Gibby is so obsessed with Keith it's not even funny waaa nbc fired me waaaa because big bad Bill o cant stand up to Keith he gets his lap dog Gibby to do it.

Gibson is the best!

Keith is an appalling drama queen. I don't think anyone takes him seriously. Gibson has a riot making fun of him.

sweet! gibby played it!

How many times on Leno last night did Fred Thompon mention his "little red truck"? Some reporter should ask him what make and year it is; what milage it gets; some general engine specs;... He would be caught flat-footed, or issue wild-ass guesses that could be checked. That "little red truck" is Thomson's "Crawford ranch" - a cynical prop to rope in the slack-jawed yokels and slack-jawed yokel wanna-bees that the Repubs depend on.

I also noticed he said "folks" about 20 times. I heard that Rove has been writing his play-book for some time; and this sure looks like a re-hash.

When Thompson starts really laying on the Jesus-talk I imagine that Phari-cee will forget he ever mooned over Bush, and will adopt a new fetish.

Gibson looks like Christopher Walken playing a comic Nazi vampire.

Christopher Walken is great.

Oh I like this beginning of the sad article....

Democrats Try to Woo G.O.P. on Iraq Policy

"With a mixed picture emerging about progress in Iraq, Senate Democratic leaders are showing a new openness to compromise as they try to attract Republican support for forcing at least modest troop withdrawals in the coming months."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/06/washington/06cong.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=slogin

###
Woo? Oh my, what a nice way to put it, huh? The left's weak ruliing class is acting like an ugly teenage girl trying to find a date to the prom.....woo?

Keith Olbermann's grand conclusions about Bush and his political machinations seems to be falling on deaf ears.....

"OUT OF IRAQ NOW!"

"RESIGN"

"IMPECHMENT"

"CUT THE FUNDS"

Why? Could it be that Keith is wrong?

No. That's impossible! The radical fringe left is never wrong!

Again....Stop the war...get the troops home....cut the funds NOW!

And this is my post today, the 1,590th day since the declaration of Mission Accomplished in Iraq.....

I am cee, good night and good luck.

"I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

"There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration's policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

"I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

"Lefties: Leave these pathetic drowning rats alone to stew in each other's juices. Get yourselves out in the street and fight this criminal administration in ways that really mean something, and that are noted by more than a handful of keyboard heroes!" Sir Loin of Beef

"American liberals need to face these truths: The demand for self-government was and remains strong in Iraq despite all our mistakes and the violent efforts of al Qaeda, Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias to disrupt it." DEMOCRAT Bob Kerrey

"If we end up saying that because these people are committing these acts of terrorism in Iraq or Afghanistan, that we shouldn't have done the removal of Saddam or the removal of the Taliban, then we are making a fundamental mistake about our own future, about security, about the values we should be defending in the world." TONY BLAIR

"You can't bring the troops home if you give George Bush $100 billion to wage this war. You're not supporting them. You're keeping them in harm's way." CINDY SHEEHAN

"There is no doubt ... that Al Qaeda is operating in Iraq. There is no doubt that we've had to take very strong measures against them. And there is no doubt that the Iraqi security forces have got to be strong enough to be able to withstand not just the violence that has been between the Sunni and the Shia population and the Sunni insurgency, but also Al Qaeda itself." GORDON BROWN

I love Gibby, but he needs to give J$ a hat tip after using the Speshul Komment remix while eviscerating Olby (yet again).

If anyone is paying attention SLOB posted the little red truck on three different threads on this site. We get it loin cloth... move along.

I like little red trucks....they're pretty.

Cee- you are back...?
The battle you had yesterday with the antisemites was legendary. You exposed a lot of hate and bias on their end.
It seemed exhausting.

Hey Jonathan-

The reason Bill doesn't go after this idiot on his show is because it drives Keith nuts. Keith would love to have his name said on the factor which DESTROYS his show every day. By ignoring him on TV he gets him back worse than fighting directly with him ever could.

Just continue to be one of the 4 people watching countdown everyday. By the way if Keith becomes the face of the liberals, they will never win in 2008.

Gibson is "obsessed" with Olbermann? Please, the obsession here is the one that Olbermann has with O'Reilly and anything, anyone, and everything and everyone at Fox!

If anyone is paying attention SLOB posted the little red truck on three different threads on this site. We get it loin cloth... move along.

Posted by: benson at September 6, 2007 9:36 AM

Yeah move along - trouble us not with uncomfortable facts regarding our new fictional fetish.

Keith Olbermann spewed: "...the dead who have PILED UP on the battlefield"

Evidently, Keith would rather have the dead PILED UP at the Word Trade Center

and

"the singular fraudulence of this President's trip to Iraq"

Puzzling. Keith has never been to Iraq. NEVER. Yet, somehow Keith knows the President's trips are fraudulent?

Somewhere, Edward R. Murrow is cringing.

SLOB,

You are the #1 loony conspiracy theorist at this site. I hope you had a chance to watch the Republican debate last night, because it would have been a great opportunity for you to jack off while listening to Ron Paul.

F R E D is here...
what WILL libs do now that a real man is in the race?!?

Posted by: at September 6, 2007 1:12 AM

"Real man"? How many times on Leno did that K-Street lobbyist/C-list actor force in a comment about his phoney-ass "little red truck"?

I counted three.

You people are such rubes; you'll fall for anything, as long as it smells like bacon.

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 6, 2007 7:31 AM

hissy fit.

Yep thats our Keith.

Thats 4 loin!

It can count; but not put 2 and 2 together.

SLOB,

You are the #1 loony conspiracy theorist at this site. I hope you had a chance to watch the Republican debate last night, because it would have been a great opportunity for you to jack off while listening to Ron Paul.

Posted by: Rico at September 6, 2007 10:29 AM

If I were to jack-of to any Republican it would have to be jungle-girl Wendy Vitter. I bet she's geared-up for some rocking revenge-fucking.

SLOB,

I don't even know who Wendy Vitter is. But I have to tell you that I can see the propeller on your head even from here.

mmmmm, bacon

>>The battle you had yesterday with the antisemites was legendary. You exposed a lot of hate and bias on their end.
It seemed exhausting.

Yeah, cee was very impressive, using nothing against my facts. You girls are total lightweights...

I don't even know who Wendy Vitter is. But I have to tell you that I can see the propeller on your head even from here.

Posted by: Rico at September 6, 2007 10:59 AM

FOX didn't talk about Senator Vitter's trysts with prostitutes, who claim he likes diapers and perverted "mothering"? Wendy is his wife - who chided Hillary during the Monica debacle that a real woman would cut off her unfaithful husband's cock.

SLOB,

They don't seem to pay much attention to the news, do they?...

...smokey, freaky revenge fuck from Wendy Vitter....mmmmm.

FREE REPUBLICAN BLOW JOBS

Free hell! I hear in Florida they'll pay you $20 to LET them blow you!

lets drag another dead horse out of the barn and start beating it.

Dead horse? Neocons are STILL bleating about Bill Clinton's heterosexual affair...

would you like some cheese with that whine?

SLOB is in hyper crybaby mode, same as Olbermann. Why? Simple. They hate that the surge is working, despite their fervent prayers to the opposite.

Juanita Broaddrick asserts she was raped and beaten by Bill Clinton. She is one of dozens of women who claim sexual misconduct by that freak Bubba Clinton, son.

20/20,

How is the surge working, child?...

"Neocons are STILL bleating about Bill Clinton's heterosexual affair..."

###
Yeah, Bill Clinton's adulterous sodomy is just so minor in evaluating his character and the woman who claims moral superiority because of her "tolerance."

Hillary's acceptance of the perverted behavior of her "husband" says more about her than their reliance on Saudi money (just like Bush Inc.) that Sir Loin of Milquetoast laments on another thread....

But that's just the opinion of a fundy flat-earther, right blindrat?

If she is nominated to be the candidate by the ruling elite, the leftists will comply and vote accordingly....

cee,

I was responding to this:

>>lets drag another dead horse out of the barn and start beating it.

If you are too stupid to follow a thread, perhaps you should find a less active site, son...

"OUT OF IRAQ NOW!"

"RESIGN"

"IMPECHMENT
"CUT THE FUNDS"

Why? Could it be that Keith is wrong?

