I guess Keith's getting ready for his big show on the main network, where he's not going to get political during football broadcasts, he'll just get it all about before the football comes on.

Olbermann is lying again. He still owns the $4.2 Million dollar apartment he brought back in April accoding to the real estate records of New York City. The apartment shows no transfers and no sales since that time.

Oh and he also hasn't been on ESPN radio in weeks, even missing Dan Patrick's last week on air. Can we say "l-i-a-r"?

Olbermann used to live at 220 Central Park South. That entire building is being either redeveloped or demolished (not sure of current plans but that was the latest I heard a couple of months ago). Anyway, I do know this: that building has always been rental units and at NO time was the option given to residents to BUY the apartments they were living in when the plans were announced to repurpose the space. Liar doesn't even begin to cover what Olbermann is.

The story that Olby depicted
Is a lie because he was evicted
To Trump Tower he'll go
Colleague's daughter in tow
Of the truth Keith won't be convicted

NBC is no doubt making sure that Sunday's "Countdown" is as pre-scripted and bland as possible, which may not entirely be the news division's doing. No doubt the folks at NBC Sports have been pleading with the top execs to make sure Keith doesn't come off as a bigger goober than Mr. Peanut just before their preseason football game, not only to avoid antagonizing that audience, but to prevent their revamped Sunday night pre-game show from being caught up in a whirlwind of non-sports controversy before the first show even airs. So expect Sunday's show to be pretty toned down from the normal "Countdown", which means while conservatives won't be happy about Keith getting the timeslot in the first place, liberals aren't going to be happy about the Olbermann-on-Ritalin performance they're likely to see.

(And while Keith would no doubt love to tell NFL viewers that George W. Bush is somehow behind the Michael Vick dogfighting controversy, if he does try to sneak snark into the pregame show, it will be fun to see if Republican Al Michaels tosses some right back at Olbermann while he's doing the play-by-play).

Here's another lie being spread by our good friend Keith. On Keith's blog "Newshole" right now, he says that over 700,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed in Iraq since the beginning of the war. Of course anybody who is interested in the facts instead of b.s. numbers used solely for shock value know that the actual number is likely 7 to 10 times lower than that according to the United Nations and the anti-war website Iraq Body Count. I hope that Keith Olbermann and MSNBC will do the honorable thing and correct that false casulty number.

No Keith again but on with the show
We don't mind the lovely bimbo
Dingbat general wants to lose in Iraq
Where did they get this retired hack
To our troops' morale it's another low blow

Anyone interested int he facts, would make their best effort to use qualified sources and research for their claims, I don't see any in your post.

That said, it depends on how you qualify those deaths. Were they killed or did they die by some other method (natural causes, lack of medical attention, etc.); if they were killed, were their deaths the direct results of interaction with coalition forces (keep in mind that U.S. military counts tend to be significantly lower than general population estimates, based on an understandably narrower definition of COD).

So, when anyone, anyone, starts throwing numbers around, the least they can do is share a sentence or two, or at least a source before using one count to define another's without equivocation.

I prefer to use the research from John Hopkins Bloomberg: http://www.jhsph.edu/refugee/research/iraq

shock value know that the actual number is likely 7 to 10 times lower than that according to the United Nations and the anti-war website Iraq Body Count. I hope that Keith Olbermann and MSNBC will do the honorable thing and correct that false casulty number.

Posted by: Angry Veteran at August 22, 2007 10:54 PM

That's straight out of the "rosie o" playbook and the far leftists suck it up like no tomorrow. SLOB throws the same false number around and so does philby and I think mike has, too. I'm sure he'll deny it, like everything else. I've even heard some hard core loons throw the "million" number out there.

Yawn.

I just never get tired of that bath-tub graphic.

Both clever and insightful...one could never grow weary of looking at it. Brilliant.

Great stuff! Keep up the good work exposing that stuff!

Whatever you're getting paid, it's not enough.

Again?
Though I don't agree with what this site stands for, I could at least somewhat understand why people criticize Olbermann. But the petty posts about his girl, the cost of the apartment (which I assume everyone took literally, might have just been a tongue-in-cheek stab at the ridiculous cost NYers have to pay for rent), doesn't really prove anything and kind of discredits and sidetracks your real arguments against Olbermann.

Again?
Though I don't agree with what this site stands for, I could at least somewhat understand why people criticize Olbermann. But the petty posts about his girl, the cost of the apartment (which I assume everyone took literally, might have just been a tongue-in-cheek stab at the ridiculous cost NYers have to pay for rent), doesn't really prove anything and kind of discredits and sidetracks your real arguments against Olbermann.

The Pea Brain Prevaricator never learns a damn thing. By far, the most stupid and obstinate poster on this site, and, perhaps, in all of America.

By the way, I have been in Europe for a week now, and I have still not been glared at, scowled at, spat upon or had my throat slashed by a Muslim. I guess your xenophobia must be as ill-based as your politics.

Olby must be laughing his head off at Gail Shister. Does she fact-check anything? Olby lies like a rug to her and she doesn't have a clue. No wonder the Inquirer canceled her column and bumped her down to reporter.

Oh no, according to the left, Al Qaeda has nothing to do with the conflict in Iraq.....except that they are killing people who are fighting against their poisonous ideology as well as women.....

"BAGHDAD (AP) - Suspected al-Qaida fighters attacked a Sunni village east of Baqouba on Thursday and killed a village leader who had led the community in an uprising against the terrorist organization, witnesses and police said.

"At the same time Timim, a nearby Shiite village, came under attack, again by suspected al-Qaida fighters. A total of 15 people, including seven women, were killed and 22 wounded in the two assaults, said Baqouba police Brig. Ali Dlaiyan.

"Ten attackers were killed as villagers fought back, he said. A joint U.S.-Iraqi force had blocked the region. The attack by about 25 gunmen on the Ibrahim al-Yahya village began at 6:30 a.m. when the fighters exploded a bomb at the house of Sheik Younis al-Shimari, destroying his home and killing him and one member of his family. Ten people were wounded, including four other members of the family and passers-by. Some of the wounded were hit by gunfire.

