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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    January 13, 2007
    Olbermann Unplugged!

    When you endure one of Keith Olbermann's Speshul Komments, the lighting, the B-roll, the scripted camera pivots, the carefully timed looks...all of these have been meticulously crafted by KO's writers and producers. Even the audio is tweaked for maximum demagogic effect. But what would Keith sound like without electronic assistance? On his radio show Friday, John Gibson was able to run the tape through special circuitry that stripped away the artificial enhancements to reveal for the first time the true sound of the infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann. It's Olbermann unplugged! We have an mp3 clip for your listening pleasure:



    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (221) | | View blog reactions
    user-pic

    221 Comments

    Gibby's got it. Olby has always resembled an aging, broken-down, whiny, bitchy queen even before this new revelation.

    i don't get it

    Gibson knows what we all know, Olbermann makes Truman Capote look macho! HAR!HAR!HAR!HAR!

    I have full confidence, with this newest page of nothing, that you will retain the title of "Whiniest, Least Substantial Site on the Web"...

    Having to hear how Keith Olbermann really sounds was disturbing!

    I always imagined he would sound more like Harvey Fierstein...oh well...my fantasy has been shattered.

    Thanks a lot J$! Humph!

    Olbermann always looks, acts and sounds like an Olberkind.

    I can think of many words to describe this, but I will whittle it down to three:

    Lame and Pathetic.

    If this is their "best" shot, then they had better go back to gunnery school.

    I always knew that left wing kraut (Olby)was a caulk sucker.

    Right on to the person who posted at 1:34

    Is this the best ya'll can do to criticize Mr Olbermann? Lame Lame Lame
    Well maybe PrezBush(bless is heart) should try some of these so called tricks after he finishes his skooling by mastering "Hooked on Phonics" and a having a good ole reality check. His silly guffaws and juvenille 'I'm a decider' declarations will be grist for derision for years.


    "When your right ear is pressed to the ground, everything you see and hear appears slanted to the left" -- King-SnuSnu

    So let me try to understand this...
    Fox news, rather than coming up with constructive methods to debate Olbermann, have come back with some lame-ass gay audio clip that sounds like it came from a kindergarden arts and craft class.

    John Gibson is an ignorant tool.

    Given the election results, I'm glad to see people are finally realising how dim-witted conservatives and all their lap dogs actually are

    Is this the best ya'll can do to criticize Mr Olbermann? Lame Lame Lame
    Well maybe PrezBush(bless is heart) should try some of these so called tricks after he finishes his skooling by mastering "Hooked on Phonics" and a having a good ole reality check. His silly guffaws and juvenille 'I'm a decider' declarations will be grist for derision for years.


    "When your right ear is pressed to the ground, everything you see and hear appears slanted to the left" -- King-SnuSnu

    That was great. I love to see that Fox News is finally shooting back at Olbermoronn. The best part is, every time they take a shot at him, they never mention his name. He's such a self-centered egomaniac, it's got to be driving him crazy.

    Teheran Keith should be given a Farsi accent. He basically towed the Ayatollah's line in his special ed comments.

    If MSNBC doesn't renew Krazy Keith's contract, he has a brilliant career ahead of him on al Jazeera.

    Apparently the wingnuts are at a loss of words about Keith's special comment. When so much truth is put into a speech, it is tough to spin and lie to make it sound false. So they have to resort into making the reporter sound gay. Hmmmm, to me it sounded like Gibson talking as a gay and saying that it was Olbermann. Gibby's voice does sound fruity as it is, so they must have just shut off the voice altering equipment, so Gibby could read it in his own voice. Republicunts are the only ones that hide their inner-gayness.

    Nate, you're bitter.

    HAAAA HAAAA, you are funny. I haven't such a good laugh for quite a while.

    That lame attempt by Fox News was...ahem...great ?

    The right is so devoid of humor that even this pathetic attempt at it, got them all revved up.

    He's no Jon Stewart, or Steve Colbert or Bill Maher or Lewis Black.

    You want to see something funny, Watch Lewis Black's Special:Screwed on HBO.
    Now that's funny too !

    Oh...by the way, who does the right have that 's funny?
    No one !

    Now that's funnytoo!

    But this is exactly the kind of sophomoric, no, that's too sophisticated, kindergarten type stunt that Olbermann himself makes on a nightly basis. I never cease to be amused at the hypocritical nature of the Keith-Defender. They have no problem when he employs such means but let someone do to him what he does to everyone else and they have a fit.

    Ann Coulter doesn't count. People laugh AT HER, not with her.

    KAF is DOA.

    Countdown with Keith Olbermann's ratings are up 51% this year.

    Nice try but no cigar.

    Back to the Eagles game...They're going to Chicago next Week !

    Good to see that the in-kind are rallying around their hero when his, ahem, heteroism is questioned. The ladies don't like to be outed, ya know.

    Chin up, gals. Maybe one day you'll have the nation's real men paying for the sh*t you can't afford.....but not yet.

    51%? LOL. That's a laugh.

    Even if Olby's ratings were up by that amount (and I doubt that), he routinely gets his butt kicked by his direct competitors - including game shows run on CNBC. Pardon us if we're not convinced that Olby is a ratings phenom.

    The Colts beat Balitimore! Go Colts!

    Olbermann basically has good ratings on TWO nights of the week: Mondays and Thursdays. It's no accident he schedules his special comments (you know, the ones he claims have to be "organic" in nature and can't be forced) on those two nights of the week to further boost his ratings. He counts on those two nights, when he usually manages to come in second (with half of BOR's ratings in the demo) to carry him through the rest of the week where he comes in third, fourth, fifth. I heard him boast the other day on his radio show about why he thought he'd had this ratings surge. LOL. Seriously. He thinks his ratings are on fire apparently. Please explain to me how he can claim that with a straight face when he's never, ever put together five nights in a row where he came in 2nd to Bill O and has never ever beat Bill O'Reilly on a single night? Yet he's gotten tons of press with articles proclaiming his ratings triumphs when all of that is just plain pure and simple BS.

    What the Olby-apologists don't know about their beloved KO is that he was infamous during his L.A. sportscasting days and even into his ESPN days for making fun of homosexuals, mincing, etc. And rumor has it that he's positively homophobic off-air to this day. The real KO collides quite violently with their ideal of what and who he really is off-air. You get a hint of that with his anti-women comments on air but the reality is 100x worse off-air towards gays, minorities, the handicapped, females, etc.

    "That lame attempt by Fox News was...ahem...great ?

    The right is so devoid of humor that even this pathetic attempt at it, got them all revved up.

    He's no Jon Stewart, or Steve Colbert or Bill Maher or Lewis Black.

    You want to see something funny, Watch Lewis Black's Special:Screwed on HBO.
    Now that's funny too !

    Oh...by the way, who does the right have that 's funny?
    No one !

    Now that's funnytoo!

    Posted by: Bushkill Falls, Pa"


    Bushkill taking a humorous poke at Olbermann seriously enough to come out swinging...

    That's funny too!

    From this Site's FAQ:

    Q. Why are you obsessed with Keith Olbermann?
    A. Are we?

    A key feature of obsession is a total lack of acknowledgment from the afflicted.

    And of course there's nothing more dodgy than answering a question with a question.

    OlbermannWatch:

    O'Reilly Based News for the Belligerently Uniform

    Everyone in lock-step now...March!

    "John Gibson was able to run the tape through special circuitry"

    Now that's an image I can't get out of my head...Mix Master JG behind the mixing board with his 'special circuitry.'

    Ah, the toys Rupert gives his boys to play with. I wonder if he pays for Gibby's spray-on hair too.

    It is so sad that the wingnuts will follow their beloved RWers to the death, not their own death, but to the death of ourer great nation. The RWers had always claimed that we were the strongest nation on Earth. Before this retarded debockel in Iraq, we could have continued saying that and been believed. But thanks to the RWers butt-f---en buddies, we are looked at as a third rate bully of the world. We now have not the military or the money to ward off an attack on our country. Thank you RightWingers for decreasing our beautiful nations' security. We could have scared off invaders for years on end if it wasn't for ego's and oil.

    "Thank you RightWingers for decreasing our beautiful nations' security. We could have scared off invaders for years on end if it wasn't for ego's and oil."


    Yer welcome. Don't forget Jesus and Halliburton!

    Oh, I'm sorry. I leaked a little truth the you brainwashed pigf*cken right wingers.

    I meant REAL invaders, not 19 dopes crashing planes, I mean nations like China or Russia. The wingers are going to get us into WWWIII if things keep going as they are. DUH,,,, open your eyes, or remain blinded by the right.

    Ceceilia, Jesus preached peace. At his return he claimed he would pick up the sword and destoy evil, but he never preached that he condoned that humans do that. Jesus condones us to be peaceful, and let him do away with evil, but I'm sure your bible translated by Robertson, Falwell, or, "please god forgive me and any readers of that version of the Holy Bible" Haggert.

    "A British newspaper reported Sunday that Prince Harry was scheduled to begin final training for deployment to Iraq with his army regiment"

    The Crusades Continue...

    "but I'm sure your bible translated by Robertson, Falwell, or, "please god forgive me and any readers of that version of the Holy Bible" Haggert."

    You're slipping again.

    You're forgetting the King James Version we righties love.

    (James Dobson...)

    bushkill falls

    Eagles Lose! Eagles Lose!

    E-A-G-L-E-S...........LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Olby's ratings are up 51%. The Eagles are going to Chicago next week.

    Must be nice to live in a Fantasy World.

    Don't be using my name in this site.

    Lawsuits are waiting.

    Shit! They're right about Keith. What do I do? Oh, I know! This should take their mind off Keith.

    Bush sucks. Yada Yada Yada. Iraq. Yada Yada Yada. Republicans suck. Yada Yada Yada. Kill the rich. Yada Yada Yada. Christians suck. Yada Yada Yada.

    Whew. That was close!

    I am the most important person in the Worrrrrrrld!!!!

    No, I am the most important person in the Universe EVER!

    OLby's ratings are up 51 %.But brain damaged Puck can't accept that b/c it doesn't fit into his preconceived reality.

    More Proof a Democratic Congress is better for the Country :
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Sunday, January 14, 2007;

    House Republican leaders, who confidently predicted they would drive a wedge through the new Democratic majority, have found their own party splintering, with Republican lawmakers siding with Democrats in droves on the House's opening legislative blitz.

    Freed from the pressures of being the majority and from the heavy hand of former leaders including retired representative Tom DeLay (R-Tex.), many back-bench Republicans are showing themselves to be more moderate than their conservative leadership and increasingly mindful of shifting voter sentiment. The closest vote last week -- Friday's push to require the federal government to negotiate lower drug prices for Medicare -- pulled 24 Republicans. The Democrats' homeland security bill attracted 68 Republicans, the minimum wage increase 82.


    "You're freer to vote your conscience," said Rep. Jo Anne Emerson (R-Mo.), who received an 88 percent voting record from the American Conservative Union in 2005 but has so far sided with Democrats on new budget rules, Medicare prescription-drug negotiations, raising the minimum wage and funding stem cell research. "Or, really, I feel free to represent my constituents exactly as they want me to be."

    "You;re freer to vote your conscience " said Rep. Jo Anne Emerson ( R-MO)
    (under a Democratic Congress)

    This is something the righties won't touch !

    Are the Eagles still going to the Saints-Bears game in Chicago next week, Bushkills? I guess they're scouting for next year after choking away another playoff game.

    You can't touch my political points so you revel in an Eagles loss.

    Funny !

    Wonder how Red State feels that people even in the red states in America are abandoning Bush and his policies.
    2/3rds of America is against this escalation into the Vietnam, excuse me Iraq War.

    You got nothing.

    Bush's best Democratic buddy, Lieberman, is now giving Bush a pass on the Katrina debacle :

    Newsweek
    Updated: 5:17 p.m. ET Jan 12, 2007

    Jan. 11, 2007 - Sen. Joe Lieberman, the only Democrat to endorse President Bush's new plan for Iraq, has quietly backed away from his pre-election demands that the White House turn over potentially embarrassing documents relating to its handling of the Hurricane Katrina disaster in New Orleans.

    Last year, when he was running for re-election in Connecticut, Lieberman was a vocal critic of the administration's handling of Katrina. He was especially dismayed by its failure to turn over key records that could have shed light on internal White House deliberations about the hurricane, including those involving President Bush.

    Now he's against letting the public know about Bush's failures with Katrina.

    Flip Flop !

    The Katrina recovery continues to be a disgrace.
    Bush has his head up his ass, with Iraq and still ignores the devastation of a great American city.

    While the wing nuts at this cheer !

    Bush's best Democratic buddy, Lieberman, is now giving Bush a pass on the Katrina debacle :

    Newsweek
    Updated: 5:17 p.m. ET Jan 12, 2007

    Jan. 11, 2007 - Sen. Joe Lieberman, the only Democrat to endorse President Bush's new plan for Iraq, has quietly backed away from his pre-election demands that the White House turn over potentially embarrassing documents relating to its handling of the Hurricane Katrina disaster in New Orleans.

    Last year, when he was running for re-election in Connecticut, Lieberman was a vocal critic of the administration's handling of Katrina. He was especially dismayed by its failure to turn over key records that could have shed light on internal White House deliberations about the hurricane, including those involving President Bush.

    Now he's against letting the public know about Bush's failures with Katrina.

    Flip Flop !

    The Katrina recovery continues to be a disgrace.
    Bush has his head up his ass, with Iraq and still ignores the devastation of a great American city.

    While the wing nuts at this site cheer !

    The Republican Party: The party that abandoned an American city,the party of corruption, disgrace and a failed Iraq policy that has caused 3,000 American deaths.( and counting)

    Yet the wing nut cases cheer that the deficit is going down.

    AAhhhhhhhh, who was responsible for the gigantic deficit in the first place ?

    You got nothing.

    and you won't talk about the monstrous debt that keeps increasing.

    In case you're wondering what the White House is trying to hide on Katrina...
    Among the missing material: the record of a videoconference in the White House Situation Room in which former Federal Emergency Management Agency chief Michael Brown said he warned senior officials about the dire situation in New Orleans, but was greeted with "deafening silence." Also missing: records believed to include messages and conversations involving the president, Vice President Dick Cheney and their top aides during the days in late August and early September 2005 when the Katrina disaster was unfolding and thousands of city residents were flocking to overcrowded shelters and hanging onto rooftops awaiting rescue.

    Look away Republicans, Olby haters and revisionists !

    Change the subject Democrats, Liberals, Olby Apologists and Excusers!


