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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    May 30, 2007
    Keith Olbermann Interview of Al Gore: Analysis by Gibson

    On his radio program today, John Gibson scrutinized Keith Olbermann's blue dress interview with Al Gore. Gibby's detailed deconstruction of this repellent media spectacle should make him an odds-on favorite for the next round of WPitW nominations. We have the audio for your listening pleasure:


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (74) | | View blog reactions
    user-pic

    74 Comments

    I can't believe no one here is picking up on Scarborough's remark about the interview. He said that they had finished 20 minutes of sweet lovemaking.

    I can't believe no one here is picking up on Scarborough's remark about the interview. He said that they had finished 20 minutes of sweet lovemaking.

    If you've got the clip, I would be happy to post it.

    That's hilarious. I wish I would have seen that. Thanks for the Gibby clip. I enjoyed it thoroughly.

    I wonder if Gibson is still embracing the " correct " religion. He is a fucking hack who belongs on Faux. He is as dumb as a boot... read " fair and Balanced My Ass " by the creators of the wonderful website " SweetjesusIhatebilloreilly.com " Oh look shithead Oreilly is getting ready to do another story about Rosie.. hard hitting news... too bad O'rielly's parents did not live in Kansas ,, maybe Tiller would have made a special appointment.


    Gore spent quite a bit of time slamming the media -- or one particular part of it--- for keeping people happy, dumb, and propagandized. Keith's been making folks WPITW over "blaming the media...


    (It's uncanny how they made Olbermann's voice sound just like Matt Drudge.)

    We at Olbermann Watch thank O'Lielly, documented liar, for his comment.

    Krazy Keith has a stain on his suit
    Like that blue dress where Bill lost his loot
    Keith's jaw is sore
    From fluffing Al Gore
    Edward Murrow of the skin flute

    I suppose I have to disagree with you, JD. I don't think too much of BO's comments. True, Gibson is as dense as my Tante Traudl's stollen by Drei Koenigs' Tag, but I think among FOX personalities, Gibson may well be the least disgusting. True, that is not an high standard. Still, credit where credit is due. Aside from the substance, however, I really don't care for BO's tacky and tasteless style.

    once again Katee sets out
    to rhyme and to chime
    and to leave me no doubt
    she thinks she's a poet
    with quick little quirps
    like snakes outside slither
    and little bird chirps
    she speaks of things clever
    in her mind so she thinks
    she tells us of olbermann
    and says that he stinks
    what smells is defending
    the worst that we've had
    decider in ignorance
    not even his dad
    was retarded on levels that go oh so deep
    katee like others will follow like sheep
    i've been missing here for many a week
    I got a new computer and the words that I speak
    ryhme so much better thatn Katee can do
    so take this one message then go to the zoo
    your chimp monkey leader is always right there
    leading you and the sheep
    your a beautiful pair

    Mark Levin, WABC ---> John Gibson ---> Matt Drudge ---> Mark Levin, WABC ---> John Gibson ---> Matt Drudge --->Mark Levin, WABC ---> John Gibson ---> Matt Drudge ---> Mark Levin, WaABC --->

    If there was any justice in the world, we would all be dead. I will settle for a little more thoughtfulness and a lot less hypocrisy. Fox is an entity that will be remembered as the propoganda machine of the right wing that it is. Dinosaurs were big and strong like Fox is too. They died, and so will Fox in the way it has ruled over cable news for far too long.

    Giuliani is indeed a fraud and he has no chance at being elected.

    He, just like the Bush administration and the Republicans, did absolutely nothing to prepare NY for any outside attacks or natural disasters. The one thing he did do is take credit and make pretty speeches to be sure he got all of the credit.

    Posted by: Giuliani is a fraud at May 31, 2007 12:43 AM

    Your wrong about that. They did do a lot. They made things worse.

    Codas,

    Why do you care if "they made things worse?". Since you had just said that you deserve to be dead anyways it doesn't really matter does it? But not to worry: I have just nominated you for "Suicidal Leftist Dingbat of the Day!"

    Obviously, Rudy scares limp wristed liberals shitless. HA!

    The great majority of moderates may find a pro choice Guilianni, who is tough on assholes, a welcome candidate.

    below average mexican patty, playing the ol' "divert" card.

    below mexican patty, have I made one post endorsing Rudy?

    If THESE are the Democratic talking points on Guiliani then the Democrats are in big trouble if Guiliani wins the nomination.

