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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    June 15, 2007
    Today's Game: Where's KO?

    It's gonna be a l-o-n-g summer. I guess KO gets a lot of new vacation time, thanks to his new contract. I know there's not as much "news" during the next couple of months. And, honestly, it's not that I dislike looking at either Amy Robach or Allison Stewart (didn't she leave MSNBC for NPR?) A little freelance work for Allison, perhaps? Or, is MSNBC running out of "pinch hitters", thanks to the staffing cutbacks? I've been scanning the media sites, looking for some information on KO's time off and the replacements, but there seems to be very little chatter.

    Hey, it's not as if his audience crumbles when substitutes sit in. This week, Amy finished in third place Monday and second place Tuesday. We're talking 25-54 numbers, of course. Wednesday, Allison finished second, again.

    Still, it's just not the same with Keith's caustic attitude, no matter how hard the subs try. So, Mr. Olbermann, suck it up and come on home. By now, you've had plenty of time to tan, relax and read up on what's happening in Washington. That's your strength. Focus, Mr. Olbermann. Focus! I know the cute and funny segments will stay. Heck, I actually really enjoy "Soundbites of the Day" and "Worst Person in The World". I understand pacing and variety. It's all good.

    Well, ALMOST all good. There's this Paris Hilton story. Here's one fan who seriously hopes that we get the "old" Countdown back when you return, Mr. Olbermann. I believe it's time for you to put your editorial foot down and give us back our Countdown. Read your own Newshole Blog. The inmates are restless. A little Paris is enough. Mention it/her and move on. I don't care whether it's exclusive video from TMZ or Puppet Theatre. I've seen enough.

    So, come on home, Mr. Olbermann. Welcome back to the "big chair". Let's talk politics! And world events. Please.


    Posted by Doug Krile | Permalink | Comments (122) | | View blog reactions

    122 Comments

    Interesting piece. But actually Countdown finished tied for third (or tied for fourth, depending on how you look at it) on Tuesday, and third place on Wednesday in 25-54:

    http://insidecable.blogsome.com/category/ratings/

    I suppose that's good for Keith because it shows people want to see HIM. Though that's close to where he finished the last week he was on too. In any case, neither he nor his subs are showing that firm lock on second place as has been advertised. The season probably plays a role too.

    Johnny,
    I pulled the numberes from TVNewser. I guess the discrepancy is that mine are live and same day, so they skew a bit more favorable.

    Pace says he refused to quit voluntarily


    By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer 23 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON - In his first public comments on the Bush administration's surprise decision to replace him as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Marine Gen. Peter Pace disclosed that he had turned down an offer to voluntarily retire rather than be forced out.

    To quit in wartime, he said, would be letting down the troops.

    Pace, responding to a question from the audience after he spoke at the Joint Forces Staff College in Norfolk, Va., on Thursday evening, said he first heard that his expected nomination for a second two-year term was in jeopardy in mid-May. Defense Secretary Robert Gates on June 8 announced Pace was being replaced.

    "One thing that was discussed was whether or not I should just voluntarily retire and take the issue off the table," Pace said, according to a transcript released Friday by his office at the
    Pentagon.

    "I said I could not do that for one very fundamental reason," which is that no soldier or Marine in
    Iraq should "think — ever — that his chairman, whoever that person is, could have stayed in the battle and voluntarily walked off the battlefield.

    "That is unacceptable as a leadership thing, in my mind," he added.

    Pace, whose current term ends Oct. 1, said he intended to remain on the job until then. Navy Adm. Michael Mullen has been announced as
    President Bush's choice to succeed Pace, who is the first Marine ever to hold the military's top post.

    The decision to drop Pace has fed the political debate in Washington over the Iraq war. On Thursday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (news, bio, voting record) caused a stir when he said Pace had failed in his job of providing Congress a candid assessment on the war. Democrats typically have shied from stinging comments about military officers, instead focusing criticism on Bush and administration policies in Iraq.

    Asked for comment on Reid's statement, a spokeswoman for Pace, Marine Col. Katie Haddock, said Pace "is focused on his duties as chairman and is not going to respond to press reports on who's saying what. He will let 40 years of service speak for itself."

    A Vietnam veteran, Pace indicated in his Norfolk comments that his experience in that war colored his decision not to quit voluntarily.

    "The other piece for me personally was that some 40 years ago I left some guys on the battlefield in Vietnam who lost their lives following 2nd Lt. Pace," he said. "And I promised myself then that I will serve this country until I was no longer needed — that it's not my decision. I need to be told that I'm done.

    "I've been told I'm done.

    "I will run through the finish line on 1 October, and when I run through the finish line I will have met the mission I set for myself," he said.

    Pace was vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs during the run-up to the Iraq war and during the early years of a conflict that has dragged on far longer than the administration foresaw. In October 2005 he succeeded Air Force Gen. Richard Myers as Joint Chiefs chairman, and until recently had largely been spared the war-related criticism that senior civilian officials attracted.

    The decision to sideline Pace came as a surprise, since Gates had previously indicated privately that he intended to recommend that the president re-nominate him. In his remarks in Norfolk, Pace confirmed that Gates had told him he preferred to keep him as chairman but in mid-May began to see signs of opposition on Capitol Hill.

    When he announced the decision last Friday, Gates said that after consulting with members of the Senate he concluded that sticking with Pace would risk a Senate confirmation struggle focusing on the Iraq War.

    "It would be a backward-looking and very contentious process," Gates said. At the same time, he made clear he had made his decision with reluctance, saying he wished it had not been necessary.

    "I am no stranger to contentious confirmations, and I do not shrink from them," Gates said. "However, I have decided that at this moment in our history, the nation, our men and women in uniform and General Pace himself would not be well served by a divisive ordeal. ..."

    In his remarks in Norfolk, Pace said Gates had accurately portrayed what transpired.

    "He brought me in the office and sat me down and said `Pete, this is what's happening. I want to re-nominate you. I want you to know that this is what I'm beginning to hear, this is what I'm going to go do, this is how I'm going to go do it.'"

    "He went out and did exactly what he said on television, and exactly what he's been saying in his interviews, which is he went out and pulsed various members of Congress and he heard back from them the things that he said that he heard," Pace said.

    At that point, Pace said, he assured Gates that he was willing to go through even a contentious confirmation process.

    "I also told him that what he needed to do, in my opinion, was what was best for the institution, and whatever he and the president decided was going to be best for the institution was what Pete Pace was going to do," he said. "Oh and by the way, I can read the Constitution, which says the president gets to nominate and the Senate gets to confirm, or not, and neither one of those two things is going to happen, therefore I'm not staying."

    Sounded like Ally is ticked. She couldn't even pronounce his name at the end. Poor Keithy!

    I have it on good authority that Keith was seen coming out of a gay bath house in the Haight - Ashbury district of San Fransisco at about 8:30 AM Pacific time. He was last seen headed to the airport. That means he will miss his show again tonight. Crap!

    Does 'good authority' mean you were there?

    And BTW, are there 'straight' bath houses?

    Just wondering...

    As a "journalist" I cannot reveal my sources. Don't know, I take showers.

    Olbermann called into the radio show today where he was taking his Child aka Girlfriend to the Zoo. That's what happens when you date 12-year olds. Anywho, he claimed to be walking hand-in-hand with her. Probably trying to keep her from running away. FYI: He and Patrick are going to be on the Late Show with Letterman on 6-27.

    Fair enough Dog Poopy!

    "So, come on home, Mr. Olbermann. Welcome back to the "big chair". Let's talk politics! And world events. Please."


    Oh, sure, Doug... You mean, you want to hear Olbermann do his yellow journalism black helicopter bit on illogical and groundless conspiracy theories involving the Administration in collusion with countless other national and local agencies...

    You want to discuss POLITICS as in the immigration bill, campaign strategy, or hash out the details of Valerie Plame's covert status, I suggest you watch Hardball, Brit Hume, Meet the Press or click over to Justoneminute.com or Kausfiles.com.

    I read in the papers that it's all but certain Norah O'Donnell is moving to CNN.

    Gee, another woman leaving the NBC mothership.

    What ever happened to that so-called comedy guy that use to sub for Keith? You know, the one that was as about as funny as Mo Rocca.

    sorry, that was Ms. Brown that was leaving the Mothership.