    Watching the nutty right lose both houses of congress: free

    Watching them desparately compare dissent to treason in a sad attempt to demagogue their way in to more war: amusing

    Watching Bush demand that Dems offer an alternative plan to clean up his mess in Iraq lest they be seen as 'irresponsible': surreal

    Watching medicare drugs, reccomendations of the 911 commission, ethics reform, a new minimum wage, and capping defecit increases all passing with veto-proof majorities in the House: inspiring

    Watching the subpoenas start flying next week: gratifying

    Watching Bush get IMPEACHED will be: priceless

    You Republicans can take your religion and cram it; you can take your fake, baseless piety and do the same thing. You can take your bankrupt ideology and go and jump in the lake. Olbermann just calls you on what you've done, and you can't stand it....mostly because you can't bear the idea of taking personal responsibility for what you've wrought, I suppose.

    I hear a lot of Republicans these days saying, "Bush isn't a *real* conservative, he's aligned with these neocon weirdos'.

    Guess what. You if you voted for this incompetent twice, you have nobody to blame for the state of the country right now but YOURSELF.

    Republicans....the party of "personal responsibility" taking responsibility for what they have done? C'mon, you know that would be asking way too much of them!

    When Republicans cheer that the "deficit is going down", it's a little like someone who is drowning in debt and literally living on their credit cards taking heart because they didn't add quite as many new charges THIS month as they did LAST month.

    It sounds good until you examine just what it is they are bragging about.

    The bottom line is that the Federal debt is STILL rising at an alarming rate and our children will have to pay this debt....one way or the other!

    'Decreased' deficits are nothing to crow about....when and if we ever achieve and sustain a surplus again.....only THEN will it be anything to be proud of.

    If KO has an absolute lock on absolute truth as many here say, then his words would ring with that truth in any voice, any accent and any cadence.

    Crying foul at the use of SNL type humour means only one thing to me.

    The message is flawed and his admirers realize that and are totally lacking perspective and/or humour themselves.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    You people kep referring to those of us who watch and listen to KO as 'admirers'.

    We don't think like that. I am not a 'fan' of KO or anybody else. ALL humans are flawed and placing other humans on pedestals is idiotic.

    Our society does it all the time, but it is inane nonetheless.

    Olbermann is saying things that need to be said and thats why I watch...it's thats simple!

    You wanna know something else that is inane? Someone calling himself a'newsman' Using "special circuitry" to "strip away artificial enhancements" to try to trash a competetor with a message he doesn't like....now THAT is juvenile!

    Grammy,

    Perhaps you hadn't noticed; conservatives aren't widely regarded as being funny. Gibson is very nearly the opposite of funny.

    In my limited observations, the best conservatives can evoke is the sneering-knowing-chuckle from their own choir.

    Or, rarely, round laughter at the odd 'you might be a redneck if...' joke.

    SNL-type humor? Please. If that's what this was supposed to be, it was an abortive attempt at best.

    And, knowing you're a conservative, I'm suprised you're defending anything...abortive.

    Is John Gibson's radio show advertised as a news show ? Himself as a newsman? I don't know. I have never heard it or heard any advertisements for or about it.

    If that is the claim, I would go one step further in your critcism.

    This would be an absolute breech of trust on his part and he should be called down about it.

    The same standard that KO should be held to and is not by his employer and virtually all of his followers.

    BTW, pasted from the dictionary under fan:

    "—Synonyms supporter, enthusiast, partisan, booster, addict."

    And, BS if you haven't any experience of conservatives being funny or able to laugh at themseves as well as others, you might be a humourless lib.

    I loved the Church Lady and and the spoofs of Ronalus Magnificus and the Bushes. But I also loved spoofs of Algore in the debates. Humour is universal, always based in a kernal of truth and tragedy. Surely you aren't implying that none of that is present on the left side of the aisle.

    Lighten up.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Broadsword:

    Interesting observation, and one I've thought about many times.

    It IS really fascinating that the VAST majority of comedians are left leaning. Perhaps 'humor' is a deep seeded recognition of the many ironies and hypocracies that exist in the world along with an ability to laugh at and co-exist them.

    Maybe it is the ability to see many shades of gray where the most staunch Conservatives seem to be capable of only seeing black and white. Maybe it is in the way the brain is wired, therefore, no amount of reasoning could ever really get through.

    Is John Gibson's radio show advertised as a news show ? Himself as a newsman? I don't know. I have never heard it or heard any advertisements for or about it.

    If that is the claim, I would go one step further in your critcism.

    This would be an absolute breech of trust on his part and he should be called down about it.

    The same standard that KO should be held to and is not by his employer and virtually all of his followers.

    BTW, pasted from the dictionary under fan:

    "—Synonyms supporter, enthusiast, partisan, booster, addict."

    And, BS if you haven't any experience of conservatives being funny or able to laugh at themseves as well as others, you might be a humourless lib.

    I loved the Church Lady and and the spoofs of Ronalus Magnificus and the Bushes. But I also loved spoofs of Algore in the debates. Humour is universal, always based in a kernal of truth and tragedy. Surely you aren't implying that none of that is present on the left side of the aisle.

    Lighten up.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "And, knowing you're a conservative, I'm suprised you're defending anything...abortive."

    Keep your day job, unless it is as a comedy writer. In that case, get a new one. :)

    Hey will,
    You think the most staunch liberals see those shades of grey? Hippies, animal rights terrorists, GLAAD, MAAD, Rainbow push etc.... Yep all proponents of that grey area.

    I am the funniest man alive.

    "You people kep referring to those of us who watch and listen to KO as 'admirers'. We don't think like that. I am not a 'fan' of KO or anybody else. ALL humans are flawed and placing other humans on pedestals is idiotic."

    Really now! And you speak for all Olbermann fans? Because I gotta tell ya that a quick visit to the Keith Olbermann forum on Democratic Underground, the forums at keitholbermann.org, or the "official" Countdown message board at MSNBC.com would reveal an entirely different mindset, as would visits to ANY of the fan websites linked to here at Owatch.

    These people are positively pychotic in their insistence that Keith is perfect! Keith is an elevated being! Keith is the Edward R. Murrow of our times! Anyone who says anything against him must be taken out and shot. In fact, the majority of these sites censor the posts that are made at their sites to make sure that nothing is ever said that is negative in any way, shape, or form towards Keith. Keith's more fanatical fans made sure that one fan site that dared to question his status as a perfect being was destroyed because they couldn't stand hearing that Keith was anything less than perfect.

    You really do need to get clued in to what the average Olbermann-fan mentality is like there "Will" because I can tell you that your insistence that Keith is human does not jive with the official word from Keith's fanatical fan following who eat up each and every word he says and worship him as a GOD.

    Humorless libs. You mean like George Carlin? Maybe it's Richard Pryor you're talking about...

    The cannon of Comedians is, as noted above, left leaning almost in its entireity.

    Wonder why that is?

    And Dennis, obscure sub-referencing humor was funny...in the eighth grade. Try making another out-of-context Mummenschanz joke on Monday Night Football, why don't you?

    You might be a redneck if....you came around to thinking Dennis Miller is a hoot shortly after he started kissing Bush's pecker.

    Psychotic fans. Forgot the "s". And sure as the sun rises in the morning, one of Keith's psychotic fans will pop up to let me know that I spelled the word wrong. They have a LOT of free time on their hands.

    Oh, did you know dear Will that one website posts sexual fantasies,graphic ones about KO? I think you need to know the type of people you are in league with when you appoint yourself as spokesperson for your average Olbermann fan.

    Keith is a legend! Keith is a stud! Keith is perfect! Keith is a God! Keith's farts smell wonderful!

    Grammy - and, to your point that 'Humour is universal, always based in a kernal of truth and tragedy.' - I'd agree, and perhaps that's why there's so few conservative comedians:

    You guys are so disconnected, so willfully blinded from the truths that don't comport to your ideology...while simultaneously unwilling to admit the tragedy of your folly that it would be next to impossible to make a good joke at your own expense....or, more accurately one that wouldn't be greeted with a protracted uncomforable silence.

    Self-deprecation and attempts at humor over what you've done ends up looking like this:

    "This is an impressive crowd - the haves and the have-mores," quipped the GOP standard-bearer. "Some people call you the elites; I call you my base."

    and this gem:

    "Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere," Bush joked. "Nope, no weapons over there ... maybe under here?"

    (that was SO funny to the guys baking in their armor in Iraq. I know some Marines that are STILL laughing over that little joke. Ha. ha.)

    Oh yeah; and at it's zenith, conservative humor is embodied in Rush Limbaugh making fun of a guy with late-stage advanced Parkinson's disease.

    Keith is a legend! Keith is a stud! Keith is perfect! Keith is a God! Keith's farts smell wonderful!

    Posted by: Keith Fan at January 14, 2007 3:32 PM

    You are a jerk.

    Oh yeah; and at it's zenith, conservative humor is embodied in Rush Limbaugh making fun of a guy with late-stage advanced Parkinson's disease.

    Posted by: broadsword at January 14, 2007 3:41 PM

    They have no sense of humor. Most of the Fox people look like they have a pencil shoved up their ass and that's how "most right wingers" go through life. It's why it is so easy for them to support killing people that never did anything wrong to them.

    I and others have been accused of many grievous shortcomings and faults just because we are conservative poliitically.

    But the only acceptable humour, the only foibles to laugh at belong solely to conversatives.

    I guess the moral is to never underestimate the ability of libs to be overweening in their self adulation.

    Still asking, is J Gibson advertised as and presents himself as a newsman? No answer?

    How convenient Eummmmmmmm.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    No I am the funniest.

    * "The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that: there are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention."

    And regarding Palestinians who want their own state:

    * Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs From The Same General Area Who Are In Deep Denial About Never Being Able To Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."

    This discussion is surreal. If its that important to you guys, what the hell. I'll go along.

    Libs, epecially libs who stand behind KO, are the funniest things that have ever taken up space and resources on the planet.

    You can quote me anytime at all. I stand behind my statement.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet,
    You are obviously for torturing gay homeless black children who immigrated from South Africa all the while listening to their phone calls telling them what religion they should be and then exploiting their labor.

    Libs, epecially libs who stand behind KO, are the funniest things that have ever taken up space and resources on the planet.

    You can quote me anytime at all. I stand behind my statement.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 14, 2007 3:54 PM

    No Janet. Funnier is people who support Dick Cheney, who is the most incompetant and biggest liar to EVER be VP.

    Loon, up till now furtive sneak 'they' furtive sneak suspected it but couldn't prove it.

    Sssshhh! Mums the word.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Grammie; I think he's officially presented as a 'jerk-off' or 'partisan hack' or more diplomatically as a 'media-pundit' now.

    Previously, he was:

    "Prior to joining Fox News, Gibson hosted news talk programs on MSNBC and covered the Lewinsky scandal at length. He began his career in the late 1960's as a staff reporter for the entertainment gossip magazine, the Hollywood Reporter, and was a reporter and weekend anchorman at KCRA, the NBC affiliate in Sacramento, during the 1980's. He later joined NBC News as a correspondent before moving to MSNBC."

    so, long history in the gossip reporting business (the legit side of the business, to be sure).

    He doesn't really qualify as a legit reporter.

    He's just a butthole:

    "When London was chosen to host the 2012 Summer Olympics, Gibson said that he regretted that Paris had not been chosen because it would have subjected that city to the threat of terrorism. He also has stated that no one would care if France was a victim of a terrorist attack."

    "On the July 12, 2005, edition of Fox News's The Big Story, host John Gibson said that White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove should be given "a medal" for outing covert CIA operative Valerie Plame, adding that Plame "should have been outed by somebody."

    "On the January 19, 2006, edition of Fox News's The Big Story, after the release of a tape by militant Osama Bin Laden, Gibson stated, "(Bin Laden) is talking to America's far left and saying, 'You know what. We're on the same side. So why don't you work on that hardhead George W. Bush? Bin Laden told us Thursday that our far left has been working for him. It's their poll results he quotes.'"

    "In his defense of Ambassador John Bolton and repudiation of the United Nations and the Third World, referring to the Third World, "That latter group includes a huge number of so-called nations, little more than spots on the map that would get invaded, taken over, subsumed, eliminated, except no-one wants to get stuck with their problems of poverty, disease and corruption."

    "On the May 11, 2006 broadcast of The Big Story, Gibson called for caucasians to have more children. His reasoning appeared to be in part to prevent Hispanics from ever being the racial majority in America. It is projected by the U.S. Census Bureau that persons of Hispanic descent will make up well over one-third of the U.S. population by the year 2050. The next day he said that he meant all Americans should have more children."


    I need to correct myself. John Gibson is one Fox person who does not look like he has a pencil shoved up their ass. He has a very large board.

    BS, long answer to a short question. I hesitate to mention it because I've been known to do the same thing.

    What I got from that is he has a background in reporting, but fluffy reporting. I know it is subtle, but you seem to be prancing and mincing around the edges of diapproval with words like 'butthole'.

    Very entertaining, but how does he and his employers advertise him NOW? Is he reporting or commenting?

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    From Gibson's official FOX News bio:

    "John Gibson hosts The Big Story With John Gibson, a one-hour program that provides in-depth coverage and analysis of the day's top stories.

    Prior to joining FOX News in September of 2000, Gibson worked at MSNBC hosting the network's news talk programs, including Newschat and Internight. He was also a substitute anchor for CNBC's Rivera Live.

    Before that, Gibson served as a West Coast correspondent for NBC, where he provided extensive coverage of key news events, including the O.J. Simpson criminal trial, America's involvement in Mogadishu, Somalia, and the invasion of the Branch Davidian Compound in Waco, Texas."

    Sounds like they're playing up his "news" bona fides. I'd have to say they are trying to bill him as a "newsman"...

    Grammie;

    It's hard for me to watch Fox for more than a minute or two without puking, so I'm not sure.

    He's listed on foxnews.com as having a show called 'Big Story', so it would seem as though they're positioning him as some kind of a newsman.

    I'm only saying that because his promo bio blurb leads with 'In depth coverage and analysis' and 'Learn more about Gibson's extensive news experience!'

    So high are the standards of Fox News that they have a powderpuff like Gibson, and an ex-weatherman like Doocy running shows in their news division.

    Codas, Codas, Codas, what are you doing out playing with the big kids. Shouldn't you be about your important mission.

    Rooting out all those genetically deformed Repubs molested by their parents and carrying on the tradition with their own spawn.

    Keep a glorious image in your mind and soul to motivate you. St George slaying dragons.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Codas, Codas, Codas, what are you doing out playing with the big kids. Shouldn't you be about your important mission.

    Rooting out all those genetically deformed Repubs molested by their parents and carrying on the tradition with their own spawn.

    Keep a glorious image in your mind and soul to motivate you. St George slaying dragons.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie


    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 14, 2007 4:44 PM

    Janet, get over my " no daddy don't joke". I was quoting someone else anyway.

    EE and BS, what you seem to think you are saying is that Fox emphasizes his news credentials in his BIO. Info is always welcome, but what is his TV Show and his Radio Show promoted as. And what are the glaring distinctions between KO and JG in this respect that illustrates the stark difference you both seem to see.

