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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    May 17, 2007
    Mary Carey tells Fox News of Keith Olbermann Calling for a "Date"

    Keith%20Olbermann%20Mary%20Carey.gifSeveral weeks ago, when Keith Olbermann denied porn star Mary Carey's statement to Leslie Gold, FREE-FM's Radiochick that Olbermann left her a "rambling" message asking her out on a "date" we asked Why is Keith Olbermann Lying About Porn Star Mary Carey?.

    In a racy interview with Neil Cavuto on Fox News Channel, Mary Carey offers advice to Paris Hilton - rent her "girl-girl" videos and "warm up" to her "jailmates" - before expressing her disappointment that unlike Keith Olbermann who called her for a date, Cavuto has never hit on her.

    New York Post: Porn Princess Courts Cavuto

    TVNewser: Carey To Cavuto: "Why Don't You Call Me?" - of course, Brian dutifully turns the issue into an attack on Fox News rather than address the back story to her comments about Olbermann. Anyone surprised?


    Posted by Robert Cox | Permalink | Comments (190) | | View blog reactions
    user-pic

    190 Comments

    Looks like we have a winner for tonight's WPITW. (And it's not Cavuto.)

    my thoughts.....egg-zactly

    moron BUSHWIPES!!

    I know I am on a boat load of meds but was that chick tweaking or was it me?

    Bob, seriously:

    It seems that in your capacity as "Managing Editor" there is nothing so low, so vile, so stupid, as long as YOU think you are scoring against K.O.

    Quoting a porn actress, just because she appears on Fox gives her credibility, then you take your cheap shot:
    "unlike Keith Olbermann who called her for a date, Cavuto has never hit on her"

    Could you please post the transcript of the whole interview?

    How about the part that goes "...K.O. asked me out. But I didn't accept because I had a boyfriend at the time..."

    [edited for language]

    Now Bob, how about you explain again those *high journalistic standards* you pretend to uphold through the Media Bloggers Association?

    booby/nobodycareswhatyournameis/waybelowaveragepatty, why would we need to post the transcript when you just quoted her? No need to, now. Plus, it's right there to watch and listen.

    Hey, we're talking about a former California gubernatorial candidate here claiming Keith asked her for a date. That puts Mary at least on par with former California gubernatorial candidate Arianna Huffington (and, boy, given the egos involved here, wouldn't it be fun to see Arianna and Keith out on a date sometime).

    AAP,

    Two things.

    First, you are aware that may be deleting content that causes problems in filtering programs, right?

    Second, how is it a "cheap shot" when I accurately describe her remarks to Cavuto where she was "expressing her disappointment that unlike Keith Olbermann who called her for a date, Cavuto has never hit on her." What is the need for the "entire transcript" when I have provided the actual video.

    If there was some concern that I had quoted Carey out of context you might have a point. Since the video is contained in the video you have - as usual - no point except to express your frustration that someone might criticize someone with whom your share a political agenda.

    On the first point, I do not want to ban any commenters but consider this comment to be strike two.


    There is no need to provide a transcript because the entire exchange is in the video. If you are really concerned visit foxnews.com and read the transcript there.

    AAP,

    Go cry in your corner you sissy. Grow a pair why don't you. Olberdouche runs crap like this all the time. Ever seen "Oddball" or WPITW. We merely play in the same sandbox that the doucheman has set as precedent.

    Sorry your sensibilities were hurt Average American Sissy.

    Bob, on to subject # 1:

    I haven't seen you deleting those nice, profanity swollen rants by Pucke, Laura Bush, and D-Ranged.

    Oh, well. I guess those are OK.

    Robert: Daily Kos gives a shout out to Doug of Olbermann Watch:

    Logic Comes to Anti-Olbermann Site

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/16/11423/8181

    KO says crap like that about everyone else all of the time.
    And the reason she turned him down is because she only goes out with guys who can get an erection!

    The girly fans will claim she's not a reputable character because she's a porn star. I'd put her reputation against Keith Olbermann's any day.

    And just remember--the girly fans didn't believe that Olbermann would shack up with a 22-year old girl either until he admitted it. They tried every way possible to try to make the girl years older (Maybe she's an older, more mature student, etc) until he confirmed her existence and her age. I'm sure they want take the word of a porn star seriously but it sure will be fun watching them squirm.

    Brandon, your stupidity is showing:

    --
    The girly fans will claim she's not a reputable character because she's a porn star. I'd put her reputation against Keith Olbermann's any day.
    Posted by: Brandon at May 17, 2007 5:00 PM
    --

    Sooooo Brandon, you are going to vote for the Real Raygun Repuglican with the biggest Dick?

    Sorry, before Bob bans me, let me repost.

    "Sooooo Brandon, you are going to vote for the biggest, meanest, bulbous Real Reagan Republican penis?"

    patty, do you have a laptop for every name you post under or do you use just one pc? 4 names plus anonyloon, how do you keep up?

    WOW! You have to go read the Krazy Kos Kids drooling over Olbermann over there. It's unreal. Here's a sample:

    "There is no other news program on American television that comes close to "Countdown" for ethical journalism, serious in-depth reporting, substantive guests, and addressing the very troubling tide of fascism in the GOP. The first few stories are usually so sobering that I find myself appreciating the guilty pleasure fluff piece that usually comes towards the end of the hour. It's sort of like a chaser that removes the awful taste of Republican corruption."

    (I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.)

    I make a poopie in my pants. BUSHWIPES!

    royal,

    Average American Patriot was coming in under 189.179.104.62. That IP is now banned per repeated warnings. If he has more ways to connect to the internet we will know soon enough - and those IP addresses will be banned too.

    Much appreciated, Robert. His posts won't be hard to recognize.

    I guess it is back to Johnny Dollar's Place for Average American Patriot.

    He can come back here if he wants - after a cooling off period. If someone will remind me I will remove his ban a week from now. If no one reminds me I will likely forget all about him and leave him banned permanently.
    \

    Robert, you told him he had 2 strikes and he disrespected you again not long after. All 4 of him will come back and do the same thing. Just my opinion.

    Yeah and someday soon we will be seeing Keff Gannan on MSNBC talking about how he orally pleased Sean Hannity.

    "/" R.Cox missed the return button!

    Interesting. "Average American Patriot"'s IP address traces back to Mexico. Guess he isn't so American after all huh? The idiot is probably using an IP anonymizer to post here. My guess is that they'll be back under yet another user name.

    GB, he's gone, fortunately. Although, he was good for a laugh. He actually had a sense of humor, unlike most of the olbyloons who are filled with hatred.

    Jeff on AAP: "He actually had a sense of humor,"

    I'm sure he still does!

    Average Clinton C*** Smoker!

    Funny, I don't see a bad word here?

    By way of Mexico? He go's through all that trouble just to post stupid stuff?

    Says ACCS: I make poopie in my pants.

    I'm sure Father James 'Gay American' McGreevey would love to hear about that!

    Okay I'm a fan of KO’s show and found this site on a Google search. I guess it's a I hate KO site but it would seem to be not a very good one.

    I thought I would find a voice that seriously could respond to KO, sort of the other side of the fence kind of response.

    Then I see crap like this video of Mary Carey which does exactly the opposite of what it was, I guess intended to do. Just why is she being interviewed on the supposedly the number one business show on cable? I guess this was a fluff piece? Were the Hooter girls busy this week?

    Anyway who cares if Keith tried to bang her? Keith, as far as I know is not writing children’s books pretending to be some kind of saint. I wonder who that would be?

    Oh look, it's another Olbyloon who has dropped by to tell us how immature he finds this site. Hey, talking about immature, please tell me how you can possibly defend Olbermann showing a child being repeatedly beaten tonight as "entertainment"? Or do you Olbyloons find that sort of thing entertaining?

    Well Brandon, is it really necessary to make it worse than it was?

    He showed a clip over and over again of a child who was hit ONE time...the child was not "repeatedly beaten", and that was obvious.

    I personally found it tasteless myself, as I stated on the other thread, but why are you opposed to stating exactly what KO did....instead of imbellishing it?

    Hey I’m just looking out for you guys. Just try to keep your eye on the ball.

    Meaning, having a porn star say Keith called her for a date just makes you look silly if not desperate for dirt.

    And hey if they went on a date I would love to see those pictures on page 6 of the post as much as anyone.

    "having a porn star say". Uh, we didn't have a porn star say anything. she gave an interview. Cox posted the clip.

    And Mike are you actually trying to justify Olbermann's showing this tasteless clip of a child being hurt by saying, "the child was only hit once"? Yeah, I see that you are. Why am I not shocked you'd go there to defend your boy Olby?

    Ok, so the child was kicked once, but why take such enjoyment in the editing of it being shown over and over? I acknowledge that the original video may have been in that form, and the next video of the scoring for each kick was not Countdown's, but why show something like that? You don't gain any ground in your argument that the little girl was only kicked once. It was the amusment he found in it that additionally disturbing. Sick.

    "Meaning, having a porn star say Keith called her for a date just makes you look silly if not desperate for dirt."


    Silly? Desperate for dirt? Nah, we're just mildly amused that Olbermann, aka Horndog, was checking out yet another twenty-something, and a porn star at that. Oh, and yes, we'd like to see pics on Page Six also. lol Hell, we'd love to see video. Title suggestions anyone? How about "Mary and the Newshole"?

    Brandon: I guess, in your zeal to accuse me of 'defending' the clip, you failed to read where I said I found it personally tasteless....just as I found your bragging about your alledged wealth on this blog tasteless as well.

    Cavuto is such a gentleman. He could have really made life miserable for poor Keith, but ended the interview instead.

    Keith would not have done the same, that's for sure.

    I didn't see this clip yet but when I watched the segment on Countdown with Carey, Olby morphed into a Beavis/Butt Head-like trance. I'm sure Cavuto handled the interview with more aplomb.

    ******
    Brandon,

    Below is from a different thread earlier-

    Sharon:

    Kool.

    If Bob hasn't banned me yet.
    Posted by: Average American Patriot at May 17, 2007 4:17 PM

    I guess AAP saw it coming then but I didn't. The thread was way off topic but no profanity was used. Was AAP posting at the same time elsewhere? What are the other names? I know that RK said that Bob and he were one and the same last night. Is this true? It seemed like that was the case but I didn't want to respond to the name game at the time. I am really an idiot but can you explain how someone can post from Mexico but uses an IP anonymizer? I won't tie up the thread with more of the same after your explanation.

    Sharon, aap-why do you carewhat my name is-bob were the same loon. He made a few slip ups here and there and it was fairly obvious the last few days. Yes, he was using profanity on another thread. Robert warned him and 5 minutes later he did it again and he was gone. Then, O'Liar comes on and starts talking about slashing Ann Coulters throat which was far worse than anything I've seen here, typical for O'Liar, though. That fun loving liberal that he is! "We're not like that" says mike.

    I saw what transpired here. It was in the afternoon that he was on the other thread. I know what you mean about O'Leilly, but he just does the drive by's so to speak. I guess that is the reasoning. Actually, AAP was the most civil to me than he had ever been. Kind of creepy now that I know the clandestine behavior (via Mexico). Don't give Mike a coronary :)

    I thought the "BU$HWIPE$" thing was funny and cute.

    What I enjoy about AAP is that although he works very hard at being unlikable, he can never quite accomplish it... :D

    "Sharon, aap-why do you care what my name is-bob were the same loon."

    Here's Jeff....STILL believing he has the clarvoyance to tell not only who is posting under different names, but exactly what names they were using.

    He was completely wrong every time he did it to me, but Jeff obviously never lets pesky little details like being wrong deter him!

    "Don't give Mike a coronary :)": I admit Sharon....there was a time when something that was posted on this site could actually upset me (occasionally), but those days are over.

    [edited for language], and a film clip of a kid getting kicked, but not one of them understands the implications of Prosecutor-gate (see "Judgement at Nuremburg") or makes ay mention of story #2: the administration's efforts to keep our troops on foodstamps, and to maintain the current embarassingly low survivors benefits for their familes.

    Maybe Bush will send them them Thank You, Chickenhawks" ribbon magnets for their tanks and Hummers.

    SLOB, I would highly recommend you get your news from a more reliable and accurate source. Somebody has been force feeding you some bad stuff. I suppose you listen to Rosie, too............

    He was completely wrong every time he did it to me, but Jeff obviously never lets pesky little details like being wrong deter him!

    Posted by: Mike at May 18, 2007 5:20 AM
    Is that a fact 'woogy?' Remember when I nailed you under that name? You lied about it for how long? What was the other name you used? I forgot, now, but there was another one, besides many anonyloons I nailed you on, too. More lies, keep em coming. mutt was the other name. Keep those lies flowing.

    I thought the "BU$HWIPE$" thing was funny and cute. What I enjoy about AAP is that although he works very hard at being unlikable, he can never quite accomplish it... :D
    Posted by: Cecelia at May 18, 2007 3:43 AM

    Cecelia likes AAP, and we all know she is the model of decorum here at OW and freely provides us with those "standards", hopefully she will remind Robert when AAP's ban is up. Any thoughts on the thread you are commenting on....look forward to your sermon. :D

    Thanks Robert for editing Sir Loin of Beef's comment for language. I saw it before the edit and I can assure all it was pretty ugly and very intense.

    The Olby loons have no comeback for why it is that Olbermann found a child being hurt so darn amusing so of course they don't want to talk about it. How long before one posts a copy/paste article with their latest obsession of the day that has nothing to do with Olbermann or anything discussed on last night's show so they can desperately change the subject?

