The happy days link is a little too scary for me...

Kos is on the Hour of Spin. He claims the moonbats will not abandon Obama, but will not support him as intensely as the once did. They will think he is just merely a god, not the One True Obamessiah.

I forgot to mention the previous post in about B. Hussein's FISA vote.

Where's the recap? It's 9:39.

I'll give a WPitW recap for now:
In the Media Matters Minute, Herr Olbermahn attacked the "New York Post" for taking Mets interim manager Jerry Manuel out of context, Michele Bachmann for saying the Caribou in ANWR would have a "coffee clatch" (which I think she also said on "The Factor" last Wednesday), and Monica Crowley (Blue Blog Source: newsliars, I'll bet). And sadly, this evil man and his latch-on girlfriend who's movin' up at the CW11 aren't going anywhere.

Sorry, I have family from out of town this week and I'm not able to do recaps. I was hoping the infamous, deplorable one would be on vacation this week. But hey, if I managed to miss the insufferable Kos, then it's all good.

You're forgiven.

"and sadly, this evil man and his latch-on girlfriend who's movin' uop at the CW11 aren't going anywhere."

Whats "evil" about him? ..... Where is the morality in making personal attacks on his girlfriend? ..... And finally, what's it to you whether he goes anywhere or not?

"I don't really care to discuss the personal shortcomings of one Keith Olbermann"

by mikeh

OS, I have often wondered if you are really from the planet Mars or some other wierd place? The statement you just quoted speaks for itself and does not contradict in any way anything else I've said.

I'm on record of criticizing Keith Olbermann myself for: Being over the top....making too many personal attacks.....and his obsession with Bill O'Reilly.

That said, I still like the man overall because I've found that no human being on this earth is flawless, .... and such a progressive presence like his on cable news is a positive thing, .... especially as long as an entire "news" network like Fox unapologetically continues to represent the interests of the right while cynically calling themselves "fair and balanced".

That statement alone proves than I am far more politically objective than you can ever hope to be.....and, unlike yourself, .... I understand the meaning and importance of using the correct context.

OS, I have often wondered if you are really from the planet Mars or some other wierd place? The statement you just quoted speaks for itself and does not contradict in any way anything else I've said.

I'm on record of criticizing Keith Olbermann myself for: Being over the top....making too many personal attacks.....and his obsession with Bill O'Reilly.

That said, I still like the man overall because I've found that no human being on this earth is flawless, .... and such a progressive presence like his on cable news is a positive thing, .... especially as long as an entire "news" network like Fox unapologetically continues to represent the interests of the right while cynically calling themselves "fair and balanced".

That statement alone proves than I am far more politically objective than you can ever hope to be.....and, unlike yourself, .... I understand the meaning and importance of using the correct context.

Last week while driving, I tuned into my local right wing shock jock's talk radio program for a while. He said something completely prepostorous while watching a Fox "news" graphic with the sound turned down.

I went home and reseached the source of his remarks and then sent him an email chiding him about how he had broadcast a total lie about what the the democrats were doing, while presenting it as if it were a fact.

To my surprise, I didn't get an answer from the talk radio host, but I got one from his boss, the head of the media group that he works for. His response started with; 'You sound way too intelligent to believe everything my talk show host says, and for that matter, Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity either'.

He went on to explain that most AM talk radio does in fact cater to the "extreme" because otherwise, "who would listen?" Then he followed that up with his own believe that he doesn't really think this particular talk show host REALLY believes the misinformation that I had called him on, even though he had just ranted it out to a local media market of over 2 million. He went on to defend it as "entertainment".

It is rather startling to me that, not only would the head of a media group, which literally keeps itself in business by using extreme right wing talk radio would come right out and admit that what they are feeding the public is "extreme", and would also imply that their own customer base wasn't really all that smart either!

This would all be rather funny if these people didn't vote!

BS.

OS: "BS."

You must be one of the ones he was talking about!.....LOL!

Give me your email address and I will send you the actual email!

What's the name of the "right-wing shock jock?"

"What's the name of the "right wing shock jock?"

While I really wanted to keep his name out of it on this blog, I didn't expext to be called a liar, and I suppose it is public information.

His name is Bill Lumaye.

Whats "evil" about him? ..... By MikeH on June 24, 2008 2:49 PM

Mike, for one who gave 4 years of his life to the armed forces of the United States of America how in the world could you ever, I mean ever, defend this traitor?