    Olby didn't like Brian Unger. He was a little bit too good doing that substitute job. Olby is easily threatened.

    Keith , being a stylish woman, will need the long weekend to remove his toe and nail polish.

    I saw he was trolling the zoo looking for even younger women to replace his rapidly aging teen-age girlfriend.

    he was walking hand in hand with her at the zoo.

    That he had to say that on the radio means there's trouble in 'Daddy Day Care Paradise'.

    Whats he doing showing up with Patrick on Letterman? Oh well, I wonder if Dave or Dan will mention that Olby is barred from the ESPN Campus in Bristol?

    Olby to rapidly aging teen-age girlfriend.

    Here honey, now you get in this long line here at the snack bar and when you get that 'Cotton Candy' for your fat ass sugar daddy. I'll be over trolling er, I mean hanging out in the Petting Zoo with that 8th grade class field trip.

    I thought the same thing: anytime you have to repeatedly say how much you love someone, there's trouble in that relationship.

    I read somewhere that Olbermann was friends with Bob & Marika Tur (from his days in LA), so would have known Katy since she was a kid. It's so Woody Allen-like, its just kind of creepy. Maybe its a New York thing. (Definately a guy thing.)

    Olbermann seems to mention her when "stuff" is in the "gossip" pages. When the Karmabites thing was in page six, he never shut up about her.

    Although, it was kind of funny hearing Dan Patrick go on and on about Jessica Alba (age 26), it must drive him nuts that Olbermann goes home to his own 23 year old.

    This thread is about speculating regarding Olbermann's whereabouts. I can assure you dear Name that one place he is NOT is in Iraq.

    For the sake of argument, I'll use tvnewsers ratings for this post.

    The week of June 4th-8th, KO finished 2,3,4,3 (omitting Tues June 5 due to the debate on CNN which skewed ratings). He averaged 231 in the demo.

    Ratings data for June 11-15 is not fully avainlable on tvnewser for some reason, just info is available for 11-13, and as Doug alluded, CD finished 3,2,2 the first three days, averaging 195 in the demo.

    Personally, I don't see, comparing these two weeks, where this is good news for KO. Contrary to glowing media "reports" CD's ratings have been stagnant or decreasing for some time now (far from a stranglehold on 2nd as is so often claimed, CD often struggles to hold on to 3rd lately). The fact that there is little change when KO is gone to me says that people don't really care who hosts the show.

    nobody cares, first you call our troops "fools" then you claim to respect them, confused, indeed. Thanks Bob!

    Scott
    You're 100% right about your last sentence! It is NOT a good sign that the Hour Of Spin's ratings can basically stay the same or are just a little off when KO is not there! It's really the writers who are making the host. This is so easy to see just when watching any sub host. Olby is simply a reader and definitely not a journalist and I really wonder if he has any input at all as to what is going on.
    I think the chances are that we might see Bath Tub Boy quit in the next few months or at least take more time off. If I were him and looked at the ratings when he wasn't there I'd be pretty depressed as it's obvious the show can easily go on without him and not suffer much at all.

    You say that "you'd have to be a fool to go to Iraq" and then turn around and claim you respect for the troops and reporters there? Twisted logic much there with that statement? Yeah, we know your beloved Olby is too chicken-shit to venture out into any field that doesn't involve baseball or children playing so he can cruise for his next underage girlfriend but insulting reporters brave enough to go there, and our troops is a new low, even for you "Name".

    And on a non-related topic, CNN is rumored to be thinking about moving Lou Dobbs show to 8pm. If that's the case, the days of Olby's 'second in the key demo" (trademark: TVNewser) will be over and fast at that. That still probably won't keep the MSM (and his deluded fans like "name") from deeming his show a "ratings success" however.

    Jill Lawless......LOL! A music critic wannabe turned "journalist." Thanks for that, nobody cares!

    Keith isn't in Iraq. Keith has never been to Iraq. Keith will never go to Iraq. So why do the Olbyloons keep posting articles about Iraq in a thread speculating about Olbermann's whereabouts this week?

    Olbyloons use ex-sportscasters and music critics and comedians for sources of their "truth". What a joke you people are.

    By the way is Olby still on the playground scoping out his next pre-teen girlfriend?

    Nothing could be lamer than the left's insistence that Olbermann (ex sports caster), Rosie O'Donnell (lesbian nut case), Jon Stewart (comedian), and Bill Maher (comedian) speak the "truth" and are reliable "news" sources.

    posted by:10:57

    Spot On Dude!

    Just look at those four names, and this is what the far-fringe left runs to for their daily dose of kool-aid?

    Need we say more!

    Prime Minister Tony Blair committed British troops to Iraq even though he despaired at the failure of the United States to plan adequately for the aftermath of the invasion, a newspaper reported Sunday. (AP)

    Did you also read that Bush told Blair he could support in other ways than sending troops? I'll get you the link or cut and paste, if necessary. Did Bush make Blair commit the troops?

    "Rarely post any news of substance?" Probably because this site is called Olbermannwatch and despite the lunatics attempts to turn it into Bushwatch or warwatch or whatever the hell their little pet peeve is of the day, in the end, it's still a board about Keith Olbermann. Jesus are you people really that fucking stupid? Yeah, never mind, we all know you are. Read the name of the board stupid!

    And unless Olby is up Blair or Bush's ass this week, these little news articles were all off-topic, yet again.

    Not every poster here supports this war. I know I haven't from the start. I knew it would be a disaster and I've been proved right about that. But the narrow little minds of the Olbyloons prove over and over again that they can't expand their narrow little mindsets to incorporate things that don't go along with their belief system. No matter how many times some of us it say it here, (that we either don't support the war, or certain Bush policies, you all continue to insist we do because you can't wrap your tiny little simple minds around the truths. So instead, you still insist the following:

    If you don't like Keith Olbermann, you must love Fox News. Reality? Nope, I seldom watch it in fact. I just think that Olbermann is a biased, egotistical asshole who should have his program relabeled as "opinion" because that's what it is. The worst offenders on Fox do in fact have the Opinion tag on their show but not Keith. I can just imagine the uproar from the left if O'Reilly tried to renamed his show a "news" program.

    If you don't love Olby, you must love Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Michele Malkin: Reality? No, no, and no again.

    If you don't like Olby, you must support the war. Reality: No, again, not true. But I refuse to rejoice in the slaughter of people over there and see it as some sort of repudiation of Bush like you loons do. I have relatives there and I want them to return soon as possible, but I don't want to see the war funding cut off because I'm not really sure what they'd use for bullets, etc. if funding were cut off. Cutting funding for the war is another simple-minded liberal plan to de-arm our troops while they are surrounded by their enemies. That's the Olbyloon answer to all our war problems.

    Posting article after article about the war will magically convert every Republican here into a Democrat. Reality? Like hell.

    Posting article after article about the war will magically convert every Republican here into an Olbyloon/Olbylover. Reality? When Pigs Fly.

    RE: The Ratings. The one thing I neglected to include in my original post was the fact that holding steady in summer ratings is not exactly a bad deal, particularly with substitute hosts. Many local stations deal with only four ratings periods a year...February, May, July, November. And they usually ignore the July numbers because summer viewing habits aren't consistent with the other months. People are outside, on vacation, just not viewing television. And, those trends are particularly apparent in the younger viewers. So, I'd say that MSNBC isn't too worried about Countdown's summer performance. We'll talk again in the fall.

    I'm not a politican. I'm not supposed to have answers to the war. And at least I'm not simple-minded enough to think posting article after article about how badly the war is going is going to change a damn thing like the unnamed Olbyloons at this site. You revel in every bomb that explods over there. You see it as further proof as how bad Bush is as a president. I wonder if Clinton had gotten us into the war what you'd be saying? Or if a Democrat was in the WH instead? Your incredibly simplistic world view makes it easily understood why you're such a big fan of Olbermann's: no critical thinking skills whatsoever.

    P.S.--don't see you offering up any solutions either--just criticisim. And the ever popular, "we can just all leave at one time" BS idea.

    You have to wonder how big of a idiot is a person who can't post their name.

    But really when you look at it, in the kool-aid world your nothing but a number, and since you can't count.........

    Besides my local paper uses a lot of AP stories Edward R. Moron and I know left leaning bird cage liner when I see it.

