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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    January 10, 2008
    John Gibson on David Shuster, Mike Barnicle, and Keith Olbermann

    Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly book Culture Warrior

    Enjoy this smackdown of Countdown's favorite corespondent discredited hack Slippery Shuster. But Gibson is just getting warmed up as he then takes aim at MSNBC and its reliance on the dubious Mike Barnicle. And yes, Bathtub Boy gets a few mentions as well...


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (77) | | View blog reactions

    77 Comments

    I swear, MSLSD must be the place where delusiuonal moonbats and plagiarists are put out to pasture.

    Slippery becomes more pathetic by the day. No, Slippery, you are wrong, of course: Ailes, Murdoch and Fox News should not worry about the wrath of the Clinton Machine. You, Olby, Matthews, Howie Fineman and the other socialist loons who threw Shrillary under the bus should watch your backs. She didn't expect you to betray her so viciously. Look out.

    Remember the alleged vast right-wing conspiracy? Her Thighness expects conservatives to battle her, not her fellow lefties.

    Didn't Murdoch once hold a fundraiser for Hillary when she ran for U.S. Senate? He must not hate her that much.

    "Didn't Murdoch once hold a fundraiser for Hillary when she ran for U.S. Senate? He must not hate her that much."

    In fact, Murdoch gave $2,300 to Senator Clinton on June 5, 2007.

    And he gave her another $2,100 on July 26 of 2006.

    Source: (copy and paste) http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Rupert_Murdoch.php

    That's delusional. Sorry for the error.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/world/middleeast/10blackwater.html?_r=3&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1200007795-HhtN95dluIvN/LTDBkXi5A

    Bush's Praetorian Guard of mercenaries dropped CS gas on American troops to clear their own way through a traffic checkpoint. In Bush's privatized American conflicts, generous and vague contracts - rather than official chain of command - loosely define rules of engagement. A dangerous, amoral situation.

    SLoB, we can always count on you and your fellow ultra-lefties to change the subject and hurl insults because you cannot refute facts.

    SLoB: Dude, how's that GED working out for you?

    Funny, Mike is missing from this thread? I wonder why that could be? Maybe because his hero Olbermann was goofing on a Vietnam War hero while he was giving a speech? Mike is the one who claims Keith respects the troops. Is McCain a chicken hawk Mike? Is that why your hero Keith is goofing on him? How respectful of Keith to not even wait for McCain to finish his speech to make a mockery of it.

    Can you imagine what would have happened had someone had Fox jeered and ridiculed a Democratic candidate's speech like this? But let Olbermann and Matthews do it, and it's no big deal-hell, it's to be lauded and celebrated.

    Scratch Scarborough used to be the token conservative on MSDNC. I don't know how he characterized himself these days.

    Scratch Scarborough used to be the token conservative on MSDNC. I don't know how he characterized himself these days.

    Surprisingly bad even for McCain who is a better speaker than Bush but not as good as the Greeter at Wal-Mart. That is not to say I agree with the ridicule. However, if anything, Scarbrough was worse.

    Posted by: A N O N Y M O U S at January 10, 2008 9:20 PM


    You never cease to amaze in the 'ridicule' category. Talk about 'shotgunning.'

    Scratch Scarborough used to be the token conservative on MSDNC. I don't know how he characterized himself these days.

    Posted by: at January 10, 2008 9:27 PM

    Sell out would be a good way to for him to characterize himself.

    Olbermahn, Chris Matthews, and Scratch
    What they've got I don't want to catch McCain was a brave man
    Unlike Mister man-tan
    Who needs a padded cell with a latch

    Olbermann is an jerk.
    Hey mocks McCain.
    McCain is a hero, Olbermann is a terrror supporter.

    "He's [Scarborough] got a gift for facilitating discussion and interviewing."

    Posted by: A N O N Y M O U S at January 10, 2008 10:02 PM

    What Scratch has is a gift for sucking up for Boy Blunder Abrams. It's no coincidence that Scratch's "epiphany' coincided exactly with the time that Boy Blunder took over as GM and MSLSD went from a mere liberal sounding board to full fledged left fringe nut house. Scratch read the tea leaves and knew his days were numbered as the "good boy conservative" so he took a left turn, complete with a slobbering, snivelling, bootlicking performance by apologizing to Hillary on the air for any criticism he had ever directed towards her. It was a true Oprah moment and as ghastly and craven as anything seen in these parts since Olby handed Bill a check on the air.

