moron paranoid AAP

Why is O'Reilly scrutinized for making the DailyKos/Nazi remarks but when KO makes a Nazi salute, he get's a pass from his " blue blog buddies"?

The "filibuster" that isn't a filibuster. What a fool, the orange one is. Are his viewers that dumb?

His obsession with Bill makes one think
That Keith really needs a good shrink
It's more funny, admit
When Keith's sucking hind tit
Compared to Bill, Keith's ratings stink

Daily Kos.. what a repugnant cesspool of the blogosphere. They've already posted a blurb titled "O'Reilly implies woman deserved to be raped" (of course he didn't) re: a segment he did TONIGHT, because he was trying to determine how intoxicated she was. Funny, after watching it, I would have sworn Bill was SIDING with the woman! Then of course, for added venom, blogger "calipygian" references the sex-harassment suit complete with added link to the Andrea Mackris deposition.

A bit off topic I admit, but this is the crap Oralmann consumes on a daily basis. This is his brand of "journalism".

I'll be interested to see MSNBC's Wednesday night ratings for the 7-8 p.m. EDT hour, when they had David Shuster on with continuing coverage of a gaping hole in the middle of New York spraying hot air, toxic water and mud up into the atmosphere, compared with the 8-9 p.m. hour, when they had their the usual 60 minutes of a gaping hole in the middle of New York spraying hot air, toxic water and mud up into the atmosphere,and a brief mention of the steampipe explosion.

Funny John!

Not to disturb this enjoyable evening with such engaging topics, but as I was reading the online editions of some of the Thursday morning European and English newspapers, I found a most interesting article in The Guardian which seems to be indicating or at least postulating that, to the extent there is more cooperation between Iraqis on the streets and US Occupiers, it is because of the belief that the US will soon be leaving and alliances formed by various Iraqi groups will allow them to better handle Al Qaeda when the US does leave. That all sounds well and good, but there is a cautionary note as well: If the US does not exit soon, the reason for the intergroup cooperation and for continued cooperation with the US occupying forces will likely end.

The article may be accessed at:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2129675,00.html

and I would encourage that portion of those on this site who are literate or semi-literate to read it in its enitrety.

Of course, it is difficult to know how much credence to put into this type of article, but on the whole, during the Invasion and throughout the Occupation, I have generally found some of the European and English newspapers to be in the lead (poor pun) of US newspapers and news reports on many developing issues, and I have found The Guardian to be reliable in most instances.

If, as is widely speculated, the majical September Surge Report calls for a Surge in the Surge (More Time! More American Lives! More Money!) the thesis of this article might well inform us that is a particularly dangerous and fruitless strategy.

Certainly, it is not the Rosetta Stone, but it does give us a provocative idea to add to the deliberations (should we have any). In particular, Sharon, I thought with your well-thought out arguments for patience until or through September, a position with which I disagree but know that you feel deeply about, this gives us an interesting and useful view of the possible post-September landscape.

Have any of the Olbermann haters out there given him any credit for his self depreciating humor regarding his head pasted on a horse's ass? Do any of them even know about it? Did anyone but me notice that your revered Johnny Dollar didn't even bother to mention it in his so called 'recap'?

NO, of course not!.....This is a Keith Olbermann smear site and Johnny Dollar is it's star smear agent!...Nothing but a hack looking for all things he can spin negative but ignoring anything positive! But old Johnny just loves to yak on and on about "dogs that don't bark".....HYPOCRITE!

For the record, Keith belittled himself by joking that the image of his own head on the ass of that horse was demeaning to to that particular race horse. Did J$ make any note of that little act of humilty?...Of course NOT! All he did was drone on about how Keith was 'lying' about Fox using the old ratings.

How DO you sleep at night?...You discusting hack!

Smear away....haters!

And Bill O'Reilly always tells people during the letters segment that he's the one on the show who will do the bloviating. That doesn't seem to make him any more warm and fuzzy with Keith and his followers.

That doesn't excuse not even mentioning it in what is supposed to be a 'recap' of the show!

Oh yeah, self-deprecating humor makes slanting the news, smearing your competitors, and reversing a propaganda line he used as recently as last Friday just fine. Yeah, he makes fun of his head on a horse. See, Olby is really a journalist after all. He IS Edward R Murrow reborn!

Smear away....haters!

Posted by: Mike at July 18, 2007 11:36 PM

See ya tomorrow!

Sure sure Johnny...The FACT is that you intentionally left out an important indicator about the overall tone of the segment, as well as the show.

I rarely do it, but EVERY single time I have ever read one of you hackish 'recaps', and then carefully compared it to the actual show, I have found omissions, distortions, and even outright lies.

Are you REALLY proud of what you do?....You HACK!

Nothing but a hack looking for all things he can spin negative but ignoring anything positive!

Posted by: "mike" at July 18, 2007 11:36 PM

You just described "Countdown" right down to the "T." Thanks! I knew you had it in ya!

I read an interview with the horse earlier today. He definitely didn't share KO's take on it.

The poor horse, sometimes sobbing, related that after intensive therapy he had just been able to move on from the first incident when Olby made a horses ass of himself with his Bill O mask/Hitler seig heil and this poor horse was innocently and unfairly implicated.

His voice quivering, he said he didn't know how he would be able to recover this time because KO had used his picture without permission and pulled him back into the public eye again.

The most poignant moment came when, with big tears rolling down his face and collecting on his harness, he said that he thought the glue factory might be his only option.

Grammie

I read an interview with the horse earlier today.
----------
Source, please. NOW!

rarely do it, but EVERY single time I have ever read one of you hackish 'recaps', and then carefully compared it to the actual show, I have found omissions, distortions, and even outright lies.

Are you REALLY proud of what you do?....You HACK!

Posted by: Mike at July 19, 2007 12:05 AM

First, it was "never" now it's "rarely" what will it be tomorrow? Stay tuned......

I appreciate Johnny Dollars efforts with the recap, but really with Olbermann wouldn't it be a more interesting challenge to find a dog that did bark?

Just kidding, thanks for the effort. I watch this clown when O'Reilly is doing some stupid segment about another a$$hole that's killed his wife, or some other such "human interest" crap. Of course, now that the DVR is working again, this may be the only exposure I get to KO.

So Jef, what are we boycotting today?

Democracy ?

Posted by:coward at July 19, 2007 12:13 AM

Cowards.....

... when O'Reilly is doing some stupid segment about another a$$hole that's killed his wife, or some other such "human interest" crap.
---------------
I have to admit, that is a colorful way to put it. BOR and H&C have gotten into much more of these types of stories as the political situation for the RW has deteriorated, but I have never heard anyone lump the two (2) topics together in such a manner. Thanks for a head-scratching good laugh, NewGuy. You'll be a welcome addition.

spoken by the poster who runs from questions faster than the country is running from John McCain.( for his support for the war)

AP?

who's the coward ?

Posted by: at July 19, 2007 12:35 AM

coward, it has nothing to do with supporting the war, it has to do with aligning himself with Feinbronze and Ted the murderer Kennedy. Spin all you want.

Wow, I've got to be careful here! That clucker can read whatever he wants to into anything! Hmm, lefty?

> the overall tone of the segment

An attempted bon mot at the end of a smear doesn't change the smear. It may fool you but it doesn't fool me. I guess I'm a little smarter than the average Olbypologist.

> outright lies.

Such as?

"Such as?"

An intentional omission is one form of a lie.

"I guess I'm a little smarter than the average Olbypologist"

Not nearly as smart as you think you are....HACK!

"an attempted bon mot at the end of a smear doesn't change the smear."

You forgot to mention that the particular 'smear' in question was a smear against Olbermann himself, and the negative spin on his (KO's) ratings, in which a horses ass was used in a rather tasteless manner. Olbermann was doing nothing more than defending himself in that segment.

> An intentional omission is one form of a lie.

Omissions are only a form of a lie when they change the truth of something. Nothing I write is untrue in perception or factuality.

Oh, and by the way, even if an omission WERE a lie, it wouldn't be an "outright" lie, which be definition is an entirely different thing. So apparently you've come up short on that as well.

> Olbermann was doing nothing more than defending himself in that segment.

Yeah, defending himself. Attacking Fox for someone else's flyer. His aim isn't very good. Must have been from when he walked into a subway wall.

"Nothing I write is untrue in perception or factuality"

Virtually everything you write is untrue in perception.

mike protesteth too much. olby is easy to hate because he is a propagandizing hate merchant.

coward, couldn't you have found a farther left paper than the Times of London to c and p from? lol!

Virtually everything you write is untrue in perception.

Posted by: Mike at July 19, 2007 1:16 AM

Any evidence to support?

Virtually everything you write is untrue in perception.

Posted by: Mike at July 19, 2007 1:16 AM

Virtually all your perceptions are misperceptions, but we'll give you six months for your perceptions to expand when something to happen that leads to you arguing that "self-depreciating humor" is no recompense for someone having made a irresponsible and false accusation.

Sorta like you did yesterday, when you finally recognized that a "rhetorical question" is not really a question and can therefore be paraphrased in quotations marks.

"even if an omission WERE a lie, it wouldn't be an "outright" lie"

Wow John, could you split a hair any thinner? The point remains, you know that you left out information. That is being untruthful, which is another word for LYING.

Omissions are only a form of a lie when they change the truth of something. Nothing I write is untrue in perception or factuality.

Oh, and by the way, even if an omission WERE a lie, it wouldn't be an "outright" lie, which be definition is an entirely different thing. So apparently you've come up short on that as well.

-----

This would seem to be in conflict with the spirit, perhaps even the literal word of the Book of Common Prayer, but you Mr. Dollares possess all wisdom and goodness, as we all know. It's probably time for a new edition, anyway. The current one probably causes a great deal of discomfort among the RW'ers.

Wow, I've got to be careful here! That clucker can read whatever he wants to into anything! Hmm, lefty?

-------------------------

If you are going to be hyper-sensitive about your writing, perhaps you should write with greater care.

Mike said:

"Have any of the Olbermann haters out there given him any credit for his self depreciating humor regarding his head pasted on a horse's ass? Do any of them even know about it? Did anyone but me notice that your revered Johnny Dollar didn't even bother to mention it in his so called 'recap'?

NO, of course not!.....This is a Keith Olbermann smear site and Johnny Dollar is it's star smear agent!...Nothing but a hack looking for all things he can spin negative but ignoring anything positive! But old Johnny just loves to yak on and on about "dogs that don't bark".....HYPOCRITE!

For the record, Keith belittled himself by joking that the image of his own head on the ass of that horse was demeaning to to that particular race horse. Did J$ make any note of that little act of humilty?...Of course NOT! All he did was drone on about how Keith was 'lying' about Fox using the old ratings.

How DO you sleep at night?...You discusting hack!

Smear away....haters"

You are right....he didn't make any mention at all about Keith's "little act of humility"......of course, he also didn't make mention of the comment leading up to it, where Keith was talking about "being interviewed by about 50 to 75 reporters"....yeah, now there's an act of humility on Keith's part which also didn't get mentioned.

It sounds to me like a push here.

Posted by Katy:

"His obsession with Bill makes one think
That Keith really needs a good shrink
It's more funny, admit
When Keith's sucking hind tit
Compared to Bill, Keith's ratings stink."

END POEM

Good one. It goes with class. MSNBC and especially Olby and Mathews know who is on top. Only a real loser would ridicule the leader. Why would the host of the no. 1 cable news program even exists Olby is even breathing our clean, free air.