    I use many sources, unlike some morons who just use AP. But then again it gets back to that kool-aid thing

    Oh and I can name call with the best of you since at one time I was one of you.

    And then I began to think and ask questions instead of copy and paste.

    So I read what you copied and pasted, the difference? You went running into the streets like chicken little yelling the sky is falling and I went to other sources for balance.

    single-digit idiot.

    By the way, kool-aid kid, what happen to your buddy Sam Sedar?

    Look I can change the subject, just like you.

    I guess the bow-tie didn't work. He still lost his two listeners. And his dopey show on dead-brain-air. Oh gee no more Keith for you Sam! LO F'n L!

    And while were at it, why does that Maddow goof-ball dress so conservative when she comes on Dopey's show?

    Trying to pull the wool over somebody's eyes?

    No, that trick works with single digit copy and paste crowd. Who watches the same shit from the same 3rd place has-been every night!

    But then again, what do you expect from a fool?

    So copy and paste all you want! Oh and do your dopey little name calling too!

    It's all you got and it's all your ever have.

    Because if you copy and paste it means you didn't read it. It means somebody told you (because you can't think for your-self) and you can't create your own argument.

    It's that 1984 thing nim-rod.

    We live in the real world and think for our-selves.

    And since you like to change the subject loser let me ask you this question. Did you ever have to make a decision in your life?

    Or did you always need somebody to come over and tell you when the fries were done?

    We know you can't follow along with the program because at the top of the page it's Doug, talking about about Keith.

    Doug I don't agree with, but I respect.

    You and your kind? YEAH! You and your kind? I crap bigger than you!

    In fact maybe if you go s**t your-self a twin sister, between the both of you. You might come up with a thought. I'm not saying a clue, that would be too much to ask.

    Gee, some adult A.D.D.? no surprise since your probably are a product of the Public School Indroctrination system.

    Gee, a classic looney left falling off the table boring trick, CHANGE THE SUBJECT.

    THIS JUST IN 5 MINUTES AGO: But we knew this for years. Your an idiot. And Hillary hopes there's enough of you for her village.

    JACKASS!

    Now breaks over, go flip some burgers.

    Oh and getting this whole thing back on subject, if you can follow along for more than two seconds.

    What ever happen to that 'FIRM GRIP' on second place for your boy?

    I know the person behind you doesn't have an answer so just go into the name calling. It's all the far-left, off the table, out where the buses don't run, single-digit, 1984 mindless, skulls full of mush for ever, can't think for themselves. You have to watch and drink the kool-aid from a third place has-been Ted Baxter can't be.

    You know, come to think of it, 9-11 crazies bring more to the table. And at least I can have fun with them.

    I don't give a f**k who you are!

    I don't give a f**k what your name is.

    I don't give a f**k what you copy and paste. Because you probably don't even know what the f**k you just pasted.

    Now why don't you go hang out with your buddy Average Clinton C**k Sucker. If he ain't too busy out back behind the nudie booth.

    This just in!!!!!!!

    Former DEMOCRAT Jersey GOV-turned Episcopalian seminarian James "KNEES" Mc Greevey says his estranged wife's book is tanking not because of comments he made about her, but because it's DULL. Unfortunately, unlike Jimmy's page-turner, she was unable to regale her readers with exciting tails of action at the Turnpike rest stops.

    You know if, and thats the key word here 'IF' you could think instead of copy and paste. Maybe you could come up with stuff like.

    President Bush would like to pass immigration reform before his watch is over. The only problem is his watch is over in Albania.

    Oh wait, that probably went over your head, try this one.

    You know you should really try to get past your hate for the President. I would figure that the left would be on board with George with this immigration deal.

    Yeah, if you put your single digit mind together with his, the both of you would probably say, "there can't be that many aliens from outer space."

    But than again all you can do is copy and paste.

    I am not a usual watcher of Hannity but I did catch some of his Sunday night show tonight. I didn't follow the war vote well at the time and just tonight learned that Hillary Clinton voted against the Levin Amendment, which would have required Bush to go back to the U.N. Security Council before sending the military to Iraq. I though she approved war as a last resort? She also didn't read the full intelligence report. I guess the reason she didn't know then what she knows now is because she didn't bother to read.

    There is nothing moronic about Brandon's position of being against the war but not wanting to leave just yet. Didn't you hear Colin Powell? You break it, you own it? Would you call Powell a moron? No matter what you feel about the war, the forces are there until a decision is made some time after September. Nothing is going to change that.

    U.S set to lift Palistinian Embargo

    The A.P. said so

    Dragster's Fatal Tricks Questioned

    The A.P. said so

    Sarkozy Party Wins, But Not In Landside.
    (but a few lines down they say his party will find little resistance, go figure or huh?)

    The A.P. said so

    Disbarred Duke Prosecutor's Future Dim

    The A.P. said so (you couldn't figure that out on your own?)

    New Jersey on pace to reach record for 200 bank roberies in 2007.

    The A.P. said so. Wait how can that be? The liberal paradise that the Garden state is. It's been run by Democrats for years? Why would anybody need to rob a bank?

    No! No! No! The A.P. said so!

    It's time to flip the burgers

    You're shift manager said so.

    You're gona do some praying for me boy, and you better pray good!

    Former New Jersey Democrat Luv-Gov. turned Episcopalian seminarian James "Knees" McGreevey said so.

    Keith Olbermann the most trusted man in news.

    Some third rate hack at Rolling Stone.

    Bulls-Eye Sharon!

    Some third rate hack at Rolling Stone said so.

    It's getting late

    I'm like, sooo pathetic that I have to respond to my own rants.

    It's getting late

    Sharon,

    You break it you own it? Bull! Nice phrase for a gift-shop in Central Florida, but boys are dying for that pithy phrase.

    Not that you and your neocon friends care...

    Olbermann featured on the cover of The Sporting News. It appears that readers of the magazine do not appreciate KO being a football anchor at NBC:

    http://register.sportingnews.com/subscriptions/index.html?sourceid=subscribe

    Not that you and your neocon friends care...

    Posted by: blindrat at June 18, 2007 10:05 AM

    assrat, our boys are dying at the hands of YOUR people!

    No, son...

    Bush is yours. Don't try to palm that incompetent off on us, child...

    A man admits that he screwed up. There isn't a man in the republican party...

    The savages killing our troops are muslims. Blindrat is a muslim, just too ashamed to admit it which says a lot. She would rather point the finger at President Bush which is easier than accepting any responsibility on his own part. One would think people like assrat (muslims) would speak out against the atrocities the muslims are responsible for, but, it won't happen. In essence, they (muslims) are condoning their daily cold blooded murders.

    Poor rk,

    Got nothin'. Reduced to "accusing" people of being members of unpopular religions rather than face the fact that his boy is an imbecile who lied us into a war that he cannot win.

    I'm curious, son. How DO you think Bush could win the Iraq war?...

    Nice phrase for a gift-shop in Central Florida, but boys are dying for that pithy phrase.

    The phrase is from Colin Powell, not me.

    Sharon,

    I'm distressed that you'd admit to PARROTTING such a stupid statement...

    Wait a minute! I know why some people don't post names. Any idiot can hijack a name.

    Boy am I stupid!

    Bush is like Jesus to me-better than Jesus. Jesus was a PUSSY teaching love and tolerance. As a matter of fact, I HATE Jesus!

    Threats of violence over the net, uh?

    Someone else said you need help, Laura.
    You REALLY, REALLY do need professional mental help.

    Oh! Wait a minute! The reason that they cannot end the war is because Bush and the Republicans keep obstructing their efforts. My mistake. What a pussy dope I am!

    Laura is back in her cage!

    Let's see Bob (sucking) Cox trying to ban me for posting:

    pussy
    shit
    penis
    ass
    pussy-assed
    pussyassed
    HATE
    Jesus
    piece of shit
    pussy
    dope

    And that's just for today, in one thread.

    Thanks, Bob!

    I'm curious, son. How DO you think Bush could win the Iraq war?...

    Posted by: blindrat at June 18, 2007 1:00 PM

    One word, MOAB! Mother Of All Bombs, for those of you that don't know. Assrat, you can beat around the bush all you want about being a muslim, it's obvious you are ashamed of what you are.

    So...

    You're saying that Bush is lying about wanting to "liberate" the Iraqis from Saddam? I agree with you, boy...