It is one thing for any host to defend the country at all costs, and yes, even if those costs mean being over the top like you would assume many of the right wing shock jocks do, but they are doing it to make the country look better. Propaganda when used to defend the country agaisnt propaganda used to defame the country surely isn't something you are against I hope?

Yet, on the other hand olbermann not only uses his propaganda to promote his agenda, but he uses it at the risk of making America weaker without a regard that he may be doing this. In actuality he IS doing it to make the country look bad, and he loves doing it.

How do you explain that whenever president Bush did anything that was positive for the country he spins it to make it look like he was wrong....When the pizza terrorist plot was broken up he took it upon himself to insinuate that these were fools that anybody could have stopped.

When the British broke up that plot of terrorists using planes as weapons, ala the 9/11 terrorists, with our help...he again said that president Bush had nothing to do with it.

When the 4 terrorists were caught in Upstate New York planning another full scale attack against America he said that even if they weren't caught it wouldn't have amounted to anything.

His constant put downs of our president ("Mr. Bush"..."resign" etc.) along with his devisive attitude about all that is good in America I think speaks for itself, as this is not the ramblings of some over the top leftist shock jock (for if it were, we would all be having a good laugh at the fool making an ass of himself everyday), but it is the rantings of a man, who for all intents and purposes, is nothing less than a Mata Hari or Tokyo Rose trying to aid and abet all our enemies at all costs.

He is a traitor who if it was in any other decade would not only have lost his job by now, but would have been arrested and put away for sure.

Yes Mike, this is not only a fool who carries on with his lies from day to day where thousands unfortunately hear him, but he is about as evil as they come. No good will ever come from anybody who preaches that their president should not be respected and especially while we're at war. God only knows how many more deaths this abomination has caused by his lies and agenda's.

It is one thing to disagree with the president and to voice that disagreement, but it is a whole different ball game when one is doing all that one can to disparage the good being done by the country, and to do it with lies and malevolence while our soldiers are in harms way.

Okay, you disagree with the present administration, while I disagree with you, but I'd never be calling our next president Mr. Whomever, and putting him down when he does something good for the country. Just won't happen.

He is bad, and he IS evil. Make no mistake about it brother, and if thankfully McCain is elected you will hear the same things being said about McCain as you heard about president Bush.

Root for the home team bro, no matter who is running it. Disagree all you want, but when it may cost even one life from your rantings then that does not make you anything but evil.

And PLEASE don't get into president Bush having the lives of all those servicemen on his hands, as many a great president has sent his people into war. FDR, Kennedy, Lincoln, etc...

Sorry I went on so long Mike, but this "rebuttal" was because of what I see as the most obvious mistake people have made from time to time on this blog, and that is that olbermann is nothing more than a fool. Unfortunately if he were only a fool then he'd be only a tenth as popular as he is, but being that he hates America, and all that it stands for IS what makes him stay on the air. Mata Hari and Toyko Rose must be proud...

Anybody catch what's his name's profile when they took a never before seen wide shot near the end of tonight's show.
Worth the price of admission.

Wolverine, it would not be possible for me to disagree with you more. I don't quite know where to start, so lets take your points one at a time:

1) - "For one who gave four years of his life to the Armed Forces of the United States of America, how could you ever, I mean ever, defend this traitor?"

Because he is not a traitor. In fact, I consider him to be a patriot of the highest order for speaking out against an indefensible war, the trashing of the Geneva convention, torture, The gutting of the Constitution, and the pwer grabs of this president. Sometimes the ONLY defense we have to an out of control politician is a vigilant and dissenting media.
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2) - "It is one thing for any host to defend the country at all cost, and yes, even of thoses costs mean being over the top like you assume many of the right wing do, but they do it to make the country look better."

No they don't! They do it to make themselves, their political party, and their ideology look better, NOT their country. Don't EVER make the mistake of confusing defending an ideology with defending your country. That is EXACTLY what you seem to be doing Wolverine.

This sounds suspiciously like a doctrine they used to use of "my country right or wrong." The problem with that doctrine is that defending your country's action when you clearly see them as wrong is anything BUT patriotic.
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3) - "Propaganda when used to defend the country agaisnt propaganda used to defame the country surely isn't something you are against I hope."