Olby's day is coming. Just as ROsie and Imus, he is not for the long run. Mathews is already on teh skillet. His show is already sliging into the gutter. I'm sure and "Angry Whiter Men" segment is just around the corner. His set up of Ann Coulter and his Sharpton/Hitchens segments were pathetic. Between Mathews and Olby there isn't a ball between them.

Posted by Katy:

"His obsession with Bill makes one think
That Keith really needs a good shrink
It's more funny, admit
When Keith's sucking hind tit
Compared to Bill, Keith's ratings stink."

END POEM

Good one. It goes with class. MSNBC and especially Olby and Mathews know who is on top. Only a real loser would ridicule the leader. Why would the host of the no. 1 cable news program even exists Olby is even breathing our clean, free air.

Olby's day is coming. Just as Rosie and Imus, he is not for the long run. Mathews is already on the skillet. His show is already sliding into the gutter. I'm sure an "Angry White Men" segment is just around the corner if they can get Chapelle out of the nut hospital. His set up of Ann Coulter and his Sharpton/Hitchens segments were pathetic. Between Mathews and Olby there isn't a ball between them.

Says CHicken Clucker:

"Of course, it is difficult to know how much credence to put into this type of article, but on the whole, during the Invasion and throughout the Occupation, I have generally found some of the European and English newspapers to be in the lead (poor pun) of US newspapers and news reports on many developing issues, and I have found The Guardian to be reliable in most instances.

If, as is widely speculated, the majical September Surge Report calls for a Surge in the Surge (More Time! More American Lives! More Money!) the thesis of this article might well inform us that is a particularly dangerous and fruitless strategy.

Certainly, it is not the Rosetta Stone, but it does give us a provocative idea to add to the deliberations (should we have any). In particular, Sharon, I thought with your well-thought out arguments for patience until or through September, a position with which I disagree but know that you feel deeply about, this gives us an interesting and useful view of the possible post-September landscape."

END QUOTE

Me looks through my crystal ball and I see Chicken CLucker sitting at his PC pondering what line of bull shit he tries to impress.

The company I worked for a few years ago hired a safety engineer. He had an engineering technoloy degree. It wasn't worth the paper it was writ. He woul;d stumble and fumble around trying to speak in a way to impress and in reality he didn;t know the difference from his own asshole and a hole in the ground. One of our maintenance people said it best, "I aint got no respect for a man that hesitates and fumbles around looking for a word to use that "HE" thinks I don't know the definition".

Well, clucker, you are an idiot. I'm sure when you hit send you think, "Boy, I sure put them in their place". The truth is you post a long, drawn out piece of garbage that makes no sense.

Bottom line:

YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT. You may be cock of the walk in your sandbox but you aint shit in the real world. Now you and AAP, Mike, Sir Loin, Bill O'Lielly, Codas, baldheadedrat go put 10% of your net pay to fill your tank.

Re: Support for war may yet be the undoing of John McCain

I would say that conventional wisdom among the Republicans (and it's only their opinion that counts atm, since we're in Primary season) is that other issues, especially his pandering to the Democratic leadership, has derailed his campaign.

His position on immigration reform, as well as "negotiations" on the judicial nominee filibusters soured him in the minds of many Republican's.

"BAGHDAD, July 18 — For more than a year, the leader of one the most notorious insurgent groups in Iraq was said to be a mysterious Iraqi called Abu Omar al-Baghdadi.

As the titular head of the Islamic State in Iraq, Mr. Baghdadi issued incendiary pronouncements. Despite claims by an Iraqi Interior Ministry official in May that Mr. Baghdadi had been killed, he appeared to have persevered unscathed.

On Wednesday, the chief United States military spokesman here, Brig. Gen. Kevin J. Bergner, provided a new explanation for Mr. Baghdadi’s ability to escape attack: he never existed. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/18/world/middleeast/18cnd-baghdadi.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

...and Zarqawi was "proven to be in Iraq prior to our invasion because we "knew" he was having a leg amputated there - but then "he" (or whoever that was) had two legs when "he" killed Daniel Perle, and when "he" himself was supposedly killed by Coaliton troops.

Bagdhadi, described in the article linked above, was reportedly invented by a terrorist group for their own purposes, but it served the purposes of our own leadership as well. Bagdhadi, Zarqawi, bin Laden, several dozen "Al Qeada number twos"....they are all Emmanuel Goldstein - fictional existential threats flashed across your TV screens to feed your sedentary fear and hate.

Oceana has always been at war with Eastasia.

Scott, I think you have made a good analysis of NcCain's problems with the Repub base.

If all the others running shared Ron Paul's views re Iraq McCain would be in first place now and those other drawbacks would take a back seat.

I also think he is a little iffy in his commitment to keeping tax rates as low as possible.

Grammie

Why do none of the drowning rat mind-slaves ever have anything to say about the VP's company, Halliburton, "cutting and running" from the country who's tax dollars have made it sleek and fat and moving its headquarters to Dubai? Does this not interest any of you Islamophobes in any way whatsoever?

Personally, I would say: "good riddance; don't let the screen-door hit your ass - but leave all of that lovely capital behind with the society that let you compile it, thank you very much."

I wonder if Cheney is going to live next to Michael Jackson when he leaves office - or is that Bahrain?

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at July 18, 2007 8:07 PM

--------------------------------------------
- but leave all of that lovely capital behind with the society that let you compile it, thank you very much."

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at July 18, 2007 8:07 PM

No doubt! :D

Posted by: Cecelia at July 18, 2007 8:32 PM
--------------------------------------------

Cecelia, you made my point preceisely. I've tried numerous times to raise this question, and to elicit the rght-wing's opinons regarding Halliburton's physical and legal abandonment of the United States after helping to bankrupt us, and your response focuses only on my socialist perspective.

Someone here must have some opinion regarding Cheney's company moving lock, stock, and barrel to the Islamic world.

I like to think im a relatively sane person who forms opinions in a clear, concise manner. Ive come to the conclusion that Olbermann is completely out of his mind. His whole show is built around his man love obsession for a guy he can't beat in the ratings. He likes to tell you he has bigger fish to fry, and yet time after time after time he huffs and he puffs and he just can't blow bill o's house down.

The simple fact of the matter is, whatever ratings system is used, the money demo remains the money demo, and hes behind that night after night after night.

I've come to the conclusion while Bill O may be no mental giant neither is Keith. Its the same seven guests, the same format 1-bush sucks 2 bush sucks 3 regurgitated nbc news story 4 bill o reily sucks 5 whatever cleebrity flashed her neither regions that day

Also, I mean can he be any more lazy? the bloggsphere rights his show for him and dictates him, what an absolute lewwwwwser

Not a bad one:

Q. How many neocons does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A. Neocons don't bother with light bulbs. They declare a War on Darkness and set the house on fire.

As a matter of full disclosure, I am a recovered neocon myself.

For the Olbypologists, every recap I do omits something. I don't bother with oddball most of the time. I don't transcribe every word. If you want literal, MSNBC publishes transcripts. My recaps expose the lies, distortions, and rampast bias of the infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann. I don't really care about oddball, or Michael Musto segments, or Olby's bon mots.

The Olbypologists are gullible enough to think that a bon mot from their god erases all the bias and lies that preceded it. That a joke is more important than Olbermann smearing Fox and getting caught in the act. Clear-thinking readers know that these little distractions Herr Olbermjoronn tosses in are like a treat thrown to a dog by a burglar so he can get into the next room. Oralmann makes up a story about Fox News and reports it as fact. In journalistic terms, that's called lying. But hey, he made a joke about himself. That's what important, not the lie he told.

Only on OlbyPlanet.

So the left in Congress has redefined its goal. Instead of a pullout, it merely proposes a “reduction” and a “redeployment.”

Under a Democratic administration, the war will clearly go on.

Michael Medved, an unusually well informed talk radio host operating out of Seattle, pointed out this distinction — one that has been almost entirely ignored by the left wing media, yet one that is critically important. DM

"I like to think im a relatively sane person who forms opinions in a clear, concise manner. Ive come to the conclusion that Olbermann..."

Your statement indicts itself right at that point, so I stopped reading.

This would seem to be in conflict with the spirit, perhaps even the literal word of the Book of Common Prayer, but you Mr. Dollares possess all wisdom and goodness, as we all know. It's probably time for a new edition, anyway. The current one probably causes a great deal of discomfort among the RW'ers.

Posted by: Clucker at July 19, 2007 7:12 AM

THE illustration of that plank vs mote thing...

"That a joke is more important than Olbermann smearing Fox and getting caught in the act."

Right, Johnny. Nothing is more important than O daring to smear the Fox. The Fox must be defended! Hence your tireless efforts here and elsewhere. Thanks.

olberloon, you didn't stop reading the post, you are just in denial that Olbermahn is completely out of his mind. Close your eyes and scream "no, no, no, no, say it isn't so!" Feel better now? Pass this info on to "mike" if you get a chance....he needs some therapy, too.

You can go to Media Matters 3 minutes before this show starts or the daily ooooze and nail it who the worst person in the world is...how is that originality, I would bet he shows up 7pm before the 8p start

Lazy sack

What useless posts! This site has more personal attacks against Olby and its posters than real examples of what Olby said/did was not correct for some reason. You all are loons! Stick with facts and not personal attacks.

What about Olby's claims last night about him being in 4th? Explain why he was upset at that. No one, even Fox seems to want to explain the new rating system which includes TIVO viewers.

What about Olby's 2 remarks about Bill O last night? Was it true what he said about Bill defending a man killing himself over NBC's to Catch a Pred? Did Bill do this as Olby One claimed?

Now stop the personal attacks and stay on topic. Explain with facts.

Having worked in television for the last 20 years, i can tell you there is no ratings system right now that uses TIVO or YOUTUBE to include it in its overall cumulative

Olberman hangs his whole show on the internets and the blogospehere, so he would like you to think if someone looks at one of his looney rants on youtube it means something, when youtube inflates their numbers all the time

Olbermann is ridiculous and huffing and puffing to try and blow the fox house down and he cant. And as the esteemed Robert Cox posts here all the time and reminds viewers, Olbermann who once said he would take on his own network because if he didint it would be a test to his "manhood", never takes on his own network.....No one watches MSNBC at 7, no one is watching MSNBC At 9, and Olbermann flatlines at his 400-700k viewers every night

Thank you for answering me Dan. I have to admit I laughed when Keith made his joke about the horse poster. (PS: He looked hurt) But my husband and I got into a discussion about ratings. Who is right? I have no real idea. Both Fox and Olby complain they are right but you have to admit each one does not say where or how they get their numbers. Why did not Olby tell us where he "fell" in the ratings? All he said is that the Fox people were wrong.

What useless posts! This site has more personal attacks against Olby and its posters than real examples of what Olby said/did was not correct for some reason. You all are loons! Stick with facts and not personal attacks.

What about Olby's claims last night about him being in 4th? Explain why he was upset at that. No one, even Fox seems to want to explain the new rating system which includes TIVO viewers.

What about Olby's 2 remarks about Bill O last night? Was it true what he said about Bill defending a man killing himself over NBC's to Catch a Pred? Did Bill do this as Olby One claimed?

Now stop the personal attacks and stay on topic. Explain with facts.

Posted by: Rose at July 19, 2007 11:36 AM

Yeah, Rose, blathering about ratings competitions constitutes dealing with REAL issues!

War-profiteering, subtle tyranny, torture....where do these fit in?

What useless posts! This site has more personal attacks against Olby and its posters than real examples of what Olby said/did was not correct for some reason. You all are loons! Stick with facts and not personal attacks.

What about Olby's claims last night about him being in 4th? Explain why he was upset at that. No one, even Fox seems to want to explain the new rating system which includes TIVO viewers.

