Buy Text-Link-Ads here
Recent Comments

    follow OlbyWatch on Twitter

    In

    John Gibson Welcomes Back the Infamous, Deplorable Keith Olbermann

    tonyome wrote: <a href="http://twitchy.com/2014/07/28/voxs-laughable-praise-of-keith-olber... [more](11)

    In

    Welcome Back, Olby!

    syvyn11 wrote: <a href="http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/keith-olbermann-reviving-worst... [more](9)

    In

    Former Obama Support/Donor Releases Song Supporting Romney/Ryan: "We'll Take It Back Again" by Kyle Tucker

    syvyn11 wrote: @philly I don't see that happening. ESPN has turned hyper left in recent... [more](64)

    In

    Blue-Blog-a-Palooza: Ann Romney Edition!

    djthereplay wrote: By mkdawuss on August 29, 2012 6:17 PM Will John Gibson be having a "Red-B... [more](4)

    In

    No Joy in Kosville...Mighty Olby Has Struck Out

    djwolf76 wrote: "But the FOX-GOP relationship (which is far more distinguished and prevalen... [more](23)

    KO Mini Blog



    What's in the Olbermann Flood Feed?
    Subscribe to Olbermann Flood Feed:
    RSS/XML

    KO Countdown Clock


    Warning: mktime() [function.mktime]: It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected 'America/New_York' for 'EDT/-4.0/DST' instead in /home/owatch/www/www.olbermannwatch.com/docs/countdown.php on line 5
    KO's new contract with MSNBC ends in...
    0 days 0 hours 0 minutes

    OlbermannWatch.com "My Faves" Set

    OlbermannWatch.com Favorited Photos from other Flickr Users

    Got OlbyPhotos? See some on Flickr? DO NOT email us. Send us a FlickrMail instead. Include a link to the photo. If we like the photo you will see it displayed in the Olby Flickr Flood above.

    New to Flickr? Sign up for a FREE Flickr account!


    Got some OlbyVideo? See some on YouTube? DO NOT email us. Send us a YouTube Messages instead. Include a link to the video. If we like the video you will see it displayed in our favorites list in our YouTube page.

    New to YouTube? Sign up for a FREE YouTube account!

    Red Meat Blog
    Keith Olbermann Quotes
    Countdown Staff Writers

    If they're not on Keith's payroll...

    ...they should be...

    Crooks & Liars
    Daily Kos
    Eschaton
    Huffington Post
    Media Matters for America
    MyDD
    News Corpse
    No Quarter
    Raw Story
    Talking Points Memo
    Think Progress
    TVNewser
    Keith Lovers

    MSNBC's Countdown
    Bloggerman
    MSNBC Transcripts
    MSNBC Group at MSN

    Drinking with Keith Olbermann
    Either Relevant or True
    KeithOlbermann.org
    Keith Olbermann is Evil
    Olbermann Nation
    Olbermann.org
    Thank You, Keith Olbermann

    Don't Be Such A Douche
    Eyes on Fox
    Liberal Talk Radio
    Oliver Willis
    Sweet Jesus I Hate Bill O'Reilly

    Anonymous Rat
    For This Relief Much Thanks
    Watching Olbermann Watch

    Keith Olbermann Fanlisting Site I
    Keith Olbermann Fanlisting Site II
    Keith Olbermann Links
    Olberfans
    Sports Center Altar
    Nothing for Everyone

    Democratic Underground KO Forum
    Television Without Pity KO Forum
    Loony KO Forum (old)
    Loony KO Forum (new)
    Olberfans Forum (old)
    Olberfans Forum (new)
    Keith Watchers

    186k per second
    Ace of Spades HQ
    Cable Gamer
    Dean's World
    Doug Ross@Journal
    Extreme Mortman
    Fire Keith Olbermann
    Hot Air
    Inside Cable News
    Instapundit
    Jawa Report
    Johnny Dollar's Place
    Just One Minute
    Little Green Footballs
    Mark Levin
    Media Research Center
    Moonbattery.com
    Moorelies
    National Review Media Blog
    Narcissistic Views
    Newsbusters
    Pat Campbell Show
    Radio Equalizer
    Rathergate
    Riehl World View
    Sister Toldjah
    Toys in the Attic
    Webloggin
    The Dark Side of Keith Olbermann
    World According to Carl

    Thanks for the blogroll link!

    Age of Treason
    Bane Rants
    The Blue Site
    Cabal of Doom-De Oppresso Libre
    Chuckoblog
    Conservative Blog Therapy
    Conservathink
    Country Store
    Does Anyone Agree?
    The Drunkablog!
    Eclipse Ramblings
    If I were President of USA
    I'll Lay Down My Glasses
    Instrumental Rationality
    JasonPye.com
    Kevin Dayhoff
    Last Train Out Of Hell
    Leaning Straight Up
    Limestone Roof
    Mein BlogoVault
    NostraBlogAss
    Peacerose Journal
    The Politics of CP
    Public Secrets: from the files of the Irishspy
    Rat Chat
    Return of the Conservatives
    The Right Place
    Rhymes with Right
    seanrobins.com
    Six Meat Buffet
    Sports and Stuff
    Stout Republican
    Stuck On Stupid
    Things I H8
    TruthGuys
    Verum Serum
    WildWeasel

    Friends of OlbyWatch

    Aaron Barnhart
    Eric Deggans
    Jason Clarke
    Ron Coleman
    Victria Zdrok
    Keith Resources

    Google News: Keith Olbermann
    Feedster: Keith Olbermann
    Technorati: Keith Olbermann
    Wikipedia: Keith Olbermann
    Wikipedia: Countdown
    Wikiality: Keith Olbermann
    Keith Olbermann Quotes on Jossip
    Keith Olbermann Photos
    NNDB Olbermann Page
    IMDB Olbermann Page
    Countdown Guest Listing & Transcripts
    Olbermann Watch FAQ
    List of Politics on Countdown (by party)
    Mark Levin's Keith Overbite Page
    Keith Olbermann's Diary at Daily Kos
    Olbermann Watch in the News

    Houston Chronicle
    Playboy
    The Journal News
    National Review
    San Antonio Express
    The Hollywood Reporter
    The Journal News
    Los Angeles Times
    American Journalism Review
    Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
    St. Petersburg Times
    Kansas City Star
    New York Post/Page Six
    Washington Post
    Associated Press
    PBS
    New York Daily News
    Online Journalism Review
    The Washingon Post
    Hartford Courant
    WTWP-AM
    The New York Observer
    The Washington Post


    Countdown with Keith Olbermann
    Great Moments in Broadcast Journalism
    Great Thanks Hall of Fame
    Keith Olbermann
    MSM KO Bandwagon
    Olbermann
    Olbermann Watch Channel on You Tube
    Olbermann Watch Debate
    Olbermann Watch Image Gallery
    Olbermann Watch Polling Service
    OlbermannWatch
    OlbyWatch Link Roundup
    TVNewser "Journalism"

    July 2013
    September 2012
    August 2012
    April 2012
    March 2012
    February 2012
    January 2012
    December 2011
    November 2011
    October 2011
    September 2011
    August 2011
    July 2011
    June 2011
    May 2011
    April 2011
    March 2011
    February 2011
    January 2011
    December 2010
    November 2010
    October 2010
    September 2010
    August 2010
    July 2010
    June 2010
    May 2010
    April 2010
    March 2010
    February 2010
    January 2010
    December 2009
    November 2009
    October 2009
    September 2009
    August 2009
    July 2009
    June 2009
    May 2009
    April 2009
    March 2009
    February 2009
    January 2009
    December 2008
    November 2008
    October 2008
    September 2008
    August 2008
    July 2008
    June 2008
    May 2008
    April 2008
    March 2008
    February 2008
    January 2008
    December 2007
    November 2007
    October 2007
    September 2007
    August 2007
    July 2007
    June 2007
    May 2007
    April 2007
    March 2007
    February 2007
    January 2007
    December 2006
    November 2006
    October 2006
    September 2006
    August 2006
    July 2006
    June 2006
    May 2006
    April 2006
    March 2006
    February 2006
    January 2006
    December 2005
    November 2005
    October 2005
    September 2005
    August 2005
    June 2005
    May 2005
    April 2005
    March 2005
    February 2005
    January 2005
    December 2004
    November 2004

    Google

    Olbermann Watch Masthead

    Managing Editor

    Robert Cox
    olby at olbywatch dot com

    Contributors

    Mark Koldys
    Johnny Dollar's Place

    Brandon Coates
    OlbyWatch

    Chris Matthews' Leg
    Chris Matthews' Leg

    Howard Mortman
    Extreme Mortman

    Trajan 75
    Think Progress Watch

    Konservo
    Konservo

    Doug Krile
    The Krile Files

    Teddy Schatz
    OlbyWatch

    David Lunde
    Lundesigns

    Alex Yuriev
    Zubrcom

    Red Meat
    OlbyWatch



    Technorati Links to OlbyWatchLinks to OlbermannWatch.com

    Technorati Links to OlbyWatch Blog posts tagged with "Olbermann"

    Combined Feed
    (OlbyWatch + KO Mini-blog)

    Who Links To Me


    Mailing List RSS Feed
    Google Groups
    Subscribe to Olbermann Watch Mailing List
    Email:
    Visit this group



    XML
    Add to Google
    Add to My Yahoo!
    Subscribe with Bloglines
    Subscribe in NewsGator Online

    Add to My AOL
    Subscribe with Pluck RSS reader
    R|Mail
    Simpify!
    Add to Technorati Favorites!

    Subscribe in myEarthlink
    Feed Button Help


    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    October 11, 2007
    John Gibson: Keith Olbermann Is a Phony and a Racist!


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (171) | | View blog reactions

    171 Comments

    Olbermann is a fraud!
    He's a racist himself!

    Like all liberals, he's a hypocrite. It's like his assertation that he supported women at ESPn when he was apparently stalking them and continues to make slams at women on his show on an almost nightly basis. yet what is his fan base mostly made up of? Women. Because they've brought into his lies and his rebranding himself as a liberal and therefore feel compelled to believe that he believes what they believe. Never mind a year ago he was claiming he'd vote for McCain if he actually bothered TO vote. His fans are idiots. they just don't get it where Olby is concerned.

    There's something wrong inside of Keith's head
    Obsession with Fox and whatever Bill said
    Krazy Keith's really weird
    By colleagues he's jeered
    To FoxNews all the viewers have fled

    If you guys stopped watching olber-monkey he would have no viewers.

    He's as real as Bill O'Reilly. I don't know about the racist thing, though. Unless he really is a Jew, I just don't see it. If he is a Jew, I would conclude from past statements on the air that he is pro Israel, and, like Bill Maher, racist against everyone who is not a Jew. If he's not a Jew, then I don't see the racism. Sexism, definitely, but that's not racism.

    Interesting item I found about him being more partisan than he would like us to believe.
    http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=4611

    Love the Batman Robin picture!

    Love the Batman Robin picture!

    Posted by: Sharon at October 12, 2007 12:40 AM


    I agree! I love it almost as much as I LOVE Gibby!

    Richard,

    You don't seem to be your old self this evening. Are you unwell?

    His show is the one I catch the least often (time slot), but one I have liked.

    Richard,
    Olbermann isn't Jewish.
    He's a Shiite Muslim and wants Israel exterminated!

    I think $ has spooked them all, Rico.

    Sharon,

    This kind of reminds me of a line from Zoolander, a very funny movie.

    "This has been an emotional day for all of us".

    I did a quick Wiki check of Zoolander. Looks like I'll have to rent it sometime.

    The line is perfect for the occasion here!

    You guys are bad.

    Now I have to go look up Zoolander.

    Will be back when I am done.

    Grammie

    This thing with Media Matters calling Gibson a racist is emblematic for why I think playing the race care (or any other "ist" label) is iffy stuff and should be done only with a preponderance of evidence no matter what side is doing it.

