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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    January 12, 2007
    Olbypocrisy - Example CXVIII

    The infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann slants the news, censors stories that don't agree with his spin, keeps opposing views off his show, and makes up nonexistent facts out of thin air. None of this is news to the clear-headed readers of this site. The same can be said of the pervasive, rank hypocrisy that oozes from every pore of the discredited sports guy, as he has proven once again.

    MADMAN

    Case in point: Laura Bush gave an interview to people magazine, and was asked about a possible Presidential run by Condoleeza Rice. The first lady doubted that Condi would run:

    probably because she is single, her parents are no longer living, she's an only child. You need a very supportive family and supportive friends to have this job.

    This was the opening Herr Olbermann needed to attack Laura Bush. On The Hour of Spin for Dec 15, that interview was one of the top stories of the day: it was in the opening spiel, and took up an entire segment of the show. And Krazy Keith was in rare form, as he talked with Margaret Carlson:

    Why Laura Bush thinks Condoleezza Rice won't run for president. It is a reason that is certain to infuriate about half the adult population, the unmarried half....

    The answer is simple, she has not got a man. You'll forgive me if I don't do the whole finger-snap neck-move thing....

    And who would know better that Rice has a lack of supportive friends than her supportive friend, Mrs. Bush?...

    This is almost inscrutable. Is she intending to compliment the secretary of state here, or is she actually taking a big bite out of her leg?...

    Not to get overly psychoanalytical on it, but another question on that area. Is there something--could there something--be something in here of the revenge of the real wife against the office wife?...

    This story, to some degree, seems to have flown under everybody's radar....

    That is how Keith Olbermann spins when he sees a chance to smear Laura Bush. But what happens when the shoe is on the other foot?

    During yesterday's testimony by Sec Rice, there was a remarkable exchange with Barbara Boxer (D). The California Senator ridiculed Condi Rice's expressions of concern over casualties by telling her they are meaningless, because Rice is childless and has no "immediate family".

    Boxer's intense personalization, using the Secretary's private life to impugn her qualifications to serve, was obviously newsworthy. On The Hour of Spin--based on Keith's hyperbolic coverage of Laura Bush--it should have been one of the stories you'll be talking about tomorrow.

    But there was no bellowing about it in the opening spiel. No five-minute interview with Margaret Carlson to chew over the ramifications. Olbermann didn't tell viewers that Boxer's comments were "certain to infuriate about half the adult population". He never accused the Senator of trying to take a bit out of anyone's leg. He didn't spin psychoanalytical theories regarding Barbara Boxer's repressed motivations.

    And Edward R Olbermann most certainly didn't bemoan the lack of press coverage. How could he? He himself spiked the story. Because on OlbyPlanet, news always takes second place to Olbypocrisy.


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (293) | | View blog reactions
    user-pic

    293 Comments

    Context Johnny. It's a wonderful thing.

    Boxer: "Who pays the price? I'm not going to pay a personal price. My kids are too old, and my grandchild is too young.
    You're not going to pay a particular price, as I understand it, with an immediate family."

    It's a legitimate line of questioning - and it's not as clear-cut an attack that you make it out to be. You could easily turn it around and attack Boxer, saying that she has no personal stake in it either.

    Would it have been better if Boxer had said "Neither you nor I will pay a personal price"? Probably. But this seems to be picking at nits.

    Odds are if Sen. Boxer does start getting some serious heat for her remarks to Rice, Keith will actually start defending the idea that only women with children can really appreciate the fears their sons/daughters will die in war, and his Dec. 15 comments about Laura Bush will simply go further down the Orwellian memory hole, the same way the Soviet Union used to update its history books to eliminate people/things from past editions that were now in conflict with the current party line.

    > and it's not as clear-cut an attack that you make it out to be.

    Just as Laura Bush's comments were legitimate and not the clear cut attack Olby made them out to be? And yet look how differently Olby treated them. WHY were Laura's comments headline news then, since THEY were certainly not a clear-cut attack? The reason is simple: Olbypocrisy.

    Well done, Mr. Dollar... Excellent find.

    I keep hearing the Republicons asking the Dems what their great plan is regarding the Iraq debacle.

    Since when do Republicons need the dems to bail them out of self-made mess.

    Right about now, I guess.

    "The reason is simple: Olbypocrisy."

    No, the reason is that you seem to kicking over rocks to find anything, no matter how trivial it is.

    Note also the source - the New York Post. Why is is that the Post seems to have this telepathic ability that NO OTHER NEWS AGENCY HAS to pick up on things like this. I mean, not even FOX News has made this claim. So maybe it's a tempest in a teapot.

    LOL Ensign... *that* was a legitimate line of questioning? How is it legitimate?

    Are you kidding Johnny? Laura's attacks were vicious. One of the most vicious attacks i ever saw. Clearly brought on by a jealous rage over the time they spend together.

    Barbara was sweet and kind. And since we know she is not partisan at all, she would never intentionaly attack the other side.

    I keep hearing the Republicons asking the Dems what their great plan is regarding the Iraq debacle.

    Since when do Republicons need the dems to bail them out of self-made mess.

    Right about now, I guess.

    ===============================================


    No, they keep asking Dems for a plan to prove a point. Democrats don't have one.

    > Why is is that the Post seems to have this telepathic ability that NO OTHER NEWS AGENCY HAS to pick up on things like this.

    Again, your own hypocrisy is showing. What about Olbermann's picking up on Laura Bush comments that NO ONE ELSE made a big deal about?

    Besides that, you're not telling the truth. This exchange appeared in hundreds of papers because THE ASSOCIATED PRESS reported it. OK?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/12/ap/politics/mainD8MJEJRO0.shtml

    So what excuse will you come up with now to defend the indefensible Olbermann?

    "Why is is that the Post seems to have this telepathic ability that NO OTHER NEWS AGENCY HAS to pick up on things like this."

    Seems to me it says more about the rest of the MSM than it does about this site or the NY Post.

    Just courious about those who dont support the war. This is the official list of targets designated by the War on Terror. Which would you change?


    Abu Sayyaf
    al-Qaeda
    Ba'ath Loyalists
    Ba'athist Iraq
    Hezbollah
    Iraqi insurgency
    Islamic Courts Union
    Jemaah Islamiyah
    Mahdi Army
    Taliban
    Islamic Emirate of Waziristan

    "No, they keep asking Dems for a plan to prove a point. Democrats don't have one."

    Foxy the Snowman said on Oh Really last night that he is asking the Dems for a plan in all sincerity. He said he wasn't being (his typical self), he was actually asking in all seriousness because it's important that "we get this right."

    Apparently you didn't get the talking points memo.

    Dems have floated plenty of plans. All of which have been branded "cut and run" when most actually aren't that at all.

    "This exchange appeared in hundreds of papers because THE ASSOCIATED PRESS reported it. OK? So what excuse will you come up with now to defend the indefensible Olbermann?"

    Did ANY OTHER REPORT use the same language that the Post did? Only the Post framed it as a personal attack. The AP did not.

    As I said, Boxer's comment could have been better phrased. But it is a legitimate question of IMPACT OF POLICY. Laura Bush's remarks were not. That's why one is a legitimate line of questioning and the other is not.

    I wish I had someone around to clean up any messes I make. Grown ups clean up there own messes, and The Bush Crime Family's mess just keeps expanding.

    > Only the Post framed it as a personal attack. The AP did not.

    Wow, that was a quick backpedal from your false claim that nobody reported it except the NY Post. Not even an admission that you weren't telling the truth. And as for what the AP said about it:

    AP: "Even Rice's status as a single woman was fair game."

    Yeah, slamming someone for not being married isn't a personal attack, is it? Sheesh! The lengths the OlbyLoons will go to in order to justify the hypocrisy and double standards of Monkeymann know no bounds. It certainly shoots their credibility all to hell.

    Ensign, I'll ask again... How is it that that line of quesitoning was legitimate?

    Anyone care to guess who (Corporation or Individual, since they have the same rights, you know) has made the most money off this war? Anyone? Anyone? Those Billions of dollars a day are going somewhere, and it's not to pay our brave men and women, that's for sure.

    Billions of dollars a month, sorry, I got carried away.

    LOL YouSoSelfDeluded... Bush Crime Family... boy that was funny. Can you work the McHitlerChimp thing into your next treatise...

    What's a few Billion among cronie friends?

    Just courious about those who dont support the war. This is the official list of targets designated by the War on Terror. Which would you change?


    Abu Sayyaf
    al-Qaeda
    Ba'ath Loyalists
    Ba'athist Iraq
    Hezbollah
    Iraqi insurgency
    Islamic Courts Union
    Jemaah Islamiyah
    Mahdi Army
    Taliban
    Islamic Emirate of Waziristan

    I think they have already answered the question thusly:

    George W. Bush
    Dick Cheney
    Big Oil
    Focus on the Family
    Christians
    Newt Gingrich
    "the Jews"
    Trent Lott
    Donald Rumsfeld
    Israel
    US Army/Navy/Air Force/Marines
    American Racism
    Economic "Unfairness"
    Pro Life Groups
    The Internal Combustion Engine
    Cigarette Smokers
    WalMart

    This is who they perceive as our enemies. Islamic madmen with nukes? "Purpoted" "Alleged" "Scare Tactic"

    "LOL YouSoSelfDeluded... Bush Crime Family... boy that was funny. Can you work the McHitlerChimp thing into your next treatise..."

    It would be funny, if it weren't true.

    McHitlerChimp? Don't bring your wife into this.

    "It would be funny, if it weren't true. McHitlerChimp? Don't bring your wife into this."

    I know you are but what am I?

    (Jesus, you guys are sure nuanced)

    It's obvious that those who are prosecuting this war will share in the loss the least. Is that even debatable?

    I finally caught Olbermann's last special comment; he rocked! "it is fertilizer; and the pile keeps getting higher." Dishing it out! Were there any attempts from the drowning rats here to dispute his statements? I've been too busy lately to waste any time arguing with the usual cast of fascist mind-slaves, so I don;t know what may have transpired on OW.

    C'mon, Dollar, Cox, cee, et. al.: admit that your president is a demented shit-for-brains that is derailing our country for temporary power and fast money.

    I see... to "prosecute" a war, you must first sacrifice a kid or offer up a close relative? Since Ms Rice didn't have kids, I guess she should have submitted to torture prior to be Sec of State?

    You guys are deep...

    "(Jesus, you guys are sure nuanced)"

    I asssume by "You Guys" you mean anyone who disagrees with you, and by "Nuanced" I assume you mean thoughtful. The opening rants on this blog seem to set the 'name-calling' tone. You can't even read the first sentence without the name calling.

    "it is fertilizer; and the pile keeps getting higher."

    Sir Loin, we agree. These Special Comments are shit and the pile definitely keeps getting higher. I'm guessing he's going for, and doing well among, the "people that smoke shit and keep getting higher" demographic too.

    No, I didn't say to prosecute a war you need to sacrifice a kid. I simply stated a fact that you have yet to refute. A fact you are apparently uncomfortable with. Rice is not the only one prosecuting this war. It's the suits in congress as well.

    YouSoSelfDeluded... and your "analyses" have certainly raised the level of the debate (riiiiight)... I'm guessing you're not familiar with the context of Johnny Dollars "name-calling" (and what's behind it).

    "I simply stated a fact that you have yet to refute."

    Whatever you stated, I'm sure it was simple...

    But, I'm really not sure which "fact", among allll of the "facts", you are talking about. Care to enlighten me?

    Since your ADHD medication is wearing off, here you go again:

    It's obvious that those who are prosecuting this war will share in the loss the least. Is that even debatable?

    "YouSoSelfDeluded... and your "analyses" have certainly raised the level of the debate (riiiiight)... I'm guessing you're not familiar with the context of Johnny Dollars "name-calling" (and what's behind it)."

    Since the 'debate' was about what aspect of people's personal lives should or shouldn't be off limits, any addition would be 'elevating' the level of debate. All my legitimate Q's like "Who's making the most money off this war?" go sadly unanswered. Belligerently Uninformed indeed.

    "It's obvious that those who are prosecuting this war will share in the loss the least."

    Here's a tip YouSoSelfDeluted... when you state something that is (in you vernacular) a "fact"... it would be nice if that fact had *a point*.

    Personally, I don't know that it's "obvious", and I don't see that it has any place in any rational or intelligent discussion. If it's true or not true, my response would be the same... so what...

    "I'm guessing you're not familiar with the context of Johnny Dollars "name-calling" (and what's behind it)."

    Oh sure, I know what's behind it, as does anyone with an IQ above room temperature. A sad, pathetic person who's fear of Olbermann rivals only the fear of his own ignorance.

    "Oh sure, I know what's behind it, as does anyone with an IQ above room temperature. A sad, pathetic person who's fear of Olbermann rivals only the fear of his own ignorance."

    Ok, so you don't know what's behind it... no biggie, and certainly no reason to refer to yourself a having a low IQ.

    I'm hoping this copy and paste will help you understand my point, but I won't be surprised if it doesn't.

