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    Olbermann Watch, "persecuting" Keith since 2004


    October 20, 2008
    Countdown w/ Olbermann, Oct 20 2008: OlbyWatch Recap

    "COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" (8:00 P.M.-9:00 P.M. ET)

    Host: Keith "Czechoslovakia" Olbermann

    Guests:

    • Richard Wolffe, UK exchange student
    • Clarence Page, giggling OlbyParrot
    • Lawrence O'Donnell, aka Crazy Larry
    • Eugene "Geno" Robinson, Obama tank-dweller

    We have to tip our cyber hats to the contributors who helped put together this recap. The infamous, deplorable Keith Olbermann has lately been especially deplorable, and tonight was no exception. It's an Obamapalooza of attacks on McCain/Palin on tonight's Hour of Spin, and--worst of all--the inauguration of the new, improved Special Komment 2.0--now with Lanolin! The Special Komments are so special that Monkeymann is going to serve them up every night until the election. Happy, happy, joy, joy.

    Party Down with Katy Tur!


    MikeC:
    5: The McCain Campaign is "rethinking" bringing up Reverend Wright. Ach, no! Wright Card! Secrets and Lies! Upper-right graphic: "Fear and Distraction," image of McCain looking to his right with squinted eyes, Palin looking up and to the right (aloof, perhaps, eh Keith?). Merkle says the campaign is trying to paint Obama and his supporters "as different and dangerous." Lower-third graphic: "15 Days And Counting." Oralmann quoted Rick Davis without playing a clip of today's conference call. On OlbyPlanet, audio and video ruin the lie. So, they never see the light of 8PM. Once he was finished with the Davis quote, time to snark. Clip of McCain on "Fox News Sunday." Watergate! [Ding!] Rick Davis also appeared on "a conservative talk radio program," but Monkeymann wouldn't say which one. Bringing up John Lewis is bad.

    Joe the Plumber attack. Clip of McCain with small business owners in Missouri...a relatively long clip by Hour of Spin standards. Obama was at a rally in Tampa, Florida, with members of the Tampa Bay Rays. That means they're on his side! Yay! Clip of Hillary with Obama in Orlando. Now, she's good again on OlbyPlanet. Finally, four minutes in, it was time for the Wolffe Man to appear. New lower-third: "Secrets & Lies." Wolffie: "There's nothing serious about small donations unless you think the internet is a secret connection of tubes." Ooh, a Ted Stevens attack. Moving ahead in the clip now. Keith and his buddy laugh about "spread the wealth." Yes, isn't that absurd, Bathman? Great Thanks.

    Next, the "pervasive," "precise," and "startling" Colin Powell endorsement of Obama. There was much jubilance on OlbyPlanet. Lower-third: "Powell Broker." Clip of Powell announcing the endorsement on "Meet the Press." Keith snidely proclaims McCain is "obviously disappointed" by the endorsement. New lower-third: "Powellfull." Clarence Page dropped in to Olby's playpen for a 4 1/2 minute agreementfest. The last time viewers of "The Factor" saw Page, he was claiming Fox News is far-right [Ding!]. Clarence thinks the endorsement will "have an impact on those undecided voters." Peggy Noonan! Christopher Buckley! At the end, Keith giggled, "By the way, you had me going when you said, uh, 'son of...' I didn't know where you were going after that, but um, thank goodness..." And I couldn't hear the last part because Clarence guffawed loudly. "Family show, Chris...Keith." Oopsie. "Great Thanks for your time, Clarence."

    #4: Fat Ass: "What kind of phone call could surpass the awesomeness that is Countdown?" Uh, a call from my friend saying that you had been fired? That'd be great. But that wasn't it. "Would you believe you may get a phone call from Sarah Palin?" Damn, I was hoping it'd be the fired call. Oh well, OlbyWatch can dream. Upper-right graphic: "Can You Fear Me Now?", image of McCain with an obsolete cell phone superimposed in his hand. Robocalls![Ding!] Lower-third: "Call Wading." Quote! [Ding!] Fox Noise! [Ding!] G. Gordon Liddy is "McCain's washed-up terrorist." Palin "Real Americans from Real America" reference. Palin clip on the robocalls [Ding!]. OlbyChoir music from...I mean clip of Obama talking about "misleading TV ads." Amen-ish crowd response. Slovenly: "What the hell is *this* new robocall [Ding!]?" It was a Palin robocall LINK. Blue blog source: Talking Points Mummo (intentional misspelling based on previous OlbyFlub).

