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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    November 2, 2007
    Countdown with Keith Olbermann - November 2, 2007

    Host: Keith Olbermann

    Topics/Guests:

    • WATERBOARDING AND THE AG: Richard Wolffe, Newsweek
    • "MISTER" BUSH AND "MISTER" CHENEY:
    • BARRY BONDS: The interview that got away
    • KEITH OLBERMANN'S SPECIAL APOLOGY

    Another opening spiel (Broken Government [Ding!]) but who cares? Tonight brings us yet a stirring, spectacular victory for the power and influence of Olbermann Watch. It's cause for celebration on another casual Friday at Olbermann Watch.

    Bathtub Boy

    #5: Goundhog Day on OlbyPlanet: waterboarding again. A bombshell ABC News report that blows the lid off torture! Olby finds it "infuriating" that the AG nominee will be nominated. Clip of anti-AG Leahy (D); zero clips of pro-AG Senators, not even the (D)s. The Wolffe Man simpered and, with Olby, got in a few shots at Giuliani. Probably to make up for the Victory for Olbermann Watch, coming any minute now. Great thanks.

    Next another meeting of Olbermann's Criminal Rehabilitation Program, featuring its star student, disbarred lawyer John Dean. It's Fun with Felons. Nixon! [Ding!] The criminal whined that Dems won't stand up and block the AG nomination. Since he parroted OlbySpin, he was Great Thanksed.

    #4: Politics of war. Horrors: Cheney said Peru instead of Venezuela! (Blue Blog Source: Think Progress) Hey Bathman, you're one to talk. At least Cheney knows the difference between Assad and Bin Laden. (A small preview of the upcoming Victory for Olbermann Watch.) Clips of Bush, interspersed with propaganda from Merkle. Clips of Cheney, interspersed with propaganda from Merkle. Why are we getting this drivel when we could be enjoying the Victory for Olbermann Watch?

    After an attack on Chris Wallace of Fixed Noise [Ding!] came #3: Politics. The Dem position on Iran is "legitimate". Clinton and Obama in a spat. Plug for Rudi getting all three "worst persons" slots. Now we know Herr Olbermoronn is going over the top to counteract the Victory for Olbermann Watch.

    #2: More of the Barry Bonds interview that Keith didn't get. #1: A month's worth of oddball.

    In the Media Matters Minute, we don't even care that Keith Oralmann gave all three positions to Giuliani, because we know why he did--to ameliorate the effect of his weasely convoluted apologia for lying about Rudy. In another example of something his producers forced him to do, Monkeymann did admit: "We followed the reporting of the Associated Press..." Yeah, and you ran the actual video that proved it wrong and still didn't tell the truth about it. Fat Ass backpedaled about "mitigating circumstances" (because it took the AP two days to correct the story), claimed the video shows why there was "confusion" (it didn't), and used the "fake but accurate" defense, actually claiming his reporting was "surprisingly accurate"! Finally, he forced it out: "To him, and to you, I apologize." [video courtesy of Inside Cable News]


    Regardless of all the excuses and irrelevancies surrounding it, that is another Victory for Olbermann Watch!

    Keith Limpermann

    If it's Friday, it's our weekly assessment of Krazy Keith's masculinity. This week Monkeymann attacked Fox and other broadcasters 15 times. Olby's source (Hillary Clinton's Media Matters) criticized (MS)NBC 12 times, but again, Keithy protected his corporate masters with zero criticisms. That makes this week's Olbermann Manhood Quotient: -30 [eunuch limp].

    MisterMeter

    Olbermann's book The book that bears Olbermann's name sunk to #33,652 on amazon, while "Culture Warrior" is #4,948. (It's that 2-for-$25 sale!) Barnes & Noble has the OlbyTome down to #87,601; O'Reilly's book is #2,254 there,--and it's now out in paperback! Amazon lists the Culture Warrior paperback at #372, while the paperback edition of Oralmann's book is, um, well it's sitting on some hypothetical shelf, right next to a first edition of If You're Scoring at Home...Even If You're Alone. On Thursday the infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann finished a poor third in total viewers and a distant second in the coveted, pivotal, much-beloved, critical, all-important "key demo". Tonight's MisterMeter reading: 6 [ELEVATED]


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (175) | | View blog reactions

    175 Comments

    An half-ass apology and still nothing about a Clinton supporter calling for Tim Russert to be shot...The new "Murrow" shines again. LOL

    It was a very, very insincere "apology." KO then used it to attack Giuliani three times in his "Worst Person in the World." Olbermann has no class.

    Congrats to Olbermann Watch, but the "aplogy" was very, very lame.

    It was a very, very insincere "apology." KO then used it to attack Giuliani three times in his "Worst Person in the World." Olbermann has no class.

    Congrats to Olbermann Watch, but the "apology" was very, very lame.

    Notice how angry Keith got at Chris "Monkey" Wallace for reporting that troop deaths in Iraq were at their lowest levels in almost two years. I guess Keith doesn't like hearing good news from the "unwinnable" war in Iraq.

    Wow, what a cheap apology! Of course he had to bad mouth Rudy for the rest of the show. Shows what a poor loser he is. He will be on Rudy's ass even more for a while. Also will be on Bill's because he actually has TWO books on the bestsellers list now. You gotta love it! One other thing....if any other person other than his bitch Hillary said that about Russert, how badly would bathtub boy be going after them. Even you Keithy lovers out there that show your ignorance here every night have to admit that. But of course you won't............

    This guy is just like BJ Clinton. Send an armed thug to the hotel lobby to drag her up to your room to perform fellatio. When she refuses and leaves, that makes BJ the victim. Same with Queef. His lie blows up in his face, so it's Giuliani's fault. What a whiny, petty individual.

    Thanks to one of the loons for pointing out KO's nepotism at MSNBC.

    " So Katy's dad's show "Why They Run" is now a regular MSNBC "New Series"?

    Wonder how that little situation was arranged.

    Maybe his daughter helped him get his foot in the network door?"

    The only people confused about what Rudy actually said were Olby and Zsa-Zsa Huffpo. What a half-assed so-called "apology". More lies, as usual.

    The look on his face as he forced those words, "To him, and to you, I apologize." Priceless! He paused for just a second before he said them..."I can't believe I'm saying this" he was clearly thinking.

    J$ maybe you could start a small spinoff website: OlbermannApologyWatch.com

    roflcopter

    Or she got her strap-on into the back door?

    Johnny:

    Olbermoronn did not finish "a poor second once again." Olbermoronn finished a humiliating third once again behind something called CNN Special Investigations Unit.

    November 2, 2007

    8PM - P2+
    O'Reilly Factor- 2,723,000 viewers;
    CNN Special Investigations Unit - 816,000 viewers;
    Countdown w/ Olbermann - 793,000 viewers.

    Thanks, Tom. Corrected. And video of Olbermoronn's convoluted, self-serving "apology" added.

    Maybe after this error KO and his producers won't just simply take whatever Media Matters or Think Progress (or even the wire services) throws out and repeat it on air.

    Y'know, do some original research? Check the allegations. Go to original sources (like transcripts, tapes). Interview people?

    It's called NEWS REPORTING.

    Right, who am I kidding.

    KO is little more than the leftwing equivalent of a rightwing radio talk show host.

    If you believe anything either of them says, you're doing yourself a disservice.

    I just watched the "apology" again. He had to be forced to do this. The whole way he went about it showed exactly how much class this bastard has. Hey Democrats, this idiot is pretty much what clear minded Americans think of when the word lilberal is used.

    An earlier poster was correct. Keith can't stand reporting good news from Iraq. Its nice to know how much NBC wants America to lose a war.

    Keith's apology was really lame
    Olby's right and the AP's to blame
    He kept a straight face
    It might take first place
    In Keith's "Apology Hall Of Fame"

    I know this is completely off topic but I just read it and have to share.

    At NewsBusters there is thread titled:

    Circumcision on the Decline in Africa Due to Global Warming

    "Maybe the finest example of Global Warming Derangement Syndrome to date is the claim by an Australian mammologist and paleontologist that climate change has reduced circumcision rates in Africa."

    I kid you not.

    Grammie

    No more crewnecks in Africa due to global warming? What a mess.

    Olbermann could not even tell the truth in his appology to Rudy. Olbermann said the he mis-quoted Giuliani "On this NEWSCAST". Why would he lie and call his propaganda hour a newscast.

    Dora the Explorer is less childish than the host of "Countdown". I'm sure if Keith could get away with it, he'd name Giuliani Worst Person in the NFL on Sunday night during the Cowboys-Eagles game, and then give him three more selections on Monday, unless he decides to return to his oh-so mature one-way feud with Bill O'Reilly.

    Not long ago KO did a lame, soft ball, interview with Valerie Plame. I notice that her book is nowhere to be seen of the best seller list (anyone's list). Obviously, the American public consider her about as important as her husband!

    Anonymous once again denies reality....Fewer American men and women in uniform dying in defending freedom and democracy in Iraq is good news AND means something more beneficial for all freedom loving people everywhere.....The surge, which was declared a failure out of hand and without evidence by the leftist ruling class, is successful and making an impact. Oh well, more deaths would have been good news to the left....they did not get that news, and hense are upset....

    Anon, the totalitarian islamic terrorists have killed less American troops....Does that not mean freedom is winning and opression is losing? Does that not represent a good thing? Are you so blindied by your hatred of George Bush that you cannot be glad less people were killed that are fighting for political and religious liberty?

    And now onto the real reason for this post....

    HA HA HA....Keith Olbermann is a pathetic person.....He ran the actual tape of Giuliani's comments and did not put the graphic of the AP quote on screen when he and Zsa Zsa repeatedly said Giuliani said "Osama." They both have no basis to claim they were only using the AP quote because they actually ran the tape and commented after that....what liars.

    In addition, his claim that Giluiani's quote stands even with "Osama" removed is false because he and Zsa Zsa specifically criticized Giuliani ONLY about mentioning Osama after the clip was run....not "terrorists."

    Anyone who believes Olbermann has a shread of journalistic credibility is a blind partisan. This was no apology.....this was more partisan lies to advance the leftist agenda....Congratulations to NBC for fine journalistic standards!

    "Kucinich Will Introduce Privileged Resolution To Force Up Or Down Vote On Cheney Impeachment"

    http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=77847


    ###
    Hurrah!....Finally! The American left will get what they want! A chance to expose the illegality of The Bush Administration and the removal of Darth Vader!