    Boxer: "Who pays the price? I'm not going to pay a personal price. My kids are too old, and my grandchild is too young. You're not going to pay a particular price, as I understand it, with an immediate family."

    YouSoSelfDeluded, I've read and seen the quote. A quote is not a "point". Is your point that not paying "a personal price" means that the Sec of State has less moral authority to prosecute a war? If not, what is your point?

    "Ok, so you don't know what's behind it."

    Oh, I see, Keith must have spurned your amorous advances. Get over it. There are plenty of 6'5" ex-sportcasters with bushy eyebrows you can go after.

    I noticed that Keith was in third place in his cherished 25 - 54 demographic Wednesday night beating out only Nancy Graceless.

    "Oh, I see, Keith must have spurned your amorous advances. Get over it. There are plenty of 6'5" ex-sportcasters with bushy eyebrows you can go after."

    LOL... I don't see what that has to do with my previous posts, but, please feel free to make homophobic jokes at my expense (if it makes you feel better)...

    > The opening rants on this blog seem to set the 'name-calling' tone.

    Why don't you cite the name-calling that you find objectionable. Please give me specific examples and I will attempt to defend them.

    Not sure if everyone has seen these videos of the US military in Iraq or not, but they are pretty amazing: Hopefully our 'surge' will not include too many of these types...
    http://minor-ripper.blogspot.com/2006/12/winning-hearts-and-minds-part-three.html

    Please, Olbermann isn't going to do or say a damn thing that will open him up to the slightest bit of criticism from his fan base, the crazy Democrat/liberal loonies. He's a regular reader of those sites as his show reveals time and again, where they lift stories without attribution and without fact-checking them either for that matter. He knows how quickly they can turn on someone and he's not going to risk losing all that adulation or alienating his core base of viewers by actually reporting something that is less than kiss-ass to the liberals. Why doing that would make him a real journalist and we know that ship sailed long ago with Olby.

    My God you are dense. Do I really have to beat the point over your head with a hammer so you 'get it?'

    It's much easier to prosecute an ill-advised war when one doesn't pay a personal price. Duh.

    Do you really not understand that the more one is 'removed' from a situation's dire consequences, the easier it is for that person to continue making the choices that lead to those consequences?

    Jeezus man, it's amazing you are able to find the floor when you get our of bed in the morning.

    And no, that's not to say in order to prosecute a war, one needs to lose a loved one. That would be twisting what I am saying. What I am saying is that if someone has the potential to experience the negative consequencese of their actions, they would undoubtedly make more thoughtful and considerate choices.

    "Why don't you cite the name-calling that you find objectionable. Please give me specific examples and I will attempt to defend them."

    Nice try. When did I ever say I 'objected' to the name calling? I don't. I was responding to the fact that you seemed to not appreciate my name calling, and I was merely pointing out that the whole basis for this blog begins with name-calling. I don't object. IF that's what you need to do to try to further your POV be my guest. It's you who seemed to not appreciate someone stooping to your level. Hypocrisy anyone?

    You have it backwards. It's stooping to Keith Olbermann's level.

    "Dems have floated plenty of plans. All of which have been branded "cut and run" when most actually aren't that at all.

    Posted by: YouSoSelfDeluded at January 12, 2007 12:59 PM"

    I can think of two. Redeploy to that super strategic island Okinawa OR to that other super strategic smaller than New Jersey Kuwait perched precariously on the shores of the Persian Gulf.

    They were shot down in the blink of an eye, and not just by the Repubs.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "What I am saying is that if someone has the potential to experience the negative consequencese of their actions, they would undoubtedly make more thoughtful and considerate choices."

    YouSoSelfDeluded... thanks (obviously I knew your "point"), however, your point is ridiculous/inane. Given the circumstances you cite, you might make more thoughtful and considerate choices... but, people of intelligence and conscience can make thoughful choices (regardless of the potential to experience the negative consequences). There are many many people who have experienced the negative consequences and fully support this administration's war on terror. I'm guessing that now makes it ok for you? ;-)

    Seems the pro-Olbermann results of the site's little poll reflect your less than wonderous results on the "chip away at Keith's cred" front. Personally, I love it when blowhards waste effort and fart into the wind. Isn't O'Reilly on? Better get the Lubriderm out and rub one out, fellas...

    "LOL... I don't see what that has to do with my previous posts, but, please feel free to make homophobic jokes at my expense (if it makes you feel
    better)..."

    Homophobic? Another nice try. I would have said the same thing had the target of your hatred been a woman. You chose your target not me, and I can't change your gender. Only you can do that.

    Conservatives love to try to catch who they perceive as liberal doing what they do 24/7. I'm not sure if you are a Conservicon or not, but if the shoe fits...

    ...And BTW, Surprise, I'm not a liberal or a fan of Olbermann. So the 'You Guys' thing is a bit off-base.

    YouSoSelfDeluded you protest too much :-). I was just making an observation (your homophobic joke) and not stating anything about hypocrisy or your politcal affiliation (you're the one doing that). Just because your "joke" was in bad taste, doesn't mean I think you're a homophobe, so relax...

    "but, people of intelligence and conscience can make thoughful choices (regardless of the potential to experience the negative consequences)."

    Human nature. Heard of it? Those prosecuting this war do have warm blood in their veins don't they?

    "There are many many people who have experienced the negative consequences and fully support this administration's war on terror."

    And there are many more that don't and the numbers are growing every day. And don't start with the tired 'war on terror' The war on terror is going on in Afghanistan where we are about to pull troops out. The Taliban. Heard of them? Read some news. They are more powerful and influential today than they were a year ago.

    "YouSoSelfDeluded you protest too much :-)."

    It's my nature. You may not guess it, but I am typing with a smile on my face.

    LOL... so, to summarize... if you disagree with YouSoSelfDeluded then you have to have experienced negative consequences in order to have an opinion... however, if you agree with him, then you're good to go (regardless of this "negative consequences" thing).

    Got it. Now we can move on... ;-)

    I loved this post so much.....I'm posting it again...with some additions.....

    Just courious about those who dont support the war. This is the official list of targets designated by the War on Terror. Which would you change?


    Abu Sayyaf
    al-Qaeda
    Ba'ath Loyalists
    Ba'athist Iraq
    Hezbollah
    Iraqi insurgency
    Islamic Courts Union
    Jemaah Islamiyah
    Mahdi Army
    Taliban
    Islamic Emirate of Waziristan

    I think they have already answered the question thusly:

    George W. Bush
    Dick Cheney
    Big Oil
    Focus on the Family
    Christians
    Newt Gingrich
    "the Jews"
    Trent Lott
    Donald Rumsfeld
    Israel
    US Army/Navy/Air Force/Marines
    American Racism
    Economic "Unfairness"
    Pro Life Groups
    The Internal Combustion Engine
    Cigarette Smokers
    WalMart

    This is who they perceive as our enemies. Islamic madmen with nukes? "Purpoted" "Alleged" "Scare Tactic"

    Posted by: Mags at January 12, 2007 1:10 PM

    Don't forget....

    Gay Republicans
    Evangelical Ministers
    Patriotism
    Conservative Talk Radio
    FOX News Channel

    Please join in!


    "It's my nature. You may not guess it, but I am typing with a smile on my face."

    From your posts, it's was apparent that you had a sense of humor and enjoyed the back and forth... (hell, how could I not like a guy who insults my politics, intelligence, wife, and sexual preference... all in one discussion thread! :-))

    Have you guys ever heard the adage pick your battles. This one is a strange one to defend.
    B Boxer is short on qualifications to be a Senator if that is how she behaves in her official capacity.

    What's next, only the disabled are qualified to make policy affecting them. Blind for the blind rules, deaf for the deaf rules.

    Only those with children in public school are qualified to run and make policy for schools.

    Only students are qualified to determine curriculum, grading sytems and hire and fire teachers. Would Bob keep his job? :).

    Absurdity knows no bounds.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    I'm glad to know that while Democrats spend time talking about silly subjects like global warming, our president is concentrating on the global war that is being waged against us, which will only get worse if we disengage as the feckless Left wants us to. If they had an ounce of guts, Democrats would defund the war. But they don't and they wont.

    Right now, radical Muslims are fighting Ethiopia, Israel, Russia, India, America, Iraq, Lebanon, Thailand, The Philippines ... shall I go on? Yet, the Left makes believe we're not really in a global war. And they call the president delusional!

    As writer Jack Cashill says: "Ignorant of the past, our friends on the Left don't have a clue as to causes. Blind to the present, they don't see the need for solutions."

    "Seems the pro-Olbermann results of the site's little poll reflect your less than wonderous results on the "chip away at Keith's cred" front. Personally, I love it when blowhards waste effort and fart into the wind. Isn't O'Reilly on? Better get the Lubriderm out and rub one out, fellas... "

    Hello, the poll changed over the course of about 1 hour from overwhelmingly "Keith is worthless, fire him" to "$4 million a year sounds about right" about one week ago.....then to "Keith is priceless, give him whatever he wants" in about 30 minutes, I think this week sometime.

    Some Olbermann apologist is futz'n with the poll...probably the demogogue himself.

    Hey, if GE wants to waste 4 million on a talentless leftist shill with less than 500K audience...let'm have at it....I don't own their stock and I actually find the man's idiocy entertaining.

    Right on, Grammie.....Right on, Seth!

    The OlbyLoons misunderstand the purpose of the poll. Its purpose is not to determine the correct answer. The purpose is determine how many respondents KNOW the correct answer. If "Keith is priceless" gets a huge surge of votes, that doesn't mean he IS priceless. It just means there are many OlbyLoons who just aren't connected enough with reality to know the correct answer.

    The Loons misunderstand a lot about this site Johnny, including the brilliance and hilarity of your KO-show recaps. Keep up the good work!

    This is a Nazi site. If you support the war and are able bodied and not fighting, go fight! If you believe in winning the war in Iraq, you go fight for it and die for it. But if you believe in the war and sit at home drinking starbucks then shut up...

    "If you support the war and are able bodied and not fighting, go fight! If you believe in winning the war in Iraq, you go fight for it and die for it. But if you believe in the war and sit at home drinking starbucks then shut up..."

    LOLOL! That's the new leftloon talking point! LOL... and so forcefully stated too.

    So Sirened, you were against the war in Afghanistan too?

    I don't drink Starbucks, so I guess I don't have to shut up.

    So glad you didn't bring martinis on the rocks.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Ya Grammie, I drink Starbucks, but I don't drink it while sitting at home... so i'm still good to go on the commenting also (which is nice). :)

    1
    Democrats say: "Bush has made mistake after mistake in Iraq for over three years, including the invasion itself."

    Then Democrats say: "Iraqis need to take responsibility for their own country."

    Translation: Iraqis are responsible for Bush's mistakes.

    2
    Democrats say: "Iraqis need to take responsibility for their own country."

    Malaki says: We have formulated our own plan to try to bring peace to Baghdad by having Iraqi Forces take the lead in cracking down on violence with support from American forces.

    Democrats then say: This is an awful plan we don't support.

    Translation: Iraqis need to take responsibility for their own country, but we won't support that.

    3
    Democrats say: We will not cut off funding for the troops. We will give Bush all the rope he needs to hang himself.

    Democrats also say: This surge will only kill more troops. This war cant be won militarily. The war is criminal. We care about the lost AMerican lives.

    Translation #1: We believe that this war is unwinnable and will only kill more troops. Therefore, we will not do anything to appose it in hopes that it criples Bush's presidency.

    Or

    Translation #2: We will give Bush all the rope he needs to hang himself, and that rope will be made of American lives.

    First, to Johnny Dollar:
    "It just means there are many OlbyLoons who just aren't connected enough with reality to know the correct answer."

    In other words, it's YOU stroking your EGO.

    Good to know.

    "Wow, that was a quick backpedal from your false claim that nobody reported it except the NY Post."

    I pointed out that the New York Post, and ONLY the New Yopk Post, framed it in a negative manner. YOU chose to take it to mean that I said only the New York Post reported on it, which is NOT what I said or meant. So stop twisting my words and comeing up with patently absurd interpretations.

    "The lengths the OlbyLoons will go to in order to justify the hypocrisy and double standards of Monkeymann know no bounds."

    Sir, with all due respect, you do not know me so do not presume to call me a hypocrite to further your vendetta. You chose to TWIST MY WORDS to fit your preconceived notion of what I was saying. What does that say about you?

    Now, to JohnE:
    "How is it that that line of quesitoning was legitimate?"

    Because it was a question of POLICY IMPACT - if you say "we are going to do X, Y, and Z", I can then ask you "well, what are the consequences of doing X, Y, and Z".

    I have already stated that she could have phrased it better. But the underlying question was legitimate - what's the cost?

    How many of you that believe in Bush's propaganda have traveled outside the US? I highly doubt very many of you O'Reilly viewers have. How many history majors are right wing?? Not many! Gee I wonder why? I have a history degree and have traveled all over the world, places like Turkey, Vietnam, all over Europe and lived in Australia for a year. I sure as hell believe more of Olberman than O'Reilly. You fools are the people that sophisticated Europeans laugh at and are the people that give America a bad name.

    > do not presume to call me a hypocrite to further your vendetta.

