How long until Keith Olbermann leaves MSNBC because his contract went up ?

"He went out of his way to embrace Arkin's arguments as "valid". Cogent. Correct. True."

That's only ONE way to define "valid". Here's another (from Webster's dictionary): "being at once relevant and meaningful".

Olbermann can say it is "valid" in this context because it is RELEVANT (criticism about a current and ongoing situation) and MEANINGFUL without saying it is TRUE or CORRECT.

Yeah, troops are dummies who are getting obscene amentities despite "every rape and murder". That's really "meaningful". I didn't see Allard saying "valid". Will you stop at nothing to defend the undefensible?

Ensign Expendable: Your connotation of the word valid cannot be true, for this reason: When Keith Olbermann said "valid criticism" of the piece, yet Bill O' Reilly's perceptio was not a "valid" (with your definition) perception of Bill O' Reilly's views. Bill O' Reilly was proclaimed as "paranoid ravings about NBC News". Not "valid" despite the fact that Bill O' Reilly was topical, as well.

Will you stop at nothing to smear the ONLY person who GIVES A f--- about this CLUSTERf--- that the Bush Administration dumped us into?

I'm sick of this CRAP. You LIE about Nancy Pelosi. You LIE about Barack Obama. You LIE AND LIE about ANYONE who says word one that runs counter to your worldview. ANYTHING to salve your pride and shut Keith Olbermann up. You DISMISS legitimate counterarguments because they're "lame" or "unverifiable" or "partisan", yet use the SAME UNVERIFIABLE AND PARTISAN sources to defend your positions.

> I'm sick of this CRAP.

Lucky for you, a cure has just been developed. Leave.

Man, this guy sucks...

A man can be best judged by his words. And KO has a script that every night he has to approve, so his words are not faux pas. So KO knew what he said. He tries to pretend he is not anti american or anti troop because he would turn off half his 800k viewers if it was brought to light. Well fat man, your words have indicted you!

I decided to have a look at the O' Reilly/Allard debate and I have got to say, Keith Olbermann should not have placed Bil O' Reilly as first place, worst person in th worl.

He should have gotten Bronze.

He was not thee worst for the interview, but I do think that Bill O' Reilly was trying to start a conflict of some kind with NBC. It is truly apparent.

As for Keith Olberman agreeing with this awfull column?!? Like I initiall had said: When is Keith Olbermann leaving television, already ??? I have had enough of this crooked journalist's cowardice. Huh!!!

Olbermann has tripped himself up with his hatred of O'Reilly: Did the San Antonio Express News also "force words" from Allard's pen?

Were they "swine" for "using" Allard?

If O'Reilly is to (somehow) be condemned for having Col. Allard on, how about the Express News?

Why single out O'Reilly and not the newspaper?

Furthermore, Allard freely appeared on the show. He wasn't dragged on. Although he clearly had some difficulty speaking, he was lucid and his words coherent and, dare I say, articulate.

What's Olbermann's beef?

This is really despicable. I know that the Right has taken a number of very difficult blows in the last couple of years, and I know that hurts. To have a philosophy important to you being so widely rejected is unsettling, particularly when that philosophy showed some signs of waxing. But to smear someone with the unpatriotic label simply because he or she disagrees with you, or to try support your own cause by arguing "I am right because I am patriotic," is truly beneath contempt. "McCarthy" and "McCarthyism" are too frequently and inappropriately used these days, but this really smacks of that era, of those despised tactics. To do what has been done in this snippet is to admit to the entire world that you have no susbtantive arguments left, that you have lost. It almost makes me feel pity for someone at the same time I am disgusted by them. This really needs to stop.

"know that the Right has taken "

The Right?

This is one person making the charge against Olbermann. Direct your comments at that person.

I can find people on the left claiming that Bush engineered 9/11.

Does that mean "the left" is smearing Bush?

If repeating Olbermann's words constitutes a smear, then you have truly begun to understand Olbermann.

