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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    October 19, 2007
    Countdown with Keith Olbermann - October 19, 2007

    "COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" (8:00 P.M.-9:00 P.M. ET)

    Host: Keith Olbermann

    Topics/Guests:

    • REPUBLICANS IN THE 2008 ELECTION: Richard Wolffe, Newsweek senior White House correspondent and MSNBC political analyst; Arianna Huffington, huffingtonpost.com editor
    • "BROKEN GOVERNMENT": John Dean, fmr. Nixon White House counsel and author of "Broken Government"
    • JOE TORRE SPEAKS: Bob Costas, NBC Sports
    • LATEST BRITNEY SPEARS NEWS: Paul F. Tompkins, VH-1 contributor and comedian

    It's an end-of-the-week spiel: "lunatic fringe" [Ding!], "right wing" [Ding!], Limbaugh (again!), another O'Reilly attack (again!), Joe Torre, Britney (again!).... It's casual Friday at Olbermann Watch.

    Bathtub Boy

    #5: OlbyPlanet wish fulfillment: "theocrats" will split the GOP, electing a Dem. KO Kandidate Kapsules: Giuliani is "twice-divorced", Mitt Romney is "a Mormon", McCain is "sucking up", yada yada yada. The Wolffe Man simpered about the "narrow" values of the "Tony Perkins crowd". Oralmann declared McCain's speech to the values voters inappropriate: a "senior express moment". Great thanks.

    Then it was on to attacking Limbaugh (Blue Blog Source: Hillary Clinton's Media Matters). Again. It's S-Chip. Again. Captain, the space time continuum seems to be caught in an endless loop! Herr Olbermoronn introduced Arianna Huffington as "my friend" and a full segment of Rush attacks ("idiot", "failed baseball executive") followed. He's attacking 12-year-old boys "and I'm not talking about Foley or Craig", bellowed Merkle to Zsa Zsa. Geez, Bathman. To paraphrase your sidekick The Boy Wonder, why this obsession over Rush? When did a Rush comment ever kill anyone? No mention made of the millions Rush just raised for charity, and will match out of his own pocket. Isn't that news? Not on OlbyPlanet. Great thanks.

    #4: Olbermann's Criminal Rehabilitation Program convened another meeting with its star member, felon John Dean. It didn't take long for the obligatory comparison: "Nixon!" [Ding!] Great thanks. #3: Joe Torre discussion with Olby and his sidekick Costas. #2: David Copperfield, Lindsay Lohan, Brokeback Mountain. #1: Britney Spears.

    The Media Matters Minute: Attack on O'Reilly (Blue Blog Source: Hillary Clinton's Media Matters). His crime? He had guests on his show who disagreed with him and actually criticized him! Why is that so stunning? It isn't, but we can see how it would be to someone who broadcasts from the sheltered echo chamber of OlbyPlanet. Worst: "lunatic fringe" [Ding!]Hugh Hewitt (Blue Blog Source: Think Progress).

    Keith Limpermann

    If it's Friday, it's our weekly assessment of Krazy Keith's masculinity. This week Monkeymann attacked Fox and other broadcasters 19 times. Olby's source (Media Matters) criticized (MS)NBC nine times, but again, Keithy protected his corporate masters with zero criticisms. That makes this week's Olbermann Manhood Quotient: -38 [wet noodle limp].

    MisterMeter

    Olbermann's book The book that bears Olbermann's name is #15,888 on amazon, while "Culture Warrior" is #1,752. (It's that 2-for-$25 sale!) Barnes & Noble has the OlbyTome sinking to #54,809; O'Reilly's book is #2,186 there, and is one of the top five books of 2006 per Publishers Weekly. On Thursday the infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann slipped again into third place in the coveted, pivotal, much-beloved, critical, all-important "key demo". Can a new Special Education Komment be in the works? Tonight's MisterMeter reading: 2 [LOW]


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (103) | | View blog reactions

    103 Comments

    Oralthemutt will have a 'Pecial Muttcation Starkment soon, since he told that right mouth speaking, left-winger from flop the investor's, aka Air to the DUmb, that he sensed a "'Pecila Muttcation Starkment coming," on the Thursday so-called show.

    Oralthemutt will have a 'Pecial Muttcation Starkment soon, since he told that right mouth speaking, left-winger from flop the investor's, aka Air to the DUmb, that he sensed a "'Pecila Muttcation Starkment coming," on the Thursday so-called show.

    My Bad!!! Sorry for the double post. Had visions of that 'Pecil Muttcation Starkment" that's a coming. Couldn't stop laughing at the thought!

    Sober up.

    Olbermann's show is best watched when drunk. Thankfully for his fans, most of whom are drug-addled, that's their usual state.

    Just call me Scott, what is the "that 'Pecil Muttcation Starkment" that's a coming". It made me laugh and I don't have a clue, other than Peter Stark maybe, what it means?

    Grammie

    Do you mind if I just call you Scott. I don't know how to type.

    John Dean and Miss Huffington Post
    The pair that's much dumber than most
    Moonbat and a felon
    The lies they are sellin'
    Become fact if you're Countdown's host

    I lied when I said that I am a "former right-winger who has evolved into a compassionate and progressive populist".

    The real truth is that I am an opportunist who jumps on whatever bandwagon seems to be winning. When I thought the right wing was the place to be I hung out with Newt Gingrich.

    I lied when I said that I married Michael Huffington because I loved him. Actually I married him because he was rich.

    I plagairized when I "wrote" a biography of Maria Callas. Then I lied about it.

    I did some cutting and pasting of George Clooney comments and put them together as if he had done a post for me. That's kind of a lie. Clooney says I am a liar.

    I was a follower of a weird cult leader named John-Roger. I was one of his closest confidants. Then I denied that I even knew him very well.

    These are just a few of my lies.

    The O'Reilly Factor was a re-run tonight... I wonder by how much this repeat will TROUNCE Meltdown.

    2 to 1?
    3 to 1?
    4 to 1?

    We shouldn't be to hard on Olby who i am sure is feeling, dare I say, a bit "impotent" tonite. I mean the donor who bought Harry Reid's letter for $2 million and Rush matching it, must make Olby feel a bit inadequate with his little check he gave to BJ Clinton for his schools. Olby never could compete in the Majors- in baseball or politics.

    And one of the worst selling items is Keith Olbermoron's book!! Where are the nutroots when u need them.

    Olbermann is an intellectual coward.

    Hey, Joker, haven't seen you in awhile.

    Hope to see you more often.

    Grammie

    Just call me Scott, what is the "that 'Pecil Muttcation Starkment" that's a coming". It made me laugh and I don't have a clue, other than Peter Stark maybe, what it means?

    Grammie

    Do you mind if I just call you Scott. I don't know how to type.

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at October 19, 2007 11:09 PM

    Scott is the name Grammie. Now back to the top of your post. The muttomann stated he "enced" a 'pecial comment" to that right mouth talking left-winger from the "Air 'Merica radio network"..............Gut hurting from laughing soooooo hard....So Monday is going to be that 'Pecial Muttcation Starkment" because Oralomutt, lover of those that can't drive Clinton's like Keithy, want's to protect his Starky! He has to be a good little DemoNUT Kossy Kid!

    Funny the Kiddylovermann makes a funny about Rush and stated "Attacking 12 yr old boys and I'm not talking about Foley or Craig" to a DemonNUT lover, whose hubby got rid of his "panelist" because....Airhead didn't seem to pleased but the Kiddylovermann thought it was funny.....

    Olbermann is an intellectual coward.

    Posted by: The Joker at October 20, 2007 3:17 AM

    Coming from an intellectual dwarf, that means so much.

