Olbermann Watch - MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann: Countdown with Keith Olbermann

Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004

September 4, 2007

Countdown with Keith Olbermann - September 4th, 2007

"COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" (8:00 P.M.-9:00 P.M. ET)

Host: Keith Olbermann

Topics/Guests:

SPESHUL KOMMENT: The President's surprise visit to Iraq and his intent...."playing for October-November"
IRAQ: Richard Wolffe, Newsweek senior White House correspondent and MSNBC political analyst; Gen. Wesley Clark, U.S. Army (ret.), fired NATO supreme allied commander and MSNBC analyst
PRES. BUSH AND HIS LEGACY: Wayne Slater, Dallas Morning News senior political writer and co-author of "Bush's Brain"
2008 ELECTION: Chris Cillizza, washingtonpost.com national political reporter

Krazy Keith barked like a small Bichon Frise for the opening spiel. 'The President at war over Iraq on three fronts! The first front, George Bush vs. his own memory! The second front, George Bush vs. his own first man in Bagdahd. Third front, George Bush's comments vs. George Bush's comments!' He can't even afford to call him President once. He's playing for "October-November" (Keith got this from one of his usual blue blogs, ThinkProgress). Iraq is worse for Iraqis and Speshul Komment plug. Hillary tries to be funny on Ellen and Steve Fossett is missing. The DailyKos kids are brought to tears.

#5: "Photo op" in Iraq. President is hoping the Republican Presidential candidates will have to "drink his kool aid." The trip to Iraq was designed to "steal the Democrats thunder" before they return to congress. OlbyPlanet seems to be under the impression that the Democrats have any thunder with approval ratings like 18%. Fat Ass gives the President a clip. GAO report sounds bad for the war. Wolffe Man enters stage left with an attempt to look smart with books behind him.
"Why al-Anbar for the photo op?" Wolffe Man concedes there is good news and it should be applauded. But he tries to make it seem like nothing has REALLY changed because...well.....oh those damn Sunni Sheiks decided they were tired of being killed by al-Qaeda in Iraq along with other Sunni and Shia insurgents. It's a "mixed picture." The administration is going to jump on anything that shows violence down and "claim it's their own." Gee, I wonder why? Maybe because the violence is down they should tout their accomplishments? Or is that only bad when Republicans do it? "How do Democrats respond to the President's two week head start?" "They fight it. Win over Republicans." GAO leak was a massive conspiracy. Great thanks.

"Mister" Bush is trying to distance himself, from himself! Zing! Paul Bremer and the great army dissolve scandal. Fired (ret.) General Clark comes to play patticake with Olbermann. Great insight about how we failed to plan for security - we didn't do it. The President was on his ranch when he corresponded with Amb. Bremer. Ok, I care, because? Gen. Clark rambles about how they should have maintained the army. "Does the finger pointing matter or does the President bear the responsibility?" asks Keith. Clark declares we have "failed." Great pleasured he was.

"I AM PLAYING OCTOBER-NOVEMBER" quotes Hauptmann. Speshul Komment plug again.

#4: President trying to shape his legacy. Another Saddam's army disbandment scandal mention. "Bush's Brain" author. I can't imagine why he is on Countdown. Keith NEVER uses "Bush's Brain." Slater filibusters about everyone building legacies or something. The President is going to ride out his Presidency any "damn well way he pleases." He's either Hoover or Truman, he's more like Hoover says Slater. "Is he checking out when he checks out?" "He'll be the slacker in chief." "Has he been stoic or saying 'how I pity me'? There are two Bushes according to Slater. Laura and the girls were the quickest to puncture his balloon when he "pities himself." Great thanks.

Another Speshul Komment plug. The President is a liar.

Oddball: El Salvadorians throwing rags on fire. World moustache and beard competition. Breaking News: Sen. Larry Craig reconsiders.

Newsmakers: Michael Imperioli, someone on a mountain, Sen. John McCain.

#3: Sen. Larry Craig reconsiders his decision via the AP. Chris Cillizza discerns from the headline that Sen. Larry Craig is reconsidering his decision. NO WAY! Blabbing about legal versus political reality. His family is telling him not to resign, they think. Yawn. Keith thinks Cillizza did fantastic work under the pressure of breaking news. Speshul Komment plug.

Keeping Tabs: Steve Fossett is missing. Brad Pitt has people lunge at him.

In the Media Matters minute, a columnist from the evil WorldNetDaily for repeating a column in which Castro calls Clinton/Obama unbeatable - MediaMatters. Thabo Mbeki gets the silver. Evil 'Neo-Con' wins the gold, VP Chief of Staff David Addington comes out in favor of terror via CarpetBaggerReport.

~~Olbermann's book~~ The book that bears Olbermann's name limped along at #17,438 on amazon.com, but "Culture Warrior" is #4,270. (It's that 2-for-$25 sale!) The OlbyTome managed to - wait - it didn't. It's still unranked at Barnes and Noble; O'Reilly's book is #1,832 there, and is one of the top five books of 2006 per Publishers Weekly. Tonight's MisterMeter reading: LOONY [HELP!]

APPENDIX: Keith's Latest Speshul Education Komment

Finally tonight, a Special Comment about Mr. Bush's trip, and his startling admission of the true motive for this war, which was revealed in his absence.

And so he is back from his annual surprise gratuitous photo-op in Iraq, and what a sorry spectacle it was.

But it was nothing compared to the spectacle of one unfiltered, unguarded, horrifying quotation in the new biography to which Mr. Bush has consented.

As he deceived the troops at Al-Asad Air Base yesterday with the tantalizing prospect that some of them might not have to risk being killed and might get to go home...
Mr. Bush probably did not know that, with his own words, he had already proved that he had been lying... is lying... will be lying.... about Iraq.

He presumably did not know, that there had already appeared those damning excerpts from Robert Draper's book "Dead Certain."

"I'm playing for October-November," Mr. Bush said to Draper.
That, evidently, is the time during which, he thinks he can sell us the real plan.

Which is, to quote him: "To get us in a position where the presidential candidates, will be comfortable about sustaining a presence."Comfortableâ€ -- that is -- with saying about Iraq, again quoting the President, "stay... longer."

And there it is, Sir.
We've caught you.

Your goal is not to bring some troops home -- maybe -- if we let you have your way now;

Your goal is not to set the stage for eventual withdrawal;

You are, to use your own disrespectful, tone-deaf word, playing at getting the next Republican nominee to agree to jump into this bottomless pit with you, and take us with him, as we stay in Iraq for another year, and another, and another, and anon.

Everything you said about Iraq yesterday, and everything you will say, is a deception, for the purpose of this one cynical, unacceptable, brutal goal -- perpetuating this war indefinitely.

War today, war tomorrow, war forever!

And you are playing at it!

Playing!

A man with any self-respect, having inadvertently revealed such an evil secret, would have already resigned and fled the country!

You have no remaining credibility about Iraq, Sir.

And yet, yesterday at Al-Asad, Mr. Bush kept playing -- and this time, using the second of his two faces.

The President told reporters, quote -- "They, (General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker) "tell me if the kind of success we are now seeing continues, it will be possible to maintain the same level of security with fewer American forces."

And so, Mr. Bush got his fraudulent headlines today.
"Bush May Bring Some Troops Home."

While the reality is, we know from what he told Draper, that the President's true hope is that they will not come home; but that they will stay there, because he is keeping them there now, in hope that those from his political party fighting to succeed him, will prolong this unendurable disaster into the next decade.

But, to a country dying of thirst, the President seemed to vaguely promise a drink from a full canteen -- a promise predicated on the assumption that he is not lying.

Yet you are lying, Mr. Bush.
Again.

But now, we know... why.

You gave away more of yourself than you knew in the Draper book...

And you gave away more still, on the arduous trip back out of Iraq -- hours in the air, without so much as a single vacation.

"If you look at my comments over the past eight months," you told reporters, "it's gone from a security situation -- in the sense that we're either going to get out and there will be chaos, or, more troops. Now, the situation has changed, where I'm able to speculate on the hypothetical."
Mr. Bush, the only "hypothetical" here is that you are not now holding our troops... hostage.
You have no intention of withdrawing them.

But that doesn't mean you can't pretend you're thinking about it, does it?

That is your genius, Sir -- as you see it, anyway.

You can deduce what we want -- we, the people, remember us? -- and then use it against us.

You can hold that canteen up and promise it to the parched nation.

And the untold number of Americans whose lives have not been directly blighted by Iraq -- or who do not realize that their safety has been reduced and not increased by Iraq -- they will get the bullet points: 'Bush is thinking about bringing some troops home. Bush even went to Iraq.'

You can fool some of the people all of the time, can't you, Mr. Bush?

You are playing us!

And as for the most immediate victims of the President's perfidy and shameless manipulation -- those troops, yesterday sweating literally as he spoke at Al-Asad Air Base...
Tonight, again sweating figuratively in The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death...

The President saved, for them, the most egregious "playing" in the entire trip.

"I want to tell you this about the decision, about my decision about troop levels. Those decisions will be based on a calm assessment by our military commanders on the conditions on the ground -- not a nervous reaction by Washington politicians to poll results in the media."
One must compliment Mr. Bush's writer.
That, perhaps, was the mostly perfectly crafted phrase of his Presidency.

For depraved indifference to Democracy, for the craven projection of political motives onto those trying to save lives and save a nation, for a dismissal of the value of the polls and the importance of the media... for a summary of all he does not hold dear about this nation or its people -- nothing... could top that.

As if, Sir, you listened to all the "calm assessments" of our military commanders --rather than firing the ones who dared say The Emperor Has No Clothes, and The President, No Judgment;

As if, Sir, your entire presidency was not a "nervous reaction", and you yourself, nothing but a Washington politician;

As if, Sir, "the media" does not largely divide into those parts your minions are playing, and those others who unthinkingly and uncritically serve as your echo chamber, at a time when the nation's future may depend on the airing of dissent.

And as if, Sir, those polls were not so overwhelming, and not so clearly reflective of the nation's agony... and the nation's insistence.

But this President has ceased to listen.

This President has decided that night is day, and death is life, and enraging the world against us, is safety.

And this laziest of Presidents, actually interrupted his precious time off to fly to Iraq to play at a photo opportunity... with soldiers... some of whom will... on his orders... be killed before the year... maybe the month... is out.

---

Just over 500 days remain in this Presidency.

Consider the dead who have piled up on the battlefield.... in these last 500 days.

Consider the singular fraudulence of this President's trip to Iraq yesterday, and the singular fraudulence of the selling of The Petraeus Report... in these last 500 days.

Consider how this President has torn away at the fabric of this nation in a manner of which terrorists can only dream... in these last 500 days.

And consider again how this President has spoken to that biographer: that he is "playing for October-November"... the goal in Iraq is "To get us in a position where the presidential candidates will be comfortable about sustaining a presence"... and consider how this revelation contradicts every other rationale he has offered... in these last 500 days.

In the context of all that... now, consider... these next 500 days.

Mr. Bush, our presence in Iraq must end.

Even if it means your resignation.

Even if it means your impeachment.

Even if it means a different Republican to serve out your term.

Even if it means a Democratic Congress -- and those true Patriots among the Republicans -- standing up and denying you another **penny** for Iraq, other than for the safety and the safe conduct home of our troops.

This country cannot run the risk of what you can still do to this country... in the next 500 days...

Not while you, Sir... are playing.

Good night, and good luck.

Posted by Edward Schatz | Permalink | Comments (253) | | View blog reactions

253 Comments

By Mike is a Turd on September 4, 2007 4:15 PM

Actually its kind of smart for him to start this week with a speeshul komment, to see if he can build momentum off of last week

Oh, and Mike still sucks

By cee on September 4, 2007 4:31 PM

"Then take it into your own hands, Mr. Bush.

"Go to Baghdad now and fulfill, finally, your military service obligations.

"Go there and fight, your war. Yourself."

Keith Olbermann 7/19/07

###
I am pretty sure Olbermann will reference his challenge to President Bush to "go to Iraq," as some kind of irony in light of the visit this weekend.....

And his ever famous indignant stare over the top rims of his girly glasses with a concomitant shoulder shake and dramatic pause will occur with the observation......

How I love the man's theatrics....thank goodness for MSNBC video archives....

I enjoy a good belly laugh every once is a while.

By cee on September 4, 2007 4:49 PM

No, O'lielly, you and I both know you wouldn't believe if you saw Him squish W's little head between his thumb and index finger with your own eyes.

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 5:18 PM

Crap, ESchatz, dude I love ya, but your recapping skills of late leave a lot to be desired.

Wheeeerrreeeeesssss Johnnnnnnny???????

By Paul on September 4, 2007 5:34 PM

Even though Hillary, Durbin etc have all agreed that the surge is working; even though some of the far left media (including the perky one KC!)have agreed the surge is working; and even though it REALLY does look like the surge is working, Herr Olbermann (who loves to create news even if he has to make it up!) will first talk about George Bush being in Iraq only for 5 or 6 hours. He will talk about "Mister" Bush being constantly protected even though Iraq is supposed to be safe now (of course, forgetting the fact that he is protected everywhere he goes in the U.S. also but that of course doesn't count!). He will of course bring up the fact that the progess in Anbar was initiated by the Iraqis THEMSELVES (hmm, now wasn't that "mister" Bush's goal from day one????) indicating of course that the success of the surge had absolutely NOTHING to do with the U.S.!! He will predict that next week's report will be all positive or at least mostly positive but of course he will bring up the GAO report and of course distort it to fit what he wants it to be! And basically he will repeat what he main far left blogs say verbatim!

That folks will be the SPECIAL KOMMENT tonight by Edward R. Olbermahn!!

(turn face right now!)

STAY TUNED AS ZI HOUR OF SPIN APPROACHES!!

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 7:00 PM

Bush has been to Iraq 3x in 4 years. When has Olbermann ever been there? Even Katie Couric has been to Iraq. But Oralman? Never.

By news you can use on September 4, 2007 7:14 PM

I think we know why the special comment will be apon us tonight...Fridays demo numbers really lacking....at least he had one day to gloat.

O'Reilly demo #s 306

Olbermann demo #s 207

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/default.asp

By James on September 4, 2007 7:28 PM

Looks like Keith's "Special Comment" has been lifted straight from the liberal blog "Think Progress". Check it out:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/03/bushs-hope-for-successor-stay-longer-in-iraq/

By Missy on September 4, 2007 7:28 PM

Keith is slamming Bush for only being in Iraq for 6 hours? This, coming from the ONLY news guy in the world who hasn't been there himself?

Even Katie Couric is over there now.

By John Wayne on September 4, 2007 7:42 PM

Bet yer ass the solbyloons will see NO hypocrisy, either, missy. Blind partisan hacks, all of em!

By benson on September 4, 2007 7:55 PM

Way to go James- calling your shot!

Speshul Comment is already written by a blue blog. Imagine that! This guy should footnote all his shows with links to the bloggers that did his homework... it would take the last 5 minutes of each show.

He's fat AND lazy... do some work yourself KeithO

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 7:57 PM

According to ABC, General Patreaus will call for an end to the surge by March of next year, and suggest troop reductions at that time.

By benson on September 4, 2007 8:03 PM

Just calling our shots before he twists the facts and puts his loon spin on the triip- clucker

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 8:03 PM

Actually, its the fact that no ones heard of him that pisses me off. If he were as well known as O'Rielly i know people would just write him off as a hack like they do Bill O. But I worry that people will actually turn to him for real news (that is what he claims to be after all) unaware of his political leanings and constant parrots and one-sided stories. I want the word spread about Olbermann. I want everyone to know who he is. That, or he could just admit to being a liberal. For instance, i hate glenn beck, and no one knows who he is, but he loves to tell people he's a conservative (like every five minutes from what i've seen) so i dont worry about him.

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 8:11 PM

kieth olbermann makes bill clinton look like margaret thatcher

By Ed on September 4, 2007 8:11 PM

The man is nothing but a F-ing idiot. I should know, Im his mother.

By Brandon on September 4, 2007 8:24 PM

You know that "thinking" and "reading" Olby claims he does all day in the NY Magazine interview I posted earlier today? I guess the "thinking" part was Think Progress as in, "Let me lift this article I just read to help me write my latest Special Education Komment".

By Cecelia on September 4, 2007 8:36 PM

How I love the man's theatrics....thank goodness for MSNBC video archives....

I enjoy a good belly laugh every once is a while.

Posted by: cee at September 4, 2007 4:31 PM

The stills are great too, Cee.

I get side-stitches whenever OW runs the one of Olbermann doing his serious face. My guess is that he practices it in the mirror and calls the look "Murrow Marble" ala Zoolander. :D

http://flickr.com/photos/16002389@N00/265263241/in/set-72157594320243938/

By AWOLbush on September 4, 2007 9:08 PM

From the special comment:

As he deceived the troops at AlAsad Air Base yesterday with the tantalizing prospect that some of them might not have to risk being killed and might get to go home, Mr. Bush probably did not know that, with his own words, he had already proved that he had been lying, is lying, will be lying about Iraq.

He presumably did not know, that there had already appeared those damning excerpts from Robert Draper's book "Dead Certain." "I'm playing for October-November," Mr. Bush said to Draper. That, evidently, is the time during which, he thinks he can sell us the real plan. Which is, to quote him: "To get us in a position where the presidential candidates, will be comfortable about sustaining a presence."

Comfortable, that is, with saying about Iraq, again quoting the President, "stay longer."

And there it is, Sir. We've caught you.

Fuckin AWOL is so stupid he brags to an author about cashing in on his presidency and his real reasons for staying in Iraq!

DUMBFUCK!

By mlong on September 4, 2007 9:24 PM

"With all of the republican nonsense in the news these days, KO will have an abundance of material to choose from."

Sure as long as he and the rest of the MSM choose to ignore Hillary's latest "funny" money scandals.

By mlong on September 4, 2007 9:37 PM

Hey were a week away from 9/11...anybody think KO will officially join the "Truth" movement and blame Bush for being behind the attacks?..

I've said I believe there are 2 "Super Special Comments" coming from KO in the next year...one will be when he declares 9/11 an "inside" job" and the second when he endorses Hillary for President.

By benson on September 4, 2007 9:40 PM

Typical apologist liberal...

She returned the money AFTER she was caught. Whats the big deal.

LOSERS!

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 9:41 PM

I guess if Jefferson gave back the bribe money in his freezer all would be OK?