What about Olby's 2 remarks about Bill O last night? Was it true what he said about Bill defending a man killing himself over NBC's to Catch a Pred? Did Bill do this as Olby One claimed?

Now stop the personal attacks and stay on topic. Explain with facts.

Posted by: Rose at July 19, 2007 11:36 AM

Yeah, Rose, blathering about ratings competitions constitutes dealing with REAL issues!

War-profiteering, subtle tyranny, torture....where do these fit in?

"BAGHDAD, July 18 — For more than a year, the leader of one the most notorious insurgent groups in Iraq was said to be a mysterious Iraqi called Abu Omar al-Baghdadi.

As the titular head of the Islamic State in Iraq, Mr. Baghdadi issued incendiary pronouncements. Despite claims by an Iraqi Interior Ministry official in May that Mr. Baghdadi had been killed, he appeared to have persevered unscathed.

On Wednesday, the chief United States military spokesman here, Brig. Gen. Kevin J. Bergner, provided a new explanation for Mr. Baghdadi’s ability to escape attack: he never existed. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/18/world/middleeast/18cnd-baghdadi.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

...and Zarqawi was "proven to be in Iraq prior to our invasion because we "knew" he was having a leg amputated there - but then "he" (or whoever that was) had two legs when "he" killed Daniel Perle, and when "he" himself was supposedly killed by Coaliton troops.

Bagdhadi, described in the article linked above, was reportedly invented by a terrorist group for their own purposes, but it served the purposes of our own leadership as well. Bagdhadi, Zarqawi, bin Laden, several dozen "Al Qeada number twos"....they are all Emmanuel Goldstein - fictional existential threats flashed across your TV screens to feed your sedentary fear and hate.

Oceana has always been at war with Eastasia.

I have doubts that all of your statements are correct. You said they have physically and legally abandoned the US, moved lock stock and barrel to Dubai.

SLOB, as far as I can tell Halliburton is still incorporated in Delaware.

They have moved their Corporate Headquarters from Dallas, TX to Qutar, not Dubai.

Halliburton is doing and has done business in most of the world. They are, I think, the largest integrated company in the world and much of their work requires custom designed and manufactured parts, products, design and solutions.

Halliburton is not primarily a manufacturer who packed up their factories and moved them all to Qutar. They have a half dozen plants that manufacture drilling equipment and related items both in the US and a few other countries, Scotland being one.

Tax laws will apply based on national and state laws just as they would if the Corporate Headquarters were still in Dallas and their incorporation was Delaware.

As far as I am concerned they are entitled to make their decisions based on what is best for their company and stockholders.

Grammie

"What about Olby's 2 remarks about Bill O last night? Was it true what he said about Bill"

Or here's another alternative. Don't waste time debating the merits of television personailities and television shows. What you see on TV is entertainment. It is geared to get you to watch commercials.

It's unfortunate that these shows use as trappings issues about which people should argue and feel passionate. They take this legitimate underlying passion, gin it up, distort it, and channel it to their advertizers and affiliates. After they are done, the issues themselves become secondary to the entertainment and the show.

Is Guantanamo consistent with American values and the rule of law? Having a real debate on that topic would be valuable and educational. Deliberately using it as a set-piece and prop to fire up an audience for entertainment purposes obscures it. People who watch KO or H&C or any other such nonsense believe they have seen some kind of airing of the issue. The truth is, they generally don't even get one side. Not even close. They get 30 seconds deliberately designed to push certain emotional buttons and make viewers feel smug or angry. An entertainment show has to present it that way to sell soap and get people to come back.

This is why practically no one on either side of the issue really has any idea about the nitty gritty of how Guantanamo actually functions. Very few people actually get to decide whether G strikes them as anti-American or not, because they are never exposed to the question outside of the pop-culture utility of the issue to entertainers and advertizers.

Cable news treatment creates dichotomies on these issues that resemble the much vaunted political polarization overall in the U.S. We are just soooo divided...people just believe their side is right soooo strongly. But when questioned in any detail, it turns out that the most salient thing you can say about these debates is that people really know almost nothing about them. They know nothing about debates that they themselves feel very strongly about. How is that possible?

Look at how the business of news and opinion works, and you can see quite clearly how it is not only possible, but inevitable. Their job is to create and capitalize on emotional attachment. Any content beyond a bare minimum confuses the emotional issue.

I have no problem with people entertaining themselves however they want. The danger is that this kind of entertainment can create a false impression in the mind of the viewer that they are "up on the issue." It creates false confidence, which I think is truly damaging to a democracy. I think the worst false confidence would be created by someone following Krille's prescription, to triangulate at the truth by watching multiple opposed versions of these hyper-shallow sources, say FOX and MSNBC.

http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_5782&pageNum=1

The best laugh on the internets today!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/generation-chickenhawk-t_b_56676.html

"In conversations with at least twenty College Republicans about the war in Iraq, I listened as they lip-synched discredited cant about "fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here." Many of the young GOP cadres I met described the so-called "war on terror" as nothing less than the cause of their time.

Yet when I asked these College Repulicans why they were not participating in this historical cause, they immediately went into contortions. Asthma. Bad knees from playing catcher in high school. "Medical reasons." "It's not for me." These were some of the excuses College Republicans offered for why they could not fight them "over there." Like the current Republican leaders who skipped out on Vietnam, the GOP's next generation would rather cheerlead from the sidelines for the war in Iraq while other, less privileged young men and women fight and die.

Along with videographer Thomas Shomaker, I captured a vivid portrait of the hypocritical mentality of the next generation of Republican leaders. See for yourself."

If any of you chickenhawk drowning-rats have any balls at all you will visit the link above and watch the video, then comment here about the words issueing from the coeardly mouths of people just like you.

Rose the way to look at it is in the write up at the front of the show, where the link to the ratings are posted, those indeed are the real ratings and indeed those are the real ratings anyone gives a damm about

I dont believe (although I may be wrong before the loons here jump down my throat) that Olberamnn has ever cracked 1,000,000 viewers in a show, again I could be wrong....I would say his best chance for that comes 8/7 when he moderates a debate and then does his show...IMO though its waaaaaaaaaaaay to early for all these debates anyway, i wouldnt classify it as must see tv

"They have moved their Corporate Headquarters from Dallas, TX to Qutar, not Dubai."

A number one, there is no such country as Qutar, and B number two, they did indeed move to Dubai. Aren't you typing this on a computer connected to the internet?

"As far as I am concerned they are entitled to make their decisions based on what is best for their company and stockholders."

I think the main reason for the move is that the U.S. restricts them from conducting business with, for instance, Iran, and from bribing foreign officials, etc. Considering the countries with the oil, they really can't afford such niceties. It's probably less about taxes and more about not wanting to comply with U.S. foreign poliicy and ethics rules.

Their main competitor Schlumberger doesn't have such restrictions, as the French are notorious for an anything goes attitude for their nationals. I had first hand experience with this as a company my wife worked way back when was purchased by Saint Gobain in order to get around export restrictions on their nuclear testing related product going to India.

In the U.S., they have their capitallist hands tied by foreign policy considerations. In Dubai, they will not. Another positive note is that they now can offer Cheney or any other official as much money as they want for whatever they want. Bribery is legal in Dubai.

As far as I am concerned they are entitled to make their decisions based on what is best for their company and stockholders.

Grammie

Posted by: Janet Hawkins at July 19, 2007 12:39 PM

...so, let's say they dacided that it owuld benefit their stockholders to give a life-time Washington insider a top-level executive positive for five years, then slip him back into a top-level government decision-making position so that he could give them huge contracts without competition - that would be just fine with you?

Because WOW! - that strategy really has been good for their stockholders!

What ROSE thinks is really "USEFUL" (from the "unbiased" thread):

Help. Speaking about Viagra, on the website forthisreliefmuchthanks.blogspot.com, it reads ?This blog is open to invited readers only.? My google account does not work and I would really like to read this. Does anyone have a password that I can use to read this? Thanks.

Posted by: Rose at July 18, 2007 11:12 AM

In the future, Rosey dear, spare us your pathetic personal attack-laden pontificating---(What useless posts! This site has more personal attacks against Olby and its posters than real examples of what Olby said/did was not correct for some reason. You all are loons! Stick with facts and not personal attacks.)---when seeking out "USEFUL" information of the "PERSONAL" bedroom habits of Mr. Olbermann.

The best laugh on the internets today!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/generation-chickenhawk-t_b_56676.html

--------------------------------------------

I viewed this on another site, this morning, Mr. Loin, and it was a knee-slapper. All these robust-looking young men, waving the flag, sounding the war trumpet, each mouthing the identical, "We'll fight them there, so we don't fight the here." Of course, not one of this squeaky clean Young Republicans are fighting or will be fighting anyone (unless we reinstitute the draft). Each one had asthma or a football injury or was too out-of-shape to enlist, or needed to finish college or just didn't feel it was what he should be doing. Looks like we're raising another generation of Chicken Hawks to replace Bush, Cheney, Lot, Allen, &c, &c. Funny, but frightening. Well, my grandfather always told me Democrats win the wars Republicans start. He was a wise man.

Thanks for posting the link, although I am sure few on this site will follow it.

Coming from someone that has wished at least two republicans dead on this board and boasted he would pee on Murdoch's grave your oast is nothing more than wind breaking from the asseth of Mike Mooreth mr shit talker.

You're a lying cunt, Mrs. Bush. Did you make shit like this up back in Midland Texas to get yourself out of trouble when you killed that young man while driving drunk?

SLOB thinks there is zero terror threat . HA! friggen fools.

Clucker,

For future reference, you don't have to begin a comment by informing everyone that you read the European papers; it wastes limited time that we all have to live and it is tedious. I would gather that you read The Guardian by virtue of providing a link and discussion. I don't want to violate my own request not to be tedious...

"A great gap has opened up between Sunni and Shia under the occupation and al-Qaida has contributed to that."

I don't claim to be an expert on the Middle East but I would say that the gap has been there before 2003. What I believe that you don't is that Bush wants the alliance to occur. He wants a withdrawal. It is just a matter of when it should occur; hopefully not much longer. They still need our help to fight al Qaida. I read the milblogs (do you?) and hear of many missions accomplished. I posted a link that showed literally the people of al Anbar province and the U.S. soldiers dancing together in the streets.

A point that I have made several times and still hold to concerns the timing of the destruction of the Golden Mosque. Millions voted in December of 2005. (I asked why they would do that but never got an answer). There was limited violence, even somewhat of a truce. Al Qaida blew up the mosque in February of 2006. I have no doubt of that. That target could have been hit at any time prior.

SLOB thinks there is zero terror threat . HA! friggen fools.

Posted by: Gleason at July 19, 2007 1:43 PM

No, we have a very serious international law enforcement issue to deal with. We have a "zero chance" to fix the problem by invading unrelated countries, fostering chaos there, and staying forever.

Slob thinks he's talking to the real Laura Bush. HA! friggen loser.

Spoken like a true liberal. Pot meet kettle. Free speech to a liberal is to sling as much shit as they want and then whine when someone throws it back.Posted by: Laura Bush at July 19, 2007 1:20 PM

Laura, put the bong down. My bad for not making the post clearer so you can read through your pot cloud.....