    I didn't call YOU a hypocrite, but if you chose to read it that way, I'll accept your version.

    The fact remains that Olby blew up an innocent comment by Laura Bush into a headline story that he claimed insulted "half the population" (unmarrieds). But when Barbara Boxer makes a similar comment, in a far less innocent setting, he spikes the story. That's Olbypocrisy, and if you defend this double standard, then you have defined yourself.

    "But when Barbara Boxer makes a similar comment, in a far less innocent setting, he spikes the story."

    It's a matter of interpretation of the comment. YOU choose to see the comment as malicious. I see it as ill-formed, but relating to a matter of policy.

    Again, it depends on what lens you use.

    Why attack this guy if you think he's so crazy? You insult the intelligence of everyone who reads this by the manner in which you attempt to debunk Olbermann. You're scared because his ratings are rising when your savior O'Reilly's are falling. You're scared because those of us who are young will never trust Conservativism again. And you know it. So either do a coherent breakdown of every point you disagree with (like Olbermann does), or don't do anything at all. Namecalling is just infantile.

    "I have a history degree and have traveled all over the world, places like Turkey, Vietnam, all over Europe and lived in Australia for a year"

    Oh. my. god. Then let's all bow down to you... cause you've "traveled" and you've taking college courses.

    "You fools are the people that sophisticated Europeans laugh at and are the people that give America a bad name"

    I don't think "sophisticated" means what you think it means... ;-)

    Gobirds... you too don't get the namecalling context in the show summaries that are posted here do you? (That's too bad).

    "do a coherent breakdown of every point you disagree with (like Olbermann does)"

    Like Olbermann does... that's a good one... my favorite line of this thread so far!

    EE, no matter how she phrased it, if the implication was what it appears to be, she was wrong.

    By her logic, she herself is unqualified because she has no immediate stake in the outcome either. And neither do I. Kids too old, grandkids too young. And both of us will probably be long gone from this life before the ultimate outcome of any decisions are fully felt.

    One could make a far better argument that disinterested parties make far better judges of anything. Hasn't there been a tidal wave of accusations that Bush et al are unqualified because they have a monetary interest, which in their case obviously overrides their familial interest.

    Boxer was out of line on that one. She achieved with her base making a moral accusation against Condi Rice in a underhanded way.

    What next. Generals have to have a child in every battle they plan?

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    I also wanted to mention that this is not the first time Boxer has gotten out of hand with Condi Rice. I watched some of the confirmation hearings for Condi Rice.

    B Boxer went after her to the point she looked and sounded like a screeching fishmongers wife.

    I don't know if there a history between them or not. I do know this makes twice for Boxer.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    JohnE, you didn't answer the question. Have you traveled outside the US? Hmm...it's just like I said. Most of you right wingers are so narrow minded, you just take everything at face value and don't put things in a historical context. Do you know why 9/11 happened? It happened because Muslims like Osama got pissed that we had troops in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War. It angered Muslims that we had troops in near their holiest place. We provoked 9/11. Why don't countries like Holland, Switzerland, Scandavian countries get attacked by terrorists? It's because they mind their own business internationally and take care of their own people. It's why these countries have a higher per capita standard of living than the US. I believe the US ranks about 12th in standard of living worldwide. Did you neocons know that?

    This is a Nazi site. If you support the war and are able bodied and not fighting, go fight! If you believe in winning the war in Iraq, you go fight for it and die for it. But if you believe in the war and sit at home drinking starbucks then shut up...
    ====================================================
    ONCE AGAIN, I have to bring up the obvious point that the military DOES NOT ACCEPT ANYONE AND EVERYONE. See, there's this little annoying thing called "physical requirements." If you fail any of those, or have some prexisting conditions YOU CAN'T JOIN.

    I know because I applied and was turned down. A good friend of mine joined the Air Force and was forced to come home just a few weeks after basic because of a severe asthama attack (something he hadn't experienced for YEARS).

    So to all morons that like to make the above "point", how about asking first if someone has even TRIED to serve? (or have served and their tour of duty is over, etc)

    JohnE, you didn't answer the question. Have you traveled outside the US? Hmm...it's just like I said. Most of you right wingers are so narrow minded, you just take everything at face value and don't put things in a historical context. Do you know why 9/11 happened? It happened because Muslims like Osama got pissed that we had troops in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War. It angered Muslims that we had troops in near their holiest place. We provoked 9/11. Why don't countries like Holland, Switzerland, Scandavian countries get attacked by terrorists? It's because they mind their own business internationally and take care of their own people. It's why these countries have a higher per capita standard of living than the US. I believe the US ranks about 12th in standard of living worldwide. Did you neocons know that?
    ==================================================
    Ummm...... Other countries HAVE been attacked. Spain, Britian, (anyone remember the name of that pacific country that was a couple years back?), hey! remember the artist (Theo Van Gogh) that was behead in... I think it was holland.

    And where did you get that stand of living statistic. I'm calling BS until I get a source on it. (your post seems to make "liberals" seem even MORE narrow minded)

    JohnE, what were you thinking? Those sophisticated caring for their people who gave us both World Wars have spoken.

    What else did you expect UBL to do other than give us our just deserts for provoking them. I hadn't heard that line for a while, so naturally it slipped my mind that we brought 911 on our own heads. US bases and troops in Saudi Arabia during the terms of three presidents. Lets impeach them all.

    As a narrow minded rube, I'm so glad to have my sophisticated nuanced betters tell me what to believe.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "It's a legitimate line of questioning"

    It's only a legitimate line of questioning if you think that foreign policy decisions should only be made by the families of those in the military. I give Boxer the benefit of the doubt that she's not that stupid, in which case the line of questioning could only be illegitimate hyperbole.

    Having said that, it's only a wonder Olbermann didn't think of it first.

    Blame American First Democrat...hurrah they arrived! American STINKS, the rest of the world is great!

    Hey Sirened...what has your party done to change United States Foreign Policy to fit your narrow world view....Isolationism? Sounds great, but is it really realistic? Did Bill Clinton act like The Prime Minister of Sweden?

    Have you thought this one out, Sirened? Do you remember who Sweden supported during WWII? Do you remember where all the victim's of The Holocaust's money was put....neutral Switzerland's banks? Nice...be practical...learn some history.

    Sirened... "Have you traveled outside the US?" Answer: Yes... I've even lived outside the US. Happy now?

    "Muslims like Osama got pissed that we had troops in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War. It angered Muslims that we had troops in near their holiest place. We provoked 9/11."

    Er, we were invited into Saudi Arabia during the gulf war (by Saudi Arabia) and because it pissed off Osama and his terrorist buddies, we should have gotten out? I guess that explains all the other terrorists attacks around the world for the past 15 years by Muslim extremists.

    By the way, Muslims like Osama think you should convert to his religon or be killed... so, I guess you'll be converting soon, right?

    Grim, off the top of my head I can think of a few. Indonesia, Somalia, The Phillipines, Russia, the school take over in one of the countries spun off from the Soviet Union, Germany.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "One could make a far better argument that disinterested parties make far better judges of anything."

    You could make that argument, but it's not necessarily a better one. It's easier to make decisions when you have "no dog in the fight". That doesn't necessarily mean those decisions are the BEST decisions.

    Cecelia, you are so right about Boxer. She is barely recognizable in national appearances from what I've seen her be on C-Span.

    She didn't learn partisan politics from her mother's milk, she is the mother's milk of pure politician.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    When you're lonely and cold and frightened there's only one way to make it all better...question why Keith Olbermann isn't making a big deal out of something that doesn't warrant the attention. I feel happy already.

    Grim, off the top of my head I can think of a few. Indonesia, Somalia, The Phillipines, Russia, the school take over in one of the countries spun off from the Soviet Union, Germany.
    ===================================================

    Thanks Grammie, I knew there were a lot more I was forgetting. (of course, funny how quickly people like Sirened want to forget those incidents in their rush to blame America - though did you check his blog? I don't think he's from here)

    Oh, and to answer his question (i almost forgot), yeah I have been outside the country. Went to Russia for awhile shortly after the USSR fall.

    You can't win a war against people who are willing to die and kill others at the same time by blowing themselves up. No matter what we do, they will be exalted for it, and we won't be able to withstand our own losses. Why send more troops into certain death?

    > why Keith Olbermann isn't making a big deal out of something that doesn't warrant the attention.

    Were Laura Bush's comments a big deal? Did you say that Keith made a big deal out of something that didn't warrant any attention when he smeared Laura Bush? Or is it OK for Keith to smear Republicans, but not criticize Democrats?

    When you're lonely and cold and frightened there's only one way to make it all better...question why Keith Olbermann isn't making a big deal out of something that doesn't warrant the attention. I feel happy already.
    ====================================================
    Nonfactor you're missing the point.
    Keith made a big deal out of something that did NOT warrant the attention once BEFORE.
    Now we have almost an exact repeat of the incident, something that doesn't warrant much attention, but Keith isn't making a big deal out of it, like he did the first time.

    At least, that was the point of this article. (it's called a double standard technically, does that clear anything up for anyone?)

    "You can't win a war against people who are willing to die and kill others at the same time by blowing themselves up. No matter what we do, they will be exalted for it, and we won't be able to withstand our own losses. Why send more troops into certain death?"

    Good point. I go out and order my prayer mat now... all you ladies should get fitted for burqas too! Which way is east...?

    You can't win a war against people who are willing to die and kill others at the same time by blowing themselves up. No matter what we do, they will be exalted for it, and we won't be able to withstand our own losses. Why send more troops into certain death?
    ==================================================
    I disagree, there is a way we can win this physcologically.

    Muslims (or at least, this group attacking us) believe in the clean/unclean status of an individual. They also believe that that status follows a person's spirit after death. Therefore, we need to institute a simple policy. Any terrorists that attack us, we will take their remains (as much of them as we can find) and we will defile them to the best of our ability (by their religion's own standard). Thus sending the message (in their own language): "you attack us, and we'll do everything in our power to make SURE you go to hell."

    Sure Europe would be horrified, but imagine how quickly the war might fizzle.

    Keith's only standar is the double standard.

    JohnE, please stop insulting our intelligence. This is not a domino effect sort of thing. We're losing this war for the same reason we lost Vietnam, and this administration is just taking us further off the deep-end. By your logic, we should actually (if we haven't already) engage the entire middle east. All that would do is further degrade our national security. We invaded Iraq, started a war they never asked for, and are now demanding they clean it all up themselves. How gallant we are.

    "Were Laura Bush's comments a big deal?"

    Considering that most major polls about 2008 Presidential candidates say that Rice would get a fair percentage (more than Brownback and Romney but less than McCain and Guiliani), and considering that there are several groups trying to get Rice to enter the race...

    Imagine how fast the war would fizzle if we instituted a draft. Why is it that only liberals propose that? Oh right, because if everyone who is able (I remember your post from before Challenger) was forced to go in, not only would ALL remaining public support for the war fade, we would pull out immediately.

    Where outside the US did you live JohnE? I lived in Australia for a year and my wife is Australian. Better overall standard of living than the US by the way. And yes I will leave the US to live for good sometime soon, just here for family reasons for the time being.

    The US was invited into Saudi Arabia by the corrupt House of Saud. You know, that COMPLETE dictatorship that the Bush's hold hands with? And we were not invited back this time because they are scared their dictatorship will fall. Yeah, Muslim fundamentalism is a problem but so is Christian fundamentalism. The fundamentalist Christians want to destroy the whole Muslim world. I think they should all just destroy each other, that's the real solution!

    And as for other terrorist attacks. Spain? Ally of the US in Iraq. Britain? Ally of the US in Iraq. Of course, terrorism occurs for many other reasons too and can never be fully stopped. Declaring a "war on terror" is like declaring a war on drugs. Best way to fight terrorism here is securing the border! Don't you realize what a farce this is???

    Wow Gobirds... you sure got a lot out of my posts. I said/implied that we should take on the whole middle east (because I thought it was a bad idea to appease Osama)? OK. I guess you're right then.

    EE, easier, harder or anywhere in between is not what I said OR meant. Copied and pasted from my comment:

    "One could make a far better argument that disinterested parties make far better judges of anything."

    I understand and know the point you are trying to make. I've never lost a child but there have been some close calls. In the first instant of fear you understand your own parents totally. My stomach is queasy just thinking about it closely.

    And that is why Boxer and her argument are fallacious. Being that close to a situation makes you an emotional basket case and incapable of doing what is right and best for everyone, not just for yourself.

    During hostage situations when families are weeping and pleading do anything, just save mine. I would do the same. If I had the power I would give anything and everything and throw in California to save MINE.

    That is why her implied argument is fallacious. The number of people who can rise above that are precious and rare.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Sure Europe would be horrified, but imagine how quickly the war might fizzle."

    yes, let's make this even MORE like the Crusades. That's the solution!

    My goodness Challenger, that is a dreadful idea. Not only would you alienate our few allies in the Middle East, but can you imagine the retaliation by the extremists? It would make what they've done in the past look like a frickin' Teddy Bear's Picnic...