To begin with, I am against propaganda of ANY kind, and I don't see anything I would call propaganda in Keith's presentations. While he often is "over the top", I see nothing he says as being propaganda. I usually have already confirmed anything he discusses beforehand, and when I haven't, I generally look for independant confirmation elsewhere, and 99% of the time, I find KO's reporting to be based on truth. Here's another bit of wisdom for you; don't EVER make the mistake of confusing what you consider an over the top presentation with propaganda.

As for 'defaming' the country, what you don't seem to understand is that the country "defames" ITSELF whenever it misbehaves on the world stage. And THAT is exactly why America is now hated and mistrusted the world over like never before. I want my country to be respected worldwide again, and there is nothing more patriotic than that.

Defending torture is NOT defending America.....neither is the intentional trashing of the Geneva convention.....defending a war that should never have been started and is a distraction from the real war or terror is NOT defending America....and finally Wolverine, do not EVER make the mistake of defending the president as the same thing as defending America! By the same token, "Defaming" an out of control president is NOT the same thing as defaming America.
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4) - "Yet on the other hand Olbermann not only uses propaganda to promote his agenda but he uses it at the risk of making America weaker without regard that he may be doing this."

Wolverine, stating the truth does NOT weaken America....It strengthens it! What "weakens" America is when Americans continue to support wrongheaded policies out of fear of not being patriotic enough. There is NOTHING more patriotic than speaking out against something that you consider to be wrong....and therefore trying to improve your country.
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5) - "In actuality, he IS doing it to make the country look bad, and he loves doing it."

As someone who agrees with him most of the time, I wholeheartedly disagree again. He is doing it to try to STOP his country from CONTINUING to make itself look bad. See the difference? Whatever psychic powers that you think you may have, you are NOT capable of dicerning his or anyone else's motives for speaking out against what they consider to be wrong.
CON'T BELOW

For Wolverine Con't:

6) - "how do you explain that whenever President Bush did anything positive for the country he spins it to make it look like he was wrong....When the pizza terroriss were caught he took it upon himself to insinuate that these were fools that anybody could have caught."

They WERE fools and "anybody" did catch them. They were caught by primarily citizen's vigilance, which had little to do with Bush's policies.

That said, these terrorist had no resources, they were dumb, and they never presented any real threat of mounting a large scale terrorist attack. The administration used this to score political points and I applaud KO for calling them on it. I for one, became very sick of thise stupid terrorist code colors they kept using, and I considered it nothing but a political ploy to keep reminding people about terrorism.

Wolverine, in my vision of an ideal America, people do NOT cringe and worry about the possibility of a random terrorist attack any more than they worry about a randon car accident. Actually I find it embarrassing that world apparently sees us as a bunch of sissies living in fear of what amounts to nothing more than one more risk out of many that we brave every day. And I find it rally perplexing that the far right seems wants Americans to live in fear.
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7) - "when the British broke up that plot of terrorists using planes as weapons, ala the 9/11 terrorists, with our help....he again said President Bush had nothing to do with it."

He didn't! Once again, you are confusing every day law enforcement and citicen vigilance with something you think the president did. Increased vigilance was an OBVIOUS result of the 911 attacks, and this kind of vigilance and co-operation would be occuring regardless of WHO was the president.
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8) - "When the 4 terrorists caught in upstate New York were caught planning another full scale attack he said even if they weren't caught it wouldn't have amounted to anything."

I agree with him, and once again, President Bush didn't catch those people.

The mistake YOU seem to be making is in attributing EVERY positive result in the war on terror to the president, and assuming the same result would not have occured if someone else had been president, ..... and that is a fallacy!
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9) - "His constant put downs of our president ("Mr. Bush"... "Resign", etc.) along with his divisive attitude about all that is good in America I think speaks for itself"

But it speaks something entirely different than what you think it speaks. First off, you just re-made the smae mistake of equating THIS president with "all that is good in America", and that is yet another fallacy on your part. I can see all that is good in America without also believing we have a good president, which we emphatically do NOT have at the present.
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10) - "as this is not just the ramblings of some over the top leftist jock )if it were, we could all be having a good laugh at the fool making an ass of himself every day)."

No it isn't Wolverine. It is the TRUTH being spoken like no one else in this still timid media. That said, the only one I see making an ass of himself every day is our president, and I cannot wait for the day in which I can once again take pride in my president even though I have never lost pride in my country while being ashamed of my president.
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11) - "But it is the rantings of a man, who for all intents and purposes, is nothing less than a Mati Hari or a Tokyo Rose trying to aid and abet all our enemies at all costs."

