Buy Text-Link-Ads here
Recent Comments

    follow OlbyWatch on Twitter

    In

    John Gibson Welcomes Back the Infamous, Deplorable Keith Olbermann

    Philly wrote: Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. It's not shingles that makes you a ... [more](10)

    In

    Welcome Back, Olby!

    syvyn11 wrote: <a href="http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/keith-olbermann-reviving-worst... [more](9)

    In

    Former Obama Support/Donor Releases Song Supporting Romney/Ryan: "We'll Take It Back Again" by Kyle Tucker

    syvyn11 wrote: @philly I don't see that happening. ESPN has turned hyper left in recent... [more](64)

    In

    Blue-Blog-a-Palooza: Ann Romney Edition!

    djthereplay wrote: By mkdawuss on August 29, 2012 6:17 PM Will John Gibson be having a "Red-B... [more](4)

    In

    No Joy in Kosville...Mighty Olby Has Struck Out

    djwolf76 wrote: "But the FOX-GOP relationship (which is far more distinguished and prevalen... [more](23)

    KO Mini Blog



    What's in the Olbermann Flood Feed?
    Subscribe to Olbermann Flood Feed:
    RSS/XML

    KO Countdown Clock


    Warning: mktime() [function.mktime]: It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected 'America/New_York' for 'EDT/-4.0/DST' instead in /home/owatch/www/www.olbermannwatch.com/docs/countdown.php on line 5
    KO's new contract with MSNBC ends in...
    0 days 0 hours 0 minutes

    OlbermannWatch.com "My Faves" Set

    OlbermannWatch.com Favorited Photos from other Flickr Users

    Got OlbyPhotos? See some on Flickr? DO NOT email us. Send us a FlickrMail instead. Include a link to the photo. If we like the photo you will see it displayed in the Olby Flickr Flood above.

    New to Flickr? Sign up for a FREE Flickr account!


    Got some OlbyVideo? See some on YouTube? DO NOT email us. Send us a YouTube Messages instead. Include a link to the video. If we like the video you will see it displayed in our favorites list in our YouTube page.

    New to YouTube? Sign up for a FREE YouTube account!

    Red Meat Blog
    Keith Olbermann Quotes
    Countdown Staff Writers

    If they're not on Keith's payroll...

    ...they should be...

    Crooks & Liars
    Daily Kos
    Eschaton
    Huffington Post
    Media Matters for America
    MyDD
    News Corpse
    No Quarter
    Raw Story
    Talking Points Memo
    Think Progress
    TVNewser
    Keith Lovers

    MSNBC's Countdown
    Bloggerman
    MSNBC Transcripts
    MSNBC Group at MSN

    Drinking with Keith Olbermann
    Either Relevant or True
    KeithOlbermann.org
    Keith Olbermann is Evil
    Olbermann Nation
    Olbermann.org
    Thank You, Keith Olbermann

    Don't Be Such A Douche
    Eyes on Fox
    Liberal Talk Radio
    Oliver Willis
    Sweet Jesus I Hate Bill O'Reilly

    Anonymous Rat
    For This Relief Much Thanks
    Watching Olbermann Watch

    Keith Olbermann Fanlisting Site I
    Keith Olbermann Fanlisting Site II
    Keith Olbermann Links
    Olberfans
    Sports Center Altar
    Nothing for Everyone

    Democratic Underground KO Forum
    Television Without Pity KO Forum
    Loony KO Forum (old)
    Loony KO Forum (new)
    Olberfans Forum (old)
    Olberfans Forum (new)
    Keith Watchers

    186k per second
    Ace of Spades HQ
    Cable Gamer
    Dean's World
    Doug Ross@Journal
    Extreme Mortman
    Fire Keith Olbermann
    Hot Air
    Inside Cable News
    Instapundit
    Jawa Report
    Johnny Dollar's Place
    Just One Minute
    Little Green Footballs
    Mark Levin
    Media Research Center
    Moonbattery.com
    Moorelies
    National Review Media Blog
    Narcissistic Views
    Newsbusters
    Pat Campbell Show
    Radio Equalizer
    Rathergate
    Riehl World View
    Sister Toldjah
    Toys in the Attic
    Webloggin
    The Dark Side of Keith Olbermann
    World According to Carl

    Thanks for the blogroll link!

    Age of Treason
    Bane Rants
    The Blue Site
    Cabal of Doom-De Oppresso Libre
    Chuckoblog
    Conservative Blog Therapy
    Conservathink
    Country Store
    Does Anyone Agree?
    The Drunkablog!
    Eclipse Ramblings
    If I were President of USA
    I'll Lay Down My Glasses
    Instrumental Rationality
    JasonPye.com
    Kevin Dayhoff
    Last Train Out Of Hell
    Leaning Straight Up
    Limestone Roof
    Mein BlogoVault
    NostraBlogAss
    Peacerose Journal
    The Politics of CP
    Public Secrets: from the files of the Irishspy
    Rat Chat
    Return of the Conservatives
    The Right Place
    Rhymes with Right
    seanrobins.com
    Six Meat Buffet
    Sports and Stuff
    Stout Republican
    Stuck On Stupid
    Things I H8
    TruthGuys
    Verum Serum
    WildWeasel

    Friends of OlbyWatch

    Aaron Barnhart
    Eric Deggans
    Jason Clarke
    Ron Coleman
    Victria Zdrok
    Keith Resources

    Google News: Keith Olbermann
    Feedster: Keith Olbermann
    Technorati: Keith Olbermann
    Wikipedia: Keith Olbermann
    Wikipedia: Countdown
    Wikiality: Keith Olbermann
    Keith Olbermann Quotes on Jossip
    Keith Olbermann Photos
    NNDB Olbermann Page
    IMDB Olbermann Page
    Countdown Guest Listing & Transcripts
    Olbermann Watch FAQ
    List of Politics on Countdown (by party)
    Mark Levin's Keith Overbite Page
    Keith Olbermann's Diary at Daily Kos
    Olbermann Watch in the News

    Houston Chronicle
    Playboy
    The Journal News
    National Review
    San Antonio Express
    The Hollywood Reporter
    The Journal News
    Los Angeles Times
    American Journalism Review
    Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
    St. Petersburg Times
    Kansas City Star
    New York Post/Page Six
    Washington Post
    Associated Press
    PBS
    New York Daily News
    Online Journalism Review
    The Washingon Post
    Hartford Courant
    WTWP-AM
    The New York Observer
    The Washington Post


    Countdown with Keith Olbermann
    Great Moments in Broadcast Journalism
    Great Thanks Hall of Fame
    Keith Olbermann
    MSM KO Bandwagon
    Olbermann
    Olbermann Watch Channel on You Tube
    Olbermann Watch Debate
    Olbermann Watch Image Gallery
    Olbermann Watch Polling Service
    OlbermannWatch
    OlbyWatch Link Roundup
    TVNewser "Journalism"

    July 2013
    September 2012
    August 2012
    April 2012
    March 2012
    February 2012
    January 2012
    December 2011
    November 2011
    October 2011
    September 2011
    August 2011
    July 2011
    June 2011
    May 2011
    April 2011
    March 2011
    February 2011
    January 2011
    December 2010
    November 2010
    October 2010
    September 2010
    August 2010
    July 2010
    June 2010
    May 2010
    April 2010
    March 2010
    February 2010
    January 2010
    December 2009
    November 2009
    October 2009
    September 2009
    August 2009
    July 2009
    June 2009
    May 2009
    April 2009
    March 2009
    February 2009
    January 2009
    December 2008
    November 2008
    October 2008
    September 2008
    August 2008
    July 2008
    June 2008
    May 2008
    April 2008
    March 2008
    February 2008
    January 2008
    December 2007
    November 2007
    October 2007
    September 2007
    August 2007
    July 2007
    June 2007
    May 2007
    April 2007
    March 2007
    February 2007
    January 2007
    December 2006
    November 2006
    October 2006
    September 2006
    August 2006
    July 2006
    June 2006
    May 2006
    April 2006
    March 2006
    February 2006
    January 2006
    December 2005
    November 2005
    October 2005
    September 2005
    August 2005
    June 2005
    May 2005
    April 2005
    March 2005
    February 2005
    January 2005
    December 2004
    November 2004

    Google

    Olbermann Watch Masthead

    Managing Editor

    Robert Cox
    olby at olbywatch dot com

    Contributors

    Mark Koldys
    Johnny Dollar's Place

    Brandon Coates
    OlbyWatch

    Chris Matthews' Leg
    Chris Matthews' Leg

    Howard Mortman
    Extreme Mortman

    Trajan 75
    Think Progress Watch

    Konservo
    Konservo

    Doug Krile
    The Krile Files

    Teddy Schatz
    OlbyWatch

    David Lunde
    Lundesigns

    Alex Yuriev
    Zubrcom

    Red Meat
    OlbyWatch



    Technorati Links to OlbyWatchLinks to OlbermannWatch.com

    Technorati Links to OlbyWatch Blog posts tagged with "Olbermann"

    Combined Feed
    (OlbyWatch + KO Mini-blog)

    Who Links To Me


    Mailing List RSS Feed
    Google Groups
    Subscribe to Olbermann Watch Mailing List
    Email:
    Visit this group



    XML
    Add to Google
    Add to My Yahoo!
    Subscribe with Bloglines
    Subscribe in NewsGator Online

    Add to My AOL
    Subscribe with Pluck RSS reader
    R|Mail
    Simpify!
    Add to Technorati Favorites!

    Subscribe in myEarthlink
    Feed Button Help


    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    May 11, 2007
    Keith Olbermann Ridicules FBI, Brands U.S. Troops "misguided, overzealous" and mentally ill

    Keith Olbermann, MSNBC news anchor and co-host of the news channels recent coverage of the Democrat and Republican presidential debates, said in a speech Thursday "the people who are defending us" against the threat of terrorist attack are misguided or overzealous or suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder". Olbermann drew nervous laughter for his remarks mocking law enforcement officials. Olbermann was speaking at the annual AAN Awards luncheon hosted by the Association of Alternative Weeklies in Manhattan. Olbermann received an award named for the late Molly Ivins.


    This is the second time in three days that Olbermann has mocked efforts of law enforcement officials who arrested six men for allegedly plotting to carry out a terrorist attack at a military base in New Jersey. On the Wednesday telecast of Countdown with Keith Olbermann, he derided the efforts of law enforcement official in rounding up suspects dubbed the "Fort Dix Six", saying "the FBI arrested six 'morons'".

    In his speech to the newspaper trade group, Olbermann said,

    I sit there with no doubt that there's a threat. I have no doubt that there are terrorists. I have no doubt that many of the motivations of the people who are defending us against these things are absolutely sincere and many of them are at worst misguided or overzealous or suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder

    NOTE: We could have just as easily commented on Keith comparing himself to a firefighter rushing in to rescue people from a burning building, whining about being "attacked in every almost every imaginable way personally" or that he is "still waiting for somebody to come back with a rebuttal to the facts that I have tried to elucidate" but calling our troops "misguided, overzealous" and mentally ill was so obviously the low point in an otherwise shameful speech we had to lede with Keith disparaging the troops.

    A full transcript follows.