    Sadly, we cannot use radioactive oil any more than anyone else. So, your "strategy" would be laughed out of any liberal or conservative discussion of the matter.

    But, keep on trying, son...

    Blindrat,

    I didn't "parrot" in the sense you mean but quoted Powell in response to the argument you made that it is moronic for Brandon to have disagreed with going to war but disagrees (or at least questions) withdrawing in defeat.

    Sharon,

    I simply feel that the "you break it, you bought it" attitude is the same as "We're stuck in a deep hole...let's dig our way out"...

    Here I go again, promoting "A Soldier's Perspective" but the early posts are just worth the effort of reading. They were much more personal, like the one below. Now they focus on current events. If you go to the link, you can see the picture for the full effect: (CJ's posts are a mixture of the toughness of war blended with humor) http://www.soldiersperspective.us/2005/01/
    under The Map

    "Okay, so the story of the map. First, some background:

    Part of my job is that I exploit enemy documents for any intelligence value. During the war, it was my distinct pleasure to search dead for any information they may have been carrying on them. As soon as a battle was over, I'd take a team and go through the pockets, personal effects, and buildings of the enemy trying to establish an identity, affiliation, and/or who else was involved. I'm not your run of the mill intel nerd. I'm a tactical intel nerd. I am on the front lines fighting the fight with whomever I'm attached to at the time. For the first week of the war I was with 3/7 Cav as they blazed a trail for the rest of the 3rd ID. Then I moved to 4/64 Armor battalion for a feint operation to draw the Iraqi military from Karbala and Hilla. Then I moved to 1/64 Armor for the "Thunderruns" into Baghdad. Once in Baghdad, I was attached to 3/15 Infantry to clean up and regular presence patrols. I stayed with them when we transferred to Fallujah.

    When we got Baghdad, there was no shortage of information to sort through. The worst part was searching the guys that had obviously been dead awhile. You cannot understand the sights and smells of combat until you've been through it. The smell of a decomposing human body is one that will never leave my nose. The site of one will never leave me mind. Picking through the pockets of one to find out why he was shooting at us or why he had so many RPGs in the trunk of his car is an experience I hope I never have to relive.

    After every mission, the leaders would bring my team and me whatever documents they thought were of intelligence value. One day, I got an urgent call from the S2 (battalion intelligence officer) that some maps had just come in and I needed to go over them immediately. I rushed up to the makeshift office, took whatever information they had, and went back to my area to begin the tedious process of going through hundreds of papers and maps. I went immediately to the map in question and stopped cold as I began to open it up. For those that aren't too indocrinated about how the Army works, officers are commissioned after completing college degrees. Usually, they are commissioned through military academies or ROTC programs. Sometimes, they branch over from enlisted guys to officers (a program called green to gold). So, the majority of second lieutenants (the lowest officer ranking) are children, no older than 22 years old most of the time. As soon as they graduate college they are placed as platoon leaders in charge of anywhere between 15-40 soldiers. It's the job of the platoon sergeant to properly train the platoon leader on military matters and assist with leadership decisions. At times, we also help change their diapers.

    The story goes that as the patrol was clearing an area a man took off running. As he ran from the patrol, he dropped a map. The platoon leader picked it up and brought it in for me. I looked at the map and instantly began formulating how I would deal with this "important" information. I went back and told the S2 what we had and asked if he could get the Lieutenant (LT) to come in immediately. He was on patrol but would be able to come in about an hour. As we waited, I got my team together and briefed them on their jobs during the meeting: We needed someone to take detailed pictures of the map, someone to agree profusely and sternly to everything I said, and someone to apply the pressure. I would ask the questions.

    When the lieutenant was brought it, I assembled my team, the S2 and the S3 (operations officer). I laid the map out on the table and asked the LT if he recognized it. His eyes lighting up, he answered, "yes, that's the map that guy dropped as he ran off."

    I asked him to tell me in exact detail where he was when the map was found. Where was the guy running from? Where did he think he was headed? What did the guy look like? Did he have any other maps on him that he could see? How old was he? Would he be able to get there again? Were there other people around? Did they see the man drop the map? Does he know what this thing is?

    He answered everything he could and I pulled out one of our tactical maps and laid it beside the map he brought in. I showed him how certain lines on his map corresponded with our entry routes into the city. One box represented Baghdad International Airport (at the time, we called it Bush International Airport after removing Saddam from the name. That didn't last long.). Some of the circles around the routes represented underground bunkers where chemical munitions were being stored. I explained the significance of all the markings on the map he gave me. Then I said, "and the one thing that really told me exactly what we were dealing with is this." I unfolded the top right hand corner that I had previously wanted hidden during my oration. Unfolding the corner, I read "Pattern #326" and the name of the dress pattern for a little girl. After wasting about 35 minutes of the LT's time explaining what he had brought me, his face turned bright red as he realized that his "map" was actually a sewing pattern!!

    Everyone in the room burst into laughter, something you could tell everyone was trying hard to avoid throughout my entire presentation. And we made sure that we got it all on film."

    The Man from Butterick strikes again!!!

    blindbat, you just proved to me again (like I needed more proof) you're ashamed of being a muslim by your diversion. How can you practice a religion you are ashamed to admit being part of? Can you answer that?

    rk,

    Give the Muslim thing a rest, son. I'm not responding because it is childish and irrelevant. If I was a devout Muslim, I suppose I would argue whatever point you are failing to make, child...

    Maybe you should address the points that I make, boy. Makes you look like a coward when you change subjects like that...

    Blindrat,

    The troops WILL BE THERE through September and however long it takes to analyze, debate etc. the report of the status of the surge (which only now is reaching its capacity). Support their efforts until then! Be proud of their successes (yes they do have them). Be happy when soldiers help some Iraqi family through a crisis. There are good stories posted. Maybe they pale in comparison in your opinion to other news. You are not helping them by continual telling them their efforts are wasted.

    Nicely put, Sharon.

    Sharon...yes, there are a few feel good stories coming out of Iraq. But last time I checked "help[ing] some Iraqi family" isnt quite worth the rest of the damage, destruction, and debstabilization we've brought to that area. 3527 dead as of today...thats only the official U.S. soldiers that have died. Then add the number of blackwater troops(estimated at a thousand or more), then the number of Iraqi's we've killed(reported minimum is 65,411 dead and a max of 75,000). Wow, I'm sure glad that we halfway built a few schools and helped a family or two. Those other 69,000 people are/were really worth it.

    Oh yeah, not to mention that the Iraqi parliment and people want us out. I dont know the exact definition of the word...but an unwated occupancy of a country sounds alot like an invasion, not "helping".

    Just some food for thought...9/11 could have happed 23 times for the amount of deaths that we are responsible since we INVADED Iraq.

    I might not be helping them do their job over there by telling them their efforts are wasted (what exactly are we trying to do over there anyways?) but what I am doing is helping them get out of there by telling my congressmen(all the politicians from my state are white, christian, males), and the rest of the country that the war in Iraq is worthless and we're only causing more problems by being there. We need to get out.

    BRING THE TROOPS HOME. Leave the no-bid contractors. Let them have their money.

    Sharon,

    I work for the military. I support them every work day; moreover, I know people that are either over there or over and back...

    I work for the military. I support them every work day; moreover, I know people that are either over there or over and back...

    Posted by: blindrat at June 18, 2007 6:21 PM

    blindbat, is this how you "support" our troops? By defending the enemy all day long on a blog? Pathetic.

    Oh no eveyone!.....Keith Olbermann's NEXUS OF POLITICS AND TERROR strikes again....

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/06/exclusive_suici.html


    ###
    Oh yeah, and The White House press was evacuated today because of a perceived threat by the administration.....

    (Breathless pause)

    Is all of this FEAR news put out their by this diabolical administration to distract us all from.....

    The AG scandal?
    The Libby pardon possibility?
    The RNC e-mail investigation?
    Bush's return to alcohol abuse?

    (Dramatic stare)

    Mmmmmm? Maybe we will be informed on COUNTDOWN tonight! Dum, dum, dummmm.

    And this is my post today, the 1,510th day since the declaration of Mission Accomplished in Iraq.....

    I am cee, good night and good luck.

