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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    April 17, 2007
    Countdown with Keith Olbermann - April 17, 2007

    "COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" (8:00 P.M.-9:00 P.M. ET)

    Host: Keith Olbermann

    Topics/Guests:

    • VIRGINIA TECH KILLER PROFILE: James Fox, Northeastern University criminologist and MSNBC analyst

    The opening spiel dealt with the Virginia Tech shooting, but with a unique bit of OlbySpin. These kids died "violently, senselessly, pointlessly", but in the last ten days 30 soldiers died "violently, senselessly, pointlessly" in Iraq. Yes, on OlbyPlanet, our soldiers' deaths in a struggle to help a people are just as unimportant and meaningless and "pointless" as the victims of a psychopathic killer. Why does Keith Olbermann hate our troops? Plus the US attorneys "scandal" [Ding!] continues, and "damning" revelations. The Spin Starts Here.

    UPDATE: Video & Transcript

    Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly book Culture Warrior

    #5/#4: The campus shooting. with special emphasis on the purchase of the "pistule". Report from Kevin Corke. Interview with Aamer Madhani of the Chicago Trib. Background of the shooter with James Fox. Regurgitated NBC report on the victims.

    #3: Rev Olbermahn's sermon on why Americans dying in Iraq are just as pointless as the victims of the campus shooter. Why are we suppressing our grief for the all the deaths caused by the Bush Crime Family? (Um, that's a paraphrase.) The Wolffe Man was brought on to amplify OlbySpin. Iraq has left us "hardened" to deaths; 9/11 "distorted" the costs we can bear; are future deaths "worth it"? Oralmann said the war opponents need to emphasize the casualties more. You know, like we did in World War II. Bathtub Boy wanted the campus shootings to influence the debate on Iraq. Wolffie said "sadly" that is unlikely to happen until we "wake up". Great thanks.

    #2: The Gonzales situation: Monica Goodling may be offered immunity before Congress. Just like "worst person" Ollie North. Yes, time for the latest episode of Olby and the Perfessor, as Jonathan Turley skulked into the Countdown Seat of Honor. Ooh, Rove and Bush may have been involved in the selection of Presidential appointees. We can't have that! That's "improper"! Gonzales's written statement is "robotic". How can a written document be robotic? You'll have to ask The Perfessor. Again, Olby brings up those "conservatives" Bob Barr (of the ACLU) and "David" Vigurie (maybe that's Richard's Dad). As for those "damning revelations" that were promised? Conspicuous by their absence. Of course, the inevitable Great Thanks.

    #1: Update and recap on the shooting. The Media Matters Minute went after John Derbyshire and Nathaniel Blake (Blue Blog Source: Think Progress), as well as Debbie Schlussel (Blue Blog Source: Media Matters). Olby explained this segment is just "satirical social commentary", presumably to explain to befuddled viewers why the campus mass murderer didn't make the cut.

    Stories Olbermann refuses to report

    Dogs that did not bark: Because of the major focus on breaking news, we will again cut Keithy a bit of a break. However, we must reiterate that on Friday's Hour of Spin, Herr Olbermann gave a "worst person" nomination to Malik Shabazz, but put up someone else's picture by mistake. Oops. As he slammed Shabazz for calling Michelle Malkin a "prostitute", all that time the screen showed Opio Sokoni. One would think this would covered with a correction, retraction, or apology. Yet that dog did not bark on tonight's Hour of Spin. Ironically, it was just about a year ago that Oralmann spent an entire segment slamming Bill O'Reilly for--you guessed it--putting up an incorrect picture of someone.

    Olbermann's book The book that bears Olbermann's name is a stupendous #29,652 at amazon.com, while "Culture Warrior" is #404. (It's that 2-for-$25 sale!) The OlbyTome has no rank at all at Barnes & Noble; O'Reilly's book is #1,422 there, and is one of the top five books of 2006 per Publishers Weekly. Monday's Hour of Spin got a breaking news bump, but still couldn't do any better than third place, both in total viewers and in the critical, beloved, all-important, coveted "key demo".

    UPDATE: Video & Transcript

    Read the transcript to the Tuesday show


    user-pic

    333 Comments

    Yesterday, after seeing Brandon’s feeble attempt at defending his daily toiling at Olbermann Watch, which basically amounted to: You gotta have more than just Wal-Mart experience to work HERE!…I started to wonder, what does it take to work at Olbermann Watch? If you’ve been on this site for more than a week, the answers become hilariously clear:

    First, what you DON’T NEED to work at OlbermannWatch:

    1.) A strong command of the English language.

    Just read any blog entry from Bob, Johnny, Brandon or others to see that the ‘Official Language of the United States’ is under attack…but not from Illegal Aliens, from our very own Olbermann Watch crew. Good news guys, I hear there’s plenty of great courses you can take if English is your first OR your second language.

    2.) The ability to type.

    The OW crew is so bad at typing, they’ve actually used that fact as a point in their favor during debates. When folks try to inform them that they have misspelled numerous words, they proudly proclaim, ‘It’s not that we can’t spell, it’s just that we can’t type.” Now that’s some good advice: Find out what you’re bad at, and stick with it.

    3.) Critical thinking skills.

    Wanna be a member of the OW crew? Check your brain at the door. You have to be willing to believe everything someone says is a lie, even when they say they are lying. The crew is so immersed in their own propaganda, they might just be starting to believe it themselves. Yes, a lie repeated often enough will eventually be believed, except at Olbermann Watch, where it just gets ridiculously tedious.

    4.) The ability to actually debate anything.

    Of course I’m not the first to point out that Brandon’s debating skill equates to simple name calling. Well sure, I’d call everyone who disagreed with me crazy to, when faced with the alternative he’s faced with: That he’s WRONG about everything. Yeah, Brandon, you’re fine…everyone else is crazy.

    5.) A Conscience.

    Attacking someone for their hypocrisy while actively engaging in hypocrisy is certainly much easier without a conscience. Don’t worry, though, having a conscience isn’t necessarily a deal breaker. If you’re really good at ignoring it, that’s almost as good.


    Now, the skills you DO NEED to work at Olbermann Watch:

    1.) The ability to make up fake words to go with your fake ideas. Yes, if you are clever enough to come up with silly childish names such as ‘Olbyloon’ or ‘Olbyplanet’ then they might just have a job for you. Jeff threw his cowboy hat into the ring with his creation, ‘Anonyloon’ but so far it just hasn’t gotten much traction from the establishment at OW.

    2.) Fox News Channel. Yes, required viewing amongst the OW crew. How else can you keep up with current events and stay on message without the help of a Bill O’Reilly Talking Points Memo. If your news channel has to keep telling you how ‘Fair & Balanced’ they are, you’re definitely watching Fox.

    3.) A singular vision of what Olbermann Watch should be. Yes, you can comment about Keith, you can comment about Iraq, you can comment about Racism, but gosh golly if someone else strays off the topic of Keith Olbermann, you have to be able to swoop in and put them in their place. Yes, you can talk about whatever you like, but others here have to keep it on topic: Keith Olbermann (or MSNBC, or The Liberal Media, or…?)

    4.) A political axe to grind with Keith Olbermann. Perhaps Keith reminds you of the school teacher that gave you that bad grade in math. Perhaps ‘Keith’ is the name of the guy that was picked over you for that promotion you were going for. Perhaps you’ve been gay bashing for so long that when you see NBC’s rainbow hued peacock logo you fly into a blind rage. Whatever the reason, check your facts at the door. This is Olbermann Watch, all you need is a singular obsession with someone who is more successful and makes more money than you do, and pretend that it’s not jealousy.

    5.) Free time. Lots and lots of free time. When you don’t have command of the English language, the ability to type, the ability to debate, critical thinking skills, or a conscious, well you’d better have lots and lots of free time, because this ain’t gonna be easy. I’d like to give them an ‘A’ for effort, but working hard and dumb is so much less effective than working smart. Keep trying guys, you have plenty of time to get it right-about 4 more years to be exact.

    The Georgia Republicans who kept reelecting Bob Barr would be surprised to learn he isn't a conservative. I'm glad to see you admit anyone who cares about liberty, rights, freedom, or the Constitution must be a liberal. David Keene of the American Conservative Union also signed the letter.

    Olbermann was pointing out we're putting much more emphasis on these 32 deaths than we do on the deaths in Iraq. Liberals were mocked and called traitors for mentioning the numbers or listing names. But two straight days of coverage of these 32 deaths hasn't drawn that criticism.

    Conscience? You wanna talk about the lack of a conscience? Let's talk about Olbermann's attempt to negate the tragedy in Virginia by equating it with the war in Iraq. Never mind the soldiers in Iraq voluntered to serve in the military and these kids in Virginia were just trying to get an education. The expectation isn't that will be murdered while attending class but if you sign up to serve in the military, yes, that comes with a certain expectation that you might actually face a hostile enemy at some point in your military career. Not that you Olbyloons would know anything about careers-you're too busy spinning apologies to cover your hero Olbermann's ample ass and holding down your part-time jobs at Wal-mart.

    By the way, good to know i'm getting underneath your skin. Wait til you see the latest Olbyloon project I'm working on!

    Hey, Mr. "strong command of the English language", the word is conscience, not conscious.

    Free time. Lots and lots of free time.

    You mean like you?

    When you don’t have command of the English language,

    You mean how Mike tried to belittle Royal for "I am I"? I'll repost from the other thread:

    Uh Jeff...LOL...what 'word' was that? Was it the 'no' in "you wouldn't no humor", or would it be the "I" in "I am I"?

    Your SO clever Jeff. Why Jeff, you're the only one I know who can 'trap' folks using bad grammar!

    Are you the grammarian, Mke?

    Do you understand the difference between a linking verb and an action verb? Then what kind of pronoun follows a linking verb? Yes, that is right, a subjective pronoun, not an objective one. I is the subjective, me is the objective. Therefore, am (a linking verb) requires the subjective pronoun I.
    Posted by: Sharon at April 17, 2007 9:39 PM

    It's a war! People die in wars! You act like this comes as a huge shock to you. It was the greatest mass murder in American history and you don't think it warrants coverage because you think that their time would be better spent bashing Bush? Get a grip on reality! But hey, the Olbypologists can always be counted on to spin the offensive comments of Keith Olbermann. That's why you people don't hold down gainful employment: you spend all your time here and elsewhere on the internet spinning up wild-ass theories to cover Olbermann's ass!

    It's a message board. It's not a test. It's not being graded. And I don't remember seeing a sign that said you had to type X words per minute to post anywhere on the internet. And if there was an IQ test, none of you Olbyloons would be allowed anywhere near a keyboard or a computer. No wonder you can't find your way out of college or the Kwikie Mart.

    Kevin,

    I was going to make that point also (conscience).

    If you are going to insult, at least do a little proofreading. Now who is LMAO?

    Thanks, Sharon. Great minds think alike.

    I shouldn't be shocked that Olbermann would stoop so low to somehow try to minimize the deaths in Virginia at the hands of a psychotic gunman. Nor should I be shocked that he'd try somehow to tie it to Iraq and chime in with his usual Bush-bashing. I was watching the liberal websites yesterday and you know what the overwhelming concern was of the Liberal Loon contingent? That the Gonzales thing had been postponed. They were furious about that. They also wildly (and incorrectly) speculated that the shooter had to be a right-wing Republican "redneck". These people never let facts get in the way of their agenda. And you can write all the 10,000 word essays you want to in order to divert attention away from what a slimeball your hero Olbermann is, but the fact remains that he has reached an all-time low tonight and owes the families of those who died and the students of VT a huge apology.

    Sharon: Thanks teach!

    I'm glad Jeff has so many defenders on this board.

    DO you feel 'good' about defending a troll who has lied repeatedly on this board just because he is on your 'team'. So you think falsely accusing someone on this board of being anybody and everybody else whose politics they just happen to dislike is defendable????

    Great Sharon...I actually thought you were better than that!

    And Sharon, regardless of whether it technically conforms to grammar rules, if someone came up to you and said "I am I", you would role your eyes as well, at least as long as they were not on your 'team'.

    Brandon,
    It's good to see, like the typical conservative, you couldn't care less about our soldiers.

    Wal-Mart is the creation of Southerners for you inbred rednecks. Check out the latest Census data. Blue state citizens earn more than you red staters. We also send more money to Washington, have better educations, and collect less from government.

    During the Imus week, Jonathan Alter (who appeared countless times on Imus as well as Countdown) was on Hardball. I was half listening because I heard him Bush bashing. I thought the topic was the war. No, Alter was making some king of convoluted point that the American people have issues with apologies because Bush has never apologized for anything. This was stated in the context of Imus' multiple apologies. Of course the campus tragedy is Bush's fault. I guess Columbine was also?

    "4.) A political axe to grind with Keith Olbermann. Perhaps Keith reminds you of the school teacher that gave you that bad grade in math. Perhaps ‘Keith’ is the name of the guy that was picked over you for that promotion you were going for. Perhaps you’ve been gay bashing for so long that when you see NBC’s rainbow hued peacock logo you fly into a blind rage. Whatever the reason, check your facts at the door. This is Olbermann Watch, all you need is a singular obsession with someone who is more successful and makes more money than you do, and pretend that it’s not jealousy."


    Do you think it's fair that this blustering clown would make more more than ME?

    Is it fair that a guy of his caliber would have the viewers HE has?

    That he'd be paid the money HE'S paid?

    That he'd have the popularity HE has?

    The speaking engagements....HE garners?

    The books HE writes on the NYT Best Sellers list?

    Hell, no! Ths idiot.... Bill Orally...that damn son-of-a...

    Oh wait.... you're talking about me...

    ..... nevermind...

    Sorry...

    eh....Great thanks!

    Keith Olbermann

    Brandon,
    You're on here constantly so you shouldn't attack anyone for spending time online. Do the conservative commentators who essentially called the victims pussies owe anyone an apology?

    "I shouldn't be so shocked that Olbermann would stoop so low as to minimize the deaths in Virginia"...

    No Brandon, only you and your little band of self congratulating "clear thinkers" see it THAT way. Everyone else with a brain understands that he was trying to wake up the conscience of a nation about another travesty that has been happening all along....but is shamefully beiing hidden from public view as a matter of policy.

    Oh wait...all those young soldiers in Iraq 'volunteered' to die for no good reason, didn't they Brandon?

    I have two family members serving in Iraq, one is on his second tour, one is on his third. And as usual, you are wrong. I don't live in the South. But I bet I'm right when I say that you're either still trying to find your way out of college or are under or un-employed. Or do Mommy and Daddy suport you as you post all over the internet to spin apologies for Olby?

    Shut your trap HYPOCRITE MIKE! You are the one who made the silly argument! I don't care whose "team" it is! It just happens that your "team" is most often making that kind of attack. You are guilty of all the offenses of which you accuse others. I yam what I yam. I doubt anyone here holds the same political view as me. I want Roe v. Wade overturned. No one here does. I say what I believe.

    FYI: I am a former high school English teacher.

    Johnny,

    Aside for John Derbyshire, Media Matters and Oblermann by extention...had to really do some hunting for the other two.... WHO?

    I'm just wondering too, is there really a soul here who hasn't asked why the gunman wasn't rushed...and asked it while reminding yourself at the same time that you can't imagine what it's like to be in that situation.

    It's all part of the Olbypocrisy syndrome Sharon. They are allowed to say whatever they want. They are allowed to use any tactic whatsoever to achieve their "goals". But oh boy, they have a fit if anyone turns around and uses their tactics on them. Just ask Fat-Ass, Viagra-popping Keith Olbermann.

    Sharon,
    You're right. I can't imagine any conservative wanting Roe overturned. What a shocking concept. What idiot could ever think conservatives are against abortion?

    Brandon,
    I'm sorry you're jealous of college-educated people. I have my master's degree and live in my own house. I doubt you can afford your own trailer yet. How's BK working out for you? Did you get promoted to head burger flipper yet?

    Sharon said: "of course the campus tragedy is bush's fault..."

    Sharon, have you heard ANYBODY in the mainstream media say that? Have you even heard anybody even IMPLY that...oh wait, Johnny implied that, didn't he, but we know how "fair and balanced" he is don't we.

    And Sharon, I really would like an answer about your side's failure to call down Jeff for falsely accusing me at least 100 times for posts I didn't make. It speaks volumes about the lack of integrity on your side of the board to me.

    Cecelia,

    Check over at mypetjawa and read about a professor who threw himself in front of the door costing his life while saving the students'.

    I live in a gate-guarded community with not one but two golf courses. My house is worth more than you'll probably make in your miserable life and I own three luxury cars. And I have a Master's degree and a successful career, something you'll never know anything about.

    And yes, I have heard someone say that the shootings were Bush's fault. Olbermann last night when he said that the Bush administration allowed a gun law to expire that would have banned gun clips like the one ALLEGEDLY (not even proven) used in the shootings at VT. And you trying to spin and deny for Olbermann speaks VOLUMES about you Lying Mike.

    Cecelia,

    Check over at mypetjawa and read about a professor who threw himself in front of the door costing his life while saving the students'.

    Posted by: Sharon at April 17, 2007 10:45 PM

    Sharon, I saw that reported today.

    A Holocaust survivor, who died on Holocaust Remembrance Day. A member of the Greatest Generation.

    I still say that Mike is lying about his military service or he'd understand that you defend your country if you're in the military and if you're in a war, you have to be prepared to die for your country. Liberals like Mike talk about unpopular causes but if these weenies would have been around in WWII can you imagine the bitching and moaning they would have done about the "senseless" deaths? how naiive is it to think that you can have a war without deaths? Do you think I want my family members to die there? Of course I don't. I worry about them every day. And unlike you, I support them and refuse to degrade them. And unlike Olbermann, at least they aren't afraid to serve their country and GO TO IRAQ.

    Sharon: "You are gulity of all the offenses in which you accuse others"

    EXAMPLES please Sharon!

    I have NEVER accused anyone else of secretly posting under other names, even when I suspected it.