    You are actually Jeff, who is actually Royal King, who is actually Johnny Dollar, who is actually Rico, aren't you. What I don't understand is: There are slight variations in style, but never substantive changes (undoubtedly for the sake of ideological orthodoxy while shielding yourself from complete transperency by clumsy stylistic tricks), and you always take on male names (when you are not posting anonymously), yet you so clearly have feminine thought patterns and and analytical modes. Why do you never use female names? Is it because you are so desperate for feminine companionshio and nurturing that you think a male name will help? Not a criticism you understand. You have certainly fooled Mrs. Hawkins and Cecelia, and I accept that some people have a need for transgender escape.

    Scott, I went from your amusing comment to the PARANOID CHICKEN BLOGGER right after you.

    Who needs KO to prove their, how should I put this, tenuous grasp on reality.

    Unless one of them took a lot of smart pills, you do remember that joke, this is THE FLUCKER!

    It is absolutely reassuring to know that in a constantly changing world that THE FLUCKERS of this world never change.

    Grammie

    Pot and kettle old woman. Pot and kettle.

    I am absolutely overwhelmed by this Chicken Blogger's originality!

    Sit down, take a few deep breaths and calm yourself before you read Chicken Blogger's words of absolutely original wisdom:

    Prepare yourself b/c here it comes:

    "Pot and kettle old woman. Pot and kettle.
    Posted by: at October 20, 2007 5:47 AM "

    I don't think that Algore felt more than I did when I first realized that I was the inspiration for such wisdom.

    Grammie

    With regard to Rush, the demagoguery of the SCHIP debate just after the democrat's demogoguery with "phoney soldiers" only shows what the left has to do to move their policy debate....

    Emotionalism and manipulation.

    I would hope those rational people would see that people such as Olbermann are attempting to replace calm, rational policy discussion with something petty and self-serving. The rancor and hatred displayed by Olbermann this week over the very logical and correct assessments of the families being used by the politicians to force a valid policy discussion into the realm of Oprah and Dr. Phil is a dangerous thing. Calling your opposition "creatures" simply because they point out the facts about recipients of government welfare dollars is a sad attribute....and Olbermann has dehumanized "the right" before.

    It is obvious by accurate polling that the majority of The American people do not want upper middle class parents expecting 100% government support for their children's healthcare and expect people to be vetted and expected to carry their fair share and be responsible adults....This means pursuing gainful employment that meets the needs of the lifestyle one desires....3 late model automobiles, commercial and remodeled residential properties, and private schooling for 4 children is all nice while you try to have your own business.....but what about the essentials first, like health insurance for your children?.....Two able-bodied adults in this good economy....one can find a job that includes health insurance.

    Rush showed that private initiative can be successful....IN ONLY 4 DAYS!.....he raised over 4 MILLION dollars....Olbermann's yearly salary.....

    And what does the left say?.....The government can meet all of your needs, America.....Well it has always failed and there is proof all around us from this promise of the 1960's Great Society.....government is best when it governs least and people take personal initiative to provide for themselves and their children.

    Congratulations to Rush for turning The Democrat's pathetic demogoguery into a 4 million dollar payday for a great organiztion that helps really needy people.....The government cannot serve this function well and is always a wasteful and manipulated fool.....Private organizations and the individual is the right and proven way to meet the needs of the needy with the government ready to serve ONLY as a last resort.....not the first.

    4 million in the biggest auction for a charity EVER on eBay MAKES Rush serious, mental midget....just because it frosts nuts like you and the low-ratings getter Olbermann that Limbaugh has such a powerful following is not my problem.

    Even your pathetic ruling class leader, Harry Reid, had to thank Rush yesterday on floor of The US Senate! He, he, he.....He can't get legislation passed that actually quiets his radical fringe base made up of people like you and Loin, but he can send a stern letter to an radio executive that is turned AGINST him and your other leftist, fraudulant leaders to raise 4 MILLION dollars for a worthy organization!

    You are so funny, MM.....how about that war funding?....CUT THE FUNDS, GET THE TROOPS HOME NOW!.....THE WAR IS LOST, IMMORAL AND CREATING MORE TERRORISTS!

    IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY!.....SAVE THE REPUBLIC FROM THE DICTATORS!....THEY GET AMUSEMENT FROM PEOPLE DYING IN IRAQ!....THEY ARE TAKING AWAY OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!.....THEY ARE EVIL!!!!!!!

    he, he, he.....you and your ilk are pathetic!

    Not likely, O'Lielly....Rush makes too much money for his advertisers and we still are a free market.....a free market that insures the free exchange of ideas.....

    You want to end this great American market that has served us so well?

    I can't find who bought Rush's letter on Ebay. Scaiffe? Murdoch?


    Big fucking deal, Phari-cee, this boondoggle only illustrates how democracy has been swamped by wealth in this country. For a measly four-million bucks one unnamed Daddy Warbucks and one overpaid mouthpiece buy time and PR against mounting negative public opinion.

    This is Phari-cee's ideal of social justice through charity - by ostentatiously handing back miniscule percentages of the loot they strip frok society, the extortionist oligarchs clam their responisbilities are more than accounted for, and simultaneously place themselves on pedastals of strained philanthropy.

    Why,

    I like answering questions, so I will do so.

    So, Cee..is the insurgency in their last throes?

    The surge appears to be working. Bush should have done this four years ago. Do you hope the surge is in its last throes?

    How many countries are fighting in Iraq?

    I don't give a fuck how many countries are fighting in Iraq. Do you give a fuck how many countries went into Kosovo with us? How many fucking countries are fighting in Darfur?

    If oil is going to pay for this war...when will it start?

    From day one, I wish. If that were the fact, would you be pleased?

    How come it's still costing us billions a week?

    Because Bush is spending money on the wrong things. How much will Hillary Health care cost, and is no price for that too high for you?

    Wasn't this war going to only last WEEKS?

    Bush has been pussyfooting around. But had he taken care of business in a few weeks you would have been so enraged that you would have hikacked a jet airliner and crashed it into a skyscraper.

    Were you guys wrong?

    No, we weren't wrong. Every bad boy in the Muslim world must be taken down. There is no way we will win the War Against Islamic Terror without doing so. How did you think we were going to win? Did you ever want us to win?

    Were you wrong about EVERYTHING?

    No, we are right that it is good for Iraq, good for the middle east, good for the world, and good for the USA if Iraq joins the modern world by becoming a successful democracy.

    What side are you on, Dumb Fuck?

    SLoB, the buyer was Mommy Warbucks (and Rush matched the bid). Try keeping up with current events. Oh, I forgot - you only read the hate and misinformation spewed by blue blogs.

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_101907/content/01125110.guest.html

    Whenever Olbermann is compared to O'Reily or Rush, you will always find the someone in the MSM asserting Countdown is a "real" newscasts:

    While Olbermann’s attacks on O’Reilly are meant to generate “publicity and promotion, and to get under O’Reilly’s skin,” Andrew Tyndall, publisher of Tyndallreport.com said that Countdown is not merely a liberal, “blue-state version” of O’Reilly

    “With O’Reilly, there’s very little of the show that’s not O’Reilly, whereas with Olbermann, he’s an anchor of a news show,” Tyndall said. “Basically, it’s the news with attitude, but it’s still the news.”

    http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6493018.html

    Olbermann hosts "Harry Potter fest where JK Rowlings announces Dumbledore is gay:

    Responding to a question from a child about Dumbledore's love life, Rowling hesitated and then revealed, "I always saw Dumbledore as gay."

    When the line, snaking around the block, began moving at 6:30, it moved fast. By 7:00 everyone was seated, the red-jacketed ushers were shushing and closing the box doors, and the event host, MSNBC news anchor Keith Olbermann, took the stage. But not center stage, which was dominated by an enormous, velvet-upholstered, carved wooden chair — a throne, really — planted on a Persian carpet. Gesturing to it, Olbermann joked, "That's not sufficient for someone who'll be signing that many copies" — a reference to the fact that, after the reading, Rowling would be signing a copy of Hallows for every single sweepstakes winner.