"'They were shouting Allah Akbar and Curse be upon the Renegades,' said Umm Ahmed, who was among the three women wounded in the attack. She refused to give her full name fearing retribution. 'This attack will cause the uprising against them to spread to other villages.'"

###
Oh I guess the left's ruling elite would like to abandon these people to the Al Qaeda terrorists....the same thugs who attacked us on 9/11....

No, there is no war on terrorism! Bring the troops home now!.....cut the funds!

No, Cee, the Left has said that Al Qaeda was not in Iraq prior to Bush destabilizing Iraq. That is true. Saddaam kept Al Qaeda out, Bush let Al Qaeda in. That is true, too. In his "let's start a war without regard to the consequences" action, Bush did great, great harm to the region. To repeat, however, Al Qaeda is most assuredly in a destabalized Iraq.

This is just another one of those uncomfortable realities for you and your ilk and one which the rest of us will all be paying for as you and your ilk run into the closet and hide.

Laura Bush, are you Pea Brain? It's "Skakel". I would have thought any articulate American would know that. It is Ethel Kennedy's middle name.

I'm not sure why you think anyone gives a damn what you think. Frankly, I am so sick and tired of all the Bush huggers and all the damage he and they have done to America and to the world, I wish you'd all just shut up until we finally get a decent President, who I am sure you will denigrate from the moment they call the election for her in November 2008. At least an end to your whining until then would be a relief.

My computer is not in a closet, Clucker, and I am not the one advocating for troop withdrawl in an area teeming with Al Qaeda terrorists....you and your ilk are though and this would leave millions of decent, law-abiding Iraqis under the thumb of despots.

You know Clucker, do not blame me or my ilk for the contradictions in your own worldview. You claim to be compassionate yet you have no problem with the consequences of leaving innocent people at the mercy of terrorists and thugs. My worldview has no contradictions. Place the blame for your dilemma where it truly belongs, please.

Defending those unable to defend themselves is a moral mission. That is the role Bush has called our brave men and women to serve. You and the left see it differently and incorrectly....seeing a noble cause on the other side that wants to destroy freedom and democracy.

Removing Saddam Hussein was a moral action since he was in violation of UN mandates and in opposition to all the organization stands for. Human dignity and valuing life is in direct opposition to him and his ideological cousins in Al Qaeda. We must stand against the ideology of hatred, death and totalitarianism.

What do you think?

cee,

You are fast losing your credibility. Al Qaeda wasn't there when we arrived; moreover, most of the attacks are by insurgents. If we leave, either Al Qaeda will leave or get stuck fighting with insurgents...

And, don't shed crocodile tears about the poor Iraqis. You didn't shed any when we were bombing the crap out of them; nor do you car that we are arming the insurgency; nor do you care that they have a worse infrastructure now than under Hussein...

Wah...

No, Cee, I am not advocating an immediate pull-out. We have to spend many years cleaning up the mess Bush Administration policies have made in Iraq.

I cannot tell you how that saddens me. I never voted for Bush, for President or for Governor. And, frankly, he created the same sort of mess I felt he would. It is his calling card.

But we do have lose thousands of more lives, sustains tens of thousands more injuries and epend billions and billions of dollars to clean up this mess he and those who voted for him created.

It is a familiar pattern. We spend 8 years cleaning up the mess Bush le Premier created in 4.

We will spend 32 years or more cleaning up the mess Bush le Deuxieme created in 8.

Ms. Clinton and Mr. Obama are up to the first 16 years. After that, who knows.

I do pray and hope, somewhat realistically, that the French can help us in the recovery. It seems they are willing to. What an embarassment that must be to the Bush Huggers.

Don't lecture me on the moral aspects of this, however. Bush never acted on a moral impulse in his life. It is always pure hubris. We, those left with the mess to clean up, are the moral ones.

Poor blindrat....it still is all about ME, cee....not about the pathetic views of a bankrupt polticial movement lead by a ruling elite unable to lead!

Guess what blindrat, you can put me down all day long and the facts remain.....people die at the hands of violent people and we are the ones trying to defend the weak. You and Clucker seem not to be able to admit to that simple fact.

We bombed the crap out of Saddam Hussein's military targets with strict limits to avoid civilian casualties. Saddam used every terrorist trick in the book including the use of "human shields" to achieve the reaction you have had. Al Qaeda terrorists target civilians including women and children to also get the stupid reaction you just posted.....blaming The United States for actions of despots.

Oh blindrat....you are silly. That is all I have to say about you, personally.....otherwise I would be happy to actually talk about things that matter....like why the left hates freedom and justice!

I got poison ivy last weekend while hiking in the mountains. This is all Mr. Bush's fault, I hate Mr. Bush. I hope Olbermutt will help my cause and explain to people on his show that posion ivy is all Mr. Bush's fault.

my dog threw up this morning. This is all Mr. Bush's fault, I hate Mr. Bush. If it was for those damn Republicans, dogs would never be throwing up. Hey, Olbermutt- can you talk about this on your show next time, how it's all Mr. Bush's fault and why he wont do anything to help my poor dog seek the proper veterninary care that he needs.

cee,

We bombed the crap out of neighborhoods and restaurants, son. Why ignore this? You were conscious when it was all happening...

The right supported Hussein in the eighties. The right has nothing to do with freedom and less to do with justice, child...

Grow up...

"Bush never acted on a moral impulse in his life"

###
Ok, that explains it all, Clucker. Oh, and your equally dubious judgment regarding the moral fiber of Senators Clinton and Obama also sheds light on the unaddressed contradictions I mentioned.

It seems you enjoy playing the field when it comes to committing to a decision regarding leadership. Obama is for immediate withdrawl as is Clinton.....their votes recently regarding Bush's funding relfect their ultimate goals. They may try to change their rhetoric depending on the audience, but this is what poor leadership does.

So Clucker, what is it? The left's solution of immediate withdrawl or something else today? I really would like to know some specifics.

Blindrat has the truth with him, Cee.