    Sirened... lived in Englan and Northern Ireland for 3 years. Happy?

    So, if Osama says don't do it, we shouldn't do it... and any country that asks for our help or that allows us to have bases in their country is corrupt? Got it.

    Sorry, EE. I misread your comment, not vice versa.

    Just skip that part and go on, if you would.

    Thanks,

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    And by the way, by "terrorism" do you also include what we have done in Iraq and other places? We supported the Taliban against the Soviets in Afganistan, Saddam against Iran in the 80's, among so many others. We support the dictatorships of Kazakhstan and Saudi Arabia. Why? Because we have a vested interest. We support them until they stop supporting us. Bush could give 2 shits about democracy. Remember what he said "This would be a whole lot easier if this were a dictatorship, just so long as I were the dictator." He should know seeing as how he has his dictator friends!

    I knew it was England JohnE. Yet another country that has not learned their history lessons. Australia supports the US too only because it's in their interests to have the US on their side. And it's not like any of their guys actually die, not a bad deal for them.

    What was that poem? I know I am going to mangle it so if someone can help, please do.

    When they came for the dissenters I didn't say anything

    When they came for the Jews I didn't say anything

    When they came for the Catholics I didn't say anything.................

    When they came for me there was no one left to say anything

    Sirened and others on this site seem to be convinced that they somehow will escape the fate of others if we retreat back to our shores and let everyone else be taken.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    That's not gonna work on me Grammie, I AM jewish. I lost family members due to the Nazis. My family lives in Manhattan and the others live near the Pentagon. Some of my best friends lost family in 9/11. And I'll be the first one to say that I feel less safe with what we've misguidedly undertaken. If you think this is about terrorism, you're wrong. If it were only about terrorism, we would have STAYED IN AFGHANISTAN. This is about ego and oil. And now it's a disaster.

    Sirened, referring to Britain, as yet another country that has not learned their history lesson yet.

    Those bad Brits. UBL will teach them a thing or two, no doubt.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Sirened, Having taken a look at your website, it is clear you have the mind of a child. A dim-witted child, that is. The BUSH-Hitler picture is a turn off to anyone with a GED or better. Grow the f--- up.

    My goodness Challenger, that is a dreadful idea. Not only would you alienate our few allies in the Middle East, but can you imagine the retaliation by the extremists? It would make what they've done in the past look like a frickin' Teddy Bear's Picnic...
    ===================================================
    1) that idea is in response to "how do you stop someone willing to die to kill you" and the answer to that is simple: make their death not worth it.

    2) And what would the alternative be? What did we do after WTC '93? What did we do after the USS Cole? I don't mind people saying "that's a bad idea" (about anything) but I really would like to hear a better one. Aren't a lot of leftists talking about how we're failing to win hearts and minds as it is?

    Boxer's statement is irrelevant. She said that she had no personal stake in the war thus she pays no price and she said that Sec. Rice had no personal stake in the war thus she pays no price. I don't see the problem.

    You stinking Rightwing loons. Olbermann speaks the truth. He is a guiding light in this dark age. A sage who will be remembered like Aristotle. Lets try to start with Iran. Their army will whip ours. I drink champagne sit back and laugh at dead Fascists!

    If it were only about terrorism, we would have STAYED IN AFGHANISTAN. This is about ego and oil. And now it's a disaster.
    ===================================================
    I wasn't aware we had left Afghanistan. The public's attention sure, but I thought the US was still over there. I apologize if I missed the update, it's been a very chaotic holiday for me this year.

    Oh come on, that's not what I meant, and you know it. I meant we would have limited ourselves to Afghanistan.

    Gobirds, the point of the poem as I see it is not a reference to the Holocaust. I did not use it that way.

    I used it to respond to Sirened who seems to advocate protecting ourselves by throwing everything and everyone else to the dogs.

    Europe, if things continue on the same path, will be majority Muslim before the end of this century. If we withdraw, as so many want, what is that going to do to the balance of power? I have doubts that we will still be leading our normal lives at that point.

    My belief system has been formed by the horrors of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. I would rather be mistaken in strength and confrontation with a weak enemy than confronted with those horrors from a strong enemy.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    A muslim majority is not the end of the world. A muslim extremist majority is, please distinguish between the two. Our actions now only serve to push more muslims to extremism.

    Lilly white Liberals telling Americans what's what. What a f---ing bunch of ass clowns you are. Liberals are making the preposterous claim that " 80% of the country" now thinks like they do. The truth is they might have won an election due to war weariness, but solidly half this country hate the left and don't trust them and they aren't proving that they should be trusted. Next month I'll be redeployed to Kabul, and believe me, we in the armed forces hate Olbermann and hate you liberals that demean us every chance you get.

    Boxer's statement is irrelevant. She said that she had no personal stake in the war thus she pays no price and she said that Sec. Rice had no personal stake in the war thus she pays no price. I don't see the problem.
    ==================================================
    That's not the problem. I'll try one more time, using vague metaphors.

    Sound Bite A enters the mainstream consciousness.
    Comentator X harps upon Sound Bite A, blowing it way out of purportion.
    Time passes.
    Sound Bite B occurs and enters the mainstream consciousness.
    Sound Bite B has MUCH in common with A (close enough to be cousins, if not siblings).
    Comentator X does NOT harp upon B to any extent that he did A.

    Thus, we have a double standard.

    "The public's attention sure, but I thought the US was still over there. I apologize if I missed the update, it's been a very chaotic holiday for me this year."

    We are, but we just pulled a brigade out to send to Iraq. At the same time, the commanders there say they need that brigade plus another fresh brigade to respond to a fierce Taliban campaign.

    Wow, LanceCorporal. Personally, I love our troops. I just wish we could bring you all home so there wouldn't be any getting killed.

    Wow, LanceCorporal. Personally, I love our troops. I just wish we could bring you all home so there wouldn't be any getting killed. Thank you for your service, regardless.

    >"Thus, we have a double standard."

    No. What we have is someone who decided not to harp on an irrelevant statement. Whether or not he harped on a different irrelevant statement is irrelevant. Unless of course you think everything that happens should be reported by one person regardless of how important or how unimportant it is.

    Oh come on, that's not what I meant, and you know it. I meant we would have limited ourselves to Afghanistan.
    ===================================================
    Ok, my apologies, but I am curious, do you deny that the problem we face is not a global problem? Do you think that the taliban was ONLY in afghanistan?

    Or let me phrase it in another way (so as not to make you defensive), do you mean a strict limitation or flexible limitation? Under what circumstances and standards do you think would be appropiate for us to then go to another country and fight, spreading our attention from afghanistan, etc?

    LanceCorporal, this isn't a left/right issue so don't try to act like it's one. It's a common sense issue and the overwhelming position take by the people of America should prove that to you.

    We were attacked directly by Al-Qaeda, whose base of operations was Afghanistan. Not Iraq. We invaded a country based on information that many of us were led to believe was true, saying, not that they were involved with Al-Qaeda, but that they had WMD's, though we had no direct proof of this. It's one thing to go based on good information that has been confirmed, it's quite another to go because your father "failed". No, I am not advocating to wait until we get attacked before we attack. However, a pre-emptive strike is not something that should be done the way we did it. It has cost us too much in the long run.

    > What we have is someone who decided not to harp on an irrelevant statement.

    Because it was embarrassing to a Democrat.

    > Whether or not he harped on a different irrelevant statement..

    Because he could make it sound embarrassing to a Republican.

    I'm sure it's just coincidence that Olby harps on statements that make the GOP look bad, but not those that make the Dems look bad. No, that's not a double standard. Of course not.

    Welcome to OlbyPlanet.

    Johnny, the reason why your argument is stupid is because you sound like you expect Olbermann to report on every single story that is admittedly irrelevant. If he reported on every single story every single day that made Republicans (just Republicans) sound stupid we wouldn't have time for any news or analysis.

    If we want to talk about irrelevancy, can we talk about the "War on Christmas"? That's always a fun one. I think we need to lighten things up in here.

    Gobirds, except for Turkey which kinda qualifies as a moderate Muslim country, where are these Muslims going to come from.

    Do a little reading about Europe, the Phillipines etc. Riots, demands for accommadations they don't extend to anyone else rampant and demands that Islam never be critisized.

    Every Muslim majority country, with the half hearted exception of Turkey, is ruled by the extremists.

    For the first time in my life I feel that we have encountered a huge cohesive group of people who don't share the rest of the world's values to love, take care of their children and live in peace as much as possible.

    When they parade mother's who glory in the death of every one of (6 or 7 I think) her sons death as martyrs against the unbelievers I just don't think if she lived next door I would invite her over for coffee.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Dollar, the rank hypocrisy of Olbermann is perfectly showcased by this, yet another issue that screams out to any who follow the daily spin and propaganda spewed on CountDown. Thank you.

    "LanceCorporal, this isn't a left/right issue so don't try to act like it's one. It's a common sense issue and the overwhelming position take by the people of America should prove that to you.

    Posted by: Nonfactor at January 12, 2007 4:43 PM"

    You sure could have fooled me as a card carrying, ask any number at this site, member of the Reich Wing Christonazi KKK Repuglicant.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    observer Dan, do you only look at pictures? You must not observe much if you see no parallels between Bush and Hitler. And gee who are many Bush supports: the uninformed, Christian fundamentalists (many are very ignorant), the very wealthy and some scattered right wing nut jobs who want to destroy the world.

    And Grammie, that poem you put can be interpreted in many different ways. I am a dissenter of Bush's policies, if he could he would love to take me and many others away.

    Nonfactor, in my best Professor Henry Higgens voice.

    MY GOD YOU HAVE GOT IT.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Maybe Miss Odormoronn will ask dingbat Huffington about Boxer's comment on tonight's Meltdown?

    Ok, the reason I came to this board in the first place, actually, was not to debate the war, but to talk about Keith's liberalness. Honestly, the same reasons you dislike Keith are the same reasons I dislike O'Reilly, and pretty much everyone on Fox news, and the same reason that everyone on this board is fighting. We like it when people agree with us, and will go after the tiniest nuance when they don't. The press as a whole has gotten nastier since the late 80's, and at this point, no one likes the New York Times. No one. Not liberals (believe it or not), not conservatives. It's easy to point at people like Olbermann or O'Reilly and say "They're bombastic mouthpieces." But the fact is that those of us who love Keith love him because our viewpoint has been mocked, sidelined and insulted for the past 6 years. He has taken some real risks in what he's said (and no, I don't mean carping on Laura Bush or anything like, I mean more in terms of his special comments), in an era where seemingly anyone who disagrees with the administration gets his or her patriotism questioned. If anything is like Stalinism, that is. It's insulting to imply that those of us who don't believe in what the White House tells us don't love America. We do. We just want our civil liberties back. Keith basically just says in a public forum what the rest of us say at home.

    Sirened,

    I have served in the US Military (Gulf War), lived overseas (as a non military member), and have a degree in history. Oddly enough I still find myself on the conservitive side of the fence. But here goes:
    Osama Bin Laden was upset that the U.S. had troops on the Arabian Pennisula (That includes Kuwait). He was also very angry that he offered to drive the Iraqi's from Kuwait with his own private "jihad" warriors, and King Fahd said no thank you. That is the real reason for Osama's hatred. He was asked to leave Saudia Arabia by the House of Saud, because he was radical and militant. Seems that he wanted to overthrow the government there, and replace it with a democracy....oops I mean a theocracy with him at the head. Can't blame a guy for trying. At any rate, If my neighbor is unhappy about my presence in my other neighbors yard, he should take it up with the guy who invited me, not blow up my dog house with my dog in it. When you are done living off your parents trust fund, and enjoying activists day out, let us know. Until then, be happy that you live in a country that allows you to spew venom all over it's leader.

    Cheers,

    Joe E.

    Gobird, have you asked any Gulag survivors from Stalinist Russia how they would compare GWB et al so called clamping down on rights to dissent words to Stalin's tactics.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    > Maybe Miss Odormoronn will ask dingbat Huffington about Boxer's comment on tonight's Meltdown?

    No, IF he addresses it at all due to the influential Olbermann Watch calling him out on it, he will do so by defending Pelosi! Yes it makes no sense, yes it is hypocrisy to the third power, but that's Olby's style. You heard it here first.

    Grammie,
    I guess I just wanted to fight this afternoon. Let's face it, my side is never going to convince your side, and your side is never going to convince my side. Let's just agree that we both support our country, we both support our troops, and we just have different ideas about the best ways to do that. And this, friends, will be my last post here. One last thing: GO BIRDS!!

    "Every Muslim majority country, with the half hearted exception of Turkey, is ruled by the extremists."

    You left out Saudi Arabia, Grammie. The House of Saud is definitely not extremist and actively suppresses radicals.

    The theater of the absurd continues :
    Iraq Govt Appoints Former Saddam General To Carry Out Bush's New Iraq Plan.
    Can you imagine that boys and girls !

    plus :

    BAGHDAD, Jan. 11 Iraq's Shiite-led government offered only a grudging endorsement on Thursday of President Bush's proposal to deploy more than 20,000 additional troops in an effort to curb sectarian violence and regain control of Baghdad. The tepid response immediately raised questions about whether the government would make a good-faith effort to prosecute the new war plan.