Posted by: cee at September 6, 2007 9:13 AM

You don't really think Olbermann really meant that our country is so much in danger from a continued Bush presidency that he plans to push Obama, Edwards, or HRC into signing onto a stand on Bush's resignation, impeachment, or the defunding "of every penny expect what is necessary to get our troops safely home", do you Cee?

Gibby gets it. The people here who insist that they're not his fans ("but golly gee it's sure nice to have someone telling it like it is.... ") get it and know that's all for effect.

They ( or Dan Abrams) wouldn't want him manically going off on a Democratic candidate or politician by name, or cornering one on the air and hammering them about the things that Keith so ominously insisted are DIRELY necessary to protect our country from 500 days of Bush in charge.

Now THAT would be a bore..... :D...

And I was responding to your characterization of people's reaction to the sodomist, blindrat.....

"bleating"....

Try keeping up yourself.

blindrat spewed: "Neocons are STILL bleating about Bill Clinton's heterosexual affair..."

That's because Monica's blow job IS Bill Clinton's LEGACY. The only thing that folks will remember about B. J. Clinton 100+ years from now is Monica's blow job, a cigar, and a cum-stained blue dress. Screw the impeachment! What a HOOT.

cee,

"Bleating" implies mindless noise by herding ungulates. It is the perfect verb for neocons. And, if you have something against oral sex, son, you are definitely in the minority in this or ANY country..

Keep your so-called "religion" away from me...

"...in the context of all that now, consider these next 500 days.

Mr. Bush, our presence in Iraq must end. Even if it means your resignation. Even if it means your impeachment. Even if it means a different Republican to serve out your term. Even if it means a Democratic Congress and those true patriots among the Republicans standing up and denying you another penny for Iraq, other than for the safety and the safe conduct home of our troops.

This country cannot run the risk of what you can still do to this country in the next 500 days.

Not while you are playing."

Patriot that he is, if Olbermann doesn't believe our country can survive the damage caused by Bush's continuation in office, why isn't he demanding some action from Democrats on this?

When he's going to have Pelosi or Reid or HRC on Countdown to demand that they save the Republic by defunding the war, or calling for Bush's resignation or impeachment.

I mean...listen to the man's Special Comment!

He's really incensed... he's concerned... listen to the imagery... the deaths in Iraq are piling up.... Bush is playing us... Olbermann means it.................ya know....

"if you have something against oral sex, son,"

###
Do you mind me calling oral sex what it is, blindrat? Sodomy? It's just a definition, son.

Is this another word that insults your delicate ears, blindrat?

Perverts in both parties should be treated with equal respect, blindrat. Like I asked suck posters like Clucker......if adulturous oral sex (sodomy) is not perverted then what is "perverted" in your opinion?

Another way to put it is.....Would you slap Bill Clinton on the back and say, "good job" if Monica was your daughter?

Or is your daughter not, "like that?"

I agree, Cecelia. The democrats in Congress are busy wooing their GOP collegues to perform half measures and Keith Olbermann will remain silent.

Keith Olbermann will not demonize such powerful figures like Obama and Clinton who could really transform this into something tangable....

like calling for Bush's impeachment or resignation.....

like not funding the war......

But they remain silent here and Olbermann continues to harp on poor ol' stuuuuuping Bush for not doing what he requests.

All while Olbermann claims people are dying needlessly and the union is threatened.

Funny website about whos dating who: Brandon or some from OW should help them update it....

http://www.whosdatedwho.com/celebrities/people/dating/keith-olbermann.htm

The best part is under the "dating profile" Olbermann is listed as ATHLETIC! Too funny...

All while Olbermann claims people are dying needlessly and the union is threatened.

Posted by: cee at September 6, 2007 2:40 PM

Could it by that Olbermann and Abrams are "playing" the blue-blog crowd?....

Too funny...

Posted by: mindless fun at September 6, 2007 2:43 PM

Never trust anyone who uses that expression...

Hear the crickets from the loons?

ELEVEN democrats picked up in Jersey today for corruption!

I'd rather have a politican trying to have sex in a bathroom instead of a politician who accepts campaign contributions from a felon on the lam. (cue 'she gave it back' excuse)

I'd rather have a politican trying to have sex in a bathroom instead of a crew of politicians that are receiving bribes.

You loons are certifiable and blind. Where's your uproar hypocrits?

Oh I just noticed you post about "bleating," blindrat.....

It also means a baseless complaint....or "whining."

I will ask again, adulterous sodomy would be ok with you for your....

mother?
daughter?
wife?

No emotional reaction in your gut, whatsoever, blindrat?.....

I'd rather have a politican trying to have sex in a bathroom instead of a crew of politicians that are receiving bribes.

You loons are certifiable and blind. Where's your uproar hypocrits?

Posted by: benson at September 6, 2007 3:01 PM

I agree. I am unfamiliar with any of these NJ cases, but if credible it should be investigated and tried, right along with Jefferson and all those Abramoff Republicans.

Will you join me Benson, in adding to this docket full disclosure of Cheney's Energy Task Force, and all matters concerning the awarding of Iraq contracts? A conflict of interest is a conflict of interest.

Unless a minor is involved I could care less about investigating any of the Republican sex stuff - but its just fun to see a hypocritical moralist squirm.

SLOB- sorry buddy, but that Haliburton chorus doesn't resonate with me. Clinton was their largest supporter during his term... until Bush became president. But the left pretends that Haliburton only gets fat off rebublican presidents. Its a myth.

lets drag another dead horse out of the barn and start beating it.

Posted by: at September 6, 2007 11:26 AM

...and now these righties are advocating autoerotic necrophilic beastiality? Anon must be a Republican representative from an agricultural state.

SLOB- sorry buddy, but that Haliburton chorus doesn't resonate with me. Clinton was their largest supporter during his term... until Bush became president. But the left pretends that Haliburton only gets fat off rebublican presidents. Its a myth.

Posted by: benson at September 6, 2007 3:20 PM

What a fucking hypocrit. I agree with him that we should throw the book at all corrupt govt. officials and he snarls that holding the same standard to Republican conflicts of interest "doesn't resonate with him". Partisan tool.

I ask you why this administration needs to answer to your contract audits when Clinton did not? Because clinton has a (D) next to his name? Because the word 'Haliburton' ties your colon into a knot?

Today is the day after you and your loon friends jumped up and down about the republicans being corrupt... and today 11 DEMOCRATS are dragged from their offices. I hear nothing!

Thats hypocrisy.

You loons are certifiable and blind. Where's your uproar hypocrits?

Posted by: benson at September 6, 2007 3:01 PM

That politicians of every stripe are known to occasionally get their hand or some other appendage caught somewhere it shouldn't be...generally comes as a surprise to no one but those who wax eloquently forgetful about the wonderful halcyon days of yore before "the most corrupt administration in history ".

Yes, you're in luck if you're longing for the good old days when 95 campaign donors to Pres. Clinton and the DNC either plead the fifth or left the country after being subpoenaed by the House, because now it seems that everything old is new again....

You hear nothing - that I can believe.

I hope the corrupt Mayor of Passaic and his henchmen, and the members of the Pleasantville school board, are prosecuted and punished to the full extent of the law - Crooked bastards; whoring out the public trust for money.

But Benson, you just stated that you advocate giving the Vice President and his associates absolute freedom - no investigation, ovesight, or even consideration - to conduct bussiness with incredibly high potential for highly destructive and costly corruption.

That's hypocrisy.

Yes, I remember the days before Haliburton...when we were blessed with good govt officials/bad choices.... or good govt officials/slew of lying rightwing conspirators who wish to do them in...scenarios...

Hark back:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/03/23/trade.sale/

Benson:

"SLOB- Sorry buddy, but the Haliburtton chorus doesn't resonate with me.".....We know Benson, and it really IS very sad that people like you remain so blind to the ongoing corporate and US government lovemaking.....at the expense of the country we both love.

"Clinton was their largest supporter during his term".....How many invasions and occupations did Clinton lead?

"...until Bush became president"....And how many invasions and occupations has Bush led?

"But the left pretends that Haliburton only gets fat off republican presidents.".....We're not 'pretending' anything. We are looking at the unfortunate facts as they have transpired over the last six years. It bothers me that it doesn't bother people like you that multi-national corporations are getting fat off the blood being spilled by young Americans.

"Its a myth"....It's anything BUT a 'myth'!

Ya see SLOB- I don't expect apologies or excuses for the corrupt democrats. I don't view your whole party as corrupt. I recognize that there are bad seeds on both sides of the aisle.