And you are WRONG again. He is trying to get America and Americans to wake up and never again allow a non-vigilant media and a too-trusting public to allow something like Iraq to happen again. I believe if everyone was like you, we would have already attacked Iran, the middle East would be ablaze, and we would have now found ourselves in an even bigger international mess.

CON'T BELOW

To Wolverine, Con't:

12) - "He is a traitor who if it was any other decade would not only have lost his job by now, but would have been arrested and put away for sure."

Take it from someone who has lived through several more decades than you have that what you just said is a complete and utter fallacy. You seem to have the notion that we have a more permissive and free society than we ever had, which emphatically is NOT the case.

America's free press and America's freedom of speech has been essential for making us who we are, and keeping us who we are. Yes, there may have been a few times in our distant past when freedom of speech was abridged, but those were indeed dark times, and fortunately sanity eventually prevailed again.

And once again, Keith Olbermann is anything BUT a traitor, but it does make YOU borderline suspect yourself for suggesting that speaking out in an attempt to right what is wrong is somehow traitorous. However, I lay some of the blame for that kind of twisted thinking to your age and inexperience.

There WAS a dark period in America's relatively recent past when a renegade senator from my wife's home state of Wisconsin took it upon himself to rid us of everyone he considered to be a communist. His name was McCarthy, and fortunately he was finally disgraced, but not before he had destroyed the lives of some very good Americans.
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13) - "Yes Mike, this is a fool who not only carries on with his lies day to day where unfortunately thousands of people hear him, but he is about as evil as they come."

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "evil", which apparantly to you, means someone who disagrees with you. If adherring to your dogma ever becomes the definition of what is not "evil", than heaven help us all because we will have then become exactly like some of the most repressive societies that have ever existed.
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14) - "no good will ever come from anybody who preaches that his president should not be respected and especially while we are at war."

This one is my favorite! THIS is the one where you show where your head is really at more than any other.

First off, the president of the United States works for US. Do you not understand that? He is NOT some exalted ruler to whom we all must bow. When he is wrong, as this one usually is, he must be vigorously ooposed. And also when he is wrong, opposing him IS the most patriotic thing TO do.

Your point about showing more respect for a president because we are "at war" completely ignors the reality that this is the SAME man who started this unneccesary war in the first place......The idea that people such as you think that should make us abide him the utmost respect is astounding to me. By THAT absurd logic, all ANY president would need to do is start a war in order to cement his own authority and respect. I could not believe it when so many voters in 2004 decided to vote for Bush simply because "we are at war", while completely ignoring the reality that Bush is the one who took us to war for bogus reasons in the first place. BTW, That phenomenum is called "wag the dog".

That said, "we're" NOT at war. Several hundred thousand service members, contractors, and their families are at war, but you and I emphatically are emphatically NOT at war. Most Americans don't have a clue what being "at war" REALLY means.

Wolverine, I know right wingers, but I don't KNOW ANYONE in my personal life as ideologically dogmatic as you are. It is FASCINATING to read your thoughts that you don't seem to realize are as un-American in principle as you believe they are American.

I think I'll leave it at that....you get the idea!

mikeh, newsflash! Olbermahn is a defender of the enemy just as is obama. He wants to notify terrorists when they are under investigation. Do you even know that? I doubt it.

13) - "Yes Mike, this is a fool who not only [carries on with his lies] day to day where unfortunately thousands of people hear him, but he is about as evil as they come."

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "evil", which apparantly to you, means someone who disagrees with you. If adherring to your dogma ever becomes the definition of what is not "evil", than heaven help us all because we will have then become exactly like some of the most repressive societies that have ever existed.

>>

Notice the "hands over eyes" in regards to olbermahn being a liar?

Most Americans don't have a clue what being "at war" REALLY means.

by mikeh

You are a prime example.

"mikeh, newsflash! Olbermahn is a defender of the enemy just as obama."

And YOU are obviously a prime and clueless example of what thinking people call "a useful idiot". .... One of the prime subjects and supporters of right wing talk radio, .... who are actually dumb enough to believe the extremist views they are being cynically fed by hosts who don't even believe the nonsense they are spewing in order to enrich themselves.

Which "nonsense" are you referring to?

He wants to notify terrorists when they are under investigation.

This is fact. Educate yourself.

