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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    May 11, 2007
    Glenn Beck Unloads on Keith Olbermann over Fort Dix Six Snark

    On CNN Headline News, Glenn Beck excoriated Keith Olbermann for his cavalier dismissal of the arrest of the Fort Dix Six. As you listen you might hear echoes of the commentary that accompanied our original video post. You will also notice that Beck uses our video clip, posted on May 9th which got huge exposure thanks to our friends at HotAir.com

    [note to Glenn's producers, contact me next time and I will be happy to provide a high-res version of the clip]

    BECK: But first, the "Real Story." If you didn't know any better, you might be like me. I mean, I could be naive enough to believe that terrorism would be a bipartisan issue, right? Terrorists attack us? That's bad. We stop a terrorist attack? That's good. That's not politics. That's common sense. No.

    And then you remember, "Oh, wait I'm in America in 2007," not in this country anymore, not with this media anymore. The real story is that you can now find somebody who is willing to go on television and disparage anything or anybody. You show me the story; I'll show you the critic.

    On Tuesday, the day the FBI busted up a terror group in New Jersey that was in final preparations for a deadly attack on our soldiers at Fort Dix, New Jersey, MSNBC journalist Keith Olbermann went on air with this, and I want you to pay very close attention to his choice of words.

    (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

    KEITH OLBERMANN, MSNBC ANCHOR: The ultimate premise of the war in Iraq and the ultimate premise, certainly, of the Republican campaign ahead, counterterrorism. The FBI claims it has broken up a plot to attack Fort Dix, in New Jersey.

    The flaw, though, in the breathless reporting of the purported terror cell, the bureau infiltrated the six-person group after its members took video of themselves practicing with assault weapons, brought the tape to a photo store, and had it transferred to a DVD. The details of the supposed plot don't seem to hold together that well, either, though that did not stop extensive and entirely credulous coverage on TV, the Internet and print today.

    The men supposedly had plans to gain access to the base disguised at pizza delivery guys, then cut the power somewhat, then, quote, "hit four, five, or six Humvees and light the whole place and retreat without any losses." And take the tape of yourselves practicing and have it copied at Photo Mat. In other words, the FBI has arrested six morons.

    (END VIDEO CLIP)

    BECK: Wow, first it's all about the presidential campaign, and then it's six morons, huh, Keith? Is that really what we've come to? We can't even take one night to applaud law enforcement or the FBI for protecting us and our soldiers that are here and they're saving lives without launching into insults and politics?

    You know, Keith, I've got an idea. How about I keep this video clip on file until the next time that we're attacked? And then you'll start blasting people for not being able to prevent the attack. And then I'll just play the clip and show what a hypocrite you really are.

    Let's assume that you're right and these guys were idiots. I'll give you, they weren't too bright. Are you saying that only brilliant people can cause death and destruction? Wow. I'll bet the people in Oklahoma City or Littleton, Colorado, hey, how about Blacksburg, Virginia? I bet they'd have something to say about that, huh, Keith?

    I have to tell you, I know Keith Olbermann likes to say, "Oh, I'm not a liberal or a Democrat." Sure. You know, I know his audience undoubtedly is, so let me ask them directly. Is this really who you are? Is this honestly what your great party, a party that once stood for hard work and values and compassion, has become? The party of my grandparents, this is it?

    Keith, you know what? Maybe you're right. Maybe you're really not a Democrat, because I don't believe it. I don't believe that represents anything that like what Democrats really are. And, in fact, I know for a fact this isn't what any American, no matter what their politics, stands for.

    This story is not about politics. It's about how powerful the public is when it comes to protecting this country. There are millions more of us than there are of all the FBI, CIA, DHS and ATF agents combined. We, we the people, are the best and sometimes only defense against terrorism. Remember, if it wasn't for one alert Circuit City employee, we might be talking about a completely different situation right now.

    But the "Real Story" is, is that there are people and groups within this country working hard day and night to make sure that that public keeps their mouths shut all the time. Although their arguments are usually disguised under a very thin veil of racism and civil rights, the reality is that groups use these tactics to put us all on the defensive. Nobody wants to be called a racist or accused of discrimination, so we're scared into silence.

    Now, before the e-mails start rolling in and I'm taken out of context, I'm not talking about real racism and real discrimination. Those absolutely do exist, and we already have laws in place to deal with those dirt bag offenders. What I'm talking about are the situations like the imams on the plane, who started acting suspiciously, like the 9/11 hijackers, situations where reasonable people make reasonable judgments based on what they're seeing.

    But what message does it send when those people are sued as a result of those reasonable judgments? What if this hero from Circuit City had been wrong, these guys were turned in, and they were just messing around? Do you really think the ACLU and groups like that would not be out holding press conferences right now, claiming discrimination and threatening lawsuits, and somebody like Keith Olbermann would be on the air saying, "Look at these morons"?

    Yes, you know what? If you really don't think that that would be happening, I bet Keith Olbermann would have a technical term for you, as well: moron.

    We can't have it both ways. When it comes to public safety, we either put reasonable vigilance first or we want to cater to every person who plays the discrimination card to further their agenda. Considering that one of those options probably just saved an untold number of lives, I think the choice is pretty clear.

    Don Clark, former FBI special agent in charge of Houston, and Congressman Peter King, he's a Republican from New York, the ranking member of the House Homeland Security Committee, Don, let me just start with you. First of all, these guys, morons?

    DON CLARK, FORMER HEAD OF FBI HOUSTON BUREAU: Absolutely not. Glenn, whether they were morons or not is immaterial. I mean, these people were trying to conduct a terrorist attack.

    And first of all, Glenn, I've got to say, kudos to that gentleman at the Circuit City. That's what American citizens have to do to keep us from being attacked by terrorists. And, also, I personally formed that terrorist task force up in New Jersey some years ago, and I think they did a heck of a job for trying to work this out.

    It's about vigilance. The two most used words today, vigilance and prevention, and we need to stick to that and do the right things, by the laws as we have them, and keep people alive in this country.

    BECK: Hey, Peter, how come this story has not become -- one of these guys just converted over to Islam. Who has he been talking to? How did he become radicalized so fast? Where are the MSNBC investigative reports going out and talking to the people that, you know, helped him become a Muslim? How come we're not seeing the footage? How come the story is not about how three of them came across our southern border in the middle of the night? Why?

    REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: Because there's a terrible double standard. I mean, you saw it there with Keith Olbermann. There's a crowd in America which is always "blame America first."

    When the FBI does something right -- and, by the way, this is a great victory for the FBI. I mean, not only do they stop the plot, but they were able to monitor it for 15 months. You know, that's not easy to do, is to stand back and resist that impulse to make the arrest. They let this play out. They did a thoroughly professional job.

    The citizen from Circuit City should be given the Medal of Honor. I mean, this is what we ask all Americans to do. These people should be the heroes. These people should be being lauded and praised. Instead, there's this attempt to somehow diminish it or demean it and it's really, again, just a "blame America first" crowd, diminish what we do, praise what the enemy does, take whatever weaknesses or deficiencies we have, highlight them, focus on them. It's terrible.