    When this sort of thing is just fodder for partisan attacks, we have the sort of intentional blindness that we see in Media Matter's refusal to perceive that there obviously IS a difference between the psychological states of shooters ala Columbine and shooters ala gang members seeking revenge.

    To call Gibson racist, you have to willfully ignore that it is logical to make an assumption that a black shooter in a largely black school may be a violent gangbanger wrecking revenge rather than the spoiled narcissistic brat type we have seen in the Colorado and Washington State shootings.

    Both types are equally troubled and evil, but the odds that the shooter will finally turn the gun on himself, are certainly different.

    If you have a consuming desire to make a political foe into a racist, you will invariably turn a blind eye to the obvious.

    Posted by: Richard at October 11, 2007 11:56 PM

    He isn't Jewish. Although, he may be anti-Semitic, along with being a misogynist, hypocrite, and your typical "my shit don't stink" northeast elitist.


    "Can Ken Starr ignore the apparent breadth of the sympathetic response to the President’s speech? Facially, it finally dawned on me that the person Ken Starr has reminded me of facially all this time was Heinrich Himmler, including the glasses. If he now pursues the President of the United States, who, however flawed his apology was, came out and invoked God, family, his daughter, a political conspiracy and everything but the kitchen sink, would not there be some sort of comparison to a persecutor as opposed to a prosecutor for Mr. Starr?"
    — Keith Olbermann on MSNBC’s Big Show, to Chicago Tribune Washington Bureau Chief James Warren, August 18, 1998.

    The next night he apologized, sort of, but maintained his basic assertion of how Starr reminded him of Himmler:
    "We got a number of calls from people who were offended by that remark, who thought I was comparing Starr to Himmler and insulting Starr, or who thought I was comparing Starr to Himmler and demeaning the terrible importance of the Holocaust. And to those people who were offended I sincerely and humbly apologize. I meant only what I said. Facially, the two men look vaguely alike. But I am primarily of German descent, so I carry with me an inherited shame and guilt about this. So despite the innocence of the intent of my remark there, I should have been much more sensitive about invoking that name in this context and for having not been so, I am very sorry."


    http://newsbusters.org/media/2006-07-25-NBCTSHOWOlberNazi.jpg


    http://www.adl.org/media_watch/tv/20060728-MSNBC.htm


    Keith Olbermann
    Countdown with Keith Olbermann
    MSNBC
    July 28, 2006


    Dear Mr. Olbermann,

    We are deeply dismayed by your ongoing use of the Nazi "Sieg Heil" salute, both on your program and in public appearances -- including the recent Television Critics Association press tour -- while holding up a mask of Fox News commentator Bill O'Reilly.

    While we understand that your aim is to entertain your audience by taking pot shots at Mr. O'Reilly, your repeated use of the Nazi salute has resulted in many complaints from our constituents, including Holocaust survivors and their families who find the use of this gesture offensive and repugnant in any context.

    The Nazi salute is more than just a remnant of history, but serves as a calling card for modern-day neo-Nazis and white supremacists. We believe that the use of gestures and imagery associated with the Nazis – even in jest – only serves to trivialize the Holocaust and denigrate the memory of the six million Jews and others who died as a result of Hitler's Final Solution.

    As a respected and well-known media personality, your actions have consequences and can set a standard for others to emulate. We are especially concerned that young people viewing your program might take their cues from your free use of the "Sieg Heil" salute.

    In light of these concerns, we hope that you will reconsider your use of the Nazi salute in the future.

    Sincerely,


    The Anti-Defamation League


    I don't know if there will be a recap of Thursday's Countdown, but Howard Kurtz just got a regular ole Thanks (no Great Thanks/Pleasure) because after Olby presented his loaded, hate-filled O'Reilly question, Kurtz threw in that O'Reilly was a "fair" guy. Not on Olby Planet!

    > after Olby presented his loaded, hate-filled O'Reilly question, Kurtz threw in that O'Reilly was a "fair" guy

    Ah, something to check for on my tivo tomorrow. Thanks, Sharon.

    Rico, I hardly ever post here, so you couldn't know what my "new" self is like compared to my "old". I assure you I haven't changed a bit.

    There are several people who post as "Richard". This one has posted less than a dozen times.

    There actually is a Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles. But there is no epidemic of black people shooting up schools. So unfortunately, I gotta say that Keith wins this round.

    redneck loud,

    The truth is this: both are used, and so is barefaced. Bald-faced is the newest term; its first known print appearance dates back only 62 years, to 1943. Bold-faced is some four centuries older than that, dating to 1591. Although you might guess bald-faced developed out of a mishearing of bold-faced, the meanings of the two adjectives are not synonymous. Bold-faced means "bold in manner or conduct; impudent"; bald-faced has the same meaning as barefaced: "open; unconcealed"; and "having or showing a lack of scruples."

    Barefaced is one year older than bold-faced; its first print appearance dates to 1590. But the original meaning of barefaced was literal: it meant "having the face uncovered," either "beardless" or "wearing no mask." Not surprisingly, folks using the word barefaced were open to shifting the adjective into the metaphoric realm: barefaced soon came to describe something "unconcealed or open"; and then something "showing or having a lack of scruples."

    More education for the redneck...

    Well, Gore won the Nobel Peace Prize. Already on the CSPAN call in show, the neocons are trashing the man. An AMERICAN won a Nobel Prize and neocons are such geeks they can't just be happy about it...

    Now babies, let's hear your whining excuses...

    Gore/Bono in '08... what a hoot.

    Monkeys hoot, son...

    Men make intelligent responses...

    Bravo for Gore's Peace Prize....
    He deserves the Kudos...
    Congrats!

    Yet Carter and Kofi Anon also have one....
    Hardly a blemishless group.

    There actually is a Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles. But there is no epidemic of black people shooting up schools. So unfortunately, I gotta say that Keith wins this round.

    Posted by: James at October 12, 2007 6:25 AM


    James, you're saying precisely what Gibson said. You need to rethink your conclusion.

    Gibson's statement is based on the fact that there is NOT an "epidemic of black people shooting up schools".

    Since that is the case, Gibson naturally did NOT assume the black kid would likely have the same pattern as the white kids who shoot fellow students and teachers and then turn the gun on themselves.

    He logically assumed the killing could be gang revenge or revenge in general killings and those shooters (no matter the race) usually DO NOT commit suicide afterwards.

    That's not racism, that's conjecture based on the premise of YOUR argument.

    If you want to compare Olbermann's "chicken and waffles" statement with Gibson's, there's more endemic stereotyping in Olbermann's remark.

    Gibson didn't say that all black teenagers are gangbangers, his logic is based on the "special case" particular that A black teenager who had shot up a school could very well be a gangbanger because black kids have not (as you have said) engaged in the shootings done by narcissistic loners.

    On the other hand, Olbermann's "special case" is that black MEN in New York who are named Roscoe had most certainly been in the Harlem hood chowing down on chicken and waffles...

    James,

    I did not see Krazy Keith, or John Gibson, or whatever started this all...........

    But there is an epidemic of black people murdering black people in this country, year in and year out, going back decades. Just check the crime statistics and the prisons of this country.

    Actually- neither comment is racist... its just a recent ploy by pundits to alienate their competitors. I hate nothing more than someone calling racism where there is none. Fake outrage does more damage than good when fighting racism.

    Actually- for the record- I hate hypocrisy more, which both Gibson and KeithO are guilty of.

    Bill Cosby is the featured guest scheduled for Meet the Press this weekend with Harvard Medical School Psychiatry Professor Dr. Alvin Poussaint to discuss their new book. I saw Russert on Morning Joe quoting from the new book providing disturbing statistics. They will be on the show for the full hour.

    benson,

    >>I hate nothing more than someone calling racism where there is none. Fake outrage does more damage than good when fighting racism.

    Yeah! I felt the same way when they were calling Carter an anti-semite...

    BR-
    Carter is a little harsh on the jews...
    Read his book... its hard to have any other
    view after you finish. He's very anti-Israel.
    Slightly anti-hebrew.

    Well, Gore won the Nobel Peace Prize. Already on the CSPAN call in show, the neocons are trashing the man. An AMERICAN won a Nobel Prize and neocons are such geeks they can't just be happy about it...

    Now babies, let's hear your whining excuses...

    Posted by: blindrat at October 12, 2007 9:49 AM

    Jimmy "Worst President in the World" Carter, Yasser the Terroist, and Koffi Annan the crook won the Nobel Peace prized also so Al Gore is in good company. Maybe A-Jad will win it next. They can change the name to the anti-semite award.

    Wow! Great whining, son. Carter wasn't the worst president in the world. He simply overestimated the intelligence of the American people...

    Bush is the worst president America has ever had. Easily...

    "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid"
    By Jimmy Carter

    page 213
    “It is imperative that the general Arab community and all significant Palestinian groups make it clear that they will end the suicide bombing and other acts of terrorism when international laws and the ultimate goals of the Roadmap for Peace are accepted by Israel.”


    ###
    End the use of terrorism only after Israel
    accepts "international laws" and "goals of the Roadmap for Peace?"

    This sounds like Mr. Carter accepts the anti-semitic terrorist violence of radical islamic fundamentalists against Jewish civilians....

    So I logically conclude Mr. Carter, like the rest of the secularist radical left, is anti-semitic.

    Is there a problem with my conclusion?

    benson,

    Being against the genocide that Israel is perpetrating is hardly antisemitism any more than criticising Venezuala is anticatholic...

    Like your hero Keith, Carter distorts actual facts to paint the PLO terrorists as freedom fighters, and Jews as evil occupiers.

    Carter quotes or relates untrue propaganda statements of Arab leaders without comment. This may be due to the diplomatic reticence of a statesman, but it can certainly mislead unwary readers. For example, he relates

    CARTER's book quote "When I met with Yasir Arafat in 1960 he stated, "The PLO has never advocated the annihilation of Israel. The Zionists started the 'drive the Jews into the sea' statement and attributed it to the PLO. In 1969 we said we wanted to establish a democratic state where Jews, Christians and Muslims can all live together. The Zionists said they do not choose to live with any people other than Jews"

    This is factually untrue, and a lie. Fellow peace prize winner Yasir, (rot in hell) repeatedly asserted "all Jews who arrived after 1917 would be expelled from Palestine."

    Exposing the Carter Lie is courtesy of Benson

    Happy anniversary all you terrorist loving freaks...

    On this day in the year 2000, the guided missile destroyer USS Cole was attacked by Islamic terrorists associated with Osama bin Laden's al-Quaeda group.

    Just another reason we fight the good fight!

    Saying Israel is using genocide is like saying a female lion protecting her cubs from a pack of hyena's is genocide.

    Let's face it, the arab states will never leave Israel alone because they hate democracy and Jews. ...

    ...and in defence of Carter he isn't an anti-semite only, he's anti-any religion in America because to him if you are an American he's anti.

    as he said to Wolf "Mr. Softee"..."during the Clinton years every country loved us" as he convienently forgot the first attack on the world trade center, kidnappings of Americans in Lebanon, and let's not forget (even though he did) the Iranian hostage situation of over 444 days while HE was in office.

    Yes, these Muslim's are in a love fest with us, and it all started with president Bush according to Mr. "I hope they don't torture you poor Islamic animals, like you did to our hostages in '78".

    The stupidity of the man is only outdone by his hypocrisy.

    It wasn't his "greatness" that sealed the deal with Sadat, as it was Sadat himself who got the job done, and Carter's too full of himself to accept that.

    He went from a very naive man who hurt America, to a very bitter man who is hurting it even more while he's not even in office.

    Jesus! Lance Link will be next for the Nobel...

    Being against the genocide that Israel is perpetrating is hardly antisemitism any more than criticising Venezuala is anticatholic...

    Posted by: blindrat at October 12, 2007 12:19 PM

    Blindrat why to you take you bus back to Germany 1932. I think you and Jimmy Carter would be much happier there. Jimmy could run for office again.

    Jimmy Carter: "Well I think so. You know he's won an Oscar for his ACTING ability.