    - "he takes credit for lowering crime when it is common knowledge that crime was down all over the country because Bill Clinton created 23 million jobs"

    First, Bill Clinton did not "create" any jobs, he benefited from a strong economy in five of the eight years of his Presidency. Clinton played a role in that to be sure, especially by keeping Alan Greenspan on board and having Secretary Rubin at Treasury but Presidents do not create or destroy jobs unless you are talking about federal jobs.

    Second, Guiliani was elected on a "law and order" platform and delivered on his campaign promises in spades which is why he, as a Republican, was elected TWICE in a city that is one of the most Democratic cities in the country. You are obviously not from New York as anyone who lived her before and during the Guiliani administration knows that the city improved dramatically under his watch - WAY MORE than the national average. You also have little idea of just how out of control things were in New York City when you had things going on like the "Wilding" incident in Central Park, the depravity of Times Square, etc.

    Here are the official stats, read 'em and weep

    New York Crime Rates 1965 - 2005
    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm

    In particular, take a look at the murder rate in NYC in the five years before he was elected and during this two terms:

    1989 - 2,246
    1990 - 2,605
    1991 - 2,571
    1992 - 2,397
    1993 - 2,420

    1994 - 2,016
    1995 - 1,550
    1996 - 1,353
    1997 - 1,093

    1998 - 924
    1999 - 903
    2000 - 952
    2001 - 960

    You will also see how the population of New York City, for the first time in decades actually began to INCREASE as more and more wanted to live in NYC so that NY has the lowest murder rate of any major city in the country. And his policies led to sustainable change so that under Bloomberg things continued to improve.

    - any person holding the position of Mayor during the 911 tragedy would have been able to do a great job

    Two words: Ray Nagin

    - Rudy took all of the credit and ran to every camera in sight just to make sure he got all of the credit.

    As I recall it the camera followed him.

    - did absolutely nothing to prepare NY for any outside attacks or natural disasters.

    Again not being from New York you are completely unaware of how effective Guiliani was in dealing with two major weather events - a devastating Nor'easter that flooded the FDR drive and other parts of NYC and a major snowstorm that would have paralyzed most cities.

    I would like to hear how Guiliani ought to have been able to prepare NYC to defend against two planes crashing into the WTC when they were hijacked coming out of other cities?

    Again, if this is the best that Dems can do then, if he gets the nomination, say "Hello, President Guiliani".

    Cox,

    The murder rate went down all over the country during that same period. Was Guiliani president of the entire country?

    Thanks for the spin...

    Thanks Johnny $ for the audio, Gibson gave a very good critique. Did anyone mention how KO said that "people should think" or something to that effect during that interview. (From a guy who has nothing but "canned" fluff from the mother station of NBC and idol, paris & brittney junk). What a condesending puke, just like Gore.

    I would like to hear how Guiliani ought to have been able to prepare NYC to defend against two planes crashing into the WTC when they were hijacked coming out of other cities?

    Posted by: Robert Cox at May 31, 2007 9:50 AM


    How about if he had NOT insisted in putting the Emergency Management Headquarters in the bullseye of the prime terrorist target in NYC (23rd floor, 7 WTC)?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/31/AR2006083101160_pf.html

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A06E2D7173DF937A25755C0A96E958260

    That $23-million showplace proved wholly useless - worse than useless - on 9/11, and its replacement is now where everyone else was saying is should have been all along.

    Again, if this is the best that Dems can do then, if he gets the nomination, say "Hello, President Guiliani".

    Posted by: Robert Cox at May 31, 2007 9:50 AM

    I thought you clowns were all about morality and integrity in the White House. That was the pious mantra during Clinton's impeachment, in any case. If Giuliani would pork his mistress in Gracie Mansion while married to his 2nd wife, what makes you think he wouldn't do it in the White House to his 3rd?

    Given Giuliani's many judgement and integrity proplems that fly in the face of "consevative" demands of liberal polticians, one would think that Giuliani would not even be given cursory consideration...but that assumes that America's "consevative" eleorate has an ounce of either judgement or integrity - a very dicey proposition.

    You jack-offs just might elect him/steal the election for him, with your hands on your hearts and your eyes cast toward heaven...

    "Blue dress interview"? Conservatives have been deep-throating Bush for five years, and swallowing every drop of his fetid spunk.