    After listening to this abomination I can't help but think that KO and his sycophantic acolytes here justify no opposing viewpoints from KO's newscast, ahem, b/c it results in shouting matches that can barely be heard much less convey serious information.

    Surely this circus masquerading as a newscast would have benefited from not being audible.

    This could have been a skit on SNL with no editing or additions.

    When you put the clowns in charge don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.

    Grammie

    Thanks J$, another excellent example of the quality coverage I have come to expect on MSNBC.

    Was there a retraction of the Major Garrett WPITW story last night on COUNTDOWN?

    The person who cultivated a niche audience was/is Olbermann. He was in danger of being fired in 2005, by his own admission, and what was his response? To style himself as the liberal version of O'Reilly and throw away any iota of journalistic integrity he might once have had even if it meant lying, distorting, etc. And what is his rabid fans defense when these things are pointed out to them? Talk about Bush instead.

    http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=40747

    From their crumbling positions of power, the pathetic neocons are straining for another "Gulf of Tonkin" incident to ignite a war with Iran. The "swarming Iranian speed-boat" incident is shown by unedited recordings and affidavits of American sailors to have been total bullshit.

    So true Brandon....as is the lead lead story at TVNewser this morning.....

    "But he seems to be doing well for himself in the office now. Tullis cites a senior executive at MSNBC, who says, 'Keith runs MSNBC. It's been an amazing turnaround, because two years ago they were going to cancel him. Because of his success, he's in charge. Chris Matthews is infuriated by it.'

    "The article also touches on Olbermann's goals, in the context of his main competition, Fox News Channel. 'I'd like it to be the accurate counterweight to Fox. My attitude is not to counterbalance them because they're conservatives; it's counterbalancing because some of their stuff is outlandishly in violation of every tenet of responsible broadcasting,' he says."

    http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/msnbc/olbermann_talks_office_politics_other_politics_74648.asp


    ###
    Yeah, ok....especially after the lie this week...It is clear Olbermann abandoned any ethical standard of journalism in his turn to the radical left and now he simply lies about it....What credibility the man displays.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/world/middleeast/10blackwater.html?_r=3&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1200007795-HhtN95dluIvN/LTDBkXi5A

    Bush's Praetorian Guard of mercenaries dropped CS gas on American troops to clear their own way through a traffic checkpoint. In Bush's privatized American conflicts, generous and vague contracts - rather than official chain of command - loosely define rules of engagement. A dangerous, amoral situation.

    Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at January 10, 2008 7:18 PM
    SLoB, we can always count on you and your fellow ultra-lefties to change the subject and hurl insults because you cannot refute facts.

    Posted by: at January 10, 2008 7:24 PM


    Is there an "insult" in my post? Are there any "facts" included in the pointless primary horse-race mumblances posted above it by you drowning rat fascists on this thread?

    Why don't you read the article I posted; and then attack the 10 American soldiers it covers who reported being gassed by a Blackwater helicopter in order to free a Blackwater vehicle from a checkpoint traffic jam?

    Dennis Miller? He had to literally pay his "niche audience" to sit through his last attempt at a show, and even that couldn't keep the studio occupied. First he went laugh-track; then he went belly up. What's he doing now? He gets a sympathy guest-spot on Jon Stewart and Colbert once in a while, and he leaves the LIVE audiences flat.

    There is no humor on the right; that stupid "Daily Show" knock-off on FOX lasted three or four weeks (kept alive during that time, once again, by an electronic laugh track). I watched it a couple of times; it was pathetic.

    You can't be funny if you're totally wrong and fundamentally decietful - it just doesn't work. Of course the most stark mean-spirited gags probably appeal to the fascist base of the Republican part, and tickle their demented funny-bones:

    Glenn Beck produces send-ups of "Best Hits" record offers of deadly suicide bombings in Iraq, and featuring actual footage of bloody streets and dazed, wounded civilians. I bet many of you would be rolling on the floor at this sort of "joke".

