Keith's known as the failed sportscaster
Fired or quit, whatever is faster
Another failed stay
For Olby's resume
Because Countdown is a disaster

He mentioned Newsome's 20-something girlfriend in a disdainful manner. Has he forgotten he's got a 20-year old at home too? He must have, since he was sighted having lunch with a brunette in D.C. last week.

I'd add another stupid little comment about Keith's girlfriend, or his being a failed Sportscaster, his orange glow, or something equally inane, but doing so would mostly just expose what a pathetic existance I have myself.

"I'd add another stupid little comment about Keith's girlfriend, or his being a failed Sportscaster, his orange glow, or something equally inane, but doing so would mostly just expose what a pathetic existance I have myself. "

But it would also make you qualified to be the news anchor for Countdown. Because that's the show's M.O.

Congrats.

I'd add another stupid little comment about Keith's girlfriend, or his being a failed Sportscaster, his orange glow, or something equally inane, but doing so would mostly just expose what a pathetic existance I have myself.

Posted by: MYTVONLYGETSMSNBC at February 2, 2007 9:43 PM

It did...

Johnny,

All day the ticker at the bottom of MSNBC stated that evidence showed Libby admitted there may have been a conversation with Cheney,... . Not that evidence alleges or suggests, but shows (like a phrase from the closing argument of the prosecution's case.)

I tried and tried to change the channel to get away from Keith, but every channel had Countdown on it. So I turned the TV off, but it wouldn't go off. I then yanked the plug out of the wall, but Keith's face still beamed out at me in my own living room, and from my own TV. Keith's face seem to smirk at me, as if he knew he had me! I then ran out of the house screaming, got in my car and went to McDonald's, but guess who was on the TV there as well? AAARRRGGGHHH!

got in my car and went to McDonald's, but guess who was on the TV there as well? AAARRRGGGHHH!

Posted by: MYTVONLYGETSMSNBC at February 2, 2007 9:54 PM

O'Reilly?

"I tried and tried to change the channel to get away from Keith, but every channel had Countdown on it."

Fortunately, unlike your TV, if you go to your computer you can visit ANY site on the internet.

Or not.

Especially, not.

Lots of sites out there, perhaps you'll find one that completely satisfies your tastes.

Good luck.

So go ahead. Tell us why it is that Olbermann can make fun of someone's 20-year old girlfriend when he himself has one at home. Can you not see how hypocritical this man is in every single aspect of his life, both on-air and off? yet, you defend him. Typical.

But how can I possibly concentrate on my computer with Keith's orange face staring menacingly at me from my own hijacked TV set, saying Mister Bush over and over again?

My ever important comments about today's Countdown ( Keith Olbermann ):

[5] Oh come on, Keith!!! No 'get the heck out of there comment' ?!? Is today a bad day for you?!?

[4] Did Keith Olbermann equate a tornado to global warming? I have watched the whole entire Inconvieniant Truth movie and nowhere did Al Gore equate tornadoes with global warming.

[od] Keith Olbermann shown a cat getting abused?!?

[3] Dry programming.

[2] Regurgitated like a parental bird in spring.

[wp] I was kind of hoping for a Michael Savage mention (see link). I would have placed him at second place, not for cursing, but for all of the stuff that Savage would have put his aphiliates through. Bronze, if I was running Countdown would be Larry King --- for hosting a full hour of that inane programme American Idol. That show is ruining pop culture by putting nobodies in the public light. Also, why was Fitzgerald put in as the worst person in the world for CORRECTING a fatality-type list that had people that were not fatalities? Fitzgerald is doing his part --- Keith Olbermann does nothing.

[1] A month of nonsense. I did not know that these things were monthly. When I saw this today, I was like "Awww ... you mean Keith Olbermann's crew do not edit this stuff for the year en Oddball finale?!? ... I mean ... c'mon !!! I knew his crew was too lazy to keep their laughter down during Keith Olbermann's program, but they don't earn their keep for the end of the year speacial?!? A true pitty, MSNBC is.

Defend him? Heavens no! I'm just trying to get away from him in my own house! It's true, he has all the airwaves hijacked! I understand now.

Tonight Friday Night Mark Levin "the great one" tore obberbite to shreads. It wasn't a pretty sight but since Obberbite does it every night its good he got a taste of it itself. Obberbite attacked Levin because Levin nominated Rush for the Nobel peace prize.
Oh "The Great One" sunk even lower then Obberbite and gave him both barrels.

link here

"But how can I possibly concentrate on my computer with Keith's orange face staring menacingly at me from my own hijacked TV set, saying Mister Bush over and over again?"

Pull the plug.

Which is what you should do now with this line of yours that, after two posts, is a little tiresome. Get some new material, please.

No?

Getanewjoke: Talking/typing to yourself, again ?!?

"get a new joke"..

Ah, you people are just no fun at all! Maybe thats why you hate Keith so much. OK, I'll admit it - O'Reilly really is a fun dude too, you just hafta understand his arrid sense of humor.

Well, You gotta admit I livened this board up a little. When I made my first comment at 9:43, it was only the third comment of the night. Since then, there have been eleven comments other than my own, in only 30 minutes!

"Ah, you people are just no fun at all! "

If you tell the same joke four times in a row, don't be surprised if people walk away after the fourth time.

Regardless of how terrific a sense of humor they have.

I have a great sense of humor. I laugh at some of Keith Olbermann's jokes.

MYTVONLYGETSMSNBC spewed: "I'd add another stupid little comment about Keith's girlfriend..."

Olby's girlfriend I can't ignore
The fact that she's a live-in whore
She lives with Dad-Keith
She spends time beneath
In sports terms I'd call her a "score"

Wow, does this man that Dan Patrick is moving in on Keith's girlfriend? That can't be good for thier sports show!

MYTV: Since you watch only MSNBC ... do you contribute entirely to the ratings of MSNBC?

"do you contribute entirely to the ratings of MSNBC?"

No, but I do entirely contribute to the ratings of MSNBC.

Anyone listen to Mark Levin? He ripped Keith Overbite but good. He rip private noodle for his soft problem with one of his former "fans" who blogged him then got disappointed by him. HA!! Lavin gave props to this blog as well.
A real treat tonight on Fox News. Newt is on the Factor, then a replay of Hannity's America. Got to see the clip of The Path to 911 again. How scary is it to actually know that Sandy Burgler giving orders when the CIA was trying to get rid of Osama? Burgler has a chance to save 3000 lives and what does he do? Hangs up the phone. He is a tipical liberal.

Its a real good thing that folks named Factor are busy watching Factor sos they can keep us all straight about those sneaky dems!

The Noble Peace Prize is overrated --- especially if Rush Limbaugh gets the award .

Factor,

Sandy Burglar lol. Some names are just fatalistic, I guess.

Subject: THE DENSEST ELEMENT

THE DENSEST ELEMENT

A major research institution has just announced the discovery of the
densest element yet known to science. The new element has been named
"Bushcronium." Bushcronium has one neutron, 12 assistant neutrons, 75
deputy neutrons and 224 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic
mass of 311. These particles are held together by dark forces called
morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles
called peons. The symbol for Bushcronium is "W." Bushcronium's mass
actually increases over time, as morons randomly interact with various
elements in the atmosphere and become assistant-deputy neutrons in a
Bushcronium molecule, forming isodopes. This characteristic of
moron-promotion leads some scientists to believe that Bushcronium is
formed whenever morons reach a certain quantity in concentration. This
hypothetical quantity is referred to as "Critical Morass." When
catalyzed with money, Bushcronium activates Foxnewsium, an element that
radiates orders of magnitude more energy, albeit as incoherent noise,
since it has 1/2 as many peons but twice as many morons.

Factor: You keep quoting Factor, and I'll start quoting Olbermann, and then we'll both look like idiots!

They should have named it after you, O' Lielly.

DeLay Indicted in Texas Finance Probe
He Steps Aside as House GOP Leader to Fight Conspiracy Charge in State Elections

Read more from that liberal rag The Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/28/AR2005092800270.html

DeLay's Felony Charge Is Upheld
But Texas Judge Dismisses Some Conspiracy Counts

Read more about this too also on that liberal rag The Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/05/AR2005120500426.html

I'll give you $100

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6yeUYBIbGU

During the top segment of Keith Olbermann ... I saw the phone - smelling bit, and I think Keith Olberman di an impression of Glenn Beck !

Now let's keep hearing from you Fox Groupies as the posts continue about the most criminal Republican administration in US history.

Why so corupt and criminal?

That would be easy. They were voted into office by Christians. You know the people, they are all about family values and good morals and of course they can't be wrong cuz Jesus is their man.

Jesus they own. They use him as they please. Sell him into politics? You bet. So did Jesus go along with this?

Oh where oh where have all the smart alec olby haters gone...

Oh where oh where can they be?....

Short and sweet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xirrra_TEk&mode=related&search=

Let's take a look back. You know, before Nov 7th when all the Olby haters were so bold and confindent.

But they under estimated the one man, the voice of a generation, Keith Olbermann.

He lit a fire with his in your face oratories to "Mr Bush".

He inspired a nation, a generation, and they went to work to take back our democracy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO5Wum7NxxY&mode=related&search=

You Rock Keith!!!!

Is this guy really that dumb? Who exactly did Olbermann light a fire under? His tiny audience of 200,000 people? Ask anyone on the street who Keith Olbermann is. Here is your answer. “He’s the guy who was on Sports center, right?"

Who is that forgot tell Bush where this all began?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYjBWDrmRSQ&mode=related&search=

Where the hell is "Rico" when you need him?

Try this zenophobic shit on for size:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200605120006

Ask anyone who Bill O' Reilly is. Here is your answer: iw .

Suddenly all the olby haters go silent.

Gee I wonder what the matter is?

> Mark Levin "the great one" tore obberbite to shreads.

We hope to have a special post with audio from Mr Levin's program, so that all can know the truth about the infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann.

nameless: If John Gibson wants populations to survive he should wipe that smile off of his face. It could be like a Medussa hairdo, only in our times. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ goosebumps !!!

Johnny Dullard: You mean an Mark Levin IV posting ?!?

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Letterman-Clinton-Coulter.mov

More contribution.

How old was Monica Lewinsky? 19? A teenager? Who could be so stupid? Did this age ever come up through out all the months of impeachment hunting? Who would believe this was a mistake?

No way. Hannity was lying through his teeth and doing deliberately to distract attention away from the sicko Republican party covering up Foley being a preditor on Capitol hill.

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=a8a4ed316b157946f626aae57e350637.924308

When Hannity has on Guest are they dumb asses? Do they pretend to be pro democrat? Let's see.

First Hannity says, "I don't want to bring Clinton into it."

What? You've got to be kidding. Of course he wants to bring Clinton into it. He has made his carear demonising the Clintons so the neocons could take power and then Iraq.

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=a8a4ed316b157946f626aae57e350637.895426

What a bunch of chickens.

Someone posts a bunch of clips about how rotten the Republicans are and all the olby haters lurk.

Too chicken to stick their frail necks on the chopping block. This page is that chopping block and all the chickens are hiding!

Keith: The greatest orator of our time; only oratates about howawful conservatives are . Give me a break !!!

Long Special Comment but by far the very best from the greatest hero of our times.

In it Keith summarises all the distortions and lies of the Gingrich-get-Clinton Congress. The nation was put on hold while the "Moral Majority" went after a sexual trist between two consenting adults. A 21 year old page and the President.

Since when is it against the law to get some head from a willing woman out to do just that?

The republican controlled congress of the Clinton era was fully able to demand full resources be invested into killing Bin Laden. But that was the last thing they wanted to do. No way did they want Bill Clinton to achieve anything in while in office. They were out to prime the political environment to move in the neocons so they could go after Iraq.

And that is exactly what they did.

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=a8a4ed316b157946f626aae57e350637.895426

Keith tell is like it is and the Republicans fall like a ton of bricks.

An American hero, Keith Olbermann!

Hey, if you people want a real journalist, I linked to one. All of you hypnotized Keith Olbermann drones do not realize how big a loser Keith Olbermann really is. Keith Olbermann does nothing for actual news anchoring . He's lame. Keith Olbermann sits there and yaps about thee most obvious storys going on over at MSNBC for less than an hour, seeing as how much of his show concludes with boring nonsense about some 1 torturing a kitty. If you really like Keith Olbermann ... I suggest getting a life. Sheeesh !!!