What I suggest is, if the problem is assignment of the blame, blame it all on what you call the Left. We are big enough to take it, and not nearly as thin-skinned as the Bush Huggers. The problem is moving ahead. You have to admit that we have lost the hearts and minds of the Iraqi, and to a large extent, the Afghan people. Nothing we do or the French do for us in the days ahead matters if we cannot admit that. In essence, we have to start all over. The last 5-6 years have been wasted. As you would say, the Left's fault, but, again, I am not sure fault is the issue. Competence is the issue.

"We bombed the crap out of neighborhoods and restaurants, son."

###
No we did not, blindrat. You enjoy the propaganda of terrorists that places the deaths of innocents at the feet of anyone but themselves. As a matter of policy and military tactic, The United States Armed Forces does all it can to avoid civilian death and injury. Period. Al Qaeda TARGETS civilians with terrorist tactics, kills women and children randomly and then feeds your hatred with propaganda.

Oh blindrat, when are you going to stop saying our troops are baby killers? Did the treatment of Vietnam Veterans teach you anything?

Obama is for immediate withdrawl as is Clinton.....their votes recently regarding Bush's funding relfect their ultimate goals.
---
This is simplistic.

Neither are committed to immediate withdrawal, and they have consistently so stated. The vote was to make Bush be acountable, and he has run as far and fast from accountability as possible, his entire life. If Pea Brain Prevaricator is the Bush of the blogosphere, Bush is the PBP of international diplomacy and war management. Even at this late date, why is it you can't admit we just got a real stinker?

How can anyone possibly give you specifics until we get this thorougly wretched president and this huge obstacle retired? Nothing anyone does matters as long as people like you, McConnell, Hutchinson and Cornyn fall on your knees worshipping is ineptitude.

BTW: I think you and I may be closer in this substantive regard that our posts might tend to indicate. As always, the obstacle is St. Bush the Inept.

My flight is being called, so this is likely my last post until at least Sunday. Not much connectivity at my next destination.

If you are reading this Pea Brain Prevaricator, that means you have up to 72 hours or lying at will. Cecilia and Mrs. Hawkins will be able to feed your paranoia, and Mike, Blindrat, and AAP will be your only, but able, check.

I just had a late lunch at a Pakistani restaurant. No scowls and snarls, not throat slashing or head-bashing. Sorry to disappoint you Pea Brain Prevaricator Paranoik.

hey blindrat-news flash- most Americans care a hell of a lot more about their own troops than they do of Iraqi citizens. Unless, of course, your name is Keith Olbermahn.

"You have to admit that we have lost the hearts and minds of the Iraqi"

###
No, I do not and that has no support by the facts on the ground. While former insurgents are joining American troops to fight against Al Qaeda, your lies regarding "hearts and minds" emboldens the terrorists to continue their propaganda and terrorist tactics....just like in Vietnam, Clucker.

The death of innocents will increase as the shrill voices of the left get louder and more demanding....that is the consequences of an ideology only concerned with its own comfort and power.

Withdrawl from the fight against Al Qaeda will also mean another conflict in the years ahead because "the paper tiger" as they called us during the Clinton years, shows its weakness in not defending the weak. That is the legacy of the left from the '70's and it may be again now.

Tim,

cee doesn't care more about U.S. troop than about Iraqis. Apparently it's the job of U.S. troops to die so that Iraq can pretend to have a government, son...

"The NIE expresses concern that insurgents are planning a Tet-like offensive in coming weeks. The Tet offensive was a series of coordinated attacks in 1968 by the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong in U.S.-backed South Vietnam.

###
So don't worry blindrat, the despots may be providing you and the left's ruling class with more talking points in the weeks to come!

Go Al Qaeda!.....America cannot prevail because it will be politically bad for a certain radical fringe domestically!

"Apparently it's the job of U.S. troops to die so that Iraq can pretend to have a government"

###
No, it is the job of U.S. troops to defend freedom and human dignity, blindrat.

blindbat, throw away that dvd of "loose change" and try getting some real news.

The troops really have lost the hearts and minds of the people, haven't they Clucker?

FORWARD OPERATING BASE HAMMER, Iraq – An Iraqi man saved the lives of four U.S. Soldiers and eight civilians when he intercepted a suicide bomber during a Concerned Citizens meeting in the town of al-Arafia Aug. 18.

The incident occurred while Soldiers from 3rd Squadron, 1st Cavalry Regiment, were talking with members of the al-Arafia Concerned Citizens, a volunteer community group, at a member’s house.

“I was about 12 feet away when the bomber came around the corner,” said Staff Sgt. Sean Kane, of Los Altos, Calif., acting platoon sergeant of Troop B, 3-1 Cav. “I was about to engage when he jumped in front of us and intercepted the bomber as he ran toward us. As he pushed him away, the bomb went off.”

The citizen’s actions saved the lives of four U.S. Soldiers and eight civilians.

Kane felt the loss personally because he had met and interacted with his rescuer many times before the incident.

“He was high-spirited and really believed what the group (Concerned Citizens) was doing,” Kane said. “I have no doubt the bomber was trying to kill American Soldiers. It was very calculated the way the bomber tried to do it. If he hadn’t intercepted him, there is no telling how bad it could have been.”

Kane believes the citizen is a hero.

“He could have run behind us or away from us, but he made the decision to sacrifice himself to protect everyone. Having talked with his father, I was told that even if he would have known the outcome before hand, he wouldn’t have acted differently.”

Capt. Brian Gilbert, of Boise, Idaho, the commander of Company D, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry Regiment, currently attached to 3-1 Cavalry, echoed Kane’s sentiment.

“I spoke with the father,” Gilbert said. “He said he has no remorse in his son’s death because he died saving American Soldiers.”

Later that night, the Concerned Citizens group contacted the local National Police director, Lt. Col. Samir, with the location of the al-Qaeda cell believed to be responsible for the attack. The National Police immediately conducted a raid that resulted in four arrests.

Despite the citizen’s death, Gilbert is encouraged by the cooperation between citizens and the Iraqi National Police.

“The effort of the Concerned Citizens group has made the area much safer,” he said. “They are proud of who they are and their area, and want to get rid of the terrorists in their area.”

Gilbert also praised the Iraqi National Police’s role in eliminating insurgents in the area.