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 9:41 PM

Ah, here we go. Speshul Komment. Bush is a liar, blah, blah, blah.

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 9:43 PM

I hope we stay in Iraq as long as it takes for us to nuke Iran and Syria.

By mlong on September 4, 2007 9:43 PM

"By saying it oer and over isn't going to make ture,"

But it is true and a pattern of behavior the Clinton's take money from questionable sources and when caught they act "shocked" "return" it and then their labdogs in the MSM cover up and downplay the story or in the case of the new "Murrow" like KO refuse to address it all.

By benson on September 4, 2007 9:45 PM

Olies- Nothing working for Bush?.... how about that 2004 election? Scoreboard!

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 9:45 PM

Oh Lord, the purple prose. Such drama. Drama Queen Olby. What a joke. Now the troops are hostages. Riiiight. Bush has kidnapped a fighting force who voluntarily enlisted to serve their country.

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 9:46 PM

As IF, sir...LOL.

By Rico on September 4, 2007 9:47 PM

Was that Katy Couric stating that there have been "significant" improvements in Iraq?

I'm waiting for the first post on the Daily Koz starting with the words "Die, Katy". Or has that already happened?

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 9:48 PM

Is Olby still talking? Lord, make it stop!

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 9:49 PM

oh- the old cut-n-paste retort!
BUSH LIES! BUSH LIES!
Good one....

By Joe Richards on September 4, 2007 9:49 PM

Olberman.

Your constant one sided ranting and vile hatred for President Bush makes you look stupid. Is there anything this President has done right? Or are you to blind and dumb to see it? I'm tired of watching your sorry ass. Goodbye!

By Mike on September 4, 2007 9:50 PM

I am happy with Bush- what is Keith's problem?

By AWOLBush on September 4, 2007 9:50 PM

This board used to be so lively! What happened? It's deader than Ronnie Raygun!

The Reich Wingers and Busheep are so demoralized that even Ed's hystrionics can't get em to show up here anymore!

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 9:54 PM

Its shows how clueless you democrats are...
Hillary gave back the money TWICE in one week SO
there is no scandal. Pathetic that you sheep buy that
shit. Hillary is dirty and its only a matter of time
before she follows your second place crew.
Gore-Kerry-Clinton!

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 9:55 PM

nice cut and paste billy boy!
you are a one trick pony too.

By Mike on September 4, 2007 9:55 PM

"Nothing working for Bush... How about that 2004 election? Scoreboard!"

Is this REALLY how you think Benson? Simply STAYING on as president as he runs our country into the ground is the definition of success?

By benson on September 4, 2007 9:57 PM

It sounds like you guys are still bitter....
Same old shit- Bush lies... Bush is ruining this
country... its tired and only your opinion!

By AWOLbush on September 4, 2007 9:58 PM

Happy with AWOL? LOL !

You must be either an Iraqi or an ultra wealthy ReichWinger. Traitorbush only give a shit about those two groups.

Ooops! I forgot the SAUDIS! Bush-laden loves them too.

Wait till Psycho AWOL's comments to Draper about 'filling the coffers' and 'Oct-Nov' get wide play. He'll be DREAMING of that 26% popularity rating.

He'll always have his David Korshesh like brainwashed cultist followers like the Sheepie on this board though!

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 10:00 PM

Have you heard Hillary in a debate-
Her shrillness makes the Dean scream sound
like melodic. So bring on 2008.

She has the highest DISAPPROVAL ratings
of any candidate EVER. So I lie?

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 10:00 PM

These Speshul Komments are a bore, Olby. Same crap, different day. Zzzzzzz.

By Ed on September 4, 2007 10:01 PM

To think that a great president like JFK got his head blown off and GWB lives to send more troops to die.

There is no justice in this world.

Please tell me what far off land that JFK sent our troops.

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 10:04 PM

So the Hillary dirty money isn't a scandal?
Is that what you loons are saying?
She returned it- so no scandal.
She's clean?

By Mike on September 4, 2007 10:07 PM

Benson:

"It sounds like you guys are still bitter.".....This isn't a football rivalry Benson We are 'bitter' because of the damage he has done to America. You just don't get that, do you?

"Same old shit- Bush lies.".....Should we stop telling the truth about him just because it's getting old?

"Bush is ruining this country."....Bush IS ruining this country!

"It's tired and only your opinion!.....It's a very educated 'opinion' based on a preponderance of facts.

It's clear from reading your posts over time that you REALLY don't get it Benson!

By Olielly Sucks on September 4, 2007 10:12 PM

He look everybody, retarded cut'n'paste moron O'lielly is off his meds, again...

Whatsa matter kid, the short bus forget you again this morning?

By benson on September 4, 2007 10:13 PM

Mike-
Your whole premise on the tearing this country apart is really rooted in the war. I get it- you don't like the war. And the country is more partisan than ever... I get it too.

But you liberals insist the country is going to hell quickly... spare me your morose opinion. The country is still strong.

The democrats are now in power and have done nothing to stop the unpopular war. Yet you blame Bush for tearing this country apart? It takes two to tangle, and the democrats have gone so far left that the middle ground is held by very few. So quit blaming Bush and do something,

You have become the party of whiners. No actions- just bitching. And your queen Keith has become the poster child of the democrats. All rant- no action.

By Anonymous on September 4, 2007 10:16 PM

So bring on Hillary....

Is it the Republican's fault that Gore and Kerry were essentially unelectable. You blame Bush for your party's ineptitude.

Right now the Hillary bandwagon has left the terminal... without any testing, just all hoorahs. She has yet to prove herself battle worthy. And STILL has high disapproval ratings.

She could beat Bush- but she is running against Bush.

By Joker on September 4, 2007 10:17 PM

Olbermann's Special Comments were funny!
He was screaming and turning red!
It was hilarios!

By Bill O'lielly on September 4, 2007 10:18 PM

Hey,,,, look....at... me... I''m stoopid!!!!

By not e e cummings on September 4, 2007 10:22 PM

First day of the work week and what do we find?
Special Comment reveals torn fabric of Olby's mind
He's unhinged forever
And he ain't gonna get better
Krazy Keith's sanity stuck in a bind

By Olby's Wig on September 4, 2007 10:33 PM

Stay tuned! - Translation. E Shit's may have his commentary up by tomorrow noon. A special comment night and Johnny Dollar leaves E Shit's in charge. I can hear it now.

Johnny Dollar: " Your doing a helluva job there E Shit's"

By royal king on September 4, 2007 10:40 PM

I have to admit, Mr. Olbermann blew me away tonight. A strong, well-reasoned and well-delivered commentary. This is going to be remembered. And, I didn't think Mr. Olbermann had this in him. Well done. Very well done, indeed. Is this the long-awaited Second Front?

Olbermann + Bremer + Draper + Craig. Not a good day for Bush. Not at all.

Posted by: Clucker at September 4, 2007 9:58 PM

This coming from someone whos supposedly "rarely" watches the orange faced prick. LOL! She was "blown away" with the Craig news!!!!!

By Mike on September 4, 2007 10:45 PM

Benson:

"Your whole premise n the tearing this country apart is really rooted in the war.".....My "whole premise" is based on the 'whole' picture, which IS very much dominated by the war. The negative consequences of this fiasco will linger with us far into the future. This you clear fail to see.

"I get it, you don't like the war." Do YOU like the war Benson? Why would any sane person 'like' the war?

"And the country is more partisan than ever...I get it too"....Apparently you don't if you think that's a good thing.

"But you liberals insist the country is going to hell quickly.".....Can you actually ignor record international debt and still pretend everything is going to be OK dokey?

"Spare me your morose opinion"....As I watch people like you skip happily along towards the edge of the cliff.

"The country is still strong"...."Still" is the key word here, and even that is a matter of opinion. Does that mean we should just ignor all the negative indicators?

"The Democrats are now in power and have done nothing to stop the unpopular war.".....No, their not really "in power". You and I both know there is not YET enough of a majority to effect real change, especailly with so many cowardly fence sitters.

"Yet you blame Bush for tearing this country apart?".....So I should blame an ineffective police investigation for the murder they failed to solve?

"It takes two to tangle,".....Did you mean 'tango'?

"and the democrats have gone so far to the left that the middle ground is held by very few"....On the contrary, not enough Democrats have taken a stand, and that is a problem.

"So quit blaming Bush and do something."....What would you suggest I do, stick my head down in the sand and keep it there like most of the rest of the nation? Why in the hell do you keep suggesting I shouldn't blame the problem on the one who created the problem?

"You have become the party of whiners."....And you are the party of synchophants. For six years, the republicans in Congress have viewed their mission as impowering Bush and little else. The missing word here is OVERSIGHT, or dereliction of duty. A president is not supposed to be a king!

"No actions- just bitching.".....Bitching generally preceeds action, but the wheels are turning far too slowly for my tastes.

"and your queen has become a poster child of the democrats. All rant- no action.".....Clearly we still need a few more 'poster children' in today's timid media.

By Paul on September 4, 2007 10:47 PM

Wonder when we'll see the review of tonight's show - before Xmas??

Johnny, we miss ya!!

By Cecelia on September 4, 2007 11:06 PM

OMG.....

Could anyone have believed it would be possible to see this sort of absurd demagogic rant by a member of the news staff on a national television network? Sweet!

And what a dazzling display of logic it was! Petraeus thinks a draw-down is necessary, the president says he'll do it, and yet this somehow contradicts the president's desire that the U.S. continues to maintain a presence in Iraq...

"And you, Sir, care nothing"..... [head turn to the right] ... One more Special Comment segment and Olbermann's utter morphing into Howard Beale will be complete. Dan Abrams and MSNBC can congratulate themselves on their new corporate/media/network/blue blog industrial complex... Where's Paddy Chayefsky when you need him? Poor guy would probably be lucky to get a job sweeping up the editing room floor for Brian DePalma if he were still around...

The most exciting thing to come about is that our boy seems to have willfully put himself into a corner in order to back the Democratic presidential candidates into a corner. Most of them have been making noises about a continued military presence in Iraq. After Olbermann's calculated and demagogic temper tantrum overtly calling on the Dems to end the war ...by any means necessary... he's going to seem a teensy bit ...silly....making excuses for them...after the primary.

I predict a "her hands are tied and at least she wants everyone to have free health care" stance by then... :D

By Olby's Wig on September 4, 2007 11:08 PM

Wonder when we'll see the review of tonight's show - before Xmas??

Johnny, we miss ya!!

Posted by: Paul at September 4, 2007 10:47 PM

No, not even if you use the Orthodox calendar and spot him an extra 2 weeks.

By Cecelia on September 4, 2007 11:12 PM

It was very sweet indeed !
Keith olbermann has the guts to call em as they are.
Great job Keith.
Now, Cecelia, back to the bottle.

Posted by: at September 4, 2007 11:10 PM

Great! You join me and we'll toast to Keith. He's going to have to have the guts to stick with his words as well...

By Mike on September 4, 2007 11:17 PM

"Could anyone have believed it would be possible to see this sort of absurd demogogic rant by a member of the news staff on a national television network? Sweet!"

One person's definition of an "Absurd demogogic rant" is another person's definition of being unafraid to speak out with reality and truth.

Yes, it IS rather sad that it has come to this.

By Olby's Wig on September 4, 2007 11:25 PM

One person's definition of an "Absurd demogogic rant" is another person's definition of being unafraid to speak out with reality and truth.

Yes, it IS rather sad that it has come to this.

Posted by: Mike at September 4, 2007 11:17 PM

Is this Mike as in Mike "Truth Seeker" Malloy?

By Mike on September 4, 2007 11:33 PM

Yes, yes.....as in the declothing of "the flying-monkey right".

Did anyone see Geoge Bush today in that clip showing him shaking hands in those loose fitting jeans? no ass at all! He kind of looked like that monkey we know him to be.

By Cecelia on September 4, 2007 11:38 PM

Yes, it IS rather sad that it has come to this.
Posted by: Mike at September 4, 2007 11:17 PM

It's sad that Olbermann is "unafraid to speak out with reality and truth" or it's sad to see a news anchor and journalist go into spasms of apoplexy because he is unable to separate himself and his wishes from news coverage and even new analysis in the way that journalists have done when covering Vietnam or Yalta...

By Edward Schatz on September 4, 2007 11:42 PM

hahah I like the comments here. Someone should do my job and see how fast you get sick of Olby's garbage.

By Mike on September 4, 2007 11:56 PM

"It's sad that Olbermann is "Unafraid to speak out with reality and truth" or it's sad to see a news anchor and jounalist go into spasms of apoplexy because he is unable to separate himself and hiw wishes from news coverage and even new analysis in the way that journalists have done when covering Vietnam or Yalta...."

Yes, it's sad that this has become necessary, isn't it?

- Its' sad that we have a president who won't speak the truth.

- It's sad that we have a citizenry literally paralized with fear and indecision because they no longer know what to believe.

- It's sad that we have a corporate controlled MSM that has become virtually afraid of it's own shadow after enduring years of cries of "liberal media bias" from the right.

By Olby's Wig on September 4, 2007 11:58 PM

hahah I like the comments here. Someone should do my job and see how fast you get sick of Olby's garbage.

Posted by: Edward Schatz at September 4, 2007 11:42 PM

Hey, that goes with the job description. If you are unable or unwilling to post prompt reviews, like say Johnny Dollar, grab an empty box, clean out your shit and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

By Cecelia on September 5, 2007 12:05 AM

es, it's sad that this has become necessary, isn't it?

- Its' sad that we have a president who won't speak the truth.

- It's sad that we have a citizenry literally paralized with fear and indecision because they no longer know what to believe.

- It's sad that we have a corporate controlled MSM that has become virtually afraid of it's own shadow after enduring years of cries of "liberal media bias" from the right.

Posted by: Mike at September 4, 2007 11:56 PM

It's sad...... that you have to equate ethical compromise by journalists with their NOT behaving like the politician character in a Spanish soap opera....

By Edward Schatz on September 5, 2007 12:07 AM

Mmm....maybe, but I like it here. But deciphering OlbyLogic can drive one mad.

By Rico on September 5, 2007 12:11 AM

Mike,

So you think that W's ass is too skinny? I guess that means that you prefer a real man's ass-like Keith's! Are you about to come out, or something?

By Mike on September 5, 2007 12:16 AM

Cmon Schatz...stop responding to your abuse like a wimp!

Oh yeah...but it's your own people abusing you, huh Ed?

After all, I certainly understand how hard it is to spin Olbermann's words in the required negative direction.

By royal king on September 5, 2007 12:17 AM

- It's sad that we have a citizenry literally paralized with fear and indecision because they no longer know what to believe.

- It's sad that we have a corporate controlled MSM that has become virtually afraid of it's own shadow after enduring years of cries of "liberal media bias" from the right.

Posted by: Mike at September 4, 2007 11:56 PM

Wow, no wonder you spend so much time here. I have called you a coward in the past, but, I was just being "satirical." You're actually "paralyzed with fear?" Maybe you should take up residence with clucker/philby/rudy/jennifer. She needs someone to run her mad dog and cheese from her car to her house! She can sit by the windows and keep a lookout for the big bad Mountain Lion while you make a run for it.

By Mike on September 5, 2007 12:22 AM

Rico:

"So, you think that W's ass is too skinnhy?"....Not really. I just think it helps make him look like the monkey he is.

"I guess that means that you prefer a real man's ass-like Keith's!".....Don't know, I've never seen Keith's ass. This site tells me it'a big though. Good to see you call Keith a 'real man'...didn't think you had that in you, Rico.

"are you about to come out, or something?".....Well, I am about to "or something".

By Deacon on September 5, 2007 12:23 AM

What a narcissistic blowhard. My gosh, will somebody stuff a sock in this ham?

By Mike on September 5, 2007 12:27 AM

Jeff: "She can sit by the windows and keep a lookout for the big bad mountain lion while you make a run for it.".....Naw, cain't do it! I'm just too busy defendin thu missus from bears in my own yard.

By royal king on September 5, 2007 12:46 AM

yawn....

By cee's belly laughs on September 5, 2007 1:05 AM

>I enjoy a good belly laugh every once is a while.

Posted by: cee at September 4, 2007 4:31 PM

That's nice to know cee, since you've essentially admitted on this board that you believe sex should be traditional intercourse, in the missionary position, with the lights off, and only in an effort to conceive....

I'm glad you're still able to have some fun in this world!

By Hide the Remote on September 5, 2007 1:12 AM

>It's sad...... that you have to equate ethical compromise by journalists with their NOT behaving like the politician character in a Spanish soap opera....

Posted by: Cecelia at September 5, 2007 12:05 AM

HUH!?!

Cecelia's been watching Daytime Telemundo again...

By Mike on September 5, 2007 1:14 AM

But Cee has been known to prescribe Viagra....for procreation purposes, of course!

By O'lielly Sucks on September 5, 2007 1:15 AM

Joker.. perhaps you should not use words you cannot spell

Posted by: Bill O'lielly at September 4, 2007 10:25 PM

This coming from a pinhead who cuts and pastes to avoid misspelling.

By Joker on September 5, 2007 1:20 AM

Olbermann was funny tonight!
He should have a show on Comedy Central!

By Bill O'lielly on September 5, 2007 1:21 AM

Quit,,, calling me names...you..mean dirty nasty fellow!!!

By O'lielly Sucks on September 5, 2007 1:24 AM

Olbermanhandler deserves another crease in his skull.

By O'lielly Sucks on September 5, 2007 1:28 AM

No offense to those of his supporters with zippers across their foreheads, of course.

Nah, I'm kidding, you deserve the offense.

By olbyhater on September 5, 2007 1:34 AM

"""""You have no remaining credibility about Iraq, Sir.""""""

hahaha... Keith is saying that (in his eyes) Bush right up until now, had credibility about Iraq?

and he says Bush is lying again? when did Bush ever lie and what was it about? Monica?

By royal king on September 5, 2007 1:49 AM

After all, I certainly understand how hard it is to spin Olbermann's words in the required negative direction.

Posted by: Mike at September 5, 2007 12:16 AM

Written like a true olbypologist. Lock step, 1234, lock step, 1234, march on loons!

By cee on September 5, 2007 6:27 AM

"Mr. Bush, our presence in Iraq must end.

[...]

"Even if it means a Democratic Congress -- and those true Patriots among the Republicans -- standing up and denying you another **penny** for Iraq, other than for the safety and the safe conduct home of our troops."