    What will the leftist ruling class do?.....This is NOT PART OF THE SCRIPT! Remember Madam Speaker's famous line?....

    “I have said it before and I will say it again: Impeachment is off the table.”

    What is a rabid, foaming at the mouth, leftist to do? These criminals must be stopped, but the power structure is protecting the frauds and liars?

    Oh no!

    Will radical leftist partisan Keith Olbermann come to the rescue with a SPECIAL COMMENT this week repeating his demand to the executives to resign? Will he go off the HRC reservation and support an impeachment debate?

    Oh dear....the leftist ruling elite will have to vote and declare support or nonsupport for the legality of Cheney's actions! Their past rhetoric seems to suggest they have to vote for impeachment (words like "unconstituional" make it hard to say impeachment is not appropriate)....but the "Hillary for President" script demands otherwise.....

    What to do, what to do?....

    And still, Bush awaits for an answer from the leftist ruling elite on war funding.

    STOP THE WAR.....CUT THE FUNDS NOW!
    STOP THE CRIMINALS.....IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY NOW!

    And this is my post today, the 1,648th day since the declaration of Mission Accomplished in Iraq.....

    I am cee, good night and good luck.

    "I'd tell you that the Democrats are talking a good game, but they're not even doing that. Everybody in Congress has to understand something: If they continue to fund this war, it's not just the President who owns it. They own it, too." Sgt. Liam Madden

    "There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration's policies in Iraq. Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back." NYT 1/28/07

    "I think the Vietnamese are better off in Vietnam," George McGovern - NEWSWEEK

    "Lefties: Leave these pathetic drowning rats alone to stew in each other's juices. Get yourselves out in the street and fight this criminal administration in ways that really mean something, and that are noted by more than a handful of keyboard heroes!" Sir Loin of Beef

    "American liberals need to face these truths: The demand for self-government was and remains strong in Iraq despite all our mistakes and the violent efforts of al Qaeda, Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias to disrupt it." DEMOCRAT Bob Kerrey

    "If we end up saying that because these people are committing these acts of terrorism in Iraq or Afghanistan, that we shouldn't have done the removal of Saddam or the removal of the Taliban, then we are making a fundamental mistake about our own future, about security, about the values we should be defending in the world." TONY BLAIR

    "You can't bring the troops home if you give George Bush $100 billion to wage this war. You're not supporting them. You're keeping them in harm's way." CINDY SHEEHAN

    "There is no doubt ... that Al Qaeda is operating in Iraq. There is no doubt that we've had to take very strong measures against them. And there is no doubt that the Iraqi security forces have got to be strong enough to be able to withstand not just the violence that has been between the Sunni and the Shia population and the Sunni insurgency, but also Al Qaeda itself." GORDON BROWN

    "People of America: the world is following your news in regards to your invasion of Iraq, for people have recently come to know that, after several years of tragedies of this war, the vast majority of you want it stopped. Thus, you elected the Democratic Party for this purpose, but the Democrats haven't made a move worth mentioning. On the contrary, they continue to agree to the spending of tens of billions to continue the killing and war there." OSAMA BIN LADEN

    "Al Qaeda really hurt us, but not as much as Rupert Murdoch has hurt us, particularly in the case of Fox News. Fox News is worse than Al Qaeda--worse for our society. It's as dangerous as the Ku Klux Klan ever was."
    KEITH OLBERMANN

    "Thinking such as your's is a cancer on our nation that needs to be cut out." MIKE posted 10/4/07 7:02PM

    Excellent job, Katy. You deserve the Nobel Prize for poetry.

    The petulant man-child's "apology" was half-hearted at best. When will his loyal minions realize he's a sloppy, lazy "journalist." He could hardly wait to get his micophone off last night and get away from his desk. Guess it just about killed him to have to says he's sorry.

    It will be interesting to see his ratings for Friday since some viewers just tuned in to see the apology? I did. Honestly, I believe if he thought he could increase numbers that way he'd apologize every night.

    One of the fangirl sites is calling the apology his "gracious retraction." When will reality set in for these loons?

    The fact that his loyal viewers didn't catch the discrepancy between what he and Huffington said and the actual tape in front of them says they blindly follow.

    So Keith and Huff had long segment on what Giuliani didn't say and we get a cheap, low class and childish apology.
    The man can even fuss up to his own mistakes like an adult.
    Then he spends hours on a topic that was semi-interesting a year ago, water boarding.
    With all that's going on in the world Keith pics water boarding, attacking the president and personnel attacks on Giuliani, as his nightly topics.
    Keith's show is not and never has been real news, to me it satire, without the laughter.
    When I think about Keith's show I would have to lump him in with Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert.
    Keith's show and ratings seriously can't be compared to CNN or Fox. It has to put in it's correct category with The Daily Show and Colbert Report.

    The Olbyloons DO blindly follow Olbermann. they lap up every word of what HuffPost, Daily Kos, Media Matters and the rest say as if it was the gospel, and never once question it's authenticity. Then they have the nerve to complain about Fox? But that just shows you their disconnect from the real world and why they've lost the last 2 elections.

    And there's no doubt how Robert Tur got his series picked up by MSNBC: he pimped his daughter out to save his floundering career and rescue his precarious financial situation.

    you said it Joe. Olbermutt's show is not "news" at
    all, it's just Bush and Republican bashing. You will never hear a bad thing about Dems. on his joke news hour. And he actually has the balls to say that Fox News is a station that is run by right
    wingers. Right, you 4 eyed freak, there's no sense of biased opinions on M-mess NBC. Lay off the litltle blue pill dude, you're going crazy.

    Wasn't Valerie Plame on Bill Maher's show last night? I can't believe she is still pimping her book of pathetic fairy tales.

    Oh dear, mental midget claims as fact the conspiracy touted by Mr and Mrs. Joe Wilson that The Bush administration atrgeted her to silence him.....Evidence please?

    Dear mental midget swallows the pathetic partisan Joe Wilson's line while there still is no evidence such a plan was hatched....In fact, the "players" have never been shown to have conspired with the deare Scooter Libby never even being charged with leaking classified information....he was only convicted of procedural crimes dealing with the investigation....

    How about some proof other than the word of someone who intends to make money on the issue by writing a book, mental midget....Also....what about the fact that Mr. Armitage was Novack's source and he seems like an unlikely part of a Bush/Cheney conspiracy?

    Mental midget once again shows his stupidity.....And the fact that Plame's novel is languishing is testiment that her fairy tales only concern partisan hacks like you and Keith Olbermann.

    Move on, mm.....Plamegate failed as did your leftist ruling class attempt at stopping the AG nominee, as will the impeachment push next week as will changing the course in Iraq, as will SCHIP demagoguery....

    Oh, and what about HRC?.....she had a really good week, heh mental midget?

    I cross-posted this at Inside Cable News:

    The “apology” does not address the main issue:

    KO used the AP as a source without acknowledgment, but he did show the recording of what Rudy said. Therefore, I do not see how he can claim anything against AP: He was pretending to use the video as his source.

    And, I do not see what relevance there is to how long it took AP to correct their mistake, nor is there any “confusion” nor should KO have apologized for the AP.

    "You'd like to think Countdown isn't news, but of course it is. It's just news you don't want to hear.
    The waterboarding segment was excellent."
    "And Johnny 2 Cents making excuses for Cheney not knowing the difference between Peru and Venezuela was revealing to say the least."
    Posted by: Why don't you think

    It's news I don't want to hear every night over and over again.
    If Keith is repeating it every night then it's not news it's an agenda. A tired one at that.

    The waterboarding segment was a year to late.
    How about Keith do a segment on our enemies cutting off innocent people's heads and taping it so their loves ones can see it.
    And he's complaining about waterboarding!?

    And Cheney saying Peru and not Venezuela was funny.
    That's why The Daily Show, Colbert Report and Keith gave it more time then it deserved.

    Because Keith is really satire and not news.

    KO was attempting to cover his incredibly big ass with that so-called apology. Taking that literally or figuratively, it's an impossible job.
    MSM, you're absolutely right. The AP error had nothing to do with KO and AH misquoting RG when all he had to do was look at the video. Wasn't his objection to the quote on the video to begin with? Passing it off on AP was lame. Even trying to make AP share the blame with him is cowardly. A true journalist would have caught the AP error and acknowledged that. Sloppy work all around.

    Can you imagine if the news writers at NBC and MSNBC go on strike, as they are threatening to do at CBS and ABC. KO's followers repeatedly say he writes all of Countdown, which can't be true. Sometimes he obviously doesn't even read the copy before the show as he makes mistakes going into it cold.; it looks like a giant surprise to him. So what will he do if there's no one there to write for him?

    "How about Keith do a segment on our enemies cutting off innocent people's heads and taping it so their loves ones can see it.
    And he's complaining about waterboarding!?"

    You idiots are always wrong about EVERYTHING, which makes you the best nonintentional comedians going !


    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 3, 2007 10:37 AM


    What ever you do, keep getting your *news* from Maher. It shows in your posts. I hear he had to apologise to the loony left for throwing some of them off his comedy show. Too damn funny!

    Having idiots like Olby on the left is the best thing that ever happened to the right.

    "When the Senior Bush Official had himself water-boarded and found the practice "terrifying" and tortuous and summarily fired, THAT didn't open your eyes?"
    Posted by: Why don't you think at

    And that's the problem with how Keith reports the story.
    He is making out to be that Senior Bush official was fired because of his findings.
    Was he? Or do you believe everything he media says?
    Maybe if Keith had the Senior Bush official on his show that would have been a good segment.

    But the way the story was done by Keith just shows his program isn't hard hitting news at all.

    Congrats to those at Olbywatch for allowing the truth about "The Deplorable One" to incubate in this important public forum.

    News NBC has a new brand...
    Al Jazeera @ 30 Rock.

    But Clearly, not everyone there is a nincompoop as evidenced by the forced fake apology directive. Someone above the boy-child abrams made the call to cut off what is left off of Olby's manhood.

    Little Feechie

    Tony Snow received a Freedom of Speech Award several weeks ago from The Media Institute.

    His acceptance speech is the best essay I have ever read on the condition of the media industry and the underlying causes.