> But to smear someone with the unpatriotic label

Funny, but the first person to describe it this way is you, M Schultz. I never claimed anyone in this kerfuffle was unpatriotic, but if that's what you take from Olbermann's words, that's your call.

when is Olby going to wake up and realize that no one takes this guy seriously-people know him as the dude that got fired from ESPN, not some "serious" newscaster,he's a joke to cable news.

The money that was handed out from the back of trucks was given to mercaneries. Arkin is 100% correct in his statement.

The money that was handed out from the back of trucks was given to mercaneries. Arkin is 100% correct in his statement

He wasn't referring to that. He said "So, we pay the soldiers a decent wage, take care of their families, provide them with housing and medical care and vast social support systems and ship obscene amenities into the war zone for them, we support them in every possible way, and their attitude is that we should in addition roll over and play dead, defer to the military and the generals and let them fight their war, and give up our rights and responsibilities to speak up because they are above society? The recent NBC report is just an ugly reminder of the price we pay for a mercenary - oops sorry, volunteer - force that thinks it is doing the dirty work."

He referred to American soldiers. Supplied, paid for, and commisioned by the government to serve the U.S. They're not mercenaries.

As the republicans become more and more irrelevant, they are also making up more ridiculous excuses for global warming.
As the world prepares to make adjustments and formulate "green" policies, our ignorant right wing just gets battier and battier.
The most recent excuse for global warming was by Republican CA congressman Dana Rohrabacher who said, " Global Warming May Have Been Caused By Dinosaur Flatulence."

We already have a president who is the laughing stock of the world. Apparently, the GOP members in congress are even trying to outdue Chimpy.

We already have a president who is the laughing stock of the world. Apparently, the GOP members in congress are even trying to outdue Chimpy.

What do the republicans in the Congress have to do with this?

The soldiers in Iraq should be wearing the uniform of all the MNC's that led us into this war. Our soldiers.. er cannon fodder were sold to this warm pile of spit POS and he offered them up to his billionaire buddies. They are mercaneries.. and they have no say in it.. It is the most distrubing thing this country has seen in 60 years.

" Global Warming May Have Been Caused By Dinosaur Flatulence."

the point of that statement was to illustrate that we dont know all the causes of global warming and to the degree they affect the enviroment (i.e. cow releasing methane versus carbon released from cars) His point is for people to stop saying they know exactly whats the PRIMARY cause when no one really knows the severity of all the causes.

POLL: Only 13 Percent Of Congressional Republicans Believe In Man-Made Global Warming

National Journal has released a new "Congressional Insiders Poll," which surveyed 113 members of Congress " 10 Senate Democrats, 48 House Democrats, 10 Senate Republicans, and 45 House Republicans " about their positions on global warming.

The results were startling. Only 13 percent of congressional Republicans say they believe that human activity is causing global warming, compared to 95 percent of congressional Democrats. Moreover, the number of Republicans who believe in human-induced global warming has actually dropped since April 2006, when the number was 23 percent.

Question: Do you think it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Earth is warming because of man-made problems?

The last Congressional Insiders Poll on global warming was in April 2006. Subsequently:

In June 2006, the National Academy of Sciences, an independent organization created by Congress to provide scientific guidance, unequivocally concluded that natural causes cannot explain the unprecedented warmth over the last 400 years. Rather, "human activities are responsible for much of the recent warming," the report states.

In February 2007, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change concluded for the first time that global warming is "unequivocal" and that human activity is the main driver, "very likely" causing most of the rise in temperatures since 1950.

Nevertheless, belief in global warming among Republicans in Congress dropped by 10 points.

OUR BACKWARD REPUBLICANS ARE VERY SIMILAR TO THE JETHROS AT THIS SITE.

"They are mercaneries.. and they have no say in it.. "

My, what a charming post.

I liked it better when you were wanting everyone you didn't like to die horrible deaths.

You're a very very strange person.

The soldiers in Iraq should be wearing the uniform of all the MNC's that led us into this war. Our soldiers.. er cannon fodder were sold to this warm pile of spit POS and he offered them up to his billionaire buddies. They are mercaneries.. and they have no say in it.. It is the most distrubing thing this country has seen in 60 years.

first of all, by calling our soldiers mercaneries, you have proven a theory i have about you. Thank you.