    It doesn't matter what anyone else on my 'team' might have done because I've never seen this board as a 'team' game, but it is becoming increasingly clear that those on your side do.

    I really want an answer Sharon....tell me again it is defensible the way Jeff kept LYING about me posting under other names. Tell me again this is OK because he is on your 'team'!


    HYPOCRITE MIKE,

    The comments speak for themselves. If you didn't say them, the commenters can see that for themselves. Oh, but everyone who disagrees with you is uneducated, dull-witted. They probably wouldn't understand in any case, right? Concerning the point about Bush's fault for the campus tragedy, it was stated sarcastically in view of the previous observation I made about Alter.

    Brandon,
    If you're going to lie at least make it believable. By reading your posts, it's obvious you're an uneducated redneck. People who attend graduate school don't attack college students. High school dropouts like you do.

    Hey Mike, is that like when you used to chide posters for using "abusive" language but only when it was used against your fellow Olbyloons and never once chided an Olbyloon for saying simply awful things about non-Olbyloons? Yeah, I think that's called being a huge-hypocrite. You know, in the land you Olbyloons live and breath on a daily basis.

    Brandon,
    You're pretending to be a military man now too? How'd you ever find the time with the master's and mansions and all? Let me guess. You're a four-star general?

    Brandon: "I live in a gate-guarded community with no one but two golf courses."

    Yes Brandon, you bragged about this before, and we told you we don't give a tinkers damn how much money you have.

    Your gutter level value system came through loud and clear with that last post. You may be materially wealthy, but as a human being, you are of the lowest common denominator.

    I'm not attacking college students, I'm attacking PROFESSIONAL college students who take 10 years to "graduate" because they're afraid of the big, bad world. I can point you to one who runs one of Olbermann's fan-atic boards. But there are several more who have made college a full-time career. I earned my Master's degree while working a 40-hour plus a week job. No Mommy or Daddy to pay for my tuition, no parents to sponge off of. And I bet your "home" could fit in my garage at least 2x. Slacker.

    Nice Sharon....Now you've joined the name calling crowd too.

    All I can say is I actually did think you stood head and shoulders above the rest of this sorry obsessed Olbermann hater crowd, but clearly I was wrong about that.

    See Brandon's 10:47 post for a glimpse of the morally bankrupt mindset you are aligning yourself with.

    Your not going to address my question about Jeff's obvious lies, just a generla statement about 'hypocrites'.

    Once again Sharon, I really thought you were better than that!

    My only advice to those here, check the ratings... NO ONE and I MEAN NO ONE is watching Countdown for any VA Tech Shooting coverage... O'Reilly's numbers are over 3.5 Million... Larry King was a distant second...

    CABLE NEWS RACE
    MON., APRIL 16, 2007
    VIEWERS

    FOXNEWS O'REILLY 3,546,000
    CNN LARRY KING 2,574,000
    CNN COOPER 2,535,000
    FNC GRETA 2,349,000
    FNC HANNITY/COLMES 2,304,000
    CNN ZAHN 2,014,000

    TOTAL DAY

    FNC 1,636,000
    CNN 1,267,000
    MSNBC 525,000

    I think this is a CLEAR indication that Olbermann/Matthews are effectively marginalized as any source for insight and opinion as well as news coverage. This has to be driving Keith O nuts... Paula Zahn kicked his ass... You know that pear shaped elitist is beside himself!!!!

    Brandon,
    You're a pathetic liar. You dodged the question about your military career you implied you had. Now you're claiming you lost your mommy and daddy too? Your story gets better with each retelling of it. Next time can it have lions and tigers and bears oh my? You're trailer trash but if pretending to be rich makes you feel better about yourself, fine. It's obvious you're jealous of others.

    Jealous much? Yes, I think you are. And hey, maybe one day you'll get the courage to leave college and actually get an honest job and you can then possibly get a job cutting my lawn.

    And read carefully there Colbert. I never said I've served in the military. But I do have two family members currently in Iraq.

    And Mike, not that it would matter to you, because facts don't matter to you, Olbermann, or your fellow Olbyloons, but if you could actually comprehend what was posted here earlier, you'd realize that my post was a reaction to one accusing me of being a redneck, someone who lives in a trailer, and someone who is uneducated. None of that is true. Of course, you don't have trouble when one of your fellow Olbyloons throws out personal insults like that do you? It's only when it's aimed at you, a Loon, or Olbermann that you post a self-righteous remark. You're the worst of all possible things Mike, you're a liar, a hypocrite and an Olbypologist.

    More O' Rielly outrage: Bill O' Rielly has no right to talk about the tragedy because he brushed it aside when the news was breaking. He is another lost cause with no moral integrity.

    However, today Keith Olbermann gets blame --- how dare he equate the troops with said crisis. How dare he use the tragedy as propaganda for his over reiterated political causes. How dare he take 10 days of a war as one day during this awfull situation and draw paralels to two different things.

    Oh..I forgot to mention that the mere 500k watching Olberfat is proof the fringe left is small in number.. much like Olberfat is small between the legs... in fact he may own a vagina...

    And Keith Olbermann is the LEAST RATED NEWS/OPINON HACK OF THE DAY..........

    Colbert, you're a bigger liar than Mikey and that's really saying something. I never said I was a orphan, I just said that I paid for my own education, worked my way through college. I also never said I'd served in the military, unlike your buddy Mike, what I said was that I have family members currently serving in Iraq. You can't admit you can't comprehend what you read. Or maybe you're so stupid you really can't comprehend what you read. And i don't have to "pretend" to be rich. I am. Not Donald Trump rich, but wealthy enough that I don't have to worry about bills. It's actually quite enjoyable. I suggest you get off your lazy ass and work for a living and you too might one day be one-one-hundreth as successful as I have been. But that would require you leaving your job as a full-time Olbypologist and spinner of gross lies now wouldn't it?

    So all I have to do is 'prove' that I am very much an honorably discharged veteran who served honorably during wartime, and Brandon's entire argument will collapse.

    Brandon, just who the hell are you to say what a veteran should think or say?

    Brandon, anyone who is not completely morally bankrupt would even THINK of making a gloating braggart post like you made at 10:47.

    Your right Brandon, I DON'T have as much money as you say you do, but I have enough...and I have a couple of friends who could probably literally buy and sell you, but they would never even dream of flaunting their wealth like that, and thats the only reason I call them my friends.

    Mikle B: Keith Olbermann does not promote himself as "liberal", though.

    You cut their lawns for them don't you Mikey? I imagine they keep you around for amusement purposes. Or to carry their golf clubs. Too bad one hasn't use their nine iron to club some sense into your little tiny liberal brain.

    Mike B:

    You forgot to post that Olbermann had over 1,000,000 last night...and yes, eveybody was up, especailly CNN.

    Why is a little honesty too much to ask from you people?

    Oh, and Mike? I never once mentioned my wealth or my success or my education until one of you fellow Olbyloons tried to smear me by saying I was a mobile-home dweller. I simply grew tired of seeing you and your Olbyloon galpals throw out repeated insults and decided to give you a greater insight into why your perceptions were 100% wrong. you know, WRONG, just like Olbermann is every night he's on tv.

    Your not going to address my question about Jeff's obvious lies, just a generla statement about 'hypocrites'.

    Once again Sharon, I really thought you were better than that!

    Posted by: Mike at April 17, 2007 11:05 PM


    Mike, I just want to assure that I don't side with Jeff as you say. The whole concept of merely going on along with someone because "they are on my team" is foreign to me.

    I want to reassure you that I side with Jeff because you are a complete jerk. Rest assured I side with anyone on your team who feels the same.

    I hope that helps.

    Mike: It is things like this, >>> the United States only showing interest in the exploitation of tragic events

    Brandon: Keep on showing everybody how morally and ethically bankrupt you really are...and I'll keep egging you on.

    And no Brandon, I don't cut lawns or carry golf clubs for anybody but myself....but I wouldn't be too proud to admit it if I did..... nor do I look down my nose at anybody who does.

    because unlike you Brandon, I actually have some ethics.

    "I still say that Mike is lying about his military service or he'd understand that you defend your country if you're in the military and if you're in a war, you have to be prepared to die for your country. Liberals like Mike talk about unpopular causes but if these weenies would have been around in WWII can you imagine the bitching and moaning they would have done about the 'senseless' deaths?"

    Let's analyze your words, Brandon. You accuse someone of lying about military service because he doesn't understand it. How would you understand it if you never served?
    Your comment about if weenies had been around "in WWII" implies you were "in WWII" which means you fought in WWII.

    You ended with "at least they aren't afraid to serve their country and GO TO IRAQ." That would be extremely hypocritical for someoneto accuse others of cowardice for refusing to serve when you refused to serve. If you were around for WWII as you said, you're worse. A much larger percentage of men served in WWII than Iraq but you wimped out. You're a gutless coward.

    I worked my way through college. No one ever gave me a dime. I did it all on my own, no college loans, nothing. And I did so while I was working a 40-hour a week job. I never asked for a hand-out, unlike you liberals who believe the world owes you a living. And ethics? I've yet to meet a Democrat who had any.

    Olbermann's pathetic ratings last night reveal that no one takes him seriously as a news source. On a night when CNN and Fox were drawing in literally millions of viewers, it was the same old, same old for Olbermann. Edward R. Murrow of his generation? He's not even the Donald Duck of his generation.

    Anon at 11:26 pm was me quoting Brandon the Gutless Wonder.

    Holy sh-t!
    We all know (from TVSnooozer) that the eeeeeevil Bill O’Reilly beat Krazy Keith in the all important, highly coveted “25-54 Demo”:
    O’Reilly: 1,082
    Meltdown: 541

    But now, (according to Drudge), O’Reilly’s show (just HIS show) beat MSNBC’s ENTIRE LINE UP for the ENTIRE DAY!

    CABLE NEWS RACE
    MON., APRIL 16, 2007

    VIEWERS:
    FOXNEWS O'REILLY 3,546,000
    CNN LARRY KING 2,574,000
    CNN COOPER 2,535,000
    FNC GRETA 2,349,000
    FNC HANNITY/COLMES 2,304,000
    CNN ZAHN 2,014,000

    TOTAL DAY:
    FNC 1,636,000
    CNN 1,267,000
    MSNBC 525,000

    Thanks Sharon....er Cecelia:

    I don't remember asking YOU the question Cecelia. I believe I asked Sharon. You've already showed YOUR true colors on this board.

    As for me being a 'jerk'...you know the old saying about how it takes one to know one?

    I guess you would rather identify with a braggart like Brandon or an proven liar like Jeff, but once again, you've already showed your true colors.

    You don't need to quote Brandon to see that he is gutless.

    I guess you would rather identify with a braggart like Brandon or an proven liar like Jeff, but once again, you've already showed your true colors.

    Posted by: Mike at April 17, 2007 11:29 PM


    Frankly, I wouldn't put anything past you.

    Colbert, as usual, your analysis is 100% wrong. No wonder you think Olbermann is a genius. You have zero reading comprehension skills and you're minus zero when it comes to critical analysis. No sane thinking person could read what I posted earlier and come to the conclusions you came to.

    TOTAL DAY:
    FNC 1,636,000
    CNN 1,267,000
    MSNBC 525,000


    Posted by: at April 17, 2007 11:28 PM


    TVNewser says the same thing, and has labeled it:

    The Scoreboard: Monday, April 16
    Update: 9:55pm: MSNBC data corrected.

    Geez...all of these Mike's... Mike, Keith Olbermann is in second to last. The only one trailing him is Matthews. WHY IS THAT??? What do both of those arrogant a-holes have in common??? Rational, reasonable people realize both are hacks who hate everything Bush or even remotely Bush related. When has Olbermann EVER had a so called analyst on his program that doesn't wholly agree with him?

    Sorry, the only truth problem is on your side of the aisle...

    No, nothing is beyond the Olbyloons. They preach to others about ethics but they don't have an ethical fiber in their being.

    And their attacks on me tonight clearly indicate that they know Olbermann bit the big one tonight in his comments which tried to demean the deaths of the college students in Virginia. But they will do anything to distract criticisim away from him and on to anything else they can possibly think of. Losers one and all.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have an early morning tee time.

    The "Worst Person" was the wrong man
    Sokoni is not Olby's fan
    Countdown's staff of hacks
    Don't need no stinkin' facts
    Or retractions from Man-On-Fan

    Oops, total day is calculated differently.

    I am talking about what TVNewser is saying about 25-54 yr old demo. Sorry.

    More like early morning pee time.

    Brandon, you don't know one damned thing about "you liberals"....just the pathetic stereotypes that have been pushed forth by the Hannity's and Limbaugh's for years.

    I too worked my way through school, and I have NEVER received a dime of governmant money in my life, that is, unless you consider my meager Air Force salary a government 'handout'

    The big difference between people like you and real liberals is that we actually CARE about things other than our own personal wealth. We actually CARE when a president is literally leading our country over a cliff. We actually CARE about that fellow down the street who just lost eveything he owns because of a health disaster that occured through no fault of his own. We actually CARE about those individual soldiers who are dying every day in a mindless war that should have never been entered into...and the outcome is going to be that same, no matter how many more soldiers we sacrifice in a vain attempt to try to save Bush's legacy.

    Yea Brandon...we actually care!

    Mike: Welfare is the least offensive government program. Brandon is silly.

    I see ratings have been posted several more times, and no one but me has mentioned that OLbermann's show had over 1,000,000 last night.

    Yes, I know everyone was up, but it is still dishonest to keep implying that the 525,000 figure you keep posting pertains to olbermanns' show.

    What's wrong with the complete truth for a change?

    Brandon,
    You tried to imply you were a military man and had to deny when called on it. No one believes your lies about being rich. You've brought it up before without being prompted. Rich people aren't as jealous and desperate to be recognized as being rich as you are. You're a fake. Have fun at your BK job.

    Actually Colbert, I'm perfectly willing to believe Brandon's boasting story about his wealth. He's might be the only one here who doesn't understand how shallow it exposed him to be....whether or not he is lying about it!

    Sharon,
    You're right. I can't imagine any conservative wanting Roe overturned. What a shocking concept. What idiot could ever think conservatives are against abortion?

    Colbert,

    Very few conservatives will outright campaign for overturning Roe v. Wade. That means no exceptions to abortions. Believe it or not, John Murtha is pro-life.

    Yea Brandon...we actually care!

    Posted by: Mike at April 17, 2007 11:40 PM


    Oh, yeah...the fraternity-faculty meeting in Animal House. I thought I remember that scene.

    Obama, I respect you a lot even though we have disagreed about some things.

    You may be the only one here who is willing to criticize BOTH sides, and call it as you see it, regardless of who it offends.

    Thanks for being honest!

    Colbert,

    Isn't there dignity in every legitimate job? What is wrong with someone flipping burgers at B.K.? Someone has to do it, at least until we reach the age of total robotics. Then I guess the programmers of the B.K. flippers will be ridiculed. What if Brandon did flip burgers for a living? Then it would be "Aha! Just like I thought!" How do you treat workers when you go to the grocery store or the gas station attendant taking your money? Do you accuse them of watching Fox Noise?

    I would hate to take a time out from the Brandon bashing, but Keith Olbermann has another a bad journalism alarm that he needs credit for:

    After all we know about the perpetrator --- very little conversation about him --- really sad that he would take the story just for the political angles primarily ...

    Just for you Mike- "The Complete Truth":
    Olberman is constantly DEAD LAST in the ratings. Spin it all you want, but he comes in BEHIND re-runs of Deal or No Deal!

    Mike, you can't HANDLE the truth.

    Thanks for the humor Cecelia. Did you see that you were referenced in the first post today by LMAO (who mysteriously has not posted again). You're a lifer here, in case you didn't know : )

    5.) Free time. Lots and lots of free time. When you don’t have command of the English language, the ability to type, the ability to debate, critical thinking skills, or a conscious, well you’d better have lots and lots of free time, because this ain’t gonna be easy. I’d like to give them an ‘A’ for effort, but working hard and dumb is so much less effective than working smart. Keep trying guys, you have plenty of time to get it right-about 4 more years to be exact.


    Posted by: LMAO at April 17, 2007 10:03 PM
    lmao, oh non original one, It looks like you have a lot of free time, yourself tom make the longest post of the week, by far. We know that wasn't off the top of your "head" either. Does your boss know you spent all day working on that pointless post?

    Mike, it's me Mike B... I hate to do this, but I'm going bitch slap you... not literally, but figuratively.

    Who are the liberal mouth pieces of this country? Olbermann is simply a facilitator. However, the Babs Streisand's, George Clooney's... The brilliant Sean Penn...No wait, GWENETH PALTROW.. She is geo-political genius!!! GENIUS!!! And let us not forget Rosie O... She has SUCH a grasp of world politics it continually amazes me why she never pursued a career in Washington DC...

    Okay, I'm now switching off the sarcasm..

    Here is why YOU liberals and said liberals listed above are dangerous.

    1) Liberals are appeasers. You and your ilk believe America is the bad guy. The idiot celebs listed above are what I call Internationalists... They are ex-patriots living in London or have villa's in the south of France that they frequent 6 months a year.. Hence, they bad mouth their country and claim to be enlightened. Why is Europe regularly trampled? Why has France needed the USA's help in EVERY WORLD WAR of the 20th century???

    2) liberals are true hypocrites. They tell you to reduce your "carbon footprint"... yet they buy bullsh-t "carbon offsets" so they can fly in their private jets and travel via limos... It is TOTAL bs... You either EMIT the co2 gas or you don't. Just because you do doesn't mean you can "buy" credits from someone who is driving the Prius and planting trees... Typical liberal double standards...

    3) They are elitists... They wouldn't give you the time of day or cross the street to dowse you with their bottles of evian if you were burning on the sidewalk. Liberals think anyone who loves their country is a "redneck" and stupid. Liberals believe they are BETTER than everyone else and the rest of us are too stupid to make the right decisions. In fact, if liberals had it their way, voting would be restricted.