    Wow.. this guy just smacks of bitterness.

    SLOB,

    I guess you prefer Rosie O'Donnel's version of left wing humor.

    "It's the first time fire ever melted steel".

    You conpiracy theorists are the funniest people of all.

    MSNBC is pushing Gov Huckabee, Morning Joe gives him advertising time that even Romney can not match. Shuster has only said one thing that I agree with him on, thats the Independents thought Obama was a lock, because the MSM said so, an they went over to help McCain. These Pundits who seem to use their opinions as fact, should keep it to themselves.

    Anatomy of a loon...
    SLOB's link does NOT call the incident bullshit... it makes it overblown at best. And the writer is trying to discredit the US, but makes a lot of assumptions giving the Iranians the benefit of the doubt. Alas, another democrat blaming the US for an international incident.

    Damn USA- it built those twin towers in the way of those hijacked planes. Evil USA!

    MSNBC likes Huckabee because he is the republican that they think is MOST beatable.

    And they are now handling Hillbillery with kid gloves, which is ludicrous. She's a candidate- poor girl!

    Anatomy of a loon...
    SLOB's link does NOT call the incident bullshit... it makes it overblown at best. And the writer is trying to discredit the US, but makes a lot of assumptions giving the Iranians the benefit of the doubt. Alas, another democrat blaming the US for an international incident.

    Damn USA- it built those twin towers in the way of those hijacked planes. Evil USA!

    Posted by: benson at January 11, 2008 10:08 AM


    No, the "incident" was clearly Bullshit.

    There were Iranian speedboats; there was communication between US ships and the boats.

    There was NO alarm on the part of American ships; there was NO threat issued from the boats. Read the article; there was no imminent fire-fight such as created by the Pentagon press-artists.

    So the WHOLE thing is bullshit? Riduculous.

    What were there boats doing buzzing our ships?
    Is approaching a war ship in International waters harmless?
    Why did the Iranians declare the whole incident didn't occur AND THEN release video of them in proximity?

    Sure, the imminent firing was overblown, but you are totally ignoring the root of the incident. The proximity of the Iranians warranted firing... especially in light of the Iranians capturing a British ship in International waters and holding their crew as hostages.

    I suspect you believe the Iranians on both incidents!

    ...whereas there is clear footage, soldiers' affidavits, and forensic evidence that American troops were attacked with CS gas by Bush's mercenary Preatorian guard, Blackwater. ...and none of you will acknowledge it. Who's side are you on?

    ...whereas there is clear footage, soldiers' affidavits, and forensic evidence that American troops were attacked with CS gas by Nancy & Harry's mercenary Preatorian guard, Blackwater. ...and none of you will acknowledge it. Who's side are you on?

    Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at January 11, 2008 10:29 AM

    Why don't your buddies Nancy & Harry investigate the EVIL Blackwater? Last time I check, they are the ones funding Blackwater. Lets just call them Nancy & Harry's mercenary Preatorian guard.

    Why don't your buddies Nancy & Harry investigate the EVIL Blackwater? Last time I check, they are the ones funding Blackwater. Lets just call them Nancy & Harry's mercenary Preatorian guard.

    Posted by: The Factor at January 11, 2008 10:59 AM


    OK. Discussions on OW will henceforth refer to Blackwater as "Bush's, Reid's, and Pelosi's Mercenary Praetorian Guard". It is probably a more acurrate characterization than I used in my previous message.

    ...but I'm curious, Factor; why does Democratic complicity in such unconstitutional war-profiteering alleviate any concerns on your part in regard to the abuses perpetrated on our troops by the Blackwater hirelings?

    Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at January 11, 2008 11:17 AM

    Your the one calling them Bush's Blackwater when Bush doesn't fund them so obviously you don't care about what they do unless you can wrap it around Bush's neck. You are nothing but a hack. Your friends Harry and Nancy are investigating Baseball, so where are their priorities? Post here when you are something more than a partisan hack.