OS: "This is a fact. Educate yourself."

"Educate myself" by listening to right wing radio designed to appeal to the most extreme and the least intellignt among us with lies and half-truths by their own admission?

I will try my best to refute all your statements, but to be honest with you I know I'll be beating my head against a wall, as you probably won't understand most of them...

1) He IS a traitor, just like OS said, as he would want the right to notify the enemy when we are close...Quantanamo Bay. Have you seen how they are being treated? Potential terrorists you believe should be let go? And if not then where have your freedoms been denied? I'm still waiting for my phone to be tapped or for the storm troopers to come bursting through me door. Seriously Mike, when was the last time your rights were violated to the point that you feel you must get a gun to protect your self?

2) I don't see the government doing anything that would ever infringe on my rights, therefore I don't see them doing anything wrong.

3)99% of his show is pure propaganda, and if there has been any torture given that helped to prevent the deaths of Americans (which the FBI has already stated has worked) then why would Mata Hari be against that? Hmmmm...

4) At the risk of deaths on the battlefield is what your are saying, and of course Mata Hari is saying daily too.

5) Mike, it doesn't take a psychic to see and hear what he preaches everyday. "America's wrong. Mr. Bush is wrong. America is evil" is about all Mata Hari says who, like I said, if anything good is done he will break it down with his lying spin to make us look bad.

6) The awareness made by President Bush's policies certainly was the catalyst in catching these guys. Even if what you say is correct (I know they're not but let's say they were) why not then give credit where credit is due? Yes Mike, America would be "ideal" if all things stood pat, but unfortunately after 9/11 there is now the real America where the reality of an attack is ever present. To defend one's country is not "living in fear," but is the duty of the elected president to do all that he can to make sure it doesn't happen again. He is doing what he should be doing, and we haven't been attacked since.

And, as far as being "sissie's" living in fear you can't have it both ways Mike. On one hand we are hated by the world, as you say, because of our policies crush independence and freedom, while on the other hand we are hated because we are "sissie's" afraid of our own shadows. We got attacked and we responded. Look how Spain reacted when they were attacked. The term "sissie's" surely could be attibuted to them if you want, but not us. Being prepared and using every resource necessary to prevent another attack is certainly not "living in fear" but is being prudent and smart.

7) Blair himself thanked President Bush and America for its help in this instance, which unfortunately to Mata Hari and obviously you too must have caused you great pain because the acknowledgment from Blair to President Bush verified that what President Bush war against terro was working. And again, even if ANY president was at the helms when this happened the fact is is that it WAS President Bush who was the commander in chief at the time, and to demean this accomplishment means to demean the administration and our country...Anti-American at best. At worst...evil

He (obama) wants to notify terrorists when they are under investigation.

Are you denying this, mikeh? Playing dumb?

Wolverine: "I will try to refute all your points"

Tell you what wolverine, instead of trying to "refute" reality, it would be better if you opened your mind to what America and it's Constitution is REALLY all about. And don't kid yourself by giving me that condescending 'I wouldn't understand' crap. I understand your arguments perfectly....I just find it hard to believe that you are so willing to sacrifice Americas principles and standards for what you believe will be a tactical gain. That is a false premise, but even if it were not, it would not be worth sacrificing our cherished principles over.

I have already explained to you how wrong it is to equate loving and respecting America with loving and respecting President Bush. Hating or criticizing Bush is NOT the same thing as criticizing or hating America. I don't know why that is such a difficult concept for some on the right to grasp, but it sems to be. So many of you can't seem to separate Bush and the military, and so many more of you can't seem to separate the concept of hating what Bush has done with hating America. They are not one and the same and they never will be.

Also, lets be clear about one thing...When you call Keith Olbermann a "traitor" for expressing views that I agree with 99% of myself, you are also calling ME a "traitor", so maybe you should just cool it a little with such extremist rhetoric, over-the-top, and anti-American rhetoric.

Keith Olbermann hasn't caused a single death on the battlefield, but I can assure you that president Bush has caused many, so you should cool it with that kind of extremist rhetoric as well.

You questioned when you or I have been raided or had our phone tapped as if that were somehow the point? Trust me, it ISN'T!.... However, the potential for this kind of abuse along with the fact that we are moving in the direction of creating a more intrusive and invasive government IS very much the point. Our Constitution is something that has served us well for a long time and it isn't something to be tinkered with out of convenience.