    Looks awful good doesn't it, RW'ers !

    Bush's NEW WAY FORWARD is being led by one of Saddam's OLD generals.

    Little too much irony for you olby haters ?

    Within hours of Mr. Bush’s speech, American commanders were meeting with their Iraqi counterparts in Baghdad to work out the details of a new command arrangement that would give Mr. Maliki a direct role in overseeing the new crackdown. The Iraqis named a commander for the operation,((((( Lt. Gen. Aboud Gambar, a Shiite from southern Iraq who was a top general in Saddam Hussein’s army))))) until the American-led invasion in 2003.

    Gobird, these vicious accusations that you complain about are in the mind of the beholder. Comparing one time in history to another time in history is not an accusation that you are a traitor. Look in yourself if that is what you hear and believe.

    Quisling was a traitor. Chamberlain was misguided. You have, I'm sure, been accused of that and worse by some people. But not by Government officials. If, as you claim, you are living in a country that acts like Stalinist America you guys are lucky to be alive.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "LOL... so, to summarize... if you disagree with YouSoSelfDeluded then you have to have experienced negative consequences in order to have an opinion... however, if you agree with him, then you're good to go (regardless of this "negative consequences" thing)."

    Does your back hurt after making that stretch?

    MSNBC = DNCTV

    Joe E,

    It's good to hear a conservative voice that has a knowledge of history. But what did/does Bush think would/will become of Iraq? We supported the Taliban and Saddam and they turned against us.

    Most Americans don't realize that they actually have elections in Iran. And look at what's happening...

    We will not win in Iraq, you have a history degree so you should know this, regardless of whether you are right or left.

    And god forbid we criticize leaders that clearly deserve it. Thank god Bush hasn't destroyed this country THAT much. And I don't live off a trust fund just for the record.

    "You left out Saudi Arabia, Grammie. The House of Saud is definitely not extremist and actively suppresses radicals.

    Posted by: Ensign Expendable at January 12, 2007 5:13 PM"

    EE, I will concede the point to this degree. The House of Saud has one over riding principle. If they are in power theology be damned. They only suppress extremists who are also opposed to them.

    I say, use em and then lose em when our national interest parts company with theirs.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Anon of the phoney headlines has a new moniker and format.

    Ho hum, same-o same-o.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Johnny, the reason why your argument is stupid is because you sound like you expect Olbermann to report on every single story that is admittedly irrelevant. If he reported on every single story every single day that made Republicans (just Republicans) sound stupid we wouldn't have time for any news or analysis.
    ===================================================
    You're almost there. So again, to use a general metaphor... let's say there was a story about the nintendo Wii, irrelevant, but Comentator X made a big deal about it. Then an almost identical story comes out about playstation 3. Now the story is just as irrelevant as before, contains largely the same content, etc, yet for this time, he did not report on it. So again, why do you think Comentator X made a big deal about a stupid story related to the Wii but did not make as big a deal about a story just as stupid when the PS3 was involved?

    It's pretty much the definition of double standard.

    observer Dan, do you only look at pictures? You must not observe much if you see no parallels between Bush and Hitler. And gee who are many Bush supports: the uninformed, Christian fundamentalists (many are very ignorant), the very wealthy and some scattered right wing nut jobs who want to destroy the world.
    ==================================================
    ? Are you saying Hitler's supporters were the same as Bush's? If so, then you know nothing of history.

    "Unless we are utterly oblivious to the facts, we must realize that the German workers are the most reliable supporters of the Hitler regime. Nazism has won them over completely by eliminating unemployment and by reducing the entrepreneurs to the status of shop managers (Betriebsfuehrer). Big business, shopkeepers, and peasants are disappointed. Labor is well satisfied and will stand by Hitler, unless the war takes a turn which would destroy their hope for a better life after the peace treaty. Only military reverses can deprive Hitler of the backing of the German workers." -Von Mises, 1940
    Ok, so that rules out the wealthy.

    Not to mention, that well... hitler actually had MORE support from Germany than Bush currently has from America.
    "These essays [in Conan Fischer, ed. The Rise of National Socialism and the Working Classes in Weimar Germany. Providence/Oxford: Berghahn Books, 1996. viii + 248 pp. Bibliographical references and index. $45.00 (cloth), ISBN 1-57181-915-0.] conveniently package the sort of evidence that has shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Nazis, unlike other German political parties up to that time, cut across class, regional, and religious lines...."

    Hey Grammie,

    "I say, use em and then lose em when our national interest parts company with theirs"

    That's ironic you would say that because that's how many in the world view us. Well, the ones that don't fear us and think we are trying to cause World War III.

    Because we have invaded Iraq and Bush sucks at actually talking to people, our military has been weakened so that we are not a serious threat to Iran and North Korea.

    I believe it was Teddy Roosevelt that said "speak softly but carry a big stick." So use diplomacy and don't use force unless necessary. If I was Iran I would want Nukes too. We have them!

    And, if TR had no big stick, never threatened to use the big stick and took an oath to not use it under any circumstances upon what criteria would his policy have been effective.

    Not being a lawyer I have no compunction about asking a question that I don't have the answer to.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Challenger Grim,

    I didn't say that Bush and Hitler's supporters were the same. But conservatives love throwing Hitler around to describe all sorts of other leaders. The thing Bush and Hitler have most in common is that they are/were ideological psychos.

    Hitler was elected by a plurality, he got about 37% of the vote when he was elected. He became popular through different measures (yes, reviving the economy). Bush WAS popular after 9/11, he has become less popular now that people have woken up to all the bullshit. FINALLY!! Jesus...

    Is there any doubt that Bush wants to be a dictator like his fellow oil rich Saudi royal friends that he holds hands with?

    Is there any doubt that Bush wants to be a dictator like his fellow oil rich Saudi royal friends that he holds hands with?
    =================================================
    umm.... yeah.

    I mean, look at Putin in Russia. THERE'S a guy trying to become a dictator.

    (for fun, I thought I'd post a foreign policy I agree with lol)
    Colin Powell is credited with coming up the "Pottery Barn" Rule of foreign policy, i.e., "You break it, you bought it." The idea is that, if we attack a country, we are then responsible for fixing the place and making it thriving democracy... or at least one that's only dying very slowly like we did with Germany and Japan.

    This is obviously a dumb policy.

    As we now know, the American people hate rebuilding operations. If we stay to fix a place, people will complain "quagmire" and constantly whine and annoy the troops. Thus, the policy is not sustainable.

    I suggest a new foreign policy called the "Hulk Smash" rule. If a country angers us, we smash them. And we have no responsibility to rebuild them since it was their fault for making us angry and causing us to smash them. Because we're the Hulk.

    Some may say this is an irresponsible policy that will make other countries angry at us, but that's a stupid opinion since other countries are always angry at us. The smart thing to do is then disregard the opinions of foreigners when settling on a foreign policy. Thus, the best policy is to follow the "Hulk Smash" rule in which we kill evil foreigners and then no longer have to worry about the clean up afterwards.

    Yeah Yeah Yeah Olbermann is Liberal and Sean Vanity, Lush Rimjob, Michael Weiner Savage, and Oh Really are Conservative. So what?

    You hate Olbermann because he doesn't come out and say he's Liberal, so what? You call his fans crazy because they don't agree with you?

    Aren't people entitled to their opinions no matter how wrong you think they are? Both O'Reilly and Olbermann call their shows "News and Opinion." You want your news without spin, personality, or opinion, just wash down the anonymous AP wire reports with your morning orange juice.

    Calling anyone who disagrees with you, or anyone who agrees with someone you don't like crazy isn't exactly a winning strategy to further your point of view.

    Olbyloons, Dittoheads, Culture Warriors (culture bad, must destroy)....You're all a few senators short of a congressional caucus.

    Here's my talking points memo:

    Anyone you think is always right isn't and anyone you think is always wrong isn't. Both parties deserve to have their points of view represented in whatever fashion they deem necessary. Networks are going to do what they think will get them ratings, and consequently, advertising money.

    It's sad you guys are investing so much time and energy into what people say on TV.

    I like being an Independent...You know why? There are no "Independent Strategists" or "Independent Lobbyists" or "Independent Pundits."

    I am not represented by anything other than my very own opinions I arrived at myself. It's refreshing, some of you should try it.

    Well, Grim, it didn't take the suave, urbane sophisticate Sire Ned long to descend into BDS.

    "The thing Bush and Hitler have most in common is that they are/were ideological psychos."

    I do think, though, that psycopath would have had more of an upper class sophisticated ring to it. 'Psycho' sounds so common. Puts one in mind of the crass cinema.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    You have to be very skeptical of a network that has to keep reminding you that they're "fair and balanced." The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is bright red.

    That tiny blueberry in the middle of the pudding is Alan Colmes.

    Sirened,
    "Why don't countries like Holland, Switzerland, Scandavian countries get attacked by terrorists? "
    What about the murder of Theo Van Goh by an Islamic radical. That's a terrorist act. The riots in France by Islamic youths is terrorism. Obiously you have the European head in the sand mentality. Ehile they continue not to have kids, Muslism are poring into their countries and having babies. Within 20-30 years Muslims will be the majority in France, Belgium and Holland. They will establish Sharia and by by free Europe.

    "Most Americans don't realize that they actually have elections in Iran. And look at what's happening..."
    Elections like the Soviet Union did. Let me ask you, if Iran is such a great country why don't you take out your Burka and move their. Let me how their women's rights are.
    Europe is doom Islam will rule there. So good luck let me know how the Islamique Republica de France is!

    Keith says and does stuff I don't agree with.

    O'Reilly says and does stuff I don't agree with.

    The only person you should agree with all the time is yourself, and that might even be a stretch for some of you.

    It's all the self-righteous sanctimonious BS I can do without.

    Sirened,
    What is about Iran that the Left admires. What about the Holocaust denial conference did that tickle your Europhile Anti-Semetic fancy?

    Intelligent people making educated decisions based on sound judgment on our behalf.

    That's what I want out of a governement, and we sure as hell don't have that now, no matter how you might want to spin the facts to support your political party.

    YouSoSelfDeluded is the Jar Jar Binks of this board. A new character everyone can't stand.

    The board always goes the same route in general. Cox makes a great point, such as the one he made above, and it quickly turns into "IraqWatch" or "BushWatch". Instead of discussing the objectivity of Olbermann (remember, Countdown is a news program and is part of the NBC News family), it morphs into "Bush is bad, so Keith can say or do whatever he wants because he is anti-Bush".

    Red Wolf,

    Almost everything you say comes right off the Michael Savage website and radio program.

    I didn't know wolves regurgitate to feed their young.

    By the way, I see that Olbermann finished a pathetic fourth in the Thursday night ratings (only beating Fast Money on CNBC).

    Is it time to do something called, "A Really, Really Special Comment" to pump up the ratings?

    Olbypocrisy - Example CXVII ?!? Obviously ... you guys do not want anybody putting your hypocracies in chronolgoical order very easily!!!!

    YouSoSelfDeluded,
    Everything you say comes out of Jiahis websites.

    Red Wolf: As a french major can I just say, if you're going to insult France, please don't insult the language too. French doesn't use "republica". It would be "république".

    À plus!

    YouSoSelfDeluded,
    Have read about Europes population decline and growing Islamization. Obviously not. You're an Ostrich Islamic loving Leftist.

    "YouSoSelfDeluded is the Jar Jar Binks of this board. A new character everyone can't stand."

    If it were a popularity contest, I might care.

    I figured that being Independent might threaten the "Right / Wrong" "Black / White" vibe of this site.

    ...And Jar Jar Binks? C'Mon, why don't you just say that your light saber is bigger than my light saber.

    "The only person you should agree with all the time is yourself, and that might even be a stretch for some of you.

    It's all the self-righteous sanctimonious BS I can do without.

    Posted by: YouSoSelfDeluded at January 12, 2007 6:16 PM"

    Very good advice. But then you add a gratuitous insult. Then you go on to accuse others of being sanctimonius.

    How many times have you been accused of being a brain dead parrot for any media person or politician?

    I would guess I have at least a hundred times.

    And no come back that of course, because you are. YOU brought this up.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Yikes!,
    I did that on puropse. French is to the Latin tonque what Patios is to English. I don't respect that country or culture. If Al-Qaeda rammed Planes into the Eifel tower or the Lourve I would go out and celebrate!

    "YouSoSelfDeluded, Have read about Europes population decline and growing Islamization. Obviously not. You're an Ostrich Islamic loving Leftist."

    Yeah, I read it on the Michael Savage website just like you did.

    "YouSoSelfDeluded, Everything you say comes out of Jiahis websites."

    Yeah Yeah Yeah, if someone doesn't agree with you, they're a terrorist.

    Sadly proving my point once again.

    RedState,
    That's why these Leftists and Jihad lovers attack Bush. They can't defend Olbermann. When he gets attack it hits a nerve and they begin Bush bashing.

    I can see you totally respect our country and culture. For instance, "planes" should be lowercase, and here in the US we spell "puropse" and "tonque" as "purpose" and "tongue". Also it's Patois. It's something you speak, not something you put a lawnchair on.