But when I am constantly chided here for Craig's indiscretions, it screams of hypocrisy.

Laundered campaign contributions and corporate bribes should be investigated with far more scrutiny than an old sex scandal. Yet I still hear crickets.

"Its a myth"....It's anything BUT a 'myth'!

Posted by: Mike at September 6, 2007 3:49 PM

I doubt very seriously it's a myth to the extent that there's some glad-handing going on, big time.

However, to the extent that you or Sir Loin, imply that the war was either started or continues for corporate profit alone, instead of asking what country Clinton invaded, why not ask why he bombed Bosnia and then sent in CEO's? Or why he took campaign donations from the Chinese and then negoticiated trade agreements with them.

You guys have SUCH a selective memory and sense of outrage.

Benson: "I'd rather have a politician trying to have sex in a public bathroom than a crew of politicians that are receiving bribes.".....But you have MORE than your share of both...but unfortunately, .... no, the democrats are not paragons of virtue either.

"I ask you why this administration needs to answer to your contract audits when Clinton did not?"

I know of no such incidents/controversies surrounding Clinton - but he should have been forced to comply if such examples occurred. I was an outspoken advocate of open government during the Clinton years - based on lessons learned during the vile scandals of Reagan and Bush I.

If malfeassance in this regard can be retroactively proven in Clinton's case then I would advocate locking his ass up - assuming statutes of limitations have not yet hit the wall.

"In 2006, the American people elected a Democratic Congress to change course and end this war. It's the whole reason the American people voted for change. Yet, 10 months after the election, we still have the status quo and Congress has still failed to do the people's will. That might be the way they do it inside the Beltway, but it's not the American way. It's time to stand up for the American people and against President Bush's failed, stubborn policy. Without a firm deadline, a small withdrawal of only some of the surge troops won't cut it—that's not a solution, it's an excuse. Congress must not send President Bush any funding bill without a timeline to end this war. No timeline, no funding. No excuses."

###
Come now leftist ruling elite....So goes the expert and hugely supported nominee, John Edwards, so should go the party line....

CUT THE FUNDS.....GET THE TROOPS HOME NOW!

"I cannot and will not support any measure that does not have a firm and enforceable deadline to complete the redeployment of combat troops from Iraq. Only then will Congress be able to send a clear message to the President that we are changing course in Iraq, and a message to the Iraqis that they need to get their political house in order."

###
Another front runner Mensa member, Senator Dodd, supporting cutting those funds!

Come on now powers that be (read Pelosi and Reid).....do not fund the war.....cut those funds.....cut those funds.....

Get those troops home now!

And this is my post today, the 1,590th day since the declaration of Mission Accomplished in Iraq.....

I am cee, good night and good luck.

"I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

"There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration's policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

"I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

"Lefties: Leave these pathetic drowning rats alone to stew in each other's juices. Get yourselves out in the street and fight this criminal administration in ways that really mean something, and that are noted by more than a handful of keyboard heroes!" Sir Loin of Beef

"American liberals need to face these truths: The demand for self-government was and remains strong in Iraq despite all our mistakes and the violent efforts of al Qaeda, Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias to disrupt it." DEMOCRAT Bob Kerrey

"If we end up saying that because these people are committing these acts of terrorism in Iraq or Afghanistan, that we shouldn't have done the removal of Saddam or the removal of the Taliban, then we are making a fundamental mistake about our own future, about security, about the values we should be defending in the world." TONY BLAIR

"You can't bring the troops home if you give George Bush $100 billion to wage this war. You're not supporting them. You're keeping them in harm's way." CINDY SHEEHAN

"There is no doubt ... that Al Qaeda is operating in Iraq. There is no doubt that we've had to take very strong measures against them. And there is no doubt that the Iraqi security forces have got to be strong enough to be able to withstand not just the violence that has been between the Sunni and the Shia population and the Sunni insurgency, but also Al Qaeda itself." GORDON BROWN

Mike- i love you but you are so far off topic it doesn't merit a response.

Fact: Haliburton makes way too much money off this country, whether its a democrat or republican in office... but your constant droning of 'Haliburton and George Bush' being in bed together is just politics. Haliburton was making TONS of money off America from 1992-2000... Haliburton was overcharging us without oversite from 1992-2000... yet its this administration you hold to account.

Truth is I would love to see an audit of all contracts, because I deplore government waste... but I know the democrats would use it as a political tool against the republicans. Even if Bush was to lead the investigation, the democrats would scream he was trying to cover his tracks. It lose-lose for this administration.

Curious: (Can you name another company capable of outsourcing large scale support for our troops abroad?)

I will ask again, adulterous sodomy would be ok with you for your....

mother?
daughter?
wife?

No emotional reaction in your gut, whatsoever, blindrat?.....

Posted by: cee at September 6, 2007 3:04 PM

Well, MY gut reaction is a mental image of Prayer-Monitor cee caning the shit out of his female relations who may have disgraced his family though innappropriate contact with a man or boy.

know of no such incidents/controversies surrounding Clinton -

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 6, 2007 3:55 PM

This is astounding, but I've no doubt it's true.

If malfeassance in this regard can be retroactively proven in Clinton's case then I would advocate locking his ass up - assuming statutes of limitations have not yet hit the wall.

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 6, 2007 3:55 PM

Well, hell.... the stuff about Haliburton has never been proofed. What sort of standards of proof are you ...now.... wanting for Clinton? :D

"Truth is I would love to see an audit of all contracts, because I deplore government waste... but I know the democrats would use it as a political tool against the republicans. Even if Bush was to lead the investigation, the democrats would scream he was trying to cover his tracks. "

Well, the answers there are that Bush not lead the investigation, and that with open governmnet only proof of guilt would suffice as a political tool.

"It lose-lose for this administration."

Probably; given the fact that I believe them to be guilty as sin. An investigation could prove me wrong, however. Too bad there are truths in there that you and your fetish/president fear so much that you would make such humiliating statements.

"Curious: (Can you name another company capable of outsourcing large scale support for our troops abroad?)"

Posted by: benson at September 6, 2007 3:59 PM

The great tautological dodge of the monopolist.

Haven't you ever read Adam Smith? Demand not met by supply prompts immediate entry into the industry; unfair government preferrences (mercantilism) stifles competition and results in tepid service/production.

You righties have no idea how a fair economy works, despite your pretenses..

Well, hell.... the stuff about Haliburton has never been proofed. What sort of standards of proof are you ...now.... wanting for Clinton? :D

Posted by: Cecelia at September 6, 2007 4:03 PM

Be fair, Cecelia -I am only asking for full disclosure. Since when is that a punishment?

caning?

###
No, Loin....grace and forgiveness always abound.....Stoning and caning went the way of the cross....I live under the new covenant where love is paramount both in sexual activity and discipline.

How Clinton behaved towards Monica....I would not wish on any woman.....It was crude, disgusting and selfish. Men should treat women as human beings, not fixes for their testosterone driven urges....

He also mistreated his spouse....exposed her (if they are still intimate) to disease and public humiliation. His adulterous sodomy also is an example of a simple concept.....breaking a vow.....breaking a promise. Not a good character trait and it seems to be displayed in his economic and political dealings as well.

Remember those viruses that do not get blocked by condoms, Loin?....Herpes and HPV....remember if you and your wife were not virgins, you both should get tested.

I guess you have a different view of how men should treat women....or am I being too paternalistic for you?

Cecelia:

"I doubt very seriously it's a myth to the extent that there's some glad-handing going on, big time.".....Its good that we agree on some things.

"However, to the extent that you or Sir Loin, implies that the war was either started or continues for corporate profit alone.".....Sir Loin and I are two different people with two different opinions that sometimes, but not always intersect. I am not as cynical as he is, but I do see where he draws many of his conclusions. I sincerely hope it's not quite as bad as he believes it is, but my mind remains open. I personally believe corporate profit is a partial but still substantial motivation for this quaqmire, but not the sole one.

"instead of asking what country Clinton invaded.".....Someone else brought up Clinton, not me.

"Why not ask why he bombed Bosnia and sent in CEO's?".....Why ask about Clinton at all? Bosnia hardly qualifies as a reasonable metaphor for Iraq. No everything about that mission wasn't necessarily up and up, but it was intended as a UN sponsored humanitarian mission, and not the UN opposed ground invasion Iraq was.