The arresting and holding detainees indefinitely at Quatanamo with no oversight while giving them no chance to present their case to a judge of any kind is the very kind of totalitarianism that we are supposedly fighting against. In addition, as long as the government has the option of holding someone indefinately without giving them the right to petition a judge.....potentially endangers EVEN the the freedom of Americans, because if YOU were personally arested, and then were never given a chance to petition the legality of you detention, then you would have in effect, lost your Constitutional right to Habeus Corpus. Don't laugh! This is possible, and rights are lost one step at a time.

As for torture, it doesn't make one hill of beans that you or I are not being tortured. America is bound by principle to adhere to accepted standards of conduct, and when we don't, how can we call ourselves any better than the enemy we are fighting?

Your version of the "sissie" argument just doesn't fly either. As a matter of living, we face any number of potential risks each and every day. Why in the hell are we as Americans freaking out over the infantestimally small chance of being the victim of terrorism while we hardly worry at all about the possibility of a head on collision, which is many times more likely? It doesn't pass the sniff test of rationanity. And yes, it makes us look like "sissies" when we worry too much about it or overeact to the possibilty Internationally.

Your 'after 911' argument doesn't fly either. Yes, we got attacked but the risk was ALWAYS present and every prudent observer knew it. Nothing "changed" at all on 911 except our smug feeling of invulnerability. We just discovered that we were always vulnerable, but we SHOULD have already understood that.

And finally, attacking and invading the WRONG enemy; one that did NOT attack or threaten us, was as stupid a thing to do as America has ever done. All it has done for us is pin the bulk of our military down in a location that was always bedside the point of where the real terrorism problem was located and has made us look like idiots Internationally in the process. Until you Neocon hawks recognize the reality of this mistake, no reasonable solution to the problem it has created is even possible.

OS: "are you denying this Mikeh? Playing dumb."

Of COURSE I'm denying it but since Obama has never said anything like that, it is up to YOU to explain EXACTLY what you are talking about, and exactly why you believe it?....Or shut the hell up about it!

To Mike (cont)

8) President Bush's policies, once again, had all to do with these arrests, and once again both you and Mata Hari seem fine with demeaning the administration and its policies. Anti-American at best, and to not acknowledge it or even worse what Mata Hari does is to put it down. Would Tokyo Rose have said anything different?

9) Totally disagree with you here, but disagreeing on Mata Hari's part is not what my point was so I'll leave it at that.

10)The TRUTH as you say coming from Mata Hari is about as real as the Easter Bunny. He lies on a daily basis to make our president and our country look bad and evil, and this is funny,..."timid media"! Mike, what world do you live in, or to better that what country? The media is 80% liberal which attacks our president daily and our schools are even worse where my daughter, who is a senior in high school, only knowledge about WWII is about the internment camps where the Japenese Americans were put.

As far as the attack on Pearl Harbor, she "learned" that it was OUR FAULT because we set up a blockade of Japan and that they were only retaliating as was THEIR RIGHT! So I guess that means that this present day Mata Hari (olbermann) would have also condenmmed FDR or as he would say "Mr. Roosevelt" please RESIGN>>>The liberal press has done all it could to bring down our nation and our president at every turn, and the worst, the absolute worst of them all is this days mata Hari.

11)again, the liberal press is anything but non-vigilant towards their hatred of the president and they prove it daily with their rants against anything that is America. Christ, their abu ghraib coverage made it seem like it was Nuremberg all over again. And the irony is, is that WE were the ones being judged by our own press. Like we slaughtered millions of defenseless arabs instead of putting some underwear on their heads. Oh, the HORROR of it all!...As far as Iran, I'd do the same thing President Bush is doing, which is to wait it out and see what happens or to how far they'll go.

12)I am 55 Mike, so I guess that makes you about 75, and knowing this I won't be as harsh anymore...No, the society is not more free and permissive as you would say than it was back in the 50's. Back then we had millions of babies dying every year from abortion, AIDs was in full bloom, 80% of the nations papers were liberal, girls giving blow jobs was not real sex either, drugs were rampid and easy to acquire, kids wore whatever they wanted to wear to school, TV shows had all the cursing and nudity one would want, the movies had more sex and violence then even today, gay parades were a national scene...etc..

Wake up Mike, and at least take a whiff of the coffee, and understand that in the year 2008 we are way MORE permissive and way MORE free to do whatever the hell we want, and don't worry it is only going to get worse.