    The Factor:
    # 3 Story, sock puppet "Geno" Robinson tells Olbermann how poorly Sarah Palin did on SNL. Funny, seems she did pretty well for someone who received the script days before her appearance and did not write the script. If her appearance didn't go well, isn't that the fault of the writers on SNL? How exactly did the go poorly when SNL had the highest ratings SNL has had since they actually had a cast that anyone cared about?


    MikeC:
    #2: The Media Matters Minute. Worse was Mark Halperin of The Page on Time.com. Blue blog source: TVNewser. I couldn't find a source that brought up the Midwest Democracy Network questionaire *and* what Halperin said yesterday. Either way, how dare Mark dispute Lord Obama. Obamamann went on to provide PR for his savior. Cherry-picking!

    Worser was Brian Kilmeade, John Dowd, and Rudy Giuliani. Blue blog sources: Medium Rare Story and Think Propaganda. Fixed News! Fixed News! [Ding!] [Ding!] Olbermahn used the supposed Sylvester the cat voice for Giuliani. "Way to execute the Talking Points [Ding!], boys, but hello! You guys own enough reporters. (raising gotcha paper): Hop to it!"

    Worst was "Roger Ailes of Fox Noise[Ding!]." Blue blog source: TVNewser. Ailes "is going to into the Broadcasting & Cable Hall of Fame...presumably near the bust of the guy who made the commercials louder than the actual shows." After a rapid reading of the quote Stevie K. provided, Oralmann snarked back: "Ailes, of course, never *hired* anybody like that at Fox...never practiced it himself...but he has *enormous respect for people who do!* Roger 'Do as I respect, not as I do' Ailes! Today's Worst..." Yada yada blah.

    #1: Another ratings ploy of a Special Education Komment, which Oralmann pimped out on his blog two hours earlier. Thanks, but no thanks. Supposed indignation and faux outrage were on display for seven long minutes and 41 longer seconds. Psst, Olby, John McCain and Sarah Palin don't listen to you. You can stop now. Thanks a lot, bro.


    Merkle923:
    BTW, Olbermoronn is still lying about "violent comments" made at Sarah Palin's rally (2 weeks ago?) as noted in his Speshul Spitfest.


    SPECIAL EDUCATiON KOMMENT BY KEITH ORALMANN:

    I have frequently insisted I would never turn the platform of the Special Comment into a regular feature.

    But as these last two weeks of this extraordinary, and extraordinarily disturbing, presidential campaign project out in front of us, I fear I may have to temporarily amend that presumption.

    I hope it will be otherwise, but I suspect this will be the first of nightly pieces, most shorter than this... until further notice.

    And thus a Special Comment tonight about the last five days of the divisive, ugly, paranoid bleatings of this Presidential race, culminating in the sliming of Colin Powell for his endorsement of Senator Obama.

    There was once a very prominent sportswriter named Dick Young whose work, with ever-increasing frequency, became peppered with references to "my America."

    "I can't believe this is happening in My America"... -- "we do not tolerate these people in My America" -- "this man does not belong in my America".

    His America gradually revealed itself.

    Insular. Isolationist. Backwards-looking. Mindlessly flag-waving. Racist. No second chances. A million rules, but only for the other guy.

    Dick Young died in 1987, but he has been re-born in the presidential campaign as it has unfolded since last Thursday night.

    In that time, Governor Sarah Palin, Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann, McCain spokesperson Nancy Pfotenhauer, and Rush Limbaugh, have revealed that there is a measurable portion of this country that is not interested in that which the vast majority view as democracy or equality or opportunity.

    They want only... control -- and they want the rest of us, symbolically, perhaps physically... out.

     Governor Palin:

    "We believe that the best of America is not all in Washington D.C.," you told a fund-raiser in North Carolina last Thursday, to kick off this orgy of condescending elitism.

     "We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard working very patriotic, very pro-America areas of this great nation."

     Governor, your prejudice is overwhelming.

    It is not just "pockets" of this country that are "pro-America" Governor.

    America... is "pro-America."

    And the "Real America" of yours, Governor, is where people at your rallies shout threats of violence, against other Americans, and you say nothing about them or to them.

