I remember when Pope John Paul II died, Olby anchored some of the coverage. During a discussion with a Catholic priest, Olby said that he was not religious. Now how could someone who professes not to know much about the Christian faith decide who is Christian or not?

Gotta love the Clinton fundraising scandal. If it was Rudy it would be the top story on every network. But the leading Democrat? A blip on the radar...

No media bias here! I'll hold judgement on the network news until this scandal shakes out, but come on... the Clinton's are dirty, and this should be BIG news.

Western society's definition and Christianity's definition of what is required to be called a christian are two different things.

She was not out of line saying what she said.

And this is why the left continues to lose elections, their disdain and hatred of Christians. This is a Christian nation idiot. Even the Democratic candidates this year are pretending they've found Jesus so that ought to tell you something about how important they think the Christian vote is. But go ahead, keep making hate-filled comments like this, it just shows you lib-nut-whackjobs for what you really are.

it is VERY easy to argue that Mormons are not Christian.

The Mormon Church teaches that Joseph Smith is the guy who Jesus outsources a LOT of duties to during the second coming (Like if you are risen from the dead and if you get into the good part of New Jerusalem)

ergo the importance of Jesus in your salvation and during the second coming drops like a rock

thus Mormons are not Christians

Mitt Romney is a Mormon

therefore Mitt Romney isn't Christian

It's very easy to argue anything. But Olbermann used AMC to attack Romney for one simple reason: he's a Republican who doesn't agree with Olby's far-left ideology. So he attacks Romney every time his name is mentioned on his program.

So when will Keith have a guest on to tell us "there is some debate" over whether Hillary Clinton is a real Christian or not? How about Barack Obama? Will Olby question his Christian credentials as well?

Welcome to OlbyPlanet.

I mean for love of christ, can you olbylooons for once acknowledge that you scumbag leader is a flag waving leftist who runs a 60:00 propaganda show every night on msmessnbc

And I know the argument used by such weak posters here as the mighty peacenik Mike, who waves the talking points banner of the left wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh fox news is evil waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Olby says it enough and you fools buy it, geez think for yourselves

another fawning Olbermann review. Thank goodness folks who posted comments corrected tthe author's errors. But Olbermann does sound like a success:

http://www.mercurynews.com/charliemccollum/ci_6757524

"Over the past month, Olbermann's presence in the NBC world has gone into a steep climb. MSNBC tapped him to moderate an early August presidential debate. NBC Sports added him to its "Football Night in America" and "Sunday Night Football" shows. And last Sunday, the network gave "Countdown" a shot at the big time with a special edition of the show that aired before a "Sunday Night Football" preseason game in most of the country.."

"how convenient of you to forget Nov 08'

Posted by: Why don't you think at August 30, 2007 11:58 AM"

Here's an idea. Why don't YOU think, and then tell me the logic you used to tell us we've forgotten something that hasn't happened yet.

"I mean for the love of christ, can you olbyloons acknowledge for once that you scumbag leader is a flag waving leftist who runs a 60:00 propaganda show every night on msessnbc."

- You want us to 'acknowledge' a lie? OK, I will 'acknowlege' that you just grossly misrepresented the show, to put it nicely.

- What sort of 'flag' do 'leftists' wave?

- What "scumbag leader" are you referring too? Olbermann?......Olbermann isn't a 'leader'...he is merely a news program commentator who dares challenge a corrupt and incompetent administration that sorely needs to be challenged.

- And none of this has anything to do with "the love of christ".

And of course, Keith will be questioning whether or not Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is a real Christian because of his membership in the Mormon Church in 10...9...8...7...

"Nice try on the rebuttal though.

Posted by: Why don't you think at August 30, 2007 1:57 PM"

Let's see. A rebuttal. OK, how's this.

1992: No majority winner. Perot takes enough votes away from Bush Sr. to allow Hill and Billy into the White House. No Perot, no Clinton presidency.

1996: Bob Dole. Nuff said.

2006: Dems take back congress and proceed to take it's approval rating to all time lows. Impressive.

Prediction.

2008: The KosKids drive enough moderate democrats out of the fold to allow the white house to remain Republican.

Not saying they'll vote Republican, just that they won't vote alongside the armband wearers.

But clucker, it was Olbermann who flipped out initially and accused John Gibson of being "religiously intolerant" and demanded he be fired, yet Olby is doing the same thing. But what do I expect, you people contort yourselves into pretzels trying to protect Olby and apparently where blinders where he is concerned.

Whydont- why dont you admit that hillary has a 48% disapprove rating? THE HIGHEST of any candidate ever to run.