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration's policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    "Lefties: Leave these pathetic drowning rats alone to stew in each other's juices. Get yourselves out in the street and fight this criminal administration in ways that really mean something, and that are noted by more than a handful of keyboard heroes!" Sir Loin of Beef

    "American liberals need to face these truths: The demand for self-government was and remains strong in Iraq despite all our mistakes and the violent efforts of al Qaeda, Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias to disrupt it." DEMOCRAT Bob Kerrey

    "If we end up saying that because these people are committing these acts of terrorism in Iraq or Afghanistan, that we shouldn't have done the removal of Saddam or the removal of the Taliban, then we are making a fundamental mistake about our own future, about security, about the values we should be defending in the world." TONY BLAIR

    The savages killing our troops are muslims. Blindrat is a muslim, just too ashamed to admit it which says a lot. She would rather point the finger at President Bush which is easier than accepting any responsibility on his own part. One would think people like assrat (muslims) would speak out against the atrocities the muslims are responsible for, but, it won't happen. In essence, they (muslims) are condoning their daily cold blooded murders.

    Posted by: royalking at June 18, 2007 12:45 PM

    blindbat, speaking of not addressing points, you never addressed these points. None of them. It's obvious why you didn't.

    blindbat, the fact you are a muslim is VERY relevant. Deny and divert as you wish.

    blindbat, my mistake to use the word "deny." You've never denied being a muslim.

    The reason why I keep bringing up A Soldier's Perspective is because it is a web site from a legitimate source who provides an opposing view from that of Blindrat and others. There are numerous other links to websites as well. Additionally, the older posts from the archives are simply good reads, all with the military backdrop but from a very gifted writer. The newer posts elicit responses about current issues. They are good also, but more provocative and less personal. There are a few different contributors.

    I don't doubt what you are saying, Blindrat. I don't agree with calling the mission worthless while it is a guarantee men will not be coming home now.

    STO, there is more good news than what you admit. Does it drown out the bad? How can lives lost ever be drowned out? And everyday under the regime of Saddam, people died. They were tortured. They lived in poverty while he lived in palaces on their stolen money. The streets were safer but where was the hope? Why did so many come out to vote during the elections? This sectarian violence is the hope of the insurgents. People HAVE come together because there are mixed marriages of Shiite and Sunni. They of course are targeted for assassination. I completely agree that if the Iraqis don't stand up for their country, then it is a bleak picture. They have been brutalized for so long and have been duped they the U.S. is the enemy. If there is a significant withdrawal before they have even a chance, then we will leave a broken people. There are more than a few stories of soldiers helping the Iraqis. They don't receive any attention unless you look at the milblogs.

    don't doubt that Blindrat works for the militray, knows people in it

    Did you see this story Sharon,

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/18/eveningnews/main2946007.shtml

    The ending was of great impact to me....

    "Later at the hospital, Lt. Jason Smith brushed teeth and helped clean up the boys. He and his wife are both special education teachers, and he was proud to tell her what the soldiers had done.

    "'She said that one day was worth my entire deployment," Smith said. "It makes the whole thing worthwhile.'"


    ###
    Yeah, the US troops are on a "worthless" mission according to some.

    Thanks, Cee, a very moving story. We both know there are countless others. Our soldiers deserve so much more credit than they receive. Even though they don't get that credit, they do it anyways. You know that the soldiers who came upon that scene were meant to be in that time and place.

    "And everyday under the regime of Saddam, people died."
    Yeah, true, but its really funny that the Iraqi people, in a poll, stated that they overwhelmingly felt safer when Saddam was in power.

    "They lived in poverty while he lived in palaces on their stolen money."
    Been to Africa lately? We send care packages to the countires down there run by war lords and they just steal them, leaving the country to die...Do we invade them to "help"?

    Saying that the Iraqi people came out to vote means that they were happy about the democracy brought is moranic. They went out to vote because they could. They finally had a say in their countries politics, they has nothing to do with safety.

    They "have been duped they the U.S. is the enemy."
    Well, if a country lied about why they needed to take my ruler from his post, over-stayed their welcome, killed at least 65,000 citizens of my country, then tried to capitalize on my oil fields...all in the name of Democracy brought by a country in which Democracy does not actually work...I would think they were the enemy too

    And cee, on that story...Our mission over there isn't to go over and help the people. It was to stop Saddam from having WMD's, or was it to capitalize the Oil fields, or is it to bring Democracy to the region, or was it to have a starting point for the war on terror? I can never keep track of todays reason for invading Iraq.

    and Cee, about that story...It happened a week ago...in a GOVERNMENT RUN ORPHANAGE...Go Iraqi Democracy. Its a good thing we brought our government to them. Next thing we know, they'll have a great Justice Department that will do all the bidding for the Sunni's and leave the Shiites out the dry...Oh America.

    I don't trust any poll in Iraq right now, no matter what the results. Awhile back, Bob quoted a poll (maybe the one you refer to) and when I looked at it, there was a disclaimer right in the introduction that there was no way to tell whether anyone polled was an insurgent or a supporter of the insurgency. As far as the rest of the talking points, they have been discussed over and over and over. The original point was that there will be no draw down of troops until well past September. Give the troops some encouragement for putting their lives on the line.

    The most recent report by your feeble administration is that the USA will have to be in Iraq until 2057.
    September ,

    ***
    Well, Bush will be out in 2008. Obama says he will have the troops out if elected. Hillary said that also, but then changed her mind and said because of our interests in the region, there will be a continued presence. 2057? If OW is still around, we could argue from the old folk's home if they are wireless by then.

    Doug, here is an interesting exhange that was on PBS News Hour in regards to opinion journalism (Not sure if you'll see this, since this thread has long ago been off topic and no one seems to be minding the store here at OW:

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/media/jan-june07/news_06-18.html

    "Doug, here is an interesting exhange that was on PBS News Hour in regards to opinion journalism (Not sure if you'll see this, since this thread has long ago been off topic and no one seems to be minding the store here at OW:"

    STC,
    Just happened to stop by and see how far the flame-throwing, off-topic, posters had gone. Thanks for the PBS link. Very good discussion about the topic. I skimmed it, but have it saved to spend some time with later. Good work!

    Doug

    nobody cares, news flash, we're at war and they volunteered.

    That's funny, I don't remember saying that I didn't care about the troops, oh yea, that's because I didn't say it! Typical olbyloon tactic.

    Hey, Royaldumbass just played the "we're at war and they volunteered" card! Any jerk who actually thinks like this DOESN'T care about the troops.

    You don't give a damn about the troops, and you just said it loud and clear Royaljerk!

    Well, Mike, reporting that Jeff/rk is a lying, troop-hating, war-mongering, ignorant racist is not exactly news, but it is good for all of us to remember that the voice for the Extreme Right Wing on this site is just that. Thanks. In many ways, he embodies the mission of this site.

    You loons reek of desperation something fierce. Do your mothers still lay out your clothes for you wear? Tie your shoes for you, too? Spoon feed you?
    How many welcome home parties have you loons attended? What's that? None? Why? Because you would get your asses pummeled the first time you opened your traps to a troop. I'm invited to more welcome home parties than I can attend. Why? Because I keep in contact with ALL of the troops families in my small community. When they come home, the partie's on me. Yea, I don't care for the troops. Speak for yourselves you Bush hatin', cheering everytime a troop dies, want us to lose the war, unpatriotic, dope smokin', tie die wearing hippies, Olbermahn loving losers!

    I think that we have another neocon bumper sticker here:

    "SUPPORT THE TROOPS: GO TO THEIR WELCOME HOME PARTIES"

    Hope you grow a dick some day, rk!

    RK: "we're at war and they volunteered".

    Tranlation: "Its' perfectly OK to send 18 year old kids who can't even buy liquor legally over to fight and die for 'us' in a totally unecessary war 6000 miles away that was started under false pretenses by selfish morons posing as responsible elected public servants".

    Its OK because they 'volunteered' to fight and die for nothing! It's OK because they are all of 18 years old and they should have it all figured out by now.

    Funny, Royaljerk claims I, a veteran, would get 'pummeled' for stating my views to a returning troop....Strange Royaljerk....I too know some troops who have just returned, and their views are far closer to mine than yours.

    "mike," to claim your views are closer to a troops views than mine is an outright lie. CJ ring a bell? The only troop near your views is headed for the Brig in the near future, thank God!

    rk,

    Wow! You claim to have a good idea of the real opinions of our soldiers and yet you also claim that if they admit to being against the war they will be put into the stockade?

