Good lord, can you ever remember Clinton being responsible for everything the CIA or the FBI did, whether it was Waco or the Los Alamos lab investigations and such?

What is the big deal over waterboarding? Olbermann said something about "the Gitmo prisoners tortured and the tapes destroyed" but there's only 3 guys they waterboarded, and have said it works and they got useful information from doing it.

What a very special delusional asshole Keith is. That can't just happen overnight. I'm guessing it started with being pampered by his mother, ignored by his father, fed a steady stream of left wing crap by teachers growing up which continued in an even more intense manner in college. This led to somewhat gainful employment and now the full blown hysterical, paranoid dementia. What a sight to behold. I wish him a large thrombosis of his coronary arteries LIVE during worst person in the world. That would make my year.

How about drawing the line at insinuating that Bush or Rosemary Woods erased the waterboarding tapes, Capon.

Johnny,

When you said "liveblogging", I thought you'd be here "liveblogging".

What, I'm not here? Who is this guy that looks (unfortunately) like me?

McCool: "I wish him a large thrombosis of his coronary arteries LIVE during Worst Person in the World. That would make my year."

Every time I make the mistake of starting to believe that you actually do have some redeeming social value...and find myself starting to warm up to you a little...you go and say something like THAT.

And then I make the same realization all over again....there is nothing to like!

Anyone else find it funny that even the Pope is calling out Gore and the corrupt UN IPCC ?

What, I'm not here? Who is this guy that looks (unfortunately) like me?

Posted by: johnny dollar at December 12, 2007 9:06 PM

Well, thank goodness! I felt like I had been stood up.

"Well, thank goodness! I felt like I had been stood up."

I hope that's not a familiar feeling.

McCool: "I wish him a large thrombosis of his coronary arteries LIVE during Worst Person in the World. That would make my year."

Every time I make the mistake of starting to believe that you actually do have some redeeming social value...and find myself starting to warm up to you a little...you go and say something like THAT.

And then I make the same realization all over again....there is nothing to like!

Posted by: Mike at December 12, 2007 9:08 PM

Yeah, I care what you think.

I understand many on the Left have a deep-seated need to "get" Bush, but going after him for being too mean to terrorists is awfully close to treason.

I'm wondering if waterboarding is "useful" (here it comes...) anymore because we've talked so much about it.

Everyone knows that you feel like you're absolutely dying, but now they know that you do survive enough to get up and walk away.

> Well, thank goodness! I felt like I had been stood up.

No I'm just busy constantly updating the main post. It's oddball at the moment so I get a few minutes break from the idiocy of MerkleMann.

I understand many on the Left have a deep-seated need to "get" Bush, but going after him for being too mean to terrorists is awfully close to treason.

Posted by: Great Thanks at December 12, 2007 9:13 PM

YOU THINK?????? That line was crossed by Reid, Olby and others LONG ago.

McCool: "Yeah, I care what you think."

I hope not!

It's pretty obvious you haven't made much of an impression with folks on your side either.

I hope that's not a familiar feeling.

Posted by: Mike at December 12, 2007 9:12 PM

Hell, yeah, it is. My daughter did it yesterday.

STOP IT! I find that offensive to my views. Shall i call the ACLU? Just because you donate doesn't mean they wont sue your ass Mike! Especially if I believe you are targetting me for my jihadist sympathies. They know right from wrong.

"but going after him for veing too mean to terrorists is awfully close to treason."

So is violating the Geneva Convention!

No I'm just busy constantly updating the main post. It's oddball at the moment so I get a few minutes break from the idiocy of MerkleMann.

Posted by: johnny dollar at December 12, 2007 9:15 PM

I thought you wrote them a month in advance... :D

McCool: "Shall i call the ACLU"

Call whoever you like....as long as it isn't me.

Because I can assure you that I'll never call anyone who wishes the death of another American a friend.

Wouldn't be great at Democratic debates if they had the sort of religious and pseudo-religious litmus test questions that Republicans get.

How about questions about allowing folks to have a gun when it counts, or aborting a fetus at 30 weeks to counter balance the questions on evolution and global warming?

So is violating the Geneva Convention!

Posted by: Mike at December 12, 2007 9:19 PM

Actually, I doubt that it's true that violatiing the Geneva Convention is anything approaching the "legal" definition of "treason".

Actually, I doubt that it's true that violatiing the Geneva Convention is anything approaching the "legal" definition of "treason".

Beat me to it!

Great Posts!!
As the Doberman keeps on with his rant, and Abrams with whatever he is ?definition please?, and with all of them swapping seats on the titanic,
You would think MSNBC would not remain clueless
about their ratings.
The Countdown to who gets the first ax !!

Because I can assure you that I'll never call anyone who wishes the death of another American a friend.

again. I care. Like our hero Olby doesnt wish that every day except he wishes both Bush and Cheney have heart attacks so vacant stare bimbo can wear a burka when she meets the Saudi king.

McCool: "Beat me to it!"

It seems that you get beat to just about everything.....except for mind numbing raunchiness!

YES! I win again.

100's of hrs. of tape on waterboarding????? Keith HAS seen the tapes. He is a UC at the CIA and he is sending secret signals to his cohorts through his show.

Mike, what are your thoughts on the Pope's comments?

Actually, Gary, I've read that MSNBC has found in the left, the first stable market that they've had.

Bill O'Reilly can look forward to years more of being the Worst Person In the World. Evidently there's an audience that can't get enough of that.

Personally, I think that if we start hearing liberal OWers here start to overtly back Keith to the hilt, that his days are REALLY numbered.

As long as he seems like something you'd bring home in a brown paper wrapper, he has an audience.

McCool: "Mike, what are your thoughts on the Pope's comments?"

Sorry but I'm too busy trying to purge the raunchy trash you've been posting to focus on anything the Pope said.

Well, that show went too quickly...

And Mike you managed to say nothing other than that McCool sucks, so you had a bit of satisfying high horse moments.

Oh, well. So much for liveblogging....

poor deflection Mike. I hope i haven't scared your innocent eyes with the word THROMBOSIS!!
Is that an......

AD HOMINEM ATTACK?? Trademark Mike of Olby Defensefund fame

No?

damn

"And Mike you managed to say nothing other than that McCool sucks, so you had a bit of a satisfying high horse moments."

Sorry Cecelia....I couldn't resist the temptation of taking the easy road tonight.....because I admit that besting McCool doesn't really present much of a challenge.

If it comes down to protecting Americans (even the Americans that hate America) vs. the Geneva Conventions, I'll waterboard a guy like Khalid Sheik Mohammed myself.

glub glub, Mo

McCool: "is that an.......

AD HOMINEM ATTACK??"

No, just more of your usual raunchiness and childish attempts at humor.

And Mike you managed to say nothing other than that McCool sucks, so you had a bit of a satisfying high horse moments."

Sorry Cecelia....I couldn't resist the temptation of taking the easy road tonight.....because I admit that besting McCool doesn't really present much of a challenge.

Posted by: Mike at December 12, 2007 9:52 PM

Mike I'm going to guess you are from the Peoples Democratic Republic of Vermont. Everything is backwards there.

"If it comes down to protecting Americans (even Americans that hate America) vs. teh Geneva Conventions, I'll waterboard a guy like Khalid Sheik Mohammed myself."

Thats fine.....vigilanti justice is nothing new in America....but our government shouldn't be doing it!

If it comes down to protecting Americans (even the Americans that hate America) vs. the Geneva Conventions, I'll waterboard a guy like Khalid Sheik Mohammed myself.

glub glub, Mo

Posted by: Great Thanks at December 12, 2007 9:54 PM

Amen

Thats fine.....vigilanti justice is nothing new in America....but our government shouldn't be doing it!

Unless of course it would save MY life, one of my loved ones or someone of utmost importance. ie a democrat.

sincerely
Mikes Inner thoughts

MCCool: "Mike I'm going to guess you are from the People's Democratic Republic of Vermont. Everything is backwards there."

Well, you'd be wrong as usual.

Actually I'm from Red State America, complete with many conservative friends and relatives.

But none of them make death wishes against other Americans.

Of course our govt should do it. Who else can act on information gleaned from successful "enhanced interrogation"? If they give locations of top terrorists they can send out one of the updated Predator UAV's...they call it The Reaper.

http://www.defense-update.com/products/p/predatorB.htm

Yes! I AM Charles Bronson.

"Unless it would save MY life, or someone of utmost importance, ie. a Democrat."

And you're still batting .000.

You see, unlike yourself, I don't quake in irrational fear of terrorism because something bad once happened.

On the contrary, I take great pride in keeping the terrorist threat in it's proper perspective....therebye giving them their greatest defeat in the process.