###
He, he, he.....the drama queen has lost it. The stupidity of such a conclusion based on the abundant evidence of the weak political will of the left's ruling class is amazing! If the democrats who are leading Congress could not muster the will to hold funding when there was LESS military success 6 months ago, how could anyone believe total withdrawl is even an option for these weak and pathetic politicians now?

A reality check to the leftists here at OW.....trying to contrive conspiracy theories regardng the decisions of President Bush is not going to produce an alternative national foreign policy. The anti-war protests are going to be just as small, the calls for resignation and impeachment are going to be just as isolated to the fringe radicals and the legislature is going to appropriate every "penny" the executive requests rven after this new fangled and very contrived "smoking gun."

Keith Olbermann is becoming more and more absurd. He is projecting the weakness and pathetically selfish political calculations of his ideology's ruling class onto George Bush.

And this very defensive quote from the middle of the silliness supports my theory of Olbermann's (and the radical left's) psychological pathology:

"Tonight, again sweating figuratively in The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death...The President saved, for them, the most egregious 'playing' in the entire trip.

"'I want to tell you this about the decision, about my decision about troop levels. Those decisions will be based on a calm assessment by our military commanders on the conditions on the ground -- not a nervous reaction by Washington politicians to poll results in the media.'

"One must compliment Mr. Bush's writer. That, perhaps, was the mostly perfectly crafted phrase of his Presidency.

"For depraved indifference to Democracy, for the craven projection of political motives onto those trying to save lives and save a nation, for a dismissal of the value of the polls and the importance of the media... for a summary of all he does not hold dear about this nation or its people -- nothing... could top that."

###
Olbermann even identifies his own psychological problem....using the term "projection."

Bush's actions are democratic....he was re-elected in 2004 based on the same exact data from Iraq, the same policy on Iraq and Bush has the same, serious responsibility to conduct American foreign policy as charged by The US Constitution. It does not ask him to do this by polling, by holding focus groups or by worrying about his personal popularity. US security is conducted by basing decisions on the concensus of his chosen and Congressionally approved/funded diplomatic and military advisors....And guess what their assessment will be?....

not what the polititcally driven left wants to hear.

I have a mental exercise for those interested in seeing how ridiculous all of this "Special Comment" tripe was......Imagine Olbermann on the TV but now dubbed....the language is now arabic....Imagine you are a radical islamist terrorist listening to this "theory" about George Bush (the man who personifies "American imperialism"). You hear Olbermann's (really the kooky American left's) theory about Bush's actions for the past 12 months regarding the policy in Iraq with regards to the American political reality (2006 Congressional election results and the upcoming Presidential elections in 2008).

What are your conclusions with regards to your goals as a theocrat, your dreams for Iraq and the entire Middle East (this includes Israel, folks), after hearing this theory about Bush?

I know my answer.

By Katy Turic on September 5, 2007 7:21 AM

Olby's a stark raving loon
Howard Beale or just a buffoon?
Insanity pending
TV career ending
Absurd rants are his moonbat tune

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 8:18 AM

Keith says that Bush has divided the country....
I only wish...

Move all the libs/leftys to california and new york city.
Keep all your money for the troops. Send you all your sons. We'll fight this war on terror alone.

And you can just sit on your asses minding your carbon footprints without any profiling of arabs, passively waiting for the next attack to come! And when that attack happens- you'll come crawling back to us.

We are the people who have realized that Radical Islam will not go away unless we confront it. Just ask Germany today if there is any terrorism in the world.

Next Tuesday will mark 6 years without a terrorist attack on our soil! Bravo Bush~!

By sixstringbassplayer on September 5, 2007 10:01 AM

The unemployed, Cheeto munching basement dwellers at the DUmp and elsewhere on the lefty blogosphere regard DoucheBag as Ed Murrow. The free thinkers and normal people regard DoucheBag more like Alfred E Neumann. That said, DoucheBag sounds remarkably more like an Al Queda propoganda spokesman than a so called "journalist" Without question, and the debate is now over, DoucheBag is Al Zawaharis spokesman in America.

This treasonous bastard needs to be removed from the airwaves ASAP , tried, convicted and summarily dealt with as a traitor.
Each daily summary should also include a listing of this comedy show's sponsors so that we might let them know that they are sponsoring an hour of hatred and we intend to boycott their products/services until such time that they cease sponsoring this network.

And rumor has it Olbermann reads this site daily,,,so F**k You Keith.

By ouch on September 5, 2007 10:05 AM

The two (possibly muslim) men caught acting suspicious on the ferry in Seatle still haven't shown up. Meanwhile the left still rants about racial profiling. Wonder where these law abiding two men went? It probably would help their cause if they turned themselves in rather than finally being found by authorities. OJs white bronco run didn't mean he was guilty. And neither does the fact that these two guys have made a run for the border! Shame on you LA Times and all you apologists!

By Tim on September 5, 2007 10:31 AM

if I were KO, I would be rooting for a Republican to take office again in '08. Let's says Hillary wins, what will Olbermutt be talking about than on his show. He could criticize some of Hillary's moves....o no wait, that's not allowed on Olbyplanet, no matter what the Dems. do, it is great and no matter what the Republicans do, it's always evil. So gee wiz Keith, what will you be talking about on your show if Hillary is elected? Maybe a special comment on Viagra?

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 10:39 AM

Next Tuesday will mark 6 years without a terrorist attack on our soil! Bravo Bush~!

Posted by: at September 5, 2007 8:18 AM

Wrong. That happy day will not come until October 15th of this year - the sixth anniversary of the right-wing anthrax attacks on Democratic members of congress and moderate figures in the media. Another set of terror-perps never seriously pursued by this administration.

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 10:40 AM

I expect the echo chamber about Bush to resonate deep into 2009. If a dem wins, any missteps in the following 2 years will be blamed on this administration.

Did you know, its Bush's fault that Hillary has been caught twice in the past week accepting laundered campaign money.

By Rico on September 5, 2007 10:51 AM

SLOB,

One more hop and a skip and you will be a genuine 911 truther.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 10:54 AM

Bush is Osama's bitch. He withdrew our forces and bases from Saudi Arabia per Osama's demand, and then attacked Al Qeada's greatest rival in the Middle East - the "Secular Socialist" Saddam.

Al Qeada has left us alone here in the bourgeois pillow-fort of America because of this abject capitulation, and because our forces in Iraq are performing invaluable public relations work for Osama - he and his recruiters have never had it so good.

By Bullshit meter set to high in here on September 5, 2007 10:55 AM

This is the kind of crap spewed by idiots here that just slays me, slays me, here the left talk about the right as bumbling idiiots on one side, and yet, they also believe 911 was an inside job, and the right attacked with anthrax

You olbyloons slay me, what a stupid thing to say

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 10:56 AM

SLOB,

One more hop and a skip and you will be a genuine 911 truther.

Posted by: Rico at September 5, 2007 10:51 AM

What; you consider recognition that the Anthrax attacks actually occurred - killing five ancilary non-targets - to be a conspiacy theory? You really are deluded.

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 10:57 AM

The loons expect everyone to believe that Hillary didn't know the money was tainted. "And once she did find out- she returned it!"

You see, people always give large campaign contributions anonymously because they NEVER expect anything in return.

That is WHY you are LOONS. You believe EVERYTHING the left says! Wake up idiots!

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 11:00 AM

Will Olby breathe a word about the Islamic terrorist plot that was foiled by German and U.S. law enforcers? Hmm...let me think...I don't know...yeah, but only if he calls the terrorists buffoons or clowns...or slanders federal agents, as Olby hates them. Yeah, that's Olby's MO for this type of coverage. Hes consistent if not truthful.

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 11:00 AM

"Brad Pitt has people lunge at him."

Best line of the recap! Thanks ESchatz!

By Pete on September 5, 2007 11:00 AM

SLOB- Don't forget the two african americans driving around DC with a rifle in a converted sedan. They were terrorists and attacked on this soil. And Bush did nothing to stop them...

By Rico on September 5, 2007 11:02 AM

SLOB,

Don't be such a dingbat. Weren't the Twin Towers "non-targets," too?

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 11:04 AM

Daschel and Fiengold's offices were attacked, as was Tom Brokaw and a Florida tabloid - as the Patriot Act was hitting the Senate floor. The strains were genetically linked, and traced to strains retained by the US military. Nobody was caught, and now you guys pretend it didn't happen.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 11:07 AM

SLOB,

Don't be such a dingbat. Weren't the Twin Towers "non-targets," too?

Posted by: Rico at September 5, 2007 11:02 AM

No. They were clearly the targets of the highjackers - or do you think that both highjacked planes just happened to hit both towers by coincidence?

You people are fucking retarded.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 11:10 AM

SLOB- Don't forget the two african americans driving around DC with a rifle in a converted sedan. They were terrorists and attacked on this soil. And Bush did nothing to stop them...

Posted by: Pete at September 5, 2007 11:00 AM

You're right! -at least about the time since the last terrorist attack. Reset your countdown-clocks again, folks.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 11:31 AM

Iraqi deaths in August were roughly 200 higher than in July; July's body-count was roughly 500 higher than June. All of these months reflect much greater numbers of deaths than in the summer months of previous years of the occupation. American deaths are also increasing as we move on toward the magical "return of General Petraeus".

The surge is not doing what the Bushies claim it was designed to do; and these numbers prove that their rosey analyses of this 12th-hour strategy are disingenuous at best.

And now we know that Bush is "playing" to October, with the lone objective of prolonging the occupation. My sons are 14 and 16, and I'll be damned if I'll let Bush and his war-profiteering croneys feast on their remains in some God-forsaken desert; but they are going to try.

You drowning rats need to sacrifice yourselves and your children to these vultures first - sign up and relieve the troops. Make honest war-mongering fascist out of your pathetic selves.

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 11:51 AM

Oh, and the Islamist bomb plot against U.S. interests and citizens is suspected of being an al Qaeda plot, says Roger Cressey on MSNBC right now! Experts believe that the cell members arrested for allegedly planning the bombings were the very same Uzbeks responsible for guarding bin Laden. Hmmmm....Olby will definitely call them buffoons and idiots. I mean, what a bunch of comedians! They're a hoot, you know, killing infidels and all.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 11:55 AM

"Surrounded by cheering troops, President Bush touched down for six hours in the western province to offer his personal thanks, and to tell them: "If we don't want to hear the terrorists' footsteps back home, we have to keep them on their heels over here, and that's exactly what you are doing.""

So which is it? America is altruistically sacrificing to bring peace, democracy, and stabilty to the Iraqi people; or America has turned Iraq into killing-ground that attracts murdering terrorists to Iraq to insulate our "Homeland's" fat and stupid populace safe from attacks?

Bush cannot logically have it both ways, and the Iraqis recognize the contradition. Why would they want to step up and help us in such a duplicitous undertaking? We need to leave now.

By royal king on September 5, 2007 11:57 AM

11:51, all of the usual spolbyloons will be right here defending OBL and his cohorts, as well. Slob, clucker/philby/rudy/jennifer, mike, etc...."They didn't attack us here!" bla bla bla.

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 12:02 PM

You are correct, Royal. I was just about to inquire to the whereabouts of the Olbyloons, because they appear to have scattered like cockroaches since the news broke that al Qaeda terrorist attacks were exposed and prevented. The loons will eventually regroup when they have their stories straight. The lies that the loons will spew ought to be doozies.

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 12:10 PM

Tumbleweeds blowing in Olbyloonland. Coyotes howl. Not a loon in sight.

By benson on September 5, 2007 12:14 PM

The DailyKOs crowd is throwing mud against the wall right now to see what spin works best to minimize the reports. Stay tuned. Video at 8.

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 12:20 PM

benso,

Why minimize the reports, son? It's failure from one side to the other. What successes have YOU heard about?...

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 12:21 PM

"Hooray" the drowning rats crow from their hidy-holes, as news reaches them that somewhere in the world another clutch of radicals may have been planning to blow-up Americans. We are fighting them in Iraq - and the German police are fighting them in Germany - so that we don't have to fight them here!

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 12:24 PM

The drowning rats are optimistic. Their fetish/president's wars are apparently creating enemies for them to fear all over the world. More straws for them to graps at as the ship-of-state founders

By benson on September 5, 2007 12:33 PM

ratboy- the reports about the terrorists being caught in Germany- keep up old man, the thread is not too fast today.

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 12:35 PM

benso,

Be more clear, son. The GAO report as well as Petraus' report are news as well. The capture of terrorists merely confirms that terrorism is a law-enforcement issue, not a military one, child...

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 12:38 PM

The capture of terrorists merely confirms that terrorism is a law-enforcement issue, not a military one, child...

Posted by: blindrat at September 5, 2007 12:35 PM

Amen.

By benson on September 5, 2007 12:41 PM

be more clear? read the thread ratman. Not my job to babysit your ignorance...child.

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 12:46 PM

>>be more clear? read the thread ratman. Not my job to babysit your ignorance...child.

Ignorance? You have finally made me laugh, son. After supporting the worst president in U.S. history, you have managed to produce much irony, boy...

By the way, what IS your opinion of how the surge is working? Or has Rush not given you your opinion yet?

By Mike on September 5, 2007 12:48 PM

Benson, there were terrorists operating against the US miliary in Germany when I served over there in 1972. It was a VERY big deal and security was high. They were called the "Badder Meinhoff Gang".

Look em up!

By benson on September 5, 2007 12:49 PM

Ratman-
Realize how dumb you look now? Can't follow a thread?
So you change the topic... sorry buddy, the topic is terrorism. Your Bush sucks - war is bad rant is tired.

How was your vacation? Or did you choose to disappear last week after your hero Olberman was panned for his big network debut?

By benson on September 5, 2007 12:51 PM

Mikey- there are now reports that these 3 were tied DIRECTLY to Osama and crew. Same guys you are referring to?

By cee on September 5, 2007 12:54 PM

"that terrorism is a law-enforcement issue"

Oh my, Sir Loin of Milquetoast and blindrat....I thought you were for the military incursion into Afghanistan?

The terrorist plot disruption today by law enforcement is interesting because the Germans are debating their continued involvement in fighting the Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan.

It seems to be vey well supported, right now....

Oh yeah, a terrorist attack on American targets in Germany that I am sure would strike fear into the German people would not be the reason Al Queda was supporting the plot?

For trying to show yourselves as so informed, your total lack of nuance regarding terrorist tactics is funny, gents.

Oh, and Sir Loin of Milquetoast was just lecturing the drowning rats about the real reason armed conflict is occurring in the region.....that nasty ol' MIC.....

Well, Al Queda's behavior seems to suggest there is something more to the warfare. Perhaps a country's resources would be a victory for these totalitarian ideologues?

But again, terrorism is just a law enforcement problem.....I am sure Israel's experience with the silly thing supports that assessment....

oy.

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 1:01 PM

As I thought, benso, Rush hasn't told you what to think yet. Good luck, child...

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 1:04 PM

cee,

Here's a tip, son. If you want to refute something, go to the trouble of refuting it. You said nothing that indicated terrorism is NOT a law enforcement issue...

As for Israel, they turned it into a military problem and STILL have terrorism after decades...

By Slimshipman on September 5, 2007 1:04 PM

Oh Keith, so very sure of yourself. What can you take from a Host who gets all of his show material from three websites, simply regurgitating their spin on his TV Show? Thinkprogress, Media Matters and Raw Story, all three financed by George Soros.

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 1:05 PM

Omigod- did we invade Iran?
Thanks for the update clucker.

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 1:08 PM

blindrat-
it was a enforcement issue with Clinton
Two world trade centers got hit...

"Oh yeah... i forgot"

By Mike on September 5, 2007 1:14 PM

Benson:

"Mikey- there now reports these three were tied DIRECTLY to Osama and crew. Same guys you were referring to?"

And that surprises WHO Benson? It doesn't make you wonder anew why your vaunted leader chose to drop the ball on Osama and decided to go after Iraq? It doesn't help you understand that our focus has been all wrong?

You seem to be a relatively nice guy Benson, and your posts are usually respectful, but damn....you are SO clueless and lacking in perspective!

By cee on September 5, 2007 1:15 PM

blindrat...

you implied terrorism is ONLY a law enforcement problem....

you and the rest of the left is wrong about that.....

it is an ideological problem that may need to be confronted with any of a host of tools....

like invading Afghanistan and Iraq and securing democracies that will not allow its support.

Germany is a target of radical islamic terrorism because they support freedom and democracy in Afghanistan.....

it is ideological....

why is this idea so difficult for you to understand?

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 1:20 PM

"...like invading Afghanistan and Iraq and securing democracies that will not allow its support."

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.....(wheeze)...HA HA HA!

"Securing"? The apparent head of "Al Qeada in Iraq" is Iraq's fucking puppet government's Minister of Defense!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ...

Enlist, you chicken-shit christianist.

By benson on September 5, 2007 1:20 PM

Mikey- twice in two days you take shots at me. Not your style, having a bad week now that school is back in session?

I agree with your week old post that radical Islam has been an issue for centuries, but the US has only dealt with it in the last ten years... and up to 6 years ago, we turned a blind eye to it. Year after year these whackos attacked our embassies and we need next to nothing. Not anymore.

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 1:20 PM

>>why is this idea so difficult for you to understand?

Because the so-called "war on terror" is happening in a nation where terror wasn't...allowing the terrorists to send as many or as few as they desire...

And, if you think that the mess that we created is ever going to lead to democracy, you haven't been paying much attention...

By cee on September 5, 2007 1:21 PM

"As for Israel, they turned it into a military problem and STILL have terrorism after decades..."

###
And that is the dumbest thing I think you have posted......

Radical islamists want no Jews living in Palestine.....period. They use terrorism to obtain this goal....to try to scare those nasty, smelly Jews and their supporters.....

Like me, the fundy flat-earther.....

You, on the otherhand, choose to blame Israel for the tactics used against them?

Oh yeah, just like European Jewry was resoponisble for their treatment at the hands of the fascists and communists.

And I need to remind everyone about the left's historical anti-Semitism?

The beat goes on, and on, and on.....

By benson on September 5, 2007 1:22 PM

addendum: Mike, Did you FULLY support the war in Afghanistan? Just curious

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 1:22 PM

anon 1:08,

It's been a military issue with Bush and he's already lost six thousand Americans...