"Or why he took campaign donations from the Chinese and then negotiated trade agreements with them.".....Or I could ask once again why we're still talking about Clinton, whom I never really supported either? Since we're also straying off subject, I could also mention my disatisfaction with the way Clinton pushed through Nafta.....and I have yet to figure out why he did it without getting into conspiracy theories?

"You guys have SUCH selective memory and sense of outrage.".....One again, I'm not "you guys", but MY "sense of outrage" stems almost entirely from an unnecessary invasion and occupation that has spilled massive quanities of American blood for entirely contrived reasons, and flew entirely in the face of all conventional wisdom.

.....While most American simply shrug and say "whatever"!

Gotta go for now.

"How Clinton behaved towards Monica....I would not wish on any woman.....It was crude, disgusting and selfish. Men should treat women as human beings, not fixes for their testosterone driven urges...."

Being not 30 minutes past reciept of some Grade "A" fellatio, perhaps I don't represent an unbiased opinion. Free will and love filled the room, however.

"Remember those viruses that do not get blocked by condoms, Loin?....Herpes and HPV....remember if you and your wife were not virgins, you both should get tested."

What kind of a doctor are you, cee? Do you spread fear among your middle-aged married patients regarding mythical "17-year spirochetes" in order to stem the tide of godless oral sex?

Be fair, Cecelia -I am only asking for full disclosure. Since when is that a punishment?

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 6, 2007 4:10 PM

Actually, you've already specifically stated that you believe the war in Iraq is a pretext for lining the pockets of Bush and Cheney friends and supporters.

However, you confess yourself to have no idea that such allegations were made about Clinton with Bosnia and about China as well as the allegation that access to trade mission seats were sold for campaign donations.

There was even army personel on the scene who doubted Ron Brown died from the plane crash. They were husked up by the military pretty promptly, but boy would that "resonate" were you and Mike to be hearing it now... in another context...

Well, where you Sir Loin back when Klayman and the Republican version of the investigators were doing their thing then.

Google to see how forthcoming the records were....

"Being not 30 minutes past reciept of some Grade "A" fellatio, perhaps I don't represent an unbiased opinion."

Do you think you received good value for your money, Loin?

There was even army personel on the scene who doubted Ron Brown died from the plane crash. They were husked up by the military pretty promptly, but boy would that "resonate" were you and Mike to be hearing it now... in another context...

Well, where you Sir Loin back when Klayman and the Republican version of the investigators were doing their thing then.

Google to see how forthcoming the records were....

Posted by: Cecelia at September 6, 2007 4:24 PM

Didn't you want the records to be released then? I did. Open government in all aspects has long been a major action-issue for me. Its one reason I refuse to support Hillary, Biden, and all other business-as-usual politicians.

Why do you righties always say, when faced with objections regarding government spying private citizens "Why do you have something to hide"; but when your own side's politicians are spending our money and getting our citizens killed you LOOOOOVE hiding shit?

Time and again I am faced with the most cynical of moral relativism - usually its cee or Benson, but you wade in as well. As an excuse for your leaders' corruption and secrecy you assume I support Bill Clinton (who isn;t even in politics any more) and cite loathsome infractions on his part as liscense for yo and yours.

Loin, oral herpes is not a pleasant thing to be passing around.....I am serious and STD testing for ALL adults was just recommended by the CDC this past spring....Iincluding HIV and Hep B & C....no fear from me here....just your ever idolized SCIENCE!

I sensed miseducation on your part and am trying to help.

Rememebr science....your omnipotent and omnipresent "god," oh great, compassionate and well informed secular humanist you!

Where's wanna (AAP)? and blindrat.....I suspect they should be tested for herpes also.

Get tested for your own and your spouse's good.

Didn't you want the records to be released then? I did. Open government in all aspects has long been a major action-issue for me. Its one reason I refuse to support Hillary, Biden, and all other business-as-usual politicians.

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 6, 2007 4:34 PM

Well, according to you, you didn't know that similar allegations about military exercises and subsequent trade junkets.... existed.... I'll take it for granted you knew all the stuff that was being said about the Commerce Dept and the campaign finance stuff....

I don't know what you were doing in the 90's but I'll tell you what I was NOT doing--- Blogs weren't around till later, but II wasn't siting on pro-Clinton topic boards at AOL, MSN, or Genie and describing his administration as uniquely corrupt and his supporters as having a fetish.

"You guys have SUCH selective memory and sense of outrage.".....One again, I'm not "you guys", but MY "sense of outrage" stems almost entirely from an unnecessary invasion and occupation that has spilled massive quanities of American blood for entirely contrived reasons, and flew entirely in the face of all conventional wisdom.

.....While most American simply shrug and say "whatever"!

Gotta go for now.
Posted by: Mike at September 6, 2007 4:17 PM

It's interesting that with your sole interest being the dead in Iraq, you managed to take time to upbraid Benson for his doubts about the Haliburton angle and to claim those accusations to be true.

And you managed to do that in a conversation about corrupt politicians in general.

That you now say you don't know why Clinton has been brought up at all, after jumping in and saying there were never charges towards Clinton that were similar to Haliburton, is the sort of dissembling that you routinely engage in.

Not only do you wave your hand and declare Bosnia dissimilar because Clinton never invaded!... you pronounce the whole context of providing wealthy friends and donors wtih access to foreign trade as dissimilar from those charges against Haliburton!

In the future if you don't wish to talk to someone about Clintion Era politics, I suggest you stay out of the conversation when it's being discussed.

Didn't you recently condemn us infidel secularists to pay for the "sexual sins of Gannon, Rove, Larry Craig, and Bill Clinton" for at least seven (or was it 70) generations, according to your fairy tale book?

Moooooo.
Posted by: Average American Patriot at September 6, 2007 5:12 PM

AAP, trust me, you're not the atheist to be casting aspersions on early descriptions of genetic phenomena.

Let someone else do that....

You are the one who doesn't give a shit about the troops. You crave the military conquest of a rival belief system to prove to yourself that yours is better, because the swill of illogical mythology that your brain seeps in cannot do this for you. To this end you are happy to see 4000 American soldiers die outright in a pointless occupation, and have thousands of others injured or have the psyches blasted by what your political franchise forces them to experience - all for the hope that it will enable you to more sincerely beam your smile at God on his cloud.

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 5, 2007 10:18 AM

Wow.
Talk about hiting a home room with that psychoanalysist !
Posted by: at September 6, 2007 12:17 AM

Thanks. Its pretty easy to "hit a home room" in regard to pegging these hypocrits after a few exchanges.
Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 6, 2007 1:23 AM

1. "You crave the military conquest of a rival belief system to prove to yourself that yours is better, . . ."

I would hold my beliefs had Bush never existed and the war never occurred. Actually, I crave chocolate.

2. "the swill of illogical mythology that your brain seeps in cannot do this for you."

Freedom of religion is guaranteed by the Constitution, but so is freedom of the press. Oh, that's right, Chavez rules in your world.

3. "To this end you are happy to see 4000 American soldiers die outright in a pointless occupation,and have thousands of others injured or have the psyches blasted by what your political franchise forces them to experience"

Emotionalism of the worst kind. Is it because I pointed out that when you misread the request for water purifiers as benefitting the marines you were only moved to say "Aha, another stupid Bush mistake! Let them suffer for that mistake"

4. "all for the hope that it will enable you to more sincerely beam your smile at God on his cloud."

The expert on religion speaks again. You don't even know the difference between Bush's religion and mine.

Great psychoanalysis. Just hate filled garbage, the usual fare from SLOB with his croonie anon's yes, sir approval.

By the way, Sir Loin, you currently have an opportunity to demand an investigation in what might be another charge of Democratic selling of access to donors with possible foreign connects .

Perhaps you could ask Johnny if you could do a guest blog here demanding that Olbermann actually cover the story about Hillary Clinton. Especially when he in interviewing Carl Bernstein (as he was last night), who just happens to have recently written a book that includes Hillary's role in the campaign finance scandals of her husband.

If you take up the opportunity to officially demand the story be covered.... consider demanding too that Olbermann to do as he said and save the Republic by holding Dem pols accountable for not impeaching Bush, or demanding that he resign, or defunding the war.

Careful not to make too much sense here, Cecelia. It could cause several people to have aneurysms.

Cecelia,

I'm grateful for your advice, and I repeat my apology to you, Clucker, Sharon and everyone else in the faith. Including Cee, as fucked up as he is.
Posted by: Average American Patriot at September 6, 2007 5:38 PM

Oh, AAP, now don't be nice and make me feel all guilty, sweety. :D

Careful not to make too much sense here, Cecelia. It could cause several people to have aneurysms.