    BECK: Peter, do you have any doubt at all that, if this wouldn't have been that, and it came out that the ACLU or an organization like CAIR wouldn't be holding a press conference today ripping that guy at Circuit City to shreds?

    KING: No, in fact, he would probably be risking a lawsuit. Or put it the other way. Let's just say these were some NRA gun owners who were plotting to attack innocent civilians and it was stopped. It would be front pages everywhere, and they'd be looking into the whole psyche of gun owners.

    No, but you're right. If this had not worked out, if this information had turned out not to be totally accurate or if it turned out these guys were just playing in the woods, you would have had lawsuits. You would have had CAIR getting involved. It would have been absolutely terrible.

    BECK: Don, I want to ask you what we should be looking for. I think this neighborhood in Cherry Hill was amazing. I read some place that one neighbor actually was walking down the street and saw a sedan parked down the street, where it was the FBI -- they were monitoring the House -- saw the sedan parked in front of the street, called the police, and said, "Hey, there is somebody hanging out, and they are here all the time back and forth. And something is going on in the neighborhood," and the police just said, "Zip it. Everything's OK."

    I mean, this is a neighborhood that is on watch, a real neighborhood watch. What is it that we should be looking for, as regular people?

    CLARK: Well, you know, Glenn, I think that neighborhood really set the example as to the things that we should be doing. And in order to tell somebody what they should be looking for, you know, the American citizens are pretty smart people. And they have a pretty good idea when something is not going right in their surroundings, in their area.

    They can tell when something is added, a car is there, it shouldn't be there. They can tell when these types of things are happening. And I say don't be reserved about it. If you've got your facts, if you're looking at it intelligently, if you know that it's something different that's going on, call the authorities.

    And now, with homeland security and so forth, it may be confusing a little bit, but I say call the FBI right away and give them particulars to the information, and I guarantee you that they're going to take a look at it.

    BECK: Peter, I've only got about 30 seconds. Is your whistleblower legislation going to go through to protect people who are whistleblowers?

    KING: Glenn, where it is, is there's a conference now between the House and Senate on the homeland security bill. The house bill has it; the Senate bill doesn't. We have to focus attention on the Senate to make sure they include it. Otherwise, citizens who come forward will be subject to lawsuits. We cannot allow that.

    You can have the best FBI in the world, the best police department in the world, but they can't exist and can't function without the eyes and ears of millions of good public-spirited American.

    BECK: That's the "Real Story" tonight. We'll be back in just a minute.

    (COMMERCIAL BREAK)


    Posted by Robert Cox | Permalink | Comments (104) | | View blog reactions

    104 Comments

    Prediction: No reply from Olby will be forthcoming on this one.

    Where is VOK to lecture us about how the substance of Olbermann's arguments are never addressed on this site? Is this good enough for you?

    This is why I love Beck, he tells it like it REALLY is, as does Savage. No bs, just facts.

    Hoping Levin takes Olbermann to the woodshed over his "moron" comments.

    As a Democrat I agree with Beck. My party the party of Freedom and justice is being hijacked by a Leftist-Islamic alliance.
    The Left down plays any Ilsmaic threat.
    Ulbermahn is on the take.
    He's Pro-Jihad and anti-American.
    He sickens me!

    I saw this segment last night. It was great. O'Reilly slapped Olbermann around as well but not as good a Beck did. I can't wait till Beck passes Olbermann in ratings. He has pulled Headline News out of the crapper even though they would not let him talk about the Mickey Mouse Hammas story. Beck has said that he would have more freedom at Fox News but he wants to reach and audience that disagrees with him.

    Beck is obviously correct. Keith Olbermann coulld have been anywhere from not putting the incident in perspective all the way to schilling for his anti-war buddies.

    However, I do not know if I can trust Glenn Beck ever again ever since he put that weak documentary up on CNN Headline. That documentary was sloppy, not focused, and featured some lame evidence. If he wants to go after anybody, I suggest he should go after himself for putting up such a weak explanation for how Gore was wrong.

    I have to agree with you OWUBFT. Beck didn't go after Gore and his Inconvenient lie hard enough. He should have let the scientist speak longer. He seemed to jumble too much together instead of sticking to a few points. It seemed rushed together. I am guessing that CNN/Headline put pressure on him to be kind to the global warming alarmist. People who are pushing socialist/population control ideology of global warming deserve no mercy.

    Bicker, would you clarify that for me? Is Beck correct or is he the messenger from hell because you didn't like one of his specials that focused on disputing your deeply held conviction.

    Beck is correct and I don't know if I can trust him ever again all in two sentences of a short post. Does this mean that you can't accept the evidence of your own eyes and ears because Beck also reached the same or similar conclusion.

    Grammie

    Olbermann has been taken to the woodshed and his pants pulled down and whupped 90 times upon is ass.....Well done Mr Beck Im sorry I didint see this live. 100000 PERCENT CORRECT, IF THE ATTACK HAD INDEED TAKEN PLACE OLBERMANN WOULD HAVE LEAD WITH IT AND HAMMERED WITH IT

    Olbermann makes me ill

    Grammie: Glenn Beck has been off of my personal list of "worthy" since I caught him dropping subconscious "trial balloons" before the Iraq War started. That is the ground that I start on with Beck now-a-days, and more recently, all of the sudden he gets a CNN Headline news program and tries his best to sound like some sort of general and that to me is another point that I hate, when whoever talks about things like war way too openly and in a much to proagandaisti speach. That being said, I still try to like the guy, and I still tune in to his program from time to time and I am sure he is r correct about Keith Olbermann.

    This is how far journalistic standards have fallen in this country.

    A conservative talk show host has to point out the bias and partisanship of a news anchor doing a news show.

    Not fellow journalists. Not media critics. Not the folks at Editor and Publisher. Not Howard Kurtz.

    A damned conservative talk show host.

    The Factor still keeps desperately trying to convince somebody, anybody, that all this global warming business is just hooey !
    Maybe you should work on something more believable , Factor-less, like the Iraq war being a huge success.

    It's amazing the lack of knowledge and education that dimwits like Factor and others possess.

    Keify accepts an award in a long rambling fashion, "they have attacked me personally...but they can not dispute my facts..." Oh Brother, ham bone anyone?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6y4mAYQInE

    Hahahaha! Olbermann says "I'm still waiting for someone to come back with a rebuttal to the facts..."

    No, Keith, they can't invite themselves on your show in order to rebut you! YOU have to let them come on!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6y4mAYQInE

    Thanks, chicken blogger for posting this! It's a treasure trove!

    Olbermann says that many of his colleagues tell him that they wish they could say what he says. Then he tells them to try and do it if only once a year!

    THAT is exactly how Olbermann survives doing what he's doing as a news man, in a way that a conservative would NEVER survive. He's only saying what journalists, who are by in large a liberal group, wish they could say.

    Oh, you've really been up against it, Keith...

    Give him a Profile In Courage Award as he picks up other awards and all the fawning attention from colleagues who think just as he thinks.

    "I'm still waiting for someone to come back with a rebuttal to the facts..."

    Um, Mr. Olbermann, they're waiting just outside the news studio pounding on the door but you won't let them in.

    And please, KO, tell us again how Bush has taken away all Americans' habeas rights?