I think Clinton's policy was much more effective...

By benson on September 5, 2007 1:27 PM

Sorry Mike- can't play- gotta tee time! Catch up later

By cee on September 5, 2007 1:27 PM

"Enlist, you chicken-shit christianist"

###
Good retort, Loin. It was easy showing your agreement with the naive assessment that terrorism is only an issue for law enforcement was about as well thought-out as Keith Olbermann's last Special Comment.

Ideology discussions really make you all nervous! They agitate you. I wonder why?

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 1:29 PM

Phari-cee

Quit hiding behind the Jews, you cowardly piece of shit. The only reason you christianist fuck-jobs care about Israel is because of your superstition that Jesus's spaceship is supposed to land there, and you want to be sure that there's a Holiday Inn Express available.

Enlist, and make an honest fascist out of yourself.

By cee on September 5, 2007 1:29 PM

I think Clinton's policy was much more effective...

###
I'll remember that the next time I visit ground zero, blindrat.

By The Factor on September 5, 2007 1:30 PM

I think Keith's plan now is to get people to vote for Hillary on the basis that his show will be canceled after she is elected. It is truly amusing that if Obermann gets what he wants, Hillary elected, his career is over. At least if a republican is elected he can easily go into attacking who ever that republican may be. If Hillary is elected, being her cheerleader will not last long. Especially after she keeps troops in Iraq and starts a war with Iran. Maybe Bush can sign a contract with MSDNC to have Keith yell at him for an hour every day.

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 1:31 PM

cee,

Ignorant of history as you are, son, you probably don't realize that the Israelis were blowing up school buses before it became fashionable for the Palestinians.

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 1:33 PM

cee is funny...

He blames the first WTC attack on Clinton as well as the second...

Bush had eight months to stop the attack. He chose to do absolutely nothing about terrorism...except give it a lower priority...

By The Factor on September 5, 2007 1:35 PM

Bloomberg News
The Venezuelan economy, under the direction of President Hugo Chávez, is starting to unravel in the currency market.

While Venezuela earns record proceeds from oil exports, consumers face shortages of meat, flour and cooking oil. Annual inflation has risen to 16 percent, the highest in Latin America, as Chávez tripled government spending in four years.

Exxon Mobil and ConocoPhillips are pulling out after Chávez demanded that they cede control of joint venture projects.

The bolivar has tumbled 30 percent this year to 4,850 per dollar on the black market, the only place it trades freely because of government controls on foreign exchange. That compares with the official rate of 2,150 per dollar set in 2005. Chávez may have to devalue the bolivar to reduce the gap and increase oil proceeds, which make up half the government's revenue.

"This has been the worst-managed oil boom in Venezuela's history," said Ricardo Hausmann, a former government planning minister who now teaches economics at Harvard University. "A devaluation is a foregone conclusion. The only question is when."

Today in Marketplace by Bloomberg

HSBC to buy controlling stake in Korea Exchange Bank

Storebrand buys Handelsbanken's pensions unit

Orascom forms joint venture with Korek Telecom in Iraq

JPMorgan Chase and Merrill Lynch expect Chávez to devalue the bolivar 14 percent in the first quarter of 2008 after he introduces a new currency Jan. 1 that will lop three zeros off all denominations.

The new currency, to be called the strong bolivar, will have an exchange rate of 2.15 per dollar, the equivalent of the current rate, Finance Minister Rodrigo Cabezas said last week. Analysts forecast that the official rate will decline 13 percent by the end of 2008, according to a Bloomberg survey.

"We're not going to devalue, no matter how much they pressure us," Cabezas said last week. "The so-called parallel market doesn't dictate our fiscal, exchange or monetary policies."

Chávez, an ally of President Fidel Castro of Cuba, weakened the currency 11 percent in 2005. Chávez imposed restrictions on foreign exchange in 2003 to halt the capital flight that has driven down the bolivar more than 70 percent since he took office in 1999.

A devaluation would give the government more bolivars from its oil export tax receipts, helping fund Chávez's policies to provide free health care, housing and discounted food to millions of Venezuelans. The government says social programs helped cut the poverty rate to 34 percent in the first half of 2006 from 49 percent eight years earlier.

Oil, which has risen 155 percent in the past five years, accounts for about 90 percent of Venezuela's exports.

As the gap between the official exchange rate and the black market rate has increased, so has the incentive to exploit rules, like a regulation that allows people to spend $5,000 a year on their credit cards while traveling abroad.

Some Venezuelans travel to nearby Curaçao, where they buy $5,000 of casino poker chips with their credit cards, exchange the chips for cash and then sell the dollars on the black market back in Caracas.

"People are invoking their right to circumvent what are very, very stiff controls," said Alberto Ramos, senior Latin America economist at Goldman Sachs Group in New York.

The foreign exchange regulations are part of the controls that Chávez has created in his "march to socialism." The government sets retail prices on hundreds of consumer products and fixes both the maximum rate at which banks can lend and the minimum interest they can pay depositors.

Chávez, who is seeking to end presidential term limits, has taken $17 billion of foreign reserves from the central bank and expropriated dozens of farms that he deemed underutilized.

He nationalized Venezuela's biggest private electric and telephone utilities and took majority stakes in oil projects owned by Exxon and ConocoPhillips. Foreign direct investment was a negative $881 million in the first half as foreign companies pulled out money.

Chávez terminated the broadcast license of the country's most-watched television network in May, sparking weeks of student protests. He has threatened to take over cement makers, hospitals, banks, supermarkets and butcher shops, saying they were not obeying price controls.

"It's like our director of marketing, our director of sales, our director of manufacturing is President Chávez," said Edgar Contreras, who runs international operations at Molinos Nacionales, a Caracas-based food manufacturer that employs 1,500 people. "We can't go on like this."

Contreras called the government-set prices on many products "fantasy prices" that are below production costs. Milk, chicken, coffee and flour have disappeared from store shelves in Caracas at times this year.

When can will we adopt a system like this?

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 1:35 PM

Clinton must have been a very potent president, for him to effect everything that happens deep into Bush's administration. Similarly, Petraeus must be an extrememely powerful General for the success of the entire occupation to hinge on his cameo appearance in Washington. Similarly, Corporal Grainer must have been a very powerful jailor, to have made such an international splash with his persnal perversions on the Abu Graib night shift,...

Zero accountibility for your fetish/president - that is your only belief system, Phari-cee. You are thusly hiding as well behind your tongue-in-cheek assumpton of the title "flat-earth fundie". You don;t believe anything.

By cee on September 5, 2007 1:36 PM

"Enlist, and make an honest fascist out of yourself."

###
Two times in 10 minutes....good pace....

No Loin, I support Israel because they are a free democracy, respect human rights and should be allowed to exist in peace and security.

Eschatology has nothing to do with my support for Israel and is another stawman the left likes to erect to try to create a wedge between Jews and Christians.

Keep up the usual talking points, Loin....you are doing your dead end ideology proud.....

anti-religious....
dehumanizing.....I'll stop repeating myself....

You can simply re-read my post from yesterday....it must have stung.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 1:39 PM

When can will we adopt a system like this?

Posted by: The Factor at September 5, 2007 1:35 PM

What; and give up living entirely on astronomical credit from China and Saudi Arabia? Are you crazy?

Viva Chavez!!

By Mike on September 5, 2007 1:40 PM

Blinrat, we've already estasbished that Cee understands revisionist history well. He has shown that in spades with his convenient Vietnam and Cambodia revisionisms, untrue as they are. People like me were there, and he wasn't, but that makes no difference to him. He's believes what he chooses to believe and there is nothing you can do about it.

By royal king on September 5, 2007 1:42 PM

Corporal Grainer must have been a very powerful jailor, to have made such an international splash with his persnal perversions on the Abu Graib night shift,...

slob

3 out of 4 "not guilty's" in case you haven't heard, slob. Mean anything to you?

By cee on September 5, 2007 1:42 PM

"Ignorant of history as you are, son, you probably don't realize that the Israelis were blowing up school buses before it became fashionable for the Palestinians."

###
Those damn smelly Jews deserve everything they get, uh blindrat?

Just like those wealthy WASPS and Jews in the WTC on 9/11, uh blindrat?

Yeah, radical islamic totalitarianism is just a reaction to the injustice in the world....

a revolution!

Just like socialism, German nationalism, Japanese imperialism....they were all created on purpose.....

by those nasty monotheists!

TO MAKE MONEY!

Damn fundy flat-earthers and smelly Jews!

By royal king on September 5, 2007 1:47 PM

Enlist, and make an honest fascist out of yourself.

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 5, 2007 1:29 PM

Isn't slob a classy fellow? All the while, the olbyloons defend him.

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 1:48 PM

cee,

Your sarcasm shows that you have no real response, son...

Now, stick your head back into the sand...

By cee on September 5, 2007 1:49 PM

Mike,

I do not have to be alive and there to understand the results of a immoral ideology.

Revisionism has occurred, but not by me. I am not a published historian. I simply rely on primary sources to come to conclusions regarding the world-views, like your's, that have been influential for the last 50 years.

The resultant demicide in South Vietnam is historical fact and a result of what occurred as the pendulum swung left during the 50's, '60's and '70's.

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 1:49 PM

rk,

Okay, then tell me, WHY did we create and protect Israel, son...?

By cee on September 5, 2007 1:53 PM

No, blindrat, my sarcasm is because I know where you are going with your leftist, anti-Semitic tact....and I have to be humorous in order to deal with your prejudice.

Jackie Mason is my role model with this tact.....and Joe Lieberman's demeanor is also to be respected in reaction to the radical left's poison.

Oh, and I must not forget my favorite, Mark Levin.

By The Factor on September 5, 2007 1:54 PM

Viva Chavez!!

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 5, 2007 1:39 PM

Move today SLOB. Don't let the door hit you where the good science split you. I am sure you Mom would love to reclaim her basement.

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 1:55 PM

cee,

Ah...

I don't like terrorist acts and you call me an "antisemite"...

Pathetic, son...

By Mike on September 5, 2007 1:58 PM

Jeff: "Isn't slob a classy fellow? All the while, the olbyloons defend him."

Well Jeff, the choice is usually between defending him or someone like you, and that's not much of a choice.

Another thing that goes COMPLETELY over your head is that while I personally don't agree with many things SLOB has said, .... unlike you, however, he does arrive at his conclusions by using LOGICAL reasoning, aided by a sound understanding of historical perspective, and that should command respect evey time.

All YOU ever do however, is parrot known ideological right wing media synchophants and taunt.

By cee on September 5, 2007 2:04 PM

No blindrat, I think you don't like when the victims of terrorism are not Jews or their supporters.....the non-Jew terrorists have "reasons," they were a result of "bad policy."

The day after 9/11, the radical left started this junk and I knew it was the same old template.....Israel bad.....they are the reason for all of these problems.

Yes, it is anti-Semitic....

And Loin's typical leftist reaction confirms it.....I, as a follower of Christ, only support Israel because of eschatology.

Am I surprised!

By Mike on September 5, 2007 2:10 PM

Cee: "I do not have to be alive and there to understand the results of a immoral ideology."

Maybe Cee, but because you didn't live it, you completely misunderstand the feeling of those times. You completely lack perpective on the utter lack of military and civilian moral at that time, primarily caused by years of unnecessary war and poor leadership. We are repeating that mistake.

No amount of words or pictures will ever fill in a gap like that. That is the reason it would not hurt you to listen to others who have actually lived it for a change.

For instance, I can tell you 500 times that you are absolutely WRONG in your belief that massive disrespect, such as spitting on troops was common at that time, but you steadfastly choose to believe what you read from your ideologically biased sources instead.

By Mike on September 5, 2007 2:10 PM

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 2:12 PM

cee is just another neocon who can only survive a debate by claiming to know what the other person is thinking. Mystical...

Hey cee! Was it okay with you when the Israelis bombed the King David Hotel, son? When they killed Americans aboard the USS Liberty, did your terrorist-loving family dance the Hora?

You know nothing, son...

By Mike on September 5, 2007 2:15 PM

I don't have a clue why that last post posted 3 times.

By cee on September 5, 2007 2:27 PM

Poor blindrat, please show me where I ever endorced terrorism as a viable method of political change. I have not. Just like any movement for freedom, including our own in the 18th century, there are radicals, misguided and prone to crime...and they should be treated as such.....

You seem to excuse the islamic terrorists in regard to 9/11 because Begin and his thugs committed the King David terrorist attack, etc....I do not.

I do believe that The Jewish nation does represent a free and open democracy that has enemies supportive of totalitarianism....pretty plain as day.

So do not try to move me into a corner in defending radical zionists, like Begin....I won't....there were many more moderate zionists that had it right....The Jews should have been allowed to return to their homeland and exist as a nation after such destruction against their brothers and sisters in secular (and leftist) Europe!

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 2:35 PM

cee,

Please show me where I excused Islamic terrorists.

The nation of Israel represents democracy for Jews, not the other people living there. Not only have they attacked us militarily, but they have been caught spying on us...

Kind of like the Pakistanis: Selling nuclear secrets to terrorists and harboring Bin Laden...and YET Bush is their bestest buddy. Neocons have no interest in fighting terrorism; in fact, they use the fear of it to get elected...at least they did...

Doesn't work well now...

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 2:44 PM

ANTISEMITE rat!

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 2:49 PM

BR-
You are off a whole administration.
"No interest in fighting terrorism" is Clinton's mantra.

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 2:54 PM

anon,

Thanks for providing no details...

By News You Can Use on September 5, 2007 2:58 PM

Just a break in the action...

Norman HSU is on the run... he did not appear in court today. Nah, Hillary is TOTALLY on the up and up. Her big donor is on the lam refusing to answer questions but she is clean.

Now you can go back to exposing blindrat for the antisemite that he is.

By Feesa Court Justice on September 5, 2007 3:04 PM

WHAT ARE THE CHANCES?

Rumor is that Karl Rove is going to publicly challenge Olby to debate him anywhere, anytime, including Keef's own broadcast. What are the chances of Olby accepting?

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 3:07 PM

It would show what a coward he is!
Accept it or be exposed as the sniveling loser he is!

Rove on Countdown would be the ONLY way he beats O'Reilley in the ratings - ever.

By Mike on September 5, 2007 3:07 PM

I'd rather Rove challenge Bill Maher!

By 20 20 Hindsight on September 5, 2007 3:08 PM

Maher is more likely to accept, Olbermann is 10% pussy and Mike just proved it . HA!

By *Zizwheel on September 5, 2007 3:09 PM

* LOL typo 100% PUSSY

By Mike on September 5, 2007 3:09 PM

Actually 3:07, Countdown did beat The Factor in the demo just last Thursday night.

By blindrat on September 5, 2007 3:10 PM

And the source for this rumor is...?

By Mike has managed to show alliegence to one turd bigger than he on September 5, 2007 3:10 PM

Bill Maher, bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahaha

By Mike's Hero on September 5, 2007 3:11 PM

Bill Maher-
The guy that showed up last week with chicken wing sauce all over his face? true story!

http://www.wwtdd.com/post.phtml?pk=2786

By Mike on September 5, 2007 3:12 PM

Love all the diversions!

By The Demo on September 5, 2007 3:15 PM

Actually 3:07, Countdown did beat The Factor in the demo just last Thursday night.

Look at you, you sexy beast, you Olbyloons throw my name around with love and lust in your eyes, like I am Pam Anderson

You sexysexysexy man mike, I proclaim my man love for all things Mike here

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 3:21 PM

Demo with Oreilley on vacation?
Is that you grasping at straws over there?

By Danilio on September 5, 2007 3:31 PM

))))))))))))))))))))))

And who is killing them you f*cking fool? George Bush?

No it is the same people who'd love LOVE to cut your nuts off and stuff them down your throat. F*cking idiot.

Thanks for contributing to the deaths of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians. You are far more responsible than GWB will EVER be.

By The Factor on September 5, 2007 3:31 PM

List of Democrats that fugitive Norman Hsu following his conviction on investor swindling charges.