ROSE SAID THE FOLLOWING: What useless posts! This site has more personal attacks against Olby and its posters than real examples of what Olby said/did was not correct for some reason. You all are loons! Stick with facts and not personal attacks.
Posted by: Rose at July 19, 2007 11:36 AM

I WAS SIMPLY POINTING OUT THE IRONY of someone pontficating against this blog's lack of "USEFUL" information & our personal attacks against Olbermann when clearly from a past post SHE was inquiring about "useless" information and using personal attacks (calling us LOONS) see above & below:

ALSO FROM ROSE:
Help. Speaking about Viagra, on the website forthisreliefmuchthanks.blogspot.com, it reads "This blog is open to invited readers only." My google account does not work and I would really like to read this. Does anyone have a password that I can use to read this? Thanks.
Posted by: Rose at July 18, 2007 11:12 AM

Got it now, Laura?

A point that I have made several times and still hold to concerns the timing of the destruction of the Golden Mosque. Millions voted in December of 2005. (I asked why they would do that but never got an answer). There was limited violence, even somewhat of a truce. Al Qaida blew up the mosque in February of 2006. I have no doubt of that. That target could have been hit at any time prior.

Posted by: Sharon at July 19, 2007 1:43 PM

It would have been great timing as well for a neocon coalition desiring profitable chaos in Iraq. They had already delayed elections to the point at which tey were mere pantomimes of democracy, destroyed the physical and civic infrastructure through precision incompetence, and made sure that all the jobs in the country went to Americans, British, Indonesian, Mexican,....citizens rather than Iraqis.

What was left for them to do but set various ethnicities against one another? The bullshit you hear from both sides of the aisle about "1000 years of Sunni/Shiite violence" is only as true as saying that there has been "600 years of Catholic/Protestant violence" in the west.

The British have admitted to having surreptitiously blown up civilians in northern Ireland in their designs to divide their rebellious subjects there, and they are known to have used similar colonial tactics in India. In the fall of 2004 two British SAS agents - dressed as "Arabs" - were caught by Iraqi police in Basra in possession of a Toyota Cressida packed with explosives wired todetonate via remote control. The Britsh agents killed several of their allied Iraqi policement and a few innocent bystanders during the arrest, but were eventually aprehended. While the Iraqi police were still saying "WTF?", the British army sprung the two from jail in an armored assault.

Similarly, between 1954 and 1956 the US has been implicated in numerous car-bombings in the cities of the artificial "South Vietnam", blaming the communists, in order to stop the antional reunification elections set for 1956. It worked;we were there for nearly 20 more yesrs, and 57,000 Americans and million's of Vietnamese died. Then, as now, our military was shattered and our national prestige was tarnished, but a lot of money was made.

I am convinced that we and/or the British blew up the mosque because things appeared to be settling down.

I see Spongemike Fruitypants is still dealing with his anger issues. He really should see about taking nap time during his day...

To all the right wing war supporters out there, I challenge you to take a few minutes and read all the incoherent psychobabble emitting from the one who calls themselves "Laura Bush" above.....All you have to do is scroll up and read away.

Please keep one important fact in mind while you reading all the filthy mouthed babble coming out of that psycho's twisted brain;.....He's one of YOURS!......Thank God!

Right on Sir Loin,

Welcome to my basement office.

Mikey! Its a wash- Ever seen a Bill Olielley post?

Right on Sir Loin,

Welcome to my basement office.

Posted by: Fox Mulder at July 19, 2007 2:14 PM

Thanks, Fox. I too get frustrated when the sheeple refuse to entertain the historically documented fact that unmonitored cabals of people allowed tremendous power and latitutde will do unbelievably immoral things to increase/maintain their power and make tons of money.

But unless you have some evidence that a super-race of benificent aliens are about to come down here and set things right, we are going to have to keep shouting common sense at these idiots.

"unmonitored cabals of people allowed tremendous power and [latitutde]sic will do unbelievably immoral things to increase/maintain their power and make tons of money."

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at July 19, 2007 2:20 PM

I didn't think I would ever see the day you would talk about BJ Clinton that way, finally coming to your senses. Thank God.

I am convinced that we and/or the British blew up the mosque because things appeared to be settling down.

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at July 19, 2007 2:02 PM

Here's one of yours, "mike," isn't she a doozie? See what watching Olbermahn too much does to ya? Keep that in mind, please.

I figure I'll go ahead and come out here and say it. This seems like the best place. I have the biggest crush on Bill O'Reilly that anyone could have. I secretly want his manhood inside me. I'm sad and jealous that I can't. That's why I mention him EVERY night. EVERY F'N NIGHT. I absolutely LOOOOOOVE him. I wish he were my BFF. :-* to you, Bill.

Sorry, SLOB I think I got it from this entry when I googled Halliburton: "And if Halliburton moves its headquarters "offshore" (meaning, away from American ... building terminals and ships for main exporters Qatar, Indonesia, " and I misspelled it 'Qutar'.

SLOB you do fly away on flights of fancy. That sure was a long term plan to get Cheney to Halliburton, then steal the election, then force OBL to attack America and then let the contracts flow.

And all so Cheney and his family could set all profits from deferred compensation and stock options in a trust that has purchased an insurance policy that guarantees the trust is not dependent on Halliburton performance. The entire trust will go to several Universities.

No bid contracts were given to Halliburton during Clinton's admin too. Just as many defense no bid contracts were awarded to many Defense contractors during Clinton's admin. This is not an evil flower blooming for the first time in GWB's admin.

This site gives a fairly decent overview:

http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-52889.html

And if you google 'no bid defense contracts' or 'no bid defense contracts Clinton Bush' there is a wealth of info available.

I am sure that open bid or no bid government contracts have a fairly high level of fraud and bribery. I think it is a systemic problem independent of which party is in power.

I have a lot of just general knowledge about the situation because my Dad was a Regional Chief Auditor for a DoD Contract Audit Agency. Any problem private businesses have (laziness, venality, CYA, bribery, fraud etc) are multiplied in Federal agencies.

Halliburton got a no bid contract (KBR subsidiary) to put the Kuwait oil field fires out. Why a no bid contract? How many companies were big enough to bid and how long should we have let the fires burn while all the bids were prepared and evaluated.

SLOB, you often go beyond accusations to flat out statements that those who disagree with you are are brain washed robots. Have you looked in a mirror lately. If I see a towel head under every bed and around every corner you see evil Repub capitalists everywhere too.

Grammie

Johnny$--any chance you have a screen grab from TVnewser? BTW: When is Brian leaving TVnewser? Doesn't the NYTimes need his "blog posting/deleting" skills...

From TVnewser:
I don't know who posted the flyers in the breakroom. But on the very same morning, an Excel spreadsheet showing the exact same trend depicted on the flyer landed in my Inbox...
Posted by brian | 09:42 AM | MSNBC

From ICN (the true & trusted source for cable news):
TV Newser has linked to an Excel spreadsheet: http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/original/olbermanntrend.xls

Out of the 33 days for which data is depicted, KO finished 2nd six times, 3rd NINETEEN times and 4th eight times, and that was in the coveted "demo". So that excludes people over 54, who, according to the demo logic, simply don't exist. Why should the DVR ratings be used just for the purposes of making MSNBC look good?

Bottom line, Keith spends most of his time in third place, not second, as stated in folklore put forth by the MSM.
Comment by Missy / July 19, 2007 @ 12:26 pm

Not anymore. He yanked it. Someone got to him and persuaded/badgered him to pull it. I looked it over earlier and I didn?t see anything to indicate the author's identity.

Comment by Spud / July 19, 2007 @ 12:57 pm

Men who support Keith Olbermann are clinical transexuals.

SLOB,

I think you know that I don't buy into anything you said. We do seem to have one point of agreement; some group made a strategic decision after the election to blow up the mosque and it wasn't the Sunnis.

It isn't really Bush at all that you despise. Your hatred runs through generations and across nations. If all that you believe is true, then Cindy Sheehan, Ron Paul or anyone else won't make a bit of difference. What is your expertise on Sunni-Shiite relations? I admitted I have none, except what I read and listen to from various sources. I have never done an in-depth study. What follows is not about Sunni-Shiite but a point I found interesting from a source I respect: Rusty from mypetjawa:

EXCUSE ME ALL FOR THE CUT AND PASTE JOB:

As to the al Qaeda connection, the current debate about al Qaeda in Iraq vs the al Qaeda is stupid and pointless. Those engaged in it --mostly journalists and politicians -- fundamentally misunderstand the global Salafi jihad. These jihadis do not see themselves as "al Qaeda operatives", they see themselves as true Muslims and mujahideen--warriors for God. We could kill every single al Qaeda operative in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq, and the global jihad would continue under another banner. Al Mashhadani and the Islamic State of Iraq illustrate the point.

The al Qaeda in Afghanistan sent aid to local Islamists opposed to the secular Kurds who had established an independent region under the U.S. no-fly zone in the North of Iraq. Those local Kurdish and Arab fighters called their group Ansar al-Islam. Al Qaeda's emissary to them was one Abu Musab al Zarqawi.

After the invasion, Ansar al Islam's bases were completely annihilated and its fighters fled to Sunni Arab regions of Iraq. Here, Zarqawi rallied some of the remnant under the banner of Tawhid wal Jihad. Other, mostly Kurdish Islamists, operating around Arabized Kurdish cities, such as Mosul, gathered under the banner of Ansar al Sunnah. But both Tawhid wal Jihad and Ansar al Sunnah had prior contact with and financing from the al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

Later, after Zarqawi had become famous for beheading hostages and posting those videos on the internet, he "pledged allegiance to Osama bin Laden". But only the ignorant or those with a political agenda would ever suggest that Zarqawi wasn't already a member of al Qaeda before he ever got to Iraq. "Al Qaeda in the Land of Two Rivers (Iraq)" may have been born at that moment, but clearly the two groups were linked prior to that time.

After Zarqawi's death, al Qaeda in Iraq decided it needed to rebrand itself. Some will recall that Zawahiri had castigated Zarqawi for too many brutal beheading videos, especially of civilians. It just didn't look good to the consuming public. So, after Zarqawi died, al Qaeda formed The Mujahideen Shura Council. (MSC) A "shura council" is an Islamic court and ruling body, thus legitimizing the many murders carried out by al Qaeda as the implementation of Islamic law.

When nobody bought the MSC, they came up with the Islamic State in Iraq and its fictitious leader. But, in the end, the Islamic State of Iraq is really the Mujahidin Shura Council, which is really al Qaeda in Iraq, which is really Tawhid wal Jihad and Ansar al Sunnah, which is really Ansar al Islam, which is really al Qaeda. Different names, same goals and methods.

I think Brian pulled it because it was sent by Keith Olbermann. This is a much better PR stunt (horses ass ratings posters/blame Fox) than the "Bill O'Reilly Mask Nazi salute" he pulled last time.

The Democrat/Liberal point of view would be more tolerable were Keith Olbermann not spinning it so damn hard, mixing it with lies and fear.

Bob @ 2:49: "The Democrat/Liberal point of view would be more tolerable were Keith Olbermann not spinning it so damn hard, mixing it with lies and fear"

All we have to do is substitute Shaun Hannitty / Bill O'Reilly / Rush Limbaugh / Michael Savage, and a few others for "Keith Olbermann" in your statement and then we have an equally true axiom from our point of view.

The only problem is that your side has SO many MORE of them than our side has.

All we have to do is substitute Shaun Hannitty / Bill O'Reilly / Rush Limbaugh / Michael Savage, and a few others for "Keith Olbermann" in your statement and then we have an equally true axiom from our point of view.

The only problem is that your side has SO many MORE of them than our side has.

Posted by: Mike at July 19, 2007 3:03 PM
So if this is true in your mind two wrongs actually do make a right.

So if this is true in your mind two wrongs actually do make a right.

