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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004

    September 14, 2008
    Is Keith Olbermann an Islamic Terrorist?

    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (94) | | View blog reactions


    Finally, we have proof.

    That was one of the best videos I have ever watched.
    The KOS kids need to take a look at it.

    Thanks for making my day.

    It kind of reminds us of the CRAP that Michael Moore makes up!
    Think about it MORON ED.
    Oh by the way, so much for global warming these days!!!!!

    dude it is a joke...and yea it def is making fun of conspiracy leftists


    Your hero KO has used even less evidence for his theories (i.e. FoxNews being in Guilianni's camp because Greg Kelly is a Fox reporter and the same Greg Kelly is the son of Guilianni's former Police Chief.)

    Hello Pot, this is the Kettle...

    Hey dfunk.....
    Don't tell Edo that it was a joke, he takes this stuff seriously.
    Everyone knows that there are no lefty conspiracists.

    You guys need to leave EdwardO alone. can't you feel his pain. I could feel his tears breaking his poor heart. Keith is his first and only love how can you all be so cruel, if he can't worship his keith he has nothing.

    Thanks Johnny$. Thats all the proof I need. The same proof Keith requires. Is their a padded cell at Gitmo Bay for Keith?

    "Dullard is that you using a British accent, do you honestly think any person with a brain will believe that guy, do you think anyone is that fucking naive..."

    I think this speaks volumes about our you Eddy.

    You actually thought this guy was serious.

    You are one TIGHTLY WOUND DUDE....

    So fixated on "EVERYTHING OLBY iS GOOD" and "ANYTHING ANTI-OLBY IS BAD" (even a cleverly conjured joke, like this) requires a "knee-jerk" reaction to deride and destroy.

    Ed, youv'e just given us a look into your tortured left-wired brain.

    There is hope though.....there are meditation techniques, drugs and even electric shock has made incredible strides in the recent may want to avail yourselve to ALL THE ABOVE.

    An instant CLASSIC, Johnny!


    Can OW offer that man a job?!

    J$, I know I've said it before but that is the best.

    I don't know how you keep outdoing yourself but somehow you do.

    I would say that that is as reasonable and constitutes just as much proof as KO's Speshul Komment linking busted terrorist plots to GWB's political needs.

    I'm sorry, Ed!

    I've been inconsiderate! I had no idea you were in such distress!

    There you at J$P, longingly pressing up against the window, your copious nose hair tainting the glass...

    Behave yourself and take your medication and you CAN rejoin the regulars at Johnny's, Ed!

    You can do it! Miracles happen!

    EdwardRolberman is GREAT! you honestly think any person with a brain will believe that guy, do you think anyone is that fucking naive...(well maybe somebody without a brain would)

    You can't make this stuff up! Too funny!

    He's just too damn funny!

    God! I have never had so much fun looking to see the next statement coming from ERO!

    Keep it up ER, as your rants are priceless...

    You can only fantasize, Ed... :D

    By EdwardROlbermanAuthor Profile Page on September 14, 2008 2:28 PM

    UH Probably no I dont like to watch dikes do it to thereselves

    Well, my guess is your girlfriends are just acting out of necessity.

    I know that this vidio is a joke, but to me Olbermann is only about a half of a step above a terrorist. Anyone who has ever seen his show can see that he is easily manipulated, therefore he can not have anyone on his show whos opinion differs. And dont forget how much he hates this country. I dont know if that came from getting beat up as a kid, but he is a very unhappy person.

    I think that EdwardRdumbass must really hate the way Johnny Dollar rips his precious News Hounds apart to keep coming here ranting and raving to a group of people who could care less what he says and end up beating him to a's takes a real sad person to expose themselves to that kind of embarrassment. LOL!!!!..sort of like KO. New Murrow indeed.

    okay i know a little about this subject. By using a windfall profits tax, obama is going to discourage the u.s. oil companies from actually drilling and producing oil. which in turn will affect the whole country and could possibly make this economy turn into a recession. i'm not disagreeing with greenspan, he's a genius. tax cuts on the wealthiest may not be great for our economy...things are going to get worse before they get better...but obams plan could possibly bring this country into terrible recession much like jimmy carters did in the 70s..his plans are so similar to carters, and carter almost ruined the economy. so greenspan is right, but he doesn't mention that obama's plan to tax rich making people not want to make more money and be taxed and therefore take away jobs to the middle class along with a crippling depletion of american oil will destroy the economy...

    By MLong wrote:

    I think that EdwardRdumbass must really hate the way Johnny Dollar rips his precious News Hounds apart to keep coming here ranting and raving to a group of people who could care less what he says and end up beating him to a's takes a real sad person to expose themselves to that kind of embarrassment. LOL!!!!..sort of like KO.

    Maybe ERO is KO. We all know olby lies, plagarizes, hates America, and is dumb. Coincidence?

    It's more likely that EdwardRMurrow is part of a group of people who attempt to deluge J$P with spam, so he must monitor and slow the site down, and who attempt to attack the OW server here. Bob wants to appeal to a range of people, so Ed got in to post as well.

    These folks believe that either Roger Ailes or Rupert Murdoch are behind the funding of both blogs and their attitude is that they are perfectly justified in making things as hard as possible for these "hate sites"... "propaganda sites"....whatever...

    It's quite an astounding mindset. There's no appeal that they will hear. There's no opponent or opponents admirable enough to deter them. There's no higher principle they respect more than their own desire to impede those they feel to be in the way of "progress".

    Frankly there's just no where to go with these folks.


    Still waiting for you, or any leftist dingbat, to tell us what the "Bush Doctrine" is.

    Cecelia wrote:

    Frankly there's just no where to go with these folks.