    I love that fable. I get some hot chocolate when you tell it. Makes me sleepy.

    Now this is how you go after Keith. Use his own words against him. I hope Mark Levin is taking notes.

    I saw clips of Keith accepting the award.
    We're getting to him!
    He admitted he's under daily attack!|
    That's why his hair is turning white.
    Let's keep getting this guy.

    He still hasn't read the charges yet. None of the evidence, which is just enough to get through the arraignment, says that they were going to pretend to be pizza delivery guys.

    One of the accused made a map of Fort Dix as he delivered pizzas, for his father I think, to Fort Dix. There is a procedure to go through to be admitted and be renewed monthly and he complied. After all, he was an American.

    This was a long term deal and once inside he had pretty much free rein to scout around. If a pizza delivery man could make a map when delivering pizzas why couldn't he, after all he was a familiar figure to the guards and others, conceivably smuggle in his comrades and their weapons the same way.

    I'm not saying that this what they planned because the charge doesn't go into details of that. But it is conceivable that they could do it.

    This fool is all connotation and emotion with a gargantuan case of self adulation.

    No one has disputed his facts. That might be the ultimate chutzpah. He won't allow anyone on his show who disputes him in any way, he won't be interviewed by anyone who isn't a sycophantic acolyte or feeds at the same trough.

    When I first listened to his spiel and then read the transcript I actually got queasy. There are some things that we should all approach in as factual a way as possible while giving the benefit of any doubt to our security as a nation. If you have any suspicions about it at least eport it as a straight news story, who; what; when; where; how. The truth will eventually out.

    Instead of charges were filed against six men today in.... They were charged with plotting to commit an act of terrorism against Fort Dix....The evidence in the charge was da da da da ...This evidence was gathered by the FBI in with the help of CWs over the last year....The men charged were da da da da.

    Not our KO. To him it is one more chance to throw a stone, for whatever reason he feels compelled to throw them.

    In his hands it becomes:

    The Republican presidential candidates' ULTIMATE PREMISE of COUNTER TERRORISM.

    The FBI CLAIMS to have broken up plot.

    The FLAW is the BREATHLESS REPORTING of the PURPORTED terror cell the BUREAU INFILTRATED after they brought a tape to a photo store to transfer it to a DVD.

    The details of the SUPPOSED PLOT DON"T HOLD TOGETHER.

    That didn't stop the CREDULOUS COVERAGE everywhere.

    At this point KO CHERRY PICKS words and phrases from the charge to MAKE HIS FAIRY TALE SYNOPSIS.

    His conclusion, THE FBI HAS ARRESTED SIX MORONS.

    And this from the same man who called Chris Wallace a monkey because he dared to ask Bill Clinton a question about his effectiveness re UBL and 911.

    KO, the ultimate reporter of facts who reviles those who outshine him with his WPITW awards.

    Grammie

    Can anyone point me to a transcript of his acceptance speech for The Molly Ivins Award?

    I am much more attuned to the written word.

    Thanks for any help.

    Grammie

    Can anyone point me to a transcript of his acceptance speech for The Molly Ivins Award?

    I am much more attuned to the written word.

    Thanks for any help.

    Grammie


    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at May 11, 2007 10:20 PM


    And you don't have to watch that pompous bastard act like a legend in his own mind.

    Bob's got it up on a new thread, Grammie.

    "I saw clips of Keith accepting the award.
    We're getting to him!
    He admitted he's under daily attack!|
    That's why his hair is turning white.
    Let's keep getting this guy."

    You morons aren't even a pimple on an elephant's back. Your delusions of self importance are a hoot !
    Like a wolfpack attack on a cheetah, where the forest is populated with 1000's of cheetah's.

    ROMNEY BLAMES THE WHOLE BUSH ADMINISTRATION FOR IRAQ:

    Lap this up fools !

    NEW YORK (CNN) -- As former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney tries to distinguish himself from his Republican rivals in the race for president, he's also distancing himself from President Bush.

    On the topic of Iraq, Romney gave perhaps his strongest criticism yet of the administration in an interview with CBS' "60 Minutes."

    "I think the administration made a number of errors," he told interviewer Mike Wallace. But, he said, Bush isn't solely to blame.

    "Well, he's the person where the buck stops," Romney said, "but it goes to the secretary of defense and the planning agencies, the Department of State -- it's the whole administration."

    He wouldn't use Wallace's term -- that the administration "screwed up" -- but he said that mistakes were made.

    "And we're paying for those mistakes," he added.

    Asked what those mistakes were, Romney said, "I don't think we were adequately prepared for what occurred. I don't think we had done enough planning. I don't think we considered the various downsides and risks."

    Thanks Cecelia. My request was based at least as much on the repulsion that having to see and hear him engenders as my preference for the written word.

    Has anyone else noticed that there have been very few attempts, and those feeble at best, to defend the Fearless Hero. What little input we have gotten is to change the subject to anything but KO.

    I nominate the Chicken Blogger who defended him with the claim that KO was following the mandate of our Constitution to withhold judgment because everyone is innocent until proven guilty for the Most Asinine Statement of the Year Medal. And he went on to say the blights on our fair country like me wouldn't understand that basic concept. Now, if only KO could apply that concept to anyone other than the great soap flake terrorist.

    Grammie

    Janet on Olby: "to him it's one more chance to throw a stone, for whatever reason he feels compelled to throw them."

    Isn't that what you do on this board pretty much every time you make a post?

    Yeah Mike, Janet whips a rock and you throw a pebble.

    I nominate the Chicken Blogger who defended him with the claim that KO was following the mandate of our Constitution to withhold judgment because everyone is innocent until proven guilty for the Most Asinine Statement of the Year Medal. And he went on to say the blights on our fair country like me wouldn't understand that basic concept. Now, if only KO could apply that concept to anyone other than the great soap flake terrorist.

    Grammie
    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at May 12, 2007 12:39 AM

    The blind partisan geriatric one would of course ignore these doozies:
    " We ought to arm college students" Michelle Maudlin Maulkin

    Bush's comment on the bicentennial in front of the queen.

    Bush again," God watches over us, just like Santa Claus does"

    and scores of others.....

    Yes Grammie , this site's queen of partisanship , like an old quarterhorse, never takes off those blinders.

    When you consider that England has a Queen, Spain has a king and the USA has a court jester, if you're looking for the most Asinine comment of the year, always refer to the court jester, Chimpy !

    I can't tell you all how flattered and honored I am by KO's fans.

    Rather than defend their hero they attack little old gray haired me.

    Grammie

    Mmmm....the fort dix six were arraigned and given a bail hearing yesterday!!!.....What about that death of habeas corpus the brilliant Keith Olbermann predicted?

    I believe we all heard the charges against these alleged terrorists....Is that not having the right to habeas corpus, people?

    Hello?

    Again, there will be no response because Keith Olbermann was wrong.......AGAIN!

    Ha!

    TVNewser completely ignored this.

    And Spud at ICN is offering a special translation service to tell us what he THINKS Olbermann really MEANT to say when accepting the award (and insulting our troops). Are they ALL in Olbermann's hip pocket?

    Thanks, Insider. That was priceless.

