

    You don't have to be in lockstep with Bush to know there is a threat from Islamo Fascism. Given Olbermann's special rants I would say he has no idea what we are up against and doesn't want to know.

    Cee, no, I don't sigh and look away like the indulgent grandma that I am ONLY with my perfect grandchildren

    I have realised that you only raise the subject when you are so vilely attacked. I have my own belief system and I know that there are many other valid belief systems. And those with the same basic core of beliefs frequently arrive at different conclusions while those with differing basic cores of belief arrive at the same conclusions.

    These anti reliious storm troopers are no more than unsure bullies who are not content with their beliefs and conclusions to argue them straight up. No, they have to engage in vicious moral assaults, as if that validates their beliefs and conclusions. It is akin to the 'but BOR. Rush, Hannity etc is so much worse than KO.

    I do have one exception to never ascribing religion to wrongdoing. That is Islam, because its basis in Mohammads work was always BOTH political and religious.

    Keep up the good work. I truly admire your forbearance. For myself, some of these people make me forget that I am a lady.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    To Patrick1:

    I disagree. I think KO knows full well we are up against "Islamo Fascism", and nothing I have heard him say indicates otherwise.

    However, he, like myself, believe that thei "Islamo Facism" is one of MANY things that we are up against, and keeping this one threat in it's proper perspective is what all of us that think pretty much as he does are trying to do.

    About the Obama madrasah issue - Does he even know what “he wrote” in his book?
    There is no such thing as an Islamic secular school, a madrasah is a pre-adult school of Islamic learning just like a Jamia is the university equivalent.
    He went to school in Indonesia, it wasn’t public nor was it Christian then it is a madrasah!
    Good luck to America ,go right ahead and vote for a fraud.

    The bush hating brown-shirts could learn a lot about 'perspective'.

    Mike, you know it is my divine right to have the last word.

    "Posted by: Benson at January 22, 2007 2:39 PM

    No Janet:

    I was referring to just the two names that I noted by name....Cee, and O'Reilly, who do seem to write and talk like they have us all placed in this 'secular' little box...that is, if we don't think like them."

    I noticed you were only referencing Cee in your first post. However, the linking of 'Cee and Grammie' by these bigots runs about 50%. Many comments and responses directed personally at me are indisguisable from their rants to Cee. Those not directed at specific individuals here are directed at ALL who disagree with them. So I felt I had a right, and an obligation, to respond.

    Now, if you'll excuse me I have to address the claim that I have my husban's balls in a dresser drawer.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Not my post!

    Mike: It is the only issue because it effects everything else. Olbermann's hatred of Bush makes it impossible for him to face this reality. He sees everything as conspiracy and moonbat silliness. He has never shown he has the most basic knowledge of this threat and has never come out in favor of any alternative plan.

    He is a sporstcaster with little else going for him other than to play to the moonbats on the net to keep his third/fourth place audience.

    ""If the shoe fits, I wlll convict."

    Grammie - Judge, Jury, and Executioner...

    Coming this Fall to Fox.

    (Grammie-I feel sorry for Chubby Hubby...which drawer do you keep his balls in?)

    Posted by: at January 22, 2007 11:48 AM"

    Well, nameless ball less chicken blogger, you really should make an effort to not ascribe to others what happens in your own life.

    Chubby Hubby had his on him till the day he died and they are buried with him in St Louis No 3 Cemetary.

    Hopefully, whenever you die your wife will take yours out of her purse and put them in the casket with you. Even if she uses a shoebox for your remains there will be plentry of room for yours and a few more plumless wonders.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "it is the only issue because it effects everything else" (Patrick1 regarding 'Islamo Fascism')...

    In my opinion, you are partially right. However, it effects everything else only because our leaders have chosen to frame it this way.

    It didn't have to be this way, and I don't personally have to accept it in those terms.

    "He went to school in Indonesia, it wasn’t public nor was it Christian then it is a madrasah!"

    Yeah, he went for all of two years. Then he went to Catholic school for two more years. Then he moved to Hawaii and went to a regular private school.

    And of course for the last 18 years Obama's been a member of the United Church of Christ, but that fact seems to elude you. Of course, you could do like the other insane people on the right and claim that he's only "pretending" to be a Christian...

    "To Patrick1:

    I disagree. I think KO knows full well we are up against "Islamo Fascism", and nothing I have heard him say indicates otherwise."

