Just in using the word "pimp," Keith Olbermann contributed to the unprofessional environment that is MSNBC. I was offended at the time as I was over HRC's public Senate commitee comments that suggested General Petareus was a liar....

Olbermann has no leg to stand on apologizing over Shuster's comments when his own use of the word "pimp," was demeaning to the honorable General Petraeus who has shown no behavior requring his country's disdain.

The only thing operating here is political bias and Olbermann showed it again in that Special Comment back in September regarding the surge. It will be interesting to see his choice of words if he chooses to cover the surge now as it is again percolating up in coverage this past weekend.

I predict we will not hear the word, "pimp," even as a root, come from any MSNBC mouth....including the lame and cowardly Keith Olbermann.

Gee what are the odds F&F get worst person tonight?

Then again, Keith might not show. Is that running water I hear?

Calling Alison Stewart!!!!!

Gee what are the odds F&F gets worst person tonight?

Then again, Keith might not show. Is that running water I hear?

Calling Alison Stewart!!!!!

Wow, I was wrong about the news hole. My post actually got through. Of course, not a single person responded to it. Hands over eyes, I'm sure. And this, my last post @ 2/11/08.

I know this will never get through, but, worth a shot!

Keith Olbermann, 9/20/07: "And in pimping General David Petraeus and in the violation of everything this country has been assiduously and vigilantly against for 220 years, you have tried to blur the gleaming radioactive demarcation between the military and the political, and to portray your party as the one associated with the military, and your opponents as the ones somehow antithetical to it."

jeff Sacramento, ca (Sent Saturday, February 09, 2008 3:26 PM)

Ouch....

I am listening to Rush and he just asked the question....

Did Shuster treat Chelsea worse than Bill treated Monica?

Tsk, tsk....Rush will likely not get in trouble with Olbermann over that one....I think Olbermann (and MSNBC) wants the Shuster thing to just fade away.

It is interesting though....Hillary has never mentioned how poorly Monica was treated by Bill...the lying, the humiliation from his lying as the story unravelled....I wonder why?

Oh that's right....it was all a rightwing conspiracy and only about oral sex.....The politics of "sex" (pimping, prostitution, adultery, sexual harassment, etc.) is very complicated and self serving.

And many in the democrat party really wants to inflict 4 more years of this garbage on the rest of us?....

Please drop Clinton Co. dems!

"The Barack I Knew" by a Right Wing Whacko (post #1)

There is something profoundly surreal about having known someone like Barack Obama, whose political career has seen a meteoric rise that is the stuff of political fairytales. To turn on the television and see a once-familiar face grown slightly more mature, hear the same vocal intonations and note many of same personal characteristics – now all presented as elements of a “rock star” persona – is a strange experience.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/CarolPlattLiebau/2007/03/05/the_barack_i_knew

Geez bob... Are you that afraid that you had to cut the post down to a paragraph ? Your point of view is rapidly becoming extinct.. The dinosaurs were always the last to know that they were done.

You were warned about lengthy cutting and pasting of off-topic articles. You're lucky I didn't delete it entirely. Keep complaining and I will.

My computer is streaming Hannity now (I'm doing a lot of paperwork today).....he is mentioning Olbermann's pimping remark regarding General Petraeus....

Right-wing radio just loves to point out the hypocrisy of the far left.....Like I said last week...Olbermann's sanctimony makes him vulnerable to this conclusion and his WPITW garbage is a daily reminder to his self-rightousness....

Olbermann's previous anti-Semitism and other insensivity has come back to bite him in the butt.....

I hope MSNBC sees the light soon.

So now we have Rush and Hannity on the right attacking Olbermann over the Shuster comment and Paul Krugman on the far left defending Clinton Co. What a mess....NBC News is supposed to COVER the news.....not MAKE it.....

Right?

And Hannity is now comparing Chelsea's treatment by Shuster to Monica's treatment by Hillary and Bill Clinton.....

Red Meat anyone?

And I ask again.....Does American REALLY need 4 more years of Clinton Co. and this sliminess?

So basically this is your logic Cee.

1) Shuster attacks Clinton\'s Daughter.

2) Hannity compares that to the treatment of a women that had an extra marrital affair with Hillary\'s husband. (how exaclty?)

3) We therefore shouldn\'t have the clintons back in office depite peace and prosperity under their administration. Because 8 years after monicagate, Chelsea is slimed by MSNBC?