    Even Carter nows Al Gore is full of sh*$ in his movie. LOL

    Factor and Wolverine, do either of you recall that a large group of Carter's Presidential Library employees either threatened to quit or signed a letter because Carter's book was anti semitic?

    I have a vague memory of it.

    Grammie

    Yes, Janet, I think one of them was the head of his library and one of his advisors during his Presidency. I think the guy was even on Hannity and Combs.

    "Al Gore has just arrived from his private jet to receive his Nobel Prize for his movie "An Inconvienent Truth" which is about the danger to the environment from noxious and wasteful gases used on the planet.

    As he stepped off he apologized for being late, as he said he forgot his speech and had to fly home to get it.

    "You can't beat those jets" he said, and then after finishing his speech he was asked a few questions from the gloating media, but when asked by the 1 consevative reporter in attendence of whether or not flying a private jet was a tad hypocritical he replied

    "Not at all, as an Inconvienent Truth was meant for America to take notice, and not me."

    When asked to explain this further he stated that he hadn't the time for anymore questions as his private limo was waiting for him...

    Yes, I remember it, and was surprised it took them so long after reading some of the excerpts from it.

    Hey! Did Wolf Mr. Softee turn Christian or something?

    I always thought he was Jewish, but after that interview...

    Oh! I get it: he was only being a responsible reporter

    Okay, kids...

    What exactly has Carter stated that was antisemetic?

    I won't hold my breath waiting for specifics from you old ladies...

    "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid"
    By Jimmy Carter

    page 213
    “It is imperative that the general Arab community and all significant Palestinian groups make it clear that they will end the suicide bombing and other acts of terrorism when international laws and the ultimate goals of the Roadmap for Peace are accepted by Israel.”

    I guess Blindrat can't read.

    See the post at 12:18PM, blindrat.

    To the poster at 1:48 PM, why should I add that quote the the list?....In other words, please explain to me what "prefected" means.

    And while you are at it, compare "Jews need to be perfected" to what Mr. Carter said about islamic terrorism against Israel.

    You are so right, cee...

    It is antisemetic to want the Palestineans to keep defending themselves...

    Anyone with a real answer?

    "It is antisemetic to want the Palestineans to keep defending themselves..."


    ###
    If that is how you rationaize terrorism that is directed towrds women and childrem blindrat, you are more far gone than I once though, lindrat.

    The actions of the suicide hijackers on 9/11 was also morally ok and in self-defense, blindrat?

    BTW, if you had done any research on the quote, Carter has since apologized for the statement, not admitting it was anti-semitic but claiming the publisher will correct it so that it does not tend to offend.

    I have to respectfully disagree with cee about not denouncing that quote, but that's the whole point with these debates.

    I think I'm speaking for most of the conservatives on this site, that a quote like that is indefensible, but at the same time that was coming from somebody that certainly doesn't represent me.

    On the other hand it came from somebody who does sound bites whenever she's allowed on a show, but KO says it for a full hour EVERY NIGHT (with nobody to debate him on it either), and none of you liberals will take him to task for it.

    Not even take him to task, but you defend him and state that this anti-American is good for America!

    He hates America, and even more hates anybody who stands up for it.

    cee,

    Terrorism is unforgivable from any side, even Israel. They kill children, women and starve people...sounds like terror to me. Perhaps you should read more, son...

    "It is called a straddle"


    ###
    No, poster at 1:59, I am a Jew that believes Yehshuah (Jesus) is The Messiah spoken of by Isaiah and the prophets.

    I ask you again, why should "Jews need to be perfected" be added to my list? Are you claiming it is an anti-Semitic statement?

    Based on your 1:59 post, your ignorance of Judaism and Christianity may make a logical and rational discussion of "perfected" an impossibility.

    ..Well I have to go and make some money to give to my fellow "Americans" on welfare and those poor illegal immigrants.

    My kid can eat next week.

    Naziism here we come!

    Well blindrat, it seems both you and Mr. Carter have selective remarks only against Israel while it is self-defense on the part of the muslims.

    I would determine that as anti-Semitic since Mr. Carter has not such quotes directed at terrorist muslims and you have never expressed such concern over their activity and its need to end....as above....

    "....want the Palestineans to keep defending themselves..."

    "Jews need to be perfected"

    This Pastor DUMBFUCK! I mean Phallu-Cee doesn't know how to use the "googles"

    As for you wolfurine, your claim that Coultergeist doesn't speak for you bitches is as phony as you claiming that K.O. speaks for LBRULS!

    Not to mention "LBRULS hate America"

    cee,

    So, you don't have any specifics either, eh son? You girls are like a bunch of blind men. You are told what is out there, but you never find out for yourselves...

    I already stated, today and other days, that all forms of terror and indiscriminate killing are wrong. You won't make the same statement, child.

    You are, in fact, part of the problem...

    I am not about to have a deep theological discussion on the specific term "perfection" based on "google." It is a specific and very important discussion that deserves sensitivity and care. I am well aware on why you are asking, dear poster at 2:26 PM, but I will not take the bait....You brought it up, you show me you want to have a serious discussion of what it means and why it is not anti-Semetic.

    As a Messianic Jew, I am well versed in the left's attempt to wedge people based on religion. It is another part of the secular left that shows its deep seeded intolerance, religious bigotry and hatred. Using the quote without understanding the terms in it shows your motive, dear poster, and unless you are truly interested in understanding the nuances of redemption and The Jewish nation, I really have nothing more to say regarding it.

    I do not want to feed your anti-Semitism.

    >>As a Messianic Jew, I am well versed in the left's attempt to wedge people based on religion.

    Easily the stupidest thing you've ever said, cee...

    I can't count the number of neocon politicians who claim that America is a Christian nation and that there is a "culture war"...

    Completely idiotic...

    blindrat,

    I read Mr. Carter's book in August. I even got the quote from the book here at my office....Mr. Carter does not condemn islamic terrorism but does not do as you do and morally equate a the Israeli nation's self-defense as terrorism, blindrat.

    Why do you believe Israeli defensive actions against violence is akin to terrorism, blindrat?

    You know, the real irony here is that every single one of you religious fundamentalists posting here, every Christian one of you, hates the Jews.

    That's right. I said it.

    You're in this for the fulfillment of your bizzare Revelationist philosophy, and for that myth to work out Jews have to be in the holy land.

    So, on a day to day basis, you're big defenders of Israel. You're pretty sure the Jews killed Christ, but that's not important. What's important is that your own idiotic myth comes true.

    Your preachers, of late, are on the record saying that Jews need to be 'perfected', that when the rapture comes, we're going to get left behind and burn.

    Let me clue you in to something; Israelis know that your 'end times' myth is just that:

    A myth.

    So, if you want to pony up foreign aid dollars so that Israel can defend herself, you're not going to hear a peep. Israelis are more than happy to part fools and their money.


    Your point blindrat? If the left is guilty of calling Christians anti-Semitic as a wedge attempt, it is excused by what you perceive as wrong when people make the correct observation that the culture in our country is becoming debased, narcissistic and selfish and is a departure from key values seen in our founding that derived from Judeo-Christian origins?

    cee,

    Dropping bombs into civilian populated areas of Lebanon is terrorism, son...

    Just as starving Palestinians by not letting aid get to them...

    Innocent men, women and children...with no accountability...

    Who are you addressing, broadsword? Because if you were addressing me, you have grave misconceptions regarding eschatology resulting from of the same religious bigotry that causes the ignorance of the poster at 2:26 PM.

    Judeo-Christian origins? That's rich.

    Why don't you just say what you mean; that America is a Christian nation?

    Pop quiz for Christian idiots who love to say 'Judeo-Christian' so they're not called out for the anti-semites they are....name ONE Jewish ethic off the top of your head. ONE.

    That's right. You can't. You don't really know a damned thing about Judaism, how it colors your own religion, or what its central tenants are.

    Please provde the sources of your claims at 2:57 PM, blindrat....dates would be nice.

    Marty Peretz of the New Republic wrote about Carter that "he will go down in history: as a Jew hater." The reason: "He almost never has a sympathetic or empathetic word to say about the Jewish state. O.K., he doesn't say that the Jews killed Jesus. But if anybody else is killed in the area it is the fault of the Israelis." So what makes Carter anti-Semitic: The more subtle allegations of an American Jewish conspiracy that's preventing criticism (the ADL line)? Or his insistence to blame Israel for all that's wrong in the Middle East? (the Peretz line)

    >>Your point blindrat? If the left is guilty of calling Christians anti-Semitic as a wedge attempt, it is excused by what you perceive as wrong when people make the correct observation that the culture in our country is becoming debased, narcissistic and selfish and is a departure from key values seen in our founding that derived from Judeo-Christian origins?

    Carter is more a Christian than any president hence...even teaches a Sunday school...does good works, etc...

    You girls have branded him an antisemite...

    Israel is not all Jews, son. Not even the majority of Jews...

    Here's another pop-quiz for all you fundamentalist Christians lurking here: give us 500 words on how Jewish ethics were a central foundation of the American Republic.

    Then explain how Christian belief is enshrined in the Constitution.

    Oh, that's right. You can't. Because it isn't.

    If you're looking for the *actual* foundations, try reading Hammurabi, the Napoleonic Code of Justice, the Magna Charta.

    Republicans are such total, self-deluded idiots.

    Israel is 76-78% jews...
    What misinformation site do you frequent blindrat?

    name ONE Jewish ethic off the top of your head. ONE

    Oh broadsword....Learning and reciting The Shema is my most cherished childhood memory. As I still recite it today, I recall the passage in the Christian gospel of Luke when Yehshuah tells the parable of the Good Samaritan showing the true nature of The Shema and its promise to all of mankind!

    On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

    "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

    He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

    "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

    But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

    In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'

    "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"

    The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him."

    Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

    benson,

    I meant, "The majority of Jews do NOT live in Israel"

    My typo...

    Well "narrowmindstick" Jesus Christ. There I said it, and that makes me a Christian, but more importantly where do you get off saying that "we Christians" don't give a shit about the Jews.

    I mean where in the hell does that come from? I live in New York where there are more Jews than in Israel, and the only time I've ever heard this bullshit "Christian right winger" stuff is when it comes from the mouths of some leftist. And usually a Christian one at that.

    I've never met a Jew that was on welfare or some subsidized program that the government offers to slackers.

    When was the last time you heard of a bunch of Jews attacking America?

    That liberal spin you put out there may be the best I've heard yet, but it doesn't surprise me.

    Israel is our alley, no different than England, Australia, etc. and because it's made up of mostly Jews that means to you that we only help them because they're stuck between a nation of terroists even though we hate them?

    Now where would this come from my ultra liberal enemy? From someone who cares so much for them as people because you are better than any of us "Christian right-winger war mongers?"

    Or is it coming from some Islamic terrorist who would like nothing more than for us "Christians" to turn our back on Israel so that you can wipe it out?

    "Carter is more a Christian than any president hence...even teaches a Sunday school...does good works, etc..."


    ###
    Not if he believes islamic terrorism against Jews is justified....he is anti-Semitic. Although Carter practices christianity, blindrat, I have met many anti-Semites in main-line christian churches. In fact, the main-line protestant churches are the source for a lot of anti-Semitism.

    True believers in Jesus Christ's message from The Tanakh to His revelation to John cannot be anti-Semitic....it would be in violation and 180 degrees from those writings in their totality.

    I highly doubt Jimmy Carter believes The Tanahk or understands most of the scriptures based on his writings and public professions of faith.

    The Shma is not a Jewish ethic, retard. It's a prayer. Hear O Israel, it says, the Lord is our God, the Lord is ONE.

    How does that relate to the founding of *this* nation? Where is that in the Constitution?

    Right...it's not there at all.

    "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself."

    Yeah. That's a commandment, a mitzvah.

    It's not an ethic.

    Do you Republican retards not understand the difference between morals and ethics?

    Considering how you've used morality to justify totally unethical behavior, I guess not.