    Mike, have you not noticed that KO uses terms like 'alledged' and 'purported' when he refers to any announcement of possible or thwarted terrorist plots. And he frequently makes statements along the line of the administration is using fear tactics with all the 'aaledged' terrorist activity.

    As a master of words, he sure seems to have a problem conveying his ideas to some of us.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    I'm not sure what else we are supposed to concern ourselves with unless you and Olbermann are willing to come up with a number of civilian dead you believe is too many? Apparently 3,000 wasn't it.

    EE, Obama's education and religious practice is immaterial to the country at large right now. Actually, it is virtually immaterial at any time.

    Just as The Guvernator living in communist controlled Austria as a child and that his father was a Nazi sympathizer.

    Idiocy is a joint venture effort.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Well, Patrick, therein is the rub. The more successfully we combat terrorism at home the less important it becomes to some.

    I personally hope they are never proven wrong.

    It is a connumdrum, though. The longer we are safe the more some think the threat is gone and we must back off from the vigilance. The more we back off, the more vulnerable we are to a succesfull attack.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "EE, Obama's education and religious practice is immaterial to the country at large right now. Actually, it is virtually immaterial at any time."

    Agreed, but I'm trying to get out in front of it because someone will try to give it traction.

    EE, very reasonable [ie,you agree with me :)] first point in your response @ 3:39.

    So why did you make this statement " you could do like the other insane people on the right and claim that he's only "pretending" to be a Christ......"

    And then claim to be getting out in front because someone will try to give it traction.

    Come on, EE, pick one.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Sorry Grammie...imprecision on my part.

    I should have said that the "far" right blogs are trying to make an issue out of this - when I refer to "someone" giving it traction, I mean someone within the mainstream media (FOX News has already walked the story back), not someone out there on the lunatic fringe.

    After all the hooplah about the War on Terror do you really think America will vote for a double whammy, a Black and a (maybe closet) Muslim?His middle name is Hussein for crying out loud, last I checked that was a dead Islamic Caliph�s name.Certainly not Christian! He�s probably a closet Muslim just like many northern Masai herders (his father is Masai).

    Obama is all talk, where the heck is he on the issues, what are his positions ... or does he choose to see where Hillary sways to flutter the same way?
    Obama is the PC choice, but not the best choice, just like Bush is an imbecile's choice.

    "Well, Patrick, therein is the rub. The more successfully we combat terrorism at home the less important it becomes to some.

    I personally hope they are never proven wrong.

    It is a connumdrum, though. The longer we are safe the more some think the threat is gone and we must back off from the vigilance. The more we back off, the more vulnerable we are to a succesfull attack.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 22, 2007 3:37 PM"

    Total bullshit. Since 911 happened more than 3000 Americans have been killed and tens of thousands have been maimed because of the failure of George Bush to keep these Americans safe. Just because they were not killed on American soil, and worse, just because they wear the uniform of the United States military the "grannie" thinks she can ignore their value as Americans.

    It is too bad she holds our troops in such poor value. This is a repetitive mantra of the unwise "grannie". Her years have taught her nothing.

    Nothing is more repulsive to me than these anti-democracy and anti-American apologizers for Bush.

    The word "safer" she uses so thoughtlessly also gives no consideration to the detrimental degradation to our constitutional rights this administration has brought about. Our freedoms are a lot less safe because of Bush and the idiots like the "grannie" who support him.

    "Those who are willing to trade freedom for safety deserve neither!"

    You are a pathetic excuse for an American "grannie". This nation has never been more hated and more unsafe than it is now, your backward blind rhetoric is total bullshit.

    "Well, Patrick, therein is the rub. The more successfully we combat terrorism at home the less important it becomes to some.
    I personally hope they are never proven wrong.
    It is a connumdrum, though. The longer we are safe the more some think the threat is gone and we must back off from the vigilance. The more we back off, the more vulnerable we are to a succesfull attack. Janet Hawkins AKA Grammie
    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 22, 2007 3:37 PM"

    Total bullshit. Since 911 happened more than 3000 Americans have been killed and tens of thousands have been maimed because of the failure of George Bush to keep these Americans safe. Just because they were not killed on American soil, and worse, just because they wear the uniform of the United States military the "grannie" thinks she can ignore their value as Americans.