    The crowd was polite to Olbermann, but when a smiling Rowling finally strode on stage, perfectly blonded and coiffed, fingernails shellacked to a brilliant red, stilettos clicking, they went absolutely mad, screaming, jumping to their feet, even crying.

    http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2007/10/rowling-outs-du.html

    Please Proud Liberal.....your post is verbatim demogogue pablum from the leftist ruling class.

    Middle-class American children......tens of millions of them, are being responsibly cared for by those responsible to do so....their parents. These fine Americans get up and work for their compensation like they have been doing for millenia to provide for the necessities....including the uncertain future we all face when medical disease occurs.

    You and the left want to end the liberty that all yearn for by using fear of the future and say, "well, you may need help with a medical emergency....lets have the federal government supply that need" Why does it need to come to that? Why do productive, healthy and capable adults need to cede their responisbility to a faceless, uncaring system in order to feel secure? I would rather earn this compensation and feel the satisfaction of provding for my family and only use such hand-outs when I am incapable of doing so.

    That is how far away the fringe is now....using demogoguery, fear of the future and children to advance a socialist agenda. It is morally wrong to produce generations incapable of self-sufficiency.....giving the fish as opposed to teaching the person how to fish.....That is the democrat's plan and it is wrong.

    Sorry, proud liberal....you are wrong to assume your way to run people's lives is better than allowing them to choose how to live and then actually live with those choices.....Children are a gift and caring for them a grave and great responsibility that usually brings out the best in people.....you want to take that away and make children the ward of the state!

    And Missing America posts even more lies and propaganda.....please show me proof that it was the intent of Limbaugh to "make fun of" or insult anyone. Moral outrage like your's is staged and created instead of taking the time and committing the hard work to defend a policy or worldview. Rational and logical debate is cast aside as you wallow in self-pity and outrage over an insult that was never intended or even implied.

    That's fine Proud Liberal....playing to people's fears of losing their lifestyle is a moral choice many politicians choose and they may indeed reap the power benefits of doing so....it may even lead to a single payor system of healthcare delivery that the fringe left wants.....

    I do not support giving away my liberty and freedom to raise my family to a central state. My way is what the founders intended and is the fundamental point of power that has been and will be taken advantage of by ideologues like yourself. The US Constitution enumerates my rights as an indivdual and The Declaration of Independence cites these rights as inherant in my creation from The Creator. Until such time as these grand ideals are no longer protected, I exercise my right to be a free person to choose how I teach, raise and provide for my family, while others choose to give up their rights and responsibilities based on fear and greed is the way they lose their liberty.....I will not endorse such tactics and policies.

    Give the person a fish versus teaching them how to fish......a very clear distinction morally, in my opinion.

    "I have two words for you: Michael ( J ) Fox"


    ###
    I have one word for you,

    Demogoguery.

    Limbaugh's "insult" was in the context of the discussion of using the physical disability displayed by Fox's poorly controlled Parkinson's Disease or the side effects from the pharmacologic therapy Fox was being given at the time. Limbaugh's point was that the left was using the image of Fox's tremulous movements to arouse an emotional response in the viewer to demogogue the issue of federal funding of embryonic stem cell research....or, in reality, expansion of immoral human experimentation.

    A rational, logical discussion is impossible if one side is only going to use emotional appeals that have no basis in fact and Limbaugh was right to call the left on their poor and immoral tactics.

    You are doing it now by using profanity towards me when I in no way deserve such vitriol.

    Screaming, "you insulted me," instead of responding with facts, ideas and principle is the immoral tact that tells me your intensions.

    "America wants national healthcare"


    ###
    Proof of this please. And your other unsupported claim would also be of more value if you showed one example of how I have been hypocritical.

    This is PRICELESS......

    "Limbaugh said in a Fox News interview Thursday that the [Senate Democrats'] letter symbolized 'the greatest example' of Congress 'singling out a private citizen for abuse and censorship.

    "On his show Friday, Limbaugh said proceeds from the sale, and a matching $2.1 million from his own pocket, would go to the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation, which provides scholarships to children of Marines or federal law enforcement personnel who were killed while serving their country.

    "The winning bid came from the Maryland-based Eugene B. Casey Foundation, according to the group. The foundation, which lists assets of $294 million in its latest IRS filing, was established by Casey, a real estate developer, and is run primarily by his widow, Betty.

    "The foundation's largest grants during its last fiscal year included $4.9 million to a Bethesda, Md., hospital, $3.5 million to the Washington Opera and $850,000 to the American Arts Network. It also gave $110,000 to the Salvation Army and $100,000 grants to a Washington public television and radio station and Salute America's Heroes, which helps wounded soldiers. There were no reported grants to political organizations.

    "'The Eugene B. Casey Foundation believes freedom of speech is a basic right of every citizen of this country,' the group said in a news release Friday."

    from http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071019/ap_on_re_us/democrats_limbaugh_1


    ###
    Amen! Just think, the modern leftist Democratic Party acting like Joe McCarthy to try to hinder and black-list private citizens based on their ideology!!!!

    Leftist McCarthyism! He, he, he....

    What irony, uh leftists?

    You are actually Jeff, who is actually Royal King, who is actually Johnny Dollar, who is actually Rico, aren't you. What I don't understand is: There are slight variations in style, but never substantive changes (undoubtedly for the sake of ideological orthodoxy while shielding yourself from complete transperency by clumsy stylistic tricks), and you always take on male names (when you are not posting anonymously), yet you so clearly have feminine thought patterns and and analytical modes. Why do you never use female names? Is it because you are so desperate for feminine companionshio and nurturing that you think a male name will help? Not a criticism you understand. You have certainly fooled Mrs. Hawkins and Cecelia, and I accept that some people have a need for transgender escape.

    Posted by: at October 20, 2007 5:08 AM


    Any proof to your delusional babbling? Why do you post under male AND female names? Is that normal?

    When faced with a smear Rush Limbaugh raises and donates over 4 MILLION $$$ to Military and Law enforcement families.

    Liberal democrats like John Edwards and MoveOn.org create FAKE smear campaigns and raise the money off the backs of others and put the money in their own pockets!

    Pathetic Democrats!

    Good point 186....I would also add the Hillary Clinton used Imus and Limbaugh in fund raising efforts while MEDIAMATTERS just loved being named by Limbaugh and asked to comment about the issues....They used the matter for fund raising as well.

    See the difference...The democrats actually feed off the demogoguery in more ways than just their self-inflated, self-created rightousness....They make good money from it all! Even the guff over Michael J Fox served to raise millions for democratic candidates....the left has no shame.

    Please. "War on Christmas", "Petraeus/Betray US", "The left just hates poor George W. Bush",....

    The right is the biggest bunch of whiney-assed, emotionally fragile, bleeding heart fascists this world has ever seen.

    "...whereas with Olbermann, he’s an anchor of a news show,” Tyndall said.

    That's laughable. Olbermann is nothing but a mouthpiece for blue blog moonbats.

    What's really deplorable about Olbermann is that this "journalist" can commit actaul malice by saying that Sen Craig would have sex with a 12 year old boy.

    He knows that the republicans are distancing themselves from this man and he thinks he can say whatever untruths he desires abiut the senator.

    He's a scumbag.

    BJ Clinton had 700,000 copies of his book made and he has not even sold 200,000. I hope he has a fire place. LOL!!!!!

    speaking of BJ...
    I thought this was funny, and you would get a kick out of it.
    I bought some beer, Sweet Water Brewing Co's "Georgia Brown" ale. on the label: "This easy drinkin' back porch brown ale is as smooth as a Bill Clinton apology. Enjoy it with some warm southern hospitality"

    SLOB,

    Does the left not hate Bush?
    Do you not hate him?
    The Petraeus/Betray US add, in effect, called the general a traitor. Did you agree with the add?
    If you side can call people on our side "traitor", can we not do the same to your side?
    Why is the left in a tizzy because we took the last two letters off of the word "Democratic"? Does that not make you all whiney-assed?