    You see Mike, bottomline, liberals spit in the face of everything they espouse....Rosie claims "The Thought police are coming".. Yet she shouts down and bullies Elizabeth H. because she doesnt' agree with her. Liberals rail one fo their own, Imus, yet call the President the most vile things any President has ever been called.

    Wake up...

    Has anyone started a pool as to when and from which loon post the first accusation will appear that the tragedy at Virginia Tech was Bush plot to ensure that the testimony of Gonzalez delayed? Haven't seen it yet, but its just a matter of time.

    Response from Mike:
    "Crickets... more crickets... crickets..."

    I didn't say Olbermann did well comparatively. I SAID he had over 1,000,000 viewers, yet nobody who hates him will mention it.

    If he came in last, which he didn't, why not post his actual numbers, instead of implying they are even worse than they are?

    Once again, it's called fundamental honesty.

    I guess you would rather identify with a braggart like Brandon or an proven liar like Jeff, but once again, you've already showed your true colors.

    Posted by: Mike at April 17, 2007 11:29 PM
    What was it I lied about, so everyone can see what you bring up day after day when you can't make a logical point?

    Actually Colbert, I'm perfectly willing to believe Brandon's boasting story about his wealth. He's might be the only one here who doesn't understand how shallow it exposed him to be....whether or not he is lying about it!

    Posted by: Mike at April 17, 2007 11:47 PM


    If it's the truth, which you say you're willing to believe, how would it make Brandon shallow to say it, when he's accused about being poor and uneducated?

    You guys insult each other all day long, and you're right in there Mike, insulting Jeff's english, implying that he's a member of the underclass... etc... as he does you...

    But NOW you launch into affirmatiions about how much you care for poor and uneducated folks..... and all with the implication that other people don't...

    well...hell...you sure have a great way of showing it.... anyone who reads your stuff with Jeff can see that.

    You are utterly ridiculous.

    LMAO probably teases multiple websites and has no time just for us.

    Thanks for the humor Cecelia. Did you see that you were referenced in the first post today by LMAO (who mysteriously has not posted again). You're a lifer here, in case you didn't know : )

    Posted by: Sharon at April 17, 2007 11:56 PM


    Long screeds on the 'unworthiness of it all', are rather like critiques of opponent's grammar and spelling.... they're bound to come back around and bite you in the butt.

    In her case, for both matters, it only took as long as she needed to click the send button... :D

    As for me being a 'jerk'...you know the old saying about how it takes one to know one?

    I guess you would rather identify with a braggart like Brandon or an proven liar like Jeff, but once again, you've already showed your true colors.

    Posted by: Mike at April 17, 2007 11:29 PM
    "I know you are but what am I." How old are you, 55? Aren't you the prick that constantly mimicking people that say "clinton did it too" crap then you have the odacity to say that? Now we know you have completely run out of ideas and words.

    I didn't say Olbermann did well comparatively. I SAID he had over 1,000,000 viewers, yet nobody who hates him will mention it.

    If he came in last, which he didn't, why not post his actual numbers, instead of implying they are even worse than they are?

    Once again, it's called fundamental honesty.

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 12:02 AM

    Well, since posting comparative figures is dishonest, I suppose that will apply to TVNewser too.

    Did it ever occur to Mr. Honesty and Caring (Don't believe it? Just ask HIM...), that the numbers posted were the ones that the posters encountered and they hadn't come across yours?

    Funny How I just don't feel like I've been "Bitch slapped", Mr. "Mike B".

    I feel more like I just been given the standard conservative talking point lecture about 'liberals' that I've heard so many times I want to puke!

    First off NONE of thise folks mentioned are spokesmen for "liberal America", no matter how many times Rush Limbaugh tells you that they are.

    Sure, keep telling everyone that Rosie is our spokesperson, because thats exactly what you want to believe. Rosie speaks for herself and no one else.

    And try as you might, your side is totally incapable of stereotyping 'liberals'...neither can you stereotype their so call motives they way you people keep trumpeting you can do.

    Every liberal I know personally is a true patriot in every sense of the word, and they all defy your ridiculous stereotypes.

    So please spare us the tired old right wing talking points about 'liberals' that I've heard at least a thousand times.

    LMAO- please come back to Olbywatch often, even though it is at times painful.

    Brandon- LMAO hammered you tonight.

    LMAO probably teases multiple websites and has no time just for us.

    Posted by: Obama Watch Us Bicker Formerly in Technicolor at April 18, 2007 12:04 AM


    Oh, I'm sure that's true. Blogboards on the left or the right.

    Five will get you ten, that if she were an officer in the military, she'd be shot by her own troops.

    Cecelia....what 'occured' to me that they posted MSNBC's numbers, then they implied it was Olbermann's, and then made a direct comparison to O'Reilly's numbers.

    It 'occured' to me that if they were able to find O'Reilly's, they must have also been able to find Olbermann's, but they figured it would look even worse for KO if they just posted MSNBC's composite number.

    Once again...fundmental honesty! Is it just TOO much trouble to ask for that on this board?

    Clear now, little miss Nasty?

    1) Liberals are appeasers. You and your ilk believe America is the bad guy. The idiot celebs listed above are what I call Internationalists... They are ex-patriots living in London or have villa's in the south of France that they frequent 6 months a year.. Hence, they bad mouth their country and claim to be enlightened. Why is Europe regularly trampled? Why has France needed the USA's help in EVERY WORLD WAR of the 20th century???

    2) liberals are true hypocrites. They tell you to reduce your "carbon footprint"... yet they buy bullsh-t "carbon offsets" so they can fly in their private jets and travel via limos... It is TOTAL bs... You either EMIT the co2 gas or you don't. Just because you do doesn't mean you can "buy" credits from someone who is driving the Prius and planting trees... Typical liberal double standards...

    3) They are elitists... They wouldn't give you the time of day or cross the street to dowse you with their bottles of evian if you were burning on the sidewalk. Liberals think anyone who loves their country is a "redneck" and stupid. Liberals believe they are BETTER than everyone else and the rest of us are too stupid to make the right decisions. In fact, if liberals had it their way, voting would be restricted.

    Has this guy known lil mikey all of his life? He has him down to a "T." America is the bad guy-check. Hypocrite-check. Everyone is a redneck when they disagree-check. Self righteous prick-check. Yep, that's him. Check.

    Hypocrite Mike,

    First off NONE of thise folks mentioned are spokesmen for "liberal America", no matter how many times Rush Limbaugh tells you that they are. (you)

    Where did Mike B. state that he follows Rush Limbaugh? You stereotype as you complain of the stereotypes. That is why you are a hypocrite.

    Once again...fundmental honesty! Is it just TOO much trouble to ask for that on this board?

    Clear now, little miss Nasty?

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 12:27 AM

    No, Mr. Moral Colossus (Just ask HIM!).

    Both Drudge and TVNewers post the figures you deem dishonest and incomplete.

    Lets talk about fundamental honesty again:

    I believe every one of you Olbermann haters know full well that LMAO's post was outstanding....you just didn't like the content!

    Therefore not one of you were honest enough to admit it really WAS a good, well articulated post....just because you disagreed, or you felt like it was a personal 'attack' on you.

    But NOW you launch into affirmatiions about how much you care for poor and uneducated folks..... and all with the implication that other people don't...

    well...hell...you sure have a great way of showing it.... anyone who reads your stuff with Jeff can see that.

    You are utterly ridiculous.

    Posted by: Cecelia at April 18, 2007 12:04 AM
    Cecelia, it's called a "hypocrite." Plain and simple day in and day out.

    Sharon, if you want to communicate with me you need to refrain from the name calling.

    I have never done that to you so think again about that name you just called me.

    Lets talk about fundamental honesty again:

    I believe every one of you Olbermann haters know full well that LMAO's post was outstanding....you just didn't like the content!

    Therefore not one of you were honest enough to admit it really WAS a good, well articulated post....just because you disagreed, or you felt like it was a personal 'attack' on you.

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 12:36 AM


    Wow! Talk about a deflection....

    It was funny and we tried to reply in kind.

    You're still a jerk.

    Mike B. here Mike.. No, I would say I articulated the true liberal sentiments... A true patriot would not bad mouth their commander in chief during a time of war... A true patriot would say although I disagree with where we are now, I supported it to begin with and we need to win it. Are you listening Hillary??? The old Clinton template is simple to define.. "Hindsight is 20/20".. A true patriot respectfully disagrees... respectfully questions. The liberals couldn't spell respectful.

    You liberals started the foul discourse in 1967/1968 with Vietnam... Johnson was a liar... Nixon was a liar...Ford was a Liar.. .
    Carter was a genius... SHEER Genius.. Reagan was dumb and old... a real dolt.. GHW Bush was of the same cloth as Reagan. Clinton... OH MY LORD... The first black President, national healthcare.. the Internet... No one had a care in the world!!!! GW Bush... is the idiot, a dolt, a chicken hawk... can't speak, can't walk, couldn't find his ass with both hands according to Bill Maher...

    Please... Liberals think they are smarter than everyone else... and us rednecks are just stupid. We all like Skynrd and drive Dodges...

    "believe America is the bad guy"
    "liberals are true hypocrites"
    "They are elitists"

    royalking you covered every Bill O'Reilly talking point on liberals in one post. Very impressive. At least temporarily rent a mind of your own. You also managed to stereotype just as you accuse the left of stereotyping the right as "rednecks". So you're also a hypocrite.

    P.S. IT'S GREAT . . .TO BE . . . A FLORIDA GATOR! NATTY CHAMPS IN F-BALL AND 2X IN HOOPS!


    "Both Drudge and TVNewser post the figures you deen dishonest and incomplete".

    Did they both compare O'Reilly to MSNBC's composite, and then imply MSNBC's composite was Olbermann's?

    Little Miss Nasty!

    Hypocrite Mike,

    First off NONE of thise folks mentioned are spokesmen for "liberal America", no matter how many times Rush Limbaugh tells you that they are. (you)

    Where did Mike B. state that he follows Rush Limbaugh? You stereotype as you complain of the stereotypes. That is why you are a hypocrite.

    Posted by: Sharon at April 18, 2007 12:30 AM


    Not to mention his talking about rote posts against liberals, when after doing his "We Care" ridiculous sanctimony implying that his political opponent's DO NOT care.

    He has no idea what anyone here does or gives in their private life. Can you imagine being so presumptious and sanctimonious as to write a piece congratulating yourself at the expense of others!

    Oh yes, I was completely bowled over by the first two points:

    1.) A strong command of the English language.

    Sharon: Thanks teach! (when grammar rule explained)

    2.) The ability to type.

    Don't even go there.


    How about this point:

    Attacking someone for their hypocrisy while actively engaging in hypocrisy is certainly much easier without a conscience. SEE ABOVE 12:30 a.m.


    HYPOCRITE MIKE! Your hypocrisy just continues.

    "Both Drudge and TVNewser post the figures you deen dishonest and incomplete".

    Did they both compare O'Reilly to MSNBC's composite, and then imply MSNBC's composite was Olbermann's?

    Little Miss Nasty!

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 12:43 AM

    No, they just pased on the figures. Did it ever occur to you that it wasn't dishonesty at work in doing that, but a misunderstanding of what the figures meant, Oh Great Moral Colossus?

    And frankly, their essential point, that Olbermann was behind, was correct.

    How does Indierik know O'Reilly's talking points?

    Even with the breaking story bump Olbermann still bombs in the ratings game. It just goes to show that when people want news, they don't turn to a carnival barker buffoon like Keith Olbermann.

    HYPOCRITE MIKE! Your hypocrisy just continues.

    Posted by: Sharon at April 18, 2007 12:48 AM


    Not Mr I Care-Fundamental Honesty!

    Talk about wanting to puke...

    Mike,

    I just saw your post above about name calling. You in effect have done the same. I will addressing you as Hypocrite Mike because you asked, but I won't stop pointing out the hypocrisy.

    That should read "will stop calling ..."

    Mike B: "A true patriot would not bad mouth their commender in chief during a time of war"

    Glad you brought it up....THAT is the biggest crock of bullsh-t of all!

    And just WHO started this totally unnecessary war under false pretenses against the wrong enemy....could it possibly be the same commander in Chief we're not supposed to badmouth? Yea, I THOUGHT so!

    By THAT ridiculous logic, all a president has to do is start a war for any reason he deems fit, and the rest of us will just stand there at rapt attention and say nothing, because "we're at war".

    No "Mike B", a 'true' patriot speaks out for what he believes is right. A 'true' president speaks out for what is best for his country, not his president. A 'true' patriot speaks out when American soldiers are being killed daily for no logical reason. A 'true' patriot speaks out as the military is literally being depleted, severely limiting our ability to fight a REAL enemy. A 'true' patriot speaks out against dishonesty and incompetence, even if our president is the one displaying those traits...hell, ESPECIALLY when it's the president !

    The president is SUPPOSED to work for us and be responsive to the people. This one thinks he's a damned king.

    Sorry "Mike B", you're the one confused about the definition of a "true patriot".

    Mr Paragon of Virtue makes me sick.

    I'm going to bed.

    Grammie summed him up so adequately and completely.

    Nite, Sharon.

    A "hypocrite" is the LAST thing you are.

    Sharon, the essential point here was that I never called YOU names.

    You cannot possibly judge me for calling other posters names because you can't possibly know the full story...and in every case, they DID do it first.

    If you tell me that's no excuse, I will agree....but I am human.

    lil mikey, who's running people off? That would be you, prick/liar/hypocrite.

    Monday, April 17, 2007

    8PM - P2+ (25-54)
    O'Reilly Factor - 3,505,000 viewers (1,050,000)
    Situation Room - 2,587,000 viewers (1,338,000) **ran 8-8:15PM
    Paula Zahn- 1,999,000 viewers (1,033,000) **8:15-9PM
    Countdown w/ Olbermoronn - 1,062,000 viewers (523,000)

    How can this be? The unwatched Paula Zahn had 937,000 more viewers than Olbermoronn? Don't Olbermoronn's press releases (aka America's newspapers and magazines) routinely allege (with no evidence, of course) that Olbermoronn has a lock on "second place"? Can we expect to see a correction from that genius writing for the Cornell Alumni Magazine?

    The president is SUPPOSED to work for us and be responsive to the people. This one thinks he's a damned king.

    Sorry "Mike B", you're the one confused about the definition of a "true patriot".

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 1:00 AM
    So, when bj clinton was gettin hummers in the oval office, you consider that "working for us?" Letting OBL get away was "working for us?" Pardoning hard core criminals and some of his associates that should be in prison to this day was "working for us?" I beg to differ, again.

    The numbers from Monday show that, across the board, MSNBC has marginalized itself when it comes to viewers tuning in seeking ongoing coverage of breaking news like the VA Tech shootings, when the regular networks have gone back to their regular prime-time offerings.


    Conservatives naturally gravitate towards Fox, but liberals who actually want a little straightforward news head for CNN, and not MSNBC, despite their best efforts to target Keith as the champion of progressives everywhere (let alone the availability of the regular NBC network news coverage for such an event). Olbermann keeps his hardcore supporters, but attracts no one else, something the people who backed Air America no doubt discovered when all they could attract were the hardcore BDS types to tune in.


    These numbers have got to be scary for the top brass at NBC-Universal, since it suggests that Keith's pretty much hit a ceiling of viewers. The loyalists will support him, but less doctrinare liberals and the casual news watchers who only focus on major events head for Fox and CNN when news breaks out. And sticking Keith on the NFL pregame show, presumably in a bid to get him wider exposure, probably isn't gonig to help the situation either (though I'm really hoping for Reggie Bush to have a monster season, just for the fun of watching Olbermann have to battle like a junkie in detox not to make a disparaging reference to George W. Bush while mentioning Reggie's name on the afternoon game highlight show).

    Fox and CNN have more viewers than MSNBC because people want their news based on FACTS.

    An interesting pattern regarding Olbermann recurs repeatedly on this board, possibly on a daily basis.

    First, Johnny writes a slyly written 'recap' of Countdown with a clever mix of quotes and interpretations about what Olbermann supposedly said. The actual quotes intermixed with opinion are often incomplete, and therefore often lack the proper context.

    Before long, one of his Olbermann hating minions takes it upon themselves to add QUOTES to something Johnny had only implied, and then posts that in the comment section....along with the predictable tirade about how 'dispicable' that particular 'quote' was.

    Therefore, what started out as mere conjecture - someone's personal interpretation....magically becomes 'fact' in the minds of the Olbermann Haters. By golly, they 'know' what he 'said', and thats the way there gonna remember it!

    Here's a recent example:

    - Keith dares to mentions on the Monday night show the FACT that a controversial gun control statute limiting the number of rounds that can be built into a clip on the very type of gun the killer used had been allowed to expire by both Bush, AND Congress.

    When Johnny does the recap, it becomes simply that Bush was the one who allowed it to expire....and his cleverly worded summary goes on to IMPLY that Olbermann is 'claiming' that the severity of the VPI shootings would have been impacted by this. So far, not really THAT much of a stretch...certainly a defendable position on Olbermann's part, and one that could be easily argued by reasonable people.

    But then along comes Jeff....magically turning what had been mere conjecture into an actual quote....as in "Bush put the gun in his hand", in reference to the killer. Brandon and others made similar characterizations, but not QUITE as severe as Jeff's was.

    Now...suddenly, evil Keith Olbermann has now 'said' something he didn't say at all! Something that a reasonable person would rightfully call despicable and undefendable, and thats exactly the way the Olbermann haters 'remember' it from that point on. Their hate then perpetuates and intensifies, but is largely based on incorrect information.

    I could cite more recent examples, but you get the point.

    Now...suddenly, evil Keith Olbermann has now 'said' something he didn't say at all! Something that a reasonable person would rightfully call despicable and undefendable, and thats exactly the way the Olbermann haters 'remember' it from that point on. Their hate then perpetuates and intensifies, but is largely based on incorrect information.