    After calling Bush a "great man" repeatedly during his "Mission Accomplished" publicity stunt on the USS Lincoln, Scarborough said:

    "I'm waiting to hear the words, 'I was wrong,' from some of the world's most elite journalists, politicians and Hollywood types. . . . Maybe disgraced commentators and politicians alike, like [Tom] Daschle, Jimmy Carter, Dennis Kucinich and all those others, will step forward tonight and show the content of their character by simply admitting what we know already: that their wartime predictions were arrogant, they were misguided and they were dead wrong. Maybe, just maybe, these self-anointed critics will learn from their mistakes. But I doubt it. After all, we don't call them 'elitists' for nothing."
    Joe Scarborough, May 1, 2003

    That honorless cur needs to harken to his own words and start swallowing some of ours. Make it a "hummer", Joe.

    SLOB seems to be the house expert in swallowing.

    Anon Posted 9:01 PM wrote "I can't believe no one here is picking up on Scarborough's remark about the interview. He said that they had finished 20 minutes of sweet lovemaking."

    I checked the transcripts on Scarborough Country and could not find any mention of this. That leads me to believe he said it on Morning Joe on MSNBC on Wednesday morning. If that is the case the can you please provide an approximate time window when Joe talked about Keith? If you can provide that I may be able to track down the clip.

    leading you and the sheep
    your a beautiful pair
    Posted by: codas at May 30, 2007 11:52 PM

    codas---you make some good points overall, but please NO MORE rambling bad poetry. Katee Turic blows you away in that department.

    Wow, RK, you really havent gotten any better about adding real commentary to the conversation. You're putting some breaking news out there...I'm so glad that you continue to post, when did you graduate 8th grade? Have you even hit puberty yet? Grow up buddy.

    And Guiliani is a traitorous buffoon. How many conservatives do you know that donate to Planned Parenthood and endorse abortion? He told us that all of the dead from 9/11 were found? Oops. He failed to mention what he did do with the bodies was use them to fill potholes...Oops. Not to mention hes a fear-mongerer, "The democrats want us on defense" "On Defense the war will take alot longer, and kill alot more men" What an ass.

    As promised, STO.

    I wrote this several months ago but it still represents my views.

    1. Technically we signed a cease fire with Iraq in 1991. Hostilities never really ceased because from day one Iraq continually violated the terms, such as using radar on our planes enforcing the no fly zone. Many Iraqi's were killed when our fighters took the radar stations out.

    2. You can go back to the mid nineties and up to January 2001 and find numerous remarks by Clinton, Gore, high ranking cabinet officers and both dem and repub senators saying the exact same things about Iraq that Bush et al and senators from both sides of the aisle said post 9/11. It was a continuous unbroken tenet of both administrations and both sides of the congressional divide.

    3. Many foreign governments were making similar statements during that time.

    4. Most foreign intelligence agencies, including mid east countries and the Israelis, all had essentially identical positions: that Iraq was actively pursuing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. And they were convinced Saddam was maybe as little as ten years or less from success.

    5. This invasion was backed up with multiple U. N. resolutions.

    6. The U. S. congress authorized the invasion based on the very same evidence for the leaders (both majority and minority) of both houses,members of the intelligence committees that the administration had.

    Although I am certain that the international intelligence community overestimated the threat, much of it was correct. We know Saddam not only had chemical weapons, he used them on the Kurds in the north. It is a theory of mine that due to the long buildup to the invasion Saddam had time to hide some of what he did have.

    I suuported and still support the Battle of Iraq because Iraq was involved with terrorist training and support. Please notice, just as every administration official I ever heard address this, I did not say was actively connected with 9/11. And what the terrorist need more than anything else is sovereign states to protect, conceal and support them. I compare it to political money. It is fungible.

    And, the most important reason I support the Battle in Iraq and BELIEVE in it with all my heart and soul, is that Iraq is the militarily stategic country in the mid east. It is the key (think Poland between Germany and Russia) the stability of Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Kuwait. To say nothing of Israel. Leave a power vacuum in Iraq and Iran has free rein to the major oil reseves of the world. And once it is nuclear capable, that is truly a frightening scenario.

    And please don't counter with that worn out canard that Bush is a war criminal because he wanted Iraqi oil so he and his friends can get rich by stealing Iraqi oil. They could have gotten rich a lot easier by joining in the U. N. oil for food fraud.