Secondly, while your comment about soldiers not having a choice in this war is noble and reaking of virtuous insight, how often have soldiers ever had any say in what wars they fought? By your logic, all soldiers of all governments in the history of the world have been mercenaries. If you believe that, well, then I'm just sad for you.

The obvious purpose of this site is for the right wing to take out their venom on the ways things are going in this country, so instead of attacking the actually ones responsible for the downward cycle, KO becomes their bullseye.
What? You think the Olbyhaters are going to blame the Congress that's been in charge the past 6 years, or the executive branch ?

Keith Olbermann is responsible for failure of the Iraq War, gigantic national debt, no energy policy, the culture of corruption etc, etc.

Do you think it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Earth is warming because of man-made problems?

reasonable doubt may be the key words there. For instance I absolutly believe global warming is occuring and that human forces are contributing to it to a degree. It is both a question of the degree to which we are contributing (in my mind anywhere from 20 to 95%) as opposed to other forces that may be contributing more, such as those unknown forces that made the middle ages warmer? It is foolish to say global warming is not affected by mankind, but it is equally foolish to say we are the sole contributers when there is still a great deal about the earth's climate patterns we don't understand.

"The obvious purpose of this site is for the right wing to take "

Would you care to comment on or defend the program done by Keith Olbermann?

The only people here who are changing the topic or diverting the debate are folks like you who opine on a dozen subjects that have nothing to do with Keith Olbermann or Countdown.

If you can't defend his "news reporting" or the "news show" then say so. Don't raise other unrelated topics that do nothing bu sidetrack the discussion.

Obviously, you can; it's not my blog. But it's indicative of your inability to defend the subject at hand.

"your inability to defend the subject at hand".

I have a hard time understanding you people's need to see every controversial thing said by Olbermann 'defended'. It's as if you think all you need to do is succeed in convincing Olbermann watchers that he is not perfect, and they will magically become Olby haters like yourselves.

So he has some flaws. We accept that, and still like the show. He states a point of view that sorely NEEDS to be aired, flaws and all.

Show me someone without some character flaws, and I'll show you someone who isn't human.

"And while he has left indirect implications that disparage US troops, Keith Olbermann has been careful to avoid leaving fingerprints..."Posted by johnny dollar at February 10, 2007 4:19 PM

The one "disparaging" our troops is you!

I can't think of any worse way to show no respect for our troops than to defend an administration that lied to get them in Iraq in the first place. Sent them there on the cheap, "you fight a war with what you have".

Saddam had nothing to do with 911. Yet the same Fox News you defend went out of it's way to repeat the talking points day in and day out that linked Saddam with Bin Laden. The Cheney orchestrated lies about Saddam seeking parts to build a nuke, Fox News was there to spread this bullsh-t also.

Then came the mishandling of the war once we were there. The disbanding of the Iraqi army was done against the wishes of generals advising Rumsfeld. The use Abu Ghriav prison, the same prison Bush sighted in his bid for office as a shrine to human rights violations, was used for torture and humiliation and our troops were allowed to document it all with camcorders to send out to the world to see how ignorantly we treated men who were yet to stand trial for a crime. Great example of the ignorant arrogant mentality you defend and demonstrate daily with your pathetic petty trivial minutia that twist into tales for your fellow democracy ignorant cohorts to pretend has significance.

The invitation to attack our troops by the draft dodging president with his now famous "bring em on" comment. Any fool that defends this disparages our troops!

The list is long. $12 billion unaccounted for in expenditures yet services to vets were cut back during the war. You defend the president does this, you disparage our troops!

The despicable use of lies by Fox News is right in line with yours. You are coward that fakes like you have leg to stand on. Fox News is the cancer and you my friend are merely the puss that oozes from it.

You're an a--hole of the nth degree! Keith Olbermann is a true American hero admired by every American who thinks for himself and doesn't suffer from the same rectal cranial inversion you suffer from. You and this page are perfect forum for a--holes with no education to line to get one from people like me.

