In that Media Matters Minute, Fat Ass blamed Bush and Bolton for 9/11, called Chris Wallace "naive" because "you're 60," and "Toccata and Fugue in D Minor" was knocked off (faded out entirely) for the Worst. Ooh, that means it's really serious.

...and then it was brought back up at the end. All the while, the snark, and the lies that Johnny noted above, continued intermittently.

Hey, I gotta question.

With all this messianic fervor being generated by Obama, isn’t his campaign coming remarkably close to being nullified under SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE laws?

Ah, where’s Madeline Murray O’Hare when you need her.

Maddy Babes would let any of that crap go by…

On another note…anyone see this?

UNITED FLIGHT CANCELED AFTER UPSET PILOT REFUSES TO FLY.
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-06-20-upset-united-pilot_N.htm

I wonder if he’s related to bathtub boy?

Cusack says he's a fan of the show
Another Olby moron in tow
Misinformed moonbats
Wearing twin ass hats
The two experts on war don't you know?

Did BOR's name come up in the Cusack interview?

Cusack fellated Olby with the comment: " O'Reilly? You bash his head in every night. What more is there to say? Where does one begin?"
I smiled with the satisfaction that OW bashes Fat Ass's head nightly.
Or do we bash Fat Heads ass?

I knew as soon as Olby said that O'Reilly has anchored on primary nights that Johnny would nail him in the recap. I mean, that's not even a good lie. Krazy Legs must be off his game tonight.

Two week in a row; two weeks of O'Reilly beating olby every night. I guess we won't be seeing that ad, falsely asserting, that, "last week fat ass beat O'Reilly", anymore. 2 million viewesr? Over how many shows, olby?

Keith claimed that the page six story written by Paula Froelich yesterday and the story on page six that will appear tomorrow is vile, low and a cheap shot at him. He might be right but Keith brings this stuff on himself.

For years now Keith has been has been using his show to launch deep personal attacks on people he just disagrees with.

No, not people that have crossed him in the past but people that just have different political views then his.

His show is hateful and it’s all coming back at him.
I’m not sure why anybody would want to watch is show, the man is bitter and mean. Do some of the people Keith speaks out against deserve some hatred their way?
Perhaps, but giving a loon a one hour show so he can expose the hatred in his mind to a national audience, is an absurd circus.

John Cusack “enjoys Keith’s show?”
The I guess John enjoys witch hunts the likes of McCarthyism, enjoys no descending view points, enjoys hate mongering, enjoys discriminating against females and older citizens and enjoys a man “who is as infantile as he is narcissistic”

It’s not surprising these movie stars are out of touch with the American people.

Two week in a row; two weeks of O'Reilly beating olby every night. I guess we won't be seeing that ad, falsely asserting, that, "last week fat ass beat O'Reilly", anymore. 2 million viewesr? Over how many shows, olby?

You're right on the money, Joe. And dcmeyer, he got that number in total audience over two nights and in the demo in four to six nights. BOR gets that in ONE night and he doesn't lie about it.

GIBSON: The Obama team is going back to some of the old complaints about the war and the war on terror...that the left has been articulating for a long time now, and not really coming up with anything new.

BOLTON: Yeah I think honestly that's an optimistic view of it, that it will simply be a replay of the Clinton administration. It will simply have more embassy bombings, more bombings of our warships like the Cole, more World Trade Center attacks. That would be the best outcome from that perspective.

Even if we leave the 1993 WTC attack out of this equation…can someone grab Keith by the hand (you may use gloves) and walk him to the history books and point out who was in charge when the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed….then who was at the helm when the USS Cole was attacked…

If the written text is too much of a bother, then I’m sure NBC has some of this stuff on tape.

It never ceases to amaze me how someone who thinks he is such a towering intellect and above the rest of us great unwashed…proves pretty much on a daily basis…(I guess giving him points for consistency) what a complete and utter dolt he is.

I really think the guy just has some kind of mental problem. Has anyone ever asked him if he was exposed to large doses of gamma radation as a child? Did Stan Lee get his inspiration for the Hulk from Old Hot Head's special comments?? I mean is there no one better on TV or the movies that does a bettter impression of Buce Banner tyuring into the Hulk then old hot head? I mean the the way he gets all red faced the vains pooping out his forehead, the pure blind radge and hate that he seems to ingulf him during one of his SC tirades would make any director consider him for the part of the Hulk? RIgh, I guess he missed he true calling him life...baseball cards? are we sure he is not a closeted comic book fan?

Only one problem jsut like other certain apsects of old hot heads "private" life, he just comes up a liltte short and just can quit get the job done. So he become more frustrated and more frustrated until he finally snaps and they have to place in the mental ward.

I really think the guy just has some kind of mental problem. Has anyone ever asked him if he was exposed to large doses of gamma radation as a child? Did Stan Lee get his inspiration for the Hulk from Old Hot Head's special comments?? I mean is there no one better on TV or the movies that does a bettter impression of Buce Banner tyuring into the Hulk then old hot head? I mean the the way he gets all red faced the vains pooping out his forehead, the pure blind radge and hate that he seems to ingulf him during one of his SC tirades would make any director consider him for the part of the Hulk? RIgh, I guess he missed he true calling him life...baseball cards? are we sure he is not a closeted comic book fan?

Only one problem jsut like other certain apsects of old hot heads "private" life, he just comes up a liltte short and just can quit get the job done. So he become more frustrated and more frustrated until he finally snaps and they have to place in the mental ward.

You are correct Mike. Also BOR gave probably the most important numbers on the Thursday night show, advertising dollars. FOX gets 47% compared to CNN getting 40% and MSLSD getting only 13%.

NBC would never be so stupid to make old hot head MTP mod. He is right he does not have the experince or brain capitcity to take on such a role. I mean can picture every Sunday w/ him and his motley crue of left wing ass kissing pundents..conservatives not need apply for the pannel.

Here is the Page 6 item on Olbermann, it's pretty funny how they keep reminding everyone that his girlfirend is only 24, I'm sure those old Hillary hags who screamed sexism like hearing that:

THERE'S good news and bad news for Keith ("Crazy Legs") Olbermann regarding the ailment that makes his lower limbs shake uncontrollably. There's a drug that can control the symptoms of Wittmaack-Ekbom's syndrome, which mostly afflicts women - but the MSNBC loudmouth's girlfriend, Katy Tur, might flip out at its side effects.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06212008/gossip/pagesix/risky_rx_for_keith_twitches_116449.htm

By the way, in EVERY interview this guy has done, he has told us about every friggin' health problems he's every had. So for him to say he had RSL since the 90's is pure bunk! It is funny seing the NYPost get under his skin though, hmmm, kind of like the way he thinks he's getting under O'Reilly's skin. I hope they do a story a week until he snaps. Man, didn't Lloyd Grove have all the KarmaBites emails, about 100 or so. If only they'd start releasing them...

The KOS KIDZ give the NYPost some ideas for furture headlines (an example):

Headline: Keith Olbermann is a pedophile:
Come on, now. The guy reads Harry Potter, dates a younger woman, and watches Family Guy. How could he not have photoshopped pictures of a naked Dakota Fanning as his screensaver?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/21/9108/91850/373/539656

I think the "You're 60" comment about Chris Wallace was especially appalling. It shows once again how Keith discriminates against everyone who is not like him.

doesnt keith appear to be a cleft pallette when has that goofy smirk?

he is one of the few people d wish a birth defect on

or is it pallate? hmmmm

how the hell do spell pallette wait pallate? whatever how bout hairlip

The DUmmy moonbats are beside themselves with anger because B. Hussein Obama is reversing his position (shocker!) and plans to support FISA. They are finding out that Obamessiah is a two-faced lying bum who cares about his political ambitions and nothing more. Wake up, libnuts. Your hero is a zero.