    And I also am convinced that eventually we would have faced the situation re Iran being nuclear and over running the area if we had not acted preemptively. And how much worse off we would be. The only country we would have strategically would be Kuwait, a country the size of New Jersey perched on the edge of the Arabian Peninsular. That's not a war I would want to fight if we can avoid it.

    Do I have disagreements with the administration with some of their tactics. I sure do. We are facing an enemy just as barbaric, and maybe even more so, as we faced in WW II. And developing the right tactics is a lot harder because of the amorphous nature of the enemy.

    But I am convinced that if the John Kerrys, Charlie Rangels, Harry Reids and Nancy Pelosis of this world were in charge that that is exactly what would happen to us.

    Grammie

    Grammie,

    I'm at a loss as to why you didn't mention the U.N. inspectors in Iraq, forced to leave by GW. If weapons intelligence was what it was all about, that was being taken care of. And, you poorly worded number five: The invasion wasn't backed by the U.N.; moreover, Iraq wasn't a terrorist training ground except in areas not controlled by Hussein...

    You should watch your facts...

    Gibson does a marvelous job ripping bathtub boy. KO interview with Gore was the worst puff piece I have ever heard. It makes the Sean Hannity interview with Rudy look like a Tim Russert interview. It was interesting to hear Gore put on his Hugo Chavez hat against Fox News.

    Now, Rat, could it be because GWB, like every head of state, has no control over UN Inspectors.

    You can correct me if I am wrong by providing citations but to the best of my memory Saddam was refusing unfettered access and the UN, specifically Kofi Anan, withdrew them prior to the invasion.

    The Inspectors had been refused entry by Saddam for years and had only been back in Iraq for several months.

    The invasion was not authorized by a specific UN Resolution just like our intervention in Bosnia had no UN Resolution behind it. However, Saddam was in defiance of the original ceasefire and had violated multiple resolutions in the prior decade that all had strong warnings of physical enforcement.

    We all know the UN is a paper tiger and I think an ultimately harmful institution. But many set great store by them so there you have it.

    Grammie

    Perhaps you should spend more time watching your own facts.

    I'm at a loss as to why you didn't mention the U.N. inspectors in Iraq, forced to leave by GW

    Posted by: blindrat at June 1, 2007 1:35 PM

    Was this before or after Hussain ordered the inspectors out?

    Just before the second Gulf War, Hussein never ordered the weapons inspectors out...Bush did, son...

    "we all know the UN is a paper tiger and I think ultimately a harmfull institution."

    SO why exactly did you support America enforcing resolutions by what you call "a harmfull institution"?.....And then why do you continue to defend our taking it upon ourselves to 'enforce' resolutions that the very institution that passed them did not even support enforcing?

    As for the inspectors, George Bush strongly advised that the inspectors leave just before the invasion, so who actually 'ordered' them out for their own safety is immaterial.

    The FACT is that the invasion and subsequent occupation is a monumental mistake of historic proportions continues to elude you people....as you continue to defend all the proven bogus arguments for going in with easily refuted details.

    A mistake is a mistake, and this monumental mistake remains a monumental mistake.....nitpicking over the original 'justifications' will not ever change that fact.

    It continues to baffle me is how we invariably hold people personally and professionally responsible for their mistakes in America....unless you happen to be president!

    "the most important reason I support the battle in Iraq is because I BELIEVE in it with all my heart and soul"

    It is chilling to actually see otherwise fairly intelligent Americans make such self delusional statements. But it fully explains why so many more Americans are going to have to die needlessly before the ultimate inevitable outcome in Iraq occurs, despite our futile continued efforts to remake it into our own image.

    "
    (AP) U.N. weapons inspectors climbed aboard a plane and pulled out of Iraq on Tuesday after President Bush issued a final ultimatum for Saddam Hussein to step down or face war.

    A plane carrying the inspectors took off from Saddam International Airport at 10:25 a.m. It landed an hour and a half later in Laranca, Cyprus where the inspectors have a base.

    U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Monday ordered all U.N. inspectors and support staff, humanitarian workers and U.N. observers along the Iraq-Kuwait border to evacuate Iraq after U.S. threats to launch war. "

    Grammie

    "U.N. weapons inspectors arrived in Baghdad for the first time in four years on Nov. 27, 2002 and resumed inspections two days later. During four months of inspections, arms experts traveled the length of the country hunting for banned weapons of mass destruction. "

    Grammie

    Mike,

    Lets get out.