Bushkill Falls has lost it. The standard tactic used by Olbylovers is to change the subject away from Olbermann. Then they get offended and huffy when someone wants to discuss Olbermann, even though the name of the site is Olbermannwatch. And talk about putting the blame on someone--that's all they can do. To hear them tell it, Bush is responsible from everything from a baby's wet diaper to WWI and the rise of Hitler even though he wasn't even born yet.

So ow is it that KO, who never leaves his studio, is "brave", yet Anderson Cooper is not when he gows to the front lines"?

Also, I recall in 1999 (Kosovo) when some guy named Hockenberry, who was wheelchair bound, worked for MSNBC. He was over in Kosovo reporting FROM A FREAKING WHEELCHAIR!! Yet the "brave" Merlot Spiller is lauded because he hurls insults and slander from the safety of a studio in NJ. I don't get it.

CW, save your manifestos for your own web page. You bore the crap out of me when you blather on and on and on....

I meant "how is it.."

KO and his defenders here believe that this is "speaking truth to power" and "patriotic".

Agreed. CW makes a person want rip their eyeballs out of their head rather than read his lame sh-t.

CW, this is a board relevant to the O'Reilly / Allard discussion. Get with the program.

"Valid Criticism"? The man wrote that American Soldiers are "mercinaries", "lucky that they are not spit upon", and "receiving obscene ammenities in Iraq". "Valid Criticism"? Really Keith?

And one question for Olby (and, by extension, Arkin): Those Marines now being court-martialed at Camp Pendleton, based on *HEARSAY* "evidence" from *THE ENEMY*, and regurgitated by John Murtha-F***er and Time's Tim McGurk(sp?) - would the both of you (that is, KO and Arkin) have rather that each and every one of those Marines ended up in body bags, like their buddies whose murder at the hands of those you gushingly call "insurgents" supposedly led to what they're now being court-martialed for? Because the politically correct ROE (Rules Of Engagement) that our troops are forced to observe in Iraq, is yet another template for even more needless deaths of our soldiers . . . not to mention this kangaroo-court show-trial that's called a "court-martial" . . . if Bush & company really wanted true victory in Iraq (instead of what's going on now), they wouldn't've sent our boys in to fight with one or both hands tied behind their back, rather encouraged them to smash the Sunni triangle from whence the mayhem has been established to originate, by all means necessary . . .

WB,, Yep we should have slaughtered all the civilans, or even better yet dug up a old neutron bomb so we do not disturb the oil and the remaining nice buildings in a country far older than the US. Damn you rightwingers are simpletons.

W.B.,

So where do you stand on Bush's rationalization of the war, and that adhered to by many pro-war posters on this website: that we are in Iraq to liberate the populace and bring freedom?

"Ventriloquist" dummy Col Allard is smart enough to avoid being "dragged" on Countdown with "personal friend" Keith "forcing words" in his mouth.

Keith, you are truly despicable.

To hear them tell it, Bush is responsible from everything from a baby's wet diaper to WWI and the rise of Hitler even though he wasn't even born yet.

Posted by: Brandon at February 11, 2007 12:32 AM

Translation: My main man Bush is not responsible for anything, and I resent it when someone brings up any truth about him.

We hear you, Benson, LOUD AND CLEAR !

Benson is in the tiniest of tiny minorities who still don't see how Bush is the worst president in our lifetime.

THE REPUBLICANS ARE WASTING NO TIME .
ALL ABOARD !!! THE SWIFTBOAT CRUISE IS ABOUT TO BEGIN !

Yesterday, Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) announced his candidacy for president in Springfield, IL, where Abraham Lincoln delivered his famous "House Divided" address. In his speech, Obama reiterated his call to redeploy U.S. forces out of Iraq by March 2008.

This morning on Fox News Sunday, Weekly Standard editor William Kristol attacked Obama's Iraq policy, saying he wants to appease terrorists like pro-slavery politician Stephen Douglas tried to appease slave-owners. Kristol said, "Obama's speech is a 'can't we get along' speech , sort of the opposite of Lincoln. He would have been with Stephen Douglas in 1858."