    You gave over the good samaritan parable. That's CHRISTIAN, not Jewish. Duh.

    And you in no way showed how it's reflected in the Constitution. It would be hard for you to do so, because the Good Samaritan doesn't SHOW UP IN THE CONSTITUTION, ANYWHERE.

    So, once again I issue the challenge:

    Pop quiz for Christian idiots who love to say 'Judeo-Christian' so they're not called out for the anti-semites they are....name ONE Jewish ethic off the top of your head. ONE.

    That's right. You can't.

    ...and show us all how 'Judeo-Christian' ethics are the foundation of our Constitution in 500 words or less.

    I await your responses, because they should be hilariously fumbling.

    I've met the first Jewish Nazi in my life. Someone who I would assume is Jewish as he/she knows all the Jewish parables by heart, and yet who has no problems calling ALL Christians idiots.

    Sounds a little Hitlerish to me. Hey my father freed your people during WWII and he was Catholic, so I guess he's an idiot too.

    I thought freedom of religion was in the constitution, but maybe you didn't get that far. Then again we are different narrowmindedstick, as I was brought up to love and honor those who died defending it, and not to honor those who defend its enemies.

    "Death to the infidels" could be the last thing you hear before those same people you defend cut your heart out, if you don't wise up and see that we are not at war with the US, but with the Islamic Fascists...

    My broadsword, how you have ventured away from the faith....The Shema is the basis of what make us Jewish....I will quote:

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. [a] 5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates."


    ###
    Please look at the first line, THE LORD is one. This fundamental idea of ONE creator, one supreme G-d is included in the founding document called THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.....

    "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."


    ###
    Please note, the fundamental source of entitlements about to be rendered in the document come from "Nature's God." Not gods, not the universe, not god in us, not ourselves...Nature's God. Please tell me, at the time this document was written, which religions said there was one God?

    Which nation first declared one God....Ours.

    This ethic of ONE God is the basis of the first entry of the Decalogue, the first commandment! What are you talking about regarding not seeing this basic ethic in the founding of The United States of America?

    Lastly, Chovot ha-Levavot is clear as the first duty (ethic) is contained in The Shema....the oneness of God. Jehovah is one, and the creator of all things. I would really encourage you to think about this a little more and search out what your heritage says about "ethics."

    Idiot at 4:14

    Al Qeda is worldwide...
    And in Iraq....

    Maybe Clinton should have gone after Al Queda when they started. Bush is cleaning up his mess.

    Try the Magna Carta smart guy.


    Magna Carta was the most significant early influence on the extensive historical process that led to the rule of constitutional law


    Magna Carta was originally written because of disagreements between Pope Innocent III, King John and the English barons about the rights of the King. Magna Carta required the king to renounce certain rights, respect certain legal procedures and accept that his will could be bound by the law. It explicitly protected certain rights of the king's subjects, whether free or fettered — most notably the right of Habeas Corpus, meaning that they had rights against unlawful imprisonment. Many clauses were renewed throughout the Middle Ages, and further during the Tudor and Stuart periods, and the 17th and 18th centuries. By the late 19th century most clauses in their original form had been repealed from English law.

    The Magna Carta concludes with the words: "for the salvation of our souls, and the souls of all our ... heirs, and unto the honor of God."

    yeah, like this is started with president Bush. 1993's attack would have made 2001 pale in comparison if they did it right, and now with these animals on the cusp of getting nuclear weapons we should just sit back and wait for the attacks.

    Hey shit for brains, if you think this is going to go away by having "polite discussions" with these animals you truly are on another planet.

    50,000 deaths worldwide and ONLY beginning because they didn't have the technical know how to do what they've always wanted to do. Wipe us out, as quick and as soon as they can.

    Trust me I'm not afraid for you and your kind, because you'll go first as they hate the liberals, but I am afraid for my loved ones and friends. In other words, Americans who do care about this country.

    Keep crying about torture, and ask yourself why you weren't crying when one of your heroe's Carter allowed it to happen to our people for over 440 days in iran.

    Oh, I forgot it only started with Bush. How about the Cole bombing? Or the Beirut bombing? two embassy bombings? sirhan Sirhan killing Kennedy?....That's right all Bush's fault...

    Blindrat, why don't you check this out for starters since you seem to fervently believe that Jimmy Carter and antisemitism on the same page or same breath together is heresy:

    "EX-PRESIDENT FOR SALE (My caps)

    by Alan M. Dershowitz
    January 08, 2007 11:51 AM EST (Updated: January 09, 2007 10:22 AM EST)
    rating: 7.1/10 (130 votes) | comments: 484

    It now turns out that Jimmy Carter--who is accusing the Jews of buying the silence of the media and politicians regarding criticism of Israel--has been bought and paid for by Arab money. In his recent book tour to promote Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid, Carter has been peddling a particularly nasty bit of bigotry. The canard is that Jews own and control the media, and prevent newspapers and the broadcast media from presenting an objective assessment of the Arab-Israeli conflict, and that Jews have bought and paid for every single member of Congress so as to prevent any of them from espousing a balanced position. How else can anyone understand Carter’s claims that it is impossible for the media and politicians to speak freely about Israel and the Middle East? The only explanation – and one that Carter tap dances around, but won’t come out and say directly – is that Jews control the media and buy politicians. Carter then presents himself as the sole heroic figure in American public life who is free of financial constraints to discuss Palestinian suffering at the hands of the Israelis."

    The entire article can be found at:

    http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976879837

    In part two Constitutional Law Professor at Harvard, Alan M. Dershowitz, ended it with this:

    "If money determines political and public views—as Carter insists “Jewish money” does—then Carter’s views on the Middle East must be deemed to have been influenced by the vast sums of Arab money he has received. If he who pays the piper calls the tune, then Carter’s off-key tunes have been called by his Saudi Arabian paymasters. It pains me to say this, but I now believe that there is no person in American public life today who has a lower ratio of real to apparent integrity than Jimmy Carter. The public perception of his integrity is extraordinarily high. His real integrity, it now turns out, is extraordinarily low. He is no better than so many former American politicians who, after leaving public life, sell themselves to the highest bidder and become lobbyists for despicable causes. That is now Jimmy Carter’s sad legacy. "

    The entire Part Two can be found @:

    http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976886308

    Why does this sentence bring to mind Nazis "If money determines political and public views—as Carter insists “JEWISH MONEY” does"? (Caps mine)

    Could it be that the Nazis accused Jews of strangling the world with their control of money and their bought and paid for politicians?

    Grammie

    Wolverine, I have to apologize for being so slow on the uptake.

    I kept thinking, who in the hell is"Narrowmindedstick"?

    Don't mind me. I sometimes get senior moments that last for hours! :)

    Grammie

    Chicken Blogger, I must be having another senior moment.

    "We fought off an empire stretching from Berlin to fucking Siberia"

    Where is "fucking Siberia"?

    Grammie

    4:20, absolutely right too.

    4:14 you say "we" fought off an entire stretch from Berlin to Siberia?

    Well "we" didn't get into that fight until about 15 million people died first overseas.

    It was only after we were attacked did we decide to get into it, and if we hadn't been attacked the people like "you" would have said "we" didn't lose any so why go at all?

    Which would have meant that "we'd" be speaking German now and "we'd" never be having these conversations now.

    Well I don't want to learn how to speak arabic, but believe me if the rest of the world doesn't wake up "we" all will be, because those little car bombs that are killing now, will quickly turn into big nuclear ones..

    Funny, how you say that only 50,000 have died but yet are screaming to end the war when we've lost 3,500.

    They will come until the last one is wiped out, and believe me they are praying for a democratic president. Allah will have answered them...

    Grammie...Siberia is in Russia

    I know that, Wolverine, but I don' know where "FUCKING SIBERIA" is. :)

    Grammie

    Blindrat, you got your panties in a wad over the question I asked and that The Factor and Wolverine answered to your dissatisfation.

    It took a bit of trial and error of terms to find the complete info I asked them about,

    It can be found here:

    http://beartotheright.blogspot.com/2007/01/14-carter-center-board-members-resign.html

    You will find copies of the two letters that FOURTEEN Board Members of Carter's Library sent to their fellow Board Members to inform them of their resignation and to Jimmy Carter resigning from their positions.

    Just one very telling and compelling excerpt from these fourteen closely associated professionals with Jimmy Carter and their reasons for resigning:

    "Your book has confused opinion with fact, subjectivity with objectivity and force for change with partisan advocacy. Furthermore the comments you have made the past few weeks insinuating that there is a monolith of Jewish power in America are most disturbing and must be addressed by us. In our great country where freedom of expression is basic bedrock you have suddenly proclaimed that Americans cannot express their opinion on matters in the Middle East for fear of retribution from the "Jewish Lobby" In condemning the Jews of America you also condemn Christians and others for their support of Israel. Is any interest group to be penalized for participating in the free and open political process that is America? Your book and recent comments suggest you seem to think so."

    Let me just highlight one sentence from their letter by repeating it in a stand alone way with caps for emphasis:

    "Furthermore the comments you have made the past few weeks INSINUATING THAT THERE IS A MONOLITH OF JEWISH POWER IN AMERICA are most disturbing and must be addressed by us."

    Blindrat, this also conjures up deja vue of the Nazis to me. That sinister Jewish Worldwide Cabal is alive and well according to Jimmy Carter.

    I do believe that he has justly earned the label ANTISEMITIC.

    A sideline to this discussion is why was this barely covered by the MSM so that using several different search terms that not once did anything come up in the first page or two, I didn't look any further, from any MSM outlet.

    I know you take the bus and you sometimes use that as an excuse so I will copy my two comments directed to you about this and catch up with you when I see you here.

    Grammie

    The fourteen resigning members:

    Alan Abrams
    Steve Berman
    Michael Coles
    Jon Golden
    Doug Hertz
    Barbara Babbit Kaufman
    Liane Levetan
    Jeff Levy
    Leon Novak
    Ambassador William B. Schwartz Jr.
    William B. Schwartz III
    Steve Selig
    Cathey Steinberg
    Gail Solomon

    Man, Republicans are dumb:

    "Please look at the first line, THE LORD is one. This fundamental idea of ONE creator, one supreme G-d is included in the founding document called THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE....."

    Yeah. The Declaration of Independence is not part of the Constitution, idiot.

    "Lastly, Chovot ha-Levavot is clear as the first duty (ethic) is contained in The Shema"

    Monotheism is not a normative ethic. Duh. There's no discussion whatsoever in the Shema about the difference between right and wrong, the good or evil, or for that matter what constitutes personal responsibility within society.

    You know, ethics.

    AGAIN, I issue the challenge:

    Show us all in 500 words or less how Jewish ethic is a cornerstone of the American Constitution. Then do the same thing for Christianity. Come up with one little example of how the 'Judeo-Christian' ethic is backbone of the Constitution.

    And...to the person who called me a Nazi; well that's just hilarious. Please expand for all of us how my Jewish faith makes me a Nazi. I'm sure it'll be as funny as your failure to realize that a lot of Jews have had just about enough of Christians, due mostly to 19 centuries of 'Christian Love' and all the blood that that particular concept ends up spilling.

    As is your description of the 'enemy' as 'Islamic Fascists'. Do....you even know what Fascism is? Do you?

    Was that the green glow of dhimmitude behind Lefty Alter's shoulder?

    "Do....you even know what Fascism is? Do you?
    Posted by: broadsword at October 12, 2007 8:46 PM"

    Yes, I do. I do.

    Do you know? Do you?

    Grammie

    Tell us Grammie, tell us all the difference between Fascism and Caliphism.

    Yeah, and Christians need to have their herd culled a bit.

    Have fun waiting for the Rapture...that's never coming.

    How is it that you guys know Santa Claus is not real, but think Jesus is?

    It's amazing how quiet the Republican faithful get when actually confronted, when their little security blanket is taken away.

    "Maybe", they think quietly "I've just been parroting rhetoric. My holy God, maybe my beliefs are built on a straw foundation. Maybe Bush is just an arrogant bully who's just been *saying* that he shares my religious outlook."