I wish more Americans understood this.

Actually I'm from Red State America, complete with many conservative friends and relatives.

good for you. Listen to them once in a while

On the contrary, I take great pride in keeping the terrorist threat in it's proper perspective....therebye giving them their greatest defeat in the process.

Liberalese for I keep my head IN THE SAND

Great Thanks: "they call it the Reaper."

Yes, I remember the last time I had such wild eyed gee-gaw enthusiasm for the latest Military hardware.

That was before I ent into the Military myself.

ou see, unlike yourself, I don't quake in irrational fear of terrorism because something bad once happened.

Quake? no, just angry, especially when I see traitorous cowards like Harry Reid or god forbid Keith olbermann blatantly do harm to our country for the sake of a short term political benefit. And as far as wishing Olby a heart attack? Absoultely I do, he hasn't been an american since he's been running his mouth on his asshole pulpit at MSNBC.

McCool; "Good for them. Listen to them for a change."

I do.

And I can assure you, none of them talk like you!

http://www.wackywarnings.com/

Some social commentary on influence of attorneys in this country

McCool; "Good for them. Listen to them for a change."

I do.

And I can assure you, none of them talk like you!

Posted by: Mike at December 12, 2007 10:21 PM

Now you've gone and made me feel just plain dirty mike. What do I have to do to get back into your good graces? Turn Democrat? OK, I'll schedule the lobotomy tomorrow.

McCool: "he hasn't been an american since he's been running his mouth on his asshole pulpit on MSNBC."

I hate to break it to you Sunshine, but it's not up to YOU to decide who is an American, and who isn't.

Compared to YOU, Keith Olbermann is a great Patriot!

Waterboarding is not torture..it is a very unpleasant experience that no one would want to go though but it doesn't come close to real torture that terrorist use...who by the way will be using those methods weather we do it or not.

I know one of the tactics that KO and the Left use is to suggest if we use Waterboarding or other harsh methods then our enemy's will start too..as if they haven't before....of course KO and his masters at Clinton's Media Matters don't believe that we have any enemy's and ignoring 9/11,,suggest it was all made up by Bush.

McCool: "What do I have to do to get back in your good graces?"

Too late!

You already made the mistake of showing your true self weeks ago before Janet pleaded with you to cool it....and before you jacked my name to argue with yourself!

Tonights death wish was just another reminder of who you really are.

Compared to YOU, Keith Olbermann is a great Patriot!

DING DING DING
WE HAVE A WINNER.
Most pathetic case of dementia on this blog

and when you call me sunshine, it makes me think you are picturing me naked again Mike, please stop.

This will be my last post about my heart attach fantasy for Keith post. I think you and I have split and resplit that hair enough. Its become tiresome

Anyone seen my stem?

and before you jacked my name to argue with yourself!

I'm guessing that really stuck in your craw Mike

and before you jacked my name to argue with yourself!

OH! The DRAMA!!! How dare I? How about you GET OVER YOURSELF?

McCool: "It's become tiresome."

So are you!

Anyone seen my stem?

Posted by: B Whosane O'Bomba

Now THATS funny.

I came thissss close to having some junkie inject me with heroin from a needle of unknown origin. Oh by the way, i want to lead the free world and Oprak likes me.

McCool: "It's become tiresome."

So are you!

Posted by: Mike at December 12, 2007 10:34 PM

Yeah, I know you are but what am I???
Good one.

McCool: "OH! THE DRAMA!! How dare I?"

So exactly how much 'courage' do you think acting raunchy and stupid on an anonymous Internet discussion board take?

"GET OVER YOURSELF!"

Oh, I got over myself years ago. Thats one reason why I don't quake in fear over the possiblity of random Islamic terrorism.

McCool: "OH! THE DRAMA!! How dare I?"

So exactly how much 'courage' do you think acting raunchy and stupid on an anonymous Internet discussion board take?

"GET OVER YOURSELF!"

Oh, I got over myself years ago. Thats one reason why I don't quake in fear over the possiblity of random Islamic terrorism.

Posted by: Mike at December 12, 2007 10:41 PM

Oh I'd make fun of you to your face too!

and i get angry because I have kids and shortsighted jackasses like yourself and Keith piss me off

McCool: "and i get angry because I have kids and shorsighted jackasses like yourself and Keith piss me off."

Good, my job is done since I've now succeeded in making you visibly angry. You are kind of boring you know.

Since you say you have kids, I hope for their sake that you don't use some of the same potty mouthed raunchiness around them that you've shared with us on this blog?

I think I'll retire with the irony based satisfaction of being called a "shortsighted jackass" by a potty mouthed rube who can't see the forest for the trees.

Check out a GREAT article by Bob Parks at the New Media Journal...He just INCINERATES Overbite's lunacy! GREAT stuff! Hey Overbite...let's see if you've got the testicular fortitude to DEBATE him!

Dean blames "right-wing" [Ding!] radio and "Fox News" [Ding!] for letting this all go on.

Its all the VAST RIGHT WING conspirousy fault!!!!! Fox News and talk radio scramble your brians!!!! 9/11 was an inside job!!!!!

Water boarding ey??? Why didn't I think of that?? I have been going about this all wrong. Beheadings, stonings, suicide bombings, and blowing up school buses, none of that crap works. Water boarding, that’s the ticket.

Allah Akbar!!! Lalalalalalalalala!!!!!!!

I haven't watched Countdown for a while, and just switched over during an O'Reilly commercial break. But what's with the ultra-closeup of Keith? It's almost like he's jumping out of the TV into my house! Yikes.

And does he really have a segment called "Daily Britney"? If so, he ripped off the idea from Shep.

Bathtub Boy is worse than Matthews. He's settled for Schuster, Rachel Maddow and John Dean as his compliment of "experts." Is he a fucking moron?

A Gitmo trial beats judgment at Nuremberg
Washington Times

Nearly 100 foreign enemy combatants to be tried at Guantanamo Bay will have more rights than Nazi war criminals who faced the Nuremberg tribunal, a Senate panel was told yesterday.

Detainees in the war on terror will have the presumption of innocence and an automatic appeal, the latter not even afforded to U.S. citizens, said Brig. Gen. Thomas W. Hartmann, legal adviser to the Convening Authority for the Office of Military Commissions.

"No such presumption existed," said Gen. Hartmann in reference to Nuremberg while speaking to the Senate Judiciary subcommittee on terrorism, technology and homeland security. "There were no rules of evidence, and virtually any evidence was freely admitted.

"That was painfully apparent to those who were found guilty and received the death penalty — they were hung within hours and days of the completion of the sentence announcement," he said.

Steven A. Engel, Justice Department deputy assistant attorney general, said that extending the peacetime notion of habeas corpus to military prisoners would be "unprecedented."

"In the nearly 800 years of the writ's existence, no English or American court has ever granted habeas relief to alien enemy soldiers captured and detained during wartime," Mr. Engel said.

Hope your happy Mike.

Factor: "hope your happy Mike."

Nobody said anything about granting "Habeas Corpus" to enemy combatants Factor.

The subject was torture.

Just as John Dean or any regular poster on this blog have not claimed that "911 was an inside job", as per your passionate 11:08 post implied.

So you don't beleive terroists should have Habeas Corpus rights?

And I don't believe 911 was an inside job.

Apparently these neocomunist moonbats forgot that our own miltary undergoes waterboarding as part of their training....What a bunch of blithering IDIOTS.

You’re spinning Mike. Remember, you are talking to The Factor; this is the no spin zone. Do you believe terrorists should have Habeas Corpus rights?

"Apparently these neocomunist moonbats forgot that our own military undergoes waterboarding as part of their training....what a bunch of blithering IDIOTS."

Funny, I was in the Military and come from a large extended family of military veterans, and I just don't recall ever being waterboarded or anyone else ever saying they were either.

Do you just like making things up?

Abrams and Olbermahn... what a joke
Edward R. Murrow would have a stroke
Have these experts on war
Been to Iraq before?
No, Keith's in his bathtub for a soak

Apparently these neocomunist moonbats forgot that our own miltary undergoes waterboarding as part of their training....What a bunch of blithering IDIOTS.

Posted by: Ellsworth at December 13, 2007 12:03 AM

That's another good question for Mike. Do you think the military should use water boarding in their training of our troops?

Bathtub Boy is worse than Matthews. He's settled for Schuster, Rachel Maddow and John Dean as his compliment of "experts." Is he a fucking moron?

Posted by: Rebecca Lobo's Restraining Order at December 12, 2007 11:24 PM

What a hoot. Nice name too.