    It is too bad she holds our troops in such poor value. This is a repetitive mantra of the unwise "grannie". Her years have taught her nothing.

    Nothing is more repulsive to me than these anti-democracy and anti-American apologizers for Bush.

    The word "safer" she uses so thoughtlessly also gives no consideration to the detrimental degradation to our constitutional rights this administration has brought about. Our freedoms are a lot less safe because of Bush and the idiots like the "grannie" who support him.

    "Those who are willing to trade freedom for safety deserve neither!"

    You are a pathetic excuse for an American "grannie". This nation has never been more hated and more unsafe than it is now, your backward blind rhetoric is total bullshit.

    The only fear that American politicians have is the utter inability to accept defeat.
    "Lo and behold, we fought the mighty British and staved them, we crushed the Germans we suffocated the Russians and you expect us to accept defeat at the hands of a few uneducated cavemen Ayrabs?"

    You can bet this is exactly what floats in the minds of this current administration, Cheney probably has wet dreams to it!

    QuasiMoto, I used the term 'Bush haters' in two respects. Mike used it and I used it and pointed out that I was using his term. Secondly, the people I am referring to as 'Bush hating storm troopers' descibe themselves as hating Bush and Christians.

    And in that spirit viciously attack those who disagree with them on their ascribed religious motives.

    If you don't like the classification of Bush hater, take it up with them.

    I see a valid analogy between storm troopers and their behavior. Could you suggest a better analogy to me? If not, read some of their words and then tell me that their verbal assaults are not moral equivalents to the storm troopers verbal and phyical assaults.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    More bad news for America haters like, Bob, Mike, Buffalo, and Bushkill Falls. Your buddy Ahmadinejad is about to get the Sadam treatment by his own people. It seems being tuff with this dictator worked and now his own people are turning on him. If we had listen to you appeasement specialist, he would already be pumping out nukes. Liberal failures are proven everyday. HAHAHAHA!;)

    "He's probably a closet Muslim just like many northern Masai herders (his father is Masai)."

    Do you get your talking points from Debbie Schlussel? Because I swear this is EXACTLY the same stupid and narrow-minded argument she made a couple months ago.

    You are essentailly QUESTIONING the strength of Obama's Christian faith (18 years in the United Church of Christ) by intimating that he is a "closet" Muslim. But if we DARE to challenge a Republican's religious bona fides, you would throw a hissy fit. That makes you a hypocrite.

    Yes, Obama's father was Masai. But he was a non-practicing Muslim who left Obama's mother when Obama was very young. So unless you're arguing Islam is genetic, it has no relevance.

    To Janet :
    An online debate effectively ceases to exist when one party succumbs to the literal use of the maximum Nazi and his cohorts on others.
    Just an FYI.

    "but he was a non-practicing Muslim"

    Anything to back this assertion?

    Buffalo, your just a Pro-Jihadist Stalinist idiot. You come from a culture that values silencing dissent. Hey when Chairwoman Hillary seizes power, will you be a Kommisar at one of here Gulags?

    Just because I oppose Obama and raise his Muslim heritage doesnt make me a hypocrite nor does it make me a Republican.But what it makes you is one who is devoid of logical reasoning, who cant see beyond the simplicities of Democrat or Republican politics... in other words a git.
    Both assertions are negated by the following :
    "Obama is the PC choice, but not the best choice, just like Bush is an imbecile's choice.

    Posted by: Macjoubert at January 22, 2007 3:57 PM"

    QED

    Posted by: Macjoubert at January 22, 2007 4:11 PM

    Godwin's rule does not apply. See Modern usage of the term Brown Shirts:

    "Posted by: Macjoubert at January 22, 2007 4:11 PM"

    Many such terms have made their way into a general usage based on the specific in history.

    Look up 'ghetto'. The literal meaning of 'ghetto', a walled of portion of a city for jews was only literally accurate in modern days in Nazi Germany. If you are going to invoke Godwin's rule you should let the Lib Dems know. They use the term frequently.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Anything to back this assertion?"

    Obama's autobiography, statements from his mother and family friends, statements from friends of his late father...

    Anything to back up YOUR ludicrous assertion that he's a "closet Muslim"? Or are you just basing it on his ethnicity?

    EE,It's called reasoning, 60% of northern Masai are Muslim the rest animist (cia.gov), Obama's father is a Masai from the north. Chances are he's Muslim.
    Obama was born to a Muslim father, by Islamic law the child is a Muslim.