    Am I the only one that sees the lack of logic in this boy's ignorant post?

    Yep, Royaljerk...'CJ' definitely rings a bell. The difference is that I respect him because he has shown respect for others with opposing views...and, like me, he is actually serving, or has served his country in the military...with you, there is nothing to respect.

    No "mike" the difference and point I was making (which went over your head) was CJ's views were night and day different from yours.

    Mike,

    CJ respects your view in the sense that he doesn't use vile language. Although he is on a temporary hiatus, he still owns A Soldier's Perspective and if you check, you will see in no uncertain terms how he feels about the idea that this war a loss. He still checks in via comments. If you read the early archives, you'll get some pictures and some great reading material.

    Jeff, nothing you could possibly say could "go over my head".

    CJ's views are different than mine....SO WHAT! CJ is ONE soldier out of several hundred thousand that have served in Iraq.

    Only a fool would believe that the views of "the troops" are in some way monolithic.

    Thanks Sharon....when I get some extra time. I will check into CJ's site. I have seen you mention it several times.

    I do respect both your's, and his views on the matter, even though I generally disagree.

    I also appreciate the way you have personally shown great empathy for plight of the individual soldier, which is something I have seen very little of from war supporters on this site.

    I don't think it is a fair comment to say there is a lack of empathy from those who disagree with you. Foul language is par for the course these days. Go to any public place with young children and you'll just cringe. People have become completely desensitized to language. That doesn't mean a lack of empathy. RK says that he goes to "Welcome Home" parties and stays in contact with serving members of his community. I believe him. Because he said they signed up they know what the are in for or something to that effect is probably something you'll hear from people in the military as well. Anyone who has enlisted since the public sentiment turned against the war really does know. Don't insult the intelligence of young people. Blindrat says he works for the government and knows people in the military. I believe him. You say you know people also. I believe you. I find CJ to be highly credible because he is in the public forum. Just google his name. He gets support from other milbloggers. When he conveys a more positive outlook, I believe him because he is not in the shadows. He is speaking from experience, publicly. He doesn't have to do that. He has not painted a completely unrealistic rosy picture about war, either.

    As I have been saying in my last couple of comments, they are NOT coming home until well after September. There will be analysis of the surge, debate, maybe vetos by the president. Pray for their success in the meantime. Acknowledge the good stories that do come out.

    From:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,284454,00.html

    "WASHINGTON — Republican House lawmakers pushed a plan Tuesday to enforce current immigration laws to solve the nation's illegal immigration problem, dismissing the Senate plan over their own.

    "I would rather have just the current law than have what the Senate has talked about," Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., told reporters at a press conference. "Ideally, you would have the current law plus the legislation we are proposing today. We want to stop the Senate amnesty bill in its tracks right now."

    King, the top Republican on the Homeland Security Committee, and Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Texas, King's No. 2 on the panel, are introducing an immigration reform proposal that would enforce current immigration law and tighten border security in response to the 12 million illegal immigrants currently living in the United States."

    I consider this as important as any issue facing us today because of the impact it has on everything from defense against terrorist attacks at home to the cost of social services and the impact on health care to the solvency of Social Security and Medicare on down the line.

    Grammie

    Sharon:

    It seems to me that the vast majority of the successes that are occuring mainly in places that we are getting cooperation with the Iraqi people. This "winning the hearts and minds of the people" is what, in my opinion, always was the ONLY way of 'winning' the aftermath of the invasion. Many have disagreed with me on this board regarding that point. They seem to think overwhelming force is still the answer.

    Many of us have concluded that "winning the hearts and minds of the people" has become an unattainable goal at this stage of the game....and that is the the origins of the so called 'defeatist' attitude.

    I have never personally understood what 'winning' this war would mean, how 'victory' would look, or how long such stablility would have to be maintained in order to claim ultimate 'victory'? It seems that so many on this board claim to want 'victory' without ever defining exactly what 'victory' is, or how we get there from here?

    My position is and always has been that if we end up sacrificing thousands of additional young American lives to end up with what ultimately appears to be a Shiite dominated theocracy anyway, where is the 'victory' in that? What will be said to all the families of those young men who lost their lives because the president refused to listen to the Iraq Study Group when the best minds in the country were advising him to do so? THAT is what seems like an unforgivable crime to me.

    You are right about the September revisitation of the war effort. But what if there is just enough perceived daylight to justify continuing the surge by the same ones who initiated the initial 'surge'? That is exactly what I think is going to happen. How many more would THEN be forced to die for the same end result. This could go on and on and on, you know.

    As for RK....and believing anything he says. I'm not going to call him a liar concerning his alledged returning vet parties, but I have no reason to accept anything he says at face value either. He has lied about me countless times on this board, including the hundreds of times he falsely accused me of posting under other names.....so don't expect me to show him the respect I would show others.

    Wow! You claim to have a good idea of the real opinions of our soldiers and yet you also claim that if they admit to being against the war they will be put into the stockade?

    Am I the only one that sees the lack of logic in this boy's ignorant post?

    Posted by: blindrat at June 20, 2007 1:21 PM
    blind sheik, being against the war and disobeying a direct order or worlds apart, which is what Watada is going to the Brig for. I don't think the military sends troops to the Brig for being against the war. How's the weather in your mosque, today?

    Mike,

    Initially, maybe going in with full force would have been more effective, maybe not. The reason why it wasn't done is because of the theory you are advancing: the plan was the win the hearts and minds of the people. That is what is being done all the time even now. There are countless stories of soldiers helping Iraqis, if you bother to look beyond places that give only the death toll. But when someone shoots at you, you have to shoot back. As far as RK, you have to know that whole issue is to rattle your chain. And it works. You continue to respond. If you read the last response to Blindrat and take away the insults (of which he is just as guilty) there is an argument there to debate. Maybe you just choose not to see that because of your disdain.

    Hi Doug, Glad you saw the link, I came across another interesting "report" from the BBC in which they figure out that they themselves--as a news organization--have a liberal bias. (It is an 81 page PDF file):

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/18_06_07impartialitybbc.pdf

    Although a conservative blog, Newsbusters did a decent job in it's summary of the BBC report:
    http://newsbusters.org/node/13602

    Sharon,all due respect, my whole issue is not to rattle anyone's chain. How is asking someone how the weather is an insult? I asked because yesterday he was complaining it was hot in his trailer. Haven't you seen the reports on Fox News (#1) about the muslim compounds in the remote parts of Virginia, Carolinas, Michigan and other states consisting of several trailers of all sizes grouped together sloppily with swamp coolers hanging out of every window, sheets and blankets for curtains, no power, showers or toilet facilities, etc? Thank God they are ALL under close surveillance.....

    Jeff, Sharon was giving you credit for being smarter than you act, but you just spoiled that illusion.

    RK,

    I guess I was thinking about blind sheik, but there is probably an explanation for the innuendo- I won't interfere with the ongoing fueds- just an observation- need to go-

    BTY, if you don't act now, the Arabian in the barn might convert the whole herd. I suggest you get yourself an AK47 and start shooting now, ask questions later.

    Posted by: Average American Patriot at June 20, 2007 6:54 PM
    No arabians in my barn, already have an ak. Several, in fact. All legal, by the way.

    STC, don't spoil it for the olbyloons, they actually think bbc is fair and balanced and a reliable source of "news." It's the Gospel to some of them! P.S. "mike" I know exactly what Sharon was saying, no need to interject.

    Bob,

    I have cut and pasted a few times the President's speech in January about the expectations of Maliki and an expectation of November for meeting benchmarks. I have also stated that I believe plans are in motion for a drawdown that is not being made public (for security reasons). I will gladly repose the relevant part of the speech.

    Concerning the court case, how about that? Our system of checks and balances worked! Bush is not a dictator! We can breathe easily.

    "Look how Sharon avoids mentioning what the man she has voted for TWICE has tried to do with our system of justice in this country."

    Poor Professor Honeydew will have to include FDR in his demogogic rantings.....he did much worse to thousands of more people than Bush but the courts in his day respected the power of the ELECTED executive in times of national security crisis....But the hack professor's lack of perspective, blind hatred and fear cause him to use a court case to villify the very man sworn to protect every American citizen....