    Oh No, I'm surprised that MSNBC's crack political staff actually tried to demoralize a republican presidential candidate. It's so good to know that if I ever want to hear an un-biased political report I can finally get one from Fox News!

    Olbermann states that Fox news violates the "tenets of journalism" and yet he admitted to Moyers that an "emergency situation" allowed him to violate the standards of news reporting that forbids (or should) attacking people you report on.

    The arrogance of the man is limitless.

    Olbermann states that Fox news violates the "tenets of journalism" and yet he admitted to Moyers that an "emergency situation" allowed him to violate the standards of news reporting that forbids (or should) attacking people you report on.

    The arrogance of the man is limitless.

    Posted by: Steve at January 11, 2008 2:20 PM

    Olbermann has long stated that the Bush Administration uses "emergency situations" as an excuse to abridge Constitutional rights and that the country is in imminent danger that they will declare martial law at any second, under...ummmmm.....the flimsiest... of pretexts. :D

    Sir Loin of delusion seems to be greatly excited by Blackwater, a company of retired servicemen and servicewomen who provide security to UN personnel, non-governmental organizations, and the State department.

    Given their clients probably more Democrats are being protected today than Republicans.

    But the "praetorian guard" nonsense only shows the most extreme of hallucinations. Blackwater has nothing to do with the President. Certainly nothing to do with choosing one. One might get the idea that Sir Loin is grossly ignorant of the Roman history much less current events.

    One might get the idea that Sir Loin is grossly ignorant of the Roman history much less current events.

    Posted by: SPQR at January 11, 2008 7:54 PM

    He chooses to get his 'news' from the fringe left wing blogs, Olbermahn and the old york times. His brain is washed and not in a good way.

    Sir Loin of delusion seems to be greatly excited by Blackwater, a company of retired servicemen and servicewomen who provide security to UN personnel, non-governmental organizations, and the State department.

    But the "praetorian guard" nonsense only shows the most extreme of hallucinations. Blackwater has nothing to do with the President. Certainly nothing to do with choosing one. One might get the idea that Sir Loin is grossly ignorant of the Roman history much less current events.

    Posted by: SPQR at January 11, 2008 7:54 PM


    Blackwater is comprised of retired service people, certainly; from the USA, from Germany, from South Africa, from Argenrtina, from Chile...

    ...and they are hired primarily by the state department; a functionary of the executive branch. As hirelings, they have no constitutional parameters to define their activities - its all in the sloppily constructed contracts, and in the special laws made on their behalf by Paul Bremer way back in 2003.

    Internal memos have surfaced from this company that show that they view killing as good PR - that any killing can be spun into proof of being proactive on the part of their employers; hence the unprovoked murder of 17 civilians last spring.

    There are numerous accounts of these mercenaries threatening or attacking our troops or allies in Iraq. In one incident a group of Blackwater employees removed several prisoners from the custody of American troops at gunpoint; one Blackwater "shooter" (as they call themselves) shot and killed the bodyguard of a high ranking Iraqi official in a drunken argument. This guy is free and unprosecuted.

    So, while they are not a point-by-point match with the Imperial Roman Praetorian guard (you mincing pedant); their special status, special relationship with the executive, and very high rates of compensation relative to real troops make them arrogant, willful, and dangerous. They are, bottom line, mercenaries with no demonstrable alegience to the United States, merely to their employers within the American government. Close enough of an historic analogy to make "Praetorian" a handy slur to hurl.

    ...but righties on this board cannot help but chase their strawmen, lest they have to face the real issues.

    Your the one calling them Bush's Blackwater when Bush doesn't fund them so obviously you don't care about what they do unless you can wrap it around Bush's neck. You are nothing but a hack. Your friends Harry and Nancy are investigating Baseball, so where are their priorities? Post here when you are something more than a partisan hack.

    Posted by: The Factor at January 11, 2008 11:39 AM


    I'm with you Factor. Reid and Pelosi are nothing but cowardly collaborators with a radical executive branch. I gather from your post that you wish as strongly as I that meaningful investigations would be launched in regard to the dangerous abuses of Blackwater etc. The way to get this accomplished is to pester your representatives in congress, and to strive to elect replacements that will actually attend to the publics interests.