What I don't get is why comrade Olbermann and others say Iraq is in a civil war, yet at the same time argue that the US military should pull out immediately and the Iraqis would all hold hands and sing kumbaya as a result. Do they know what "civil war" means? Maybe the US Army really killed Hussein a few centuries back and that's why the Iraqis can't stop killing eachother? Can anyone explain this? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

"Keith Olbermann does nothing for actual news anchoring"

He is THE news anchor man of our times

I dissagree with you. You and I are different. I am for democracy. You detest it as weak. You don't want the people, the voters to have the final say in how this nation is ran. Because you live in the Fox News world of fear you insist that Big Brother run this world. Our founding fathers are turning in their grave.

You are a coward. I am not!

"Our founding fathers are turning in their grave."

They are all in the same grave? Thats weird dude.

** An American hero, Keith Olbermann! ** - American Hero

Yeah, right. Like Mata Hari, Tokyo Rose or Axis Sally.

Anyone who thinks he's so great, here's a link to an article by someone who, if 'Krazy Keith' were to read this, will probably get the "Worst Person in the World" award come Monday's edition:

http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/JeffEmanuel/2007/02/03/terrorism_deniers_like_holocaust_deniers,_only,_like,_way_cooler

As far as Emanuel is concerned (and rightly so), it is Olby himself who qualifies for Worst Person of the World - every day of the week. However, Olby at this point has to qualify for the dubious honorific of "Terrorism Denier." My favorite quote:
"Another vocal Denier is Keith Olbermann, former ESPN anchor and current host of MSNBC’s “Countdown.” When not making an inexplicable comparison between Donald Rumsfeld and Neville Chamberlain (while claiming to be the Winston Churchill or the Paul Revere of our generation) . . . "
More like Ward "9/11 Families Are Nazis" Churchill, if you ask me. I (or rather, Emanuel) go on:
" . . . Olbermann and his fellow liberal Terrorism Deniers, who often cite the words of “intelligence professionals” to back up their downplaying of the threats that face America, do an amazing job of cherry picking – and generalizing about – those statements that they want to hear.

After all, the statements like that of Mark Mershon, head of the FBI’s New York field office – that “it would make your hair stand up to be in the room to hear that presentation” from MI5 on the liquid-explosives case – just don’t fit the template.

And when the real enemy is the President, and the real goal is promoting dissent at all costs, without regard for the lives that stand to be lost, in part, due to their cavalier public attitudes toward genuine threats, the template matters more than anything – including, and especially, reality."

It'd be pointless to ask any of the Olbyloons what they'd think of that. You know what their answer will be.

And on another tangent, to the Fox News haters: I don't watch the channel, but it should be noted that since late 2005, Fox has gone somewhat soft in their coverage on the War on Terror, and especially the nature of the Islamist enemy. That's because in late 2005, Saudi Prince Alwaleed bought a 5.46% stake in Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation, parent of Fox News. You know who Alwaleed is - he's the slimeball who, at a ceremony after the 9/11 attacks, tried to bribe Mayor Giuliani, and tie his "contribution" to the adoption of a morally equivalent stance in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict - and Giuliani rightfully told Alwaleed to stuff it. Of course, none of that would matter to Olbermouth and his minions . . .

"yet at the same time argue that the US military should pull out immediately and the Iraqis would all hold hands and sing kumbaya as a result."

Kumbaya? Where have Iheard that before? Oh yea, Sean Hannity on Fox News.

Not only is the "kumbaya" from Sean so is the fabrication that liberals claim the strife Bush has created their will just go away.

Apperently you have not been watching the hearings or reading the papers. Our top general in charge of Iraq (you tell me his name) who is no out and able to speak freely, has explained it as civil war that no amount of "surge" will resolve the problem.

Why don't you tell us all the last time Bush asked for a summit between Iran, Syria and the new Iraqi goverment. Could it be this last week? Why wouldn't he publicly request this months or years ago? Could it be that is not the most profitable way for Haliburton?

Iran is able to defy our military by design. Mr "bring it on" Bush (actually Dickless Cheney) could give a shit about how many GI's die in Iraq or anywhere else on this planet.

None of the Democratic leadership has been advocating handing Iraq over to Iran. Now that Iran is powerful enough politically to take thanks to the failed policies of the Bush administration. All the Democratic leadership wants is an end to the Bush Cheney control of this war they have got us into.

Who got us into this war? Why don't you tell me Bill Clinton did. It fit right in with your Sean Hannity nonsense.

"And on another tangent, to the Fox News haters: I don't watch the channel, but it should be noted that since late 2005,"

I say you are lying about this. Any zealot like you who hates Keith can't get enough Fox. It makes you feel like your not alone in your idiodic understanding of what our nation was founded on.

You love big brother comfort, Olbermann loves democracy. You want Haliburton to suck the life blood from treasury, Olbermann wants that money to stay local - schools, health care, college tuition reduction (something you can't relate to I'm sure)

You are clearly a liar!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70wOzCkWN5g

American Hero Keith Olbermann.

Death to big brother. Long live democracy!

Good Night losers!

Keith loves democracy,

you love big brother Haliburton and it's department of propaganda: Fox News.

Death to facsism! Long live democracy!

"You want Haliburton to suck the life blood from treasury, Olbermann wants that money to stay local - schools, health care, college tuition reduction (something you can't relate to I'm sure)"

I love how liberals claim to champion college tuition reduction when liberals control EVERY MAJOR UNIVERSITY IN THIS NATION!! With the possible exceptions of Notre Dame and BYU there is not one notable university in this country that is not totally run and dominated by leftists. Perhaps professors do not need to make 150k annually for working 10 hours a week and 5 months a year. Perhaps colleges do not have to raise tuition at 3 times the rate of inflation every year. Our institutions of higher learning are the biggest price gougers in this nation, but since they are a liberal institution, it goes unnoticed. I'll bet you the cost of college is the number one cause of debt and the number one financial worry in american families today, but since liberals control it, they will never investigate it. Instead you will hear 3 nightly stories on Exxon making 8 cents on the dollar. Hillary will call for their heads when it was her husband who allowed all the oil companies to merge. If liberals really cared about access to education and the average american family, they would get their own house in order and learn to live with a little less themselves.

Olbermann thinks he is the present day Edward R Murrow. HA! Murrow would kick Olbermann in his vagina. Murrow would put his cig out in Olby's eye socket. Murrow would fart downwind toward Olbermann would catch it in his mouth. Olby puts the 'anal' in analogy. Truman Capote looks macho in comparison to Olby. Margaret Cho wouldn't f--- Keef Olby. Key-ryst this guy is a loser.

I'm not saying Olbermann is gay, but he CAN change a 3 dollar bill.

Olbermann is the perfect example of " The Pussyfication of America".

Speaking of Hillary and the oil companies, how about Al Gore and his senator father's connections to Armand Hammer's Occidental Petroleum - and how, as Vice President under the Clintons, Gore presided over the no-bid sale of the naval oil reserves in Elk Hills to Occidental. Of course one would never have heard about that from Olby in his first tour of duty at Ms. Nibbik in the late 1990's . . .

just wanted to say hi to all seen some names from the past and took a mental walk down memory lane.

Mike and Benson, thanks for the inquiries. I hurt my shoulder and kept reinjuring it so the doctor immobilised my right arm. I can barely type with two hands, much less one.

As for some of you others, I'm sure you will be overjoyed to learn the report of my death was greatly exaggerated. I've already been there and done much of your hopes for me.

Aint modern medicine grand?

Janet Hawkins
AKA Grammie

Glad to have you back Grammie.

Now back to Olbermann. So he says that the tornadoes in Florida were due to global warming? Funny, the meterologists on the Weather Channel, CNN, and even Olby's own network, MSNBC all were saying yesterday it was a "classic El Nino" weather pattern that caused those tornadoes.

First Barbaro was an Arabian and now the tornadoes were caused by global warming? I'm beginning to think that instead of relabeling Olbermann's show as opinion, that MSNBC should call it their comedy hour.

Brandon,

I'd love to see the exact quote on the tornadoes...

Mike and Benson, thanks for the inquiries. I hurt my shoulder and kept reinjuring it so the doctor immobilised my right arm. I can barely type with two hands, much less one.

As for some of you others, I'm sure you will be overjoyed to learn the report of my death was greatly exaggerated. I've already been there and done much of your hopes for me.

Aint modern medicine grand?

Janet Hawkins
AKA Grammie

Posted by: Janet Hawkins at February 3, 2007 6:15 AM

Well, I'm delighted you are on the mend!

We all missed you!

MISTER olbermann blamed the tornadoes in florida on global warming yet did not mention the record cold temeratures through out the midwest why is that. we all know that neither weather occurances have anything to do with man made global warming but MISTER olbermann couldn't resist. the onlything he failed to do was balme cheney and his damn weather machine.

Well, I'm delighted you are on the mend!

We all missed you!

Posted by: Cecelia at February 3, 2007 9:23 AM

Speak for yourself.

MISTER olbermann blamed the tornadoes in florida on global warming yet did not mention the record cold temeratures through out the midwest why is that. we all know that neither weather occurances have anything to do with man made global warming.

Posted by: cheneyhasaweathermachine at February 3, 2007 11:13 AM

This is why the right wing is so discredited when it comes to global warming(and everything else)
Climate change doesn't only make the weather WARMER. It's the cause of hurricanes being stronger,droughts being worse, cold climates getting colder ( and sometimes warmer) and warm climates getting warmer.( and sometimes colder)
It throws the earth off balance with unexpected results.
Do yourself a favor.
Educate yourself.

CHENEY MAY BE ON THE WAY OUT !

Cheney has become such a liability that Bush would be crazy not to replace him. There's the Scooter Libby trial, which is close to metastacizing into a cancer that could send one of Cheney's closest advisers to jail, but also implicate Bush's so-called "brain," Karl Rove. And there's Cheney's Agnew-like behavior in dismissing critics of Bush's Iraq war strategy as "hogwash" and insisting that things are going so well in Iraq that we're on the verge of victory.

Cheney's upbeat attiutde toward Iraq is in sharp contrast to Bush's more realistic assessment of the problems that we face there, and it appears he is becoming more and more isolated in the Bush camp. He spoke to the Senate Republican caucus on Tuesday, which presented him with cake on his 66th birthday, but several senators I spoke to afterwards indicated that he heard some caustic criticism for his cheerleading of the war as well. A grim-faced Cheney swept past reporters without taking any questions, as usual.

It was reminiscent of the criticism that Vice President Hubert Humphrey heard from Democratic senators as the war in Vietnam lbecame increasingly unpopular with their constituents. Greg Mitchell, a columnist for Editor and Publisher, the trade magazine of the newspaper industry, said Cheney's recent combative interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer and his later interview with Newsweek stating that Bush's State of the Union address had shored up his public standing were "delusional," and reminded him of the equally delusional statements of "Baghdad Bob," Saddam Hussein's minister of information who insisted that American invaders were being repulsed by Saddam's Republican Guard, even while U.S. troops were overrunning Baghdad.

Cheney's scowling visage is becoming an embarrassment to Bush. I'm betting that he will ask Cheney to step aside before long for Arizona Sen. John McCain, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice or even Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney or former New York Mayor Rudy Giuilani, thus instantly boosting his dismal standings in the public approval polls and breathing new life into a presidency that now seems on life support.

"MISTER olbermann blamed the tornadoes in florida on global warming yet did not mention the record cold temeratures through out the midwest why is that. we all know that neither weather occurances have anything to do with man made global warming but MISTER olbermann couldn't resist. the only thing he failed to do was balme cheney and his damn weather machine."

That's why the term "Global Climate Change" was coined - because the actual warming trend underway is very complex and not a direct linear development - too much so for two-dimensional thinkers and hyper-literal idiots to grasp. Try to get past the idea that the anedotal events that get past your blinders are the only data that matter.

Mike, here is the address for the Arkin blog that you seem to doubt.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2007/01/the_troops_also_need_to_suppor.html#more

I think you may be surprised at the sentiments expressed.

Janet Hawkins
AKA Grammie

"because the actual warming trend underway is very complex and not a direct linear development "

But it is gross and overly simplistic - and perhaps worst of all unscientific - to claim that a specific weather event is caused by the warming of the planet.

To be sure, the evidence indicates that a overall planetary warming may lead to excessive amounts of "bad" weather - things like hurricanes or droughts. But no scientist worth his weight would claim that a specific tornado or hurricane was caused by planetary warming.

Global warming proponents need to be taken to task when they claim such nonsense.