I saw this coming in the 60's which is why me and three other guys held up the flag at my high school where about 500 kids were trying to tear it down. they were all trying to tear it down NOT because of any other reason outside of that they COULD. ..Patriotism my ass! Weak and disillusioned cry babies were all they were, and because they were always spoon fed they felt they had the "right" to bring the flag down. funny thing though, because they were phonies and din't have a clue about what they were "rebelling" against they couldn't do it. They were no different than this present day Mata Hari...

13) Again as I emphasized in my first rebuttal to disagree is one thing, but to do it for ones personal agenda and at the risk of harming America and its warriors is treason and evil

14) I know the president works for us, as WE voted him in. Maybe not you, but the majority voted him in. I would feel the same if Obama gets elected and he chooses to go to war. The people will decide, but after deciding we cannot say when things don't go according to each individual's thoughts and if they get tough, that we will do all we can to make out country look bad, and especially so if their are American lives at stake.

Do you really believe that our enemies and the terrorists do not hear and see what Mata Hari has been saying these past few years? Do you really believe it doesn't empower them to continue their attacks against us and our troops? You cannot denounce a president (dem or rep) who decides to go to war because YOU disagree with him. FDR, TR, JFK, Truman, Clinton, etc.. all sent us to some form of war and every time the American public shared their displeasure it hurt ouur troops. that's a fact.

You can disagree all you want, but to have a national show making up lies and begging for the presidents head at all costs (even if the costs are American lives) is not only wrong but treasonus. Mata Hari does it daily whether he's right about the facts or wrong and for that he should be arrested. Listen to what he says, really listen, and man it's no different than what Bin Laden says and Mata Hari said.

My father served during WWII and heard Mata Hari frequently and even though after a while he said he got used to it, he said in the beginning it unnerved most of the soldiers to the point where his commanding officer had to call meetings to reassure them that what Hari said was all lies and that they were winning the war.

Olbermann is no different.

Last but not least Mike, and to all the uninformed who can only read this blog and not be a part of it, my father landed on the day after D-Day and saw his share of fighting. He told me everything about 10 years before he died, and as far as President Bush misusing the constitution with all his "torture" methods my fathered laughed when he heard what may be occuring now.

He wasn't proud of what he HAD to do at times, but the key word there is HAD, as he explained it it was either them or us. The Geneva convention was all well and good where it pertained, but when the enemy was not adhering to it all bets were off. He did what he had to do to not only save his life but the lives of thousands of his brothers as he put it.

In one of those instances they caught a German patrol fleeing and through torture, yes Mike torture and from what he said the worst kind imaginable and death they found out that there was a Jewish death camp not 1 mile from where they were. After some time they finally got out of these prisoners that the commanding officer of this campe was on the verge of killing allm the prisoners there.

My father and his men responded in time and saved over 4,000 prisoners without ONE dying. Not one, and yet he lost some men in the battle....

Sorry Mike, whatever it takes to rid the world of these monsters I am all for, and when this present day Mata Hari continually attacks our president with no facts and with his anti-American rhetoric then he is nothing other than an evil man....We ARE at war Mike, and if you feel this all will go away sometime with a new president then you truly are the one living in another world...

Olbyloon Ed
Student:mikeh
Subject:Patriot Act

Obama voted for terrorist notification of investigation within 7 days instead of 6 months. Nice!

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:5:./temp/~c109Rl81H2:e9983:

Wolverine, while I thank you for not calling me a "traitor" again, you seem to be essentially making the same arguments over and over again, so we should just agree to disagree.

BTW, I am in fact 56, and my own father was also a WWII Veteran. He was also a Korean War Veteran and a two time Vietnam veteran. My brother is also a veteran, and so is my late Brother-in-law, who was a bealated vistim of agent orange in Vietnam. I was in the military during the Vietnam war myself, but I never had to serve in Vietnam due to the luck of the draw.

Much of my cynicism comes from that period of time, but obviously you and I saw it far differently....but an honest difference of opinion is an American as it gets.

I saw most of this this coming as well. But I obviously saw it through my own lens. Vietnam divided our country because it was another unneccessary war of choice,.....and you can take it to the bank that EVERY time we choose to go to war except as a LAST, LAST resort, there WILL be ALWAYS be massive desent as a result. This is human nature and we should have learned THIS lesson from Vietnam..... I thought we had, but apparently we did not. When those tanks started their role across the Iraqi desert, my thought was that there had BETTER be WMD's, and there had BETTER be evidence of a nuclear program...or there would surely be hell to pay! The only surprise to me is that there hasn't been far more desent and anger over this then there has been.