Factor, I don't see how you've really earned the right to demand answers from me regarding off topic questions of your choosing, but if you'll simply reread the two posts that you claimed I was "spinning" on, I think it will become crystal clear, even to you, that I do not, and have not advocated giving enemy combatants habeas Corpus rights.

smear him all you like--Keith is finally calling on ya'll to atone. After 8 years of smirking--you are getting to hear one guy who speaks for 50-70% of us who thinks this administration will do down in history as the all time worst.

I do not, and have not advocated giving enemy combatants habeas Corpus rights.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 12:16 AM

How do you close down Gitmo then? Were you not the one who said that if the terroists were detained on US soil, they would need to be given the protection of our constitution?

Hey Mike, It's called the SERE program. It's used by the Army at Ft.Bragg where Green Berets train, and the U.S Air Force Survival School near Spokane. Look it up and LEARN something, you neocommunist dumbass.

"Were you not the one who said that if the terrorists were detained on US soil, they would need to be given the protection of our constitution?"

NO!

More revision by Mike. What else is new?

Hey Ellsworth!....Ya think calling me a "neocommunist dumbass" or a "blithering IDIOT" in any way enhances your misinformation?

I have heard that a select FEW undergo such training as preparation for it's possible usage against them.

However, the VAST majority of Military service menbers do NOT.

That said, are you REALLY simple enough to believe that it is done to them with the same intensity and duration that it is done to an enemy captive?

Once again...the Geneva Convention, which WE were a major part of, has outlawed the practice for many years.

That said, keep on screeching about what "idiots" and dumbasses" those that disagree with you are.

That'll make you right every time!

"More revision by Mike. What else is new."

Well Factor, your never ending chain of lies is certainly not new!

You might want to go back and find where I ever made such a statement?

While your at it....look for the one about me calling "911 an inside job", or the one where I calimed "I stopped voting republican because Limbaugh became a drug addict", or the one where I said "I never listened to Limbaugh" before making claim #2.

I could go on and on about the lies you keep posting to bolster your sagging self esteem!

You are clearly just as pathetic as your sexual harrassing, "War on Cristmas" crusader namesake.

You two deserve each other.

Why do we allow our troops in training to water boarded then since it is outlawed by the Geneva Convention?

and I just don't recall ever being waterboarded or anyone else ever saying they were either.

Do you just like making things up?

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 12:09 AM

I have heard that a select FEW undergo such training as preparation for it's possible usage against them.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 12:44 AM

HUh?????

So you think you're seeing a contradiction that isn't there again Jeff?

What part of "I have heard that a select few undergo such training" do you think conflicts with my factual statement that I know many military veterans, and not one of them has ever undergone waterboarding?

Why don't you try making your own arguments and quit pretending to try to live by picking apart the statements of others?

Hint...you're not any better at doing that than you are at identifying undercover posters!

Plain as day.

"Maddow frets over whether US troops abroad might be waterboarded. One would think most of the troops would welcome that over, say, being beheaded."

###
So true J$....but let's not forget the mutilation some of the troops bodies went through, some hardly recognizable.

Oh, but the left fears the CIA and their own government?

Fear....frets.....I thought, accodring to Mr. blank-FLUCKER and whiney Mike, only the right-wingers used fear!

Boo! The feds are listening to Mr. blank-FLUCKERS' phone conversation with his silly son, GRAEME...."Now remember son....the bread plate is on the left side."

Hey Mike, you can try to split hairs all you want on waterboarding, but the FACT remains that our military uses it. Why haven't you answered Factor's question of it not being outlawed? By the way, since when does the Geneva Convention stuff apply to NON-UNIFORMED ILLEGAL COMBATANTS??? Stupid neocommunist moonbat.

Let's look at Mr. blank-FLUCKER (cue OLD SPICE jingle) and Mike's logic.....

Since there is a case, in 2002, of waterboarding that our transparent and noble system allowed us all to know about....

The terrorsists who have already.....

beheaded our toops
mutilated their genitals after murdering them
and have done other horrific things....

will now waterboard our troops.

Yeah...another fear mongering tactic from our resident chickenhawks of the left....

Whiney Mike and Mr. blank-FLUCKER (cue OLD SPICE jingle)

Posted by: A N O N Y M O U S at December 13, 2007 10:32 AM

More spinning by Anon. It is no training "experience". They a forced to undergo "torture" or be thrown out of their program. So why are you not calling for this training to be stopped?

"Why haven't you answered Factor's question about why the US Military of it not being outlawed"

1) - Because I don't owe either Factor or you anything.
2) - Because I'm not the US Military and have no control over what training they choose to use, or why.
3) - Because I don't have any details about the severity of the training when compared to REALLY being waterboarded.
4) - Because that is NOT a justification for America to have broken Geneva Convention standards of what defines torture.

Any more dumb questions Ellsworth?

Or were you just looking for another opportunity to name call?

Still stubbornly holding onto your relativism arguments Cee (along with your childish name calling)?

'but they're LOTS more worser to us than we are to them!'?

It's funny how for years, conservatives would preach about how conservatives believed in moral absolutes, while liberals were trashed for supposedly believing in moral relativism.

It's even funnier how NOW.....it's become just the opposite!

since when does the Geneva Convention stuff apply to NON-UNIFORMED ILLEGAL COMBATANTS??? Stupid neocommunist moonbat.

Posted by: Ellsworth at December 13, 2007 9:58 AM

This is what the far left does not understand. We are not dealing with an actual uniformed military. Duh.....

The WSJ sums up my opinion about aggressive interogation techniques like waterboarding and is intellectually honest....unlike the fear-filled Mike and Mr. blank-FLUCKER (cue OLD SPICE jingle)....

"One certainly may hold as abhorrent the idea of aggressively interrogating any terrorists ever, either for fear of what they might do to our people, as John McCain does, or because one thinks this violates our values. What one may not do — at least not if one wants the system to function — is assent to such a policy in 2002 and then, when the policy is made public, put up the pretense that one is “shocked” and appalled to learn of it.

"This is bad faith. Worse, it risks setting in motion the ruin or eventual criminal prosecution of CIA employees who in 2002 did what the Bush Administration, Congress and indeed the nation wanted them to do to protect the American people from another September 11.

"It has been widely reported by now that waterboarding was used on only three individuals — Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who planned the airliner attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon; Abu Zebaydah, an Osama bin Laden confidante captured in Pakistan 2002 and described as a director of al-Qaeda operations; and a third unidentified person. If Speaker Pelosi and her colleagues want the handling of such terrorists conformed to what they call “our values,” then she should define that and put it in an explicit piece of legislation. Then let the Members vote yea or nay, in public, on the record.

"But don’t sign off on such a sensitive policy at a moment when the nation’s “values” support it, then later feign revulsion when you can’t take the heat from the loudest in your political constituency. There was a time when politics at least assumed more backbone than that."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119734098837720381.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

###
Giving the grace to our professionals in the CIA whcih means the benefit of the doubt, and realizing their motives, all Americans should be willing not to politicize this issue nor make it a story of fear and self-loathing.....Both Mike and Mr. blank-FLUCKER (cue OLD SPICE jingle) place themselves above the fray and inpugn the morality of anyone trying their best to both fulfill their oath the protect The Constitution and the lives and safety of the American people.

And the polticial angle of the left's ruling elite is a far worse story, in my humble opinion! Waterboarding three enemy noncombatants and the transparency of the review shows the administration is doing its best to balance civil liberties, an open/informed democracy and protecting life and limb....

All the democrats do is curse the effort without offerring ANY alternative....

Like I keep observing with the left's ruling class....pathetic examples of leadership!

f Speaker Pelosi and her colleagues want the handling of such terrorists conformed to what they call “our values,” then she should define that and put it in an explicit piece of legislation. Then let the Members vote yea or nay, in public, on the record.

"But don’t sign off on such a sensitive policy at a moment when the nation’s “values” support it, then later feign revulsion when you can’t take the heat from the loudest in your political constituency. There was a time when politics at least assumed more backbone than that."

This is so obvious and reasoned that John Gibson could have said it!... :D

Thanks, for the link, Cee.

BTW, there was a moment last night when Olbermann took a four to five word snipe at the Democrats over their lack of courage.

If he's really "feeling it"...., why can't he make one or several of them part of the "satire" that is the Worst Person In The World segment?

I mean the man wants to speak truth to power and to rock the status quo, right?...

Good news.

The radical fringe left is becoming agitated with their ruling elite....

From Markos Moulitsas Zúniga......