Posted by: yodell at July 19, 2007 3:19 PM

No, the only 'wrong' is the hypocrisy.

Yodell: "So if this is true in your mind two wrongs actually do make a right."

I guess in your mind the one wrong, multiplied by all the fanatical right wing hacks out there...is better?

Can't have any opposition voices from the left, can we?

Tell ya what Yodell, lets get rid of ALL of the political hacks, including Olbermann! Could you go along with that one?

Not possible eh?.....Then I guess the answer is yes in this case: Two wrongs come as close as we can practically come to making a right.

Just more hypocrisy from "mike."

SLOB, I read the story by Blumenthal and watched most, I think, of the video. I had company stop by and I didn't opt to go back to the beginning.

I didn't see the lip sync but I suppose that was poetic license.

Some of the kids definitely looked uncomfortable later on and didn't exhibit the same degree of authority and ease that they did in the earlier part of the interview.

I am always suspicious of anyone who poses their position as you did:

"If any of you chickenhawk drowning-rats have any balls at all you will visit the link above and watch the video,"

Sorry SLOB, I don't, nor have I ever, had 'balls'. Am I now disenfranchised in your idealistic brave new world?

Grammie

Spongemike Fruitypants doesn't have a mind of his own. He gets all his points from the left. (Or takes what someone on the right says and changes it to Hannity/O'Reilly/Limbaugh/Savage and thinks he is making his own point.

More weak "Chickenhawk" arguments. True sign of surrender in a discussion.

Yodell, I loved your idea last night on the 'Debate' thread and made my best effort to get it going.

Grammie

)
Oops. Close parenthesis.

Don't want the grammar police to go off on that tangent.

More weak "Chickenhawk" arguments. True sign of surrender in a discussion.

Posted by: Not a Fan at July 19, 2007 3:34 PM

Its not an "argument", Chickenhawk, its a classification of your character for which none of you cna ever provide a viable alternative.

Valerie Plames "lawsuit" DISMISSED! Keefy is not going to be happy......

By using the "Chickenhawk" argument (which it is. "Chickenhawk" is the conclusion based on the premises that if you support the war and you don't join the service you are a "Chickenhawk." Try learning some logic.), you are negating your own premises. Thusly, if you support your local police department, but you are not a policeman, you must not truly support crime fighting. If you support education, but aren't a teacher, you have no say in the education process. Etc., etc. So yes, it is a weak argument. But thank you for your time.

Yodell, I loved your idea last night on the 'Debate' thread and made my best effort to get it going.

Grammie

Posted by: Janet Hawkins at July 19, 2007 3:39 PM

Thanks, although I don't think either side would agree.I really do think that the Republicans would agree before the Democrats would.

Thusly, if you support your local police department, but you are not a policeman, you must not truly support crime fighting. If you support education, but aren't a teacher, you have no say in the education process. Etc., etc. So yes, it is a weak argument. But thank you for your time.

Posted by: Not a Fan at July 19, 2007 3:47 PM

Best analogy of the week.
Excellent point, too. Let's see slob or "mike" spin and twist this logic.

Thusly, if you support your local police department, but you are not a policeman, you must not truly support crime fighting. If you support education, but aren't a teacher, you have no say in the education process. Etc., etc. So yes, it is a weak argument. But thank you for your time.

Posted by: Not a Fan at July 19, 2007 3:47 PM

If your local police are doing 20-hour shifts, having their vacations and weekends arbitrarilly canceled while the local criminals appear to be only encouraged and made stronger by poorly designed law-enforcement policies, I would think a responsible citizen would have two options: strongly oppose the law-enforcement policies; or join the police-force to help out - at least as an auxillary.

But your analogy is ridiculous on its face. Education and local law-enforcement are essential to our society; invading nations that pose no threat to us is at best a superfluous undertaking; at worst an international crime.

Breaking news- Plame lawsuit thrown outta the courts. SWEET. Once the book deal stops fattening their wallets, maybe these non partisan hacks can go on a speaking tour. Then lefty loons can pay $100 apiece to hear them wax poetically about how corrupt they perceive this administration to be. Maybe the can double-bill it with Paula Jones. Get loons from both sides. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out Weenie Wilson.

WASHINGTON — A federal judge on Thursday dismissed former CIA operative Valerie Plame's lawsuit against members of the Bush administration in the CIA leak scandal.

Plame, the wife of former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, had accused Vice President Dick Cheney and others of conspiring to leak her identity in 2003. Plame said that violated her privacy rights and was illegal retribution for her husband's criticism of the administration.

It isn't really Bush at all that you despise. Your hatred runs through generations and across nations. If all that you believe is true, then Cindy Sheehan, Ron Paul or anyone else won't make a bi't of difference."

Sharon,

You are correct that I believe that individuals "make no diference", in that if given power with no checks and balances, they will be corrupted eventually. My "hatred", as you put it, is directed at the tyrany our founders prepared against when they put together the constitution, and expalined in the Federalist.

Bush and his cabal were fortunate to assume power at a tme when the right wing approaches its decades-long goal of abolishing our constitutonal government in favor of arbitrary rule by an unchecked executive - and I have argued many times that I neither want Nancy Pelosi etc to be the beneficiary of the unconstitutonal situaton the rigt has created for itself, but stands to lose in 2008.

As for "Rusty", he left out the part where Zarqawi lost a leg and then grew it back - both elements of the administration's self-contradictory ascertions of Al Qeada influence in Iraq prior to our invasion.

SLOB,
You can have no say in either education or law enforcement, as you are not in either of those professions. During emergencies (Hurricanes, 911, etc.), hours are stretched and vacations are canceled. Comes with the profession. And i would also submit that our volunteer armed services are essential to our society, as well.

SLOB,
You can have no say in either education or law enforcement, as you are not in either of those professions. During emergencies (Hurricanes, 911, etc.), hours are stretched and vacations are canceled. Comes with the profession. And i would also submit that our volunteer armed services are essential to our society, as well.

Posted by: Not a Fan at July 19, 2007 4:25 PM

Yeah, whatever. Listen; I'm not saying that you have no say in the matter; you are a citizen - you have a say.

I'm just saying that you are a coward that lacks moral integrity. You obviously feel no responsibility to ante-up when it comes to yor own stated convictions that have life-and-death repurcussions. That's all.

....and once again for clarification: "chickenhawk" is in no way an "argument" - it is a stinging insult well-grounded in empirical observation.

The stink of special comment is in the air today,,,,,,,,no doubt another judge in the giant bush conspiracies all over the globe

I'm not even a Bush guy but even i have had enough of Oh hes the stupidist president known to man and yet he can mastermind these evil conspiracies

So I guess you will be running down to your local police department to sign up. Otherwise you are a coward that lacks moral integrity. Unless of course you support the criminals. In which case, your refusal to become a police officer makes your point.

SLOB,
You are wrong.

A logical argument is where if the (premises) basic facts are true, the conclusions that follow must be true.

Premise: Person A supports the war
Premise: Person A does not join the service
Conclusion: Person A is a "Chickenhawk"

Looks like an argument to me. And will look like an argument to any logical thinker.

I won't even get into your "empirical observation" stupidity.

SLOB, for all the back and forth I notice you didn't address my question to you.

I cut you some slack by not asking if I also should be disenfranchised based on my age and disability. I also didn't include the question on what basis would you determine the particulars and how many tests would there be.

You are arguing from the anecdotal individual to the general. I am asking how does your argument apply from the general principle down.

Surely you are not advocating that society structure itself on every individual case instead of general principles.

Grammie

So I guess you will be running down to your local police department to sign up. Otherwise you are a coward that lacks moral integrity. Unless of course you support the criminals. In which case, your refusal to become a police officer makes your point.

Posted by: Not an honest American at July 19, 2007 4:36 PM

You people are amazing: war equates to everyday realities of police protection, public educaton, and fire departments. You are wrong - war is an ominous, last-ditch option for the survival of your society. If faced with a situation requiring war, patriotic citizens should rally to do what they can to protect their country.

I disagree that this situation is upon us - you apparently thnk it is. I assume, from your messages, that you remain comfortably at home or school, with a number of ribbon magnets on your car as your sole altruistic "sacrifice". Pretty fucking lame for an American.

Yeah, whatever. Listen; I'm not saying that you have no say in the matter; you are a citizen - you have a say.

As long as my say agrees with your say,Right?

Surely you are not advocating that society structure itself on every individual case instead of general principles.

Grammie

Posted by: Janet Hawkins at July 19, 2007 4:53 PM

Grammie, I'm talking personal here - wondering in amazement how able-bodied American young men and women can cheer for a war in which they explicitly regard the very idea of their own participation as ludicrous.

As for you, just keep baking those cookies, and no one wll think the less of you.

SLOB,
You are right, I do remain comfortably in my home. I did not choose to join our volunteer armed services. I chose the business field. As an American, I have the right to choose my profession. My brother chose to put his life at risk as a fireman. I also support fire fighters. Yet I am not one. But by your logic, I can't support fire fighters since I am not willing to run into burning buildings. I may agree with some of your other points, but the "Chickenhawk" argument is, as I have shown, a weak argument.

To those labeled as "chickenhawk," by Sir Loin of Milquetoast....

Do not be dismayed....Remember the "empiric character judgements" made by the heroes of Loin like Stalin, Hitler, Ho Chi Minh and Mao...and the results....You see, such unwise people are eventually seen for who they are....hate-filled and narcissistic souls who cannot stop themselves from dehumanizing those who they have disagreement with.....Pity Sir Loin of Milquetoast as he continues to pursue the dead ends of failed philosophies.

Just like one of Loin's ruling elite, the dear Seantor Kerry, who illustrates here why he is one of the true intellectual greats of the left

"Sen. John Kerry said during a C-Span appearance that fears of a bloodbath after the US withdrawal from Vietnam never materialized. He says he's met survivors of the "reeducation camps" who are thriving in modern Vietnam. An award-winning investigation by the Orange County Register concludes that at least 165,000 people perished in the camps."

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/3274.html

###
Congratulations to Senator Kerry for finding absolution from the life-story of one who was "re-educated" under the communists. I am sure it was a wonderful experience to learn the truths from the leftists. I am sure the pogroms supported by Sir Loin of Milquetoast and his brethren will meet such exacting standards.

Yes, this is the democrat party....bought by people like Sir Loin of Milquetoast and others who supported the leftists of North Vietnam in their quest to "re-educate" those poisoned by freedom.

Wonderful.

And this is my post today, the 1,541st day since the declaration of Mission Accomplished in Iraq.....

I am chickenhawkee, good night and good luck.

"I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

"There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration's policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

"I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

"Lefties: Leave these pathetic drowning rats alone to stew in each other's juices. Get yourselves out in the street and fight this criminal administration in ways that really mean something, and that are noted by more than a handful of keyboard heroes!" Sir Loin of Beef

"American liberals need to face these truths: The demand for self-government was and remains strong in Iraq despite all our mistakes and the violent efforts of al Qaeda, Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias to disrupt it." DEMOCRAT Bob Kerrey

"If we end up saying that because these people are committing these acts of terrorism in Iraq or Afghanistan, that we shouldn't have done the removal of Saddam or the removal of the Taliban, then we are making a fundamental mistake about our own future, about security, about the values we should be defending in the world." TONY BLAIR

"You can't bring the troops home if you give George Bush $100 billion to wage this war. You're not supporting them. You're keeping them in harm's way." CINDY SHEEHAN

SLOB,
Do you do as you say? Are you in the front lines at all the anti war rallies? Are you willing to go to Iraq to be a human shield? Do you call your representative constantly? Do you march on the Capitol? Or do you merely sit comfortably in your home and do your anti warring in the security and safety of your normal life?