    The party that wears its religion on its sleeve has these two disgraceful and mean spirited spokespersons at their core.
    Only in wingnutville !

    Posted by: why I'm not a republican at January 12, 2008 11:42 AM


    I thank Almighty God every day you aren't on my side.........

    Tough to live down, little man.

    Posted by: at January 12, 2008 1:23 PM


    Thanks, scumbag!

    How ironic, you thank God, but, argue there is no God. Confused or just stupid? Guessing the latter.

    Hey anon...if there is a God and you accept the naturalist's explaination of life on earth, please explain to me the "myths" of creation then....why do they exist? WHy are there no formal religious creation stories that even resemble science's explaination o fthe origions of the universe and the life we observe?

    You have to have some basis for belief! The ancient hebrew scriptures have a totally different description of how life appeared....it was created by the spoken word of I AM....Jehovah....Science states it evolved from the combination of atoms into amino acids that then created logical codes to make functioning proteins that then combined to form cell organs that then combined to form a cell that then was able to replicate itself and bammmm....Natural Selection started its influence...genetic mutations that were beneficial in survival created billions upon billions of differenent pehnotypes that lead to the formation of all of the different species....

    Mmmm....not one world relgioin or ancient text seems to have the diety working like that.....I wonder why?

    So, anon.....Believing in God and Natural Selection as FACT seems a bit dubious, logically....Please defend your conclusions for me.

    You don't have to be an atheist to believe in scientific fact of evolution.

    Posted by: at January 12, 2008 2:16 PM

    What was it you were saying about "flunking 5th grade?"

    Poor Professor Honeydew...knows nothing of the scriptures and the idea that Christ Himself references the events recorded in The Torah not as parables but as historical occurances...Now to the one who believes Christ is God....you know, Chrisitans, and God is all knowing, how does one reconcile Christ stating those events occurred and the manmade conclusion that they are all "parables."

    Again, logic, mental midget....God says clearly, He is the creator...Christ says clearly, Adam and Eve, Jonah, Abraham and Sarah having a son in their 90's, Joshua and Jericho, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc....all those uncomfortable stories that modern men like you simply cannot bring yourselves to accept on faith....

    Mmm.....like I said, who has the contradictory and unsupported "belief system?"

    But back to evolution....please again, an example of macroevolution and explain to me how atoms combined to form amino acids in a universe that follows the laws of thermodynamics like the rule of increasing entropy!

    That is how poor your understanding of modern Darwinian evolutionary theory is, mental midget....It is plain and simple....the universe is only a physical place without a supernatural....and the expplaination of how life became what it is today does not require a creator and in fact, shows that there is not one as has been stated in the worlds religions....

    And the secular humanist will proudly proclaim that idea....So, your try at a middle ground is dubious...Science claims no opinion about the existence of God BUT the rabid secularist, like yourself, will use one's belief in God and his interaction with his creation (whether it be through prayer, revelation, taking Jonah out of the fish or creating Adam and Eve) and cast harsh, judgemental words upon them....

    Nice try to have it both ways, mental midget....trying to appear tolerant when in reality you are one of the worst bigots I have come across in my pilgramage through secular and nonsecular institutions.

    "Again, logic, mental midget....God says clearly, He is the creator...Christ says clearly, Adam and Eve, Jonah, Abraham and Sarah having a son in their 90's,..."


    I think you mean "circular logic", Phari-cee. The Bible says that God is the creator, and inspired the writing of the Bible. Pristine tautology.

    The Factor: For investigations by anything this administration has done?
    SLOB: You don't know the Factor !
    He's against most of the principles in our Constitution that our founding fathers put forth.
    He's the all time partisan GOP hack of the ages.

    Posted by: at January 12, 2008 11:55 AM

    I know, anon; I'm just trying to show him where his pursuit of irrelevant straw men leads his arguments. He never responds when I do this.

    So glad you chime in during the discussion of the scriptures, Lucy, but remain silent about the lack of evidence supporting secular humanism's explaination of how life came to be....

    It seems that mythology, whether is is shrouded in science or not, needs the believer to assume much....accept things on faith....I still do not have your take on your origins story.....