    I don't go for "population decline" spin. Minorities always grow (in the Section Eight develpoments that the righties always hate) and majorities always grow, by volume, in the city. It is quite a dance we have going on, here ! ! !

    Grim,

    Your "Hulk Smash" foreign policy is kinda funny. Too bad so many Americans actually believe in it!! I've heard so many times "the solution to all this is to just nuke them all." Funny that, who are the people that say that? Bush supporters. And what do they want to do? They want GENOCIDE. That's the way to solve all this. Just kill them all.

    And Grim, Putin is a friend of Bush's! Bush said "I have looked into his eyes, he is a good man." Did you hear that one? Ha, what a joke!

    And yeah there are a lot of BS elections, like the ones in Egypt that the US touts! Mahmoud was elected in Iran and he didn't need his daddy to get there. They just had elections there and he lost support in his legislative equivalent because he is mad and too concerned over foreign dominance than his own domestic problems. Hmm, kinda sounds like Bush! The two should just whip them out and compare sizes and end all this.

    We can all take little bits of history and spin them for our argument but the point is understanding the big picture. We can't fix Iraq, they have to fix it themselves. It is already a blood bath there. We will kill more of them and they will kill more of us. But there will be a time after more and more deaths that we will say enough is enough and leave-like Vietnam. We left there and they killed each other some more but then settled down. Last I checked the world didn't end when we left there.

    Sirened,
    what about your beloved Europe that in 2 generations will come under Islamic rule. What do have to say about that.

    Hey are you Pro-Iran because of the Holocaust Denial conference? As a Europhile I know how much you guys loved the Holocaust!

    "If Al-Qaeda rammed Planes into the Eifel tower or the Lourve I would go out and celebrate!"

    And if France didn't save our asses during the Revolutionary War (by providing men, material and the friggin' French Navy), we'd still be British.

    And then they did it AGAIN by refusing to recognize the Confederacy during the Civil War. Do you have any idea how hard it would have been for the Union if the French (and British) had recognized the CSA as legitimate and provided it support?

    Yes, we paid them back by liberating them in WWI and WWII, but your callous disregard for one of THE MOST STAUNCH of America's allies is deeply wrong. Charles De Gaulle supported us in the Cuban Missle Crisis based ONLY on the say-so of President Kennedy! You don't get that kind of trust through strength alone.


    BUSH: BOTCHED U.S. OCCUPATION IN IRAQ WILL WORK, IT WILL, IT WILL, IT WILL

    -- Sectarian Regressive Ideologue President Bitch-Slapped By Sectarian Regressive Ideologue Insurgency --

    WASHINGTON -- Unswayed by anti-war passions, President Bush will send 21,500 additional U.S. troops to Iraq and build the American presence there toward its highest level to quell worsening bloodshed. The move puts Bush on a collision course with the new Democratic Congress and runs counter to advice from some senior generals as well as many prominent Republicans. Announcing his intentions in a prime-time speech Wednesday night, Bush acknowledged making mistakes in Iraq, primarily failing to deploy enough U.S. soldiers and demanding more Iraqi troops and cooperation to confront the country's near-anarchy.


    "Very good advice. But then you add a gratuitous insult."

    That's customary on this blog, is it not?

    It's my conservative side showing though, not wanting to break with tradition and all.

    : George W. Bush is smarter than you think that he is, you know ? ! ? !

    Red Wolf, your use of the English language disgusts me. I suggest we send you back to grade school, as it seems you were schooled before No Child Left Behind. Please learn to use proper punctuation and capitalization rules. Perhaps then your posts would hold a little more credence.

    Sirened,

    What do you think Iran will do when the U.S. strats withdrawing before the end of the year? (which seems more and more likely Wait for Iraq to "settle down"?

    Ensign Expendable,
    The France that helped us during the Revolutionary war was Bourbon France. Not this pro-Islamic dying nation. France will be with 2 generations an Islamic Republic. They will turn the Eiffel tower into a Call to prayer tower, The Notre Dame will be a Mosque and the Lourve will be destyoed for anti-Islamic art. France is lost. I will cheer anyway. Also someone with Spanish and Italian blood I don't like them. They're plenty of bad blood between the Frankish Barbarians us Latins. I was proud that it was Latin country, Italy that defeated France in the World Cup. The best was calling that Frenc Muslim player the sone of a terrorist whore. Those word couldn't be better!

    Red Wolf; During the Revolutionary war, the French were pro-minority then as well.

    Yikes!,
    Your posts have no credence. Just Leftwing talking points.

    PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STOP! IT HURTS MY EYES!

    "The best was calling that Frenc Muslim player the sone of a terrorist whore. Those word couldn't be better!"

    No, honey, those words (emphasis on the plural "s") couldn't be worse. For your own good, please study harder. I know the GED is hard, but it's not that hard.

    Olbermann Watch [Us Bicker] in Technicolor,
    "Red Wolf; During the Revolutionary war, the French were pro-minority then as well."

    Ask the Hatians how the French treat blacks!

    Anyways, it's a lucky thing I was born in Canada (my mom is American), dad is Greek. So I have American, Canadian and Greek citizenship (that means I am an EU citizen too). Plus my wife is Australian so I can get permanent residence for that country if I want.

    But I consider myself an American and always will because I have lived here most of my life. But I have already decided I am leaving. Europe may be going downhill but it's going downhill slower than the US.

    The whole world is going downhill because we are animals and enjoy waging war like monkeys. I will just move whereever is best at the time and move accordingly. Peace out conservatives. And "liberals", try and save this place!

    Cheers everyone :-)

    Last time I checked, it was the right wing that wanted to make English the national language. But hey, what do I know? I'm just someone who knows how to use the language correctly.

    France gave the Indians their first territories. They had success with the ancestors of the Muslims that you dislike. They were diplomatic and curteous to all neighboring factions. Etc. etc. etc. ...

    Sirened,
    You haven't answered my question. What do you think of the Islamization of Europe?

    It's "Haitans" you moron, "Haitans". Please tell me that you didn't learn these things from Alicia Silverstone in "Clueless".

    "Very good advice. But then you add a gratuitous insult."

    That's customary on this blog, is it not?

    It's my conservative side showing though, not wanting to break with tradition and all.

    Posted by: YouSoSelfDeluded at January 12, 2007 6:46 PM"

    With that answer I do christen IAmSoSelfDeluded.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    Olbermann Watch [Us Bicker] in Technicolor,
    that's too funny. The truth is that French Canadian aren't pure French. Many of them have Native American blood. Maybe that's why I like the Quebecious!

    Too bad there's no such thing as the "Quebecious".

    They should form there own nation--- perhaps even urge New Brunswick to join just for more leway on the North American continent .

    Yikes!,
    Are you an English teacher? Do you have a life? A true Leftist. Just complain, bitch and whine about something.

    Yikes!,
    Are you Olbermann?

    The Islamification of Europe is what it is. They are paying a price for imperialism. At least they have attempted to unite through the EU. Of course, not all European ideals are the same.

    Anyways, What do you think about the hispanification of the US red wolf? It is what it is huh? Bush has ignored it for big business interests.

    Like the movie Passion of Christ .

    I just done reading Y.S.S.D.'s post.

    It's looks like to me this guy is an all around hater. Or does he?

    He says Olbermann , than he says Vanity,Rimjob, Weiner, and O'Really.

    Hummm, I'm registered independent. and I can say Hannity, Limbaugh,Savage,Maddow,Levin, Doyle, Rhoades, and O'Reilly.

    Do we have a kool-aid-drinking section of the independents or does Y.S.S.D. not know who to hate next?

    Richard Corey democrat from New Jersey moved to remove the word "idiot" from the state constitution.

    Well I'm for that, in fact I've stopped using that same word myself. Yes, if I see someone acting like an idiot I just say, "He must be from New Jersey!"

    New Jersey where the goverment won't call you an idiot, but they think your too stupid to pump you're own gas.

    Well in one of the first feel good bills to come out of congress this week. The Democrats want to raise the minimum wage from $5.25 to $7.15.

    But it seems that the Star-Kist and Del-Monte corporations which just happen to be in Nancy Pelosi's district are exempt from this new bill.

    So what this means is you small businness people better pony up the dough, But leave you're hands off Nancy's "Big Pineapples" and don't touch her "Big Tuna"!

    I'll think I'll go have a nice glass of wine from Nancy's vineyard. You know the vineyard that only employs illegal, non-union, aliens?

    Democrats! fair and balanced and always looking out for the little guy!

    Unless of course you're really, really, little. Than that giant sucking sound you feel might be.........

    No, actually, I'm a journalist, and I work with Québec every day. I know them, love them, and I don't really think they want YOUR support. And really, it looks like you're the one complaining, bitching and whining here. If you can't even use correct English in espousing your beliefs, then why should I listen to anything you have to say?

    BOYCOTT STAR-KIST & DEL MONTE !!!

    And you, puck -- you go after Jersey, you go after me. JERSEY FOR LIFE!!

    Sirened,
    I am Hispanic. Hispanization is different because Hispanics are part of the same Western Civilization as most americans. In fact I've met Europeans who wish that Hispanic immigrants were moving there instaed of Muslims. So are talking apples and oranges. It's not because of Imperialism that Europe has Muslims. It's a plan by the Muslim brotherhood to dominate the world.
    Then they have you Leftists enabling them and helping them. The joke will be on Europeans when Muslims become a majority and impose Sharia law.

    Hey do want to discuss Islamic imperialism and genocidal wars starting from the 7th Century?

    Deluded: Do you actually have a job or life in general? You've been posting every 3-5 minutes since noon today. You're like Mike, who only does that at night since he has nothing to wake up for (or with).

    I'm off to the movies. I have a feeling I won't be missing anything on Countdown with Keith, Wolfe and Dean (he might as well add them to the title).

    Yikes,
    What do you care. You're just a typical Islamic loving Leftist.

    Yikes,

    If you are going to disregard another's opinion for typos, then you won't be following the majority of people here. (BTW I didn't know that Quebec was a "them."

    As I recall, before the Inquisition, Spain was the most advanced western European country. Of course, then they killed, kicked out, or converted (hows that for alliteration?) the Muslims and the Jews and then they went backward. Funny how things like that work out. In fact, the language we know today as Spanish was influenced quite a bit by Arabic.

    Red Wolf: There's a Muslim minority in Petterson New Jersey, amoung others .

    I hardly love Islam, but I am a decent, tolerant human being.

    And as for the typo thing, you were screwing up every other word. That's different from occasionally transposing two letters.

    Yikes!,
    Spain under the Visigoths was the most advanced nation outside of the East Roman Empire. The Muslims when they invaded conquered a civilized nation. After we threw out the invaders we were still the most advanced nation in Europe. Our armies defeated French, Germans and Turks on many occasions. It was the 30 years war that our socirty collapse.

    Like a true Leftwing racist, you can't concieve that us Spanish people were civilized. We got our civilization from our Roman ancestors. But in your typical ignorant Leftist pro-Islamic mind you can't even concieve were more advanced than your hut living ancestors.

    "Well in one of the first feel good bills to come out of congress this week. The Democrats want to raise the minimum wage from $5.25 to $7.15.

    But it seems that the Star-Kist and Del-Monte corporations which just happen to be in Nancy Pelosi's district are exempt from this new bill."

    In American Samoa, which is an unorganized U.S. territory and not subject to the act because ALL of it's economy is based upon one industry (tuna). Their wage rate is set every TWO years by a special Federal committee. The fact that Star-Kist (and by extension Del Monte) are incorporated in San Francisco is IRRELEVANT - imposing the minimum wage on American Samoa would BANKRUPT the tiny island's economy.

    "You know the vineyard that only employs illegal, non-union, aliens?"

    We've been through this before, puck. Pelosi can't ORDER her vineyard to unionize (it's illegal under California law) and she ALREADY pays more than the prevailing union wage and provides union-level benefits to her workers. As for the legal status, you'll have to provide a little more than your word (preferably something other than NewsMax, Newsbusters or some other slanted site).

    Yikes, if your life long mission is to correct the grammar and spelling of others you have found the mother lode.

    That does not make you any less obnoxious to me. If you behave this way in person I'm glad we are not part of the same social sphere.

    You more than made your point. I don't know why you felt compelled to. It strikes me as somewhat juvenile.

    Why don't you give it a rest.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    "Of course, then they killed, kicked out, or converted (hows that for alliteration?) the Muslims and the Jews and then they went backward"

    As usually you haven't read Spanish history. After the Muslims wre kicked out we went on to dominate Europe for close to 140 years. Your pro-Islamic anti-Hispanuc bias shows. Us Latins can't be civilized. We need the the Leftist Whiteman to take care of us. Well bozo I wonder why it's called the Latin alphabet?

    Sirened says he's moving too Europe because we are going downhill much faster than Europe.

    Even with the Democrats in 2/3 control? Well, yes Sirened I can see where you might think all hope is lost!