    Full version on Countdown: May 17th thread
    From Relevant Torture (Either Relevant or True) Recap of Countdown:
    Oddball: ...and there's a tragic breakdancing-gone-wrong video that Keith plays a remix of that I, honestly, laughed really hard at.
    posted by Kristina @ 11:55 PM

    Fortunately, the comments provided us with some terrific insight:

    orinenglish said...
    ...You laughed at the breakdancing video. ... Are you the really young one? Or am I just really old?
    Fri May 18, 06:41:00 AM EDT

    Kristina said...
    I'm usually the baby: I'm twenty.
    Fri May 18, 08:42:00 AM EDT


    So we have learned:
    orginenglish is disturbed by KO fan laughing at what KO, host and managing editor of Countdown, presented as funny....

    Kristina who is only 20, is not quite, but almost in Olbermann's "demo"

    Full comment on the Countdown, May 17th thread...

    Jeff, you are LYING again.

    I never 'lied' about using the names 'Woogy' or 'Mutt', That occured well over 2 months ago, and you didn't 'nail' me on either one of those, as you claim.

    I came clean about them using them both because Janet and a couple of others were showing some concern about multiple names. If they considered it a problem, I decided I was not going to be part of the 'problem' any longer.

    You never guessed 'Mutt' and the only reason you guessed 'Woogy' is because I INTENTIONALLY gave you a clue (I used the moniker - 'MOABs', remember) to ALLOW you to do that.

    It was only AFTER all of that when you started accusing me of being virtually every "Olbermann defender" on this site including LMAO, AAP, Cecel, Beverly, etc., etc., and one time even "every other poster" on the other side "except 'maybe' Bob"...

    THAT was one of the stupidest statements that has EVER been made on this site.

    I see you are now finally admitting....in your own sneaky little way....that i was never all these other people you kept accusing me of being...just 'Woogy' and 'Mutt'. I guess that is the best I am ever going to get out of you.

    Those are the FACTS...and you remain a LIAR!

    Nobody could make up a character like Jeff.

    Concerning the ill advised kick child loop, I guess KO has now given Brandon something to harp on for the next 2 months.

    It's not enough for Brandon that some of us have said the kicked child loop was "in bad taste". Someone else noted that even the pro - KO people on other blogs are criticizing him for that.

    Brandon wants to ignor these things so he can continue his ridiculous attacks on not only Olbermann, but anyone who likes his show as well.

    You never guessed 'Mutt' and the only reason you guessed 'Woogy' is because I INTENTIONALLY gave you a clue (I used the moniker - 'MOABs', remember) to ALLOW you to do that.

    Lie# 1. You're little 'moab' was a slip and I nailed you on it.

    It was only AFTER all of that when you started accusing me of being virtually every "Olbermann defender" on this site including LMAO, AAP, Cecel, Beverly, etc., etc., and one time even "every other poster" on the other side "except 'maybe' Bob

    Lie #2. cecel and beverly mysteriously disappeared when I made it known it was you. Funny, isn't it?

    I came clean about them using them both because Janet and a couple of others were showing some concern about multiple names. If they considered it a problem, I decided I was not going to be part of the 'problem' any longer.

    Lie #3. You only admitted these were your posts, woozy and mutt, when I made it clear they were you. They just don't stop. Hurry up and make one of your posts loaded with "substance" as you call them!

    I want to see you defend what Olbermann did in showing that clip. Can you tell me how you can possibly support a man who finds something such as a child being beaten to be amusing? And he did seem mightly amused by it. But if you want to support a sick, sadistic child-hater, be my guest.

    Jeff, jeff, Jeff, you are STILL lying: 'MOABs' was NOT a 'slip' at all....I planned it exactly that way....since I had already stopped the use of 'Woogy' anyway for other reasons.... and I wanted to transfer your ridiculous invocation of 'MOABs' to my 'Mike' moniker. The proof is in the archives.

    See, Jeff...you're just not very smart...as so many people keep telling you.

    As for your other 'defense'...While you offered up a very weak defense of why you falsely accused me me of being 'Cecil' and 'Beverly' (without one shread of proof),....you conveniently left out any defense as to why you were constantly accusing me of being a whole host of others...including "everybody else".

    You see Jeff, I have SUSPECTED many posts on this board of being made by someone else, including you...but I have sense enough to keep my suspicions to myself unless I have proof. Why? Because to accuse someone of being someone else without proof would be LYING...and I don't do that!

    Now that you know I was not any of the posters you claimed I was after 'Woogy', don't you feel like a fool?

    I guess not...you're Jeff, after all!....but you sure as heck SHOULD feel like a fool.

    Because Brandon wants to know: "Can you possibly support a man who finds something such as a child being beaen to be amusing?"

    1) - The child wasn't 'beaten'...he/she was accidently kicked.

    2) - I already said I don't find it amusing myself.

    3) - I don't support the 'man'. I support his putting pressure on a corrupt and dangerous administration that is far worse than anyone who might show some ill advised humor perversion.

    4) - If I withdrew 'support' for everyone who ever made a mistake, or said something I didn't like, I wouldn't support anybody.

    I guess not...you're Jeff, after all!....but you sure as heck SHOULD feel like a fool.

    Posted by: Mike at May 18, 2007 2:45 PM
    This coming from a proven liar and proven hypocrite, the proof is in the archives......

    Cecelia likes AAP, and we all know she is the model of decorum here at OW and freely provides us with those "standards", hopefully she will remind Robert when AAP's ban is up. Any thoughts on the thread you are commenting on....look forward to your sermon. :D

    Posted by: at May 18, 2007 11:37 AM


    Oh, I plan to ask Bob to reinstate AAP a week from now.

    By asking me about a lecture, are you impliying that there is something comparable between Mary Carey and Keith's current love interest?

    I like Mary Carey btw. She seems like a nice person.

    Where is Rodan?

    Where is Rodan?
    Posted by: at May 18, 2007 5:01 PM

    Currently posting as The Joker.

    And before that- Redwolf

    and before that- Rico

    Same Shit, Different Name...

    I like Mary Carey btw. She seems like a nice person. Posted by: Cecelia at May 18, 2007 4:55 PM

    :D

    Brevity...its a beautiful thing.

    anonyloon, you are sadly mistaken about Rodan.

    So the official Olbyloonpology provided by Mike is this: I like it when he Bush-bashes so if he wants to run a video where a child is hurt and laughs like hell while the video is showing like it's the funniest thing he's ever seen, I'll cut him some slack. I must say Mike your Olbypology skills are coming along very nicely. So let me ask you, if he decided to hit a child on tv would you also excuse that because you like his Bush bashing? If he decided to hit his girlfriend, would you cut him some more slack because you like his Bush bashing? Of course you would. And you'd claim that it was all some sort of vast rightwing conspiracy designed to bring "Keith down" for being a "truthteller'."

    Brevity...its a beautiful thing.


    Posted by: at May 18, 2007 7:43 PM


    The "soul of wit" is more pithy...

    The "soul of wit" is more pithy...
    Posted by: Cecelia at May 18, 2007 8:12 PM

    The "soul of tit" is even more pithy...

    The "soul of tit" is even more pithy...

    Posted by: at May 18, 2007 8:18 PM


    Not to Hamlet.

    Not to Hamlet.
    Posted by: Cecelia at May 18, 2007 8:20 PM

    For this much relief....well you know the rest.

    For this much relief....well you know the rest.

    Posted by: at May 18, 2007 8:25 PM


    much yanks.

    good girl :D

    good girl :D

    Posted by: at May 18, 2007 8:54 PM

    Back at ya, honey bunny.

    pat the bunny, honey.

    I know I am on a boat load of meds but was that chick tweaking or was it me?
    Posted by: D-ranged at May 17, 2007 3:05 PM

    That was real dude, it ain't the meds!

    Just Olbermann's luck, Carey had a boyfriend at the time he asked her out. God, Olbermann is so boring...

    pat the bunny, honey.

    Posted by: at May 18, 2007 9:51 PM


    Who knew they came in miniature.

    what's all this bunny stuff?

    That a bunch of folks congratulating each other on the superiority of their network (Fox) thinks this type of "news" is even worth mentioning is a sad statement about all of you.

    Keep watching the pretty Fox bimbos, I'll be watching real news thankyouverymuch.

    Oooo yeah, Souldrift.....you keep watching your real news like....

    javascript:msnvDwd('00','9a912d20-d7f0-4879-ab5c-d666a07b57d9','us','Source_Countdown','c1149','msnbc','','18729507','May 17: Scary sheep!')

    Sheep in a mask & breakdancing mauled little girl.....over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.....

    Not funny.

    I'll take the snarky porn star who gets a dig at the lame Mr. Olbermann anyday over what passes for new at MSNBC.

    Of course you would , Cee. God forbid you ever hear any dissenting voices from the Koolaid you have swallowed long ago.
    Can't mess with your totally closed mind !

    File this next one under :Just How Low The Bush Ad has Sunk !"

    How about the White House sending Gonzales(then the White House Counsel) and Bush Chief of Staff, Andrew Card in 2004 and barged into the heavily sedated John Ashcroft's room, who had just had emergency gallbladder surgery. And they weren't there to deliver him flowers.
    Their uninvited visit over the protests of then Deputy Attorney General James Comey,was to get Ashcroft to drop opposition to the NSA surveillance effort.
    Even as Ashcroft lay in intensive care, he refused. Ashcroft is no ACLU member, so imagine what kind of proposed practices generated this kind of intense opposition from the Justice Dept.
    The White House's "trust us" approach to running the spy program couldn't pass muster with Ashcroft.
    He , along with FBI Director Robert Mueller, threatened to resign, that's how much they disapproved of the Bush's original version of the spy program.
    As for Gonzales, the unseemly sickbed confrontation is one more reason, on top of many others, that he should resign.
    ( Comey's willing testimony also shows what real congressional oversight can yield in the public interest..and shows how much the nation lost during the reign of the Do Nothing GOP Congress.)
    Last year , Gonzales told Congress that there had"not been any serious disagreement about the NSA Program". Will he soon have trouble remembering that statement, just as he claimed dozens of memory lapses when he testified about the politicized firing of eight US Attorneys ?

    Also , another rotten apple has fallen from the Bush tree ! Paul Wolfowitz wil be stepping down ( or be fired) with his questionable conduct at the World Bank.
    Wolfowitz was one of the chief architects of the Iraq War that was germinated in the early 90's.
    Karma is a bitch, isn't it Paul !

    Iraq War update :
    As 50,000 iraqi citizens per month flee the country due to US involvement there, it's creating a huge refugee problem in neighboring countries.
    Another prime example of how Bush's War continue to harvest horrible consequences for the region.
    Add that most of the quality doctors and lawyers and other professionals have already left iraq, makes the US invaders in iraq continued presence, a no brainer !
    AS Pete Seeger's song lamenting the Vietnam fiasco said," Waist Deep in the Big Muddy, but the Big Fool says to Push On"
    Anyone who continues to support this failed iraqi blunder is also a big fool !

    Only 1 1/2 more years for this tragedy known as the Bush Administration comes grinding to a halt !
    Can't come too soon !

    "Anyone who continues to support this failed iraqi blunder is also a big fool !"

    Poor old Professor Honeydew.....attacks the minority of supporters of the policy to defend freedom and democracy in Iraq while continuing to ignore the inability of his ruling class to accomplish withdrawl like was predicted in January.....

    Allow me to remind the deluded professor.....More American soldiers are going to Iraq (and need funding) as you type.....Why?

    The fools seem to continue to do as they please as the wise dwaddle in failure.....

    One of those fools had the following to say today, according to CNN, after being threatened by something a little worse than Professor Honeydew's failing grade...

    "Outgoing British Prime Minister Tony Blair met with Iraqi leaders in Baghdad's Green Zone on Saturday, the day three explosions rocked the heavily fortified compound. Reports did not say whether Blair was at the British Embassy compound when the blasts went off. No one was killed, but one person was wounded, U.S. Embassy spokesman Lou Fintor said. A fourth blast hit outside the zone.

    "Speaking after the attack, described by Blair's office as a mortar strike, the prime minister acknowledged attacks happen daily in Iraq, but there are 'real signs of change and progress,' according to a statement from 10 Downing Street.

    "'The question is, what are we going to do in the face of these attacks?' he asked, according to the statement. 'The answer is, we don't give in to them.'"

    From CNN
    ###
    Yes, I agree with Blair that we should not give into the terrorists, or give into those like the dear professor who can't seem to care about anything more than their own failed ideology.

    I guess the Kool Aide is distributed in Great Britain because they seem to continue supporting the fledgling democracy in Iraq as well.

    What about that war funding, professor?.....Time is wasting away to get those troops out now!

    cee

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration?s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    Need I remind you how you have pontificated about the Vietnamese refugees after the Vietnam war but now that your "honorable"president is creating a catastophe of refugees and professionals leaving the country, YOU SIMPLY IGNORE IT !
    Could there be a bigger hypocrite than you, Lapdog ?

    Notice no comment about Bush or Cheney sending in grunts to strongarm Ashcroft while he was sedated.
    I understand why you avoid 99% of what is going on in this administration.
    Pretty unsavory stuff from this "honorable" administration.
    As usual, you got nothing !

    hey, how's mexico?

    "I'm not going to listen to your and your left wing sites"...Royalking

    After he was just proven wrong by Fox News.com.
    Funny stuff.
    You can run but you can't hide, Jeffrey !

    Just because I don't bite at the bait you decide to post, professor, doesn't mean I "got noting!"....The stawmen are pretty.....and fit with the left's propaganda....but I'm a bottom-line kind of guy....meaning.....

    What are you (or your pathetic leaders) going to do about it.

    Illegality?.....bring the charges up to be determined as true or not....If President Bush and his administration is all the illegality and incompetence that you and the radical left have said he is, it should be pretty easy to impeach and remove him from office.....Otherwise don't waste my time or the American people's time over it....

    Political posturing is not what I waste my time on.....Wolfowitz quits, Gonzalez quits....so what.....the policy is what I am concerned with at Bush has it right.

    You don't like it.....pass legislation, do what was promised.....fulfill your constitutional duties and be serious about the security of The United States and our allies. If there is so much power against George Bush and he is showing such incompetence and immorality, why do I not see such powerful action against the man and the streets filled with people calling for his ouster?