    What you are seeing is not patriotism, Governor.

    What has surrounded you since your nomination, has been the echoing shout of mob rule.

     Indeed, that shout has echoed to Minnesota, where the next day an unstable Congresswoman named Michele Bachmann added to the ugly cry.

     "I wish the American media would take a great look at the views of the people in Congress and find out, are they pro-America, or anti-America. I think people would love to see an expose' like that."

    For nearly two years, Ms. Bachmann, who made her first political bones by keeping the movie "Aladdin" from being shown at a Minnesota Charter School because she thought it promoted paganism and witchcraft, has had a seat in the government of this nation, a seat from which she has spewed the most implausible, hateful, narrow-minded garbage imaginable.

    Well, Congresswoman, you have gotten that "expose'" you wanted, have you not?

    Though not perhaps in the way you imagined.

    Since giving voice to your remarkable delusion that there are members of Congress who are "anti-America," and the extraordinary tap-dance of sleaze and innuendo about Senator Obama which followed...

    ...the challenger for your house Seat, Elwyn Tinklenberg, has been inundated by donations -- 700 thousand dollars in the three days after you spoke.

    Because the America you perceive, Congresswoman -- with its goblins and ghosts and vast unseen hordes of traitors and fellow travelers and Senators who won't ban "Aladdin" -- exists only in your head, and in the heads of the others who must rationalize the failures in their own lives and of their own policies as somebody else's fault -- as a conspiracy to deny them an America of exclusionism and religious orthodoxy and prejudice, about which they must accuse, and murmur, and shout threats, and cleave the nation into pro-America and anti-America."

    And back it comes to the McCain campaign.

    And Senator McCain's talking head, Ms. Pfotenhauer, who on this very network Saturday, and seemingly without the slightest idea that dismissive prejudice dripped from every word, analyzed the race in Virginia.

    "I can tell you that the Democrats have just come in from the District of Columbia and moved into northern Virginia," she said. "But the rest of the state, 'real Virginia,' if you will, I think will be very responsive to Senator McCain's message."

    Again, a toxic message...

    The parts of the country that agree with Nancy Pfotenhauer... are real -- the others, not.

    Ms. Pfotenhauer, why not go the distance on this one?

    It was Senator McCain's own brother who called that part of Virginia nearest Washington "communist country."

    Cut to the chase, Madam.

    No matter the intended comic hyperbole of Joe McCain...

    This is the point -- isn't it?

    Leave out the real meaning of "Communism," Madam -- Joe McCain reduced it to a buzz-word; it has no more true definition right now than does "Socialism," or the phrase "a man who sees America like you and I see America."

    It's about us... and them.

    The pro-... and the anti.

    Never mind, Madam, that the bi-secting of this country you would happily inspire, means taking a tiny crack in a dam and not repairing it but burrowing into it.

    It is not enough that Senator McCain and Senator Obama might differ.

    One must be real and the other false.

    One must be pro-America and the other anti.

    Go back and -- as your boss Rick Davis said today -- "re-think," Mr. McCain's insistence not to drag the sorry bones of Jeremiah Wright into this campaign.

    And whatever you do, Ms. Pfotenhauer, allow no one enough time to think... about the widening crack in the dam.

    And now all of this comes together to attack Colin Powell.

    "Secretary Powell says his endorsement is not about race," writes Rush Limbaugh... the grand wizard of this school of reactionary non-thought.

    "OK, fine. I am now researching his past endorsements to see if I can find all the inexperienced, very liberal, white candidates he has endorsed. I'll let you know what I come up with."

    It is not conceivable that Powell might reject McCain for the politics of hate and character assassination, or just for policy.

    In the closed, sweaty world of the blind allegiances of Limbaugh -- one of "us" who endorses one of "them," must be doing so for some other blind allegiance, like the color of skin.

    The answer to this primordial muck, must be addressed to one man only.

    Senator McCain -- where are you?

    I disagree with you on virtually every major point of policy and practice.

    And yet I do not think you "anti-America." I would not hesitate to join you in time of crisis in defense of this country.

    Fortunately you did not echo this chorus of base hatred.

    But neither have you repudiated it.

    What is "pro-America", Senator?

    Is it pro-America to call a man a racist because he endorses a different candidate?