    TRANSCRIPT OF "IVINS AWARD" ACCEPTANCE SPEECH BY KEITH OLBERMANN

    While most people in broadcast and mainstream print media, I think, suspended their disbelief for a period of time after 9/11 for the most patriotic and important of reasons there was a danger of some sort facing the country, there was a government in power, we'll give them the benefit of the doubt. It became very evident, very shortly that this was not supposed to be a temporary arrangement but a permanent one and it is probably the only way out of the maze that we all find ourselves in to follow the bread crumbs left by alternate weeklies, monthlies, the blogs, the people who had some anger and some doubt and whereas they suspended their disbelief to some degree the same way we did, did not have to do so so publicly I guess is the best way to phrase it. I didn't plan to do this work or become eligible for the first Molly Ivins Award and it is overwhelming to me that I received it. It really was one of those circumstances I've used this analogy before I'll use it again. You're at a firefighters convention the building next door catches fire and everybody around you says you know I would go in there to the third floor and I'd bring seventeen trucks in for... well... no, no, no... you bring in fourteen trucks from over here go in through the fourth floor and you're standing there and you say are you going to go in and get the people out of the building and as they continue their technical discussion...you wind up saying "ahhhoom...I get it, I'm going into the building. I hope I'm good at it." Fortunately, my grandfather was a firefighter so the analogy is kind of apt and I just went in to see what would happen knowing that I might not get out, that there's enough power to the behind the people to whom we're trying to speak truth to know that it is very distinctly possible that you might not get out of that building but I thought "what the hell" to quote Archibald Cox if it worked great if not well at least I went down for a good reason so the only thing I can say this is testimony to is the necessity for everybody at every level of the media to think. Now this would seem to be a fairly evident, self-evident concept to sit there and think when you have a news story in front of you but apparently it isn't. I use to. I will use as an example for you this latest story about the current "terror plot" unquote to attack Fort Dix in New Jersey, posed as pizza delivery men, were going to shut off power and who decided to train and take videos of themselves in the Poconos and then have the video transfered to DVD at Circuit City. Anybody in the room see anything less than terrorizing (laughter), terrible in the plot or the individuals mentioned therein, anybody else but me see that and literally that's it, that's the whole thread, if it doesn't add up it's incumbent on all of us to just say you know the math just doesn't work here. I sit there with no doubt that there's a threat. I have no doubt that there are terrorists. I have no doubt that many of the motivations of the people who are defending us against these things are absolutely sincere and many of them are at worst misguided or overzealous or suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder perhaps but still when we look at it we need to set aside the fear we might have, any anxiety, just look to see if there isn't something that doesn't add up. So several times last year these things came out in the form of "special comments" and I think it was prudent to show a short clip because I believe that one is nine minutes long. (laughter) I have to go find out if I have a broken foot or not at about one o'clock so I have to begin to wrap this up already...if we had shown the whole special comment here I don't think either you or I would have been able to say anything here. But as I said it's an extraordinary honor. Molly Ivins is a cross-over icon I would say would be the best description did all forms of media, the sort of person...another way I'd like to emulate her I think if I have...I don't recall her facts ever being attacked. I recall her being attacked which is something I got to experience in the last eight to ten months which i I have been attacked in every almost every imaginable way personally and I'm still waiting for somebody to come back with a rebuttal to the facts that I have tried to elucidate so I thank you greatly for the recognition and greatly for your work. It is, it may seem to some degree that you are hitting your head against the wall at sometimes when it comes to the mainstream media but as I've heard from so many of my colleagues jeez I wish I wish I could say what you said or something like it and I say well then you'll get an opportunity at some point to say something like it go out and do it maybe one second out of your year or one paragraph out of what you write but the opportunity will arise so that the those of us who've had that sense of banging our reads against the wall members of your organization included remember each time you do it you knock another brick out of place and make it easier for the next guy to get through so thank you kindly. I will treasure this. (applause)


    Posted by Robert Cox | Permalink | Comments (232) | | View blog reactions
    user-pic

    232 Comments

    Misguided, overzealous and mentally ill are traits of the typical Olbyloon.

    This reads like a speech by a politician or leader of a political movement. Someone with a cause, an agenda or view to promote.

    It's not like any speech I've ever seen or heard by any other news reporter or journalist.

    Can you imagine a Peter Jennings or Brokaw making such a speech?

    Bizarre.

    And the Olbermann faithful will lap this crap up like milk. They hate the troops. They hate America. They want to see us fail in Iraq. They cannot seperate their hatred for the Bush administraiton from the troops. And Olbermann is lauded for his bullsh-t and treason.

    "many of them are at worst misguided or overzealous or suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder"

    If you're right KO and they are wrong, what will happen?

    But if they are right and KO is wrong, what will be the consequences?

    KO can just say, "Oops, sorry I was wrong."

    Unfortunately, the people defending this country don't have the luxury that KO has. That is, of being wrong.

    As the experts say, we have to be successful every time in stopping terrorist attacks. The terrorists only have to be successful one time.

    I would bet a mint that when Keith made the remark about many of our protectors being misguided or overzealous or suffering from PTSD, he thought he was being generous.

    And the Olbermann faithful will lap this crap up like milk. They hate the troops. They hate America. They want to see us fail in Iraq. They cannot seperate their hatred for the Bush administraiton from the troops. And Olbermann is lauded for his bullsh-t and treason.
    Posted by: at May 11, 2007 9:27 PM

    Spouting this old and tired clique just makes you look like an idiot.

    This 'old cliche' is sad, but, true.

    Read Olbermann's statement. Now try and defend what he said. There's the audio. There's the transcript. He's calling our troops insane. And you're insane for defending him!

    In your 25% right wing world it's true, moron,

    I bet back in 2000 had the FBI arrested 19 Arab men claiming they were planning to crash airliners into the WTC KO would of said the same thing he's saying now...its a distraction,fearmongering that they are morons and etc.

    BTW, how's the hunt for Bin Laden going?

    Wasn't Bush going to get him "dead or alive" ?

    Instead he attacked the wrong country and 100,000 deaths later...Bin Laden is still laughing at Bush !

    And Olbermann just called our troops insane. Come on--explain that. And leave George Bush out of your reply.

    "BTW, how's the hunt for Bin Laden going?"

    According to the news anchor KO who hosts the news show "Countdown", Bin Laden and terrorism aren't much of a threat. It's all been greatly exagerrated or overblown.

    The olbyloons are infuriated tonight, I love it! Let's see them defend their fearless leader now.

    "I have no doubt that many of the motivations of the people who are defending us against these things are absolutely sincere and many of them are at worst misguided or overzealous or suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder."

    Our troops are misguided, overzealous and suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder sez Olbermann. But somehow, it's W's fault that Olbermann said what he said? Nah, you know, I'm not getting that. I'm getting that Olbermann is an idiotic a--hole. Accent on a--hole.

    "The olbyloons are infuriated tonight, I love it! Let's see them defend their fearless leader now."

    They can't.

    On the one hand they have to say, like KO, that the terrorism threat has been totally made up by Bush and the evil Republicans to scare the electorate into voting for them.

    On the other hand, they have to say that Bush hasn't made us safer, that the war in Iraq has made us less safe and that Bin Laden is still running around plotting attacks.

    So, we're safe but not safe. The threat is not there but it's there. Bush has both made up the threat but also made that threat more dangerous.

    Oy.

    If we had a decent press, these glaring inconsistencies could be probed and revealed. But since most of the press is in the tank for the Democrats, they let these paradoxes go by.

    No they can't defend what Olbermann said when he makes statements like the one linked above where he calls THEM mentally ill. If a Bill O'Reilly or any fox person said such a thing they'd be gone tomorrow. I bet that this video will never get beyond Owatch. GOP-controlled media my ass.

    IMPLOSION!

    About time.

    "when he makes statements like the one linked above where he calls THEM mentally ill. "

    Right. When KO says that people who are concerned about terrorist attacks here are suffering from some mental disorder, then those who say Bush has made us less safe (because of Iraq, alienating our allies, angering the Islamic world) must also be mentally disturbed.

    According to KO.

    The Left says Bush hasn't made us safer. We're in danger.

    But according to KO, people who believe that we're in danger are not sane.

    KO is calling his own supporters mentally ill.

    Which makes it problematic, if not impossible, for them to defend him.

    But they will. It's part of THEIR mental disorder.

    Keith Olbermann could not understand radical terrorism if it slapped Bill O' Rielly in the face. Keith Olbermann obviously does not understand terrorism and should have refered the explanation to Olbermann Watch or Bill O' Rielly.

    Olbermann needs to have this gentleman on his show:

    http://www.lawrencewright.com/

    Lawrence Wright, author of the best book written about 9/11: The Looming Tower.

    He writes regularly for The New Yorker, hardly a neocon publication.

    Ask this gentleman if the threat from Islamic terrorists/jihadists is small to non-existent.

    But you know what? KO will NEVER have this person on.

    Because the scholar has views that don't fit into Olbermann's worldview.

    I am just so upste over Liberals, tonight ... it is over bearing. These people are obviously wrong and unhealthy for society --- the transcript and the entertainnment and media base is just so unbelievable ... The only thing really keeping me Independant Moderate is E. Schatz whose incompitance is just ... if he thinks he can slack off like he does and call himself conservatives is just beyond me !

    BTW, how's the hunt for Bin Laden going?

    Wasn't Bush going to get him "dead or alive" ?

    Instead he attacked the wrong country and 100,000 deaths later...Bin Laden is still laughing at Bush !

    Posted by: at May 11, 2007 11:07 PM

    A classic olbyloon/anonyloon tactic, when you got nothing, play the 'divert' card.

    Come on, guys. Give KO his just due.

    He was very tough on those who failed to realize that soap flakes mailed to him were a REAL BONA FIDE TERRORIST PLOT AND THREAT.

    A pizza delivery map making guy working with others who had assault weapons and were getting ready to buy explosives, RPGs and more assault weapons to attack a military base are a big joke.

    Soap flakes in the mail to him is a national crisis that the media ignored and some questioned.

    Perspective, please, perspective.

    Grammie

    Perspective, please, perspective.

    Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at May 12, 2007 1:15 AM


    Oh yeah. Substitute rightwing militia members training in the woods for the Muslim plotters. In this case, Ollbermann would be reporting the story in his most portentous and ominous intonations. References to FBI arrests would be made with a gravitas befitting the announcement of the apocalypse.

    If the FBI an other law enforcement agencies hadn't of stopped the terrorist attack at Ft. Dix, it is the left wing kooks, like Olbermoron, who would be the first to complain how Pres. Bush is doing his job. Since no one watches Olbermann, the world can tolerate his faux intellectualism elitist mentality. Its his hypocrisy and other like him that make him and the others truly dispicable.

    "BTW, how's the hunt for Bin Laden going?"

    Ha Ha...You know whats real funny?..is how scared the MSM,Libs and Dems like KO are that Bin Laden might be caught or killed in the next 2 years that worries them more than anything else.

    You know whats real sad....is that many right wingers actually believe what mlong just wrote at 3:57 AM.

    Didn't KO once almost have Yankee Stadium evacuated because of an unattended bag? Now he's not worried about some guys with guns practicing for a terrorist act.

    To attack the very people who put their lives on the line every day to protect us is unexcusable.

    Another story you won't hear on CD....http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18612770/

    He's suffering from something.

    Ya know what's really sad? I mean really sad?

    That People like Mike (I won't say LW's because I'll be kind and not put them in Mike's very little group) fall for Olby's crap, hook, line, and sinker.

    Did little Keifies foot hurt him?

    I'm surprised somebody got in there to video it. It sound like there was about ten people in the room.

    Molly Ivins I might never have agreed with but I have to say " At least I read her (unlike Dopey) and Keith Olbermann, you are no Molly Ivins".

    Plus didn't Keith say she gave all points? Wait a second! Keith doesn't! Oh great! This woman must be doing handstands in her grave!

    From a liberal icon to a third rate, teleprompter reading, Ted Baxter, hack lookalike. You far left freaks keep slipping in the gene pool!

    Oh before I forget it's another icon of the tin foli hat crowd's birthday this weekend.

    Yes the Rev. Jim Jones! I think all the fall off the table leftests that are here should be raising a glass of Kool-Aid to another one of their famous icons.

    Some moron from some wacky Dem site sent me a bunch of dopey talking points yesterday, and at the bottom he had posted a video of one of dopey's 'Special Comment for The Short Bus Crowd'. With a line posted believe this man he knows what he's talking about.

    I e-mailed him back, "Dude, I didn't know Ted Baxter was still alive"?

    I never got a response! That guy is probably saying to himself, "Who's Ted Baxter? Was he Jimmy Carter's vice President?

    Yeah dude, whatever!

    Why does anyone care what Keith says. The guy is preaching to his choir.

    Interesting reaction when Keith was the target of a vile attack by a "moron" (white powder incident). However, when it's someone else that may be under attack at Fort Dix, Keith is macho and full of bravado and dismisses the islamist perpetrators as "morons". Hmmm, I think we all know who the moron is in those two scenarios.

    As I mentioned above, we could have taken apart this speech in a number fo ways. Here's another...