WOW!

Anon....think about Hillary's speech after the story broke and her husband denied the allegations.....

She blamed a right-wing conspiracy.....she denied her husband would have an affair.....

Even after all of the previous abuse by Bill against women all around Arkansas and the Hillary established "Bimbo" patrols....she would go after such a political line to protect her and her husband's power....

Then?....when there is no way to refute the evidence and poor Monica is going to confess.....

Bill admits and where is Hillary?.....

Silence....She has never addressed how her husband treated a 20-something year old intern and all the trouble his lying did to her and her family.....

HRC is all upset over Chelsea YET we have never heard her opinion about a powerful man using his position to engage in adulterous sodomy.....

So anon....you want 4 more years of these slimy people?....Are you a democrat primary voter?....Are you Professor Honerydew (Bob)?.....Because I will LAUGH if you are a HRC supporter because she and her husband are the most dirty and scuzy politicians this country has seen in a long time....

Especially when you have a good alternative in the first serious African American to run for President....Obama....

HRC? Why?

The Clintons are history.. hopefully forever.. Our next president is the true indication of how badly Dumbya has screwed up this country. Congrats Dummy you made having a black man become president.. at least you have done something right.

O'Lielly:

Only in regards to your words about Clinton Co....from your lips to heaven....

Oh wait....you're an atheist.....never mind.....

Why any democrat would be supporting HRC is beyond me....She and her husband are so low class and will do and say anything to win....

including race baiting......

So, I await anon's analysis.....

Cee,

There is no relation between Hillary\'s Daughter being slimed and Monicagate none.

Hillary Clinton would have had every right to be angry at Monica... AND Bill. She was the victim. they were the ones engaged in an extramarrital affair. Not her.

Finally, I have gathered from your posts that you are a christian. When Hillary found out her husband had an affair she did the Christian thing. She forgave him!
If you are as strict a christian as I sense, I would assume you would be for that over divorce.

Any damage done to Monica was done by Bill and Monica also was wrong to have sex with a married man. David Shuster sliming the daughter of a women who happens to believe in her mom is wrong and has nothing to do with whether I will vote for HRC or not.

I don\'t like the current president but I wouldn\'t say: How can you say it is wrong to call the Bush twins drunks when Bus illegaly invaded a country. They are unrelated.

This is purely a POLITICAL calculation on HRC's part, anon....For you to try to say anthing different is naive....She brought up the theory it all was a right-wing conspiracy and when we all found out that, no Hillary, Bill had AGAIN taken advantage of a woman under his authority....SILENCE!

She had her own political aspirations AND KNEW she would go no where without Bill and his rolladex.....She is now insulted over a tasteless comment from a 4th rate TV reporter? Fine. She can be and I agree. However, the continued crying over "pimp" is a joke especially with the behavior her husband displayed.

Oh, has Hillary forgiven Mr. Shuster, anon?....I have not heard her say that yet....In fact today, she was still crying foul!

What a joke....This is a win/win.....MSNBC shows its true unprofessional colors AND Hillary shows her hypocrisy.....

Why forgive Bill, the adulterous sodomite 20 times over and not forgive little old David Shuster for one little slip of the tongue, anon?

Please....You are either naive OR a Clinton Co. supporter and apologist. Hillary did nothing Christian over Monicagate....

She should have come out and said, "I am sorry for accusing some fictitious right-wing conspiracy for my husbands disgusting behavior IN THE OVAL OFFICE."

I have never heard her mea culpa and I never will....Because she is a 2nd class slimy politican who wants more and more personal power.

The sanctity of marriage or respect for ALL women (including trailer park ladies, interns etc), be damned.

Why any democrat would be supporting HRC is beyond me....She and her husband are so low class and will do and say anything to win....

including race baiting......

Posted by: cee at February 11, 2008 5:45 PM

obama is no different.

I tell you why you forgive Bill and not Shuster. IT WAS HER DAUGHTER he slimed!
And forgiving Bill was the Christina thing to do. It seems you are against that.

Maybe you are not a real Christian at all but someone like the pharisees who take all the worst of religion and use it to justify being sanctmonious and judgemental?

So you are saying it is ok to call the Bush twins sluts because that pales in Comparision to What Bush has done to millions of displaced iraqis? Warped Cee, very warped.

cee, the slash marks in "anon's" posts are a dead giveaway of the ips spoofer/loser/patsy.