"The DUmmy moonbats are beside themselves with anger because B. Hussein Obama is reversing his position (shocker) and plans to support FISA. They are finding out that Olamessiah is a two-faced lying bum who cares about his political ambitions and nothing more. Wake up, libnuts. Your hero is a zero."

Philly, I'm sure that if you keep on calling them and their "hero" names they will come around eventually. If that doesn't work, maybe you could step up your insult per sentence rate a little bit more. It could be that your current rate of around two insults per sentence just isn't enough to convince them.

Olbermann and Obamanation are a lot a like. Neither one has actually achieved anything in life. Both Obamanation and Olbermann are nothing more than creations of the left wing hate machine. Obamanation has used his race to get where he is now. Obama was not qualified to become head of the Harvard Law review so Harvard turned the qualifications into a rigged popularity contest. Keith has used his artful way of describing homeruns to whip up mindless left wing sewer into frenzy.

Well, Mike, moonbats do not display the ability to use logic for decision-making, otherwise they would plainly understand that Obama is a fraud and a liar. They merely follow their Obamessiah blindly. For this stupid behavior, they deserve to be treated as simpletons. They insult their own intelligence.

"olbermann and Obamanation are a lot alike. Neither one has actually achieved anything in life."

Might I suggest that you lay out your own personal accomplishments for us so we might have better insight of what your definition of one's having "achieved anything in life" might be?

Philly, it is painfully obvious that you regard anyone's intelligence that doesn't agree with you as inferior to your own, ..... but it might help you to understand that those who tend to deride the intellect of others usually prove to be the the ones most lacking in intellect themselves.

In addition, the next time you are tempted to dismiss Obama supporters as mere "simpletons", it might behoove you to take note of the FACT that Obama's main demographic has been shown time and time again to include more of America's smartest and most educated people than any other candidate.

> those who tend to deride the intellect of others usually prove to be the the ones most lacking in intellect themselves.

Let's see... airhead, boob, brainless, bozo, dimwitted, dumb, dumbass, fathead, fool, idiot, jackass, moron, nitwit, stupid...

Just a few of the terms (culled from the olbersaurus) that Keith has used on others. Obviously you believe that means he is "most lacking in intellect", which makes one wonder why you continue to defend him.

J$: "lets see... airhead, boob, brainless, bozo, dimwitted, dumb, dumbass, fathead, fool, idiot, jackass, moron, nitwit, stupid....Just a few of the terms (rom the Olbersaurus) that Keith has used on others."
--------------------------------------------------
Johnny, you seemed to have missed out on the fact that this conversation was entirely about Barrack Obama, and NOT Keith Olbermann.

J$: "which makes one wonder why you continue to defend him"

See above!

> this conversation was entirely about Barrack Obama

So what? That means your little homily applies to everyone else in the world, but not to Keith Olbermann? If you believe that, you just might be an Olbypologist.

J$: So what?

Well gee Johnny, if you don't understand context any better than that, it makes one wonder why you are anyone's chief critic?
----------------------------------------------------------
J$: "That means your little homily applies to everyone else in the world, but not to Keith Olbermann?

And where exactly did I say that Mr. Greenback? What part of 'we were discussing Barack Obama, and not Keith Olbermann' is it that you don't understand?
------------------------------------------------------------
J$: "If you believe that, you might be an Olbypologist."

Johnny, I know it just pains you to no end that I don't really care to discuss the personal shortcomings of one Keith Olbermann, but once again, .....See above!

".. but it might help you to understand that those who tend to deride the intellect of others usually prove to be the the ones most lacking in intellect themselves."
Do you have a source for that statement or is this just another one of your projections?

By MikeH on June 22, 2008 8:41 PM

"In addition, the next time you are tempted to dismiss Obama supporters as mere "simpletons", it might behoove you to take note of the FACT that Obama's main demographic has been shown time and time again to include more of America's smartest and most educated people than any other candidate. "

Mike, you may be right about supporters of the Obamessiah, but there is still one unresolved problem. Whenever I confront any of brilliant people with a couple of direct questions, to make sure that all of the things that they say add up, we always get to the moment where they answer me with "F**k off!" Happens every time. Please do not forget that you are one of those people.

In other words my shutout seems to be never ending.

Peace, Mike!

Rico, if you can document where I EVER told you to "F**k off!" in any way, I think it's time for you to document it.

That said, you have been known to ask a few questions that were so incredibly broad, off the point, and decidedly stupid, that no intelligent person would think you actually expected a serious response.

Therefore, I have to conclude that you must be confusing "F**K off!" with "you can't possibly be serious in asking such an incredibly dumb question!"

Trust me on this one Rico.....you're no Tim Russart!

Tim Russart!

Who's he?

Is the orange faced hack still defending and spinning obamas latest monumental flip-flop regarding public financing?

My local radio station played a tape of obama on MTP in Feb.

I haven't laughed so hard in years! Rest in peace, Tim. You nailed obama to the wall, big time!

Johnny, you seemed to have missed out on the fact that this conversation was entirely about Barrack Obama, and NOT Keith Olbermann.

by mikeh

Must be that olbyloon logic.

OS: "Must be that olbyloon logic."......Nope, just the fact jack.

OS: "I haven't laughed so hard in years!"......I wonder how hard you'll be laughing when KO is calling him 'president Obama' while Hannity is calling him 'Mr. Obama'?

By MikeH on June 22, 2008 12:27 PM

"The DUmmy moonbats are beside themselves with anger because B. Hussein Obama is reversing his position (shocker) and plans to support FISA. They are finding out that Olamessiah is a two-faced lying bum who cares about his political ambitions and nothing more. Wake up, libnuts. Your hero is a zero."

Philly, I'm sure that if you keep on calling them and their "hero" names they will come around eventually. If that doesn't work, maybe you could step up your insult per sentence rate a little bit more. It could be that your current rate of around two insults per sentence just isn't enough to convince them.

Well, Mike, I imagine you're re-evaluating your position too, are you not?

As I remember, you were a McCain admirer and certainly had no trouble admitting that he is the more experienced leader than Obama. The problem you articulated was that McCain had reversed himself on certain issues in the typical old cynical politician way of doing things. On the other hand, Obama was different! It was not going to be business as usual with Obama. One of the hallmarks you used to point this out was Obama's championing of using public money to finance campaigns.

Oh, dear...now Mr. Change has "changed" his mind, and not only that...he's using the same rationale that conservatives used when arguing against McCain-Feingold.

Looks like it's going to business as usual, all the way around. Perhaps you can now find it in your heart to go back to the more experienced maverick that you admired for so many years...

Cecelia making something else up: "One of the hallmarks you used to point this out was Obama's championing of using public money to finance campaigns."

Thats absolute BULL Cecelia, I never once discussed Obama's use of public financing. I'll file that one along with your equally false accusation that I championed global warming.

That said, I have expressed respect for McCain but that doesn't mean I want to see him continue to lead America down the path of self destruction the way he seems determined to do.

but it might help you to understand that those who tend to deride the intellect of others usually prove to be the the ones most lacking in intellect themselves.

by mikeh

"lets see... airhead, boob, brainless, bozo, dimwitted, dumb, dumbass, fathead, fool, idiot, jackass, moron, nitwit, stupid....Just a few of the terms (rom the Olbersaurus) that Keith has used on others."

by J$

Just the facts, mikeh. LOL!

Whatever you do, don't touch obamas latest monumental flip flop!

"Whatever you do, don't touch obamas latest monumental flip flop!"

OK, I won't, except to disagree with your assertion that it is particularly "monumental".

It's been put in your face at least 3 times by other posters and you haven't come up with a single defense or a single criticism. Shocker!