    To add to this I didn't assert I postulated see -
    "He's probably a closet Muslim" - learn the difference.

    ""He's probably a closet Muslim" - learn the difference."

    It's still an attack on his religous beliefs no matter how you parse it. And I find that incredibly narrow-minded and a little galling.

    "Obama was born to a Muslim father, by Islamic law the child is a Muslim."

    And your point is what, exactly? Because I think that his two decades of being a practicing Chrisitan outweigh the arbitrary label assigned to him.

    Obamam does scare as mush as Hillary. She's a Stalinist and will build Gulags. At least Obamam respects people he disagrees with. Unlike Madam Hillary who will use here power and alliance with the media to shut down Conservatives and Libertarians.

    The Bush hating brown-shirts could learn a lot about 'perspective'.
    *********************
    As non-Christian, non- Bushite, It never ceases to amaze how quickly mike, bob, and their ilk portray all the worlds ills on either GW Bush or Christian Fundies. This is the lense daily life is viewed through. I pity them and their lack of perspective.

    quasi moto,
    Those people you mentioned are obsessed with Bush. He's in their dreams and very thoughts. He's all they care about.

    Sorry, quasi moto, I misinterpreted your remark My fault.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA grammie

    Grammie , no problembo

    Unlike Madam Hillary who will use here power and alliance with the media to shut down Conservatives and Libertarians.

    ===========================================

    & I thought that Red Wolf was mean to the Islamo-Fascists. Sheesh ...

    The funny thing about your favorite left wing media is that you lib's don't get to pick the candidate who wins your primary. The media picks who they want to win the primary (see Kerry over Howard Dean). The media gave you your marching orders about Kerry and Kerry was elected. Now they will give you your marching orders for Billary and she will be your candidate. Borat Obama doesn’t have a snowball's chance in hell once the media is on Billary's bandwagon. Her smear merchants aided by the media will carve up Obama like a Thanksgiving turkey. You fools must like having the media pick your presidential candidate.

    Factor, love it!! Borat Hussain Obamalamadingdong don't have a chance. VIVA HILLARY!!

    What's all the fuss about Barak Hussain Obama and his reported habit of chain smoking cigarettes? If GW Bush was more concerned with nicoteine and less concerned with war profiteering, our world would be a paradise akin to the pre-invasion Iraq.

    And the conclusion based on the above from B Kill is:

    "The Cee/Grammie clan are very twisted individuals."

    You are twisted. Sorry, but it's a fact. You support a completely incompotent president even much after he has been proved wrong time and again. Remember the roadmap to peace? The mission accomplished? The greeted as liberators? You just can't accept that you are the ones who f---ed up. Not liberals or secularists. You. The so called patriots. You. The so called protestors of democracy have pissed on the constitution and defended a war crime. You. Who call anyone who dares question you a terrorist lover. You. Who let young men die and billions be spent supporting a foreign country, but wouldn't support giving your tax dollars to your fellow Americans in need. You. Who say that you have the moral highground, or that Jesus is your Lord and then talk of preemptive wars. You talk down to everyone who tries to PREVENT war, as if you where the one who is fighting the war. I'm tired, and so is the rest of the country of your twisted world views. Go ahead Janet. Make light of the critics who dare oppose you. Go ahead cee. Call on your savior to cover your support of killings of the innocent bystanders who are caught in your war against terror. I can't stand another condecending post about your version of the bible, or Janets version of anything.

    Excuse me. That was PROTECTORS not PROTESTORS in last post.

    ' I disagree. I think KO knows full well we are up against "Islamo Fascism", and nothing I have heard him say indicates otherwise."

    Mike, have you not noticed that KO uses terms like 'alledged' and 'purported' when he refers to any announcement of possible or thwarted terrorist plots. And he frequently makes statements along the line of the administration is using fear tactics with all the 'aaledged' terrorist activity.