"You'd think that for no other reason than pride, Democrats would decide to fight. I mean, they can't stop telling us how tough they are by voting for "let's bomb Iraq" and "let's bomb Iran" resolutions. But people then elect them to do such quaint things as "lead" and "fight". So what happens when they don't? Congressional ratings keep tanking, we get headlines like these, and people think, "well, Democrats sure are wimps." Actually, "wimp" would be an improvement over the word they really use, but it's not politically correct so I won't use it. But you know what it is.

"If the public needs to see which party is made up of strong members, and which one is chock full of patsies, it's not too difficult to figure out. And the worst part? Republicans always knew Democrats didn't have the cojones to fight, and have sat back and laughed at all the tough talk from Reid and Pelosi.

That's what they've become. A joke.

"So all that's left is to see the final "Hoyer Math". How many millions in pork is the life of each soldier worth to Democrats in DC? We know that for Republicans, our soldiers' lives have zero value. For Democrats, the Hoyer rate appears to be in the $10 million range.

"One last point: The American people hate Bush -- the most unpopular president since polling began -- and consider him a weak incompetent SOB.

"Then they see Democrats capitulate to him.

"So tough!"

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/12/13/115739/97/457/421608

###
Come on now, leftists....get your ruling class to act....OUR COUNTRY'S SURVIVAL DEMANDS IT!

FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR!

2:25PM post....more FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR!

"but I fear another RNC slander"

###
Scary rightwing bogeymen ready to trash people and steal Mr. blank-FLUCKER's (cue OLD SPICE jingle) egg nog recipe while he tells it to his old frat buddy over the phone.....

"Ciao, Harris...I gotta go hide under my bed and wet my lederhosen!....Edelweiss, edeilweis, bless my homeland forever!"

Density, thy name is Mike. I'll say it AGAIN: Geneva Convention standards DO NOT APPLY to NONUNIFORMED ILLEGAL COMBATANTS. FACT. You want ACTUAL torture, Mike? Ask Daniel Pearl. Ask Nick Berg. Ask Paul Johnson. Ask them if there are rules, you neocommunist dumbass.

Mike just can't stand the FACT that he got OWNED after claiming that I was "making stuff up" about our troops undergoing waterboarding.

Ellsworth, the post below, in which I have so kindly re posted, says it all aout 'mike' and his and others debating tactics. Spew, then hope no one calls them on it.

>>>

and I just don't recall ever being waterboarded or anyone else ever saying they were either.

Do you just like making things up?

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 12:09 AM

I have heard that a select FEW undergo such training as preparation for it's possible usage against them.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 12:44 AM

HUh?????

Posted by: royal king at December 13, 2007 1:05 AM

There must not be anything happening on the blog if the first two contientious comments are directed at me over 7 hours after my last post!

Ellsworth: "Ask Daniel Pearl"

No Ellsworth, how bout if I just ask John McCain?

And No Ellsworth, you didn't "OWN" me at all. You implied aterboarding was part of the standard training for US troops. It isn't! It is VOLUNTARY and limited to special training situations for instructional purposes only.

Lets look at a corollary situation: It is known that some law enforcement agancies have training programs where officers are voluntary tazed to show what it feels like.

Does that mean it would be OK if we repeatedly tazed terrorism suspects as part of a "harsh interrogation procedure?

I don't think so either!

Finally Ellsworth, let me break it to you gently; YOU don't get to decide whether you "OWNED" someone or not in a disagreement....any more than calling your opponents "blithering idiots" defines 'OWNING' them.

On another less important note, how bout that democratic softball game today? What a total flop. The only good thing was hillary dug her hole a little deeper. Did national security even get brought up? It's like 9/11 never happened, to them.

Ellsworth: "Density, thy name is Mike. I'll say it AGAIN. Geneva Convention Standards do NOT APPLY TO NONUNIFORMED ILLEGAL COMBATANTS."

Ellsworth buddy, ya think if you were to shout it out just a little bit louder, that it will make your misinformation more believable?

Why don't you try sticking in a few more "blithering idiots" or "neo communists" characterization in there to add some effect?

Now lets take a little look at the Geneva Convention as it is actually written:

"Article 1:"

"The high contracting parties undertake to respect and to insure respect for the present Convention in ALL CIRCUMSTANCES."

"Article 2:"

"In addition to the provision which shall be implemented in peacetime. The present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the the high contracting parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them."

"The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a high contracting party, even if the said occupation meets with no armed resistance"

It goes on......................try reading it in it's entirety!

If you read them in their entirety, it is clear that the Geneva Convention standards are intended to be pretty inclusive rather exclusive. It is also an accepted standard of behavior that WE AGREED to in 1949....for VERY good reasons!

Sure, you can go in there and try pick apart, interpret, and misinterpret wordage to your heart's content, but it is obvious that what you are REALLY doing is looking for arguable exclusions that you think justify engaging in barbaric behavior based on a PERCEIVED technicality.

For example, I haven't seen the term "illegal combatant" in there anywhere. Why don't you try defining "illegal combatant" for us? I didn't see the term "nonuniformed" in there either.

I'm not even sure what an "ILLEGAL NONUNIFORMED COMBATANT" is? Such terminology isn't used in the Convention.

In short, you are simply LOOKING for a technical excuse to justify violating established standards of treatment for America's enemies that we ENTHUSIASTICALLY signed onto 58 years ago.

In my opinion, such justification simply isn't there, but I'm not a lawyer....and it will probably take a courtroom full of lawyers and judges to make a final determination about THAT.

Meanwhile Ellsworth, I'll keep arguing for decency....while YOU continue on with your name calling campaign to justify barbarism.

Finally Ellworth, this debate didn't just start with you and me! A lot of intelligent people have been hashing and rehashing this for years, including the administration who recently reworded it in order to protect themselves.....Now why do you suppose they would have done THAT to a standard that doesn't even apply?

RK: "on another less important note, how about that Democratic softball game today? What a total flop."

Like YOU would ever acknowledge that anything "Democratic" is anything more than a "flop"?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RK: "The only good thing was that Hillary dug her hole a little deeper."

I doubt you're right because it might be a first if you are, but I HOPE that you are right about that.

After all, who we REALLY need is either Obama or Edwards (or maybe both) .... and not the rather wishy-washy Hillary!

That said, are you REALLY simple enough to believe that it is done to them with the same intensity and duration that it is done to an enemy captive?

Once again...the Geneva Convention, which WE were a major part of, has outlawed the practice for many years.

That said, keep on screeching about what "idiots" and dumbasses" those that disagree with you are.

That'll make you right every time!

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 12:44 AM

I AM MIKE HEAR ME ROAR! Follow me lemmings I am Yodalike

Hey Mike, you can try to split hairs all you want on waterboarding, but the FACT remains that our military uses it. Why haven't you answered Factor's question of it not being outlawed? By the way, since when does the Geneva Convention stuff apply to NON-UNIFORMED ILLEGAL COMBATANTS??? Stupid neocommunist moonbat.

Posted by: Ellsworth at December 13, 2007 9:58 AM

This guy makes a lot of sense

Mike would be screaching "BUT the Geneva Convention!!" all the way to the gallows under Sharia law

Hey Mike, you can try to split hairs all you want on waterboarding, but the FACT remains that our military uses it. Why haven't you answered Factor's question of it not being outlawed? By the way, since when does the Geneva Convention stuff apply to NON-UNIFORMED ILLEGAL COMBATANTS??? Stupid neocommunist moonbat.

Posted by: Ellsworth at December 13, 2007 9:58 AM

This guy makes a lot of sense

Mike would be screaching "BUT the Geneva Convention!!" all the way to the gallows under Sharia law

No name nobody: "I AM MIKE HEAR ME ROAR! Follow me Lemmings, I am Yodalike"

Beats using words to say nothing....as you just did.

Sorry Mike THAT was me :-)

"Mike would be screaching "BUT the Geneva Convention!! all the way to the gallows under Sharia law."

Nope...I'd be a "nonuniformed illegal combatant"!

All fantasy aside Batman, if Sharia Law ever happens in America, it will surely be Christian Sharia Law....and NOT Muslim!

Mike i'm sorry i should be more sensitive to your liberally induced dementia.

"Mike i'm sorry i should be more sensitive to your liberally induced dementia."

McCool: Will you quit apologizing for being the easiest kill on Olbermann watch!

In fact, the best thing YOU could possibly do for the right is to simply stop posting.

You probably do view a Christian theocracy here as more likely and more threatening than a muslim one. You are merely a liberal muslim apologist with a little nuance, nothing more. You use the "they arent a real threat" line to pretend they cant hurt us and hsould not be treated like the obvious animals that they clearly exhibit themselves to be by their own actions and speeches.

Will you quit apologizing for being the easiest kill on Olbermann watch!