    "Nice try to have it both ways, mental midget....trying to appear tolerant when in reality you are one of the worst bigots I have come across in my pilgramage through secular and nonsecular institutions."

    You seem none to tolerent of atheist. you expect respect for views that at least fly in the face of what most consider possible (like jonah living in the belly of a whale)
    but seem to have little for for those who beleive that is impossible. It seems there is alot of rage on both sides here,

    But back to evolution....please again, an example of macroevolution and explain to me how atoms combined to form amino acids in a universe that follows the laws of thermodynamics like the rule of increasing entropy!

    Posted by: cee at January 12, 2008 3:06 PM

    Easy. Each little atom independently said "I AM", and became alive. It is written right here on this post, so it is true!

    I think you mean "circular logic", Phari-cee. The Bible says that God is the creator, and inspired the writing of the Bible. Pristine tautology.
    Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at January 12, 2008 3:34 PM

    No. SLOB, the Bible does not say that God inspired the writing of the Bible. The Catholic Church has a teaching authority called the Magisterium that the Protestant faith does not. The Catholic Bible includes more books than a Protestant Bible. A Protestant cannot explain why sacred books were taken out of the Bible. He/she cannot point to the Bible and explain what books are inspired by the words of Scripture. You have unwittingly made a point that I make to Jehovah Witnesses when they come to the door.

    To the poster at 3:39 PM...please look at who started it all....a post about Maher mocking people who take communion....My response to that intolerance uses intolerance because someone started the crap about the inquisition of "Do you believe in evolution."

    Lucy, why, anon whoever, can be atheists, agnostics, whatever...it is no skin off my nose...However, in the interaction of the public square, we have a fanatic faction in this country who demands secularism....and I see no legal or ethical reason to believe that to participate in the government or public institutions that one must leave their personal beliefs at the exit....It is a violation of God given human rights to require such and the inquisition about whether one believes evolution as the life creating force is a step down that slippery slope of religious bigotry.....

    Bigotry that enables people to apply thier worldview unfairly on people based on government authority....and iun this case making secularism the state religion.

    Make no mistake, having a belief system that has no supernatural is as valid as the others, but not superior or special that it is the only system allowed in the public square.

    That is my final word on this argument and for those religious bigots like Maher, I hope they mend their ways and stop the hate!

    Easy. Each little atom independently said "I AM", and became alive. It is written right here on this post, so it is true!

    Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at January 12, 2008 3:39 PM


    Spolbyloon logic....

    That is my final word on this argument and for those religious bigots like Maher, I hope they mend their ways and stop the hate!
    Posted by: cee at January 12, 2008 3:50 PM

    That is why they come here, Cee, to vent their hate, their hate at George Bush, their hate of people who publicly discuss faith; yet terrorists don;t feel the brunt at all.

    Speaking of Bill Maher, that shameless site Newsbusters gives kudos to him:

    http://www.newsbusters.org/

    Bill Maher Mercilessly Slams Hillary and her Crying Game

    Murder of an unborn child is "not murder" in NC. How nice........

    Your problem, Phari-cee, is that you fail to see science for what it is: the pursuit of answers; or "truth", if you will.

    Theories regarding the beginning of the universe and of life are the expression of plausible constructs supported by empirical observations. When science presents a new explanation of this sort it is often presented as unassailable "fact", and this is improper, in most cases. There should always be a statement regarding alternatives unforseen by gaps in the data.

    But your Bible is not data; it is literature. To discard the best hypotheses of science because of an incomplete recognition of all possible variables or a 100% complete data set, in favor of common fairy-tales for which there is no real-world accountability, is simply moronic.

    You would say that God created dogs. Did God create both Samoyeds and Great Danes? No; these are breeds demonstrably altered in recent times to the degree that mating between them without technological assisstance is essentially impossible - one of the criteria used to differentiate species in nature (certain baboon species that occupy the same territories could theoretically produce offspring, but do not due to cultural and temporal peculiarities regarding the receptivity of ovulating females) the same can be said for miniature horses and the giant Belgians and Clydesdales - and these forms were clearly formed in historic times by human selection of genetic traits.