    I could cite more recent examples, but you get the point.

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 8:47 AM


    No, it's based on an accurate interpretation of what Olbermann was implying, but an improper use of quotation marks in order to single out this as an "interpretion".

    Olbermann does imply that Bush and the Republican controlled congress bear a part of the responsibility for the type of weapon in the shooter's hand. The timing of Olbermann's remark (mere hours after the shootings) indicates the gravitas Olbermann feels this to have in the tragedy.

    Though this implication is clear, Olbermann DID NOT overtly state the words, ""Bush put the gun in his hand".

    Jeff, please look up the uses of quotation marks so this idiot will have to find another way to deflect from the seriousness of Olbermann's impiied accusations and (most significant to me...) from the way that Olbermann has amost never aired a defense from the people he has implicitly (or explicitly) acccused or from any spokesperson.

    Hey Mike, how about this pattern. Olbermann tells a lie. Then the lie is revealed. Olbermann never apologizes. And here's a recent (very) example for you. Night before last he claimed that Bush let the weapons ban expire that would have outlawed the type of magazines used in the shooting on Monday. That was WRONG. High-capacity magazines were never a part of the assault weapons ban. And after doing a bit of research, something KO never does, I learned the following about the types of weapons used in the attack on Monday: The Walther P22, is only available with a ten-round magazine. Extended magazines for this pistol do not exist. And the 9 mm Glock is typically purchased for target shooting, personal defense, and police deprtments. Although extended rounds do exist for these guns, when used, they dramatically changes the balance and weight of the gun, making it more difficult to shoot, and the extra length and weight make it all but impossible to carry in any practical manner. Extended magazines for Glocks do exist, but they are typically found only online or through catalogs and are rarely carried in most gun stores. The shooter Monday brought both his guns from a gun store. So when will KO acknowledge and correct his lie Mike? When will you?

    The Glock 9mm holds 17 rounds minimum, son...

    The assault weapons ban criminalizes magazines over 10 rounds...

    kaf, the chances of lil mikey retracting anything he spews are about as good as his hero, Ulbermahn, retracting or correcting anything he spews, slim to none! Not gonna happen, wouldn't be prudent......

    The Glock 9mm holds 17 rounds minimum, son...

    The assault weapons ban criminalizes magazines over 10 rounds...

    Posted by: at April 18, 2007 10:46 AM
    son, if you think any law in place would have stopped that S. Korean prozac takin' lunatic from killing anybody, you are as loony as he was!

    Cecelia, my mistake, which really wasn't a mistake, was quoting a piece of Johnnys recap. He said "all but handed the gun" and I used "put the gun in his hand." lil mikey, in his desperation to find even the slightest little slip was implying I was quoting his orange God, which I wasn't. I used the quotes to emphasize the words rather than use upper case letters. I need to remember their are a couple of "people" here that sit, foaming furiously while looking for the molecular grammer or typo mistakes. In this process of over reacting, the main point of most posts go totally by the wayside of these frothy posters.

    Of course I’m not the first to point out that Brandon’s debating skill equates to simple name calling. Well sure, I’d call everyone who disagreed with me crazy to
    Posted by: LMAO at April 17, 2007 10:03 PM
    It's "TOO" not "to" you dumbass demonut. LEARN the English language before you PREACH DEMONUT. Is Hoggie aka Rosie your DADDY?

    Royalking,

    Most substance-free garbage from your keyboard, eh son? I was answering KAF's lie. If you read something else in it, it is simply because the only man you can debate is a straw one, child...

    Personally I think Olbermann is mentally ill, but, I must say, the comments on this web site are a hoot. You guys are more entertaining than Krazy Keith himself!

    "...by the wayside of these frothy posters."

    'Frothy posters?' That's good and accurate. 'Frothy posters' is good. That is, I think, the best prose you have come up with royalking.

    I'm in credit where credit is due mode today.

    Wal-Mart is the creation of Southerners for you inbred rednecks
    Posted by: Colbert at April 17, 2007 10:29 PM
    So your hero's, peanutman and molesterman are REDNECK'S? Hey dumbassanut, what state's did that REDNECK Clinton come from, REDNECK CARTER? DAMN, your hero's are INBRED REDNECK'S. No wonder why you dumbassanut's have only won the Whitehouse 12 of the last 40 years. Damn REDNECK DUMBASSANUT'S, too inbred to win election's.

    "Personally I think Olbermann is mentally ill, but, I must say, the comments on this web site are a hoot. You guys are more entertaining than Krazy Keith himself!"

    Don't look cube. This joint is about as strange as they get. I'd advise you to look away now, before the oddness really drags you in. That's what happened to me.

    I'd advise you to look away now, before the oddness really drags you in. That's what happened to me.

    Posted by: VOK at April 18, 2007 12:10 PM


    That's it! A designation of OW Olbyloon obsession that even THEY will love.

    For them, OW is not an obsession, it's a fetish!

    "Personally I think Olbermann is mentally ill, but, I must say, the comments on this web site are a hoot. You guys are more entertaining than Krazy Keith himself!"

    Don't look cube. This joint is about as strange as they get. I'd advise you to look away now, before the oddness really drags you in. That's what happened to me.

    Thanks for the warning VOK, but I'm a big polyhedron. I can handle the perverse and the twisted.

    "Hey Mike, how about this pattern. Olbermann tells a lie. Then the lie is revealed. Olbermann never apologizes."

    Sounds just like many, it not most of the Olbermann smearers on this site.

    "Cecelia, my mistake, which really wasn't a mistake"....LOL!

    What else can you do but laugh when you read something like this?

    Thanks for the warning VOK, but I'm a big polyhedron. I can handle the perverse and the twisted.

    Posted by: cube at April 18, 2007 12:45 PM


    But can we resist all cube's straight lines...

    What else can you do but laugh when you read something like this?

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 12:56 PM

    If by "you", you mean yourelf, then the answer is that you can do nothing else.

    "Cecelia, my mistake, which really wasn't a mistake"....LOL!

    What else can you do but laugh when you read something like this?
    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 12:56 PM

    According to DairyQueen, it is a "typo"

    Haven't you ever pressed the "my mistake, which really wasn't a mistake" key accidentally?

    The lines are easy. The angles... not so much ;-)

    Alright...obviously the attempt to reorient you people to the fact that you are wallowing in garbage isn't working and may be backfiring.I get the sense it is strengthening your resolve to melt, thaw, and resolve yourself into an Olbermanic dew, on the ongoing Cecelian argument that anyone who tries to help insane people has an insanity fetish.

    Let's try the other approach to rehabilitation. There is good content upon which the pro and con Olbermania is based. If you were brought to focus on this base content, you could at least come around to acting like regular right wing people. So what I will try to do is check out the summary and point out the issues of actual content beneath the garbage. Then we can all talk about them. O.K.? O.K.

    I wish that stupid kid would have gone to MSNBC headqaurters and done all of society a favor by shooting Olbermahn rather than innocent VA Tech students so we wont have to hear his ignorant, 1 sided, politically biased and unintelligent BS comments about Fox and Bush! Knowing Olbermahn, he will find a way to blame Bush and Fox for his limp penis and needing Viagara to get it up. I wonder how 4 eyes feels to lose night in and night out to Bill O by 3-1, sometimes a 4-1 audience.

    First, comparing VTech to Iraq: There is no comparison to be made between American soldiers in Iraq and American students, and the very attempt is embarrassing. It is embarrassing because once again, even our supposed "leftist" spokesmen show the world that all Americans care about are American lives. In fact, this is not the discussion that goes on on the responsible left.

    Hundreds and probably thousands of Iraqi students have died in equally random violence in the vortex of Iraq, and even our supposed voices of conscientious objection, the very ones who recognize (as the rest of the world does) that the U.S. has a great load of responsibility for this, could give a ?#@! about them. The point where the irresponsible left and irresponsible right seem to meet these days is in disregard of the essential human dignity of all people. How many students died in Iraq today? The proper comparison is American students to Iraqi students.


    "Cecelia, my mistake, which really wasn't a mistake"....


    You're attributing Mike's interpretation of what I said to me, AAP.

    You and Mike can argue with each other while alternating roles. Just watch the quotation marks...

    The lines are easy. The angles... not so much ;-)

    Posted by: cube at April 18, 2007 1:11 PM

    We love geometry. Welcome to Olbermann Watch!

    Cecelia, my mistake, which really wasn't a mistake, was quoting a piece of Johnnys recap. He said "all but handed the gun" and I used "put the gun in his hand." lil mikey, in his desperation to find even the slightest little slip was implying I was quoting his orange God, which I wasn't. I used the quotes to emphasize the words rather than use upper case letters. I need to remember their are a couple of "people" here that sit, foaming furiously while looking for the molecular grammer or typo mistakes. In this process of over reacting, the main point of most posts go totally by the wayside of these frothy posters.

    Posted by: royalking at April 18, 2007 11:18 AM

    Full post above.

    Nope. I was replying to Mike and expanding on the idiocy of DairyQueen to excuse his "typos"

    My post to Mike:

    >"Cecelia, my mistake, which really wasn't a mistake"....LOL!

    What else can you do but laugh when you read something like this?
    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 12:56 PM

    According to DairyQueen, it is a "typo"

    Haven't you ever pressed the "my mistake, which really wasn't a mistake" key accidentally?
    Posted by: Average American Patriot at April 18, 2007 1:09 PM

    Got it?

    AAP,

    Yes, I do see. You weren't addressing that post to me. I'm sorry for the mistake.

    Let's see...the only other content seems to be the Justice Department madness. I can't tell from JD's summary what was actually said here, but the issue in this case is certainly not whether the President can appoint whomever he wants to the JD. It is whether prosecuters were pressured by Rove and the WH to bring "voter fraud" cases, time prosecutions with elections, and ease up on investigation of Republican malfeasance. The question is whether the firings were punishment for not helping turn the JD into a partisan election machine. The evidence seems pretty strong. There is a side question of whether the patriot act was being used to avoid oversight and confirmation.

    I don't know if the Commentator-who-shall-remain-nameless is taking this line or not, but that is the actual content of the controversy.

    Cecelia:

    O.K.

    Let's move on.


    I wonder how 4 eyes feels to lose night in and night out to Bill O by 3-1, sometimes a 4-1 audience.

    Posted by: Dan at April 18, 2007 1:16 PM

    I'm sure he feels pretty good considering Bill O's viewers are brain dead idiots much like you.

    I don't know if the Commentator-who-shall-remain-nameless is taking this line or not, but that is the actual content of the controversy.

    Posted by: VOK at April 18, 2007 1:29 PM


    Well, you're leaving another issue out. Is there any sort of law that makes politicizing the appointment and removal of judicial appointees illegal?

    If there is not and there needs to be, what sort of boundaries are going to be in place against any possible fishing expedition for such a thing in the future and will lines drawn now effect boundaries applied then.

    Cecelia, my mistake, which really wasn't a mistake, was quoting a piece of Johnnys recap. He said "all but handed the gun" and I used "put the gun in his hand." lil mikey, in his desperation to find even the slightest little slip was implying I was quoting his orange God, which I wasn't. I used the quotes to emphasize the words rather than use upper case letters. I need to remember their are a couple of "people" here that sit, foaming furiously while looking for the molecular grammer or typo mistakes. In this process of over reacting, the main point of most posts go totally by the wayside of these frothy posters.

    Posted by: royalking at April 18, 2007 11:18 AM
    Did I say anywhere in this post that I said the misquote was typo? un-American pat, I'm not sure who is worse for putting words in people's mouths, you or lil mikey. Wipe the slobber off of your face and read the ENTIRE post, really slow, maybe sound out each word so it sinks in. I hope you have some sort of plastic cover on your keyboard, it must be a mess. Can you say "mouth breather?"

    I'm sure he feels pretty good considering Bill O's viewers are brain dead idiots much like you.

    Posted by: at April 18, 2007 1:35 PM
    anonyloons-wheeeeeeee!!!!

    yes, I know royalking, only geniuses watch 4 eyes, considering how intelligent KO himself is.

    Comon folks, the only reason KO has the meager audience that he has is because they're tuning in for the inevitable day when
    the top of his head blows off.

    You can't bottle up that much mental illness, pompous megalomania, foam-flecked invective, and red-hot rage without the eventual *pop*.

    Okay, here's the rules:

    If you are quoting a statement that was actually uttered or written-- use quotation marks.

    If you're paraphrasing or interpreting do not use quotation marks.

    If you're quoting someone's interpretation or paraphrase of another's remarks, attribute it to person doing the quoting and paraphrasing... Johnny interprets Olbermann as saying".... Johnny paraphrased Keith remarks.


    If you're putting pejorative words and ideas in opponents' mouths, because they've failed to meet your expectations by actually expressing them.... use all caps.


    >>>"Well, you're leaving another issue out. Is there any sort of law that makes politicizing the appointment and removal of judicial appointees illegal?

    If there is not and there needs to be, what sort of boundaries are going to be in place against any possible fishing expedition for such a thing in the future and will lines drawn now effect boundaries applied then."

    I would say there is no such law and does not need to be. The patriot act addition, which unbenownst to most, provided an avenue by which judicial appointments can be made with no congressional review or oversight, is the loophole that made this possible, as I understand. It's a very weird addition. Just remove that part of the patriot act (or sink it altogether). Also I see no reason why the Executive shouldn't have to at least give a reason for firing to congress, complete with a performance record.

    This might be a "takes care of itself" kind of thing, kind of like hijacking planes into buildings. Once people realize this could be what is going on in judicial appointments, they simply aren't going to let it happen, and will rip up the party that tries it. Personally I think that's what will happen.

    >>Did I say anywhere in this post that I said the misquote was typo? un-American pat, I'm not sure who is worse for putting words in people's mouths, you or lil mikey. Wipe the slobber off of your face and read the ENTIRE post, really slow, maybe sound out each word so it sinks in. I hope you have some sort of plastic cover on your keyboard, it must be a mess. Can you say "mouth breather?"
    Posted by: royalking at April 18, 2007 1:48 PM

    BovineQueen keeps digging deeper...

    "Cecelia, my mistake, which really wasn't a mistake"

    Sure BovineQueen. No typos there. All the i's dotted and the t's crossed. Which doesn't excuse the pure, sheer idiocy of that sentence.

    As for your use of the "it's a typo" excuse, here is the definition of "typo":

    Pronunciation: 'tI-(")pO
    Function: noun
    Inflected Form(s): plural typos
    Etymology: short for typographical (error)
    : an error (as of spelling) in typed or typeset material

    I suggest you take an elementary school reading comprehension crash course before you attempt to use the word "typo," again, to try to excuse your illiteracy.

    From Bob Costas eulogy of Mickey Mantle: Can you imagine the crap KO is going to spew to keep up with this?

    As impossible as it seems, I think we are about to witness the wussification of football.

    ...Mickey Mantle had those dual qualities so seldom seen-exuding dynamism and excitement, but at the same time touching your heart-flawed, wounded. We knew there was something poignant about Mickey Mantle before we know what Poignant meant. We didn't just root for him, we felt for him.

    Long before many of us ever cracked a serious book, we knew something about mythology as we watched Mickey Mantle run out a home run through the lengthening shadows of a late Sunday afternoon at Yankee Stadium.

    pat/burger king, you are living proof of how ignorant people can actually be, when they try very hard to be so. Is it natural for you? Keep up the fine work.

    I may have to add a new rule to my Loon List. A loon rule concerning grammar as a way of diverting the argument away from the substance of the point that surely pointed out the loon's flawed thinking.


    1. Make things up about the person you are attacking: It’s important to make your lies sound true. Preface your argument with the word “clearly.” “Clearly, The Skipper is a liar, an a--hole and a neo-con to boot.”

    2. Be an armchair psychologist: You’re a smart person. You’ve heard of Freud. You took a psychology course in college. Clearly, you’re qualified to psychoanalyze your opponent. “Wardmama, by using the word ‘zucchini’ in her posting, shows she has a bad case of penis envy.”

    3. Cross-post your flames everywhere: Every conservative blogger on the net is just waiting for the next literary masterpiece to leave your terminal! From the Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiller Empire to VodkaPundit, they’re all holding their breath until your next flame. Therefore, post everywhere.

    4. Conspiracies abound: If everyone’s against you, the reason can’t *possibly* be that you’re a sh-thead. There’s obviously a conspiracy against you, and you will be doing the entire net a favor by exposing it.

    5. Lawsuit threats: This is the reverse of Rule #4 (sort of like the Yin & Yang of Flaming). Threatening a lawsuit is always considered to be in good form. “By saying that I’ve posted to the wrong group, Bertha has libeled me, slandered me, and sodomized me. See you in court, Bertha.”

    6. Force them to document their claims: Even if George Bush states outright that he likes tomato sauce on his pasta, you should demand documentation. If Newsweek hasn’t written an article on Bush’s pasta preferences, then Bush is obviously lying.

    7. Use foreign phrases: French is good, but Latin is the lingua franca of flaming. You should use the words “ad hominem” at least three times per article. Other favorite Latin phrases are “ad nauseum,” “veni, vidi, vici,” and “fettuccini alfredo.”

    8. Tell ‘em how smart you are: Why use intelligent arguments to convince them you’re smart when all you have to do is tell them? State that you’re a member of Mensa, or Mega, or Dorks of America. Tell them the scores you received on every exam since high school. “I got an 800 on my SATs, LSATs, GREs, MCATs, and I can also spell the word ‘neanderthal’ .”

    9. Accuse your opponent of censorship: It is your right as an American citizen to post whatever the hell you want to the net (as guaranteed by the 37th Amendment, I think). Anyone who tries to limit your cross-posting or move a flame war to email is either a communist, a fascist, or even worse ... a “neo-con”.

    10. Doubt their existence: You’ve never actually seen your opponent, have you? And since you’re the center of the universe, you should have seen them by now, shouldn’t you? Therefore, THEY DON’T EXIST! This is the beauty of Liberals’ logic.