    How? I've only seen two realistic plans and even then we don't leave completely and we inflict a number of new casualties getting our people and equipment out.

    How violent should the US be in getting our people out. And pretend this, your answer actually holds you accountable to the families with loved ones in theatre. How do you explain this to the Iraqis injured?

    Forwarding thinking responses only. No Bush did this or that. No, if you look at this report from 2003. No, you people are so hopelessly blind or deluded.

    What's your plan?

    Mike once again starts calling people delusional when he can't win and argument. He employs the tactics of his hero Keith Olbermann and Josef Goebbels. He keeps stating that everyone is on his side and anyone who is not is "delusional". It is Mike's job to rescue the poor Americans who haven't been brain washed like him.

    Lydia, I suspect we will see pigs fly before you get a well thought out and honest response to that question.

    Grammie

    Propaganda typically takes any of these forms, or a combination of them:

    Name calling. This is the crudest and least savory form of argumentum ad hominem.

    It consists of labeling the other cause, or a generic or particular adherent of that cause, with a noun or adjective having a decidedly negative "buzz" or "charge." Name-calling is also a part of the genetic fallacy of endorsing, or casting doubt upon, a proposition merely by calling attention to its source, when the nature of the source does not bear on the quality of the propositions that come from that source.

    Half-truths. The hallmark of this is that half the things being said are true and the other half false.

    Testimonials. This is a form of argumentum ab auctoritate. A "celebrity endorsement" is a prime example. So, too, is any speech or essay by one publicly celebrated as an athlete, actor in any form of theater, or other such person, on a subject in which the author has no legitimate expertise.

    Loaded questions.

    Distortions of fact.

    Extreme pronouncements, which are a form of over-generalizations.
    Intimidation. This may include arguing from the numbers or reminding an opponent of the power of the particular individual or group engaging in the intimidation--or of an individual or group for which one claims to speak.

    Using abridged or out of context quotes to give a false impression, aka Quote mining.
    Sayings that, however factual, fall outside the scope or even off the topic at hand. A lawyer would say that such facts are "incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial"--because they do not serve to advance a logical argument, are not properly related to the case at hand, and do not matter.

    Outright lies. Dr. Josef Goebbels, Minister of Propaganda for Adolf Hitler, famously observed that if one tells a lie loudly enough and often enough, people will believe it rather than believe that anyone could lie so outrageously.

    How many of these can you detect in Keith little inteview with Al Gore. Mike uses these also but not as well as Keith.

    Factor...no, I didn't 'win' the argument. The FACTS 'won' the argument a long time ago. It's delusional people such as yourself who refuse to face the FACTS...causing more and more Americans to die needlessly in the interim.

    I have a step-nephew with a severe, dabilitating learning disability (it used to be called 'retarded'). And no, I can't 'win' an argument with him either....because he will always think he 'won', no matter the subject.

    As long as people on your side continue to ignor reality, as well as cold hard facts, many more American troops will continue to die needlessly as a result....And as long as these young people keep being forced to die needlessly, we will ALL continue 'lose' the real argument.

    Unfortunately, our present day "minister of propaganda" resides right there in the White House.

    Another sycophantic KO acolyte following in his master's footsteps:

    The introductory sentence from me was:

    "And, the most important reason I support the Battle in Iraq and BELIEVE in it with all my heart and soul, is that Iraq is the militarily stategic country in the mid east."

    Magically becomes :

    "the most important reason I support the battle in Iraq is because I BELIEVE in it with all my heart and soul"

    Notice how the 'and' is presto gone and 'is' jumps out of the hat. To say nothing of the rest of the sentence magically disappearing. And not an ellipsis in sight.

    This is the only explanation that comes to my mind. How hard is copy and paste?

    Grammie

    There goes Mike again calling me "delusional" again. That's number one on our list. This is the same Mike who defended Olbermann after he changed Rosie O’Donnell’s "quote" to defend her for calling the troops terrorist.

    Avergage Olbermann Pariot, I have always called George Bush a democrat. I know he is part of the Republican party, but I refer to him as a democrat because he adheres to the same ideas as classic democrats of the past (big government, strong defense). The "democrats" you support are nothing more than socialist. Listen to Billary and you can tell why.

    An even worse case of KOism then I originally thought.

    Notice how 'because' was inserted so smoothly that one doesn't catch the sleight of hand.

    Grammie

    That's number 8 on our list Garmmie.

    Grammie,

    Wow, that was slick!