By JOHN HEILPRIN, Associated Press Writer Fri Feb 2, 2:12 PM ET

WASHINGTON - Despite a strongly worded global warming report from the world's top climate scientists, the Bush administration expressed continued opposition Friday to mandatory reductions in heat-trapping "greenhouse" gases.

JUST ANOTHER OF THE MANY REASONS WHY THIS PRESIDENT IS AN EMBARRASSMENT TO OUR COUNTRY AND ONE OF THE WORST ALL TIME IN OUR NATION'S HISTORY.

More than a half-dozen bills have been introduced, mostly by Democrats, calling for some form of mandatory carbon controls in the United States. Democrats newly in control of Congress and other critics of Bush's environmental policies pounced on the long-awaited U.N. report like fresh meat.

"This puts the final nail in denial's coffin," said Sen. Joseph Lieberman , I-Conn., head of the Senate
Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

Rep. Edward Markey D-Mass., a senior member of House panels on energy and natural resources, said he hoped it wouldn't take until
Groundhog Day two years from now, when a new president is in the White House, to alter course in the United States.

"It sounds like the Bush administration, having seen the very real shadow of scientific evidence of global warming, has chosen to go back into its hole of denial by saying that it will not support measures to reduce global warming and its disastrous affects on our economy and environment," Markey said.

Funny how even Lieberman is for reducing fossil fuels. He's Bush's man when it comes to the Iraq War though !

Riddle me this batman.

Why was the first half of the twentieth century warmer than the second half?

uhhhhhh. errrrrrrr. ummmmmmm. Everyone agrees that global warming is man made. Everyone.

Funny how even Teddy Kennedy is for reducing fossil fuels. He's Bush's man when it comes to no child left behind, immigration reform, and medicare.

Britain's respected newspaper The Guardian reported that scientists have been offered $10,000 by an Exxon-backed think tank to trash today's landmark UN study finding global warning is on a collision course with life on earth and 90% likely to be caused by human activity (aka the fossil fuel economy).

Just yesterday, Exxon reported a $4.5 million per day profit, more than any corporation in the history of the world.
$40 billion per year in profit made not only at the expense of gouged motorists and a fragile economy but at the cost of human life on earth.

Isn't it time Exxon is forced to disclose every payment it makes to scientists, researchers and experts to hide the evidence of its crimes? Second hand smoke may have killed many Americans, but Exxon's products are killing the earth. It's time Congress forced oil companies to come clean about the junk science they fund.

Cecilia , Grim and the rest of the wingnuts should be soooooooooo embarrassed that they bought into Exxon's manipulation of global warming information.

Hi Janet:

It always surprises me when I have been away from this blog for a day or so and find that the very last comment made was addressed to me.

I am REALLY very glad you are OK and still with us. I don't have a clue why some on here would have said otherwise when they obviously didn't have a clue.

Speaking of dark sense of humors brings me to your point. I'm not all that sure I want to hear this Arkin's comments because I detest extremism period, whether it comes from the left OR the right.

I still don't see how a commentary like Arkin's, made in a forum other than this blog, or Kieth Olbermann's show, justified such straight from the gutter comment by JTM371. The fact that Johnny Dollar backed him up to some degree also made me question Dollar's own character.

Funny how even Teddy Kennedy is for reducing fossil fuels. He's Bush's man when it comes to no child left behind, immigration reform, and medicare.

Posted by: ???? at February 3, 2007 11:53 AM

2 out of 3 WRONG.
NCLF has been another of Bush's failures b/c it hasn't been funded properly.Exxon needs that money in tax breaks to continue manipulate the truth on global warming.
And Kennedy DOES not support Bush's plan on medicare.
Health care reform has been non existent under this president.
No time for domestic issues of any kind. Need all of his attention in screwing up iraq.

Yeah we are 90% to blame for global warming.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/18/ixnewstop.html

Exxon should be allowed to use their profit to buy off politicians.

That's the American way.

Cecilia , Grim and the rest of the wingnuts should be soooooooooo embarrassed that they bought into Exxon's manipulation of global warming information.

Posted by: Bushkill Falls, Pa at February 3, 2007 11:56 AM

I'm "soooooooo" not embarrassed I framed the check...

Mike writes "I am REALLY very glad you are OK and still with us. I don't have a clue why some on here would have said otherwise when they obviously didn't have a clue."

I missed this. What happened?

http://fathersforlife.org/REA/warming4.htm

Even when Cecilia is proven dead wrong in her views ( on global warming) there is no integrity to admit it.

That's our Cecilia !
Pig headed and always willing to go down with her sinking republican ship.

So Kennedy didn't support NCLB?

Yeah we are 90% to blame for global warming.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/18/ixnewstop.html

Posted by: Complete Moron at February 3, 2007 12:03 PM

PERFECT NAME FOR THIS GUY !
You have to wonder what the motivation is for the brain dead right wingers when they'll latch onto the 10% who are global warming deniers( ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS EVIDENCE THOSE SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN PAID OFF)

Yeah that's right these same "scientists" didn't claim in the 1970's that we were heading for an imminent mini-ice age. I will choose to ignore this. As I will choose to ignore the financial windfall that will result from the enormous increase of expenditures to comply with carbon footprint requirements. Bush is the devil. Exxon is evil. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So Kennedy didn't support NCLB?

Kenedy supported the original concept. He DIDN'T support to underfund it, thus making it ineffective.

1000's of scientists are wrong. Complete moron is correct.

Now "Complete moron," repeat those two sentences 10 times.

PARIS, Feb. 2 — In a bleak and powerful assessment of the future of the planet, the leading international network of climate change scientists has concluded for the first time that global warming is "unequivocal" and that human activity is the main driver, "very likely" causing most of the rise in temperatures since 1950.

In its fourth assessment of global warming, released Friday, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change used its strongest language yet in drawing a link between human activity and recent warming.

They said the world is already committed to centuries of warming, shifting weather patterns and rising seas, resulting from the buildup of gases in the atmosphere that trap heat. But the warming can be substantially blunted by prompt action, the panel of scientists said in a report released here today.

The report summarized the fourth assessment since 1990 by the group, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change of the United Nations, sizing up the causes and consequences of climate change. But it is the first in which the group asserts with near certainty — more than 90 percent confidence — that carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping greenhouse gases from human activities have been the main causes of warming since 1950.

In its last report, in 2001, the panel, consisting of hundreds of scientists and reviewers, put the confidence level at between 66 and 90 percent. Both reports are online at http://www.ipcc.ch.

So he was for it before he was against it. Well it all makes sense now.

The rest of the world is taking ACTION on global warming , while Bush continues to hide his head in the sand and the wingnuts at this site are still in the "denying" stage.

Ain't it predictable !

The Olbyhaters/wingnuts/bush supporters/

WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING.

But that hasn't stopped them from polluting the air with their views.

I'm not really that much of a Kennedy supporter, but '???', exactly what is contradictory about supporting a policy, but then expecting that it actually will be funded as promised? What is it about this contradiction that you don't understand?

An underfunded program is no program at all.

Even when Cecilia is proven dead wrong in her views ( on global warming) there is no integrity to admit it.

That's our Cecilia !
Pig headed and always willing to go down with her sinking republican ship.

Posted by: Bushkill Falls, Pa at February 3, 2007 12:07 PM

Cecilia is the designated driver to hell for the morons and Olby haters

"I'm not really that much of a Kennedy supporter, but '???', exactly what is contradictory about supporting a policy, but then expecting that it actually will be funded as promised? What is it about this contradiction that you don't understand?"

What part of this is not political cover? You sponser and write a bill, the prez signs it into law then the teachers unions don't like it then you blame it on funding. Yeah no politics hear. And the "big dig" was just barely over budget. Thanks Teddy.

The Left's idea of a "consensus" about "global warming" is this: Silence anybody who dissents from the official party line (such as respected climatologists who weren't bought off by the Greenpeace / Earth Liberation Front / PETA crowd - but not exactly tied to the Bush/Cheney sect either). There's been global warming throughout history - in the 1300's, for example - when there was no internal combustion engine or Model T on the roads. No, it's all been a natural cycle of global warming followed by ice ages (to say nothing of the "little ice age" which lasted from the 14th to the 19th century). Nobody's denying that there's global warming - but be very suspicious of the Left's claim that it's all man-made. Especially as this crusade is all tied in to the corrupt U.N.'s (not to mention Big Government's) efforts to intrude on our daily lives in every aspect thereof. Just remember, for example, that after the enviro-wackos on the Left succeeded in banning DDT in the early 1970's, the kind of mosquito that causes malaria re-emerged in Africa. With a vengeance.

And I find it interesting that Olby's apologists sometimes refer to him as "speaking truth to power" (or words of that equivalent) - being as his "Countdown" show has long become roughly the electronic equivalent of the old Soviet newspaper "Pravda." (Which of course, translated from Russian means "truth" - in that paper's case, all one-sided. Like with Keith.)

95% of the earth believes in God so I will ram it down your throat or you are going to hell!!!!! Rule by the masses. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Cecelia:

Several posts last week implied Janet had passed away. One even gave a reason.

Even when Cecilia is proven dead wrong in her views ( on global warming) there is no integrity to admit it.

That's our Cecilia !
Pig headed and always willing to go down with her sinking republican ship.

Posted by: Bushkill Falls, Pa at February 3, 2007 12:07 PM

Yes, Bushkill, we know it's all essentially proven and sewn up like a seed bag.

The majority of scientists are all of one mind on the subject, it's as plain as the nose on your face. It's merely a matter of --someone else's-- politics to believe otherwise.

You can certainly see the truth of the last statment by persuing the utter politic polarization of the subject. Oh, we can detect the obvious and point out that some company is trying to buy off some scientists, the way pols are bought off, but to hold on to our drawers and consider that govt is funding the research too, and continued funding depends on an ongoing and escalating crisis and yet one that is as malleable to public policy and public solutions as nice thing for pols and other ideologues in bring out certain societial changes, is a little matter to heretical to consider.

It won't be enough to wholly accept every tidbit that the Bushkills believe about global warming. You'll have to accept every solution as well, or be pelted with what are essentially political labels.

It's not about science, it's about an ideological litmus test that was created long before exxon started it's thing, and Bush started his thing, and Waxman started his thing. It'll be about who will weild the power to make industry, business, culture, and US jump hoops.

Same crap, different day.

WB is one huge whack job.

Cecelia:

Several posts last week implied Janet had passed away. One even gave a reason.

Posted by: Mike at February 3, 2007 12:36 PM

Are you serious!

So in other words, Cecilia. All the scientists are wrong, and you're right.

I understand.

Cecilia is the designated driver to hell for the morons and Olby haters

Posted by: at February 3, 2007 12:25 PM

Fraid that's your stomping grounds. It's paved with good intentions.

"The rest of the world is taking ACTION on global warming "

Okay, please enlighten us (well, me) as to the specific policies by the government of China (mainland) to deal with global warming.

India too.

We're all waiting.

So in other words, Cecilia. All the scientists are wrong, and you're right.

I understand.

Posted by: at February 3, 2007 12:39 PM

See. All or nothing.

I read your posts and completely thought Janet was dead, but then again I misconstrue consensus that earth is getting hotter with consensus that this heat is man-made. 90% of loons agree that using scientists' findings incorrectly to advance my philosophy and denigrate the opposition, is a completely legitimate use of loon logic. Look at one fact and ignore the others and misrepresent the actual consensus. It is our way and it is very effective. BTW you are all homophobes, racists, and bigots.

It's not about science, it's about an ideological litmus test that was created long before exxon started it's thing, and Bush started his thing, and Waxman started his thing. It'll be about who will weild the power to make industry, business, culture, and US jump hoops.

Same crap, different day.

Posted by: Cecelia at February 3, 2007 12:37 PM

It's COMPLETELY about science which is why Cecilia keeps trying to fight her way out of a paper bag with her ridiculous points on GW.
She fails to mention that many republicans are on board with the science community and are working with Waxman.
That way she can try to continue to try to muddy the waters with her liberal conspiracy and "politics" excuse.
This woman is as predictable as the sun coming up.

It's not MY predictions and solutions, it's the science community's predictions and solutions.

The fact that you are against science speaks volumes.
So much smarter to believe in ideology, as you do.

You are an idiot.

Cecelia, it was the same-o same-o about me from the inevitable chicken bloggers.

Since I wasn't able to respond, I didn't follow anything. I went back a few days and scanned and found a CB had posted a 'rest in peace' Grammie.

Mike responded with a question 'what did that mean'?