    It is well worth, I think, the five or so minutes it takes to read.

    http://www.mediainstitute.org/banquet2007/speeches/snow_20071016.pdf

    Sorry, no excerpts. It is in PDF and won't copy.

    Grammie

    Is there any doubt that Olbermann is a genuine 24 karat phoney??

    First he issues a so-called apology to Mayor Giuliani, then goes and declares that Giuliani is the third, second and the first "Worst Person In The World".

    Just how much more childish and petulant can one get??

    FrankTheTank, hereafter to be FTT for me b/c I don't know how to type, just give it a week or two and I have no doubt that he will sink even lower.

    Grammie

    Olbermann, take heed:
    HERALD SUN ( Austrailia's biggest selling paper) THERE is a reason Iraq has almost disappeared as an election issue. Here it is: The battle is actually over. Iraq has been won.

    I know this will seem to many of you an insane claim. Ridiculous!

    After all, haven’t you read countless stories that Iraq is a “disaster”, turned by a “civil war” into a “killing field”?

    Didn’t Labor leader Kevin Rudd, in one of his few campaign references to Iraq, say it was the “greatest . . . national security policy disaster that our country has seen since Vietnam”?

    You have. And you have been misled.

    Here is just the latest underreported news, out this week.

    Just 27 American soldiers were killed in action in Iraq in October—the lowest monthly figure since March last year. (This is a provisional figure and may alter over the next week.)

    The number of Iraqi civilians killed last month—mostly by Islamist and fascist terrorists—was around 760, according to Iraqi Government sources. That is still tragically high, but the monthly toll has plummeted since January’s grim total of 1990.

    What measures of success do critics of Iraq’s liberation now demand?

    Violence is falling fast. Al Qaida has been crippled. The Shiites, Kurds and Marsh Arabs no longer face genocide.

    What’s more, the country has stayed unified. The majority now rules. Despite that, minority Sunni leaders are co-operating in government with Shiite ones. There is no civil war. The Kurds have not broken away. Iran has not turned Iraq into its puppet.

    And the country’s institutions are getting stronger. The Iraqi army is now at full strength, at least in numbers. The country has a vigorous media. A democratic constitution has been adopted and backed by a popular vote. Election after election has Iraqis turning up in their millions.

    Add it all up. Iraq not only remains a democracy, but shows no sign of collapse. I repeat: the battle for a free Iraq has been won.

    "You idiots are always wrong about EVERYTHING, which makes you the best nonintentional comedians going !"

    Yes Folks! This comes from a person who takes many drugs and belives everything from the mouth of a man that runs headfirst into Subway polls.

    Need we say more?

    Yes! I can picture it now! Back in the day when the doctor came after the birth of WDYT and said to his Mom & Dad.

    Congratulations Mr. & Ms. WDYT!

    It's Meatloaf!

    GEORGE BUSH! Stop the war on drugs and keep you're hands off WDYT's stash!


    Why did KO wait till Friday, the night when his ratings are usually the lowest, to give his apology? Just saying . . .

    Ed Said: "Having idiots like Olby on the left is the best thing that ever happened to the right."

    Amen

    Not that I care; but I do enjoy rattling cages on both sides of the aisle.

    As for you insecure idiots...

    Be sure to pay homage to the patron saint of perpetuating idiocy.

    If the writers go on strike, will MSNBC have to replace CircleJerk with Keith Olbermann with reality programming?

    I'm sure KO would get a hoot out of that one too, if he lowered himself to go to this site.

    Posted by: at November 4, 2007 1:49 AM


    Olbermann doesn't have to visit this site in order to shoot his mouth off at his critics.

    He's got syncophants who do that for him.

    I'd be surprised i he got a hoot out of anything here. Nothing very enlightening or clever by the FRWRs. As usual.

    1:49, we are sure that Olby visits this site. His ego, vanity and insecurity know no bounds. He knows every word that is written about him on the Internet.

    Gee, I wonder what Olby's fellow Football Night in America analysts think about his latest hate-filled, slanderous outburst against Giuliani during the non-apology? Oh, I forgot - they already can't stand Olbytard. It's just another day for them.

    I hope Cris is ready to unload on Olby tonight - that is, if Olby has the guts to show up for work. Maybe he's sulking in the tub after reading all of the well-earned abuse being hurled at him.

    As part of its "Green Week" NBC plans to dim the lights tonight during its airing of "Football Night in America" and during its halftime show of the Cowboys-Eagles game to show the network's commitment to advancing awareness of global warming.

    As much problem as I've had with NBC News and the direction its taken in the past four years, all is forgiven with the network if someone in the control room for NBC Sports decides to dim the lights tonight while Keith is talking. If they dim the sound too I'll even go stock up on GE energy-saving fluorescent light bulbs.

    Having fans is something you would know nothing about.
    Staying up drunk all night, now there you are an expert !

    Posted by: at November 4, 2007 9:53 AM


    I sure hope you don't go out in public braggin you're an olbyloon. You get knocked out if you did that around here!

    Couple of Random Thoughts...actually 3

    1st - Fairness Doctrine applies to over the air TV and Radio, not cable. Reason being is that airwaves belong to the public and broadcasters are charged to serve the "public interest convenience and necessity" as defined by the FCC.

    Cable finks like Olbermann would not be held to this standard, in the unlikely event it was adopted.

    2nd - Brian Williams did a great job on Saturday Night Live. He must hold his noze every time he appears on Olby's show to prop up the leftist hack.

    3rd - NBC News is Al Jazeera @ 30 Rock.

    12:10: One dim bulb deserves another. Good suggestion. Cut the lights and the mic on Olby as a public service to the nation.

    FNA-LF, I thought the Fairness Doctrine only applied to radio?

    By over the air TV exactly what are you talking about. Does that mean stations that are available without cable, such as major networks and PBS were subject to the Fairness Doctrine in the past.

    Grammie

    Olbermann doesn't have to visit this site in order to shoot his mouth off at his critics.

    He's got syncophants who do that for him.
    Posted by: Cecelia at November 4, 2007 4:50 AM

    Having fans is something you would know nothing about.
    Staying up drunk all night, now there you are an expert !
    Posted by: at November 4, 2007 9:53 AM


    People out of the public spotlight don't have "fans" they have friends.

    That's likely to be something you know nothing about.

    However, you sure have the sycophant/groupie stuff down pat... :D

    Not only did the Fairness Doctrine only apply to broadcast (and not cable or satellite), as I recall the FD also did not apply to news programming! But that was then and this is now. There's nothing stopping the Feds from making a new Fairness Doctrine that would encompass broadcast, cable, satellite, news, whatever they want. Nothing other than the constitution, anyhow.

    As much as I hate to agree with a liberal, I believe Alan Colmes is correct: When the feds begin regulating talk radio (and news analysis/opinion in general), then stations will go out of the opinion business. Use of public or private airwaves will be restricted for discourse about politics or government.

    I'm sure if the Dems were successful at censorship that Olby would be unscathed even though he never presents opposing viewpoints. It doesn't matter that Fox presents opposing viewpoints; the Dems don't like to hear any conservative voices at all. Dems=Punks.

    The promo I just heard: Critics say Keith Olbermann knows how to do news right: real news, real honest.

    If NBC is willing to sell this liar's spinfest as legitimate news, then the network mothership has no credibility whatsoever. This lack of ethical standards probably helped spawn the lying, slanderous non-apology that Olby spewed on Friday.

    Grammie:

    J$ is correct. Traditional free over the air TV and Radio frequencies used to be impacted by the FD.

    Whether or not they are carried on cable or satellite is not a factor.

    The Fairness Doctrine is Dead on Arrival...

    It will have little to NO support in Congress. Congress is not going to bite the hand that feeds them when they go home to their home television markets.

    Kerry is blowing smoke.

    A great writeup ny Noel Shepherd @:

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/11/03/olbermann-gives-backhanded-apology-giuliani

    Olbermann Gives Backhanded Apology to Giuliani

    Grammie

    Thanks to both for the answers.

    I agree that they don't have much chance of success at all.

    Grammie

    Librul Hypocrisy

    Porno/Child Porn= Okie Dokie as per aclu/(d)'s
    Pedophilia= Okie Dokie "
    Flag burning= Okie Dokie "
    Wide Open borders= Okie Dokie "
    Cujo Chavez= good man
    A-Jad= nice fellow, too
    Terrorism= no biggy

    Right wing radio dominate the airwaves= Can't be havin' that! Shut 'em down!

    Librul Hypocrisy? Indeed

    Costas must be reading Olby Watch: He mentions dim bulbs on the SNF set.

    He's having to put up with the dimmest bulb of all: Keith olbermann. Stick a fork in him, he's done.

    Costas said it's "Green Week" for NBC...wonder if Olby will go along with it on The Hour of Spin. Because if he tries to really play it up and blame Bush for climate change, somebody should play the tape from tonight of him and Collingsworth giggling uncontrollably at how silly it was to dim the lights. More do as I say, not as I do.

    Seig Heil, Keith!

    This sounds like a good conservative argument:

    Bush caused a bunch of people move out of New Orleans, one of the big a/c users in the country.

    Olbyloon Ed
    Student: "why"+ who knows how many others.
    Subject: Bush v. nbc/olbermahn climate change contributions


    http://www.state.gov/g/oes/rls/fs/46741.htm

    I think what Bush has done qualifies as a little more than just dimming a few lights for a few minutes...........

    Why are you quoting what amounts to a paid political advertisement Dip Shit? A Condi-site promo! What crap! But then you've never added anything worth a pile of frost covered manure.

    Where's your "nbc/olbermahn" list, ffarry?

    Not my job to do your work Dipshit. You don't even do your own. Thank God you're not on the right side!

    Since the USA is the largest producers of co2 in the world, , please inform us what George Bush has done in the past 7 years to help the climate change crisis.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 4, 2007 11:01 PM

    http://www.state.gov/g/oes/rls/fs/46741.htm

    I think what Bush has done qualifies as a little more than just dimming a few lights for a few minutes...........

    Posted by: royal king at November 4, 2007 11:14 PM


    >> Where's your 'nbc/olbermahn' list?

    I thought the Climate Change people said that not only is it happening, it's irreversable. What good would it do to try to change something that can't be changed?

    Duh! It stops doing more damage. What a freaking piece of work.

    How's that 'nbc/olbermahn conrtibutions' list coming, 'ffarry?'