    True. Better just to ignore their lies, ignorance, and hatred.

    ed r olbermann's mom gave me a rusty trombone. she told me that ed r is a nambla member in good standing.

    ed r, got your fbi profile here: late twenties, poor dental hygiene, lisp, kinder homo fixation, cross accessoriser, impotent, possibly obese loner with unfounded fear of one johnny dollar. considered armed and gutless.

    ed r,, if you had a wooden leg,, youd be shit on stick.

    ed r,, th voices in your head are right. you must go the clocktower. you will go to the clocktower. oh at cal berkeley. yeah, the cal berkeley clocktower. listen to the voices ed r.

    ed r ,, as you sit in the basement banging away at you moms keyboard, while she hangs your shit stained tighty whities on the line,,do start feel that perhaps the insignificance that permeates your life is what youll always be? your mom told me last night as i dirty sanchezed her, that youre dead to her. you should be ashamed.

    >Better just to ignore their lies, ignorance, and hatred.
    Well put, dcmeyer. Now, if only more users would follow that advice.

    By the way, great parody video.

    i couldnt resist mike. just thought id go gutter with ole ed r for bit. i wont pollute any further.

    No problem. I wasn't just referring to you, anyway.

    Olbermann just called Collingsworth, Tiki and Jerome Bettis boys on national TV. stop the tivo....

    Collinsworth; no "g."

    this douchebag is the reason i am not watching nbc football tonight. i'm been pissed nbc put him on there cuz i love football and like to watch my man dan patrick. thanks a lot i am forced to listen to ko say his bullshit if i want to see football...great

    Sunday Newsday (LOng Island).....Big Piece on Olbermann

    By dfunk55

    Mute button.

    haha i like ur thinking ramjet

    I didn't watch either, dfunk. I went with ESPN in the 7:00 hour: Chris Berman, Tom Jackson, Trent Dilfer, John Saunders.

    By the way, the sped-up clip of Keith in the video was hilarous. Voice distortion, speeding up, or slowing down are always good for a laugh.

    Yeah Mike, I went with the espn crowd too...I like my commentary douche-free

    I've said many times, I have heard Rumors that Olbermann is a Muslim. So this guy isn't far off.

    Olbersockpuppet claimed:
    you people (Dollars) are so lame its not even worth you response.

    And notice how the egomaniac just can't stop from responding. Oreilly getting the Obama exclusive and the superior ratings has really left the loser in a tizzy. All he can do is lashout with his impotent attacks.

    Oh we are deleting my stuff know...

    NOTE: Patrick, you were told about our policy. I asked you to tone down the foul language and over the top personal attacks. You declined to do that and so left me no choice but to ban you and delete all your comments. Good luck to you as you battle with your personal demons. I hope you can can get some help for your problem:

    "Oh we are deleting my stuff know" EdwardRAsswipe

    Ed..for God sake learn how to use spell check you can't even spell now? LOL!!!!!

    It's about time action was taken.

    I can't believe Chuck Todd,starting to see the light:
    I hope I did this right for all to read.

    By Mike C.Author Profile Page on September 15, 2008 1:09 PM

    It's about time action was taken.


    Yes, indeed, Mike.

    Thanks, Bob!

    Thank you, Bob. Unfortunately, Patrick dealt a parting shot on my blog, which I deleted, where he threatened that another Newshounds person will take his place. And now that I'm saying this, he'll send a redo parting shot.

    I echo those thoughts, Bob. Thanks for cleaning up the site.

    Mike, please soldier on. We need you pointing out KO's hypocrisy and shamelessness. I can't stomach watching that trash but I have to laugh at the entries of those who can.

    I turned over for a few seconds and it's all about "somebody said this about Obama . . . blah . . . blah . . . blah" - same old stuff.

    Rico on September 14, 2008 5:24 PM: "Still waiting for you, or any letist dingbat, to tell us what the "Bush Doctrine" is."

    Well Rico, if you had tried asking someone other than a "dingbat" this question, you might have gotten a quicker answer.

    The "Bush Doctrine" is a catch-all phrase that sums up the Bush philosophy that he first put into action by invading Iraq in 2003. Basically, it provides ideological justification for the theoretical prevention of of future war by making a lesser war now. The theory is that we can somehow prevent major future attacks by militarily neutralizing a potential foe before they become more of a threat.

    The "Bush Doctrine" was codified in it's most cited written form by a National Security Document released in 2002 entitled "National Scurity Strategy of the United States" released on September 20, 2002. However, Bush gave several speeches during that general time period solidifying his belief in this risky strategy, which essentially also defines Neoconservatism in it's most obvious manifestation.

    This basic philosophy is behind the often stated notion that creating a democracy in the heart of the Middle East would somehow cause liberty to "flower" over the entire region, .... and we could then all live happily ever after.

    Rico, this failed strategy is essentially the essence of the argument we have been having for the last seven years, and therefore Rico, YOU should have known exactly what the "Bush Doctrine" means yourself. However, if you didn' might just help explain why it didn't literally make you cringe when someone who COULD be president in as little as five months couldn't answer such a pathetically simple question.

    Welcome back, Mike. After putting up with Patrick for a few weeks, you're a relief.

    Leave it to the leftist apologist to have the talking point ready regarding the VP candidate not having the foreign policy expertise like that of the top of the ticket.

    What he leaves out is that Obama has shown just as much, if not worse, ignorance of how foreign policy works....even breaks the law! The latest controversy, which of course is not being covered by Mike H's favorite radical leftist apologist, is Obama's violation of the Logan Law.

    Obama's response to the NY Post article regarding his interference in the negotiations between our country and the democratically elected Iraqi government (which would not be if not for the surge which SNOBamessiah predicted would make things worse), admits to the allegation.....