    Senator, you have based your campaign on many premises, but the foremost (and the most nearly admirable) of all of them, have been the pitches about "reaching across the aisle," and putting, as your ubiquitous banners reed, "country first."

    So when Colin Powell endorses your opponent, you say nothing as your supporters and proxies paint him in this "Anti-America" frame and place him in Governor Palin's un-real America.

    Senator McCain -- did not General Powell just "reach across the aisle?" Did he not, in his own mind at least, "put country first?"

    Is it not your responsibility, Senator, to, if not applaud, then at least quiet those in your half of our fractured political equation?

    Is it not your responsibility, Senator, to say "enough" to Republican smears without end?

    Is it not your responsibility, Senator, to insist that, win or lose, you will not be party to a campaign that devolves into hatred and prejudice and divisiveness?

    And Senator McCain, if it is not your responsibility... whose is it?

    And that's The Hour of Spin for this, the 898th day since the declaration that "Karl Rove will in fact be indicted". Great thanks to our OlbyWatch recappers who did such an assiduously good job tonight with a thoroughly thankless task!

    UPDATE: An OlbyWatch exclusive! Dramatic reading of the Special Education Komment by the OlbyRobot:


    Posted by johnny dollar | Permalink | Comments (24) | | View blog reactions

    24 Comments

    Great You're Welcome, Johnny. I e-mailed you the first of 10 OlbyRobot dramatic readings in a row.

    This is just mindblowing that Ko is still on the air. He should be fired immedaitly for this one, cause its so obvious he's an idiot.

    Anyone with half a brain can read that special comment and depsite all the names he throws out there, KO is talking about himself. Everyday he goes on the smear campaign towards one party, their supporters, and even another cable news channel.

    Everyday he spreads lies and hate with one goal, get rid of republicans, get rid of republican supporters, and get rid of Fox News.

    But whoa wait a minute, in Olby world these things are OK if he does it. It's his job, his white knight duty to expose all these lunny's. But wait, everything he's blaiming on McCain, Limbaugh, and Palin in his special comment, he does himself.

    He's still beating that story of supporters yelling "kill him" at rally. Now it it looks like that never happened.

    So welcome to Olby World, where fiction lives and demands action being taken on something that never happened.

    Welcome to Olby World where McCain now has to apoligise for any comment made by anyone at a rally. Welcome to Olby World where Rush Limbaugh brought up an interesting topic, but the mear fact he did makes him racist. Welcome to Olby World where anyone with opinions like Bachmann is immediatly LABELED as narrow-minded for having different views.

    Yes welcome to Olby World, where he smeared others when he's guilty of the same damn thing.

    Oralmann's SEK included the lines: "It is not just 'pockets' of this country that are "pro-America" Governor. America... is 'pro-America.'"
    That seems to be the Obama-Biden meme. Joe Biden said this at a rally on Friday. The clip was shown in tonight's "Reality Check" segment on "The Factor."
    http://tinyurl.com/5r9jn2
    The Biden bite is shown with 2:47 left in the clip, and discussion of what he said, and the Palin clip he was responding to, begins with 3:14 left. Before that, Jesse Watters ambushes former Merrill Lynch CEO Stanley O'Neal. Then, Palin and Biden. After that:
    2:25 remaining: Attacks on Joe the Plumber on MSNBC from David Gregory and David Shuster (ignoring Keith, of course; his name cannot be uttered nor clips shown/heard), and an excerpt of Friday's Talking Points Memo from "Factor" fill-in Laura Ingraham.
    1:20 remaining: "Family Guy" implied the Nazis were McCain-Palin supporters in last night's "Road to Germany" episode. (I'm used to attacks like this from "Family Guy." I didn't like it, but wasn't surprised.)
    0:48 remaining: "Bold Fresh" update.
    Describing that rundown was a tangent worth going off on.

    If you told me a decade ago that a so called "news channel" would regularly report and put down another news channel as "News" I would have laughed.
    One can't help to wonder if this idiotic child will ever grow up and see what is really going on in the world.

    In this NYTimes piece (written by good old biased KO butt-buddy BRIAN STELTER) is mainly about Maddow, here are TWO choice nuggets:

    :...For years Mr. Olbermann, a vocal critic of the Bush administration, had pushed the network to install a thematically similar program in the 9 p.m. hour, and in August MSNBC decided to replace “Verdict With Dan Abrams” with Ms. Maddow."