    As a master of words, he sure seems to have a problem conveying his ideas to some of us. "

    Very good point Grammie, but what's his motivation for ignoring these threats or making them sound harmless ? My feeling is that KO only believes in one thing. GWB is evil. That is the only thing about him that I feel is sincere.Oh, and I think you can throw Fox news and O'reilly in there too. If he reports any of this as real he gives Bush credence in his war on terror. I think when he saw how bad his ratings were he decided to go with the things he really has a passion for. Anti-Bush, Anti-Fox.The Far left crowd, Bush bashers, and people against the war would be his audience. I really dont know for sure if he is against the war or believes our constitution is being trampled on. Honestly I dont. I wonder if Hillary were president and she thought terror was a threat, would he then see these as attacks, or still as "alledged "or " purported " ? If she wanted wire taps would he call her a criminal ? I dont think so but I dislike KO so you lefties will ignore this. The only way we will see some proof is if Clinton is elected in 08 . Does anyone think he will attack his idol's wife ? That would be KO's axe by the way. Where will his audience come from then ? That's probably why this creep wants his big raise now. If we get out of Iraq and with Bush gone he only has the Far Left. He could attack Clinton just as easily as he does Bush but will he do it with the same zest he uses for his KO lovers ? He would also have to get a whole new audience. The Fox crowd. I dont think he will opt for that . He could play it straight and just report facts. That would show how just boring his show really is. No, I think he will go after Fox and O'reilly more and anyone going after Clinton are haters. Same show really only Pro-Prez. He can also keep the same villains. Consevatives. Before you Ko people rip me include your thoughts on what Ko will do if Clinton gets elected and we are out of Iraq. I dont think you will embarrass yourselves so you will just say that no matter what reason Ko has for his show that is what you believe and even if it is short lived he is a hero for now.

    KO is not a hero. He just verbalized what most of the country now knows.

    "I can't stand another condecending post about your version of the bible, or Janets version of anything."


    Thinking....

    thinking....

    thinking....

    oh yeah!...

    All the more motivation for me to continue posting.

    cee
    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden


    "Before you Ko people rip me include your thoughts on what Ko will do if Clinton gets elected and we are out of Iraq."

    First, I don't think the Democratic party will settle on Hillary - she's even MORE polarizing than Bush. There are more electable candidates out there.

    Second, the President has stated that troops will be in Iraq through the remainder of his presidency and at least partway into the next president's term. Absent a cut of funding for troops on the ground in Iraq (which is political suicide no matter how it is presented), I have to take him at face value on this. So you're "out of Iraq" premise is flawed.

    That being said, there are still plenty of people who will be spewing vitrol over the airwaves - only this time the vitrol will be aimed AT a Democratic Administration and it will make the Bill Clinton days seem like a teddy bear's picnic. THAT, and the pervading creep rightward of the Republican Party, provides enough fodder for years...

    "Excuse me. That was PROTECTORS not PROTESTORS in last post.

    Posted by: Donora, PA. at January 22, 2007 5:53 PM"

    I wouldn't worry about it. Nothing else you screeded made any sense either.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    EE, You post this from me " what Ko will do if Clinton gets elected and we are out of Iraq."
    And then you start with this " First, I don't think the Democratic party will settle on Hillary " I did'nt ask what you or anyone else thought might happen. I said IF, IF Hillary is Prez and we are out of Iraq. You also posted this "That being said, there are still plenty of people who will be spewing vitrol over the airwaves " I wanted to know what KO will " spew" not others. This is OWATCH why does everyone change the subject ? Because you cant defend him ? You think ? But let me answer your response anyway because I think you are not being totally honest. I agree with 2 things you said ' she's even MORE polarizing than Bush." and " That being said, there are still plenty of people who will be spewing vitrol over the airwaves - only this time the vitrol will be aimed AT a Democratic Administration and it will make the Bill Clinton days seem like a teddy bear's picnic. " Oh Yeah, and if you think Rush and Fox News are popular now just watch if Clinton gets elected. Any Democrat elected president will increase their ratings but Clinton would be gold for them. Everyone posting here knows it is easier and more fun to criticize than cheerlead. Even the left media has to come down on them. Of course not even close to what they do to Bush but they gotta eat and know the public wants negative stories not softballs. Anyway, are you serious with this line ? 'There are more electable candidates out there. ' WHO ? Kerry ,Gore, Obama ? Please . Name a few of the more ' electable candidates " out there for us . Edwards ? She will eat these guys alive. Tell me you just posted too quickly and dont really believe this nonsense. Who can beat her on the right ? Romney, McCain,Tancredo ? I think Rudy could but will the Republicans give him a shot ?