    Walter Cronkite, the most respected TV jounalist, revealed after his retirement that he was and is very liberal and opposed conservatives. It seems you are OK with this only if the bias is in your direction.

    And if your input is potentially flawed what makes you so sure your output might not be flawed.

    Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander. GIGO.

    Feeling good and having our own inner beliefs stroked should not be the final word. Double standards aren't appealling either.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Codas, so it was a JOKE. Too bad. If you've read this thread, including your own comments, I am devoid of and incapable of humour.

    I already copped to the charge. I have a blind spot about humour (see this thread again), but I don't see the humour.

    Wrong again, Grammie.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Haha. The "discussions" among the OlbyLoons are an endless source of entertainment. Is John Gibson a "newscaster"? Is a radio talk show a "newscast"? Gibson is an opinionator; that's how he describes himself. He used to be a reporter; now he's an opinionator. And opinionators give opinions, even the ones that were (rather inaccurately) quoted from the blue blogs.

    Speaking of comedy and politics, did anyone catch the latest Dennis Miller rant on H&C?

    He actually said that he doesn't care about catching Osama Bin Laden anymore and insinuated those who do are 'living in the past' concerning the 'War on Terror.'

    C'mon DM, Order the murder of 3,000 plus americans and as long as you lay low for awhile you get a pass? That's enough to make any American nauseous-left, right, or otherwise.

    Opinionator:

    \O*pin"ion*a`tor\, n. An opinionated person; one given to conjecture.

    [Obs.] --South.
    Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996

    That definition works for me.

    con·jec·ture

    1.The formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

    See, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    Nice self-description Gibby!

    WASHINGTON - President Bush, facing opposition from BOTH PARTIES over his plan to send more troops to Iraq, said he has the authority to act no matter what Congress wants.

    "I fully understand they could try to stop me from doing it. But I've made my decision. And we're going forward," Bush told CBS' "60 Minutes" in an interview to air Sunday night.

    Vice President Dick Cheney asserted that lawmakers' criticism will not influence Bush's plans and he dismissed any effort to "run a war by committee."

    ...a war by committee.

    ...a government by committee.

    The decider don't do committees. 'Committees' haven't been to kind to this president, so heck with committees.

    Eveyone knows that governments are best ran by the singular vision of a small cabal of deeply religious people who follow orders from God.

    Welcome to the United States of Iran.

    Oh, look. See I SoSelfDeluded. See him spin. He is funny. He is so funny. See ISoSelfDeluded tell 500 year old jokes. He is so funny.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    YouSoParanoid,

    Chill out, 'bro.

    Now I know you all really thought I was the guy from Arizona...but I really am not!.....

    From AP today:

    "GOP Sen. John McCain of Arizona, a potential 2008 presidential contender who endorses Bush's call for more troops, said votes to express disapproval were pointless. 'If they're dead serious,' he said of those fighting Bush's strategy, 'then we should have a motion to cut off funding.'"

    Ah Ha! Finally, Senator McCain is calling out to the anti-war politicians to stand up and fight! Come on now, leftists....do you have the guts?

    No "symbolic" votes....chickens!

    No "no-confidence" debates....baby whiners

    No more staged dress-downs of administration officials at hearings to see if they'll cry (I can assure you...it won't happen!).

    Vote to cut the funding...force Bush's hand.

    Rubber-hit-road time, liberals....You are supposed to stop the maniacs in The White House, aren't you?

    "Oh, look. See I SoSelfDeluded. See him spin. He is funny. He is so funny. See ISoSelfDeluded tell 500 year old jokes. He is so funny."

    "YouSoParanoid, Chill out, 'bro."

    Very well thought out rebuttals.

    C'Mon, Grammie, I thought you were above accusing someone of spin without so much as an attempt to actually explain what you mean. MeSoDissappointed.

    "Oh, look. See I SoSelfDeluded. See him spin. He is funny. He is so funny. See ISoSelfDeluded tell 500 year old jokes. He is so funny."

    "YouSoParanoid, Chill out, 'bro."

    When you attack the messenger, instead of the message it tells EVERYONE everything they need to know about the weak foundation of your viewpoints.

    MeSoDissappointed, but not surprised.

    YouSoUnhinged,

    When's the last time you got arrested after being butt f---ed? If the answer is never, then this is still the good ole' USA and you can sleep well tonight. If it has happened then you can tell us all about it.

    MeSoDissappointed, there is no rebuttal. I conceded the point. You probably missed it because you were doing your standup routine.

    You may quote me whenever you have a really important point to make:

    "Libs, epecially libs who stand behind KO, are the funniest things that have ever taken up space and resources on the planet."

    You leave the arena victorious. What more do you want? My firstborn.

    ISoDefeated,

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "YouSoUnhinged,When's the last time you got arrested after being butt f---ed? If the answer is never, then this is still the good ole' USA and you can sleep well tonight. If it has happened then you can tell us all about it."

    More of the same. Very Sad. It obviously angers you to be wrong. You can either be angry, or you can actually get informed. The choice is yours. I'm not Gay, nor do I consider being called Gay an insult. So you can save your 3rd grade antics for someone who might be offended.

    Rico, come on. That last comment was beneath you and out of line.

    Remember, slicing with a scapel is more painful than bludgeoning with a broadaxe.

    It also gives you the high ground, which by right, is ours anyway.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Grammie-

    I'd appreciate your last response more if you didn't accuse me of 'spin' in the prior post.

    Yes, I try to use humor to make a point. I'm not an angry person. I see humor everywhere, especially here!

    ...And just as a reminder, I don't exactly stand 'behind' KO. I know you aren't saying I do, but I just want to make it clear for everyone. KO's got his own issues. I am critical of Libs AND Cons...it's just the Cons have given me plenty of material for my routine of late.

    YouSof---edUpInTheHead,

    Why don't you go take a poll? Poll every Democrat in Congress. Just ask them if they agree that this is "The United States of Iran". Then report back to us with your results.

    I'm starting to think this blog doesn't have any room for an Independent.

    Reading your guy's arguments back and forth is like witnessing a moveable object encounter a resistable force.

    YouSoRunningOutOfBullets,

    You did not respond to my poll suggestion. Who is the "moveable object?" I haven't moved.

    Why are you not afraid that people will think you are paranoid? That's what concerns me.

    I'm hoping most readers of this blog (Rico excluded) understand my point that when you run a country based on what your God tells you to do, ignoring the checks and balances the other branches of goverment are supposed to supply, then you are actually taking a huge step closer to an Iranian style theocracy. A clear thinker would appreciate the scary irony of that fact. That's not a pro-Islamic view or an anti-Christian view, it's just me calling it like I see it and I'm not alone.

    Grammie,

    How can one debate a person who calls this country the "United States Of Iran?" There's not much to say about that, except to question the sanity of the person who says that.

    YouSoDeluded,

    We are not a "step closer to an Iranian style theocracy". You are paranoid. There is no "scary irony" other than that you have more personal freedom than 99% of the people who have ever lived and you act like the Evil Empire is about to put the hammer down. You are just a lefist version of the "black helicopter" wackos.

    WOW, Ridiculing gays to ridicule Keith? Why don't you try refuting his points instead of the personal attacks?

    Grammie Take One"

    "See I SoSelfDeluded. See him spin"

    Grammie Take Two:

    "I conceded the point."

    That's what you consider conceding the point? Remember a couple've days ago when I said the only person you should agree with 100% of the time is yourself, and some of the people here would have a hard time with that?

    That's kinda what I meant.

    YouSoSelfDeluded, when you have suffered the "outrageous slings and arrows" that turn the sky black here I'll consider your point.

    For your perusal just two quotes from you:

    "McHitlerChimp? Don't bring your wife into this.

    Posted by: YouSoSelfDeluded at January 12, 2007 1:11 PM"

    "Oh, I see, Keith must have spurned your amorous advances. Get over it. There are plenty of 6'5" ex-sportcasters with bushy eyebrows you can go after.

    Posted by: YouSoSelfDeluded at January 12, 2007 1:52 PM"

    I made my pertinent points early in the discussion. Have you any suggestions of how else to counter charges of only Libs have a capacity for humour.

    As I said, the discussion is surreal so I leave the field defeated. But not silenced. As Chubby Hubby found many years ago to his regret in the fine print of the marriage contract, Janet is always right. :)

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    If when you criticize the government...

    You get accused of being gay...

    You can count your blessings...

    You're in the 'Good 'ole USofA'

    YouSoNotMakingAnyUsefulPoints,

    Have you taken that poll yet? I want to see if Hillary, Pelosi, Kerry, and any other Democrats agree that this is the "United States Of Iran".

    > Why don't you try refuting his points instead of the personal attacks?

    We do that every day. But sometimes it's good to get right down to Keith's level with an old-fashioned personal attack. If he can dish it out, he should be able to take it.

    The only way to debate the "unhinged" is to insult them.

    If you go back and read my posts in context, you'll see that I was attacking the message AND the messenger. Yes, I've been known to stoop to the level of my combatants. Like I said before, I thought that was customary on this site.

    I don't have any problem with someone picking apart the argument and then adding a parting shot at the person. But the later without the former indicates intellectual bankruptcy.

    If you read the context you will also see the 'amorous advances' thing is not a gay bashing comment. I would have said the same thing if the target of the site's admin was a woman. He is a man, the target of his obesession is a man. I can't change that fact. That is what it is. He was asking me why I thought he was obsessed with Keith. I provided a hypothesis. I have gay friends and straight friends, I don't consider being called gay an insult. But I do consider unrequitted affection to be pathetic, amongst heteros or homos.

    But a great job of super-sleuthing nonetheless.

    Have you taken that poll yet? I want to see if Hillary, Pelosi, Kerry, and any other Democrats agree that this is the "United States Of Iran".

    Okay, it took me awhile, but I've just completed the poll. They agree with me. They do think we've taken a step closer to Iranian style theocracy. They said they are hoping to change that in a couple've years.

    What anybody says behind closed doors means nothing. When Nancy says the "United States Of Iran" to little Wolfie Blitzer on CNN then I will be convinced.

    "YouSoNotMakingAnyUsefulPoints"

    OF course my points aren't useful to you.

    And neither is logic.

    Ah, YouSoSelfDeluded, I knew I had conferred a pet name on you, I So SelfDeluded. I just couldn't remember the context.

    Why are you so convinced that I don't arrive at my own opinions? The only time I remember anyone saying to the other side anything even suggestive that they have been spoon fed their opinions was by me.

    My sin was to say "I could ask you why you keep parrotting Dean, Reid, Pelosi etc., but I won't because I assume you arrive at your opinions as I do. Well, that resulted in an avalanche of denials and accusations against me.

    So, when the discussion tumbles into absurdity as this one did because all right thinking people KNOW that Repubs have no universal human qualities, what do you suggest?


    I'm sorry, but I consider your accusation equating me with your statement that my God is leading me to support an Iranian style theocracy with GWB as the head is below contempt. The constitutional system of tugging powers between the branches of government are alive and well.

    If you aren't happy with that your beef is with the founding fathers. They designed the system and the Legislative branch has options to thwart the Executive branch. The election gave the Dems the power to prevail. Not as quickly as the Executive, but if they don't start the process they may as well have lost the election.

    If the election mandated what many have claimed the politically expedient thing to do is to put the brakes on GWB. They haven't made any honest effort. Why? They claimed the moral and political high ground to themselves. Take it up with them.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Just a beef I have from a comment posted awhile ago. Why are conservatives always assumed to be followers of Falwell, Robertson? Grammie, I guess the new majority is waiting to hear back from Hillary after her tour maybe?

    I listened to the Gibson piece. What a hoot. It's not like Olby never did anything like splicing together comments by the President.

    I am a liberal and I don't like Bush or Cheney and I don't support them or this war. But I still think Olbermann and his defenders are totally full of shit.

    Let me help you out Rico with a little quiz. I like to call it the 'You Might be a Fascist' Quiz. Since I did your bidding with your poll, you can return the favor.

    There's only two questions, as not to strain your brain too much. Anyone else here can take the quiz as well, you might find something out about yourself you didn't know.

    Question 1: Do you think the leader of a country should form foreign policy based on discussions he has with his God: Y / N

    Question 2: Do you think A.) a US style government of checks and balances with an Executive Branch, Judicial Branch, and Congressional Branch is the way to go, or B.) Would you prefer all power to be in the hands of the leader?

    Key:

    If you answered Y and A or N and B, you might be a fascist, and are conflicted by your own views.

    If you answered Y and B, you are definitely a fascist and would feel at home within one of many of the world's theocracies including Iran.

    If you answered N and A, you are, like me, a freedom loving American who appreciates the hard work the founding fathers did in ensuring the US would not become a theocracy or dictatorship.

    I'm signing off for now, but I'll be interested in hearing your test results.

    Sorry Grammie, I haven't had time to read your post, I've got some errands to run, but when I get back I will respond.

    YouSoStillSilly,

    Just show me the results of the poll. Name by name. That's all I ask.

    As to your questions:

    1) What is a "discussion"? I'll bet every president in US history has claimed to pray before sending men into battle. I don't know that W has claimed that he and the Supreme Being had a discussion. If W claims that "the Lord" gave him instructions then I certainly would have a problem with that. My answer is "N", but with a caveat. The President is well known for his maloprops and he might use "discussion" when he meant something else entirely.

    2) Each of the three branches of the federal government has separate responsibilities and duties. The legislative branch has the power of the purse. The executive is the commander in chief. Congress can do things that the executive doesn't like(like calling hearings and insulting Condi Rice) and the commander in chief can order men into battle. That's the way it is. So while my answer is "A", we have "A". You just don't like how it is playing out.

    KAF:

    So here you are regularly posting on this site....calling yourself a 'Liberal' who hates Olbermann, but also claiming to dislike Bush and Cheney, along with their damned war.

    Then, instead of just leaving it at that, you also go out of you're way to insult all of us who have the audacity to defend Olbermann against the bashing that regularly goes on at this site....by calling us constipated, to put it a little nicer than you did.

    I get it....you spend lots of you're own valuable time posting on this site because you are on your own personal little public service crusade to clean up all TV journalism....and you thought you would start with Olbermann?

    Sharon, I'm ready to chat with a nice person like you. You and your husband sure have a full plate. And you still maintain an open and pleasant persona.

    Having thought about your scedule and your pleasure in adult conversation you may have come to the wrong site. :)

    I'll tell you the thing that drives me crazy. I am assumed to be a fundy, talking in tongues snake handling Christonazi. I'm sure there are believers of every stripe in the world. However much any of that influences anyone does not de facto invalidate their opinions on anything, much less everything. Humanist, Catholic, Islamist, Fundamentalist etc is all part of the larger aspect we bring with us.

    If only the nuns who worked so hard to educate me and prayed so diligently for my barren soul knew how religious I have become. I know that even with 13 years they came close to despair about me.

    I start at a different point and wind up at the same place sometimes with people of faith. And that means absolutely nothing.