It went on for several blogs that I had some valves replaced and a heart transplant. Followed by wishes that I would die to an assertion that I had died and was burning in hell, yuck yuck.

You got me what drives he/she/it/them with this obsession that they'll get big time lucky with the news of my death. I guess it is all that tolerance breaking out.

Any thoughts from anyone what drives this?

Janet Hawkins
AKA Grammie

The fact that you are against science speaks volumes.
So much smarter to believe in ideology, as you do.

You are an idiot.

Posted by: Bushkill Falls, Pa at February 3, 2007 12:51 PM

Well, hadn't you already arrived at that conclusion based on the fact that I don't vote as you do?

Like I said, same crap, different day.

95% of the earth believes in God so I will ram it down your throat or you are going to hell!!!!! Rule by the masses. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

EUROPE IS MOVING FORWARD:

Green policies can be ENVIRONMENTALLY AND FINANCIALLY profitable .

Cecilia continues to be all wet with her views( as usual)

Thursday, December 14, 2006
European Parliament adopts proposals for green EU energy policy; looks at a 'biopact' with South
The European Parliament today announced it wants binding targets to reduce carbon dioxide emissions and urges an increase in the use of renewable energy sources, especially biomass and biofuels. These views are set out in a wide ranging report on the Commission's energy strategy proposals, adopted by a large majority on Thursday.

Interestingly, for the first time, the European Parliament explicitly recognises the importance biofuel production can play in the developing world (earlier, the British Parliament also looked at importing biofuels from the South - previous post). The European Parliament is thinking of setting out rules thay may eventually lead to a kind of 'biopact' with the developing world where biofuels can be produced competitively and in an environmentally friendly way (unlike biofuels produced in the North). Moreover, a biofuels industry stands to bring unique opportunities for social and economic development. The Parliament says it:

"is convinced that the sustainable production and use of biomass offers considerable advantages for developing countries and technology transfer with these thirds countries and (underlines that) the export of bioenergy technologies should be supported by the European Union"

WHILE THE US LANGUISHES UNDER OUR REACTIONARY BRAIN DEAD PRESIDENT AND THE SIMPLETONS LIKE CECILIA WHO SUPPORTS HIM.

Janet:

"What drives this?" Apparently the same thing that drove JTM371 to make his disgustng comment rejoicing in the death of a "liberal gasbag", and wishing for others. That one just may have hit a new low in bad taste.

And JTM371 is far from the only one on your side who has done this.

What drives ANY of this? Hell, I don't know!

CECILIA : We're all still waiting for you to provide YOUR EVIDENCE or what world summits agree with YOUR VIEWS ON global warming.

2ND REQUEST.

Any thoughts from anyone what drives this?

Janet Hawkins
AKA Grammie

Posted by: Janet Hawkins at February 3, 2007 12:56 PM

I think I did see the "rest in peace" post but I just scanned it and though it was a quip about iraq war supporters.

I didn't see the other posts and I'm glad. I would have been worried sick.

No idea why anyone would engage in that sort of talk other than maybe it's a dawning realization just how seriously some people take this site, the discussions on this site, and the amount of anger it generates.

It makes sense to me that this warming is all our fault. You see I have a deep seeded self loathing and hatred for myself and my country. It is the progressive way, I blame us for hunger, poverty, war, hell even the freakin weather. You got it. Those tsunamis, yep, we created those. It's all "butterfly effect". You see it falls neatly into my conspiracy riddled mind along with Exxon actually ruling the world and Dick Cheney as their master, orchestrating the whole thing like a puppeteer. But I am on to you Dick, and I will blog and blog and blog until the truth is known. The truth that you are an alien being resurrected from the entombed body of Ghengis Khan that was secretly discovered by martians that landed here late in the 13th century. They recreated you, Dick, the evil master just to play with us. It's just like the matrix man. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! IT'S ALL JUST A GAME!!!!!

don't hold your breath, Bushkill.

Cecila doesn't deal with facts, she deals with hyperbole.

CECILIA : We're all still waiting for you to provide YOUR EVIDENCE or what world summits agree with YOUR VIEWS ON global warming.

2ND REQUEST.

Posted by: Bushkill Falls, Pa at February 3, 2007 1:05 PM

Bushkill, promise to hold your breath?...

Mike writes: "And JTM371 is far from the only one on your side who has done this."

Well, Mike had anyone disputed that?

Smart type of smart ass answer instead of facts or real answers.

Same old Cecilia, same crap.

Hyperbole is what keeps Cecilia warm at night and us continue laughing at her.

cecilia, your views on global warming can't just be a "feeling" or a "gut" reaction .

Provide some facts for your views, or shut the hell up.

Cecilia will now shut the hell up , b/c she has no facts.

cecilia, your views on global warming can't just be a "feeling" or a "gut" reaction .

Provide some facts for your views, or shut the hell up.

Posted by: at February 3, 2007 1:11 PM

Shut the hell up?

I tell you once that I think it might be a natural process, which is NOT to argue that ways to forestall that or amend the process shouldn't be researched.

That one statment causes a waterfall of posts. Two or three weeks later there are still posts invoking my name and begging me to debate the subject. I make one more response essentially saying you can't argue with the converted and you're going to have to accept the father AND the son AND the holy ghost, or you're the "discussion" is going to endless and pointless.

Two statments and several laughs at the "1600 scientists" stuff which is the comedy equivalent of 1600 rubber chickens no matter what side is invoking that sort of authority...

Then it's shut the hell up.

Ohhhh... please... don't make me....

Hyperbole is what keeps Cecilia warm at night and us continue laughing at her.

Posted by: Bushkill Falls, Pa at February 3, 2007 1:10 PM

But you're not laughing. It's time you got over me, sweety.

I like the biofuels idea. I'll do more research on global warming and try to keep an opened mind.

Global warming and climate change are two different things.

Especially when we talk about regional changes in the climate over time.

That's why it's absurd - scientifically absurd - for Mr. Olbermann to claim that global warming caused or led to the tornadoes in Florida.

If we want to do something about global warming, one of the things we need to do is knock down nonsense like Olbermann's which do nothing but discredit those of us who do acknowledge that warming is occurring.

Please ignore this. Other explanations are not conducive to my looniness.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_output_030320.html

Please ignore these facts as well.

However, most of the temperature rise since the late 19th century took place before 1940, although most greenhouse emissions took place after 1940 (2). Also, from the 1940's through 1970's the average temperature dropped slightly, even though greenhouse gases were pouring into the atmosphere (3).

They hurt my head.

This science is just as reliable as the science that brought us Thalidomide. Yeah and eliminating DDT in third world countries was a good idea too.

I have mostly steered clear of the Global Warming debate but, as a moderate (not really the 'liberal' many on this board think I am), I'm going to add my two cents worth:

From my vantage point, the argument has never really gotten past first base in this country. Here are the arguments; 1) - Is it happening? ...the consensus now is pretty much that it is. 2) - Are we causing it? ...this is where most of the debate seems to stand at the moment. & 3) - Can we stop it? ...a question with far more uncertainty.

That brings up more questions that arn't even being discussed very much; 1) - What can the world do about it collectively, and how? It seems to depend on what country you are in, and how it would be effected. 2) - What can or should the US Government do about it?. Good question, but the answer probably will not be explored as long as GWB is president. 3) - What could every individual do themselves to help? This might be the best single method of attacking the problem, but it would certainly require GWB to use his presidency as a bully pulpit in order to effect attitude change....but this would require something akin to a frog suddenly turing into a prince....which only happens in fairy tales!

Meanwhile, MY question are; 1) - Is GW actually more of an threat than a total meltdown in the Middle East? Something that seems like it could be emminent to me. and 2) - If that WERE to happen, how much would the spector of every oil well in the region burning affect the current Global Warming projections?

Since I am older than most on this board, I'm more prone to keep going back to what we SHOULD have done, so here I go again; We endured a total Middle Eastern oil embargo in 1974 that created terrible gas lines at the time, and MANY people believed we would never be the same again. Why didn't we learn something from that, especially since both fighting Global Warming AND the Middle East problem seems to be directly tied to reducing our dependence on fossil fuels?

I think the answer is simple....we NEVER seem to learn anything from history, and that is why we seemed to be doomed to continue to repeat our mistakes.

Mike:
"What can or should the US Government do about it?. Good question, but the answer probably will not be explored as long as GWB is president. "

The US Senate voted 95-0 including every Democrat back in 1997 to reject the Kyoto Treaty since, among other things, it did not apply to developing nations.

I know that you like to think that if we just get rid of GWB, all (or most) of these problems can be solved or addressed.

But the problems we face - whether the Middle East or oil or global warming - predated the administration of Mr. Bush and will exist long after he is gone.

Yes, there is legitimate criticism of his policies. But please don't lull yourself into thinking that the problems we face emanate solely or exclusively from the policies of this president.

It'd be nice to think so. But it's more complex that that.

All I have to say about human induced global climate change is this....

I think there are MANY assumptions that make the theories open to reasonable debate.....but MORE IMPORTANTLY.....

If one believes it, they should live it....individually.....just like all the liberals yell at me with regard to their selective applications of Christian teaching to my action.....

If one believes the combustion of fossil fuels IS the cause of global warming....

The person should not be driven or driving a vehicle that uses an internal combustion engine.

The person should not be flying in a plane using the same 19th century technology.

The person should allow wind farms where ever they can effectively harness the energy....coastlines, rural areas, etc.

My problem is that those most vocal about imposing their beliefs about HIGCC on me do not live their beliefs (sound familiar?).....

I will not be proselytized!

Al Gore could sit in his home and do everything via the Internet...no need for private planes, secret service gas guzzling YUKON entourages to huge stadiums that cost so much to heat or cool...plus all of those greenies probably used ICE's to get there!

The fine food and support staff need HUGE tractor trailers to haul them.....more CO2!!!! Why? It is not necessary with the web and it is contributing to the problem while holding up those nasty oil companies!

The coast from Cape Cod to Hilton Head to South Beach and around to San Fran and Seattle could have huge wind farms.....as well as out in the plains and big sky country!

Who always seem to block these projects?

Just like the radical left doesn't trust the right because of perceived hypocrisy, I distrust the radical left in their dogmatic, and intolerant push for radical economic changes in the name of environmental protection..... specially when the most vocal plyers are not walking the talk!

I will not be proselytized!

PS....I am so glad to see you posting again, Grammie.

cee
"I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

"There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration’s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

"I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

Today's TIMES OF LONDON called for Gordon Brown, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the probable (New) Labor successor to PM Blair, to order up a full and complete inquiry on tainted and false evidence used to support the UK's involvement in Iraq. This is a highly significant development not only for the Blair and the UK, but also for Dubya & Co. and America for the following reasons:

1. The investigation is likely to happen. Minister Brown has the power to conduct an investigation and PM Blair is so weakened he will be unable to block the investigation.

2. (New) Labor is likely to want the investigation, even if it means its current leader, the PM is tarnished further. (New) Labor will likely survive the investigation and retain power. The Liberals are relegated to a distant third party and the Tories seem to be locked in some sort of time warp. The Tories are also reeling from a series of tawdry sex scandals. So, the icing on the victory cake may well be in the party distancing itself from Blair. Certainly, (New) Labor is for more intuitive and has far keener survival instincts than the Republicans in the US do.

3. There is already ample evidence that the PM was eager to both manufacture intelligence that would support an Anglo-American invasion and occupation and, more frequently, provide intelligence the PM knew to be questionable. The PM has always defended the quality of the intelligence shared by referring to the BDN, the German Intelligence Agency, report. This report raised the possibility that Sadaam had mobile WMD labs. The possibility was supported by an Iraqi informant who the BDN believed was so lacking in credibility that it discounted the liklihood that the report was accurate. The informant was alcoholic with a history of drug abuse and a known swindler. He asked for money. The PM claims he refused to provide this report to Dubya & Co. That refusal is now suspect. It appears that the PM went to considerable lengths to have the intelligence released, but a revolt in his own party was such that he could not prevail. So, the emerging consensus is that Dubya & Co. told the PM "we want a report that supports our position," and the PM went to great lengths to find such a report, however incredible, or to manufacture a report.

4. The UK's efforts in Iraq have always lacked majority support. Support for the invasion and the occupation never seems to have a hit more than 40% or so, and even that support crumbled and then blew away.