    Since you sound like socialist, are you one?
    Which country in the world is the one that does things right, like keeping the coporations in check? Britain in the 1960s? That didn't work, or they would still be doing it.

    We'll do XMAS some other time, dumbass.

    The poll found Americans across party lines willing to make some sacrifice to ensure that every American has access to health insurance. Sixty percent, including 62 percent of independents and 46 percent of Republicans, said they would be willing to pay more in taxes. Half said they would be willing to pay as much as $500 a year more.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/02/washington/02poll.html

    My husband took on a second job when his employer stopped paying 100% medical insurance (dental has never been covered) and the two older children started going to the dentist. How many jobs is he supposed to have so that he can help support everyone else? What is one's fair share?

    The above was from me.

    More from the NYT.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/02/washington/02poll.html

    "Moreover, an overwhelming majority in the current poll said the health care system needed fundamental change or total reorganization, just as they did in the early 1990s, when a deep recession and soaring health care costs galvanized the public and spurred the Clinton drive."

    But now, as then, this concern did not translate into a consensus on what should replace it."

    The article further stated that most people are satisfied with their health care, but were worried about the cost. I don't get how agreeing to pay more money in taxes will allieve their worries about paying more for health care. There is a disconnect.

    Sharon again.

    Sacrifice: Sorry, son. No braces for you. Your bite correction will have to wait until you are older when your jaw will have to be broken in order to correct the problem. Wait until you are 16 and can finance them yourself. lYou need to sacrifice now for the other middle class kids. No piano lessons, kids, until you are old enough to get paper routes so that other middle class parents don't have to figure out a way to pay for their insurance. Soccer? Think of how the costs of that program as well as soccer shoes could contribute toward the insurance of those who make the same or more than we do. That is what God requires. You can't be a cub scout, son, because we have to contribute that tent money to a needy middle class family. That 99 Winstar and 96 Saturn can last at least until you kids graduate high school. Don't plan on us forking out for car insurance when you turn 16. Those middle class families need their new SUV/s! They are just living modestly, after all!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=488004&in_page_id=1774&ct=5

    Half of Britons will be obese by 2050, landmark study warns

    "If current trends continue, by 2050 about 60 per cent of men, 50 per cent of women and 25 per cent of children in the UK will be clinically obese - so fat that their health is in danger. At present around a quarter of adults are obese.

    The effects of this on the nation's health will be devastating. The report expects type 2 diabetes to rise by 70 per cent, strokes to go up by 30 per cent and a 20 per cent rise in coronary disease.

    The rates of certain cancers will also go up.

    The associated chronic health problems will cost an extra £45.5billion a year, more than half the amount of money that goes into the entire NHS at the moment."

    Government funded health care makes a healthier society according to SLOB. Of course, everyone is paying their fair share so it all works out in the end.

    Sharon - does your employer offer health benefits? That's why I kept my job rather than my husband having 2 jobs.

    Check out this interview that Joe Scarborough did with Dan Patrick on Morning Joe.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/
    Dan said Olby was a real team player and Joe and his producer laughed. Then Joe said when Katy went with Keith to ESPN studios to be on the Big Show, a mattress was placed there for them, and Katy was called the Yoko Ono of ESPN. The Keefer's going to be pissed when he hears about this.

    7:10,

    His primary job covers health insurance. The ER used to pay full cost (not dental). Now my husband has to contribute, and as I mentioned, my children are old enough to begin dental care. My son has to have braces to correct his bite before his jaw grows. My husband took a second job after our third baby arrived and he had to start contributions toward health insurance. It has a family deductible of $750 (or it can be met when one member reaches $250), plus co=pays. My husband had a heart attack in 2001 and takes a few medictaions. He has a prescription plan, but that is another expense. BTW, he does not smoke and has always reasonable exercised. His father had a heart attack in his 30's. My son has allergies and is slightly asthmatic and also takes medicine. These all add up. We also homeschool (our choice) so in addition to paying school taxes which our children do not attend, we pay for all educational materials. Except for homeschooling, I doubt if our situation is so drastically different than many families. My husband is busting his tail at his second job to support us as I now type, something he would rather not do. That is after spending most of the day earlier at our children's activities.

    What did Olby & Katy need a mattress for? God knows he can't get it up even with a handful of viagra.

    Huffington post does not tolerate any comment posted by conservatives. Same as Olbermann.

    Rush Limbaugh raised more than two million dollars for the children of service people killed or wounded, then pledged to match the amount out of his own pocket.

    Not bad for a "COMEDIAN"!

    Now we anxiously await Olbermann and the 41 senators who signed on to the smear of the century letter to step up to the plate and put their wallet where their irresponsible mouths were.

    Proud Liberal, if America ever adopts a socialized health care system, tell me, where will Canadians go for proper, timely and inexpensive health care???

    The $4,000,000+ going to a charitable cause came from many people who are morally superior to the disgrace to the name "Jewish" and "Hungarian", namely the traitor, George Soros, who funds garbage piles like MoveOn and MediaMatters.

    Why are you such a dingbat?

    Since you never answer any questions, you really shouldn't be asking any.

    Speaking of comedy, you are pretty much the funniest poster at OW. Of course, it's all unintentional. First of all, your anti-name is a calling card that says "Fuck you" and "I'm unhinged and I don't care who knows it!" So funny! Then your continual childish rants reveal your dingbat form of "Tourrette's syndrome". You post because you are compelled to. I bet you have the feeling that your fingers are typing the words as if by magic. "The words type themselves!" Liberalism is a mental disorder.

    I predict that when Hillary loses to the Republican nominee you will hang yourself, as will many other "progressives". I will laugh my ass off when that happens. And you on the left will be the biggest laughing stocks in human history. I look forward to that day.

    Zogby Poll doesn't have the desire for universal govt. healthcare so overwhelming... Let not pretend that everyone wants a handout in this great country.

    POLL: A total of 35.4 percent of those asked said the federal government should assume the primary responsibility for providing healthcare coverage. Another 30.7 percent said that responsibility belongs to the individual. While 15.1 percent of respondents said they weren't sure, 14.9 percent saw healthcare coverage as the responsibility of employers and 3.9 percent said state and local governments.

    And I repeat on SCHIP debacle- which you democrats like to pin your presidential success in 2008 to...

    GALLUP asked people "if family incomes up to $62,000 (proposed by Democrats) or families under $41,000 (proposed by Bush, without expansion) seems most reasonable criteria for the SCHIP program,

    Bush's plan was chosen 52% to 40%! No wonder you loons are being vague whan you present this expansion. When educated, the public sides with Bush.

    Again- the democrats pander to the dumb and uniformed to advance their flawed healthcare policy.

    Bring on 2008...

    I agree 100% "Missing America," because the water boarding is horrible and disgusting, not to mention playing loud music against my brothers! Who could stand 10 hours straight of Bruce Springstein! It's enough to drive any terrorist crazy!

    And the "illegal wairetapping" of my jihadists merry makers is uncalled for! Just because we could be discussing another 9/11 is NO REASON to be listening to our phone calls!

    We have rights TOO you know!

    Yes, Missing America, it brings tears to my eyes every time I think of the deplorable ways in which this new America has prevented us from any further attacks on it!

    I hope you are right in that most Americans are disgusted by this administration, because it only makes my job easier.

    Long live the American people who care less about their own people, and more about me and my fellow terrorists!

    Allah bless you Missing America, and may you too be lucky enough to kill yourself so that you too can have your fill of virgins!

    I agree 100% "Missing America," because the water boarding is horrible and disgusting, not to mention playing loud music against my brothers! Who could stand 10 hours straight of Bruce Springstein! It's enough to drive any terrorist crazy!

    And the "illegal wairetapping" of my jihadists merry makers is uncalled for! Just because we could be discussing another 9/11 is NO REASON to be listening to our phone calls!

    We have rights TOO you know!

    Yes, Missing America, it brings tears to my eyes every time I think of the deplorable ways in which this new America has prevented us from any further attacks on it!