    Stop being a lazy, welfare-swizilling, double-dipping fat ass, Dipshit. I'm tired of my tax dollars going to support your boozing and drugging, and I'm not going to do your work.

    Way to put your foot in your ass, 'llarry.'

    Don't know, but it sounds like I just kicked your ass pretty damn good, Dipshit.

    The dim-lights stunt that NBC pulled last night has to be the most stupid thing they have thought of since allowing Olby on the air in the first place. Really stupid. Now can we please have our football back, you idiotic libnuts at 30 Rock? It's bad enough that you allowed moonbat Olby to appear on the broadcast as your socialist news network mascot, now this. NBC is run by morons.

    Oh yeah, Mr. Why Don't You Think, if you truely believe in global warming then sell your car you faggot. Quit polluting the environment. Walk it like ya talk it gay boy.

    You are just another mouthy-assed, whining liberal who would bitch if Zarqawi cut your head off with a dirty knife. You are just like O'Lieyy and SLOB wishing death on someone else meaning they want someone else to do their bid. If they truely believe in that cause then why don't they go buy a firearm (these two fags never owned a weapon) and do their own bidding. I'l tell ya why, yall are a bunch of pussies.

    Why don't you grow a pair spewed: "All of the experts I have read on the subject have said our problems are reversible."

    Kinda like the "ice age" the same idiots predicted in the 70s? I thought we were supposed to be frozen by now. What a hoot.

    By the way, who do the "experts" say is going to "reverse" our "problems"?

    Ahh- the Ratheresque apology from KeithO.

    Present false facts... stand by the discredited information for a period of time... when the tidal flow of backlash grows, first slander the target.... then say that although the facts originally presented are wrong the story is correct.

    Loons are ruining the journalism industry.

    Maybe the name of Olbermann's "show" should be (based on his bloodthirsty demeanor and looks) "DOWN WITH COUNT KEITH OLBERMANN".

    Is the recession Bush's fault? Just curious your stand on it.

    Do you really think an economy can continue to grow without correction for a period of say.... 8 years?

    Is the recession Bush's fault? Just curious your stand on it.

    Do you really think an economy can continue to grow without correction for a period of say.... 8 years?

    why would you post something that counters your own argument? "This is nothing to worry about, say experts, because the process has been going on for billions of years and the bugs are unlikely to cause human disease."

    nothing to worry about? going on for billions of years?

    http://www.mnp.nl/en/dossiers/Climatechange/moreinfo/Chinanowno1inCO2emissionsUSAinsecondposition.html
    China is the world #1 emitter of Carbon Dioxide, which is a Greenhouse gas, and has been increasing in the atmosphere every year since 1900. Curiously, though, the average temperature declined from 1940-1970, while CO2 levels continued to increase (thus the Global Cooling scare). Shouldn't they have continued to increase if there is a direct relationship between CO2 levels and climate change?

    The Bush Administration has acted against Climate Change has much as the Clinton Administration did: basically nothing. Gore symbolically signed Kyoto, which was meaningless. Blame Bush all you want but both Democrats and Republicans know the US shouldn't wreck our ecnonomy over this. the Earth warms, the Earth cools; it's been doing so long before we were around.

    As for sabre-rattling causing oil to go up, maybe you should listen to Hillary do the same thing. Another reason to drill in ANWR and get some of that terror-free oil!

    Do you really think an economy can continue to grow without correction for a period of say.... 8 years?

    -----

    Certainly not. An unbudgeted War Without End already pushing a trillion dollars pretty effectively ends economic stability. We see that in the embarassingly weak and increasingly worthless US Dollar, don't we?

    Edward R. Murrow? More like Edward R. Moron.

    "Any oil retrieved from Alaska would take up to 7 years to actually use"

    so what? let's get to it then. i'm pretty sure cars are still going to be running on gasoline in 7 years.

    and who said anybody wants to plunder anything? are we plundering Alaska now by drilling it? the Gulf of Mexico? no.

    by the way i'm not The Factor, but i'm honored by the comparison

    God Bless Oklahoma!

    Yes, Dipshit you would like some fag musical with cowboys in sequence. Fits you like a glove.

    I never said drill ANWR instead of anything. Why can't we do both? MPG should be improved.

    Still gotta run on gas, though. Let's get drilling!

    "There is an average of over 500 oil spills a year on Alaskan North Slope, and over 4,000 spills in the last 10 years."

    Asked and answered.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 6, 2007 12:37 PM


    What do oil spills that happen out in the ocean have to do with drilling on shore?

    Yes, Dipshit you would like some fag musical with cowboys in sequence. Fits you like a glove.

    Posted by: Llarry at November 6, 2007 11:27 AM


    This hypocrisy coming from a self confessed metro-sexual! I was referring to the recent court ruling regarding ILLEGAL immigrants, clucker/philby/rudy/anon/ffary/jennifer.......

    ALL of the spills are directly attributed to the pipeline? Too damn funny!

    Thanks for putting your foot in your ass, again, 'why.' First with your cut and paste far left oil spill number, ending with no proof what caused the 'spills' or where they were.

    Dipshit is always talking about people putting their feet in their asses. I think it's just because he wants to lick them afterwards.

    Sort of like his fondness for the male chorus line in "Oklahoma".

    He's a flaming queen of the first order, a welfare recipient and a troop hater. I guess that's what drew Dipshit to the Repugnants. A good home for that sort.

    PS: two weeks from now the Royalfraud will state that he "never said it( Foxnews,com) was a far left site"


    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 6, 2007 3:45 PM


    That's because I never did say it, asswipe. Still haven't found that quote yet, have ya, wannawipe?

    Why, you could spend a lifetime racking all of Dipshit's lies. You're right about this. Everyone recalls it. Dipshit is pure welfare mentality. Everyone else is suppose to do his work so he can set on his fat ass and lie. Sort of like his infamous conclusion that Colbert was a right wing Stewart. You're right. He's lying. End of story.

    That settles it. If llarry/clucker/rudy/philby/jennifer/anon says it's true, then it is. Of course, neither one of the olbyloons, including why/patsy/50 others have no proof. Ironic? Indeed.

    Hey, look, everybody! Dipshit finally got something right! You could have knocked me over with the vacuous and trite content of one of the Old Bag's posts when I read that.

    That settles it. If llarry/clucker/rudy/philby/jennifer/anon says it's true, then it is.

    Posted by: royal king at November 7, 2007 11:34 AM

    THAT was an easy one, RK. :D

    Well, easy ones are the only ones Dipshit can answer, so no surprise there. In fact, I was so surprised that he got one right, I let him eat a crayola.

    Well, easy ones are the only ones Dipshit can answer, so no surprise there. In fact, I was so surprised that he got one right, I let him eat a crayola.

    Posted by: Llarry at November 7, 2007 4:36 PM


    One more attempt to hide your true colors?

    We've seen them, Capon.

    man, when did this site lose interest...

    Thanks Patsy!

    Grammie

    You are welcome, Hag-zilla!

    I only posted it a half dozen times.
    You HAVE to be retarded.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 7, 2007 7:53 PM


    You NEVER posted anything that resembles me saying "Fox News is left wing." Get over it, move on to your next diversion or act of desperation, please.

    "And to think Grandma and the Lush consider this liar an ally."

    You just don't understand the rules. You see, as long as the liar is their political ally, they will literally do contorsions to 'prove' a lie isn't a lie.....However, should the "lie" come from a political 'enemy', no matter how minimal, innocent, or isolated it actually is, they will again literally do contorsions to brand THAT particular 'offender' as a compulsive "liar".

    And to think Grandma and the Lush consider this liar an ally.
    Too damn funny !

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 7, 2007 8:19 PM

    To think you still can't produce the post. Too damn funny! (*)[*]{*}

    "To think you still can't produce the post."

    He just did!

    You just don't understand the rules. You see, as long as the liar is their political ally, they will literally do contorsions to 'prove' a lie isn't a lie.....However, should the "lie" come from a political 'enemy', no matter how minimal, innocent, or isolated it actually is, they will again literally do contorsions to brand THAT particular 'offender' as a compulsive "liar".

    Posted by: Mike at November 7, 2007 9:38 PM

    Let me see if I'm following this.

    WDYC does some sort of cut-n-paste with some stat about the number of oil spills or something.

    RK responds that this is a number obtained from a lefty source.

    WDYC denies this and says the source is Fox News. He links Fox and then accuses RK of calling Fox News a "far left" site.

    RK responds, that no he didn't call Fox News a lefty site.

    Now whether RK should admit that he initially jumped to conclusions about WDYC's source or whether RK is arguing that Fox News merely reported data that had been derived from a leftist organization, I don't know.

    Either way, that RK REALLY meant to say that Fox is leftist, is something I doubt, and would wager that both you and WDYC do as well. What you really want is for RK to admit he misspoke about the source of the data.

    So none of this, ***if I'm following correctly*** resembles anything like a "lie" being told. It doesn't even resemble a difference of opinion, something that you geniuses quite often characterize as being tantamount to lying.

    Now contrast THIS UTTER NONSENSE with you, Mike, flatly characterizing yourself as someone who "DOESN'T" post under multiple names when you had none it as recently as the month before.

    Really, 'mike?' He quoted me saying this?

    "Fox News is left wing."

    Did I miss something?

    Cecelia: Now contrast THIS UTTER NONSENSE with you, Mike"

    Stop shouting Cecelia!

    As you even alluded to yourself above, the very LEAST Jeff should do is engage WDIC regarding his assertion that jumping to a wrong headed stereotypical conclusion about his source is tantamount to also calling that source the same thing, .... once it is finally revealed.

    But we all know Jeff won't do that. Maybe he can't. Instead he wiggles and squirms around demanding that elusive but irrelevant 'direct quote', .... instead of addressing the merits of the ACTUAL assertion that WDIC made, .... AND, in the proper context in which it was made.

    This is the way Jeff always operates, and you have expressed your whole hearted approval many times.

    It's just another ongoing example of your own double standard.

    As you even alluded to yourself above, the very LEAST Jeff should do is engage WDIC regarding his assertion that jumping to a wrong headed stereotypical conclusion about his source is tantamount to also calling that source the same thing, .... once it is finally revealed."

    Oh, that's brilliant.... Please explain how making an assumption based upon a stereotype is "tantamount" to lumping everything in the same pot.