5. The UK view of the US under Dubya & Co. has moved steadily in the direction of the view of Continental Europe. This changing view has been brought about the US handling of Iraq and its continued occupation and by an increasingly arrogant and condescending foreign policy developed and embraced by Dubya, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld. There were also a couple of instances in which the PM was seen as holding the bag for Dubya. The Brits were embarassed and mortified by that. So, those who now disclose the shoddy and.or manufactured nature of the intelligence are likely to gain immense popularity.

Since this is all so likely to happen, it may be good and proper to consider the fall-out:

1. Dubya will have lost a key under-pining of his justification for the invasion and occupation.

2. The Administration will no longer be able to claim credibly, although it will likely still claim, that Congress proceeded to war authorization with the same information as the Administration. Yes, the Administration had the same intelligence, but it knew the intelligence was suspect and, perhaps, false. Instead of qualifying the intelligence, he defended and vouched for it. The Democratic Congress will likely seize on this, and the biggest beneficiary will be one of the biggest Democratic hawks, Senator Clinton. She can claim she acted in good faith supporting the president in a crisis, as any patriot American would, but that she was purposefully deceived. Personally, I would hate to see Senator Clinton so benefit, but I can rejoice that the biggest Democratic hawk, Holy Joe, will be roundly tarnished. His choice of blood brother was suspect.

3. Dubya will start looking for a whipping boy. In fact, he already has tried out several generals for the role. Now, he needs a bigger boy. That could be any of the neo-cons, conceivably even Cheney. Unlike some, I think Cheney is here for the duration, but he may well become the mean and crazy uncle locked in the attic.

4. This is dangerous. Dubya has a tendency to look not just for whipping boys, but also diversions. Surely, not Iran. That is more a supplication than a statement. He might just do it, thinking he can rouse all the Six Pack Patriots whose enthusiasm waned as their addictive cause became folly.

All of this may happen sooner than we suspect. If Minister Brown initiates an investigation, he will already be prepared. And, the Brits tend not to tarry. This could get very interesting.

Mike,

It would take too long to dissect your most recent post, but I will comment on a couple of things.

Clinton/Gore never used the bully pulpit to effect change. Why not? They were there for eight years, but they didn't do squat. Perhaps this is evidence that lefties don't really mean it about "global warming".

Why didn't "we" learn from the oil embargoes of the 1970s? Because people like to consume, that's why. People love their material goods and possesions. Even lefties like their Ford Expeditions and Chevy Suburbans, and big houses with air conditioning, that's why.

Your questions about W were incoherent. Perhaps you should reread them and post again after much editing. Sample below:

1) - Is GW actually more of an threat than a total meltdown in the Middle East?

Mike, what does that even mean?

Mike "And JTM371 is far from the only one on your side who has done this."

Finally found some posts from the JTM371 you reference.

Mike, I know that people on both sides are capable of the sort of stuff that was said about Janet's recent absence, but from the posts I read, I get the feeling that JTM371 is not from our "side" but some dolt from your side doing a caricature.

If one believes the combustion of fossil fuels IS the cause of global warming....

"The person should not be driven or driving a vehicle that uses an internal combustion engine.

The person should not be flying in a plane using the same 19th century technology.

The person should allow wind farms where ever they can effectively harness the energy....coastlines, rural areas, etc."

So cee - who takes no actions whatsoever matching his stated beliefs - says that if one sees the logic of the Global Warming scenarios laid out by responsible scientists, then one needs to completely marginalize oneself from society. The result for the majority of Americans would be poverty and isolation - essentially removing that sensible, thinking person's voice from the dialog of social change. Along the lines of his proposition, cee chooses to ignore facts and adhere to fairy tales - one which tells him that the son of a god has removed any need for responsbility or altruism from his life; another that tells him that our current economic system can result in no detrimental scenarios - that free him from any need to act on his purported convictions.

What's wrong with consciously conserving energy and materials and limiting one's carbon footprint, while using one's political franchise and social influence to promote a society-wide shift towards a more sustainable economy? This perspetive makes too much sense for cee to entertain - he requires a balck and white manichean framework within which to hide from real change.

Below is a lengthy, multi-post repost of my last salvos in a discussion with cee last night which he has dropped like a hot potato:

cee wrote: "Well, the idea of a conspiracy of the making of billions of dollars for a rather small group of individuals is pretty intriguing, but unrealistic. I would really like to know why our media and rather powerful liberal establishments both in acadaemia and government would not be able to put together the puzzle pieces for us all to see....AND BELIEVE.

Or are they in on it also?"

cee,

These voices you seek are everywhere - except on the majority of corporate media that reaches the majority of passive consumers. You say that my conspiracy theories are unsound because no one in the media is discussing them; but everyone out there that you drowning rats dedicate your waking hours to excoriate (George McGovern, Noam Chomsky, Jimmy Carter, Scott Ritter, Chuck Hagel, Ward Churchill, ...and Olbermann) are and have been fulflling exactly this criterion that you claim remains unsatisied. And although you insist on playing the enjenue in this regard; Yes - the corporately-owned media is a fundamental component of the right-wing conspiracy.

"IF it was just a matter of economic power, I really think Dick could have devised a more efficient and less destructive way of attaining the goal."

Then you're an idiot, cee. Read some Orwell and get back with me.

Firstly; its not utimately about economic power -its about political power, of which wealth in our current defacto system is a critical component. The most efficient tool the MIC could have would be the set of war-powers weilded by a mercenary executive; and empirically one can see just this situation today. My next two posts will illustrate these concepts for you through highly relevant statements from some who should know...

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at February 3, 2007 1:07 PM

Göring: "Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

Gilbert: "There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

Göring: "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at February 3, 2007 1:08 PM

Ike:

"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together. "

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at February 3, 2007 1:09 PM

...so cee, Eisenhower descrbes the imminent treat posed by the scenario that you coyly claim is impossible. How exactly has our government assured the safeguards against "the acquisition of unwaranted influence" about which Ike admonished our nation? All you can muster in this regard are unsophisticated claims that this could never happen, or that Bush and Cheney et.al. are intrinsically trustworthy.

Was Eisenhower an idiot? Do you "negate the authority of his experiences" at the hieghts of power through two destructive and expensve wars?

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at February 3, 2007 1:20 PM

Mike said " Are we causing it? ...this is where most of the debate seems to stand at the moment. Can we stop it? ...a question with far more uncertainty. "
The UN proved that man�made CO2 causes global warming.
FACT: In a 1996 report by the UN on global warming, two statements were deleted from the final draft. Here they are:
1) �None of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that we can attribute the observed climate changes to increases in greenhouse gases.�
2) �No study to date has positively attributed all or part of the climate change to man�made causes�

"To the present day there is still no scientific proof that man-made CO2 causes significant global warming. " �Human activities contribute slightly to greenhouse gas concentrations through farming, manufacturing, power generation, and transportation. However, these emissions are so dwarfed in comparison to emissions from natural sources we can do nothing about, that even the most costly efforts to limit human emissions would have a very small� perhaps undetectable� effect on global climate.�

" The IPOCC report states the exact same thing- that there is precious little we are going to be able to do about global warming, and it will continue for centuries. Glaciers are going to continue to melt- but here�s a known fact as well- Glaciers on Mars are also melting, and noone is crying about �man-made global warming on Mars�? Of course not- Mars is experiencing cyclical warming trends just as we are here. "

Added: CBS ran a huge segment blaming man for global warming. Yep the experts at CBS want you to know just how �enlightened� on the subject they are.
What CBS doesn�t tell you is that we�re only responsible for .28% - 5% of actual greenhouse gas causing pollution, and what they refuse to tell you is that there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do about the other 95+%.

Scientists pointed out that icebergs were seen in Newfoundland �for the first time� inferring that this was �caused by global warming. Bzzzzt- wrong- the reason they�re seeing them now is because the oceans have COOLED, allowing the icebergs to reach Newfoundland whereas before they have MELTED before they ever reached the country.

Yes, please, let�s all jump on the economic hearse of global warming and flog ourselves for a measly .28% contribution to greenhouse gases, and after ten years of abject poverty and economic hardships, and the earth is STILL in it�s CYCLICAL WARMING trend, and nothing has changed, let�s all then say �See? We should have acted sooner- had we acted sooner, we could have done something to stop global warming� then let�s pat ourselves on the back and try to convince ourselves their is an iota of truth to that assertion.

" MISTER olbermann blamed the tornadoes in florida on global warming yet did not mention the record cold temeratures through out the midwest why is that. we all know that neither weather occurances have anything to do with man made global warming but MISTER olbermann couldn't resist. the only thing he failed to do was balme cheney and his damn weather machine."

"That's why the term "Global Climate Change" was coined - because the actual warming trend underway is very complex and not a direct linear development - too much so for two-dimensional thinkers and hyper-literal idiots to grasp. Try to get past the idea that the anedotal events that get past your blinders are the only data that matter." SIR LOIN

" This is why the right wing is so discredited when it comes to global warming(and everything else)
Climate change doesn't only make the weather WARMER. It's the cause of hurricanes being stronger,droughts being worse, cold climates getting colder ( and sometimes warmer) and warm climates getting warmer.( and sometimes colder)
It throws the earth off balance with unexpected results.
Do yourself a favor.
Educate yourself. " BUSHKILLS

" Yes folks, we just went through the �worst ever hurricane season� last season- the only problem? It was actually a very good season with very little hurricane activity, and certainly no severe storms were seen. The year before? Sure, we had a whopper, but ask yourself, does a bad storm automatically mean �man-made global warming� caused the storm? If so, then explain all the terrible storms in the past- before the supposed �man-made global warming� ruint our world.

Somewhere in the U.S it was hot a few days last summer, yet other areas experienced cold temperatures. Odd? Global warming? Sure- if your an alarmist. Did you know that it was hotter in the 1930�s than it was in the last 20 years? No? Not surprising. The �Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change� (IPOCC) isn�t about to make these facts known to you and I. Why? Because they�d lose their governmental grants if they made the facts known to you.

"Britain's respected newspaper The Guardian reported that scientists have been offered $10,000 by an Exxon-backed think tank to trash today's landmark UN study finding global warning is on a collision course with life on earth and 90% likely to be caused by human activity (aka the fossil fuel economy)."
BUSHKILL

"And we�ll go broke in the process as well. The EU is trying to extort money from airlines by charging a �pollution tax� and forcing airlines to upgrade in order to meet their �global warming� standards.

They say that aviation must be made to play its part in efforts to prevent global temperatures rising more than 2C (3.6F) above pre-industrial levels.

Global temperature rises? Really? Because according to CO2 Science.com, they have not been able to document any rises in temperature over the last 70 years. Not what you�ve been told you say? Not surprising. Those who see the cash cow as their ticket to financial wealth don�t relay this information to you despite the fact that they are fully aware of it. CO2 Science has documented temperature drops every week for years- you�ll find the info on their site.

Does anyone else smell a rat? I sure do. This global warming farce is proving to be a huge cash cow for corrupt governments who wish to extort money from businesses and individuals under penalty of indictment if they don�t comply.

Already, homeowners are being threatened with massive fines in the U.K if they don�t upgrade their homes to meet the �global warming� compliance standards. Businesses are being forced to upgrade of face massive fines, and now the EU wants to force airlines to comply?

All these requirements might sound reasonable if there was actually something we could do to stop cyclical warming trends, however, the fact is that the evidences for the supposed global warming simply don�t support a model for global destruction as the we�ve been led to believe.

We hear global warming advocates screaming about CO2 levels in the atmosphere and how we are responsible for increased levels which are leading to �rapid degradation of the atmosphere�s ozone levels. True? No- CO2 is an insignificant contributor to Ozone breakdown. Volcanos emit Sulfer compounds which break down and contribute far more destructive levels of pollutants than we ever have. In fact, it is estimated that juts one volcano spews out more Ozone corrupting pollutants than we ever have in our whole history.

Ah, but the glaciers are �receding� we�re told, that is proof of global warming. Nope- sorry. Glaciers have always dynamically receded and advanced all throughout history. There are in fact glaciers that are growing today, not receding.

Carbon dioxide, Methane gasses, nitrous oxide CFC�s, they all contribute massively to Ozone breakdown, right? Nope- sorry. Climatologists and global warming agenda advocates fudge the numbers to make it appear that we awful, wasteful, sorry excuses for human are filling the atmosphere with pollutants. Fact is, water vapor is perhaps the single most significant contributor- those compounds I listed make up a very tiny portion of what goes into the atmosphere. For a rundown on the actual numbers and what they mean, head over to ClearLight.com

But it�s really hot these days, how do you account for that? Hotter than pre industrial days? I think not. MyDutchRoots.com will set you straight on this matter.