Benson is a drowning rat that refuses to leave the sinking warship that has been attacking the soul of America.

All progressives who sado-masochistically read this site need to forget about these impotent morons and do everything within our power to prevent the foundering Bush administration from launching another unprovoked attack - this time against Iran. If we Americans allow yet another war of lies to happen we deserve the ruin and slavery that will certainly follow.

Write your senators, representatives, and newspaper editors - lets stop wasting our time on these dead-enders.

"who still don't see how Bush is the worst president in our lifetime"

...3%+ growth in GDP, 4.7% unemployment, growing stock market, North Korea to give up its nuclear program, Libya giving up its nuclear program, 60 million people freed from brutal dictatorships, millions of people in Africa helped from the terrible scourge of AIDS......et cetera et cetera

Of course, none of this conversation (if you will) has ANYTHING to do with the reportorial skills and professionalism of MSNBC news anchor Keith Olbermann.

THOSE LAZY-ASS REPUBLICANS ARE STRIKING BACK !

One of the lesser-known aspects of the "Air Pelosi" controversy is the degree to which the fuss is payback for the House speaker's decision to hold legislators to a five-day workweek instead of the three- or four-day schedule adopted by the Republicans in the past.

THE GOP DO NOTHING CONGRESS OF THE PAST 6 YEARS WAS HAPPY WITH THEIR DONOTHINGNESS.
NOW THEIR APPLECART HAS BEEN DISRUPTED.
LET'S ALL CRY CROCADILE TEARS THAT THE GOP HAS TO WORK A 5 DAY WORK WEEK !

THANK YOU NANCY !

Its a good thing that this sight is here cause it is telling us to remember something that were not remembering & that is that the US of America is full of traitors who say things that hurt the US of America & Pres Bush & the troops & that are making us loose the war & we need to remember that & not just remember but do something about it like making sure Pres Bush stays Pres until he wins this war for us & for freedom cause who else is gonna win it not the DemocRATS thats for sure & we also need to remember to bite back when people say whose Pres Bush to say we need to go to war cause he didnt serve in other wars he might have - too old now of course - but wouldnt it have been a bad thing for the enemies to have captured him since his father was gonna be Pres & was already powerful & could be black mailed if his son were captured much less tortured & yes Chaney too, sure hes got problems but he didnt dodge the draft to avoid being drafted he just needed to stay home cause his wife was with child & he needed to support them & be strong enough to keep his family from sliding down into the pit of debotchary, & it worked for 1 of his children so thats a good thing. I have a ? and that ? is why do people who dont like Pres Bush want the US of America to loose the war & I think it is cause they dont like the US of America as much as they dont like Pres Bush so yes its OK to say if you dont like Pres Bush you dont like the US of America & if you dont like the US of America you dont like Pres Bush --- sure its simple but that doesnt mean its wrong does it & if you dont like the US of America & you dont like Pres Bush then you stay here at your peral or you go move to Iraq or to Holland or some place like that & by were glad we didnt have to waist a rope on you you rotten traitor who helped the US of Americas enemies.

60 million people freed from brutal dictatorships, millions of people in Africa helped from the terrible scourge of AIDS......et cetera et cetera

Yesbut must be one of the Lollipop Kids for he must be living in the land of OZ.

"60 million people freed from brutal dictatorships,"
and replaced with a much WORSE situation that is spiraing out of control.

Yes, there is no more AIDS in Africa b/c of George Bush.

"We are the Lollipop kids, the Lollipop kids, the Lollipop Kids !"

And North Korea is giving up it's nuclear program?
I think Dorothy's house must have fallen on your head !

"Yes, there is no more AIDS in Africa b/c of George Bush."

And I claimed that where in my post?

I said that (in so many words) that the assistance we have given has reduced the spread of AIDS in Africa. Obviously, we can't totally eliminate that horrible affliction.

You think the people in Afghanistan were better off under the Taliban?

Really?

An agreement with North Korea to give up its nuclear program will be announced shortly.