    We'll see what the next ELECTED executive does when faced with the threat of terrorism that only requires one radical's success to kill or hurt thousands.....

    The current crop of liberal judges who have no responsibility in the security of our country can continue to rule with the same lack of perspective and knowledge of history...but when there is a failure in protecting the country ala 9/11 and people die.....well, that'll be just too bad.

    And this is my post today, the 1,511th day since the declaration of Mission Accomplished in Iraq.....

    I am cee, good night and good luck.

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration's policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    "Lefties: Leave these pathetic drowning rats alone to stew in each other's juices. Get yourselves out in the street and fight this criminal administration in ways that really mean something, and that are noted by more than a handful of keyboard heroes!" Sir Loin of Beef

    "American liberals need to face these truths: The demand for self-government was and remains strong in Iraq despite all our mistakes and the violent efforts of al Qaeda, Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias to disrupt it." DEMOCRAT Bob Kerrey

    "If we end up saying that because these people are committing these acts of terrorism in Iraq or Afghanistan, that we shouldn't have done the removal of Saddam or the removal of the Taliban, then we are making a fundamental mistake about our own future, about security, about the values we should be defending in the world." TONY BLAIR

    9/11 was a failure of both the Clinton and Bush administrations as supported by The 9/11 Commission.....

    Oh, and has there been another terrorist attack on The United States since 9/11?

    The "high priest" in action.....worth noting.

    True, every columnist makes a mistake or two under the pressure of an imminent deadline. But Broder's recent streak is a growing embarrassment for the Washington Post. A few of Broder's more spectacular inanities:

    Like President Bill Clinton after the Democrats lost control of Congress in 1994, Bush has gone through a period of wrenching adjustment to his reduced status. But just as Clinton did in the winter of 1995, Bush now shows signs of renewed energy and is regaining the initiative on several fronts. (Feb. 16, 2007)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    One of the losers in the weekend oratorical marathon was retired Gen. Wesley Clark, who repeatedly invoked the West Point motto of "Duty, Honor, Country," forgetting that few in this particular audience have much experience with, or sympathy for, the military. (Feb. 6, 2007)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Inaugural speech echoes Bush's conviction that the quest for freedom is a universal truth

    In his brief but eloquent inaugural address, President Bush dedicated the balance of his time in office to the same sweeping goals he set forth at the start of his first term -- the worldwide realization of the ideals of freedom and democracy. . . (Jan. 23, 2005)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    George Bush was re-elected by 51 percent of the people. His first significant action following Election Day was to retain Andrew Card, a Massachusetts-based business moderate, as his chief of staff.

    His second was to accept the resignation of John Ashcroft, the hero of the religious right and the favorite bogeyman of civil libertarians, as attorney general. Ashcroft's replacement, White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales, will receive close scrutiny from Democratic senators but almost all of them who commented said they welcomed the choice. . . (Nov. 14, 2004)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    But that does not account for either the emotional or the inertial forces that shape politics. At the personal level, it was clear in 2000 that more Americans liked Bush than his opponent, Al Gore.

    The same is true in Bush versus Kerry, reinforced this time by the powerful emotional bond formed between millions of Americans and their president in those scary days after the terrorists struck New York and Washington. . . . (Nov. 1, 2004)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Bush and Roosevelt were very much alike. In both of them, self-confidence was overflowing. As a counterpuncher to criticism and as a doubt-free exponent of his own beliefs, the current president is right up there with the inventor of the New Deal. (Aug. 7, 2003)

    Let me disclose my own bias in this matter. I like Karl Rove. In the days when he was operating from Austin, we had many long and rewarding conversations. I have eaten quail at his table and admired the splendid Hill Country landscape from the porch of the historic cabin Karl and his wife Darby found miles away and had carted to its present site on their land. (May 18, 2003)

    On top of this impressive heap, we have a series of pure idiocies uttered today on an interview with XM radio.

    Just a few facts from the ruling, that I skimmed and read parts of.

    This is his third 'day in court' in front of three separate courts.

    In the middle hearing he was given the opportunity to present any evidence that disputed the gov's labeling him an enemy combatant in addition to arguing the legality of a legal resident apprehended in the US for terrorism being subject to the military tribunals as an enemy combatant. He presented no evidence at that hearing.

    The majority opinion took note of this and very clearly stated that they were making no statement of his innocence nor were they setting him free.

    There was a virtually (the dissenting Judge agreed that the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals did have jurisdiction to hear and rule on the case) diametrically opposed dissenting minority opinion.

    With an appeal to the full court which will be followed by an appeal to the Supreme Court, by whatever side loses, he will have had at least five 'days in court' or possibly six if the Supremes consider it and send it back to the lower court with instructions.

    For a document and the system that it created to have been shredded and declared dead so often and so loudly by so many recently it sure seems to be not only alive and well but absolutely robust and doing exactly what it was designed to do and has done so well for over two hundred years.

    One man has gotten the full attention of our courts, our political systems, the press and citizens from every viewpoint on the spectrum. Al Marri is the only one in this particular situation but any final judgment will apply to him and any like him in the future. There will be no pitched battles in the streets, no military coups, no take overs by force of the Courts, the Legislature or The Executive by anyone.

    No matter on what side the decision comes down we will have those who applaud and those who scream opposition. And then we all will work our way through the differences and live with it.

    We have been fortunate beyond belief to be one of the smallest minorities in the world's history to have lived in our country and enjoyed its freedoms and blessings. Yet we are bombarded daily by cries and screams of Tyranny, Dictatorship, Fascism, Gulags, Despotism by those who obviously have absolutely no concept of the gruesome reality behind the words they so blithely use.

    Now that scares me.

    Grammie

    Oh, Doug! Say it isn't so....

    So TVNewser has finally posted CD's ratings for Thursday and Friday, and its not that good for your beloved KO....2nd Thursday, 2nd Friday.

    And on Monday, our hero KO returns to a triumphant......3rd place finish. Followed by a 4th place finish on Tuesday. What happened?

    Allison Stewart.....2nd, 2nd, 2nd.....

    KO......2,3,4,3...3,4......again, not good for KO that his "replacement" out performs him....isn't that what happened to Wally Pipp?

    In reality, what this shows is that MSNBC has a reliable audience of about 200k (demo) regardless of what's on, or when. Not that KO brings anything additional to the network, in fact, maybe he subtracts from the network's potential, based on the fact that Allison's ratings went up nightly, which would be indicative of more people finding out she is on, and not Keithy.


    NOW,,,,on a side note....WTF DOES THIS THREAD HAVE TO DO WITH IRAQ?....Not everything that is discussed has to do with Iraq...

    What's the name of that theory that every web forum discussion will eventually result in a Nazi reference? Maybe it needs updated.

    And all RK can do is go to his right wing smear sites and as usual, embarrass himself.

    Posted by: at June 21, 2007 12:48 AM

    Funny how olbyloons have a hard time dealing with facts. They resort to the "smear site" card.........very weak, to say the least.

    Thank you for your measured post at 1:10 AM Grammie....as usual you have done your homework.

    Screaming "King George," does not make one patriotic....standing up to power is more than rhetoric and blind affiliation to the mouth-piece that says they are the true defenders of the constitution as they repeat the same false accusations of constitution shredding.

    IF there were true violations worthy of criminal action by this current executive, I along with millions of my fellow cititzens, would be taking action through the appropriate and lawful avenues available to us by the constitution, to rectify the situation....

    There has not been, and the lack of ACTION by a large portion of this citizenry (even shown in the tepid changes in November 2006) continues to show that the demogoguery of the left is hollow.

    No veto-proof majorities were obtained by representatives of the left.....no leader has pusued policies that would actually stop King George from doing what he thinks is right for our country.....No impeachment hearings, no funds are being cut, no veto-proof legislation passed.....

    Instead we have the shreaks of radicals accusing a good man of impeachable crimes that deserve jail-time.....you goyt nothing professor.

    George Bush does not think of himself as dictator, he regards his role as EXACTLY what the founding founders intended in the executive. I am reassured he is there to check a very liberal court system that has destroyed this country since the 1970's and now he is a check on a ever radical and destructive legislature that intends to grow a federal entity WAY beyond what the good founder's wanted....