    I simply don't understand the mindset. It seems to manifest itself as the most strident closed minded group around.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    It is pretty pathetic that News Corp. doesn't allow the words "Keith Olbermann" on their networks, but they often attempt to respond to him.

    I SoSelfDeluded, is your apparently self styled conviction that GWB has personal conversations with God not strike you as a bit over the top. Do you base your opposition to his policies solely on that? Or, are you flailing around looking for every paranoic reason to bolster your opinion in hopes that one will be the last straw to con a few supporters to your side.

    That is not sophisticated and serious, it is simplistic and juvenile.

    Debate the issues. Our Founding Fathers rejected religious tests as fitness to serve. It cuts both ways. Do you have the same contempt for some our most esteemed presidents from the past because they expressed a belief in God, or just GWB.

    President Lincoln

    "With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan..."
    --From the March 4, 1865 Inaugural Address"

    "Neither let us be slandered from our duty by false accusations against us, nor frightened from it by menaces of destruction to the Government nor of dungeons to ourselves. LET US HAVE FAITH THAT RIGHT MAKES MIGHT, AND IN THAT FAITH, LET US, TO THE END, DARE TO DO OUR DUTY AS WE UNDERSTAND IT."
    --From the February 27, 1860 Cooper Union Address"

    "I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom."
    --From the Nov. 21, 1864 Letter to Lydia Bixby"

    If President Lincoln is too old fashioned for your taste, from President Franklin Roosevelt

    " My Fellow Americans:

    Last night, when I spoke with you about the fall of Rome, I knew at that moment that troops of the United States and our Allies were crossing the Channel in another and greater operation. It has come to pass with success thus far.

    And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer:

    Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity.

    Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith.

    They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph.

    They will be sore tried, by night and by day, without rest -- until the victory is won. The darkness will be rent by noise and flame. Men's souls will be shaken with the violences of war.

    For these men are lately drawn from the ways of peace. They fight not for the lust of conquest. They fight to end conquest. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise, and tolerance and goodwill among all Thy people. They yearn but for the end of battle, for their return to the haven of home.

    Some will never return. Embrace these, Father, and receive them, Thy heroic servants, into Thy kingdom.

    And for us at home -- fathers, mothers, children, wives, sisters, and brothers of brave men overseas, whose thoughts and prayers are ever with them -- help us, Almighty God, to rededicate ourselves in renewed faith in Thee in this hour of great sacrifice.

    Many people have urged that I call the nation into a single day of special prayer. But because the road is long and the desire is great, I ask that our people devote themselves in a continuance of prayer. As we rise to each new day, and again when each day is spent, let words of prayer be on our lips, invoking Thy help to our efforts.

    Give us strength, too -- strength in our daily tasks, to redouble the contributions we make in the physical and the material support of our armed forces.

    And let our hearts be stout, to wait out the long travail, to bear sorrows that may come, to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be.

    And, O Lord, give us faith. Give us faith in Thee; faith in our sons; faith in each other; faith in our united crusade. Let not the keeness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment -- let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose.

    With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy. Help us to conquer the apostles of greed and racial arrogances. Lead us to the saving of our country, and with our sister nations into a world unity that will spell a sure peace -- a peace invulnerable to the schemings of unworthy men. And a peace that will let all of men live in freedom, reaping the just rewards of their honest toil.

    Thy will be done, Almighty God.

    Amen.

    Franklin D. Roosevelt - June 6, 1944"

    Should we go back and reassign their place in history to one step above GWB because they publicly used religious sentiments to inspire Americans and by implication share their personal faith.

    Anyone who can invoke God in such a personal way to the American people is surely disqualified.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Anyone who can invoke God in such a personal way to the American people is surely disqualified."

    I can't speak for him, but I can speak for myself...and I would like to invoke the words of Barry Goldwater (yes, *that* Barry Goldwater):

    “I don’t have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell, Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a detriment to the country.”

    “By maintaining the separation of church and state, the United States has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world with religious wars . . . Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed in Northem Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state?

    “The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others, unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives. . . We have succeeded for 205 years in keeping the affairs of state separate from the uncompromising idealism of religious groups and we mustn’t stop now. To retreat from that separation would violate the principles of conservatism and the values upon which the framers built this democratic republic.”

    Being religious in one's personal life and bearing is fine. But one should not confuse that with using religion as a bludgeon to force policy change.

    John Gibson's machine had its say
    Evidently Olby's quite gay
    He'll lisp "Mithter Bush"
    Then grab Musto's tush
    Blow Rocca and call it a day

    Last time I checked Mike it was a free country and I'm entitled to bash anyone I want to for any reason I want to. I think Olbermann is a fake, a fraud, a phony. I think he's a very accomplished liar who would do or say anything to promote his career and right now he's riding the liberal horse for all it's worth and if Fox News was a liberal bastion, he'd be spouting out conservative BS. I think that kind of fakery deserves to be exposed. Not that I owe you any kind of apology at all but there you go. And quite frankly if you want me to shut up or join you in your defenses of Keith you can forget it. It's NOT going to happen.

    And how are you so sure I don't bash O'Reilly on other sites? Are you psychic or something? Or just psychotic like most of Keith's fans? Never mind, don't answer that. You've certainly provided plenty of proof to that question with your posts here.

    Oh and Mike? I thought you weren't replying to my posts anymore.

    KAF:

    Oh no, please don't misunderstand!

    I was just trying to compliment you on your noble willingness to keep giving you're valuable time to help 'expose' this journalistic threat to our very existance. Some give of themselves to help fight cancer, others work to help feed the hungry, and still others help the homeless.
    But none of these endevours can begin to hold a candle to you're very own lofty cause!

    Oh, And yes, I agree....it is SO important that you also 'expose' those that disagree with you as being 'phychotic' or "full of shit", so that no one else becomes confused about who is really being 'phychotic' about a relatively insignificant TV news commentator.

    Liberals are basking in the delusion that because a war-weary America voted for a change in the mid-terms, that same America suddenly sees most Liberalism, including Keith Olbermann, as being right on the issues. Wrong. Half this country looks and listens to these people now with their noses plugged. Really. And good luck.

    You're half right Dan. It was never about Liberalism, it was about the war. Come to think of it, the war was never about Conservatism.

    Cee says: "you are supposed to stop the maniacs in the White House, aren't you?"

    You are making progress Cee....at least now you are admitting that there actually are "maniacs in the White House".

    "Should we go back and reassign their place in history to one step above GWB because they publicly used religious sentiments to inspire Americans and by implication share their personal faith.

    Anyone who can invoke God in such a personal way to the American people is surely disqualified.
    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie
    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at January 14, 2007 10:04 PM"

    Huh? Are you actually trying to claim that George Bush is sincere about all his "personal relationship with Jesus? You are one of maybe 27 people in this nation who believes that crock of bullshit.

    George Bush is a man who holds the lives of millions in his hands and what does he do? He puts the interests of big oil profits above these lives. His place in history will be a shameful one.

    FDR had a task that was thousands of time more threatening, your comparisons of GWB to FDR are repulsive. Iraq never attacked this nation. You still live in denial about this elephant in the room.

    FDR's place in history as a sincere Christian man is secure.

    GWB will go do in history as the charlatan of the charlatans. What else would you expect from a leader who came to power by hoodwinking evangelicals.

    You might as well be arguing that fat pig Jerry Farwell is a Christ-like person. Maybe Jimmy (the grease ball) Swaggart? He's a another winner. Or how about Pat Robertson, I here God talks to him over the phone these days.

    Evoking the prayers and salutations to god from great leaders from our history will do nothing to associate you or your arguement with them. Your promos on this page are all about wolves in sheep clothes. Your about as close to being a Christian as Redwolf is.

    Bible quotes and FDR quotes 'a Christian does not make'.

    Why don't you quote some great medical advice while you're ate it and then try to have us conclude you're a doctor. It would be easier to accept.

    Evil hides exactly where the bible says it does, you are in my book, a wolf in sheep clothes.

    What big teeth you have gramma!

    Mr. Bison,
    "Your about as close to being a Christian as Redwolf is.

    My Religious belifs have very little to do with my Politic. Like all ignorant Lefties you like to Cookie all on the Right. Typical Leftwing ignorance!

    Bison,
    Do you think everyone on the Right is a member of the Religious Right? As a matter of fact I can't stand them. I just hate the Internationlist Islamic loving Left even more!

    "Mr. Bison,
    "Your about as close to being a Christian as Redwolf is.

    My Religious belifs have very little to do with my Politic. Like all ignorant Lefties you like to Cookie all on the Right. Typical Leftwing ignorance!

    Posted by: Red Wolf at January 15, 2007 2:57 AM"

    You and the person going by moniker "grammie", are identical in that you both are vile in your unashamed hate mongering, while at the same time trying to pretend you stand on the moral side of life.

    There is an abject nature of non-repentance in people like you. Admit one bad thing about yourself and your house of cards caves in on you.

    Your entire facade is all tide together in the same old thing - the bible and the flag.
    You and her can make all the claims of righteousness you want, none of it will bring you redemption in the absence of repentance.

    From where I stand you and those like you - cowards - will never take a stand against that weak evil voice in your head that chants "deny deny deny"

    It is the product of a culture (evangelical) that wanted to be both worthy of God and a racist slave trader at the same. The sins of father rightfully have fallen on their sons. (if not by blood by adotion of the culture of the Klan)

    You will burn in the hell of your own creation.

    Cowards never repent, they die empty and always alone.

    Sins of the father...

    Since we're quoting presidents to further our own points of view (previous quotes by those dudes hanging out at Mt. Rushmore...perhaps they'll carve Bush's mug up there someday, but I'm not holding my breath), here are some interesting quotes.

    A few quotes down is the one I had referred to earlier about instructions from God. You can doubt he said it given the source, but alongside the rest of the quotes, which I'm sure most of us have heard with our own ears, It's seems highly probable it's true.

    "I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they see fit. That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you see fit. On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with the Lord."
    [...]
    "What we are going to do in the second term is to make sure that the grant money is available for faith communities to bid on, to make sure these faith-based offices are staffed and open. But the key thing is, is that we do have the capacity to allow faith programs to access enormous sums of social service money, which I think is important."
    --George W. Bush, January 11, 2005

    "I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it."
    --George W. Bush commenting to Texas evangelist James Robinson in the run-up to his presidential campaign

    "We share common goals and a common faith."
    --George W. Bush, addressing the Christian Coalition's "Road To Victory" convention

    "God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."
    --Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Abu Mazen quoting Bush when they met in Aqaba; reported in The Haaretz Reporter by Arnon Regular

    "I'm the Commander, see ... I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the President ... [I] don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."
    --Speaking to the National Security Council

    "I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you. Now watch this drive."
    --August 4, 2002, on violence in the Middle East... and his golf game

    "Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area."
    --Interview with Britain's ITV, as reported by the Associated Press's Ron Fournier on April 5.

    Bush promised during the presidential campaign to avoid tapping Social Security except in cases of war, recession or a national emergency.
    "Lucky me. I hit the trifecta,'' Bush told [Mitch] Daniels shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, according to the budget director.
    --Miami Herald, Nov. 29, 2001

    He [Bush] recalled the last time he was in Florida, on the morning of Sept. 11, and what went through his mind when the first plane hit New York's World Trade Center: "I used to fly myself, and I said, 'Well, there's one terrible pilot.'"
    --Associated Press, Dec. 4, 2001

    "I don't think that witchcraft is a religion. I wish the military would rethink this decision." - to ABC NEWS, June 1999, regarding Ft. Hood's decision to allow Wiccan rituals

    "I do not think witchcraft is a religion, and I do not think it is in any way appropriate for the U.S. military to promote it." - October 15, 2000

    "I urge all Texans to answer the call to serve those in need. By volunteering their time, energy or resources to helping others, adults and youngsters follow Christ's message of love and service in thought and deed. Therefore, I, George W. Bush, Governor of Texas, do hereby proclaim June 10, 2000, Jesus Day in Texas.
    "Jesus Day 2000" Proclamation

    "I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but for predecessors as well." - Jan. 29, 2001

    "Redefining the role of the United States from enablers to keep the peace to enablers to keep the peace from peacekeepers is going to be an assignment." - Jan. 14, 2001

    "The California crunch really is the result of not enough power-generating plants and then not enough power to power the power of generating plants." - Jan. 14, 2001

    "I hope the ambitious realize that they are more likely to succeed with success as opposed to failure." - Jan. 18, 2001

    "If he's—the inference is that somehow he thinks slavery is a—is a noble institution I would—I would strongly reject that assumption—that John Ashcroft is a open-minded, inclusive person." - Jan. 14, 2001

    "I am mindful of the difference between the executive branch and the legislative branch. I assured all four of these leaders that I know the difference, and that difference is they pass the laws and I execute them." - Dec. 18, 2000

    "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." - Nov. 2, 2000

    "I mean, there needs to be a wholesale effort against racial profiling, which is illiterate children." - Oct. 11, 2000

    "I do know I'm ready for the job. And, if not, that's just the way it goes." - Aug. 21, 2000

    "I will have a foreign-handed foreign policy." - Sep. 27, 2000

    "I think we ought to raise the age at which juveniles can have a gun."

    "Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream." - Oct. 18, 2000

    "The woman who knew that I had dyslexia--I never interviewed her." - Sept. 15, 2000

    "We cannot let terriers and rogue nations hold this nation hostile" - Sep. 9, 2000

    "If most of the breaks go to wealthy people it's because most of the people who pay taxes are wealthy."

    "I don't need to be subliminabable" - Sep. 12, 2000

    Grammie-I don't remember (or see) me accusing you of the things you say I accused you of. I think you are one of the more thoughtful (pick your label) Conservative, Republican, Right Winger, Olby-Basher, whatever...on this site. If there were more like you here, I might be inclined to stick around.

    I will sometimes address something you write, then address something in general about people on this site in the same post. If I am accusing SOMEONE specific of SOMETHING specific I usually am pretty clear about it.

    And, again, I am an independent. Democrats have made their share of mistakes. I realize it creates a bit of a conundrum for the right on this site when someone comes along who isn't a lib or an Olby fan, but still fervently takes issue with all the BS pouring from the NeoCons. I'm for small government, fiscal conservatism, personal liberty, and strong defense. And please don't post asking me why I have a problem with religion. I don't. I am a very spiritual person who happens to see some people's use of religion as divisive, violent, and everything in between.

    As far the powers of government go, Bush and his unprecedented number and use of 'signing statements' has been the most obvious power grab in the history of the presidency, as agreed upon by most all presidential historians of either political party.

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/10/05/bush_signings_called_effort_to_expand_power/

    I'm sure you all remember this quote:

    "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just as long as I'm the dictator..."
    --Washington, DC, Dec 18, 2000, during his first trip to Washington as President-Elect

    "Bison,
    Do you think everyone on the Right is a member of the Religious Right? As a matter of fact I can't stand them. I just hate the Internationlist Islamic loving Left even more!