    In fact, recent polls show he has better support from the American people than the democratic congress.


    BTW professor (I'll nibble on one of your silly points).....
    The terrorists in Iraq (Iranian backed and Al Queda), like the Viet Cong in 1974 were, are responsible for the refugees.... Not The United States or George Bush personally.....Your blame is misplaced and again shows how silly, narcissistic and morally void your world-view is, professor.

    Keep it going....I enjoy seeing the evidence of how shallow and pathetic the left's world-view has become. It enboldens me to continue being stong in my opinion because people like you confirm it's validity by being against it.

    cee

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration?s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    Political posturing is not what I waste my time on.....Wolfowitz quits, Gonzalez quits....so what.....the policy is what I am concerned with at Bush has it right.
    Cee

    What has Bush been right about in Iraq since the war began ?
    Not a goddamn thing !
    You got nuthin !

    Also "The terrorists in Iraq (Iranian backed and Al Queda)

    Wrong again. Most of the people fighting us in iraq are native born Iraqis defending themselves from the invaders( the US)
    Also our troops are being caught in the middle of a civil war that Bush has exaserbated.

    Listen to the war correspondences who have been there since the beginning of the war.
    Al Qaeda is a small presence in iraq.
    But you need your lies to fit your delusional points.

    "The terrorists in Iraq (Iranian backed and Al Queda), like the Viet Cong in 1974 were, are responsible for the refugees.... Not The United States or George Bush personally.....

    No Not George Bush who attacked iraq because " Saddam Hussein has WMD" and the "link between Al Qaeda and Saddam." Both that have been proven to be false !
    When is Bush going to apologize for attacking a country and starting a war for proven FALSE reasons? When is he going to tell the truth about the REAL reasons he attacked iraq ?

    Bush's War is the ONLY reason why the professionals are leaving in droves.

    Your world view has been proven dead wrong concerning Vietnam, and now again in Iraq.

    We cannot force a sovereign nation to submit to our will.
    We WILL eventually LEAVE iRAQ.
    The people in that region LIVE there.
    They are not going anywhere.


    Your pathetic jingoistic points have all been proven false.

    Still posting those same old quotes?
    You really have nothing to offer.
    More and more antiwar VETS groups are forming. More generals are speaking out against the Bush policy.
    " You can't win a war that most of the American people are against."

    But there is George Bush and the sorry Cee, out on an island, all by themselves.

    And you both will drift away in infamy !

    Billions of dollars spent in Iraq and our military STILL can't control the "Green Zone" in the major city in that country.

    Even your main man Cheney went to Iraq and has backtracked on the success of this war.
    ( With explosions drowning our much of his other bullshit.)

    Black is white, and war is peace in Cee's mixed up ideological right wing world !

    "But there is George Bush and the sorry Cee, out on an island, all by themselves."

    And I am somehow supposed to engage Professor Honeydew in some kind of intellectual discussion.....He has me all alone with President Bush on an island.....

    I know I said I wanted more examples of how people from the left are wrong about so much....but this kind of unhinged view of reality is a little scary.

    cee

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration?s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    Joint Chiefs/ retired generals/ American people all see the folly of the Bush War.

    Bush follows Cee down the road to "ignominy".

    1 : deep personal humiliation and disgrace
    2 : disgraceful or dishonorable conduct, quality, or action

    Maybe now you can comprehend a little better !

    Oh, and I guess you have to ship Mr. Blair and Mr. Brown out to our little island, professor....

    "Mr. Blair told a Rose Garden news conference that Britain's next leader, current Treasury chief Gordon Brown, would continue to back Mr. al-Maliki's government, saying Iraq was a critical battleground in the fight against global terrorism.

    “'The forces that we are fighting in Iraq — al-Qaeda on the one hand, Iranian-backed elements on the other — are the same forces we're fighting everywhere,' Mr. Blair told reporters.

    "Britain has almost completed the process of pulling about 1,600 troops out of Iraq, leaving a force of around 5,500 based mainly on the fringes of the southern city of Basra.

    "Troops levels are likely to fall below 5,000 in late summer, but Mr. Blair has said British soldiers will stay in the Basra region until at least 2008 to train local forces, patrol the Iran-Iraq border and secure supply routes.

    "In an emotional resignation speech to members of his Labor party last week, Mr. Blair acknowledged violence directed at civilians and coalition troops in Iraq has been “fierce and unrelenting and costly.”

    "A mounting military death toll — 148 British troops have died in Iraq since the start of the 2003 invasion — has led some Britons to call for Mr. Brown to speed up the withdrawal of British soldiers and to cool relations with Mr. Bush.

    "Mr. Brown said last Sunday that Britain was 'a divided country over Iraq,' but claimed most citizens — even those opposed to the invasion — accepted that it is in their interests to support Mr. al-Maliki's administration."

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070519.wblairiraq0519/BNStory/International/home

    cee

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration?s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    And Professor Honeydew....before you assume your radical opinions are the mainstream.....look at this poll....

    http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

    Consitantly, a policy of blind withdrawl from Iraq (your position) is only supported by, at best, 40% in polls.

    I will continue to be right like I was back in January that your pathetic views, professor, are the radical and wrong views that are not supported by the American people and will not be implemented by the congress you heralded as the savior......Your ruling elite are too chicken to alienate the majority of the American people in supporting your twisted ideas.

    cee

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration?s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    CNN May 2007 poll....

    One proposal would not provide additional funds for U.S. troops in Iraq and would require the U.S. to withdraw all its troops by March 2008. Would you favor or oppose that bill?

    Favor (PROF. HONEYDEW) 39 %

    Oppose 60 %

    Unsure 2 %

    Oh, and I guess you have to ship Mr. Blair and Mr. Brown out to our little island, professor....
    say Bush's Lapdog, Cee.


    Funny how Blair has had to resign to b/c of his association with Bush and the Iraq war.
    ( Something Lapdog wants to forget)

    Also as far as polls, here's some from the right wing Fox that Cee would also just rather forget.

    FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll. May 15-16, 2007. N=900 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.

    .
    "If you were a member of Congress, which one of the following proposals on Iraq would you vote for? Setting a specific deadline for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq. Setting benchmarks for Iraq to meet to receive continued help from the U.S., but without a deadline for withdrawal. Giving the troop surge time to work before setting any benchmarks or deadlines."

    .

    Specific
    Deadline-39%

    Benchmarks-32%

    Give Surge
    Time to Work-24%

    SO 71% OF AMERICANS WANT EITHER A DEADLINE OR BENCHMARKS AND ONLY 24% WANT THE SURGE !

    Leaves a little lump in your throat, eh Lapdog ?



    Another real interesting part of that poll which totally disprove cee's points about who is responsible for this war.

    "If the United States fails in its efforts to establish a stable Iraq, who do you think will be most to blame: President George W. Bush, former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Democrats in Congress, Republicans in Congress, or reporters and the media?"

    President Bush
    37



    Reporters and the media
    8



    Democrats in Congress
    7



    Donald Rumsfeld
    5



    Republicans in Congress
    1



    The Iraqis (vol.)
    5



    Combination (vol.)
    28



    Unsure
    9

    No matter how you twist and turn, the pathetic Cee loses again !

    You left the part of the poll off Bob that shows that the popularity/approval of Congress is within the margin of error as being as low as Bush's.

    Isn't it interesting that since Carey says she turned down Olbermann for a date that she hasn't been back on his show after appearing, what, three or four times in a year on his show?

    You left the part of the poll off Bob that shows that the popularity/approval of Congress is within the margin of error as being as low as Bush's.

    Posted by: KAF at May 19, 2007 7:34 PM

    Of course he left that part out, he's an OLBYLOON X 4, one for each name he posts under!

    Why is it so hard for the Far Right to admit that 70% of Americans want out of Iraq, now, and that more than 70% believe that GWB is a miserable failure? Argue the American people are dumb asses if you want, but don't deny that they have reached these conclusions. Does it hurt to find out you are on the fringe? To have a growing sense you made a dreadful mistake? Whatever reason, get out of the state of denial. It is very condescending to more than 70% of your countrymen.

    Clucker,

    There is nothing to "admit" because it is not true that "70% of Americans want out of Iraq, now". There is not even a majority of Democrats on Capitol Hill that are calling for immediate withdrawal. No one WANTS to have our troops deployed in Iraq so if you ask the question the right way, of course, EVERYONE can agree on wanting the troops home. Duh! Ask them "even if it hands a victory to al Qaeda" or "even if that means civil war in Iraq" or "even if that means defeat in Iraq".

    As for "70% believe that GWB is a miserable failure" - I am pretty sure there is no major opinion poll that asks that question so you are just being silly.

    Let me ask you a question, the vast majority of the American people SUPPORTED the invasion of Iraq. By that logic, wasn't invading Iraq the right thing to do? After all, you are advocating we make foreign policy decisions based on opinion polls right? Can we apply your logic to issues like abortion and immigration too?

    I do not believe abortion is wrong because of what an opinion poll says, same with the death penalty, illegal immigration, etc. I believe abortion is wrong, the death penalty is wrong and ILLEGAL immigration is bad for our country. You think I really give a damn what some media outlet says is the majority opinion on these topics?

    The problem the anti-war left has is that they cannot make a coherent argument for that THEY want to do so they just rattle off whatever statistics they can find - opinion polls, causality rates, the latest report of an al Qaeda attack in Iraq, etc. - and say "see!".

    And what I say is "see what, exactly?"

    You want to make an argument for pulling out of Iraq tomorrow then go ahead but citing the latest opinion poll is not an argument and calling Bush names is not a policy.

    Why is it so hard for the Far Right to admit that 70% of Americans want out of Iraq, now, and that more than 70% believe that GWB is a miserable failure?

    Posted by: chicken at May 19, 2007 8:42 PM

    Where do you get your facts? Rosie? Just because President GW Bush has a 33% approval rating does NOT mean 70% think he's a "miserable failure." Using your olbyloon logic would mean YOUR democratic congress, having a 28% approval rating would, would also mean they are a real "miserable failure," right?

    I think when someone said you were a hack journalist they were right and here's why. The title of this article is "Why is Olbermann lying". There is no way of proving who is lying and yet you assume it's olbermann. Just because Olbermann was friendly to the young lady who is obviously a sports fan--Olbermann is a famous sports commentor btw, you say he is lying? WTF? And what?.... so they were both going to the same finals game. OF COURSE OLBERMANN IS GOING TO BE THERE. Sheesh. People and they're trash.

    I think when someone said you were a hack journalist they were right and here's why. The title of this article is "Why is Olbermann lying". There is no way of proving who is lying and yet you assume it's olbermann. Just because Olbermann was friendly to the young lady who is obviously a sports fan--Olbermann is a famous sports commentor btw, you say he is lying? WTF? And what?.... so they were both going to the same finals game. OF COURSE OLBERMANN IS GOING TO BE THERE. Sheesh. People and they're trash.

    The majority who supported the invasion did so upon a lie. I don't fault any member of that majority for doing so. It was a well-crafted lie, superbly executed. I could argue that this majority did not support the invasion for what it truly was, but supported it for what is was not.

    I supported the war in Afghanistan, and still support our efforts, however minimal they may be, now. I never supported the invasion and occupation of Iraq. I knew Bush and thr truth to frequently be miles and miles apart, and I sensed that in this matter the facts were as phoney as Bush's Texas accent. The truth is always what Bush wants it to be. However, more significantly, I knew and many knew there was no tie between Iraq and 9/11. A far batter case could have been made for an invasion of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, even Syria. I suspect I would have supported any such action.

    Now that the truth is widely known, except to a few serial deniers, there is virtually no support for the continued occupation. Public opinion did not change, the "facts" changed.

    The argument for pulling out of Iraq is that there is no military objective which can be accomplished. The attainable objective was attained three (3) years ago, but our military, for whom I am most appreciative. Iraq has fallen into a series of concurrent civil wars. If we suppress one in one place, another escalates elsewhere. Our continued presence does nothing to create a stable or peaceful Iraq. In fact, it seems to be doing just the opposite. Our continued presence does result in the on-going loss of American and Iraqi lives, serious and too numerous American injuries and the waste of billions and billions of dollars, dollars we do not have but are recklessly borrowing against the legacy of our children and grandchildren and our own national security.

    An argument can be posited that if we leave the region will fall into turmoil. There is some validity to that, except that the region is already in turmoil. We just won't admit it. The better position would be to marshall our resources and use them to keep the turmoil from spreading beyond Iraq. For example, we may be called upon to use our resources in a place where they are truly needed, Iran. But, we are tapped out and we are not replenishing. We cannot replenish until we end the American carnage in Iraq and stop the unending flow of wasted funds.

    Frankly, I don't see any improvement until Bush's term at long last ends, because he will never admit his failure, and we will go into late January 2009 still saying we are turning the corner. Just 6 more months. The insurgency is in the final stages. You know the pitiful litany as well as I do, Cox.

    I do see some minor improvement being bought about by the Democrats, against tremendous Republican obstinancy. So, therein lies the alternate route. Republicans of principle and honor go to Bush saying this occupation is simply wrong and Republicans with their own self-interest foremost going to Bush saying this is an albatross. It will bring the party down for a generation. I think I understand Bush's pathologies well enough to know that he cannot put national interest above self interest and that he doesn't give a damn about the health of the party. I do think if he finally accepts the fact that absent change his image will be permanently tarnished, that he will become a historical laughingstock, we might at long last get change.

    The only question for me is do we leave cold turkey, at once, or do we remain in some supporting role? I don't think there is a good answer to that question. Bush has be talking lately of benchmarks, but that just really signals the insurgents to be patient. The time for real international assistance, something more than the blast from the past, glass-jawed Coalition of the Willing, is long past. Indeed, we have helped create such an unmitigated mess in Iraq that I cannot imagine anyone coming in now, unless it might be Syria or Iran. I'm sure we don't want that.