10/5/2004 Marina Paw 500 Tom Gallagher
10/5/2004 Danny Lee 500 Tom Gallagher
11/1/2004 Danny Lee 500 DNC
11/1/2004 Norman Hsu 2000 Doris Matsui
5/10/2004 Norman Hsu 2000 DNC
7/21/2004 Norman Hsu 2000 John Kerry
7/27/2004 Nelson Paw 500 John Kerry
7/27/2004 Dimple Paw 250 John Kerry
7/27/2004 Alice Paw 250 John Kerry
7/27/2004 Alice Paw 250 John Kerry
7/28/2004 Winkle Paw 1000 John Kerry
7/19/2004 Marina Paw 350 John Kerry
9/30/2004 Norman Hsu 2000 Barbara Boxer
9/30/2004 Norman Hsu 500 Barbara Boxer
9/30/2004 Norman Hsu 12000 DSCC
9/27/2004 Peter Tan 3000 DNC
9/27/2004 Danny Lee 1250 DNC
9/27/2004 Danny Lee 1000 DNC
11/2/2005 Paul Su 2000 Claire McCaskill
11/2/2005 Danny Lee 2100 Claire McCaskill
11/2/2005 Danny Lee 400 Claire McCaskill
11/4/2005 Norman Hsu 7500 Ed Rendell
11/8/2005 Norman Hsu 10000 Bill Richardson
12/7/2005 Winkle Paw 300 Nicholas Lampson
12/7/2005 Paul Su 250 Nicholas Lampson
12/7/2005 Danny Lee 2100 Nicholas Lampson
12/7/2005 Danny Lee 650 Nicholas Lampson
12/8/2005 Winkle Paw 3300 Fiona MMa
12/8/2005 Yu Fen Huang 2100 Harold Ford
12/8/2005 Winkle Paw 1000 Harold Ford
12/8/2005 Paul Su 1000 Harold Ford
12/8/2005 Marina Paw 1000 Harold Ford
12/8/2005 Danny Lee 1000 Harold Ford
2/13/2005 Winkle Paw 1900 Ted Kennedy
2/13/2005 Winkle Paw 2100 Ted Kennedy
2/13/2005 Marina Paw 2000 Ted Kennedy
2/13/2005 Danny Lee 1900 Ted Kennedy
2/23/2005 Paul Su 300 Doris Matsui
2/23/2005 Danny Lee 2100 Doris Matsui
2/25/2005 Winkle Paw 250 Doris Matsui
2/25/2005 Marina Paw 250 Doris Matsui
2/16/2005 Norman Hsu 1000 Steve Westly
2/17/2005 Norman Hsu 5000 Ed Rendell
3/21/2005 Paul Su 1000 Hillary Clinton
3/21/2005 Winkle Paw 500 HILLPAC
3/21/2005 Marina Paw 500 HILLPAC
3/21/2005 Danny Lee 500 HILLPAC
3/31/2005 Norman Hsu 2100 Debbie Stabenow
3/31/2005 Norman Hsu 2100 Debbie Stabenow
3/31/2005 Norman Hsu 5000 HILLPAC
3/22/2005 Paul Su 500 Ted Kennedy
3/23/2005 Yu Fen Huang 500 Maria Cantwell
3/16/2005 Marina Paw 2100 Hillary Clinton
3/16/2005 Marina Paw 1900 Hillary Clinton
3/17/2005 Winkle Paw 2100 Hillary Clinton
3/27/2005 Danny Lee 2100 Hillary Clinton
3/27/2005 Danny Lee 2100 Hillary Clinton
3/18/2005 Winkle Paw 5000 Barack Obama PAC
3/18/2005 Marina Paw 1500 Barack Obama PAC
3/18/2005 Danny Lee 2500 Barack Obama PAC
5/13/2005 Winkle Paw 2100 Debbie Stabenow
5/13/2005 Winkle Paw 2100 Debbie Stabenow
5/13/2005 Paul Su 2500 Obama PAC
5/25/2005 Norman Hsu 5000 DNC
5/26/2005 Danny Lee 1000 Harold Ford
5/17/2005 Norman Hsu 2100 Maria Cantwell
5/17/2005 Norman Hsu 2100 Maria Cantwell
6/10/2005 Paul Su 900 Hillary Clinton
6/10/2005 Marina Paw 200 Hillary Clinton
6/30/2005 Norman Hsu 5000 DNC
6/21/2005 Marina Paw 500 Debbie Stabenow
6/28/2005 Winkle Paw 500 Doris Matsui
6/28/2005 Norman Hsu 2100 Doris Matsui
6/28/2005 Marina Paw 500 Doris Matsui
7/13/2005 Norman Hsu 2100 Bob Bob Casey
7/13/2005 Norman Hsu 2100 Bob Bob Casey
7/28/2005 Winkle Paw 10000 82 Preschool for All
8/31/2005 Paul Su 1500 Debbie Stabenow
8/31/2005 Marina Paw 1600 Debbie Stabenow
8/31/2005 Marina Paw 400 Debbie Stabenow
8/23/2005 Norman Hsu 1000 EMILY's List
8/29/2005 Norman Hsu 1000 Steve Westly
9/30/2005 Winkle Paw 1000 Joe Biden
9/30/2005 Winkle Paw 750 Maria Cantwell
9/12/2005 Paul Su 2000 Harold Ford
9/22/2005 Norman Hsu 1000 Steve Westly
9/23/2005 Yu Fen Huang 1500 Maria Cantwell
9/23/2005 Paul Su 2000 Maria Cantwell
9/23/2005 Lelawattie Su 2000 Maria Cantwell
9/14/2005 Winkle Paw 250 Harold Ford
9/24/2005 Winkle Paw 1000 Frank Pallone
9/24/2005 Winkle Paw 1000 Frank Pallone
9/24/2005 Danny Lee 1000 Frank Pallone
9/24/2005 Danny Lee 1000 Frank Pallone
9/24/2005 Danny Lee 1000 Frank Pallone
9/15/2005 Paul Su 1400 Debbie Stabenow
9/15/2005 Paul Su 600 Debbie Stabenow
9/25/2005 Wilfred Hsu 1500 Hillary Clinton
9/26/2005 Winkle Paw 1600 Patrick Kennedy
9/26/2005 Winkle Paw 1400 Patrick Kennedy
9/26/2005 Marina Paw 500 Patrick Kennedy
9/26/2005 Yu Fen Huang 2000 Patrick Kennedy
1/12/2006 Danny Lee 2000 Fiona MMa
1/13/2006 Danny Lee 1000 Kirsten Gillibrand
1/28/2006 William Paw 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/28/2006 William Paw 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/28/2006 Stanley Lim 2000 Hillary Clinton
1/28/2006 Peter Tan 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/28/2006 Peter Tan 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/28/2006 Nelson Paw 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/28/2006 Nelson Paw 1100 Hillary Clinton
10/3/2006 Norman Hsu 3000 Bill Richardson
11/3/2006 Norman Hsu 10500 Harold Ford
2/10/2006 Danny Lee 2000 Dianne Feinstein
2/20/2006 Yu-Fen Huang 1000 Fiona MMa
2/21/2006 Danny Lee 250 Bob Casey
2/27/2006 Yu Fen Huang 1433 Debbie Stabenow
2/27/2006 Yu Fen Huang 1066 Debbie Stabenow
2/27/2006 Soe Lee 1433 Debbie Stabenow
2/27/2006 Soe Lee 1066 Debbie Stabenow
2/27/2006 Danny Lee 5000 HILLPAC
2/28/2006 Yu Fen Huang 2500 Obama PAC
2/28/2006 Yu Fen Huang 2500 Obama PAC
2/28/2006 Paul Su 2500 Obama PAC
2/28/2006 Soe Lee 5000 Obama PAC
3/10/2006 Winkle Paw 850 Harold Ford
3/10/2006 Marina Paw 1000 Harold Ford
3/30/2006 Paul Su 2000 Debbie Stabenow
3/30/2006 Soe Lee 3000 DSCC
3/30/2006 Norman Hsu 2500 John Destefano for Connecticut Governor
3/30/2006 Winkle Paw 250 Tyson Pratcher
3/30/2006 Paul Su 500 Tyson Pratcher
3/30/2006 Marina Paw 500 Tyson Pratcher
3/30/2006 Danny Lee 250 Tyson Pratcher
3/11/2006 Soe Lee 2000 Harold Ford
3/21/2006 Yu Fen Huang 2100 Claire McCaskill
3/21/2006 Winkle Paw 1000 Claire McCaskill
3/21/2006 Soe Lee 400 Claire McCaskill
3/21/2006 Marina Paw 2000 Claire McCaskill
3/21/2006 Soe Lee 2100 Claire McCaskille
3/21/2006 Winkle Paw 2500 DSCC
3/21/2006 Soe Lee 1000 Sheldon Whitehouse
3/31/2006 Paul Su 400 Claire McCaskill
3/31/2006 Paul Su -1966 Debbie Stabenow
3/31/2006 Yu Fen Huang 2066 Dianne Feinstein
3/31/2006 Yu Fen Huang 1433 Dianne Feinstein
3/31/2006 Winkle Paw 1000 Dianne Feinstein
3/31/2006 Soe Lee 2066 Dianne Feinstein
3/31/2006 Soe Lee 1433 Dianne Feinstein
3/31/2006 Marina Paw 1000 Dianne Feinstein
3/31/2006 Paul Su 500 EMILY's List
3/31/2006 Winkle Paw 500 Obama PAC
3/12/2006 Danny Lee 500 Bob Casey
3/13/2006 Paul Su 1000 Tammy Duckworth
3/23/2006 Marina Paw 500 Debbie Stabenow
3/14/2006 Marina Paw 2300 Hillary Clinton
3/14/2006 Marina Paw 2300 Hillary Clinton
3/14/2006 Yu Fen Huang 500 Tammy Duckworth
3/14/2006 Winkle Paw 500 Tammy Duckworth
3/16/2006 Marina Paw 700 Debbie Stabenow
3/17/2006 Winkle Paw 2000 Phil Angelides
3/28/2006 Soe Lee 5000 HILLPAC
3/28/2006 Paul Su 1000 Scott Kleeb
3/29/2006 Yu Fen Huang 2500 DSCC
3/29/2006 Paul Su 2000 DSCC
3/29/2006 Marina Paw 2500 DSCC
3/29/2006 Danny Lee 2000 DSCC
4/11/2006 Norman Hsu 11366 Ed Rendell
4/21/2006 Winkle Paw 2000 DNC
4/18/2006 Marina Paw 2500 DNC
4/18/2006 Danny Lee 2000 DNC
4/19/2006 Norman Hsu 5000 Ed Rendell
5/10/2006 Lelawattie Su 2000 Debbie Stabenow
5/21/2006 Paul Su 200 Bill Nelson
5/12/2006 Paul Su 250 Steve Filson
5/12/2006 Danny Lee 250 Steve Filson
5/22/2006 Paul Su 200 Claire McCaskill
5/22/2006 Paul Su 200 Maria Cantwell
5/25/2006 Danny Lee 1000 Robert Menendez
5/16/2006 Norman Hsu 5000 Bill Richardson
5/16/2006 Norman Hsu 5000 Bill Richardson
5/26/2006 Yu Fen Huang 500 Patrick Murphy
6/30/2006 Paul Su 5000 DSCC
6/30/2006 Soe Lee 3500 DSCC
6/30/2006 Winkle Paw 250 Kirsten Gillibrand
6/30/2006 Marina Paw 500 Kirsten Gillibrand
6/25/2006 Alice Paw 2100 Hillary Clinton
6/25/2006 Alice Paw 1900 Hillary Clinton
6/26/2006 Yu Fen Huang 400 Patrick Kennedy
7/14/2006 Danny Lee 2500 DNC
7/25/2006 Winkle Paw 1000 Phil Angelides
7/17/2006 Vivian Paw 1000 Jon Tester
7/18/2006 Yu Fen Huang 500 Bob Casey
7/18/2006 Soe Lee 2000 Bob Casey
7/18/2006 Yu Fen Huang 500 Jon Tester
7/18/2006 Soe Lee 750 Jon Tester
8/22/2006 Marina Paw 250 Jim Webb
8/23/2006 Yu Fen Huang 500 Jim Webb
8/23/2006 William Paw 500 Jim Webb
8/23/2006 Vivian Paw 500 Jim Webb
8/23/2006 Soe Lee 750 Jim Webb
8/23/2006 Soe Lee 1000 Tammy Duckworth
8/15/2006 Nelson Paw 1500 Claire McCaskill
8/15/2006 Wilfred Hsu 500 Claire McCaskill
9/20/2006 Dimple Paw 500 Jim Webb
9/30/2006 Winkle Paw -250 Tyson Pratcher
9/11/2006 Dimple Paw 500 Harold Ford
9/21/2006 Nelson Paw 500 Harold Ford
9/21/2006 Nelson Paw 500 Sheldon Whitehouse
9/21/2006 Dimple Paw 500 Sheldon Whitehouse
9/23/2006 Paul Su 250 Kirsten Gillibrand
9/23/2006 Nelson Paw 500 Kirsten Gillibrand
9/23/2006 Dimple Paw 500 Kirsten Gillibrand
9/14/2006 Paul Su 250 Jim Webb
9/14/2006 Normal Hsu 10000 New York party
9/14/2006 Norman Hsu 10000 N.Y. Working Families Party
9/18/2006 Paul Su 250 Jon Tester
9/18/2006 Nelson Paw 1000 Jon Tester
9/18/2006 Dimple Paw 1000 Jon Tester
9/18/2006 Danny Lee 250 Jon Tester
9/28/2006 Normal Hsu 10000 Tennessee party
9/19/2006 Yu Fen Huang 500 Daniel Akaka
9/19/2006 Soe Lee 500 Daniel Akaka
9/19/2006 Yu Fen Huang 2000 DSCC
9/19/2006 Paul Su 500 DSCC
9/19/2006 Danny Lee 2000 DSCC
9/19/2006 Danny Lee 250 Jim Webb
9/19/2006 Winkle Paw 250 Tammy Duckworth
9/19/2006 Marina Paw 250 Tammy Duckworth
9/29/2006 Winkle Paw 500 Claire McCaskill
9/29/2006 Dimple Paw 2000 Claire McCaskill
9/29/2006 Vivian Paw 500 Claire McCaskille
1/31/2007 Winkle Paw 10000 DSCC
1/31/2007 Norman Hsu 5000 DSCC
1/31/2007 Danny Lee 10000 DSCC
1/12/2007 Yu Fen Huang 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/12/2007 Yu Fen Huang 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/12/2007 Normal Hsu 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/12/2007 Normal Hsu 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/12/2007 Danny Lee 2300 Hillary Clinton
1/12/2007 Danny Lee 2300 Hillary Clinton
1/12/2007 Yu Fen Huang 5000 HILLPAC
1/12/2007 Winkle Paw 5000 HILLPAC
1/12/2007 Winkle Paw 5000 HILLPAC
1/12/2007 Norman Hsu 5000 HILLPAC
1/12/2007 Danny Lee 5000 HILLPAC
1/26/2007 Norman Hsu 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/26/2007 Yu Fen Huang 2300 Hillary Clinton
1/26/2007 Yu Fen Huang 1900 Hillary Clinton
1/26/2007 Paul Su 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/26/2007 Paul Su 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/26/2007 Norman Hsu 2100 Hillary Clinton
1/26/2007 Danny Lee 2300 Hillary Clinton
1/26/2007 Danny Lee 1900 Hillary Clinton
2/22/2007 Yu Fen Huang 2000 Jay Rockefeller
2/22/2007 Winkle Paw 2000 Jay Rockefeller
2/22/2007 Vivian Paw 2000 Jay Rockefeller
2/22/2007 Norman Hsu 2000 Jay Rockefeller
2/22/2007 Marina Paw 2000 Jay Rockefeller
2/22/2007 Danny Lee 2000 Jay Rockefeller
2/22/2007 Norman Hsu 2300 Mary Landrieu
2/22/2007 Norman Hsu 700 Mary Landrieu
2/22/2007 Paul Su 200 Mary Landrieu
2/22/2007 Paul Su 2300 Mary Landrieu
2/23/2007 Danny Lee 2300 Mary Landrieu
2/23/2007 Danny Lee 2300 Mary Landrieu
2/23/2007 Yu Fen Huang 2300 Mary Landrieu
2/14/2007 Soe Lee 1000 Kirsten Gillibrand
2/14/2007 Norman Hsu 2300 Kirsten Gillibrand
2/14/2007 Norman Hsu 2300 Kirsten Gillibrand
2/14/2007 Danny Lee 2000 Kirsten Gillibrand
2/26/2007 Yu Fen Huang 2300 Mary Landrieu
2/28/2007 Winkle Paw 2300 Jack Reed
2/28/2007 Winkle Paw 2300 Jack Reed
2/28/2007 Paul Su 2300 Jack Reed
2/28/2007 Paul Su 200 Jack Reed
2/28/2007 Norman Hsu 2300 Jack Reed
2/28/2007 Norman Hsu 200 Jack Reed
3/30/2007 Norman Hsu 2300 Al Franken
3/31/2007 Norman Hsu 2000 David Loebsack
3/31/2007 Paul Su 10000 DCCC
3/31/2007 Danny Lee 5000 DCCC
3/31/2007 Winkle Paw 5000 DSCC
3/12/2007 Yu Fen Huang 2300 Tom Harkin
3/12/2007 Yu Fen Huang 2300 Tom Harkin
3/12/2007 Winkle Paw 2300 Tom Harkin
3/12/2007 Winkle Paw 2300 Tom Harkin
3/12/2007 William Paw 2300 Tom Harkin
3/12/2007 William Paw 2300 Tom Harkin
3/12/2007 Soe Lee 2300 Tom Harkin
3/12/2007 Soe Lee 2300 Tom Harkin
3/12/2007 Norman Hsu 2300 Tom Harkin
3/12/2007 Norman Hsu 2300 Tom Harkin
3/12/2007 Danny Lee 2300 Tom Harkin
3/12/2007 Danny Lee 2300 Tom Harkin
3/22/2007 Norman Hsu 1000 Frank Lautenberg
3/14/2007 Stanley Lim 2300 Hillary Clinton
3/14/2007 Soe Lee 4600 Hillary Clinton
3/14/2007 Danny Lee 400 Hillary Clinton
3/14/2007 Yu Fen Huang 400 Hillary Clinton
3/14/2007 Winkle Paw 2300 Hillary Clinton
3/14/2007 Winkle Paw 2300 Hillary Clinton
3/15/2007 Norman Hsu 2500 EMILY's List
3/15/2007 Norman Hsu 1000 Thomas Allen
3/27/2007 Norman Hsu 2500 DSCC
3/27/2007 Paul Su 500 Patrick Kennedy
3/27/2007 Danny Lee 500 Patrick Kennedy
3/18/2007 Paul Su 2300 Tom Harkin
3/18/2007 Paul Su 2300 Tom Harkin
3/28/2007 Paul Su 5000 Tom Allen
3/28/2007 Danny Lee 500 Tom Allen
3/29/2007 Vivian Paw 2300 Hillary Clinton
3/29/2007 Vivian Paw 2300 Hillary Clinton
4/10/2007 Normal Hsu 1000 Joe Sestak
4/10/2007 Norman Hsu 2000 Joe Sestak
4/30/2007 Soe Lee -4600 Hillary Clinton
4/12/2007 Paul Su 1000 Joe Sestak
4/27/2007 Winkle Paw 500 Joe Sestak
4/27/2007 Danny Lee 250 Joe Sestak
4/28/2007 Winkle Paw 2500 Ted Kennedy PAC
4/28/2007 Vivian Paw 2500 Ted Kennedy PAC
4/28/2007 Norman Hsu 5000 Ted Kennedy PAC
4/28/2007 Marina Paw 2500 Ted Kennedy PAC
5/23/2007 Paul Su 1000 Mark Pryor
5/17/2007 Paul Su 1000 Jay Rockefeller
5/17/2007 Norman Hsu 2000 Harry Reid PAC
5/18/2007 Paul Su 1000 Patrick Murphy
5/18/2007 Danny Lee 250 Patrick Murphy
6/30/2007 Wilfred Hsu 2300 Hillary Clinton
6/30/2007 Wilfred Hsu 2300 Hillary Clinton
6/14/2007 Vivian Paw 2300 Tom Harkin
6/14/2007 Vivian Paw 2300 Tom Harkin
6/14/2007 Marina Paw 2300 Tom Harkin
6/14/2007 Marina Paw 2300 Tom Harkin
6/25/2007 Norman Hsu 1000 Mark Udall
6/25/2007 Norman Hsu 1000 Mike Honda
6/25/2007 William Paw 1000 Mike Honda
6/25/2007 Vivian Paw 1000 Mike Honda
6/18/2007 Yu Fen Huang 500 Tom Allen
6/28/2007 Winkle Paw 1000 Patrick Kennedy
6/28/2007 Norman Hsu 1000 Patrick Kennedy
6/29/2007 Winkle Paw 500 Democrats 2000
6/29/2007 Norman Hsu 5000 Democrats 2000
7/8/2004 Winkle Paw 1000 John Kerry
8/6/2004 Norman Hsu 2000 John Kerry
2/2/2005 Norman Hsu 2000 Barbara Boxer PAC
2/3/2005 Norman Hsu 5000 Barack Obama PAC
2/4/2005 Norman Hsu 2000 Doris Matsui
2/4/2005 Norman Hsu 2000 Doris Matsui
5/7/2005 Winkle Paw 2000 Ed Rendell
5/7/2005 Norman Hsu 5000 Ed Rendell
6/6/2005 Norman Hsu 2100 Harold Ford
6/6/2005 Norman Hsu 2100 Harold Ford
6/6/2005 Norman Hsu 1000 Steve Westly
6/7/2005 Winkle Paw 500 Patrick Kennedy
6/7/2005 Norman Hsu 2100 Patrick Kennedy
6/7/2005 Norman Hsu 2100 Patrick Kennedy
6/7/2005 Marina Paw 300 Patrick Kennedy
6/7/2005 Danny Lee 2100 Patrick Kennedy
6/7/2005 Danny Lee 2100 Patrick Kennedy
6/9/2005 Winkle Paw 5000 DSCC
6/9/2005 Paul Su 4000 DSCC
6/9/2005 Norman Hsu 26700 DSCC
6/9/2005 Danny Lee 5000 DSCC
8/5/2005 Norman Hsu 3300 Fiona MMa
9/2/2005 Wilfred Hsu 500 Dianne Feinstein
3/2/2006 Paul Su 1400 Dianne Feinstein
3/2/2006 Paul Su 1100 Dianne Feinstein
3/7/2006 Yu Fen Huang 1000 John Carter
3/7/2006 Danny Lee 1000 Scott Kleeb
3/9/2006 Paul Su 500 Bob Casey
3/9/2006 Danny Lee 5000 Phil Angelides
6/2/2006 Winkle Paw 2500 Phil Angelides
6/2/2006 Winkle Paw 2500 Phil Angelides
6/5/2006 Yu Fen Huang -566 Maria Cantwell
6/8/2006 Yu Fen Huang 500 Claire McCaskill
6/8/2006 Winkle Paw 500 Claire McCaskill
6/8/2006 Vivian Paw 1000 Claire McCaskill
6/8/2006 Soe Lee 500 Claire McCaskill
6/8/2006 Marina Paw 400 Claire McCaskill
6/8/2006 Danny Lee 500 Claire McCaskill
7/1/2006 Norman Hsu 1000 Dianne Feinstein
7/7/2006 Norman Hsu 2000 Ed Rendell
7/7/2006 Yu-Fen Huang 2500 Phil Angelides
7/7/2006 Soe Win Lee 2500 Phil Angelides
7/7/2006 Dimple Paw 500 Phil Angelides
7/7/2006 Danny Lee 1000 Phil Angelides
8/7/2006 Normal Hsu 10000 Tennessee party
9/9/2006 Nelson Paw 500 Jim Webb
2/2/2007 Paul Su 3500 DSCC
2/2/2007 Paul Su 200 Hillary Clinton
2/2/2007 Paul Su 200 Hillary Clinton
2/2/2007 Soe Lee 2300 Hillary Clinton
2/2/2007 Soe Lee 2300 Hillary Clinton
2/2/2007 Norman Hsu 200 Hillary Clinton
2/2/2007 Norman Hsu 200 Hillary Clinton
2/9/2007 Winkle Paw 5000 DNC
5/2/2007 Yu Fen Huang 2500 Ted Kennedy PAC
5/2/2007 Soe Lee 2500 Ted Kennedy PAC
5/2/2007 Danny Lee 2500 Ted Kennedy PAC
5/3/2007 Lelawattie Su 2300 Hillary Clinton
5/3/2007 Lelawattie Su 2300 Hillary Clinton
5/3/2007 Alice Paw 2300 Hillary Clinton
5/3/2007 Alice Paw 2300 Hillary Clinton
5/3/2007 Norman Hsu 2300 Mark Pryor
5/3/2007 Norman Hsu 200 Mark Pryor
5/3/2007 Paul Su 500 Tom Vilsack
5/3/2007 Paul Su 500 Tom Vilsack
5/3/2007 Norman Hsu 2300 Tom Vilsack
5/4/2007 Winkle Paw 200 Mark Pryor
5/4/2007 Winkle Paw 2300 Mark Pryor
5/4/2007 Danny Lee 2300 Mark Pryor
5/4/2007 Danny Lee 200 Mark Pryor
6/6/2007 Winkle Paw 2300 Kirsten Gillibrand
6/6/2007 Vivian Paw 2300 Kirsten Gillibrand
6/6/2007 Paul Su 1000 Kirsten Gillibrand
6/6/2007 Marina Paw 2300 Kirsten Gillibrand
6/6/2007 Yu Fen Huang 2300 Kirsten Gillibrand
6/8/2007 Winkle Paw 700 Jay Rockefeller
6/8/2007 Norman Hsu 1700 Jay Rockefeller
6/8/2007 Norman Hsu 300 Jay Rockefeller
6/8/2007 Vivian Paw 2300 Mark Pryor
6/8/2007 Vivian Paw 200 Mark Pryor
10/11/2004 Danny Lee 1000 DNC
10/12/2004 Norman Hsu 5000 Florida Party
10/12/2006 Paul Su 1000 DNC
10/13/2004 Danny Lee 1500 DSCC
10/13/2006 Yu Fen Huang 1000 Bob Casey
10/13/2006 Paul Su 2000 Bob Casey
10/13/2006 Norman Hsu 15000 Change America
10/13/2006 Soe Lee 2000 Pennsylvania party
10/14/2006 Winkle Paw 1000 Hillary Clinton
10/14/2006 Danny Lee 1000 Hillary Clinton
10/14/2006 Winkle Paw 1000 Hillary Clinton
10/14/2006 Danny Lee 1000 Hillary Clinton
10/15/2005 William Paw 1000 Hillary Clinton
10/15/2005 Vivian Paw 2100 Hillary Clinton
10/15/2005 Vivian Paw 2100 Hillary Clinton
10/15/2005 Stanley Lim 500 Hillary Clinton
10/15/2005 Nelson Paw 1000 Hillary Clinton
10/15/2005 Wilfred Hsu 2100 Hillary Clinton
10/15/2005 Wilfred Hsu 2100 Hillary Clinton
10/15/2005 Yu Fen Huang 2100 Hillary Clinton
10/15/2005 Yu Fen Huang 2100 Hillary Clinton
10/16/2006 Winkle Paw 1000 DNC
10/16/2006 Paul Su 2000 DNC
10/17/2004 Wilfred Hsu 500 Tom Gallagher
10/19/2004 Norman Hsu 2000 Barack Obama
10/22/2004 Norman Hsu 10000 Wisconsin party
10/24/2005 Winkle Paw 200 Ted Kennedy
10/24/2005 Paul Su 1600 Ted Kennedy
10/24/2005 Marina Paw 900 Ted Kennedy
10/24/2005 Danny Lee 200 Ted Kennedy
10/24/2005 Paul Su 600 Ted Kennedy
10/25/2004 Danny Lee 1000 DSCC
10/25/2004 Norman Hsu 2000 Ted Kennedy
10/25/2004 Norman Hsu 2000 Ted Kennedy
10/25/2004 Danny Lee 1500 Ted Kennedy
10/25/2005 Winkle Paw 2500 DSCC
10/25/2005 Marina Paw 1000 DSCC
10/25/2006 William Paw 500 Harold Ford
10/25/2006 Vivian Paw 500 Harold Ford
10/25/2006 Stanley Lim 500 Harold Ford
10/25/2006 Stanley Lim 2100 Hillary Clinton
10/30/2006 Norman Hsu 500 Tim Cahill (Mass. Treas.)
10/30/2006 Danny Lee 500 Tim Cahill (Mass. Treas.)
10/31/2006 William Paw 500 Sherrod Brown
10/31/2006 Stanley Lim 500 Sherrod Brown
10/31/2006 Vivian Paw 500 Sherrod Brown
10/31/2006 Yu Fen Huang 500 Tammy Duckworth
10/31/2006 William Paw 500 Tammy Duckworth
10/31/2006 Vivian Paw 500 Tammy Duckworth
10/31/2006 Paul Su 500 Tammy Duckworth
10/31/2006 Stanley Lim 500 Tammy Duckworth
11/17/2006 Winkle Paw 2500 Joe Biden PAC
11/17/2006 Yu Fen Huang 5000 Joe Biden PAC
11/17/2006 Paul Su 5000 Joe Biden PAC
11/23/2005 Winkle Paw 3000 Jerry Brown
11/27/2006 Stanley Lim -400 Hillary Clinton
11/28/2005 Winkle Paw 1100 Joe Biden
11/28/2005 Winkle Paw 900 Joe Biden
11/28/2005 Paul Su 1500 Joe Biden
11/29/2005 Wilfred Hsu 1000 Joe Biden
12/13/2005 Danny Lee 600 Ted Kennedy
12/13/2005 Winkle Paw 1000 Nicholas Lampson
12/14/2005 Soe Lee 2100 Hillary Clinton
12/14/2005 Soe Lee 750 Hillary Clinton
12/14/2005 Lelawattie Su 2100 Hillary Clinton
12/14/2005 Lelawattie Su 2100 Hillary Clinton
12/14/2005 Soe Lee 1400 Hillary Clinton
12/15/2005 Norman Hsu 2000 Ed Rendell
12/16/2005 Paul Su 1000 Bill Nelson
12/16/2005 Danny Lee 2100 Bill Nelson
12/16/2005 Danny Lee 400 Bill Nelson
12/16/2005 Norman Hsu 2100 Bill Nelson
12/16/2005 Norman Hsu 500 Bill Nelson
12/19/2005 Paul Su 666 Debbie Stabenow
12/19/2005 Soe Lee 666 Debbie Stabenow
12/19/2005 Yu Fen Huang 666 Debbie Stabenow
12/19/2005 Yu Fen Huang 666 Dianne Feinstein
12/19/2005 Paul Su 666 Dianne Feinstein
12/19/2005 Soe Lee 666 Dianne Feinstein
12/19/2005 Yu Fen Huang 900 Harold Ford
12/19/2005 Winkle Paw 1000 Maria Cantwell
12/23/2004 Winkle Paw 2000 Hillary Clinton
12/23/2004 Winkle Paw 2000 Hillary Clinton
12/23/2004 Norman Hsu 2000 Hillary Clinton
12/23/2004 Norman Hsu 2000 Hillary Clinton
12/23/2005 Danny Lee 900 Doris Matsui
12/30/2005 Yu Fen Huang 666 Maria Cantwell
12/30/2005 Paul Su 1000 Maria Cantwell
12/30/2005 Paul Su 566 Maria Cantwell
12/30/2005 Soe Lee 666 Maria Cantwell
WSJ
Truely the most ethical party.