    Let me see if I have this straight? The Edward R Murrow of our time who was accepting the Molly Ivins Award (hey, Murrow never got that award) needs some dude named spud to translate what he REALLY REALLY meant when KO, the world's best news anchor, is speaking to a professional group associated with cable news.

    Why that makes everything crystal clear. Our problem here at OW is the wrong people are operating the site. R Cox should immediately hand the reins over to Spud who can translate for KO every night and only then write his critique for all of us to read and agree with.

    Grammie

    Mmmm....the fort dix six were arraigned and given a bail hearing yesterday!!!.....What about that death of habeas corpus the brilliant Keith Olbermann predicted?

    I believe we all heard the charges against these alleged terrorists....Is that not having the right to habeas corpus, people?

    Hello?

    Again, there will be no response because Keith Olbermann was wrong.......AGAIN!

    Ha!
    Posted by: cee at May 12, 2007 2:34 P

    Has there been some serious problems with habeas Corpus under this administration: You betcha !

    Has it NEVER worked ? of course not !

    Way to obscure the issues again Dweedle Dee Dweedle Cee.

    Billions in Oil Missing in Iraq, US Study Finds
    By James Glanz
    The New York Times

    Saturday 12 May 2007

    Between 100,000 and 300,000 barrels a day of Iraq's declared oil production over the past four years is unaccounted for and could have been siphoned off through corruption or smuggling, according to a draft American government report.

    Using an average of $50 a barrel, the report said the discrepancy was valued at $5 million to $15 million daily.

    The report does not give a final conclusion on what happened to the missing fraction of the roughly two million barrels pumped by Iraq each day, but the findings are sure to reinforce longstanding suspicions that smugglers, insurgents and corrupt officials control significant parts of the country's oil industry.

    The report also covered alternative explanations for the billions of dollars worth of discrepancies, including the possibility that Iraq has been consistently overstating its oil production.

    The Republicans have been good stewards with our money and the fiancial going ons in Iraq.
    NOT !

    Grannie: You are an inspiration. I'm LOL'ing at your comment regarding Spud. Perhaps Bob Cox DOES need to extend an invite to him so he can translate for us every night what it is the hell that Olbermann really MEANT to say.

    Yes..the patting on the back by the Republican Club members makes you think you're actually right about something.
    Think again !

    Goper, very interesting and alarming point you raise.

    "Has there been some serious problems with habeas Corpus under this administration: You betcha !"

    I am waiting with bated breath for your very long (has to be long based on your statement) chapter and verse for those of us who missed it all.

    Grammie

    grammie missed it all.
    What a joke !
    Holding her ears and yelling ," I can't hear you" must have been the reason.

    It was all documented at this site and in most newspapers and web sites across the world.
    And you're supposed to be taken seriously ?

    Ha !

    Chicken Blogger, if you speak for Goper, only yourself or are Goper I asked for the specific instances of people being denied their Habeus Corpus rights since the Homeland Security bill was passed.

    With all the hysterical rhetoric about GWB shredding the constitution, especially the long standing Writ of Habeus Corpus passed down to us from England, there has to examples for us all to know and study.

    The Supreme Court upheld the bill. We all need to know that the 7-2 decision in favor of it must be overturned.

    But how can we work to right this heinous wrong if we don't know the actual tyrannical actions of GWB and his henchmen.

    Grammie

    Check the other page , grammie.

    GOP is a disease took you to school.
    Now you need to stay after for detention for being so f---ing stupid and such a hard core, far right winger who won't ever let reason, facts or reality mess with your beliefs.

    anonyloon, it's called 'integrity', something you would know nothing about. The same reason President Bush could care less about his approval rating, integrity. Finishing a job, not quitting, like a libby would have done a long time ago, i.e. no integrity.

    It's called" integrity" to keep plodding and sending our young men and women to die in war that is unwinnable, eh ?

    No dictionary in this one's home.

    Pssssssssstt. It's called "insanity".


    Royalking...LOL
    A Napoleon complex if I ever saw one.

    Liberalism is a proven mental disorder.

    Jeff pulling out and reciting his Savage/ Rush/ Coulter notes.
    What a dope !

    Fact: America is becoming more liberal every day.
    They are turning away in droves from the far right ignorance of Cheney/Bush/Rumsfeld/Rove/etc.

    Fox News-#1. Rush-#1, Hannity-#2, Savage #3. Air America-Bankrupt. Need I say more?

    Has anyone seen a car with one of those 2004 "Bush/Cheney" bumper stickers on it lately? It's been a long time since I've noticed one.

    My community, which is about 50 percent Republican, used to be full of them, mostly pasted on the backs of hulking SUVs and brightly colored Hummers.

    Suddenly, I'm just not seeing the things anymore. I suppose it's possible that they all just fell off, but then why am I still seeing Kerry/Edwards bumper stickers?

    No, I suspect something else is at work: buyers' remorse, or maybe shame.

    Kerry edwards, lmao! Kerry-lost! Edwards-toast! Hows that hedge fund coming- "Im for the little guy."

    This guy royalking is really a frigging idiot.
    Is he serious ?

    Who's this 'donald' guy, is he gay?

    No comment on the "hedge fund?"

    No comment on the "hedge fund?"

    This guy has the comprehension skills of a developmentally delayed teenager.

    The post was about buyer's remorse and shame for voting for Bush/Cheney and he turned it into the Hedge Fund ?

    Positively amazing !

    Someplace, somewhere a village is looking for it's idiot !

    n why am I still seeing Kerry/Edwards bumper stickers.
    Posted by: Donald at May 13, 2007 2:06 AM

    No comment on the hedge fund?


    Chicken Blogger, just for you I am going to copy my response to Goper's so called proof of my being "so f---ing stupid and such a hard core, far right winger who won't ever let reason, facts or reality mess with your beliefs."

    Here goes:

    "Goper, you are still in the locker room talking a good game. All these laws that you are complaining about were enacted within the parameters of our three branches of government. Signing statements to legislation have been around since George Washington. The Executive, any and all Executive admins, have used secret internal memos and have advanced sub rosa foreign policy goals. Check out my personal hero FDR, second only to Winston Churchill and Ronaldus Magnificus in the 20th century,

    The history of our country has always been a struggle between the three branches vying to protect and expand their prerogatives under the constitution. At various times different branches exercise relatively more or less power. It is one of the strengths our Founding Fathers, men of rare and exceptional insight into human nature through the ages, gave us in our constitution that has guided and served us so well for hundreds of years.As an expert on Civics 101 none of this should come as a surprise to you.

    Now, to the question that you have not answered:

    "Has there been some serious problems with habeas Corpus under this administration: You betcha !"

    I am waiting with bated breath for your very long (has to be long based on your statement) chapter and verse for those of us who missed it all."

    The question I raised, and am still raising is examples (you imply wholesale violations) of Habeus Corpus being thrown under the bus. DING. At some point I raised the Supreme Court's 7-2 decision in favor of this admin's position re Habeus Corpus. Again, check out the Supremes upholding of this approach for centuries, several of them during FDR's tenure.