    11. Don’t hold back: Lie, cheat, steal, leave the toilet seat up. Leave no stone unturned. Hate everything. Attack them all. As a last resort you may even quote heavy metal rock lyrics to justify your argument. Nine Inch Nails is good. Twisted Sister is better.

    12. When in doubt, insult: If you forget the other 11 rules, remember this one. At some point during your wonderful career as a Liberal troll you will undoubtedly end up in a flame war with someone who is better than you. This person will expose your lies, tear apart your arguments, make you look generally like a freaking retard. At this point, there’s only one thing to do: INSULT THE DIRTBAG!!! “Oh yeah? Well, your mother does strange things with vegetables.”

    This might be a "takes care of itself" kind of thing, kind of like hijacking planes into buildings. Once people realize this could be what is going on in judicial appointments, they simply aren't going to let it happen, and will rip up the party that tries it. Personally I think that's what will happen.

    Posted by: VOK at April 18, 2007 2:22 PM


    Well, that's pretty much what has happened. Now, it seems to have boiled down to staving off political embarrassment, fights to keep people from having to testify under oath so they can be vulnerable to perjury if someone else testifies differently, and future legal battles over executive/congressional branch boundaries.

    It is clear now to anyone with half a brain, that would be gifted liberal, that Olbermann is just a parrot for the Hillary campaign and the George Soros funded Media Matters. Keith's fable about the assault weapons ban has been proven to be a complete lie. Clips over ten rounds were never illegal to buy, own, or sell. The clips over ten rounds were only illegal to manufacture. Since they were illegal to manufacture, before the Ban went into place, the gun manufactures produced excess clips so that dealers could still sell them since it was not illegal to buy, own, or sell them. So all you libs little assault weapons ban was nothing more than a paper tiger. It was perfectly legal for the VT killer to by a clip with more that ten round capacity under the toothless assault weapons ban.

    Every member of my MENSA chapter, even the few members who received less than 800 on their SAT's, knows George W. Bush likes his pasta tossed with olive oil and Romano and topped with roasted pine nuts bottles and washed down with a couple of Frascati. Tomato sauce, indeed! Sounds like something George W. Bush would say to make us think he is an average guy. Did he tell you that or are you the source of this shameful distortion?

    Check out the Rush Limbaugh website. He has a poll up that asks which prime time anchor should resign to make room for a minority host. I think Olbermann is progressive enough to see he needs to step aside to make room for a minority host.

    Well, your mother does strange things with vegetables.”


    Posted by: Loon at April 18, 2007 3:25 PM


    Attribution might be a good rule too, Loon.

    I've read that somewhere before, was it here or another blog?

    Every member of my MENSA chapter, even the few members who received less than 800 on their SAT's, knows George W. Bush likes his pasta tossed with olive oil and Romano and topped with roasted pine nuts bottles and washed down with a couple of Frascati. Tomato sauce, indeed! Sounds like something George W. Bush would say to make us think he is an average guy. Did he tell you that or are you the source of this shameful distortion?

    Posted by: at April 18, 2007 3:39 PM


    hahahahaha!!

    I may have to add a new rule to my Loon List. A loon rule concerning grammar as a way of diverting the argument away from the substance of the point that surely pointed out the loon's flawed thinking.

    This should be rule #1, it covers the "divert" card as well, the second most popular olby/anonyloon tactic. Blame, scapegoat and the ole divert cards. No need to use the other 49 cards when you have these 3. The "race" card is the 4th favorite, but, it only comes out when immigration or muslims are the topic. If you're against illegal immigration, you're a racist. If you don't defend the terrorists, you're a racist, bla, bla, bla.

    "Well, that's pretty much what has happened."

    I don't really think that is what has happened YET, but I think it probably will. It would take a long time to follow out all the threads of the civil-servant deck-stacking that has gone on. But I'm guessing '08 will be an ungodly bloodbath returning us to the evils of one-party rule... right after we just escaped. And then we'll be in full blown Truth and Reconciliation mode ala Bagdad.

    What will be most interesting to me in this mess is whether the WH jettisons Gonzo, which would be the obvious thing to make this go away and keep people from following tentacles and talking about Regent University and so forth. But that should have already happened. At the start of this they still could have gone with the "honest mistake/bad handling" thing, had Gonzo fall on his sword, and probably been done with it. Why are the clinging to him?

    I'm a Gulf War Vet, and the last thing I want is the "support" of an absolutely worthless traitor, like Keith Undermanned, here.

    His "support" is completely cynical, just like every other opinion he espouses.

    You want to support the troops? Support the mission, or grab a nice, steaming cup of shut the hell up.

    I like to repost my loon rules for debate to help give you a window into the mind of someone who is completely bat sh-t crazy. I have posted these before.

    "His "support" is completely cynical, just like every other opinion he espouses."

    No, I believe that his opinion that his ratings should be higher is genuine. Just like everyone else on TV and radio. Although he may not care anymore since he got that fat contract.

    What did you do in the war there, CDR Brian?

    "....fights to keep people from having to testify under oath so they can be vulnerable to perjury if someone else testifies differently"

    That's a new one. I thought perjury was lying. It's just "testifying differently?"

    CDR Brian,
    I just came back from a year on the ground in Iraq and Keith is spot-on in his criticism. The war is unwinnable. The Iraqi police and army are corrupt and inept, the insurgents enjoy the protection of the people, and we don't have nearly enough people to control the country. Insurgents pour across every border completely unchecked by any Iraqi forces, weapons and ordnace pour in, and while I would hope there is a limit to how many Americans we are willing to sacrafice in this ill begotten war, the insurgents and people of Iraq have no such limits. Brian, you had a nice clean war with plenty of troops for the job, armor and weapons aplenty, and an actual plan for victory and an exit strategy but this generation of warriors don't. Todays troops roll their eyes at people like you who think they have some credibility just because you took part in a weekend war. I'VE BEEN THERE! I know what I'm talking about when I say Keith has it right. You can surge and control Baghdad for awhile but as soon as we leave, it's gonna go to s**t. And for that we should be expected to needlessly sacrifice ourselves? I signed up to defend my country, not to be slaughtered because a President and Congress screwed up in their rush to war. Don't be stupid. I despise "My country right or wrong" types like you. The only thing you accomplish is getting troops killed by your innaction.

    That's a new one. I thought perjury was lying. It's just "testifying differently?"

    Posted by: VOK at April 18, 2007 4:56 PM


    It depends on whether you want to believe and prosecute Scooter Libby or Tim Russert.

    From the poisen pen of CDR Brian - illustrating the madness of many right wingers:

    (1) - "I'm a Gulf War Vet, and the last thing I want is the "support" of an absolutely worthless traitor , like Keith Undermanned here." & (2) - "You want to support the troops? Support the mission, or grab a nice steaming hot cup of shut the hell up".

    (1) - Brian, what the hell gives YOU the right to call other Americans 'traitors' or determine who "supports the troops', and who doesn't? You think being a 'veteran' of that short little war somehow gives you the moral authority to do that? Trust me Brian, it doesn't!

    Now let ME define what is traitorous: To sit back in your easy chair and cheer on the troops who are DYING day after day in an out for no discernable reason other than to try to save the legacy of a failed president. THAT is a far better definition of a 'traitor' than your's is.

    Iraq is going to end up with the same end result whether we stay indefinitely and continue to deplete our military even further, or whether we leave....Meanwhile what if we have to face down a real enemy?

    Also Brian...check out John's post at 5:21, if you haven't done so....for a little more perspective.

    Here is a new one for your list Loon.
    # 13
    Claim that you were a solider in Iraq and that you know "what it is really like over there". Then give a long sermon with the same buzzwords that all the liberals use on KOS and Huffo like "ill begotten war" and "rush to war" and "plan for victory and an exit strategy". Then smile to yourself and think that you have convinced
    someone.

    Loon, no need to repost any more of your meaningless talking point right wing put downs....if you really want to see someone who is "bat sh-t crazy", you might just try taking a good long look in your own mirror.

    "It depends on whether you want to believe and prosecute Scooter Libby or Tim Russert."

    Gosh I didn't realize the United States had become such a bananna republic. I thought you had to have a trial by jury and have all of them consider all the evidence and unanimously agree that you were lying. Turns out if anyone says anything differently than you in sworn testimony they just flip a coin and imprison whoever calls heads! Gosh no wonder the administration wants to overhaul the justice system!

    Why is the olbyloons and liberals in general commonly refer to facts as "talking points?" At what point do they make the mysterious transition?

    No Factor, no ones going to convince you anything unless their last name is O'Reilly.

    The good thing is that no one HAS to convince you of anything. You're one of those illogical 20 - 30% of hard core stalwarts who will keep their heads burried in the sand and will never be convinced of reality....right up until you march right over the cliff along with all the other hardcore stalwarts.

    I love your tactic of implying that John is a liar because he just broke your beloved stereotype. Don't like the message...just call the messanger a liar.

    Typical!

    No Factor, no ones going to convince you anything unless their last name is O'Reilly.

    The good thing is that no one HAS to convince you of anything. You're one of those illogical 20 - 30% of hard core stalwarts who will keep their heads burried in the sand and will never be convinced of reality....right up until you march right over the cliff along with all the other hardcore stalwarts.

    I love your tactic of implying that John is a liar because he just broke your beloved stereotype. Don't like the message...just call the messanger a liar.

    Typical!

    lil mikey, what gives you the right to post here? When you answer this question, it should answer your own questions in your 5:41 spew. Self-righteous prick. I didn't know that a war had to be a certain length for a soldier that served there had any moral ground. Is there no end to your odacity and ignorance? Let me see, you complain because the Iraq war is dragging on, yet, the Gulf War was just a "short little war." Our daily dose of lil mikeys hypocrisy. Will there be more today? Stay tuned, there probably will be.

    love your tactic of implying that John is a liar because he just broke your beloved stereotype. Don't like the message...just call the messanger a liar.

    Typical!

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 5:54 PM

    No John is a liar because he uses the same left wing talking points that Olbermann uses and no one in the military would ever watch Olbermann. You are a fool for believing some left wing coward was in the military. Keep praying for diplomacy with terrorists and I will watch you go over the cliff with the rest of the cowards.

    Factor, I can think of one officer that may have been an Ulbermahn fan, he's headed for the brig, Watada is his name.

    Gosh the veterans are just flittering in and out today. I can hardly get my hand back down from saluting one before that one is gone and another one walks in!

    It depends on whether you want to believe and prosecute Scooter Libby or Tim Russert."

    Gosh I didn't realize the United States had become such a bananna republic. I thought you had to have a trial by jury and have all of them consider all the evidence and unanimously agree that you were lying. Turns out if anyone says anything differently than you in sworn testimony they just flip a coin and imprison whoever calls heads! Gosh no wonder the administration wants to overhaul the justice system!

    Posted by: VOK at April 18, 2007 5:45 PM


    It'd be easier keeping Britney Spears away from Jack Daniels and crack, than it would for you to resist the ole morally outraged screed. Especially as it regards the opportunity for spouting what's tidy...rather than the real picture.

    Who implied that there wasn't a jury process involved? However, prosecutors do decide who they wish to prosecute and who they don't, last I heard. This process isn't just about the fact that a lie might have been told. It's who told it, and how important are they.

    When you're working for the big wig, any prosecutor congress decides it needs, is coming after you. Hire the attorney and hope for a sympathetic jury, like anyone facing the heat.

    That might be "the rest of the story" beyond the Civics courses, but trust me, it's a reality of which every Administration is aware. So is every Congress.

    Mike is completely disgusting. Completely. First, I am curious as to why suddenly this John and CDR Brian have appeared. If they post again, I'll be more open to believing they are who they say. But back to the point. Mike obviously believed they were who they claimed. To belittle a veteran for serving in a war that he believes doesn't make the cut is abhorrent. I can't believe I ever had any respect for Mike. He doesn't exist for me anymore. I wish you all would just ignore him. I truly believe he is mentally unstable. And the tragedy of this past week shows just what mentally unstable people are capable of.

    Factor bullsh-t again: "no one in the military would ever watch Olbermann."

    And how the hell would YOU know that Factor?...because O'Reilly told you so?
    Man do you ever keep your head stuck in the sand.

    Funny how I Bet you sure as hell believed Brian's claim to be a Gulf War Vet, but you rejected John's claim. Why? Because Brian used the talking points you want to hear... and John didn't.

    Factor nonsense again: "you were a fool for believing some left wing coward was in the military"..

    Well Factor, I can't personally PROVE that John was in the military, but I sure as hell can prove I was in the military (during wartime)....and I certainly believe John was as well. I also know someone right here in Red State America who has just returned from Iraq, and you wouldn't want to hear what HE has to say about it either.

    Keep covering your ears Factor, it'll all go away if you just hold your hands over them and kep shouting Ya ya ya long enough!

    By the way, Factor...were YOU in the military?

    No, I believe that his opinion that his ratings should be higher is genuine. Just like everyone else on TV and radio. Although he may not care anymore since he got that fat contract.

    What did you do in the war there, CDR Brian?

    Posted by: VOK at April 18, 2007 4:40 PM


    A response that is essentially a restating of CDR Brian's point.

    Sure Sharon, you go back and review Brian's post calling other people 'traitors'.... and tell me again that you actually respect that? '

    I can't believe I ever had any respect for you either!


    YOU are a far, far, far bigger hypocrite than you claim I am, and you've got your head stuck so far up your hiney that you can't even see straight anymore.

    Don't pretend to lecture me, little Mrs. English Teacher, because you can't hold a candle to my service to my country, my experience, or even my judgement!

    In Great Britain and many of its former colonies, “judgement” is still the correct spelling; but ever since Noah Webster decreed the first E superfluous, Americans have omitted it. Many of Webster’s crotchets have faded away (each year fewer people use the spelling “theater,” for instance); but even the producers of Terminator 2: Judgment Day, chose the traditional American spelling. If you write “judgement” you should also write “colour.”

    Sharon writes, "Mike is completely disgusting."

    Well, sure.

    Sharon adds " I truly believe he is mentally unstable."

    Well, sure.


    Sharon concludes, "And the tragedy of this past week shows just what mentally unstable people are capable of."

    Weeellll.... Sharon, Mike wasn't the only person to play bash the vet who differs from me. Factor did as well. They're both acting like apes.

    Hey Mikey. Your false piety is absolutely nauseating. You claiming this empathy for "the soldiers" and your wanting to bring them home is so self serving at the point of ridiculing others who disagree is so self serving that Noam Chomski thinks you're a self loather.

    Does it make you feel better to "feel someone else's pain" when there is no pain to be felt, and they don't want your f---ing empathy in the first place?

    Just because you were in the military means absolutely nothing to me. You are a hater. You have always been a hater. It is easier for you to hate than it is for you to take a look in the mirror. Hate makes you feel smart. Seeing the glass as always half empty is so easy. Let me guess America is going to "hell in a handbasket" Reagan was going to start WWIII.

    You're so predictable its embarassing.

    Mike is completely disgusting. Completely. First, I am curious as to why suddenly this John and CDR Brian have appeared. If they post again, I'll be more open to believing they are who they say.

    Sure Sharon, you go back and review Brian's post calling other people 'traitors'.... and tell me again that you actually respect that? '

    MORON ALERT: WHERE IN TARNATION DO THE WORDS "RESPECT BRIAN" APPEAR? OH, I GUESS QUESTIONING BRIAN'S TRUE PERSON HOOD IMPLIES RESPECT!

    Sharon said: "Mike obviously believed they were who they claimed"

    What a telling quote that is Sharon. It says SO much about you that you could never have put into words.

    I believed them BOTH Sharon because I don't believe anyone is a liar until they prove otherwise. To call someone a liar, or question their authenticy when you don't have one shread of proof the the contrary is morally reprehensible...and is a lie in itself!

    It sounded like you not only questioned the validity of both of those posters, but it even sounds like you think you know who they might REALLY be.

    Great thanks Jeff!

    Don't pretend to lecture me, little Mrs. English Teacher, because you can't hold a candle to my service to my country, my experience, or even my judgement!

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 6:44 PM


    You're so ridiculous.

    Just compare the nature of the two posts (Factor and Mike). Which one appears to be pushing buttons and which one is going off the deep end?

    Posted by: at April 18, 2007 6:49 PM


    Posted by Cecelia

    Sorry.

    And Sharon, which one is calling someone a liar without a shread of proof?

    I'm glad YOU find that admirable. It says much about your own character!

    If you write “judgement” you should also write “colour.”
    Posted by: Sharon at April 18, 2007 6:46 PM

    Oh brother.....

    As despicable as the one called Mike is, I have not nor would I ever question his military background. Some time ago, another poster came on defending the war, claiming to be actively serving. I questioned him also because he was not one of the crowd. I asked him to respond again if he was who he claimed and requested that he get his friends to post as well. He never responded.

    Addendum, the poster defended the war and bashed Olbermann.

    "He doesn't exist for me anymore."

    Double Oh brother...

    Did Mike used to exist for you Sharon?

    I'm sure he's pretty broken up about this new development...

    Once again Crash, YOU people are the 'haters', not people like me!

    And Crash, You say the the troops "don't want your (my) f---ing empathy". How the hell do YOU know what "they want"? You people are so quick to put words in the mouths of "the troops' as long as it fits your own selfish purposes.

    I've got news for you 'Crash', "the troops' are all individuals who each have their own opinions, bias, and ideas, just like the rest of us, and try as you might, you cannot possibly speak for 'the troops".

    One more young American life cut short for no comprehensible purpose is one too many!

    "To belittle a veteran for serving in a war that he believes doesn't make the cut is abhorrent."

    Now I am in a bad mood. Sharon I have to ask are really this stupid? I mean are you a total f---ing nimrod?

    Here is what Mike wrote:

    "Now let ME define what is traitorous: To sit back in your easy chair and cheer on the troops who are DYING day after day in an out for no discernable reason other than to try to save the legacy of a failed president."