    I noticed he ducked my question outright.

    I guess its safer to argue over the past then to live in the today!

    Grammie

    U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Monday ordered all U.N. inspectors and support staff, humanitarian workers and U.N. observers along the Iraq-Kuwait border to evacuate Iraq after U.S. threats to launch war. "

    Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at June 1, 2007 3:46 PM

    Looks like the blind sheik has been debunked, again!

    "In Iraq, by contrast, many polls show that about three quarters of the Iraqi people favor us leaving. Even those Iraqis who want us to help them fight Al Qaeda think we can do so with strike forces from bases outside the country"

    This is a good use of propaganda by Bob. The "Many Polls" line. He actually never sites the polls but you sould just believe they are out there.
    I am sure that if all the troops left Iraq, Iran would not invade. I love the fairy tale that Bob and NewsLeft live in.

    A poll from 04. News Flash it is 2007. Thanks.

    Factor, it is axiomatic that he who asks Bobo a question will be deluged with a lot of irrelevant crap and then called any number of names.

    I once made a lexicon of Bobo Speak. However, Lewis Carrol said it all in a superior way and in only one sentence:

    "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean"

    Humpty Dumpty or Bobo Speak, its all the same.

    Grammie

    Does the Iraq govement that the people elected want us to leave?
    But I guess you want Iraq run based on push polls just like you want the U.S. run on push polls that change from week to week.

    Bobo, if you charged Factor what it is WORTH then YOU WOULD BE PAYING HIM.

    I would be careful about making such offers if I were you.

    Grammie

    Time Table for withdraw = They want us out now.
    Interesting.

    LARA LOGAN: “As American soldiers trying to secure Baghdad already know, those kinds of strategic gains are often temporary because their enemy is able to re-generate extremely fast.
    In his first American television interview since the U.S. troop surge began in February, Iraq's Prime Minister told CBS News today the additional forces here have prevented an even greater catastrophe.”
    PRIME MINISTER NOURI AL-MALIKI, THROUGH TRANSLATOR: “If the Baghdad security plan had not been implemented, we would have a true civil war in Iraq.”
    LOGAN TO MALAKI: “When we talk to Iraqi people on the streets of Baghdad, they say security is worse. Murders went down, but they're coming up back up again. There are still bombs every day. What is your sense of the quality of life to Iraqi people?”
    MALAKI ANSWERED: "There are great shortages in Baghdad because it's the capital and it faces the greatest terrorist threat."
    LOGAN: “Despite this month's deadly toll on U.S. forces, Maliki said there have been many victories in breaking up al Qaeda and other militant cells. Although he cautioned it was too soon to do a complete evaluation of the surge, he said he has great hopes for more progress in the next two or three months -- just in time for America's top commander here to report to Congress.”

    Yep Bob, eveyone wants us out right now.

    Bobo is soooooooo busy saving the world from the greatest danger it has ever faced, those disagreeable posters on OW who refuse to accept his word as law, that he made a booboo.

    That's OK. We all understand the pressure you are under. The strongest and bravest men in the world would crack under far less pressure.

    Grammie

    Janet, the reason I left out the rest of your sentence is because to me, it is irrelevant WHY you believe in the battle of Iraq with all your "heart and soul". The fact that people like yourself continue to believe in this fantasy with an almost a religious ferver, and you continue to do so with a total state of denial of the facts and trends as they have occured, and continue to occur....is absolutely chilling to those of us who understand that this failed strategy is counterproductive to our own interests.

    As for the part of your sentence I left out, the reality ia that young Americans are being killed needlessly because of people such as yourself, who's OPINION is that "Iraq is the militarily strategic country in the Middle East". Even given that OPINION, it doesn't justify the invasion, or the continued occupation of a country built on a foundation of falsehoods.

    The most interesting thing about you Janet, is that you NEVER want to address the human side of this war. It's as if it just doesn't matter to you. To you, and people like you, the dogmatic pusuit of your false ideology is worth any human cost to America, as long as it isn't you....or anyone close to you who has to actually pay the price. That certainly doesn't stop you from becoming visibly insulted if you perceive that anyone might be questioning your 'humanity' though.

    Finally, I admit that I made a very slight and completely unintentional misquote that changed nothing of substance above. In response, you asked; "how hard is it to copy and paste?"....The answer is simple: Harder than you think when you are using a laptop with just a touch pad instead of a mouse to post with.