In fact, the best thing YOU could possibly do for the right is to simply stop posting.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007

WOW. I'm curling up in the fetal position as I type this. You have forced me to suck my thumb and cry for mama. You brutal bastard.
arrogant jackass.

McCool: "You probably view a Chistian Theocracy here as more likely and more threatening than a Muslim one."

The problem with your false analogy is that 'A' IS actually a distinct possibility, while 'B' is possible only in the wild imagination of the most extreme right wing fearmongers.

That said, you are dead wrong in your rather silly assertion that I would prefer 'B' over 'A' if given the choice.

McCool: "You probably view a Chistian Theocracy here as more likely and more threatening than a Muslim one."

The problem with your false analogy is that 'A' IS actually a distinct possibility, while 'B' is possible only in the wild imagination of the most extreme right wing fearmongers.

That said, you are dead wrong in your rather silly assertion that I would prefer 'B' over 'A' if given the choice.

typical arrogant liberal jackass

Damn McCool...hauling out the "jackass' comments awful early tonight.

damn you're easy!

That said, you are dead wrong in your rather silly assertion that I would prefer 'B' over 'A' if given the choice.

BRAVO!

The problem with your false analogy is that 'A' IS actually a distinct possibility, while 'B' is possible only in the wild imagination of the most extreme right wing fearmongers
In the next 10 years? NO I however consider all possibilities. Given the stifling politically correct climate of the last 2 decades and projecting that out a few more decades along with views expressed by numerous muslim groups that they want to make America a muslim nation by 2050, yeah i'd say a little caution is advised against being ARROGANT and assuming it couldn't happen here.

McCool, do you read horror stories to your kids at night about Muslim "monsters"?

Do you check under their beds for them to make sure there aren't any Muslims under there at night?

How about that classic one about the old Muslim who lives deep in the woods and eats little kids for breakfast?

Damn McCool...hauling out the "jackass' comments awful early tonight.

If the shoe fits

damn you're easy!

Head in the sand ostrich is an even easier target

"Head in the sand ostrich is an even easier target."

Well then, you'd best start targeting that ostrich instead of constantly getting your butt handed back to you on this blog.

"Head in the sand ostrich is an even easier target."

Well then, you'd best start targeting that ostrich instead of constantly getting your butt handed back to you on this blog.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 9:30 PM

You are a funny little man with a ponytail

"You are funny little man with a ponytail."

You're correct if you take away the "little" and the "ponytail" parts from your fantasy.

You're correct if you take away the "little" and the "ponytail" parts from your fantasy.

And Funny and man

McCool" "And Funny and man"

Now you just admitted that you wasted words to say nothing again.

Well then, you'd best start targeting that ostrich instead of constantly getting your butt handed back to you on this blog.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 9:30 PM

>>>

and I just don't recall ever being waterboarded or anyone else ever saying they were either.

Do you just like making things up?

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 12:09 AM

I have heard that a select FEW undergo such training as preparation for it's possible usage against them.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 12:44 AM

HUh?????

TDF!!!!(*)(+*--------

Now THATS a valid point, talking to you IS a waste of time.

RK: "HUH?????

Highlighting your inability to read and understand simple words again Jeff?

I wouldn't BRAGG about it!

McCool: "Now THAT'S a valid point, talking to you IS a waste of time."

For YOU, it always will be!

However, someone a little smarter and a lot less raunchy than you might make a little more headway.

Jeff, don;t you know you are supposed to be SCARED of the wannabe intellectual bully of this blog?

Smarter = more pliable and deferential ????

www.junkscience.com/apr05/coolingworld.pdf

Interesting Newsweek article from 1975 sounds pretty much like a consensus back then too

"Jeff, don;t you know you are supposed to be SCARED of the wannabe intellectual bully of this blog?"

He's probably more worried about all the damage you have done to your own cause.

Ok Mike, what do you want to debate?

He's probably more worried about all the damage you have done to your own cause.

Oh, please stop. You shame me into silence (obedience)

Tell me when the liberal lecture (indoctrination) is done

Again, what do you want to debate Mike?

"OK Mike, what do you want to debate"

Lets debate why you think lewd, raunchy remarks and name jacking in order to argue with yourself is reasonable behavior on a discussion board?

Then lets debate whether you share those kind of values with your kids or not?

"Again, what do you want to debate Mike?

Begone Knave!

Gnite!

"mike", I was highligting how you go from "don't recall" to "have heard." I read and comprehend just fine.

""Mike", I was highlighting how you go from "don't rcall to "have heard."

I know what you were highlighting Jeff.

But what you DIDN'T highlight was how "don't recall" part referred to actual experience with my many family members and friends who were veterans,... while the "have heard" part referred to sketchy media reports that I can neither confirm or deny any real details about.

Thats what taking a remark in it's proper CONTEXT does for you Jeff.

Of course, I realize that you don't really care about context....but it IS part of reading comprehension!

Lets debate why you think lewd, raunchy remarks and name jacking in order to argue with yourself is reasonable behavior on a discussion board?

Ok Mike, how much must I flagellate myself over the sin of posting a mock post under your name that I admitted to immediately? I didn't realize this was a cardinal sin of liberal orthodoxy. Lewd and raunchy. possibly but also raw and honest. Much like your hero Olby likes to wear his heart on his sleeve inan oh so dramatic fashion every night. I guess I shoudl tone it down to your sensitivities much like the need to be politcally correct in our nation to avoid a lawsuit or god forbid, we offend someone with our opinion.

Then lets debate whether you share those kind of values with your kids or not?

As far as my kids asshole, yes I do share the need to question orthodxy with them. I ensure they are exposed to age appropriate material NOT THAT ITS ANY OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS. I know you think with age comes wisdom but like anything else in life that has limits. After a certain point, with age comes intolerance and inertia. I choose not to let them share your set of values which really seems to be a dressed up form of intolerance. If you have kids they are probably grown by now which leads people of your age to view the world in more selfish terms. I know life is grand in your insulated little antique store world Mike but some of us HAVE to deal with reality on a daily basis. any other questions?

Thats what taking a remark in it's proper CONTEXT does for you Jeff.

Of course, I realize that you don't really care about context....but it IS part of reading comprehension!

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 10:25 PM

Shocker, he plays the 'context' card.

McCool: "any other questions?"

Yeah!.... would you say something like "NOT THAT IT'S ANY OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS" to your kids?

And no, I don't think wisdom NECESSARILY comes with age. Many adults play video games all thier lives!....How much "wisdom" would THEY have?

But I DO believe that experience combined with a lifetime of concern for things other than your own little world DOES bring wisdom.

"Again, what do you want to debate Mike?

Begone Knave!

Gnite!

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 10:17 PM

Begone arrogant douchebag go suck down another latte and pretend your a poet hero

RK: "Shocker, he plays the 'context' card."

News flash for Jeff!.....Context is not a "card"!

Yeah!.... would you say something like "NOT THAT IT'S ANY OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS" to your kids?

If they were arrogant middle aged douchebags, YES

But I DO believe that experience combined with a lifetime of concern for things other than your own little world DOES bring wisdom.

Oh there it is again, the "I see a bigger world than you can possibly comprehend you stupid little conservative" You seriously have some type of personality disorder

Jeff, maybe someday you and I will become magically enlightened so we can appreciate context. for now, I am condemned to mere AD HOMINEM ATTACKS on Mike

McCool: "Oh there it is again, the "I see a bigger world than you can possibly comprehend you stupid little conservative. You seriously have some type of peronality disorder."

And exactly WHAT message do you think you are giving me with your frequent "you are an ostrich with your head stuck in the sand" comments?

McCool...meet Mr. Hypocrisy!

Mike speaks in such complex riddles that mere mortals can not possibly understand the context of the wisdom.

I believe you are intelligent enough to see the truth, I honestly think you choose not to view the truth. I am not arrogant and narcissistic like you

Ignorance is forgivable, arrogance is not.

http://www.pantherhouse.com/newshelton/travoltas-pilot-assistant-almost-ready-to-go/

This is weird

McCool: "I honestly think you choose not to view the truth. I am not arrogant and narcissistic like you"

There YOU go again with another one of your "I know the truth if you would only just see" type comments.

"Arrogant and narcissistic" you say? Mr. McCool, meet Mr. Hypocrisy again.

One thing that comes with age and wisdom is the knowledge that the "truth" you're being fed just MIGHT be a lie!

That goes for you 2 or are you SO enlightened thats just not possible?

"That goes for you 2 or are you SO enlightened thats just not possible?"

I have an open mind....thats one reason I'm here. I come here hoping to hear something I haven't heard before.