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 3:41 PM

The MSM has ignored the Hsu story as if Vince Foster's life depended on it.

Hillary is going to be the nest president , and the next person( after her hubby) to be responsible for the demise of this country. By 2016 the USA will be unrecognizable. We'll be lucky if we resemble France.

By The Factor on September 5, 2007 3:49 PM

Still a fugitive.

REDWOOD CITY, Calif. (AP) - Disgraced Democratic fundraiser Norman Hsu was a wanted man again after he failed to show up for a court date Wednesday and a judge issued a new warrant for his arrest.
Hsu, whose criminal past has roiled the campaigns of top presidential candidates, was scheduled to ask a judge to cut in half the $2 million bail he posted last week when he turned himself in after spending 15 years on the lam from a felony theft conviction.

Instead, San Mateo Superior Court Judge Robert Foiles ordered Hsu's bail forfeited to the county and issued a new arrest warrant. If Hsu is arrested again, he will be jailed without bail this time.

Hsu, a Hong Kong native, was also supposed to turn over his passport Wednesday. Hsu's prominent Silicon Valley criminal defense attorney Jim Brosnahan said Hsu failed to give the passport to the legal team on Monday.

"Mr. Hsu is not here and we do not know where Mr. Hsu is," Brosnahan said outside court. Brosnahan said that "there was some contact" with Hsu a few hours before the scheduled 9 a.m. court appearance, but he declined to say how and who talked to Hsu.

Hsu pleaded no contest in 1991 to a felony count of grand theft, admitting he'd defrauded investors of $1 million after falsely claiming to have contracts to purchase and sell Latex gloves. He was facing up to three years in prison when he skipped town before his 1992 sentencing date.

Prosecutors said they suspected Hsu fled the country then. But a few years ago, Hsu re-emerged in New York as an apparel executive and a wealthy benefactor of Democratic causes and candidates. They included presidential contenders Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton, whose campaign designated Hsu a "HillRaiser"—a title given to top donors.

Brosnahan said he didn't know if Hsu returned to his Manhattan condominium or stayed in California after his five-hour jail stint Friday when Hsu turned himself in. He was released from jail after posting $2 million bail, which a judge refused then to reduce to $1 million.

Prosecutors with the California Attorney General's office had agreed to the bail reduction because it would be used to reimburse the victims Hsu admitted swindling out of $1 million in the early 1990s.

"We did think that was enough," Deputy Attorney General Ralph Sivilla said outside court. Sivilla also said he was troubled that Hsu didn't turn in his passport.

Federal Election Commission records show Hsu donated $260,000 to Democratic Party groups and federal candidates since 2004. Though a top fundraiser for Clinton, he also donated to Obama's Senate campaign in 2004 and to his political action committee. He also contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars to state and municipal candidates.

After reports surfaced of his fugitive status, politicians at all levels scrambled to distance themselves. On Wednesday, Rhode Island Rep. Patrick Kennedy, who initially said he would keep the $6,200 from Hsu, announced that he would give the money to charity.

Kennedy had originally counted $6,600 in donations, but a review of federal campaign records showed it was actually $6,200.

Obama's campaign said it would give to charity the $2,000 Hsu contributed to his 2004 Senate campaign and the $5,000 Hsu gave to his political action committee, Hopefund.

Hsu's $43,700 in donations to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee and $2,500 to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee also will go to charity, both groups said.

Clinton joined the other candidates, returning $23,000 in contributions that Hsu made to her presidential and senatorial campaigns and to her political action committee, HillPac. But his close association with her campaign put Clinton on the defensive.

Last week, Hsu said he thought the criminal charges had been taken care of when he completed his bankruptcy proceedings in the early 1990s.

"I have not sought to evade any of my obligations and certainly not the law," Hsu said in a prepared statement.

___

By The Factor on September 5, 2007 3:57 PM

Rumor is that Karl Rove is going to publicly challenge Olby to debate him anywhere, anytime, including Keef's own broadcast. What are the chances of Olby accepting?

Posted by: Feesa Court Justice at September 5, 2007 3:04 PM

Slim and None. Unless Karl writes a book bashing George Bush and can learn to knod his head and say "That's right Keith".

By Mike on September 5, 2007 4:15 PM

"Hillary is going to be the next president, and the next person( after her hubby) to be responsible for the demise of this country.".....And who's fault will that be? It's not like the GOP didn't have 8 years of virtually unchallenged rule and totally screwed it up, is it?

"By 2016 the USA will be unrecognizable.".....I'm not sure I recognize it now.

"We'll be lucky if we resemble France.".....Yes, lucky indeed!

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 4:16 PM

And who is killing them you f*cking fool? George Bush?

No it is the same people who'd love LOVE to cut your nuts off and stuff them down your throat. F*cking idiot.

Thanks for contributing to the deaths of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians. You are far more responsible than GWB will EVER be.

Posted by: Danilio at September 5, 2007 3:31 PM

Danilio forgets many things; that Iraqis had clean water, and electricity, and a death rate a tiny fraction of the current one prior to our invasion; that the "Surge" was supposed to actually lower the rate of violence and death in Iraq - if you were stupid enough to believe what your fetish/president says; that we were going to be welcomed as "liberators" six years ago....

Irresponsible, petulent children should not be permitted use of our armed forces.

By Danilio on September 5, 2007 4:40 PM

Ahh yes, life in Iraq was just grand prior to 2003, was it not? I'm certain it was tops on your list of vacation hot spots.

Oh and Bush is hardly my ideal President. Go Obama! At least he'll take on Pakistan, while you and your ilk are hiding out in your tornado shelters.

By The Factor on September 5, 2007 4:45 PM

Danilio forgets many things; that Iraqis had clean water, and electricity, and a death rate a tiny fraction of the current one
Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 5, 2007 4:16 PM

Another brilliant statement by Sir Loin of Boof
I am sure Germany and Japan both had clean water, electricty, and a low death rate under their dictators also Jimmy Carter.
I am not quite sure about Sadam's death rate. I don't think we have found all the mass graves he filled yet but your right Sir Loin, Iraq was a gum drop paridise before we invaded. HA!! Revisionist history indeed.

By The Joker on September 5, 2007 4:53 PM

If Hillary becomes President, she will be made president for Life with the help of the Media.

America in 2016 will look like this.
The West Coast will be under Chinese control.
Alaska will be Russian.
Israel will be nuked and a 2nd Holocaust will result.
The Caliphate will be in the process of invading Euope.
The South, RKY Mtn. States, South West and Plain states will be a Free Judeo-Christian Capitalistic Republic.
The NothEast and Upper Midwest will be a Stalinist-Islamic Republic with Hillary as president fro Life and Some Mullah as here VP!

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 5:00 PM

Average American Patriot ,
The Jews were there before the Mulsims.
here's some history.
The Jews were in Israel until 70 AD when the Romans threw them out.
Then in 638 AD the Muslims threw out the Romans.
Then in 1948 The Jews threw out the Muslims.
It's historical justice!

By Mike, the french Turd on September 5, 2007 5:12 PM

"We'll be lucky if we resemble France.".....Yes, lucky indeed!