As with Libya/Qaddaffi, Kim Jung-il finds out he's trapped.

Lets see Anderson Cooper, I think he did sign a new contract, probably makes out well. But Anderson Cooper is everywhere! Question his motives, but you can't question his work ethic.

Bill O'Reilly, no doubt makes a real good buck. High Ratings! No doubt gets paid real good. But, puts on a 60 minute show every week night.

Larry King, Let me re-write my thought. The man who Friday night, not only had a train wreck of a show. But a train wreck of a show with a few chemical cars jumping the tracks to add to the wreck. Larry King, Larry Flint. Is there a difference at this point? But, Larry delivers the tabloid crap like no one eles can. Makes a good buck, and has a lifetime contract.

Keith Olbermann, runs the same crap every night, can't get anybody on, can't get ratings, only has people who hang on a fringe area about 25 miles east of area 51 watching him. Has no contract, and is about to go out the door at N.B.C. because HE thinks HE's somebody.

So what if at this point the man is acting like a mental case? He keeps looking up and seeing that the roof is about to cave in!!!!!!!

What's that old saying? "If you lie down with dogs you get fleas." Start scratching Boy!!!!! And hurry up! Your so called friends that you lied down with? Are about to run you over with the bus!!!!

Our OCD pal Rudy and Yesbut have no explanation for Bush's 28% approval rating nor his repudiation in the fall elections.

Bush was ranked the "worst president ever" by over 150 Historians in 2004.
That was BEFORE the Katrina debacle and the worsening of the war in iraq too.

These two 's view of history makes me want to chip in and get them some glasses for their nearsightedness.

"These two 's view of history makes me want to chip in and get them some glasses for their nearsightedness"

Old Confucian saying:
"He who cannot answer other people's post changes the topic."

Okay, so I made it up.

Were he alive today, he would have said it.

You think the people in Afghanistan were better off under the Taliban?

Really?

Yesbut must be totally unaware that the Taliban has had a resurgence in Afghanistan due to Bush's preocupation in Iraq.
They now control the major roads in that country.
Bush's middle east policy has been a disaster.
Thus his approval ratings and fall elections.

Wake up and smell the coffee Yesbut, or do you neeed a HEAD BUTT to wake you up !

yes, yesbut needs a headbut.

The only one worried about Keith's contract is the idiot Puck.
Isn't he going to look foolish when Keith is still on the air 2 years from now.

Some of the media names have changed, but the underlying issue of media control has only become worse then it was seven years ago.

The so called "liberal media" is one of the biggest non-truths " put on the American people.

Here are a few TV Guide listings that you will never see:

Tonight at 7pm CBS will present a one hour Documentary "Why We Must Go To War With Iran."

Monday night on Fox presents a one hour Documentary "The Lead Up To the War In Iraq."

Wednesday night NBC will present a one our documentary " Where Has All Of Our Money Gone In Iraq."

Friday night ABC Will present a documentary chronicling "Military Mistakes Made In The Last Four Years and Who Made Them."

Why exactly will we never see these programs?

Ask The Walt Disney Company, General Electric, CBS/Viacom, and News Corp. It would be interesting to hear the heads of these companies, under oath, responding to questions before a tough congressional committee concerning their lack of public service.

Has anyone figured out the meaning of broadcasters serving in the public interest, convenience and necessity?

Certainly not the broadcasters!

"Yesbut must be totally unaware that the Taliban has had a resurgence in Afghanistan due to Bush's preocupation in Iraq."

Aha, that's not what you said.

You said they were: "Replaced with a much WORSE situation that is spiraing out of control."

Again, I ask you: The people in Afghanistan were better off under the Taliban?

Second, who is CAUSING the terrible situation in Iraq?

It's al-Qaeda, the former Baathist thugs who ran the country and elements of the various sects fighting one another. These sects, of course, fought one another BEFORE we overthrew Saddam; only we didn't hear about it because the Sunnis were slaughtering the Shi'a behind the world's attention.

Easier to blame Bush, I know. Or the neocons. Or anyone OTHER than the actual people doing the destruction.