"It's been put in your face at least 3 times by other posters and you haven't come up with a single defense or a single criticism. Shocker!"

Oh, how wise of you to notice, oh bright one. Where is it written that I or anyone else has to either support or criticize every decision made by any politician?

I'm sorry he made the mistake of saying otherwise earlier, but I think he is making the correct move now under the circumstances.

Happy now?

By MikeH on June 23, 2008 12:10 AM

'Therefore, I have to conclude that you must be confusing "F**K off!" with "you can't possibly be serious in asking such an incredibly dumb question!"'

Same thing, Mike! It's just your way of saying "F**k off!" with your phony nuance.

"Same thing, Mike! It's just your way of saying "F**k off!" with your phony nuance."

Not at all Rico. It's just your way of misinterpreting and misunderstanding everything you hear with your phony black vs white and us vs them worldview.

"I'll debate John McCain any time, any place!" bho

A few months later......

"I'll only debate him on July 4th!" bho

I'm sorry he made the mistake

by mikeh

Hence, the term apologist.

"Hence, the term apologist."

Whatever you say jack. The reality is that we have two choices here, and both of them have been known to change a position or two, much like pretty much every candidate who has ever lived has done.

So exactly who does that leave YOU to not "apologize" for?

You might just as well get used to saying "President Obama".

McCain will eat obama alive in the debates if obama ever grows balls. Maybe he can borrow mrs. o's.

Add another change of mind by SNOBamessiah.....he didn't want to appear as "playing President,"

Obama Campaign Drops Faux Presidential Seal

http://adage.com/campaigntrail/post?article_id=127944

###
That new seal was all the rage, uh? I really liked the change in motto....

VERO POSSUMUS!

By the way....like I called it months ago.....The biggest flaw of SNOBamessiah is why I call him what I call him.....

he is BLINDLY arrogant.

VERO POSSUMUS!

The understatement of the day, by who else...MikeH.....

"and both of them have been known to change a position or two, much like pretty much every candidate who has ever lived has done."

Yeah...right.....A position of TWO?.....

"Obama told us his campaign wasn’t going to be about the money — after all, that was politics as usual. He was going to 'aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election.' Later, he expanded on that to say, 'I will sit down with John McCain and make sure that we have a system that works for everybody.'

"Well, McCain is still waiting for that sit-down. Turns out, Obama is all about the money. Now that he can raise more on his own than the government could have offered him — and probably more than McCain can raise — Obama has changed his mind (assuming it was ever made up), and is hoping the voters will not hold it against him.

"Politics, man — you do what you gotta do.

"You run against NAFTA in the Ohio primary, calling the bill 'devastating' and 'a big mistake.' That’s where the votes are . . . or were. Now that he is looking beyond the mid-west, he’s all about free trade. Yeah, well, the rhetoric may have gotten a little 'overheated' back there in Ohio, he says passively, but he’s certainly no protectionist. Perish the thought.

"Then, there is the post-racial stuff. That little sequestered place in our hearts quivered with the hope that with this candidate, in this election, we might move beyond identity politics. And Obama said as much, himself, when he was asked on 60 Minutes if his race was going to be a handicap in the election.

"'No . . . ' he said. 'If I don’t win this race it will be because of other factors . . . [because] I have not shown to the American people a vision for where the country needs to go that they can embrace.' Apparently, the American people are more stupid now than they were when he spoke those words. And his enemies will inevitably try to exploit that stupidity.

"'We know what kind of campaign they’re going to run,' Obama said in a recent speech. 'They’re going to try to make you afraid. . . . They’re going to try to make you afraid of me. 'He's young and inexperienced and he’s got a funny name. And did I mention he's black?''

"Well, you go with what works. When an aide once asked Huey Long how he was going to explain to a group of important constituents why the 'Kingfish' had gone back on a campaign promise, Long said, simply, 'F*** 'em. Tell 'em I lied.'

"This probably wouldn’t work for Obama. But maybe his apologists — those people who still believe in change, hope, and a new kind of politics — could try out a variation on Huey’s classic. How about, 'F*** 'em. Tell 'em I was being audacious.'"

http://tinyurl.com/6m2wgu

###

VERO POSSUMUS!

And now Mr. Cee, would you like a comprehensive run-down of all the position changes McCain is guilty?

That said, we'll have to actually elect him to find out if he is still the "Maverick" he used to be - or - is he the staunch conservative he's tried to appear to be as of late?

Unfortunately, we risk the farm in finding out....just like the chameleon GW Bush turned out to be in 2000 after running as one thing, and then becoming something else entirely once elected.

OS: "McCain will eat Obama alive in the debates if Obama ever grows balls"

In your eyes only....because you would see and hear only what you wished to see and hear.

Cee: "You run against NAFTA in the Ohio primary, calling the bill 'devastating' and a 'big mistake'. Thats where the votes are .. or were. Now that he's looking beyond the mid-west, he's all about free trade."

Only if you consider NAFTA, in the flawed form in which it was negotiated, as the defining embodiment of what "free trade" should be......I don't, and I don't think Obama does either.

But dear MikeH....SNOBamessiah is running on CHANGE!....He is supposed to be a different politician....not like McCain and those others in Washington!

I have no problem with McCain changing his position on....

The Bush Tax cuts....I like my taxes low, especially when I am paying more for food and energy!

The off shore drilling for oil....I want my country to be energy independent from The Middle East as new technologies are developed for the future. Plus, the threat of more supply will lower the speculation on the commodity and there would be price resuctions sooner rather than later.

These two ISSUE changes are because of reality.....

Raising taxes during a recession is stupid.

Oil prices at $140/barrel will be impacted by increased supply...simple economics.

So lets look again, at the change candidate....

He promised to sit down and aggressively work out public financing with the republican candidate.....he did not....he broke a promise regarding financing his campaign....to make it FAIR.....Why?

He promised to be above racial politics....He is now accusing "them" (whoever they are) of mentioning that he's a black guy....

MikeH....Please tell me who SNOBamessiah is talking about...who is THEY?....Reference an instance of this....I will assure you...you will not find a prominent Republican behind it....instead you will find DEMOCRATS.

Cee: "But dear MikeH....SNOBmessiah is running on CHANGE!"....and.....""he broke a promise regarding financing his campaign....to make it fair....Why?"

-----The answer is "to make it fair", as you just put it yourself, ole buddy-----.

You see Cee, elections have consequences, and so do election TACTICS. By smearing John Kerry four years ago with the shamefull "swiftboat", your side is now finding out that playing in the gutter has consequences. Obama is simply not going to allow himself to be defined by ehtically bankrupt 527s the way Kerry had no choice but to allow happen to him.

I would call that but one example of "CHANGE".

MikeH, sorry, you are not getting away with the NAFTA nonspecific propaganda.....SNOBamessiah has backed away from his previous hatred of NAFTA.....

"In February, as the campaign moved into the Rust Belt, both candidates [Obama and Clinton] vowed to invoke a six-month opt-out clause ('as a hammer,' in Obama's words) to pressure Canada and Mexico to make concessions.

"Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper called that threat a mistake, and other leaders abroad expressed worries about their trade deals. Leading House Democrats, including Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel, distanced themselves from the candidates.

"Now, however, Obama says he doesn't believe in unilaterally reopening NAFTA. On the afternoon that I sat down with him to discuss the economy, Obama said he had just spoken with Harper, who had called to congratulate him on winning the nomination.

"'I'm not a big believer in doing things unilaterally,' Obama said. 'I'm a big believer in opening up a dialogue and figuring out how we can make this work for all people.'