    Nature and accident applies similar pressures; usually with less, but sometimes with much greater precision.

    No. SLOB, the Bible does not say that God inspired the writing of the Bible. The Catholic Church has a teaching authority called the Magisterium that the Protestant faith does not. The Catholic Bible includes more books than a Protestant Bible. A Protestant cannot explain why sacred books were taken out of the Bible. He/she cannot point to the Bible and explain what books are inspired by the words of Scripture. You have unwittingly made a point that I make to Jehovah Witnesses when they come to the door.

    Posted by: Sharon at January 12, 2008 3:47 PM


    What is the point you make to them? That your religion and its cousins are irrevocably victim to the whim of human bureaucracy?

    I don't think you are really interested in that debate, but you are correct about the circular argument.

    "However, in the interaction of the public square, we have a fanatic faction in this country who demands secularism....and I see no legal or ethical reason to believe that to participate in the government or public institutions that one must leave their personal beliefs at the exit..."

    We also have a fantatical section that demands christinaty. When Bill O'Reilly is complaining about the war on Christmas he is demanding that Department stores use the term "merry Christmas" and not "happy Holidays." in his view it is wrong for a store on their own property to use a more inclusive term whiches wishes good cheer to those (like the jews) who celebrate a different holiday that time of year.

    Personally I could care less that You are Christian, it seems as though you feel it is contributing meaningfulness in your life and if it does more power to you.

    I however don't want to go into a public courtroom that my tax dollars are paying for and see the ten commanments. I think that creates the perception that this building is a place where Criastian's are supreme. I think that is unfair to an atheist, unfair to hindus unfair to buddhist, unfair to muslims etc... and let me ask you this wouldn't you be a little uneasy about walking into a courtroom on trial for some crime and in every room you see "There is no god but allah and mohhamed is his prophet?" it kind of says this is aplace for people of a certain group. if your life is in their hands you might feel pretty uncomfortable about no being a muslim.

    I gave the Catholic teaching on evolution, Adam and Eve and literal reading of the Bible on another thread. I'll repeat it here for your convenience.

    This is Catholic Church teaching:

    Pope Pius XII declared that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God" (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36).


    Pope Pius XII stated: "When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own" (Humani Generis 37).

    Make fun of it if you will. The Church does not discount science as erroneously believed.

    Finally,

    Pope Pius XII: "What is the literal sense of a passage is not always as obvious in the speeches and writings of the ancient authors of the East, as it is in the works of our own time. For what they wished to express is not to be determined by the rules of grammar and philology alone, nor solely by the context; the interpreter must, as it were, go back wholly in spirit to those remote centuries of the East and with the aid of history, archaeology, ethnology, and other sciences, accurately determine what modes of writing, so to speak, the authors of that ancient period would be likely to use, and in fact did use. For the ancient peoples of the East, in order to express their ideas, did not always employ those forms or kinds of speech which we use today; but rather those used by the men of their times and countries. What those exactly were the commentator cannot determine as it were in advance, but only after a careful examination of the ancient literature of the East" (Divino Afflante Spiritu 35–36).
    Posted by: Sharon at January 12, 2008 3:32 PM

    slob, if someone was across the street from your house yelling "you're house will blow up in 2 minutes" would you take it as a threat?

    "That is why they come here, Cee, to vent their hate, their hate at George Bush, their hate of people who publicly discuss faith; yet terrorists don;t feel the brunt at all"

    That is why many on your side of these arguments are here as well Sharon. To vent your hate of Keith Olbermann, Hillary Clinton, People who feel evolution is correct.
    It is the whole purpose of this board really. You are partially correct in your sentiment but you refuse to recignize it in yourself

    Hey anon...if there is a God and you accept the naturalist's explaination of life on earth, please explain to me the "myths" of creation then....why do they exist? WHy are there no formal religious creation stories that even resemble science's explaination o fthe origions of the universe and the life we observe?"


    Because essentially all religion (except for the Scientologists - go figure) dates to a time when mankind lacked anything resembling our current expanatory arsenal, but still had the human drives for curiosity and expression. Myth/religion began as a way to explore obvious questions for which no empirical means existed to derive anything like a realistic answer. Imbued in these wild-ass guesses were bits of mortality and creativity of the cultures that cobbled them together, giving them the status of fine art.