    "But we all know Jeff won't do that. Maybe he can't. Instead he wiggles and squirms around demanding that elusive but irrelevant 'direct quote', .... instead of addressing the merits of the ACTUAL assertion that WDIC made, .... AND, in the proper context in which it was made."

    Generally, when you're accused of saying something that you deny, you do ask for a direct quote.

    All the above is based upon your argument that misspeaking on one thing automatically means you've misspoken on EVERYTHING concerned. That's nonsense!

    You're mucking up your own argument with this stuff. Why not simply stick to the demand that RK prove the data is from a leftist source.

    "This is the way Jeff always operates, and you have expressed your whole hearted approval many times.

    It's just another ongoing example of your own double standard."

    YOU have made an illogical and contrived accusation against RK, about something you both KNOW he did not mean. And you've done THAT instead of simply sticking to what he MIGHT very well have done (jumped to conclusions).

    Now you're blaming me (as usual) over your own stupidity and demanding that I defend your stupidity by suggesting your argument isn't much different from so-and-so's-- on my side... Well, yeah, it is quite different, pal... Get bent...

    What's more, unlike your own statements about aliases, none of this meets the standard of being the falsehood that you characterized it as being (and now simply refer to RK as being diversionary).

    You're going to have to grasp for another straw somewhere else.

    "You have made an illogical and contrived accusation at RK"

    It's the same "accusation" I have made against Jeff all along....and it's the same reason I stopped taking him seriously long ago, .... and there is nothing "illogical" or "contrived" about it.

    WDIC made an argument and cited an unnamed source. Jeff responded by attacking his unnamed source as "left wing", even though, as usual, he had no clue what source WDIC was actually quoting. He clearly did it while making the moronic and stereotype based assumption that ALL of WDIC's sources must be "left wing".

    WDIC responded with a very reasoned argument that since his source was in fact, FOX News, then Jeff is clearly calling FOX a "left wing site". It wasn't a stretch at all.

    Yes, the real target here is jeff's unreasoned assumptions that anything that comes from his ideological opposition simply MUST have come from a "left wing" sites.

    Yes, Jeff is being his usual evasive and disengenuous self by refusing to confront THAT argument head on. If he is going to claim something he can't possibly know; .... that someone else's source is "left wing", then he damned well should be made to back up his claim.

    You then defend this cop out response of demanding a "direct quote" when you and Jeff both know full well that WDIC's conclusion was correctly derived by logical extrapulation.

    Of COURSE Jeff doesn't believe FOX is a "left wing site". We all know that, .... but when he stupidly claims a quote taken directly from them came from a "Left wing site", he should be prepared to defend his assertion that he somehow posseses the clairvoyance to know where WDIC gets his
    information.

    And Cecelia, be careful who you are calling 'stupid', because your own level of brilliance is not exactly blinding anyone at the moment.

    Constantly coming to the defense of an known internet sniper doesn't help brighten up that star even a little.

    Mike,

    WDYC's "extrapolation" isn't logical or reasoned. It's hard to even dignify it as a non sequitur. It's merely a asinine attempt to put words in RK's mouth, when you guys should have focused on what you KNOW RK did say.

    If I assume that since you are a man you must enjoy football. It does not follow that I have therefore implied that gardening or quilting are like...similar....or identical... to football... because you happen to prefer those activities instead.

    Stop demanding that I defend this tripe by suggesting that I don't take on people who share my politics when disagree with them. I've done quite the opposite here, as you well know.

    Again, you're going to have find another method to deflect from your own lie.

    As for your reasoning ability, I'm afraid you and WDYC are stuck with the little you have.


    By the way, in reading the piece from Fox News that WDYC linked, the only mention of actual oil spill stats comes in a quote from Sen. Maria Cantwell, a Democratic senator from Washington State.


    "There is an average of over 500 oil spills a year on Alaskan North Slope, and over 4,000 spills in the last 10 years. Let's not pollute one of the great last refuges of America," Cantwell said."

    Just as I thought, the stats aren't from the offices of a Fox News research team.... they are merely reported as data coming from someone else... in this case a Democratic senator.

    I find it perfectly plausible that if this were a Republican senator talking about the number of deaths in Iraq in the New York Times you'd call her a "rightwing source" and not assume that the NYT was endorsing her statements merely by reporting them.

    We won't even go into WDYC's other idiotic extrapolations.

    For goodness sakes you two, get a clue.

    Thanks to the Old Bag and the Old Hag for coming to the rescue of Dipshit, as usual. A prosecutor would love defense witnesses like the two of you. All the credibility of Lizzie Borden and O.J. Simpson.

    Thanks to the Old Bag and the Old Hag for coming to the rescue of Dipshit, as usual. A prosecutor would love defense witnesses like the two of you. All the credibility of Lizzie Borden and O.J. Simpson.

    Posted by: Llarry at November 8, 2007 2:47 AM


    Great rebuttal, as usual, Llarry.

    BTW, how old are you?

    Younger than you, I am sure, probably younger than your children. Maybe the same age as your grandchildren or a bit older.

    Younger than you, I am sure, probably younger than your children. Maybe the same age as your grandchildren or a bit older.

    Posted by: Llarry at November 8, 2007 10:38 AM

    I meant chronological age, Capon. Not your emotional maturity.

    BTW, Capon, I don't have any grandchildren, so this likely means you're as old as one of your wife's unfertilized eggs.

    At least THAT explains your dementia... :D

    Right, Old Bag. The world is flat, too.

    Right, Old Bag. The world is flat, too.

    Posted by: Llarry at November 8, 2007 10:50 AM


    Well, I'm sure that was a widely held theory back when you were riding your horse to school, Capon, but there's since been some revisions.

    Maybe the same age as your grandchildren or a bit older.

    Posted by: Llarry at November 8, 2007 10:38 AM


    A twelve year old who claims to be a world traveler and a bare handed cougar catcher?

    "Just as I thought, the stats aren't from the offices of a Fox News research team.... they are merely reported as data coming from someone else... in this case a Democratic senator."

    posted by Cecelia :)

    What was that you were saying 'why/50 others?' 'mike?'

    "Since we emit the most co2 in the world, our president should be leading on this problem...but asking Bush to lead in anything but getting our troops killed is a foregone conclusion."

    "Why don't you think at" getting your facts straight. China is now the number one emitter of co2. Also, since even the Nobel laureate IPCC says that c02 increases have historically lagged temperature increases, what will cutting our co2 emissions do? Furthermore, no one, literally no one, not even Kyoto supporting Europe, is doing a damn thing to cut their own emissions. Do you really think any politician is going sign the US up to make an enormous economic sacrifice when no one else in the world is doing anything? In case you haven't noticed, anthropogenic global warming skepticism is on the rise. Have you heard about the London High Court's ruling about Algore's movie? They said it is so full of bullshit that schools have to read a disclaimer before showing it to kids.

    As for the President leading our country in war, get used to it. Even Hillary says that the troops will be there until at least 2013. Maybe we could be out of their earlier if transgendered libs like you would man up and start supporting our troops. And don't tell me you support the troops but oppose the war. That's like saying I support the Atlanta Falcons but I hope they lose this Sunday.

    By the way, Hillary can't even poll a lousy 50% when she's put up against Ron Paul. So don't give me this bullshit about how it's going to be a "long time before another republican is elected president in this country." Rudy and Hillary are running neck and neck, and he's got far less baggage than she does. Rudy is not part of the Bush administration. Never has been. Hillary was part of the most corrupt administration in history (in terms of both total indictments and prison sentences). Her one and only important task during that administration was health care, at which she failed miserably and which resulted in the Democratic party having its worst defeat in a generation.

    Here's what the NY Times published last Wednesday:

    "American forces have routed Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the Iraqi militant network, from every neighborhood in Baghdad a top American General said today, allowing American troops involved in the 'surge' to depart as planned."

    Can't remember if Bathtub Boy reported this or not.

    Pssstttttttt: never said the stats were from a Fox news research team.All I said was is that I got my info from FoxNews.com which I did.
    Plus I also listed another source about oil spills.....the Christian Science Monitor


    to which Dumbo replies:"First with your cut and paste far left oil spill number"

    So which one is the far left oil spill number Fraud...the CSM or Foxnews,com ?


    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 1:56 AM


    What you did was to engage in faulty reasoning where you argued that since the oil spill number was reported on the Fox News site, RK saying the stat was from a leftwing source (it was quoted by a Democratic senator), meant that he was implying Fox News is leftwing.

    I see you've jettisoned that utter nonsense and have now moved the argument over to the territory of whether the stat is accurate.

    Maybe you're learning something... finally. You must have gotten your PhD in physical education or the culinary arts.

    Here's what the NY Times published last Wednesday:

    "American forces have routed Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the Iraqi militant network, from every neighborhood in Baghdad a top American General said today, allowing American troops involved in the 'surge' to depart as planned."

    Can't remember if Bathtub Boy reported this or not."

    Posted by: Fuknugat at November 10, 2007 1:45 AM

    ‘Attention! Your attention, please! A newsflash has this moment arrived from the Malabar front. Our forces in South India have won a glorious victory. I am authorized to say that the action we are now reporting may well bring the war within measurable distance of its end.’


    WAR IS PEACE
    FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
    IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


    Your post is SO far over the heads of the wingnuts at this site, Trent.

    That's about the best response I have heard concerning us now winning the war in Iraq.
    Most people just never learn.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 1:08 PM


    uh huh... I'll wager most people to the left and the right on this board have read 1984.

    However, I know Trent didn't bother to google the referenced New York Times article.

    If he had, he have known that Maj. Gen. Joseph F. Fil, Jr. was anything but effusive, propagandizing or overly-optimistic.

    He is, however, cautiously optimistic and goodness knows THAT crime alone is enough to put anyone in your crosshairs.

    Bobo, the appropriate response to Trent, from your point of view, was DOUBLEPLUSGOOD.

    Grammie

    I'll wager most won't remember it...because if they did...they wouldn't be for this "War without end" as General Sanchez puts it.

    That's right you ARE for this "war without end" and endless American casualities.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 1:46 PM

    No, actually, WDYT, I want to win.

    Want to argue oil spill numbers?
    Want to defend the oil companies too ?
    If you'll make excuses for idiots like RK you'll probably hop on the band wagon of the oil companies too.