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/18/magazines/fortune/easton_obama.fortune/

###
BTW, that was the same Canadian PRIME MINISTER SNOBamessiah called "The President of Canada."

So please....SNOBamessiah is RELYING on people not being smart and holding him accountable for his previous pandering when it was politically expedient....He claimed to not be like this Washington type pol....he lied.....

"'Sometimes during campaigns the rhetoric gets overheated and amplified,' he conceded, after I reminded him that he had called NAFTA 'devastating' and 'a big mistake,' despite nonpartisan studies concluding that the trade zone has had a mild, positive effect on the U.S. economy.

"Does that mean his rhetoric was overheated and amplified? 'Politicians are always guilty of that, and I don't exempt myself,' he answered."

###
Wonderful...What a guy SNOBamessiah is for that admission! I guess the voters in Ohio that voted for him based on his words then no longer matter? Which is it, MikeH?

Lie about the 527's, MikeH....

Who spent more in 527 ads in the election of 2004?.....

THE DEMOCRATS!

"Based on filings with the Internal Revenue Service, the report showed that Democratic 527's were organizing and operating much earlier in the 2004 election cycle than Republican groups, in part because Republicans were challenging the legality of 527's before the Federal Election Commission. By May, when the commission said it would do nothing to change the rules, Republican 527's had spent just $237,000 on the presidential race, compared with $73 million by Democratic 527's.

"At that point, however, Republican groups rebounded quickly, spending $62 million through the end of the presidential election, as the Democrats spent another $115 million."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/17/politics/17donate.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

###
Read it and weep, MikeH....SNOBamessiah is demogoging the issue and will likely spend THREE TIMES AS MUCH on negative campaign ads than McCain and the republicans because he will have no limit to his spending.

If 527's were the reason SNOBamessiah wanted restrictions, why did he not sit down with McCain like he promised to restrict their activity voluntarily?....He unilaterally deserted campaign caps on his own....he will continue to make negative ads himself spending unlimited funds....

That is NOT CHANGE....it is a power play like all typical politicians make....the 527 charade does not make it ok. You are a poor and uninformed apologist for the savior!

Cee: "I have no problem with McCain changing his position on....."

AHA! It isn't about 'flip-flopping' at all, is it? It's all about what you view as "correct" flip-flopping.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cee: "I like my taxes low, especially when I'm paying more for food and energy"

Are you making over a quarter million a year? If not, then what are you worried about? The dirty little secret that republicans never like to admit is that the "Bush Tax cuts" were a gift to the wealthy, and had little to do with average Americans.

One example of successful republican mythology is the so-called "death tax" that they used as a political football for so long. A friend of mine's mother died recently. She owned a very modest house and very few other assets. He and his brother and sister were worried about how they were going to pay the "estate tax" on that house. I told them that the only people who were charged Federal estate "death" taxes were the very wealthy. They didn't believe me until thay checked it out for themselves. They were a victim of the "death Tax" misinformation campaign by the republicans.

Likewise, it's so telling how whenever they talk about 'raising taxes', they ALWAYS leave off the part about how it is targeted alnost entirely at the wealthy. Whats wrong with "the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"?

And finally Cee, I have never figured out why it just doesn't seem to trouble your crowd at all that the deficits are literally mortgaging America's future?

"Who spent more on 527 ads in 2004"

The point isn't who spent more in 2004....the point was who ran the ugliest, most misleading, and (unfortunately), the most effective 527 ad campaign of them all? We all know it was SBVFT, and such vile tactics are now reaping their backlash.

Sorry MikeH....according to what Obama said, he will simply allow the Bush tax cuts expire according to FACTS about where the rates were at pre-Bush, this will mean higer taxes on all tax payers....

"McCain calls for no changes to today’s low rates.

"Obama will revert to the pre-Bush tax cut regime. If you’re single, making $30,000, McCain will tax you $4,500. Obama will extract $8,400 from your wallet -- almost double the take! Single making $50,000: McCain’s tax is $12,500; Obama’s is $14,000. Single making $75,000: McCain’s tax is $18,750. Obama will bite you for $23,250."

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=27025

###
I verified this on SNOBamessiah's website....no where does he claim he will not return ALL tax payers to the original rates pre-Bush....He does not say only those making over 250K will see their taxes go up....he only promises some nonsense regarding meager tax credits

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

And what about the capital gains tax and investments.....

"Again, McCain says he’ll make no changes. The maximum rate will stay at 15%. Obama is all for change. He’ll roll back this tax cut to the pre-Bush rate of 28%, again almost doubling your taxes overnight. This plan is especially cruel to older folks who have planned to sell their bigger homes and count on using this income (after their homeowner’s exclusion) to help fund their retirement. Ouch again, Obama.

"Then there is the dividend tax.

"OK, you’ve been religiously saving over the decades and buying up blue-chip stocks whose dividends you now count on to carry you through your golden years. Or, you have your savings invested in an IRA or retirement plan, mutual fund or life insurance annuity. McCain’s dividend tax won’t change from the maximum rate of 15%. Obama will once again repeal the Bush tax cuts, bumping this tax rate up to 39.6%, an increase of -- hold your wallets -- over 160%. The impact on the middle class, much less our barely-growing economy -- are obvious. Really ouch, Obama!"

###
Can you refute these changes? I looked at SNOBamessiah's website I have not found these conclusions refuted by SPECIFIC plans. Why should I not believe this would not happen? Do you have specifics from SNOBamessiah saying this will not happen once Bush's tax policies are reversed?

What about the funding of the healthcare plan he wants....will this not be a new payroll tax that will affect all people?

What about his and other dems plans to RAISE THE SOCIAL SECURITY limit....this will affect the middle class.

And finally, your death tax argument is all nice and good, but there are people who believe that taxing someone TWICE is wrong and I agree....The death tax sould remain zero and it is and the democrats have decided that it is ok to tax people twice. I disagree.

It is a shame that in using the 527's in 2004 as an excuse to forgo mandatory spending limits, SNOBamessiah and his supporters essentially admit it will be open season for negative ads. BTW, the democrats were just as ugly in their 527's in accusing Bush responsible for lynchings in Texas in 2000.

ANd you ignored SNOBamessiah's previous promise to sit down with McCain and AGGRESSIVELY work out a solution to the 527 problems among others to PUBLICALLY FINANCE THE CAMPAIGNS....he broke that pledge and you simply ignore it....how nice!

Cee: Regarding the so-called "death tax", I don't agree that beginning to tax an estate at $2,000,000 is double taxation. You only accept that premise if you also accept the premise that the still very lucky heir was somehow taxed on money they never earned themselves previously.

MikeH, was the income that generated that 2 Million dollar estate taxed?....Were the investments that contributed to that savings and assets liely taxed and if not did the person legally protect those assets from taxation?

It is PUNITIVE and I do not believe in THE GOVERNMENT being in the business of either punishing people for success OR resdistributing money simply to enforce somekind of arbitrary "fairness." Taxes are ONLY for the purpose of running essential services WE THE PEOPLE deem necessary for the common good. Once we start allowing politicians to USE taxes for their own power and influence over us, we have given up some freedom and this is what the founders warned us about.

Leftists see benefits in extra influences of taxation....it is part of their ideology....I am not a leftist hense my position.

Cee, you're wrong again. I just looked at some of my old late 1990s IRS tax booklets, and the tax rates you just quoted for lower income Americans are completely WRONG.

For example, A single person making $30,000 AFTER all deductions and exemptions was taxed $5287, NOT $8400. The tax rates for 2007 for the same income after deductions and exemptions was $4113. Yes, there was SOME difference, but NOT the absurd difference you just posted.

TELL THE TRUTH CEE. We're tired of outright lies and misrepresentations!

That said, we all know that they had to throw the middle class a bone in the process of helping out the very wealthly. But thats ALL they did!

Cee on taxes: "It is punitive...."