    Donora, dear, does this mean you don't like me anymore. I just want to make sure. You are always so subtle and nuanced.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Maybe Rudy will run as an independent ala Lieberman. Brownback is going to get the support of the Pro-Life movement. If you follow it all, Father Frank Pavone is throwing support for him.

    "I said IF, IF Hillary is Prez and we are out of Iraq."

    And I stated how your prmise is FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED because even if Hillary is president we likely won't be out of Iraq.

    "You also posted this "That being said, there are still plenty of people who will be spewing vitrol over the airwaves " I wanted to know what KO will " spew" not others."

    You misunderstand - let me clarify. The absence of a Bush Administration simply means a shift in targets. There's plenty of conservative "gas bags" that deserve to be punctured, and that will be KO's role in a post-Bush America.

    "Anyway, are you serious with this line ? 'There are more electable candidates out there. ' WHO ? Kerry ,Gore, Obama ? Please . Name a few of the more ' electable candidates " out there for us."

    Obama's electable - he's not weighted down on iraq like Hillary is and he pulls left-leaning independents. His only negative is inexperience but it'll have been 20 years (1988) since a President with extensive federal government experience has been elected when 2008 rolls around.

    I think Edwards can rebound, but his biggest problem is that he's been out of sight since the 2004 election.

    Bill Richardson of New Mexico has good bona fides and he'll get a lot of support from the increasingly politically powerful west.

    Gore and Kerry are non-starters - Democrats aren't stupid enough to put up perceived "losers".

    On the right - it looks like McCain has the inside track, but Romney may charge hard.

    And sharon, the best Guiliani could do as an Independent is be a "spoiler", split the Republican vote and guarantee a Democratic victory (or a "no winner" election that goes to the House of Representatives).

    Sharon, I heard tonight at dinner that Hilary announced on the internet that she is officially a canditate.

    We discussed a possible Repub candidate. Romney was the only one mentioned as a real potential. Whoever it is will likely come from the pool of governors. The last two presidents that came from the Senate were Presidents Kennedy and Johnson.

    I think the Dems are too far in front on this. My position is that we should sit back and let Hilary shred her competition. No doubt in my mind that she isn't the best person available for that job.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet. You are an inteligent and sometimes smarty pants human who drives me nuts. I do respect your opinions. cee. I think is a deluded know it all.

    EE, grated my circle is a small one, like most of us. And none of us perceive McCain as a viable candidate. He has, up till now, had far more support from the MSM than he had with grass roots Repub.

    Now that he is swimming against the tide with Iraq we need look no farther than KO's about face with Senator McCain.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Everybody is just upset over Hillary Clinton'd campaign announcement. Sorry people. Maybe there is another dimension that you can discover where controversy is non - existant. Until then: Deal with it! Your worst nightmare --- & she is speaking in cutsy - talk!!!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!! This is beter than cloning Keith Olbermann !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Grammie,

    I was not commenting on the viability of the candidates but just making some observations. I think if McCain couldn't do it in 2000, he won't ever gain the presidency. I don't recall Mitt Romney's position on Iraq. I know that Brownback takes a position similar to Biden's: there is too much animosity between the Shiites and Sunnis, and the Kurds don't want to get involved so there will ultimately be three countries. I think by the time 2008 rolls around, you'll have the same division in our country as before. The red states and the blue states with a couple of key ones making the difference.

    "Janet. You are an inteligent and sometimes smarty pants human who drives me nuts. I do respect your opinions. cee. I think is a deluded know it all.

    Posted by: Donora, PA. at January 22, 2007 7:32 PM"

    DP, if that is a nuanced apology I decline to accept it. I will, as always, react to what you say.

    I agree that I am, as you put it, a smarty pants sometimes. That is my choice of technique to counter vicious personal attacks as opposed to spewing out ever more vicious attacts in return.

    As they say, we all choose to go to the devil in our own way.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Oh and it will get ugly for Hillary. I don't know what specifically happened bewteen Dick Morris and the Clintons (he was an advisor to Pres. Clinton) but he has been obsessed with Hillary for awhile now and divulges all kinds of personal stories as a Fox News commentator.

    Sharon, I agree. No matter what else, it will be interesting at the least.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "I don't know what specifically happened bewteen Dick Morris and the Clintons (he was an advisor to Pres. Clinton) but he has been obsessed with Hillary for awhile now and divulges all kinds of personal stories as a Fox News commentator."