The Church is fairly clear on the Mormon issue, teaching us Mormonism is simply a cult. I don't want to carry that into politics, but I don't know if I can separate myself from it. After hearing this teaching for 45 years or so, I doubt I can simply file it away.

Given a different candidate, I might be deeply, deeply conflicted.

Posted by: Clucker at August 30, 2007 2:28 PM

Well, have you managed to file away the traditional Catholic teachings on abortion and birth control, or do those teaching, (along with the ones defining sexual deviancy) pop out of the cabinet as well, depending upon the political party of the person in question?

Double Digit Inflation

Double Digit Lending Rates (Imagine, you're mortgage at 23%!)

Double Digit unemployment

Bronx was Burning

Long Gas Lines

How long were those hostages paraded around?

After first ground attack failed, 'cut and run'.

Laughing Stock of the Entire World.

Yeah your right the most disasterous administration in our 'lifetime.'

Soo bad that the next president was elected by 49 states??

But in all fairness WDYT could have be born yesterday OR! He was one of those kids his parents kept locked up in the closet the first 20 years of his life.

But don't worry WDYT Fidel says Jimmy Carter was the best President ever and also said everybody should vote for Clinton/ Obama in 08'.

Do you share the same bottle with Mike? Be careful of that backwash!!!!!!!

"Mormonism is simply a cult. I don't want to carry that into politics, but I don't know if I can separate myself from it."

The you must admit that you are a bigot you open, minded tolerant liberal you. I would say this as well to conservative evangelicals who are dismissing Romney without looking at his credentials and positive leadership attributes.

Why in the world do you care about Romney's faith (or Reid's for that matter) anyway? Are we considering him for theologian in chief or are we considering whether he has the qualifications and experience to lead our country in accordance with the Constitution and laws of our land?

What evidence is there that the tenents of Romney's faith would prescribe that he act in a way that is inconsistent with our national interest? In what ways has Romney's Mormon faith caused harm to the person's or institutions that he has come in contact with and has led? On the contrary, Romney says that his faith has been of great value to him in his life decisions. You may not agree with Romney on the issues and that is fine. However, it is repulsive that libs like Clucker who are supposedly so tolerant and open minded are suddenly so willing to embrace bigotry and discrimination against an honorable and decent person who has served in a positive manner with distinction in his many endeavors. And yet not a peep from them when Olbermann tells hecklers to "F**k their mother" and to "Kill yourself" Nice job, you should be so proud of yourself.

"After 7 and soon to be 8 years of the most disasterous administration in our lifetime, it is highly unlikely that a republican will be elected president any time soon.

You probably already know this know but won't admit it.
Posted by: Why don't you think at August 30, 2007 2:42 PM"

If it's the most disastrous, why is it that the only thing I hear the left whining about is Iraq? What about the economy? Oh, wait, that's doing ok. What about unemployment? Oh, wait, those numbers have been consistently about what they were during the Clinton administration.

And no, I don't mean the war critics when I say "armband wearers". I mean those who claim to be the tolerant and accepting ones who in fact are only that way when my opinion agrees with theirs. Then they proceed to name call and vilify anyone who disagrees with them. You disagree with me. That's fine. That's what America is all about. You have a right to disagree. I don't hate you for it. Won't call you names, or wish for your untimely death. Can you say the same about the majority of those who post on Kos or MoveOn? I don't think so. I've been there and seen it. Been banned too. Not because I was mean or hateful, but because I posted an opinion that disagreed with the mob.

Sorry, but I can't march in goose step with anyone like that. If you don't like my opinion, fine. Say so in a mature manner. But don't get all grade school with me.

And you haven't, by the way. None of that was in any way a reference to you.

You want us to 'acknowledge' a lie? OK, I will 'acknowlege' that you just grossly misrepresented the show, to put it nicely.

Mike lives in the land of sunshine and lollipops, I grossly misrepresented the show, bwahahahahahahahahaha...Ok your smarter than me genius

Olbermann isn't a 'leader'...he is merely a news program commentator who dares challenge a corrupt and incompetent administration that sorely needs to be challenged.

You post here on a site that was founded for those who believe olbylooons are out of their minds, I sir am the sane one in this battle,,,,,,u sir, go back under your rock

The you must admit that you are a bigot you open, minded tolerant liberal you. I would say this as well to conservative evangelicals who are dismissing Romney without looking at his credentials and positive leadership attributes.

Posted by: hank at August 30, 2007 3:07 PM

Well, you know, Hank, I happen to agree that Mormonism is a cult. I don't think I'd have defended that notion the way Clucker defended it, however. To say the least...