    Posted by: Red Wolf at January 15, 2007 3:01 AM"

    You "hate" and you lie when you say you don't identify yourself with the religious right. Lying is so second nature to you. Just deny it and you think it's reality. One big delusion with you types.

    And then you bolster that lie with a false comparison of the "left" being the ones who love (associate) with the religious fundamentalists.

    Only an ignorant person thinks this will fly.

    Clearly the political left in this nation detests religious fundamentalists - of all kinds.

    How ironic it is that this nation's most greatest foe is religious fundamentalism (both Muslim and christian) and our president turns to the same people here - religious fundamentalists - to go to war against them. Ironic only that these christian fundamentalists don't even realize this.

    Iraq would never have become what it is today if the culture of the klan was not so adept at spawning vermin like Tom Delay (Texas) and Bill Frist (Tennessee).

    Like I said, yall will burn in the hell of your own making.

    I see no difference between Jerry Falwell and Osama Bin Laden except for the fact that Falwell is a bigger coward than Bin Laden is. And oh, of course Falwell is a hell of lot fatter. That guy is a greasy pig! But hey, he says loves Jesus so he's going to heaven right? Ask Bin Laden and guess what? He believes the same delusion Jerry Fatwell does.

    The difference between you and Red, is that I parents that taught me that a belief in God is all about fighting the demons within and your parents taught you that your demons were in other people.

    Your a product of your culture - hate and ignorance. Hate for other people and ignorance that hate originates in you - not them!

    You a lost cause, you are burning in the hell of your own creation.

    Look in the mirror, what do you see? Who do you really hate?

    Again, your inorant. The Bible has nothing to do with my ideology. In fact My Nationalistic ideology is in contrast to it. I live in the real world where turning the other cheek can get you killed. Obviously your a Leftard, I don't like Bush. He's a stooge of the Global corporations. Like a tried and true Left you Cookie cut on the Right. It's funny you grt all workrd up over Bush. Are you obsessed with. Do you jerk off to his picture?

    Bison,
    The differnce between you and I, is that I didn't grow up in no stupid bAnglo lilly white suburb wher you can have delusions that this is a fair world. This world id full of hate and revolves around hate. Hating is the only way to survive. Try growing up in a major city and you'll see. Sorry, I didn't have a Disney Channel siver spoon in my mouth upbringing like you.
    Bye the way, The Left is allied with Al-Qaeda and Iran. That's why all the Lefties in the press are coming out and defending Iran. You guys admire Mamoud Ahmadinejad. You probably can't wait for thr next Islamic terror attack, so you can celebrate!

    Just thank God someone like is in power. Then I would do as Pinochet did. Liquidate the Left with Death Squads and shut down the Leftist media. I also would deport all Muslims and blow their ships up over the Atlantic!

    Bison,
    Here a Muslim joke for you!

    Q:What do people say at a Muslim funeral?
    A: That'll be me tommorow!

    "Again, your inorant. The Bible has nothing to do with my ideology. In fact My Nationalistic ideology is in contrast to it. I live in the real world where turning the other cheek can get you killed. Obviously your a Leftard, I don't like Bush. He's a stooge of the Global corporations. Like a tried and true Left you Cookie cut on the Right. It's funny you grt all workrd up over Bush. Are you obsessed with. Do you jerk off to his picture?

    Posted by: Red Wolf at January 15, 2007 3:43 AM"

    Shit you think because you change the dial on the radio in that gas station you work in, from Limbaugh to Michael Savage, that all of a sudden you hate Bush and his corporate masters?

    The only force in this nation that brought an end to Tom Delay and Bill Frist is the political left working dam hard to expose the charlatans on the right.

    You play games with your constant lying. It is a common practice of social retards to see deception as a strength. It is your delusion not mine. You are what you are. A vermin spawned from a culture of white southern protestants. As for whether or not you believe in god or religion is not important. That you seek out an excuse to hate people for their race is all that matters.

    Like I said, you can try on all the skins you want. In the end, in that exact moment when you realize your life is coming to it's final breath, you will feel the same emptiness you've felt since you parents stole your god given innocence and replaced it with hate for others as a substitute for self love.

    You are an empty shell of a person. Like the Lion, the Scarecrow and the Tin-man, you seek to be human through artificial means.

    Good luck, it is a never ending quest, the yellow brick road you wander ends with you waking from your sleep - that happens when you take your last breath.

    "Bison,
    Here a Muslim joke for you!

    Q:What do people say at a Muslim funeral?
    A: That'll be me tommorow!

    Posted by: Red Wolf at January 15, 2007 3:59 AM"

    So is this kind of talk supposed to make you look intelligent? I think you revert to these kinds of posts as a way to demonstrate that my analysis of you is ineffectual.

    "Your words won't change me"

    This is what you fear I am thinking, you fear I have you pegged, I know you - perhaps in the way that you thought only you knew. That being that you are an ignorant coward that spews hate like a frightened cat hissing and raising the hair on it's back.

    Like I said, the sins of the father. Seek an excuse to attack others so you can put off confronting your own weaknesses.

    This is what keeps you weak and keeps you an ignorant coward. Always confronting demons who live in the exterior - too much the coward to address the ones within!

    I SoSelfDeluded, to get one thing off the table if anyone suggested replacing Mrs. Malaprop with President Bushaprop I have no problem conceding the point. Many of the quotes I remember and GWB's meaning isn't that hard to discern.

    So, here goes with the rest.

    "I fully understand they could try to stop me from doing it. But I've made my decision. And we're going forward," Bush told CBS' "60 Minutes" in an interview to air Sunday night."

    Congress has the right to limit his actions and until they do GWB has the right to continue implementing his policy.
    ----------------------
    "Vice President Dick Cheney asserted that lawmakers' criticism will not influence Bush's plans and he dismissed any effort to "run a war by committee."

    ...a war by committee.

    ...a government by committee."

    Your objection is? Congressional criticism has no constitutional authority, action does. VP Cheney made a valid point. Are you suggesting a precedent that committees, and which committees, should have their opinions granted equal weight to the powers of the CIC? Don't forget the next president may have ideas you like.
    -----------------------

    "The decider don't do committees. 'Committees' haven't been to kind to this president, so heck with committees."

    See above. I thought the complaint was that the Repub congress gave GWB a free ride. Who is this 'decider' you're bringing up.
    -----------------------

    "Eveyone knows that governments are best ran by the singular vision of a small cabal of deeply religious people who follow orders from God."

    Welcome to the United States of Iran."

    A hyperbolic statement that is offensive and beneath contempt. Especially in light of the following statement by you:
    ----------------------

    "And please don't post asking me why I have a problem with religion. I don't. I am a very spiritual person who happens to see some people's use of religion as divisive, violent, and everything in between."

    I won't accuse you of having a problem with religion. It is obvious from your quotes you only have a problem with some religions. Hopefully you have at least as much of a problem with radical Islam as you do with those cabal forming American religions. BTW, what are those religions you fear have dragged us to be the U S of Iran. They must be horrendus to top Islamofascists flying planes into iconic American buildings, cutting heads off, indicriminately blowing up women, infants and children etc.
    ----------------------------

    "Question 1: Do you think the leader of a country should form foreign policy based on discussions he has with his God: Y / N

    Question 2: Do you think A.) a US style government of checks and balances with an Executive Branch, Judicial Branch, and Congressional Branch is the way to go, or B.) Would you prefer all power to be in the hands of the leader?

    Key:

    If you answered Y and A or N and B, you might be a fascist, and are conflicted by your own views.

    If you answered Y and B, you are definitely a fascist and would feel at home within one of many of the world's theocracies including Iran.

    If you answered N and A, you are, like me, a freedom loving American who appreciates the hard work the founding fathers did in ensuring the US would not become a theocracy or dictatorship."

    Both questions are a crock and that is your basis for implying those who disagree with you are fascists. I suspect you know it. GWB has spoken of his faith and how it sustains him. And the feeling that God has chosen someone with overwhelming responsibilities is not uncommon. If you honestly believe that GWB is delusionly chatting with God and gets orders from him just please let me know.
    ---------------------

    "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just as long as I'm the dictator..."
    --Washington, DC, Dec 18, 2000, during his first trip to Washington as President-Elect"

    Since all this started with a debate on humour I think this is apropos to end with.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "This is what keeps you weak and keeps you an ignorant coward. Always confronting demons who live in the exterior - too much the coward to address the ones within!"


    You must write your posts in your sleep.

    Otherwise, the above statement would be too ironic and unaware... even for you.

    "If you honestly believe that GWB is delusionly chatting with God and gets orders from him just please let me know."


    It depends on what day it is for our Bush-critic friends.

    Monday, Wednesday, Sunday, Bush is a religious fanatic.

    Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, he's an elitist country-clubbing con-artist, playing to the religous right while making fun of them with Karl Rove.

    I thought I heard the dulcet tones of Coward.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    And I heard Hilary passes on to GWB what Eleanor says to her on a day to day basis.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    The lack of religious and historical understanding of secular leftists continues to amaze.....

    Comic Book Store Guy (Buffalo) comes out in the darkness to pronounce all "evangelicals" evil.

    I just find it so funny (ironic) that not once has this broad brush been applied to any other religious sect by a representative of the left.

    The argument of Comic Book Store guy is nothing more than ignorance trending towards religious bigotry and I will briefly show why....

    Again, I will point you to one of many examples in history....

    The people who were the most strident and ACTIVE abolitionists in the mid 19th century were Christians who believed in Christ as mankind's sole redeemer (my definiton of an Evangelical Christian).

    Please educate yourself about how the secularists at the time were behaving....What did the 19th century atheist or "humanist" have their mind on? I'll tell you right now....it was not freeing the African slaves! Please look for any examples of an abolitionist secular humanists and get back to me.

    The pro-slavery "christians" were dead wrong about the bible "condoning" slavery (as is anyone today). The error of using the bible to justify any worldy economic invention of man always ignores what Christ wants the person who seeks truth using the scriptures to examine....who rules their life? For the Christian slave owner in 1860 as well as the secular humanist of today...it was and is the self...and that idolatry always leads away from the only redeemer....Christ.

    Also...read UNCLE TOM'S CABIN to understand who really was on the African-American's side in the struggle for freedom and equality. It was the Evangelical Christian who TRULY has Christ as Lord of their life....NOT themselves. Again, please show me ONE example from history of a secular humanist who was an abolitionist.

    I had this debate with OZ (Colbert) about 3 months ago and I am sure the hosts of this site do not want me to use their space again to provide the research needed to understand that TRUE Evangelical Christianity has had a great POSITIVE influence on the world. I had a parade that got up to about 20 people who were Evangelical Christians and abolitionists....the self proclaimed secular humanist, OZ (Colbert) relented, stopped posting and did not have one fellow pronounced atheist example ready for rebuttal.

    One last question.....Who said this:
    "At some future period not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time, anthropomorphous apes...will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even then the Caucasian, and some ape or low as baboon, instead of as now between the Negro or Australian and the gorilla."

    or this:

    "No rational man, cognizant of the facts, believes that the average Negro is the equal, still less the superior, of the white man. And if this be true, it is simply incredible that, when all his disabilities are removed, and our prognathus relative has a fair field and no favour, as well as no oppressor, he will be able to compete successfully with his bigger-brained and smaller jawed rival, in a contest which is to be carried out on by thoughts and not by bites"

    ?

    hint: These were not 19th century Evangelical Christians.

    Mike, I find it amusing and somewhat amazing that you think you know me and who I am as a person in my real live away from this board. Do you know what I do for a living? Do you know what charities I devote my time to? Do you know for a fact what websites I post on and what I say there? Suddenly you're psychic, furthermore, you seem to have appointed yourself fit to judge me based on very limited information about me and all becuase I won't join you in defending Keith?

    I'd say that it's your own self-congratulatory personality that makes you think you are doing some sort of service for the world by spending hours and hours of your time here on Owatch defending Keith, you're here far more that I am and seem to spend an enormous amount of time here. Unlike you apparently, I have a job and a real life that demands my attention. Anyway, I'd just like to know if you can explain why it is that you would expend so much effort defending a man who won't even admit he's a liberal? You attack me, when I admit I am a liberal, but you won't call Keith on why it is that he won't admit he's one and spend hours of your life defending him here. Even his most ardent defender here at Owatch would conceed that Keith is biased (but those biases are "okay" because he's on "our" side), and that he is a liberal given his rants on air etc., yet Keith won't cop to it.

    So why is he ashamed of being a liberal? I find it so odd that all of you are so fierce in your defenses of him and never question why it is that he doesn't want to claim any part of being one of you. In every single interview he gives, Keith proclaims from the top of his lungs how he is NOT a liberal, is not a Democrat, etc., So why would he not want to admit what he is and why would you expend so much effort on behalf of someone who doesn't even remotely want to be considered one of you?

    Since Mike is given to great leaps of logic, why is it that Mike hasn't put it together, based on far greater evidence that he has about me, that Keith is being totally honest (being a man of truth, honor, and integrity and all) that he really means what he says and he's NOT a liberal and he's playing you all and using this Bush-bashing solely for ratings gains? I don't know how much plainer Keith could be about it in interviews yet no one is demanding accountability for the apparent disconnect between what Keith says in those interviews and what he says on air. Why is he ashamed to admit what he is?

    And you want to know why I won't support someone who would so coldly and calucltingly use his audience to boost his career? I'm just surprised he's not up for a Golden Globe tonight for his fine work as a t.v. actor.

    Olberman, you have lost your f---ing mind, you limp wrsited, fist raping traitorous prick. You would love nothing more than to see Bush fail in this war on terror for your own homoerotic gain. f--- YOU and the person that made YOU!

    KAF:

    No KAF, lordy me, why do you keep missunderstanding?

    I'm just expressing my great admiration for a fine, upstanding 'Liberal' such as yourself....giving so much of yourself in order to 'expose' this evil Keith who threatens both Liberals and Conservatives alike, just like a mole living within us.

    Pray tell...SOMEBODY has to do it!

    Now excuse me, while you have your 'job' and "real life" to run off to, I have my business to run!

    Oh look how so very angry OlbyTard is at that evil Keith!

    He's so mad he could just spit....and he's even pissed at Olby's parents too.

    Now THATS mad!

    hint: These were not 19th century Evangelical Christians.

    Posted by: cee at January 15, 2007 6:48 AM

    Who??

    Quote #1.....Charles Darwin

    Quote #2.....Thomas Huxley

    Two lefties that I am sure many are proud of...

    Wait...I got more!

    Another great quote, a recent addition to the brilliant secularists hall of fame.....

    "[Saddam Hussein’s] mind would have been a unique resource for historical, political and psychological research: a resource that is now forever unavailable to scholars... [I]n a small way his execution represents a wanton and vandalistic destruction of important research data."