    That's pretty much what caused the rift - when Morris was an advisor to Bill Clinton's 1996 re-election campaign, it was revealed that he had been having an extra-marital affair with a prostitute and that he had shared voluminous amounts of "personal information" on the Clintons. That information then ended up in the tabloids. Morris was forced to resign.

    There also may be some bitterness that Morris wasn't part of Clinton's 1992 run - he was pushed aside in facor of James Carville and Paul Begala.

    EE, I had forgotten that. Didn't it involve toes instead of cigars.

    How reliable do you think his info is? I've seen him on Hannity and Colmes sometimes, but I've never read any of his books or followed him other in passing.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    For some reason, I kind of like James Carville, maybe because of his wife. I can't remember which election it was but after the results rolled in favoring the Republican party, he put a trash can over his head. It was hilarious. He used to always catch it on Imus. If you're familiar with the show, just picture Bernie humming Dueling Banjos from Deliverence. : )

    Fine EE " And I stated how your prmise is FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED because even if Hillary is president we likely won't be out of Iraq. " Okay, have it your way we are still in Iraq and Clinton is president. What will KO's show be like ? "You misunderstand - let me clarify. The absence of a Bush Administration simply means a shift in targets. There's plenty of conservative "gas bags" that deserve to be punctured, and that will be KO's role in a post-Bush America. " So you are agreeing KO will continue to pound conservatives even if they dont control power ? That he is just a liberal talking point, not the "partial journalist " he claims to be. But I still dont get this " There are more electable candidates out there. " I asked you who and you gave me some names who could run . Bugs Bunny could run. You said more "electable. " I take that to mean right now you see others with a better chance to get the nomination. Before I answered your first claim of this I thought to myself that she has to have at least a 50/50 chance to win the Dem. nomination. No bull I am a gambler and thats the first number that hit my head. I then watched a bit of Chris Matthews and he said in Vegas she is about 50/50 and that is far away ahead of any on the Dem side. He also said which I did not think of that she was a one in four choice for the whole thing which again was far better than anyone's chance on both sides. Now I am not saying she will win or that anyone you named may not beat her. I am just saying that right now she is the odds on favorite. And by a big margin. I hate her but it's obvious to anyone being honest she is the favorite. Name one you think has a better chance . I was going to say I would bet you but thats foolish for how long before we had a winner. So I tell you what show me one poll now that shows that any other Dem is more " electable ". Does'nt every poll show her way ahead? Does'nt that mean more " electable " ?

    I think Dick Morris is coming out with another book on Hillary. The Clintons hire their ilk so when they fire them, I guess they know what kind of tactics to expect.

    DP, if that is a nuanced apology I decline to accept it. I will, as always, react to what you say.

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 22, 2007 7:47 PM

    It was not an apology. You are a smarty pants. The fact that you enjoy being one as you say is your way of dealing with "us". That's fine with me, as is the fact that you see things in a different light. cee however, is a mad man. That fact that he is a Christian makes him without excuse for being so in love with killing.

    Sharon, a gold star comment if I ever saw one.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    karris56, could you do me a favor and start using paragraphs for longer comments. Large blocks of unbroken print are hard to read and can make organizing your thoughts harder too.

    As I mentioned to KK, can you imagine reading a 250 page one paragraph novel.

    No offense intended. I enjoy your posts, but they are so difficult for me to see and keep my place.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    I think Dick Morris is coming out with another book on Hillary. The Clintons hire their ilk so when they fire them, I guess they know what kind of tactics to expect.

    Posted by: sharon at January 22, 2007 8:22 PM

    Dick Morris is just one of many disgraced humans who found a home with Fox. The Clintons are just a money making venture to him. He knows there are enough rednecks out there to keep him rich bashing the Clintons.

    And what qualities do you think the Clintons found attractive enough to make him a campaign adviser? His church attendance record?

    And what qualities do you think the Clintons found attractive enough to make him a campaign adviser? His church attendance record?

    Posted by: sharon at January 22, 2007 8:58 PM

    They fired him.

    Why did they hire him initially? I know he was fired.

    Donora Pa,

    Actually, Morris ran Clinton to the right (see welfare reform) got him all triangulated and re-elected...

    Dollar, where is Mondays recap? It's gettin late. Olby was extra delerious about Fox News. Let's have some fun!

    I'm busy with the pages. Will join in on the recap soon.