In addition to being a Turd, You are now forever the quintessential Liberal weenie for that statement

By *Ive already considered that on September 5, 2007 5:45 PM

Sir Loin nevers misses an opportunity to degrade the American Military. Fuck him and the liberal horse he rode in on.

By 20 20 Hindsight on September 5, 2007 5:46 PM

oh yeah, slob is riddled with guilt and disimformation. He is a loser, just like Olbermann.

By Clear Thinking on September 5, 2007 5:47 PM

Dear God ALmighty, NO MORE CLINTONS!

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 6:07 PM

We'll be lucky if we resemble France.".....Yes, lucky indeed!

'''''

Hee hee you're so clever... bet you've just applied for your European visa haven' you? Yeah ,didn't think so.

You've got it good here in America and you wouldn't leave if Allah himself came back and told you you should.

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 6:33 PM

""Who was in possession of the "promised land" before the Jews arrived?""

Are you freaking kidding? Read read read your own damn history books, and don't listen to your HS teacher anymore . They are doing your feeble mind a disservice.

You're an athiest. what do you care about religious history books. Jesus and "Allah " are fictioanl material in your teeny mind. Just keep voting(D) and eventually your great great granddems will get your heart's desire .

By Fascist Pigs Watch on September 5, 2007 6:53 PM

"Read read read your own damn history books, and don't listen to your HS teacher anymore "

Posted by: Some Anonymous ReichWinger

Read YOUR OWN history books and don't listen to your teacher?

Spoken like a true Fascist.

I suppose in school you read your own science books, your own math books, and your own sociology books, and ignored the teacher right??!

Typical ReichWinger, when the truth doesn't agree with you, make up your own.

Brilliant!

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 7:09 PM

France and the EU have become more attractive. More civil rights, affordable health care, a significantly higher GNP than the US. However, I'm staying in the US. Things will be improving by the end of January 2009.

{{{{{{

Of course you're staying! Regardless of who gets elected you leftist fools haven't got the balls to leave.

You ,BabsStreisand and Alec Baldwin suck off the government teat in one way or anotner.

My guess is the GWB admin. hasn't affected your life one way or the other , but are you man anough to admit that or will you fess up to the ways you've been wronged?

No, you'll probably just call names.

Oh and as far as GNP read a little current economic news. You are WRONG!

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 7:22 PM

I am not quite sure about Sadam's death rate. I don't think we have found all the mass graves he filled yet but your right Sir Loin, Iraq was a gum drop paridise before we invaded. HA!! Revisionist history indeed.

Posted by: The Factor at September 5, 2007 4:45 PM

Yes, I am aware that there is a lot that you are "not quite sure about" (i.e. completely fucking ignorant) There are records of this nature kept, however:

"The death rate before the invasion was a fairly normal 5.5 per thousand people per year. Since March 2003, that figure has averaged 13.2, the researchers found. More worrying, the death rate has risen every year since the invasion: this year reaching 19.8 per thousand people per year, a near-fourfold increase over pre-invasion levels."

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10276.html

And by all accounts, the mass graves stopped being filled in 1992, following the massacre of Shia and Kurds who had risen against Saddam at GHW Bush's urging, only being left to pound sand without the promised US support.

Overwhelming public opinion in Iraq now clearly says that of course Saddam was a horrible bastard; but at least one could follow the oppressive rules and have a good expectation of survival for oneself and family until the next day. There was work and water and food.

Not in George W. Bush's Iraq, however.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 5, 2007 7:26 PM

Sir Loin nevers misses an opportunity to degrade the American Military. Fuck him and the liberal horse he rode in on.

Posted by: *Ive already considered that at September 5, 2007 5:45 PM

Kiss my ass, fascist chickenhawk. The US military is one of Bush's most abused victims and betrayed scapegoats. You stupid rightie fuckers simply can't pay attention to anything you're told not to hear.

By royal king on September 5, 2007 7:30 PM

Actually 3:07, Countdown did beat The Factor in the demo just last Thursday night.

Posted by: Mike at September 5, 2007 3:09 PM

This coming from the exact same person that has said countless times, "ratings don't matter," when his hero was dead last. To f'n funny.

By The Joker on September 5, 2007 8:23 PM

The Radical left will defend Muslims no matter what.
How pathetic!

By Butthead on September 5, 2007 8:34 PM

Olbs was trying his best to not bust out in laughter during this one, he doesn't really believe what he says, he wants attention and he gets it, the guy is a joke

By puck on September 5, 2007 8:39 PM

Pres. Bush has been to Iraq 3 times.

Shawn Hannity has been there.

Bill O'Reilly

Katie is there now!

Heck! Some female DJ from a Boston Rock station was there for a week.

Countless others.

Keith?

I think he drove by an Air Force Base on his way to Legends Field during spring training.

Oh wait!

He doesn't drive.

Never mind.

Must have been some damm Republican Taxi Driver.

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 8:40 PM

It isn;t even a matter of defending Muslims.it is a matter of defeatign the POTUS at any cost.

Its far beyond any reason or rhyme, and evne the most radical left winger knows this deep in his/her dark heart.

If GWB fails in Iraq then they have something to brag about , along with how much acid they dropped at the 1995 Dead Concert.

By Anonymous on September 5, 2007 9:11 PM

You can count by tens weeee,...

By royal king on September 5, 2007 9:41 PM

LSD has ceased to be, in it's original form, decades earlier.Dead shows were pretty tepid affairs during that time period.
Plus, since Jerry died in August of 95', there were a limited number of shows.

Posted by: Why don't you think at September 5, 2007 9:30 PM

An acid expert, makes sense, now. Multiple personalities, incoherent babbling and all that comes with it......

By cee on September 5, 2007 10:04 PM

Wonderful!

Mental midget wanna be (AAP) provides his bona fides as a card carrying anti-Semite too!

Wonderful! So glad to see OW attract such distinguished Mensa members like Loin, blindrat and wanna be....leftists true to their origins....keeping the dream of genocide based on creed alive and well!

Along with state sanctioned death based on economic theory (you know that other big word you have trouble with, wanna be (AAP).....demicide....the left's happy land saved just for those dirty asians in South Vietnam!) I include Mike in that goal as well.

So wanna be, should Israel simply turn over the territories to these "Canaanites and Philistines" you are so worried about? Who are they anyway?....Do their driver's licenses identify them as such along with their eye and hair color?

When did I ever say "chosen people" wanna be? Please let me know.

Once again your assumptions about my beliefs, like Sir Loin of Milquetoast's pathetic ploy with eschatology earlier this afternoon, make you look like the site's jester, wanna be. (Your projection of your insecurities onto rk is really starting to show!)

moo.

The fundamentalist religious left loves to try to throw "fundamentalism" around as their excuse to be bigoted (nice, uh?).

Hey wanna be, you're wrong....It is actually very simple and I'lll explain it to you.....slowly now....Israel is a nation where it is geographically just like every other nation in this world....

beeecauuuusee people fought and died for it......And overpowered those who thought they had claim to it.

Simple, isn't it? Groups of people fighting other groups of people for places. In palastine, those nasty smelly Jews you hate so much won.....those who fought and got it before them lost it to them.

Just like the left's envied democracies on the European continent.....(I don't hear you complaining about them or the indigenous populations that were displaced so the great centers of the enlightenment and renaissance could be established)....

Just like thousands of places in Africa...people displacing others based on all sorts of nice labels....religion, economic philosophy, skin color, etc. etc. etc. Are you worried about them, wanna be?

Just like the democracies in the Western hemisphere.....(ditto.....where do you live wanna be (AAP)?....perhaps it is on a former native American nation.....have you done a title search? Come now, are you on "occupied territory?" Be a good fundamentalist secular humanist and give it back, now!)

Why is Israel singled out for your worries regarding who laid claim to the parcel of dirt first, wanna be.....what makes them so special?

No wanna be.....your religious bigotry and fundamentalist ideology (as is Loin's and blindrat's) is too easy to point out and make fun of.......I'll leave you alone now.

By Harry Pelosi on September 5, 2007 10:46 PM

Quite a lively Republican Debate on Fox News tonight. Leaps and bounds more real and interesting than any previous from either party.

By No naive American on September 6, 2007 12:40 AM

This administration has to stay in Iraq forever to protect the billion dollar embassy Halliburton has built with our tax dollars, as well as to have a military base to protect our Middle East allies in the region.
Whatever W says or promises to the American people regarding troop withdrawal will not happen.
And the bipartisan Congress, is too politically involved to confront him or reject his plans.
We can argue all we want, but nothing will change.
And killings will continue, onto the next administration...

By royal king on September 6, 2007 2:13 AM

patsy, we know what a classless, pathetic loser you are. You don't have to keep telling us. Now, get back down on your dirty little piece of carpet, where you belong.

By cee on September 6, 2007 6:50 AM

A two fer! Mental Midget (Why) !AND! Mental Midget Wanna Be (AAP) both post wonderful and intellegent repartee....oh the joy!

Nice wanna be...once again your learning center teacher will want to cover more reading comprehension skills with you. My post did not question the history of conflict over the plot....I simply and correctly pointed out your special problem with those dirty Jews lving in Palestine. Oh, and by the way, millions of Jews "recognize" the lordship of Christ....I am one of them....

Some of them live in Israel....and they get to vote too! Wow....a democracy.....but one that does not fit your religious left theology, uh wanna?

Those Jews with different superstitions (your word), live wonderfully beside many other different fundamentalists, including bigots like you, wanna! And guess what, they get to vote too!

But again, the goal of radical islamic terrorists is to drive all of these fundamentalists, including people like you wanna, into the Mediterranean Sea. Coexistance on their terms alone, the radical islamist terrorists strive to intimidate democracies to turn and run....surrender....including in Iraq, to further this goal.....and the special problem can then be dealt with.....

Oh yeah....the special problem of the Jews.....sound familiar wanna?....Your problem with them seems to be the same as the terrorists now and back in the 20th century....in civilized and leftist Europe....wow what irony.

Oh, and wanna, Christ walks everywhere...He lives. Omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. Your errors continue.

Lastlt, you never answered my simple question.....

"Why is Israel singled out for your worries regarding who laid claim to the parcel of dirt first, wanna be.....what makes them so special?"

Same question goes to every other religious leftistn (Loin, blindrat, why), who likes to ignore the behavior of the radical islamic terrorists but get their panties twisted over W, those fundy flat-earthers and Israel.

Crawl back under the rock, wanna.....you too, why.....Loin and blindrat need to talk.
If and when you all want to be serious about these subjects and you drop the hatred, I'll stop being sarcastic.

Moo.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 6, 2007 8:09 AM

Sorry, Phari-cee, but I just can't get "serious" about Jesus with a bloodthirst chickenhawk.

Nobody but your fetish/president Bush "ignores the behavior of the radical islamic terrorists". That's why Osama is kicking back in his FATA villa, and why the US is aout to "sell" all kinds of sweet weaponry to the fucking Saudis!

Remember the Saudis, Phari-cee? Osama is one; Osama's fabulously wealthy family - which has dined and invested with the Bushes for decades - are likewise; 14 of 19 9/11 highjackers (who Bush calls "kids lured onto airplanes") were also Saudi;

...about 30% of America's record foreign debt, incurred by Bush, is also of that nationality.

Your christianist fetish/president LOVES the fucking islamist terrorists, Phari-cee. He does whatever Osama requires - like removing all of our forces from his holy penninsula and destroying his "secular socialist" dictator enemy in Iraq, and makes Osama look smart, brave, and blessed to the disenfranchised demographics in the Islamic world.

My country is not run by islamist terrorists, Phari-cee; and the threat they pose to us from without is dwarfed by the fascist cancer represented by the neocon terrorist junta you have made your golden calf.

...oh yeah - you should enlist, you snivveling coward, and make an honest fascist of yourself.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 6, 2007 8:26 AM

How many times on Leno last night did Fred Thompon mention his "little red truck"? Some reporter should ask him what make and year it is; what milage it gets; some general engine specs;... He would be caught flat-footed, or issue wild-ass guesses that could be checked. That "little red truck" is Thomson's "Crawford ranch" - a cynical prop to rope in the slack-jawed yokels and slack-jawed yokel wanna-bees that the Repubs depend on.

I also noticed he said "folks" about 20 times. I heard that Rove has been writing his play-book for some time; and this sure looks like a re-hash.

When Thompson starts really laying on the Jesus-talk I imagine that Phari-cee will forget he ever mooned over Bush, and will adopt a new fetish.

By cee on September 6, 2007 8:43 AM

I just can't get "serious"

###
Oh, I already knew that, Sir Loin of Milquetoast. Your oft repeated chickenhawk accusation signals that.

Your blindspot to your own ruling elite's beak dipping into that huge pool of money those dirty muslims have out there makes your conspiracy theory null and void.

Just like your hysteria regarding the MIC....there is much more to all of this than the pursuit of simple wealth.

The primary movement of the violent jihadists is their ideology and those muslims you scape goat who prize mannon over their faith are not the problem.

OBL has left the capitalists on the peninsula and decided to make his holy war. Your excuses for his behavior via the Bush dynansty is simplistic.

The ideology of genocide is obvious, but to those poisoned by their own ideology can miss it.

Just like ideology dictating your opinion about what drove the leftist ideologues in Vietnam.

Just like ideology dictating your opinion about what drove the ideologues in Germany and Japan.

My goodness, if our country's ruling class had thought like you, blindrat, wanna and MM, I am not sure what flag would be flying over The White House right now.

All I know is that when one decides to hold rich western capitalists as the sole source for all that is wrong in the world, my eyes tend to glaze over....

The broken record was heard in my high school history classes and college halls. An objective and open-minded investigation of the theory leads one to discover it is self-serving. The western capitalist powers-that -be, although frequently contributors to the ills of the world, are no more solely culpable of the terrorist's actions today as they were for Minh's, Hitler's or Stalin's murderous actions.

Ideology is the foundation, everthing else is veneer....nationalism, economics, creed, technology, race, etc.....

Again, you like to blame mammon for this conflict, Loin. Fine. I'll wait for you to be serious again.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 6, 2007 9:32 AM

"Your blindspot to your own ruling elite's beak dipping into that huge pool of money those dirty muslims have out there makes your conspiracy theory null and void."

So the ethics of christianist Pari-cee say that its hunky-dorry for the Bush cabal to be in direct league with the bin Laden family and the duplicitous Saudi royals - despite all of W's rhetoric and the American's he's sent to die "fighting terror" -because of some undefined "liberal elite" bill-dipping? I guess he's referring to the fact that for decades (i.e including CLINTON'S administration!!) we've allowed our lazy asses to become enthralled to the Arab oil-kingdoms, and allowed our energy-masters to actively fight the development of renewable domestic fuels/energy. Phari-cee is such a lazy, amoral little pud that he will embrace the treasonous industrial conflation and explicit fictive kinship ("Bandar Bush")between his fetish/president's family and the families of these Saudi kings and magnates because liberal leaders operate within a system built by oil-dealers.

"My goodness, if our country's ruling class had thought like you, blindrat, wanna and MM, I am not sure what flag would be flying over The White House right now."

Wall Street loved Mussolini and Hitler before WWII, Phari-cee. Prescott Bush was buddies and partners with Hitler's financiers and industrialist leutentants (as were, as you will no doubt interject as "nullifying" any concern regarding Nazi collaboration, Joseph Kennedy and Averell Harriman). They thought the conflation of government and private industry as promulgated by Il Duce was just what this country needed.

FDR, however - famously labeled a "traitor to his class" by these people - ensured that our inevitable involvment in the war would be on the right side.

You are a mind-slave to elitist fascist million/bilionaires, Phari-cee.

And as for your side-stepping the "Mammon" issue - when you cast away the letter and spirit of the ethicism preached by your prophet in order to cleave unailingly unto a modern war-lord, you become the basest of idolators.

"All I know is that when one decides to hold rich western capitalists as the sole source for all that is wrong in the world, my eyes tend to glaze over...."

Of course - that is clearly a symptom of a brain's thralldom to a raft of utter bullshit: painful truth pops up/Phari-cee's eyes shut down. Its a common self-defense measure implemented by a weak, deluded mind.

By cee on September 6, 2007 9:42 AM

Preach it Loin! And you claim not to be religious....you sound like the preacher on Sunday....."basest of idolators?"

You and your ilk are wrong.

The main motivation for Hitler was not the greedy silliness of Prescott Bush and The Kennedys. Hitler's ideology was required...it was the foundation. His rise to power was aided by a lot more than the funds flowing from Wall Street, Loin. Countless things occurred and countless people of all sorts of economic and political affiliations contributed to bring dear Adolf to power....none the least of which was leftist ideology....I, however, put responsibility where it belongs, like FDR did.....

On the man's hateful ideology.

You like to parce the problem...fine....make enemies and war criminals from ALL of the people who contributed to the rise of evil men.....make sure you include me and you.

Make sure you include FDR and the elite left prior and during WWI with regards to Adolf.....

You see Loin, your revulsion based on your leftist world-view leads you to all sorts of culpability.....the war crimes courts would be clogged.

Make sure you mention Bill and Hill when you talk about Saudi money....and when she is your ruling class' choise du joir for the executive, I expect you to sit on your voting hands, oh pure Sir Loin of Milquetoast!

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 6, 2007 9:46 AM

Phari-cee, your focus on "ideology" as the only force to be concerned with in the world is as magical and childish as your fluid sky-god epistomology.

Ideologies are used to motivate people by those who have the power and influence to perpetuate the desired movements. That's why Mussolini and Hitler made the cozy complicty of Industry the hallmarks of their social and military conquests. That's why during the middle ages Pope-annointed crusades had some longevity and sometimes success, while the spontaneous whackjob "children's crusades" etc. sputtered out in disaster before they left Europe. As Napoleon stated "an army travels on its stomach", not its beliefs.

Republicans motivate you rubes though the evocation of a number of often contradictory ideologies: Christianity, Free-Market Fundamentalism, lip-service to "democracy",...but its all driven by those who force-feed us oil and entertainment.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 6, 2007 9:50 AM

"Make sure you include FDR and the elite left prior and during WWI with regards to Adolf....."

I think I did, douchebag.

"Make sure you mention Bill and Hill when you talk about Saudi money...."

I think I did, douchebag.

"and when she is your ruling class' choise du joir for the executive, I expect you to sit on your voting hands, oh pure Sir Loin of Milquetoast!"

I will never sit on my voting hands you morally bankrupt fuck - and I will never vote for Hillary. Don't you have any other dodge than this?