    "In the New York Post, conservative Iranian-born columnist Amir Taheri quoted Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari as saying the Democrat made the demand when he visited Baghdad in July, while publicly demanding an early withdrawal.

    "'He asked why we were not prepared to delay an agreement until after the US elections and the formation of a new administration in Washington,' Zebari said in an interview, according to Taheri.

    "'However, as an Iraqi, I prefer to have a security agreement that regulates the activities of foreign troops, rather than keeping the matter open,' Zebari reportedly said. …

    "Obama’s national security spokeswoman Wendy Morigi said Taheri’s article bore 'as much resemblance to the truth as a McCain campaign commercial.'

    "In fact, Obama had told the Iraqis that they should not rush through a 'Strategic Framework Agreement' governing the future of US forces until after President George W. Bush leaves office, she said."

    So the church of SNObamessiah is admitting to interfering with the diplomatic efforts of the currently elected US Government.

    It wasn’t enough for Obama to fail at forcing the nation into a defeat in Iraq when he opposed the surge. Now he has interfered with our efforts to stabilize Iraq and provide for its security after the surge succeeded in keeping Iraq from falling into a failed state. And when he got caught working for failure and defeat, he tried making it into a smear against John McCain.

    What a talented leader Barack Obama is turning out to be! THE TOP positions of the ticket seems a pretty easy call while some, like Mike H, cannot seem to get off the bottom of the ticket.


    Joemorgan, I think you mean to address Cee.

    His name can certainly be used as a diminutive of mine, but he's not me and vice versa... I'm always flattered to be mistaken for him though.

    Anyway, welcome to OW, Joe! I've enjoyed your posts.


    If the Obama campaign is actually admitting Senator Obama, "told the Iraqis that they should not rush through a 'Strategic Framework Agreement' governing the future of US forces until after President George W. Bush leaves office," this was an opposing policy recommedation to a foreign government from another representative from The United States. This is not usually done, and it can be seen as a violation of The Logan Act.

    It is his perogative to publically state such a policy position as a candidate or opposition party member of The Congress, but to be giving advice to a foreign power....I am sorry, but I have a problem with that and believe it has a much greater impact on the overall judgement and character of the candidate as opposed to Palin's lack of insight into what Gibson meant the term, "Bush doctrine" (which BTW is not much different than what the US policy has been since it has been a Super Power...for the most blatent show of this read what JFK said (and did with the blockade) regarding the Soviet's missles in Cuba!).

    I simply do not like leftist talking points (opinion) being presented as fact.....Please apply what MikeH said the doctrine was, "The theory is that we can somehow prevent major future attacks by militarily neutralizing a potential foe before they become more of a threat," to previous administration justification for military action all along a cascade of degree....from "Special ops," to cruise missle attacks, to naval blockades, to invasion and occupation....INCLUDING WHEN WE ENTERED AFGHANISTAN!

    I enjoy the entertainment aspect of it all though.......

    The guy she fired was tasering a kid for no good reason.
    With that, I'm leaving this debate. Please do not respond.

    The lead investigator is a partisan democrat who has already said that he believes there has been wrongdoing on the part of Palin herself and announced he would move up the release of the investigation. This smells political and I do not fault Palin for limiting her exposure to a witch hunt and the paper trail seems to be there and justifies the dismissal.

    Obama showed his pretense and ignorance in offerring the Iraqis alternative policy positions during a visit he said he was making as a US Senator. Palin has shown decent skill in handling issues not part of her expertise and is not running for POTUS. Obama is and has little experience and has shown poor judgement regarding foreign policy.

    Cee, your link is a hoot, especially the comments. However, it doesn't seem to be related to the points you are making.

    Don't keep the good stuff to yourself.

    I know, Grammie...I put in at the end of my post because I saw it just before and got a chuckle. I like the play Palin is getting because it shows she is a phenomenon that will continue to spark interest and that can only benefit the ticket.

    She is going to be interviewed by Couric next week. The campaign has been very smart in her roll out, keeping the interest high. NBC NEWS and CNN will also be very anxious to have time with her so I see this continuing through the beginning of October.

    I hope she does THE VIEW.

    "RightIst apologist" Cee injected: "INCLUDING WHEN WE ENTERED AFGHANISTAN."

    Wrong again, Mr right wing apology machine personified....We entered Afghanistan as a direct and justified response to an ACTUAL attack in a country in which the ACTUAL perpetrators were being protected and supported. Thus, entering Afghanistan was HARDLY a manifestation of the Bush Doctrine. Iraq was subsequentely invaded as a PREVENTATIVE action against a THEORETICAL future threat....thus is was a perfect implementation of the Bush Doctrine.

    You are trying the same tired old trick of confusing Afghanistan with Iraq, but I for one will never let you get away with it!

    BTW Cee, the Palin investigation is being led by a panel of three republicans and TWO democrats, and was well under way prior to her selction as a VP nominee. That hardly qualifies it as being politically motivated.

    Also, Palin may not be at the top of the ticket, but the she is one 73+ year old heartbeat away from that point is just as invalid as the rest of your rather extreme right wing talking points.

    '"RightIst apologist"'

    In some circles that's known as a "conservative"... :D

    I recommend that link, plus the comments, to anyone who could use a good laugh today.

    "I hope she does THE VIEW."

    Right again, Cee. I would even pay to see the Saracuda have a shot at those dingbats. :)

    "the guy was fired for tasering a kid for no good reason."

    THAT is your opinion. But it is ONLY your opinion.

    However, a governor's place is NOT pressing for the firing of low level state employees, especially when the employee in question has personal ties.

    "In some circle that's known as a "conservative"....:D"

    But in MY circle it is know as a blowback to one of Cee's favorite hot button words......"leftist apologist"...:D.