    Give me some specific instances of this wholesale violation of Habeus Corpus. Not talking points about what the impact is or could be or GWB will do, but actual instances of the violation of American citizens Habeus Corpus rights. The Fort Dix Six sure got their rights. Why? Because they are not Enemy Combatants, legal or illegal.

    This issue has been before the Supreme Court many times. Compared to Lincoln and FDR George Bush is a piker in what he has asked for, gotten and how he uses it.

    Two things you might want to consider. Our system of government works so beautifully because individuals are hamstrung in going too far in any direction based on any charismatic popularity or specific events that stir up wild passions. Secondly, any actions taken now because of your hatred of GWB will be something that future presidents will have to live with or devote time and energy to overcome. And surely some of those future presidents will be one of 'your guys'.

    Two parting thought. First, be careful what you wish for, it might become true. Second, never forget the law of unintended consequences."

    Grammie


    As I wrote last night that grammie doesn't get Civics 101 and that Bush has totally misaligned our precious checks and balances system.
    It's certainly not just me saying this.
    It's republicans, democrats and scholars alike.

    I gave you at least 5 examples of how Bush has abused his authority as president.

    But as you have proved time and time again, you're set in your ways and won't be swayed by facts and evidence.
    You are a stubborn old coot that probably still thinks "the US does not torture."

    I gave you at least 5 examples of how Bush has abused his authority as president.

    But as you have proved time and time again, you're set in your ways and won't be swayed by facts and evidence.
    You are a stubborn old coot that probably still thinks "the US does not torture."

    Posted by: The GOP is a disease at May 13, 2007 10:57 AM

    gopher, If President Bush ACTUALLY abused his power 5 times, don't you think he would have been impeached by now? One would think so. Also, ole man Waxinhisass would have been all over it. In your opinion, he abused his power. Just think, right now, a terrorist is getting a nice LONG drink of water.........courtesy of the US.

    44 deaths caused by the US torturing "suspected" enemy combatants, and this moron calls it a long drink of water.

    Bush hasn't been impeached because the Dems are all talk, no action. They promised their constituants they'd impeach and the Dems were dumb enough to fall for it. Now instead of blaming their own leaders for lying to them, the Dems are only too happy to continue their Bush-bashing but yet seem to lack the stones to do anything about what they perceive as impeachable acts by this president. Now either they ain't got the goods they claim they do or there's no there there. Or they're just cowards. With the Dems, it's probably both.

    The Democrats DID NOT promise to impeach.
    It was stated time and time again.

    Keep lying, right up to your next election loss in 08'.

    Conyers DID. Until they won the election and gained control of the House & the Senate and then he quickly removed all discussion of impeachment from his website. I guess once he realized he might actually do something other than just smack-talk, he panicked and tried to erase the evidence. That's what the Dems have as "leaders". You must be so proud.

    anonyloon, where's your 'abuse of power' evidence you spewed about?

    Cee and RK, this Chicken Blogger could be Bobo too. Check out the visual aspect and style.

    "The Democrats DID NOT promise to impeach.
    It was stated time and time again.

    Keep lying, right up to your next election loss in 08'.
    Posted by: at May 13, 2007 11:18 AM "

    Grammie :)

    way below average patriot is one and the same, as well. You know, 'bushwipe this and bushwipe that.'

    Conyers promised it and I have screen grabs to prove it. And certainly others either flatly stated they would support it or they heavily implied it. They got elected and did nothing. You accuse the GOP of being hypocrites but don't seem to hold your own party to the same standards. You seem to give them (and your beloved Olbermann) all the free passes in the world and are more than willing to lie about their prior actions, things that are easily proven, no matter how many times you accuse me of lying, you can't seem to acknowledge the FACT that your party leaders lied to YOU.

    Oooooooh Bwoooovine!

    ----
    way below average patriot is one and the same, as well. You know, 'bushwipe this and bushwipe that.'
    Posted by: royalking at May 13, 2007 12:31 PM
    ----

    Soooo, now it is not only Mike that posts under 20 different names, all of which you furiously fight, but *me* too?

    Thank you Bob, for the freak show of paranoid moron Bush Supporters!

    P.S. Whatever you do, *do not get rid of BovineQueen*

    LOL!!

    way below, when I respond to your post and address it to 'booby' or 'bob' you always respond to it, that proves it. Must be the meds or lack of. Aside from the fact that liberalism is a mental disorder, to begin with, compounded w/your added issues and look out!

    BovineQueen angrily moooooos:

    ---way below, when I respond to your post and address it to 'booby' or 'bob' you always respond to it, that proves it. Must be the meds or lack of. Aside from the fact that liberalism is a mental disorder, to begin with, compounded w/your added issues and look out!
    Posted by: royalking at May 13, 2007 2:53 PM ---

    Say Bovine, according to your own post, when I post addressing BovineQueen or Bush Supporters and you respond, indeed, you prove it!

    LMAO!!

    I suggest you keep a list of all the different names, including the times when I post anonymously... oh don't forget the "styles"... that way you can always *debunk* me.

    Freakin' paranoid moron Bush Supporters

    The alcohol must be kickin in, booby has transformed into way below average patty.

    Grammie is one sad pathetic old woman ! She's so concerned if I have more than one identity !

    You have nothing else to worry about in your little world ?

    Conyers promised it and I have screen grabs to prove it
    -Brandon

    This may come as a shock to you, but Democrats are entitled to speak what's on their mind and have opinions.

    Because one person ( or 5 whatever) said something, the whole party has failed us ?

    Your reasoning skills leave much to be desired !

    The only thing we can say with certainty about JH a/k/a G, Cee a/k/a Brandon, rk a/k/a Jeff, he/she/it/they can swim. Otherwise he/she/it/they would have drowned when the "Deliverance" lake was flooded. I am actually pleased he/she/it/they all think Bush is a great President and that he/she/it/they go prostrate before Falafel the Magnificent. A leader can be judged by his or her followers, and with this individual/group as the standard, the rational and intelligent among us have a strong confirmation of our own judgment and the rightness of our cause. Of course, he/she/it/they make me rethink the Theory of Evolution. Do you suppose that with Evolution there is a parallel Devolution?

    Anonymous Keith Olbermann idiot: you stated that NO Democrats promised such a thing and that I was lying about it. The only problem with your argument is that YOU were lying because Conyers most certainly did. He's a Democrat. He has a leadership position. And he did promise and has since back-peddled on the issue of impeachment. Those are facts. What you're peddling is a lie. And what about all those changes that Pelosi and company promised to make? I guess campaigning and going to White House Dinners and the like keep getting in their way from them actually getting any work done. And since you Olbyloons just love to point out the popularity rating for this president, have you checked the latest polls regarding popularity and approval for the Congress? They are as bad as Bush's ratings.