No it isn't! It is a simple acknowledgement that someone so fortunate as that be asked to return some small modicum portion of their windfall into the system that made it possible for their success in the first place.

Call that 'punishment' if you wish, but there are plenty of people who fall in that category themselves who are unselfish enough to understand and agree with that very reasonable premise.

The simple fact remains that if Bush's tax cuts are allowed to expire, income tax rates for all tax payers will increase....true or not, MikeH? And according to the campaign website, SNOBamessiah only offers tax credits to offset the increase in rates and they are not guaranteed to totally offset the actual tax rate increase.

Also, there are plenty of people, including the founders, who saw such taxation as the 20th century far left sees as "fair" as an accumulation of power....That is what it is all about anyway...taxes give politicians power and influence....

Social Security....Will Tim Russert's widow get 100% of what he paid into this so called pension plan?.....No she will not....the government actually already spent it all anyway.....

Healthcare.....when SNOBamessiah passes universal healthcare, how will he pay for it?....A payroll tax....where will this money come from?

Oil Company Windfall profit tax.....where do corporations get their money from to pay taxes?.....The money they collect for their goods and or services.....correct?....What a concept!

The same with the death tax.....Government having the money to laud over the masses in reliance and wasteful spending versus the money in the hands of the very people who earned it......

Left versus right....thank you for clarifying the choice for me MikeH (although I already knew SNOBamessiah was an out of the mainstream socialist already!)

Cee: The simple fact remains that if Bush's tax cuts are allowed to expire, income rates for all tax payers will increase....true or not, Mike?"

What is true is that you just posted an outright LIE in order to sensationalize your case while simultaineously questioning the honesty and integrity of Senator Obama. How many other embellishments are you also posting that nobody is bothering to call you on?

That said, you can keep arging for "lower" taxes all you please, but I want my government to live within it's means just as I have to live within my own means....and I am personally willing to pay my fair share to help achieve that end.

Alrighty then...no answer to the questions....Government collection of taxes no matter what their negative affect on the personal lives and economic health of our population will be sorted out after they are passed....

Despite the track record of such behavior in the 1970's.....

Sorry MikeH, I have yet to see that SNOBamessiah and his ideological cohorts be responsibile with such power....

And you want to give them carte blanche.....

Oh and nice dodge of the 527 issue....again, the solution could have been what SNOBamessiah promised in the first place.....sitting down with McCain and forge a really new way to approach the funding and limit outside groups....but he reneged.....

What's to say he will not renege on those nice tax breaks for the middle class and those promises to renegotiate NAFTA (that he was going to opt out of when he was campaigning in Ohio but now says was just overheated rhetoric)......

Again, I post citations, MikeH....you post what SNOBamessiah feeds you for propaganda.....like......

that silly self-promoting "playing president" seal.....

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/20/when-the-obama-logo-and-presidential-seal-morph/

###
VERO POSSUMUS!

Cee: "Again, I post citations, MikeH".....You also post outright LIES with no apology and yet you STILL expect me or anyone else to take you seriously. You also avoid the many salient points I bring up while daring to lecture me for ignoring some of your biased "citations".

Sorry Cee, but your ideology only makes sense in the unethical 'me first' America that I hope we are finally saying goodby to.

Oh, and the shield SNOBamessiah replaced with his "O," it symbolizes
something very interesting.....

"A shield with thirteen red and white stripes covers the eagle's breast. The shield is supported solely by the American eagle to denote that Americans should rely on their own virtue. The red and white stripes of the shield represent the states united under and supporting the blue, representing the President and Congress."

###
Wow, SNOBamessiah replaced the shield (all of us) with his "O." What a concept....

What arrogance!

VERO POSSUMUS!

"Sorry Cee, but your ideology only makes sense in the unethical 'me first' America that I hope we are finally saying goodby [sp] to."

###
And hello 'SNOBamessiah is our savior and ruler' America...

unquestioned and holy!

VERO POSSUMUS!

"sitting down with McCain and forge a really new way to approach the funding and limit outside groups....but he reneged...."

That approach had already been scuttled by McCain himself in two recent situations; the first was when he did speak out against a low blow ad and was loudly ignored, and the second was just last week when he proclaimed that he cannot control every renegade ad, therebye signaling the hopelessness of 'limiting outside groups' without actual legislation.

Even the leftist apology factory NYT is admitting SNOBamessiah broke his word, MikeH.....But don't worry, you are still under the influence of his aura despite his reversal!.....Enjoy!

VERO POSSUMUS!

Cee: "The same with the death tax....government having the money to laud over the masses in reliance and wasteful spending versus the money ion the hands of the very people who earned it"

By "masses", it sounds like you must be once again referring to today's typical CEO types who USED to value integrity, hard work, and the health of their corporation and employees above their own personal enrichment.

By "earn", you must be referring to the money those same CEO types are "earning", which amounts to about 400 times the salary of the average worker in their own company these days. You call money obtained like that "earned"?

but it might help you to understand that those who tend to deride the intellect of others usually prove to be the the ones most lacking in intellect themselves.

by mikeh

"lets see... airhead, boob, brainless, bozo, dimwitted, dumb, dumbass, fathead, fool, idiot, jackass, moron, nitwit, stupid....Just a few of the terms (rom the Olbersaurus) that Keith has used on others."

by J$

Olbyloon Hypocrisy.

Just for curiosity OS, what in the hell does your THIRD repost of that bit of out of context trivia have to do with the discussion at hand? You really do act like you're aflicted with turetts syndrome sometimes.

Nope. Just like proving what a hypocrite/hack you are. I might even post it again.

Nope. Just like proving what a hypocrite/hack you are. I might even post it again."

Well then why don't you try proving it?....instead of posting something taken completely out of context that will have zero meaning to anyone who didn't read the original posts in it's full context.

In other words, you're not proving a damned thing.....except what a complete idiot are.

You accuse Cecelia of makng things up, cee of lying and me of posting things "out of context." See the pattern, here?

MikeH, I see many more responsible and compassionate Americans than you do...including myself. The bogeymen you, SNOBamessiah and the rest of the radical left use to inspire the fear you need for people to give up their freedom for some kind of vague economic security you all promise them is a sad tactic that sometimes works.

REAL hope is derived from something real and proven. Self reliance, family and community is where real hope is for most of the economic threats we all face....not some huge unfeeling, anaccountable government program that is wasteful and only increases the power of lying and manipulative pols like SNOBamessiah.

He has shown himself to be the same old tired effete leftist the democrats always put out, but has the talent of charisma and presentation that has swayed some uninformed folk. This is the reality and nothing you have posted has shown this not to be the case.

VERO POSSUMUS!

Markos Militsas(Iman of Kosakstan) was on with Qwazy Keith last night. This is the same Markos who likes to refer to Chris Matthews as "Tweety". Markos is about as brave as Olby, condemning from afar, but never venturing forth into enemy territory.

I flipped over long enough to hear KO report that yet another dead celebrity loved him. He actually played the clip of George Carlin praising his show - well, Carlin lauded "the first 30 min" of his show but didn't comment on the quality of the remaining minutes. In reading various articles about GC it seems he was a gracious man and complimented many people so KO was one of many on the receiving end of his kind words.

So who will be the next dead famous person to sing Olbermann's virtues and how much "news" time can he fill with such self-serving info? And why is it news?

Cee: "MikeH, I see many more responsible and compssionate Americans than you do....including myself."

Is this yet another 'fact' you pulled out of your derriere? How the hell would YOU know how many "responsible and compassionate Americans" that I see? The only thing that is known between us that is an absolute fact is that I am older and much more experienced than you are.