    There is really no telling how low you will sink in your defense of the indefensible.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 1:22 PM

    Too bad during the course of arguing about oil spills, you ventured out of the realm of cold hard stats into the more murky area (for you) of abstract reasoning and attempted so silly and obvious a non sequiturs (RK implying FNCcom is leftist) that it suggests you must have gotten your doctorate from a mail-in offer off a matchbook cover.

    Bobo, the appropriate response to Trent, from your point of view, was DOUBLEPLUSGOOD.

    Grammie
    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at November 10, 2007 1:36 PM


    Grammie,

    I don't think WDYC could find a finer example of the sort of Orwellian agitprop than we saw yesterday with Llarry's rant:

    "The differences between individual freedom, which is running rampant through the streets in Dublin, Aberdeen, London, Paris, Barcelona, Milano, Wien, Brussels, Rotterdam, Luxembourg City, Muenchen, Malmo, Copenhagen, Prague, Kracow, &c, and in Bangor, Perth-Amboy, Tupelo, Traverse City, Salina, Lawton, Provo, El Segundo, &c, in which we willingly surrender and submit to all sorts of indignities and intrustions and line up to hand over our individual freedoms to a cruel and greedy taskmaster in the White House are striking, indeed. And, please don't give me the habeas crap. You don't begin to understand it, and it is but ein Augenblick."

    And to think THIS went to this (in less than 24 hours):

    "wrongful conviction rates, economically disproportionate incarceration rates, investigative transperancy, information access, diversity of opinion including opinion critical of ruling administrations in journals and broadcast media and a few other matters."


    Tomorrow he'll narrow it more to the "heartbreak of psoriasis".

    Yet mentions of broad intrusive wiretapping and public surveillance in the paradise that is "Not The U.S.A." was mere puffery to Capon's Welchman alter-ego.

    We have had and still have some liberals who have real concern and concerns about the country and the world.

    These two dolts wouldn't be among them.

    Please inform us all how you win a "war without end."
    Or maybe General Sanchez and so many others are just full of crap.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 2:25 PM

    The way you win any "war without end" which is really the proper name for the age-old war against totalitarianism of any sort. You win it a step at a time.

    If you want to declare the battle in the war completely lost in the case of Iraq, that's your opinion and you have ample reasons to think that. But stop at the suggestion that anyone who doesn't, just wants more soldiers dead.

    Most of the candidates in your own party don't use rhetoric like that and most of them have plans to try and stabilize Iraq. They aren't defeatist, they plan to TRY.

    So cut the crap, unless you're willing to extend that sort of rhetoric to them, Dr. WDYC.

    I don't care what president is able to stabilize things in Iraq, McCain or Clinton, Giuliani or Biden. From their war room to God's ear.

    Somehow, I doubt that you feel the same.

    One more thing..get a life, lush.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 2:29 PM

    WDYT, the world could "get a life" and stop arguing with you and every citizen on earth could become a complete teetotaler.

    You'd still be dumb as a shoe.

    Tomorrow he'll narrow it more to the "heartbreak of psoriasis".

    Yet mentions of broad intrusive wiretapping and public surveillance in the paradise that is "Not The U.S.A." was mere puffery to Capon's Welchman alter-ego.

    We have had and still have some liberals who have real concern and concerns about the country and the world.

    These two dolts wouldn't be among them.

    -----

    Please excuse my effort to put forth an informative argument about what I find to be a very important matter. I realize civil liberties don't concern you much, and I certainly fail to find a topical distinction between the habeas/speech/snooping areas and the criminal conviction area. Again, innocent people rotting in prison are just not important to you. That is clear, and not surprising.

    Please inform us all how you win a "war without end."
    Or maybe General Sanchez and so many others are just full of crap.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 2:25 PM

    Chirp, chirp!

    Please excuse my effort to put forth an informative argument about what I find to be a very important matter. I realize civil liberties don't concern you much, and I certainly fail to find a topical distinction between the habeas/speech/snooping areas and the criminal conviction area. Again, innocent people rotting in prison are just not important to you. That is clear, and not surprising.
    Posted by: Llarry at November 10, 2007 5:42 PM


    That wasn't an informative argument. It started out as ridiculous and hyperbolic insinuation that Europeans are dancing in the streets while Americans are getting stopped and asked for their "papers" at every checkpoint.

    When you were confronted with the real issues of personal privacy other there, that are general issues of technology and govt everywhere, you then went to a laundry list of complaints full of assumptions, memes, and foregone conclusions.

    If anyone dismissed a specific issue, based on informative information, rather than predicated on personal hysterics... it was you.

    Please inform us all how you win a "war without end."
    Or maybe General Sanchez and so many others are just full of crap.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 2:25 PM

    Rhetorical question, of course. Of course the right will not admit that things have screwed up.
    I still can't wrap my head around the fact that anybody could still support this war.

    What an ultimately sad and hollow existence you lead, you Nasty Old Bag. Everything is not coming up roses in George Bush's America. I am willing to admit that, so I am able to work to change it. You deny it, so it is impossible for you to work to make American better. First, they came for the whores, and I was silent. Then, they came for the sluts, and I was silent. Then, they came for the floosies, and I was silent. Then, they came for the Nasty Old Bags, and there was no one to speak for me.

    Then, they came for the Nasty Old Bags, and there was no one to speak for me.

    Posted by: Llarry at November 10, 2007 6:27 PM


    Well, that's an advantage of being a self-impressed blogboard troll like you, Llarry.

    Any clown can speak for ya...

    Sorry, Bobo, but you are the epitome of "... I'm "dumb as a shoe! ".

    Your fanciful flights of rhetoric, interspersed liberally with ad hominems, sloppy to nonexistent attributions to quoted material and exaggerating cherry picked paraphrases do not mark you as a man of intellect. It does make you appear to others as being dumb as a shoe.

    I know you won't take this personally or you would not religiously accuse others of being everything from war mongers to traitors to vermin to whatever invective comes to your mind at the time..

    Grammie

    Your simplistic analysis of this regional war demonstrates that you have not given this war a great deal of thought( or you are just incapable )
    But I'm "dumb as a dolt".

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 8:39 PM

    It wasn't an "analysis", it was an answer to a loaded question "Please inform us all how you win a "war without end." and your explicit statement that any view on the matter other than yours makes one insane.

    Before those lovely conditions on a "discussion", you offered the conclusion that support for the war is tantamount to being "for endless American casualties".

    You ask a loaded question and I answered. How do you win an endless war? One step at time, and on a great many fronts, and I don't mean just military ones.

    Iraq is a battle in an endless war and as I said, you've decided it's lost and you've amble reason to conclude that. You've decided it never should have been waged and you've an argument there.

    What you don't have and what isn't conferred on you by having a pertinent opinion, is the moral authority to suggest that your predictions are so indisputable as to make any contradiction the stuff of insanity or blood lust.

    Your political candidates don't talk like that, our past Democratic president doesn't talk like that (quite the contrary) and any talking head who isn't making a direct appeal to the likes of you, doesn't talk like that.

    And yes, you're as dumb as a shoe.

    Grammie and Sharon:


    James Lilek
    Sept 2005

    http://www.lileks.com/bleats/archive/06/0906/092006.html

    An angry man on the radio yesterday insisted that talk radio was part of the “fascist control” of the media. He was, of course, a barking lunatic, as nuts as the people who were certain Clinton would use Y2K to appoint himself Bubba the First and suspend the Constitution. But if you dial down the rhetoric a little, you find the same overheated sentiments in more mainstream quarters. It reminded me of Keith Olbermann, who, by his own words, is the first person to criticize the current Administration, all other voices of dissent having willingly stifled themselves in accordance with Archie Bunker Act of 2002. The other day he birthed this rich observation:

    . . .That flash of lightning freezes at the distant horizon, and we can just make out a world in which authority can actually suggest it has become unacceptable to think. Thus the lightning flash reveals not merely a President we have already seen, the one who believes he has a monopoly on current truth. It now shows us a President who has decided that of all our commanders-in-chief, ever, he alone has had the knowledge necessary to alter and re-shape our inalienable rights.

    Yes, indeed. Well, having just read what actual altering and reshaping rights looks like, I am disinclined to panic over the thing made out in the distant horizon via lightning, even if it reveals “a world” – presumably Manhattan, below 150th street – in which “authority” – presumably Drinky W. Flyboy, the Resident-in-Chief – actually suggests that thinking is unacceptable, and we must hereby rely on our autonomous nervous system.

    Hear ye: if ever I announce that the lightning is sending me messages about how the government seeks to control what I think, please have me commited for paranoid schizophrenia.

    Then again, it’s no ordinary lightning flash. It simultaneously “reveals not merely a President we have already seen,” but one who is preparing to revoke Keith Olbermann’s right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of a job on a network a lot of people actually watch. Fine; it’s good red meat, and there’s always a market for that. (Insert obligatory Ann Coulter denunciation!) Mr. O has his furrow, and he will spend the next two years shoving the blade in the dirt. He will have fans and nice write-ups and profiles and the rest of the perks that follow when you stake out a particular niche. Just like Art Bell. And just like Art Bell, he will instantly become a footnote the moment something horrible and significant happens, and his nonsense is swamped by things that actually happen, instead of things he believes are actually suggested.

    One of the constant rhetorical ticks in my email concerns my incontinence when it comes to “terrorism.” Apparently people of my ilk are constantly pissing or piddling ourselves when the government plays the ol’ booga-booga card. We drop our Big Gulps and shout “oh, protect me from the scary Mooselmen, Great Father!” I think it was Woocott who first dribbled this particular riposte, and it’s caught on. A day doesn’t go by in which someone doesn’t point out a direct connection between ginned-up scare-news and the retentive abilities of my urethra.

    Perhaps it’s so; perhaps there’s a reason I sit in the dark at night making cold calls to Pakistan, hoping the government taps my phone and maybe, just maybe, finds a terrorist on the other end.

    But there’s a certain dark jot of damp trouser-front to Olbermann’s rhetoric as well, no? "

    Such poignant and poetic prose tugs at my heart strings. You said:

    "First, they came for the whores, and I was silent. Then, they came for the sluts, and I was silent. Then, they came for the floosies, and I was silent. Then, they came for the Nasty Old Bags, and there was no one to speak for me.
    Posted by: Llarry at November 10, 2007 6:27 PM"

    Unfortunately you misquoted it. It should be:

    First they came for the drag queens and once we were all rumbling away in cattle cars sweetness and light rained down upon the world and everyone lived happily ever after.