    Furthermore, I am me on this board and no one else despite your lunatic ramblings and assertions. Bob can see our IP addresses and has been known to ban those who use multiple user names,

    I can imagine how awful for you, Brandon, et al, to have been so slavishly devoted to a President who has hurled himself into irrelevancy so quickly and so far in advance of the end of his term. It is truly a phenomenon none of us have ever witnessed. But, Brandon, et al, you will survive this, and, in time, you and your band may again achieve a modest level of political respectability. What troubles me is that a number of real conservatives, people of substance and worth, people who have a valuable voice which needs to be heard are going down with the faux/PR conservatives. Hitch your star to the Viceroy of Viagra and Falafel the Magnificent, to the Compassionate Conservative and his toady Turd Blossom, and that is inevitable, I suppose. I am additionally troubled by the fact that we go 1 1/2 years listless and leaderless. It is a shame that our system doesn't have the same type of safety valve that allowed Blair to leave before the village was in ruins. Of course, Bush would never have the prudence nor the courage to leave. With Bush, it's all about Bush and only Bush. Shameful. Ugly.


    McCain Dismisses Democratically-Elected Iraqi Parliament's Call For US Withdrawal

    NBC News

    From "Meet the Press":

    MR. RUSSERT: But the duly elected people's bodies, the U.S. Congress and the Iraqi parliament, say they want a troop withdrawal. That's more than a poll. Isn't that the voice of the people?

    SEN. McCAIN: Well, the--as far as the Iraqi parliament is concerned, the Iraqi government obviously doesn't feel that way, their--the representatives in their government. Second of all, there is some, a certain amount of domestic political calculations involved there in what the Iraqi, quote, "parliament" said. The Iraqi parliament has their ability to, to voice their views, and I respect them. And I, as I say, I--I'll repeat again, I understand how democracies work. I saw it in Vietnam. I saw it in Vietnam. And I saw it in Vietnam, the predictions, that everything would be a worker's paradise in, in Vietnam if we left. And thousands were executed and millions went to re-education camps. So I, I believe that, that the consequences of failure, and particularly sitting on the large reserves of oil they have, particularly considering the influence of al-Qaeda is concerned, you will see enormous destabilization in the region, and that's my duty. That's my obligation. It's not my privilege. And political calculations should not enter into any information or position that I take on, on a, on an issue of national security.

    Not only McCain. The Iraqis want us out but Cee, Brandon , jeff, grammie , the whole gang of idiots want us to stay against the iraqi wishes !

    IRAQ WAR
    U.S. options in Iraq could soon narrow, ranging from unpleasant to unthinkable
    By Warren P. Strobel
    McClatchy Newspapers

    WASHINGTON - Now that moderate Republicans have told President Bush that time is running out on his Iraq policy, he'll have to demonstrate real progress in a matter of months or face choices that range from the highly unpleasant to the nearly unthinkable.

    September, only four months away, is increasingly looking like a deadline. By then, it should be known whether Bush's "surge" strategy of increased U.S. troops in Iraq is having an impact and whether Iraqis have undertaken long-promised changes to ease sectarian warfare. The 2008 U.S. presidential election will be in full cry.

    After more than four years of conflict in Iraq, analysts say, there aren't many options left.

    As former U.S. officials Carlos Pascual and Kenneth Pollack, now scholars at the Brookings Institution, wrote recently:

    "The four basic options facing this - and the next - administration are victory, stability, withdrawal and containment. Victory, as defined by President Bush, is not currently attainable."

    Here is a look at some of the American options:

    STAYING THE COURSE

    The president has never wavered from his belief that "failure is not an option" in Iraq, and he may well try to stick to that strategy for the rest of his tenure.

    "I don't think that Bush has any interest in giving up on Iraq," Pollack, a former CIA analyst and White House policymaker, said in an interview. "I think he's going to ride the surge until he's out of office."

    Pollack and some other analysts, including Frederick Kagan of the conservative American Enterprise Institute, who was an architect of the "surge" policy, say it's much too early to declare failure. Two of the five brigades of additional U.S. troops, each comprising about 3,500 soldiers, have yet to begin operations in Iraq, they note.

    Yet by most accounts, the best that Bush can hope for now is a slow crawl toward stability. That would mean a reduction in - but not an end to - violence and moves toward national reconciliation on key issues, such as distributing oil revenues.

    Key to calming tensions are Iraq's neighbors, including Iran and Syria, whom the Bush administration has only now begun lobbying.

    Bush might find some public support for hanging tough, or at least avoiding a precipitous withdrawal. Public opinion polls show that a majority of Americans want to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq, but few favor doing it immediately.

    Yet the warning to Bush from 11 House Republicans on Tuesday underlines how the political ground will slip from under him if there's no progress and he rebuffs calls for change.

    WITHDRAWING THE TROOPS

    Even if a U.S. troop withdrawal began today, it would take at least eight to 10 months to get American soldiers, their equipment and the infrastructure they brought with them out of Iraq. Depending on the scenario, some U.S. troops would redeploy to other bases in and around the Middle East; many would return home.

    Since taking control of Congress in January, Democrats have pushed for a withdrawal timetable.

    Bush warns that leaving Iraq now would create a haven for Islamic terrorists, who could destabilize the Arab world and seek to attack the United States. (Al-Qaida had no presence in Iraq under the late President Saddam Hussein before the March 2003 U.S. invasion.)

    But Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., said that threat is overblown.

    "I don't accept that. I think that runs counterintuitive to everything I know about the people in the Middle East," Hagel said in May 8 speech to the Council on Foreign Relations. "The Sunnis and the Shias and the Kurds do not embrace al-Qaida. They do not support al-Qaida. They do not want al-Qaida running their country."

    Others acknowledge the risks, but say they are outweighed by the costs of the war, including damage to U.S. prestige; a stretched Army; and the diversion from other terrorist threats. The debate on U.S. troops in Iraq essentially comes down to whether proponents thinks the risks are greater in staying or going.

    "Sadly, at this point the best thing we can do is deliberately get out of there," said retired Maj. Gen. John Batiste, who led the Army's 1st Infantry Division in Iraq.

    Won't Iraq become a terrorist safe haven? "It probably will be. But you know what? We created this condition," said Batiste, arguing that it's more important to fix the Army and rethink U.S. counterterrorism strategy.

    A January 2007 National Intelligence Estimate warned that a rapid withdrawal of U.S. troops "would lead to a significant increase in the scale and scope of sectarian conflict in Iraq." Al-Qaida in Iraq would use parts of the country to plan terrorist attacks inside and outside Iraq, the report said, and Turkey might invade to stop Kurdish moves toward independence.

    Pollack, who was a supporter of overthrowing Saddam, said the Bush administration ignored all the risks of an invasion and assumed that the best-case scenarios would come to pass. Now, he warned, withdrawal supporters are making the same error.

    "We shouldn't leave Iraq the same way we went into it," he said.

    CONTAINING THE DAMAGE

    If the United States decides it can't stop civil war in Iraq, an option short of withdrawal is to redeploy U.S. troops out of Iraq's cities and closer to its borders. There, they would provide haven for refugees fleeing the violence and try to stop foreign fighters from crossing into Iraq.

    U.S. diplomacy would be pivotal in preventing Iraq from becoming a battlefield for its neighbors. Washington would have to persuade Iran, Turkey and Saudi Arabia not to intervene to defend their interests.

    The past record of containing spillovers from civil war "is poor," states a January Brookings Institution report. "Despite these odds, if Iraq does descend into all-out civil war, the United States probably will have no choice but to try to contain it."

    The report recommended more than a dozen steps, including establishing "catch basins" in Iraq borders to protect refugees. "This option would require the extensive and continued use of U.S. forces," it said.