Because if you blamed the actual people, you'd have to come up with a solution other than simply blaming the neocons or Bushco or someone else.

And that, my friend, you cannot intellectually do. You've got too much invested in Bush hatred to be able to come up with real answers.

The White
House's attempt to build a case for an Iran War, as "deja vu all over
again" is a policy which the Hall of Fame catcher, Yogi Berra, was first to elaborate.
Showing their great disdain for the American Public, Bush et al, figure that
since a few aluminum tubes, a couple of mobile trailers; etc, where good
enough to get us into the endless Iraq quagmire, why not try it again by
arresting five Iranians who Bush and Co. called trouble-makers but the Iraq
gov't called diplomats, produce the serial numbers, real or imagined from a
few bombs, and a 200 page dossier of phantom origin on the subject. It's
possible that these fantasists believe that the Iranians will welcome our
soldiers with open arms like the Iraqis did (NOT!), and that The Civil War
between Shiites and Shias, will lose its steam when Shiite Iran is attacked.
All it will take is for Dick Cheney to click his ruby-red slippers and we'll
walk the Yellow-Cake road into Tehran while the followers of an angry
Ayatollah shower us with flower petals. What we really need is Yogi in the
White House not a bunch of political foul-balls.

Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq before Bush invaded it, you fool !
Yesbut has self induced amnesia.

"Second, who is CAUSING the terrible situation in Iraq?"

The Iraq War has blown open a hornet's nest in Iraq that wasn't there before Bush invaded Iraq.
The fact that Yesbut is still pontificating and making excuses for Bush and Iraq shows he belongs in the disgraced 28% of the American people.
That's where he is with his ridiculous points, and that's where he belongs.

Iraq needed a dictator to hold the country's regional differences together.
Now we have chaos.

And Yesbut doesn't think it's George Bush's fault.

"Simpleton" is the word that first comes to mind when I read Yesbut's posts.

Aha, that's not what you said.

You said they were: "Replaced with a much WORSE situation that is spiraing out of control."

Exactly, headbut !

The people of Iraq can't even walk the streets in the major cities,can't even attend religious services, but before we invaded Iraq, they could.
Also...
Why hasn't the only government run news agency been in Iraq in over 8 months?

Since I'm sure you don't know the answer to that, I'll tell you.
BECAUSE IT'S TOO UNSAFE FOR THEM TO BE THERE.

yes, spiraling out of control.
And your bullsh-t and views and people like you is the reason we got into this disaster in the first place.

Thank God the American people have woken up.
Yesbut still remains in slumber in la la land.

Keith Olbermann is one of the few newscasters that tells the truth about this administration.
Thus, why this site exists.

The Bushlovers can't really come out and support what Bush is doing, so it's so much easier to attack the messenger.

Keep up the good work Keith.

And when you read the posts of the Bush apologists ( the Keith attackers) and their opponents, the latter's points have more truth and reason than the former's.

"Replaced with a much WORSE situation that is spiraing out of control."

Excuse me, the topic was Afghanistan.

You said that the people's freed were better off under the previous regime.

Were the people better off when Saddam was slaughtering them with NO chance of living under self-government and with no chance or hope of improving their lives?

Were the people bette off when the Taliban was oppressing them with NO change of living under self-governemnt and with no chance or hope of improving their lives?

The people causing the destruction in Afghanistan and Iraq were causing the destruction when they were running those countries.

Get with it, my friend. The enemies of democracy and freedom and self-government are trying to install dictatorships in Iraq and Afghanistan again.

"It's al-Qaeda, the former Baathist thugs who ran the country and elements of the various sects fighting one another. These sects, of course, fought one another BEFORE we overthrew Saddam; only we didn't hear about it because the Sunnis were slaughtering the Shi'a behind the world's attention."

Nice job of pulling absolute fiction out of your ass, YesBut.