I'm still wondering what inspited you to post that outright lie about taxation rates at 6:57 PM last evening? Was it just an honest mistake on your part?.....Or is it part of a deliberate pattern in which you feel perfectly justified in posting false 'facts' simply to embellish your arguments? The fact that you have just brushed it off since being called on it is a very strong indication of the answer to that question.

Since I'm probably not going to receive an answer to the above question, I am going to point out that the conversation we were having had absolutely NOTHING to do with self reliance. I personally believe in self reliance as much or more than you think you do, and I have spent a lifetime giving to my country (including my 4 years of military service), and have taken nothing from it. So don't try to change the subject by giving me a lecture on "self reliance", which is in itself nothing but another Right Wing talking point and has nothing to do with the real issues at hand.

OS: "You accuse Cecelia of making things up and me of posting things out of context. See the pattern, here?"

And Cecelia DID make it up when she asserted that I had previously discussed Obama with respect to public campaign financing, .... and you very much DID take those qoutes completely out of their original context, which BTW is part of a deliberate pattern on your part.

You got a problem with the truth jack?

"By ktt on June 24, 2008 10:31 AM

I flipped over long enough to hear KO report that yet another dead celebrity loved him. "

His narcissism abounds. lol. CNN did the same thing. Should a piece where he mentioned them in his act. When if was finished the commentator giggled like, "Oh my, that George, he was such a cad." lol. These people at MSLSD really do love themselves don't they? I'm fully aware of how devastating Tim Russerts death was to those that worked with him, but to dedicate an entire weekend and Monday morning, not to mention a rerun of the funeral this past weekend, on the guy just reveals how narcissistic they are over there at MSLSD. During many of the interviews with some of his colleagues "A Mourning Nation" was mentioned. They had no clue that the nation wasn't mourning. In fact many I know mentioned his death in passing. They were sorry, but oh well. If anyone wishes to know how clueless the media is to what's going on in the heads of most Americans just think of the "Tim Russert" weekend on MSLSD. Those folks give new meaning to "out of touch." lol

mikeh, crying "out of context" doesn't make it fact. Put what you said:

"but it might help you to understand that those who tend to deride the intellect of others usually prove to be the the ones most lacking in intellect themselves."

by mikeh

"lets see... airhead, boob, brainless, bozo, dimwitted, dumb, dumbass, fathead, fool, idiot, jackass, moron, nitwit, stupid....Just a few of the terms (rom the Olbersaurus) that Keith has used on others."

by J$

...next to what Johnny pointed out about the orange faced liar and all you can dream up is "out of context?" You were nailed, face the facts.

"mikeh, crying out of context doesn't make it fact."

But what you are posting IS very much out of context. Maybe you need to study the meaning of the word "context" in the dictionary before posting any more of your stupid stuff.

And after you've finished consuling the dictionary about the meaning of the word "context"....and only after you've gone back and studied the COMPLETE exchange again.....come back again and tell me how I was "nailed" when JS was talking about Olbermann, and I was talking about someone else entirely?

.....come back again and tell me how I was "nailed" when JS was talking about Olbermann, and I was talking about someone else entirely?

by spinmaster

Why would it matter WHO you were talking about? It doesn't.

"I don't really care to discuss the personal shortcomings of one Keith Olbermann"

by olbypologist

As he's parked on Olbermannwatch.com. Oh, the irony.

"Why would it matter WHO you are talking about? It doesn't."

I guess by that very twisted logic I could quote one of your patented attacks on any liberal you care to name....and then use that quote to imply that you were talking about Michael Savage?

Sorry MikeH...the posts you are referring to are referenced with sites backing up their claims....you claim to look at old tax forms and I am supposed to believe your tripe?

The basic facts remain....old tax rates for ALL taxpayers were higher and these rates will return under democrat control. Tax credits and complicated deductions are fine and dandy, but I do not trust the government and the actual cuts should remain and spending on the federal level should be reduced.

MikeH, you totally overlook my questions while I answer your silly ones. I did not lie last night, I sited document researched information while you claim information I have no way of verifying.

Continue with your class warfare CEO bogeyman propaganda....SNOBamessiah loves his disciples to rant. I will continue to deal in facts. Government power increases at the expense of personal freedom because of fear....the dems use economic insecurity to pry more power away from the people....nothing new.

No change. And no hope.

VERO POSSUMUS!

"but it might help you to understand that those who tend to deride the intellect of others usually prove to be the the ones most lacking in intellect themselves."

by mikeh

Where does it say, "Im talking about obama" or "obama?" Ding!!

Oh, and MikeH....get a sense of humor......

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Making_fun_of_Obama.html

###
Mr. Stewart was very astute when he said, "You know....you can laugh at him."

Amen! This generation's Richard Nixon needs to be regarded as he truly is....an arrogant and driven pol....nothing more.

VERO POSSUMUS!

Cee: "Sorry MikeH...the posts you are referring to are referenced with sites backing up their claims..."

Wee Mr. Cee, I now have proof POSITIVE that the sources you rely on on are biased to the point of being toally inaccurate. I now challenge YOU to go back and look at any late 1990's OFFICIAL IRS tax booklet and study the tax tables. Next....compare them with the current tax tables under the same conditions. You will see that I am right and that your information is WRONG.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cee: "you claim to look at old tax forms and I am supposed to believe your tripe?"

Not necessarily, but you ARE supposed to go back and look at the official IRS information for the years in question, as I did, instead of relying on right wing talking point sites for misinformation.
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Cee: "The basic facts remain...old tax rates for ALL taxpayers were higher and these rates will return under democrat control."

Yes, "ALL" tax rates were MARGINALLY higher under democrat control, and I've already said that, but the key word here is "MARGINALLY"! Of COURSE the middle class was thrown a bone while the REAL serious tax cuts were given to the wealthy. How else were they going to keep them quiet?

I was in those very tax brackets you quoted during that time, and I have always computed my own taxes, and that is why I knew what you posted was total BULL.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cee: "Tax credits and complicated deductions are fine and dandy,"

And what does that have to do with ANYTHING that we have been discussing?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cee: "but I do not trust the government and the actual cuts should remain and spending on the federal level should be reduced."

Then you should have thought of that BEFORE backing an unneccessary foreign entanglement that is costing us around half a billion a day of funds borrowed from potential future adversaries.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cee: "MikeH, you totally overlook my questions while I anser your silly ones."

I haven't overlooked anything unless you believe loaded rhetorical questions actual merit an answer? However, there is nothing "silly" about calling you on posting FALSE statistics designed to cynically bolster your own arguments.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cee: "I did not lie last night, I sited document researched information while you quoted information I have no way of verifying."

There is nothing more official than the IRS's OWN tax tables for any given year, and one has to wonder just WHY it would be so difficult for you to veryft such public information? It also makes me wonder why you haven't saved that information yourself as part of your own.
records?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Continue with your class warfare CEO boogeyman propaganda...."

See....Instead of defending CEO pay, you call it a "boogeyman" issue while pretending it isn't part of the problem....in the very same email that you claim you are answering my questions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"SNOBamessiah loves his disciples to rant."

Cee, ALL you do is rant! And the mere FACT that I respect Johm McCain's name and stay out of the mud when I do criticize him is PROOF POSITIVE THAT I am a far better man than you will ever be!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cee: "I will continue to deal in facts."

Such as the false tax "facts" that you posted last night?
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Cee: "Governamnet power increases at the expense of personal freedom because of fear....."

Are you referring to the "fear" based campaign THIS present governamnt you admire so much has been using that very phenomenum to increase it's own power? I'm not sure what else you could be referring to with that particular talking point?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cee: "The dems use economic insecurity to pry more power away from the people....nothing new."