    Keith brings up the Fort Dix Six case to illustrate what passed for a thesis to this half-stoned, rambling address - that its important for journalists to "think" when they are working on a news story. He says "the necessity for everybody at every level of the media to think. Now this would seem to be a fairly evident, self-evident concept to sit there and think when you have a news story in front of you but apparently it isn't."

    Prior to that he uses an analogy which he says he has used many times before - "You're at a firefighters convention the building next door catches fire and everybody around you says you know I would go in there to the third floor and I'd bring seventeen trucks in for... well... no, no, no... you bring in fourteen trucks from over here go in through the fourth floor and you're standing there and you say are you going to go in and get the people out of the building and as they continue their technical discussion...you wind up saying "ahhhoom...I get it, I'm going into the building."

    Got that?

    In other words, Keith is using analogy to criticize journalists ("firefighters") who, when confronted with an important news story ("fire"), discuss amongst themselves the best way to deal with the story ("technical discussion") while Keith just rushes forward without deliberation. Yet moments later he is admonishing his "colleagues" in the media for a rush to judgement in giving credence to the charges brought by the Philadelphia U.S. attorney in the Fort Dix Six case - all while precipitously deriding the danger posed by the six men without having done anything more than reading a wire service story about the arrests.

    Wouldn't Keith's call for journalists to "think" include doing things like reading the documents filed with the court? Calling the FBI or the U.S. Attorney's office or even someone like Pete Williams who covers the Justice Department for NBC News? Might he then have gotten some of the basic facts right about the case?

    1) The store was a Circuit City electronics store, not a "photo store" or a "Photomat (sic)"

    2) One of the men was a trained sniper who had fought in the Balkan Wars in the 1990's.

    3) One of the confidential witnesses was formerly active in the Egyptian military.

    4) At least one of the men had lived on the basis as part of a relocation effort under the Clinton Administration

    5) One of the men was able to secure a detailed map of Fort Dix from his father who ran a business near the base (pizza restaurant).

    6) Three of the men were in the country illegally and had a long rap sheet of minor offenses and drug arrests

    7) The group was already in possession of pistols, hunting rifles and semi-automatic weapons.

    The ONLY part of this story that even (very) remotely justifies Olbermann's derisive attitude towards these six men is the risk they took in turning over an incriminating video to someone they did not know in the mistaken belief that the clerk would not watch the video during the transfer process. The charging documents do not specify a "tape" but most software used to transfer video tape to DVD causes the monitor to display the video on the computer monitor during the transfer process).

    I think we can all agree that taking such a risk would have been extremely stupid. So, was this event as has been described in news accounts? Is what the FBI is saying being reported correctly? Is the FBI itself being accurate or are they perhaps trying to shield the identity of the actual informant? I would take the FBI at its word in this case but for some reason Olbermann accept this information at face value while dismissing the rest of the lead agents affidavit (or has he not read it).

    As noted previously, however, assuming this happened just as has been conveyed in the charging documents and in press reports - that one of these home-grown jihadis walked into a consumer electronics story, handed over an incriminating video tape and walked out with a DVD unaware that operational security had been compromised - it would hardly be the first time that a very dangerous person did something that would seem self-defeating or outright stupid.

    I can't help think of Va. Tech here. That nut case kills two people. He has to know that the police will respond immediately placing him in jeopardy and yet he sits around his dorm making video tapes and then strolls to the post office to mail a "manifesto" to NBC News. Looking back, had the police responded in an "overzealous" manner and shut down the entire campus, cordoning off every building, frisking every person, inspecting every bag, they would have caught this guy and 30 people who are dead would not be alive.

    "Molly Ivins I might never have agreed with"-Puck

    Of course you wouldn't agree with her, she always had her facts straight and knew what she was talking about.

    Keith doesn't care if soldiers are attacked at Fort Dix, after all, he believes they're mentally ill.

    Ubermoronn stated that he'll give the "benefit of the doubt" that there was "some sort of danger" after 9/11.

    Hey mickey, how do you feel now that your hero, Ulbermahn has called you a 'moron?' lol You've been silenced!

    Robert:
    "Wouldn't Keith's call for journalists to "think" include doing things like reading the documents filed with the court? Calling the FBI or the U.S. Attorney's office"

    Exactly.

    Reporters make phone calls, interview people, go to original source documents (like the court filings).

    They just don't go to Media Matters or Think Progress or even an AP or NY Times piece and then just repeat what those sources state.

    Just because something is stated in a wire service story (forget about liberal/left web sites) doesn't mean it's accurate.

    The job of a news organization is, to state the obvious, to collect and report news. It's not to take copy or news from other sources and just repeat things.

    From everything I've read about KO and his producers, they do very little if any original reporting. Calling sources, verifying statements or allegations, going to original sources, et cetera (a great example is KO's repeated assertion that Congress and the Administration took away American's habeas corpus rights; anyone who reads the actual legislation - the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 for example - can easily discover that that is not true).

    And yet this show wins awards and KO is considered the future of news broadcasting.

    Great.

    Robert, thank you for the transcription, listening to his rambling and poor quality sound was tuff. Too bad Kay wasn't there to "produce" it for him.

    Finally, someone from the Left saying what they truely believe. Have no doubt that this thinking resides in most of the left. They have hatred and contempt for our soldiers.

    From everything I've read about KO and his producers, they do very little if any original reporting. Calling sources, verifying statements or allegations, going to original sources, et cetera (a great example is KO's repeated assertion that Congress and the Administration took away American's habeas corpus rights; anyone who reads the actual legislation - the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 for example - can easily discover that that is not true).

    Posted by: Ohboy at May 12, 2007 12:26 PM

    Since when has Bush followed any law?
    Just b/c these Acts exist does it mean he has honored them?
    Use your brain, for more than spouting right wing propaganda !

    "Since when has Bush followed any law?
    Just b/c these Acts exist does it mean he has honored them?
    Use your brain, for more than spouting right wing propaganda "

    Oy. I know I shouldn't but I'll try to explain it again.

    Olbermann said THE LAW allowed Bush to ignore habeas rights of Americans.

    The LAW (actually two pieces of legislation) does no such thing.

    Again: Olbermann said Bush could do "A" based on legislation passed by Congress (those evil Republicans again).

    But the legislation did not say that Bush could do "A" (those evil Republicans forgot to permit him to do more evil).

    Please, pay greater attention in the future or we'll need to hold you back another year.

    Leave it to an Olbyloon to completely assign a different meaning to what Olberamnn said here. It seems that the Olbypologists have to do that a lot--apologize for or translate what Olberamann was "really saying". He said what he meant. he said what he said. Now he needs to apologize for insulting our troops or at least take his fat ass to Iraq and report from there. Maybe he'd have a better take on this war and on terrorists if he did.

    If Olby's such a brilliant writer, why wouldn't the man write an concise accetance speech. He's wordy and sounds as if he's rarely spoken in public. Had he been prepared maybe the speech wouldn't be open to interpretation.

    Goper, I asked you to cite examples of GWB not following the law of the land on another thread.

    You talk a great game of innuendos and generalities. That might be great pre game hype. But sooner or later you have get on the diamond, field or court to win the game.

    Give us all the verifiable examples of this happening, if you can that is.

    Hell, give us one example.

    Grammie

    What a boring ass speaker! Hope no one paid to listen to him.

    He's not much without a script is he? Hell, he's not much with a script!

    Goper, I asked you to cite examples of GWB not following the law of the land on another thread.
    Give us all the verifiable examples of this happening, if you can that is.

    Hell, give us one example.

    Grammie
    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at May 12, 2007 9:47 PM

    I'll give you a lot more than ONE, but Bush has consistently worked towards bypassing the Constitution for the last 6 years.
    It's not only what he has done, it's what's been his intent that has blemished this country.
    The old grey mare keeps living in her right wing world of denial !


    1. When Bush signed the reauthorization of the USA Patriot Act , he included an addendum saying that he did not feel obliged to obey requirements that he inform Congress about how the FBI was using the act's expanded police powers.

    2. WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The FBI is guilty of "serious misuse" of the power to secretly obtain private information under the Patriot Act, a government audit.

    The Justice Department's inspector general looked at the FBI's use of national security letters, in which agents demand personal and business information about individuals -- such as financial, phone, and Internet records -- without court orders.

    The audit found the letters were issued without proper authority, cited incorrect statutes or obtained information they weren't supposed to.

    3. Since the 2001 attacks, the administration has also asserted the power to bypass domestic and international laws in deciding how to detain prisoners captured in the Afghanistan and Iraq war. It also has claimed the power to hold any US citizen Bush designates an ''enemy combatant" without charges or access to an attorney.

    Now count how many have actually been convicted?
    Still not getting the picture, Grammie ?

    4.And in 2002, the administration drafted a secret legal memo holding that Bush could authorize interrogators to violate antitorture laws when necessary to protect national security. After the memo was leaked to the press, the administration eliminated the language from a subsequent version, but it never repudiated the idea that Bush could authorize officials to ignore a law.

    5.The issue heated up again in January 2005. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales disclosed during his confirmation hearing that the administration believed that antitorture laws and treaties did not restrict interrogators at overseas prisons because the Constitution does not apply abroad.

    In response, Senator John McCain, filed an amendment to a Defense Department bill explicitly saying that that the cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of detainees in US custody is illegal regardless of where they are held.

    The White House tried hard to kill the McCain amendment. Cheney lobbied Congress to exempt the CIA from any interrogation limits, and Bush threatened to veto the bill, arguing that the executive branch has exclusive authority over war policy.

    But after veto-proof majorities in both houses of Congress approved it, Bush called a press conference with McCain, praised the measure, and said he would accept it.

    What Grammie and the Bush apologists will never get is the basic civics lesson that there are three co-equal branches of government that provide checks and balances on each other is being fundamentally rejected by this executive branch.

    Grammie has either failed Civics 101 or just doesn't give a crap because after all, "They're her guys " !

    Thanks to "your guys," America is no longer the shining beacon of democracy for doing things the "right way".
    And don't you think for one moment that people will forget it, when they vote in 08'.

    Goper, you are still in the locker room talking a good game. All these laws that you are complaining about were enacted within the parameters of our three branches of government. Signing statements to legislation have been around since George Washington. The Executive, any and all Executive admins, have used secret internal memos and have advanced sub rosa foreign policy goals. Check out my personal hero FDR, second only to Winston Churchill and Ronaldus Magnificus in the 20th century,

    The history of our country has always been a struggle between the three branches vying to protect and expand their prerogatives under the constitution. At various times different branches exercise relatively more or less power. It is one of the strengths our Founding Fathers, men of rare and exceptional insight into human nature through the ages, gave us in our constitution that has guided and served us so well for hundreds of years.As an expert on Civics 101 none of this should come as a surprise to you.

    Now, to the question that you have not answered:

    "Has there been some serious problems with habeas Corpus under this administration: You betcha !"

    I am waiting with bated breath for your very long (has to be long based on your statement) chapter and verse for those of us who missed it all."

    The question I raised, and am still raising is examples (you imply wholesale violations) of Habeus Corpus being thrown under the bus. DING. At some point I raised the Supreme Court's 7-2 decision in favor of this admin's position re Habeus Corpus. Again, check out the Supremes upholding of this approach for centuries, several of them during FDR's tenure.

    Give me some specific instances of this wholesale violation of Habeus Corpus. Not talking points about what the impact is or could be or GWB will do, but actual instances of the violation of American citizens Habeus Corpus rights. The Fort Dix Six sure got their rights. Why? Because they are not Enemy Combatants, legal or illegal.

    This issue has been before the Supreme Court many times. Compared to Lincoln and FDR George Bush is a piker in what he has asked for, gotten and how he uses it.

    Two things you might want to consider. Our system of government works so beautifully because individuals are hamstrung in going too far in any direction based on any charismatic popularity or specific events that stir up wild passions. Secondly, any actions taken now because of your hatred of GWB will be something that future presidents will have to live with or devote time and energy to overcome. And surely some of those future presidents will be one of 'your guys'.

    Two parting thought. First, be careful what you wish for, it might become true. Second, never forget the law of unintended consequences.