    Richard Dawkins 1/2007

    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-dawkins4jan04,0,5577883.story

    Wow....the secular left is just sosmart...I am in awe!...I guess us right wingers are just too filled with blood lust to see the benefits of this credible scientific research!

    I wonder if Olbermann will make fun of Dawkins in WPITW?.....

    KAF writes: "I'd just like to know if you can explain why it is that you would expend so much effort defending a man who won't even admit he's a liberal?"


    Because nothing expresses your bonafides among liberals, like saying that you aren't THAT liberal.

    or if you are the Clintons or John Kerry or Al Gore...saying you don't support gay marriage when Mike knows you really do...

    or if you're our Democratic leaders, sayiing you don't want to defund Iraq when Mike and Ensign Expendable knows you really do...

    Because you have to do these things...otherwise evil rightwingers will tear you apart by making it look like you don't support the things you really don't support...

    Don't ask me, KAF... they're your peeps.

    Will Keith Olbermann have yet another insightful Special Comment on this great quote from The President last night on 60 MINUTES?...

    "It's my responsibility to put forward the plan that I think will succeed. I believe if [The Congress] starts trying to cut off funds, they better explain to the American people and the soldiers why their plan will succeed."

    Like Cecelia just said:

    It must be really truly wonderfull to be a Conservative with so much deep seeded insight, that you can virtually peer into the very heart and soul of the opposition. I wish I could do that!

    Like, for example, it's SO uncanny how you just KNOW that a 'Liberal' is really lying when they claim to be against the same thing you happen to be against. After all, you just know that 'Liberals' are wrong about everything while 'Conservatives' are right about everything.

    This comes from being SO smart that you can look right through all of you're opposition's arguments and motives....you know, kind of like being able to think with "half my brain tied behind my back, just to make it fair"!

    You know Cee, I'd much rather your Dear Leader explain to the American People why he placed so many fine young American soldiers into harm's way with no coherant reason in the first place.

    After he does that, I want to hear what he is going to say INDIVIDUALLY to the family of every new soldier he gets killed....if his new 'plan' doesn't work. You know, the 'plan' that virtually every credible expert believes has a very slim chance of actually succeeding!

    I mean, he IS going to do that, isn't he? He IS going to take the time to personally go to every one of those families and tell them why he thought this plan was worth the lives of their loved ones.

    He IS going to do that, isn't he?

    No, he isn't.

    Just like I am sure FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Bush Sr. and Clinton did not explain their policies in their adversary's terms despite the fact many people disagreed with their use of force as part of US foreign policy.

    Mike, the simple fact remains, Bush believes deeply in achieving stability in Iraq that keeps a radical enitity from essentially waltzing in gaining an entire country of millions of people.

    You and many others disagree....so the bottom line is....do something to stop Bush and begin a different policy.

    This continued demogogery is all well and good, but it is foolish to believe that it will change anything on the ground in Iraq.

    The left keeps trying to make Bush be 1972 Nixon.....but he is really 1965 LBJ....There is NO political reason to backdown from a cause he deeply believes in and believes will work.

    This is reality and The Congress can act in many ways to curtail his policy.

    Mike writes "Like, for example, it's SO uncanny how you just KNOW that a 'Liberal' is really lying when they claim to be against the same thing you happen to be against. After all, you just know that 'Liberals' are wrong about everything while 'Conservatives' are right about everything!"

    Or when you think libs are lying about being liberal when they are NOT running for office and still claim to be against the thing another lib is for?

    I don't know, Mike. Ask KAF. You're his peep.

    Oh, and Mike....if you needed anymore evidence that the administration will not roll over just because they are insulted or critisized by the left, then read what Cheney told Olbermann's "Monkey" yesterday:


    "WALLACE: Does Congress have any control over how you and the president conduct this war?

    "CHENEY: Well, Congress certainly has a significant role to play here. They have clearly been instrumental and a major player, in terms of appropriating the funds to support the force and the activities in the global conflict as well as our operations in Iraq.

    "We talk to the Congress a lot. We consulted with over 120 members of Congress before the president made his pronouncement.

    "We agreed to set up an advisory group, if you will, that draws on the chairman and ranking members of the key committees of the House and Senate, as we go forward.

    "So Congress clearly has a role to play. It's an important...

    "WALLACE: But that's a consultative role. The question I'm asking...

    "CHENEY: It is a consultative role.

    "WALLACE: ... though, is, if they want to stop it, can they?

    "CHENEY: The president is the commander in chief. He's the one who has to make these tough decisions. He's the guy who's got to decide how to use the force and where to deploy the force.

    "And the Congress, obviously, has to support the effort through the power of the purse. So they've got a role to play, and we certainly recognize that.

    "But you also — you cannot run a war by committee, you know. The Constitution is very clear that the president is, in fact, under Article 2, the commander in chief.

    "WALLACE: So let me ask you a couple of specific questions. If Congress passes a resolution opposing increasing the troops in Iraq, will that stop you?

    "CHENEY: It would be a sense of the Congress' resolution, and we're interested in it and what Congress has to say about it. But it would not affect the president's ability to carry out his policy.

    "WALLACE: What do you say to members of Congress who may try to block your efforts, your policy in Iraq? Would they be, in effect, undercutting the troops?

    "CHENEY: Well, I think they would be.

    "But I think, more than that, Congress clearly has every right to express their opinion and to agree or disagree with administration policy, and they will. They haven't had any qualms at all about that. But there's a new element here, I think, Chris, and that is to say, the Democrats have now taken control of the House and the Senate. It's not enough for them to be critics anymore.

    "We have these meetings with members of Congress, and they all agree we can't fail; the consequences of failure would be too great. But then they end up critical of what we're trying to do, advocating withdrawal or so-called redeployment of force, but they have absolutely nothing to offer in its place.

    "I have yet to hear a coherent policy out of the Democratic side, with respect to an alternative to what the president's proposed in terms of going forward. They basically, if we were to follow their guidance — the comments, for example, that a lot of them made during the last campaign about withdrawing U.S. forces — we simply go back and revalidate the strategy that Osama bin Laden has been following from day one, that if you kill enough Americans, you can force them to quit, that we don't have the stomach for the fight. That's not an answer.

    "If, in fact, this is as critical as we all believe it is, then, if the Democrats don't like what we're proposing, it seems to me they have an obligation to put forward their proposal. And so far we haven't seen it.

    "WALLACE: Mr. Vice President, it's not just Democrats, though, who oppose the plan. This week there were a number of leading Senate Republicans who also came out against it. Let's watch.

    (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

    "SEN. NORM COLEMAN, R-MINN.: I'm not prepared, at this time, to support that.

    "SEN. DAVID VITTER, R-LA.: Too little, maybe too late.

    "SEN. CHUCK HAGEL, R-NEB.: The most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam.

    (END VIDEO CLIPS)

    "WALLACE: Aren't you losing a lot of support in your own caucus?

    "CHENEY: Well, I don't think Chuck Hagel has been with us for a long time.

    "The most dangerous blunder here would be if, in fact, we took all of that effort that's gone in to fighting the global war on terror and the great work that we have done in Pakistan and Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia and across the globe out there and saw it dissipated because the United States now decides that Iraq is too tough and we're going to pack it in and go home. And we leave high and dry those millions of people in their part of the world that have signed on in support of the U.S. or supported governments that are allied with the U.S. in this global conflict.

    "This is an existential conflict. It is the kind of conflict that's going to drive our policy and our government for the next 20 or 30 or 40 years.

    "We have to prevail, and we have to have the stomach for the fight, long term. And for us to do what Chuck Hagel, for example, suggests or to buy into that kind of analysis — it's not really analysis; it's just criticism — strikes me as absolutely the wrong thing to do.

    "These are tough decisions, but the president's made it. It's a good decision. It's a good policy. We think, on reflection, it's the best way for us to move forward to achieve our objectives..."

    ###
    I think Mr. Wallace did a great job, even though Keith Olbermann thinks he's a monkey!

    Read the rest of the transcript....the anti-Semite Olbermann can't hold a flame to the real journalist:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,243632,00.html

    Cee:

    Instead of answering my question, you chose to post an interview of a man I hope I never hear another peep out of. While Bush seems to have been misguided in a way that crosses the line into criminal incompetance, I am really convinced that Cheney truly is an evil man.

    Nothing could get to that man because he probably does completely lack a conscience and therefore, truly could care less how many deaths he has caused, or how many others he has ruined.

    You keep rubbing in our face how 'strong' these evil and misguided men are. History is full of the misery caused by men such as these.

    I answered your question with the first sentence....No.

    And your extreme opinion of The Vice President of The United States is based on?.....

    Because if he is so bad....why do I not see articles of impeachment being drawn up on him?

    This is more emotional rhetoric, Mike....I would suggest you read Wallace's interview and try to refute any portion of Cheney's argument.....

    I just had to repost your own words regarding Cheney, Mike....

    "completely lack a conscience and therefore, truly could care less how many deaths he has caused, or how many others he has ruined."

    Wow, that's tough!

    BTW, I answered your question in my 12:34 PM
    post.

    You keep rubbing in our face how 'strong' these evil and misguided men are. History is full of the misery caused by men such as these.

    Posted by: Mike at January 15, 2007 1:08 PM

    With that outlook how does anyone not rate the same review, if they voted for the war in iraq or have now refused or make excuses not to do everything within their power to try to stop it, whether real or symbolic?

    Pussy liberals like "mikey" see strength as evil. poor mikey.

    Cecelia:

    Trust me, I'm NOT making any excuses for the weak kneed Democrats paying lip service to their opposition, but refusing to exercise their full Constituional powers to try to stop this madness.

    That said, assigning equal blame to those that simply went along with a travesty as those that created the travesty is a cop out.

    LOL! Gosh Roger Ebert, you call me a 'pussy' for not wanting to see American Soldiers die for no reason.

    So tell me tough guy, what are YOU personally doing for the war effort? Are YOU putting yourself in harms way, or are you just sitting back and cheering on the truly brave people that are? Yeah, that's REAL brave of you!

    Now that we've covered you, Tell me where Cheney ever put his limp ass in harm's way to defend his country.

    Yeah tough guy, and I actually DID serve my country in the Military during a time of war (Vietnam).

    It's just so damned laughable the way these armchair heros keep throwing around meaningless street words like 'pussy' when they are doing nothing themselves to further their cause.

    Grammie, (just catching up from yesterday),

    Thanks for your kind words! I really can only comment in spurts. I don't let the commenters on this site bother me. I have the true faith and it gets me through all. (I am surprised Johnny Dollar doesn't just shut this site down, given the off subject tangents argued here of which I am extremely guilty).

    I will never be able to explain my position concerning the war clearly to those who attack, either friendly or not so friendly. Maybe I should have been against the war initially given the stance of Pope John Paul (who never outright condemned it). I wasn't a full fledged supporter but mostly just one of the many who trusted in the decision because of so little dissent. I believed that Saddam Was a threat. I still believe that the War on Terror is justified and that President Bush did not act for his own self interests. I don't have a history degree and only became interested in politics in my late 20's. I can't make the sophisticated comments that others do but I can, and will, give my own point of view, which right now is the majority are behaving no differently than usual! How will my position affect 2008?

    Pope John Paul II stated that all measures should be exhausted before engaging in war. Whether this war is a just war as defined by the Catholic faith is a matter of debate and one of conscience. (It is not a matter of faith and morals that must be believed by a Catholic, ie., that Jesus is both human and divine, life begins at conception, ...) But my point has always been that once the war started, I threw my support behind winning. (winning, victory, are terms that draw immediate fire but I have no other way to state it. ) I really don't care if others insult me. I did feel that last week, one individual was becoming a little too threatening. But considering that it was 2:30 a.m., I realized I was just too tired.

    Olbermann has been exposed so many times here that it is laughable. Just last week Johnny posted a clip from the radio show with Olby stating outright lies about Geraldo's blog. I didn't see anyone else respond after I did. That is an example of a pathological liar. What Olby said the blog said was not even close, giving him even unreasonable slack!

    Cee:

    You want me to go back and 'refute' Mr. Evil's rhetoric, when I've already done so many, many times on this very blog.

    First off I don't accept at face value the "dire consequences" of 'failure' talking point they keep throwing at us as fact. The same people making THIS prediction are batting .000 so far, so why would we expect them to make a 'hit' this time at bat?

    Iraq is probably going to end up being a Shiite based, non-democratic theocracy no matter whether we leave, stay, or do something in between.

    Is this a bad joke? Um, even America's leading Conservatives have turned against Bush. Herr Olobermann? Really, the Cold War is over people, and this narrow-minded conservative McCarhtyist revivalism is what gives Republicans and Conservatives va bad name. I'm no card-carrying Liberal, but allow me to say that at least Olbermann is making sense where Mr. Bush is not. At least Olbermann is going out on a limb to express his well-researched ideals. Bush hasn't researched anything since he had to buy the keg for his last frat party. Olbermann is utilizing the rights that Bush is slowly eroding. Can't handle it? Make a better argument instead of bringing out the stupid, anachronistic "Commie Pinko" slurs. Brav eis telling the truth in a time of extreme lies. Brave is telling soldiers that we respect their choice to serve but that we really wish they didn';t have to, especially when the mission is unclear. Pull your propaganda-lapping "Republican" tongues back in your mouths until you have something smart to say. And don't insult those of us who became Republicans because we respect the Constitution that Bush has recklessly and needlessly put in peril.

    Sharon:

    I want you to know, that as a war critic from the beginning, I respect you're position and the way you have articulated it. You're position is probably fairly close, if not slightly to the right, of the majority of the American people today.

    That said, the late night personal attacks on you and others were uncalled for. I read all of that with dismay but did not feel I could say anything to cool things down, so I didn't. Please don't let the 'firebrands' on this site discourage you.

    I do ask that you think about the recent history of this conflict as you consider you're position. The dire predictions that are being made right now concerning what will happen if we 'fail', accept 'defeat', etc., etc. are just that....more predictions. Predictions from these same people have only gotten us into the state we are in today!

    Ok, all american...(if your are a Republican who really cares about our country)...you really believe Bush has put The Constitution, "in peril?" How so?

    Please be specific...claims my Bush to exercise the enumerated powers of the executive and signing statements are weak arguments....they do not put the law in peril because Bush is gone in 2 years or The Judiciary can limit him or The Congress can act.....I want a real life example...not demogoguery

    Mike, you state an emotion laden assumption as indisputable fact. Bush is at best imcompetent, at worse a criminally evil incompetent who probably is mentally unstable. Cheney is pure maniacal murderous self serving evil. By extension everyone associated with Bush et al at a high level share some or all of these despicable traits. I've been reading your comments for months and I may have left some evil aspect out, but I'm certain I haven't overstated the case you make.

    They are so flawed because of what they have done and they have done it because they are so flawed. Circular reasoning at its finest.