She is now refusing to debate on MSNBC but is still up for a debate on Fox? How can anyone think she will change anything in Washington?

Disgusted with Hillary (Sent Saturday, February 09, 2008 1:52 PM)

Well anon...we are actually expected to forgive all people of any sin against us because we were forgiven...so if Hillary has not forgiven Shuster after his apology, then she is wrong.....

Oh, and I expect a better argument in defense of the Clinton's behavior than bringing Bush into it all....come on now.....

This is about a leader in the oval office....HRC has overlooked the abuses of her husband towards many, many, many women only for political advantage....This is something you look for in a leader?

With Obama as the alternative....an honest guy (so far), willing to discuss prior cocaine use and never being sanctimonius himelf, till am amazed peopl are voting for HRC.

Cee, your not forgiving Bill for Monicagate is also by wrong by your own logic. that a Christian shuld forgive all.

As for bringing Bush into it, I was showing the logic you are using in this debate in a differnt context. e.g. an Attack is made on Bush\'s daughter\'s Bush has no reason to be angry about the attack because of things he has done wrong (displace the iraqi people)

That logic is exaclty the same as your own, e.g.: Clinton\'s Daughter is attacked. She is wrong to be upset about the attack because of her action\'s during monicagate (blaming the right for it and whatever else you think was wrong)

I use the Bush example to show you the same logic in a differnt context. I think both are in error.

I like Obama, I have not decided yet who I will vote for. you can make a fair case against Hillary, I am not debating that with you.

I am saying that your logic in this instance has been misapplied. Clinton has every right to be angry about what Shuster said regardless of ou feel about Clinton\'s pat actions. From my perspective I think Bush would be right to be angry if a commentator attacked his daughters, regardless of how I feel about his past actions.

Thanks, patsy!

Well anon, your accpetance of Hillary Clinton's explainations of political intrigue regarding the ill-advised sodomy in The Oval Office of "the people's house," is a sad and irrational conclusion.

Bill Clinton has asked for forgiveness of his actions and I would say I have forgiven him....However, Hillary's behavior is a sad reflection on her as a person. She has never retracted her accusations against some right-wing conspiracy and the actions of her and those around Clinton during the impeachment hearings and trial also was reprehsable and dangerous to our country as finalized in 9/11.....

For the good of the country, Bill Clinton should have resigned and given the keys to Al Gore....He did not. She, I am correct to understand by historical accounts, gave such advice.

Why?....Her own political future, anon.....

I am sorry....The country is more important than the political carrer of HRC.....She does not deserve to be president and this little dust-up with Shuster is a two-fer.....

It shows her hypocrisy over a little insult from a reporter....and secondly.....

It shows the unprofessionalism and low level of rehtoric coming from Olbermann and the rest of MSNBC.

As one who sees the current political atmosphere as putrid as it is because of Clinton Co. and the left-wing media....bravo!....let them tear eachother apart!

And now, she's going to FOX News!....Oh the irony for the kos kids!

Cee,

Well first off you are saying you honeslty know what HRC motivations were, How can you possibly know that that she just didn't love her husband? it is an absurd statement unless you are Psychic.

Also I would point out that had the right not concerned itself with what was essentially a private matter between married people, Clinton wouldn't have had to go through that absurb impeachment.

When Clinton bombed afghanistan trying to kill Bin Laden the right accused him of wagging the dog and instsited we focu on the impeachment as the important issue of our day. Blaming the left for the right's failures on 9-11 is wrong.

An Obamanation supporter with a Che Guevara flag on her wall.

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/02/11/video-campaign-office-decor-of-the-day/

I guess the "change" Obamanation wants is the execution of thousands of political prisoners like his buddy Che. When will Keith be sporting one of those flags on his show?

"Also I would point out that had the right not concerned itself with what was essentially a private matter between married people, Clinton wouldn't have had to go through that absurb impeachment."

###
This is a lie. Bill Clinton lied under oath and obstructed justice for a fellow citizen trying to obtain vindication....He used the power of his office to do this even allegedly sking his secretary and Monica to lie to the FBI!

You all have such poor memories! He even lost his law license and settled with Paula Jones! He basically admitted his guilt!

Oh my...not a private matter spuds! Oh, and guess who voted him guilty of the PUBLIC charges and is running for President of The United States of America currently.....