    Broadsword,

    Indeed you are a wise man. We like to refer to people like you as anti-infidel infidels. It pleases us to no end to know that many like you are in the Dhimmicrat party.

    Oh, and I agree with you that "Christians need to have their herd culled a bit". If you had replaced "a bit" with "entirely" we would be in agreement 100%.

    Allahu akbar, my Friend.


    I was wondering how long it would take one of you morons to do an ad-hominem attack calling me a terrorist.

    You have no answers for the questions I asked, clearly.

    Maybe you can explain this:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071012/ap_on_re_mi_ea/sanchez_iraq_2

    And tell us once again how well the war is going, how you BELIEVE in your heart of hearts that this foreign policy is anything other than a disaster for our Country?

    Unlike you, I'm not a traitor, blindly cheerleading the creeping authoritarianism so emblematic of your party, sinking this country 980 billion in debt to the Chinese to fuel tax-cuts while we're at war (brilliant, brilliant, brilliant), outing our spies for mere political gain, spying on our citizens in the name of freedom....not to mention justifying tourture in our names.

    You're not strong; you're sheep. Your credibility is gone, gone, gone. Best of luck in the next election. You're going to need it.

    Broadsword,

    My friend, I certainly did not call you one. And I will take offense if anybody on this site calls me one. It would be slander! We have so much in common, you and I; let no one get in the way.

    Can't we all just get along? Peace be upon you, my brother. As an anti-Infidel Infidel, you are pretty much half a Muslim already. Allah works in mysterious ways, indeed!

    Broadsword,

    My friend, you screwed up! This General Sanchez said "America has no choice but to continue our efforts in Iraq". That is not the right message to send to your fellow Infidels.

    I do believe you picked the wrong general to quote. Perhaps you will have more luck quoting General Wesley Clark.

    Peace be upon you, my friend.

    Unlike you, I'm not a traitor, blindly [cheerleading]sic the creeping authoritarianism so emblematic of your party, sinking this country 980 billion in debt to the Chinese to fuel tax-cuts while we're at war (brilliant, brilliant, brilliant), outing our spies for mere political gain, spying on our citizens in the name of freedom....not to mention justifying [tourture]sic in our names.

    You're not strong; you're sheep. Your credibility is gone, gone, gone. Best of luck in the next election. You're going to need it.

    Posted by: broadsword at October 12, 2007 10:24 PM


    Lets see here......outing spies? You can't be talking about that little blond slut/secretary. Political gain? Who gained? Spying on "our citizens?" Could you be any more uninformed? I would highly recommend a different news source. "Justifying torture?". When did this happen? Source?

    "narrowmindedstick" Being that you believe that Christianity is so bad towards the Jews then you must have had your head in the sand for the past 50 years when every attack on them have been from the Muslims.

    If you want to wax poetic about the past, even going so far back as 1900 years, then our true enemies now are the British, Italians, and the Germans for starters, but the last time I looked for the past 50 years we haven't had one Jew or American killed by those denominations.

    However, you friendly Muslims have certainly taken up for their slack by not only killing Jews, but swearing to end the existence of all of them. You know like your pal Hitler once declared.

    Fascism: a philosophy of a government that endorses total control over every aspect of national life and religion, you know like about 70% of what all Muslim nations believe, and you...."an idealogy with links to socialism" (you know like only one religion, one way of life, one rule, no free speech, etc.)
    Last I saw in our wonderful country we have more than 20 religions, a million ways of life, democrats, republicans, socialists, communists, loyalist, libertarians, islamic fascists (you), liberals, conservatists, and certainly free speech, etc.

    You know how you guys want us to socialize health, welfare and now with your religious rants about all Christians being bad, as if there can only be one religion in YOUR IDEAL world. Hitler felt the same way.

    By the way, I never heard a Jew say that Jesus wasn't real. Maybe they said he wasn't the messiah, but the real Jews admit his existance.

    Then again your friend Ahmadinejad said the Holocaust never happened, so I guess he also convinced you that Jesus never happened either.

    Your a Jew only in name with definite ties to Islamic fascists, and I know most Jews would be ashamed of how you've been acting, as if the next suicide bomber to watch out for in Israel will be a Christian.

    the Muslim terrorists would have you believe that, and like I said "be careful what you wish for because you may get it."

    If you are ever going to be honest here, just tell me who you think these extremists will be hoping wins the elections?

    And don't give me the same rhetoric that they'll be wishing for a democratic president so they'll have peace, as that didn't stop them before with Carter and Clinton.

    They'll want a democratic leader so that it will be much easier to attack. I mean they must have creamed in their pants when they saw Pelosi appeasing Syria. What a joke..

    The ranting raving newcomer is a kick and a half.

    Having spent the afternoon in ever more virulent personal attacks he whines and whimpers "I was wondering how long it would take one of you morons to do an ad-hominem attack calling me a terrorist."

    Poor little baby. He thinks that he has been treated unfairly by the wascally Republicans.

    Perhaps the crooked blunted broadsword could point out in which post/posts he was called a terrorist?

    One poster made several comments agreeing with him and the rest didn't touch on the subject that I noticed. I am open to correction because I may have missed something that a much more sensitive soul such as he noticed.

    Grammie

    Mahmoud,

    Here's a big steaming bowl of my shit. Enjoy it with some butter.

    Broadsword.

    P.s. You're not clever, Grammie. You're *finished* as a party. Tell us all again how you're not.

    Wolverine, if stupid was the coin of the realm, you'd be a very rich man. Instead of what you actually are.

    "narrowmindedstick" Being that you believe that Christianity is so bad towards the Jews then you must have had your head in the sand for the past 50 years when every attack on them have been from the Muslims."

    Ah, you've got a mortal lock on the last 50 years. You've still got 1950 years of hating us to make up for, so I'm sure you'll ge started right away.

    "Fascism: a philosophy of a government that endorses total control over every aspect of national life and religion"

    No. That's not what Fascisim is. Fascism is the confluence of state and government interests. Duh. Religion is irrelevant to the idea of Fascism. You're thinking of Caliphism.

    My point is that Christians, like yourself, are generally idiots. Easily led to the promised land, easily led, easily duped.

    You voted for Bush, for Christsakes. That doesn't make you a bigot, or a Fascist, or a homophobe (though there's about a 60% chance it does). I'd say it makes you a sucker.

    I'll say it again; Jesus is a *myth*. Note how the New Testament is simply the stories of four of his followers, Matt, Mark Luke and John, not actually the words of the man himself. Chew on that, idiot. Sure, maybe he walked the earth, but what you think of as liturgy is probably bunk.

    Get it?

    I am a Jew in PRACTICE, idiot. Ties to Islamic Fascists? If you were any more stupid, we could use you as the standard.

    "I know most Jews would be ashamed of how you've been acting,"

    I'm thinking that you don't know any actual Jews. That you're desperately grasping at straws because you think you're some kind of a defender of us.. regardless of the fact that you're not. Because you need Israel to exist for your MYTH of Revelation to come true.

    Right?

    Get this straight, Christian idiots: You don't know shit about Judaism.

    Broadswordanf the poster at 4:59AM:

    The Declaration of Independence is THE founding document of The United States of America. It was signed under the penalty of death by brave men, our country's first leaders, and names The United States as a new entity...Abraham Lincoln refers to the document in The Gettysberg address as THE founding document of the great nation....

    The Constitution enumerates the rights of the people and the restrictions on the FEDERAL government....The Constitution is secondary to The Declaration of Independence in both time and applicability. The FACT that the Declaration stands today as the founding document of or nation really bothers secularists because it calls our rights as derived....From who?.....Nature's God.

    Broadsword, you have a fundamental misconception of believing in one God. It is an ethic. According to The Torah, it is wrong not to believe in God. It is the first commandment of The Decalogue. Now, if you want to go to your Rabbi and discuss this with him, I really do encourage you....but being a Jew requires you to believe in One Jehovah....Not to is a sin.

    So, ONE LORD (G-d), is the first and greatest ethic....it is wrong to believe in any other, none or more tha one....And The Declaration of Independence begins, in its first paragraph, identifying God as the creator....the creator of our rights.

    The writers and signers of the document penned their signatures under threat of hanging or firing line in support of every word and idea in that document. These great leaders also have thousands of quotes attributed to them believing in ONE LORD (G-d). Secular leftists who put lesser, and intellectually inferior 19th and 20th century philosophies above that which is the basis of our country, seek to destroy this legacy by either not teacking it or desicrating it, like you both just did.

    It is sad, because the success of our country through the difficult beginning, The Civil War, through the struggles of WWI, the depression, WWII and the realization of rights to all people despite race or gender were because of the basic idea of individual freedom and liberty (free will) granted by ONE LORD.

    Now, we see this liberty eroding because of the new ideas inflicted on us by a elitist and bigoted minority just as poisonous as the confederate south, the imperialists of the early 20th century, the Marxist socialists or the Nazi fascists. They are intent of imposing their ethic that there is no God on a country that still holds a overwhelming majority that believes in Him.

    To do this honestly, either The Declaration of Independence has to be ignored as the codifying document of our liberties (which has been tried since the 1960's by radical leftist academics) or the actual word "God" has to be stricken from our public discourse....which has been attempted byu the same world-view holders. A luke warm response like yours is simply acknowledging your ignorance of history and illogical....Pick a side, dear posters.

    Is there a God and are our rights as free people created by that God?

    A simple question I pose to anyone discussing such topics....It is telling of their MOTIVES and world-view.

    I know how Lincoln would answer this question....

    Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

    Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

    But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us — that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion — that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain — that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

    Broadsword,

    My friend, you appear to be upset. Believe me when I say that I truly understand your problem. You need to get right with Allah. It is difficult to be half way there, as you are. Being an anti-Infidel Infidel is a tough place in which to be. One must take the leap and go all the way. "Balls to the wall", as some Infidels like to say. Go for it, dude. Paradise awaits you! Other Infidels use the word "unhinged" to describe your condition. I do not understand this word, but perhaps it also could apply to your condition.

    Peace be upon you, my little unhinged one.

    I never proposed to know about Judaism, as I'm a Catholic, and only proposed to know that our great country hasn't a problem with any religion nor do I.

    What I did state was that you have been blinded behind your hate for America and Christians, so much so that you seem "wounded" somehow in how both these entities supposedly hurt you.

    I don't know how old you are, but I would assume not older than 50, and if that's the case what kind of scars have you from the Christians or America?

    Is it because someone had the nerve to disagree with your viewpoint, and in your belief that is not acceptable? That a different opinion than yours has wounded you for life?

    You know like Hitler and a fascist would do.

    I'm not going to get into whose religion is more believable (Christian or Judaism), but from your rantings I can say for a fact which one is more tolerable of the other.

    Although, I would have to say from the Jewish friends I have that it isn't the religion that's intolerable, but just the person who is spewing all this hate>>>you.

    Fascism is how I stated it, as it is taken directly from the definition of fascism in the directionary, and being that you won't accept that definition I still stand that your belief on the subject and most everything else in your hatred of Christianity and America is exactly how a fascist would reply.

    Either your way or no other way.

    And as far as you still "worrying" about the years before the previous 50, I'd say SNAP OUT OF IT because the worries you should have are not from the Christians or America, but from the Islamic Fascists that intend to wipe you out.

    You seem to have a strong alligiance towards these Muslim fanatics, which is why it's easy to see why Mahmoud Ahmadinejad keeps calling for you.

    As far as "needing" Israel to exist for some kind of "revelation" for me may have been the funniest thing I've read in a long time! That was great, and I loved it!

    No in reality my poor misguided fascist, I would want Israel to stay forever as I happen to think all demorcacies deserve that right. Also the fact that they, unlike you, are one of the toughest countires and have put off every attempt from your Islamic friends to destroy them.

    Freedom is an honor and not a privledge and something you for sure have taken for granted.