    You and virtually everyone else here allied with you can barely construct a sentence without standing Ocam's razor on edge based on emotional judgments and assumptions. I aree that history has dozens of truly evil and probably also mentally diseased powerful men who blanketed their worlds with overwhelming death, destruction and suffering. Herod, Caligua, Nero, Attila the Hun, Ghengis Khan, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Heydrich, Pol Pot, Kim Jung Il, Hussein, UBL to name a few.

    This does not strike you as so obsessively over the top as to border on deranged. And what does that say to you about your fellow citizens who support the War on Terror, including the necessity to win the Battle of Iraq.

    I've seen both you and EE respond to the type of charges flung around here with why are you saying that about me, I agree with you. Not, no matter where I stand you shouldn't make accusations like that to anyone. It hasn't made you a bit queasy to be so viciously attacked based on a knee jerk reaction that if you don't buy into their 'truth' you are a lying brain dead evil fool? I guess not.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Janet:

    You cannot detach emotion from war, or war from emotion....thus my 'emotional' approach to the subject. The 'emotional' impact on the American people, and the world should have been considered from the very outset.

    Trust me, all of my reactions are far from "knee jerk". I'm sorry you see my arguments as 'circular' because to me, they run just as straight as any arrow. My personal anger over this runs very, very deep, and I know I speak for many others regarding this.

    Now, About some of my much earlier "why are you saying this about me" responses, all I can say to that is that I haven't been doing this very long, and I've learned a few lessons along the way. For example, there was one regular on here who seemed to do nothing whatsoever but wait for an opportunity to take another snipe at me. I have found that reacting defensively to that kind of crap is counterproductive.

    Cheney says you can't run a war by committee. Last time I checked, Congress was NOT a committee...they were an EQUAL branch of government and to dismiss them as a bunch of naysayers who don't get much of a say is exactly the problem with the "unitary executive theory" that Cheney loves so much.

    Bush goes on the radio and the television and tells his opponents that if they don't like his plan, come up with an alternative. We have - the Murtha Plan, the Biden Plan, the Iraq Study Group Plan...there are plenty of plans. They just don't let Bush be the "great leader" and would force him to admit that Iraq is not going to become the beacon of democracy he claims it can be.

    And Chris Wallace is a monkey - in the sense that he dances to whatever tune his bosses at FOX News tell him to dance to. That's not anti-Semitism, it is a CRITICISM of his lack of independence from the people who sign his paychecks.

    Hear hear! Mike, you GO!

    Interesting that Boxer's critics don't, to a person, have 'any skin in it'.

    Interesting also that all the suckers who vote GOP on this board who, before the elections, said there was no concieveable way both houses would go Dem are now saying there's no possibility Cheney or Bush (or both) will get impeached.

    Guess again, jerkoffs.

    I'm not being cute on purpose, EE.....but as a Star Wars fan, the first paragaph of your post made me chuckle.....

    From STAR WARS Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back.....

    As the crew runs fearfully into the MILLENIUM FALCON in a desperate attempt to escape THE SPACE SLUG.......

    HAN SOLO: No time to discuss this as a committee.

    PRINCESS LEIA: I am not a committee!


    EE, read the transcript of Wallace's interview....he posed very tough, probative questions to Dick Cheney....followed up on Cheney's opinions and even put the opposition's side to him IN THEIR OWN WORDS......

    And a bonus.....Wallace didn't hand The VP a donation for THE NRA's "Fire Arms Safety Programs" at the beginning of the interview!....

    ...Right Keith?

    I'll repeat....from the record....my only three preditions I made prior to November were....

    Joe Lieberman would be re-elected

    My own very conservative, pro-life Republican would also be re-elected

    and

    The NY Giants would win the NFC EAST....

    Two out of three ain't bad.....but broadsword, I am willing to predict that Bush will be up on the podium at the swearing in of the next prez.


    Sharon, I did and still do support the goals in Iraq. Look at a map of the middle east. Iraq is strategically located, bordering on six countries and having the second longest coast line on the Persian Gulf.

    Because of its petroleum resources the Middle East is a major player in the world's access to the most widely used energy source in the world.

    The international movement of Islamic Radicalism is dedicated to the destruction of western civilization and has a large component of death as salvation. It is always seeking nation states to control and operate from.

    If we withdraw to the safety of our comfortable world I doubt that we would have an immediate overwhelming impact to our way of life.

    Will they slow down or stop if we don't force it upon them. Of that I am certain that they won't. They will rather be emboldened and come after us harder.

    Look at it from their point of view. Their messianic view of the world compells them to overcome us and convert us. Death to themselves and their families is a glorious martyrdom, not a tragedy. Nirvanna awaits and they are not content to wait. Killing themselves while killing innocents is the ultimate in glory and grace.

    The Japanese had a similar world view in WWII and we should have learned our lesson from that. They had their equivalent of suicide bombers, tens of thousands fighting to the death on God forsaken islands in the Pacific and a civilian population ready to die for their god, Emperor Hirohito.

    I could be wrong and I realize that. But no one has convinced that I am wrong and I can only follow my own judgments.

    If the Dems prevail we will find out soon enough. And I don't just mean by being attacked. Essential resources denied us or priced so high it will effect our economy drastically and all that entails. We will be weakened actually and just as importantly perceptually to both friend and foe.

    We have a hard road in front us no matter which fork we take. All any of us can do is follow our own conscience and work to implement what we consider the right course.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "EE, read the transcript of Wallace's interview....he posed very tough, probative questions to Dick Cheney..."

    No, he didn't. He framed all the problems as IRAQI problems. It was "the U.S. is doing great, the Iraqis are screwing it up"

    Like here:

    "[W]hy not send even more troops into Iraq? And why depend on the Iraqi army and government, which have failed us again and again? Why not say, "This is a U.S. war, and we will do whatever it takes to win"?"

    and here:

    "Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki, I think it's fair to say, has disappointed us over and over again."

    and here:

    "How direct has the president been with Maliki that he can't fail us again?"

    Then he says, posing a question about opposition - "Mr. Vice President, why should we believe that, this time, you've got it right?" Cheney DODGED the question, then Wallace followed with a lame follow-up (which Cheney DODGED AGAIN) and then dropped it.

    Softball interview compared to what he's done to past guests. Clinton gets hammered, his record gone through with a fine-tooth comb and you laud Wallace for his "hard-hitting journalism". Cheney gets a nice little fluff piece interview and you call THAT "hard-hitting"? I've seen Nerf bats with more pop.

    You have a strange definition of "soft ball" EE....then again, always being the guy in the red shirt who gets killed 10 seconds after beaming down can make you somewhat cynical.


    The following example were pretty hard hitting if you ask me....

    WALLACE: But the fact is, some of these policies that you've proposed, that we talked about there, haven't worked. Why should we believe this policy will?

    WALLACE: Throughout this war, the president has said that he listens to the generals on the ground and he gives them what they want.

    But in November, General Abizaid, the commander of all U.S. forces in the Middle East, spoke before the Senate committee and said that, after meeting with every divisional commander, that sending more troops into Iraq would prevent the Iraqis from taking on the responsibility they should take. Let's take a look......(vid clip)...

    WALLACE: Mr. Vice President, why did you and the president decide to overrule the commanders?

    CHENEY: Well, I don't think we've overruled the commanders. The fact is the plan we've got here now has been embraced by Abizaid, by General Casey, by...

    WALLACE: But how do you explain what he said right then, less than two months ago?

    WALLACE: Let me ask you a specific question about that. If U.S. forces want to go into Sadr City and take on Muqtada al-Sadr, can you pledge to the American people we'll do that regardless of what Maliki says?

    CHENEY: I believe we'll be able to do whatever we need to do in order to get a handle on the security situation there, and Prime Minister Maliki will be directly involved in it.

    This is just as much his program as it is ours. He's the one, ultimately, who has to perform, in terms of the capabilities of Iraqi forces.

    So I think we do have the right understanding. Time will tell. We'll have to wait and see what happens here.

    But I do believe that, based on the conversations we've had with Prime Minister Maliki and with his senior people, direct conversations between the president and Prime Minister Maliki, commitments that we've made to him and that he's made to us, that, in fact, we do have an understanding that will allow us to go forward and get the job done.

    WALLACE: The question a lot of people ask is, "Or else?" In other words, the Iraq Study Group said if Maliki didn't live up to his promises, we would begin to cut aid, support troops. What do we do if he doesn't live up to his promises? Is there an "or else"?

    WALLACE: I want to ask you one more question about this, and then we'll talk about other issues. Iraq was a big issue in the November election. I want you to take a look at some numbers from the election. According to the National Exit Poll, 67 percent said the war was either very or extremely important to their vote, and only 17 percent supported sending in more troops.

    By taking the policy you have, haven't you, Mr. Vice President, ignored the express will of the American people in the November election?

    WALLACE: There's a report in the New York Times today that's been confirmed by administration officials that the Pentagon and the CIA have been obtaining financial records about hundreds of Americans suspected of involvement in either terrorism or espionage.

    Why involve the CIA and the Pentagon in domestic intelligence- gathering?

    CHENEY: Well, remember what these issues are. This is a question, as I understand it, of issuing national security letters that allow us to collect financial information, for example, on suspected — or, on people we have reason to suspect.

    The Defense Department gets involved because we've got hundreds of bases inside the United States that are potential terrorist targets. We've got hundreds of thousands of people, innocent Americans...

    WALLACE: But why not let the FBI do that, sir?


    CHENEY: Well, they can do a certain amount of it, and they do.

    But the Department of Defense has legitimate authority in this area. This is an authority that goes back three or four decades. It was reaffirmed in the Patriot Act that was renewed here about a year or so ago.

    It's a perfectly legitimate activity. There's nothing wrong with it or illegal. It doesn't violate people's civil rights. And if an institution that receives one of these national security letters disagrees with it, they're free to go to court to try to stop its execution.

    So, you know, this is a dramatic story, but I think it's important for people to understand here this is a legitimate security effort that's been under way for a long time, and it does not represent a new departure from the standpoint of our efforts to protect ourselves against terrorist attacks.

    WALLACE: Your former chief of staff, Scooter Libby, goes on trial this coming week on charges of obstruction of justice and perjury.

    As I mentioned to Mrs. Cheney when she was here a few weeks ago, I happened to notice that you invited Mr. Libby to your Christmas party, which you also invited me to.

    Given his legal troubles, why?

    CHENEY: Why what?

    WALLACE: Why invite him to your party?

    CHENEY: He's a friend. He's a good man. He is one of the finest individuals I've ever known. And I did invite him to the Christmas party. The last two years he's been at our Christmas party and before that...

    WALLACE: Is he honest?

    CHENEY: I believe he's one of the more honest men I know. He's a good man. And I obviously appreciate very much his service on my staff over the years and have very high regard for him and his family.

    WALLACE: Libby's lawyers say they're going to call you as a witness. And we've had presidential scholars scurrying; it appears that it may be the first time ever that a sitting vice president has testified in a criminal trial.

    Will you participate in a videotaped deposition, or will you go into court and raise your right hand?

    CHENEY: Chris, I'm not going to get into the trial. That's a matter that's before us. I have indicated from the very beginning my whole-hearted cooperation with the investigation and with whatever legal proceedings emerge out of that. And this will all unfold here in the very near future, so...

    WALLACE: Do you have any problem going into open court, sir?

    CHENEY: I'm going to leave it where it's at. I'm not going to comment on the trial itself.

    WALLACE: Given the fact that it now turns out that Libby wasn't the one who first leaked the name of Valerie Plame, what do you think of the fact that he's the only one who's being prosecuted in this case?

    CHENEY: I have strong views on the subject, but I'm not going to talk about it.

    WALLACE: Let me ask you, because your wife, when she was on — and let's put it up on the screen — said, "It's bizarre and does not reflect well on our judicial system."

    CHENEY: I'm not going to talk about it.

    WALLACE: Do you agree with your wife?

    CHENEY: I'm not going to talk about it, Chris. I have strong feelings on the subject. I am likely to be a witness in this trial. It would be inappropriate for me, at this point, shortly before the trial begins, to enter into a public dialogue with you about my views on this issue.

    WALLACE: But there's nothing that you have heard, nothing that you have read that shakes your confidence in Scooter Libby's integrity?

    CHENEY: That's correct.


    Softball interview compared to what he's done to past guests. Clinton gets hammered, his record gone through with a fine-tooth comb and you laud Wallace for his "hard-hitting journalism". Cheney gets a nice little fluff piece interview and you call THAT "hard-hitting"? I've seen Nerf bats with more pop.

    Posted by: Ensign Expendable at January 15, 2007 4:26 PM

    Maybe Wallace didn't want to be called a MONKEY again by Olbermann. We all saw what Olbermann thought of the Monkey interviewing Clinton. To truly have a fluff interview one must first present a check.

    Mike, your bottom line is:

    "You cannot detach emotion from war, or war from emotion....thus my 'emotional' approach to the subject. The 'emotional' impact on the American people, and the world should have been considered from the very outset."

    If you want to have a shot at being victorious you damn well better not use your emotions to dictate action. A statement like that implies that those who don't succumb to emotion are dangerous.

    I disagree. Your position leaves us open to the cold blooded killers and tyrants of this world. It could be satisfying and gratifying in the short term, but deadly in the long term. That cold blooded Eisenhower and FDR. If they had any feelings at all D Day would have been called off.

    Read my post again. I referred to those on your side of the aisle who had a 'knee jerk' reaction to YOU and EE because they misunderstood your comment and responded as they would to me. Big difference. BTW, just two or three nights ago, which you referenced to Sharon, you made such a comment.

    You seem to have ignored the main theme of my comment. Do you or don't you consider GWB et al as the equivalent to Herod, Caligua, Nero, Atilla, Hitler, Stalin etc. You use and seem to support by agreement and acquiescence terms that are justly applied to them.

    And what does that me in your eyes.?

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    > Softball interview compared to what he's done to past guests. Clinton gets hammered

    Yeah, he got hammered with all of One Question about UBL before he blew his stack.

    "Yeah, he got hammered with all of One Question about UBL before he blew his stack."

    I am NOT getting into this with you, Johnny. Clinton was told the interview was about his charity work - Wallace even stated IN HIS INTRO to the piece that it was supposed to be 15 minutes - half on Clinton's philanthropy, half on anything Wallace wanted.

    Wallace spent four minutes (which is not half by anyone's standard) on the Clinton Global Initiative, then almost the rest of the interview on Osama and the war on terror. The only reason Wallace went back to CGI at the very end was because Clinton forced him to.

    Janet asked: "and what does that me in you're ayes..?"

    First off, Janet, this is not about you, and it's not about me. If you want me to judge you personally solely because of you're personal opinions on this war, then we couldn't possibly be friends, could we?

    I have personal friends in 'real' life who disagree with me, knowing full well where I stand on this....yet we still remain friends. One of them is even a Conservative talk show host at a small radio station.