Hurricane increases are proof that global warming is taking place, right? Says who? Based on what evidence? Why are climatologists backing off their earlier emphatic statements of increased hurricane activity due to �global warming�? Because they simply threw out that dire warning without studying and without sound documentation. They quickly realized however, that the actual facts were not supporting their alarmist models, and just as quickly backed off. Why did they come out with unsound alarms in the first place? Repeat after me- Global warming is a huge Cash Cow? Take a look at this open letter to the community from a scientist studying the supposed global warming issue. Lavoisier.com

Well, these are all rogue scientists and analysts that don�t echo the feelings of the majority of scientists, right? Yep- you are correct. However, as you�ll note in that last letter to the community, the vast majority walk into the global warming issue with preconceived ideas of what global warming should be doing, and they twist and manipulate evidences to fit their models. However, upon actual scrutiny, done by the way, by these rogue scientists- the only ones who actually take a critical look- the models for global warming are time and time again disproven. These global warming advocates repeatedly shove fraudulent data down the throats of the world�s citizens, and they manipulate the media to get their agenda promoted, despite the fact that these advocates are hiding some evidences, as well as manipulating other evidences to fit some convoluted theories they have.

Take a look at WarwickHughes.com for yet more evidences against global warming. But I warn you, that once you start learning the truth, you�ll be confronted by rabid global warming advocates who will vehemently deny that their agenda has problems. I also would caution you that governments looking to cash in on the fears of people will also vehemently oppose you- after all, you�ll be directly contradicting their golden goose money machine. '

Mike said " Are we causing it? ...this is where most of the debate seems to stand at the moment. Can we stop it? ...a question with far more uncertainty. "
The UN proved that man–made CO2 causes global warming.
FACT: In a 1996 report by the UN on global warming, two statements were deleted from the final draft. Here they are:
1) “None of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that we can attribute the observed climate changes to increases in greenhouse gases.”
2) “No study to date has positively attributed all or part of the climate change to man–made causes”

"To the present day there is still no scientific proof that man-made CO2 causes significant global warming. " “Human activities contribute slightly to greenhouse gas concentrations through farming, manufacturing, power generation, and transportation. However, these emissions are so dwarfed in comparison to emissions from natural sources we can do nothing about, that even the most costly efforts to limit human emissions would have a very small– perhaps undetectable– effect on global climate.”

" The IPOCC report states the exact same thing- that there is precious little we are going to be able to do about global warming, and it will continue for centuries. Glaciers are going to continue to melt- but here’s a known fact as well- Glaciers on Mars are also melting, and noone is crying about ‘man-made global warming on Mars’? Of course not- Mars is experiencing cyclical warming trends just as we are here. "

Added: CBS ran a huge segment blaming man for global warming. Yep the experts at CBS want you to know just how ‘enlightened’ on the subject they are. "
" What CBS doesn’t tell you is that we’re only responsible for .28% - 5% of actual greenhouse gas causing pollution, and what they refuse to tell you is that there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do about the other 95+%.

Scientists pointed out that icebergs were seen in Newfoundland ‘for the first time’ inferring that this was ’caused by global warming. Bzzzzt- wrong- the reason they’re seeing them now is because the oceans have COOLED, allowing the icebergs to reach Newfoundland whereas before they have MELTED before they ever reached the country.

Yes, please, let’s all jump on the economic hearse of global warming and flog ourselves for a measly .28% contribution to greenhouse gases, and after ten years of abject poverty and economic hardships, and the earth is STILL in it’s CYCLICAL WARMING trend, and nothing has changed, let’s all then say ‘See? We should have acted sooner- had we acted sooner, we could have done something to stop global warming’ then let’s pat ourselves on the back and try to convince ourselves their is an iota of truth to that assertion. "

" MISTER olbermann blamed the tornadoes in florida on global warming yet did not mention the record cold temeratures through out the midwest why is that. we all know that neither weather occurances have anything to do with man made global warming but MISTER olbermann couldn't resist. the only thing he failed to do was balme cheney and his damn weather machine."

"That's why the term "Global Climate Change" was coined - because the actual warming trend underway is very complex and not a direct linear development - too much so for two-dimensional thinkers and hyper-literal idiots to grasp. Try to get past the idea that the anedotal events that get past your blinders are the only data that matter." SIR LOIN

" This is why the right wing is so discredited when it comes to global warming(and everything else)
Climate change doesn't only make the weather WARMER. It's the cause of hurricanes being stronger,droughts being worse, cold climates getting colder ( and sometimes warmer) and warm climates getting warmer.( and sometimes colder)
It throws the earth off balance with unexpected results.
Do yourself a favor.
Educate yourself. " BUSHKILLS

" Yes folks, we just went through the �worst ever hurricane season� last season- the only problem? It was actually a very good season with very little hurricane activity, and certainly no severe storms were seen. The year before? Sure, we had a whopper, but ask yourself, does a bad storm automatically mean �man-made global warming� caused the storm? If so, then explain all the terrible storms in the past- before the supposed �man-made global warming� ruint our world.

Somewhere in the U.S it was hot a few days last summer, yet other areas experienced cold temperatures. Odd? Global warming? Sure- if your an alarmist. Did you know that it was hotter in the 1930�s than it was in the last 20 years? No? Not surprising. The �Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change� (IPOCC) isn�t about to make these facts known to you and I. Why? Because they�d lose their governmental grants if they made the facts known to you.

"Britain's respected newspaper The Guardian reported that scientists have been offered $10,000 by an Exxon-backed think tank to trash today's landmark UN study finding global warning is on a collision course with life on earth and 90% likely to be caused by human activity (aka the fossil fuel economy)."
BUSHKILL

"And we�ll go broke in the process as well. The EU is trying to extort money from airlines by charging a �pollution tax� and forcing airlines to upgrade in order to meet their �global warming� standards.

They say that aviation must be made to play its part in efforts to prevent global temperatures rising more than 2C (3.6F) above pre-industrial levels.

Global temperature rises? Really? Because according to CO2 Science.com, they have not been able to document any rises in temperature over the last 70 years. Not what you�ve been told you say? Not surprising. Those who see the cash cow as their ticket to financial wealth don�t relay this information to you despite the fact that they are fully aware of it. CO2 Science has documented temperature drops every week for years- you�ll find the info on their site.

Does anyone else smell a rat? I sure do. This global warming farce is proving to be a huge cash cow for corrupt governments who wish to extort money from businesses and individuals under penalty of indictment if they don�t comply.

Already, homeowners are being threatened with massive fines in the U.K if they don�t upgrade their homes to meet the �global warming� compliance standards. Businesses are being forced to upgrade of face massive fines, and now the EU wants to force airlines to comply?

All these requirements might sound reasonable if there was actually something we could do to stop cyclical warming trends, however, the fact is that the evidences for the supposed global warming simply don�t support a model for global destruction as the we�ve been led to believe.

We hear global warming advocates screaming about CO2 levels in the atmosphere and how we are responsible for increased levels which are leading to �rapid degradation of the atmosphere�s ozone levels. True? No- CO2 is an insignificant contributor to Ozone breakdown. Volcanos emit Sulfer compounds which break down and contribute far more destructive levels of pollutants than we ever have. In fact, it is estimated that juts one volcano spews out more Ozone corrupting pollutants than we ever have in our whole history.

Ah, but the glaciers are �receding� we�re told, that is proof of global warming. Nope- sorry. Glaciers have always dynamically receded and advanced all throughout history. There are in fact glaciers that are growing today, not receding.

Carbon dioxide, Methane gasses, nitrous oxide CFC�s, they all contribute massively to Ozone breakdown, right? Nope- sorry. Climatologists and global warming agenda advocates fudge the numbers to make it appear that we awful, wasteful, sorry excuses for human are filling the atmosphere with pollutants. Fact is, water vapor is perhaps the single most significant contributor- those compounds I listed make up a very tiny portion of what goes into the atmosphere. For a rundown on the actual numbers and what they mean, head over to ClearLight.com

But it�s really hot these days, how do you account for that? Hotter than pre industrial days? I think not. MyDutchRoots.com will set you straight on this matter.

Hurricane increases are proof that global warming is taking place, right? Says who? Based on what evidence? Why are climatologists backing off their earlier emphatic statements of increased hurricane activity due to �global warming�? Because they simply threw out that dire warning without studying and without sound documentation. They quickly realized however, that the actual facts were not supporting their alarmist models, and just as quickly backed off. Why did they come out with unsound alarms in the first place? Repeat after me- Global warming is a huge Cash Cow? Take a look at this open letter to the community from a scientist studying the supposed global warming issue. Lavoisier.com

Well, these are all rogue scientists and analysts that don�t echo the feelings of the majority of scientists, right? Yep- you are correct. However, as you�ll note in that last letter to the community, the vast majority walk into the global warming issue with preconceived ideas of what global warming should be doing, and they twist and manipulate evidences to fit their models. However, upon actual scrutiny, done by the way, by these rogue scientists- the only ones who actually take a critical look- the models for global warming are time and time again disproven. These global warming advocates repeatedly shove fraudulent data down the throats of the world�s citizens, and they manipulate the media to get their agenda promoted, despite the fact that these advocates are hiding some evidences, as well as manipulating other evidences to fit some convoluted theories they have.

Take a look at WarwickHughes.com for yet more evidences against global warming. But I warn you, that once you start learning the truth, you�ll be confronted by rabid global warming advocates who will vehemently deny that their agenda has problems. I also would caution you that governments looking to cash in on the fears of people will also vehemently oppose you- after all, you�ll be directly contradicting their golden goose money machine. '

Sorry about the double post. First , no one claims there is no Global Warming . The question is how much do we contribute and what can we do ? Everything I have read says very little for each .What I find deplorable is stating Gw is something we must do something about immediatly without discussing how much we are a part of the cause and what amount of success we would have if we tried to do something ? If this is such a slam dunk I dont understand why there can not be a debate to show both sides and let the public decide. Surely they are not afraid of being exposed with their vast amount of scientists and evidence ? I would think they would enjoy proving their case. And with all the feeble evidence against them should be able to do it quickly . I know when I differ with someone I like to hear their side instead of just claiming I am right they are wrong end of discussion. That would make me a bully.

Sir Loin of Milquetoast repeat posts (whines),

"Below is a lengthy, multi-post repost of my last salvos in a discussion with cee last night which he has dropped like a hot potato."

###
I can troll for pithy old quotes that support my view of events too (I did that ONCE with Colbert and my wife limited my time thereafter)...but engaging you in your half baked conspiracy theories is a waste of time anyway....Why?

Because, one, it is not up to me to prove Dick Cheney's innocence....When and if the powerful liberal ruling class in this country presents incontrovertible evidence and indicts these mean people (supports your wild allegations), I will personally post a retraction to my post!

You have my word of honor.

Just like everything the radical left screams about with regards to "BushCo," they are tales told out of school until your like-minded and very powerful allies in the media, government and acadaemia put their reputations on the line to prove 'em.

Secondly, 40 year-old quotes do not prove to me there is a thousand person network coordinating the aquisition of money and power right under the huge noses of the very vigilant left....Again, unless your theory involves the leftist ruling class as well!

Come on Loin......I ain't taking the bait to stay up to 1:00am tonight destroying your paranoid rants....I learned in my psych rotations that it is a fool's errand to try to convince a deluded soul his/her irrational story is bunk.

But I never conceded the argument.

The quotes remain....

BTW, I drive a >30mph Honda, I like to use low energy bulbs and hign efficiency appliances but only because I like to save money. IF it costs more for me to be environmentally "friendly" or someone is making money from the "cause," I ain't gonna participate because no one has provided assumption free data that proves HIGCC....when that happens (it won't), I will gladly give up my ICE.

Stop trying to convert people to your religion, Loin....especially when you hate it when others try to show their "logic" in their assumptions.

Dogma is dogma no matter if the guy wears a white collar OR a white lab coat.

cee
"I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

"There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration’s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

"I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

"Kumbaya? Where have Iheard that before? Oh yea, Sean Hannity on Fox News.

Not only is the "kumbaya" from Sean so is the fabrication that liberals claim the strife Bush has created their will just go away.

Apperently you have not been watching the hearings or reading the papers. Our top general in charge of Iraq (you tell me his name) who is no out and able to speak freely, has explained it as civil war that no amount of "surge" will resolve the problem.

Why don't you tell us all the last time Bush asked for a summit between Iran, Syria and the new Iraqi goverment. Could it be this last week? Why wouldn't he publicly request this months or years ago? Could it be that is not the most profitable way for Haliburton?