I won't even get into your "empirical observation" stupidity.

Posted by: Not a Fan at July 19, 2007 4:46 PM

This does not surpirse me; the right today openly disdains emiricism. It s the only way they can get through a day.

I may agree with some of your other points, but the "Chickenhawk" argument is, as I have shown, a weak argument.

Posted by: Not a Fan at July 19, 2007 5:05 PM

OK, sure - but CANNOT effectively argue that I find you to be a moral coward for remaining comfotably at home while your political will sends others off to die and kill for a cause you consider worthwhile - particularly given the stop-loss pressures being put on our over-deployed troops by the administration and their obstructionist legislative minority minions.

SLOB,
Do you do as you say? Are you in the front lines at all the anti war rallies? Are you willing to go to Iraq to be a human shield? Do you call your representative constantly? Do you march on the Capitol? Or do you merely sit comfortably in your home and do your anti warring in the security and safety of your normal life?

Posted by: Not a Fan at July 19, 2007 5:09 PM

Never been a "human shield"; I have not attended "all" of the rallys, as that would be physically impossible; but otherwise: yes. I've shouted at the White House a number of times, and at Bush in other states as often as I can get near him.

I write to my own congressman and everybody's senators; I regail the readers of "letters to the editor" pages frequently, when they print me. I do what I can within the law.

No. I won't get into it because DATA is empirical. Gathered through experimentation or OBSERVATION. "Empirical" is not an adjective for "observation." I'm not being the grammar police, either. You used the term incorrectly.

SLOB,
You can find me to be moral coward all you wish. I would expect nothing less than for you to further your elitist thinking towards me. And I guess I will consider you to be a big wussy since you aren't a fireman.
Actually, I won't. I don't subscribe to your illogical line of reasoning. If you choose not to be a fireman in our society, where we can choose the career path of our own liking, that is your choice in our great country. I have reduced your "Chickenhawk" argument to nothing, so I expect the character assassination.

SLOB, a very deft and adroit answer.

I've mentioned before that I have no doubt that you are not only an intelligent man but also probably a well educated man. What I didn't realize until today is that you are also simultaneously cynical and idealistic.

My youthful idealism died a sudden and violent death when Castro showed his true colors. That was the same time I developed my interest in WW II and was developing knowledge of all that that encompassed.

I don't understand how you can simultaneously believe that anyone who supports our current foreign policy must be part of the military but everyone else gets a pass if they don't forsake all to implement what they support. SLOB, thats life.

Grammie

This just in:

Federal judge drops the double nought spie's lawsuit against the Bush administration.

Wonder how Olbyshitter will spin this tonight. I'm sure he'll try to say GW had some affect on this judge. What were some of the wordss he used to describe the Libby pardon: destruction of the Constitution, the crime of the Century, the greatest harm to our country.............................She was no more and undercover operative than Bill Clinton was actually a president. She and her husband like many others had meaningless, no accountability, non-productive, non-supervised jobs sucking money off the tax payers.

Wonder if Olby or any of his loons (AKA monkeys that swing from his nuts like ornaments on a Christmas tree, you know who you are) ever thought you are questioning the intergrity of these judges, the Constitution, Bill of Rights.......by saying GW has somehow gotten by with it? Hum.

Have you ever thought that George Bush is doing his job and that he never broke any law or violated anyone's civil rights?

I wonder how one man can get by with so much. Bill Clinton must have been a stupid son of a bitch to have the last half of his administration destroyed over a blow job. I guess GW is just smarter than liberals but then again that aint saying much. How can you explain it?

SLOB said:
You are correct that I believe that individuals "make no diference", in that if given power with no checks and balances, they will be corrupted eventually. My "hatred", as you put it, is directed at the tyrany our founders prepared against when they put together the constitution, and expalined in the Federalist.

Bush and his cabal were fortunate to assume power at a tme when the right wing approaches its decades-long goal of abolishing our constitutonal government in favor of arbitrary rule by an unchecked executive - and I have argued many times that I neither want Nancy Pelosi etc to be the beneficiary of the unconstitutonal situaton the rigt has created for itself, but stands to lose in 2008.

================================

He should really get some historical perspective.

Jonah, you mind helping us out?
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OGZhMWRiOTg1NzAwZDA0MGU1M2Y3YTNjNWEyOWQ4ZmQ=

American Absurdity
Partisan amnesia and imperial presidents.

By Jonah Goldberg

At a candidate forum for trial lawyers in Chicago on Sunday, Hillary Clinton proclaimed that the Bush administration is “the most radical presidency we have ever had.”

This is, quite simply, absurd. But such boob-bait for the Bush bashers is common today in Democratic circles, just as similar right-wing rhetoric about Bill Clinton was par for the course a decade ago. The culture war, it seems, has distorted how we view politics more than we realized. Trust in government is at historic lows, but faith in one’s own “team” remains remarkably durable. (President Bush’s job-approval rating among Republicans is 80 percent, according to Rasmussen.)

Only someone suffering partisan amnesia could believe Bush has been a more “radical” president than, say, Woodrow Wilson, under whom antiwar dissidents were thrown in jail and beaten in the streets. Wilson was the first president to openly deride the Constitution, mocking the “Fourth of July sentiments” of those who cared too much about its meaning. Where Bush reaches out to American Muslims and illegal immigrants, Wilson demonized immigrants and “hyphenated Americans” with a venom unimaginable today. “I cannot say too often — any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this republic,” Wilson said in 1919.

For much of the 20th century, American conservatives saw themselves as opponents of the imperial presidency, as embodied by Wilson and, later, FDR (as discussed at length by Gene Healy at Cato's blog ). In 1964, for instance, Barry Goldwater cast himself as the candidate against strongman government (and, revealingly, lost badly). But conservatives began to change their tune when the New Deal/Great Society consensus started to unravel and they discovered that the presidency could be theirs if they made peace with it.

In fact, some conservatives viewed Richard Nixon’s downfall as the product of an unfair double standard because Democratic presidents had gotten away with metaphorical murder for years. Liberals who traditionally had seen nothing wrong with strongman presidencies (liberal-hero journalist Walter Lippmann urged FDR to assume “dictatorial powers”) changed their tune under Nixon as well.

“Those who tried to warn us back at the beginning of the New Deal of the dangers of one-man rule that lay ahead on the path we were taking toward strong, centralized government may not have been so wrong,” then-California Sen. Alan Cranston conceded at the height of Watergate in 1973.

Stephen F. Hayes’s riveting new biography, Cheney, recounts a discussion in 1980 at the American Enterprise Institute between two new congressmen, Dick Cheney and Newt Gingrich.

“Congress has been a big part of the problem,” declared Cheney, a veteran of the Ford administration. “A fundamental problem has been the extent to which we have restrained presidential authority over the last several years. ... We have been concerned with the so-called myth of the imperial presidency.

“We must restore some balance” between Congress and the White House, Cheney insisted.

Gingrich vehemently disagreed. “What we need is a stronger Congress, not a weaker Congress,” he shot back. “The greatest danger of the Reagan administration is that conservatives will decide they can trust imperial presidents as long as they are right-wing when they are imperial.”

I’d be curious to know if Gingrich still feels that way, now that his hungry eyes seem focused on the presidency. But the Newt of 1980 was definitely on to something. Today, most people object to the imperial presidency only when the other party controls the White House.

At Sunday’s conference, for example, Sen. Barack Obama proclaimed that “people are tired of Scooter Libby justice.” Clinton’s pardons for loyalist Susan McDougal, billionaire tax evader Marc Rich and Puerto Rican terrorists apparently slipped down the memory hole.

For eight years, the right screamed bloody murder about Clinton’s overreaching. He minted new executive privileges, “accidentally” rummaged through the FBI files of political opponents and sought electronic wiretapping powers — during peacetime — that today are denounced. Some on the right feared we were on a slippery slope to tyranny. Liberals often chortled about such right-wing paranoia.

Today, the dynamic is reversed. Liberals fret over creeping fascism while conservatives give Bush the benefit of the doubt. Both sides are open to charges of hypocrisy, and neither is immune to partisan amnesia. The only consistent crowd are the Libertarians, who distrust all government power.

I wish I had some solution to offer, but my guess is there is none. Indeed, you can be sure that if Hillary Clinton is elected president, someone will denounce her as “the most radical president we’ve ever had” — whether it’s true or not.

hey SLOB, what's your opinion on people that DO support the war and HAVE tried to sign up for the armed forces but are disqualified from service for a variety of reasons? (and I have some family and friends over there too)

maybe you ought to be slow, or at least humble in tossing the "coward" label around. you don't know everything about the person, so break from lefty traditions and debate just the arguments instead of insulting someone you can no nothing about. (after all, I could claim to be shooting at insurgents right now and you wouldn't really be able to disprove me now would you?)

Thanks 'None', for posting something that is almost never seen on this board.....a balanced perspective!

"Laura Bush", the OW psycho drones...."You da man."

An you da idiot!

I'm telling you Mike, National Review can be a lot more balanced than you think. You ever watched the Jonah-Peter debates?
http://www.nationalreview.com/video/archives/

We could all learn something about selfishness from someone who rates a president based on how much his own personal net worth has increased.

Hillary the Embolder!

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Pentagon told Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Rodham Clinton that her questions about how the U.S. plans to eventually withdraw from Iraq boosts enemy propaganda.
In a stinging rebuke to a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Undersecretary of Defense Eric Edelman responded to questions Clinton raised in May in which she urged the Pentagon to start planning now for the withdrawal of American forces.

A copy of Edelman's response, dated July 16, was obtained Thursday by The Associated Press.

"Premature and public discussion of the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq reinforces enemy propaganda that the United States will abandon its allies in Iraq, much as we are perceived to have done in Vietnam, Lebanon and Somalia," Edelman wrote.

What allies in Iraq, Jeff?

What allies in Iraq, Jeff?

the ones at...
http://theotheriraq.com

None, you hit a grand slam with that copy and paste.

I am on record in the last month or so that the Presidency had been drastically weakened from the Watergate era. That Ronaldus Magnificu started the reversal to a stronger Executive Branch leading to GWB's continuance of the trend. I applauded the shift because I support the idea of a strong Executive and GWB was a piker compared to some earlier Presidents.

That essay does give one pause, though. But, of course there had to be a 'but', I think I still trust the fact that the shared power among the three branches waxes and wanes and somehow we have always come back to an even keel.

Even today when we have so many howling that the Constitution has been shredded we see several illegal aliens and enemy combatants get two, three or four days in court. And not just in minor courts. Their cases are heard in the highest courts of the land.

I'll put my money on the historical record. However, I hope I can keep Jonah Goldberg's essay in mind.

Grammie

What allies in Iraq, Jeff?

Posted by: Mike at July 19, 2007 6:18 PM

Only an idiot would ask that question......I rest my case.

What allies in Iraq, Jeff?

Posted by: Mike at July 19, 2007 6:18 PM

-------------

Sometimes, I have a hard time making out the gibberish of the unfortunate Ms. Hawkins and the illiterate utterances of Monsieur Royal, so a guess: Maybe, he's talking about Bush's allies, not America's. Cheney and Liebermann. That makes more sense to me, Mike.

Only Mrs. Philby would give an answer like that.

Olbyloon Ed 101e
Subject: Allies/Coalition Forces in Iraq
Todays Bearer of the Dunce Cap: "mike"

What allies in Iraq, Jeff? Asks the dunce.