    "...While Mr. Olbermann watches Mr. O’Reilly’s show on a monitor embedded in his desk,"


    Fresh Face on Cable, Sharp Rise in Ratings By BRIAN STELTER
    Published: October 20, 2008

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/arts/television/21madd.html?8dpc

    kb,

    If you have such issues with Fox News (legitimately so), you should really try expressing it to them directly instead of this blog. But I agree, it is absolutely FRUSTRATING to hear all this hogwash being thrown at the eager-to-believe-anything public by the likes of Hannity, Ingraham, and Reilly. (such as the documentary shown last Sunday slamming Planned Parenthood.. but I suppose we can all pull a Palin and have unprotected premarital sex and get knocked up at 17 and drop out of school? you're right.. planned parenthood is a bad thing! damn liberals...)

    The media needs to do a better job of holding itself responsible and report relevant information which benefits the American people and not the right wing radicals who adopt tactics reminiscent of Pee-Wee's Secret Words of the Day (maverick.. *WILD APPLAUSE* .. "pal"ing around with terrorist.. *JUMP AROUND FRANTICALLY*.. socialism.. *EVERYONE SCREAM!!!*)

    The crowd chanting along to Palin and McCain's dangerous smears and jeers are the very people who are going to get raped by their policies the most. Will they then be open to the idea government funded rape kits?

    Bob, we have a problem here.

    With Obama's spread-the-wealth spending
    The tax rate will be extending
    Fueled by the rich
    Ain't that a bitch?
    Those welfare checks won't be ending

    I think it's safe to say we have a new [Ding] on OlbyPlanet. "Kill him!" [Ding!]

    So I suppose the answer to that would be, let's give more to the rich than low-middle class.. because then and only then, would it not be considered welfare or socialism.. right?

    hmm.. that sounds familiar..

    "I cannot support a tax cut in which so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate among us at the expense of middle-class Americans who most need tax relief." - McCain in '01.. before he flipflopped and started adopting the radical policies of the neoconservative fat cats.

    I'm listening to my OlbyRobot reading right now. "Sorry bones of Jeremiah Wright"? Are you freaking kidding me? I guess Keith thinks the Rev is a swell guy.

    No, the Reverend is not the posterchild of someone who is "swell". But you know who is? Thomas Muthee. Am I right? Can I get an Amen? Witchhunting rocks!

    Speaking of Sarah Palin and the "pal"ing around of political figures.. does she really have the authority to question the patriotism and level of American-ness of voters by the size of the town you live in?

    Perhaps the media should truly be unbiased and question Todd's membership in the Alaskan Independence Party, which he only flipped over to the Republican Party when Sarah decided to get all political and mavericky on him. Shall we look to the founder of AIP for inspiration?

    Yes.. Let's.

    "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions." Joe Vogler

    God bless.. hold up.. WTF?!

    "let's give more to the rich than low-middle class"


    ###
    Who's giving successful Americans anything? It is now acceptable thinking to some people that decreasing federal taxes is GIVING something to someone. This is a total reversal of correct thinking and logic. Taxes are TAKEN from the money people earn that is used for the support of government activity. Period.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html

    Read the Wall Street Journal analysis of the current Obama tax plan. In disincentivises trying to earn more money through hard work because as a person earns more, the actual rates, the tax deductions, rebate checks and other paraphernalia Obama has twisted into his plan he propagandizes as "tax cuts for 95% of the public" decrease in benefit, even at low incomes of 40-60K per year. The middle class is once again going to be screwed (as the rich flee to tax shelters, corporations that want to avoid his taxes do the same of leave our shores for cheaper labor and overhead in Asia) and the poor get their payoffs for being good, reliable constituents.

    The real problem for Obama is the huge bailout package that will mean huge deficits AND the lower revenues his plan is going to cause. My prediction is that he will then claim a "national emergency" and break his promises regarding spending and tax reduction.