    "I would even pay to see the Saracuda have a shot at those dingbats. :)"

    Fortunately you didn't have to pay to see "Saracuda" make a dingbat out of herself regarding National security issues during the Gibson interview...:)!

    "Then MikeH if she seriously has nothing to hide, there should be no problem."


    Poor MikeH....He forgets that intelligence reports on Iraq prior to the invasion suggested Saddam Hussein was in violation of UN WMD resolutions that threatened force if the country remained in such violation. Although Bush made many speeches regarding his justification to remove islamic terrorist supporter and despot Saddam Hussein, the justification of the invasion was and will always will be the facts and UN justification at that time.

    The left's propaganda in seperating Iraq from the war on terror has no real world application. Their candidate barely won the democrat primary in appeasement of this poor ideology regarding facing a threat to the country. In addition, the Vice Presidential nominee supported the Iraq War, what was his reasoning for supporting the incursion?....Will Charlie Gibson or another journalist ask Biden why he supported it?....Was it this vague 'Bush doctrine' or was it another reason?

    The reason to invade Afghanistan and Iraq were the same....they were violating international law and/or UN resolution....Saddam Hussein was not in compliance and The Taliban were not cooperating in handing over the terrorists responsible for 9/11. Distracting with "Bush doctrine" cuts both ways.....Again, was the Bush doctrine the reason why Biden, Clinton, Reid and many more democrats authorized force against Iraq?

    And the second is a doosy!...Just today at

    "Though the governor initially said she'd cooperate, after she became McCain's running mate in late July, her lawyer sought to have the three-member state Personnel Board take over, alleging that public statements made by the Democratic chair of the Judiciary Committee, Sen. Hollis French, indicated the probe was politically motivated.

    "French had said the results of the investigation could constitute an 'October surprise' for the McCain campaign. He later apologized. The campaign also insists that French, Branchflower and Monegan are friends, even though the men say they only know each other professionally and have never socialized."

    So Mike H steps in it again. The democrats behind the probe even admitted it could be an October probing! Sorry, the democrats are using their authority to try to thwart the national campaign for their friends in the Obama campaign. Palin should only do what is required by rule of law...under subpoena, etc.

    I love how MikeH avoids the violation of The Logan Act that the Obama campaign admitted to....He is out of his league in regard to foreign policy and even his running mate had this opinion prior to being tapped as VP.....along with HRC, Biden claimed Obama was not prepared to be CiC....How does he justify the change of mind?

    McCain is the best prepared of all of the candidates to be CiC.....That is clear. From supporting the successful surge in Iraq to the Georgia crisis, Obama is a poor comparison.

    Rightist apologist Cee: "Poor MikeH....He forgets that intelligence reports on Iraq suggested that Saddam was in violation of UN WMD resolutions that threatened force if the country remained in such violation."

    Actually, I've forgotten nothing.

    It clearly means nothing to Ceeat those aforementioned "intelligece reports" were both wrong AND heavily disputed within our own intellegence community....and it also means nothing to Cee that the "enforcement" of said UN resolution he are so fond of citing was none other than the that very same UN!

    "McCain is the best prepared of all the candidates to be CIC......That is clear."

    Only to a right wing apologist.

    Bomb bomb bomb bomb bom Iran, bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran.......

    Yesiree, that jokester McCain makes me fell all warm and fuzzy all over!

    By MikeH on September 16, 2008 2:32 PM

    But in MY circle it is know as a blowback to one of Cee's favorite hot button words......"leftist apologist"...:D.

    In some circles they're known as dunderheads... :D

    Answer my question then, gents...What were the reasons the foreign policy expert in the Seante for 30+ years and VP nominee Joe Biden supported force against Iraq for violating UN Resolution? Please tell me! Was it the Bush doctrine as the left decries, or was it some other reason as listed above?

    Iraq is a democracy now no thanks to the top of the ticket, Obama (and also no thanks to Biden who wanted to impose a crazy sectarian division of the country on those free people). Obama stated his radical leftwing opposition to the invasion to remove terrorist supporter and WMD user Saddam Hussein in 2002 in front of a anti-war group......He never had to back up that position with a real vote (he probably would have tried to vote 'present' anyway) and when faced with the choice of supporting freedom against the terrorists from Al Queda and the terroists supported by Iran in 2006, he took the wrong position and predicted the surge would not only fail, but make things worse.

    The events since have shown how wrong he was and now responsible US withdrawl is taking place taking into account the conditions on the ground, as Bush has always required....unlike the democrats. This is the proof needed to show Obama is not capable of being a good leader when faced with a difficult challenge.

    McCain took the unpopular position in supporting the surge. He has been proven right. Too bad some people are unable to learn from their errors in judgement.

    And lookie here.....Rasmussen has a nice poll.....

    "Palin 47%, Biden 44% in Make-believe Presidential Match-up"

    It seems Palin's problem with the Bush doctrine did not make a big impact.

    And I think she will continue to show how skilled she is to not only present herself with confidence but to make herself more knowledgable on the issues of the day a VICE PRESIDENT needs to be up to speed on.

    Unlike the top of the democrat ticket, the foreign policy inexperience is not as more pressing. Biden was picked to try to blunt this problem and Obama has a HUGE group of policy advisors regarding foreign affairs to try to make up for his deficiencies as well...That was why it took 6 days for Obama to come up with a decent response to the Russia/Georgia crisis.


    "If it came down to it Obama would use force if he had too."

    I see no evidence of that in his worldview or his behavior as a US Senator. Before he became a national pol, Obama was closely associated with radical anti-American hegemony leftists like Bill Ayers. Why? Why would be begin his political career in association with such ideologues unless he shared their worldview? It has nothing to do with the crimes committed when Obama was a child....It has to do with the ideology that American military force is wrong and imperialistic. That is not a mainstream view and Obama now knows it.