Posted by:the envelope stuffer

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_orbat_coalition.htm

The only funny thing about rightwingers is their lack of respect for the laws of the land. It is too bad that the pretzel did not kill this vile piece of shit some people call the president. Give him a bag of pretzels and a gun.. One of the two ought to work.

"hey SLOB, what's your opinion on people that DO support the war and HAVE tried to sign up for the armed forces but are disqualified from service for a variety of reasons? (and I have some family and friends over there too)"

Those people have "put their money where their mouth is", and are merely wrong, instead of being both wrong and cowardly/selfish.

I wish I had some solution to offer, but my guess is there is none. Indeed, you can be sure that if Hillary Clinton is elected president, someone will denounce her as “the most radical president we’ve ever had” — whether it’s true or not.

Posted by: None at July 19, 2007 5:57 PM

If impeachment is not unlimbered against Bush for breaking the FISA laws, the Hatch act, and for disregarding our obligations to the Genva Conventions (just for starters), then I would guess that whoever is elected president from whatever party will be "the most radical president we have ever had". These precedents tend to stick around, and power drives the powerful to seek more power.

- Gingrich really said that? I must admit I am floored by that, given the rest of his track record.

I put no stock in anything Hillary has ever said, and I agree that Wilson was a dick, and an institutional racist to boot. But when previous presidents have assumed "dictatorial powers" in the past (Lincoln, FDR) there was the recognition that these conditions would pass when the salient emergies that prompted these measures (Civil war; WWII) were over - and that is exactly what came to pass.

With the Bush admin, however, statements have been issued suggesting that the "Long War" (an invented condition, as opposed to previous national emergencies) may never end; that Habeas Corpus is NOT enshrined in the constitution; and that the constitution is just "a scrap os paper" hindering the president from doing what he sees fit.

These people, making such claims during a phase of history characterized by the unprecedented corporate-owned media saturation of our society, pose a particular danger to our democracy.

A "strong president" linked incestuously to the Military Industrial Complex so clearly and eloquently defined and denounced by Dwight Eisenhower, is the death-knell of American democracy.

Quick. Name 3 successful republican comedians.

Ok..two.

How about one ?

Posted by: at July 19, 2007 9:01 PM

Rick Santorum was fucking hillarious.

Even today when we have so many howling that the Constitution has been shredded we see several illegal aliens and enemy combatants get two, three or four days in court. And not just in minor courts. Their cases are heard in the highest courts of the land.

I'll put my money on the historical record. However, I hope I can keep Jonah Goldberg's essay in mind.

Grammie

Posted by: Janet Hawkins at July 19, 2007 6:44 PM

Ever play monopoly, Janet? Typically, the player who starts winning ends up winning it all. Now imagine a variation in which the winning player gets to change the rules at each turn, and can pay key opponents to back his play. Eventually that winning player will make a rule that the game will not end when he owns the whole board, and a sad marathon of one-player rule will ensue.

But no, you just go ahead with your passive faith that "somehow we will come back to an even keel".

Where does one begin; well I guess I keep Herr Keithermann in 3rd place; because it is mildly entertaining, like watching a car wreck. Then he does something stupid like
not rebutting Al Zawahiri's insults; who you would think has to be in the worse person in the world World Series; from Luxor
bombings to 9/11 and a myriad other crimes. You want other nominees; any major imam at Al Alzhar mosque in Cairo; decrying the infidels. Ahmadinejad denying the Holocaust ,and promising another one.with backup from David Duke and that psychotic Neturi Kartei. The Phelps brrod of Democratic gay bashing, troop slamming, scum. The imam at La Masjid moque; who was inciting civil war against Musharaf. Al
Sharpton's hypocritical record of inciting violence; (Freddy's fashion Mart, Crown Heights; the Tawana Brawley fraud; 'Wile E
Coyote' in a red Beret Hugoi Chavez, Fidel; Castro, Mugabe, the ruling Sudanese junta
carrying out Darfur; and it has nothing to do with global warming.

That bit about the Iraqi doctor, that Keith &
L.J; had so much fun belittling (you would think someone who is in the security consulting biz & wrote two monthes before
9/11 that terrorism was an overblown problem; but was sure in June 1996 that
TWA 800 was a terrorist hit; would be more
careful of his statements) had been radicalized in Jordan, back in 2000; that was when there was an Al Queda plot disrupted around that time

Oh but per Olby's comments onTVN today only Fox uses those old outdated ratings which show him in third/fourth place. I guess he and TVN and the rest of the MSM use those super secret ratings which show him far surpassing Fox huh? Their fictional world is quite amusing to see sometimes. Today was one of those days.

"My youthful idealism died a sudden and violent death when Castro showed his true colors. That was the same time I developed my interest in WW II and was developing knowledge of all that that encompassed."

I understand you very well here, Janet. But have you ever asked yourself what would have ensued had Castro not "showed his true colors"?

There is no doubt in my mind that superpower pressure and corporate/government money from the US would have in no time revived the brutal Batista plantation/corporate fiefdom that had preceded the furious popular revolution.

Chavez in Venezuela is facing the same pressures, and many decry his recent closing of the foreign (American/British) owned media that had suvived their initiation and support of the failed 2002 military coup against him (that the Bush admin had recognized and applauded prior to Chavez' unforeseen resurgence and victory).

Can't you understand that some leaders and their constituents simply don't like the idea of being turned into nothing but corporate-owned suppliers of America's oil, bananas, baseballs, and cigars?

SLOB,
You can find me to be moral coward all you wish. I would expect nothing less than for you to further your elitist thinking towards me. And I guess I will consider you to be a big wussy since you aren't a fireman.
Actually, I won't. I don't subscribe to your illogical line of reasoning. If you choose not to be a fireman in our society, where we can choose the career path of our own liking, that is your choice in our great country. I have reduced your "Chickenhawk" argument to nothing, so I expect the character assassination.

Posted by: Not a Fan at July 19, 2007 5:25 PM

If my neighborhood is on fire and the local fire-department appears unable to quench the conflagration - or seems in fact to be making it worse - then guess what?

Suddenly I make myself a fireman!

If my neighborhood is on fire and the local fire-department appears unable to quench the conflagration - or seems in fact to be making it worse - then guess what?

Suddenly I make myself a fireman!

Posted by: SIr Loin of Beef at July 19, 2007 10:17 PM

Well, since you've extrapolated the analogy out to this --- since the U.S.A. IS your neighborhood too..... shouldn't you be enlisting as well?

Insert-- illness--- here.

Well, since you've extrapolated the analogy out to this --- since the U.S.A. IS your neighborhood too..... shouldn't you be enlisting as well?

Insert-- illness--- here.

Posted by: Cecelia at July 19, 2007 10:33 PM

There's the rub - I clearly percieve that there is no fire - that Bush et. al. phoned in a crank alarm (a crime, I believe). The firemen who have been sent in, however, keeping busting open doors with their axes - with the best of intentions, and getting themselves shot by the alarmed residents.

But this is a stupid analogy, which I followed part way to try to get through to Not A Fan.

I will say it one more time; if I believed that there was a true existential threat facing our country - (a fairy-tale which is asserted daily by war-supporters) - there is no way I would fail to report for whatever duty I might be deemed fit to perform. I would urge my children upon maturity to do their part; that there might remain an America for their children to grow up in. I would not shrug my shoulders and ignore reports of repeatedly extended tours and third and fourth forced/coerced redeployments of an over-stressed volunteer force.

Many noble people who for whatever reason believe Bush's lies do respond in this way (many, many fewer these days); but pretty much all of you, apparently, -and most definitely everyone in the Bush administration - do not.

>Reading Cecelia's posts make my head hurt.

Posted by: at July 19, 2007 10:49 PM

That's Odd, it's writing them that makes her head hurt.

It shouldn't, there's nothing inside her head to make it hurt.

Having just watched yet another clip of King Bush telling reporters with a straight face that "the terrorists in Iraq are the same people that attacked us on 911" in his simplistic, exasperated manner, I have to ask the Bush supporters the same question I've asked many times in one way or another:

HOW can you still support and defend this absolute MORON!!!!

A certain olbyloon doesn't know who our allies are in Iraq and he has the gall to call President Bush a moron?

Olbyloon Ed 101e
Subject: Allies/Coalition Forces in Iraq
Todays Bearer of the Dunce Cap: "mike"

What allies in Iraq, Jeff? Asks the dunce.

Posted by:the envelope stuffer

A Clarification of my 12:15 post: .....How can you Bush supporters who are not obvious morons like Jeff, still support and defend this absolute moron??

More news right wingers will ignore....

Yeah, because we know a bunch of jackass morons will scream about it.

Oh yeah that fair and balanced Washington Post.

Olby screaming something about kids being sent off to war in his retarded comments?

Wow! when did the draft start up? Oh I forgot, this is kook land.

The real truth? You wouldn't know it if it bit you in the ass!

By the way where's A.C.C.S.? Sitting in front of his Tandy Computer waiting for ESchantz to post?

John Kerry was on Washington Journal this morning with Sue Swain. Responding to a caller about Vietnam. Kerry said he had spoken to people that had to go through reprograming camp. Kerry said it was no picnic but those people looked like they were doing well.

And this goof came within a few thousand votes of becoming President.

This just in! Well it's about a week old. Maury Povich just signed onto Channel 11 in New York for another three years. Which is good news for all you crack pot jackasses like Loin of Scrapple.

Yeah, you get three more years to try to find out.....WHO'S YOU'RE DADDY!!!!!!!!

Cee, Loin enlist to become a fireman? They wouldn't take him. This is a moron that gets on a bus with other morons and gos to Washington so they can yell at buildings.

Yell at buildings. Now thats gona get something done.

Oh by the way folks, Jerry Doyle did an absolute rip job on Harry Reid today. You can find his podcast at www910knew.com
7-19-07 hour two. It's a flame thrower.

Gannie, Cee, I highly recomend it!!

Hey Loin I play Monopoly. But how many times a week do you play naked twister with your-self?

Now look jack-ass I don't have time to stick around and read your dopey response, so let me give you mine.

You're an ass-hole!

You're a coward!

You're a basement dweller. (Like you're buddy A.C.C.S.)

You yell at buildings ( Oh you already admit that)

You're more than a few fries short of a happy meal.

Did I say jackass?

Whatever.

Oh Mike, I didn't notice you walk in.

Got thrown out of the bar again?

What is your drink of choice?

MD 20/20? or Night Train Express?

Mike? this just in. YOU ARE A MORON!

That you could put two sentences together floors me!

Puck, do you sound like a babbling psycho when you talk to real people in person?...Or is it just when you try to make an on-line post?

So Puck, you weren't talking to me in your first rambling, babbling, incoherent collection of meaningless words and insults?

Then who the hell WERE you talking to?

So the military gives Hillary a raft of shit and Olby goes berserk. Gotta love it!! HA!

JetKos Airlines

The official Airlines of Tin Foil Idiots from the land where the Buses don't run.

How bout that O'Reilly? Reports on something and somethings happens.

Unlike Dopey where he reports on something and THE VAST MAJORITY of people just laugh at it.

Yeah Mike, THE FIRST PLACE BILL O' REILLY!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Ah Mike I gave up heavy drinking many years ago. But IT'S GOOD TO SEE THAT YOU CAN UNDERSTAND ME ! Which means I can still talk to broken down drunks like you.

By the way Mike what step on the 12 step program are you on?

Sounds by your drivel you have a hard time staying on the first one.

By the way Mike I don't consider you real at all.

But you know Mike when that's the best you're Alchoholic mushed mind can come up. I've done my job.

Hey Mike, THE FIRST PLACE BILL O'REILLY!!

Babbling Psycho?