    Even so we here at Olbermannwatch, wish you well in you're new adventures over in Europe. Post often when you can. We know you will because unless you have a good job........ I hope you do realize the unemployment rate is about 25% over in France and Germany.

    And here it's what 4.5%?

    But were going downhill.

    Why don't you stay here, you can work in Nancy's tuna or pineapple factory. You'll make s**t but you'll be working to support the lavish lifestyle of a lib icon and her other lib shareholders. Heck I'll call up my broker Monday and ask him to grab some shares for me.

    It's a feel good thing!

    Psst. Don't tell Nancy I'm an independent.

    Red Wolf, please don't assume things about me. Also, as I explained before, I won't take anything you say seriously until you can learn to write coherently and stop spewing vitriol. If you would like to make a calm point regarding politics, I will be more than willing to listen to you and perhaps debate you. But until you stop saying hateful things about me, I am not going to engage you. It's just not worth trying to talk to someone who makes no sense.

    Ensign Expendable: I bet that Sun Kist and Del Monte's stock price is going to go up thanks to that American Samoa excuse. SHame on those two corporations any way ... BOYCOTT STAR KIST, DES MONTE, & THE AMERICAN SOMOA !!!!!

    "In fact, the language we know today as Spanish was influenced quite a bit by Arabic. "

    There are very few Arab words in Spanish ignoramous. Spanish(Castillian)is closely related to Italian. I know, when I went to Italy I spoke Spanish and it helped me get around.
    Of course like a brainwashed Lefty, you belive the Islamic lies and propaganda about us Spanish people. I'm glad we were the only nation to free itself from Islamic occupation. Gracia a Dios!

    For my final point (just to clear up something here), it's called the Latin alphabet because it was used by the Romans. You know, the people that actually spoke Latin?

    Good night, and good luck (just to piss you all off a little bit more).

    Yikes!,
    Your the one who made the racist, ignorant, pro-Islamic statement about my heritage. We were civilized before the Jihadis and we were civilized after! More so! So don't try talking to my about my culture. Typical of all Leftist racists. That's why I left NY. To get away from you Islamic loving, anti-Hispanic bigots. If NY got nuked, I'd go out and party!

    Red Wolf: Better yet ... go out & party if the Sun went out. That would take everybody off .

    "I bet that Sun Kist and Del Monte's stock price is going to go up thanks to that American Samoa excuse."

    I don't think it's an excuse - it's a fact that American Samoa depends SOLELY on the tuna industry. 40% of its workforce is there (the rest are either in government or self-sufficient). 93% of its exports are tuna.

    Now, the current wage in American Samoa is $3.60 an hour. In comparison, most of the nations around the island pay less than a dollar an hour. If we suddenly imposed a wage that was DOUBLE what they were getting paid NOW, the canneries would go elsewhere. And that's the end of Samoa's economy.

    Yikes! are you from New Jersey?

    What exit?

    Or by what mall? Short Hills? Livingston? Woodbridge? Rockaway? I know! I Know! The Paramus Mall!

    "If NY got nuked, I'd go out and party!"

    Okay, now you've pushed my patience as far as it would go. New York is an AMERICAN city. You would party if 10 MILLION AMERICANS were suddenly killed?

    You are an a--hole of the highest order, sir.

    sheesh, watching this one idiot provoke all of you just makes me realize that the rest of you are even bigger idiots

    So instead what we will do is impose a goverment hike on Ma and Pa's Hardware store so everybody will go to Home Depot!

    Yikes!,
    Spaniards are decended from Romans. We are Latin peoples along with Portuguese and Italians. We are the Romans. So we claim their accomplished as ours also. Did you know the Roman Empire was at it's height under the Antonines: Trajan, Hadrian, Antoninous Piuos and the great Marcus Aurelian. All Spaniards! Read the Meditations by Marcus Aurelious, one of the greatest philosophical works ever wrote. It was written by a Spaniard!
    Way before Islam. Of course you wouldn't know about this. In your racist Liberal mind Hispanics can't come up with works of literature.

    I wonder how much Home Depot or Lowe's stock Nancy Pelosi has?

    This is what Chris Matthews said today.

    "They're working through Cheney, of course, who always wants to kill. And they drag us back into that same mentality of we're looking for any reason to strike. I think that is the way he is toward Iran right now."

    The difference is that i guarentee Matthews will apoligize. Something Olbermann would never do.


    Ensign Expendable,
    NYers are traitors. The twin towers got knocked out and they are Pro-Islam. They are against the US fighing Islam. The Leftist power center is concentrated there. If it got Nuked. The US would be able to finish the savages off without a demoralizing 5th column here. If I were the military or governmnet, I would let it happen!

    Yikes!,
    Are you an English teacher? Do you have a life? A true Leftist. Just complain, bitch and whine about something.

    Posted by: Red Wolf at January 12, 2007 7:00 PM

    Red Wolf has problems with anyone more educated than he, which is around 99% of the population.
    Listen to him"A true leftist" b/c he might be an English teacher.
    I bet Red Wolf's favorite movie is "Deliverance "
    Now those dudes he can identify with.

    And I notice that most are avoiding the elephant in the room, which is Nixon's, I means Bush's escalation of the War in Iraq.
    I just saw an old photograph of Jerry Ford sitting in the White House with Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney discussing troop escalations of the Vietnam War.
    Some things never change !

    Puck...another "deep " thinker.

    dude this guy provoked you and now youre actually just proving him right and that youre a prick

    Red Wolf: No, The twin towers got knocked out and they are pro the war on terror. As far as I am concerned, the Iraq War is not apart of the war on terror .

    Bob,
    If I'm so uneducated, how come I know a good amount of History? Hmmm? As always a racist Liberal assuming a Hispanic is uneducated.

    this guy went after you because you're stoopid, not 'cause youre hispanic

    Red Wolf: Would an educated culture keep on slipping past the border all of the time ?!?

    "So instead what we will do is impose a goverment hike on Ma and Pa's Hardware store so everybody will go to Home Depot!"

    Only in states that don't already provide more than the federal minimum wage (and there are only 21 states that don't). And you forget that this is done in PHASES. It's not jumping straight to $7.25 an hour.

    60 Days after signing - raised to $5.85
    12 months after that - raised to $6.55
    12 months after that - raised to $7.25

    Red Wolf,

    "It's not because of Imperialism that Europe has Muslims"-Um yeah it is, what are all the Algerians doing in France? France invaded them and brought them back. What are the Turks doing in Germany? Germany brought them in for cheap labor. Spain? Well they've largely boated their way in there from North Africa.

    You think they all want to blow stuff up huh? Yeah that's the logic of many Americans. Most of them over in Europe just want to run their kabob shops and live um, free? Or wait, don't they all hate freedom?

    As for our 4.5% unemployment rate Puck, hmm, yeah there are lots of shitty jobs filled! Such an inflated stat! And yeah my wife and I will enjoy Europe as we do fine. We just like the fact that they are more civilized there-you know, like not putting people in the chair and stuff. They think its well, barberic. I am an American more in line with being less barberic and not supporting genocide.

    Cheers guys

    this guy went after you because you're stoopid, not 'cause youre hispanic.

    Thanks..you beat me to the punch.

    Olbermann Watch [Us Bicker] in Technicolor,
    what about Al-Qaeda in Iraq? It shouldn't be the war on terror. It should be the war on Islamo-Fascism. That's who were fighting. What about Iran, they're pro terror and have Al-qaeda leaders including Bin Laden's son living there.
    If we bombed Iran, NYers would be protesting and supporting Iran. I sat let that place get nuked. We'd be a better country.

    did you end up in a subway car with a really bad smell or something?

    Ahmadenijad just barely looks Islamic.

    Sirened,
    what about the Islamic riots? Hmm. Europe is dying and will be under Islamic control. I say ggood bye to that continent. They deserve their fate? Enjoy living in an againg dying society. when the Muslim militias rise up don't expect us to come to Europe's rescue screw em. Let Russia deal with Muslim Europe. Hopefully Russia takes over. That's why I want the US out of NATO. Let Russian have Europe. Go Putin!

    "I sat let that place get nuked. We'd be a better country."

    So you would let 10 MILLION AMERICANS die because you think it would make us "a better country"?

    You're absolutely f---in' insane.

    who here thinks red wolf is a troll?

    So we can't impose a raise in American Samoa because it will bankrupt the island.

    But if we follow the money trail it does end up in San Francisco, right?

    And Nancy says she pays her workers good so the Union will leave her alone. Does any other vine yard or farm in California get this treatment?

    I'm really scared! Bicker and I agree about something.

    Or maybe I should say "Bicker! WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE"!

    Funny how all the dumbasses criticize Nancy Pelosi, when they never have criticized a single republican in years.

    Like we don't see thru you !

    Ensign Expendable,
    a point of agreement. I think the minimum wage hike is good. If CEO pay can rise 20% percent a year why can't workers in the bottom get a boos. In fact I think the 7.25 figure isn't enough. It should rise to $10.00. These companies can afford it. If you compare the minimum wage now as to the 60's even at 7.25 it will be at historic lows.

    Well if the wine in Europe goes bad I can always move back here, or Canada, or Australia. I am an American that has access to living in all these countries. So Red Wolf, if you are right, and your not, I will go somewhere else :-)

    "So we can't impose a raise in American Samoa because it will bankrupt the island."

    Wow, nothing gets past you...

    "But if we follow the money trail it does end up in San Francisco, right?"

    Apparently you have forgotten that MOST of Del Monte's operations are inside American states, so any money they save in American Samoa is OFFSET by wage increases elsewhere.

    "And Nancy says she pays her workers good so the Union will leave her alone. Does any other vine yard or farm in California get this treatment?"

    No, she pays her workers so good they DON'T WANT TO UNIONIZE! And it's illegal for Pelosi to ORDER her workers TO unionize. It would be illegal for ANY owner of ANY California company to order unionization. Look it up, it's in the California law.

    im just a bill and im sittin here on capital hill

    I take my Nuke NY comment back. I'm sorry. It's just growing up there and dealing with the racism towards Hispanics, I hate the place. Nuke is too strong. I apologize and let's move on to betetr subject.
    Like about how CEO pay comapared to worker pay, is at an all time high. What should Congress do about it? Any ideas?

    red wolf is a trooooooooooll

    Ensign Expendable ,
    These companies are outsourcing jobs to other countries and destroying the middle class. They should be taxed their extra profit from outsourcing. That way they'll learn it doesn't pay to betray your country!

    If I remember my history Spain was attacked and conquered by Muslims in the 700s, hundreds of years before the beginning of the crusades.

    Yet the only references I have heard from the media and politicians were to critize GWB for using the term crusade right after 911 and as a justification for Muslims to resent the west.

    Also, if I remember correctly, while western civilizations were mired in the dark ages Muslims were the repository of claasical knowledge and on the technological edge.

    We progressed socially, politically and scientifically. They remained static and still do. It is an over simplification but their cultures to a degree are suffering from culture shock. If they can't get past their obsession with their glory days and stop blaming the west for all their woes this battle, war with them won't end unless we defeat them.

    Janet Hawkins
    AKA Grammie

    someone's been raeding wikipedia

    Globalization and Corporate abuse is the only issue I satnd with the Left. It's not fair that corporate profits rise, CEO pay explodes and working peopel's salary haven't increased much.

    puck: The funny thing is is that you are single handedly backing two (2) imperialistic propositions:

    1. Regional overrule: Apparently... you are divested in giving the American Samoa regional dominance (3.60$ wage) over the surrounding islands (less than a dollar wage). I say a firm 'no' to this.

    2.Domestic cut-backs. Californian farms are being cut short by businessmen who are, rather than expanding Californian farming, are seeking refuge from India !!!

    Who is for the dark side, now ?!?

    Janet Hawkins,
    The only reason the Muslims wre advanced was because they conquered the advanced Persian Empire, 2/3rds of the Roman Empire and Visigothic Spain. Both of which wre advance. They just lived off their conquests.

    Red Wolf: That would explain why the success was short - lived .

    stop acknowledging red wolf, he is so obviously a troll

    : So is Keith Olbermann --- but we listen to him everyday !!!

    we listen to keith olbermann because he is hottt with three t's

    Sirened So what you're saying is that we should close down all the shitty little jobs and have people stay home? How many of those shitty little jobs are there? How many are owned by Big Business and how many by small Business?

    How inflated is the stat? Is there an overabundance of jobs in Europe? Is everybody working over there? Nobody in certain sections of France are turning cars into backyard Bar-B-Q's?

    Beheadings? hangings? riots? Genocide? And we are barbaric?

    Okay so you can't walk down Springfield Ave. from the Irvington/Newark border to downtown Newark at Broad and Market without getting you're ass shot up.

    Sirened I respect you for doing what your doing because let's face it a lot of people said this place sucks I'm leaving and then they don't.

    But have you really thought this out? Well whatever, you and you're wife have the freedom to do this and I wish you well.

    Woman and I are now leaving to go to the Movies, and it's my turn to choose!!

    Cheers all!

    Olby, Wolffe,Dean, and "The Fugitive from the Jersey Diners" Huffington.

    Is tonights show a repeat?