    Sorry joe, the old cliche has some truth, a leopard can't change its stripes. Obama was against the surge and this is the only policy position that pulled out and cemented his real inclinations. Since then, his first response to the Russia/Georgia crisis was to make a moral equivalence argument that he ended up reversing and took the same hawkish position as McCain (after 6 days!).

    Biden voted against the first Iraq war after an invasion! Biden voted for the second Iraq war with the same intelligence available to all of The Congress but decided to pull away from that position as the far left made their force known and it became an unpopular position. Obama never had to commit in the first place, but sided with the surrender Iraq crowd.

    McCain stands alone in this race who consistently stood for the principle of a free and democratic Iraq. Polls show the American people are coming back around to agreeing with that value system and the dems simply want to ignore that truth.

    "It seems Palin's problem with the Bush Doctrine did not make a big impact."

    But the rather comical notion of the republicans running against themselves apparently has.

    Neither notion says very much for the intelligence of non-affilliated voters who are being polled and targeted.

    Sorry MikeH, Obama's contention that McCain will be Bush II is false and McCain's reaction to the current financial challenges, his pick of Palin who is young, unknown to the Washington elite and inspiring, and his attitude towards his own party regarding earmarks is making an impact on the nation's view of him.

    The more this election is NOT about Bush but about the two men running, the better chance McCain wins because Obama has many negatives and has lost his luster of inevitability....

    Remember the luster of inevitability that the media pressed at the beginning of 2008 because the 'Republican brand' was so damaged. That has all changed! People are identifying themselves more and more as Republicans and now some polls show that Congress may not become more democratic.

    This was never supposed to be close, let alone have McCain ahead. He's a republican! That meme is LOST! It is a referendum on the actual candidates, as it should be because McCain IS NOT Bush as the democrats are lying about.

    Just like there are different democrats....Lieberman, Pelosi, Clinton, Obama, Biden....there are different republicans......Cheney,, Bush, Giuliani, McCain......Too bad that the radical left has taken over in the democratic party and demand purity.....LET THE PURGING BEGIN!


    "Obama never had to commit in the first place, but sided with the surrender crowd."

    This ridiculous statement makes about as much sense as the notion that Obama called palin a "pig" (that is, before McCain admitted that his own ad was a lie).

    Cee is claiming that someone smart enough to understand that invading Iraq was actually a stupid idea was somehow 'surrendering' to a nation we weren't even at war with.

    Cee keeps right on using stupid words like "surrender", "victory", etc., even though General Petreaus himself has said in the last week that such hyperbolic feel good words as "victory" do not apply to this conflict....just as I have said all along.

    Finally, there is no historically relevant proof that "the surge" has done anything other than prolong our own involvement in the internal affairs of a country we had no business being involved with in the first place.

    The only factual judgement issue of relevance here involved the foresight of the younger candidate to recognize that going into Iraq would be a collosal mistake, while the older candidate showed no such wisdom when it might have actually counted.

    Also, regarding Georgia, Obama was the only candidate who showed the wisdom and nuance to recognize that there actually were TWO sides to this there almost always is!

    Correction, MikeH.....

    "The only factual judgement issue of relevance here involved the foresight of the younger candidate to recognize that going into Iraq would be a collosal mistake, while


    showed no such wisdom when it might have actually counted."

    Why did Obama pick Biden then....Was it a mistake because I have been under the impression that Biden was chosen BECAUSE of his foreign policy chops......

    A heartbeat away is a heartbeat away.....72 year olds as health and full of vitality as McCain are living well into their 80's, so it seems Palin and Biden are on pretty much the same footing!

    Again, the surge, even lately admitted by Obama, made the current stability in Iraq possible....Victory is possible now but withdrawl without considering the situation on the ground (like Obama wanted to do back in 2007), that being the US leaving an ALLY in Baghdad, not a civil war with Al Queda and Iran backed terrorists having sanctuary.

    Surrender...leave Iraq to Al Queda and Iran......Victory....a democratic ally not looking to destroy us or or friends in the region.

    There you go, MikeH....Like I have said hundreds of times before.....VICTORY (and defeat) in Iraq defined.....E - A - S - I - L - Y !



    1) - "Obama's contention that McCain is Bush II is false"......Why? What has he done, said, or suggested that amounts to anything more than pandering? Also, what's wrong with Bush? After all weren't you one of his biggest defenders until now?

    2) - "McCain's reactions to the current financil challenges"......You mean more pandering by talking more like a demorat than a republican. After all, isn't it the republicans who have been preaching hands off the markets? I say just vote democrat and don't be fooled by an elephant wearing a donkey uniform.

    3) - "his pick of Palin, who is young, inspiring and unknown to the Washington elite"......Yes, classic palitical pandering at it's most cynical! Win at all costs. Reignite the social wars. Refuse the fusion of social conservatives with bluebloods and get them to vote against their own financial interests - once again........Very clever....but hardly admirable.

    4) - "and his attitude towards his own party regarding earmarks is making an impact on his nations view of him.".......Wink, wink - nod, nod!

    Yes Cee....we all know how well McCain can pander!

    "why did Obama pick Biden then?".......I personally wish he hadn't......but at least he wasn't pandering!

    "VICTORY (and defeat) in Iraq defined.....E-A S I L I Y!"........So you disagree with General Petreaus?

    "A heartbeat away is a heartbeat away".....What a ridiculous assertion!

    The reality of the failure of the polticial strategy "McCain = Bush" in moving independents towards Obama is obvious.