The problem with you is that you have failed miserably to make your case.
Unfortunately for you, almost everything you say bolsters mine.

In reality, I'm looking for something new...but all you've ever given me are arguments I've heard, considered, and rejected a thousand times before.

Hearing them again doesn't help a bit.

In reality, I'm looking for something new...but all you've ever given me are arguments I've heard, considered, and rejected a thousand times before.

Hearing them again doesn't help a bit.

The funny thing is I was thinking that same thing earlier about you

So there you have it. Lets agree to ignore each other then!

I hate you fucking Republicans. All you do is attack the messenger because you have NO facts. The facts you claim you have are pulled directly out of Limbaugh’s sissy boil butt asshole.

Waterboarding is illegal you dumb fucks. It’s illegal you dumb fucks. Once again, It’s illegal you dumb fucks.

I would gladly get waterboarded on national TV to prove its not torture.

Hearing them again doesn't help a bit.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 11:12 PM

This coming from someone who has said "needless deaths," "maimed," "attacking a country who didn't attack us" hundreds of times in the past!

TDF!!!!(*)[+]------

"The facts you claim you have are pulled directly out of Limbaugh’s sissy boil butt asshole."

posted by a person that is prbably wearing a turbin

Any proof, buddy?

Waterboarding is torture. It has been for over 400 years. In 1947, we successfully prosecuted Japanese military officers for waterboarding. If you think water-boarding is not torture, then how would you feel about our troops getting water-boarded by the enemy you dumb fuck.

Waterboarding is torture. It has been for over 400 years. In 1947, we successfully prosecuted Japanese military officers for waterboarding. If you think water-boarding is not torture, then how would you feel about our troops getting water-boarded by the enemy you dumb fuck.

Posted by: Pissed off Progressive Liberal at December 13, 2007 11:35 PM

I'd say, Hey our enemies are becoming MORE civilized

The one who actually attacked us.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 9:39 PM

Like I was saying........I found this in .4 seconds.

then how would you feel about our troops getting water-boarded by the enemy you dumb fuck.

Posted by: Pissed off Progressive Liberal at December 13, 2007 11:35 PM

Call all the families who had loved one's get their heads chopped off and put on you tube, df.

Royal king, Understand this: If we say that water-boarding is not a crime, then it’s also not a crime when the enemy does it to our troops. Are you out of your fucking mind? Water-boarding is un-American. We don’t torture in this country. If you think that torture is alright, then you are completely insane you dumb fuck.

then how would you feel about our troops getting water-boarded by the enemy you dumb fuck.

Posted by: Pissed off Progressive Liberal at December 13, 2007 11:35 PM

Call all the families who had loved one's get their heads chopped off and put on you tube, df.

Posted by: royal king at December 13, 2007 11:42 PM

But if we just showed them some compassion and righteousness they would come around to OUR way of fighting war. I'm pretty sure, at least thats what Keith thinks.

IT'S WATER - down the mouth and nose. 3 people for less than 1 minute each. We weren't doing amputations. Take a breath for gods sake

Oh yeah, they LIVED.

If we say that water-boarding is not a crime, then it’s also not a crime when the enemy does it to our troops

I'm pretty sure most of them do not care whether its a crime here or not they will kill us given the chance

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

10188 fatal islamic terro attacks worldwide SINCE 9/11

10188 fatal islamic terro attacks worldwide SINCE 9/11

Thats 1600 per year
5 per day
But I don't think it will likely happen here again. or so says a local wiseman around here. Just foolish scaredy cat fairy tales.

You think our enemies give a shit about the Geneva Convention? Were you alive and awake on 9/11? Was that "fair" warfare? Or are you anohter one of the liberal-pussies on this board who'd hand Osama Bin Laden a bomb if you could?

You think our enemies give a shit about the Geneva Convention? Were you alive and awake on 9/11? Was that "fair" warfare? Or are you anohter one of the liberal-pussies on this board who'd hand Osama Bin Laden a bomb if you could?

Posted by: at December 14, 2007 12:03 AM

BUT BUT Rosie said that was an inside job. Keith said it was OUR fault. WHY DO THEY HATE US???? I keep wringing my hands over that question.

http://www.islam-watch.org/AdrianMorgan/Britain-Lessons-in-Cultural-Suicide.htm

Here you go, just for you anonymous just because you like to make the US the bad guy YET AGAIN.

Okay McCool, let’s water-board you until you admit butt fucking Rush Limbaugh for drugs. We’ll continue until you sign a confession. Okay?

Another question: How many Americans are killed by gun-wielding Americans in America each day?

Just keep apologizing and deflecting.....

"Or are you one of the liberal-pussies on this board who'd hand Osama Bin Laden a bomb if you could?"

Um, yeah!.....But with the fuse LIT!

Us "liberal-pussies" are vindictive like that!

Now YOU tell us 12:03 Anon....Why have we given up on OBL in favor of fighting wars against people who didn't attack us?

Let's move the conversation along:

9/11! been done liberals just like to forget
9/11!
9/11!
BILL CLINTON! overdone
THE MONICA CRIME! who cares?
THE LIBERAL MEDIA! a Given
LIBERAL PUSSIES! I suspect these are not shaven and foul smelling

Posted by: at December 14,

Is that too long an article for you anon? I know, there weren't many pictures but plod thru it ok?

Okay McCool, let’s water-board you until you admit butt fucking Rush Limbaugh for drugs. We’ll continue until you sign a confession. Okay?

Posted by: Pissed off Progressive Liberal at December 14, 2007 12:12 AM

Are you sure thats not Pissed ON?

WMDs!

But since none turned up, W had to come up with a half assed excuse, pronto.

Spreading Freedom and Democracy Across the Middle East!

Posted by: at December 14, 2007 12:17 AM

Yeah Democracy and Freedom are a pretty half assed thing to have unless its YOU that doesnt have them.

McCool: "BUT BUT Rosie said it was an inside job"....and only the right gives a damn what 'Rosie' said.

McCool: "Keith said it's OUR fault"....I challenge you to find the quote.

McCool: "WHY DO THEY HATE US?????? I keep wringing my hands over that question."......It's not a 'hand wringing' question any more than understanding the motif for ANY crime is 'hand wringing'. We need to understand the hatred for the same reason we need to understand what motivated that kid to shoot up that mall last week.

Sorry McCool, your liberal stereotypes don't work any better than your other arguments do.

Seriously? Thats it? Thats all you defenders of Keith have?

I thought we were ignoring each other????

McCool: "WHY DO THEY HATE US?????? I keep wringing my hands over that question."......It's not a 'hand wringing' question any more than understanding the motif for ANY crime is 'hand wringing'. We need to understand the hatred for the same reason we need to understand what motivated that kid to shoot up that mall last week -
Heres your answer: He was an angry evil selfish little fucker who should have just shot himself and left the rest of the world alone. As a matter of fact that applies to any muslim terrorist also. I know thats probably not gray enough for you Mike, sorry.

McCool: "Keith said it's OUR fault"....I challenge you to find the quote.

Yeah, like he doesn't communicate that everyday to our country and across the world with his over the top shit about Bush. Even Conservatives can put 2 and 2 together Mike.

McCool: "BUT BUT Rosie said it was an inside job"....and only the right gives a damn what 'Rosie' said.

I'll give you credit for this one

McCool: "I thought we were ignoring each other????"

That was YOUR resolution, not mine. I've found that using you to bolster my own arguments to be quite effective.

Earth to McCool: You're nothing but silly words on a discussion board.

Don't make it more than it is.

McCool: "I thought we were ignoring each other????"

That was YOUR resolution, not mine. I've found that using you to bolster my own arguments to be quite effective.

Earth to McCool: You're nothing but silly words on a discussion board.

Don't make it more than it is.

I laugh a lot at this blog. Don't make it more than it is?? That doesnt apply to "namejacking" does it?

McCool: "He was an angry evil selfish little fucker who should have just shot himself and leave the rest of the world alone."

But taking that attitude doesn't help us prevent the next "angry evil selfish little fucker" from shootting up the next mall,....or school.

Sorry, but we need to know why they do it.

Nothing "grey" about that!

Ok goodnite pissed on, goodnite Mike, goodnite anon. I hope you all dream of Rush tonite.

McCool: "He was an angry evil selfish little fucker who should have just shot himself and leave the rest of the world alone."

But taking that attitude doesn't help us prevent the next "angry evil selfish little fucker" from shootting up the next mall,....or school.

Sorry, but we need to know why they do it.

Nothing "grey" about that!