Just to poke some fun at that, let me say that there's a few Protestants who were taught at their Sunday School teacher's knee that Catholicism is a cult....

I'm sure Capon would find their difficulty at jettisoning that notion very understandable. Particularly if the Protestant simultaneously confessed that this inculcated "teaching" was, however, influenced by the difference between ....Teddy Kennedy (D)...and Tommy Thompson (R)!.. :D

"If it's the most disastrous, why is that the only thing I hear the left whining about is Iraq?"

The ONLY thing! That's not enough for you? Kind of gives us a peek into the window of your soul.
--------------------------------------------------
"What about the economy?"

What about it? Nothing really to write home about. Real income for middle to lower income Americans down even though it is sharply up for higher income Americans. Achieved largely through aquisition of a National debt that is setting new records each and every day.
-----------------------------------------------
"What about unemployment? Oh wait, those numbers have been consistantly about what they were during the Clinton Administration."

So the best you can offer is that the unemployment situation is 'as good' as it was under Clinton, .... and Iraq really isn't all that important?

Unnecessary WAR isn't important?!?!?!?

Hooey: "I sir, am the sane one in this battle."

Prove it!

Mitt Romney isn't a Christian. He's a Mormon.

You're an idiot.

You post here in support of Keith Olberdoooooche...

Hello? Mcfly?

typo: artiber should be arbiter.

1. Yes, it is hypocrital for the non-religious to pass judgment.

2. I agree with those who say Mormons are not Christians *as historically defined*, even though Mormons call themselves Christians.

3. In political/secular discourse, it is appropriate to lower the bar when it comes to people's own self-perceptions and not contradict them on points of theology.

4. It is OK to bring up the disputed views *as* disputed views and address the controversy. It sounded like Cox started to do this, but then got side-tracked.

"Unnecessary WAR isn't important?!?!?!?
Posted by: Mike at August 30, 2007 3:27 PM"

I never said that. I said it's all you got.

Yes, the war is important. If we lose this, we're screwed. Have you been listening to Iran's saber rattling? Do you think that crazy SOB is going to develop nuclear weapons and then not use them? Are you that naive?

Whether you believe it or not, this is a fight for our way of life. Look around you. Sharia law being enacted in Minnesota where muslim cab drivers can refuse to give the blind rides because they won't transport dogs. And can refuse to let you ride in their cabs if you have alcohol on you.

And no, I'm not Islamophobic. I have muslim friends. But they are assimilating into American culture, not forcing America to accept theirs.

We are fighting radical islam. It is a fight we must win to survive. If we leave the middle east, they will come here. They don't just want us out, they want us dead. The sooner you understand that the better off you'll be.

"5 top worst presidents:"

Nice try, but I lived through the presidency of #1. Jimmy Carter was a complete joke. And the biggest reason that when I got my first chance to vote in 1979, Uncle Ronnie got my vote.

The scoooter libby scandal?

your favorite president did worse himself... not an aide to the president... the guy himself lied under oath.
Shaddup

Dude, any list of the worst presidents ever has to include Jimmy Carter

james buchannon
andrew johnson (between he and Buchannon for worst in history)
warren g harding.
jimmy carter
Ulysses S. Grant
Calvin Coolidge (despite massive popularity)
Herbert Hoover (more debated in modern times. Whether his actual policies were correct or not, still a bad leader who inspired no confidence.)
Richard Nixon (pehaps not in terms of policy and accomplishments, but being forced from office can't be ignored)

dealt with yes-
he commuted his bullshit sentence.

Sound like he dealt with it splendidly
much to your dismay.

Is that a lie then?

dealt with yes-
he commuted his bullshit sentence.

Sound like he dealt with it splendidly
much to your dismay.

Is that a lie then?

"You would LIKE to think so, I'm sure...but rarely is he ever included for reasons obviously lost on you.
Posted by: at August 30, 2007 3:57 PM"

No no. He's not included because Democrats are the ones making the lists.

>Why in the world do you care about Romney's faith (or Reid's for that matter) anyway?

Uh, Gee, I Dunno Hank.

C'Mon Hank don't be a dumbass.

Same reason why people care about Hillary's gender and Obama's skin color.

Because a POTUS that is either Mormon, Female, or Black would be unprecedented.

i cant remember the historian who said it, but in relation to a poll that ranked Bush as one of the worst presidents, he said "this speaks more about the state of history professors than presidents in this country."

Bullshit list...
Polk is considered bad because of the Mexican land grab?
Now thats a Democrat list! Apologizing for a strong
move. He should be top ten... with Reagan!