    I know you don't remember, MikeH, but I told you I supported McCain in 2000, voted for him in the primaries, and felt he was the better man for the job....My Republican brethren felt otherwise. That's democracy.

    But as an American who supports all peoples' struggle to be free, I saw the wisdom in seeing Iraq through to its only moral end and, along with McCain, supported the President's decision to follow General Petraeus' anti-insurgency plan including an increase in troops....the surge.

    I wanted McCain as President in did not happen then.

    Not this time. McCain came back from the dead and is the same man with the same principles and approach to governance he had in 2000. I am proud to support him. He has shown his devotion to the good of our country as a young man faced with death and torture and as a Senator faced with partisan gridlock and hatred.

    McCain is not pandering. He is politically savy just like Obama has been with his base....the difference is that I am a member of McCain's base and agree with his worldview. You are a member of Obama's base and agree with his worldview. That reality causes us to characterize the opponent's political machinations in a negative light.

    You are entitled to your opinion.

    In regards to Petraeus, I do not believe victory has yet been achieved, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, we have not been defeated either. Senator Reid was wrong to say the war was lost, it was not. Obama was wrong to say our increased presence would make the civil war worse, it did not. McCain, Bush and Petraeus were right in supporting an increased military intervention in 2006/2007 to make victory possible....perhaps in 2010, or 2011....I have faith that our ally in Iraq will flourish and NOT threaten Israel along with Iran and not allowing AlQueda access to the vast financial and natural resources including a WMD program.

    Just think if Saddam Hussein was still playing chicken with us today?....Not only would we have Iran to worry about supplying the terrorists with WMD or blowing up Israel, but Saddam Hussein would also be making mischief and perhaps have his WMD program back up and viable for a hit on one of our cities....Remember, he did have ties to Hezbollah and paid the families of suicide islamic terrorists in Israel.

    That is the reality both politically and in Iraq. Obama is a pol just like McCain and will use the issues to his advantage....from the war to the economy....that's fine in a campaign.....go for it and let the people decide! I did not approve of it when the campaign was not going on and I feel that is what the democrats did (unpatriotically IMO) in 2005, 2006 and 2007....And they lost any respect I may have had for them then.

    I love the effete elitist stuff....It's working so well.....

    "John McCain used an appearance before a blue-collar crowd near Youngstown, Ohio, to take a class-tinged shot at Barack Obama tonight.

    "'He says he's siding with the people just before he flew off for a fundraiser in Hollywood with Barbra Streisand,' McCain said of his rival. 'Let me tell you my friends, there's no place I'd rather be than right here with the working men and women of Ohio.'

    "McCain used the line as his close at an airport hangar rally, drawing loud applause."

    Almost 30K/plate of cold chicken and a rendition of EVERGREEN to get money into the collection plate for the church of

    I don't recall even any of the W fundraisers being that steep!

    Obama does need the money though....he did break his promise to accept public financing and the polls are tight.


    From Mike might just help explain why it didn't literally make you cringe when someone who COULD be president in as little as five months couldn't answer such a pathetically simple question.

    Mike did you "cringe" when obama said: To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists."

    "I had learned not to care. I blew a few smoke rings, remembering those years. Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack, though. ..."

    "I can no more disown (Jeremiah Wright) than I can disown the black community."

    "The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person..."

    "That’s just how white folks will do you."

    "You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

    Did you "cringe" when you found how he was a friend to Ayers and that Ayers made these great American quotes:

    ''I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough.''

    "Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that's where it's really at."

    "Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon."

    Any "cringing" from these gems from his wife?...For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country, because it feels like hope is making a comeback.

    "Earlier in my college career, there was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the Black community I was somehow obligated to this community and would utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit this community first and foremost."

    I think if you "cringed" anymore from these enlightening quotes from your man, and his friends and wife you'd find yourself using braille...

    Well Wolverine, talk about dishonesty......why don't you try breaking down your veritable blizzard of quotes, most of which did NOT come from Obama.

    I'll be glad to defend the ones that came from Obama......The others are relevant only to the smear merchants.

    I'd hate to be judged by every comment everyone I ever associated wiith made at some point in their lives....Nor would I wish that on you!

    Also Wolverine, every time someone brings up Michelle Obama's "proud" comment, I ask what about essentially the SAME comment made by John McCain (not once, but TWICE!).....and I've yet to get a rational response.

    Give me a break!

    But Cee, General Petreaus said the word "victory" is not relevant to this particular conflict. You forgot to address that, even though HIS comment was central to the point I made.

    Also, while you continue to defend the premise of going into Iraq....while bringing unprovable hypotheticals into the always fail to address the COST......which was always the point to any and all criticism of the decision to invade. No American of any consequence has ever defended or mourned for Saddam.

    You may believe that the ultimate COST is not central to any consequential decision, but I sure as hell do!

    Mike H..The truth hurts don't it? They're all true. Every last one of 'em. Yeah, and I wouldn't want to be judged either with every comment or quote I ever made but unfortunately obama made them (along with his friends and family) and he's the one running for president, not me.

    His quotes are so scary (for someone running for president) that even you want to deny he ever said them. He did, and not a one of them taken out of context either. They are what he said. Period.

    As far as "smearing" I think that would only apply if I was running a news station or broadcasting them to the world in some matter, but I only put them out there for you to see and compare to what made you cringe to what Palin said.

    Wolverine: "MikeH...The truth hurts don't it? They're all true. Every last one of 'em"......."along with his friends and family"

    You just spoke out of both sides of your mouth by claiming he made comments you then admitted he DIDN'T make.....Sorry Wolf, but friends and family DON'T count.

    I told you I'd be glad to discuss comments OBAMA made.....but I don't give a flying **** what William Aires or Jeramiah Wright said!