Senator and former American POW HERO and patriot, John McCain.....

So gents...keep apologizing for the adulterous sodomite and his power hungry "look the other way as other women are abused" pantsui wearing wife.....They need your vote now more than ever!

Clintonites....the 30% losers who just can't let go!.....Let go and embrace Obama...its time to move on.....Why the fetish with adulterous sodomites?

Shuster must have been Olbys boy moderator at the News Hole as it has not seen a update in 3 days. Shit is hitting the fan over there at MSNBC dont be surprised if Keith has it all over him tonight IF he even shows up.

Because of a blow job ?
Another example of the idiocy of the Christian right !

Posted by: at February 11, 2008 7:14 PM

It's called perjury moron. Find a dictionary and look it up. Another example of the idiocy of the left wing Nazi party.

Clinton (Bill) lied under oath in a Title IX Civil Rights violation case.

For years, the left (specifically NOW) has told us that even an ALLIGATION of impropriety calls for a full-scale investigation into the merits of the case. Clarence Thomas was crusified because he (allegedly) told a dirty joke! And in that case, the accuser still followed Thomas from job to job!

Here, we had a credible victim, with credible witnesses in a literal federal case/investigation.

He lied.

This is why NOW has ZERO credibility today.

Shuster must have been Olbys boy moderator at the News Hole as it has not seen a update in 3 days. Shit is hitting the fan over there at MSNBC dont be surprised if Keith has it all over him tonight IF he even shows up.

Posted by: Billy Hill at February 11, 2008 7:22 PM

I'm wondering when MSNBC will make David Shuster jump into a volcano or something.

He did NOTHING that warrants this sort of opprobrium.

Such logic and rational judgement does not apply when someone likes the adulterous sodomite, Bill Clinton......His behavior was "private," despite who it was with (an intern under his charge), where it was (in the oval office of The White House) and how it was important to an ongoing law suit brought about by one of our fellow citizens....Paula Jones.......

Nope....it was only sodomy.....a blow job....no need to worry!

Oh the hypocrisy. Oh the spinning. Oh the irrational behavior because of partisanship......

Sorry....Clinton screwed up, Hillary looked the other way, and our nation was paralyzed and distracted for almost two years because of them and their refusal to do what would have been best for their country.....a period of time that lead to the worst terrorist attack on American soil.....

Oh my...HuffPo does supply such good fodder....

Fox News, Obama Bound By Brotherly Love

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/blog/1380000138/post/370021637.html

###
Oh my! What will the radical leftist conspiracy paranoids do with this connection!

FOX News is EEEEEEvil!....How can Obama even think of being this close to them!

Perhaps Clinton Co. can take advantage of this one!

Quick....there isn't too much time left!

This is another example Cee, Of your hatred of The Clintons. For a man who calls himself a christian you have an obscene amount of it. What I hope is that you will not be a hypocrite and will join me in condeming the Sodomite Newt Gingrich who led the fight against Clinton while having an extramarrital affair. More examples of the hypocrisy of the right.

Bill got what he should have gotten which was disbarred from practicing law in Arkansas. Hillary got what she deserved as the victim which was nothing. And in both cases they never endangered this nation the way Bush has (if ever anyone should be impeached)

Basically Cee, you strike me as a very judgemental man. You are unable to forgive Bill For adultruy while turing a blind eye to the countless people mrdered by this presidency. The adultry commited by the man leading the impeachment charge against the president while commiting adultar at the same time.

I have never heard you condem Rudy whose numerous extra marrtial affairs are the stuff of legen. yet you would have vorted for probably either the sodomite Rudy or the Sodomite Newt. Not to mention the twice married Sodomite John Mccain who cheated on his first wife.

Yet you continue to support this Evil Cee.
It seems your hatred will consume you and continue to expose the hypocrisy of the right.

Sorry Cee,

the right brought the nation to a standstill while they prosecuted a private affair between a man and a women. The accused the president of wagging the dog when he was doing his duty and protecting the nation. 9-11 happend on Bush\'s watch he was warned by Clinton and did nothing. The right can try to spin it\'s way out of trouble all the want but it was they who made any mistakes leading to 9-11. Not the former president.

I'm wondering when MSNBC will make David Shuster jump into a volcano or something.