Posted by: Mike at December 14, 2007 12:33 AM

well good luck talking the next homicidal little maniac to death Mike. You cant fix crazy and you cant fix stupid. Sorry Anon, that wasn't nice to reference you like that

Contrary, to your rather silly assertions McCool, understanding motives, identifying possible malcontents, and rectifying conditions that set them off....HAS prevented and reduced the incidence of many crimes.

That was one of your silliest arguments yet.

You cant fix crazy and you cant fix stupid"

Why are you calling The Factor and Royal King such names?
What have they ever done to you?
They are in you same team!

Posted by: at December 14, 2007 12:38 AM

HOW did you EVER come up with that one??

Contrary, to your rather silly assertions McCool, understanding motives, identifying possible malcontents, and rectifying conditions that set them off....HAS prevented and reduced the incidence of many crimes.

That was one of your silliest arguments yet.

Posted by: Mike at December 14, 2007 12:41 AM

NOW if you can just get the media to ignore them and stop making them infamous
seriously last one.

"NOW if you can just get the media to ignore them and stop making them infamous seriously last one"

NOW you want to muzzle the media!

You "seriously" don't like your freedom, do you?

Hearing them again doesn't help a bit.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 11:12 PM

The one who actually attacked us.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 9:39 PM

wars against people who didn't attack us?

Posted by: Mike at December 14, 2007 12:12 AM

TDF!!!!

"IT'S WATER - down the mouth and nose. 3 people for less than 1 minute each. We weren't doing amputations. Take a breath for gods sake"

If you think it was only 3 people ever you are insane. They are admitting to 3 until the law gets changed to make it legal, or declare it not torture, and extend coverage retroactively. I know at least 3 people who worked suspects in Iraq over plenty. No, they were not doing amputations. No, they did not consider it then or now to be torture. Yes they were ordered to do it.
The problem is accountability. These guys set the wheels in motion and then cry ignorance when events unfold to their logical conclusion.

"Here is a stick. Now go in there and get the information from those prisoner." Then when a guy is accidently beaten to death you can say you never told anyone to beat anybody.

RK: TDF!!!!!

So your position is that Saddam actually DID attack us on 911, huh Jeff?

Sorry Jeff, but truth is not a talking point.

No they never waterboarded anyone either But they were not prohibited from doing so either.

RK: "They were just giving them a little drink of water."

My nomination for stupidest post of the month!

My fanboy senses are reeling:
Olbermann will be on Moyers tonight.

I wish Keith had a show on PBS and not MSNBC.

"I'm not from Alabama, so could you tell me what 'raod rage'."

###
I'm not a smug, arrogant, narcissistic eunuch, so could tell me what "Pinto Noir" is?

My dear Mr. blank-FLUCKER (cue OLD SPICE jingle) must have gotton up on the wrong side of his twin bed this morning. Did Ms. blank-FLUCKER (cue 'Cause I'm a woman, W-O-M-A-N) leave too early for work so you missed out on your morning lecture about making sure Graeme does not spend too much time playing on the new Wii and Kaitlyn puts all of her AMERICAN GIRL dollies away befoer dinner?

Oh, those testicle are close yet so far in her lock box, Mr. blank-FLUCKER (cue OLD SPICE jingle)! Perhaps you'll get 'em tonight after Moyers' show?

Mike,

I think it is arguable to say that although the Geneva Conventions exclude terrorists, al qaeda, they should be applied anyway. It is not a valid argument to claim that the Conventions outright apply as written because they don't.

See below:

Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

Secondly, the type of waterboarding used in the past is not the same technique as now. Again, there is legitimate debate about whether any kind of waterborading is torture, but having a hose shoved down your throat is much different that what is at issue now.

Thirdly, I have never heard McCain use the argument (I know other military oficers have) that if our country waterboards, our military is at risk for the same treatment. He emphasizes that it is wrong to do it because he knows the kind of enemy we face now.

Last, Cecelia made a point on one of the threads that the effectiveness of waterboarding is now gone for this reason: any one captured surely has heard the national headlines and knows that they will not die. These are hardcore militants who knowing that they will not die, aren't likely to give up anything anyways. It took a whole lot more for any of our POW's to break and some of them never did give up anything (Jeremiah Denton). I watched a movie about McCain's ordeal and one of his tortures was having his head shoved into a tub where the slop buckets were emptied.

So your position is that Saddam actually DID attack us on 911, huh Jeff?

Sorry Jeff, but truth is not a talking point.

Posted by: Mike at December 14, 2007 1:26 AM

My 'position' was making you eat your words. I said nothing about shoe shine boy or talking points. Classic olbyloon diversion.

RK: "My 'position' was making you eat your words."

Well, if thats your 'position', when exactly are ya gonna start 'making me eat my words'?

Sharon, I think we basically agree. The language is arguable, as well as the effectiveness.

An important part of my worldview is how America has tarnished it's image in the International community, which I, apparently unlike some others, believe is VERY important.

Phony @ 8:28 AM:

"Writes Lussy:"

""My nomination for stupidest post of the month.""

END QUOTE"

"You ain't nuthin but a partisan hack willing to put the country in danger by supporting a terrosit for political gain and your personal dislike for GW."

I resent that remark!

I did NOT nominate RK for that award because he is a "terrosit"!

Phony: "They better be glad I aint running Gitmo"

"Gitmo"....hell!

You "aint" even convinced anyone you can run your milling machine.

Mike I do recall that the UN assembly cheered when Chavez did his anti-us rant last year.

If this is the civil union you want us to appease, I am not in your corner.

Didain for the US has been popular since the turn of the century, yet you pretend its all a trend that occurred in the last 8 years. I travle often. Internationally, there is more a hate of Bush, than the US, and in 1 year he will be gone. Hopefully a Reuplican will be at the helm not willing to bow to the UN and their human rights comittee headed up by Libya.
They need to clean their act up before they are recognized as the entity they were created to be.

Well, if thats your 'position', when exactly are ya gonna start 'making me eat my words'?

Posted by: Mike at December 14, 2007 11:25 AM
>>>

Hearing them again doesn't help a bit.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 11:12 PM

The one who actually attacked us.

Posted by: Mike at December 13, 2007 9:39 PM

wars against people who didn't attack us?

Posted by: Mike at December 14, 2007 12:12 AM

Ideologies at odds with the democratic, free market system that The United States still (thankfully) is is what places our nation at odds with many around the world. Both the fringe American left, who wants a new nation based on secular socialist ideology, and those foreign open markets competing for economic supremacy, play to put The United States in that negative light. The radical islamists see our open and advanced society as a threat to their totalitarian and religiously bigoted systems that also compete for economic supremacy.

It has been since nation states began. It is a reality. That is why it is so important to remember the fundamentals of The United States governance and economic system.

It is a free market system and when large areas of it are no longer free and open, take away one more aspect of our liberty that makes us less competitive economically and more reliant on policitcal and ideological variables....both domestically and internationally.

It is a governing system based on the ideas expressed prior to the advent of secularist/atheistic rationalism. A democracy of people who still, as a majority, agree with the idea that there is a God. Recognizing a supernatural revelation of right/wrong and the idea that men are inherently equal because they were created by a perfect creator.

Attacking those fundamental facts of The United States cultural, political and economic milleau comes all of the conflict, jealousy and hatred that some in our country feel is justified.

That is an arguable point both of degree and impact. Some try to have it both ways as they vie for the popular vote to become the chief executive (The fringe left's ruling class, The Democrats). Some try to enforce the idea of an independent American who does not fear competition and hardship but uses the gifts and resources of a free society to make the best for themseleves anf their family. (The Republicans). Government (both state and federal) as a last AND TEMPORARY resort to stop severe hardship is justified but should not become a "lifestyle" as it has under leftist control since the mid 20th century.

TIVO ALERT......

Olbermann on Bill Moyers Journal....TONITE...9pm on some PBS stations.

"NOW if you can just get the media to ignore them and stop making them infamous seriously last one"

NOW you want to muzzle the media!

You "seriously" don't like your freedom, do you?

Posted by: Mike at December 14, 2007 12:47 AM

Muzzle the media? How about the media have some standards and not Glorify every tragedy for the sake of ratings. Think that has an effect on aimless kids who feel hopeless and see going out as a mass murderer as their only possible way to become (in)famous. Theres a difference between govt induced censorship and resposnible voluntary reporting.

"NOW if you can just get the media to ignore them and stop making them infamous seriously last one"

NOW you want to muzzle the media!

You "seriously" don't like your freedom, do you?

Posted by: Mike at December 14, 2007 12:47 AM

Muzzle the media? How about the media have some standards and not Glorify every tragedy for the sake of ratings. Think that has an effect on aimless kids who feel hopeless and see going out as a mass murderer as their only possible way to become (in)famous. Theres a difference between govt induced censorship and resposnible voluntary reporting.