    Thank you very much grammie. I took a few days off from this site because I thought I had tied up all the loose ends I'd argued and had no where else to go. But thanks! Im glad that SOMEONE around here is capable of compililng a well thought out list of arguments toward a viewpoint (im looking at you royalking)

    Now,
    1. Technically or not, we did sign a cease fire and they didnt break it, therefore we shoudl not have either. Using a radar to enfore a no-fly zone is not a reason to attack a sovereign country.

    2. Just because alot of people thought it doesnt mean it is true. To make a case for war on a fact that was not verifiably true(despite it being a widely held belief) is wrong. Loss of life can not be condoned because alot of people thought something was true that turned out to false. I dont care if Jesus thought Saddam had them, it was still wrong.

    3. Nice job padding this list :-), Ill say the same thing as I did for 2.

    4. Who are we to hold the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons on earth, Refuse to sign a disarmament treaty that every other country that had weapons signed, then decide to get all pissed because one man wanted them. Did he ever outright say he was going to bomb us with them if he got them? No.

    5. Once again, doesnt mean it was right. The war was founded on false(although unknowingly at the time) pretenses. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. We screwed over any chance of really catching the culprits behind the attacks because we decided to attack Iraq. I still think we did it because of oil and just used the WMD thing as an excuse.

    6. Yeah, I'm still dumbfounded by that. Its why I dont endorse either party really. Everyone in politics is an idiot. Plus, talk about political suicide...Go against one of the most popular presidents in history(at the time) on a war that he has the entire American people scared into believing that it was necessary. Now, if GWB and his homies didnt go on TV and spout all this false information then we wouldnt been in this situation to begin with.


    Saddam MIGHT have been a threat to us in some way, shape, or form but he didnt attack us. He didnt threaten us. He didnt even talk to us. He didnt endorse Al-Qaeda. He didnt have anythign to do with 9/11.

    Yes, Iraq is kind of a keynote for the middle east, but why the hell are we there to begin with? Why do we want to be there? Why should we be there? To each thier own, when you start meddling in other peoples business is when people start to hate you. Look where our country is in relation to the most hated countries in the world. If we arent number one, I'm sure that we are quite up there.

    Maybe the oil thing is old and worn out. But show me that I'm wrong. ALL the evidence points toward my point of view. Most notably, the fact that hes going to veto the house resolution to investigate into the oil industry to see if they are really price gouging. If that doesnt say something...

    It was an unprovoked attack. They did nothing in over ten years to deserve it. GWB used 9/11 and the scared people as a springboard to get into the war in order to push forward his own agenda for Oil and profits.

    Dont believe me? How can you explain GWB and Rumsfeld coming out the day after the attacks and telling his intelligence crew to find things that attached Saddam to 9/11?

    How can you explain Rumsfeld and Cheney being in PNAC, an organization that is trying to explore monopolizing the oil reserve in Iraq?

    Well, if AL GORE was in office...ya know, that guy who won the 2000 election, we would not be in this mess in Iraq, we would have attacked those who actually had something to do with the people that attacked us. He wouldnt let Osama(who happens to be the son of a very prominent business partner of the Bush family) get away.

    Yep Bob, eveyone wants us out right now.


    Posted by: The Factor at June 1, 2007 6:37 PM

    Factor, don't forget these imbOciles get their news from shit holes like, bbc and the comedy channel......oh, and Osama Bin Ulbermahn.

    below average mexican, Fox News-#1. I rest my case. Oh, error America-bankrupt...

    STO, I'll start and stop when I get tired, which won't be long. I'll get back with the remainder as I did this time when I see you are posting.

    '1. Technically or not, we did sign a cease fire and they didnt break it, therefore we shoudl not have either. Using a radar to enfore a no-fly zone is not a reason to attack a sovereign country."

    Actually you just stated and answered my point in reverse. The Iraqis were locking in US planes from antiaircraft batteries and we used missiles to take the batteries out. This was a violation of the Cease Fire. There were additional violations re reimbursing Kuwait, returning Kuwaiti citizens in a timely fashion and I think they violated the ceasefire with the expulsion of the inspectors in 1998. A Cease Fire is not a surrender or negotiated permanent peace treaty so technically we were still operating under the original Authorization for War. Additionally I think President Clinton lobbed a few missiles their way for some egregious violations. If I have any of this wrong, I'm operating here from memory, just let me know and provide citations as best you can.