    Grammie

    I just started reading your post and have been called away to watch a video.

    Be back as soon as I can.

    Grammie

    Cecelia, I went to the link and found some other very good observations.

    "Today two important speeches were made at the UN: one was a sack of lies dumped out by a religious simpleton bent on heralding the apocalypse, and the other was by the President of Iran. At least that’s how a Fark headline might put it, depending on the IQ level of the submitter. There were various desultory FARK threads on the speeches. My favorite concluded thus: there was the usual debate about whether Ahmadinejad had actually called for the destruction of Israel. (It’s a matter of faith among some that Bush personally blamed Saddam for 9/11, but a matter of debate as to the Mullah’s true feelings about the Jews.) Someone posted a MEMRI link with a video, and provided the transcript:

    Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: I hereby declare that this sinister regime [Israel] is the banner of Satan. It is the banner of the Great Satan. All it does is to implement the orders of the criminal America and England. They think that the peoples are the same as they were 100 years ago. They are not aware that things have changed in the world. Today, all the peoples have awoken. The Iranian people is the standard-bearer of this awakening for all the peoples. As we can see, from the southernmost point in South America to the easternmost point in Asia, all the people are shouting a single cry. With placards their hands and clenched fists, they shout: Death to Israel.

    The response was priceless:

    So where did he say anything about genocide or killing jewish people.

    (again I have to stress, it's still a boneheaded statement to say. But it's a matter of borders/land/politics than hatred for a race.)

    Of course. That’s why the rent-a-mobs shout Death to Israel: it’s all about borders. That’s why the Jews are sons of monkeys and pigs: borders. That’s why the very stones will call out, yo! I got a Jew on my six! Smoke that yid! Borders.

    The Iranian presiden, having stated that the US was behind Israel’s unprovoked disproportionate war against innocent Lebanese apartment blocks, closed his UN address with a nice prayer:

    "I am emphatically declare that today's world more than ever before longs for just and righteous people with love for all humanity, and above all longs for the perfect, righteous human being and the real savior who has been promised to all peoples and who will establish justice, peace and brotherhood on the planet.”

    That would be your Dozenth Imam. He continued:

    “Oh Almighty God, all men and women are your creatures and you have ordained their guidance and salvation. Bestow upon humanity that thirst for justice, the perfect human being promised to all by you, and make us among his followers among those who strive for his return and his cause."

    I may be misreading his remarks, but he strikes me as the sort of fellow who believes he has a monopoly on current truth.

    Make us among his followers. This would be akin to President Bush concluding his speech with an appeal for everyone to follow Jesus. The commentariat would fall off their chairs en masse: he’s outPoped the Pope! But Ahmadinejad, I suspect, will get a pass. Not because his kumbaya blather and deliciously naughty anti-empire rhetoric chubbed up the lads at AP and Reuters, but because he’s seen as a vaguely absurd figure. He says the most colorful things. Nice smile, too! Always good for a quote, that one.

    There’s something else behind the indifferent reaction, though. Everyone has already accepted the idea of Iranian nukes. I think it’s been factored into our subconscious calculations, where they lie as great red glowing things whose threat is somehow still abstract. They won’t use them. They just want them. The way we all want a big-screen TV, and would keep it in the box once we bought it.

    I frequently hear people remark that Iran would not be stupid enough to use a nuke, since they know it would bring about retaliation. But MAD only works if the other guy’s SANE. If the Administration regularly made remarks like Ahmadinejad and the other top-tier leaders, critics in the West would have long ago been dissolved in a puddle of corrosive urine. Imagine the President of the United States addressing a group of supporters and leading them in a chant of “Death to Iran.” Imagine what that might mean.

    If it helps clarify things, imagine a flash of lightning. "

    Thanks for helping me out with one of those nagging things that you can't remember who said this or who played that character. In regards to Flucker I started to type agent provocateur. I knew that wasn't the right word but I could not for the life of me think what word I wanted.

    You nailed it! AGITPROP!

    Grammie

    Please WDYT, don't waste your facts on these people. It's not a concept they recognize. Using facts to back up your argument? Now that's just crazy!

    Bobo, let me quote you almost (two short sentences intervene) back to back in the same comment.

    You quoted Cecelia here:

    "What you don't have and what isn't conferred on you by having a pertinent opinion, is the moral authority to suggest that your predictions are so indisputable as to make any contradiction the stuff of insanity or blood lust."

    Your response was:

    "You love to pigeonhole me with your didactical rants and pass judgment like you're the hanging judge."

    Cecelia makes the point that your beliefs and opinions do not give you the moral authority to declare that those who differ are insane and have a blood lust.

    You do not dispute that you have declared those who disagree with you as insane and in the grips of a blood lust because you have declared it innumerable times in many ways.

    Your response was that Cecelia's didactic rants pass judgment on you like the hanging judge.

    You follow up that shortly with this:

    "But I think Sir Loin summed up you ( and Grammie) the best:
    "Dead and dismembered Iraqi children in the arms of tearful mothers dusted in rubble has no effect on these simpleminded self centered people."

    So how do you characterize that statement that you consider to be the best ever made about Cecelia and I? Obviously not as a DIDACTIC RANT BY A HANGING JUDGE. Upon what do you base your endorsement of such a statement about those who disagree with you?

    You have claimed to be a professor at a college/university several times. If you are unable to see the absolute contradictions in your own words in a very compressed time frame I hope you have been lying about yourself.

    Grammie

    These are the seeds you have sown at this site, and it comes in as sharp and clear as the North Star on a crystal clear night in Montana.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 11, 2007 7:24 PM


    As do the messages you receive at night from Planet Fornicating Pecans...

    There is just no way you're going to allow anyone else their opinion about the war in Iraq without your assigning to them the worst possible motives, is there?

    It's not going to be a matter of their merely having "inferior intelligence"... they're going to have to also be the devil himself, in your estimation.

    However, WDYT, if we had never entered Iraq you wouldn't sound an iota different than you do now. We'd be still murderers, abettors to murder, fascists--- name the appellation--- no matter what.

    It's just who you are, my friend.

    And yes, you're dumb as shoe.


    Grammie,

    I"m glad you enjoyed Lileks. He's just wonderful and his site is a hoot!

    These are the seeds you have sown at this site, and it comes in as sharp and clear as the North Star on a crystal clear night in Montana.

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 11, 2007 7:24 PM


    As do the messages you receive at night from Planet Fornicating Pecans...

    There is just no way you're going to allow anyone else their opinion about the war in Iraq without your assigning to them the worst possible motives, is there?

    It's not going to be a matter of their merely having "inferior intelligence"... they're going to have to also be the devil himself, in your estimation.

    However, WDYT, if we had never entered Iraq you wouldn't sound an iota different than you do now. We'd be still murderers, abettors to murder, fascists--- name the appellation--- no matter what.

    It's just who you are, my friend.

    And yes, you're dumb as shoe.

    Posted by: Cecelia at November 11, 2007 10:12 PM

    Isn't it hipocritical to scold WDYT for not "going to allow anyone else their opinion about the war in Iraq without your assigning to them the worst possible motives, is there?", then go on to assume you know what his/her stance would be in a hypothetical situation ["However, WDYT, if we had never entered Iraq you wouldn't sound an iota different than you do now. We'd be still murderers, abettors to murder, fascists--- name the appellation--- no matter what.]?

    sn't it hipocritical to scold WDYT for not "going to allow anyone else their opinion about the war in Iraq without your assigning to them the worst possible motives, is there?", then go on to assume you know what his/her stance would be in a hypothetical situation ["However, WDYT, if we had never entered Iraq you wouldn't sound an iota different than you do now. We'd be still murderers, abettors to murder, fascists--- name the appellation--- no matter what.]?
    Posted by: Trent at November 11, 2007 10:23 PM


    No, because I'm saying it specifically to WDYT and not willy nilly to everyone who is liberal and/or doesn't agree with my views about Iraq or anything else.

    There are been plenty of anti-war folks on who have drifted past this board, who did not engage in the sort rhetoric or assign the personal motives about political opponents that our Dr. Moreau uses routinely.

    And yes, conservatives and/or Republicans would be no less bloodthirsty or fascist to him, if we had never stepped foot into Iraq.

    He IS the Olbermann Watch Lifetime Achievement Award Holder for Most Likely To Die On A Forensics Unit.

    Trent, did you read just the last few comments on this thread alone much less going back.

    Bobo/Why has used dozens of names.

    Let me reiterate. Bobo said in this thread alone:

    "But I think Sir Loin summed up you ( and Grammie) the best:
    "Dead and dismembered Iraqi children in the arms of tearful mothers dusted in rubble has no effect on these simpleminded self centered people."

    This is par for the course for Bobo. I don't remember him ever posting without an accusation of an intellectual or moral perversity to those who don't share his point of view.

    He has gone on rampages because not everyone agrees that The Boss is The Boss or George Carlin, Jon Stewart etc are the world's greatest satirists.

    Let me point out just from this thread Bobo's debate techniques:

    "If you were a true American and cared a whit about your country instead of trying to deflect the horrid practices of your president, you'd be appalled"

    "Doesn't the irony hit you smack in the face, you moron ?"

    "A right wing comedian, eh?

    You idiots are always wrong about EVERYTHING, which makes you the best nonintentional comedians going !"

    "Oh the excuses for the deplorable behavior for the criminals that make up the worst administration in our history.
    You are anti-American slime, Cee.

    You are dirt under my shoes.
    And I haven't forgotten your prediction of a GOP victory in 08.
    Keep dreaming, asshole."

    "You're onstage demented one !
    Step right up !"

    "RK thinks he's educating me.
    Time to go back to the barn and do something you're good at.
    Shoveling shit !"

    "Admitting your wrong must be the most difficult thing in the world to you....or you're just criminally insane ."

    This is the tip of the iceberg from just part of this thread that illustrates Bobo's debate tactics. You can add other little tidbits like vermin, murderous, retarded and on and on and on.

    Grammie

    "The spills happen for a variety of reasons. Freighters running around, leaks in the pipeline etc."


    What kind of a juvenile answer is this? Do you have a source to explain how 'freighters [running] around' cause oil spills?

    This is the tip of the iceberg from just part of this thread that illustrates Bobo's debate tactics. You can add other little tidbits like vermin, murderous, retarded and on and on and on.