Iran is able to defy our military by design. Mr "bring it on" Bush (actually Dickless Cheney) could give a shit about how many GI's die in Iraq or anywhere else on this planet.

None of the Democratic leadership has been advocating handing Iraq over to Iran. Now that Iran is powerful enough politically to take thanks to the failed policies of the Bush administration. All the Democratic leadership wants is an end to the Bush Cheney control of this war they have got us into.

Who got us into this war? Why don't you tell me Bill Clinton did. It fit right in with your Sean Hannity nonsense."

This is a great stereotypical lefty response. Your first thought is to establish your intellectual superiority (anyone who disagrees with you obviously doesn't know what's going on) because you feel challenged and then throw in the obligatory "halliburton maaan" and " 'bring it on' LOLz." Go back and read what I wrote. I did not mention Iraq being handed to Iran (although that will likely happen), or the cause of the war, or anything else you babbled on about. It's very simple. Olbermann and pretty much everyone on the left are adamant that Iraq is in a CIVIL war. They then argue that the US military needs to withdraw immediately and that Iraq will become peaceful as a result. You might need to read that again, so go ahead. All set? Ok one more time. Good.

The US military is playing referee to a civil war right now. They are a point of contention, but the US isn't the reason Iraqis are killing eachother everyday. Centuries of conflict and a newly empowered Shia majority, who are being attacked by Sunnis who want to retain their old power, are the cause of the sectarian violence. Get a dictionary and find "civil war." You think 3,000 civilians killed in one month is a lot? If US armor that blocks off the routes between Sunni neighborhoods and Sadr city was to suddenly leave, that many one die on one night. Millions would be dead by the time the 20% of Sunnies are all gone or killed. But you don't really give a shit about civilian casualties, they are just convenient to your political agenda. Sort of like the US death toll you gleefully keep tally of.

Ooops...I drive >30mpg Honda

cee
"I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

"There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration’s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

"I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

Hello all! My 'Death Watch' continues. Latest update: I seem to be still breathing. Doom and gloom to the ghouls!

Some quotes from the first site googling 'scientic proof theory':

" Contents

"... in science there is no 'knowledge', in the sense in which Plato and Aristotle understood the word, in the sense which implies finality; in science, we never have sufficient reason for the belief that we have attained the truth. ... This view means, furthermore, that we have no proofs in science (excepting, of course, pure mathematics and logic). In the empirical sciences, which alone can furnish us with information about the world we live in, proofs do not occur, if we mean by 'proof' an argument which establishes once and for ever the truth of a theory."

Sir Karl Popper, The Problem of Induction, 1953

"If you thought that science was certain — well, that is just an error on your part."

Richard Feynman (1918-1988).

"A religious creed differs from a scientific theory in claiming to embody eternal and absolutely certain truth, whereas science is always tentative, expecting that modification in its present theories will sooner or later be found necessary, and aware that its method is one which is logically incapable of arriving at a complete and final demonstration."

Bertrand Russell, Grounds of Conflict, Religion and Science, 1953.

"It is the aim of science to establish general rules which determine the reciprocal connection of objects and events in time and space. For these rules, or laws of nature, absolutely general validity is required — not proven."

Albert Einstein, in Science, Philosophy and Religion, A Symposium, 1941. "

Stay tuned, in case I survive. Who knows, anything is possible.

Janet Hawkins
AKA Grammie

Rico:

You've got to be kidding! "GW" refers to Global Warming, not Bush. I referred to Bush with 'GWB', which is also a standard easily understood reference to him.

To Yesbut:

I think my post was pretty clear that I am kind of in the middle on this issue, nor did I lay the problem entirely at the feet of GWB. I think I also made it clear what a complex problem it really is.

Where in the world did you get the idea from that post that I was trying to simplify it?

cee ignores my identification that CHeney is worth hundreds of millions of dollars that he did not inheret, despite his having only worked for five years of his adult life in the private sector.

cee ignores the blatant conflicts of interest inherent in an executive branch that gives no-bid contracts to the company recently led by its own Vice President - no-bid contracts made possible by a war that this same administration has demonstrably lied in order to commence, and continues to demonstrably lie in order to rationlaize.

cee ignores similar blatant conflicts of interest involving essentially every top member of this administraton - and many of their famlily members - and a wide range of energy companies and military contractors.

...and then cee counters my position regarding this overt Military Industrial Complex gone wild by pulling out of his ass some foggy myth about a "liberal ruling class" in this country. Apparently, this liberal ruling class operated through a handful-per-decade of small, shady land-deals and lying about sexual relationships...oh yeah, and by allowing six critical years of neoconservative monopoly of our three branches of government.

cee really doesn't know how to process empirical facts, does he?

Mike:
"Where in the world did you get the idea from that post that I was trying to simplify it?"

From this:
"What can or should the US Government do about it?. Good question, but the answer probably will not be explored as long as GWB is president. "

That implies to me - or I may be mistakenly inferring it from you - that the obstacle in "doing something about it" is GWB.

In other words, we get rid of GWB and the "US government [can] do [something] about it."

Any way, there are - as I'm sure you know - lots of ideas being explored. The difficulty is coming to a consensus as to what the best ones are and how they can be implemented.

That difficulty won't disappear in 2009.

That seems awfully simplistic to me.

mike/cece
it is really sad that all you folks can't see that i was trying to show the double standard that the libs play by but god forbid the right belittle any moonbat.not one lib would condemn what was said by daily kos or bill arkin.i would like it if we can play by one set of rules.what if a goper had said what biden said it would be macaca all over again.sorry cece i'm a conservative and proud to stick up for the people i respect and not let them be dumped on.BUSH RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike,

Oops! It gets hard with all the Gs and Ws floating around.

I'll just do an Emily Litella: Never mind!

I ain't taking the bait to stay up to 1:00am tonight destroying your paranoid rants....I learned in my psych rotations that it is a fool's errand to try to convince a deluded soul his/her irrational story is bunk.

Spoken by cee, very applicable to Cee.

Global Warming will become important to Dubya & Co. when the EU imposes a carbon tax on the US. It is coming soon, in part because Secretary Rice refuses to negotiate the Open Skies Agreement and Commerce and the FAA refuse to negotiate a Certification Bi-Lateral Agreement with the EU and EASA. The Europeans, who tend to be greener than we to begin with, are hopping made about these insults. Unfortunately, the US really cannot afford to ignore or insult the EU any longer. The Euro is the most traded currency in the world, even with the UK and the Pound Sterling included. We are about to pay the price in terms of fines and taxes on US air carriers and on US automobile imports into the EU (and there are actually some, for reasons unclear to me). It will be costly and solely because of Dubya's anti-science mindset and our own obstinancy.

"Global Warming will become important to Dubya & Co."

There's a problem that's called the United States Senate.

They don't ratify it, there's nothing that Dubya can do about it.

Really, try to think about these issues without blaming Bush for them. You might come up with better answers.

Cee writes "Ooops...I drive >30mpg Honda"

No, we don't. We drive a marvelously gas guzzling SUV.

Shhhh honey....I have to lie...it's what they expect from me!

XOXO cee

(I'll spare you the repeated quotes)

Shhhh honey....I have to lie...it's what they expect from me!

XOXO cee

You mean it's what they expect from me--Cecelia

Don't forget who's the real person and who's the alter-ego . Got that? Got that?

Cee? .....Cee?!

"Spoken by cee, very applicable to Cee."

And also very applicable to the true believers of the left...You guys have your crazy religion with apocolyptic predictions just like my bible's book, REVELATION!

Dogma!

BTW, Sir Loin of Milquetoast....your empirical data is all well and good, however, you are claiming immoral and illegal conduct......this is why my challenge....

Impeachment...etc....I have posted this all ad nauseum...

Mr. Cheney has addressed your wild allegations in interviews with the likes of Tim Russert et. al.....and if he is so diabolical I would suggest those indictments so he can defend himself in a court of law instead in the kangaroo court of your ideologues' making.

But of course if the left loses in a real court that demand evidence/witnesses and levels of proof, they lose the thing they only really want.....THE ISSUE.

There are, according to you radicals, 70% US public support for your side so let's see the indictments....

On that subject....how about that NONBINDING (TOOTHLESS) anti-surge resoluition?

Also, Loin, you never answered me if you agreed with George McGovern (100,000 dead South Vietnamese under the communist north 1975-1985)....all you said was it was all some pirate's fault?!?....

cee
"I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

"There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration’s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

"I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

What do they expect from you...um I mean from me....um...us?...oh, well...

Oh, I don't like Sir Loin of Milquetoast's crazy world of paranoia!....It's scary and confusing!

Wah.

cee !?!...Ceecelia...CeCeelia?!?

Clark Kent AND Superman in the same room...wow...

cee (I think)

"I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

"There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration’s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

"I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

The Junior Senator from The Empire State said....

"You have to have 60 votes to cap troops, to limit funding to do anything. If we in Congress don't end this war before January 2009, as president, I will."

###
That's right Hill....and your crazy relatives to your left say 70% of the American people want it so let's have at it....

No more nonbinding resolutions!
Cut the funds/Cap the troop levels!
Impeach/Remove The President & The Vice President....They are war profiteers and have violated The Constitution multiple times!

I reall think she will make a great President...I just hope she stays away from George McGovern....

"I hope Howard Dean is like George McGovern. I thought I was a pretty good candidate in 1972. …It's true that I lost to Richard Nixon in the general election by a big margin. But that wasn't my mistake. That was the mistake of the voters…"
McGovern (2003)

Ha ha ha I am going to register as a D just so I can vote for Hillary in the primary.

And off the subject slightly....this McGovern quote is a classic....

"The trouble was, all people saw on television were a few of my outspoken supporters out front; and they came away thinking that was me."

###
I wonder if he was referring to Professor Bunsen Honeydew (Bob) and Mike.

cee

"I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

"There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration’s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

"I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

cee said: "Mr. Cheney has addressed your wild allegations in interviews with the likes of Tim Russert et. al.....and if he is so diabolical I would suggest those indictments so he can defend himself in a court of law instead in the kangaroo court of your ideologues' making"

Tim Russert?...please. Cheney's former minion (her name escapes me) just clearly defined in deposition the nature of that relatonship. She identified under oath MTP as being the administration's favored Sunday morning saftey-zone - and only a simpleton wouldn't have been able to see that all along just by watching that insipid state theater.

Why do you doubt that Cheney will be investigated and brought to justice? I will concede to the possibility you raise that some coniving Democratic legislators may wish to preserve the "issue" of a corrupt and inhumane Republican regime as facilitation to their political strategizing - as stupid as that would be; but I truly believe that the recently energized progressive and sincere libertarian electorates will not allow such fools to prevail. Moreover, even you must admit that the legisltive chairmen promising pointed investigations (Waxman, Conyers, Feingold,..) are clearly more ideologically motivated than mercenary.

Cheney will end up in court, and he will be sold out by croney after croney as they are dragged before the bench and faced with prosecution. Look at how things are shaping up between Dick and his best buddy Scooter in recent days.

cee also said:
"Also, Loin, you never answered me if you agreed with George McGovern (100,000 dead South Vietnamese under the communist north 1975-1985)....all you said was it was all some pirate's fault?!?...."

I assume you are referring to your repetive posting of McGovern saying in effect that the Vietnmese are better off because of our retreat from their country. Of course I agree with him. What Dumbass wouldn't?

Had we not left Vietnam until, say 1980; what would have happened? First we must pretend for a brief deluded moment that the abject shattering of our armed forces that had occurred by 1973 did not continue throughout the extended period of our fictional final phase of the conflict - emboldening our superpower enemies to engage us on additonal fronts and possibly destroy us as an global force. Then we must also arbitrarily discard the potential that the desparate position I've just described would not have goaded us to initiate a global nuclear war, essentialy destroying civilization on earth.

Having set these shaky premises, we can extrapolate the results for our 1980 scenario: the same (not counting the additonal American and Vietnamese deaths incurred by the additional half-decade of fighting). The Communists would have held out and probably grown stronger; as they did through their previous decades of defensive insurrection, and following our inevitable retreat we would have spitefully funded Vietnam's neighboring enemies Cambodia and China - just as we did following 1973 in the real world (that's documented as the primary source of the wave of deaths you continually cite, cee: Ongoing regional warfare promoted in part by a chagrined United States).

So in the end, Vietnam might have experienced a longer period of warfare, lost more of its people, and found the US to be its No. 1 trading partner in 2004 or 2005, rather than in in the late-nineties as actually occurred. Who's better off?