    My own sense is that we pull back into Kurdish terriotory, support that segment of Iraq and simply contain the rest. In that regard, it is possible that someone other than Rice might be able to negotiate a level of Syrian assistance. Baker, perhaps. Cohen.

    Of course, we risk alienating Turkey if we are too supportive of the Turks, but I think the EU can help us there.

    That is not the perfect solution, and Iraq is going to remain a true nightmare, but it may be the best we can reasonably expect to attain. That is going to be the next President's first task: build reasonable expectations. It will be a formidable task.

    My advice to both American sides of this issue is get out denial. For the pro-occupation folks, I'd say admit that the surge might have worked three (3) years ago, but it is not going to work now. Admit that there will not be any good resolution to this untenable situation.

    For the pro-redeployment folks, I would say admit that we have to seriously confront the funding and war policy issues, a task fraught with dangers and obstacles. Admit that, like it or not, we are stuck with some level of involvement. Admit that, although we were lied to and we are justificably incensed over that, that is a matter for historians and not for policy-makers.

    To both sides I would say stop the absurd name-calling. I am so tired of having my patriotism questioned because I did not and do not support this occupation. I am tired of hearing Americans who support the continued occupation called war mongers and idiots. Vietnam taught me a valuable lesson: the winners were the people of conscience, the people who either fought honorably or sought to end the fighting honorably. Those two (2) groups were our intellectual and moral leaders. I have no quarrel with members of either group, only respect. Now, we seem to be leaderless. But, we do have a leadership pardigm.

    This from Bobo is getting close to the last nail in the coffin of proof that Bobo might be certifiable:

    "Notice no comment about Bush or Cheney sending in grunts to strongarm Ashcroft while he was sedated."

    Cee, you are so correct. There is no way to have a reasonable discussion with someone who is hysterical. And Bobo comes across as hysterical.

    Grammie

    Cee, you are so correct. There is no way to have a reasonable discussion with someone who is hysterical. And Bobo comes across as hysterical.

    Grammie
    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at May 19, 2007 11:27 PM

    Isn't it funny how you A-holes find nothing wrong with strongarming a sedated man to subvert the Constitution. Must be business as usual for you two.
    Love to hear the "reasonable" excuse for this behavior !!!!!!!
    Must make you proud to be Republicans !

    Isn't it funny how you A-holes find nothing wrong with strongarming a sedated man to subvert the Constitution
    Posted by: Bob at May 20, 2007 12:01 AM


    Keep your faced buried in bbc and the puffington post (if you can get that in mexico). Oh yea, don't drink the water.

    Keep your faced buried in bbc and the puffington post (if you can get that in mexico). Oh yea, don't drink the water.
    Posted by: royalking at May 20, 2007 12:47 AM

    Now the dumb one is "claiming " this event was ONLY reported at BBC and HUFFPO.

    Hahahahahahahahahaha

    How do you "keep your face buried in bbc"? ....and what is the "puffington post"?

    Good question, Mike. The imagery of someone burying his/her/it face in the BBC just doesn't work, does it? Sort of like listening to the Chicago Sun-Times.

    lunatic, how com Ashcroft hasn't claimed he was "strong armed?"

    Isn't being questioned while under heavy sedation "being strongarmed"?

    Keep spinning your wheels Jeff. You never get the facts right and when you see them, you don't admit them...Now go over to the other page where I took care of your lying with more proof !

    Clucker,

    Thank you for the well-articulated and thoughtful reply. I take it that you do not actually believe that foreign policy should be based on opinion polls, right?

    I find it interesting that you sound ready to go to war in Iran, supported war in Afghanistan and would like to have seen us invade Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Syria after 9/11. Sounds like you want war with everyone in the Middle East EXCEPT Iraq. Wow!

    The conversation our country should be having as we move towards the 2008 election is, given the world as we find it today what should we do now. You seem to be of the Bill "let them all fight it out" O'Reilly school of international diplomacy. If that's the case, do you really believe that things in Iraq will get BETTER if we up and leave?

    Seems to me the risk we run, especially with your scenario that we withdraw into the Kurdish territory is that the Sunni and Shia go after each other, Baghdad turns into Beirut times 100, and we end up with the Sunni countries like Saudi Arabia, et al fighting directly in a proxy war against the Shia in Iraq plus Iran. Last time this happened over 1 million people dies in a war that last 8 years. Compounding this, the Kurds may well declare independence creating huge problems with Turkey (the EU is going to help, are you kidding? They would not help in the Balkans or Iraq, what makes you think they are going to get involved in a conflict between Kurdistan and Turkey?). You also have the problem that Turkey, already having problems, would be destabilized with the Muslim party taking even more control and the Turkish military staging a coup and fighting with Kurdistan over the ethnic kurds living in Turkey who would certainly want to see large parts of Anatolia join an independent Kurdistan. And how does that work when we are allied with Turkey in NATO and have military based in Turkey. Frankly, this part of your reply seems poorly thought out.

    Let's say that Turkey and Kurdistan do not end up in a war, so the "good news" is that the rest of the Middle East IS at war and the current level of violence will only be a fond memory. Not to mention what happens to the global economy when Europe, Japan, China, etc can no longer get ready access to Mideast oil. We can get a good part of our oil elsewhere but the price would be extremely high, crippling out economy, throwing millions of people out of work. And who wins in that scenario? Maybe a country like Russia which has HUGE oil and natural gas reserves. So we end up with Vladmir Putin sitting in the catbird seat.

    And we are OUT of the Middle East in your plan, right? So we just sit on the sidelines while WWWIII breaks out?

    Some plan!

    uh oh, looks like 'clucker' just got his ass handed to him.....for the umpteenth time.

    uh oh, looks like 'clucker' just got his ass handed to him.....for the umpteenth time.
    Posted by: royalking at May 20, 2007 2:58 PM

    You have him beat by a country mile, Mr Fox News.
    LMAO

    Thanks for that post replying to 'Clucker' Robert.

    It is no surprise to me that you fully support Bush's war policy, even though you have in a way, hidden that support until now.

    Why is it no surprise?....Because I have always known that the REAL reason you operate this Olbermann smear site has to do with your politics, not 'bad journalism'.

    Olbermann treats his nationally broadcast show as an anti-war forum and I believe that is the real problem for you. You really don't want anyone who is anti-war and anti-Bush to have such a forum. So what better way to try to undermine the real issue than to go after Olbermann's 'journalism' credentials....and mount personal lifestyle attacks?

    As for your defense of current policy; All you have done is cite predictions that are really niothing more than OPINIONS about what you believe is going to occur should we withdraw. That is all the pro-war crowd has, and that is all it ever had...predictions!

    The fact that all the predictions that were used to get us into the mess we are in now were wrong means nothing to your side. We are supposed to continue on with this wrong headed approach, being 'led' by the very same people who have gotten it wrong every step of the way up until now...as if the next PREDICTION is going to magically turn out to be correct.

    My point about the EU helping is not that members states would send troops, but that Turkey desparately wants EU membership. I don't see that happening any time soon, but the EU does have substantial diplomatic leverage. I did state that incompletely and poorly, and I appeciate your calling me on that.

    I do think, however, you are being a bit liberal about my comments about other nations in the region. My contention is that a far better case could have been made for war against any of the other nations. Certainly, the ties between Saudi Arabia and Bin Laden and Saudi Arabia and the 9/11 terrorists are direct and strong. Yet, we are almost subservient to the Saudis it seems.

    With the UAE emerging as the vibrant part of the region and Saudi Arabia in some (relative) decline, I suspect Saudi Arabia will become further mired in its own internal problems. We might even see an implosion of sorts. It will cost us dearly to be seen to have too strong ties to the royal family.

    You obviously understand that Iraq cannot be reduced to bumper sticker solutions. It is so complex. I have yet to see even the slightest indication that anything positive and enduring is going to come from the Occupation. Yet, the carnage continues. What is it, seven (7) US soldiers this weekend?

    Your argument is plausible, and I suppose the conclusion is we simply have to remain. That doesn't mean I buy the argument, but I do think this "diminished expectation" scenario should be part of our dialogue. As long as we assign ourselves to either the war mongerer or traitor camps, exclusively, this dialogue will never take place. You obviously realize that.

    The point of intersection is that we do have to have containment of Iraq, and that seems to be a good starting point for a dialogue and for a truly new direction. My fear is that this will not take place until we have a new administraion. That is many, many more American lives lost. My position on Bush is very clear. But whatever one's political disposition, party identity or voting history, I think we can all conclude the the US and the world is in a pronounced state of Bush fatigue. I hope that does not so weight us down that we are unable to find that new direction.

    Thank you for your points. Excellent fodder for thought and discussion ....

    Mickey Mouse hypocrisy: It's ok for Ulbermahn to smear Bush, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Fox News (#1), and Conservatives in general, but, in no shape or form is it ok to point out Ulbermahns lies that he makes on a daily basis. Hence, this is nothing but a "smear site" to him. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You should know this, being Mickey Mouse. Has Ulbermahn ever nailed O'Reilly on a lie? No. He has made countless accusations, though. O'Reilly has refuted every single one. Has Olbermann Watch ever nailed Olby on a lie or attempted smear? Yes (see archives). Has Olby ever refuted one of them? Hell no and it will never happen!

    Hey Idiotwind, not only has Olbermann listed many of O'Reilly's lies, David Letterman nailed him on his show.

    On CBS' Late Show with David Letterman, Bill O'Reilly resurrected his false claim that a Wisconsin elementary school banned the singing of the Christmas hymn "Silent Night," erroneously attributing the school's changed lyrics to political correctness. In fact, the new lyrics were merely part of a 1988 Christmas play called The Little Tree's Christmas Gift. Later in the interview, Letterman admonished O'Reilly, asserting, "I have the feeling about 60 percent of what you say is crap."

    For more Bill O'reilly lies check out :
    http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/billspins.htm

    Can't you get ANYTHING right ?

    David Letterman! LMAO! The Silent Night thing? That's all you got? Still LMAO! The lyrics WERE changed. Idiotwind.

    Later in the interview, Letterman admonished O'Reilly, asserting, "I have the feeling about 60 percent of what you say is crap."

    That makes it true because he said it? Still LMAO!

    When comedians are their news source, you know the left is in trouble.


    With the Iraq War, Katrina fallout still ocurring, the Walter Reed scandal, Gonzales scandal, Wolfowitz being fried etc. on and on and on.

    Yup...The left is really in trouble !

    Don't these morons ever think what they're saying !

    And more young people get their news from the Daily Show than any other source.
    Again, SHOT DOWN !

    David Letterman! LMAO! The Silent Night thing? That's all you got?

    There's a web site listed with much more.
    Conveniently overlooked ?

    Of course !

    After the Royalfraud was got lying again and put to shame by Bob, he's still on here laughing like the village idiot he is.

    Only jeff !

    Boy, these people sure are jealous of Jeff! He must be doing something right!

    yeah, Jeff. We'd all like to be publically humiliated at this site like you are every day.

    Today was your penultimate moment of disgrace.
    And you think people are jealous of you.

    And don't think we didn't notice you speaking of yourself in the third person.


    I hearby declare you legally insane !

    That's called "mocking" dumb ass. Something you do to yourself every time you post!

    One more thing, titty, speak for yourself....

    Robert,

    Why do you let people who criticize your site continue here? I wouldn't hold any grudge if you cut me off for the numerous times I strayed off the thread. I know you appreciate the diversity and find the different personalities entertaining but I am curious as to your breaking point for those condemn your operations here because on a rare occasion, you give your opinion on world affairs.

    Sharon,

    I want to encourage a free and frank discussion and so long as commenters do not interfere with the ability of others to be heard then they are free to criticize me or this site.

    I've been blogging since 2002 and my opinions on world affairs are hardly a secret. I've also done a fair amount of talk radio, cable news and print interviews. I am a right-of-center blogger who does not get terribly exercised about most social issues. The only part I have ever belonged to is the Democratic Party. I changed my registration to Independent in 1994. The precipitating event was Clinton's absurd, contradictory, relativist foreign policy but my lack of faith in leaders in the Democratic party on foreign policy issues was evolved over many years. I was very interested in the Democratic Leadership Council but members like Bill Clinton and Al Gore strayed so far from that they've taken to attacking one member who remained true to what the DLC was all about - Joe Leiberman.

    Believe it or not I did not support Bush in 2000. I wanted McCain to win and would have been happy had he run as an Independent. He is VERY strong on foreign policy, strong in his anti-abortion position but personally agreeably and moderate in some other areas - and knows how to get deals done on Capitol Hill. I suspect he will win the GOP nomination in 2008. I like Rudy but am afraid he may not be ready for prime time after the first GOP debate. Mitt Romney is impressive. I also found myself really liking Duncan Hunter and hope someone will select him for DoD if the GOP wins the presidency.

    Even though Hillary is a tough pill to swallow, the fact is that she has her act together on foreign policy - she is often MUCH tougher than her husband. If you told me a Dem was going to become president in 2008, out of the current field, she is the only one that would give me ANY feeling of comfort in foreign policy. That said, the idea of Bill roaming around DC again is quite likely to mean more embarrassment for all concerned.

    Because Bob isn't like the Olbermann fan sites who either delete comments that aren't favorable to Olbermann, or lock them so no one else can comment in them.

    That said, the idea of Bill roaming around DC again is quite likely to mean more embarrassment for all concerned.
    Posted by: Robert Cox at May 20, 2007 7:43 PM

    Everywhere Bill goes he's treated like a rock star, plus if he could run again, he'd win in a landslide.
    Embarrassment , my ass !

    Robert,

    Thanks for your response. No matter what your personal politics, Olbermann is still a fraud. I found this site initially not because of politics but because of the kinds of details you point out so well.