    Go ahead and take your preachings to the Middle East, and see how far you get with them, but I can assure you if you don't change your religion to Muslim your head will no longer be in the sand, but on a post for all to see.

    You see I live in the real world, and that world unlike yours, is a world where I have never in my life "hated" somebody for something they never did to me or my country. The Jews never did anything to me or my country, therefore I don't hate them.

    I hate what the Islamic fascists have done to my country, therefore I hate them. You, on the other hand hate the Christians for something they DIDN'T do to you, and that is the sad part

    Dingbat Nobody,

    The Nobel Peace Prize is given by dingbats to other dingbats, with the occasional terrorist thrown in for diversity's sake.

    Bobo, prepare yourself for some news I heard whispered about today.

    Take a few deep breaths to relax yourself. I don't want you hyperventilating and swooning.

    Algore is considering running with THE BOSS in the VP slot! :)

    Grammie

    Grammie,

    Even now the most maniacal of the Dirty Rotten Scoundrel flim-flam artists, is frantically googling for a Gore-Springsteen news article to rip-off...

    why/anon, why no rebuttal to the terrorist, the crook and the worst pres in history winning the nobel "peace" prize?

    Bush won the peace prize?

    Jimmy "Worst President in the World" Carter, Yasser the Terroist, and Koffi Annan the crook won the Nobel Peace prized also so Al Gore is in good company. Maybe A-Jad will win it next. They can change the name to the anti-semite award.
    Posted by: The Factor at October 12, 2007 11:54 AM

    I agree that Arafat winning has significantly tarnished the prize for a long time (in the same way Bush has tarnished the formerly conservative Republican party), which is one of the first thoughts I had when Gore won it. Which is really a shame, but they brought it on themselves. I'd be perfectly happy to forgive Arafat everything and hand him the award myself if he had brokered AN ACTUAL PEACE AGREEMENT, but to hand it to him "for taking steps towards a peace agreement" was ridiculous and insulting.

    That being said however, let's not forget that he was a co-recipient with Rabin and Perez, so its a bit of a stretch to call it the anti-semite award. Stupid? Yes. Anti-semetic? I don't quite buy it.

    Another carter denial, w/out the denial. Too funny!

    You people are amazingly dim; "To do this honestly, either The Declaration of Independence has to be ignored as the codifying document of our liberties"

    Yeah. Our liberties are codified in the Bill of Rights, in the Constitution, idiot. Not in the Declaration of Independence. Try reading the former, sometime.

    The Declaration of Independence does NOT carry the force of law, and it does NOT enumerate our protected freedoms. What part of that are you missing?

    "I never proposed to know about Judaism".

    Yeah, you did. You people LOVE to run around talking about how the 'Judeo-Christian' ethic the foundation of this country, but when asked, you cannot give one single example of a) an actual Jewish ethic or b) how either kind of ethic is enshrined in the Constitution.

    (CLUE: You can't, because they're not)

    Get it yet? You don't even understand the rhetoric you're parroting...

    Oh, and once again - Fascism is the confluence of corporate and state interests. Not religious and state interests.

    You're thinking of Islamic Caliphism, moron.

    The reason your political betters have chosen the phrase 'Islamic Fascism' is so that you can draw a comparison to WWII in that walnut-sized brain of yours.

    why don't you think for yourselfm, for a change. There has been "global warming" seven times. The earth heats up, then it cools down. Try reading something besides al gorey's website and watching his comedy movie that has been debunked through and through. Even a judge ruled that there was 7 or 8 major lies in his comedy movie. Why don't you think.

    "As the droughts, severe weather, rising seas, dying species and other effects continue, Royalnutcase says DO NOTHING !"

    Why don't you think, all of these have happened seven times before. Long before suv's and blow hards like al gorey!

    Another carter denial, w/out the denial. Too funny!
    Posted by: royal king at October 14, 2007 12:14 PM


    No, what's funny is the obvious way you completely dodged the substance of my comment because you don't have a leg to stand on.

    But if you MUST harp on the Carter talking point, please address the very honest question I had about him in the other thread. And while you're at it, feel free to add a list of things he's done that are worse than the unmitigated disaster Bush has given us.

    Try reading something besides al gorey's website and watching his comedy movie that has been debunked through and through. Even a judge ruled that there was 7 or 8 major lies in his comedy movie. Why don't you think.
    Posted by: royal king at October 14, 2007 1:22 PM


    Perhaps you should try getting your information from something other than Republican talking points (whether you're getting them from Rush, FOX, or whoever, they're all the same source).

    Actually the judge said that while the overall premise appears a bit biased, he does agree that the main points are true - including the effect CO2 emissions are having on the atmosphere.

    Of all the facts presented in the film, there are 9 which he cited as inaccurate, though most of those involve some grey area, not actual lies. Things like how the film mentions pacific islanders have evacuated to New Zealand which he says isn't true - they're only in the PROCESS of evacuating, which will begin in 2008. Here's the article debunking the judge's debunks:
    http://www.newscientist.com/blog/environment/2007/10/al-gores-inconvenient-truth.html

    Of course, I fully expect an oil company funded agency to release a debunk of the debunk of the debunk any day now, at which point things should get very interesting. :)

    Gore's the biggest hypocrite bar none this country has ever seen or heard, and would sell his soul to the devil if it would make him more money and more powerful.

    Take this wonderful example of the NPP "man." At the Democratic National Convention he retold a story about how his sister had died from the effects of smoking.

    Appealing to the millions on TV and the delegates in the hall with all the passion he could muster "Three thousand young people will start smoking tomorrow and one thousand of them will die a death not unlike my sister. And that's why until I draw my last breath, I will pour my heart and soul into the cause of protecting our children from the dangers of smoking." End quote.

    But, back in 1988 when he ran for the Democratic presidential nomination, this same "passionate and caring" AL Gore while speaking to a crowd in North Carolina stated this "Throughout most of my life I raised tobacco.I want you to know that with my own hands all my life I've sprayed it, I've chopped it, spiked it put it in the barn and sold it." End quote. (Being that he was orating in front of tobacco farmers I'm sure had nothing to do with it.)

    And this was 4 YEARS AFTER HIS SISTER DIED.

    It amazes me sometimes how you liberals will worry about something that "may happen" in 20 to 40 years, but couldn't give a rats ass about what is going on now.

    Quite obvious that in the past 50 years and right to the present we are at war with the worst possible enemies imaginable, and yet you want us to "make peace" with them.

    You know, peace with a faction that would like nothing more than to wipe us off the face of the earth at the first chance they get just because we believe in democracy.

    And to deny that is truly the markings of a fool , because this has been going on since at least 1966 when Sirhan Sirhan killed RFK right up to the present time with the attacks of 9/11. (Which by the way was in the works for two years so once again you can't blame President Bush for that one either).

    The rejoicing heard in Bin Laden's land by MILLIONS when the towers fell should never be forgotten. At least by real Americans it shouldn't.

    A "war gone wrong" debatable, but at least the man right from the start got it right by going after the worst dictator that was out there, and showed the courage to do what he knew was right regardless of public opinion...after the fact...because no matter how much these democrats try to rebuff everything he's done so far, almost 95% of them also voted for the war on Iraq.

    The only difference now is that they are "changing" their vote because when they actually saw men dying in the war, they were shocked. "How could this be? No American is suppose to die during a war! Something is wrong here!"

    So Al Gore can win all the NPP's he wants and change his stance to whatever audience he is speaking to at the time which he does routinely. But, the first thing I will worry about is what is happening NOW, and that is that if any of these fanatics gets ahold of a nuclear weapon none of us will ever have to worry about Global warming again.

    Seriously, if you're going to get rid of every hypocrite in politics, you're going to have to eliminate virtually everyone in the entire business. Which wouldn't be a bad idea, if it were practical. At minimum, I'd love to see a abolishment of political parties period, but that's not bloody likely either.

    The rest of your points are so ridiculous they barely warrant any response whatsoever, but it's a slow day, so...

    "Quite obvious that in the past 50 years and right to the present we are at war with the worst possible enemies imaginable, and yet you want us to "make peace" with them."

    If that's true, why only deploy 130,000 troops, most of whom are wasting their time in the middle of a civil war between possibly dozens of factions in a country that didn't attack us? Why did they let Bin Laden escape in the first place, by only surrounding him on 3 sides, and allow the Taliban to start coming back into power in Afghanistan? Why alienate the law-abiding Muslim population who could be our best resource for information on the extremists - especially given that the best way to stop terrorist plots has now been proven repeatedly to come from policework, rather than military?

    As for "making peace with them", why are you so against peace? And don't you realize that our actions in the past few years have done nothing but help bankrupt our country and boost the morale and numbers of people who hate us all around the world?

    "You know, peace with a faction that would like nothing more than to wipe us off the face of the earth at the first chance they get just because we believe in democracy."

    Which faction is that? I can understand some people buying that particular line of BS ("They hate us for our freedom!") back when they were still cowering under their desks in fear. But to still believe that now, when the real reasons they attacked us have been discussed ad-nauseum is completely batsh*t insane.

    "...the attacks of 9/11. (Which by the way was in the works for two years so once again you can't blame President Bush for that one either)."

    Except that he was given a pretty specific warning about it, only a month before it happened, plus had basically shunned the nation's leading authority on terrorism from the day he took office.

    And let's not forget that while Clinton definitely screwed up not going after Bin Laden when he had the chance, that it was the Republicans who were standing in his way by shouting, "Wag the dog! No war for Monica!" It's amazing to see how often they love bringing up that particular talking point about him without acknowledging that they were the ones who stopped him.

    "...almost 95% of them also voted for the war on Iraq."

    Again, not exactly true. The vote was to go to war as a last resort if some specific diplomatic courses failed, including Saddam allowing weapons inspectors back in, turning over documents, getting support from other countries, etc. All of which Bush ignored and just launched right into his war.

    Also, let's not forget that it's now been proven over and over that Bush was feeding very misleading and cherry picked intelligence to them, so they weren't actually voting on the truth to begin with.
    (For example, one line would originally state, "Hussein would like to attack the U.S., but he doesn't have any capability to do so," would simply turn into, "Hussein would like to attack the U.S." when it was given to congress)

    VATICAN CITY — A Vatican official suspended after being caught on hidden camera making advances to a young man said in an interview published Sunday that he is not gay and was only pretending to be gay as part of his work.

    In an interview with La Repubblica newspaper, Monsignor Tommaso Stenico said he frequented online gay chat rooms and met with gay men as part of his work as a psychoanalyst. He said that

    he pretended to be gay in order to gather information about "those who damage the image of the Church with homosexual activity."

    Vatican teaching holds that homosexual activity is a sin.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at October 14, 2007 3:20 PM


    More brilliant reasoning from Chucky Bob....

    Not only is homosexuality solely aberrant in the case of Republicans, Italian officials at the Vatican become members of the Republican Party when outted...

    I love the sour grapes coming from the 'right' on this board...jealousy, methinks, because the only award GWB is ever going to get is an indictment in the Hague.

    What part of the idea that confronting global warming is part-in-parcel with averting refugee crises (like Darfur) are you not getting?

    It's not confusing; however, for some reason you guys are in to supporting the CONTINUATION of man-made humanitarian crises. Like the giant one YOU created in Iraq by engendering four million (plus) brand new international refugees.

    That's right. YOU created that mess, not Saddam, not terrorists, not anybody else but you. YOUR votes for GWB, and his subsequent idiocy made policy, are what have led us to this freakin' disaster.

    You're the party of personal responsibility. It would be refreshing if you'd actually take some.

    That's right. YOU created that mess, not Saddam, not terrorists, not anybody else but you. YOUR votes for GWB, and his subsequent idiocy made policy, are what have led us to this freakin' disaster.

    You're the party of personal responsibility. It would be refreshing if you'd actually take some.

    Posted by: broadsword at October 14, 2007 3:38 PM


    Paring Knife, you can argue that Bush brought the terrorist into Iraq, you can't argue that therefore this means terrorists "are not responsible" for Iraqis leaving...