Posted by: Sharon at September 6, 2007 5:48 PM

That's why I don't worry if HRC is elected, Sharon. It'll be a ball! :D

AAP,

I haven't heard anything disrespectful concerning religion from you directed toward me in quite some time. (Unless I missed something which is possible).

Have to taxi kids around now to soccer and cheerleading (excuse the clucker-esque details, just letting you know I do have a life outside of here!)

AAP,

I haven't heard anything disrespectful concerning religion from you directed toward me in quite some time. (Unless I missed something which is possible).

Have to taxi kids around now to soccer and cheerleading (excuse the clucker-esque details, just letting you know I do have a life outside of here!)

Clinton pushed through Nafta.....and I have yet to figure out why he did it without getting into conspiracy theories?

"Posted by: Mike at September 6, 2007 4:17 PM

I missed this earlier... Are you kidding! What do NAFTA critics say other than the bill is a Republican conspiracy to further enrich the rich.

Obviously, you and Olbermann only listen to Pat Buchanan when he's dissing Bush.

Not at all.

It looks like I haven't "finished the job" with Cee.

So don't be surprised by more verbal abuse from the average potty mouth.
Posted by: Average American Patriot at September 6, 2007 5:59 PM

Don't you think it's time you grew up and started using fewer exclamation points, AAP?

Cecelia,

Olbermann is one of the many influential media/opinion/news personalities who recieve frequent recommendations and criticisms from me through their shows and producers. Some of these messages have been shared with wider readerships as letters to the editor in relevant publications. I might consider drafting something in regard to your requests - I've certainly ragged him in reard to his Hillary crush recently, among other matters.

But I don't need any recognized relationship with this web-rag, thank you very much. My status here as disdained troll suits me fine.

I wont

oops; lost my train of thought

I missed this earlier... Are you kidding! What do NAFTA critics say other than the bill is a Republican conspiracy to further enrich the rich.

Obviously, you and Olbermann only listen to Pat Buchanan when he's dissing Bush.

Posted by: Cecelia at September 6, 2007 6:20 PM

What is your sample of "Nafta critics"? Here is a section of Noam Chomsky's critique of Clinton's neo-liberal NAFTA boosterism. As usual, he over-uses a dry sarcasm, but you can get the point (http://www.chomsky.info/articles/199401--.htm):

"Clinton's pro-business attitudes are fine-tuned, the Journal continues: "Democratic presidents do tend to appeal more to big corporations than to the legions of small-business owners," and Clinton is no exception. His health care plan "is far kinder to big companies than to small ones," also favoring "major insurers" over smaller ones; "and big companies are the big winners" on other health-related issues. Business is also generally pleased with Clinton on fiscal and environmental policies. In the latter domain, the report continues, the only lapse of the Clinton-Gore team that troubles executives is an order to the government to use more recycled paper. On trade, beyond NAFTA, business is pleased with Clinton initiatives to strongarm competitors and "his plan to link about $150 million in foreign aid to purchases of US goods," another proper form of state intervention to protect business from market forces. The "activist Clinton presidency has revived the Business Roundtable, which consists of 200 big-company CEOs." Formerly a major business advocacy group, the Roundtable "was nearly irrelevant" under the Republicans (self-lobbying being unnecessary) but has now again become a "major player" thanks to Clinton's activist presidency, forming the core of the NAFTA lobby among other tasks. The big government New Democrat is a man of principle across the board, the business community is pleased to see.15

As these developments again illustrate, it is a calumny to claim that politics in the world's leading democracy is limited to two factions of the business party. On the contrary, there is a spectrum ranging from the party of big business all the way to the party that "aggressively woos and pleases" it, marginalizing other concerns. It is that model that we must proudly defend, and make sure that others understand and adopt for themselves."

As these developments again illustrate, it is a calumny to claim that politics in the world's leading democracy is limited to two factions of the business party. On the contrary, there is a spectrum ranging from the party of big business all the way to the party that "aggressively woos and pleases" it, marginalizing other concerns. It is that model that we must proudly defend, and make sure that others understand and adopt for themselves."
Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 6, 2007 6:49 PM

Chomsky, Nader, Lerner..... KUCINICH... you want REAL conspiracy stuff, google, Clknton, NAFTA, and superhighway.

Sir Loin of Beef ,
If Clinton wasn't a Leftist (which he isn't), why do Leftist like Olbermann support Hillary?

.ME: "You crave the military conquest of a rival belief system to prove to yourself that yours is better, . . ."

SHARON: I would hold my beliefs had Bush never existed and the war never occurred.

-----And one of those beliefs would apparently be that its OK to kill through direct industrial violence and fomentation of chaos the innocent men, women, and children of a particular religion (other than yours) because a fringe element of that religion uses terrorism to make its points.

ME: 2. "the swill of illogical mythology that your brain seeps in cannot do this for you."

SHARON: Freedom of religion is guaranteed by the Constitution, but so is freedom of the press. Oh, that's right, Chavez rules in your world.

---- who said anything about infringing on your rights to be willfully ignorant? I was just pointing out that you are.

Viva Chavez!

Chomsky, Nader, Lerner..... KUCINICH... you want REAL conspiracy stuff, google, Clknton, NAFTA, and superhighway.

Posted by: Cecelia at September 6, 2007 7:18 PM

OK, great. You are aware of these positions. Care to modify your previous blanket statement regarding "critics of Nafta" and the poor maligned Republicans?

If Clinton wasn't a Leftist (which he isn't), why do Leftist like Olbermann support Hillary?

Posted by: The Joker at September 6, 2007 7:20 PM

What in the world makes you think Olbermann is a "Leftist"? He's a corporate employee engaged in the sad business of information as a free-market commodity. I don;t like the system - but its the one we have. In Olbermann's case I approve of much that he's selling.

....a lot of his Hillary coverage I leave on the shelf.

Olbermann is a Leftist.
Listen to his views.
He supports IOran.
believes in cencoring anyone on the Right.
Attacks Christians and Jews.
Defends Muslims.
He's a true Leftist!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070906/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bin_laden_video;_ylt=Ai6.LOH25nR3l0yi_4Io89ys0NUE

Here we go! Another Osama tape popping out just when support for Bush's war is tanked - in this case as the State Department leaks that the Iraqi government is clearly a lost cause.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/2007/09/06/2007-09-06_iraq_government_near_collapse_secret_rep.html

Osama needs Bush in Iraq; Bush needs frightened Americans. What a tag-team!

OK, great. You are aware of these positions. Care to modify your previous blanket statement regarding "critics of Nafta" and the poor maligned Republicans?

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 6, 2007 7:29 PM

Why do I need to modify my previous position?

Mike implied that NAFTA is supported by Republicans and therefore they hadn't concocted any "conspiracy theories" around Clinton's support of it, I replied that the isolationist right (Republicans.... see the website Human Events...) consider the entire bill a pro-rich guy conspiracy.

I assumed that everyone knew that most of the left was against NAFTA.

My fault for coming in late- I thought you were saying that ALL criticisms of NAFTA were aimed at Repubs; ignoring the complicit Democrats.

But seriously Cecelia...mercantilism is a "conspiracy theory"? I can hear echos of your 1776 incarnation now: "But really; what other company could do the jobs we give to the East India Company?"

Cecelia: "Mike implied that NAFTA is supported by Republicans and therefore they hadn't concocted any "conspiracy theories" around Clinton's support of it."

Wow....I didn't know I had implied that at all!

And here I was virtually certain that I had put it squarely on Clinton's shoulders since it never could have become law without his signature. Yes, in my opinion, it was very much a 'Republican' concept, and that is why it confounded and dissapointed me so much that Clinton supported it so strongly.

Who can forget the famous nationally televised Gore/Perot debate on the issue. I for one, can never completely forgive Clinton or Gore for that.

The conspiracy theories I was referring to have little to do with just the Republicans. They revolve around things like One World Government, The illuminatti, The Free Masons, and Globalization. Of those, Globalization is the only one I take even half seriously, and the proponants of all of them seem to hold BOTH the Republicans and the Democrats in equal contempt.

But seriously Cecelia...mercantilism is a "conspiracy theory"? I can hear echos of your 1776 incarnation now: "But really; what other company could do the jobs we give to the East India Company?"

Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at September 6, 2007 8:20 PM

No, I really don't think anti-globalism is a "conspiracy theory" in the sense of Wag the Dog, etc.

It was an amused response to what I thought was Mike's suggestion that there had been none around NAFTA.

That's why I don't worry if HRC is elected, Sharon. It'll be a ball! :D
Posted by: Cecelia at September 6, 2007 5:51 PM
Wonder if Cecilia would give Hillary the pass she has given Bush and the republicans the past 7 years.
Yeah right!

Posted by: Why don't you think at September 6, 2007 8:40 PM

WDYT, unless there's some sort of extraordinary circumstance, I'll give her the same pass I gave President Clinton when his administration had similar allegations against it (and other dissimilar ones) that you charge Bush with now.

I won't make stupid statement that her administration is singularly corrupt. I won't call supporter for her a mindless fetish. I won't park myself on a pro-HIllary blogsite just to utter idiotic statements like that to her supporters.

We'll see how a truthseeker like yourself handles charges against her.. :D

"Wonder if Cecelia would give Hillary the pass she has given Bush and the republicans the past 7 years."

I don't know about Cecelia, but I'm certain the republicans will re-open Whitewater if they can. But if not, they'll find SOMETHING to try to distract her AND the country with for her entire term, just like they did with Bill.

We'll see how a truthseeker like yourself handles charges against her.. :D

Posted by: Cecelia at September 6, 2007 8:50 PM

We've just seen how Olbermann handled it..

I don't know about Cecelia, but I'm certain the republicans will re-open Whitewater if they can. But if not, they'll find SOMETHING to try to distract her AND the country with for her entire term, just like they did with Bill.

Posted by: Mike at September 6, 2007 8:51 PM

So you've discounted the fact that White Water investigation led to the conviction of a democratic governor of Arkansas, the jailing of the assistant to the U.S. Attorney General, and Clinton pal, James McDougal.

By the way, Mike, the assistant to the AG, web hubble, was given money by the Riadys (look them up...) AFTER he was convicted and sentenced...

I don't know about Cecelia, but I'm certain the republicans will re-open Whitewater if they can. But if not, they'll find SOMETHING to try to distract her AND the country with for her entire term, just like they did with Bill.

Posted by: Mike at September 6, 2007 8:51 PM

Not a peep from olbypologist #1 about Olbermahn bringing up Watergate (Ding!) almost every single night.

-And one of those beliefs would apparently be that its OK to kill through direct industrial violence and fomentation of chaos the innocent men, women, and children of a particular religion (other than yours) because a fringe element of that religion uses terrorism to make its points.

Glad to see the word "apparent." Please find quotations of mine that I have made this into a holy war. I have made it known what my religion is, and you have made the jump that I support war to kill others of a different faith. You don't recall all of the other times you called me %$@# stupid for stating that I believe Bush acted on evidence that he believed indicated the presence of WMD and that Saddam was a threat. (Saddam did not strictly adhere to his religion and taking him out is no blow to Sunni Muslims.) I said that I had not seen proof that he lied. Call me *#$@#$$ stupid for that; not for a belief in a holy war.

I have contacted three servicemen by e-mail, one of which responded here directly, another who gave me permission to post his e-mail to me. They don't represent all servicemen and women but they certainly represent a significant group. They think I support them. And off the group that are disillusioned, angry, statistically speaking, a majority of them are likely Christians who would take issue with the statement that their brains seep with the swill of illogical mythology.

I support victory, but not at any cost. I don't believe withdrawal this past year would have resulted in less damage, but more.

Twice I corrected you about incorrect comments you made concerning me, and to your credit, both times you acknowledged fault. I don't expect it a third time.

9:22 was directed to SLOB

Olbyloon Ed

In January 1996, a long sought-after copy of billing records from the Rose Law Finn were identified and turned over to prosecutors by Carolyn Huber, a White House assistant to Hillary Rodham Clinton. Ms. Huber, herself a former Rose Law Firm employee, recognized the records and realized that they had been among papers that she had removed six months earlier from the First Lady's book room on the third floor of the White House.

The mysterious appearance of the billing records, which had been the specific subject of various investigative subpoenas for two years, sparked intense interest about how they surfaced and where they had been. Shortly after the discovery of the records, Hillary Clinton made history -- she became the only First Lady ever called to testify before a Grand Jury inquiry.

What They Reveal

Ms. Clinton and her attorney have stated publicly that the billing records confirm that, as an attorney at the Rose Firm in the mid-80's, she was not significantly involved in the representation of Jim McDougal's savings and loan, Madison Guaranty.

According to the Rose records, Hillary Clinton billed Madison for 60 hours of work over a 15 month period. Ms. Clinton's attorney argues that this represents a de minimus amount of work and includes billings for work performed by Rose Finn lawyers working for Hillary Clinton at the time.

But Whitewater investigators believe that the billing records show significant representation. They argue that the records prove that Ms. Clinton was not only directly involved in the representation of Madison, but more specifically, in providing legal work on the fraudulent Castle Grande land deal.

In particular, investigators zeroed in on the individual billings, including a dozen calls and meetings with Seth Ward, the individual whom regulators determined was a "straw man" in the Castle Grande deal. These contacts occurred during a period of time, including early 1986, that Ward was engaged in efforts to obtain sales commissions from McDougal that would later tip regulators to illegalities at Castle Grande.

Of particular interest to investigators has been Ms. Clinton's work on an option agreement drafted to provide Seth Ward with some $300,000 in commissions on the re-sale of his holdings at Castle Grande. Regulators determined that the option agreement was principally designed to further obfuscate and hide the fraudulent nature of the underlying Castle Grande transactions.

The records also identified what investigators believe was a significant phone call on April 7, 1986 between Ms. Clinton and then-Madison loan officer Don Denton. When questioned by investigators about the call, Denton remembered speaking with Ms. Clinton about efforts to provide Ward with his commissions. According to their conversation, Denton believes that Ms.Clinton was familiar with the nature of the transaction -- again, a transaction that investigators believe was intended to deceive financial regulators.

Who Had the Records?

Investigators have examined the Rose billing records not only to determine the role Hillary Clinton may have played in the Castle Grande transactions, but more significantly to ascertain her role in their mysterious disappearance and subsquent reappearance.

If someone had knowledge or possession of the billing records and knew that they were the subject of Federal investigative subpoenas, their failure to divulge or turn over the records could be the basis for criminal charges -- the obstruction of justice.

The billing records found in Hillary Clinton's book room were a copy of an original version printed out from the Rose Firm computer in 1992, when the computer file itself was deleted. Webb Hubbell has testified that he recalls reviewing a copy of the billing records in response to press inquiries during the 1992 Presidential campaign. Hubbell says that he then passed the records on to Vince Foster who was, as far as Hubbell knows, the last person to have the records.

Investigators believe the book room copy was indeed Vince Foster's. The copy contains notations, in red ink, that are Vince Foster's handwriting. These notations appear to be directed toward Hillary Clinton, including questions about some of the individual billings. Investigators believe this suggests that, at some point, this copy was passed from Vince Foster to Hillary Clinton for her review.

In addition, investigators had the FBI conduct fingerprint analysis of the billing records. Of significance, the prints of Vince Foster and Hillary Clinton were found.

The Senate Whitewater Committee concluded that Hillary Clinton was the person most likely to have put the billing records in her book room, or know how they got there. The Independent Counsel continues to investigate Ms. Clinton's involvement in handling the records.

For her part, Hillary Clinton has said that she has no idea how the billing records came to be in her book room. Yea, right!

I see Jeff's already re-opened Whitewater.

What did I tell you?

Twice I corrected you about incorrect comments you made concerning me, and to your credit, both times you acknowledged fault. I don't expect it a third time.

Posted by: Sharon at September 6, 2007 9:22 PM

That's probably wise; I don't recall you every acknowledging when I've shown you where you are wrong

SLOB,

Your mistakes were easily provable: (attributing what RK said to me; misconstruing a plea for help for the Iraqis, not marines). You still could have ignored the proof anyways.