Kowboy:

- "Yes, the war is important.": Yes, Haliburton and other contracors have done quite well with it. But America ingeneral...not!

- "If we lose we're screwed.": Prove it! You're just falling for right wing scare tactics. "Lose" isn't even the right word for what's happening.

- "Have you been listening to Iran's sabre rattling": Of course I have. How has our bogging ourselves down in Iraq helped this situation. It has made it infinitely worse, if anything.

- "Do you think that crazy SOB is going to develop nuclear weapons and not use them?": I don't know, but how did our invasion and occupation of Iraq help that situation?

- "Are you that naive?": Lets see, so far, it appears that YOU are the one bitten by the naivetivity bug.

- "Whether you believe it or not, this is a fight for our way of life.": Our occupation of IRAQ is a fight for our way of life? Didin't you just call ME naive?

- "Look around you': Trust me, I do. Every day.

- "Sharia law being inacted in Minnesota where muslim cab drivers can refuse to give the blind rides because they won't transport dogs. And can refuse to let you ride in their cabs if you have alcohol on you.": You call THAT "Sharia Law"? How does that differ than pharmicists being legally allowed to not fill "morning after pills" because of their Christian religious beliefs.....You're really stretching on that one Kowboy!

- "And no, I'm not Islamophobic": Borderline maybe, but I'll take your word for it.

- "I have muslin friends.": I remember when it was kool for prejudiced people to say "but I have black friends" as well.

- "But they are assimilating into American culture,not forcing America to accept theirs.": This exact argument has been against every ethnic group that has ever asimulated itself into our country.

- "We are fighting radical Islam"; Just not in the right place.

- "It is a fight we must win to survive": Really! Been swallowing right wing myths again? We've been fighting radical Islam for 1300 years....and it is a 'fight' that will never be completely 'won' or 'lost'....unless you are advocating genocide?

- "If we leave the middle east, they will come here.": I see you've swallowed the granddaddy right wing myth of them all. Why? How are they gonna get here?...An armada of rowboats maybe? Do you REALLY believe that line?

- "they don't just want us out, they want us dead.": A few of them do, but not the vast majority. Are you incapable of coping in a world because a radical few want us dead, even though they hardly have the resources to ever follow through with their murderous desires in mass. There has always been groups and individuals who "want us dead', and there always will be. Why are your leaders so intent on making more of them?

- "The sooner you understand that the better off you'll be.": Oh, I think it's pretty clear that my level of understanding has far surpassed yours.

You would LIKE to think so, I'm sure...but rarely is he ever included for reasons obviously lost on you.

Assface, I lived through seeing our hostages paraded through the streets of Iran, gigantic gas prices where my dad had to go get gas at 4 in the morning, wackalooon recession, Jimmy saying in a debate he discussed nuclear war in the debate with his daughter Amy,,,,,And Im supposed to believe a "peace" accord which held up for what seemed like 30 days is the shining star in his presidency?

This is a president that atempted to switch america to the metric system, presided over what he called a "malaise" oversaw a rescue mission that failed and resulted in deaths, 3 mile island on his presidency and you have the balls to say to me reasons lost on me?

Disgracia fool, disgracia,,,,,,come a little better than that to the table please

Anonymous says

5 top worst presidents:

1. James Buchanan
2. Franklin Pierce .
3. John Adams
4. James K. Polk
5. George W. Bush

Well, I don't know any of the "hundreds" of historians you speak of when you say that GWB is on their 5 worst list, but it seems to me that a more accurate and reliable assessment would be one that balances the opionions of scholars who are on the left and the right.

There happens to be such a list commissioned by the Wall Street Journal:

"In 2000 the Federalist Society came up with a way to remedy the flaws in both types of surveys [academic surveys and public opinion polls]. It asked 78 scholars in history, law and politics to rate the presidents on a five-point scale. "We tried to choose approximately equal numbers of scholars who lean to the left and to the right," explains Northwestern University's James Lindgren, who analyzed the data. "Another way to express this is that we sought to mirror what scholarly opinion might be on the counterfactual assumption that the academy was politically representative of the society in which we live and work."

Mr. Lindgren averaged the ratings for each of the 39 presidents (George W. Bush was not yet elected, and William Henry Harrison and James Garfield were omitted because they died shortly after taking office) and divided them into six categories: great, near great, above average, average, below average and failure.

Some highlights:

• Three presidents made the cut as "great": George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt. They are the top three finishers in most surveys of scholars.

• Eight presidents were judged "near great," including Mr. Reagan, who finished eighth. Among them only James K. Polk (10th) served just one term.