    If you want to have an honest discussion, we can do that, but what you're doing is dirty and dishonest to it's core.

    You just spoke out of both sides of your mouth by claiming he made comments you then admitted he DIDN'T make...MikeH...

    WHERE did I say he DIDN'T make them? Come on Mike you can do much better than that. I NEVER said he didn't make them. My whole reply was saying that he made them, and they're ALL true.

    If you meant my statement about "smearing" I assumed you meant because the statements made by him were so horrible that you considered that smearing. Maybe telling the truth about someone's past statements and putting them out for all to see you would consider "smearing" which might be construed that way by some.

    I wouldn't repeat those comments to others if it was a loved one who had said them because then I think it would be considered "smearing" their rep, but like I also said obama is not my "loved" one, and he's running for president, not me.

    And as for your very poor analogy about what McCain said while being tortured for 5 years, and to what Michelle obama said while living a very privileged life isn't even close to being the same, and you know it.

    I was in an American prison for only one little short month, and believe me the thoughts that go through your mind while in there are not even close to what your true thoughts are. Doubt, hatred, bitterness, etc. and the single biggest thing is that you feel you are ALONE VS the world. Which essentially you are.

    Now compare my small amount of time in an American prison to what McCain went through, and than add on the fact that he STILL STAYED in for another 3 and a half years when he could have got out because of HIS men. His AMERICAN men...

    Go further with that comparison to Michelle obama who lived a charmed life going to school, getting a great education (Harvard) and then spurting out that ONLY when obama was nominated was she "proud of her country."

    Christ, if I had a tenth of her upbringing and money I'd be shouting out everyday how proud I was of my country! And, don't give me that shit that because of her skin color she had it rough, because in my hood I had it a hundred times worse. A hundred times worse...

    And last but not least, if you think obama hanging with the likes of Wright and Aires are of no consequence to you then man you are in denial, because we ALL have choices to make when we're old enough to make them, and if I made the same type of choices that obama made then I would have been in prison for life.

    Same people were on my street, but I could tell right from wrong, and I'm not running for president...

    olverine: "My whole reply was saying that he made them, and they're all true."

    Except for the ones made by William Ayers.

    I've already told you I don't have a problem with a single quote that you made above that were actually made by OBAMA, but I reject and and all all "associations" as unfair and smears. Now which quote do you want me to discuss? I've already discussed some of them on this very very blog.

    And your rejection of McCain's similar remark to Michelle's is as lame as all the rest of them. What McCain said is that "he wasn't proud of his country until he was deprived of it's company". In other words, he wasn't proud of his country UNTIL he was imprisoned away from it, and it took imprisonment for him to become proud of his country.....yet you find THAT defensible while an off-the-cuff and rather innocent remark by Michelle is somehow indefensible....VERY telling! I as in the military, and I was proud of my country BEFORE I served abroad.

    Also spare your lame character don't have a clue what obsticles Michelle Obama or anyone else had to overcome to get to here they are. This is all about personal character judgments you aren't qualified to make with you, isn't it?

    Obama never "hung" with Ayers. He happened to serve on the same board. Wright was his pastor. I would personally tolerate NO ONE judging me for any such similar associations.

    Finally Wolverine, I don't reject my friends because they happen to have some extreme views. It takes more than that for me because I'm not that damned shallow. It shocks me that you would think a potential president should be as shallow as that either.

    MikeH: This is all about personal character judgments you aren't qualified to make with you, isn't it?

    You're telling me that nobody makes character judgments when they're thinking about who to vote for? Are you kidding me!? It's ALL about personal character judgments when anybody votes...Can they be believed?...Does their PAST show anything about the person that would make one vote for or against the candidate?...Who did the candidate associatte with?...What did they do for their country?...Its ALL about what the candidate is about...ALL...

    Finally Wolverine, I don't reject my friends because they happen to have some extreme views. It takes more than that for me because I'm not that damned shallow. It shocks me that you would think a potential president should be as shallow as that either...

    I LOVE this one! To you being shallow is staying with somebody who preaches that all whites are bad. That America is the cause of all the problems in the world. This not only from his "pastor" but from his MENTOR.

    So Mike what does it take for you to reject your friends...A serial killer maybe? If he only killed one that would be okay, but serial you'd have to think about it?...Oh, and by the way, your man obama DID reject his friend and pastor afterall didn't he? Now why would he do that?

    Man, my father was wrong all those years when he told me to stay away from the biggest dealer on my block. Hey the guy liked me, but according to you just because he had some "extreme ideas" I should have hung with him. What was I thinking?

    Yeah, I agree. Both Michelle obama and John McCain are equally patriotic. After all, according to you, when McCain almost died on the first carrier he was on and then stayed on and got shot down 6 months later leaving from another carrier he didn't love his country. He was just flying for the heck of it because he hated it.

    Good lesson Mike. I learned an awful lot today:

    1) No matter HOW BAD someone is stay with them no matter what.


    2) People who join the armed forces aren't proud of their country.

    Hey, didn't you join?

    This link is to a very long and detailed article about Wooten/Palin troopergate through the gubernatorial election..

    "Troopers eventually investigated 13 issues and found four in which Wooten violated policy or broke the law or both:

    • Wooten used a Taser on his stepson.

    • He illegally shot a moose.

    • He drank beer in his patrol car on one occasion.

    • He told others his father-in-law would "eat a f'ing lead bullet" if he helped his daughter get an attorney for the divorce."

    This is the time line, published on 07/08/08, that sums it all up.


    Alaska State Trooper Mike Wooten is the ex-brother-in-law of Gov. Sarah Palin. Here is a chronology of developments in a trooper investigation into accusations against him. The investigation occurred before Palin became governor. It wrapped up around the same time she announced her candidacy.