You are wrong again. I never made any suggestions tying the war into religion, except to say that both the present pope and previous one spoke against the war, but did not speak ex cathedra. And that their opinions were much more holy than mine, but they didn't have access to intelligence. I spoke of the concept of a just war, in the sense that war can be justified if it is a last resort and the resulting harm will not be greater than the harm attempting to be thwarted. If it was believed that a madman had access to WMD, then in my mind, it was justifiable given the resulting harm. (Kucinich signed onto the Liberation of Iraq legislation that did not contemplate direct military action, had as its goal removal of Saddam from power and replacing his regime with democracy. Only Ron Paul and one democrat went on the record to offer opposition. What did the signers believe would happen upon removal of Saddam? Did they foresee sectarian violence?) That is pre-war analysis, what I admittedly did not engage in at the time but after the fact. Post-war analysis concerns the best time to leave, i.e., cause the least amount of harm.

I don't know if you have ever seen the movie Glory, but there is a scene when one of the famous officers (I just can't remember who) ordered the 54th to burn down a southern town (if you didn't see it, this will mean nothing). His eyes glazed over and he talked about removing "secesh" as a call from God, some kind of crazy line that was believed at the time by many, I'm sure. Anyway, I think you have me wrongly pegged as that guy. If you know the movie, you'll get what I am saying. If not, the movie, IMO, is worth the time to watch.

The internet is great; from Glory:

Your men march handsomely.|My compliments.
{266}{293}Thank you, sir.
{299}{372}l am surprised at|how well you handle them.
{383}{464}l'm from Kentucky originally|and we owned a few ourselves...
{469}{511}...so it comes naturally to me.
{531}{607}You are from Boston, are you not?
{659}{752}lt is impossible|to imagine Boston with slaves.
{1317}{1397}Town's clean, sir.|Ain't no Rebs here, just some women.
{1403}{1468}Well, all right.|You hear that, boys?
{1474}{1524}Let's clear her out.
{1647}{1673}What are you doing?
{1679}{1742}Liberating this town|in the name of the Republic.
{1748}{1822}The musket, master colonel,|never shoot it. Shoot now?
{1827}{1882}Yeah, l don't see why not.|Go ahead.
{1899}{1947}Shoot the lady, boys!
{2031}{2073}Don't shoot!|We ain't Secesh here.
{2079}{2108}That man's a civilian.
{2114}{2207}That man is Secesh.|And Secesh is all the same, son.
{2318}{2339}Look at them.
{2344}{2452}You really think anybody's gonna|put these boys into some real
combat?
{2468}{2490}Do you?
{2545}{2603}They're little monkey children,|for God's sake.
{2608}{2672}And you just gotta know how|to control them.
{2767}{2797}Please!
{2852}{2906}You see what l mean? Children.
{2964}{2999}Animals!
{3004}{3037}Leave her alone!
{3043}{3127}Hey, boy, take your hands|off the white lady.
{3338}{3423}That wouldn't have been necessary|if that woman hadn't started it.
{3429}{3467}They'll never learn.
{3489}{3609}You see, Seceshes must be swept away|by God's hand like the Jews of
old.
{3639}{3700}And now l'll have to burn this town.

Indeed.

from a former Iraq correspondent for Stars and Stripes:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yrps6n

Nice cut and paste, O'liar.

I think it sums up SLOB's view pretty accurately, don't you?

O'lielly - Queen of Cut 'n' Paste. Nary an original thought in her fugly little head

Yeah, and now O'Lielly is cutting and pasting from a site that itself has lied hundreds of times, documented and proven. Oh, and perhaps that's why they talk about the special "demo" rating at 8:00 pm and say nothing about total viewers. Ya think? And why they don't mention that they're using inflated DVR numbers. Ya think? And why O'Lielly swallows it all and regurgitates it back here like a good little denizen of the echo chamber. Ya think?

So DVR viewers aren't really viewers? I wonder if they know that?

MIke- I agree about the DVR inflation... I watch 70% of my TV right off a DVR. I however do have a problem when they lead with the demo numbers. Discounting numbers outside the demo is obvious bias... expecially when the 'demo' numbers are truly meant to be used as a marketing tool. I digress.

Above was me:

AND typical Olielly retort. My guess he is straight from the DailyKOs site. Cut-N-Paste Oreilley reply: His viewers are old and use depends.

You surely do love to [paste] your talking points.

"You are wrong again. I never made any suggestions tying the war into religion"

OK, Maybe not, But you widely proclaim adherence to a religion of PEACE; but advocate a destructive illegal invasion against people who follow a different one. Yesterday, I think, you sputtered "You're always attacking Christians - What about the Muslims?" This suggests that you do have issues in this area.

But perhaps you are being honest - that you don't view this occupation as a redemptive holy crusade. I dont believe it, but perhaps I am wrong. What is nonetheless definitely true is that your purported faith in the Prince of Peace means abslutely nothing, given the horrid and venal works you support through your political franchise. In fact, it is an abominaton. A couple of water purifiers donated to the survivors will not remove your guilt or mine.

Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrits! For ye devour widows houses and for pretense make long prayer; therefore ye shall recieve the greater damnation.

Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrits! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of Hell than yourselves

Woe unto ye scribes and Pharisees, Hypicrits!

Seceshes must be swept away by God's hand

I forgot, you have to state SARCASM here

ANd you misquoted me, again, to give a different context. I don't have time now, but I'll find it.

ANd you misquoted me, again, to give a different context. I don't have time now, but I'll find it.

Posted by: Sharon at September 7, 2007 8:56 AM

Quit being decietful, Sharon. I did not seek out the precise words you used, but I relected the nature of your whine precisely.

You point from the "Glory" quotes is lost on me. Are you desparately eliciting the spurious "liberals don't think the Iraqis can govern themselves" strawman by citing the Union officer's condescension to his black troops? Sorry, but my position has always been that they absolutely CAN govern themselves; but that this is impossible for them as long as we are ruling their country. Pretty simple to understand, actually.

Are you for some reason (but no more of a non sequitur) lamenting the treatment of the south during Sherman's march? Probably not.

...or maybe you are coming to your senses and expressing recognition that during a violent occupation, manichaean certainty on the part of the occupiers routinely victimizes the innocent people being occupied.

I just don't know. The scope of the pasted transcript is simply too broad, and you provide very little in terms of relevant framing.

Anyway, I think you have me wrongly pegged as that guy. If you know the movie, you'll get what I am saying. If not, the movie, IMO, is worth the time to watch.

Posted by: Sharon at September 6, 2007 11:00 PM

No, I don't have you pegged as that guy. That guy was actually taking part in the fight that he supported (albeit in a very scurrilous and cowardly fashion).

The best film analogy for you that I can think of in the short run would be Paul's father in "All Quiet on the Western Front"; a detatched but emphatic war-booster who does not listen to his battered and abused soldier son when he tries to tell him about the futility and horror of the German war of conquest. I don't recall a specific element of religous hypocrisy in this character; but his lip-service to the values of civilized society will suffice as a surrogate.

SLOB,

Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, Dingbats! For ye have had your mind posessed by the screwball Ron Paul, to make one proselyte for, and when ye then fall prey to bizarre conspiracy theories nonsense is put forth, ye make him twofold more the child of Hell than yourselves.

Ron Paul is right about much, but his hyper-libertarianism (no taxes, etc.) would make him a dangerous president. I do, however, appreciate the consternation he is wrecking among the republican bumblefucks.

I first specifically referred to this part of the movie:

His eyes glazed over and he talked about removing "secesh" as a call from God,

Posted by: Sharon at September 6, 2007 11:00 PM

Then I pasted the whole scene for context, but this line summarizes the mindset you accused me of having:

You see, Seceshes must be swept away|by God's hand like the Jews of
old.
{3639}{3700}And now l'll have to burn this town.

Posted by: Sharon at September 6, 2007 11:00 PM

The civilians were "secesh" (Muslim) and seceshes are all alike. Do it for the Republic. It was the mindset to which I referred.

Concerning the Iraqi's ability to govern themselves? Kucinich supported this legislation which set into law a continued policy toward Iraq (which received almost no opposition):

"It is the sense of the Congress that once the Saddam Hussein regime is removed from power in Iraq, the United States should support Iraq's transition to democracy by providing immediate and substantial humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people, by providing democracy transition assistance to Iraqi parties and movements with democratic goals, and by convening Iraq's foreign creditors to develop a multilateral response to Iraq's foreign debt incurred by Saddam Hussein's regime."

You think that the transition could have occurred without the military. Those providing aid would not have been safe. I don't see how a smooth transition could have occurred after Saddam was removed (by whom?). I am speaking in hindsight; I didn't know of the existence of this law until a few weeks ago, but it certainly provides proof that establishing a democracy in Iraq was not the brainchild of Bush.