Mike, you think your normal?

You must live in New Jersey.

Hey Mike, Why don't you go and listen to the Jerry Doyle podcast and hear Jerry rip into your buddy Harry Reid.

Mike, you do know what a podcast is right?

"Mike, you do know what a podcast is right?"

I know the rants of a babbling right wing fringe psycho like you when I see one!

Every time I read one of your collection of one liner rants, it reminds me of one of those street corner preachers yelling at everyone through a bullhorn as they pass.

Everyone is mildly curious what the hell he was saying, but nobody wants to know bad enough to go back and ask him.

Olbyloon Ed for "mike" and slob. A list of our ALIES in Iraq fighting so you can shoot your mouth off and defend the enemy. The "whole world" doesn't hate us like you loons would LIKE to think. I use the term "think" VERY loosely....

1 United Kingdom
2 South Korea
3 Australia
4 Poland
5 Romania
6 Denmark
7 El Salvador
8 Georgia
9 Azerbaijan
10 Bulgaria
11 Latvia
12 Albania
13 Czech Republic
14 Mongolia
15 Lithuania
16 Armenia
17 Bosnia & Herzegovina
18 Estonia
19 Macedonia
20 Kazakhstan
21 Moldova

puck ,"mike" lives in Nifong country, shocker!

ALLIES!!!!......LMAO!

"A coalition of the willing"......LOL

I sure do appreciate how all them brave Moldavians are putting their lives on the line daily...just for us.

Jeff....what a riot you are, you pathetic pawn! ..... LMAO!

The not so "patriotic" right wing is getting their hatred revved up again. The liberals stay in hate mode.

Posted by:nobody gives a shit who you are at July 20, 2007 1:09 AM

That's nothing, just wait till the Swift Boaters and Dick Morris come out swinging!

sure do appreciate how all them brave Moldavians are putting their lives on the line daily...just for us.

Jeff....what a riot you are, you pathetic pawn! ..... LMAO!

Posted by: Mike at July 20, 2007 1:30 AM

Only an idiot like you would laugh at people fighting to keep you safe. Showing your true colors, like we didn't know you were a selfish asshole, anyways.

Jeff...To use one of your examples,,,,lets talk about 'Muldova' again:

As of February, there were 12 Muldovian 'Allies' in Iraq....down from a peak of 24.

You are pathetic Jeff.........LMAO!

1:36 on Jaff: "He is incapable of learning anything"

Not quite....He soaks up everything that comes out of Michael Savage's filthy lying mouth like a sponge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j63wx4UATJU

The liberals in New York can't fix their own gas lines and that's Bush's fault? Get lost.

Canned Heat...very cool !

Posted by: Why do you care what my name is at July 20, 2007 1:58 AM

I hoped someone would click on that link. It;s a feeling we are missing so much these days. I know I got a buzz just from hearing it. It's the wat it should be.

The RoyalDouche thinks the Iraq War is keeping us safe.

He is incapable of learning anything.

Posted by: at July 20, 2007 1:36 AM

Who's keeping you safe, Hussain Barrack? By teaching kindergartners sex ed?

Canned Heat...very cool !

Posted by: Why do you care what my name is at July 20, 2007 1:58 AM

Drug addict music, perfect for the olbyloons.

The American Society of Civil Engineers estimates that it will take $1.6 trillion over the next five years to get the nation's roads, bridges, dams, water systems and airports into good condition

Nobody gives a shit what your name is, News flash! Our roads were hammered LONG before the war started. I live in CA. I have first hand knowledge, a good friend of mine works for Cal Trans. Grey out Davis was stealing road money for a LONG time. His ass got the boot!

Drug addict music, perfect for the olbyloons.

Posted by: at July 20, 2007 2:06 AM

No. Its music that brings loving and good people together. that song is everything that your attitude can never crush in me. The drugs are long gone, but that feeling of wanting togetherness lives on, and your sick leaders will be long dead while it still lives on, in spite of the hatred that you love so much.

The Royalfraud is the anthesisis of peace, love and understanding.
A reject from the Nixon years.

Posted by: Why do you care what my name is at July 20, 2007 2:22 AM

What some people don't seem to understand about peace, love and understanding, is that the opposite is a bullet in your head. I still stand by that vision, in that big ol bikers song in spite of people who have done everything they can to promote someone taking a shot at "us". They think they are the culture warriors, saving us from the enemy that they make.

First check your fav site boycottliberalism to see who they recommend. Maybe Toby Keith ?

Posted by: Why do you care what my name is at July 20, 2007 2:12 AM

Toby Keith is NOT on the boycott list. The liberals hate him, too. Remember the "boot in your ass" song? Great song, by the way.

Whines codumbass:

"What some people don't seem to understand about peace, love and understanding, is that the opposite is a bullet in your head. I still stand by that vision, in that big ol bikers song in spite of people who have done everything they can to promote someone taking a shot at "us". They think they are the culture warriors, saving us from the enemy that they make."

END QUOTE

Look up the definition of terrorism and look past the pciture part where your mug appears because you are whipped.

The reason we are being shot at you stupid shit is because countries like France, Germany and Russia are selfish, have economies that are about to tank, abusing every civil right they can for oil and broke UN Treaty 1441, Oil for Food. Then you have assholes like you and the rest of the liberals that have fought our President every step of the way. Why would anyone support us when they see the divide in our country? You are a fucking idiot if you do not think the opposition in our country doens not fuel the insurgency.

I hope liberals take over. I hope Hitlery wins with Barack O'Sambo Bib Laden as the VP. I hope they let the Gitmo prisoners out and hell, lets pass out a few suitcase nukes and give them plane tickets to NYC, San Fag, LA, Chicago, Detroit. When the Middle East blows up, then we'll see how your attitude is when you are out walking the strets looking for something to eat. You won;t last long, it's a fact loser whiners like you are the first to lie down and die and the first signs of adversity. I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully I'll be able to find Olby for someone else does.

Says Why Do You Care Who...

"A reject from the Nixon years."

END QUOTE

Yeah? ANd now with have spoiled shits like you that don;t have a clue what it was really like growing up in the US 40-50 years ago. Now with have rejects falling out the assholes of Mike Moore, Rosie and Bill Mahre.

I'll take a kid educated in the 60's in the sixth grade that would test higher on a SAT than some stupid shit senior today including you Mr. Loser. We said prayer and did the Pledge every day. We got the shit beat out of us when we did wrong. Hell, we even did drills in case of nukes. Every night Walter COnkrite showed the globe turning red like someone pouring red paint on it showing the spread of communsim. Um, you little bastards whine about Iraq, we fought in Nam for almost 10 years and lost 56,000 men in a war started by a liberal.

Now, you shits today are supposed to be educated so much you question the existence of God and yet SAT scores are in decline and we are falling way behind in technical skills. Personally it's a good thing for me. I learned 15 years ago I would never have to worry about getting a job and there is sure no competition coming out of schools. We hired a guy on a coop program that was a senior ME. HE worked with me for a summer. That was the dumbest shit I ever been around. But then again I graduated from college 26 years ago. I wanted him to write and equation in Excel to balance a high tool we use. We had the end points from the manufacture dor the min and max diameters. I told him to write the equation by interpolating it for points in between. He couldn;t do it. He went on the net. What a joke. Senior ME my ass. When I was in school there were no calculators. We used trig table and you had to interpolate. We got three channels on TV. No Ipods, no cells.

You are too ignoroant to know you are spoiled and stupid.

My god, can you imagine having to work with a rancid old crank like Laura? "Why, when I was a kid we had to lick the road clean with our tongues".

You don't sound any older than me, bitch; and for your information this country has been spoiled rotten since WWII, so get off your pedestal.

Are you still drunk from last night? that guy you were boring the shit out of left hours ago.

There's the rub - I clearly percieve that there is no fire - that Bush et. al. phoned in a crank alarm (a crime, I believe). The firemen who have been sent in, however, keeping busting open doors with their axes - with the best of intentions, and getting themselves shot by the alarmed residents.

But this is a stupid analogy, which I followed part way to try to get through to Not A Fan.

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at July 19, 2007 11:16 PM

When you extrapolated Not A Fan's analogy you said:

"If my neighborhood is on fire and the local fire-department appears unable to quench the conflagration - or seems in fact to be making it worse - then guess what?

Suddenly I make myself a fireman!"

There's a clear reference here to Iraq being out of control, that there isn't help and that the help there isn't about to do a good job. You made this point in order to imply that Not a Fan is a hypocrite for not being over in Iraq.

Yeah, well, with your extrapolation you are too. YOUR country is in trouble. YOU make yourself a "fireman".

It's likely that you think that you are a "fireman" in the sense that you trying to put out the fire by your active opposition to the war. That supportive roles in one sense or the other don't necessarily boil down to one role.

Well, kindly allow the same for your opponents, Sir Loin. One can play a role in suporting the fire department without being a fireman, on both sides.

Cecelia,

Like I've said - I'm doing all I can within the law to get rid of America's most dangerous enemies - the Bush administration. Your pal/alter-ego cee says I should blow up our troop transports in order to be an honest broker in this regard, but he can go fuck himself. We still have a constitution; I wear myself out trying to get our legislators to use it.

Well, kindly allow the same for your opponents, Sir Loin. One can play a role in suporting the fire department without being a fireman, on both sides.

Posted by: Cecelia at July 20, 2007 11:02 AM

You mean "keep shopping"?; as Bush notoriously admonished following 9/11; basically his only call to national action other than a general "keep your traps shut".

Cecelia,

Like I've said - I'm doing all I can within the law to get rid of America's most dangerous enemies - the Bush administration. Your pal/alter-ego cee says I should blow up our troop transports in order to be an honest broker in this regard, but he can go fuck himself. We still have a constitution; I wear myself out trying to get our legislators to use it.

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at July 20, 2007 11:10 AM

Sir Loin,

I have no quarrel with your thinking that you support the war by opposing it. From what you have said, you're very proactive in your real life in pressuring pols to disengage from Iraq.

I have no reason to believe that this isn't the case and (for the most part) you've been equally critical of anyone who failed to meet your standards.

You're a commie but you're a good guy, I don't doubt, Sir Loin.

I think Cee's argument is off base in the same way that anyone who argue that prolifers should be using violent tactics to prevent what they consider to be "murder" would be off-base.

But you're unfair in this gotya technique you use on war supporters no matter how much you hate the notion that Bush wanted a no personal sacrifice TV sitcom war in order to appease voters.

I have no quarrel with your thinking that you support the war by opposing it"

I support the country by opposing the war.

But you're unfair in this gotya technique you use on war supporters no matter how much you hate the notion that Bush wanted a no personal sacrifice TV sitcom war in order to appease voters.

Posted by: Cecelia at July 20, 2007 11:23 AM

...and to consolidate his power and make his croney's fabulously wealthy - don't forget those.

Thank you for your civilized response, but we disagree on some very fundamental levels regarding citizenship and moral integrity. After months going around on this issue, I think this is as far as we can get.

I hope liberals take over. I hope Hitlery wins with Barack O'Sambo Bib Laden as the VP. I hope they let the Gitmo prisoners out and hell, lets pass out a few suitcase nukes and give them plane tickets to NYC, San Fag, LA, Chicago, Detroit. When the Middle East blows up, then we'll see how your attitude is when you are out walking the strets looking for something to eat. You won;t last long, it's a fact loser whiners like you are the first to lie down and die and the first signs of adversity. I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully I'll be able to find Olby for someone else does.

Posted by: Laura Bush at July 20, 2007 8:51 AM

Your idiocy speaks loud and for itself.