    Grammie

    Grammie continues to ignore that Bush has given more power and keeps on trying to misalign the executive branch from the other two. Just check out the man who SHOULD be keeping HIM in check :

    Under the Bush administration, U.S. citizens can be detained as enemy combatants and arrested without being charged of any crime.

    At the House's Judiciary Committee hearing, Rep. Brad Sherman (D-CA) asked Attorney General Alberto Gonzales whether any U.S. citizens are “being held today, for over a month, who have been denied habeas corpus or access to an attorney.” Instead of giving an answer, Gonzales replied, “[Y]ou’re asking me a question I hadn’t really thought about.”

    Sherman then followed up and asked whether there any “U.S. citizens being held now by foreign governments or foreign organizations, without access to attorneys, as a result of rendition.” Gonzales again said, “It’s just — quite frankly, I hadn’t thought about this.”

    The Attorney General of the US sworn to uphold the laws of this country ..."doesn't think about it."

    There you have it !
    If this was a democratic administration ,you'd you screaming from the trees.
    But , they're "your guys" so you pontificate , tie yourself into knots and decare victory.

    gopher, Brad Sherman is a disgrace to public servants. An enemy defender like yourself. Does it make you feel proud to defend the enemy?

    So why hasn't the Congress done something to stop Bush if he's so out of control as you claim? Why haven't they moved to impeach him?

    After 6 years of inactivity and no oversight by the GOP Congress, NOW all of a sudden Brandon is insisting that Congress to do something.

    What a friggin hypocrite !

    According to little Jeffrey, if you hold your officials to accountability, you're a "disgrace and an enemy combatant."

    This moron needs to read less right wing garbage and try actually reading the Constitution.

    How am I being hypocritical? I think you're being hypocritical. You're claiming that Bush has done (or not done) X, Y, and Z and you claim he's unfit to be a president but yet youc an't explain the inaction of your own leaders now that they have the power to do something about him. Just like you can't explain why they all sat by and said not a word when we were preparing to go to war but now all of a sudden are claiming they were racked by doubts and fears and yet didn't have the courage to speak out. You can't defend them, you can't reconcile their actions with what they did then with what they're saying now and you know it. Face it, they lacked the courage of their convictions and were too afraid, for whatever reason (probably their popularity polls) to speak out. That's what you have for "leaders". And just how long is it going to take for Congress the Democratic congress to do what they were elected to do? the problem is that they're very used to complaining and not used to governing. Perhaps that's why their popularity level is as low as Bush's is these days.

    By the way, I love the crap that Spud at Inside Cable is spewing on what Olbermann "really meant" in this speech. Thanks Robert for throwing the smack-down on him over there. I see he hasn't come back with a reply as of yet.

    Sorry, I couldn't make out the outrageous comments from the endless, monotone droning.

    Gosh he is boring.

    ---According to little Jeffrey, if you hold your officials to accountability, you're a "disgrace and an enemy combatant."

    This moron needs to read less right wing garbage and try actually reading the Constitution.
    Posted by: at May 13, 2007 11:22 AM ----

    You are mistaken, BovineQueen doesn't read right wing garbage.

    He listens to Dr. Weiner, gargles, then spews on the *treasonous LBRULS*

    Where did you get the idea that BovineQueen can read?

    Good work!

    Ulbermahn is a Soros sock puppet hack!

    You shouldn't wear your bigotry so proudly, Joker. Greeks have made many fine contributions to America. Why do you despise them so? Is it that they are not Western Christians? In other words, your bigotry is both racial and religious? There is no place for that.

    "You shouldn't wear your bigotry so proudly, Joker. Greeks have made many fine contributions to America. "

    Soros was born in Hungary, knucklehead. Not Greece.

    Sheesh.

    You are just really the biggest darned knucklehead that has ever walked this planet.

    If the Olympics gave gold medals for knuckleheads, you'd win every time. Hell, you'd be given gold, silver and bronze.

    Wow.

    Are you serious? Olbermann is a Soros Sock Puppet? You obviously are one of the 28% who still think Bush is worth something and part of the even less percentage who hasnt realized that Bill O is a lucking funatic. Olbermann calling our troops insane? Misguided? No, Sir. Hes calling the men that aimlessly sign our troops off into battle without proper armor, hospitals, leaves of absence misguided, overzealous, and certainly mentally ill. Our troops are amazing. http://www.demockratees.com/warrior.html the man in that picture is an arabic-translator for the U.S. Army, yeah, a soldier. The left wing doesnt hate soldiers, just the men that send our soldiers into certain death for a worthless war.

    Also, I invite anyone that has a rebuttal to that to email me at nick.corcoran@gmail.com Thanks.

    The left wing doesnt hate soldiers, just the men that send our soldiers into certain death for a worthless war.

    Posted by: Nick at May 14, 2007 12:24 AM

    "Certain death", funny, how many hundreds of thousands have been deployed to date? 3000 deaths to date means certain death? Hang around nicky, we need a good laugh now and again.

    Jeff, I'm glad YOU think WELL OVER 3000 soldier's deaths, many times that number with life changing injuries, and many times that number condemned to a lifetime of debilitating traumatic stress disorder is 'funny'.....I don't think it's 'funny at all!

    It must be a strange place in that screwed up head of yours.

    Leave it to mickey to put words in my mouth and miss the whole point nicky was TRYING to make, which was wrong. No surprise. Spin, spin, spin.

    4 days and not a peep from a single olbyloon on Ulbermahns asinine comments. One threw in a "bin laden" ad a couple feeble spin attempts. Gotta love it. Keep up the good work, Bob. P.S. still waiting on my next marching order......lol.

    "So, when we're fortunate enough to catch them in advance, it's worth pausing to consider what they tell us about the broader threat we face. According to genius New York Times headline writers, "Religion Guided Three Held In Fort Dix Plot." You don't say. Any religion in particular?"

    The good ole Old York Times, defending the enemy, truly pathetic, to say the least.

    No Jeff, I didn't miss the point at all.

    Your dim little mind keeps assuming people are missing simple minded little points you are trying to make, when in fact, we 'get' every inane little point you make ....because your 'points' rarely rise above a third grade level in thought.

    Your 'point' was clear enough...that not EVERY soldier is condemned to "certain death", but that is NOT at all what Nick said....or even implied.

    Your response was to laugh at an idea that is anything but funny, no matter how you try spin it.

    There are a total of 3398 U.S. troop deaths with a full count of 3761 when you include our allies. how many died in 9/11, the "reason" we invaded over there. Im glad you think 3300 people dying is trivial, and laughable. Maybe not certain death, but thats certainly about 3398 more deaths than were necessary. Bush should be hung for each of them.

    Nick, you are being kind enough to leave out the US civilian 'contractor' deaths, which are never included in the 'official' tally. The last I heard, that number was over 650.

    also, royalking, next time you try to make an argument, dont choose 2 words out of my entire spiel to try and rebut, poorly at that. Who taught you how to argue? Worthless, just like this president, and most of your party

    Yeah, I know I am, i left out that number because I couldnt find a credible source for it. Blackwater man, shady stuff

    Nick to Jeff: "Who taught you how to argue?"

    Would you believe.....Michael Savage?.....LOL!

    There are a total of 3398 U.S. troop deaths with a full count of 3761 when you include our allies. how many died in 9/11, the "reason" we invaded over there. I'm glad you think 3300 people dying is trivial, and laughable. Maybe not certain death, but that's certainly about 3398 more deaths than were necessary. Bush should be hung for each of them.

    Posted by: Nick at May 14, 2007 1:48 PM

    So, nicky , your are obviously backpeddaling on your "certain death" spew, right? Think before you post, please.

    nickey and mickey-several hundred thousand deployed versus 4000 dead still doesn't add up to 'certain death,' keep backpedaling and spinning your way out.

    As was already explained to you Jeff, Nick never wrote what you accused him of writing. Only a simpleton such as yourself would have taken two words out of context, and then read what you did into his post.

    Many now being sent over there are facing "certain death"....Nick knows it, and I know it.....even YOU know it, as mentally challenged as you are.

    It adds up to "certain death" for over 4000...and many more yet to come.

    No spinning at all.

    "The left wing doesnt hate soldiers, just the men that send our soldiers into certain death for a worthless war."
    Posted by: Nick at May 14, 2007 12:24 AM

    I guess I can't read, looks like he not only implied but actually said 'certain death.' Spin all you want, even deny if you want, we all see what was said.

    Jeff sez: "I guess I can't read,"..........For once, we agree!

    mickey waves white flag.......

    "mickey waves white flag......"

    Jeff thinks 'winning' is defined by his declaring 'victory'.

    This is why he never 'loses' an argument....because he says he doesn't!

    Goper, you left out the series of actual questions and answers that you copied from Think Progress.

    Based on that the event was a bit more than you have laid out. Gonzales said he didn't want to leave the impression that there were any. He and Sherman agreed Gonzales would get back to him. If Sherman asking a question is proof of wrongdoing then I'll agree our rights as Americans are shot to hell.

    And the law that you are complaining about applies only to enemy combatant aliens, not US citizens and not ordinary illegal aliens such as three of the Fort Dix Six.

    Anyone being held as an alien combatant has three possible appeals.The appeals are first to a Military Commission, and if unsuccessful to the U S Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit and if still unsuccessful to the U S Supreme Court. Any American citizen being improperly labeled an ALIEN combatant has three shots to prove otherwise as well as prove they are not an illegal combatant, two of those chances in the two highest courts in the land. None of these appeals were available in prior admins.

    FDR's admin arrested some German nationals (soldiers out of uniform) in the US for sabotage along with an American citizen. They were all swiftly tried and hanged, including the American citizen, Was he trying to become dictator?

    FDR attempted to pack the Supreme by adding nine (I think) new sympathetic members on his own authority because he wasn't getting all the rulings he wanted for his economic plan. Now I would call that a true overweening power grab by the executive and a bad mark on his record.

    You have also not addressed the verifiable points I raised that GWB is exercising the same powers that all our President's have.

    "All these laws that you are complaining about were enacted within the parameters of our three branches of government. Signing statements to legislation have been around since George Washington. The Executive, any and all Executive admins, have used secret internal memos and have advanced sub rosa foreign policy goals. Check out my personal hero FDR, second only to Winston Churchill and Ronaldus Magnificus in the 20th century,

    The history of our country has always been a struggle between the three branches vying to protect and expand their prerogatives under the constitution."

    The world and historical perspective and precedent didn't start in January 2001. Again I ask for specific examples of American citizens being denied the Writ of Habeus Corpus while being kept in some deep dark dungeon. with the world totally oblivious to it.

    Grammie

    This is why he never 'loses' an argument....because he says he doesn't!

    Posted by: Mike at May 14, 2007 4:12 PM
    I was just stating the obvious.

    Spew #1. The left wing doesnt hate soldiers, just the men that send our soldiers into "certain death" for a worthless war.

    Posted by: Nick at May 14, 2007 12:24 AM


    Spew/backpedal#2. Maybe not "certain death," but thats certainly about 3398 more deaths than were necessary. Bush should be hung for each of them.

    Posted by: Nick at May 14, 2007 1:48 PM

    mickey interjects w/spew #3. Nick, you are being kind enough to leave out the US civilian 'contractor' deaths, which are never included in the 'official' tally. The last I heard, that number was over 650.

    Posted by: Mike at May 14, 2007 1:54 PM


    Interject/lie #4. As was already explained to you Jeff, Nick "never wrote" what you accused him of writing. Only a simpleton such as yourself would have taken two words out of context, and then read what you did into his post.

    Spin/lie/backpedal #5. Many now being sent over there are facing "certain death"....Nick knows it, and I know it.....even YOU know it, as mentally challenged as you are.

    Posted by: Mike at May 14, 2007 2:36 PM

    I want to know, who taught you how to 'debate' mickey, you obviously failed the class as proven on almost every thread.

    Jeff, i take it thats your name. Yeah, okay, so certain death isnt the case in Iraq, but that wasnt the point, you dolt. The point was that this site is slanderous and just wrong. Olbermann never said anything about hating the troops. He is referring to the incompetant leaders that have run our country into the ground. The point was that there have been over 4000 deaths too many, 4000 unjustifiable completely preventable deaths. Defend that, asshole.

    and whats with this spew shit? Im not spewing anything, the point of my arugment, and the facts in my argument are verifiable, right, and convincing. This war is lost, and you're an idiot that is clinging onto two words that dont even contribute that much to the overall argument.