    Grammie

    Posted by: Janet Hawkins at November 11, 2007 11:11 PM

    Yeah, so what? WDYT is very passionate about this issue. Get pass his/her "juvenile answers", and there are good points backed with facts.

    Get pass his/her "juvenile answers", and there are good points backed with facts.

    Posted by: Trent at November 11, 2007 11:35 PM


    How do you 'get pass' a juvenile answer? Where are all these 'facts?'

    Yeah, so what? WDYT is very passionate about this issue. Get pass his/her "juvenile answers", and there are good points backed with facts.

    Posted by: Trent at November 11, 2007 11:35 PM


    I'm pro-life and I'd never make an excuse like that for someone who had called pro-choicers murderers or abettors to killing.

    You have a lot to learn about what passion and love for ideas, issues, and politics means.

    Ah so. Trent says:

    "Yeah, so what? WDYT is very passionate about this issue. Get pass his/her "juvenile answers", and there are good points backed with facts.
    Posted by: Trent at November 11, 2007 11:35 PM"

    But Cecelia is:

    "Isn't it hipocritical to scold WDYT for not "going to allow anyone else their opinion about the war in Iraq without your assigning to them the worst possible motives, is there?", then go on to assume you know what his/her stance would be in a hypothetical situation ["However, WDYT, if we had never entered Iraq you wouldn't sound an iota different than you do now. We'd be still murderers, abettors to murder, fascists--- name the appellation--- no matter what.]?"

    Bobo accusing us of complete callousness regarding children blown to bits is not an hypothetical situation but rather demonstrates his passion backed up by facts. When Bobo uses such terminology to describe us as insane, delusional, vermin, murderous etc it is simply an expression of his passion backed up by facts.

    And Cecelia's comment about Bobo using that tactic is hypocritical because it is based on an hypothetical.

    Bobo KNOWS what is in others hearts based no doubt on his passion and no one can accuse Bobo of anything more than being factually passionate without being hypocritical.

    Could you run that by me one more time so that it makes sense.

    Grammie

    How do you 'get pass' a juvenile answer? Where are all these 'facts?'

    scroll up and read this:

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 8:39 PM

    But I'm "dumb as a dolt".

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 8:39 PM


    Is this the 'fact' you are referring to? That was the only one I saw.

    How do you 'get pass' a juvenile answer? Where are all these 'facts?'

    scroll up and read this:

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 8:39 PM

    Posted by: Trent at November 12, 2007 12:12 AM


    Well, aside for the fact that the two front-running Democratic presidential candidates don't see things as so dire that they don't want to stay in Iraq (HRC mentioned up to 4 years) in order to TRY and stablize things, why does WDYT's outlook on the war make it excusable for him to label anyone (EXCEPT Democratic presidential candidates..) who hopes for a different outcome as being nothing short of horny for the death of soldiers and Iraqis?

    And why in the world would you expect anyone labeled thusly to overlook it or attempt to engage in discussion with him?

    But I'm "dumb as a dolt".

    Posted by: Why don't you think at November 10, 2007 8:39 PM


    Is this the 'fact' you are referring to? That was the only one I saw.

    Posted by: at November 12, 2007 12:21 AM

    yeah...ok. That was almost funny, but not quite.

    I agree 1:41. They act as if disagreement is a personal insult. I have always taken that to be they lack certainty in their beliefs. Of course, when one merely parrots talking points, one hasn't engaged in the deliberative analytical process that tests those beliefs.

    Posted by: Anonymous at November 12, 2007 6:21 AM


    No, Einstein, we don't act as through disagreement is personal insult, we act as if personal insult is personal insult.

    Do you and WDYT bother to even read a message before you respond?

    It's not about being told you're wrong, misguided, ill-informed, or just plain stupid in how you feel about Iraq. It's being told that you feel that way because you either lust for the death of others or don't give a tinker's damn because of political expediency.

    However when YOU have been flat-out labeled no better than a traitor and terrorist supporter for opposing the war, I suspect you've managed to consider that an insult that went way beyond calling you---wrong, misguided, ill-informed, or just plain stupid...

    You'd intuit rightly for once in this case...go with that instinct...

    As to the indisputable nature of WDYT's case for utter hopelessness about Iraq, I refer you to HillaryClinton.com. There she maps out a plan for bringing together the factions referenced by WDYT, under the Bosnia model, with U.N. and other international involvement and with drawn-down--but still present-- U.S. forces in Iraq.

    It wasn't enough for me to tell WDYT, that he had valid, pertinent and frequently aired all over the country--concerns about the prognosis for Iraq. It's not enough for me to have said that Bush and Rumsfeld made ghastly miscalculations in prosecuting the war.

    WDYT demands COMPLETE capitulation, again from everyone BUT the pols in his own party.

    When these same pols voted to go into Iraq they thought it DOABLE to bring stability to Iraq after Sadam was ousted. WMDs being there or not, THEY knew the risks and calculated that it was NOT a foregone conclusion that we would leave something worse there.

    "Passionate" WDYT wants to call someone blood thirsty/morally corrupt for NOT thinking utterly as he thinks.

    So let him can start with his own house.

    Referencing WDYT's argument which he states makes you insane, blood thirsty, and deaf to casualties if you do not accept in its entirety, and trying to find some logic in what you've just said about the Dems being duped... are you suggesting that Bush obscured the information that:

    "The struggles of the Shites in the south, the Kurdish north, and the Sunni ruling minority have been going on for ages."

    That there was a possibility that putting down Saddam could "destabilize this epic civil war and [bring] in the Al-qaeda factor to boot.."


    That we might instigate a situation whereby "the insurmountable task America faces internally, as rulers of an occupied land, and internationally as a perceived unilateralist aggressor is monumental."

    THIS completely know and often alluded to information was withheld from them by the Bush Administration?

    You say, "As to HRC and the post-GWB Occupation Correction, I still don't know if I am going to be able to vote for HRC in the primaries, but given the fact of our unfortunate and botched Occupation, I think her plan does ring of reason."

    No doubt you do,...however, according WDYT's argument, this "hope" ..."plan" .... is tantamount to insanity on your part and a desire to keep the blood flowing.

    Welcome to the insane and bloodthirsty club, Anonymous. Park your unctuous self right here next to the old bags that are HRC, Grammie, and me... :D

    As to what Armitage said, the news articles I've read only show him saying that he had no ill intent towards Plame when he revealed her to Novak. That he "simply assumed that she was not a clandestine officer."

    Let me add that Armitage has no authority to declare someone "covert", "clandestine" or "undercover". He has no authority classify her status in the sense that outing her would be an infraction of the law. The CIA has that authority and they have refused to say that Plame was classified in such a way as to mean the law was broken.

    The Special Prosecutor who investigated the case, could find no bearing that she met the LEGAL criteria for criminally outing an agent.

    If you're arguing that Armitage (who has never been considered to be a puppet of the Bushies) did the bidding of his Lord and Master and was later protected by Colin Powell, then you should consider bringing your evidence to Mr. Fitzgerald.

    He knew who had leaked the info to Novak from the very start of his investigation--- which ostensively was an investigation into who outed Plame to Novak!

    Goodness knows he couldn't prove that theory and never brought charges against anyone for the crime or for any conspiracy to commit it.


    I see the Lush is STILL talking about me.
    A little OCD ?

    Still waiting for an explanation how destabilizing the Middle East, creating a huge refugee problem etc. is going to help us win this "war without end".
    Posted by: Why Don't You Think at November 12, 2007 12:31 PM

    I'm still waiting for you to ask THAT question to the Democratic pols who voted to take the risk of going in and later dealing with the possible aftermath of setting the tribes against each other, and who STILL think they can stabilize the area-- the sunni...the shia...the terrorists... via the presence of U.N. and American troops.

    I'm waiting for you to call THEM insane and bloodthirsty.

    And yes, you are as dumb as a shoe. :D

    If I called someone "dumb" who is smarter than me, trust me it wasn't you.

    You STILL can't make the connection that it is illogical for you to say what you do about people's motivations for supporting a continued military presence in Iraq and any realistic hope for progess and NOT indirectly indict most of the Democratic presidential candidates in the process.

    By your own argument we need to get out yesterday and cut our losses and to have any hope for anything but civil war is "insanity".

    It's YOUR ugly rhetoric. You just want to apply selectively.

    If this helps, Cecelia, don't thank I, but just pass onto they what don't know better.

    Posted by: Anonymous at November 12, 2007 2:09 PM


    I've passed onto they what don't know better, relentlessly.

    Bout time it reciprocated... even if them decided to leave Armitage and stick to grammar.. :D

    Are the two mutually exclusive? I had no idea.

    Posted by: Anonymous at November 12, 2007 3:01 PM

    So dazzle us all with your grammatical skills while you explain how Armitage's remarks have brought "new light" to the Plame matter.

    Well, I'll take your word for the fact that Armitage apologizing for leaking Plame's name to Novak is significant because "Anytime anyone even tangentially associated with this Administration apologizes for anything, it is noteworthy."

    However, this new light looks very much like the old light in that Armitage publicly apologized as soon as Fitzgerald confirmed that he was indeed the guy who talked to Novak.

    You say that your suspicions were aroused by Armitage's apology because he knew that he "would not be held accountable". I take it by that, you mean that Armitage knew that he was not the focus of Fitzgerald's investigation.

    If that is the proper reasoning for Mr. Armitage then he should have had no impulse to distance himself from any knowledge of Plame's classified status as well.

    He was not a target. He's a Bushie and doesn't apologize for the obvious reason. There was no evidence to bring charges of outing an agent. By your own logic, why would he bother to care that he not be suspected of having prior knowledge?

    But Armitage became the focus of public and media opinion in a way that is quite beyond the legalities of the matter. He became the focus of public opinion and as the man whose actions launched a very prominent saga, it's likely that THIS was his motivation for the apology.

    As someone (you) who will argue that the simplest and most obvious explanation is also the most suspect when it comes to a particular set of political opponents, that's fine. I don't understand it, but I accept it.

    Cecelia, you formulated a well-reasoned and articulate response. I don't agree with it in large part, but I do appreciate the time and effort you took, and the polished final product. Thank you.

    Posted by: Anonymous at November 12, 2007 4:38 PM


    Your writing skills are admirable, so I take from you what benefit I can find, Anonymous.

    You'd be wise to do the same with me...

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