    I hope you are right in that most Americans are disgusted by this administration, because it only makes my job easier.

    Long live the American people who care less about their own people, and more about me and my fellow terrorists!

    Allah bless you Missing America, and may you too be lucky enough to kill yourself so that you too can have your fill of virgins!

    Rico, quit irritating poor little Bobo. You might push him to the edge again as a week or so ago.

    We will be subjected to DAYS of Ritualistic Worship of THE BOSS,

    Lecture after lecture about the supremacy of THE BOSS over every musician who ever lived.

    Ranting raves that conservatives are barbaric and cultural illiterates incapable of recognizing THE GREATNESS of the THE BOSS.

    As if all of that isn't enough of a cudgel for the hostile angry Bobo to wield he will then give us long Political Reeducation Classes based on The Little Red Book or THE THOUGHTS OF THE BOSS.

    Grammie

    Grammie,

    Thanks for reminding me of Springsteen.

    Why.................

    Bruce Springsteen has made a lot of good rock music, but he is not that important an artist. He did nothing revolutionary; he did not invent any new form of music. His schtick was that he was a "working class" rocker. I like his music. Darkness on the Edge of Town is my favorite album of his. Proove It All Night and Adam Raised A Cain are two of his best songs.

    But Bruce created nothing new. The innovations that created modern rock came in the late 1960s. We talking Cream, Hendrix, the Doors, the Stones, etc. The only rock artist post 1960s to be truly innovative is U2.

    Bruce and the E Street Band are a bunch of phonies, of course. They try way too hard, when they are in concert, to proove that they are having so much fun. It's all an act, of course. They have gone way beyond parody in this regard.

    And it's not very original for a rocker to be on the left. The motto of all rock-n-rollers is "smokin' in the boys room". It's that phony anti-establishment act.

    Why, you must loath Bono because he has hung out with Bush and won't call him names. He's too busy being a grown up.

    I repeat my question to you, Why: How many jobs is my husband supposed to have (and others like us?) Common people do not want to expand S-CHIP as far as that legislation called for. That is why it failed. An overwhelming majority support the program and a reasonable expansion.

    My husband took on a second job when his employer stopped paying 100% medical insurance (dental has never been covered) and the two older children started going to the dentist. How many jobs is he supposed to have so that he can help support everyone else? What is one's fair share?
    Posted by: at October 20, 2007 5:50 PM

    I also repeat my comment about sacrifice:

    Sacrifice: Sorry, son. No braces for you. Your bite correction will have to wait until you are older when your jaw will have to be broken in order to correct the problem. Wait until you are 16 and can finance them yourself. lYou need to sacrifice now for the other middle class kids. No piano lessons, kids, until you are old enough to get paper routes so that other middle class parents don't have to figure out a way to pay for their insurance. Soccer? Think of how the costs of that program as well as soccer shoes could contribute toward the insurance of those who make the same or more than we do. That is what God requires. You can't be a cub scout, son, because we have to contribute that tent money to a needy middle class family. That 99 Winstar and 96 Saturn can last at least until you kids graduate high school. Don't plan on us forking out for car insurance when you turn 16. Those middle class families need their new SUV/s! They are just living modestly, after all!
    Posted by: Sharon at October 20, 2007 6:21 PM

    When little Katy Couric and Valerie Plame do their girl talk thing on 60 minutes tonight I wonder if the name of Richard Armitage will even be mentioned. For those of you who don't remember, Armitage is the one and only person who spilled the beans about Plame to Bob Novak, who printed it.

    Richard Armitage walks the streets a free man, and not a dingbat in America even cares.

    Sharon, I understand much of what you are facing from my personal experience.

    If the Dems do somehow succeed in getting this huge expansion through I would recommend that you jump on the bandwagon the first chance you get.

    The proposed tax to pay for it, which will be woefully inadequate, is sure to be increased quite a bit for two reasons.

    The CBO, based on past performance, anticipates that half of the new enrollees will be those who had private insurance whose parents jumped on the bandwagon to save money. The tax is going to be on private policies which will be even more of an inducement for people to latch on and hold tight.

    A little known feature is that it plans on funding the expansion of eligible solid middle class TWENTY FIVE YEAR OLD CHILDREN by defunding substantially the Medicare Advantage program for the neediest SS folks. This program, which is run through private insurance companies, has been very successful in providing good coverage for less money than Medicare parts A, B, C and D.

    My husband had a similar family history to your husbands. His Dad had his first heart attack before he was even born and died in his late thirties. In fact only two male members of his Dad's family lived past their early forties, my husband and one Uncle. He was rarely able to work and my husband literally grew up barefoot poor (two pairs of shoes a year).

    My husband lived a reasonably (considering his conditions) healthy and functional life until age 67. Modern medicine and drugs are truly miracles. And it sounds like your husband is doing what he needs to help himself.

    Grammie

    Grammie

    Hey Why............

    You want to bring down health care costs? Then let's shoot all of the plaintiffs' lawyers. The John Edwards types, in other words. That would cut health care costs down by at least 50% in an instant.

    But BOBO,

    Richard Armitage was never charged with anything? Why don't you even care about this?

    "I repeat my question to you, Why: How many jobs is my husband supposed to have (and others like us?)"

    If there was affordable ( or national health care) your husband wouldn't HAVE to work two jobs.

    Nice dodge of the question. In the meantime, off to work he goes. National health care is not the answer financially. We may disagree about whether national health care should be a guaranteed right but certainly it is not going to make finances easier.

    I am a democrat of the Casey, Sr. type. If the party returned to that state, I'm there. I come from a blue collar background. If my husband would lose his job because of illness, I would go back to work. Cobra would go into effect. He has some money in a 401K to pay for insurance under Cobra until I got myself established and until he could get back to work. Hippo applies: keep insured and you can't be turned down under a new health care plan. Tort reform is part of the answer for rising health care costs.

    "Proud Liberal, if America ever adopts a socialized health care system, tell me, where will Canadians go for proper, timely and inexpensive health care???
    Posted by: FrankTheTank at October 21, 2007 9:16 AM "

    Quote of the day!

    Grammie

    Grammie,

    Every time I intend to respond in full to you, I get sidetracked here! Let me just say that I admire you and your husband's strength of character for how you handled your health care crises. My husband just turned 40 when he had his heart attack and my second baby was just 7 months old. It is said that when one spouse gets seriously sick, the other does witihn a year. That rang true for me. I got a condition called ITP (low platelets) and was hospitalized 6 months later. Thank God I recovered (although it is possible to have a re-occurrence). My husband knows has me and three children to take care of. He goes to the cardiologist every three months and checks out better than most. He takes a stress test every 2 years and amazes the doctor. My daughter is booting me off the computer to go to the Bella sera site. If any of your grandkids like horses, they'll have to check it out. Bella sera trading cards are sold at your local Walmart! : ) Catch ya later,
    Sharm

    BOBO,

    If somebody is in bad health because they are eating too many Twinkies then don't ask me to pay for it!

    BOBO, you display a shocking lack of understanding below the emotional catch phrases that essentially all say Storm the Bastille and off with the heads of corporate blood suckers.

    "..other than prevent American citizens from paying LESS for their meds by getting them from Canada in an obvious paypack to Big Pharma and their campaign contributions to Bush.
    Posted by: Why don't you think at October 21, 2007 2:47 PM"

    You might want to look into the statistics of the development of new medications @:

    http://www.medical-colleges.net/pharmaceutical4.htm

    The first paragraph:

    "Almost half of the most important global drugs (those approved in the United States, Europe and Japan) developed during 1975-1994 were of US origin, followed by the UK with 14%. Within the last decade, US companies developed 370 new medicines to fight such diseases as cancer, hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, depression, arthritis and a host of other diseases - and that's just a preview of coming attractions."