    Spinning is bad, right? What would you call clinging onto two words of an argument and leaving the rest of the argument untouched and challenged, ill call that a spin move, you're almost as good as Barry Sanders.

    Nick, in my opinion, it was never necessary to defend or concede the "certain death" point, which was nothing more than hair splitting by a 'dolt'...as you noted.

    The FACT is that many are being sent to their "certain death". The word parsing 'point' that EVERY individual soldier is not facing "certain death" evaded your point in yet another of Jeff's attempts to derail a sound argument by playing on words.

    Jeff doesn't debate....doesn't know how....and never will.

    He does however, manage to inject himself in almost EVERY discussion on this board...something no one else even comes close to doing.

    Yes, there were no WMD's. Yes, we should never have gone into Iraq. Yes, the strategy was flawed. Yes, the war is being mismanaged. Yes, the war is probably lost. Yes, we have lost 4,000 Americans, or more and expended billions of dollars for a cause that was never prudent, just or meaningful. Yes, we have run up the deficit to unprecedented highs. Yes, we give our returning veterans substandard care. All that being said, you have to also admit that GWB is a great war president. Support the troops by supporting the president and the war. It is all very logical. To the Trite Troika, at least.

    Nick, if you can only make your point based on such a hyperbolic lying foundation how do you expect anyone other than your sycophants to take you seriously. I quote you:

    "that send our soldiers into certain death for a worthless war.
    Posted by: Nick at May 14, 2007 12:24 AM"

    Now, if you had used 'certain casualty' based on the stats that John Kerry's 'three purple hearts in three months service would extrapolate to' you would have had at least a tiny stunted toe to stand on.

    Of course if you based your hatred on 'certain casualty if we extrapolated etc' it sure wouldn't have the same ring or phony emotional impact.

    Grammie

    Yes, Nick, please no "phony emotional impact". We can tolerate no emotion lest we be less resolute in sending our young and not so young men and women to face the dangers in Iraq. It is best we all act as GWB and his Republican stalwarts: all of these men and women are expendable, mere numbers, if you will. Complete detachment, please.

    Yes Nick...no emotion please! Especially when discussing the war with Janet.

    Janet very much hates to be characterized as lacking humanity regarding Bush's war, which she supports wholeheartedly.

    So you see Nick...we must be very sensitive to Janet's extreme emotional reaction if you question her 'humanity' because she refuses to see this war in human terms...so whatever you do, be sure to avoid making that mistake.

    Ya know, i was thinking the same thing as you two. Emotion is necessary. Lack of emotion is the same reason we're in the corporate messes we are now, ya know, all the jobs that we're losing to outsourcing cheap labor over seas. To the execs those losing thier jobs here are mere numbers, but the reality that they base thier decisions on come in the impact to thier bank account. Who needs humanity, humanity just gets in the way of rational decision. My bad. I apologize Janet, please do not allow me to get in the way of your de-humanistic view.

    and janet. I didnt "base" my argument on that. I "base[d]" my argument on the fact that we have a delusional idiot in the whitehouse that is ruining our country. This beautiful country that our forefathers fought for, I dont think that Mr. Jefferson or Mr. Washingtong (the real George) would appreciate the state that our country has come to.

    Oh, my! We have three (3) people in a row disagreeing with a member of the Trite Troika. rk, a/k/a Jeff, et al, will decide we are one and the same person commiting same felonious fraud and whine, moan and tear at his sack cloth before he runs and hides under the bed. This will likely be our swan song.

    Based on the flurry of support from your sycophants I was right.

    Let me try one of my own. Everyone who worked in the WTC on 9/11 were sent to certain death by their corporate masters.

    Has a nice ring, don't you think? I bet you could even find a group who would ooh and awe and drool over my insight.

    Grammie

    If we had ever tried and succeeded in capturing Osama Bin Laden, I think there is a good possibility a jury would have found him responsible. We'll never know since the Administration bungled the capture despite all the "Wanted Dead or Alive," bravado of GWB. Blaming the corporate masters is a bit too remote in the chain of liability. It is too silly a proposition to provoke an emotional response of any meaning or depth. I'd say give another example, but you seem emotionless in these matters.

    Nick, in my opinion, it was never necessary to defend or concede the "certain death" point, which was nothing more than hair splitting by a 'dolt'...as you noted.
    Posted by: Mike at May 14, 2007 8:11 PM

    LOL! When mickey gets his ass handed to him, he goes with the 'hair splitting' copout. LMAO!

    Jeff you really ARE such an idiot!

    Why don't you go back and argue Nick's point, instead of playing on two silly words taken in the wrong context...thats all you EVER do. I stand by everything I have said, and you have refuted absolutely nothing.

    I KNOW why you won't address the REAL argument....because you CAN'T!

    You have NEVER 'handed' anybody "their ass", much less me.

    Day 6 and not a peep from the ever so faithful olbyloons.

    Haha, Jeff is still psting and hasnt even once addressed the point in my argument. I guess victory is ours. *Jeff waves white flag* Jesus. And for grammie. Thats an entirely unfair statement. Two entirely different circumstances. The victims of 9/11 were innocent law abiding people who were just trying to work and were brutally attacked by a group of people who obviously have it out for us. The 4000 soldiers that have been sent to thier death by Bush were done so on lies, more lies, and then some lies. OH yeah, cant forget about the oil profits.

    Why do you neocon girls have a problem with what Olbermann stated? Many of our soldiers are overzealous...some are insane. I know that neocons don't think that rapists and murderers should be tried; however, we law and order democrats do...

    Why do you neocon girls have a problem with what Olbermann stated? Many of our soldiers are overzealous...some are insane. I know that neocons don't think that rapists and murderers should be tried; however, we law and order democrats do...

    Posted by: blindrat at May 17, 2007 10:18 AM
    If I was president, you would be on the first plane to Iraq or Iran. You are why people hate liberals. Liberalsim is a mental disorder and you are beyond help. Don't let that bong out of reach. Besides your welfare check every month, what's keeping you here?

    rk,

    You are funny, son. First you ignore the fact that many of our soldiers have committed crimes; then, you pretend that I am on welfare. Hey, I've got an idea. Show me a state that gives welfare checks to men.

    I work for the military, Sally; and, have for most of my professional career...

    You are lying through your tooth.

    Are you the one that threw grenades at our own troops? That would be right up your alley. If you work for the military, you need to be investigated. You are not to be trusted.

    assrat, you and Watada would make good cellies.

    rk,

    We are investigated, son. It's called a "security clearance"...

    And, the soldier who lobbed are grenade at his fellow soldiers is a good example of my point, child. I reckon that you think his actions were mentally healthy...

    He was muslim, assrat. As you probably are.

    rk,

    He was a U.S. soldier. He was insane. This proves my and Olbermann's point, son...

    Sorry if that is above your head, child.

    assrat, were you aware he was muslim?

    So, the fact he was muslim, doesn't matter to you. I get it. That explains a lot.

    rk,

    Yeah.

    So what, son?

    I'm pretty sure that 'soldier' was deemed sane to stand trial. You and Ulbermahn are wrong.

    Let me get this down for the record. You, assrat, think that the fact that 'soldier' was a muslim doesn't have any bearing on his actions?

    No murderer is sane, son. The process of declaring someone insane has been disabled over the past few decades...

    Now you think that lobbing a grenade into a crowd is sane. Are you sure you aren't just being sarcastic, child?

    assrat, you are not worth one more minute of my time. I hope you are being watched very closely, you are the enemy within, to say the least.

    >>assrat, you are not worth one more minute of my time. I hope you are being watched very closely, you are the enemy within, to say the least.

    Translation: "You're right and I have nothing to say"

    I think something needs repeating, before troo many people actually come to believe that Olbermann actually said something he didn't say....a common occurence on this site.

    Olbermann DID NOT call the troops "mentally ill".

    No, but PTSD is a mental illness...

    How many is 'troo' many people?lol

    Royalking enters the debate with one of her incisive comments after wetting her pants and running away...

    Let me get this down for the record. You, assrat, think that the fact that 'soldier' was a muslim doesn't have any bearing on his actions?

    Who ran away? That would be you, baldrat.

    "there are a total of 3398 U.S. troop deaths with a full count of 3761 when you include our allies. how many died in 9/11, the "reason" we invaded over there."

    I have a question for those posting the number of troops killed in Iraq and especially for those who relate it to 9/11

    Is there some number of deaths that IS acceptable to you?

    rk,

    Was the fact that a soldier was a Christian relevant to the fact that he conspired to rape a woman and kill herself and her family?

    baldrat, it took you a half hour to come up with that? Talk about running away. Wow. A question with a question, olbyloon debating.

    rk,

    It took you twenty eight minutes to come up with that non-answer, son? You truly are a lightweight, child...

    Your response to my question will provide insight into your own bigotry, son...

    Let me get this down for the record. You, assrat, think that the fact that 'soldier' was a muslim doesn't have any bearing on his actions?

    Posted by: royalking at May 17, 2007 11:15 AM
    This is what I asked you an hour ago, or more. You ran from it. End of story, coward.

    My answer is "no", son...

    When there are eighteen thousand muslims in the army and one goes berserk, I don't see a correlation...

    Take a statistics course, boy. If you've made it through algebra by now...

    Paranoid Zealot Bovine rants:

    --- Let me get this down for the record. You, assrat, think that the fact that 'soldier' was a muslim doesn't have any bearing on his actions?
    Posted by: royalking at May 17, 2007 11:15 AM
    ---

    Sure thing, Bovine.
    Let's start rounding' up them muslims in the military, first.
    Next, the LBRULS and DemonRats.
    Just in case, let's include the chinese.

    That should send a message to ANY (R) who dares to *even* think disrespectin Dear Moron in Chief!

    Oh! I almost forgot The LBRUL MEDIA!!


    assrat, there is more than one case of muslims turning on our own in the service. Defend them all you want, you are exposed. If you think that the fact that muslim soldier that threw the grenade in the officers tent had nothing to do with the fact he was muslim, exposes you even more as a dumbass traitor.

    rk,

    I'm overwhelmed by all of the examples that you've provided, son...

    Bwwwwovine is on the phone right now:

    Urging his Bovine friends to write their congressmen demanding the round up and transfer to Gitmo of any muslim in the US military.

    YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!! LBRULS!!

    Maybe there should be a general round up of all Muslems in the US, just to be on the safe side....huh Jeff?

    Here you go assrat, some of your muslim buddies hard at work! Spin this off your prayer rug.

    The Latest US Muslim Soldier to turn Against US
    Hassan Abujihaad, 31, was arrested today (Mar 7) in Phoenix on federal charges of terrorism and espionage. The former U.S. Navy sailor went by the name Paul Hall. The federal complaint alleges that he gave classified information about Navy battle group movements to a London-based group that supported Islamic terrorists including Al-Qaeda. The Navy battle group was engaged in anti-terror operations.

    Federal prosecutors say Abujihaad was stationed on the U.S.S. Benfold in the Middle East which was one of the ships that’s movement was revealed.

    Emails by Abujihaad allegedly praised Osama bin Laden and the 2000 attack on the U.S.S. Cole and said such tactics were working and taking their toll.

    What the article doesn't say is that Abujihaad is the eighth Muslim in the US Armed Forces to turn against his country in favor of jihad. All this in just the last three years.

    The value of rk/Jeff in the institution is that he/she/it/they make(s) all the other inmates appear sane and well. No one else in Happy Meadow Mansions argues for ethnic cleansing. Besides, his/her/its/their baskets all have a tighter weave than those of the other psychotics.

    anonyloon, the truth hurts, doesn't it.

    No Robert, there is NO number of deaths that is acceptable. However, we can now stop the deaths in Iraq. Hell, we coulda stopped the deaths on 9/11, but its too bad we had President Shit-For-Brains in office. And jeff, you're an idiot, Did you forget about our conversation? I think its been 3 days now since you responded to that one. Hes running, Spinning, Another spin move and yes! He made it, hes still living in his life of denial and ignorance. Dumbass.

    nickeypoo, I ran from or spun nothing. You, on the other hand, ran full speed from your "certain death" theory when I pointed out how asinine your comment was.