There has been a unification against al Qaeda in al Anbar. A common enemy is tragically what brought an end to the violence against each other.

Quit being decietful, Sharon. I did not seek out the precise words you used, but I relected the nature of your whine precisely.

I stated that I was not inviting you to insult Muslims; you know that you have a particular hatred of Christians. The 19 hijackers acted in the name of religion, not one that many peaceful Muslims ascribe to. Bush should not have referred to them as kids. Did you know that Christians have also suffered in Iraq? They comprise a small minority, but they suffer also.

Finally, I write in snippets because it is the only way I can operate. You can respond or ignore.

its fun watching as o'lielly thinks he can EVER match wits with johnny dollar. keep dreaming o'lielly. i suggest you start by getting a GED.

> Newshounds has been sited as lying hundreds of times ?

Not "sited". Proven. Caught in the act. Exposed. That must be why you quote them. Liars of a feather flock together.

> your site nothing but what it is. a hate site.

Well, yeah, I hate liars. I hate lies. I hate it when people don't tell the truth. Apparently you don't. As I said, liars of a feather...

"You think that the transition could have occurred without the military."

Here is your "transition", Sharon:

"As we crossed the border and saw the last of the Iraqi flags, the tears began again. The car was silent except for the prattling of the driver who was telling us stories of escapades he had while crossing the border. I sneaked a look at my mother sitting beside me and her tears were flowing as well. There was simply nothing to say as we left Iraq. I wanted to sob, but I didn’t want to seem like a baby. I didn’t want the driver to think I was ungrateful for the chance to leave what had become a hellish place over the last four and a half years.

The Syrian border was almost equally packed, but the environment was more relaxed. People were getting out of their cars and stretching. Some of them recognized each other and waved or shared woeful stories or comments through the windows of the cars. Most importantly, we were all equal. Sunnis and Shia, Arabs and Kurds… we were all equal in front of the Syrian border personnel.

We were all refugees- rich or poor. And refugees all look the same- there’s a unique expression you’ll find on their faces- relief, mixed with sorrow, tinged with apprehension. The faces almost all look the same.

The first minutes after passing the border were overwhelming. Overwhelming relief and overwhelming sadness… How is it that only a stretch of several kilometers and maybe twenty minutes, so firmly segregates life from death?

How is it that a border no one can see or touch stands between car bombs, militias, death squads and… peace, safety? It’s difficult to believe- even now. I sit here and write this and wonder why I can’t hear the explosions.

I wonder at how the windows don’t rattle as the planes pass overhead. I’m trying to rid myself of the expectation that armed people in black will break through the door and into our lives. I’m trying to let my eyes grow accustomed to streets free of road blocks, hummers and pictures of Muqtada and the rest…

How is it that all of this lies a short car ride away?"

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_riverbendblog_archive.html#828763212765794127#828763212765794127

"There has been a unification against al Qaeda in al Anbar. A common enemy is tragically what brought an end to the violence against each other. "

Only AFTER we substantially reduced our presence there; and officially handed control to tribal leaders as we pulled back to "secure" Bagdhad. Why not do this for the whole country?

...and I understand that 7 American troops were just killed in Anbar. Sort of make one wonder who the "common enemy" is.

really... johnny two cents.. where has it been proven... caught in the act.. exposed ?

Posted by: Bill O'lielly at September 7, 2007 1:33 PM

>>Here are just a few, o'liar.

http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C1049953760/E20060223193935/

"I stated that I was not inviting you to insult Muslims; you know that you have a particular hatred of Christians"

Correction: I have a particular hatred of hypocritical christianists. I know and care for a large number of Christians.

Bush talked about al Anbar in his January 2007 speech. Neither you nor I know for certain who was responsible for the roadside bombs. With Bush just in al Anbar, I'll wager on al qaeda or foreign insurgents.

Your anecdote doesn't prove a smooth transition would have occurred. I read a story about a mixed Sunni/Shia marriage: the husband was threatened with retribution if he did leave the neighborhood (I don't remember if he was Sunni or his wife). Being a proud man, he didn't and was shortly thereafter executed. I cited this story here but don't have the link. I'll assume you'll take my word.

From the 1994 Cheney interview cited by you several weeks ago:

Once you got to Iraq and took it over, took down Saddam Hussein's government, then what are you going to put in its place? That's a very volatile part of the world, and if you take down the central government of Iraq, you could very easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off: part of it, the Syrians would like to have to the west, part of it -- eastern Iraq -- the Iranians would like to claim, they fought over it for eight years. In the north you've got the Kurds, and if the Kurds spin loose and join with the Kurds in Turkey, then you threaten the territorial integrity of Turkey.

You seemed to agree with Cheney's 1994 statement. That above part of the transcript is outside of the fear of the U.S. being viewed as occupiers. What I see (and apparently what Blair knew) was the incredibly poor planning to implement a democracy that was the stated policy of th 1998 legislation. We haven't been able to get to the transition period because of the violence. You think that would be resolved if the U.S. never was a military presence. Are you agreeing with the 1998 policy to take out Saddam and letting democracy take hold without a military presence?

Correction: I have a particular hatred of hypocritical christianists. I know and care for a large number of Christians.

Are these online friends or people with whom you interact outside of the blogosphere and can form a more fair opinion?

I don't want to be part of the driving force of your hatred.

-Fiimaan illaah

You think that would be resolved if the U.S. never was a military presence. Are you agreeing with the 1998 policy to take out Saddam and letting democracy take hold without a military presence?

Posted by: Sharon at September 7, 2007 2:43 PM

Yes, if I understand your question. transitions can and do occur non-violently; or violently but internally. Our invasion was wholly unjustified, and has had abysmal results. I have stated my belief before that our government intentionally fomented the chaos and sectarian violence. The recent self-defensive infighting between Bremer and Bush will hopefully continue and shed more light on such perfidious provocation.

I accept your anecdote; please accept mine: I recently saw an interview with an Iraqi family living as refugees in Syria. The wife was Shia and the husband Sunni, and they both said that prior to the invasion such distinctions were meaningless. The husband said that when he asked his bride's parents for her hand in marriage the issue was not even raised.

Divide and conquor has long been a dictum of Imperialists; there are many documented historical examples of the US and, more frequently, British secret services committing terroristic crimes against ethnic or political groups within an occupied or targeted nation and blaming it on others within that country. Al Qeada is certainly engaged in the same sort of activity; but I think it undeniable that our far more overt and powerful presence in Iraq procludes effective counter-measures by patriotic Iraqis - who are in many cases are engaged in attacking our soldiers as unwanted occupiers.

Sharon,
Your last post suggests that you have joined the "Its all been a mistake (or at least handled badly) but were are there now" crowd.

What about accountibility? Undeniable lies were told to initiate this war; and I challenge you to find a single policy decision by our leadership in the the post-invasion period that could have been designed to more effectively create chaos.

Even if you insist that all of these acts were entirely accidental, and not the intentional disruptions that I think evidence clearly shows them to have been, why would you still listen to or follow the direction of the people who put us there?

Moreover; why would we as an honorable nation not want to investigate and prosecute our leadership (and I include Hillary, Biden, Schumer, Reid, et.al. along with Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld and their minions) to the fullest extent of the law for their disastrous decisions made for our country?

"Are these online friends or people with whom you interact outside of the blogosphere and can form a more fair opinion?"

Family, freinds and colleagues, Sharon. One really can't avoid Christians entirely in this society.

meanwhile, seven soldiers killed in Iraq today.........................................................................................

> the proof that J$ is correct in claiming that "Newshounds" lies is from J$?

Wrong. The proof is in the transcripts and video I provide. If you don't accept that then you are either a lunatic yourself or just another liar.

> "Media Matters," a most thorough and objective site

I rest my case.

and that's more than you Loons will ever have.

And I'm also willing to bet he's got a dollar for every penny you idiots have too.

"And I'm also willing tobet he's got a dollar for every penny you idiots have too."

Oh....! Why didn't you say so before? THAT settles everything!

And I'm also willing to bet he's got a dollar for every penny you idiots have too.

Posted by: At least Dollar's got a case at September 8, 2007 12:21 AM

And as a good Free-Market Fundie Republican, that makes you his eager bitch.

I'd rather be JD's bitch than Olbermann's.

I'd rather be JD's bitch than Olbermann's.

Posted by: at September 8, 2007 9:58 AM

Saddle up, Dollar! You've got a live one!