• Among recent presidents, only Mr. Reagan ranked as "near great." JFK (18th) and LBJ (17th) were "above average," George H.W. Bush (21st) and Bill Clinton (24th) "average," and Richard Nixon (33rd), Gerald Ford (28th) and Jimmy Carter (30th) "below average."

• Mr. Clinton was the most controversial president--that is, the scholars' rankings of him diverged more sharply than for anyone else. Woodrow Wilson, who finished 11th overall, was the second most controversial president, but the next three were all among the post-1960 group: Mr. Reagan, Nixon and LBJ.

• Four presidents rated as failures: Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, Warren Harding and James Buchanan. Buchanan finished dead last"

"An obvious question is how the current President Bush would fare if such a survey were conducted today. . . But if liberal and conservative scholars mirror the nation's partisan divide, one may surmise that he would be very controversial--perhaps even more so than his predecessor. His admirers and detractors would perhaps cancel each other out, leaving him somewhere near the middle of the pack. Yet partisan passions have a way of fading with time. Lincoln and FDR both today rank as great, even though both, like Mr. Bush, faced bitter partisan opposition while in office."

"George W. Bush could eventually end up joining the ranks of the greats. The three great presidents have three things in common: All faced unprecedented challenges, all responded to them boldly, and all ultimately were successful. Mr. Bush so far meets two of these criteria: History dealt him an unprecedented challenge in the form of the 9/11 attacks, and no one can deny that he answered it with boldness. If he is able to overcome the current troubles in Iraq, and if he succeeds in his mission of combating Islamist terror by promoting democracy in the Middle East, history will be far kinder to him than are his contemporary critics."

"George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton are likely to bear the brunt for not dealing decisively with the gathering terrorist threat. Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan can also be faulted here, but Mr. Reagan's reputation is probably secure, since it rests on other accomplishments, and Mr. Carter doesn't have much farther to fall."

Top Ten
1.Washington
2. Lincoln
3. FDR
4. Jefferson
5. Theodore Roosevelt
6.Andrew Jackson
7.Truman
8. Reagan
9.Eisenhower
10.Polk

Bottom Ten
39.Buchanan
38.Harding
37.Pierce
36.Andrew Johnson
35.Fillmore
34.Tyler
33.Nixon
32.U.S. Grant
31.Zachary Taylor
30.Jimmy

Haliburton-
ooooohhh blueblog buzzword!
Mikey is getting his daily emailed talking points

I asked earlier:

Why in the world do you care about Romney's faith (or Reid's for that matter) anyway?

"Keeping Hank Honest" replied: Because a Mormon as a president would be
"would be unprecedented"

OK, but how does his status as a Mormon impact your thinking about his qualifications and experience to serve as President? Unless you are a bigot, it shouldn't matter.

"ooooohhh blueblog buzzword!
Mikey is gettin his daily emailed talking points"

No, just stating the truth. I'm not on any "talking points" lists.

haliburton? thats the best you've got mikey?
thats pretty passe... so 90s of you!

"haliburton? thats the best you got mikey?"

Uh hardly anon.....or did you stop reading my 4:09 PM post at "Haliburton"?

Hey . Blah blah blah Bush lied. So blah blah halliburton blah blah blah. Blah blah Plame blah blah Karl Rove blah. Blah blah stole election, blah blah lied, blah blah swiftboating a war hero blah. Republican criminals blah blah, lied blah blah, blah lied blah. Bush dumbest blah, Cheney blah puppet blah. Iraq blah more terrorists blah, illegitimate war blah, blah lie blah blah.

And I havent even chimed in today Mikey, look at all your fans, hey o o o o o

smooches

"Mike exposed:

"Karl Rove" - Didn't mention him once!

"Bush stole election" - "Didn't say that either!

"Swiftboating war hero" - Not that either!

"Republican crininals" - Ditto!

"Bush dumbest" - Didn't get that from me.

"Cheney blah puppet blah" - Not that either.

Got any honest arguments or do you just like trying to shout down the opposition with perceived stereotypical talking point nonsense?

Got any honest arguments or do you just like trying to shout down the opposition with perceived stereotypical talking point nonsense?

This fron a guy who yells right wing right wing right wing at the drop of a hat

i hate that bitch...

So- MSNBC is playing the audio tape of the exchange between Craig and the arresting officer. I am just curious...

How is tapping feet together a sexual proposition?
Or who picks people up in bathroom stalls?

The sting nabbed 40 people... are you telling me 40 people propositioned somebody in the next bathroom stall?