“The cooperation between them and the Concerned Citizens has been key,” Gilbert said. “The NP has done a great job of responding to the tips they have been given by the group.”

Gilbert said he believes the area is improving because of the efforts of local citizens. The death, while unfortunate, demonstrated how close many in the area have become with the American Soldiers operating there.

“I consider many in the town friends, and I know they feel the same,” Gilbert said. “This is a tough situation, but we’ll move on and try to prevent things like this from happening again. I’ve talked with his family and told them how brave their son was. This is a huge loss for everyone involved.”

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13454&Itemid=21

I guess a conspiracy theorist would claim that the troops threw the man in the path of the suicide bomber and made up the rest, heck, even the whole event.

Now come on Sharon. The "new compassion" is to throw out the baby with the dirty bath water.....

Defeatism......

Your touching story means nothing in the face of blatant US hegemony and a ruthless pursuit of global economic domination!

The radical terrorists are on the right side of the issue.

Sharon, did you actually think philby/clucker/rudy would post anything besides far left propaganda or an outright lie? Can you imagine what our troops think when they read crap like she, blindbat,slob,aap/why and mike post? It's very sad, to say the least

blindrat is the dumbest poster on this site next to Rudy.
when are you gonna get a clue?
i read your posts and shake my head in disbelief - day-in-and-day-out

SON!

12:36 AGREED...
Better yet - the rodent is brainwashed!
Why do people respond to his shit?

blindrat certainly is a condescending little prick, isn't he?

cee = the consequence of an ideology only concerned with its own comfort and power

>Again?
Though I don't agree with what this site stands for, I could at least somewhat understand why people criticize Olbermann. But the petty posts about his girl, the cost of the apartment (which I assume everyone took literally, might have just been a tongue-in-cheek stab at the ridiculous cost NYers have to pay for rent), doesn't really prove anything and kind of discredits and sidetracks your real arguments against Olbermann.

Posted by: Trent at August 23, 2007 4:20 AM

That's sort of the problem, Trent. They let their petty partisan politics blow their cover: The 'cover' of just wanting to uphold journalistic standards.

Hank and his ilk want you to believe it's all about journalistic standards, and pointing out their blatant partisan hypocrisy is 'irrelevant.'

If only everyone could dismiss evidence of their own hypocrisy as 'irrevelant.'

Great Thanks Hank!

>Again?
Though I don't agree with what this site stands for, I could at least somewhat understand why people criticize Olbermann. But the petty posts about his girl, the cost of the apartment (which I assume everyone took literally, might have just been a tongue-in-cheek stab at the ridiculous cost NYers have to pay for rent), doesn't really prove anything and kind of discredits and sidetracks your real arguments against Olbermann.
Posted by: Trent at August 23, 2007 4:20 AM

That's sort of the problem, Trent. They let their petty partisan politics blow their cover: The 'cover' of just wanting to uphold journalistic standards.

Hank and his ilk want you to believe it's all about journalistic standards, and pointing out their blatant partisan hypocrisy is 'irrelevant.'
If only everyone could dismiss evidence of their own hypocrisy as 'irrevelant.'
Great Thanks Hank!
Posted by: Exposing the OlbyGoons at August 23, 2007 3:37 PM

Glad to see you two living large on "take the high road" world. Seems you are the only two.

Funny how a MSNBC cable guy can make a very good living with an "irrevelant" obsession of a FOX cable guy (making an even better living). Seems like Olbermann is in the "real" world with the rest of us.

cee = the consequence of an ideology only concerned with its own comfort and power

###
Factually wrong....If that was the case I would be part of the fickle 60% who have abandoned protecting freedom and democracy. We may get the worst president ever in 2008 because of support for the noble cause in Iraq. The Republicans may lose any chance of regaining the legislative branch in '08 because of their noble stand for democracy and freedon in Iraq. IF I was only concerned about power and influence, I would have deserted President Bush years ago.

I do not. I want people to be free and able to practice their religion as they want...basic human rights protected from those who would fly planes into skyscrapers full of innocent people.

So get your facts straight before you post stupidity!

I just never get tired of that bath-tub graphic.

Both clever and insightful...one could never grow weary of looking at it. Brilliant.

Great stuff! Keep up the good work exposing that stuff!

Whatever you're getting paid, it's not enough.

Posted by: at August 23, 2007 2:17 AM

I guess REAL humor escapes me.

What the F is so funny about a goofy cartoon of a bathtub?
Seriously?

Its humor like this which proves most republicans are about as funny as cancer.

Again?
Though I don't agree with what this site stands for, I could at least somewhat understand why people criticize Olbermann. But the petty posts about his girl, the cost of the apartment (which I assume everyone took literally, might have just been a tongue-in-cheek stab at the ridiculous cost NYers have to pay for rent), doesn't really prove anything and kind of discredits and sidetracks your real arguments against Olbermann.

Posted by: Trent at August 23, 2007 4:20 AM

New to Olbermann watch, are you Trent?

This is a good day for substance.

Funny how a MSNBC cable guy can make a very good living with an "irrevelant" obsession of a FOX cable guy (making an even better living). Seems like Olbermann is in the "real" world with the rest of us.
Posted by: at August 23, 2007 3:54 PM

This is a good day for substance.
Posted by: This site sucks at August 23, 2007 4:24 PM

Sure is.

Expose the OlbyGoons says:

"Hank and his ilk want you to believe it's all about journalistic standards, and pointing out their blatant partisan hypocrisy is 'irrelevant.' If only everyone could dismiss evidence of their own hypocrisy as 'irrevelant.' Great Thanks Hank!"

What "partisan hypocrisy" do you find me guilty of? Let's suppose that this site was not named OlbermannWatch and was not not specifically dedicated to exposing the lies, distortions, incompetence and journalistic laziness of Olbermann. Instead let's suppose that this site was dedicated to a general overview of incomptence and malpractice of all cable TV news. Let's further suppose that Fox News or CNN committed journalistic sins that were equivalent to those you see every night on Meltdown, but I refused to discuss them on this make believe web site. Under those circumstances, I could be accused of hypocrisy.