He did NOTHING that warrants this sort of opprobrium.
Posted by: Cecelia at February 11, 2008 7:39 PM

I agree, Cecelia, except I would add if John Gibson were the one to have used Shuster's words in a similar situation, Shuster would be pushing Gibson into the volcano. (IMO)

John vs the Volcano? Wasn't Tom Hanks in that?

Please anons, show me where I said I hated anyone....I don't hate these people, I reject their political cynicism and attitude that they are above the law....a law that allows someone like Paula Jones a FAIR and COMPLETE examination of evidence and witnesses without the illegal interference of The President of The United States of America.

I do not hate them....I pity them and those who choose to follow them simply because of some silly political affection or loyalty.

We are a nation of laws and when the chief executive does not obey, there should be consequences.....he lied under oath AND obstructed justice.....many jurors in The Senate found him guilty....they all should have because the evidence was clear.

Jury nullification is always a possibility and no different here as it was with any other trial.

So anons....you can take your ad hominem attacks against me and "the right," and George Bush and try again....the facts remain.....Bill Clinton (who I humorously call an adulterous sodomite to annoy people like you), broke the law and lied....it was not a private affair.

And what Hillary did after in not comoing before the nation and correcting her absurd accusations in excusing her husbands lying and cheating reflects on her as a person....a person with her eye on the prize....her own polititcal aspirations.....

Scary, cynical and not what I look for in a leader of this great country.

Again, the hardcore Clinton Co. supporters cannot bring themselves to face the truth....that is fine....no hatred from me in regard to that either....just pity.

Especially as Clinton Co. loses its grip on the power structure that is the left's ruling class....oh how they will try to hang on....what will they do?....what will they say?....how will they manipulate?....What will they do to poor, idealistic Obama....the first serious African American candidate for president?

He, he, he....I love to see the slimy politcos squirm! Again, I love them as I am commanded to do and would bandage their wounds on the side of the road to Samaria if I found them there....but as the powerful anti-American leftist elite....the powerful should fall when they are corrupt and unjust!

Oh and when Rudy, McCain and Newt break the law in connection to their infidelities, get back to me.....I will be glad to condemn them as well....but I do follow the speck/log advice of Christ when it comes to sin in others....

But when hypocritical elitist leftists break the law and try to move on.....sorry....I like honesty too much to allow people to try to change the facts.....lying is not tolerated without a rebuttal....

And saying what Clinton did was a private matter is a lie.

Address that and I will take you seriously.

I can\'t beleive you have the audacity to accuse me of an ad hominem attack. that is ALLL YOU DO! my god! sodmite Clinton thi,s Sodimite clinton that! I just returned the favor and suddenly I am making an Ad hominem attack? you are either blind to your own hypocrisy or deranged.

\"slimy politcos squirm\"

More ad hominem attacks.

I notice also that you don\'t refer to Rudy or McCain or Newt as adultourous Sodomites!

Whether you are cheating on your spouse has nothing to do with legality so I would appricate if you stuck to the terminology and addressed those evil sodimmites. Or when ou condmen Bush and Chen for their law breaking then I will take you seriously otherwise you are nothing but another example of the hypocrital right.

The Clintons ARE pimping their homely offspring (see the article "21-Year-Old Wisconsin Super Delegate Gets Face Time With Former First Daughter" at http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4273078&page=1). However, in the finest Stalinist tradition, the Clintonistas attack the messenger and cannibalize one of their own. The rest of the pack dogs bark in unison. Papa Joe would be proud.

Couldn't happen to a bigger bunch of a-holes.

I have seen no indictments from a court of law or passed articles of impeachment from The US House of Representatives with Bush or Cheney's names on them so I find no obligation to entertain your illogical opinion that these fine leaders have broken any law....

Clinton on the other hand does have his name on overwhelmingly bipartisan supported articles of impeachment and that gives me license to examine him as a fellow citizen just like the shoplifter down the street...

If he had done the right thing and resigned, being truly repentant about lying under oath and obstructing Paula Jones' justice, I would be singing another tune.....who knows, I may have even donated to his museum and massage parlor (oops, sorry.....a unnecessary hit that may hurt somebody's feelings)

But he did not, and to this day he, Hillary and his supporters try to say he was not wrong in using the oval office as his personal pleasure dome and then, when caught, lie about it in front of a judge in a LEGAL PROCEEDING!