"NOW if you can just get the media to ignore them and stop making them infamous seriously last one"

NOW you want to muzzle the media!

You "seriously" don't like your freedom, do you?

Posted by: Mike at December 14, 2007 12:47 AM

Muzzle the media? How about the media have some standards and not Glorify every tragedy for the sake of ratings. Think that has an effect on aimless kids who feel hopeless and see going out as a mass murderer as their only possible way to become (in)famous. Theres a difference between govt induced censorship and resposnible voluntary reporting.

Writes Lussy:

"My nomination for stupidest post of the month!"

END QUOTE

You aint nuthin but a partisan hack willing to put the country in danger by supporting a terrosit for political gain and your personal dislike for GW.

Talk about fucking stupid.

Posted by: Phony Soldier at December 14, 2007 8:28 AM

Well said

Ideologies at odds with the democratic, free market system that The United States still (thankfully) is is what places our nation at odds with many around the world. Both the fringe American left, who wants a new nation based on secular socialist ideology, and those foreign open markets competing for economic supremacy, play to put The United States in that negative light. The radical islamists see our open and advanced society as a threat to their totalitarian and religiously bigoted systems that also compete for economic supremacy.

It has been since nation states began. It is a reality. That is why it is so important to remember the fundamentals of The United States governance and economic system.

It is a free market system and when large areas of it are no longer free and open, take away one more aspect of our liberty that makes us less competitive economically and more reliant on policitcal and ideological variables....both domestically and internationally.

It is a governing system based on the ideas expressed prior to the advent of secularist/atheistic rationalism. A democracy of people who still, as a majority, agree with the idea that there is a God. Recognizing a supernatural revelation of right/wrong and the idea that men are inherently equal because they were created by a perfect creator.

Attacking those fundamental facts of The United States cultural, political and economic milleau comes all of the conflict, jealousy and hatred that some in our country feel is justified.

That is an arguable point both of degree and impact. Some try to have it both ways as they vie for the popular vote to become the chief executive (The fringe left's ruling class, The Democrats). Some try to enforce the idea of an independent American who does not fear competition and hardship but uses the gifts and resources of a free society to make the best for themseleves anf their family. (The Republicans). Government (both state and federal) as a last AND TEMPORARY resort to stop severe hardship is justified but should not become a "lifestyle" as it has under leftist control since the mid 20th century.

Posted by: cee at December 14, 2007 12:34 PM

Well said
I suspect the local wiseman will not approve however.

"Posted by: cee at December 14, 2007 12:34 PM:"

Just another silly attempt by the official OW pastor to tie together a jumble of unrelated religious and economic opinions into one tidy little 'good vs bad' (read 'right vs left') black & white package.

Is that all you got, 'mike?'

Posted by: Sharon at December 14, 2007 10:10 AM

Sharon,

I have an account at Newsbusters now.

Drop me a line there when you have the time!

RK: "Is that all you got, 'mike'?"

Do you mean why didn't I write a narrative so you can pick it apart and choose little pieces and parts that you can play back under the false pretention that you've found a contradiction?

You do NOTHING on this blog but SNIPE, ... and then have the gall to complain on the occasions when I choose to give you little or nothing to snipe at?

It's obvious you lack both the intellect and the courage to ever put your OWN thoughts out there to be picked apart by your detractors.....but I don't have such weaknesses.

Mike does nothing on this blog but come here to prop up his buddy Olbermann by repeatedly changing the subject away from the latest Olbermann lies and then has the nerve, excuse me, the gall to complain about other posters. Mike go get your own blog.

Posted by: cee at December 14, 2007 12:34 PM:"

Just another silly attempt by the official OW pastor to tie together a jumble of unrelated religious and economic opinions into one tidy little 'good vs bad' (read 'right vs left') black & white package.

Posted by: Mike at December 14, 2007 10:49 PM

I KNOW! Thats not a shade of gray at all!!! Is It Mike? Cee MUST be intellectually inferior to you.

RK: "Is that all you got, 'mike'?"

Do you mean why didn't I write a narrative so you can pick it apart and choose little pieces and parts that you can play back under the false pretention that you've found a contradiction?

You do NOTHING on this blog but SNIPE, ... and then have the gall to complain on the occasions when I choose to give you little or nothing to snipe at?

It's obvious you lack both the intellect and the courage to ever put your OWN thoughts out there to be picked apart by your detractors.....but I don't have such weaknesses.

Posted by: Mike at December 15, 2007 1:18 AM

TA DA!! I AM LIBERAL MAN, defender of the spineless, the delusional, the psychotic. Its NOT their fault, its a shade of gray! WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT!! Muslims can't possibly kill us! Don't give them that power!! OH yeah BUSH and FOXNEWS Sucks!

And Anonymous worships the ground that the likes of Olbermann walk on simply because Olbermann reinforces their own biases and lies. Honest reporting is beyond the scope of what Olbermann is capable of and being honest is way beyond the scope of what Anonymous is capable of. No wonder they use the name Anonymous, too ashamed to admit what a gulliable idiot they truly are.

Ideologies at odds with the democratic, free market system that The United States still (thankfully) is is what places our nation at odds with many around the world. Both the fringe American left, who wants a new nation based on secular socialist ideology, and those foreign open markets competing for economic supremacy, play to put The United States in that negative light. The radical islamists see our open and advanced society as a threat to their totalitarian and religiously bigoted systems that also compete for economic supremacy.

It has been since nation states began. It is a reality. That is why it is so important to remember the fundamentals of The United States governance and economic system.

It is a free market system and when large areas of it are no longer free and open, take away one more aspect of our liberty that makes us less competitive economically and more reliant on policitcal and ideological variables....both domestically and internationally.

It is a governing system based on the ideas expressed prior to the advent of secularist/atheistic rationalism. A democracy of people who still, as a majority, agree with the idea that there is a God. Recognizing a supernatural revelation of right/wrong and the idea that men are inherently equal because they were created by a perfect creator.

Attacking those fundamental facts of The United States cultural, political and economic milleau comes all of the conflict, jealousy and hatred that some in our country feel is justified.

That is an arguable point both of degree and impact. Some try to have it both ways as they vie for the popular vote to become the chief executive (The fringe left's ruling class, The Democrats). Some try to enforce the idea of an independent American who does not fear competition and hardship but uses the gifts and resources of a free society to make the best for themseleves anf their family. (The Republicans). Government (both state and federal) as a last AND TEMPORARY resort to stop severe hardship is justified but should not become a "lifestyle" as it has under leftist control since the mid 20th century.

Posted by: cee at December 14, 2007 12:34 PM

Hmmm. I read this about three times. I'm not exactly what your thesis was supposed to be. So I can't reply to this in full.
What I can address is your love for free markets. The ideas of a free market and small government, are ultimately a naive ones. Most people who oppose the free market system have an ultimate understanding, a certain understanding that boils down to this : Capitalism, in some part, cannot happen without the exploitation of person(s), the enviroment, or natural resources (see:the privatization of Bolivia's water system). Of course there are some exceptions (i.e. Ben & Jerrys). It's often a painful truth, and too much for most Americans to handle because we are too complacent and do not see these problems directly.
And I'm not saying that communism or socialism is an end to all problems. And I am not completely anti-capitalist. You have pointed out the many flaws in communism (rightfully so), yet you support a flawed so-called "free" market. Many events throughout history have proven the many failures of capitalism. I dare you to look into Coca-Cola and IBM and their ties to Nazi Germany. Even more relevent today, the many companies who rely heavily on slave labor (http://www.sweatshopwatch.org/index.php?s=67).
There are equally horrible flaws in capitalism, just like communism, the problems are just not as transparent. And are often not brought up in history books.

You should really look into the histories of Nike, GE, Kathy Lee Gifford, Mottel, Exxon Mobil, GoodYear, HGE, Bechtel Corp., Chevron, Citibank, Fox News, IBM, Victoria Secret, Coca Cola.

Just visiting for the first time. Lots of blathering and name calling disguised as discussion...

Damn secular humanist pinko neocommies coming around here and sullying what seems to be a perfectly normal, myopic, right-wingnut dominated board. All those liberal elite allah-lovers should take their complex, nuanced world views and shove them right up their arses so they can see that the world is really just a black or white, "fer us or aggin us" place?

If people would just ask themselves: Who Would Jesus Bomb? - THEN it'd all be crystal clear that when faced with such serious Islamofascist threats we MUST a) abandon all of the values that this country was built upon, b) tear the constitution to shreds, and c) make the executive branch all-powerful...oh wait - we've already done all that.

Never mind.