...the real question here is one I keep bringing up but you keep avoiding: Wouldn;t the Vietnamese have been better off if we had signed the 1954 Geneva convention and supported the Vietnamese unification elections it decreed for 1956?

"Spread of Democracy", right?

YesBut:

I was talking about the phenomenon, not the Kyoto Treaty or Accord. We as a nation could limit the damage we do to the environment whether Kyoto was ever ratified or not.

Don't be so quick to arm Dubya with excuses. People have been doing that for him all his life. That's the reason he never holds himself accountable for anything he does or doesn't do, and one of the reasons we find our nation heading down the wrong road so often these days.

If you thought I meant the bi-lateral agreements, the authority is delegated. The Senate doesn't ratify those.

If you thought I meant the EU carbon penalties, no the Senate has no power to ratify EU legislation. That power is reserved exclusively to Miss Rice, or so she thinks.

You are, however, correct to advise me not to so easily blame Dubya. After 12 years of his Reign of Nincompoopery, first in Texas, then in DC, I became lazy and began playing the odds. And, I can assure you, it's been a sucker's game so far. Blame Dubya and you'll be right. Someday he may surprise me. I doubt it.

...or wouldn't they have been better off if we had told DeGaulle to go f--- himself in 1946 when he manipulated our support in trying to take back France's SE Asian colony from our WWII allies the Viet Minh. By 1954 we were paying 80% of France's costs for their quagmire. FDR died too f---ing soon.

Sir Loin of Milquetoast....

Uh, Mr. McGovern was referring to the thousands of South Vietnamese asking for entry into the United States as refugees wanting to be free from your favorite system (Despotism)....I have posted the editorial before, right after President Ford's death...but I guess it doesn't fit into your ideology so you can ignore it again:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/29/AR2006122901070.html

The ability of The United States to hold South Vietnam as an ally would have been possible if it was not for the effect of the anti-war movement that emboldened the NVA and VietCong terrorists....Former commanders and generals from North Vietnam has stated as such (I have psoted this evidence as well....ignored).

The majority of The South wanted to remain free from communism....we deserted them....We easily could have had a divided penninsula just like Korea if it was not for "the least generation," and President Johnson's lack of will (unlike President Bush).

Keep posting your propaganda, oops, history, Loin.....I am not converting to that silly religion either.

The NVA and VietCong were fueled by an inept and weak President and the new, powerful radical left IN AMERICA who cut the legs from under The South Vietnamese supporters. The ideology of the North was in line with the majority of anti-war protesters (like the professor) so they were natural allies anyway. This is why I will never buy into your world-view....it is despotic.

Just like the denial of mistreatment of US Vets and the radical nature of the lefty masses, you guys just can't show your true selves...it is a shame because it would be LIBERATING! Ohhhh, what irony!

cee

"I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

"There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration’s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

"I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

The left fueled the Viet Cong and North Vietnam?

Was it us that fueled them during WWII, when they were know as the Viet Minh and fought with us against the Japanese and the Vichy French? Did we fuel them when they resisted French attempts to reconquor the colony the Vichy had abjectly rendered unto the Japanese to save their hides? Was it the left that fueled them when they demanded that the US-backed enclave in South Vietnam submit to the national reuinification elections that the Geneva Convention of 1954 set as the terminal objective of the temporary north/south division that was hashed out at the defeat of the French?

When exactly are we supposed to have started to fuel these otherwise very self-dependant entities?

I'll admit it. I hate the Jews because they are notoriously well hung. My dad passed down the 'tiny penis' gene. Maybe my dad should have been in the camps.

No, Loin, the left was ready with promises of a utopian paradise run by the worker and equality for all! Marxism (the foundation of your ideology), would solve the problems created by colonization. The political realities of global Communism (Despotism) made many a democracy side with lesser evils....that is why ideology matters!

In the United States, prior to the 1960's "the left" was where it belonged....marginalized and fearful..But claims of American policy "causing" people to run towards Stalinist despots has always been the lie....continue with it....it makes it easy to classify your attitude, Loin.

Oh, and the Communist despots said the same thing..."Look who the imperialists have as their friends! We only have your best interests in mind....follow us....take up armed terrorist tactics to free yourselves from the western powers' hegemony! This is your land...fight for it!"

Please, Loin, you could have written Ho's press releases.

IMHO, Ho Chi Minh and his Communist party shamelessly exploited the love of the Vietnamese for their country and put patriotism at the service of international Communism. Those close in ideology to Communism in this country (you) naturally gravitated to the opposite side and saw the nationalist struggle against foreign pirates just like The Communists wanted them to....and through the 60's and 70's people like you, Loin, helped Ho achieve his dreams!

When picking sides, it is important to note what the people on the sides believe. Choosing despots in the name of self-determination and nationalism has lead to many problems....but I know you ONLY disagree when the despot holds to a Marxist ideology.

That is where I am different from you....along with the Hitlers and Husseins I ALSO see threats in the Ho Chi Minhs, Castros, Lenins, Maos and Hugo Chavez's of this world.

Remember, no one seemed to mind it when we were allies with Stalin in WWII, so stop the garbage with crying foul for The US cozying to other dictators that do not fit your ideological bill, Loin! That argument is a Red Herring.

The radical left (you and others who hold to old theories of the realization of human goodness through discovery and nuturing process), are a destructive force because, as all fanatics, you want to impose your views on the rest of us in the name of salvation....SOUND FAMILIAR?

White collar, white hood, white lab-coat, white shirt.....If they are spewing dogma....look out!

The rallies continue....ugh....

cee

"I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

"There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration’s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

"I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

"When picking sides, it is important to note what the people on the sides believe. Choosing despots in the name of self-determination and nationalism has lead to many problems....but I know you ONLY disagree when the despot holds to a Marxist ideology.

That is where I am different from you....along with the Hitlers and Husseins I ALSO see threats in the Ho Chi Minhs, Castros, Lenins, Maos and Hugo Chavez's of this world.

Remember, no one seemed to mind it when we were allies with Stalin in WWII, so stop the garbage with crying foul for The US cozying to other dictators that do not fit your ideological bill, Loin! That argument is a Red Herring."

Are you trying to see how many times you can contradict yourself in three short sentences?

"Remember, no one seemed to mind it when we were allies with Stalin in WWII, so stop the garbage with crying foul for The US cozying to other dictators that do not fit your ideological bill, Loin! That argument is a Red Herring."

cee sets yet another vapid rule to keep devastating historical facts out of his face. Sorry, but I do not recognize the force or logic of your edict.

We did not create Stalin - unless you count the indirect influence exerted by our military attacks on Russia in 1919 and 1920, and the ceaseless suberfuge we exercised during the first half of the 20th century. These unneccesary pressures promoted the centralization of power in Russia and set the stage for the Cold War.

Had we not been allied with the Soviet Union during WWII we very likely would have lost, or at best been forced to accept a draw at the end after losing perhaps millions of troops. The Eastern Front sapped the armies of Hitler to a degree dwarfing the damage we did in Western Europe.

We created Saddam; we created Osama; we've set up brutal dictators and well-heeled religious fanatics in the name of preserving Democracy. That's just plain stupid.

"We created Saddam; we created Osama; we've set up brutal dictators and well-heeled religious fanatics in the name of preserving Democracy."

Again, the lack of Marxists in your list proves my point....and "created" is such a ridiculous charge....nicely simplistic and fits into your argument...but the complicated facts of diplomacy and policy demand more nuance.

In the context of Vietnam, your cliams that imperialism was the sole cause of the conflict ignores the actions and strategies of ideologues....again these same ideologues who hold beliefs close to your own. I am just making observations. You seem to not want to address that part of the argument.

cee

"I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

"There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration’s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

"I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

That's right we created Hitler too.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beef Turd,

We did not create Saddam.
We did not create Osama.

You are a dumb ass.

Well I sure hope that every bodys having s super Super Bowl Sunday I know its really really COLD here but Im looking forward to the game this evening & since the Browns arent playing I guess the Bears will be good enough for me tonight although my fatherinlaw comes over & hes from Baltimore so hes a Colts fan even though the left & I guess well just have to put up with him. His bringing the beer tho so wed better be nice. Hah Hah. Things dont look to good right now with Mccain really not doing very well on the Stephanophalus program today & not making a good argument at all & Hegal looking pretty good in the show & I just wish Pres Bush had someone who can argue his point well cause its a good point but Mccain cant do it anymore so Im not sure whatll happen but I do know that if Hegal werent such a traitor wed probably be winning in Iraq now & on our way to Iran cause Hegal can talk even if he doesnt say stuff that helps Pres Bush tho he did once & so doesnt help our troops or America. Sometimes I think the RATS arent DeomcRATS cause they just do what they always do --- boo --- but its the Repubs going all over & causing trouble for Pres Bush cause theyre not doing what their supposed to be doing & what theyve been doing & are running all around the ship thats in rough waters like RATS do on such a ship. What happened? I dont know but I bet the Drivebye Media had some thing to do with it & maybe even money changed pockets well its just to bad Americas been cheated like this & hope Pres Bush strikes back like a mad COBRA cause he should be mad that people treat him this way well enjoy the Super Bowl cause its back to the salt factory tomorrow.

"Again, the lack of Marxists in your list proves my point....and "created" is such a ridiculous charge....nicely simplistic and fits into your argument...but the complicated facts of diplomacy and policy demand more nuance."

Ok, you hyper-literate poppinjay: no one "created" Saddam or Osama - they are both the products of evolution in the long view and sexual reproduction in the short. But you morons cannot deny the fact that generous American patronage gave them their boosts to power - Saddam following the Iranian hostage crisis when we petulantly wanted someone to get back at the Iranians for us; and Osama when we armed, funded, and trained the Mujahedin against the Soviets. Manuel Noriega was another.

And so was Ho Chi Minh, as I have mentioned in numerous posts to you (so much for me not mentioning a Marxist). Ho Chi Minh was an official OSS agent in 1944 and 1945 - recruited with his guerrilla following by agent Archimedes Patti, who was dispatched to SE Asia from Normandy by Wild Bill Donovan himself.

Following the war Ho made numerous attempts to enter into a patron/client relationship with the US, but was rebuffed at the demands of DeGaulle, who threatened to enter the Soviet sphere of influence if we hindered France in any way from recolonizing Vietnam. Look it up.

More nuance - you f---ing hypocrite comic-book faith-healer.

Rudy,

You kidding, right? You have to be just someone on my side creating a caricature to cast the pro-war right wing as idiots. Otherwise, hoo boy!

Geeze, from all the anti-KO comments I've skimmed here, you would think the FOX(no)News Network's viewership drops during KO's time on air, and the average IQ of KO's viewship dramatically drops when they tune in.

What's wrong with all ya'll? You can't stand to have your (lying, dry-drunk, anti-Christ, idiot) President called to task for swearing to protect us and the Constitution, and then doing neither?
What we don't need is a President who gets on-the-job training.

What have you guys been smoking?

It's about Olbermann and his inability to tell the truth, and the lies and biases of his so-called "news" program.

Hey Rudy, WOw, I never thought of that before! It's all Hagel's fault!

inability to tell the truth ....

Sure sounds like Bush to me ....

No Kurt, don't you see? Hagel is the enemy....Olbermann is the enemy....Murtha is the enemy....etc., etc. etc.

Hagel may be the enemy, but Bush is the enema!

Can any of you Olby haters tell me who's winning the Super Bowl, since MSNBC won't mention it?

Oh wait, sorry! Your sets are probably all stuck on MSNBC too, otherwise you would just change the channel and forget about bashing Olbermann, wouldn't you?

Oh wait, sorry! Your sets are probably all stuck on MSNBC too, otherwise you would just change the channel and forget about bashing Olbermann, wouldn't you?

Posted by: MYTVONLYGETSMSNBC at February 4, 2007 10:39 PM

Now what fun would that be?

Apparently, we are all the enemy. accroding to cee, the American left has be the primary source of motivation for every foreign enemy the US has faced since the beginning of the Cold War. I keep telling him they should therefore go to open war against us, but he is too much of a chickenshit.

I believe in global warming and I'm very concerned about it as are most people I know, conservatives and liberals alike. But from every single thing I've heard, these tornadoes in Florida weren't the result of Global Warming but of El Nino weather patterns which have nothing to do with Global Warning. Keith was just flat-out wrong on Friday night about their true cause. But I won't hold my breath waiting for a correction from him.