    Now that I am into it I can see it will take more time and energy than I have right now so I'll stop at this one point and get back to you later.

    Grammie

    On Wednesday, Hillary Clinton was challenged by the press about the Clinton family’s acceptance of more than $900,000 in free private travel from Infousa, a company linked to scamming the elderly.

    Her reply? She said that she had complied with all Senate ethics rules and reimbursed the company for the amount of a first class air ticket — usually about 1 percent of the cost of the luxurious private jet travel. According to Hillary, “Those were the rules. You’ll have to ask someone else if it’s good policy.”

    In other words, get lost.

    Is there anyone out there who would say it's good policy for a U.S. senator and presidential candidate to accept apparently tax-free gifts of almost a million dollars from a corporation — especially a corporation involved in providing lists of vulnerable elderly people to scam artists?

    And it’s not like the Clintons couldn’t afford to buy an air ticket — the family income since 2001 has been more than $63 million! So why do they have to freeload from rich friends?

    Well, evidently Hillary doesn’t think that she should be the one to consider whether it makes ethical sense to have rich pals pay for a U.S. senator’s family vacations.

    That’s up to “someone else…”

    Liberal Hypocrisy, to say the least.

    Liberal Hypocrisy, to say the least.
    Posted by: royalking at June 2, 2007 1:39 AM

    Fairy Tale land from one of Jeffrey's bonehead right wing blogs.

    -----

    The Wiener has surfaced.

    Grammie. So...what did Iraq have to do with breaking the cease fire? From what I can tell, it was our fault that the cease fire ceases to exist. And, what does any of this have to do with the Iraq war?

    RoyalKing. Now you're just being slanderous. She accepted few air travel from a company. What was the story behind why she needed the air travel? Why does it matter? That sucks that the company scammed the elderly, whos to say that the Clintons knew this. Perhaps, maybe, the company didnt broadcast the fact that it rips off the elderly until they got caught. Wanna talk about ripping off the elderly? Look at the new medicare program, that wasnt clintons fault too, was it?

    Don't ask Jeff for details. He only copies what he reads from Savage.

    Posted by:braindead at June 2, 2007 11:36 AM

    Braindead, that wasn't from Savage, it was from the good ol' ap. Secondly, facts are facts, no matter the source. I know all you good liberals were screaming "no, no, no, it can't be true', but, it is. That little piece I posted above is nothing, just wait til Dick Morris' documentary comes out.....

    RK, you're still an idiot. Hillary doesnt matter, she's not gonna win anyways. This country(courtesy of yourself and your party) arent ready for a woman or a black president, so Obama is out also. I wish this werent the case, but reality is reality. So why all the Clinton bashing? What did she do to you? Did she point out how much of an idiot you are? Because I did, and You still havent had any way to defend yourself from that. You've only found a way to bash a presidential candidate for something she probably didnt even know was wrong. You havent shown that she knew the company was a fraud. It sucks that it turned out that way, but travel isnt really something you can give back if it turned out to be bought on false premises. So even your bashing of hillary turned out to be quite incompetant.

    Dick Morris' documentary
    -----
    Just what this country needs. A documentary by a whore-mongering pervert. But, he's White and he says what Jeff wants to hear (facts are what Jeff believes, absent facts or discernible faith), so he is a God above all gods.

    Jeff: If you don't try to broaden your persepective a bit, you're going to fall off the edge of your world into the great chasm.

    Chicken Blogger, you made a very astute observation above. I quote you:

    "You mean the impartial Clinton hack ?
    No one will take it seriously, except Fox news. Everyone knows Morris does a hatchet job on the Clinton's (sic) every chance he gets."

    Your statement is so astute I believe it might have a universal application. Let me try that out by substituting some key words.

    You mean the impartial 'news' hack ?
    No one will take it seriously, except 'MSNBC' news. Everyone knows 'Olbermann' does a hatchet job on the Bush Admin/Repubs every chance he gets.

    Congratulations! You just illustrated KO to a tee. I think it will carry much more weight because you are such a KO fan.

    Grammie

    "most of it is accurate"? That is supposed to be a ringing endorsement for Olbermann is it? He gets "most of it" accurate? LOL. Another Olbypologist is in the House!

    If any administration in American History ever needed having a "hatchet job" done on it, it is this one.

    The only problem is that we don't have more high profile individuals in television news who see as clearly as KO does how crooked, incompetent, un-American, and secretive this administration really is.

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