    Heeeeeeee's gooooooone! Gonzo next! The truth hurts, doesn't it, jk/Jeff?

    anonyloon, speak English, please.

    Robert asks: "Is there some number of deaths that IS acceptable to you"

    Actually, there isn't...as long as an unnecessary elective war is based on false premises, as this one was, and continuation promises to yield the identical ultimate outcome.

    Also, when you include the contractor's, which we SHOULD be doing, the number is more like 4300 - 4500....American and 'Allies'.

    Wolfie, Jeff. Wolfie is gone. Not reported on FOX, I guess.

    Gonzo is tanking now. Is that not on FOX, either?

    How's the Surge going? 100% success, I assume, on FOX.

    mickey, why do you far leftists blame us and not the radical muslims who actually killed them? Do you understand how backwards your thought process is?

    WASHINGTON - Embattled World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz will resign at the end of June, he and the bank said late Thursday, ending his long fight to survive pressure for his ouster over the generous compensation he arranged for his girlfriend.

    Wow, the Bushies (and ex-bushies alike) sure aren't very good at anything they try whether it's invading and occupying a country or running the World Bank.

    What do you 'spose old Rummy is sucking at these days?

    I think he might be rk/Jeff's roomate. I never thought I'd feel sorry for Rummy.

    Do you suppose they charge rk/Jeff double?

    Bolton is ready to take over the World Bank. Liberal hypocrisy= Impeaching BJ Clinton was very bad. Wolfowitz steps down voluntarily for much less and the libs rejoice!

    Bolton is ready to take over the World Bank.
    ---
    Surest way I know to forfeit the right to pick the bank's president, but certainly not beyond the spoiled brat President we have.

    Gonzo might be a better choice. He has to know more about banking than law.

    Clinton left office at around 60%. Bush is heading toward a long overdue departure at 28%. So, 30% of the American people are correct, and 60% dead wrong?

    anonyloon, educate yourself, then come back. It's our right to pick the World Bank leader. Bush didn't make the rule as much as you would like to think so or you read on puffington or media matters or moveoff.

    "Wolfowitz steps down voluntarily for much less and the libs rejoice!"

    He didn't exactly go without a fight, did he....its been pretty obvious he was going or the last 2 weeks.

    I personally am far more disgusted with the man for his role in getting us in Iraq...and I have to admit my bias in that regard.

    It's hard for me to imagine how someone like Wolfowitz can even sleep at night after his not so small role in pushing this ill fated invasion that has cost us so much, has gained us nothing, and was done with little or no justification.

    anonyloon, educate yourself, then come back. It's our right to pick the World Bank leader. Bush didn't make the rule as much as you would like to think so or you read on puffington or media matters or moveoff.

    ---

    No, nitwit, it is not our right. The Europeans have afforded us that privilege. The Board picks the president. And, Bush's obstinance almost set them on a different course. Your and Bush: ALWAYS wrong!

    Jeff again: "mickey do you far leftists blame us and not the radical Muslems who actually killed them?"

    We far leftists (and many conservatives as well), blame out idiotic leaders for unneccessarily putting them in harm's way in the first place. I guess such a concept is just a little too hard for you to grasp?

    And Jeff adds: "Do you understand how backwards your thought process is?"

    No, but I understand how simplistic what little "thought process" you have is.

    "mickey do you far leftists blame us and not the radical Muslems who actually killed them?"

    Well us is plural. I don't about anyone else,but i do blame you. I mean, why not blame the moron.

    "mickey do you far leftists blame us and not the radical Muslems who actually killed them?"

    Well us is plural. I don't know about anyone else, but I do blame you. I mean, why not blame the moron.

    Well us is plural. I don't about anyone else,but i do blame you. I mean, why not blame the moron.

    Posted by: craigs at May 18, 2007 12:01 AM
    olbyloon logic and tactics, avoid the tough questions, make childish remarks. Classic, craigy.

    "olbyloon logic and tactics, avoid the tough questions, make childish remarks. Classic, craigy"

    Well olbyloon logic is better than no logic.

    It's our right to pick the World Bank leader.
    Posted by: royalking at May 17, 2007 9:00 PM

    The Europeans have afforded us that privilege.
    Posted by: at May 17, 2007 9:41 PM

    Is this an olbyloons/anonyloons interpretation of "wrong?" lol

    Is this an olbyloons/anonyloons interpretation of "wrong?" lol

    Is there a point in the future?

    you were debunked is the point, craigy.

    "you were debunked is the point, craigy."

    The only thing i asserted is that you are a moron. That has certainly not been debunked.

    craigy-12:23-debunked. Get used to it.

    "craigy-12:23-debunked. Get used to it."

    It is really funny how the ones on this board who actually ARE capable of 'debunking' someone else.....never feel like they have to announce it when they do it.....LOL!

    If you've never done it, how can you announce it? When all you do is make half assed attempts to defend the defenseless (Ulbermahn) with no facts, ever, it's virtuously impossible to 'debunk' anything. That post above was meant for the anonyloon, not craigy. craigy was just interjecting. Since he's a loon, it must be ok, right?

    It's our right to pick the World Bank leader.
    Posted by: royalking at May 17, 2007 9:00 PM

    "The 24 executive directors of the World Bank, who are appointed or elected by member countries, choose the bank president. The bank president is traditionally an American selected by the United States. A European is selected to head the International Monetary Fund, the other major international financial institution. However, neither the bank nor the IMF have formal selection rules dictating the nationality of the institutions’ heads..."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40172-2005Mar16.html

    Ergo: You are wrong, son...

    Blindrat, you are making the same mistake a lot of us have made...and one I keep on making myself.

    Arguing with Jeff is pointless. Facts mean absolutely nothing to Jeff. If Jeff can find one tiny kernel of truth in an otherwise false premise, he will harp on that little kernel as if it somehow vindicates his entire argument.

    If Jeff can't find that one tiny morsel of truth, then he will just go on to the next argument as if nothing has happened....all the while accusing the OTHER party of "evading, running away, being debunked", etc., etc.

    Jeff repeatedly spikes the ball in the end zone claiming 'victory' even though he has just been completely humiliated. The only thing I can't figure out is whether Jeff actually believes he has 'won', or not.

    The worst thing any of us could do to Jeff is to ignor him....something my wife keeps telling me to do.

    assrat, hope you didn't waste much time on that, you are grasping at very short straws, too say the least. They afforded us the right to pick Wolfowitz and now Bolton. Just because it's it's not "formal" means nothing. Ergo, I'm not wrong. You better stick to defending the terrorists.

    "craigy-12:23-debunked. Get used to it."

    Uhh, no, I made no comment on the matter, other than you are a moron. Which again you did not debunk... get used to it.

    rk,

    Look up the word "right" in the dictionary, son. Actually, the officers of the world bank have the RIGHT to choose whoever they want.

    Mike,

    Thanks. But, I already know that rk is an imbecile. I chose to refute him because I know that a lot of other imbeciles offer the same bs...

    "assrat, hope you didn't waste much time on that, you are grasping at very short straws, too say the least. They afforded us the right to pick Wolfowitz and now Bolton. Just because it's it's not "formal" means nothing. Ergo, I'm not wrong. You better stick to defending the terrorists."


    You would think being wrong over and over (or debunked if you will) would make you feel foolish.

    That's your convoluted opinion, craigy. You guys keep trying, maybe someday. Pretty sad to be proven wrong by an "imbecile.' Splitting hairs (as mickey like to say) in the process.

    Anyone remember when Jeff was saying everyone in Gitmo was caught red-handed on the battlefield with weapons and / or bombs in hand.

    Then, after being flooded with facts contrary to his assertion, he changed the subject.

    Classic Jeff: Lie, Distort, Divert, then forget it ever happened.

    Most people would consider having a bad memory a handicap, but with Jeff, it's the only way he can make it through the day...

    "Flooded" with "facts?" One far left wing article is considered flooded? You guys are getting really desperate, keep trying and I'll keep laughing!

    Jeff, I have officially decided. You are an idiot. Muslims killed our troops, yeah, but why the FUCK are they over there to begin with? Those deaths are on George Bush's hands. He sent them into battle. And yes, I said it wasnt certain death, but you still havent rebutted against ANYTHING substantial in my argument. I think the definition of a spin would be to take two words out of a full comprehensive argument, make a small, shitty case against that, then call it a win. You are the reason I hate conservaties.

    Claiming the soldiers were sent to "certain death," which you were wrong about, isn't substantial? Only on olbyplanet.

    The soldiers certainly arent put in the safest of conditions. Not certain death, but very negligent conditions. Ya know, like not having decent hospitals (See Walter Reed), or not enough armor (Humvees), or not getting enough time between tours of duty (Dubya). And ya know, because of that godforsaken war we're not even as protected around here (see Greensburg, KS). The certain death wasnt a key point in my argument. I didnt even realized id written it till you pointed it out. Certain death or not, I think we could do a little better than this. Dont ya think?

    I have read and heard soldiers say they don't like riding in hummers because they are marked targets. They prefer to ride around in beat up jallopies or 4-Runners to blend in with the normal population. The whole hummer thing is a media hype/ liberal talking point. Walter Reed is one of many hospitals, no mention of the good ones, except on Fox. Not saying I condone the conditions at WR, but, it is being fixed. As far as not being safe, thank the border issues, which just got worse if that was possible.

    "That's your convoluted opinion, craigy. You guys keep trying, maybe someday. Pretty sad to be proven wrong by an "imbecile.' Splitting hairs (as mickey like to say) in the process."

    You are amusing I'll give you that. I love the bit where you claim to prove someone wrong, then when they demand actual proof, you accuse them of splitting hairs. Well, I'm guilty of splitting hairs then.

    The border issues? You're worried about a bunch of mexicans killing you? You really are a one minded simpleton. And yeah, Hummers are marked targets, but sometimes you really need protection from BULLETS, and I dont see the soldiers wanting to ride in normal cars in those circumstances. And yeah, other good hospitals, but what about the fact that before it was privatized 5 years ago it was one of the best hosptials in the country. Guess who allowed it to be privatized and run into the ground. Your fearless leader, Dubya. WIth that said, you've impressed me, I didnt think you were capable of coming up with a coherent argument.

    single-minded* haha

    And Dude, I just saw what you said about Bill Clinton. Time for impeachment talk! Bill Clinton got impeached and everyone got pissed for him getting a Blowjob. Was it because you all were jealous that you're presidents never got blowjobs? Or none of you had? I dont know, but you got pissed about it. And now (p)Resident Bush(i refuse to actually refer to him as president) has fearlessly and horribly lead us into this "war". Who are we fighting? Al Queda doesnt have an army. But we decided to use ours on someone. I consider him a villain worse than Sadaam. At least he was honest about his antics.

    The border issues? You're worried about a bunch of mexicans killing you? Posted by: Nick at May 18, 2007 5:07 PM

    'Dude,' mexicans are the least of my worries, although 1/3 of them coming across have criminal records, i.e. baby rapers, murderers, thieves. The terrorists know it is a weak point and there have been countless apprehended coming across the southern border. Who knows how many have made it through successfully. One more thing, Borders, Language and Culture, dude.....

    I like how you just skipped my entire thing about impeachment. Real cool. Criminal records could mean ANYTHING. they could have been found with weed, which we all know is the least of our worries, but still remains illegal for some reason. And the terrorists...maybe we should stop doing things that make us the most hated country in the world. Its really amazing that we went through 9/11 and got the entire worlds sympathy then within two years of it we were hated just as much as we were before. Really says something doesnt it?

    More evidence that our government is currently being run by some of the dumbest people in the history of politics (and that's saying something!)

    http://www.salon.com/news/primary_sources/2007/05/18/cpa_documents/

    nicky, I like how you skipped my entire thing about terrorists coming through mexico, real cool. As far as your impeachment theory, it ain't happening, no crimes have been committed. If there had been a crime committed, believe me, waxman and his henchmen would be all over it.

    Nick, this statement by you @ #;39 PM is the most flagrant example of CYA crawfishing I have seen in a long time.

    "And yes, I said it wasnt certain death,"

    Let me copy your earlier statement for your edification.