However, it is NOT "partisan hypocrisy" if I come to THIS site that is specifically dedicated to talking about Olbermann and I talk about Olbermann. Whatever my thoughts and opinions are about any other cable news network or show doesn't have any bearing on what my opinions are about Olbermann. I might go over to another site after I finish here and give BOR or Wolf Blitzer as much shit as I give Olby here or I might praise them to the heavens. When I'm here I confine my discussion of cable show hosts to Olbermann because that's what this site is for.

What this really boils down to for people like Expose the Olby Goons is that he knows his Orange Hero, the mentally ill host of Meltdown, is a journalistic joke who can't be defended when evidence of his lies and distortions are brought to light at this site on a daily basis. So, he points out some imaginary "partisan hypocrisy" on my part to avoid having to face the unpleasant and unattainable goal of defending Olbermann. What a tool.

We're going to give the good people of Iraq Liberty!

(whether they want it or not!)

Just a continuation of what Warner said.

Warner, known for his party loyalty, said he still opposes setting a fixed timetable on the war or forcing the president's hand.

"Let the president establish the timetable for withdrawal, not the Congress," he said.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070823/D8R715301.html

Here is Sen. Reid, from the same article:

" . . .and the president's escalation strategy has failed to produce the political results he promised to our troops and the American people."

What did Bush really say?

I've made it clear to the Prime Minister and Iraq's other leaders that America's commitment is not open-ended. If the Iraqi government does not follow through on its promises, it will lose the support of the American people -- and it will lose the support of the Iraqi people.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/01/20070110-7.html

Nice try to plug one hole in the ship, Sharon, but the ship is starting to sink.

Posted by: Why at August 23, 2007 11:56 PM

What she did was nail you cherry picking parts of articles to fit your far left agenda.

I need to start using more quotes.

"Warner, known for his party loyalty, said he still opposes setting a fixed timetable on the war or forcing the president's hand."

I thought it was obvious it was from the article you initially quoted. From what I recall about what you recently quoted from CNN, I think it was something like start with 5,000 troops to send a message to Maliki. I predicted months ago that in my opinion, there would be the beginning of a withdrawal after the September report.

"The departure of even a small number of U.S. service members — perhaps 5,000 out of the 160,000 troops in Iraq — would send a powerful message throughout the region that time was running out, he said."

Actually, it was from here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20406241/

No matter what ultimately happens with Iraq, I will never use the words "useless" "waste." I think it dishonors individuals who every day did some good (except for the very few who committed intentional horrible acts). In my opinion, Bush knows he can't keep demanding continual tours. I believe it was the outgoing General Pace who talked about the wear on the families, as well as the troops. There will be a withdrawal, unless there is a draft. A draft seems very unlikely at this point.

"I don't believe it's smart to set a date for withdrawal. I don't think you should ever telegraph your intentions to the enemy so they can await you."

Who said it?

Hillary Clinton!

It has been my opinion that Bush already has the beginnings of some kind of withdrawal set in motion. He is not telegraphing his intentions to the enemy.

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.
Oct 31, 98:
Became Public Law No: 105-338.
Signed by President.

It was NOT a call for a military invasion and it states as much in Section 8.

- anonmoron: Stating what you believe may happen is not an endorsement. That is why you are an idiot. No wonder you can't give yourself a name.

-I decided to become an atheist. So phrase your illogical arguments in that context from now on.

-I never said it called for military action, Mike. There was a purpose behind the legislation. What would that be?

-There mission is to protect and defend OUR freedom and democracy, not fictional "freedom and democracy" in an alien culture that has never expressed any compelling interest or desire to be like us. (Mike)

- You never stated or supported that it was a neocon Bush idea to reomove Saddam and replace the regime with democracy?

Four and 1/2 years before the start of the war, here are some noteworthy comments:

Feb. 25, 1998, Bob KERREY:

Force, either our own or that of dissident Iraqis, will be required to remove this regime.

Feb. 25, 1998, Tom DASCHLE:

If fully implemented, this commitment will allow UNSCOM to fulfill its mission: First, to find and destroy all of Iraq’s chemical, biological and nuclear weapons; second, to find and destroy the missiles that could deliver these weapons; and, third, to institute a system for long-term monitoring to make sure Iraq doesn’t do it again.

The United States remains resolved to secure, by whatever means necessary, Iraq’s full compliance with its commitment to destroy its weapons of mass destruction. So again, it will be diplomacy backed up by force. So long as diplomacy works, force will not be necessary. At the very moment diplomacy appears not to be working, force will be employed. So, let there be no mistake. This is not a question of breathing room. This is not a question of simply delaying and somehow, then, obviating the need for the use of force should it be required. It will be there.

Mar. 12, 1998, Joe BIDEN:

No one should doubt for a moment the resolve of the United States to respond with force, if necessary, to Iraq’s continued flagrant violation of United Nations Security Council resolutions.

Oct. 9, 1998, Carl LEVIN:

Today, along with Senators McCain, Lieberman, Hutchison and 23 other Senators, I am sending a letter to the President [Clinton] to express our concern over Iraq’s actions and urging the President "after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."

To be a Christian at this site you must love to see war and death.
I'm sure Jesus would be pleased.
NOT.

Posted by: at August 24, 2007 8:46 AM

This drivel coming from someone who posts articles informing and keeping track of casualties on a daily basis. Ironic.

The Libs hate Southenrers. They hate Christians. They hate period. It's all they know how to do.

Speaking during a taping of Michigan Public Television’s “Off the Record,” Hoekstra said in
a Muslim country dominated by rival tribal factions, western-style democracy is not workable. (from 9:00)

The the bipartisan legislation of 1998 was the precursor to what happened in 2003. No one suggested that the legislation had become irrelevant because of events occurring from 1998-2003. The record from the floor shows that in fact, the rhetoric was pretty strong in supporting authorization for war. That is what got us into the here and now.

And what administration decided to enact into law this policy:

[I]t should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.

That is the policy in place when Bush was elected in 2000.

I guess you missed the many times I have stated that troops cannot continue to serve multiple tours and let's see what Petreus says in September. I don't give a rodent's gluttius maximus that you accuse me of wanting people to die. I know it is just one of your intimidation techniques. You would fit in fine at your own Gitmo. How is your attitude so different from those you spend hours abhorring?