    Now when societies became complex and socially stratified, these stories were commandeered as vehicles for the propaganda of social control - hence the invention of monotheism to model a centralized earthly authority.

    I however don't want to go into a public courtroom that my tax dollars are paying for and see the ten commanments. I think that creates the perception that this building is a place where Criastian's are supreme. I think that is unfair to an atheist, unfair to hindus unfair to buddhist, unfair to muslims etc... and let me ask you this wouldn't you be a little uneasy about walking into a courtroom on trial for some crime and in every room you see "There is no god but allah and mohhamed is his prophet?" it kind of says this is aplace for people of a certain group. if your life is in their hands you might feel pretty uncomfortable about no being a muslim.


    I'm not sir loin but the answer is maybe RK. You might take this as eqivicating, but the way you worded that could also be a warning. as in: "Your house will blow up....I saw a guy plant a bomb there" But if it is a neighbor who hates my guts, and said he was going to get me. I'd probably take it as a threat.

    I'm not sir loin but the answer is maybe RK. You might take this as eqivicating, but the way you worded that could also be a warning. as in: "Your house will blow up....I saw a guy plant a bomb there" But if it is a neighbor who hates my guts, and said he was going to get me. I'd probably take it as a threat.

    Posted by: at January 12, 2008 4:27 PM


    Nice of you to change the whole scenario. I posed the question to slob because he claimed the iranians circling our Naval ship and saying "you're ship will blow up in 2 minutes" was not a threat.

    Nice of you to change the whole scenario. I posed the question to slob because he claimed the iranians circling our Naval ship and saying "you're ship will blow up in 2 minutes" was not a threat.

    Posted by: royal king at January 12, 2008 4:33 PM


    You must have missed the parts about the voices clearly not originating from the boats, and the association between the two being an artifact of Pentagon editing - not to mention the reports that the American ships reported no particular alarm during the incident.

    "Nice of you to change the whole scenario. I posed the question to slob because he claimed the iranians circling our Naval ship and saying "you're ship will blow up in 2 minutes" was not a threat."

    Well then The second part of what i wrote would have covered that wouldn't it? However, I just saw your post and didn't read far enough back to see the topic being discussed.

    You must have missed the parts about the voices clearly not originating from the boats, and the association between the two being an artifact of Pentagon editing - not to mention the reports that the American ships reported no particular alarm during the incident.

    Posted by: Sir Loin of Beef at January 12, 2008 4:38 PM


    Find a different news source. The unedited video was released yesterday. Olby won't tell you that, though.

    The US alleges that five speedboats came within about 200m (650ft) of two US vessels transiting through the Strait of Hormuz.

    A day after making the claim, the US military released five minutes of video and audio, which appeared to back its account of the stand-off.

    At one point during the audio recording a heavily-accented voice in English can be heard radioing: "I am coming to you. You will explode after a few minutes."

    It is the whole purpose of this board really. You are partially correct in your sentiment but you refuse to recignize it in yourself
    Posted by: at January 12, 2008 4:22 PM

    I did comment here initially (over a year ago) because I was angry at Olbermann. I continued to comment because I enjoyed the banter of politics. At that time, there was animosity among some, but not like it turned into the past several months. When attacked, I have responded back. This is not the place you look to for role models, so holding anyone up as an example here is quite ridiculous. Everyone is flawed and in this atmosphere, flaws become amplified.

    Well, I never held anyone up as a role model. i agree that there are really none to be had here. My point was this blog was created in anger and almost all who flock here do so because of anger. I don't think it is fair to say those who come here angry at bush are much differnt than those who are here angry at 'Secular progressives."

    There is enough anger on both sides and accusing either side of having the monopoly is in my opinion not accurate.

    Finally (though I think it is the minority) some are just interested in politics and really bear no ill will.

    Finally (though I think it is the minority) some are just interested in politics and really bear no ill will.
    Posted by: at January 12, 2008 5:42 PM

    Politics draws in the topic of religion, things become heated, and you can follow the progression from there.

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