The "economic insecurity" you are referring to is largely the result of poor economic policy created by years of unbalanced republican iniatives skewed heavily towards the interests of HUGE multi-national corporations, while ignoring the interests of ordinary Americans.
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Cee: "No change. And no hope."

That will certainly be true if we let "fear" cow us into creating another 4 - 8 years of regressive international and economic policies by electing McCain.

OS: "where does it say "I'm talking about Obama. Or "Obama?", Ding!"

I know you've been asked this before, but are you REALLY as dense as you act? You STILL have it wrong. HInt: I wasn't talking about Obama either.

Now go back and read the exchanges again and MAYBE you can figure it out if you study it long enough. Slow learners like you really CAN learn if you just put the time and effort into it.

A HELPFUL HINT: You have to look at the post I was responding to.

Bzzz....I hear something in my ear.....Oh yeah!....it's SNOBamessiah's leftist talking points!.....More of the same from MikeH!

VERO POSSUMUS!

"More of the same from MikeH!"

Ha ha, I thought so.....That's how both you and your hero react when you are blown out of the part with facts....you hide behind rhetoric, close yours ears (not that they were ever open), and yell YA, YA, YA!

Oh and Cee, since you posted this little gem as well; "I sited document reseached information while you claim information I have no way of verifying"..................Let me help you a little:

You see Cee, there's this little web site called "Google". Most of us already know how to use it but you seem to need a little help with that. So All ya hafta do is type in "1998 tax tables", or "1997 tax tables", or "1996 tax tables", etc., etc, etc, and VIOLA! The very first option is the IRS's own official tax tables for everyone to see. You can compare any middle class income for any given recent year with any other.

This might help you to rely on FACTS in the future, rather than "sited document researched information", ..... whatever THAT is?

Well MikeH...you lied....the marginal tax rate for a single individual in 2001 making 30,000 was 28%....That comes to $8,400 like the article said. You tried to get one by me by claiming one should include personal exemptions and deductions....guess what....not everyone can do this....especially if someone is claimed as a dependent by someone else!

I never claimed these rates were based on including deductions and exemptions...and why should they....these are the worst case scenarios!

That is the claim I made and sure enough I found even more documentation for the rate claims....

This plan was passed in 2003, Mike, and the chart documenting these rates, which SNOBamessiah wants to return to pre-Bush levels, is located at:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/reports/taxplan.pdf

Page 9.....Read and weep MikeH....The marginal rates is what I discussed in my post and is what Bush lowered....Thank God.

I did not lie....you did.....BTW, what year were those tax rates you claim were from, "the 1990's?"

I prefer to remain paying 25% as opposed to 31%.....how about you?

And those bad ol' rich people....more power to them....they are still paying WAY MORE money to the government than I am!

VERO POSSUMUS!

Cee: Well MikeH...you lied....the marginal tax rate for a single individual in 2001 making 30,000 was $28%...."

NO Cee, I didn't "lie"....but you certainly are persistant in keeping up with YOUR little lie.

I got news for you Cee baby, .... people making $30,000 a year don't use "the marginal tax rate", they use something called the tax tables printed exclusively for that purpose by the IRS.

And according to those very tax table, a single person with a taxable income of 30,000 in 2001 paid a federal tax of $4876. If that person's GROSS income was $30,000, the tax would have been much lower at around $3000 due to typical deductions and exemptions that were available to everyone. And, once again, that is only MARGINALLY higher than what a person paid under the same income conditions in 2007.

Google Cee, GOOGLE...It's not so hard.....It's so easy even a Cee-man can do it!

Cee: ...."BTW, what year were those tax rates you claim were from, "the 1990's?"

1996, to be precise Cee. That works out to about 17.5%, and NOT 28%. Now if I had wanted to embellish my case Cee style, I would have used the 2001 tax tables, which was $4876, or about 16%, which once again, is a FAR cry from $28%.

Since you have such a problem researching such simple to find info, here is a run-down of EVERY year since 1996:

- 1996 = $5287
- 1997 = $5203
- 1998 = $5112
- 1999 = $5060
- 2000 = $4995
- 2001 = $4876
- 2002 = $4453 (yes, right after the MARGINAL Bush tax cut).
- 2003 = $4316
- 2004 = $4244
- 2005 = $4171
- 2006 = $4126
- 2007 = $4113

BTW Cee, are you sure you're representing yourself correctly on this blog? It seems that terms like "marginal tax rate" is not a term any ordinary taxpaper would ever have reason to use or worry about.

Good move Cee. When you've lost an argument, tuck you tail between your legs, run away, and just pretend it never happened.

I've got news for you Cee. You lose most of your arguments.....This is just one that you can't deny or spin.

Just our daily dose...

Wow, I come back to work and see MikeH unseemingly congratulating himself.

Sorry if you did not understand the argument in the first place, but the percentages of taxation were accurate even though you wanted to change the argument to the tax table. I have made that point 3 times now, but it seems the message just can;t get through.

I did not lose my argument. My argument was simply that SNOBamessiah is going to raise taxes on all taxpayers. Period. Renewing the Bush tax cuts will gurantee taxpayers will continue to pay substantially less than they did prior to 2003.

But the democrats, like SNOBamessiah, cannot live without raising the citizens' taxes and even add taxes (which you did not address....tail between your legs in reality)....Like a new payroll tax for a huge government run medical insurance program and increasing the cap on social security taxes.....

Oh and MikeH...how about one of my questions about social security....the "pension plan," will Ms. Russert get 100% of what Mr. Russert paid into this "pension plan?"

It may be a rhetorical question...but it is one that makes you look silly so that is why you refuse to answer it.

Taxes, taxes, taxes....whether they be an increase of 28% or 17% it still means SNOBamessiah will take more money for wasteful government programs that are abused by pols like him to buy influence and power. I happen to like freedom and will always fight giving that up for some fear sad sacks like you have about economic security (or some judgement of fairness for redistribution).

And how about SNOBamessiah's crazy plan to increase capital gains taxes, MikeH? He was not even aware that this DECREASED tax revenue when it was done last time. You see, when you increase taxes on success, people change their behavior and less taxes are brought in....but that seems to be an impossible lesson for leftists like you to learn....I guess you will be like you were Monday and simply ignore the question like the silly coward you have always shown yourself to be.

And please expand more on how you were once a conservative in the mold of Pat Buchanan (the anti-semite WWII revisionist), until those nasty neocons came along....I enjoy seeing you make a fool of yourself....

VERO POSSUMUS!

Cee: "Sorry if you did not understand the argument in the first place, but the percentage of taxation were accurate even though you wanted to change the argument to the tax table. I have made the point three times now, but the message just can't seem to get through."

WOW!....You really are the poster boy of denial in the face of IRREFUTABLE facts. Fortunately, I think most everyone else reading this blog is capable of seeing that for themselves.

Cee, The irrefutable FACT is that anyone making $30,000 a year in ANY of those years had NO reason to use anything OTHER than the tax tables to compute their taxes. No one in their right mind making 30,000 would have used the marginal tax rate in ANY of those years. And even if they had, the IRS probably would have automatically re-computed their taxes for them and returned the excess money that they had mistakenly paid.
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Cee AGAIN showing obstinance: " "whether they be an increase of 28% or 17% it still means SNOBmessiah will take more money for wasteful government programs"

Did you pass math in whatever schooling you had? Reverting back from the Bush Tax cuts will be an increase of NEITHER 28% OR 17%. The ACCURATE example above shows the Bush tax cut for a $30,000 earner was changed from $4876 to $4473, or a MARGINAL change of $403, which works out to a TINY 1.3% for ANYONE with that income. ...... Read it again Cee - that's 1.3%!
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Those are the FACTS regarding taxing an individual with a $30,000 income Cee, and if you wan to continue to look like a COMPLETE idiot in denying it, keep right on doing it......but your obstinance in the face of IRREFUTABLE facts only hurts your own credibility.