    Richard Epstein is absolutely right on about Obama's ideology: "[Obama] is in favor of progressive individual taxes and high corporate taxes. It is as though the U.S. does not have to compete for labor and capital in global markets. My fear is that with his strong egalitarian bent, he has not internalized the lesson that high rates do not offset declining revenues. Thus, even before we get to the added bells and whistles of the modern welfare state--windfall profits taxes, ethanol subsidies, health care--an Obama administration could lock us into a downward spiral by ignoring the simple fundamentals of sound governance.

    http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2008/10/20/obama-chicago-election-oped-cx_re_1021epstein.html


    I actually do agree with you that taxes should not be seen as something that must be given back to the public. I've never had an issue with paying taxes, even as I've seen almost 40% of my bonus check being deducted of various taxes at all different levels of government. It wasn't fun seeing only a portion of my check making its way into my pocket, but I understand its my civic duty to pay taxes since I do enjoy freshly paved roads and parks. My issue lies in with the way this is spent by those in the gov't liable for spending our hard-earned money.

    That is why I find it preposterous that 44-46% of Americans are fighting so hard to give back so much in taxes to the wealthiest 1%. When our country is in over our heads in debt and unemployment is skyrocketing, is it really necessary to continue the richest of the rich-favoring policies of Bush that have unquestionably failed us?

    I look for a candidate who is fiscally responsible and will balance our budgets once again. I do believe though that b/c of the current economic crisis, low-middle income families need a little help from the gov't by perhaps being allowed to keep a larger portion of their income to pay their mortgage and feed their families. If going back to Clinton-era tax policies is what it takes, I will be first in line to pay a higher taxes if it means the betterment of America. If giving up a bigger chunk of my paycheck to help out other Americans to bring up the standard of living for the country as a whole isn't patriotic, I really don't know what is..

    Hmm...that's funny....

    I've never gotten a job from a poor person before.

    I'll never understand why half of America villifies a successful person. (These people are currently known as the supporters of today's Democratic Party that has been successfully hijacked by the Left Wing. JFK actually supported tax reductions.) It's a destructive, narcissistic influence that only decreases job creation. (Unless, of course, you move farther to the Left and prescribe to the Marxist line of thought where jobs are created by the State. *News flash* this was tried last century and failed miserably causing misery and tens of millions of deaths.)

    The current downward trajectory of the stock market had nothing to do with tax rates. (If anyone in the media had any honesty - this rules out Olby for a number of reasons - they would know that the economic blame falls on liberal social engineering of bad lending, government-backed financial risks, and Wall Street deregulation cronyism. But to do so, would mean direct blame on Democrat policies and connections, and a landslide defeat of their Savior.)

    If voters believe that "taxing the rich" will undo the current economic failure, they are either uneducated, ignorant, or simply don't care because their leftist policies are a faith-based religion where equality trumps all other freedoms - a principle on which America had never been founded.

    But most people have no idea what I just wrote because of the sorry state of today's media. I'm truly astounded. And Olbermann is at the top of that pile of media refuse.

    "I've never gooten a job from a poor person before"

    I don't know what you are characterizing as "poor", but I think it would probably astonish you to find out how many middle class people with median incomes employ others, often at the same or higher slaeries than they make themselves. No LucasCop, all employers are not rich!

    You are mischaracterizing how half of America feels about "successful" people. Nobody "villifies" them! Asking them to give back a modicum quantity of their success to the society that helped to make them successful is not s coherent definition of 'villification'. All Obama is suggesting is returning the marginal tax rates to what they were the last time the budget was balanced.

    You are correct that the downward trajectory of the stock market had nothing to do withh tax rates, but that certainly doesn't explain why McCain has chosen to make this race primarily about taxation (that is, when he isn't busy throwing mud).

    You can continue to comfort yourself all you want with the false belief that most people don't have your breathtaking insight if you choose, but the only one you will be fooling is yourself.

    That's right. Not all employers are rich. In fact, many are just making it, and many more will undergo further burden as the tax rates are increased on larger businesses upon which they depend for goods and services at prices that allow them to maintain a profit.

    But for the Leftist, that does not matter. What matters is that the rich are not being "asked" (I love that term *sarcasm*) to provide enough to society. Less than 5% of all workers/institutions pay more than half of the nation's taxes. How much more should we "ask" of them?

    Washington does not have a revenue problem. They have a spending problem. Prove to me that a Democratically-controlled House, Senate, and Executive Branch will actually decrease spending, and I will vote for them. Unfortunately, since history is not on their side (New Deal, Great Society, unchecked spending during Reagan), my bet is for a slower economic recovery and increased tax burdens for all in the near term.