That was the policy in 2000.

I quote the rhetoric of people who voted for the war.
**
I also see you refuse to comment on all the right wing war (why)supporters that have finally seen the light.

Now you have the utmost respect for them I suppose. Vent your anger somewhere else. I am just a person commenting on a board. I couldn't care less about Bush's legacy. Hey, maybe I'll die in an unfortunate set of circumstances and the world will be set aright again for you and SLOB.

I see the spolbyloons are dancing in rejoice the possibility of Pace's undermining the war effort. No surprise's here.

m586k

Nobody wishes you death, Sharon, just some clarity.

Posted by: Why at August 25, 2007 1:02 AM

Yes, Sharon, if only you had the crystal clarity of knowing that you're willing to risk the lives of servicemen and women because in your blind partisanship you are content to sacrifice them to salvage the legacy of your pathetic president.

Why doesn't wish you harm. He just wishes you'd see (as clearly as he sees...)that you are a monster.

"In reality, the failures that Petraeus and Crocker will point to belong not with al-Maliki but squarely on the doorstep of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and its occupant. It is the failure of the Bush administration to embrace the recommendations of the Iraq Study Group to pursue a comprehensive diplomatic initiative that has contributed to the disfunctionalities at work in Iraq today."

"The fewer fatalities have more to do with the 130 degree in July-August heat in Iraq than any succcess of this Surge.Plus in the past several years, July-August casualty figures for U.S. troops in Iraq have always been lower, and this year's July-August casualty figures were actually higher than those of the past. And while Iraqi deaths are down in areas where there has been an increase in U.S. troop presence, as predicted, the violence moved to other parts of the country."

"30,000 troops cannot hold Iraq together or end its civil war. Nor can one-on-one U.S. meetings with Iran or Syria, or limited U.S. cooperation with Saudi Arabia, bring about national reconciliation in Iraq."

Posted by: Why don't you think ? at August 24, 2007 11:37 PM

Pretty ironic screen name considering this is a lift word-by-word cut-n-paste from a James Zogby editorial at Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zogby/waiting-for-petraeus-the_b_61748.html

Cecelia,

The manner in which Why tries to convert someone to his way of thinking is quite interesting. Abusive language, name-calling, vileness. Yes, that is the kind of "clarity" most people can relate to. Compare that to Cee's and your style of responses. (I hope you respond to Clucker's accusations of your denigrating military members. I guess he is unaware of your ties to the military.) I think Clucker, Mike and AAP (et al) should thank God (or thank someone) every day for the existence of RK. It is a classic case of something or other in the field of psychology.

Pretty ironic screen name considering this is a lift word-by-word cut-n-paste from a James Zogby editorial at Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zogby/waiting-for-petraeus-the_b_61748.html

Posted by: Cecelia at August 25, 2007 5:37 AM

Would you expect anything else, besides the "f" word all over the place, from the poster known as patsy/why/anon/manyothers? It's from huffpo, to boot. Who woulda thunk? He'll come back with "It's from the ap!" Bet your ass.

Our bishop allows the traditional mass to be celebrated in my diocese. My family and I have been attending weekly for over a year. We have finally found peace and don't have to put up with all of the broken rubrics and disrespect for the Blessed Sacrament, at least on Sundays.

I thought how much you might have enjoyed it, particularly the serenity. : ) Yes, I really enjoy it.

I always appreciate prayers. I will make an intention for you tomorrow.

Grammie, I should have included you as well in the list above. Benson is another one and he actually follows the threads here. Codas, Truth and some others most always disagree with my point of view, but they keep it to a reasonable level.

Of course, the mere fact that it has appeared in the Huffington Post of the AP makes it suspect to you, and I am sure you never bother to go to any of the more reputable, apolitical sites. Your ignorance is very dangerous.

posted by philby/clucker

And articles from drudge or Savage's website are not immediatley discounted by you and your spolbyloon cohorts? Could you be any more of a hypocrite, mrs. philby? I think not.

Haditha Massacre: Media and Terrorist Hoax?
By Sher Zieve | August 16, 2007 To large portions of the worldwide media and a growing radical leftist faction within the United States Congress, the U.S. Military can do nothing right and the terrorists can do no wrong. Send this page to a friend
Format this page for printing

As charges against U.S. Marines - regarding an apparent fabrication of the “Haditha massacre” - continue to be proved false and based upon unsubstantiated “evidence,” only some of the leftist media appear to be standing by their original spin on the story. This media’s bent was based upon their proposition that the Islamist terrorists were telling the truth that the accused Marines were guilty of murder. Of note is that this twisted account was picked up by leftist members of the U.S. Congress - including former Marine and House Rep. Jack Murtha (D-PA) - who helped their media spread the poison. Based upon no evidence at all, Murtha said that the accused Marines had “killed innocent civilians in cold blood” and “I know there was a cover-up someplace!”

Neither of these ill-advised statements has proven to be true. In fact, they have been confirmed to have been bogus. But, it didn’t matter as the “we hate the U.S. Military and will say anything we want about it” crowd was in fine form and - with no evidence whatsoever - had already begun its renewed campaign against U.S. soldiers. This same group also strongly implied these soldiers were murderers; a charge that has now shown to be both unwarranted and patently false.

Note: To large portions of the worldwide media and a growing radical leftist faction within the United States Congress, the U.S. Military can do nothing right and the terrorists can do no wrong.

The AP reports that one of the hearing officers, Lt. Col. Paul Ware, “said murder charges brought against Sharratt were based on unreliable witness accounts, poor forensic evidence and questionable legal theories.” In an 18-page report, Ware wrote: “The government version is unsupported by independent evidence. To believe the government version of facts is to disregard clear and convincing evidence to the contrary.”

Charges against the Marines are in the process of being dropped. However, to date there has not been even a hint of a slight apology from those who blatantly and unconscionably accused these Marines of murder - including accusatory members of the Democrat-run U.S. Congress. Instead, against even one of their own liberal think tanks - the Brookings Institution with its NY Times article “A War We Just Might Win” - Democrat leaders (specifically Sen. Harry Reid D-NV) have not rescinded their statements that the U.S. has “already lost the war.”