    Frankly, the only responsibility that it would make any sense in taking now is the one that the Pres., the Republicans and the Dem frontrunner candidates want to take-- we don't leave Iraq until things are more under control.

    Broadsword,

    If there weren't any Islamic terrorists in Iraq there wouldn't be any refugees there, either. It's their fault the refugees exist, not ours.

    The main problem in Darfur ain't the weather, it's the Islamic terrorsts again. White Muslims in Darfur are killing and oppressing black Christians.

    You complained about the term "Islamic Fascism". Actually they call it "Islamofascism". And that is a stupid term. I hate it. If you have a better one, let's hear it.

    While our party is the party of "personal responsibility", yours is the party of dingbats who hate our party more than you hate the enemy. That's pretty stupid.

    But, back in 1988 when he ran for the Democratic presidential nomination, this same "passionate and caring" AL Gore while speaking to a crowd in North Carolina stated this "Throughout most of my life I raised tobacco.I want you to know that with my own hands all my life I've sprayed it, I've chopped it, spiked it put it in the barn and sold it." End quote. (Being that he was orating in front of tobacco farmers I'm sure had nothing to do with it.)

    And this was 4 YEARS AFTER HIS SISTER DIED.

    "Al Gore is a great American."

    Posted by: Why don't you think at October 14, 2007 3:12 PM

    Chiv,

    About employing "only about 130,000 men in Iraq." Are you serious? the democrats would have waged their own war against Bush and America if he even tried to go to the number he wanted. It's called "political pressure" and not unlike the pressure I saw during the Viet Nam war.

    Same story: we kick ass when the war starts, then we lose some men. The weaklings and cowards scream we're losing too much men and the war is wrong, then the president pulls men and we lose our advantage. And, we lose more men.

    Christ he had to go through hell with the Democrats to get this last deployment
    of 20,000 men and now you're saying he should have sent more?

    Stop all the protests, and cease the liberal media from talking about all the "bad" things the troops have done, and you'll see an end to this war as quick as President Bush can say 300, 000 more troops.

    About Bin Laden: We haven't even found the best navigator in the world (his name I've forgotten) and he was lost in our own country. Not to mention that as soon as Laden got to Pakistan we were told it was out of our hands.

    Do you SERIOUSLY think that President Bush doesn't want him captured? I mean come on now! the lunacy doesn't stop.

    If you're saying that the president only cares about himself, then how in the world does it benefit him NOT to capture this pig?

    As for peace, of course I'm all for it, but unless you've been dead for the past 50 years, we are fighting an enemy who's idea of peace is in destroying us all and everything we believe in first. Then they'll talk peace.

    We didn't "help our enemies moral" from this war, as their moral needed no help as long as we are alive. Beruit Bombing, Iran hostages, embassy kidnappings, Cole bombing, two embassy's bombed,1st twin towers attack, and the 2nd one ALL happened before the war (and there's many more as my fellow Americans on this site I'm sure will remind you) so what "moral lifting" were you talking about?


    I'm not blaming President Clinton for the attacks, as all I was stating is that this didn't start with President Bush. It's not Clinton, Carter or Bush's fault that we are being attacked>>>It's the TERRORISTS!

    All diplomatic recourses had failed, about 5 times, not to mention the 29 times Hussein totally disregarded the rules of disengagement after they were set down after Desert Storm.

    And who said Bush "cherry-picked" his intelligence? His intelligence simply said that Hussein had WMD's, and as any responsible president would do he went out to find out if it was true. Bad intelligence maybe, but like you said "good police work is the best way to get things done."

    And lastly, why is it so much bullshit when it is said that somebody hates us because we preach freedom? Have you ever encountered anybody who hated somebody in this country because they were rich?

    You know REALLY hated them, just because they applied themselves and they didn't.

    Well freedom when you don't have it can create a lot of prejudices too. Its basic human nature for most people to be at least a little jealous when they see people having things that they can't have. Ever heard "he's a crook that's why he's so rich."

    Or how about this gem, "if he wasn't kissing the bosses ass so much he'd be nothing."

    Jealousy can very easily turn to hate, and when it comes to freedom I think it's the furthest thing from bullshit when somebody hates because they don't have it.

    Hey was that the latest tape from Bin Laden at 3:38? Sure sounded like him. At least the words were exactly what he's said in the past.

    It had to be as no American would have said those words. Now he's posting. Is there no end to his devious ways?

    Wow. Wolverine, you desperately need to expand your frame of reference. Otherwise, there's not much point in debating with you, since you'll only repeat what you've been told by other people.

    But a couple of quick points anyway:

    --You completely missed the point to my "130,000 troops" comment. I'm actually using that as evidence that the idea we're in the fight for our way of life is BS. When you go to war, the reasons should be self-evident, as they were in WWII. If that had been the case here, the Democrats would have had no reason to "wage war against Bush" as you say. I don't think any reasonable person had a problem with invading Afghanistan. Iraq was another story. Why did they have to spend a year SELLING a war to the American people? And somehow in that amount of time they weren't able to get enough armor for our soldiers before the invasion? We didn't even have an army to speak of before WWII, and built a massive war machine from nothing to overthrow two major world powers in less time than this pointless mess is taking us.

    Also, your claim that Bush wanted more is a total lie. He was told by many of his commanders, General Shinseki for example, before the invasion that he'd need far more troops than they had available. He insisted that wasn't true (there's lots of speculation about why, which I won't get into), and fired everyone who disagreed with him. THEN ironically enough he told the American people he'd listen to the commanders on the ground. Really? He'll listen to his own hand-picked people? What a relief!

    Why not check out what the latest General who's decided to speak out about what was going on has to say about it:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/washington/12cnd-general.html?ex=1349841600&en=85ccf3d5966b8d2b&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

    --As for Bin Laden getting away, I'm not talking about what happened after he got to Pakistan, but why he was able to go there to begin with. We KNEW where he was and had him surrounded on 3 sides, "allowing" the Northern Alliance (who could easily be bribed) to cover the fourth. Oooh, guess what? He bribed them and escaped! As for whether Bush really wants him captured, he himself let slip in a press conference once, "I don't know where he is. To be honest, I don't spend much time on him."

    --Nobody's arguing that Saddam was a great guy, or that he flaunted the UN proposals on many occasions. But the sad truth is in the end, he did cave, including allowing the weapons inspectors to come back in (Bush pulled them out), and turning over some 30,000 pages of documents we were demanding. Yet in about 1 day they turned around and said, "Oh, there's nothing in those documents!" And guess what? The weapons inspectors and economic sanctions, for all of the Republicans joking about them to this day, were successful.

    --"And who said Bush "cherry-picked" his intelligence?"
    Congress and members of the CIA. Google it. You'll find lots of sources.

    --I'd love to explain to you how nuts it is to think that they attacked us for our freedom. Hell, Bin Laden himself made it very clear why he attacked us. But if you want to bury your head in the sand about it like Rudy does instead of listening to people like Ron Paul (the only true conservative running for president right now), who actually know what's going on, be my guest.

    Chiv, We could go on about this endlessly, but I will still refute the most obvious of your misconceptions.

    "A year to sell the war to the American people" is blantantly obvious as "this America" as opposed to the American back in 1941, is an America that is afraid of its own shadow. Back in '41 nobody thought twice about enlisting as the lines were around the corner of every recruting office in the country. Whereas now they are not even allowed on campus.

    With the memories of how a shameful America reacted to Viet Nam back in the 60's, it isn't hard to see why it had to be sold... In '41 no selling was needed, but it would have been needed back then too if the people of today were living in the 40's. .

    As far as letting OSB slip through our hands, it's "damned if you do, and damned if you don't." We take the word of the Muslim people that they know more about their country, (as you stated in your previous post) and then we get screwed. Not President Bush's fault.

    It wasn't that Bush didn't care to get him, as the question was put to him as if that was the ONLY thing he was worried about. His answer was pretty obvious that Bin Laden was not to be looked at as some savior for the terrorists(because it was also obvious that OBL was not the worry that he used to be) but that terrorism all over the world was his biggest concern.

    Those documents were deemed rhetorical by Bush's advisors and the CIA, which in turn led to the attack on Iraq. "Garbage in and garbage out." He was only doing what he was told.

    And now you believe what Bin Laden is telling us? Like what he says I should take as fact? Please, the man will say anything to get his Muslim fanatics to turn against us, and unfortunately a lot of these posts are from Americans themselves who say the exact same things as he does.

    Yes, they hate us because we not only are free, but we want to spread the freedom to other countries as well.

    We are a threat to these fanatics, and we are the only country who seems intent to stop them. I think that is a very reasonable accessment when it comes to why someone would say they hate us.

    Teaching and arming kids from the age of 7 to hate all that is good in the world I think is reason enough to say that they will never accept any kind of peace from us or the free world. It will always be their way or no way.

    Always, unless we get to them first.

    With technology being as it is right now in the 21st century killings of innocent people of all democracies across the world will begin to drastically rise unless these other nations wake up.

    You're right, we could go on forever. Like I said, you need to expand your frame of reference. Even here you've got some pretty blatant oversimplifications. Just like the people who insist that the only reason the Arab world has a problem with us is because we support Israel. I read plenty from both sides, and that's why I'm able to make statements that aren't just regurgitations of talking points. Believe me, I'm more than capable of debunking and pissing of liberals as well. Expand your frame of reference, and you'll be better for it.

    The only thing about your last post I would like to address is your comment of, "And now you believe what Bin Laden is telling us?" Well, at least when it comes to why he attacked, yes. Here's an analogy:

    Let's say I'm screwing a guy's girlfriend. One day the guy comes up and punches me in the face. He then tells me, "I punched you in the face because you're screwing my girlfriend." Now should I believe what he told me, or come up with some other theory, like he's just jealous that I make more money money than him?

    That's basically what happened. We're over there screwing with the internal politics of the region, supporting unpopular governments who oppress their own people, play both sides of wars (Iran-Iraq), take their resources, and had an army base on their holy land. Now he comes along, attacks us and lists all of those things as reasons why he did it. But you're going to turn around and say it's because of our freedom? What a joke.

    "If there weren't any Islamic terrorists in Iraq there wouldn't be any refugees there, either. It's their fault the refugees exist, not ours."

    No, stupid. The 9/11 crew were largely Saudi. A couple of Egyptians.

    None were Iraqis.

    Saddam, while a bastard, was a secularist. Not an 'Islamic Fascist', as you'd have it.

    You're saying it's the Iraqis' fault we started a war with them. You're saying the four million people, civilians, who have been displaced by us throwing their country in to chaos that simply did not exist before we invaded, is *their* fault.

    I see.

    "You complained about the term "Islamic Fascism". Actually they call it "Islamofascism". And that is a stupid term. I hate it. If you have a better one, let's hear it."

    Yeah. Caliphism. Look it up.

    "While our party is the party of "personal responsibility", yours is the party of dingbats who hate our party more than you hate the enemy. That's pretty stupid."

    Yeah. I was mocking you. You're *not* the party of personal responsibility:

    See, nobody on our side outs our CIA operatives for something as pedestrian as expanding a grip on Congressional power.

    Nobody.

    They won't say, "Anybody in my administration found to be involved in this kind of leak will be taken care of." and then commute the felony conviction.

    You can say, 'oh, she was a secretary'.

    She wasn't. She was a NOC CIA operative, specializing in WMD's. If you want a copy of the CIA criminal referral to the DOJ, not a problem...in case you're still in the dark about what actually happened.

    You can say 'nobody was convicted', but they were.

    I fear no Arabic terrorist (on the other side of the Atlantic) half so much as our own domestic brand of religious fundamentalist nutjob, and the Machiavellian Mayberries who cynically pander to them.

    "White Muslims in Darfur are killing and oppressing black Christians."

    Rico, if you were any more stupid, you'd need a dribble cup:

    The conflict in Darfur consists of Arab Muslims (the Janjaweed Bagarra) against an amalgam of tribes, all black African, and all Muslim (The Fur, the Zaghawa, and Massaleit tribes).