By cee on September 6, 2007 9:55 AM

"all driven by those who force-feed us oil and entertainment"

###
So why, Loin, when these nasty motivations were removed by your pure leftist gods, the problems remained? Why did people still kill eachother? Why did disease spread? Why did people starve? Why were prisons, lawyers, courts and laws still needed?

Why did the human being continue to do "wrong" desipite what you claim would be the perfect environment for good to flourish?

Look at ideology.....or any other synonym for the concept you want to use.....

It is inherent....it is basic, it is unavoidable.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 6, 2007 10:00 AM

...and Phari-cee, if ideology is be-all and end-all, why all the concern over "state-sponsored terror"? Why bother to invent lies about Saddam's sponsorship of Al Qeada, etc.? Wouldn't pure evil ideologues dedicated to Sharia and the Qu'ran eschew contamination from such secular entities?

Your world-view makes no sense, except as an intentional smokescreen to befuddle the rubes.

By cee on September 6, 2007 10:04 AM

"What about the rest, the other Jews, that do not recognize Jesus yet demand their 'Holy Land'?"

###
What about them, wanna? Is there a specfic question you had in mind?

I was complete in addressing your strawmen as you avoided the obvious fact you have problems with Jews demanding a specific place to exist while not complaining about the rest of the human race, including yourself.

I can repeat myself again about being serious about these issues and not continue to be sarcastic....but your bigotry seems to keep you from rising above your silliness.

What a person's or group's claim is based on....(the revelations of the scriptures or "tradition" or whatever) seems to not matter in the end....it is about will and power.

But again, I know your poor reading comprehension is still an issue here....I can wait.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 6, 2007 10:13 AM

"So why, Loin, when these nasty motivations were removed by your pure leftist gods, the problems remained? Why did people still kill eachother? Why did disease spread? Why did people starve? Why were prisons, lawyers, courts and laws still needed?

Why did the human being continue to do "wrong" desipite what you claim would be the perfect environment for good to flourish?"

Holy Crap!; you are a child. Binary presence v absence/ baby-with-the-bathwater thinking! There is no "perfect environment". The liberal founders of our country, however, put a great deal of thought into devising a system which - through checks and balances/balance of co-equal branches, etc. - the venal and insane motivations could be thwarted and disipated.

Who the fuck but a pious genital-less cloud-sitter would ever want a society with lawyers, courts, prisons and laws? That's called anarchy, and it was tried throughout most of human history, leaving everyone at the mercy of anyone with more might, resources, and influence.

Now the christianist Republicans like you decry the fact that judges represent "laws derived from men", and demand a dictatorship by a christy retard.

I can't wait for the Rapture - I'm sick of you people and your amoral ideology.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 6, 2007 10:16 AM

correction:

"Who the fuck but a pious genital-less cloud-sitter would ever want a society WITHOUT lawyers, courts, prisons and laws?"

By cee on September 6, 2007 10:34 AM

"but you again resort to argue for a territorial claim based on a fairy tale."

###
Read it again, wanna...please try harder...I argue that you deride their claim but yet accept any other claim to terrirtory as ok....Again, my problem is with your bigotry, wanna....I am not arguing about what Zionists claim is their promised land.

And Loin, you are starting to get agitated and not comprehending either....I would fear anarchy....but you claimed that the cause of all wrong in the world is, how did you put it.....

"by those who force-feed us oil and entertainment."

Somewhat a binary way of looking at it all, by the way.

These people have been eliminated many times by your ideological comrades and evil continued.....

people died, starved, killed, raped, pillaged....

I only asked why, Loin....and you got agitated.

Why?

By cee on September 6, 2007 10:53 AM

"Now you've rejected territorial claims based on a fairy tale. GOOD!"

###
Oh boy....the learning center is calling, wanna....read my posts.....again.....

I never gave an opinion on the validity of the revelation in scripture regarding Israel....and I won't because it is your strawman....and one used often by anti-Semites.

As the representative of the religious left here, wanna, I want to commend you on your ability to change the subject.

I have been repeating over and over that you and Loin seem to have a special problem with Israel's claim....I only ask why and correctly point out that you do not seem to have a problem with other groups laying claim to territory based on all sorts of other sources of authority.

Boy, wanna, you are having a tough time reading today. Late night?

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 6, 2007 10:56 AM

These people have been eliminated many times by your ideological comrades and evil continued.....

people died, starved, killed, raped, pillaged....

I only asked why, Loin....and you got agitated.

Why?

Posted by: cee at September 6, 2007 10:34 AM

Eliminated and replaced by others of the same or some other form of arbitrary despotism. Once in this country impersonal corporations were treated with harsh suspicion - even Alexander Hamilton characterized them and their dnagerous potential as monsters that must be chained to the will of the people and their laws. But Now (since 1860, infact) they are our de-facto rulers, and the constitution has been labeled as a "quaint" "piece of paper".

Democracy and rule-of-law are the only hopes for stable and just (not "perfect") human society.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 6, 2007 11:05 AM

"I have been repeating over and over that you and Loin seem to have a special problem with Israel's claim"

You know you're making a splash when your opponenets begin making up opinions for you. When have I expressed an opinion regarding Israel's "claim" - and what speific "claim" would that be?

I do have a problem with their un-democratic racist policies, however.

By cee on September 6, 2007 11:49 AM

Wow...another strawman offered up by wanna....I enjoy them....I ignore them...but I do like to see the vivid imagination.

Wow...another dodge by Loin...I enjoy them too....

I refer to the anti-Semitic tag team romp from yesterday.....you and blindrat, Loin....a response from you....

"Quit hiding behind the Jews, you cowardly piece of shit. The only reason you christianist fuck-jobs care about Israel is because of your superstition that Jesus's spaceship is supposed to land there, and you want to be sure that there's a Holiday Inn Express available."

###
I responded.....said you were assuming an incorrect point in my theology, and then stated your's and blindrat's typical american radical leftist view about Israel shows your anti-Semitism....no retort...just more dodging, Loin.

And dear wanna joined in, claiming the Jews' biblical claim to Palestine is the cause of their troubles....again....anti-Semitism....

All a result of that nasty thing....ideology...

anti-religious
dehumanizing
class warfare

You both just keep showing how right I am.

Oh boy, I can't wait for the response....

Moo.

By Anonymous on September 6, 2007 11:51 AM

I'll bet the left is proud to have this AAP weirdo in their side.

By cee on September 6, 2007 12:19 PM

"I'll bet the left is proud to have this AAP weirdo in their side."

###
He seems to bought everything they have been selling for the past 300 years...so yes....I would agree they'd be proud.

Wanna is a good little left wing zealot.....he has strong faith in the theology!

By cee on September 6, 2007 4:30 PM

Aw gee, wanna (AAP)....I thought you were at Kumon getting help with your reading comprehension for the last few hours....but I see by your post at 3:44PM you still have not properly processed my very complicated posts.

Once again....slowly now.....the origin of Israel's reasoning for claiming Palestine for their own was not the subject of my posts.....The subject of my posts was your apparant problem with them doing so whilst not showing any such disagreement for similar claims (supernaturally revealed or not) all around our fair globe.

It seems you don't think those slimy Jews should have been there when Joshua and his army conquered it.....up to 1948.....Why not, wanna?

The left's problem with the Jews is obvious in your continued formation of strawmen to avoid facing your hate....I already know you are a bigot regarding religious belief, wanna....you don't need to keep displaying it.....

Unless it is part of you pathology....so I can be compassionate and say, "knock yourself out."

I know rk is not around for you to project upon.....

moo.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 6, 2007 7:06 PM

"Dodge", Phari-cee?

You've dropped two losing arguments with me on this strand just today; the matter regarding your fixation with "ideology" as the only part of humanity to worry about (10:13); and your defense of christianist anarchy (10:56). Then you drag my name into a moot argument regarding bronze-age deed-law and complain when I blow you off.

Most people, when they flee a loosing argument on the internet, tend to stop posting on at least the very same thread for a decent interval. I salute your ablities in regard to compartmentalization.

By What don't you get a clue? on September 6, 2007 7:40 PM

Partisan Hack? That's Olbermann's territory and sole purpose in being.

By Partisan Hacks are U on September 6, 2007 11:14 PM

AKA: Countdown with keith Olbermann

By cee on September 7, 2007 9:20 AM

Sir Loin of Milquetoast....2 days ago both you and blindrat fled as soon as I identified your rants against my support for Israel as thinly veiled anti-Semitic hate.....Your erroneous claim that I believe the modern nation of Israel is required for the second coming is a knee-jerk reaction from religious bigots...Claiming Christians' support for our Jewish brothers and sisters is actually a self-serving stand, you show that you have particular "issues" with the concept of the nation of Israel....and then you even confirmed it by mischaracterizing their policies as "racist."

Your well timed claims of support for American style government yesterday are quite nice. However, when you get rolling, your true ideology shows, Loin. Your reserved hatred for greedy capitalists is misplaced and dangerous....and to invoke Hamilton as a defense is laughable. People like Minh, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Hussein and OBL do not come to pass because some dote wants to become a billionaire. It is a bit more complicated. Their rise to power is because of their will, springing from their evil ideology....the dotes are simply pawns used for their rise. Sure, try to control the dotes, Loin, but I will bet you there are thousands ready to take their place.

And my critique of societies that eliminated the profit motive was in regard to your ideological brand.... socialism/communism/Marxism....evil thrived in these systems and people suffered, Loin. The free economic market is not the reason for our ills, it is the solution. The left's drive to centralized power and control is a poor choice that takes away my ability to live freely. Every aspect of my life, my education, my healthcare, my security, my leisure, my religious belief is at risk under your ideology. No thank you.

So your claim of "victory" is in error, Loin. The left in America claims respect for the US Constitution, but your ideology is 180 degrees from what it says. As little government and centralized hierarchy as possible was the philosophy....and career leaders was frowned upon. With leaders like Kennedy, who have been in office for alomst 50 years, I know that the need for power has replaced the common sense of Washington who refused to serve more than 2 terms. The left wants to have power over their lessers and it is not what this country was founded on.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 7, 2007 9:56 AM

Right, cee. All of those '94 "Gingrich Revolution" "Contract with America" Republicans who pledged to serve no more than two terms have stepped aside. Sure they have.

As for "Minh, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Hussein and OBL", are you therefore saying that Stalin lived like his Russian peasant comrades? That the Communist Party leaders in China share the hardships of the average worker? No, you can't be. These were NOT ideological movements - they were, and some remain, tyranical oligarchies that used ideology to co-opt the compliance of the masses.

Here in the US, the right wing is wielding the ideologies of "government is evil", "the rich are self-made virtuous people", "money represents free-speech", "monopoly is a civil right", among an array of befuddling religious issues, in order to facilitate the control of our government by the fortunes and media controlled by powerful corporations. Hitler's power was based on a very similar set of narratives, with militarism and nationalism masking the decietful "Free Market" mythology preferred by American fascists. His industrialists were his key to success.

"The left wants to have power over their lessers and it is not what this country was founded on."

No, it was definitely not founded on that; which is why I keep chanting "Rule of Law" over and over again.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 7, 2007 10:00 AM

"Sir Loin of Milquetoast....2 days ago both you and blindrat fled as soon as I identified your rants against my support for Israel as thinly veiled anti-Semitic hate"

You are slimy cocksucker, despite your avowed disdain for oral sex.

By Danilio on September 7, 2007 12:26 PM

So SLOB believes in the rapture? Yu';ve got to be kidding me.

And cee your rational well thought out posts make SLOB look like the blazing fool that he is.

Name calling is about the only thing that makes him unique.

Going through life as angry as he appears to be will only lead to heart failure.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 7, 2007 2:41 PM

Danilio - if it has the potential to pluck you morons from among us and leave the rest of us to our business; I'll try believing in it just for peace of mind.

"Name-calling?" Phari-cee gratuitously called me an antisemite; I called him a cocksucker. You bleeding-heart fascists are such pussies when it comes to trading insults.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 7, 2007 2:45 PM

Phari-cee,

If you are not too heart-broken over my name-calling, I am very interested in what response you can dredge up to the very cogent points made in my post of 9:56 AM, just above.

By royal king on September 7, 2007 3:15 PM

slob, you are an antisemite. The fact that cee is a "c**ksucker" is w/out merit.

By Anonymous on September 7, 2007 3:22 PM

Cee makes far more sense than your ignorant rantings and ravings ever will. It is too bad you can't accept that.

You sir are a coward. And before you cowardly play the military card, I am a46 yr old mother of two young men serving in the military.

My Husband proudly served in Afghanistan, and you sir are the epitomy of a cowardly draft dodger, but you already knew that din't you?

And as far as calling me a moron.. oh ouch that hurt... badly. Hit me with your next best shot pal.

By cee on September 7, 2007 4:22 PM

Loin, with regard to your am post....

The founders showed the right way, Loin. The faulty political ideologies that emerged after in the 19th and early 20th centuries were believed to be the next great thing by the secularists in the United States. Thank goodness for the common sense of our country that stopped the rise of Marxism in The United States.

The left continues to strive to implement the failed ideology and the reaction to it has to be equally as strong. Too much government power always leads to tyranny and replacing this greatest of failures with the irrational fear of dehumanized "corporations" will accomplish the same thing.

The fact that OBL is repeating the same conspiracy theories about Western capitalist blame should give you pause, Loin. A religious zealot using the same propaganda as the secular left....two poles (in my opinion) of the potential despotism in our world. I wish to remain free to live, worship, consume and produce without the hindranace of the fanatical secularist telling me what to do or the fanatical islamist telling me what to do.

Using such radical cohersion (terrorism or excessive government law/regulation) has the same result....less freedom.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 7, 2007 5:19 PM

Cee makes far more sense than your ignorant rantings and ravings ever will. It is too bad you can't accept that.

You sir are a coward. And before you cowardly play the military card, I am a46 yr old mother of two young men serving in the military.

My Husband proudly served in Afghanistan, and you sir are the epitomy of a cowardly draft dodger, but you already knew that din't you?

And as far as calling me a moron.. oh ouch that hurt... badly. Hit me with your next best shot pal.

Posted by: at September 7, 2007 3:22 PM

Cowardly? You are entitled to your opinion. Draft Dodger? Not possible - there is no draft, but I registered for selective service at 18 when law demanded.

Were there a draft, and the wider population were required to share the hardships of mlitary families such as yours, this war would screech to a halt in a second. While essentially everyone knows by now that this war is a pointless waste, people do not act because their comfort and asses are not on the line. Put them there and you've got a movement.

You sound pretty tough, so I won't bother with an appology for the moron thing.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 7, 2007 5:25 PM

"Too much government power always leads to tyranny and replacing this greatest of failures with the irrational fear of dehumanized "corporations" will accomplish the same thing. "

A large, complex society requires a certian amount of governance, cee. Happilly we have a constitution that permits the People to maintain control of this massive required governace - but only if the constitution is used.

Too little government and other forces must take up the slack - vigilantism/natural selection/tyranny by the powerful. This is what we have going on today - vast gaps made by the Republicans in regulation of industry and services (i.e meat inpsection; drinking water quality; government contracts; etc.) have been filled by pirates and Foxes guarding henhouses. Some people die - a smaller number get rich.

Jesus can't handle everything, Phari-cee.

By Anonymous on September 7, 2007 5:44 PM

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Listen, I have no ides of your age or gender, but my boys, who had other options after HS, chose to serve their country.

One of my children is a firm supporter of the president and the other is far more skeptical of his admin. . He isn't much of a democrat ,but he has his issues with our current Pres.

It has made for fun and sometimes intense dinnertime conversation ,the few times we've been together as a family , recently.

I guess what I wish for people like you to realize is that there are men and women serving who see the greater good in what they are doing in the ME, and aren't blind followers of government policy. They are doing the job they signed up for, regardless of who their leader is.

No apology necessary for the moron comment. This is the internet , and we don;t knew each other in any other capacity than trading barbs back and forth at this point.

You just might be charming fellow in real life. :)

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 8, 2007 12:21 AM

I have always been in awe of people I've known who have seen combat - or its potential - for their country. Many on this website continually react to my harsh criticisms of the war itself, our leaders, and their motives and judgement by accusing me of "hating our troops" - some of these report being soldiers themselves.

What I hate is the cavalier attitudes; self-serving rhetoric; and use of the troops as scapegoats, background props, and politicized time-buyers by the administration.

I obviously don't know what your sons or husband have experienced or learned during their services, but poll after poll clearly indicate that generally 75% of their fellows serving in Iraq express the recognition of futility in regard to their mission - those who even feel that they have been given a mission.

Best wishes to your family, and I hope they are not threatened by cynical neoconservative wars very much longer.

By Danilio on September 8, 2007 10:15 AM

Well I wouldn't agree with the 75% figure from my own experience of being around others in a similar position, but yes there are those that are unhappy with the war.

There are a variety of reasons though, it can't all be chalked up to "the mission is futile"

There are those that wish the war had been handled with more of an iron fist , right from the start , but political ramifications back home hindered that course of action.

There are those that are seeing progress now that the surge is taking place and believe things can and will improve.

There are those that aren't terribly patient, and have a hard time understanding why the Iraqi people don't seem to want this for themselves.

There are those who are on their third TOD and would like to come home and be with their families.

There are a mulitude of reasons for being concerned, but as the saying goes the good men and women in the military , "soldier on." And they do believe in what they are doing .

I certainly don't speak for all, but these are just a few of the conversations I have had with friends, family , and colleagues over the years.

Thank for your good wishes for my family. Even though you come off quite harsh, I actually believe you meant them.

By Sir Loin of Beef on September 8, 2007 11:53 AM

"There are a mulitude of reasons for being concerned, but as the saying goes the good men and women in the military , "soldier on." And they do believe in what they are doing . "

Amen. But beyond this it is my impression that our excellently trained and dedicated military will "soldier on" even if they DON'T personally believe in what they are doing - because such discipline is the key to our military effectiveness and the source of our troops' honor. This is the root of my concerns regarding the disdain our White House and Pentagon leadership exhibits towards the concept command responsibility, and their obligations to provide serious missions and support.

When citizens altruistically give up a large chunk of their civil rights as our troops have done, it is incumbant upon our leaders to provide responsible leadership; and to be willing in turn to sacrifice everything for those whose fates they direct. This ain't happening.

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