Got it? I back up my attacks with facts and debatable opinion....hence they are not ad hominem....You bring my religion, Bush, Cheney, Rudy etc in as red herrings to distract from the facts....even claiming I hate people without proof of such blather.....

Please go to another site if you are going to debate like this....don't waste my time!

Thanks, patsy!

patsy, haven't you learned not to use apostrophe key? It gives you away.

Clinton got the punishment he deserved, he was banned from practicing law in Arkansas. the punishment fit the crime. The sodomite newt Gingrich was wrong to go after Clinton, wasting the nation\'s time on a non issue.

As for the Bush administration numerous documents exists and studies have been done documneting the lies the president did to lead us into to war. I\'m sorry if you can\'t face that fact. the former Cokehead and drunk was a failure at Business, in life and at the presidency.

Now to say you don\'t do ad hominem is a lie. you used many an ad hominem attack against the clinton\'s and used many against the left in general. you do not use facts and reason to back up your debate.

For example you claim to know the mind of Hillary Clinton pretending you are a psychic.

As for claiming you hate the clintons do you call people you like slimy politicos? Answer that question and maybe i will think ou are something other than a loon.

It is obvious you are full of hatred and anger and are unable to see your own hypocrisy.

I\'m sorry to defeat all of your arguments so handily Cee, but if you don\'t want that to en you are going to have to bring logic into the debate.

Please go to another site if you are going to debate like this....don't waste my time!

Posted by: cee at February 11, 2008 8:53 PM

cee, patsy/dark power is playing you like a fiddle and you're letting him.

I agree, Cecelia, except I would add if John Gibson were the one to have used Shuster's words in a similar situation, Shuster would be pushing Gibson into the volcano. (IMO)

Posted by: Sharon at February 11, 2008 8:10 PM

Yeah, it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, for sure, Sharon...

Cee: "Sorry...Clinton screwed up, Hillary looked the other way, and our nation was paralized and distracted for almost two years because of them and their refusal to do what would have been best for their country."

Just imagine, ..... maybe we could have made that BRILLIANT move of invading Iraq several years sooner!

The fact is that the 'distraction' was intentional. If you can't have your party in the Oval Office, distract the occupant enough so that they can't do their job.

The truth is that 'Distraction' was what Whitewater was really all about...and when that didn't work, the republicans turned to Monica.

What is so interesting in Mike's and anon's response....No mention of a little ol' lady named Paula Jones.....

Her lawsuit was the action that the adulterous sodomite had to face....EVEN BEFORE HIS AFFIR WITH MONICA, he tried to use his office to avoid facing the sexual harrassment charges and the courts laughed at him....

Ms. Jones deserved, by rule of law, factual discovery and untainted witnesses. It is a fact that the crimes of Bill....obstructing justice and lying under oath, were intended to thwart the process.

As advocates of "law and order," as well as the rights of women not be be sexually abused by their superiors...I expect better from Bill and Hillary, don't you Mike and anon?

I call that attitude...the idea that we talk about it but do not apply it to our own lives....HYPOCRISY.

So please, try to quiet your anger and logically reply....The impeachment and trial were about real legal issues and laws that the adulterous sodomite potentially broke as President.....His confidant and now Presidential candidate also has never addressed these important issues as well as her frivilous and never proved claim that the affair allegations were part of a right-wing consiracy.....

Was Monica a right-wing spy sent in to tempt ol BJ Clinton, Mike?

HRC was later proved wrong by her own husband's admission to the affair....a tawdry one with a very young charge IN THE OVAL OFFICE!

Monica even loved him! She spoke of her infatuation with friends....and how did ol. Bill treat her.....well it does have a relation to "pimp," and it is a sad way to treat another human being.

No distraction there, eh Mike?....Bill Clinton was not responsible for making this little mistake into one of the biggest distractions of all time?

You are more pathetic than the HRC supporter if you believe that one!

Oh and one more gut check.....How would you look at Bill Clinton if you were Monica's father, gents?.....Using the poor girl to relieve some sexual tension at work?....A very simple question.

Once again, the left cannot debate logically or honestly....lost again. Keep trying losers.

The truth is that 'Distraction' was what Whitewater was really all about...and when that didn't work, the republicans turned to Monica.

Posted by: Mike at February 12, 2008 3:06 AM

This is one hard core demopologist.