    Further on in the article:

    "Over the past two decades, the percentage of sales these companies have allocated to R&D has increased from 11.9% in 1980 to an estimated 20.3% in 2000. Meanwhile, the average ratio of R&D to sales for all US industries is less than 4%. Based on corporate tax data compiled by Standard & Poor's Compustat, pharmaceutical manufacturers invest a higher percentage of sales in R&D than virtually any other industry, including high-tech industries such as electronics, aerospace, office equipment (including computers), and automobiles."

    Even further down:

    "Contrary to what many believe, industry - not the US government - is the source of almost all of the new drugs approved in the US. A study of the 196 new drugs approved by the FDA during 1981-1990 showed that industry was the source of 181 of the drugs (92.4%), academia was the source of seven of the drugs (3.6%), and government was the source of two of the drugs (1%). Government and academic scientists lead the way in basic research about how diseases are caused and develop, while industry leads the way in translating that knowledge into new medicines to help and heal patients."

    Our industrialized nation, the only one without socialized medicine, produces single handed half of all the new therapies to cure and alleviate illness.

    Your answer is to decimate the system that has given us, and the rest of the world, half of modern drug advances b/c it offends your finely honed sense of justice that GWB has contributions from the pharaceutical industry.

    I sincerely hope that your mother never makes a contribution to GWB and you find out about it. :)

    Grammie

    BOBO, why is it so important to you that I share my musical tastes, or lack thereof, with you.

    The entire point is that you are the only one here who wanders off into vitriol and political lectures based on your musical acumen and sophistication. That does conjure up memories for me of the twin sides of modern totalitarism (SP) Fascism and Stalinism.

    I will humor you though. In no particular order a few of my favorites are Mario Lanza, Ray Charles, Glen Miller, Jerry Lee Lewis, THE KING ELVIS, Fats Domino, Johann Strauss, Brahmns, Mozart, The Supremes, The Temptations and Ravel's Bolero.

    So, what do expect to glean from that?

    An essay from you on how my musical taste is further proof of my degeneracy should be amusing at the least.

    Grammie

    BOBO,

    Who was the leaker? Can you say the name?

    Grammie,

    Thank God you didn't say "Lawrence Welk".

    2:29, since Valerie Plame was not covert, it is impossible that she was outed by Novak. The CIA outed her years before David Corn or Bob Novak. I suspect that anyone on the DC cocktail party social circle knew all about her.

    Lawrence who? :)

    Grammie

    Excellent discussion this last 28 hours....The left seems to be the ostrich with it's head in the ground relying on generic polls and fear mongering to make themselves feel superior.

    Thank you benson for pointing out real data regarding America's feelings towards single payor, government run healthcare. The polls cited by demogogues like Proud Liberal and the various anons ignore the fact that a majority of Americans like their care and only want things to be easier....not turned upside down. I do believe that some will keep playing on people's fears and we all may eventually find the support of a majority of people to abandon their liberty and responsibility to provide for themselves and their families....it is not a particularly honorable aspect of human nature.

    And mental midget's arrogance! How I have missed it lately. Did you see the result in Louisiana, MM? An Indian-American with wonderful conservative ideas is going to finally clean up the mess your democrats created that lead to Katrina's devastating impact on the state's citizens.....Being a republican does not automatically mean a defeat, dear MM.
    People vote for other reasons that you fail to realize.

    Do they like the candidate? Do they agree with the candidate? It is rarely about party. Depending on the amount of like/dislike vs. amount of agreement/disagreement, they pull the lever either for or against the candidates. HRC is NOT LIKED by at least 40% of the general population...she will be your candidate in '08 unless something drastic occurs and I predict a very close popular vote in the general election (despite your over-confidence) and perhaps even some shifts in the congress towards the republicans because of Hillary's high negatives.

    Eitherway, there will be no mandate for a radical leftist agenda like you suggest. As you were wrong in 11/06 saying the democrats would totally change Iraq policy ("THE" issue), you will be wrong again about a huge change in 2008. Even Hillary is hedging her bets and making it possible for a President Hillary to do EXACTLY like Bush is doing in Iraq.....You really should not be supporting her because of her expressed Iraq War stand (that is if you were a real man with principle).

    So, how about that war funding, mental midget?....How about those charges of illegality on the part of Bush and Cheney?

    And with regards to Plame....she has a book coming out and most people couldn't care less about her whining or her husband's....they are both democratic political operatives who need a source of income now that their civil suit is languishing.

    And the democrats need a new issue this week for fund raising purposes since Rush Limbaugh totally turned things around on them there and SCHIP is going to either need compromise or it will expire.

    Keep on thinking you got the world by the tail, mental midget....you will be shown to be wrong again like you have been previously on this board time after time....

    And this is my post today, the 1,635th day since the declaration of Mission Accomplished in Iraq.....

    I am cee, good night and good luck.

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration's policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    "Lefties: Leave these pathetic drowning rats alone to stew in each other's juices. Get yourselves out in the street and fight this criminal administration in ways that really mean something, and that are noted by more than a handful of keyboard heroes!" Sir Loin of Beef

    "American liberals need to face these truths: The demand for self-government was and remains strong in Iraq despite all our mistakes and the violent efforts of al Qaeda, Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias to disrupt it." DEMOCRAT Bob Kerrey

    "If we end up saying that because these people are committing these acts of terrorism in Iraq or Afghanistan, that we shouldn't have done the removal of Saddam or the removal of the Taliban, then we are making a fundamental mistake about our own future, about security, about the values we should be defending in the world." TONY BLAIR

    "You can't bring the troops home if you give George Bush $100 billion to wage this war. You're not supporting them. You're keeping them in harm's way." CINDY SHEEHAN

    "There is no doubt ... that Al Qaeda is operating in Iraq. There is no doubt that we've had to take very strong measures against them. And there is no doubt that the Iraqi security forces have got to be strong enough to be able to withstand not just the violence that has been between the Sunni and the Shia population and the Sunni insurgency, but also Al Qaeda itself." GORDON BROWN

    "People of America: the world is following your news in regards to your invasion of Iraq, for people have recently come to know that, after several years of tragedies of this war, the vast majority of you want it stopped. Thus, you elected the Democratic Party for this purpose, but the Democrats haven't made a move worth mentioning. On the contrary, they continue to agree to the spending of tens of billions to continue the killing and war there." OSAMA BIN LADEN

    "Al Qaeda really hurt us, but not as much as Rupert Murdoch has hurt us, particularly in the case of Fox News. Fox News is worse than Al Qaeda--worse for our society. It's as dangerous as the Ku Klux Klan ever was."
    KEITH OLBERMANN

    "Thinking such as your's is a cancer on our nation that needs to be cut out." MIKE posted 10/4/07 7:02PM


    Cee,

    "Thinking such as your's is a cancer on our nation that needs to be cut out." MIKE posted 10/4/07 7:02PM

    Mike was sounding a little unhinged there!

    Rico, when was Mikey not unhinged? :)

    Grammie

    Grammie,

    They all are, as they demonstrate every day.

    Why don't you think,
    Olbermann is a supporter of Islam.
    He's a loser and full of it!

    Why are you such a dingbat?

    The leaker's name is ________________.

    Fill in the blank, dumbasss.

    Yes! Why don't you think, keep up the good work, as I need my fellow jihadists to keep ripping the American president and his dog followers!

    The president is a liar, and must be dealt with at all costs!

    Thank Allah almighty for you and your kind, and with His help my strongest ally in the fight against democracy Hillary will be the next president of your country!

    She will make my fight much easier, and Allah willing, will pave the way for non-stop attacks daily in the imperialistic devil worshipping country these republicans love.

    Death to all defenders of this hateful country, and power to those who dare to stand up and fight against it!

    Liberals of the world unite and destroy all that is good about America, and soon we can all do away with these pests who are fighting for ones country!

    Peace to you Why don't you think, and when the final revelation has come, and the infidels defeated, you will be the first I will call to give his life for our cause, as nobody has done it as well as you!

    72 virgins await you my brother, and none more deserving than you, as you have taught me things I never dreamed possible.