    The greatest sin of the Bush administration and the Republican-controlled Congress is not Iraq, the Patriot Act, the mortgage crisis, or Katrina. I "love" that one too. It's their choice to increase spending like a drunken sailor believing their power of Congress would be secured because of it.

    LucasCop, the fatal flaw in your argument is your apparent assumption that rich people got that way all by themselves without help from the society they are being asked to return a small portion of their success to.....and that is a fundamentally incorrect assumption.

    While you recognize SOME of the failures of the Bush administration, you seem to ignor the unfortunate reality that judgemnt is being rendereed based on the the final results we are seeing now. This is the way such judgements are made throughout our society. While you maintain that it wasn't the conservative philosophy that caused this collective disaster, you seem unable to accept that such a judgement is being made based on your party's choice (twice in a row) of someone you now deem incompetent.

    Sorry, but Bush was the captain of this ship that is now sinking, and his crew, the republicans, failed to take the wheel away from him before he hit the iceberg.....and only NOW do you lament the fact that he should have never been given the wheel in the first place.

    Sorry, but I don't want the NEW ship captained by another conservative, and I suspect the American people don't either!

    I don't understand most of the mumbo jumbo you were saying mainly because of your clever way of putting words in my mouth.

    What I do know is that based on our last tax return, I found that my wife and I actually fall under that 5% that you claim possesses a "unique" responsibility to society. It was not due to privilege, connections, or a rigged system. (In other words, classical liberal excuses.)

    No. I got there through diligence, good grades, wholesome values, and a strong work ethic. The cost to my fellow taxpayers for my success had little to no bearing. (I attended Catholic school my whole life. And my family wasn't rich. Growing up, we literally never left my home state of Minnesota for vacations, so my parents sacrificed.)

    Not accounting for the excessive cost of living here and the ridiculously expensive cost of state taxes in California, I'm classified under a separate status by our Leftist brethren simply because I'm designated a special debtor to the rest of society.

    I sure don't feel rich. But people like you feel it is your duty to tell me that I am.

    Thanks. But no thanks.

    Well good for you SoCal, but don't forget thatt there are millions of hard working, highly educated individuals in this country who didn't fall under that 5%. I grow tired of the insinuation that anyone who isn't wealthy is somehow lazy or dumb.

    No one, least of all, me, has called you "rich", but we do believe that your status should impell you to feel obligated to give back just a little bit more of your hard earned bounty to the same society that made it possible for you to exceed the median income by moe than a factor of 5. I make no apology for agreeing that the top 5% should feel such a civic responsibilty.

    The implication that you are somehow being treated unfairly because you have attained a certain financial status is absurd, and quite frankly borders on being unpatriotic, considering the fact that we are running record deficits created mainly by the party you apparently support. The fact that so many in your party feel no personal obligation to help deal with this problem is a symptom of the problem that has gotten us into the mess we now find ourselves in.

    It is rather unbelievable that we have a political party that has come to delude itsself into believing that paying taxes has somehow become unpatriotic. We actually have 2 candidates out there making such statements. If it were not so pathetic, it would be funny. I don't know when and where selfishness and greed became a virtue, but it definitely happened within my lifetime.

    America was not built with the values you seem to believe in. Americans used to take pride in paying their fair of taxes, which has ALWAYS been based on a graduated system in which those who benifitted the most also gave back the most. This never prevented anyone from achieving success nor did it ever take away from their success in any way. America was built into the great country it became by hard working Americans who actually produced something of value to ourselves and the world. Most of them never got wealthy doing it, but many did, and higher taxes were never an impediment for those who did.

    Finally, I don't have a clue what you were talking about by 'puttiing words in your mouth'?

    Like I said, it takes a fervent faith in the secular religion of leftist politics to believe I border on being un-American.

    I feel I'm being vilified.

    Thanks for proving my point.

    Where in any of my ideas do you see "secular"? I'm actually a Methodist, and my religion always taught me among other things, that "I am my brothers keeper", as well as many other lessons about th virtue of taking care of my fellow human beings. Almost NOTHING I see in today's republican politics conforms to Biblical teachings as I understand them.

    As for the "leftist" label, that is only your perrception. My ideology used to be considered quite centrist before this country lost it's way with uncontrolled greed.

    Keep digging.

    Run out of labels?

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