    That said, we just disagree.....I'm not even sure how hashing it out further could really acomplish anything. But don't try to tell me that we should take the emotional response out of war, because that sounds very, very cold to me.

    You keep trying to get me to come right out and compare this administration with some of the despots of history, yet I refuse to do that for very good reasons, even though I DO see SOME parallels. But I will keep those to myself.

    You seem to see so much merit in America trying to control an unknown future that cannot POSSIBLY be controlled OR predicted by using pre-emptive Military moves that could easily backfire....with a potential for exponentially worse unintended consequences.

    I see this Neocon philosophy as flailing about....and what has happened so far in Iraq tends to validate my own Worldview, and NOT your own.

    If we react TOO strongly in the WRONG way, just as we HAVE done in Iraq, we could very easily destroy ourselves from the inside quicker than any outside influence possibly could. This I believe very strongly, and this is who I am.

    > it was supposed to be 15 minutes - half on Clinton's philanthropy, half on anything Wallace wanted.

    I'm not going to try to educate you, because OlbyLoons seem to be particularly resistant to such. But for clear-headed readers who can appreciate the truth, Wallace was free to ask the questions in any order he wanted. He could have asked about UBL for 15 solid minutes and THEN gone to charity work if he wanted to. Or he could mix them up. He did nothing to violate the ground rules, and you'll note that even Clinton doesn't claim he did. Yet Herr Olbermann does. And that's enough for the loons.

    "I'm not going to try to educate you, because OlbyLoons seem to be particularly resistant to such."

    I thought 'educating' the 'Olbyloons' was this site's mission statement. Apparently the site's admin is growing weary of the daunting task he has carved out for himself.

    Propaganda wears thin, the truth prevails.

    Johnny Dollar said:
    "Wallace was free to ask the questions in any order he wanted. He could have asked about UBL for 15 solid minutes and THEN gone to charity work if he wanted to."

    No, from Wallace's own intro:

    "As part of the conference, Mr. Clinton agreed to his first one-on-one interview ever on "FOX News Sunday." The ground rules were simple: 15 minutes for our sit-down, split evenly between the Global Initiative and anything else we wanted to ask."

    Johnny Dollar said:
    "He did nothing to violate the ground rules, and you'll note that even Clinton doesn't claim he did."

    Yes Clinton DID - read the damn transcript, you moron!

    "CLINTON: You set this meeting up because you were going to get a lot of criticism from your viewers because Rupert Murdoch's supporting my work on climate change.

    And you came here under false pretenses and said that you'd spend half the time talking about — you said you'd spend half the time talking about what we did out there to raise $7-billion-plus in three days from 215 different commitments. And you don't care."

    Johnny:

    It really must be SO wonderfull to be so "clear headed", and have such a FIRM grasp on 'truth'.

    When you become this enlightened, you get to call all those who just will not see little derogatory names such as 'loons', etc.

    When you become this 'educated', then you are recruited to bash and malign a single admittantly flawed TV personality, day in and day out, in any and every way you possibly can.

    Yep, you become nothing more than an attack dog who constantly deludes yourself into believing that you are somehow on a 'mission' of truth, and that what you do actually has an impact.

    Some day I'm gonna grow up and be reel smart like you!

    Clinton's outburst in the middle of the interview doesn't count as proving the ground rules were violated, because the interview wasn't over yet. He may have thought they were at that point, but that's because he was too apopleptic to think. Obviously, the split of time can only be counted at the end of the interview, not in the middle. That can now never be counted, because Clinton himself extended the UBL portion, refusing to go back to charity when Wallace tried to do so.

    > 15 minutes for our sit-down, split evenly between the Global Initiative and anything else we wanted to ask."

    Tell you what. I will formally apologize to Expendable if he can document that the 15 minutes in question had to be charity first, THEN anything else. You provide a source that dictates the order of the questioning was part of the ground rules, and you're golden. Otherwise, you're just regurgitating OlbySpin. The ball's in your court.

    Notice how Mike (nor any of the other regular Olbermann defenders here) didn't answer my query on why it is that Olbermann is too ashamed to admit he's a liberal.

    And yes, Mike is demonstrating the typical liberal behavior of attacking anyone who isn't 100% in lockstep with the prevailing liberal mantras. God forbid you point out anything that is remotely negative regarding a Dem leader or hero, no matter how stupid something they've done is-Barbara Boxer anyone?

    You know what? He can call me a bad liberal all day long if he likes. I refuse to march lock step with anyone and yes, I'll keep pointing out the contradictions of EVERYONE, not just the right-wingers and if that makes me a bad liberal? I'd rather be a bad liberal than be a mindless one like Mike.

    Johnny Dollar said:
    "Clinton's outburst in the middle of the interview doesn't count as proving the ground rules were violated, because the interview wasn't over yet."

    So what, Clinton had to EXTEND the story out (and let Wallace and his buddies at FOX News run the clips ad infinitum) in order to meet your high-and-mighty requirements?

    I think a reasonable person can tell the difference between 4 minutes (the amount of time actually spent on Clinton Global Initiative) and 7 1/2 minutes (which would have been half the interview). You're just choosing to IGNORE the evidence because it doesn't suit your already-set frame of reference.

    Johnny Dollar said:
    "I will formally apologize to Expendable if he can document that the 15 minutes in question had to be charity first, THEN anything else."

    Read Wallace's intro again - unless you failed 8th grade English, when roadmapping a story you put things IN THE ORDER they are going to appear.

    "The ground rules were simple: 15 minutes for our sit-down, split evenly between the Global Initiative and anything else we wanted to ask."

    Which means - Global Initaitive First, everything else second. And then Wallace REINFORCED that when the first question was about the Clinton Global Initiative. Which means the PURPOSE of the interview (and the first story out of the gate) was to be the Clinton Global Initiative.

    Kaf, ole buddy, what you don't seem to get is that I just don't give a happy damn why "Olbermann is too ashamed to admit he's a liberal", as you so eloquently put it.

    If you'll go back and look at my posts, you will clearly see that I spend very little time 'defending' KO, because frankly you deluded little 'liberal', KO is quite capable of defending himself. I've called him 'flawed' myself', many times.

    What I have been consistantly posting against is the war. I have wasted very little time on other things...and guess what, Mr. Libral, the war is NOT a Conservative / Liberal issue. Never was, never will be. Only deluded Olby basher's seem to be confused by this point.

    Since KO spends the vast majority of his time on the war and constitutional issues, I'm not really that sure how YOU have concluded that he is "riding a liberal horse"? Maybe he has, but I just don't really recall KO taking much of a stand on issues like abortion, Socialized medicine, Gay marriage, and a host of other issues that could clearly be labeled as 'liberal'.

    And to answer an earlier post of your's, bashing KO is not the same as "refusing to defend" KO.

    So exactly what is you're obsession with this, Mr 'Liberal'?

    The Scooter Libby trial begins tomorrow.
    Hopefully we shall finally find out the truth of the Bush Administration's run up to war and how much they manipulated the intelligence.
    Also, whether Libby was covering for his boss Darth Cheney, about outting Plame.

    Be careful what you wish for, professor.....this case will also put many a journalist on the stand and potentially chill the use of anonymous sources.

    I thought everyone was for more transparent government?

    As the end of todays WaPo Libby article covers....

    "Charles Tobin, who heads the media law practice for Holland & Knight, said that the case already has had serious consequences for journalists by forcing them to reveal their sources and that it will continue to hurt newsgathering.

    "'There's certainly going to be a hesitation among sources as they see this trial unfold and watch what happens with Libby,' Tobin said. 'Will they have conversations with reporters if they think those conversations can be used to prosecute them?'"

    ###
    I wonder what the famed journalist, Edward R. Olbermann will say about this tonight?

    The Scooter Libby trial begins tomorrow.
    Hopefully we shall finally find out the truth of the Bush Administration's run up to war and how much they manipulated the intelligence.
    Also, whether Libby was covering for his boss Darth Cheney, about outting Plame.

    Posted by: Bob at January 15, 2007 7:19 PM

    The trial will hardly deal with outting Plame. The trial is about a procedural charge. Olbermann would like to say that Libby is on trial for outting Plame but that is not true. Libby was not even indicted for outting Plame and from what Nifong says you can indict just about anybody, even without evidence. Olbermann will have a great time twisting words during the trial.

    Cee: The left keeps trying to make Bush be 1972 Nixon.....but he is really 1965 LBJ....There is NO political reason to backdown from a cause he deeply believes in and believes will work.

    Oh yeah Cee, the cause ( in Vietnam) worked wonderfully under Johnson.Almost as good as Iraq has worked under Bush.

    Lapdog continues to live in his delusional world.

    Anon above: I wonder what prosecution strategy 'Nifong' is planning to use in the Libby trial?

    "I wonder what the famed journalist, Edward R. Olbermann will say about this tonight?"

    That Congress needs to get on the ball and pass a Federal Shield Law, which would allow reporters the right to refuse to reveal sources without being threatened with jail. 31 states have them - and they work because they can only be circumvented if the state can prove that the material is necessary to advance a "compelling state interest".

    The lack of such a law is what is "chilling speech", cee.

    "The trial will hardly deal with outing Plame"

    Libby is on trial for perjury and obstruction of justice under the umbrella of who in Bush's administation did out Plame.
    If you don't think it won't have any anything to do with outting Plame you're crazy.

    That will be the 10 ton elephant in the court room.

    Remember, when Bush said he'd "Deal with anyone who had anything to do with outting a spy"
    Well George, How come you haven't ?

    Just another lie by GWB.

    Sometimes I do wonder about anonymous sources.

    I don't use history to predict the future, professor....unlike you I am wise enough to know that is about as predictive as consulting astrologers....

    I use history to help interpret the present motives and thinking of people...I believe human nature does not change. LBJ and Bush are in similar situations with public opinion, however, the political ramifications were not the prime motivator then and they are pretty much not a concern for Bush currently.

    Iraq may end up just like Vietnam if the consistent radical left gets their way, professor.....read the rest of my posts regarding JFK's support of Diem in 1954 and Johnson's 1965 speech announcing the escalation of troops.....they both sound just like our current Great President....

    (I know how much you hate it when I say that!)

    Oh, and no one from your idological wasteland ever responded to my challenge about the last great national dem....JFK.....was he lying when he said all of those nice things about Diem in 1954?

    Yes, Jfk and LBJ made decisions of support in Vietnam on principle....just like Bush continues to do in Iraq.....You'd better get those Dems in line in The Congress to stop him, Professor Honeydew!

    Oh yeah....and I can't wait to see if we get another McGovern-type candidate from the left in 2008...it should be interesting.

    > Read Wallace's intro again

    I think Wallace is the best expert as to the meaning of his words, and he said there was no requirement as to the order of the questions. So where's your proof that there was? Would it surprise you to know that OTHER interviews conducted the same day also did not adhere to what you claim, without evidence, was a pre-determined order? I await your documentation.

    Why, so you can denounce it or claim it doesn't count? You seem to do that with EVERYTHING else anyone presents to challenge your worldview.

    So you can GO TO HELL, sir. FOX News played the tune, and Wallace danced along. Of course he would say AFTER THE FACT that there was no pre-determined order...classic CYA maneuver.

    When Wallace STARTS the interview with the Clinton Global Initiative, it implies that the first half of the interview would be about that. Your REFUSAL to accept the FACTS IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE shows your WILLFUL BLINDNESS.

    > it implies

    Oh, well, that convinces me. It implies. Gotta hand it to you, expendable one, you really come up with the facts to back up your spin.

    "Oh, well, that convinces me. It implies."

    *facepalm* Circumstantial evidence IS evidence, you dip. Or did you sleep through Evidence class in law school?

    I've NEVER seen an interviewer hop from subject to subject - that's piss-poor interviewing skills. We can only rely upon Wallace's acts - and his acts indicate that the CGI was to be covered FIRST.

    Ah Duh Bob!

    The trial hasn't even started yet! We give the benefit of doubt.

    This is America, not New Jersey!

    You know innocent until proven guilty.

    Look we gave that right to all the mayors down in Camden, How many Mayors in Camden got taken down for taking graft and payoffs? Four or five in a row isn't it Bob?

    Camden, A liberal mecca! The garden spot of the garden state!

    CNN,MSLSD, and the rest aren't drolling over this trial, Plane can't get a book deal. Get over it!

    Meanwhile Ashley Harder, the current Miss New Jersey U.S.A., has resigned from the pageant post because she is pregnant.

    I guess sex education doesn't work to well in New Jersey eh Bob?

    Also in New Jersey

    Jon Corzine who Bob voted for twice gave the state of the state address this year.

    Corzine repeated his promise, made during his election campaign and again in his first State of the State speech a year ago, to provide beleaguered Garden Staters with relief from their sky-high property taxes.

    But this year as in last Corzine said he'll veto any tax-relief plan that can't be funded for years to come. Huh?

    But Bob, will Corzine enact a billion dollar tax hike like he did last year?

    Will he reject proposals to whack away at state spending, like he did last year Bob?

    Gee, in Bob's world it's okay for Jon Corzine to lie. But a trial hasn't started yet, and Bob says GWB has lied. What phone psychic did you consult? Did she say when the Karl Rove indicments would come in, we've been waiting about two years for them.

    I know, I know, Truthout said any day now.


    Bob you just sit in front of you're t.v., drink your kool-aid, eat some $3.15 an hour Del-Monte Pineapple and lick you're chops in the hopes that Scooter Libby and the whole Republican party go's down.

    And Bob, maybe you might get that property tax cut from Corzine too!

    Don't hold your breath!


    "If you don't think it won't have any anything to do with outting Plame you're crazy. That will be the 10 ton elephant in the court room"

    No, Bob, the 10 ton elephant in the room will be the lies that Joe Wilson has told regarding this whole episode. Did you see how mightily Joe has tried to get out of testifying?

    And in typical fashion, Orange Boy has propped up this unctuous liar, because Olby is one himself.

    Olby Tard,
    I am 62 years old and I'm amazed with the obtuseness of some of the people here who still defend this president, an abuser of power and an insane man. Olbermann gets it- he's a smart man.
    You shouldn't have to be a liberal to get it. You just have to be able to think critically, OT.

    And dear Hank be honest about who has lied to the American people. The Plame affair underscores to what lengths this administration would go to cover up their mendacity regarding this shameful war.

    Almost all of you are morons. It is really sad that people from the same country can be so blinded by their party loyalties to this extent. "There are no conservative comedians, whaaaaaah, because conservatives have no perception of reality, whaaaah!" I mean come on. This is so stupid. Is that really supposed to be an insult? I'm not trying to sound like a know it all, but this is seriously pathetic. Also, if many of you people would use half the energy used in your hatred toward the president of the US and hatred towards people like Keith Olbermann, and applied it to something worthwhile, than you could get a lot accomplished, rather than just pissing each other off in a blog.