    He is not beliting veterans. he belitting people who cheer for a war but are unwilling to make sacrifices themselves. READ IT AGAIN IF YOU DON"T BELEIVE ME. You were an english teacher basic reading comprehension should not be beyond you.


    Anon,

    The "Judgement" was just a jest. I don't care about misspellings, word usage. Mike is the one who makes a big deal about that. Mie and I used to have civil debate until he twice attacked me with no provocation. The first time, he realized his mistake and apologized. The next time, he just dug in. Showing him his own words when he denied it had no effect.

    Yes, anon 7:04...I guess Sharon doesn't exist anymore for me either. I'm going to try to carry on while not burdening those around me with my grief, but it is going to be tough for a while.

    that is Mike-not Mie

    enough said.

    Good points, Cecelia, about the Scooter Libby incident. Goodling should be afraid to take the stand because if she does forget some fact inadvertently, will it be seen as inadvertent?

    Craigs,

    This is what triggered the comment:

    You think being a 'veteran' of that short little war somehow gives you the moral authority to do that? Trust me Brian, it doesn't!

    Just compare the nature of the two posts (Factor and Mike). Which one appears to be pushing buttons and which one is going off the deep end?

    Posted by: Sharon at April 18, 2007 6:54 PM


    Well, he has those speeches in his documents file and waits for the moment when he can cut-n-paste. They just read like he's finally flipped into complete psychosis and is doing a Robert Altman movie but it's really all lame and calculated.

    It's aggravating, but I don't think he did any more than Factor.

    He is not beliting veterans. he belitting people who cheer for a war but are unwilling to make sacrifices themselves. READ IT AGAIN IF YOU DON"T BELEIVE ME. You were an english teacher basic reading comprehension should not be beyond you.


    Posted by: craigs at April 18, 2007 7:06 PM


    See, Sharon. He wasn't calling CD a traitor, just anyone who backs the war and isn't over there fighting.

    Feel better now...

    "Good points, Cecelia, about the Scooter Libby incident. Goodling should be afraid to take the stand because if she does forget some fact inadvertently, will it be seen as inadvertent?"

    It was inadvertent? Gosh, because a jury of 12 people who heard arguments from both sides and were privy to all this information presented by the defense, and the prosecution, and knowing that a man is innocent until proven guilty, came unanimously to the conclusion that it was deliberate and not inadvertent and therefore perjury. But you would know as all Republicans are innocent.

    Well Factor, I can't personally PROVE that John was in the military, but I sure as hell can prove I was in the military (during wartime)....and I certainly believe John was as well. I also know someone right here in Red State America who has just returned from Iraq, and you wouldn't want to hear what HE has to say about it either.

    Keep covering your ears Factor, it'll all go away if you just hold your hands over them and kep shouting Ya ya ya long enough!

    By the way, Factor...were YOU in the military?

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 6:36 Why do you believe John? Because he used the talking points you wanted to hear? The second part of your post is right out of the olbyloon playbook, perfect. Keep shinin'.

    Sharon, I say I never 'attacked' you at all! You'll have to remind me once again when, and how I 'attacked' you, because I say you must be way too sensitive if you really think I 'attacked' you. but you sure as hell did call me a 'hypocrite', not to mention 'despicable'....with NO provocation.

    As for the spelling, Sharon...that was all about making ANOTHER point entirely, and that obviously all went right over your head, didn't it? This is why you should never try to judge a poster by how you think they are responding to anyone other than yourself, because you will always be missing SOMETHING.

    Good points, Cecelia, about the Scooter Libby incident. Goodling should be afraid to take the stand because if she does forget some fact inadvertently, will it be seen as inadvertent?

    Posted by: Sharon at April 18, 2007 7:09 PM

    They're going to give her impunity to allay those fears.

    But as to your question, no, it wouldn't.

    That would apply if the parties of congress and the prez were reversed. Especially if you had some prosecutor like Fitzgerald appointed to investigate.

    As for the spelling, Sharon...that was all about making ANOTHER point entirely, and that obviously all went right over your head, didn't it? This is why you should never try to judge a poster by how you think they are responding to anyone other than yourself, because you will always be missing SOMETHING.

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 7:16 PM
    You really should take your own advice. How long before you call Sharon a bitch, too?

    So Craigs,

    I don't think I am a nimrod for defending any veteran of Gulf I. A few months ago, there was much discussion about how one has no right to an opinion unless one is serving or has a loved one serving. Then Barbara Boxer's comment to Sec. Rice exploded and the issue basically dropped from here. I don't care if someone has a different view than me, but I don't believe there are qualifications to be met before voicing an opinion.

    It was inadvertent? Gosh, because a jury of 12 people who heard arguments from both sides and were privy to all this information presented by the defense, and the prosecution, and knowing that a man is innocent until proven guilty, came unanimously to the conclusion that it was deliberate and not inadvertent and therefore perjury. But you would know as all Republicans are innocent.

    Posted by: craigs at April 18, 2007 7:16 PM


    I think you need to go back and look at your post about misreading, Major.

    Sharon that's even worse. Look at the full context of that comment.

    Brian, what the hell gives YOU the right to call other Americans 'traitors' or determine who "supports the troops', and who doesn't? You think being a 'veteran' of that short little war somehow gives you the moral authority to do that? Trust me Brian, it doesn't!

    He is not calling brian a traiter there, he is saying that brian does not have the moral authority to call others traitors.

    Mikey you arrogant dumbass prick.

    You claim you care about the soldiers individuality, but then you say: "One more young American life cut short for no comprehensible purpose is one too many!" As if they don't know or aren't smart enough to know, or whatever they think means nothing. You get to decide what is and isn't comprehensible? How respective of the soldiers INDIVIDUAL opinion?

    BTW. You are a f---ing liar. No soldier ever would assume that some other soldiers would welcome your empathy. If you ever served in the military, you would know that.

    f---in liberals. You are a walking, talking oxymoron. You profess that you care about individuality while pointing to the ideas of the collective to make your point. What a dumbsh-t.

    "I think you need to go back and look at your post about misreading, Major"

    Why? the "good point" about Libby seems to imply the man was convicted for inadvertantly mis speaking and others could share the same fate.

    Cecelia,

    This site was shut down when the Libby verdict came down so another Olby incident was missed. He made heated statements about how the jury sent a message to this Administration, blah blah blah. It soon became clear that the jurors were not going to make any public statements condemning the Bush Administration. Not only that, one juror spoke about how sorry she felt for Libby and said she didn't want him to go to jail. Needless to say, there were no more promised stories about how the jurors were sending a message.

    P.S. Good to have you back Fatass!

    Crash: Do you REALLY think lacing your posts with profanity accentuates your point in any way?

    And once again, 'Crash', you can't possibly speak for each individual soldier like you keep trying to do.

    Do 'I' get to decide what is and isn't comprehensible? Well obviusly I don't! But neither do you. Also, your 'point' about 'the collective' was absolutely ridiculous at best.

    Why? the "good point" about Libby seems to imply the man was convicted for inadvertantly mis speaking and others could share the same fate.

    Posted by: craigs at April 18, 2007 7:24 PM


    Nope, that wasn't the case. The point is one CAN misspeak. Whether you're Libby or Russert...who first stated that Libby could have talked to him about Plame and then later recanted and said that Libby had not.

    If that sort of dispute is between any govt official be they Dem or Republican, who do you think they'll go after...

    It's that reality we're discussing. The Libby case is just an analogy. You have a better one, we'll use it.

    "If that sort of dispute is between any govt official be they Dem or Republican"

    between a govt official or staffer and someone who is not an official or staffer, I mean.

    Craigs, Sharon has obviously lost all ability to see context. Months ago that didn't seem to be the case...but it clearly is now.

    Craigs, Sharon has obviously lost all ability to see context. Months ago that didn't seem to be the case...but it clearly is now.

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 7:32 PM


    Well, that's three women here who have lost any confidence in you whatsoever.

    You might try to ask yourself a hard question occasionally, Mike.

    P.S. Good to have you back Fatass!

    Posted by: craigs at April 18, 2007 7:26 PM


    I've been called the b-word, the c-word, and the f-b word, just today.

    Fatass is sort of polite. You sure you're a liberal male, Major?

    Cecelia,

    This site was shut down when the Libby verdict came down so another Olby incident was missed. He made heated statements about how the jury sent a message to this Administration, blah blah blah. It soon became clear that the jurors were not going to make any public statements condemning the Bush Administration. Not only that, one juror spoke about how sorry she felt for Libby and said she didn't want him to go to jail. Needless to say, there were no more promised stories about how the jurors were sending a message.

    Posted by: Sharon at April 18, 2007 7:25 PM


    hahaha! Sort of like what he did with the habeas corpus ruling.

    Cec,

    Let me make sure I am clearly understanding your point. It seems to me the argument is that in the case of Libby and Russert, both made statements that were contradictory and that the Prosecution made a choice to go after Libby, leaving Russert alone. meaning in other circumstances when a ripe political target is avilible they are likely to be the scope of an investigation and a person of lesser importance who does not score as high in the ability to shame political opponents is left alone. Just to be clear am I summarizing this point fairly?

    Let me S P E L L it out for you M I K E Y.

    On one hand you say you care about the INDIVIDUAL opinion of the soldier.

    Then you say they are there for no comprehensible purpose, which obviously suggests that you don't care what they think.

    So do you really care. I bet you know better for them than they know for themselves. Nope. Nothing collectivist about that.

    I have never claimed to know what they what they (the soldiers) think. I just happen to know that you can't possibly empathize with the soldiers who think they are doing a noble thing. To you, it is incomprehensible. So just shut up about it.

    Stick to your loony conspiracy theories.

    "Fatass is sort of polite. You sure you're a liberal male, Major?"

    Through and through, although I have a fairly strong libertarian streak.

    Let me make sure I am clearly understanding your point. It seems to me the argument is that in the case of Libby and Russert, both made statements that were contradictory and that the Prosecution made a choice to go after Libby, leaving Russert alone. meaning in other circumstances when a ripe political target is avilible they are likely to be the scope of an investigation and a person of lesser importance who does not score as high in the ability to shame political opponents is left alone. Just to be clear am I summarizing this point fairly?

    Posted by: craigs at April 18, 2007 7:41 PM


    You are stating it fairly to what I'm saying. But not fairly as to the Libby trial per se, because in order to prove that Libby lied, Fitzpatrick had to prove he had a motive to lie-- protecting the VP.

    But that's not a hard or unreasonable allegation to make in this sort of case, and that TOO makes them so explosive for Adminstrations, Congressmen and their staffs, etc.

    The subject came up when VOK and I were discussing the dance that's going on with Gonzales.

    trai·tor /ˈtreɪtər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[trey-ter] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
    –noun 1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
    2. a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.
    Funny, I don't see "easy chair," "cheering," or "failed presidency" in this definition. anywhere.

    Major,

    My fatass is starving and so will be my husband's.

    I'll meet you back here later, if you're able. If not hold on to it and I'll see you the next time I see you.

    Traitor = Sandy Berger

    Cecelia: "Well, thats three women here who have lost any confidence in you whatsoever."

    What a surprise Cecelia. For two of you, I'm quite certain The loss of 'confidence' has far more to do with my questioning the ethics and morality of your continued support of a failed unnecessary war that is taking more and more promising young American lives every day we continue with this madness, than anything else.

    Also, for you, it seems to have as much to do with my continued defense of Keith Olbermann than anything else. However, the more I read the absolute DISTORTIONS that keep appearing on this site, the more prone I become to taking up a defense of him....which is something I didn't even used to do that often.

    I understand that nobody likes to have their ethics or 'humanity' questioned, even for good reason....Just ask Janet. However, ending this madness in Iraq and getting our country back in a healing mode is far more important than you, me, Sharon, or Janet.

    Also Cecelia, I really give a damn who among you has "lost confidence" in me simply for speaking what I believe. I have plenty of friends and family here at home that know who I really am, and I can assure you that not one of them would EVER characterize me as a jerk, a liar, despicable, unstable, a moron, or a hypocrite....and thats enough for me.

    "My fatass is starving and so will be my husband's."

    Enjoy. I'll reply later.

    Wow Crash, what a simplistic and ridiculous 'point' you just made there. No wonder I had trouble seeing where you were going with that.

    By the way Crash, what happened to all the name calling and the profanity this time?

    Now Crash, it is not up to the individual soldier to determine policy...never has been, never will be. They go where the are told to go and do what they are told to do, right or wrong, and thats the way it should be. What the individual soldier 'thinks' never enters into the picture. However when ENOUGH individual soldiers become disallusioned enough, overall military moral drops to the point that overall military effectiveness is reduced. This is what we allowed to happen in Vietnam. This is where we are headed in Iraq.

    "Comprehending' the mission is not part of the soldier's mission, but it very much IS the responsibility of the President, the Congress, AND the American people. When I say the mision is 'incomprehensible', that has nothing to do with what the individual soldier 'thinks'. When I say I care about the individual soldiers who are dying for an 'incomprehensible' reason, it has everything to do with wanting them to live to see a brighter future, and nothing to do with "what they think". Therfore, the contridiction you THINK you are seeing simply isn't there.

    Now Crash, have I S P E L L E D it out well enough for you yet?

    "I don't think I am a nimrod for defending any veteran of Gulf I."

    You are right about this part. I shouldn't have gotten into the name calling. What can I say? Sometimes I'm a stupid nimrod.

    What a surprise Cecelia. For two of you, I'm quite certain The loss of 'confidence' has far more to do with my questioning the ethics and morality of your continued support of a failed unnecessary war(ding!) that is taking more and more promising young American lives every day we continue with this madness, than anything else.
    Also, for you, it seems to have as much to do with my continued defense of Keith Olbermann than anything else. However, the more I read the absolute DISTORTIONS that keep appearing on this site, the more prone I become to taking up a defense of him...."which is something I didn't even used to do that often." Ding! SOUND THE ALARMS! He has went from "I don't defend Olbermahn!" to "which is something I didn't even used to do that often." When will lil mikey just admit he DEFENDS Ulbermahn? Stay tuned.
    "Comprehending' the mission is not part of the soldier's mission, but it very much IS the responsibility of the President, the Congress, AND the American people. When I say the mision is 'incomprehensible', that has nothing to do with what the individual soldier 'thinks'. When I say I care about the individual soldiers who are dying for an 'incomprehensible' reason, it has everything to do with wanting them to live to see a brighter future, and nothing to do with "what they think". Therfore, the contridiction you THINK you are seeing simply isn't there.
    Translation: He has no clue what he is talking about.

    "Translation: He has no clue what he is talking about".

    Wrong...YOU have no clue what I am talking about, but that's no surprise.

    lil mikey, at least you are finally being honest w/yourself and admiting you defend Ulbermahn. Even though you adamantly denied it in the past. I think it was slip-up on your part, but, I caught it. We're making a little progress.

    Jeff, you missed the part of my post saying I didn't USED to defend him that much, which i didn't. You people have actually driven me to do it with your ongoing distortions and dishonesty....which is difficult to overlook any longer.

    Distortions and dishonesty? You mean like Olbermann's distortions and dishonesty? Now you know how we feel about Olbermann.

    Brandon: "distortions and dishonety? Youmean like Olbermann's distortions and dishonesty?"

    Mostly about your's, which is far worse than his. At any rate, two wrongs have never made a right.

    Coming from a known-liar like you, I'll take your comment for what it's worth: utter BS, just like Olbermann's nightly BS-fests.

    Jeff, you missed the part of my post saying I didn't USED to defend him that much, which i didn't. You people have actually driven me to do it with your ongoing distortions and dishonesty....which is difficult to overlook any longer.

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 9:12 PM
    First, you deny it, then, you blame us, this is too much! You were lying all the time, but, it was well known amongs us, it's ok. we won't tell anybody. I think you are the first olbyloon to actually admit to defending Ulbermahn. Doesn't it feel better to get it out? Let it go mikey!

    Well Brandon, one thing I'm not is a liar, but you call me one anyway...so now you know why I might be inclined to defend someone else you keep calling a liar. You're absolutely wrong about me, so how can I be so sure your not wrong about him as well?

    Jeff, considering how many people you have accused of 'defending the enemy' who were clearly not 'defending the enemy', you don't have much credibility regarding your ability to judge who is defending anybody.

    Also for the record, Jeff, exposing lies and distortions being used to unfairly attack someone is not necessarily the same as 'defending' them. It's asking for simple honesty, which we will never get at this site.

    Jeff, you missed the part of my post saying I didn't USED to defend him that much, which i didn't. You people have actually driven me to do it with your ongoing distortions and dishonesty....which is difficult to overlook any longer.

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 9:12 PM
    We didn't drive you to anything, you did it from day one, you just never had the honesty to admit it.

    Jeff, you will never be one to talk about honesty. You are a proven serial liar.

    Mike writes: "Jeff, considering how many people you have accused of 'defending the enemy' who were clearly not 'defending the enemy', you don't have much credibility regarding your ability to judge who is defending anybody."

    It's hard to tell which is worse. Factor assuming John was lying about being a vet and blasting him over his feelings about the Iraq War or you saying that you assumed Brian was telling the truth about his status, and still blasting him over his feellings about the war and about the likes of KEITH OLBERMANN!

    One thing is for sure--- you're the jackass who's pompous.


    We know you're a liar Mike. You proved that when you announced you were going and never coming back. And then you came back to Olbermannwatch. And as Cecelia just said, also a pompous jackass. But then, so's Olbermann.

    Woah, that's some tortuously convoluted prose. I'm not sure I follow it... I'm not sure I want to follow it ;-)

    Just kidding. It's like a train wreck... I can't look away :-)

    Cecelia, I'm really sorry you don't have the integrity to to understand how despicable it is for anyone to call or even imply that another American a 'traitor'.

    I stand by my post. That guy is a jackass, and you are proving that you're no better.

    Cecelia, I'm really sorry you don't have the integrity to to understand how despicable it is for anyone to call or even imply that another American a 'traitor'.