    [I feel the same about McCain. (I voted for Bush when McCain was knocked out). I don't understand Leiberman's view on abortion. At the pro-life march each January, the Orthodox Jews nail him. He even was in favor of partial-birth abortion which is not the mainstream view. He does hold many of my views otherwise. Hillary may be the safest bet for foreign policy of the top tier Democrats but she holds an unacceptable view of abortion also. But she would flucuate on that if she felt it was to her advantage.]

    Sharon votes b/c of the abortion issue even though Roe vs. Wade will never be overturned. Talk about throwing away your vote !

    No matter what you views on abortion are, it comes down to two things. Do you have the government control a woman's body or should the woman control her own body ?

    Imagine a world were the government controled your body.
    That's Sharon's world !
    Pretty scary !
    That's what religion woll do to you.


    You may see it that way, I don't. The abortion issue is not the only reason I would not vote for Hillary. Given McCain and Lieberman, I'll go with McCain, yes because of abortion mainly but not entirely. Al Gore used to be pro-life at one time.Why do you think Mitt Romney bounced back and forth so much? Because abortion is a single issue for many, on both sides of the fence.

    I have been attacked here before for my view. It all depends on how you view life. And the my body argument is used by the old-timers. Sonograms show much more than what was known in 1973. Many people who claim to be religious are pro-choice, including most Catholic politicians. There are atheists who don't support abortion.

    Sharon:

    It is pretty clear to me that you dislike me, at least as a blogger anyway. However, it's not nearly as clear to me why....but I can certainly live with that as well. Believe it or not, if we knew each other personally, I don't believe you would feel that way. I really believe that you misunderstood something, somewhere along the way.

    That said, I find it truely amazing that you would actually criticize Robert for his willingness to allow criticizm from me. After all, that is what blogging is all about, and that is also what America is supposed to be about. It is one thing that Robert IS doing right.

    This is at least the third time recently that I've noticed you have complained directly to Robert (or someone else) ABOUT me, while showing obvious unwillingness to engage me yourself anymore....and that really doesn't say much for your tolerance for divergent viewpoints.

    "Notice no comment about Bush or Cheney sending in grunts to strongarm Ashcroft while he was sedated."

    Cee, you are so correct. There is no way to have a reasonable discussion with someone who is hysterical. And Bobo comes across as hysterical.

    Grammie
    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at May 19, 2007 11:27 PM

    Anyone who uses the phrase 'grunts to strongarm (sic)' to describe high ranking WH officials is not engaging in anything reasoned but in prejudged emotionalism substituted for factual statements.

    Additionally, not one mention or notice of a far more straight forward and pertinent part of his testimony was made.

    "In Mr. Comey's spirited retelling, Messrs. Gonzales and Card were trying to "end run" his authority as acting attorney general by taking advantage of a "very sick man" who had delegated his AG powers to Mr. Comey. In a series of events that followed, Mr. Comey, under the guidance of Mr. Schumer, presented himself as further harassed--summoned to the White House to meet with Mr. Card, and later with President Bush himself.

    The implication is that the White House was trying to lean on Justice to do something illegal. But listen to what Mr. Comey actually said as Mr. Specter questioned him. Was he pressured by Mr. Card, Senator Specter asked? No. "I don't know that he tried to pressure me, other than to engage me on the merits and make clear his strong disagreements with my conclusion."

    Did they threaten him, or suggest he could be fired? "No sir, I didn't feel threatened, nor did he say anything that could reasonably be read [as threatening]." And what about Mr. Bush, did he twist arms in the Oval? Through FBI director Robert Mueller, Mr. Comey explained, "The President said the Justice Department should do what the Department thinks is right."

    So where's the smoking gun here? When the program was reauthorized by the President alone, Mr. Comey and others planned to resign in protest. So, Mr. Specter asked, does that mean the program went forward illegally? Again, negative: "The Justice Department's certification . . . was not [required] as far as I know." That's because, as even Mr. Comey conceded, many judges and scholars believe a President has the Constitutional authority to approve such wiretaps, especially in wartime."

    Bobo constantly crows that he is the vast majority and how stupid does that make those who disagree with him. As I have said to Bobo in the past I don't read opinion polls to determine what my opinion should be. I prefer to be in a majority because that hopefully increases the chances that my view will prevail.

    But since Bobo seems to set such great store in majority approval I remind him that the National Security Surveillance Act (NOT wiretapping) that he objects to so violently is overwhelmingly approved by the American people. I would think that that should be the deal closer for Bobo.

    Grammie

    "It is pretty clear to me that you dislike me, at least as a blogger anyway."

    1. You're not a blogger, you post on a blog.

    "However, it's not nearly as clear to me why."

    2. You're a disrespectful, self righteous prick.

    "Believe it or not, if we knew each other personally, I don't believe you would feel that way."

    3. Doubt it. I could be wrong, tough.

    "It is one thing that Robert IS doing right."

    4. I bet Robert will sleep better tonight after this comment. Whew...

    "This is at least the third time recently that I've noticed you have complained directly to Robert (or someone else) ABOUT me."

    5. More hypocrisy, it's ok for you to complain to Robert about me, but, Sharon has no right to complain about you or anyone else? Welcome to Disneyland. Hence, mickey mouse.

    "while showing obvious unwillingness to engage me yourself anymore....and that really doesn't say much for your tolerance for divergent viewpoints."

    6. It says a lot about Sharon. Engaging you is a waste of time. All you do is spout or 'preach' as Brandon put it, your opinions in a 'debate.' You never post any facts, i.e. links, credible sourced articles backing your opinions, etc. I am highly opinionated as well, but, I post links to evidence or post the actual evidence to back my posts. I'm pretty sure Sharon does the same thing.

    Why This Scandal Matters

    Published: May 21, 2007

    As Monica Goodling, a key player in the United States attorney scandal, prepares to testify before Congress on Wednesday, the administration’s strategy is clear. It has offered up implausible excuses, hidden the most damaging evidence and feigned memory lapses, while hoping that the public’s attention moves on. But this scandal is too important for the public or Congress to move on. This story should not end until Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is gone, and the serious damage that has been done to the Justice Department is repaired.

    The Justice Department is no ordinary agency. Its 93 United States attorney offices, scattered across the country, prosecute federal crimes ranging from public corruption to terrorism. These prosecutors have enormous power: they can wiretap people’s homes, seize property and put people in jail for life. They can destroy businesses, and affect the outcomes of elections. It has always been understood that although they are appointed by a president, usually from his own party, once in office they must operate in a nonpartisan way, and be insulated from outside pressures.

    This understanding has badly broken down. It is now clear that United States attorneys were pressured to act in the interests of the Republican Party, and lost their job if they failed to do so. The firing offenses of the nine prosecutors who were purged last year were that they would not indict Democrats, they investigated important Republicans, or they would not try to suppress the votes of Democratic-leaning groups with baseless election fraud cases.

    The degree of partisanship in the department is shocking. A study by two professors, Donald Shields of the University of Missouri at St. Louis and John Cragan of Illinois State University, found that the Bush Justice Department has investigated Democratic officeholders and office seekers about four times as often as Republican ones.

    It is hard not to see the fingerprints of Karl Rove. A disproportionate number of the prosecutors pushed out, or considered for dismissal, were in swing states. The main reason for the purge — apart from hobbling a California investigation that has already put one Republican congressman in jail — appears to have been an attempt to tip states like Missouri and Washington to Republican candidates for House, Senate, governor and president.

    Justice Department headquarters has become deeply partisan. Young operatives like Ms. Goodling were apparently allowed to hire and promote based on party membership. Political appointees cleared the way for laws designed to disenfranchise minority voters, and brought litigation to remove Democratic-leaning voters from the rolls.

    The department’s integrity lies in tatters. As a result of the purge, Tim Griffin, a Republican operative and Karl Rove protégé, was installed as the top federal prosecutor in eastern Arkansas. Rachel Paulose, a 33-year-old Republican activist with thin prosecutorial experience, was assigned to Minnesota. If either indicted a prominent Democrat tomorrow, everyone would believe it was a political hit.

    Congress has to save the Justice Department, something President Bush shows no interest in doing. It should pass a resolution of “no confidence” in Mr. Gonzales, and push for his removal. But it also needs to insist on new leadership that will restore the department’s traditions of professionalism and impartiality, and re-establish that in the United States, the legal system does not work to advance the interests of a political party.

    Well, RK, I don't know if that is the case with Sharm because I haven't noticed one way ot the other. If it is that makes two of us girls who have made the same decision.

    Grammie

    Bobo constantly crows that he is the vast majority and how stupid does that make those who disagree with him. As I have said to Bobo in the past I don't read opinion polls to determine what my opinion should be. I prefer to be in a majority because that hopefully increases the chances that my view will prevail.

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at May 20, 2007 10:27 PM

    And if you're implying my views lie with opinion polls, you're further off your rocker than you usually appear.Plus how much of "your view" has prevailed ?
    How successful has the means to your ends been?
    How successful have "your boys" been at anything ?
    And at what cost ?
    Basically the government now can search your financial and other records including your weblog and put together a circumstantial case against you, freeze your assets using secret evidence, arrest you and hold you without an attorney indefinately.
    The Bush Administration has authorized official monitoring of attorney-client conversations, wide-ranging secret searches and wiretaps, the collection of Internet and e-mail addressing data, spying on religious services and the meetings of political groups, and the collection of library and other business records. All this can be done without first showing probable cause that the people being investigated are engaged in criminal activity, the usual threshold that must be passed before the government may invade privacy.
    If this information doesn't scare you, you live in a vat of anesthesia.

    There you go again Jeff...answering a personal post to someone else. Do you stick your nose where it isn't invited in your face to face dealings as well? Do you actually think others here either need or want you to answer for them?

    Since you did it though, lets examine a few more falsehoods you just put forth:

    1) - Jeff sez: "its' ok to complain about Robert about me": Absolutely WRONG...I did not 'complain' to Robert about you. I simply asked Robert to check my IP's against those you were FALSELY accusing me of posting as. He would obviously be the ONLY one who could do that. If asking for a qualified third party to make a truth check to disprove a liar such as yourself is 'complaining', then you go ahead and call it what you want.

    2) - Jeff sez: "I post links to evidence or post the actual evidence to back my posts." That is a bald face LIE! As a matter of fact, you never back up anything you post with actual 'facts'.

    Let me refresh your's (and Sharon's) memory with a relatively recent example of how I did back up an important post refuting 'CJ's' assertion that Al Qeada had a proven presence in pre-war Iraq with facts. I gave the known pre-war history of the alledged AL Qaeda connected group in that region and backed it up by identifying multiple sources.

    Even 'CJ' didn't refute the facts I presented...but YOU did...by simply SAYING I was 'debunked', and backing up that ridiculous assertion with your usual nothing.

    Sharon then stated in a later post that she didn't understand how I could possibly question a military intelligence analyst by using web site references, which I guess made sense to her. In the process though, she didn't offer any facts to refute anything I had just proven.

    While I don't necessarily disbelieve what everyone says on this board, I don't automatically believe them either. I take everything I ever hear or read with a grain of salt. In other words...'CJ' could have been anybody...and not necessarily what he claimed to be, yet both you and Sharon both blindly accepted everything he said without question, simply because he followed your line of belief. Even if he actually is a Military analyst, it would not have made him 'right' by virtue of his job alone.

    Prior to my post on that very day Jeff, you kept making unprovoked taunts to me as to why I didn't "respond to CJ" even though I had not even seen any of his posts at that time. When I finally DID respond positively and forcefully to your ridiculous taunts, you gave me nothing substantive back....just angry denials and more absurd claims that I had been somehow 'debunked', when just the opposite had in fact just occured.

    That is just ONE example of why 'engaging' is silly. YOU don't engage. You just taunt and claim 'debunkery when you haven't even presented a coherent argument.

    Janet, if you really have made the decision to stop engaging me, exactly why was that?

    1) - Was it because you can dish it out, but you can't take it? Reminders include....'humanity'....'groupie'.... and several other similar episodes. I have never intentionally demeaned or insulted you...or Sharon either, for that matter.

    2) - Is it because you can't stand to field an argument made that considers the human costs as well as cold hard facts?

    3) - Is it because I expressed outrage that some right wing fool on this board would repeatedly make false assertions that I was posting as many others when I was doing nothing of the kind? It has never made a bit of sense to me that you and Sharon both would continue to affectionately address this LIAR as 'Royal' after he would repeatedely lied about another poster like that...is the right wing common bond REALLY that strong?

    I can't believe that you care what that old senile hard right winger Republican cares about you , Mike !

    Anon, I don't really...however, I post on this board just to try to find out what the hard right is actually thinking...and why.... because I just can't find anybody in real life who will say some of the things I have seen written on this board.

    I seem to keep making the mistake of believing that the other side wants logic, reason, and facts....but I must be wrong about that.

    2) - Jeff sez: "I post links to evidence or post the actual evidence to back my posts." That is a bald face LIE! As a matter of fact, you never back up anything you post with actual 'facts'.
    Posted by: mickey mouse at May 21, 2007 12:32 AM

    Lie # what? I've lost track. I have links and articles all over this blog. I posted at least 5 yesterday, alone, addressed to Nick regarding terrorists coming through mexico. Think before you post, please. It will save you a lot of embarrassment.

    Jeff, the only one here who should be 'embarrassed' about what they post is you.

    You completely ignored virtually the entire text of my post while focusing on one tiny statement.

    Your 'links' are worthless. I followed them many times and they back up nothing, they prove nothing, and usually they are evading the central point of the entire discussion at hand.

    Bob literally tore you up today...and you came back with nothing...after nothing....after nothing....after nothing. But hey, thats nothing new...EVERYBODY tears you up on this board.