    Thanks Bicker, For a second I thought we might meet at Starbucks or worse Paine-Webber!

    And before I leave whatever you people do.

    You can call Bob whatever you want! But don't call him an idiot!

    Remember they took that word out of the New Jersey state Constitution!

    But they don't think Bob is smart enough to pump his own gas? HOW ODD?

    In sirened's world would pumping gas be considered a s**tty little job? Well it's sure is smelly!

    Wow! Nancy Pelosi can force phase a hike on Ma and Pa Hardware store. But not phase in a hike on "Big Pineapple" or "Big Tuna"?

    I think E.E.'s stock portfolio might have a fishy smell to it Bicker.

    And now as they use to say on M.S.T.3000.

    IT'S MOVIE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Sirened,

    Yes, they do have elections in Iran. Of course the council of Islamic elders (also known as the Mullahs) have final say in what the country can do. So, that's not exactly a democracy. I agree we did support Iraq, when they were at war with Iran (this was a proxy war of the 80's) who was supported by the Soviets. I do disagree that they turned against us. Saddam never turned against the United States, he ended up on the opposite side of our interests in the region. That is why we went to war in the Persian Gulf. As to what President Bush thought would/will become of Iraq I can't say. He doesn't share his thoughts with me. However, I can make some educated guesses as to the concept of a what Iraq could become:
    1. A stable democracy in the north
    2. A turbulent and sectarian central region
    3. An islamic regime in the south

    The key here is the location of the stable democracy. Check the map, and look who is the neighbor to the Kurds (not Turkey, the other one.) THen look at Afghanistan, and see who thier neighbor is (nope, not Pakistan, the other one). Now perhaps you can appreciate the long view on the region.

    Of course, I could be wrong, and we merely went to War in Iraq for other reasons, like suspected WMDs (which they did have, but those don't count because they were old), or because Saddam defied multiple United Nations resolutions, or he repeatedly violated the cease fire agreement he signed after the Persian Gulf War, or because he consistently ordered his ground forces to actively engage American, French and British forces who were patrolling the no-fly zones to protect (drum roll please) Kurds in the North and Shiites in the south from this monster. Or maybe it was just ego......

    Joe E.

    Challenger, I had you until:

    >"Then an almost identical story comes out about playstation 3"

    I wouldn't call what Laura Bush said "almost identical" to what Sen. Boxer said. Boxer pretty much said "We both have no personal interest in this war." Laura Bush said "She can't do X because Y."

    To use your analogy it's as if the Wii pointed out the flaws of the PS3, it was reported on, and then the PS3 claimed that both the PS3 and Wii can't make waffles and it wasn't reported on.


    AFTER RECEIVING ONE MIDEAST SPANKING, BOY GEORGE GINS UP THE NEXT

    -- Bungling BushCO To Iran: `Thank You Sir, May I Have Another` --

    WASHINGTON -- Unswayed by anti-war passions, President Bush will send 21,500 additional U.S. troops to Iraq and build the American presence there toward its highest level to quell worsening bloodshed. The move puts Bush on a collision course with the new Democratic Congress and runs counter to advice from some senior generals as well as many prominent Republicans. Announcing his intentions in a prime-time speech Wednesday night, Bush acknowledged making mistakes in Iraq, primarily failing to deploy enough U.S. soldiers and demanding more Iraqi troops and cooperation to confront the country's near-anarchy.


    Red Wolf may not be here ... so I may have to fill in for him:

    Go back to Iran . The Mullahs need their daily massage, and it sure would not be the same with out you to give them their daily progress report the only way that u can.

    red wolf is an idiot- i wouldnt fill in for him if you want to be (even the tiniest bit) respected

    i'm not an idiot! i'm hispanic! you're a typical leftwing racist and you love islam! TRAITOR!!

    I wouldn't call what Laura Bush said "almost identical" to what Sen. Boxer said. Boxer pretty much said "We both have no personal interest in this war." Laura Bush said "She can't do X because Y."
    ===================================================
    Then what would you call it? Box says, "you have no interest in Z because of Y" and Bush said, "She probably won't do X because of Y."

    Bush AND Boxer BOTH pointed out Condi lacked family in talk about a specific point. Now for some reason, Laura is critisized for mentioning this fact of Condi's life, but Boxer is not. And Laura's statement was far less meanspirited.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    To use your analogy it's as if the Wii pointed out the flaws of the PS3, it was reported on, and then the PS3 claimed that both the PS3 and Wii can't make waffles and it wasn't reported on.
    ==================================================
    Ummm.... sure that works if the flaw pointed out in the PS3 was it's lack of waffle making capacity. I mean, the entire point is that Laura and Boxer BOTH used Condi's lack of family as justification for ____. So please tell me how Laura's mentioning of Condi's family status is any different from Boxer's mentioning of Condi's family status.

    Funny how all the dumbasses criticize Nancy Pelosi, when they never have criticized a single republican in years.

    Like we don't see thru you !
    ====================================================
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    Man, just go to a right-wing site (i.e. NRO or something) and look up RINO (republicans in name only). Heck you ever heard of Lincoln Chafee?

    Yale singers attacked!

    Was it because they were singing the National Anthem?

    Was it because they are gay?

    Was it because they are snappy dressers?

    Was it because the assailants were from a private catholic school?

    Was it because Bush went to Yale?

    Was it because of Pelosi's Infamous San Francisco values?

    This story creates a nice ink blot test. If you want to know the motive, look no further than your own personal bias:

    http://www.foxnews.com/hannityandcolmes/

    (check out today's 'top video')

    Hannity: It seems related to the National Anthem.

    Victim: (sheepishly) Uh, In a sense...It really started after midnight...tempers started to flair afterward...So, that could be...I'm not sure...If the National Anthem could be related to them going overboard so to speak.

    Hannity: (wrapping himself in the US Flag and looking into the camera with his typical stoic glassy stare)...America is still a country where you can sing the National Anthem without getting attacked.

    Wow, I had no idea it had gotten that bad for 'The Anthem.' The victim says "overboard" because he admits earlier in the interview that the aggitation had already started before singing the National Anthem.

    Banner at the bottom of the screen on fox tonight:

    "New Details Emerge in Attack on National Anthem Singers"

    Link to the video:

    "Yale Singing Group Member Injured for Singing National Anthem"

    The Group's Website:

    The Baker's Dozen are deeply disturbed by the events of New Year's Eve, a violent and unprovoked attack on members of the group while sharing their music with San Francisco residents as part of a West Coast concert tour. We appreciate the countless expressions of support received thus far and our thoughts are with those members, and their families, who were injured in the attack. We urge a swift and just resolution to the case.

    Apparently the group doesn't think the National Anthem played a role in the attack, or you think they might have mentioned it.

    Any chance Faux News Channel can take advantage of to make SF seem inhospitable to these patriotic young men. Those Catholic School Freedom Haters.

    Read any statement from anyone involved with this and you won't find anyone saying it had anything to do with the National Anthem except FAUX. One statement from a member of the group said it was because of all the attention the group was getting.

    Shameless Hannity using someone's injury to make the world seem like the place he imagines it to be.

    On the other hand, if you watch the video you get to see Hannity tell a presumably gay young man of Arab descent he has a beautiful singing voice. That's worth the price of admission.

    Oh, yeah, Hannity did offer $ 10 K of his own dough for information that leads to catching the assailants. I can't wait. When they do, they will probably find out they are card carrying members of the Young Republicans Club.

    Ensign Expendable (That's really your handle? Self-image issues?):

    We are, but we just pulled a brigade out to send to Iraq. At the same time, the commanders there say they need that brigade plus another fresh brigade to respond to a fierce Taliban campaign.

    You've made a real hash of this story.

    1) No decision has been made yet to move any unit from Afghanistan to Iraq. It has been requested. Might not happen.

    2) Not a brigade. A battalion (1/5th of a Brigade) has been requested.

    3) The reply to the request was that if that battlion is transfered, the commnand here has asked for a Marine Battalion to replace the one taken.

    4) There has been no additional request for troops to my knowledge.

    If you require it, I can put you in touch with the Baltimore Sun reporter who broke the story.

    I am currently deployed to Afghanistan as part of the ANA/ANP training mission. I'm in Kabul now and have been here three weeks. Prior to that I was in Kandahar for 6 months. The Taliban are indeed "resurgent," but you must understand, as the media is not explaining it, that the Taliban are playing a losing game of Darwin Roulette. So long as thre are troops here to stand in their way, it is impossible for them ever to return to power.

    My apologies...I got Brigade and Battalion confused.

    Such silliness...

    There's a fundamental difference between what Mrs. Bush said and what Ms. Boxer said. Couldn't be simpler.

    Ms. Boxer pointed out that Ms. Rice had benefitted from her unmarried state. It had insulated her from actually having to sacrifice anything from the war. Her being single was a good thing for Ms. Rice.

    Mrs. Bush pointed out that being single hurt her - implied that she was somehow less than able because she couldnt lean on a man and children to advance herself.

    It really is pretty easy to understand.

    Unless you desperately need to point out how Mr. Olberman makes Republicans victims. Ludicrous, but true. Republicans have some sort of desperate need to be victims and point out - even if incorrectly - that they are victimized by mean people.

    Dems don't have a pla? Couldn't be more wrong.

    They have offered plans, of course, but that really isn't the point is it?

    Bush and Cheney are driving a car toward a cliff, the Democrats are sitting in the back seat and constantly being hushed and ignored. The Democrats point out that The Republicans should stop the car, or turn right, or turn left, or back up, or get some friends to help build a bridge...but no, the Republicans floored it and drove off the cliff.

    Now we are near the bottom...and the Republicans turn around and say to the Democrats "Well, what's YOUR plan?"

    It doesn't stop the car from falling. It doesn't cushion the impact. It doesn't save anyone in the car. But it does take the attention off the fact - for a moment at least - that the Republicans drove off the cliff for no reason and still can't explain why. If it helps you feel better, keep asking and ignoring the answers. Americans expect nothing less from Republicans at this point...

    My apologies...I got Brigade and Battalion confused.

    That's it? No comment on the rest?

    I thought you f---in liberals thought that "It takes a village" and by that line of thinking, your son or daughter is also Condi's son or daughter. Your loss is her loss. Pick a point of view and stick with it. You are not nuanced. You are stupid and a hypocrite.

    Hi, just de-lurking to say you're an idiot. Carry on.

    Condi's answer should have been something like this:
    It is not only immediate families of our fallen soldiers who pay a price, although their sacrifice is greater and more painful than most. But it is the American citizens who pay the price for my decisions. Who paid the price for Clinton’s distractions with Monica or is tentativeness to kill bin Laden when he had the chance for fears of tarnishing his legacy? Who paid for our inaction in Somalia after the black hawk incident? Actions do definitely have implications, but Lack of action in the face of mounting danger has already been tried by previous administrations and got us 3000 dead civilians in the streets of New York City. My Job is to protect all Americans, not just mine and your children and grandchildren Mrs. Boxer.....

    "Who paid the price for Clinton’s distractions with Monica or is tentativeness to kill bin Laden when he had the chance for fears of tarnishing his legacy?"

    If you're referring to our BEST chance (which was in 1999), the order was not given because there were Royal Family members of a friendly Arab nation in his party and the fear of alienating a needed ally was palpable.

    Also, it wasn't until 2001 that our unmanned Predator drone planes were armed with air-to-ground missiles. So we could conduct surveillance using them, but not a military action.

    "Who paid for our inaction in Somalia after the black hawk incident?"

    Who clamored for the President to PULL THE TROOPS OUT after the incident? Who blamed the President for putting them in the position in the first place? The republican Party, that's who.

    "Actions do definitely have implications, but Lack of action in the face of mounting danger has already been tried by previous administrations and got us 3000 dead civilians in the streets of New York City."

    You know, I'm damn sick and tired of hearing the "well, 9/11 required..." excuse for EVERYTHING this Administration does.

    Yes, 9/11 was a HORRIFIC tragedy that should NEVER happen again. It is NOT, however, a rationale for everything from deficit spending to foreign policy.

    That answer, anon, is just as much of a DODGE as everything else that Secretary Rice actually said.

    The correct answer here is that neither Boxer or Bush should have said what they said about Condi's single status. Nothing like that would ever have been said about a MALE Secretary of State. It was wrong when Laura said what she said, it was wrong when Boxer said what she said. And both of them should have apologized. There is no defending it and there should be no defending it. And Keith, if he was really the feminist-supporter that his female fans have deluded themselves into thinking that he was, would have called Boxer on it. And furthermore, if they were real, true feminists, they would have been outraged on Rice's behalf. But you see their hatred of the right blinds them to simple right and wrong.

    Orpheus Pegley,

    Great analogy man.
    More troops certainly isn't the answer, but by a pullout America will lose face.
    Bush it would seem is more worried about that prospect, remember his interview with O'Reilly, he reiterated his intent to be "remembered" by future historians.
    Some might call that vanity yet some may call it hubris.

    "The whole finger-snap, neck-move thing"
    Such a stereotypical ring
    Keith's true colors shining
    Spoiled white guy whining
    O'Reilly's bitch and that's gotta sting