Note: Even in the face of overwhelming facts to the contrary, leftists refuse to back off from their talking points. And, even elected Democrat officials refuse to apologize to those soldiers who fight and die to protect these same officials and their right to vilify them. These are revolting behaviors from those electees who should know better.

So, the liberal/leftist press, with very few exceptions, is not even bothering to report on the discovery that the Marines were, indeed, wrongly accused. After all, in the minds of the liberal media, the wrong side has been exonerated! Of those pieces that are being written of the vindications, they are short and included in the back sections of most publications. Whereas, when the fake “massacre” reports were initially carried by these same publications they were included on the front page. This is the prime example of ‘absolute power - this time of the press - tending to corrupt absolutely’. While our courageous troops protect even these corrupted individuals, the same corruptees hide behind one another while continuing to malign, denigrate and degrade their protectors. This is not only the mark of childish bullying behavior but, the essence of weak-mindedness. This is what liberalism and the tenets of the Left breed; dishonor, cowardice and abject stupidity. But, the honor and intelligence of our fighting men and women will prevail. However, sadly and apparently permanently, so will the contradictory pillars of the Left continue to exist.

Then again, without the presence of evil, how would the rest of us recognize good?

3:06, source, please.

Sharon and Clucker,

I haven't seen the post where Capon accuses me of denigrating servicemen, so I'll have to look for it.

Of course it doesn't surprise me. It's the sort of stuff that passes for discussion here on both sides.

I don't accuse non-war supporters of not being patriotic, of not loving our country, and of not wanting the very best for it. That's the sort of thing that passes for discussion here so often on both sides.

However, it's impossible not to conclude that any discussion that involves war and the nature of war that there is a particular frivolousness to using the innate aspects of war to then argue that those who support do so out of callous disregard for those who fight it. It's the willful negation of any counter opinion via the most inflammatory and derogatory grounds.

I think we've all heard debates about abortion where one side tells the other that they support abortion for no other reason than relishing the destruction of life There's no where to go from there. Stick a fork in it, this "discussion" is done.

I have no idea what you, Clucker aer talking about when you say that you're tired of my whining about ...something... I'm not sure what, since I discuss the war so rarely because of the aforementioned nature of the arguments here.

It is quite a ironic that in a article where Mr. Zogby did say that more troops had made a difference, but that this alone could not make THE difference, and where he disavowed quick and complete withdrawal, and evoked the Iraq Study Group which advocated U.N. occupation of Iraq (alonge with a continued U.S. presence) and more diplomatic involvement in the region, that Why cuts and pastes none of these particular paragraphs.

This isn't unlike the suggestions of some of the Dem. candidates is it? However, it is completely unlike those who argue for pull out because not another soldier should be risked in a misbegotten war that can come to no good for the Iraqis or the U.S and if you don't believe that it's because you're safe at home and want other people to die for Dick Cheney's oil, etc...etc... while simultaneously arguing that it's somehow good politics and good policy for the Dem candidates and Dem House and Senate Leadership NOT to see things from this extreme position...

Zogby's, Biden's, Obama's ...and company's... could be a discussion worth having. Worth reading. No doubt it would get spirited and no doubt the anonyloons on both sides would crawl out of the woodwork and ankle-bite, but there could be more than the "YOU SUCK" , selective mental and actual cut-n-paste dishonest hatchet jobs that's the standard and has less to do with concern for any military member or with the country than with hatred for folks who don't hold our views.

.

So you surmise that we don't care about the military,but only have hatred for "folks' like you.

Your surmising is disingenuous at best, inflammatory is more like it.

And "your views" keep being discredited each and every day in every newspaper in the country. Your selective vision on these topics is why we love to bring it to your attention.
Posted by: Why don't you think at August 25, 2007 5:45 PM

No, I surmise that hatred can be a motivating factor on either side and is certainly YOUR M.O. like no one else's here. I'd say if we looked at your posts when discussing the war, the majority of them would end with "you're pathetic"...."you're a loser", "you're disgraceful".

I'll add that for a guy who steals other's words and lifts whole paragraphs out of context and without attribution, as though they are something from your own mind and mouth,.... "selective" would most aptly describe you.

The Sgt Asad Amer Mashoot comments came from Sgt Asad Amer Mashoot,and the Sgt Sanick P Dela Cruz comments about urinating on the corpse, came from Sgt Sanick P Dela Cruz.

Yours?

Posted by: at August 25, 2007 5:31 PM

I'll take "Accuracy in Media" any day over "mashoots" word. He's in bed with mad man murtha.

Cecelia,

You are very accurate in comparing the war issue to that of abortion in the sense that it is emotional and divisive. I initially came to this site because I was angry at something concerning Olbermann (can't even recall the subject matter anymore). I have been so caught up in the war discussion, too caught up. I think I am going to take your cue (and I think Grammie as well who has been strangely absent) and drastically curtail my involvement in those kind of discussions. I enjoy A Soldier's Perspective and the Jawa Report, usually as an observer, occasionally as a commenter. Mypetjawa covers just about anything but I find it a pretty good source, even though at times a little risque and always thought provoking. A Soldier's Perspective, to me, gives a good picture of what many servicemen and women and their families experience. It is not as active, but I find it helpful because I am not in the military. It has links to other sources.

So, take care. I'll still be an observer when time permits. School starts Monday....ugh, but not really. : )

There's another clear example of Dumbass not supporting the troops.

He has no knowledge of Mashoot, but of course, against him for speaking the truth.

The truth is always the first [casuality]sic of war, and the something the Royalfraud always runs from.

Posted by: Why don't you think at August 25, 2007 7

I am American, I support our troops. I don't support Iraqi soldiers who turn against us. I am not surprised in the least bit you would take an Iraqi soldiers word over the word of an American soldier. It's right up your feces riddled alley.

So, take care. I'll still be an observer when time permits. School starts Monday....ugh, but not really. : )

Posted by: Sharon at August 25, 2007 7:39 PM

Sharon, I enjoy you and your posts so much, so I'm never happy when you do something weird like spend less time here... :D

The ongoing RK rumble posts will keep us all entertained.... but I'm going miss your articulate and moving defense of your beliefs.