    May Allah bless you for all your treachery!

    In a little over a year (Allah willing!) my prayers will be answered, and the undermining of America will be complete when Hillary is sworn in!!!

    BOBO, in what century did your Mom live and gain her insight re which party brought the US into war:

    "She has always said, "Once a republican gets in the White House, a war is soon to follow ! "

    WW I - Democrat President Wilson

    WW II - Democrat President FDR

    Korean War - Democrat President Truman.

    Vietnam War - Democrat presidents FDR, Truman, Kennedy and Johnson, who brought in the big guns. Republican Eisenhower was a bit player in this conflict.

    Before Gulf War One and the War on Terror under Republican presidents GWHB and GWB Abraham Lincoln was the last Republican President to bring us into a war.

    Are you saying that your Mom and you would have never supported Republicans b/c of the Civil War that ended slavery in our country?

    BOBO, you are a puzzle. Or maybe not. Whatever sounds good seems to be an irresitable magnet for you.

    Grammie

    OBL, your arguments have attracted my soul.

    I do have one question that has always puzzled me.

    When my husband and sons commit suicide in Jihad and go to their 72 virgins how does it work.

    I mean, 72 virgins for my randy bunch would only last few days.

    Does Allah provide an infinite number of virgins or will they be in despair for eternity shortly after their ecstasy?

    I only ask b/c I am tired of feigning headaches and other maladies, yet I still follow Mohammad and submit to the men who control me.

    Any assurance at all from you and I will strap the bombs on them myself and throw them into a crowd, hopefully of young mothers, infants and children.

    Allah Akbar!

    Grammie

    Mr. Steyn correctly sums up why the resistance on SCHIP is about policy and not how republicans hate children.....

    "Last Thursday, Nancy Pelosi, as is the fashion, used the phrase 'the children' like some twitchy verbal tic, a kind of Democrat Tourette’s syndrome: 'This is a discussion about America’s children … We could establish ourselves as the children’s Congress … Come forward on behalf of the children … I tried to do that when I was sworn in as speaker surrounded by children. It was a spontaneous moment, but it was one that was clear in its message: we are gaveling this House to order on behalf of the children.'

    "Etc. So what is the best thing America could do 'for the children'? Well, it could try not to make the same mistake as most of the rest of the Western world and avoid bequeathing the next generation a system of unsustainable entitlements that turns the entire nation into a giant Ponzi scheme…

    "…I’m in favor of tax credits for child health care, and Health Savings Accounts for adults, and any other reform that emphasizes the citizen’s responsibility to himself and his dependants. But middle-class entitlement creep would be wrong even if was affordable, even if Bill Gates wrote a check to cover it every month: it turns free-born citizens into enervated wards of the Nanny State. As Gerald Ford likes to say when trying to ingratiate himself with conservative audiences, 'A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have.' But there’s an intermediate stage: A government big enough to give you everything you want isn’t big enough to get you to give any of it back. As I point out in my book, nothing makes a citizen more selfish than socially equitable communitarianism: Once a fellow’s enjoying the fruits of Euro-style entitlements, he couldn’t give a hoot about the general societal interest; he’s got his, and who cares if it’s going to bankrupt the state a generation hence?

    "That’s the real 'war on children': in Europe, it’s killing their future. Don’t make the same mistake here."

    from http://michellemalkin.com/2007/10/21/steyn-the-real-war-on-children/


    ###
    True...and Ford's quote is true and cogent to the discussion on this upper-middle-class entitlement discussion.....

    "A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have."

    Programs like the expanded SCHIP and most of what the democrats want to impose on America is against the basic and libertarian ideals of the founders and hence.....anti-American.

    A healthy, economically stable, and well-educated population is a gift that a society gives to itself.

    A marginalized, desperate, and disenfranchised underclass is what right-wing oligarchs give to themselves.

    Phari-cee; pampered, self-congratulatory Free-market fundies like yourself wouldn't know a boot-strap if you found it in your foie gras.

    You really do not know me, Loin. I imagine you believe I drive a late model European made vehice on the weekdays and another, more sporty one on the weekends while my wife has her own late model gas guzzler to carry around our child in luxury. You also think I live in a large home that has appreciated 10-fold. Nope, sorry, I am not The Frosts....my disposable income goes into savings and insurance to be prepared for exactly what happened to them....potential trouble in a future that is always uncertain.

    My lower-middle class parents taught me such values....not to rely on the government for my personal basic needs and to be as self-sufficient as much possible....even in hard times. My depression era grandmother who raised two young girls after a divorce in the 1940's with NO government help taught me the pride one can have when faced with challenge.

    Sorry Loin, I am a fried bologna and Hellman's Mayo kinda-guy....goose liver is gamey and pricy. I hope I never see my child or wife suffer the injuries The Frosts faced. I also hope I never succumb to the the hopeless fear they and many like them in over-spent, over-indebted, over-housed, over-indulged, under-saving, under-insured middle-class America now allow themselves to wallow in....giving up their liberty to a faceless and unaccountable government beurocracy that will only grow larger and more despotic, in order to live a life-style not fitting with their income and family needs.

    Wow, Phari-cee, you had a "depression-era grandmother"? How many Americans can say that!!

    It sounds, however - from your previous crowing regarding your giant house, multiple vehicles, and how these accoutrements are even more essential to your family than would be living in a healthy society - that the only depression-era values you have internalized involve spitting on food in order to claim it as yours.

    ....giving up their liberty to a faceless and unaccountable government beurocracy that will only grow larger and more despotic, in order to live a life-style not fitting with their income and family needs.

    Posted by: cee at October 22, 2007 8:46 AM


    This is the crux of the argument that comes from your stupid and lazy side, Phari-cee. If people would put half the effort into fulfilling their constitutional roles as the source of political power in our system as they put into whining about "government controling our lives" they would realize that they control their government.

    The difference in our positons is that Phari-cee believes that God set into motion a big Monopoly game out of which His Will shall be realized; of course since Phari-cee is one of the current winner of that game this seems to be the most natural thing in the world to him...

    I believe that we must all strive to make our incredibly complex society a viable and equitable enterprise or else it will go to crap. This view has been ridiculed by Phari-cee in the past as Stalinist hubris, which it is not; and all he has to counter it with is his casting of christianist free-market divining bones.

    SLOB,

    So:

    A healthy, economically stable, and well-educated population is a gift that a society gives to itself.

    A marginalized, desperate, and disenfranchised underclass is what right-wing oligarchs give to themselves.

    ???

    What are you saying we have now, the first one or the second one? Since the educational system in this country is run by dingbat leftist teachers, administrators, and book publishers, it's their educational system.

    Perhaps it is time for you to bite the bullet and get that hysterectomy that you so obviously require. Isn't Cee a medical doctor or something? Perhaps, as a compassionate conservative, he can give you a freebee.

    "Since the educational system in this country is run by dingbat leftist teachers, administrators, and book publishers, it's their educational system."


    That's rigjht, Douchebag, all those powerful lefty public school teachers are behind their miserable starting salaries and inadequate raise schedule; they orchestrated the obscenely high and unworkable 35:1 student: teacher ratio; they themselves have insisted that they be responsible for buying with their own money the clocks, overhead projectors, pencils, and even cooling-fans that make their jobs possible and learning conditions bearable.

    No, Rico, its the right-wing emphasis on property taxes funding local schools that retains as shit-holes most of our country's school districts; while the children of white managers and politicians in select suburbs enjoy the benefits and self-respect that come with at least adequately-funded educations.

    SLOB,

    Don't be such a dumbass. The leftist dingbat teachers, administrators, and textbook publishers don't even care if the students learn readin', writin', and cipherin' anymore. They give the kid gold star for spelling the word wrong. They would rather teach an eight year old how it' perfectly alright for Ed to butt fuck Fred, than to make sure that little Jason and Megan can read. Of course, teaching by rote is so passe. So what that the old methods always worked, and the new ones do not? It's not the result that counts, it's the path you use.