    ) - Jeff sez: "I post links to evidence or post the actual evidence to back my posts." That is a bald face LIE! As a matter of fact, you never back up anything you post with actual 'facts'.
    Posted by: mickey mouse at May 21, 2007 12:32 AM

    Your 'links' are worthless. I followed them many times and they back up nothing, they prove nothing, and usually they are evading the central point of the entire discussion at hand.
    Posted by: mickey mouse at May 21, 2007 1:11 AM

    How's this for idiocy! First I never did, then I did, but, they were worthless! It just never ends.

    It's like this Jeff. Lets leave me and you completly out of this for a minute and take a look at what debating is all about:

    Clucker made a long well articulated post about the war. Robert then made another well articulated answer...mostly disagreeing with Clucker. Clucker replied with another very coherent and respectful argument.

    Neither wasted space posting their favorite articles or links because both bloggers were engaging in a debate backed up with informed opinion gleaned from many sources over many years. Neither one called the other names, mutilated each other's names, or implied the other was stupid. It was a pleasure to read regardless of your political opinions.

    THAT was an actual debate...something you NEVER do! Simply posting a link to your favorite 'News' release or opinion piece is a waste of time and does NOT constitute making a coherent argument. It is expected that all of us have read thousands of opinion pieces...and posting yet another one on this blog rarely does much to further any debate.

    Practice what you preach.

    "Practice what you preach."

    You are beyond belief!

    I reflect back on the posts yesterday and feel even more comfortable on my island [see Professor Honeydew's post (Bob) at May 19, 2007 1:41 PM]....The repetative personal and demogogic anti-Bush rhetoric confirms my beliefs in the more important traits of fidelity and compassion.

    So again....I hear George Bush falsified facts to trick the entire nation into supporting his actions to enforce UN Resolutions with regard to Iraq under Saddam Hussein.....This is an impeachable offense.

    So again....I hear George Bush (alone without the support of The Justice Department) violated the Constitution with his implementation of a surveillance program that did not seek warrants in every instance.....This is an impeachable offense.

    So again....I hear George Bush has only 30% support from the American people and those that do agree with his policy in Iraq are so stupid and/or conned they no longer are relevant....Then political action against George Bush should be a "no-brainer"....I mean simply that according to the radical left's analysis, the current administration has no political power to resist the above charges and those opposed could easily stop Bush if they wanted to....and be justified....

    I hear that the war in Iraq is immoral, lost and causing damage to the interests of The United States. Also, the damage becomes more severe everyday we remain militarily engaged in Iraq....The urgency of the bad siutaion cause by Bush demands action....action that is effective in removing the troops as soon as possible (oh yeah.....and the American people support such activity to get the troops out as soon as possible).

    My question remains unanswered......Why is Bush still able to do exactly what he wants to do as the duly elected executive if he is

    such a criminal,

    such an unpopluar President,

    and such an incompetant and (of course) stupid bumbler?

    After all....I am alone on an island with the guy (according to the brillant Professor Honeydew - see Bob at May 19, 2007 1:41 PM) and one would think that this metaphor would mean total irrelevancy, powerlessness and vulnerability.

    As I read the news this morning.....no such activity has occurred since I left posting yesterday....and our President continues to lead despite the petty slings and arrows of lesser individuals. He continues to remain loyal (fidelity) to those in Iraq working towards democracy and freedom and steadfast against the terrorists committed to killing freedom and democracy in Iraq.

    cee

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration?s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    "my question remained unsanswered...why is Bush still able to do exactly what he wants to do as the duly elected representative if he is such a criminal,"?

    Duh...Cee...you got me bro!

    My question to you remains unanswered: Why do you keep asking US that question??

    Why is it no surprise?....Because I have always known that the REAL reason you operate this Olbermann smear site has to do with your politics, not 'bad journalism'.

    You didn't engage Robert in debate but accused him of ulterior motives for establishing the site before adding your own opinion about the world, just as he voiced his opinion of the world. When you criticized him in the past and talked about this site being in the sewer (or something to that effect) he responded "And yet you continue to come." I just wondered at his breaking point. It is his web site. He is obviously very tolerant of not just divergent views, but personal attacks.

    'CJ' could have been anybody.

    I gave his web site "A Soldier's Perspective." An example of documenting. I also gave the name of a website he established called theyhavenames. (tribute to the fallen).

    Even 'CJ' didn't refute the facts I presented.

    He did . Go back and look.

    What is the point of engaging in debate when you, I repeat, you, changed your style quite some time ago. Just go on bantering with Royal; you seem to enjoy it.

    There is a verse from the Bible that is sometimes read or recited during rites of passage like this. Corinthians 13:11: “When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child. Now that I have become a man, I have put away childish things.”

    I bring this up because there’s often an assumption on days like today that growing up is purely a function of age; that becoming an adult is an inevitable progression that can be measured by a series of milestones – college graduation or your first job or the first time you throw a party that actually has food too.

    And yet, maturity does not come from any one occasion – it emerges as a quality of character. Because the fact is, I know a whole lot of thirty and forty and fifty year olds who have not yet put away childish things – who continually struggle to rise above the selfish or the petty or the small.

    We see this reflected in our country today.

    We see it in a politics that’s become more concerned about who’s up and who’s down than who’s working to solve the real challenges facing our generation; a politics where debates over war and peace are reduced to 60-second soundbites and 30-second attack ads.

    We see it in a media culture that sensationalizes the trivial and trivializes the profound – in a 24-hour news network bonanza that never fails to keep us posted on how many days Paris Hilton will spend in jail but often fails to update us on the continuing genocide in Darfur or the recovery effort in New Orleans or the poverty that plagues too many American streets.

    And as we’re fed this steady diet of cynicism, it’s easy to start buying into it and put off hard decisions. We become tempted to turn inward, suspicious that change is really possible, doubtful that one person really can make a difference.

    That’s where the true test of growing up occurs. That’s where you come in...

    No matter where you go from here – whether it’s into public service or the business world; whether it’s law school or medical school; whether you become scientists or artists or entertainers – you will face a choice. Do you want to be passive observers of the way world is or active citizens in shaping the way the world ought to be? In both your own life and the life of your country, will you strive to put away childish things?

    It is a constant struggle, this quest for maturity, and as my wife will certainly tell you, I haven’t always been on the winning side in my own life. But through my own tests and failings, I have learned a few lessons here and there about growing up, and there’s three I’d like to leave you with today.

    The first lesson came during my first year in college.

    Back then I had a tendency, in my mother’s words, to act a bit casual about my future. I rebelled, angry in the way that many young men in general, and young black men in particular, are angry, thinking that responsibility and hard work were old-fashioned conventions that didn’t apply to me. I partied a little too much and studied just enough to get by.

    And once, after a particularly long night of partying, we had spilled a little too much beer, broke a few too many bottles, and trashed a little too much of the dorm. And the next day, the mess was so bad that when one of the cleaning ladies saw it, she began to tear up.

    And when a girlfriend of mine heard about this, she said to me, “That woman could’ve been my grandmother, Barack. She spent her days cleaning up after somebody else’s mess.”

    Which drove home for me the first lesson of growing up:

    The world doesn’t just revolve around you.

    There’s a lot of talk in this country about the federal deficit. But I think we should talk more about our empathy deficit – the ability to put ourselves in someone else’s shoes; to see the world through those who are different from us – the child who’s hungry, the laid-off steelworker, the immigrant woman cleaning your dorm room.

    As you go on in life, cultivating this quality of empathy will become harder, not easier. There’s no community service requirement in the real world; no one forcing you to care. You’ll be free to live in neighborhoods with people who are exactly like yourself, and send your kids to the same schools, and narrow your concerns to what’s going in your own little circle.

    Not only that – we live in a culture that discourages empathy. A culture that too often tells us our principle goal in life is to be rich, thin, young, famous, safe, and entertained. A culture where those in power too often encourage these selfish impulses.

    They will tell you that the Americans who sleep in the streets and beg for food got there because they’re all lazy or weak of spirit. That the inner-city children who are trapped in dilapidated schools can’t learn and won’t learn and so we should just give up on them entirely. That the innocent people being slaughtered and expelled from their homes half a world away are somebody else’s problem to take care of.

    I hope you don’t listen to this. I hope you choose to broaden, and not contract, your ambit of concern. Not because you have an obligation to those who are less fortunate, although you do have that obligation. Not because you have a debt to all of those who helped you get to where you are, although you do have that debt.

    It’s because you have an obligation to yourself. Because our individual salvation depends on collective salvation. And because it’s only when you hitch your wagon to something larger than yourself that you will realize your true potential – and become full-grown.

    The second lesson I learned after college, when I had this crazy idea that I wanted to be a community organizer and work in low-income neighborhoods.

    My mother and grandparents thought I should go to law school. My friends had applied for jobs on Wall Street. But I went ahead and wrote letters to every organization in the country that I could think of. And finally, this small group of churches on the south side of Chicago wrote back and gave me a job organizing neighborhoods devastated by steel-plant closings in the early 80s.

    The churches didn’t have much money – so they offered me a grand sum of $12,000 a year plus $1,000 to buy a car. And I got ready to move to Chicago – a place I had never been and where I didn’t know a living soul.

    Even people who didn’t know me were skeptical of my decision. I remember having a conversation with an older man I had met before I arrived in Chicago. I told him about my plans, and he looked at me and said, “Let me tell something. You look like a nice clean-cut young man, and you’ve got a nice voice. So let me give you a piece of advice – forget this community organizing business. You can’t change the world, and people won’t appreciate you trying. What you should do is go into television broadcasting. I’m telling you, you’ve got a future.”

    I could’ve taken my mother’s advice and I could’ve taken my grandparents advice. I could’ve taken the path my friends traveled. And objectively speaking, that older man had a point about the TV thing.

    But I knew there was something in me that wanted to try for something bigger.

    So the second lesson is this: Challenge yourself. Take some risks in your life.

    This isn’t easy. In a few minutes, you can take your diploma, walk off this stage, and go chasing after the big house and the large salary and the nice suits and all the other things that our money culture says you should buy.

    But I hope you don’t. Focusing your life solely on making a buck shows a poverty of ambition. It asks too little of yourself. And it will leave you unfulfilled.

    So don’t let people talk you into doing what’s easy or comfortable. Listen to what’s inside of you and decide what it is that you care about so much that you’re willing to risk it all.

    The third lesson is one that I learned once I got to Chicago.

    I had spent weeks organizing our very first community meeting around the issue of gang violence. We invited the police; we made phone calls, went to churches, and passed out flyers.

    I had been warned of the turf battles and bad politics between certain community leaders, but I ignored them, confident that I knew what I was doing.

    The night of the meeting we arranged rows and rows of chairs in anticipation of the crowd. And we waited. And we waited. And finally, a group of older people walk in to the hall. And they sit down. And this little old lady raises her hand and asks, “Is this where the bingo game is?”

    Thirteen people showed up that night. The police never came. And the meeting was a complete disaster.

    Later, the volunteers I worked with told me they were quitting – that they had been doing this for two years and had nothing to show for it.

    I was tired too. But at that point, I looked outside and saw some young boys playing in a vacant lot across the street, tossing stones at boarded-up apartment building. And I turned to the volunteers, and I asked them, “Before you quit, I want you to answer one question. What’s gonna happen to those boys? Who will fight for them if not us? Who will give them a fair shot if we leave?”

    And at that moment, we were all reminded of a third lesson in growing up:

    Persevere.

    Making your mark on the world is hard. If it were easy, everybody would do it. But it’s not. It takes patience, it takes commitment, and it comes with plenty of failure along the way. The real test is not whether you avoid this failure, because you won’t. It’s whether you let it harden or shame you into inaction, or whether you learn from it; whether you choose to persevere.

    After my little speech that day, one by one, the volunteers decided not to quit. We went back to those neighborhoods, and we kept at it, sustaining ourselves with the small victories. Eventually, over time, a community changed. And so had we.

    Cultivating empathy, challenging yourself, persevering in the face of adversity – these are qualities that dare us to put away childish things. They are qualities that help us grow.

    They are qualities that one graduate today knows especially well.

    Richard Komi was born thousands of miles from here in Southern Nigeria. He’d probably still be there today, if he hadn’t been forced to flee when his tribe came under attack. Eventually, he made it to the United States, worked his way through factories and retail jobs, and came here to SNHU, to complete the education he began in Africa. And now, with a wife and kids and lots of responsibility, he’s even taking the time to give back to his new country by volunteering on this campaign.

    Richard Komi may be graduating today, but it’s clear that he grew up a long time ago. We celebrate with him because his journey is a testament to the powerful idea that in the face of impossible odds, ordinary people can do extraordinary things.

    At a time when America finds itself at a crossroads, facing challenges we haven’t seen in decades, we need to hold on to this idea more than ever.

    A lot is riding on the decisions that are made and the leadership that is provided by this generation. We are counting on you to help fix a health care system that’s leaving too many Americans sick or bankrupt or both. We are counting on you to bring this planet back from the brink by solving this crisis of global climate change. We are counting on you to help stop a genocide in Darfur that’s taking the lives of innocents as we speak here today. And we’re counting on you to restore the image of America around the world that has led so many like Richard Komi to find liberty, and opportunity, and hope on our doorstep.

    There are some who are betting against you – who say that you don’t pay attention, that you don’t show up to vote, that you’re too concerned with your own lives and your own problems.

    Well that’s not what I believe and it’s not what I’ve seen. Instead I’ve seen rallies filled with crowds that stretch far into the horizon; thousands upon thousands signing up to organize online; scores who are coming to the very first political event of their lifetime. And just a few hours before this commencement, I got the opportunity to send off hundreds of people who have chosen to take time out of their busy lives and spend an entire Saturday knocking on doors here in New Hampshire. Because they’re not content to sit back and watch anymore. Because they believe they can help this country grow.

    And whenever the doubt creeps in and I find myself wondering if change is really possible, I end up thinking about the young Americans – teenagers and college kids not much older than you – who watched the Civil Rights Movement unfold before them on television sets all across the country.