    Pollack acknowledged that containment "is going to be hard to make work" politically, not least because of the sight of U.S. soldiers ignoring the likely ethnic slaughter in Baghdad and other cities.

    Another option, supported by Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., and others, is to partition Iraq into zones for Sunni Muslims, Shiites and Kurds. The proposal hasn't won wide backing.

    Anonymous Keith Olbermann fan/idiot: You can't admit you were wrong and I was right can you? I have proof that your leaders promised you impeachment. To date they've nothing of the sort and aren't likely to with Pelosi even vowing as much. So what do you do? The usual Olbermann-distraction, post a totally unrelated article in hopes that you won't have to admit you got caught lying again. No wonder you don't use a user name and prefer to remain anonymous.

    By the way, and for the record, and it's not the first time I've said this, I was against entering Iraq from the very start. I knew it would be a disaster in the making and I was right. Those people have been waring amongst themselves since time began and I imagine they will be until time ends. I do however support our troops as I have three family members over there currently serving this country. And I take great offense at Olbermann suggesting that they are mentally ill.

    Hey Brandon!

    ---
    By the way, and for the record, and it's not the first time I've said this, I was against entering Iraq from the very start. I knew it would be a disaster in the making and I was right. Those people have been waring amongst themselves since time began and I imagine they will be until time ends. I do however support our troops as I have three family members over there currently serving this country. And I take great offense at Olbermann suggesting that they are mentally ill.
    Posted by: Brandon at May 13, 2007 9:07 PM
    ---

    Perhaps you've commented on this before, but if
    "...Those people have been waring amongst themselves since time began and I imagine they will be until time ends..."
    why should any more American lives be lost?

    Not only McCain. The Iraqis want us out but Cee, Brandon , jeff, grammie , the whole gang of idiots want us to stay against the iraqi wishes !

    Posted by: at May 13, 2007 8:10 PM

    This is too funny, I just read an article on the USA Today rag the other day and it said that all of the top Iraqi officials wanted us to stay.

    Oooooooh Bwoooovine!

    ----
    This is too funny, I just read an article on the USA Today rag the other day and it said that all of the top Iraqi officials wanted us to stay.
    Posted by: royalking at May 13, 2007 9:56 PM
    ----

    *Top Iraqi officials* , Bwooovine. Those that will be able to flee when the house of cards finally comes down.

    I ask you before, and I ask you again Bwoooovine. What should the USA do with the thousands of fleeing Iraqies when the pull out starts? Are you willing to house a few at the farm?

    Good work!

    I ask you before, and I ask you again Bwoooovine. What should the USA do with the thousands of fleeing Iraqies when the pull out starts? Are you willing to house a few at the farm?

    Posted by: Average American Patriot at May 13, 2007 10:08 PM

    Why would they be fleeing when you, mickey and all of the other loons have said over and over that WE are creating more and causing all of the terorrist actions in Iraq? If you loons are right, when we leave they can go back to their happy go lucky lives that they had before, right? I don't think we should have to babysit them any more. I think all you enemy defenders should pack up and move over there, since you know so much about them and love them so much, right?

    Wooooh Bwooovine!

    You are again mixing the civilian population with the terrorists.

    Regarding the increased terrorist activity, it is not *us loons* saying it, is the Pentagon. For sure, you are going to label them *traitors* too.

    Nobody wants to move into a war zone. On the contrary, everybody able to flee will try, and guess where they want to go?
    Does "Chalabi" ring a cow bell, Bovine?

    That is why the issue of the Iraqi refugees is already being debated. The figures mentioned go from around 10,000 to 12,000, and Oh! SURPRISE! the "compassionate conservatives," like you Bovine, want nothing to do with them.

    I suggest you to ask this question to those ex-Bush Supporters turned Nouveau Real Raygun Repuglicans running for President.
    Let's see how they propose to clean up Jr's mess.

    booby, if there was a war going on in your neighborhood would you hang around? It's funny how you loons change your tune every other day. You guys can't make up your mind who to blame or point your finger at anymore. Yes, deny it all you want or use the pentagon as your little scape goat, you loons were and some still do, were spewing that WE were causing all of the problems in Iraq.

    Jeff, you are one screwed up human!

    mickey and booby-debunked again.

    Jeff, in the several months you've been posting on this board, you've yet to 'debunk' ANYTHING....EVER! I don't think you even know the meaning of that word.

    - You have however, provided plenty of laughs at times.

    AND

    - You have illustrated just how simple minded SOME right wingers can be....many times....and THAT isn't a laughing matter.

    It's obvious why you didn't jump in and try to defend your little lunatic buddy, patty/booby. You can't. That speaks volume.

    Why do I need to 'defend' him Jeff?

    After all, arn't YOU his 'opponent'....who would need to be 'defended' against you?

    Jeff, your own words are your worst enemy....and the funny thing is, you don't even know it!

    Jump in, spew, run away! lol.

    Donald,

    Perhaps you are not seeing the Bush/Cheney bumper stickers anymore is because they have traded in the vehicle it was on and bought a NEW car thanks to tax cuts and a roaring economy.

    Keith on Bush/Republicans...ala Groucho Marx...

    whatever it is, I'm against it.

    Good work!

    Good site!

    Donald,

    Perhaps you are not seeing the Bush/Cheney bumper stickers anymore is because they have traded in the vehicle it was on and bought a NEW car thanks to tax cuts and a roaring economy.
    Posted by: Gregory at May 15, 2007 2:56 AM

    A "roaring " economy that most people aren't profiting from. The Middle Class and poor are still struggling to keep their heads above water, getting their medical benefts cut, having much less in their pockets due to the oil companies raising gas prices to outrageous levels...which makes food prices and everything else rise.
    CEO's:Reaping in record profits
    The rest of us: Hurting badly !

    Dumbass !

    Nice site!

    Nice site!

    CEO's:Reaping in record profits
    The rest of us: Hurting badly !

    Dumbass !

    Posted by: at May 19, 2007 1:04 PM
    Jobs are PLENTIFUL, get a new one, or get ONE!

    Royalrimjob doesn't understand a single issue.
    Educated yourself. You need sociology 101 !

    anonyloon, the dems just raised the minimum wage. Didn't that help you? The way the dems acted it was goint to save the world! Just more wasted time by the dems?

    Jeff, you're showing your ignorance ....AGAIN!

    The minimum wage has not been raised...not yet anyway...so it hasn't helped anyone yet.

    Yes, a minimum wage bill was passed, after much negotiation with the House and Senate, but then it was added to the War Funding bill that was vetoed just a few weeks ago.

    I sure hope internet ignorance isn't contageous!

    As usual the point zings right over the queen o' the olbyloons pin head!

    So what 'point' was that Jeff?

    The continuing saga of your ongoing ignorance on full public display....was that the 'point' you were just referring to?

    In the Times of London, there was a front page story about global warming and how the ocean is not absorbing CO2 at the usual rate. This is a very dangerous thing.

    I know that you, Mr Bush and I disagree about the role humans play in causing global warming. Okay, fine. (Actually, it's not fine... but for the sake of argument, let's pretend it is.)