    "The left wing doesnt hate soldiers, just the men that send our soldiers into CERTAIN DEATH for a worthless war.
    Posted by: Nick at May 14, 2007 12:24 AM"

    There has been post after post by you and your sycophants, no for variety lets use fellow travelers, unequivocally asserting that just two little words (that only make the difference between 3,400 deaths and 200,000+ deaths) is irrelevant.

    What is one to surmise from this? Oh, sorry I asked. I just didn't realize that I knew the answer all along.

    You think and speak in nursery rhyme, as illustrated by Humpty Dumpty:

    "When I use a word it means just WHAT I CHOOSE it to mean.

    Grammie

    Janet, nicky accused me of 'cherry picking' words and taking them out of 'context.' Then, wouldn't you know it, mike jumped in and defended him tooth and nail! No surprise, there. To nick's credit (kind of) he said he didn't 'realize' he said 'certain death' until I pointed it out/'cherry picked' it....

    RK, this is not surprising for KO sycophants.

    I can almost see them toasting their long necks while reassuring each other that "Hey, whats a few hundred thousand more or less dead in defending KO and sticking it to the eviiiiiiil Bush.

    Grammie

    Good work!

    Ill bet money that both of you call yourselves christians. And you neglected to mention a part of what i said about that. I didnt even REALIZE id said it until he mentioned it. If you took those two fucking words out the argument for what I said would be just as strong. Why dont you re-fucking-fute that? huh, because you dont have any comebacks. Bush has commited a crime. He kept the NSA Wiretapping program going without the Justice Departments stamp saying it was legal, actually they said quite the opposite. Your decider-in-chief is going down, so his little side kick Mr. Shot-My-Friend-In-The-Face. And as for terrorists coming out of Mexico, ill take my chances, and I know for a fact that building a border fence wont make me feel any safer. It'll actually make me feel much worse, we were founded as a country with open borders. A country of immigrants. Now, your turn, try to refute all my points that you skipped. Jackass

    Also, Id like a source on that "there have been countless apprehended coming across the southern border." thing. If you'd be so kind.

    Good site!

    12 hours gone and no response. Usually RK or one of his faithful allies would have come to his defense by now...

    Also, Id like a source on that "there have been countless apprehended coming across the southern border." thing. If you'd be so kind.

    Posted by: Nick at May 19, 2007 3:19 AM


    Border Patrol spokesperson Rene Noriega stated that the number of other-than-Mexican detentions has grown by 42 percent. Most of the non-Mexican migrants are from El Salvador and other parts of Central America, she said, but added that agents have picked up people from all over the world, including the former Soviet Union, Asia and the Middle East.

    Pick-up truck load of mixed-nationality illegals destined for Tucson or Phoenix, Ariz. Once in those cities, an organized pipeline disburses them across America. The "trucking" is generally handled by street gangs. Photo by Donald Barnett, Bisbee, Ariz.

    Arabs have been reported crossing the Arizona border for an unknown period. Border rancher George Morgan encounters thousands of illegals crossing his ranch on a well-used trail. He relates a holiday event: "It was Thanksgiving 1998, and I stepped outside my house and there were over a hundred 'crossers' in my yard. Damnedest bunch of illegals I ever saw. All of them were wearing black pants, white shirts and string ties. Maybe they were hoping to blend in," he chuckled. "They took off, I called the Border Patrol, and a while later, an agent, Dan Green, let me know that they had caught them. He said that they were all Iranians."


    42% doesnt mean anything, I want a real number. 2 to 5 is a 40-ish% increase. And the case that you cited was in 1998, 9 years ago. Can you come up with something a bit more recent. A bit more relative to the here and now. With that said, thanks for actually coming up with something concrete, that was a nice change. Now try the rest of the stuff, like how about how you said "As far as your impeachment theory, it ain't happening, no crimes have been committed".

    Some more good news, nicky.


    According to captured al-Qaida leaders and documents, the plan is called the "American Hiroshima" and involves the multiple detonation of nuclear weapons already smuggled into the U.S. over the Mexican border with the help of the MS-13 street gang and other organized crime groups.


    Al-Qaida has obtained at least 40 nuclear weapons from the former Soviet Union – including suitcase nukes, nuclear mines, artillery shells and even some missile warheads. In addition, documents captured in Afghanistan show al-Qaida had plans to assemble its own nuclear weapons with fissile material it purchased on the black market.

    In addition to detonating its own nuclear weapons already planted in the U.S., military sources also say there is evidence to suggest al-Qaida is paying former Russian special forces Spetznaz to assist the terrorist group in locating nuclear weapons formerly concealed inside the U.S. by the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Osama bin Laden's group is also paying nuclear scientists from Russia and Pakistan to maintain its existing nuclear arsenal and assemble additional weapons with the materials it has invested hundreds of millions in procuring over a period of 10 years.

    The plans for the devastating nuclear attack on the U.S. have been under development for more than a decade. It is designed as a final deadly blow of defeat to the U.S., which is seen by al-Qaida and its allies as "the Great Satan."

    At least half the nuclear weapons in the al-Qaida arsenal were obtained for cash from the Chechen terrorist allies.

    But the most disturbing news is that high level U.S. officials now believe at least some of those weapons have been smuggled into the U.S. for use in the near future in major cities as part of this "American Hiroshima" plan, according to an upcoming book, "The Al Qaeda Connection: International Terrorism, Organized Crime and the Coming Apocalypse," by Paul L. Williams, a former FBI consultant.

    According to Williams, former CIA Director George Tenet informed President Bush one month after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that at least two suitcase nukes had reached al-Qaida operatives in the U.S.

    "Each suitcase weighed between 50 and 80 kilograms (approximately 110 to 176 pounds) and contained enough fissionable plutonium and uranium to produce an explosive yield in excess of two kilotons," wrote Williams. "One suitcase bore the serial number 9999 and the Russian manufacturing date of 1988. The design of the weapons, Tenet told the president, is simple. The plutonium and uranium are kept in separate compartments that are linked to a triggering mechanism that can be activated by a clock or a call from the cell phone."

    According to the author, the news sent Bush "through the roof," prompting him to order his national security team to give nuclear terrorism priority over every other threat to America.


    Instead of getting the hell out of that region so we don't continue to inflame a billion Arabs, the Bush Administration is , of course, taking the opposite approach !

    WASHINGTON — The new U.S. Embassy in Baghdad will be the world's largest and most expensive foreign mission, though it may not be large enough or secure enough to cope with the chaos in Iraq.

    The Bush administration designed the 104-acre compound _ set to open in September in what today is a war zone _ to be an ultra-secure enclave. Yet it also hoped that downtown Baghdad would cease being a battleground when diplomats moved in.

    Over the long term, depending on which way the seesaw of sectarian division and grinding warfare teeters, the massive city-within-a-city could prove too enormous for the job of managing diminished U.S. interests in Iraq.

    The $592 million embassy occupies a chunk of prime real estate two-thirds the size of Washington's National Mall, with desk space for about 1,000 people behind high, blast-resistant walls. The compound is a symbol both of how much the United States has invested in Iraq and how the circumstances of its involvement are changing.

    The embassy is one of the few major projects the administration has undertaken in Iraq that is on schedule and within budget. Still, not all has gone according to plan.

    The 21-building complex on the Tigris River was envisioned three years ago partly as a headquarters for the democratic expansion in the Middle East that President Bush identified as the organizing principle for foreign policy in his second term.

    The complex quickly could become a white elephant if the U.S. scales back its presence and ambitions in Iraq. Although the U.S. probably will have forces in Iraq for years to come, it is not clear how much of the traditional work of diplomacy can proceed amid the violence and what the future holds for Iraq's government.

    "What you have is a situation in which they are building an embassy without really thinking about what its functions are," said Edward Peck, a former top U.S. diplomat in Iraq.

    "What kind of embassy is it when everybody lives inside and it's blast-proof, and people are running around with helmets and crouching behind sandbags?"

    The compound will have secure apartments for about 615 people. The comfortable but not opulent one-bedrooms have offered hope for State Department staff now doubled up in tinny trailers.

    Morale is at an ebb among the embassy staff, most of whom rarely leave the heavily fortified Green Zone during their one-year tours in Iraq. The barricaded zone houses both the current, makeshift U.S. Embassy and the new compound about a mile away. A recent string of mortar attacks has meant further restrictions.

    On Saturday, three mortar shells or rockets slammed into a Green Zone compound where British Prime Minister Tony Blair was meeting with Iraqi leaders. The attack wounded one person. One round hit the British Embassy compound.

    The new U.S. ambassador, Ryan Crocker, is reviewing staffing and housing needs, and fielding complaints about any suggestion employees either double up again or live elsewhere.

    "We do believe that the embassy compound was right-sized at the time that it was presented to the Congress," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told a Senate panel this month. "There have been some additional issues since that time. "

    Rice's senior adviser on Iraq, David Satterfield, said the embassy is not disproportionately expensive and will serve U.S. interests for years. The second-most expensive embassy is the smaller $434 million U.S. mission being built in Beijing.

    "We assume there will be a significant, enduring U.S. presence in Iraq," Satterfield said.

    The Baghdad Embassy will open in September and be fully staffed by the end of the year, Satterfield said. U.S. diplomats will move from a dogeared Saddam Hussein-era palace they have occupied since shortly after the 2003 invasion, to the growing irritation of many Iraqis.

    The International Crisis Group, a nongovernmental organization that seeks to prevent and resolve conflicts, has identified the complex as the world's largest embassy. The organization notes that the embassy is a sore point with Iraqis who are fed up with war, violence and roadblocks and chafing under the perception the U.S. still calls the shots more than four years after Saddam's ouster.

    The embassy also is a prime target.

    The area around the construction site was hit with mortar fire this month. Other areas of the U.S.-controlled Green Zone were hit on consecutive days last week.

    The increase in mortar and rocket attacks on the Green Zone has raised concern, especially because they are occurring during a U.S.-led security crackdown in Baghdad.

    The embassy has ordered its staff to wear flak jackets and helmets while outdoors or in unprotected buildings. The order was issued one day after a rocket attack killed four Asian contractors in the Green Zone this month.

    It is unclear who is responsible for the recent attacks. Some barrages came from Shiite-dominated areas in eastern Baghdad. But the Green Zone also is within range of Sunni militant strongholds to the south.

    The State Department and Congress have tussled this year over a $50 million request for additional blast-resistant housing. The department says it did not anticipate needing so many fortified apartments when the embassy was in the planning stages three years ago and Iraq was a less violent place.

    The new Democratic-controlled Congress has grumbled about the approximately $1 billion annual cost of embassy operations in Iraq and told the administration the embassy is overstaffed at roughly 1,000 regular employees. Add security contractors, locally hired staff and others and the number climbs to more than 4,000.

    "This is another case where poor planning, skyrocketing costs and security concerns are colliding in the Bush administration's policies in Iraq, and we need to make adjustments," said Sen. Patrick Leahy, chairman of the Senate panel that pays for State Department operations.

    "They want hundreds of additional embassy staff who they cannot safely house within the new embassy compound. It's time for a reality check," said Leahy, D-Vt.

    MORE REPUBLICAN PERVERTS :

    Ex-lawmaker charged with rape

    Klaudt accused of sexual contact with foster kids, pages
    By Terry Woster
    twoster@midco.net
    Published: May 19, 2007

    PIERRE - Former Republican Rep. Ted Klaudt could spend the rest of his life in prison after turning himself in to authorities Friday on felony charges that include eight counts of rape involving foster children and former legislative pages.

    Five girls told authorities they were assaulted by Klaudt, court documents state, although charges filed Friday involve only two of the girls.

    Four of the girls said they were accosted in Klaudt's hotel room in Pierre, where he stayed while serving in the South Dakota Legislature. Two of the girls were legislative pages when they were attacked, they told investigators.

    He's accused of performing "ovary checks" and "breast exams" under the guise that he was helping young women donate their reproductive eggs, according to court records.

    House Speaker Thomas Deadrick, R-Platte, accompanied Klaudt in court Friday, saying he was acting as Klaudt's lawyer only for Friday's court hearings.