I seriously am confused by the methodology of this sting, and by the amount of people that propositioned another MAN in a men's room. Something is so goofy here, its driving me crazy.

And I am seriously not trying to defend the guy... just don't understand the situation. Any input?

Think about it Benson, imagine if you had gone into that same bathroom on that same day. Do you honestly think that YOU would have been arrested for solicitation, if you had just been minding your business?

If you WERE wronged in such an egregious manner, would you then respond by pleading guilty to ANYTHING?

If 40 people were actually framed in such a manner...then there's a lot more wrong with our system of justice than a framed senator.

I certainly don't buy his innocent plea...and it doesn't really sound like too many others are either.

It seems odd to accept any religion's definition as to what is or isn't a 'cult', since it is likely to decide everything outside of its own definition of 'Christianity' is somehow wrong. If a people believe in Christ and try to follow His teachings, I think if we're honest we have to accept that they are Christian--and the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (called the 'Mormons') do just that.

I'm willing to let Christ decide who is and who isn't Christian, when the time comes. After all, He did say, (paraphrasing) "Not everyone that sayeth unto me, 'Lord, Lord', shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that DOETH the will of my Father, which is in heaven" (emphasis mine). Can you cite one example of Mitt Romney not trying to DO what Christ taught?

Judge the man on his qualifications. At one point, the question of electing a Catholic president (Kennedy) was shocking to many. As in this case, it didn't amount to anything worth worrying about. Romney is a fine man, and would probably make a good president. If you think someone else would be better, fine, but don't denigrate the man's faith.

Libby was prosecuted for lying and obstruction fo justice.
Bush ( who either knew who leaked the name or was MIA as usual) didn't do what he promised to do which was a bold face lie.

You are fucking nuts ?
Posted by: at August 30, 2007 7:39 PM

So you make an assumption that Bush knew or should know every conversation every staff member engaged in and then call someone else nuts for not making the same assumption?

Mormons are not christians. That is a fact. Do some research. It's not Olby or Liberals or Dems, it most of the Christians don't think Mormons are Christians. They have secret rituals, secret underware, believe Jesus is just one God and every MAN can became a God on par with Jesus. It was an openly racist organization till the 1960's and so on.........Just get a clue. The truth hurts, Mormons FIT the definition of a CULT. Again you need to read a book some day and get off the tube.

If Mormonism is a cult, then Harry Reid must be the lead recruiter in the federal government.

Shouldn't the POTUS know what's going in in his own White House, especially when he said he'd get to the bottom of it ?

Posted by: at August 30, 2007 9:06 PM

That's certainly easier said than done when you're talking about phone calls that were made to Rove's home by Marc Cooper and from Libby, at home, to Judy Miller.

Too, you're talking about a statement that was made before a Special Prosecutor was appointed. To conduct any sort of in-house sub-investigation while there's an official one going one would certainly give credence to a claim that you were trying to outmaneuver the Special Prosecutor in his investigation, by dallying with his suspects, his witnesses, in order to shut people up.

per gmcjetpilot:

>

Is it a fact simply because someone said so and you choose to believe it? Isn't that for God to decide? Mormons believe Christ is the Son of God, that He is the Savior, and try to live the teachings of Christ.

>.

And most Christians, for centuries, thought the earth was flat. Didn't make that true, either. A lack of correct information does not constitute truth.

>

As did Christians of the first through fourth centuries, including Irenaeus, Justin Martyr,
Clement of Alexandria, Athanasius, Jerome, and Augustine.

And so does the modern Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology (hardly a Mormon publication):

Here's how The Westminister Dictionary of Christian Theology describes "deification":

"Deification (Greek Theosis) is for orthodoxy the goal of every Christian. Man, according to the Bible, is ?made in the image and likeness of God?...it is possible for man to become like God, to become deified, to become God by grace. This doctrine is based on many passages of both O.T. and N.T. (Psalms 82: (81) .6; 2 Peter 1:4), and it is essentially the teaching both of St. Paul, though he tends to use the language of filial adoption (Romans 8:9-17, Galatians 4:5-7) and the fourth gospel (John 17:21-23)."

>

Excellent advice. Might I suggest "Believing Christ", by Stephen E. Robinson, if you wish to really understand how Mormons feel about Christ. You can order a copy here:

http://deseretbook.com/store/search?search=believing+christ

Sorry, the quotes did not post.