    I imagine that they would’ve seen the marchers and heard the speeches, but they also probably saw the dogs and the fire hoses, or the footage of innocent people being beaten within an inch of their lives; or heard the news the day those four little girls died when someone threw a bomb into their church.

    Instinctively, they knew that it was safer and smarter to stay at home; to watch the movement from afar. But they also understood that these people in Georgia and Alabama and Mississippi were their brothers and sisters; that what was happening was wrong; and that they had an obligation to make it right. When the buses pulled up for a Freedom Ride down South, they got on. They took a risk. And they changed the world.

    Now it’s your turn. You will be tested by the challenges of this new century, and at times you will fail. But know that you have it within your power to try. That generations who have come before you faced these same fears and uncertainties in their own time. And that if we’re willing to shoulder each other’s burdens, to take great risks, and to persevere through trial, America will continue its journey towards that distant horizon, and a better day.

    Sharon: "you changed your style, quite some time ago, just to go on bantering with Royal, you seem to enjoy it."

    Unfortunately, you are right about this. Bantering with Jeff was the easy way out. There is no challenge to it...and I should have learned to simply ignor him.

    By the way Sharon, I called this a 'smear' website because it IS a smear website.

    I would never have believed that speculating about the size of a man's sexual member would actually be held up as fair and legimate criticism of a news personality....until I read it here myself. I'm still in disbelief about that!

    If I had not seen many intentional amplifications of KO's obvious bias, such as the substitution of "the US 'blinked" in place of "did we blink", and many other similar things that are done here routinely, a case could be made on the contrary.

    If terms like 'Fatass', and 'monkeyman' were not used on a RECURRING basis, it might be different.

    This site is clearly dedicated to parsing every single word and inflection made by by a man who is on the air for 3 hours a day, and then spinning the most egregious comments in the most negative way possible...never positive.

    The only mitigating factor is that he does allow people like me to post, but what 'good' would such a policy be if we were forced to withhold our views in order to avoid making the Webmaster angry?

    There is no challenge to it.
    Posted by: Mike at May 21, 2007 12:45 PM

    I feel the same way about pointing out your lies and hypocritical posts and comments. I could do it blind folded! It's boring, now.

    If I had not seen many intentional amplifications of KO's obvious bias, such as the substitution of "the US 'blinked" in place of "did we blink", and many other similar things that are done here routinely, a case could be made on the contrary.


    1. Are you still crying about that? Is that one of the "hundreds of obvious" misinterpretations, but, it's the only one you constantly bring up?

    If terms like 'Fatass', and 'monkeyman' were not used on a RECURRING basis, it might be different.

    2. These are names your hero has called other people. Is it only ok for him to use them? Get over it, I don't think they will be going away anytime in the near future.

    FYI MIke,

    I did give you a link to something you would probably appreciate near the end of the thread on the live debate. I am fair and balanced.

    I love it when someone quotes Hamlet then has to tell everyone its Hamlet. Didn't Olbermann quote Hamlet to his one-night-FAN-stand? Classy guy. Quoting Hamlet on the "porn star" thread, that too is very classy. Great minds must think alike. Thanks for stopping by...

    Give it up Mike, you are vastly out-numbered by the "cut & paste journalists" here. How does that go again, if I copied it from the internets it must be true...

    The link I referenced supports the argument Mike was making.

    Sharon, I will read it later when I have a little more time. Thanks.

    Just now on DRUDGE....

    Dems Set War Bill Without Iraq Timeline

    WASHINGTON (AP) - In grudging concessions to President Bush, Democrats intend to draft an Iraq war-funding bill without a timeline for the withdrawal of U.S. troops and shorn of billions of dollars in spending on domestic programs, officials said Monday.


    ###
    Why? Yes.....this is the 89th time I have asked this question.....

    Why? (90th)....This war the democrats are willing to fund has been described by them as

    absurd
    lost
    evil
    immoral
    lining Haliburton's pockets
    lining Cheney's pockets
    killing innocents
    creating refugees
    creating terrorists
    based on lies
    Bush's war
    a waste of money
    a waste of lives
    vastly unpopular
    the reason the democrats now control congress

    and it goes (and will) go on, and on, and on, an on.....

    CUT THE FUNDS....STOP THE WAR!

    Oh....and Keith Olbermann goes to his baseball game instead of covering this important story of cowardice and political maneuvering.....Where's that Special Comment?

    cee

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration?s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    "Democrats intend to draft an Iraq war-funding bill"

    Why?

    "Democrats intend to draft an Iraq war-funding bill"

    Why?

    And I'm not the only one.....

    From HuffPo posters.....

    Let the Democratic Party cave into the Bu$h junta and criminal cabal...

    "Make *NO* mistake about it, there will be *HELL* to pay!"


    "In this way, the Congress will have offered a TOKEN to the will of the American people, while maintaining unchanged its determination to continue pursuing the true cause of this war. It will have carefully prepared a way to fix the blame on "the other party." But make no mistake: the Congress wants to seize Iraq's oil, just as much as the President does."


    "Why have our so-called elected Democratic officials stabbed us in the back yet again? Did we not vote for an end to the war? I thought there was support for that, unless I am wrong."

    "How the hell does a president with only a 28% approval rating get whatever he wants? What a bunch of sniveling cowards, just another rubber-stamp Congress."

    "This is absolutely enraging!! How dare you, democrats?! You're gonna cave in to Bush yet again, when YOU have the power, 100% of the truth and logic, AND the overwhelming majority of Americans on your side?? What kind of stupid-ass strategy is this? Are you this incompetent at getting your message across, at asserting your power? This is absolutely PATHETIC. I've spent my adult years defending democrats at nearly every turn, but this is utterly indefensible. You might just lose my support completely now."

    cee

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden


    Thank you, Cee, for the news flash from Drudge. As I remember, he called the 2004 election for Kerry that long ago and ill-fated day.

    I gather from you that the object of this portion of this blog is to repeat an inane question and follow the question with a series of oft-repeated inane quotes. So:

    IF "q" is always followed by "u" in English, we don't really have a letter "q" do we? We have a letter "qu".

    As for the quotation:

    "A new minted word smiles with entrancing meaning, it wells into wit and gaiety, it is so happy, such pure gold, it is utterly sublime. Agreeably sustained, most pleasantly modulated, full of shrewd, innocent magic, presented with restraint and boldness at once."

    Tomas Mann, LOTTE IN WEIMAR: THE BELOVED RETURNS.

    What a wonderful exercise!

    Thank you, Cee, for the news flash from Drudge. As I remember, he called the 2004 election for Kerry that long ago and ill-fated day.

    I gather from you that the object of this portion of this blog is to repeat an inane question and follow the question with a series of oft-repeated inane quotes. So:

    IF "q" is always followed by "u" in English, we don't really have a letter "q" do we? We have a letter "qu".

    As for the quotation:

    "A new minted word smiles with entrancing meaning, it wells into wit and gaiety, it is so happy, such pure gold, it is utterly sublime. Agreeably sustained, most pleasantly modulated, full of shrewd, innocent magic, presented with restraint and boldness at once."

    Tomas Mann, LOTTE IN WEIMAR: THE BELOVED RETURNS.

    What a wonderful exercise!

    Cee,

    You've called it correctly minute-by-minute. There could not be more of a contrast between actions and campaign rhetoric.


    Chuckie Bob-- you mentioned that Olbermann had said that he was going to give the Democrats six months to act on their own rhetoric and if they did not, he would then start taking them to task.

    It's been six months, Chucks. Do you think we'll see that happen tonight? Or does even Olbermann know '08 politics with the war when he sees it?

    One posting of your ideas would have been enough Clucker....And I am sorry you can't answer my question either....It seems to be a real problem for many, especially those on the religious left who swore to all of us we would be pulling out of Iraq this year with the valiant democrats in control of the representative branch.

    Mmmm....What about those results in '06....What have they produced other than sniping, carping and the lowest approval ratings for both parties in recent memory?....

    Surely, no leadership.

    cee

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration?s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    Let's be very clear: We are in Iraq because of the unabashed lies of George W. Bush, because the media (including the MSM) fell down on its job and because many of us mistakenly, shamefully cowered when the bullies came out shouting "unpatriotic". Our invasion of Iraq is a momumental blunder. Our occupation is also a blunder. A tragic, deadly, costly blunder. Yet, we are there. And, there is no good way out. I don't know if a compromise is truly in the works or not. I would be surprised if it were not. We have to fund our troops, It is our sacred, moral obligation to do so. We have to plan a prudent withdrawal that will cause as little disruption in the region as possible. Both the remaining and the withdrawing are going to be awful. But don't you dare, Cee, in your smug and unreasoned posturing make this some sort of capitulation. It is called good governance. It is the way a democracy functions. You and your petty tyrant leader can scream "My Way or the Highway" until your throats are raw, but it is not governing, and it does not promote sound policy. In fact, this attitude is why we are mired in a hideous situation in which there is no victory, but only the loss of thousands of American lives and the expenditure of billions of dollars on credit which robs our children and our grandchildren of their legacy and makes us all far less secure. If you want to play some callous, infantile game of political one upmanship, do it, but don't wear some great mantle of wisdom and sagacity. These are traits you do not possess and cannot even mimic effectiviely, and you and your kind do great, great damage to our nation's principles and security. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    Ooooo, weeee....a nerve has been struck....

    The sanctimony, Clucker, is not mine, it is not George Bush's....The sanctimony comes from the left only.

    I fully support continued military engagement in Iraq until either the democratically elected Iraqi government asks us to leave or the military commanders on the ground say the situation is no longer tenable. Neither has happened so I respect the US Constitution which says the executive has command over the armed forces while Congress funds it all....I have been consistent, quiet in my support of OUR America President as has been the brave men and women of our armed forces.

    You are soooo wrong, Clucker....The actions of the congressional leadership is POOR governance. Political compromise in decisions over WAR is for the benefit of the ruling class ONLY....It has NO, repeat NO benefit for our foreign policy or national security. If we followed the CLEAR option of Reid-Feingold, Bush would be forced to withdrawl the troops and it would be done orderly and safely. Instead....we get more political maneuvering from a party (the democrats) incapable of providing leadership in contrast to the current executive.

    Clucker....stop making excuses for the failed leadership of the democrat party. George Bush believes in not abandoning an ally....General Petreus continues to lead the forces in the difficult mission against radical elements in Iraq which includes Al Queda and Iran. If this should be stopped prior to the duly elected commander-in-chief making the decision it will only be through defunding.....The honorable and constitutional way.

    The democrats failed to stop "a hideous situation in which there is no victory, but only the loss of thousands of American lives and the expenditure of billions of dollars on credit which robs our children and our grandchildren of their legacy and makes us all far less secure." (your words!) It IS NOT George Bush's way or the highway....he can be stopped with a simple action.....

    No appropriation.

    The democrats did capitulate to the power of the executive EVEN THOUGH they continue to whine that the war is

    absurd
    lost
    evil
    immoral
    lining Haliburton's pockets
    lining Cheney's pockets
    killing innocents
    creating refugees
    creating terrorists
    based on lies
    Bush's war
    a waste of money
    a waste of lives
    vastly unpopular
    the reason the democrats now control congress

    They are wrong in doing so.....but I did expect as much from them.

    cee

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration?s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    Cee is still an idiot.

    You are anything but quiet. You are shrill and whiney, and I am frankly sick to death of your abject fealty to Bush. No American should bow down to another person, and you make yourself prostrate before him. It is beyond my understanding. But, I am a person with at least some proud, some reasoning and some sense of what America is all about.

    Well, if you and Bush have your way, there well be 50,000 American soldiers lost. I certainly hope it is worth it to the two of you.

    An ally? Indeed!

    You are absurd. And as with your partner in arms, rk/Jeff, I am done with you. There is no hope for you. Cut as paste your tiresome quotes and bow and scrape to King George to your heart's content. You are not worth my time.

    So again....I hear George Bush falsified facts to trick the entire nation into supporting his actions to enforce UN Resolutions with regard to Iraq under Saddam Hussein.....This is an impeachable offense.
    Posted by: cee at May 21, 2007 8:32 AM

    First time you've been right about something in a long time. But he won't be impeached. Not b/c of the Democrats as you keep crying disingenuously about but b/c there are not enough votes coming from the REPUBLICANS to get him impeached.
    So it would be a fruitless endeavor to try to impeach this man who so deserves to be impeached if there are not enough votes.

    So all your grandstanding and baiting is totally without merit.
    Just like your views on the Iraq War.

    No appropriation. Are you really suggesting that they just cut off funding all together and allow the troops to suffer? You might say that we hate the troops, but we're not gonna let George Bush use the troops as collateral so he can keep playing his war games. And the war is absurd, lost, evil, immoral, killing innocents, creating refugees, creating terrorists, based on lie. It is Bush's war. It is a waste of money, lives, and is vastly unpopular. Oh yeah. Also, did you hear that the Iraqi Parliment DID ask us to leave? http://revolttoday.blogspot.com/2007/05/iraq-parliament-to-us-go-home.html Yeah, that happened about 2 weeks ago, too bad Bush isnt listening, he still vetoed the bill and plans on doing it again in the future. Im sorry that our congress is trying to work WITH the president and not against him. Im sorry that we arent like the right wing and just do shit how we want it. We try to take everyone into account to come up with the best possible solution.

    Oh yeah. Also, did you hear that the Iraqi Parliment DID ask us to leave? http://revolttoday.blogspot.com/2007/05/iraq-parliament-to-us-go-home.html Yeah, that happened about 2 weeks ago,

    I guess Cee will now come out strongly for the end of the Iraq war, if he is a man of his word.

    let's see !
    Don't hold your breath !

    It's been six months, Chucks. Do you think we'll see that happen tonight? Or does even Olbermann know '08 politics with the war when he sees it?
    Posted by: Cecelia at May 21, 2007 6:53 PM

    Along with a multitude of deficiencies, counting must be added to the list.
    From Jan thru May would be 5 months.