    I stand by my post. That guy is a jackass, and you are proving that you're no better.

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 11:45 PM

    Well, who were you calling a traitor here, Mr. Moral Colossus?


    "Now let ME define what is traitorous: To sit back in your easy chair and cheer on the troops who are DYING day after day in an out for no discernable reason other than to try to save the legacy of a failed president. THAT is a far better definition of a 'traitor' than your's is."


    You couldn't sit back and let a vet blast Keith for five seconds and think maybe he'd earned the right to express that simple grievance, in ONE post, at least?


    Great Brandon, you say it was a 'lie' when I said I wasn't coming back to OW, even though I meant it at the time. It's obvious that you have a problem with the definition of a 'lie', but there IS an on-line dictionary available on Google if you want to find out what the word actually means..

    However, if you're going to persist in calling what I said a lie, then you're also going to have to admit this entire site that you worship so much, along with it's owner, is ALSO a liar for saying it was shutting down for good, and then came back just 1 short week later.

    Lets talk about a few of the lies that YOU made, Brandon. You lied when you claimed I was never in the military without one shread of proof. You lied again in one of your posts just a day or so ago when you claimed that Olbermann was blaming Bush for the VT shooting, even though you KNEW that was a gross distortion. In fact, Brandon, you live one big lie on this site every single day....with your constant distortions that you always endorse, when you aren't busy advancing another lie yourself.

    Could there even be a bigger hypocrite than you?

    No Cecelia, I DON'T think he's earned that right, even for "five seconds". Has it occured to you that he's not only calling Keith a 'traitor', but he is also calling every single American who doesn't think like him a traitor as well - read the post again.

    And no, he hasn't earned the 'right' to do that at all!

    Cox never said he was going to shut down for good. You however promised you were gone for good and yet, within a week, you were back. So you're on record lying. And you're lying now about Olbermann trying to pin the ability of the shooter to get his hands on guns on Bush for letting a ban expire. Turns out that those particular guns weren't even applicable under that particular law. That was a lie. A lie that Olbermann has refused to correct and you, in your typical ignorant liberal way, refuses to acknowledge. And we all know you're the biggest lying hypocrite here. You really do need better role models Mikey. Olbermann's really beginning to wear off on you.

    Cecelia,

    I posted this link on the other thread. If you get a chance, you might get a laugh if you are familiar with the "It's so easy a caveman can do it" commercials. If not, it's a good post about the weapons ban issue promoted by Olby that apparently, others zeroed in on.


    http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/223169.php

    No Cecelia, I DON'T think he's earned that right, even for "five seconds". Has it occured to you that he's not only calling Keith a 'traitor', but he is also calling every single American who doesn't think like him a traitor as well - read the post again.

    And no, he hasn't earned the 'right' to do that at all!

    Posted by: Mike at April 19, 2007 12:05 AM


    Oh, you're far too sensitive, Mike... especially considering that this is EXACTLY what you did when you told Brian what is "really" treasonous behavior.

    The same thing you've directed personally to Cee, Sharon, and Grammie, about a million times.

    Jeff, you will never be one to talk about honesty. You are a proven serial liar.

    Posted by: Mike at April 18, 2007 10:43 PM
    Spewed with no evidence. It seems you would have at least one documented for me to fall in the "serial" category. A real one, not a fabricated ine.

    Cecelia: "Oh, you're far too sensitive, Mike"

    This is a rare instance where I'll have to agree with you. I do have that weakness.

    It probably should have occured to me that others might take personal offense at a post that I had meant strictly for Brian. But it's done now.

    In addition to being a liar, Mike is also a hypocrite. He thinks he and his liberal Olbyloon "friends" are allowed to say or do anything to those they disagree with but if someone so much as ruffles one of their feathers, they declare jihad and the insults start to fly. "fair" play is not something they are familiar with so I don't even try where they are concerned. I just try to show them out for being the lunatics they are. Remember when Mike used to lecture us all in proper discussion board discourse? He's always been a pompous olbyloon. I'm telling you, watching Olbermann has worn off a bit much on Mikey.

    Cecelia, I just noticed that you mentioned Cee.

    Cee semed to be constantly implying that all who didn't support Bush's war effort 100% were un-American. While I certainly never called him a ''traitor', my intention with him was to let him know there was another side to his perceived un-Americanism by attempting to shame him a little. If I was ever successfull, he hid it well.

    I never called or implied Janet was a 'traitor' either. In fact, I never called or implied anyone was a traitor who had not done the same first themselves....and only to let them know that they didn't have a lock on the definition of Patriotism

    Cecelia: "Oh, you're far too sensitive, Mike"

    This is a rare instance where I'll have to agree with you. I do have that weakness.

    It probably should have occured to me that others might take personal offense at a post that I had meant strictly for Brian. But it's done now.


    Posted by: Mike at April 19, 2007 12:24 AM


    I'd say that it should have occurred to you six or seven months ago and so much for your vaunted experience and judgement, but you've known exactly what's you've repeatedly stated and meant every word.

    Brandon: "In addition to being a liar, Mike is also a hypocrite"

    At least I can take comfort in the fact that I can't hold a candle to you in either one of those departments.

    Mike, I think you're trying to spin some sort of PR campaign here to portray yourself as something you aren't. We know what you are because we've read your posts over a series of months and it's not even a debate point anymore: you're a liar, a hypocrite, and a pompous ass, that's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    Well Cecelia, you are correct that I've showed my anti-war passion on this board excessively on this board at times, but there is a reason for that.

    I really don't care what anyone on this board thinks of me personally. None of you know me at all. What I do care passionately about is doing whatever I can to help end this madness in Iraq.

    That is the primary reason I like Keith Olbermann. Despite all of his faults. He is the only one speaking out on this subject with the kind of passion that is sorely needed.

    If something he says results in cutting short this madness even one day, several lives will probably be saved as a result.

    I'm no trying to 'spin' anything Brandon. You've made your point that you think I'm a liar (without presenting evidence, I might add), but I really don't give a damn what a low life like you thinks about me.

    A liar and a hypocrite calling me a liar and a hypocrite means nothing to me.

    You say you're against the war and you seem to think that we here at Olbermannwatch have some control over stopping it? You think that posting here is the best place to express your opposition? ever think of lobbying your lawmakers instead? Joining a war protest? No, you come to a board about an obnoxious tv personality and try to hijack it with off-topic tirades. Then you pout petuantly when someone actually tries to discuss Olbermann on a board named Olbermannwatch! You really do take the prize for circular logic Mike. Keep on trying to potray yourself as "noble', we know better.

    A liar and a hypocrite calling me a liar and a hypocrite means nothing to me.

    Posted by: Mike at April 19, 2007 12:48 AM
    Funny you should say that.....the "serial liar" is still waiting for the accuser to cough up his evidence.

    Jeff, I've already posted lots of evidence before about this. All you do is ignor it every time...Your not worth one more second of my time.

    By the way Jeff, why have you stopped LYING about me being other posters all the time?

    In fact, I can predict exactly what your response to this post is going to be.

    Dudes! Y'all are just haters. But y'all claim for some reason nobody can fathom that KO hates our troops but it's you what are all the haters. There's nothing in here but dopey "anal-ysis" of Olbermann's show from the perspective of a dead woodchuck albeit one of them Support-Our-Troops-I-Hate-Everyone dead woodchucks.

    Y'all should've been in one of them classroms down thar in Blacksburg down on your bended knees praying for the National Guard to come and save you but nooooo(!) they couldn' come save you because they's all over in Iraq getting their balls blown off so haters like you can call everybody troop haters. If you're so patriotic why aren't you over in Iraq killing detergents? Or patrolling a few feet of our 95,000 miles of unprotected, wide-open coastline like George Bush the big Homeland Dude is doing so diligently?

    Olbermann's a man. He's right more than he's wrong. Lighten up you haters who run this unpleasant un-American site.

    The reason we got terrorism is because of haters like the dope smokers who run Olbermann Watch. Join the Army and fight for your country, haters. Everyone has had enough of this right wing hater crap. Go to Iraq and be a man.

    If you took away hate and rage from the Democrats, they'd have nothing left. Right now they can't "govern" because they're too busy criticizing Bush while trying to pretend they aren't the party in power.

    By the way Jeff, why have you stopped LYING about me being other posters all the time?

    In fact, I can predict exactly what your response to this post is going to be.

    Posted by: Mike at April 19, 2007 1:17 AM
    You don't have a clue what I'm going to say. You have never showed one piece of evidence, except when I accused you of being other posters, which you were. So, you have no evidence, so shut the hell up, got it? I just browsed back in the archives for 5 minutes and there were tons of posts of you making an ass out of yourself calling everybody names and liars and all kinds of sh-t. Just the other day you shot your mouth off saying I was the only one you called a liar, that was a lie in itself, you dumb ass. You've called Brandon a liar at least twice tonight alone. You are the pathological liar, end of story. My job here is to hammer you, have you not figured that out yet, einstein? Thanks for making my job simple.

    "If you took away hate and rage from the Democrats, they'd have nothing left. Right now they can't "govern" because they're too busy criticizing Bush while trying to pretend they aren't the party in power."

    Brandon this is why you are an endless source of amusement for me. It's not that your a Republican, my best friend is that. it's that you have this incredible gift for distorting reality.

    Let me give you the school house Rock version of How our goverment works. You must have missed it when you were a kid.

    There are three branches of goverment See
    The judicial, the legislative, and the excutive.

    Now in theory all three government branches should be roughly equal. The Republicans have complete control of one branch. (The President) A majority on another branch (the Judicial) and a minority on third (Legislative)

    That means Republicans have Absolute power on one branch the majority of power on a second and minorty on a third. Now that in istelsef defeats this silly argument of yours that Democrats are the party in power.

    But wait there is more. You see to even pass a a bill into a law congress has to get the president to sign it. AND get a load of this... he can veto it! Which means a 2/3 majority is needed to overide the bill. but alas, there are not that many Democrats in congress. So you see Brandon, the Democrats are not really pretending they are not the party in power. They're not.

    If you take away the Repubbie's last crutch, you'll see what abysmal failure Moron in Chief is and how much damage he has done to the pubbies and this country.

    "I'M A REAL RAYGUN CONSERVATIVE"

    Odd, aren't the Bush Supporters supposed to rally around Moron in Chief during this perilous times?

    booby, the 4yr old.

    "Jeff: "my job here is to hammer you"...you finally admitted your obsession with me, liar! I hope nobody is paying you in this 'job' or yours, because they sure as hell haven't gotten their money's worth.

    And, oh yea Jeff, EVERY time you accused me of being another poster, you were LYING again...got it Jeff!

    And yes Jeff, I CAN predict what your going to say, almost every time.

    SO why won't you answer my question stupid? Why have you suddenly stopped accusing me of being all these other posters.

    Nope, still no evidence of a lie, just diversion and spin.

    You are stating it fairly to what I'm saying. But not fairly as to the Libby trial per se, because in order to prove that Libby lied, Fitzpatrick had to prove he had a motive to lie-- protecting the VP."

    But that's not a hard or unreasonable allegation to make in this sort of case, and that TOO makes them so explosive for Adminstrations, Congressmen and their staffs, etc."

    Well, granted, Motive will play a part in any kind of investigation where there are inconsistent answers. Whether they be deliberate or not. and it is not a hard allegation to make that a staffer is protecting someone, but proving someone is lying and accusing them of lying are different things.

    Strictly speaking in regards to the Libby case, Fitzpatrick seemed to feel that there was enough evidence of obstruction to pursue a conviction, and he got the jury to see it his way.

    All of this I know you know. But if you are arguing the fact that a having a possible motive to lie, puts you in a bit more jepordy then I think you are arguing the judicial system is very broken. Because in theory far more than motive should have been needed to obtain a conviction. It might cast suspesion your way but it should not land you in jail.

    "Odd, aren't the Bush Supporters supposed to rally around Moron in Chief during this perilous times?"

    You know playing with my own hypocrisy for a moment, I was tempted to say "right on brother!" when I saw this. As I'm not an avid Bush fan. But it really isn't adding much to the debate and I'm betting you could get a finer debate started.

    See Jeff, I KNEW you were going to say that!

    Let me give you ONE definition of a lie Jeff...if you pull something out of your ass like you did EVERY time you falsely accused me of being another poster, without one shread of proof, you were LYING. Got it Jeff. Try that in court and you'll end up being somebody's bitch.


    And, oh yeah Jeff...WHEN exactly did you say that I said you were the only one I had called a liar"? It wasn't tonight was it Jeff? I just called your arrogant friend Brandon a liar tonight, didn't I Jeff? That means I wasn't lying when I made that statement stupid!

    Brandon IS a liar, just like you....and that makes it the truth.

    Does anyone else find the social dynamics on these blogs fascinating? It is really interesting how groups form.

    For example:

    Take a situation where John Q Democrat makes a broad generalization. Something like: "All you Wingnuts Love BUSH the Liar!" or John Q Republican makes one like: "You moonbats are all traiters like Kerry!"

    So the next Repulican comes on this site, sees the post, gets angry and makes a sweeping genrilization of his own. something like "Screw you you commie traitor" Now his post was directed at one person, The guy calling Republicans wingnuts but he has inadvertently offended every left leaning person on the board.

    So Then the next left leaning gentleman comes on the site and see's the "commie traitor" post and responds with: "How dare you make the claim that people on the left are all traitors." Now this person has in a way picked a fight with a person who was not really talking about them but venting at someone else.

    The first guy on the left comes in and defends the other guy on the left Then a another guy on the right Makes his own claim defending the other guy on the right and before you know we have two angry camps.

    I guess my point is that, all it seems to take to break down civility, is a few broad insults.

    Not that I expect civility on political blog :) What fun is that? I'm just think it is kind of fascinating that people who might otherwise get along well are at each other's throats in matter of minutes sometimes.

    Oh well, carry on...

    You're correct Craigs...sad, isn't it, and I am not blameless for this either.

    "You're correct Craigs...sad, isn't it, and I am not blameless for this either."

    Yeah, neither am I. I think it must be inevitible, like we are watching some basic tribalism, or group think in action.

    Anyway I'm not really trying to play peacemaker or anything, I doubt that is possible... it's just something I found interesting.

    Craigs: I think the problem boils down to too much attention being paid to WHO made the post, and not enough attention to the content of the post. I think peacemaking is probably impossible when it gets to this point.

    After a while, everyone is inevitably carrying way too much baggage, and there are always those who will try to use everything you ever posted against you if they can.

    I don't think there is a solution as long as it's allowed to be a free for all like it is.

    Yes, we know how you liberals like to stifle "free speech". You believe that YOU should have free speech to say anything YOU want to say but free speech for those you disagree with? Not so much. Mike: King of the Hypocrites!

    The lack of civility is marked. Not just on blogs, but throughout our society.

    There are a few people who are simply rude and abusive. Scanning through this overnighter, King and Brandon are the most obvious examples. While we can just marginalize them, they do tend to set and "either-or" tone. While I don't buy the view that most Americans are necessarily in the middle, I do think there is a broad intersection of common ideas. At the moment, that intersection is ever so slightly to the left. That is natural. We have an Administration which is self-proclaimed conservative. Its arrogance and incompetence have driven some people away from the policy positions it advances. The converse happens from time-to-time.

    So, my point is: Don't let the Bradon's and King's set the tone. They will always be disagreeable and extreme. Relegate them to the place they deserve. They are unimportant, and we ought to keep them that way.

    Yeah and you're so unimpotant that you don't even have a user name! I'm sorry, I find it very difficult to take those who seek to hide behind anonymous monikers seriously.

    philby, if you want to see "lack of civility" go to the puffington post, they are uncaged animals, to say the least. But, you know this already because I know you post there, you are not hard to id. lil mikey is going to be upset because you don't agree with his theory "most Americans are in the middle' you are one of his idols. The intersection of ideas is not too the left. Just because the dems took back both houses doesn't proove your theory, either. The dems that won in most areas were centrists, not the far leftists liberals. The far leftists won't admit this fact, though. They believe if there is a (D) after their name, they must be a liberal. Have fun at the zoo (puffington post) by by now.

    And, oh yeah Jeff...WHEN exactly did you say that I said you were the only one I had called a liar"? It wasn't tonight was it Jeff? I just called your arrogant friend Brandon a liar tonight, didn't I Jeff? That means I wasn't lying when I made that statement stupid!

    Brandon IS a liar, just like you....and that makes it the truth.

    Posted by: Mike at April 19, 2007 2:24 AM
    The evidence PROVING you to be a liar is on the 18th thread. Read and weep.

    Hell, Jeff...I've been "PROVING" you were a liar at least 100 times....but you have to go back digging some 2 1/2 months through the archives to find one marginal and arguable example from me. How long did that take you?

    Imagine what I could post if I were to go back and find all the incredibly stupid posts AND lies that you have told? I could post 100's of examples, but you are simply not worth the time and effort, and I don't think everyone else would want to waste their time reading what they already know about you.

    By the way Jeff, you admitted you really ARE the troll I've been calling you when you slipped and said "my job here is to hammer you".

    Let me refer you to the 9:13 anon post above, and no, I didn't write it. It is 100% spot on and further identifies you as nothing but a troll....a heckler, in other words....who's only role here is to try to screw up the threads of someone who's ideas they dislike....and pull their chain. No wonder you worship a devisive low life like Michael Savage.

    As for me, I'm going to try to follow the advise of that anon, because you are simply not worth putting forth the effort of communicating with.

    Marginal and arguable? Wow, I don't think anyone but you would see it that way. It looks to me like an outright, undeniable lie. Still, you being the self-righteous prick you are, won't admit it. I am not surprised one bit. Keep calling me a troll, fine with me. Anyone that disagrees AND proves you to be a liar and a hypocrite is a troll in your feeble mind. No surprise, either. Keep livin' up to your "King O' the Loons" status. I'm sure you will wear it with pride. We'll make your roomy, booby, the Quenn O' the Loons. Kissin cousins.