The first paragraph pertains to gmcjetpilot's statement, "Mormons are not Christians. That is a fact"

2nd paragraph, to: "most of the Christians don't think Mormons are Christians"

The 3rd-6th refer to "Jesus is just one God and every MAN can became a God on par with Jesus"

The last refers to "Again you need to read a book some day"

Odd- I was asking for knowledge, not insults. Thanks

Again, I don't understand the protocol for soliciting sex in a bathroom. So if some guy slides his feet over while I am in a bathroom stall, it means he's gay and wants to have sex? 99 out of 100 guys would kick the shit out of a guy that invades his stall. So this is the method used now? Its common?

I am not making excuses for Craig. I am trying to take politics out of the equation. What happened? So a cop hangs out in a bathroom, slides and taps his feet under the stall, and he picks up FORTY GUYS without anyone kicking his ass. I find that hard to believe.

Democrat or Republican! You don't let anyone invade your stall. Its the way it is.

Nevermind!

I wonder if all of Clinton's staff knew he was being blown by an intern. There would be about 50 perjury charges on his staff if they started interviewing from the bottom up instead of the way the Dems attack Bush. Bottom - up!

Was Linda lying? No
Was Monica lying? Yes
Was Billy lying? The court says yes
Was Hillary lying? I say yes. If she didn't know, she is waaaay too dumb to be president. Yes, even dumber than W.

"What evidence is there that the tenents of Romney's faith would prescribe that he act in a way that is inconsistent with our national interest? In what ways has Romney's Mormon faith caused harm to the persons or institutions that he has come in contact with and has led?"

Posted by me on August 30, 2007 3:07 PM

"They have secret rituals, secret underware, believe Jesus is just one God and every MAN can became a God on par with Jesus. It was an openly racist organization till the 1960's and so on.........Just get a clue."

Posted by: gmcjetpilot at August 30, 2007 9:16 PM

Even assuming everything you say is true, gmc, what does any of this have to do with how well he would serve as president? The problem with overt racial discrimination by LDS some 50 years ago has been overtly acknowledged by Romney and he has made known that he regards this episode in Mormon history as unacceptable and that he does not and never has judged people based on race. Do you have evidence that Romney as a person has acted otherwise?

And I would add that, if you think that what you hear about "secret Mormon underware" is true, then that is undoubtedly a disqualifier for you and Romney probably shouldn't be trying to get your vote.

Finallly , I would put this question to you as I did to another poster earlier on this thread:

How does Romney's status as a Mormon impact your thinking about his qualifications and experience to serve as President? Unless you are a bigot, it shouldn't matter.

How does Romney's status as a Mormon impact your thinking about his qualifications and experience to serve as President? Unless you are a bigot, it shouldn't matter.

Posted by: hank at August 30, 2007 10:28 PM

Well said, Hank.

"How does Romney's status as a Mormon impact your thinking about his qualifications and experience to serve as President? Unless you are a bigot, it shouldn't matter.

Posted by: hank at August 30, 2007 10:28 PM

Well said, Hank."
Posted by: Cecelia at August 30, 2007 11:03 PM

Exactly. Besides, there's a separation of church and state still, right?

s to Romney, and I said this before, I dodged a bullet. I would not consider voting for him .for other reasons He has redefined "waffler". I'm glad I don't have to reach the "big question".

Posted by: Clucker at August 30, 2007 11:16 PM

Let's put this one in the cabinet, folks. Some fool is bound to say the same thing toward a Catholic or a Jew at some point and it's going to be a pleasure to pull it out after he's finished posturing and emoting.. :D

I discounted Romney because he appeared to be the kind of person to change views to fit the electorate. The other day, however, while waiting for an eye exam, I read the first couple of pages of an article about his background and was pretty impressed with how he was able to turn a profit in whatever venture he attempted. That alone isn't a deciding factor, but he seems to be quite intelligent. I don't know how he could get around his "change of heart" but Gore certainly did (in the opposite direction) as did Kucinich, because their constituents believed their change was in the right direction. Romney may be able to persuade enough voters of the same, who knows? It is so early. There was a time when Howard Dean appeared to be on the fast track to win the democratic ticket. He'll get plenty of opportunities to explain what impact his faith has on his political career.

wow

You people are all half-wits

BMJ

Only half? Now you're just being polite.

uh...he's not a Christian he's a Morman. The same way that Christians aren't Jews.

Normally you guys are pretty good, but this is just lame.

Morman's believe in Jesus Christ. They worship Jesus Christ. That is not the same as being a Jew. Other religions may not believe that Morman's ARE Christians, but Morman's believe they are Christians.

Accordingto Andy, and Olbermann, they would be the ones who aren't Christians.

They've added on to the Christian Bible with entirely new text, the same way the Christian Bible added to the Jewish Bible, ergo Christians are not Jews concordantly Mormons are not Christians...ergo!