    But I have a feeling that we can find common ground, and that like me and so many other parents you sometimes lie awake at night, anxiously thinking about how to make the world a better place for your kids, and about keeping them safe from the evil doers who mean them harm.

    Coming up with a sensible energy policy, one that ends our reliance on oil (especially foreign oil), will allow you to do both -- simultaneously protecting the planet and helping stop the funding of many of the "evil doers," including Iran, Russia, and Venezuela. As an added bonus, our political leaders will no longer have to go to the big oil companies, hat in hand, asking for donations so they can run for office.

    Make a bold move in this area, Mr. President, and it will help the economy, dry up a major funding source for terror, and possibly even salvage your presidency (though, I have to be honest, Iraq a going to be hard to paper over). It will also allow concerned parents all over the country to get a few hours more sleep.

    Do it for the children -- both yours and mine.

    The above title should read:
    Talking to a rock !

    DID JERRY FALWELL GO TO HELL ?

    Giuliani's triumphant moment in the Fox Republican presidential debate -- I know America's Mayor won, because Sean Hannity and Carl Cameron told me so -- came when Rudy pretended that Ron Paul said that 9/11 was our fault.

    Like Lloyd Bentsen praying for Dan Quayle to compare his own youth to Jack Kennedy's, Rudy had been waiting all night for someone dim enough to dis his 9/11ishness.
    It turned out to be Congressman Paul who hit that tripwire. Paul said that decades of American meddling in the Middle East had sewn the anti-Americanism that eventually led to terrorism. From the CIA coup that replaced Mossadegh's Iranian democracy with an authoritarian Shah who'd keep the oil flowing to the West, to the American military bases sprinkled through the Gulf region, the US has acted for generations as though aggressive pursuit of American national interests would bring with it no negative consequences to our standing with the people of the region. This is what Paul, though not as articulately as one might have hoped, explained had created a seedbed for al-Qaeda.

    No, intervened Rudy, to thunderous (though forbidden) audience applause, whose volume exceeded even the (also forbidden) laughter at Governor Huckabee's joke about John Edwards spending too much money (you know how those gals are) in a beauty shop (not a barber shop, where real men -- you know, Republicans -- go). No, said Rudy, here's what caused 9/11: They hate us for our freedom.

    Rudy's macho solo came just hours after all the Republican candidates' campaigns had issued condolence statements on the death of GOP hero Jerry Falwell. It was Reverend Falwell, of course, who had notoriously said on 9/11 that the terrorists hate us for our freedom to be gay, they hate us for our freedom to be lesbian, they hate us for our women's freedom of choice, they hate us for our freedom to be secular, they hate us for our freedom to have civil liberties, they hate us for keeping God out of government, they hate us for the ACLU and People for the American Way. "I point the finger in their face," said Falwell about liberals, the World Trade Center still smoldering, "and say, 'You helped this happen.'"

    Giuliani's outrage at Ron Paul is the kind of Republican indignation usually reserved for straw men, for caricatures of the Democratic view that US national security interests are best served not just by a strong military deterrent, but also through multilateralism, political engagement, public diplomacy, a commitment to human rights and economic development, and the rest of what used to be known, before the sainted Gipper, as the bipartisan consensus on American foreign policy. What Giuliani did, in effect, was to borrow Falwell's attack on liberals and aim it at Ron Paul. "You're a fag, Ron": that was Rudy's response to what used to be Republican foreign policy doctrine, too. "You homos hate yourselves."

    There were plenty of other opportunities in the Fox debate for Republican candidates to prove their macho, thanks to the hypothetical scenario -- straight out of the Fox show "24" -- that Brit Hume posed near the thrilling conclusion of the program. It had something to do with terrorists destroying three American shopping malls, and a captured terrorist who knew when the bomb would go off in a fourth mall: in other words, the "ticking time bomb" scenario which all American military and intelligence specialists have declared to be a confection of fevered Hollywood minds, rather than having anything to do with the real world of terrorism and interrogation. But this hypo from Planet Clancy permitted each of the candidates except McCain, who actually served in the military and knows what torture means, to claim that his own balls were truly big and clanky enough to authorize "whatever it takes," to prove that he among all the other candidates had the least compunctions about tearing up our faggy Constitution when faced with a suicider from Central Casting.

    It gave me the feeling that if only Michael Dukakis had proposed waterboarding Kitty Dukakis' hypothetical rapist, George H.W. Bush would never have been elected president.

    You didn't have to watch the Fox debate all the way to Rudy's Quayle moment to know something odd was afoot. Right at the beginning, as each candidate was introduced, a graphic appeared with the following data: Age. Religion. Family. Career. I suppose I shouldn't have found it breathtaking that Religion was the second identifying feature -- not from the network where Bill O'Reilly's synonym for Democrats, "secular progressives," is just another word for Satanists. Still, the naked injection of religious denomination into a debate for candidates for the country's highest civic office stuck me as Fox's way of saying -- as a kind of winking tribute to Jerry Falwell -- "Fuck you" to People for the American Way. Plus, with Religion being listed just beneath how old they are, it turned Age into a kind of Meet-Your-Maker-Meter, a countdown to their eternal reward. On the other hand, ya gotta laugh at the data included under Family: the wife, the kids, the odd step-kid, but no mention of prior spouses, let alone prior spouses' prior spouses. The only statistic missing was dick size, but that willingness-to-torture hypo turned out to serve very nicely as a proxy for that.

    I don't know enough about theology to know whether, when people die, they go to the Place that their own One True Religion believes in, or whether they go to a different Place that another, Truer Religion believes in -- whether each of us gets to decide only for ourselves what throne will judge us, or whether we each get to determine the ultimate fates of everyone else. Those suiciders: are they enjoying their virgins in Islamic eternity, or are they burning in Baptist hell? Is Revered Falwell now in the lap of the Lord, or is he somewhere else, a less paradisiacal where Methodists, Seventh Day Adventists, Catholics, Presbyterians, once-born Episcopalians, and other non-members of The 700 Club end up?

    I suppose the only way to answer question that would be a poll, like the text-message poll that Fox ran at the end of the debate. It made Sean Hannity apoplectic that Ron Paul won that poll for most of the evening, with Giuliani a distant third. That drove Hannity to keep reminding his audience that the very poll he and Alan Colmes were exhorting their viewers to enter, the same coolio Foxy interactivity they were relentlessly promoting, was in fact completely meaningless. Vote in our poll! Pay attention to this! Don't pay attention to this! This means nothing!

    Not a bad metaphor for the whole of the night.

    The above was written by Martin Kaplan, research professor and associate dean
    of the USC Annenberg School for Communication.
    He has been a White House speechwriter; a Washington journalist; a
    deputy presidential campaign manager; a Disney studio executive; a
    motion picture and television producer and screenwriter; and a radio
    host.


    He graduated from Harvard College summa cum laude in molecular
    biology, where he was president of the Harvard Lampoon, president of
    the Signet Society, and on the editorial boards of the Harvard Crimson
    and Harvard Advocate. As a Marshall Scholar, he received a First in
    English from Cambridge University in England. As a Danforth Fellow, he
    received a Ph.D. in Modern Thought and Literature from Stanford
    University.