The key words are LAST RESORT. I just do not believe a president has the lattitude to start a war based on his personal wishes. While they had convinced a majority that invading Iraq was necessary, they NEVER convinced a sizable minority that it was a wise thing to do, and therein lies the problem. Whenever you have a very sizeable minority that opposes something as serious as starting a war, you probably DON'T have the justification needed to do so. As for your Obama reference, I surely hope Obama has more judgement than to try to build a legacy based on elective war, and I surely won't support him either if he follows Bush through the deep end.

War is never predictable. There will always be unintended consequences....And that is why it should NEVER be undertaken lightly or as be seen as ANYTHING but an absolute last resort. Bush let us down in all these areas, and that is why I think far less of him than even I am willing to articulate on a public blog. Bush SHOULD have known what he claims he didn't know. In other words, when a president decides to go to war, he/she had damned well BETTER be right...and this president emphatically was not!

Sorry we disagree. You sound like a decent fellow.

Sorry OS, your link doesn't work.

But hey listen. If you want to convince ANYBODY of ANYTHING, you need to sit down and articulate an argument, rather than take one part of something out of context and defend it by posting a link.....or....otherwise, as I just said...just shut the hell up!

I wouldn't expect you to do anything for yourself. Whatever you do, don't change. Stay lazy and uninformed.

One more thing. Your "out of context" schtick is old and tired.

Of COURSE I'm denying it but since Obama [has never said anything like that,]

by mikeh

Very telling.

Hey, mikeh. Remember John Kerry? LOL!

OS: "I wouldn't expect you to do anything for yourself."

Here's a bit of hypocrisy from the KING of one liners on OW. Any damned fool can post links and let others do the work. I for one, don't believe you are even CAPABLE of articulating any kind of an argument in a real debate.

OS: "One more thing. Your "out of context" schtick is old and tired."

As long as you keep posting and referring to things taken out of context, I'm going to call you on it. The truth never gets old...and constantly leaving out context is one form of lying.

Yes, Mike my "novel" reply was 99% for the non-believers who can only read this post and truly haven't a care about this country nor its ways. You I have never included as a traitor nor will I ever, but I can't say it doesn't bother me that you do not see the evil of olbermann's ways.

Like I have always said to disagree is every American's right, but in how one does his disagreeing is what I question.

Yeah, you and I will always disagree, and if the millions who disagree with me also did it with some thought behind their disagreements and with the convictions shown that you do then I wouldn't have half the hard time I do when they protest. I just don't see it from them when I have this type discussion, as it's all about the name calling of our president, and yes, most of them somehow lead right back to the military being just as guilty.

I think there is a matter of respect that must be shown to the president no matter who is the president, or to how much one disagrees with his policies. You have shown this even with your total distain of president Bush, yet I have never not once seen this type of respect from olbermann while at the same time is lies leave a lot to be said.

Anyway, yes we will always disagree, and I'm sure if we were in some bar we'd have some heated arguments pertaining to this administration, but I have no doubt we'd still be buying each other drinks.

I have no doubt what I would do if I was in the same bar with Mata Hari however, but then again I would probably lay low for the fear of him having me arrested for child abuse.

Till the next time Mike...

As long as you keep posting and referring to things taken out of context, I'm going to call you on it. The truth never gets old...and constantly leaving out context is one form of lying.

by mikeh

On Olbyplanet, everything must be "out of context."

I would strongly suggest you read up on the Patriot Act and how your boy has voted on it. Mr. Soldier.

Remenber John Kerry when he was ahead in the polls in July? LOL!

Any damned fool can post links and let others do the work.

by mikeh

Except you.

The baseball collector (in this post's "Topps" link) rightfully talks about Olbermann (aka merkle923) "cornering the market" on certain cards. $399 was a lot of money to this guy (and most average folks). Not to Olbermann. Funny for a guy who can't pay up on a tax debt under $2000, he sure can blow it on cards. Just recently he spend $5,999 on a SINGLE auction of cards:

http://tinyurl.com/68lp9n

Thank goodness he has his priorities straight. Screw paying taxes, blow money on your childhood hobby...