Yes Cee, .... You DID lose this argument....COMPLETELY. And now you persist in making an utter fool of yourself by continuing it anyway.

You have asked me to address the other side arguments you are making such as SS, and I am certainly capable of doing that, but as long as I am dealing with an absolute idiot denying irrefutable facts that are placed right in front of his nose, as you are doing, why would I bother to waste the time?

Here you go MikeH, go here and check out what some of you liberal compadres are saying about the "Democratic nominee"
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/20/obama_supports_fisa_legislatio.html

Poor, poor SNOBamessiah accolyte MikeH....now he's using the excuse:

"but as long as I am dealing with an absolute idiot denying irrefutable facts that are placed right in front of his nose, as you are doing, why would I bother to waste the time?"

That's your silly and wrong conclusion, MikeH. You want to use the excuse to totally avoid the truth that the democrat nominee for President wants to raise taxes. You have done it now for 5 posts and it just makes you look foolish.

Again, a reminder...my argument going back 2 days was simply:

TODAY: "SNOBamessiah is going to raise taxes on all taxpayers. Period. Renewing the Bush tax cuts will gurantee taxpayers will continue to pay substantially less than they did prior to 2003."

6/23 (the very post you are claiming makes my argument a lie):

"Sorry MikeH....according to what Obama said, he will simply allow the Bush tax cuts expire according to FACTS about where the rates were at pre-Bush, this will mean higer taxes on all tax payers...."

You can argue degree all you want, it remains a fact that SNOBamessiah does not deny he will raise taxes. My argument is that and you have yet to show that his plan lowers taxes from 2003 rates...either using the tax tables or the rate structure as outlined in the law and which I documented.

Poor, poor MikeH....now he is running away from SNOBamessiah's ignorance on capital gains rates, payroll taxes for the expansive federal entitlement for healthcare and his conservative hero's anti-semitic worldview......all because he has self-determined somekind of superiority over the lowly cee.....

What a faker and coward!

VERO POSSUMUS!

Good point Mr. Martin....SNOBamessiah has to walk the fine tightrope between his radical leftist anti-American ideology and living the lie that he does not believe the nonsense we see coming from the kos kids and MoveOn.org....so he was against the FISA compromise lsat February (when he was campaigning for the left) until a couple of days ago when he tried to say he was only for some of it.....but guess what....in The Senate it is a YES or NO....there is no "mushy" middle.....let's see where he lands......

Like HOTAIR rightly observes:

"Does Obama join in a filibuster against a bill that he supports? That might be a first for the Senate. It would be a double-reversal reminiscent of Hillary Clinton’s rapid-fire flip-flop on drivers licenses for illegal aliens in New York. If he does not join in the filibuster, he risks alienating a big chunk of the base that got him through the primaries against the Clintons — and his nomination isn’t entirely secured, as the superdelegates that put him over the top can change their minds until the first ballot at the convention. Will the Left press for that if Obama votes in favor of the FISA compromise?

"Expect a Profiles in Courage moment when the votes come up for the FISA bill — and expect to see Obama campaigning in some town hundreds of miles from DC."

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/06/25/feingold-fisa-flip-puts-pressure-on-obama/

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Ah, the man living a lie always has these difficulties in his life......

VERO POSSUMUS!

Oh, and yet another example of leftist morality:

"In a 5-4 vote, the court says the law allowing the death penalty to be imposed in cases of child rape violates the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

"'The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child,' Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his majority opinion. His four liberal colleagues joined him, while the four more conservative justices dissented."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91H573O0&show_article=1

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I wonder where SNOBamessiah stands of this one?....Does he use the Bible to influence him like he did with, "The Sermon on the Mount?"

Do you know, MikeH?.....

VERO POSSUMUS!

Thanks, Cee.

Mike... here's another one. Betya' lots of your cohorts are happy about this too, eh?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/24/AR2007052402570.html

"Congress sent President Bush a new Iraq funding bill yesterday that lacked troop withdrawal deadlines demanded by liberal Democrats, but party leaders vowed it was only a temporary setback in their efforts to bring home American troops."

Party leaders vowed...." lol... they do that alot don't they?

Here's Obomonations pledge concerning FISA.
"Given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as president, I will carefully monitor the program,..." lol, yeah, right. lol

These links I'm giving you are coming from liberal media sources. And they are just a couple or reasons why all your posturing has no effect on me. It's just hot air and an obvious attempt to throw a roadblock to the truth about your party and the so-called nominee.

I guess the Dems aren't serious about real change, eh? ;)

This is from one of the liberal posters from the FISA article in the Washingtonpost.com article. I think it says it all. Especially the second to the last paragraph that starts with "I went to the Obama blog to post my protest...." Man, is that revealing.

"Posted by: jonathan34us | June 23, 2008 7:46 PM

Here's why I've decided to vote Libertarian...

I was all set to vote for Obama in November. Now I'm thoroughly disillusioned.

I could never vote for the McCain either. After all, he supports the telecom immunity too. Indeed, every Republican representative but one voted for it (for the Democrats, 45% voted for it, 55% against).

[b]I went to the Obama blog to post my protest. There were many other angry posts there too by other disillusioned Democrats. And then guess what happened - all our posts disappeared. The Obama moderators "solved" the controversy by deleting all our posts.[/b]

Forget Obama, forget McCain. I'm voting Libertarian. Bob Barr, you've got my vote, by default."

Cee: "Thats your silly and wrong conclusion MikeH. You want to avoid the truth that the democrat nominee for president wants to raise taxes. You have done it for 5 posts and it makes you look foolish."

NO I haven't avoided it at all, and NO it doesn't make me look foolish.

However, YOU have looked VERY foolish by posting an outright LIE that someone making 30,000 a year used to pay $8400 a year in taxes, and would do so again if Obama is elected. I have shown irrefutable proof FIVE times now that what you posted is a lie, and yet you continue to deny and avoid the truth of the matter. ..... If you can't be trusted to tell the truth in matters like that, how can anyone trust you to tell the truth regarding other matters?

Unlike you and those you admire Cee, I just want the unvarnished truth given without any embellishment or ommisions.

I didn't get that from you when we discussed the estate tax (the so call daeth tax). Your side wants to keep omitted that FACT that it only begins to apply to estates worth $2,000,000 or more.....And to your sides dishonorable credit, you have apparently succeeded in keeping the wool pulled over the general public eyes on this one, since the majority of them don't seem to know about this very important exemption.

And then I didn't get the truth from you when we discussed income taxes for ordinary Ameicans. While I have readily admitted that ordinary Americans did receive a very MARGINAL tax cut in 2002 at the same time that the wealthy were given a HUGE tax cut,....you have continued to try to sell the LIE about someone making 30,000 a year having to pay $8400.

If you continue to refuse to offer the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, what do we have to talk about? I can tell you this, the American people are getting smarter and beginning to look at the detail, and that is giving me more and more confidence that the voters are going to do the right thing THIS time.

BTW, regarding Social Security......The FIRST, and MOST important step to dealing with this problem is for the Federal Government to STOP running deficits, and then to STOP using treating incoming SS funds as general revenue. Only THEN can we talk about taking the second step towards a final solution.

Cee to me: "does he use the Bible to influence him like he did with "the Sermon on the Mount?"

All I know is that YOU obviously don't when you post outright LIES regarding absolutes about taxation amounts, but then try to cover it up by switching the argument by pretending the absolute amount really doesn't matter anyway when you are rightfully called out on your lie....ie. "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor"!

The Obama moderators "solved" the controversy by deleting all our posts.[/b]

What do expect from cowards?

OS: "What do you expect from cowards?"

The same thing we get from you!