For you, Cecelia, I may have been harsher than I should be. You are right, you do not talk about the Whatever as often as others do, for whatever reason. Your worst sin, as far as I am concerned, is you play with some really bad boys. That, however, is not a concern of mine, and I ought not paint you with so wide a brush. That's not to say you're not loopy as hell some of the time. I just don't think I was fair in saying you had denigrated the troops. Were I in a better place at the moment, I would not have done that, and you have my apologies for having offended you.

Posted by: Clucker at August 25, 2007 6:25 PM

You haven't particularly offended me, Clucker. I appreciate the apology, however. Thanks.

Just tell us you didn't make the aforementioned posts and I will be glad to post them as I have said many times before.

Where are your numbers in regards to Iraq vets against the war? Got any? Did mike post any? Not a single piece of evidence to refute mine, just opinions, as usual.

Posted by: royalking at August 25, 2007 2:20 PM

more crickets..........

More news about how this administration really works. Any of you neocon pieces of shit ever wonder where the missing weapons went?

"Blowing the whistle on Iraqi contractors nets no thanks
By DEBORAH HASTINGS
The Associated Press

One after another, the men and women who have stepped forward to report corruption in the massive effort to rebuild Iraq have been vilified, fired and demoted.

Or worse.

For daring to report illegal arms sales, Navy veteran Donald Vance says he was imprisoned by the American military in a security compound outside Baghdad and subjected to harsh interrogation methods..."

"...He had thought he was doing a good and noble thing when he started telling the FBI about the guns and the land mines and the rocket launchers — all being sold for cash, no receipts necessary, he said. He told a federal agent that the buyers were Iraqi insurgents, American soldiers, State Department workers, and Iraqi embassy and ministry employees.

The seller, he alleged, was the Iraqi-owned company he worked for: Shield Group Security Co.

“It was a Wal-Mart for guns,” he said. “It was all illegal, and everyone knew it.”

Vance says he blew the whistle, supplying photos and documents and other intelligence to an FBI agent in his hometown of Chicago because he didn’t know whom to trust in Iraq..."

...Beth Daley of the Project on Government Oversight, an independent, nonprofit group, said: “The only way we can find out what is going on is for someone to come forward and let us know. But when they do, the weight of the government comes down on them. The message is: ‘Don’t blow the whistle or we’ll make your life hell.’?”..."

"...Bunnatine Greenhouse was the highest-ranking civilian contracting officer in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers when she testified before a congressional committee in 2005.

She said that she found widespread fraud in multibillion-dollar rebuilding contracts awarded to former Halliburton subsidiary KBR. Soon after, Greenhouse was demoted. She now sits in a tiny cubicle in a different department with very little to do and no decision-making authority, at the end of an otherwise exemplary 20-year career.

In her demotion, her supervisors said she was performing poorly.

“They just wanted to get rid of me,” she said softly. The Army Corps of Engineers denies her claims."

http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation/story/247720.html

So, this story came out through the AP and Forbes and you girls will STILL come up with ways to justify it...

...or ignore it, cowards...

Sharon, you are right about my not posting for a while and why. I've been reading/skimming the threads but not commenting.

Although the insane animosity comes through either way it is almost overwhelming when you encounter it in one sitting as opposed to reading and commenting off and on.

I noticed your question about the Iraqi Freedom Act and will post my reply when I see you here one day.

Don't stay away forever. Sometimes you are the only oasis in a huge desert of vileness.

Grammie

Hi Grammie,

I know this is not a private message board, but I'll take advantage. Yesterday, I was on this site when my two older ones walked in. There in plain view were several profane monikers (in caps) from one of our own here. I thought, "What am I doing?" Lately, the atmosphere has been horrendous. There are people here that believe that you, me, Cee and Cecelia are the Christian version of the radical decapitators. I find it truly amazing that there is never any condemnation of the truly evil people, just excuses and maybe if Grammie, Sharon et al were better people, the terrorists would see the light. I'll keep in touch here when I see you on board. Have to get someone a donut. Bye!

I just saw this post from Sharon yesterday at 12:03 on this thread: "I think Clucker, Mike, and AAP (et al) should thank God (or thank someone) for the existance of RK. It is a classic case of something or other in the field of psychology."

What an absurd statement!

As for her last sentence; "It is a classic case of something or other in the field of psychology"........Say what?

3:05, Another prime example of liberal hypocrisy, silence anyone who disagrees, whines philby/rudy/clunker. Just our daily dose, it never ends.

Clucker, I'm not sure if Jeff really 'disagreed' with your 3:05 post, because I seriously doubt if he even understood it?

As for her last sentence; "It is a classic case of something or other in the field of psychology"........Say what?

Posted by: Mike at August 26, 2007 2:38 PM

Clucker, I'm not sure if Jeff really 'disagreed' with your 3:05 post, because I seriously doubt if he even understood it?

Posted by: Mike at August 26, 2007 4:05 PM

>>>>Who's confused?

"we need to scorn the noise makers and turd hurdlers so that their voices can never again drown out reason and their fetid fists can never again strike our values."

Posted by: Clucker at August 26, 2007 3:05 PM

Since you (mike) didn't or refused to see what I was referring to (denial), this is "liberal hypocrisy," above.

President Bush was on the wide-screen TV, giving a speech about the war in Iraq. The soldiers didn't look up from their chicken and mashed potatoes.

Posted by: Why don't you think at August 26, 2007 7:05 PM

Some people are smart enough to do 2 things at once, unlike you. They were listening while they ate, try it sometime. Oh, thanks for the la times usual far left crap. Keep your face buried, whatever you do.

The latest polls show the Democratic Congress is far more unpopular than Bush and the GOP. But truth and logic means very little to the Olby-clueless.

Also...must get tiring calling your own party leaders" traitors" for finally seeing the light.

Posted by: Why don't you think at August 26, 2007 7:45 PM

When, exactly, did I do that?

9:40, your far left rhetoric means nothing. Keep posting though, you make the left look bad which is good for us.