    Leftists disagree, always driven by their radical ideology that hates the freedoms awarded to the individual to pursue their dreams and instead rely on systems and programs that hold great power and influence over the economic and day-to-day lives of the population....This is creeping into healthcare, environmental, educational, religious and economic activity that once was not accepted by the federal entity. The sole important responsibility of the federal entity....collective NATIONAL security....is just an after-thought to the left and only a means to wield control and gain influence over those other areas. This sick and destructive ideology may indeed gain acceptance by many through clever propaganda and promises....but we have history to guide us on how the left manages society....they suck at it.

    So keep yelling incopetence, crime and punishment for Bush and those that support values now absent from the left....you may accomplish the ends you wish for but I will always know that those ends are ultimately wrong for people as based on the societies constructed before ours....powerful central governance in areas that should be taken care of by the responsible individual always leads to enslavement and loss of liberty. George Bush has never threatened me and my family with those tentacles, and I do not buy the lies spewed by his haters on this site that he has...He has tried to defend his country against a different and difficult enemy with the limits placed on him by the law and done it with a radical element calling him every name in the book. Opinions about his actions are many and supported well by the facts.

    And this is my post today, the 1,512th day since the declaration of Mission Accomplished in Iraq.....

    I am cee, good night and good luck.

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration's policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    "Lefties: Leave these pathetic drowning rats alone to stew in each other's juices. Get yourselves out in the street and fight this criminal administration in ways that really mean something, and that are noted by more than a handful of keyboard heroes!" Sir Loin of Beef

    "American liberals need to face these truths: The demand for self-government was and remains strong in Iraq despite all our mistakes and the violent efforts of al Qaeda, Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias to disrupt it." DEMOCRAT Bob Kerrey

    "If we end up saying that because these people are committing these acts of terrorism in Iraq or Afghanistan, that we shouldn't have done the removal of Saddam or the removal of the Taliban, then we are making a fundamental mistake about our own future, about security, about the values we should be defending in the world." TONY BLAIR


    Doug, another terrific article:
    http://www.nbc11.com/msnbcnews/13545427/detail.html

    Journalists Give Campaign Cash
    Bill Dedman, MSNBC

    Whether you sample your news feed from ABC or CBS (or, yes, even NBC and MSNBC), whether you prefer Fox News Channel or National Public Radio, The Wall Street Journal or The New Yorker, some of the journalists feeding you are also feeding cash to politicians, parties or political action committees.

    MSNBC.com identified 144 journalists who made political contributions from 2004 through the start of the 2008 campaign, according to the public records of the Federal Election Commission. Most of the newsroom checkbooks leaned to the left: 125 journalists gave to Democrats and liberal causes. Only 17 gave to Republicans. Two gave to both parties.

    Doug, just wanted to add this excerpt from the above article:

    Americans don't trust the news or newspeople as much as they used to. The crisis of faith is traced by the surveys of the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press. More than seven in 10 (72 percent) say news organizations tend to favor one side, the highest level of skepticism in the poll's 20-year history. Despite the popularity of Bill O'Reilly and Keith Olbermann, two-thirds of those polled say they prefer to get news from sources without a particular point of view.

    http://www.nbc11.com/msnbcnews/13545427/detail.html

    STC and all...
    Many good comments, although some are far off the point of my original post. Just a couple of notes that popped into mind on a couple of posts. Again, (andI know I'm repeating, but it may have been lost in the flood on long posts above) concerning summer ratings - you can't read too much into june, july, august numbers. People aren't in the house, watching TV. That's why the nets do re-runs. I'll even be generous and say that may be why Glenn Beck's numbers are in the toilet. About the MSNBC story concerning campaign contributions from journalists - that's one reason I've never done it. I tended to stay away from Primary elections where I had to pick a specific party to get a ballot for. Newspapers would love to point out that some of us were voting a specific way. So, we avoided primaries. Then, they complained that we weren't being good people since we weren't voting! Contributions are even trickier. I'd just point out that quite a few of the "journalists" they reported on are not political reporters. Still, the numbers do skew liberal and you'll find a post about it on my blog later tonight. As for the trust issue, that's a big one. I'm a bit surprised at the 2/3 figure quoted directly above. I'll be doing some more reading...!!

    Update from Cee's War:

    BAGHDAD - The U.S. command announced Thursday the deaths of 14 more American troops, most killed in powerful roadside bombs in Baghdad. Thick, black smoke rose from the heavily fortified Green Zone after a mortar barrage as militants struck back despite a massive military offensive.

    But as always, attacks claimed far more Iraqi lives.

    Winning the (purple) hearts and (land) mines...

    Cee-All you care about is the self-preservation of your political party.

    You don't give a damn about your fellow american or the troops...

    It's all about partisan politics to you.

    And you're losing badly.

    Our forefathers made it very clear that there should be a strong separation of church and state.
    BUSH HAS TRIED TO BLUR THOSE LINES EVERY CHANCE HE GOT.

    Our forefathers set up a system of government that demanded a system of checks and balances.
    BUSH HAS TRIED TO EXTEND THE POWERS OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH EVERY CHANCE HE GOT.

    The facts just don't support the rantings of this madman Cee.

    Posted by: shitforbraines at June 21, 2007 8:19 PM

    Where's your facts, nobody gives a shitforbraines?

    Jeff/RK is unaware of Bush extending the powers of the executive branch. It's all new to him.

    Is there a more uninformed poster at this site ?


    Posted by:olbyloon at June 21, 2007 9:29 PM

    We are at war, in case you didn't know. Who's uninformed and ignorant? Stop watching Olberman!

    Bush is the "Commander IN Cheif" and we are at war. With people like Leaky Leahy, Waxwoman, The Murderer Kennedy, Pelosi, Murtha, Dinjee Harry, Sandy Burgler, etc. lurking in the shadows, you can't be too careful! You just keep feeling sorry for the poor little terrorists that want to kill YOU, though.

    MANY TIMES THESE SO CALLED TERRORISTS WERE JUST IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME.

    So we are just supposed to take your word for that?

    Here is why I don't take your word. Let's take this:

    The Bush administration has been using an extreme version of an obscure doctrine called the Unitary Executive Theory to justify executive actions that far exceed past presidents' power.
    The doctrine assumes, in its extreme form, nearly absolute deference to the Executive branch from Congress and the Judiciary.
    ***
    According to Dr. Christopher Kelley, a professor in the Department of Political Sciences at Miami University, as of April 2005, President Bush had used the doctrine 95 times when signing legislation into law, issuing an executive order, or responding to a congressional resolution.
    ****
    Well, you and The Raw Story which is where the above was pulled from get an "F" for research. I found the exact quote, checked the link for the "95 times" and read this from the paper of Dr. Kelly referenced: (I could not even cut and paste but had to handwrite and copy it just for you; I'm lazy and decided to use all caps):

    IS MILBANK CORRECT AND THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION SEEMS TO BE PRACTICING SOME OBSCURE THEORY OF PRESIDENTIAL POWER THAT MAKES IT DIFFERENT FROM PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS? OR, IS THE CURRENT BUSH ADMINISTRATION SIMPLY FORMALIZING A PROCESS THAT HAS BEEN BUILDING OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES? IN THIS PAPER, I WILL ARGUE THAT THE CURRENT BUSH ADMINISTRATION HAS SIMPLY FORMALIZED A PROCESS THAT REALLY BEGAN WITH THE REGAN ADMINISTRATION AND IS A RESULT OF THE ASSAULT ON THE PRESIDENCY FOLLOWING WATERGATE AND THE FEAR OF AN "IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY." (page 4)


    Looks like Sharon just debunked shit for brains. Raw story, what a joke! Is it any wonder shit for brains is just that? Between getting his news Olbermahn and that off the chart left wing lying site, it makes sense now. He probably has to get a little dose of the bbc for good measure once in a while, too! Oh, don't forget John Stewart!

    Anon from 11:23 p.m.,

    In case you have a problem understanding context, "Why" quoted part of a piece from The Raw Story, which referenced Pro. Kelley. The purpose of his paper is this:

    I WILL ARGUE THAT THE CURRENT BUSH ADMINISTRATION HAS SIMPLY FORMALIZED A PROCESS THAT REALLY BEGAN WITH THE REGAN ADMINISTRATION AND IS A RESULT OF THE ASSAULT ON THE PRESIDENCY FOLLOWING WATERGATE AND THE FEAR OF AN "IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY." (page 4)