    Your little Christian persecution fantasy does not apply in Darfur.

    The conflict is the direct result of decades of drought, desertification and overpopulation. The lack of basic resources is causing a migratory conflict that's resulting in ethnic cleansing.

    THAT's why Gore got the Nobel Prize. Because Darfurs are going to keep happening, more and more often, and get a lot worse, if we stand by and do nothing.

    Which, as far as I can tell, is your party's official position on this issue:

    Do nothing.

    Some moralists you turned out to be.

    Yeah, I just saw that Gitell thing. Absolutely amazing. I was really getting to the point when I didn't think any kind of BS from that side could shock me, but I was wrong. I really wanted to laugh my ass off at him, but I've seen a little too much to realize that waaay to many people are going to believe every word he's slinging there.

    Broadsword,

    So you are saying there would be how many refugees in Iraq if there were no terrorists there?

    Saddam was taken out because he did not fully comply with the UN Security Resolutions on WMDs. If had had done so, he would still be in charge. And there would be no refugees then, right? It's all his fault, then.

    Saddam was a "secularist"? So what? He is the pre-eminent Islamic terrorist in human history. If any other Muslim has killed more Muslims than Saddam, then give us the name and how many more that person had killed than Saddam.

    You forgot to tell us if I was wrong when I said you hate us more than you hate the enemy. You do hate the enemy, don't you? Hold it-who do you say is the enemy, anyways?

    So the killing in Darfur is not the fault of any human beings in Darfur doing the killing? It's somebody else's fault. Our fault? WTF? I guess you qualify as a textbook "progressive" then. I prefer the word "dingbat".

    So the general presiding over a horrendous civil war of our own making, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and the displacement of millions more, not to mention the deaths of more than 3,800 American troops should be given the Peace Prize???

    I don’t think that even Orwell could have imagined FOX News.

    Posted by: at October 14, 2007 9:11 PM

    The general is directly responsible? Hundreds of thousands? Source? Rosie O? I'm guessing you cheered when Yasir Arafat was handed the award? As far as diminishing al gorey, how long did that take, 30 seconds? Less?

    Methinks sour grapes and jealousy, just one simple question.

    Would Algore prefer to be Mr President or "Mr Nobel Laureate" and which would you prefer?

    Grammie

    The Nobel Peace Prize is something that leftists give to other leftists for doing leftist stuff. How original.

    It should be changed to "Dingbat of the Year Award".

    Remember when Jimmy Carter got his Nobel?

    "[The award] should be interpreted as a criticism of the line that the current administration has taken," Gunnar Berge, the chairman of the Nobel committee, said.

    The people who give out the Nobel aren't even pretending that they are serious anymore.

    Grammie,

    Help! I've got a dingbat on my tail!

    Grammie, Cecelia,

    Have you seen this? http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/washington/14cnd-turkey.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

    Backdoor withdrawal of troops by Pelosi et al?

    Sharon,

    Evidently, Pelosi doesn't just throw up her hands and sigh over gridlock when it comes to non-binding resolutions.

    Especially when one may cause some interesting consquences without disrupting her CYA...

    I think I saw that the bill was introduced in January of 2007. I haven't closely examined the history but something is starting to stink. This could be the biggest story of the war. Am I being melodramatic?

    Ron Paul did not vote. (wonder why?) There were several R who voted for it and some Ds who voted against it. That tells me that this is controversial. I wonder which of the voters are seeking re-election?

    I think I saw that the bill was introduced in January of 2007. I haven't closely examined the history but something is starting to stink. This could be the biggest story of the war. Am I being melodramatic?

    Posted by: Sharon at October 15, 2007 12:38 AM


    I don't think you're being melodramatic, there's some real reasons to be concerned here.

    A lot of it is contingent on what the Dems are wanting from Bush in order to make the resolution go away.

    According to the article, the relationship is already in danger. This seems to be such a key event for future consequences. Have you noticed that news out of Iraq has taken an upward turn? Timing of the push for the measure? I am not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, just musing.

    Sharon,

    And you'd rather not have Turkey invade Northern Iraq? :D

    It will take me awhile but the first two names I looked at, Dana Rohrbacher and Ed Royce are likely seeking re-election 2008. There may be a better way to find out than my method. I am going to check a few more before shutting down for the night.

    That issue has been background noise for a few years. Now, how do you convince Turkey not to invade Northern Iraq with the impact of the genocide legislation? It seems to me that when Turkey would not allow the 4th Infantry Division access to Iraq, the absence of those troops was felt. Remember the looting? More boots could have helped maintain better control. It was that division that captured Saddam. That brings up another controversy, their hard handed methods.
    I digress.

    Christopher Smith (R- NJ) seat up for re-election
    Gus Bilirakis (R Florida) running for re-election

    More to go but I need some zzzs.

    Rico, you're so cute when you fumble around after getting your ass kicked.

    'So you are saying there would be how many refugees in Iraq if there were no terrorists there?"

    Get this straight; it was our invading Iraq that made the country a terrorist magnet. People are going on religious pilgrimages so they can die martyrs there. That's YOUR fault.

    Had we not invaded, had we maintained our containment policy, there would be ZERO refugees from Iraq. How are you not understanding that?

    "Saddam was taken out because he did not fully comply with the UN Security Resolutions on WMDs. If had had done so, he would still be in charge. And there would be no refugees then, right? It's all his fault, then."

    It must be nice to live in your warm little denial bubble. Here's how Iraq actually went down, without the UN authorizing invasion:

    "After considerable debate, the U.N. Security Council adopted a compromise resolution, 1441, which authorized the resumption of weapons inspections and promised "serious consequences" for noncompliance. Security Council members France and Russia made clear that they did not believe these consequences to include the use of force to overthrow the Iraqi government. Both the U.S. ambassador to the UN, John Negroponte, and the UK ambassador Jeremy Greenstock publicly confirmed this reading of the resolution, assuring that Resolution 1441 provided no "automaticity" or "hidden triggers" for an invasion without further consultation of the Security Council.

    "In February 2003, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell addressed the United Nations General Assembly, continuing U.S. efforts to gain U.N. authorization for an invasion. Powell presented evidence alleging that Iraq was actively producing chemical and biological weapons and had ties to Iraq and al-Qaeda, claims that have since been widely discredited. As a follow-up to Powell’s presentation, the United States, United Kingdom, and Spain proposed a UN Resolution authorizing the use of force in Iraq, but U.S. NATO allies Canada, France, and Germany, together with Russia, strongly urged continued diplomacy. Facing a losing vote as well as a likely veto from France and Russia, the U.S. eventually withdrew its resolution.

    With the failure of its resolution, the U.S. and UK abandoned the Security Council procedures and decided to pursue the invasion without U.N. authorization, a decision of questionable legality under international law. This decision was widely unpopular worldwide, and opposition to the invasion coalesced on February 15 in a worldwide anti-war protest that attracted big between six and ten million people in more than 800 cities, the largest such protest in human history according to the Guinness Book of World Records.

    In March 2003, the United States began preparing for the invasion of Iraq, with a host of public relations, and military moves. In his March 17, 2003 address to the nation, Bush demanded that Hussein and his two sons Uday and Qusay surrender and leave Iraq, giving them a 48-hour deadline.Iraq rejected this demand, maintaining that it had already disarmed as required.On March 20, 2003, the invasion of Iraq by the United States and its allies began, without UN support, unlike the first Gulf War or the invasion of Afghanistan.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#Prelude_to_the_invasion

    Q: How many Republicans does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

    1. One to deny that the light bulb needs to be changed

    2. One to attack the patriotism of anyone who says the light bulb needs to be changed.

    3. One to blame Clinton for burning out the light bulb.

    4. One to tell the nations of the world that they are either for changing the light bulb or for darkness.

    5. One to give a billion dollar no-bid/cost-plus contract to Halliburton for the new light bulb.

    6. One to arrange a photograph of Bush, dressed as a janitor, standing on a stepladder under the
    banner: "Light Bulb Change Accomplished."

    7. One administration insider to resign and write a book documenting in detail how Bush was literally in the dark.

    8. One to viciously smear #7.

    9. One surrogate to campaign on TV and at rallies on how George Bush has had a strong light bulb changing policy all along.

    10. Finally, Joe Lieberman to confuse Americans about the difference between screwing the light bulb and screwing the country.

    11. One to create new tax breaks for the manufacturer of the light bulb to move its factories overseas.

    12. One to suggest that layed-off American lightbulb makers train their foreign replacements.

    13. One to change the name of “ light bulb” to “Devine-Light Bulb From Above”.

    14. One to create a Constitutional Amendment banning “gays” from screwing in bulbs.

    15. One to promote the “trickle down light” theory, where poor people get scraps of light from bulbs exclusively screwed by the rich.

    16. "We would not comment on, confirm, or deny, any elements of our lightbulb changing procedures in the interest of maintaining the operational security and integrity of said procedures, if in fact those procedures exist...
    ...but we've heard Valerie Plame does it sometimes. Next question..."

    17. One to represent the "Light Bulb Twisters for Truth and Justice" in their claim that Thomas Edison was actually out of the country when the light bulb was invented, and that he was in fact a cowardly traitor, incapable of twisting, let alone inventing a light bulb.

    Light bulbs, BS?

    Grammie

    18. One blue blog writer who is roughly one man with a bit of originality, to thirty million unoriginal blue blog readers, who then cut-n-paste HIS words/instructions for future reference all over the internet...


    and so it goes....

    Broadsword,

    Just by coincidence, Iraq has always been in my "top five" list of countries where I would like to see people desiring to "die martyrs" to do so. The USA is in my "bottom five" list. What countries are your top and bottom five?

    Are you suggesting that France and Russia were against the war against Saddam? I am so shocked at that. France, always Saddam's best friend in Western Europe, going back decades, was most complicite in the Food for Oil program. Don't forget that nuclear reactor they built for Iraq, destroyed by Israel in 1981. France had a sweetheart deal with Saddam in which, when sanctions were dropped against Iraq, France would be back in business with their longtime friend. It was all about the oil, man! The USSR was also a good benefactor to Saddam, going back decades. So it is no surprise that Putin didn't want to see Saddam brought down. If you love you some Vladimir, that's your choice. Just don't criticize him publicly or you might start to glow in the dark.

    You're not Howie Klein are you Broadsword?

    It was all about the oil, man!

    Posted by: Rico at October 15, 2007 1:50 AM


    There, that wasn't so hard was it?

    Thought I did. My bad.

    Sorry Grammie. The brevity of your response is a testament to the accuracy of the light bulb jokes.

    I forgot #19. Make damn sure the lightbulb changer's kids can't get health insurance.

    How refreshing to hear a republican admit that it's all about the oil, Rico.

    Broadsword,

    It was about the oil for Jacque Chirac's France, Dumbfuck.

    >>Are you suggesting that France and Russia were against the war against Saddam? I am so shocked at that. France, always Saddam's best friend in Western Europe, going back decades, was most complicite in the Food for Oil program. Don't forget that nuclear reactor they built for Iraq, destroyed by Israel in 1981. France had a sweetheart deal with Saddam in which, when sanctions were dropped against Iraq, France would be back in business with their longtime friend. It was all about the oil, man! The USSR was also a good benefactor to Saddam, going back decades. So it is no surprise that Putin didn't want to see Saddam brought down. If you love you some Vladimir, that's your choice. Just don't criticize him publicly or you might start to glow in the dark.

    Yeah, even Cheney got in on it through a French subsidiary of Haliburton, son...

    Your Honor, the dingbat witnesses are all non-responsive about the actions of France and the USSR/Russia towards Saddam the last 30 years.

    "Sustained", sayeth the judge.


    rico,

    And, we WEREN'T an ally of Saddam under Reagan and most of Bush sr, son?

    Obviously, recent history is not your strong suit...

    Rico,

    Oh, so for US it's about freedom and democracy, not the oil. Riiiiiiight.

    Leave a new comment