    "I'm here as a friend who happens to be a lawyer," said Deadrick, who served four years with Klaudt in the House.

    Terry Pechota of Rapid City, a lawyer who has represented Klaudt, said he would not be able to comment on the case.

    Additional charges of stalking, witness tampering and sexual contact with a minor were filed Friday. Charges were filed in Hughes County, which includes Pierre, and in Corson County, where Klaudt, 49, lives near the rural community of Walker.

    The Department of Corrections said Friday it is reviewing its foster care program in light of the allegations. The foster children were removed from the Klaudt home Feb. 2 on advice from the Division of Criminal Investigation as its agents investigated possible crimes.

    "I am horrified at the allegations made regarding the abuse of children placed in the DOC Foster Care program," Corrections Secretary Tim Reisch said in a statement.

    Nice site!

    More Republican perverts indeed.
    Just more of Grammie's kind of people !

    RK, if this terror plot was so big, why on earth is not not on MSNBC or CNN. Oh wait, its because they are liberal news outlets. Well, in that case, thy the HELL isnt this story even reported on by Fox News. This shit is right up thier alley, but for some reason they didnt either. No one did. Oh wait, maybe its because the website you got that off also had a "serious" report on how Soy turns Young Boys Gay. (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53327_) theres the website. You must think I'm an idiot. Try again man, this time come up with a credible source. Ya know, one that doesnt report things like "President Bush is not to blame for the rampant immorality of blacks".

    Now seriously, start refuting my points.

    why not thy and their not thier

    42% doesnt mean anything, I want a real number. 2 to 5 is a 40-ish% increase. And the case that you cited was in 1998, 9 years ago.
    Posted by: Nick at May 19, 2007 5:37 PM


    42% means nothing? A 42% increase in non-mexicans coming through mexico means nothing? 100 Iranians coming across at one time means nothing? 9 yrs ago means nothing? What does "mean something" to you?

    The government does know terror groups like Al Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah are active in Latin America. In fact, members of Hezbolla are already inside the U.S., coming in through the Mexican border.

    We're also learning these Middle Easterners are changing their Islamic names to Hispanic names, buying fake documents, learning Spanish and posing as Hispanic immigrants

    During our investigation, we found out a lot of people from suspicious countries are crossing right here in South Texas. Since 9/11, literally hundreds of illegal aliens have been caught here from places like Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt and Pakistan.

    Federal law enforcement estimates only ten to thirty percent of illegals who cross are actually caught.

    Governor Rick Perry says, "To think that international terrorists have not already exploited our border is NAIVE."

    Oh, and Janet. A ways up you said that you wanted an example of the suspension of Habeus Corpus. Before I give my example, id like to say that even if Bush never uses this, its still a disgrace that it has even come into discussion that it should happen. And my example, Jose Padilla. He wasnt even allowed to TALK to a lawyer for 2 years after his detainment. TWO YEARS. It was another year after that that charges were formally brought against him. Then they dropped charges against him in Fall of '06. And then in January, they decided to re-instate the charges. And now hes finally at trial. 5 years after his initial pickup. That is wrong. Oh yeah, not to mention, one of the more damning witnesses wont even give up his real name. So much for the 6th amendment right to confront those who testify against him

    42% doesnt mean anything without a number to start from. I stand by what I said. Give me a real, concrete number. Thanks. Either way, I dont think closing the border would fix the problem. The only way to FIX the problem is to, ya know, become a society that they would not cheer in the streets when we are bombed. Become a society that doesnt make the ENTIRE world hate us. Well, except for Tony Blair, but hes gone because he supported Bush anyways. And also, once against I'm impressed. But all you've done is prove that ONE thing you've said is right. Now seriously, im getting tired of this. Do you have a response for ANYTHING that I said? If not, ill consider this debate mine.

    The number of aliens other than Mexican (“OTMs”) illegally crossing the border has grown at an alarming rate over the past several years. Based on U.S. Border Patrol statistics there were 30,147 OTMs apprehended in FY2003, 44,614 in FY2004, 165,178 in FY2005, and 108,025 in FY2006. Most of them were apprehended along the U.S. Southwest border.

    nick, does 110% increase in 3 yrs "mean something?"

    Hey, buddy. We arent talking Mexicans here. You were saying a 42% increase in Arabic people. Wheres the number on that? Whats the source on those numbers? I'll probably want to be able to cite that stat in future at some point.
    And dude, when are you going to come up with any sort of argument against what I originally said. Im pretty sure you got your ass kicked in this debate

    First, we shouldn't forget that Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri has been held as an enemy combatant for over two years. Unlike Padilla, al-Marri is not a U.S. citizen, but he was arrested in the U.S. and was not bearing arms when he was captured. The constitution's guarantees of a right to due process do not speak of citizens but of "persons".

    Secondly, we should consider the history of the Padilla case. Jose Padilla was long denied the opportunity to meet with his lawyers. Roughly a week before the Supreme Court first agreed to hear his case in 2004, the government allowed him to meet with his lawyers. At the time it said it was "allowing Padilla access to counsel as a matter of discretion and military authority. Such access is not required by domestic or international law and should not be treated as a precedent." This was a carefully determined tactic. By granting Padilla access to a lawyer, the government was trying to prevent the Supreme Court from ruling on whether they had to provide Padilla with a lawyer.

    The Supreme Court decided not to rule on Padilla's case in 2004, sending it back to lower courts to spend over a year working its way back to the top. Now his case has made it back to the Supreme Court. Again, the Supreme Court is about to decide whether to hear his case. And, again, the government has decided that, at its discretion, it will grant Jose Padilla his constitutionally guaranteed rights.

    The strategy is clear. The government will now try to convince the Supreme Court and that Padilla's claims are irrelevant because he's been charged with a crime. By doing so, the government will retain its self-appointed power to lock you up without a lawyer or criminal charges until the Supreme Court rules on your case, which we've seen can take years.


    Nice site!

    Im hella confused. Did you just argue for Padilla?

    And dude, when are you going to come up with any sort of argument against what I originally said. Im pretty sure you got your ass kicked in this debate

    Posted by: Nick at May 20, 2007 2:48 AM
    Got my 'ass kicked' how's that? I've refuted almost every one of your posts, that's getting my 'ass kicked?' Skaking my head......the olbyloons never cease to amaze.

    Nick. The sun rises. The sun sets. Jeff gets his ass kicked and debunked.
    Just another day at OW.

    And the hysterical part of it is that he thinks he's WINNING every argument !

    God, it's good to have a village idiot in our midst.
    Makes this site even more enjoyable than constantly proving them wrong on every issue.

    cluless mickey, interjecting again, just more hypocricy, it never stops. Like the energizer bunny, he just keeps hypocriting, hypocriting, lying, and lying. Is that one of your posts loaded with that "substance" you were bragging about a couple weeks ago? Just curious. Weren't you just defending nicky's "certain death" theory the other day? LMAO!

    Since this war began the number of soldiers in Iraq who think Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11 has stunned us all. We continue to be surprised by the number of troops over there who still think we're winning, convinced we're doing good, and that if America pulls out they will follow us home.

    The military sent to Iraq some of the most educated soldiers in a generation. More have high school degrees than those who served in Vietnam.

    But that doesn't mean they know anything. It's become obvious that the job of the Bush military is to keep our soldiers on a "need to know" state of alert.

    Which is why on Friday the Pentagon announced that soldiers serving in Iraq and Afghanistan would no longer be able to use military computers to access You Tube, My Space and eleven other popular websites.

    Do soldiers deserve the truth? Or does that weaken them as soldiers? Does a well-informed military create a stronger army? Or just deserters? I think a well-informed army creates a civilian leadership that is forced to send them into harm's way based on facts.

    The "facts' are a right winger's nightmare !

    Okay. RoyalKing. Im going to lay out every point I made that you DIDNT refute.

    1. Olbermann did not call our troops insane
    2. Bush is the one that Olbermann was referring to.
    3. The left wing does not hate soldiers
    4. Bush has left our troops without proper armor
    5. Bush has left our troops without proper rest
    6. Bush has comitted a crime and thus should be impeached
    7. Bush should be impeached for his utter lack of competance.
    8. You call yourself a christian but you support this horribly slanderous site. Im pretty sure Jesus would condemn this site in a heartbeat.

    Now, get refuting!
    What an idiot.

    Oh yeah. And i accused you of being better with spin moves than Barry Sanders. And thus far, you've done VERY little to prove me wrong.

    nicky, first it was "war crimes" now it's "lack of competence?" You sure do like back pedalling, don't you?

    What do you call pumping up America to go to war using two main reasons, neither of them found to be true ?
    1 Saddam had WMD
    2. Saddam was working with Al Qaeda

    Now 2700 dead. Tens of thousands maimed.
    and destabilizing the region.
    If that's not war crimes than you can spin ANYTHING !

    Hahahahahah! What an idiot! So, i take that as a you waving a HUGE white flag of defeat. Just like the Republicans in '06. And how it will be again in '08. Oh yeah, I never said war crimes. What a dolt. And thanks 6:54 for laying out the argument. Like I said earlier. I consider Bush worse a criminal than Sadaam. At least Sadaam was honest about his shit.

    nick, you back pedal on your statement and I'm an idiot? Just for future reference, there is a huge difference between "war crimes" and "incompetence." With your last post, you just put yourself in the Rosie O/Cindy Sheehan category. Have fun with that! I suppose you think fire won't melt steel, either.

    HAHA. You're so avoiding all 8 of those charges. You have no rebuttal. All you've done in this argument is nit-pick words. Oh yeah. Dumbshit. I never said anything about war crimes. So. Wheres you're point to all this? You sound like someone on a sinking ship trying to hang on to whatever you can to keep yourself alive. Pathetic.

    You would think that you would have learned something about making shit up from all of King George's examples.

    The left wing doesnt hate soldiers, just the men that send our soldiers into certain death for a worthless war.

    Posted by: Nick at May 14, 2007 12:24 AM

    that not EVERY soldier is condemned to "certain death", but that is NOT at all what Nick said....or even implied.

    Posted by: Mike at May 14, 2007 1:43 PM

    Maybe not certain death, but thats certainly about 3398 more deaths than were necessary. Bush should be hung for each of them.

    Posted by: Nick at May 14, 2007 1:48 PM

    Olbermann DID NOT call the troops "mentally ill".

    Posted by: Mike at May 17, 2007 11:48 AM

    No, but PTSD is a mental illness...

    Posted by: blindrat at May 17, 2007 11:59 AM

    The certain death wasnt a key point in my argument. I didnt even realized id written it till you pointed it out.

    Posted by: Nick at May 18, 2007 4:29 PM

    Jeff, your 3:40 post is another example of your continuing lunacy:'

    What exactly was the point of making that disjointed cut and paste post? It argued nothing, and it made no point whatsoever. Everything there was taken totally out of context, and they were made by three different people for three different reasons.

    As for the quotes that were from me, I will stand by every one of them with no problem.

    So what was your point? Was that an example of you supposedly backing something up with facts?

    You defy logic!

    God. What a retard. Can you even think? Did you get stuck in the politically special classes in high school?

    And man, talk about back peddling! You accused me of something, then after I confronted it, you ignored what you ever said. And although I did endorse the war crimes thing posted above. I never said it was an alternative. Hes still an incompetant bastard who has committed war crimes. Maybe you did take a couple plays outta king George's book. Maybe thats why you're such an incompetant debater.

    Oh yeah. Dumbshit. I never said anything about war crimes.

    Hes still an incompetant bastard who has committed war crimes.

    I consider Bush worse a criminal than Sadaam. At least Sadaam was honest about his shit.

    Posted by: Nick at May 21, 2007 1:42 AM

    The mind of the "cindy's" and "rosies" in the world. Wow.

    Okay, Are you serious? You're the reason that the informed half the population thinks that conservatives are a bunch of dim-witted robots. For one, those came from three different posts. the "Oh yeah, dumbshit, i never said anything about war crimes" came BEFORE the second quote. and the third quote came before the first two. So, you're an idiot. Getting desperate are we? And if you can prove me wrong that Bush is better than Sadaam. Ill take it back. But ill bet money that you cant. What a dipshit. Keep sucking at King Bush's teete. Im sure the lies and corruption tastes great.