    Hell, Jeff...I've been "PROVING" you were a liar at least 100 times....but you have to go back digging some 2 1/2 months through the archives to find one marginal and arguable example from me. How long did that take you?

    "Imagine what I could post if I were to go back and find all the incredibly stupid posts AND lies that you have told? I could post 100's of examples, but you are simply not worth the time and effort, and I don't think everyone else would want to waste their time reading what they already know about you."
    You haven't given one shred of evidence because you can't. I found that post proving you to be a liar in the FIRST archive I looked in, all of 2 minutes it took me! I was shocked, myself, it only took that long.

    Jeff, look up 'lie' in the dictionary. You will find it doesn't include anything I've done.

    The fact that I didn't remember a word I used 2 1/2 DAMN MONTHS AGO to ACCURATELY describe a real lie that another bombastic poster a lot like yourself said about me doesn't make me a 'liar', although I apparently did inadvertantly post that I had not said something I had actually said in the distant past. You show me someone who has never done that...and I'll show you Jesus himself.

    And, yes Jeff, that DOES make a post you had to go back 2 1/2 MONTHS ago very much "questionable and arguable".

    You ARE a troll because thats all you do here, and you even ADMITTED it when you made that despicable statement that you were here "to hammer me". You don't debate....you heckle! You do your best to instigate and annoy...and that's the ONLY thing you are actually good at.

    Also, I've just done something you NEVER do....that is to confront an accusation or a counterpoint head on.

    Goddbye troll!

    "As for me, I'm going to try to follow the advise of that anon, because you are simply not worth putting forth the effort of communicating with. "

    I think that is a good idea. How do you have a conversation about politics with someone whose knowledge of goverment would improve considerably by watching a school house rock?

    People like Brandon are clowns, they are here for amusement.

    Brandon, keep on keeping on. I for one find you highly entertaining.

    Not half as amusing as I find you and your band of Olbyloons.

    lil mikey, I don't "heckle" I "hammer" get it right. lil mikey playing the "inadvertantly" card to defend his outright lie, unbelievable. I have told you at least 3 times to think before you post, you just can't seem to comprehend that logic. The foam starts pouring from your mouth and you start banging on your keyboard before you think, a big mistake.

    "Not half as amusing as I find you and your band of Olbyloons."

    I'm just a bill.
    Yes, I'm only a bill.
    And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill.
    Well, it's a long, long journey
    To the capital city.
    It's a long, long wait
    While I'm sitting in committee,
    But I know I'll be a law someday
    At least I hope and pray that I will,
    But today I am still just a bill.

    Little school house rock for you brandon.

    No Jeff.......You HECKLE....got it troll?

    And you are absolutely the LAST one on this board to tell anyone to "think before you post"

    But then again, maybe you ARE thinking, and that's just the best you can do?

    Goddbye again....troll.

    Schoolhouse Rock? Proof positive the Olbyloons have never managed to advance mentally beyond elementary school.

    "Schoolhouse Rock? Proof positive the Olbyloons have never managed to advance mentally beyond elementary school."

    Brandon! You will never learn anything about goverment if you keep this close minded additude. I'm just trying to get you up to speed with the average first grader. Now Buckle down!
    Boy: Listen to those congressmen arguing! Is all that discussion and debate about you?

    Bill: Yeah, I'm one of the lucky ones. Most bills never even get this far. I hope they decide to report on me favourably, otherwise I may die.

    Boy: Die?

    Bill: Yeah, die in committee. Oooh, but it looks like I'm gonna live! Now I go to the House of Representatives, and they vote on me.

    Boy: If they vote yes, what happens?

    Bill: Then I go to the Senate and the whole thing starts all over again.

    Boy: Oh no!

    Bill: Oh yes!

    I'm just a bill
    Yes, I'm only a bill
    And if they vote for me on Capitol Hill
    Well, then I'm off to the White House
    Where I'll wait in a line
    With a lot of other bills
    For the president to sign
    And if he signs me, then I'll be a law.
    How I hope and pray that he will,
    But today I am still just a bill.


    I don't normally cruise forums like this (I found a link to it National Review's website) and I hate trolls but many of the responses to my comment deserve to be commented on. When I first posted I didn't realise I could curse on these posts. Cuss like a Sailor? You're damn right! Sorry if I sound a little arrogant when I write but we tend to be that way around civilians who don't have a clue about this war or the military in general.

    First, thanks to those who defended me. Yes, I absolutely did serve in Iraq. I am a Petty Officer First Class in the US Navy. I was what is known as an individual augmentee, an IA. The reason the Navy is sending IAs over there is because the Army can't recruit enough people to fill their ranks. Why? Because the people don't support the war. I was part of a Counter IED Task Force with the mission of suppressing the IED threat. Most of what I did is classified so the most I can say is we were very successful. Yes, people still die because of IEDs but the death rate is down. So tell me guys, what have YOU done to save the lives of Soldiers? You see where the arrogance comes from? An Army officer I met over there has a saying; America's not at war, America is at the mall. The Army is at war. I was with an Army Scout unit in Ramadi (if you don't know where Ramadi is, if it takes you more than 20 seconds to find it on a map of Iraq, raise your hand. Now, you guys can keep your mouths shut for the rest of the war. The same goes for those of you who can't explain the difference between Shia and Sunni.)

    "No John is a liar because he uses the same left wing talking points that Olbermann uses and no one in the military would ever watch Olbermann. You are a fool for believing some left wing coward was in the military. Keep praying for diplomacy with terrorists and I will watch you go over the cliff with the rest of the cowards."


    Posted by: The Factor at April 18, 2007 6:07 PM

    f--- you Factor. I use the talking points because THEY ARE TRUE. Don't try to Swiftboat me you jackass. How many combat missions does your pussy ass have? I have 47. Again, f--- you Factor. I've pulled the bodies of better men than you out of blown-apart HUMVEES. I've *shot* better men than you! At least they were willing to lay their lives on the line for what they believe in and I can respect that. You f---ers who cheerlead this war but wouldn't be caught dead in uniform (Get it? Caught dead? Hilarious isn't it?) can kiss my Navy ass. I'll expect an apology, you pussy! YOU DON'T GET TO QUESTION MY BRAVERY, CIVILIAN! But put your f---ing pom-poms down before you do apologise. I can guarantee that if we were face to face you wouldn't dare question my bravery. I'd break your pussy ass in half. If any of you think for a moment that the military is a bunch of right wing robots that live to watch Oreilly and Fox, then you don't have a clue. We would watch Countdown *everyday* at 0400 on AFN (Armed Forces Network) and The Daily Show and The Colbert Report at noon. We had a few people who were fans of ORielly but most of us couldn't stand him. Why? Because the rosy picture Fox would paint about how wonderful the war was going didn't match what we saw when we went outside the wire. They weren't realistic. Even the conservatives among our troop enjoyed Countdown, Daily, and Colbert. Yes, there are a lot of liberals in the military. AFN has a news channel that cycles through CNN, MSNBC, FOX, etc. and when Fox comes on, the channel would normally get changed. Even the conservatives couldn't stomach it. At least, the conservatives who had been outside the wire. The clueless FOBbits (our term of derision for the troops who never left the base) still enjoyed FOX. Oh and by the way, have you ever seen FOX News outside the US? They lose a whole lot of their patriotism and don't wave the flag in their graphics. Sounds like a bunch of commercial sunshine patriots to me.

    "Gosh the veterans are just flittering in and out today. I can hardly get my hand back down from saluting one before that one is gone and another one walks in!

    Posted by: VOK at April 18, 2007 6:13 PM"

    f--- you too, VOK. Keep your pussy-assed civilian hand in your goddammed pocket and slink away with your tail between your legs like a good little civilian. Why don't you just go to the f---ing mall? I'm sure we couldn't count on finding you in an Army recruiter's office signing up to fight in this war you're so fond of? Didn't think so. The Army is now taking 42 year olds so age isn't an excuse. Don't have a high school diploma? The Army now waives it. Got a crimminal record? The Army will waive that too. Why? Because nobody want's to fight in a war that is destined for failure. And if you're older than 42, have you talked any younger Americans into joining the Army to fight this war you so believe in? Would you send you're kids? Didn't think so. a--hole.

    "Comprehending' the mission is not part of the soldier's mission, but it..."

    Royalking, you're wrong about that. A Soldier does need to comprehend a mission. In fact, the justifications and spin for this war have been so screwed up and convoluted that our First Sergeant had to have a Troop meeting with the Soldiers to *explain* the mission to them. If a Soldier sees his comrades dying and they don't understand the reason, how long do you think morale will stay high? Not very long.

    I can make the following statements because I've EARNED the right to do so.
    -If you support this war and aren't willing to join the military to help with the fight, you're a hypocritical pussy.
    -If you support this war but wouldn't want your kids to join the military, you're a hypocritical pussy.
    -If you support this war and you call people who criticise the war traitors, then you're a sunshine patriot hiding behind the flag.
    -If you support this war but haven't educated yourself about the country and the real picture on the ground then you're an ignorant sunshine patriot.
    -If you criticize the people who show the ugly side of war (for example, CNN's coverage of the hospital in Baghdad that was graphic) then you're a sunshine patriot trying to hide the truth from the rest of the people. We saw that CNN report over there and it brought tears to our eyes and we applauded them for showing the Americans At The Mall what they're really cheerleading for.

    In closing, I don't have time to sift through all of these posts to see what someone might have said in response to me. I'll check for the next day or so but after that I probably won't be back. I don't have time for this. I have though set up an email address for this topic that anyone can e-mail me at if you want to ask me anything or, maybe, apologise (yeah, that means you VOK and Factor) but you'd be more of a man if you did so publicly. The address is johnolbyfan@gmail.com.

    John
    The Angry Vet

    "Comprehending' the mission is not part of the soldier's mission, but it..."

    Royalking, you're wrong about that. A Soldier does need to comprehend a mission. In fact, the justifications and spin for this war have been so screwed up and convoluted that our First Sergeant had to have a Troop meeting with the Soldiers to *explain* the mission to them. If a Soldier sees his comrades dying and they don't understand the reason, how long do you think morale will stay high? Not very long.

    John, those words you quoted me as saying were not said by me, I was reposting what lil mikey (a supposed vet) said, jump on his ass, not mine, got it?

    Hold on royalking, I wasn't jumping on your ass, that was reserved for Factor and VOK. Sorry I missread your post but don't for a moment think you can tell me "got it." Got it?
    John

    Hold on royalking, I wasn't jumping on your ass, that was reserved for Factor and VOK. Sorry I missread your post but don't for a moment think you can tell me "got it." Got it?
    John

    Too bad you're beloved Democrats don't realized how to pass legislation. Have they actually DONE anything since they came to power Craig? Of course not. It's much easier to bitch about someone than it is to actually govern isn't it?

    John: I was the one who originally posted that quote. 'Royalking' is nothing but an internet heckler who's entire mission on this site is to attampt to find fault with every post I make...by his own admission.

    If you will review most of my posts, you will find that I agree with almost everything you have passionately stated, and have made many similar statements myself...and I was also one of your 'defenders' when you made your original post. I respect you and your opinion 100%. And Yes, I don't just 'claim' to be a veteran, I AM a veteran.

    That one point of contention between you and I the one you referenced can be debated, And I definitely see and respect your point....but keep in mind it was one made in response to one of the very kind of people you disdain, who was making simplistic, all encompassing arguments claiming to know "what the troops think" (Crash).

    I was a veteran of a different time (Vietnam), and I have personally seen what moral loss can do to our military...and that is much of what I have been worried about regarding this conflict from the very beginning.

    You sir, deserve to be saluted!

    Thanks Mike, you're very kind. I need to stay away from these conservative forums (and the liberal ones too for that matter. I despise politicians on both sides of the aisle for this war. The ones who were too scared to stand up to the president and the ones who were too willing to go along). And hey brother, thanks for your service too. I don't envy what you guys had to go through in Vietnam.

    John

    "Too bad you're beloved Democrats don't realized how to pass legislation. Have they actually DONE anything since they came to power Craig? Of course not. It's much easier to bitch about someone than it is to actually govern isn't it? "

    Harder to do something when you only have a slim majority in one branch of goverment. hey that was a psuedo arguement on your part! The school house rock's are paying off!

    John the Angry Vet pops in occasionally. The themes:
    1) abusive
    2) if not serving but saying anything positive about the war, then scumbag (one time he said lower than UBL
    3) gives latest enlistment qualifications
    4) respects enemy for willingness to fight, better than those not serving
    5) obscenities throughout
    6) threats of physical violence
    7) military terms, scenarios thrown in
    8) military hates Fox News (one time it was forced to watch Fox News, no choice)

    He served and now his son is serving and he is angry about the war. He blows off steam here. All who served their country deserve to be saluted, even angry ones, even ones who served without experiencing combat, right Mike?


    Cowboy, you have no clue what you're talking about. This is the first day I have ever visited or posted to this site. Why do feel the need to lie about me?

    John

    Also, my son is four years old. Even as bad off as the Army is right now, I don't think they're taking Pre-K children.

    John

    You have such anger (just like the other giuy who posts)-

    probably just coincidence that someone else has the same worldview

    still respect ya- gotta go

    John, your new ass kissin' buddy, Mike, was the one who said what I reposted, now it doesn't bother you because HE said it? Change of heart all of the sudden? Not going to ask him what he meant or explain his post that caused you to condemn me?

    How f---ing stupid are you royal?

    Hold on royalking, I wasn't jumping on your ass, that was reserved for Factor and VOK. Sorry I missread your post but don't for a moment think you can tell me "got it." Got it?
    John

    Posted by: John at April 19, 2007 4:24 PM
    Hold on royalking, I wasn't jumping on your ass, that was reserved for Factor and VOK. Sorry I missread your post but don't for a moment think you can tell me "got it." Got it?
    John

    Posted by: John at April 19, 2007 4:25 PM

    I even apologized for misquoting you. Are you dumb or just trying to be beligerent?

    john, you're not going to ask lil mikey why he thinks soldiers don't need to "comprehend" a mission? Another bitter olbyloon, foul language and hate, real classy. I'm curious how lil mikey will spin his comments.

    John to RoyalKing (Jeff): "Are you dumb or just trying to be beligerent".

    He's BOTH! A bad combination.

    Tell you what, I'll ask him as soon as you answer my question, are you dumb or beligerent and I'll also throw in the question why aren't you serving? So far, nobody has rogered up with an answer. Nice.

    John

    John according to your rules, 99.9% of Congress shouldn't be allowed to discuss the war either. Really, I think you need to address your anger control issues. And while you're at it, you might want to work on your ability to use linear logic. While I thank you for your service to this country, you're not really making much sense with your rhetoric on this board.

    John,

    I've taken your reasoning and expanded on it and I think it's going to help you ask your question to a broader range of people, and hopefully increase troop recruitment AND active and morally compelling political dissent from the war, among those you persuade.

    I've articulated this position or really a further application of your own position, in the Random Thoughts thread.

    John to RoyalKing (Jeff): "Are you dumb or just trying to be beligerent".

    He's BOTH! A bad combination.

    Posted by: Mike at April 19, 2007 7:34 PM
    lil mikey/mike the hyopocrite, why don't you explain your spew to John, why you think the troops don't need to "comprehend" their mission? John, it is clear to all you think anyone that didn't serve is no good in your book, you throw that question around like a football, we get it. My grandfather served in both world wars and my father carried top secret documents for the cia, I chose not to go in the military. Instead, I went to college and studied law. Now, ask lil mikey that question, I'm dying to hear his line of BS.

    RoyalKing (Jeff): "Im dying to hear his line of BS."

    I guess you'll just have to 'die' then.

    VOK, you said:

    "Hundreds and probably thousands of Iraqi students have died in equally random violence in the vortex of Iraq,...... How many students died in Iraq today? The proper comparison is American students to Iraqi students.
    Posted by: VOK at April 18, 2007 1:16 PM"

    Your basis for making comparisons seems to be very resticted, and in such a way to support your view while castigating those with different views.

    One day in Iraq compared to one precedent setting day in America.

    Want to compare days in Iraq where a psychopathic untouchable national leader picked young innocent school girls to torture, rape and kill to the same days in America.

    Want to compare days in Iraq when their own government kidnapped, tortured and mass murdered groups of men, women, children and school kids to any day in America.

    Want to compare the same days in Iraq when the untouchable national leader tortured Olympic athletes for not winning to the comparable days in America.

    You really made a stretch there.

    Grammie

    I guess you'll just have to 'die' then.

    Posted by: Mike at April 19, 2007 8:38 PM Shocker, the little coward running from another one of his posts. Whats that, the 150th spew you can't back up or justify?

    Loon, first I am glad to see you back. You have been imitated with disastrous results. You said:

    "7. Use foreign phrases: French is good, but Latin is the lingua franca of flaming. You should use the words “ad hominem” at least three times per article. Other favorite Latin phrases are “ad nauseum,” “veni, vidi, vici,” and “fettuccini alfredo.”"

    I take your point to heart. I will never use 'Tu Quoque' again.

    As an explanation, I only used it in place of 'red herring' because I didn't want to give the loons an opportunity to call me a Commie hating red scare fanatic. :)

    Grammie

    John and Mike. You are both pussies, and about as sharp as a bag of wet cat hair to boot.

    John. Its called a volunteer army, dumbass. This isn't Israel. Maybe we should be more like Israel, but that's not the point. The point should be....If you support the war, and we then have to institute a draft, you'd better sign up, otherwise you're a pussy.

    I can actually visualize you getting pissed right now, John. You, just like Mikey, are a hater and a bonafide loser who needs to condemn others for your own failures. I guarantee I have earned the right to call you a loser.

    Crash sure sounds like a classic 'hater' to me! When ya signing up Crash?

    lil mikey, one of the biggest haters here, besides burger king and O'liar is your roomy, bob. Next is you. I don't think you have much room to be calling anybody else a "hater."

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