    Also, from a shrill shrew like yourself who has never held her party accountable for anything, you calling for someone else to be accountable reaks just a bit of hypocrisy, doesn't it ?

    So it would be a fruitless endeavor to try to impeach this man who so deserves to be impeached if there are not enough votes.

    Posted by: titty at May 21, 2007 8:26 PM

    Talk about singing a different tune. What song will you be singing tomorrow? Pssst, let me tell you a secret, you have to commit a crime before you get impeached. BJ didn't get impeached for chasing skirts or the hummer he got from the doughy chick that didn't know what she was doing, he got impeached for LYING under oath. Remember?

    Worth noting on a different subject, Peanut Carter is more popular in countries that hate us than he is here, i.e. North Korea, Iran. Oh and Micheal Moore's house......

    Because of the president the Royalmoron keeps making excuses for, most of the countries in the world hate us.
    Maybe you haven't noticed !

    He, he, he...."abject fealty to Bush."

    "King George"

    Oh yeah.....that island where it's just little ol' me and W.....good.

    Nice.

    This is what it is all about to the left.....it is PERSONAL.....Emotional, demogogic, blind hatred. In reality, your position is merely "anti-Bush" not anti-Iraq War. What a superficial stand.

    As Yoda said to Luke....."This is why you fail."

    Oh well, too bad to see this is still the case after over 5 months of new governance in the Congress. The continued anger and hatred directed towards me and The President is not very productive....as has been my point all along.

    cee

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration?s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK


    Newsflash to anonyloon, those countries that hate us now, already hated us! Did N. Korea like us before? Did Iran like us before? No, to both. I think using the word "most" is a stretch, to say the least. One more think, loony, I haven't made any excuses for Bush. So, "keeps" might not be a good word to use, either.

    Um Nick and Chicken Blogger....

    The petition you breathlessly post was nonbinding and never brought before the full parliment for a vote....it was a nice example of blue blog propaganda though!

    I like this piece of fact in rebuttal.....

    http://www.dcmilitary.com/stories/051707/stripe_28077.shtml

    Top Iraqi officials visit Walter Reed
    5/17/07

    "Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Barham Salih and the Iraqi Permanent Representative to the United Nations Ambassador Samir Shakir Mahmood Sumaida’ie visited Walter Reed Army Medical Center Sunday to thank recovering servicemembers for their sacrifices in the Global War on Terrorism while trying to bring democracy and freedom to their country.

    "During a statement following his one-hour visit, Salih said ‘spending time with American heroes; meeting their families and hearing their stories and heroic tales was moving.

    ‘‘'It was truly a humbling experience for me to meet with these great American heroes and hear firsthand their experiences and aspirations for Iraq and the world,' Salih said.

    ‘‘'I came to affirm to them and to their Families the profound gratitude that we feel in Iraq for their sacrifices, and to assure them that we owe it to the people of Iraq, we owe it to the Iraqi military and to their partners in the Ameri-can military to win against the forces of terror and tyranny,” Salih said.

    "Salih, elected to the Iraqi National Assembly in Decem-ber 2005, said Iraq’s battle against terror and tyranny is one '‘we cannot afford to lose. We must win this battle against al- Qaeda and against terrorism, and I know from the stories that I’ve heard today, and from the spirit I witnessed today, the terrorists cannot win. Humanity cannot allow them to win.”

    ###
    The ideals above is what I declare abject featy to.....How about you guys?

    cee

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration?s policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    The idiot Cee dares to bring up Walter Reed.Another of the long line of lowlights of the Bush Administration.
    Walter Reed is a perfect example of Bush's privitization that went amok.
    The scandal was a disgrace , but he still thinks Bush is Jimmy Stewart.

    Cee is becoming a cartoon character.

    Newsflash to anonyloon, those countries that hate us now, already hated us! Did N. Korea like us before? Did Iran like us before? No, to both. I think using the word "most" is a stretch, to say the least. One more think, loony, I haven't made any excuses for Bush. So, "keeps" might not be a good word to use, either.
    Posted by: royalking at May 21, 2007 9:25 PM

    The terminably incorrect Royalking still thinks that only N Korea and Iran hate us.
    Try MOST of the world, idiot.
    And you don't even know why.
    Keep posting at this site, please.
    I always can count on coming here for my laugh of the day !

    You loons. Where did I say "only N. Korea and Iran hate us?" Those were just a couple of good examples. Desperate, indeed. Try as you may, I'll keep laughing in dismay....

    More news for the Iraq War supporters!
    Listen up Cee !

    Jeffrey Lucey (1981-2004)
    Joshua Omvig (1983-2005)
    Jonathan Schulze (1981-2007)

    Like countless others, each of these young men served honorably in Iraq, but came home unable to cope with their memories of combat. Each one sought help from the military or from the Department of Veterans Affairs. But in each case, the hospital was overbooked, the counselors didn't listen, or the bureaucracy moved too slowly.
    Only months after their return from war, each of these young heroes committed suicide.

    How did this happen? Simply because the veterans' support system is overwhelmed. Over 50,000 Iraq veterans have already been diagnosed with PTSD. Tens of thousands are waiting for VA appointments. One-third of Vet Centers (walk-in counseling clinics for combat veterans and their families) lack adequate counseling staff. Even a VA official has admitted that waiting lists render mental health and substance abuse care "virtually inaccessible."

    I'd like to share the story of a friend of mine that experienced the failings of the current system first-hand. Drew Brown served as a Sergeant First Class training Iraq's soldiers in Fallujah, Taji, Baghdad and Baquba. Like Joshua Omvig, Jeffrey Lucy, and Jonathan Schulze, Drew struggled to readjust when he came home and he sought help.

    Now, Drew has bravely offered to share his story in the hopes of helping other Iraq veterans hold on long enough to get the care they need -- and of spurring action in Washington to make sure no more Iraq veterans fall through the cracks:

    "One night, while my wife slept only feet from me, I came to the conclusion that she would not be able to stop me if I chose to end my life. With the speed and accuracy of my years handling weapons, I could easily load a magazine, chamber a round, remove the safety and squeeze the trigger before she even got out of bed. I could taste the Hoppe's #9, feel the front sight post as it pressed against the roof of my mouth.

    For months I tried to schedule an appointment with the VA. I was told I would need to schedule an appointment three weeks out, at a hospital that is an hours' drive away. The appointment would only be scheduled between 8:30 am and 4:30 pm, Monday through Friday. Even assuming I would walk right in and be seen, it would take me an hour to get there, an hour there, then an hour back to work. Who can blow half a day on an hour-long appointment? I can't.

    One issue I was particularly perturbed about was the Post Deployment Health Readiness Assessment (PDHRA). This was the Army's paper trail, so the top brass could say, "Look! We're accomplishing something!" Actually, they were only tracking, not treating. I filled out the form five times from October 2005 to December 2006. In all five instances, I asked for help from a mental health professional. In all five instances, I received no help and no follow-up calls.

    In late February 2007, I was so incensed that the PDHRA was being bandied about by Generals as proof that they were tracking troops' mental health problems, that I called the civilian company that is supposed to handle the forms. Eventually, a program manager told me my case was closed.

    My case was closed? I was incredulous. I made him read the part on the copies of the forms where I asked for contact from a mental health professional, which he did. Then I asked him to show me the record of said professional contacting me, which he could not do. He asked me to again fill out the form and said he would reopen my case. I did what was asked dutifully, and waited.

    Two weeks later, the PDHRA folks finally called me back. It only took 16 months.

    I held nothing back from them and told them what was weighing on my mind. I had nothing to lose. In a span of minutes, I was on the phone with a counselor, then social worker from the local VA hospital. They took no chances and scheduled appointments as quickly as possible, and at an outpatient clinic that was minutes from my house.

    That's the good news. The bad news is my first appointment was 2 weeks later. There are those that might not have lasted that long..."

    Thankfully, help came in time for Drew. But it took a full sixteen months for the military and veterans affairs' systems to respond to his repeated requests for counseling. During that time, Drew was suffering from depression, anger, and flashbacks.

    You can take action to help veterans like Drew get the help they need. Last week, IAVA officially endorsed legislation introduced by Congressman Jim Moran of Virginia, calling for the creation of a national veteran's suicide prevention hotline. The bill is making its way through the House, and we will be pushing to get it passed. And you can help. Contact your elected officials and urge them to support this bill. This is just one step of many that will be necessary to ensure that all veterans get the care and treatment they deserve -- whether their wounds are hidden or not.

    Written by Paul Rieckhoff who is a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom and the Executive Director and Founder of IAVA (Iraq & Afghanistan Veterans of America), the country's first and largest Iraq Veterans group. IAVA is a non-partisan, non-profit organization headquartered in New York City.

    Rieckhoff is a nationally recognized authority on the war in Iraq and issues affecting troops, military families and veterans. His critically-acclaimed memoir, Chasing Ghosts was recently publilshed by Penguin.

    Sharon, I found and read the link you referred to....thanks!

    I read one of Patrick Buchanon's books last year. I respect him a lot.

    Good reading for Grammie, Brandon, The Factor and other deficient thinkers:

    From a scientific standpoint, one of the silliest ideas ever invented by economists is that it's possible to do a valid "cost-benefit" analysis of harmful pollution, and a doubly-silly idea is that it makes sense to apply cost-benefit analysis to government regulation of trace-quantity toxic pollutant emissions, such as emissions of the chemical element lead.

    The problem is no one ever knows all the variables and consequences, and quantifying the mess is a crapshoot numbers game usually played with loaded dice.

    Does that deter the Bush administration? Absolutely not. In its consistent efforts to bushwhack the American public, the Bush administration has put in place as "White House czar of regulation," the infamous Friedmanic economist Susan E. Dudley, pro-business-
    contra-life Czarina of Sophomoric "Cost-Benefit" Analysis of Regulations, wife of conservative economist Brian F. Mannix, the husband a political appointee of the Environmental Protection Agency. It's no surprise that upon her appointment, Dudley received a letter of congratulations from the National Association of Manufacturers. As of April 2007, Dudley is the top regulatory official at the White House.

    Scientists these days are again worried about the element lead, and about how the new Czarina Susan E. Dudley may wreck current controls of lead emissions. Lead is an element of high toxicity to the developing nervous system of children, toxic in extremely low concentrations. There is presently no scientific bases for a threshold -- no one knows the level below which lead is safe for the developing nervous system.

    The effects of lead on children are easy to state: Lead makes your children stupid. That's YOUR children, not children on Mars, your children as they breathe the air inside and outside your urban or suburban house, your children as they walk to school, as they walk in the mall, as they run around a basketball court, as they stand outside your house selling lemonade or cookies for the Girl Scouts. If you want brain-damaged kids, expose them to the element lead: the more lead they get, the more brain-damaged they will be.

    The chemical symbol for the element lead is Pb (from the Latin plumbum). Think of "Pb" as "Pollution babies".

    Do we need more pollution babies in this country?

    Lead mangles the development of the growing brain, sometimes in hidden ways and sometimes in obvious ways. We still know little about how it does what it does. It's one of the most poisonous neurotropic heavy metals. It makes no difference how the lead gets into the child's system -- air, food, water -- once inside it's highly toxic to the nervous system, especially to the developing nervous system. Individual children vary in their susceptibility to damage by lead, and we don't know yet who is susceptible and who isn't.

    The magazine Science reported last week (May 18, 2007) that the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the White House are "reviewing" the current ambient air quality standard with respect to lead and expect to have a new and less stringent standard in place by the end of next year.

    So this is another song-and-dance number in the Bush conservative vaudeville act: Hail, hail, the gang's all here, we're pro-business, we're contra-life, God bless America, sis-boom-bah!

    Susan E. Dudley is a dangerous anti-regulation, contra-life conservative and she needs to be carefully watched by the media.

    In the past, Dudley has called attempts by the EPA to keep arsenic out of drinking water "an unwelcome distraction".

    She has opposed attempts to lower the levels of disease-causing smog. She says smog is beneficial and asthmatic children should just stay indoors.

    She has opposed automobile air-bag regulations.

    She believes consumers are too irrational to have a right to know about toxic hazards.

    Consumers irrational? But she also argues that consumers should be able to choose the efficiency of their household appliances, rather than have the government set energy efficiency standards.

    No matter what, the Dudley twist is on: The less regulation the better, no matter the public injury.

    If Milton Friedman believed that corporations have no social responsibilities, Susan E. Dudley evidently believes the federal government also has no social responsibilities.

    So why is she collecting taxpayer money in salary? Does she work for the public or for the National Association of Manufacturers?

    In any case, she's a nice addition to the White House S.P.I. --Saboteurs of the Public Interest. Welcome to the Land of Oz.

    George W. Bush may be a know-nothing president and a national disaster, but he's not the only dangerous person in the current administration. This administration has in place a cabal of free-
    market-jungle radicals who apparently believe the ideal government is a representative corporatocracy. They are subversive anti-American long-range terrorists: they don't mind killing all of us over the long haul as long as their profits continue.

    They need to be exposed by the full light of the media -- not just occasionally but every day. Anyone in the federal government who works against the public interest needs to be exposed in a spotlight.

    And especially the new Czarina of Regulation, Susan E. Dudley.

    If not, then we're the idiots, not the people in the White House.

    bitch about your DoS attack after I come back, Bob Sucking Cox!

    I don't get the mindset of wanting to stay at a gathering after being thrown out by the host. What grown person thinks like that?

    It makes me wonder if we've made a false assumption that this person (or people) are adults.

    Instead of it just being a wisecrack about some teenager/s in his room with his computer, in this instance, might it REALLY be the case?
    Posted by: Cecelia at January 31, 2008 9:59 PM


    bitch about your DoS attack after I come back, Bob Sucking Cox!
    Posted by: THE SHOW IS ON! at January 31, 2008 8:23 PM


    I rest my case.