Saddam had an absolute monopoly on violence in Iraq prior to our invasion. Sunni, Shia, Kurd, and Turkoman all had reason to fear him; and these factions were cowed by the authority and brutality of his Baathist (largely Sunni) party. Nobody was "fighting one another"; Saddam was brutally oppressing everyone, and everyone laid low - just like in the Balkans behind the Iron Curtain.

And don't forget that Saddam owed his powerful position to the patronage of the United States, who built up his military and intellegence capabilities in order to utilize him as a proxy aggressor against Iran.

And as for the active brutality of Saddam's rule at the time of our invasion; look at the dates for his reported crimes. The gassing of the Kurds at Halabja happened in 1986 - two months before special envoy DOnald Rumsfeld shook the dictator's hand and reaffirmed American support for his regime. When did the crimes for which Saddam was tried and executed occur? 1977, I believe. Hundreds of thousands of Shia and Kurds were apparently killed by Saddam during the popular uprisings following the 1st Gulf war in 1991 - uprisings fomented in part by George H.W. Bush, and then subsequently abandoned due to that president's aversion to the idea of toppling Saddam utterly and leaving a power-vacuum in Iraq.

How many crimes approaching this magnitude have been documented since then? I've heard of none. Certainly individuals were imprisoned, brutalized, tortured, and murdered by the Hussein regime right up to our invasion, but I've heard no report of mass-killings post-dating 1991. The situation was miserable, but could have been ameliorated through patronage of grass-roots social groups, as opposed to bombing them and destroying their civic and economic infrastructure.

In short, it is preposerous to assert that our invasion has improved the lot of Iraqis. Since the first month of our invasion the death rates in that county have exceded by steadilly increasing orders of magnitude those under Saddam in the previous decade. Millions of Iraqis are currently living as uprooted refugees, in a country of only 25 million. British SAS agents have been caught red-handed planting car-bombs - presumably in the effort to instigate chaos ala their documented modus opperandii in Norther Ireland.

While I have repudiated from the start the idea of unsubstantiated "preventative" invasion, I do believe that stability could have been achieved by the end of 2001 had Jay Garner been allowed to proceed with his fast-track plans to hold elections in June of 2001 and to issue the preponderance of reconstruction contracts to Iraqi firms. But he was rapidly sh-t-canned when the administration percieved his earnest intentions, and replaced with veteran civic sabatuer Paul Bremmer, who immediately proceded to destroy any vestige of order or economic hope for the Iraqis. No Iraqi firms were issued contracts; military bases and a giant US embassy were given precedence over schools and hospitals; elections were delayed and delayed. Corporate profits have been the only subsequent success.

" Nobody was "fighting one another"; Saddam was brutally oppressing everyone, and everyone laid low - just like in the Balkans behind the Iron Curtain. "

Unbelievable!

Nobody was fighting Saddam?

Tell that to the Kurds. Tell that to the Shi'a who tried to rise up after the Gulf War.

If "nobody" was opposing him, why did he have to slaughter hundreds of thousands of them?

Why did he gas the Kurds?

Why did he try to wipe out the Marsh Arabs?

It is 100% wrong for anyone to say that no one in Iraq tried to oppose Saddam's regime.

There's bodies buried all over Iraq of people who tried to oppose him.

Geez, have you been sleepwalking through the past two decades?

...there had never been a suicide bombing in Iraq prior to March of 2001

Beef Turd,

You've got your years mixed up. You meant 2003, not 2001. Jay Garner was not in Iraq in 2001.

"there had never been a suicide bombing in Iraq prior to March of 2001"

Saddam used gas. And bullets. And tanks.

Much "easier" and he could kill more people faster.

Like the Kurds. Like the Shi'a. Like the Marsh Arabs. Like the Kuwaitis.

By the hundreds of thousands.

Not to mention those killed in the wars he started.

Read my post, YesButt.

I mention the crimes you cite; but the diference is that I provide dates. There was no extant program of genocide in Iraq at the time of our invasion, or for the preceding decade. Our invasion directly killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, and initiated a chaos in which hundreds of thousands more have died and continue to die.

Why did the US government continue to support Saddam aftyer his gassing of the Kurds?

Correction noted Recto, I meant 2003.