They still consider themselves to be Christians whether you and Olbermann do. You're wrong just as Olbermann is Andy. And it goes without saying that Clucker is wrong. He's always wrong.

I don't think so that lady admitted it was a point of debate whether or not he's a Christian.

Joseph Smith claimed to be a prophet, I think many Christians who aren't Mormon consider him to be a false prophet. And they don't want people two confuse Mormons with them. I think the terms Christian and Mormon are appropriate, and that's the context in which they said that Mitt wasn't a Christian.

Check out

http://romneyforpresident.townhall.com/

Like Mormonism, the blog isn't what it seems.

(Funny photos too.)

So we shouldn't vote for Mitt Romney because he knows a secret handshake? wha?

Found this buried on the yahoo (left wing) news page. What was at the top? Troops leaving Basra. Quitting is much more important than winning to yahoo and the left.

MOHAMMARA, Lebanon - Lebanon's army crushed the last remnants of a militant group in a ferocious gunbattle Sunday that killed 39 of the fighters, ending a bloody three-month siege at a Palestinian refugee camp that was the country's worst internal violence in years.

Nearby villages celebrated with fireworks, drumming and dancing after the government declared victory.

The Qaida-inspired Fatah Islam fighters made their last stand by trying to stage a dawn breakout from the Nahr el-Bared camp, triggering the final gunbattles.

The militants sneaked out through a tunnel to an area of the camp under army control and fought with troops. At the same time, another group of militants struck elsewhere to try to escape. They were aided by outside fighters arriving in cars, said security officials and state-run television.

At this point, anyone who chooses can campaign for the presidency. Eventually, Arianna Huffington dropped out as a candidate.

Jeff: "Found this buried on the (left wing) Yahoo news page".....Everything to the left of near Nazi Wiener Savage is "left wing" to you Jeff.

Jeff: "Found this buried on the (lefft wing) Yahoo news page".....What does that story have to do with either "Left wing", or "right wing"?

Jeff: "Found this buried on the (left wing) Yahoo news page".....Well, it was on there, wasn't it. By what criteria should it have been the 'first' story?

Jeff: "What was at the top? Troops leaving Basra".....Are troops leaving Basra? Are you saying they're NOT leaving Basra?

Jeff: "What was at the top? Troops leaving Basra".....After all, the British ARE/WERE our only real ally in Iraq, by all means, lets don't report anything they are actually doing if it reflects negatively in any way on Jeff's "war effort".

Jeff: "What was at the top? Troops leaving Basra".....You forgot to mention WHY troops were leaving Basra, which was an integral part of the report, and had nothing to do with 'defeat'. Repeat after me Jeff; 'Iraq needs a political solution and not a military one'.

Jeff: "Quitting is much more important to Yahoo and the left than winning".....Actually Jeff, reality "is much more important to Yahoo and the left" than fantasy.

Jeff: "Quitting is much more important to Yahoo and the left than winning".....Ah yes, doesn't Jeff just love to talk about 'winning', as long as he personally doesn't have to make any sacrifices himself along the way?

Liberals hold all Christians in disdain. It is the muslims they support and hold in high esteem.

Liberals hold Christians in great disdain if not actual hatred. It was the way in which liberals treat Christians that made me switch my party affiliation from Liberal to Independent and later to Republican. This is why you people can't win elections.

We know how big a Christian Bill Clinton is. I guess he believed the "laying on off hands" part included groping interns and getting free blow jobs in the Oval Office. Big Christian he is. Now the Dems are trying to embrace their "Christian" sides. Let's hope they do a better job of it than BC did.

If we want to talk about the lack of talking points, let's talk about the Democrats who have one and only response to everything from global warming, to hurricanes, to mine disasters, to bridges falling down, to the war to the sun not shining today: It's Bush's fault!

America is concerned with a sound energy policy,( energy efficiency, reducing global warming etc) [healthcare]sic and the end of the Iraq war.

Issues that all of the GOP candidates are weak on.

Keep talking.It's all you got !

Posted by: at September 3, 2007 8:13 PM

Energy--Least of America's worries, except Goreyloons/global warming alarmists. If the dems are so worried about energy, why do they continue to block any drilling projects? Answer, It's no more than a liberal talking point.

Healthcare--second least of America's worries. What happened to Hillarycare? It flopped.

#1 is Security. First and foremost. Dems want open borders and think terrorists will just go away if we leave Iraq. Appeasement, in other words. Lose, lose for the dems.

Muslims Against Sharia commend Governor Romney for clearly defining the enemy and standing up to Islamist lobby and PC establishment.

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