    If you think the main problem in our schools today is a lack of money then you are a fool.

    Do you have kids? Have you ever talked with their teachers?

    No, you just listen to Gibson, Cavuto, and Hannity for your appocalyptic impression of our education system. You are delusional and a waste of time.

    Loin..."miserable starting salaries and inadequate raise schedule" BULLSHIT, with a capital B.

    My wife is a public school teacher who works in one of the worst school districts in New York. Her salary is $75,000 a year, because besides getting student loans to suppliment her education, she has incentives to go to school during the summer months to further her education.

    She does have to pay for "pencils and other basic needs for the students"(not projectors, nor clocks) totaling about $100 for the year.

    This "pittance" that you say she works for is more than most earn in a year, and she did it all with her education. In other words she got it with loans from the government not charity.

    And, she decided to be a teacher when she was in her 30's. Got her bachelor degree followed by her master's. $60,000 in student loans which she has already paid off (she is now 40), and in no way is she suffering.

    I, on the other hand have not been as fortunate, but then again I didn't pursue a career of her choice, nor did I get my master's.

    And, she will tell you that the "shit-holes" of our school districts do NOT come from the administration, but from the parents themselves, who do not seek to help their children.

    The bulk of our taxes goes for funding public schools, and her biggest fear is that she will have to pay even more taxes if a democratic president is elected.

    Watch her try to connect with the parents every night when she gets home, and is dealt with fake or wrong phone numbers, as these parents don't give a crap about their kids.

    See her on any parent teachers night, where maybe 2 to 3 parents show up out of her class of 30.

    Yet, on one occasion another teacher was reprimanded severely (with protests outside the school from these same parents that couldn't be found when my wife tried to contact them) because she had the "nerve" to actually tell a student that his behavior in school was uncontrollable, and that he shouldn't be in school.

    Horrors! went the New York papers (especially the Times of course), while this teacher was suspended for doing her job not to mention the humiliation she had to bear for telling the truth.

    The school system could not be doing better, but my wife feels it is a losing battle when the parents don't give a crap about their kids.

    Man, you truly cannot see the forest because of the trees, and your blind statements of this nature just go on and on.

    35 kids in a classroom? Not very likely. In most districts these days, 20 or 25 kids is the max per classroom. I don't know where you're getting your data from, but since you think Olbermann is a valid newssource, God only knows what you think is a reliable source concerning education but once again, and always, dear "Beef" you are dead wrong.

    My wife is now home with our 2 year-old but was a public school teacher in a suburb of New Yor city for 4 years...She earned a lower salary than wolverine's wife does but she only has a BA. She had the same complaints about her position, the parents. In addition, she was a special ed teacher and actually most of her time outside the classroom was not spent in preparing for her lessons, it was spent on paperwork so that proper documentation could be maintained.....Why?....the fear of lawsuits. The parents of special needs children commonly resort to lawsuits to either obtain damages because of their children's lack of progress or to prod districts to provide expensive special services....The cost of maintaining records, lawyers and "specialists" to combat this force in our society mirrors what my industry, medical care, goes through.

    A retired superintendant in my practice said in his 60 year career, the most damaging thing he has seen is the two types of parents that have emerged....

    The majority.....indifferent parent
    The damaging minority.....the suing parent

    NOT lack of money....in fact he says his budgets over the 30 years he was superintendent ALWAYS increased.

    He reports that most of his time the last 10 years of his position was meeting with lawyers preparing for law suits or covering reports or creating programs in avoidance of lawsuits.

    Also, my wife was treated GREAT because of her union contract. She had full compensation through half her pregnancy with the disctrict continuing benefits. If she were to return and retire...she gets full medical after retirement for herself and me for the rest of our lives....The salaries of public school teachers is ONLY ONE part of their compensation....they have great healthcare, retirement and job security benefits hardly met in the private sector. These are costly but of course Loin doesn't want to discuss that!

    BOBO, you have claimed to be a college professor. Recently you indicated that you are a professor at Rutgers University, a fine institution. Or so I thought. :)

    You do not seem capable of following a logical argument without careening off into wild and emotional excesses.

    Let me lay this out for you in a very simplified way that an intelligent child could follow.

    You contend that the US is the only industrialized nation (I don't dispute that) without socialized medicine.

    I have given a citation that the US develops 50% of all new pharmaceutical advances in the world.

    I have given a citation that Pharmaceutical companies in the US put back an astounding 20% into R&D, compared to a 4% average nation wide.

    I have given a citation that private industry accounts for 90+% of all new drugs, with government accounting for 1%.

    Your response is:

    "Grammie goes off on her wide tangent on global drugs and % of sales..etc etc...trying to obliterate the basic point that Americans should have the CHOICE ...the ability...to buy their meds from Canada...which are the same exact meds our pharmaseutical companies sell but are 1/5 the price."

    Based on that statement you either want US drug companies to do the same thing with 20% of the revenue they now have or you are willing to seriously restrict the number of new therapies developed to reach some subsidized holy grail of medicine.

    Let me try to make this simple for you again. The figure $100 will represent the current annual revenue. Drug companies plow 20% (or $20 per annum) into R&D as opposed to a national average of 4% (or $4 per annum).

    Using your 4/5, or 80% reduction in revenue ("exact meds our pharmaseutical companies sell but are 1/5 the price.") drug companies will now make in total revenue what they invested previously in R&D. Their revenue will drop to $20 per annum and assuming they can maintain the percentage spent on R&D now that dollar figure will drop to $4 per annum.

    That ought to work well.

    Grammie

    OK, Wolverine; I admit I know nothing of NYC. Perhaps in that context Rico is right that your wife and her fellow Stalinist educators have feathered their nests adequately, but still fail to teach our children.

    In Ohio, however, where decades of Republican administration have erected a system which the supreme court has declared unconstitutional (school districts funded by local property taxes), but which has yet to be corrected, teachers start at 28 grand a year, and I have personally seen all of the persistent conditions I described.

    SLOB,

    I want to direct you to my earlier comment on this thread in view of your belief that nationalized health care leads to a healthier society.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=488004&in_page_id=1774&ct=5

    Half of Britons will be obese by 2050, landmark study warns

    "If current trends continue, by 2050 about 60 per cent of men, 50 per cent of women and 25 per cent of children in the UK will be clinically obese - so fat that their health is in danger. At present around a quarter of adults are obese.

    The effects of this on the nation's health will be devastating. The report expects type 2 diabetes to rise by 70 per cent, strokes to go up by 30 per cent and a 20 per cent rise in coronary disease.

    The rates of certain cancers will also go up.

    The associated chronic health problems will cost an extra £45.5billion a year, more than half the amount of money that goes into the entire NHS at the moment."

    Government funded health care makes a healthier society according to SLOB. Of course, everyone is paying their fair share so it all works out in the end.
    Posted by: Sharon at October 20, 2007 6:37 PM

    I believe in tort reform.

    Next, I taught in a large school system in a "right to work" state (striking is illegal). I now live in a state that has a strong union and although teachers complain, they have much better teaching conditions. They went on strike last year, mainly because they were unhappy with their payment portion of insurance. I don't teach at the moment. Teaching conditions vary from locality to locality. I don't doubt what you said about Ohio. The school in which I taught was supposed to be equal to every other school in the system, but that was not the case at all. It was comprised of 80% at risk students, mostly African American. The year I left, the football team won the state championship and the track team always took top state honors. But the kids in general don't go to college. Within the same school system, a high school in the more affluent area had its own weather station. A friend of mine taught science first at the "poor" school and then in the affluent school with the weather station. You get the picture. Nonetheless, the problem with education goes beyond money. The point about the parents is dead on: apathy on the one hand, interference on the other. It also involves the breakdown of the family and family life.

    There is much anger over property taxes for school systems. Those who don't own property are educated on the property owners' dollar, whether they have children or not and whether those children attend public school or not. One of the big local issues where I live is property taxes.

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