    4/11: McCann gets a domestic violence protective order against Wooten and files for divorce. Chuck Heath, the father of McCann and Palin, alerts troopers about the restraining order. A neighbor of McCann and Wooten calls troopers with concerns about Wooten, including alcohol abuse accusations.

    4/12: A trooper captain orders Wooten to obey the protective order and turn in his weapons, badge and patrol car when he's off duty.

    4/27: Troopers open an investigation into Wooten.

    8/10: Palin e-mails Col. Julia Grimes, then head of the troopers, with additional allegations against Wooten and calls him a "ticking timebomb."

    10/10: Chuck Heath writes Grimes saying that the investigation is dragging on too long and Wooten is "a dangerous person, a loose cannon, ready to explode."

    10/18: Palin announces she is running for governor.

    10/29: Troopers issue memo of findings on Wooten. Wall investigated 13 issues and substantiated three.


    1/17: Grimes re-interviews two witnesses.

    1/31: Wooten and McCann's divorce finalized.

    2/1: Grimes substantiates a fourth allegation.

    3/1: Grimes issues a letter suspending Wooten for 10 days and warning that the discipline is "a last chance for corrective action" and that further occurrences "will not be tolerated."

    8/22: Palin wins Republican primary, defeating incumbent Gov. Frank Murkowski.

    9/5: Wooten's suspension reduced to five days after union files a grievance.

    11/7 Palin wins general election.

    Sources: Alaska State Troopers investigative files; court records; interviews.

    The information here is fact as opposed to opinion.

    Since Wooten is still employed as a trooper you would have to believe that after firing Moeghan (?) for refusing to axe an innocent man she replaced him with a crony who also didn't fire him. My mind is not nimble enough to twist into that.

    From the further details, taken from OFFICIAL records, I would say Wooten, who has been married twice more and divorced once more since then, is not someone who should be be given the authority and force that a trooper has.

    This is the first time I looked into this other than catching sound bites and I am surprised that he was not dismissed before the election for governor.

    "...the old cliche has some truth, a leopard can't change its stripes."-by Cee

    Your comments have been so spot-on in this thread it's almost embarrassinly nitpicky to point out that leopards have spots, tigers and NY Yankees have stripes.

    Cecelia Darling,

    I'm reluctant to correct one of your posts.

    Your comments are always insightful, well reasoned and excellently written.

    Your analyses have consistently showed a depth of understanding and preciseness, an ability to think outside the normal parameters of perception and the experitse essential to cross-correlate information from seemingly unrelated sources and methods.

    Yet somehow, you totally misinterpretated the reality of the situation when you posted the following in a comment regarding the dear departed edwardrolberboy:

    "Well, my guess is your girlfriends are just acting out of necessity."

    Girlfriends???? What were you thinking??? Girlfriends??? What were you drinking??? Girlfriends?!?!?!

    Reality check, please :-)

    Mike H,

    As a veteran, your comments regarding Sen. McCain's remarks, which you misquote, about how he viewed the USA during his captivity crosses the line into perfidy.

    Ramjet, I don't usually gulp down the bait hook, line and sinker like I did with your "correction" to Cecelia. Very well done.

    As for equating Michelle Obama's comment re pride in America to McCain's statement that he really only knew how much he loved America was when he was denied it I agree with you completely.

    I have a somewhat parallel epiphany of my own. I only realized how much I loved and cherished my husband of forty years after he died and was no longer with me. I thought I loved him before he died but I know more every day since he's gone how much I do love him.

    That is a big difference. To have driven home in a painful way how callously you took something for b/c you had it is quite different from suddenly getting religion on your death bed, so to speak.

    Grammie, ....Mike knows exactly what McCain meant too. Like I said, there really is no comparison between the two quotes, but for the love of me he insists on saying they are equal.

    Your analogy was perfect though, and something I believe we all have gone through at sometime or another (losing a love one, and then coming to terms with how much you really loved them when they are gone for good...I lost both my parents within a short time of each other) but at the same time I never met anyone in my life who, after living in this great country of ours for over 40 years, said that for the first time in their life they were proud of their country. At least not anybody I know of who truly loves their country. Themselves yes, but their

    Ramjet said it best about Mike, and "perfidy" was only his polite way of making his point.

    It's en easy deconstruct:

    Sen. McCain was critcizing himself, not the country.

    Michelle Obama was criticizing the country, not herself.

    "BAGHDAD -- The night before Gen. David Petraeus turned over command here, a group of senior officers gathered at Camp Victory to say goodbye. It was like a football team's testimonial dinner at the end of a winning season: There were steaks and baked potatoes and a highlight film of the general's 20-month command, scored with rock music, called 'Surge of Hope.'

    "The signature line of the video was a statement Petraeus made to Congress when he began what seemed to many people like mission impossible: 'Hard is not hopeless.' That was his closing comment, too, as he relinquished command in an elaborate ceremony yesterday at the gilded Al Faw Palace. But now, he said, Iraq was 'still hard but hopeful.'"

    Those are the words of someone trying to achieve something POSITIVE in Iraq instead of people like MikeH who gave up hope on Iraq after the removal of the islamic terrorist Saddam Hussein.

    How silly it is to try to use General Petraeus' conservative and measured words regarding Iraq as an endorcement to surrender and retreat! Victory is still possible in Iraq as the terrorists are kept from seizing control and using Iraq as a refuge and resource.

    The radical anti-America left should hang their heads in shame for their behvior in 2006/2007 calling for the destruction of Iraq and calling General Petraeus, "General Betray-Us." Obama, their leader, was one of the chief critics of the surge and he has been proven to have had POOR JUDGEMENT.

    Cover that story, Keith Olbermann!

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