Cee, the post from you that I responded to did not mention Paula Jones.....so why would you accuse me of debating 'dishonestly' for leaving her out of my response?

That said, I am not a Clinton defender and do not particularly like either Clinton. However, I DO believe both Whitewater and the subsequent Monica investigation was intended to be a distraction so that he could not advance as much of his agenda.

The entire episode was fundamental dishonesty from the right wing, beginning with Whitewater, and evolving into the Lewinsky affair. ... And guess what Cee, the nation as a whole agreed with me on that. Polls consistantly showed that the American People wanted the matter dropped while it was happening.

From a moral, ethical, or a practical standpoint, I rate Clinton's personal transgressions on a far lower level than those of Bush even though I was as disgusted as anyone.

As for the Paula Jones matter, you and I both know that the impeachment was never about that. It was about Monica. It was also a matter that preceded his presidency, just as GWB's drunk driving offenses preceded his.

Just as it is not your place to decide who is patriotic, it is not your place to decide who is debating "honestly" or "logically" either.

When you learn how to stop your thinly disguised insults and character assasinations of your ideological opponents, only THEN we can have and 'honest' and 'logical' debat.

Mike, I can rate a person's honesty in their post in how they either avoid or try to change facts. Impeachment and the trial were over two charges:

Lying under oath
Obstruction of justice

When....while Clinton was president.
Over what....The Paula Jones civil lawsuit.

You stated, "As for the Paula Jones matter, you and I both know that the impeachment was never about that. It was about Monica. It was also a matter that preceded his presidency, just as GWB's drunk driving offenses preceded his."

No jive your claim to the facts I listed above.

So, you are being intellectually dishonest. Now, if you were to say to me lying and obstructing justice in a civil lawsuit does not rise to the level the founders meant for removal for office then nullification was justified....you did not....you simply try to change the facts.

So Mike. you attempt at trying to prove my conclusion wrong failed. The rationalizations you displayed, along with anon, are what the 30-35% Clinton supporters use to pull the lever for ol Hill.....That is their choice, and your's.

It is amusing that the same people who claim illegality on the part of Bush rationalize away the real and proven illegality of Clinton.

And the real funny item in all of this is some want another 4 years of Clinton's dishonesty and distraction. They are and always will be polarizing figures and not achieve mass support beyond what Clinton always pulled in the elections (a plurality).

So bye bye HRC, and good ridance...although I know she would have been a much easier candidate to beat than Obama will be.....

Novemeber is a VERY, VERY long way away.

So now Hillary is saying that Fox is much more balanced and fair to her than MSNBC. So Olbermann has pimped, whored, and otherwise pandered to what her perceives as his core audience and for what? For Hillary to bitch-slap him for his efforts on the part of the Democratic party. The irony is immense isn't it?

Cee: "Mike, I can rate a person's honesty in their post and how they try to change facts."

Once again, you avoided the question of why you expected me to bring up Paula Jones when you had not mentioned her in the post I responded to......then you called that 'dishonest'.

Ad Hominen must be your middle name, yet you bristle with indignation when others have responded with names like "Phara-see" and the like.

You feel free to rail about other's lack of patriotism simply because they disagree with you about what is best for America, the world, and Iraq.....but then react as if you've been unfarily slimed when someone responds accordingly.

Whenever you next feel that uncontrollable urge to "rate" and lash out at someone for being "un-American", "unpatriotic", or "dishonest" because they disagree with you, I suggest you take a look in your own mirror before preceding.

And try to remember that your own hero, John McCain, does not stoop to those kind of ad hominem attacks himself, just has he has publicly stood firm on the issue of torture, ..... and that is why I respect that man so much, even as I disagree with much of what he believes.

If the democrats are dumb enough to have HRC as their nominee, then fine. But it will be at the expense of a much superior candidate and because of race baiting, backroom deals and manipulation.....

It will be wonderful to frame such a nominee as the person who killed the candidacy of hope, optimism and personality.....and the first serious candidate African-American for president.....

People vote mostly on feelings...do I like the person....

HRC has some of the highest negatives ever!

So like I said....let's wait and see if I am right again....

Remember my other prediction back in 11/06?....Iraq will continue exactly like the President wants and the troops will be there strong, fighting for freedom and democracy, until 2009......

The left predicted (and promised) pull-out by spring of 2008.......

Hello?....Who was right fool anon?

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